01-3-90 Agenda and Packet€L,
AGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
!\IEDNESDAY, JANUARY 3, 1990, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
1
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Preliminary p1a
and Lot 1, Bloc
Iocated on MurrCity of Chanhas
Preliminary plat to subdivide 3.2 acres into two singlefamily lots of 2.08 and .79 acres on ploperty zoned RSF andlocated between Pleasant View Road and Lotus Lake, 365Pleasant View Road, Robert Sathre.
ttok 1,
ay Hi
sen.
replat a portion of Lot 3I, Irturray Hill
Pleasant Hill on property zoned RSF and1l Road, just south of Melody Hill Road,
3. *ITEM DELETED*
Conditional Use Permit for the installation of a dock on arecreational beachlot on property zoned RSF and located onOutlot A, Stratford Ridge, Bob pierce.
4. TITEIT{ DELETED*
Rezoning of a portion of Crossroads plaza from BG, GeneralBusiness to BH, Highway Business to conform to thesurrounding property dlue to the realignment of Marke!Boulevard, City of Chanhassen.
OLD BUSINESS
5. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amend the City Code irith regaralto establish the maximum lot size for church developments at15 acres.
5- Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amend the City Code, Division5, Site Plan Review, to revise the procedur-, expand ondevelopment standards and require financial guarintees forlandscaping and other site improvements.
NEW BUSINESS
7 . Organizational Items !
a. Elect Chair and Vice-Chair for 1990b. Adopt Planning Conmission By-L,aws.c. Elect ERA Liaison.
APPROVAL OF UINUTES
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE
OPEN DISCUSSION
ADJOURNUENT
CITY OF
EHINH.[SSEN
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE:-Jan. 3, 1990.
C.C. DATE: Jan. 22, 1990
CASE NO: 89-20 SUB
Prepared by: Al-Jaf f ,,/v
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Preliminary Plat to Subdivide 3.2 Acres into TwoLots of 2.08 Acres and 0.78 Acres
Action bY CltY Ad'nhK?ilt
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
Endc.s'i
Dlle Sr-::'ii:'i.: to courc ll
t{r ' '
365 Pleasant View Road
Robert Sathre
365 Pleasant vien Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RE e4':i
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PRESBNT ZONING:
ACRBAGES
DENSITYs
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SErtRs
PEYS ICAI, CEARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
RSF, Residential Single Family
3.5 Acres
RSF; single family
Lotus Lake
RSF; single family
RSP, single family
Available to the site.
N-
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The site is a riparian lot between LotusLake and Pleasant View Road and heavily
wooded with mature trees.
Low Density Residential
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Sathre Subdivi s ion
January 3, 1990
Page 2
BACI(GROUND
On August 19, L977 , a 15 foot sanitary sener easement south ofLot 1, Block 1 and south of Baldur Avenue (which exists as apaper street) was acquired by the City. A1so, a 15 foot widedriveway easement eas dedicated to the City to allow access tothe lift slation located on the sout.heast corner of Lot I, Block1 (Attachemnt *1) .
ANALYS I S
a 0.78 acre Iot from aavaiLable for newparcel contains an
The applicant is proposing to suMivide3.2 acre parcel. This lot will be madeconstruction. The remaining 2.08 acreexisting house.
Both lots meet a1l of the requirements of the RSF District. Thestandard utility and drainage easements are being provided alongthe lot lines of the p1at. pubLic utilities are available at thesite. Both lots will be served directly by driveways fromPleasant View Road. The lots are large enough that both havesufficient area to be further subdivided. Lot L could be spiltinto several additional home sites at some point in the futirrebut.at the present time variances would be iequired for 1.otshaving no frontage on a public road. Staff is in the process ofdeveloping ortlinance revisions that would clarify this issue.Lot 2 coulil not be subdivided due to 1ot width ciiteria.
S treets
In the attached memo, the Senior Engineering Technician addressesthe utilization of existing pleasant View Roacl for access. He isrequesting that the proposed driveway for Lot 2, Block I, belocated to the extreme easterly edge of the 1ot to provide ade-quate sight distance from the corner of pleasant ViLw Road andHorseshoe Curve. On busy streets such as pleasant View, staffwouLd normally consider the feasibility of requiring that the twolots share a driveway since reducing the number of iurb cuts pro-motes traffic safety. In this case, due to topography and treecoverage, shared driveways are not recommended. to insure thatfuture oirners are arrare of the reguired driveway location on Lot2, an appropriate notice should be placed in thi Chain-of-?itle.
The City is requiring 33 feet frour the center of pleasant ViewRoad be dedicated for the existing street and potentially futureexpansion of the road. The existing lot is currently platted tothe centerline of the street.
Ba1dur Avenue exists as a paper street. The westerly 15 feet ofBaldur Avenue was vacat.ed. The applicant is in owneiship of t.heeasterly 15 feet of Ba1dur Avenue. The Baldur Avenue situationis quite unusual in that it is a "tail" extending from the 1ot
that will be severed from it when the Pleasant View right-of-way
is dedicated. The applicant wishes to retain ownership to pro-
vide some means of accessing the lakeshore although he is aware
of ordj.nance restrictions on its use. Baldur Avenue is currently
being used as a driveway access for the property southwest of the
subject property. The property using the driveway for an access
can be subdivided in the future. In oraler to prevent these lots
from being landlocked, an easement for right-of-way for future
1ot accesi will need to be secured. The northerly portion of
Baldur Avenue will neetl to be detlicated to the City to provide
access to these lots and ROW for Horseshoe Curve. The remaining
privately owned portion of what would have been Baldur Avenue Row
ihould be platteil into an outlot since it is unbuildable. Staff
has also pioposed a condition that rrould restrict clear cutting
of trees over a" caliper on this outlot since it is visible from
Lotus Lake.
Sathre Subdivision
January 3, 1990
Page 3
Park Dedi cation
COMPLIANCE TABLE RSF DISTRICT
Lot
Area
15,000
90,605
33,976
Lot
widrh
Lot
Depth
90
93
114
30
30
N/A
30
100
N/A
10
L60/300
N/A
VARIANCES REQUIRED
None.
The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the plat at their
neeting of November 29, !989. It was their recommendation that
park dedication fees be reguired in lieu of park land.
Easemen t s
The city is requesting an easement over the existing tlriveway to
obtain ic."ss to a liit station located on the southeast corne'r
of Lot 1, Block I. The driveway easement was dedicateal to the
City in 1977 but was not recorded. The City has used it con-
tinuously to provide access to the lift station. A sanitary
sewer easemenl exists over the southerly portion of Lot 1, Block
I and extencls over Baldur Avenue. Typical easements have been
provided, 5 feet on the side and rear lot lines anil 10 feet on
the front lot line.
L25
300+
28
Front
s etback
S ide
s etba ck
Rear
Setback
Ordi nance
Lot I
Lot 2
Sathre Subdivision
January 3, 1990
Page 4
RECOMMENDAT I ON
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt thefollowing motion:
iThe Planning Commission reconmends approval
#89-20 as shown on the plat dated November 6to the following conclitions:
of Subdivision
1989, and subject
3
1. The driveway access to Lot 2 shall be located to the fareasterly edge of LoL 2. Notice of the location shall beplaced in the Chain-of-Tit1e of the lot.
2. Easements required:
a.RefLect the existing sanitary selrer easement over Lot 1
and Baldur Avenue.
b. Driveway access easement over Lot 1 , Block 1.
required in lieu ofPark and trail dedication fees will bepark land dedication.
A tree preservation plan musl be submitted prior to issuanceof a building permit. The plan should illustrate how
driveway and home placement and construction will minimize,tree 1oss. The plan must. be approved by staff. Preservation
areas shal1 be adequately marked by snow fence prior to
const.ruction to avoid damage. Clear cutting of trees of 4"caliper or larger shall be prohibited.
6 The final plat
except for theshalI be shown
shall reflect the dedication of Baldur Avenue
southern 220 feet. The southern 220 feet
on the final plat as Outlot A.
4
7 The final plat sha11 show the width of Pleasant View Roadfrom the center of the existing road to the Lot l and Lot 2front property lines as 33 feet.
8. Any tree on Outlot A nith a caliper of 4' or greater shall
be preserved. A tree removal plan shall be submitted priorto any disturbance of the area along Baldur Avenue. Agrading plan approved by the Planning Director is required."
ATTACHMENTS
Easement descriptions.
Memo from Sr. Engineering Technician.Application.
Preliminary plat dated November 6, 1989.
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DEC-20-Cr9 r.rED 15 :4?P. 65
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rscrtTatto clvlL 3xalr{3El BCHOELL A MADEON, tNc'
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,HElNa lla'taEl
DESGRIFTION
,oFt CITY OF CHA NHASSEN
aa. Dar. tal
rra, tc, a.arra
trctro^ rE, aatr
t c, oar. alt
xaxl, tc. lata.a
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Itxal rE. taall
Rerlsed
Il-4-i7
S l/2' Scc. I
Abitr!ct
Eook 89.
?age ?0?
EAST LOTUS LAKE SAIIITARY SE}IER AND I{ATERI'1AI}IS
?s) A r5.oo roor drrvcway#igiill,l!'r:llltili ;i!;:,.llf ctat'ron rccess
puiposes ovcr lnd lcrosl
A'll thlt olrt of Goverdnen! Lot 3-and {' Scctlon 1' TownshlP 116'
nilr'?illt$.iiliii:.t:iii:ii ilil.,'i!lytl:,.:;,i!'[l'^!ldt!"
Iiiti ;til lfir,iff ii:ut*lrn' iii il:iri$ dii:i,ifuii,
casterly ltne of pr'iliiriiiii,i,-carvlr.co., lllnn. tccordlns to the
o1.t thereof on rrrl-iii'oi'iltoii ii-ttrc.6titcc of thc Reilster of
?li:'.Fi,,il ll,t:rci ii:;y,;,iu:::Iii*:ffi u:1, ill'$3'{!t!lil
i i il # iiE iini-vi'c*' ii'u'i ;fi il;i t'lto,t:l'l.t!'lgi.'lilfl.tli.,.
iniii& iiio-Long Lake castcl'lv to^! qolnl
i!i;:ilr,H.lri;i:t'!i:it;.:l,urn:l.liildii{#iilii,l ili ::i6iE i;;i'Io-i polnt !3 f.et south of-the !iili.l-iisi-pirliili ;iti';iri-r6'ru' tini tgo feet-more on lcss.. to
the l{est l'lne of .'idiil iliir"ii'incc.ttorthcastorlv r'l'ong sald'-
iHd;iy ii'ic io il'i-Hiiir'iini.6i-s_ata Lot 3t thrncs llest to tho
H:''t:t.'sfl rtii'ii,'riil'li:iiff tiit,:,;:;:!.11,I'ii.':??i:.T'
ilii*4it}l.tt*^liJffifr t*rfii ii.i:ll$f,ii,Ii,"
rt prge 470.
