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PRC 2019 08 27 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 27. 2019 Chairman Boettcher called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Boettcher, Meredith Petouvis, Joe Scanlon, Karl Tsuchiya, Sandy Sweetser, and Haley Pemrick MEMBERS ABSENT: Matt Kutz STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Audrey Swantz, Recreation Supervisor PUBLIC PRESENT: Joseph and Brea Shamla 1691 Mayapple Pass Thy and Mitchell Tan 1711 Mayapple Pass APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Boettcher: Looking at approval of the agenda. Any additions or deletions at this time? Petouvis: I have a couple sort of pull out’s that I’d like to do to highlight. They’re not, I think they’re kind of embedded within the agenda as it is but I’d like to pull them out as things that we’re sure to discuss. The first would probably be a beginner to our CIP discussion and that would be a specific discussion around the Arboretum trail. Boettcher: Okay. Petouvis: Especially since we have new members and members who weren’t here at the, in 2015 I think it was when it was initially decided upon and we’ve had some fairly beyond price increases and changes to the scope of the project so I think it would be good to. Boettcher: Do you want to read that as 2. G-2(a)? Petouvis: Yeah that probably makes sense. Boettcher: Okay. And then the recommendation that’s currently at 2(b)? Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Petouvis: Yeah. That makes sense to me if it does to everybody else. And then the other probably falls within the discussion on possible future park and recreation improvements I think, if that makes, somewhere around Lake Ann. Discussing that. Boettcher: Under I(2)? Petouvis: Yes. Boettcher: I(2) Okay. Petouvis: Yeah. That discussion would be just following through on the specific directive we received I think twice that I’ve heard from Mayor Ryan to think outside the box and come up as a commission with possible vision for the use of Lake Ann, and I know the feasibility study is underway but I think since we’ve been given that directive multiple times it’s time that we just have a discussion and a brainstorming session as a group so. That’s what I have to add. Boettcher: And this would be some of the items when we met with council in April and the Mayor challenged us to think outside the box. I was thinking that was initially under K(1) but maybe not. It would probably work better under I(2). Petouvis: Yeah the bond referendum is K(1) so I think you’re right, I(2) makes sense. Boettcher: Okay, I(2). Okay. nd Petouvis: And yes she brought it up again at the July 22 City Council meeting so I think it’s time. Boettcher: Yeah it is. We would have done it last month but we weren’t here. Any other additions, deletions at this time? Todd, staff have anything? Okay motion to approve the agenda as amended. Tsuchiya: So moved. Boettcher: Second? Petouvis: Second. Tsuchiya moved, Petouvis seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the agenda with the amendments outlined by Commissioner Petouvis. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS. 2 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Anything on the docket? Hoffman: Just would like to let everybody know that, you going to talk about the Red Birds? Ruegemer: I was just looking, yeah. Hoffman: Jerry take it over. Boettcher: I saw they won. Ruegemer: Thank you. Good evening everybody. Just want to let, Todd and I wanted to let everybody know that the Red Birds did win their second playoff game. They have a playoff th game coming up here Friday, August 30 at 7:30. They’ll be playing Blaine in Dassel so if anybody would like to attend please feel free to and so coming into this weekend it will be another state champion and hopefully it’s the Red Birds so hopefully they’re on the right path right now so thanks everybody. Boettcher: I was reading the article about that Jerry and it talked about the one player that did the walk off in the ninth inning, that he was, he was going to leave the team. He was being asked to leave. Can you dive into that? It was a little bit confusing trying to read it. Ruegemer: Yeah I think basically kind of the shorten version of that is that there was a protest of his eligibility. They were questioning, other teams in the league were questioning his status, that he was not a legal player within the playing radius I guess of what the Chanhassen Red Birds can play it so it went to the River Valley Board and ultimately they ruled in favor of the Red Birds and he was reinstated to play. Boettcher: So how would he have been out of the realm of the? Ruegemer: I think he was outside, some people thought he was outside the legal borders that they can draw players from. Boettcher: Oh okay. Ruegemer: But it was proven that he was just fine. Boettcher: Okay, yeah because I read that and I was a little confused and I thought well it’s good they had him in the ninth inning. Ruegemer: He’s a really good player. Boettcher: Made all the difference, one to nothing. Good. Anything else? If not let’s move onto visitor presentations. 3 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Boettcher: I see some people in the audience. If you would step up to the podium and start for the record with your name and address please. Joseph Shamla: Joseph Shamla, 1691 Mayapple Pass. Pioneer Pass subdivision. Boettcher: It was Joseph? Joseph Shamla: Yes. Boettcher: Okay thank you. Joseph Shamla: So I’m here to request that Pioneer Pass be considered for an ice rink. Basically in, late in 2018 the neighborhood requested an ice rink. Due to the timing and how late it was we were unable to get anything figured out between the City and the neighborhood but I would say Pioneer Pass is one of the most utilized parks in this city. Any summer day if you’re out and about please stop by and take a look at it. Constantly traffic. You come to January, February it’s a ghost town. There’s nothing to do out there so originally as part of the Pioneer Pass plan it had a sledding hill. Due to constraints with the site and how it was developed the sledding hill never did get established so I guess something that would be a smaller footprint and fit within the park that we have would be an ice rink so I guess I sent out a petition to my neighborhood just to see how many people would be interested. Within the last 3 weeks we got 112 signatures on it so there’s definitely an interest and now I see on the agenda is under New Business number one is ice skating rink locations. I don’t know what is recommended because I don’t have the packet but I’m hoping that we are part of those recommendations. Any questions? Boettcher: Any questions for Joseph? Tsuchiya: Are you requesting, do you delineate your care between a hockey rink versus a pleasure rink? Joseph Shamla: I mean I’d be fine with anything to start especially just to get kind of something to see how much demand there is. I think you’re going to see a lot of people using it so I think it’s going to show that maybe it does deserve hockey rink status but for the first year just to kind of get a feel maybe it doesn’t. Tsuchiya: That’s what I was wondering just because I know with a hockey rink there’s a large initial investment with you know paving an area. Putting up boards and such. Not to mention space requirement so something to look at and just consider. Joseph Shamla: Okay. 4 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Sweetser: Just as an FYI are you familiar with, can you hear me? That there is Bandimere. I think you guys, I just pulled up on MapQuest just to see exactly where you were, that Bandimere does have those opportunities. As well as the Rec Center. Joseph Shamla: Well aware of that. Bandimere is way under utilized. The neighborhood wants to gather somewhere close. I’m sure as you’re aware the closer you are to a park the more you’re going to use it. Bandimere is a great park. It’s huge but it doesn’t get used unfortunately. So if my daughter sees her friends there she can go down to the park and skate. She’s not, I’m not going to take her by Bandimere to see if any of her friends are there so it’s a neighborhood park’s different than a regional park I guess. That’s why we’re hoping we can get it closer to home. Boettcher: Any other questions? Alright well thank you. We’ll take it in. We do have a list right now and it isn’t included but we will take it in consideration you know because we have to, we’re talking about our CIP. Our money that we’re spending the next 5 years so if we can fit something in there. We can’t make promises though that’s the problem right now but we do have it noted in the record. We’ll ask staff to give us any information. Additional as far as cost you know before games, pleasure, what’s the difference. That type of thing and because we have to have someone out there. It’s an additional cost too for flooding and everything else for staff. Todd you have something? Hoffman: Yes some good questions to I guess answer between Mr. Shamla and the commission are, if it’s just a sheet of ice that’s one thing. If you want a warming house and staffing for that warming house that’s another thing. We’ve done this in the past so neighborhood parks traditionally had skating rinks so if you think back to the 70’s there really wasn’t indoor ice. Just about every neighborhood park in the metropolitan area and the outstate area had a hockey rink, lights and warming house. That was just the model. That model changed dramatically when indoor ice became available. Neighborhood rinks slowly disappeared. We probably flooded close to a dozen neighborhood rinks at some time. Ruegemer: Maybe more. Hoffman: And so they were all over. All over the neighborhood parks. The last one, well one of the last ones to be taken out, Chanhassen Hills actually the commission put a light up so they put a light up for the neighborhood rink. It was just a flat sheet of ice. Put the warming house out there. The neighborhood was originally excited about it and then use just waned so it all went away so we really, other than Roundhouse and, which has the round house there and then North Lotus, those are only the two kind of pseudo neighborhood parks that would have an ice rink anymore when we used to have a dozen so this would be reinventing that old model. But if they just want a sheet of ice, you could flood the aggregate ballfield and just leave it at that and see if people utilize it and go from there. That’s pretty easy. If you want a warming house and 5 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 attendants that would take a budget amendment for the 2020 budget and so that would be a different thing so I guess that would be a good conversation to have. Boettcher: Okay thank you Todd. Joseph Shamla: Can I add one, I mean so I see there’s a recommendation. So does that mean somebody has determined that certain parks have been chosen for the? Boettcher: Yeah as part of our CIP discussion staff makes a determination of what’s out there. What the current budget is. That type of thing so we can make a decision like I said for the next 5 years where our money is going so. Joseph Shamla: Will that be decided tonight then? Boettcher: Parts of it will be. Here’s the list of the rinks and the costs are on the back side of that. Hoffman: Those are available online too. Joseph Shamla: Okay. Petouvis: Question for you Todd. The ballfield that is potentially the site of a rink, a flat surface rink, is that a high quality grass ballfield? Hoffman: So we would flood the infield, then you wouldn’t kill the grass. Petouvis: Okay I just ask because I know at Roundhouse it is not the same grass underneath what’s flooded as. Hoffman: No it dies… Petouvis: Yeah, it’s pretty hard on the feet in the summertime so I don’t think we’d want to ruin anything that’s actually quality turf. Would your neighborhood be satisfied with a sheet of ice without a warming house? Joseph Shamla: I think that’d be a great first step. The one thing with the warming house is everybody’s so close there if you get cold you can walk home so I don’t see the warming house as being like oh we really need a warming house and we need an attendant. Petouvis: Okay. 6 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Joseph Shamla: I don’t see that as being like that’s something that, you know maybe over time if you see wow there’s 50 kids out there every day, well maybe then it’s worth it but to begin with I think start slowly and see how many people use it. Petouvis: Okay. Todd perhaps for our next meeting could we have just an idea of figures for budget for sheet of ice. Hoffman: Yep. So it would, we’d give you an allocation of hours and so it would basically take an allocation of hours away from other duties that we do and they would procure them to this. They’re already in the budget so you already have staffing and overtime in the budget. We would just tell you how many hours it would take to maintain it. Flood it. Maintain it for a season and then what would go away to make that happen. Petouvis: Okay that would be very valuable information as we work on an extremely tight budget so every penny is accounted for so. Hoffman: Joe used to work for the City. He knows. Petouvis: He knows so. So this is not news to you so I think helping to further the discussion would be good. Boettcher: Alright. Joseph Shamla: Can you just explain what will be discussed tonight of number 1? I’m not sure if I should stick around to listen or if it’s going to be helpful. Hoffman: So the recommendation tonight would be for the same rinks that we had last year so annually they approve the rink program and that’s what the recommendation will be tonight is the same rink program that we had last year. The addition of Bandimere is a newer location so yeah it sees some of the lower use now but we’re, as a new location we’re hoping that builds over time. Very nice facility. And it was in the master plan so one thing about master park master plans is they’re intentional. They’re planned early on in the process and when something’s included or not included that’s intentional and so when you come back you should also, if this is a permanent facility then you’ll have to change that master plan and that’s another conversation. Public doesn’t like to be surprised. If you put something out there that’s not in the master plan there might be people that say hey, we don’t like that. Why did you put that out here? We were at the master plan meeting 4 years ago. 8 years ago. It wasn’t included so what’s going on and so other people may not like what you do. They might like the peace and solitude in the park. You know potentially neighbors that live very close and so there’s always that conversation that you want to make sure that you have as well. Petouvis: And then I would imagine maintaining a good balance and distribution of locations of our rinks has been important in site selection which we choose to maintain year after year. 7 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Hoffman: Yep, the model has just really changed to make it the most successful you want a warming house. You want hockey and you want open skate and they’re going to be in traditionally not as many locations and so we used to flood up to 18 rinks. 20 rinks. 