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PRC 2019 09 24 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 24, 2019 Chairman Boettcher called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Boettcher, Meredith Petouvis, Joe Scanlon, Karl Tsuchiya, Matt Kutz, Sandy Sweetser, and Haley Pemrick STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; Adam Beers, Park Superintendent; Jodi Sarles, Recreation Center Manager; and Mary Blazanin, Senior Center Coordinator PUBLIC PRESENT: Ann Miller APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Tsuchiya moved, Petouvis seconded to approve the agenda as proposed. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Boettcher: Public announcements. Anything Todd, Jerry? Ruegemer: No. Boettcher: We have a plethora of people over here. Senior center. Adam, Jodi. We’ll get all your’s later. Okay. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Boettcher: I see nothing from the public at this point in time. Approval of Minutes. Anyone have any changes, deletions. Commissioners Petouvis and Sweetser were you? Sweetser: Nothing. Boettcher: First time in 4 months… That was she said she said. Alright seeing no changes motion to approve. Tsuchiya: So moved. Boettcher: Second. Pemrick: Second. Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Tsuchiya moved, Pemrick seconded to approve the verbatim and summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated August 27, 2019 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. 2019 LAKE ANN PARK CONCESSION/BOAT RENTAL EVALUATION. Boettcher: We’re already up to new business. Item G-1, Lake Ann Park concession/boat rental evaluations and I believe Jerry this is you. Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Boettcher, good evening the rest of the Park and Rec commissioners. I will go through the 2019 Lake Ann Park concession and boat rental evaluation so great, we’re very fortunate to have Lake Ann Park and is one of our community parks out there. We have a lot of different activities going on out there for concessions and boat rentals remain popular. Up there just a quick snapshot of where we were for our watercraft revenue and food sales revenue so we did take in over $29,000 for revenue. As per our agreement that we mentioned down below here, a little bit more with Twin Cities Paddleboards. We do owe them 30 percent of the revenue for the paddleboards and with that so that would be their payment for the 2019 and then add in sales tax so total revenue is just over $24,200 for that so again with our agreement that we have with Twin Cities Paddleboards, that’s been a great partnership. Jeff Geffen with Twin Cities Paddleboards loves the arrangement that we have with that. That we supply basically the labor to rent the paddleboats out there. They’re extremely popular out there so we were down a little bit this year just because of the, kind of the rainy weather and stuff that we’ve had. Now it’s kind of across the board with boat rentals but we still had a pretty strong year for that so Jeff has indicated that he would like to continue our relationship into 2020 so he’s happy with the arrangement and we certainly are too with our contract that we have through them so just general comments. We still continue to do the, kind of the staff crossover kind of in the middle shifts so we have kind of overlaps so people, when during kind of our busy times during the weekend we’ll have 2 people working to assist with customer service with that to get people through the lines quicker. Get the boats rented faster and just really be aware of our customer’s out at Lake Ann. We want them to have a good experience with that. Just a lot of different things. We tried, you know always try new beverage choices. We tried bottled ice tea this year and it was not a real big hit which I was a little surprised about but we’ll try different things again next year. The SpongeBob ice cream bars were the all time favorite out there so they did pretty good with that. We will purchase a two person kayak out there. We get a lot of requests for that this year so I did secure some funding from our finance department for 2020 for next summer so that will be introduced into the fleet of boats out there and then of course our trolling motors are pretty popular with the fishing boats out there so we’ll always look to get a new trolling motor kind of in operation. We seem to have issues with kind of broken tabs with the tilt switches and different things like that but Adam and his crew are extremely you know on the spot when it comes to, if there’s a broken paddleboat or a trolling motor type of thing so they’re very good at repairing. Very quickly get on the fly and to get the boats back in service again so just kind of a page 2 is just kind of a quick snapshot of last year and this year as it 2 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 comes to the boat rentals. Total revenue expenditures as it relates to hours and wages and then kind of our vendor costs as it comes to with what we have to purchase to supply to sell out at Lake Ann so also then done after expenses we did still make over $7,000 out there for the summer which that which wasn’t too bad with the weather and that that we had this year but, and then just kind of a vending expenses on the next page and then the total boat rentals by kind of on a daily basis from Memorial Day weekend until we closed in August. Boettcher: Any questions for Jerry? Tsuchiya: Jerry you’re noticing or any trends emerging about you know, I like that you guys are trying new foods and I realize there are constraints upon what you guys can stock there but are you guys noticing any trends over the last couple years of categories of items that are more popular? I know you’re trying like the ice tea and that was surprising. Ruegemer: Tried ice tea. We’re going to continue to try different you know probably get into more of the carbonized waters type of thing. They seemed to be pretty popular with that. Like LaCroix. I was going to say White Clouds but those are…but we’ll try some of those type of things and it seemed like a lot of the healthier stuff that we’ve had really doesn’t seem to sell but we’ll keep taking a look at that. You know and like you said Karl we are kind of limited for counter space out there as to what we can do. We have a Department of Ag license so we’re a little bit limited as to what we can serve. It has to be more kind of pre-packaged items so we’re always looking to kind of streamline and kind of get product out to the customers as quick as we can but we’ll continue to look for that. Tsuchiya: Do you have any idea of the average type of customer? Are you seeing individual like teenagers? Are you seeing a lot of families with young kids? Is it all over the area? Ruegemer: It’s kind of all over but I’d say a lot of families that are down there. One thing we certainly want to, we’ve had discussions about with our finance department is having type of a square or a credit card type of payment down there where people are you know renting out 5-6 paddleboards at a time at $16 bucks a piece a lot of people don’t have a checkbook or cash to take care of that so I think we’re getting to that point where it’s a little bit more readily accessible to there. We do have potential hot spot options to run something like that so that’s something that staff will take a look at. Tsuchiya: I like that idea. Thank you. Kutz: I have a question. The concession stand between the softball fields and baseball fields, is that included in the concession numbers in the presentation? Ruegemer: That is not. This would just be the beach concession stand closer to, kind of by the turnaround area by the rental docks so. 3 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Kutz: Could you talk about that concession stand? Is that for rent for like boy scouts or somebody like that or how do they, how does that get staffed? Ruegemer: About the only thing it gets staffed at these days is through these weekend tournaments. We tried through the course of time years ago to operate it on a kind of seasonal basis. The City did but CAA did to try to offer concessions throughout the course of the year on a nightly basis so I think they had trouble with volunteers and just kind of staffing it so it was about a 1 or 2 year run and that was that but I’d say for the most part it’s just on the weekend tournaments. Kutz: Gotch ya, thanks. Boettcher: Any other discussion? Hoffman: One trend for sure you’re going to see at the Lake Ann concession stand is during Lake Ann Adventure week you’re guaranteed you’re going to sell $300 worth of Lolli suckers and about $500 bucks worth of Powerade. 75 kids that buys those things daily by the dozen. Ruegemer: A quarter a piece. They are popular. That we account for. Boettcher: Alright, thank you Jerry. Another great year out there it looks like. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Boettcher: Looks like we do have a visitor that showed up. If you want to do, introduce yourself. Name and address for the record and reason for your visit. Ann Miller: I was stopped coming in the back way by the police because I didn’t have my lights on. He was very kind, yes. Oh dear. My new car. So much for that. My name is Ann Miller, 6561 Fox Path, Chanhassen. I’m here tonight because I’ve requested public boat access to Silver Lake from Pleasant View Road as that land is, the southern tip there is owned by the City. In light of reconstruction of Pleasant View Road and asking for a safer bike path and walkway on Pleasant View Road and also in doing that there’s a Minnesota law, Statute Section 103G.235 that says we can have, we have that right to have the public access on Silver Lake. I guess I have a couple questions and I don’t know if anyone here can answer them but I went to the Riley- Purgatory meeting last, a couple weeks ago. Did you get that letter to them Todd? Everyone here or not that I emailed so everyone knows what I’m talking about, okay. And so that’s what picked my interest was going to that meeting and finding out the source of the phosphate. I’ve lived here since 1992 and I’m well aware of the water issues in the area. I guess in having a public access there I know Silver Lake is small. It’s only 18 acres. However the depth appears to be the same depth in some places as Lotus. I learned, these are just some things that I’ve already learned is, and that was something that was passed out in 1995 in spring and I wish this could be repeated because it kind of explains things very simply for the public. But at any rate 4 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 