07-20-88 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COT{MISSION
WEDNESDAY, JULY 20, 1988,7:30 p.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
Frl4
and one outlot and toon property zoned RSF,at the south$rest cornerAddition, cary Reed and
into one i ndus tr i aIIndustrial Officef Hwy. 5 and
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Subdivision of 7 acres into t$ro lotscreate a new 64th Street cuI-de-sac,Residential Single Family and locatedof West 64th Street and Hwy. 4I, Reed
HSZ Development.
Subdivision Request to subdivide 7G.5 acres into 2 lots of66.5 and I0 acres on property zoned A-2, Agriculturaf esiiteand located aL 775 liest 96th Street, Tim Eihart.
Conditional Use permit Request for SuperAmerica Station, Inc.to construct an 80 square foot pylon lign on property zonedA-2, Agricultural Esrate and located at 615 r.iying CioudDriver Roman Mueller.
Subdivision request to subdivide 70 acreslot and t. r.ro outlots on property zoned IOp,Park and located at the southwest corner oAudubon Road, Mcclynn Bakeries.
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4
NEW BUSINESS
5
OLD BUSINESS
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
OPEN DISCUSSION
6. Comprehensive plan Implementation Chapter.
2.
Site PIan Review for a 161,700 square foot building foroffice and food processing on property zoned IOp, induscrialOffice Park and located at the southwest corner of [lwy. 5 andAudubon Road, Mcclynn Bakeries.
CITY OF
EHANHAESTtrI
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATB: JuIy 20, 1988
C.C. DATE: Aug. 8, 1988
CASE NO: 88-17 SUB
Prepared by: Dacy/v
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Preliminary Plat Request to Create One Outlot and
Two Single Family Lots
and Adjacent to W. 64th Street, Iitest of andto TH 41
PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT:
South of
Ad j acent
Roger Zahn
IISZ Development
123 No. 3rd St.,Minneapolis, MN
Suite 808
s5401
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
RSF, S ingle
7.3 acres * 7-,2o -B I
RSF & BN; single family & vacant commercia
RSFi single fami Iy
RSF; single family
RSFi single f ami ly
Municipal services are avai lable.
Family Residential ' 7-:- t{ a|l
property contains exist.ing residences
raises in grade from west to east.
Low Density Residential
ADJACENT
AND LAND
ZONING
USE:N-
s-
E-
w-
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CIIARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
The
and
LOCATION:
Gary and Jan Reed
2467 W. 54th StreetExcelsior, MN 55331
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HSZ and Reed Subdivis ion
JuIy 20, 1988
Page 2
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Asst. City Engineer
Public Safety Director
Park and Recreation
Building Department
Attachment
Attachmen t
Attachment
No ad.verse
#1
#2
#3
comments
On May 3I, 1988, the Council approved the partial vacation of W.64th Street subject to the creation of a cul-de-sac into the Reedproperty, provision of a Ieft turn lane for westbound TH 7 forthe turn movement int.o Oriole Avenue, construction of an 8 footbituminous trail in the vacated right-of-way and finalIy, Lhatthe developer assume all expenses regarding reconsLruction of thestreet, relocation of drivervays and submitting the necessaryfinancial sureties as part of the development contract. The CityCouncil discussed at length the necessity of whether or not west64th Street needed to be reconnected to TH 41. The Councilreviewed three options: 1) reconnection of West 64th Street to
TH 41 along the Gowen,/Reed property linesi 2) cul-de-sac west
64th Street at the immediate southwest corner of the commercialsitei and 3) cul-de-sac into the Reed property. The Council
chose the third option creating the cul-de-sac into Che Reedproperty ( see attached minutes).
ANALYS IS
BACKGROUND
On October 6, 1986, the City Council approved a metes and boundsIot split request to divide the west.erly 1.7i acres of the sub-ject property into two single family lots. The Councilrs action$ras contingent uDon platting the two lots when the remainder ofthe Reed property is developed and platted.
On April 25, 1988, the City Council approved the rezoning requestof the southwest corner of Hwy. 7 and Hwy. 41 from OI, OificeInstitutional to BN, Neighborhood Business for the first readingand also approved the subdivision and site plan request subjectto several conditions (see attached minutes).
In compl-iance with Council direction, the applicant has submittedthe proposed plat application which creates a new West 64tshStreet cu1-de-sac into the Reed property. In compliance $rith theCouncil's action in 1986 regarding the metes and bounds lot sptitreguest, the applicant is also correctly indicating the platEingof the t.rro lots previously approved. The property around the
HSZ and Reed Subdivi s ionJuly 20, 1988
Page 3
proposed cul-de-sac is proposed to be platted as an outlot as theReeds will be pursuing development plans in the future. In themeantime, the applicant, HSZ Development, is filing this applica-tion in order to comply with Council's approval prior to piitiatvacation of Vlest 64th Street.
Also proposed on the property is the creation of a stormwater
management pond on the east side of the proposed cul-de-sac.This is being provided in ord.er to comply with the WatershedDistrict requirements and the city's requirements for on-siteretention. It is then proposed to have a stormsewer pipe
constructed along West 64th Street and then south along theOriole Avenue paper right-of-way to its terminus at the edge ofthe city park property. The proposed storm sewer plan accom-
modates not only the runoff that will coming from east of TH 41but also the runoff from the commercial site and Reed property
( see Engineering report).
AIso proposed in compliance with Council act.ion is the provisionof a 8 foot bituminous path in the reconstructed West 54th Streetright-of-way. A 25 foot trail easement should be reserved along
Ehe north boundary of the plat from the cul-de-sac to TH 41. Asimilar 25 foot easement will be reserved from the HSZ site forthe remaining portion. The Park and Recreation Commission recom-
mended that park and trail fees be accepted in lieu of parkland.
The Commission also stated their desire to construct a trailwithin the existing TH 41 right-of-way.
Although it is typical that a subdivision pattern is proposed inconnection with a preliminary p1at, given the Councilr s actionreguiring creation of a cul-de-sac into the Reed property, thisapplication is merely to comply with the Council's direction.The property owner should be made aware thai upon replatting thata different street or utility plan may be required. The sub-divider at that point would be required to mjke those improve-
ments.
The plat indicates a proposed screet name ofCircle. It is recommended that 64th Streetnot changed in order to avoid confusion andaddresses.
64th Street West
remain as named andto retain existing
RECOMMENDAT ION
Planning staff recommends thefollowing motion:
Planning Commission adopt the
"The Planning Commission recommends approval. of Subdivision#88-17 to create one outlot and two single family lots in theWest 64th Street cu1-(le-sac as presented on the plat stamped'Received July 13, 1988, and subject to the following .oniitio.r",
HSZ and Reed Subdivision
July 20, 1988
Page 4
1 Reservation of a 25 toot trail8 foot bituminous trail in the
of-way.
easement over the proposed
vacated 64th Street right-
2 The applicant shall enterthe City and provide thesureties to guarantee the
vement.
into a development contract irithCity r.rith the necessary financialproper installation of this impro-
3 The applicant sha11 obtain andthe Watershed District permit.comply with all conditions of
4
5
Utility easements located over the proposed sanitary sewerand watermain between the existing West. 64th Street right-of-rday and the proposeC cul-de-sac right-of-way shalI be ihownon the final plat. These easements sha11 ba 20 feet in widthminimum.
6
The applicant shall provide the City r4rith a temporary ease-ment agreement which !.vi11 aIloh, entry onto the Reed propertyfor construction of the cuI-de-sac and ponding site.
The proposed ponding site Iocated at the southeast. quadrantof the proposed intersection of West 64th Street and the pro-posed cul-de-sac sha1l be located such that a 5-foot bufferexists betlreen the existing utilities in West 64th Street andthe 100-year high water elevation for the ponding site.
A temporary construction easement will be reguired from theMinnesota Department of ?ransportation such that grading maytake place rrithin the right-of-way owned by the Minnesota
Department of Transportation located adjacent to thenortheast corner of the parcel.
A1l erosion controls sha11 be in place prior to the comnence-
ment of any construction, and shal1 remain in place throughoutthe duration of construction. The developer sha11 periodi-
cal1y inspect the erosion controls and make any necessaryrepairs promptly.
The plat sha1l maintain the 64tsh Street sEreet name.
ATTACHMENT S
Memo from Asst. City Engineer dated July 14, 1988.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated June 22, 1988.
Memo from Lori Sietsema dated July 13, 1988.City Council minutes dated April 25, 1988.City Council minutes dated May 31, 1988.
City Council minutes dated October 6, 1986.Application.
Preliminary plat stamped "Received July 13, I988..
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CITY OF
EHINH[SSTI{
6e0 couLrER DRrvE. p.o. r?J;iI.;-|JIINHASSEN, MTNNESoTA s53r7
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FROtrt: Larry Brosrn, Staff nngineer 71$,
DATE: July 14, 1988
SUBJ: Preliminary PIat Review for HSZ and cary Reed
Planning File 88-17, SUB, HSZ and cary Reed
This property is located just south of the HSZ site which waslocated at the southvrest quadrant of Trunk Highway 4l and StateTrunk Highway 7. The developer of the HSZ site and the ovrner ofthe southern subject parcel , Mr. Reed, have reached a tentative
agreement such that the itSZ site may be developed. On I'tay 31,1988, the City Council approved the vacation of West 64th Streetcontingent upon the developer of the ESZ site and the owner ofthe parcel , Mr. Gary Reed, reach an agreement for the reconstruc-tion of a cul-de-sac through Lhe Reed property. The 7.0 acresite is cornposed of rolling topography with an existing home onthe southwest corner of the parcel.
Sanitary Seirer
Municipal sanilary sewer service is available to the site by anexisting 8-inch diameter sewer main which runs along west G4thStreet. The appropriate utility easements should be locatedalong the proposed sanitary sewer main between the proposerl cul-de-sac and the existing West 64th Street right-of-way (refer t.oattachment 1) .
Waterma in
t'trinicipal water service is also available to the site by anexisting I0-inch aliameter watermain located within the Existingright-of-way of 'riest 64th Street. Similarly, easements atong iheproposed watermain between West 64th Street and the proposed cu1-de-sac will have to be shown on the final plat
The applicant has provided for a 50-foot right-of-way for thecul-de-sac. This is in accordance to the the City's standard forurban construction.
rtnw,tauT#/
Planning
July 14,
Page 2
Commi ss i on
19 88
Roadway
The maximum proposed street grade is approximately
pared to our Cityrs recommendeal standard of 7.01.this is acceptable.
1. 8t as
We find com-
that
Grading and Drainage
As per staffrs recommendation, the applicant has shown the adja-cent HSZ grading plan along with the proposed grading plan forthe Reed property. Staff felt that it was important to have boththese items shown together to analyze how they fit together.
The Reed Addition calls for minimal amounts of grading forconstruction of the cul-ile-sac. The HSZ site located on theleft-hand side of the plan set proposes a storm rdater retention
pond located immediately east of the proposed cul-de-sac. Thisponding site should maintain a 5-foot buffer between the 100-yearhigh water line and the existing utilities located within theplatted West 64th Street right-of-way.
Tf HSZ were to stop construction on the Reed property, the Citywould need to draw down the leLter of credit posted by the devel-oper and complete the construction. For this reason, the appli-cant needs to provide the City wiLh an easement agreement for thecul-de-sac and ponding site.
This shovrs the installation of the storm sewer system on thewesterly side of the proposed plat which extends approximately
200 feet south of the Oriole Avenue/West 64th Street intersec-tion. Although the proposed storm water retention system main-tains the predeveloped runoff rate, it is recommended that the
storm sewer pipe be extended to Lhe edge of the City property
within the Herman Field Park. The exact alignment of this storm
sewer section shall be addressed as part of the plans and speci-fications review process.
Recommended Condit ions
IT
be
is therefore recommended that the plat for the Reed Addition
approved upon the following conditions:
1 The applicant shall enter into a development contract with
the City and provide the City with the necessary financialsureties to guarantee the proper installation of this impro-
vemen t .
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions of
the Watershed District permit.2
Plann i ng
July 14,
Page 3
Commi ss ion
198 8
3
4
5
Utility easements located over the proposed sanitary sewer
and watermain between the existing West 64th Street right-of-
way and the proposed cul-de-sac right-of-way shall be shown
on the final plat. These easements sha1l be 20 feet in width
mi n inum.
The applicant sha11 provide the City with a temporary ease-
ment agreement which will allow entry onto the Reed property
for construction of the cul-de-sac and ponding site.
The proposed ponding site locateil at the southeast quadrant
of the proposed intersection of west 64th Street and the pro-
posed cul-de-sac sha11 be located such that a s-foot bufferexists between the existing utilities in West 64th Street andthe I00-year high water elevation for the ponding site.
A temporary construction easement will be required from the
Minnesota Department of Transportation such that grading may
take place within the right-of-way ownecl by the Minnesota
Department of Transportation located adjacent to the
northeast corner of the parcel.
A11 erosion controls shalL be in place prior to the corunen-
cement of any construction, and sha1l remain in place
throughout the duration of construction. The developer shallperiodically inspect the erosion controls and make any
necessary repairs promptly.
Att ac hmen t s
1. Utility Easement s
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CITY OF
EHINHIS$EN
{
88-17 SUB
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Barbara Dacy, City Planner
FROM: Steve Madden, Fire Inspector
DATE: June 22, 1988
SUBJ: 64th Street Cul-de-sac, FiIe No.
Upon completing the site plan review for the ne',{ 64th Street cu1-
de-sac, I have found thae it meets the minimum requirements as
recommendetl by the Uniform Fire Code.
tfrrufastrr#*
I
(
MEMORANDUM
TO: Barbara Dacy, City planner
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinato
DATE: July 13, 1988
SUBJ: Gary Reed Addi t ion
690 COULTER DBIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
,9
The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the Gary Reed propo-sa1 at their June 28, 1988 meeting. The Commission was gl;d tohear that the City Council requested an off-street trail alongthe West 64th Street alignment. They ale also ar,rare that arequest to vacate Oriole Lane has been submitted and i.rould liketo discuss trail possibili.ties on a future agenda.
As for the Reed property, the Comrnission recommended that parkand trail fees be accepted in lieu of parkland and trailconstruct.ion. They also wanted to remind the Council that atrail is desired a1on9 Highway 41 and such should be constructed.within the existing right-of-way.
rfuturlaT*=
Park
June
and
,o
Recreation Corunission Meeting
1988 - Page 2
Sietsema. 2g is what ere usually have.site on the road and itrs straight down.trees at road level .
The grade here,
Yourre Iook ing
you go tothe tops
as
at the
of
Hasek: Yes, but Lot 2 would st j.Il be taking the same . . .
Sietsema: That's why I'm recommending a trail on the west side ratherthan the east side. Werre not taking any trail easement from there.
SITE PLAN REVIEW: HSZ AND GARY REED PROPOSAL.
Sietsema: If you recall, a while back HSZ Developnent came in with aproposal talking about a street alignment for West 64th SEreet. What theyfinally decided on r.ra s to co:ne into the cary Reed property, vacate thisportion of the street, this being TH 4I, and have a cul-de-sac that would
9o onto the Reed property. The subdivision of 7 acres into two singl-efamily lots, one outlot and the West 64th Street cul-de-sac. That ireawould be served by Herman Eield which is located Eo the southwest of thedevelopment and Minnetonka Intermediate School is across TH 41. The CompPIan does not identify this as a park deficient area. A trait easement,the Trail Plan calls for a trail along TH 41. If you recall at our lastmeeting I noted that we were accepting a petition from homeowners in thearea to vacate the oriole Lane right-of-way and at that time the park andRecreation Commission made a motion to let the planning Commission andcity council know that we would be interested in at reast a 20 foot traileasement over the existing right-of-way to get a pedestrial walkway toHerman Field. Oriole Lane is along the west side of thj.s properEy soright do$rn here would be Herman Field. The petition has altually come inand if the commission would rike to, $rerve gotten a lot of feedbick fromresidents in the area. rf the commission wourd like to review it. in moredetail, r could schedule that for our next agenda. They're expecting that.to go to City Council in August.
Hasek: Do we have time to take a Iook at iE?
Sietsema: Their concerns are where the right-of-waytrail and who's going to be allowed to use it. Howmotorized vehicles out and what vegetatjon r"rilL cometo see that further, I can scheduLe that at the next
and what kind ofare we going to keepdown. If you'd li ke
agenda.
wi Eh location of treesMady: That would be fine. ...together for us Loriand stuff.
Hasek:
hray out
I think most
the re .
of the trees are right on the edge of the rj.ght-of_
Robinson moved, schroers seconded that the park and Recreation commission
recommend to accept park and trail fees in lieu of parkland and traildevelopment. Also, to pursue trail development on the west side ofI'rontier Trail for the Schlotte Addition. A1I voted in favor and themotion carr ied.
Park
June
and
28,
Recreation Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 3
Sietsema: If they're within the...right-of-way becauseour problem coming down into that... On that alignmentwe didn't hrant to take out the mature vegetation.
Robinson: Is that why these people are here?
Sietsema: Yes.
Robinson:
shouldn I t
Mady: You mean a
Sietsema: I don't
hear ing?
if they have any comments or not.
that was part ofto Herman Eield,
you can be looking at, you haverre get that proposal back, youto say once we have the proposal
And we
we?
should get their concerns are and address them I think
publ ic
k now
Mady: It might help to hear them noe, so
some idea what theyr re looking for. Whencould come back and this is what we havein front of us.
sietsema: Before they courd do that, why donrt r finish. The 64th streetright-of-way, Hsz is going,to be putting a trail through the old alignmentand along the north side of 54th street in this location. The road iight-of-r.ray on TH 41 is wide enough to accomodate an off-street trair. we 6iaask for that out of the HSZ development to the north and they havepreliminarily approved the construction of such a trair. Therefore it isstaffrs recommendation to accept park dedication fees in lieu of parkrandand trail fees in Lieu of trail development.
Mady: Is there any
pending...?reason why we should go along on any of this
Sietsema: No, because Oriole Lane is not part of rhis development.just abutting it so I r.ranted to bring it to your attention because itadjaceot to the development, to this proposal.
Itr s
was
Mrs. Reed: Could you show us, she's talking about the
TH 41, vre canrt see from the diagram. Is she talkingor the Reed property?
right-of-way along
on the HSZ property
Sietsema: we want a trail aII the
to TH 5 so we would be building an
TH 41 right-of-way. we rrouldnrE be
your property.
TH 4l aII the way downtrail along TH 4I within thean additional 20 feeE of
way alongoff-street
requ j ring
Gary Reed: AII the way to TH 5?
Sietsema: Yes, from TH 7 to TH 5. That'sState, there is adequate width there so weadditional. we did address that same issue
development so I just vranted to bring iE to
goal and accordi.ng to theneed to acqu i re
vre sah, the HSZattention that werre
our
don I t
whentheir
Park
June
and
28,
Recreation Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 4
going to be continuing that
r i gh t -of-wa y.trail but we vronr t be requiring any additional
Robinson moved, Schroers seconded that the park and
recommend to accept park dedi.cation fees in 1ieu offees in lieu of trail development for the Gary Reedvoted in favor and the motion carried.
Recreation Commi ssionparkland and trailsubdivisi.on. A11
into the
Sietsema: I hrill schedule tbat foE either the l2th or 26th ofIrIl be sending out a notice to you on the Oriole Lane.
Gary Reed: There viill be a storm sewer extending down Oriole
Herman EieLd area and itrs possibly, you can follow that.
JuIy and
sietsema: Yes. Thatts very possible. r don't know if we'd go right overthe top of it but it might be within the 20 feet.
Gary Reed: There's a 2g foot easement for that r assume. Do you take itdor.rn the middle of the road or do you jog from side to side?
Mady: We try to go around all the big trees. Within the 20 feet.
sietsema: The easement itself will. be 2a feet wide but the actual trailwiII be 8 feet wide so hre can meander within the 2A feet to miss anything.
Resident: You just sEay withi.n the right-of-way of the way the road goesyou r 1l be fine.
Sietsema: Right. !,Ie r^ron,t go outside of that at all.
Gary Reed: we vacated the street and then they have to have 2g feet.
Mrs. Reed: ,..would they take more? Out to 50 feet?
sietsemsa: rt just depends on the vegetation. we could recommend thatwerre going to take the whole 50 feet for a trail easement and thenmeander an 8 foot trail within that 50 feet but we wonrt take additionaloutside of the existing r j.ght-of -way.
Resident: I donrt think it is 50 foot wi.de.
Hasek: OrioIe Lane?
Resident: yes.
Hasek: I think i trs 50 foot.
Resident: ...I was looking at that map for a wh j. le and it sajd 30...
Park
Ju ne
and
28,
Recreation Commission Meetingf988 - Page 5
Sietsema: WeII, $rhatever it said. 3g or 5gmatter. We just have to look at it closerthem in July, I'II have that information_
at
and
thi s
when
point it doesn'tI bring that back to
Resident: r eras just wondering, is it rearry necessary to have a traildown there from that end of the park?
Sietsema: Thatrs what theyr ll be discussing in July. They!11 want todiscuss that more in July.
Resident: Because there,s a dead end road down there now.
Gary Reed: There's an entrance into the paxk 4gg feet erest.
Resident: Can I ask one thing? Is the purpose for the junior high to usethat park?
Sietsema: No.
Mady: You mean classes? No. They have
Sietsema: No, it would be to provideentrance will be off of Forest.
their own play facility.
neighborhood within. . . our parkthe
Resident:
about 300
Hasek:
beca usestreet
Ann andlook at
r./e ' re go i ng to be
406 feet.
So
or looking at a trail going to the other park
Sietsema: It will just be a second access. A pedestrian access.
Hasek: A house has tvJo doors. A park can have tgro doors too.
sietsema: we also have an easenent over to the piper Ridge subdivision sothose peopre can walk into the park and itts just so that not everybodyhas to drive to the park.
- The peopre within warking distance can safeiyget to the park rrithout warking on the street or across private properti/.
Mady: So when you bring that back to us Lori, they'll be notified?
Sietsema: Yes.
Mady: Did you have any
hand? Okay. You r lI be
Gary Reed: I
barricades so
guess one other thj.ng, I'd like to
there I s no motorized vehicles-
see if you could put up
other concerns that $re shoul,d know about beforenoti fied then .
Yes,
tha twith a
I thj.nk thatrs going to have to be looked at real closelywould be an invitation right there. Therers a dead endtrail into a park. We've got the same problem around Lakehad to fence it there so I'm sure werll be taking a closewerve
that.
'8fl, -u..r, r4eerine -(rp.ir 2s, reBB
placed in another holdinl-*.5.r" ;;?"rt*?fi:.i"j.{ii:,Tg
3ffi l:? }lI ploio:opv wha r rhev sai d
can se. ou. ao"r.z-"G;;"ii[ ;=L:::-; ffi."1;';:iTni: ffl;rT:"lffSTl L"
!,lalror Hami lton: I t}tin}
e''r#1i*.$i'T*" Ut'x+ H:3{='=-"t-Y: " '.:'! ""
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here in a r.eeks .r,.-**"lln]iry shorE order. F:H*".d"S# '$*.PaE Farrell: Next EEeting.
5i:'ffiiff ,fjl=ffijtl]rffiiit3[ ju.;. *,." rpr Eyine to deray ],"u ar
mffi #"ffi #,ffii,,Lffi f,T"ff ,":H3-ffi r,H.)*m,H[&:'fl ^*"
ff i:.fl:*'il. lliil'il"H,ffi?ii"#Ti"S=ff IHH:, and Appea,s so
!€ discussed it. ft's a_lot.of record and hie granted thes a loE of record, unanimously.
\
I,li llard Johnson:
variance being ig,
SEVER PE?ERSON, PRELIMINARY Pt..\T XTENSION.
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-HSZ DEVEIOPMEN", SOUTHWEST CORNER OE TII 7 AND IH 41:
fi iffi,tiffl+-i,Fttr[$ffifi,it*,*tt,T#*:,'I:--
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rutt*ru;i*,3g$:5*;r**"r*T,ti'HJt* ji*"*.
ne Eransportation alisnnenrc ana vario-r:I il#.i, *"
tt-_
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City Counci.l f€eting {1. gp rjI 25, 1988
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I :1!: pl:l: I.'d jusr briefly like ro review rhose and poinr our some addirionalrntormatron Ehat has been made avairable. As far as t[:e rezonirg action isconcerned from the office insEitutionar to the neighbortrood uusiies"
- ai=tri.t,the Planning conmission fert more "*ri.ti"ui" with this proposar because of thecreation of the BN disrrict in tir" n""- zoniot o.ain"n.".' 6, th"-;;igrrborrrooazonirg districr specificarrr cglt5gri n.igi.,I'to one story for the tlpes of usesthat are proposed - rt-arso eqtabri=h";-;'i; foot buirding and parking setback' frcn adj acent harres ard requires a strict Jiount of screening to be constructed. betqeen residentiar arrr corinerciat p-piti"". lurther, it provides for aspeci fic rist of neishborhood orienied';;;. - e.,otn". ii.- o;-thi;;roposarthaE seqns !o gain more acceptance t,.an previous proposars e.s the trafficseparation frqn tlre conmerciar aevetogneni to the- ad]acent n iqh;r;od.nasically $ttat tlrat entailed, at ttre 'ptanninc Cfimission was a discussion of-tho options. q)tion 1 being vacation ot ei;.iting er*r itieet-at-iIIiig*"nt-of 64th street further to ore south of ur-ii-"" that a furr intersection oculdbe created into the develolment on 11r 4r accorairg to r&rDot standards,approxirnatery 6gq f*L sou-th of rrr 7. rt,i"-opti"" p-p."J un-"fi"nlion ororiote rane dordn to it's exisrirs rermi;;;; "ira tn.i "i"t iaji""ni-iJ tn co,u.nard the Reed property. Another option tllat vas aiscussed "i- tir"
-eiunning
Ccnmission meeting, as labeled on ]rour pfans as Option 2 or staff has kird ofcalled it the z option, rculd cris3crosi tt io,rqn the Reed property. Again,'allowirg for the full intersection farthei io trre nortn. r Ehink it,s fair tosay Ehat the plannino Conmj.ssion e"ft Urat J reconnectj.on to TH 4I for 64thstreet was importantl They also ug.u.a *iti, the neighborhood cloments that: there should not be assessrnents created out of this ioaa constiuclion p.oi*tTd the cost, if one of these options or inoit,.. option to connect it to r, 4rshould be born by the deveroper. rt" cou..ii- does tnve tf,at option to requi re.that- since the planning conrnission meeti.ng-trrere have been tlo additionaralternati.ves suggested bi the devetop".. - iiui r.e,re ca[ing as option 3 is theconstruction of a cul-de-sac at the iouthwest corner of the cormercial site on64th, street. this option rourd not nake a connection back to m 41. Qtion 4r's the same princi.pre however it goes farther i.nto tn"-neJ;.&;i; and wourdProvide for future resubdivision or tne Reea property. rE know this is achange from the pranning conmission. Ho*u".', it is staff,s recomendationthat a reconnection of 6eth Str."t is very, very importani t"-tf,. '..iqhborhood
. in this area. As you can tell by this ovirhead, *r;_s ls fff Z on-tf,"-io.tn,Itl 41 over here, that this washti Bry Road/orchard tane neighborhooa has rrcaccess into and out of the area othei than 64th street ana itr z. -tt".e
:.s no' ability to cross or connect to Dartnouth Drive to the west because of ihe
5:hg area. crosing off 64th street eourd force arl of the residentiul t ip=onto TtI 7. Ttr 7 i.s a minor arteriar ard serves a different p".p"i". '-rt'"
Flrpose is to move traffic beEv€en two points at a fairly r.iia'=p".a
"na.' without a lot of i.nterruption. . Retaining the connection of 64th street h.uldalrow traffic coming out of this neighboihood to go south on TH 4r ina proviaes
1 .""9F rneans of ingress ard egress. Therefore, what staff i= .""orr."na ingCourci I to take direction on is erhether or not 64th Street should Greconnected Eo Tfl 41. rtrs our recormerdation that it shourd be. That ei.ther'Qti.on L, 2 or sorne other opEi.on can be evaluated i.n more a"i.ii -rt.n-tf," n*aProperty !"ouLd cffle in for platting. Cordj.tion of approval that $rasrec?rerded by the plannj.ng c.ornnisij.on q.s that that prat for the n*a prop".tytuould be approved by the Council before construction coufa occur on tLcqrmerciar property. As to the siEe pran issues, three i tsns t}lat r€,d like tofollow qr on. one, there lrErs concern about. Iarr3icapi,r, ;i;,r, tti -,*it..n
border of rhe site. that the landscapi n9 wourd exrlnd-t.-u,E tii-z--plo-p"r ay
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eity @unci I l4eeting -ar{i zs, rsaa
rine. Ttre apprj.cant has- arnenled his prans to add ten G foot evergreen trees toexterd the lardscapirg aLorg the Ziegier proEErty line ard aff t#-way up toT,7. Another @ncern was tle concei, rrom i;e !,Iatershed District about qraterquality on take Minnewashta- the. appricini has revised it,s pran -Jproviae
for an on-site storm qnter retention'. rr"-uplric.nt has also revised thelighting plan to take better advantage "r poi! standards ard so on ard tocreate -lighting structures that are &nstru"[ea in such a m.rnner L-piot.ctglare frcrn goirg onto adjacent prolErties. tn piun.i.,g-co*.i""ii 5.rl "t.rrreconnenlation rqnains the same frcrn the lrarch 16th o="iing. nor"ever, r€ rrDurdreconmerd tlat you r^DuLd adopt. tte. revised plans. ff you,6 fii", -f.il7 ero*,can address tr* on-site retenrion issue and the rightiig pru; i;;"",-it l.uwant to go into further detail on it.
Iarry Brown: As stated in ttre report, kind of at the 12th hour, concerns camet4r regarding the uater E:afity as this proposed storm seerer pi# ;;i;-discharge into the tterman Field park. - lloi trre park i.tserf u,ri trr" [tr"rn=dorm by Herman Field park. rn goirg back to the watershed District with theseconcerns, they revised their inj.tj.al recornnendation anr staied ti,"i ttey oant"aadditionar on-site pording.. rhe plan that you see before you tonight iddr."=""those- concerns by c.onstructing tr4. ponds. -one up here in -the nortfoast corrErard the one you donrt see, because itris is ttre oid t.un.p.r..,ry, - i"-tG "n.that on your pran shown in the southeast c.rner. rhese pords 3o provideadequate sedirnentation ard the l.Iatershed District has given their'verbilapprovar on these- As }rcu know, tl.ey wirr not give tr6i. ro.mar apeiovar rrrti:.the Council acrs on these. The orhei issue was rhe fightirg ;;;.6[-;i...since -the neighborhood had -brought ug 9uc!r a great concern arout tne it..e,they designed.out. or s;rced out speci.al rightirq fixtures simirar to lh" onesEnac you see ,n the city Harl lots ard kept the full heights at 2g feet suchthat the glare q.urd noi.be affecti.rg any- other adjacent 1ot or.,"i=. -ir,"y i,"rr.gone as far as taki.ng this to a lighting consultanl and lnd this pran anaryzed
!:_*!" s-ye. tFr rhe glare r,ould nor G affecting tne aajacenl-piop".tyowners. With that I'll leave it open to Council question;.
!4ayor Hamilton: What I'd like to do is have the develolEr, do you have aPresentaEion you'd like to rnake?
Roger Zahn: l,tv name is Roger Zahn. Itm president of HSZ Develotrment. Ildj::-1iF to give a tittle bit of backgroi:nd on o.r. upprou"h to a nunirer of rherssues that qE sa$, with respect !o this property as qre studied it anr 100kedinto i''hether or not qE shoui-d go forward- wilh ti,i" a"rui.g";.'-n",ing' .".athe Minutes of the oast Councii and plannj.ng Cormrsslon meetr.ngs anl tried Eotake into account tir" -n u.n. raised there ] .uny-or than regitimate ard tryingto solve those problsfis. rn our approach to the devero[ment, re have tried toa greaE extent to risten to the nei.ghbors and if they n.J-" -p."r.r.J
ipp.ou.nthat he.might take, he tried to tak6 that and work with thsn. That has causedus to kind of chanoe directi.ons a littre bit nrore often r tni.nr< trran starrt*ourd rike us Eo d5 anl perhaps ure'!ve caused u f"*
"on""ans on their part bydoing that but re have done ii in an effort to "ooperate with the neiqhbors.l): culje-:ac ideas rhar have been djscussed uJ il;;-L;;-t*.=tlliiil .. ,..srnce the plannino carmi ssi.on rneeting were basicarly tne neighbo.!-iEllr.n"".The Reeds ard tr* c-wens, in our discussion with thsn initialry they saw arittre bit more of the idea of moving . .oua uii the hay through onto T*r 4r arittle bit more favorabry ard r thini in ...ryri.g their own situations, theyhrculd prerer ro do iE ttris uay arxr thar's fir6-"iin-...- s"";-#;';;:rr.
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City Councj.I t4eeti ng {pri 1 25, 1988 '11
:9ncepi prans showing that and it's also fine with us to put the road through.rf qe had a preference r^,e would agree with the Reeds and iowens ard the othernei ghbors that thi.ng tiat uay, th;t the cul_de_sac approach rould probably bethe best ard it is our preferred alproach at this ri;;. At thi;-6;;t r thinkIrLI turn, so you can *l *,-y" gol scrne presentation boards and'r+e, ve got
i:h P.l frcro Dahlgren, shardrow a uban hlre to dj.scuss the prannirg issuesthat he has worked on ard ',e've got J.D. l,tacRae fron ueise, {an, m6na" anaAssociates to discuss the archit&turar concerns arrr arso Briin Lrson frcrrn- Barrientos ard Associates to ans!.rer questions that you *.y r,ur" i"gurJing .ny:lgil-:i1g. craig Johnson atso frqn- thar fitm resirdirg'Iarda.ati,:g: rthink IiII turn it over to John at this point.
John tjban: you're arr very farniriar wittr this. r will briefry show this to' ygu- rlo give you an idea of scrne of the things that rre looked and haa to aeat. ,iF ?= r.€ erere trying to- develop a good deveiognent scenario for this parce,.' Ttris is a 2a6 scaLe aerial photoqrapfi. rhe subject property is iigtrl-at ti,eintersection of TH 7 and TH 41. -this piece is isotaled- in i sense'frcrn theneighborhood in that it rearry doesnrt share access into the neignboitroodi!1e1f ard really is incunrered by the extrerne exposure to the high,ay sysEqnntrich actuarry makes it a good siie for doing sonettring Like neigfrboriloodcocmercial. That's the attack !,e took ard y6t at tte lame time,-arr theresidents in the pattern of deverolxnent r},ai has happened in the past, realrysPoke to try to separate the traffic systsns frcrn thlse t,rl, uses. so qE lookedu!..u T:tht' of doing that. I{e rrorked wj.th the neighbors to really corne outwith the best plan. Arso to the sbuth is a major iennepin county- park ard opensPace systsn. the actual property j.s dj.vided r4r into nnny single iamily plolsonto the west ard we have on ori.ore Drive the connection 6t sa[r, over to rtt 4rth: yay it exists today. That connects to rI{ z and roops back across into theneighborhood ard to the !',est - so '"e looked at the lard to the south owned bytwo individuals to see what kind of opLi.ons rne had. hb also looked at the area.circulation ard did str.dies arxl r.e looked at the basic vrater drainage systqn.Here r{e fourd that t}rere r."ere sone ponds put in place by the Hi.ghvra} o"pu.t n"ntEhat were dtaj.ning the norther portions of the site but pri.mariiy mist of itcarne through a very informar fashion ard fourd their ray i.nto a irarshland justbefore it entered the lake which i.s a good natural systLm to take care of theliater. So now r,,e've only tried Lo aug'nent that to rneet the criteria of Ehe
- Watershed District ard the City so this water is now handled the best way.'possibre- ilEtve studied trris ina solved sorne probterns. rbere,s r€ter that
bornes across the road. I^ie've Looked at all of those devero[ments. rn ourdiscussions, staff has already reviewed the opti.ons that r,ei ve looked at but r€did several things. w: met \ri th lrnEbt. VE tried to work out probl,sns thatthey had- rrogosj.ng to add a lane, a by-pass lane and then a deaccerleration
. ard accereration rane for the entrances. vlhat l*e'ive deveroped then is a pi.eceof land with j.trs own full access which separates it compleiely from the
neighborhood aftl thjs went a long lday to really gei the Lse iniegrated with
much better archi tecture, 1or^rer bui.ldings, good landscapi.ng, good setbacks, Iowglare lighting, all these features Eo really make jt vork. l.ls also workedwith l,hDot to try and develop a soLutj.on to a very dangerous situatjon. It j.s
very difficult for wesEbound traffic Eo make a left. turn onto Oriole tarE so 1"8qbrked with thern and they will now, this surmer, be restripi.ng tlEt section ofthe road for a dedj cated left turn lane because in Ehe past people have beensitting in there, high speed traffic crming up behind them and they're sj.ttjngthere !'raitirg to make this seerningly j.nnocuous left turn and it's very
dangerous. People have aknost gotten hurt so r^e t ve rorked Eo try and solve
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Jt1* -r*,t lleerins - oo(, ,r,
that problslt arrJ r"e thing -r"e have worked that out now eri th [4nDot. thisdevelotrment rooked at diiferent *v" oi-p,rii;-nq access into the rand to thesouth to give than future develocr,lnt pe["li-i;a. Really r.rhat hre,ve done isopened up the realm of possibilities a wL-e-coufa happen, there are severaldifferent solutions. This one l*p"a ln.ousi ard followed the existingright-of-rrr;ay here bur y" gf tr,. Ligi'ioi"'Jian't r.nr thi.s road. Didn,t Hantto finish out some of the platted .ou6" it "tLre in the area. so we rooked atanother qlsten in wtrich G4th vras kept i" li*" that then nopg.a J.*n-to u,"Reed property, for lor*ed the. property rine'out-trren to m atl'-tni='trr.aexcept malbe the timing-isn't qr:i!e- right for both parties at the same time andthen o'e v,ourd not exterri Eorest avenue-eiEher. ?he neighborhood did not wantthat to happen. so that I s i.,hat led * io -ti," - ein.r *i,1ii.". - rtra-ils'rnayte rptthe best nare for it but hotEfully itrs or. ttut wiff r,rcik
"".V
-[if l m=cul-de-sac idea really is gnrv trn" ri."t-pt"se- or trre previous kinds ofsolutions that r're rooked at. one in rrt i.f, ua. Reed can develop a fes, rots,culminate 64th street into a safe cur<e-sac ana then it offers the plattingard the continuation of the street ttat "ouia open up the rest of the ranl inr'rr - Go$,en ard r'rr - Reed on out to IH 41 so it does resolve that deadend issue inthat it can be ccmplered. It does not use ottrer exisring .ight;i;y. Itd@snrt have to although q. gity certainly t"" ti," choice of cornpleting theroad systsn that existi and eriminatirs thl other cur-de-sac. Ttris arso hasthe potential, and is requested by the-city for safety purposes as an interi.msolution to this cur-de-slc is to-provide &*ig"n"v access right up into thesite irserf wrrich qe can do_if it.i .."iiy-..iiir* so urr oi'Gis-i!"rearrydesigned as a first step. These t$D fanao"ner! -are not developers really.They're peopre wtro o* -th" land, have o*J-'it- ro, u ro.[ - ii*"'"na uil'no.:T:"=uli1y.il a sood posirion Eoday to rearly junp in "fo ;k";; Ji.r.,.responsi biJ.ities of deverognent. but this i.s a'soruiion that ti,ey-.ui-iive wittrand it gets thsn inro r"rorking with their i;; ;" a slower pace. te think thisworks very r'terl and will sor,]e arl tie p.;,i;; with circuraEion for the siteitself' rt tuorks with the standards of-ymooi. rt helps revive a sorution thatshould have been rooked at a rong time ago 'riin tr," reft turn rane into orioleId it leiJty sEarrs rhe. develogienr putiu.n i'-*,inr ,oir.ing'o,;I'J.i-'successfully. Inla've r."orked hard. I€i ve met ,ith
".ra.yo.ra ard te think IAe tEvebefore you Eoniqht rhe bes.. solution ,.=
"ur,
-pioau"e
and I think you,ll see,r.,ten you see ttre Droduct, the site design, ili ,: really is going to be a verygood deverornenE ior vou. rrrl turn it-over now co .r.o. to go through thatdeveloSment unless yoi have any questj.ons of me.
Counci lman Boyt: How }ong is your cul_de_sac?
John uban: This snarl one, r'rr measure it exactry. A rittre over 500 feet.
C.ounci lman Johnson: AII the !,ray.
Courcj lran Boyt: There,s a second entrance there Jay on the boEtom.
John Uban: I'm measuring from thi.s to this.
Courri lman Johnson: AII the r€y up. ,IhaE,s )rour one anC only entraoce.
C.ouncilnan Boyt: !lc. It comes out another part of TtI 7.
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City Counc j.1 lleeting {Aprj 1 25, 1988
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John Uban: There are. different. qa)rs of looking at j.E. .If you r€nt to measureit frqn TH 7, obviousry
'"e have #;.;i iili."a more fee. there bu. there,s apratted road rhrouoh, rere that -ror*I-;t#;: phys'calry it is nor in pracebur iE's prarted righr_of_;;. -v'(E q r.,cru'
counci lman Boyt: that other one is anothe r 606 0r 7oo feeE up to T'7? rhatextension? , . --':;"--.
_ Courcilman Johnson : Iihere Orchard inter-sects. . .
Councilfian Bolt: I think Irve got the idea.
John Uban: If you're measuring f.g* ry Zr. this is over 500 feet. . _ ..
. Councilman Boyt.: Like about I,006.
John uban: rhat's tdhy-lre're providing the option of doing this. The randownerthen can pursue the aeaication ir,i"rqi u"'iJlna" arrl dedi.cation right-of-r^rayfor the c.ompletion of ttre roaarlay:--" *--'-
J.D. l,tacRae: lIy name is J.D. IhcRae. Irm with Heise, ryan, IrlacRae ard' Associates' htre're the architects on tt. p.oi""t- To go quickly through thesite issues firsr of arr. eg"i", itii.nIilinq, r,7, T,41, furl accessonEo r,4I ard a rioht- turn lane'only off oi ru Z. I€ chose-to U,riiJ ,rp on tH7 tr"o ourrots that iourd be sord ori' roi-#""rciar uses. rhen Erlled our siEe" back away frcrn fir 7 feel ing that the ti9t".t'"i"iuirity is $r 7. The bestuseage for those 10ts then; for Etrat iniense tyIE use on that outrot rrourd be--up on Trr 7. 'rE then orientated the. buirdirq- ai-ong the i"utt piodliv ri...'Eollowing the properEy rine. .98 ori"nuiJ'it trqt u.y to. til-i"u.ln". .nr€,the intersecrion wirh rhe.srop lisht. zuii ,i.*iiilv'.i-ir," i..:rll rhemost sighted for the retaileri- seconarv, tiyrng to reduce the imlEct of ouri:llliry on. the neighborhood to the wesr'wtrich was of grear concern. The
'mpact Eo the south obviousry, re tnve a lot of hiraiit-aiong il".i uut ou" tothe height difference betwee;'this. p;."" "i-pi"p"rty ard the properry to the- south, lhev're rearrv rooking up- thiough a blrrr and- seeing ,.iy-iiiiie or the- buildi.ng fron this tr6rgnt. te inen haie an u""""=o.y building which is on the*51.f_i]d!:_ Again, trying ro minimize the amount of Luilding ir.,"i"-,riin.- m'lx r mun amounE of souare footage that you can put on this site. --I^b-'lhen
have' Ehe. parking out in front with fome ariie-"p-parring arong the c€nrer. The
. parking meets all Ehe requissnsnts of the LiLy. rhc setbacks to'lfre'm.ri6g areactually about 59 feet r berieve re have here- rathei th";-il ii iolar*.ou"r.Most of thar is due to rhe grade difference frcrn about rhi.s foiit-iJ-u.,i" pointtry. F" needing for ttre srole aod Ehe berm up on top to the iandscaping r.rhich.ke'll get to in a mqnent. Well, we can get io lt right;;;.--il;;;""landscape plan here wtrich has been anend6d, i.s not.-amended on here, continuing
3f:::gi,rr -.p. to TH 7 as Barb had discussed. !€ have fir trees air-irorq .nePerheter of the property intermixing other t)4)es or vegetation anJ-uirnging rnscotch Pine. Then down below it ,ne 6ave =unai-
Craig Johnson: hre have deciduous shrubs.
J-D. I{acRae: Arong this portion oE the berm. I,ge then have deciduous trees outrn fronE thaE are thi.n, Iight Erees so again the visiuifity i;-;;;;-;. *"through. I€ have an arcade of trees on eactr side of tn" eitrince-iar.ing
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City Councit r'ieeujng - *(, ,u,
_s-?rnevrhat of a parkway entrance off of 1Tl 7.. Theo landscapiirg out j.n. here.Il*_!p: tandscapins,.this atr mee* aown-rreie. il;-i;H;:p;il ;i".q .n"per'lmeter, vrerve also incorporated berminq arong the top of. this hirrside hereto herp screen the residentiar. r,e i,"v" Siqrrl section A, B, c ard D which arerefrected here showing_a Eypicar tt* ico.y-iorse and itrs proper elevation ardthe retationship of distanl! ard rreighi i; ;;; Frol_eci. ri,i"igh lii"".."u".o.y..buirding we ri,ourd actuarly berm up onto ti,"-G.r. -of. t! building ani carry theberm up scrnewhat hiqher ard then icotch pin"= ..*: the deciduoug trees.. The ., ;. ...sight Iine actuatly from e]re level on tll secona f&"f "riti.J"";;:: Ibelieve lre see abour a foot of tir" "...="oiv-ilr;;;. ;;:#.1;;;"i* =r.r.,side of the rerail center itself, d;i;-;;;: lrttinq.ttrougil-V"r"=L.ruour rhesare anount of building.. llo! ta\ing into consider.lion ti,it.G L""lardscaping
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on top of Lnat tirat is. [neie-y"u.-.orna. on the back side, sectionc and D, r'Je r re just showi ng there is ouviiusiy no deverotrment dor.d! there.These are the existinq. conrours ccrning r:p rh;'hilr #-6;;;-;;;";'.L"minimar emount of rhe building witir tie Lnn irserf ano ihen the rafoJcaping upon top of the berm - rhe biggest concern * t ". wi th the G*l-nq-;;!-to r,io"the cars arrl hide rhe parkin! fot so weire nol rooxinq at a parking lot.tooking at a minimar inount. or building. -M-r.inq the snallesi amount of irpact.Getting to the actuar buirging itself,-a10r[ -lh"
front side, the street side,vre have windows, futl height irom the side#rx s reet high. we i,""" "i"r"Erthat carries across the fice of the buiil;;; ihut "ti"k= over the sidewark soyou can rr;alk urderneath the canopy. Itren ri anchor at each ena of tne'buirdi.ng, this is sort of a shori6n "r"u.tionl'this is the actuar elevation tomake sense of how lono it rea]Iy is. f.l" n ue'.n"f,ored each side of thet'iigirs wirh an archirecrurar l*".. *r"r']tict = up above Ehe top of. rhebuilding'_ arri using brick arrl rrck i; ;;;;r;;; block, rae rried. ro make a realpretty erevation here and here. Again, wi th the glass a.d corrcrete,';;i;;*'going across here, the signage "iri u"'in"oipo.ua"a into tie canopy. t;e thenntap arourd the corner here carrying tne nrick back to .u"ut "-l"iliniros pointard then it's a rock faced'brock muir tr',ai-"ticks 2'g, t*." .na -tr,"rl"ilup"
_arourd the back side of-the building- we,ve ciaa trre rooi -oi 'tn" '"u."pv
"nothe roof of these tr{D erq:nents in a-red "t"naiig seam roofing.. thi.s black massyou see back behirxr is anorher meEar roofing uic i" ueing uled ,='J Lr..ningelernent for the rooftop uni.s. It runs trr.'"o-n tr nuous rength of.the building.Agai'n, it has the two-thirds poi.t r""r., i.iii.n arourd this concrete mass anithen ccrning alound the back o'f *," u"ir,i i.g-:'!rrort aistance-.J"ililinuting.He chose Eo do that for trncr reasons. Oner-the :.ntersecEion -of
T,I.l 7 ard TII 4Iis slightty higher than the froor. heigr,f -r.,.i"-ut
i "r, means sonebody sitti.,g inEheir car rcu1d have the opportunity [o look up onto the roof ard see not theroof but vrould see ttre rooiiop ";ial.
--hr"l;i.i[ tn.t," very disrractins arr] notgood looking. r\D, as we drive uionj tr.,i.-=ii" o., ,n qr,-in-ii-i"-J".,i;9i, ".our buildinq is and vou actually frave tne oppoituni. ty to Iook down upon thebui.Idi.ng. aqain, triing to-Ies;en tne impaci'of the rooftop unit. i,Ir I".u"you with, and r^e have a rendering to give't;; lora ot.:n image idea of whatkird of a center qle're talkjng about-' e "liy [ign quaijty, nic€ materj3ls.Asajn, the sjsn band ," i; trr; ;;;;. -d;':;;o,
soine back. Lany peoprewalking alonq the sjdewalk. Onty tr.o ".i=, i-Jon,t know how they _got there.Then our ..lr elernent ,o.here- eq.i", - th" ' tuti'oeci.dious trees out in theParkjrg lot for minimun impact.
lrayor Hamilton: Anvbo.v from the neighborhood like to make cqrments? - If lrourdrike to' now is voui "hlnce. preferably if there is scnebody representirg the .hhole group
'd appreci.at. n"..i.i-it"*'tr,"rn-..'in.. than each individuar.
1988
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CCj Ey Counci I l,reet j ng - Apr iI 25, 1988
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Gene Conner: r'm the next door neighbor to Bob glagner on orchard r-ane. BobPo.k$ me -ana said okay, it,s your tirn. r feel life f ,r. Xi.n'-oi dnsubjected over the lEars to the Grj nese rrEter torEure with thj.s p..i*a. Imust a&nist that r do
'r,ave
to congraturate the deveroper" r"i iil.iiv coming upurith something rhar at reast seem6 r i*.-.-..u"onaory interiig.nt' .J!i.ou"r, tothe project. r real1y can't-say that foi lr."ro* approaches. r stirr havereservations. rt'!s been said over and ovei and over- igain that ttrai area isnot suitable for residentiar. r rearry don't ber ieve It. sin"" tLi." n ".said so many times itrs almost Uecome i thj.nq with me. f a.iu.-u.orJ _ar look at resi-dentiar devero;xnenE areas that'are cr.ose to nigr,,*y"-.r.i, busier,much bigger than that one and see reaDy oice praces uerng uii it'cro"J aointersections. F?t property arso has inough contour in it so that residencescould have been built in_ off 6.4th- street wiih, r think .ti," -r,igt *y. ilura nothave bothered thqn at a1r. r buirt racing rr'z arrr r don;t #".-]-piouro,r.ri th I1I 7 and I think there i: =9*" p.op"ity ir,.tn"re, mosE of the properEy inthere cluld have been utirized witrr more scieening towara ine-ni9ir5i-tn.n rhad - B-lt the courci t in a1r their wisdcm has aeciaeo that that,i noi going to- be resi.dential. r stirr think itrs suitabre for the or that itrs presently' desi'gnated- r guess r'!m not sold on a conmerciar trp. a"u"iogr,."t'ii*tn"." y.tarthough this is far better than what rrr:rve had in i-ne past. 'r-Jo r,..r" t*areas of concern with this horaEver and that is the *o iieces of u;everopea" property in front of it- r mean as sure as God made riiti" q.."n-"pJi.., tn"next- approach is.going to be for a full brown conrnerci.al on those lots becauselhey'Ie facing right out on the highway. It,s creepirq co,*"."i"firo. r ju.tknow in.my own heart rl,ur if this !oes'in, rhat is loing to ;"-i;ii;i.*,cc'nmerciat out there- Maybe nor with tnis councir. rr;= ."iy i;;-di; counci.lto say it won't happen but down the road you people rcn,r always L a;;... Again, my congratulati.ons honever to the ievel-opers, a very fioe gresenEation.
Ben Go!';En: rrm the adjacenE property Eo the south of Reeds. under rhe ratestproposal of the culde-sac, r see where r'm not involved one iota now or i.n the- future. If I've got that wrong, please correct me. Another thi.ng, it was' mentioned by Barb earr-ier that-duiing the planning meeting it was'st.tea oy rrer' that Reedrs protting was a part of the di.scussion. r donit think that was a. Lagt. in. the plannj.ng meetin!. otherwise, I,m for the ccfimreciat .o.n... rthink therers onLy one way to do it ard that,s conmercial.