22 rinks. Now we flood far fewer just because of the change in the ice skating model. Joseph Shamla: Can I add one more thing? Boettcher: Yeah. Joseph Shamla: I think like I completely get there was 12 and now there’s less. I think it all depends on the neighborhood. Our neighborhood has a lot of kids this age. They want to get out on the ice. In 10 years from now, 15 years from now, our neighborhood may not be the right place for it so it’s, I mean when we moved in 8 years ago our kids were too small to use one. I was not here until now because nobody was going to use it. So it’s kind of a cyclical thing. Like now it might be time to have one at this park. 10 years from now some other park will want one and we won’t need one so it’s kind of got to look at the ages of the kids to see how much use you’re going to get too. Boettcher: Right. Joseph Shamla: And then the nice part about our’s is we’ve got a ton of townhomes around us so I’d say traditionally there’s people that own townhomes, maybe younger families or older families. You know starter homes or they don’t want a single family house anymore so it should keep the younger generation wanting to use the ice rink so. Food for thought. Hoffman: Yep agreed. Joseph Shamla: Thank you. You want to Thy? Thy Tan: Just now the kids play on by the street, on side of street. The snow because the park is. Boettcher: Go ahead and, if you want to make a statement please. Give your name and address please. Thy Tan: Alright, my name’s Thy Tan. Address is 1711 Mayapple Pass. I live close by to the park there. But what he’s trying to say is pretty much every winter time it’s, a lot of kids play with the snow by the side of the street. It’s so dangerous. They just try to slide out there and stuff like that because the park is no ice rink and no sledding hills or anything so all they do is they get bored in winter times and a lot of kids come out and just play by the side of the street there and the cars drive by there and then they slide and it just the side of the street. So dangerous you know that one of these day going to get hit so that’s why is to have this ice rink 8 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 more at the park so they can just go to the park and play there and stuff like that more safe than by the street there. Side of street. Boettcher: Thank you. Anyone else visitor presentation? Alright. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Boettcher: Anyone have any changes, additions, deletions? Sandy. Sweetser: The only I noticed was. Boettcher: They cross you up again? Sweetser: I think so. I don’t know if it was myself and Haley or myself and Meredith. Petouvis: It was me. Sweetser: Yeah there just a couple notes that said Sandy Sweetser that should have been Meredith so we’re going to just try to talk more into the camera and to the microphone so, but it was nothing critical. Petouvis: Sandy just doesn’t want references to sewage associated to her name so. Sweetser: But it was nothing critical that needs to be changed. I would just make that note. Boettcher: Alright. We can handle that Hoffman: Six months from now Nann will have it down. New voices. She’ll get it. Boettcher: So with no changes to the Minutes can I get a motion to approve? Tsuchiya: So moved. Boettcher: Second? Petouvis: Second. Tsuchiya moved, Petouvis seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated June 25, 2019 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. 2019-2020 ICE SKATING RINK LOCATION RECOMMENDATION. 9 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Onto new business. Number G-1. 2019-2020 ice skating rink location recommendations. Jerry looks like this is your’s. Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Boettcher. Good evening commissioners. Just wanted to go through the 2019-2020 ice rink location recommendations. I think we have it on the table now as to what we’re going to be recommending for approval tonight. Basically kind of to summarize that. The locations and go with corresponding rinks, pleasure rinks and hockey rinks are identical to last year’s locations. Hours of operation during the days. Weekdays. The weekends. Holidays and school days out. Those days and times are located with a corresponding locations with that so the locations are the Chanhassen Recreation Center, North Lotus Lake Park, City Center, Bandimere Park, and Roundhouse Park with that so, that’s what staff is recommending for approval at this point. To kind of give, there’s on the second page of that there’s a background of kind of the 2018-2019 recorded participants per location for that. Kind of has a breakdown of the temporary and seasonal wages of last year. Over $19,000 for that. The warming house rentals for the locations that need portable warming houses and then the rink maintenance cost associated with overtime, flooding, maintaining those rinks throughout the days that we were open during that, during the season so if you kind of look to last year. We were open 67 days total and closed a total of 19 days for a variety of reasons so as part of the continuous discussion staff is recommending that we change our temperature for closing. Warming houses that be adjusted from negative 15 below to negative 20 below which seems kind of crazy but there is a desire to keep those rinks open during those temperatures so it is staff’s recommendation that we change that procedure and then we kind of fit that into our operation for the upcoming season. Boettcher: Do you know how much that change would have affected last year? 3 days? 2 days? 4 days? Ruegemer: I’d say probably more than that because we had you know January was relatively tame but once we got into February there was large amounts of snow and cold and then it went into March as well but you know I would imagine that would have been probably at least 4 to 5, 6 days of that. Boettcher: Okay. Ruegemer: Snow was probably the bigger contributing factor this year with the closures. Pemrick: What are the safety concerns for frostbite time with that change because that makes we nervous? Ruegemer: Yep. You know it’s, you know there is the desire for that. There is warming houses and people can choose not to go out or come in when they get cold so kids are hearty. 10 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Sweetser: Jerry I have a, kind of a question just about, I’m not a skater. I’m not familiar with, I’m familiar with most of these but Roundhouse I’m not. And I know for a lot of people it looks like, that aren’t familiar with it, that was one of the questions I had was, especially in light of some of the other discussion tonight. What is at that location? There is a warming house there then? Ruegemer: There is a round house building. Sweetser: So that is. Hoffman: It’s used as a warming house. Sweetser: So it’s permanent. It’s not a rental then. Ruegemer: It’s an old water tower. Sweetser: It’s not costing us money to have that there then? Just the staffing. Ruegemer: Staffing and there is certainly is utility costs associated with keeping that going t throughout the course of the year but right. Sweetser: Just those numbers are pretty low compared to other, however I understand the discussion of location. Of where that is so. Ruegemer: And that has more limited hours than any of the other locations because of lighting and attendance numbers so that has I guess abbreviated hours versus the other locations. Sweetser: Got ya. Ruegemer: That will dictate then the lower participation numbers. Petouvis: And it is also solely a pleasure rink so no boards or anything like that which has. Hoffman: It’s important to note these numbers are just a snapshot. It’s only when the attendants are there. It’s not when attendants are not there so they’re just a snapshot. Petouvis: Yeah, you’d be surprised how many people are out in the dark on, I know because we live there and I drive by there every time I go home so lots of dark skaters. Sweetser: Okay, fair enough. 11 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Alright any other discussion? Jerry thank you very much for the numbers and the update. Any other questions or discussion? If not anyone would want to put it to the question. We have the proposed motion in front of us. Tsuchiya: I guess I’m wondering given the discussion earlier, Todd maybe you weigh in on this, with Meredith’s request for insight into you know shifting hours as you explained. If we pass the motion now does that pre-empt any change if we were to entertain a Pioneer Ridge. Hoffman: No, not at all. Other representatives of the neighborhood have been coming and asking and so I don’t think it’s a bad trial and so you would want to have some communication. The City can put out some communication that this is a trial situation. We’re just going to put that rink down there. We’ll explain what it’s going to cost to you. You can make a motion to approve that next month at your meeting and then see how it works after that. See what the feedback is. Beyond that if you see enough use that you want to have a warming house then you just add that in in the following year. You know be aware that this will then bring back other neighborhoods. It will say hey they got their neighborhood skating rink back. Maybe we should get our neighborhood skating rink back so it might spur that kind of activity or that conversation so. Tsuchiya: Well if there’s the demand and the interest then. Hoffman: And the money. Tsuchiya: And the money of course. There’s always two sides to the coin but yes, if there’s demand then we can maybe make supply. Petouvis: In the interest of informed decision making and the absence of a warming house should we just choose to flood an area and leave no amenities besides the ice, how would we track usership? How would we get a handle on how many people are using it? Hoffman: That’s a great job for a park board to drive by on Saturday afternoon. Staff and the park commission would keep track of that. Petouvis: Okay. I kind of thought that would be the answer. Boettcher: See what happens when you ask? Tsuchiya: I think she just volunteered. Boettcher: Any other discussion? Hearing none, anyone want to make a motion? No motion? Sweetser: No. 12 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Petouvis: I will move that the commission follow staff recommendation on the 2019-20 ice skating rink locations to be held at the Chan Rec Center, North Lotus, City Center, Bandimere and Roundhouse Parks as outlined in the detailed documents. Hoffman: And you can add the. Boettcher: You want to add the warming house to the? Hoffman: Well you can add that. We’re going to bring back the numbers for next month. Petouvis: Oh for. Hoffman: Yep. For Pioneer Pass. Petouvis: Oh yes and please add that we would like budget numbers for the potential Pioneer Pass flooded area. Sweetser: Temperature adjustment does that need to be. Petouvis: Oh good grief guys. I mean I took, alright. Boettcher: Now this is Sandy’s. Hoffman: What was your question? Tsuchiya: Make sure that the temperature adjustments are included in your motion. Petouvis: Yes. Boettcher: 15 below to 20 below. Sweetser: Should we start over? Hoffman: No. Petouvis: Goodness gracious. Alright, but it says staff recommends. That’s what got me all messed up so I’m just going to read the proposed motion and let it fly from there. And I will add about the Pioneer Pass. Okay. Staff recommends that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that the following ice skating rink locations and warming house hours be maintained for the 2019-20 season. Staff also recommends that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that the warming house closing temperature be adjusted from negative 15 degrees to negative 20 degrees. And the Park and Rec Commission also recommends that the Park and Rec Department come back at the next meeting with 13 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 budgetary numbers for the possible addition of a flooded rink at Pioneer Pass. And I’m never doing a motion again. Hoffman: Why not it was perfect. Tsuchiya: I’ll second that. Boettcher: After all that we do have a motion and a second. Petouvis moved, Tsuchiya seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that the attached ice skating rink locations and warming house hours be maintained for the 2019-20 season, that the warming house closing temperature be adjusted from negative 15 degrees to negative 20 degrees, and that the Park and Rec Department come back at the next meeting with budgetary numbers for the possible addition of a flooded rink at Pioneer Pass. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Boettcher: Motion is unanimous and carried so next month we’ll look at some budget numbers. Thank you. Thanks for showing up Joseph. RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL 2020-2024 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Boettcher: So item G-2(a), a change to the agenda as recommended by Commissioner Petouvis. Discussion on Arboretum trail. And this is an issue mainly because of the change in the dollar amount which from what we’ve seen lately it has doubled and causing some discern among many people. Sweetser: Among the person to your right. Boettcher: So as the amender. Petouvis: As the amender shall I kick it off again? Boettcher: Would you please convene discussion. Petouvis: So when I joined the park and rec commission for the people who joined after I did, we were given, Karl and I the budget documents. The current 2017 through 21 budget documents and within there the Arboretum trail and Highway 41 underpass cost share, cost share between the County, the City and the Arboretum, our portion was listed in the budget as $140,000. And then last year based on increased knowledge of what the project would actually entail the figure went from $140,000 to $640,000ish and now with again more detailed knowledge of this project the current estimate of our cost share, which is 25 percent of the 14 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 remaining cost outlay after roughly $1 million dollar federal grant is our current share, 25 percent is $1.2 million. That’s just the current estimate so the reason I bring it up for you know sort of a more detailed discussion within the CIP discussion is that, that’s an awful lot of budgetary change within 2 years. It’s a valuable project. Of any commissioner at the table I can walk to that trail so it has, so just to give credence to my concerns I’m the one who would use it the most of anybody sitting here and I see the value but perhaps the discussion since Jim you were here initially but none of the rest of us were here to actually discuss before we, I assume before contracts were entered into. I just thought it would be helpful to get some more of the background and get everyone up to speed and on the same page knowing what the project is. What it entails as far as construction because it seems like it entails kind of a heck of a lot at this point and just so that we, we have a full understanding because $140,000 would not have emptied the park dedication fund back in 2015 when this was decided. $1.2 million comes extraordinarily close to emptying our current park fund so it seems like sort of a different ballgame. And we do have, there are contracts. There are a lot of reasons to be in favor of this but we’re not locked in. We can you know, and I’m sure Todd will detail the reasons why we would not want to but we do have flexibility as far as I understand to say hey, this is getting a little out of control folks or whatever we want to say. I just want to open it up. I’ll stop talking and let us get educated on what the project is and where it stands so. Boettcher: Sandy you had something? Sweetser: Well I was just going to say do we have details of these changes? What 120 went to 640. What was causing some of that? Hoffman: I can talk over that, yeah. Sweetser: That’d be great. Boettcher: I just real quick, because I see two sides. Not differing sides but I’m also on Carver County Park Commission and these same numbers we’ve been discussing