Ilrl centcr llnc of rrld oascncnt lr dcscrlb'd rr follorr:
ly
Coflmcnclng at the
on !n !33umed
most northerl v
bc
cornlr of tha
arl n9 of South
rbove dcscrlbed
26 deg rees 38 nlnutes
Droper
06 3.c
ProP!to be
rty.
tyi tiencl
onds tlestt
c dl3tlncc
rlon sof
tjle northmstcr
68.62 fcet to
1vl
tha bcAtnnl ng of tha contcr llntlnc of thc a bove descrlbcd
dcs crlbcdi thrn ce South ?8 degrcer 43 mlnutts 54 3econd8 Etst
dl strnc c of 75.95 feet rlong r entlll curvt conct
ly rnd routhc astrrl
YC tO {rl ,or*-a dlstr nct of'177.60 fa.ti thenc: castcr
ttng
fectrest hrvlng r rrdlus of 114.1?rnd r ccntrtl rng Ir of 38 dcgrces
38 nlnutcr 00 tcc
East, ttng cnt to
ondst thrnce:rld curvl.r dlrtancc o
South 40 de Ifrees 05 nln
86.26 feetl
uta3 54 lcconds
thencc louth-
castcrly c
cmtrtl tng
nd southerlY
'lc of 37 dsgrcei
a dtr trncc of 192.8'l
vlnt a rrdlur o
30 mlnutts 0o 3
I 291.
ocondsi thtncc
feet rl ong
59 f.3
r tangcntlrl
curv! conc avc to the re 3t ha trndl
South 2
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BOFt
DESCBIPTION
CITY OF CI{AI{HASSEN
CNCINEEFIS 3'UFIV'YOT'
ao lrlx"x ^v3xu3 aolJ?H
a{or:rxl, tatritttS E"a tlrar
trgxt E acr
EATLI! LI ItiAD'EN
t30tl"3l3D tait D f gtvtYol
tartt. ra !. al?a
la. t^:. rt!
t,rt. rc, a'ar.
ta*^ ra. !?0a
oioEr xE*90s8-c
rarat, tE. rraa-l
Revl sed
ll-4-77
S l/2. Sec. I
Ab3tr!ct
Eook 89,
Prge 202
EAST LOTUS LAG SANITARY SEUER AND }'ATERI-'IAINS
75) (Contlnucd)
Together wlth r 15.00 foot casernent for ernltrry sewcr llft statlon
lccrss purposrs over and lcrorr the rbovc tlescrlbed property. The
center'llire of srld cas:ment ls descrlbed as followi: ' -
Beglnnlng at the termlnus of the rbovc dcscrlbed center Ilnei
thence South 2'l degrees 05 nlnutcs 32 tecondr Erst a dlstanceof 135,00 feet rnd said c.nter llne therc temlnatlng.
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tafa ic. aatt
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Prgc 76-8
t EC-=o-e9 r.rED 15:49
otoSl No 9058-c
BCHOELL E MAOAON, INC.GAILI]!3 XAD'EN
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OESCBI PTION
CITY OF CHANIIASSEN
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All thrt
Rang e 23',
ptr
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t of Governnpnt Lotr 3 and 4,
sc rlbed as follows' vlrt Be
Sectlon l, Tomsh{P '115,
I lnnlng rt t polnt on the Illorth lln e of oovcmmnt lot C.1516.s f eet l,est of the tio rtheatt
c0rne r of Lot 3; thcnce South r t rlght rng 'les to tjre llorth llnc of
rrld Lot 4'270 fceti thence Sout h 830 23'Errt 416.7 fccti thcnce
South 240.4 feetily llnc off on fllc rnd of record ln thc offlco
Plcasant Vleu, Crrver Co.,
thcncc South 540 l9l Iest 653.5 fcet to tho t{orth-
l{l nn .accordlng to the P frJeastcrof the Reg lster of Deedsthereo
for sald Carver Coun thence Southeast rlong reld l{o rthcasterl v llne
to thc ErstcrlY llne f Plcrsant Vlerli thensc !'th! Easterl I lne lty
lrt|.rlr. D. aaxoSLLrlart?ttt o crvrL 3N otxltr
xtrlr.. llc. alaa
la. aar. rla
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tsEaraa iaa. aart
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lcr{1, iE. tara.a
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INOTNEEFIa 3 aUFlvaYOFla
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d-12-76
EAST LOTUS LAKE SANITARY SE}IER AND IIATERIiTAIIIS
37) A 30.00 foot trnporary constructlon eesement an-d r 15.00.foot.perpe
eaiement for San.ltrry 3eu!r PUTPgSCS 6YCr! Undcr tnd lcrgll tnc T0llgyln
descrlbcd proPtrtY!
0 I
of Plasant Vlcw to th! thore of Long Lrkei thencc rlong thc thore of
rald Longls lnters ected by r llnLrkr easterly
e 682
to!P0fc
'lnt on
et t{rst of tm Etst
sald lakc sho re rhere tht EattE
llne of.sald
Sovcrnrnent Lot 3; thincG ttorth pr rallel rlth rald East llnc 1975 feet
tot
parrl P0te
tnt 33I rlth fect South of thc tlorth
riio ttorttr llnr '190 fce
llne of nld Lot 3i thencc Elst
t nprc or lescr to th c lert llne
ofrp
th. No
ubllc roadt
rth l{ne of rutd lot 3: thrncc
thence ilorthelsterl sald llcste
the po lnt
rly
of be
llnc to
lnnlngi
y rlong
t{crt to
cxceptl ng ttrcrcfrqn ! trtct of lrnd deeded to onr H.A. ofst I
I e rnd
Lena 0fst deed rccoded ln the offlce of rrld Ra9 l:tcr of Deedsle by
33t' of trrct o? lrnd
contrastcd to h told bY
Deeds rt Drge
srl d decedent to one
l0l rn d rxccptl ng
c lra Arnold by
rlso r
I ong
l
l
ln Book contrrct
for deed recorded ln thc offlcc of uld Reglr tcr of Decds ln Book tB"
of Eonds for Decd lt Dtg!170.
lr
The center llne of loth crscrncnts lr dcscrlbed u follom: -l
conrrenclng !t tha noEhrl3t cor0er ol thc_southlrqtlurrter-of srld
il;i;;'i; iiarici on in rssmcd berlng of South 0 d.gmes {6 nlnutes
ie-irionci llest. rlong the et3t llnr of tald South!$t Qulttglr t -iiliinii-6r-iSi.l5 iiiti ihcncc ttortlr 89 degryca 13 ollutes 12 recondr
iait r otstrncc of 60.00 fctti lheqcc South 0 dq9r?p-16 nlnutes.{E
;*lr:: it':.Llh'il!i !'.1!*iL';?'i;5!'iJlli'fi.:3iiii. liffiil; is miriutci li-ieionas uest r dl3ttncc of 165.10 !e91i !!c1cc
il;;ii'68 ;dilEi-Oe mnuiii-i7 -ccolgr lest r dtstrnsc.of 2s8.8! feeti-
i[inil-norif, io-oai.iii-oi niiuiii-ii-riionoi rctt r dlrtrnm of 33s.Ga
il[ir't'riii'il i6ui['ii-ieirc'-Ji'-is-mtni1!i 4! icconas IEst .a d.lstancr of
:iii::.i;:F,ii:Bl"[[:n,i3.!3'[iii"3,'ll;E:.'1,':ifl tl.'ii',!**'iili-i itiiaiii-ot iii.6z fiet; tlrencc so4h 82 dcarcer ?8 ntnutrs 03
Contl nued c37
S l/2. Sec. I
Abstrrct
Bk. 89
?, ?02
P. e5 -
c-20-cr9 !rED 1=' :56
SCHOELL e MAOSON, truc.
lNorNIteS 3 auBvaYoFla
ao xtr?x AvSxuS aou?tlrErItitll rarxxsaE"a lttal
- aiE|lrlr ,t]t}lr
DESCRIPTION
clTY 0F cttAr{flAssEil
8-12-76
s l/2, sec. I
Abstract
8k.89
?.202
Also together wlth r 10.00 foo t tenporr
EAST TOTUS IAKE SANITARY SEI{ER AI{D IJATERI.TAINS
37) (hntlnued)
iiiiili $':.:.il:'i!!t !',?3i;13.'3i,i,1[9.?.li$,,::.!.Ilifi tBdesrces 0o mrnutes 03 seiondi-icil i'oiiiinie'6i-i+irEl'-ie;i'il fi.beglnntng of_the center Ine-to-bi OeiiiGi6'rninurEs-ir-iicinai-erii i iisiinii'ii'5;3:3!ni!:i,tf,ll.3orlillii
desrees -45 mrnutes 58.seconds neii i-oiitinii-ir' iiiIgi"ilil,ttili."south 78 desrccs-07 nrrnutcs i0 iinnos liii . ;rsil;;'oi-ioloo"illtand sald cent+ llne th*. terminaii;!.'---'
Together Hlth I 40.00 foot perpetull casernent for mnltary 3ewer endsanltf ry .scwcr I tft stailon' puipgies ayi;,-iirioir lnd rarois-aiii' r6ir"f:iill|:, property. rhc cinlir' i ini oi-iirl"iiic,rint-ii-ilr#ib;["i;
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690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
CITY OF
CH[I{H[ESEN
@'
IUEI'IORANDUI'l
TO: Sharmin Al-Jaff, Planning Intern
FROII: Dave Hempel , Sr. Engineering Technician
DATE: November 2l , 1989
SUBJ! Preliminary Plat Review for Sathre Addition
File No. 89-19 Land Use Revieh,
Sanitary Sewer and Watermain
Sanitary se!{er and water service is available to Lot 2 from
Pleasant View Road. On Lot 1 where their is an existing house
water service is provided from Pleasant View Road and sanitary
sewer service from the line inmediately south of the house adja-
cent to Lotus Lake .
Streets
This plat will utilize existing Pleasant Vies Road for access.It is recomnended that the proposed driveway for Lot 2 be located
to the extreme easterly edge of the Iot to provide adequate site
distance from the corner of Pleasant View Road and Horseshoe
Lane.
Grading and Drainaqe
No grading plan was received with the Preliminary plat; there-
fore, it appears that no grading will occur over this site.
