02-17-88 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
WEDNESDAY, FEBRARY 17, 1988, 7:30 p.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
1
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Preliminary plat
commercial lotslocated north of
Boulevard., T. F.
Evaluation of Building permit ApplicationCompliance with Conditional Use iermit foron property zoned RSF, Residential Singleat 4141 Kings Road, Lowell Carlson.
to Determine
a Contractor I s yard
Family and located
be
, Rural
Luse,
2.Temporary conditional use permit to allow a trailer toIocated temporarily on_5.65 acres of property zoned RRResidential and located at 1560 Arboritum Blvd, DavidNatural Green.
3 approval to replat 5 commercial lots into 6on property zoned BG, General Business andWest 78th Street between powers and KeiberJames Company.
4. site plan review_of a 7,277 square foot church to be locatedon property zoned puD-R, planned Residential Developmeni -Residenrial and located ar 25r r,are orive E;"4-ii;;=il"iro"i.7, Hidden VaIley), Family of Christ Lutheran Church.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
NEW BUSINESS
OPEN DISCUSS ION
5. Comprehensive plan - Transportation Chapter
6. Metropolitan Council Sewer policy plan
ADJOURNMENT
N%
CITY OF
EHANH[SSEN
STAFF REPORT
ko
LrJF
U)
Evaluation of Building permit Application toDetermine Compliance with Conditional Use permitfor a Contractori s Yard
'l' al r'
PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT:
4141 Kings Road )-l u 1rs
- -z- /-r z/tt ii-
Carlson Excavating
4141 Kings RoadExcelsior, lrlN 5533I
RSF, Single Family Residential
6 acres
N,/a
N-
s-
E-
t{-
RSF;
RSF;
RSF;
RSF;
agricultural
single family residence
single family residence
single f ami Iy,/Victoria
WATER AND SE!{ER:
PHYSICAL CHARAC. :
Municipal services currently uot iostalled
Site slopessmall ridge.to$raral the southi contains a
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Low Density Residential
P.C. DATB: Feb. 17, 1988
C.C. DAIB8 March 14, 1988
CASE NO: 84-19 CUP
Prepared by: Dacy/v
Fz
C)
=tLL
LOCATION:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENS ITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
6
6,4OO-
6500
6600
68oO
6900
7000
Ttoo--
u,?200-
7400
77OO _ _
78OO--
7900
1-'
E
Oitfrfrior-
LAKE
IIIIINEUASHTI
RD
PUD-R
IAPLE 3HqflE3
DRIVE
Lo
Fo (D
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F
I
(,
uiE
t
Its
I'V'T I;L6dru
I
\\lY,re>I('HGS ROAO
U
(t
-z
E PO
STJOE
L AKT
---.1
tr
A2
7300
7@O
\./ne ),tfr
I
Ifx
eooo-
Carlson Excavating CUP
February 17, 1988
Page 2
BACKGROU ND
The applicant applied for a conditional use100r pole oarn in June of 1973. On June 12,
Commission recommended denial of the request
"t.hat. there are two garages on the propertyitype of operation; and if expanded it couldThe City Council also denied the request onon the Planning Commissionrs recommendation.
perroit for a 30' x
1973, the Planning
based on the f indingsit is a warehous ing
be used for repairn.
.fune 18, 1973, based
The applicant has been operating his business before the adoptionof the Zoning Ordinance in 1972.
On August 20, 1984, the City Council amended the Zoning Orilinanceto al1ow contractor's yards as a conditional use in the then inplace R-Ia, Agricultural Residence District. All contractor,syard owners were contacted regarding this amenalment and appliedfor conditional use permit approval .
The Planning Cornmission considered the request on November .L3rL984, and tabled the item until a detail_ed site plan could bedeveloped. The commission considered the applicition .giin onoctober 23, 1985. The planning Commission recommended ipprovalof the conditional use permit sr:bject to four conditions'iseeAttachment #6). On November 4, I9g5, the City Council approvedthe conditional use permir ror contractor,s yird activiiils-sub-ject to frve condirions:
1. ThaC a structure be erected on site in conforrnance wiLh thesetbacks of the R-la District and in conformance with thebuilding code requirements by June 30, I9g6.
2
3
A1l vehicles sha11 be stored inside the structure.
AII unlicensed vehicles, litter and debris sha1l be removedfrom the site by December 1, 1985.
4. Expansion of t.he contractorrs yard activitybeen represented in this appli-ation must beconditional use permit.
5. Annual review by the City.
ANALYS IS
beyond what has
approved by a
Although che city staff hrarrants criticism for arrowing portionsof the 1985 permit to Lapse by over one year, it hras tlie'belief
":- t!g Planning Department and City Attoiney that every meansshould be pursued for compliance before prolecution wa-s re"o*-mended. citizens living in the Minnewashta area and council mem-bers may find difficulty in understanding staff's position.
Carlson Excava t.ing CUP
February 17, I9 88
Page 3
The fact remains that Mr. Carlsonrs operaEion predated city ordi-nances. Effectively, Iltr. Carlson is operating on the property as
a valid non-conforming use. Property o\4rners on the norEh and
east side of Lake Minnewashta can attest to the problems asso-
ciated rvith a non-conforming use. Specifically, the city con-
tinued to have I{r. Cermak (business operaEion very similar to Mr.
Carlsonrs) in court for over a ten year period of Lime. The
court continued to support the righfs of a business which pre-
dated city ordinances. For example, on one occasion the court
found thaE. the numerous stumps dumped onto the site were similar
in character to Lhe business itself, that the junx cars may have
restoration va1ue, that a pile of deoris could not be substan-
tiated as to its time of existence. By contrast, if a contrac-
torrs yaril permit can be entered into and agreed to by the owner
and city, the city has a means by which illegal activities can be
measured and upon which a court can reasonably require compliance.
RECOMMENDAT I ON
As stated in the Analysis Seccion, city staff would welcorne any
form of action which would cause the property owner to comply
lvith the conditions establi.shed i:r 1985. Given past performance,
staff questions whether it can or will happen. Mr. Carlson does
appear to be willing to coustruct a 2,000 square foot buildi.ng
iiitiatfy. If an agreement caonot be reached, this office sees
no alternaeive bu! to recommend that the Planning Commission ask
that the City Council revocate the conditional use permit. The
Zoning ordinance requires a public hearing by the City Council in
order to revoke a conditional use permit. This recommendatsion is
made recognizing that by revoking the conditional use permit
would authorize Ehe City Attorney's Office to iniEiate J-ega1 pro-
ceedings against Ur. Carlson to clean up the site and/or ceasebusiness operations.
FoIlowing continuous prodding by city staff' lilr. Carlson did make
application for a permit in January, 1988, for construction of a
12,000 square foot building. Mr. Carlson wishes to proceed imme-
diately with construction of a 21000 sguare foot building by
using parts of 12,000 sguare foot structure already moved onto
the site.
City staff would be more than pleased if either the Planninq
Commission or City Council could reach agreement with Mr. Carlson
as to vrhaE will be construcEed on the site and materials that are
to be moved into tshe structure. We continue to believe that
entering into an agreement specifying exactly what is to be done
and materials to be maintained inside would be very advantageous.
However, we cannot support the construction of a 12r000 square
foot building recognizing thaE sewer and "'tater is available to che
area and eventually platting of t,he area into single family homes
will occur. Entering into an agreement, which would allow for a
12,000 square foot building, woulil be more clamaging than not
having any agreement.
Car]-son ExcavaEing CUP
February 17, 1988
Page 4
Should by chance the Planning Commission/City Council reach some
form of agreement with Mr. Carlson, staff would recommend thatthe agreement be similar to that of November 4, 1985, (see page
2) rcith the dates being respectively changed.
ATTACHMENTS
Conditional use permit dated November 18, 1985.
Building permit application dated January I2, 1988
Submitted site plan.
City Council minutes dated November 4, 1985.
Planning Commission minutes dated November 14, 1984.
Planning Commission minutes dated October 23, I985.
Planning Commission minutes dated June L2, L973.
city Council minutes dated June I8, 1973.
Letter from Barbara Dacy dated January 26, L988.
I
2
3
4
5
6
7I
9
* NoTE: The applicant vras requested to submit a reproduciole
copy of the building elevation so that the Planning Cornmission
and City Council could review the size antl dimensions of the pro-
posed building. It was also requested verbally and in wriEing to
iubmit 12 copies of the site pIan. In fact, staff offered Eo
reproduce the blue prints on our blue print machine. As of
writing this report, the applicant has not submitted the reprodu-
cible.
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER A}ID IIENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
COND ITIONA],USE PERMIT
1. Permit. Subject to the terms and conditions set
forth herein, the city of chanhassen hereby grants a conditional
use permit for: Contractorrs yard activities
2. Ploperty.The permit is for the follorcing described
Chanhassen , Carver County, Minnesota:property in the City of
See attached Exhibit A
3 Cond it ions - The permit is issued subject to the
following cpnditions:
1. That a structure be erected on site in conformance with thesetbacks of the R-Ia District and in cpnformar,"" ,iif,-i:_fbuilding code requirements Uy tune-i0, I9g6.
2. All vehicles shal1 be stored inside the structure.
3. A11 unlicensed vehicles, ritter and debris sharl be removedfrom the site by December 1, 19S,.
4. ExlEnsion of the contractor's yard activity beyond what hasbeen represented in this appliiaiion must ir" ui,pro".d-Uv .conditional use permit
5. Annual review by the city.
4. Termination of Permit. Th e City may revoke the
permit following a public hearing under any of the following
circumstances: materiaL change of cpndition of the neighborhood
where the use is located; violation of the terms of the permit.
-)r3..5. Criminal Penalt Violation of the terms of this
conditional use permit is a criminal misdemeanor.
Dated:r{, t?!f
CITY OF CHANIIASSEN
By:z:*7
I !layor
By:Its C erk
STATE OF MINNESOTA))ss
COI'NTY OF CARVER )
@ g rns,{u,trument was acknowleil19trf, by Thomas
ged before me thisL. Hami 1ton,Mayora Min
Don Ashworth, City Mana ger of the City of Chanhassen,municipal corporation,on behalf of the corporation.
ary Pu
Thtlay of
, and
neso ta
e for ego rn
S;'mmw
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BUILDING PERMIT APPL ICAIION
Date:
less I
0wner
Address !
Contractor:
I1-, {',// s ingle Family.
4til (r-t
z2--..,
d--^--<-<2,.-
Address:
Lot Nos_ Block Nor_ Subdivision:
Parcel Identification No:
Estinated Completion Date:
Phone:
Section No:Nl:- s|:- zoning District:
NEI{ OI{ELLING
Val.uatioo of Ho e Excludinq Land!
Squate Footagel
Explain:
APPRoVAt 5!
lst Floor:_ 2nd Floor:_ lrd Floor:4th Floor:
oil! _ Gas:_ Electricr_ Forced Air!_ Hot l{ater:_
No. of. I Bathsr No. of t/4 gaths:_ No. of FuLr Baths:_ No. of Bedtoorm:
No. of Fileplaces!_ Type - Mason.yr_ Metal:_ other!_
Basement Finished:_ Explain:
Is a variance required: yes No If so, has variance been approved: yes
_Unfinishedr
',a!
J
70zAG-<-
THIS I5 AN APPLICATION FOR A BUILDING PERI'III AND NOI TO BE MISUNOERSIOOD AS IHE ACTUAL BUILOING PERMII,
I+IE UI\IDERSIGNED HEREBY AGREES IO DO ALL liORK
EPAR IMENI.
IN ACCCRDANCE 'ilIIH IIIE OROINANCES OF IHE CITY OF CHANHASSENAND IHE RULINGS IHE BUILDI
Signatu Address:
felephone No.:Home)ttlr++*ft+r**
6)
FEES:
Permit Fee
Pl an Check Fee
State Fee
sAc
Seliec Surch6aqePatk Dedrcati on FecIrail Dedication Fee}lete. Uni tsere. tlni tInterest
liatet I'letei
$
Burlo rnq Uffu c ral
lre r sna
v anner
sse ssoent etk
atk and fl ecreaalon
annrng eJse
TOIAL t
GENERAL INiORMAT T NN
RESIDENIIAI D\,{'I I Yrh_-_-__=-- j j=:!_i, j.::1
Hultiple Dnelling!_ No. or Units:
Site
Heatinq Systen:
Air Conditioning:
Iotal:
Yes No
Garage: Attached Detached luck_under Dimensions
MISCELLANEOUS II.IPROVEMENTS.
Value of Improvement:/--^-4
Alterr Repair. Addition:
412
( Work /*/y'o
l3
-.-- x€,ar€ T H LUXO!tt62rPtot
32 ROOS
4Orodr I Srod! :ROAD 32 rods
OAVID C. TRUMBLE ltol
8( t5r, P 4t2
62.65.4.
6 ?;1
rods
..-.-'
1
...{
LUCIAN 5. TRUMBLE ETO I
BK r52, P 201- ?O7
\
!
\
$
,\.h
0
(
I s
\v
\
z
Iz4I
Go
F
(J HOWARD S. BOLEY
cTF No. 18 3l
ELMER CARLSONJ
BK 86, P 316 t
)..
32 rodg
o3l
s
oo(,
=v
z
9
E.to:
trJ -z;
fu@zul(,
MORSE AVENUE HOLDING CO
DOC NO. 73501
i.)
8r
.,t
o
rod6 -.
Council Meeting, Noveober 4, lgBj
I
-9-
That a structure be erected
of the R-IA District and in
nents by June 10, I986.
on site in confornance rith the setbackg
conformance *ith all bui.ldinq code require-
I 2. All vehicl es shal I be stored inside the structure.
unlicensed vehicles, litter, and debrig shall be renoved fro0t
site by Decenber I, I985.
t All
the
Expansion of the contractorrg yard actj,vity beyond
represented i.n this applicstion nust be approved by
use permit.
rhs t has been
a conditional
Notion !i6s seconded by
Hami I ton, Councilvlofien
votes. llotion carried.
by the City.
Counci lronsn Steneon. The follorinq
tf atson and Sreneon, Counci Imen Horn
voted in favo!: Isyor
and Gevi.rg. No negative
,. Annual revier
Z0NING 0RD I NANCE ATIENDMEN T T0 ALLOTI DENSIFIEO REFUSE DERIVED FUEL FACILITIES AS A
CONOITIONAL USE IN ]HE P-4 DI5TRICT:
Mavor Hamr l ton !The Planni.ng Commission revier,ed this and passed it
CounciLithout comment other than to s.y that they thought that the
be studied further. I certainly agree trith thst. Vthat I rould Iike
s comnittee of four people to do a rather quick but thorough study of
ref use derived fuel facilities. Lould like to appoint a commi.ttee
Pst Srenson, Bill Ryan and myself to do a gtudy on this issue.
on to the City
subject should
to do i8 appoint
the densi f ied
of Dal e Geving,
if rie do
thst it be
qa.b aq e in
il councilwoman snenson moved to table this item for a pe.iod of too months so that the
committee that ras appointed by Mayor Hamilton (Councillro,nan Swenson, Councilrnan
Gevinq, Bill Ryan and Mayor Hsmilton) can research this matte. fuEther. l,loti.on was
9econded by Councilman Horn. The folloring voted in favor: Layor Hamilton,
councilvromen t{etson and swenson, councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative voles.
Motion carried.
Coun ci l roma n }{atson ! As
consider such a thing in
Carvet Countyrs re fuge .
from Hennepin County to
a meober of the Solid l{aste Advisory Committee,
Carver County that i. f this is going to be done,
Letrs solve our orrn problems and not be hauling
be used here.
t
APPROVE FINAL PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR SOUTH LOTUS LAKE (PHASE I) AND BOAT
ACCESS:
lla.k (oeqler! The utility improveoents that ate going to be involved, sta.ting rithganitary sewer, there rieae two elenentg From the extension oF the santsry selrer in
this project all of v.hich {ere attributable to Mr. Bloo bergrs development. There is
an extension f.on this point to this point of the existing gravity line, rhich provi-
des service to Lots I and 2 of Block l. There *as the additionel improvement whi.ch
occurred dovrn belotr nhich rould cone up through the psrk property and then go off
this direction lrhich prov.ides sanilary serer service to Lhe balance of the Bloomberg
property as well as this Lot I and BIock ), nhich tras added to the final plst. So
the sanita.y selrer is put in entirely for the benefit of the .esidentisl development
itself. None of the the costs, therefo.e, are attributable to the park. Looking atthe strgglg' the streets break do'.n into a couple of major segnents. rheae 6re trodifferent street patterns. liith the pork, thc psving thst iE there rill bc part ofthc Arqnt. South Shore Drive cooing in is 8 rl foot, beck to back stsect. Thr Hill
4
Council t{eeting, Novenber 4, l9A5
Gevino:noticed a yea t a9o
that coraect ?
-8-
I
Is
you listed five vehicles. Norr you indicetethst you hsve ten.
lIr gglEgg: Yes.
PutPoses riqht noi,
Counci I Esn Gevinq !
vehicle on thei,r lot
llsyor H€lt|iltonr l{hst
l,lr, Carl aon ! The oldput on
Hayor
I have sotne that
l{e donrt alrays
ate
use
not I icensed and
then.
I am using thell| as gtorage
Ta person iho haE a
Barb Dacv! Yes. An unlicensed vehicle i.9 algo in violation of the nuissnce ordi_nance. If it is not being used and it is not licensed it can be considered a9 s junk
vehicle. I believe the Commission 's intent ylss that l{henever vehicles o. l{hatever
machines' etc. are used in conjunction with the applicantts business thst the ulti-mste objective ia to have the building on site and to put that material i.nside so itcannot be geen. Sometimea people restore old vehicleg irithout 6license.
L et
to
me ask the staff, B8rb, can the City force
have it licensed if they doo't uee it?
Councilman Gevinq. Hy fee.Iing, Hr. and
in buainess in Chanh6ssen and hopefully
see you gtay
Counci lrolnan l{atson: How biq of a building did you hope to erect to cover theselnsterisls.
l,lr. Carlson! l{e a.e looking at about 50'to 60'ride and I00'
Mr9. Carlaon, is
lre can lrork this
do you do rith these old c6rs?
cals do not have to be there.
i f something happens to then.
I rould Iike to
thing out.
150 I I on9.
the other cars
l{e use parts
They can go,I&milton! Ilhat busi.ness are you in?
f'lr . C6rl son ! Excavatinq.
Mayor Hamiltonl So the junk cars could go,
that doesn't pertain to aanyray. Anythinq
Counci lYroman
they are not
contractor i s
pa.t
yard
Sxenson: I just think N,e have to do something because this has been
moved to approve the Conditi.onsl Use perlllit
at 4l4I Kings Road, Cerlson Excsvating iith
of a contractorrs yead
should not be there.
,84-1.9 for I
the fol I oring con-
delayed nuch too Iong. The other people have been told to conform and they have con-
forored. I am pleased to hear that the Carlson's are ready to do somethirig about it.
I donit find the Planning Commission's .ecomnendationa at all rest.ictive. I just
rant to enphasize the intensification situaLion, Barbara. l{e rrant to be very sure
th.t this does not grori. rhe appl icant does knor thst any buildinq that is noved
onto the premises nust be confo.ltling to our ordinance, doea he not?
Earb Dacyt Yes. he does.
Councilman Gevin.t:
and this site. A
r{ould like to have
ho ve hsd instences
like to see snothe
that Yre do an annu
I vrant to make sure !hat tre have recent photos of this facility
part of our condition is thst it ril t not be an exp6nded atee. I
a vehicle list, and in sddition to that, pictures of the srea, We
in the past where this haa been very helpful to us. I nould also
t condition placed on the Planning Commission's .eeomnendationg
al revietl.
Councillltan Geving
Contractot's Yard
ditions3 T
Councilnan
off Lhe old csrs to
that is no problem.
Counci l tleet
CONDITIONAL
Bs rb Da cy !
i{innerashta
198 4, a zoni
diti.onal use
staff to hav
procegS and
Datter rras t
infornation
Yeat has tra
provided the
fencing and
dation at th
continue con
s.i, te in con f
vehicles mus
debris nust
conttactor t s
be approved
Councillnan
anyone lrho
pl a nni ng fo
application
it Irould h6
is difficul
lihen throug
real I y aski
isnrt unsiq
|{Ants to bu
position ni
tion. That
ha ppens to
there be an
conditional
applicant r
Earb Dacy:
iog, Nove0ber 4, 1985 _7_
USE PEnMII F0R A C0NTRACT0R'S YARD, CARLS0N EXCAvAIING. 4l4l (INGS R0ADrThe site is located south of and adjacent to King's Road, west ofParkx€y in the l{estern part of the City. As you recall, in August ofng ordinance aoendment was psssed to allow a contractor'9 yard 69 a con_in the R-1A Dist.ict. Also, part of the Council action v,as to directe alL exigting contracto.rs yards come through the conditional use pe.mitthat r6a completed laat f8lI. The Carlson,s appl ied last fall and theabled at the Planninq Connission level so that sdditional site plans andas to screening could be developed betreen stafF 8nd the applicant. Anspired and re have net t.ith the applicant on a couple of occasiong. lleepplicant rrith inforOetion ss to the coat of a pole bern, thc cost ofthe applicant has nor reapplied. The ptanning ConDiBsionra reeolIoen_e laat meeting nas to recomoend approval of the conditional u9e permit totEactor's yard activities subject to l) that a structure be erected onorDance rith the setbacke of the R-IA Diatrict by June ,0, t9B6i 2) allt be stored inside the structurei f) all unlicenaed vehicles, litter, andbe removed fron the site by December I, l9B5;8nd 4) expansion of theya!d activity beyond |rhat has been represented in the appli.cetion nustby I conditional use pernit.
Gevinq: I remeEber the applicsnt cotring before us in the past snd re hsdhad a contr.ctor,s yard cone before us and re could get a handle onr the comnunity. This ia the lsst one that cane in. Had this original
cone in after or before re had gone through this hole process, I thinkve been s different story. I rould like to see e building out there. ttt for us aE a Council to force an applicant to sctually build 6 buildinq.hout the discussion and the history of this application; and 6ll rs s1gng them to do is to screen the area, fence or berri the area so thst it
htly. That i.s really xhat vre a.e looking fo.. llhether the applicant
ild a building or not, that is entirely a diffe.ent natter. His financisl
ght be extrenely di,ffe.ent than it ras when he oade his original applics_time he wanted to buitd and the City v.ouldn,t let him build. IhateverthiE Site, I would I ike to see it be cleaned up, Lould like to see thatennual inspectron ol al|y contracLorrs yaad ,.hether it is approved ae auae o! oot. I donrt get the impression right nor nhether oD not thiseally rants to buitd this facility r do you kno{ , Barb?
The appli.cants are here tonj.ght.
Councillnan Gevinq: ls it
u3e
i
L
val fo.
ba rn ?
a conditional
Is tha t your
your intentLon, l.lr. Carlson, that if you were to getpermrt for this site that you rrould actual ly build a
ap,rro-
pole
Present plan?
llt. Cerl son:Yes. I
drifting
live on the south
problem.
side of the road. A fence or a berm Houldj ust ca use
Counci I nan
yoU prefer to find a building and rllove it
ha rd to do.
a
Gevinq: So yout ptesent plan
in
to burld.
the re and
I ke pt teadrnq in here
reConsttuct it. Iha t
that
oight be
lila. Carlson: I heve been florking llith a fellon and he h6s cone up with sooe nrcebuildings.
Councilman Cevinq: If you do that, it hos
donrt kno|. if9oio9 to move s building. I
Xr. Ca.lsont It nould be e.ected.
to come before
you rould move
the Counc i I
it intact.
because you a!e
r
I
IL
PJ.ann i ng
November
Page 12
t
Commission MinutesI4, 1984
(
Public Hearin Conditional Use Permit Re uest #84-19 forContractor I s Yard Act !vr ties on Property Zoned R-Agr icuItura.LRes i denc e District and located at 4141 K rngs Road , CarlsonExcavatinqAppl i can i
{
Public present
[tr . Carlson
David TrumbleDoris Brickley
Dacy replied thaf the City canaction to force compliance.
not meet the
Dacy explained that the applicant is applying for conditional usepermit approval for the continuation oi-contiactor,s yard activi-ties on the premises. She stated that the applicant ir""-S--vehicles, retains one employee, and the houri- ot operaiion are8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.T. but may.vary. She stated tiat the appli_cant does not have adeguate existing structures on site to -house
the vehicles. She recomrnended the ipplicant construct anaccessory building or confine one area of the site as an outd.oorstorage area and provide substantial screening on aLl sides ofthe storage area. she recofiunended a completi6n date of september1, 1985. She stated that this would reduce the visual impact ofthe contractor's yard on the neighborhood. she stated ttrai ttreyard is littered with piles of debris, o1d machinery, unlicensedvehicles and other waste material which d.etracts fr6m theappearance of the property. she stated that the appricant shoutdremove aII waste materials by June l, 1995
carlson stated that -when_ he first requested to buiLd an accessorybui1ding, he was denied by the City Council and now staff isrequesting him to buiId. He stated that it would be too costlyto build today and years ago he could have afforded it. ge aliomentioned that it is hard to keep the contractor rs yard clean butfelt he could do a better job and r^,ould start doing so. He alsoasked if everyone had Lo go through this process.
Dacy stated that everyone has to apply for a conditional use per_mit for a contractor's yard and that several operations have beencontacted. She also. stated t.hat the applicant had two options,either build a building or screen one area of the yard.
Robert Wilson questioned if this conditional use permit would bereviewed annually or if it would be granted and never checked on.
Dacy stated that the applicant must meet the conditions of thepermit, and in this case, the recommended deadlines.
Carlson asked about what would happen if he diddeadline .
issue cit.ations and begin court
4141 Kings Road415I Kings Road
4380 Parklawn , MinneapoliS
Plann i ng
November
Page 13
Commission Minutes14, 1984
\
Carlson asked if thereaLlowed to have.
is a limited number of vehicles he is
Dacy stated that if thereprompt another review andditional use permit.
Dacy stated that a
ac compl i s hed .
IS
he
significant intensi fi cat ion , itwould have to apply for another
rri 11
con -
Doris Bickley stated that Carlsonbuilding to screen or cover aII ofthe dirt road was very dusty r.rithand said that this yaid was-an eyedone about it.
could not build a big enoughhis vehicles. She stated-thatvehicles going up and dordn itsore and something should be
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Albee to close the public hearing.AII voted in favor and the ,noiion cariiea.
A1bee stated that the visual impact of this propertydous and stated that asking the'applicarrt to ,"rnorr"and vehicles by June 1, 1985 ,r" " i.ry jun".o.r".
Merz asked if there would be abehind the property line rathertron t .
way to store the vehicles fartherthan having them right out in
(
was horren -the debris
be
to
Carlson stated that the property in back slopes and is to steepto do that. He stared that theie are i.r, u"iri.tu= "n-rri" pi"p_ertv and if he buirr a. buirding the majoritv "i
-"." i.r." -
"5irastored in it, however he stated that h6 was denied it.-..qi"==tbuild such a building several years ago.
Conrad stated that he preferred the applicantbuilding rather than just ""r.uni"q UEIl"se itbefore screening would cover tr,"-=ig[t-"i t1.,"
Noziska asked Mr. Carlson ifof cleaning the debris.he could meet the September deadline
Carlson stated that he could. He asked if he wanted to constructa building r,rould the counci I p..",ii-'f,i. to do so.
Dacy stated that constructing a building is being recommended.
conrad stated that he would like staff and Mr. Carlson to worktogether on this- He would rite to see a sorution that would begood for Mr. Carlson, staff and the neighUorhoo;:- -"-- --"
to construct acould take yearsvehicles.
combination of fencing and plantings could be
request
A11 voted in
!9:i:f" moved, seconded by J. Thompson to table thisuntil more definitive inf ormation--!i"--U. received.favor and the nption carried.
(
Steven Bmlings, Robert Siegel , Bill Ryan, Iadd Conrad, HolrardNoziska and Mi.ke Thompson.
MEMBERS ABSENT
Chairman Ryan ca11ed the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m
MEMBERS PRESENT
None
STAEF PRESENT
Barbara Dacy, City planner and Vicki ChurchiIl, Secretary.
PUBLIC HEARING
Conditional Use Permit to allow a contractor t s yard activity onroertzoned R-Ia,rl cultural Resid ence and located at 4L 4I1nq s Road ,Carlson Excavat LnQ r appli cant
Public Presen t
Mr
A]
and llrs. Car I son
K1i ngelhut z
Mr. Carlson statedgotten out of handstated that he hasonly ones that have
Ryan asked hirn if he
a bu ilding ?
appl i can t
Dacy stated that this item was tabled from last fa1l until moreinformation coul-d be received about what type of screening mecha-nisms were going to be employed on site to screen the conlrac_torrs yard. equipment and vehicles. She staLed that staff metwith the applicant on a couple of occasions regardinglandscaping costs and the possible location of-a poli barn. Shestated- that the City ALtorney's Office notified tie applicantthat they had to wrap up their application in the neai'future andcoosequently they reapplieo. she stated that staff has notreceived any more information as of this date than they had lastfall and staff is recommending that we resolve this matter assoon as possible.
that as Ear as a ner,r buiLding, the pr j.ces
and he is looking for a used building. Uesomeone looking right now for him, but thebeen available have been fairly sma.L1.
hav e
could meet the deadline of December Ist for
Mr. Carlson stated that he did not kno$, but he was not going tobuy a brand new building. He stated that as far as cleaning upthe place, he has cleaned up the south side of his property: Hestated that he wants to put the vehicles in the barn. He statedthat they all work but he does not want to license aII of them.
,-ilil t ( rr '.. i :t-;7
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGUI,AR MEETING
ocToBER 23, 1985
Planning Commission Minutes
October 23, 1985
Page 2
Mr. Carlson stated that he applied for a building permit for apole barn in 1973 and the city denied it. He $ra s aoncerned thatonce he found a building the city would not 1et him put it onsite.
Dacy stated that the objective of this application is to have astructure on site. she explained that if the pranning commissionand City Council approves the conditional use permit 6e wil1 beable to qonstruct the building.
Ryan stated that the commission is also concerned about the cleanup of the property.
Mrs. Carlson stated that the lower area is aII cJ.eaned up.
Dacy staLed tbat the vehicles are siill being stored on siteadjacent to Kings Road -
Ryan stated that realIy the only conditions were to clean up theproperty and that no expansj.on of the activity occur.
Mr. Carlson stated that you canrt be in business unLess youexpand. He stated Lhat a business is like any other joU', it youget a promotion, you move up, nobody holds you down. He statedthat there are bound to be.a few ching"s, ai far as equipment,you get rid of some and gain some-
M. Thompson asked if the site has improved sioce l-ast fall?
Dacy felt that it has not changed. She stated that they havecleaned up some of Lhe area. She stated that the pri.*iiy i"",_r"is to screen the vehicles.
? stated that he has lived next to Mr. Carlson foraEout ZO to-75 years and_ !ir"v i,""" ii,r"V" gorren along fine. Hestated that he also recarrs when the ci.iy iefused him-a permit tobuild a barn. He stated that he has no problem if the ,6hi"I"sare stored inside and fert that Lhere wourd be no problemi in theneighborhood. He also stated that his onry question is ir irrisus9 is a lega1 use in a residential area. He stated he did notthink the use would be good for the road.
Eruninqs stated that in 1973 contractor r s yard activities were notpermicted uses and that was the reason foi deniar of the buildingpermit..
Dacy stated that contractor's yard activities lvere not allowed asconditional uses until August ot fSCa.
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Bnmings, to close the publichearing. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
M. Thompson stated that the applicant has the aLternative ofstoring vehicles and equipment at another site. He felt thatbased on the experience they had with the applicant one year agohe doesn't feel their intent was to comply witn tfre cityis wisiesand feels the application shoul-d be denied.
Conrad asked M. Thompson wtrat would be accomplj.shed by denyingthe permit?
M. Thompson stated that he does not think thatcontractor's yard in that area and would denyprinciple and there is no criteria in which toshould be a contractor's yard.
Planning Commission MinutesOctober 23, I98 5
Page 3
Siege1 asked what has been done inpermits when the applicant cannot
mended?
past on cond i t ional-conditions that are
it should be ait as a maLter ofestablish why this
use
re coln-
Conrad stated that Chanhassen is growing and the Commission istrying to mooitor some of the businesses that we d.o not have a1ot of control of and can become offensive. He also stated tothat in the application is stated what the applicant has or wantsand that shoul-d not be expanded from that. He stated that lheapplicant can come in and apply for expansion in the future andthe Commission will take a look at it.
the
meet
Dacy stated that all of the previous contractor's yard con-ditional use perrnits have been approved. She stated that ifconditional use permit was denied, the applicant would not beable to operaLe his business from the site. She stated thatapplicant wou]-d have the right to pursue that in court. Shestated that she felt that the Carlson's are trying to conformirith the recornmendat ions , it is just that they cannot get thebuilding up before December Ist.
the
the
Siegel asked why screening the property lrith fencing and vegeLa-tion could not be accomplished in a more economical fashion
rather than putting up a new building? He stated that Mr.
Carlson is a contractor, where he coufd build a berm, plant
vegetation and put up a fence.
Mr. Carlson stated that if a fence was put up, snow drifts into
the yard on the inside of Lhe fence and block the driveway. He
stated that some places are 2\2 feet lower than the road and a tenfoot Eence would have to be put up to screen the lower area.
Mrs. Carlson sLated that an estimate
landscape screening and it was about
have a pole barn for that amount.
was done on fencing and
$6,000 and they wou1d rather
Planning Commission Minutes
October 23, 19 85
Page 4
Emmings felt that the permit should be granted with staffrsrecorunendations exceot say that any expansion would be limited byhis abilit.y to keep it under the roof, in terms of equipment. Hefelt that the condition of a structure being erectea 'uy' oe-emuer1st should be extended to nine months because of the wintermonths. He felt that they are trying to comply. tte stated thatif at the end of nine monlhs if the londitions- are not met thepermit would be revoked and then at that time reassess for viola-tions and possible litigat ion.
Ryan felt that the applicantrs current neighboractivity. He stated that he would like to seethe conditional use permit. He stated that thebusiness can be stored on site for a reasonabl-ebecause it will be expended to the job site.
Conrad. moved, seconded by Siegel-, toapprove Conditional Use permit #84-19ditions:
That a structure be erected on site in conformance with Lhesetbacks of the R-la District by June 30, 1986
is supporting histhe applicant getmaterials for hisperi.od of time,
recommendwith the
the Cityfollowing Coun ci 1
con -
1
2
3
A11 vehicles shall be stored inside
NEW ZON II.IG ORD TNANCE INFORI4ATI ONAL I\,IEETING
PLANN TNG COMMISSION VACANY
the structure.
debris sha11 be removed
beyond what hase approved by a
A1l unlicensed vehic]-es, Litter, ancifrom the site by December 1, 19g5.
4. Expansion of the contractorr s yard activitybeen represented in this application must bconditional use permit
Noziska, Conrad, Ryan, Siegel and Emmings votedfhompson abstaine<i. Motion carried..in favor. M
Dacy stated that the Business community will be notified of thenew draft and hritt be invited to the n-ext planninq CorunisJio,meeting for any comments or questions ttrey have.
Dacy stated that staff has advertiseo in the carver county Heraldfor the vacancv on Lhe commission but has received ;-;;;;o;"".staff was directed to readvertise in the Herard, the sai.r-or andthe South Shore News -
Conrad moved, seconded by Noziska !o adjourn the flEeting at 9:30p.m. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried-
' \ ;/')// / zz
nEouIaB pl,{till]Iic Co}!}trssloli I.tSEEIItc irritit 12-. 1g73
0te neeting rias called ..
lere _presenir: Jim lfi-eLl omer \'- chai::'uca ,oT.ro.l::1}::.
. The : cilorriaS rip4be,s
ffi ##:i,illti#i;.T:ilp,1h,?rJ:.8ff ;";t:i*tlt"lHH;;r=,
I,IO,UTES: A ,.ction "= yi:, !r-, Ira' lre:i:st 6::.! s?_co::C.3., -rT.. t!-:;1 S;cne to apl::or..:we !aJ-22 ' igTir reeure: pta,:r:i':-r:l; c".*,r"ui",
"irruro" " Iic;:ci: uaiurir,rool p-
"iprr.."_.
ft.ff-,l't';ffi1?;'*xtu?i,ffi i;; if, il;';.:*::rcrr1.::r13?iui,3sBi,p,i'triai;nr:
$'f #'*31*:.ffi"i;F;;fi l#i;il"ll.t"#.*ll?i"X'i'"1:,#H:H=J.;L
_..*El$nffi kiil,,:::trffi .;::"#.:#li:Hi";.:,3:il::;ff ,;y,",
L
IIIUSEt:pv'[nJ.C ]:A.B SC}tr[I;3:].:rs,. lLci:ari :::ncit appeen:ti bs jc-r= tii,c j J-a:n:.:1"
C,te 1=iO 'ro: --. . r.,
s5l,c11 reques per::isrou tc nicTe a J:cL1.s= li1ia Cne:tasse.i-Tb::Loca teC ro Bar.dvieLL ii_c scatr cf Si,ats Mgr:r.l:p.aca 1.'3s; c'i Hazeltl-::3on orioLe T.1no. The hous is ,[2 r i.J2the Sci:.:Eidt t s p]'3n tc i5:i :.-t up ar:sei.f 2sr EC ile rO'red b::. tii'--i:.-
1:on: ncignbo rl sll tc:iIhe PJ,endng Cocmission as.l:ed lirs" Sci:-r:dt. t{-. :Zet l.c_r,tel,,they are asa:e of nh:.i; is happe;ii.r3,.
.-i., fir.g itouse ir
ou:-l--5-ri;; i= to be r:set- j c:.,
A notien iras Eade b:i lra: il-root_ c::r secc!:ieo. i:5 r.::.i:-_ie fri:a i;itt ;re !l-al,,_:.tCoruissjon recoracnC tire Ccurcr. rL:r-".-i'J"iiai.ng p.r:.:ri... zc? ,r|._c liiciri:.-.Ssll.!:dt: s on lot L Tie Sct:-"ci;:s';ir;; ;";; iiile ncriie is on ih.j sii;s ,r.ofiaisb and tlanrrsgeeg it m"tiin "iir rr.o,.iil" "* iil]ri", .,rorr_rr:s11,- ;pp:or-ci"
PI'BI.IC iEI.FJi.r COi IDTTION.:i USE PEH,ir L0;.8!L ctnisal:D3n i-e lbsii p:Est-i3i ,rel-porL]-O:l C r,:!eIJ-!Eo l]ls qLtes -c t {lethe structurc io nc t a tfpicaL accesso a'.: agri-ci:J-i:,:::'a-i use o.f ?:e -!.anl.,
-t I rcticn i.ras EEtdc b:,- Dc, iie:,bst a,-rj sccc:rlcd Liv ts;a Gabbe:,! iha; tno !.icn_n=I comission re"ouo.rri= "rr. ccuncii auni-iii" i"i*iti.o::d. use !err.r-.r as ')reseaicc..
- tle folLord::r ,ctes uelE..cast : Anr-c ffbe--
'To.r-oebc::,0,
rii"r-Jlri#r,cri.n riier.Le.- ud Dai: Ecrbst rotec j:r.fevor". J":"-r-u=i..i='l-.i :=o-irr,ro*I'io;;i.;;1'"" i.:e:,,:_;e:.eI ot present ct th= piibLic uearjag. isiioir-c"ri"a.t rcasoDs ior urc recoEaend:<i d3n.ir1 ;3.11 1lbere are iruo garages on the pr.ooe rryr"
I :: .s e rdaleoousi,ng iry?o of opexatioit.I If e:p.-:r,r.ci li coufti b: useC icr,-;oair.
l POBIJC TLOATtrI JG COitriTI0:,tA.r. usn Fl:r:iil.llT 2 .- t+iTEt c i]IPi]lPitti::oYer j).:r:. Iler.i-.st o:esi-c-e cI Cans e r- ,rati:c::is i.dated riFr-.*l :1 , lg7)i Eai teed,.
i *i*:$l*;t ;$=:t;ru1l'ffi ;ir=::
,.-
I ffirttaff*%
CHANHASSEN VILLAGE COUNCIL MINUTES June 18, 1973
t UTIIITY EMPLOYMEN T CONiT: A motion wa.s mad.e by Council-man Neils andthe motion in the June 7 , 1973Dorsey. The following voted inncilmen Bennyhoff, ueils and woif.
seconded bSpecial Cofavor ther
No negativ
RAISE FOR JACK E RNST :bvc ounci Im an Neils toThe following voted inBennyhoff, Neils and Wo
TWIN HTLI,S PCA REPORT:
Parm.H e wiLl write athat were sent to the V
VILLAGE HALL REMODELING :second edbyC ouncilman NeHaLl remodeling. The foICouncilmen Bennyhoff, Nei
TELEPHONE - LAKE ANN PARK:
y CounciLman Wolf to recinduncil minutes on hiring Mikeeof: Mayor Klingelhutz, Coue votes. Motion carried.
-5-
on Twin Hil1s
two reports
by Councilman WoIflawn mower. The
Counci.l_men Bennyhof f ,
-
present to ask the Counc:100 ft. on his property.
by
.l-n
#ffi''.1",":ETi:i:i Tili :I":"H:*Ti:"":i";3:f
"ilun3ii3"3:u.3,
Nez pierce. rhe fotlowi.s .'rol.a i; f;;;;-il"r""r,";";;; iiingeLrutz,councilmen Bennyhoff, Neiis and w"it.-'r.r" negative votls. - l.lotion carried. _
A.lotlorr. was made by Councilman Wolf and secondedgr.ve Jack Ernst a 50C per hour i.ncrease in pay.favor^_thereof: l,layor Xlingeffrutz, C""".i:..""rr. No negatLve votes. Motion carried.
-The Village Attorney gave a reportletter to the pCA ackn6wledgi;;'ih;illage about the Twin EiIl r..ri. - -
A motion was mad.e by Councilman Bennyhoff andils. to rejecr arr uLa.-suu;il&";;"iiif'uru.s"lowingr voted in favor, rhere;i;- M;y.;"ilingelhutz,1s and Wolf. No negatj.ve votes. Motion carried.
3 yC
Theff,
A motion was made by Councilman Wolf and. sec_f to have. a rerephoie ln=taiieJ--at-iixJ'irnn favor thereof: Mayor
. K1ing"ff."t", "d"""cil_man
No negative votes. irotion ";r;i;J:'
'-*
onded b
Park .
Bennyho
ouncilm
f o1l-ow
Nei 1s
.an Bennyhofing voted iand Ivol-f -
ffi:.{:iI";i:l.::::"i:,oI":;":;,iil:ilg:*:"3#.:::"il*:.for gr',995.00 with a rurr ,riittei-i"i."I.v. rrris stroura--u""p,rt in the parkmaintenance budset ror re74- -r;; iIiil#r"g_"9a;; ii-i"i"i=tnereof: Mayor[:;ffir::::i"S]"""rr^"n Bennyhoff , N;ii; and trr/olf . No nesarr.ve votes.
A moti.on was made bv CounciLman Bennyhoff and secondedto issue a erarrant ior payment or tirl new Roof 50 inchfollowing voted in favor thereof: il"r", . Ktinge-Ihutz ,Neils and wolf. No nesarive-;;;;"."*ilJiro, carried-
LOifELL CARI.SON-PUBLTC HEARING :fo r a Condi tionaL Use ermrt for Lovrell Carfson wasa structure 40 xP
A moti-on was made bv councir-man wor-f an. seconded by councilman Nei.r.s todenv the requesr of a^condirio',"i-u-!"*iJ.^it u.-p.;.,pi#i;; commissionm'nutes of June L2, ts73- rr,"-'ririliirr! ,rot"J-ii-i""ii"'ti!I."r, Mayorfi*flg*"!X*;i"3:""i1'un Bennvhoff, Neils and worf. No nesarive votes.
as:iffiffi *: !iiliii:i".il"*i,?1"3:T:i:I::""=:,::ff .ilij";:i?"t"meet r.rith Chaska in regards to tfre';.-;;:y property. The following votedf:"::":i:;:"i;."f,";"lijF:j::::i.IIIijl',*". nennyhorr, ,,eirs ",,a worr.
I
frIlfurhug-If+,
The size of Lhis building is equal
mercial or industrial building in
induscrial districts -
the s i ze of a t.yoical com-cityt s commercial and
CITY OF
EEif,I[IIf,SSE![
;Ianuarv 26, 1988
}{r. Lowell Carlson414I Kings RoadExcelsior, MN 55331
Dear Mr. Carlson:
I mec with t.he City AtLorney on January 2l , 1988, regarding Vourapplication for a 12,000 square foot pole barn building on yourproperty. In reviewing the conditional use permit that wasgranted to you by the City Council on November 4, 1985, theattorney advised that because one of the conditions required theconstruction of the building prior to June 30, 1985, and because
the size of Lhe ouilding is large enough Lo constituLe an expan-
sion of the contracEorrs yard actsivi-ty, your applrcation rnust be
revierved by the Planning Commission and Ciry Council.
Please be advised that the city is currently evaluating an ordi-
nance arnendrnent to limit the size of buildrags sucir as the oneyou are proposing to be limited to 1,000 square feet. Because of
Ehe oature of your use, hov;ever, the Planning Commission and City
Council nay consiiler waiving that requirement gj.vea the tremen-
dous storage needs that you have. The next available Planning
Comrnission rneeting is February 17, 1988, at 7:30 p.m. here at.
City Ha1I. upon recommendat.ion by the Planning Commission, the
maEter would be considered by the City Council at Lhe March 14,
1988, neeting.
to
the
Because of Ehis facL, the Building Departlnent r'ri1l require struc-
tural caLculations to analyze Ehe beam and truss detaiLs and al;o
proper ioocing calculations, and wa11 and roof framing cross sec-
tions. As wai discussed when you were in the of r-ice, you need to
submit a siLe plan showing the location of Ehe bui}ding on the
property as well as any grading activity to be conducted on the
site. Runoff from the building would also oeed to be addressed.
t
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Mr. LowelI CarlsonJanuary 26, 1988
Page 2
Sincer elY,-
4^-/-t--'/'
Therefore, in order for the pranning commission and city councirreview you should submit a site prai strowinq tt," piop""la-io""-tion of the buildino on site, ".EUi.r."l- proposed grades, etc.Twelve addirional c5pies .r ir,"-u-"iia'iiq prun" shour,i arso besubmitted (7 for the planni:rg Co.missiciers and 5 for the CityCouncil members ) .
Barbara DacyCity Planner
BD: v
fs, br*,fl,
,
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eT|^ufu\ f a ft'A4
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3
CITY OF
EHINHISSE}I
P.C. DATE: Feb. 17, 1998
C.C. DATE: March 14, 19gg
CASE NO: 78-6 CUP
Prepared by: Dacy/v
STAFF REPORT
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ko
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PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
Permit Request for Tenporary Office
1560 Arboretum Boulevard
Conditional Use
Space
Natural Green, Inc.Mr. David Luse
1660 Arboretum B1vd.
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RR, Rura.I Residential Di str i ct
5 .55 acres
N,/a
RRi rural res idential
IOPi vacant industrial
RRi rural res idential
RRi rural res idential
Municipal services are not avaj-Iab1e tosite.
The site slopes to a lower elevation tothe north to Riley Creek.
N-
S-
E-
w-
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Lor., Density Residential
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
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Natural creen CUP
February I7, L98A
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Landscaping contractorr s yards are not a permitted or conditir:rraiir-- i,, il.- !! 1: . : ,.; ,t: in which the site is located. The Cityentered into a settlement agreement with the applicant on
December 5, I983, which permitted continuation of the Natural
Green operation at the subject site until January 1, 1995, oruntil the property is sold whichever occurs first. Prior to andduring litigation, the city's ordinance did not permit
Iandscaping contractorrs yards. Given that the applicant is intransition to another site and only needs office space on a tem-porary basis, city staff advised him that a temporary conditional
use permit would be the applicable means by which they couldreceive consideration by the city. The applicant was made awarethat. Lhe city is currently in the process of repealing this pro-
vi sion.
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Building Department
Fire Department
DNR
Attachment #1
Attachment #2
If the well house on site utilizes
more t.han 10,000 gallons per day, it
must have a DNR permit. The floodelevaLion in this area is 943.7. No
strucLures sha11 be placed or grading
occur below this elevation.
City Attorney's Off ice
P ROPOS AL
The applicant has indicated thaL Natural Green is relocating to a
site in Chaska. Phase 1of moving the operation to Chaska is
nearly complete. Phase 2 which includes completing the entire
move will not be completed until March 15, 1989. During the
intervening year, the applicant indicates the need for temporary
office space at the Chanhassen site. The applicant proposes to
utilize a 1-2' x 46' mobile home for the office area. The appli-
cant indicates Lhat the structure was purchased from Sperry
Univac Corpora!ion which had used it for similar purposes.
The applicantrs site plan indicates location of the proposed
structure directly adjacent to the thro story house that is
currently being used as office area by the Natural Green
Attachment #3
NaE.ural Green CUP
f'eDruary 17, 1988
Page 3
1 Installation must conformChapter 1350.
Eo Minnesota State Building Code,
employees. It is proposed that an access be constructed con-necEing the home and the proposed structure. Currently, thereare approximately 8 employees that use the existing home as theoffice. There will oe additional employees using [.he proposedadditional office space.
Because the pending ordinance action has not become final todeLete Article VI , Section 4, the city accepteal Natural Greenrsapplication. Given the City Attorneyrs opinion (Attachment *3)and given city staff.s recommendation to delete this section ofthe ordinance, it would not be appropriate to recommend approvalof this application. This section oE the ordinance encouiigesapplications where any type of use could be 1ocated in anydistrict. This is contrary to the intent and purpose of -zoning.
The City Attorney also points out that this type of permit is -
contrary to state lavr. (The City Council also acted to deny atemporary conditional use pernit request for a bookstore in theA-2 District earlier this fa11.)
If the Planning Commission or City CounciL decides to approve thetemporary conditional use permiE., it is suggestedthat. the installation of t.he structure meet the Minnesoea StaceBuildi:rg Code, Chapter I350, regarding manufactured homes. Inessence, this means the structure must have the manufacturerrsseal, approgriate ground anchors rnust be installed, andappropriate piers must be installed for proper foundation(Attachnent #1). The Fire Department notes that an office usesuch as this woulal typically be reguired to be sprinklered. Uponfurther discussion with t.he Fire rnspector, becaise the structureis to be located on the lot.on a Eemporary basis, sprinkleiing isnot required. Eowever, it is recommended- that a heit or smokedetection oe installed in both buildings. There should be atleast one heat or smoke detector on each floor and two ia themobile home. The existj.ng two story .home has t\"ro means of entryand exit and there will be one entry,/exit from the mobile home.
RECOMMENDATION
Planninq sEaff recommends the planning Commission adopt thefollowing mocion:
"The. Planning Commission recommends denial of Conditional UsePermit Reguest #78-6 -for a temporary conditional o"u p.i.it torocate additionar office area it l6-60 arboretum Bouleizard forNatural Green, Inc.,,
Should the.Planning Commission decide to recomnend approval ofthe condiE.ional use permit, Ehe following conditions-irerecommended:
Natural Green CUP
February I7, 1988
Page 4
2
3
Inspection is required after the mobile home is established.
Submission of a building permit application including twosets of drawings verifying that the structure contains themanufacturerrs seal , and the anchor and pier designs meet the
Minnesota Stat.e Building Code.
4 Heat or smoke detection shall be installed
specifically two in the mobile home and. onethe existing structure.
No structure
contour.
in
on
both buililings,
each floor of
shall be placed or grading occur below the 943.7
t-
2
3
4
5
6
7I
Memo from Building Department dated February 2, I988.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated February 1, 1988.
Letter from Roger Knutson dated September 11, 1987.
Settlement agreement alated December 5, 1983.
Letter from David Luse dated January 20, 1988.
Application.Site plan stamped "Received January 28, 1988'.
Copy of pictures submitted by applicant in conjunction with
the appl ication .
Managers Comment: From the date of initial conEroversy over
whether Mr. Luse i{as operacing a "cree growing range through
final settlement, the City and Mr. Luse have rnaintained an ami-
cable rapport. During inicial operation, Mr. Luse purchased the
old railroad station and moveil it from its location on Great
Plains Boulevard. to the Natural Green site. The structure again
has been moved to Chaska as a part of Mr. Luse's change of busi-
ness locations. Operations in that area required that he move
the buiJ.ding. In conversations between Mr. Luse and the Mayor,
Mr. Luse stated that he would be willing tso allow the city to
move Lhe strucEure bacK to Chanhassen after he has completed his
move, i.e. after one year Mr. Luse will be able to cease opera-
tions in the trailer and will have sufficient building areas to
meet his needs in Chaska $rithout necessitating usage of the o1d
railroad station buildingr. In light of the various concessions
agreed Eo by Mr. Luse and the City during the past teo years, it
seems appropriate that we formally recognize Mr. Lusers offer as
a part of Ehe current conditions in the settlement agreement
( assumes approval ) .
I am not aware of any instances in the past where this office has
recommend.ed approval of a temporary facility such as currentlyproposed. I agree rlith the general comments of both the planner
5
ATTAC HMENTS
Natural Green CUP
February 17, L988
Page 5
Approval is recommended as outlined above.
and the City Attorney. However, the issue before the Council isquite distinct from any general type of temporary use applicationand could not readily reoccur. The application before Lhe Cityrepresents final resolution of a court settlement reached in1983. In essence, that seEtlement stated that both the City andthe applicant recognized that the existing use $ras not permittedand should not. continue to exist. The question posed in thesettlement agreement was how to ef fectuat.e ceasing operationsrecognizing the significant investment in place by Ehe owner. Theaction before the City Council at this point in time is solely afinal step in that settlement agreement where both parties areattempting to reach agreement as to hord the use can cease withoutimposing undue financial burden on either side. Although the per-mit woul-d be shown as a conditional use, this office wo,f1d recom-mend that the actual instrument to be used in binding both partiesto the one year period would be an addendum to the I9g3 settlement.
We would restate the purpose and intent of the 1983 agreernent analconclude that the approval being given is "temporaryr solely toeffectuaE.e that court settlement. I see no reison why Chat-adden-
dum agreement couLd not include the agreement of the owner toallow the movemenr of the railroad station back to Chanhassen as apart of the settlement agreement.
zr/,// ,/ ti
-?//7 /," ' -''?
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Department
FRolt: Buildins Department dql<^
DATE: February 2, L988
SUBJ: Planning Case 88-1, Conditional Use Permit
f woultl like to make the following comments in response to your
memo.
Installation must conform Eo Minnesota State Building Code,
Chapter 1350.
2. Inspection is requirerJ after mobile home is set up.
CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
I
flrzlr:tAwT#/
F'ltk:
1350.0100 \IAT"UFACTURED lIOllES
Subp. 57. Tie. "Tie" means a strap. cable. or securing device used to
connect the manufactured home to ground anchors.
Subp. 58. Utility connections. "Utility connections" means rhe connecrionof the manufactured home to exisring utilities including, bur not limired ro.
electricity, water, sewer. gas, or fuel oil.
Subp. 59. Vertical tie. "Vertical tie" means a tie inrended primarily to
resist the uplifting and overturning forces.
Subp. 60. Widrh of a manufactured home. ,.Width of a manufacrured
home". means.its-largest overall width in the traveling mode, including cabinets
andother projections which contain interior space. Width does not in;lude bay
windows. roof projections. overhangs, or eaves under which there is no interior
sPace.
Statutort Authority: MS s 327.33
135{t.0200 AUTHORTZATION.
Parts 1350.0100 to 1350.6900 are aurhorized by Minnesota Starutes, secrions
327.31 to 321.36 aad 327 -55 and established through the rulemaking proceuures
ser forrh in Minnesora Statutes, sections 14.02. A.A ro 14.36. 14.38.;;d 14.44 ro
14.45. to implemenr. interpret. and carry out the provisions of Minnesota
Statutes. sections 327.31 to 327 -36 and 327.55 relating'to manufactured hbmes.If these parts differ from the code promulgated by the American National
Standards Insrilure as ANSI AI19.1, or rhe- provisi-ons of the National Fire
Protection Association identified as NFpA 50li]. these parts shall govern in all
cases.
Statutory Aurhorit!: MS s 327.33
r350.0300 ENFoRCEII bNT.
The commissioner shall administer and enforce all the provisions of parts
1350.0100 to 1350.6900 and the code. Any authorized representative of theDepartment of Administration mav enter iny premises wiere manufacrured
homes are manufactured. sold. offered for saie.'parked in any manufactured
home purk in the srare. or installed in the state if the insrallation was matle afrer
September l. 1974. The authorized rcpresentxtive may examine any records andmav .inspect lny manufactured home. equipment. or installarions to ensurecomplirnce rvith rhe provisions of parrs 1j50.0100 ro 1350.6900 and the code.The authorrzed representative may requtre that a portion or portions of amanufactured home be removed or exposed in order ihat an inspccrion mav be
made to determine compliance. or require that all portions of an installation beremoved or exposed to make this determination.
Statutorr Aurhoriat: ,llS s 327.i3
CONSTRUCTION SEALS A1\*D LABELS
1350.0{00 REQUTRE}|ENT t'OR SEALS. CODE COi!|PLIANCE.
COiiS'I'RUCl'ION COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATES. OR LABELS.
Suboart l. Constntctiotl seals: code compliarrce; c(xtslruclion conrpliancecenifitrtes or labels. i\frer Jull l. 1972. no perion shall scll or offcr for .rule inthis statc anv manuflctured home nanufactuiecl aftcr Julv l. 1972: manuflcturr,.an-v manufacrured home in this state: or park anv manufactured homemanufacturcd aftcr Jrrlr l. 1972. in :rnv mlnuficrrrrc<l homc park in lhis state.unless the nr:rnufactur.id honrc complics rvith thc corle nntl ti.rc errmmrssir.rrtcr.srcvisions lo it. bcars a constructiorr seal issued hy the commissirrn"r. "J iailccornpilntcd ht a constructron c(rnrPlrJncc ecrtrfrcirc b\ thc manuflcturcr ordealcr. on a form issucd bv the continissioncr. h()th cridcncins rtr,,r it.,rntptiei''vrth thc c().ic. (,r if nrrnuficrurcd afrcr Junc 14. 1976. bcars "'fot"f ", ,"q,iii.aby thc sccrctarl.
6
conforming \rith. F-ede ral Spccification ee-S-7g lC. is capable of meerrng rhr$orklng load Jnd 50 percent overload spectfied hercin.
. Subp. 7. Tie connections, Ties shall connect rhe sround anchor tnd themain structural steel frame 1l-beam or other shape) whici runs lengthwise underthe mobile horne. Ties shall not connect to steel 'outrigger Ue"mr'*l,lf, f..ri*to and inlersect the main structural frame unless sid-cifically stared in rhemanufacturer's ins]allation tnstructions.
Connection of the cable frame tie to the mobile home l-beam or equivalentmain structural frame member shall be by a 5/8-inch drop forged closed eve boltthrough a hole drilled in the center of the t-beam web 6r orheruppi"r"Jmethods. The web shall be reinforced if necessary to maintain the'i-beam
st rengrh.
Cable ends shall be secured with at least three U-bolt type cable clampswith the U portion of rhe clamp installed on rhe short (dead) eni of the cable io
assure srrength at least equal to that required by subpart 6.
Statutory Authority: MS s 327.33
I3$.29M GROUND ANCHORS.
Subpart I. Placement and purpose. Ground anchors. including means forattaching ties. shall be located to effectively match rhe ancho;ng systeminstructions provided by the manufactured home manufacturer. or. if iheie arcno instructions. in accordance with the requirements of part 1350.2600. and shall
be desiened and installed ro transfer the anchoring loads-to the cround.
_ Subp. 2. Capacity of anchors. Each ground anchor. when installed. shall
be capable of resrsting an allowable working load at leasr equal to 3.150 pounds
in.the direction of the rre plus a 50 percent overload 14.725 pounds toral) wilhourfailure. Frilure shall be considered to have occurred
-when lhe poinr of
connection between the tie and anchor moves more than two inches at 4-725
poun-ds in the direction of the vertical tie when the anchoring equrpmenr rsinstalled in accordance rvith the manufacturer's instructions. -Those !lround
anchors rvhich are designed to be installed so that the loads on rhc uneh-or .rrc
other than direct withdrawal shall be dcsiened and insrallcd ro resisr an applicd
design load of 3.150 pounds at 45 degrees -from horizonral wirhout displacing rhc
anchor more than four inches horizontally at the point where thc tie attlch;s tu
the anchor. -{nchors designed for connection of multiple tics shall be cupable of
resistins the combined rvorking Ioad and overload consistent with the intcnt
exprcssed herein.
Subp. 3. Anchor design ard installation. Each manuf;rctured ground
anchor shall be approved puisuanr ro part 1350.1500 and installcd ,n "..,,-r.1"n."with the tnchor manufacturer's instructions and shlll include nrc.rns rr[
attlchment of ties meetrng the requirements of part 1350,JS00. subplrt 5.
Grorrnd anchor manufacturer's installation instructi<lns shlll incltrde thc un(rurrtof prcload rcquired. the mcthods of adjustment lfter installation. and thc loud
capacity in various types of soils. These instructions shall includc tcnsioninq
adjustments *hich ma1' he ncedcd to prevent dxmtsc to thc manuiacturcrl ht,rniparticularlr rjamage that can be causcd bv frost hcave.
Subp. {. lnformatiofl on ground anchor. Each ground anchor shall havc
the manuflcturer's identification and listed model idenritication numhcr marlcd
thereon so lhat the numbcr is visible after installation. Instructions shall
accompan\ cach listed ground anchor specift,ing rhc r\pcs of soil for rrhich thc
anchor is surtable under thc requlrcments of subpart 2.
. Subp. 5. Tahle of soil npes. -\OTE: The follouing tlurl gircs
infornratron rclalivc to sorl tlpes urth bkrw counts ilnd krrque laltrcs:
I35O.28OO MANUFACTURED HOMES
}!rrE
l6
I35OJ2OO NUMBER OF TIES REQUTRED.
Number of Ties Requircd Per Side of Single Wide' Mobile Homesr.
This table is based on a minimum working load per anchor of 3,150 poundswith a 50 percenr overload (4.725 pounds total).12345
Ahernate Methoda
Length of3
Mobile Home
(Feet)
No. of
Vertical
Tics
No. of
Diagonal
Ticst
No. of
Diagonal
Ties6
No. of
Baling
Straps
up to.l0 2 3 2 3404623234649232349-5423235+58242458-6424246+70242s70-73242513-842525I Doublc-wide mobilc homes require only thc diagonal ties specified incolumn 3, and these shall be placed along the outer side w-alls.
- ' Except_ when the anchoring -system is designed and approved by aregistered professional engineer or architecr.
. ' Length of mobile home (as used in this table) means length excluding drawbar-{ Alternate method. When this mcthod is used, an approved reinforcementmeans shall te prov,i!9d. If baling is used to accomplistr itiis ,"intorcemeni-iheprovisions of part 1350.2600, subpart 2. irem F shall apply.r Diagonal ries in this method shall deviate ar leaii +0 degr"es from vertical.6 Diagonal ries in this merhod shall be 45 degrees + S aZgr".. from verticaland shall be attached to the nearest main frame membcr.
Statutory Authority: MS s 327.33
l8
I35O.32OO }IANUT'ACTURED HOMES
MANUFACTURED HOMES I35O33OO
t-1503300 PtER SPECT!.tcATroNS.
Subpart l. Picrs less than.l0 inchcs tall.
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\
UEUORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olson, Asst.. City planner
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
4/nFROM: Steve Madden, Fire Inspector
DATE: February 1, 1988
SUBJ: 1660 Arboretum Boulevard
Upon review ofthe following:'-he site plan at t'latural Green, I reccmmend
i
2
If the trailer home is parked nextbuilding, both buildings should be
Chanhassen Ordinance 62-A, Section
Heal or smoke detection should bebuildiogs.
to the existing
spri nkLered.
10.301.
installed in both
If you should have any quest.ions, please see me.
frfl#faau7-#-z--
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
D^vrD L. cR^NNts - 1874-t961
D^vrD L. GR^NNrs, Ja. - 1910-1980
VANCE B. GRrNNrs
V^NGE B. GRANNIS, Jr
P^TRrcK A. FAIRELL
DAVD L. GR^NNrs. III
RocER N. KNUrsoN
L^w OFrrcEs
Gnal.rt'rrs, GnallNrs, FARRELL & KNUTsoN
PRof EssroNAL AssoclAroN
Potrr OFrrcE Box 57
403 NorwEsr B^NK Burr-DrNG
16l NoraH CoNcoRD Exor^NGE
SoLIH ST. PAUL, MNNESoTA ,,07,
TExxPHoNE: (61 2) 45t- 166 t
September 11 , 1987
TExcoptEr:
t6l2\ 455-2a59
DAvrD L. H^RMEYER
M. CEcruA R^Y
Elriorr B. KNErsaH
MICH^ELJ. M^YER
Ms. Jo Ann O.Isen
City of chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
147
55317
RE: Temporary Conditional Use Permits
Dear Jo Ann:
of
use
You asked me to review and comment on Article vI , Section 4
the Cityrs zoning ordinance concerning temporary conditionalpermits. Mj-nnesota Statutes S 462.3595 provides in part:
Duration. A conditional use permit shalI
as J-ong as the condj-tions agreed upon are
nothing in this section shall prevent the
enacting or amending official controls to
of conditional uses.
remain in effect
observed, butmunicipality from
change the status
Conditional uses may be approved by the governing body or
other designated authority by a showing by the applicant
that the standards and criteria stated in the ordinance wilI
be satisfied. The standards and criteria shall include both
general requirements for all conditional uses, and insofar
as practicable, requirements specific to each designated
conditional use.
The Cityrs temporary use permit does not compl,y with either
requirement. Having been granted a "temporary permit" an
applicant could argue that the time limitation was prohj-bited by
state statute and that they have the right to continue
indefinitely. our response would be that if he or she is correct,
then the entire permit was void from its inception. A court $rould
have to sort out who is correct. This concern can be eliminated
REC=:.JEf,
sEP i 4 1387
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
in advance by repealing the provision.
tirkt{vh(A/Tgz
(I
t(
Ms. Jo Ann 01sen
September 11 , 1987
Page Two
I am also concerned with the open-endedness of theprovision. Under it, virtually anything can go in, subject ofcourse to the criteria for issuing any conditionaL use permit.
truly fSr
IS,
P.A
oger
RNK: srn
jAip
(((/ i).
fATE
COUNTY
OF MINNESOTA
OF CARVER
DISTRICT COURT
FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT
SETTLEMEN T AGREEMENT
c j.ty" )
( hereinafter
City of Chanhassen, amunicipal corporation,
plaintiff,
Minnesota
Natural Green, Inc., a Minnesotacorporatj.on, and David K. Luse andJul.iann Luse, husband and wife, ----
Defendants.
Agreement made thi-s 5th day of December , 1983
by and betrleen the City of Chanhassen (herernafter .,the
and Natural Green, Inc., David K. Luse, ancl Juliann Luse
coIlectj.veIy ,'the Owner,, ) -.
1.
inaf ier ,, Ehe
the clty:
RECITALS
The Owner owns the following
subject property', ) within the
described property ( here_
corporate I i.mr Es of
That part of the Southeast euarter of the Southeast euar-ter of secrion to. Township ti6;-;";;"-i=,
"u"r"" counry,Minnesora dcscrj.bed -as roliowsl'e"siiii"s at a pointon the souEh rine of :1:d-!"yrh";;;-a;;;rer of rhe sourh_easr euarrer distant lss.oo r".a-'l;;";-;f the Sourheastcorne r cnLlreol: _..=1c3. i.,esc along siia-iouCfr I i:.:e o dis_tancc of 361.oo feet;. thenc" u""dn."iy iaraLlel withthc Easr I j.ne of sald souEhe.;;- 6;;;:"rof rhe souEheasr.Quarter a disrance of ss3.zO i;";;-ilince oeflectinsto the Risht ar u" ":s]:^"I 62 d;;";;;; oo minutes, oo;:::":; : ::::i:";":l-"9 reet moie-Ji'r"=" ro rhe centeror rhe creek ro it. l-":-!:tt::Iv "roto said cenrer iine
Ehence Easrerry "r;";"::l:':::::."i1:"""Il;";i":";;a:;,its tnEersecCion witwigh said EasL rine:-: r::" drawn 'Northerly and po.oir.r;;;. ; ; i ; "'i"';o' I lio' ;::. i i:, rii::"
" f"
off
: ";:x; il*i;, "
RECEII'ED
vs.
,lwrrttwf*{
2
,
o.,{Suoou.-.^)o-Lr rs _.l,nefDecember, 1977 ,established
a landscape contracting business on the subject property.
3' The city commenced suit agarnst the owner in an actionentitled Ci.ty of chanhassen, a Minnesota munlcipal- corporaEion,vs. Natural Green, fnc., a Minnesota corporation, and David K.Luse and Jul- j-ann Luse, husband and wife, to enjoin the owner fromoperating the buslness on the subject property.