there for 4 years and Todd is very familiar. Knows Marty Walsh very well. The Carver County Parks Director and he likes to, he has his own section each meeting. He goes through all the staff, all the updates so it was honestly every 3 to 4 months a change in the number and I don’t even try to keep track of it. After the first 3 or 4 I just knew, and it’s not anyone’s fault as such. I mean there are so many things. The one thing is the, was it 2014 when the trail down here. Hoffman: Fox Woods? Boettcher: Yeah the landslide. I mean that thing went from, I think it’s, is it $2.8 or $3.2 million? Hoffman: Something like that. 15 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: And it started out at one, I want to say $1.1 and that was in 2015. Late 2015 so you can see there in about a 3 to 3 ½ year period it did a 200, 270 percent increase. I mean it’s one of those if you snooze you lose type of things. If you can use that as a cheap analogy but you know you wait for something like this, it’s like an estimate on your house. You want to add that four season porch. You want to add that deck. You want to do whatever and you get an estimate this year and 3 years later okay now I’ve got the money and all of a sudden it went from $200,000 to $320,000. What happened you know so Commissioner Petouvis is right. I mean it is a shock. It’s definitely is sticker shock especially when we look at our numbers which we will in just a few minutes. At the end of this year we’re going to have about $1.4 in the bank and we’re going to spend about $1.375 next year. That’s if nothing changes so if it gets any tighter than that we have bake sale. We do whatever. It is just that critical but again it’s something that it is a project that we need. I think we do need to do. If it isn’t done, but again I have the same concerns that Commissioner Petouvis does. When do you say enough is enough? You know if we wait 2 months is it going to go up again but anyone else? If I would I’ll ask, if anyone else has any comments and then Todd if you would give us a little bit of the background that Meredith is requesting. Tsuchiya: I’ve got, you know your last comment Jim. I’m questioning you know if we wait too long how much is it going to go up? How long until they actually start this is you know because we have no control over the project. We’re just paying into it so. Boettcher: The latest thing from Carver County, the construction was supposed to start this fall. Tsuchiya: Okay. Boettcher: Something I think has delayed that again. Something in the Arboretum with the boardwalk or. Hoffman: Yeah State permitting and so the last I heard they were hoping to bid it in late September. Tsuchiya: I’m just you know, they bid it. Is that locked in? Hoffman: No. So our agreement with the County has a variety of statements…so you can decide and the $1.2 is my number. Their current number is a million fifty and so that’s their current number but it’s not been updated based on all these recent requests by the State for additional permitting. Additional design. Additional protections for the environment. All sorts of additional things that are coming into play. Very challenging. Very complicated project and I will talk about that a little bit but that’s the current. They have to bid it this fall for landscape, for that total funding to be locked in. Tsuchiya: That’s what I remember some deadline about that, okay. 16 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Joe or Haley you have any? Pemrick: I rather hear more details just in case they’re answered. In case… Boettcher: Okay Todd if you want to take it away. Hoffman: I want to thank you commissioners. I’ll be as brief as I can. Thanks Jerry. So $140,000 estimate, that’s a line on a map and they calculate a per lineal foot cost. They say okay we’ve got this much trail. Times X amount per foot. That’s how that gets started. Then somebody says oh but are we going to let people cross at grade at Highway 41 or do we want an underpass? Oh well we would prefer an underpass. And then you start designing an underpass and that’s just a rough number. Underpass. X amount of money. This much trail. That bumps up to $600,000. Everybody says wow that’s a, you know now we’re in real money. $600,000- $640,000. Then you get to the detailed design and you start clicking off the years and so the first $640,000 that was estimated 3 years ago when construction costs were you know on a project this size probably a half a million dollars less because you’re in 3 years old. Your numbers are 3 years old. Construction costs continue to rise. The design gets more finite. You start to actually understand the realities and I can tell you after doing this for over 30 years everybody always wants to give you the best information which is the cheapest number. That’s what they want to give you. There’s like we want to give you the most optimistic number because we know you’re a government agency. We’re trying to be optimistic. We’re trying to design this thing as tight as we can and then they get into the realities of the project and oh my gosh. We’ve got to twist this tunnel because we’ve got gas lines in here and we’ve got a much more elaborate system. It’s in your packet. You can see how you get down into the box culvert with these sheet pilings and so, I should switch to this camera while we’re up there. So these are steel sheet pilings with a concrete top and this is coming out of the trail heading west to the Arboretum. And these things become very tall. That’s looking at going into the box culvert and so costs just get more and more refined. Then the permitting starts. All of the review. All the wetland management. Is it a boardwalk? Is it not a boardwalk? Boardwalks are a lot more expensive and so all these details come in an I’m still calling both Marty and the gentleman over at SRF about weekly and there is no additional information at this time. So the last time we met as a group, we’ve been meeting quarterly at the Arboretum. The engineer’s estimate was $4,894,000. And then you added on wetland credits, cultural resource work, engineering plans and inspection and your total went to $5,294,200. Less federal funds which is a million ten. 3840. Gets down to the cost share of $4,190,360. And then, so that was, that’s divvied up by the City, the Arboretum, Carver County. And so we’re a partner to this project which is the only way it could get done. If anyone of these agencies was doing this alone, and the City was that agency just before the County took it over. We applied for that federal grant. We were like 40 points short and it just didn’t look like we’d gain those extra 40 points. The way to do that is to move up the food chain. We knew if the County was the applicant for the grant that that would move it up the food chain. They would secure the grant. They would do the project. We were fortunate enough that it was a regional section of trail so the County would do that. County’s like yeah, we’ll do it. They really weren’t in the trail business if you think back. The County just was not in the trail business but 17 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Chanhassen, Chaska we were building trails. Even in county road ditches. Even in state highways. We were the ones in the trail business. We were making trails happen in our community so we were happy to have the County as a partner. They got the grant money. I can tell you when we got, the grant was awarded everybody thought the million one sounded like a huge number. Doesn’t sound so huge anymore based on the current budget of the project but it’s still some significant cash to put back in. The other thing is the Arboretum would not typically get into this kind of a deal. And so to have the Arboretum at the table for a million four, right now the number. So the number splits is a $1,047,590. That’s for Chanhassen. $1,047,590 for the University. And Carver County $2,095,180 and so those are the current estimated cost splits. And so for the Arboretum to be at the table with that kind of cash is a significant coup for this project. The other thing is typically they would charge users, local governments for the right-of- way where their trails, where trails go in their property. They’re like you want a city regional trail through here, you’re going to pay us for that property and they have charged everybody around that facility for right-of-way to build a trail which they use. Their patrons use. Doesn’t matter. That was their policy. They’ve exempted this project from that. They’ve exempted that. They’re not going to charge you for the right-of-way. They’re going to pay you the million. They’re going to pay their full cost, share which is not coming out of downtown. It’s coming out of the facility out here and then they’re going to maintain their section of trail. So once we hit the Arboretum they’re going to maintain it and they’re going to maintain their section of trail. They’re going to plow it. They’re going to maintain it. They’re going to maintain it into the future. That’s a huge bonus for this project and so the project can be bid hopefully in September. Marty has been juggling the plates on this thing to even get it to a bid and so it’s your option once it’s bid. You don’t know where the costs are going to come in. Right now the City Council has signed a joint powers agreement. It’s in your packet and it says we’re a party to this process. We love this trail project. We want this trail project because the County doesn’t want to get involved with expending all their time and money without the support of the City so you’ve signed a resolution supporting the Trunk Highway 5 Regional Trail Master Plan. This was back in February, 2018 whereas Carver County is implementing a trail master plan. Proposed a regional trail consistent whereas proposed regional trail is consistent with the City’s plan. Now therefore be it resolved the City of Chanhassen City Council supports the Trunk Highway 5 Regional Trail Master Plan. Passed and adopted this day so that is in addition to the joint powers agreement that you have. You’ve made that recommendation. You made a recommendation to the council. You said we as the park commission supports this project. We support you moving forward with it. We support you signing that joint powers agreement. The council took that recommendation. That was back in 2018 and they said yep, we’re going to do this. They signed a joint powers agreement. The County said alright. We have all our partners. We have a joint powers agreement with the Arboretum. With the City of Chanhassen. We’re moving forward and that’s where we’re at today. The bids come in and you don’t want to spend the $1.2 million you can make that recommendation to the council that you don’t want to spend that. It’s their decision if they want to spend it or not. So the balance of the park fund, you know the park fund will probably generate another $18 to $20 million dollars over it’s life span. This is one of the last 3 or 4 segments of comprehensive trail to build in our community. You know what, the most expensive ones are last and it’s just the way it works out and so you know you have a lot of, you 18 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 have an option. You can always walk away. If you walk away this project will not, probably not come back for 15-20 years or longer. Petouvis: Todd can you speak to, I know we see on the map where the trail is. Can you speak more to the value of making that connection? Hoffman: Oh sure. Petouvis: And what that accomplishes. Hoffman: Oh sure yeah. So Life Time Fitness is also a partner of this project. They’re going to give their right-of-way up because it goes onto this property in certain places so this is a pretty significant section of trail. It starts at Century Boulevard which is at the Life Time entrance and then heads all the way in front of Life Time Fitness. Dives underneath Highway 41 at that location. The box culvert and the underpass will be engineered so when 41 is upgraded to the south and lowered that this fits in that plan and so this shoots underneath Highway 41 at that location. It goes up and behind the big sign that the Arboretum, that big beautiful sign, this was not easy for the Arboretum to say hey we’re supporting this because they’re taking down landscaping that is built for that sign but they understand the pain that’s necessary. It’s always the middle of a project. You know the planning. It’s just that middle messy part that nobody really likes. And so they’re like yep, we’re on board with that. The alignment once you get in the Arboretum used to be on Highway 5. Very close to Highway 5 and everybody said let’s move it into the Arboretum. We’re in the Arboretum. Let’s have a much better trail experience so when you get into the Arboretum you’re going to be into these much more beautiful serene areas. Now you’re going to go past the gate house. You’re going to stay outside of their deer fence. This project is very important to the Arboretum. It’s going to include their deer fence on the full north property line and so as you move along sections of this trail, you’ve got the deer fence inbetween the trail and the property. Then you’re going to have the trail so it’s on the outside of the deer fence proper and the trail can be utilized by the public. You’ll continue through and you’ll connect to the underpass at State Highway 41. Or excuse me State Highway 5. You always like to bundle value and so the City, the federal government, the State of Minnesota has invested in that underpass that’s sitting out there now getting people from the west into the Arboretum. Now you’re going to be able to get people both ways. So you have an underpass at the east. Underpass at the west. Trail in the middle. If you think of just the people that would like to get to the Arboretum by bike or running or walking, it’s a regional destination. It’s a regional trail. It’s part of our transportation network. People that live in Victoria want to get to Chanhassen by bike, by work. People that work at the Arboretum want to get to work by bike. It’s just an important section of trail for the community. Life Time Fitness itself will probably send 200-300 people a day from their health club into the Arboretum to experience that. Mostly via running probably. That’s why they’re onboard. They’re like are you kidding me? We have our world corporate campus next to a beautiful Arboretum facility that we can’t even access currently now. By being a partner to this project and giving some right-of-way up we can have our people just scoot right underneath Highway 41 and into the Arboretum. 