Upon review of ttre preliminary plat of Sathre addition dated
November 6, 1989, submitted by schoell t luadson, Inc., I offer
the following conments and recommendations:
The site is located south of Pleasant view Road and east.of
Horseshoe Lane. This plat proposes subdividing one lot into two.
The standard utility and drainage easements are being providedalong the 1ot lines of this p1at. However, the plat does not
show an existing sanitary seirer easement over Lot I lying bet$eenLotus Lake and the existing house. This easement should be shownon the final plat (see attached).
Sharmin A1-Jaff
November 2l , 1989
Page 2
!liscellaneous
Recommendations
The driveway access to Lot 2 sha1l be located to the fareasterly edge of Lot- 2.
2.
1
The final plat sha1l reflect the existing sanitary sewereasement over Lot 1.
c: Gary Warren, City Engineer
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I,AND DETIELOP}IENT APPf,ICATTONCIllI OF CEAIIEASSEII690 Coulter DriveChanbassea, Ml{ 55312(612) 937_1900
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A.PPLICNiIT !R,L t
ADDRESS
R,OViNER:
53rzip eIELEPEONE (Daytime )
REQUEST:
TELEPBONE 17 YL",*/
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Planned Unit Divelopnene
73 ott
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-ra ri
Zoning Agrpeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text AnendDent
Land Use p.l.an Anendeent
Conditional Use permit
Site plan Revier
_ Sketch plan
_ Prelimi.nary plan
_ Final plan
Y Subdi vi. sion
PROJECT NA.I4E
PRESEN? IAND USE PTAN DESIGNATION
REQUESTED IAND USE PIAN DESTGNATION
PAESENT ZONING ,4 Sr
usEs pRoposlD Fer.
srzE oF pRopERry 3.5 ac
I'CATION 5
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REASONS FDR THIS REQUEST
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//bLEGAL DESCRfPIION (Attach legal. if necessary )R zs r3.5/ ,4c, /;2 /^o*f,,c
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ADDRESS 3L5 P/eeu.) lrr' , -*, t
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Zoning District Change
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Street,/Ease66ot Vacation
wetlands perBit
REOUESTED ZONTNG s
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CITY OF
EHINH.TSSEI'I
P.C. DATE: Jan. 3,' igSOa
C.C. DATE: Jan. 22, 199f,
CASB NO: 89-23 SUB
Prepared by: AI-Jaff /v
STAFF REPORT
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Preliminary Plat. to Replat the South I10 Feetof Lot 31, Murray HilL and Lot 1, Block 1, pleasantHill Addition into One 1.2 Acre Lot and an OutlotContaining 0.3 Acres
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:Northwest of Uurray HilI Road
APPLICANT: City of Chanhassen
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATBR AND SEIiIER:
PEYSICAL CEARAC.:
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
RSF, Residential Single Family
1.5 acres
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RSF ;
RSF;
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Office Instutional District
single fanily
single family
single family
Available to the site.
Heavily wooded rrith an existing home withthe water tower to the north.
Low Density Residential
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January 3, L990
Page 2
ANALYS I S
The south 110 feet of Lot 31, Murray Hill contains the MurrayHill water tower and is ownetl by the City (Attachment *1). In
1987, the City net with the Murray Hill neighborhood with theintention to subdivide Lot 3I and se11 a portion of the 1ot which
was unnecessary for the rater tower functions. The neighborhood
rras opposedl to subdividing the lot since it is heavily wooded andshould be preserved in its natural state.
After further meetings antl tliscssions, the owner of Lot 1, Block1, Pleasant Hill agreed to merge a portion of Lot 31 with hisproperty (Attachment *2). A trail easement sha11 be provided
over the northerly 20 feet of the City lot to provide access tothe Minnetonka Jr. High School (Attachment {13). A public hearing
was held stating that the proposed parcel was for sa1e. Itir.Kreidberg, owner of Lot 1, Block 1, Pleasant Hill was the onlyinterested par ty.
The City is proposing to replat Lot I, Block 1, Pleasant Hill andthe southerly 110 feet of Lot 31, t{urray HiII into Lot 1, whichwill contain 501133 sguare feet and Lot 2 which will contain16,623 sguare feet and is the site of the water tower. I,ot 2 isnot a buitdable lot since it does not have required stre'et fron-tage, therefore, staff recommends that it be shown as an outlot.
Park and Recreation
A 20 foot wide trail easement isthe northerly 1ot 1ine.
requested on the outlot along
Easements
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on
of t.he typical sewer and rrater easements have been dedicatedthe p1at.
RECOMMENDATI ON
Planning staff recommends the Planning Conmission adopt Ehefollowing mot.ion:
nThe Planning Commission recommentls approval of Subdivision
Request +89-23 as shown on the plat dated December 29, L989
and subject to the following conilitions:
Lot 2 be shown as Outlot A on the final plat.
The north 20
ment . t
I
2 feet of Outlot A is dedicateal as a trail ease-
Plesant HiIl 2nd Addition
January 3, 19 89
Page 3
ATTACHMENTS
1
2
3
4
I{ap showing Lot 31, uurray Hil1.
il;; ;;;;i;; Lot r, Block -1 , Pleasant Hill and citv Ensineer
report.
Purchase agreement.
t{ap showing the trail easement.
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CITY OF J
THINH[SSEN
ME!{CRANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Mayor and City Council
Don Astlworth, City ltlanager
October 23, L989
Consider L,and Sale for a Portion of Irlurray Eil1 veater
Toerer Site, Gil Kreidberg
690 COULTEB DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
to
sdre .
This item was tabled from the City Council neeting of September
25, L989. Staff preparedl a public hearing notice (this item ilitl
not require public hearing, but has been treated as such pursuant
to Council action) antl we have included propelty onners from
Hummingbird, lrlelody Hill and west 65th Street in that n{if ica-
tion.
Questions also arose during the September 25th discussion as
1ega1 requirements and the process being considered for the
Responses to those points are as follows:
Sale of P f ope!!,y: State statute does not establish any
special procedures upon cities for the sale of Property.State law assunes that public processes will be useil andthat special considerations wiII exist srhich needl to be
addresseil individually by the governing body. Dispositionof lantls within the City during the last few years would
attest to this statement, i.e. the exchange of lands on the
north side of Lotus Lake for a boat access,/park on the
south side of Lotus, the sale to NordicTrack on West 82nd
Street, the vacation of lands aitjacenc to or rithin various
subilivisions to accomplish different or modlified
sewer/water extensions, etci and
Sale Process Questions: Questions as to how the
water torrer ploperty would be used first originated
approximately one year ago when crews began reatlying then-
selves to install an alternative access driveway from
Murray Hill for access pulposes. As a result of our ini-tiating construction, the neighborhood (prinarily new resi-
dents rrithin the Ostrom development) approached the City
Council asking that assulances be given regarding non-
destruction of trees, the necessity for the access, and
As
Ittayor and City Council
October 23, L989
Page 2
future plans of the City regarding the property. TheCouncil tabled action on the iten and direited staff toneet with the neighborhood to explore iesues that were pre-sented. Staff was then invitedl by the neighborhood toattend a meeting to discuss this issue (heiat at one oftheir homes ). I'tr. Ostrom was the priurary person making theinitial inquiry. Staff believed that we- trld left thatneeting rrith the understanding that the neighborhood didnot tish to see
_
the . property iubdivitteit,zsold for a singlefamily home, had primary concerns as to the deforestationthat would tikely occur if the property were suMivided andwished to see a trail built across the property so as toil:gr. that pedestrian access could be ictrievei from HurrayEi11 Road to uinnetonka _irunior High. The option to poten_tia1ly- selI a portion.of the property to ur'. Xreiabeig-wasa result of that meeting. Staff saw the opportunity iorthe sale as a win,/win situation in that th;-City wo-uta- U"in a position to retain an alternative access t6 ttre watertower while providing monies to construct a trail. Theissue of a sale of a portion of the propety had not beenconsidered prior to the. neighborhoodt- neiti-ng . Staff-isfeathe City Attorneyrs office to have an appraisal of tht pro_perty conducteil and to prepare a sale dlocument to Ur.Kreidberg in the amount of that appraisal . Irtr. XrJiiU"rgagreed to the purchase price and his subsequently agreed toincorporate the proposed lot as a part ot tris cuireit totso as to have a backyard. lhis iten was advertiseil as aupart of the September 25th City Council agenda.
- Surnmation: If an elror rras rnade, it was the assumptionEErFttre-tre neighborhood raeeting-wni"t trre councir directed usto attend was truly noE representative of the neighborhood.to whether the propos-l sale represents the best ionetaryreturn for the City is debatable. Is a bird in the handrrorth two in the bush? From staff rs standpoint, the issueras nore than one-of monetary return. Although'the propertyproposed to be sold to !tr. Kreidberg does repiesent ibuildable -single fanily lot, introdlcing a h6me on to ttresite rould assuredly create future probiens for itre-iiiv.Specifically, even though the propeity owner roufa Ue- -
buying it knowing that ahe Citi hlat an access drive to thetower, we could alnost be assured of future conplaintiregarding late night nrintenance, early morning- checki,!!c. It was quite obvious from the statenents-of i-,rle_diate neighbors that a sale for single fa.nily p"ip-JJ ,""no! desired. Such a sale sould creite najor- distiuciion toa lot of major trees as well as potentially hinderinq anaccess to the school property _ a major initial obje;civefor those persons attendting.- Finall!, the aaie ;ii;--
l{ayor anil City Council
October 23, L989
Page 3
assure the City the monies necessary to build the trail and
access drive without depleting other funds.
Recomme nda t ion Although the nonetary issue can continue to be
debated, it is staffrs belief that the recomnendation made on
Septenber 25, L989 best neets the concerns of the neighborhood
anal City. Saledition of nakinof the money fo
ofgsrt
the propelty to Mr. Kreidberg with the con-
uch a part of his existing 1ot and dedication
rail,/access construction is recommended.
+
Citl' OurEil tbetirq - !E tarber 25; 19g9
bnrcihan Johnson:
assist in talking?
ourcilnan Bolt !oo\red, &rrncil'an Jotnson Becordd to authorize drawing againsttl,e t€tter of Gedit arrr oorriarnation effective Ecsrber 1, r9g9 for orrr:, rhrmsSecord Additim if rc resolutim has Guredt by Norerber 3g, Lggg ard OrrryEa,*s.will ,iy. ,p tg progressirg aording to'a tire t"uie'e"iJri*,.a *itt, .,=ulE:' dur 1rg trEt lEriod. All voted in favor ard the motlon carrieit.
Should E also sa:/ sorethirg about that Cit:, staff iriU
Dn Isbrprth: I thlnk jrrst as the rrction is.