1. The ew6sp contends it has the right to operate thebusiness on the subject property.
S. The partles desire to settle thei.r differences.
NO'/, THEREFO'E, the parties agree as follows:
1. subject to compLiance with the other terms of thj.sagreement' the owner may continue the for-rowing describeci buslnessoperations on the, "ubject property until January 1, 1995 or unttl.the property is soId, whichever fj.rsE occur-s: IancjscaDe conEracc_ing bus:.ness whrch -may noc be altered, expanqed or enl.arged fromthat exj.stlng on SepEember l, 1983.,
2. On or lsrepe July I, 19g4, ihe Cwngr. shail co;.rplywith the requirements of Exhib j-t ..A,,-
3. On or lsf6pe JuLy I, 19g5, alL vehrcles and ecu.t pnent,not inCluCing passen_eer veh:cles orvntd by employees or c.lie.t:S,On the suOJect procerai, useo i;t :he r)usiness sha.l. l be parXeo orstored in the area norch of the Lr.yt5E].ng berm and be fully Screenedat eye leve1 froin vi.ew of pubLic roads .rnd surrounding nes r dences ./-. Buslness identr ficat ion si gns on the subject propq,rtymay nog 1.1xcccd a Loca.l. of l.l square feet ln area.
S. The subject propcrr,y' shaII be posted ,,no publ1c saIes.,.6. products, Iandscapt ng mate
Ehc r.ike may nor be so-rd "" :::"-
':
.
maEerirr ' nurserv stocl( andsold on thc subjcct property to Ehe general5.:l:l i:
{i
7. Exterior storage of aLl materj.a] made by man, pro_
ducts, equlpment, moEor vehicles, fuel or wood is prohi.bited if
such storage is within 3so feet of a public road or residence unr.ess
screened from public view at eye level by a compact hedge, opaque
natural material or fence made of natural material wi.th an earthtone
color.
B. ff the Owner violates the terms of thj.s agreement
and conti.nues to do so for 30 days following recelpt of a written
notice of vj.olation from the City, the City may apply to the District
Court for an injunctj.on to enjoin the continued. operation of the
landscape contracting buslness on the subject property.
9. The city's complaint and the owher.s answer, pet:.tj.on
for writ of mandamus and counterclai.m in the matter entered shall
.ibe dismissed with prejudice and without costs to eithen party.
10. lvi.thout notice either party may move the court for
judgment in accordance with this stipulation.
Dated: December 5, l98 3 CTTY CHANH ASS EI!
By
By
Tom Ha on,
(Don Ash'.Jorth,'r' i',tanage;l-
Dated: December 5, 198 3 CRANN I CRANN IS ,
ARRELL
L PBELL
\
B
ROO tt. KN fsorneys for aintiff
BIdg.4 5 tJorussg gsnL
Souch SE. paul,
-3-
MN 55075
u
(t
@furaI 1660 ARBORETUM BOU LEVARD
CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
6',t21474.1145leen, tnc.
January 20, 1988
Clty of Chanhassen
Attn: Joann Olsen
690 Coulter Street
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
Re: Conditlonal Use for Temporary Offlce Space
Dear Joann 3
Natural Green has purchased a high quality office storage structurepreviously used by Sperry Univac Corporation for sinllar purposes.
The structure is 12r x 45r. please refer to the attached photos.
Natural Green is relocatlng to Chaska. our new 25 acre site islocated near County Road 17 and Highway 212. phase I of our moveis nearly complete which includes the relocatLon of our entire nurseryoperation and rnoving the train depot fron our present location to thenew site. Phase II, conpLeting our entire move including the con-tracting firm, wI11 be cornpleted by March 15, 1999. During the intertmperiod (one year) we need temporary office space. We do not view thlsas an expansion of our exlsting operation but rather the opposite dueto the Phase I uove being complete,
Ile hope the Planning Commlssion and City Council wll1 look favorably
upon the request. Attached please find our application including siteplan. You agreed to allow us a few extra days to provlde you lrlih alLst of property or,rters.
Respectfully subnitted,
NATI]R.AI, GREEN, INC.
David K. Luse
P1'esident
DKL/1a
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I,AND DEVELOPIIENT APPLICATIONCITI OF CEANE,ASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
ChatrhasseD, MN 55312(612) 937-I900
APPLICANT:,tnl,btL /<t&t//u/4 O!iNER:d/D ,^vs E
ADDRESS //-Ca ac6oten/A tlr'o ADDRESS /V3 7 6otf ltae/ D4ve
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Zi.p Code
174-/t*f zip codeTELEPI1ONE (Daytime )
REOUEST:
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TELE PHONE qs*s'a7
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Land Use plan Amendment
Conditional Use permi!
Site plan Review
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch plan
_ Preliminary plan
Final plan
Subdivision
_ Platting
Metes and Bounds
Street/Easement Vacation
Wetlands Permit
PROJECT NA.|4E /.,,Q4Er4
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATIoN R e,'po^hA.. Lo,,I o €^J
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT ZONING K
REQTJESTED ZONING
USES PROPOSED f eb gFsict2 -S flc-Eeu',ra o
SIZE OF PROPERTY s7 0f Az44-
LOCATI ON !.o 443oa4-v)^1 B luo
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST SCE 4
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LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach
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CITY OF
EHAIIHISSEI[
STAFF REPORT
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Preliminary Plat to Replat Five Commercial Lots Into
Six Commercial Lots
Northwest corner of west 78th Street and Kerber
Boulevaril
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
BG, General Business District
21.7 acres
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BGi vacant
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Village Towthomespa- .t- 2/ 1 7 /?i
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R-12i vacant
WATER AND SEWER:Available to property.
PHYSICAL CHARAC. :The site contains
land is currently
s teep
being
slopes and the
farmed.
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Commerc i a I
P.C. DATE: Feb. 17, 1988
C.C. DATE: March 7, 1988
CASE NO: 86-11 SUB
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
T. F. James
6640 Shady Oak Road, Suite 500
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
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T. F. .lames Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 2
Section 5-13-5, the BG District requires that a Iot have a mini-
mum area of 201000 square feet, a minimum of I00 feet of lotfrontage, and a minimum lot depth of I50 feet (Attachment #1).
BRW Consulting Engineer
f ire Inspector
Carver County
BACKGROOND
At tachmen t
Attachment
At tachmen t
It2
#3
tt4
On January 1-2, L987 r the City Council approved the final plat for
West Village Heights for the creation of five commercial lots and
one high density parcel (AEtachment #5). The approved lots con-tained the following areas:
Block 2
Block 1
Block 1
Block I
Block 1
res
acres
ac res
acres
acres
2ac
1.5
2.6
.9
1r.9
Attachment S6 shows the approveC five commercial 1ots.
On August 17, 1987, the applicant received approval for a par-
tial vacation of West 78th StreeE (Attachment *7). The partial
vacation returned property to the applicant from the west 78th
Street right-of-way tha+- r6ras no longer necessary due to the
realignment of West 78th Street.
As part of the subdivision proposal and realignnent of west 78th
Street, the Cicy performed a feasibility study for the Powers
Boulevard,/West 78th Street detachment. The feasibility study
reviewed proposed imp:ovements to west 78th Street and Povrers
Boulevard,/co. Rd. 17 (stormsewer, landscaping and bike trails).
As part of the approved preliminary plat, the applicant provideo
a ponding area to retain post development runoff on site prior to
it entering Burdick's property to the south (Lox 2, Block 1).
Upon review of the feasibility study it. was determined that the
stormwater reEention basin was no longer necessary on the James
property. The runoff instead will be directed tso a ponding area
on the Eckankar property to the west.
ANALYS I S
As a result of
removal of the
the partial vacation of West 78th Street and the
drainage easement betvreen Lots 2 and 4, Block 1,
Lo t.
Lot
Lot
Lot
Lot
t,I,
2,
3,
4,
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
REFERRAL AGENCIES
T. F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 3
Lot 1,Lot I,
Lot- 2,Lot 3,Lot 4,Lot 5,
Block 2
Block 1
Block 1
Block I
Block I
Block I
2.
1.
1I.
L2.
1.
acres
acres
acres
9 acres
5 acres
ac re
5II
The plat is dedicating 40 f eeE. of right-of-way along hfest TBthStreet which is acceptable to the City. The glat is also dedi-cating 50 feet of right-of-way east of the cenrerline on pohrers
Boulevard (County Road 17). The feasibilrty study assumed aright-of-eray of I50 feet on powers Boulevard (CR i7)(75 teet oneither side of the centerline) to acconunodate lighting,landscaping and bike trails. Carver County typiially-requires a150 root right-of-r{ray on road.s with powers Boulevard- (CR 17)classification but is willing to accept 100 feet of right-of-wayif street improvements can be accommodateal. The propoted streetimprovements on Pohrers Boulevald (CR 17) can be built within theexisting 100 foot right-of-way. Currently, the city also has apermanent. 30 foot easernent a1on9 the westerly boundary of theJames property including Lot I, Block 1, and Lot 1, Block 2. Thepreliminary plat shows this easement as 25 feet and this shouldbe changed to 30 feet. The existing 30 foot drainage and utilityeasenent can be used for the landsciping, 1ightin9 and bike
the applicanc has additional land that can be used for a commer-cial site. The applicant is requesting a replat of the approvedfive cornmercial lots to increase the number of lots by one. Theproposed lots contain the following areas:
The proposed replat essentially splits Lot 2, Bloc,k l into twolots and also increases the acreage of Lot 3, Block 1. A11 ofthe lots meet the minimum requirements of the BG District. Theattacheci report from Gary Ehret of BRW, reviews engineeringaspects of the proposed replat. (Attachment f2).
The new storm-water plan for the city provides for the pondingarea on the Eckankar site and removes the necessity of theponding area on the West Village Heights property. The City willinitiate negotiations wirh the owners of the Eckankar prope;ty t.oacguire the necessary drainage easements. The ponding area onthe Eckankar site is preferred over the ponding area oo the Jamesproperty. If the drainage easement on the Eckankar site cannotbe. acquired, through initial negotiations, then the city wouJ"ciinitiate condemnation procedures. UntiI the ponding arla isacquired on the Eckankar site, Lots 2 anti 3, Block 1 cannot bedeveloped. Therefore, staff is condit.ioning approval of the pre-liminary pl,at on the city acquiring the necessaiy drainage ease-ments on the Eckankar site prior to the development of Lots 2 and3, Block 1.
S treets
T. F. James Replat
February 17, I988
Page 4
trails and additional street right-of-way is not required. Staffis recommending that t.he draj.nage and utility easement be amende,ito iaclude trails (i.e. drainage, uti.Iity and trail easement).
Dr i vewa
The existing plat for West Village Height.s was condiEioned uponLots 3 and 4, Block 1, sharing driveways and that Lot 1, Block 1
and Lot 1, Block 2 maintain at least 200 feet of driveway separa-tion from Powers Boulevard (Attachment *8). Shared driveways and
minimum separations from Powers and Kerber Boulevard. should stiII
be maintained. Staff is recommending that a rnaximum of 4 drive-
;ays be permitted along the north side of west 78th Street and
that a minimum 300 foot separation shafl be provided bet:veen
driveways and Powers (CR 17) and Kerber Boulevaral. Drivevray
entrances from the north side of Wests 78th Street should be
Iocated directly opposite of existing driveways on the south side
or placed in a location such that future driveways on the south
siile can be constructed opposite of those on the north, i.e. lot
I ines .
There should be a maximum of two driveways along Kerber a
driveway servicing Lot 5, Block 1, should be opposite of
Drive. It is recommended that there shoulii be no direct
co Powers Boulevard. Any access to Powers Boulevard will
a permit from Carver County.
t1i sce l laneous
nda
Coulter
acces s
requ i re
The Fire Inspector recominended that the fire
apart. Carver County requested plans for the
Street/Pow-ers tsoulevard (CR I7) intersection
approval.
hycrantss be 300
nerc West 78thprior to final
feet
plat
S UMt',IARY
The proposed replat of west Village Heights meets aII of the
reguirements of the BG, General Business District.
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision
Request #85-11 for west vilLage Heights to replat five commercial
lots into six cornmercial lots as shown on the plat stamped
"Received January 28, 1988" with the following conditions:
There shall be a maximum of 4 driveways on the north side of
West 78th Street and the drivways sha11 be directly opposite
of existing clriveways to the south or placed in a location
such that future driveways on the south side can be constructed
opposite of those on the north (i.e. Iot lines).
I
T. F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 5
Lot 5, Block 1shal} share access to West Tgth Street withLot 4, Block l at a minimum of 300 feet from Kerber Boulevardto intersect with the Burdick property to the south.
A maximum of 2 driveways sha1l be allowed along KerberBoulevard and a driveway servicing Lot 5, Blocl 1, shall bedirectly opposite Coulter Drive.
There sha1l be no driveway access to powers Boulevard (CR17).
3
4
6.
Final site plans
criteria for 100
ATTACHMENTS
sha11 conform to city and watershed ditrictyear freeboard elevation.
the Eckankar
Lots 2 and 3,
easement on the
The drainage easement for the ponding area onsite musts be acquired prior to development ofBlock 1 and the 25 foot utility and diainagewest border sha1l be increased Lo 30 feet.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7I
9
Section 5-13-5 of the Zoning Ordinance.Letter from Gary Ehret, BRW, dated February 1I, 1999.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated February I, 19g9.
Memo from Carver County dat.ed February 1, 1988.City Council minutes dated ,lanuary 12, 1987.Approved plat for 5 cornmercial 1ots.City Council minutes dated August 17, 1987.
Approved driveways.Preliminary plat stamped "ReceiveC January 29, 19gg".
2.
5
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1. parking lots2. Signs
5-13-4 The folLowing are conditional uses in a "BG,, district:
L
2
3
4
5
safe or rentrecreationa 1
Lot Requirenents and Setbacks. The follo$ring minimumrequirenents sha11 te or=ervea r;-; ;il; District subjectto additionar. recrui rernent=, exceptionf-a.ro modification setforth in this ord-inance.
1. Miniuruu Lot Area: 20,OOO square feet.
2- Mininun Lot Frontage: 1oo feet (except rots frontinq on:ri'it::;i:E=il"t -have a ;i;i."i^il- root -i'oii.;;'^i"""
3. Mininun Lot Depth: 150 feet.
4. Maximun lot coverage2 7OZ.
5. Setbacks. Off_street parkinq areas shal1 comply withatl- yard requirement=. lr Crrii ;;;i";, excepr that norear yard parking setback =tr"r i-i. -Ilquired for lotsSi:ii'i: :H::::3 rairroao-tii"r.Ii"," and, no srae-yJra
establish i"r". "'.Il!1.33i"*::lg-"o'm"."i.r-u="J-'*'*provided ii-i""ti"". i:if : :i:$in.f::,i:.;iiiriE
".""=;::il ii"ffiff':::3 1' tnv''"e"il.a:ide street side
directJ.y .trttirr.,t-Ilrd shall be 50 feet r". iot!--
si.ae -yaial-Ji"i'i'o3"I ffi ifl:*.j?r,BT::i:4.
-siiJ-street
A. Front yard: 25 feet.
B. Rear yard: 25 feet.
C. Side yard: 10 feet.
. Maximum Height:
A. principaL Structure: three stories/4O feet
EI
Outdoor display of merchandise forT.ygkt autonobile, tarm inrpf"meil]vehicles and boat saLes ani =;;i;"Equipment rentalScreened outdoor storageIlalor auto repair and 6ody shops
6
I
-56-
wo I ots now designate
has been renumbered
PLANNING
TRANSPORTATION
ENGINEEBING
ARCHITECTURE
s 2 and
Bl ock
at'
gENllEIl FISrcE€ IIOISFEIO JAFMS. GAFDNER rfJC THFtEStiEF SO(AA€ - 7@ IHIFO SIFEEI SOJIH MtNN€Att3LlS. MN 55415 t+tof€ 6tZ37O{7@
February 11, 1988
Gary I'la r ren
C ity of Chanhassen
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RE: l{est Vil lage Heights, 2nd Addition
PIat Rev i ew
Dear Mr. Warren:
As per your request, we have reviewed the final plat for l,lest village Heights
znd Addition, as submitted by James R. Hill, Inc., on January 28, 1988. l,le
would like to express the fol loliing corments and concerns:
Plat Modifications
The differences between the previously submitted plat and the prel iminary p'lat
under revi ew a re:
ol 2 of Block t has been split int
of Block 1. Former Lot 3 of Bloc
L
3
1
ot
k1
t is their poljcy
on roadways of
ept fi fty-foot per
regard'ing w'idth requi rements. l,,lh'i I
oot total dedication (75 feet per si
e are told they would be w'i lljng to
d as Lot
Lot 5 of
The drainage and utility easement for ponding purposes, located in portions
of former Lots 2 and 4 of Block 1, has been eliminated.
Ri ght-of-l^lay
The right-of-way ded'ication along llest 78th Street is forty feet. This is con-
sistent with the feasibility study and is sufficient to allow construction of
the l.lest 78th Street improvements.
The r.ight-of-way dedication along County Road 17 is fifty
feet assumed in the Uest 78th Street Detachment Feasibil'i t t and not the 75tudy. l.le have con -
he area in concern provided that roadway geometrlcs allow
reduced width involves future plans for Iighting,
e trails along County Road 17. F'inal plans for the l,rest
CrAvD J AENI€II
OONArD E HUNI
PEIER E JAFVIS
DOl\lAD L CRAIG
CFAIG A AMUNOSEN
O€NnlIS J SUILIFF
feeySei
de)
acc
ferred w'i th the Count
now to require a 150-
this clas5ification,
vf
t
e
forrt
bik
side dedicationsit. A concern fo
I andscapj ng, and
h
MINNEAPOLIS
MNATD W RINGROSE
MAR( G SWENSON
RTCHAPO P\TVOTSFELO
DENVER
LAVIFENCE J GAFDN€F
ArcHABO O P]IGRIM
TIiOMAS F CAAFOLL
CALE N SECKMANN
PHOENIX
fie
-:-j-1,-Jt- |
Mr. Gary warren
February 11, 1988
Page 2
78th Street Detachmen t/ Powe rs B
designed. The new Powers Boule
so-foot exi sti ng rlght-of-way t
west may be desirable. Subject
feet of right-of-way (east of th
tabl e. Landscaping, pathways, e
of-way on the existing sanitary
through this area.
oulevard reconstruction are currently being
vard street section can be built within the
o the east. Expansion of the right-of-way to the
o approval by Carver County, the existing 50t
e
t
s
centerline), as shown on the plat, ic., could be constructed outside of t
ewer easement that the city currently
s a ccep-
he ri ght-
retai ns
Driveway entrances present both a potential driving hazard, and an obstacle to
the nomal flow of turn traffic. For this reason the number and location of
driveway entrances should be carefully considered. Review of this plat submit-tal in conjunction with adjacent platting is important to insure consistency and
coordination of driveway access points to the adjacent roadway system.
Three roadways offer access to the T.F. James plat considered here. [.le offer
the following recormendations for driveway access t0 each roadway:
Powers Boul evard (CSAH 17)
Driveway access to Powers Boulevard is not recofimended. Sight distances, traf-fic speed, etc., merit specjfic concern on Powers Boulevard, and driveway access
is not recorflnended. Final review and approval of driveway entrances to Powers
Boulevard will be by permit from Carver County. The deve'loper should meet all
criteria as establ ished by the County.
Hest 78th Street
Driveway entrances to l,lest 78th Street should meet three basic criteria:
No driveway entrance should be al lowed within 300 feet of an
intersection.
Driveway entrances should achieve maximum spacing between each, should
be shared whenever possible, and should be located to so as to insure
clear site distances. (A maximum of four driveways appears appropriate
on |,lest 78th Street. )
3.Driveway entrances to the north side of West 78th Street should be'located d j rect'ly opposite of those on the south sjde of llest 78th
Street, or placed in a location such that future driveway entrances on
the south side can be constructed directly opposite those built on the
north side. (Staggering of driveway entrances is not desjrable.)
I
?
Driveway En t ran ce
Mr. Gary lla rre n
February 11, 1988
Page 3
Kerber 0ri ve
A maximum of two driveway entrances should be al'lowed along Kerber Drive. The
250 to 300 feet from west 78th
ve to the west is not considered, we
directly opposite of Coulter Drive.
the criteria in Condition #2 for west
Review of a comprehensive plan for this area indicates the developer's intent to
provide shared driveway access from Lots l and 2, Block l and Lots 3 and 4,
Block 1. This is appropriate and in concurrence with the criteria identified
above.
Storm Drai naqe
fi rst driveway shoul
Street. If future e
reconmend p'lacement
The second en t ran ce
78th Street descri be
cur no cl oser than
sion of Coul ter 0ri
driveway en t ran ce
ld attempt to meet
ove.
d oc
xtenofa
shou
dab
The previous plat submittal included an area designated as a drainage easement
for storm water ponding. The current plat submittal does not reflect this
drainage easement. The requirement for storm water retention on this property
(and therefore the need for an easement) can be vraived based upon three primary
cri teria. They a re:
1. As addressed in the feasibility study for the l.test 78th Street
Detachment, downstream storm piping is not yet in place. The oppor-
tunity to determine the appropriate pipe sjzes is within the control
and at the discretion of the CitY.
2. The developer has agreed to the incremental costs associated with the
increased pipe sizes which are necessary because of the el imination of
on-site storm water retention. Reimbursement of the increased costs
should be a part of the developer's agreement.
3. Storm water ponding is proposed just west of the applicant property.
The opportunity to real ize the inherent benefits of on-site ponding can
be achieved with this proposed pond eliminating the spec'if ic need for
ponding on the applicant's site. However, the incremental value ass0-
clated vrith the increased pondjng requirements should also be the
respons'ibi I i ty of the developer.
l.le have completed a prel iminary review of the hydraul ics of this area. A low
point wiII be constructed in the lrest 78th Street Detachment approximately 500
?eet east of powers Boulevard. Flood routing for a 100-year storm must occur to
the south through the James Property and the Burdick property or it will occur
in the street and adjacent parking areas. He estimate the 100-year high water
level at the ll,lest 78th street low point to be about 953 to 953.5. Al 1 site plan
subm'ittals associated with this development should insure compliance with both
city and l,latershed criteria relative to this 100-year elevation. First floor
Uuilding elevations should account for a minimum two-foot freeboard above the
100-year el evati on.
llr. Gary lla rren
February 11, 1988
Page 4
It must also be pointed out that the storm sewer system serving this area wilI
flow to the designated ponding area on the Eckinkar property. The City does not
currently retain the right to ponding on this property. It is critical that
negotiations begin as soon as possible with the property owners to retain
ponding ri ghts/easements as described.
Recormendati ons
1. lle recormend that the future driveway locations conform as closely as
possible to the guidelines as described in this Ietter.
2. l,le recormend that final site plans conform to City and Watershed criteria
for 100-year freeboard el evati ons.
If we can be of further assistance, please let me know.
Si nce rel y,
BENNETT-RINGROSE-}lOLSFELD-JARVIS-GARt)NER, INC.
6o,VY A ax.l.aY€I(
Gary A. Ehret, P.E.
GAE/sK
Attachment
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
FROM: Steve trladden, Fire tnsOecrctffi
February 1, 1988
General Business, West 78th Street and powers, KerberBoulevarils
},IEMORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olson, Asst. City planner
DATE :
SUBJ:
I recomrrend. that the fire hydrants be placed 300you have any questions, Dlease see me.
feet apart. If
fr3
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
I
NES
\
RC
PUBLIC \li/ORKS OEPARTMENT
(612) 448-343s
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST 4TH STREET
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318
COUNTY OT CAPVrc
February 1 , 1988
Ms. JoAnn Ol senCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
P. O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 5531 7
RE: Planning Case 86-'l 1 Subdivrsion (West Vi l lage Heights)
Dear Ms. Ol sen:
We have revrewed the submrtted pre.i iminary plat amendment to the
above pI ann lng case.
Now that the revocation of CSAH 16 rs complete, the County has nointerest in the 78th St. Corridor. The C.S.A.H. 16 deslgnatronof the plat should be removed.
Thank-) ou f or -'he coport'uri I -,-:,, tc suomt t our comments .
Sincerely,
( / cJz
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Wi l liam J
Ass i stant
t{ecl(man P.E.
County Eng l neer
fai:(-;l J L,-
'I
Al I irmoti\E Action / Equol Owortunity Emplovet
FEB i O 19BB
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
wJW/cj r
The proposed change should not effect the proposed 78th Streetentrance onto CSAH 17 (Powers Blvd.).
Before the final plat ts approved, the County would like to seeplans for the new 78th St/CSAH 17 intersectton along withproposed changes to CSAH 17 if necessary,
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L74
City Courcil l,teeting - January L2; LggT
until the time that the City firds a r eplac.ement for Jim Castleberry. A1Ivoted in favor and motion carried.th. SSi ]*p""tqi councilman Geving moved, Counci lman Horn secorded toappornt Mayor Hamilton. as Weed Inspector anl the City Eng ineer, Gary warren asAssistance vreed rnspector. arl volea in favor ..n rLrti.'. --.iiJ]
i. Fire Chief: Mayor. Hanilton moved, Counci lman Horn secorded to approve Artt<erbEas_EErri re -erief . arr "otJ-in 1""or and motion carried.
j. Health Officer:, S_V-or ,amil ton moved, Councilman Gevirg seconed toapoiiE-5i.-ETii-r.rccoitum as tt. city;"'Health officer. All voted in favoranl motion carried.
k' city Auditors: [layor Hamirton moved, courcirman Horn secprded toautnirl-ze-EEE][968 a,rait cont.""t to-t}*'ri* of voto, Tautges, nedpat]r ancrCorqrany. AII voted in favor ard nrotion carried.
gPTfryI.oolpg .Mayor ramilton moved, Councilman Hom seconded to aFprove thetorror"rlng consent Agenda items prrsuant to ttre city l€nager's reccnmendations:
X L ,., Finat plat Approval, West Viltage Heights, Janes CcmIEny.
(b) Anendment ts _t],e :roi{!t povrers Agreement Establishing ttre south$restArea Transit @nmission.
(c) Resolut=log #q7-=l: - Alproval of tand Use plan Amendment Request tornclude west 65ti street and crestview Drive in the Metr6politanUrban Service Area.
(d) Approvar of certificate of correction, Fox Holros, 4th Addition.
(e) Accept Resignation from Park arxl Recreation conmissioner, wallace McIGy.
(f) set special Meeting Date for Joint city Counci l/park and RecreationCormission meeting.
(i) Resorution #87-2: Request to Remove No park zone along Kiowa Trail,Ei$E-Ga-nnassen.
AII voted in favor and nption carried.
MayoE tramirton stated that because there were a number of tEopre present atthe m:9tirg regarding consent Agerda items, the counc worild tisiuss items(g) arri (h) at this point in ttr- meeting instead of at the end of the meeting.
!g).MRPA Request to Hold the Menrs District softball Tournament at take Ann- Park.
*,r*-ra, ** *ra, ttrey are rear brief on (g), thatrs the one about tlre MenisDistrict softbau Tournament anl that's ""rfi'inr.y exciting .="" io see thatthey are interested in using our fierd. r wourd sJggest -that rather than
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FRONT YARD SEItsACK \ARIAIiCE REQUEST, 750 CARI/ER BEACH ROAD, GARY BASS
@urci lwoman v'Iatson: we granted the variance. rhere literarry was no praceerse on this rot for this gentlemen to put a garage. He was ioirg to Lve itway up and it was going to be a problem because he is going io try ana p:t abasement underneath it ard it was just goirg to seem very targe. 1t woutahave been well above the house but he is not doing that and altualry it isonly like the roof of tte garage that is qoirg to be showing. oue to thesignificant srotrE there, tlere was no place else for him to put a garage andit was especial-ly desirable because he is parking, technicau:y orooid d "tr""tright-of-way now right out in front of his house. re is jusi sort of g:rringoff in a gravel area. ?tris wil,r get his vehicle off, doin a driveway- ard oifthe street aesthetically as i€II as frqn a safety starxlpoint.
City Courcil Meeting - Novernber 17, 1986
P.- JAI1E=S.gIE$$/,_ NORT'EASr CORNER oE wESr 78rH STREET (CR rO ANp pOwERS
PLVp=_ 1gE-Ii)1-
REQUEST 10 REZONE 43 ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM R-IA , AGRICT'LTURAL
RES IDEI.ICE DISTRICT II!1'O 18.9 ACRES TO C-3, SERVI CE AND 24.1 ACRES
t-
Barbara Dacy: I can give a presentation covering both items. Ihe pa.rcel isabout 50 acres in size ard it is right next door to us across Kerbef Brvd.between Povrers Blvd- and on the north side of west Tgth street just north ofTH 5 ard the powers Bl-vd. intersection. The first request is f5r a rezoningaction. To be consistent with what is shown on the crjrrent adopted@mprehensive plan, the commerciar alorg the frontage of the priperty arri highdensity multiple family.on the northern portion .o -th"
=ur.r"1l ti-rut you t"".recorded in the descriptions are consistent with the existirq- guide llan forthe city of Granhassen. Ttre pranning Commission recommended- alprovai of therezoning action presentsl in the staff Report. The subdivisioi'."q,r".i -i. .rittre more involved. the major issue in the preriminary prat reqiest is therealignment of west 78th street. you heard a iot about inat wtren -t"lr. Burdickplatted his property across the street. Just to back up for a c$uple ofminutes, I want to review briefly some of the history about why thirearignment and why the rearignment of ,vest Tgth street is imlirtant to thecity of chanhassen. some of you r^rere on varj.ous commissions ind soards duringthe time when develognent for what was known then as the Highpath property waibeirg considered. This is a transparen<12 of an old plan baci trom -lgi9-L9gg.
Ttp Counci I at that time was even considering separating the streetintersection from the intersection of TI{ 5 ard powers Blvd. and cR 17. Thispond which is in the southeast corner of the Highpath farm and just r,rest oftbe first proposed entrance on that proposed preliminary plan s6 there kirrl ofhas always been a history as far as trying to maximize the separation from theintersection. In fact, on the south side to the Business pari you have asimilar situation where you separated park Drive a good way froi the majorintersection. Also, ttre originar dolrntown redevelo;xnent pian, uhen thai wasadopted in 1980 addressed the realignment issue. [ain, t?re commercial on thesoutlr side of L!,man ard so on, pointing Eo a rearignment of west Tgtlt street
INTO R-4 , HIGH DENSITY RESIDE}JIIAL.
B. SUBDIVISION OE 5q.4 ACRES OF PROPERTY I}TTO F IVE COMMERCIAL T,crTS AND
ONE HIGH DENSITY PARCEL.
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r on the- norti. As you can see, maximizirg the distance ard stackirg distancefrom Ttr 5- More recentry tf,e HRA comm is-s ion, the year zogs t.un"6.tutionStudy which came to be known as the Broadenj Stud1, area took a bioJ-pL.trr"of the transporration sl.stem in Chanhassen ana info Ed;; ;;lr;"-;; '
documented the traffic vorumes ard numbers for the need for u ""p"r.tionbetrreen west 78th street and t},at intersecti.on. Based on proleciions from ttreyi"I^3o?lf!1!_s-r$y shor.{ed rhat thar intersection wourd iuii if-i."rign*.ntr's not acromprished- so given those various factors, when the apSrlicanf carneto staff initiarly there $ras a rot of discussion of where stroura'tnerearignment farl on po$rers Blvd. and so on ard with the nerf oitr,. u.to.rvolunes ard numbers crunched by Benshoof an:l Associates wiUt ttreltansportation study, hre erere able to determine that the amouni-of separation
+oP b" approximately 6gg f*.,t. Tte next issue was tle design curvl. Hoe,should west 78th street flow into powers B1vd.? rhe corrcern di'g tt"-i*pu"tto the E:rdick property to ttE sourh. The planning comm isiiqr-ta6rJ- d.,i=IErticurar prat in october into l'tovember to make sure tl.at Mr. B:rdick'sconcetns were addressed.
.W"- H- a. joint meetirg witi ttnDot, Cawer County ardthe property owners affected and it was determi-ned that the ss rph-a."iqnT*u l" the most appropriate design curve through this area i.a it"ra ,i."tState Standards, etc.. As some of you knovr, West Tgth Street is a Cou.tystate Aid ttighway. The queston arises as to how can ttp realignment beachieved ard as- the report goes through what can be done is th-at the city canrequest a redesignation from county state Aid to Munici.IEr state eii aJ tnatinvolves a speed Iimit study, Iooking at reducing it frim ag ,pf, io*, to ti,erecommended 35 mph desigrn cuwe- again, the city staff is rec6rnmerriing thisrealignment to improve the overarr function of tire entire roua,uay ;y;8 . Atthat joint meeting of the jurisdictions affected ard the p.op".ty oin".iaffected, the issue was what -is the best vray to accompr isrr tire r'earig;ent andthe ;rrrpose that that serves- but also frontirg for access to existinipl?Fl!i.": Whar_ was agreed upon is to make lhe existing alignmeni 6t w."t78th. Street a right-in ard right-out arrl that vrould the;,,f into tterearignment west 78th street. what would occur is a vacation of some of thatard that would be up to the decis_i-on of the property owners of all or part ofthe right-of-vray so that you wourd have a gr:eer; area arourxl that and a G0foot. right-of-way berd ing into the realignmlnt roadway. That still arlows forstacking distance from the north and a proper right turn movement into thearel- lf you- wanted to go do$rntown you would come to a 90 degree stop. Itwould also allow for the real igned traffic to flor., protErly ai weII. fhePlanning commission recorunended approval of this aesign pei *e co.t r. ti o.rsthat you have in the staff Report. Arso, they recommended a specific conditionas far as the number of access points. rt is risted as commisiion corditionnumber 6 arri as separation of dr iveways from the intersection. arce tirerearignment is achieved, separation of tte driveway can be located 2gg f€FJt_from Povrers Blvd-. Einally, in regards to the applicant, there is a concernwhether or not the realigrment should be accompr i itred by a right-of-""y o. "noutlot. staffts recommendation number : is UIat upon elecution andnegotiation of a deverognent contract that the reaLignment should be plattedas.a right-of-$ray. Again, the planning Commission recommended upp.o.r-.l ofboth i tems as presented in your staff -Reports ard as far as ttre ltraivision isconcerned, the eight conditions ]isted in your Report.
City Counci 1 t4eeting - Ncvsnber 17,19g6
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City Courcil lreeting - Novsd)er L7, L986
Councilwoman Swenson: I have a question not doirg to that but on the
recommerrilations Barbara. I don't urderstard r.rhy was the recomrnerdation from
the Park ard Rec DetErtment for the bikeway classification not includeal by the
Planning Ccxmission?
Barbara Dacy: Irm sorry, I should have addressed that. As you can see the
Park ard Rec $ranted the Council, really they are makirE no reconmerdation to
the Courcil to look at tlre selErated bikeway improvement aLong ttEt area. A
Class I Bikeway Classification, if you have tte roadway separated by sidewalks
ard then selErated bikeway. ltp feasibility of whether or not that can occurwill be str.rilied durirg the feasibiliQr study process to see if we have ernugh
right-of-way in that alignment to account for that. Also troubled with tlre
fact that we are goirg through the dohrntoern improvement feasibility shJdy
phase arri Ute attached bikeway is proposed on tie north side of West 78th
Street ard the HRA will be discussirg that in more detail but my comment is
that it should be coordinated with t}le downtown effort so that you have a
smooth flow of [Edestrian traffic. TLre recommerdation frqn ttE Park ard Rec
@rmission is to the Council.
Mayor Hamilton: Was there any consideration given to hor{ we are going to
align or how the biryclers will get to take Ann? There are a lot of kids that
use that tEth during the summer and would we rdant them to go through the newly
aligned 78tl: or are we goirg to rdant them Eo go r:[) to the rEw part? If tlEy
go up to the new intersection, v're rrant to look at having something immediately
across the street so they vrould cross ard get on a path there rather then
staying on t}le street.
Barbara Dacy: Yes, that is a good point. It was not discussed at the Planning
Commission neeting. Whether or not it was discussed at the Park ard Rec
meeting I do not knovr. ltle Planning Commission did suggest some alternatives
that we cculd look into further. l{aybe a bike path through t}E muttiple
family area to t}le north. ltEt might be accomplished. they were kind of
concerned beirg that West 78th Street was a major road ard so on, so those
issues had to be decided arrl should be during the feasibility study as far as
costs, etc..
Mayor Hamilton: Flcw would that. intersection be tnrulled as far as stop signs
ard traffic flow? Conirg frcm the north especially.
Barbara Dacy: Etom Powers? there would be no signage or conLrol on povrers.
There $rill be a stop sign here ard down here at into West TSth Street.ltere will probably be an islard in here, a right-in /right-out only arrl the
najor stop light at IH 5 arrl Po$rers.
Mayor Hamillon: uill there be a left turn lane at powers Blvd. and 78th soif there is no stop there traffic can continue to flow? The new intersectionof Eberers .
2q
Barbara Dacy: lbt thaE Irm aware of. Bill?
Bill ErEelhardt: I rrould think there vrould have to be.
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r l,tayor tlamilton: there would have to be a left turn lare because you saidttEre wasnrt going to be a stop sign.
Counci lwoman Watson: I guess I'm having trouble urrierstanding why anyone
would come off of IH 5 ard go to that upper intersection ard f can,t -
urderstand why children coming out of Gran going to the pa.rk are going to gothat way either. TtEy are goirg to keep goirg straight as they go. They arestill going to be in the middle of that intersection. people take the pathof least resistance. They are goirg to cone off of TH 5 ard ttEy are goirg togo in on West 78th Street into Chan precisely as they are now so I gueis I'm
confused as to what re are solving.
Barbara Dacy: So you are questioning why are we realigning it if traffic is
cqnirry up in this waf
Courci lman Horn: Or wtry are re leaving that in?
City Council l4eeting - Novsnber 17, 1986
Barbara Dacy: Tte primary reason for Leavirq the existirg alignment again isto provide an access to the Burdick property. If this does not exist then thetwo Iots down here would have to have access down at this point here. To
ansv/er Carol's concern about why are we realigning this- One of the reasonsis the stackirg d istanc.,e tha! will occur from ttle stop light here ard thatwill block this intersection here for the left turn movement out from existing
West 78th Street-
Counc i l woman Watson: I can urderstand why we want to do it. I have always
known that we wanted to ard why we wanted to do it. I guess with the 78th
Street open down there, I just donrt see that it is going to solve much. I
think people are still going to use it as they have always used it ard nobodyis going to bother to.use Ulat nice little road up there.
Mayor tlamilton: Except that when you take a right turn in there on theexisting 78th, they are going to fEVe to come Eo a stop at the intersection-If you continue up to bhe new intersection you just go through it. you won't
have to make a stop.
Barbara Dacy: ltaffic coming out of the dovrntown too will use this to serve
these conmercial lots as well.
Counci lman Horn: They won't iEVe to stop j.f they come through there, from
dovmtown.
Barbara Dacy: You are saying they will come in like this?
Councilman Horn: sure.
Mayor Hamilton: then they can only take a right out. If they are going to
take a right )t{ayr they might as well keep going.
Bill Engelhardt: I was going to comment that that is just fine if they do
take lhat right turn into downtown. Another reason for the realignment is ttEpotential road to the west for future frontage road then those two would match?
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City Courrci I l4eeting - Novsnber 17, 1986
up ard then you would have your major intersection q) there but that is just
fine if they take that right-off right down into your redevelo;xnent area right
downtown. That works very nicely.
Mayor Hamilton: that fits with the Burdick prolErty and for...
Councilwoman Watson: It certainly is interestirg. I guess I rEver expectedit to look this way. I was nothing short of fascinated by t].e ultimate des ignof the whole thing.
l4ayor Hamilton: I kind of like it. I think it works out really reII.
Charlie James: I pointed out to the Planning Commission ard I would.like topoint out here too that r^re stop thinking of this sometimes as a p:bi ic street
because originally what we had done is brought this down ard we were goirg toprovide an easement across through here and making a portion of the blacktop
here sufficient to access Mr. &lrdick's property ard so then vacate back the
rest of the right-of-way. Right now it is a 150 foot right-of-way and the taris only 4g foox wide out there so we are proposirg that everything woulil be
vacated back. Mr. Burdick was very crcncerned about tEople making this
movement on Ttl 5r com ing r4> here like this ard then down ard arourd to get
into these properties and he was asking for a righh turn into his prolErty. I
wouldnrt care if this right hard movement just went into his pro[Ety. I could
care less but then we have to get tlem out of his proeprty again so it is sort
of a right-out or goirg this way ard I think one way to look at this thirg is
we are going to have a 80 foot right-of-way up here arld you were saying why
would people turn here or whatever. You are going to have a much improved
road, yourre going to have medians in the highway here and medians ln thisstreet here with turn lanes ard this could have the appearance here of say an
area like Southdale or someplace where you have perimeter roads and there is
accessory buildings. There is like main road ard then at scrne point this
could become vacated out of here is what I'm saying so this would be like
makirg a right turn into a parking lot. Maybe Mr. Burdick would Lnve a Lurd'sstore sitting here or somethi ng and trEopl-e would come here and rather then
appear like they were comirg into a street, they would be comirg into agrocery store or something and t-here could be an integrated and shared pa.rking
Lot here so I think, if I can speak for Mr. Burdick, I Lhink what he is tryirgto accomplish here is just some insurance that there is some access and in thefuture as the properties develop we can sit down ard maybe in the future wewilL decide r.re don't need this. Maybe Mr. gurdick and I wlII sit down and say
wouldnrt it be better if both of just vacatd this out ard we each got 75 feei
back arrl maybe this becomes a right-in to a joint parking Iot that we develop
between whatever building I put here ard whatever buildirg kre might put there
so Irm sure that this is going to be subject to change in here but right nowit seems to be a solution that allows us to proceed. It seems to be asolution that gives Mr. Burdick the access. It gives the @unty and the State
ard everybody (,rhat they want ard still gives us the maximum fl-exibility to
Iook at this again in the future and say should te close this, should we
vacate it, should this be a right-in for Mr. Burdick?
Mayor Hamilton: l4r. Burdick did you have any comments you would like to makein addition to what was referenced?
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I B.C. Burdick: I like this plan for me. perhaps itrs not as good if you left
West 78th Street the way it is for me but I could live with it and go along,
This came about frorn the best meetirg I have ever been at. BiIl Engelhardt
was tlEre, Jo Ann Olsen, Roger Grstafson, the Carver County Grief Eng ineer and
Evan Green of MnDot. Everyone respected each others ideas ard this is what
they came up with, MnDot and Carver County as well as mysetf and the Jamesproperty. This is fine with me.
Councilman Horn: Is there going to be a median out there? What is to prevent
scrnebody frcn rnaking a left turn out there except a sign?
BiIl ftrgelhardt: there will have to be concrete medians. Itris is a very
simplistic sketch shorrirg the direction of flow but when it is all done itwiII have to be a pretty sophisticated intersection.
@uncilwoman Swenson: When we switch to a MSAH, do we have to make an
exchange for that?
Barbara Dacy: we are playing dominoes too. We are evaluating the upcoming
projects ard how mudr will be entailed for each proj ect in the MSA system.
Iake Drive East was removed because of the tax base of the Business Park and
the next project was Bluff Creek Drive so the @uncil arrtually approves the
Municipal State Aid schedule and orders improvernents and so on.
Councilwoman Sr^renson: Ttte reason I ask is because BilI wrote to Eden Prairie
anl to MnDbt regarding the fact that the road that goes around Riley, Llrman
Extension, Eden Prairie is workirg with MnDot to get that road switched over
to MsA and I had worked with BiIl in going to the County because we are
gettirg a lot of County traffic through there with ttle advent of TH z\z
coming in so I know that he clntacted MnDot or \^rrote a Ietter to them
regardirg that. This is something that is going to have to be addressed
pretty soon because we have a major problem there with all the traffic ttnt is
comirg through or arourd to the park across the way. With the potential
increase of housing on the Eide property and along in there, we have a major
problem ard I want to make sure that we're not goirg to scari.fice other areas
that have already been spoken for. I think this is somethinE that is goi.ng to
have to be Looked into.
Mayor Hamilton: Like Bill says it is a very preliminary sketch. I agree with
you completeLy about how th3t whole intersection works out with pedestrians
especially getting to the park but we have two issues at harrl. That is the
subdivision rezoning of 43 acres from R-lA ard he is also requestirg the
subdivision of 50.4 acres into five commercial lots- Are there any questions
about those issues?
Courrc i Iman Ceving: I'm really not too crazy about maintaining west 78Ehstreet. I think that $ras a major concession of Mr. Burdick in that
develognent. Personally I would liked to tEve seen it closed off ard cul-de-
saced because I think that makes a lot more sense then what is beirg proposed.
I do believe however that we need to E:rsue the idea of maintaining that Park
ard Rec recorunendation to Errsue the roadrray to ttre north alignirg tte
hiking/biking path, whatever it comes out to be, on the north aI igrunent anl
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City Council t,teeting - Novsnber L7, 1986
,5S)
City Council Meeting - Novernbe( 17, 1986
then looking west across the highway, CR 17, in the manner in which it willalign itself to take Ann park. I still don't see how that is going to be doneor where it is going to ccxne out but we $rant it on tte north side of the newproposed alignment ard if need be, I would even go so far as to say that we
should look ahead to a walkover tlpe facility across CR 17 if that should
happen or if the need exists for that. that might be a good spot. We see a
number of those as we go east through Edina, I think there are half a dozenard something like that might just fit that particular alignment so I wouldIike to see us prrsue that ard follow through on it. Secordly, on the @unty
Road designation moved into a Municipal State Aid Road System, do we receivJfurds to build that road as a result of makirrl that maneuver?
l'lalror tlani lton: Yes.
CourEilman Geving: tlrw much of the road roould be paid for by tne City?
Don Ashworth: It woutd be anticipated that tlE cost would be paid ouE ofthe State Aid Furds.
Courcilman Ceving: Okay. then would we have to redesignate that portion ofthe County State Aid lergth sdnewhere else in the ocmmuni ty? Would we losethat piece of highway? It shouLd be close to half a mile or so.
Bill Engelhardt: I can answer that. Right now or within tte near future the
real igrunent r.rould carry both designations, State Aid and County State Aid arxlthe reason for that is the Crunty does not {,,rant to lose ore single tenth of amile on their s)rstem and when they get another segment of road ;ithin
Chanhassen that could be classified as State Aid, then they vrould switch ardtransfer that classification from west 78th street to that section to maintaintheir mileage.
Courcilman Geving: So the mileage would be maintained and the road $rould bepaid for out of State Aid Furds not out of any City furds is that correct?
Don ,Ashworth: ltrat is correct.
Counci lman Ceving: I have no other comments and now I'm io favor of theproject.
Counci lwoman Watson: i{hen we were talking about the bike path and with thisintersection arxl everything developirg into this, I think there shou ld bea real big consideration to figure out hov, we are going to get the kids from
dor^rntown because the kids are used to goirg there. They have Center Street.this map just tickles me because the Village of Chanhassen and Center Street,it nust be as old as the hills. If you come out of Center Street here better
known as Coulter Drive, and you were to come behind tot 3, which I assume thatsingle family home that is on that ard I realize that that Lot 4, whereverthat building is going to be, could swing down a ways there and come closer to78th Street arrl then begin up ttre north side. If you came through that r.ray you
could avoid having them crcme down to the main street. If there is some waythat Ehey can ccine in ard run alorg behird there ard then ccme up here ard
make because ttren they c.ould come up coulter Drive for one thing which r think
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Mayor Hamilton: I think that rEeds to be a part of the next step $rhen the
Planning Commission needs to review the Park ard Rec Commission Minutes as we
do and I think your point is well taken. I think aII of us are clncerned
about hovr that will hapEEn.
Courcilwoman Watson: I think that alignment would be a good one since it does
almost approximate @ulter Drive behird that area. I dontt tave any problem
erith tlte street the way it is done here. I think it is a little odd. It'sjust unusual.
Courci lman Ceving moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to approve the Rezcning
Request *85-2 to tezone 50.4 acras into 24.7 acr6 of C-3, Service @mmerci.al
and 25.7 acres of R-4, HiSh Density as depicted in tie legal description
requested in Attachment #6 of the Staff Report on the northwest corner of West
78th Street and Kerber Blvd.. AIso, to approve Subdivision Request #85-11 for
the subdivision of 50.4 acres of property into five commercial Lots ard one
high density pa.rcel with ttre following conditions:
The City proceed with the recl-assi fication of CSAH 16 to MSAH 15.
D<isting west 78th Street will become a right-in/right-out after
cfipletion of the reatignrnent of west 78th Street.
4
Upon execution of the develognent contract, the realignment of West
78th Street shall be platted as a right-of-way.
Any acEess from CR 17 receive a permit frcm the County.
A building perm it for Lot 2, Block 1 shall not be issued until the
realigrment of l{est 78th Street is cornpleted.
Lot 3, Block I shal-I share an access with t,ot 4, Block l, from Kerber
Boul-evard and West 78th Street ard tpt l-, Block 2 shall tnve only one
access frcrn the existing West 78th Street ard the new aligrrnent.
AII drivorrays must be at Ieast 290 f@t frqn an intersection.
llo buildirg permit r.riu be issued until municipal services are
avai lable to the protrErty.
All voted in favor except Councilwoman Svrensoo who abstained and motion
carried.
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City Council Meeting - Novstrber L7, L986
is lrhat a lot of them do when they come out of town. They come down throughtle City fiall parking lot here and if they could come along there, it could be
very distinctly separate.
Courrci lwoman Swenson absta ined because she wanted to know what is going to
happen tte MSA for the street.
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City Council I'beting - August L7, :-:ggT
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-" #e,B.C. Burdick
Charlie James
Jo Ann Orsen: the site is west Tgth street. Ttre approximate rocation is onthe corner of west 78th street arrl powers Brvd.. Ttre appr icant is requestirga partial vacation of west Tgth street so trrai-r,e can stirt -"=liu.tion ontle site plan that was atr*)roved just recently by the crty corrn"ii. --puiti.:.
vacati.on would allov, for. parking and fanasciiinq to be provided. It wiIIstill maintain the existirg rigll-of-way f;'* existirg street there so thatwourd sti1l be urder rhe_ contr;l 0t trri city. we tabled action on aulust :rduntil -the carver county Board could revoke ihe contror of west Tgth street ardlfv aia do that this past hresday so now the city can u.t o" ti,u1l."uiion.A1so, MnDot who contrors the righi-of-way in this Lorner has ""ni tt=--appl icant a Letter stating !iat- trey ao iot rrave any objection to returning
-the
control 0f that right-of-way o"t to tne appr icant. Al though it is a tongprocess, it could take up to. a year, but they hive initiated ti,it una
-tir"y
f,nve altsg ret the appricant know that he can'construct hi.s parkirg area intothat right-of-way prior to the officiarly turning it back o-ver. 6tutr i=recgTmgrd irg approval of the partial vacJtion wiih the "o.n i tions -trrut
ttreutilities be preserved by an easement and that the remaining -iight_.?_riy
orwest 78th street, where the street exists, shall not be vacitd"until the.rearignment of west 78th street to the noith is accomplish"a. --w.'.i" -.
reconmerdirg approval of tfle partial vacation. -
B.C. Burdick: I most certainly have comments on this gentLemen because itdirectry affects me- vacating that portion of the entirity or r^i"=t-iati,street is.perhaps okay. r keep an ofun mind on that but tiris is what-i oujectto.. I obj ect to Lhe partial vacating. This piece meal approach. That neverworks as wer-r- whether it's _on this o1 something erse. That,s number one.Numbe! tr^ro, that directly. affects me, cuttirg oif ttut pie.,e up d; ; ."angle reduc.es the visibility of my property irom ttre noith "o
'tf,..., - rLr i"rr"there is damages established. r ur=".qu.=lion frocedure. r tarked b;i;frynicery with Jo Ann this morning and she sta ted -that it had been ;;ur]"r.,i rrtr questioned whether it was posted as is required. Jo Ann oia not u"ii""" ithad been posted and it is a requirement that' vacating must be p"=aJ..a ui=has not been done so the procedure was not followed. AIso, t,ve qoJ qu.=tion"about the publication too- was there a petition? That's another'p.o.Eu."that was not followed. There was not a petition ard it,s also my '-----
urxlerstanding ttnt a peti.tion needs a majority of the prolErty o-wners. werr,there are tvro persons- one person can n6t be'a majoriiy i:ecairse itu not amajority. r believe that,s it. r'rl keep an oIEn *ina "t ttris aate-in-timeif this was arl pranned ard at the time tiley st'art on tt,= rE!,, street ard doingit properly.
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spec13l meeting to discuss it further and get recommendations as quickry aspossible.
PARTIAL VACATION OF WEST 78TH STREET.
Riblic present:
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City Cruncil Meeting - August L7, L987
I,layor !{amilton: We're not goirg to start the nee, street until this one is
vacated so if we want to hold off I guess t.,e can do that.
Charlie James: I'm Charlie James from the T.F. James Company ard I had
brought along some exhibj.ts that I have colored up that may make this wholethirg a little more understandable. First, briefly I woul-d like to give alittle backgrourd into what has happened out tiere as far as the surveying and
where the original road right-of-vray was out there. When rre p:rchased the
ProtErty we had a boundary survey done ard the area that is shown in yellow
here ard in pink is the right-of-way, tle edge of this pink line would be tlre
center line of the right-of-way as it was originally recorded and described.
You can see that that does not relate to ttE section lirp where it was
interded and the yellow line shows an eocroachment onto my property of where
the road right-of-way was described ard subseguently when we bought tieproperty there was g:it claim deeds that were exchanged and reported to the@unty. The right-of-way has now been restord or currently ayists as a line
descr ibed approximately 75 feet north of the section line. Sometime prior tothis, because of the description for where tle road strould be turning in a
northwesterly direction and when it was intended to be on the section line,
because of that, originally this was 150 foot right-of-way that vras interdedto be 75 feet on either side of the section line down here and because the
road was bui.lt, or the description was given in a nortl:westerly trerd ard
based on an inaccurate survey, at some point then the EEths, they went along
on Mr. Burdick's side of the road ard they reduced tte right-of-way on hisside from 75 feet Eo 40 but they left the right-of-way on our side as being 75feet so he's already been qr:it claimed back 35 feet of lard on his side of thesection 1ine. What we are asking for ncw here, then when the road $/as built,I forgot one other point here, when the road was bui1t, the mat, the actual
lvest. 78th Street as traveled here, the mat was pJ-aced in somewhat of a
southwesterly trerd so you have the road easemenE as beirg described on anorthwest basis askew from the section line and then the road was buil-t askew
on a southwesterl-y basis ard that resulted, as we leave the section cornerhere, the blacktop mat is pretty much in the center over the section line. As
we approach the section line which forms the center line of powers Blvd. themat is placed so it approximately, it,s 44 feet wide at that point and
approximately 16 feet of it is north of the section line ard the balance of itis south of the section line. On this exhj.bit here, the yellow indicates theright-of-way that would exist after this partial vacatio; that r,re arerequesting. I'm sorry, the ye1lor", shows the mat that will exist after wevacate, if our vacation is requested here. The pink shows the remainingright-of-way so you can see that even after our vacation request trere tiere
_w-if:. be right-of-way left on both sides of the blacktop even though theblacktop is somewhat askew of the section line. then blowing thii up in alittle better detair here. This orarge line here represents -the rignt-of-wayas it's described and finalized in the quit claim documents that were
exchanged between the C-ounty ard myself so this is the right-of_way, where i.tshould be, as it i.s today, the orange line. The green tine down fiere, theborder between the green ard the ye1Iow, this Iine here, represents thatportion tiat we would like vacated. Afl of that rand wilr'be used ror green
space ard for parking- There witl be no buirdirg on that area- The yeilowhere then represents the remaining right-of-way that wilr be left in -tlis areahere ard the orarge lire through here represents a cencer rine of the blacktop
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City @uncil I',teeting - August l7 , 1987
B.C. Brrdick: I have spoken with BilI Engelhardt about this ard vrhat that
does to me ard his directions ard angles here go just the olposi te of whatGnrlie James has presented here. fhis is BiIl Ergelhardt. Ihis just isn'tcorrect at aII. I just r., ish he was here tonight but I didn't know it wouldget into this.
e-ounciLman Ceving moved, @urcilman Horn seconded to close publ ic hearing.All voted in favor ard motion carried.
Courci lman Johnson: I don't really think I have anything other than, I
remember that in the subdivision ordinances when I iras researchirg this for adifferent project, coming r4> and compj-aining to the City C-ounc il at that time
about not posting the subdivision charqe. There is a little paragraph right
next to that that says t}is will not be grourds for dismissing the procedurein my memory as of about a year ago. I believe that if we look at our
subdivision ordinance r.re'lI find that posting is in the ordinance and should
be done but is not grounds to dismiss a subdivision procedure. Vacation
procedures may be slightly different.
@unci lman Ceving: If aII of the conunents, your comments relate to what Roger
may come up with in terms of procedure, then I don't have any questions but
the comment that Mr. Burdick brought up is a very important one and that is,is there a need for a petition by both property owners in an area ard we needto have tlnt resolved. If in fact one protrErty owner can make lEtition to the
Council representing 50% of the protErty owners in that particular area, Idonrt knovr.
@urcilman Johnson:
property.
His petition was to vacate half tie street tiat's on his
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@urpi Iman Geving: But it also affects the other properties in the area.
Thatrs the procedural question. Then of clurse ttle requirements that were
brought out in terms of staff. your response Barbara wiII probably be what
Roger comqs up with in ternls of the posting.
Barbara Dacy: Irll wait unEil the City Attorney.
@unciLman @virq: I just don't really have a lot of questions because we,ve
been at this project for a long time. Werve got to starE a part of thisproject before the other pieces can faLl in line ard sometimes itrs necessary L
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so I brought these exhibits this evenirg so that number one, I could
demonstrate that even after this vacation there will be ample shoulder orgre€n spac€ on the road ard that on Mr. Blrdick's side of ttre road 35 feet hasalready been vacated back a long time ago and I don't think any property
o$rners came in at that time ard complained that that was goirg to obstruct any
use of the north. this vacation, at t}lis point in time, is occurring entirelywithon our property ard this vacation is contempJ.ated because of the facE thaLI'm willing to donate ard have agreed to do so in writing, the entire 80 footstrip of lard for the new West 78tfi Street so Irm vrillirg to give 14) gO feet,I would like to get this approximately 45 feet back. I guess that's the endof my corments.
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City Counci I t4eeting - August L7, L}BT
to do a piece meal approach.
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Mayor Hamilton: Roger is back anl may have an answer to our questions.Roger, can you respord to the questions that Mr. Burdick raised about theposting and the petition and the partial vacation of the street?
Roger ltrutson: Partial vacation is fine, Iegally. A tEtition is notrequired - Itre City can do it on it's own moiion.
Mayor Hamilton: There was a petition however. I bel ieve Mr. James hastEtitioned, is that correct?
charr ie James: rltrere was a letter. r was just looking for a c.cpy of that andthere has been a constructive petition in the sense that we've b& urxierdiscussion since october. r have a letter going back to october, 19g6 whenthis whole thing was before the Cawer County Hiqhway Oepartnent..
Roger Knutson: rhe only significance of a lEt.ition, there is no petitionrequired. rt requires a four-fifths vote oi this body to vacate. rf there isa petition by majoriLy, and that means something more than half, Ehen that isreduced to a simple majority.
l,tayor tl,milton: t4hat. about the posting?
Roger Ioutson: It's requi red.
I'layor ttamilton: It is required. Can you tell r:s anything?
Roger lcrutson: The statute is sirent on that. whatever is the custompractice of the. city- They.can posted in city Harl, on your burlentin board,at the post office, at prominent places in the City. Th;t,s basd upo., yo,r.statues which unfortunately are about five years out of date. l,ty riorJ-ectionis that several places, and I don,t tnve theie memorized, "".r..ui piu.* ,f,.."these requirements exi.sted, the regisrature has gone through and eiiminatedthem so what f would suggest, if you desire to vacate, you can vacate itsubject to my checkinq Lo see whelher that posting on",- in f."t f,.. -L[.r,
place. Maybe it's taken place, I don,t know. fn just talkirq to Oon, Oondoesn't know if it's been posted. rf it,s reen poltea, thereis no problem orif that provision has been eriminated from the statutes you have no'problem.so_if you want to approve it then you can do it subject io cnecr<inq i.,-o"" tu,othings out.
Courci lman Geving: Ttre posting is required?
Roger Knutson: rf posting is. required anc postirg did not take place, then wet^rill just go through the posting-
Councilman Geving: Ard for what period of tinre is that?
Roger Knutson: r believe it's l0 days. It wir-L postpone tiis about 2 vreeks.
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City Counci I l,leeting - August 17, 1987
Councilman Horn: It appears to me that we would have a difficulty in setting
a partial vacation unless we know the exact plot lines of the highvray ard that
appears to be a question also. I think we need staff to clarify tiat for us.
Where the lines are in this thirg otherwise I don't know how we can get a
reasonable description for a partial dedication.
C.ary warren: We obviously haventt looked at it. At this point, surveys are
done by a registered lard surveyor. BilI Engelhardt has not expressd any
conrments to me. I don't know if he has to Plannirg about the fact that the
vacation was not consistent lrith what has been shown on the James plat. Ihose
plats have been arourd. l{a can certainly look into it.
Gnrlie James: One thing that Jim said about not being accurate, part of the
information that was used in Iocatirg things out there was Mr. Burdick's
survey that was done for tl:e Burdick Park 2rd Addition by Schoell and Madsen
ard thatrs on there ard ttey located they shoulders of ttE road ard the
section line and they determined the mat as being 44 feet wide ard thatrs
where, when we did our survey, we tied into some of that information ard cross
checked it and then Hanson-Pellom did my survey. As far as not having a
description, the description is simple. The description would be the north
45 feet of the south 75 feet of the west 467.2A.
Councilman Boyt: I think Roger has cleared i.t up in terms of sayirg that we
can vote on this subject to the condition he mentioned. werve been working
on this for a year. I'm a little surprised to see so much contention aE the
last mcment about this arrl I feel like it's timb to Eake action.
Resolution #87 -87'. councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Geving seconded
approve I vacat.ion as shown on the site plan dated August 13,
with the followirg corditions:
1. Any existing ubilities within the west 78th street right-of-t ay
proposed to be vacated shall be preserved by easements.
2. ltre remaining right-of-way of tJesE 78th SEreet shall not be vacated
until Ehe realigrxnent of west 78th street to Ehe north is cfilpleted.
3. the City Attorney review the current Iaw perta i.nng to posting
cri ter ia.
AII voted i.n favor and flption carried.
Clur I i.: .,-rm.-'s: rf I could just add one word. Ihere was a tEtition that wassent tr (:-rry tJarrcn on february L7, L9g7.
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Barbara Dacy: the display boards that }lr. James has presented tonight are
consistent with the submittals that we've worked on for the EEst year. @ain,Mr. hgelhardt has not aLerted as to any discrepency. As a matter of fact. we
specifically d irected Mr. James Eo have his erg ineer prepare these tlpes of
submittals so they can clarify this issue. I think staff is confident that we
know what the City is vacatirg.
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City Courcil tGeting - August L7, :-|ggT
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Mayor Hamilton: Frhaps you coutd also make cary your boards avairabre forwhatever researctl r.re rnay need to do. Is that possible?
charlie James: sure. r'rr just leave these here. r'11 reave thsn right now.
STREET \ACATION
'll
'.r0 i-Malor lramitton: rhis item has been before rE more than once previousry. rtrs;'' been recommended that the property u" ul""-t a arn retuinJ-lo G- -p.op..tv
owners- staff continues to make that recommerrlation. Ebrk arrl d aia notmake recommerdation of tni.s i!e.m rdhen they reviewed it just iecentiy arn its€sns to me to be a very straight forr.rard issue. Any cqments?
councirman cevirg: I.think the only discussion item for the peopre who arepresent here tonight is the c.rmeni from tle city Attorney. i-;rrd rike tohave vrritten into the record your comments Roger.- oourd fou restate thosebriefty.
Roger lhutson: yes, r was asked to take a 100k at this issue and determine ifthis pratted street clurd be one, used for non-street plrposes. A berchrot orswimming or docks or anything other than a street arrl the answer to that isno' Lard was dedicated in a plat dated 1910 as a street ard our supreme courthas said rhar when land is dedicared ro a citv f.-;;G;fi";;'=";" II'"only use it for that plrpose ard nore oEher. r was ario asked if tire citycould somehow seII the. proprty to someone, anyone, arxl the answer is no. AJ-Iys F"" is again the right to use it as a street. we have an easement on it.we donrt trave the fee title. We canrt use it for *Vtninq JL* L n"""nothirg to serl. !';,e can either leave it as it is o.- rru.uL it or use it as astreet .
counci rman Horn: I jpit hail one question about reviewing tie Minutes. thereh'as a question about the fact thac there were three prope-rty owneri- ard wespecurated at Ehat time that it r"rourd go to the on" -th.i
wo-uld own theadjacent rot- Now as. r saw the plot, t6ere were three peopre erho owned theadjacent lot. r think the specuiation ,u= thrt it wourd gt to th"-.r*rest oneto that even though the lot was not subdivided.
Barbara _Dacy: Right. WtEt I representd at the last meeting is that theowner of portion of Lot_58 immediaEely abuttirg tle proposed'";art; right-of-r.,ay lrould receive that larrl.
counci Lman Horn: EVen though there l"ere three ouners on that total rot.
lgr9ala-?acy: Righr- There are three meets ard,bourds descriptions existingon t,ot 58 that tnve been exi.sting for a nr:rnber of years.
@uncilman Boyt: r wourd like Eo Ehank the neighbors for puttirg in an effortto try to see if they couldn't constructively Ge the p.op"iiv-u:it-i urint tt"Iegal issues is prerty clear. !€ jusr don J l- h.ve Ehat';pli;;: --- '
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PLAIIiIERS / ENGIIIE€RS / SURV€YORS
IVEST VILLAGE TITIGHTS
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James R. Hill, inc.PRELIMIIIARY PLAT
I,AND DEVETOPIIEN T APPLICATION
CITY OT CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317(512) 937-1900
T.F.)fl.fif5 b .OIdNER:
ADDRES SADDREss 6LLl0 S!{ADYOilZ eD
EoeN lfi@e fi3tfqZiD Code$1*4@-zi p code
TELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQTJEST:
Zooing District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Iand Use Plan Amendment
Conditional- Use Permit
Site Plan Revie$,
Planned Unit Development
Sketch Plan
-
preliminary plan
Final Plan
X Plat t i ns ArUA{Dt$€r{T-
Metes and Bounds
St r ee t,/ Eas eme n t Vacation
Wetlands Pelmit
PRoJECT NAME NE ,T VutA&€HA
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQTJESTED I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT ZONING
REOIJESTED ZONING
USES PROPOSED
SIZE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION
NED
ld r-;;:;'
APPLICANT :
TELEPHONE
Subdivi sionX
REASONS FOR THIS REOUEST
uN
euM${AnEAit& DlvrLEGAL DESCRI
CITY OF
EHANHISSEN
STAFF R=PORT
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Preliminary Plat to Replat Five Conmercial Lots Into
Six Commercial Lots
Northwest corner of west 78th Street and Kerber
Bou l evard
PROPOSAL !
LOCATION:
T. F. James
6640 Shady oak Road, Suite 500
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
BG, General Business Di str ict
21.7 acres
N- R-I2;
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9lest Village Townhomev_ Z/ 1 7 /?i
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BG; vacant
OI; City Hal1
R-I2 i vacaat
Available !o property.
The site contains sleep
Iand is currently being
Commercial
slopes and the
farmed.
P.C. DATE: Feb. 17, 1988
C. C. DATB: It{arch 7 , 19 88
CASB NO: 85-11 SUB
Prepared by: O1sen,/v
APPLICANT:
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T.F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 5-13-5, the BG District requires that a lot have
mum area of 20,000 square feet, a minimum of I00 feet offrontage, and a minimum 1ot depth of 150 feet (Attachment
REFERRAL AGENCIES
a mini-lot
#1) .
BRW Consulting Engineer
Fire Inspector
Carver County
BACKGROUND
Attachmen t
Attachme n t
Attachmen t
*2
*3
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On January L2, 1987, the City Council approveil the final plat forWest Village Heights for the creation of five commercial lots andone high density parcel (Atrachment f5). The approved 1ots con-Lained the following areas:
Lot
Lot
Lot
Lot
Lot
Block 2
Block f
BLock 1
Block i-
Block 1
res
acres
acres
acres
acres
1I
2
3I
2acI.5
2.6
.9
11.9
Attachment #6 shows the approveC five commercial lots.
On August L7, 1987, the applicant received approval for a par-tial vacation of Wesc 78th Street (Attachment f7). The partial
vacation returned property to the applicant from the West 78thStreet right-of-way that tlra s no longer necessary due to the
realignment of West 78th Street.