Bob Wagner, 251r orchard tane: of c,ourse r courdn,t. pass up the opportunity toGc[r'e up here ard talk to you guys again- I,d like to Eake you U"ci- to your'August 3rd cornnission meeti.ng jn vltricn you met without trr" iu*uiy-ot-r=, an"honeowners, and r4ayor Hamilton talked to counci lman Johnson uJ i.,"
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''ngress and egress on that protErty courd be resorved to counci lman Johnson,ssatisfaction, r.'ould he be in favor of conmercial ard he said yes. r trrintthatrs still a major issue from what I,ve heard toni.ght. I,m not =u." f ,rr"
heard the proper sorution. we've talkd about t!,D options, tr,.Jo of which werediscussed at the planni.ng c-i*rmi ssi.on rneeti.ng. 'I\ro oi r.rhich $Ere discussed forthe first Eime Eonight, at reast arnongst us horneowners that are here. one ofthose I have heard is very disturbing to me and thaE,s wtrere fre tark about anernergency route, if you wiII, back up j.nto the shopping center whjch to me'flpans qe,re distroying t}le privacy, rnre're tearing down berming, t.,Erre notproEectirg the res'denciar any Longer. of course I understard where that'scoming from. !.tre have L,o66 fooL or longer cur-de-sac r*ri ch is against the codeI beLieve. r'm more oFposed Eo the entrance back into the stropiirq center tnananythi.ng and r think that. deserves a 1or of discussion. I thi;i ii desrroys
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City Councj.l lleetj.ng - onfr, ,r,1988
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the concept that qE ttere trying to sel I in the @inn j ng which is keep itselErate. Counci Lman Boyt made a statqnent on august 3rd, te said to vote onthat re,ve gor Eo be abte t9 "ho" th;a-th;;e;s a signi.ricanr portion of rheneighborhood Ehat supporrs it. r,u" i,.J.I-i"n g"a up ard say he sutrports it.r tEve rer to hear anvbody else. in trr" -".igfu.rrrg
ge! w and say Lney supporrit. r don'|t know whai you consider =ig.iii.Iit but r don,t consider one or tr4roneighbors significant. r think r'". rrJuii-l-io. n,o." neighbors opposed thatfor' councilman Gevirg said sor-rgthir' -;-ii ltie uit better quarity, urirg thatback or sanerhins a*._:?yld s"rf tn"'eraiii|-ungr.. reepi ng it setrErare fromthe hqneowners. tow density. ering us back'scmething that,s good quality, lo$,dgnsityr good separati ol f.q existing n*,"".- r think the one point in tlatthat shourd be di scussed is intensityi r ti,inx if you rook at the records ardif you 100k at previous proposars, this may be less intense by 1,000 squarefeet but ]rou,re not ".Tig"iiry, tn otr,.-iJ.oLrty up front yet i.o-le-aevefopeaard r vrourd chal.renge that to [i," q,r."tion' or'intiniity. -- *ili ,".iiaon made accnment in that meeting. about, f ,lf qr:ote, i can,t for the f if. o?'il-figrr.ouE how thev can clrnDr?in, abou.t noise, taixinf *out tt" n"ifnro.., Ir wnareveri,t gs ttreV urere conplainirg abouE that far afoy frcn the road. I thinkthey're complaininq about sornething oat-iin;t a probrqn ana r *rinr<- i;m ueingrealisgig arxl rhey,re not. r thini if that is true !r. !.rayor, then residenrialrould fit there. If noise isn,t an is=ue. - ting U"cf t", tf," pf"."i.gCcnmission reetinq, the Last meeting ,^= lit"na.O, it was stated by Barb Dacythat as Eo rhis appricarion,_$,har #,r";ti;;'is they "un;i-"t.ii ifiiainghere until the Citv has resolution on the it.5.t .onn."tion issue. Frqn thesEaff standpoint, ila s the major i;J;-;;-Aur is ro ser the rrafficconnection back ro rlr 41.. Tharis on p"g" ii, uuout tr," iliJ-;;;;.il.r stirl think that's the issue tonrgiri.'- r-ilul u *n=" in change in directi.on.I guess Irm jusE concerned that it,i uA.qu.t.iy dj.scussed. There js apresentation on this board that shows t,"ro' uuii6rng". o," i"-tn-.-zoloi,
"quu."foot building bur therers anorher l"irJi.gJi""ed off to rhe side in rhepresentation that j.s not IErt of what *,.V,i"-pf unni.ng on aerrefopins. ''
Ihuaparticular building sits iigrrt n"r,:..i ii.6r.i,I t or. ard that r"rourd in facrcleate a privacy issue with thern in that ii ,-ufa protecE cn* fi*, tii"shopPing center. I iust want Eo poinE out to you that.,s really not in thisprase of devero*r,enr unr.ii tr.,"y;;il;;;: iluirder u.rt r tr.,inii-ti,."*y!l:I't" presenring iE, ir's not'in trrere-.iti,olgn itrs in the picrure. ?hestatement was made abo't the berm and ur"-ii"t.n.nt was made that it's somewhathigher than the parki no lot. Having lived-it.orgn this in front of my housewi th wt,.t 'es ure B.rti. p.op".ty,, sonewr,. E highr.rer is a very disturbing termto rne ' r'm stirl rooking-foi-tn r"no=.upir,g -lna u. evergreen trees that wasreserved wj.th a letrer oi credit .t tnut-[i*E. 'It.s still-not tf,-."-t&"y.Thatrs back in 1979 so r think.. scrnewna, ii;;; is a rather elusive term arxl rthink you need to do a [sggga job of fi.nalizi.ng whaE that is. !,]e talked aboutthe vi'ew from 1+r ar u. t^e
-ii"t;I}";.';ffi" ^"'na'rn" facr thrt somebody courd siE
Ift fi l:d;,'!li1-T3'iiii$I;,::.-*H:'l j*Iliil'ilil:H${;$j'f"
FC, iti =li;
:,*.sff ir:;,:i,,.,i6 il#;i:":t. r=ift ff "H['fr ,i::.="LT:ld like. to see scrnethirg arreclJ ii-ti.ri*I."". re talked abour rhepreasrng took. r catl it th6 e:nterburt "a;i"; roor u*r trre-.ii-IJnJ" on.opof the roof' r q.ur.d ask you t" ""ii iv' tr,ua-ai].,= w'rhin the heiqhr ri.mit ofEhe Building Code for BN. -.I think it iiqiit-t -outs of that area that,sapproved. I think that,s the n i". i"="i". -- -
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rCj.ty Counci I treeti n9 - April 25, l98B
Councilman Geving: That.s r.rhat Iim really talking about.
ciary Reed: r thi.nk if that's hardled properly, there shouldnrE be any trafficback through. l,ty wi fe ard I r.vEre concerned aLut the p€ople that ,r.ii up tothe school, lte suggested to. Roger and he agreed tfrat putting u Uif..-p"tt "pthrough ard alorg the shoppirry center ard Lhen that would d5uble ," ih;''energenry entrance inEo ttte cul-de-sac area if an'snergency vehi,cle needed togo.in there.. -Ebssibly leave a notch in the berming. et uirat point, i-aon,tEnrnk r.E r.burd bother anybody. r guess r hoped a Little bit aLout protectingthe roofEop units on the fro;t of ine uui.rding but r r^Durd certainry rike tosee thern protectd on tie back si.de too. t wouldn,t rike to look ai -thqn.
pur-rci frnan @ving: So you're in favor of the project as iE's being proposedtonighE?
C,ary Reed: l{ell , as the anerdmenEs go on , as Iong as qle !"ork things out .
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Gary Reed: l4y brother and r oh,n the property thatrs adjacent to the shoppj.ngcenter on tlre south. .l::?.,.=-ah. ladp;nq cenrer going in, ir jusr deperdson wha! |,1r.- Zahn is going to do for *. 'ie fo ,r.".t. the street, we haveapproximately f ive sewer ard water sysian
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, ." not cnrrently paying foraronq the street so that. is tt. ."."in -Fo. trJ ."t.n"ion of the cur-de-sac intothe property. lr. felr that tha. JiJ ;-r;;od cqnprqnise to vacare rhestreet' that r€ rrnuld then be abre .o i"".rJ" arourd the curde-sac area which- vould give us a lirtle *::" g:pth lnto tt" pi5p".tY. Ihen rhe drainasesiruation rtrar is currentrv trr"r", u,i,ere--ir'""I" - tti",rgii]".'.;Ji'.i"1 *rrahave to be dealt with if t[,i= .on""pt-"r.-rcL accepted. I€ have a roE ofdrainage that ccrnes off of tle ve=t'.1.. -High or $,hatever it is no$r, the Middreschool, that ccmes off of their parfing i;i-; clr" through our property ardit can be a Eorrenr at times "o i thi;i ilirI' r*r.ins for the dev-Ioper to rookat that siruarion too because it would...tiiniy *-! plit;-i il;;;fr;n"problern and we arl met at one spot tlrere. le *ouia hope to .r"o-1"-"ipryin9for a-BN. t]4E zonins on probabt|-tn" ir"nt !'-rZi-""."=".j-.I=ii"ili]i .n"narourd the cur-de-sac area. I^te feer t'at beinq back up to the ah;ppi;g cenrer,Ben cowen has corrri rionar use running on ttre .ir,".-=iJ! ; ;-",rcTil;t .o an"south is the park arrl schoor arri so 6n, that re r.rour.d arso appry in the futurefor a BN for the front-age 3fgne tfe i,iiir,*V. lte asXea Roger for a pernanent
".?".o:nl. into his parking lot ;o that r,,e wlufa then have tlro exits. One on .nr41 and. then. into his partiing rot for trrat riontage. Then deverop the back rotsas residential at sone future plat that trcu qputa i,ave that comes u"ioi= yor.These _are just scrne of my thouihts on itl te-r.routd be in favor of the cul-de_sac idea tlat's being proposed as !"e could work it out ,itn-nog.i. -"-
counci.lman Geving: Are you in favor then of that secord access into th:f3ruip cen ter from your property to the north? you,re the one that .,torkedout ard negotj.ated with the developerZ
Gary Reed: In the front trErt of his p:rking tot ,,^€ rnould ask for an easementover his parking lot so tha! if .r,e dia deveiop it, ue courJ tr,."-u" -pult
or r.n"' entrarce and exit - we cour.d exit out our" uni then he ,,oura rnv.-no'lripu.a onthe neighborhood as far as traffic frow is concerned. Now if you,re tarking'about the snergency access to the back.
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City Council l,teeti ng _ ap rL\.25, 1988 I
[€rry Brown: Point of c].arificaEion. I think Barb had zut up on the overheadthere, ard correct me if -r'm ,rong |,i.. n i'-tit r believe that. was the entrancethat you uere in favor of. rt" o,i" J""i"i II"*. righr hand side. r,rotconfused wittr tlre one rhar *e appf icinl -i,ia-"iro*r.
Gary Reed: rtrat l,as the easement r had discussed i,rit].r_ Roger and this cucept,this isnit exactly laid out. tF *y it *rrJE probibry- rte cucept is thesame bur r r'burd prefer it rei ng r6rr,,arJ-t!i.?, this isn't realry io scare. rhave lss'feet in here. !V- !gu:" "rf ",V-"o""-torse rrould be built on that arrl;f:.I.*'u rike another r6a reet.-iso-ili"in trr. iot"-r=i.-ii"-lth., ros
Courcilman Boyt: fb$, nEny rcres do pu have?
Gary Reed: Therers aproximately fron, Jrm severirg this off so the rest trculdbe probably 7-7 V2 acres or so.
councirman Bo!t: so you're 100king at about harf of that BN?
Cnry Reed: yes, just enough to Ftt one business on the property. litsrve hadthe drive-in up Ehere fo5 ye*s you knon ard I,ve been talking to sc(I|e peoplethat r'rourd reclnstruct tr,i ia".'.rn:' nJr"-"-.!=i.r...,t. put an extension onthe Reed's Drive-in thqne. @rated ro. y.uis-Jno it rr,as an asset to thecqrmunity.
PauL Kerner ' 635r Minnewashta I'tcods Drive: r'm just here on behalf, rrre wanE Eo
ffir:.T conmercial deveroFnent at that ro".tion. r just wanred io'"to, *y
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Mayor Hamirton: i{e shourd take them one at a time and 100k at the rezoningfrom oI Eo BN firsr of a1l. attei *.,.t--uiiri ioox ar rhe preliminary prar andsee if r"e can'r harmer our some.hins tr,.i;.-LixJr.-triiili'=.riv,'Ei'yl, *'.to start? Do you have any coirnents on the rezonJ.ng J.ssue?
councilnan Johnson: since this is the first reading of rezoning and the changeto our ord inance on the_cause for-rezoni.;;;; we,re putting cordi Eions in theplat and site plan review and stuff, r.E p;;r;;; a second reading unril we,veff:t:j:ffr::.#*:^.?ft.ions, r a"";t fi.,"""'ror of probrem rishr now wiuh
i:-5._.:i ;tmiT:.,:;:_::,.,;o:::,i..:;::';fl.":,T:..i:s:".j.ri:;#,$:J *
maxrmun aE this time and.posliury in th"- frd; witr even L-.uii". uiiroing"rn the future so theoretiiarry iiri- y".i" ioil=ar,. road, !.re could see a sixstorv orfice buird:rno in trris'aiea ii-;;; ;"1;" prernise thaE re have, rhethree sEory restriction on is because, aia ar
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reasons is because the fire::fff ;::.: f:*..:_:,,." aE rhjs ti'n".-"n,J^nJ, prarrorm t,.,"x-,,.iir L.," uy:! "l _r;- *;;:.:::',,f":il. :T:ii"f ix.ii,:_::::l;::";."jj.i m*SAi::
fiii.
'{i$
**:ir"etffff
,1 fi*.*aFtr.l';ir::i:r:sl'r.H.#:.,*"bui'Idirgs in here which couid be " "on.ia..Ji]'u ount of square footase of
ii!:.:r!):: tt.r"tirE";",i. iff ::l;;gi{l i:i ;:,ri{iti:x#r;,." .one story buirding. ci ven ttris is the firsr i.iaing and it,s not final until E
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aCj ty Council I'Eet j.ng j April 25, Iggg
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t--the secord reading, *,I:_lot actually. rezoning it tonight, untj.l lue get thesingle issue here is access. and rrm giri.g-io-tir more about access ard r think
Svgrybody else is going to talk more abort u".."" on the next phases of thi.sbut to me, this section should eirher t" i.=iJ"ntiur o. b;;i;J;-nligiio.tood.Right now rr'e don't have anything uetore us-saving go residential. Busi.nessneighborhood to nre nould re l"ti"r ttu" oi ioi-ln residents in theneighborhood.
P::ti,h:: H_orn: . r,11 just repeat q,hat Jay said- I think the BN makes sense.I thj.nk the BN rnakes a good trinsit:.oo foi- tfris-..ea.
Courci lman_ Ceving: Bill, do you havg alry comrents on just the first issueplease.. The rezonirg issue- Just rfunit it to that at this time.
Counci lman Boyt: I h3ye a tErd tine separate this out into four issues. I,lImake an atternpt. r think that the strofoest tool that rre have here is therequest -for rezoning and that tlkes a foir-fifths ""t".
-r,"r" ilpiv a. r"rerninded of what r had said earrier by l4r. wagner - rt,s always nice to beByl!"d by one , s quotes Mr. wagner. i v,ould - suggu.i *r.t-iti " "ilIo,n"tdifficult for me to know, r know this issue is piouuurv -u"ut"" aJ#1 rot orthe neighbors and it must be hard to get ul and- rally in"-ti*p"-"re more time.r have heard that there is sorne sense-that' this i.s Gtt".. --vfl.,!u.,Jr-it,
" goodenough or not r think is sornethi.ng we have to hamer out between now a,*i whenit's finally improved. l,ty guess r.roura ue-ttrat this developer is deterrnined tomeet all reasonabre interesis of the neighborhood and r ,o,rta u.,ti"i*""eventual approvernenr. - you- show me thar i signiti"ant ;.;r-;; iii.^i.ignoo.t,ooal: i,, fact opposed ard llr rrot. uq.in=t-it.- ey significant r mean you show methat., for my vote, that scrnewhere in the nej.ghborho6d of ogz to zga 6r eneneighborhood is oooosed to this kird of deveio5ment. r,d vote agai.nst it. rthink jE's incumOent upon the developer to meet the concerns of theneighborhood. I think the neighborhooa nas iaia that yes, the developer ismovi rg in thet direction. w" 6uu" tnis zonJ, it,s kind of an unfortunaEezoning- r think.Jay has rnenEioned one reason it's unfortunate- r thinkanother one is, it's taking a valuable piece of property out ot .i."rration inthe cormunity. I think. ttre tfri.ng tf,t,iff keep thi.s piece of piop.ity tro*developing resj-dentiar. is it's c5nmercial varue. Eventually someone, they- can.r E afford to put a house there because the rand is pot"ni;.riy-*ith ci,.t_ TY:!. I thj.nk you've seen that over the years. yourve seen it with four
:l=:::".-":::,oPr:. Eo devetop ir conrnerciatry. As far as rhe preliminaryreadlng, I Ehink that it's very jmportant for the developer to show asigni ficant
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support of the nei;hbo;hood - r don'|t see a signj.fi""na p..a oE th"
::]sl.lPo..hoq sayi rlg rhrt Ehey oppose ir so r Ehink i s incumbent upon the. nelgnborhood to do tha!. rtris is pouring gasorine on the fire but -I happen toagree with you that since a conditiona] use for a BN is a convenience store, l^'ith gas pumps or an automotive service statjon, I wourd be incrinal to thinkthat what r^e're really looking at here is a very good screening systsn. I
!!r:.k. j.trs a_fairly giod screening from riar bur I would anricjpate thar rheuse.right off of TH 7 r.\Duld be moie intense rhan the shoppi.ng ";;a;. i It,s allprojections so how do r know? pur sj.mpry, r like what i-;;;: -i"iliix tr,utthere has been a good bit of adjustrnent to the concerns of the neighborhood. rdonrt see a signi.ficant portion of the neighborhood speakinj uguin3l-it and yetI wanE you to know that I witl stard by my earlier quote-
Councj lman Geving: I thj.nk that qe have c.ome a long way in thj.s develognent
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Cjrty Councit lrbeEing - epi.^ r ZS,
from where it r'ns just severar -years ago- r think.Ehat the deveropers havegone back to the homeo$,ners and made a-reariy srgnrtrcant attempt to work wi.ththe hgmeoyrnels. r got thi.s impression *a -tiul ,ras the rnarching order that hegave to the developers.. Tb meet with the homeowners. Work out the problers.l*y Eo keep the separatJ'.on as vras rnentioned .urt;..-iro*-arr.-i*".ir5.!
"*don't irnpacr rhsn in rerms of u"""=n".,r=.--rni= r= yoy, p;;j;r'lii"iii=.r"rvimportant that it ranain your project. rf there are improvenents to be made inyour area, they shourd not impact upon the honeowners ii terms oi "I"II*"na=for roads and whatever is.going t, L *n"ti*La n"r". I think rrerve ccrne along vays in terms of trying to f oot .t tf,"t IJ.n".. Nor^r tr.io years ago, rtemade an atternpt to look at t,.is as an off'ce inst: tutionar -ur"r--i""Ii*gnt
offices miqhr be Ehe way r9_go: rt jusr aiJn;t r,.pp"., il i-il;""";#.marretresearch and the studieS wiri ina;caie-E ;-^tl;." just isn't a danand, a greatdqnard for office at this time. ce+ai;t;;-at that rocation. r think it,stime to develop this DrotrErty. r think ii's time to deverop that corner. rn
1115 -. y,rll g;I deveiopeA. Wlrether it,"-no, Ji ar sqne future rjme. Theconcern that r have is that rre continue to look at the separation oi-trredevelotrment fr*n the horneowners both on the liest arxl to the south ard Im verymuch concerned about the drainage issue. rt"i.;" going to be a 10t of vratercomi ng south arxr to the sou.thweit. rt;i r',.pp".i.g now in ru"t1J-ilire goingto intensify that r,rith any kind or "on"tr".iion. The b1g concern of course isthe- highway issue. r know we're on the rezoning issue but it all has to dowith rezoning. r'm for rezoning. pers.".iiv-ilir.e r think untiL we resorvethat ere can't go onto the. other-iisues on-ti,"Ji"ruinary plat arrr rook atwhere we're going. For the record, r,1l be ioi- rezoning this from or to BN.
Mayor Hamilton: rtrs certainly been a difficurt piece of rand to e,ork withover the years and r rike the plan r see. r rnow trra t office industrial spaceon the strip for j.nstance, has between tlZ "a")SZ vacancy rates. It,surderstandable that somebody wouldn'E,*ni lo-.o." in here and put in anyoffice/industriar. rt'= luit nor in asnana
-roi-it iigilr-";'Io'ii.'u"ly *o"r,in favor of rezonino this to BN. I think l.t,s a good use for the corner. I:I:. f:"I thar to reply to Mr. Connor,s crcrment, I think if there had beensomebody who wanted ro do, fert it was a gooa
'iesiaenti"r
."in"i, i ai=-i"""avairabre for so lonq that sorneone r^,,urd 6ave been rere requesting to do that.Ia ,pp"?I= rhar this is rhe. ]rs-e EhaE. rhe 6ptJ-r, Eh rhe money who wanr rornvest it to do sornerhing, this ir ti," .=E-tf,i| ,*r,a ao use it for and r thinkit's a good use for that corner.
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5I::_H:1.:n moved, counci Lnan GevinsRequest #85-2 to rezone 7.63 acres fromtusrness [Eighborhood, FirsE Readino asapprrcatron. A1I voted jn favor ex6epicarried.
-".!9* to approve the RezoningOI, Office Institutjonal to BN,
legally described in the proposed platC.ouncilman Bo).t who opposed "rrl ,ooiion
PRELIMINARY PLAT REQUEST 10 CREATE THREE CO}T,IERCIAL LC[S.
l'tayor Hamilton: !€ have outl.t A and B which wirr be devel.ped at a future
:r" ""o rhe rot c which tus the ..t ir =iiip ilnt.. on it hhich ke have before
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Cj.ty Counc j.1 l{eetj ng rpri I 25, 1988
Counci lman Johnson: My main co[ment on this one is rewordj.ng of condJtjon 1
r"rhich currently reads, approval of the preli.minary plat ard site plan shall becontingent upon the vacation of 64th Street right-of-way, approval of finalplat of the Reed prop.erty. I think werve got i real problem wj.th Options 3and/or 4 because I see this as an extreme, extreme might too far, I see this asa public safety issue ard a public convenj.ence issue. &lhen we culde-sac thatproperty, that forces these homeowners Iiving on Oriole and that area, they
have to exit onto TH 7. I trate exitirg onto TH 7 up there. I drive r:p thereevery once in a rrrtri re and r purposely go down oriole ard around on 54th streetso I can get onto Tll 41 where it,s much safer to drive. Scrnebody in a Trans Ammight have a better chance than me in my Horizon. r appreci.ate the developerspointirq out to I',lnDot that you can make that left turn }ane in there ardhopefully that will reork. Ihat.I s one pLace v.rtrere I saw death coning in my rear
view mirror one day. Vlhat I'd like to do is redo this nurnber I to make iL alittle more restrictive. Say, approval of the second reading of the zoning
ordinance change, preliminary plat ard site plan should be contirgent...
Ibyor Hamilton: HtEt page are )lf,u on?
Counci lman Johnson: Page 1I. tnder City @uncil reconrnendati on. First item.
Say approval of the second reading of the zoning ordinance charge, preliminaryplat and site plan shall be contj ngent upon the vacation of 64th Street right-
of-vJay, approval of a final plat for the Reed property with no conmercial, i.e.retail, business neighircrhood, etc., access to the relocated 64th Street. Ihen
contj.nue on the way it is. In other words, the purpos for moving 64th Stleetin the first ptace is to prevent c.,ocmercial t:affic from being on 54th Street.Thatrs one of the things the neighborhoods have complained about over the yearsis that traific. That was the nej.ghborhood clncern that I'm addressing heie.
The movq-nent of 64th Street to the south side of the Re€d property arxj thenrezoning the Reed property BN and allowing an access from this BN onto the
conmerciaL property has done absolutely nothing. A1I we did was separate. Ifthe Reed property can be serviced from the existing entrance on the proposed
shopping area wj thout havirg to have their own access to $I 41, which },lnDotwon't allov, th6Jn to have anyvay, without having access to 64th Street, then it
could work. But at no tjme will I vote for any plan that closes 64th Street,s
access to the TH 41 for any significant. period of time. It can be closed
during construction.
l,layor Hamilton: We're stj.1l on (b).
Counc ilinan Johnson: That j.s (b) .
lGyor tlami lton: You're talking about (d) now. Yourre on 64th street.
@uncilman Johnson: That's right. Condition I talks about 64th street.. If vredon't approve thj.s then (d) is justs out the window anylay. Thatrs the lengthof my real colTment on this. I do want Eo compljment the developers here
because they have gone a quantun l-eap I think from the ]ast develognent I saw
when I was here as a citizen, the citj.zens frcrn thjs area were also hereprotestjng Copperwood Develolments or whatever it was back then and we have
made scme improvernents here. I think Eherers room to work ard we might
actually get. lhis accomplished.
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Ciry counci l t4eer j ng - "(-rt- 2s, LgBg
counci lman ceving: r just-want to go back to. the l*tershed retention of thestormr^'arer to assure o:rs:ryes rhar. tha*s going to u"-i.t.;.J-.ill;ra" u.c ar,ustaff qldare is correct as far as ttr" .e"o.6 -is-.on""inJ -tr,".I i" iiua ar.,.irdication !'as that it's going to r" ."tri."a in tr,,o places. rs that correct?
Iarry Brown: Thatrs correct. On the southeast and northeast clrner.
Councilman Geving: you've calculated this out ard this will work?
f:X: ,.o""t I have checked the applican* s calculations and they are true to
councilman Geving: r stilr believe that r€rve got to get 64th street out tolll 41. I just feel that somehor^, or anothJ ilat,s got to happen. I erillcontinue to vrcrk in that regard - r nave no Jtr,"r "cnm"nt" Jirt-ti,. or"ating.r rhink we,re in good shape he." .na iJir'io ;",rs-;rh'rh.il"". -,= "
Counci lman Horn: l,Iy biggest concerns are the transportation. At one point hethought hE fourd a 'av to eriminate trre iert-turn on TH 7 which seqned to merike a good way to qo'. the problan r,. i..ilv having with this t*rore thing is$'hen r put together a whole ir.n"po.Liio;-thi,,, in a vaccun it makes a rot ofsense to go one r.,Elv but vrtlen r hear wtrat atl the neighborhood concerns are andthe developer con"6.ns 1d the p"opl" ,no n".rJ p.op".ay ard they vrant tou:ygaon in that area. this_sc"n".ii-i=nil friie =i^pr". r guess r,re have anurtimate access to Herrnan. Fierd nor./ but *v-iii"a irnpression on this is that r
',ould sorehow develop another ."..== to iil.,*"- ri"ri ."a iia-s.i'.i lirc.nu."out to I*t 4I and I,d take as many accesses off of TH Z ." f "J"fa.-- eriurderstanding the realities of wiat *;i.-:.i"i"S with, I would suppor t the lastreconrnendation which i.s to pur a culde_sac i;.' i-;hi.k ;;i;"1;8";:".compromise with arl the bodies arrl the ari trre
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peopre who are concerned aboutthis because iE is ooing to impact tir" n"ig"uo.nooa. Therers no question aboutthat. I think u,e'vJ oot to be sensitive tJ minimize it. Irm also concerned:T:! :!t: argrge-ncy lccess frqn the parrt ng iot. r ,* nor so sure how r€, regorng to handle that and r want uo ma-ke "uiJ tr,ut ,ne don,t misuse that ard havebicycles arxt rraiL Oin":-:T "r..ytning "i. gil.q back j.nto the neiqhborhoodthrough that area. r want to nnke sure,"e haidle thau. Just to .,#..i=", fthink rrtrat r're have here is tt,.- G"t-*ip;;#;: certai.nry it r.routdn,r be rhep)-an that r r"rourd have come up with trr"'iii"t-i;*" r ,ooked at this withouttearing al1 the input but I think it,= ,oif..Uf".
@unci]Jnan Bgyg; l.lo conments -
l''ayor Hamilton: I have no-probren planning and creatjng three conmerciar rotson this particular pi e<:,o of prop,e.tv. i irir"".= littLe probLem with the first;i::it;i:.H: f;I";"%" epprovar oi tt'is is con.rinsenE.upon approvar or ag: Rd;-"';i; ff.:=t !i_qi:* .:;:qi$ iil'.8.'3luu3,::;:;.:**";:il o.everything he can think for the ."*i'zg-vJ..="ufu n"rr.. reach an agresnent soj':.il1:rff..sk par, rhar doesn,r seem ti *".o'r" a reasonable thing to pur in
Pat FarreII: About half an hour ago I starred that particular point with aquestion mark. f,m not so sure th;t that is an appropriate cordjtion. Asr urderstand it' Ehere is not a preri.minary prat or any sketch pran or anythi ng
38
Citi Council Meeti ng rrprif 25, l9B8
by l,lr. Reed at thi.s point. I understand where you're trying to get to. Ithink itrs appropriate for the Councj.I to apply pressure, if that's the rightchoice of v,rords, upon the developer to acquire this right-of-way and the layoutof the Reed property ard that it aI1 be considered but that's not the way to doir.
l4ayor Hamilton: I rrould prefer to see us put conditi.ons in that the developcontinue to work wj.th the Reeds as far as developj.ng their property ard getiing
access to it. I'tre could actuarly leave 64th street as it is for this parcel todevelop as lorg as the developers ned to work with the Reeds to continue to
come up with the proper layout for their prolErty.
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Pat Farrell: One of the things, as I understard this layout, you may have togo to the Reed protErty to accomplish the connection of the street. One of thethings that you couJ.d put in there that in the event that access is not
obtained through the Reed property ard the City has to ccrne in with j.t, the
developer pay for it. That might be a little bit tough but it's the only thingthat I can think of at thj.s point. you're going to need that and it,s going tocost money unless he p1ats. If he chooses not to plat, you have a problsn thatrequires a solutjon that requires money.
Barbara Dacy: 1\,ro points of clarificatj.on. The protrErty couldn't go ahead ardbuild with the full access onto 1]rI 4I ard with 64th Street there. I',tnDot hassaid, if they rntant a fu.L1 access, 54th Street enErence has to go.
I'layor Hamilton: They said that specj.fically?
Barbara Dacy: Right. In thejr letter that,s atteched to the report. If I
can, maybe the AEtorn3y can help me out, if the rsords in the cordition are notphrased the right way, maybe lie can -work together Eo reword that so that j.t is
appropriate but the point being is thaE the intenc is that the City wants toinsure that the realigned 64th Street i.s connected to TH 4I and we want that
surety prior to thsn buildj.ng on this lot. The intent being is th3t the onLy
way we roould get to thj.s point l^rould be to have an assurance that the
developmen! contracts there which is usually as a result of a plat application.
HovJever, if you're saying that a plat j.s not necessary but some other t)?e of
assurance, staffrs objective j.n any case was to inake sure that 54th Street
$,ou]d be reconnected.
l4ayor llamilton: I understand that and I thjnk thatrs a good idea. However, totie it to another person t s ptatting of their lard is unreasonable I thj.nk to
the developer in this case.
Pat Farrell: ILlegat too.
Mayor Hami lton: okay, illegal. t-etrs come right out ard say it. As a
corditlon of the develo[ment contract I thj.nk it could be put in there that the
deve.l-oper needs to cont j.nue rnor k ing wj.th the Reeds. What I was tryj ng to sayj.s that we'II attsflpt to work wj.th the Reeds and rrith the developers to
accomplish tIj.s so thaE itrs fair with everybody but allowing the developers to
contjnue with their project so thj.s thj.ng doesn't sit here for another coupleof years.
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+a y Counci I t4eering - {r, 25, l98g
Gary !€rren: I think, arrl qre,re trying to stay on each item here but as Iprepared by staff merno for the vacaiio; issue, it goes over ard over here howcan you strEc even in a-deverognenr conrract perforriance fo; ;;; Ji-i'it", *,"tat this point is almost out oi his control. 'Tt"t being. the Reed property. Irdbe urcornfortabre a rittre bit r gueis .u"n- t.yrr,g to lrrite a condition that
".ys I'Iou have to provide a connection or wesi'enln sEreet Eo tr,.-nJJ'prop.cvor $Drds to that effect in that it r.outd be pretty difficult ao-..iil, enforce.EVen with a re*er or credir or anvtrrine rik;-il;i.*il;;['*y ir#'..*n* ,.saying Ehe carl r+ould haye to ue nraae i3 ;;;-r., wrEh a qrr-de_sac and areverse scenario erith a 10t of our subdiviiions tr,at r,"e ena r:p Ju"ri'g ,ith,hfiere he rry to preserve righr_of_wav-i.i-trr""f.tr;. -H# ;r;;:.;? one andyou're beirg asked to vacate it- rt* q,r."tion ls can you live with a culde_sac wi th furr intent thaE r.,t*n n*a or'coron-or. rotir .&r. in tira[ Llura R,snthrough ar scrne tine in tl* future. ott.*i"" ri-g.t" pr"iivirilrff.lur. ,.*ny pers;4ct_ive.
r'layor Hamilton 3 rt r s kird of wf.tever cDrks. gr'tever is going to rcrk iswhat ought to be done- -rf cur-de-sa"id -;4ih street ard cl0sirg it on rt 4r is$'haE has to be done so iE can move forwird then r think t'at shourd be done sothis project can move ahead ard. then v"r-"*'Ili[ continue to s.rk with the@*ens and the Reeds to accompl ish t triterrer is going to happen there anc thedeveloper wiII be involved in tlnt.
Gary vhrren: If someone r,ordered the assessnents that ale presently againstthe, leed property are a legitjmate issue-tnai-needs Eo be deart with here if rree'ourd vacate a portion of test oath streei'-Lause there is access and thereare assessments that need to i:e paid and that cauld be a job of nsz-ii th"council would choose to go with irri " ""ij._iu".
Pat Farrerr: r don't see lhat that requi rernent is so ownerous. r think ere'rearr nuking too much of ir.. r rhink ril-;;qri;;nr rhar there be a connecrionEo the other road is a regitimare ..q"i.;;;l-;f prat atprovar under MinnesorastaEute and even the cost of that .o; ;;id -; appropriately charged againstthe developer - That's not to say that tha neJ's ough! to have a free ride.There oushr to be sorne arscussioi ;;;r; jt iriln or rhar bur r rhink rhisCouncil could legitifiately requi re ti,ut u" u-"oo:i.ion of plat approval.
P* F*?r I,m just confused here. yourre Ealkj.ng about a cul_de_sacterminatirs in the middre 95 qe nJ;s;;;;;y ard yer you,re ratkirs abouEclnnecrins ro rH 4r. r,rcw ir vou connecr * r, ir,'J'i-Llx"r"'uil'|ii?u." u.rydefiniEety' But if vou cutdS-sac in n"ea rs -property,
r'm out of Ehe pjcture.In any c'ase, I,m for the develolment.
lrayor Hanilton:
'hat
r"rs,1g sayi ng is that ,ne HanE to connect to TH 4I at someEime' t{hen rhar hapoens is noi ci."i .a-ir,i.I tl*". sEatt is saying r"e wantthat and the councii'Js say'ng we want tr,ut
"o,in."u on _to be made someday. rfrt has to be a tenporarv cu-t-;c-sac now foi J-or:oa of tirne until the Reed,soeclde hov, ttrey rnran t to'develop. u.,"i,-p..il.Iyf tn.t,. a possi.bility but ue:::';.ffita.ttocorxl j bion evervthing on in"'Hsii. a",r" rogoenr by whar rhe Reed r s
ffr"ffH:;*:"u berrcr conrinue rhen, Reed has ro pror his land so rhaE iE can
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l4ayor Ha.nilton: ThaE's correct. Thatts r"rhat wetre tryj.rg to get done.
Ben Gowen: Itrs noE fair to him.
l4ayor Hamilton: Irie're trying to be fair to everybody. !.Ie're trying to make
sure that everybodyrs needs are taken care of ard re can move ahead here. I
guess I wish r^re had this worked out ahead of time with the legal counsel. i.E
could figure out sGrE way to handle Ehj.s itsn.
Counci lman Boyt: Can we strike "approval of" in what's in parenthesj.s there
ard then accept whatrs Left?
C.ourrci lman Geving: I think r,e should.
Barbara Dacy: Irm sorry, what are you referring to in parenthesis?
-Courcilman Boyt: Approval of final plat for the Reed prolErty, just strike
that phrase -
l4ayor Hamilton: Cood idea.
Counci lman Horn: I thj.nk the T'H 4I issue j.s somethj.ng we have to deal wjth
Iater. I don't think we can tie it to this.
Courrcilman Geving: V'lhen we see Reed I s plat.
* A motion was made at this point with ttre following discussion.
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Counci lman Johnson: The rest
develognent contract wi th the
at a develolment contract for
credit, etc. the rest of that
to TH 41.
of this thj.ng talks about Ehe execution of a
City of Chanhassen. I belj.eve staff was looking
developing 64th Street to Ttl 41. A letter of
is in reference to the realigrment of 54th StreeE
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l4ayor Hamilton: I think thatrs exactly what werre saying is going to have to
happen.
Councj Iman Johnson: You can't execute a develolment contract until you have
approval of fi.nal pLat. I donrt what !,,e just gained by getting rid of that.
Mayor HamilEon: You're not tying it up with the Reed pro[Erty. ltre thing can
move ahead.
Councj.lman Johnson: r€'re going to have to get a develo[xnent contract from
sqrebody to develop. As I read this..-
Irayor Hamjlton: !.ie're talkj.ng about Hszrs property. I{lt the Reed property.
Thi.s does not pertain Eo the Reed property.
Courcilman Johnson: It used to be until rnre rsnoved that one. the develolment
contract. . .
I'iayor Hamilton: tb. AII it said about the Reed property !,,as approval- of the
final plat for the Reed property. It didn't say qe were having a deveLognent
r' City Councj.l }4eet ing t.rpril 25, I9B8
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iity courcir D,reerins - o{.r, ,r,
I4ayor Hamilton:
Courci Inan Horn :
1988
;:$:::;."*
the Reed prolErtv or anldcodv else. Atl this rErraj.ns ro rhe Hsz
@urci1man Johnson: ok:y, ti:n you're goi.ng with the- rest of this. So tlreyhave to have 54th streer corqrretirv reuiig;ac ro rH 41 p.ioi-to-'iil alrovat orthe preliminary plar ana siti plani -----'"--
I{ayor Hamilton: lttatrs qrtEt it.satE here. As far as Irm crncErned, you couldhave a tanporary culde_sac untir iuctr-tirl ;" !!; R"i"";;;:;E;"i.p.rhere,s aII kinds of ray you can solve ttai pioUfqn.
councilman Johnson: Thatrs h,hat r"e have to do here. your motion diarn,t tarkabout the teroporary cul{e_sac.
!,byor Hamilton: Thatrs erhy re have discussion-
Counci lman Johnson: Iim against the tqporary culde_sac if you.re going todiscuss tsnporary cul<e_sacs.
f:fi P" B"y: r l.ty_ probtan is thar re,re ratking about G4r,, srreer. can,r r.!elusE vote on these things one thing at a tirne ard take the issue anr if re,vegot an issue with G4th, do it then I
!''layor Hamirton: ltey're intertr"rined. you're talking about one issue. !{arretarkirg about one itsn on the. approval p.o"u"" -ot
the preliminary prat. Thisis one of the conditions and in- -one or irr"-"onaitions it talks about 54ths.reet to t, 4l- you canrt eriminate th.a.--;;'." going to get back Eo it ardtalk about it some more in a eew minutes.--
Counci lman Bol&: Do r.E have a moEion on the table?
I{ayor Hamilton: yes qe do have a motion on the floor-
@uncilman Boyt: I call a quesEion.
Hf'"Hii:::i #:::"i:rstilr discussion. Jay !,Jas rarkj.ns abour iE. Did you
Courcilman Johnson: As I -urderstand your moti.on then v,e get exactLy ertlat I$'anE $'i th the exceotion of r r.tourd lii" ao ;;-;omethi.n9 in conli tion or* thatrestricts cormerci.ir ac.ess to 54th street. one,of Ehe original complai nts ofthe neighbors is thar it r,ourd increase trre tiairic up orioie ard tirlougtr their;:Si:HTl"ir conmercial had di;a-a;..." to-ia*, s!..ut ,,ti.i, ;"'rili tn.
C.ourci lman Horo: Ihis doesn, t have thaE.
councirman Johnson: I'!e feed had stated thaE he wants to put conmercial on Ehetront 3 acres of tln E which ,i.ii tG-L;-u""'I"= ro 64r.h streer.
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Thatrs not a part of this.
lbt necessar j.ly.
{Cj.ty Counci 1 |4eet j ng - Apri1 25, I98B
Counci Iman Johnson: It cluId.
IGyor Hamilton:thatrd be a whole other ISSUC.
Calculat.j.ons verifying adequaEe pressure cordi t j.ons for the sprinktersystsn of the proposed retail buil-dj.rq should be suhnitted for approval bythe City Ehgineer prior Eo the issuance of a buildi.ng permit.
The proposed saniEery sewer ard watermain systerns inEernaL to the sjte willbe constructed and rnaintained as private utj.litj.es. The City of Gtanhassen
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councilman Horn: l'hat's the whole point. !{e can,t put a restriction on vrhatthe Reed property is in respect to this property. that $rilr take a whore otherplat when that cqnes in ard then we,l1 Ge--.
councilman Johnson: I,[e could at least tark that our intent is not to F]tconmercial traffic on 64th street so that vrhen the Reeds, a future cou'ncir canrook at our minutes and when the Reeds crune in here arrl say okay, the whole64th street was rearigned to avoid conmerciar, one of the irr.po-=o was to avoidconmercial traffic on O'riole tane.
Mayor Hamilton 3 werl, ).ou said it. Euture counci I is not bound by anything wedo so it doesn,t really matter if rue say it or not.
counci rman Johnson: rt rnatters if r."e say it because it ruight help svray thefuture council one vray or the other as to what r€ are thiniing at- the iime.
Mayor Hamilton moved, courri lman Horn seconded to approve subdivision Request
#85-7 subject to the plat stamped "Received March 7, 1988'r, the grading arddrainage plan stamlEd "Received April 6, 1998", the utility ptan stampldrrReceived April 6, 1988', arrl subj ect to the followirg corrlitions:
1. Approval of the preliminary plat ard site plan shall be contingent uponvacation of 64th Street right-of-oay, exe"ution of a deveJ.olment contractwi.th the city of Granirassen, firing of a letter of credit *ith tr,e city ofChanhassen from a recognj.zed financj.al instj.tution authorj.zed to dobusj.ness in the State of Minnesota and a form subject to the City ofchanhassen's reasonable approvar, ard reaLigmnent of 64th sEreet to .IH 4r.
2- The applicant shall enter into a deverolment contract with the city andprovide the necessary fj.nancial sureties to guarantee the proper
. installatj.on of the E:blic irnprovsnents.
3- The developer shalr obtai.n ani conply vrith arr corxlitions of the watershedDistrict permit.
4. Hay bales shall be placed and staked around all storm sewer inlets.
5. wood fiber branket or equivalent sharr be used to sEabirize aLl disturbedslo[Es greater than 3:1.
6. The appljcanE shall obtain and comply wjth atl cond j. tions of the tErmj_tsfrom the Minnesota Departrnent of Transportatj.on.
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Cj.ty Counc j.l I'heting -f.,, ,u, 'r*
will not be responsible for any maintenance of the utilitiesexception of publjc storm se$rer drainage faciiiiies) internal
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A11 voted in favor arxl motion carried.
An acceptabre traffic sign and pavqnent marking plan shalr be suhnitted tothe City Erlg ineer prior to the issuance ot " 1,1;. fa;..,g permit.
specific plans ard specificaEions rrtrich address the sEEci fic aligrrnent,instarration anr erosion.contror for tt" pi.p=.a "to.. *r.r-]vi[J'*,r"abe. suhnirted and approved by the city-nn9l;;;;.ro. ro Ehe issuance of abuilding -oermi E.
the applicant sharl suhnit a revised erosion control plan subj ect to thealproval of the city Brqineer prior to ttre issuance oi a uuir6ing p#;.
srrE PI"AN REVTEI{ FoR coNsrRUcTroN oE A 25,92a seuARE Fogr R'IATL cENTm..
counci lman Eloyt: r'd llle. t? s?Ir. by saying to rhe neighbors uho are here, J!!irk.vr: have a good point in which io uil-'i"r...g. arrl rha*s in how thissrte js developed. r think you're going uo t""" to sho!, scne inequities in howit's developed to sr{av soneb6oy "r=" on'tt" duncir if you want to defeat tnezoning change. on frow it's a"ir"f op"al"ti,"-pilnni.rg @nmission made cqrmenrabout scotch pines- r r.rasnrt .r".3 oi tni.-trt one of the planning conmissionmembers said that tJrev cccasionaffy lrov,n- ofil fs that right, Does anyoneknow? youtre using a Iot of scotcfr pines. '
:::itri:l[:": thev actuarlv turn s:rple. that's the fatt coror. rhey do ser
Councilman Boyt: Ihey don,t defoliate?
Craig Johnson: I,JeII, all pines do. Ihey go in cycles of 3 years perhaps. Itdepends on the speci es but-arl pin"" i.oi iieir neeor.s in cycles of 3 ro 5years but rhen each vear rhey gio" th;-IgJii-- ,tua'= the lvay rhe pines qDrk.
Councilman Boyt: What
whar_ r'm .rt"i "i= ffi.J.i :::L;".i-. ?:::,::;"r,r.H:19"1:: ffi;:: :j:ff ;S.and r '*ould like to see scrne sort of blerd so r{E.donrt have alr of one kirxl oftree' rf for some reason they q"t =t.u.k-uf-uti=uu=u, herre out of a visuarbarrier' so rnavbe vou car]. nr6#---".."''oiil.l looronriarc rl.Es of pines rharare dense. r have I quesrion "l"rj gi;Jiigl" tr. th.r" extenlive gru5ing goingff"'L;H=.?':ffi':[i, rt Iooks .o ;'i;i;"i;"'i'i" .*t.n"ive sradlns. !iha*s
[arry Brown: 'Ihe dooth of the cut uould be fairly minimal. It,s going to be:::.::'1.#?:Tir:j.:: ,r,,..=.,.i""".;;"S,';i: eradins arons rhe-souihrnesc
Councj lrnan Boyt: So rar=, re talking about how much fill? How many feet? GiveIne a sense of what ,"re're ;311;p9. - 2g2 oiiig;al r q.uld like to see thaE asyou develop rhis conceDr, i-Ehi;k an.i .L"'IJli or rnaybe a tero riered pinearrargemenE so that itis not just single tr.".-i" sort of a row even th6ugh
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City Councj.l lL"ting{ap.11 25,
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councr lman Geving: I think i.t qpurd be appropriate again for J.D. to come backup here arxl persent th3t landscaping and berming plan one more time arxJ give usan idea on your board here- r want to know hhether or not r.re're rooking at itfrorn tle lyest or r"e' re rooki.ng at it f rom the south . Itsl r us again rntrat kind-of benning you're planning on the uest side wtrich faces the resildentiar areaard potentiarry to the south where there could be scrne residential propertieslooking to this site and arso the extent arrl tlpe of greenery chat you;lt have.
. The types of trees- How tal1 they will be and so forth.
craig Johnson: First of arl, ret me introduce myserf. Irm Craig Johnson fromBarrientos and Associates. t& are landscape architects ard engineers.Initially ql3 rrent Ehrough the process of the plannjng Comnissi6n approval,deveLoping ard screening, eEc. the issues. On the west side, r^re aj-io h"veextended the scotch pines. Ihere is potential for a berm to run from theright-of-e,ay rine to approxi.matery this point here. That bermirq then rDurd beaccented by conifers. rhose c.onifers, r.re selected the scotch pr'.ne because oftheir rapid growth first of all ard their abiri.ty to wi thstard drought arri thesoil conditjons that are on the site. hh cauld intermix, I donrt d" "r,yproblen with intermixing specj.es. particularly if something becomes veryLinear and the contrast uDurd be very nice. tg also introdrlced deci.duous
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your row aptrEars to be somewhat staggered, that rae realJ-y make that very dense-r !,Jould rike to see, r-appreciate the genil<nan, s conment about more total roofscreening. rt sourds rike you've done a good job from dre iriqhvraf-ani f.o. .qood bit of rhe housirq in rookirg at youi peripective. r ..liiv'tr,ilx tnutthe view of the roof, .= yoo .9."6, is-ver1i important and we sho-uld make everyeffort to make it a preasant view for thos6 who are going to rnve-io'iook at itso if roe can screen off any kind of structures r4r there. - rhatrs all i,ve got.rrm sure interestd in other coments frqn the councir.. r think init-tni", tome the acceprance of this in rhe neighborhood is goinj t d;;; i'lieat aearon what it looks like- It aptrEars like it looks pretiy nicre frcrn d" -i,igf,r.y.
!,lhatrs it Iook like from the neighborhood?
councilman Horn: Did ',e ever get an answer to the question about the height ofthe bui ld j.ng being appropriate?
Barbara Dacy: yes- r4r- wagner raised that issue arso. the zoning ordinancestates that the maxi,nun height is one story ard his question was wfrether or notthat met 'he Building code. Arthough m not exactrt familiar with thecontents of the Building code, they will have to meel that. There are portions.of the elevation that do extend above 2a feeL and that's tn" c"nt"rl"rvapproach. The height of the occupied area wiU be I think upp.o*;rn teiy fZfeet in height and it is our inteipretation that that net thi one storvrequirsnent- I4hatever the Buirding code sa).s, we have to do anyway. io if ithas Eo be reduced, it has to be reduced.
'Councilman Horn: I guess rny only concern is I,m not a real fan of the vinylclad vinyl. Obvjously j.f. sornebody wants the green stuff, rrell, now l^e,ve gotred and black stuff but that seerns to be what everyboay is buiiaing with these
9uy=- olrrenrly r don't believe our ordinance is iluite "t"u. o, tiul-i==r".I. know 've had a tough time defining !,rhat I s an acceftable metal ard \.rhat isn , t.It seems like that corregated clad metal is fine but if you,ve just gotcorregated metar, that r"Durdn'it be fine. My particular |refereice i6 not forthat kind of appearance.
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trees. ltle Norr,,rav oine to break that 14> also in yiew of the contrast to t,.'edeciduous and conif;r Erees. They'|re u'"J-ii*it.ary on the west arxl sou.hbecause they do not provide "int.r ="."enini."" l*,*," maximized the south andEhe west wi t'lt everoreens- ge it austrian-pi*
"na scotch pine ard werve brokenrhat up with decidriou= .!I.". ..n u".*V lLpi.l Then he go Eo rhe setback:::-ni,rS in this general area. v,l" "*i..alJ
- ihe planning Conmission,srequl rsnents in reqards to overhead
".nopy o. -L""
and ari addition.i Lr.ning.planr marerial r.puia *-!1:".{ "t g.uJ"-to-prJvide, r believe it was 8sBopaque in the winter ""::_.:. tnterially r.re,ie-,r"ea a Iighter Honey tocust, thesunburst Honey tocust which rculd arrow'roi iiqnt sbaae arrr sone view into theretail c=nter which is very criticai-t; d; i"i.t op". but also adds scrne shadefor vehicurar anr users' For the "nt.u.,.--J-iecided to create, increase theimpact of the sense of arrivar lv-ali.iJirfr u" ."nop arl the way up throughard then orienratinq rhat-ro.rhe ;";a;;-;r^rL'projg"i ;iL. *di:
"T"o'py *rrabe rnade by the r,ittie r,e"t iirr'"nl-"il';. lT"'.v ni". spring bloom and r thinkthat is just another accenr to tre sense-or-r.iiiur. rd-;i;r;;;";'Ia"o ,r".yfragranr so the drive in wili u. ;i;r"rrv i51..
Counci.lman Geving: On day one- when you open Eh: center ard the lardscaping isrn, how tall wiII those trees le on trre,*=l "ia" ot ti,"i-a.,rJ#;;;*
craig Johnson: [^Ie r re oroposing to use 6 foot trees at tifie of instal]ation ardalso a 12 foo.' t€ nrlce *re rz root i" trr"
-*".t strategic rocation adjacentto rhe buirdirg and L've arso inrroduc"o l-u"ii""" sdne 12 foot at this point*":.u H:.oi;L:ru" r,,ourd mainly u" o-it[ ]iJ-.i.,.., tr.,;"-ii."t-=i..i.i-*ura
Counci Iman Gevinq: How high :..s that berm on the rrest side? T.II us rrltat theview is frcrn Secfion A? Are v,re looking f.*, tt" wesE to the east?
tjri {iity Council t4eeting _ April 25,I9B8
is the south face ard tl1is is the section. Ihis r|llculd be on
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J.D. I4acRae: Thisthe !.Jest.
CounciLman Geving: ziegler's home for example.
J.D. l,tacRae: Riqht. T?finS up through what rre-call Ehe auxillary bui.tdjng.You have heard rfiat buildins'woi,r b-Brri^i-irghr away.o it t*uiJ,f, Lrmea upand dropped back down .o u iruc'uririirg.^"rriil.. rhi.s secrion is jusc turrhersouth of tltis one- 'Itris.one actuarly cits into the mjddre of the c6nter.!'ib're showing ar th j s ooint. r"e've !;i .da;'; fooE high berm here. Thj spor.nt $rerre also 4 feei high. * il n*""r'.In*an. 0."* side, due to therncline, r.re're showi.no a. z-root'Lri ii-d."H.r =ia". Ncw again, as wasbrought upr ar rhis '6int ,*'.. ra:io-;;;-ntt, The rhoushE was rhar beinsthat the properrv conrinueo__to-r"ir-.riri.il}'.a t,,e same revel. r,ihen youget down here, you're lookirq up j.nto ttre Uuil6irq through the berm. you,vegot secrj.on A rhar qrenr T::ysh' .t "".r)<iir"IV.L1, ]'o,.,n- secrion B rhar hEnEarors a portion of rhe huirdi,rg- - ;ecli;'8'i."ir..rrq rhroush rhe bui Idirg onthe uest end' section n is culti.ng tn.orgn it ". tt" east end. secEion E thegrade starrs ccrni nq uo as.64r-h d:=;;-;H *!"1. o or. The grade di fferencers very minimar. fo.L ,,.,rr" q"a ;-: ,I.I.iigffL*..