O. APPRO\IB R'NOASE AGR.EEMErI FOR SAIJ G PORTION OF T,['RRAY HILL TBIER Tq\IBSIIE TO GITARI A}O JILT,E{E XREIDtsERG.
ourcifuumn Dimler: r pulled ito, (o) becar:se there is scn=one in tlre audiencethat rculd like to address that ard I mrrler stDuld tlE!, ao ii ,pt,
'o.-
!o tovisitor' s presentation?
lE:,or Ctmj.el: t{e can do it right row. Eit}er rpn or later.
ounciltunan Dimler: Oka:r. tt. I'byrE ttansdal rpuld like to slEak to thatissrre please.
$:T e rtansaar 3 Iq na* is rihlrre kansdal. r live at 6209 rrtray tf,tt rcaa.First of all r'|d rike to thank-1ou for ruorrirg tti" t.* tr=.**t'G-tr=discrrssion agerda. r appreciati tte opport,iity. rry p.iro..y-.#.n iJ ,ttttte procedrue used for tre proposed saii. rirsf of iri,-*.'tr...-i'g]iri",offerirg or rotic.e of tlre proposeA Eale? es f,ar as I 6or, rrne ot-tL=neighbors north of tln properll' that Es proposed for eate'rere -fntoi& o.aEre-t+t t})e propert:, es for sale. fes i st,ra1, ccrpfetea *o d n t*"l- of thF IEoIErt:' ard ms !l? properq, aeaU aripfrrs? ,r""; trbli. J,tit:,,qt i: tre p.rocedure for erlirg nuri3 poop"oty oi Frbrtc aooaia
-ron1s
erepricE detemi.ned? rf tlE proper[-, is eori, i*raifs ti"-;;GL--ilri,:L u"retained ard *lat is itrs trTpo-! In_tJE'IEst, nan:, lEarE !9o, I rtt€rded6wEir n€etirBs uh€n tlE sctroor district tris aira tri city 6'ardIi"r= o*of tleir eassnent on t}e ciqr p.operty tor ress to trc siei til;: --rb
,="tlr acress frqr the road. lE ttnE tirie t}p reassr fonDt ,rsi,E G roi ms rtEs a lrivate road. Itrs rDr a p:bllc rc.d ad Ft &ress is s;itl ft; th"
;3113, f"ry1.t_ rte grsticr fio tre school i;, ard rigrrtfuliy-Ll--ora
-!lu"I, 13 r.rr, srDo1d re povide acces-E *En tleyr re golrg-to eri orr-Gir os,.lf,ry don't they rrse t}eir ocn *ess- frqu a prbric road? lf ttE bnat is aord,.re tlEre an:, reetrictions or can there b arqr restrictl-u --tf. f"iIr" u* ofcE tard? 6rrr.d there be a variance for a tde ror i-graii r"ti-ciiiiit u.used or restrlctd for outr.ots? 6urd it ue reatrtcta at-.iii' riitia, ,q,prinar-v cc.ern ls the procedure. I lgree vltn ibfegati,r, b-it=- 1;;'g9ss1b'I9 l6re1. t€t rdrlns.trarive peopie tto rrhat tlEi ,r.J to do-hrt1h;..sbould be drr proc.eas "" !,,"r everha-r'i * "F".E1^td ;6.ru;;*lsDE rhat tlE City is dolrg sitlr [tE ;-ople rs il*,rre".
Ha:ror Ctniel: trank 1ou.
15
cit:' collrEil tGeting - Seg mber 25; 1989
Oor,Ei!'ran Jobnson: lt. Ma]ror? I have to agree rrith the proceduraL aslEcts ofthis and before I nake a notion here Ird like to also say there, s covenants in
here that rb buitdirg will ever be built on this. Itterers also actess to begiven to the Cit], on an eas€trEnt so uE can service tlE rEter tolEr frofl thatside. So for those tLD things, re are prwidirg both of those so there wiIIrsrer be able to be a house b.lilt on that stEl l lrrotErt:, plus the Ci tl' wiU rDlorglr need ttE acrcess frqr tte sctpol area. Brt proc€durall1,, I'd like to fini
olrt if sE nay have goofd r{, here becarrse there nay be sme, E tia:r have to doprblic offerings ard stuff like that for exc€ss ard I,d like to talte itsrtil . ..
l€1or Ctmiel : Or can E address it nor,i,
GiI Eeidberg !. h:rbe I cruld add sorethirg because Irn the \er.Iite to tcar r*rat I have to sa:2
tibuld :rou
l{a1or Ctmiel: Certainly.
Gil lcei&erg 3 Sqre of lrou are fauiliar with tnis situation. !ry na€ is GiI
IGeidberg. I reside at 6444 !tura], HilI Road. Sqre of 1ou rrtn rEre on the
CorlEil a lEar ard a half, 2 ltears Egor rrE started ttris lrocess ard Roger
Frutson, t}!e Ci t:, AttorrE)r, are faniliar wit}t this situation. Itrs a little
rrcre involved than just an outright sale of the propert:, m the Frt of the City
for excress lard. A couple lreals ago tlE City wanted to build, Frt a road
through to the torEr and tlose [Eople in tlEt area, south of the toEr and sone
to the north. Right at this tjre I don't know but other [Eople objecte+
strongll, t}|at the:, had tjte rcess ani t}lat tlEy eould possibly acquire at
acoess, a [Etftanent acress frcn t]e sctpol district behird their... tits rere
c.orEerned q) tiere of changlng tle envirorurent. foage to the trees and takingrisk to tle kids that play q) there ard so qr ard in ttE last 2 :'eara t've
srked along witlr tlE Pleasant Hills llqreoifiprs Ass€iation trylnS to Erk ort a
cq>rcmise sith the Citl' so ttE!' could get nhat ttE]' Bnt ard Ue could be
satisfied r*tere rra are in terms of the rct resflt at t]E €nil. I.\re EEnt the
last:rear rrrking ver]r closel:, with Gaqr $hrr€n, ttE city Egirer, tr-virg toErk out a curprclnise r*dch re felt rE had tere. Irm sorr:, that tJris
g€'ltlstran I s corcerned about tlE procedule ard I urderstard that ls$E brt
essentiall!' utEt Es determined i.s that, I reside directly to tlE Eouth of t}!at
piece of prolErq' shich rears that Uhat this is goirg to be ls tlris pieae of
lard is going to becqre IErt of q!, :,ard. It isn't goirg to be trrilt inarything. Itrs mt goirg to be dbvelognd. tbthirg i s golrg to ptq'Eicrl}!, clurger{, tjEre ercept ,Dw it wil} be a 10 f@t ride gravel Fth with a gate t}Et siII
I[errent sruxrobiles ard all t]E otber stuff that 1111 go throrryb t]nre lf t]ey
donit gate it, frcm goirg back to the to€r b.lt it wltl be leked ard t.he eityrill b able b actess tlE torrr frqr ttE east side. I h.\re agred tn kird tohrild a fence alorg tjrat FtlE!, r*tich wlIl el lninate ror &lftirg dd Gtuff
llorg their rEt, rod ard it also 1111 protect tlE c|rl+sE atorrl to ttc auttrqainst tlp afiitional atlvity t}|at slll be generated rot crJ.y bry ttE frct ttEt
rore laple livirg qr there brt bg tlE fact that there 1111 rpw be vetriclea
erterirg in there that r€re rDt €nterirg in t!:re before. ItE lot ns alpraised
as tlnugh it ras a h,rildabte lot. okay? It is &\riousl!, rDt . bulldable lot. I
have agreedl to Fy a brildable Iot tEice r*dch is rDre than *rat the City Fuld
otlErwise get uith tlE covenants tlEy [rrt Cl lt lf tlel' just Frt it q) at
arrtion or ufEtever. Ite reason Iim rilling to do tiat ls &viorst3r it beoes
part of rry yaril. Secordl:,, ltrs irport nt to re in a sense to prot€ct qa
l6
investssrt ard tlp trneourErs arourrl ne to roake sure tlut this thirg ls doneright. In a sense htEt Irm doirg is fuding tlE Cit:r.s abi.lity to iri-tfrt roadin. I don't think that therers &en an issG lrere tirat tle citizer; ;fGpnhas-n are rDt benefitted b!, rdEtrs takirg place. f app.ecfate tf,"pssibiliqr th"! th" procedure na1' have ueen 6iiferent buCih-ai;c,ns;rEestbat brought this rfiole thing about 9! back 2 !,ears ard they have to ao ,ftf, "lot rmre than just ne. .r*'ve ueen g5irq tt'orltr trrii ioii'yeai".-r-Luraappreciate ro! tabl ing it aro mrrtrq foimrd "ir""" ty *,.r."-:o" -t";.-"or,"
Btrorg objectim raowirg.the backgrourd arrr circr.nstaices that-E ao !.o"e"atonight. otherwise Ird just like-to go forrErd becarrse itrs t ken " iot ottire, both mire ard tle Eity's arri I.; "*....-
Ibn rsttrcrth: rtn points brorght o.rt are @rrect. rtre mty thing r might acriris that it did lnvolve a.rot oi peopre throrrgh that $hole p;;;'"rd;'rot ofpeople cuning into tlre city 6urEil- 4ain rrci1, ctrrerned ,ltr, tr,. LLi. rErycorcern€d wi ttr acress E? -tlE- scttool. . Veq, co-,rernea wittl tff tfat Eopertynisht be used as it rculd rer.ate-again u.it to-ue-tiii-.!err#,ii-5a -.still.acral'Plistr tlE Cit:, "g:+ f9f tfrat property. In tetms- of tfe lrocAuraf
1t9s3io1 regarding t}re legalit!'_of Frblisiid, etc. tfrat ts rpt t;erl-srA rthink rhat rhe raw unrersrards-iss'& suih "!'tiri" -rh.; t}eEityilri.t ""i.*t."= to }pw it's going to best serve tr,. "iti-n" in tr,"t -ar3"-ii'Lrr
"=the Cit]' itself.
Coucilnran Johnson s Can I lrear frcn bger fi that or€ Don?
bn lsttrorth: Sure.
,bger Frutson: Biddirg is r,t required for the sare of prolElty. other stuff,:Es but. rbt real estate.
ot.lrcihEn lrtrrlftan: ttEtrs the Etual size of tie lot?
Gil Kreidberg: tbt 6ren 2a}:drs. ebout .{{5 of-an acre. Brildable logs .{)$ere 9o for, r rean it ms alpraised at ttE-eqrtvarer,l-or "b"tJii,iii.ss *the basis of a cenrract for ded assrmrrg ri'i'a uuiraaur" r"i ;;;';;i*t*."ato py cash lf tley crrt it to g3g.ggO.SA:..
ourcilnran Bolt: ltry isn.t it a buildable Iot?
cil Eeldberg: Because ]rour re Fttir€ a ov€rE rt in tiere tiat bus !G r canrtblild a tse stlr.Eture qt it.
otrEitrJr Bo:rt: Blt otlersise lt rculd be?