As part of the subdivision proposal and reaJ-ignment of West 78thStreet, the Ciry performed a feasibility study for the Powers
Boulevard,,/West 78th street detachment. The feasibility study
reviewed proposed improvements to West 78th StreeL and Powers
Boulevard,/Co. Rd. 17 (stormsewer, landscaping and bike trails).
As part of the approved preliminary plat, the applicant provideo
a ponding area to retain post development runoff on sit.e prior toit entering Burdick's property to the south ( LoE 2, Block 1).
Upon review of ihe feasibility study it was det.ermined that the
stormwater retention basin was no longer necessary on the Jamesproperty. The runoff instead will be directed to a ponding areaon the Eckankar property to the west.
ANALYS I S
As a result of
removal of the
the partial vacation of West 78th Street and the
drainage easement betvreen Lots 2 and 4, Block I,
T. F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 3
the applicant has additional land that can be used for a commer-cial site. The applicant is requesting a replat of the approvedfive commercial lots to increase the number of lots by one. The
proposed lots contain the following areas:
Lot 1,
Lot 1,Lol 2,Lot 3,Lot 4,Lot 5,
Block 2
Block I
Block I
Bl.ock 1Blocr 1
Block I
2.
1.
1I.
L2.
1.
9 acres
5 acres
ac re
5 acresl acresl acres
The proposed replat essentially splits LoE 2, Block 1 into tr"rolots and also increases the acreage of Lot 3, Block 1. AI1 ofthe lots meet the minimum requirements of the BG District. The
attacheci report from Gary Ehret of BRW, reviews engineering
aspects of the proposed replat (Attachment f2).
The new storm-water plan for the ciLy provides for the ponding
area on the Eckankar sit,e and removes the necessity of theponding area on the West Village HeighEs propertsy. The City willinitiate negotiations with the owners of the Eckankar property toacquire t.he necessary drainage easements. The ponding area onthe Eckankar site is preferred over the ponding area on the Jamesproperty. If the drainage easement on the Eckankar site cannotbe acquired, through initial negotiations, then the city wouldinitiate condemnation procedures. UntiI the ponding area isacquired on the Eckankar site, Lots 2 and 3, Block l- cannot betleveloped. Therefore, staff is condiLioning approval of the pre-liminary plat on the city acquiring the necessary drainage ease-
ments on the Eckankar site prior to the development of Lots 2 and3, Block 1.
S treets
The plat is dedicating 40 feet of right-of-way along West 78thStreet which is acceptable to the City. The plat is also dedi-cating 50 feet of right-of -r4ray east of the centerline on PohrersBoulevard (County Road 17). The feasibilrty study assuned aright-of -rlray of 150 f eet on Por.rers Boulevard ( CR i7 ) ( 75 f eet oneither side of the centerline) to accommodate Iighting,
landscaping and bike trails. Carver County typieally requires a150 foot right-of-way on roads with Powers Boulevard (CR 17)classification but is willing Lo accept 100 feet of right-of-vrayif street improvements can be accommodated. The proposed street
improvements on Powers Boulevard (CR 17) can be built within theexistinE I00 foot right-of-way. Currently, the city also has a
permanent. 30 foot easement along the westerly boundary of the
James property including Lot 1, Block 1, and Lot 1, Block 2. Thepreliminary plat shoss this easement as 25 feet and this shouldbe changed to 30 feet. The existing 30 foot drainage and utilityeasement can be used for the landscaping, lighting and bike
T. F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 4
trails and additional- street right-of-way is not required. Staffis recommending that the drainage and utility easement be amendedto include trails (i.e. drainage, utility and trail easement).
Driveways
The existing plat for West Village Heights !7as conditioned uponLots 3 and 4, Block 1, sharing driveways and that Lot 1, Block I
and Lot 1, Block 2 maintain at least 200 feet of driveway separa-tion from Po$rers Boulevard (Attachment #8). Shared driveways and
minimum separations from Powers and Kerber Boulevard should still
be maintained. Staff is recomrnending that a maximum of 4 drive-
irays be permitted along the north side of West 78th Street analthat a minimum 300 foot separation sha1l be provided bet\deen
driveways and Powers (CR 17) and Kerber Boulevard. Driveway
entrances from the north side of West 78th Street should beIocated di.rectly opposite of existing driveways on the south sideor placed in a location such that future driveways on the southside can be constructed opposite of those on the north, i.e. lotIines.
There should be a maximum of two driveways along Kerber and a
driveway servicing Lot 5, Block 1, should be opposite of CoulterDrive. It is reconmeniied that there should be no direct access
Eo Powers Boulevard. Any access to Powers Boulevard will requirea permit from Carver County.
i4iscel-laneous
The Fire Inspector recomrrended that the fire hydrants be 300apart. Carver County requested plans for the new West 78th
Street/Poviers Boulevard (CR 17) intersection prior to final
approval.
feet
plat
S UMMARY
The proposed replat of West Village Heights meets al-I of the
requirements oi the BG, Generaf Business District.
Planning staff recomnends
following motion:
the Plann:.ng Commission adopt the
"The Planning Commission recoinmends approval of Subdivisicn
Request f86-11 for west Village Heights tso replat five commerciallots into six commercial lots as shovrn on the plat stamped
"Received January 28, 1988" rvith the following conditions:
There shall be a maximum of 4 driveways on the north side of
West 78th Street and the drivways shal1 be directly oppositeof existing driveways to the south or placed in a location
such that f Lrture driveways on the south side can be constructedopposite of those on the north (i.e. lot lines).
1
T. F. James Replat
February 17, 1988
Page 5
)
3
4.
Lot 5, Block 1 shall share access to West Tgth Street withLot 4, Block I at a minimum of 300 feet from Kerber Boulevardto intersect with the Burdick property to the south.
A maximum of 2 driveways shall be allowed along KerberBoul,evard and a driveway servicing Lot 5r BIoc[ 1, shall bedirectly opposite Coulter Drive.
There shall be no driveway access to powers Boulevard (CR17).
5 Final site plans
criteria for 100
The drainage
site must be
BLock 1 and
west border
sha1l conform to city and watershed ditrictyear freeboard elevation.
6 easement for the ponding area onacquired prior to development ofthe 25 foot utility and drainagesha1l be increased to 30 feet.
the Eckankar
Lots 2 and 3,
easement on the
Section 5-13-5 of the Zoning Ordinance.Letter from Gary Ehret, BRW, dated February 1I, 19gg.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated February 1, 199g.
Memo from Carver County dated February 1, l9gg.City Council minutes dated January 12, L987.Approved plat for 5 commercial lots.City Council minutes dated AugusE. 17, 1987.
ApproveC driveways.Preliminary plat stamped "ReceiveC January 2g, 19gg".
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
ATTAC HMENTS
I
I
t
I
t
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
1. parking totsZ. Signs
5-13-4 The following are
5-13 -5
6
conditional uses in a DBG| district:
sale or rentrecreat ional
square feet.
outdoor display of merchandj.se forIII?II _autornobire, farm i;;i;;";;,venlcles and boat sales ani serviceEquipnent rental
S_creened outdoor storageMajor auto repair ana 6oay sfrops
Lot Requirements and Setbacks. The fol-lowing rninirnurnrequirenents sha11 be observed i;-; ;;;; District subiectto additional recruirements, exceptionf-ana rnodificati6n setforth in this Ord-inance.
tttinirnun Lot Area : 20 , OOO
Minirnum Lot Frontage: 1OOa_ cul-de-sac shall have aall districts).
1
2 f::! (exg:pt rots frontins onm:.nt-mum 60 foot frontage in
3
4
5
Mininun Lot Depth: 150 feet.
MaximuD 1ot coverag e. 7oZ.
setbacks. off-street !g.].]lS areas shal.l- cornply withall yard requirement=. of tni.i =""iioil""*cept that norear yard parkinq sellack siraf i -fe *ieiuirea
for lotsdirecrly abuttini "1iJ.olg Iii"xii"i=.rlo, .,o side yardshalr'- be. requirea when adjoining conmercraJ_ usesestablish joint off_st.""i p"ii.i"s-ilIiii.tes, asprovided in section ,7_!_7, !".lpi,tilI.no parking areasshal1 be perrnitted in 1ny requiiea-siJe street sideyard. Mininun rear .rard 3ha11'-t"-io"iI5t for torsdirectly abuttins aiy nes:.aen.i"i"ofiIlicr. side srreersrde yards shall be a minimurn "r zi-f.ii.
A. Front yard: 25 feet.
B. Rear yard: 25 feet.
C. Side yard: tO feet.
Maxinun Height:
A. Principal Structure: three
FI
I
t
.
-1rI
-56-
stories/40 feet
L
2
3
4
5
ilDmepneav
.---l-;-:Dulb. iiJ'
PLANNING
TRANSPOFTATION
ENGINEERING
ARCHITECTURE
BENNEII RIIJGROSE IA/OLSFELD. JAflr'E, GAFONEF Irc . THAESHEa SOU}RE . 7m IHIRO STR€EI SICUTH . MINNEAFpLIS MN 564]5 . PHoNE 6]a.70-07@
February 11, 1988
Gary l{arren
City of Chanhassen
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 5 5317
RE: l.lest Village Heights, 2nd Addition
P lat Rev i ew
Plat Modi fi cati ons
The differences between the previously submitted plat and the preliminary plat
under review are:
The night-of-way dedicatjon
feet assumed in the }Jest 78t
ferred with the County regar
now to require a 150-foot to
thi s c lass i fi cati on
side dedi cati ons fo
i t. A concern for
I andscapi ng, and bi
we are
the are
two lots now designated as Lots 2 andt has been renumbered Lot 5 of Block
alonq County Road 17 is fifty feet and not the 75
h Street Detachment Feasibiljty Study. l.le have con-
ding width requirements. Hhile it is their policy
tal dedication (75 feet per side) on roadways of
told they would be w'i ll'ing to accept fifty-foot per
a in concern provided that roadway geometrics allow
ot 2 of Block t has been
of Block 1. Former Lot
L
3
1
split into
3 of Bl ock
The drainage and utility easement for ponding purposes, located in portions
of former Lots 2 and 4 of Block 1, has been el iminated.
R ight-of -!,lay
The right-of-way dedjcation along West 78th Street is forty feet. This is con-
sisteni vJ'ith the feasibility study and is suffjcient to allow construction of
the Hest 78th Street jmprovements.
rt
k
he reduced width involves future p'lans for l ighting,
e trails along County Road 17. Final plans for the Uest
OA/IO J BENI€TT
croilAlD a HUtrT
CFAIG A AMTAOSEN
OENNIS J SUTTIFF
MINNEAPOLIS
CSNAO W FNiIGFICEE
MARK G S:WENSOI\I
REHAND P !!q.SFEID
DENVER
LA fiENCEJ C-qrcr{EA
FICHAFiD O ALGBIM
ntot'ras f caFrc(
OALE N 8EC(MANN
PHOENIX
fia
Dear Mr. Warren:
As per your request, ve have rev'iewed the final plat for West Village Heights
2nd Addition, as submitted by James R. Hill, Inc., on January 28, 1988. }le
would like to express the following corments and concerns:
Mr. Gary
February
Page 2
l.la r re n1t, 1988
78th Street Detachmen t / Pov',e rs Boulevard reconstruction are currently being
designed. The new Powers Boulevard street section can be built within the
50-foot existing right-of-way to the east. Expansion of the right-of-way to the
west may be desirable. Subject to approval by Carver County, the existing 50
feet of right-of-way (east of the centerline), as shown on the plat, 'i s accep-table. Landscaping, pathways, etc., could be constructed outside of the right-
of-way on the existing sanitary sewer easement that the City currently retains
through th is a rea.
Driveway Entrance
Driveway entrances present both a potent'ial driving hazard, and an obstacle to
the normal flow of turn traffic. For this reason the number and location of
driveway entrances should be carefully considered. Review of this plat submit-tal in conjunction with adjacent platting is important to insure consistency and
coordination of driveway access points to the adjacent roadway system.
Three roadways offer access to the T.F. James plat considered here. l.le offer
the fol lowing recormendations for driveway access to each roadway:
Powers Boul evard (CSAH 17)
Driveway access to Powers Boulevard is not recormended. Sight distances, traf-fic speed, etc., merit specific concern on Powers Boulevard, and driveway accessis not recormended. Final review and approval of dr.iveway entrances to Powers
Boulevard will be by permit from Carver County. The developer should meet alIcriteria as establ ished by the County.
l,lest 78th Street
Driveway entrances to t,lest 78th Street should meet three basic criterja:
l. No driveway entrance should be al'lowed vrithin 300 feet of an
intersection.
Driveway entrances should achieve maximum spacing between each, should
be shared whenever possible, and should be located to so as to insure
clear site distances. (A maximum of four d|iveways appears appropiiate
on l,lest 78th Street. )
3.Driveway entrances to the north sjde of l.,est 78th Street should be
located directly opposite of those on the south side of l.lest 78thStreet, or placed in a locatjon such that future driveway entrances on
the south side can be constructed directly opposite those built on the
north side. (Staggering of driveway entrances is not desirable.)
2
l',lr. Gary warren
February 11, 1988
Page 3
Kerber Drive
A maximum of two driveway entrances should be allowed along Kerber Drive. The
Review of a comprehensive plan for this area indicates the developer's intent to
provide shared driveway access from Lots l and 2, Block I and Lots 3 and 4,
Block 1. This is appropriate and in concurrence with the criteria identified
above.
Storm 0 raj nqge
The previous plat submittal included an area designated as a drainage easement
for storm water ponding. The current plat submittal does not reflect this
drainage easement. The requirement for storm water retention on this property
(and therefore the need for an easement) can be waived based upon three primary
cri teria. They are:
l. As addressed in the feasibility study for the l,lest 78th Street
Detachment, downstream storm piping is not yet in place. The oppor-
tunity to determine the appropriate pipe sizes is within the control
and at the discretion of the City.
The developer has agreed to the incremental costs associated with the
increased pjpe sizes wh'ich are necessary because of the eliminati0n of
on-site storm water retention. Reimbursement of the increased costs
should be a part of the developer's agreement.
?Storm water ponding is proposed just west of the appl icant property.
The opportunity to realize the inherent benefits of on-site ponding can
be achieved with this proposed pond eliminating the specific need for
ponding on the appl icant's site. However, the incremental value ass0-
ciated with the increased ponding requirements should also be the
responsibility of the developer.
fi rst driveway shou IStreet. If future e
recormend p'lacement
The second en t ran ce
78th Street descri be
v{e have compl eted
point wiI I be cons
feet east of Powe r
the south th roug h
in the street and
I evel at the t'Jest
2
doc
xtenofa
shou
dab
ap
tru
SB
the
adj
78t
cur no closer than 250 to 300 feet from llest 78th
s'ion of Coulter Drive to the west is not considered, we
driveway entrance directly opposite of Coulter Drive.
ld attempt to meet the criteria in Condition #2 for }lest
0ve.
rel iminary review of the hydraul ics of th'i s area. A low
cted in the West 78th Street Detachment approximately 500
oulevard. FIood routing for a 100-year storm must occur to
James Property and the Burdick property or it will occur
acent park'ing areas. l'le estimate the 100-year high water
h Street low point to be about 953 to 953.5. AII sit
submittals associated w'i th this development should insure compliance with
City and l.ratershed criteria re'lative to this 100-year elevation. First fl
building elevations should account for a minimum two-foot freeboard above
100-year elevation.
e pl an
both
o0 r
the
Mr.
Feb
Pag
arren
1, 1988
It must also be pointed out that the storm sewer system serving this area will
flow to the designated ponding area on the Eckinkar property. The City does not
currently retain the right to ponding on this property. It is critical that
negotiations begin as soon as possible with the property owners to retain
ponding rights/easements as descri bed.
Recormenda t i ons
1. }le recofinend that the future driveway locations conform as closely a5
possible to the guidelines as described in this letter.
2. lie recormend that final site plans conform to City and watershed crjteria
for 100-year freeboard el evations.
If v,e can be of further assistance, please let me know.
Sincerely,
BENNETT-RINGROSE-l.JOLSFELD.JARVIS.GARDNER, INC.
6.a;,\4 A. r-x,.or'l 6I(
Gary A. Eh ret, P.E.
GAE/ 5K
Attachment
Gar
ruar
e4
yl,Iyl
MEI{ORANDUM
TO3
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Jo Ann Olson, Asst. City planner
CITY OF
CHINHISSEN
,q4Steve Madden, Fire Inspector
February 1, 1988
General Business, west TBth
BouLevard s
Street and Powers, Kerber
I recomrrend that the fire hydrantsyou have any questions, please see
be placed 300 feet apart. If
me.
fr3
PU BLIC WONKS DEPARTMENT
(612) /r48.3435
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST 4TH STR EET
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318
COUNTY OT CABVTB
February l 1988
Ms. JoAnn OlsenCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter DriveP. O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RE: Planning Case 86-l1 Subdrvrsron (West Vil1age Heights)
Dear Ms. Olsen:
We have revrewed the submrtted
above pl annr ng case.
preliminary plat amendment to the
Now that the revocatron of CSAH 16 rs complete, the County has nointerest in the 78th St. Corrrdor. The C.S.A.H. 16 deslgnatlonof the plat should be removed.
The proposed change should not effect the proposed 78th Streetentrance onto CSAH 'l 7 ( Powers Blvd. ).
Before the finai plat ts approved, the County wouldplans for the new 78th St/C9AH 17 intersectionproposed changes to CSAH 17 if rtecessary.
Irke to see
a long wj th
Thank-you f or -'r,e ocporalin i -!:,, to subm] t cur comments.
Sincerely,
( /CkC/'-,?1. 1' 47--'-/
William J. I.Jecl(man P.E.
AssI Stant County Eng ineer
i{.:!-;. ', L.-
1
Alli:'noti,e ActioitEq@l Owo unitv Emplow''
FEB 1O I98B
CITY OF CHANHASS€N
WJW/cj r
w4
a74
until the time that tE CitV firds a replaaement for Jim Castleberry. AIIvoted in favor and motion carried.
1 ....!g=l.Psry,tol1 . Courrilman Geving moved, Counci Iman Horn secordd toappornE Mayor rbnilton.as Weed Inspector ard the City Eng ineer, Ciq,, wu..* *Assistance weed rns[Ector. arr voted in favor ard riotioin .".]i"a.
i' Fire Chief: Mayor. lramilton moved, counci lman Horn seconded to atrprove Artt<erEF-as-E-rire chief. A1r ";lJil;.;r and morion carried.
j. neatth Officer: _ Fry-o. Hamilton moved, Councilman C€ving seconed toapornE-or.- oaTEaccoirum * ti,e cityG'Hearth officer. Arr voted in favorard motion carried.
k- city AuditoEs: Ma_yor Hamirton moved, courri Lnan Horn secoDded toauthEl-ze-TEE-r-ga6 Arrafit conEae t -G'ft.. of voto, Tautges, Redpath ardCfipany. All voted in favor ard notion carried.
CONSEIIT AGENDA: Mayor -thmil ton moved, Councilman Horn seconded to a,prore theE6T-owing-'E;;6nt agenaa itans p-rrsuant- io--tt . ci ty lranager' s recqmendations :
X L ,", Einal plat Atrpro\ral, West Village Heights, James C.:cq)any.
(b) Amendment Io _the Joint powers Agreement Estabrishing ttre southwestArea Transit @nmission.
City Courcil Meeting - January 12; LggT
(c) Resolution *87-1:Alproval of tand Use plan AmendmentStreet and Crestview Drive in the M
t
Request to
etropol i tan
LIncludeWest 55th
Urban Service Area.
(d)
(e)
(f)
(i) Resolution #87-2:
eI@-EF-GaEEEEen.
Approval of Certificate of @rrection, Fox Hollor., 4th Addition.
Acrept Resignation from park a',i Recreation commissioner, warrace MctGy.
Set Special Meeting Date for Joint City Counc i l/park and RecreationCormission meeting.
All voted in favor ard rrotion carried.
Mayor Hamilton stated that because tlpre were a number of popre present at
Y.te megtirg regarling Consent Agerrla items, the Councilo,ifa ti=iro ii".=(s) ana 61 at this point in ttrt meeting instead of at the end of the ,""ti.,g.
(g) MRPA Request to HoId. the Men,s District softball TournamentEix.
Reguest to Remove No park Zone along Kiowa Trail,
at Lake Ann
*1
tcouncilman Borrt: ttrey are real brief on (g), that,s the one about the Men,sDistrict softbalr sourrEment ard that,s ""tLidy exciting r=r= io *- in"tthey are interested in using our field. f wouia suggest that rather than
2
";,44
City Courci 1 tfeeting - Ncvqrber 17, 19g6
E RONI )|ARD SEItsACK RIAI\CE REOUEST, 7G0 CAK/ER BEACH ROAD , GARY BASS
T.F. JAI-TES COMPANY, IIORIHEAST CORNER OF wEsT 78TH STREEf, (CR 15) AND POWERSBLvp. (cR Ia:
A. REQUEST 10 REZONE 43 ACRES
RESIDEI\CE DISTRICT I NTO 18.
t
Courci lwoman watson: we granted the variancre. There literally was no placeerse on this rot for this gentlemen to Ert a garage. tb was loirg to Lve ityay ry ani it was going to be a problem lecau-se t6 is goinq ti, liy ,.a prt .basement underneath it arri it was just going to seeln very large. -rt woulahave been hrelr above the house but he i; *i aoing trr"t a"a altuarry it isonly like the roof of the garage that is goirg to be showing. Oue [o tfresignificant slope tlere, there was ro ptaie eise for him to-puia-giiG.*it was especiarry desirable because he is parkirg, technicarriy ,orid G "tr."tright-of-way now right out in front of hii house-. le is jusf sort of g:[ irrgoff in a gravel area- rtris wirr get his vehicres off, doin u a.i""r.v-urg orrthe street aesthetically as i.rell ls frcrn a safety standpoint.
Barbara Dacy: I can give a presentation cover ing both items. Ihe parcel isabout 50 acres in size arrl it is right next door to us across xerbei glvo.between pogrers Blvd- and on tle north side of west Tgth street just north ofrtt 5 ard the por^rers Blvd. intersection. The first request is f5r a rezoningaction. To be c.onsistent with what is shown on the crirrent adoptJ ---'
Comprehensive Plan, the commercial alorg the frontage of the priperty ard highdensity -murtipre famiry.on the northern portion so -th" sur.r"1l tir.t-you- t.rr"r-ecorded in the descriptions are consistent with the existirg' goid" 6i- ro.the city of chanhassen. The pranning commission recommended- alprovai of therezonirg action presented in the staif Report. the subdivisioi'r-"-q,;1i'i" "rittre more invorved. rhe^ major issue. in the preliminary prat ."qul"t- i= th"realignment of west Tgth street. you heard a iot about that when Mr. Burdickplatted his property across the street. Just to back up fo, u *upf" oiminutes, I want to review briefly sone of the history about why tGrealignment ard why the rearignment of west Tgth street is imirtant to thecity of chanhassen. scrne of you were on various commissions ina aoiras auringthe time when develoguent for what was known then as the Highpath prop".ty ru"beirg considered. rhis is a transparency of an ord pran uac[ ?rom 'rs7's-rgao.
the Counci I at that time was even considering separlting the streeiintersection from the intersection of rH 5 ard powers Blvd. and cR 17. Thispond which is in the southeast corner of the Highpath farm and just west orthe first proposed entrance on that proposed preriminary ptan J tn"i"-[ina orhas arways been a history as far as trying to maximize ttrl sep"ration-from theintersection. In fact, on the south side to the Business e".i yo, h.r.-.simiLar situation where you separated park Drive a good way froir the miiorintersection. Also, the original downtown redeverofinent pi.". *i,*-tii.i ,".adopted in r98g addressed tlre realignment issue. egain, -tne .o^*.i"i.i-* trr"south side of Llman ard so on, pointing uo a rearigrimeni of west zath-itreet
INIO R-4, HIGH DENSITY RESIDE},II-AL.
ST]BDIV]SION OF 50.4 ACRES OF PROP ERTY IN]A FIVE COMMERCIAL LryIS AND
ON E HIGH DENSITY PARCEL.
t
E
I8
PROPERTY FROM AGRICULTURAL
B.
r 9n the ngrth' As you can see, maximizing the distance ard stackirg distan.efrom 1, 5. r'rore recently the HRA comm is-si on, ur. yur zgos tir""6.t"tio.,study which came to be known as the Broaden*i stray ar""-fu"i-u uiJJ-ii.tor"of the transportation system in chanhassen and inco pclen prairie aJ -
documented the traffic vorunes ard numbers for the neea roi u-""p"."ti.nbetween west Tgtr street and that intersection. Based on p.oi.ciions -rrom
theyi.I^30?l*t_!-lt$y shoe,ed rhat thar inrersecridr lrourd iuii-ii-r..rtn*"ntr's not ac'compr i' shed. so given those various factors, when the uppii.int .u*"to staff initially there eras a lot of discussion of where stroura'tire-rearignment fall on porrers Blvd. and so on and with tte t":.p "i tr,e actuarvoltmes ard numbers crunched by Benshoof and Associates witfr tfreltansportation study, r{e were able to determine that the a.ouni ot selEration
"Iool9 l" approximately Ggg f@t. The next issue was the design "u*L.' no,shourd west 78th street flow into pcwers Blvd.? The concern rii.,g -J" - irp..tto the Burdick prolErty to tlE south. The pranning commissiqr-tairJ-tiris[Erticu]-ar plat in october into l.Iovernber to make sure t]Et Mr. Brrdick'sconcelns were addressed.
.W.- h"d- a joint meetirg with t nDot, Carver @unty ardthe property owners affected ard it was determined that the 35 mph design::-. i: the most appropriate desigrn curve through tf,ii.i.u -..u?,iiJi"".
State Standards, etc.. As some of you know, West Tgth Street is a Couniys'.te Aid Highway. The queston arises as io how can ttE realignment beachieved ar*l as. tlre report goes through what can be done is trrat the city canrequest a redesignation from @unty state Aid to Munici[Er state aii aJ trratinvorves a speed rimit study, rooking at reducing it fr6m 4o mprr down to tnerecommended 35 m[:h desigrn curve. Agiin, the citt staff is re"o..".ni'rq tti.rearignment to improve the overarr function of ihe entire .oua*"y-"y"t3.. Atthat joint meeting of the jurisdictions affected ard tle p.op"rty oin.i"affected, the issue was what.is the best way to accomprisi tire .Luiig;ent .ndtt. purpose that that serves- but atso frontirg for aciess to ""i"lin!--
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gI?FI!i"=: r{har was agreed upon is ro make lhe existing atignmeni 6t west78th. street a right-in anc right-out ard tfnt would theri',T' into therealignment west Tgth streeE- what would occur is a vacation of .or* of thatard that wourd be up to the decis_ion of the property owners of alr oi l.rt orthe right-of-way so that you srourd have a grLeri area arourrf that and a 60foot. right-of-way berd irg into the rea}ignmint roadway. rhat stilr arrows forstacking distance from the north aod . p-roper right tirn movement l.to ti,"area.. If you, lranted to go dorrnto$rn you would come to a 90 degree stop. - ItvrouLd also allow for the realigned iraffic to flow properly ai weII. thePlanning commission recommended approval of this aeiign pei tte coJitionsthat you have in tie staff Report. Arso, they recommend& a q>ecific conditionas far as the number of access points. rt is risted as commisiion corditionnumber 6 and as separation of dri veways from the intersection. orc"- trr"rearignmenE is achieved, separation of- the driveway can be rocated 2q0 f@Efrom Frcwers Blvd.. FinaLly, in regards to the applicant, there is a concernwhether or not the rearigrunent strouta rc accompr i ihed uy'a right;f-,rJi"o. unoutlot. Staffrs recommendation number 3 is thit upon execution arrinegotiation of a develoSxnent contract that the reai.ignment shouk L pratted
i:-: Ji?!!-of-$ray. Aga-in, the ptanning Commission recommerxled .pp.orr-.t ofDoul rrems as presenEed in your staff Reports and as far as ttp iiruaivision isconcerned, the eight conditions listed in your Report.
City Counci 1 Meeting - Novernlcer l7,I9gG
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City Counci I t'reeting - Novqnber 17, 1986
@uncilwoman Swenson: I have a question not doirg to that but on the
recammerdations Barbara. I don't urderstard why was the recommerdation from
the Park ard Rec De[Ertment for ttp bikeway classification not included by the
Planning @mission?
Barbara Dacy: Irm sorry, I should have addressed ttrat. A.s you can see the
Park ard Rec wanted the Courcil, really they are makirg rp recommerdation to
the Courcil to look at the separated bikeway improvement along that area. A
Class I Bikeway Classification, if you have the roadway separated by sidewalks
and then separated bikeway. Gte feasibility of erhether or not that can occurtrill be stuil ied durirg the feasibility study process to see if we have ernugh
right-of-way in that aligrunent to account for that. Also troubled with thefact that we are goirg through the downtown improvement feasibility study
phase ard tlp attached bikeway is proposed on tire north side of West 78ttl
Street ard the HRA will be discussirg that in more detail but my conunent isthat it should be coord inated with the dor.rntown effort so that you have a
smooth flow of lEdestrian traffic. Tte recommerdation frcrn the park ard Rec
Ccrmission is to the Courrcil.
Mayor tlamilton: Was there any consideration given to ho$, we are going to
align or how the biryclers will get to f,ake Ann? There are a lot of kids that
use that path during the summer and would r.re want them to go through the newly
aligned 78th or are we goirq to want them to go l][) to the ne$, part? If they
go up to the new intersection, we want to look at having something immediately
across tlle street so they would cross ard get on a IEth there rather then
staying on the street.
Barbara Dacy: Yes, that is a good poiot. It was not. discussed at the planning
Commission meeting. Whether or not it was discussed at the Park ard Rec
meeting I do not krrcw. ltE Planning Commission did suggest some alternatives
that we could look into further. Maybe a bike path through ttre rnultiptefamily area to the north. ltnt might be accomplished. ltrey were kind of
concerned beirg that West 78th Street was a major rod ard so on, so those
issues had to be decided and should be during the feasibility study as far as
costs, etc..
Mayor Hamilton: How would that intersection be handl-ed as far as stop signs
ard traffic flo$r? CqnirE frcm the north especially.
Barbara Dacy: Etom Powers? there rrould be no signage or conErol on powers.
There will be a stop sign here ard down here at the xf, into West 78ti SEreet.ltpre wiLl probably be an islarxi in here, a right-in/right-out onty ard tlle
major stop light at IH 5 ard Povrers.
Mayor Hamilton: !{iLL there be a left turn lane at powers BIvd. and Tgth soif there is rrc stop there traffic can continue to flow? The new intersectionof Ercvrers.
Barbara Dacy: !,bt thaE I'm asrare of. Bill?
BiU Ergelhardt: I r.rould think there $rould tEve to be.
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r l,layor fbmilton: there vrould have to be a left turn lare because you said
there r.,asn I t going to be a stop sign.
Courci lwoman Watson: I guess Irm lEving trouble understanding why anlrone
vrould come off of IH 5 ard go to that upper intersection ard I can.t
urderstard why chiLdren coning out of Gran going to the park are going to gotIEt way either. they are goirg to keep goinE straight as they go. They arestill going to be in the middle of that intersection. people take the pathof least resistance. They are goirg to come off of IH 5 ard tlEy are goirg togo in on West 78th Street into Chan precisely as they are now so I guess Iim
confused as to what ve are solving.
Barbara Dacy: So you are questioning why are we realigrning it if traffic is
ccning up in this waf
City Council l,leeting - November 17, 1986
Courci lman Horn: Or why are lre leaving tiat in?
Courr i l woman Watson: I can understanl why we want Eo do it. I have always
known that we wanted to ard $rtry ere $ranted to do it. I guess with the 78t].
Street open down there, I just don't see that it is going to solve much. I
think people are still goirg to use it as they have always used it ard nobodyis going to bother to use that nice little road up there.
l,layor tlamilton: Except that when you take a right turn in there on the
existing 78th, they are going to have to come to a stop at the intersection.If you continue up to Ehe new intersection you just go thtough it. you won.t
have to make a stop.
Barbara Dacy: ltaffic clming out of the downtown too will use this to serve
these comercial Lots as well.
Counci Iman Horn: they won't have Eo stop iE they come tirough there, from
downtown.
Barbara Dacy: You are saying they will come in like this?
Councilman Horn: Sure.
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Barbara Dacy: tte primary reason for leavirg the existirg alignment again isto provide an access to tlle Burdick property. If this does not exist then the
two lots down here would have to have access down at this point here. To
answer Carolrs concern about why are we realigning this. One of the reasonsis the stackirg distancre that will occur fron the stop light here ard thatwill, bLock this intersection tEre for the left turn movement out from existing
West 78th Street.
Mayor Hamilton: then tl.ey can only take a right out. If they are going to
take a right m}^dayr they might as well keep going.
BiIl EngelhardE: I was going to comment that that is just fine if they do
take that right tum into downtown. Another reason for the realignment is thepotential road to the erest for future frontage road then those two would match
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City Courcil l,leeting - l,trovgnber 17, 1,986
up ard then you would have your major intersection up there but that is justfine if t}ley take that right-off right do$rn into your redevelognent area right
downtown. That works very nicely.
Uayor tlamilton: that fits with the Burdick property ard for...
Councilwoman Watson: It certainly is interesting. I guess I rEver expectedit to look this.way. I was nothing short of fascinated by the ultimatl aesignof ttE whole thing.
lGyor Hamilton: I kind of like it. I think it r,torks out really hEII.
Charlie James: I pointed out to tbe planning Commission ard I would like topoint out here too that we stop thinking of this sometimes as a [rtbl ic street
because originally what we had dore is brought this down ard we were goirg toprovide an easement across through here and making a portion of the biackiophere sufficient to access Mr. Brrdick's prolErty ard so then vacate back therest of t}le right-of-way. night now it is a I50 foot right-of-way ard ttle taris only 4g foox wide out there so we are proposirg tlEt everythirg would be
vacated back. Mr. Burd ick r.rras very concerned about people making this
movement on TH 5, com irg L[> here tike this ard then down ard arourd to getinto these prolErties ard tE was asking for a right turn into his propeity. Ilvouldn't care if this right hard movement just vrent into his propety. I couldcare less but tien $re have to get t}lem out of his proeprty again so it is sortof a right-out or going this way ard I think one way to look at this thing is
we are going to have a 80 foot right-of-vray up here and you were saying why
would people turn here or r^rhatever. you are goirg to trave a much improved
road, you're qoing to have medians in tJ:e highway here and nedians in thisstreet here with turn lanes ard this ctculd have tlre appearance here of say an
area like Southdale or someplace where you have perimeter roads and there is
accessory buildings. There is like main road ard then at sqne point thiscould become vacated out of here is wtnt I'm saying so this would be likemakirg a right turn into a [Erkirg tot. Maybe Mr. Burdick would have a txnlsstore sitting here or something and people woul-d come here ard rather then
appear Iike they were comirg into a st.reet, they would be comirg into agrocery store or something and tiere courd be an integrated and shared parkinglot here so I think, if I can str=ak for Mr. Burdick, I think what he is- tryirgto accompr ish here is just some insurance that there is some ac.,cess arxi i.n thefuture as the properties develop we can sit down ard maybe in tte future wewiII decide we don't need this. Maybe Mr. Burdick and I wiII sit down and saywouldnrt it be better if both of just vacated this out ard we eadt got 75 feea
back ard maldce this becomes a right-in to a joint parking lot that we develop
betvreen whatever building I put here ard hrhatever buildirq he might put thereso Irm sure that this is going to be subject to change in here but right rnwit seems to be a solution that allows Lls to proce€d. It seems to be asolution tlrat gives l4r. Brrdick the access. rt gives the county and the stateard everybody what they want ard still gives us the maximum flexibility tolook at ttris again in the future and say should $re close this, should we
vacate it, should this be a right-in for f'tr. Burdick?
Mayor Hamilton: Mr. B:rd ick did you have any comments you would like to makein adition to what was refererrced?E
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City Courcil f,leeting - Noven cer I7 , L986
B.C. Burdick: I like this plan for me. Perhaps it's not as good if you left
West 78th Street the way it is for me but I could live with it and go along.
This came about fron the best meetirg I have ever been at. Bill Ergelhardt
$ras ttrere, Jo Ann Olsen, Roger G.rstafson, the Carver County Chief Engineer and
Evan Green of MnDct. Everyone respected eadr others ideas ard this is what
they came 14> with, MnDot ard Carver County as well as myself and the Jamesproperty. This is fine witi me.
Councilman Horn: Is there going to be a median out there? what is to prevent
sonebody frcn makirg a left turn out there except a sigrn?
Bill Eqelhardt: there will have to be concrete medians. ltris is a very
simplistic sketch shovrirg ttp direction of flow but when it is all dore itwill tnve to be a pretty sophisticated intersection.
Councilwoman Swenson: When we sw itctr to a MSAlt, do we have to make an
exchange for that?
Barbara Dacy: We are playing dominoes too. I{e are evaluating the upcoming
projects ard how mudr wiII be entailed for eadr proj ect in the MSA system.
Iake Drive East was removed because of tle tax base of the Business Park and
the next proj ect was Bluff Creek Drive so the @unciI annually approves the
Municipal State Aid schedule and orders improvenents and so on.
Councilwoman S$renson: The reason I ask is because BilI wrote to Eden Prairie
and to MnDot regarding tlle fact that the road that goes arounC Riley, Llman
D{tension, Eden Prairie is workirg r^Iith MnDot to get that road sw itched over
to MsA and r had worked with BiLI in going to the county because we are
getting a lot of County traffic through there with the advent of T11 2L2
coming in so I knor^, that he contacted MnDot or wrote a letter to them
regardirry that. Ttris is sqnethirg that is goirg to have to be addressed
pretty soon because we have a major problem ttrere with all the traffic tlnt is
comirg through or arourd to the IErk across tle way. witi the potential
increase of housing on the Eide property and along in there, we have a major
problem ard I want to make sure Ehat we're not goirg to scarifice other areas
that tave already been spoken for. I think this is something ttrat is going Eo
have to be looked into.
Mayor Hamilton: Like BilI says it is a very preliminary sketch. I agree with
you completely about how th3t whole intersecEion works out with pedestrians
especi.ally getting to the park but we have tr.ro issues at hard. that is the
subdivision rezoning of 43 acres from R-lA ard he is also requestirg the
subdivision of 5A.4 acres into five commercial lots. Are there any questions
about those issues?
C-ourlci Iman Geving: I'm really noE too crazy about maintaining West 78th
Street. I think that was a major concession of Mr. Burd ick in that
developnent. Fersonally I rrould liked to have seen it. closed off ard cul-de-
saced because I think that makes a lot more sense then what is beirg proposed.
I do believe however that we need to prrsue the idea of maintaining that Park
ard Rec recommeodation to glrsue the roadway to ttE north alignirg tle
hiking/biking path, wtratever it cones out to be, on tJte north al ignment ard
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then rooking west across tte highway, cR 17, in the manner in which it wirrarign itself to r,ake Ann park. I stirr don't see ho$, that is going to be doneor where it is goirg to ccme out but we want it on ttE north side 6f tte r=tproposed alignment a*:l if need be, I would even go so far as to say that weshould rook ahead to a warkover tlEE facility across cR 17 if that shouLdhappen or if t}'e reed exists for that. Ttrat rnight be a good spot. hle see anumber of those as we go east through EEina, r trrinx tleie are half a dozenard something rike that might just fit that particurar alignment so r erould
iikg ts see txl [r:rsue that ard follow through on iL Secoidly, on the CountyRoad designation moved into a Municipar staie Aid Road systeml'ao we receivefurds to build that road as a result of makirg that maneuver?
l'laltor Hanilton: Yes.
@urci lman Geving: ltow much of the road would be paid for by tJle Cit]P
Don Ashvrorth: It vrould be anticipated that tl= cost would be paid out ofthe State Aid Eurds.
courcirman Geving: d<ay. Then would we have to redesignate that portion oft+ coynty state Aid rergth sonewhere else in the community? would rre rosethat piece of highway? It should be close to half a mile or so.
Biu Ergelhardt! r can answer that. Right nov, or within tte near future therear ignment $rould carry both designations, state Aid and county sEate Aid ardthe reason for that is the county does not $rant to lose ore sifole tenth of amiLe on their systen and when they get another segrment of roaa iithinchanhassen that could be classified as state Aid, then they would switch ardtransfer that crassification from west 78th street Eo tha. section to maintaintheir mileage.
@urrcirman Geving: so the mileage in ourd be maintained and the road wourd bepaid for out of State Aid Eurrls not out of any City furds is that correct?
Don Ash$rorth: that is c$rrect.
City Council Meeting - tdovsnber 17, 1986
Counci Iman Ceving:
project.I have no other comments and not, I,m in favor of the
Counci Iwoman Watson: tlhen we were talking about the bike path and with thisintersection ard everythirg developing into this, I think there sbould bea real big consideration to figure out hor., we are going to get the kids from
do$rntown because the kids are used to goirg there. They have Center street.lttis map just Eickres me because tl:e virlage of chanhassen and center sEreet,it rnust be as o1d as the hills. If you come out of Center Street here better
knoern as Coulter Drive, ard you r.rere to come behind Lt 3, which I assume thatsingle fa-'n ity home th3t is on that arxl I realize that that Lot 4, whereverthat building is going to be, could swing down a vrays there and come closer to78th Street ard then beg in up the north side. If you c.rme through that $ray youcould avoid having them come down to the main street. If there is some waythat they can come in ard run alorg behird there ard then ccrne L{, here ard
make because then tley could c',ome up Crulter Drive for one thing- which I Ehink
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is what a lot of them do when ttEy come out of town. They cone down through
the City ltall parking lot here ard if they could come along there, it could be
very distinctly separate.
City Counci 1 !,leeting - I'Iovqnl:er 17, 1986
7
A building perm it for tot 2, Block I shall not be issued until the
realigrment of l\bst 78th Street is completed.
f,ot 3, Block 1 shall share an access with Lot 4, Block 1, from Kerber
Boulevard and West 78th Street ard f.t 1, Block 2 shall have only one
access frcrn the existing iiiest 78th Street ard the new aligrment.
AII drivew;ays must be at least 290 f@t fron an intersection.
Llc buildirg perm it vrill be issued until municipal services are
available to ttte property.
Mayor llami lton: I think that rEeds to be a part of the next step when the
Planning Commission needs to review the Park ard Rec @mmission Minutes as we
do ard I think your point is welt taken. I think all of us are concerned
about hovr that will happen.
Courci lwoman watson: I think that alignment would be a good one since it does
almost approximate Coul ter Drive behird that area. I don,t have any problem
with the street the way it is done here. I think it is a little odd. It'sjust unusual.
CourEi Iman Geving moved, l.tayor ilamilton secorded to approve the Rezoning
Reguest *85-2 to rezone 50.4 acres into 24.7 acxes of C-3, Service @mnercial
ard 25.7 acres of R-4, High Density as depicted in the legal description
requested in Attactrment #6 of the Staff Report on the northwest corner of Vlest
78th Stleet and Kerber BIvd.. Al.so, to approve Subdivision Request *86-II for
the subdivision of 50.4 acres of property into five commercial lots ard one
high density parcel with the following conditions:
The City proceed with the reclassi f ication of CSAH 15 to MSAH 15.
E<isting West 78th Street will become a right-in/right-out after
ccrnpletion of the realigrment of West 78th Street.
Upon execution of the develognent contract, $e realignment of West
78th Street shall be platted as a right-of{.,ay.
Any access from CR 17 receive a permit fron the County.
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A11 voted in favor except Counc i l woman Swenson who abstained and motion
carried.
Counci lwoman Swenson abstained because she lranted to know what is going to
happen tlE t''tSA for tlE street.
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City Courci t I'Eeting - August 17 , L}BT
Jo Ann Orsens rhe site is west Tgth street. the approximate rocation is onthe corner of west 78th street ard powers B1vd.. the appl icani i" -i.er."tr'g
a partial vacation of west zgth street so that he can start clnstruqEion onthe site pran that rras a[proved just recentry by the city oouncir. -p.iiiur
vacation would allow for. parking ard fandscapin; to be piovided. rt wiifstill maintain ttE existirg righl-of-way for'the existirq street ttrere- so trratr'rould stirl be urder t},e cln_trol of thJ city. we tabled actio" on euqu"t rrauntil -the carver county Board couLd revoke ihe control of vtest Tgth slreet arn
lfr aia do tiat this past ruesday so now tle ciEy can act on the vacation.AIso, MnDot who control,s tte right-of-way in this corner has sent tbeapplicant a letter stating that they do not have any objection to returningthe control of that right-of-way over to the applicint. -
Ar though ii-is a rongprocess, it courd take up to a year, buE they have initiated thit and they
_b,:ave alsg let the aFplicant knov/ that he can construct his parkirg area intothat right-of-way prior to the officially turning it back over. 6tutt i"recommerd irg approval of the partial vacation with the corditions thrat theutilities be preserved by an easement and ihat -.he remaining right_of_way ofWest 78th Street, where tle street exists, sha]l not be vacated until therealigrunent of West 78th Street to the north is accomplished. We arereccrmerd irg approval of tte partial vacation. -
B.C. Burdick: I most certainly have comments on this gentlemen because i.tdirectly affects me. vacatirg that portion of the entirity of west Tgthstreet is. perhaps okay. r keep an otrEn mind on that but tiis is r^rhat i oolectto.. I object to the parEial vacating. This piece meal approach. That neverworks as well whether itrs on this or something else. thjt,s number one,ttumber thro, that directr.y affects me, cuttirg otf that piece up ttrere if anangle reduces the visibility of my property from the noith =o
-there, t believethere is.damages estabrished.. r arso queslion procedure. r talked brieflynicely with Jo Ann this morning ard sh6 srared -thar iE had beJ a;ir i"i,ua urtr questioned whether it was posted as is required. Jo Ann did not bel ieve ithad been posted and it is a requirement thaC vacating must be po.t.o ina ti,ishas not been done so the procedure vras not forlowed. Arso, rrie got questionsabout the pubrication too. was there a petition? rhat,s another -p.o"'Ju."
that vras not foIlor"red. There $ras not a petition ard it,s also myurderstanding tllat a lEtition needs a majority of the property owners. werr,there.are tr.ro persons. or= trErson can not be-a majoriiy Le".tse ii;s;i "majoriby. r believe tiatrs it. r'rr keep an otrEn *ina ut this date in timeif this was all planned anl at ttre time they sGrt on the rew street ard doingit properJ,y.
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specia] meeting to discuss it further and get recorunendations as quickly aspossible.
PARTIAL \ACATION OE' WEST 78TH STREET.
Rrblic Present:
B.C. &:rdick
Charlie James
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City Courrcil }4eeting - August L7, L9g7
!,layor tlamilton: we're not goirg to start the new street until this ore isvacated so if we vrant to hold off I guess qE can do that.
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Charlie James: I'm Charlie Jame6 frorn the T.E. James Company arrl I hadbrought along some exhibits t-t,.t r have corored up that miy iake this wholethirry a little more understandable. rirst, brieily I would like to give alittle background into what has happened out there }s far as the surv6ying andwhere the original road right-of-way vras out there. When we p:rchased theprolErty we had a bourdary survey done ard the area that is shown in yelroe,here ard in pink is the right-of-way, the edge of this pink line wout-d le thecenter line of the right-of-way as it was oiiginal.ry r&orded and described.You can see that that does not relate to the section line where it was
ilterd{ and t}," yerrow rine shows an encroachment onto my property of wherethe road right-of-way was described ard subsequentry when-wi uiuqnt theproperty there. vras quit craim deeds that were exchanged and repoited to theg*ty: The right-of-vray has now been restored or culrentry eiists as a rinedescribed approximately 75 feet north of t}re section rine. 'sometime prior tothis, because of the description for where the road should be turning in anorthwesterry direction and when it was intended to be on the sectio"n line,because of that, originarry this was 150 foot right-of-way that was inLnaeato be 75 feet on either side of the section line down heie and because therod was built, or the description was given in a northwesterly trerd ardbased on an inaccurate :ur-vey, at some point tten the paths, Ui.y ,".rt itongon Mr. Burdick's side of_the road ard they reduced tbe right-of-iay on his -
side from 75 feet to 40 but .they left the right_of_ruy ori our side'as being 75feet.so he's already been guit claimed back 3i feet of rard on his side of thesection line- !'rhat we are asking for now here, then when the road was buirt,
-I- fg.g9t. one other point here, when the road was built, the .ai, tfe uctr.fwest 78Lh Street as traveled Lrere, the mat was placed in somewhat of asouthwesterly. trerd so you have the road ".s.*eiE as being described on anorthwest basis askew from t},e section line and then the ioad was built asker"/
3r a soSthwgsterly basis anl that resulted, as we r-eave the section cornernere, the bracktop mat is pretty much in the center over the section rine. Aswe approach the section rine which forms the center rine of powers Br-vd. themat is. placed so it approximately, it,s 44 feet wide at that point a;apProximatery 15 feet of it is north of the section line arrl ihe baLance of itrs south of the section rine. oo this exhibit here, the ye110w indica!"" tn"right-of-way that wourd exist after tnis partiai vacation that we arerequesting. r'!m sorry, the yertow shows ihe ma! tiat wirl exist after wevacate, if our vacation is requested here. The pink "h."; til-;;;i;in;riqr-tt. of-yay so you can see that even after our'vacation request r*i.-ti.."
.w1ff. Ue righE-of-way left on both sides oi-tfre -Uf
acf rcp "uoi ti,ouqh it" -
blacktop is somewhaE askew of the section line- Ihen blowing this up in alittre better detair here. . This orarge ri.. r'r"r. represents the right-of-wayas itrs described and finalized in tlJ quit "i.i. do"rr"nEs that wereexcharqed between the County. arrJ myself so this is the right_oi_wuy, ,t.re itshould be, as it is today, -the oraige line. ---rh..g.."n liie down 6;"; th"border between the green, ord the yellow, Ehis line here, represents thatportion thar we would like vacat&. ari oi-*,it 1.nd-;ill 'G-*J-roi-qr""n
spae ard for parking. There wir.r be r,o buitdirg on that u.".. tt= y"iro,here then represenrs the remaini.ng right-of-way lh.t will ue reri in ii-i, u...here ard the orarge rirn through here represenis a center rire of the biacktop
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City Courci 1 l4eeting - August L7 , L9g7
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so I brought these exhibits this evenirg so that number one, I could
demonstrate that even after this vacation there will be ample shoulder orgree{r slEce on the road ard that on Mr. Burdick's side of the road 35 feeE hasalready been vacated back a long time ago and I don't think any property
owners came in at that time ard complained that that was goirg to obstruct any
use of the north. this vacation, at this point in time, is oceurring entirely
wi thon our property ard this vacation is contemplated because of the fact thalI'm willing to donate ard have agreed to do so in writing, the entire g0 footstrip of Iard for tle rew West 78th Street so I'm wiJ-lirg to give rp g0 feet,I rrould like to get this approximately 45 feet back. I guess that's the erdof my c.o ments.
B.C. B:rdick: I have spoken with BiIl Ergelhardt about tllis and r.rhat that
does to me ard his directions ard angles here go just the oFposite of $rhat
Charlie James has presented here. ltris is BiII hgelhardt. Ihis just isn'tcorrect at all. I just wish he was here tonight but I didn't kno$, it wouldget into this.
Councilman ceving moved, Courcilman Horn secorded to close publ ic hearing.AII voted in favor ard motion carried.
Courci lman Johnson: I don't really think I iEve anything other than, I
renember that in the subdivision ordinances when I vras researchirg this for adifferent projecE, coming r4) ard complaining to the City C-ourril at that time
about not posting the subdivision charge. There is a Iittle paragraph right
next to that that says this will not be grourds for dismissing the procedure
in my memory as of about a year ago. I bel ieve that if we look at our
subdivision ordinance we'll find that posting is in the ordinance and shouLd
be done but is not grourds to dismiss a sr:bdivision procdure. Vacation
procedures rnay be slightly different.
Counci Iman Ceving: If all of tlle comments, your corunents relate to what Roger
may come up with in terms of procedure, then I don't have any questions but
the comment that l4r. Brrdick brought up is a very important one ard that is,is there a ned for a petition by both property owners in an area ard we need
to have tlnt resolved. If in fact one protrErty owner can make tEtition to Ehe
CounciL representing 50? of the property owners in that particular area, I
donrt know.
Courr i lman Johnson:
property.
His [Etition was to vacaEe Llalf the street that's on his
Courpi Iman Ceving: Bllt it also affects the other properEies in the area.
Thatrs tte procedural question. Then of c-ourse the requLrements that were
brought out in terms of staff. Your response Barbara wiII probably be what
Roger cmes up with in terms of $le posEing.
Barbara Dacy: I'II wait until the City Attorney.
Councilman Gevirg: I just donrt really have a lot of questions because we've
been at tiis project for a long time. werve got to start a part of tltisproject before the other pieces can fall in line ard sometimes it,s necessary
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City Counci I lreeting - August 17,1987
it
to do a piece meal approach.
Mayor Hamilton: tuger is back and may have an answer to our questions.Roger, can you respord to the questior. that Mr. B.rrdick rais& about thePosting and the petition and ttre partial vacation of the street?
Roger l(nutsons partial vacatisl is fine, legally. A [Etition is notrequired. Ihe City can do it on j.t,s om mofio.r.
l'layor tramilton: There was a lEtition hoerever. r bel ieve Mr. James hastEtitioned, is that correct?
Charl ie James: ltere was a letter. I sras just looking for a coFy of Orat arrtthere has been a constluctive petition in tie sense that ererve been unlerdiscr:ssion since october- t have a letter going back to october, igao rh"nthis whote thirg was before the Carver counfu Highuay ;p.il;;i: -"-
Roger l(nutson: Ihe only significarce of a petition, tlere is no petitionregrired. rt requ i res a four-fifths vote oi tnis uoay to vacale. '-ii -in"r. i"a [Etition by majority, and that means something more than half, then that isreduced to a sinple majority.
Mayor lhnilton: Vtlat about the posting?
Roger l(rrutson: It 's required.
lGyor ttamilton: It is required. Can you teII us anything?
Roqer ltrutson: The SEatute is silent on that. tlhatever is the custompractice of ttre Ciry. I:I,.:1i-*:.ed in Ciiy rhll, on your bullenrin board,at the Fost office, at prominenr praces in *i" city. itli;= u.JJ.,,rp*'v"r.Statues which unfortunately are about five l."a= ""t of date. My recollectionis that several places, arrl I don,t t"* ti,"'* io"morized, *r.r"i piiJ* ,n"..these requirements existed, the- legisratri" n". gone through and eriminatedthem so what I would suggest, if y6u desire lo1u"ut", you can vacate itsubject to my checking lo -=ee wheiher tiruJ po=ti"g one, in fact has takenplace. Maybe itrs taken place, I don,t knowl in ir"t iufXi.q t"-Ooril"Oondoesn,t know if itrs been posted. rf it,s been poltea, thereis ." liouL. o.if that provision has been eliminated from ttre statu.es you have no probrem.So. if you lrant to approve it then yo, ""n ao it suliect to "t*f1ng &,oL trothings out.
Courcilman Geving: Ihe posting is required?
Roger l(nutson: If postinq is. reguired anC postirg did not take place, then wewill just go through the posting.'
Counci Iman C€ving: Ard for $rhat period of time is that?
Roger ltluEson: r berieve iE'!s r0 days. It wirl postpone this about 2 !,reeks.
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Councilman Horn: It appears to me tiat we would have a difficulty in setting
a partial vacatioo unless we knov, tlE exact plot lines of the highway ard that
alpears to be a question also. I think we need staff to clarify t}lat for us.
Where the lines are in this thirg otherwise I donrt know how we can get a
reasonable description for a [Ertial dedication.
Cnry warren: We obviously haveo't looked at it. At this point, surveys are
done by a registered land surveyor. BilJ, Ergelhardt has not expressed any
comments to me. I don't know if he has to Plannirg about the fact that ttle
vacation was rlot c-onsistent with what has been shown on the James plat. those
plats have been arourd. I€ can certainly Iook into it.
Barbara Dacy: the display boards that Mr. James has presented tonight are
consistent with tte sutxnittals that werve worked on for ttE [Est year. Again,
Mr. Engelhardt bas not alerted as to any discrepency. As a matter of fact, we
specifically directed Mr. James to have his erg ineer prelEre these tlPes of
submittals so they can clarify this issue. I think staff is confident that we
know what the City is vacating.
Grarlie James: one thing that Jim said about not being accurate, part of the
information that vras used in locating things out there was Mr- Burdick's
survey that was done for the Burdick Park 2nd Addition by SchoeII and Madsen
ard that's on there ard ttEy located they shoulders of the road ard tlp
section line and they determined t}Ie mat as being 44 feet wide and thatrs
where, when we did our survey, we tied into some of that information ard cross
checked it and then tlanson-Pellom did my survey. As far as not having a
description, the description is simple. The description would be the north
45 feet of the south 75 feet of the \resE 467.2q.
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Councilman Boyt: I think Rcger has cleard it up in terms of sayirg tbat we
can vote o., tii= subj ect to -the condition he mentioned. We've been working
on this for a year. I'm a little surprisd to see so much contention at the
Iast moment about this ani I feel like it's time to take action.
Resolution #87-87: Councilman Johnson moved, Ccunci lman Geving seconded to
r98 7approve the lErtial vacatlon a
with tle followirg corditions:
s shown on the si.te plan daEed Auqust 13,
1. Any existing utilities within the r'Jests 78th street right-of-way
proposed to be vacated shall be preserved by easg[ents.
2. the remaining righE-of-way of i'lest 78th Street shall not be vacated
until the realigrment of West 78tI Sbreet to ttle north is completed.
3- 'Ihe City Attorney review the current lar', pertainng to posting
criteria.
AII voEed in favor arrl rnotion carrid.
Qtrr[i.: J.rmes: IE I could just add one r.rord. lhere was a tEtition that wassent ro (:-rry !.rarrcn on Eebruary 17, I9g7.
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City c.ounciJ, l4eeting - August 17, L987
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City Courcil lGeting - August L7, :JlgBT
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Mayor 'amirton: Frhaps ]n,u cpuld also make Gary your boards avairabre forwhatever researdt qE rnay need to do. Is thal fulsibtea
cbarlie James: srre. r'll just reave these here. rr11 leave ttranr right now.
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STREEf, \TACATION REQUEST FOR \ALHALIA AVENUE.
C
i'lol-Mayor Hamirton: this item has been before us mo-re than once previousry. rtrsbeen recommended that the property be vacated ard returned to -the orooe.rtyowners. staff continues to make that recomrnendation. p"ir-u"a- nJ-iii'n"tmake recommendation of this item when they r"., iewea it just .*.rtiy "rA itseqns to me to be a very straight forward issue. /lny coxments?
Councilman Gevirg: I think the only discussion itern for the people who arepresent.here tonight is the conrneni from tlre city attorney. i- "-o-o-ra'r]x. tohave written into the record you! ao.aant" nogaa. could you restate thosebriefLy.
Roger Knutson: yes, r was asked to take a 100k at this issue and determine ifthis platted street c.urd be one, u"J i"i -n-oi-.a.."t grrposes. A beachrot orswimming or docks or anything "th* A"r; "li""t una the answer to that isno. Lard r{as dedicated in a plat dated 1916 as a street ard our Suprene @urthas said thar when **_]_"_9&i:.G-; ;;ry for a specific [xrrpose we canonly use it for that prrpose ard none other. 'r was a.r.so asked if the citycouLd somehow seII the proprEy to som@ne, anyone, arxl tJre answer is no. AIIy-" F"9 is again the right to use it .. . '"i.6"t. we have ar easement on it.we don,t have the fee tit1e. we can,t -use i-t-}lr anything else. We havenothirg to serl- !',e can either r""ue ril-it is or vacate it or use it as astreet .
3:":i3"" Horn:. I just IEd one question about reviewing tie Minutes. Iherewas a question about the fact that- there ,"a" tna* property owners ard wespeculated at that time that it wourd go t" 1r,-.-on" tiat wourd ohrn theadjacent rot. Nov, as r sakr the prot, t6ere *".L tn.* peopre who owned theadjacent lot. r think the specuiatio" ,i= tl,"-i it wourd go to the nearest oneto that even though the lot was not sufaiviJJ.
Barbara_Dacy:. Right. what r represented at the Last meeting is that treowner of portion of Lot 58 immedlatery aburtirg tte proposJ-rru".G -.[na-or-
way nould receive that lard.
Courci Iman *orn: EVen though tlpre rrrere three o$rners on that total Lot.
Barbara Dacy: Riqht- There are three meets ard -bourrls descriptions existingon t t 58 that have been existing ro.. n*Jei'of years. !----- -..-r
councirmdn BoyE: I wourd -r-ike to Ehank Ehe neighbors for putEirq in an etforEEo try to see if thev courdn'!t -."i^"tir"ry-u3" tt" property but r Ehink thelegal issues is prerfu ctear. hE j;a-;;;['r,"'J" u,.t oprion.
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PLA!{ €RS / ENGITEERS / SlrSvEtoRs
PRELIMINABY PLAT
WEST ILLAGE tiTIGHTS
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I,AND DEVELOPjIIENT APPLICATION
CITY OP CEANEASSEI|
690 coulter Drive
ChaDhassen, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
APPLICANT:
ADDRES S
T.F.YafiE5 Co .
6610 STADY OAK ED
tu^t pnfr@E fi3tftlzip code
4,? a-dnffi
OI,INER :
AD DRES S
zip Code
TELE PHONEvFTTVe-
PRoJEcr NAuE W EST VI uA&e u a &t(
Subdi vi sion
X Prattino AiiA{DiAA{f\ Metes and Bounds
Jlet,znasement vacation
wetlands Permit
15
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Anendment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use Permit
Site PIan Review
Planned Unit Development
Sketch PlanPreliminary PlanFinal Plan
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQT'ESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT ZONING
REQTJESTED ZONING
USES PROPOSED
SIZE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION
NED
ld r.;;:;'
TELEPHONE (Daytime )
REoUEST !
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CITY OF
EHINHASSEN
P.C. DATE: 2/17/88
C.C. DATE: 3/L4/88
CASE NO: 88-1
Prepared by: Olsen/k
STAFF R=PORT
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PROPOSALs Site plan review of a 7,277 sguare foot church
LOCATION: Lot I, Block 7, Hidden Valley (251 Lake Drive East)
APPLICANT:Family of Christ Lutheran Church
P. O. Box 388
Chanhassen, MN 55 317
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
PUD- R
3.25 acres
z-/ t 1[ i
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:N - Higheray 5
S - PUD-R; Hidden Valley
E - RSF; Chan Estates
W - BN; vacanE
2//2,/i'?
WATER AND SEWER:Available to property
PEYSICAL CIIARAC.:The site has a
s outh
gradual slope towards tshe
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Residential High Dens ity
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SrOO
- 8200
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Section 5-9-7 of the Zoning Ordinance requires the iollowingditions for a church in the residentiar district (Attachmeni
A. The site shal1 be located on a collector arterial roadwayidentified in the comprehensive plan or loca ied-;"- i;;i-access can be provided without conducting traffic tniougtres ialent iaI concentration.
Family of Christ Lutheran ChurchFebruary 17, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
The structure must be set
I ines .
Parking area shall be set backnon-res idenc ial. property and 3Oproperty.
back 50 feeE. from aII property
con-
#1) :
AS
25 feet from the streets andfeet from residential
No more than 70t of the site is tsurface and tshe remaind.er is to bconformance with Article VIII.
o be covered with imperviouse suitably landscapei in----
Building Inspector
Fire Inspector
City Engr.oeer
BACKGROUND
At Eachment
Attachmen t.
Attachmen t
#2
f3
*4
On May 20, 1985, the,City Council approved the Hidden Va1leyEstates PUD with outror B designateh'." . future .ir"ictr-"it6(Attachment #5). As parr of t6e eUO ipproval, the p.op".iy-*."rezoned from R-rA to p-1 which was rhe'iesidenri;i ;G-JiJi.rict.To permit the church to be rocated on outlot a ritt in-ttu-p-rdistrict,.the. zoning ordinance was amenJed to permit a-ctruicir inthe P-I district as a conditional use. The Cii.y C""".ii "pp."""athe zoning ord i nance
. amendmen t on September 9, l9g5 (Attachment#6)-_ The Zoning ordinance permitted churches-as a condiiionatuse in the p-I District subject ro uhe following ;";;iai;;;;'
1. The church site must be served by a collector or majorarterial, streec.
2 The church site mustarea.be within the metropolitan urban service
B.
c.
D.
Section 7-1-10-5 requires.one parking space for each three seatsbased on the design capacity "i tt" -iaii seating area plus oneparking space per classroom-for churches. The iaximum'tr.ight ota structure in a residential district is 40 feet-
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Family of
F ebruary
Page 3
Christ tutheran Church17, 1988
In February of 1987, the City adopted a ne\", zoning ordinance
and zoning rnap and the P-I district was changed to PUD-R. The
PUD-R district does not regulate churches as permitted or con-
ditional uses. Since Outlot B hras approved as a future church
site, staff is reviewing the proposal as a site plan for a per-
mitted use. The current zoning ordinance permits churches in the
residential district as a conditional use permit and has specific
requirements. Staff is using the conditional use permit reguire-
ments as guidelines for sile plan approval since the site is in a
predominantly residential area.
ANALYS I S
The applicant is proposing to develop a church on proPerEy zoned
PUD-R-;ith appro*imatefy :.ZS acres. The property is.located
just lyest of-Lhe Chanhalsen Estates subdivision and hrithin the
fiiaa.n Valley PUD, just south of Highway 5. The property is ser-
viced by l,akl prive-east (collector) and Hidden court' the
zoning 6rdinance requires the structure to be set back 50 feet
ir"* iff property lines anil the parkinq area is to be 25 feet
from strelts and 30 feet from residential property. Tle zoniag
"iain.n." aiso requires that no more than 70t of the site shall
be covered with iripervious surface and the maximum height of a
building in a residential area is 40 feet'
The applicant is proposing a 7 1277 sqware foot church for the
first'phase and two iaaitionat phases which woul'f include a
classr-oom aiidition and a sanctuary addiEion for a tot-al square
iooiig.-"t approximately 20,000 square feet' The percent of
iil;;;i";" iiir"". incliding all ine phases and parkins area is
54-t which is below the requireri 70t maximum impervious surface.
The seating for the firsE phase of the church will be 250' there-
fore, 84 pirkirg spaces woul-d be required in the firsE phase'
the ieconi ana ifriia phase will require an additional 66 parking
spaces. The applicanl is provirling 96 parking,pllges in.the
first phase "na-60 in the future for a total of 156 parking spaces.
The Building Inspector has required a total of 4 handicapped
parking "p.iu" for all phases. There are 2 handicapped parking'ipu."" - p.Lrided for the first phase which meets the state building
rLquireirents. The additional 2 handicapped parking spaces will be
provided with future Phases -
The building and parking areas rneets the required setbacks 'piopo."a laidscaping scieens the first phase of the parking
Luiiaing and the reirainder of the site \^rill be left in its
"i.i". The proposed landscapiog meets the zoning Ordinance
requirements- exlept that 1 foot'of shrubs must be included
2 f'oot berm with the strip of spruce trees along Lake Drive
The remarnder of the open area developed as part of Phase 1
be covered wiEh sod or seeded.
The
and
natural
with t.he
East.
shalL
Family of Christ Lutheran Church
February 17, L988
Page 4
Streets
Bui ldinq He iqh t
Currently, there is a major intersection at the corner cf tlwy. 5
and Dakota Avenue where the McDonald's and Sinclair Station is
Iocated. The City of Chanhasseo is reviewing the possibility of
shifting this intersection to the west to provide a north-south
intersection for TH I0l-. The most current proposal for the inter-
section is shown on Attachment #7. The proposal is in the prelimi-
nary stage and the improvements to Ehe intersection and TH 101 will
not take place for some time in the future. The proposed intersec-
tion an.f iealignment of TH I01 will impact the proposed site by
requiring some additional right-of-way for Hidden court to inter-
".Jt *it6 Lake Drive East. ihe location of the intersection of
LaKe Drive East grith the realigned Hwy 10I requires the proposed
entrance to the church to be located approximately 50 feet to the
south as is proposed. It is also proposed by the euUlig Safety
Department t-hat- a secondary access !e provided from Hidden court
fo-r use as an emergency access should the primary access be
blocked. Attachment #8 shows the relocation of the primary access
south 5o feet, the additional right-of-way that wilI be required as
pirt of the Hwy. 101 improvement and a possible locat'ion for the
a<iditional access from Hidden Court.