19 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Experiencing that. You know they have significant running clubs that run all over the community now. Now you’re going to be able to head into the Arboretum. And the Arboretum is still onboard because they had a change in leadership. There was a leader at the Arboretum previously that did not value penetrating the gates other than by car into the Arboretum. When that change of leadership happened those people said this is amazing. If we get people into our Arboretum by bike, pedestrian, we don’t care. They’re not members. They’re going to come back. They’re going to say wow, this place is just absolutely remarkable. We want to come back and support this. Probably drive their car then and come, you know take on a membership. So that’s the basis of it. When I first got involved, when I came to Chanhassen this was a project on the docket. And then in 2010 the City did detailed plans for this project. And then in 2015 the County did detailed projects and when we went to the Arboretum they pulled out a plan from 1972 that had a detailed plan to reach the Arboretum via trail so it’s been a long term, long term goal for everybody to get the Arboretum connected to the local community via trail and you know everybody’s working towards that goal. If you feel in the dark, I can tell you I’m about as in the dark as you. I know where we’re at with the documents. Don’t know where we’re at with the money yet until it’s bid. Once it’s bid that’s the true cost of the project. It’s a pretty significant project. If there’s not a lot of competition out there for work and if we get a high bid then people can walk away or they can rebid it. Hopefully there’s some competition in the marketplace and we get a good bid and everybody can move forward. So those are the basis of that project. Pemrick: Question. Actually two questions. First one you said Arboretum is taking care of the maintenance of their section of it so how much of, how much trail is the City then going to be taking on for maintenance? Hoffman: Yep so we’d maintain from Century to 41. Pemrick: Okay so that’s not a lot at all. Okay. And then the other one was, I remember last fall there was discussion about adding or continuing the trail along Powers Boulevard into, down to th West 78 and all the way up into Excelsior. Do you have an update on that because I was just thinking that’s the other way. That’s the only way I’ve ever biked to Victoria is go up Powers and then catch that trail and take that over to Victoria. Hoffman: Yep so that’s called the Mill Street trail extension and being worked on by Hennepin County and I’ll be at a TAC meeting, Technical Advisory Committee meeting tomorrow with Jason Wedel our City Engineer. So that’s continuing to move forward. It’s a Hennepin County project. It would pick the trail up at the Hennepin County/Carver County border. At Powers Boulevard where it turns into Mill Street and take it into Excelsior. Another very complicated project. You know somewhat, there’s two sides to that project because you’ve got people that live there that are going to be affected you know pretty dramatically at their front yard and, but everybody understands the need for that project. The desire. You’ll probably see just as many people coming south to get to Chanhassen as people going north to get to Excelsior. So that project is still in the planning stages. You know we’ll be on the hook for a section so we have a 20 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 one block section there that’s not completed and we want them to include it in the plans and then we would pay for that and so that would come at some future time. We don’t know what that cost would be. And that’s the section just right there where it left off just one block south of the Hennepin County line and the City of Shorewood. Pemrick: So that’s still way. Hoffman: Not way out. Pemrick: Not way out? Hoffman: Not way out. Could be built in 2020. Could be built in 2021. Pemrick: Okay. Hoffman: Yep. And the real power behind that project is Hennepin County came to the table and so when you understand how these things happen, there was also a leader at Hennepin County that did not want to get involved in these local projects in the outskirts of Hennepin County. Had no interest. That person left. New person came on and said what have we been doing ignoring these people for all this time? Let’s get out there and help these folks out. They pay county taxes just like everybody else. Let’s find the highest need areas. A trail from Chanhassen to Excelsior is one of their highest needs. They’re like yeah, let’s make this happen. For years and years and years we’d get together a park commissioner from Excelsior, Shorewood and Chanhassen and they would sit down and talk about how this was going to happen and with the cash equivalent of the City of Shorewood, City of Excelsior and City of Chanhassen it was just never going to happen and so that happened on 3 different meeting occasions. Let’s get going. Let’s talk to our mayors. Let’s get some, build some energy behind this and it just wasn’t going to happen because you didn’t have that big player. Now you’ve got Hennepin County. They’re a big player in the room. They can make that project move forward. Boettcher: Any other discussion? Joe you have anything? Scanlon: No, I mean it’s great to get caught up on the, I joined shortly after all that was recommended by the previous commissioners. Sounds like very essential projects so it’d be hard to you know react or do anything before we get a formal bid so I think it’s worth keeping an eye on for sure. Boettcher: Sandy you just hit the button. Sweetser: Yes I did. Quick question for the slides. I’m a very visual person so slide number one Todd, it’s got the low wall. I get what number 2 is showing. What is number one? Where does all this wall kind of start and is this the whole, along the whole trail that there would be that wall and the fence? 21 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Hoffman: Nope. This is on both sides and primarily on the, most of it is on the west side so it’s diving into the tunnel from Life Time Fitness and coming out of the tunnel on the Arboretum. Sweetser: So it’s not the entire, it’s just that portion? Hoffman: No right there. Getting it down to grade so you can get underneath. Sweetser: Okay. Boettcher: It kind of if you expand this picture you can kind of see the artist misconception of where it would start and end. Sweetser: I was like well maybe we can cut down on some of the seating that’s in there but I understand what it is now. Boettcher: Well and that just, I just wanted to add real quick too. The fact that the Arboretum is onboard with this. I remember in the County Park Commission we were talking about the initial alignment of the trail right along Highway 5. It was like they were telling us we don’t want you here. You know stay out there. Don’t get too close. Now to open it up and let us right there, I mean let the trail come right up against the parking lot like that, that’s pretty amazing that they’re coming to the table like that and letting people march through their property. I mean that’s, like you said that was unheard of just a few years ago. Never would have happened. Sweetser: It’s no doubt a great partnership but what do we do if all of a sudden that $1.2 goes up to $1.5? You know I guess I’m asking more us. What do we do you know? Tsuchiya: Well I think it depends on how strongly you recommend it. We don’t make the decision. The council does. If we strongly recommend it then we also put on them, we have to find the funding for this. Hoffman: Yeah this is no doubt an opportunity for the recommending bodies and the policy makers of the city and it’s a legacy project and you walk away from a legacy project you’re always going to be known for that so. Sweetser: That was my next question was can we get this sponsored? I don’t have the money. Petouvis: How about if Life Time sponsors it? Sweetser: I’m joking but not joking really. But is there sponsorship opportunity? Hoffman: Life Time is kicking in a significant cash on their end, and they’re going to name a section, their section of the trail after a gentleman that passed away that worked on this project in 22 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 the early stages. There’s always a lot of ways to look at a number and look at a project and if, whatever the number is. Let’s say it ends up to be the $1.2 million or the million fifty, the multiplier on that, and there’s at least half that number in multiplier that’s been attached to that in energy, time, cash, over the years and so if you throw away the $1.2 million because you don’t want to spend it you’re going to throw away $600,000 as a multiplier that’s been invested to make that $1.2 million become a project. Boettcher: Quick question Todd. Wasn’t the County going to take over the maintenance within the city after a period of time? Hoffman: The County will do the blacktop maintenance so long term blacktop maintenance but we do the daily plowing and the sweeping and those type of things yeah. Boettcher: Okay. I thought there was something where the County was taking it over. Petouvis: We find ourselves in the exciting and daunting position of having lots of legacy projects on our shoulders with no money so that is. Very exciting legacy projects but at the same time money is money and it doesn’t grow on trees so that puts us in an interesting position so. Boettcher: Yeah it’s good to be able to hear all the background on what actually happened. Petouvis: Exactly. Boettcher: So that the initial number that you and Karl saw when you joined, that $140,000 like Todd said, that was just like for this you use simple math. Petouvis: Right I know but so that it’s really interesting because that’s the number that’s in front of you as a commission when your decision making and you’re looking at what your park dedication fund balance is and you’re saying well $140,000 that’s what we spend a year in I don’t know. Boettcher: Trees. Petouvis: Exactly. It’s no, that’s relatively no big deal. Boettcher: Right. Petouvis: And so we’re not talking apples to apples here. It’s a different kind of project and a different kind of bite out our funding. Certainly no argument from me about the value of the project. It’s just, it’s how this project fits into the puzzle of you know our overall goals as a city and what we have as funding and the fact that we’ve made a very conscious decision over the past at least 1 to 2 budgeting cycles to save money knowing that Lake Ann was coming as an opportunity and so, and then you know the question mark is the Arboretum trail. That impacts a 23 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 huge cross section of our area. Is that a more important project than the Lake Ann project? Is it, you know where do we fit all of these puzzle pieces so this was all why I wanted to talk about it tonight. Tsuchiya: I don’t disagree with you Meredith. I’m just wondering do we need to prioritize them as you’re suggesting or do we just say you know we group them instead to say look are these the Class A projects. These are ones that have to be done. We don’t rank them within the class and then these are Class B and Class C because I envision you know we look at it and say what are the ones that really should be done now. We have improvements in place. There’s momentum behind these projects. The Arboretum trail is at a stage now where yeah we can pull out of it. We’re not at that stage but we still have the option. Of course we’re just the recommending body so it’s not our decision but we look at that and then we look at Lake Ann. That’s going to come at sometime. We don’t know what that’s going to, you know that dollar amount’s going to dwarf this more than likely than not so we don’t know how the City and the park dedication fund is going to be replenished over time so I think we just have to face the reality that we’re going to spend beyond our means right now but the opportunity is there right now to say this is what we have to do and we have to then you know, the other thing you add it to the agenda. Think outside the box but you know there’s a minimum level of money we’re going to have to spend to do these projects. You can’t go below that and if you want to do the project this is where you start. So I see like the Arboretum trail, Lake Ann and then Todd what you’d call it? Mill Street project? Yeah, I mean unless there’s more but those seem to be those kind of projects where they’ve been on the master plan for so long and they’re an opportunity of presenting itself now where not only the City but the County and other cities are involved with federal funds. I’m not saying that these are going to happen no matter what but I think that’s something to keep in mind that you just kind of have to put it to the city like we feel that this is really important. The commission does. I think the citizens of Chanhassen think so. Obviously it impacts citizens outside of Chanhassen which is a great benefit but they’re going to have to find the money somehow and we can make recommendations but I think looking at the value of these projects will provide to the city long term is undeniable at this point. Petouvis: Well said. Boettcher: Very good. Anymore discussion or we want to move on to CIP and the core. You were the convener on that. Petouvis: I just wanted to make sure we had it on the table as a point of discussion and I feel like we’ve done that. I feel like we’re all on the same page, or we all are at the same level of knowledge. No matter where our own personal opinions may lie so that’s good. Mission accomplished as far as I’m concerned so thank you. Tsuchiya: Thank you Meredith. I think that was great. Boettcher: It was, thank you. So we’ll move onto new business item G-2(B). 24 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Tsuchiya: Wait, don’t we have to make a motion? Boettcher: No, no we’re going to do the CIP. That was in addition. Tsuchiya: Oh that was G(A). Boettcher: That was A. Tsuchiya: A, okay. Excuse me. Boettcher: Now we’re on 2(B). And this is the big kahuna and we’re looking at 2020 through 2024. So you have several pages of items here. We’re looking at our traditional costs. Every year we’ve got the picnic tables and park benches. We’ve got the trees. Then we get into the bigger dollar amounts. Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail. Final phase. Get into Bandimere. This is one that’s been hanging out there for a long time. It’s Bandimere Park sport court. Rec Center fence, dugouts and backstops. So this is taking us out through the entire 5 year period. And there’s the one we’ve just been discussing. Arboretum trail, Highway 41 underpass. That’s a 2020 item. And then the final page is projects by funding source. So when you look, did everyone receive Todd’s email that had the history of the park dedication funds? And if you looked at that for where we’re currently at or where we’re projected, where we were at the end of 2018, the year end fund balance of $1,419, 972. And if you look at the last page in this packet I just went through our spending for next year is listed at $1.375 so we’re pretty much, there’s not a lot of leeway there. So again any changes in any of this? Any estimates? Any engineering changes, whatever is really going to take us down. We could be in trouble there but start the discussion. Anybody have any recommendations? You want any of these items you want to discuss? You want to move something down. Pull something in. You know 2020 goes, 2022, 2023 to 2021. This is the time to do the head cutting as they say. Sweetser: I would just like to throw in, not necessarily moving the time frame but for Bandimere, could we at least kind of put in the notes the new, potentially doing new soccer nets. Soccer system. You know hopefully by that point a few years from now maybe it could be rolled in with the sport court company or something to that effect but at least putting that kind of on a potential Bandimere list because those, even though I know CC United believes that those nets are, those systems are not the correct size. They’re definitely getting old as well so they’ll probably by 2020-24 need to be replaced anyway. Just like to add that in. Petouvis: As a point also just to bring our new members up to speed on what our budgeting philosophy has been over the past couple of years. I think you saw it noted somewhere else in the CIP that those projects are actually kind of you know pushed out because we’ve made the conscious decision to try and preserve funding for it so just to, just so you know. Those bigger dollar Bandimere projects and the Rec Center dugout that’s been back burnered. 