Gil rceidberg: othen iee in tbeory it could be trrt gur rr,ur, r.tgr E Erttnrorgb this discrrsslon...:rou eren.t on the OwEtf- at tfre [ine] tf, tf. fa""ms ug glted to keep it rtke tt rs ard tlE crty Entd to g"t iLir-re"" uotE sttll had to rcrk m a colrodse rd r ttun-r tule rs-fri;-bec;;se--
=:_en!ially
lrtEt rjr-o 99ing to ab 1?-g"r tlE clq' to prt trn rod tn ard th.tges m ttE tax rolt utrich rens I.IL F:, taxes.ln tL-turr.;;;f'6-iltronrdEt eire pldrg ron.
ourciLnan ,rohnson: Is there an!,rE!, to cutbirc ttris lot at,it yulr lot to r&ereit becres dE lot of reoord vereus-trc lots?
L7
City 6wcil tEering - :ptatrber 25; 1989
City &r:rriL lbeting - Se. ruber 25; Lggg
&nEilrdutEn Dinrler: I have a qrEstim ft. Kreidberg.
clean it q. I$uld :rou explain that a little bit rmre?
You sa:' that :Du ku1t toI urderstand.. .
GiI Xreidberg: ...a c!q[e of the 6.yril rssers have. Itre City has let it godosrtrill- in t}e rast 15 years dd itrs got h-rbed wire fuices. ri,s got <!ebrii.Itrs really a mess.
Courrihuran Dirnler: Brush you nEan?
Gil. Xriedberg:
.
tbt jrrsg 5.*6. I rm talkirg about the larrl directJ.y to tJremrth of this piece of protErty is a farrtr. Itrs a little horse fargn. ft'sabout 2 L,/2 acres ard t}ley lceep horses ort tlEre an! rp until tley actu$ly
developed the area ritrere I ar, rfiich is about I lears ago, this qr{i, usd to fethis tprses ard everlthing rrarder over tJEre. rc hrltt,-te prt rf LrUea rireferres ard an old r{ood ferre ard r nEan therera atr kirds o} aeuiis that t{as I
thrOr,n t}ere frqn shatever the Eources are ani I told t.}E City tnat I rDufd, at
rqa expense, clean that prolErt:r r.!p.
@urEilEran DiJtl.er: yourre rDt talktng about clearirg trees ard stuff?
Grl Rriedberg: 0h, that j.s the Last tltirg that I Ent to do. I nean therer s aIdg letter...
Outilmen Djrrler: Alrigbt, thanks.
lElor Ctniel: Ing furtlnr digcrrssion?
(blEihan lbrlfr : So trts baslcally IEy&lg g3SroeS .dl for lees than a lElfof an acre qr tbere?
Er lstmrt-h: &.t b crn.t bulld cn.
6rEt&ran hrlodt: Ittat b cm.t hrlld qr?
!b1or Ctmlel: Rtght
Ot[Eihan tsrlman:
&ryEll.nan Johnson:
l{ight sonebd!' else be interest€d in this foperty?
Ally if tley could hdld ql it.
18
Gil- Kreidberg: you know Itve asked Gr:, about that ard I grEEs he rranted toerplore tlat. I donrt klor{.
bger fiutson: you get one pIN nrrriber for it, !'eah.
courEi]l'E r Johnson: Because if itrS orE lot, then lourd have to srHivide.
You rve have to cu€ in ard reqrrst for a suEtvisiqr in order to buildl ttEsecord tpuse an it.
cil Krei&erg: I have rD problanr with if l,ou Ent to set it r{) that Ey.I just Ent it as,a yard ard I Ent Lt as i buffer against thii rod ari I,.golng to... It will be a nice deal r.l€n it.s .I] done.
Don trstrrDrth: I€ cpuld start the prG€ss o\rer ard adyertise. I just fird itvery diffio[t to bel ieve r*rcrs going to br:v lt wder similar cortitims.
Gil Krei&erg: Also rgnenrber there. s a rrater toyEr directly behlrd it. Itrs anice ruroL itlr but it isnit an art for][ 1ou muld rrnuall1r...
Oureiirlan norlman: rs this kird of for the reighbor's, r*tp voiceit corcerns, ist}tat brirg ttrings a littre better lnto focrrs naybe as f,ar as the o:rchase?
}lrs. Bansdal: ...tD o]E knen anlthtrg about this. trb hd ro idea ttris rasgoirg or- Eee tlE l{cida's direcill', tney had rD otportunity to bidt ar t},eEroIErty...I just rorder hq, ttE Clty...ard erhat does he rrean u, a lekd gate?
Gil feidberg: tb, m. q"t t}E Citl, is gotrg to do, this ls for loru bestinterest. ftF glty i9 going to brild a fS ro;t ride gnavet path ti;t aii;ttEr to get their vetricles back to the tos. freg, riff aI6 providte pedestrianacress to the middle sclroor anl tln fierds ard so qr back betri-nd there ssEr,,hatto satis4, the trail Fttern here ln Chanhassen.
Its. Etansdal: Will ttE children be able to get...
Gil trreidberg: Ch absolutel:,. tre reason for ttte lek is to prevent thesebozors uho rwr these snomrobires out across there fron golrg aiross l,trrrry HirIard strooting right do', t],p! Fth r*pre tlre kids a!e. ite iate wiu ar10,pedestr ians through. rt niu be rocked. rtE city sltl be iuti to-"nrai totake their trucks dov,n in there ard rerock it r*E-n tley leave
"o
-* aor,it ra.r. .road in there that will have traffic. OrIl' tln ore,s L,re sr+posea 3o trave.
l,h1or Clmiel: It,s basicall), for the ress of the Ctty b get to there?
Gil Kreidberg: That is correct ard for tlE pedestrl&s to get back anl forttr.
rs. ftansdal: :Ihis is orr only lega1 sl!(I*ay to UIS.
GiI lceidberg: fbatrs right ard you.re goirg to Btill...
l'la-g,o-r ctmiel : Right ard t}at etill r,ill b beauee tne city wlll Btilr ffii tiat1., feet.
Gil. rei&erg: 20 fet.
la:ror CEriel: G excuee rE, 29 feet.
ItB. ftansdal: &d rDs roaintaln it e ttE drildtren en slk?
IAlroI Ctmiel: Right.
cil ttrel&erg 3 [latrs tlc rfiole tdea.
O|[Eilt[. l Johnson: ttat Es tlc rhole FEpose of thie Es to qet ttlt rEry.
-fu 9thi" P.rt is Iu, are e goirg to get tfn trall frou 65tn S€ieet over. fhathasn't been resolvd :Et. nhatrs anotrcr qe. t tjDrn rn rry eiae. - -erier
zlEars E hav€n r t resolvd.
City Ourcil tbetirg -.apt€niber 25, L989
t9
!,a1,or Ctrdel: thatrs not tle issrc.
@urrilnan Johnson: B:t t}is rdrl be erren better, right nor{ they have to tBlk
tJrrough that lot ard it'is rrct in any gooil cordition. Ttrey have -to clinb thebarbed wire ferce ard ever:thirq to get back there I grress.
Its. Eansdlal: Itrere, s a Little path ron.
Gil lEeiclberg: Right. lbve:,ou noticed the logs that are ln front of the path
rDw that tlSP cut dorn ard left in tle ruiddle of tte patlr. yan sill ha\re abetter acEess back t}ere because lour lr literally haie a 19 foot wide graverPaq:. It si}} be eaqg for people to get...gate lo you don't trave errnioUitetraffic or gral.l rrotor vehlcles rfio roight decide it;d be a good tile to gostrootirq through there.
!ts. hansdal s Orr nain djection Es to the proc€dure ard rDt...
GiI- Iceialberg: Itrs nry intent to infom !t. ISida ard f,trs. fsida $hatrs goirg
on b.rt itrs onlY been a few days that Itve lslorn about it ard r just haveni t hada charEe to vislt witi tisI.
o:rcilran Bolt: I have jrrst a guick qrrstion. Brplain to le lnn kids are
qoirg to get tlEough the ferre but snornrobilea arerl, t goirg to get throrrgh tieferre?
Gil Kreidberg: 4fErentl:r, as ery has described it, ard I have mt Een a
nicture of tlE kird of gate. Itrs the kird of gate that ttey can 1ek frrt itall.orr 5=destrian traffic. tE said theyt re used it m ane other ent4,E:/. Idon't l(rror{ if itrs to a rrater torEr or arpther facility here in OpntnssEn. tbsaid tlrere rEsi one t ike tlrat but the idea ms , rtratever ttn use, r t ve -en thegebefore. tbt here in tlinnesota b'tt elsaitlere r*here the gate leks ard 80 s1...e snom&ile, 1ou might be able to rerginall!, get tlrorryh Utat. I donrt lsow.
orrEilnEn Bolt: Okay, but ttE lntent is to allow ttc mlkirg pBtlt to...
GiI kie&erg: IbsoluteUr. nbsolutely. Itrs a tm prorg thirg. CE, so :,ou61 get tlE truck back ard trD, so that E eople can get back an, forti. It,a beself &featirg if the peopJ.e cantt get back and forth.
OlrEilnan Bolt: I think tlr rclgtrbors have brorryht rp an anfully god point. Ibole e've learned scr€thing frcm it ard Iid like to aee ua nD\re L-UUJ rpo.
olrEilsan Worlftan: ftEt Irn tqrirg to get at lB there ttc slighteBt ctrree,ad mybe tlp Etansdal r s carl .rnErer thls right rw, rcu1d sonr*oay else beinterested in tlis protErtlA lgain, lt is all of our protErq, ard e are
FUII|S it ard it alfEars P-b". " good deal qd :oo aIDear to be ttoirg rrs goodht tJris transaction bnt could there Ue sdrebody ort tfnre tnat rntght ielnterested ln also ot*rirg this prolErty.rd t]tat aeems to b tle irarZ C lntihat ls goirg gl with it.
IEr ldftDrth: frn rDt erre. fte issrre origlnated t*!€n, Ell rot orly Ere Elookirg at ttE trail but I believe s had a pblic tlq,ro\/grlent ln tle pracss.
Gil Eei&erg: Iou Ented to trtrt a road in t}ere dd ttE...