The height of the rnain buiLding is 33 feet which is acceptable
under t6e maximum height requiiement of 40 feet' The church is
lioposinq a steeple alproximatety . 7 3 feet in height !'/hich. is 33
?u.L otr.i the malimum- heiqht requirement' The Zoning ordinance
does permit church steeples to be omilced from the maximum height
requiiement of the area if the required rear and side setbacks are
indreased 3 feet for each atlditional foot over the maximum height
(Attachment #9). As previously stated, staff is using the con-
aii:,""ii use permit rLquiremenls for a church in residential
ei;a;i;i" ai guiaelin.i fo. rhe sire plan review. Those guidelines
require a 50 ioot setback for rhe structure. In a residential
,Jistrict the setbacks for structures is 30 feet' ThereEore, staff
is recognizing Ehat an additional 20 foot setback has already been
provided. If the proposed church was at the 30 foo! setback the
church would have Lo 6e tocated back an addiEional 11 feeE or 41
feet from the rear and side lot line-s to permit Ehe 73 foot
steeple. Since the site for the applicant is currently proviJing a
50 fLot setback, staff feels that the intent of the ordinance is
being met and that the height of the steeple is acceptable'
Miscellaneous
The applicant is proposing a 20 square foots sign to be locaLed
just iouth of the primary entrance to the site. The applicant
iil-l t.ru to receive a sign permit and the maximum size of the
sign permitted is 24 square feet. Also, the Building Department
hai rLquired that the steeple must be of non-combustible construc-
tion or that it be a maximum of 20 feet in height. The Building
Department also requires a set of plans for preliminary reviewprior to the formaf building permii application. the iirernspector has recommended thal the hydiant located in front of theproposed future sanctuary be rerocated to the north corner of theprimary access as shown on Attachment *10. The rire-inspecior alsorecommended, as stated previousry, that a second access Le providedto ensure two accesses_ to the property. The remaining item! of thesite plan such as trash encrosire'and- lighting, ^".i it"-ieeui.."-ments of-the zoning ordinance and the ci[y rn!ineer's memoianaumrevier,rs drainage and utilities.
RECOUI,IENDATION
Family of Christ Lutheran ChurchFebruary 17, 1988
Page 5
Planning staff recommends thefollowing motion:
iThe Planning Commission recomrnendsshown on the site plan dated Januaryconditions:
Planning Commission adopt the
approval of Site plan #gg-1 as28, L988, with the following
I ?he applicant shallalong lhe east lotwest property 1i neEast.
All open areas
s eeded .
Tr.eo addi tionalthe second andbuilding codes.
The future phases shal Irequired for the TH 1C1
The proposed accessfeet to the south.
roviCe details on typene and provide 1 foottween vehicular access
of shrubs proposedof hedge along theand Lake Drive
p
1i
be
2
3
4
5
in the first phase shall be covered. r,rith sod or
handicapped parking spaces will bethlrq phases or as required by the
provided wi thstate
preserve Lhe additional
improvement.r ight-of-way
to Lake Drive East shal1 be relocat.ed d0
6
7
8
A second access to Hidden Courtby the City Engineer.
The steeple shall be constructeal ofshall not exceed 20 feet in height.
The hydrant located in front of therelocated to the south corner of theEast.
shall be proviCed and approved
non-combustible material or
proposed sanctuary shall beentrance from Lake Drive
The applicant shal1 receive a sign permit for the proposed signwhich shall not exceed 24 square-felE.
9
Farrily of Christ Lutheran Church
February 17, 1988
Page 6
Section 5-9-7 of the Zoning Ordinance.
Memo from Building Department dated February 2, 1988.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated February I, 1988.
Memo from City Engineer dated February 11, 1988.
City Council minutes dated May 20, 1985.
City Council minutes dateal September 9, 1985.
Current intersection proposetl for TH 101.
Location of primary and secondary access and right-of-way
required.
Section 6-10-2 of the Zoning Ordinance.
Hydrant locaEion.
Letter from Family of Christ Lutheran Church dated February 5,
1988.
Application.
Site plan dated January 28' 1988.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9.
10.lr.
12.
13.
ATTACHMENTS
c. Light sources shalI be shielded; and
H. No outside speaker systems.
Commercial Communication Transrnissioq TowerA
i5:i=*triilI;ti:.:;::::Iir#:ilHiii;F:;.rn.
6 Wholesale Nursery
The sitearterial
7. Churches
A
B
c
rnust.be on a collector street or ninoras identified in the comprehensive plan,.
Five acre rninirnurn 1ot size;
All storage and yard
l!=! b: =6i u"Jx'i'o5 ?IEi=ril,;liri:road_ right-of_luays and 5oO feet fromsr.ngle fanily r"3id"nc",.
The site nusr be ,""::.3_"]:ng a coLLector or minorarrerial as identified in the c"rprii,Ii=i"e plan;
A11_outdoor storage areas nustscreened by looz 5paque fencing be
or comp I etel y
berming;
Hours of operation sha1l, be from 7 orclock a6 o'clock p.n. , Mondon sundays-iiii'i,"'iilil-throush saturdav onryays not pernritted) ILigrht sources shalL be shielded; and
No outside speaker systens .
D
E
F
The structure mustproperty I ines ,.
back 25 feetproperty and
is
the
buildingsor private
an adj acent
m. to
(vrork
from
30 feet
to be
rena inder
G
H
A The site shal-I be IoarEerral' roadu/av .= :::-t3 on a coLLector orpfan or r;;;t;;'=;-..'1!nt'ri"6 in the comprehensive
::::*i.:;1i,,-IIii ;l::.i:.ff :";;il ::.i;,iti:t -' " =
B
c
be set back 50 feet fron all
l:Ilils areas shart be set
::I:"t. and nonresidentialrrom residential property;
D No nore than 70 Derc,covered,itil i;p5;i:X: :f.:::"":::
-46-
+t
Er
8. Private Stabl-es
Complj.ance lrith Horse Ordinance No.
is to be suitablyArticLe VIII.landscaped in conformance with
churches outside the MUSA li.ne mustfollowing for revierrr:
provide the
1) Location of t$ro (2) drainfield sites.
2) fwo (2) soil borings on each drainf iel-d sitefor a total of four (4) soil borings.
3) No percolation tests for drainfiel,d sites wherethe land slope is between zero and 12?.
4) One (L) percolation test per drainf iel-d sitewhere the land slope is between 132 and 252.
5)Areas $rhere the land slope exceeds 252 shallnot be considered as a potential soi.l treatmentsite.
6) The sewage treatment system must be in
conformance rrith Ordinance 10-B.
7) School and daycare uses accessory to the churchuse are not permitted unless approved by thecity council.
A
B Stables must be located
wetland area.
a mininum of
56; and
200 feet fron
9. State Licensed Day Care centers
A Site sha1I have loading and drop off points
designed to avoid interfering with traffic andpedestrian movements;
B
A
Outdoor pLay areas sha]-I
a manner which nitigates
on adjoining residential
and designed in
no j.se inpacts
be locatedvisual and
areas; and
Shal,1 obtain al]. appl icabl,e
l icenses .
state, county, and city
L0. Hospitals - HeaLth Care Facilities
Site shal1 have direct access to collector orarterial street, as defined in the Comprehensive
Plan i
-47 -
I
I
E
T
T
x
*
rE
n
T
Il
T
I
I
I
MEII{ORANDUM
TO: Planning Department
FROM: Building Department
DATE: February 2, 1988
SUBJ: Planning Case I8-1 Site Plan Review
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
s +l<
2
1
3
Four handicap parking spaces required. SBC 1340.0300 subp. 5
Spire must be non-combustible construction or a maximum of 20feet high if combustibl,e. UBC 507.
Building Department requires a set of plans for preliminaryr evi ew.
a7
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937- 1900
Jo Ann Olson, Asst. City planner
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
tftrSteve Madden, Fire Inspector
February 1, 198 8
251 Lake Drive, Church
Upon revierv of the siLe plan
second driveway be installed
per ty .
the chr:rcb, I recommend thaL ainsure two accesses to the oro-
of
to
A1so, I reconnenC the hydrant. placement as inarred on the p1an.
If you have any questions, please see me.
*g
(
eeti.ng, ttay l;t| LSaS
ounci lwOnan Srens on:
eorethinq on this-
If re are not being
I understand that Roger (nutson 1SI rasnrt agreeing rith those IB boat
speci fic, this in fine.
tI -21.-
c going to col[e upslips and the four
ii.th
docks.
councilnan Gevinq! The sketch pran doea not shor the four docka,80 I thi.nk thst reare o.k.
Mavor Hamilton! lly notion was to aPptove the sketch plEn sevie, fotP,R
to
not
.0. xith s beachlot. The docks
be had, but le generally a gree
Eake it final.
Nere di scussed sone and thete isrith your concept in your sketch
18
ll0re
toinhoneg,
di scussi on
That doeepl8n.
Councilwonan Strenson: I rant it on record that I have no neans of spprovi..|g thattrithout gi ving mor e discussion.
Fre d Plocher!At l{ha t next
apend a lot of ,!oney to get
that if re donrt k noN rihat
Barb Dacv: As sorrn
nake an appointDeot
stage does tha t h€ppen?the finsl plans and finalthe dock si t u8ti on is.
City Attorney 's office, ,e rill
HI DDEN VALLEY SUEDIVISION. SE CORNER OF H ND IOI. NEYI AMERICANPrelinina.y Plan Aoorova i Includin q Rezoninq to P-1. PlannedDevelopment.
l{etland Alterati.on Permit.
Land LJse Pl an Anendment fron Hiqh and Lolr Densi tv ResidentialRezonino f rorD R-Ia -Aqricultur al Resr dence to C-2-Comnercial District.
as re 9et the results
and set up the rhole
froE the
process.
IGHWAY 5 A HOMES:A.
B.
c.
D.
Resi.dentia I
I
9stb Dacy: The p!operty is nolr zoned R-la single faftily. To the east is ChanhassenEstates, rhich is zoned R-1. To the rest i,s n_Ia zoning aa rell and is nolr vacant.To the south is R-1, which is the Rice Marsh Lake Subdivision. Ihe presen! land usedesj.gnation on the property; the southern area of the gl acre site is designated aspert of an open space, the nid portion ia designated as lo|i dengity residential andthe upper porti.on, adjacent to Highw6y 5, is desiqnated as high density residentsl .The American Legion site is coonerical and in the inmediate vi,cinity of the intersec-tionr Chanhassen Estateg is degignated as lol{ density residential and is desi,gnatedaa coDmercial to the north of Chanhassen Estates along Highlray 5. The subject pro-perty ras zoned P-2. There have been three or four proposals tanging lrom over 600apart,oent units to the no3t recent one i.n the l6te 70rs to around 200 in combi,nationrith single fanily uses. It ,.as rezoned to R-la in r98.r. given that there ras rittreactivity on site. This proposal ra3 0riginally before the councir during the sketchplan !evier appfoximately ll oonths ago. It has since gone to the plannrng comEissi,Ontrice and it is nor beck llith four iteos to revier. you h6ve the prelifiinary deve_lopnent pl.an approvEl with rezoning, r,etland alte!€tion pernit sequest, tand use plsnenendment, and Eezoning in conjunction with that land use plan anendment. I rillbriefly suDmarize sone of the changeg that hove occured si.nce sketch plan revter.fhe southe.n 2l acreg of the property are unbuildable as it is desiqnsted as a cIagsA retlend' rhe Diddle erea i3 proposed 6s 109 single faoily detached Iots. originsl-ly, the developer proposed l,l2 single f6nily deteched lots. ttre ar.""g" Iot size hsgincreased fror r2,000 to 16,i9t square feet. The DNR hss s lro00 foot aree of ahore-line o66.n.runt qrea. Eecouse of the gubdivision, the DNR h8s a fornula fot tleringthc size of the lots ea you move siay frol! thc ietlsnd and the Rice ],larsh Lake ordi_n6ry hj.qh reter nark. The concept that you see here tonight haa beeo approved by thGDtlR in that they et€te thet the tr!ring thst ts being propoacd ia consrstcnt rith
Allxl>r-rt=-*ryt* 5
0ur problem is that we hEve torevier. It rrII be hard to do
to Comlllercial -
Iretr.ng, Mar 20, I9,{*p -22-
policies. The northern part of the eites , the spplicant is creating thsee
ot3.In the origin6l sketch plan, Lake Ori ve East lra9 further to the north 6dja_t to the Ane ri can Legj.on property.Thst road has been moved south and thus thepplicent has also app.tied for Eedesignation of4utlot A fro,r high density residential to codrnercial.0ut lot B is beino o!oDosed as, church site. The rezonin g sction that i.s before you toni.qht is ev erythin o south ofDrive East in c ud b in zoned to P-l Pendi ng yous deci -
,ation of the tio acre outlot. The I
tage in that it would cl uster the drivewsys into o
t-r is requeating re.oning to C-2. I !cntloned that
sion on the land usc applications for these tro o utlots to colllme.ical
thc average lot si ze hES i,ncreagsd
the applicant
to 14,700. The exsct middle of the 109 outlots a veraqes 11,700 square feet. Thirty_one lots are belor ).0,000 square feet;49 lots ar e betreen .I0,000 and I5,000 squarefeet and 20 lots are abov. 15,000 squarc feet. T he cuI-de-sac nidths of the lots ereat mininun of 40 feet, hotrever,the nsjority are 50 feet ride on the cul_de-secs.The non-cul-de-ssc Iots are a ma jority of 70 feet xide. Ihe lots adjacent teChanhasaen Estr-tes h 6rv. been rid ened to 90 feet, The EppIicsnt has proposed a fiveto six foot berm along the south side of Lake Drive East to screen the co,!tllercial andthe function of the collector stt eet froo the single fsDily area. BerDs arr al.aoproposed sdjacent to Chanh6ssen E etates. The developer is proposin g one trcr pcr lottrith a celipea size of at Ieaat,l to 4 inches. fhiB iould dictate a size tree of stleast l5 feet taII. 5taff al.so reco,!oended thst the size of th e berrlg on Chanh6aaenEstates thet Et lesst tro trees per lot would olso be planted. The applicant isaaki,ng fos s variation in setbscks than norrslly re quired. 0n non-cul -de-sac lotEthe applicant is requesting a 25 foot fsont setbsck 0n cul-de-s€c lots, I l0 footftont setbsck and a mini,!um building sepasatj,on of l,feet betl,een each gtructurc.Xith the variation of setbacks, nhst can be acheived i I the eli|[ination of ths t houseto houge cffcct and a creation of Eore open space betr een the livable areas of thehouse. NornaIly, the garage si,de nould br Ioc6ted in front of the driveray and,therefore, in the non-living areas of the house.Fifteen feet should sti,ll provideadequate building sepsration. The i.ntent of this sltering setback schene t,ould be tocleate the appearance of rnore open space betrveen a ny tro hon|es. It lrould also advEn_ne certain area. The applicant isalso propoging deed restrictions. The lots thst a but chanha ssen Estates, the deedrestrictions are the same for those Iots as lhey a re rn this subdivrsion. Ihe deedrestrictiona also establish an architectural contr ol connittee, }Jhich Hi. ll revie|i
- each houai.ng package for each lot as is developed.The deed restrj.ctions requisethat no tno of the sane color packaqe and house desi
ng CoDnission, at the April 24,.1,985 meeting, recoonended approval of the project sustaff teport in addltion to four additional condttl.oeech hone. 2) There be tro c6r garages on each hooeo.j,ntained thsoughout the phasing of the developoenr,
cent to each other or ac.oss the st.eet. Ihe plsnni
gn can be located directly adjs_
bject to the condrtions in thens. I ) basernents are requrre€l on,) th6t the averaqe lot stze be
and 4) that prope. con-
r as Far as the tr,o-car qarages and
ated to staff that he rill conply rith
ndicated that the lots ad;sggn1 ga
are6s and I split foyer design.
- giderstion be taken for park land dedication. Lould I ike to Eevier some issuesconcerning those reconlrendations. First of allthe basenents; in betneen the ti.me that the pla oning CoDoission has considered thisto the Council tooight, the applicant hss iodicthe requitenent for a tro-cer garage on each bu ilding site. He hos indicated th6t atleast ,7 percent of the proposed hones rill,beceuse of the slopinq conditions on
Chanhassen Estates rrill heve lon-grade li.ving Ihi stlould Dean that up to approxinately 50 percent of the hones rou ld have bagenents. Ithes been th e staffrs understsndinq thEt thege types of requirenents heve not been nadc
- 6s conditio na of app.oval on previous subdivisions, horever, should you feel that tro_car 9eraqes and baselnents are required for every lot snd if thot i.s to be rcco||acndedes the conmissi.on of approvel r speci.fic fi,ndinqs should be o6de for this porticul.rdevelopnent. The other condition that the CoOrigaion hed i6s the proposed phesing t
aite, rill contai.n a basenent. He has also i
./ncil Meeting, May 2l*Le 85
the cul-de-sacs?
plens. They uere concerned that a lot of the sDarl rots rourd be bui.rt first and thespplic€nt would coDe back and request additionsl small Iots. l{e reviered and calcu_lated the ave!age lot size of this area and that is approximetely r2,r22 squere feet.There is a dj.flerence of approximately 2,000 squsre feet from the overall average!The other issue that ras Eeconmended to be strongly considered rras the park andRecreation isaue. The Comnission, on l.lay 7,I9A:-, !ecoEnended that the City Councilrequest the developer to dedicate one acre of land, !rhich r{ould support a tenniscourt and a tot rot. rhe commission felt that l) Rice r.rarsh Lake park is not aare-quste in aize and the amount of improvements that csn be made are limi.ted due to ret-ness. 2) The existi.ng tot lot in Rice Marsh Lake park is too far froD the Hiddenvalley development. l) The accessibirity of Rice Marsh Lake park is not adequste forthe population in the area and rill requi.re ore lacilities to be aveilable. Thestreet deaign and patterns are follouing the lsy of the land. It is a very con-voluted si.te, in that there are a lot slope conditions. The staffrs reconmendation tothe Park and Recreation CoEmission lias that the feeg be accepted in lieU of psrk landao that the tennis court rot could try and be i proved on the site south of Lake
D rive East on the north 3i te of Chanhassen EstateE. l{e alao reeonoended tha t 25 feetof the utility easeoent be reserved for I trail easement and a possibj.lity for a totrot in the xestern part of the si.te. In sumnarizing this, you have a preriDinarydevelopment plan request for rezoning to p-l south of Lake Drive East; you have alretland alteration perrnit request beceuse the sediDentation basins in the southeastpart of the site are rithin 200 feet of a class A retland; you have a.Iand use planaoendment application frolll high denisty and loi density residential to comEercial andrezoning request for these tro outrots froD R-ra to c-2, The Ameri.can Legron site isnow zoned as c-2 as well. 0ur recoDmendations based on the applicantrs appricationis to approve the deyelopment pIsn rith the p-I zoning south of Lake Drive East;apploval of the reduced setbacks For reservation of the traj,l easement, a Eeaervationof nq g65gngnt in the south part of a I50 foot setback area; all the recoEEendationsmsde by the Cj.ty Engineer; the proposed pLanting plans as subnitted; filing of theproposed deed restrictions; compliance and satisfactory outcome oF the envj.ronmentalaBsessnent worksheet, Hhich has been donei and acceptance of park dedrcation fees inlieu of park land.
Councilwoman l{atson:
\iD
Batb Dacv: The Dajority
the non-cuI-de-sac lots
Estates are 90 feet.
Counci I man
replanning
some of the
ere I ess th
la rger and
existing Ch
Chanhssgen
Connisgion
-2t -
0n the residenti.al ptoperty, yihat are lhe oi.niouo lot frontages
r
t
of the
l,e re at
Gevinq: The last time you Here here tre sent you baek ho,ne to do yourand you did a very good job at takinq another shot at this. I think thotobjeetions th6t I h6d vlere the soall lot sizes. I sti.ll see ll lots thatan 10,000 square feet. I am very pleased to see the cul-de_sac sizes areyou are doing a fair job of separating the residential areas from the6nhassen Estates, even though those are quite large! Iots in size in theEsteteg area. Hy next point is the request froE the park and Recreationfor a one acre tot Iot size area. 0o you have any cooments on that?
Jerry Hartin: I nust
qive a donation.
have misunderstood, I thouqht that they t.ould rether have us
Councilmsn Gevinq: They ranted both. Ihey w6n ted a tot lot area, I unde.stand.
Batb Dacv: The pask end Recreation commission recomnended that a one acre site bereserved for a tot lot and o tennis court. It r6s staffra recoitnendsti,on to acceptthe patk dedieation fees and the reservation of a tr.il ?ase[lent
cul-de-sac lots measure 50 feet in width and most ofleast 70 feet in width, and those abuttinq Chanhassen
tII
I
Ieeting, Hay 20, 1!rb -24-
ilmsn Gevina:
are ne going
atb Dacy !
lf ne get
to invest
been suggested
treetnent plant
An idea hes
old s el,e ge
Gevino ! Do
Yes.
the
that
patk dedication fees
roney to build a tot
of roughly $400
lot?
per unit,
tennis court could be placed at thenotth side of Chanhassen Estateg.3ite of the
Earb Dacv:
Counci lrnan
Is it big
Bill Monk!Yes.
Councilman Cevino:
need for sooe place
of the development r
di smond doio the re a
to be a lot of chi.ld
hi ghxay . I think th
/ fle ate gorng lrith !h
7\Jerry Hartin:
conatituents
Counci I nan Gevinq: 0ver |lhat
phase I and phsse II?
Jerrv llartin ! We would hopethat phase I rould take us asprin g of nex t year.
Gevioo! Hoi big is
enough for I tot lot
own that property?
it?
and
Is the existing serc! area greaterpossibly a tennis court ?
and ACCeaA
Drive East
of altering
that a
on the rCouncil nan
7
th€ n one acte?
coulgi'lnsn Gevinor rould this be a public facility availebte to all of the rrsid!atsof the co[runity, or rould it be for just the residents froD juet this Erea?
Eilt Ionk! lle rould have to tske a look at it. The psrkingquegtion that re rould heve to resolve because tt is on LakeIerge enough to fit, but it rould take a si.gnifj,cant arountIhether a tennis court should even go thete is questionable.
rou.ld be a
and it ig
the site.
I an not so concerned about the tennis court as I so trith thefoa these children to play. The area dorn in the southern partas virtually the soall park. l{e carved out a p€rk and put e ballnd I suspect that j.f you build 109 units in trere, there is goinqren looking for 6 place to play. They cenrt go ac!osa theat should be addressed, at leost at the staff .level, to see |rheteat. Also, do you have a church io nind?
do. The Luthe.an Ch u rch he re inhere thi.s g.
tovn. Ihere i9 sone of the
period of time do yoU feel that you can eccomplish
to be in and out l{ithin
year frO,n the stat,t and
two years. So, ws |rould hopestartiog with phese II in the
Counc i Inan
Oid you do
that?
Barb Dacv I
109 lots is
Counci I oan Horn:
oot lncl uding the
Earb Dacv: Right.the net, mi.nus the
Horn: Barb, you said
that bssed on takl,ng
The I2,000 fj.gure wss
I4,700 square fee t.
aveEage lot size l,as a!ound
of the lots and dividing the
the
all 12,000
number
aquare feet.
of lots into
lhe ave!age lot size in the first ph9se. The rhole
Thst ie taking sll of the lots snd dividinq
9reen ares, it's not lr gross type of thinq.
by the number of lots,
the
pe I
gEo59
acre.
of just the oiddle acreage is 2.r,As a matter of fact,
streetg, is 2.9 units tare sone fsitly sm.ll
can.t ar 9ue |rt th thc
Counc t I p6n Hotn:
I xould Iike gee,
Thcre
bot I
lots in
overage
here, and they are srallcr th6n
lot alze,
unciI Meeti.nq, N"y *,;, lgAS
Councilliom6n Swenson:0n orive A
lots?those double frootage
Yes they
Srenson:
8e rb Dacv:
,o -25-
on the east side of lhe pcoperty, block l, are
a te .
Counci l',oman
Councilrom en
going
I can
tage lots in that some
Be rb Dacv:
lots. That
I beli,eve ie have some
berni.ng is required.
sort of a restriction on double f ron_
Right, and that is rhat theis intended for the fi.ve to
buFfer easeDent igsix foot bero.
on the north si,de of those
Counci lroman Swenson: Is there some lray re
Counci ltr oman Srens on i
going to
going to
Earb Dacv I yes
Counc i lromsn Sfl
can be assured thatthe fut ure pl8nned
ha ve peopl e coEe in
area.n
about it, butis 6bou t the
the
best
peopi.e purchaeing
for outlots A andsaying, "hey, r,e
proper ty slong
I ao essunj,ng that
options rith the tcrrain 6r!of the options th.t lre Ee
we hs ve sadiEen_
|..i. th this chsin of
psopetty along that block are going to knolrD, or are ie, et sone future date, going todonrt yant that here, this is a resj.dential
the
use
and
Berb Decv: Psrt of your action tonight, if you decide to designste outlots A and Das cooBe!cial and tezone that to C_2, normally a p!operty orne! lrould core into thccity Hall €nd ask ihat the a!ea i3 likc across the gtreet. lr! ,.ould s8y thst it i8commerical, C-2. If there a!e any uses in thst di.strict thet requirc s condi.tionaluae peEoit, e public hearing xould be conducted. you are going to be acting oneverything on that piece tonight, except ""ybe fo" the proposrd church.
that line
the lots
are
are
ire tiill make certain that people purch6singknor that is a poteotial coDDerical a8ea.exit ont o the interior gtreet.
I
I
;9'91"i'Ili"" sHenson! My nain concern is the sedimentation into Rice flarsh Lake.I find thig disturbing. l{e h6ve a contour tine of g77, rhich accordiog to nyfigures, puts that i.nto Rice Marsh Lake. I aon,t thi,nk re need any more drainageinto Rice Marsh Lake and into the creek. It.s |nissed in the environmental assessoentlrorksheet to the effect that this is going to require sone attention. I don't Iiketo see that donn that far. Is there €n alternative to this?
Bill onk, In Iookinq at the site and trying to cone up t,ith a drainage syste,t|, Ifirst.looked at the piping and then backeo uf lo that into some type of a inter_mediate ponding area. Ihe. lower sedimentation fonO, I think its configuration ,"illbe changed soitetrhat from shorln on the actual plln anO rrill be expanded in anesst/we8t direction before the plan is actuariy rinatr.zed. sedirrentation basins rillbc totally sboye the ordinary high lrster .""U,' ,, rill not actually go into rhat,i Il be considered the xetlend """" o" tt. i"t" "."..
Bill tlonk: It Nill bethat it be above that.
Counci lromen
Sill llonk
enson: An 877 elevat ione
no quest ion
you see it,
alI above that glgys!i6n. Ihat is a port oF the requireoent,
Srren6on: lt i.s definitely an alte.ation.
ve ry nj,ni0sl.
viered.
is,
The
is
as
there
Plan,
tation
lekcs.
Svengonr I jugt don't 6pptove of thi,s at all bccauseto Rice Harsh Lake and Nt.t senction conrributrns,:":;"::";.:;,:::: 0""0r","
I
-l
I
l
rirl
l
-J
_il
1
lt
It
,l-
I
]L
x_
I
ir
rL
i
L
I
I
I
'le e ting, May 20, D84.
0ne of the things thst !.
\(-26-
n occurring the re nolr . llhen yo
i9 ths t re have ex tre!|e sedinen-
ditch, soDe places it riLl be I
nould control that sedinentationt deep. I thiok r. have Iooked for a aystem that
ith the ponding ar!angement and the step dorn thatrs being proposed and captute as
,uch of it as you can before /ou actuelly qet dorn there,9o I beli.eve there ia some
question in my mind th6t it rilr mske the situation better. It rirl alter erosion,
b'rt it rill also sllor the subdiviEion to raxiEize and enhance the aesthetica of thesite rith a step dorn spptoach.
Counci lviomen Svenson :
nk:e ha ve looked at
u ral k doYn that
,ith the quality of the
Bill Honk: The erosion th6t
someday . Thi s repaes"nta, I
opt ions because there ia not
any interEediate ets9c.
,ith the aeethetics of the si te aa I al!
exists there i9 going to have to be handled soDeholr andbelieve, a reagonable epprosch. I just don.t see Dsny
enought flat land there to oske a sedi.Dentation pond 8t
I ao less conc!rned
,ateE.
rill be any significant increaae in the
Bill Monk: }lith the hard surfaci,ng of the Etreeta and the houses, there is noquestion that there rill be an j.ncrease. Any subdiviEion ri,lI alreys increage lt.llhat you try and do is control the rate. That is rihat tle eae doing here. l{e arecontrolling the rste as a trade off to the volume. There iE no Iray thEt the volumeiill not increage. r{hat xe are doing here is trying to control thet voluDe sndrele6se it at least the saDe leveI as it ia being releesed nor, just ovcr s longerperiod of tine, and to halt the erogi.oo and coDe up rith soDe ,.aintainab.[e gysteD.
This is about the best plan that rre can cone up with.
Co unc i I vrone n Slenson: If we are going to increase the quantity of the flol{ that is
Heyor Halniltonr Do you
aftount of fI oH i nto R ice
l{ayot Hami Iton ! I think
i9 going to be spread out
it is goin g to keep goi.ng
inctease of the level oF
think that there
l{a r sh Lake?
I heard
over a
Eill Honk say
I onge t period
the systema,
naybe Doae volume, but
It is aIl qoing to drain
not qoi.nq to 9ee an
I
I
that there
of tine.
so you ate
it
and
through
the lake.
Counci Irlomen Slenson: I disaqEee with that.
have the infornaLi,on that tells me that it is true or notllEYo! Hamllton: I don't
true.
Counci lroman Snenson: lle knor this fron other instances.
there outlets on these other bodies of water doin stream froD
,ould have them seek a Iot nore. l{ill this be a volurnetric
the Iast one on the ch6in vrill Eee th6t.
repoct back fron then
llhet is the
on this?
Ylstershed's opinion on this? Have ie received any
Councilnan Horn: Are
Lake that
0bviously,
R ice Ma.sh
incresse.
Councilrooan Srenson:t
r
going to go into Rice t,larsh Lake, this is obviously going to influence the level of
the lake and i.t i9 going to influsn6s the IeveI of the creek, it's qoing to influence
the level of Lake Riley aod riqht on dorn. Jhe water is already so high nor that ingone cases it is getting a Iittle perilous. I am very rorried about this.
Betb Dacvr Yeg. They srnt 8n EAf,. They rill have to go through thc nornal p.r-
nitting procees, Just llkc any other subdivi.sioo.
ciI Meeting, Mal 96, L9B5
Hayor Hani I ton I Is there a
tleir type of arrangement so
Counci Illoman
di. gturbing the netland area?
Eill Honk: Again, the moving ofno disturbance bel.ow the ordi.n8ry
back from that as the DNR and the
possi.bility of putting
tha t the llol., could be
it as far north as the terrain
hiqh lrater mark of Rice l.lsrsh
Ci.ty always require.
in a sedimeotation basin,/baffle
controlled even ooae?
-21 -
ounci.lroman Slenson: This is something that I rouId like to knor nore of.
BilI Honk: I guess the type of outlet structure that would be put in there isquestionable. I think it l{ould be better just to berm it up and actually let itoverflovr i.n order to outlet it to the point source. you can atgue back and forthbetreen the tl{o. t{e y,iIl be recolt|nendi.ng that the basin be enlarged eegt or rest tonake it store just as nuch as possible before it does overflow and handle a Iarqerstorn. The actual type of outflo',, at this point, hasnrt been deternined. I am notsure trhether one rould be any different EeaIly than the other, except that one ightallor for more central erosion.
Swenson: l{ouId 1t be of any advantage for that to be up "itlout
allows,
Lake.
there
l{e are
rill be
staying
Hayor
Bitl
would ha ve I ike approva.l
done rith the Iatershedfinal plan, but it will
Hamilton! l{iII re see thj.s rhen it comes back for finel approval?
Monk Ihe Counci I would see plans that yrould be made for any drainsgg plan andon those plans. There is a lot of nork that needs to beDistrict, the DNR, oyself and the developer to cooe up liithbe based on this proposaL and I really donrt see any option.
a
Mayor
final
had so
vo I uDe
there
Hami I ton :
Plan. It w
mebody to e
can be 9to
is going to
l{e see that as a conce!n and that you Hould addreas that i.n youEould help me and I am sure it would helg Councillroman Swenson j.f uestinate the voluDe of xater that nay be running off nor, ihatred and hon fast that flors so re have some idea as to what increasebe dovn stream all the Ilay along.
Barb Dacv: There was a detailed aevierr and volumeregulated by the City Engineer and the permittinggolng to have rneet another set of approval ,
requirements, etc. that
process oF Riley Creek.
will be
They are
Councilnan Gevino:
Council look at bloc
7,7O0. lf we elimin
around 8,000. flhat
by L20, iirne di a te I y
lot and a little lot
lot and tro lots ov
be to eliminate one
that.
I think there are too rany lots. I Bould like to have thek 2, lots 16, 19 on cul-de-sac D. I find those tt{o lots atated one 1ot on that street Ne could bring the averaqe up tois happening here is you are taking a corner lot, rhtch is 100next to it you have a lot thet is 70 by ll0, so you have a Iargeand then riqht next to it aqarn you have a 10,000 square footet you have another 7r700 square feet. My .ecoomendation HouIcllot along that street, cul-de_sac B. I xould like to address
Gene Ernst: You are co!rect. The ridth of the tots are thetionsl thing j.s that there rill be additional backthe teason ne Ieft those at thst size.
Counci 1fi6 n Gevinot Those are my objections on th6t street. The street tolots ,l and Jl on the cul-de-s6c, ore also veryyou elimin6te 6lot, just square off the sizeg8r500 square feet suirounded by thege tro 7,900
Yards on
same. The only
the large. lots.
addi-
Tha t is
of that on the ssme block,
lots. I don,t intend thot
those. Your corner lot is
the uest
sma I I
of soDe of
snd 7,700
t
II,I
eeting, May 20, l9
foot
.,:*
Iots. You then have a huqebe pushed out a Iittle bi.t.looking Iots.
-28-
lot, lot 10, in the oiddle of the cuI_de-sacYou could square thoge lots up and have sonecould
decentI
Couneilman Gevinq: I xould llke to
Tha t is my intent.
have every lot the same ?
have most of the lots ove! 8,000 square feet.
or Hamilton!
l.layor Hami I ton:
done llhat tie have
Is yo ur intent to {
{
A 7,700 square foot lot
asked them to do.
is very close to that. I think they have
Counci I man Gevinq! I think that
that 8,000put in there, I think
Jerry Martin r Gene and I looked
do just what you are trying to do
Councilman Gevinq:
to make then Iook a
at that
and ne
in tha t particu.Iar area.sar l{ha t you 9ar.
I am not trying to elioinate a Iot heEe andlittle bi,t larqer to the aveia ge homeo}r ne r .
naintain the styte of the hones
i.s paetty much of a n|inimum.
l{e lre!e ttying to
there. I am trying
in order to
square f eet that re
Jerry ilartin:
Gene sat donn
Counci I man
fo ur decent
sites, all
uene L
Iie
and
looked at
ttied to
exactly the sane thing and ourpull those lots around.
comment vras that also.
{
Gene: l{e did that and that is r.hy these Iots got Iarger. Before, these were thesame size, l{e added the sguare footEge to lots 1B &,9 to make those Ia!ger bec6usethey nete the same size as the adjacent lots. your comment i-n reference to lot 50;you are correct. That Ii.ne could change to increase lot rl. Ihe reason that riasdone is because the survey is simpler to Iay it out.
Gevinq: I f ye lere to extend
home sites on 32, ,1, )! and
over 8,000 square feet.
the
t0.
rnst: That is
tro identical lots.
no problem to ehange that Iine. It is simply a matte! ofad j ustmen t .
Counei I man Horn. I had
and if we can negotiate
great. 8ut,
think it is
off and nake
concep t of nixing theo
re have aIl the small
together.
expressed sooe
to eliminate to
vh at I an concerned about
bette. to mix a small one
concern earlier over the 7r700 square foo t Iot
I think that,s
the sane. I
cut the big one
I like the
an area rlheae
bunched
get
doing
out
is
avetage up to I5,000,
making every lot Iook
in Hith a big one than it is to
in wrth the
Iots bunched
Pretty soon it gets very nonotonous.
larger lots. I Irould hate to havetogether and all of the large lots
Counci Irloman llatson: Ile do
that is Councilman Gevingrs
you will find, as the Hayor
unde r I0,000 square feet.
Mavor
that is lrhat lie
Halni I ton :
Councilman Hoan:
h6ve aIl of the sosll lots
and my point. If you mark
says, v.e have a nice mi x.
bunched togethe..
do*n these lots in
lle have a nice mix
I think
that corner
of lots all
I think our
He re Iooking
I tend to agree trith the Hayor.
ne is ,hat s PUD is all about. It
average lot size has increased siqnificsntly and I thinkfor. He are bound to hsve a fetr sorall lot9.
conce rned obout everege lot
you Iook for the average Iotsi zes. Thet to
512e, snd thst allor,s you sotl|e variety,
I am
says
Lot line on .lot f0, then you rrould heve
Those four could be very nice ho,t|e
t
cil Meeting, nay tfi tsas
,oln McGuire !I Iive at
serrectly, vii,ll abut up
put up a six foot
include the church
be rm
''.d -29-
8026 Erie. My property, if I an interpretting thisto the church p.operty. I understand that they are going toup against aII the northern lots. My question is, will that
-t
l
as well?
Barb Dacyt If there is
Pl an reviel{, stafl lrould
additional g!ading.
to be a church Iocated at that site and going throughcertainly make recommendatj.ons msking that site plan
site
rith
Tom McGr.rire: Ilill they also have two trees per lot.
Gene Ernstr The descision l{as
no berming. There ia an area
be very difficult to place.
the trees xould
here, because of
be located on the lots that there isthe topography, that the berni,og would
rl
rllMayor Haoi lton:
that the church ate
tlhile
PeoPle
are discussing that church Iot, is there a reelgoing to be able to purchase that lot from vou?
possj.bility
X Jerty l{artin! Yes, re are about 99.9 percent sure. ll
4rea Resident: One of the things that ha9 been an issue for the people rn Chanhassen llEstates throuqhout this trhole process, has beeo the question oF the qarages and tne l_lbasenents. r{e have been to the pranning commission and tar.ked ith then and r thinkthey nade a recommendation that both doubre garages and baaeDents should be oart ofthis proposal. r rEs a rittle confused as to ,hat Barb Dacy said in regards to the llbaseDent issue. l{ouId you address vrhat you think about that and {hat you might be .tI
recomnending here,
Jeremv Neiqhbor: I am a partner (ith the architectural coalition and vJe have beencommissioned by New ADerican Homes to p.ovide the designs for Hidden Valley. I canstate' unequi.vocably ' that att the houses nill have tro cer garages and they witl arrhave basements, either par.tial or full . There is a situation r{ith !espect to the saythe topography of the rand, that given the nay the land lays and putting a house onthat site, the back side of the lot sloping off would require, by necessrty r a walk_out basement if you vranted one ot not. The others yiould be provided, because thot issimply t{hat the market uants.
Mavot Hami I ton:Thete are ntany homes in Chanhassen today that, you could say, do notSimply becsuse the lay of the land you couldn't put a basement ines that {ere built near lakes. If they put a basement in, theytet. That is, consequently, the saDe situation that exists here.es, you couldn,t put a full baseftent in.
ha ve basements.
some of these hom
rould be under ra
Some of those hon
JerenV Neiqhbort In some instances it will be splitbsse,l|ents, and sOme instances partial basements. gut
area for storage and a tro ceE garaqe !
entrances, some instances full
in all csses there wrll be an
Councilman Gevino: Perhaps you could show us your sketches.
Jere,ny
ate pao
ner pla
rule ou
using s
slso be
of hous
rangiflg
Neiqhbor:
posing for
ns and that
t the possi
plan of th
included.
es svailabl
f roo 1,100
I have a number of sketches to shoN. l{e presently have 6 lrhich r.ethe I09 units to be developed. Ie are also constantly developingis to say that v,e rill not only hsve six plens. It also doesnrtbility of a homeorine. cominq in snd purchasi.nq a piece of _land andeit ol.n and |,ould meet the criteEi,6 in terns of quslity, couldl{e h6ve t.ied to set up a range of houses to make e t.ide varietye to more thon just a single notch make. Snaller houses avsilablesquare feet up to 1r400 square feet. All have tlo car garages
ll;
eting, May 20, 196-.!.,
have bagesoents and al I have a lot of
le in the oarket. I rill shor you pla
,rrte are nore to be developed. I ) 5plit
, master bedroom, den, and another bedroo
d-.leveI entry, and in the haI f Ievel there
cerned about the perki,ng for the church andto accornmodate the parking for the church.
larger?
rnd of split IeveI entry that re rill provid
fr
other emeni,ties that re are finding
ns that re rill definitely be provi.ding,
level entry - This. is a snaller house,
n, a large Iiving roorn, a deck on the
is a fsnily roon and baseoent. This is
e and the s torage that you are talking
00 square feet. It has a vaulted
made that the Planning Co,noisgion lr89 con-
rhethcr or not 1.2 acres is!| sufficient
Was there gooe sgreel!ent to nake that
-,0-
B, so the total area no'l is
rbout. Thi,s is a soaller house ihich hss lr2
Counc i lroman Srenson: There ,as a confienti
I
I
I
\
I
Lot
Ile
Batb 0acy !
1.59 acres.
59 unde r plat
ha ve not seen
has been added to outlot
a speci fic site pIan.
Councilnan Gevino: No, trhere did you get that impression?
Dennis Loechle!! It ras discussed at the
l,ould have to qoth rough, this rhole plan
Planning t{eeting. I f the church plan fell
b6ck to the Pl ann i ng Conm i sEion .
Ba rb Dacv:
enothe r plao
for outlot B
If the chqrch does not locate on outlot B,
reviei procegs, but the entire site xould
a nei use wquld trigger
not be re v i eied, j u9t the use
Denn i s Loechler: Will the developer be al loned to bceak ground vr i thout that outlot
f ro0 Dakots,
sidcs of it.
Hidden V.lley.
berng decided?
Mavot Hsoiltoo! Yee he rill be.
Jeff Papke! I live.t 8010 Erie. The line of hones right atong Eri.e
the cul-de-sac hss reElly becorne violent lrith the busy roads on both
Thes! are guppoge to become !he tro pri.oary entaaoceg and accesseg to
I9 thetc sooe l.ay to include s!nc type of becning on thst prope!ty?
t
r
t
ceilinq. The prices fo8 the hou9e9 i,n general ',ill rsngr sol'erhere in the neigh_
borhood of t65,000 to t75,000, depending on the basenents, to about $85,000 to$95'000. Thete is a lot of vari.ety here. rt has to do rith the size of the rot, andit has to do rith the kind oF options that a person might edd. 2) cottage type house -this has l'200 sguare feet. The loier Ievel has a vaulted ceiring. The second revelhsB € large attic storgge area, ss rell as the tro car garage, off_side deck, trobedrooms up, large naster bedEoom belo',, lErge open kitchen_dining area. ,) .l.lodel C_This has I,280 square feet. It has a tlo car garage and vaulted ceilings. 4)Model D - This i,s a lr000 square foot, tro story hoDe rith a vsulted cej,ling in theliying roolI and a lgrge open area. A lot of rindors to t€ke caae of rhich is abeautiful site' trenendoue ao'enities '.ith respect to the aevene. 9) Model E - Thigi3 s large one-story plsn rith accesa dorn to the basercnt. This has lr2go on one8tory. This is the '.idest hone of the group and it ia on.r.y 40 feet acrosa snd Bouldfit essily fit on a 70 foot rot rith r5 foot sideyard eetbsck on either side. 6)l{odel. F - This is a cottage type sty.l.e hone, 1,100 square feet rith trro bcdroorsabove rith a loft, lsrge living rooo, vaulted ceiling in the livj.ng room. This isjust s start and r! see this as just a oinimu,!. l{e are developing house plsns at therate of one or tro a day.
Dennis Loechler! I Iive in Chanhassen Estates. It is my understanding that therhole plan is seally contingent on the church bei.ng developed on that outlot. rsthat correct?
p
Bruce Frykmanr I live at 8020 Erie. The issue of the park dedication, as far asdedicating money or dediceting l.8nd, r really think rith the ounber of children this
',ill brinq io, that dedicating money to a fund that is qoing to put a tennis court upone-half mile aray from those housi.ng areas is a mistake. r think that there shouldbe a dedi.cated tot Iot land in that development and also I am concerned about theexisting drainage ptobleo, the berming and the ps.kinq lot.
nc i I Meetrnq, l,lay 2';:aI985 -lr-
Btuce Frvkman: There r,ras the other i.ssue, too, about the tot lot.I had tlas about the sediDentation basins, that they are not qoing
nosquito breeding ponds. Ho!. are they goinq to be contained?
0ne
to be
other concern
staqnant
Havot Haoilton: As yoo heard, we are qoing to have to get more information back onthe enginee.ing from the developers about the sedimentation basins. As far as thetot lot, I think you heatd that ne are not interested in just building a tenniscourt' as you mentioned, we rant sooeplace wheae children ean pfay actively and reare going to have to find out sorae more information about that.
Council'loman Slenson moved to approve the prelimj.nary plan including rezonrngplanned residential. development subject to the follori.ng conditions!
to P-1,
1 Rezoninq
0utlots A
approval
should be
of the propeEty lill be P-l south the Drive A aod the remoining
and D be rezoned to a com,nercial designati.on subject to city
ordinance amendmentof the Land Use Plan Amendment. A zonin
processed to al Iow churches in the P-l Di,strict.
EiLl Monk: lle have never really tarked about the traffic that much, and ,.e ehould alittre bit. I am proposing as a requirement'of the ci!y that this access drive becontinued off the site aod hook up nith Dakota. So the council is aHare that is apa.t oF City's municipal state aid system trying to get a frontaqe road that rillcone aII the ray through froo l84th Street over to Audobon Road and hook up ylith thesouthern portion of the site. The duplexes, i.n thi.s particular area, do end up flithdoubre frontages. The city ri11 only be seeking to acqui.re 50 feet because of theexisting sinclair station. There is goi.ng to be very limited things that can be donein here. There, perhaps, can be some landscaping, but the question of a bern isgoing to be difficult. I haven,t Iooked at the street grade to see xhat kind ofseparation there lrill be, but in essence, I think the city has alreys planned that
sooteday thi,s tosd rould eontinue on through here and thst is what is beiog proposed.
As to the heavy useg on both sides, one of the reagons that re a.e not reconoendingthat this 80th street be pushed through is because of fear a certain area rill be
uaed as a shoEt cut. The proposal is to plat across this and not run that roadthrough. rhere 'lill be sone duplexes th8t rill end up rith a double load and thecity xill be looking at trhat it can do rith grade differential and plantings throughthere.
Rj.ck Sathre: I ao the engineer foE the project. This same issue cane up at the
Planning Commissioo and I discussed it at that point. lle sholr on the preliminaEyqrading plan a lolering of the land nass in the church site a little bit and the.erould be a berm thst rould start one Iot north of you. The intent is that the rater
from the church property nould Flon southerly and southHesterly aod be picked up bythe storm serer. so nor, and in the future the high point should be along the p.o-perty line.
{II
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2. A 25 foot front yard setback on non-cuI-de-sac lots, e l0 foot front ysrdaetback on cul-de-sac lots and a mininum sepaEation bet|,een buildings of
!
coq
c
19
\\,i\.'
lufnlcAN I E GlOtl
,trrtlrt rBpi'Mrrr t,l, ,o
----€R|VEAr
TOTAL
TOTAL
0
\
\
o
('11
CBD
LO\
SINGLE I
SINGLE I
MAXIMUM LOT
GROSS DENSI'
UN]TS/ACRE t\
(BOw lr
HOUSING TYP
6.-t
AVERAGE LO'
STBEET RIGH
CUL-DE-SAC
SETBACKS: F
-----F
E
SENT ZOI
(' I \41"
4
,. - "1:
lt"l
,,).
{2
?o
22
3
|tAIJUS
21tl
I
25
(6
/i- n
N o{2r' 53" E
s6a.14
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OUTLOT A 4.es "",""
HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAI-
OR COMMERCIAL
OUTLOT B
CHURCH S|TE
3.2 5 acres
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lncil lleetj.ng, Sectemf 9, I98,
b. Red Cedar Cove:
I ) Approval FinaI plat.
o -2-
for Hidden Valley, Uoited o.tgage
Churches as a Conditional
District, Firgt and Second
c Apptove Devel opmen t ContractCorporation.
Zoning 0rdinance Amend&ent to Allo,Use in the p-l, planned ResidentialReading, Judy Siegle, appl icant.
Ihe ool], reservation
businesses. Doe s it
lloti.on was seconded by Councj.lman
Hairi I ton, Counci lronen Iatson andvotes. Hotion carried.
SESOL UTION SUPPORIING THE UNITED
Councilman Gevino: How
Horn. The folloring voted in favor:Srenson, Counci.lDen Hosn and Geving.
Hayor
No nega t i ve
Ann Ervant, I ar! hese froD the Uni.ted Iay and I aD here to request you! support ForEn event that *e hsve qoing.on next l.eek, Septeobet lgth. It i9 a nerr event. It iean occasion lihere rre ese going out trying to solicite fundg fron new businesses inthe conrlunity. One of the southerly suourus "ir"n ". have pinpointed i.s Chanhassen,so r.e are looking for yout support. l{e have a goal of $1r0,000. l{e have pinpoiotedgoall businesses because they are vlheae we h"r"-to go if le are going to grorincreasingly in the future. Ner allocations have been reconmendea tJ Carver County9nd yout area. They have allocated neH funds last year and encouraged other agenciegrithin your area to petition for funding. I belreve the resolution is justfequesting your support for the day.
is the plan?
a.e you goinq to come into our coomunity and do that? l{hat
Ann Brv"ntr r{e have pinpointed ne." grov'rng agencies. rn chanhassen they have pin-pointed 50 ner snall businesses and we have recruited betlreen l,OO ""0-iOO voLunteersfor that day and each one is assigned app'oxiDatery. r0 different conpanies to go outand oeet ,ith the CEo or the onoer. So rithin Crhis is a ner trrins. r, n"" n.,"" been done ""r";i:::":l:l:";":i:."31::::.;;;:lr;;.llli"i"li]; ,::"";;";'ll.'i":l:.;"::'1,'ll l',li""""poris vqrv exicited about it, bqt
over. dL rL as a carget that nay be an exaople for alt
Couoci lnan Horn:
this to ou. local
participate?
I have is
oean that
vrhat does this mean if re eodorsewe are expecting then to
#.?=,.-tor":,';i:';;,i:r'r'li lil'irj':;"1:.":;. supportive or it and encourssine
rs.a ,o.tl,'iiir"-iii,l-ir,.t rhey shourd ".n",i""'luro::lr;;:
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ost and tell the busin.ss?s that. they tavc to "uooo., it becauee that is i.possibl!!nd re rG!tize that. Ha esc Just encouraging ii.n to 3qpport thc United y.y.
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r. RESoLUTI0N 185-50: Approvc plans snd Specificationa for CreekroodDrivr Street Ioproveoents.
f. Approve 1,986 police Conttact.
9. IES0LUTI0t{ 185-51: Approve Resol ution Authorizing SubDittsl of FinalLCMR Grant Aprplication, Lake Ann park Baltfield Ltghting.
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Maintained in good repair.
rt
Controlled as to temperature, ventilated and 1ightedcompatible with the heal-th and comfort of theanimal (s) .
Of sufficient size to allo$, adequate freedorn ofmovement. Inadequate space may be indicated byevidence of nalnutrition, poor condition ofdebility, stress or. abnornal behavior patterns.
E. Cleaned as often as necessary to preventcontanination of the animal(s) contained therein andto rninimize disease hazards and reduce od.ors.
Aninals sha1l be provided !,rholesome, palatable food andwater free from contamination and of sufficientquantity and nutritive value to maintain all anirnals ingood heal-th.
Anirnals kept in pet shops or kennels shal1accordance wj,th reguLatj.ons for pet shopsin addition to the regulations piovided byordinance. Pet shop or kennel owners shal1lj.cense as required by the City.-
HETGHT REGUI,ATIONSS ECTION
5-10-1
6-,0-2 The hei-ght limitations stipulated el-sewhere incode shall- not apply to the following:
4.
10.
be kept in
and kennel"sthis
receive a1
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Where the average slope of a 1ot is greater than one (1)foot rise or fal-I in seven (7) feet of horj-zontaL distancefron the established street elevation at the property 1ine,one story 1n addition to the number permitted in thedistrict in which the 1ot is situated shal-l- be permitted onthe dovrnhill- side of any building.
the zoning
L. Farm Buildin s, Certain Architectural" Features.Barns,
farns;silos, or other farm b u.l".l-d ].ngs or s tructures onchurch spires, belfries, cupol-as and dornes, nonuments,water towers, fire and hose tov/ers, observation towers,chinneys, smoke stacks, flag poles, masts and aerials;communication transrnission towers; parapet t/al,]sextending not nore than four (4) feet above theliniting height of the building.
2. Places of public AssembL Places of public assembLyer public and semi-publ icse are located on the firstrovided that for each threes of such building exceedspermitted in the district,I be i,ncreased in $ridth or
v.
1 n churches, school-s and othbuildings, provided that thefloor of such building and p(3) feet by which the heightthe naximum height otherwiseits side and rear yards shal
-94-Fr
depth by an addition3l .f?"! over the side and rearyards required for the. hiqhest -u"iiiiis".therr,rise
penritted in the district l
YARD REGUI,ATTONS
6-11-4
6-11-5 permitted
9l_d9yb_1. fronrage lots,provl-ded on both streets.should face the existing
the required frontWhenever possible,street.
yard shal1 bestructures
sha11 not be co ns rdei
obstruc tions in Re qu ired ards. The fol lowinged to be obst ructi.ons:
1
2- fnterior ci de Yards.prol ectlot line t-n to any requ.l-
lect to t
ffi '.oilti,i|,..:l;:.:t.:Ii"i.. -1rne, cornices, canopies, "av"i, oi 6ti". architectural
i;ii::i"'?Ir'lili*,'.li:'::j:,::i.:#:=ir;-;;;- i;i -'
distance not'exceeJrnq four r/d\ ra^+ - _Pto]::t.a -an Uncovered stair r I ---- \?i/ tEcL, sr-X (6) inches;
disrance ;;; ;;';;"::S :?:"i:i'v^landinss.nav projecr astair and r.nJi";";;;ir_+,li.liS.;o5;:"ii:o";i:1"".
;:::I":'.:I."il;i:ilnj b"y,i;;;;I,'ilIil",i"s, open
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The
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-95-
above-named features may
- Yard adjoining an interiorJ'rmrtations cited above.
The following recruirern-ents qualify or supp.Lenent districtregulations' yara- measurenents snarr-ue taken from the nearest::ii:":'.:n:":"1:, i:;i#*:llgr::'in3'r "I'ii;' iil ;i:=iig:
6-11-1
"rlffL:i:t"of
a resuired yard or courr shalr be open and
6-,-7-2 A yard, court, -or other open space of one building used toconply with the provisionl-"t-iir-= ordinance shati not:fl3i1.:"olii3tii . ' viia, ""oiit
l'' or ottrei-op".,-"iii"' ro.
6-11-3 Except as provided in the Business, fndustrial and officeDistricts, ti," i.o"[-'yii:i JIiiI}. requirements sha1l beobserved on each =t."Ll-=iII-li"Illi"ili"jl".-;;"";;;i"ii]=.il ;.:3:";Iri";;.E.iIiuiie.
SECTTON 11.
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YOUR GOOD CHHISTIAN NEIGHBOR
Post Off ice Box 388
Chanhassen, Minnesota 5531 7
Church Phone
(612) 934-5659
Nate Castens. Pastor
At Home 934-7870
Dear City of Chanhassen:
We greet you as neighbors! God wiIling, our conqregation will
soon be building a church on the site we purchased near you onLake Drive East in the Hidden Valley development.
We look forward to beinq good neighbors with you in our community
and we pledge ourselves to making and keeping our neighborhood apleasant place to live and worship.
When plans for the Hidden Va11ey developnent were first presentedseveral years ago, homeowners and residents of Chanhassen Estateswere pleased to learn that a church was planned for a portion ofthe development. This site is zoned for commerical use, but ourchurch use will make this 3.5 acres a quiet, Iow-use area. We donot plan a preschool or a day-school operation in our facilities,
and we are cornrnitted to des.igni-ng our buildinq and site accordingto Chanhassen's detail-ed and attractive landscape requirements.Trees, shrubs, exterior building and oarking Iot desiqn all wiIlprovide a graceful apDearance to our completed Droperty from alldirections, front and back. Werve enclosed our Droposed designand site plan for vour review.
fn addition, if and when a re-alignment of t{ighway 101 and 5 iscompleted and a major intersection joins the two, our property andbuilding wi-1l provide an excellent buffer for sound and sight forour neighbors in Chanhassen Estates.
we hope that if you
them to either of usyou may have.
cordial-rJy,
have questions orso that we might
concerns, you wi 11 addressdispel any doubts or fears
lo d,- --;: ., !.-(l t(t
44H#)
+-1,)4+t"L
FEB 8 i9
UIIYOFCHAN
Dean Brown
w\/
Nate Castens ( 934-5559 )
EI
ilt'-aU/ r +'" ' '
*-
FAMILY OF CFIRIST
LUTHERAN CFIURCH
February 5, 1988
1
ttt
-t
ADDRESS |.C. Box 38ts ADDRESS ).o. Eax 338
Chc,.,hc.ssen i-C"honh a-rse", , 14 ll tr5317
1p code Zip Code
TELEPHONE ( Daytime )q34 -5 57
REQTJEST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appea1
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Land Use Plan Amendment]-_
Conditional Use Permit
Site Plan Review
TELEPHONE q3+.5Ls7
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch Plan
_ Preliminary PlanFinal Plan
Subdivi sion
_ Platting
Metes and Bound.s
vacat ion
Wetlands PermitxStr ee t/Eas ement
{
PROJECT NAIYE r U,-(-h ,l i--6rr^ r I )i rr:; t cr(u (,hu,,-c
PRESENT I"AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQTJESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
:)
PRESENT ZONING :
REQUESTED ZONING ) LL L.*U,--
usES PROPOSED Lhu.-c,ri LI e,d <rc{ iv,i rts
\SIZE OF PROPERTY ro 3.tt o-cres
LOCATI ON t BI dcir (,trrycr fgo',J H ,n ', rs, J'"--
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST NE t cn -, t r r-r cJ i:.r
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary) L,:.l l lx,k- t H idJe.,lley,
Co.yer Co.rty,H r., ', g so* c.-
T ffi fia
I,AND DEVET{)PIIEITf APPLICATION
CITY OF CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen. !tr{ 55317(612) 937-1900
AppLrcANr: f"",;ry rt CU,"t i ER: Fo,-;/y oI Lil.;:rt Lr+l.ro^- (:hurr.L
This application must be completed in futl and be typewritten orclearly printed and must U" i".o^p".,i.i-oy aII information andptans required bv,"?l_i;"fi.-;;;;";;;;;.nce provisions. Beforefiling this applic.iion, you shoirld confer with the city plannerto derermine the soecitic'"iai""i;; ;;;'p.""edurar requiremenEsapplicable to your application.-'-- -"-
city
Land
Pag e
FTLIN INSTRUCT IONS:
FTL ING CER? IF T CATION:
Signed By (t
of Chanhassen
Development Application2 --
(
(-
e
The undersigned reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is familiai riti,-ti,"-ir;;u;;;ui"r"qurrements ofapplicable City Ordinances.
certifiesall
I Dat e 1-et -)tApprLcan t
$xr,'..,,c,,, Nu Bui ldin* Lc,-,-ij*z <,
dcty{,...- Piro",. Bio-UCa5A
The undersigned hereby certifies that the appJ.icanti::::ii:;: to make trris appiic..i""-i",".he property has been
herein
Date Application
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
Paid ,SO,
OT
Date 1-21 -3 7Fee Or"rne r
Recei ved ??Z
,L t1 0(D
This Applicarion wi 11Board of Adjustmentsmeeting.
be
and
cons idered
Appea.Ls at by thethei r Planning Commi ss ionl
/u
Signed By
+,
590 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
CITY OF
EH[![H[SSEI[
xl
SUBJ: Site Plan Review of Family of Christ Lutheran Church
Planning File No. 88-l
This site is part of the Hidden Valley subdivision and is located
in the northeast quadrant of the intersection of Lake Drive East
and Hidden Court (refer to attachment 1). The 3.25 acre site is
composed of an open field with a berm on the east side of the
parcel which provides screening to the "Chanhassen Estates
Subdivision" (Additions 1 and 2) to the east.
Sanitary Sewer
UEUORANDU!{
?O: Planning Commission
FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer
DATE: February 11, 19 88
Watermai n
Municipal water service is available
8-inch Iine which was extenaled from
property boundary.
Municipal sanitary sewer service is available to Ehe site by an
existing 8-iach diameter sewer service located on the east pro-
perty boundary ( refer to attachmeot 2l . A 5-inch sanitary sewer
cleanout should be proviiled beLween the proposetl building aad
the property boundary since the total length of the sanitary
sewer service exceeds 100 feet.
to the site by an
Erie Avenue to the
exis ting
eas te r ly
The proposed watermain should be extended from the existing water
service on the east property boundary to the existing 8-i.nch
diameter watermain located south of the site on Eidden Court.
The diameter of the proposed watermain which traverses the parcel
should be a minimum of 6 inches while the extension of the water-
main along Hidden Court shoulC be I inches in diameter.
The proposed hydrants shoulii remain a minimum distance of 30 feet
away from the building such that safe access to the hydrants may
be maintained in the event of a structure fire. Each hydrant
should have a 6-inch gate valve betsween the hydrant and watermain.
Planning
Februa ry
Page 2
Commission1r, 1988
Plans and specifications for the installation of thesewer and watermain shoulil be submitted for approvalEngineer prior to final site plan approval .
sanitary
by the City
It is recommended that only one primary access be allovred fromthe site ont.o Lake Drive East to keep traffic patterns and move-ments on Lake Drive East to a minimum. The proposed access meetsthe minimum required site distances in accordance to the stan-dards of Minnesota Department of Transportation.
To insure access of fire and emergency vehicles, an additionall5-foot wide driveway will be required to access onto HiddenCourt. This driveway should be constructed in accordance to thet.ypical driveway secrion such that Ehe future parking lot may bematched into the driveway. Since this access is to 6erve as asecondary access, no curb will oe required along the driveway.
A concept plan for the realignment of State Highway 101, which ifconstructed may affect the intersection of Lake Drive East andHidden court ( refer to attachment 3), has been submitted to thisoffice. The access onto Hidden court should be located a minimumdist.ance of l-00 feet east of Lake Drive East such that propertraffic movements may be accommodated.
Grad i nq
The-p1ans propose that che central portion ofgraded to approximately 3.0t and sloped to thefour foot berms have been proposed aiong Lake
Access/Part<inq
The proposed grading of the siteany trees.
Draina qe
The grading plan should be revisedthe east of the proposed buildings
away from the building and to the
the parcel besouth. Two toDrive East.
will not require the removal of
E.o include a drainage swale toto maintain positiv; drainagesouth.
off-site runoff for the proposed church was accounted for duringthe storm sewer and ponding design of the Hidden VaIIey sub_division. Therefore, no further-retention of storm $rater runoffr^ti1I be required unless otherwise required by other regulatoryagencies. A 2I-inch diameter sot.rm sewer stib was proiid"d atthe southerly property boundary. ?he existing "io.i, .e,"ei irrv"rtelevation is 944-95. submittar of prans and ipecifications iden-aifyils proposed entrance conditioni to the stlrm sewer systenwrII be required for approval by the City Engineer prior Lo finalsite plan approval .
Planniag
February
Page 3
Commi s s ion
1r, 1988
A drainage swale should be constructedbuilding to maintain positive drainageto the south. Similarly, the southwest
be revised to insure positive drainage
access and to tshe storm sehrer system.
east of the proposeC
away from the building andcorner of the site should
away from the pr imary
t
2
The proposed courtyartl between the proposed church and future
classroom addition (refer to attachment 4) should be revised tomaintain drainage away from the building and provide an adequatebuffer for flooding during a I00-year storm event.
Erosion Control
The plans do not. address erosion control. Submittal of an accep-table erosion control plan indicating the location, type of ero-sion control , and the Cityrs standard details for properinstallation wilI be required prior to final site plan approval.
Approval of the preliminary site plan for Family of Christ
Lutheran Church dated January 25, 1988, is recommended upon Ehefollowing conditions:
The developer sha11 enter into a development contract withthe City aod shal1 proviile the necessary financial suretiesto guarantee the proper inst.al.Lation of the utilities.
The developer shall obtain and comply with aII conditions ofthe Watershed District Permi t .
A 6-inch sani.tary sewer cleanout shall be provided on thesanitary sewer service and sha1l be located 12 feet r.rest ofthe easterly property boundary.
Plans and specifications for the installation of the sanitary
sewer. 'ratermain and storm sewer shal1 be submitted for
approval by the City Engineer prior to final site plan
approval.
The plans shall be revised to show a 24-foot wide bit.uminous
driveway bet\,veen the $rest access onto Lake Drive East and
Hidden Court. This access sha1l be construcLed in accordance
Lo t.he typical parking 1ot section (Irith out curb) as sho$rn
on the plans. The location of the access onto tlidden Court
shall be located a minimum distance of I00 fee! east of Lake
Drive East to al1ow for proper traffic movements.
A drainage swale shall be located east of the building pad to
ensure proper drainage away from the building and to the
souEh.
3
5
6
Planning Commi ssion
February 11, 1988
Page 4
7. The proposed "courtyard" area as shown on attachment 4 shallbe revised to maintain proper drainage away from the buildingand shall provide an adequate buffer from ilooding during a100-year storm event.
8. The southwest corner of the site sha11 be revised to insurepositive drainage away from the primary access and to thestormsewer system.
9. Al1 fire hydrants shall be located a minimum distance of 30feet away frorn all proposed structures. AII hydrants tnalthave a 6-inch gate valve between the hydrant a;d watermain.
10. An acceptabre erosion control plan indicating the location,type of erosion control , and the Cityrs stanaard detail forinstalration of the erosion contsrol itrall ue s uumiiiea-pri.orto final site plan approval .
11. AII erosion control measures shalt be in place prior to thecommencement of any grading and once in place sirall remain inplace throughout the duration of construltion. The deveroperis required to revie$, erosion control and make the ne-essaryrepairs prior to the onset of spring runoff. All of the ero_sion contro.L measures sha1I remiin intact until anestablished vegetative cover has been produced, at which timeremoval sha1I be the responsibility of the devetoper.
12. Hay bales shall be placed around all storm sewer inlets.
i3. Wood fiber blankets sha11 be utilized to stabilize alldisturbed slopes greater than 3:1.
14. Erosion contror check dams shall be placed at 100-foot inter-vaLs in all constructed drainage swales.
15. hlorking hours shall be between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and6:00 p.m. with no work allowed on Sundays ana Hofiaays.--
i6. The developer shall promptly clean streets, on and off site,of alL dirt and debris that has resulted from constructionwork by the developer, its agents or assigns.
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CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSIOII
REGULAR MEETI NG
JANUARY 29, 1988
Cha i rman Conrad called the meeting to
PRESENT: Tim Erhart, StevenBrian Batzli and David Headla
order at 7:35 p.m..
Emmings, Ladd Conrad, AnnetteMEMBERS
Ellson,
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jarnes Wi ldermuth
PUBLIC P RES ENT :
Nordquist Signs
DataServ
DataServ
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report on the sign variance request.
Steve Hertz: I'rn with Nordquist Signs. We have done past work withDataserv and I think the main emphasis here is, their intent to comein with a uniforrn sign program. They do have approval to put up afreestanding sign identifying their corporation which carries on theirlogo and their leEter style. They went so far as to take it one stepfurther and look at their directional situation and design sornethingthat r,rould coincide with that. This goes back to r"rhat they have attheir main corporate offices which are in Eden prairie. So in takingover this site, they wanted to follow through with that and create auniform sign program. I think youtIl see by the design of the signagethat it is not overpowering. The main intent i.s to make somethingthatrs easily legible as people drive through the site. Again,I think it needs to be empitasized is the fact that the s j.te is veryIarge and there is going to be future development on this site.Presently the letter sizes there axe 2l/2 inches on the upper case so
rder re not looking to advertise. i,Ie're looking to identify and directtraffic. At this point, are there any questions that I can answer?
There are also representatives of Dataserv here that would Iike to
speak.
Conrad: Maybe wer l.L have some guestions for you later on Steve.
Bonnie Wagner: I'm representing Dataserv here tonight. I wonder if
we could refer back to your overhead of the actual facility and theaccess, or the approach to the building? In viewing the access to thebuilding, we feel that this presents to us and our customers and toour shipping and receiving people a hardship in that you have toby-pass the building on TH 5 and then you have to identify how toapproach or to actually access the building. So you pass the builCingon TH 5 and then you turn left and then just after ucDonalds you haveto turn into the left, which is not visible to you. you have totravel some $ray towards the entrance of the building and as you enterthe front of the building, there is a very limited, small viiitorparking lot. We do not r,rant that to be a thoroughway. We do not want
L
\
VARIANCE TO THE SIGN ORDINANCE TO ALLOW A 12 SQUARE FOOT ON-SITE
DIRECTIONAL SIGN ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFEICE PARKDISTRICT AND LOCATED A? 19011 LAKE DRIVE EAST, NORDQUIST SIGNS(DATASERV) .