Councilman Gevinq: rrm satisfied with that. I jxst want to advj se you thought}tat this is the-tlrj.no thaE Mr. Connors ""a-ru. Wagner here referrj.n! to. IEaL$/ays s*fls like the developer shor.s
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{City Councj I t,4eeti ng - Aprj 125, 1988
_ Gary warren:It r"rill cover everythirg.
counci lman Johnson: r vri u- have to revert back. r did mean to rnention thattherers one thirg that we,ve doing with residential areas on trees wheresomebody, there's one down here where they put in }4arshall Seedless Ash toevery front yard, straight in a line. If a disease cqnes through like theDutch Elm or htratever that affects }4arshalL seedress Ash, it wiies thern aL
9rt_. Thatts v.rhy I think I'd like to see a mixture of your "rrergreens aLonE theback to where i.f somethi ng is going to ccrne i.n that,s loing to iipe out scotcnpines, that we don'E rose arr ihe irees across the bac[. it ,,e rri'r" a mixtureof scotch or Marsharl or rafiatever. somethl ng that r,ourd be sriqhtry different.
- Counci lman Johnson 3 I don't have a lot of problerns with this.
I'rayor Hamilton: r don't either. r think it,s a nioe plan. r'd just like tosee the same tl49e of nnterials used on this buirding .. i. r"in! isJ aowntor^,n.r like that retair rrrest or $rhatever it's carled. r don,t know if itis the samething or not but if ',e can do something simitar to that it wour.d rook nice.
Barbara Dacy: The only thing that's metal is on the roofing. The rsnainder isconcrete and rock faced block.
f ]TI^r::tlLn:S. ve approve. t}le project and the landscapj.ns is the tast rlins
I ::-:o,-]l-uq they generally skip so I assure you that we,lt be warching forf that klnd of thing not happen on thi.s project.
' c'ouncilman Johnson: Do_ t're have any finarcial assurance that if lardscapingdoesnrt go in, that v;e have any uay of putting it in?
Gary warren: i{e! 11 have a letter of credit.
"'councilman Johnson: the retter of credit w'iIr cover randscaping?
Councilman Horn moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to approve Site ptan Reguesc
#86-2 for the construction of a 25,92q sqrare foot ietajl center based on u.lesj.te_plan sta.'nped "Received March 7, 1988', ard the lighting, landscaping,
, utilities and grading plans stamped .'Received april 6, 1986; subject'to tt".following corditions:
1. A1I bituninous areas shatl be lined with concrete curb.
2. The buirdirry permi b for the retair center wiLl not i. ssued untir the cityhas approved the vacation of 54th street i.ncruding subnl.ssion of financial. sureties ard execution of the develolmenE contract to insure that 64thStreet will be realigned to intersect TH 4I in another location.
3. Conpl iance with all corditions of the Subdivj.sion Request #85-7.
AII voEed in favor and rnotion carried.
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City Council r',reering - oilrt 25, l9g8
PUBLIC HEARII\re FoR PARTIAT VACATIoN oE wEsT 6+ftI stREEf,.
lEyor fhmilton called the Sublic hearing to order.
$rV neea: I guess I'm a little confused on what yourve struck frcrn theplanning ccnmission. rt seems rike rrve lost a riitle u; t -.i-Lig"l;iig po*..I guess if you donrt approve, ard I guess I urxjerstard that you aiprove theconc-epr of rhe cul-de-sac withour extension of that to Ttt 4rl is li.rii'L.r*tz
l,layor Hamilton: Right.
Cary Reed: Ihen if it is extended, then I rrrcuLd not be able to get a BN tlpeof zonirg on my frontage there. Is that correct?
l,,ayor Hamilton: l.b, I donlt know r*rere pu came up with that.
@uncilman Johnson: r tried for that ard it didnrt get put in the motion.
Ciary reed: Irm just trying to sort this thing out.
l4ayor Hamilton: I€ canrt dear with somethirg thatrs not before us is the wholething. you say you want some BN...
Gary Reed: r'm just trying to get a feer for where rrm at r.sith the frontage.
I4ayor liamilton: what rrd like you to do is make coment on the road. Thepartial vacation of lEst 64t} Street.
Gary Reed: I canrt really make a corment on it if I don,t kno$, wt't it,s go'ngto,do. At.this point Im for that concept. Not extending west oath st.."t unocur-de-sacing. it. r guess ]rou guys heari that there was "oo" i"iu.. piin ro,reconnecting it. well, I trarle no future plan for that. The only fudie pLan fT:19 h"": r'ouId be nraybe utilizing a rot- on the south side if there rras some$Jay to qet into Bents Droperty if Lnat r,puld work out. BuE accordi.ng to you.cul-de-sac. prans, r sulss thai r.rpurdn,r r" " "iJru].: ;-;;;;";o.t.i"""*,.r,.trould be that it sesns to me they want the road rearigned with the schoor exit.Is that correct?
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lrayor Hamilton:
real critical.
Ben c'uen: r thi.nk it's pretty important to figure out r,rha t your plan
's forconnecting. rf you connect it; it-rnakes a tot 6f di ff.."n". irr.,"i"'.no- to*you're going to do it. Can )rou give us u"y "iu" what you plan on Eor thefuture connection?
l4ayor Harnilton: rhatrs something that's going to have to be worked out with theproperty owners. Itrs preEty hard forui to-*y.
there's been sorne discussion of that but I don,t think that,s
If they did then rne luould be dealing with Ben so it's noE all on
EBen Gor^En: I.,Jhen?
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Gary Reed:
my shoulders.
Mayor Hamilton: As soon as possible:
Ben Cj()lten: Before they start building or !,rhat?
l4ayor Hamilton: That's right.
Ben Got4En: lten you're requirj.ng Ehexn to conect to Tfl 4I?
l,layor Hamilton: TtEtrs right.
Ben Gor."en: tlc you have that perogative to requi re that?
l,hyor Hamilton: Sure.
Ben @r,ren: I doubt that -
Malor Hamilton: thatrs l4) to }rou. you can talk to llour attorney I guess.Ours tells us $re have every right to do that so thatis hrhat rc,va do;e.
Ben Gorn=n: then if you. re going to connect, hole are lou going to c€nnect? Itredrawings you're showing here don't shor., it on my property except for the verylast 20-39 feet. rhese are sketches r realize uut ii itls a si.t"h, let,s talkabout what the reality is.
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l4ayor Hamilton: t€'re tarki.ng about parti.al vacation of existi.ng t^Iest 54thStreet ard how 54th Street gets reconnected to 1+l 41 is scrnethi.ng q,e just,thatrs sornethi.ng that the developers are going to have to lrork out ,iinyourserf ard with the Reeds ard see where it comes out. rf they can,t reach anagresnent, then the city is going to have to go through a condsnna ti on processto accompJ. ish it. l,lb can,t sit here tonight arxJ say rne know j.t's going toconnect up here, here or here because tae haven,t any idea. It,s going toconnect up r^ri th TlI 4I sonepJ-ace.
Ben Cowen: ltla t !,rasn't my urderstanding coming in here tonight. you guys arereally goirg to connect it up regardless.
l4allcr Hanilton: that's wha t the motj.on that rrras lEssed, thatrs what jt
conEains.
Ben Cowen: It doesn't seern very fair.
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l,Hyor Hamilton: I thought you vrere j.n favor of it jusE a minute ago.
Ben Govren: Irm in favor of the project, yes but not jn bejng told what j.s
going to hap6En to my road. I'd like to have a say so.
l4ayor tamilton: You'll have a say. I'm just telling you rjght no$, that uEdon't know where 64th SbreeE is goinq to connect back with Ttf 41. i€ don,t
know tiat yet. ft's going to connect up with it sqneplace. 'Ihat's going tohave to be worked out wj.th you, with the Reeds.arxi with the deveJ-opeis.
Roger Zahn: I may have wai ted too long to make thjs corment. I $ras trying toaddress your concern about waitirg until rE get to (d) to talk about G4th. r€have r^orked extensively with the Reeds and with !4r. Cowen ard we have no
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City Councj I tleerlng {onrr, 25, I9B8
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City Counc j I l,leet i ng -{,.,. ,r, ,r*
objectj on personally as far as being the developers to connectj ng up to 1,Il 4I.This proposal came as a resurE of our. ristening to thsn arn prop6sirg it theway they wanted to have it done and tiat,s the eEy rE r,,ourd rike to see italso. Am I to understarxl that you have already voted.
Mayor Hamilton: f guess I don't know how else to say it soit. If I couLd draw a picture or scrnething, I guess I,d do
that lrou urderstard
that but...
Roger zahn: so you are going to cordernn 64th if r€ can't rmrk scrnethi.ng out?
l4ayor llamilton: yes, that r*ould be our only choice at this point.
Roger zahn: Could r.re cT: tck.aF ask you to culde_sac it at a future pointin time? I€ trave worked hard wit,. those'peolie ard that,s crearry what .,Eyrirant oo. their protErty. rt isnrt reatty -ttrai rte \,€nt to do any one of thesethings in particurar except r,E want to ivork with the peopre in the neighborhoodard thatrs r^itrat qe've tried to do and r,{e've t"ffr"O "*i"rli;"il;; [f,.;,"really. rftat they want. It sesns like sqnehow this deliberati6n got ;f* ortof their hands arri it certainry wasn't our intent. I€'u cooperate withh'hatever you forks srhat us to do but v"e do vrant to support thsn. That wasn,tour intention to get this thing set up that *y, .,oa at aII.
Counci lman Horn: It was rq/ intent that what r{e were proposing vras what yourec-omended witi the cur-de-sac. That res my intenti;n l"a r-dr"ugi,t-that q,ashow ve changed the i.rording. That,s my impreision of hrhat he hrant it to be.
counci lman Johnson: r very crearry statd and restated tlat tiatrs not what$re're votirg for.
councj.Inan Boyt: I'd like to take a shot at this if I might- I think aII lredid was say rte took off a constraint on you that said that 1,1r. Reed r s finalplat had to be approved before you courd do anything. Ttren r think r^e had saidall along,-the_ planning @nmission had said trrit we think that it makes senseto eventually have this hooked up to TH 41. r don,L see that ,..;"" "r,."g.danything except r,r,e said to you, yo,rr project Joes not have to vrait untir hisproject is approved.
*layor Hamirton: rtem l of the planning conrnission's approval did not changeother than to take our the Reed,s neceisity to have their plat .ap;;;j.[IoLhing changed other than that.
Counci lman Horn: It doesnrt work.
courci rman Geving: r have to rej.terate- l4y intention and my thoughts qhen r,,Ieapproved this $ras thar rre wgre olry striri.rq a few words vrhi;h reii';;t theReeds from their approvar of thei.r pr.t. ai.o tnere's a bottom rine, there,s avery rast rine of thar oarticulu. "onoiiio.,-r]
'rt turr" about 64th street afirthat should be struck as qer.. 'Ihe very lasf-6 0r 7 words of that condition r.should also be struck because it refers to ine reatigrrnent of 64th Street.rtrs my urdersrardins Eha r_hrtrat t*;Ii-;p;;-ri" un intent at some future timeto realign 64th streeE ro. TH 41. Just an ;;'a";. Ar someti.me as l,tr. Reedcomes i n with his pIaE, that rculd be ,-rr.J-.ri . what r€ voted upon !,Jas theculde-sac that. was shoi^,n to us on Ehe pfan. -tnrt,s the v,ay I read it.
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{City Councj I Meeti ng-
Mayor HamiLton: that I scul-de-sac it tanporaril
fine.
because thatts v,hat I had said that if you want toy until at sqne point iE gets to TH 41, then that,siI
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counci lman Johnson: that's vrhy r pointed out that this rast sentence e,as thereard that tue, were sayirg Ehat they -ourdn't cur-de-sac it. r ti,orght-r"".ia itqui te clearly.
l,tayor Hamilton: Did you q.nt to leave in, ard alignment of 64th Street?
counci rman Johnson: yes, and r pointed that out ard you didn't reave it inyour motion.
l'laycr llamilton: Both clark ard r had struck the rast, !*tere it sal. ,,and
reaLignrnent of 54th street to 1I{ 41." Both clark and r had stluck that fromcondition r as 'e[ as, approve of a finar prai ror the need p.op".ivl- rt.."luere the tr^ro itsns that r"re struck frqn cordition 1.
Gary !'lhrren: The motion didn't strike the rast phrase of it. At reast the wayI copied it down because I still had the question in my mina.
llayor llamilton: r'ty motion. rnras it only struck the part deating with the Reedproperry. It did not strike out the realignment.
Counci Iman Cevi.ng: hlt Tom it can,t r.rork un1e.:;s you do strike the last part.
I4ayor Hamilton: That's fine with me. Lo:,rld just as soon cul_de_sac it.Tdnporary or ktratever. I guess lrhat I was sayj.ng a1f along was do wilatever jttakes to rnake the whcre thing work and it ti.ei bick to m ar at some futuredate than tha t ' s r,/ha t ought to be clone .
Councilman Geving: But that.'s the future ard we can,t.-.
Barbara Dacy: i4aybe the city Attorney should advise as to how the counci. r cancrarify the intent ard/or the wording on condi.tion 1 on the prerjminary pratfor the record.
Pat Farrell: You courd have a rnotion to reconsider. you could go back toresolution whatever it is or motion $/ha tever it is ard make . *oiion toreconsider that to clarify the j.ntent of the council. Restate it deleting tielast, whatever those words erding at approval ard deleEi.ng approval of thefinal. plat of t}le Reed property if that's reaIIy wLrat youi iniention l.s.
counci lman Horn: Right, and r made the secord and r fulry i.nEended that thatwas not part of the motion-
Mayor Hami.rton: r thi.nk we need to finish the one that r^e,re on. seeing howr.e have a pubJ.ic hearj rg open ard then rne can go back. Is there anybody elsefrom the pubJ.ic who r's a conment about the vacatj.on of tlest e4rh sireelu anyaddi.tional information?
counci. rman Johnson moved, c-ounci lman ceving seconded to close the publichearlng. AII voted in favor ard motion carried. The public fr..iii,g ,iiclosed.
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Apri J- 25, 1988
councir.man Johnson: r Ehink i.t's prqnature untiL we find out hoe, 54th streetis goirq to be connected up- !& cin't ctose trre peopre's rir"rin"-io rH 41, oryour driveway. rbh, can
-he. vlcate scrnethi.ng untir'we'[now i,o, *II."ioins toreprac-e it? unt the 54th street issue ii resorved, thi.s shourd be tabred.Tttis is a premature application for vacation.
Pat Farrell: orre thing llat you couLd do is, you closed your public hearing.You could move to table that matter until a iater time.
counci rman Boyt: Before rae consider the move to table, r think that tt,e issuefor me is, our intent on. vt't r,,e're going''io do with the connection to TH 4r.To move to vacate t. a?_*l:_T-e1i3!irV..entrarrce ard exit our of tr,"i picture.so tt* question to me is, are re. taking t,at out [Erfl,unently or ir. ,.= t"ri.,git out untir suctr tirre as rhere i" * 6ep*Liity to put it back in? r likethe idea of tying that. particuru. q,r."tiin-Jor., sqr*ti.e soo.r. rf it sesnsappropriate to table it,. r i.ronrt. .rote aqai..,si'th.t. It j;;a ;eems iJ rr= ..sqn: point pretty quick here re have to-deciie r,rtrat kind of connection do reHant ard that's goirg to j.mpact on this gentlqnanrs abitity to J"".i.p tt.tcorner .
I''rayor
'ami
r ton : r see no. reason urhy the deverognent canrE move ahead prior todoirg anv vacarion of 54rh or conins,ry,iti,-ir,r-i..ris"r',""i':"=ri"IlX"n,t n.,.any affect on wi.Et r s hagSninS on U" i.op"ity' to tn north, jusE so long as itgets done and I agree with you.
counci lnan Boyt: r r"rould argue Tom Ehat this is a critical issue Eo the restof the devero'nent - r don't think r"e have to vacate it unti.l scrnewhere downthe road but r sure th'nk r.e have to telr- them rvnat our intenti ons are.
l4ayor flamilton: Sure. ThaE,s exactly what I,m sayj.ng.
Courci.lman Boyt: How can rne do that j.f he tabl.e it?
l,ayor Hamilton: f€,ll table it until as soon as bre can get i.t back on theagenda and work wi th it more clear.l.y. Sornehow it,s got Eo be qDrked out and I9:.1! tl,i!! rre're gojng.to solve anyrf.,ing rreie tonignt. I !"ould rarher table,t so staff can Hork with the co*ni " uni tn"-n -a's and the deveroper Eo cqnep.yith scrnethi.ng rhar's going to *iL."-err-ri* *yi.r,g is r think rhar can be90rng on while the develognenl is going to-p.o"""a or rnrtra tever erse they needto do to continue on with tneir aeieroftn""al- -it doesn,t stop that.
Counci Lnan Boyt: f see tl,o of the neighbors sayi.ng, at }east two of theneighbors rrE $rant a cul_de_sac.
Courrci lman Johnson: The tho property o!^rners.
Councilman Boyt: Idhat I,m very jnterested in is $rhat do the people say whomighE be using 64th as a current entrance/exit off of TH 4r? thit,s another;f;ffi'ff ?'::t.:H Li:tX|.* n"J'to-iill'.-?.,"'.r,-"- Fo;-ihaa";;a;ol"urons ,*
courcilman. Horn: the vaca t j.on of t,IesE 64Eh is a clear indication that Eherntent of the overalr olan was to create a curde-sac and this portion rcurd bevacated ' r think the iequest to requi re that 6;th go out to T, 4r is a totar
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CiEy Council treeE.ing _ alrif 25, t98A
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City Council reering {ep.ir 25, tg[a
Counci lman cevj.ng moved, Ihyor Hamilton seconded to table the request. fortErtial vacation of west 64Lh street for further consideration. -gtt
voteofavor and motion carried -
change in direction from what was being proposed and $rhat these four corditionsI,lE were asked to vote on toni ght ."p..i.ntd. Tb me u,e clear this thing up byaccepting the cul-de-sac as it i=, it,= a frm.nent plat and later v/hen theReel 's develop ard the cowen 's develop ;' ah;t decide that tn.y-runt"io nurr" "proposal come in wlrere it makes sense to run that through, r+e should deal withit at that poinr bur .a g:: point the ..qr;=t"i" to have a cul_de_sac at thatpoint and we donrt ned 64th itr""t uny*o.'. -unA *,rt,, wtry r,e have the requestto vacate it. r berieve, as r said beiore, tr,ut'= tr," ueit .o.pro*iE for thisdevelolment at this pointT. and lre should qo.t..a and proceed that !€y. As amatter of facr, r rhoushr rhar-was the waf '"= r,uJ J""i5J-.;-p;;#-iiitiurry.!E wourd dear with the issue of 64th wrlen further develognent t..t-pr.L.Therefore, r go arong with the partiar .,r"cation. r thinl wnat trratTs-Ie[ingus is that in no pran is there inv utt.*pi-io Lve oath the r.,ay it is today.r don't.see that in any of the prins trrai there-,s an attempt to reave it theway it is today so r think it's appropriate to-vacate it and r don,t think itrsnecessary for thgn to have it to proceed with the project.
Counci rman Geving: r thi.nk it's prsnature at this time to consider thevacation of 64th street and.r'|rl ielr you why. rt,s a very reg.r *.[er. youvacate a street and yourve just given it baci to the propeity 6;";;. --fu,."
not prepared to do that tonight- iE don't know what ir"'i" goi.,g to io on.. ,*have made that decision- tht property owners have it as of-the-msneni tr,ra ,,*vote on it and I think the CounciL v,ould. agree $rith me on that. Itts a verylega1 situatl.on so r,,e're prernarure on thi s] r think ,* ;""d-a; u"v IJ. tin.until r^re \,^rork out exactly what we're going to do with 64th Street u" i.i .=vacati ng it. In fact, the preliminary pfat and the site plan i= .onti.,g"ntupon the vacation of this street. Th;t- is again going baix to the nrmi:Jr rissue that we're going to bri.ng back after 6; " ii ou6. "o r thi-;k lonlght ',.need to table this martsr ard brj.ng it back wi.th some good i.nterljgence of whatwe're going to do with the vacati.on. Ilb can not vacati i.t. r,1I ieLl you, r,ecan not do i.L tonight. That's how r feer about it. I^te should taure irrismatter for further consideration.
IN
i tsn 8(b), thein favor arxl
Counci lman Geving moved, Councilman Horn seconded to reconsj.derpreliminary plat request to create 3 cormercj.al lots. All votedmotion carried.
Councilman C,evJ ng: t"ty feeling is rae should drop ttre last r..Drdage of condition
1: Put a period after ',reasonable approval" ard strj.ke "ard reilignment of64th street to TH 4r't and strike rhe r,ords "approval of a fi.nar ptit for theRe€d property't .
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!oy19i Lman ceving moved, counci rman Horn seconded to amend condition r of thesubdi.vj sion RequesE #g5_7 to read as follows:
1- Approval of the preliminary plat ard site plan shalr be conti ngent uponvacation of 64th Street right-of-\ray, execution of a develogneit contract
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City Courci.l Meet ing -
Counci lman Johnson:safety issue.
with the city of Granhassen, firing a retter of credit with the city ofChanhassen fron a recogni zed financia:. insiitution .rtn.i;. =J--to-a.business in the sl:te 6f Minnesota ..ri ; -i;.*
subject to the City ofCtunhassenrs reasonable approval.
A1l voted in favor except counci lman Johnson htlo otrposed and motion carried.
Councilman Johnson: I think -what you just did, I hope you atterd the funeratsof the people thaE get killed on m Z fu""..-iow they,re taveling fiI 7 moreoften' Trris exit to ''r 4r is a crucial .,.it-t u.,o""- p"opi" iir''fo'on'atrastreet and you just closed it.
Councilman Cevirg: IE understard that.
l4ayor llamilton: CLosed wtrat?
Counci lman Johnson: you.just closed 64th Street. They no longer have accessto rtr 4r. you sav scmeti:ne in the future. - -ii"iti",
f€ne was sornetime in thefuture, it qras rnaiy, many, many years j.n the future. These people are going tohave to contend with TH i wrro now arive tn
-ar-iecause
lrerre ctoiing their onlyaccess and r donrt think that for this "",*r"."i.r deverognent that ue shour.dput our citizens in a safety. predicament ,-r.i[- trr-, drive a **n ,nolu-ina..,=",T:kins gh.r primary ard rhe iingi" "*ii'or. "i"ir,i= residenrial develosnenE Eostate Highway 7 is ridicurous. rhey =i,"ria-L"" ."-;;;;1;';'r!il=i;ff="highway, a ress used hioh,ay otner irran-ti-ai]'-o safer route to get out ontol!:-!j ?l*V:. Then rhey can go back up to ttre-fighrs ard have a red lightprotecting thern frqn those oncoming eastUounJ "u.= u= they try to get on ifthey're trvinq to qo wesrbourxl. d"; t;;-;;.-io.. ,p into oriore r,ane andtried to 9o r,restboirxJ on TH 7? - r - - e r !+ Y
Irayor Hamilton: yes. you can do it.
a(-rr 2s, 1eB8
Irm going to totaLly vote against it. Itrs a prj.me public
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councilnnn Horn: r'd like to ask how this precludes another exit? Alr ere,redoing here is just... -'-" r"'v l.l=.
Counci lman Johnson: you just gave them a cul_de_sac-
councirman Horn: Arr re gave thsn here was the fact that r."e didn't tie thisredeveloFnent to another develognent ;; ;;J;y elses property. hb have notvacated exisEinq 64rh streer. aff ,*;..-i.[il], ia oua of here is sayirg thatthat is not a c\ondi ti on to approve at i =to"J.i"'1.".a.
Oouncilman BoW: I thjnk Clark. in the secorxl lj.ne there where it sayscontingenE upon vacation of G4rh sti""t-.i"i,I_iiconrinsent ui.. tr.,"-""""tron oi oitrr "ir"i'ii.I'.31l xi"5**i*.xliln ,n," ,"trtEt !€ t re going to do.
l'layor Hami lton: Contj ngent r-pon though. It hasnrt been done.
It hasntt been done so the vote as to whatturn upon our tabled rnatter. t :rat f undeisUnd tCouncilman Boyt: That,s rj ghL.happens as far as tne exit wiII
City Council treeting Cep.tr 25, 1988
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you're doi.ng with v*nt you currently struck is you,re simply taki.ng out thereference. you,re not etiminatirg irr.-.uiiitv.
Barbara Dacy: Despite the optj.on, connect or reconnect, you,re going to haveto vacate a IErt of 54th s*;et in order for-the developei to gei iuir'accessonto TTI 41 so the intent of your condition is you're noi nraxin{ " "p..iri"statsnent at this time as to whether or not it should be reconnected. you,restating lhat rou're reserving yo"t opiion -o,rr.tl tne neea cornes back in for apotential p1at. Is that coriectZ
lEyor Hamilton: I think thatrs pretty aceurate.
Barbara Dasy: Ttre intent of the staff report was, again, that will ccrne backin a fairrv simitar E^nner. rhe reccnmeniation bein! tn"t -trr. iiii i"^rra .,oafile the resorution to vacate the street unti.l sqnething is resor-ved. Eitherconnect or reconnection so itrs the cat catchi.ng it,s oin t"ii oi tt" aog o,sonebod.y. in canterbury Downs. rn any case, you;re going t" .Li.q. tL issue in
_ very simiLar format w"ith the sane tl4le of optio.,".
Gary Warren: !{trich means }fnDot will not issue an access permit for thedevelotrment and their new driveway access on Ttt 41 untir irr" city ,r"ut.. ou..'connection.so ru:'re still tied in there.
Mayor Hami,lton: I{e've got to have more information on t}is and crarify scrne ofthis stuff that filtered out.
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aI Pat Farrell: rs the preriminary they're approving is the cur.-de-sac on theReed protErty?
Gary l6rren: The one I had on the screen, the last one, is my i nterpretaEi.onof rdfrat you're approvirg.
Pat Farrell: !'ltrich one?
.Gary !€rren: The short cul-de-sac not on the Reed property.
Barbara Dacy: That's the one that,s not on Ehe Reed proIErty.
:Gary !6rren: Otherwise if thi.s is tle version, than you,re tied in with theplatting. . .
Pat Farrell: Just to crarify, my onry point is you ought to nair down wtrich
.one you're talking about because yourve seen tr,^,o of thsn.
ttayor Hanilton: rE has to be trle first one because !.re're not tying Lhis to theReed property. Vfra've already etiminated thats.
Barbara Dacy: So the Council Js saying this one?
C.ouncilman Gevi ng: Can r.,e call it E(hjbit A or something.
Barbara Dacy: OpEion 3.
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c€y counci.r Meetins - {
Counci lman Johnson: Ihat cul-de-sac tnppens to be on sornebody elses property,not HSZrs prolErty either. That,s on Scirnitz' property and R6ed prop.ty.
I.rayor tlamilton: E\lt a T on there on the HSZ property. There are a lot ofalternatives I think that r€ haven,t even looied at.
courcilnan Bor't: I{hat do r.e gain'wlpn r.re pass this? r $rir1 a&rit to being abit rost- rt sesns to rE as itrough what tire deveroper is trying to do is rnakesTe progress l<nowing what should be the next step the developei is taking andlrnDot is sayirg if you guys donrt vacate 64th Street, the guy- can,t have amajor entrance and exit to his o[Eration. t€'ve tabred that issue. ]ibw re,recoming back ard qe,re sanitizing number 1. What I read, nunber I now sal.s thatthe gentlsnan is eventuarly going to rEed to post a retter of credit for hisdevelogrent arrl that.s about al1.
!,layor tlami lton : Itat r s nor:nEl .
Councilman Bo].t.: yes, but Irm sayirg that doesn't say...
Cour.i lman Johnson: l*.haven't solved anything here tonight unless v€ soLvewhether or not the rearigned G4th street i. goi.,g to reconnect to $I 41 ard atwhat time period does that happen? without iht ,*'.r" r€sted a 1ot of time
i?lr?1.1-_t_!:.1:.j:": culde-sac it rike this. r€ can bur rrm not soins to.
'm saylng Enat prior to vacation of 64tl' street, those people neea ai exit toTlt 41 ard they need a road connecting au the v,,ay from tH 4r to where the ord64th street used to be and that's the position Im taking on ttris prior to anyvacation of the other one.. ve can appiove a prelirninary plat Uut ifre--preliminary prat doesn't have that ciri-de-sac- on it. ti,.' p."r i.i".iv pr.tshows a vacated street but then a cordition of approvat of the pretiminary platis that he vacate t-he str=et and then qe go to the next arguflent. Inie haven,tsolved anlzthing yet.
l'layor trami lton: rf thatrs the case, and if that,s what you rearly believe,then what the city has to do ard *e shour.d do irmediatery is start condsnnationprocess and just serect a prace where the road is going i. go. --e.""i'In
wiratthe developer is saying, they've e,orked $rith the neigrriorho& -uJ-tr,Jv"have
notr'de proqress and so rather than tying thi.s to the -Reed property, the city wirlF":-.o go rhroush a condqnnarion 6r firoperty and f;;; iil'i..6'Hi.".g';.ltut's an option r,,e have to take a look it .t"o arrl r think those are theoptions r^e don'E tnve laid out for us tonight ind that's hitlaE ve need to rookat. Ard I donrt aoree Ehrt r.E haventt acc6mpt i shed unytf1ing - !{";;.:"; al::g-Tr.: r.'raybe. ihere's been a lor of gun Latins u"i--inii-i.'.oi-ui-"u.yrssue to deal with.
Counci Lman Johnson: Could I ask staff a question?
l'rayor Hami.lton: Is it scrnething new that rne haven,t dealt with before?
Courrci lman Johnson: It,s. somethj.ng you brought up. Can the City condsnnlTMy': prop-5rEy ro pur a new sir8ec jn for trrl-pu.p;*';i;ii;;U-:conmercial develognenE to develop jn this area?
Pat Parrell: yes.
r 25, 1988
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(City Councj.l Meeti ng - r\pr il 25, L9B8
I4ayor tlamilton: So now !"e have before us, \de voted to reconsi.der i.tsn l.librre on 8(b) but i tern l of the corditions. i€ have striken approval of thefinal plat of the Reed prolErty arrl at the rast rine, and alignment of G4thStreet to 1H 41.
courci lman Horn: unress r misurxierstarrl sonething, our choices are rre can have54Lh gc through or lte can bave the main entrance to this develo[ment.
Barbara Dacy: 64th real igned.
Gary warren: Ore or the other.
Courcilman Horn: Realigned to go through or?
Gary Warren: 64th L.Lqq feet south.
Councilman Horn: I,I00 feet south of the Reed property or farther south?
Gary Warren: 11100 feet south of the center line of TH 7 v*tich puts you intothe Reed property.
Courci Iman Horn: So if people really wanE ttlat to go through to TH 4I, thenthey donlt !,Jant to approve this cul-.de-sac?
Barbara Dacy: Rrght. thatrs the issue. Either the cul-de-sac or you
reconnect to TH 4l_.
l4ayor Hamilton: And that,s r.ihy Irm saying their option is qE should start
conCsnnatj.on process j.f those are our choj.ces-
Counci lman Boyt: And that's wtry 'a,e tabled that js because $e don,t know so
leE.rs vote on this.
Counci Iman Ceving: I think laerre still alright with condition I.
Councilman Bo).8: Al1 corxlition I says j.s the whole thing faus apart jf $re
donr t vacate 54th Street. Does anyMy have trouble living with that?
Counci Iman Cevj.ng: No, because itts going to happen.
Courrci lman Johnson: Because r,E're really noc sayj ng how they going to
cul-de-sac - - -
TRAPPERS PASS ADDITION, IOCiTED ON I1IE NORTIT AND hEST SIDES OE PLEJ\SAI{I VIET.J
ROAD APPROXIMA'TELY L/4 MILE WEST OE TIWY 1OI, LUNDCREN BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION:
SUBDIVISION OE 32.5 ACRES INTO 34 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS.
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CONSTRUqI A POND WITHIN A CI,ASS B hIETT"\ND
AND DEYELOP WITHIN 2AO FEET.
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{Barbara Dacy: Brjefly, I know the app),icant has subni tted a letter to each ofthe Councj lmernbers objecting to Ehree cordjtjons on the plat. One of thernbeing the Eree rernova I plan. Secondly, i.n regards to the park and Recreation
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City Councj.l Pr-.etj.ng - ttay 3I, 1988
T
PARTIAL V?ICATION OF IIEST 541II STREET.
lralor tlamilton: lErve gone over this a nunber of tine. I guess Barb, hasanlruhirq charryed sirrce last week that ],ou erant to brirg to our attention?
Barbara Ecy: rtrs my urderstarding fran the Reedrs that @er need has signed aIEtition agreeirg to the vacation.
Courrilman Johnson: So no$, r^erre at a ttEee-fifth r s vote.
Roger Knutson: tast tirE there was a concern that tr.o people owned the protErty.
Hale tneV both signed?
lrayor Hamilton: Gary, your brother is onner with 1pu, is that correct?
Roger Knutson: tibw you both signed the tEtition?
Mayor tbmilton: Irch:ding your wife so there,s three of you.
Jan Reed: !€ havenr t actually signed it.
Roger Knutson: rf they sign it and if they onm a nEjority of the lard abuttingthe road to be vacated, then it is...
I'layor Hamilton! l4aldce you could examine the docunent ard telt us r*rat needs tobe done.
Ibger l(nutson: I guess know scrneone needs to sign it.
Barbara Dacy: Ttrey are signing our standard application. you shourd probablywrite on there r€rre going to vacate 64th Street.
Roger Knutson: Frcm poinE to point.
CourEilnan BolrE: Itrs a little sketchy isn't it?
Roger lcrutson: yes. !!hy don.t I draw sqnething r4r right here.
Counci lman Johnson: Of course his brother's rlot here.
l4ayor tlamilton: Barbara, could you revieq, what the current plan is at thispoint in time?
Barbara Dacy: The courci r at rast l4ondayrs meeti ng was talki.ng about one of the
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Mayor Hamilton: !,Ie could have it on our consent.
Counci lman C€ving moved, I4ayor ttamilton seconded to direct the Cj.ty Attorney todraft a resoluEion declaring tlre the OId Asswnption Sqninary as a pr:bl ic heitth
hazard ard a Fublic safety tnzard to be available for the next City Counci Imeeting. In the meantj.rne, directirg staff to move ahead to proceed to do
v*ratever ttEy can to close it dov,n. Alr voted in favor and the nrction carried.
fittr*/ffire
223 )
city Councj.I I'Eeting - May 31, 1988
cul-de- sac options ar*l lit*t rnrculd tnve to happen i.s 64th street r.rourd bevacated frcn ttle southr"rest corner of the Hsz site to trl 41. so this area r^rourdbe vacated - then either cul-de-sacs tere or into the Reed protErty. At therast meetirg the Reed's ard Hsz aplEared to have agresnent lo uuiri a culde-sacinto tfeir pro[Erty. Is that correct?
l4ayor ltamilton: Do you agree with that Gar)?
Cary Reed: yes. Ihey've given us a written agreernent that is txrttj ng tfrecul-de-sac into our property, that ccrnpensate... tb uould rike scnre irea forpording on our prolErty. Barb, that hasn't been approved?
Barbara Dacy: Trle plannirg issr:e is really not part of the council r s reviewtonight. ltre main issue is r*rether or not 54th street should be vacated or !fiataligrnnent it is. other rerated porxlirs issues or drainage issues have to beaddressed at another time.
Gary Reed: If you'd like to see, I drew up an option of coning in off of TH 4Iard scrne of the reasons wtry it doesn't sesn to be working out. Bill wasconcerned that $re looked that over as an optj.on...
Councilman Bo!.t: Ird like one, thank you.
cary Reed: this ruculd be ccrning in off of mt 41 ccming down to here... withoutBen C€wen's coolEration for ttre...it cornes real close to tlle house righthere...so that's one of the reasons.
Councilman C€.Jing: Ho$, many units are there?
Gary Reed: As far as lots go. wi.th the I.Jest 64th street cul-de-sac r get onemore lot pLus r donrt use atr this rard on the road here. so this is not qul teas efficient as what r consider the rand use to be. so that's another reasonthat it doesn't really rrrork ouE for me. The other reason is HSZ won,t put inthe other cul-de-sac . Gr thi s plan . . . Then r^re raould probably have to .tuu trr"sewer in across the easqnent from !{est G4th street. sewer ard water is notavailable up here by the hj ghwa]. and that rnllould be another additional cost. Tbget the sewer from West 64th Street to seven lots, in thjs area here... I guess
my conclusion lias that this cption \,,orked for me. A little better land use. I
cqrE 14) with approximatery a 25q foot fron west 64th street to the erxl of the
cul-de-sac here. Anythj.ng you !,anted to ask?
Counci lman Boyt: What's the Ierqth of tte whole cul-de-sac?
Counci lman Johnson: From Orchard.
Gary Re€d: I sustrEct jt would be close to L,UAT feet.
Counci Lman Johnson: Inlhere are you wi.th the drainage issue?
Gary Reed: tntre' re tryi.rg to nail that dov,,n. i& tEVe put in the holdirg pord fortheir protErty and the mai.n drainage coming off of TH 4l- frorn the school j.s
channeled through our property. It's been a problern with us ard it would gointo the holding pond and is ttris correct now, the runoff is going to go
undergrourd to the park?
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7 City Counci I f4."tfi'g - I4ay 3I,I988
I C.ouncilman Johnson: I{ow does it affect the g lots you, re proposirg?
Gary H: I havent t g.l tea. aow-n the pording site with thqn. possibly put itt4r in this area here wi th. this sharp angte..lthe drainage "o"""- i;6
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propertynolr. At that point now there's a naturil...and frcrn th6re S;= -'* ..
uniergrourd. There's another possibilty but i'm not sure..]
Courrilman Johnson: so yourre not fighting the ponding at this point?
Gary Reed: No.
councilman Johnson: yourre.j,sl trying, you agreed in prirriple to arror^/ thsn topord on your prolErty for their are. i.d- it rits rite...
C;ary Reed: I agreed to a porri of not more thaa LO,6\O square feet. SqRerrfiatsnaller than a minimun sized lot should be sufficient I i;qi;:---
rarry Bro*l: Just a point of clarification, if !€st 64th street is vacated andlft' Reed ccrnes in for a plat, he wilr be reiponsibl. "" ,r"ii i;; ;; ";i" pord insto nnintain a predeverognent runoff rate. Tirerefore trrere wiii-re . ponasqnewhere on his proIErty.
Gary Reed: Just for the blacktopping? rhe water running off the blacktop?
Iarry Brordn: Ard the houses that potentialty ,rould be there.
Courci lman Johnson: Hjs pond could be the same pond?
t€rry Bror,rn: Correct. If it were sized alpropriately, yes.
Gary Reed: Like I say, the major drainage ocmes off the school park'ng lot andthey have no on site pordirg at all. r i""i - iLt they should be responsible fortheir bLacktop arrr shourd piovide ." "it.-poii"g for their runoff because itcqnes dolrn really fasr !l::"?h. there. _ Th"i;;; got a spot next to rhe highr^rayI:-. theyrve gor plenty oi:.rna. rh;;;;e'-o ng to channel their runoffrnto. . -
l4ayor ttamilton: Doesn,L any of that go to the park?
Ciary Reed: Sone of it does go into that ponl to the north...
l.layor Hamilton: t nderneath that drj.veway?
Gary Reed: !'ltrere that porrl is now. -.if ttnt culvert ever o[Ened up, you rculdhave a problern there wj.th our lake.
5filrffi'H:;.rollfn"n erse Gar]? rs that it? Bin, do vou have anv
Counci lman Boyt: , uoo:Tr:!" the _anshrers I got. Barbara, I had a questionfor you. The current limit on cuL_de_sacs "rr:'fro, that affects this?
Barbara Dacy: Ttrere r s is no speci.fic rimit identified in the subdivision
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23U' City Courcil l,leetj.ng - I,lay 31, 1988
ordinance other tlEn length thatrs appropriate for the develognent and intensityvrhich the cur-de-sac serves. The cu1-de-sac that goes into tL nJ-property isapproximatery 900 f*-t frorn orchard. tane. Tlpi cariy staff has used a'1,000 footrure of th.,nb in the urban area. There are aitterent issues that r.re toolc at.
Gary Reed: the density is not too great on that cul-de-sac. rhe lots there areover 60 feet.
Crunci lman Bol.t: you've agreed to maintain ttre val-lnmy frorn the end of 64thStreet out to Tll 4I?
Gary FM: I have agreed to nlake a vralkr*ay through my property.
CounciL:nan Boyt: Itrere-rs a road through there right now ard I thought one ofthe considerations was that you r,ere going to a110w a path r+idth to iqnain.
Gary Reed: A road eassnent you mean?
Barbara Dacy: As a condition of the vacation, if the counci r wishes to reserve atrail easqnent in that vacated area, they have ttre power to do that.
c-ounci lman Boyt: rn ta]king to the neighbors that day, it r"ras my urrJerstandingthat there !'ras concern that there be scnre way for tte xias to coniintre io ..o".that property to the school so r think r,,e sh6u1d maintain a trail ""="no".,t on54th. gz concern with this is, as I have expressed I think .igf,i iio.g, is fdon't know how to dear with long curde-sacs. r would rike to see the-citycouncil wrestle with this issue in ttle future. r think that r,tre need to work atit with the Public safety iEople ard come up wi.th what are r^re going to do withrorg cul-de-sacs. This is a pressure arr the time it seqns to arr5w thqn yetr thi.nk lre alr know that they test the rimits of our ability to provide puLlicsafety protection for the people in the comunity. r donrt know- that now is thetfune to fight that issue. I think Ehe deveJ.oper and the Reeds have worked atthis for quite a whire ard if the neighbors d6n't substantialry object to thisPlan, r gather that they don't from the conversation tr,ut r r,ui wiih thern, r c:rsu=co- t it.
Counci i-nao (;=ving: I Iike to kr:o..u,ncr.,, if .,,e iralt narrorned the potentialculde-sacs to tlle three that are slx)hn on the sketch that you; ve provided. r.rowile can rule out 2 for sure. Ihat's certainly not to be coniidered. At 1east inmy view ard apparently you have now ruled oul nunber l, is that correct? Iguess rrm rnost concerned about the cqrments from citizens rrlho are now usi.ng G4theveryday to get to work frqn TH 41. Do v,e have any live petitions? Do $,e tEVeany recent ccnments that have come in in terms of msnoranduns? t€tters frompeople?
Barbara Dacy:
here.
I have not received any at my offj.ce. f know scrne people are
Councilman Geving: Again, like I said, my major concern t€s those trEople sitlo dolive to the west who are now traverirg eist Lo get to TH 4r. theii c-onments
regard ing our action tonight and vrhat their arternative wirr be if re do vacate64th. t'lhether this i.s a substantial nwber of people wtro 'rould obj ect to thator whether there's a substantial nunber of peopte now will accept Lhiscul-de-sac arrangsnent arxl if they want to use TH 41 they,u have Eo go out onto
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-:.;i:City Council },Ieet ing - May 31, 1988
ltl 7 to get to TH 41. I'd like to hear frcrn those.
T Mayor Hamilton: I'II get to you in just a mj.nute.
Cognci lman Geving: I'd like to hear that i.n our discussion before v,e vote.
WlEttrer or not there are [Eople representing the area to the r.rest or anlbodythat Iives on Oriole tarE that rrnuld want to speak to this issue. I guess myonly feerings is if there is substantial agreer0ent among those people that ttris
r,'ould not be an uni:e hardship, they could live with this, I rculd voteacrordingly to vacate the property. I think lrhat I saw tonight in l,tr. Reed'salternatives ard what he's going to do with his property, you're going to
develop there obviousJ.y and tvre have to move ahead with tlre Hsz develolment and rdonrt want to hold it r4r any longer. Irm pleased roerre at this point.
Councilman Johnson: I met with the citizens too. I stiU tlave, even though I
had a meeting with the neighborhood, the only one part I have problern with even
though I'm in general favor of it, is anergency access and our fire trucks aregoirg to have to use lTI 7. Fortunately our prime responder is going to be
coming frcrn Minnewashta so it's going to be coning down TTt 7 an! ^,ay but 1rou, re
secondary response qnuld be conirg fran the main station or again, the call forextra help frcm Shore$rood and Excelsior, etc. r,,ould be coning down TH 7. Seeingthe primary use rrEy be actually TH 7 now anlmay ard corditioned upon the factthat the deceleration lane to go into the Hsz property is going to extend aIIthe way back to orchard tane to act as an acceleration lane ard be a much saferentranoe onto TH 7 than they presently have onto TH 7. I,m not sure vhetherthat lane's goirq to exterd arr the q,ay to rH 4r or not. r donrt think it wirl.It r,,ould be nice if it \,€nt all the r,{ay to TH 4t and then you r,iouldn' t have toget on lTI 7 at all. cenerarry r r,Durd like to see it connected through...therebecause of the conmercial going on, itrs going to be residenti.ar traffic. rf itwent aII the way through ',e couLd again be lookirg at the front part of thisproperty being built conmercial and wfren r^re lrould have cormercj aI on thisresidential street again. I don,t particularly want to see that happen soweighing everything rm leaning towards this option and they want ti sit inthere ard fight it out ard negotiate for this eassnent. r igree with Dare, r'drike to hear from citizens that are here tonight. !,lhether tfr"y .g."" ,itt .yanalysis or not.
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l4ayor Hamilton: r have just a couple of cqrments. I too have been concernedabout the residents to the west. Hor^rever, the previous developers of this areahad always tied the shopping center in with Ehe traffic going io the 1lest to getinto the center, as r recall, from oriole. IIow we,ve etiminitea uat. t gueisthatrs $ihat the res j.dents wanted and now I'd be surprised if te heard then saythey didn't want that. I think rrm concerned that ihey,re satisfied with theiraccess. Ectranc',e and egress onto TH 7 is going to be adequate for thqn and r'mpleased that the Reedrs have reached agreqnent with ttre d6veloper that,s goingto satisfy their. needs and accomplish rptrat they r,,ant to do. $rnaps =oo.r". th.nthey \'rant to do it but nevertheless get it done when they want to bo sonethirg.Seeing how that's the case I,m aII in favor of this.
Gene Conner, 252r orchard lane: r $rourd like to restate, just to make sure that
I jt doesnrt drop through the cracks because sornetimes ttringi seern to do that,I that anv vacation of 54th Street be absoluteLy tied to a left turn lane beirgI completid before vacati.on on TH 7.
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City Council }4eeting - May 3f, 1988
Resident: Is there any tlpe of an entrance lane? I heard discussion aboutdeceleration ard entrance into the Minnewashta area off of TH 7 but what aboutfrom Minnewashta onto TH 7 during rush hour traffic?
I1ayor Hanilton: There I s a right turn lane out.
Resident: ltrere will be?
!,layor Harnilton: Right.
courcilman Geving: Ib forlow l4) on Jay's cs'rment, in r--erms of the construction
9n _Itl 7, does anybody tEve any knowledge erhen that will take place? Building al-eft turn lane?
Barbara Dacy: that's F,l/st year 2qqT.
Councilman ceving: posE year 2ggT?
Barbara Dacy: the center lane that !,ias identi.fied i.n the TtI 7 study report...
John uban: the highuay deparunent has arready gone out and measured. There,senough roon to stritE a left turn lane in theie- today so it's a matter ofgettirg it dl their schedule for stripirg.
Barbara Dacy: I though you qrere talkj.ng about the center left turn lane all the
vray down IH 7.
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Bob Wagner, 25Il Orchard Lane: I too go TlI 41, turn south and go to the greatcity of chaska to work every morni.ng ard on beharf of the nei.ghiors an<i hivingsat through a lot of meetj.ngs, I really feel this is probably the optimunsolqtion. Erqn the standpoint of talking about ttre tonger cit-de_";" ;;emergency exit, one of the alternatives that had been discussed was an exit backup into the shoppirg center. welI, when you real.ry get down to reality withthat, that \.rourd be in the southr^rest corner r*trere you've got a 2a foot berm,privary overrides this in my opinion. en anergerry exit.].but r rearry bel ievethis is probably tte best sorution for the neighboihood in spite of sde minorconsequences if I have to 90 up to TH 7, which is tr,,Jo blocks out of my way.
Resident: r rive to the rest on }4innewashta arxl r guess rrm a little surprised,r hadnrt heard about this prior to about tro weeks igo. r guess there eras sqflediscussion to the east of us but in our area it r.rasnit discissed until one ofthe neighbors stopped over arl] tord me about it. But r cqrle over here to workeveryday in chan in my office and two things rtm roondering about. frre is theentranc€ onto TH 7 certain hours of the day is very difficult to get on. Thesecond thing, if that park is developed beLind us,-is that traffi6 goin! to beforced onto 1rI 7 wi thout rel-ief or not? Is that a consideration?
I4ayor fiamilton: Etom Herman Field?
Resident: Yes-
I4ayor Hamilton: yes. They v,puld use TH 7 also. I€ don,t anticipate heavy
useage of the pa.rk though. rtrs more of a passive use than it is an active use.
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John Uban: Ard that is, I guess as soon as itrs approved and we go ahead vriththis, we just contact lrnDot arxl say go ahead with that ard wtratev6r tnei.schedule is.
City Council l,leeEing - |,tay 31, I98B
@unci lman @ving: lJo, just on Orchard.
Councilman Geving: What is your corment reJ-ati ng to Ltlat l4r. Conner I s proposedhex2in terms of timing?
Roger lclutson: TtEt should be reflectedsure. . .
in the develotrment contract to make
John uban: That riould be fine. rn fact re ncurd go out and paint it ourservesif re were given permission to do so.
I,tayor llamilton: I thought tlnt r s l*tat l,ou had said previously.
@uncilman Johnson: r donrt think r{nDot has to wait for us to appro/e this.rttDot can go out there ard put that lane in there today because- it's neededtoday.
Gene @nner: With no litu.e irritation Ird like to ask, if itrs not }rours, itrsthe highway deparEnent, if therers roqn there rrcw why the herl didn't tbey do ita long time ago? There's been a lot of bitching about that.
|layor Hamilton: r think you shourd know ererve worked with ltDot over the yearsin attqrpting to inprove TH 7. rhey donrt seem to incrined to sork with us. !Ehavg had many requests arrl studies u.o tt y know the traffic is bad ani treyltonrt do anlthing to help us improve tlre situation
I4ayor Hamil ton: rrm goirg_ to move trErtiar vacation of 54th street using option#3 into the. Reed prolErty with condiii.ons as outlined by the stafi ,itir-tn.fourth cordition that the- lcft_turn rane be pui on t, 7-prior to aoirq -tnis irit can. possibly be accomplished. mr,air ,"a3i-construction. !,rhether it,s
lh1ush your ccrnSrany's eiforts or moot's. a:."o, tnrt !,e reserve a trair.
::=ffi.:J:"i:" vacated G4th srreer so there can be some access for [iJs to set
Barbara Dacy: ol the motion, if you're going to cur-de_sac it then conditions 1and 2 of the staff report wiIl nit appff bui corrlition 3 tnuld-
l'hyor Hamitton: Okay, so lre have I, 2 and 3.
Counci Lman Ceving: IrLl secord the motion.
Roger l(nutson: GIe question. It's going to cost money to cul_de_sac it-
l4ayor tbnilton: The deverotrEr has agreed with the Reeds to accompr ish that. Awritten agreement.
I Mayor llamilton: As the city deverops the devero;xnent contract that shourd be apart of that. Just so the Reeds are aware of it arrl you gu)E are aware of j.t,that the agreexnent needs to be signed by both parties and included.
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234' CiEy Council lEet j ng - l,tay 31, l98B
CounciLman Geving:
separate issue.
It doesntt have anythj.ng to do with the vacation. It,s a
C.ounci lman Johnson: you've got to culde_sac the end o f the street.
Roger l(nutson: The fact that you're vacating it is causirg an exlEnse to incur.Nowrs the best time to make sure everyone knor.rs rnrtro's paying for'ia:- :
lEyor tlamilton:in rrriting.
Thatrs what Mr. Reed had said. That they have agreed to that
Roger Knutson: Ihe vacation is conti ngent r4)on tlem signing a develotrmentcontrast with us.
l,tayor HamiLton: Ttrat would be a fourth corrlition.
Councilman Bol.E: I rrould like to ask that lte modifir the trail- easqnent. Ithink it should be more than an @senent. rherer s a- roadway tier" rro*. r thinkthe trair should be there ard done. rtrs a very roinor cosC to p"ve--urat trair.ltpre are going to be [Eople, chirdren v*ro are loing to vant to'use ttrai.
Gene Conne!: A lot of thsn ride bikes.
!'ayor tlamilton: Do you see any problqn with that? okay. !€rre modifying thethird which was that there be a trail eassrent. llot just a trail eassn'ent butthat a trail be constructed frorn the portion of tEst 64th that's being vacatedtO 11I 4I.
Roger l(nutson: At liho I s expense?
l4ayor Hanilton: The developer r s.