2S
eit:r 6wEil tbeting - se nber 25r 19g9
bn Ashrcrth: tte nerqtiborhod had .* out ard re hait 29 peopre who r.re heretalkine on the issue -! ei;" i*rii,.t * iil i""u.-n J -"tiiiil'"yJo r.o,r,if r rDr d have berieved that ti.E neiittortrooa-'traa not suporteit -[t i"-Jr,ti."transaction or there r€s an:,one else iho tEs interested oi- tbere *= *,Ecsticr that this had not originated frcn tte;i;tb.;lr""d it"iil-r-E""" *-*9 B": golg thlough a different dvertlssrEnr process than r€ did b:t rrearly had ber ieved this ras kird of a grass roots- process trut ttey-tnarseivesEre starting ard finall:, a !,ear ard . folf tater 1p finistred.
Gil f,reidberg: Irn sorry. _I thought everlto4, rtp ms lErty basicall!, yasamre of tie rEt resurts. . rtpy roai not haie .it u*n amre of that thi.s resgoing to be decided here this Lrenirg b"";"".;; I said, i-:o"t-forJoot o^hida:, so.
Iih!'ne- Fransdal : try cfinEnt is regarding the availabilit:, of tne infornration.lE teLeptroned the three neigtlbors croseit a, the rprttr side of this ani rxlrE oftlsn rcre arrare. rf it's giass rots, it .rr= t *-" ,"ii*"rr- gioi-*iat lntle deverognent or people. & the soutlr utD trad an interest ln it.- rt peopte onthe r.rth.r.,ho have eqrral interest and cess i; HrG-il;p...y-L iirl Ln".rrere not informed.
Gil
. Kreidberg: fhey rere infotmed. ItE}, t€re inforxrEd all. along 14> rrntil
lonight. _ Ihe], t{ere trErq'. Ihe}, signed i p"iiti-, tf.y Oj*t*i'to-til-roa tobesin witn. lts.. r{oida did ard -"" aia x.. ie"r".r"r,";d-ifi-.th"ifrre m treoFPosite corner of the tlacFarlarErs...
aCourci lnan Johnson: Could :rou teII -rlE rrtrat pur djection is? fftat are ],ou_tr-virg to g?in b], stoppirg thj.s-tonight? rOi1a p.-fif. to pr..t"* [i"Zt{oul'd }'ou like to nake us an offer? -r,n tryrG io ,rrrerstari -rdr;;;;..
,.cmirg frch?
Itslme Etansdar: tt.re rrm cq''ing frcm is tj,e frustr-ation *ith the ddnstrationin tlealing with a rot of issrps in tre "itv.
- [ ..n "* rn, de,reropers cancore in, nake a proposar T T..Iryl:., "ni tr=i-set an approva:. arrl. Oe1, go ortanl dg uhatever they can negotiate iattr tte st.ir. rhis ie a c.se that i,ras ueennegotiated lri.th ttte staff ard tlpre es -t prUii. i;Fr. ;;; ;;.;;'illropre ln the area - Ma6e is a frustratiol iirry p"rt that E ru.,e trrrfts rr,ow reishborhood r}tat ii r.tr.il"ia*rr!-ii;?;^t .&JLariLi.-1ua -.be approved but r*ren rEootiations uitrr'stafi, -ily grl ,p Xing'Grt l,a tr,.r"tlE!, are.
Cowcilnan Jolnson: So are :pu. ejecttng to tne roadEl" Are :pu ojecting tothe Citl' trEks goirg tfuou6r tfnrla
rtb:'E kansdar: rb- r tnilk- tl -= oty sttould have er's to the Eter tor*rfrqn tlp p.rbl ic propertw l,trtdr tl=y oi",. a& .t belleve that a cqrlete et,dyr,s been r*de m ft fuy? ,rse octlris property. rtren e rooxea it ir-i thirgsthat are belrq dae fro digglng 3 grpe in ir rista,rrg prbJ.ic easmntsl etud studies. r* had enviroffentat ffict atraro. lt f,a;Jf.t;r;'Lur."atd I don't bel ieve ttnv have Ueen acie ard f;; ; b a.y therer s s@r€ elsethat i6 interest€d in 6e p,ropertyr
- I certalnly donrt lspn rrd ,D ,E in tprecarl anslG|r uhether ao]tEor€ elee ls lnterested inless 1,ur aaX. f.I!,Dt aqainEtthe sare. r.tn against tle procedure. t;t-;;ii-6;-tr"';r:." '"' -
City Corrrcil tteeting - -eptatber 25, 19g9
2L
Cit:r Corlrril ]€eting - Ser' rriber 25, I9g9
tlalor Ctmiel : I agree rrith tlE corEEpt ard tlE iilea that 1ou have.
Cotrcihurran Dimler: ftut strould have been done?
Canncilran Johnson: I can see staffrs point of vieq,. ttrs a little nEtterthat's been going on for a lear ard a lralf, trp:,ears sirce before I was on tlreCotrEil $hen this es origlnall:' atpro\r€d there. Ihis thirg has been goirg on
and m ard the developer caused sqrle of the frustrations r*ten te didn,t give ustle trails he uas sr4posed to glve us ard everlthirg else ard this is staff'sey of curirlg to a corrlrrsion on about half tlte goblatr rDw so sE ruaintain tlrat
otr=n, it ras kird of Ourrcil a f* years ago, 2:Ears ago, $hatever E Ere ontlis, OourEil directed to rerouEe tlrat trail tlrrougb this propertl,. I grEssthatis...
161or Ctmiel: I think thatis ver!' true.
OtrEi]Illan Johnson: I think it c.ould tnrre been hadled better.
thlor Ctmiel: I'il like to nEke a srggestion to staff that aII djacent
FoPerties be notified on an!, tr-ansaction of sale of pro[Erq, within ttn city.
Itrat 1€:' at least that procedure rculd be taken care of. t$tiryirE tle adjacrent
reighbors. lbkirg them awzlre of hltEtrs transpirirg ard ttren proceed frqn that.
o|rEilBlan Boyt: this has been sort of in Linrbo for at least a year. I ddlit
think re, nralDe re do, Irn rrct a$are that rE lose anlthirg by p$Iishlrg thatthis property is for sale as a rpn-buildable lot and 2 reeks frqn rpw resolveit. It seefts like reire follorirg a better procedure to do that. I
lra:ror Ctmiel s Yeah, I'm qeaking in tlre firture rlth any otSer transactions that
re do. As I look at this partiorlar piece of pro[Erq, Bitl, if tle rod is
going to be on the far erd adj acent to tnat t.t I. tb rD rDul.d, i.n nqr opinion,knt to wt that proprqw with a rod goirg throrrgh with an eassrEnt. I*Et he
bas is his land is abutting the protErt:r here ard of course ttre road sDrlld be
on, i.f re're looking at a northerly direction, it FuId be to tlE north of that
segnEnt riere ttn road rould go.
Gil keiclberg: It gives n€ a little buffer frqn all tjre traffic is really r*utlt cqres doin to. I rns willirg to Fl, a prsnltm because I live right ne:(t doorto it. Itp ctrances that sdrebod:, wiU pa:,:rou uhat l,r,r Fyrrq yorr, they.d haveto be, 1ou can't build sr it. If ]Du could butld m it, thatrs scthing. you
lslow IiII Ieave it q) to ]Dur jdgltEnt. tib sIEnt a lot of tfure tr:'tng to mrk
tE, EaEthirB that Es aqicable.
@lEilnan Jotnson: lrpther thirr, re strould have dor, lnstead of havlrg it 90
fe€t wide, e should have hd it 89 feet ride because at 9g feet it doe$it need
a variavre to b:ild at it. Ecause lt has the co\renant it does but at 89, itFrl.l ned a variare to htld ar it at all e E couldnr t e\ren 1rrt it anrithdrt a variare and the co\rcnant m top of ti.t. l.brd have ts E:rs oftelltrg tIEB, if ecnebody crc ln 10 years fro rpw tr:rirE to bulld tlue, e.d
Sa:, lrou (rtirt-
Dn Ast*prth: As lorg as lt.s considered a lot of record though tl-y ouJ.d
build or it. If 1ou bought a lot in tlE dorntorrc ayd lt's 6g terlt ln rldth, aslcg as lrou tEt setlacks.
22
Is :rour existing lot a reets ard bowd description oq is it a
City Grrrril I'beting - pteniber 25, I9g9
ntEt about nqr orig lnal sugEestlon of nEking lt part of sry
YouI lnotErt:, that :,ou presentl!, osn is a lot tn block, ls ttrat
cir lkeidberg: you see *Et haFened is t}ey pratted 6 lots in rtrat t}ey carlPg:?"t Hills oka:, ard this of crurse 1s rni iart oi ifo*"lttitf;.-AryG"
tslling ne sorcthing ard Iin rDt arre that ttreie;s tr tEys. Ote is to l(eepthis separate ard the otlrcr ss to klrd of redo it ard I -tiri"f tt=lr-n* Lsrrvey it and t}en tlEre rEL-e sae fees in filinq but r think it corrld be doneani like r said, r have rD
-
problen wi tlr that. rim rrt goirB t brird-"ritrri^g.I can't bri ld it. It.s goirg to be a 1ard.
Ooutrcilnan Johnson: I think tlE City stDuld pal, t}|osp gsg6 ard ruke it as asingle lot.
cil Kreidberg:
partj.orLar lot?
hger lhrrtson:
Iot in block?
Roger flltson:
right?
Gil &eidberg: pardon m.
hger fiutson: Iou have a lot in block legal descrlptior?
Gil keidberg: res r do. rs a natter of f.ct r tlrink r have rt here.
&ger E'otson: see if rDu had a lrEets anil bo.rtts, then lDu aqrld luke cE t=etsard bor-uds dess ip,t i,.' rhG-adrpr r G ii] -it i"- *6-,-,.,Sir'a.-.ti"Lrt pocan cqnbine thsn for tax Fuposes. tEve dre pIN nu6er b!, .oriir,g ,iG ir=oounty ard if pu ever mnted to divide a prN nu$er, y*i*-g"[ L-GL'u""t totie Cit1,.
Don Ashrcrth: rhatrs sqrething tiat sttould be 100ked at. the co'enant is g@dbut as l,E as it's a separate legal lot of record, it could be b,rila ;".
ourEilnan Johnson: t€Il i.f itrs a separate legal lot of reference, tlE:, stillhave to have a variarne to btrird an if even ttoQn rt," a regJ-rot'oiilcora.
llalor Ctmi.el: they can nake it contiguor.rs tlDugh can,t tiey bger?
hger lhutson: If ttev legall!, split tt, orr :rou have a legall:, split lot, Idsr't lspw how theyid let it riSaity qiit-ii-ii Ere oI!, 89 feer brt if theyrere soehow to nanage to acrorpristr trat arrr they cre ii tor a ""ri-arn , arothe:, onm 89 fmt tot, met att other orttinance '"qA,f;.*,G, :.. a'iliiliiy u.hard pressed to turn dorsr a reqrcst for a-varia*.
orncilnan Johnson: thless there ms tle cuenant?