25 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: And if you look at the way that funding, the spending is listed right now on that final page. Because of the big hit we’re taking, scheduled to take in 2020, 21 through 23 is minimal. That’s trees and benches. Petouvis: Right. Boettcher: So we’re hoping to build the fund back up because there could be additional things that pop up you know after that 3 year period so with that in mind, I mean Bandimere has been one, as Meredith said, it has been pushed out. That can has been kicked down the road so many times it’s nothing but dents so. Petouvis: But it is still solidly on the radar. Boettcher: Definitely. I think that was reiterated in our meeting with City Council. Petouvis: Yes sir. Boettcher: We have not forgotten. Or we shall return, which ever. Pemrick: I don’t know if I’m just totally forgetting, give some more back story on the Chanhassen Nature Preserve Trail. Final phase. Because is that set in stone right, I know this is, how set in stone is that and what is it? Hoffman: Sure. Pemrick: And what does it all encompass. Hoffman: Yep. So the Chanhassen Nature Preserve is west of the Recreation Center. It’s a trail that circles around by the Holiday Inn Express. It was acquired. It’s just about 100 acres so it’s a significant piece of property and there was a master trail plan developed and then development contract agreements between the developers and the City. This is the last piece of property so there’s a company called Mamac Systems right there on the portion and then there’s an empty lot and then there’s going to be a building built in that empty lot. When that’s built by their development contract it says okay, you’re going to build the section of trail for the City. We’re going to pay you for the cost of the asphalt, the rock. You’re going to do the design. You’re going to do the grading. You’re going to install it and we’re just going to pay you back those costs. It’s an effective way to get comprehensive trail sections installed. If you try to do them beforehand typically what happens is you build it in the way of their future construction and the investment is wasted. So it’s an efficient way to say when your lot comes in you’re going to build that section of trail. For example when the Holiday Inn Express was built they had to build a long section of trail on their lot. We had to pay them for the cost of the materials and so it’s an effective way to get things done. This is, I believe it’s Control Concepts that’s coming in and they’re going to build a building there. They build the trail. We don’t have the cost yet. The 26 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 $150,000 is my estimate and it will, once it’s bid and the project is underway then we’ll understand what the complete cost is. So we’re under contract with Control Concepts. We have a development contract which says you’ll do this. We’ll do that and we’ll get along and you build your building, you build our trail, we’ll pay you back for it. Pemrick: Okay. Thank you. Boettcher: Todd do you happen to have, can we see a, is there an overhead or GPS satellite view of this? Hoffman: Of that trail? Boettcher: Pull it up on the website or something. Hoffman: Let’s see if we can find, do you want to look something up Jerry and then the overhead. Let me see if I might have it right here. Boettcher: Because that’s one we’ve discussed a few times but it’s not clear where the boundaries are. Petouvis: I guess it popped on real quick and popped right back off just as fast last year to our discussions. Pemrick: Has Control Concepts started building their building? Hoffman: They’re close. They’re close to get it started so, I saw the gentleman in the office the other day and they’re close to getting started. It was on again, off again, and now it’s back on again. Let’s zoom in on this Jerry. Okay that’s good. So that’s the Mamac building and they, this is Century Boulevard, Highway 5. Holiday Inn Express sits right here and the dentist is right there. Tweet is right there. So this is the road that goes right through the nature preserve and this is where the trail will touch down and this is going to be the new building, Control Concepts. And the trail’s going to touch down here and then wrap around their building and connect. It’s the last segment of trail and there’s a trail that goes this way now and then this trail loops all the way around the nature preserve and then comes back this way. So this is the last piece on their property. Pemrick: Thank you. Hoffman: So that master plan is 20 years old and it’s the last piece of the puzzle that’s being built and again there was a park commission here 20 years ago that made that deal. City Council agreed with it. Everybody’s got to agree with it now but you’re under a contract. Development contract with them. And that allows them to understand what they’re getting involved in and it keeps, you know it gets public trails built by private parties and then it also it leverages, they’re 27 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 there. They’re doing grading. It’s a benefit to their property. Their employees can you know take a nice lunch hour walk so they’re investing because they’re going to do some planting. Some grading. You know it would just be easier for them if it wasn’t there so they’re investing some costs and so we’re leveraging that fact that they’re there and as long as again everybody gets along. Gets their job done and we pay our bills and I know that’s a challenge. One thing to, that I think the park board also can remember is lots of cities spend lots of money on park things that are not park dedication funds and so when you’re struggling that’s because that’s what you have as an access to funding but there’s been many park improvements done in this community without park dedication funds so you can buy a dump truck. You can build a trail. You know you can buy a fire truck or you can build a park. So there’s cash. You know it’s allocated already but that’s a council decision and they’re going to weigh the same things you’re talking about is this valuable? Do we want to do this? Do we want to find the cash to do this? We know Lake Ann’s coming up. We know Bandimere is down the road. I think this is probably the reason that the referendum discussion has come up. You know should we congeal some of these projects and put a referendum out there and let people vote for them and so that’s another process as well. This is the same scenario that happened the last time around we had a referendum. There’s lots of things tumbling down on the park commission and City Council because we had tons of development going on. Lots of desires. Lots of needs and so they said well let’s have a referendum. And when we get to that discussion for just something to jot down is, this commission in this room said in 1994 we should have a park referendum. That referendum occurred on June 19, 1997. Three years later so it’s, can be a long process as well. They had two surveys that they did. First survey said that the citizenry wouldn’t support it so they modified the proposal. Modified the approach. The second survey said the citizenry would support it and it just took you know 2 ½-3 years to make that process but that’s for a later discussion. Boettcher: Other discussion? Looking at the numbers as they’re laying out from 2020 to 2024, does anyone see a reason to make any changes on the timeline of scheduled projects? Hoffman: Chair Boettcher it’s important for the commission, if you look at projects by funding source. I want to do some doodling with you so you understand exactly what’s being recommended. So projects by funding source includes those 3 items on the right. Bandimere $640,000. Bandimere $245,000. Rec Center, those are crossed out. Those are not included. Those are out. Boettcher: Oh they are, okay. Hoffman: Everything else is in and everything else adds up to the $1,475,000. So if you make the recommendation and the council supports it you’re going to build an Arboretum trail. You’re going to build a Chan Nature Preserve trail. Then you’re going to wait and we don’t even have to plant trees or buy benches for 4 years. We can save that money and then you’re just going to wait and see what the next opportunity is and what the next funding source is and so park dedication dollars come in sporadically based on development. Sometimes you give it away like 28 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 you did at Lake Ann. You said here’s your $980,000 back. Thank you for your land and sometimes you take their money and you utilize it somewhere else. The need for this cash is why the City has so feverishly supported park dedication and where we were at with that and so early on in the city’s history park dedications were down in the, you know the mid 2,000’s and we knew that our land values were higher than that and we needed to generate more money. We were the first ones to top out in the metro area at $5,800 per house. Again that’s defensible. It’s made by State statute. Developers didn’t like it but we knew we had a lot of business to do and so over the years Chanhassen has captured more than our, not more than our fair share. We’ve captured our fair share but we’ve captured more than many other cities because they’ve just left their fees lower. $2,800 per house. $3,200 per house. So this city has maxed out what you can gain. You’ve maxed out your investments. You’ve utilized park dedication quite aggressively and when people from the outside look at this community what they tell me is we can’t believe what you’ve built with what little you’ve had. That’s the over riding story when people from the outside look at Chanhassen. So when you’re struggling over your cash, I think there’s always a celebration that you’ve accomplished a great deal. Boettcher: Good. Meredith’s thinking. Petouvis: Oh no. Boettcher: It’s always interesting. Petouvis: Yes. Boettcher: It’s a challenge more some years than others but. Sandy anything else? Sweetser: No. Petouvis: I’m just the type of person guys. I don’t carry a credit card balance. I don’t buy what I can’t, I mean so this is where I’m coming from. I know it’s not a surprise to anybody at this table but you know there are a lot of people. Hoffman: Did you charge anything this month? Tsuchiya: Her card melted. Petouvis: My card did melt. Yes but that balance will not be there so I don’t swipe that card if I don’t have the money to pay for it and that’s not really how lots of governments work so. Boettcher: Any of them. Petouvis: Yeah I get that so I just don’t want us to become over extended in the way that I think it has irresponsibly happened in higher portions. 29 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: I think based on this group I don’t think it would be our fault. It would be other circumstances. Petouvis: So, but I want to build these things. Don’t get me wrong. Don’t get me wrong. Just want to have the discussions. Boettcher: You’ll be out there handing out the money as they’re grading. You’ve got a thousand worth there. Go another foot. Here’s another thousand. Petouvis: No because I’ll be at Pioneer Pass making sure that the skating rink is getting used. Pemrick: So quick question though is, so if we’re aware the Lake Ann expansion is right now, is that too early to be on this plan at this point in time? Would be my only other question. Tsuchiya: I think the answer is we don’t know. Petouvis: Is that part of our little deeper down the agenda? Hoffman: Yeah and the feasibility study will start to estimate costs and you’ll know that information in October or November this year. Pemrick: Okay. Hoffman: And then you’ll have that information. There’s also some timing that we’ll talk about and so with the staging, the phasing the Lennar’s doing. There’s some additional timing I think that we can stretch this out so we’ll talk about that as well. Pemrick: So this is everything best known information at this point in time? Okay. Boettcher: So at this point if there’s no other discussion does someone want to try to read the motion again? Tsuchiya: I’ve got this one. Boettcher: Commissioner Tsuchiya. Tsuchiya: I’m going to try. I’ll make a motion the Park and Recreation Commission recommends the City Council approve a 2020 to 2024 Fund 410 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program totaling $1,475,000 to complete the projects listed in Attachment 2. Boettcher: We have a motion. Do we have a second? 30 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Petouvis: Second. Boettcher: Motion and a second. Tsuchiya moved, Petouvis seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends the City Council approve a 2020 to 2024 Fund 410 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program totaling $1,475,000 to complete the projects listed in Attachment 2. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. TH REPORTS: 2019 4 OF JULY CELEBRATIN EVALUATION. Boettcher: Todd is there anything we have old business to discuss? th Hoffman: Jerry’s going to talk briefly about the 4. Ruegemer: Talking about old business. This seems like a while ago but I’m just not, and in the essence of time here tonight I’m not going to go through line item by line item. Just want to th thank all the commissioners that were involved this year. We celebrated our 36 year. Really a lot of cooperation between community groups and organizations. Everything just went off splendidly with the event with that so we just, we have a lot to celebrate and so we’re very appreciative of our community. Generations of families come. Keep coming back every year so, so that’s really it. I’m not going to go item by item but it’s very detailed. All the information is there. The expenditures. The revenues so kind of see kind of where we’re at. We just wanted to give the commission a real brief update. Audrey Swantz who was our Recreation Supervisor did th resign her position effective August 16 with that so just, she just felt she wanted to pursue other areas. Potentially go back to school. Don’t say it Jim. I knew you’d say it. Boettcher: I’m just adding up. Ruegemer: So I just wanted to give the commission a quick update on that so if there’s anything in the interim process right now please feel free to give me a call. Her position is being th advertised right now. The deadline is September 10 and then we will go through that selection process again. Hopefully have some one in here the first couple weeks in October. Boettcher: As a suggestion, you know GM and Ford and all companies have it. Anybody with more than 2 people you have the order chart. So you could change this from reporting to Jerry. Do a dotted line to report to Todd. Would that, I think this was the shortest tenure of any that I know of. Was it 4 months? Ruegemer: It was 7 to 8. 