and you can look at that although I’d like it back. But it just talks about phosphorus and ground water. I have the ground water protection plan from 1995. I have all my grading and soil borings. This is only one-third of the information I have in my own area and I just think that having public access there would really enhance our neighborhood for walkability and riding. I’m not sure about Silver Lake. I have questions about it. I understand that it lays, it’s 18 acres. I guess I’d like to know is there any flow of water speed in that area? I understand from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency that there is some sort of tributary that comes out of there but I understand that too that the Purgatory Creek source is Lotus Lake and I guess I would like to know has anybody seen water being fed into Lotus Lake? Where that exactly is? Purgatory Creek where it starts in Lotus Lake. Does anyone here know? And/or if you don’t I guess I would like to know where that is. I’m sure there must be a homeowner or someone that knows where the water comes out of the ground into Lotus Lake and I don’t believe it would be under water but I would just like to know that source. I’d also like to know the source of water for Silver Lake. Is it a spring? I have no idea. And also it just seems when I look at the difference between Christmas, Silver and Lotus the significant differences at least between Christmas and the other two is depth obviously but the other two as far as having poor water, you know water quality with, and you guys know what the phosphorus levels are etcetera, Silver and Lotus are not that far apart. Lotus Lake has been from 1970to 2018 it virtually has kind of unchanged statistically which is kind of amazing so then I’m wondering, I don’t know what the City as done for Lotus Lake as far as I guess I do know some things along the park but I mean has the return on that investment paid off because I learned too that it takes about 10 years of data collection by volunteers and then you guys have data, data, data, data and someone has to interpret it so I guess I have all those questions. I do think if there can’t be motorized craft on Silver Lake, and I don’t know why there couldn’t be but then I would ask for non-motorized. Canoe, paddleboards, things like that. And as you’re aware in 1986 30 to 50 tons of mud went into Lotus Lake from the 100 year rainfall that year so I’m wondering too maybe Silver Lake should be dredged. There are aerators. There are many different ways of making water clean and I don’t know, I know from the satellite picture that I saw of Silver Lake there are 7 docks on that lake. So that’s what I’m proposing. Now what? Boettcher: Well the only thing we could, any of the water quality issues would be watershed district related. Ann Miller: Yes. And the Riley watershed district proposed catching Powers Boulevard water that runs down Pleasant View, a huge hill, into Silver Lake. Boettcher: Right. Because our organization here we’re parks and rec so we have nothing to do with water quality or. Ann Miller: Okay so I’ve been at the, I’ve been at that meeting so they. Boettcher: So we can’t. We wouldn’t. 5 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ann Miller: I’d propose the same thing, okay. Boettcher: We wouldn’t be able to address any of that. Ann Miller: Okay. Boettcher: What is the, you live in the vicinity? You live on the lake? Where’s your? Ann Miller: I do not live on the lake. I live at 6561 Fox Path. Boettcher: Right I’m looking at a map here. I don’t see which. So are you across the street from someone that does live on the lake? Ann Miller: No. Boettcher: You’re just in the neighborhood? Ann Miller: Right. Boettcher: Okay. Ann Miller: My access on Fox Path is Pleasant View period. Boettcher: Okay. Ann Miller: Above my house, I live in the big ditch as Mr. Cunningham would say. He’s now deceased but above me is the Van Eeckhout pond. Holding pond for that area and those sides are very steep there. Boettcher: I guess the biggest concern here number one is you’re talking about the south end like the portion that is in Chanhassen. That is natural preserve and based on the City’s comp plan the 800 acres that we have as a natural preserve by definition means we keep them natural. Ann Miller: Yes. Boettcher: So any modification, a ramp, parking lot access. Ann Miller: What about the Minnesota Statute that we have rights to public access? Boettcher: Which one over is which I don’t know. Ann Miller: Pardon me? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Boettcher: But according to the City’s plan these natural preserves stay in their natural state. Ann Miller: So you’re not going to follow the law? The Minnesota State law? Boettcher: It’s the City’s law. Ann Miller: So which takes priority? Boettcher: I don’t know. You tell me. I don’t know if that’s. Ann Miller: Are there any lawyers here? Boettcher: That’s the way the comp plan is set up for the City. There’s nothing in the City’s, the park, what it’s called the Parks Master Plan. Hoffman: Correct. Boettcher: We just completed 2 years ago there was, there was nothing in there regarding this. There’s nothing in the City’s comp plan and then the problem is because it’s a preserve making that change. Ann Miller: Would be what? Boettcher: I don’t know. I don’t know that we can. Ann Miller: I say. Petouvis: Can I chime in with a question? Ann Miller: Yes. Petouvis: Let’s talk about what exactly constitutes public access to a lake. Does that mean we have a dock? We have a boat ramp? Or does that simply mean that people in the public can walk up to the lake and enjoy the lake as one of our natural resources? Ann Miller: Is it, I don’t know how to pronounce the word. Is it r-i-p-a-r-i-a-n, is it riparian or riparian? Boettcher: Riparian. Ann Miller: We have riparian rights to that area. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Hoffman: Sure any member of the public can walk up there right now and walk to the edge of the lake. Ann Miller: So does that constitute public access? Not it does not because there are things in that area, no it doesn’t. That need to be cleaned up. That are unsafe. Sweetser: So what does the, excuse me but what does the public access have to do with the clean up? I’m sorry. I’m confusing the, I’m sorry it’s me. I’m confusing those two issues. Ann Miller: Well first number one we should, it’s Minnesota Statute Section 103G.235. A public road abutting a body of water gives the public riparian rights to water whether or not the lake is navigable. Okay. And then there is a SUVD, I’m thinking that stands for subdivision. I’m not sure. Point 15 that says public waters means water basins where there is publicly owned and controlled access that is intended to provide public access to the water basin. So that’s what I’m asking for. It’s a Minnesota law. Kutz: But it sounds like you do have public access to the lake. We just don’t have a ramp to it. Like you could go through the preserve right to the lake without anybody stopping you from doing so, so that is what you’re. Ann Miller: I couldn’t do it safely right now because of what’s down in there. Kutz: Okay. Ann Miller: And you have to make that safe. Sweetser: How about the docks that are out, you know I think 7 docks. Ann Miller: Seven owned by private people. It’s from the satellite picture I can see that there are 7 docks. So what is the, I guess I’m asking, and I won’t, I’ll be, you know I’m going to, who else do I go to to ask? Or get my questions answered. Tsuchiya: Ann what was the Section again? 103G what? Ann Miller: .235. Tsuchiya: 235. Ann Miller: 103G.235 yeah. Minnesota Statute. Tsuchiya: 103G.235 correct? Ann Miller: Correct. 8 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Tsuchiya: Restrictions on access to wetlands. Ann Miller: I’m looking at it as well. Tsuchiya: Subsection one says that the public health or safety local units of government may by ordinance restrict public access to public waters, wetlands from municipality, county or township roads that abut public water wetlands. Subsection 2, private restored or created wetlands. I guess I fail to see how, unless we have the wrong subsection. Ann Miller: Unless you have the wrong one, right. I just know that we have riparian rights to water, whether or not the lake is navigable. Tsuchiya: Okay so what do riparian rights mean? Ann Miller: That the public, all of us, you don’t have to be a landowner. Tsuchiya: Yes. Ann Miller: Have rights to use that lake. Tsuchiya: Right to what? Right to us it how? Ann Miller: Recreationally. Tsuchiya: Okay. I guess I’m unclear how. Ann Miller: And that includes, that includes wetlands too. Tsuchiya: I understand that but I’m unclear how your interpretation of the statutes applies to this situation. I’m unclear exactly what you’re asking and if what you’re asking is within statutory law and case law on this matter, and I guess we’re not going to answer that tonight. Ann Miller: Okay. Tsuchiya: That’s going to take somebody to look into it. Ann Miller: Okay. Tsuchiya: And whether that be staff or that be the City Attorney. Ann Miller: Okay. 9 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Tsuchiya: We’re going to have to get a legal opinion of some kind. Ann Miller: Okay. Tsuchiya: On what you’re asking here because we’re not going to answer that for you here tonight. Ann Miller: Okay fair enough. Tsuchiya: Okay. I would say while I am an attorney I’m not acting as an attorney right now so I’m not going to venture any kind of legal opinion on this. Ann Miller: Okay. But you all would agree that Silver Lake is a designated lake. Tsuchiya: I do not because I don’t know what a designated lake is. I want to start at the very foundation and work my way up. I take nothing for granted. Ann Miller: Okay. Oh okay. Tsuchiya: So what is a lake? Define a lake. Does Silver Lake qualify as a lake? Ann Miller: Yes it does. Tsuchiya: And we establish that then what’s the next step. Ann Miller: It is a lake. Tsuchiya: Well you say it is but you know I want to make sure I go through the full analysis and I would ask whoever renders a legal opinion on this to go to the full analysis to say is there merit to what you’re asking and if there is merit then based upon Silver Lake being 10 percent or so in Chanhassen and 90 percent or so in, is it Shorewood? Boettcher: Shorewood. Tsuchiya: Shorewood, Ann Miller: Correct. Tsuchiya: We have a joint jurisdictional issue here. Ann Miller: It doesn’t matter. The animals and the public, it doesn’t matter. Tsuchiya: The animals? 