Counci lman Johnson: Who maintains it?
l6yor Hamilton: Tbe City.
courcilman Johnson: r need a review of exactly rtrat r,erre voting on. 1 and 2are out?
lrayor Hamilton: Right. A[4:roval of the vacation of 64th Street with therecofimerdations are, number 3 beccrnes l. 2 is that the left turn rane off ofTH 7 be completed as qr:ickly as possible as soon as the constructi on starts.llhether it,s by the develolEr or by l4nDot.
Courci Lman Johnson: prior to vacation.
lGyor Hamirton: 3 is that the trail be cDnstructed through the property. Arrl4 was as Roger had stated-
Roger lcrutson: the condition be p.rt in tie develolment and that the develolmentcontract be executed before vacation actuaLly takes plac€.
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Cjty Council l,teeting - May 31, 1988
l'layor tianilton: rhat a signed agreement between the Reeds and the developer besigned so everlbody knor.,Js who ' s paying it.
Counci lman Johnson: The trail being built?
I'4ayor lbmilton: Right.
Roger Itlutson: lte developnent contract requires someone to do sonething. !€
Sgrso require an escrow or letter of credit to make sure it gets accanpl ished.
eruncilman Bo).t: I.low we neec to understand what rnrer re getting. !€ are talkingabout a city trail. Right? Itrs 8 feet ,ride. That's our stardard. Just sotherers no confusion. Ihat,s our tlpical trai1.
lhyor tlamil ton moved, @uncilman c€ving seconded to approve the partial vacationof I€st 64th street corditioned r4ron the following:
1. The City AttorrEy's Office shal1 prepare an analysj s of all steps to be
accompl ished prior to filing the vacation resoruiion including irivewayrelocation exlEnses, reconstruction ard relocation p1ans, fill.rg ofappropriate retters of credit or escrow amounts, an- retaining iecessurydrainage ard utility eassnents ard any other i tqns desned nec6ssaq/ by aheCity Attorney's Office. This will be brought back for Council appioval.
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A reft turn rane off of rH 7 be ounpleted prior to the vacation of G4thStreet. Ccmpleted either by ltDot or ttre deveJ-oper.
An I foot trail be constructed by the developer fron the vacated portion of54th Street to $t 4I.
Vacation of 64th Street is conEingent upon a develolment contract beingsigned ard that the develotrment contract spells out that the developer isresponsible for the expense of constructing the culde-sac and consiructionof the trail.
AII voted in favor and the motion carried. Resolution 88-48
zot{rt\E oRDrMrcE AI'TENDMENI ro AMEND sEgrrot\r 2g-263 (G & 7) oF THE crry coDE rpAMn'lD THE toT DEPIH REQUrRm4Hvr FoR INSTALLATToN oF A DoCK AND oNE CAt{oE RANK/DOCK REQUI REMENT.
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Barbara Dacy: I\aro issues, one issue j.s the lot depth requirqlent for abeachlot in order to have a dock. The secord issue is d canoe rack issue.cllrrentry as written you have to have a dock i.n order to have a canoe rack. sothe Planning @mission acted to reconmerrl that the Council amerrl the ordinarreto keep t)7e L66 foot r.ot depth requirenent for a dock but added a phrase thatsaid, inclusive of street right-of-ways. Ard as to tt. canoe rack issue, tt=ymade the language on IEge 7 in the stiff report, reconmend ing that there be nomore than 7 racks trEr beachlot. Those are the tltro issues.
Counci lman Johnson: Did they come up with the nunber 7?
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councilwoman swenson: wourd this come under further subdivision then? Are wetalking about further then? Eurther back? I agree.
Mayor Hamirton moved, councirman Geving seconded that the city arlow thedeveroper, the Mjornes" .to deverop t*,e subdivision without 'th" ;..d;;paving sunset -Trai], putting in an lmproved road with " t.ia 9..".i-"o-.r".".AIl voted in favor ard motion carried.
g_!E!I1__Ile9_E!I199IyIPE r.7r ACRES rrro rwo STNGLE FAMTLY rors, 246r wESr54TH STREET, Ceny nrrp.
City Council l,teeting - october 6; f9g6
Mayor Hamirton: This again is an item that we saw previousry and there wassome misunderstarding hrlren Mr. Red was here, as to exactly what his requestwas and what we, r think probabry were approving. Trre recommendations made byStaff that didn't real1y go too well witfr tfe property.
Gary &ed: The last time_.I was in ras on september 22nd and we requested asimple lct split ard the Citlz @unci1 granted' that but the Staff i.i,o*r""O.Othe contingencies ttraL we didn't consiier to be in line with ,r.,lJ,r" ,unt"o todo ard that vrourd effect some of the other neighbors too. tr. .onli"g.n"iu"were ttrat we rearign the driveway for the exisiing house which r thi# -was
drop@ from the staff's ,report on this meetirg wliich went trrrough a-iearthicket of trees and would damage ttre aesthetilc beauty of trre pi6peity ana tireuseabirity of the driveway. . The secord contingency was that w6 plti.tion toput a road in on the r^rest line of the division inio the park. t6w, we,re notin favor of havirg the road go into ttre park at that poi;t. we think it isnot the right location. rt wourd be a detriment to our prolErty. rf we wantto pay for roads, we would like to put th._rn into the remlini.g -part of theproperty that we plan on pratLing in the future. rhis wourd itio affect theziegrer's lrho o\^m the rots adjacent to the proposed street that they wourdlike to have into the pa.rk ana the zieglerG aie here tonight ana t'ney- are notin favor.of sharing the cost of putting the street i.n eithir so I gue'ss ourpetitioning to put the street in would obligate us for paying for ihe streetard we donrt wish to do that. Alr we want to do is iusi utir-ize some of ourbuildable prolErty that. we bave at this point. We also own the protrErty tothe east of this lot which is approximately probably G acres ard'we'arecurrentry charged for fi.ve sewer stubs on that protErty which are unbuildableat this point until major draioage work is done. the wlter comes fronbasically l.Iest Jr. High schoor and it is in a culvert and dumped into ourproEErty at vrhat would be the southeast corner of our property that comesthrough a creek and then it kind of meanders over the fields;nd down ontowest 64th stre€t where it kird of makes it way across the north corner of theproposed lot split and then it meanders back on it,s way to Little Minnewashtathrough the proposed park area ard so on. At this poini, we can not utirizethose five sewer stubs in that particular IErt of the property because of thedrainage. rn the future r guess we wourd iike to put in i sh6rt road or cur-de-sac depend ing on t].e going property and what happens erith that a1so. wewourd have to work with Eotar property to be developd at that time arrr workthe plat out but at that time then notn of our housies would face u .ui-a._"u"or a street ard r think my wife wrote quite a rerq thy retter ard stre ristd'all. the points and sent one to arr the peopre here so you shourd be famiriarwith our pl-ight here.
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City Counci I t4eeting - October 6, 1986
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Mayor Hamilton: I donrt know if the Council members have any questions. Iguess r rltould just comment that r guess r misunderstood what you requestedlast time certainLy ard r thought r was going out to the prop6rties .to
make adecision on it but after going out arxl rooking at it agai-n ,uith c.ry "rri .1u.,ard we walked arourd the property, I understard more clearly the t1ft ofdevelognent or division that you are trying to put in there-. r trriit yourrequest is very simpJ.e ard straight forward. you want to divide yo* iot, o""the current driveway, not drive through to cut dor,rn arl the trees to the westof your rot and r certainLy disagree with the recommerxlation that oriole beput through as the road to the park. r think we are a long ways from decidingwhere that road is goirg to go ard I see no reason for the- Reds or tbezieglers to IEy for a road- going through. r think we need to as a city and asa c-ouncil to sit down ard look at that ard start looking at the otherprolErties in t},at area that are going to be developed 6ver the next severaryears. r'm not sure what the alignment of the road is going to be to get intoHerman Field. r don't think r have seen the right arteinative yet frori
.-y9iry I have seen up to this point but to exterd Oriole, I tiink ,u"rfa ir"tbe foolish.
Counc i lwcrnan Swenson: I @ncur.
courcilwoman watson: r think ttre Reeds have a very good point in that thetraffic for that Surk is not goirg to come from their-imm&i.t= .r", but fronr'rest of here ard whether those peopre wourd come alr the way down to oriore orif there is a better access to thii some other prace rather than here ardthere is no way that they need oriore paved to subdivide their lot or thezieglers paved so t think for a simple 1ot sprit tt=y should just be atlowedto split the Lot and use the present driveway.
councilman @ving: r don't- understarxl Mr. r,rayor how this got messed q). TheCourcil, -met, they discussed ttris. I'm read ing very clearlf that it waia-pproved by tre council ard then along comes i co.nition oi two. vgiro puttttose conditions on there?
Don Ashworth: rt vras put on in the staff Report. when you reviewed this onSeptember 22rd, that was part of the recrcnmerdation.
Councilman Geving: Blt is hEsnrt IErt of the motion? Is that correct?
Don Ashworth: you approved the i tffi as suhnitted, yes.
Mayor Hamir'ton: you see at that time the Reeds were here and they expJ,ainedwhat tt*y- are attempting to do ard then the corditions to ttem ti,it-.i"nirgh'eren't clear because they had just gotten them and did not make .om*".,I on!5m begause maybe Lhey thought-they-w"re"'t srppose to so we thought we weredoing what they wanted to do with t[-re misunaeriLna:.ng. w" ufriyJ fat ,"were passing exactly what they wanted us to do.
counci lman ceving: r can urderstand that. r can see where that is confusing.we thought Ie rrere doirg y-ou a favor. I,m sorry I erasn't here that night. Iagree that it should be undone arxi not improve 6riote.
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29
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City,Council t4eeting - October 6, Lg86
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Councilman Geving: Welre still playing arourd with that. We donrt know
whether to come in from the west or north.
cary Reed: Can I make a cofiLment. The bulk of the people that are going to
use it are in the Minnewashta Manor area and it seems to me that some quick
access into the park would probably be a better place then on Oriole. I thinkat the present time the park is being used. The kids go in ttrere and play allthe time. It is l<ird of w i.lderness area ard I think that is what our kidsneed. Sometimes we donrt need a groomed, mowed lawn to play on. They canwrestle arourd back there in the r.voods is probably better for them then
hanging some rolEs.
Mayor H,amilton: Gre thing we have discussed briefly cary is the possibilty ofthe Gowerr property developirq ard corn ir}] into the MUSA district if that
develops and having a road off of that somehow is a real possibilj.ty atso.
There are a lot of alternatives.
Ciary Reed: But I think the park is being utilized even though. We use it forcross country skiirg in the \^rinter.
Courc i lwcrnan !,Iatson: A park is not necessarily a ball field and tennis court.
The way our city is developing I think more ard more of our parks should bejust like otrEn land because we are going to forget !,rtlat it looks like.
iIit{iL
Councilwcrnan l{atson: What is ttE procedure for undoing it?
Don Ashworth: r think in this case it is simply a clarification of theprevious motion. rf you took tte position that this was a reconsideration,then you courd not act on it tonight. you r"rould have to wait for two weeksard r donrt think that is the intent of the council. rf you want to simprycaII it clarification.
councilwoman watson moved, councirman Horn seconded to crarify the motion madeon september 22, 1986 to read to approve the rot q>1it request to create a38,750 square foot lot and 35,650 square foot lot using t}rl metes and bourdsdescription for parcer A: ttle nortl 250 feet of tlre wlst 155 feet of Lot c,Bardvrell Acres; ard FErcel B: that part of the erest I55 feet of L.ot G,Bardwerr Acres whidr lies souttr of the north 25a feet of said Lot c, with thefollowing cordition:
I. !!hen the rest of ttre adjacent property belonging to Mr. Reed isdeveloped ard platted, that these two lots be platted along witl: therest of the pro[Erty.
AII voted in favor of the motion ard motion carried.
councirman Horn: r would also like to comment that if this question comes upagain, I rrould like to see some tyIE of an access study done for ttte park.Not just carried on as part of the subdivision.
LE
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APPLICANT :
ADDRESS /2
(l
LAND DEVELOPHENT APPLICATION
CITY OF CEANEASSEIT
590 Coulter Drive
Chanhassea, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
4
OhINER :
ADDRESS
^ " 4 dq"- 5rJ3 /
I
Zip Code
TELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQUEST:
337-fu/o
Zoning Oistrict Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Anenalment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
PROJECT NAME
REOUESTED LAND
PRESENT ZONING
USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQUESTED ZONING
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch Plan
_ Preliminary plan
_ Final Plan
Subdivi sion
- \Platting_ Metes and Bounds
Street/Easement Vacation
Wetlands Permit
"/zip CodE
TELEPHONE
P""
USES PROPOSED
SIZE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST
JUN L: l9BB
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary)
CITY OF CHANF,ASSeTtT
{
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
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City of Ct.rrt,."".f
Land Development AoolicationPage 2
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FT L ING INS TRUCT ION S:
Signed By
This application must be completed in fulr and be typewritten orclearly printed and must ue iccomf"ni"a-oy a1r information andplans required bv aoplicabte aiay'o;;i;"nce provisions. Beforefiling this appl-icaiion, you shoirld confer with the city plannerto determine the soesi fic- orainin"" iia'-pr""edura1 requirementsapplicable to your application
1il6
App 1ic Dat e
Dat e
L
The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has beeni::::ii:;: to make this application ioi-'th"-;.;p;;ay;;.;i;"
t(igned By
This Application wi 11Board of Ad j us tmen tsmeeting.
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1@ hDate Application Received [y -.s- {3
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City Receipt No. 237a ?
ons ideredppeals at
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FTIING CERTIFICATION
The undersiined reoresentative of the applieant hereby certifiesthat he is faniliai with the ;.;;";;;"i'requr.remenrs of at1applicable City Ordinances.
-_--Application Fee paid
CITY OF
EHfiNH[SSEI[
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: JuIy 20, l9g8
C.C. DATE: Aug. 3, L988
CASE NO: 88-18 SOB
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
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PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
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APPLICANT:----Z-tt.p--Ltt --.-
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775 West 96th Street
to Subdivide 76.5 Acres Into
and a 66.5 Acre Parcel
Preliminary Plata 10 Acre Parcel
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
A-2; Agricultural Estate
76.5 acres
A-2i
A-2i
A-2i
A-2i
vacant
s ingle
s ingle
vacan t
f ami 1y
family and open space
agr i cultural
WATER AND SEWER:Water and sewer is not available.
PEYSICAL CHARAC.:Open area agricultural.
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Agricultural
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Tim and Dar,rne Erhart
775 West 96th Street
Chanhassen, I"lN 553I7
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Erhart Subdivi s ionJuly 20, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
The applicant is proposing to subdivideparcel. The remaining 66.5 acre parcelnot proposed to be developed.
I0 acres from a 76.5 acrewill remain as is and is
Parcel A meets all of the requirements of t.he rural lot regula-tions and of the A-2 District. Parcel B also meets the minimumrequirements of the rural lot regulations and the A-2 District.As the preliminary plat is now, both parcel A and B wifl becomeplatted lots. It was the intent of the applicant to only pfatParcel A and leave Parcel B unplatted. The plat should be
amended to show Parcel A and maintain the remaining acreage asmetes and bounds description.a
The applicant had soil borings performed on ParceI B but twoapproved septic sites have not been confirmed. Since the pro-perty is being split Parcel B will have a separate lega1 descrip-tion and could be sold and developed as a single family Iot.Therefore, staff is reco(unenaling that the applicant provide thenecessary informa!ion locating trro approved septic sites onParcel B.
Streets
The Subdivision Ortlinance requires platting of any 1ot in therural area which cannot be further subdivided.
Rural 1ot regulations requires a minimum 1ot area of 2.5 acresand a maximum density of I unit per 10 acres.
Each created Iot must provide tr,ro acceptable septic sites.
REFEB&AL AGENCIEq
Public Safety Director Attachment #2
Asst. City Engineer Attachment *3
ANALYSIS
In the attached memo, the Assistant City Engineer addressesstreet right-of-way. The Assistant City Engineer is requesting a30 foot roadway easement along tshe south boundary of the subjectsite. The land south of the subject site is already platted(Pioneer Hil1s) or cannot be subdivided. Therefore, it wiII oedifficult to obtain the remaining 30 foot easement necessary for ast.reet. Staff is recommending that the applicant provide a 30foot roadway easement to the Worm property and a 50 foot roailway
easement wesL of the Worm property (Attachment #4).
Erhart Subdivis ion
JuIy 20, 1988
Page 3
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision
Reguest #88-18 as shown on the plat stamped "Received June 30,
1988" and subject to the following condition:
1. Prior to final plat approval , it shall be shown that Parcel B
has two acceptable septic sites."
The applicant sha11 provide a 30 foot roadway easement alongthe southerly boundary of the subject site Eo the westerly
boundary of the worm property and a 60 foot road$ray easement
along the southerly boundary of the subject site h,est of the
Worm property.
ATTACHMENTS
2
1
2
3
4
5
6
Excerpt from City Code.
Memo from Pub1ic Safety Director dated July
Memo from Asst. City Engineer dated July 13,
Plan showing proposed roadway easement.
Application.Preliminary plat stamped "Received June 30,
5, 1988.
r988.
1988".
Notice requirement and procedures set forth in this chapter in excess of those required bystate law are directory. Fa ure to compry with such procedures w r not invalidate theproceedings.
(Ord. No. 33-D, $ 4.3, 2-25-85)
Sec. l&37. Exemption.
(a) The city clerk shan certify that the folrowing conveyances are exempt from platting ifthe new and residual parcers meet the minimum require.ents of the zoning ordinance for abuildable lot and are on an existing public street. The appiicant sha, furnish the city a surweyprepared and signed by a registered land surveyor for review:
(1) Dividing a platted lot to a<ld a portion of the lot to an abutting lot;
' (2) Dividing a metes and bounds parcel to add a portion of the parcel to an abuttingparcei;
(3) In areas outside the Metropolitan counc 's 1990 urban service area, the separation
of a parcel into two (2) or three (B) parcels if all resulting parcels are capable of beingfurther subdivided into buildable lots under the zoning ordinance.
(b) The city council may approve a metes and bounds subdivision of a platted lot into two(2) lots in areas inside the Metropolitan counc,'s 1990 urban service area if both resultinglots meet the minimu::,r requirements of the zoning ordinance and abut an exlsting publicstreet' To the extent possible, the new boundary line shalr be paralrel to a previousty existirrglot line' The city council shal hord a pubric hearing on the proposed subdivision after notice ofthe date, time, place and purpose of the hearing has beerr published once in the oflicialnewspaper, and a proposed development notification sign has been erected on the subjectproperty by the applicant, both at least ten (10) days before the date ofhearing. Written noticeshall also be mailed by the city to the applicant and a owners of record rvithin five hun&ed(500) feet of the outer boundaries of the subdivision. Failure to post a proposed deveropmentnotification sign or to give notice or defects in the notice shall not affect the validity of theproceedings' At least three (3) rveeks prior to the hearing the applicant shall submit to thecity:
$ 18-36 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
DIVISION 2. PLATTING PROCEDURES
Sec. l&36. Generally.
(1) A survey (prepared and signed by a registered land surveyor);
(2) A list ofproperty owners within five hundred (500) feet ofthe boundaries ofthe parcel
to be subdivided;
(3) Except as waived by the city, all information required for plats.
(Ord. No. 33-D, $ 4.2, 2-25-85)
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CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
ME MORAND UM
TO:
EROM:
SUBJ:
DATE:
I have revieered the above plan from a public safetyperspective and at this time I have no input. It appears
that three (3) dead end streets will be available to servicethis piece of property. However, a change in present
accessibility is not indicated and therefore, public safety
response erilI not be significantly altered if at all.
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O, BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Barb Dacy, Planning Di rector
Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Director
Planni.ng Case t88-18 SUB
July 5, 1988
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Enginee
DATE: July 13, 1988
.d!
SUBJ: Preliminary Plat Review for 775 West 96th Street
Planning FiIe No. 88-18 SUB, Tim Erhart
This 76.5 acre site is located at the westerly end of WestStreet and is composed. of a rolling topography with maturetation scattered throughout the site.
Sanitary Sewer
96th
veg e-
lnrs
Area
site is located
(i4USA) and does
outside of the Ivletropolitan Urban Service
not have access to municipal sanitary sevser.
watermain
Acce ss
The existing resiclence receives access from a long driveway which
extends to West 96th Street. If Outlot B is ever subdivided,
access should be acquired from Flintlock Trail or Homestead Lane.
On July 6, l-987, the City Council approved the final plat for the
adjoining Jeurissen subdivision contingent upon Jeurissen dedi-
cating to the City a 3O-foot roadway easement along its north
bound.ary. This easement woultl help facilitate the extension of
west 96th Street to the west should the need occur (refer to
Attachment 1). It is likewise recornmended that a 30-foot roadway
easement also be dedicated to the City along the southerly boun-
dary of the Erhart plat to facititate the future extension of
west 96th Street.
Grading and Drainage
The plans do not propose any grading or drainage changes to the
site.
Mr:nicipal water service is not available to the site. The
existing residence is presently served frorr a private weIl .
Planning Commi ssion
JuIy 13, 1988
Page 2
It is therefore recommendetl that the preliminary plat for theErhardt Subdivision dated "Received June 11 , I988" be approved
upon the following condit ions:
1 The applicant sha11 provioe the City rrith a roadway easementalong the southerly 30 feet of the entire Erhardt plat priorto final plat approval.
Att achment
I Location Map of Jeurissen Subdivision.
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I,AND DEVEEOPT{EN T APPLICATION
CITY OF CEANE.ASSBI
690 coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
APPLICANT :
ADDRESS
OWNER:'-,r (
Ja- r-ADDRESS -7't u96 1\ sl
C L, ,... L o ", z- tia ^ :':^ll )Zip Code
TELEPHONE (Daytime I tbu - t!/ !\
REQT'EST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amenclment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
NA.t'4E
TELEPHONE WJ: 1.)-'2g
Planned Unit Development
Zip Code
\.. Platting
Metes and
Street/Easement
Wetlands Permit
Bounds
Vacat i on
PROJECT
PRES ENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REOI]ESTED LAND USE
PRESENT ZONING
PLAN DESIGNATION
A-r
A
REQUESTED ZONING A-r
,A<
SIZE OF PROPERTY q.ci"1 4
LOCATION
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary)
Trv i-'lutra(
Sketch PlanPreliminary PlanFinal Plan
USES PROPOSED
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST
cir
Lan
Pag
f Chanhassen
evelopment Application
FILING rNS TRU CT IONS :
FILING CERT T FICATION:
applicable Cit
llr a 5l U\Jyo
dDe2
This application must be completed in ful1 and be typewrit.ten orclearly printed and must U. i..o.luii.i-Uy aL1 information andprans required bv appr_icaiie-;;;;t;;:;.nce provisions. Before.rrtrng this aoplicarion, you shoutd "oni., with the city plannerto determine i'e so"ciri.'"iaiili;; ;;;';r."edura1 requiremenrsapplicabre to your appricaiiJi-gr's! quq I
Ihe undersilned rthat he is fami li epresentative of the applicant hereby certifies3I.yi!!_!h" procedurar ;"q;i;;.;;;""lr"Ii:.rornances -
I
Signed By
Signed By
App t car
The undersigned hereby_ certi f ies . that the applieant has been:::::ii:;: to make this applic"ii."-i"i'.the property herein
t/,Dat e
DateFee Oerne r
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Date Application Rece i ved
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IApplication Fee paid C
City Receipa *o./)
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This Appl-ication wi I.LBoard of Adj ustmen Ls
nee ti ng .
be cons ideredand Appeals at by thetheir Planning Cornmi ss ionl
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P.C. DATE: July 20, 1988
C.C. DATE: Aug. 8, 1988
CASE NO: 88-12 CUP
Prepared by: Olsen/v
EH[I[H[SSTN
STAFF REPORT
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PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:- .7/tl/ (?-
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Square Foot Pylon
615 FIyin9 Cloud Drive
Conditional Use Permit for anSign for SuperAmerica on Hr4ry.
80
212
Roman Mueller
1240 West 98th Street
Bloornington, MN 55431
SuperAmerica,'Sfation,'
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PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
A-2, Agricultural Estates
N-
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BF;cold storage facility (under const. )
flood plain and open space
vacant and motel
vacant drive- in
A-2;
A-2 i
A-2;
WATER AND SEWER:Not avai lable .
PEYSICA], CHARAC. :The site is leve1 on the north side.
Parks and Open Space
CITY OF
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SuperAmerica CUPJuly 20, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 20-1303 permits anof a conditional use permitDistricts.
square foot pylon sign upon receiptthe Eighway and General Business
80
in
The applicant is proposing to update the SuperAmerica signs withthe new SuperAmerica 1ogo. The proposeil sign is 80 square feetin size. The applicant first applied for a variance to the signordinance which requires non-conforming signs to meet the signrequirements of the most restrictive district rvhere that use ispermitted. The permitted size for a pylon sign is 64 square feet
and 80 square feet hrith a conditional use permit.
The City Council felt that it was not necessary for the applicantto receive a variance to the 64 square foot size of pylon signrequirement but rather could pursue a conditional use permit foran 80 square foot sign. Council then dj.rected the applicant towithdraw the variance request antl pursue the conditional use per-mit.
BACKGROUND
ANALYS I S
Staff has reviewed the size of existing pylon signs for similaruses on highways rgithin Chanhassen and surrounding communities
and has found that an 80 square foot pylon sign is consistentlvith what exists for similar uses on highways. The proposed signwill be located in the same l-ocation as the existing sign andwill have a maximum height of 20 feet. The location, height andsize of the sign will not block visibility from Hwy. 212 from
e i. ther direction.
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recor,rmends the Planning Commission adopt thefollowing motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Conditional Use
Permit Request #88-12 for an 80 square foot pylon sign for
SuperAmerica on Highr,ray 212 with the following conditions:
1
2
The height of the sign cannot exceed 20 feet.
The new sign must beexisting sign.
locaEed in the exact location of the
ATTACHMENTS
ExcerpE from City Code.City Council minutes dated June 13 and June 27, 1988.
Memo from staff to City Council.
1
2
3
colrector street as designated as such in this chapter. such sign sha, be located so asnot to conllict with trallic visibility or street maintenance operations, and sha, besecurely anchored to the ground.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. fX, $ S, 12.15€6)
Sec. 2G1302. Neighborhood business and institutional districts.
The following sigas shall be allowed by permit in any OI or B-l District:(l) Ground low prohle business sigas. One (1) ground low profile business or institu-tional sign Dot exceeding twenty.four (24) square feet of sign display area shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per tot. Suchsign shall be located at least ten (10) feet from any property liae and shall not exceedfive (5) feet in height.
(2) Wall business sign. one (1) wa, business sign sha, be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a buildiig. rhe total of aI wall .orot"i "ifrdisplay area shall not exceed ten G0) percent of the total area of each building wallupon which the signs are mounted, but no individual business sign sha, e1*twe.ty-four (24) square feet in sign dispray area. A wa, business ,ig,, "h"tt ,rot b"mounted upon the walr ofany building which faces any adjoining residentiar districtwithout an intervening public street.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ Z, 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G1303. Ilighway aad general business dis[1i6ls.
The following signs shall be allowed by permit in any BH, BG, or BF District:
(1) Ground low profrle business signs. One (1) ground low profile business sigrr shall bep€rmitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such sigas per lot. Suchsigns shall not exceed eig-hty (g0) square feet in sign display area nor be gre.te. thaneight (8) feet in height. such sigas sha, be rocaied at least t€n <rol r*t r""- ""vproperty line. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (Z) freestanding businesssigns, whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs.
$ 20-1301
(2)
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
C
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folon business sign. One (l) pylon business sign, not exceeding sixty-four (64) squarefeet in sign display area, shall be permitted per lot. e pyion U,_r"ir"". sign great€rthan sixty-four (64) square feet, brrt equar to or ress tt un "igiiy raor square feet, maybe permitted after securing a conditional use permit. S.,.i"igrr" shall be located at
l"*1 "l
(10) feet from any property line, and shall not exceed twenty (20) feet inheight. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding business signs,whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs.
wall business signs' one (1) walr business sig-n shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The tot'ai oiatt wall mounted signdisplay area shall not exceed fifteen (t5) perceit of the total area of the building wallupon which the signs are mounted. No individual business sig-n shall exceed eighty(80) sqqa.u feet in sign display area. A wall business sigrl may be mounted upon anywall of a principal building.5_
(3)
1268
City Courcil lr4eeting - June 13, 1988
t half of the assesgnents.
All voted in favor ard the motion carried.
SIGN PERMIT \ARIAT.ICE REQUEST 10 SrcTIOI.I 2A-1266 lto CONSTRUCT AN 80 SQUARE FOOTPYLON srcN, 615 FLYTNG clouD DRrvE, St PBAMERICA srATroN, RotaN MUELiER.
councilman Boyt.: r tbought that the idea of arlowirg a non-conformance,grardfathering in, was that -utEn it vJas changed, it rrcurd be changed io'"t,nprywith the ordinance. rtre -ordinance says 64 {uare feet arn suaaeniy-rr.; r" *yi.gr+elr, but thatts okay ani any changes *"e cerGinly v,ant to protect'ttre person at78 square feet. r€ don'!t- $rant to charge the ordinance or G want to gei thesigns in agreqflent with ttre ordinance. Gn scmebody help nre out witl-tlaii
Irayor Hatnilton: t6)te you can help ne out with that. I'm not sure Iurderstand .
Councilman Bol.t: Maybe I confused you on the iten.
sigrn was grardfathered in. It was a non-conformance.
l.ty urderstarding is this
Right?
the 78 square footJo Ann Olsen: l,Io, it was approved by a sign cfimittee?sign? That was apgrroved by tle City.
Councilman Boyt.: When it e,as installed but wten rte wrote-l wasnrt the max jmun then 64? yes, salE Barbara. Alright,
I :9nforrnance that was grandfathered in and now it's ctrningi_ that point I v,ould think that lre r,lould want to move it iiordinarre. Either that or the ordinance is wrong.
up the sign ordinance,
so this was a non-
up for a change and at
conformance with the
,
l'layor Hamilton: That's wtry hers askirg for a variance because he canrt get inconformance.
Courci lman Horn: I{try didnrt he ask that the ordinance be changed?
Mayor Hamirton: r think wheo you get to signs, if r,re did that we'd changing theordinance every other week to conform. Try to get everlbody r s sign inconfornance. r think if you read tt," Minutes oi ttre ptanning conmissionneeting, therers a stardard size sign for that particular br:iiness and that.sarl he's tryirg to do is put up the snarlest one that ttrey make. consequentryhe needs to ask for a variance because he canrt meet our specific requi ianent.
oouncilman Boyt: They did T9r]tion that they do make those signs where theycanrt have thsn 80 feet or l2g f*t, they do make a snarrer v6rsion of thatsign. Ttrey have to special make it but it's availabre to thsn. To nre it soun:slike the ordinance needs to be rooked at. rf this person is saying itrs nota[propriate for his business, than maybe itrs not appropriate f-or [he otherbusinesses.
I4ayor Hamirton: you're probably right. Especialry based on the ofiments madeby the applicant tt*t the size of their signi in taien frorn an average ofcqmunities arourd the areEr or wherever Ehey dear with ard that's hoi the maketheir stardard size sign. Isn't that !,,hat ahe co(ment was that you made?-
4L
,ftigy counci 1 lbeting - June 13,1988
Rcrnan lfuerler: yes, that's correct. rrm Rqnan ltrell-er with superAnerica. qlit, when I lias going through the staff report, I'd also like to point out thatin your ordinance, the most restricted for that area is carled o-ut, states thattherers-also.a 80 foot grourd sign avairable to us in addition to ihe 64 squarefoot pylon sign. we're only asking for the 80 square foot on the pyLon sign. logrourd sign ard yes, this is based on frcrn arourd the country of wGt size-signsue generally deal with.
Counci lman Boyt: I don't urderstand wLry this is a variance request. Ib me itlooks like the ordinance covers it under a corditional use request. Itrs g0
feet ard as r read the ordinance it said frcrn 64 to go was a Corditional. use.
Jo Ann Olsen: The reason re did that is because the ordinance fornon<nforming signs states that it has to meet tlle district with the nrost
IHmitted. use ard tlre pemitted use is 64 square feet. Ihat's !*!y we're goingfor a variance because tie [Ermitted use is for a 64 square foot iign versushaving to put thqn through a corditional use perrnit.
Barbara Dacy: the most restrictive rules apply arxl thatis the 64 square feet.
l,layor Hamilton: I guess I agree with that. If it can't be a corditional use.If the. ordinance says you can have a corditional use between 64 and g0, wtryisn't it a corditional use?
Rqnan l'rueller: rrm afraid r don't have an answer directly to your conment but rdo have a statanent about what r,e are required as a petroleun company retailinggasoline on the street. I€ have to post our prices lo the pr:bric. ie are thenhardicapped in our sigrn sizes because rrre have to put that dov,,n berow ard in that80 square foot is our pricing as required by law. ...is the issue but that is
one of the reasons that serv ic€ statioos have 1-arger signs on than.
Jo Ann olsen: Again, because he went with the most restrictive permitted size.
l,layor lhnilton: Then r,,e need to charge our ordinance I guess. As Bill says, rde
need to look at doing scne adjusting there.
Oouncilman Bo)&: That's all I have. I Iike the idea that itts 2g feet high ardas far as that's within our ordinance without any changes.
Counci lman Horn: Does staff have any knohrledge of what other oil company signsare? In other r.icrds, $rhatrs t}e square footage on Standard and Holiday? It
segns kird of stranle if there's only one gas corpany out there that has signsthat are larger than anybody elses.
Barbara Dacy: As far as the ordinance is concerned, I really rernqnber a lot ofdiscussim with the Council that one week that rte went through the zoningordinarre ard we really looked at the sign size issue for 64 square feet and theCourrcil's determination was if itrs goirg to b= larger than th;t, than rreestablish the conditionar use tErmit process. r think roe did a fair arcunt ofstudy to ttat through tte zoning ord inance.
courci lman Horn: r guess I dontt. have a probl-ern with larger signs but to me thereason seems kird of flakey. Because our conlEny doesnrt build a sign thatsize. Ird Iike to hear the answer.
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42
i_!a)City Courri I !,reeting - June 13, I9g8
The 80 ard the 130 square foot signs. Those are our trND
courrci lman Horn: I'!y question was your cqntEny relative to standard and theHoliday. t?ey have the sare restrictions.
Rcman ltreller: Yes, they do. I donrt know r.rtrat ttreir sign sizes are. Ihonestly don't. r only deal -r.rlffi 6rrr sig6s. r krow in many locations theyr relarger. t4any locations they're gl|aller. lgain, depeniing on the 1ocalordinances as in this situation.
counci lman tlcrn: To me that's a key issue to making a decision on this. lttatdo r.e alrow other simirar businesses in town? rf r,e don't krow that, how can wehave any data to base this decision?
l'layor Hamilton ! rtrat r s wtry r think Birrrs saying our ordinance needs to bereviewed- because $re ap[Erently have the wrorg- siie signs. I€ need to go out tothe peopre who make signs ard ask ttrqn !,trat the starriird is. r don,t lrrinx ,*did that last time.
Barbara Dacy: the anoco and the Hor iday stations had theirrs instarred prior tothe ordinance. rf you $rant to tabre the itsn untir kE) can research, that'sfine.
ltayor fhrnilton: I donrt know wtry rre should have to do that.
councilman Gevirg: Rcrnan, is your sign a standard go square feet? rs that r,rhatthe cqnpany makes for you to go out arral trrrt up?-T
L Rqnan ltueller :
standard sizes.
@unci lman ceving: site location down there, it seems rike you could see a signfor quite a ways so r don't think the 2a f*.t wourd bother G. r have no otheic.oments.
counci lman Johnson: r think if you drop that bottom thj.rd of the advertisingsection off where you're advertising your rnstant cash or if r,re charged to wiereqre arl.or,Ed 54 square fooE of named rogo sign arxj for gas stations allow so manysquare foot of pricing information, that that seqns reasonable. As I read ardread ard reread this Section 2g-126q, Ilon-conforming uses, I don't see hltry rrEcan't issue a corditional use permit here. rt satE it r,.ould then be conforming
43
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Courrcilnnn Geving: so l3g is your rExt size?
Iunan M.reller: ltEtis right.
Counci funan @ving: lbthing lorrer than that?
Ranan ltueller: llothirg loler.
OourEilnan Geving: !ftrat would the 4 foot reduction do to you if *e drop theheight fron 24 to 2g fesE?
htlan uEller: !b rEve no problqn with dropping the height. wa rDutd rctuallyprefer that.
4
Ci ty Courci I ltaeting - June 13, l98g
Roger Knutson:
size?
ltp B:siness Highr,ray District.
Ard in the Business Highvay District, rfiat can you have for sign
to the size provisions of Ehe most restrictive zoning district. rhe signingprovisions of the most restrictive zonirg district airor,,s a corxlitionar usetrErmit up to 80 square feet. can r.e issue a conditionar ,"" p";ii-.; if thiswas the most restrictive zoning district? Irm confused.
!4ayor thnirton: perhaps re can have Roger clarify that seeing you don't ber ieve$rhat the staff has to say. Roger rould you pfease cfarify tniti
Roger.I(nutson: r guess r have to ask a question of Barb? what is the mostrestrictive zonirg district in which the use is allowed ard h'hat "ig;;r.allored?
L
Barbara Dacy:
Jo Ann orsen: ltreyr re urder the same one, the BG ard the BH and that rDuld be64 square feet or 80 square feet in corditional use.
Barbara Dacy: Section 2A-13A3.
Roger lcrutson: r think itrs not r00E clear but r would suggest that perhaps rtrould have said get a corditional use peEnit.
Barbara Dacy: rf the councir obviously feers that the variance is notatrpropriate ard wanted to. have the appl icant withdraw the variane application,he rrculd have to readvertise ard stait over with the conditional use'[rmit ifyou feel more ccmfortable grantirg a corditional use permit versus a irariance.It just delays t}le applicant.
@urci lnan Boyt.: r'd rike to make a motion. r move that re tabre this matter.You,have. an existing sigrn. r think it must be functionirg ard r'd like to seeus do this properly. rb do that rre need more information as crark and othershave pointed out.
Courri lrnan tlcrn: I secorrl that.
@unci Iman Bo).t moved, C-ounci lman Horn secorxled to table the sign permitvariance request to section 20-1260 to construct an g0 square foot- sign for thesulErarcrica station at 615 Frying cloud Drive. erl vot& in favor ufo t}"motion carried.
t
l'tayor t anilton: r hoIE this isn't going to cause )rou any probrem. rt'trs notttre motion r rpuld have preferred to have seen but you can- furrction tenporarirytrith the sign you have.
Rcrnan ltreller: Is there a tine on this studf
Councilman Bo!rt.: Sure, the next Courril meeting.
Rqnan ltrcller: Are you going to canvas onry service stations in this area or E
44
z)' ' City @unci I tleeting - June 13 , 1988
r are you going to look at thqn more...
l4ayor Hamilton: I think our question is npre internal right no$, as to whetherit should be a conlitional use or a variance. f don't think at thi.s point
lre're going to start talking to sign manufacturers to find out what standardsizes of signs are. That's a bigger problan !€ need to deal with down the road.
Courci lman Johnson: Drring discussions I didn't get a chance to ask a cor4)Iequestions.
l,tayor llamilton: Save tlsn for next tiIIE. I€rre going to see it again.
councilman Johnson: rf te arready knor€ wtrat the questions are then herrr havettp ansvers? i{hat is the clst to mke it 64 square feet?
Rcrnan ltueller: A 64 square foot sign blculd cost flE abr/u| 9510AA.A6.
Courcilman [brn: As oFposed to?
Rcman UreIIer: ltp one I have novr? I by I0, 80 square feet? pEarEnufactured
for about $srgqg.go. Ilavirg one custcmed made or p:rchasirg ore prenade isabout tlE sanE anpunt. If r r,ras to buy the 64 square foot mss pioduced, tcould probably buy it for about $3.56A.0q.
Courcilnan Horn: So the cost vpuld be the sanre?
Rcrnan Mueller: About the sane cost.
Courrcilman Johnson: So vtrere t s the hardship for a variance?
Councilman Boyt: Did you say you already have tte g0 square foot?
Rcman ltreller: r already. own the 80 square foot signs bought tiern in burk byour stores. So actually it rrculd cost me gl:g,ggg.gg.
Courci lran Geving: I think it r,rould be fair to ansvrer lrour question Rcxnan. you
ask for a date. t€t's say the first meetirg in July. ttrat gives us a month.
Counci lman Bo!t: Do r^te need that?
l,tayor Hamilton: Itlat houldnrt be until JuIy llth. It could be on as early asthe 27th of June I vDuld think if you could work this out.
Barbara Dacy: yes r{e courd place it on the agenda on June 27th. rf the councirat that meetirg determines that a corditional use permit is necessary, werretalking not unlil August until he can get beard by.
Mayor Hamilton: It vlould sesn to me that you and Roger ard the ones who aregoing to determin whether it's going to have to be a variance or a conditionaruse. I don't think thatts up to us to determine. yourre the one whors going torecomerd to us htrich one r€ | re going to go with.
Barbara Dacy: Okay, my reconmerdation still stards as a variance.
45
I
Mayor Hamirton: rhere's_ scrne confusion on that issue and thatrs what r,^,e, retlyirq to crarify r think. That's the ..."on ior the tablirg r believe.
courcilman *rrn: thatrs.part of it. ,?re other tErt 's finding out urrat currentsign sizes r're have in thil city because it-r*;i" way out of rine than e,e shouldchange our ordinance.
Courci lman Johnson: Runan., the g0
_
square foot sign you currently have, is therea possibility that sqne other statiori, i. ttre
-sune
sign used nationwide? r meanyou're not- going to eat that sign u"a'r*t r.tlt sit in the r,rarehouse. r.msure yourll fird use for it.
Rsnan ltueller: rrm dohin to three stores in the state of [innesota right nosr.Tt,.trs it. this is one of tl*n. rte othei or= ," ,n l,rankato ard the other orEis downtolen St. paul.
courcilman Johnson: courd they use an g0 square foot sigrn in either of those?
Rcman lnreller: st paul r have three fases on tr.ro sides for a total 6 faces arrleach one of them is rrell .ver g0 square feet. ltre other one is in l,tankato andthat,s setrirg a L6 by 13 sign. Riiht n;-;;,;; just soiDg t" ".i:ir!i'ILpracsrcnr of ir with rhe citt. oouia r """ iti- Fot.r,[i"riy r;.';,a,"t ti,,=I donit know.
PT,ANNM UNIT DEVIOPMEIIT AVTEbILI,IBIT FOR A 60 UNIT APARI}IE{I BUILDITiIG OT,I PROPERTYLCATED sotm{ AND ADrACsn ro craN vrEw, HERTBGE PARK APARD{ENT PARTNBS.
l,tayor Hamilton: I€ also tabled j.tqn 3 to go along with this itern.
Barbara Dacy: The planning conmission reconmended approval of this itqn. oneof the major issues of discussion at the planning cfrission .*!, n9 ,u. ti,.traffic issr:e ard those concerns were voiced frqfl people that live in ttleneighborhood to the north of the proposed site. th" L.r".ns here aboutregard irg the rsnovaL of ttre stop signs at west Tgth street arxl creat plainsBlvd ' and as r',e noted in the staif uprlate, rnae know that the counci r is raer raware of rtrDotrs position on traffic control alorg this "t."tJ.- ve-f,ut a notethat this onry confirms that the city's intent to try and realign tH ior as soonas possibre ard get tte north/south traffic out of d;wntown ard
-on itis-ownrearigned roadr.,ay. rn a nutshelr, this overheid refrects .l.,. ..igh.r-buildinglocatio.n..ard buirdirg. configurarion on the site. what is p;;t; i= *or.9f ?l ,,L', shape_buirding wtrich is locared on tr," site-aper;;;#;il-il iu"a *,further south of the 10t.1ine to tLE existirry i t/z story apartsnent buirdirg butit is r0 feer croser ro rhe v,esr lou rine. ,itrJ appricant rr" "rt ittJ a goodlardscapirg plan to maximize so that lhe yard areas arourrl the buildinq isproviding for. good yard space. rhe elanni.ng ccnmissi.on "i* .a.pIJ-'d"previous corditions of approvar. thaE were ilp;=.d durirg tt= 1gg7 rev iew asweLl' r know that the councir is concerned uu""t ti," design and exteriorquaritv of the buildino- r now see *,"t tr*-ii"nitect is f,;.;--io;"il;^ippl icantthat could probably befter address tfrose q""aiJ"".
Brad Johnson:. r thoughE maybe first of au r"e courd review the process thatwe're going through to get averl.Ehing in oraer J1.,ce ,e aia ctranie-dJ ..orna u
t
46
ftity Courcil I\Eet j. n9 - June 13, 1988
t-
9Za, courcil Meering - June 27,1988
ltnt plus ltrDot recqmended that as an improved traffic ftow
Jim l{ehrle: lte reason being t}rat they didnrt eant the traffic going downPleasant View.
Courci Iman Horn :
IEttern.t-
Jim l{ehrre: you stirl have to keep traffic fron going west on pleasant view.
Acting t4ayor Ceving: I think rre beat this enough. t€trs go ahead with a
Hll;, I think $,e've gor enough infonnaii.r-J" to move. ,ray, you;ve got one
Councilman Johnson: yesr.one more cqment. A total restriction of turning,wourd our liabirity position onry be curJ-uy a-total ban on right turns orwoutd a precaurionarv sisn proviSe * "",,. iiJirityz s.yi;-;; ti"a".r'lorairu warning peopre oi the turn. Righa il; at your own risk? TtEt doesn, tsourd real good.
Acting l,tayor @ving: tet's move ahead on this.
counci lman Boyt moved, courcilman Horn seconded to pos! a no right turn sign atthe intersection of preasant view noiJ il-il; Mountain Bourevard. rhat thesign be posted sfuultaneously wirh ."tityfrg iL residents that the CiW rrill befTl::.Tr-q" Ii"Epins of u. int.dti;"-;-t;;;;t* d; io'=u"iiiri.Irearlng on July 25, 1988. AII voted in favor "rC tf,"-*"Ii"il;;j.*
Acting I'rayor Geving: we have directed staff then to cqne up with theseestifiates of cost, Gary, for arternatives-"" iG zstn as welr as the motion.
SIG.I PBMIT \ARIAI{CE REq]EST TO SECTION 2q-7265 TO CONSTRT'CT AN 80 SQUARE E'OOI'PYTPN SIAN, 615 FLYING CT,O[]D DRIVE, SUPNAUNNiCE STATION, ROIAN MUELLER.
P*ihq Horn moved, Counci lman Johnson secorded to approve permittinosuperanerica to instart an 86 square r*t !yio" .ign ,iii.,-.'n ii**.-)i"i...heisht prior ro receiving a condlitionar *E'p*it'rith t# i;ii#i;r'""1*i.io.,,
1. Tlre appricant must conforn to any corditions made as part of the corditionaruse pernit.
A1I voted in favor and the motion carried.
Rqnan Muerrer: Just a q:ick question on the recrcrnnerrration frqn staff aboutbeing abre to prace the'sign clontingent on conJitions being praced after tfrisfl:t.-]" time.- rhat puts.u" in a-rittre "tiirg" situation-wf,eiJ-L-iJ-po. or.slgn up. ...close vour store to do it. t,m r"6nAering, is there any assuranceI_rT city councir, is *ris soins ro ue to" Jra=ii;;iil'J;"il'i.#rri]i *"=spoken about in the previoui nre6tingZ
counci rman Horn: r tlrink therers a precedent here. obviousry, ,*re founal thaEthe Holiday has an g0 sor:are foot si!n. ror thsn to ccrne back arrl terl you thatyou have to cl.se ,ror. ='to.". for you-to E t-rp'.'. g0 square foot sign, theyr dhave a little t.or:lle supporting -that.
L
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48
93
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II
City Courcil t€eting - June 27, 19gg
RfiIan ltrerler: r urderstand there rourd be scme problqns there but rrd like toavoid any problans.
AcEing Mayor Geving: I tiink yout re on safe ground.
OIL REYCLITIG ORDIMI\ICE.
Co-urciLnan Hcrn: Irm going to rtpve that r€ irrch:de raste oil recycling as partof our current recyclirg ard have it dore at a c€ntraI facility sucfr ai p:lfic
r,orks as Don has reccnmerded.
Acting l.,layor Ceving: I will secord the nrotion. I think Ird rather second thisfor explanation of wtEt your problsn is BiU.
Councilman Boyt: Okay. Irve been rrorking on this for a year arrl a half andthatrs slmply not enough. This is a rnajor problau ard to say that $re can coverit by having one pick-up spot thatts o[En 8 hours on a Saturday isn't going toget it.
Acting l,tayor Geving: Are you saying that the reclzcling center because itrs only
open on SaturdalE would be a najor obstacle to this plan?
Courci lnan Bo)rt: We have got to make this as convenient for tEople as lre can
because what theyrre doing right now is damag ing ard very convenient. I think
that r,E have suggested in front of us o;:tions that are, given the damage, at afairly reasonable cost. I ltould like to see the City contract r^rith 2 or 3 pick-
up spots which I think pretty much r,Jould l-imit to the facilities that now changeoil in town. Don suggested $566.gg to $L,gOg.gO might do it. I think that's an
awfully good expenditure of City money if it keeps oil out of our lakes. I
think that r"re should require all new sites to put this in. IrE're talking about
a $L,996.06 ex[Erditure. Sonething ttrat can easily be, if it's built into the
new facility, it can be provided for, it would be a neat, orderly ard safe spot
to hold it. Certainly the City should provide collection at it's garage in the
recycl ing effort. If I had it my way, honestly, if I thought it toould pass,
I liould say every place that chooses to sell oil has to collect. !,ierre talking
about a SL,AUA.qA experd iture but werre talking about oil that gets collected
ard doesnrt get dunped. B:t since that r.lon t t IESs, I think Don's suggestion of
contracting is excel,lent. I think all new sites that are going to se11 oil
should provide waste crl lection.
Councilman H,crn: I thought that was my recqmendation to go along with Don's
recqmerdation. That it be at the public safety ard also set up a contractingsite so rre can have 18 hours and 7 days a reek coverage.
@unci lman Johnson: You didn'E say that.
Councilman Horn: I said Don's reconmendati.on.
Acting l4ayor Ceving: Does that sourd like rdhat you want done? t€t's say Bro$rn
says he'Il take ttle oil as a contracter ard at tlle same time Don's suggestion
says, $Je'11 open up the recycl ing center ard publ ic works garage ard r,re'll pick
up this used oil on Saturdays. Does that satisfy yours?
49
t("
(\CITY OF
EIIINIIISSEN
8
MEMORAND
TO: Don Ash\,rorth ,
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 "'' 1 .;'.'.- . -''
.c'tors*-i./-Ff
City Manager
Asst. City Planner
(,/zz/fi
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Jo Ann Olsen,
June 22, 1988
SuperAmerica S ign
o_r*_.--i_--.-.-.
6/>z /tg
On June 13, 1988, the City Council tableil action on the signvariance request for SuperAmerica until it could be determineil
whether the application should be processed as a conditinal usepermit or a variance. Staff conferred with the City Att.orney and
agreed that the application coulCl be processed as a conditionaluse permit. The condiEional use permit will permit an 80 squarefoot pylon sign with City Council approval and any conditions
deemed necessary.
The conditional use permit wilI be reviewed by the Planning
Commission on July 20, 1988, and the City Council- on August 8,1988. During the June 13th City Council d.iscussion, it appearedthe Council was in favor of permitting SuperAmerica an 80 squarefoot pylon sign. Rather than make the applicant wait to installthe sign after August 8, 1988, staff is recommending the CityCouncil permit the applicant to install the 80 square foot pylon
sign immediately with the understanding that any conditions ofthe conditional use permit will have to be followed.
RECOMMENDAT I ON
The City Council approves permitting SuperAmerica l-o install an
80 square foot pylon sign with a maximum 20 foot height prior to
receiving a conditional use permit with the following condition:
The applicant must conform tothe conditional use permiL.
any conditions made as part of
STAFF UPDATE
Staff researched the size of the existing Standard and Holiday
Station signs. The Standard sign is 69 square feet aod the
Holiday sign is 80 square feet. Staff spoke with sign companies
and found that 80 square feet is a Eypical and adeguate size for
a pylon sign. The sign company also stated that many signs were
64 square feet. since the sign ordinance allows for 80 square
foot pylon signs as a conditional use permit, staff feels t.heordinance is appropriate and should not be amended.
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SCALE: t/2'-t'4'
MATERIALS
tuaE - Astu A-5oo Ga. a,, fituluul, ftELD SIRENCrH 1O,OOO 7.5-L
PLATES - ASI A-3A, HNTNUU ftELO STAENCTd 36,000 P,S.r.
ttofE: YTELO Al 2r OFFSEr.
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CITY OF
EHANHASSEN
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: July 20, 1988
C.C. DATE: Aug. 3, 1988
CASE NO: 88-13 SUB
88-3 Site Plan
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
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Subdivision of 69.7 Acres into One Lot and TwoOutlots
LOCAUON: Southwest Corner of Hwy. 5 and Audubon Road
2
PROPOSAT: I
sq. Ft. Building for
Processing
APPLICAI{T: Mcclynn Bakeries
.7752 Mitchell Road
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
Site Plan Review for a 161,700for Office, Warehouse and Food
PRESENT
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT
AND LAND
ZONING :
ZONING
USE:
*4-ea€
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAI, CEARAC.:
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Industrial
:.:.J/rs'/3 ? -, -
.. 7-l z -o_/ ?,8 . -_._RRi Natural Green
A-2 i Vacant
IOPt Chanhassen Lake Business Park
A-2 i Vacant
Available to the property
Site is fairly level with a slope to thesouth towards the Chicago Milwaukee RRtracks. The site is currently cultivatedr^rith open and grass areas.