Ibger firtson: thless there Els a co\reruDt, clrrect.
couci],qan Johnson: r n*an :Dutd stirl ent both. you rDuLdn, t get rid of thecurenant. Ithat rDuld it take to cqtbirE lt to or€ lot?
23
City CourEil !€etj.ng - Se. nber 25, 1989
counci lnan Johnson: lhe co\renant is strorg enough to r*here they'rl rever beable to brild dl tlEre.
ollrEilnEn Bo:rt 3 I?Ett: the best E:, to do it. Otherwise, the:, can srrbdividethe lots s&eday ard build.
Ourciltr.En Johnson: I,Fll the covenant rculd still sta:, ttEre rD natter *lat Edid.
&rrEilnan Bo:ft: tetis table this for 2 rreeks.
orrEiltrEn l$rlgllan: Secord.
t{a1or ctniel: rtrs been no\red to table for 2 Feks to cqe up rrith a csrlusionard sittr a seclni.
oo-rEirnan Johnson: rb talk to tte reigtibors arrl inform the reighbors.
oourciblan l{orloran: rnfon the nelgtibors ard set rp a pol icry that rE can forloweach and every tirrre tE have a si trEtion I ike t}is .
bn Ashworth ! rt wirl be sbort noticE that will e=ur in the rEtdsEEIEr. t€ cando it brt E trun it i.n for tltls ttida:' ard it rDuld then ag4nar fi ihefollonirg l{ednesday which t}en rcu1d be heatd b!, the City Ciinrlf c, forO"y.
ourrilnan t{orloran: Is sEe enough? t-
Ibn Ashrcrth: You potentially muld have a challenge that I only sai, this.
tla:ror Ctmiel: Can rE rEtify those adjacent protErt!, o*ers by letter?
Dn AshrDrth: Yeah. Iirn jrrst sa:ring that Ie still have really the saoe listfron the last tine.
l{a1or ctrniel : rhat FuJ.d process it anil nnke it rmve just a little faster.
ourcihan rbrlsun: rf r clourd brirg r.p qE ottEr t}trg whlre tb rootim hargshere also ard scnE frustration q, tlEre. rtrs a different sort of a hill r4rthere as I rn- tord by t}le reighbors. rt- Es 9o1rs to t€l&e be carl ton couege wthere possibly t€y back? r don't lcor tps re tost carl-tm 61re9i trrt -i- rcuritllk ttf gpllteerlrS sqlf ard Eve, lf loutre listairg, r be1i&-ii." ""ff"aSq*rset Clrcle t-here off of hr:ray HiII-bad. Itpre.s-i targi, ,e"i-targeditctr there- r guess rid tike a littre bit ruore informattsr.--rEi"h6";;
_clarnirlg that perhaps that ditch is soret}irlg t]rat lt rEver Es tn[errrua to ueln the devd.opoent oontract. 6r e ctek ort *nt tre crrcustare are wrtrrttEt? Itrs tln rorttr dltch off of Scerset.
Gurci&Bn .hhnson! Ih.tta . illfferent srHlvisiqr.
OolrEilm.n lbrlftan: Rtght. Ert aga1n, adjacent to.
Gll Xreidberg: ItEttd be to uE mrth rbout a blel(.nl a half or co.
24
city Oouncil tbeting - ^eptenber 25, I9g9
Courrilnan Worknnn:
frrrstrations.
vISITm PRESEI\IrATI0{S: Itpre Ere rDne.
PTJBLIC HEARI}G: ASSESSI{BTI HEARTil3 AlD ADoPTIoN G AssEssT,lEM RotJs:
A. XEFtsER BOULEVARD II{PRfiIB{ETT PROJEST T\D. 87-9.
Bill. Ergelhardt: rour lbnor, ten&ers of tle courcil, this is tle assesgenthearing for tre Kerber Brvd. ilrprovsrsrt -Foject. rte totar cpst of tlle project
?i,!1fll840:..2... ItE project_rns c.orrered hf 55t tar( ircrsrent furds ard generafobli'gation with tle bararce of the c.st to be spread against the benefittedIrrolErties along l(erber Bled-. . rtE de\relotErs ot cran-vista, saaareuioot, ttpJarEs lxopert]', all had develolrEnt agreaEnts rhere they agieea to ttreassessnEnt ard ttlose assesstEnts have been collectd as the-l0ts have been sold.the lots that have rDt been sord, those assessents are or the assesslEnt rolr.ItE project clst sas slightl:, rrder -the _
origtnal bid munt '*licfi "f,o,J ,p ""about a sz,1gg.gg redrrction in tj|e feasibirity stuaty cost for t}l" t"i "ir...,=nt
ard general obligation. .Wlth that Ird be haEE!, to ;n51Er ar,y.f,..iii* l.ottight have dl the project.
!{a1or ctmier : An},one have any qrrestions at this tirE? rs trEre anlrcne wighing
!o addres this for the prblic hearirg? rf so, thrs ls lour oportirnttl, to cfiEforth and address i.t ard if 1ou do, please staie pur nare rna- !.* aaaiess.
&urrilrnan Johnson noved, Gurrllrnran Dinler s€conld to close tle prbl icE".ir,g- ALl voted in f,avor ant the rmtion carried. Gre pbric t=.i i-rrg *"closed.
Esolution *89-La4 z G.oEir-ruan Johnson no,ed, 6wr11sran Dimrer Becon ed todopt lhe lerber Boule,rrard assessrsrt roII as ndified datd SeptsE&er U,1989 wit}r-a pytack term of 8 lrears with an establi# ,ith in'ter-est-at ulerate of nlr€ [Ercent (9t) of the rnpaid bararre. A].1 votd in f,avor .'d tr=rrtlon c.'ried.
B. IIINNEI'BSIITA I{EADSCS Il{Pnr'\'E{Er'T PNO'ET llc. 88-2.
Frblic Ees€nt:
XrrE Ereas
G.ry Carlson 3831 tEst 6zd street
25
B:t again, itrs a uniqe area q) there ard therers sote
courEih.an Bo:rt moved, courci lnan rg)rklE r seconded to table a5provirg a FrrcbaseAgreeltent for sale of a portion of ttrrra:, HiIl trbter 1rorcr Site to Gilbert ardJillere tGeidberg so staff can rotify reigtibors. Au voted in favoi "na tn"rEtion carried.
,*r=j7CITY OF
CHINHISSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 - rt iit'ir.iit':ir!
-*.4NEUORANDUIIT
lO: Don Ashworth, City llanager
FROH: cary llarren 1 City Engineer
DATE: September 20, 1989
SUBJ: Approve PurchaseHiIl l{ater TowerFile No. PW158B
A9
Si
OuD\UN
-il;Zil
reement for Sale of Portion ,t flr#!{tte to Gilbert andl Jillene Kreiilberg
As a part of the Pleasant Hill eubilivision trail issue, and water
toerer site access concern, Mr. GiI Kreidberg who residles at 6{44
llurray Hill Roacl had expresseil interest in acqulring the easterlyportion of the Cityrs 1ot. A catalyst to this issue was the
Cityrs interest in providing auxllliary access to the ttgFray Hill
water tower site frour }rurray EiII Roatt. This is especia'1ly
important dluring the wintertine since it is a nore shelteled
loute and not as likely to be snowbound as is the case rith ouruestelly access over the school property (aee iranuary 21 , 1988ataff report ) .
lluch discussion with the neighbors and ur. Kreidberg have beencarrieil on over the past year. we appear to have reached an
agreement with lrlr. xreidberg anil the neighbors whereby the Cityroulil agree to sell a poltion of the eater toyer eite as ghown in
AttachEent 12 with the understanding that the northerly 20 feetof the cityrs parcel woulil rernain in City ownership and rould be
utiLizecl as a multi-purpoae trail and gravel drive access for theCity's nater toser site. ltr. f,reidberg is lntereatedl ia cleaning
ug this parcel of property antl llkewige the City uould place
appropriate control gates to prohibit the unauthorized access of
vehicular traffic onto thiB drive. One of the pine treee yithin
the City's 2O-foot flontage rould in all ltkelihood require remo-
va1 ia ordler to coDstruct the l0-foot accesa drive andl trail.
Ihe City had an appraisal done on the easterly portion of thisproperty. The appraiaal coet of 939,000 haE been proportloBately
acaled down to reflect the City retaining ornerehip of tbe Dorth
20 feet of this parcel . Ihe $30,000 purchaee price is baaedl onllr. Kreidberg's ioterest in paying cash for thia traneaction.
.,.:'..,-.,J :
the contingencies section of the purchase agreenent contains thespecific terms of our agreement uLich tilr. Kieittbelg, as it rela-tes to the trail/water toner site access shich he has personallycorununicated to his neighbors. rt is therefore reconm6nded thaLthe -attacheil purchase agreement be approved for execution andetaff be directed to implenent the plln as specified therein. Aportion of the proceedls of the sale should bi ctetlicated to coverthe Cityrs costs for the access.
Don Ashworth
S eptenber 20, 1989
Page 2
Attachulen ts
c3
I
2
3
4
5
Staff Report dated January 2l , 1988.Location llap.Lette! fron Gilbert Kreidberg dated ltay 9,llemo to Roge! Knutson dated SepteEber 14,Purchase Agleement.
Mr. Gil KreidbergJerry Boucher, Utility SuperintendentFile No. Pfi159
1989.
1989.
t
CITY OF
THINHISSEN
1,'i..-'...i./-.-lV
TO: Don Asheorth,City llanager
City Engineer
t:., .l.hl/2.^ -
PROtrt: Gary l{arren,
DATE: January 21, 19Ba
-1J18/-C/__SUBJ: P!opose
File No
o lvater Toser off Murra y Eil1 Road
The City owns and operates a 200r000 gal1on elevated eaterstolage tank on the south 110 feet of Lot 31, Uurray EiII sub-division. The elevateil tank was constructed in 1972 and servesas the only rrater resevoir supply for the northeest portion ofthe City. As shown on Attachment No. 2 f rorn the toh,er construc-tion plans, the City acquired the total uidth of Lot 31 in orderthat the service access to the rrater toirer could be taf,tn off ofIrturray Hill Road fron the east.
fn 198t! , the Pleasant Ei11 subilivision road construction ras,,
I{EUORANDUIT{
coEpleteal with the extension oEilI Road dedicated as a publi
Development Contract called fo
Ostron) to donate to t.he Cityfor a pedestrian trail Eystemthe south lines of Lots 3 and
urray Hill Road south of Uelodytreet. In addition, the
he developer (Curtis and tratheerpetual lo-foot wide easementn9 the east line of Lot 5 anal
Attachments No. 3 and 4).