10 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ann Miller: Yeah the animals they don’t know where the county lines are or anything. Tsuchiya: But the animals aren’t asking for riparian rights. Ann Miller: They cross back and forth, no but the public, we do have riparian rights. Tsuchiya: Oh I understand that so I’m just wondering because we’re dealing with a lake that is across city boundaries we have two different governmental organizations that have different proportionate jurisdiction over the lake so we need to coordinate with the other city. Ann Miller: Right. Tsuchiya: To say okay, do we need to public access in there and if so who would need to do it. Ann Miller: I have, I have notified them yes. Tsuchiya: Well I understand that but that’s going to. Ann Miller: About my request. Tsuchiya: Well I understand that but my point is, it’s a matter of coordination with the other city. Ann Miller: I totally agree yeah. Tsuchiya: You know do we have an obligation to do this? And if so how does that obligation fall on each municipality? Ann Miller: I think you do have an obligation. Tsuchiya: Well I understand that’s your position but. Boettcher: But as Karl’s saying what we think doesn’t matter. We need a legal opinion. Ann Miller: Okay, alright. Boettcher: Because every one of us in here will interpret it differently. We can’t go on that. We have to have the exact definition. Ann Miller: Okay. 11 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Boettcher: Again with authority you know which city, 90 percent versus 10 percent that makes it pretty easy. Ann Miller: What makes it pretty easy? Tsuchiya: But we’re not just dealing with two cities. Boettcher: Right. Tsuchiya: We’re dealing with a lot of different jurisdictional bodies. The watershed district. Ann Miller: Yes I know. The Van Eeckhout that sits right above me, that watershed was, because that water drains towards us I believe my information is correct, that they had to get permission from Riley-Purgatory to, Minnehaha Creek had to get permission to send the water our way but I think there’s also a rule, somewhere I read and I could be wrong, that wherever the water drains to that’s the watershed district that is in charge. Tsuchiya: Okay. Ann Miller: And the water that comes down Pleasant View runs into. Sweetser: The location that you’re talking about who owns that property? Ann Miller: The City of Chanhassen. Sweetser: So it is, it’s not a private. Ann Miller: No it is not. Sweetser: Okay. Because I believe riparian rights probably are based on owners of, if an owner owns that property then they have, I think that’s kind of a. Ann Miller: It’s a public road and it’s public property. Petouvis: Let me read, this is from the Cornell Law School so a source I trust, just a brief blurb on riparian doctrine. In dealing with water rights the riparian doctrine states that water belongs to the person who’s land borders the body of water. Riparian owners are permitted to make reasonable use of this water provided it does not unreasonably interfere with the reasonable use of this water by others with riparian rights. So and I’m on the Department of Natural Resources, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources what are riparian rights. Riparian rights are property rights arising from owning the shoreland so the City to me has the riparian rights of that particular property. Using your terms. 12 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ann Miller: And I live in the city. Petouvis: Well and I think the question extends you know the question extends from here does the City have an obligation to clear that land in any way that has been designated by the City as preserve area and does the City have an obligation to provide watercraft access in the portion of that lake, the very small percentage of that lake that is within the city of Chanhassen? Do we have any legal obligation? Ann Miller: It’s a lake. I can get on any lake in this state. Petouvis: Well I know but you’re suggesting that we have a legal obligation as the City of Chanhassen which I do believe is outside the bounds of our commission but we need to understand as a commission, as the City do we in fact have these legal obligations. So Todd. Hoffman: I’ll be happy to offer some input and then start to answer some of Mrs. Miller’s questions. Petouvis: Thank you. Hoffman: So the City has no obligation, legal or otherwise to provide a public access to Silver Lake on land owned by the City of Chanhassen. That would be something that would be a choice. A decision that the City would make on behalf of the public but it has no obligation to provide that by State law. Ann Miller: Does the State have an obligation? Hoffman: No. Ann Miller: No, okay. Hoffman: No. Silver Lake is 71 acres in size. It’s average depth is about 5 feet and it’s max depth is about 14 feet. Purgatory Creek is the outflow to Lotus Lake and it outflows underneath Highway 41, or excuse me Highway 101 about half way down the lake so about. Ann Miller: Wait say that again, Purgatory Creek is an outflow? Hoffman: Of Lotus Lake. It leaves on the east side of the lake underneath Highway 101. Ann Miller: Okay. Right near where that little walkout is when you’re on the path? Hoffman: A little south of that. So you’ll see there’s a weir structure in there on the outflow. It’s a pretty significant creek that leaves there and then the inflow, go ahead. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ann Miller: When you say significant creek you mean constant flow or water running or? Hoffman: (Yes). And then inflow is a variety. So watershed, Lotus Lake has a large watershed as does Silver Lake. I think Silver Lake has a 700 acre watershed and all the water from that watershed gets to that lake via some form. Either storm sewer or creek running directly off, so there’s a lot of different sources of inflow into both of these water bodies. So I think that answered some of the questions I heard. Regarding the trail or sidewalk on Pleasant View, oh many years ago Pleasant View had a line on it that would designate a trail or a sidewalk on the City’s Comprehensive Plan. If you drive that road or stayed on that road at all you know there’s no room there to create a trail or sidewalk. There might be a few exceptions. A few short segments where you could do that but you could not physically build a trail or sidewalk that would meet the standards that would be required to guarantee the safety of the public on that trail or sidewalk and so that line has been removed and there is no, there’s no plans by the City to grade a public trail or sidewalk on Pleasant View from east to west. Ann Miller: That is very sad. That is very sad. And so then my, I guess my response to that would be then from Peaceful Lane out to North Lotus Park make Pleasant View a one lane road. A one way road so that the public can have a place to walk and ride their bikes. Hoffman: Well that’s the decision of the park board. Ann Miller: Okay. But it’s a thought. So when the reconstruction of Pleasant View is done there’s, you’re saying there is no give as far as having a sidewalk and/or a path for bikes or safety. Hoffman: Pleasant View is currently scheduled for 2025 or beyond for a reconstruction and again based on the comp plan there would be no trail included. I can’t tell you what the decision would be at that time. If there would be any small segments. You know we live in a world that has a variety of different circumstances. Pleasant View Road was to be Crosstown back in the mid 60’s. Mid 1960’s so when Crosstown was constructed it would have continued on right behind oh kind of what they call the summit up in that area and then down along Pleasant View Road, all the way down Lake Lucy Road and stop at State Highway 41. That would have Crosstown. Obviously that would have changed the environment of that area. The City Council in 1965 said to the State of Minnesota we’re not interested in your road. They blocked that road, at that time they said we like Pleasant View Road just the way it is. We’re not going to make any improvements to it and so what you see today for Pleasant View was submitted by a City Council that sat in this, well a different building in 1965 in 1965 but sat in a different building and said we’re not going to make improvements to Pleasant View Road. We like it the way it is and we’re not going to change the neighborhood. To create a trail or a sidewalk you would have to take people’s driveways are already tight. You would have to take a lot of people’s front yards. A lot of their landscaping. A lot of the retaining walls. It would change the character significantly to try to even attempt that kind of public improvement and you’re simply not going to get public support to make that happen. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ann Miller: Well I disagree with that summation but if that is your final decision and the future then I guess my request for public boat access and on that piece of property is even more important since you’re saying that there is no way we can have a path. So where do we go from here? Because I’m going, I’ve already sent the letter out to all the houses in my neighborhood and I will further investigate. I guess I will be calling the DNR people. I mean you will too but we do, it is a designated lake and we do have rights to have a public boat landing there. A safe one and a dock. Thanks for listening. Boettcher: Alright, thank you. Kutz: Thanks for your presentation. OLD BUSINESS. Boettcher: Alright next item we’re up to H, old business. Anything Todd from the last meeting? Hoffman: No none thank you. Petouvis: May I ask quickly for an update on the Arboretum trail? Is there any update on estimates, plans, engineering reports for the Arboretum trail? Hoffman: The Arboretum trail is, the bid date was extended so it was to be bid on September th 24 and so the project is, continues to be held up by the State of Minnesota permitting and some of the design work. Some of the wetland work so Marty continues to let me know when it’s being postponed and bidding dates are being postponed. So that’s the only update I have. Petouvis: Thank you. REPORT: PARK MAINTENANCE QUARTERLY UPDATE. Boettcher Alright next item into Section I for reports. Number one, park maintenance quarterly report. I believe that would be Adam Beers. Beers: Thank you Chair Boettcher and commissioners. I’m here to provide just a brief update and kind of highlight some of the things staff has been working on over the last quarter. As part of the CIP in 2019 we, as a recommendation from you guys did some work on some tennis courts at the Chanhassen Rec Center, Lake Susan Park and South Lotus Lake Park. The Chanhassen Rec Center was