N-
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59.7 Acres
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Mcclynn Bakeries Subdivision & Site plan
July 13, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
section 5-16-2, of the rop District arlows offices and warehousesas a permitted use in the IOp District. Section 5-16-4 permitsfood processing as a conditional use in the IOp District:
The setbacks for the rop District are 30 feet front. yarc setback,10 foot rear and side yard setback and fOp District iequires aminimum lot frontage of 150 feet, Iot itepth of 200 feei, .i*i*".1ot coverage of 70t and maximum height of 4 stories or i0 feetfor the principle structure.
Article I of the Zoning Ordinance requires perimeter landscaping,and_ landscaping of vehicular areas and landlcaping for trashenclosures.
The zoning ordinance requires the parking equal to the number otemployees on the major shift for processing -plants .
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Building Department
DNR
Asst. City Engineer
BACKG ROUND
ANALYS I S - Preliminary Plat
At tachmen t
Att achment
Attachme n t
#2
#3
*4
On April 11, 1988, the City Council approved a conditional usepermit request for food processing faiilities and site piinreview for Ehe Mccrynn Bakeries located at the southwesi cornerof Hwy. 5 and Audubon Road (AtLachmenr f5). The applicani h."revised.the building Iayout to support a different- Lype of foodprocessing than what ivas proposed originally and is iiso pro-posing to subdivide the G9.7 acre pariel inlo one lot and tr.rooutlots.
since the applicant already received a conditional use permit forfood processing, sraff.is not requiring t.he applicant tL gothrough another ccnditional use permit. the oiiginal plai forfood processing resulted in a fresh food productl The nee, planresults in a frozen food product. Because the site plan ha-s beenanended, the applicant must receive site plan approvll again.
The applicant is
and cr^ro outlots.
minimurn lot areaand a lot ilepth
proposlng to
The propertyof one acre,of 200 feet.
subdivide 59.7 acres into one lotis zoned IOP, which requires aa minimum lot frontage of i50 feetLot 1, Block l- contains 37 acres
McGIynn Bakeries Subdivision a Site PlanJuIy 13, 1988
Page 3
and meets the requj.rements for lot depth and 1ot frontage.
Outlot A contains 20.5 acres anC Outlot B contains 8.8 acres and
both meet the requirements for 1ot frontage and Lot depth.
The applicant is proviSing a 60 foot public street right-of-way
t.o provide frontage to Lot l-, Outlot A and Outlot B. The pro-
posed public right-of-way will access Audubon Road at tlvo points
r{ith a separation of approximately 500 feet. The most northerly
access point of the proposed public right-of-way onto Audubon
Road is approximatety 600 feet from the centerline of Hwy. 5 and
directly across from the Paisley Park driveway.
Gradinq,Drainaqe anil Utilities
In his attached memo, the Assistant City Engineer reviews thegrailing, ilrainage, utilities and street issues for the proposed
p1aE. The Assistant City Engineer will be meeting with the
applicant and MnDOT on Tuesday, July 19, 1988, to discuss addi-
tional right-of-way needed for Hwy. 5 improvements. The
Assistant City Engineer wilI update Lhe Planning Commission on
the results of this meeting.
RECOMIVIENDATI ON
The proposed preliminary plat rneets the requirements of the
District and staff recomrnends the Planning Comr'nission adopt
following motion:
IOP
the
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision
Request #88-13 as shown on the plat stamped "Received June 13,
i988" and subject to the following conilitions:
1. The applicant sha1l enter into a developrnent contract with the
City and provide the City with the necessary financial sure-
ties to guarantee the installation of these public improvements.
The applicant wilI work with the City to proviCe the necessary
easements or improvements \dhich are required as a result of the
feasibility study for the upgrading of Audubon Road and Mcclynn
Park.
2
3
4
5
AIl stormsewer systems
concrete pipe to be in
urban constsruction.
The plans sha1l be revised
The applicant sha1l obtain
Watershed District permi E.
shall be constructed of reinforced
accord.ance with the City's standards for
to show pond skimmer details.
and comply with a1I conditions of the
ltcclynn Bakeries Subdivision & Site PlanJuly 13, 1988
Page 4
ANALYS IS Site Plan Review
The applicant is proposing to devel.op Lot 1, Block 1of McclynnPark. The Lot is located at the most southerly portion of the69.7 acres and will be serviced by an internal public street and
Audubon Road. The applicant is proposing to develop 20.4 acresof the 37 acre lot r^rith pot.ential Phase II of Mcclynn Bakeries
Iocated west of the subject site.
The applicant is proposing to locate the building adjacent to theinternal street with office and visitor parking located west ofthe building, employee parking located soutsh of the building inthe center of the site and the shipping area located south of thebuilding adjacent to Audubon Road. The 161r700 square footbuilding consists of an office, warehouse, food processing plant
and freezer. The building will be serviced by a thirty foot
access from the proposed internal street to service both thedelivery area and the office and visitor parking and will also
have an access point from Audubon Road to service the shipping
and enployee parking. There will be a small service tlrive fromthe internal street which will only be used as a mechanical
access .
The facility will be used for McGlynn's Taste of France producc.
The product is a frozen dough which will be made on site and
shipped off site for use by other clients. The original facility
would have produced a fresh producL for t'lcGlynn sales. The pro-
posed facility will involve "receiving" truck traffic bringingsupplies to the site and "shipping" truck traffic removing theproduct. The hours of truck traffic will be normal working hours
with some shipping traffic at night.
Site Requirements
The total lot coverage, including parking areas and building, is
37.4t which is under the maximum of 70t total Iot coveraqe. The
applicant is providing 210 parking spaces incluiling 5 handi-
capped parking spaces. The total nurnber of parking spaces
required by the zoning ordinance is 150 (number of employees on
major shift). The building height is 28 feet which is under the
maximum 50 ioot height for the IOP District. The office area
will be 2 stories. The proposed building and parking areas meet
the setback requirements of the IOP District and the applicant isproviding required Iighting on the outside of the building anC
within the parking 1ots.
The site plan locates the parking areas to tshe hrest or south side
of the building which provides screening from the internal public
street and Audubon Road. In addition, the applicant is providing
extensive grading, berming and landscaping to further screen
the parking and docking activities from both the internal streets
and Audubon Road. Sheet 6 and 7 of the plans illustrate the pro-
posed grading and berming of the site. SheeE 9 illustrates the
McG lynnJuly 13,
Page 5
Bakeries Subdivision & Site Plan
1988
The proposed site plan meets the requirements
and staff recomrnends the Planning Commission
motion:
of the IOP D i str ict
adopt the following
(The Planning Commission reconrmends approval of Site Plan Review
#88-3 as shosn on Ehe plans stamped "Received June 13, 1988" andsubject to the following conditions:
I. The applicant shall submit a revised landscaping plan
addressing Ehe following i ssues :
a
b
The applicant either provide additional evergreens
Iandscaping or replace some of the deciduous treesevergreens to maintain 50* winter opacity.
for
wi th
2
The applicant provide additional screening along thesoutherly and easterly border of the employee parkingarea and around the service drive located on the northside of t,he building and thaL the screening includeevergreens.
contract \di th Ehefinancial sure-public improvements.
The applicant sha11 enter into a developmentCity and provide the City with the necessaryties to guarantee the installation of these
proposed landscaping plan.
The applicant is extensively landscaping the site includinginternaL landscaping within the vehicular areas. The majority ofthe proposed plantings are deciduous trees and staff is recom-
mending that more evergreens be used to provide 50t winter opa-city. Staff is recommending that the service drive located northof the building should be better screened with evergreens andthat the southerly employee parking area be provided with
evergreens along the southern and eastern edge of the parking
area to provide year round screening.
The ordinance requires landscape screening of any service struc-ture such as trash receptacles. The applicant is locating atrash compactor on the west side of the building within the bulkstorage docking area. The trash receptacle is within the parking
area and it wilI be very difficult to provide separate screening.Since the applicant is providing screening around the parkingarea itself, sEaff does not feel separate screening around thereceptacle is necessary.
The applicant has submitted a revised plan for the bulk deliveryarea west of the warehouse (Attachment *6). The amendment isminor and still meets the reguirements of the ordinance.
RECOMMENDATION
McGlynnJuly 13,
Page 6
Bakeries Subdivision & Site Plan
1988
3 The applicant will work with the City to provide the necessary
easements or improvements rvhich are required as a result of the
feasibility study for the upgrading of Audubon Roaal and Mcclynn
Park .
4 Al- 1 stormsewer systems
concrete pipe to be in
urban construction.
ATTACHMENTS
shall be constructed of reinforced
accordance with the City's standards for
1
2
3
4
5
6
7I
Excerpt from City Code.
Memo from Building Department dated June 27, 1988.
Letter from DNR dated June 16, 1988.
Memo f rorn Asst. City Engineer dated July 14, 1988-
City Council minutes ilated April 11, 1988.
Planning Commission minutes dated t'larch I6, 1988.
Application.eieliminary plat and site plan dated June 13, 1988.
5. The plans shal1 be revised to shorl pond skimmer details.
6. The applicant sha1l obtain and comply with all conditions of the
Watershed District Permit.
o ZONING $ 20-814
ARTICLE XXII. *IOP" INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK DISTRICT
Sec. 2G811. Intcnt.
The intent of the "IOP" District is to provide an area identifred for large scale light
industrial and commercial planned development.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-1), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G812. Permitted uses.
Ihe followilg uses are permittetl in an "IOP" District:
(1) Offrces.
(2) Warehouses.
(3) Lightmanufacturing.
(4) Trade shops.
(5) Health services.
(6) Printers.
(7) Indoor health and recreation clubs.
(8) Body shops.
(9) Utility serviccs.
(10) Recording studios.
(11) Off-premises parking lots.
(12) Conferencer/convention centers.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-2), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G813. Permitted accessory uses.
The following are permitted accessory uses in an "IOP" District:
(1) Parking lots and ramps.
(2) Sigxs.
(3) Retail sales of products stored or manufactured on the site provided no more than
twenty (20) percent of the floor space is used for retail sales.
(Ord. No. 80, Art- V, $ 16(5-16-3), 12-15-86)
Sec. 20€14. Conditional uses,
The following are conditional uses in an "IOP" District:
(1) Concrete mixing plants.
(2) Communication transmission towers.
t227
o
o
$ 20-814
(3) Public buildings.
(4) Motor freight terminals.
(5) Outdoor health and recreation clubs.
(6) Screened outdoor storage.
(7) Research laboratories.
(8) Contracting yards.
(9) Lumber yards.
(10) Home improvement trades.
(11) Hotels and motels.
(12) Food processing.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-164), 12-15-86)
State law reference-Conditional uses, M.S. $ 462.3598.
Sec. 2G.815. I-ot requirements and setbacks.
The following minimum requirements shalr be observed in an ,,Iop,, District subject toadditional requirements, exceptions and modifications set forth in this chapter:
o
o(1)
(2)
The minimum lot area is one (1) acre.
The minimum lot frontage is one hundred fifty OS0) feet, except that lots fronting on
a cul-de-sac shall have a minimum frontage of sixty (60) feet.
The minimum lot depth is two hundred (200) feet.
The maximum lot coverage is seventy (20) percent.
off'street parking areas sharr comply with all yard requiremenk of this section,
except that no rear yard parking setback shall be required for lots directly abutting
railroad trackage; and, no side yard shall be required when adjoining commercial
uses establishjoint off-street parking facilities, as provided in section 20-1122, except
that no parking areas shall be permitted in any required side street side yard. The
minimum rear yard shall be fifty (50) feet for lots directly abutting any residential
district. side street side yards shall be a minimum of twenty-five (25) feet in all
districts. Other setbacks are as follows:
a. For front yards, thirty (30) feet.
b. For rear yards, ten (10) feet.
c. For side yards, ten (10) feer.
The maximum height is as follows:
(3)
(4)
(5)
(b)
a. For the principal structure, four (4) stories/hfty (50) feetb. For accessory structures, one (l) story.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-5), 12-Lb-86)
1228
o
CHANIIASSEN CITY CODE
$ 20-1124 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
S€c. 2G1124. Lighting.
All commercial, industrial and multi-family parking lots shall be lighted. Lighting shall
be ilir€ct€d away from the public rightof-way and adjacent residential or agricultural districts-
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V[, $ 1(7-1-9), 12-15-86)
e
C
J
Sec. 2Gll25. Required number of on-site parking spaces
On-site parking areas of suffrcient size to provide parking for patrons, customers, suppli-
ers, visitors and employees shall be provided on the premises of each use. The minimum
number of required on-site parking spaces for the following uses shall be:
(1) Assembly or exhibition hall, auditori,rrn, theater or sports arena_One (1) parking
space for each four (4) seats, based upon design capacity.
(2) Auto sales, trailer sales, marine and boat sales, implement sales, garden supply
store, building materials sales, auto repair-one (1) parking space for each frve
huntlred (500) square feet of floor area.
(3) Automobile seryice station-Four (4) parking spaces, plus two (2) parking spaces for
each service stall: such parking spaces shall be in addition to parking space required. for gas pump urreas.
(4) Bowling alley-Seven (Z) parking spaces for each bowling lane.
(5) Churches-One (1) parking space for each three (3) seats, basetl on the desigrr capacity
of the main seating area, plus one (1) space per classroom.
(6) Dwelling:
a. Single-family-Two (2) parking spaces, both of which must be completely en-
closed. No garage shall be converted into riving space unless other acceptable
on-site parking space is provided.
b. Multi-family-One (1) parking space per elliciency unit, one and one_half (1%)
spaces per one (1) betlroom unit, two (2) parking spaces per two (2) or more
bedrooms. Senior citizens housing shall have three-fourths spaces per dwelling
unit- At a minimum, one (1) space per unit must be completely enclosed.
(7) Financial institution-One (1) space for each two hundred fifty (2b0) square feet offloor space.
(8) Furniture or appliance store-One (1) space for each four hundred (400) feet of floor
space.
(9) Hospitals and nursing homes-One (1) space for every two (2) beds, plus one (1) spacefor every two (2) employees on the largest single shift.
(10) M.rrr1'""tr.ing or processing plant_One (1) off-street parking space for each em-ployee on the major shift and one t) off-street parking space for each motor vehiclewhen customarily kept on the premises.
(11) Medical and dental clinics and animal hospitals_One (1) parking space for each onehundred fifty G50) square feet of floor area.
1248
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant City Planner
FROM: Steve Kirchman, Building Inspector
DATE: June 27, 1988
l<
SUBJ: 88-13 SUB and 88-3 Site Plan (Mcclynn)
It should be noted that the maximum distance of travel to an exit
in a sprinklered B-2 occupancy is 200 ft. This distance appears
to be exceeded in a number of areas and should be corrected.
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I
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
UEUORANDU},I
TO: Planning Conniss ion
FRoM: tarry Brovn, Staff Engineer
DATE: JuIy 14, 1988
/,h
SUBJ:
Thls seventy acre site is located on the southuest colner of
intersection of state Hight ay 5 and Audubon road. The site
composed of rolling topography vith a grove of mature trees
located along a portion of the easterly property boundary.
Preliminary Plat and
PLanning FiIes 88-l-3
Baker ies .
Reviev for Mcclynn Park,
SITE PLAN, Mcclynn
site Plan
suB ,88-3
the
is
The City Council establishetl an Economic Developnent District
rrhich includes Audubon Road, and the McGIynn parcel. The City
Council also authorized a feasibility study to look into the
upgrading of Audubon Road betneen State Highway 5 and the railroad
tiicks south of the subject parcel, the extension of utilities
underneath Audubon Road, and possibly the Public improvements for
the proposecl right of vay of Mcctynn Park. Unfortunately the
teasiUitity stuily is not coroplete. The applicant r'rhishes to
pu!sue preliroinary plat reviev contingent upon conpliance vith th€
iinaine= of the fLasibitity study prior to final PIat approval-'
Sanitarv Sever
Municipal sanitary sewer i.s available at the intersection of Park
Road and Audubon Road. As rnentioned pleviously, the feasibility
stucly will address the extension of the utilities across Audubon
Road and possibly through the proposed right of vay to provide
service for the Outlots.
McGIynn Baker ies
Page 2
Hunicipal \rater servlce is available to the site by an existing 12inch diameter watermain along the east side of Audubon Road. Theplan proposes that the uatermain be Looped throughout the proposedright of r.ray, The proposed fire hydrants should be located a
ninimum distance of 10 feet behind the street section tofacilitate any future hook-ups to the system sith out disturbingthe street sect i on.
Access
The applicant has provided for a 50 foot right of vay which is inaccordance to the Cityrs standards for industrial subdivisions.
The feasibility study for the upgrading of Audubon Road vil1address the need for turn lanes into the proposed industrial site.The proposed plat maintains a distance of 590 feet separationbetueen State High\day 5 and the proposed northerty access onto
Audubon Road. The Minnesota Department of Transportat i on ( Mn,/DOT )recommends a ninimun separato! of 600 feet such that proper turnIanes could be constructed on Audubon Road if anticipated trafficvolumes warrant the need for the turn lanes. Mn,/DOT also statedthat they uould be requesting an additional 80 feet of right ofvay along the northerly property boundary to facilitate thewidening of State Highvay 5. This would decrease the separationdlstance to approximately 400 feet. The applicant's engineer isconcerned as to the impact of these requirements on the northerlypoltion of the property. In light of this, the applicant hasscheduled a meeting on Tuesday July 19, 19BB to confirm l4n/ DOTposition. If the results of the additional right of tay has asevere inpact on the northerly portion of Outlot B, the applicantuiIl tempolarily r.rithdrau the application to revise the pfat. Inany instance, I vilt be making a brief presentation during thePlanning Commission meeting to Eelay the results of this meeting.
Gradinq and Erosion Contr o I
In the interest of titne, the City CounciL approved theplan on JuIy 12, 1988. I have enclosed my memorandunCouncil dated JuIy 7, 19BB for the cornrnissions revieyattachment 1) .
Grad i ng.to the City(refe! to
Dra i naqe
Additional
outlots.sites forlocated on
easements
ponding may be required for the development of theGiven the existing topography, these adaitional pondingthe outlots will outlet to the proposed ponding iitethe southerly portion of Lot 1 Block 1. Addttionalalong the westerly portion of Lot 1B1ock one r,ri11 be
I{aterma i n
Mcclynn Baker ies
Page 3
revieved to accommotlate
from the outlots to theplat revi ev.
this conveyanceprinary pond i ng
of storm nater run offsite as part of the final
The Department of Natural Resources has indicated that the
proposed dike infrlnges on the boundary of a flood zone. The
proposecl elevation of the dike is at 908 vhich coincides to the
100 year flood elevation vithin the flood zone (refer to
attachment 2). Both the watershed District and the Department of
Natural Resources have intlicated that this dike uill have a
mininal impact on the flooal zone and have given their approval of
the proposed grad i ng .
It is therefor recommended that the
Park dated rtReceived June 13, 1988"
folloving conditions:
pre l iminary
be approved
plat for Mcclynnsubject to the
1
Recommended Conditions
The applicant sha11 enter
City and provide the City
sureties to guarantee the
improvenents.
AIl storm selrer systems
concrete pipe to be in
for urban construct i on.
into a developnent contract vith thetrith the necessary financial
installation of these publ ic
shatl be constructed of reinforced
accordance r^rith the City's standards
a1I
details.
condit i ons
2 The applicant vilt uork uith the City to provide the necessary
easenents or improvements which are required as a result of
the feasibility study for the upgratling of Audubon Road and
McGIynn Park.
3
4. The plans shall be revised to show pond skimmer
The appticant shall obtain and comply with
of the llatershed District Permit.
Attachrnents
1. Memo to Don Ashvorth ilated July 7, 1988.
2. Memo from DNR dated MaY 17, 1988.
la-CITY OF
ETifiNH.TSSEN
5s0 couLrER DRlvE. *" r?I#3.; **ror..*, MrNNEsorA ss317
r,ctoi Dy C,i/ ,,1,!m,,lhrir.:,
EnJonE ,<A.eMEMORANDUM
TO: Don
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
3ao1r--
Ashworth,City Manager
Staff EngineerLarry Brot'rn,
July 7, 1988
Approval of McGlyznn BakeriesErosion Control PlanFile No. 88-10
-z/tt./_t
I _Grading,Drainage and
0:lrr:ir.\?r,
Attached are the grading, drainage and. erosion control documentsdated "Received July 7, 1988" for the McGlynn Bakeries sitelocated on the southwest quadrant of St.ate Highway 5 and AudubonRoad. As you may reca11, the original concept plin for the siteproposed the construction of the McGIynn Corporate Head.quarters.Since that time, McGlynn has determined that a "freezer division"is more appropriate to meet their demand at this time.
the grading plan ca11s for cut and fill depths in excess of 35
5:gl. The majoriE.y of the cut will be at the very top oi thehill central to the site to create the buildinS pad. Similarly,the majority of the fill shall be moved down towards the southernportion of the site to create 4:1 fill slopes and a pondingretenti.on area along the southernmost boundary line.- The iotalvolume of excavation has been estimated a! 66a,OO0 cubic yards.
Because of the extreme volume of material that needs to be movedand the soil conditions that exist in the field, the contractorhas requested that the hours of operation be extended from 6:00a.m. to 11:30 p.m. This constitutes two 8-hour work shifts.Staff has reviewed the soil conditions and the various deadlinesfor the construction season. Due to the clay soils that i." p..-sent.and the dry $reather during this construction season, it Lscrrtrcal that the contractor work in double shifts Monday throughFriday to take advantage of the dry weather to successfuilycompLete Ehe project. The contracior, Imperial Developersl whichrs Ene same contractor that t.he Kerber Boulevard ImprovementProject^was recently aqrarded to, has done similar oierations such
1:, Elt" Carlson Cornpany building in the City of I,tinnltonka,whlch aLso reguired a double shift to complete the projeci. tothe best of our knowled.ge, these working hoo." have been successful
Drte Su)nire,j la t:.,.i .:h.4
Don AshrvorthJuly 7, i.988
Page 2
within the other cities due .o the lack of surrounding residenceswhere they have done such operations. The two g_hour shifts willobviousry require that the contractor uring-in i rght i.r".q,ii.p.entto maintain working conditions in evening 6ours. -tne E.rqi=iee.for the applicant has indicated that ihe entire earth work balan_ces on site, which means that no fill material wi:-f trave-lo Uehauled off site, thereby eliminatin!-any truck traffic on theroadways which would-afiect neighboiing properties. Stait-isrecommending that aI1 the adjacent profieity-owners shalI benotified of the hours. stafi wirr L. itt"ntire to this situationand if it_ causes any problems with adjacent property ovrners.Fortunately, the closest residents foi this i."" 'r"ifa t-.-inexcess of 1,000 feet away which would be located :.n itre- - --
Timberwood Estates subdivision. fn fittt of the contrictor,sprevious reputation for working with srlch conai t ions -i
n
-piv^o"tt,
and other cities, staff.is rec6mmending that tne compies"!i- ,oo.Xhours Monday rhrough Friday be approved by the ciit A;;;;ii .on_tingent upon sraff revisins thesi-hours it tt" iJji..it"iiJp...vowners submit a legitimate complaint to the City.
The grading pran proposes a storm water d.etention pond located onthe southern portion or- the parcel. This detenii.;-;;"e-;;;maintained the predeveloped iunoff rate and proviae"-iJ"q;ui.storage-for a 100-year frequency storm evenE. In the atdachedletter from Mark Koegler oi van-Doren Hazard Stallints J"i.J c"fV6, 1988 he has indicited that Bob obermeyer witir tfie'niiev--Purgatory l{atershed District has stated ih.t the revis"J-ir"ai"gplan may faIl under the approval of the previous graain! ilansubmitted. A formal 1ettei sha11 be sent to the office to con_firm his verbal comments (refer to Attachment No. l-).
rt is recommended that any construction trailers or constructionstructures or any kind that are to be placed on site shall beapproved by the City Engineer prior to the placement of Ehesestructures.
The contractor shall be responsible for on and off site cleanupresulEing from the construcE.ion of this sit.e.
Attached is the "generic" grading perrnit which wiII be modifiedtor this site (refer to Attachment No. 2).
Page SC-8 of the specifications indicates that the storm sewerappurEenances shall be constructed of corrugated metal pipe ver_sus the plans which show reinforced concrete storm sewer pipe.The specificat.ions should be revised to reflect that the itormsewer system shalI be constructed out of reinforced concrete pipe(RCP) to remain consistent with the City's standards for urbanconst.ruction.
It is therefore recommentled Ehat the plans and specificationsthe- qrading, drainage and erosion conirol dated ',Received July5, 1988" be approved upon the following conditions:
for
-. -.-*,-r.,*t*i*-- e-
I
Don As h$ror th
aIuIy 7, 1988
Pagre 3
The applicantwith the Citycial sureties
improvements.
2. The applicant sha1l obtain andthe Watershed District permit.
shalL enter into a grading permit agreementand provide the City with the necesiary finan-to guarantee the proper installation of these
comply with all conditions of
3.
4
10. If for any reason access isHighway 5, this access shallDepartment of Transportat.ionsuch a temporary access.
A1I erosion control measures sha11 be in place priorconmencement of any grading and once in place shallplace throughout the duration of construltion. Thesha11 be responsible for periodically checking aIlcontrols and making any necessary repairs promptly.
A11 burning or disposal permits shalI be approve<lof Chanhassen and the Minnesota pollution Controlprior to Lhe corunencement of any disposal .
5
eros I on
Wood fiber blanket or eguivalent shal1 be used on alldisturbed slopes greater than 3:1.
The developer and. contractor shalI agree that the hours of opera-tion sha11 be 6:00 a.m. to 11:30 p.m. until such time as theCity deems that these hours ot- construction are a disturbanceto adjacent property owners, at which time the applicant andcontractor agree to abide with any revisions to these hoursoi operation determined by City staff or City Council.
The developer sha11 clean daily dirt or debris from thestreet.s or surrounding property that has resulted fromconstruction work by the developer, its agents, or assigns.
AI1 construction trailers or structures shalI be approved forplacement by the City Bngineer prior to the commen;ament of
p lacement .
to the
remain in
deve loper
by the City
Agency
5
7
6
9 A11 lighting devices sha11 be placed ondoes not create a hazard or nuisance toowners or traffic along Audubon Road or
site such that itadjacent property
State Highway 5.
deemetl necessary from Statebe approved by the Minnesotaprior to the construction of
Attachments
As noted
/J-
/
!
3030 Ha.bo. Lan€ Nonh
Bldg. ll, Suite 104
Minneapolis. MN 55447-2175
6r255&1950
July 6, 1988
l,lr. Gary l,larren, City EngineerCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, H innesota S5317
Dear Hr. llarren:
In accordance wi th . our. te lephone conversat.ion yesterday, I amenclosing the following i tems:
1. Appl ication for Excavating permit
2, Proj ect Grad i ng plans 7 Sets
3, Project Specifications 2 Sets
fftiltssEH
JUL O7 I98B
EtctHEtflH0 oEPI.
Jmper i a I -Deveiopers has been selected as the grad i ng contractor.The tota I cost of the grading project incruoiig conIractor -fees,
testing ano field inspect jon ii estimated at $623,000.00.Therefore' I have advised r,rcGrynn Bakeries that they wiri nJed toobta i n a I etter of credit in t-he amount of $685,300:00.
In a .rel ated item, we contacted Bob 0bermeyer wi th the RiieyPurgatory l.latershed District regarding p e r m i t ' a p p r o v a l . Afterexp.l aining the nature of the chlnge i-n 'the plan, tre stated thatthe project could proceed under tie existin! waiershed districtpermit. Plans have been sent to his office-and he wilI provideus with written confirmation of his verbal comment s
As I mentioned to. you, Imperial Devel opers is planning tocommence construction activities on Tuesday, July 12, t9ga.Initial work wilI include the instal lation of -erosioir contro l asspecified on the plans_.--lleavy construction is expecterl to beginon Thursday, July 14, 1988.
etiy 0r efl
MEGEI
.-t
If you have any quelti.ons-or have need of aninformation on this pro.1 ect, lt.ur."lon'tu.t ,.. I woffice ful ly inforreo -oi rh; ;;;;;;r!"ii tt is projecclosely tied to the .succe.s;i;i-'.Jmptetion ofimprovements alons Audubo;-R;;- lij s"rit...up Road.
Very truly yours,
VAN OOREI,t-HAZARD.STALLINGS, INC.
y additionalill keep yourt since it isthe pubi ic
by:€. il!-a-
R. Hark Koeo I erVice Pres id6nt
RHK: sd
enc.
cc: llichael lllcGlynn, l,|cG.l ynn gakeries
e-.
* - r,,g;lirligi:ua,- -,:i,;,i!ii=.;l:JE,j i
APPLICATION FOR EXCAVATI}JG PERMI'T
Permits No-
Fee:
'fe lephone 937 -9404
Owners Name McGlynn Bakeries
7752 M1tche1l Road Eden Prai.rie MN 5 5344
Ioperial Dev elop ers, Inc.Te 1e pho neExcav a Eo r
Address
88t-6464
9001 Grand Ave.So.,Bloomington, MN 5S4ZO
B Iock All Subdivisi on Mcclvnn park
Southr^rest guadrant-TH5&Audubon RoadSite Address
Des cri p tion of wo:k :o be done: Earrhuoving
Es tina Eed of excavali.on 664 , 000 cubic varCs
Plo r. plan
ElevaEions
ELeva tions
Present elevations.
after excavation is ccnpleted:
of neigh5orj-ng properiy within 15 feet of excavation:
Location of any buildings or sEructures on the property where th,_-r,rork is Eo be performed and the location of any buildings orsLructures on land of adjacenE oHners which are within L5 feetof E,he property o-r whi-ch may be affeceed by Ehe proposed grodinr]
operaEions; There are no buildinBs on thls ro ert or within 15r of t
quantJ. ty
showing
ro ert llne on ad cen
1,it
S SIG}JATUP.NPP I CANT r-
^ --4 rir:rl*_----. ....+.e.-d. -.:.1
Date -_------.--.-
Address
Lo..: Alt--,r............
Indicate the use or occupancy for which the proposed vrork is
irt..d"d,
I
Efl0HrERffiG 0tPL
GRAD ING PERMI T
PERMIT
OF CHAi'IHASSEN,
da ted , 1988, issuecl by the CITYa MinnesoE muni. ci pa1 corporation (',City',), to
"::i:".:';::":l"lthe City to approve a grading piimit in con junction'wittr-'ifr" p.o_posed site plan for McGlynn aaxery (referrei to in this p.riit ."the "pIat"). The land ii lega1ly d"""rib.d .",
of Approval . The Citythat the Developer hisits terrns and furnish
2. Conditionsthe permit on condi t.ionassigns, shall abide by
requ j.red by it.
hereby approves
agents andthe security
3. plans- The plat shal1 be graded in accord.ance withthe forlowing p1ans. The prans shalJ. n6t t" attached to irri.permit. If the plans vary from the r^rritten terms of this-permit,the written terms shall control. The plans are:
Plan A--Soil Erosion ControlPl,an B--Grading plan Plan and Schedule
4.the grading
Developer mCit.y. If aupdating th
r- ncreas es a
aY, h olrever, request an extension of time
Time of Performance. The Developer shaand erosion control oy December 1
n extension is granted, it sha1I be condie security posted by the Developer to refnd the extended cornpletion date.
11 complete
, 1988. Thefrom thetioned uponlect cos t
5. Erosion Control. plan A sha11 be implemented by the?:I:1"p.{.and inspecred and approved by rhe Ciry. irr" City *"vrmpose additional erosion contror requ-irements if cney *o.rid b.beneficial. Afl areas disrurbed bt-ah; excavation and back_firring operat.ions shafl be res".ala -io rthwi th after the compre-tion of the work in that area. e"cepi-as otherieise provided inthe erosion control pran, seed "taii'-ue- rye grass or other fast-growing seed suitable to Ehe exisring "ori t5 pi".riau-J"i.*po...yg.?old-cover as rapidly as possible. " A1I seedea ur.". "f,iii U.mu.Lched and disc anchoied a! necessary -ior seed ..tuni:.on.-'
The parties,recognize thaE time is of the essence in controrJ.ingerosion. If the Developer does not "o.p1y with the .;;;i;;-control plan and schedur-e or supprementiry instructions ieceiveafrom the City, .he City may t"tE'"r.i".la io., ," it deemsappropriate to controL eroiion- trr" ciiy will endeavor to notifythe Developer in advance of any p.opo""a action, but failure ofthe City to do so wilt nor "ai;"[-r;;-ilr"roper,s and Cityrsrights or obligations hereunder. ri-tt,J DeveLoper does not reim_bY::9 tlg City for any cost the City incurrea for such workhtitl-rn thirty (30) days, the City *iy-Ji., down the lerrer ofcredit to pay any costs.
Deve l ope rresulted
assigns.
shall daily cleanfrom construction dirt
work
and
by
. 6. Clean up. Theoebrls from streeEs that hasthe Developer, its agents or
-
7. Security. To guarantee compliance with the terms ofthis permit, the Developer sha11 furnish the City with a cash
escror^, or irrevocable letter of credit from a bank (,,security" )for $ 685,300.00 . The bank and form of the letter of creditshall be subject t.o the approval of the City Administrator. Theletter of credit shal1 be for a term ending September 1, 1989.
8 Responsibility for Costs .
A. Except as othererise specified herein, theDeveloper sha1l pay all costs incurred by it or the City in con-junction with the grading and. erosion control , including but notlimited to inspection expenses incurred in connection with appro-val and acceptance of the permit.
B. The Developer shall hold the City and its of-ficers and employees harmless from claims made by itself andthird parties for damages sustained or costs incurred resultingfrom permit approval and work done in conjunction with it. TheDeveloper shall indemnify the City and its officers and. employeesfor all costs, damages, or expenses \.rhich the City may pay orincur in consequence of such claims, including attorney's fees.
C. The Developer sha11 reimburse the City for costsincurred in the enforcement of this permit, including engineering
and attorney's fees.
D. The Developer sha11 pay in full all bills sub-mitted to it by the City for oblications incurred under this per-mit within thirty (30) days after receipt. If the bills are notpaid on time, the City may halt all work and construction.
9. Developerr s Default. In the event of default by the
Developer as to any of the work to be performed by it hereunder,the City may, at its option, perform the work and the Developershall promptly reimburse the City for any expense incurred by theCity, provided t.he Developer is first given notice of the work indefault, not less than four (4) days in advance. This permit is
a license for the City to act, and it sha11 not be necessary forthe City to seek a court order for permission to enter the land.
When the City does any such r"rork, the City may, in addit.ion to
its other remedies, assess the cost in whole or in part.
I0. Notice. The applicant must notify the City Engineer
in writing a minimum of 48 hours prior to construction.
11. watershed District Permit. The applicant shall
comply with the conditions of the attached ilatershed District
permit, especially as it relates to seeding and restoration of
vegetative cover.
12. TSITE SPECIFIC CONDITIONS TO BE ADDED]
,, -, e,.,jriiald,i{$a*irii--,., :. --,. - } r*.Enri:j}t4{
( SEAL )
STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF CARVER
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BY:
Thomas L llami l ton ,Mayor
BY:
Don Ashworth,City Manager
DEVELOPER
NOTARY PUBLIC
acknohrledged before me thi s
he foregoing insof
Ashworth, C t tymunicipal corporo the authority
BY:
)
(
)
T
-
day
and by Don
I{i nnesotapursuant t
trument. was acknowledged before me this, 1988, by Thomas L. Eamilton, Mayor,Manager, of the City of Chanhasse-n, aaE.ion, on behalf of the corporation and.granted by it.s City Council.
STATE OF MINNESOT.q
COUNTY OF
The
_ day of
SS.
foregoing ins trument, 1988.
)
(
)
was
by
NOTARY PUBLIC
DRAFTED BY:City of Chanhassen690 Coulter DriveP.O. Box I47
Chanhassen, t{N 55312(6I2) 937-1900
-.-. .:-:- r..r-t.o..5..r.i.. - :,
-3-
I
Date:
PROPOSAL
SITE ETDING
Hcclynn Eakeries
4, 485 r-r' g I . 6o LF
McGlynn Bakeries, Inc.
7752 fii tchel] Road
Eden Prairie, Minnesota 55344
Attn: Mictael J. trlcGlynn
Gentlemen:
Site Gradino
Clearing arri crubbing
Ccrrurr3n Excavation
Ereion Pence (Type I)
I rs g 31oo.r:O 6 s___!M.co
663,869 CY e .6? Cy $ 4Sl,+30.71--
s 1,t'16.@
Ercion Fence (TYpe II) _ll!__ If,e 3-oo LF 9 z, t10.6
Hay Bales 25 EA s 15.00
The undersigneo, lnrpgr-tltt- \eUgLCOgLS, tUc-. , as Bidder,proposes and agre nd suppliesfor site grrading at. Mcclynn Bakeries in the city of Chantnssen, Minnesotj, inaccordance with lhe plans ard as &scribed in the specifications prepared forthe rcrk by Van Doren-ila zard-Stallings, Inc., Engineers-Arch i te cti-p1a nne rs,for the following prices.
P-1
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@ 3.@ EA
I
Site Gradi no (con tinued )
18" RCP
18' Conc End Section
RIP RAP
Seedinq
Dike Cons t ruction
Geotextile Fabric
GranuLar BorroH
18" c!!P
18'Metal End Section
lype 'A" Baff1e
Moc( E,)€xvAflo{ C
72 r,F 0 r1.oo tF
2EA g 1?3.co EA
43
SITE GRADITE IUIAL
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il
CTANHASSEN CITY COUN-CIL
REGUIAR MEETING
APRrL 11, 1988
l,layor Hamilton called the nreeti ng to order.
Pledge to the E lag.
COUNCILME}IBERS PRESENI :
Johnson
the meeting vras oEEned with the
Counci lman Ceving, Councj Iman Boyt and Counci lman
APPRo\AL oF AGEIIDA: councilman ceving nrcved, r.rayor Hamilton seconded toapproyg the agenda as presented with the addition by Counci Iman Bolt of acitywide trash pick-up urder council presentation. ALl voted in fivor arxlmotion carried.
coNsENT AGB{DA: }'!ayor Hami rton moved, @unci lman ceving seconded to approvethe following conseot agenda i tens pursuant to the City f,tarnger, srecomendations:
I
a. Condj.tional Use ttsrmit Atproval for Food Eocessing Facilities aftiSite Plan Revien for tbGtynn Bakeries.
c. First Readjng of Rezoning, Subdivjsjon and Wetlard Alteration permit
Approval for Minnewashta }4eadoirs, Gary e.arlson.
1. Resolutj on *88-28: Mj.nnewashta tEadows Subdj.vision petitj.onfor public Improvqnent Eile No. gg-2.
e. Resolutj.on ii88-29: Cable television, Request to Transfer O{nership.
f. Resolution *88-36: City HaU Expansion:
1) Approval of plans and Str=cif j.cat j.ons
2) Authorj.ze Bids3) Approve Archi.tectural Agre€rnent
S. Accounts payable dated April 11, IgBg
i. City @uncj.l Mj nutes dated t,tarch 2g, 1988planni ng Conrnission Mj.nutes dated l,larch 16, Iggg
All voted in favor and motion carri.ed.
CONSEIII AGMIDA: (B) STJBDIVISION AND I-{ETTAND ALTERATION PERMIT APPRO\AL, IAKERItEy tJooDS souTH, GEORGE NELSoN ASSOCIATES.
Barbara Dacy: It's obv j.ous from the staff update that [{e qEntd to follow up
on the street connection Jssue regardi.ng this subdivision with the adjacentsubdivision to the v,est. fhaE bej n9 creat plains colf Estates. tarry Brown
L
COUItrILME1BERS ABSmtT: Counci Iman Horn
srArF PREsBrr: Don Ashrrorth, Barbara Dacy, rarry Brown, Lori sietsqna ardRoger l(rtutson
{l_
V'
Jo Ann Olsen and
i tems .
Conrad: Do we needincrement district
Brown: yes .
anything in our motion that refersbeing approved by City Council? Is
FACILITIES FOR MCGLYNN BAKERIES ONPARK AND LOCATED IN THE SOUTHWEST
to the taxthat important?
,'o
planning Commission Meeting
March 16, 1988 - page 62
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT EOR EOOD PROCESSING FACILITIES IL27,AOqFOR MCGLYNN BAKERIES, ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFEICELOCATED IN THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF TH 5 AND AUDUBON ROAD
AND
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR FOOD PROCESSING
PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFE'ICECORNER OF TH 5 AND AUDUBON ROAD.
SQ. FT)
PARK AND
Larry Brown presented the staff report on these two
Chairman Conrad opened up the meeting for the public hearing.
Mark Koegrer: Not surprisingly the length of our presentation has beenshrinking- Let *u j::i rntr5air"" ine-l6opr" r./ho are here and rhen werrehere to respond to any questions th;a ;;" might have. First of all forthe record .m Mark Koegrer with vanDoien, Hazard & starrings and with mefrom our firm is Bob selrers. our ..i"-i" ;;;-;;.jJ;"i.^pio,""aplanners, engineers and r.andscap" ui"i,it..t.. The architectural firmthatrs involved in the project i= i;a;;;, Leach a LindsErom. DickErickson on the end and- Ji; i; $"-;;;i: Borh are very famiriar rrith rhebuilding aspeets and will aaaress tnor" -qu"stion..
I guess Iast but notreast, certainly not.least_f.o* o"i-'poini. of view i" oii-"iiunt. MichaelMcGIynn who is presidenr of ucCfvnn iu[".i".. Mi.;;"i-;.";".yknoe'redgable, olviously with ur"i""."-"Jpects. r think bet$reen arr of us$re can cerEainrv f ie_td any. questions you-might ir.".l-"ir"iJ,],u rir.u:X#l;t.fi::ririiation o., ir," arboretuir noad rhins, r....i.inry can
El1 son :
easy to
Irm
read
the
and
same !ray. I
understand.
don't have anyI like it too.
questions. I thought it vras
retail outlet sofire J-ane, was
Batzli: I just want to knowf. can.buy rolIs. A questionthat in your condition 5? Do
if they're going to have ator Larry, was the 12 footyou have that?
Headra moved, Emminqs. seconded to cl.se the public hearing. Arr voted infavor and motion cairied. trr" pruii""i...rng was closed.
Emmings: I love it. welcome to Chanhasaddition t" ou.-""*.uniry. r'"" g".";I-i[l;.rj.ll'"l,i."irjli..i,BI"if
-l
o
planning Commission MeetingHarch 16, 1988 - page 63
Michael Mcclynn:
nicknamed as the
Possibly there
exploded proof are i. tems on
wiri.ng.
(t
the market such as what's
7
Brown: That was addressed by the public Safety.
Batzli: So the second sentence in condition 5...
Olsen: Should be removed and it should state that the level 2sprinkring, that it shour-d provide rever : sprinkling system throughoutthe bui ld ing .
Batzli: I dontt have any other questions.
Headla: On your bulk storage of flour and sugar, do you require specialwiring seritches?
Michael Mcclynn: Eor the bulk sugar?
Headla: For the bulk flour.
Michael Mcclynn: Different type of wiring?
Headla: If t.here is bulk flour, the first thing I think about isexplos i ons .
-{\Headla: Now, if they need that, are our inspectorsknow $rhat to look for and work with the customer on
Bro!,rn: We can certainly add it to a condition.
Olsen: It will have to neet State Code.
trained?
tnl.s?
Do they
thi s !,rould
ass r gnment
Headla: Okay, and our inspector can, hers trained in? To mebe special that he hasnrt done before in Chanhassen.
Brown: At present we have a mechanical inspector on temporarythat can probably do that, yes.
Headla: Okay, so vre can do that andlandscaping. I didnrt see anything
some of the things they develop.
Mark Koegler: Any of their specific
them. Mark, you had theour landscape Arboretum,
work
!here
wi th
wi th
hybr id s?
Headla: Right. We went Ehrough that earlier.
Conrad: Four hours ago Mark we were on that subject.
Headla: They've deveroped so many beautiful Ehings and when I drive bythere and r rook at the whore southwest bank, r think $rhat a beautifurplace for that. Thatrs all I have. I wanted to know. Do you have anyother chemicals that are going to be used in there?
a
Commj.ssion Meeting
1988 - Page 64
o
C h
tng
L6,
Michael Mcclynn: Other than the standard baking ingredients?
l'lichaer Mcclynn: There certainry are chemicars used in creaning. Notmany of them are hazardous typesi our sanitatio., p.opi"-lil t.ainea inthe use of hazardous chemicai! Uot ,"-n.". very fei ii our iacility.
Headla: What kind of hazardous chemicals?
Michael Mcclynn: The caustic creaning chemicals or maybe the grease fromour donut frying operation or sometniig 1ike that.
Headla: I,m not su rethere any par ticularor cleaning?
HeadLa:
thing.
MichaeL Mcclynn: yes.probably not the same astheir proximity to food.
what I s standard. you havechemicals that will be used
flour and sugar but arethere for either baking
Thatrs what you're referring to nore just a clean_up type of
In fact
what a
the chemical s
layman would.
tha t
For
we
us
call
it,s arehazardous
because of
Brown: r think if you go upstairs in the coffee room of city Har.l,{ there's a raber of hazaioous ciremicars that we u"e-iortin"ry and they,ve\ been tabered hazardous i""t t"""r"e they do pose u t.ru.a if misused. rtcovers a wide range. I understand your concern and I think that apossibre area for storage oa-"o*u-"oat of addressing of this matter maybe necessary not knowini wtrat .t"*j""f= they are storing.
HeadLa: your11 look at that t.hen?
Brown: We can, yes.
:::t1d: Okay Larry, rel1 me vrhat rax incremenrour proposal at this. time? .I guess t,m reatlyaffecEs this particular motion:---- ' '"
district haslost in terms
do $ri th
hor"/ tha t
to
of
Brown: First.rr explain that the tax increment district wirr aI10w thefuture access road th]t ,"" .r,orn"in'Ifr" pt"n= t" ;"-;;;;;ructed and thenthose assessments may be put uguin=t it" p.op".ty and waived due to thetax increment disrrict-- i-;";ii;";;.;i'Ehink we need to qet into rhenuts and bolts of the increment iistrict.. Hor./ever, r ifriiX Brian workedout an acceptable statement u" f;;-;;^;ction being taken on this.OLsen: ff you want, iarL Koegler can explain it to you.
Mark Koegler: ,o". Il1i:g on everything is. never perfecr and rhis is agood example. on February 2zod aE q.1o'r" had.to.have plans in. At 7:30EhaE night the councir -"i .rJ-o."iiui"tn.e this is a good candidaEe fora Eax incremenr sire- rhe only i;;;;; inua hu", Eirsr of atl ir has normPact on the =i." i:::lf. .*ni..ii"i.p."t it has is on rhe form of theaccess. What r.re've proposed right .nor"'i= t,,e 22g foot, what vre,vernternalry calLed " iroiiri"a-;;t;";;;.' ,.," a 3G foot r^,ide ciry streer
laoo rng
o
Commission Meeting
19 88 - Page 55
o
atc h 16,
{
Michael Mcclynn: No.
7
really but r^re weren'E proposing to dedicate it. rnitially it was beingbuilt as a driveway thinking that when the property is plitted later,that wourd be dedicated as public street, it erourd be added to serve thebalance of_the property. when the discussion of the upgrading of AudubonRoad came into play, that was the ner", wrinkle at kind of the 11th hourand as I said, a decision had to be made at the time the plans wereturned in. So this assumes that Audubon Road, if itrs going to beupgraded, is simply going to be probably an overlay. f['s i 7 ton Eoadnorr. It would maybe go to a 9 ton. That's still a vj.able option. Theother alternative that's being addressed is to put in a fuII urbansection street. Curb and gutter, street tighting and so forth andimprove that entire stretch from probably TH 5 down to the railroadtracks. If that's done, certainly some of the utilities along that sameright-of-way corridor as well as the entry road as Larry outlined, couldbe part of the tax increment project as weII which coutd be a public
improvement projecE at that point done by the city and assessed back tothe property rather than a pEivate improvement project that rre.re Iookingat right nor.r. So it really is simply an issue of r^/ho's going to be doingwhat. Mcclynnrs management has been neeting with Don on several
occasions and is totally cooperative with whatever the City lrants topursue in that regard. It's just a matter of not knowing tonight how thetax increment issue is going to sort out. Either way, the access is thesame. Itrs a matter of who does it and who pays for it.
Conrad: Thank you Mark. Thatrs a little bit clearer. okay, now Larry,you tell me what that. has to do with the site plan. Although I
understand what Mark just said, do we still need that contingency in here
thaE this site plan is basically approved giving the tax increment?
Brown: we can condiEion that if the City Council creates a cax increment
district for this area, that the proposed access, ln.e 229 foot access, be
extended to the $rest to the future driveway as shown on page 2 of theplans dated Eebruary 22, L989.
Olsen: Just to further explain our reason for that, and correct me if
Irm wrong, is because that extension would also be partially paid for by
the tax increment district and we would prefer to have that.
Batzli: The proposed added condiLion would be that in the event the
currenE tax incremenE district is approved by City Council, then the
applicant shall submit plans to the City Engineer for approval for future
roadway access to the westerly parking lot access.
Headla: There's not going to be any retail out of this is there?
Emmings moved, Conrad seconded that the Planning Commisison recommend
approvaL of Conditional Use Permit #88-2 to allow a food processing plant
in the IOp Distri.ct with the following condi.tion:
o
Commissioo l,lee t i ng
1988 - Page 66
O
'aOO rng
rch I6,
1 Any expansion of the foodconditional use permit.
processing plant would require another
AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Batzli moved, Ellson seconded that the pranning commission recommendapproval of Site plan *88-3 as shown on the plan stamped "ReceivedFebruary 22, L988,' with the following conditions:
1. The three Hackberrys proposed along the west side of Audubon Roadshall be replaced $rith three evergreens at lesat 5 feet in height.
2. Additional evergreens, at least 6 feet in height, shal.l be locatedalong the easterly boundary of the Iarge employees parking 1ot.
3. One addit.ionaL handicapped parking space shall be provided.
4.
t
LS.
An elevation of the easterly berm and landscaping used to screen theeasterry trucking area sharr be submitted for staff approval prior toissuance of a building permit.
Fire hydrants sharl be installed completery around the building and300 feet apart. Level 3 sprinkling system shall be provided
t.hroug ho u t. t.he building.
The developer sha]1 enter into a developmenE contractand provide adequate financial- sureties to guaranteeinstaLlation of these improvements.
5
7
8
9
with the
proper
Ci ty
Wood fiber blankets or equivalent shall bedisturbed slopes greater than 3:1.
ut i 1i zed to stabi.lize alI
Plans and specifications for the construction of thewatermain, storm ser,rer and sanitary servlces shall beapproval by the City Engineer prioi to the f j.nal site
All erosion control measures shall be in ptace prior to Eheconmencement of any grading and once in place shall remain in placethroughout the duration of construction. The deveroper is reqiiredto review erosion control periodically and make the -necessary repairsPromptl-y. AIl of the erosion control measures shall remain intaituntiL an established vegetative cover has been produced, at whichtime removal shall be the responsibility of the developer.
The applicant sbarr obtain permits and compry with alr conditionsfrom the DNR; irl6ts65hed Disirict and any other appropriate regulatoryagency.
saoitary sewer,
submitted forplan rev iew.
In the event that theCity Council, then theEngineer for approvalparking lot access .
current tax increment district isapplicant shal1 submit plans tofor future roadway access to Ehe
approved bythe Ci ty
wes Eer I y
1r.
o
{
o
Planning Commission Meet i ngMarch 16, 1988 - page 67
12. The City will acceprfoot trail easement
ded ication fees .
AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Emmings moved, Headla seconded to adjournfavor and motion carried. tt. *".iiig-ir.
Submitted by BarbaraCity eI anner
park dedication fees_in lieu of parkland t a 26along the wesr side of Audubon noIJ-uia"i.utr
the meet i ng .adjourned at
A11 voted in
12:50 a.m..
Dac y
Prepared by Nann Ophe i m
{
McGLYNN BAKERTES - Revised Receiving/Bulk Delivery Area
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I.AND DEVEEOP!{ENT APPLICATION
CITY OF CE,ANEASSBT
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55312(612) 937-1900
Mcc1,.nn BakerieAPPLICANT :
ADDRESS 7752 ltitchelt Road
s, Inc.OI{NER:
ADDRESS
Same
Eden Prairie MN 55344
Zip Code zip CodeTELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQTIEST:
gj 7 -94n.!TELEPHONE
x
x
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appea1
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Land Use plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch pJ.an
_ Preliminary plan
_ Final plan
Subdi vi s ion
Plat t in9
Metes and
Street/Eas ement
Wetlands Pelmit
Bounds
Vacat i on
PROJECT NAMf, McGll,nn Bakerie S
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION Industrial
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION No chanse
PRESENT ZONING Industrial off ie e Park District (IOP)
SIZE OF PROPERTY 6 acre9 -1
LOCATION Southwest uadrant - Audubon
REASONS FOR THIS REOUEST DEVC1O new fac il it
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach 1e9a1 if necessary ) see arrached
-
x_
REQUESTED ZONING No chanse .