Steve Hertz
Bonnie Wagner
Ann RoIIing
\traffic to go through to the front of the office. That's maintainedstrictly for a small visitor situation. So the traffic has to flowthrough the road, around to the side of the building. At that point
we have to identify to the;n where is employrent parking. Where do yougo for shipping and receiving so hre,re proposing that thesedirectional signs are necessary to us and to the community because ifwe donrt direct this traffic appropriately, you have residentiaL areasimmediately next to the property of Dataserv so we want to eliminatejams, confusion and get the traffic in and out of there asappropriately as vre can and as quickly as we can, as a matter of fact-we are planning to move our headquarters to the chanhassen site in thenear future so we expect, we are experiencing a great deal ofemployment gro$rth. We've outgrown the Eden prairie facility in just ayear and a half so we expect to move into Chanhassen, probably about300 people immediately and then our future plans are to move ourexisting headquarter base into chanhassen and build and construct newbuildings and have a campus environment, if you wi11. So we feel thatthese signs wilt be necessary and informational at this point and willbe utilized as !'re grow. We're hoping, if it,s possible, then $re canactually utilize our existing signs yet out of the Eden prairie siteif they conform and if they are maintained along our identity. Anyquest i ons ?
Conrad: Not yet. Thank you
company in Chanhassen. we r IIa comment on Ehis subject.
We're pleased to have
up to anybody else who
Bonnie.
open it your
may ira ve
Erhart move(i, i-leadla secondedin favor and rnotion carried.to close the public hearing. All voted
?he punlic hearir:g ssas closed.
Headla: What,s the address of Dataserv in Chanhassen?
Steve Hertz: l90ll Lake Drive East.
Headla 3 So Lakeland Drive, if someday turns offgoing to make a left hanC turn at Lakeland Drive.I^,ere f inding in the other business.
of TH
The
5, they're
same as they
Bonnie Wagner: I'm so r ry.
Headla: wouldn't sornebody corning in trying Lo f in<l Dataserv wour.dturn off of TH 5 and as they go down now Dakota, they,re going to Eurnon Lake Drive, since thatrs your address. So, lire sheet i have herehas one directional sign there. Maybe they wouLcl nake a turn therewhich r.rould be a logical thing to do. r think the sign or,f inance isgood- r don't see where we're working a hardship and r do support theStaffrs position.
BatzIi: I thinkAttorney for CpTto Dataserv.
I need to absta in
anC wo r kL.(l on the
on this mattertransaction to
I was anthe facilities
s I nce
lease
Ellson: Irn correct in that werre justones. Theyrre also Iooking aE off-siEeriqht?
ta lking about
$rh i ch goes to
on-site
Counc i I ,
the
the
Planeing Commission Meeting
January 2q, L988 - page 2
Plann i;rg Commiss ion Meeting
January ?-q, 1988 - Page 3
Erhart: The ordinance statessigns no matter hor^, big your
CPT building are 4 fcot? Do
LJo signs at aLl? ?her3 must
di ffereot than CpT.
Iimited to four on premiseCurrently, the signs at thegns at the existing building?
fc r your requirements being
Olsen: That t s right.
EIIson: I agree that Ehey probably do need signs but I thintr therecommendation of just taking the company name and rogo off andkeeping the height of the arrovrs and Ehe direction exictly the samewould probably accomplish the same thing, so r pretty muc-h agree withthe staff recommending to stay with the smaller size.
Emmings: I think the signs are not unattractive and they don,tparticularry bother me but they don't conform to the ordilance. r,mnot persuaded by the notion that because it's a rarger site, you needlarger signs. I think that's kind of a silly way t5 set uf 'an
ordinance. So if you have srnall sites.you put up small silns and bigsites, big signs. you. nay need more silns, but i don't think yo, n"6dbigger ones. r don't know if yourve ha6 a chance to Iook through ourordinance and see whatrs required for us to find, in order to grant avariance, but those factors are laid out and r didn't hear .nytt,ingsaid that wourd convince me that it wourrl be appropriate for us tofind that a variance would be necessary. so r too wourd support thestaff recornmendation on this.
that we I re
campus is.they have si
be a reason
Bonnie Wagner: They ,raybe
the site at this tine. I
Erhart: No Ifor s ignage?
mean lrour requrrements are sonehowApparently drarnatically,lifferent.d i fferent than Cp?
had
Co
signs prior
not know if ti'rere a re
were there
no signs atp:ior.
i:ut
thelz
Ann RolIing: ?le feel thethere is no direct access
problems CPT had. . .
to the building is confusing based onbuil<ling. fle don't know what
rnaybe if we,re going tosize of Ehe fac-iJ.ity,footage. I donrt have
access
Lo the
Erhart: I guess the cnly question i had washave something, run it proportional to it'swould be the nurnber of signs, not the squareany inore quest ions.
Conrad: I agree. I think I could have been persuaded on the numberof signs because of the size of the facitity. I guess the only thir-tEI r.rould raiser 4 square feet for ;lirectional signs is still prettysmarl. r'd lay it out and look aE it, and from a car and from 40 feetaway, itrs not a big square footage for signage for rlirectional signs.I could be persuaded to look at the ordinance .rnc review that aspeat
!9 =ry 4 feet might not be big enough in generar for chanhassen iordirectional but I don,t think that's going to help you in thisparticular case. r dontt think it needs to be 12. rt courd be 6. rtcould be 7 but the 12. I knoe, $rhat yourre doing. Iou've got signsthat are useful right now and I undeistand that that's u q6oapractical business decision-and they,d be attractive sign;. we havean ordinance that we've applied to;Il our current busiiess cark
Planning Cornmiss ion Meet ing
January 29, ]-988 - page 4
(residents and so far we haven't hearc, staff correct me, i4re haven.theard a rot of negative feedback about the sizing. Ho$rever, if we do,I think r.re could take a look at that issue anC m;ke sure thitdirectional signs and the sizing is appropriate for the businessname. werre not trying to penarize anybody for trying to move trafficaround but in this particular case, my comnent would-be, I feelcomfortabre with the ordinance. r think it could be ariered if youtold me that it,s not big enough to really move the traffic but idon't think chanhassen wourd come back wilh a 12 foot size. That's mypersonal feeling.
Ann Rolling: I had a question. They layout of the sign would be,rrhat we have for the existing buildings, Iike a 4 squaie foot sign,the actual area that the sign takes up is the sa*" .-rea ihat we have.we're-just utilizing the face. The face carries straight down to theground rather than two poles holding up 4 square feet.
Conrad: lihat's the interpretation of that Jo Ann?
Olsen: You do the size from the face of the sign.from the highest point. Eroo the poles you donitmeasure the face of the signs.
Ann Rolling: f guess what Irm saying is, wetre utilizing that arearather than...create clarity and aesthetically pleasing.
Conrad: What we're trying to do in Chanhassen is, we certainly wantto advertise the good members of the business commuoitv. we're nottrying to restrict Ehat but we're also trying to keep iignaje frombeing everyplace and if we keep sorne kind of-constra-int 6n itr thenone-, aesthetically it looks better, but two, everybodyrs not competingwith everybody erse trying to get tigger .na uett-er sign.ge. Actuarrysaving money in the long run for our-6usiness friends. - r"think mygeneral feering is rrm comfortabre with the ordinance as it is.
Headla: I think werd be_ sending the wrong signals to those people ifwe allow one conpany. Then another one can co:ne in with otherrat iona Ie.
conrad: r think the ceal is Dave, we'd have to take a look at theordinance. r don't knor., that a variance is appropriate in this case.r think taking a rook at the ordinance is the onry trring and r thinkas our friends from Dataserv go to city council, -naybe ihe council cangive you a feeling of whether they feel that a revi3ion of theordinance vrourc i)e appropriate. we'!re always happy to take-a look atthat. I think that's the solution.
Not necessar i lymeasure. You just
these directional signs?put up a 12 foot high orbe at 4 square feet.if they r^ranted. Thatusing the feet ofhere with a 12 foot high
Erhart: Do lre currently limit the height ofOn premise directional signs? some guy could_ perhaps even higher? Maybe even 1g ind stilla- They could put it on the top of his buildingpertains Eo the question that r.ras asked aboitsignage. The factis, sonebody could walk insign and we wouldn,t need to look at it.
Headla: There would have to be a particular need for that though.
P],ann ing Commiss ion Meeting
January 29, Lggg - page 5
Erhart: But we couldn,t deny it
Emmings: Why would somebody do
Ellson: If it was a directionalto see it.
Emmings: They'reir.
though.
that to themselves?
sign for a car, iE,d be pretty hard
trying to put it someplace where people could see
Conrad: I think the premise is it's got to be a functional sign.this way for shipping. Go that way foi receiving. co this way ifyourre an employee. We have to meet that need so functionally, wehave to meet the need of moving the traffic the right way. r thinkcase could be made to me that you need more than 4-squari feet to dothat. I could relate to that problem but f can,t relate to thisparticular situation.
Erhart: I'm not trying to relate to this. I coul,i agree that itmight be that it shourd be a rittle bit bigger. The issue that comesabout is, on one hand the intent is to not make the sign any ,noreobstructive than or aestheticarry displeasing as possi6l.e. we havethe ordinance allows them to go, we gieatly iestrict the size of asign but we don't restrict the height and lo ne, the heighr: is just asimportant as the size. ,So all I.m saying is, ..rg sort of have a holethere. There probal:ly is a coupre good reasons to rool( aL ti.Ie whoreordinance. Size and height and to review tite question o: using thelegs and how does that relahe Eo the height anrl size.
Were
we re
Go
a
Conrad:
that we
Dacy: Yes, in the upcoming inonths sopart of that review.
we reviewing the sign ordinance? wasnrE there mentiongoing to do that?
Conrad: It doesnrt help Dataserv right now. It's sort ,)f aunfriendly welcome !o the cornmunity what 1'6ut re hearing i)ut rnaybe,$rill do that. We will take a look at least as ae review the signordinance in the next couple months Eo .neke sure that...
Ann Rolling: Do you know when that,s going to be i:ecause for theamount of money that r.re're spending, f guess Ird like to maybe holdoff on that. We were planning on rnoviog people into that t:uifaing
hhe end of Eebruary or March, our rvaitiog to see what happens.
Conrad: i{e don't have a specific time to review do we?
Emings: There's one thing you eluded Eo, and II understood it right. D3 I understand that you
this could be incorporated as a
,e
Dy
m not surealready have these
Dacy: After the meeting that will take place on l,tonday, staff willhave a bett.er idea as far as the time schedule but theie won't be apublic hearing schedule in February or ttarch. It lrould probably bethe end of March, beginning of April. We should have a Letter ideanext week on the schedule.
Planning Commission t,teet ing
January 26, 1988 - Page 5
(signs and are using them at another facility andhere? Are these brand new?
Bonnie Wagner: We are proposing brand new signs,
Conrad: Okay, anyrnore comments or questions. Is
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded thatdenial of the sign variance requeston-gremise directional s igns. Allabstained and motion carried.
want to move them out
yes .
there a mot ion?
the Planning Commission recornmendto permit 12 square footvoted in favor except Batzli who
El1ie Schwaba
Kevin wi nchel lEarl Hea ther i nton
Jim Borcha rt
\Jo Ann olsen presented the staff report on this subdivision request.
Ellie schwaba: ?here is one other thing that r'd rike to mention.There is an existing home on the properiy and our intention is to domajor renovatiou to that home. rt's- in pretty much mediocre repairang .. -to upgrade that hor:re to the value of t-he new homes that wirr uebui lt.
Earr Heatheriogton, 735r Minne$rashta parkway: My property runs at thecomplete east side of the property in questl0n ana- atso t-he north endof the property. rt'!s_ interesting to note that the court here caughtthe fact that it is only 2.r9 acres. rt's ',ot 2 L/2 acres. rn thePlanning Conrmission,s wisdom, from 19g0 until 19gg, you have approveda totar of 33 subdivisions in this area. i l.r these subdivisions thereare various number of units and various gross acreages involved witheach. what r'd like- to submit to you that in almosi arl instances ofall of these units that have been ipproved since r9g0, th;a the vastmajority in ar-most every case, the 10t sizes that have been approvedare of a L/2 acre or greater. I'd like to submit this is yourdocument and r'!ve done the mathematics and r,d like to sub;it it foryour review and to check these figures out. In the case of theproperty that has just recently been devel0ped in the last coupte ofyears called Maple Rirlge, on l"taple Shore Drive, there are 13 singlefamily homes located on 7 acres which is an average layout per home of23,455 square feet. 2l,7gg feet is a half.n...6 ana'rii iix" tosubmit these- r'm sure that the gentleman that deveropea ttratproperty would have liked to put more lots in there. y point is:..*ply that you've got a situlrion here with u; ;a;-p.;'"ei-ot r".,athatrs been obviously divided in such a manner as to meet theordinances period. Lot t, 15,0I1 square reei. -ioi- Z"i-li,d'dg. Lot 3,
PUBLIC HEARINGi SUBDIVISION OF 2.5 ACRES INTo FIVE sINGLE FAMILy LoTSON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL AND LOCATED EAST OFAND ADJACENT TO MINNEI{ASHTA PARKWAY APPROXIMATELY L/2 I,TILE NORTH OFHIGHWAY 5, SCHWABA-WI NCH ELt , APPLICANTS.
PubIic Present:
AppI i cant
Appl i cant
7351 Minnewashta parkway
733I Minnevrashta parkway
t
Plannrng Commission Meet i ng
January 24, L988 - Page 7
22,981. Fine. The house sits on 25,435 and Lot 5, which is almosthard to believe that one would put a lot in there like that. I don't
knov, lrhat kind of house you could put on it, l5,q3l. My point is thatit does not lend itself to the neighborhood. In every case, all thelots that are north, south, east and west have at least L acre or moreof property. They are beautiful homes. It's a nice area. I havenothing against Mr, Fisher selling the property to developers andputting in nice homes but I do belive that it's probably a 3lotparcel and not a 5lot. Again, I'd just like to subrnit this to the
Planning Commission. Perhaps you have done this, perhaps you haven'tbut it rea}ly shovrs the numbers of square feet in a1I your
ilevelopments that yourve done in the last 10 ]rears and it shows quitegraphically that what you've approved is mostly half acre and abovelots. Even in high density family areas. Like Near Mountain.
Therers I53 acres there with 308 single and multi family and yet that
comes out at 21,638 square feet. Even in a high density area and thisis certainly not a high density area. And I think Jim Borchart, my
neighbor to the north would like to say something.
Jim Borchart, 7331 Minnewashta Parkway: I'd just like to echo whatMr. Heatherington said. Another major concern of mine is thedrainage. At this time we've got all the rrater from Ma.ole Ridge
through our property and it's oaly a 12 inch culvert runoing through
there and it can handle the water that Maple nidge dumps on us but if
'vre get any riore r,rater, we are going to have volume f rom my lot and the
Hauserrs lot. There are four lots there surrounding this property and
eJe're all over an acre. :n7e vrould like tc see nice homes bui lt therebut that nurnber 1lot, you canrt put much nore thao a Earage on that
by the time you get your setbacks. Like Jo Ann said, there is a very
steep hill there and they're probabJ.y going to have to go about 25feet off the back of there so the property line, we're going to have
to look at, if you put a house on it, I knov, Lhe lines are drawnpretty but can you actually build a house on these lots.
Erhart moved, Emmings seconded to
in iavor aod rotion carried. ?he
close Ehe public heariog. All votedpublic hearing vras closed.
Erhart: HovJ does Mr. volder get Eo his house?
Jim Borchart:
my driveway.
He goes through my property. He's got an easernent over
Erhart: And you're the center 1ot. At the begi:rning of the report,
the subdivision ordinance states that there shall be no direct
vehicular or pedestrian access irom i:rdividual lots to collectors,
arterials, limited access highways. This is a collector. Hoe, do you
square the proposal t/rith that?
olsen: There is an existing access and the only other alternative isto provide public street access and the adjacent property olrners are
not in favor of that so it would require condemnation proceedings.
Erhart: Just forgeE the other people.
subdivision require a private street?have nothing to do with it. ?hatrs thelooking at a plan that has a street for
lihy would this five 1ot
What's here? The other
ord inance. Why aren' tthose five houses?
lots
!re
{
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 20, 1988 - page 8
Olsen: The layout of the
Parkway is from the rear.middle...
land, I
To put
believe
another
the access to M inner/ras htastreet right through Ehe
Erhart: Are r.re asking for a variance?
OIsen: TechnicalIy, that,s in the subdivision ordinance.interpretted it, if there r.ras no other option, that therefor them to be serviced from a collector*, we would pursue
Erhart: How far apart are those two proposed drivehrays?
Olsen: About 180 to 2Ag.
Erhart: And in our zoning ordinance, what's the minimum
HeadIa: Yes.
The way we
lras a lraythat-
d i stance?
i
olsen: we donrt have a separation. For driveways?
Erhart: No, for streets.
Dacy: Thatrs in the A-2 district we have a recorunended drivewayseparat ion.
Erhart: I guess I look at this anC I think there is, I don't know.f guess IrIl have to think about that. Itll pass it to Steve but Ikeep thinking that we've just gone around the ordinance not facing thefact that maybe you canrt put five lots on here. aybe you do need acul-tle-sac and itrs a fcur 1ot subdivision. I'll pais the questionsonto Steve. I had one more question. vlhat kind of a tree is that?
Headla: Maple. That one right there by the mailbox is t'taple and it'sone of the top probably 317 maple trees along Minne$rashta parkway.
Erhart: Sugar Map 1e ?
why we would encourage anyone
Emmings: I don't really have anything here. I think that they aretrying to put a lot of houses on a srnall piece but it does meet theordinance and we certainly can't deny it because it does nneet theordinance. r don't knoe, about the drainage problem but r think that'sto be taken up by, that concerns me- His concerns about the drainagepro):lem and it also concerns me that he thinks drainage has increas6dover his lot as a result of the \,rork on i,taple Ridge. But if that'shappened, you have recourse there. r'hey cin't chinge existingdrainage patterns and if they have, you should talk to the Cily.
( Jim Borchart: r have a letter from the city Engineer right before heIeft. Nothing happened when the new engineer cime.
Erhart:
cutting
o lsen:that.
Boy, I just can't imagine
down a Sugar Maple tree.
I have contacted the new engineer and he will follor., up on
Plann ing Commiss ion l,teet ing
January 26, L988 - Page 9
Emmings: Other than that, I think it meets the letter of theordinance so iD some $rays we can't deny it on that grounds. The roadsituation really does concern me. I drive Minnewashta parkrray nearlyevery day and it's curvy and itrs particular curvy right there.There's one entrance already and I don,t know if another one,s goingto make a big difference or not. I guess I just don't know but itmight be better. I think it would be better to have a 3 or 41otsubdivision with one entrance rather than the two. Thatts all Irvegot.
Ellson: I had a question about that tree also but one of the
recommendations was that it be cut down and yet the engineering reportsaid that maybe with proper grading it wouldn,t necessarily have to
come down. I thought it was a nice looking tree too. That caught my
eyes vrhen I went there. Like these others, it obviously looks like
Ehey're trying to do as much as they can on a smalL amount of space.
You certainly canrt blame them. The ordinance is there that allohrs
them to do that so f guess I canrt take away from that but looking atthe lots around there, it did seem like a neighborhood that had rea11y
big yards and what have you and it didnrt quite necessarily fit with
the homes right around it but I suppose from the standpoint as the way
the ordinances are, they are certainly r.rithin their rights.
Batzli: I don't have any additional comments from those made.
.\
Headla: I want
beautiful t ree.
Olsen:
see to
to hear the rationale again for cutting down the
Headla: we cut down a beautiful tree to do a
we're willing to put in another driveway just
north. That's incons istent.
when we went out with the engineer, it
the south of there and it was suggested
was really d i ff icult to
that that be rernoved.
Iine of sight but thena little ways to the
olsen: We will be willing to t"rork but it lool<ed from the plans that-
they are shifting that and perhaps they can clarify this, but it looks
like they are shifting this driveway a little bit to the south and
what vrer ve learned from the forester, if you cut into where the root
system is, the tree is going to eventually die anyway. I guess it's
difficult right now before we really see the detailed plan. ff we can
save it and perhaps grade around it, explore the berm. There's some
sort of evergreen thatrs next to it.
Headla: I guess I don't even believe in that type of wording, that we
mighE be able to work out plans. I think it should be stated, they
will work around that tree. That tree will stay. Tha! tree and the
limbs are high enough, I just canrt see vrhere it's affecting the line
of sight. You donrt say anything about the mailbox that's right there
by the driveway and that mailbox can be much more of a hinderance so
I'rn in just total disagreement of destroying that tree. It's
interesting, Mr. Heatherington disagreed with the acreage. This is
the second time in tr,ro meetings where we get variations in what'sstated. The person who comes in is proposing for the land and then
what we know is actually the case. When I see two lots, one at 15,011
\feet and the other at 15,g3l, I tried to 9o through the arithematicand things are slid around enough, I canrt verify- the dimensions atall. I just donrt believe those tvro lots meet 1i,0g0 square feet. Ialso feel that five rots are inconsistent with that imm;diate area.Yourve got some beautiful homes and to have five hones there, dumpingthern onto the parkway is Ludicrous. Especially with two drivewaysless than 90 feet apart. yourre propose<1 northern driveway and ihenthe next Criveway?
Planning Commiss ion treet i ng
January 2q, 1988 - page 1g
Kevin Winchell: They're about I00 feet, yes.
Headla: Itrs 90 feet to the center ofthose two driveways are way too close.the d r i veway.That's all I
I just think
had.
Conrad: This gets ne into my favorite issue and that is, what hasbeen eruded to when lot sizes are out of sync with the neighborhoodand rrve never won because basicarry the oidinance says L5', ggo sguarefeet.
Headla: If they have it.
conrad: They have enough feet to move rot lines here to do that.I gues my concern still is, it's not really in sync with theneighborhood and it doesn't have to be the half icre oa ."." bot rthink we've always tried to nrake things kind of ..."onuui". But overthe last year h,e haven't been able to do that and r think we,ve had avery strict interpretation of the ordinance which has said if theymeet the minimum, that's it. And Jo Ann, obviously that,s stitl, ifthe nrinimum is 15, gTa and it'is not iu sync with th'e n" i !i,rc oirrooa a
O1sen: You have no justification for denial.
Conrad: Although we're very interested in neighborhoodWerre very interested in transitions and zones and thatrsto get things in sync. I"Ie still can't change that ti-, Aggminimurn. That is it-
cont inuity.
rvhy we plan
foot
{
Erhart:. Let's pose the question to steve and to our new member here,both being attornyes. I'raybe that's a irarl thing to do b;E"'il woutdseem to me, like many other sections in our oriirr.n"e, ft,u[ -in
addiEion to the strict L5,ggg square feet for this partieriu. u..u, ,r.courd add a paragraph essentiarly that wourrr say to the eiiect that ifit is determined that surrounding irouses are of generar rot sizeJ'arger, at.the City's discretion or a formula or-sometnint. somesubstance in the ordinance that wourd alrow us to appry iirqer rotsizes in those areas where the surrounding lots are i.ig"i.'
ITT]?S"r. Or maybe doing it-in those pereuliar cases r.rhere yourrefillinq in. where vou've -already got everything built up-ria someonetakes. a J.arge parcei and divid."' ii-aoin, then it must corlform to theneighborhood or at reast come croser than the orainince-i.goir"". Theprobrem r think on a deal like this though is that iittt-";io"" tt,"road it's_all open land. Last ereek ere sah, a master plan for the otherside of Minnewashta parkway on the north and it was j""t i-rrr"re mess
?5 ;Tal]. l?'ir"tntf; ! li.B IBofB lx"l i,? r" [nI!;U:.i;lu, ;:-.il;r;"t":, a:.
Planning Cornmiss ion Meet ing
January 20, L988 - Page 11
Emmings: what cul-ce-sac? I dontt know what you.re talking about.
Emmings: You also don't want to, there's sort of a naturala
piogr6"sion here that maybe you don't t ant to interfere !,rith. Where
paopf" go into a rural area and they buy 10 acres and then someone
iirl:."-their 10 acres into 5 acre parcels and somebody dces one of
those into 2l/2 ot they do them into L5,ggg square foot lots'
eventually that all becomes kind of a, through this resubdi"rision
pro.""", L..o.." kind of a highly or nuch more densely populated area.
i don't knoi, that ycu want to neLessarily stop that sort of natural'
9{ !h"-Parkr.ray, this, isn't going to be that cut of keeping with thatkinC of a plan. Right now it's-out of keeping rdith erhat,6 on the eastside of Minnewashta Parkway but it may noL uLtimately be out ofkeepir:g r"rith what will happen across the road from it. The otherprobLem you get into is, how do you ever get a transition? Ifeverything's got to be in keeping with the surrounding property, howdo you ever get a transition? It's a big question.
Conrad: I donit know that there are formulas. we've got a lot of
places in the sewered district trhere we ilave lot sizes ranging over an
1.r". I think very close to my house are a .Jthole bunch of houses with
one acre lot sizes and we were concerned about what was going to be
filled in when somebody wanted to subdivide but we really never came
to a solution. Therera not a good formula for doing that' Will you
allow half acre? will you allow a third of an acre? I don't know
that there a reasonable solution to that. I don't know that there's a
formula that we can come uP with.
Headla: I think you've got a special case here' Did any of you get a
atru.raa to drive il-own the rlriveway and look at the proposed cul-de-sac
and then see the steep grade? It isn't EhaE. you've goE 15,000 square
feet and it's all f1at.
Headla: Proposed cul-de-sac to the east
going down that driveway and you look at
has a real effect otl that property.
Conrad: How so? What does it do?
of that property.
the steep grade, to
I f you ' re
me tha t
Headla: It makes the property shallower' It just
property like 15,000 square feet. Thatrs out flat'
, oioo"rtv a lot smaller. The affected use of that
=*lifl.. when r look at that and the whole area in
area, I just see it's way out of context'
Erhart: Referring to your comment, how do you make bhe. conversion
from a large lot irea io a small lot, I think for one thing streets
are Iines. A subdivision across the street could be 15,000 square
feet where as one on one side. That's a natural line' The other one
i;-t.; could write it such that it might make a statement to say that
if. 5az of the Iots adjacent to a subdivision are over 26,649 square
i..i, -tt"" the subdivision should be 20,666 and saying 20,Ogg being a
half'acre, that's the largest. wh?! that does, of course, if you have
o"" u... ind they're all ovet 26,066 and the next one, if you have
5r?, ia oniy takLs two sets to get do$'n to the smaller one' rt does
iso' t us e ful
I think it makes
lot is a lot
that immed iate
(
Conrad: They've got bigger ateas to work with.
Erhart: Yes, but they've got more at stake too because they have a
longer term time at selling these lots. Anyvray, in summary I would
agree that I think if there is something we can do, I thinl< we ought
to look at it and we ought tc ask staff to come back with some ideas.
Conrad: If there's something they can do about the orCinance?
Erhart: The ord ioance, yes.
conrad: It doesn't apply to the comments. we will direct to staff
because thatrs a real pet issue of nrine and I have noE got any
solutions to that because I think if we remember on the Murray Hill
where we rip out. one house and put a driveway in and vrer ve got people
who lived there for L,666 years and then they're putting ia L5,OOO
square foot houses in areas where they're 45,006 sqoaxe foot 1ots. I
felt real badly in that case but \,re didn't have a solution. Anyway, I
think we should look at it but thatrs a different time and place. In
terms of driveway access off of Minnewashta, try to give us some
guidelines. staff is saying, regardless of cur subdivision ordinance,
it is okay to put in two driveways or an additional driveway and wervejustified that how?
Olsen: The way vre've justified it is that we really did not see any
other option. We feLt that one additional drivelay lras acceptable.
It does have good sight distance. The appLicant originally could have
come in with five driveways and of course it wouldnrt l'ta ve gotten
approved but by having just one public street, like Tin was suggesting
that cul-Ce-sac in there, is almost by itself the whole Property.
Erhart: why do you say that?
Olsen: If you draw in a cul-de-sac, Iimitiog it to probably about
three lots. Yourre talking about 50 foot right-of-way and a very
large cul-de-sac. We did work closely with the engineering department
on vrhat lrere our options with this and we felt that this was an
acceptable option.
Emmings: Did you look at putting in a cul-de-sac and getting four
lots?
give you a way to gradually go from the large lots to big lots' So
igain-, you'd have to think this through but the idea of sornehow
rneasuring the lots so if half of them were under 2g,0gg square feet'
then it wouldntt collide. I think you might vrant to try some exatnples
and it might solve the Problem. Just to summarize quickly, I think it
has been i problem here in the last year where we have been forced to
put io sma11 subdivisions, or smaII lot subdivisions actually. Itts
lh" bigg"r subdivisions that have come in vrith the 2g,gqfr square foot
Iots which you really have to think about why that is. It's telling
me that the big subCividers are doing a better job of putting together
neighborhoods. They're more conscientious about it.
OIsen:
have to
We looked
have it's Lot 5in the
cu1-de-sac a longacces.s. A street aga in would stiIlmiddle of here,
at a
own
here.right
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 2q, 1988 - Page 12
t
Planning Commission Meet irrg
January ?-q, L988 - Page 13
it would <lo what the neighbors wanted, it would limit it one
additional 1ot or t$ro additional Lots.
Erhart: How rv ide was your il r i veway?
itrs probably on ly,
Hor., wide is
as shown on
the driveway then?
there, itrs about 10OIsen: I bel ieve
to 2A feet maybe.
HeadIa: This is another situation
cul-de-sac road and itrs serving 5
about this before, it just doesn't
go in there with a lot lower class
think so Tim?
though, ne wanted to go a class A
houses or 4 houses. We talked
seem right. They should be able
road or cul-de-sac. You don't
to
Erhart: The price of the lots would go up with a cul-de-sac. The
value of the lots.
Olsen: We did not look at an internal street coming from the Parkway.
i.Ie could do that and come back anC have a proposed PIan for that. If
you want to see hovJ the site could be serviced by a public street
other than utilizing a private road. I got the impression that lrou
were Ealking about a cul-tle-sac.
Erhart: Let me finish trhat I'm thinking. I may be all wroog but I
looked at the dinensional drawings in here and I jusL can not see why
you cantt put in just a real short street in here and a cu1-de-sac and
hhey can .orovide an easement to go through that property sc at some
Iat,:r date if sornebody else wants to hooks into that, aE the end of
that street like we do with a lot of cul-de-sacs.
Conrad: You're saying, to service the proPerty to the east?
Erhart: At some -coint, it coultl be.
olsen: Ideally, we initially tooked at approving that private
easement. At this time. . .
Erhart: Thatrs not the right place. I don't think that's the right
place and Dave trould agree that's not the right place.
Headla: WeIl, I kind oll like that idea.
Erhart: From the n o rth?
Headla: Thereis a main driveway there right now and if they could do
something, work off of that and then the other driveway, then I think
it's a won-won situation. r think the applicant can come off well
without spending a lot of money but the surrounding area isn't going
to lose either. It's going to require negoEiation with the neighbors.
Earl Heatherington: I{e were curious as to would the surrounding lots
be assessed to turn that into a gublic road? A private road is behind
there now. If that was upgraded to a public street cul-de-sac, what
woulcl the assessments be on our lots...
ElIie Schr.raba: I conrt think the road or existing private drive back
\
Planning Cornmiss ion Meet ing
January 20, L988 - Page 14
there would be workable. The property ovrners are adverse to it and
erould not cooperate rrith us so that gave us the only alternative which
was the two driveways off of Minnewashta Parl(way. We dj.d look
originally rrith our surveyor putting in a cul-de-sac. vlhat happens
then is we lose so nuch land for building a cul-de-sac, we lessen the
Iot size and consequently r.ve lose the number of lots that werre tryingto accomplish and in doing so, the whole basis of the purchase ofproperty, we're buying this property now subject to our lot division.
I'Ie're feeling that based on our initial cost and the cost that we haveincurred thus far, if we have to lose one lot, we basically would haveto dump the whole project because it just doesn't make any sense inthis situation where it's so conveniently located to Minnewashta
Parklray, to have to put in an expensive cul-de-sac. One thing toothat I wanted to mention is our intention is not to put in inexpensive
homes just because these lots are not half acre. Our intention is tobuild houses in the sane price range as the houses in the surroundingarea. As a matter of fact werve got a plan right now that hre're
working on to put a home on Lot 5. A buyer has looked at it and isinterested in Lot 5 which they felt was the most attractive lots. And
when we were working with the surveyors, they located that housebeautifully on that lot and it $roul-d be a house in the price range ofthe other homes in the area. So we did look at alternatives but wefelt these are what would work...
Conrad: As you can tell, one thing we look at is future subdivisionsalso and the tendency is to take a look at one thing at a time andpretty soon you really chop up a neighborhood and if itrs not
integrateal . Not that the neighbors vrant to subdivide because a lot offolks moved out here because they liked their large lots, but we findthat over time a lot of people do subdivide and sell off and that's
one of the points the Planning Commission is hopefully, we can look
ahead a little bit and anticipate some of those cases and nake surethat we can service anybody that -yrants to subdivide and we do it sothat if there is some kind aesthetic, sone kind of continuity to the
neighborhood without realty being totally chopped up.
Jim Borchart: We asked an expert on condemnation when they ap.oroached
me and I showed them my land, I gave them auditor tax statements and
we projected ahead for 15 years which would be the normal length Iwould Iive there, and he said an easement would have to bring at least$zll,ggg.00 fox the amount. of Iand theyrre taking and he advised meagainst selling an easement at that amount. He said I would lose inthe long run because of the value of my house. So we're looking at atremendous amount of money for a cul-Ce-sac. He said it would be verybad. I have a large house. It's about 6rgTg sqoare feet no$r. ff youcut off that and the size of the house it would be diastrous. And heworked off a tax statement not off of
any other paper.
Emmings: I guess Irm just wondering, it seems to me, one of thepoiots Tim raised is the fact that it would appear that it requires avariance to tbe subdivision ordinance as far as the driveways areconcerneC and I don't know if you're ready to make the case for thatvariance. Maybe we ought to look at this again.
Conrad: Can you clarify where yourre looking at for a variance?
i
t
(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 20, L988 - Page 15
Emmings: Under the applicabte regulations in the second paragraph,the Subdivision Ordinance Section L2,6.I2 states there shall be nodirect vehicular or pedestrian access from individual lots tocollectors, arterials or limited access highways.
Batzli: Is tl'rere access in this case from an individual lot?
Emmings: It's all one lot right nov, and there is one which isprobably grandfathered in. I don,t know rdhy $re have that ordinance.It seems to me it prevents an awful lot of access. I was surprised tosee it there but it is there but it is there and wetve got to dealwith it. Right now we have the case here for \.rhat the hardship is andI wonder is we we shouldn't take a look at that.
Conrad: So Steve, what vrould you like? you,d like to have staff lookat other ways of treatiog this property? From a one access
standpo int?
Emmings: Yes, look at the alternatives. Llumber one, could it be aone access property and hor., could that be arranged and if theapplicant isn't happy with that, what case can be rnade for giving tl.lema variance and making it a t$ro or more access property. Whatj ust i f icat ion is there?
Conrad: Do you think you're going to, you reviewed this.
Dacy: I think the tabling inotion idea vrould be in order and if tcould suggest to the Conmission that they suggest that the developercould note an alternate plan to create a sma]I public street in thereand then bring that back to us for staff to evaluate and then i.re canbring iE back to the Comnission as Option #2. ?hen the Commissionwill have two options to evaluate.
Headla: Would we have Lo insist
Right-of-way? That sounds airful
on a 50 foot roacl though?high for those few lots.
Dacy: WelI, yes you vrould. 50 foot of right-of-way, 20 feet widebituminous with concrete curb and 50 foot radius on the cul-de-sac.If you want to reduce that, theo you're talking about another varianceto the subdivision o rd inance.
Batzli: Irm not convinced yet that the tanguage in this Section 12restricts it to haviog one lot for the entire subdivision. At firstf1ush, I read this as saying thaL 1rqLl can not have individual lots
having. access to the collector and not only one driveway for theentire proposed subdivision. I read it as you can,E pu-t a rlrive.*ay infcr each proposed subdivided Lot.
Olsen: The way we typically have interpretted this is to preventindividual access onto like the collectors or the arterials.
Emmings: Then you're saying no variance is requi red ?
not feel that aolsen: In i,rriting the staf f report, I did
was necessary because they were combioing
variance
into onedri veways. Three
(
Planning Commission MeeEing
January 29, 1988 - Page L6
Criveway and trro offinterpretation.of that other driveway. It,s up to
Batzli: It really tlepends on when yourre looking at the individualaccess. Before or after the subdivisioo occurs. That's certainly thedeciding factor of rdhether l/ou need one individual driveway for theentire proposed subdivision as long as you don't have individual onesafter the subdivision.
Olsen: It says individual lots.
Batzli: Which seems to me to read after the subdivision has occurred.
Headla: I donrt know if you're familiar irith that area but goingnorth from there, therers the one by where the tree is and then thenext one is about a couple hundred feet and then another 90 feettherers a driveway, then about I0O feet there's the Maple Ridgedriveway, at the top of the hill you've got another driveway and about60 feet f ro:n there you have Mann's driveway. Nor^, $re're loading inanother driveway. They're just too close. Last meeting we werecomplaining about the Lareson property, we tried to reduce the numberof driveways on Minnewashta parkway. I think werre inconsistent. Ifwe're serious about reducing the number of driveways, let's reduce thenu:nber of dr i veways .
Conrad: Staff feels that
dangerous.
another driveway however, is not necessarily
Olsen: This one I think has good sight distance. It's preferred overthe existing driveway. In terxns of meeting the ordinance they couldcome in with five lots. With four additional Iots with just oneadditional driveway, I guess Lre felt thaL that lras as good as couldbe.
Conrad: I readcul-de-sac plan
that you
for us?
would rather not go back and prepare a
Kevin Winchell: I just don,E think it will work.
Ellie Schwaba: we pursued that initially and it didnrt work becauselike rde were saying, werd have to ask foi a variance.
Erhart moved, Headla seconded to table Subdivision Request *gg_1the City Planner's suggestions and bring it back to look at someof aLternative to bring. the access to Minnewashta parkuray to one.This rnotion was later withdrawn.
per
k ind
Ellie Schwaba: what I was going to say was, if lre were to put in aroad in there, then te would need a variance because then we would notmeet the lot size requirements. Then we'd need a variance for thelots so anything we do other than these two driveways creates ushaving to request a variance. Based on our discussion with the CityEngineer and Jo Ann, we didnrt have any variances. we werenttrequesting a variance so we would prefer, if we can, of having to putourselves in the position of having to ask for a variance, and complywith the ord inance.
L
\
Planning Commission i,teet ingJanuary 29, 1988 - page t7
Headla: Can I ask
Conrad: Regard ing
a question to the applicants?
the motion?
Headla: Yes . Now
approve it or deny
table it and review it or weit would go to the Council.
weir can
a o(l
could e i ther
Elliw Schrraba: We would rather have you approve it or deny it and goto the council- simpry because we have pursuLd this anc arr we're doingis wasting time. Because r don't knord what we'd go back and do. Terlthe surveyors to redraw the. plan and put us in a iosition-oi askingfor a variance and come back to see you with u lruiiu.r"a. we aon,tfeel we'd be going forward $rith this:
conrad: rn my mind the onry thing we courd do is we either say thereis one access or there can be more than orre. Thatrs the issue thatwe're Iooking at. If we feel there can only be on" u"a""", we,regoing to turn it doi{n and they'd wercoine thit so they couia go to theCity Council with this thing.
Headla: From erhat r hear, theyrd rather see approval 0r deniar and goto the Counci I.
Erhart: Ir II withdraw my motion.
Conrad:
Head 1a :
Do you withdrasr your second?
Yes .
Headla moved, Erhart..seconded to deny the Subdivision #gg_l as shownon the plat stamped t'Received January 4, 19gg".
Dacy: Mr. chairmanr. regarding your comment on consistency betqreen theapplication that we had further embarkerl on Minnewasrrta e'artway,r just wanted to make sure that there is a <iiffereniiution-in tnutthis property, it's onry means of access is from ni""""."iit. parkwayand the additional driveway r,rould only serve tlro homes. Theapplication that we're 100king at farther north, we were taixing atoutmajor stree intersections that hrould take traffic from othersubdivisions of 2g to 3g or more rots. so when Jo Ann was-larxingearrier about the additional.one driveway, it was u"".a on ttre ractthat that wourd onry be serving two i'romei and that tire otheialternatives that we had rooked at courd not be impremeniaJ. tnutbeing the arternative-to rhe. rear. r just wanted i. ;i;;i;; thar fromthe application we had last time.
Headla: But you made an issue that bythat one easement, that you got rid o.fmentioned that you were trying to get
Dacy: I agree. I'm not changing thatI{e sa$, this as generating less amountproposed in the other application.
putting in the mainthe other d r i vewayrid of driveways on
intent at all.of traffic than
road u.o
and you
the Parkway.
just say i ngintersect ion
I rm
the
Headla: I think it,s possible for Lots l and 2 maybe to go to that
Planning Comrniss ion Meet ing
January 29, L988 - Page 18
C driveway to the no rth.
Dacy: I just wanted to follow up on that.
I think there are alternatives yet, thatrs wity I made that
conrad:only be
So
one
your motion is to deny on the rationale that there should
access.
Headla: Let's not i ncrea s e
Head la :
motion.
Conrad: And thatrs the same
second in the mot ion?
Kevin winchell: why? Doesto bave a road? Instead ofother . . .
to Minnewashta Parkvray.
?im that yourre using on the
the access
rationale
Erhart: Yes.
Emmings: I guess the more I sit here and listen to $rhat staff's got
to say and I think Brianrs reading of the subdivision ordinance isprobably right. I thi:k my problem is I don't like the subdivision
and Irm trying to find a way to rationalize turning it down but Ithink it probably does meet the letter of the ordinances here and I
tlon' t think we can turn it down. On a rational basis anyr.ray.
Headla: All we're doing is making a recomnendation to the CounciI.
Conrad: Yes, that's all. They can take this.
Headla: And Ird like to send them a signa}, no.
Headla moved, Erhart seconded to deny the Subdivision #88-1 as shown
on the plat stamped "Received January 4, 1988". Headla, Erhart andEllsoo voted in favor of the motion, Emmings, Conrad and Batzli votedin opposition to the motion and motion failed with a tie vote.
Conrad: So this is a 3-3 split and this is a rilotion to deny. ItfaiIs.
Erhart: For the sake of the Council, at least these things are betterto be moved for approval because it woulC be rnore useful for the
negative comments. Because no$, what you have to do is provide the
pos itive comments.
Conrad: But the motion did fai1. Is there another motion?
Erhart: Thatrs just a vraste of time.
Kevin winchell: I don't see erhy we couldnrt set this up so all fivelots access onto the Parkway through the existing driveway or cLose tothe exisE ing driveway.
olsen: Then it would have to be a road.
the ordinance say for five homes you havehaving three on one and two on the
t
-(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, 1988 - page 19
Conrad: I don't think werll make it that $ray.
Kevin Winchell: It looks Iike havingthe most reasonable thing to me. yo,l
and you canrt go to the itreet.
just
can't d r i vewayprivateone
go
is
off
going to bethe back
Dacy: The motion from the Commission failed andthe applicant betereen now and the Council neetingother alternatives ava i 1able.
staff wi l1to see if work rrith
there are
Conrad: Werve never had this situation rvhere we had this.
Dacy: It did happen once before at TH 7 and TH 4l three years ago.
OLsen: In the staff update, I usually pass on any comments.
conrad: r think from Robert's Rures of oraer, we can carry this forthto city councir. we've conducted the-puuii.-i""iiii. "iiirerunni.,g
Commission didn't really have a motion'on it. There $ras no oneconsensus.
Dacy: The notion
Conrad: But that
failed.
automatically say il r.ras approved.
it to the City Council withor:t a
to deny
doesn I t
to s endJay Johnson: Move
recomxnendation.
Conrad: Thatrs a good idea, thanks.
Batzli moved, Emmings secondedrecomnendation on Subrlivisioncarried.
tnat the planning Cornmission sen<is no#88-I. A]1 voted in favor and motioo
Conrad: I do believe that ourI donrt think we need to repeatfeels real opinionated. Oave,this to save the tree?
comments were pretty clear in terms of'rny we !'oted as we did unless sornebodvdo you want to put a footnote in ;;---'
Headla: The tree is mandatory. ftrs one of the top 3g trees.
Ellie Schwaba: We always wanted the tree.
Headla: I can see why you want it. Werve got to get to some otherpeople to realize the trees got to stay theie.
NANCY LEE AND PATRICK BtOOD, PROPERTY LOCATED oN THE NORTH SIDE oF TH212 AND EAST SIDE OF TH TOl; ZONED BE" FRINGE BUSINESS DISTRICT:
A. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CONTRACTOR' S YARD ON 13 ACRES.
B. WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A DRIVEWAY THROUGH ACLASS A WETLAND.
Public present:
(
Planning Comrni ss i on Meeting
January 2A, ]-98g - page 2A
Nancy LeePatrick B lood
Jim Sel lerudeArt Pa rt r idge
App I i cant
App 1i can E
730 Vogelsberg Road
5280 Hummingbird Road
r
Patrick Blood: Just one thing I'd like to bring up. A lot of peoplethink contractor I s yards and garbage trucks and stuff like this. f aowant to make one simple point. Our company is tending to go to thesmaller garbage trucks for customers with road restrictions and stufflike this so a majorit], of our trucks will be not rnore than I l/2 to 2ton trucks with a 5 yard packers...
Jim Sellerude, 730 Vogelsberg Trail: I live at this location here andI donrt have any problems with garbage trucks in our neighborhood,they come through a1I the time so f don't have any concern about that.
My thought is that as the business fringe area, that you designatedthis, it seems an appropriate time to take a look at the frontageissues along here. ?he State says right now you can't have accesshere because they purcirased this. My question to staff initially r.ras,if this application be granted, to enter on the TH 2t2 over heresornewhere. Right no.d l.re're getting a prolif eration of an increaseCdensities of uses on here. The present routing of traffic on here,therers a no stop, access a),I along here and I think we're gettingindividual cars pulling out along here and it's becoming morehazardous. The St.ate doesnrt see( E.o be taking a lead on it. I thinkas a business fringe development, this really should be oriented to ?H
2L2 and I understand they donrt want it coming on off the triangle butI think all these uses should be collected somewhere in here and havea more limited access. I know youtre just looking at one part. It
seems to have an easy solution to come off here but if you keepdealing with individual parcels, as they have conditional useapplications, you're never going to look at the problem, the overallproblem. I think the Planning Commisison is the right place to beginthat discussion. This is just going to be an emorphous development
and this is one the gateways to Chanhassen. What do you r{ant it tolook like? How do you r.rant that traffic handled? As TH 2I2 comesthrough to the north, you're going to have more traffic coming off of
TH I0l and I donrt know when r+e'lI have an intersection rrith \H 2-12but this sort of has a residential character on TH 101 right novr. Butas uses continue !o iacrease, maybe ilts 2q years off but there willprobably be a light rail transit station at this point. If the Countypicks up the line someday in the future, this is a key point wheretraffic is coming together. I think itrs an important time to take aIook all of that access issue and I think these people could bedirectedr I think their origioal intent on the application r.ras to corieacross here and it seems that it,s an appropriate way to go. fn termsof MnDot giving their approval for an access over here, they'll giveapproval anyerhere. They pass it off to the City. They say, if yougive a permit, they're forced to give a permit. They gave a permitfor access over here, If someone uras goinq to develop this land anditrs an outlot right. now that I own wiEh afioEher parti, ana the ltnOotsaid they'd give access there and they said they,rl give an access here
L
Barbara Dacy presented the staff Report on the conditionar use permit
and Wet l-and Alteration permit.
Planning Comrniss ion Meet ingJanuary 2A, L988 - page 2l
Headla noved, Emmings seconded tofavor and motion ca rr ied.
for this lot. Because MnDot has some access requirements, f donrtthink that,s... As an interim solution, I think access could begranted here for a period of years but i don,t know if that,s a legalway. of operating but permit access here that expires utt"i-. certainperiod of years and then direct a solution over- this way. iut notlooking at your ordinance to see how you're able to aeai-wiin tneissue but r think this piecemeat fashionr fourre never rearry going totake a look at this entrance to your city -here. e.oli.- ri.- comi nginto chanhassen for arl sorts of- reasons and here this is known as anotorious entrance to the City.
Conrad: you have sone good comments. Mark, when you looked at the TH169 corridor, as ere are rooking at that, those typ-es oi-conc".ns tt,egentleman brought up, do you feeJ..they shoutd u"'iurso.a-ln-our stuayor do they feer because we're trying io deemphasi;; t;i; aiea ttratthey not be purs ued ?
Mark Koegler: He brou?ht. up a couple good comments. Eirst of all, onyour second statement in terms of deemlhasizing the'a...1-in.tstrictly is the approach the comp plan is taking 'oecause'that,s whatin essence the Metropor-itan countir is joing t.'u"-i..r.ing"?o.. Thedocument as a whole;itl not U" .*l..""ing the issue of expandingbusiness fringe operations. wheth-er contractor's yards is'necessarilyjeopardizing that or not. I.ie believe it's a revel of low enoughintensity but.in general the thinking is not to make that area moreintensive- Kind of stepping on yout-first comment, the comfrehensivePlan and even these corrir'loi stu-dies are generaL information.Particurarly the plan the corridor studi.eJ does is ," oiinq"it down toa higher level of detail... Itrs more looking at a Iittle more detailand access issues. If you don't desire that ,ir"f, J"iuii, -ii"
certainry would be appropriate to handle it veruariy:--;;";'" poricytype statenent - How do you think we shourd tranaie itr.tl-iig;,t r" ubetter approach.
Headla: How
here, two ?
close .cublic heariag. AII voted in
many people did you say were going to be here? Work
Dacy: Yes.
HeadIa: I
correct or
was und er
not?
the impression that you stated tr^ro. Was that
Nancy Lee: That would be people in Ehe office.
Headla: I see you've gotroom, of f ice area, luncl.Imore than t$ro people.
a pri vate office, waitingroom. It sounds like it,s room,
going
reception
to be a lotT
Nancy Lee: That wouldthe morning, get thei rwith thei r t rucks.
the office. The dr i versroutes and then check in
would check inin the even i ng
be in
t ruck
Headla: Hov, many would occupy the building? you,ve got erhat , 4,00A
-(
(
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 2A, L988 - page 22
square foot building?
llancy Lee: 3 ,5AA .
Headla: And how many people would be there permanent in the building?
Nancy Lee: Presentry it's between r and r L/2. you,re talking furrtime personnel, itrs between 1, and l/2 right now. There,s alwiyssomebody in the of f ice.
Headla: ft seems like a big building. you,ve got concrete walls,lunchroom and everything and only tr{ro people. It just doesn't seemconsistent. I'm looking at this, this is a businels fringe place. Itseems to meet alr the requirements but if soneone was to take the sameplan and the same promise and put it up somewhere on TH 5 or TH 101,why can't they go for a variance and get the same thing approved?I donrt know if I'm for or against it yet but that's the kind of thingand I want to hear your questions just to see how you look at it.
Batzli: The:/ don't need a variance for a contractorrs yard.
HeadIa: Whatrs the definition of a contractor's yard?
f Dacy: A contractor's yard is a use or an area where there is\ construction equipment stored on the site on an overnight basis orother type of contractor's equipment stored either within the buildingor outside of the building. That you have continuous overnigirtstorage. People come to the site, as in this case, the employees cometo the site. They pick up the Criver of the garbage truck comes andparks his car, he gets into his truck, he leaves the site, he doesoperaEions off site, comes back at the end of the day and drcps offthe truck, gets in his car and goes home. What the applicant isindicaEing tonight that there vrould be 1to 2 employees staying in theoffice area to handle phone calIs, dispatch, etc..
Headla: By this you're sayingthe street?\rre aren I t ha'/ing people dropping of f
Dacy: Right, no. This is not a retail business.
Headla: Why do you have ablock here and a nice door
off i ce.
reception office? If you have aand then you have this reception
concrete
and an
Patrick Blood: We put ththere, the plans when theto be used. We put it inwith their nee, mandates o
roeet ings if these occur.but the room was there ansmall- offices or just useroorn, that was just the win the future of possiblythe only reason t'hat's t-h
e conference room and reception office iny i.rere first drawn up, the rooms were therethere for future use, for City Council'sn garbage pick-up and just an office for
We donrt even know if they're going to occurd rather than Civide it up it:to a bunch ofthem for storage rather than a conferenceay $re put it up with the possible intentionshaving conferences with people and that'sere.
i{eadla: If trucks coming south on TH lot turn east, can they go due
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 29, 1988 - page 23
eas t
come
and do into the
back and make a
Head 1a :
thought
Dacy: No, that was
Hor.rever, MnDot camebe eJ.igible because
212.
HeadIa: I agree with10I, that bothers me.
driveway or
1e ft ?
do they have to drop down to turn and
Dacy: Okay, you're saying vrhen the trucks come southunder the tracks, to get into the site they'd have tothe site and the driveway is proposed on TH IgI.
of TH 161turn lef t
and
into
go
I thought we were talking on TH 2I2. Boy, I missed that. Iwe were going to try and get it onto TH 212.
an original consideration by the applicants.back and said that an access to TH 212 wouldthey have purchased the access rights a).ong
not
TH
Head1a: Okay, I vras under thethey would look at it and they2).2. Thatrs not the case?
irnpress ion then, tostand a good chance
make applicationto get it on TH
Dacy: Right. The app l icantthe problem is, MnDot is not
would have to buy those rightsgoing to sell it to then.
back and
everything you say but now that access on TH
Headla: Coming out onto TH 1gl, boy thatrs tough.
Dacy: werve tarked about contractor's yards a r.ot in the rast coupleof rnooths and that'is been primariry in itre A-2 and ug.i"urirr.r areas.rhis area is zoned commerc-ia1. r iuess if there i" ;;-;;;;;re of hor,,a contractor's yard should be done, r think this is .n .*""ir.ntexample. you, ve got a concrete block building, p.;J -.;;;;l
bermi.rg,landscaping. some of the sarne issues that the coru,nission has beentarkinq about and del)ating on whether or not these are-appioprrate inthe agricultural areas.
D3"yr rt'!s agreed. r don'|t think there,s any question that it is notthe best. However, given the 1ow intensity of [r,i=-u"u, u"tr.en 4 tot2 trucks enrering and reaving with rheir i. r o,. iv -J i i""[ i on i" -;oi.;-
south on TH 101 to TH 2 12 . rhen the other issue.'s of this part of thesite rearry screens that use the best. If you move it over to theeast, it's a wide open view from TH 2L2 and it reairy-cJn't takeadvantage of the grades and elevations.
Headla: r thought there was a possibirity that they courd go to theeast. Wasnrt there a service road there?
?::I: If they gig. y:tt ro propose thar, then you,re fightins rherssue of more visibility of the contractor,s yird from ia ZL2. They\- would have to reorient"'tt,. ""ptic"Jy.tem sites and so on. rf r courdcomment on the qentleman's comment about the rroniage-road, as r noted::^,an:^.:q?.r, Lh"t,s.n "*".il"nt ia". and if rhe Cornmission r,rouldwant to add a condition whereby if bhis property i"-.rlJrura"a, [natthat subdi vis ion appl icat ion iir..i". rigli-'oi-r.,iy-ioi-li.roating afrontage road to be- constructed. aut a{ain, o"i'att"rney tetrs usthat we can onlv require risht-of-wav ir it,= d;.;;;-;;l e,,xa;,ici^-
-(
Planning Commission Meet ingJanuary 29, 1988 - page 24
(
application and not a conditionar use permit but the frontage roadconcept is excellent and that should bL pursued.
Headla:
but how
5 yea rs ?
I hear you
do we know,
the traf f icthere anyway
say
is coming and going and itrs minimalwe can control that in 4 years or
Dacy: One of the conditions containedthe amount of vehicles to 12 vehicles.would require a conditional use permit
would be able to determine whether orimpact on TH Ig1.
in the staff report is to limitAnything above and beyond thattherefore at that time the Citynot that would be an adverse
Batzli: I guess Itd like to talk about the wetlands issuehere and the holding tank requirement. They receive $rastethe garage area from washing. yourre plann-ing on requiringprior to issuing building permits for lhe pumfing of thosetan ks ?
a minute
water froma contract
hold ing
conditionalyou going to
Dacy: Right.
Batzli: Is there anyway we can somehow rnake the continuedr use contingent upon receiving
L require this person Eo get an
additional contracts or areeternal contract upfront?
Dacy: I see $rhat yourre saying.
Ehe r,rording in the condition thatregular basis.
That might be a good idea to changethe pumping should be done on a
Batzli: Yes. I guess I'm looking for soraething noreIines. I li.ke the coocept that they have a contractalso like there to be a continuing obligation.
Ellson: r noticed you didn't have that 26. I had that as a questionnyself but you caught that yourself. r like tire irlea of thaE frontageroad but yourre saying ere can,t ,:o that at this point though and Iguess I r.ras a little confused as to the reasoning behin<i that.
Dacy: The subdivision laws are different than the laws enablingmuniciparities to review conditional use permits. The subdivisionlaws created by the state enable cities to require road right-of-ways
319 to require things like parking dedication requirementsl the CityAttorney says that the conditionar use permit apalication, you,re oniyrooking at whether or not that use is cocrpatible-with adjacint uses inthat district. We can not require right-of-way dedicati6n along r,ritha conditional use permit. you can only do thal during the subdivisionapp 1i cat ion.
( EIIson: A1so, I had a question,- morning and they take a truck.go out again or do they stay out
along those
u.of ront but I'd
Nancy Lee: They come back at noon and
has nothing to
you said the people come in theDo they come back for lunch and thenall day long and then they come back?
then leave.
do with it but I rdasEl1son: This probably
whrr
^^
rr^,r L,-.,^ -^?^ i ^
wonder i ng
-(
Planning Commission l,teet ing
January 26, L988 - Page 25
things like that? what kind of seasonal that makes that happen?
Nancy Lee: It was switched. lle would have more containers. Thecontainers vre're talking about are the containers used at constructionsites and itrs the rrintertime that rre may have some. we don't like tohave them io but when construction goes iown, the containers aren,t onthe site. In the summertime there shouldn,t be any there.
Ellson: Thatrs all I had.
Emmings: I don,t have anything additional.
Erhart: r donrt know where to start but r'rl take the opportunity tosay what r have to say about contractorrs yards in chanhiisen. r wasvery much invorved in our zoning ordinance. That was a major projectwe had \,rhen I first joined the planning Comrnission. I sp"ni a 1ot oftime on it including sitting through with the council eirery night thatthey $rent over it and approved it. There are t$ro ner,, membLrs here,there's a lot of it that goes over your head when your first on theplanning commission. rrve had thro years to refrecl on some of theseissues and one of them is this cont;actorrs yarils. At the time rdidnrt oppose contractor yards in the city o? chanhassen. r shouldsay in the rural area of Chanhassen becauie I really didnrt yetunderstand how they relate to that area. Today r flrmed up iry mindquite coocretely on the issue and r strongly rilieve that ihey have noplace in the rural area of Chanhassen, whicfr f ,.m the only personeither on the councir or cominission that represents that area. one isthat they have nothing to do with agricurtuie which is the existingrand use in the area. so r berieve Ehey are iacompatible wittr that.secondly, is- the agricurtural area, the A-2 area i-n chanhassen issupposed to be reserved and alrowed to increase itrs residential usein a planned method. Again, contractor's yards has no compatiuiritywith residentiar use. Lastry, r think in !articurar, crranirassen doesnot have the road system to support the ki;it of truci triiii" that,sassociated r,rith ccntractor's.yards and garbage hauling. earticular:-yTH 191- which gets us to this particurar proposar and arso intoanother issue that r think a r.ot of, when we made the new zoningordinance, created the new zoning or(linance, a rot of discussionrevorved around this business, fringe district which r think youopposed completely Ladal , at the time. I think, if I,m right, I thinkyou did, I would agree that we made a second mistake ther5. But Ithink we perhaps will get into that in a rittle bit in the <liscussionlater on when we talk about corridor studies and plans. rt really hitme today, this is the first time that r read anypiace where the actuall'tnDot has gone out of their way to restrict acceis along TH 212 inthat area. Now had that been known when we put this nei zoningordinance in effect, r think that would have had a big impact about
!]rg "uv the pranning commission and perhaps the citv couni,ii viewedthis area down there._ In. fact, the way I interpretiea tnai, they saythis is essentially 55 mph roadway. r live thele so r know'wtrat's itiik". rt is dangerous to turn on and off that .na "eitai"iy rn r0r inthat area is no place to be promoting increased use by some'commercialactivity. f canrt imagine why we *ould 9o through heie and allow acomrnercial activity where you have trucki coming-unde.n"iitr tnuttai-Iroad bridge. rt's ridicurous just for automobiles to travel inboth directions under that bridge.- one has to "top u.roi. ihe other
(
Planning Commission l{eet i ng
January 2A, L988 - Page 26
one goes through. Lastly, again, you're dealing with this holdingtank situation and r'rn sure that everyone has arL good intentions tornake sure that nothing gets tlrained over into the creek but again, andI donrt agree with the Met Council often but in this case, they'reright in not planning for sewer in this area. In the first plice,itrs below the level of ,nost sewer lines in the southvrest area.Everything would have to be pumped up. I just think adding a holdingtank ia an operation where trucks are washed, yourre adding anoperation rdhere there's a lot of water use. I'm interpretiing thisfrom the business and I may be wrong on that. Lastly, I guess just tocompliment my first comment, Eden prairie doesnrt allor{ cootractorrsyards and I do believe we do have a place in the City for contractorrsyards donrt i{e?
Dacy: We have a number of contractor's yards located in the A-2District.
Erhart: I understand that.
Dacy: I'm sorry, whatrs your question?
Dacy: Yes,
Erhart: We
contractor I s
in the Iodustrial Park.i
do have a place for the. Eden Prairie doesntt allowyards in their rural areas.
Erhart: A fanily business. So I think
when we get to the corridor study but I
about contractor's yards as they relate
Irm against it.
r have a r,rhole lotthink those are myto this particular
more to say
commen tsproposal.
Conrad: You're aga instperiod so regardless of
ant i -con t ra cto r I s yarCs ?
because yourre against contractorrs yards
they could have proposed, yourre justEhis
wha t
Erhart: Let me state that.yard that comes before me.thing and that bridge.
vote aga inst any contractor'sin particular with the T:{ 101
I woul,l
This one
Conrad: Because of traffic and because of access. Thatrs where I wasgoing too. It is a problem \.rith a vehicle that,s a littte bit largerqoing under the bridge. Now I'm sure the applicant has said mosttraffic will be routed south and out of there, but I guess I vrould notsee the north route would be aceeptable anytime. people going up thebilf. We don't restrict, rrhat are the restrictions on the trucktraffic in tbat area? Are there any?
Headla: If they can get through the bridge, it's okay.
Erhart: we do have places in the zoning ordinance that do allow newcontractor's yards besides the A-2 District.
Dacy: ttost of the communities in the metroplitan area don't allowcontractor's yards in the rural area except as a small, I guess I
would call them a ma and pa operation.
t
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, 1988 - page 27
Conrad: When we d i rectedtraffic be routed certa incontrol that.
truck traffic toways but there's
Dacy: TH 101 is used a lot right now. !{aybe to give you analternative to rook at, anothei access alternative $rould have to bethat from the east there is a separate property betereen theappJ'icant's property and the cot-d storaie and warehouse site which isright here. There was a suggestion made, could they tie into thedriveway. That vras approve- for the colir storag"
"i,a
-"","'r,ius e site.They would have to obtain an easenent from this p, i""t. -p iop"rtyowner. whether or not they w-ould get it,- would Le up to that propertyovrner. So it comes down to.the ci[y weighing ""u.rui tiaje]orfs. youcan either timit the intensity of t-he use onto TH r01 to r0 vehicres,12 vehicres, whatever or you can look at trying to t.u.-tt. appricantbyY !!: access rights baci from MnDot. you would look at a moresignificant wetrand alteration p..roi[-to bring the ioaa-irriougtr ttrer"etland area or the other trade off is rocatiig o"" .oi.-in the openare of the site. Itrs one of those cases where one location affectsthe other and then a new issue.rises.- Aesthetics, ".iu.ning, access,*etlands so that wourd be the arternative to what is pi"p"""a in thisapplication.
Merle volk r s,
rea 1 Iy no lray
we asked thatyou can
lyminSs: Even if your access is TH 169, they can still go up TH 1Ol.?hatrs not going to change the numbei oi t.ip" north on TH 101.
conrad: Barbara, your opinion on access, assuming that most routes.most of the time wourd go back to Tlr 169. what'"-youi-ofinion onacce:: coming out onto TH 101? Is that a danger? -r it,iif -ur*o"t
anything on that hill seems dangerous io r". r drove it about threetimes today in the snow and it ias not easy.
Dacy: Eirst of all, that driveway that is there now, that,s obviouslydone for access Eo the farm and E6e
-;iu homestead there. Their accessinto TH.101 is going to have to m"et f,tnOot standards and as noted inthe engineer's report, they have to h;;; . l/ZZ grade fox 5g feet andso on so that driveway locition is going.to be iirproved. - Coing nortton TH 10r so traffic comiog out of [t" 6it. i" g;ing-to -u.-Jur.
to seetraffic coming from the south bette, ,r"r"r" the other way around. Ithink coming south on that,.y"o;i"-i.aiiy blinded ;;ir;-i";!rneaththat. rairroad bridge so agai-n, ttrere;s-nt question that this is notthe best sorution- However, ihere ar" no other viable arternativesfor this propertv to have access t" [ti. site.- a"-i..g-""-ii.intensity of the use is limited to ,f,ut-r= proposed, I think it,sfeas ibIe.
I
Conrad: Couldof paper?
you interpret what Dr. Rockr.rell scribbled on that piece
Dacy: Seasonally floodedhabitat for small rodentsindigenous perching birds.winter.
scrub shurb wetland. Goodspecies of migratory andpheasants and cott6nta i Is
emergent andand various
Refuge for
Conrad: Get down to the recommendation. Keep what?
ln
{
(
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 24, L988 - Page 28
Dacy: When she vrent out to the site, this is when there was aproposal for the driveway across the wetland area. Keep 'ridth ofproposed driveway to mininum. Select area with fewest shrubs.Protect remaining wetland from impacts during construction with siltscreens. No sidecasting.
Conrad: No s idecas t i ng ?
Dacy: Taking the material that is dredged out.
Conrad: Tim. it doesn't appease you that we're in the fringe businessdistrict at aII? It is a zone down there that is kind of commercialin nature yet it cantt be used commercially because of sewer so it,sgot the highway access h,ithout sewer so you kind of look forapplications that don't need high volume off of that. This Looks to
me like a low volume use in a district you're in.
Erhart: What Irm essentially saying is that itrs an agricultural area
and that business fringe area should never have been put in the zoningordinance and that lre shouldn't be allowing new commercial businessesin that whole area because there's no sesrer available. Barb alwaystell me when I ask, there wontt be sewer for 3g years. This is the
one area where I actually believe her on. It could be 50 years. Ithink this is the area that should be, it got started, those
businesses down there died because it's not a good business area. The
restaurantrs not open. It hasn't been for a couple of years. Therers
been a used car lot and thatrs closed.
Conrad: So yourd like to
res ident ia I ?
see it restored to agricultural or
Erhart: I think we ought to just let it fade away.
{
Art Partridge: My question with the MerIe VoIk issue,
SaniEation which is a much bigger operation, you allowis essentially an agricultural area...A tEuck can use
unless there's a weight restriction.
R&I{
that into whata pub l ic high'*ay
Conrad: As you can tell, werre still struggling with contractorrsyards and use of agricultural areas but your comments are well taken.I believe this is a prettl. good use of the area dorrn there. It's a
strange area. It's just a real strange area and I think I wasfighting to get rid of it altogether once ugon a time and I don't knowif I Iost the cause but whatever but I think here's a case where staff
has worked with the applicant to kind of hide the use. It looks likethe applicant has designed something thatrs kind of nice here and Idon't think that set a precedent for any other contractor's yards. Ithink my only concern is the traffic that vre generate like I am with
any contractor's yard. If I think we're putting in 166 trucks or 50trucks, I think that is definitely not the point of the contractorrsyard or what we erant to allow but I think as long as we minimize whatthe applicant does there in terms of traffic generation, I think it,snot a bad use of the land.
Headla: Remember, if he has I0 trucksvehicles entering and leaving everyday.
there, that means yourve got 22
t
(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 2q, L988 - page 2-9
Nancy Lee: I want to correct that. We
Headla: How do the drivers get to your
Ernmi n gs moved, Batzli seconrledapproval of the Conditional Usecontractor I s yard Located northand adjacent to TH 1A1 based on
December 29, L987t, and subject
run one person per truck...
p la ce?