completely milled and overlaid because it was beyond any sort of repair that we could have done. Lake Susan Park and South Lotus Park were still in decent enough shape we could crack fill. Put a product on called Petromat and then a small overlay so that work is now completed and the courts are open for play. As a part of the park equipment replacement schedule, which is we’re in the first year of. We did some work at Sunset Ridge 15 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Park, Herman Field Park and Prairie Knoll Park which includes all new playgrounds and playground borders. And we are finally kind of rounding the corner at Prairie Knoll Park. The playground is in. The concrete sidewalks are in. All the drainage material is in and we’re hoping to get the engineered wood fiber in at the end of this week. Next week we’ll follow up with the restoration and get that opened up for public use so the other two that we’ve already completed and restored, I received a warm welcome from the neighborhoods. We’ve gotten a ton of great response on Facebook and social media. I’m sure you guys have probably seen that a little bit so it’s been a good project. We’re looking forward to wrapping it up. As far as some just routine maintenance. Things that are going on right now. As part of the fall program we go around to each of our sports complexes, soccer fields and baseball fields, lacrosse fields and apply our fall fertilizer so that’s going on right now. Each year we take out a certain, a specific soccer field to kind of provide a little more cultural practices to it. Aerification. Over seeding. Just to give it a break so Bandimere Number One was selected this fall to take out of our routine so just to give it a rest so we’re aerified. Over seeded and we’ll continue just to kind of baby that through the fall and then it will be ready for use in the spring. Each fall staff goes around and we try to address as many trail segments as we can with pruning just to kind of help make room for our plowing equipment, tree health. Just to kind of take the time to move through and prune so it’s safe for walking and residents to use so we’re just about finished with running through most of our plowing sections right now. And with all of our outdoor facilities coming to an end we, it’s kind of a long process with blowing out the buildings. Shutting down Jerry’s buildings and concession stands and we typically come in and do some upkeep, painting and any repair work. Didn’t mean to throw you under the bus there. So that usually starts in September. Goes to November so we’re kind of we’re approaching that shut down mode right now and we’ll kind of work our way into the winter. Tsuchiya: Jerry’s buildings take that long? Beers: Ah there’s some things to be done. Tsuchiya: Okay. Beers: So that’s kind of where we’ve been working on. I’d like to kind of just let you guys know and a little nod to our seasonal staff, we have, we’re down to our last 4 right now and it’s just the retired guys that kind of help us out with the mowing so just so you guys are aware of how important and critical they are. You know we have 16 to 17 college kids, high school kids that come onboard just to help do a lot of the daily maintenance things. The mowing. The trash collection. The weed whipping. Just a lot of the stuff, the bathroom cleaning that you know nobody really notices but until it doesn’t get done so, and they’re a huge, huge help to our success and so I just wanted you guys to be aware of how important they are and how much we value them as a resource so just wanted to let you guys know that and we are working our way down to the last few that will take us into the fall so that’s what I got. Boettcher: Okay. On the tennis court refurbish is that as needed or is there a schedule? 16 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Beers: No, there is definitely a schedule. Boettcher: What 4-5 years? 7 years? Beers: God you have that going out to 2050? Hoffman: Yeah so about 7 years on an overlay and 15 years on a refurbishment. Beers: Oh yeah sorry. Boettcher: They always look good even though we used to have a commissioner said no one used them. Beers: No? They are definitely being used. Boettcher: I do see people on them all the time so. Any other questions for Adam? If not thank you Adam. You keep the city looking good. 2019 HALLOWEEN PARTY PREVIEW. Boettcher: Alright next item, Halloween party preview and Jerry I believe this is you. th Ruegemer: Thanks again Chair Boettcher. Our 35 Annual Halloween Party will be held th Saturday, October 26 out at the Chanhassen Recreation Center from 5:30 until 7:30 out there. The annual event is open to children ages 12 and under so they’re certainly welcome to come out there and we have a variety of trick and treating options for the kids. We have a limited spooky rooms that people can go through and gather some additional candy and that sort of thing. We have treats available. We have carnival games. Jumping houses, that sort of thing in the school. Bluff Creek Elementary School gym for that so it’s with another performance by Brian Richards this year so that will be at 6:30 so we just do one performance now for that. Flyers are ready to th go and getting copied as we speak here for the October 10 edition of the Villager so we’ll do an insert in there for people in our community so they kind of get the word out. We’ll do some tweets on Twitter and some Facebook posts and that sort of thing as well for that so. I did get all the link for the sign up for the volunteers out to the local high schools. That went to Minnetonka High School, Chaska High School and Chan High School and then we’ll also get that out to our teen volunteers as well. The links is also available on our Halloween page on our community events page on our city web page so if any of the commissioners would like to volunteer for the event please let me know. I can get you signed up for that and we can get you a costume if you need a costume as well so I will send out another email reminder asking commissioners if they would like to volunteer that night. If you do please let me know. Hoffman: Or bring your own. 17 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Ruegemer: Or bring your own. Boettcher: We have a former Commissioner that used, was it Mr. Incredible? Ruegemer: Mr. Incredible. Boettcher: So I spoke to him a couple weeks ago and that issue came up and he says I need somebody to replace me and I said you know there’s this guy named Karl. He seems like he would be Mr. Incredible if there ever was someone as a protégé. Tsuchiya: I’d have to hit the weights. Boettcher: It actually has…the Nike shoes. You can pump up the biceps of course it might take a lot of pumping up. I was looking at the spooky room too and based on what Adam says about cleaning up your rooms, if you just leave one in disorder that should be spooky. Spider webs and things leaning and falling. Ruegemer: Right. Real life. Boettcher: Is this the, in terms of popularity the third largest event of the year? Ruegemer: Of the year? Yeah I’d say it’s pretty close probably a little bit bigger than the Easter th Egg Candy Hunt so yeah, 4 of July. Yeah Boettcher: Good. Sounds good. Hoffman: How many attendees, 500? Ruegemer: Yeah 500 to 800. With parents and grandparents and kids so. We’ll have hayrides again this year so it’s always kind of fun to get out there on a horse drawn hayride so. We’ll have chocolate chip cookies too Commissioner Boettcher. Boettcher: I was just going to say I need a cookie. I have a scheduling conflict because I’ll still be in the Mediterranean but if anyone wants extra credit or extra points with the Chair of the commission save me a dozen chocolate chip cookies. Tsuchiya: Don’t they have chocolate chip cookies in the Mediterranean? Boettcher: Yeah but it’s not real chocolate. Tsuchiya: It’s that Swiss stuff that you don’t like? 18 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Boettcher: You take a bite and you go oh. Sounds like fun though Jerry. I will not be here but if Mr. Incredible, please take pictures. Ruegemer: Thank you. RECREATION CENTER QUARTERLY UPDATE. Boettcher: This would be Jodi. Sarles: Hi, thank you Chair Boettcher and commissioners. Just a little bit of update and we’ll see what we have going on at the Rec Center. Every summer we kind of go through a bit of a deep cleaning with the Bluff Creek Elementary School. They come in and they sand down our floors and reseal them so they, we do both the gym and the studio. Last year they repainted everything so it’s nice to have them come back through. Clean it all up again and get us all shiny. So that process is shrunk down which is fortunate for us. We used to take about a month for them to get that done and then they’ve kind of brought it down to about 4 or 5 days so. Boettcher: Big change. Sarles: A change in product they use for that sealant and a lot more…so that’s great. Tsuchiya: Don’t feel so funny? Sarles: There were days. Yep. And with that we usually do a back to school punch card sale right after we get our floors redone so this year we had about 50 of those 40 punch cards sold in 8 days. We do sales a year so the next one will come up for the entire month of December and that’s usually a big one so people will stock up for the year and hopefully we see them back. Sometimes those cards look a little duller than when we handed them out but that’s fantastic. They still work so I’ve seen a wide variety of them come through so. And then another thing as we go back to school we have an agreement and it was District 112 Star Program and those are 18 to 21 year olds that have special needs so they get a little bit of job training. So they come out with one of their coaches and, so we have two helpers that come in primarily to do a little bit of light cleaning the white tables. They help us stack chairs. Sometimes we’ll do some shredding but I usually the job coach can’t handle an hour of shredder running so that’s been shorten a bit so, but no we appreciate their help and it’s great to have a partnership with the school district so we usually get them all year round. Sometimes we don’t get some in the second semester…so it’s a fun program and it’s great for the kids to get out there in the public and do some help and learn some new good skills and sometimes they even bring their laundry so that’s even better. As far as some programs, the Dance for Fun. We started up our new season now. We have 25 classes going and we have 144 total dancers that participate in the program so it’s a fun program. It’s a good recreational program for the kids. We do have the…that participate