USES PROPOSED Bakerv planr. Offices and Warehotse
This application must be completed in futl anrt ha !r,-^,._: L!,crearri'pii;;;'^J;"."st ue iccom;";iJ,li :li ffr:IH:IIil.ilu".prans required bv r.,pt_icabie*;;i;t;;ilrnce provisions. Beforefiling this applic.tion, you shoirld confer with the City plannerro cterermine the soecific-orainai;; ;;;-p.""eclural requiremenrsapplicable to your application .
-.'-- -"-
City
Land
Page
FILING INS TR UCT ION
FTI,IN CERT IF TC ATION:
Signed By
Signed By
of Chanhassen
Developnent Application
2
The undersibned reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is iamiliai *iu.-trr.-ir;;.;;;uit..qulrenenrs ofapplicable City Ordinances.
certifiesalI
(Dare G/o-tr
The undersigned hereby_ certi f ies . that the applicant:::::ii:;: ro make Ehis appric"ri"r-i"r.,the properry
App 1i can
L
Fee Own
has been
herei n
d-/o - taDat e
Date Application
Applicati.on Fee
City Receipt No.
Recei ved
Pai.d
be
and
cons idered
Appeal.s at
by the
thei r
Thi s -6ppllqation wiIIEoard oE Ad j us tmen tsmeeLlng.
Planning Commission,/
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 6, 1988
Chairman Conrad called the meetj ng to order at 7:30 p.m
MEMBERS PRESENT: Tim Erhart, Steven Emmings, AnnetteBrian BatzIi, James Wildermuth and David Headla
El1son, Ladd Conrad,
STAFF PRESENT: Barbara Dacy,
City Planner and Larry Brown,
City elanner; Jo Ann Olsen, Asst.Asst. City Eng j neer
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
SUBIDIVISION OF 2.38 ACRES INTO 2 SINGLE FAMILY
ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY
MANOR ROAD, MARY SCHUMACHER.
LOT S
AND
AND.74
AT 2841
oF I.64
LOCATED
ACRES
NO.
Public Present:
Name
John and Mary Schumacher
Address
284I No. Manor Road
any comments?
no comments.I think it's appropriate.
was curious about the shed. Do we usually do that? Not
Conrad:
Enrnings:
EIIson:
Batzli:
r emove
Steve,
I have
Di tto .
I just
it?
Batzti: Is that just as
grandfather these things
course, we normally kjnd ofa matter of
ln?
Olsen: A lot of Eimes there's conditions that they have to removetheyrre in bade-shape, they have to remove it upon building permit
cati-on for that Lot.
them if
appl i -
Batzli: But thatrs usually handled then when there,s a bu j.lding permitfor that 10 t?
olsen: If it's somethj.ng that we want to be removed.
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report.
Chairman Conrad called the public hearing to order.
Emmings moved, Batzli seconded to close the public hearing. A1l voted infavor and the motion carrieil. The public hearing was closed.
Olsen: It has been done, yes.
Planning Comm i ss ion
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
2
Batzli: I donrt have any other comments.
Conrad: Jim?
wi ldermuth: No .
Conrad: Dave?
Headla: No.
Emmings moved, BatzIi seconded that the planning Commission recommendapproval of Subdivision Request #88-15 as shown on the plat stamped
"Received June 8, 1988" and subject to the following condition:
1. Lot 2, Block 1 shall be responsible for paying appropriate lateralassessments for sewer and water when connected if not arready paid.
AI1 voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
SUBDrvrSroN oF 1.3 AcREs rNTo 2 STNGLE FAMTLY LorS oF Ls,qga SQUARE FEETAND ONE OUTLOT ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY LOCATEDTHE NORTHEAST CORNER OF WEST 77TH STREET AND FRONTIER TRAIL, VIRGIL
SCHLOTTE.
Publ ic Presen t :
Name Address
AT
AIice Schlotte
James and Arlene Zimmerman
Ross and cigi Su l1ivan
Bonnie MihaL ko
Ted and Kathy DeLancy
Rt. l, Co ka to
76A2 Fxooti er Trai I
7522 Exonti er Trail
222 77th Street west
7505 Frontier Trai.1
Jo Ann Olsen presented
Chairman Conrad cal led
staff report.
public hearing to order.
the
the
conrad: Do you thing that there is evidence that the appricant courdbring in that vrourd make staff comfortabre with the buiiiabiLity of ahe1ot? .you're saying one good arternative is to get ."i" - inior.ui;. on to-give it a chance.
orsen: rt r.rourd show us the amount of fill that would be required and howsteep the. driveways wourd be with the whore lot. rt wourd show drainage;and_new_ drai-nage patterns and itrs just werre more comfortable seeing tnJt'now than conditioning approvar on receipt of those because once itis a
Planning CommissionJuly 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
3
Iot, you canrt deny a house being located on j.t.
Alice Schlotte3 How hrould we do it? There is a house on the one lot.
What we're trying to do, we $rould like to make three lots. If nothingelse, we'd like it at least to be tvro lots because $re want to sell thtthouse with retaining the other two.
Conrad: Staff is telling us that, and those of us who visited it, it's adifferent l"ot from a buil,dability standpoint. It,s a tough lot to buildon and theyr re asking for more inf ormatj.on. We have some choices heretonight that can be to basically table the item right now and have you
work with staff some more. If you reaal the staff report, they basicallysaid itrs not, and maybe I,m reading this, I'II have to look at the wordsagain, but theyrre not real comfortable with the site as a bu j.lding
Iocation and possibly, if they got more information, they might be able to
recommend to us that we allow the subdivision. As the applicant, wouldyou J,ike to see us go forward tonight without that information and Eherersa good chance without that information werre going to be kind of negativeon it but at least you get your hearing here and you get to move it toCity Council. That's what it does for you. Hor.rever, without theinformatj.on therers a great likelihood that City Council will also tableit or turn it down. I guess itrs up to you. we can do it a couple ways
and it's really our decision on how $re want to do it but I guess Itmasking you right now how you would prefer to handle this. I guess it's mystrong recom-,nenda t i on that we table it and that you work with staff tohelp them get more information. A better handle on the subdivision. Moreinformation so they can possibly give us the feeling that jt js a piece ofproperty that is subd ividable.
Alice Schlotte: Of course, our ultimate wish would be to go into threeIots but I can understand your feeling on that. ...to approve the plat
with a condition and of course no building could ever take place without
approval anyway but we'd like to seII the house separate from the other
two lots. That's what we kind of are counting on. wetre just kind of
stuck because we canrt move... of course, like I say, no building can
take place anyvray until it was all approved. Your soil, and alL of that so
basically we're working on tonight is the house. The lot that has the
house on it. To get that away from the other two.
Conrad: Jo Ann, as she says, she'll merge Lot 2 in with the oulot. You
still probably have some of the same concerns.
olsen: we would just like to see what the impact of making that lot into
a buildable tot will be for the surrounding areas of that lot. We wouldjust be more comfortable than seeing that now. once again, if it is
created as a separate lot, itrs a buildable lot.
Conrad: Did you hear what Jo Ann olsen said? she said even if you merge
the outlot with the second Iot, staff sti lI has the same concerns with thebuiLdability and clear cutting and fiII for a second house. They really
are still not comfortabLe. Even Ehough werve taken care of the outlot
problem, $re stitl have the buildability problern of the second lot.
Planni.ng CommissionJuly 6, 1988 - Page
MeeLrng
4
Alice Schlotte: I{e have no plans for a house on that. We would becomfortable just letting that stay until maybe other things can... We
vrould just like to get it divided off of the house right now.
Conrad: When we do that though, it's like when r^re altow the subdivision,it's like saying a house can go there. It's like yourve met ourordinance. rt's terring you or a future purchaser that the city believesa house realry can 90 there and right at this point in time, steff has notmade that commitment. They have not been able to justify it yet. Withmore information, they might be able to but right now they,r"-saying, justsplitting off a rot as a commitment to the future buyer that ctrantraisensays it's a buildable lot and we havenrt made that commitment yet.
Alice Schlotte: Of course it has to be, anyone that purchased thatproperty would have to get a buirding permit and bring that 10t up to parto do that so I donrt see...
Conrad: Building permit looks at different things thanat right now. They're more technical in some respects.have us go through the public hearing process and hearbased on your choice of merging the lots together?
Alice Schlotte: I think so.
what werre J-ooking
Would you li ke to
rdha t r,re have to say
Conrad: Itrs a public hearing.proposal?Are there any comnents on this particular
James zimmerman: r rive at 7Gq2 Frontier Trail which is right across thestreet from this proposed site. First of arr, this rand weire speaking ofis very undesirable rand as far as building anything on it. rhai's myfirst concern. A second concern is Fronti6r riail in the past few yeirsthat Irve lived there has been kind of a unique situation isithhaving.. -trees and things like that. t wourd- rike to see this land justleft as is without any buirding... Arso, the tady from the city *"='---talking about drainage and the adjoining home sitiation. We have ahorrendous drainage probrem where we liie right now. Although Irve got itdraining down from our property, ...directly across in thj_s area and ifthat would have an effect on our land or noi, I really don,t know butthere. is definitely a drainage problem. It'i existini presentfy. I,mspeaking for myserf and my wife. There's probably riie'tamiries that liveright on Frontier in. that area and adjac"ni to tnit p.op"ity. There,sanother family here but none of them lre interested in iraving this thinghappen...
Alice Schrotte: Do you understand werre_not going for a building permit?Werre not talking about building on that land.
Ross Sullivan: I tive at 7522, rjght next to Lhese people. Mayber. missed something here_ but r thou;ht when you first stirted talking aboutthis you were talking about crear iutting tie p..p"i tv -"-j*ilav
i n9 a zofoot setback or a 30 foot setback. what are we setting back if i.retre notgoins to build anvthing and r"rhv wourd r" ue cuiti;;-t;;";-;;wn if rhey'renot going to build anything?
Planning ComrnissionJuly 6, 1988 - page
Meeting
5
conrad: once we alrow a subdivision, when we alrow a subdivisi.onthe Ci.ty, which is basically werre splitting a lot here, it meanssecond lot is buirdabre. Right now we,re not convinced. rf theythis lot out and say we're not going to build anything, it doesn'tbecause sooner or later somebody's going to want to buird that andnow, r.vhen we subdivide we have to apply our subdivision...
through
that the
separate
ma t terright
Ross Sull ivan: you,re approvingis that what yourre saying?
this for building by dividing this off,
Conrad: Yes. We have to apply our subdivisionparticular piece of property assuming that it,sassuming that it's not going to be turned intothat.
rm not proposing what they do with their property but Imy house because it was in the woods and it just kind ofthe country so I guess to put a house across Ehe streetcut all the trees down would make me very unhappy.
ordinance to thisgoing to be built anda park or something like
Ross Sullivan: Ipersonally boughtin a city but in
from my house and
Arrene zimmerman, 7692 Eronti.er Trail: r wourd like to see this stay asnaturar habitat for the owr. rt's absolutery a wonderful prace for birdsat least through the fierd, not for a house. r wourd love to see it staythat way because therers so much building going on anyway and the landgets less and ress it's natural. one of the beauti es of Frontier Trair isto drive dorrn that part where you don't see a house for 2g feet from theroad. Itrs a beautiful area. It provides a lot of shade and I also wouldlike clarified exactly how many lots you,re speaking of. She's speakingof a Iot with a house to be divided and then she's speaking of two morelots. Yourre speaking of the house and the lot and one more lot and anoutlot. How many lots specifically is she speaking of?
Conrad: The request that came in tonight was to split off one additional1ot and then to designate an outlot besides that one additional lot.Thatrs the request that's in front of us.
Arlene Zimmerman: Is that a possibility of two lots to be built upon?
Conrad: Possibly. The staff is saying that the second lot, the outlot,
would be extremely difficult to bujld upon. There may be something in thefuture that could happen to make it buildable. The staffrs recommendationis, a possibility is to merge the outlot with the number one Iot to besplit off and just call that one parcel and have us react to whether wefeel that that should be allowed as a subdivision with a whole series ofconditions. So hre could grant that subdivision but have a variety ofconditions that would relieve some of the concerns that we may have withthat property and maybe some that you may have also.
James Zimmerman: Can you define the difference between a lot and anoutlot? I reaJ-ly don't know.
Planning CommissionJuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeti ng
6
O1sen: Legally there is no difference. An outlot can still be deemed asa buildable 1ot.
James Zimmerman: So werre really talki_ng two lots.
OIsen: Yes, techn ical Iy.
Batzli: There is a definition in the City Ordinance. Itrsto be developed for use which rdill not involve a building orreserved for future replatting or development.
a platted lot
which is
I don I t
Iands.
James zinmerman: Thank you. If she's concerned about selling theexisting house, that house sits on a fairly nice lot just as is.see why theyrd have any problem selling thaE regarding these other
Alice Schlotte: It's got to be divided from that lanal .
Ellson: She has to se1l that house along with the whole land.
Alice Schlotte: We,d like to just break that piece off.
Bonnie Mihalko, 222 77th street: My husband isnrt here right now but ourconcerns are with trees because in our backyard is thick with trees andhrer re concerned about what we'd be rooking it it ttris is divided. elso,werve had drainage problems like these people and werre concerned if thereis firl brought in, it would have to be exlensive from what we're lookingat- .we're wondering where exactry the run-off is going to be and thut oirIot-is going to be the run-off. ihat would Ue som6tniig that vre don,treally want. We dontt want to be run-off for this othei place. Also,q/e're concerned that our lot is going to become one lot bicause our househas to be sold just like their house is. We don't know...and thatrspretty much the same. r guess that,s our concerns. Mostly the trees inthe backyard and what we'd be rooking at. rf we'd be rooking at anotherhouse being back up to ours,...it's ieally not what *" *oriJ'fif".
Erhart moved, wirdermuth seconded Eo crose the public hearing. Ar1 votedin favor and the motion carried. The public heiring w". cLo."A.
Headra: Larry, whatrs this,.two neighbors have talked about drainageprobrems. when r looked at it, it seemed to have a nice berm on FrontierTrail. when r rooked over the edge, r couldnrt see ""v...u"t where.s thissevere drainage problem come from? or do you agree there is a drainageproblem there?
Brown: r wourd agree that rdha t rrve seen and whatrs been shown on thepran_would support that therers a drainage problem there. your plan sholrsa curvert right no$, that exists under Fr6nti". t.uii -".,J',rniorto.ratery,
asrrve been tord and as the document shows in v."i-pi"xIil iiir has beenbrought in. r rrent out searching to find thi end'.i tni"-"irvert becausethis end $ras unrecoverable. Thi; fitr had been placed over that, at leastto the best of mv knowledge from vrhere r courd telr the location had beendue to the existing topogiaphy. Right now extending off this drae, and
Planning Commi ssionJuly 6, 1988 - page
Meeting
7
over on this side, the water, the drainage comes from this direction andnormally before the fill had been placed, vrould have flowed through thisculvert and down a main drainageway. Now recently Itve been hearing the
same complaints as wetve heard this evening anil my belief, at Ieast theinformation that I have, is that because this culvert is plugged i^ri th thefi11, it may be obstructing the natural drainage path that did occurbefore that fill was placed. I know one of the gentlemen back here, atleast I talked to some of the neighbors, he's in this drainage path andhas complained that this area has backed up in the past so to the best ofmy knowledge, that's the drainage probJ-em that now exists.
Headla: Thanks. I didnrt agree with that. I didn't see the pipe. Ifthis went through, whors responsibility or would somebody have to openthat up? I assume that would be a condition. Who would pay for that?
Bror.rn:
Headla:
That
And
would be at
that would
the developerrs expense.
go under the property if the house went in there?
Brown: I guess that will be part of the questions that you resolve by astructural engineer or another engineer. There,s obviously severaloptions to it. They can reroute iE in either direction if they care to.
Headla: The reason I was interested in that drainage and I really lookedat it, therers a severe grade there and to start f il,ling, and I havent t
seen anythj.ng of what they plan to do but I can just see that house
walking down the bank in 10-15 years. Just an inch and if itrs in thewintertime, the people have a mess and the village has a mess. f guessjust with that steep grade and no other information, I canrt vote in favor
of this.
Wildermuth: That culvert does not have an easement associated with it,
r ight?
Brown: To the best of my knowledge no.
wildermuth: So technically the property is not in violation of anything
by placing fill over the exit of that with an easement? If therers no
dedicated easement?
Brown: Because theyrre blocking the natural drainage Path, I might think
otherwi se.
Wildermuth: But it wasnr E natural before that culvert was placed.
Brown: True but you are creating an upstream problem.
Wildermuth: The point is, without an easement, the culvert could be
relocated. It could go somewhere el-se without a dedicated easement.
sympathize with the property owner in trying to split Lot l from Lotthe outlot but it almost appears as though the original plot r^ras set
because, especial-ly the outlot area would be unbuildable lrithout a
variance and I think it would be difficult to get a variance to set
I
2 and
up
the
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeti ng
8
house 20 feet rather than the 30 feet. If the Cityfoot setback, the chances are probably good that ifin there to get the proper elevation for the house,holes would fill would not be contained on the lot.into the adjoining property.
would require the 30you placed enough f illthe angle that theIt would spill over
Conrad: Is that DeLancey I s?
Wildermuth: Yes. I guess I would not be inclined to support this.
Batzli: I agree with Jimrs comments except I donrt know that I would sayr woul-d not be incrined to sprit it. r guess what r'd like to see is havearr the neighbors come up and buy it from the owner. r think that wouldmake everybody happy but r think that rrtl rike to see more information onr^rhether this lot could be buildabre and r would rike to see it tabled.
Ellson: I have nothing new to add.
Emmings: I have a question onthis property is a long skinny,Is that your lot?
the map that came in the packet, you saidrrhat appears to be a 10t. Is that a lot?
Enmings: So your lot runs the fuII length of this property just toeast of it? I basically go along with the comments thit hive beendonrt think rretve got enough information to approve or deny it andwe ought to table it so they can get more information into us.
Erhart: Let me ask you this,subdivision is because of the
Wildermuth: Not the slope but the amount of fill required.
Headla: ?hatts by far the major reason but Frontier Trailcharacter and to reduce that setback from 3g to ZO feet, Iitrs fair to the rest of these people.
Bonnie Mihalko: yes.
Erhart: Okay, but are we being
Batzli: Thatls $rhere they show
is the only reason that you're against theslope? Jim or Dave?
the
made. I
I think
has a
don ' t
Iot of
think
asked to reduce the setback here?
a house.
Wildermuth: If Lot 2 vras split off and sol-din with a proposal to build on it, that wouldwould go after undoubtedly is a variance-
separately and somebody camebe the first thing they
Erhart: over the years and even before r was on this pranning commission,rrve seen a number of subdivisions come in with a srope and ii seems to methe generar conclusion was and r even heard some of oi:r p.""i""--ingi"""i-peopLe say essential.ly that you can build a house on any slope and make itstructuraLLy safe. My comments are that that would not be a reason that rwould vote against a subdivision. That is not a varid a"u"o., to voteagainst it, r wourd also agree that $re shourd not arlow a variance for the
Planning Commission
JuLy 5, 1988 - Page
Meeting
9
setback. That it should
had in developing.
conform to the same rules that the neighbors have
Conrad: I srouldn't feel good about sending this to City Council even witha negative vote. I think from a property owner, to give this a chance,there should be more information to staff. I have to treat staff likeexperts in this case and the experts who knori far more technicalinformation than I do are saying donrt go for this one until we get moreinformation and it's just that cut and dry for me. I think it,s to yourbenefit that we would table this. very possibly there might not be lheinformation that would allow the subdivision but on the oiher hand, it'sthe only thing that's going to get the subdivision through in my mind is alittle bit more information so city staff can dear with the probrem but ragree that the position on the lot is going to significantly change theenvironment with clearcutting that wilr have to be done. rrm not for thevariance that vrould grant it croser to the road. r think the firl wirlroII over to the next property and I guess I just see a lot of problemswith this particular parcel. I'd like to see some answers. sometechnical information so at thj.s point in time, rather than turning it
down and passing it forward to City Council, I think it's to everybody'sbenefit to table this and have the applicant work with the staff to tryand give us a little bit more information on what would happen to thisplan. Is there a motion?
Headla moved, Wildermuth seconded
shown on the plat dated 'rJune 13,in favor and the moti.on carried.
to table the prel-jminary plat *88-16 as
1988" for more information. Al1 voted
PUBLIC HEARING:
SUBDIVISION OE I.56 ACRES INTO 2 SINGLE FAMILY
SOUARE FEET ON PROPERTY ZONED RSE, RESIDENTIAL
AT 3505 RED CEDAR POINT ROAD, GEORGE WAY, JR.
LOTS OF 19,421 AND 52,854
SINGLE FAMILY AND LOCATED
Public Present:
Name
Claudette and
Robert l{ay
Tom and KathyLori Lobitz
George Way, Jr.
Parad i se
3695
3605
37 55
3720
Point
Point
Po int
Point
Drive
Drive
Drive
Drive
Address
Red
Red
Red
Red
Cedar
Cedar
Cedar
cedar
Barbara Dacy presented
Chairman conrad caI I ed
staff report.
public hearing to order.
the
the
George Way, Jr.: Itrs my motherrs 1and. My fatherbut he didn't quite comprehend what had been done Iso it can be more easily sold. We've had some...
had it divided before
guess.. .dividing it up
Planning CommissionJuly 6, 1988 - page
Meet ing
tg
Kathy Paradise: My name is Kathy paradise and this is my husband Tom. Welive next door. When- we bought our property which was actually bigger, itwas zoned singre family along this roop. By moving out here we moved outhere to get away from being closed in. we don't feet that the lot israrge enough to accomodate two homes and the area being as built up as itis, vle're concerned about over populating the area.
Bat zI i rnoved ,favor and the
Dacy: Lot 1 is
home is.
Emmings seconded
motion carried.to close the public hearing. AI1 voted in
The public hearing was closed.
Erhart: Has this been decided if Lot 1
proposed at L9,42]- square feet. Thatrs where the existing
Erhart: Lot 2, excuse me.
Erhart: Okay, so these
found in the area. Whatto Red Cedar point Road?
Dacy: Right
would be over
Emmi.ngs: Idivision.
and
an
the newly created lot
acre in size.would be 52,854 square feet so it
are
was
as big as t.he big lots thatthe reason for not putting are typica 1lya new driveway out
Dacy: Thatrs still an option. The applicant or a future2 could install this new driveway or improve the existing
Erhart: Okay, so it's just a matter of convenience?
Dacy: Yes.
Erhart: And thatis not a problem with us?
Dacy: No.
Iot ogrner of Lot
one .
donrt have any nore comments. It seems Iike an appropriate
Ellson: I think the size of the lots arelake area. I think it,s a good split.good sized especially for this
Batzri: r guess in visiting it r was surprised to see how big it rearlyvras- rn speaking with at least one of the neighbors in there] rris oniy-concern $/as that the roadway be maintained as it was so they have ."""i,IgT !t" current people who live on the south end of the proierty and Ithink he's going to be the one thatrs most affected by ii. r r^ra s kind ofconcerned because it rooked s\,rampy down there and t a3ked him if ,r.. ,r"i-down there. He basicarly said tnlt tne previous owner had a garden down
!h:.: "lg it actuatly wasnrt swampland. That destroyed aIJ. my questionsand I think itrs appropriate.
Planning CommissionJuIy 6, 1988 - page
Meeti ng
t1
Wildermuth: I agree. I think the subdivision looks appropriate but inview of that ror", area there as you drive through, rrd tit<e in addition tothe staff recommendation, rrd like to see an easement, a drainage easementestablished where that corregated metal culvert is on our map.
Batzli: Wonrt that be wit.hin our easement? Our right-of-hray any$ray? Our50 foot cond ition.
Dacy: Yourre right, the 12 inch corregated roeta1 culvert.
If therers a 5g footWildermuth: Yes. Do $re need
easement, street easement?
anything additional?
Dacy: Right. The recommended size of the easement would
Headla: Where
Road?
$ras that 50 foot easement going to be? On
cover that area.
Red Cedar Point
Dacy: No, it would be Iocatedprobably a portion of Lot 1.
Headla: Okay, and thatrs going
Dacy: Right, it viill be locatedthe other properties begin with
Headla: Therers only one house
Dacy: No, therers four houses.
Claudette Way: But they 9o up
Headla: Yes, the Pierce house
Batzli: They rebuilt it.
Headla: Along Red Cedar Point
at a 11?
roughly on the westerly side of Lot 2 and
to take care of the people on the hiII?
do$rn to the southern property Iine wheretheir driveways.
up there now isntt there?
the hiII in the back.
burnt dovJn.
Road, did the Park Commission look at this
Dacy: Yes they did and they had no comments on this particular one.
Headla: They arenrt interested in having the road a Iittle wider, an
easement so people can ride or run or walk? That road is so narrow and ifpeople are parked there and you had to bring the fire trucks, it could bea terrible mess.
Dacy: If the Commission vrants to add that as a recommended condition forstaff to analyze, thatrs fine. To the best of my recollection, I don'tthink Red Cedar Point noad is on our overaLl Erail plan but if you feelthatrs important...
Headla: when I park my car on that road, people came awful close to me.
Planning Commi ss i on
July 6, 1988 - eage
Meet i ng
L2
Claudette way: Are you talking about Minnewashta parkway?
Headla: No, Red Cedar Point Drive. If there is any real emergency thatwhole place is just going to be a mess. I thought there would be some
Plans. Larry, rrhat do we do with that swale that's in there? Thedrainage. People can't fill, that in or if Ehey fill it in they have tohave a culvert or what happens? That's a natural drainage area.
Brown: If it's a drainage area, I don't thiok it would befor either one of the properties, either Lot 1or Lot 2 todrainage. If Lot 2 obstructs the drainage they're going tooverflow condition over the road anyway. theylre going todrainage and certainly Lot I could obstruct the drainage.
advantageous
obstruct thatget an
end up with the
Head1a: I eras thinking of the people to the east. If an v fill went in
then couldnrtthere at all and water couldit?run right down to Mr. Benton
Brolrn: I rm sorry, I
Tom Paradise: Onsoutheast corner.
the
guess I don't understand your question.
southeast corner and...and the drainage flows to the
Head1a: Itrs closefill in there, thencall a swamp here on
from that?
to the southeast. No$, if somebodyit could go onEo the neighbors and
thi s drawi ng . Do vre have any hray
eranted to put any
then into what theyto protec! people
Dacy: One of the conditions of approval iserosion control plan for a building permitsite, I think the most natural location forin front of the pines but you never know.would i{ant to Locate the house in the rear
that we get a drainage andfor Lot 2. In looking at thea building pad is goj.ng to be
There could be somebody thatof the lot.
Iooking
we wi 11 beto is
and again
Headra: rrm thinking like in r0 years. rf you look to the southeast withthe naturar drainage, r think peopre might be hesitant to put something inthere and r just wondered if we had any way to stop that? Not that itisnecessarily detrimental. r donr t i.rant to leave th;t but if someone r.rourdstart putting stuff there and then it would flow right into trre swamp irreninto Minnewashta.
Brordn: If I may make a suggestion, staff is going to have to beat this lot through the building permit application process andattentive to the drainageway. Tha other oition that you eludedmaybe l0 years down the line Lot 2 could possibly be iubdividedwe vrould be looking at that drainage.
Headla: So one way or another you...
conrad: r donit have any probrems with the subdivision. Although itrsnot as big a rot as maybe you'd rike to have, it certainry exceeds a lotof the current standards. A rot of us moved out here for rarger lots butagain, this particurar case, this is rarger than our standardi in the area
Planning Commiss ionJuly 5, 1988 - Page
Meeting
13
and I feel comfortable vrith the subdivision. Is there aso it meets tha t
motion?
Headla: Let
of you feel
r.{here there
bring up something just for discuss ion. How did the restyou went down that road? Did you feel uncomfortableso many people back there and it's narrowness?
Batzli: Are you talking about Red Cedar point?
Headla: Red Cedar point, yes.
me
when
are
Batzli: I looked in my rearview mirror as Istreet looking to turn into the driveway.
Emmings: It's been developed for so long andhodge podge anyvray, what can you do? I donrtapplication to straighten out that mess?
was idl ing there on the
it was put
know r,rhat
in such a
can do on thi s
fox 20 feeL.
star t
IN
you
Headla: If we start asking for like 2g feet.Maybe it should be 10 feet. I don't kno!, butsomePlace.
An easement
we I ve got to
Wildermuth: But to get it all the way.
HeadIa: It's just like. . . , youit by evolution. If you start
poss ibIe.
donrt get everything all atnow, eventually I think that
once butcould be
get
Erhart: You wanE to get a total of a
Road so you want 33 on this property?
now Barb?
66 foot easement on Red
Is that what you want?
Cedar
what
Pointis it
Dacy: Red Ced ar
vrhat
Point Road I believe
Erhart: So you I re saying if
40 feet.Headla: I guess that is
emergency vehicles?
Dacy: A typical city right-of-way is 50 feet. We could look at anadditional I0 feet to be dedicated to the Red Cedar point Road right-of-rray. That vrould give 30 on the south side and 2A on the north side. 56feet is adequate for the road surface plus an off-street sidewalk. Again,whether or not therers going to be a sidewaLk there or off-street trail,thaErs something that the Park and Rec Commission would have to look at.
you
exists as a 40 foot right-of-vray.
ought to increase that. . .
that adequate for a car and
Erhart: wouldnr t it beadditional. feet becausedoor...
more fair just
you don't knor.,
to ask for their
what will happen
half of 5
to the nex t
HeadIa: There's stillit should be 5 feet onfrom us. I think itrs
a lot of land that canrt be used down there. Maybethis side but it sounds like that should be cominga good suggestioo from the planning Commission that
Planning Commi ss ionJuly 5, 1988 - page
Meeting
L4
vre take a Iook at that.
Conrad: Are there any priorities on that Barbara, from the Citystandpoint, to upgrade that particular road?
Dacy: Not at this time.
Conrad: And remember Jim has something. you were taken care of.
Wildermuth: I was just going to make a motion. I move the planning
Commission recommend approval of Subdivision *88-l,I based on thepreliminary plat stamped 'rReceived June 8, 1988" subject to the conditionsI through 4 set forth by staff and to incLude a condition 5 that staffanalyze the roadway right-of-way requirements for Red Cedar point, Road Eobring it up to standard at some future point and make that recommendationto the Counc i I .
Headla: Second.
Batzri: r'd rike to amend his first condition. r think he wants to amendhis own first condition to go along with what Barbara suggested and thatis, that the reservation of the 50 foot drainage easemeni is notnecessarily going to be along the westerly side of Lot 2. I propose witha friendry amendment that iE be changed to read, reservation of i 50 footdrainage, utirity and street easement generally arong the westerly side ofLot 2 with final alignment to be determined by City Staff.
Conrad: Jim, would you amend your motion to read as such?
Wildermuth: Sure.
lvirdermuth moved, Headla seconded t.hat the planning commission recommendapproval of Subdivision *88-11 based on the preliminary plat stampedtrReceived June 8, 1988" subject to the following condi-tions:
Erhart: I think itts been our policy in the past, at least in south
Chanhassen on the subdivisions werve had thaE is anytime a subdivision
comes in, we try to get the, you know TH I01. Although there is no pLansfor TH 101 except to close it I think, everytime werve asked to bring the
easement up to what the State has recommended and we,ve done it. If itapplies here, I donrt think it wilt adversely affect the property.
Conrad: Maybe therers a motion that we could have t.he staff make a
recommendation to City Council in terms of expand the road easement on Red
Cedar Point.
Headla: That would be the way to get the baLl rolling. Let me make thatmotion then.
Headla: Second.
Planning CommissionJuIy 5, 1988 - page
Meeting
15
I
4.
A1I
Reservation of a 5A foot drainage,generally along the westerly sidedetermined by City Staff.
utility
of Lot 2
and streetwith final ea semen t
alignment to be
2
3
If Lot I is to continue access alongappropriate driveway access easement
the existing gravel driveway, anbe executed erith Lot 2.
If Lot 2, Block I further subdivides, a street shallthe benefitting property ownerrs expense within thiseasement to service what would be all five Iots.
A drainage and erosion control plan shallbuilding permit application pro-ess.be submitted as part of the
That staff analyze the roadway right-of-way requirements forPoint Road to bring it up to itandard at s6me future point.
voted in favor and the motion carried.
5
be constructed at
dedicated roadway
Red Cedar
Steve Berqui st
Tom Quammen
Bob Schoker
Jim McMahon
Appl i cant
App 1 i cant
Agent for Merit Heating and Jim McMahon
8301 Audubon Road
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report.
Conrad: The plan that theybit of a time table. Do you
table to guide us? If thisyou give us the down side to
improvements?
submitted that you gave us tonight, a littlehave any conments on the plan and the time1988, we're talking about 3 years out. Canapproving the request as is without those
Olsen: Itrs just that we've always required those improvements to bemade. There are reasons to have those improvements. As far as paving andwidening of the roadway for truck traffic and things like that. And therandscaping to screen the activities. rt is also aifficult to, they didnot want to make that investment at that time but thaE courd be the casein- 1991. we are requesting a feasibility study to see how sewer and waterwilr be extended to the site and how much it w-irt cost. There are somekey fac Eors .
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE RELOCATION OF THEIR OFE ICEIWAREHOUSE ANDCONTRACTORTS YARD ACTIvITIES TO PRoPERTY zONED IOp, INDUsTRTAL OFE ICE PARKAND LOCATED AT 8301 AUDUBON ROAD, APPROXTMATELY L/4 ytrLl sourH oF PARKROAD, MERIT HEATING AND COOLINGT INC.
PubIic Present:
Name Address
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
16
Conrad: Can you enforce athat would guarantee?
bonding requirement for somethj.ng like that
OIsen: A letter of credit in a development contract.
Emnings: ...these conditions all met or have done a plan...
Conrad: And you know what a pain that is.
Emmings: I don't know. What is it?
Dacy: Not necessarily revocation of the permit but if
accomplish their future plans then they have to do thesite.
they can I t
improvements to the
Hnnrings: Thatrs r.rhat I'm saying. Theytre given a choice.
Dacy: But not revoke the permit.
Batzli: What if they don,t do either one?
Dacy: If they dontt do either one, then that is grounds
Emmings: Thatrs what Irm saying. Either do what your reor do what you said you were going to do or you lose your
for revocation.
telling me to dopermit.
Chairman Conrad called the public hearing to order.
Steve Berquist: This is brand new to me. I'm not quite sure what Irmhearing but my basic bone of contention is the conditional use permit as acontractor rs yard. r understand regardless werd end up operating under aconditional use permit. rf our business was deemed to fit into an ropdistrict, would we not then farr under section 4, Temporary structures and
uses ?
Dacy: Thatrs been repealled from the ordinance.
steve Berquist: That.'s been repealled fron the ordinance. Did you knowthat? she's saying that- temporary structures and uses has been iepearredfrom the ordinance. Well, erhat Irm going to present, I had vrrittei outsome things that r wanted to tark about. rrom the word go, when we firstbegan to submit our apprication for land development, Jo Ann had said thatthey were going to look at us as a contractor's yard and r understandthat. r understand where t.hat conception would come from but r think inthis case that interpretation of Merit Heating and cooling opearting as acontractorrs yard may be f larred. Section I5-2 permits a variety of-businesses to operate in the Iop district. Number I on the risl isoffices. we have offices. Number 2 on the list is warehouse. we havewarehouse. Number 4 on the rist is trade shops. Now r couldn't find adefinition of a trade shop in anything but we do sheet metar work. weinstall furnances and air conditioning systems in residential andcommercial estabrishments. we carl ourserves subcontractors, yes but in
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeti ng
l7
my opinion that's the extent of us falling into the definition of acontractor's yard. We use trucks to get to our job sites. The onlyequipment that we load is a furnance 6r air conditioner out of ourwarehouse in the truck. we dontt have heavy equipment. we don,t havetrailers. we donrt have any backhoes, road-ers,- tienchers or anythingsimilar. section 28-14 defines contractorrs yards as vehicres,-equifmentor materials commonly used by building, excavltion, road construc€io;,landscaping and similar contiactors. -i contend th;t given theseparameters of the conditional use permit as a contracior,s yard is aninappropriate interpretation. r know my business. you .."'h..., yourrenot familiar with exactly what r do so r feer it,s in my best inieiest totake some exception and try and exprain where it is we'ie coming from.rrm asking the commission it be in order a reexamination of the ordinanceinterpreEetion or approve our request for a condiEional use permit foruseage of the property as per our devel-opment allocation.
conrad: we can have legar counser take a rook at the ordinance. rsthe next step in this case or would that be a possibre step Barbara?see how the ordinance applies to this particulir thing or i." yor.oconfident right novr, or Jo Ann, that fits within tne 6eriniiionz
Dacy: we maintain our recommendation that it is a conditionar use permit.Yes, we could have the Attorney write a formal response and analysi3. Thefarrback position is, if it'is not a contractor,s yird then it i.s eithersome other type of use or as the appricant suggests, a permitted use. rknow the appricant erants to get started ana reirry ilo""-n,t want to see anyderays in the review process. The commission can go ahead and act on theappl,ication one way or the other.
that
To
Erhart: Barb, letrs say it's light J.mpact. What are the conditions?
EIIson: Or a permitted use?
Erhart: So r.rhat? Any permitted tiha t are the requirements?
Conrad: The improvements that werre talking about are going
whether yourre a contractorrs yard or whether we categorizeYJay. Do you understand that?
use.
ma keEnmings: He's going to have to the same improvements.
Steve Berquist: I understand.
Conrad: The only thing you'd be getting out of ispermit and that's it. You still have to meet theapply to whatever yourre categorized as and a.lmoststaff has recommended to us tonight would stiLl beyou've, however you'd categor i ze .
to
you
be your s
some other
the conditional use
ordinances that would
aII of what the city
applicable to vrhatever
Steve Berquist: So vrhat yourre telling me is that even if I stampin-a 5,000 square foot building and I wanted to move my facility io
3nq i! some point in tj.me then devel,op the land and bu-ild myseli abuilding and sell off the rest of them, I woul,d still have io pave
widgits
a barn
aII the
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
I8
things? Put the curb and gutter in? prior to even moving in there?
Conrad: Right.
Steve Berquist: So in other words, itrs not economically feasible for meto buy the property and develop it now. Itrs not economically feasiblefor the seller to sell the property as a horse farm when itrs located inthe IOP district so he has no out and I have no in. Is that what your
posi tion is?
Conrad : We haven I t said that.
Erhart: It might be feasible for someone else to buy it.
Conrad: There are other people. As you've noticed, the Industriat park
is growing and we have people who hrant to move into Chanhassen so i.rehavenrt excluded. We have these standards that say when you wanE to moveinto the industrial area, these are the standards that you have to liveby. We do that on our residential area. We do that. in aII our diffr-'rentzones. The zoning that yourre noving into has these requirements. yourre
asking us to slip those requirements tonight for the first time and wehave to decide for ourselves, is that smart? Is that a smart decision for
Chanhassen to slip those requirements yet we've forced everybody eJ.se
whors moved into our IOP area. we force them to do these things. Now wehave to decide rrhether itrs good business for the City to slip it in your
case and justify and rationalize it. We understand your economicposition. We understand thaE but then that's sort of a price that happens
when you're moving into something thaE's bigger and for futuredevelopment. Development is not the easiest thing, the easiest game intoern. We do understand that but then again, we have to justify it toobecause force these standards, we impose them on other people.
Steve Berquist: One more question before I sit down and let some otherpeople talk. section 4, the temporary structures and uses section of theordinance, when was it struck and what was the reason?
Olsen: It $ras when the new Code was approved. The reason for that isthat a temporary structure, there was no way to really keep it temporary.It could become a permanent use.
Steve Berquist: As outlined through the 12 month permit.
proPer to have theOlsen: Our Attorney recommended that this was notordinance and that it should be removed.
Dacy: In essence, what the Attorney said was that the ordinance waspermitting a temporary conditionar use permit and that conflicts withstate statute. once you issue a conditionar use permit that runs with thetitre of the land. what our Attorney came back aid said is that if wekeep that section in our codes and ordinances, vre were opening, even withthat 12 month stipuration in there, he said he didn't feel co;fident thatr.re courd defend any action against us and that was initiated and repealledin early r 88.
Planning Commission
Jul,y 5, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
19
Steve Berquist: WeII, I'I1 sit down and keep my mouth shut for a while.
Conrad: Any other comments?iri the public hearing?
Anything that anybody else would like to say
Bob schoker: r happen to be the agent representing both buyer and seIler.Did I just understand that there are no conditional use per;its beingpermitted or given in the City of Chanhassen? No conditional use peimits?
ElIson: Temporary.
Batzli: It lvas the temporary conditional use permit was repealled just
several months ago so your ordinances may not be that much out of date.
Bob Schoker: One other question. Staff, they viewed the property andthis included the Fire Marshall r Building Inspector and City Engineer. Myunderstanding of the report that they indicated that aII of the buildings,the barn as a warehouse, the home as an office, were all structurally
sound and woulal be appropriate for the uses established with the additionthat they brought... The question in my mind is, wtty the positive report,the application couldntt move forward?
Conrad: If you want to do the things tshat the zone requires it can moveahead. They gave positive reports. We read the positive reports. If you
v,rant to do the things that every other builder in the IOP district has
done and meet those standards, itts just going to fly through but r.rervegot a list here of the things that yourd rather not do that our ordinancerequires. I think yourre not selli,ng us on why we should slip all thosedifferent ordinance features that vre felt was important to build a good
Industrial Office Park and it is good. The fact that yourre in town, we
like having you in town. Therers a Iot of good things about the
businesses that are here but we still have this protection for that IOP
that werre trying to make sure that it meets all these standards. whether
it be for sewer, water, landscaping. werre trying to keep that area at a
certain high level so we can attract more People. That.rs what werre
trying to do but at this point in time in the conversation, we haventt
heard a whole lot, at least I havenrt, about why we should do it.
Steve Berquist: In looking at it from a developerrs point of view and I'm
not a developer, but looking at it from our poiot of view, if you just
drive down through the office park, and it is a good office park, but if
you drive down through it, Roam Properties, the building that we're in,
has space available. I see the building Ewo doors down has spaceavaiLable. The gentleman that built the building right across from the
City carage has half a building available. The firm that built the
building that Century Technologies just vrent into a few months ago has
three-quarters of a building empty. Thatrs a whole lot of square footage
you could buy. Itrs not practical for us at this time. Opus owns two
sides of l-and adjacent to us and they haventt put a blade to it. They'vestill got land available there so for us to cone in and put in sewer and
water that is roughlyr I forget what the report says, like 500 and some
odd feet away from our site, for us to go in and put in somewhere in the
neighborhood of gL2,qgq.gO to $15,qTq.00 worth of blacktop in Class v only
Planning Commi ss ion
July 5, 1988 - Page
Meeting
2g
to have it torn up when that area does become viable for development, itrsnot good business. we'd rove to. rf our pockets were a little deeper andvre were a little bit more the risk taker, heck yes. Let's try it. Itrs anice site but itrd be a foolish move regardless of how deep our pockets$/ere. Thatrs why werre asking to opelate out of the farm on a temporarybasis and then as chanhassen continues to grow and develop and the.officepark continues to build and things get much, much more entrenched,. then itwirl make sense and at that time r assure you that development wirr takepLace and we wiII bring everything up to snuff. Itrs not like we'resaying we will never do it. Werre just saying werll do it when we ..can andit makes sense to do it.
Jim McMahon: Itm
remember here is
what you've said,and so on until i
can I E. see where i
doesn I t make busi
Tom ouammen: Irm Stevers partner and I guess I'm pretty ignorant as faras arr the ordinances go but how r was rooking at this proposal with Jimand us trying to buy this was that steve and r are renting a space from aguy and I'm looking at it like when I used to rent an apaitmeni. Then Igot rear rich and bought a house. This is just our first step as far astrying to buy a house, so to speak. All we want to do is run a littleheating business out of this house and barn for a short tirne and who knowswhat the futurers going to do. Like Steve says, therers so many va.cantbuildings around, why build more? I really didn'E think it was goipg tobe quite this compricated. r understand your folks position comptet6lybut werre just some little peons wanting to get a smalr little hunk ofChanhassen dirt and that's really what it amounts to.
the landowner but I guess the one thing we all, have tothat, as I listen to what theyrve said and listened totheyt re just asking to postpone doing all the extensiont makes sense from a dollar and cents standpoint. : It's going to be a detriment to the City or tnat itness sense or it doesn't make sense from development.
conrad: where do we draw the r.ine in similar situations rike this?
Jim Mcl,tahon: When the City's fuII.
Conrad: Let me relate it to a neighborhood. Letrs say it was aresidential area and this may be a bad anarogy so bear with me, but if youlive in one parcel and it has certain standai3s and somebody moves in nextdoor to you and the city applies totarly different standardi, you havejust totarly different standards that ti:e city for some reason gave, hor./
99.y""_justify that? Under erhat course? How far do you go? We have notsrrpped our standards in Ehe rop area yet and you,re the iirst one. youh"y:.:h". opportunity of being the firsi ones to ask us to do that so it,sa lrtre bit more difficurt. we donrc have necessariry the reasons yet,although vre certainly understand. vrhat you,re trying t6 ao. rtrs not thatwerre not empathetic with that, it's jist that what do we terr. the otherPeople? The next one that comes in and says, $re have 100 employees and wereally don't want to connect up to City water and sewer. Do we tel-I them,well, that's okay? How do we make that decision?
in the
nature.
Steve Berquist: First of alI, this is the only structuredistrict that is not, therers no other structure of this IOP
The
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
2t
situation will not happen unless someone puts ayou and says can we occupy it. The other thingis. . .
barn
tha t
and
find
up then comes tointerestingI
Conrad: Let me ask you why we
now start taxing maybe a septi.c
care of a whole lot of people?
should j usti fy
system that I s
septic problems where we
intended to reaIly take
the
not
Steve Berquist: Let me address that septic system. First of all, thesewer and water is 650 feet from the property so it's a ways. The cost ofthat is prohibited. As far as the existing services that serve thebuilding, Jim has 5 people that live there full time. Himself, his wifeand three children, one of which is a teenager, and 5 people living,washing, bathing, do all the things that people do with water, willgenerate a significant amount more water than we will. The staff reportrefers to a total of 18 employees. Itrs a bit misleading because in truthwhat our operation consists of, for 8 hours a day is 2 secretaries plus 3additional office people. Wetve got 5 people that come there at B:OA inthe morning. They'11 drink coffee during the day so they use thefacilities now and again. They'11 wash their hands. yourve got 3 salespeople who are there a maximum of 2 to 3 hours a day and installers andservice people that are there first thing in the morning and then lastthing at night and that is it. There's no washing. ?herers no bathing.Therers no dishes. There is no useage even approaching that of a family.
The report from Sullivan Services says that the se$rer system is working
and operational to the best of their knowledge. I rras out there when they
pumped it. Itrs a tlro tank system with a drainfield and I cantt guaranteethat it is in perfect condition. I canrt guarantee that it wiLl continueto work forever but if it doesn't or if you folks want us to put in aholding tank to be pumped every 6 months, werre amenable to that. I don't
have any problem with that. As far as the weII goes, the report refers toan aging $rell system, again, where werve got a family of 5 using thefacilty, using a 4 inch submersible well, a famity of 5 plus Jim watering
3g Eo 4g horses. Those suckers get thirsty. So again, our needs aregoing to be as I stated before. We'11 be making coffee, washing hands.
Thatrs really it. Be using the water faucet. Our useage of water isgoing to be fractional compared to what a family uses.
conrad: Anything el se?
Steve Berquist: One other Ehing I wanted to mention is that, as a matterof course, staff sent out letters to everybody that owned property vrithin
however many feet and I donrt think that any of them are here. I wouldtake that to mean there are no exceptions to be taken by the adjacent
Iandowners.
Conrad: In that report that rrent out, what was on the notice?
Olsen: Just the use of the ProPerty.
Batzli: Not the fact that itrs non-conforming.
Erhart moved, Batzli seconded to close the public hearing. Atl- voted infavor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Headla: ...I canrt but help think that when they came in, they bent over
backwards to put in something right away. They hit it hard to come in.
They made a real commitment. When Dataserv came in, we forced them,you've got to live by the ordinances. We didn't break down at all. wetvebeen doing that with people. Now housing contractorrs, whatever, werve
been treating them the same. Werv been consistent. Now a gentteman comesin and hets got some pretty good arguments but I donrt see a financial
commitment on his part. Itts all bet on the come. Itrs up to us. Itmgoing to put in that sewer and water and I'm going to sho!, Irve got realplans and I could live with sone of the other stuff but to see bare bones
on his part, hers taking away but hers not putting anything back. Not
making a commitment. Based on that, I'11 vote for denial.
Wildermuth: I think the ordinances
approPriate. I s).mpathize with thesingle structure of it's type in anthe ordinances have to stand.
that have been established aresituation. It is unique. It is a
IoP district on the one hand. I think
BatzLi: I agree pretty much with r.rhatrs been said. I sort of feel likewerre being asked to subsidize their investment into a future land
development plan without letting us knols what theyr re going to do and that
and us subsidizing it, I guess I would vote to deny it at this point.
Ellson: Before the plan came in for the 1991 improvement, the staffreport said that you had no future plans because they depended on Opus andthe future subdivision of the property. So from the time that they errotethis report to the time that you had that r.rritten up, it seems Iike you
made some future plans. Irm not sure how well thought out they r.rere. Ifthis was something that you did just to help it get through but I agreewith your first thoughts that you were probably not planning for thefuture because you wanted to know what Opus was going to do and you wantedto know other things so you really hadnrt planned the trro buildings but itseemed like the two buildings came up just because you heard staff wasgoing to deny it. I donrt like the idea of temporary at aII. It may bewhat you said initially that it iso,t economically feasible for you rightnow to take advantage of this opportunity. I'm not sure if you can arrangesomething with the property owner or what have you. It doesnrt seem tikeyourre agreeing to any of the conditions. Like Dave said, maybe if you dohalf or r^,hatever and you had the agreement that after 3 years it vras notdone, something I might go $rith that if I saw an approach from your sidethat yourre willing to do that but like the other commissioners said,werve certainly stuck to our guns and made people change their signs thattheyrve had across the world and everything like that because we havethese ordinances and it $rould be awful tough on tbe nexE one that comes inif rre Iet this go. To try and do something like that to them. I wouldprobably deny it unless I saw that you,d be willing to do at least some ofthem.
Emmings: Basically Ifar. I donrt bel-ieve
along with theanything being
comments that havecalled tempor ary.
been made soI donrt bel ieve
9oin
Planning Commission Meeting
JuJ,y 61 1988 - page 22
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
MeeEing
23
it. Therers no such thing as temporary. It sounds like itrs a buyerismarket out there. rt sounds rike there's a lot of space available in the
IOP and maybe thatrs the most appropriate thing for them to do. I don'tknow but if therers all that empty space out. there, you ought to be ableto get something at a good price. The only thing Irm not clear on is, Irmnot sure r know what they're asking for to know if sre should move to denythis or if we should move to recommend to approve it with the conditionsr.rhich are essentially the same thing. rrve got to know what, r guess wehave to know that before we know which one to do.
Dacy: The staff report says all three.
Enmings: rt says one of our options is to deny the application because itdoesn't meet the requirements of the zoning Ordinance and one is torecommend approvar with ar1 those conditions and those conditions wouldbring it in line with it. l and 3 are really identical. Ho!, should wehandle that?
Dacy: It depends on hov, the applicant wants to pursue the application.
They could ask the Commission to go ahead and act on the applicationmaintaining the position that. they don't feel that the paving isappropriate is now and have the Commission act on it. They might get thesame response at Council. They might not.
Emmings: I guess iErs the same thing in effect.
Conrad: You either say it positively or negatively.
Erhart: I pretty much agree with everybody elses comments. I understandthe strategy of the developer and why it may seem the obvious thing to dofrom an individual, rs standpoint. It is the worse thing that we could dois plan Eo even consider such a request. It just goes totally against theplanning process that we have created here at the City of Chanhassen. Ithink wetve done a pretty good job but regarding the issue of $rhether just
simply deny it or approve it lrith conditions, my personal feeling is it
would be totally unfair for the rest of the owners of buildings andbusinesses in the park to approve what is now a singte family house for
use as an industrial. Thatrs not to say that f couldn't move my business
from the Hiteman Building over and put it in his barn. I think if I camein with that request, youid all be appalled. This is really no different.
You've got a few more employees but the situation is the same. Again,I have a similar comment that werre asked to subsidize someone, sinvestment. I t.hink thatrs simply what it is. I think just a simpledenial is appropriate.
Conrad: Are there any standards that ere could justify slipping
soinebody would move in to that area? So to speak, it is on theof the track. Is there any rationale that you can come up withthat would say iE's separated a little bit?
Jim McMahon: How many facilities Iikethat ques t, i on?
asother s idefor me
this are in that park? May I ask
Planning Commi ss ion
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
24
Conrad: How many facilities?
Jim l,tcMahon: Ho!, oany houses and barns are located within the industrial
park?
Jim Mcuahon: Theyr re asking for a temporary use of that.
Emmings: We donrE know what. that means.
EIlson: The situation ofright nolr. We donr! want
can come up in any of the
someone saying weto do the curbing
IOPrs.
don't
right
want
novr.
to do
That
the berming
sort of thing
Conrad: Itrs just really tough to rationalize. You can rationalize someof these things. Temporary and whatever but not all of them. Not aII ofthem. Just because therers a house and barn there, there are these other
requirements and you canrt, these other requirements are there regardlessof whether there's a house or barn there. Are there any of theserestrictions that you feel comfortable with, that coulil be slipped for 3years?