31 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: 7 to 8? Ruegemer: Yeah she started in January so. No but I appreciate your comments Jim. Thank you. Boettcher: I’m just thinking anything we can do to ease this, you know take some of the burden off the people come in that they’re not shocked. Hoffman: It takes a special kind of person. We’ll find them. th Tsuchiya: I would like to circle back and help Jerry out. Great job with the 4 of July. My kids since moving here have really come to appreciate being up there and we went, I think it was the rd 3 when they do that $25 wrist band for the rides. That’s their highlight and I saw Adam up there. He was working hard sort of but everything’s great. I like the set up this year. The different set up with the rides and the food and the big seating area in the tent. I thought that was fantastic so I would like to see that again and bigger and better. There’s so many people up there so that was great. Ruegemer: Okay, thank you. Boettcher: And thank you for bringing in the Armadillo’s. Sweetser: They were very good. Tsuchiya: Yes that was that night. They were good. Sweetser: Does Rotary keep all the beer money? Ruegemer: They do. That is a fund raiser for their organization that they redistribute the revenues that are generated out for community outreach programs and it goes to good use. Hoffman: The next day about $12,000 goes right back into the parade. Ten. Depending on what it is. Sweetser: I just was curious. th Boettcher: So that takes care of the old business and 4 of July celebration. UPDATE ON THE FEASIBILITY STUDY AT NEWLY ACQUIRED PARKLAND AT LAKE ANN PARK. Boettcher: So to 2-A as suggested again by Commissioner Petouvis. The directive by the Mayor where we were challenged back in April at our meeting to think out of the box. Thinking of the fact that we may not have any funds and things that we can do to, there has been some discussion 32 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 among individuals on the commission. I know Commissioner Petouvis and I have talked about it but anything, if you want to start. I’ll start. Whatever it doesn’t matter. Hoffman: You may want to reverse these two. Petouvis: Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Yeah. Boettcher: So you want to start at B instead? Petouvis: Yeah. Boettcher: Okay. Let me see if I can make an A into a B. So let’s go with update on the feasibility study. We have a couple of documents in front of you here. Hoffman: We’ve got a presentation from Kevin Clark from Hoisington-Koegler. Boettcher: Okay. And your name for the record please. Kevin Clark: Kevin Clark. Boettcher: Kevin Clark. Okay. Kevin Clark: Yep and I work with Hoisington-Koegler Group and we’ve been working with the city and SEH to get this feasibility study underway. Boettcher: Can you get our, these monitors back on Jerry? They’re off line again. Ruegemer: When I did that the big TV’s shut off so I’m not sure why. Boettcher: Okay that’s fine. Ruegemer: I shut those off when they came back on so. Hoffman: If we can get their screens? Ruegemer: Would you like to do that? Hoffman: Yeah let’s try that. Ruegemer: Alright give me a quick second. Petouvis: And for my education what is SEH? 33 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Kevin Clark: Short Elliott Henricksen. They’re an engineering firm. Petouvis: Okay. Kevin Clark: So we’ve got them on the project to handle some of the permitting stuff as well as some of the water crossings. Petouvis: Okay. Kevin Clark: So they’ve got quite a bit of experience with that. One of the ones, Nine Mile Creek trail that goes through Edina is like a few miles worth of boardwalk so. Petouvis: Okay. Kevin Clark: You’ve got a whole and a strength built around some of those pieces. Petouvis: Great, thank you. Hoffman: So Hoisington really planning architectural focus. SEH engineering focused so you combine the two and then you work on the different portions of the project. Petouvis: Okay thank you. Kevin Clark: Yep. So I’ll try to go through this fairly lengthy process. Tonight some of the site analysis stuff, we’ll walk through some maps. Public input, what we’ve heard so far. And then open it up for discussion among you all. So I mean similar to smaller projects but this is a line that has been on the map for a very long time. Not just the most recent comp plan. Not the 2030 comp plan. We spoke with a Planning Commission member who had done work and had found a plan that I think had been done in the 70’s that showed that connection going all the way around Lake Ann as well as in the park system plan. Then that has transitioned into a park master plan. So an approach to looking at this property and specifically thinking about what might go there. And then with the subdivision of the property that was the triggered that allowed the City to acquire the parkland. I’d like to commend the City on being able to come up with a way to you know keep that connection all the way around Lake Ann. At least still moving in the right direction. There’s a lot of places that you know don’t have that kind of shoreland within their, you know open to the public and it’s a pretty unique opportunity for the City to have that. So then where we’re at now is we’re talking about the feasibility study. After that, as we’ve also heard a fair amount about tonight there’s the question of securing funding and then going through the refined design work and permitting and the construction of the process. So the feasibility study is intended to look at some of the opportunities and the challenges that are out there and you know really get a better understanding of constructability. What is feasible there from what can be built. What the costs are really going to look like. Try to get a better idea so that when those discussions come back we’re not talking about expansion kind of in that same 34 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 percentage wise like you were dealing with with some of the other trails. And as well as understanding kind of the environmental concerns that are out there. The regulatory so there are a number of different agencies that will have to sign off on different parts of the development of that plan as well as the phasing of the plan and how different pieces get built at different times. So we started in July with some background analysis. Through the end of July and into August looking at plan alternatives. Through August we’ve been collecting stakeholder input. We’re at the Park and Recreation Commission meeting that’s going on here at the end of August. We’ll be back next month is the plan. So with your input as well as the City Council we’ll move ahead with kind of preferred plan and then finalizing the feasibility report. So the key principles are the framework of the plan that we’ve been working with are to continue trails around Lake Ann to allow for an eventual loop. Preserving lands as valued natural area in Chanhassen. Connecting residents with nature trails and parks. Protect the ecological functioning of the site and celebrate Lake Ann, Lake Lucy and this property’s community amenity so there’s about, there now is and going to be about 100 acres worth of public land over a mile of shoreland on those two lakes and those are pretty cool community amenities. So I’ll run through some of these maps real quick just to kind of get centered. So Lake Ann Park on the south with the trail corridor that’s gone up through and inbetween the lake and the temple. And then up to Greenwood Shores Park. What this most recent piece of property does is really takes care of all that northwest section of Lake Ann and adds that to the system. The purple outline is that original Galpin property. The purple on the inside is what will wind up being public property as part of the City’s stuff so. The original property, the subdivision that is happening. That is the land that’s trail corridors. Some of that will be graded for ponding and things but generally this is the outline of what will be public as part of this process. So that purple line then becomes that, the public land. Then you see where Greenwood Shores Park and Lake Ann Park come up to it. This just shows some of the land form that’s out there so really you’ve got that bigger wetland complex that runs through it and really separates the new development, the new neighborhood from some of the other upland that is part of the park. As well as some of the perched uplands that are inside of the park property. So you’ve got some of the wetland connections, the lake front as well as to think about as well as some of those internal wetlands too. All of them are really pretty high quality wetlands so as we think about the ecological functioning, making sure we’re preserving and protecting the way those are working. There are some edges of buckthorn that are coming into the park. When you really get into the heart of the park it’s really impressive the lack of buckthorn that’s there. So thinking about how as the park is developed and what sorts of things are put into the park, how to manage some of the buckthorn. How to keep buckthorn from spreading and how to really kind of fight it back. So the picture on the left is quite a bit of buckthorn. You can see how it just really forms that very intense impenetrable kind of edge. Inside the heart of the park walking around with some of the ecological folks on our site tour were just absolutely wowed by the absence of it. And you can sort of, the whole character is entirely different. There are some informal existing foot trails that have been used by a number of people over the years. And generally those trails are where they are because they respond to views. They don’t go through areas where people were going to get their shoes wet anyways. They choose, you know so there is some pretty good logic to where those trails go today. What you as kind of what those trails are they’re generally dirt trails that have been put in place by 35 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 people who have been out hiking through them. There are also spots that are crossings of wetlands or the creek inbetween the two lakes. There will have to be a thought about that when there’s just a handful of people that are out walking on the trails some of these trails could handle it. If it becomes a much more popular place that has different impacts in terms of what happens from an erosion perspective. What happens with you know leaving seeds that are on people’s boots or things like that is there coming through and what those impacts are to the park. As part of the development process there will be built trails that come up so that’s the orange trails that are going on. Up to the wetlands. That is part of the neighborhood development process. The City will be managing the crossings and then everything on the other side of those parks. Hoffman: We need to modify, the orange on the top is city except for just the two connections to the cul-de-sac. Kevin Clark: Just the two connections to the cul-de-sac. Hoffman: Did you guys follow that? This is all city built. This is city built. They build these steps to the end and then this is city built. This is our property. Typically we build what’s on our property. They build what’s on their property so this is all single back here and that piece is not. That’s their’s and this is their’s to build but we’re paying, they’re building this. They’re building that. We’re not paying any costs of that. We do all the internal trips. Kevin Clark: Yeah. There will be some stormwater retention that’s happening to the south sort of in that area where Todd just talked about switching those trails degreeing so coordinating the building of those trails with the, with the wetland, or with the water, stormwater retention that’s going to be happening out there will be an important piece of this. So they are in the process of building out the site in phases so that the first phase, the second phase, the third phase, and then the final phase. As part of it the City has acquired the, for whatever reason the graphic should come straight across on the top with it, the purple but the City has acquired up to that line. When the fourth phase is, goes through it’s final plat then the City will be acquiring that top piece but until then the City doesn’t have guaranteed access to some of those pieces so that has implications in terms of phasing construction. Where some of those other trails can come in. How you get those things built. Then the second piece so that will meet with that, the fourth phase. Tsuchiya: Todd has that deed been recorded? Is that done? Hoffman: It’s in the process. Tsuchiya: Okay. Hoffman: So Outlot A is the first acquisition. Big one and that comes with the final platting of their first addition and that’s again a pretty big piece of history for this city. 36 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Tsuchiya: I was just wondering if it’s been recorded. Hoffman: When it is I’ll let you know. Tsuchiya: I’m truly interested. Hoffman: It’s in the process. Tsuchiya: When it’s done in the County level. Kevin Clark: So in terms of the trails that are coming in, especially on that north side, we’re just doing some thinking about how that can actually happen. Then what the timing of that needs to look like. So this is the concept plan that was done a couple of years ago. Shows paved trail with bituminous trail connections. The key pieces of that being thinking about the crossings so there’s the wetland crossing in the southwest. The crossing where that whole wetland drains into Lake Lucy on the north and then the crossing of the stream inbetween Lake Lucy and Lake Ann to, over by Greenwood Shores Park. Thinking about how those trails are going to facilitate the loop all the way around the lake as well as connect to existing trail network and connect to neighborhoods and residents of the city. So the key points to address at the planning, extending the trail further around Lake Ann and connecting to neighborhoods and residents. Preserving the ability to complete the loop in the future so there’s still a piece of property that’s privately owned in the southwest side of Lake Ann. If that property subdivides that may be another opportunity for the City to complete that loop but without kind of taking the steps that happened with Lake Ann and with the Galpin property that would then be off the table so that’s, you know this is an important piece of making that loop happen. Protecting environment functions of the site. Providing a durable trail surface to minimize the disturbance, the erosion, the introduction of foreign plant material that will come along with higher uses. We want visitors to connect with and enjoy nature and that’s views. That’s education talking about what’s going on on the site. Being able to do nature observation. Bird watching. As well as being able to sit and relax and take in some pretty cool forest and then managing the crossings so. As part of the public process we wanted to present, there are two variations that were intended to illicit more of a response one way or the other. Help people think about either a lighter touch that may be an aggregate trail in the interim until there’s the ability to complete the entire trail’s paved loop and really kind of minimizing secondary trails. Or thinking more about actually having secondary trails. The paved loop. And then thinking about more the benches. How people are able to look at the lake. Interact with it so. So to date we’ve got 457 responses and that’s a survey and in person. I’d like to thank Commissioner Petouvis and Pemrick for being out at the concert on, I think it was the th bluegrass concert. August 8 concert and so we got to talk to some folks out there. We had a table set up. Some people were able to take the survey there. As well as a number of people that have done it online. I think a number of you have also helped share it because those numbers have kept going up as well so thank you all for helping get the word out. The input to date. Some of the really key findings, I know you all had a copy of the input in your packets. Those numbers have grown. Generally the trends still are looking the same. The strong desire to 37 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 protect the natural environment and especially sensitive habitat. People are generally excited about trails. There are a lot of people with kind of a wide range of opinions. But right now the general opinion has leaned more towards paved trails. I think most people are