in competition and they kind of travel around the metro area for a couple, 2 to 3 competitions and we’ve had some really successful dancers so it’s fun to see and we get some nice trophies in our trophy case 19 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 so if you come by that’s what, why there’s so many finger prints is the little kids coming by we’ve got to get this trophy and it’s about this big so hopefully they will win again this year. And now we’ll roll into the Rec Center Sports program. I’m very happy to announce that we have a new Rec Sports Coordinator. His name is Art Galvan. He is, he’s been a long time coach for the Minnetonka Girls Softball Association. Minnetonka Fast Pitch Director. Art has a full time job being the financial advisor by day so it’s great to have somebody in that has a passion. He got right in and jumped in the last few weeks of T-ball so my summer of T-ball, I got some help by the end which was fun and he had some great tips for the kids so onto soccer and that’s what we left a little bit early tonight with the lightning so. So our Small Fry soccer and it’s the program that’s going on and that’s a 6 week program and there’s 40 little ones and we had 64 kids in our last session of T-ball so it’s a fun program. The kids really love it and learn, there’s all sorts of games around soccer. Tonight they were learning their goalie skills so that was great fun. First time we’ve let them touch the ball with their hands so. Not voluntarily though. And then we also do our Lil’ Star Sports. That’s a little bit older ages so that’s actually 5 to 6. Looks like a typo there so we have 36 kids in that one so a little bit smaller group in there with… We tend to get a few kids that will come out of the Small Fry and then kind of jump into the CAA programs because I believe they start at 5 so. And a few weeks ago and I believe Commissioner Scanlon was at our Barnyard Boogie. Yeah so it’s a very fun event for families and little ones so we had a petting zoo. We had arts and crafts. A Go Gymnastics program. The woman puts on a demonstration where you can come in and go through all of the gymnastic equipment so they’re walking the balance beam and trying to swing around on the bars and everything and jumps and somersaults and then of course we have the dance and bounce house and we do this one with Victoria. We split a couple events each year so we have our Super Hero Party is over at the Victoria Rec Center in March and we do this one back in Chan so it’s a nice partnership. A way to get more people and kind of cover our costs that way too and…because it looked like it could have rained a bit so fortunately it didn’t and then… And then as far as a few things that are coming up at the Rec Center. We’ve got some trial class so free chair is a trial class. Fit for Life trial class. Our annual artisan fair is going to be in November. That first Saturday in November. That’s a fun one to see all the art that your neighbors make because you have no idea that they can do what they do and it’s fun. And then again the Holiday Boutique is another fun one so. And plenty of more activities going on at the Rec Center but that’s just a little update… Does anybody have any questions? Boettcher: You just stay busy 12 months a year over there. Sarles: We try. We try. Boettcher: I mean I just look at these, every time we do a quarterly report and it’s just the number of things going on at all times is just pretty amazing how you keep everything straight. Keep coordination. Logistics and all. Sarles: Yeah it’s fun. It’s fun and so it’s good to see all sorts of different people coming in and using the Rec Center and for all sorts of different reasons too so it’s great. 20 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Boettcher: Good. Sarles: Thank you. Boettcher: Thank you very much. SENIOR CENTER QUARTERLY UPDATE. Boettcher: Mary looks like you’re next with the senior center update. Blazanin: …Chair Boettcher and commissioners. We’ve been busy too at the senior center. We have seen many new faces walk through the door which is always fun and exciting. One thing that’s been kind of fun for me to watch is how many seniors have been inviting families and friends to come along because they may have attended something last week that was really fun and they bring their neighbors for the next one so that’s really fun to see. We have been doing a lot of stuff this summer. Our highlights include over 22 events both large and small. Some of our most popular events is Soup, Salad and Song or Soup, Salad and Speaker events that I’ve been hosting. In the past 3 months we’ve had over 200 people participate in those. That’s a lot of food going through. One of the most well attended was our musical tribute to the Mills Brothers and everyone really, really loved that. In fact I turned around and rehired the guy that came in and performed for that for a February event and so people are already talking about that. All of these events typically include a simple luncheon and one thing that’s kind of interesting during these events is that people don’t always sit with the same group every time so they really are kind of branching out and meeting each other. Building community at the senior center. We took many trips to local plays, concerts. We went to go to a Saints game and a Twins game. We sat through the longest Twins game of all time… Yep we didn’t get home until 8:00 that night. It as a very long game but those seniors they’re tough. So we patted ourselves on the back for making it through that. Most of our trips we partner with Chaska. Their community adult, active older adult group with the Lodge. It just helps us fill the bus and it’s a lot of fun to partner so we do a lot of trips with Chaska. This year we also included Victoria in our trip to the Guthrie and also to the Saints game. They partnered with us on that. We also had educational and informational classes. Anywhere from understanding Medicare to, I’m trying to think the 1936 Olympics and what that looks like and those again engaged another 200 seniors so they really do like those classes and specialty speakers. We continue to have strong groups. Specialty groups that are thriving. Enjoying hobbies like wood carving. Our wood carvers if you didn’t know are also have gotten engaged in teaching students. Young students. Kids who are home schooled come in and learn how to wood carve with them once a week. Right now we have 5 kids working with the seniors learning how to carve so if you’re ever here on Wednesday morning they’re usually here from 9:00 until about 11:00. It’s really fun to just walk back there and kind of observe and watch wat they’re up to. We have a lot of cards and games. Group set play. The Chan-o-laires started up again and practice every Tuesday. Diane Prieditis who was the Chan-o- 21 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 laires Director for 14 years just recently retired. She and her husband are moving out of state to be closer to family and we just had a big party last Thursday. Or what day was that? Hoffman: Thursday. Blazanin: Thursday. Todd gave a little speech. It was very nice. It was a good turnout and it was a good tribute to Diane for all her hard work with that group. We continue to provide support groups, counseling care, outreaches, health clinics. We did a flu shot clinic this year that brought in several seniors to get those taken care of. In the last 3 months we’ve served at least 75 clients in different capacities. Insurance counseling. Foot care. A number of things that we provide just to help them get those things either for free or at reduced prices… We are still working on getting our Maple Room which is now called the Maple Corner redecorated and th updated and on October 10 we’re going to have a big grand opening open house event which I hope you’ll be able to attend from 11:30 to 1:30. Mayor Ryan will come at 11:30 and cut the ribbon and officially open it up. This has been an amazing ride honestly. It started out with my just sort of reaching out to Love INC to see if they’d be willing to help me refurnish it with some updated furniture and it’s turned into a complete remodel with a lot of community partners and businesses jumping onboard so not only are we moving furniture, we got the walls painted. We’re getting new carpeting. We’re getting just some new woodwork in there. It’s a very exciting project and it’s been a really, truly a very, I don’t even know how to describe it. People have just come together to make it happen so it’s been really cool so we will announce further on we’ll definitely recognize those businesses and individual organizations that have been involved in that project going in. It’s a super comfortable space. It’s really fun to go back there and just see seniors sitting in a cozy chair reading a book or working on their laptop or having some coffee with a friend. It’s already starting to be used just the way it should be which is a comfortable space to hang out. We’re also gearing up for our very busy fall and winter programming. I have a lot of holiday events coming up. In November we’re going to be recognizing Alzheimer’s Awareness Month with several event speakers and special events. One nd of these events includes our partnering with the Chanhassen Cinema on November 2 which is a Saturday morning and we’re going to show the Glen Campbell documentary entitled I’ll Be Me. It chronicles his journey from the time that he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s through a farewell tour that he put on to say good bye to all his fans. It’s quite a moving and touching story about his walk through his journey with Alzheimer’s and his family’s journey as care givers for him. The Cinema has graciously offered to let us use their space. We also had very many community partners who are offering to provide food, donuts and coffee and lunch after the show and we have counseling groups at the end of the show to be there to talk with people if they want to make a connection to find out how they can get help or how you can get more information…maybe dealing with a loved one that’s struggling…so already, it’s not until November but I’ve already gotten more than 50 people signed up for that so we’ll certainly get at least 100 by the time. That’s a really cool thing. Our annual Holiday Party is scheduled for th Friday, December 6 and of course I always enjoy having Park and Rec Commissioners show up so let me know if you are able to make it. Lunch is at noon, then we have entertainment after 22 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 that…just let me know. I’ll make sure there’s