Wi Idermuth :
there.
I think the curbing. I think a hard surface roadway IS
Steve Berquist: It was our intention from the beginning, especially aftertalking with Jo Ann about what would be required and they wanted someadditional parking and what not, so they had an engineer. you talk aboutmaking a commitment, werre making a substantial commitment not only interms of the money because werre going to end up spending a lot of moneyto be able to operate out of there. It's like putting a size 12 foot in asize 9 shoe but it is temporary.
Enmings: In 25 years? How long? what does temporary mean?
Steve Berquist: Did you say 25 years?
it means?Bnm i ngs : Yes . Who knovrs wha t
Steve Berquist: Irve tried to use 1991 as some kind of a ground. Cantel1 me how long iErs going to be before the City of Chanhassen will beable to support additional structures beyond the tracks?
Emmings: I donrt have to. Irm not asking for your approval.
you
Conrad: Right, we have one.
Emmings: I guess the flip side to that is, how many people want to runtheir business out of a house and barn? IErs not, you're trying to jam a
use into a set of buildings. I think therers a real big conflict rightthere. It doesnrt make sense. You rrouldn't put your barn in a warehouse.
You donrt put a business in a barn.
Steve Berquist: Yourre asking for me to be a soothsayer and I can't be.
What werre looking to do, we're buying this for an investment of course
and we're trying to operate out of there with the least amount ofdisturbance to the existing property as i^re possibly can. Werre willing tograde. Werre willing to bring in Class V and make the parking lotuseable. werre certainly willing to landscape and hide, for instance
werve got to roII off sheet metal into the old furnances and stuff. Werrecertainly rrilling to screen all of that stuff. It's not a majorinvestment, I grant you, but nevertheless it is an investment. It seemsto me that major investments arenrt viarranted in that if things go like wethink they're going to go and in 1991 we do put the whole thing under theblade and subdivide and put up two buildings, that investment will berighE down the tube. It doesn'E make sense. If you were in my position Ithink yourd feel the same hray that 1do. What I'm saying is, I willcertainly do, if you want us to put a holding tank in to supplement thesewer system. Werll pave it with Class V. I think blacktop is a bit of astrong request. As far as the feasibility study conducted by a registeredengineer to provide sanitary sewer and waler, we all know that the cost ofrunning sanitary sewer and water from iE's present location is going to beprohibited and the location of those facilities are written in thatreport. Ms. Olsen herself, if I remember the report properly eludes to anexpensive proposition. We'11 comply with the conditions of the Suilding
and Fire Inspector. Werre going to end up bringing it. up to the firecode. We're going to end up increasing the electrical service. wetregoing to end up spending money to bring in additional phone service.
Werre going to spend money to upgrade the heating and air conditioningplan. WerlI put in an air conditioning plan. Werre going to spend moneyto sheetrock and take down walls and put in carpet. Werre going to spend
money, you get my drift.
Conrad: We know and we also know that development is an expensiveproposition. That's why Irm not in it. Itrs a tough deal and this
Commission sees people trying to develop stuff all the time that maybe
they shouldn t t be doing.
Steve Berquist: One last thing, please bear with me. t"ty initial
submittal to the City I referred to itrs going to depend on what opus
does. Like I said, Opus borders the property on two sides. This was a
tentative plat of lots and as you can see, there's a road that runs
directly from Audubon to a cul-de-sac and right here is Opus land. Yes,
it depends on what opus does to a degree. we could make that a clean
cul-de-sac but if we're able to strike a deal with Opus and extend this
road back further into the Park, that may benefit all of us. The City and
both developers so it's not like we're attemPting to get away with
anything or hide anything. The problem is, as Irm sure you all
understand, is that on the other side of the tracks it tends to get
nebulous.
Conrad: coing down these things that we think we might be able to slip.
Landscaping. Any feeJ,ing we could slip our standards there? Building and
fire Inspector we wouldnr t slip on there. Sanitary sewer and water.
WouId we consider that?
Planning Commission Meeting
July 6, 1988 - Page 25
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
26
Batzli: I don't know that we'reI thought we erere merely askingalEernative. That didn' E soundconditions.
Olsen: We would want to do
requiring any of Ehese conditions.feasibility study as to anIike we were really requiring these
even
for ato me
Conrad:
that.But tha E.r s getting
a feasibility study...
water and serrer there. Thatrs the way I read
Batzli: The best al ternativebest rday to provide sanitaryalternative. I read that as
and drill a new weII.
to provide so yourre just trying for thesewer. You don't mean that therers anbasically saying he could have a holding tan k
Brown:
e I udeda site
sys tem
Part of our concern was obviously, and I think the applicantto this, it may be prohibitive cost.wise to extend these services toand therefore we need some sort of guarantee that the existingwiIl support . . .
Batzli: V{hy would anybody
sewer ?
$rant an rop area without municipal water and
Dacy: Exactl.y. If we take it outwould have to revert back to ag.
of the urban service area, then it
Dacy: Just carrying that one step further, if the study comes back andsays that there is no feasible solution Eo provide sewer and water to theservice, then the city may want to look at dereting that parcel from theurban service area but up until this point it has been included in that.Again, the feasibility study can idenEify a feasible eray to make theconnection. some time in the future that property has to be hooked up ifitrs going to be in the urban service are"- ani the study can tell us howmuch, whors going to benefit and how can it be paid for. Throughassessments or.. .
Brown: It also incorporates that. We need concrete evidence, eventhough rrrr rook at that and state eid is too far away, we need to explorethe alternative because again, this is within the MUSA area and iE's usesuggests that it should be serviced by sewer and rrater. If thefeasibility study comes back and says that (a) the costs are prohibitivethen we, on the other side of the coin, need documentation st;ting thatthe existing services will suppJ.y the demand.
mad e
barn
the
PUMP
it afor both
eng i neer
water f ast
Bnmings: I note that on the Eire Inspector's letter, hecondition that there be a total sprinkler system in theleveLs and also the house and I guess my quEstion, maybecould answer it, if thereis a fire in the barn, can y6uenough out of that h,ell to service sprinklers?
Conrad: So your comment is not to run sewer and water there?
Planning Commi ss ionJuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
.,1
Brown: Yes. Thatrs been a common guestion as of rate. rt does involvethe addition of pressure tanks onto the site but thatts being done moreoften than not in the rural areas that are requiring sprinkrlng systems.
Enmings: So it could be done with the well that's there?
Brown: Correct.
Olsen: But there wilt have to be...
Bror,rn: Not knowing, I want to clarify your statement. Not knowingexisting welt, but that sort of plan is certainly possible.
Jim McMahon: On the question of whether or not the water andfeasille to that property. There are tvro ways that it can bethe site. Irm aware of this because...who w6re interested inproperty and they did a study...in conjunction with Opus...
Conrad: Any of these other requirements that anyone would feelcomfortable slipping or delaying? The driveway?
Batzli: I think there,s a big redundancy betrdeen (a) and (f).willing to get rid of one of them.
the
sewer is
brought into
tha t
Ird be
conrad: rf there's a feasibirity done that said it's not feasible tobring sewer and water to this site, then we rdould probabry kick it out ofthe urban service area right? The financial...
Erhart: Irm having a hard time following this. llost Landovrners wouldjust jump up and down to get their rand put within the MUSA line and haveit zoned IOP. With the gro$rth out here, it,s simply a matter of time andthat land, I know that piece of property because I drive by it often, it,sjust a matter of time somebody q,ith the money to do it righE is going towant to buy that piece of property to build their own corporate Uuitaingon and I just caort imagine why we would screw around with this temporaiystuff given all those facts. I just can,t imagine.
Conrad: Irm just trying to keep this, I,m looking for a way that, isthere a way to justify it? Irrn probing here and there and I'm trying toextract that. We o$re that to the applicant to see if there's a way andthat's vrhat Irm trying to do here. If there's not a way, I think then westick to our guns. Without lecturing, I think one of the things planning
Commission can do is to add some reasoo to ordinances. Sometimes theydonrt have to be enforced to the letter of the Iaw and sometimes bha!'s
why you have a public group involved. yet on the other hand, I thinkwerve all been around here enough to know that our ordinances are prettygood and $reive updated them and we,re pretty comfortable with what thoseordinances are doing for us. Anyvray, my only comments. I really don'tknow how to justify slipping some of the requirements. I donrt know howto do iE in one case and not in the other and erhen somebody doesnrt give
me those rules that can say in this case you allow it, in that case youdonrt., then I have a real problem of allowing the variance or slipping thestandard. I think if I had seen a very definite plan, a 3 year plan Lhat
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
28
saial I'm going to do this in 1988 and this in I9B9 and this in 1990, morethan a piece of paper that came in in the llth hour, whatever, I think Imight be more Eeceptive to saying hey, itrs going to happen but because ofthat, I guess Irm not in favor of this particular application as it stands -right now. I believe that the ordinances and the requirements are prettyimportant to maintain and I canrt find a way to justify a temporary erayaround enforcing those at the current time. Is there a motion?
Erhart: Ir11 move to deny the application on the basis that it does notneet the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance.
Enmings: Second.
Batzli: You donrt think that you
at all because theyrre going to gonice build ing ?
want to
by and
aPprove
they I re
it with the conditions
not going to build the
Erhart: I think I've stated a couple times. I just think it,sinappropriate to even consider it. We make other companies, if I was the
owner of that Iand and I heard some discussions up here about rezoningthis thing to A-2 and taking it out of the MUSA, I guess I'd rip up rnypurchase agreement and stop this conversation righ tnovJ. this is goingall in the wrong direction.
Conrad: And you
Tim?
don't like this because, you erant to totally deny it, why
Erhart: I think they should come in and meet the ordinance.
it and they meet the ordinance, erhatrs theConrad: Ifdifference?we apProve
Erhart: I'd like to see a plan. Therets no plan.
l{ildermuth: I guess thatrs r^rhy I'd be in favor of tabling of it andallowing the applicant to come in with a ptan with some assurance thatthere would be a time table. Something beyond just saying that it dependson how Chanhassen grovrs. I think werve got to have something moreconcrete than that. I think we have to have some assurance that thestructures that would be temporarily used would be maintained in goodorder. Would provide a relatively attractive alternative to razing andthe abirity to construct a new building. r,m be in favor of tabring it atthis point.
conrad: r rrourdnr E want to table it. r think the appricant should takeit to City Council. I think he should hear what they-'." saying. t{e reactto a whole differentl they react to other things than what $re do. Wereally do get into the planning and some ivory tower stuff. Theyincorporate some other things in their decisi6n rnaking and r thiik in thiscase, they should take it to the City Council and find out what theCouncil has to say. Itrs going to give them a better feel for pursuitrather than us sending it back. r think it.rs really smart for them to goup and talk to Council.
Emmings: I was thinking that the right thing to do was to recorunendapproval with the conditions because that would give them the opportunityto comply and do it and I found that the owner didnrt like that. Ichanged my mind on that. One of the major things that made me change mymind was the fact remembering that our Attorney told us that we donit wlntto create temporary conditional uses. I thought, and again I was morewirring when r came in here tonight to rook at some of lhese and try andfind some that we courd maybe put to the side if they do others. r Lhoughtthat we, for example, my initial reaction was vrer ll put the sewer andwater in, get that done and go easy on the rest of this as l-ong as thereis some assurance that they do it or we have sanctions if they donrt. rdonrt feel that way anlrmore. I just think that creating a temporary useand applying different standards to this property on things thit we canapply to the rest of the IOp makes no sense at aII.
wildermuth: I would like toapplicant another opportuni ty issue tabled and I'd
together a di fferent
see
to
the
put give theplan.
SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR A 4O,TAO SQUARE FOOT
OE PROPERTY ZONED BN, NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS
NORTH SIDE OE LAKE DRIVE EAST, JUST EAST OF
C ENTER.
SHOPPING CENTER ON 4.85 ACRES
DISTRICT AND LOCATED ON THE
Q-SUPERETTE, HIDDEN VALLEY
Jo Ann Olsen and Barbara Dacy presented the staff report.
Planning Commission Meeti ngJuIy 6, 1988 - page 29
Erhart moved, Emmings seconded that the pranning commission recommend todeny the request for a conditionar use permit for a contractorrs yard inthe roP, rndustrial office park District for Merit Hearing and co6ling,Inc. on the basis that it does not meet the requirements of the ZoningOrdinance. AII voted in favor of the motion except Wildermuth whoopposed and the motion carried.
Conrad: Right now Barbara, if they gave us their presentation, more thanIikely we're going to table the item. I'm just spaaking for myself but
r,rould r,re be inviting them back for another presentation therefore?
Dacy: Yes.
Conrad: so we would see it, if we decided to table and werll certainlygive the applicant a chance to speak for themselves but from ourstandpoint, is it $rorthwhile Iooking at their application now and theirpresentation or should we, from a planning standpoint, wait based on erhatyou might find out in the study? wilt the studies change what you thinkis going to be presented by them a great deal?
Dacy: I donrt think it would hurt that you would al1ow them to go throughthe presentation to become more familiar with the site. It mighi savetime at the August 3rd meeting.
Planning Commi ss i on
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeti ng
3q
Conrad: Is that agreeabLe to everybody? Okay. Is there somebody that
would like to give us a little show?
Frank Kramer: I'm Vice President of New American Homes. We started
working $rith the City staff approximately a year ago in working on thesite plan for this area that werre going to present. Back in December wenet with City Staff and they said, will you rrork with us through theIegislative session? we think we can funding proposed for the TH 5/TH L']-alignment. We'l1 know a lot nore. In the first part of June, the 5th of
June, we net with City Staff again and rre were on your last Planning
Commission agenda. we wrote a letter to the City Manager and said that if
we get a letter from the City stating that vrerve met aII the requests andall the ordinances and all zoning ordinances, we agree to be tabled untilthe next neeting. We never received a letter back so we really should
have been on the last meeting. !{er 11 make our presentation but this wiII
be the second meeting werve been tabled at. Werre holding a very
expensive piece of ground and we tried to work with City Staff and I hopeyou take that into your consideration when you decide what youire going todo about this. With that, I'11 have Jack Boarman from Boarman Associates
who's the architect make the presentation.
Jack Boarman: We basically, just to illustrate some of the background, westarted the project by coming to staff and going over the various planning
and zoning issues. This is TH 5. This is the Lake Drive East. This isthe intersection point. The setbacks. The signage. A11 of those have
been lrorked through various revisions and various preparations to get itjust right. I think we have that. One of the things I wanted to pointout, I think at an earlier proposal that we v,rent over with staff, we havea little bit more th,aa 4g,ggT. In reviewing the actuat final submittal asrevised, we do have some interior landscaping isLands and 401000 squarefeet. A11 those numbers reflect compliance, I think with some revisionsthat we submitted to staff later on.
Erhart: A question to make it clear, the design is based on the existing
road?
Jack Boarman:Absolutely.
rre want to delay it so we can redesign it around the proposedErhart: And
inter section?
Jack Boarman: I think, if I could holdright here so as you can see...this up, this is our property
Erhart: It has a major impact on it.
Jack Boarman: It cuts it in the middle. After severaL revisions, I thinkthis sheet represents the compliance as finatly revised. A lessertiveplan than that is represented here. From the standpoinE of the design ofthe facility, ererve got pretty much all the schematic and designdevelopment drawings done. Werre working on final processing. Within ashort period of time would be in a position to pull a final building
q..Ti!. This project realJ.y begins at this point with the rarger retailfacirity here. we've designed this end of the building so it rearly hassome good visibirity so there'|s rearry very rittle rear of the buireingkind of exposure. Heavy landscaping icrosi here. Another larger taciiityhere- smaller spaces through here. A central tower element and focarlandscaping in through here accessing off of this tree corumnated accessdrive here. Heavy landscaping through the islands in through here. Thenheavy landscaping on the berm that runs through here and thiough over hereand a berm across the back which is going to be Norway pines and spruce asa barrier back here so the rear of the buirding reall| doesn't have aprobrem as far as exposure. The overarl design theme of the bui).ding, asthe.completed design, we tried to rerate to the high quality of retaiidesign. thatrs being introduced and expanded over tfre lears -here in thecommunity. obviously this beautiful moder out in the robby representsyour potential and therers construction going on and r thi;k the design ofthis, with this central pyron tower erement witn a clock and a centrarcanopy element. This is at the intersection of the columnated drivewayoff of this intersection and onto the road here so as you come in, itrearry is the focal element. rt's high enough that from TH 5 you see itas well. More of a village square kind of look to the facility. Acombination of brick and wood and metal roofing. Again, similir to thedesign palate that you have established here n6w, tie series of higherentry elements with lower will give it a sense of not being a horilontarkind of building but a building that has a series of focal pointentrances. We spent well over a month looking at different designsketches. The roof design is, in some areas, a straight truss that slopesin. In other areas it drops down and over and down ana up so that itmaintains a gabled edge but has a lower recessed area for screeningequipment and that type of thing. werre very, very sensitive to piovidinga very high qua}ity design image. We think that this location isoutstanding. rtrs the type of thing that provides not only an excerlentdesign for the community but the location is inherently a very inportantspot and we wanE to make sure thaE the design is of the high quality thatbefits this kind of location. I think at that point I wouid open it upfor any questions about the design.
Conrad: Any questions that we may have of the design? The one accesspoint is something that intrigues me. Just one.
Jack Boarman: I think there has been some discussion $rith staff about
even a second access point up here and we would think that tha! j_s fine.we were actualry more concerned about creating controrred points of accessas the level of this road intensifies. Naturally through development, notthrough realignment of TH 101. The point of our interest is that thisdrive right here, as a frontage road with a controlled entrance here and acontrolled entrance here is a very viable type of street layout for thistype of project and also for the traffic. This location, of course, iskind of at midpoints between these and provides an organized location fora major turn in and out. Obviously as the development proceeds, we wouldassume that this road here would be designed to take the type ofdevelopment activity. traffic that wetre talking about so werd want to,for safety sake, try and concentrate the intersection points so that evenif it became a left in or out if there's some kind of geometric to this
Planning Commission MeetingJuly 5, 1988 - page 3l
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meet i ng
32
intersection that might be inproved for the sake of traffic flow, it wourdbe a planning issue. Having an exit point in addition Iike this, youcould have trdo of them. That lrourdn r t bother us but we r^rere concernedabout the traffic effect on movenent out here. Itis going to be a lotmore traffic movement out here than there would be on our internal streetas our engineer notes.
Conrad: Any other questions?
Erhart: Do you want to kick this around?
Conrad: Sure.
Erhart: Right nohr youtre looking at moving Lake Drive East further west?
Dacy: No, TH I0I.
Erhart: or TH 101. Further west right in the middle of this development.so that means two questions. why do you want to move it further west andthen want happens if you move iE further rdest? what's going to happen toyour development? What yourre proposing.
Jack Boarrnan: Itis pretty ser I ous .
Dacy:
are vre
Your first question
going across TH 5?
is why tire realignment, is what you said. Why
Werve already approved that for the Comp plan
Dacy: But what are you
have
say i ng
to cut
by moving it?
across that property? Why canrt you just
of the
shoppi ng
Dacy: There are a number of engineering standards that have to be met inorder to be approved by MnDot. For example, the angles of theseintersections. They have to be a rninimal angle. Tiere has to beappropriate stacking distance from the tH 5 intersection. As a matter offact, r think the originar concept was a little farther over to the eastbut in order to get as_close of a 90 degree geometric on TH 5 as possiblelthey had to move toi,rards the west., get; proper crossing over the railroadand get into a touchdown point over at La[e 6rive East. So hrhat Irmtrying to say is that there are engineering reasons why itrs beingproposed as it is and thatrs why we've got our consultint trying [.o finetune that to make sure that that can be accomplished and be acceptabl.eto MnDot.
Erhart: Why do weuse the existing?
Dacy: As
proPer ty .
center.
Erhart: Are we trying to srork in the proposal as much as we can?
proposed right now, it cuts right t.hrough the middle
They would not be able to build a 4g,Agg square foot
Erhart: I understand that.
wet re working on.
Planning Commi ss ion
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
33
EIIson: Haven I t
development i dea?
you told them that since the conception of the
Dacy: Right and what werre looking at now as part of thedetermine exactly how much is going to be left over to seeuse remaining. They're obviously saying, I canrt build afoot shopping center. we accept that but we need to findconstruction Iimits and so on.
study too is toif there is a
49,900 squareout the exact
Jack Boarman: rf r could onry add this. The setback rimit is 30 feet forany development plus the setbacks for the building and the view, I donrtwant to dra$, on this but if you took this piece and you came back to thatamount of distance plus here you are, yourd have a developable piecethatrs a sliver. Really very, very small and thatrs the end result. Nowis it true that the alignment of TH 1OI has had a series of discussionsprior to this engineering plan?
Conrad: Werve been working on that for quite a while.
Jack Boarman: Sure and I donit think the actual drawing of this typereally has been, I have several drawings in my file of concepts that cutall the tip of our piece and head into Lake Drive and through a lot ofdifferent configurations. The point Irm getting at is vrerve been workingwith that issues as long as, maybe not as long as you have but certainlyover a year. As werve developed this plan, the road alignment has beengetting more and more detailed but itrs also been more and more moving.Obviously it's not moving in a more complicated direction.
Erhart: When did you buy this property?
Frank Kramer: In 1983.
Dacy: They were the original subdividers of Hidden VaIIey.
Jack Boarman: Weive been working on this design about, the first time we
Iooked at it was about 12 mont.hs ago and it went through site plans and
stopped and started. My only point I wanted to make is, this is, having
been in the business 15 or more years, dealing with highway departmentissues is always a big issue and they have very good geometric issues thatthey want to have. I think werve taken the approach that the road isunder design and therfore is not in place and werve seen already 2 or 3different alignments and obviousLy the use of this project, if it werehere and done, it r.rould certainly affect the design and layout of this
because thatrs the case with these apartments over here. Any of thesebuildings that are done and up certainly have affected the location ofthis. The use of thj.s property is not, thj.s building isn't done yet butthis is clearly a subsnative use that if it were in place, would affectthis location. I think werve been trying to see where this thing isactually going to be located and werve seen it in other locales. Whetherit's over here or whether it's over here, it certainly would have beenIess detrimental to the developer and yet, if this were in placep clearlythose types of alternative locations to this one would have been more
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
34
seriously looked at. Maybe that's the best way to put
paper is cheap. You can do it over and over and movethat's kind of the issue we're hoping to see happen.
it. Anything
it around. I
on
think
Batzli: Is this configuration the oneat the church? Was that the one that
looked at grhen we were
was working on?
we
BRW
looking
Dacy: This one is different than the one we looked at the time of the
churchr s application. It shifted over more to the west on the basis ofMnDot. Again, August 22nd could come around and the Council could deny aIand use plan amendment. There could not be a project for realigning iH10I. We need to decide that. The CounciL needs to decide that once andfor all and thatrs what we've got to ask. Through the public hearingprocess, the north leg option of trying to take the traffic down on TH 5and south on TH 101 has been a suggestion and I can assure you that theroom will be packed full of people at the planning Commission and theCouncil asking very good questions. we need to do that trafficanalysis.
Erhart: Where are we proposing the funding come to do this intersection?
Dacy: There is still an outside chance that we'11 have legislationreintroduced in a special session next fall to extend the Iife of theEconomic Development and Tax Increment District to Hennepin County. TheCity, I think it's fair to say that the City Staff at least is committedto trying to find as many funding options as we can to get this projec!the public support so thatrs one avenue. There's always bonding avenues.
Erhart: Isnrt the fact that they're going to redo TH 5r isn,t thatto pay for all the improvements whether itis at one location or the
going
other ?
Dacy: what MnDot has said is that they will construct, they will bewilling to pay for the improvements within the right-of-way. At minimum,if we can not get the roads built in conjunction with the TH 5 widening,that i{e would at least try and achieve to get everything in place herefirst before constructing the remainder of the roadway. It's anotherreason why we need to know sone of these cost implications. MnDot isreally looking at this as a City project. we're looking at MnDot andsaying, but hey, this is a trunk highway that is carrying more thanChanhassen traffic so we're trying to determine some cosLs and approachMnDot r.rith some proposars at some type of cost sharing and then findingsome financing alternatives that. maybe we can work some type of financingagreement out to accomplish the realignment.
Erhart: I think the plan that yourve presented is very nicehigher quality than the one that werre currently putting inappearance wise. I think the one downtoern is pretty nice.
and it's a
downtown from
Jack Boarman: The point that I vrant to makeof being able to finish documents and werveand werd like to continue.
is that we,re within 30 daysbeen doing it for 14 months
1.
t)
c
Planning Commi ss ion
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
35
Erhart: If you went through the process here inapproval r when would you start construction?
the next 6A days and got
the tenants
going toelse? Wi th
Amer i can
Jack Boarman: That's getting closer to the fall.
Frank Kramer: IErs not only a matter of construction time butwe have lined up ready to go right now are saying, are you everget this thing off the ground and are we going to go soireplacethat, also with us tonight is John Karrens our Attorney for NewHomes and he would like to address the Commission also.
John Karrens: rrm John Karrens, counsel to New American companies. rdonrt mean to pray the heavy on this one but r think it might be usefulfor you to understand how r see this from my planning stanipoint which issimply, theyrve gone through a lot of effori in " ,reiy, I tiink, effectiveworking. rerationship with your staff on the basic sit6'pran and it doescomply in arl respects with what yourre basic requir"*e-nts are and it is apermitt.ed zoning use. r am bothered by the idea of sirnply retting iE setaside given the fact that it does put what we're requirld to do on thesite what you pran. r often do siie review plans mfself when r was on thecity council. of Minneapolis and r realize as vorunt-eers yourre sometimescaught with these things a little bit but basicarry the 6rdinances aredrafted to set up the negotiation that worked here to develop a site planthat conforms. r can fully understand if we had a major hook in here andwerre asking for a variation of our conditionar use p6rmit or somethingrike, it might be appropriate to set it aside when wL compry fully but onthese advise and consent site prans, it seems to me that it- needs to moveforward now since werre in compliance. r'm bothered by the idea oftabling it with on a somewhat rerated, r think somewhai specurativeproject. Now our crients have rooked at this now for werL over a year onthis particular design. r know when we had discussion with Nsp over theeasement that runs across the fronE of the property on TH 5, even at thattime there were several different alignments becaule NSp at that point
wasnr E. quite sure how long their power rines. Theyrve nor^r gone ahead andapparently built so I would really urge that this pass forwird to theCouncil now and wetd like to see the Council at least approve itrecognizing, as I think your staff has in the report, that werve done whatthe city expects us to do. werve done a site plan to meet yours plans andspecs. Irm troubled by the idea of setting it aside for a while heresince weive arready been set aside once. we'd rike to move forward to theCouncil and get past that point and obviously the factors that 90 intothis basically or partially and I think the near to this stage project.we're been sitting on the caring cost here which is quite substintiar nowfor several years and the market out here has gotten much stronger youknow, I think from the development activities in your community. thj.s isa very strong community and now r berieve the time has come to move aheadand do this project which werve been carrying for several years at a costso-r wourd urge you to push ahead to council now in acknowledgement thatwerve done.what yourve asked us to do and we compry. we do m6et your siteplan regs in every respect. I'Il be gtad to answei questions.
Erhart: Barb, does this in fact tabling this before, was this on theagenda?
Planning Commission
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
36
Dacy! No, it was never scheduled.
Conrad: I hate to play the heavy here but on the other hand, wetve beenlooking at the realignment of our highways for quite a while. werve beenIooking at TH tol and solutions. We've been looking at traffic flo$,problems in Chanhassen and itrs not that City Staff just dreamt this up.Werve been playing around erith it and we finally worked it into a
comprehensive plan. That plan is documented and itts there. The exactalignment obviously has been moving around but itrs not that there hasnrtbeen attempt. I see a City Staff that has laid out a very agressiveschedule where theyt re saying we are going to do this and r4,e are going todo that and we're going to turn this around in a month. ThaErs pretty
aggressive type stuff. If yourve worked with cities before, you know thatcities donrt always move that fast. Sometimes you donrt get on an agenda,and Irve worked with many differenE planning commissions and councils andyou donrt get on the agenda for 4 to 8 weeks, just getting your turn inthose rapidly expanding communities like Apple Valley and BurnsviIIe. Itmpretty comfortable $rhat I heard tonight that City Staff is not, if I saw
them trying to delay something, I think werd say there's something wrongbut I didn't get that feeling tonight. I feel they're trying to explorethe other options and those other options may fall away after, the highwaythat goes through is going to have a whole lot of input from t.heneighborhood but that's just critical based on what this group has beendoing for the last couple years, and we have been playinq around with thatfor that length of time. Again, Irm speaking for myself and the other
commissioners certainly can comment on these things but I see those twothings. One, itrs in the comprehensive plan and two, r^re're reallyaggressively going out, not trying to delay a project because we like
development and this looks like a good development. Something we'd liketo have here but werd be doing a disservice to the community if we didnrttake a look at how werre going to shuttle people from the south Chanhassento the north and people from other places south through the town. I guessIrm not real sensitive to some of the comments. I donrt think wetredelaying excessively and I think we specifically do owe it to theresidents of Chanhassen to take a look at the alignment. Conduct a publichearing and work with you as quickly, as extraditiously es we can. Iheard staff give you that commitment and I think thatrs pretty good. Anyother comments?
Headla: We could take the approach tojust gave us so it would go to Councilthe realignment is.
based on the reasons you
them decide on how critical
deny it
and let
Dacy: I would recommend that we not take that approach.
Headla: Why?
Conrad: I dontE think itrs good planning. Dave, r.rhen itrs not goodplanning, then I donrt feel that just getting it out of our court issmart. When itrs a close call and it,s a question of whether itrs good orbad planningr t€s1 let the Council have at it but in this case itrs justgood planning. It makes sense that we take a look at this. They foi sure
Planning Commission
JuIy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
11
are going to be talking to the Council members and staff knowstherers a parcel here for development. Ird Iove to have it inlove to squeeze it in there if we could. I think that would bethink we do have an obligation to conduct some of these publicI donrt knoe, if we need to bump il up.
Headla: I don't have the feeling ofwhatrs the difference. That bothers
tha t
that, Ird
neat but Ihearings.
the sense
me.
of urgency at Council and
Dacy: Irm sorry, you said the sense of urgency?
HeadIa: Yes.
Dacy: There is a window of opportunity here $rith this widening of TH 5.r have to believe that if r{e canrt accomplish the rearignment of TH l0land redo Dakota Avenue and so on and put in arL those iifio"ements .naspend x amount of dorrars, then if that window passes, ii's going to bevery difficult to corne back and start alr over ind start *orling-up .plan- r think there is an urgency here. we have an opport;nit! ti workwith_MnDot in trying to accomplish this new realignmeni'. llnpot'is siying,hey chanhassen, make a decision. Are you going to build the street ornot? Therers a window here that we have t; Iook at.
Conrad: Tim, whaErs your druthers on this one?
Erhart: My impression from talking to Council people, theyrre veryserious about getting this intersection at this time. Secondly, Ithe getting intersection improved is priority number one and thisdevelopment, as much as I like it, I lhink it comes second to thatthink we ought to table it.
ElLson: Table.
BatzLi: I donrE have anything further to add.
wildermuth: Table it.
Headla: Table it.
Conrad: Any other comments back to us?
John Karrens: r think werrr be heard at the pubric hearing on this too.
Conrad: I vrould hope so.
think
soI
Emmings: r think denying this would be abusing our discretion. There'sno varid reason to deny it so r don't think we shourd <teny it. r think toapProve it would be sticking our heads in the sand rrhen tlere,s asubstantial possibili.ty that a road could go through the middle of theproject so r think it's appropriate to table it. i arso agree with Laddrscomments about the fact that this is going to be moving along very
qu i ckl y.
Planning Commission
JuLy 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
38
Jack Boarman: I made a comment earlier about plans not being very
expensive, I said they're cheap but I meant if there was a building there,it certainly !,rould be a key factor in the alignment of the road. Sincetherers nothing there, we have plans on paper, it.rs not considered as
heavy or as seriously in affecting the Highway Departmentrs CAD systemthat they're laying out there in geometrics. I would only ask you to join
with us and maybe making the leverage on their CAD system as they lay outtheir geometrics to be a bit more of a range. A biE more flexibility soboth things can go.
Conrad: WerII be real interested in hearing your perspectivel if we havethe alternative of bringing TH 101 in front of your shopping center
because thatrs got to quadruple traffic and Ir11 be interested to hear howyou react. If TH 101 doesnrt go through or if it moves away. I guess ifit doesntt go through, it just doesn'E go through. You take the localtraffic but if TH 101 goes in front of your center, that's just got to bea boom to fillinq that baby up.
Jack Boarman: That sounds very exciting and if you could help this kindof go in front rather than through the heart, that would be great.
zoNING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND SECTIONS 2q-695, 2g-7L5, 2g-774,2g-.195, AND 2O-815 TO PROVIDE FOR MINII'IUM BUILDING AND PARKING SETBACKS
FOR LOTS ADJACENT TO RAILROADS AND RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, CITY OF
CHANHA S S EN.
Conrad: Any questions on this?
John Karrens: This conception, I hope by anybody here, that is a very
expensive piece of road with the devetopment tha!,'s zoned property anddesigned like this. I can see that there ought to be a better way to gettraffic across TH 5 to the site...
Conrad: Werll take you through the process with public hearings and werll
take it through with you as quickly as we can.
Jack Boarman: Just one other comment, I seem to hear people saying ittseither or. I would only ask aI1 of you to say, can both happen? No onetsdisagreeing with the value of the TH 101 issue but letrs not make it aneither or thing. A highway pays no tax base. This certainly will.
Conrad: I think werd all Iike to have you have it there. I think if the
road really did go by, if we could sneak it by, the value is going tobe...
Enmings moved, Erhart seconded that the Planning Commission table SitePlan #88-6 until August 3, 1988. AIl voted in favor and the motion
carr ied .
Planning Commi ss ion
July 6, 1988 - Page
Meeting
39
Dacy: Except when required by the landscaping, Section 20-be the landscaping ordinance.
BatzIi: Where
Dacy: Article
Olsen: As far
is
25,
as
our landscaping screening ?
Section 2g-\L7 6.
J.andscaping it's I tree per 40 feet
Dacy: I think we should just refer to the Article in
at
the
least.
amendment.
talking abouttracks. What am
Emmings:
something
I talking
What brought this to my mind is this.
down here behind that was against the
abo ut ?
We rrere
ra i l road
Conrad: Instant Webb and Lyman Lumber?
Emmings: And they said they were going to have no setback but there was aconservation easement which in effect wound up givi.ng them a 2g fooLsetback. Thatrs what brought it to my mind and I guess there may be other
erays that we $rant to impose easements or other screening because therers
Emmings: One of the things that I wondered if we should do, when wetalked about the off-street parking, there's no minimum setbacks, we saidit is hard wetre still subject to screening requirements. r just wonderedif we should, if I come in as a developer ;nd i read that I don.t haveanything in the setback, I automatically think, by god I can go right upto the edge. I just wonder if there should be something in (a) ana (U)-that just say that they r"rirl however be subject to screening requirementsor conservation easements.
Dacy: We can add like for (a), except where...
Emmings: r donrt know where the screening requirements are. Just so theydonrt look at this and think gee, I can go right up to the edge.
Batzli: So vJhat do you want to add?
Emmings: I donrt know. Jo Ann said it.
oLsen: werrl be adding that you have to meet the requirements of whateverlandscaping requires.
Emmings: Essentially saying there is no minimum setback.
Conrad: When it abuts.
which wi 11
Batzli: Canr E we just say except as provided in our?
Enmings: Right. Anything like that. Just so the person doesnrt thinktheyrre free to go up to the edge. Make them aware of these because whentheyrre looking at this part, theyr re thinking how close can I get andletrs make them aware right there.
Planning Comm i ss ionJuly 6, L988 - page
Meeting
4q
...stuff somewhere and that's going to be a conflict. Theyr Il say I donrthave a setback requirenent. I get to go up to the edge.
Conrad: I think it's good
Emmings moved, Batzli seconded that the planning
approval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment #gg-tl toin Attachment #1 with the following additions:
it in there.
attention right away. Then it vronr t
Commission recommend
amend sections as shown
to have
theirEmmings:
raise the
Yes. Bring it toquestion.
SECTION 1. Add:
d. The minimum setback isyards.twenty-five (25) feet for side street side
wi th
that
SECTIONS 2-7. Add:
d. The minimum setback if fifty (50) feetdistrict without being separated froma street or railroad right-of-v/ay.
bring attention to the factconservation requirements.
when it abuts a residentialthe residential district by
the additions to 1(d)there may be screen i ng
as d i scussed
requ i rements
to
or
BatzIi moved, Enmings seconded to approve
Commission rneeting dated June 15, Iggg asexcept Erhart and HeadIa who abstained and
AII voted in favor and the motion carried.
APPROVAL OE MINUTES:
the Mi nu tes
presented.
the motion
of the PI ann i ngAll voted in favorcarried.
Wildermuth moved, Headla seconded to adjourn the meeting.favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjournei at
Submitted by Barbara DacyCity Planner
AII voted in
14.29 p.m..
Prepared by Nann Opheim
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
SPECIAL MEETING
JULY 13, 1988
Vice Chairrnan Emmings called the meeting to order at.7:35 p.m
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Batz1i and David
Ladd
Head I a
Conrad, Annette EIlson, Steven Emmings, Brian
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Wildermuth and Tim Erhart
STAFF PRESENT: Barbara Dacy, City planner; Jo Ann OIsen, Asst. CityPlanner and Larry Brown, Asst. City Engineer
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
SUBDIVISION OF 7 ACRES INTO TWO LOTS AND ONE OUTTOT AND TO CREATE
64TH STREET CUL-DE-SAC ON PROPERTY ZONED RSE, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE
AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF WEST 64TH STREET AND HWY.ADDITION, GARY REED AND HSZ DEVELOPMENT
A NEW
FAM I LY
41, REED
Conrad noved, BatzIi secondedvoted in favor and the motion
to table thi s
carr ied .
item untj.l Ju]-y 20, L988. ALl
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO LOCATE A CHURCH IN THE
PROPERTY ZONED RR, RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AND
OF HWY. 41 APPROXIMATELY ONE MILE NORTH OF HWY. 5
CHURCH .
RURAL DISTRICT ON
LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE
, WESTSIDE BAPT I ST
Name
Brian Pi ke
Jim Dalhart
Address
Westside Baptist ChurchArchitect for Applicant
Jo Ann OLsen presented the staff report.
Headla: You say they Iooked at the site. Did they take borjngs
that just an opinion?
Olsen: We did not take borings aE that tjme. There was a big
dug with the Lake Ann Interceptor so he did get an idea of whatwere like and then the topography. ?here was area to work, itthat we had not been given any information to prove there was asite out there.
or rs
hole being
the soils
was j ust
boring
Emmings: Is the applicant here and does he want to make a presentation atthis time?
PubLic Present:
PI ann i ng
JuIy 13,
Commission Meet i ng
1988 - Page 2
Brian Pike: yes, I have a
one soil boring. Actuallyhere isn ' t it? Doesnrt it
few things to say about this. We've
two that are in this area. The pond
come across this way?
given heris over
Olsen: It comes along the bottom.
Brian Pike: So is this I50 setback correct with this pond over here?
Olsen: Yes.
Brian Pike: we gave her two in this area and she's asking for a secondsite. This sewer that's coming through right through here is going down52 feet and the man some time ago asked for permission to move their dirtover this line down into this area over here. We had given himpermission to do that so when I brought, you see a letter in there fromMr. Schneewind from R & D Soil Consultants. He said this area, it lookedlike the water table, and he also looked at this hole thatts right here,
and the r,rater table he said looked too low for over here. Then he saidthe only other spot is up in this forest area which is a nature forestIand and we have done everything we could to keep them from knocking thosetrees down with this septic line coming through. fn fact, the forest landthat you see right here used to go out to here and they took out stuffthat they told us they were not going to take out. They're going tosupposedly compensate us for that. we're trying to save these trees and
shers asking us to put, to do a soil boring up in here. We're saying that
$re don't want to put it up in there. I've sought sone advice and somecounsel from other folks and they say that it is a possibility up herealthough Schneewind said he Ehought that the grade was too steep so wedidnrt pursue this. AIso, because we were seeking, as the applicationsays, an opportunity to hook up to the Metro Waste Sewer line that'srunning right through the middle of our property. Originally r^rhen it
became clear that they were going to come right through the middle of ourproperty, we said at that time we would like to hook up. I spoke to alady named Mjss PahI . That was some time ago. Not two months as theIetter states. when I spoke with her she said there could be something
considered called an exception. That's the first time I heard of anexception. To get an exception she said you had to go through your Citybut it r.ronrt be likely that you'11 get this exception until jt's proventhat yourve actually purchased the property and youtre getting ready tobuild so we waited because we did not kno$, how fast hre were going tobuild. Hor", fast ere $rere going to grovr. How soon we needed to move fromthe location that we needed to move from here in Chanhassen. So we waitedand it began to took like, as we did some searching and research, that wecould bu j.ld. we found someone that was wil).ing to finance and we found abuilder that thought that we could put the building up so we plan onproceeding. Slow but sure and werre ready, at least it looks likefinancially, and the builder has designed this design for us. Thjshooking up to the sewer line is the only thing that's holdi.ng us, it lookslike to us. For us to put a septjc system up in this tree growth, it
means knocking out some mature trees Ehat are not going to be replacedvery easily. When we know we're going to hook up to Ehe sewer line in
maybe 19951 is what Miss Pahl first said to us because it's 2Tgg beforethey open up to anybody outside the sewer line. Is that correct?
Planning
July 13,
Commission Meeting
I98I - Page 3
Brian Pike: she mentioned to me 1995 and again, it seems to us that withthis thing going right through the center of our property, that we shouldbe an exception to this rule. we discovered that we would use less thanone household, one residential household. The urban se$rer line is justthe other side of the pond from us. werre not real far from that sewerrine and there iso't anyprace thatis undisturbed except that little r50foot stretch she shows there between the construction rimiE and the pond.Again, that is low rand over there so it would probably require a moirndsystem which again to us is a little bit more money foi a temporary systemthat wiII hold us until the year 2606.
Enmings: I guess the point is that if the Metropolitan Councilwritten us a letter that says they're not going to allow you asexcept ion. They're not going to let you hook up.
has
an
Dacy: At minimum.
Brian Pike: The Metropolitan Councila posi ti.on to me.
has not relayed exactly that firm of
Enmings: Let
Brian Pike:
me tel I
Irve got
You r
the
Irve got a letter dated July I, 1988.
same letter right here.
Erunings: rt says i.n one paragraph, the Metropolitan councir has a letterthat says an outside system courd not be installed to serve the church andan exception wirr not be granted at this time. we canrt get, the planning
Commission is not going to get in a $rrestling match between you and theMetroporitan councir or bet!'reen you and the staff. yourre going to haveto satisfy our staff that youtve got some vray to dispose of thi; sewage.If you can hook up, fine. It makes sense but if you canrt., we're goiig tohave to have the on-site septic systems. There cinit be any two wiys -
about it. Therers no third alternative that r can think of and as iar asall the stuff you,ve told us so far, this is all how, the problems you,vehad getting the Metropolitan council to see the light to do what yol wantto do and that really doesn't concern us. Therers nothing we can do aboutthat.
Brian Pike: About t1et councit?
Bnmings: Right.
Brian Pike: Iiell Met Council has mentioned another option to us thathasnrt been mentioned. In here there's no mention of our other soilborings thatrs given to you. I'm having a struggle definitely and I don'tfeel like I'm having a struggle so much with Mea-Council. Uet Council istelling me that it,s up to this staff.
Enmings: To do what?
Brian Pike: To recommend to them or not to recommend to then and they'resaying they canrt recomnend because of those two possibirities that they
PI ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Mee t j. ng
1,988 - Page 4
disagree with Mr. Schneewind about as being possjbilites.
Emmings: We hire professional consultants because we don't knoe, about
se$rage disposal and we rely on them for their technical expertise and ifit comes down to a showdown between Mr. Schneewind and our City retainedexperts, traditionally we folIow what our experts tell us. That's r.rha t wehired them for. I have to ask the staff if this Mr. Machmeier and...
Olsen: Jim Anderson.
Enmings: And have they said that they think itrs possible that they can
have two on-site systems?
olsen: Right, but rde need the information, the soil borings, to prove it
one way or the other.
Emmings: And who do you get that from?
OIsen: The appl icant.
Brian Pike: We gave them Ehe two. We havenrt heard any comments about
the two because they're still waiting for the other ones up in the trees.
So when it comes down to that subjective of being in the trees, who is
that makes the determination on whether or not those trees come out? Is
that you? Them? Us or Ehe Council or who?
Emnings: I suppose if thatrs your alternative site, there rrouldnrt be any
reason it would have to be disturbed. If you could use the primary site
rdhere there are no trees, you may never need the secondary site. You may
never need it at a1l or you may never need it until you'Il be able to hook
up into the Lake Ann Interceptor. Therers no reason to think right off
hand that yourre ever have to take out a tree if your primary site isbuilt correctly and maintained correctly. That r.rould be what I would say.
Olsen: And Mr. Anderson commented that they wouldn't be clearcutting a
huge area.
Enmings: VIhy do they have to cut anything?
olsen: They don r t. That.rs
Emmj.ngs: we can't process your appljcation. I think what
to us is r.re can't process this application without having
information in. The information isn't in.
just an alternate site but if they
acceptable sites, at least that's
do.
the way weBrian Pike: So you said two
were reading the site.
olsen: Receive the soil borings.
Brian Pike: So they need sojl borings in the trees. Is that an issue by
which we would be tabled and stopped at this point?
staff i.s
aII the
sayr ng
Pl ann i ngJuly 13,
Commission Meeting
198 8 - Page 5
Brian Pike: So two soit borings?
Emmings: f don't kno$r. Whatever they require.
Brian Pike: Two soil borings. The other soil borings, werve neverthem mentioned in all of this. Were they not acceptible? Have theychecked?
we need are the two sets of soil borings withwhich you have not done. you havenrt reallyborings that were taken previously.
had
been
OIsen: What
on the plan,
are two soil
Brian Pike: we showed where they were on the site plan.
the site shown
shoern. Those
Olsen: Right. WhaE we need
where that site is proposed.site so the soil- consultants
is to have on the site plan to sho$, the area
We need to have that area staked out on thecan go out there and see exactly where it is.
BrianpIan.Pike: But we did give you two and we did mark those two on the site
Emmings: That's not what she said. Shethe site plan an outlined area where you
show them where the borings are and that
said she needs to have defined onplan to build your drainfield andand then show the alternative.
Brian Pike: We did that didn,t we?
Emmings:you seen
Ol sen :gotten two
Emmings: It sounds to me likeyou come into the staff officedo you need so we can complete
Brian Pike: yes.
Enmings: Have you done that?
Brian Pike: Yes.
Olsen: Hers been expLained whatrs
Ann?
borings shown.
there I s a communication problem
and just said, herers our plan.our appl icat ion?
need eC .
Have
Werve
ir Jo
soil
here .
Wha t
Have
more
Brian Pike: Itrs just been this issue about the trees. I guess lrvetalked to other people in the city, on the city councir and they believethat up in those trees, those trees shouldn't be taken down so Irve beenhedging and saying that this is an exception. I want my city to make anapplication. Met councir says they canrt do anything until our city staffmakes an appLication to them.
Enmings: glhatrs your understanding?
Olsen: Vlhatr s happened is thaE there has been a...
PIann ing
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 6
Brian Pike: A block -
Olsen: A communicatj.on block. What Irve been saying is we need,to go to Met Council, the only way that they're going to accept iLand Use Plan Amendment, is if there's no way that he can providesites so I've asked the applicant some information to confirm it.been under the opinion that maybe we don't even need to do that.
for ust, that
sePtic
He has
ftnmings: Itrs pretty clear to me though, what needs to be done here isyou have to identify the tvro sites that you propose for the septic. Getyour soil borings in so the staff can look al tLem with our consultants
and sre can make an informati.ve decision then as to whether or not wervegot sites here that can be used for the septic system or not.
Batz1i: I think what hers trying to say is he submitted one set ofborings and if that area is not acceptable, he doesn,t want to have to go
and take a second set up in the trees. I think what he's actually tryingto ask the staff is, have they examined those soil borings so is there atleast one primary site available.
Brian Pike: Because Met Council says if there,s nothardship case. Theyrve also mentioned another thing
swap that theyrre wiJ-ling to do and that r.re weren ' tthe other day.
tr,ro , then we a re ato us about a land
informed of until j ust
Emmings: It seems to me that all this stuff ought to be done before we
Look at it. It seems to me that that canrt be resolved at the PlanningCommission. Ladd, I'm going to ask for your guidance on this. It would
seem to me that we're looking at issues that hre donrt normally look at.This stuff usually gets ironed out before we get it and that's further
evidence to me that the thing ought to be tabled until everybody has theiract together and then we can look at it. what do you think?
Conrad: Yes. We need the two separate sites.
Brian Pike: We're asking to go hook up tosaying that the septj.c sites to us aren't
necessary because, as vre look at the sitethe site, it is a site that is a hardshipas an exception.
the Metropolitan Council. werre
necessary and theyr re not
and as she vrent and looked at
case and it erould be considerd
tsnmings: But then go convince them that you should be hooked up and thenbring your plan back and that's fine. We wonrt erorry about the septicsites.
Brian Pi ke:Convince who?
Metropolitan Counc i I .
Itrs these two that I have to convince.
Emmings: The
Brian Pi ke:
Pl ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 7
Emmings: Okay, staff first and then Metropolitan Council. you'll
do that but we canrt do anything. Thatrs preliminary to coming in
Headla: Yourve got to do step I before you move to step 2
Dacy: The soil borings need to be done period.
have to
here.
Conrad: We donrE know if the first borings are good or bad and you'resaying that you donrt want to do the second ones untir the first ones arein and r think we need to see both. we can 90 to Metroporitan councit andsay itrs.a hardship. r guess r r.rould have a hard time laying that therersa hardship if you have to take down a tree and r think ,"ire "s sensitiveas any community in the Twin cities when you tatk about taking down trees.we r.rant to preserve trees rike you do but if you erere asking lne if takingdown I or 2 trees or something is a hardship Ehat would req;ire us to goto Met councir and say this is a rear hardshj,p, r think r wourd have ahard time saying that. rf you said we have to lever 4 acres of property,that may be a hardship but Irm not hearing that. youire not givin! us-enough information to make any kind of decision. yourre not pioviclingstaff with the minimum that our ordinances require for us to processanything so I think it.s just best, before we set direction and say weagree wi.th you that it is a hardship or we disagree. r think you iearryhave to get all sets of information into us.
Brian Pike: I guess when they asked us forthe disturbed property from Metro Councilrscouldn' t see two si tes and so that !,ra s theCouncil for a variance.
two sites and we looked at aIIline going through, webasis for applying to Met
Conrad: Our staff is saying there are.
theyr re saying there are two sites so Iwhoever's helping you do the engi neeringyou've got to narrow in on that.
With their technical adv i cethink between you and your,
and the city staff, I think
Jim Dalhart: Irm working with the church. I couldn't find in theordinance but I believe it does say that you need city approval totrees in the forested areas. you basically answered that you lookacres as large quantities?
zonrng
r emov eat 4
Conrad: No. I made that stuff up. Don,E hold me to the actual wordsthat I used. The key, and we spent some time making sure that in theunsewered area we donrt want to pollute. Therefore, our new ordinance,and itrs relatively new, requires two alternative sites. A primary siteand if that one fails somewhere down the line, we want to know thattherers a secondary site. We don,t want to encourage pollution. Whetherit be from a house or a church or industry. That,s the reason for thatordinance and itrs relatively new and we're doing things that I thinkdeserves the environment that your church would like and the communityIikes. That's r.rhat Chanhassen is asking for right now. We have to knowif there are those alternative sites. Once we know that, then we canproceed. If we know that therers not a secondary site availabl-e, we canreact to that but right now we.donrt knou, and that's rrhy werre saying wecan't even provide you any advice right nohr. we need to know if Lleie's a
PI ann i ng
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 8
secondary site.
through with our
again.
That I s sort of
staff and your
the next step that
engineering people
yourve got to
and come back
go
to us
Jim DaIhar t:unit buildingto it. That's
Emmings: You have to only identify it onit but you have to identify it.
Part of the churchr s concern is simply...
and a site in the trees they $rould have toanother reason the church rel unctantwas
the site. You donrt have to use
This
pumpto go
is the f irst
Probably upthat way.
Conrad: But you wouLd be forced to use it if the first system failed.
Brian Pike: According to Met Council r then they woul-d look at it if ourfirst system fails. Is that right? Is that rrhat you read on that letter?
Olsen: If your system fails and therers an alternate site, I betieve thatthey would wish that you use that.
Enmings: You don't know how they're going to be looking at that. MetCouncil doesn't exactly stay constant on issues either and you get I0years doern the road and you have a failure in your septic system, they may
have a whole different idea that yes, they would accept you as anexception at that t.ime. Maybe at time you'd be pushed out even furtherbut therers just no way to know.
Headla: Why are rre spending so much time talk j.ng about Met Council? Wearenrt even part of it. Until they satisfy the staff requirements, youdonrt do anything so listen to the staff and then theyrre going to workwith you and if there isnrt a site available, then you've got their totalsupport in going to Met Council. But by doing an end run on them, I thinkyouire just delaying the activity.