Nancy Lee: They come in their vehicle.
Headla: So if you've got- 19_trucks, yourve got I0 cars, so you, ve got20 vehicres prus t!'ro people in the buitaing,-you,ve got' 22 vehicres.r think that's an avrful 1ot for that partilutir inteiseciion. rrthereis someplace vrith a better rine ot sight, r think it-wourd bemore appropriate but thatrs a rot on ttrat pariicular spot on rn 16r.
Conrad: r think werve sure talked about this. we'lr open it up for amotion. If there is one, if somebody makes a f."oriU f"'- mot io., , rthink there were some comments to be discussed in t".." oi-fumping theholding tank on a regular basis. The staff,s 26th point ani mayne ifsomebody does make a favorable motion, we should re'tiir.ing-.uoutsubdivision and reserving rand for fuiure access but m n6t t"rringyou to make that motion.- -I:* jus saying if you ao go ai"nt with thestaffrs posture, we shourd incorporale iome of these other comments.
that the planning Corrunission recommendPerrnit Reguest #87-IB to operate aof and adjacent to TH 212 and east ofthe site plan stamped "Receivedto the following cond i t ions:
I Hours of operation shall bethrough Saturday only (workpermitted).
from 7 igg a.m.
on Sundays and
to 5:06 p.n.,
holidays not
Mond a y
2
3
There shall be no outside speaker systems.
shielded from adjacent public roadsha 1l beAny light s o urcesright-of-ways.
4. A, holding tank shall be installed to receive the wastethe garage area. -The holding tank shall be pumped asthe appLicant shall be requiied Eo keep a current copypunper contract on file with the City.
5. The building must be sprinl<lered.
water from
r:ecessa ry andof thei r
5 The buiLding must have a heat and smokecentral d i spatch detector system with a
combustible material must befor approva 1.
tighted exit signs must be installed at all exits.
A plan for storage of flammable and/orsubmitted to the public safety office
7
I
L
9. Emergency Iighting must be installed.
(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 20, 1988 - page 30
76. The driveway and
and gutter.parking lot shaIl have surmountable concrete curb
11.
t2.
?he applicant shaII submit a landscaping plan indicatinginstallatioa of 26 six foot evergreen trees between the irehicuLaruse areas and the public right-of-ways.
AII septic systems sites shall be stakedthe commencement of any construction. Anywill require reevaluation of the sites.
and roped of ftraffic over Priorthese
to
s i tes
13. The applicant shall obtain an access permit
Department of Transportation and shal1 complythe permi t.
from the i,tinnesotawith all conditions of
\
14. The approach onto TH 1rI shall be
mininum distance of 5g feet.a maximurn of 0.53 grade for a
15. Catch basins shall be provided at the low point of the drivewayalong with proper spillvrays in the parking lot. A revised planshall be submitted for approval by the City engineer.
15. Calculations verifying the preservation of the predeveloped runoffrate for the site and ponding calculations for a LOA year frequencystorm event shall be provided to the City Engioeer for approval.
L7. Check dams (Type II Erosion Control) shall be placed at I0g footintervals along alI drainage sr,rales.
18.
19.
Existing structures shall be disposed of properly. If debris is tobe burned, the applicant shall obtain a burning pernit from theDepartnent of PubIic Safety and the pollution Control Agency.On-site burial of debris is prohibited.
Additional erosion control shall be placed along the north side ofthe site. A revised plan shall be submitted for approvaL by theCity Engineer.
(
20.A11 erosion control measures shall be in place prior to theinitiation of any grading and once in place shall re:nain in place
throughout the duration of construction. The developer is reguiredto make periodic reviews of the erosion control and make anynecessary repairs prorilptly. 41l of the erosion control measuresshall remain intact until an established vegetative cover has beenproduced at which time removal shall be the responsibility of thedeveloper.
?-L. Wood fiber blankets or equivalent shall be utilized to stabilizeaLl disturbed slopes greater than 3:I.
22. seeding shall be disc-anchored and shalr commence no rater than twoweeks after sl.opes have been established.
23.
,,4 .
J5. Any expans i onvehicles used
review.
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 26, l9gg - page 3l
A1r detention ponds and drainage swares sharr be constructed andoperationaL which includes arl pertinent storm sewer systems to havethe ponds functionar prior to any other constructio., oi th. project.
The applicant shatl apply for and obtain permits from thedistrict, DNR and other appropriate regulalory agencies andtheir conditions of approval.
.of the, building or parking areas or expansionin the business shall require a conditi-onal use
be s ubd i vided ,right-of-way for City $rould lookfrontage road to
watershed
comply with
beyond 12
permi t
to
ma ke
-26. The site
eas t.
plan shall be revised to shift the building 26 feet to the
27. Should the subject siterequiring the necessa ryconnections to the east.
the
a
Al1 voted incarried.
The following is thenade and seconded.
discussion that occurred after the motion was
Emmiogs: Wouldn,t you want to do that whetherOr wouldnrt it matter if it $rasn,t subdivided?
it's subdivided or not?
City (rouId
i.s the best too 1
In the event of
regui ring theto the east.
to di rect the
have we asked h irnof a stateinent?
favor except Erhart and Headla who oppose<i and motion
?.9yi The only other alternative would be that theinitiate condemnation proceedings. the subdivisionthat ere have to get the right-oi-way.
Emmings: _ Alright, let,s put it in that way then.subdivision, you put the language in your way.
Dacy: In the event of subdivision, the City would benecessary right-of-way for a frontage road ior access
Conrad: In this case ,re haven,t asked the applicanttraffic and take it around. In the l.terle voi-k, howto route traffic? What kind of agreernent, what kind
(
Pldnninq Cornrnission i{ecEinoJanoary- 2q, 1988 - page 32-
I believe it was a condition of approval that the access use CRDacy :
r8.
Olsen: And
a nyway .
Emmings: t{o. I guess the
I{here will you be going?
Conrad: Steve, what do you think about windinggoing to have access off of TH I01 which is kindfirst place. Do you care which way the go once
they already said that's what they were going to be using
that type of, they areof dangerous in thethey get on there?
thing is Ladd, urelL, where do you go?
Nancy Lee: Probably the only times we would be
r.rould be when we go do Chanhassen routes which
us lngis on
TH 10I norththat road anyvray.
Emmings: It seems, it is a public road and no matter where their
access is, they can alvrays go on TH I0I. If their access is on TH159, they can still go north on TH 101. we can,t tell them wherethey can or can not go. It also seems a little bit hypocritical
somehow. We expect people to pick up our garbage at our houses yet wewant to deny them use of our roads to do it. I donrt know, if there
$ras an alternative for them to get north on, to get to the same areasof the city but there really isn't is there.
Ellson: He means more or lessentering. Isnrt that true?
coming out than the dangerous way of
Conrad: Yes, Irm concerned aboutgetting underneath the bridge andsituation. It's without a doubt,
through there at the same time.
that but I'm also concerned aboutthat is definitely a dangerous
you can't put a truck and a car
Conrad: well, how do
use CR I8?
we have the right to tell Merle Volk he can only
Emmings: Because I think number one, thatts what he told us he wantedto do anyway. Also, was it tlerle volk, or somebody who .rent into thatcorner out by CR 41, we did that as a condition of approval. Youcan't go north up to ?H 5, you have to go out to ?H 4I and then up tothe intersection. But see that didn't really put them out in any vray.It was an alternative that r.re preferred and they really agreed to go
along with it and then we made it a condition of our approval. But Ithink if push comes to shove, I have a hard time telling someone theycanrt use roads that they are otherwi.se allowed to use.
Conrad: Picking apart staff's point 25 where they talk about 12vehicles. Do you care about vehicles Steve as much as you care aboutvehicle trips? Should we put in a cap on the number of vehicle trips?
(
Emmings: But then it seems to me that there should be a restriction
on the road that would prevent them f rorn doing that. I don't think we
can tell them they canrt use the road.
: -ann lilg
Janua ry
Co:nmission
20, 1988 -
i{eeting
Page 33
we're trying to keep this row intensity. 12 vehicres and the_( 33elic31t jn good faith, I believe them, they're not going to be\ theoreticarry shoving in and out arl day rong with on6 vefiicle. Thevehicres go out and theyr re going to come back but does the 12vehicles put a cap on traffic or do we want to talk vehicle trips?
Headla: How are you ever going to rnonitoryou mention that, do these people come backwhy you have the Iunchroom?
Nancy tee: No, they eron't come back for lunch.
Conrad: That's just architectural stuffgot to fill up boxes. No interest?
vehicle trips? No!, thathere for lunch? Is that
that goes on there. you've
Emmings: No, r think the number of vehicles is more important thanthe vehicle trips I guess, given the nature of the busiiess.
Patrick 8100d: There's one more comment rrd like to make to$rards hisinterest in the conference room, runchroom. we also jiannea tuisPui19i"s for any future reason that we might have lo i"".rr tni.building, we just didn't vrant to come. up iith.n empty-rioct< buildingto resell. This building is pranned inlo the futuri. nor any reasonwe shourd serl this-buirding, it will have the facilities for otherfuture use and that's one oi the reasons these are put into ttrebuilding too.
\ Headla: That's a good explanation. Thank you.
Batzli: To get back to your pointunderstand tile phrase, or expansionvehicles that rriIl be parked thereWhat is that ?
Dacy: The intent of that was for the 12 vehicres referred to, the 12garbage trucks or any truck equipment, truck vehicles that they usefor the conduct of their businesi. That r"ras not intended for personalcars. So if they called the City HalI and said, we,." g.tiing to thepoint that we need 15 garbage tr-ucks, we wourd i.y, ahuiis -over ttrethreshhold of L2. you have io reapply for a condiii"nui-u".-permit.
tsatzli: But you're talking about the vehicles that wiII be parkedthere overnight. yourre not talking about theii ;;r;;-- -- '
Dacy: Thatrs correct. FeeI free toyou would like more clarification.
on the 12 vehicles, I don'tbeyond 12 vehicles. Is thatovernight or is that parking spots?
address the condition if you feel
Batzli: I guess I'd like to proposemotion that we,re discussing lhat ,vequite sure how we do that oiher thanvehicles used in the business.
a friendly amendment to thesomehow clarify that and I'indicate that ere' re talking m nct
about
\ Emmings: f'Il certainly accept that. I think it should say that.
Ellson:place if could go through Ehe otherwas looked into? Shariag a
You talked once about maybe theythey got permission and it nevei
Planning Commission Meet ingJanuary 29, 1988 - page 34
driveway with
too.the cold storage or whatever? I just hate that TH Ig1
(
Dacy: No, because it was found that there's a second propertybet$reen that cold storage warehouse and the subject p.op.ity.that property owner has not been contacted to see if-they woufdan easement.
owne r
No,
grant
Conrad: Tim, can you summarize your negative vote?
Erhart: I don't think I need to add to my speech but I $rould like tosee, because I do agree werre essentially forced to pretty much letthis. thing 9o through, r do berieve the score here ii on the planning
commisison to have us look at this contractor,s yard as it relates toour zoning ordinance. I,d like to see us do that at a near futuremeeting. Whatever it takes to alo that.
Headla: Irve got two reasons. One is the numberand exiting at that particular point on TH l0I. Ipoor planning and I have an environmental concern.concern I think could be resolved, particularJ.y ifto lH 212 rather than TH I01. I think they did anplanning their application.
of vehicles enteringthink it's very
The envi ronmenta Ithey could come outexcellent job in
{I{ETLAND ALTERATION P ERI'II T.
Headla:
wet 1a nd
As I understand it, theyitself, right?aren I t actually affecting the
Dacy: Right, there's no direct alteration.
Headra moved, Ellson seconded that the planning comnission recommenrlapProval of trletland Alteration Permit #87-14 to locate a contractorisyard within the watershed of a Class A wetland be approved subject tothe site plan stamped "Received December 29, ]-997't and subject to thefollowing conditions:
Compliance vrith -\rt icle v , Section 24 (a) l4l .
of Conditional UseCompliance wi th
Permit Request
approval
I
2
the standards of
the conditions of
*87-18.
AIl voted in favor except Erhart who opposed and motion
Conrad: T im, your reasons.
Erhart: The same reasons as before.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND ARTICLE V, SECTION 3
VIDEO GOLF AND INDOOR GOLF COURSE AS CONDITIONAL USES IN
AGRICULTURAL ESTATE DISTRICT, JOHN PRYZMUS.
Public Present:
carried.
P ERMI T
A-2 ,/L
,TO
THE
\
Planning Commission Meet ingJanuary 29, L988 - Page 35
John P ryzmusArt Partridge AppI i cant
62 80 Hummir:gbird
Joho Pryzmus: I'd like to shor., you as far as the site goes. Thebuilding that,s proposed for the site, the grading has Jlready beendone on the site and the rines corne from 974, wnitir was the high spotand itrs been taken dorrn to 9Eg. so you have taken it down about 6feet 4 inches- This_ site right here -is for the proposed rnound systemfor the septic and that wirr be raised about 3 t;4-feet. so thewhore buirding will be totalry screened from cR rrz by-auout 9 feet.This building, the warrs are 1z feet high and it t"."'"[-a pitct ul to18 feet so it's a very low profile buitiing. The"city councir anastaff, werve already got the berming and ail the treei und tt"landscaping plans have already been approved for the whole site whichincluded the trees Ehat wilr !o "rooni'ttris uuiiairs. wh.t it aroesfor- the project is, it_won't inEensify the use of ttre ranJ becauseobviously when you're invorved with bisicarry the *ini"[oi" gorf andthe driving range, is an outdoor use so when it's nice weather you,llbe out here- The indoor use would be when it's inclemant-and it givesme the extra month. in the spring and an extra rnonth in the farl so tomake the project financiarly feisibte, the indooi i".iril-v is a mustas far as my financial packige goes. I feel that staff u'na tn.Pranning commission. and the -ity council have l""r-""iv rnvotvea ingetting some recreational facirfties in the city of cnintrassen. rthink right now they are proposing that the taxiayer= .f"na Z.amillion for a recreational srt" in chanhassen. -w-hat r i-r""a i"-,' approvar f rorn the pranning commission and city councii io maxe this- financiarly feasible for me so r need the bui-ldinq to make' it a crassA project. I think Mr. partridge,s here and will sa!, that i!,s been
:y:^ I]I"-.?- I.-: ld pa operation and it's beeo un "y."'o.= ior a rongElme so }rrth the money_that's been approved by the SBA, it will be afirst class operation for everyone i-n'trre city or cnanirassen can enjoyit. The building is a must.
Art Partridge: ...in recognition of the pranniog co*mission when theinitial proposal for this is a golf rlriving .ung6. it ..ras-a unanimousdeoial. It erasn,t a question.- The City Councii... the property inmy mind has been treated... ?here has Leen rubbish dumpei on tt.property. rt'!s been burned off without a permit... r ieer what tsarbis recornmending, this is a cornmerciar use. you can tark aboutrecreation alL you want but it is not a recomnendat ion. . . It,s acomnercial use of the land and any other use on this p.op".ty...
.1-
Erhart moved, Bat zl i secondedin favor and notion carried.to cLose Ehe public heari.ng. At.l voted
Conrad: T in, you'restart with lzou.
our resident expert on the rrrral areas, l,rer 1I
Erhart: Uy f irsthas been approved
question, shouldso far?that be a rural area? What exactly
Dacy: The golf driving range and the miniature golf course.
Erhart: And the bui lding?
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, L988 - Page 36
Jacy: No. The large building has not beenthe site is a snall clubhouse to afford thecoming in for the driving range.
approved.
servicing
What therets onof the peop le
{
Emmings: This plan that we have in front of us here doesnrt show the:lubhouse. Did that require any separate approval or is it on there?
Dacy: Yes, I think it is on there. ftrs right here. This representsthe plan that the Council approved this summer for the driving range
and miniature golf course area along this area. This was originally
proposed as an indoor batting building.
Emmings: One thing that upset us last time this came up
infringement on the wetland and we turned down a wetlandpermit on this property as I recall. tlohr Mr. Partridgepeople are saying there's scmething going on out thererespect to the wetland. Do we know?
was thealteration
has said tha t
nov, w i th
Art Partridge: It's aI1 hearsay.
Emmings: But do we know about that?
Dacy: I think I can clarify that. The Council upheld that denial cfthe wetland alteration permit. what the Council rlid approve r.rasgrading, he needed to as he said before, cut down the hill here andrespread the area for the driving range pads in here and we required
him to move the parking area back so there would be lg6 foot setback
from the center line of CR 1I7. So he needed to change the grade inhere. The grading, and werve got a grading plan on file, shovrs thatthe only graCing activity vras in here and it should be outside of that,etland area. Now, I haven't been out to the site since December andchatrs when the activity was but we have not, or at least I have not
been out to the site to see ho$, far the grading has gone. He was onlyauthorized to do the grading outside the wetland. The Council did notapprove the wetland alteration permit.
(
Erhart: Are you intending to put a miniature golf course there?
John Pryzmus: Yes.
Erhart: Ho!, much area does that take? The miniature golf.
John Pryzmus: The miniature golf, Itm not exactly sure but I wouldsay I used about 2 1/2 acres for the miniature golf.
Erhart: Do lre allor{ in other areas, other districts, other zoningdistricts, do we allow miniature golf?
Dacy: Yes, miniature golf courses are allor.red in the Business Highwaydistrict and the Central Business District.
Erhart: But we have a zoning ordinance changed, it does norv allow inthe R-LA oistrict driving ranges with a miniature golf as an accessoryuse. Okay, then the other question being posed to us later on is thegolf courses in general in the A-2 district. ThaE clarifies that.
L
Planning Conmission Meeting
January 2A, L988 - Page 37
Emmings: Has your office gotten any complaints about it?
Dacy: I have not receivedofficer. Scott r{o u Id have
happening there.
vle nov, have a code
me I think if there
en forcement
was someth i ng
any.
to Id
Emmings: Irm opposed to this. I,m in agreement with the staff reporton this. I think the only way I could see this, I was also opposed tothe rniniature gorf except as an accessory use. rt seemed to make somesense in the overall plan because as I recall, !,rhat he was telling usis that when people came out to use the driving range, kids could dothe miaiature golf and stuff like that and aII that; it kind of fitstogether and makes some sense to me. It may be that sane rationalecoulal be used for indoor gorf driving range but r donrt know what kindof a building that requires. This is kind of a great long buildingand I remember when I was at the University, they used to do it invery small rooms. you could do it in essentiarly a kind of srnarr roomsetup and thatts to catch the balls that you do and this building isthe same building as the batting building and I don't really know ifit's even been designed for the use that,s being proposed. I think itcould be a much smaller building but as proposed, I,m opposed to thisplan.
--)atzl-!: To be honest. I feel a little bit lost. It appears there,s
- quite a i:i! of history behiid this rnatter tirat just readiog sorile ofthese documents didnrt quite capture the essence of it. I guess itseerns that, the question I raised in my own mind, if this appears to
- be the building that vras proposed for the batting practice that wasdenied, what has changed in the meantime to now perroit this? I guessI havenr t been convincerl of that yet.
.rohn Pryzmus: I guess I don't knoH that I,m proposing it to beanything but an indoor recreational facirity basicarly geared towardsgolf. As far as some of the comments Mr. partridge made, when I dirlburn on that site it was at the recommendation of the City and I,iidhave a permit for that so some of the things that you read in thosecomments are not necessarily vrhat has really happened out there. Thebottorn line is, now what it's going to do for the City. What it cando for the citizens that don't have a recreational facility of thattype. I guess you said that there isn't a recreaiional facility andthere should be one and the City of Chanhassen and the citizens feelthat's a necessary improvement, hre do pay for the ice time. We do payfor the racquetball courts when you do use them.
- Batzli: You mentioned earlier that yourre goingputting up this indoor goLf driving range. Arenot be open year round? This is seasonal?
to
you
bygain two months
saying this vril1
llonn pryzmus: It wiII be closed, I,n proposing to have it closed forthe months of December, January and Eebruary. What it does it givesme the opportunity, from a financial standpoint, when it,s raining you- can have people still involved in doing something out there. That'!why I say it doesn't involve more traffic in the-area. One other
Ellson: I don't have any additional comments.
(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 20, L988 - Page 38
omment that people on the city staff had said earlier, when CityCouncil made the motions to approve this project, they made astipulation that it had to be on a major highway, state highwaytrunkline, a major collector, which limits the city of Chanhassen toone set would be ?H 4I and TH 5 and obviously somebody isn't going toput one next to me. The other one would be down on TH 2L2 and TH I0Iso basically when someone says that thl.s project could be buiLtanywhere in the agricultural area, the ordinance specifically Iimitsit to major collector and rnajor highway.
Art Partridge: At that tirne the City rewrote thethis in the first place, they put that stipulation
r^ras concerned, that was a condition based on...
Headla: You made your proposal, I donrt rememberfinal proposal. I thought it was just the drivingminiature golf course. Is that true?
o rd i nan ces to a I lor^tin. As far as r
the bui ld ing. The
range and the
(
John Pryzmus: No. In 1987, since I bought the building, the steelwas all out there on the site. I did, at the recommendation of theCity Council and staff, I removed the geodesic dome. I built a newbuililing. Irve done everything. f,ve done al1 the berming was aloneto the south of the parking lot. Berming still has to be done to thenorth of the parking lot. Basically, the City Council did deny thewetland alteration but tirey did make rne put in a .oond for any futureunoff or whatever. The grading plans were revised by the City.
Headla: But was
plan?
your indoor driving range progosed in your final
John Pryzmus: Yes it $ras,
Headla: I
thought itrange. We'out of thedriviog ran
bordering o
remember it was being talked about at one time but then Iwas dropped. I have a hard time with this inside drivingve had a hard time, we've really worked to keep retailingTH 5 vrhere it isntt served by sewer. I,Ie have an indoorge and people dropping in like that, I think that,sn retail so I can't support this building.
Conrad: I agree that this is a commercial use or that it's inconflict with the intent of the agricultural area. Itts not in syncwith the district's intent. r think that was hov, r postured it blforewith the indoor batting. Haybe even the miniature golf. I think agolf range is gretty in sync 'rith the agricultural area. Notnecessariry the big buildings. rt's green grass looks agricultural tome. - A building is not and I think itts real clear. t agree with thestaff's comments and their summary and don,t feel that it'sappropriate to have buildings like this in the agricultural area.
Headla moved, Ellson seconded that the planning Commission recommend;lenial of zoning Ordinance Amendment Request fg2-4 for indoor videoJoIf and indoor golf driving range as conditional uses in the A-2district because the proposal is inconsistent with the intent of theA-2 District and is imcompatible with the permitted and conditionaluses of the district. All voted in favor and motion carried,
Planning Commiss ion Meet ing
January 20, L988 - Page 39
PubIic Present:
Art Partridge 6280 Hummingbird
Art Partridge: Is this in anticipation of...
Dacy: No, that's not the case. Obviously we have one in the City butbecause of a Iarge land area requirements, I think the consensus ofopinion was that ere didn't want to exclude that type of use anyfurther if, right now the Bluff Creek colf Course is non-conforning.If they tlid want to alter their course or add additional holes, theywould have to come in for a variance. Hovrever, that's not to say thatthere are disadvantages for the site planning of Bluff Creek colfCreek especially to access... You've seen the Commission and theCouncil stated that a golf course should be included somewhere in thecity.
,-Conrad: It was pretty much our direction that we
'r_ .llow them. Itrs a case Art where if we're going
- we should have standards before they come in there
permi t .
think weto a l1ow
and ask
Erhart moveC, El1son secondedfavor and rnotion carried.
to close public hearing. AII voted in
Headla: A golf course, I donrt have a hard time with that but whenyou mentioned golf courses those people use it and pretty soon you
have like an office building and I'm kind of thinking of like
Island view out at Wacooia. You have a blacktop driveway and you'vegot a building and you're going to serve pop or food or something andpretty soon you've got several restrooms and now werre taking a lot ofwater and r,{erve got to have a major sehrer system. Itrs that sewer
system, I have a hard time. If it's where we coulil hook it up topubJ.ic sevrer and water, I'd feel a lot different but thatts the onlyproblem I had with it.
Batzli: I have the same problem. I donrt necessarily agree with the
Instaff's summary that a goLf course doesn't have a lot of noise.fact, I think at many courses who rent their facilities out forreceptions and such, the kind of noise you get is late at nightit's probably more offensive than a different type of use.
and
Dacy: The size of the clubhouse is a
rddressed but maybe one that we couldbig of a clubhouse do you have before
conference center and being rented outjust a golf course.
good point. One that was notresearch further because, howitrs getting into almost afor meetings and gets beyond
Conrad: I guess maybe you should go through the rest, but I agree. I
-(
ZONING ORDINANCE AHENDMENT TO AMEND ARTICLE V, SECTION 3, TO PERMIT
GOLF COURSES AS A CONDITIONAL USE IN THE A-2, AGRICULTURAT, ESTATE
DI STRICT, CITY OE CHANHASSEN.
should
then, maybeus for the
Planning Commiss ion Meet ing
January 24, 1988 - Page 4g
(
(
think this issue should be tabled because I don't think we thoughtthat out. That. gets back into a very comtnercial intent and I think weshould look a little bit more at the size of clubhouse. Would wepermit a big clubhouse if they came in? I tbink there are a lot ofother things that we should take a look at s imply besides access.
Emmings: We have to define golf course too I think. Are we talkingabout a 3 hole course, a t hole course, a standard size? I don'tknow. There must be standards for golf courses but I think wetregoing to need a definition of what we're allowing as a permitted usein terrns of the course itself also.
Erhart: I had that down in my notes too. I think rre want to makesure, if we're going to entertain a new golf course in this city thatitrs a real golf course. A1so, one other comnent, I bet half the golfcourses in the Twin Cities operate on septic systems so I don't knowif thatrs a real problen but if it's worthhrhile, Barb I'm sure i{rou1dIove to find out. I thought this was a rather interesting thing.
When you go through Barb's logic, or if it r.\,a s Jo Ann that wentthrough this, in trying to develop a philosophy of vrhat we allow inthe agricultural area, getting back to contractorrs yards as youprobably anticipated, is that the philosophy tends to run is that theA-2 and RR area seems to be well suited for, obviously agriculturaluse and transitioning to residential. There seems to be another use':hat runs through here and that is, it seems to be acceptable andr.ogical to allov, recreational uses, those types of uses that requirelarge pieces of land. Those have all seemed to be non-conflicting.
I,le donrt seem to get into terrible argumentc about that. Just Eo giveyou some examples on what I mean by recreational use that requiresIarge pieces of land would be the horse stables, golfing and in someareas probably, not that we have enough room but it would be typicalto be like hunting clubs. hle probably don't l.rave enough area to dothat here. If we did have enough area, it probably would beconsidered in Chanhassen. That seems to be acceptable and I think itleads us once again here, it helps us in philosophising and accepting
some philosophy and guidelines. It helps us look at these aod say,yes, I think a golf course does rnake sense. I think we all agreed thelast time we talked about this. If soneone came in with a niceproposal we certainly wouldn't erant to slov, them down or give them anykind of feeling that they $reren I t eranted. yet at the same time, thiscontractor's yard is, every time you nention contractor,s yard, youessentially say it's inconsistent in your report. So, that's aII Ihave to say about that one.
rmnings: If sre table this item, the other thing we ought to thinkabout is having it as a conditional use. If we can,t really come upwith a solid. definition of a golf course or a solid definition ofwhat size clubhouse is appropriate, we may want to make it acondj.tional use rather than a permitted use.
\ )acy: Thatrs what I had proposed.
Enrni ngs :
use.
Dacy: tsut
Irm sorry, I thought you vrere proposing it as a permitted
it doesn't hurt to add a further definition.
{
Planning Commission Meeting
January 20, L988 - page 4I
Conrad: What signals are $/e
know what signals we aII are
wanted to build in Chanhassenthem? We'd say no.
right noh,? In fact, I don,tgolf courses. If Hazeltinedistrict, would we a 1Iow
gu ide I inesto show us?
sending
sending
in the
you
on
A-2
Dacy: Right now, they couldnrt.
Conrad: So if Staff could go back and draft some kind offor us for an ordinance amendment. What do we r.rant themAre ne looking for prohibiting a rnajor golf course?
Erhart: ?hat's not $rhat I had. I had limiting a tiny golfsubstandard golf course. Thatrs what I had in mind.
course,
Conrad: ?hat'sintensive use.
rnore in line with agricultural though. A less
Erhart3 No, r.rhat I'm saying is, the rural area is a good use forrecreational use thatrs involved with use of the landl rf itrs an 1ghole golf course, it's consistent r^rith proper use of the rand withoutrequiring a big septic problem. It,s an okay golf course. What $recon't want to do is alrow in a substandara qori course. And if hedoes, then they've got to serr us that. thit's vrhat r was thinking interms of trying to define $rhat shourd come in. And maybe arso defineit, they canrt have a greaE big conference center eithir as long asit's a septic area. There,s obviously Iimitations.
conrad: chanhassen is discouraging recreation activities. I,te reaLlyare. Water slides ccme in here and we don't want water slides.I donrt know what the recreation activities are but I always worrythat _somebody.has a good idea that requires rand, the onry-prace iheycan do it is in the agricultural area but we really don,t- hivelocations for major activities like that,
Erhart: I think we encourage horse stables.both the A-2 and A-2 and RR district.Itrs a permitted use in
Dacy: I guess it depends on the recreation. The community center,thatrs aimed at specific types of recreation and the overa-ll trailplan is aimed at walking, cross country skiiog and so on. I don'tknow that werre saying no but r think maybe we're more concerned abouta large amusement type of recreation. t{ater slides, to me that meansValleyFairs and amusement parks and so oa.
Erhart: r differeniate in my mind the difference betneen some kinda created amusement type recreation, which r think a mini-course is.r would be against the mini-course because r think,s a created thingand it only requires a small area. you don't need the A-2 districtput in a mini-course.
BatzIi: By mini-course, are you talking a
nini-putt.
par 3 course?
Erhart: No, I'm talking about a
of
to
Sort of the natural,I think this community is
Go] fing, horse riCing,
L
outdoors, Iarge land use recreationala perfect place to put those kinds of uses.things.
(
Planning Commission l.leet ing
January 29, L988 - Paqe 42
cross
what I s
country skiing, walking and stuffa gimick and what's real.Iike that. Maybe define
Conrad: Art, what do you tant around your house?
Art Pa rt r idge:
matter what the
as a citizen, .
No contractor I sCity says. All
yards. I l-iveI $ras going to
next door to one no
suggest was that, j ust
Emmings rnoved,
Request #88-2.
Ellson seconded to table the zoning Ordinance AmendmentAII voted in favor and motion carried.
APPROVAL OE MINUTES;
Emmings moved, Conrad seconded to
Commission meeting dated January 6pages 9, 1I and 13 and Dave Headlafavor and motion carried.
approve the Minutes of the Planning
, L9 88 as arilended by r,add Conrad on
on pages 9 and 45. A1l voted in
{COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER, MARK KOEGLER.
Mark Koegler: Let me give jus some brief i.ntroductory things thenwerre goiag to turn it back to you. The transportation section isreally the last remaining significant section of the plan that we areembarking into anending. As a part of that, we got into a discussionyourll recall a while back, on these corridor studies. The validityof doing them. The waste of time io doing them. There were a numberof those kinds of comments that urere kicked around. The issue went tcCity Council. It came back with the Council was interested in having
some corridor studies erithin the Comprehensive plan. It might go alittle bit more specific than the plan itself and the plan itselfgetting into land use or the trarrsportation section. ?hey did makethe determination that they wanted that and as a result of that,specifically they asked that TH 5, TH I0L, TH 2L2 aod existing TH lG9and TH 2L2 be looked at. We taLked about that in general terms withthis group last time. Last time being probably about a month or soago. 9ghat r.re had done since that time is put together a text thatreflects some of that discussion and there are some just real quickIand use sketch maps in there that again, correspond to some of theIarger graphic things that you talked about last time. The corridorstudies that you have drafts of now are intended really for twopurposes. They will be incorporated as a part of the ComprehensivePlan and ultimately the graphics we pulled together and the wholething is completed. It.s possible, however, for this to exist as kindof a free standing document. If somebody comes in and says I want toput a contractorrs yard down along TH 212, erhat do you think is goingto happen to that area? At least that,s a few pieces of paper that -
you can give them. It,s kind of interesting to see tonight thatalready those are very much becoming day to day planning tools. Ithink you have. a couple of cases and the miniatuie golf-case isanothei one, that yoi: could bring in the argument, ;hat you envision
L
{
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 29, L988 - page 43
Conrad: I will open it up forget into any specific corridorlaid out?
general comments -or any particular
as being the rong term land use for those areas and how this eitherfits in the land use or not. Depending on the philosophy of whetheritrs appropriate. At any rate, the first portion of the-materiat thatyou received dears with corridor studies for the four different routesthat r referenced before. r don't know how you want to handle that.Whether you erant to go through those or perhaps it's more prudent justto take them one at a time and let you come back with questions orcornments that you might have. I think philosophically, hopefully theyare in line with what we've talked about before. rn that ihe bottornrine is the Planning commission's feeling, if we caught the essence ofit, is that without se$rer essentially there is 1itt1e or nodevelopment. We had tried to emphasize that in the text byreferencing each and every one of those r here there is, un-er thiscity's philosophy within the Comprehensive plan in general, acorrelation between provision of full urban servic"J beingtransportation network and sewers primarily, for differeni type ofdevelopment. without either one of those other components, the urbanplan was premature. so vre tried to reiterate that in these comments.I think you s ar,t, that probably in the TH 5 for example. The iresternportion, throughout that kind of text employing thL eastern portionwhich is sewered is much more defined. Certainfy defined in part bythe existing land use patterns that are there. With that, l.tr.Chairman, I don't know if you just $rant to go through these one at atime. If you lrant to open it up for general comments. At yourdiscetion.
D oeS
issue
anl/oile want tothat ltarkrs
Erhart: North TH IrI. EIe shov, sone straightning cn the plans formid part of TH 101. I see up on the Hennepin County side they'vetaken that curve right up, as you get that curve to the right andleft as you go north and the Hennepin side of that curve, the eastcurve there, they're making that a Iittle more gradual there withdevelopment.
the
the
tha t
Mark Koegler: Are you on Tolrir Li:te Road?
Erhart: Yes. I suggest we also show, is there still an opportunityto do that on this curve or the houses are already right up to thecorner? I canrt remember. When you curve to the left, they,resmoothing out that curve now by pulling those lot lines back so thatlater on they can come in and cut that curve a little bit. Thequestion I had was can you do that here by pulling back futuredevelopment inside that corner.
Conrad: Thatrs in Eden prairie.
Mark Koegler: f donrt know if thatplatted now and under development.activities there. ft doesn,t appearaI1.
was part, that area is fullyI just don't see any fieldthere is very much realignment at
Con rad :they had
not. I can't imagine whendeveloped, that they didntt
\-
That's just amazing that they'rethat big parcel thatrs now being
(
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 2q, L988 - page 44
pull it backdoesn't looknot bringing
curve are a
improvement
didnrt care
Conrad: I opened it up and II didn't have many comments on
echoed what the directive wasforecast how we might use thehe did what I expected him topage, $re could do that too.
there. ftrs a good point Tim. That's just insane but itthey pulled it. Itve been up there and they're certainlyit back much. The houses that are going in al,ong thatfair ways off the road but, this is going to be a tokenif anything. I'm really surprised that fden prairie
or somebody didn't ca re.
Erhart: Are we tarking about this whole thing, this whore document?
guess the reason I did that was becauseit. I had very fer.r. I thi-1k Markand to kind of give some kind of aland around these corrialors and I thinkdo but if you'd like to get into page by
Erhart: The other issue of course, and I already brought it uptonight, is the area down on TH 2I2 and TH I01. We have the zoningordioance that calLs it business fringe but if we rrant to rethink ihatwe could actually, is it an appropriate place to talk about perhaps
showing this as, what do you got here now? youtve got resiCentialmedium density and this would be on this page here?
Mark Koeg 1er:
commerc i.a 1 .
The business fringe area is shown on the land use as
Erhart: Is there any point to bringing it up and rekickiog taround again? I guess I'd sure like to do it and I rememberthe time, when we put the zooing ordinance in, was in favor oletting this sort of go back to agriculture and I think therecouple of points listed in here that support that. One isavailability of sewer, you mentioned is not Iikely. If nothibecause of it's elevation. Also, that the land on the southessentially the National Wildlife Refuge. Ivhat is Eden prairplan, their Comp Plan say about that TH 212? In other words.valley. I^Iha t we're really talking about here is the valley aha.opens to have IH 2L2 down our side of it. So the question,should be thinking about is what's the 1ong term plan for the
Dacy: It's similar to ours.
hat aIl
you atf j ustts a
ng else
side isie's
the
nd it
vre even
va 1 1ey?
L
Mark Koegler: As you go east the wildLife refuge continues. In !.actit folrows the river atl the way into Bloornington. There are soinemore intensive recreational...in Eden prairie. There,s a Iong bermtrail plan, or the refuge plan over there has a center with pirkingand a trai1...but the city does not advocate any commercial
development of any kinc arong that corridor. They are rearry similarto chanhassen. The only area that they have potentiar development ison the north side and as you well know, if you go too far to the east.you get into the airport and the landfiII situation and everythingelse. rtrs only on the western portion of Eden prairie that you rrouldhave any potential developable land in the future. Itrs myunderstanding from tarking to Barb recentry, that Eden prairie is now
lgol.inS at___advocaEigg that that-area,.reaIIy that whole area, not bern therr MUSA Iine for a long, Iong t.ime to'come. So in that regards,theyrre interested in pulling the reigns back a little bit on
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, 1988 - page 45
developing the areaare not on the MUSA
MUSA added to it.
That area and some other areas thatlooking at not pushing to get
as a
no\rr,
who 1e .
they I re
Erhart: Itm referring to
What is their position on
Mark Koegler: I can only
and that's slated as partnot sure.
Erhart: What would happen in Edenalong the Lion I s Tap and r,ranted tosome of the things werve seen come
Dacy: The Lion's Tap has to betheir land use plan, therers athe Lionrs Tap.
essentially the Bluffs down to the road.that?
te1l you about south of TH lG9 and TH 2I2of the National wildlife Refuge. North, I,m
Prairie today ifbuild a used carin down there?
somebody camelot or rrhat are
a non-conforming use. If I recall on1ittle spot of commercial and Ehat,s
Erhart: If you came in with awould Eden Prairie permit it?cold storage next to the Lion's Tap,
tlark Koegler: My reaction would be no,I know Lion's Tap, from vrhat I was toldimprovement to that building because ofeLse.
but I don't know specifically.not too long ago, there rrraspublic pressure or whatever
Erhart3 Ird like to see us seriously consider on, start vrith thiscomp Pran and show that as agricurtural and not show that tl.lat's goingto be a commercial site. There are tlro other things I wanted to urin{up, one is preserve essentially those homes up on ihat bluff. Havereally a stake in the way it is today. ay naking thaE conmercial, youhave a great detrimental affect on the homes on the Btuff and r don,tlive on the Bluff so I,m not speaking for myself or aaybody'-tnutr. know. _, Secondly, youIre talking about such a narrov, -"oa.L,Jo. betweenthat railroad track and TH ?"L2, it' s really questionabre whether it,sof any value commerciarry. By the time you run a service roari alongTH 2L2 .
Conrad: Therers a lot of traffic dovrn there. The car count therelike 13 tA0A to 15,AOg. It,s really big. Naegle's being forcerl totake their birlboards down fron that little corridor ancl they hatedo that because of the traffic.
Erhart: Why are t.hey being forced to take them doiun?
1S
to
Conrad: Part of the Scenic River Act or whatever iE is. I thinkthere are sorne dividing lines vrhere there is some jurisdiction overNaeglers has their signs but, leE's do this. r don.t have a solutionat the time for that. r think it deserves 15 rninutes during a timebefore LL.zg ax night so why don'!t we postpone it. Let's discuss whatthis could be used for. r don't think staif has to do any iegwork forus other than if you could give us some informaEion Barbaia, eitheryou.or.Mark,.whatrs Eden. prairie doing Eo the east of us there andleE's lusE crrarogue 1t there's anoEher use for that. $re Eried Eo ..nakethe uses dovrn there, there $rere a bunch of assorted things that lras
\t
{
Planning Commiss ion Meeting
January 29, L988 - page 46
(
happening down there so rather than makiog them non-conforming rrre puta district down there just to take care oi what was there. our hogewas that they go away but they're not. And property o$rners have aright to use that and it's a high traffic area. rtrs good visibirity.I think we need some debate about it.
Erhart: I think wha teffectively have done,with that BF district.
wer ve done, and I won't get intois we're encouraging commerc ia I it but
g r owth
vrha t we
ther e
Conrad: .Anytime you put a district in there that says you can dothese things, you encourage something. Mark, werre just going todialogue about that littIe thing.
Mark Koegler: That's a point that's very germane to transportationand land use section because that lrhole area will...that w-e're goingto be warking with the Met council. Barb and r talked about the teitpertaining to that and.we're going to have to word it pretty carefullyso it would be responsive to all of the other agreemenls thit the Cit!has with the Lake Ann Interceptor and everything else, designatinggro$rth and that is allowed without sewer availability.
Conrad: Across from that map that we're looking at, ittransportation improvements. Across from Exhibit C.
says proposed
i,la rk Koegler: It shall be associated with the case study r"or TH Ig1?
Conrad: Yes, the case study for TH I0I. Halfwaysays jurisdiction for TH l,0I south of TH 5 shouldresponsibility of Carver County. I guess I donrt
VIhy is that there? What does that mean? gthy arestatement ?
through there itbe the
understand that.you making tha t
spends aI'm kind
I,lark Koegler: That ties into the functional classification sectionthatrs in here this evening as well as another section that will gobehind that that you'Il see next time that,s going to be onjurisdictional classification. TH l0I in this plan is designated as aminor arterial. Under normal circumstances, minor arterials aremaintained and fall under the jurisdiction of County or Stategovernments. Long term plans seem to indicate that that's not goingto be a State route any longer. If itrs not a State route we believethe City's position should be that it's a County route. Cityjurisdiction essentially coming...certainly collectors and in somecases minor arterials. That's the primary, r^re get into that io aLittle more depth next time when we talk about jurisdictionalclassifications. Thatrs a summary of thinking there.
Conrad: Again, Irm ballparking this !.rhoIe thing. Markof his time and we're giving him a few minutes here andpushing it through. Maybe that's not fair.
lotofL
Mark Koegler: tsear in mind you'11 get several more cuts at this.we're going to be dealing with transportation for the next fewmeet ings .
Conrad: Anymore comments on this whole packet of stuff?
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, L988 - page 47
-.,t
Batzli: I have just a general question.potential future routes which may end upFor instance, the LRT or an extension ofwhich may or may not be in tovrn? Are we
some point or is that considered part of
cons idered?
Mark Koegler: I.lo, it is part of the transportation plan. It is notpart of what yourve seen to date. The Commission previously hasdiscussed, in very generar terms and has specifically asked that LRTbe addressed in the plan. rt was not addressed in the plan that r puttogether in 1989. It was not an issue at that time. So yes, thatwill be addressed. As far as road improvements, the only-roajor roadimprovement that's been addressed so far is the new TH 212. There aresome minor things, extension for colrectors and so forth. The impactof the extension of Tovrn Line Road to TH 10r has been factored in as apart of the TH 121 being designated as a ininor arteriar. so in thatregards, that has been addressed. But this really is just a smallpiece of the whore transportation picture and r'm thinfing it probablyis going to be wise the next time we get together to just take a fewminutes of overview arr of that's included wittrin tnal. tnie'll bebringing back some more materiar next time and hopefurry wrapping itup... The other thing we need to do is, the Metropolitan Council ison the verge of updating their development framevroik chapter ontransportation. The draft is now out. A very earJ-y dratt is out andBarb and I were talking the other day, we want to sit down rvith theMetropolitan Council's staff here, as early as next week or so, andsee what their thoughts are so if there's any other components that weare overlooking, such as LRT or some similar types that are ultimatelygoing to be required in the Compreheosive plan, we'd just as soon getit in now than to have to go back and co another reviiion 12 monthi or18 months down the road. we'11 try to have as conplete of a docurnentin regards to the pran. Bear in mind, as you arl know, the Met Councilflucuates f rorn time to time so the rules may change.
Erhart: On the amount of land area within the l,tUSAhousing at this point. Once TH 2L2 gels put on thearea get excluded then from the buildable area?
l ine
maP ,
availabl-e fordoes that
Dacy: ?he developable acreage. But it,s real1y a sma11 amount thatgoes through the MUSA so itrs not going to be that biq of a factor.
Conrad: I'm sure I don,t want to talk about light rail tonight.Mark, yout ve got a note in here. Do r.re need to talk about Markts noteto us about the Comprehensive plan completion schedule? It,s therefor our information. Anything that anybody r,rants to talk about onthat? Zoning ordinance amendment update.
Dacy: If you wanted to table that to the nextgoing to have two items on that next meeting.ordinance public hearing on some of these ifemstime.
meeting, wer re just
The official zon i ngso you will have more
r
Is that agreeable that we table this so we can give it more
Are we dealing wi thgoing through Chanhassen.the 52nd Street, Crosstowngoing to deal with that atthis package or it wasnrt
Conrad:
(
Planning Commiss ion Meet ing
January 24, 1988 - page 4g
Emmings: Should we add
The talking about whereto do something to...
to this, these things that came up tonight?wetre filling in subdivisions and maybe trying
Dacy: You mean the lot size issue and the sign ordinance?
Emmings: yes. Then there vras that ordinance that we talked about onhaving access from lots onto collectors. That thing came up vrhenthere_were some questions there so I think we ought to kick thataround and make sure we understand that but the idea that, I think Timtarked about it more than anybody else about when you're filring inareas that were not previousry deveroped or are newly subdivided, tonake sure that therets better compatibility in the n-eiqhborhood.
EIIson: I think you said your transitional comments.
Erhart3 specificarly the first item steve was talking about was thatsection L2, 6.12 of the subdivision ordinance. r thi;k it's extremelyvague. r interpretted it a different way than you did because r knowthe intent. I think I know the intent Uut f rnay be wrong but it isreal con fus i ng .
Emmings: We aI1ought to kick it
uoderstand it.
understand
around and
it but if it
maybe rer.rr i te
questions here, we
I ittle so we do
ra isesit a
Conrad: I don I t kno.r, how many of thesethe sign height review. Subdivision.
Dacy: We can certainly add it to thecan come up with something initial in
Emmings: On sign height and stuff,
Some traffic control device to setwouldnrt that aLl be in there?
things can staff do. We have
list. We'lI try and see what wethe next week.
don't they just
heights of s igns
use a manual?or somethi ng.
Dacy: That would probably be like MnDot has a published manual.
Emmings: Could we just say their signs have tothink they have heights for aIl different kinds
comply with that.of s igns.I
Dacy: Why there wasnrt a height requirement in there, that irasobvious oversight. There should have been an appropriate limit.an
can see them.
I donrt thinkby reference to
Manual or
to ca 1I it.staff telI usreally our
ord i na nceIs there
Emmings: people are going to put them where peopleThey're not going to just stick one up in the air sothere was.anything really to vrorry about. Maybe just
sorne publication, you can say comply r.rith the Uniiormsomething l-ike that.
(
Con rad :
Smaller 1if thereintent of
amendmen t
Barbara, on this infilling or erhatever you $rantots in big lot areas. I guess I'd like to haveare any rrays that lre can control that. That'sIooking at that thing. Irm oot lookinq for anright now. I think we just need inforiation.
-(
. Planning Commission Meet ingJanuary 29, 1988 - page 49
Erhart: The other
s omemo re?
one rras the BE district, we wanted to talk about it
anyrray, 1e9a11y that ere can start controlling that given thewe have L5,A6g square foot lot sizes? Reviei of coitractorisTin, where do you want to go on revie$, of contra"toi;= yria"Zdo you want to do?
Dacy: , If I could jump in Tim. This is beginning to concern me, notso rnuch fron tonight's application but we're the-only community in themetro area thatrs allowing them to scale that courd let op to 2a-25 ox50 trucks, beyond what Merle volk has out on his site. W-ord getsaround that chanhassen is-the prace to go. The onry saving giace inthe ordinance is that 1mile separation requirenent-and thit's alnosteaten up the entire A-2 area but therers one spot reft and you knowit: The guy's been calling about requirements for a contra-ctor's yardand that's on TH 212 aLso. Dor^rn the line towards chaska. you go backand amend the ordinance to eliminate, makes them non-con forming -
us es .Three years ago, the council directed staff to amend the ordinince toincrude them aod make them conforming. rtrs a perception issue fromthe pubric in that you'1r have to aeit with froir the'prop"ity owners.
Conrad: I don't know that we see a corretion right now. Let,s justput it as an agenda item next time and 1et's tarl about it and seewhere it goes- rt doesntt mean that we need anything from you at thattime Barbara.
fact that
ya rds.
Wha t
(Dacy: We can look at thattransportation plan.as a part of that corement on the
Erhart: On this signincreasing the s ignage
though, there was also an interest inWas that something you wanted?
Lssue
area.
Conrad: I come back to a sign that's 2 feet wide and I don't knowthat itrs visible. r honestly dontt know that it works. r donrt knowerhat standards we use for directional signs but thatrs my onlythought. Apparently it is working for certain people in town becausetheyr re not here beating on us.
Dacy: Most of your eotry signs toemployees, that kind of thing.developments, exi t and entrance,
ORGANI ZATIONAL ITEMS.
Dacy: The HRA liason, we do have the HRA meeting this Thursday.
Erhart: Who says we have to have an HRA representative?
Dacy: If you donrt one, that,s fine but if you're having concernsabout where the city Harr is located and how wide the stieets are.
Conrad: Are there any volunteers for threturn. The second item on the agenda,
members, I think you can see that we'veworks for the planning staff on Wednesdamembers on the planning Commission. I t
HRA? We'lI wait for Jim toeetings. Eor the ne$,
een meeting on Wednesdays. Its. Not always good for allink Tim would Iike to
e
m
b
v
h
L
consider some other days.I guess vre thought r.re,d hear i f you had any
C particular needs in terms of days ofI think the Planning Staff has some,
reasons to meet on Wednesdays like we
recommendations?
the week that you'd rather meet.in my opinion, some persuasive
do. Any objections to their
Emmings: I'd Iike to leaveit really works pretty well
Subnitted by Ba rtla ra Dacy
City P Ia nner
Prepared by !.lann opherm
just because frm used to it andit therefor me.
Conrad: Do we need to vote on that?
Dacy: No.
Conrad: Okay, 1et,s keep it then.
Dacy: Then the final correction on the By-Laws.
Emmings: Removing the word stick?
Dacy: Yes.
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded to approve the revised By-Laws aspresented by Staff. AII voted in favor and motion carrierl .
Emmings moved, EIlson seconded to adjourn the meeting.favor and motion carried. ?he meeting vras adjourned at
AII votetl in1I:40 p.m..
L
Planning Commission Meet ing
January 29, L988 - Page 50
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSIOI.I
REGULAR MEETI NG
FEBRUARY 3, 1988
Vj ce Chairman Emmj ngs called
MEMBERS PRESENT: TJ.m EThaTt,
Batzli and David Headla
MEMBERS ABS ENT:
STAFE PRES ENT:
Planner
the meet J. ng to order.
Steven Emmings, Annette ElIson, Brian
Ladd Conrad and James t{il-dermuth
Barbara Dacy, City planner and Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO CONDUCT A COMPLETE CODIFICATION OF
ORDINANCE NO. 80, THE CHANHASSEN ZONING ORDINANCE, AS AMENDED, AND TO
CONSIDER REVISING CERTAIN SECTIONS OF SAID ORDINANCE NO. 86.
Emmings: We'Il just go through these one at a time, I assume.
Headla: Do you have to have a public hearing on each one of these itemsor how do you work that?
Dacy: How about if you just open Che publjc hearj.ng and ask if thereis any member present that vrould Iike to speak on any of the items l(a)through I (h) .
Emmings: The publing hearing is open and we have one member of thepublic nho is just here to listen.
El lson: Fron the press.
Emmi.ngs: I th ink what we should do is Ietts just go through them one byone and we'11 ask if Ehere,s any comments after each one if anybody else
shohrs up. Then we wj1l close the publjc hearing at the end of all the
i tems .
Dacy: The first issue that staff would 1ike to present i.s the
codifjcation issue. Enclosed jn your packet,s List, this black bookthat pulls together aIl of Ehe Ci.ty's ord j.nances. your action tonightj.s concentrating on Chapter 2g or the Zoning Ordinance. It is, in acouple of ways, different than the newspaper version that was ori.ginalLypublished and approved jn February of 1987. I have noted Ehose changesin the report. Tim, before the meeti ng just brought up an error on page
1174 and I found one on gage L2?0. Did the Conmisison find any other ofthose types of errors or organizaE j.on or duplication?
Erhart: Barb, $rhy donrt you assume that there are probably hundreds oferrors in a document this large and that those wj11 be cleaned up.
Emmings: Is there going to be another draft pri nted?
Dacy: Yes, after the Planning Commj.ssjon public hearing and theCouncil's final approval, there will be correction pages of certain
Planning
February
Conm i ss j. on Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 2
pages that had to be changed.
sometime at the end of March
and insert the new ones.
You r,Ji I I rece i. vethat you wi 11 have
a supplement probably
to remove your o1d pages
Enmings: So if we have
through for those kindsThatis the best thing torather do it that way.
opportunj ty, then we should aLl try to readerrors and just phone them j.n to staff.rather than take time in the meeting. I'd
there, maybe you
to correct any
meet i ng or
an
of
do
Dacy: Maybe in the motion, werve suggested a motj.on
would want to add the phrase, something to the effectoversights that may be detected prior to the Councilsomething to that effect so we don't have to go back.
Headla: Whatrs your idea of an oversight?
Dacy: I would say those i temsmisspellings, or typ i. ng errorsplace in the ordj nance.
that are e i theror placement of
dupljcatj.ons,
sectj ons in the wrong
Headla: Okay, no rewordi.ng or anythi ng like tbat?
Dacy: Right. So that's the first motion that's proposed.
Emmings: Therers no one here from Elre publ ic to commenE, so areany commissioners here that vrant to comment?
Erhart: Essent j.aIly in the past, everythj.ng was single, separateof paper? There was nothing tied together in sequence?
Dacy: Thatrs correct. we had aI through Ordinance No. 80.
series of ordinances from Ordinance No.
there
pieces
ErharE: So thi.s is the first time itis beenbook. The intent ion is to constantly updaEemade. Who will have copies of the book?
pulled together in a singlethj.s bock as changes are
Dacy: These
wi 1I be sent
are your permanent copjes and if there arecorrected pages for you to insert.any changes, you
Erhart: Can citizensa purchas i ng?
purchase copies of the book? Is that what it is,
Headla: The general would have
for their
to purchase a
revi.ew 1i ke at
copy?
the l j.brary orthere
publ j c
be oneE1l son : Would
someth j. ng ?
Dacy: Sure, they could always stop upstairsshould probably keep one on file.or thatrs a good idea,we
Batzli: I think you,retrack of rrhat pages are
goj ng to have a heck
the current pages in
of a time trying tothe current format.
keep
Un I ess
Plannj.ng
February
Commj ssion Meeting3, 1988 - page 3
you star t putti.ng revl.singdonrt kno$, how you're goingmost recent page or not.
or
to
something on the pages, Itell if you're lookjng at the
Code Corporatj on, when
have to do, forthe reference that t s
we can relay that to our offjceworking wi th thjs process.
dates on i t
to be able
Dacy: From what I understand from the Munici.palthey print the corrected page, sometimes they mayexample, L22lA, B or C and then they rrill correcton each page. yourre right, itrs goj.ng to be...
Batzli: what they normalry do in a roosereaf book rike this though isto keep track of it by year and then the number of amendments that havecome out. For instance, the first amendment would be tabeled right onpage 88.1 or something and r think unless you go to that kind of system,you're going to have a heck of a time trying t6 decide if the book iscomplete or not. Thatrs not even really relevant to the planningcommission but r thi.nk it's something you might want to coniider.
Emmings: He's absorutery right and we ar1 deal wi.th these in ourlibraries, both Brian and r dear with looseleaf services al1 the timeand itrs a constant struggle Eo know and be sure that yourve got theratest materials, the up-to-date materials. rt's not iven eaiy a lot oftimes when the replacements come in to sort it out. rt can be one ofthe most. confusi.ng things knovrn to man. But thatrs part of thi.s anyway.r feel like you did this just because r was finally getting used tousing the other set so you wanted, I dlrlnrt have ro isk if thi.ngs werein the Code anlmore or not.
Dacy: I appreci ate your input because
manager who is going to be in charge of
Batzli moved. Erhart seconded thaE the pl,anni ng commi ssion recommendsapproval of the proposed codification of the Zoning ordi.nance as chapter20 in the proposed Chanhassen Cj.ty Code subject to correctjon oftypographical errors, duplicat j.ons and other corrections found byPlanning Comm j.ssioners. A1l voted jn favor and mot j.on carrjed.
REVISE ARTICLE V,
STATE I25 EEET .
Erhart: I thought
Dacy: It did forwith the pl ann i ng
discussion
Commission.
sEcrroN 5(s) (3) AND ARTTCLE v, sEcrroN 6(5) (3) ro
thi.s went to City Councj. I already?
purposes just to make sure that they agreed
Erhart: so we never actually recommended it?
Emmi ngs: This is to hold the public hearing. Again, for the record,have no one from the pubric to comment so wt'lr just ask if there areany comments or questi.ons of staff from the commissioners,
we
Pl ann i ng
February
Commission Meet i ng3, 1988 - Page 4
Headla moved, Erhart seconded that the planning Commj ssj on recommendapproval of the Zoning Ord j.nance Amendment to revise the lot depthrequirement for singte fami.Iy lots from 150 feet to 125 feet. [ArticleV, Section 5(5) (3) and Article V, Section 5(5) (3) in Ordinance No. 80and Art j.cle XII, Section 20-615 (3) and Art j.cle XIII, Section 20-635(3) Iin the proposed ordinance. A1l voted in favor and motion carried.
REVISE ARTICLE VI , SECTION 5, ACCESSORY
SETBACKS FOR VARIOUS SIZES OF ACCESSORY
Emmings: It appears that the City Councilidea than we had when we sent it up there.quick for our new commissioners.
STRUCTURES TO PROVIDE EOR
BUILDINGS.
had something of a different
You might just hit that
Olsen: One of the councilmembers felt that j.f we're allowing largerbuildings, right now the ordinance aIlows accessory structures 5 feetfrom the rear lot line and they felt that the larger accessory bui.ldj.ngsshouldnrt be permitted to be only 5 feet away so they asked us to lookinto a graduated setback. We called around and reviewed what thedifferent sized accessory structures there were and we found that theywere either the small accessory structure or the larger 3 car garage indthe pole barns. We felt that if we permitted the 5 foot setback for thesmaller bu j.ldings, that that would be adequate and then j.ncrease thesetback to 15 feet for the larger buildings. That would satisfy it. Tohave setbacks for each d j.f ferent si.ze of building would be realconfusing to enforce and $re felt that thjs would st j.1I satisfy keepingthe larger buj. Idjngs back from the rear 1ot Iine and would stj. ll be eisyto enforce.
Ernmings: ft seems to me that when we had it, before we sent j.t up tothe City CounciI, that we were concerned about height. Building heighton the accessory buJ.1di.ngs. Am I rememberJ.ng that right?
Erhart: We talked about i.t.
Emmings: Did the
Olsen: No, they
the bui ldi.ngs.
Cj ty Counci I,
didn ' t d i. scuss
Dacy: Rjght now the accessory structureprinciple structure and I think that !,rasdid have a detached garage or somethj ng,the pr j.nciple bui. Iding was and I rememberthat was the basis.
Erhart: yourre saying that thethan the principle s t ructu re?
they concerned?
I think therers a 46 foot limit to
were
i.t.
limi t is
based on
the same
when rre
the same as thethe fact that if youstyle or manner tha r_
were goi. ng through ,
Dacy: Right.
Erhart: so is that in Lhere?
accessory building can not be higher
Planning
February
Commission Meeting3, I988 - Page 5
Dacy: Yes.
height limit
In each of
is the same
the
as
zoning distrjcts, the accessory structurethe principle structure.
Emmi.ngs: You cantt buildstructure being there.
an accessory structure without the pr j.ncJple
Erhart: You can be higher. you
foot high accessory structure.can have a 2g fooL hj.gh house and a 40
Dacy:
Headla:
Oh yes, okay.
...the sheet metal barn on the north side of TH 7?
Erhart: yourve got a 1,000 square foot limit here.
Headra: You can put a big truck in there. what's it for, A-2 buffering?
Erhart: Itrs 30 by 33, that,s not as big as this room. That,s not realbig. I thj.nk thaE fellow was talking about a much bigger building.r,ggg squaxe feet wourd be approximately the size of ihis whore roomwithout that portjon.of jt. Wouldn,t you say Dave? I think a guyshould be able to buird a 3 stalr or 4 stalr garage and that ougtrt to lethe limit and i.sn't that about where $re came up wittr this 1,agg sqoarefeet?
Olsen: The 3
HeadIa: That
they used the
Dacy:
Headla :
car garage was approximately ggg.
vrasnrt consistent with the existj.ng. . .height?
same hej.ght for lj.ke a 3 or 4 staLl garage?
Is that why
You mean the height restrictions for the accessory buildings?
Dacy: Yes, thatrs what I recall.
Erhart: What concel.vably could be anthat you'd v,rant in the RSF district?
accessory building 3 stories high
Dacy: If werre limit j.ng accessory buildings to l,Ogg square feet, thatwould pretty much excLude the pole barns. UsuaIIy they range from 12 to14 feet. The only time I've seen second stories in a detached structureis over in the Red Cedar Poj.nt area vrhere they have proposed a Iittlestorage space.
Erhart: Is the object here to prevent metal buildings in the RSF
d j.strict? Is that what they're trying to do?
Dacy: No, the object is to provide a sense of scale and separationbetween an accessory structure and adjacent property. Most of thoseSears buildings are metal so to prohibit that, I'd feel realuncomfortable saying they can't have metal.
Pl ann i ng
February
Commission Meet j ng
3, I988 - Page 6
Erhart: I wouldnrt suggest that. It gets back to thjs think that we'vediscussed many times and that's about architectural regulations and youcould say that buildings over 206 square feet, which gets bigger thanthe Sears stuff, is it has to be architecturally s imilar to theprinciple structure. Then the question is, do $re want to get intoarchitecturaL regulations and for some reason in the past, werve alwayssaid no. I don't know why.
Emmings: I just r.ronder if there's ever any reason to have accessorystructures, I wonder if there ought to be a limit that they could be 3stories or not taller than the principle structure. If you're talkingabout keeping things in proportion on a residential block.
Erhart: I think a minimum, that makes sense. At least to incluale asentence that says it can't be taller than the principle structure.
Batzli: Then youtre going to start conflicti.ng with a lot of otherstuff. Werre going to have to go back in and clean it up. In eachArticle, for different resj.denti.al single famj ly, R-4, they go through
maximum he j.ghts .
Erhart: Thatrs not
restr icti.on.
conflicting wjth that. AlI it is is adding another
Batzli: But it says, Ehe maximum heights js as foLlows:structures, 3 stories, 4U feet. Then you're going to sayan accessory structure can't be hj.gher than the house.
for acces so r y
later on tha t
Erhart: Thatrs not i.n conflict.
Dacy: It should be defined.
Batzli: Is that first Art j.cle l, in general, page tI42?
Erhart: It combjnes them. Accessory use or structure rneans thestructures subordinate to and serving princ:i p1e use or structuresame 1ot and clearly and customarily incidental thereto.
use or
on the
Batzli:
defined
Erhart:
comb i ne
Is structure andthe same way?
use mutually excJ-usi.ve although theyrre
The r.ray thi s r'. s wr i t ten
two separate thoughts in
it is. I think vrhatthe same sentence.
they've done j s
Batzli: I thjnk you're just trying to put jt in the wrong place.
There I s a lot of redundancy i.n thi.s new codi f ication. rt r^rould probablybe a lot easjer to actually define vrhat an accessory structure iabecause r don't know that r know what one j.s. They talk about accessoryuses throughout the code but I don't know that they ever defi ne what anaccessory structure is, although thatrs what we,re currently talkjngabout novr.
P1a nn i ng
February
Commj ssion Meeting3, 1988 - Page 7
Erharti That's a good point Brian. I don,t see a reason why awould have to put a tennis court 15 feet away from h j.s propertythatrs what yourre suggesting. I don,t see any reason ior thatcould exclude that just like we did for docks irere. Do we havecurrent problem or do we anticipate a problem?
guy
line, i.f
So you
a
Erhart : We I re talkj ng about thetalking the first terrn there.
f j.rst sentence under structures, vrer re
Dacy: Yourre talking about storage bu:'.ldings.
Emmings: I thj.nk we,re talking about garages toounder pernitted accessory uses, just for examplea Iist of things on page 1208. The f j.rst one isone is a storage building. I thjnk we are tatk j.n
way at the bottom j.s a prjvate kennel. Maybe tha
Maybe we're talking about that one too but aII th
m j.ddle, I don't think a home occupation is clearlnot involve a structure. At least, according tothe rest could be structures.
Dacy: First of all werre just talkjjust noticed the way (b) is $rri tten,
any d j. str ict.
ng about the RSF djstrictyou could j.nterpret tha t
though. If you l ooki,n the RSE, yout ve gota garage. The secondg those tero and thent involves a bu j.ld ing.e rest of them in they just a use and doesour own def ;'nitions,
because
to mean
I
in
Dacy: That's r"rhat Irm askjng for clarification.interpretted as the comm j.ss j.on,s intent.That I s what we
Emmings: What this saysproposed ordinance which
we're doing is amendi.ng Section 2g-gg4 in theis not the RSF.
Batzli: So you're not talking about, for instance, a lr0g0 square foottennis court having a setback requirement but you are a structure?
Dacy: Correct. It says a detached accessory structure, except a dock,it excludes that, as accessory uses in some of the distrjcts, parking1ot, signs, home occupations, tennis courts, swimmJ.ng pooi, g..ug"".I'Il have to take that back. They are mutually exclusive. A use of anaccessory structure as a garage. It can be the same thjng but...
Emmings: we got tarking about thi.s because we were tarking aboutbuildings right? That's what we,re concerned about here ii peoplebuirding garages, storage sheds and thi.ngs of that nature. Maybe werrenot saying it the best way here. r see under def inition of structure,it even includes a hard surface parking area. How is that differentthan a tennis court? I don,t know. I; fact it says, anythingconstructed having a permanent location in the gro;nd. ihat wourdinclude a swimming pool or tennis court or anytiing else and r don'tthink thatrs r,rhat we're talki.ng about. r doni t think that's what $reneant to talk about.
Emmings: Werre only talkj.ng about amendi.ng the RSE sectj.on?
PI ann ing
February
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 8
Dacy: (a) and (c) currently
does not say that.
regulations sect i on.
itrs just the RSF though.
say in any residential district but (b)
BatzIi:
Ol sen :
E1lson: So at thesingle family. Is
That ' s the generat
iSe can clarify that
Dacy: Right.
Batzli: I would thinka1l districts.
se n te nce
sayi ng?
just add, in residential
that you stj 11 want to maintain paragraph (b) for
end of the f irstthat what you're
Erhart: Itrs only really the last sentence in that paragraph that youwant to Iimit to a distri.ct, isn't it? isn't it onty the last sentence,t}le L,qOq square feet, you wan! to I j.mit that to RSF?
Dacy: The way that we have it proposed for the 2gg and L,6OO io acommercial or industrial distr j.ct, that could be limit j.ng especially inthe industrial district j.f they dj.d want a 2,TOU ox 3,A06 square footbuilding in the back of their princjple buildjng. That,s what I'msaying. These 2Ag 's and L,gqg, s are based on our research.
Dacy: what r was thinking is adding that to before the second sentence-In the single family res j.dential distrjct the detached accessorystructure, etc.. Maybe tc really clarify it, we add (d) for the RSFrequirements and Ieave (b) as a detached accessory structure may occupynot more than 30? area of the rear yard.
Emmj.ngs: I Iikehere. (a) would
sentence of (b).
r,ro u ld be of (b).
as it j.s and (d)
then pick up all
Erhart: Yes, except why wouldn't you {^rant to
appLy to RR and A-2 as vrell? If a guy's gotreason to put a Lrg00 square foot building up1ine. He has less reason than anybody.
that better. Letrs 9o through the .oroposed motionstay the same. (b) !.rould be just the presenE first
The present first sentence of (b), that's all thereThen (c) would speak of any resident j.a1 dj.strict, just
would say in the single family residential district andthe rest of the language in (b) .
have setback graduations
2 )./2 lot, he,s got no5 feet away from his lot
e
you
table
Emmj.ngs: Itrs tough to coordinate through all exceptions.think of somethj.ng to do here Barb or do you thlnk we oughtthis?