a table top for you. Do you have any questions for me? Sweetser: When do you sleep? Wonderful. Wonderful calendar. Tsuchiya: I’m just Mary with the developments going in, is there any planning for that? Just I’m assuming there’s going to be a fair share of those newer residents in. Blazanin: For In the senior center? Tsuchiya: Yeah just you know I’m, they’ll stay within their facility but I think some of the more mobile individuals might venture up this way. Hopefully they do obviously. Blazanin: Yeah I think…actually I’ve had a few phone calls from who had said we just got, secured an apartment at Riley Crossing and I’m just calling to find out what the senior center has to offer so. Tsuchiya: Good. Blazanin: …I’ve been doing that. I do try to reach out to staff at those places to let them know, I send them our newsletter. I send them our calendars. I’m always telling them please bring a bus load of… They run a lot of similar programs in their own places so if they don’t feel comfortable…but sometimes it’s nice to have them coming in and I do get people from a lot of those folks do come in so I don’t know if it’s going to affect the numbers or if more people will come. I’m hoping that they’ll feel welcomed. Tsuchiya: Yeah. I hope there’s a great opportunity in there. If they stay within their facility that’s understandable but. Blazanin: …field trips. Tsuchiya: More partnerships. Fill up another bus. Blazanin: I did invite all of those seniors housing facilities to come and do a Cruise the World of Senior Housing. It was a one day event. They came and each one shared a little bit about their building and about their community and answered questions… Anything from you know what’s a special event to what does it look like to live there and that was really well attended. We had over 30 people show up for that. Plus they fed them which…so it’s a good way to connect our seniors with that community and they really do work well together. I have to say Chanhassen, the senior housing communities are unique in that they talk to each other and they really do work together. I was working with a client that doesn’t see a good fit for their place they’ll refer them onto somebody else. It’s really cool. Really cool community around here. 23 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Tsuchiya: Thank you. Blazanin: You’re welcome. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: DISCUSSION ON POSSIBLE FUTURE PARK AND RECREATION IMPROVEMENT BOND REFERENDUM. Boettcher: Do we still need money and how do we get it? Hoffman: This is just a self guided tour of your thoughts about, we have a school referendum coming up. You have a Lake Ann Park project that is some point in the future, you still don’t know the final cost on the Arboretum trail so I think it’s a good time to start an initial conversation about you know how are these things all going to come into play. What’s the timing of each? How much cash will be generated by park dedication fees in the future? You know Avienda’s on the horizon. If that even comes to fruition that’s about $2.7 to $3 million dollars in park referendum fees. There’s other big projects that potentially come in would generate some additional cash so I know the council and the park commission talked about this and so timing is an issue. You know do you want to do it on a presidential election if you would do it that would be 2020. Or do you want to do it in the spring of the year. The last referendum th was in ’97. It was on June 19 I believe, just a single question referendum. You could wait until an off election year. Off presidential election year which is 2021 but those are all decisions that would be made in the future. This would be a basic conversation about philosophies and where each of you are at as commissioners. Boettcher: So with the Prince property and everything happening there the earliest is probably two years out. Would it be better to wait until, you don’t want to wait until we’re actually making decisions to think about money. You want to do that 12 months in advance with referendum talk? Hoffman: Yeah and you don’t know the cost yet. The feasibility study will identify that and that’s been pushed off for you until October. Your October meeting and then council for November so you’re going to be a month or two from now you’ll know a lot more information as far as your financial obligations, both for committed projects such as the Arboretum trail. Even the trail that’s in the Chan Nature Preserve that, the building is under construction right now but we don’t have the, we budgeted 120 but we don’t have the actual cost so we’ll know that number here in the near future as well so a variety of these questions are going to be known soon and then we’ll have additional information to guide your discussions. Pemrick: Quick question on the Arboretum trail. Memory is serving me that the federal grant that was kind of a big catalyst for this, wasn’t that decision needed by the end of September or October of this year to get that federal grant otherwise we lose it? 24 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Hoffman: Correct. Pemrick: Okay. Hoffman: So there has to be an action, they have to take the bidding and so they’ll take the bidding in time for that and. Pemrick: Okay. But the decision doesn’t need to be made in that short of a timeframe? Hoffman: No. And the bids could actually all be rejected and it could be rebid but the initial bid has to be done by that certain timeline. Pemrick: Wonderful, thank you for that clarification. Hoffman: And the County’s got that. The County’s got that timeline set. Boettcher: Anyone else? Joe? Karl? Anything? Tsuchiya: What are the, so if I’m leaving any out, funding options for our projects is bonding. We ask the City Council to do bonding. And then I don’t know these other options. I know Mayor Ryan charged us to think out of the box. Not just with what we do with the space but probably I would say that extends to funding so the City’s talking about the franchise fee for roads but do we also look at the funding that we’re asking for, how much are we asking for and is this just to complete a finite number of projects or is this a funding source that can supplement the park dedication fund you know looking at having a broader view and a more long time view. Is that something that we would maybe want to consider and propose to City Council but you know taking the temperature of the community as a whole a well. Boettcher: Right and I think initially our thought was to include like a final completion of Bandimere. Two or three at least things, shelter and stuff like that we’ve been talking about for a long time. If we were going to do this, if we were going to get the influx of money through a bond referendum that we would have enough to cover the projects that we’ve had that we’ve been pushing down the road and I think that would make sense. Rather than do something and find out 12 to 18 months later well now we don’t have money for this. I mean it’s kind of a tough timeframe is kind of bad too with the school referendum. You know two other things going on and then we want to come in. There was the article in the paper, the editorial was it weeks ago Todd? Where a former council member wrote and talked about the franchise fee and somewhere in there he threw in a blurb about watch something’s coming from park and rec and I went oh great. Now we’re already being looked at as bad guys and girls because we may ask for money too. I mean shame on us but we have been putting that discussion off for so long and if we were going to do it, if it was going to come to fruition I would be one in favor of enough to cover what we’ve been talking about. You know there are the big projects. Todd was talking 25 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 about Avienda and such but know what we have on our plate, doing a final tally and say this is what we would need realistically. Petouvis: I would also like to just toss out for consideration. I know that historically the commission’s responsibility has been more towards new building and to developing the city’s infrastructure of park and recreation amenities. Without, as far as I understand and I could be wrong we’re without a funding source, set reliable funding source for replacement. Maintenance. Keeping what we’ve built over decades an asset that really attracts people to the city and makes people enjoy living here. Want to stay here and it’s just a niggling concern that’s always in the back of my head that we don’t have something solid in our hands to make sure that we can maintain what we build. So if there’s any discussion we can have any options that we have in relation to funding these larger new projects that can help us build a nest egg of sorts for what we already have to make sure it stays beautiful and the weeds and the cracks and the pathways don’t go up to my knees. Just stay at my ankles and you know it’s, there’s a lot to consider because we have wonderful, wonderful amenities in this city and it would be just a shame to stay laser focused on the new, new, new and lose sight of making sure we take good care of what we’ve got so if we have an opportunity to build you a base that will just grow and support that that’d be great. Tsuchiya: Todd is there like a balance sheet that you guys have as a city that maintains, you know watches the assets and depreciation and then projects the replacement cost for shelters and playground equipment. Everything on the park and rec side. Hoffman: Yes. Tsuchiya: And any ballpark idea of? Hoffman: So I can give you a couple examples commissioners. So to Commissioner Petouvis’ question, so last evening go to the City Council meeting from last evening when you have a chance and pull up the work session item which talked about establishing the maximum levy for 2020 and there were 3 scenarios and the final scenario included such things as an additional staff member for street maintenance, an additional staff member for park maintenance. Permanent funding for the City’s share of the street pavement management program. Permanent funding for the City’s park replacement schedule and so as you’ll remember really the catalyst behind the last, well the catalyst behind the park and recreation system master plan was the need to start that program so we have all of this infrastructure in place. Millions and millions of dollars of trails, buildings, parks, those type of things but we did not have a funding or program to pay for their repair and replacement. So park dedication, you can only build new. You can’t take park dedication money because it’s based on the premise