Brian Pike: Sir, werre not trying to do an end run on them.
Headla: That's what it appears when they say you've got to do thesethings and Met Council says yourve got to have their support.
Brian Pike: The way this thing proceeded was, I was told to come up rditha letter from a soil consultant that said there isnrt thro sites. I went
and brought a soil consuLtant out there. He looked and he said, wellthere isn't. So I sent the letter in and they she went out there with theCity Engineer and they looked over the property. They didn't do I believeany test. No tests so on his opinion, it came do$rn to two opinions and Ican understand taking the City opinion. I wasnrt trying to do an end run.
The guy, my person that I was willing to pay to do the soil borings saidthere aren't two sites out there. You said your City Engineer said thereare.
Hnmings: Did he
Brian Pike: He
base his opinion on bor ing s?
upon, no.based it
Planning
July 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 9
Emmings: You can hire an expert to say anything.
Brian Pike: We hired him to come out and do soilwhere? He said all of this is disturbed land.
borings and he sa id
Emmings: Maybe
can identify the
Communicate wi th
Brian Pi ke:your guy andlot of this
Olsen: We have only an approximate
Brian Pike: Nothingrs been set in
by coordinating with our consultants and staff,likely sites and your man can do the borings.the staff and get them what they want.
We did and she said probably the end resultour guy going out there on the property andcornmunication has been in the last week here.
of thisIook it
maybe they
is hav i ngover. A
Enmings: I've got one question on this.about the extension of Lake Lucy Road outin relation to this property?
Erom time to time I've heardto TH 41. Where does that come
location.
stone from what wetve been told.
in here.oI sen :
BatzIi:
The
Are
approximate location is
you going to be reserving the right-of-way?
an easement? We are reserving it at this time but therersprevent them fron building on it at this time.
OIsen: Asnothing to
Jim Dalhart: The church couldnrt build on there?
Olsen: Not if we donrt have an official right-of-way.
Dacy: We wouldnrt reconmend it.
Emmings: FirsE of all, doesor is there a motion?
anyone else have any other comments on this
Conrad moved, BatzIi seconded that the planning
until the applicant provides the required soilacceptable septic sites on the property to thefavor and the motion carried.
Commission
boring data
City Staff.
table this itemlocating twoAII voLed in
Head Ia :
pI ayi ng
Do you know vrhat the Met Council is doing? They just keephardnose? It seems like. this wouLd be an ideal situation.
Dacy: The Lake Ann Facility Agreement has a lot to do with that. Toallor^r one property to hook up, you can have a lot of implications fromMet council's standpoint for all of the properties al,ong the MUSA rinethere. Number one, therers no acreage available to lana swap. Numbertwo, the City has to do a parcel by parcel analysis of the entire
MUSA Iine if we hrant to add addi.tional acreage in so it's going to be a
the
PI ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 10
timely process
Headla: So itthat affect it?
with no guarantee for
isnrt just the aye or
any applicant to get acreage added.
nay, therers a lot of other things
Dacy: Yes.
PUBLIC HEARING:
REPLAT OF LOT 6 OE SUN RIDGE ADDITION INTO TWO LOTS (2.5 ACRES AND 39.8
ACRES) ON PROPERTY ZONED A-2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE AND LOCATED AT THE END
OF THE CUL-DE-SAC OF SUN RIDGE COURT, L/2 MTLE NORTH OF LYMAN BOULEVARD ON
AUDUBON ROAD, ROD GRAMS.
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this item.
Enmings: Barb, just one question.
the 40, he can only put tr,ro housescorrect?
If he
on alL
add the
of tha t
2S
60
acres
acres,
out
is
there tothat
Dacy: That's correct. Therers one existing house here so he,d be allowed
one here and then one still on the big lot.
Emmings: He could divide j.t up anyway he wanted to but...
and thaE,s it.Dacy: He gets two more units
Emmings: Is the applicant present?
Dacy: I donrt know what happened to him. Al-though he does, he is theanchor for Channel 9 so hers probably at hrork.
Emmings:
this. It Are there any members of theis a public hearing.
public that are here to comment on
BatzIi moved, Ellsonfavor and the motion
to close the publ ic
The public hear i ng
hearing. All voted in
was closed.
secondedcarried.
Headla: Therers a driveway coming
map where that woul-d be there?
off of Audubon. Can you show me on the
Dacy: As part of the original plat approval, I think that r^ras right here
between these tvro lots. The road entrance is just to the north of thatand there is a driveway to an existing house to the north of this site.
Headla: Therers a couple of homes there isn't there?
Dacy: yes. The
being cons tructed
existing house here. There's thathere and then this lot is built on
huge house that I s
and thi s one too.
Planning
July 13,
commission Meeting
1988 - Page 11
Emmings: Isnrt there one more further to the west?
Dacy: Yes. I think that one is too.
Headla: r thought. there was a driveway exit off the road to the south ofthe last home.
Dacy: To the south of this one?
Headla: The last home that's there.
Dacy: Another one of those lots is rightAudubon. There is the street and the twoapproved in the original plat.
at the base of Ll.man and
driveway accesses. That was
Headla: Okay, I just want
wasn I t really sure. Theystarted looking for silos
should be.
to make sure. When I stood in that driveway Isaid silos on this one drawing we got and Iand I wasn't quite sure that I was right where
to
we
I
Dacy: The drawing is referring to the existing house up over on the eastside of the property.
Headla: I didn't have any notes here so, I donrt have anymore.
Batzli: I eras going to ask about condition 4. The developer agreesextending Sun Ridge Court. wouldn't this be the type of thing wherereserve a right-of-way over Lot I so we can extend that?
Dacy: That already is of record.
Batzli: There is a right-of-lvay over Lot 1?
Dacy: Yes.
Batzli: Itrs just not shown on Ehe, I guess therers a dotted line. Thatrsalready reserved, that right-of-eray?
Dacy: Yes. Therers a 60 foot easement.
Batzli: I saw the dotted line there. I didn't knov, that was alreadyreserved. I thought that was like contemplated type road. That tas myonly question.
Ellson: It looks fine to me.
Conrad: Barbara, the reason vre can not require the applicant to put aroad into the 39 acres is, when there is potential access in the futureaod/or werre designating it as an outlot? What is it that you hang yourhat on to say v,re donrt need access to it at this point?
Dacy: We can hang the hat on a couple of hatracks. One being, theordinance does allov, a private drive for a landlocked piece in the rural
Pl ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meet i ng
1988 - Page 12
area. I didn't refer toconditioning this to be
access situation can be
require extension of the
Conrad: Good. No other
that but thatis possib].e. Number two is
an outlot and to remain unbuildable until
resolved with the acreage to the east, we
street at that t ime.
that by
an
can
questions.
Emmings: I just noticed when we were out there in the circle of thecul-de-sac, the sides were washing, probably from the rain we just had.I just wondered, do they have to put curb around? Are they required to docurb out there?
Dacy: In the rural area, no.
Emmings: I donrt have anything else. Unless anyone else has any other
conrments, is there a motion on this?
Dacy: I was just thinking of Mr. Batzli,s idea. I guess it wouldn't hurt
to make a statement conditioning to rededicate the 30 feet on Lot I just
to make sure.
Batzli: Who has the Iot to the west there of
if that's still under the
that line on
subdividerrs
Lot 1?
olrnershiP orDacy: I donrt
not.
know
Batzli: But that's already platted too?
Dacy: Right. Just to clarify it so it doesntt get lost.
Emmings: So yourre asking that the motion be amended to include in
paragraph 4 the statement that the existing easement what?
Dacy: The existing 30 foot future street easement along the west lot lineof Lot I be reindicated on the plat of the 2nd Addition.
Headla moved, Batzli seconded that the Planning Commission approve
Subdivision Request #87-25 based on the plat stamped "Received June 17,
1988" and subject to the following conditions:
I. Compliance with the recommendations of Mr. Machmeier and Mr. Anderson.
2. Redesignation of
2 Dedication of theWilliams Pipel ine.
proposed Lot
final plat
The developer agrees to extending Sun Ridge Court to the southerly
Property boundary of Outlot A if an application is pursued for OutlotA. This extension of Sun Ridge Court shall be at the sole expense ofthe applicant and shall be consistent with the City's standards. The
2 as an outlot.
of a 75 foot utility easement over the
4
Planning
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 13
5
existing 39 foot future street easement aLong the r.rest lot line of Lotl be reindicated on the plat of the 2nd Addition.
The applicant shatl supply the City Engineer for approval a grading,drainage and erosion control plan for each Lot as part of thebuildingt permit process.
AIl. voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR PROPOSED SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE ON PROPERTY
ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCATED AT I88OO WEST 78TH, LY},IAN
LUT.IBER.
and
SrrE PLAN REVTEW FoR A 39,000 SOUARE FooT ADDTTTON To AUTOMATED BUTLDTNG
COMPONENTS BUILDING ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND
LOCATED AT 18800 WEST 78TH STREET, LYMAN LUMBER.
Public Present:
Name Address
John Waldren
Dwight Larson
Alan Nordby
Jo Ann OI sen
and the Site
Appl icant
BRW
Eden Prairie
presented the staff report on both the Conditional Use permit
PIan Rev iew.
Emmings: One thing it said that kind of confused me. Itgoing to move a fence and somehow that reduces the amountthe site? I donrt understand ho$, that...
said theyr reof coverage on
Olsen: One of the original plans, the fence vras Iocated up into here.
Emmings: The point is Jo Ann, isnttsurface taken as a percentage on thethe fence is, there wouldnr E be more
coverage the amount of impervious
amount of land. Regardless of r.rhereland.
Olsen: No, they are removing lot coverage. They're movingan outdoor storage area and moving it up into there so they
9reen space.
Emmings: So they are converting
the
are
fence i nto
prov id ing
some rmpervtous area
sti I1 debatable but
to open?
yes.Olsen: Technically impervious is
PI ann i ng
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 14
Emmings: Is the applicant here? Do you wish to add anything to thestaffrs report or have any comments on the conditions that have beenimposed by Staff in their report?
John Waldren: I'm $rith Lyman tumber Company. The only thing that I mightadd is that somehow we are viewing this as a continuation of developmenithat we originally talked to Chanhassen in 1975 when we located here. Theactual construction started in 1979. For your infornation, the buildingthatrs going to be added on to the ABC building is going to be exactlylike that. Itrs going to be painted the same color. Same precastconcrete. AII that. This one shows the landscaping that is required andthatrs not that werre proposing to do. What Jo Ann showed you up here anddouble the trees that are on there. I think it would be good for DwightLarson from BRW to show you the landscaping plan that werve been talkingto Jo Ann and Barb. Irve added a few to that because they said they'dprobably like it better if we could do some clustering of the trees andhave some evergreens in there and things like that. Dr^right can show youthat. I donrt know if you want to get into it. There's a couple ofconditions on there that lde had questions on.
Emmings: Why don't you go ahead.
John Waldren: Dvright can go over the landscaping and then there's, wherethe parking is, it caLls for curb and gutter and he rranted to talk about
whether that really does impede the drainage flow there because it's rightnext to the gravel storage area. Basicall,y it was just to show you theclustering and your access in. Dwight?
Dwight Larson: For the record my name is Dwight Larson and Irm with BRW.I don't think I need to dwell greatly on the landscaping because I thinkit.rs pretty well covered. I will just say, as Jo Ann has said, along thisside, the south and the east side of the site, the applicant is pretty
much doubling the amount of plant tree material that the ordinance
requires and at the request of staff, we have used a mixture of conifers,Black HiII Spruce in this case, with Red MapLes. Also at their request,instead of simply having a line of trees, wetve clustered them as shown onthis plan. With that I would like to move along to condition 12 on thesite plan recommendations which has to do with curb and gutter along the
edge of the parking area. As this run shows, the applicant is proposing
to pave this parking area which is required by the ordinance and use agravel storage and staging area. Condition 12 in the staff memo
recommends that curb and gutter be placed along the edge of the parking
area. Normally when curb and gutter is used, iE's used for one or tworeasons. One is as a barrier or two, to hetp drai.nage. In this case,since therers no sidewalk along here. Therers no street. Therers no areafor pedestrian would normally would be walking or an area that ere need toProtect like landscaping, it doesnrt seem necessary that we would need abarrier at that point. As far as the issue of drainage, the drainage
scheme for this entire area is for the runoff to surface flord, sheet flowin this direction to a detention pond and an inlet in this corner. Byputting the curb and gutter along here, we woul-d actually be interruptingthat normal flow and instead of having sheet flow across the staging are;,we would have a situati.on where the flow would be concenErated dovrn in
Planniog
July 13,
Commission Meet i ng
198 8 - Page 15
this area which would produce more potential for erosion and those sortsof problems. So on behalf of the applicant, I would like to request thatthe item 12, that that one be deleted so as not to require that curb andgutter be required along the paved area. John, would you like me todiscuss the fencing issue also? Okay. The conditions in both the special
use application and the site plan application have required and theapplicant is providing a wooden fence that's completely opaque all alongthe east and the south sides but the applicant is concerned a little bitwith vandalism. With a wooden fence the slats could easily be pulled down
and people could more easily get through a wooden fence than a chainlinked fence. The applicant would like the sections, I believe itts item3 in the site plan memo and I think itrs number 2 in the special userequest that have to do with removing the chain link fence. The applicantwould like to have a chain link fence immediately behind the wooden fenceso that it wouldn't be visible from outside of the site but yet wouldprovide the protection that he needs for aII of the merchandise that hewould be storing.
Emmings: So the height of that chainlink fence would be 6 feet also?
Dwight Larson: Is that right John? It v,rould be the same height as the
wood fence but it would be behind the wood fence and not visible from thestreet. I would like to look at the sight lines that will be providedwith the fence that the applicant wiII b;ifd. The top drawing would bethe view from 78th Street from the frontage road and you can see from the3 l/2 foo|' eye height on the road with a 6 foot fence and an 8 foot stackof lumber or whatever they would be storing in here, even if it were movedover immediately adjacent to the berm that the applicant is proposingr youcould see that stack clearly would not be visible from the street. The
same situation applies on the east side of this site.
Emmings: Aregets stacked?
you representing to us that 8 feet is high as any lumber
John Waldren: The designated use for that area is a staging area whichtould be the loads are put together to take out to the job sites and those
have to go on the truck bed and the highest they can go is a 8 foot level .
So that would be out in that area. In the area thatts to the north where
werre screening a lot of the east side, you r{i11, if you drive up there,you tdill still see some of the tops of the bunks of Lumber back in throughthe yard there. Itrs just that as Ehe yards and trees mature, you'Il seeless and less of that area but out front, yes it will be what fits on atruck and thatrs 8 foot high. As Dwight is showing, if you put it rightto the edge and that would be the last place we'd put it because then we
vrouldn' E. r,rant to go any further down the staging area with it. Where thetrucks get Ioaded is at the other end of this.
Dwight Larson: Unless you have any questions for John or myself, I
believe tha t.'s all thaE v,re vrant t.o present.
Emmings: Before r./e open it up to any more comments, do you want to reactto the two proposals that theyrve made. Number 12 on the curb and gutter?
PI ann i og
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeti ng
1988 - Page 1,6
Olsen: I I lI deferfine hrith us.
that one to Larry but as far as the fencing. That's
Brown: The curb and gutter, after being revie$red from the City Engineer,he had stated that the curb and gutter, number one wiII help maintiin thepavement eod from disruption. Number t$ro, the plans show a storm sewersystem, a manhole is shown about in the middle of the driveway for theproposed parking area and it was the City Engineer's feeling that thedrainage could be directed from this pariing-lot area to thit manhole soit wourd serve as a catch basin. rnstead of having sheet flow across thestaging area, have it picked up by that underground storm se$rer system androute it through that system. That was the reason for the curbing. Thisalso would, as Dwight eluded to, we felt that. it was an advantage to havea curb there. To have traffic flow concentrated so they would have adefined area and not be free to enter the staging area at any particularpoint. ThaE was a strong recommendation.
Alan Nordby: I live in Eden prairie on the north side of the lumber yard.
My question I guess is, is this goinq to increase the volume of traffic?There will be lumber and so forth in that area beyond what it iscurrently. As to the letEer that you received, we too have concerns aboutthe amount of light and the amount of noise that i.re had at nightparticularly and obviously do not $ranE that to increase and would preferto have it decreased.
Emmings: Is there traffic from this?
Alan Nordby: No, the traffic within that. What theyt re doing is they.renoving that lumber r^rith the forklifts and so forth and aE 4.qg-5.00 in the
morning we hear this bang, bang, bang, crash, bang. This type of stuffthat has a tendency to make it hard to sleep. That r,ra s my concerns. Iftheyrre going to increase the noise level of traffic in the interior.
Enmings: Maybe Mr. waldren, could you address that?
John Waldren: The hours that we do rrork there vary because vre'resupplying the construction industry and it's a seasonal business. Thecopy of the letter suggested to restrict the hours from 7:30 to TzAA p.m.at night. For an example hrhat $rould happen, number one we probably wouldlose a lot of customers because aI-L our competitors are able to be on thejob site between 6aA0 aod '7290 io the morning so we wouldnrt be able togive the service to our customers. Number two, if we didntE start r.rorkuntil 7:30, at that time of day on TH 5, the t.raf f ic is backed up all theway to Chanhassen so it would be 10:90 by the time we got to some jobsites-
Emmings: His question, as I heard it was, rrith the addition thatrs beingmade here going to increase the amount of traffic or the amount of noise-coming out of that over a level that it is now?
John Waldren: I dontt know exactly what yourre asking because in one case
$rer re cutting down the yard space toward that end of the yard. At Ieastwerre knocking 30 to 40 or 2? of our lot coverage we,re knocking off in
Planning
JuIy 13.
Commission Meeting
198I - Page 17
that direction of the yard which will put it up in the front part oyard. Werre using it for a staging area so the trucks are gettingin the morning and youtre going to have the most lrork traffic right
because iErs going to be loading a whole bunch of trucks.
f the
1 o aded
there
Emmings: So some of
end of the site?
your forklift guys erill in fact be moving to the TH 5
John waldren: Some of them would but I honestly canrt teII you exactlywhich way itrs going to go because vrer Ee doing this expansion because lheplace is getting more tovrards capacity with what,s theie right now sothere will be some increased business that's coming out of ihere but thedelivery times are limited. we cantt go onto most of the job sites beforea certain time in the morning with the derivery activities but there aregoing to be times where the contractors r.rant to have their, mostcontractors want stuff out in one day. If we canrt get it, they gosomeplace e1se. I can slmpathize with you guys right across the way but Idonrt think werre doing anything thaE's against the use of that site.
Emmings: I think we can also assume that they're not increasing the sizeof their building so they have less work to do.
John Waldren: Werre increasing the size of the millwork building, notthe lumber yard part of it. The millwork buj,Iding is actually thefacility thatrs at capacity right novr. This looks like the lastdevelopment on Ehat site because vre I re at maximum so we figured we mightas well do it all at one time and werre done with it.
Emmings: Anyonethat wants to be
have further comments here? Is there
heard on this from the public?anybody else here
Bat zl i moved ,favor and the
Conrad: Out
granted more
OIsen: It I s
f ile. . .
Conrad seconded
motion carried.
of cur iousi ty, the
impervious su r face
to close the publ ic
The publ i.c hear i ng
hearing. AII voted in
was closed.
approved, we
not really clear why. We did check aII the Minutes in the
original. si te plan rrras
than bre shoulcl have.
Conrad: But it looks like
are appropriate to fulfilltwo concerns. In terms ofLarry, in your mind, is it
there?
the applicant i.s doing some things that I thinkthe intent of that ordinance. I guess I've gotthe drainage and the curb, I'm not sure yet.a real strong conviction that we have t,he curb
Brown: I guess I would say that iErs not a real strong conviction, no.Normally, as Dr,right pointed out, the curb is normally essentially forsafety reasons. The reasons that are stated are still valid but if thatcurb was not Ehere, i t's certainly not. . .
Planning
JuIy 13,
Commission Meet i ng
1988 - Page 18
Conrad: Do we improve drainage by having
anything by having the curb there? Thereengineer the water through the manhole andare rde improving the drainage?
the curb there? Do we improveare ways to engineering tooff to the holding wherever but
Broern: By having the manhole that's showncatch basin and having that drainage picked
System is no longer having to run over that
Conrad: And is that good or bad?
on the plan, turned into a
up through the storm se$rergravel staging area.
Brorrn: That is, in my opinion, good because once the water has atendency, werve all seen the tendency of pavement to be affected by water
due to freeze-thav, cycles and therefore itrs better to get that water as
soon as we can into a storm sewer system and have it conveyed through thestorm sewer system versus having it run over land into a gravel surfaceinto or along side and have it puddle alongside the edge of the bituminous
and go through the freeze-thaw cycle and have a ragged section ofbituminous. Normal practice woulC like to get that into the storm sewer
system as quickly as possible. Not that we have 25t slopes out here thatare going to cause an erosion problem but we usually like to see it in thestorm ser.rer system.
Conrad: The second and only other issue is the noise. I do emphathizewith the neighbors and even though they are in Eden Prairie they still arevery close to Chanhassen. Eden prairie folks work in Chanhassen. They doa lot of things here. They spend their money in downtown. Irm concernedwith their impression. I think the noise is a factor to me. I guess a5:00 construction site across from homes is a problem. I don't kno$, thatthis application is goj.ng to change anything yet it's also a time that we
can take a look and say should we do something about that noise? Becauseit is, they are doing what we deemed that area can do, I think theapplicant is on fairly sound ground yet on the other hand, hours ofoperation is certainly within our conErol. when therers not much of atransition area, you can only have railroad tracks Ehere. I'11 ask theneighbor, vrhat kind of noise are you experienci.ng? Are you talking about,is this a frequent occurrence? Is this every morning? Is it during the
summer I suspec t?
Alan Nordby: It's typically during the summer, the noise. I would saypractically every morning.
Conrad: And rrhen you say 5zOA, do you mean 52Og ox are you exaggerating?
AIan Nordby: No. Generally it's somewhere inbetwen 4.gO and sagg that itstarts. I vrould say at least 3 days out of the 5 it starts by 5,99.
Conrad: Barbara or Jo Ann, I suppose the only thing that we have at ourdisposal to change this erould be berming or limit hours.
Olsen: Itrs real 1ow in the back. It is heavily vegetated down there.
Conrad: So berming I s ou!?
PL ann ing
July 13,
Commission Meeting
I988 - Page 19
Probably not practical. Whatterms of hours of operation? Do
our standards for industrial
have any?
i t's a
the
Olsen: Berming hrould prevent sound more than the vegetation...
Conrad:
area in are
we
Olsen: We usually Iimit hours to the contractorrs yard whereconditional use. I donrt know that we have limited hours inindustriaI...
Conrad: Annette, go ahead. Irm just going to Leave it there for the timebeing. I dontt know Steve. I donrt know r.rhat to say on this one. Ithink 5:00 noise is a problem, in my mind and although this particularrequest I canrt say is going to change so I donrt know that thisapplication for expansion should be held up. yet on the other hand, itrsthe only thing that we can review noise as it affects neighbors and morethan-likely I'd like to hear what other people are thinking in terms ofthe impact of the noise in the neighborhood- to the north.
EIIson: I think yourre probably right although I think the time to haveasked him was when he originally cane and wanted a site in chanhassen. rdontt think you can after, what was it 1975 or something, when theystarted and we said, go right ahead. Be a lumber yard. Be in Chanhassen.
You know the builderrs requirements and to come back 8 years later andsay, by the way we don't like the noise that comes with your business. Ithink if you're realty concerned hrith that, it should be right when they
come in. If you want a lumber yard in Chanhassen, say 7.39. Now do youstill want to build here or not? I dontt think !{e can say, build here,give you aII these four phases approved and then later on come back andsay...
Conrad: And there vreren' tthat time ei ther.any neighbors across the railroad tracks at
EIIson! That's another thing I was going toright next to the area $rhere it is zoned fromelse, thatrs al-so their responsibility. WhoTo look into things like that too.
say. When someone bui ldsresidential to someth i ngare going to be my neighbors?
Conrad: But empathize with the neighbors $rho moved in and they,re notgoing to check and say do you work aL 5269 in the morning so on the otherhand, buyer beware is something they should be aware but really, aEe yougoing to 90 over and say, what kind of expansion? Are you going to realLy!'rork at 5.gg in the morning?
Ellson: I think they probably were right from the inception. Being alumber yard, thatrs probably year round so I canrt see limiting theirhours. I think thatrd be terribLe business for them. It'd be awful of usto come back and say, now cut off 2 hours in the morning and 4 hours atnight or something like that. I think they've been a good industry forthe community. I'm impressed that theyrve gone above and beyond some ofthe fencing because I don,t like the wire fences much and they're puttingin the opaque fence. Theyr re doing extra trees and landscaping ani they-
PI ann i ngJuly 13,
Commission Meeti ng
1988 - Page 20
seem to be following every one of the staffrs recommendation as possibre.
Here we just had somebody who fought tooth and nail in not trying tocooperate with us. r've seen their history and itrs very cooperative andI like their plan. I'd like to see it go and that iEts approved. I cansee allowing the curb and gutter. If the City Engineer thinks that thatrsimportant, than I would think itrs important. I would waive it if itwasnrt a very strong conviction on his part.
Batzli: I think we need a 35w type traffic noise barrier, is what weprobably really need but since that's not going to happen. I dontt knowwhat to do about the noise. I can empathize because I live in aneighborhood thatrs being built and every morning, arr summer for the lastcouple years at about 6:30, which isntt as early as this gentleman isbeing waken up, but the graders start grading and the carpenters startpounding. Itm kind of going to miss t.hem I think erhen theyr re gone but inthe meantime it's aggravating and I empathize with that and I donrt knowlrhat to do about it. I canrt help you Ladd. I did have a question aboutcondition lI for Larry. He wants to see details for the proposed controlstructure on the southeast corner of the proposed staging area. I didn't
knor., what he was talking about there.
Brown: The plans shor.r, if you look on page 2 of the plan set, the plan
shows the ponding area, a proposed control structure, a catch basin withrestrictive plate. My motive there and I made reference in one of theother conditions, they are hooking into the existing catch basin systemalong the frontage road and Irm real concerned about the capacity of thedolrnstream line that goes out to TH 5 ultimately. Since that is the case,I need more detail on that structure to find out what kind of flow isgoing to be going through there.
Batzli: Does the applicant here know what he needs to see by this
language?
Dwight Larson: Yes.
Batzli: Because I didn't know. I guess Irm all in favor of allowing themto put a chain link fence hidden behind their wooden fence tbat theyrrerequired to do. I think that condition L3 of the site plan should notonly comply with the conditions of the Building and Eire Inspector butapplicable law and those are my comments. Otherwise I think it's a goodplan. I like the fact that they.re finally putting maple trees in thereand I then I noticed that the staff wanted to put something else in too,but okay.
Headla: I don'E want to restrict their working hours. We wouldnr t do itfor the Press. We $rouldnrt do it for Dataserv but Itd like to work the
Problem in a different way. Ladd, you asked the question and I neverheard the answer to the gentleman from Eden prairie. What kind of noisedo you hear ?
AIan Nordby: Typically r^,ha E I hear is the clankj ng and banging of theforklift Eractors and I donit know if iErs dropping the large pallets oflumber or what.. Therers banging and crash type of noises that Irm
PI ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 2l
assuming itrs the dropping of large pallets of Iumber.
Headla: You know some way you could work that problen to reduce that typeof noise, assuming theytre dropping their loads of lumber? Is that areasonable thing to do? Is there someway we could work out that problem?
John Waldren: Probably where some of that is coming from, Iike say a railcar is sitting there and theytve got make sure they're got it seeded onthe forks good so they hit the side of it. Itrs not too often whereyourre dropping the lumber. you want to get it in as good of shape as you
can but usually what. theyr re doing in boxcars like that... ?hey might be,they stop to do something and the forks go down to the ground because it'sa hazard to leave them up. So everytime you get out of the forklift, theydrop their forks down. Ird have to go and walk around the yard and listento the noises and see exactly what somebody is doing.
Headla: I really think that's a nuch better way to r"rork the problem andmaybe itrs just if the operator's aware of the noise. Training of anoperator. You might get more results, minimize the problem that way thanputting up your berm or whatever. Ird kind of like to see that looked atSee some operator training if you feel the operators can reduce that typeof noise.
John Waldren: Is the worse problem at 5:90 rather than at night then?
Alan Nordby: Typical).y,noises, railroad traffictime of day.
because it is so early
or anything else, that
are no other
obvious at tha t
and there
i t' s more
Headla: Is there any reason that we couldnr t have them put some
landscaping in the back? Some of the trees there? Even some maples.
Something that gror.rs fast and they give you quick cover.
Olsen: There are some existing...
John Waldren: The only part that's not covered right now is to cover therailroad where it comes onto the property.
Headla: How high is that?
Olsen: It's mature vegetation. It tooks like what's up in front.
Headla: The onehigh. I can see
wondering if you
the same effect.
thing I think should be in there is your lights are awfuL
why you wouJ.d put them that way at one time but now Irmwouldnrt lower them on the poles. I think you could get
John Waldren: Werre planning on doing is any lights pointing
direction, werre planning on either noving them to the other
them south than end up putting lighting on the far side.
in
s ide
tha t
and puE
Headla: So there shouldnrt be any visible then to the north?
PI ann i ng
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeti ng
1988 - Page 22
John Waldren: Werre willing to change that around. We weren't aware thatit was causing a problem.
Alan Nordby: Typically it's in the r,rintertime when the foliage drops offthe trees that it's a problem.
Headla: And that's when the lights are on most the time-
for secur i ty .John Waldren: We keep the lights on
HeadLa: Thatrs all I have.
Hnmings: I would like to, if it makes sense, I would like to addcondition to the conditional use permit number 3 that we grant theconditional use permit as long as there's compliance h,ith all theconditions in the site plan. Just so those two are tied together.that make sense to do that?
a
Emmings: I guess I basically feel like the noise is unfortunate andI donrt know what to do about it either. I donrt think their hours ofoperation should be curtailed. I know there are mornings at my house whenIrm awaken by traffic on TH 7 where I wished people vrouldnt t drive dor,rn
TH 7 and this may be a little different than that but I think Annette isexactly right. I think the time to look at this was when this first camein. Hers got a huge investment out there and they're probably operating
now pretty much the way they were back then and I donrt see that this isgoing to, it's not like they're doubling their business out there or Eheoutside business that makes the noise or somethinq like that. IErs notthat big a leap. I just think itrs just awfully hard to deal with thisand I think Dave is exactly right. If they can be a lit.tle sensitive
and I think they've sho$rn that they are. They'11 move the Iights. Theyr reputting up two fences which I think is pretty extraordinary that theyrrewilling to do that. If they could be sensitive to their operations in theearly morning hours to curtail some of that noise, Ehat rrould be the best
way to solve that problem to the extent it can be solved.
John Waldren: Can I make a couple of comments? I donrt kno$, how muchresponsibility ere have to the residents over there. Maybe they shouldtalk to Eden Praire because typicalJ.y, Eden Prairie had this whole site,this industrial site next to a residential site within their domain andthey probably require some kind of sound buffer but yet they let a bui lderin Eden prairie build something without a sound buffer...so I would sortof suggest to you that...to Eden Prairie to have a sound buffer put up
because it drops way away. Like Jo Ann says, it would be awful hard toput a berm there but on their side it doesn't drop away. Itrs on thehigher side of the railroad tracks. Maybe, I dontE know if Bden prairie
would end up doing anything at this date in there that would help fromthat end. In the Lumber yard, covered storage is at a premium so you
Does
Head1a: I did have one more guestion. Does the Fire Department require
any additional equipment due to this structure?
Brown: No.
Pl ann i ng
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 23
donrt usually put them al-I in the building. A lot of times you put themaround the outside. There is a very good possibility that at some pointin time in the future that we would do some more covered storage orsomething like that. We will be sensitive to the neighbors on that sideand the first place that we can look at is putting the Iumber... We aresensitive. We try to be good neighbors to the 3g ox 4g people that builton that side. When we originally built there ia l9?9 r we went toconsiderable expense to put up a nice berm at the street level area andthen with this I0 foot retaining wall type of thing where the City went in
\.rhen they were putting the road and took the fence down and took all thedirt from the berm that r^re put up and used it to construct the road. Whenthey put the fence back right along side the road. Now vre're taking andmoving that fence back where it was originally so we can get the lotcoverage that we had before. So, rre're trying to be good neighbors.
Conrad: What do you think about
Emmings: I think that should beto even think about it.
Conrad: Letts ask the applicantput that in? TeII us more.
the curb?
negotiated bethreen them and t have no way
erhat they think? Is that a hardship to
John Waldren: IaIe're willing to do whatever the engineers says at the time
we submit the plans for approval. If he says youtve got to have it, we'IIdo it. If BRW talks to them in the meantime because they haven'E had muchtime to go over it. He was busy and they're busy so if they get somethingto it included in there that says we need it, werll do it. If they talkand they say we don't...
Hnmings: I guess my impression would be, since it's from our CityEnginer, we ought to put it in there and if they can tatk him out of itbefore it gets to City Council, then they can...
Conrad: That's a good way to do it, if you can talk him out of it.
planEmmings: Anybody else have more comments? Let's takemotion. The first motion that appears in the packet.
the site
Conrad: IrIl make a recommendation that the planning Commission approvesthe Site Plan Review *88-9 as shown on the plan stamped "Received July 6,1988" r^rith the conditions listed by staff with a revisions to point number3 where we might reI^rord it that would say the applicant shall, instead ofthe word replace, the applicant shall cover the chainlink fence with a
wood fence to screen the existing outdoor storage. And with the additionof point 14 which would read that the applicant shall submit a proposal asto how they feel they can limit noise between the hours of 5:A0 and 7:OOp.m., possibly through the use of on-site signage or other training typeof things that could be done within their own company.
BatzIi: IrII second it.
Planning
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 24
Conrad: Under discussion, a1L Irm doing is saying, I think what I heardhere was really right. I donrt rdant to impose anything on these foIks.Theyrre doing some things that I like and I think what they can do is takea look at their operation. Even something just as simple as a sign for
some of the new opeartors saying watch the noise tevel . Be careful . That
seems simple but I think that type of thing out there makes some sense ofthe fact that there may be some people steeping. What I'm asking for is
simpJ.y a little letter by the time it comes back to City Council that says
we recommend that we wiII implement these type of things to help ourneighbors in Eden Prairie out. I think that would show the good faitheffort that I know you can do.
fnmings: Another thing atong that line too Ladd lrouldsaid they need to Ioad up materials to get them out tohe also indicated some on loading rail cars. Maybe ifunloading rail cars, maybe they don't have to do it at
know but if they could look at whether or not they do.
Batzli: What were the hours that you said?
and 7.90.
about the morning?
I sa id
Are you
Yes.
So you donrt. mind that theyrre unloadj.ng and loading at II:39?
Conrad: I could back that out and just
comments that I rnight have if you'd likehours that bother me the most and that'shad some other recommendat i ons .
be, Mr. Waldrenjob sites and thenit is from
that time. I don't
open it up to just general
me to. I guess those are thewhat I heard. I think maybe they
Conrad:
Batzli:
Conrad:
Batzl i :
between 5:00
just talking
Batzli: I was comfortable withintending to genrally limit theregular business hours.
that.
no i. se
cur L ous
an area
tha t
where
I was just
outside of
werre
we cons ider
John Waldren: You guys are getting into a touchy subject when you mentionany hours at aII because $re are wiJ,Iing to do, iE's not a problem to dosignage or training. We do regular safety meetings about every 2 weeksso these sort of things we end up bringing up. The next neeting will beone of the things thatrs brought up. Itll ask the manager of thatoperation to go and I'lI probably go with him, to see what exact noisesare there and to see if we can do something about them. Ird be willing towrite a letter that the first place, thereis going to be more outsidestorage, not covered storage, the first place that we would consider wouldbe along that back fence to act as a noise buffer. At 5.69 to Z:00 in themorning in the summertime is the prime time where if the contractor wantshis l-oad, it,s got to be in that time.
Emmings: I think all he's saying is, take a look at what yourreduring those hours. If there are things that are noise genratorsdonrt have to do at that time, maybe you could tell us about that
do ing
that you
or if
PJ.anning
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeti ng
1988 - Page 25
there are little things that you can do to make it quieter, tell us aboutthat or tell us that you're going to put up signs. Hers just saying, lookat your operation in those hours. See what the noise generaters areoutside that the neighbors are hearing and get back to the City about r"rhatyou might be willing to do about it.
Conrad: Irm not asking you to change your operation but I am asking kindof to reemphasize your training program and if thatrs a Iittle stickerthat goes on the horn of the forklift truck that says neighbors are st.itlsleeping, something that simple. Those are the types of things that I'mlooking for that I think you can do. I think thatrs just good managementand I think you ' d virant t.o ilo that. That type of stuf f .
Headla: Irve got a question. Does that meet the sign ordinance Barb?
When he said signage, I was thinking, I thought, are r,re putting 4 x I
sheets of plywood on the back wall nor,r? I had trouble with the
terminol-ogy there and I understand what you want and I think that's fine.
Enmings: Is there any further discussion on the motion?
Headla: Yes. I donrt Iike the timing.
Emmings: EIaborat.e.
Headla: I don't like any time restrictions on that.
diminish noise at those times?
as to ho r., they might minimize noise during the
Emrnings: You mean to
a plan
Emmings: Do you vrant to amend the motion and see if you get a second?
Headla:
whoLe 24
Subm i t
hours.
HeadIa: Alright. Ird Iike to
but that we ask the applicantduring the fuLl working time.
amend the motion that we do
to work on a plan that will
not specify t.ime
mi n imi ze noise
Enmings: Is there a second? The amendment fails for a lack of second.
Conrad moved, Batzli seconded that the Planningapproval of Site Plan Review #88-9 as shown on
JuIy 6, 1988" with the following condiEions:
Commission recommendthe plan stamped rr Rece i ved
1. The applicant shall provide an amended landscaping plan erhich provides
evergreens interspersed with the proposed maples and additional
landscaping on the east and south side of the proposed expansion.
The applicant shall provide a plan which moves the chain link fence,
located on the east side of the existing outside storage area,
approximateLy 3S' to Agt into the site and shall sod/seed and
Iandscape the increased setback area to maintain 74? lot coverage.
2
Planning
July 13,
Commission Meeting
198 8 - Page 26
3 The applicant shall cover the chain link fence with a wood fence to
screen the existing outdoor storage.
The applicant shalL redirect or relocate the lights on the site away
from the residential district t.o the north.
The applicant shall obtain and
Watershed District Permi t.comply with all conditions of the
The applicant shalI provide the City with calculations which verify
adequate capacity for the existing eJater and sanitary sewer services.
As an alternative, the applicant shall provide the City with detailsfor the installation of new services for the proposed buildingaddition.
7.The applicant shaIl provide the City Engineer for approval calcuations
which verify that the existing storm sewr system along West 78th StretwilI adequately handle the additional capacity due to thisapplication. These calculations shal1 give detailed flow values forthe proposed site and the capacity for the existing site to the end ofthe outfall.
a Erosion control shall be in place prior to the commencement of anygrading, and once in place, shall remain in place throughout theduration of construction. The developer shall be responsible for
making periodic checks and repairing any damaged erosion controls
pr ompt 1y .
9. Details regarding the pavement section for the parking area and theproposed staging areas shall be submitted to the City Engineer as partof the final review process.
Ig.
4
5
6
The applicant shall submit to the Citysection for the proposed curb cuts andoccur along the access of l87th Avenue
review.
Engineer for approval a typical
bj.tuminous paving which is toprior to final site plan
11.The applicant shall submi t
proposed control s truc tu re
proposed staging area.
details to the City Engineer for
shown on the southeast corner of
the
the
12.Revised plans which include curb
bituminous parking area shall beto final site plan approval.
and gutter along
submi. tted Eo the
aII sides ofCity Eng iner
theprior
13.The applicant shall comply with conditions of the Building and FireInspector.
The applicant shaLl submit a proposal as toIimit noise between the hours of 52Ag a.m.through the use of on-site signage or otherthat could be done within their own company
how they feel
and 7:Og a.m.,
training type
they can
poss ibly
of things
L4.
All voted in favor except Headla who opposed and the motion carried.
Headla: I think we ought to be in effect fo! the whole working period.
Enmings: Is there a motion on the Conditional Use permit?
Headla: Ird like to make a motion that the planning Cornmission approvePermit Request *88-8 rdith the reconmendations of the planning Staff.
Batzli: IrlL second it for discussion purposes. I think there were somechanges.
Bnnings: I had proposed a number 3 that said that we include a conditionof compliance with aII conditions of the Site plan approval and I think if
we put that in as the only condition and r,ripe out these two conditionsthat are down here, werd really have everything wouldnrt we? Because bothof those are included in the site plan.
Olsen: Yes.
Headla: Say that again.
Hnmings: If we took out I and 2 in the staff report and just had onecondition and t.hat condition is compliance with all the cooditions of SitePlan approval . In other words, they have to do all those things in orderto have their conditional use permit. Thatts aL1 we really need.
Headla: Thatrs what this is about. ArenrE these thethe Site PIan requirements?
two deviations to
Batzli: No, those are in the Site plan.
Headla: Or the builder's requirements.in what we requi re .
These are the only tvro exceptions
Bnmings: No, they're not exceptions. Theyr re just conditions that areimposed on t.he conditional use permiE. I guess $rhat I'm saying j.s, whydonrt we just make sure they comply with everything that werve already
imposed on them and then let them have thej.r conditions.
Batzli: Or would you just like to make it a third condition?
Emmings: I don't care.
Headla: Ird feel more comfortable with it as a third condition. Whatrsthe disadvantage to doing that?
Emmings: Because I and 2 are already included as conditions underSite Plan approval. That's aII I was looking to be more efficientyou want to add it as a third one. Ird just like to see them tiedtogether is aII.
thebut if
Planning Commission MeetingJuIy 13, 1988 - Page 27
Pl ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meet i ng
1988 - Page 28
Headla moved, Batzli seconded thatapproval of Conditional Use permit
dated rrReceived JuIy 6, 1988" with
t.
2
The applicant shall screen the
opaque $rood fence and with the
the Planning Commission recommend
Request *88-8 as shown on the Site plan
the following conditions :
proposed outside storage with 1008proposed landscaping.
on the east
fence and
The appJ.icant shall cover the existing chain Iink fenceside of the existing storage area with 1009 opaque woodprovide landscaping along the fence.
3 The applicant shall comply with
PIan Request *88-9.
all conditions established on Site
A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 25,OOO SQUARE FOOT OFE ICEIWA REHOUSE FACILITY ON
PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OEFICE PARK AND LOCATED AT LOT 3, BLOCK 1,
PARK ONE 3RD ADDITION, WAYTEK, INC.
Jo Ann Olsen and Larry Brown presented the staff report.
Emm i ng s :
do.
There's nothing in our staff report that tells us what you folks
Olsen: Storage of wire.
Emmings: Okay, I'd like to know whalrs going on here.
Wayne Larson: Irm !{ayne Larson, president of Waytek. Werre a r.rholesaledistributor of wiring, wire fasteners, covering materiar. Anything kind ofhardware related. We seII strictly to industry. We have only, as you seeon the plans, inside storage. Basically $rerre a pretty clean operalion.
Batzli moved, Conrad seconded an amendment to install a third conditionwhich reads, the app}icant shall comply with arr conditions established onsite plan Request *BB-9. All voted in favor of the amendment and thenoiton carried.
Batzli: Do ere want to nake condition 2 to correspond to the conditionthat Ladd proposed in condition 3 in the Site plan regarding covering ofthe chain Iink fence?
Emmings: To be consistent we should do it that way.
Conrad moved, Batzli seconded an amendnent to change the second conditionto replace the word "replacerr $rith the word trcover't. AI1 voted in favorof the amendment and the motion carried.
Planning
JuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 29
Emmings: It is all indoors?
Wayne Larson: LqA*.
Headla: what kind of wire and insuLation?
Emmings: Are they right across the tracks from this residential area inEden Prairie al so?
Wayne Larson: yes.
Emmings: You heard what went on here just now. rs there anything aboutyour operation that you think neighbors across the track would fi;dobjectionable? Lights and noise? Hours of operation?
Wayne Larson: Our hours of operation are from 7.39 to about 5:00.
Emmings: And again it's all indoors?
wayne Larson: The only thing is we
would be on the west side. We have
Emmings: Have you had a chance to
Yes .Wayne Larson:
Emmings: And you're aware of
the semis that back up and thatnoise loading and unloading.
the staff report?
from the point of view of a
Looked at the proposal.
ha ve
some
read
Wayne Larson: The builder is
those?
here.
Craig Larson: Irm Craig Larson from LL white and Sons. we're thedesigner and contractors of the project. We agree real1y wiEh all theconditions with staff and the additionaL screening requirement, r think wecan reach agreement with vrhat additional is needed and lver re in agreementwith that. The other conditions really don't have any problems. you
brought up the question too of the residential area across, as far as theconstruction period, I don't see !.hat werlI have any problems either. wevery seldom would start anywhere before 7:66 io the morning and typicallyonly work until about 5:00, maybe SzOO in the night so I don't think youidhave any disturbance there.
Emmings: Has the staff looked at th isresidential neighbor in Eden Prairie?
wayne Larson: The wire r,rould be wire thatrs used in construction or inautomotive or trucks, trailers, battery cables. werve got a trailercabre. we have arl different types of wires. uL approved wires. Thingsof this type. Fasteners. you iee these little typii of fasteners that goon the ends of the wires. Arr items that you buy- carled scotchrocks. 3frmanufactures then. Things of this type. cover materiar, look at the hoodof your car, you see that corregated rooking materiar, we sell an awfurlot of that.
Olsen: Ye
Headla:
measure tha t?
res
simp
hing
eet.bly one
close
, hopefu
Headla: I thought youof Quattro Drive. Is
and it is a very quiet industrial
s is not a public hearing is it?
viewed the plan and most of the
ch s condition 6, takes the tmostnotside of the newly laid treet.ould be no reason to sturb t
'11 just see if
conditions that have
care in trying to keep
From what the plan
he bituminous mat out
on to the applicant thatit is a newJ.y
on of the concrete crosss as far as anything
Construction of that canstruction to Qua t tro
use.
ThenEmmings i
we've got
T
Brown: When we
been stated, suthe constructio
shoi./s here, thethere. It was
we will be watc
constructed strgutter is proba
that would come
be done wi thout
Drive.
put on there as aat street out the
disturbing
Iy wi thout
tificati
beca u se
at street.
using any con
ents. Dave?
On co dition 5, give me a yardstick of you I re going to
he cross gutters constructiof the most se itive issue
we
tha
e afte tha t they just break out your roadwayreally aski ng?wha you t re
Brovrn: what I s that?
Headla: Do you have someunintentionally but in ca
financial reties and
of really measur in9
t gets broken up for
that? In case
one reason or
they do,
a no ther ,do you have any recourse
Brown: I doubt thatto notify the appl icshut the operati on
Headla: So thatl r^rhat this re
HeadIa: Oka Thatrs all I have.
Batzli: yo ind ica ted
ave any recourse at thisthrou Id
tha tif we
time.
ha ve
Itrs simply
lhe power towiII be watching. We do
see damage occurring.
Iy gives you?
ed to delete items I and 9. The
asemn t s ?
that you wathe utility
Brown:rrect -
Batzl i :I donrt have any questions.
ElIson
distri
Conrad: One comment here
heavy vegetation, this isknow, another portion. Th
I think it looks good. Irveutor in Chanhassen. So welcom
always
. and I
report
e el se
, is
said vre need athink i.t Ioo ks
good wire
good.
in the staffall someplac
analysis. Those areas of
on the southr^rest or I don I E.there much that needs to bee building pa
Planning Commission Meet i ng
July 13, 1988 - Page 30
t
\
Brown: Cor rec t
\
Pl ann i ng
July 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 30
Olsen: Yes, and it is a very quiet industrial use.
Emmings: This is not a public hearing is it? Then we'l1 just see ifwerve got comments. Dave?
Headla: On condition 5r give me a yarilstick of how yourre going tomeasure that?
Broh,n: when we reviewed the pran and most of the conditions that havebeen stated, such as condition 6, takes the utmost care in trying to keepthe construction outside of the newry laid street. From what the planshows here, there shourd be no reason to disturb the bituminous mat outthere. rt was simpry put on there as a notification to the appricant thatwe wil.l be watching that street out there because it is a newtyconstructed street. The cross gutters, construction of the concrete crossgutter is probably one of the most sensitive issues as far as anythingthat r.rourd come close to disturbing that street. construction oi thai canbe done without, hopefutly without causing any construction to euattroDrive.
Head1a: I thought you r,irere after that they just break out your roadwayof ouattro Drive. Is that what yourre really asking?
Brown: what i s that?
Headla: Do you have some way of really measuring that? In case they do,unintentionally but in case it gets broken up for one reason or another,do you have any recourse?
Brown: I doubt that we would have any recourse at this time. Itrs simplyto notify the applicant that we wilt be watching. We do have the power toshut the operation down if ere do see damage occurring.
Headla: So thatrs what this reaLly gives you?
Brown: Correct.
Headla: Okay. Thatts aLl I have.
Batzli: You indicateC that you wanted to delete items g and 9. Thefinancial sureties and the utility easemnts?
Brorr/n: Correct.
Batzli: I donrE have any questions.
Ellson: I think it looks good. Irve always said we need a good wiredistributor in Chanhassen. So wel-come and I think it looks good.
Conrad: One comment here in the staff report analysis. Those areas ofheavy vegetation, this is all someplace else on the southwest or I don,tkno$r, another portion. The building pad, is there nuch that needs to be
Planning
July 13,
Commission Meeti ng
1988 - Page 31
removed from
that?
that area? So itrs pretty clean. yourre not concerned with
Olsen: What $rerre saying is theyrre working around a lot of these.
Conrad: Because they have the fortune to be on the agenda with theprevious appricant, that's kind of the kiss of death, to take one subjectinto the ground. In this case !{er re not too uncomfortable, Irm notuncomfortable that theyrre going to disturb the neighbors but in futurecases if they seI1, expand or whatever, do we need iny kind of, are weconcerned with a building going in and how they impacl the residentialneighborhood? r didnrt see in the staff repori antthing tarking about thedirection of lights on the building. The sodium vipor iights. can wejust assume that that's taken care of? How do we monitor-those things JoAnn?
olsen: The
Conrad: Is
lights, they have to be
that in a building code
a commercial site plan
shielded. . .
or is that
requ i remen t
in an
wouLdOl sen :
l ights .
f t I s
ord inance?
be shielding of
Conrad: And
Olsen: It's
Conrad: In
does Larry go
the Bui lding
terms of noise
out and make sure that happens?
Inspector that does it.
in the future, do $/e care?
any
use
Olsen: Sure $/e care. Again, we don't haveas far as site plan approval and conditional specific regulations but
permi t. . .
Dacy: Everything wilL be iodoors.
conrad: Yes. right and thatrs why r said, $rhat about the future. Letrssay they expand.
Dacy: outside storage, than a conditionar use permit would be required.
Emmings: As far as the noisev/ith at one time where the pCA
the neighbors, there were somethey shut them do$rn.
too, Irm ae/are of it. A case I was invoLved
came out to where these big loaders...andneighboring houses and they came down...and
Olsen: We do have that control and if itrs thought itPublic Safety is working on a new noise ordinance...
Dacy: Weire currently purchasing a decimiL meter.
dangerous and
in on the same onesays they'Il take the
rehrord that to sayintact throughout
Hnrnings: I donrt really have any comments. I keyedDave did, number 5. I didn't Iike the language thatutmost care. WeII, baloney, theyrll do it. I'd justthe applicant and contractor shaII keep guattro Drive
PlanningJuIy 13,
Commission Meeting
1988 - Page 32
the construction process and let them know thatI donrt think that's a big point. A1l- and all,application and unless there are more comments,to make a motion.
that I s a condition.I think it's a good
maybe somebody lrou I d
But
like
Batzli moved, ELrson seconded that the pranning commission recommendapprovaL of Site plan Review #88-8 as shown on the Site plan stanpedfReceived June 13. 1988,' subject to the following conditions:
1. city_council approvar of the ordinance amendment regarding parkingbuilding setbacks adjacent to rail-road tracks.and
.>Additional landscaping be provided along the southwest side ofproposed docking and parking area. The additional landscapinginclude evergreens for year round screening.
The applicant shall obtain and comply r,ri th all conditions of theWatershed District Permi t.
the
shal I
3
4 A standard concrete cross gutter shallintersection of Quattro Drive and thecross gutter shalI be installed as perreport. (Refer to Attachrnent No. 2).
be installed at the
proposed 24 foot driveway. Thisthe detail enclosed erith this
6
The applicant and contractor shall takeCity that the newly-cons truc ted euattrothroughout the construction per iod.
utmost
Drive
care
sha I1
in ensuring the
remain intact
The storm sewerexisting storm
Quattro Drive.
plan shall be revised to show the connection to thesewer stub along the westerly right-of-way boundary for
7. An erosion control plan shallapproval prior to final site
8. Meet the requirements of ttre
AIl voted in favor and the motion
be submitted toplan rev iew.
the City Engineer for
Public Safety Director.
carried.
Conrad moved, Ellson seconded to adjournand the motion carried. The meeting was
the meeting.
adjourned at
voted in favor
p.m. .
All
9 .3q
Submitted by Barbara DacyCity PI anner
Prepared by Nann Ophe i m
5