excited to get on the property and being able to walk around it an excited about the long term connection all the way around the lake. An interest in sort of varied experiences for trail users. Interacting with the lake. Different views. Seeing unique areas. There’s some different opportunities on that site to see different kinds of wetlands. See pretty cool forests. Be able to look out at the lakes, things like that so. We’ve asked people kind of on both schemes things they liked and things that they didn’t and then said you know what are the things that are the most important to you when it comes to the future development of this park. Preserving sensitive habitat was the highest ranked one. The varied trail’s experiences and locations and then lake experiences. Paved trail came in higher than having aggregate trails. The, as something that people were seeing as the mot important kind of piece. And some of the other pieces as well so, with that I’d be interested in kind of having the discussion with you all, would be a lot further in terms of having made a bunch of these decisions when we come back to you so now would be a good time to make sure that I’ve answered any questions you’ve got or if I can that Todd has. But then also trying to think a little bit about you know what are the, what is the biggest opportunity for the city with regards to this project. You know how do you hope to use this area in the future and that can help us sort of understand what direction the design really should go and then what other ideas, opportunities, concerns, things like that should be considered so. Thank you very much. Hoffman: And so the commissioners are aware this will also go to the council on, I believe it’s th 9-9, September 9 and so we’ll be doing this same kind of presentation and offering your input at that meeting and then also you can be there in person at that work session as we go through this first rendition with the council. Boettcher: To me it’s always interesting to read in the verbatim responses. I mean everything is, you know somebody wants to save all the butterflies which I appreciate. I mean that’s not a knock but then on the other side somebody just wants to say that building the houses was a mistake. We destroyed everything. Wildlife’s going to die and it’s, I mean people have really strong feelings about it but to really get, to answer your questions it doesn’t get into that type of detail but I live right, well at the south end of the property there and a lot of my neighbors were the ones that have been very contentious if you want to say that about what’s going on. And I understand that. I mean their views have changed. They’ve lived there 15, 20, 25 years and all of a sudden things change like that. It’s hard to accept. I have a problem too just driving by and seeing where the new entrance is across from Hunter Drive and by Sugarbush Park, really close to where I turn into the subdivision but you know I look at this opportunity and everything and not everybody’s going to be in favor of everything but everybody’s going to be in favor of something. There aren’t as many people that I’ve seen that are opposed to it you know. Somebody wants their own flavor of this and their flavor of this and, but 90 plus percent of the people that I’ve talked to really, they’re enthused about it. It doesn’t take it6’s not a hard sell. th And I appreciate, how long is it til the 6 that the survey’s up? 38 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Kevin Clark: That would be through the end of this month. Boettcher: That’s to the end of the month, okay. And you got 400 and. Kevin Clark: 457 responses yep. Boettcher: 457 okay. Sweetser: Is there a certain number you were looking for, that you thought would be a good percentage? Kevin Clark: 457 is a, we feel pretty confident about that. And then even just looking at, you know I think when you guys got the packet published it was maybe at 330 or somewhere around there. Once you start getting into some of those numbers you can feel more confident in the trends. You know there may still be somebody that’s got a specific piece of input but you start to see kind of what are the things that are really important to people. What are the things that are less. Sweetser: I thought it was very interesting. I read through all the comments too that definitely we need to keep in mind a lot of different demographics and groups of people. You know seniors a couple people mentioned I know. People with disabilities you know which I’m sure is going to tend to lead to a little bit of a different, you know that’s going to help kind of at least some of the trails looking at what types of materials those are going to be made of but, so that was one thing that just really stuck out to me that we need to just keep that in mind. And then just I was amazed at all the snowshoe comments and you know kind of some of those activities that I don’t really go out that much in the winter to be honest but a lot of people do so I thought that kind of helped lead a little bit about what do you need to do in the winter. What do Todd’s folks need to do in the winter? Maybe not a lot. Those were just two things that kind of stuck out to me so. Boettcher: Yeah and the same thing on the comments. I mean I think over 90 percent want to keep it as natural as possible. You do have the difference between people that do want the aggregate versus the paved we know and mobility for people of a certain age group the paved is the only way to go but I think the whole thing, keeping everything natural. Nothing motorized in there. You know walking, riding a bike, whatever is really a big deal. Pemrick: I guess it would be nice after reading these comments, ideas starting triggering you know. If we do end up with, what’s the word I’m looking for? Like the different benches and look out points and what not, having some education on what are some birds that you may be seeing from this spot. You know because that I mean I think would be great for kids. It’d be great for adults. A lot of people are, what are the different types of trees that you’re looking at. I know when we went on our tour with you Todd I was, I know a little bit about trees and I learned a lot more that day from you and it was fun because you just get to learn about it and at the same 39 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 keeping as much nature as possible. And I think the other thing I kind of caught a lot of is, a lot of wildlife is getting displaced from this and you know really truly trying to ensure that they don’t get squeezed out more than they already are right now and I know at some of the Planning Commission meetings when before this sold I was listening, that was a common theme a lot of people were talking about was the turkeys and deer, the fox. I like seeing then. I want to keep seeing them in my back yard or you know I don’t want them all to leave the area so. Boettcher: Yeah. They’re eating my apples right now so they’re still there. My wife would let them in the house if they would come in. Tsuchiya: I was wondering, can we put down as an idea something to celebrate the long term planning that Chanhassen has had with this Lake Ann area? The phases that have gone through. You know when this whole concept started. I think you know there’s still the Gorra property to complete the entire circle around the park but I think there’s an opportunity here to really kind of plant the flag for the City and say you know this is a long term, very unique piece of property in the metro area that was long term planning was the, the culmination of all this long term planning created and preserved this space for the city and you’re not going to find this anywhere else so I think that’s something that we an explore. I don’t know if it’s something to put in one location or to spread out, you know kind of take a walk through the history or something like that but I think that this is, that’s something that could be really special in this area. Boettcher: So you’re wanting your name in lights specifically? Tsuchiya: No. Boettcher: Tsuchiya Bend in the trail there. Tsuchiya: No, that’s where people would fall down. Boettcher: Oh okay. This is significant. I mean there is no doubt about it. Hoffman: Both Commissioner Tsuchiya and Commissioner Pemrick were talking interpretative signage and that can be a package as a part of the study. Tsuchiya: And I don’t know if there’s also something that comes to mind, if there’s some sort of like, I can’t remember what, like Eagle Scout project or you know something like that that something maybe the City doesn’t have to do but you make opportunities for those scouts or, or the Girl Scout equivalent. I can’t recall. Hoffman: Gold Award. Tsuchiya: I’m sorry? 40 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Hoffman: Gold Award. Tsuchiya: Gold Award, thank you. You know be great to get youth involvement. Maybe youth commissioners eventually. Sweetser: I like the tree house idea too. That was a cute idea. Reminded me, have you guys ever seen the show that’s on one of the cable stations where they come in and build these huge tree houses but they, they’re just immense and gorgeous and. Tsuchiya: Sandy we had a budget conversation. Sweetser: No, yeah yeah yeah. No I’m talking about that company coming in and doing it. Boettcher: Looking at Meredith’s credit card… Petouvis: My limit is very low. Boettcher: We’ll buy one board at a time. Sweetser: We would make it look like Paisley Park. No, I’m kidding. Pemrick: Another thing I noticed on some of the comments is mountain bike trails. Are people actually mountain biking back there right now? Because some of them said that are currently there and I, okay. My personal opinion is to not do that. It will disturb a lot of things. Sweetser: There was just a big news story on tonight, I think it was on KARE 11. I didn’t get to see it. Yeah, exactly. That that is a challenge for them right now. Boettcher: What was it? Pemrick: Carver Park is building one aren’t they? Hoffman: Carver is yep. Boettcher: Three Rivers. It’s Three Rivers building it. Hoffman: Yeah…Carver Park is there. Sweetser: In Minnetonka they’re talking about building mountain bike trails. Hoffman: They approved it yeah. Sweetser: So and just the news story obviously is citizens that are up in arms about it. 41 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Hoffman: Yeah that’s been going on for 18 months, yeah. Sweetser: Yeah. Tsuchiya: And there’s been a real push on that. Pemrick: Another thing I walked back on Greenwood Park the other day and I kind of just hopped in to Riley Creek and I saw a lot of people kayaking through Riley Creek and I think it would be pretty critical to make sure whatever bridge is put there is high enough that people don’t have to portage. When it’s high enough for them to kayak through the creek. Petouvis: Going back sort of taking a tangent on the interpretative signage idea. One of, when I was interviewing to join the commission my opportunity that I saw for the City of Chanhassen is more focus on straight up nature play. Chanhassen does paved trails incredibly well. Chanhassen does the traditional metal, plastic playground very well but we’re seeing, you know research is showing and experience is showing that that true interaction directly with nature is so critical for health and wellness that it’s an opportunity for Chanhassen to take up and this area around Lake Ann is such a pristine, beautiful nature area that I don’t know, in my original concept that I had in my head was sort of like what the Arboretum does with their nature play right outside the learning center. Some area, maybe taking what would be a traditional plastic and pipe playground and turning it into more of a logs and rocks and sticks playground, but maybe there are other ways that we could, rather than doing a dedicated area of nature play maybe we can use this whole area through interpretative signage. Through scavenger hunts. Through you know whatever our brains can come up with to help kids and families really have that interaction with nature that’s not as easy anymore so. Boettcher: And I think that’s getting into our next discussion point too as part of the directive by the mayor where we said we would try to think out of the box. Meredith and I had discussed this after the City Council meeting. We were last month when they were doing their initial discussion on a park bond referendum and I believe I always get it wrong. Is it Murphy Hanrehan? The park with Carver County Park Commission we visited it I think 3 years ago and it’s exactly what you’re talking about. You park in the parking lot. There’s a big picnic shelter and right off to the side it looks like somebody just took a bunch of driftwood and rocks and stuff and threw it together. If you know what Ihduhapi is, the Eskimos or the, they have the thing where if you get this award it’s shaped like a bunch of rocks. They’re just stacked up. Doesn’t mean, doesn’t look pretty but it really means something to the Inuit people and you see this off to the side of the shelter and the kids will get out of the car. They’ll run to the shelter. They see this stuff piled up. It’s what it looks like, driftwood and they’re running down there and playing and they’re reorganizing stuff and we have a little bit of that in Norwood-Young America at Baylor Regional Park. As you walk through the trail you get to the back end. There’s like a couple of teepees and basically the kids just get in there and they make a teepee or do whatever 42 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 and it is, I mean it’s one of our directives was what can we do that is thinking out of the box and there’s no charge to it so we don’t need Meredith’s credit cards. Petouvis: No sponsors or anything needed. Boettcher: And in talking to a couple of the people, actually someone that used to be on the park commission here. He’s on the Carver County Park Commission with me now, he knows about the canopy. The cathedral and I was mentioning this natural play area and he said, you know this guy isn’t married. Doesn’t have kids he says well if you wanted something for kids put it there at the Cathedral. He says they’ll stay there all day long. I mean we all saw that on our walk back in May. I mean when Todd pointed it out but all of us, I think we all stopped at the same time and it’s like, have never seen this before. Just really some amazing opportunities of things that could be done there so. Petouvis: Just put benches in for the parents, that may be all we need to do. Sweetser: Move that natural playground idea though. That’s very cool. Petouvis: Yeah. Sweetser: Just, even just Goggling, you look up some, you know this looks like totally a tree that has just kind of fallen over but they’ve created you know, they call it creative of a thing but just really cool looking. Pemrick: Now if you just throw some sticks there kids will figure it out. We build those all the time in the woods when I was growing up. Sweetser: Oh yeah. Pemrick: As long as they have sticks to play with they’re happy. Petouvis: Well it’s true and if you think about most of the developments that are around we’ve taken away the access to the sticks and the big mature trees and, I mean my brother and I spent hour upon hour when we were kids. Even you know getting to be bigger kids you know 10-12. Underneath two big evergreens that we had and I mean that was anything from a fort, to a store, to a I don’t know, war games area. I mean the imagination is really just inspired by very minimal things and I think, I mean what great things could happen without much intervention from us. Boettcher: Oh now you’re taking