that when you bring new people or new businesses you increase the demand. If you increase the demand you must take their money and build new. You can’t take that money to replace and repair so how do you find money to replace and repair? Well who’s wearing your equipment out? Your current residents and visitors to the community. Who would pay for that? Your current residents would pay for that and that would 26 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 be typically through the levy so you would levy up for that. So the park replacement schedule right now is about $250,000 annually. This was the first year. It’s not guaranteed that will be approved for another $250,000 in 2020. We’re hopeful that it will be but I can tell you last night and as the council met here they talked about adding $510,000 as a potential to the max levy but that did not include at least from what I saw, that did not include a permanent funding of the park replacement schedule. That was one of the items listed. Really what they were focusing on potentially, but they could change their mind, was the two employees and then the pavement management and so last night they had that very conversation that you were asking about today and they chose not to, at least make a statement last night that they would like to do that as a permanent funding and raise the levy to make that a permanent funding source. So I would encourage you to read that report and then follow that conversation and talk to your council members as it continues on into the fall. Petouvis: And is the levy our only, the City’s only option for funding that on a permanent basis? Hoffman: For the most part. Yep. So most of the City’s business, operation and maintenance is all based on the levy and you know what you pay in taxes pays for operations and maintenance of the City. Well it’s not the only, I mean some cities use franchise fees for other things. Some cities use franchise fees for parks. Right now that conversation is use it for streets. Eden Prairie they run a liquor operation. Million dollars a year revenue. They use it to replace playgrounds on an annual basis for other, a variety of cities have a variety of funding mechanisms for their current replacement of all of their equipment and you know we’re fairly new in that game. Another example I can give you is so pavement management is operated by engineering and public works. This year they’re doing one pavement management path and so it’s about $320,000 to repair and replace the path around the headwaters of Bluff Creek so this is right behind, it’s east of 41. North of Highway 5. Right in the corner by Highway 5 and 41 so that trail that goes around the wetland, Longacres is on your north. So one section of trail in our entire system, $320,000 and our Finance Director is telling us that’s all you get for 3 years. And I go well Greg this is not enough. You know you’ve got 30 or 4 and so it’s about $320,000 to repair and replace the path around the headwaters of Bluff Creek so this is right behind, it’s east of 41. North of Highway 5. Right in the corner by Highway 5 and 41 so that trail that goes around the wetland, Longacres is on your north. So one section of trail in our entire system, $320,000 and our Finance Director is telling us that’s all you get for 3 years. And I go well Greg this is not enough. You know you’ve got 30 or 40 million dollars worth of asphalt in the ground and you can’t repair and replace it at a level of $320,000 every 3 years. Well that’s you know all you’re going to get so to your point at some period if our future somebody’s going to have to face the music and say you know what we’ve got to fund this up at a much higher level if we want to maintain the quality of the infrastructure that we currently have in place because it will begin to deteriorate and you know anything deteriorates slowly in it’s first half of life. It deteriorates very fast in it’s second half of life so that’s the scary Halloween monster in the closet and they’re starting to recognize it in streets and so that’s why all the focus right now is on streets because we built a very large chunk of our streets in a certain period of time that are now coming due. We also built a very large chunk of our park infrastructure at that same time. 27 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Petouvis: So there’s a reason why it bothers me. Hoffman: Good reason. Boettcher: Very legitimate reason. Tsuchiya: Todd out of curiosity that quarter million dollars that they’ve been using, how does that compare to the actual needs of the park and recreation for replacement? Does that meet, you know does that meet the, if you schedule out you know replacement of park equipment and such. Hoffman: You’re falling behind more slowly. Tsuchiya: Yeah okay. I’m just like is it meeting it or is it a short fall for what would actually be required if you? Hoffman: Oh it’s a short fall. Tsuchiya: Okay. Hoffman: It’s just a portion of the, you’re making a dent in the future and you’re just falling behind more slowly with that 250. Tsuchiya: And to your point Todd now people are noticing streets. I know we’ve had playground replacement which has been very well received by the communities but, have we seen any uptick in the communications for residents on you know I’m starting to notice this and? Hoffman: Oh sure yeah. So we receive things called request trackers and so those are catalogued and so we receive oh you know a few of those a week and so people are noticing their trails. Maintenance of ballfields. You know fencing. There’s a variety of things that you know the public notices. And what I can tell you from my years of experience here is people have an expectation that you’re the ones doing this so we probably shouldn’t have to ask that you go maintain this and so there can be a pretty big gap in communication so your quality can fall quite some way. Quite far before somebody picks it up and says hey, you know aren’t you taking care of this and in reality there are just some things we can’t and so if you take another example just of our general, and so the reason for this conversation about this additional staff member is we haven’t had a full time staff since 2005 so 2005 was the last time we had a full time park maintenance staff. We added 2 in 2005 and so we’ve grown 14 years, which is about 30 to 40 percent of our total maintenance responsibilities without adding an additional staff member. So that necessitates that we work towards the core. We protect the core facilities and services but the extremities fall by the wayside so there are many things that we did very well in 2005 which we don’t do very well now. And again people wouldn’t have that expectation. They would have the expectation as a grown community you’re probably either doing the same or better when in 28 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 reality we’re actually doing worst and we have a lower capacity to perform our functions on a daily basis. Tsuchiya: Okay thank you. Boettcher: Any other questions for Todd or discussion? Sandy? Sweetser: That was fast. Hoffman: Well they do a very good job of what they do but it’s a challenge and it also is I think can be a morale issue because it’s, they’re pressed pretty hard on a daily basis and they jump around from one project to the next because it’s really hard to focus when you’ve got them working… Kutz: I guess I’d just like to summarize. I think we need to get our master list together and then we need to come up with an annual, we need to come up with a proposal for the council and say we need this and we’re going to have to do a good job convincing them hey we need a dedicated source of funding. Sweetser: And ongoing. Kutz: And ongoing source of funding. One percent of the levy. Half a percent of the levy, whatever it is and that’s what we need. We’ve got to have it so let’s get our list together. Let’s get our proposal together and then let’s present to council saying hey this is our recommendation. Boettcher: And I agree that’s the best. What time wise would we be looking at, a couple months? Hoffman: Timing wise you would be doing that for the 2021 budget. Boettcher: For 2021. Hoffman: You have the first half of 2020 to establish that proposal. Petouvis: And that’s independent of any funding source for new projects. Pemrick: I would say too to focus on the street you know with the franchise fee right now. That’s a can that’s been kicked down the road for 30 years and really stressing you know we’re just trying to prevent 30 years from now a park can being dented and flatten and part of the street that’s not really there any more. You know and using that because we know what happens when we don’t look at it. 29 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Petouvis: Yep, well and the park system is one that is held out there constantly as the beacon of light that draws people to Chanhassen and I mean I am one of those people that was drawn to Chanhassen because of a park. And so it’s true but it’s, if we let them slide and if we keep Adam’s staff exhausted it just won’t, it just won’t work and I think as a commission we can beat a drum and say this is, it’s irresponsible to go any farther into the future so. Boettcher: Just when you said the future I had a flash of the movie Back to the Future and the scene is when Michael J. Fox goes from 1955 to 1985 and his old neighborhood that was brand new being built had the banners on it and the saying at the entrance is not riddled with old houses and vagabonds and meth heads and whatever so. Petouvis: Somehow it always comes back to. Tsuchiya: That’s very dark. Boettcher: It’s in the movie. No it’s dark, it’s in the movie. But I mean that’s, I know what you’re going at. That’s what comes to mind though when I think of it and it is true, I mean I look at some of the stuff that we’ve just done in the last 3 years as far as replacement and the one park that I wasn’t really familiar with and we took a little excursion out there and we all get of the vehicle and I looked and I went oh my god. It looked pretty, I won’t say which but it looks good now with everything new but it really looked ragged at that time compared to the level of everything else. And Bandimere, Susan and all. It really did look pretty rough. I thought oh, that’s what people are talking about. Tsuchiya: Before we move on to discussion I just want to, just came to mind is you know as a commission to make the recommendation I think the course we’re going is the right one at this point but realistically we’re not the, the 7 of us aren’t really going to move the needle much with the commission. It’s going to be public input so in the what, 8-9 months we have until we need to have a real proposal we have to also consider how are we going to get public input to support recommendation to council because they’ll listen to us but unless they feel the public is behind such, you know yes I’m willing to pay my property taxes toward park replacement fund. That’s important to me as a citizen. You know without that it’s not going to go anywhere and that can might be kicked again so I think, I don’t know. I don’t have a solution on how to do that right now but I just, that’s an important aspect of securing this is you know, the commission’s going to have to, we’ll recommend it and the council will approve it. The public will vote on it and we want to make sure if we’re going to put it before a ballot or something like that, that it has a chance of succeeding. I don’t want it to come down to just a handful of votes. I’d rather have a little more of a sure thing. Boettcher: So timing wise as far as a starting our major discussion would we be talking the first of the year? And then by the time we meet with council in April we’d have a solid plan that we can hand them and say here. Here’s what we’re looking at. Here’s what our request is. Here’s the reasoning. Here’s the direction. 