Can
to
Batzli: I don't think you wanE to say that there. you don,t erant to
amend all of that paragraph do you?
Dacy: Thatrs $rhat we need to find out. If thatrs what the Commission
vJants.
Planning
February
Commission Meet i ng3, 1988 - Page 9
Headla: Yes, Is i.t clear in
yard? I'm not sure f know.
your rninds what a rear yard is and a front
Dacy: Inyards.a double frontage situatj.on, techn j.cally you have two front
Headla: I look at Minnewashta
facing the lakes and thatrs the
make sure we. . .
and Minnewashta parkway and people Iivefront yard. That's one thing I want to
Dacy: Number one, the originar intent came out of that David obieconditional use permit. you wanted to prohibit big buirdings in the RSFdistrict. As far as in the RR and tfre a-Z area, ii the curientregulations, someone could put an accessory uuiiaing 5 feet from theirrear lot line. Do you want to rimit not onty ttre setback but the sizeof an accessory building in the RR and the A:2 districts? This isbeyond the original purpose.
Erhart: Just change the last sentence in paragraph (b) to say, adetached accessory structure shall not exceeal 7,OAA ,qr^re feet in theRSF district.
Dacy: So you vrant to keep the graduating setbacks for RSF, A_2 and RR.
Erhart: The other districts, in the multipre famiry and we don't wantto get into that because sometimes you have multiptl garages forapartment buildings.
Dacy: this is getting to a point where r think the commi ssion shouldgive us direction on r.rhat they want to do and then we'11 come back.Werl,I rework thi s.
Headla: Let me ask a question. Why did you say rear yard?
Dacy: I r,ras sayj.ng, under current regulations you canrt place astructure 5 feet f rorn the rear lot line.
Headla: If you go arong Minnewashta Heights there are some beautifulhomes there and as far as r know, their livi.ng rooms are facing the lakewhich means the front of the house. what's y5ur definition of a rearyard?
Ellson: The one facing the road j.s the front yard.
Headla: What happens jn the...the property that you were going todevelop at Lawsonrs...and you'|ve got lots on Minnewashta eirkway and onthe main road on the other side.
Dacy: A double frontage Iot?
Dacy: we can add that too. what it wourd be if it's a double frontagelot. That's one item. The next item i.s, just for the nsr district, iswhat (b) says there, is that what you want for the RSE? Just limit it
Planning
Eebruary
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 10
to the RSE?
Emmings: Thatrs what I recall
were in agreement on, at least
sentling up. Thatrs what I remember we
one time.
us
at
Batzl i :
s omeb odygoing to
equal to
You need to add,is going to come
know what to do
200 square feet .
or
in
wi th
equal to, in there somewhere becausewith a 290 squaxe foot job and you'rejt. Your first, structure less than
not
or
Ellson: The only other thing I noticed was
square feet, they will be located 15 feet.Isnrt that basically what we wanted? Theythe house if they wanted could they?
it's greater than 2ggcloser than 15 feet.
have the garage next to
if
No
can
Erhart: Whatrs the sj.de yard setback in thj.s case? I0 feet? Does that
make sense.
Dacy: Yes.
Erhart: so
s ideyard?
j.t's okay to put I,000 square foot bui lding 1g feet from the
Dacy: You can put your house I0to do on A-2 and RR di.stri.cts?
f eet away. So , then what do you \,rant
Erhart: I'ry thinking was that the graduated setbacks though could have
some merits in the larger lots as welL. you're proposj.ng this to gointo the accessory structure, isn't that what you're proposing thii goesin? Into the definition of accessory structure? your whole proposal isbased on this being wording for the accessory structure. So it canapply to all districts.
Dacy: Right, and I wanted to get d j.rection on what you want forresidential- distr j.cts so then we can say that and also say what youoriginally said for commercj.al and industrial.
Emmings: you stiIl have
too ?
us confused over uses and structures I think
Erhart: The question I'm getLing to, in an apartment complex inhigh density area, an apartmenE complex where they have a garagegarages j.n it, basicaJ.ly if we do this, we're saying that qarage
theof 47
has to
Ellson: I donrt think that there's a problem. Maybe you,re thinking ofthe future and maybe possible problerns so I can understand that but...
Erhart: I think you have Lo allor^, bigger bui. ldings in the A-2 district.
Ellson: Right. I donrt thjnk we should combine it al-t with this thing.It sounds like what you wanted to do was accompli.sh thj.s for theresidential single family. I thj.nk trying to combine it with the otheris just going to make it more confusing.
Planning
February
Commission Meet i ng3, 1988 - Page 11
be 15 feet away from the lot line. Do we understand that?
Dacy: Thatrs up to you. It r,rould be best, from an administrationstandpoint, if we had one consistent set of rules for aII ruraldistricts. Thatrs why we weren't really happy about the graduatedbecause it just adds one more quj.rk into the scheme of things. youto decide. Does thj.s apply to multiple areas?...
811 son :
Erhart:
Erhart: I donrtin the RR or A-2
HeadIa: People
back.
That wi 11 say that.
Is that okay?
i.dea
need
the
think
thi nk
a9 ree ?
Erhart: If yourre looking at me as to what I would reconmend forrural, I think I like the graduated. If itrs good for the RSF, Iit's good .fox 2l/2 acxe lots too. The only tiinq is that I don,tyou can limit it to L,gAg square foot bujtdings. Dave, donrt youThere's a lot of 2l/Z acxe lots that have laige buj. ldings.
Headla: We $rere talking before, just in our area, and there's lot ofopen land. . .
think you
area.
can limit the size of the accessory bu j.Iding
who have got L6, L5 to 26 acres and beaucoup land out
Erhart: I think we can limit them to not .out these buildingsfrom the property line and that's happened to me and it seeisg guy with 2 L/2 acres, in fact we encourage Ehat, to put hisfeet from the property line even though i-r j s lot was 20-0 feetThank goodness today we're not doing that an).mora.
Dacy: Then what we get from that, first of all youdoort erant to limit the size in the RR and A-2 areaimpose a stricter setback?
5 feeE
silIy for
house I0
wide.
were saylng you
buE you do want to
Erhart: Yes.
Dacy: Werve got direction on that and
language because I think yourre right,
back to each individual district.
we can
you're
Emmi.ngs: And clear up thj.s accessory use bus j.ness
basically what you have here is what we wanted andit's gotten broader. I suppose you might as wellat once.
come back wi th
goj ng to end up
rev i sedgoing t
Eoo. I thinknot all of a suddengo and reword it all
Dacy: Do you want us to look at the height issue?
Headra: r think that shourd be a consideration to look at. see rrhatyourre comfortable $ri th .
Planning
Rebruary
Commission Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 12
Ellson: What is aheight of those.
pole barn, or whatever you vJere saying, and the
Erhart: The height thi.ng, Ithinking of third acre lots.
was thi nk i. ng of
I think that's
j ust the RSF district.
where we're trying. . .
I'm
Emmings: There, couldn't we Iim j.t it?
Headla: How nany places do we have, Iikeyou have LA-L5-26 acres that are RSE? Is
around Lakethat just a
Minne$rashta where
unique thing?
Dacy: Primar ily around inthe Carlson's lot.
your area and some land of Mrs. Anderson and
Headla: That shouldn't be right because alot of that land js going tobe developed and that. would be an imposing structure for the erholeneighborhood. I donrt thj.nk thatts right.
Dacy: At the next meetj.ng
square foot building.we're going to get a request foy a L2,090
Erhart: Are you understanding that this is creating limitat j.ons on yourIand, do you still agree with i^rhat we're talking about?
Headla: Our area is just a unique area. If it was general, I,d say r.reshould take a much better look at it buE if it's just in our area, and Ithink thatr s going to be developed very shortly, I just don.t think it,sright that we should allow one buiLding...like another barn like Irvegot. Put up another one that size...
Emmings: First of all, werre talking RSF. Can someone on a L5,gg0square foot lot come in wj.th a pole barn?
Dacy: Our currentstructure up to the
meet that. If it'sa perrnit.
ordinance says that he can build a detached accessory
maximum area 30E of the rear yard. So they have E.oa pole barn and it meets that, then we have to issue
Erhart:
a 2 ,166
The rear yard is half of L5,0OO is 7,969 times 30, it could besquare foot building. I think this is pretty good here. I
Erhart: I think those are the areas we're trying to prevent someoneputting in a 5,606 square foot building because we anticipate in thenext five years, because if it's within the MUSA line and RSE, somebodyis going to subdivide thj.s land and lehat you don't want is selling 5year old t 5|QAO square foot steel building right in the middle of this
now subdivision. So I think that's what werre trying to prevent. Eventhough it may seem restrictive to Dave.
Headla: Could I put up a 5,909 square foot pole barn on my property?
Dacy: Hers zoned RSF now and whatever 308 of your rearyard is, isacceptable. Again, that was the rrhole basis...
Pl ann i ng
Febr uary
Commission Meeti ng3, 1988 - Page 13
think it does what ere $rants it to do. The only other issuewant to tie it in architecturally and I just cln't imaginebuilding a house and putting an lccessory structure of 200square feet and not making it arciritectuially similar.
couldnrt build ovex gTg or L,gTg squaresheet metal pole barn construction. If wemake it more compatible with, if somebodyof money, I can't imagine somebody giving
Dacy: You have a point there, once they are building a buildingr louvrourd assume that they would probably put a garage and we wourd asiumethat they would use the same materials or wood or brick or something.rtrs a matter of desire on the community,s standpoint as to how far doyou want to go to regulate what a private property owner can do and whatmaterials that you want to use for an out uuiraing. rt's an option.what r thought, in the past we have not regulaEed it because sometimesdevelopment can have private covenants add;ess that. so far chanhassenhasnrt taken that extra step to go that far in regurating aesthetics onaccessory buildings. rt'!s not unusual though for-commer6ial andindustrial districts -
is if you
someoneto L,6gq
Headla: If we would say youfoot building, it can not beknock that out, wouldn't thatis goj.ng to invest that kindup an accessory structure.. .
Headla: Hohr about if webe...say, anything around I,gOg sqoate feet has to
Erhart: I think we,re all agreed thatfeet. There seems to be a hesitance tothis th j.ng. What j.s the adverse effectarchitectural controls?
we
put
of
wan t
an
us
them up to L,600 square
archi tectural lirnit onto start deal ing wj.th
and
Emmings: ...the public health, safety and welfare and aestheti.cs,legally r4re can control things that effect the public hearth, safetywelfare. I would say, if you sa j.d somethj.ng tjXe it has to bearchj.tecturally, and I donlt know what the ianguage sfroufd Ue.Architecturally consistent.. .
Erhart: I was thinki.ng in an area from 2qg f *-et up to L,qgO, buildingthe structure so i.t's aesthetically or architecturarry matches theprinciple structure. Later on this evening we're tal,king aboutcontrolling architecture jn the j.ndustrial area aren't we?
Dacy: In the commercial and inCustrial.
Erhart: How is that any d j.f f erent?
Dacyi Itrs different because cities have more say as far as design inthe industrial parks and commercial and i.ndustrial acreage. r think i.ti.s important, the single family detached home, that's at the top of Ehepyramid. That's the highest use and that,s kind of like tradi.tionallyaccepted that your home is your castle. with commerciar and industriiluses, there are more impacts as far as lrater use, traffic and tights,building separation and aesthetics comes in... io me there is a-
Planning
Eebruary
Commission Meet j. ng3, 1988 - Page 14
difference.
Emmings: I can see if you want to go higher. If you want aseparate from your house or a second story or something likeyourve got a house. I don't see any r3ason to $rant to limit
Erhart: What's the highest conceivable? 20 feet?
garage
that and
that.
Dacy: Again, the height issue, we can come back erith some facts onthat. I hate to make a statment on that now.
Headla: Vlhy don't you make a recommendation on that. I'lha t I im
thinking about is, our in our area, if that gets developed, yourve gotone building 4g feet high, that'is 9oin9 to siick up tika a sore thumb sowhy donit you take a look at that and give us something.
Erhart: AIso look at your wording in paragraph 2.
Dacy: Thatrs the rray it's written nol{.
Erhart: r think it could be a little better if it was broken down intotwo sentences.
Erhart moved, Ellson seconded to table the item revising Article VI ,Section 5, Accessory Structures until staff can come baik withadditional j.nformatj.on and suggestions regarding the setbacks andbuilding sjzes. AIl voted in favor and motion carried.
REVISE ARTICLE VI , SECTION ].2, FENCES AND WALLS, TO PROVIDE FOR
REGULATIONS REGARDING THE USE OE BARBED WIRE FENCES.
Emmings: Again, there t s noquestions or comments from
Headla: The fences that arethere r i ght?
here from the publ ic.
Commissioners?
one
the
Are Ehere any
in now, that are barbed wire, they can stay
OIsen: Yes.
Headla: Can they repair them and update them?
Ol sen: Yes .
be
andit
Batzli: I guess I'd like to propose thaU we reword the proposedsentence to make it consj.stent with the paragraph that iL's going tojoining. I would propose that rather tfrin ttte way it's worded, -t
propose that hre say, fences utitizing barbed wire in all commerciali.ndustrial districts sharr requi.re a conditional use permit, to makeconsistent $rith the rest of the paragraph.
Pl ann i ng
February
Commission Meeting3, 1988 - Page 15
Batzli moved, Headr-a seconded that the pranning corunission recommendsapproval 0f the zoning ordinance Amendment to amend the Eences and wallsection of the Suppl,ementary Regulations of the Zoning Ordinance(Article vr, section 12 in ordinance No. 8g and Article xxrrr, Division5 in the proposed ordinance) as follor.rs:
Secti.on 2g-1924. Barbed Wire Fences:
Barbed wire fences are prohibited in all residentiar districts. Barbedwire fences are permitted in the agricultural districts.
Add the folrowing sentence at the end of the section (section 2q-l'6tglregulating commercial and industrial fences:
Fences utirizing barbed wire in arr commerciar and industriar districtsshalJ, require a conditional use permit.
All voted in favor and motion carried.
DELETE ARTICLE VI, SECTION 4, TEMPORARY STRUCTURES AND USES.
Dacy: I donrt have any comments other than what was presented.However, we did receive an application last week for location oftemporary use on the Natural Green property. So $re accepted theapplication and because thj.s ordinance was not approved, vre hadaccept applicat j.on for it. So at the next meetj;;, you will seeapplication for a temporary use.
a
to
an
Emmings: What is the temporary use theyrre proposi ng?
home on the Natural Green site forto put a mobi lespace.
Erhart: An office for what?
Dacy: For the Natural Green offices.
Erhart: I thought Natural Green was moving.
Dacy: Yes, they did find another site in chaska but they are currentryusing the existing home for office space and supposedry iccording to tireowner, itrs very cramped in there and they rranted some extra space foranother year. In March of 1989, they will be completety out of
Chanha ssen .
Dacy: They want
temporary office
Headla: Did you have any restri.ctions on
Dacy: No. Again, we're in the process of
loca t i ons?
writing the staff report andit wj.ll be at your next meeting.
Emmings: Are there any comments on thissection?proposal , to delete this
Batzli: I'm
Do they have
cur i ous
type of
to what other
permi t?
j ust
thi s
as
use
cities do around Chanhassen.
Dacy: Not to my knowledge. For example, we have Eden prairiers,
Minnetonka's and P1).mouth's ordinances on fj. 1e and I thj.nk thjstemporary conditional uses did exist in oor Lg72 ordinance. It wasa carryover into the new one. The Cj.ty Attorney rrrote that in butto my knowledge have I seen it in adjacent commun it ies.
j ust
not
Batzli! But the Attorney's opinion didn't necessarily sayimproper as j.t would be costly to fight it out in court, ifright?
it was
I read that
Dacy: Right. I think itrs really way, in some cases, to circumvent theordj nance. If you look at temporary conditional uses and under this
Iequest then, you could propose almost any type of use in any zoningdistrict and then it becomes an enforcement problem and sometimestemporary becomes permanent and maybe the property o$rner can claiminvestment into the property and go after us on that. so r guess that'swhere the counsel comes in.
Erhart: Why are you recoflimendi.ng this?
wetre recommending to delete this section.
Yourre recommending to delete the entiresaying that a guy can put a temporary..
Dacy :
Erhart:
You ' re
ElLson:
Erhart:
section that allows. . .
No, we I re sayi.ng they
They just can't Co j.t
Dacy: Werre saying either the communj.ty Iooks atit as a conditjonal use or a pernj.tted use. It,sit's not.
canrt do it.
at all. Oh, okay.
the use and i nc I udeseither permanent or
Emmings: We
I don't think
recal I .
donrt want temporary uses. Itrs just like that book store.
anybody sa$/ any benef j.Es for retain j.ng thjs section, as I
Batzli: The only
mucho denario for
benef i t i.s
the City.
f lexibJ. lity but perhaps at the cost of
Erhart moved, BatzIi seconded that the planni.ng Commission recommendapproval of the zoning Ordinance Amendment to delete the sectionrgarding Temporary Structures and Uses (ArticLe V, Section 4, inOrdinance No. 80 and Article XXIII, Section 2O-9q3 in the proposedordinance). Al-I voted in favor and motion carried.
Planning Commission Meeting
February 3, 1988 - page 16
PI ann j. n9
February
Commission Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 17
Dacy: The language thatrs proposed, Irm not partj.cularly happy with, tobe honest with you and the City Attorney said that he was going tosuggest some alternati.ve language. I talked to Jim Wildermuth today onthe phone and he alerted me to the fact that Eaton Companies are nowmaking wall materials whereby you could have a masonary facia, sheetmetal, insulation and sheet metal aga in so he's saying that there is aform of construction out there Ehat does use some type of sheet metaL.
Then it is hung on steel frames and so on. That provides betterinsulation qualities to the building. His opinion was, the City shouldnot go so far as to prohibit the use of metal or sheet metal in actualconstruction but merely limj.t the facia or the exposed material. In mycomnents I addressed that second alternative. The recommendation was
based on the first alternative prohibitj ng utilization of metalconstruction completely but given Jimrs comments today, it seems likethe state-of-the-art buj.lding, that may change so it may be best to gowith option 2 and just address what the building looks like.
Emmings! So now you're basically proposing to alloe, use of metalconstruction without exposed metal. Is that correct?
Dacy: Riqht.
Emmings: Do r.re have any buiJ.di.ngs j.n the commercial or industrial areathat have exposed meta I ?
Dacy: No , not to my knowledge. t^Ie doconstruction that di fferent facia.have bu j.ldings that have metal
Headla: Exposed metals, you're taIkJ.ng like $ralIs?
Dacy: Right. Irm sorry, the only one that we would have j.s Gary
Brohrn's mini-storage. Thj.s wou1d, if Gary Brown walked j.n after this
was approved, he r.rould not be able to build h is meEal build j.ngs.
Headla: I thought of thaE
knock his off?
and I didn't understand that. How would this
Dacy:
aL1 his
Headla:
Dacy:
Erhart:
Dacy :
EIlson:
It would knock out Gary Brovrnrs proposaL
building's were, erere pole barns.
But j.sn't he on the fringe area?
Yes, but he's zoned business fringe. He
Isnrt his approved already?
Yes. Irm just saying, as an example, if
They're saying if he wants additional,
because he bas i ca I1y,
i.s commerciaL.
he never
could do
requested . . .
it because he
ADD SECTION 26 TO ARTICLE VI , SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS TO REGULATE
CONSTRUCTION OF METAL BUILDINGS.
Planning
Eebruary
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 18
aJ- ready some ei ther .
If he came in for expansion beyond what he has approved.Dacy:
Head 1a :
Right.
I like your intent but I tried to think of other wording too.
Batzli: Again, just echoing that sentiment, I started thinking, what
about conceivably aluminum siding that really doesnrt look like metal?Or the metal around $rindorrs? Or metal fire door? your wording doesn'tallow any exposed metal but yourre going to have a lot of exposed metalin thj ngs like that.
Emmings: You can think of somebody designing a buj lding thatis not just
an ordinary building where they want to have structural components
exposed or something like that where it would be consistent with thedesign or whatever we want Eo allow.
Dacy: Which option?
Ellson: We like Option 2 I think. To allow metal but just sowith some exceptions, especially the face. I don't think we'reprohi.bit all metal construction, especially after erhat you said
Eaton and things that are certa j.nly being done in building.
Dacy: with that direction, we could come back with a betler
somehow,
going to
about
are just glass and
sentence.
metal.Erhart: There are a lot of buildings thatBeautiful office bu i ld ings .
Dacy: Maybe the sentence should read, there shall be no construction ofpole barns in the comnercial or j.ndustrial area.
Erhart: That's it. Hoer do you say that.
Dacy: Thatrs the i ntent .
Emmings: Maybe that's the way you do it. Maybe you say somethingthe intent of this is to avoid pole barn type construction and notlimit the use of thj.ngs like alumj.num siding that don't appear to
meta I .
Iike,
to
be
Dacy: Ri ght,
Emmings 3 And
and say it.I'd specif j.cally
That I s what werre
put in pole barns.
EaIk j.ng about.
j.nterpretation.
Just go right ahead
so Ehat wiII give us flexibility in
Head1a moved, Ellson seconded to table action on Section 26 to Article
VI , Supplementary Regulatj.ons to regulate construction of metalbuildings. A11 voted in favor and motion carried.
Pl ann j ng
February
Commission Meet ing
3, 1988 - Page 19
Batzli: I have a question. Are you holding cemetaries to a higher
standard than anyone else in the entire City by making them go through aconditional use permit if their sign in fact complies with al,I the
requirements for the ilistrict in which they are located so they wouldonly need a permi t?
Dacy: ActuaIIy, cemetery signage isn't provided for anywhere right now.
The location of the two cemetaries are in, one is in the A-2 district
and the other one is in the RSE district. Under the signageregulations, the only thing thatrs permj.tted are development
identification signs and house numbers.
Emmings: I think itts quite the contrary. The cemetery down here camein with a sign proposal and we aII sat here and said gee, cemetariesreally are different and they really ought to be alLowed more latitudewith their signs. Our whole focus has been to restrict the use of signs
everywhere and here it was a place where we felt like they ought to havea little more latitude. We thought the only way we can keep our finger
on what they're doj.ng is to require a conditional use permit. It really
r,ras to give them more latitude, not less.
Batzlj: That answers my quest j.on. I bras curious if for instance, I
didnrt know where they were located but if they were jn a bus j.ness
district. They're a sign and they comply with the rules for that area.
Emmj.ngs: They don't need directi onal signs.
Batzli: If all they had was a ljttle 2 x 2 square foot sign that said
cemetery. I imagine that would be permissible in a business district to
have a sign advertising who you are. So if that's al1 they were going
to put up, they would still require a condjtional use permit?
Dacy: Right, because most cemetaries have the entrance anC the gates
and they're more extravagant.
Ernmings: That's not really his question. His questi.on is, if
comply with the sign ordinance. If the sign ord j.nance appli ed
met the conditions of the sign ord j.nance, would they sti.ll havej-n for a conditional use permit, is what hers say j.ng.
Dacy: As rrritten, if it was located anywhere,
come j.n for a conditjonal use permit.
yes, they would have to
EmmJ.ngs: But the f act is. . .
Ellson:
Minutes,
We'd Iet them have
engrave it or rout
a nice oneir.like, I think I was reading the
ADD SUBPARAGRAPH 20 TO ARTICLE IX, SECTION 2, GENERAL PROVISIONS FOR
SIGNS TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR CEMETERY SIGNS.
Emmings: There is still no one present from the public. Are there anyquestions?
they
and they
to come
Planning
Eebruary
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 20
Emmings: That isn't the problem that $re
they vranted more than the sign ordinance
to do and they aren't in the commercial
Dacy: I think they're only perrnj.tted as a pernitted use in.the
disirict. That one next to St. Hubert's may be non-conforming 'that's the only place where we allow them as a Permitted use.
face.
would
area.
The problem we face is
a 1low anybody eI se
A-2
I think
Batzli: If thatts not a problem, I guess I would just propose that l'e
again reword the proposed new section to read, signage_ for cemetaries,
in alI districts, shiI1 require a conditional use permit.
Hnmings: Why donrt you go ahead and make a motion. Does anybody else
have any other comments?
BatzIi moved, Erhart seconded that the Ptanning Commission recommend
approval of the zoning ordi.na;nce Anendment to include Signage
nigulations for Cemeteries as follows (Sect ion XXVI, Divis j.on 1in the
proposed ordinance):
Section 2O-L277, Cemetery Signage. Signage for cemeteries, in al-l
districts, shall require a conditional use permit. All voted j.n favor
and motion carried.
First of all, do you wantEmmings: Yourve asked us to
any comments from us at thj.s
Erhart:
can bury
tablepoint thi.s item.
in t ine?
where do you think we're goinq with th is? Rjght now anybody
anything? where do you thj.nk we're heading on this?
ol sen :
have to
littte bit more control on it. To make then so they
pernit. So we will know what it is there.To keep a
receive a
ADD AN ARTICLE TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO REGULATE BURIAL OF DEMOLITION
DEBRIS.
Olsen: Sure.
Emmings: Why don't you telL us a little bit more about what's going on
here because this thing has gotten bigger too.
olsen: It began again, at the request of the cjty Councj. I to look at
construction where there's an existing building or whatever and they
want to bury it on-sight. Therers no requirements or regulations for
that so they want the City to have some control on that. That list
that's on the back page of the report is the staters regulati.ons and we
transferred the ones that are appl j.cable that could also be used within
the City. Right now we stj ll have to work vrj.th the other departments to
figure -out wtro's going to enforce this. what the permits are going to
ue. Definitions. Things tike that so we still" have some cleaning up to
do.
Planning
February
Commission Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 21
Right now I can bury wood.
Concrete, you name it. Somebody else could buy that property
rea1ly know what's under there.
Erhart:
EIlson:
and not
Erhart:
conc r e te
Ol sen :
they can
Erhart:
Yout re certainly no!
and boulders?
We donrt want to eliminate i.t. Weput it. Just so we know where.
thJ.nkj.ng about elimj.nating burying of
just want to tell them where
Have we had some trouble?
Olsen: Not too much that we know of.
Emmi.ngs: What about things like, I know when I built ny house, they
took dovrn some real big trees and everything, and had great big stumps
Left. I think they buried, thj.s talks a little about demolition. Ithink that neant of existing buildings. Do you care about other stuff
that might be there Ehat they buried?
olsen: That's vrhen
1i ttle bit closer.
we get into that def j.nition and we'II look at that a
Dacy: Vlhatrs exempt? Burying your Pet dog? The key word here is
demolition.
Erhart moved, Headla
Oridnance regu).ating
and motion carried.
seconded to table adding an Article to Ehe
Bur ial of Demol i. t i. on Debr i. s. AII voted in
Zon i ng
favor
olsen: staff already has some changes to thjs. Mr. Headla pointed that
the way it reads, right now you could put a car antenna, radio antenna
on the house so trhat-we actuilly meant there was the radio antenna
tovJer. That's what we meant to restrict to one per 1ot'
Emmj ngs: so you want to insert the $,ord "towerrr afEer antenna '
REVISE ARTICLE VI , SECTION 21, ANTENNAS AND SATELLITE DISHES TO LIMIT A
SINGLE EAMILY LOT TO ONE ANTENNA AND ONE SATELLITE DISH.
olsen: Then satellite dj.sh, that can remaj.n the same. 41so, a questi.on
vras the ground mount. You may recall the ground mounted vert jcal-
antenna,lthe Roy Barke,s proposal. It wasn't the large tower that the
antenna'was pl,a;ed on but iE,s just a pole thatrs stuck jn the ground
that acts as just an antenna. I was speaki.ng with sonebody in the town
who has all these and he was saying, they're temporary. You just stick
ihem out there and they're usually no higher than 2g-23 feet but I just
wanted to get the Planning commission's feeling that they wanted that
also to be limited to one.
P1a nn i ng
February
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 22
Emmings: Has that been a problem here at aII?
olsen: The first time I ever salv them was when
site and he had one. Again, they're temporary.
a definition also.
Headla: Ird Iike to see you wajt on that one. I'd like
reworded, forget radio antenna and just say antenna tower
maximum square foot area of the antennas they can have.
we visi ted Roy Barkers
we have to come uP with
to see
and put a
Olsen: Yes, he
numbers.
requested that before and we tried to come up with some
Heailla: Who did you ask?
olsen: I called all the djfferenE antenna places and people who
radio antennas because j.t depends on where you want your signal
Your antenna could be a miltion different combinations.
Blvd. and you
is to control,stick on this
square feet of
use theto go.
consider theput a max imum
tower. Right
antenna and I
Headla: But as you drive down, ljke Powers
antenna over there, I think the real intent
square footage and how many antennas can you
now itrs unlimited. You could put up 15-20
don't think that I s what we r^'aot.
Olsen: The tower itself, l.f You Iimit
certain amount of antennas that you can
it to one tower, there's onlY
put on.
a
Headla: Yes,
ol sen :
HeadIa:
I have
Have
you can put up 20-3s-44
not been able to come
you talked t.o any hams?
square feet on
up with a good
lhat one tower.
number.
Head 1a :
r espond ?
Those probably aren't the hams but I would think, how did they
olsen: Irve talked to
that manufacEure them.
Olsen: They agreed that you could limit it
antenna $rould be very difficult to regulate
d j.f ferent. They're aIl different sizes.
Headla: The
area.
ol sen :
that we
square
Russia.
several and then I slso talked to the companies
to Ehe towers but that the
because theyr re aIl
only one thing weire regulati.ng is maximum cross section
a number
had 5to
Aga j.n, I could not come with a definite number' It $'as
ciuld pick and then next week we could get somebody who
feet moie and they need that because they want to speak
I can stitl look at it aqain.
Pl ann i ng
FebruarY
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 23
r think itts incomplete without putting a maximum cross section
the antenna.Headla:
atea on
Emmings: I think what Jo Ann j.s saying, any
with would be arb j. trarY.
EIIson: Maybe you should say, in relation t
something l ike that. You don' t l^tant it to b
yourre really concerned about, right?
number she woulil come up
o the house it's on or
e huge and ugIY j.s what
Headla: To me antennas arentt particularly good. In consideration of
other people, on TH 101, remember there we had where he wanted to put
two. if,ey *"r" quite concerned there about how that would look' the
aesthetici of it. I just think thatts a parameter that shoulil be
controlled vrith a maximum. Max j.mum on1y.
Emmj.ngs: part of the history here, and maybe it was in here and I just
donrt remember right no$, but we keep getting these requests for towers
anil then we,re toid everytime that we can't deny it. Although we have a
conditional use process to go through, the area has been pre-empted by
ECC regulations and we don'i rea1ly have any control. over it at all.
this wis an attempt to starE to get some control on it. If we canrt say
no to an antenna or tower, maybe at least we can say no to ttdo' To
ihere being two towers on a lot. I think thatts how this al.l kind of
came about. we're not sure that we can even alo this. Itrs kind of a
gray area.
olsen: I thj.nk by g j.ving them that one tower is giving them reasonable
use. I guess the question again is, do you also want to regulate those
ground mounted vertical?
Ellson: Just say the towers plus the ground mounted wj.ll just be one.
They use them basically the same r,ray.
olsen: Those are temporary and the satellite dish and antenna tower are
permanent. They have the concrete base.
see it as a problem, why would we even wanb to get our
Batzli: It woul-d be a way bo circumvent the ordinance' Just put in
temporary ones and they can use temporary ones permanently'
HeadIa: Unt i. L we
hands i.nto it?
HeadIa:
Batzl i :
a problem with any control.It becomes
Then it's too late.
Emmings: Nol., these temporary ones, what do they do with them? Do they
go out and Put them out for one daY?
olsen: The People I was talking to, they were saying they put it up
during the winter be-cause in the sunrmer there's too much static and itts
just an additional antenna rather than having to mount an antenna tower.
Planning
February
Comm j. ss i on Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 24
It works as an antenna without having the tower.
Erhart: rtrs an antenna fierd. you can achieve the same goal as havingone long, high antenna. you can achieve the sane goal by having themultiple, small antennas as having a high taII one.
Emmings: Woulal we vrant to say something tike if you have a tower, allyour antennas have to be located on the tovrer?
Olsen: It might be the same if they used the ground.
Erunings: What do you want to do?
olsen: r courd look into them a little bit rnore and maybe we courd saytwo ground. Tlro antennas arenrt that bad.
El1son: r think you shourd say a number too so they don't go down andsomeone has 5 in their yard. one probably isn't very obtruiive but...
Batzli: r'd rather rimit it to one, whether it,s temporary or permanentmyself.
olsen: They can arways go through the variance process if they want.
Emmings: so basicalryr you want E.o go ahead with what's proposed here.Are there any other comments or discussion?
Batzli:
and the
I guess I t
word to rre r
I think that we
mounted antennas.
m
is under the j.mpression that the word radio is deletedi nserted after antenna .
OI sen :
ground
Ellson:
one on.
Ellson:
ground ?
should separate ant.enna towers and also specify
ThaE r.rould allow them to have one on their house and then put
Emmings: I donrt think so.
Yourre saying you want one and let it be the house or the
Olsen: You want either one tower or the ground?
Batzli: That's rjght. That,s what I'm proposing.
EIIson: I think you should let them. Especially ifcan get more Chicago stations or something like lhat.1ot more in the winter and they probabJ-y can just putthe winter and enjoy it a I j.ttle bit moie.
in the winter
You do pick
it out there
they
up3
for
Batzli: we just got rid of our temporary use permit and here you,retrying to do temporary things agaln.
Pl ann j. ng
February
Commi ss j. on Meeting
3, 1988 - Page 25
Ellson:
them in
Headla:
Ol sen :
I'm saying theytheir yard.can have one of them. They can,t have 5 of
Does this inclutle TV antennas?
That r.rouldn't include TV antennas.
Batzli: Do you want to reinsert the word radio?differeniate from TV? It appears that's how thedeals with satellite dishes, television antennasthree separate entities.
Radio antenna tolrer tosection does it. Itand radio antennas as
Headra: Then you could put a facsimir,e tower and microwave tovrer?
Batzli: rt sure rooks rike it according to this ordinance. werr, wecan exclude television antennas specificarry. r $rould say antennatower, permanent or temporary and excluding terevision anlennas, wourdbe a friendly ameodment.
Erhart: I'11 second that amendment.
Emmings: Any more discussion?
Ellson: Read it again. I,d like to hear what it is again.
Emmings: As I understand it, it wiLl say
one satellite dish and one antenna tower,excluding television antennas, per 1ot in
Batzli moved, Erhart seconded that the planni.ng commission recommendapproval of the Zoni.ng Ordinance amendment to revj.se the sectj.onregarding antennas and satellite dishes (Art j.cle VI , Section 21 inOrdinance No. 80 and Article xxlII, Section 2q-9L5 in the proposedordinance) as fol lows :
Add the following and renumber the existing six paragraphs:
there shall be no more
perrnanen t or temporar yresidential distri cts .
tha n
and
1. There sha1l be no more thantower, permanent or temporary,residential districts.
one satellite dish and one antennaexcluding television antennas, per lot in
AII voted in favor excepE Headla
Headla: I think they should put
antennas on the tower.
who opposed and motion carried.
a maximum number aod/ox sizes of
Erhart moved, Emmings seconded
Zoning Ordinance Amendments.
publ ic hearingsfavor and mot ion
close
voted
the
in on the
carried.
to
AlI
Mark Koegler: We've got a few items to d j_scuss Lonight on thetransportation section of the Comp pl-an. They are fair).y brief. In the
memo r outli.ned essentially there's going to ten major components of thetransportation section, just to give you a little idea of what werreworking on nov, and what werre working towards. They are largely eitherpulled together or informatj.on is coming together on Iiterally every oneof them. At our last meeting we talked about item 7, functionalclassification. Tonight we're going to review items I through 3 andthen the next time the balance of the items will be incorporited in thedraft. Prior to goj.ng to talk about some of the new text that's beengenerated for the pran, Barb and r tarked about it might be adviseabreto real quickly give you another chance to review the goals :nd policystatements as they exist right now for transportation jn thetransportation section of the plan. Being that thj.s is the firstsection of the plan, I know just a couple of you have gone through, Idon't know what chance you've had to look at the draft as it existstoday but there are goals and policies pertaining to each section of thePIan. Land Use, Housing, Recreati.on and so forth. These are the ones,obviously, for the transportati.on section. We thought we $rould simplyput those in the packet and give you a chance to look at those again to
999 if there are any add j.tional comments or modifications that you r,rouldrike to see. r don't think it's necessary for me to read through thoseby any means. Perhaps any comments that anybody rnight have, this wouldbe an appropri ate time t.o make those known. To be honest you, we lookedat these so long ago, I don't really recall what modjfications theCommission made initi.aIIy, if any, io the transportation items. Therewere changes that were made to some of the other goals and policystatements pertaining to other sections of the plan. Do you rememberBarb?
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER, MARK KOEGLER.
Dacy: fn my notes, I didn,t note any particular ones.
Mark Koegler: I suspect it may be possible that when we get j.nto
talking about some of the plan sections tonight, and again next time,that may spark interest you might have and if we rnissed something.Particularry on this topical area that you had interest in or if somepolicy on. some type of use.of facility, that may really come to right infurther cliscussions so again, this like everythl.ng else, is not a deadissue after tonight. . Feer free at any time to make any comments youhrant. Moving along, if we can then jnto the new text thatrs beenprepared for discussion this evening. The transportati.on chapter i.sgoing to be completely reworked so you can riterally take all 0f the oldpages and toss them aside and replace them now with material that youget in a chronological sequence. The part that,s before you tonigirt, asr j.ndicated earlier, is the first three sections dearing irj th iu=i sorn.simpre introductory text. some straight forward descrif,uions of theexisting system. Then, Iaying what we think is a fairl! importantcomponent of the transportation plan and that is, an ouitine of some ofthe systemrs deficiencies and major issues that are present. The intentobviousry being ptan, through a variety of measures, both in text and
Planni.ng Comm j. ss i on Meeting
Eebruary 3, 1988 - Page 25
PI ann j- ng
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graphics, we'11 address each of those points and be posing in the longterm and short term, various solutions that are appropriale. In termsof introduction, the only comment that r think r want- to impress uponthe Commission, so that youtre aware of it, which is somewhat aninteresting point, is that again, thj.s plan has to be prepared inaccordance with the overarl framework that the Metrpolita; councilestabri.shes. That regional framework says that the goal is to maintainthe same leveI of accessibility that is present righf now in the entiretranspolation system. Thatrs not to say that ther! aren't targetedareas that are going to try and get through but r think it's i;portantto realize the congestion that exists now, to some degree, will be afactor in the future as well as a part of the design of tne system.Theyrve done that for a variety of reasons. Eirst of aII, I tninf freferenced there isn't enough money you can throw at the problems tosorve it. ...in order to keep transi.t systems viable in ltre area forthose segments of the population that rely on that. They don't want tomake it too convenient for too many people to have easy privateaccessibirity without mass transit. For a variety of ieisons, that ispart of the regional policy. It's clearly delineited in all of theMetrpolitan councilrs prans. That they pran to have congestion as apart of the future system because they con't think it can be etirninated.
Emmings: I saw Commissioner Keefe spoke to some group, that was aboutthe light rail transit, and said the same thing. It was the samemessage. Focus on everything inside the MUSA anil r think is what he wassaying if I heard it right. I was wondering what it meant, when yourvegot that overarr policy that they're goi.ng to maintain approximat6ly thesame levef of regional accessibility and then you've qot ihis data overhere. On T-9, that 9" TH 5 you've got l,ggT to 7,560 vehicles per day.To justify a 4-1ane faci lity, they aim for TH s at 2a,gaa. Almost threetimes that. r know they do pran to upgrade TH 5r but when they say youhave the same level of accessibility as you did when? or as tlringi -
change from this year to 5 years from now?
Mark Koegler: That a real general, regionaLly oriented statement. rt,slike any large parameter. you can,t take it and focus it on TH 5. TH 5is an example of that. There will be situations like TH 5 that will beimproved and hopefully werll have better access:'.bi. Iity. I thi.nk if youread in the text, without TH ZL2, TH 5 isn't going to be a lot betteroff LO years from now than it is right now. oespite the constructionthat erill hopefully obviously is going to occur. So I don't think it'sfair to focus on an ind jv j.dual li.itle spot. yes, there will bei.mprovements but overall, the regional perspectj.ve is that as a whole,the system will be operating essentially the vray it js now. When youcompare the Twin Cities to a 1ot of major metropolitan areasr it,s-pretty favorable. You look at the maps of where the significant trafficdelays occurs, metroareawide, and how extensive those area and how muchthey probably are, there might be 70 miles of congested roads, soundslike a Lot but when you compare it to other areas, it,s not that severe.
Emmings: Under Lhe description of existing systems, it starts out onpage 2 there, this may be trivial but that first sentence says thatchanhassenrs existing street system consistents of a series of local
Pl ann j. ng
February
Commission Meeting3, 1988 - Page 28
streets, collectors, minor arterials. Is there a di.f ferent bet\reenintermediate arterial and major arterials?
Mark Kcegler:arterials.
Emmings: We've got i ntermed iate.
Emmings: TH 7 is the only major arterial?
Mark Koegler : Correct.
Mark Koegler: Yes, werre going to update that language. Werre in aperiod_of time right now when there is a draft, which-was just preparedwhich is not even fully circulated yet, of the Metropolitai Council'sTransportation chapter of the Development Guide. so they are revisingtheir transportation section of their Comp plan, if you will. That haisome different language in it than the 1995 draft, which is the mostrecent one to date. The current now is prefacing major and minorarterials and the highest category wiII either be a ireeway orexpressway. what used to be principre is now either intermediate orexpressway and what used to be intermediate arterials is now majorarterials, essentially. Just some renaming.
Emmings: And then I didn't understand
under issues and system deficiencies inproblems. Yourve got north/south accesshalf of that I didn.t understand. The
What does it mean?
at all, the comment on T-5 andthe second paragraph. General
def ici.encies and then the lastlast haLf of that paragraph.
Mark Koegler: That,s an example which comes from the previous p1an.That's language really that vras modified srightry from the r9g0 pran andthatrs simply pointi.ng out that wben you look at the standards that theMetropolitan Council or anybody else puts out, say you've got acorlector route or if you have any minor arteriar routes, Idearly thosehave design standards. They are spaced I mire in frequency, I L72 mirein. frequency. you have controrred intersections. you truri'no privatedriveways. The list goes on and on and on and it focus's on speedlimits and ADT numbers and so forth. what that!s essentialry saying is,if you look at those kind of ideal situat j.ons, there are areas jn
chanhassen where that physicarly is not goi.ng to be possibre. That's anexampre- - Normarly you wourd have major facilities spaced roughry a mireapart and here r{erve got a space that's 3l/2 to 4 mjlles wtrer- t-iterattybecause of topography and because of the lakes, and because of exist ingdevelopment patterns, thatrs as good as j.t,s going to get. The areathat I guess would like as much comment on tonjghi as inyti-ring,particurarly if there are thi.ngs that have been reft out because as rwas pointed out in the text, as residents and as peopre who drive to andfrom work each day or to and from events in other parts of the metroarea, you experience the road system. We've gone through andessentially identified and kind of combined to a certaii degree, some ofthe deficiencies and issues that srere presented in the last-plan thathas reaLly kind of surfaced since then and have categorized them with
The new verbage thatrs being used goes to minor and major
Planning
February
Commission Meeting3, 1988 - Page 29
three major headings. Either intersections, access problems, roadcapacity or connection problems and jurisdictional continu j.ty.Starti.ng on page 5 then, there,s an 6utline of some of the rlally primeexampres of existing probrems or existing deficiencies or exi.stiig- "r".sthat farl under each of those three catelories. Again, r donrt knowthat r need to go through alr of them. i tti.,r. yoi,." familiar withmany of them. yourre probabry familiar with som6 0f them in greaterdetai] as a result "I.th: broaden study area report that was done. y"arand a harf ago. particularly some of the interiections rike TH 5 andWest 79th, TH 101, West 78th and Dakota and so forth. I guess as aprimary interest, are there other i tems that yourre aware of that shouldbe included in some of those categories that lrave not been covered inthe text thatrs been put together right now. or are there specificproblems there that you donrt think have been identified eno-ugh.certain aspects of intersecti.ons or streets or whatever that arenrtcovered there and if so, we would certainly like to incrude those.
Emmings: r don't know what criteria you used. To me one of the worsethings in chanhassen is getting of TH 7 into the roads that r have touse to get access to my house. rt'|s dangerous and there's screechi.ngtires and collisions up there arr the time and thatrs TH 7 going intoMinnewashta Heights and Lows and shores and that whole streich. some ofthat is actualJ-y in shorewood r think. That's a real problem. That,s aproblem that I experience everyday but I don't know if it r j.ses to theIevel of being a problem that needs to be identified in theComprehensive Plan.
Mark Koegler: I thj.nk it does and I think thatrs an example of onethat, quite honestly, I overlooked. yourre aware that the TH 7 corridorstudy took place 2 years ago now, maybe plus a little bit, and that hassome definite recommendations on some intersection closures and somethings up in that area to heLp remedy that. It,s our intent, I thinkI had one of the itens, the outlj.ne j.tem 5, is actually talking about
some of what ara the existing deficiencies. The text wj.1l move into asection thatts goi.ng to talk about some of the planned improvements andthat woul-d be an example of the reference to the TH 7 corridor study.I think that is a point that $re need to identify in the deficiencysection. Right now it only identifies one or two intersections with tn7 and it doesn't really focus on the corridor.
Emmings: I found out just recently, and I vras tempted to get it, theState does keep, you get a computer printout for an i.ntersection and thenumber and types of accidents that occur at the intersection. I didnrtknow that until about 3 or 4 months ago but I was kind of curious, f wasthinking about getting one for our area up there just to see what therecord sholrs. I always feel , the pile of bodies ha6 to be so highbefore they do anything and I was wondering how high it is already.
Mark Koegler: Werll add some text on that. "IH 7 corridor and
Mjnnewashta area. One of the thi.ngs, again to give credit where creditis due, the assembly process of putting some text together, the graphicthatrs on page l0 that shows some of the growth along TH 5 corridor,which I thought really laid out very nicely vrhat has taken place over
the last 5 year period in terms of the volumes that have jncreased andfor each of those segments, what kind of percentage increase has beenhappen!.ng on an annual basis. It drives home the need for thoseimprovements- rt is particularly important to reference that in termsof the development as commercial and iodustrial expansion andresidential growth continues to happen in Chanhassln regardless of,hopefully the TH 2I2 construction occurs, TH 5 soon will be a veryheavily used route and therefore it's importance in the City's role inmonitoring r.rhat Eden prairie is doing. I think it,s extremelyimportant and there are jurisdictions probably to the west of here thatfeer the same way about chanhassen. TH 5 obviousry is vital as you headon out to victoria and waconia. Are there any other items that -nybody
noted that were not addressed at alr or not addressed thoroughly enoughin terms of problem identification?
Emmings: I'm just lookj.ng at this arrow, theon the map on T-5, it extends CR 17? Maybe Itext.
black arrow that appearsdidn't connect that to the
Mark Koegler: The intent of the graphi.cs i.s simply to indicate that cR17 has the potential to be extended to pioneer Trail and there isspecific reference in the text. That essentialry is as far south asreasonably that road is going to go. Therefore, if Chanhassen hasinterest in making sure i.t has at reast one north/south minor arteriarthat has some hope of being functional, it is TH lOt rather than cR 17.What rre're trying to stress TH lgl for a variety of reasons. One ofthem is the j.nterchange aspect with the proposed fH 212. UnderMetropolitan councj.l's criteria, interchanges occur with at reast :ninorarterials or better, in terms of their functional classification sothat's to some degree in support of that a1so.
Emmings: Does anybody else have any questions?
Mark Koegrer: The onry other item, and r donrt know that it's realrynecessary to go throuqh it. r thi.nk alr of you probably have had cofiesor currently have copies of the broaden study area which did focus onsome detailed recommendations for intersecti6ns. Specificatly, areworking of the interchange at TH 101 and west Tgth and TH 5; r thinkis probably the most major item and Dakota. Dakota is probabry themajor one with 78th street. There's TH 1gl as a part oi that arso andthe new interchange west of TH r01 that wilr go iito kind of a middre ofdowntown area. Those !,rill all be a part of tnis ptan and that text isbeing worked into this. r think you probablyr at least most of you, hada chance to go through that in the pait. rf- you haven't you'rr lee thatin two forms- yourll see it in the plan of miteriar that you get nexttime, or you can read about it, perhips in more deta j.l, in the broadenstudy area I s report.
Emmings: What does that come
TH 101 and West 79th Street.
Mark Koegler: It r{ould comebe primarily opened ended to
under? For example,
Does that come under
that interchange of
recommended systems?
under trro things. I think that's going towhat's now considered planned improvements.
Pl ann j. ng Commj.ssion Meeti.ng
February 3, 1988 - Page 3g
Plann i ng
February
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 31
Planned improvements is going to realry look at the improvements thathave essentiarly been generarry agreed upon or generally planned by avariety of jurisdictions. The city, county and state. -certainty ihisis one that the city now has had pranned. rnterestingry enough lhough,the way that process worked, I donrt believe that has g-one to publichearing yet. rt will do that as a part of the compreh6nsive plan so rdon't kno$, that the general pubric has had the chaice to critique someof these things to the degree that they will have when this document ispurled together. rt wilr be crearly identified in there that this iswhatrs being planned, in general, for that area.
Emmings: what is the status of that? rs that intersection, that weirdintersection with the railroad running through the middle of it.
Dacy: That will be part, as Mark mentioned, of the planned systemsection on the transportation chapter anil that wirl probably be the mostcontroversial part of your public hearjng process to adopt Lhe plan.
You erilr hear from Chanhassen Estates. you will hear from McDonards.
You will hear from Ivan Sinclair. you will hear from the peogle inHidden Va I Iey.
Emmings: And several planning Comm j.ssioners.
Erhart: For or opposed?
Dacy: McDonalds will be opposed. Staff is planning to conduct someneighborhood informational meetings prior to an officiar public hearingon this matter but the first step is getEing it considered by thecommunity as a planned improvement. iou reiall a year and a half ago wehad joint meetings witi-r the Council and we looked at that year 2A65transportation p1an. you really looked over that intersection quiteclosely. We have had BRt{ look at that alignment and make somerefinernents so that there isn't such a curve coming south on TH 101 so
r{re are getting to the point that rre are refining the geometrics of thatintersection and getting down to specific distances, iight-of-ways,widths, etc . .
Emmings: One of the interesting things about that intersectj on is thata railroad goes right through there.
EIIson: Do we have a picture of this somewhere in this packet?
2gq5 study j.n there.Dacy: In your orientation packet, I put the yearItrs figure 17.
Mark Koegler: Therers a lof of detailed background material in therealso which I think will qive you more of an overview to see what thethinking was behind that. Quite honestly, the transportation element,to be one of the focal points of the puUlic hearing on the Comp plan. Idon't think any of you were on the Commj ssion back around 1980 but rrhenthe Plan went to hearing in 1982, it was hard to muster anybody to haveany interest in the thing and I suspect some of Ehese kinds of thingswill generate a l j.ttle more enthusiam this time around. Whether that be
Planning
Eebr ua r y
Commission lleet i. ng
3, 1988 - Page 32
bad, werII see. That's all I had. !{e' 1l be back next time withof the material.
g ood
the
or
rest
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Ellson moved, Batzli seconded to approve the firsthalf of the Minutes of the planni.ng Comrnission meeting dated Januaxy 29,
1988 as amended by David Headla on pages 2 and 15. AII voted in favorand motion carr ied.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS DISCUSSION.
Dacy: I wrote this primarily to try and keep track. Make sure that wehave everything and a couple of new things have come up from othermembers of city staff. Eor example, regulati.ons for fences in the frontyard and concerns about wood stoEage and outdoor storage.
A tape change occurred at this point in the meeting.
Emmings: PUD philosophy is on here. That's kind of big. I don,t knowwhat it meant. You've got landfiIIs and and hazardous waste disposal .Treated wood, $re've talked about that. Architectural exterior metalbuiJ.dings. We are talking about that. Radio antennas, cemetery signs,temporary condit j.onal uses, center islands in cul-de-sacs. The onlyother one is acreage left in MUSA.
Dacy: I ilid ansrrer that at one meeting.
Emmings: Maybe I wasnrt here.
Dacy: It was another Comp plan meeti.ng and the ansrder was 112qg acres.
Erhart: Hos, much do they allow you to have? What,s the goal?
Dacy: We have L12OA acxes of vacant developable land left in the MUSAarea. Once we eat up the Lr26g acres, then the City can considerpetitioning Met Council.
Erhart: And they expect you to bring that dovrn to zero?
Dacy: Correct.
Erhart: what happens if Dave Headra just doesnit want to subdivide hisland? We have to erait for the next 50 years until Dave dies.
Dacy: I think if it cones down to 95t or ggz, I rm sure they r,rj.Ilconsider that but. . .
Erhart: That just seems unreasonable. At some point you have to say,it's like unemplol.ment. You can't get it down to zero-. at some poiiitherers got to be a certain number of acreage that these people j;tstarenrt going to h,ant to subdivide for any reason and you wiff stirtrestricting, more and more restricting Ehe growth of ttre City.
PI ann ing
E ebruary
Comm j. ss i on Meeting3, 1988 - Page 33
Emmings: This issue
about that ton i ght?
on fences in front yards. Do you want to talk
Dacy: If you want to.to you.If you'd rather wait until next time, that's up
Emmings: This camestaff it says.
up either from the City Council or by other city
Dacy: Yes, the fence one was initiated from a councilmember andcontacted Jim chaffee about it and r received a memo from Jim chaffee.r agreed that r wourd bring it to the commission's attention to seewhether or not they $ranted to pursue it.
Headla: When people.come up with stuff tike that, it just seems likethey've got tunnel vision. The one area theyrre lookiig at, the wholerrorld is like that, and itrs not. Take a look in our aiea, and Tim'sarea. If you !,rant to put a fence in your front yard. I donrt know $rhyyou canrt. Somet j.mes I like to have flowers and sometimes I like tokeep my aog i! my yard. I don,t want a 2l/2 foot fence that he'Il stepover. r really think when they look at the stuff, and the next subjecttoo,, donrt look.at just one small area of the City. It's a big citywith a lot of diverse things going on and therers a lot of difieren-tinterest in this city.
Dacy: Hos, about if I do this. Maybe I,It invite the councilmember thatwas concerned about this issue, Eo come to a meeting to discuss it moreunless you have a strong feeling noe, that it's not appropriate.
Emmings: It seems to me $rhen something like this comes up, it's good toknow why. What specific thing has gone haywire that brought it up. Doyou know what it is?
Dacy: I thi.nk it was just a general aesthetic j.ssue that must haveoccurred in his neighborhood because we just Ealked briefly about it.Itrs just the aesthetics of having a 6 foot fence in the front yardalong the road.
Emmings: And you do see, I think of my neighborhood and I know myneighbor has, the spot I live in is completely enclosed with a chainLinked because it was all in the hands of one person at one time. Nor.,
we tore it down along the lake but itrs still there up along creenbriar,
and that looks real bad, in my opinion. Across the street, on thecorner, there's a $roman that has a split rail fence in her front yard
and it looks just f i.ne. Itrs just two rails and very unoffensive. It,sjust a variety. Then you get j.nto hedges and hedges being fences.
Werve been in this before. Itrs a real complicated j.ssue and not only
would I like to know r"rhat went wrong that brought. it peoplers attentionbut it might be a gooal idea just for people to drive around for a while
and look and see. There's a variety and I don't think we want torestrict people too much.
Planning
February
Commission Meet i ng
3, 1988 - Page 341
Batzli: Currently, if someone was going to install a 5 foot fencetheir front yard, erhat would be their Lirnitations on doing that?there a setback from the road? A right-of-way Ehat they couldntton or can they put it right up to the road?
Dacy: They would have to put it at the property line, at theright-of-way line. They couldntt put it within the right-of-way.
Olsen: We also require a p1an.
in
Isput it
Dacy: Okay, wer 11pictures.come back with specifics on this issue and maybe
Emmings:
stuff on
Did we ilefine that hedge as a fence, when wethe sliding lot line? We talked about it.
t ere doi.ng that
Dacy: A Iandscaped hedge? Shurbery?
Emmings: Yes.
Dacy: No,
mention it
Emm i ng s :
Dacy: As
ord inanceof annual
the ordinance is just fences or eralls. Ithat we talked about it, but the way itrs
Alright, so thaE will come back.
well as these other 8 items. I would 1
amendment issues wrapped up soon. Irdissue. Kind of a housekeeping process.
recall now tha t
i{r i tten .
you
ike to get mostIike to have it of
AS
the
ki.nd
Headla: What about the wood storage?
Dacy: I just included that for informational purposes. I haven't had achance to sit dovrn with them to rearly discuss th; intent here because rthink we have some problems with the iuggestion of number 2, from anenforcement standpoint. It was just for informational purposes.
Headla: rrd like Eo know rrhat costs are involved because once you dothat, you need an elmologist to go out and look at a woodpile and that'sgoing to require so much education and training anc travel and what areyou going to get out of thaE? Where Steve 1iv6s and I live, are twovastly different areas. what are we going to accompli.sh for it? rf rgo on TH 5, TH LOL, TH 7 and look at aII the elms standings, ther3 areso many of them compared to whatrs going to be in a wooa iiie.
Emmings: I didnrt know about the importance ofI knew about it with elm.
removing oa l< bark.
HeadLa: Thatrs becoming more serious alIgood oaks there that boy, I vrant to save.
area .
the t ime and I've got a lot ofA lot of nice oaks in my
Erhart moved, Head1a seconded to adjourn the meeting. A1l voted infavor and motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at I0:66 p.m..
elannini Comm j. ss i on Meeting
February 3, 1988 - page 35
Submitted by Barbara Dacycity Pl anner
Prepared by Nann Ophe im
3030 Harbor Lane North
Bldg. ll, Suite '1(X
Minneapolis. MN 55447-2175
512J55$1950
HEI.IBRANDUM
TOr
FRtr},I:\lle'
F I anni ng Co.nmission and Staf{
SIJBJEtrT: Tran=portation Secti on EomprEhrnsive Fl an
DATE! February 1aJ, 1?88
EncIosed. plea=e +ind the ctrmplete draft of the Transportatit3n
Chapter .l+ thE Ecmprehensi.ve FIan update. Flease diEcard aI 1
t:ther dri+t lext pertai.ning to the tran=portition section,
The Tran=trsrtation [Jhapter wil l fJE reviewed ner:t lrJecinesdav,
Febrlrary 17 " 19EE, F l Ease nBte any trornments or rnod j. f i trat i ons to
this rnateri.al +or further distrLrssit:n and review at the rnretinq.
Stallings
, lEi*E'.8!i..'PLrc'
f,lark f;:treEIer
l
I NTRODUCT I ON
Transportation is an issue that +aces almost a1 1 trhanhassenresidents on a daily basis. Host o+ the trtrmmunity's residents
work trutside Chanhassen's beundaries. VirtLrally el I residentsrely on personal automobi, Ies for daily transportation.There{are. travel to ernp l Eyrnent trombined with shopping trips,entertainment and 6ther travel needs results in +irst hande:{perience and knowledge o+ the loca1 and Fegitrnal roadwaysystem.
Bver the past 5 - 7 years, this f i.rst hand kntrwledgE has resultedin increased {rustratitrn .aith the road netwErk. Trunk Highways5r 7 and 169./=1? trurrently have desiqn dEficientries and/or areoperating in extress 6f reasonable capacitv. The sslution toEhanhassen's transportation trBncerns lies with a variety E+agentries intrILrding the trit.l. MnDOTT Earver Eounty, Hennepintrounty end the Hetropolitan Eountril. chanhassen,s transportationplan seelis to coordinate the e++orts o{ these agencies andEutlines a local pla.n for the improvement of 1ocal and reqiBnalconditisns.
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Chanhassen's transportation plan is prepared under the frame+rorkout] ined in the transportatj.on sectitrn o+ the HetropolitanDeveLopment Euide. The ller_ropolitan DevelEpment Euide 1s astatement o{ regi.onal policy and since it has a fnajor impact onlocal polic!.. it is valuable to identify trurrent regionalthinking pertaining to the trsnsport-ation system,
The overall oblective o+ the regional highway plan as identr.fiedin the r{etr.por i tan Devel oiment Gui de i s to msi ntai napproxi.nately the samr level. o+ regj.Dnal accessihility thatexists at the prespnt ti.me. trongesti.ori "t,i.f,
- l=-*--o"ri-"* tn"exiEting si-stem will aIgtr bE present in the fut(re svstem.Removal -+ .onsesrion his beEn cetermr-nei" *;"-r;-=;;oii.*r r yinfeas:.ble dlrp to traoital *nd soc:aL cDsts. ThE NetroptrlitanCountriI alstr believes that -r .""q*=tioi-free E1;stem woLrld producenrgati ue i,npacts on transi t .i=*q"-"*i i.h woul d n-rke i t maredifficult ro servE the rrinsit d;;;;;""; popuretion.
Do regional politres preclude +uture transptrrtation i.nprovpftentsin Ehanhassen? The answer to this quElstron ts no. The basis ofthe Hetroporitan Dr:r-rnci * s Tr-ansportation Flan ii- tn"ttransportation priority must be to maintatn r_hose facilities thatEerve eliisting deveLopment in the Lrrbdn Servlce area. Thenorthrrn portion o+ chanhasEen Ii.es wi.thin the urban servitrearea. Additional l./! the plan retrogni=es that funcling will benecessary to improve thE minor arterial systE.n (T.H. E) in theregi(]n.
The transportation =ystem is ins=parablE +rom chanhassen,s r.anduse trattern- The dpve,lopmEnt o+ commercial ! industrial andrrsidential areas must be intpgrated by the transportationsystern. As new developmrnt contin rs to take placet traf{ic
i
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Ehanhassen's E:{isti.ng street rystem tronsiEts of a series (]+ loEatstreets. col lectors. minor arterials and fnajor arterials.Exhibit 1T portrays the road system Rnd {unctionalclassi+itrations that exi.sted in 1?EfJ- This in+orrnation wasderived +rom a lqTl update o+ the trity,s 1969 tromprehen=ivrFlan. Errhibit :T shou.,s the currEnt roadway system! Epeci+ical 1ynoting thE imprtrvements that occurrred from l?BO tB 1987.
The e:risting street netlsork includes apprEximately 7g ,ni les ofroads. O+ this ttrtal ! ?5;. are paved with a perrnanent surface.Figure lT indicates the distribution and lotratiEn of thE existingsystem sLrr+aces. These {igures do not intrlude the IO rniles ofState and tlounty roads which are mainteined by 5urisdLctionscthEr than the trity o+ Chanhassen.
Figure 1T
Existing Arterial & Collector Streets
F rom
Lanes
T rave I ed
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
Hest Limi t
North Limit
Hwy. 5
I'lest Limit
Co. Rd. 17 North
E. Border Sec. l3
l,lest Limit
l0l-169 South
212
North Limi t
North Limi t
Kerber Dri ve
Greenwood Dr.
Co. Rd. l7
Co. Rd. l7
Laredo Dr.
North Limi t
Co. Rd. l7
(to be updated)
ifipatrts wi. Il need tc be closely monitored end analyzed.
Althouqh the priinary mode trf transEortation +or Ehanhassenresidents is the private automobire. othrr modes arr a.rsourtili=ed. As a result. the transportation sptrtron addresses masstransit which inrludrs ridE sharinq, van pools. busses andp'rsibly riqht raiL transi.t. Non-motorized modes. Epetri+itrarlywalking and bicytrling are sddressed in the trair section E+ thisplan whi.ch is found within the rercreation trhapter.
DESCRIPTION OF EXISTINE SYSTEM
Street
Hwy. 7
Hwy.41
Hwy.4l
Hwy. 5
Hwy. 5
Hwy. 5
Hwy. 212
Awy. '169/2'12
Hwy. I0I /169
Co. Rd. l l7
Co. Rd. 17
Co. Rd. I7
co. Rd. l7
Kerber Dr.
t,. 78th st.
l,l. 78th st.
Hwy. l0l
Lyman Bl vd.
To Cl ass
llorth Limit IA
Hwy. 5 MA
South Limi t MA
Co. Rd. l7 t'lorth l'lA
E. Border Sec I 3 I'lA
Henn. Co. Li ne lrrA
I0l -169 South I'lA
East Limi t l,tA
South Limit YrA
Co. Rd. 17 C
Kerber Dr. C
Greenwood Dr. C
Hny. 5 Cu. 78th st. c
Laredo 0r. C
Hwy. 5 C
Hwy. 212 C
East Limit C
ROW
150
I50
66'l50
200
ls0'l00
90'100
66
100
OJ'l00
I00
'150
66
66
56
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Exhibit 1T
CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
M INNESOTA
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Existing (198O) Functionat
Classification
III lntermediate Arterial
OOO MinorArterial
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CT'A'WASSEN
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Exhibit 2T
Existing
Road System
lmprovements - 1980-i987
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Chanhesgen has different po1 iciEs pertaini.ng to tronstrutrtitrnstandards {er urban versLrs rural streets. Urban roadway= arerequired to dedicate 5O *eet of right-of-way +or local strEets
and a 3E} +l]ot wide paved area is required. Fural roadways arEr
also rrqlrired to have bitumintrus surf aci.ng in a ?4 +oot widthtrontained within a 6O foot right-of-Hay. Current city policy
also allows the constrLlction o{ private driver+ays prcviding sutrhdrives do not serve more than +our single +amiIy residenres. InsuEh cases. 5O {eet of right-of-way is requirpd with the roadwayconsisting of a !B +oot wj.de gravel sur{ace-
I SSUE S/SYSTEM DEFICIENCIES
The funtrtion 6f a transportation plen is to
future needs but also to analyze existingaFpropriate sol Lrt i ons. Frequently. e:{isti.nqrelated to +uture needs. As a result. agiven area can remedy existing de+iciEntriesfuture needs -
not on 1y atrcomrnodate
problems and to pose
problems are closely
speci+ic action in a
while providing {or
In exa.ni.ni.ng Chanhassen's rxistinq transFsrtation systerllr agenerel problem is readily epparent. The system providEs
adequrate north./south access in terms of feEility locations bl-rtis defitrient in east./west routes. In thE northBastern part o+the city. T.H. 5 iE lt:cated 3.3 miles from T.H. 7. Thi= comparesto rna.x i rnum ripatring a+ one rni le f or north./sor-rth routes in the =amegeneral area.
Intersect i onslAtrcPss:llhanh ag-,eninterseEtionE that currently arp
tumrnary o+ thesp otrcLrrs as +sllows.
contai ng
Ex peri enE i ng
a nl.rmber
prob I ems.
of
?. T.H. s/West 79th Street/T-H. 1O1 - Tra++ic {orecasts werepreparEd +Er the intersection of T.H. s/trtest 79th Street/T.H. lol(see appendi): ) . At the West 79th Street intersection,signi+itrant turn ,novernents include: exiting tra++i.c form 79thStreet, through volumes on T.H. 1O1 and left turns +rom the south
Issues and systEm deficiencieE trsn be categori=ed into threetypes r:+ conditisns: 1) interE;etrtions. =) road
capaE i. ty,/connect i ons and - ) juriEdiEtional cont_i.nuity. EaEh o+these topics tsre addresEEd individually-
1- Central Eusiness District Access - Downtown Ehanhassen has anidentity prohlern due tt: a 1a-ck of coordinated visual andvehicular accErsE +rorn T. H. 5, which Eerves as the primaryconnpEtion to/lrom the metropolitan area. This problem i=particularly important dlre to Chanhassen,E role as a maior Twincity entertain,nent center- rmprovements cLrrrentry r-rnderway wiLlsigni+icantly alleviate this situati.on. The addition trf a newnorth/south entrance into the downtown area west of existing T.H.1O1 will qreatly improve dEcess-
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O{Al*l,ASSElJ
Exhibit 3T
System Deficiencies
O lntersections/A ccess
r Capacity/Connections
A Jurisoictional Continuity
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to West 7?th Street- The capacityindiEates that it would operate atrepresents stable operati on.
anal ysi s
a I evel
o+ this i ntersecti snof EervicE B whi ch
At the intersection o+ T-H. l{}l and T.H. E! significant turnrnovement vtrlumes intrlLtde Ieft tl-lrns f rtrrn the north to T.H. Srthrough tra{fic on T.H. 5 and le+t tLtrns from the rast to thesouth on T.H. 1O1. The interseEtion is expected to operate at aIevel of servitre E r.,ith both the proposed upgrading of T_H. g andthe provision of double left turn lanes on the north and eastapproaches- Level o+ servitre E indicates that the trafficvolumes through the intersection arEr at capacity. Speci+icproblems in this area inEludp the +ollowing:
trapacity problE.ns at T.H ElT.H. lt}f.
- Fotential difficulties for srlectEdl0l/We=t 79th Street in light of overall
turn movementg at T. H.tra+fic vol umes.