everybody back too far. No my cousin and I in the front yard of mom and dad’s house we had 3 maple trees. Two soft maples and a hard maple…but the one soft maple, there were two tree limbs coming out and there was here and one was about 3 feet lower and that was the cockpit of a P-51 Mustang. I mean I even took a pencil out there and I 43 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 drew gauges. I guess that’s why I became an engineer. I had gauges and altimeter and air speed and he had, Jerry my cousin had the bomb sights down here which you know was not realistic on a P-51 but like I said if you had your imagination as a kid there’s no limit. Petouvis: Yeah and the imagination happens more with the more minimal you know, the less the adults can be involved in it, the better. Tsuchiya: We ruin everything. Petouvis: We do. Boettcher: I was just at a meeting, was it last week. Have you heard of No Child Left Inside? Hoffman: (Yes). Tsuchiya: Yeah. Boettcher: That’s, yeah it gets rid of these and put the kids outside and shut the door and don’t let them back in the house. Not quite to that extreme but I mean it’s getting back to that level. You know you see the memes, there’s one going around on Facebook where it shows a mom and her daughter sitting here and then another mom and her daughter sitting next to them and the mom and daughter when they laugh they both had their phones out and the other mom and daughter were both reading a book and the mom with the phone says how do you get your child to read a book? Well I don’t have this and I have a book so this same thing. Getting, because I see it. I mean in the neighborhood I live in there aren’t a lot of kids, for the first few years that we lived there I didn’t know that the one neighbor on my cul-de-sac had two kids because I never saw them. You know just on the rare chance you would timing you’d see them getting into a car out in the driveway but I knew they had a son and all of a sudden this girl started popping up and I’m like, and she was 12 and we’d been there for 4 years. I just, I mean yeah I was traveling a lot but you know when I was a kid you knew everybody within 2 miles of the house because you were always out every day but I think we have a lot of opportunities here though. We really do. It just takes imagination. You know anything you see in, putting trails in. Doing studies, whatever you know the stuff that Todd showed us. I think there’s so much we can do there and we can keep everything natural other than a paved trail. Everything else can be natural and probably should be. Petouvis: And can we do a mix of paved and unpaved trails that would you know paving to give that loop around Lake Ann but then perhaps everything else would be unpaved and more you know, keep your mulch down. Hoffman: So yep, and then something to think about is the paved trails get you there so there’s all these neighborhood trails that likely should be finished because you don’t want to switch materials. 44 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Petouvis: Yep. Hoffman: So and when you draw that, that completes most of the trail connections but there could be, there’s kind of a middle loop that could be unpaved and. Sweetser: And I think most, I shouldn’t say most, a lot of people will want to do the perimeter. They’re not going to want to you know the older folks, we’re not going to want to go inside. My kids are older so I’m not as interested in going on that adventure but I think that would make a lot of sense for people if you want to snowshoe you’re in the middle. Hoffman: Yep. Yeah design is one thing. Management of this public space, right now it’s not public so nobody can argue the dog walker’s off leash did not argue with the bikers because they’re both trespassing. Once it’s public you’re going to have to set some ground rules. Petouvis: Yeah and so what is the thought on what those ground rules would be? Is there a baseline sort of. Hoffman: Well you’ve been talking about some of them. You might not want biking. Off line biking. You know dogs right now are currently on leash on trails. And what’s the other big ones that were in here. Cross country skiing. I mean people ski off trails. We plow our trails when people want to use them in the winter and for walking and running and other things but you could, you know in the winter you could cross country ski or snowshoe anywhere. You’re not going to hurt the vegetation. Boettcher: Any other questions? Discussion? If not thank you. Kevin Clark: Thank you. Tsuchiya: Great presentation. Boettcher: Thank you very much. Hoffman: Kevin will be back next month so get to know him. Tsuchiya: See you then. Sweetser: Alright, thank you. Tsuchiya: Sounds good, look forward to it. Boettcher: Thank you. Appreciate it. So did that take care of the second half of the directive by the mayor? 45 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Petouvis: No, we thought outside the box. I don’t know a treehouse is pretty nice and outside the box. Sweetser: Hey just telling you. I’m just saying. Could make it look like Paisley Park. Petouvis: But brainstorming has no bad ideas right. Right. You just put them all down so. Sweetser: I just thought it was a fun comment of an idea. A couple people I think had it in there. Tsuchiya: I do like the natural play. I think you know. Petouvis: Yeah. Tsuchiya: Things are going to be composed so every once in a while haul some stuff in there somehow. Access is an issue but. Pemrick: I have at least one tree that falls in my yard a year. I can donate… Boettcher: I’ve got a black willow that loses branches every 3 mile an hour wind or higher so. Tsuchiya: No I’ve got a birch in my front yard that drops you know little stuff. That’s something to consider. Petouvis: But I’m sure Adam and his team take care of a lot of trees and branches and things so. Boettcher: Yep. Petouvis: And there are a lot that are already fallen in there that are great, you know if we have the trail access and we have you know natural resting spots assigned, kids can, I don’t know how much we have to bring in. Kids can find it and just by having access to it or maybe something like. Pemrick: They can create more than we can ever think of. Petouvis: Exactly. Exactly. Maybe we just have something to spur the idea of, maybe don’t just walk through here. You know I don’t know whether it is like I said a scavenger hunt or like you were saying. Do you see these kinds of birds as you look around or you know what does this cathedral area remind you of? What do you think of when you’re in the cathedral area? Just things to maybe get people on that path of enjoying and looking around. Not just being you know, I mean there’s a lot of value in being on the trail and just being out in the fresh air but just maybe the looking up and looking around. Maybe we can encourage that. 46 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Todd do you remember talking about scouting projects when Lauren Dale was a youth commissioner? What was her project that she completed? Hoffman: She did way finding signs. The one right there at Lake Ann that shows this so people are being educated by her project because many of the people that are going down to check out this area are seeing her project. Seeing the lines that go around the lake. So it’s called a way finding. Boettcher: Because that was her equivalent of an Eagle. Hoffman: That was her Gold Award yep. Boettcher: Gold Award yeah. Pemrick: So do you get requests regularly from Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts for something in the city? Hoffman: All the time. Pemrick: Okay. Boettcher: Yeah one of the first ones I remember was when Mayor Furlong was in office his son did the sign at the entrance of Lake Ann Park. Hoffman: Planted the plants, yep. Boettcher: Very good. Any more discussion on this? Do you want to get into the some of the phasing? I think Todd had already covered this about as the phases come in. You know we can’t do anything with the trails until we have both of the outlots and the second outlot doesn’t get turned over to the City until Phase 4. So until that’s done we really can’t, so this gives us a cushion of at least a couple of years as far as our fund. Where the money’s going to come from for the trail. Tsuchiya: So we can plan it but we can’t put shovel to dirt is what you’re saying? Boettcher: Yep. So until we get the second, and that was what 2022 probably Todd? Hoffman: That’s what they’re thinking. Phases 1, 2, 3, 4. This might be 20-21 and 22. We have this property now. We get this property in the future so there’s some time to get the plan. The urgency is down here at this boardwalk. As these people start to move in it would be nice to be complete with this boardwalk. 2020 or 2021 so this is in and completed and then you build the rest coming from this direction to meet up with it. 47 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Tsuchiya: For that boardwalk on the south you’re just saying build it and stub it out? Hoffman: Yep build it. Put your interpretative sign out there so everybody knows what’s coming in the future and then stop it, and that’s an important less that we’ve learned time and time again. If you allow all these people to move in and then you want to bring your construction equipment down there and start that process they might just be sitting in this row of chairs asking you not to do that. Petouvis: Are we segue waying into the potential referendum discussion? Boettcher: We do have a, we have a couple of items first. If we’re done with items I. J is commission member committee reports. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. Boettcher: Any discussion? We weren’t here last month. I did want to say a couple of the Town Ball game was very good. The Mayor was there. The former mayor was there. A couple of former park commission members. Todd was there. Jerry was there and really a pretty good turnout. The game wasn’t that great. Didn’t win the game but it was really a great turnout. I mean you see the enthusiasm of the people there and really at that level, I mean I used to be a really big baseball fan when I was growing up but even at that level you sit there and you listen to these guys pitch and you’re hearing that ball coming in, I mean this isn’t pee wee or Babe Ruth league. I mean these guys are slinging it. I mean it’s like national or American league stuff coming in. It’s pretty impressive and to see the city, you know and then people were coming because it was what, the Minnetonka Millers is what they’re called? People from Minnetonka. Two couples that I knew were there too so, and I think we had kind of somebody here that was routing for the other team but. Is what I was told. Hoffman: Kate. Boettcher: Is what I was told. Hoffman: No, no. Ruegemer: Yeah not me. Boettcher: Oh okay. Alright. Someone else from the City told me that. Hoffman: Kate lives in, Kate’s a Minnetonka Miller. Her husband. Boettcher: That’s what it was, okay. I got Jerry in there. And then the other item was earlier this month was National Night Out or whatever it’s been renamed to. 48 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Hoffman: Night to Unite. Boettcher: And I think this was my third year so it’s really great. It’s so exciting every year that I actually get to ride in the front of a police car. Versus the back. Like Karl’s used to the view from the back of the car I know but to actually see it from the front. But to get out and visit, I think we went to at least 4. Four different neighborhoods and the people are just so enthused. They want to see the officer. They don’t want to see me but I’m just along for his moral support but to see all these people out there, I mean the way everyone is connected. Especially down on, th is it Mission Hills? 86 Street down there. You know it’s mostly all senior citizens but I think they’re still eating the food. They had 20 people and enough food for 400 and they kept saying you boys need to eat. Well yeah but anyone that hasn’t done it, I mean it’s great just to get out there. The first one we went to actually, the fire truck was just leaving when we pulled up and then the mounted posse was just leaving too and then we showed up so these people got the full gamut of everything you know. Some of them just got an officer. Some just got a fire truck. Some just got the mounted posse but how many did we, was it 55? Hoffman: 44 this year. Boettcher: It was 44 okay. But that was pretty impressive. I mean the people just enjoy having somebody to come and talk, and I did my part as Chair of the commission. I was pushing, I said if by chance on the ballot within the next 3 years you see a referendum for a park. To complete a trails and Bandimere and all I said just check the box that says yes and everything will be fine and dandy. We’ll take care of the rest. So I don’t know how much that’s going to help whatever but a lot of fun. Anyone that hasn’t done it I recommend it. Really do. It’s really enjoyable. Sweetser: I have one last thing. With school starting back the junior commissioners. Is there something that we need to be doing or, I can’t remember where we left that with kind of recruiting some kids. Boettcher: Someone had made the recommendation or that was going to put the word out with one of the schools. Scanlon: Yeah I’ve got a cousin in the high school. She’s constantly looking for people. Boettcher: In Chanhassen? Scanlon: Yep. She recruiting and I had told her that anybody contact me if they’re interested and I’ll remind her again as the school year starts here too. Sweetser: I may be, I could probably send a note to social studies or looking up somebody that’s a contact with that program. You know one of the teachers. I have a sophomore. My daughter’s a sophomore there just to see if there’s you know any kids through AP classes. Things like that so I’ll do that as well. 49 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: Okay. Yeah because we’ve had 2 at a time. We’ve had 1 at a time. I think is it 4 total we’ve had or 5? Hoffman: In total probably 5. Boettcher: Probably 5 of them. Hoffman: And before that many more because this was a program that was around 10 to 15 years ago for a long time as well. Boettcher: Oh okay. I thought Mayor Furlong just started it 6 or 7. Hoffman: Started it again. Boettcher: Oh again. He reignited it, okay. Any other member presentations? DISCUSSION ON POSSIBLE FUTURE PARK AND RECREATION IMPROVEMENT BOND REFERENDUM. Boettcher: If not K(1), discussion on possible future park and recreation improvement bond referendum. Hoffman: Chair Boettcher your bylaws would say that you would want to table this. Your bylaws and your bed laws. Your bedtimes. Boettcher: That will work. Hoffman: Based on time. That’s up to you of course. Until September. Boettcher: Wow. 2 1/2 hours already. Tsuchiya: So moved. Petouvis: Is there any downside to tabling that? Tsuchiya: I think we have plenty of time don’t we? Boettcher: We do. Petouvis: Yes at this point. Tsuchiya: Okay. 50 Park and Recreation Commission Summary – August 27, 2019 Boettcher: With that, administrative packet anything? Hoffman: Motion to table. Boettcher: Alright. How about adjournment? Tsuchiya: Motion to table. I move that we table that discussion til next month. Petouvis: Second. Tsuchiya moved, Petouvis seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission table the discussion on possible future park and recreation improvement bond referendum to the September meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. None. Petouvis moved, Pemrick seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned at 9:55 p.m. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 51