30 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Tsuchiya: But at that April meeting is that where we also have to have you know public input to say not only do we recommend this but here’s the market research to say you know so many percentage of citizens would be behind this. Sweetser: How did we get public input in previous referendums? Hoffman: The two, the ’97 referendum there was two full blown surveys and then you could start it this time around so our next survey, citizen survey is being distributed in the first half of November and so I can request that two questions go on there. What is the appetite of the public to fund maintenance of park equipment and what is the appetite of the public to finance new future improvements in the city. And if we ask those questions they’ll draft those questions in an appropriate manner. They’ll put those on the survey. They’re typically additional questions about lots of questions about how you like your streets, your parks, your water, sewer. The overall safety of your community but then there’s these separate questions, would you feel that you would support financing, and there typically is a number attached to it. $20 bucks a month. $10 bucks a month. Whatever the number is so I’ll make the request that those could go in in November. Sweetser: Thank you. Petouvis: That would be excellent. Boettcher: So we’d have that by January then. We’d have our solid discussion ready. Tsuchiya: That survey you said Todd was November? Hoffman: November. First half of November, yep. Tsuchiya: Okay. And I don’t want to be too manipulative of this but is there a way to kind of start making, having people think about that before the survey comes out with the Villager or something? Hoffman: Sure. Tsuchiya: Can we get the Villager involved or some other outlet where we can maybe you know give some honest information about this is what you’ll see this question. This is what it’s all about because the survey itself is just a couple of sentences so you’d want to give them a full explanation. Hoffman: What was most effective during the park system master plan was that the commission drafted a letter that was then sent to the, so you would publish an editorial. You would public an opinion piece in the Villager that would say park and recreation commission knows this about 31 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 where we’re at and parks and trails in our city. We understand that we have all of this infrastructure in place that we need to repair and replace and we don’t have a current permanent funding source. We want your input on this. There’s an opportunity to do that in November and then there will also be additional public hearings after the first of the year and so you write that editorial. Get the conversation started in the community. Then the survey comes out. After the first of the year you host a meeting right here in this room where people can come in and offer their opinions on both of those questions. So it’s just a continual conversation as we move through, and council’s like that because what you are is you’re a gap between them and the public so you can take the input, both positive and negative about those and kind of sort it out. They can watch that all play out and then when your recommendation gets there in April obviously if you’ve heard a whole bunch of negative it’s pretty difficult to make a recommendation the other way but if you’ve heard a lot of positive it’s pretty easy to make that recommendation and move forward. I think I’ve talked a little bit about the history. So the referendum was in ’97 the last time around. The conversation started here in ’94. So it was a 3 year process. Tsuchiya: I want to make a motion that Meredith writes the editorial. Petouvis: Oh that’s right the editorial. I will take a first stab. Boettcher: It was actually between her and Mr. Incredible. I didn’t know which one. Or you being Ms. Incredible. Tsuchiya: She’s just incredible. Petouvis: I’d be Elastic Girl right? Hoffman: Right. Like it. Petouvis: I would be happy to do that. Boettcher: So we don’t have to make a motion and force you to do that? Petouvis: No. The only thing is don’t make we make any more motions but I think I filled the field last month so. Hoffman: First we have to get the questions on the survey and then once we do I’ll let you know. Petouvis: Yes, okay. Tsuchiya: Thank you Todd. 32 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Boettcher: I think that’s the direction we’re looking for. I mean that’s. Petouvis: I think we just have to, we I think as a commission it’s time to start to get noisy about what this means. Boettcher: And I like what Matt said about we just, we’ve got to put it together and put the number out there. Petouvis: Yep. And people need to know what we’re talking about. Tsuchiya: Todd can you share with us just a conservative, of just here’s the assets. Here’s the depreciation schedule. Here’s a replacement schedule. This is just if you just take it on a linear basis this is how much you’re going to need every year. Hoffman: Yep, be happy to. Tsuchiya: That will give us an idea of you know sure we’re getting a quarter million dollars right now but if what Todd said is correct it’s just a drop in the bucket. How much are we actually, expand on that, how much are we actually asking for per year with the projection that that number’s just going to grow as the city grows. Not only that but costs are going to increase over time so you have to do a, you know factor in some growth in that fund otherwise it’s just going to keep falling farther and farther behind which you know maybe people are okay with. Some is better than nothing but you know let’s go for as much as we can that’s tolerable for the citizenship. Boettcher: And comparing too with the number you threw out about the amount of pavement that’s down, the dollar value and how much we’re using annually. I mean that’s just the pavement. That doesn’t include anything else. Jerry’s spooky house and everything else. I mean when you look at that maintenance number percentage wise I mean that is so miniscule of the total investment and I think anyone with any business…would look at that and say you’re never going to be caught up at that rate. You’re always going to fall behind so. Hoffman: Yeah and there’s examples. This is a common scenario in society and so cities like Plymouth, they just lost a whole chunk of trails. They just $10 million onto the trails. They’re just forced in that position and so it does happen because it’s challenging to say hey, we want to spend more now to make sure that the future is bright. That’s really a hard thing to sell. So often times the can gets kicked down the road. So pavement management for trails was not in engineering and public works at a certain period of time. That was lumped in so now it’s everything. It’s streets. Public parking lots. Trails and so the year that was put in, all combined for the next 9 years not a single trail project was completed. The previous 9 years $50,000 was done annually and so you see what happens when you give that to somebody who is in charge of streets they’re going to baby their streets far before they baby their park trail because that park director over there doesn’t get a say in it anymore and so that’s just another example of how if 33 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 you want a program to work effectively but in my opinion it hasn’t worked… We fell behind faster. Kutz: And that’s what we need. We need those examples to formulate our opinion for the board. I mean you have the knowledge and we’re going to lean on you to give us those examples so we can use those as knowledge for our opinion so. Hoffman: Be happy to. Boettcher: Any other discussion? If not what do we have left? ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Boettcher: What do we have left? Administrative packet. Anything in there Todd that needs to be brought to our attention? Hoffman: Lots of good stuff in there. Always fun to read the surveys on how people like our shelters and the trail news is in there. That’s some pretty big news. So the trail slough happened in 2014 and now it will be fixed in 2020 and 2021 along with the 101 project so the 101 down the bluff project will incorporate the road itself and then the trail slough repair and the bridge. The bridge over the top of 101. Very impressive project. So not all is lost. Beautiful…project. Boettcher: It’s only been washed out for 5 years. Not like anybody was going to use it in that time. Hoffman: Patience. Patience. Public projects are sometimes challenging. Tsuchiya: Sometimes. Boettcher: Anyone have anything else to discuss? Sweetser: Just one last, just a quick update. I did reach out to Chanhassen High School. To one of the counselors. I haven’t gotten a response back yet with any actual you know opportunities but he is going to look into it and see if there are any students that are interested in working with us so. Boettcher: Good. Sweetser: So I’ll let you guys know as soon as I hear any details. Boettcher: Appreciate it. No other business I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn. 34 Park and Recreation Commission – September 24, 2019 Petouvis moved, Kutz seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 p.m. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 35