T
from the east on
=. T. H. S/Dakota Avenue - tr,e5t TEth StreEt,/T. H. 1Ot - Ananalysis was conducted o{ the trlest TBth Strrpt/T. H. l.)lintersection whitrh assumed a miner rea-Iignment to provide a mErEldirect movement from north T.H. lO1 to T.H- E_ Sj.gnif icant turnmove.nents incl.utde reft tl-rrns frem TBth Etreet ts the north onT.H. 1{]1 and through vol Llmes on T.H. 1(]1. Approximately 6ipercent o+ the through v{]ll-rmes on T.H. Ir:,1 at this locatiEn arEtri.ps parsing through Chanhasssen. This system would operate ata le./el of service E which reprpsents a capacity condition.
Speci{ic problems in this area inElLrde the following:
- Capeci ty
- Li mi ted
proble.ns at T.H. 5 and Daktrta Avenue.
statr t: i ng distancE on the north approach.
real i gnrnent o+ T.
of T. H. 5.
- The need for condemnation for the
Ti. ght cr-rrvature o* T. H. 1Ol north
InterEect i. on spatr]. ng
SbyT
and I otrat i on.
lJsage of T.H.H. 1Ol thror-rgh tra+fitr.
Limited weaving distance for vehitrles comingH. 5 turning te+t into trlest 79th Street.
H. 1']1.
4. T-H. 5/CSAH L7 - As continued development takesdowntown Chanhassen, pro.;ecti.ons indicate a siqnificantat the intersection of T.H. E and CSAH 17. Limiteddistance on the north approach could result in queuesthe intersection o+ trlest TBth Street and County Road 17.
place in
prob I em
stacking
bl ocki. ng
- The
whi ch
rna j Er problem with thisnorthbound l,linnewashta
5. T. H. 7./l'li nnewashta Parkwayintersection is the anglE with
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Parkway joifls T.H. 7. As
eastbound tra+fitr on T.H. 77 to soLrthbound Mi nneu,,ashta
6. T. H. 5,/Lcne Cedar Lanetraf+ic on Lsne Cedar Lanerestritrted by a hi 11.
a result. it is difficult to idrntifyand turning move.nents +rom eastboundFarkhray are cumbersomEr.
The sight diEtance forlooking west al ong
southbound
T.H. 5 is
7. T.H. 5/Lske Ann Park Atrcess - The access to Lake Ann Fark i.sdirectly o{f o{ the north side of T.H. E. Le{t turn movementseither into or out E+ the park are hazardous due to the volume o{traffic on T-H. E. Fark users frequently encounter signi+icantwaiting periods in e):iting the park. particularly at pEak hours.In the future, atrcess to the park may be reali.gned off of CSAH
L7.
A. T- H. lO1,/96th Street
exists due to the vErtical
this intersectiont a blind curveo{ T.H. 1Ol.
Sight distantre problems occurto the vertitral curvature of
-At
trLtrve
9- Fi oneer
for tra+ f i.
T.H. 1,J1.
Trai I and T
on Pi oneer
H. 1t)1 -Trai I due
1O. T.H. 1o1lchicago Northwesitern
i ntersec+.i on. the roadlray passes
however. the width and angle o+ the
onEoming vehicles.
Rai lroad Tracks - At thi.s
beneath thE rai I road tracks.
bridge rnake it ha:ardous for
11. U-3. :1:,,T.H. 1r)1 - This intersEEti.on is ha=ardougsol-tthbound T.H. 1,.11 tra+fic desiri.ng to turn eestbound ontEdue t'o heawy traffitr volu,nes.
ior
1". U-5. 1,!9-11=,/T-H. 1O1 - RecentintersetrtiDn have siqnificantl.y improveclvol urnes Eontinue ttr pose problerns in this
improvements to thi ssa{ety. Heavy traff i c
area.
13. EIr:f f tlreei: Drive,/Ehitrago and Northwrstern Eai. lroad Tractis-Blu{{ Cr-eek Drive was inproved by the trity of Chanhassen :nL9A7. This improvement along with the addition of lights andwarnj.ng arm5 has qrpatly i.,nproved safety in this area. Theintersecting angle o+ the roadway and tracl:s still Iimits ctearsight distance. This situation ,nay be completely resolved in thefuture i+ the railroad either distrontinues Lrse o+ the tracks oris ahandoned -
14. T. H. 7,/Lake l,li.nnewashta area - T_ H. 7 in north$restErnChanhassen al ong f-he north si de o+ Lalie I'li nnrwashta i. ntersec+_s anumber of local streets. Due to heavy traf+itr volumes,particularlv dutring pea!.; hours. turning movements in this areaare difficult. In this area. T.H. 7 does not contain lanesspeci+j.trally designed to accommodate +ree flowing traffic.
Road Cao tstrit ,/tronnert i ons:Def ici.encies in this category are
volumes orevident due to capacity problems created by excessi.ve
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due to connectj.on problems. Capatrity problems are also caused bya Lack trf proper lane r:hannpl i=ation. larl,: of signali=ation trrdue ts the frequentri/ of accessE|s. Specific examples of suchtrircurnstantres i.nclucje the +oI ltrwing:
Froblems alonq T.H. 5 wilI be trompounded in uptroming years due togrowth patterns along the corridor. E;<hibit 4T portrays thegrowth of 14 hourr tr-a+f ic volumes along T.H. g. UrithinEhanhassen. the average annual rate of daily traffic growth bysegment ranges +rom .6 to 4.5 percent per year.
At the pre5ent tirne. T.H. E is being improved. By 1?9O. T.H. g
will exj.st as a four lane divided highway +rom a point JOOO +eeteast (r+ Chanhassen's Eest bsrder to T.H. 494. A f991 letti.ngdate rs scheduled for reElacement of the E.M. St.p p.z p. Rai troadbridge =Buth a+ I,he ChEtnhassen CED. Also sEheduled is thewideninq o+ T.H. 5 f-o four lanes +rom Frest o+ trSAH 17 to thePEint =!tlOO feet east o+ Chanhassen,s pastern border.
Improvements that are currently L(nderway wi I I significantlyirnprove trcndLtions on T. H. =. It is e>ltreoely irnportant i.n t_he+utltre that f-he f,iti, contj.nue ttr ,non j.tor {unding levels to ensurethat current plans are implementrd. Additionally. the future
f uncti.on o+ T.H. = ig dependent on the construction of new T.H.?t:. [,Jithout neH :1:. T.H. E will again be qLrj.c],:ly overcapacity. even with the irnplementation o+ planned improvernents.
:. T.H. 1,:l1. - Trurnl: Highway 1r)1 is classt f ied as a temporarytrunk highway and as such. it has not received appropriations forany improvements with the e:{ception o+ absolute minimlrmnecessities. FECent State legisLation traIIs +or Hennepin Ctruntyto accept -iuri.sdictLon +or T.H. rol within county boLrndaries.Since a sLrbstantial porti.nn of T.H. lcrl is in Carver Col-rntl/ andchanhassen speci+ i cal I y. jLrri.sdlcti onal and +unctional continui.tyare major concerns that cot-(ld have rnajor consequentres for thecity. The jurisdictional problem is further coflipounded by theneed +or T.H. lfil improve.nents. The highway has signi+icantalignment and geometric problems particularly south of T,H. S.
f,. Fleasant View Foad - Pleasant View Roadrast./west connection between CSAH 17 and T.H.
the only
nor ther n
serveS
ro1
as
in
1. T.H. 5 - T.H. = is the transportation baEkbone o+ Chanhas'5en.lJsers of HiqhHay = are a$rare that elicessive congestion on thi=roLrte dtres not occur only during peek hours. Fortions of T.H. Iare overloaded for r-rp to I hours per day. Approximately 7!OOO to7!5O.) vehicle= per day is used to ju5ti+y a four lane fatrility.In 19E}9. T.H. 5 carried ?Or5OO vehicles per day at Chanhassen,seastern border. T-H, E is also uniquE because i.t carries"reverse commuting" patterns. Employment opportunities inEhanhassen attract workers who travel westbound durinq themorning hours and eastbound in the evening. This movernentcounterg Chanhassen residents who Hork in other locations in theTwin tritv area. most o+ Hhich lie east of Ehanhassen.
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Chanhassen. The eliisting roadway al ignment is inadequate inseveral areas. tharp curves, garages located st ..he riqht-of-wayIine. hidden driveHays and frequent wist-as o+ Ltrtus Lake whitrhserves as a distraction. alI cornbine to cFeate potentially
dangerous conditions. Previous ef{orts f_o improve Pleasant VieuJ
Road have been LrnsuEtressful . As a result. thE inadeqlraciEs ofthis route NilI continllE to intensify in thE f Llture as trafficvol urnes continLre to increase.
4. CSAH 17 - County Road 17 trurrently p):tends south to LyrnanEoulevard- In the future. it wl11 be possiblr to extEnd theroute south to Pioneer Trail. South of pioneer Trail. furtherextension iE not feasible due to existing develoBment and extrernevariations in topography. Therefore, Ehanhassens only reasonableopportuni.ty for a functional north./south minor arterial routelies in the imprsvement of the T.H. 101 corridsr.
5. Lake Eilev Eoulevard and liiowa Trail - On thE Hestern side tr+Lake RiIey. two neiqhbBrhoods developed with terrninatinq sul-de-sacs 4OO ieet apart- This situation complicates both qeneralaccElss to the area as well as the pravision of emergencyservi tres.
ur i. sd Bnal Cif ilt i n
t^rhich pass throLrqh the comfiunity and
Betrause thesE route= +all under acontincrity prtrblErrts tran occlrr. Routes
Chanhassen incLude, the f ol l owi ng:
3. T. H. 5 - I:=ries Eertatnlno l-_B T. !-1. = havepresented. The jurisdictional contlnuity of T.H.important to Chanhassen. Chanhassen will needmonitor MnDot plans {or this route as welI asedjacent munici.pal ities to ensLrre that T.H.function at the highesf- feasible level o{ service-
trontains a nurnber of roads
into other .nuni ci pal i ti es.
variety of ;urisdictions,o+ partitrular interest to
been prevl trLrsI y
5 i. s eii trEmel y
to cont i, nual I y
the desrres of- continues to
: Ehanhassen
1. CEAH 17 - Cor-rnti, Eoad 17 serves :ts onE of Chanhassen,s majornorthlsol.rth routes. Nithin the city. this route hes adequateright-of-way. sight Cistance. grades and setbacks to maintain a45 to =(-1 rni 1 e pEr hour sperd I i mi t - Flor+.h o+ Dhanhassen.however. th:s rosd f-akes a different +orm as it enters ShorewBodand E:{cel si or.
In Shorewood. Carvar ';ounty 17 beco,nes Hennepin Dounty g2. Tightsetbac,':s. poor sight distances. indi.vidual driveway accesses andreduced speeds =::1=t in this area. fts a result. theeffectiveness o+ tlSAH 17 as a northern actrEss to T.H. 7 isdiminished t]ncE it crssses Chanhassen.s border_
:. CSAH 117 - CEAH 117 is very similar ta CSAH t7_ The route+unctions ef{ectiwely Lrntil it reatrhps the ntrrthern portion trfEhanhassen whrre it's aliqnment restricts tra{fic movement.
t-12
TFAFFIC ASSIET.IHENT ZtrNES
The analyEiE end Frtrjection o+ regional traffic conditions istronducted uti l iring a technique l::ncuJn as tra{*ic assignment
u ones. Tra*fic assiqnment =snes (TAZ's) are defined geogra'phitralarEas $iithin which data such aE population! ernployment andhousehold in+t]rmation is co1 lected. This data is analyzedthrou-ah trompuf-er rnECeling techniques which results in +orecastso+ tre++ic ,novement between =ones. Utilizing this technique. itis ptrsEibIe ts projetrt travel demand sLrch as perstrn-trippredutrtions. person-trip attraEtions. intra=onal oerson tripsand motor vehicle data such as average daily trips and peak hourtrips. This data is valLrable in both local and regionaltransp0rtation plEinning.
Chanhassen is rontained within alI Gr part of srven di{+erenttraffic assiqnment zones. Zones 3=E! 848 and EE3 contain srnallportions tr+ f,henhassen and relate Frimarily tE trhaskts and EdrnPrairie. The remaining four =one= EJg. E4O! =41 a.nd 847 pertain
excl r-rsi vel y ta Chanhassen.
EOUSEEOL EI.IP LOIMEI{T
2000 2010 2000 2010
1810
6590
1590
10
2360
7520
2r't0
l0
1980
\20
1478
1?7
0
740
31 10
6tt5
05
lr5oo
240
39r10
280
ll0
1980
'r360
4433
500
0
610
25\5
540
5
3700
1980
20
1230
28
22
2000 2010
400
5200
ll50
50
5100T0T,1L 5359 l0ooo l2ooo 1300 4500
In ordFr to better qLrant:.f y traf+iE assiqnment =trne inf orrnation,the Year ?OOS Land {Jse and TransportE\tion Stt.rdy pretrared in 19S6subdivided Ehanhassen'g f oLtr ma-ior traf+ic assignment =ones int13J3 sub=ones. Eoundaries o{ sub=ones are consistent wi.th theMetropolitan Connci. 1's TAZ boundaries. Subzones andtrorre=ponding trip generati.ons are =hown En E:<hibit ST andFigures 3T and 4T. Detai led in+ormation on trip generation. trip
Fial.rre iT contains tra.tf ic assignment =trne in+ormation trsfitriledby the lletrDpol j.tan EounciI. The projections are inronsigtentwith those completed by the City o{ Chanhassen. As wa= ntrtEd i.nthe Land ljse chaptrr o+ t_his plan. thE City dBes not agree withthE l'letropol itan folrnci 1 . = projetrted potrulation for t?90 end
Figure 2T
cFAnEASSET SocIo_gcoIo!, Ic Dlrt
POPULATIOIV
IM
539
540
5ll t
5\7
I
.-.']E.lar
3
5
7
T-)
3
1l
rl:)::2
2
2
f
)?
It
,L
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i ii-"
U
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Exhibit 5T
SUB.ZOIIT BOUIIDAR IES
CHAI1HASSEII IEAR 2OO5
I-AND USE AI{D
TRAIIS POR IAI I OII STUOT
ERIUER I ASSOC IATES LTD.
HOISINGTON 6ROUP, IIiC.
8E 5r00F e ASSoC IArtS,INC
CITY OF CHAIiHASSTN
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Figure 3T
YEAR 2OO5 SOCIO ECONOI1IC FORECASTS FOR CITY GROI{TH SCENARIO
q' ,h 7.rnF
t
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
l0ll
t2
l3
t4
t5
t5
t7
t8
l9
20
2t
22
23
z4
25
26
27
?B'29
30
3l
32
33
Number of
H.rr rceh.ll .{c Panrrlafion
Nurlber of
Fmol oyces
Percent Serv i ce
Emol ovment
151
I 001
1001
1001
1001
01
07
t7
1001
1007
01
1001
1007
397
10otr
393
I 033
38
627
565
655
528
I t62
2792
lt4
l7l3
I 145
t397
1408
I30 010
8?O
300
l3l0
45
280
150
2000
l2l0
150
55
1000
I 19
t?9
589
509
?38
57t
35
100
55
186
475
79
515
574
491
490
1595
355
380
l 055
t218
713
t2t I
105
302
155
62t
t622
?65
t 473
t720
r 539
t641
5344
I 2 7
0 07
77
l3t
964
10
Source: Benshoot & Associates, lnc.
Pl{ Peak Hour
.ln Qsl
ADT Pll Peak Hour
Two llav LO Out
t-15
Internal - Externa I
A0T Pl,l Peak Hour
Two l,riav In Out
Figure 4T
YEAR 2OO5 SU8 ZONE TRIP GENERATION FOR CITY GROI{TH SCENARIO
Internal - Interna I
I
2
a
4
5
5
7
8
9
l0ll
t?
l3
l4
l5
t5
l7
l8
l9
?o
?t
22
23
24
z5
25
?7
28
29
30
3l
32
33
ADT
Two l,lav
3370
8l 50
646
4995
3430
4t54
4Lt4
2540
3158
13786
474
8850
140
4434
27A4
27t4
I 786
2?98
3202
381 4
2056
35r0
?68
772
770
L7 42
s 132
744
5t7 4
4432
325 0
3452
t3942
195
170
29
?88
196
238
237
82
98
126
l5
26t
t8
t52
95
I t2
85
78
l8l
2ta
t20
206
l5
44
36
r0l
282
44
212
350
187
199
729
108
263
29
l6l
I t3
t37
133
t17
187
8r5
2A
499
22
247
l5s
133
76
t29
107
t26
66
lr9
9
25
33
55
180
z4
t94
399
r06
I t2
525
505
t222
95
750
5t4
624
518
380
474
?054
72
11?
65
655
418
408
254
344
480
572
310
542
40
I l6
I t5
262
770
ttz
115
tz64
488
5r8
2092
?864
5928
550
1246
29t6
3540
3495
2t60
2584
ll7l8
402
?504
374
3758
2366
2306
l5l8
1954
2122
1755
3 058
228
555
654
1480
4362
632
4398
7 168
2't 52
2934
t 1850
t79
431
25
264
179
2t7
2t7
7?
85
372
l3
80
l5
r33
83
98
84
58
155
199
I l0
188
l4
40
3l
93
255
40
243
315
t7l
taz
6s0
9?
?24
25
137
95
r l5
I l3
137
173
76t
26
163
l9
228
143
I t9
55
I l9
9l
107
56
l0lI
2t
28
48
153
?0
165
354
90
95
446
t5 1639 391421 2417 t12t 2t20 20l0 l012 t251 54?2ll ll3319 19t? t2t4 t4ulll0 l0l5 1519 19l0 l0l8 l8
I
4
5I
27
4
I
4
5
I
z7
4
29
45
t5
t7
79
z9
45
l5
t7
79
Source: Benshoof & Associates, lnc.
Gross Trips
t-16
di stri buti on
Land Use and
and tra{+ic assiqnment can be fsund in the year ?OOETransportation study-
PLANNED IMPRtrVEMENTE_---------
PreviouE planning efforts by various jurisdictions have +scusedon Chanhassen- The result o+ these efforts i.s a serres ofplanned i mprovernents. rnany of whi trh wi t I hel p sol ve thede+itripncies identified in the Issueslsystem Def icj.encies sectiono+ this trhapter. Frior to making any additional systemrecommendat i ons. i.t is important to note e):i=ting plans.
The {oI I owi ng major j.mprovempnts
the trity of Chanhassen:
are proposed within or around
T.H. 5 - As wag re+erentrpd previously in this report. T.H. E iscurrently being improved by the Hinnesota Department ofTransportation. E.r, appro>limatelv 199;! T.H. E will exist ss afourr lane road +rom west of trSAH 17 in Chanhas=en to T.H. 494 inEdEn Frairie. This imorovement which will include turn laneswill help mi.trgate peak hour traf{ic congestion in bcthChanhassen and Eden Frai.rie.
C:'cs=town Hi qhwav,/Townl ine Road -This improvement Ni 11the e:<tension Tosrnline Road +rom I-494 trest to T.H. 101Ehanhassen-Eden Frai. ri e-l'ti nnetonka border. The e::tensionrot.rte will have a major imtract T.H. lol Hhich serveg
commcln Chanhassen;'Edrn Frair-ie btrundary north of T.H. S.
State Trun t:a v :1:- Cons+-rlrction o+ T-H.=12 alonq a ner,,aliqnment has been Lrnder csnsideration since thE early lg=al's.Cities alonq the carridor have r-ecently cooperated j.n providingfunding to prepare an envirenmen+.-al irnpact statement (EISI forthe project and are be,ginni.ng D++icial mapping proceeding= tosetrure right-o{-wa!, HithiE the trcr-ridor. plans call for T.3.=l:to be buitt as a- +trur lane +reeway facility,. As presentlyconCeivtd. tt^ro lane= would be ron5trLrtrted through Chanhassen fromT.H. 5 to T.H. 41 Curing the early 1990'8. While programmedaccardinqly. the proiect is not vef_ funded.
Delf--ESadLueqlle.tt_h_Av_e_a!.te - Detl Road in EdEn Frairie paral j.els
T.H. 1{-J1 and is c}.as=if red by the trity of Eden Fratrre =s acolletrtor rtrad.aay north to T.H. 3 and a minor ar+-erial solrth trfT.H- 5. It will provide a connert j.on +rom Totrnl.ine Foad on thenorth to PioneEr Trail En the south and will be pha5ed j.n
tronjunction with area dEvelopment- Depending upon i+-s deslgn andaEtress to the State Trunk Highway systEmt DelL Foad trould play aqreater or lesser traffic role then envisionpd by thE City ofEden Frairie-
FI - Lal:e Dr i ve i s a pl annedlocated south o{ T.H. 5. Lake Drivefrom T.H. lO1 tB Dakota Avenue.extension east to Del I Fioad and west to
entai I
at 1-_hr
cf +-hi s
a= f_he
eastlwest col lector str-eet
East was improved i.n 1?EI6Flans cal I for eventual
CSAH 17- This route will
t-17
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serve as an imEtrrtant col Iector f ar Chanha'sEen,E industri;.1 r-i.se=.
T 1(:)1
identi{ied the
i.nprovements north o{ T. H.and real iqnment o+ the
i. ntersection of T.H. 1r:r1better tra+ + i. tr +Low.
Planninq e{fsrts since lgEri havE consi.gtentlyneed for i.nprovernents to T.H. 1a-)1. Flanned5 consist prirnari Iy of rpcongtructionroute irnmediately nerth o+ theand t{est TBth Street ts e{fectuate
South trf T.H. 5. rnajor imFrovernents are planned. The lggoEornprehenEive Flan and the lor-rg 1666 Use and Tran-=portation StutdycallEd for the total real iqnment o+ T.H. 1O1 betweEn T,H. E and
Lyrnan Boulevard. In preparing a trorridor study sFeri+ically {or
1O1 to be incllrded in this plan. the City retrognized that sintrEthe realignrnent will invElve ttrta1 reconstruction. Ei Hniquec:pportlrnity exists to create T.H, 101 as an attractive approachto the ccmrnunity- The planned interchange o+ T.H. IlI andT.H.1O1 wiIl provide downtor4n Chanhassen and the industrial areaHith a new entrance. In Grder to maximi=e visl.lal and f Lrnctionelconcerns! T. H. 1(:)1 is planned f or reconstrlrct j.on as aboul evard,/par kway with a landscaped median area +rom new ?1? toT-H. 5.
T- H.= FRtrl'JTiirrE EOAD (trsAH 117 TO csAH 17) -A fronteqe rcladalong the north side of Highway E between trSAH 17 and CSAH 117 igplanned to gerve short term -rnd eventually long term developmentin the area. trnce thE +rontage road is censtrutrted. thE accPss
i nto La.l:e Ann Fark at T. H. g wi t I be cL osed.
T.H 7 {NOFTH I4I I.JNEI{AsHT&AREA} -A gtndy tr+ the entire T.H. 7cBrridor Has complel--ed in late 1?B&. Various alternatives werGlidenti+ied ts improyE f-hp corridor aLong thr north sidp o+ LakeI'linnewashta. The alternatives invol.ved a variety of streetclosLtrps and re-routirigs in thE reEidential areas east ofHinnewashta Parl':way. The goat o+ the recommendations is toredutre the total nLrmber o+ intersectitrns along thE routr therebyimprovina tra++ic f1ow. At the pre5ent time. Chanhsssen and theother trqmmunitj.es Ellong the trorridor are revieu,rinq the
retrommendations f{]r {ntltre i. mpL ementati on.
-l-.]!lf - The tli nnesota Department o+ Transportati on has had along standing interest in realigning and extending T.H. 41 southto and acrogs the Ninnesota River. TB detr. hswever. there areno plans to actually implement a new road etong this alignment.This aliqnrnent is identified on thp Carver County Transportation
PLan as a. "study and/or reserve right-c+-Hay,, trorridor.
DEi.,XT.ghJN - In 1987t rnajor street iftprovpments wElre begun indowntown Chanhassen. Improwements included reconstrlrction o+West TEth Street and the real:.gnment of T.H. lol. Additionally,a npb, entrantre into the downtor+n arEa west o{ existing T.H. lrjlis also olanned. These imtrrBvements l,Jill signi+icantly j.,nprove
bEth +L{ntrtisnal ac=ess tsnd the ovEri{l1 aFpearantre o+ the area.
t-19
CSAH 14 (FIONEEE TRAIL) -A portion o+
1O1 i. s sEhedul ed for real i qnment
pro3ect h,i11 remove e::isting trL(rves
feet east o{ T.H. 1Ol.
Fioneer TraiI east o* T.H.
in 1988. The i mprovement
lotrated approximately 15OO
t-20
Traf+ic on cha.nha==en'E raadway system wiII trontinue to increasedue t., new csmmerciat! residentiar and industrial development andchanges j.n socio etronomj-E condititrns. The impact o+ adEedtra+fic will bE most evidBnt on the trj.ty's ma5or streetsgprimarily minor a.rteri.als and col lector routes.
EEtrDI1}4ENDED SYSTEI,I
Exhi bi t 7T
for anetjtrr
rel at i vel y
In othrr
porti. on ) .year5.
identi{ie= both existing and prtrjected traf{ic volumesthoroughfares. In some instances. inEreases arpminor and are within the capaci.ty o+ existing rsads.instance= sl-rch as T.H. E and T.H. 1O1 (northern
i nEreases a+ l=r7z ta ?t_rtz rnay strtr r over the nent lE
In order to ensure that traffic contrrrnE are addressed thoroughlya.nd comprehensi vel y, the Transporta.tion trhapter o+ thE ChanhassenEornprehensive Plan containg a recommendEd r.adway system for theyear ?(:,OO. This sy=tem is the result o{ both current and pastplanning efforts incLL(ding the 1?Erl chanhas5en cornprehensive plan
and the YEar SOaJ= Land lJse and Transportati on Str_rdy. Therecomrnended syste.n is shown trn exhibit ET.
The Year SrlO= Land Use and Transportation Etudy trontainpddetailed analyses E+ many of the routes and intersectionstrtrntained in the Eecommended Systern. hlith the excepti.on o+ theintersections alonq T.H. S. all intersectiong in the reEomrnendedsystein ere, expectEd ttr operate at a 1evEl []+ service tr or betterduring peak hELrr ccndititrns in r_he yrer E.]OO-?O{_-}E- Speci+itrcomponents of the system intrlLrdr thE following.
T. H. 1(-'l t /T- H.':1" I F]TEF:trHAN E=- E:rhi bi t ?T presents the year
=aJ{,=Fll peak hELrF f orecagt_s at the proposEd T. H. tO1/T. H. 31?interchange. The capacity a.nal]/-sis of the ramp inter5Ectitrnsindi.cates that they are expetrted ta operate st 1evels o* servi=e
A.
The I'linnesota DEpartment {]+ Trinstrortati.Bn has reviewed theproposEd 1(11,/:1? interchanqe Eind hEis found that it is acceptablebesause it prtrvides improved access tE Ehanhassen and reducesvelumes on Del1 F:oad and T-H. 5- The exact-- configuration o{ thei nterchanqe r.ri. 1 t be determi ned r,rhen 1 aVout sl tprnat i ver arpprepared and {r-tl 1y reviewed by MnDot.
T. H 10 1 NAF:TH DF T H - T-H- 1(-r1 between T.H. :1I and T.H_ Eis c rrently inadequate to itrtrommociate elrpect-_Ed tr-a{f ic iIr theytar ?OOO-?Or-l= ( up to I 5. O(i(i veh i. c I e5' pEr da.1/ ) - Based uponestimated wolLrmes, a 5? foot rDadway wi 1t be required toe+fectively accommodate traf{ic flow and would allow thrflexibility (]+ rither a 41ane roadway or a = lane roadway ,,^rith acenter two way left tlrrn land and wide shoulders. If aboul evard./par kway is to be tronstructed. additional spaEe will. berequired to acconmodate e landscaped median.
\._..
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Exhibit 7T
YEAR 2OO5 AVERACT DA ILY
TRAFFIC
CNANHASSEII YEAR 20l]5
LAN[) USE AIID
IRANSPORTATIOII STUOY
ERAUER & ASSOCIATES LTD.
NOISTNGION GROUP, INC.
BENSNOOF E ASSOC IAIES, INC.
CITY OF CI]ANIIASSTN
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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
t-22
?f i?fril!I ll t-
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ll
dfY OF
otAt*rqssEN
Recommended
System
Ma jor Routes
lntersections
Study Corridor
o
oooo
Exhibit 8T
o
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oo
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,
I
-riI 1^
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,l-:. : - - it++r.'i_J
7
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1924 2148
15 341295
19
'5
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Note: This Drawing Is A Schematic To Il lustrate
The Traffic Projections. Decisions 0n The
Design TyPe (e.g. Diamond 0r Folded Diamond)
And Layout Are Subiect To Further Engineering
Anal yses '
1
N
I
Scale
Ir
-tl22
6
CHANHASSEII YEAR 2OO5
LAND USE AND
TRANSPORTATION STUDY
YEAR 2OO5 P.I'I. PEAK HOUR
FORECASTS OII PREFERRED
ROADI,IAY SYSTEM AT T.H.
lll/T.H.212
Exhibit 9T
BRAUER & ASSOC:ATTS LTD.
HOISINGTON GROUP, INC.
BENSHOOF & ASSOCIATES, INC.
T.H. 272
No
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
t-24
T. H. 3/I .H- 1(}1/NEST 79TH STFJEET - Exhibit 1DT presents the pt,peak hour foreca=ts +or these intergections. trrith the 79thStreet tronnetrtion to T.H. 5. the intersetrtion of T.H. 1Ol andT-H. 5 can operate at a level sf service C./D with the provisionof {our lane appi-aaches on T.H. E and three }ane approaches onT.H. 1O1. The intersection o+ Wpst 79th Street and T.H. 1O1 i.sexpected to aperate at a level of service A lrith two laneapp-oaches on each I eq.
At the intersection of the 7?th Street connection with T.Hthe capacity analysis indicates a Ievel tr+ service tr withlane approaches on T.H. 5, a two Lane approatrh on the solrthand a three lane approach on thp north Ieg (exclusive le+tlane. through-left lane and right turn lane).
. 5,
+our
1eg
turn
Exhibit 11T presents a conceptual layout of a nev,, conneEtion toT.H. 5. A decigion on the acceptRbi. lity of such an alignment hasbeen deferred untir additional downttrwn deveLcpment ociurrs and amere e:ract veri+iEation o+ the forecagted traffic volumes isdetermined. l"lnDot has indicated that at a mi.nimum, right turnsin,/ol-rt only arEl atrcEptable and cor_rld be constructed rntronjlrntrtion with the T.H. E upgrad:.ng.
The proposed new T.H = conneE+,i.on requires a ra.j. lroad trrossing.Frelimi.narv analyses of this roadway indicatp that a gradeseparatEd crossing is not feasiblE due tt3 topoqraphy andavailable land arets. Therefore, an at grade .ro=sing *ilt U=necessary whitrh will rEquire the approval of the trommissienEr ofthe Department o* Transltortati on _
Freliminary desiqn dEtails 6f this intersection trarl for a --.6 to4Q +trot wide roadway to accommodate traf+ic tlcw. A f,6 +oot w1dersad creates onp wide lane in each direction, aIlowing thrEughvehicles to bi-pass turning vehicles. A 4rl {oot roadiay yiouldallEw a center two way le{t turn land.
CSAH 17,/T.H.5 f.. tr SAH 17 /[^IEST TETH STFEETthe IOOO-?O05 FH peak hour forecasts at theThe inter=ection of CSAH 17 and T,H. E is pa level of Eervice D,/E with fEur lanE approj.s e){pected that re{inernents to thE signaland Iane assignments will allow intersectiowithin the level o+ service D range.
- E:<hibit 1?T presents
se two i ntersecti ons_rcjected to opertste at
achEs on eatrh 1eg. Ittiming! signal phaEing
n operati on to remain
At thE i ntersetrt i on of CSAH 17 and l,Jesr- 78f_h Street . theintersec+.i.on i.s e:{trected to operat-e at a level o+ serviEe C hriththree lane approaches on CSAH 17 (le+t tlrrn 1ane. throLrqh laneand throllgh/riqht on the strt-rth 1eg) and two lane epproaih*= onWest TAth Street. A queuing analysis Has per+orrned at thislocation to determine the netressary =pacing between trlest TElthStreet and T.H. 5 to ensure that queued vehitrles r{ould notinter*ere with intersection operations. This anarvsis indicatedthat the current separation o{ approximately f,EO ieet should beincreased to 6(10 +eEt fron the center line o+ T.H. g to the
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CHANHASSETI YEAR 2OO5
LAND USE AND
TRANSPORTATION STUDY
Exhibit 1OT
YEAR 2OO5 P.H. PEAK i{OUR
FORECASTS OlI PREFERRED
ROADIIAY SYSTE!{ AT T.H.
s/GREAT PLAINS BLVD./ll. 79TH ST.
BRAUER & ASSOCIAIES LTD.
H0ISINGToI| GRoUP, IllC.
BENSHOOF & ASSOCIATES, INC.
5
I
CITY OF CHANHASSEX
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-27
CHANHASSEN YEAR 2OO5
LANO USE AND
TRANSPORTATION STUDY
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
YEAR 2OO5 P.H. PEAK HOUR
FORECASTS ON PREFERRED
ROADI,IAY SYSTEH AT C.R.
L7/I .H 5/V. 7,8TH ST.
Exhibit 127
Frontage Road
Level 0f Service = 0/E
BRAUER & ASSOCIATES LTD.
HOISINGTOI{ GROUP, INC.
BENSHOOF & ASSOCIATES, INC.
r-28
center 1i ne
Str-eet nsrth
scheduled +or
Nest Tgth Street thr oltghprEsent l ECat i Bn.tronEtruction sEast]n.
real i gni nq trJest TEthThis ifiprovement i=
l'f U lr-rl I FJTEFJSECT I trI,I ( HE AL r Et'I.iEr'.rT )- The transpDrtati {fnplan advocates the creation of a new inter5ection to modi{v thefunction (,+ tsro existing inters*ctiGns. The nee., intersectiEn
wot-tl d relccate north btrund 1r:!1 traffic Etwa:/ +Fofr] the existingintersetrtion and it urould rerrtove the intersection at DakotaAvenLre in its present form.
The troficep'.LlaI rerlignment (]+ the T-H. S,/T-H. 1()1 intersectien isshor.rn on E:;hibit 1.1T. The realignment of T-H, 1il1 provides threediEtinct bene{its. It preserves an adeqI.rate level of service Btthe intersection of T.H. 5 and T.H. 1Ol. Secondly! i.t improvEsthe north*ssr-tth continui.ty tr+ T.H. 1u1- Finalf i-. it :1 leviatesthE impacts of throl.rgh tra+fitr on T.H 1(]1 on the downtoHn arEa.
Exhibit 14T presents the FH peak ho|.rr +orrcasts +or the threEnew inf-ersections in this aree, Eased r-rpon the :.ane assiqnments
Ehtr$rn on the layourt (E;:hibit 1=T). it i= e:rpected that thE LakeDrive East/T. H. 1$1 ifttersection will trperate at a Ievel E{Eer-*itre A! the trlest Tgth St,,/T.H, ta_}l intersection at a 1Elvel o+servitre tr and T.H. 5,/T. H. 1O1 will operate at a level .]+ servi=rDlF.
liey elements o{ the
i ntr L Lrde the ftrl1cHing:
conceptual layol.rt at this new inter=ecticn
A f or-rr wii/ interrection at t{rest 7Bi_h Street r,rith therailrDad track= traversing the intersectian at an angle_ Thislayout provides a dEsired connection to TBth Street easr- o* T.H.1O1 (avriding circui.ttrus routings and use o+ T.H. E for localtrips to./+rtrrn the industriel area ts the east). This angledrai lroad trrossii-lg! whiLe not tyaical . does eccl-ir at sthErlBcal--i.ons in thE state and is ctrncetrtiral 1y actrep!-ablE ttr the
I'li nnp.gota Department o+ Transporteti. En.
Ri ght i n / tr-rt-- trn 1 '/ access i s trrtrtrD5edmEvEment atrcess ig in+easible due tolecatitrn and the new intergectitrn.
FteasEnab i .r'
TBth Etreet and
at
the
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spatring between
The prooosed
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operat i on .
Etraiqht approachEs to the key intersections with
T. H. 5.
nEi*, intersection exists at thr present time only inAdditiona.l re+inement o{ thr design involwingwill be neceissary ts ensure e{{ectiwe, sa{e traffic
A full right turn lanp with a prot_etrted island on the past
apFrBatrh o* T.H. 5 iE not inclr_rded in t]rder tD ava:.d potentialweaving and sf-Eitrl:ing problErl}E bEtween T.H. S and t{rst TgthStreet.
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CITY OF CHANHASSEI{
BRAUER I ASSOCIATES LTD.
HOISINGTON GROUP, INC.
BENSHOOF & ASSOCIATES, INC.
CHANHASSEN YEAR 2OO5
LANI) USE AND
TRANSPORTATION STUDY
Exhibit 147
YEAR 2OO5 P.M. PEAK HOUR
FORECASTS OII PREFERRED
R0AD'IIAY SYSTEI4 AT T.H-
5/T.H. 101 (NEl.t I[TER-
sEcTI0fl )
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t-3 1
T.H. 1r-) 1 (SOUTH BF PROPOSED T.H. ?12)north./south acEElss through the City ofproposed ?l?. the route either +unctions atis planned for irnprovement over the ne;<tof nEw I1?. however, the +atr o+ this road
T.H. l0l is a ltey
Chanhassen. North ofa acceptable level or
10 to 15 years. South
is much less certai n.
If T.H. lO1 is pxpected to function e++ectively in the year 3r_r(loand beysnd! rBajor improve.nents will be necessary. Funtrtional andjurisdic+-ional issLres are addressed in subsequent €ections o+this plan. Folif-ical and design related obstRcles must beovercome i{ T.H. 1(-ll is to remain a viable route thronqh thesollthern porti on u{ Chanhassen.
T.H. 41 - Long term plans call for the eventual realignment o{ aportion of T.H. 41 in southern Chanhassen. This i mprovernent ispart of the retrorn.nended system. however, it is not anticipatedthat tronstrutrtion o{ this segment Hill be completed by ?O(:)O.
LAHE LUtrY F:BAD -The portion o+ Lalie Lucir Boad betl{een CSAH 17and CSAH !. 17 was reconstructed and realigned in 1987- Long terin,the f Lrrther extension ol this route t*estward to T.H. 41 isplanned. Although Fart o{ the recommended systprn. this
i mprovemenr. i s vi eu,red as bei ng post ?Oal0 due to the I atri: c+sanitary sewer availability in the area.
I!-H.IIEELL_FIOLA - Ppal: PH hour f orecagts +or the i ntersecti on BfT.H. 5 and DeII ftoad are presented in E:rhi.bit 15T. Ey the vearSOOO-?O05. the intersertitrn iE expectrd tE operate at a level ofservice E. The malor +actor in keeping the level of service at Erather tha,n D or better is the amount o{ through tra+fitr on T.H_
-32
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BRAUER & ASSOCIATES LTO.
HOISiNGTON GROUP, INC.
BENSHOOF E ASSOCIATES, INC.
CHANHASSEN YEAR 2OO5
LAND USE ANO
TRANSPORTATION STUDY
YEAR 2OO5 P.Il. PEAK HOUR
FORECASTS ON PREFERRED
ROAOI.IAY SYSTEI,I AT T.H.
5/DELL ROAD
Exhibit 157
t-3 3
FIXICTICIIAL CTASSIETCATTON
Funct.ional classification involves the definition of roadways by function,prior to identifying design characteristics such as pavement widths, speedlimits and access controLs. It is a valuable tool in cunprehensive planning
because it ensures that land use decisions are considered in the
transporta tion plannirE process.
The Metropolitan Counci I uses ftrnctional classification to define those routesthat are Frt of the rctropolitan roadray system. They also use it to relatetransit service to roadways. Functional classification is important to
Chanhassen for planning purposes and because it relates to jurisdictional
classification whicfr is subsequently discussed in this pLan.
The functional classification system breaks roa&rays darn inEo a hierarchy of
five categories. As the least intensive classification, local streets prwide
acc"ess to property and as such, are intended to serve limited geographicareas. Collector streets connect neigtrborhoods within and between subregionsard provide nobility between residential neigtSortDods and other lard uses.
Three classifications of arterial roadrrrays exist. In a general sense, these
roadways carry higher volumes of traffic at greater speeds with fewerinterruptions. Roads with an arterial designation frequently are used forintra-tate travel as well as for npre regionally or sub-r6gion511y oriented
cqrmuter trips.
Figure 5T depicts the Metropol i ta n Council's F\rnctional Classification System&iteria for Roadways.
In addition to lfeEreoli tan Counci I Criteria, Chanhassen I s Conprehensive Plan
also analyzed the follo*ing factors in defining flnctiqlal classi f ica t.ion:
1. Current functional and jurisdictional plans and poLicies of theCity, Cawer Corntyr and lfnET.
2. Eorecasted average daily traffic volufips on the roadmy systsn.
3 Function of the roadways in meeting regional needs versus loca 1
needsi for example, how much traffie on a particular roadway is
Iocal traffic versus traffic throtgh the City of Chanhassen.
tibeds arrl abilities for fr.rrding capital and operating expenses.4
t-3 4
Figure 5T
FU CIIONAL CLASSIFICATIOT! SYSTEM CHABACTEAISTICS FOE BOADWAYS
lnt rirt Fr..w.y M{or Artlrirt Mi@ Air..i.t Col.dd
36 mj16 d.ponding on
mioor rnerial spacing,
and l@tion ol exitting
l-3 mil.s deFrdinq on 0.5.2.0 mil6.
art.ri.h and minor.rte.i.t.,
rta.sar, $ip d.nsity, ..d
ln n.t06lcomhunity
de€lopnent.nd not
0.25.1.0 niles
On .d!B3 ol delopmenr
Maior t,.lf ic gen.ratori LiDiied dir.ct land acei.. Som timitarion on direcr
lend a@.r
Freesranding Growth
CenteB and BuralTown
Cohmercial, indunrial, Ac.e$ ro agricJtturat 6s
a.dhiqhdeBiry r.$dential w'th lhis on rowdenrrv
s!8. No acces3 ro single- .esidenri.t.
Gr.de i.p.rated or h'qh. Trattic signati.nd cro$clpeiry conrrolled at{rade strer sbo3_
4 w.y stops and 3ohe
Bamp metering, traltic
riqnal iiming, no land
trearment lor ransit,
Samp m.terinq, treflic
sign.l timjng, naginq of
r4onnru.tion, land.cers
B*r,ictcd .s nE3ery, Restricred I ner3!.ry
Sertricled .r nec.is.ry. 8*tricred a3 nect5Ery Pe,hitted ar @e$ary
Stop ii9nt, culde-ses,Trafiic signel iiming,l.nd Conra^uity, numb€. ot
..ce.s rpa.ing, preler€ntiat tane., rrarfic signat riminq,treatmnl lor transit. land acels.
Sugqelted federalupp€r timati for inte.stare frecwayr
aod maior a.teri.h combined:
Urbao l0 FErenr
8ural4 pe.ent
limitarioni f or interstar€
f re*ay., Daior a.ieriah
combiru{t: Urbar 15.25%
Rural6-12%
limitarionr: Urban 5-10%.
Rural 20-359(
urban and .u.al service
C.nnects two or more
secondary connecriont
ou$tare;complemen13
high-voluhe co(rd06,
ConoEt' Eighborhoods Connecti bloc&s wirhin
sDecif ic acrivirier wnhin
homoqeneous land trse
P.ovides hiqh levelot
mobility wirhrn urban
aid .u.al service areag
and to maior our5tare
Provides high level of
be1wen neaghborhood3
Providei mohiliry wirhin
mighborhooG and orher
hohoq.neou5 land.ui.
tiewayi, maio. a eriats,
.neri.lr: no direct land
To inle6rare l,eeway3,
minor anerialr and high-
volume collecro.s: no
dnecr laod acce$ ercepr
major naflic generaroB.
To interlrate teew.ys,
lnaior arteriah,orher To colleciors, orher rocat
Lons trio3 ai hiqh soeedw'thr...d throuqh rhe
Mediumdisranc€ to tong
t.ip! ar high ro mode.ate
speed wirhrn rhe urban
area. Eipr.s rran3it rrip5
Primarily *rves @llector
and drtrribution lun.n6n
lor th. a.teriat iyrrem.r
low sD€edsi l@l ranrir
@ll€crion and dirtribu
tionj thort r.ipi at low
ln nalural cohmudity
dev€lopm and noi
Whhin ighborhoodt
.n t oth.r homoge@u.
li6itations: Urban 65-
80q., Rurar 63.75oi,.
To minor arte.ials. orhet
collecto.s. l06l srreet5,
Medium ro.hon r.rptai
mode.aie ro low spee&;
t-3 5
Exhibit l6T presents the reccmrnended functional crassification system. llhilea few minor inconsistencies between designations of roadways as eithercollectors or minor arterials occur between city and county prans, thi.s
reccxnmended system is qenerally cpnsistenE with current. Ca rver County and Cityplans with one major exception - T.H. 101. T.H. 101 is currently de- igna Ced aminor arteriaL by the City of Eden Prairie and a local roadiay by- Carver
County.
Based upon the analysis of the Metropoli tan Council criteria, the projected
volurnes, ard the ftnctions T.H. 101 performs, it is reconnrended that T.H. 101
be designated a minor arterial. T?re principal reasons for this reog.merda tionare:
The projected year 2005 daily volumes are aE t.he upper limit orexceed the recommended guidelines for volumes carried by acollector. This limit is 15r000 daily vehicles; the forecastJ onT.H. 101 north of T.H. 5 indicate daily volumes up to 20,000vehicles.
2. The_roadway performs an important regional function connectirE subregions in the area. This is evidenced by the forecasts whichindicate approximatel.y 40-45* of the daily vehicles are trafficpassing thro:gh the strdy area.
3. T.H. 101 is recommended to have access to T.H. 2I2, a najorarterial. The tiletropolitan Council generally recommends t.hatintercfranges occur at minor arterials, n6t colledtors.
4. The City has historically limited direct access to T.H. 101 and willcontinue to do so. Through the Cit.y of Chanhassen, T.H. 101intersections are generally controlled by either traffic signals orstop controls on the cross streets.
The -following is a brief revie"r of some of the major routes that are part ofGunhassen's roadnay sysEem:
IIiITERI{EDIilTE ARTBIAI.S
Higtnray 7
Highway 7 serves as one of chanhassen's major links to the Metropolitan area.f\ r. oi$aV carries substantial vehicular traffic with movement. generallyuninhibited by signals or nra jor street crossirqs wiEhin chanhassen is limits.To the east, Isvrever, High,ray 7 passes ttrolgh Minnetonka ard northern Hopkiniwhere,significant congestion occurs during peak hours due to frequentsignalized intersections and commercial -d6velopment. necentfi, -J
com,preh.ensive p-Ian for Ehe upgrading of T.!. 7 was prepared. To date,rmprelEntation efforts have been hampered by disagreements between variouicommunities along the corridor. rn chanhassen, the plan calrs for turn ranesard minor local street closures.
1.
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Functional Classifica
CITY OF
o{A/t {AssE\J
IASE IAP
I Major Arterial
-
Minor Arterial
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4
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High,vay 4l - Hazeltine Boulevard
Ihe rrestern portion of Chanhassen is bisected by Hiqhday 41. This route is animportant link beEween Higtrray 272 alo(g the Minnesota River and Highway 7 tothe north. Higlnrray 41 passes through the unseerered port.ion of the city wherelittle develcpnent Eesently exists ard no significant further development isanticipated until aft.r L990. There are no significant safety cr congestionproblems along the exisCing roadtray.
Hiqtr,ray 169-212 - FI ying Cloud Drive
Eor discussion purposes, Higfmays 169 and 212 have been grouped toge ther since
t.hey form one continucus roadway. T.11. L69-272 is a two lane undividedhighway with no access control on the segrnent withio Chanhassen. This roadcarries substantial "farm to market" truck traffic originating in westerni{innesota and bound for destinations throughout the metropolitan irea.
CSAH 17 - Powers Boulevard
Powers Boulevard has l]een designated as a minor arterial. CSAH 17 connectsnorthern Chanhassen and Excelsior to T.H. 5 and eventuaLly to new T.H. 212.
Axtreme topography and existing developnrent precludes the further southerly
extens ion of this rouEe south of county Road 14.
T.H. 101 - creat Plains Boulevard
T.tl. 101 was discussed previously in this section. Since it hrill not befeasible in the future to exterd CSM 17, T.H. 101 remains as the City,s onlyreasonable alternative to maintain one full ncrth/south arterial.
CSAII 14 - Pioneer Trail
Pioneer Trail senres as a minor arterial c-onnect ing chaska to existirg 169 inEden Prairie. Minor Arterial status is consislent wit.h designat-ions inadjacent rmrn ic i pa li t ies.
T.H. 2T2
T.H.2l2 is a plaaned intermediate arEerial which is proposed to run
diagonally throlgh the southern port ioo of Chanhassen. The rcute which runs
from Norwood to T.H. 494 will- be a four lane divided facility with controlled
access. Plans call for bro interchanges in Chanhassen, cne at T.H. 101 and
the other at CSAH 17. A! the present time, c-onmun i t ies along the corridor are
beginning official mppinq proceedings ard an envircnnental impact statementis be ing prepared.
II}rcR ARTERIIT^S
t-3 8
T.H. 5 - Arboretum Bo:levard
OLLECIORS
ltlOtrraV 5 is the nost important roadway in Chanhassen. ft serves as the nnjorlink to Ehe rEtropolitan area and because of its location adjacent. to the
popula t.ion center, it provides access tc a large nunber of people commuting toemploynent in other ciEies. Because of this, High{ay 5 carries large volimesof traffic ard at peak hcurs, is frequently congestd ard ineffective.
Within Chanhassen, the flov, of traffic along Highway 5 is relativelyundisturbed. The roadway which consists o€ two lanes with the excepEion oatLE four lane port ion at the intersection with Hiqh\ray 41, is interruptea Oytraffic signals at 41, CSAtt 17, 101, and Dakota Avenue. There are nosignificant cannercial or residenEial uses accessing directly onto Highway 5.To the east in eden Prairie, however, this situation is somewha t different.
Eastbourd traffic on T.H. 5 typica lly connects with either 494 rr HennepinCounty 52. Frqn the Chanhassen border to 494, Higln*ay 5 conta ins signals indseveral direct accesses by commercial and indust.rial land uses. Thissituation, combined with higher traEfic volumes in Eden prairie, causessignificant traffic delays duning peak hours.
rn 1987, l'lnmr began a series of improvements which wilr significantly enhancet.he function of Highway 5. The first stage improvement.s call for theconstruction of four ranes frcn wallace Road to prairie center Drive in EdenPrairie. The second phase calls Eor construction of a four lane divided
roadway from lvest of CSAH 4 to 'dallace Road. The final phase of the projectwhich should be completed by 1993 calls for construction of a foulr fane
road$ay from west cf CSAH 17 in Chanhassen to rdest of CSAH 4 in Eden prairie.
Collector streets seree as connect.ions between oeighborhoods ard provide
access to minor arterials, other collectcrs, and local sEreets. hlit.hin
Chanhassen, Bluff Creek Drive, Minnevrashta Parkway, 101, West 78th Street.,
Lyrnan Bculevard, ComEy Road 117, Lake Lucy Road, Lake Drive East, frontageroads in eastern Chanhassen, and Kerber tsoulevard are ca Eegorized as collectorstreets. Each of these roadwa!.s contains two travelad lanes and have somedirecE land access. These rcutes, as well as addiEional ones designated inthe future, are likely to ca rry higher traffic volurnes as urban develcpment.
continues.
t-3 9
JUft ISDItrTIONAL CLASSIF ICATItrI'J
Functional trla=isifi.cation i-= a signi+ j.cant trriterion in theanalysis o+ jurisdictional classi+icatitrn. In generaL! majorarterials are under the jurisdictiBn o+ the State; rnintrrarterials are either State or county roadways; col lpctors areEithEr Eounty or municipal roadways and Iocal roadwayg are underthe -;urisdiction o+ thE applicable municipality_ Other criteriawhitrh a+fect lurisdiction inElude historical jurisdictton,provisions for local atrcEiss, trontinuity and funding {or capitaland (]perating ex pensrs.
In general , the current Surisdictional responsibi titirs (state.
county and loEal ) are generally EonsiEtpnt Hith the abovetrriteria and with thr recomrnendrd roadway system. The e>lceptionto this is T.H- 1(11.
The recommencied roadway Eystem calls for substantial impr.,ve*entand realignment- to the, T.H. 1O1 trtrrr-idEr end it designates theraad i.-= J- rrr i. nor srteri al . As Ei resul t. i t i s appropri ate thatT-H 1O1 be a rlcunr,y or Stete roadway. F:e4ent discLrs=icns i{1ththe State snd trount7 have net resolved thi= i=sLlE.
T.H. 101 in Hennepin treunty has recently been part o+ adisc.rssion o+ a comprehensi.ve iurisdictional trade bethreenHennepi n Count.y and I'lnDot. Essenti al t y. onE hal { o+ T. H. 1rl1north o{ T.H. 5 is in Hennepin Countyr the rernaining half is inChanhassen which is part of Carver County. The roadway south ofT.H. 5 is entirely in Chanhassen (Carver trounty). T_H. 1O1 is aternporary state i-runk highway whitrh means that it will see onlyminimal t[nd= +tri- ,nei. ntenance.
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A I RPOFTE
Despir-e the lack o{ airports in Chanhassen. the trity has twoprimary avi.ation rantrEFn=: first. that physical. obstrr-rciitrns arpcontroL led a-nd secondly. seaFlane operat_iEns. At the presenttime. the tal lpst man .nade structnre= within chanhassen are thetrity's waf-er towers which average 1f,5 {Eet. structures under ={lo+eet are not considered obstrutrtions under State rules. Radiotowers are the only potential structures that may extreed the IOOfoot threshold. I+ proposals for towers occur, the city willrequire that they co.nply r+ith a1 I State. Federal and loca.IFEqui rements.
Lakes [,li nner4aEhta and Eiley are u=ed by Eeaplanes at the presenttime. To date. therE have been few Ctrnflicts between boettra-ff ic and seaplane Lrsage. Eenr-inued Ltrage in these areas isnot viewed a5 a ma5or i=sue due te the smal 1 number af aircra{tand o{f peak htrLlr Bperation b,y their Ewners. I+ in the{uture. i* the number sf aircraft increa=es ur the Fotential. +orserio(-rs usage conflitrts occurso the city may work hrith statE andregional authari.ties to 1imi.t or ban seaplane Lrsage.
TFANS I T
The pretredj.ng sectitn= u+ this plan havE cGnEideredtransportatitrn primari 1.r' j.n the conte){t o+ the pri.,rateauttrmobile. Altho'-rgh pri. ''ate trars c.lmprise the mo=t c'rn,nonlyused mod? o+ tran=p'r{--at i on +or trhanh.ssen rEsident=. +orms o+mass tranEj.t- are slsg iirrport;nt. Twr {orms of fliass f_rsnsit.busses and light rail, are sprcifitr components o+ this plan_
BUSSES - In late L9SS. f,hanhassen 5oined the cities t:+ EdenPrairie and chaska i'i the creation tr+ the southnest Area Transitcommission to provide tr..nsit- ser.rice l:nown as the southwpstMetro. At thE present time, the system operates tHo types o+services and tHo rsutes.
Services includE +ixed schedule rtrutes and a dial-a-ride Frtrgram_Diar-a-ride serviceE are pre=ently unavaila.ble in chanha=Een.Fixed schedule routeg include SLJS=J which +olltrws T_H. 41 +romChasl.;a to T.H- 5 and follows T-H. E ea-=t into Eden Frairie wrpass through the dtrHntown Chanhassen arEa. Fourte Shri6trircl-rl.ator route whitrh enters downtou.,n Chanhassen from thEr^rith a connection ts Eden Prairie via Val ley ViEut Road.trirtrulatcr systern essential. ty linl:s downtown Chanhessen toEden Frairip Ernter and the Elen La.l:e arra of Minnetonka.
tha
is a
east
The
the
Chanhasgen's contract wi.th Chaska and Eden prairie is a ;oint
There are no rxiEting or planned airport= within the tri.ty o*Ehanha=sen- Eommercial air service is avai labLe at rwin citieEIn+-ernaticnal Airport :nd generar aviation is avai Iabre atFlying Cloud AirFort in Eden Frairie. Flying tr1ol-rc, isa.pproliimatEly 4 mile= frDm Ehanhassen.
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CITY OF
CHANHASSEN
M INNESOTA
Seaplane Operations
Exhibit 177
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LIGHT FA] L TRAiIEIT {LET }Liqht rail transit is a mode tr+transportaf-ion th*t is currently being considered +orconstrnction in thr Twi.n Erties Metrcpotitan Area. In 1?g7,Hennepin ctrunty rscei.ved a*thori=ation {rorn the stat= Legislatureto prepare a Comprehensive LRT SystErn Flan +or Hennepi-n trounty.The Hennepin trounty Board intends ttr impleinent Iight rail transitin the coLrnf-)/ by 199,.1. Towerd that end. the f,ounty establi=hedthe Hennepin Colrnty EegiEnal Rai lroad Authority to adrninister, atleast. the in j.tial stage o{ the syste.n. Hennepi.n Eoun}_y ownsrai Iroad right-of-way from downtown l,linneapolis r_o VitrtEria.Other trounties in the metrtrpolitan area have {olIowEd HennepinCountys lead and have also established railroad authorities.
Early system planning has identi{ied two routes. one or bof_h E+whitrh rnay Lrltirnately be e;<tended ints Chanha.ssen. These reutesare Ehcwn on Exhibit lET. Of the two. the northern sliqnrnent hagrECEived f-he hi?hest pritrrity. Although both a1 iqnments provi.depEtential hene{it_= ts l'lhanhassen residents! neither sianif icantlyimpact-= the city in tErrfi= o+ land use and direct accessibility_There are nB prtrpEsEd station siteg within Chanhassen,s bsrders.
The nGrthern al ignment whirh ha= an identi{ied st_stisn tnExcelEitrr provides t-he rnBst bene{it ttr Chanhassen =i-nEe theCitv's pDtr|llatiGn resides trrlinari Iv in the nDrthern hatf o{ thecommunit'r;. The southern al iqnrnEnt travels a.long the bluff areain sol.rthErn tlhanha=sen which is prEsently ol-ttsidE, o* the HLSAline area and ntrt likely to see Lrrben developmen*, r{ithin thEtimeframe o{ ihis plan, As a result. it is viehred as somewhatof a. csmmnting ront-e from Ehast:s t-o downtoHn l"linneapoli= andvarioLtE stations alt]ng the rcute.
I+ the nsrthern rolrte is ewentr-tal 1y irnplemented. Chanhe-ssenresident= H1=hing tE LisE thE E'yEtem will have to reiv ,]n b!-rstransit trannections f_o Encelsoir (if available) sr wiIl requirePark and ride Eites in thE, vicinity a+ t-he st_ation. The tritywill continl.(e to monitor the i,nplementation of light rail andstatiBn plans t-o assess thpir adequacy and their iinpact ofte::isting private trsvel patterns and bus transit systems.
powElrs agreement- renewable 0n an annlral basis. The citv willtronti nuE ts moni l-_ or the Ef +ecii venes= of t-hE Southhrest l,lrtroprogram in providinq rost e+fetrti./e transit Eervice to the trityE+ Ehanhassen.
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Over the past +ew years, however, implementing plannedtransportation pro5ects has become an increasingly diificulttask. This has occurred primarily due to reductions i.n federalspending hrhich means that state and local governments have +eweravailablE rErsourEes. This pattern has placed added pressurEt onthp budqets o+ the Minnesota Department of Transportation and theCity of Chanhassen.
The planned improvements to T.H. 5 and T.H. 3lZ are ervidencethis trend. Ehanhassen along with adSacent municipalitiesapplicable trounties hag recently funded a portion o+ the costthE preparation of the environmental impatrt rtatement (EIS)
T-H. 41.r. Additionally, the gity al lotrated :iEO. OOO over ayear period to e::pedite the design and eventuel construtrtionthe T.H. 5 irnprovements. Chanhassen also contributed topreparation of the T.H. 7 trorri.dor Study that was completed
1986 .
of
and
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in
The City of Chanhaggen recognizes that transportation project=over the ne;:t 13 years will continne to require lotral resources.This raises two immrdiate conEerns: l) that local .noney be usedto f Lrnd pro;ect= that principally ser.;e Iocal residents and ?)what sources of additional funds will be avai lable?
Chanhassen's roadway system can be fairly easily classified intoroL(tes that serve priflrari ly local residents suEh as lr:erberEonlevard gnd routes that serve regional and statewidp travelersin addition to lotral residents. I.H. S and T.H. 1O1 are eitamples(]f routes in the second category. Foutes that serve Iargevolumes of regi.onal and Etatewide traffic are the princi.pal
responsibi. lity o+ the l'linnesota Department o{ Transportation andin rome trases! Earver trounty. Therefore, trity participation infunding improvements to such routes will be Iimited.
Limi.ted participation in regional rourtes and total participationin local routes will continl.te to reql-rj.re additi.onal funding bythe City of Chanhassen. Sonrces o+ such funds may inElLrdeChapter 479 assessments! the general fund, tax increment+inancing and imFact +eEs. Impact +ees, which require rnajor newdevelopers to +und portions o+ directly rel.ated transportationpro;dcts are beginning to be used by Twin City areamunicipal ities. This concept wi I I be closely reviewed todetermine its applicability to Chanhassen.
I I'IPLEHENTAT I ON--___--
Chanhassen's transportation system has been the subject ofvarious Etudies since 1?68. Since that time. the system h"= =="nsigni+icant improve.nents such as the construction of trSAH 17,improvement of Lake Lucy Road, construction o{ Kerber Boulevard,reconstruction of downtown streets and thr upcoming improvementsto T. H. 5.
t-45
I rao I ementa t e! ef the ReEornmended S ystern
The overall general recommEndation of this plan isthe Fecommended System found on E).hibit BT by thenumber o+ spetri+itr tasks will be fol lowed in orderthis task.
to i.nplernentyear 2Or:O. A
to accoopl i sh
Interaoencv Coooer at i on - Chanhassen will continue to work with
!h" I'linnesota Department of Transportat i. on, the l.letropol itanCounci l. Carver trounty and adSacent municipaiities to implernentroadway and transit improvements i.ncluding a light rail system.
T.H. 21? - The City will assist the I'linnesota Department ofTransportation to faEilitatp the timely completion of thigprojetrt.
T. H 1(}1jurisdiction
trontinue to
j uri sdi cti on
wi 1 I a5sLrme
Two important aspects o{ T.H. lO1 need resolution:and real i gn.nent./reconstructi on. Chanhassen lrillwork with the State and Counties to resolve theissue and Lrpon adoption of the Comprehensive plan,
a Iead role in discussions.
H. "1?Earver
gi nce
r^ri I I
rout e
Hhere
In coniunction with the development (]f speci+ic plans for theupgradi ng o{ T. H. 5, the Ci ty wi I I work wi. th l,lnDot to ensureconsideration o+ the realignment of r.H. 101 and its ner$rinter=Etrtion wi.th T.H. E. HnDot should take a lead rtrIe insecuring approvals for the new rai lroad crossing netressitated bythis rea,li.gnment. The City r,,rill take appropri.ate efforts toensure ths.t ri.ght=-of-way tor the realignment and t{est TBthStreet connecti.ons is either atrquired or reserved.
The eventual i.rnprovernent o* T.H. 1O1 south of proposed T.should bE the responsibility of either the State orCounty. This route has been designated as a minor arterialit serves an i,nportant regional +unEtion, The tritycooperate with the State and County in upgrading thisthrough the reEervation of right-of-way and fLrndingpossi bl e.
UeEt--:9th -s!rg-e.t.-!plllles!-t on - The constrLrction of trjest 7?thStreet will bE a City pro5ect with the exception o+ thej.ntersection with f-H. S. The City will work with l,lnDot as plans+or T.H. 5 evElve tcl ensLrre installation of. at least. a rightin./right oLrt atrcess at this Iocation and to ,natie provisrons foran ultimate full movement access. Obtai.ning approval for thE newrail. crossing wilL be the responsibility o+ the City.
Fundinq Sources - chanhassen wiII continLre to rnvestigate allso'-rrces of federal , state. regi.onar. rocal and private sources oftransportation +unding. Additionally, the City will support andprc}vide funding where possible for local lobbying groups seekingtransportation improve,nents providing such irnprovements arelidenti.+ied in this plan and are consistent with city priorities.
t-46
S.]{=Lgrn_MgE-Lt_!]r_1_!_S - Transportati on i mprtrvernents need to l::eep patrEwith urban develop.nent. T.H. 5 is a current e:{ample o{ a routethat is opereting far beyond reasonable capacity. This impact_sthe residential . trom.nertrial end industri.al seqmEnts of thetrorn.nunity. In an atternpt to avoid aggravating existing proble.ns
and trreatinq future defiEiencies. the city will closely monitoralI developrnent proposals. Detailed trirtruletion and access plans
will be reqnired to assess the impact o{ proposed rnajor nav,development5 on both the existing and +uturr transportationsystems.
APPENDIX
DESCRIPTION OF LEVELS OF SERVICE F
TRAFFIC OPERATIONS ?R INTERSECTION
Level of Servlce A. No loaded cycles and Few are evenclose to loaded. No approach phase ls fulty utll izedby trafflc and no vehlcle walts longer than one redlndlcation. Typlcal ly the approach appears qulte open,turning movements are easily rnade, and nearly alldrivers f ind freedon of operation, thelr only concernbeing the chance that the I ight wl ll be red, or turnred, when they approach.
Level of Servlce B, Represents stable operatlon.occasional approach phase is fully utillzed and asubstantlal number are approachlng full use. Manydrivers begln to feel somewhat restricted wlthinplatoons of vehlcles.
An
L eve I of Serv i ce D . Encompasses a zone of increasingrestriction. Oelays to approaching vehicles rnay besubstantial during short peaks withln the peak periocr,but enough cycles with lower demand occur to permit-periodic cl earance of developing queues, thus prevent-ing excess i ve back-ups.
Level of Serv i ce E . Represents a capacity condition,the most vehicles that any partlcular intersectionapproach can accommodate - There may be long queues ofvehicles waiting upstream of the lntersection anddelays may be great (up to several signal cycles).
evel of Serv i ce F . Represents Jarrned condltions.
Eack-ups from locatlons downstream or on the crossstreet may restrlct or prevent movement of vehicles outof the approach under consideration; hence, volumescarried are not predictabl e. Speeds are reducedsubstantial ly and stoppages may occur for short or longperiods of tlme because of the downstream congestion.ln the extreme' both speed and vol ume can drop to zero.
Adapted from 'rHlghway Capacity tlanual ", Highway ResearchBoard Speclal Report 87, High!,vay Research Board, 1965.
I
Level of Servlce C. Stable operatlon continues.Loading is still intermittent, but more frequent.
Occasional ly drivers may have to walt through more thanone red slgnal lndication, and back-ups may developbehlnd turning vehicles. Most drivers feel somewhatrestricted, but not objectionably so.
CITY OF
EEI&NIIASgEN
}.,1EI,TORANDUM
Planning ComrnissionCity Council
Barbara Dacy, City
February 11, 1988
Scott County Lumber Company vs. City of Shakopee
In order for the City to deny a conditional use permit,substantial evidence and facts must. be proven to siloli Lhatthe conditional use permit would have an adverse imoacE onthe health, safety and welfare of the surrounding aiea.
6s0 couLrER DRrvE ' P'o' t?;Ji3.;-,"rTiNHAssEN' MTNNESoTA 5s317
P 1an ner
?o:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Attached is the Court of Appeals case syllabus regarding theabove-referenced litigaE.ion. It is being forwarded to [.hePlanning Commission and City Council for your information. Thecase reaffirms basic policies in reviewing conditional use permitrequests. These policies ale as follows:
I
2 The City Council cannot base its decision to deny a con-ditional use permir so1e1y on adjacent progerty ownerrsdesire not to have the use withi;r the neighborhood.
I have spoken to the City Attorney about Lhis case in relarionto recent applications processed b!, Chanhassen. He states thatthe City does have adeguate standards and measures to Llse ia eva-luating conditional use permit requests. Ile al,so assured us thatif an applicaEion met, setback requirements or other condit'ionsimposed by the ordinance for specific types of uses, he Aoted theCity would sti1l have the ability to deny the conditional use iff act.s could be presented to show that it would be detrimental tothe surrounding area -
8 flN^NcE\.'iitClrixEf,cEi C6doarDD.&/Clt[OrliJ6t FRIDAI, JAIIUARY 15, T['
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Call a professiorul who can provide obleaive advice. Cail
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We rtrrll prov'de you wirh rhe names and phone numbersol lhree CPAS who are expeienced in meeting yourparticular need.
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