Ih'i Jri..:ei : :',. .i..i.r,x
ft{csrtap
alo4(
Prior to the construction of the extension of Uurray EiIl Road in
1984, the only access to tbe site was from the west, across the
Irlinnetonka School District property. Utility personnel have
experienced difficulties, particularly during the pinter oiththis route. eince sno, Crifts into this open area quite readily.At present we only have a verbal agreenent rith the SchoolDistrict for use of their property.
On the average, our eervice personnel visit the eater torer twoto three tines per reek to aee that everything is rorking pro-perly. The nost critical tlne for being able-to acceas ftri efe-vated tank is during the winter Eonthg rhen eguipEent
nalfunctions are more likely and the freezing tenperaturea canpose potentially hazardous tank operating condition8.
It is therefore our intent to utilize City property as originallyplanned, to construct a 'drivegay' access froD lturray Ei1I Roadl
PWo24
590 COULTER ORIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
to the grater tower site. The driveway location would be selec-tivel.y placed such that none of the living 50-foot pine treeseould be disturbed. Our intent rould be to favor the northerlysiile of the Cityrs lot as proposed in the original constructio;plan (Attachment No. 2). fnstallation of thii access rould be onCity property, thereby releasing us fron the vulnerability of theverbar agreement with the school. District. rhe east acce-ss alsois nore sheltered and as a resurt does not encounter such extrernesnow conditions. If this access is not a11oeed, I would suggestthat the city consider selling rhe east 200 feei (l acre) oi-tt,i"Property and use these funds to acquire a formal roadway easementfor the rresterly route and inprove this acceas road as 6est aspossible to facilitate better winter access to the water tower.
In a lelateal natter, the pedestrian trail easement which rabe provided by the developer along the east side of Lot 5 aBouth side of Lots 3 and 4 (see Aitachment No. 3) has not bprovideil to date. Mr. Ostron has indicated a desire to insprovide the easenent a1on9 the east anal north side of Lot 6this lot has not been sold as of yet. If the City rrere toaccept L,ot 5 trail easenents in lieu of Lots 3, rl , anil 5, twould not provide a through trail to the school property'asplanned unless it continued across the Cityis waier'to"i, "without the access through Lot 3I, the Cit! should hold ioreguirement for trail easements along Lots 3, {, and 5 whicall praticality provides the most diiect route to the schooperty and buildings.
sto
nd the
een
tead
since
his
ite.
thehin
J.,.pro-
To briefly address the other conments raised in Hr. Oatromrsletter of December 7r 1987 (Attachment No. 5), the sater toeer isa pernitted use in the RsF single family residential. district andfalls into the category of utility services tsection io-eiiislr.Crty service truck .intrusion" would be limited to a pick-uptruck visiting the site on.the average of two to threl timei perreek and rould be no Dore intrusive than the city Bnoeplowi otrictrI an sure are a welcome site rhen they visit the area.- The oixof notorized traffic with pedestrians-is no different thin-anyother traveLed street in the residential conmunity and, in iact,ou! current access nay pose more of a Eafety hazaid for childrensince we travel across Helodly EiIl Roadl and-a portion ot-itreaoccer playfieltl for the school. Lastly, the bevelopnentAgreenent cited by titr. Ostrom applies ipecifically to hls deve_lopnent. Our intentions are however to linit the iidth oi o",access drivenay to the bare uinimum to accomodate our utllityvehicles and avoj.d removal of any of the so-foot pine trees.
unless the council chooses to act otherwise, re wilr proceed withinstallation of the sater tower access driveray troa iruiiiy airrRoad as planned.
Don Ashworth
ilanuary 21, 1988
Page 2
Don Ashrorth
ilanuary 21., 198 8
page 2
Attachnentss 1. Site Map
2
3
4
5
. Construction Plan gxcerpt
. Feature llap. Page 8 of the Pleasant Bill Development Contract. Letter from Curtis Ostrom dated Decenber Z, l9g7
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e-shaping said streets because of snow plowing operations ifthey ale iequested.
_ .5.97. _street Siqns. A11 streeregurred within ttre pIEE-E the tine oturnished and installed by the City aiDeveloper .
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ame anil traffic si gnsrty acceptance shall bee sole cost of the
5.08.Covenants and Restri ctions.Covenants orrestrifEFonsto be pl.ace n e lots in the sub ject plat shallbe prepared by the Devel opers and shall be approveii by the Cit vprior to rec ording wi th the County Recorder The Covenants an dRestrictionsshall be ap proved if they are con sistent with therequilenrents of thi s agreenen t.The zoning ordinances and regula-tions of the Cit y shall govern if inconsistent with said co venantsand restrictions to the extent act ual]y inconsistenti but if notinconsistent ther ewith, the standa rds contained in saiit covenantsand restrictions shall be consider ed as requirements in adilitionto saiil Cit y ordinances and r egulations. The City shall be helilharnless in the event any dis putes occur involving covenants andrestrictions
pl I : elf # .o n ifi l##"S.ii., **u.it**Iff H*i* .lE": l.:i i : |i : langle points on boundary 1ines. fron-nonunent placements shall beverified after construclion ot imlr-vement" h."'u..n "orpr.'ilain order to preserve the lot ,";i;;;'ioi"tot"ie ;;d.;tt-;;;;r".
a. The Developer sha1l donate to the City a perpetualten (10) foot rride easemlnt_for a peaeiirian traii '"v=tEr-.-'along the east line of Lot s ana tie-sooln ri.n." of Lots 3 and.4.TraiL construction sharl be limited-to ih" "r.. directly abuttingthe properry lines of, the. plat "r,a oniy-ae"late is-ieerir"d-i"save rEture tlees. The.obligation to iurnish ."a- io"i.rr-trr"surfacins and to naintain. thi system-"tiir u. ;i.i;-rh;; Ji-tt"City. In no case shall the tr.ii-UE ion-"tro"t.a to a widthexceeding six feet .
xr
SECTION
SECTI ON
-g
7
RES ERVED
EN PORCEMENT PROVIS IONS .
p119S.r.rffi t"f ,,*r,*@,rt::.3:#li:":";*::,1;;T-
lis:l:_?t?lnine.anil aaminisiiati;;;;:";.s. incurred by the cityrn connecrion with ar.l. natters relatiirg to the "arini"[.i[Ioi "oaenforcemenr of the girhin. agreeneni ;;e ih. p"ri"*i".J-Iiii"uv uvt!e.Deveroper- Such reimbui""r.ni "tiir'u" nade within fourteen(14) days of the dare of ,"iri"g "r-[r,"-citvG-;";i;;-;r'Ii!i..
-8-
Artlcxl ^E r,'l:*4
5. 10 Trail Svstem.
(612) 474-9541
ArT-r AG-rr hn€xrt*s
SUBJ: Proposod lcccla to rater tovcr off tturray Hill nd.
Bac ktround
'-e Sought oar DroDertv beeauae of tho dencc r.ccds a!1c prlvac;,,.Il1:-l: I 111v ,"':su.'parcel of r.na ,r.ii.,-iuif spcclt,en na:,lutteea end !0i plne trees I i::inE ..Ue erivctay'into cur -rro."ity.
the council DcetlnE of oetc'oer lg, lgal statcal, n 1,h, eppliceitehall rtrslgn ."".ri to trre aortl,' (iiJ-aiiiJ""'irn . ""*.i-tiri-iiri-pr"."rrc as such .r tl. Irlitir.l III;;E,rl,tlon aa poaslb lc. d
Uc trE.ve oglntsinei control ,o trces crrd rcgctatlor serc !-.ot cJtdctn c::ceot 30! th6 resi dentia i- orifa i"g"."E""ii bl11611= s11"ras carefully cerigned to cr.ate au"fr.iio *iial"g sites. ;.crerici,ed as fLr. trce6 aa pogeible tc;in;l;-ii. "p.":,"t chrr:rc_ter of this propcrt]-.
'Jc
_
res.ucsted control of the roari so Eatter.B ruch ae u:is could?::_:::::"-" proi:terl but xe reie i.;;;i-;; si,l ti, rogri andulprovelcn:s tc the clty lrt o.Jr cx.JcnEo.
Sonlag orriirunce t 4Z .".aro" iri-l- gingle fanlly rcci,dentisl .ll8tr1ct.7.0? Pcrsitted ui"c - ,rc bulfdf;3 -;; - ian{ rhcfl tc urcd exccpt'?.e4 i::.t ::ililil:"i:::.'i*i,i;ii; ;;iil.s..
. ' l. p.ttr end recrsatt onai ercsr2. nou ?rof,l,t lcboola). rdr"lnletntion officeal llbrarlcr, publlc eafcty bulldlqs. .' . ::d plo ccs ot erenbly.
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' ' ::: - ,.t;iji. -.,;.rli*;r'.,: Eeildenthl-Commc?cilt
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Developoent alirccoent s+,ates;. rthe doveloper ii,ra 1l aoaatc to thc
c1t)i 3 perpetual reen foot.r1ile eagtrnent far- a . pedeetrian trall
lysteE. Tra:.l, co:rstrueilon shcl,l be lialtcd to lhe rrea dtrectly
abutting '.he pr:per-"y ll::es'o3 thc plat and ouly'Cevlate aa rc-
qui.red to lave luture trees. In no caBe 8hsll'the tral1 bc con-
Etruoted to e rldth ercccillng aix fect.
..,1..r.
'rie have built .i.x hctrea'ln tha $r00rc00 prlce rrrige. Evcry pere
ln the arca object! to th!.a ?ropo33d Bcc.s., cvca tho boeg lcdlil nct bulli. i{c obJect to the propoacd eccer! to thc rrtoq
torrcr froa I'Imay Hlll Boail lor the follor!.rg rGa!on!, : i. ;,,,,l. lion-conforrkg uso for s R-1 zonirg , .. J .. . , ,
2. Prescnt ucccgi 1r ttrough achool piogcrt!1 'd:noa rcllalcitla
area.
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on e dally :asig rhee ltla ao! nccctrary
i. l:lalng rotorlzcd treff1o rlth e psdcatrlen x.y 1! a 3af.ty
hazza::l ncn-conforuing to the ordinaneeti. iire lntent, of ',he dcaclop:lent aEreeEcnt for thc arca llults
the pedestrisn lrath to a1x feet.
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CILEERT H. KREIDBERG
64'4 MURRAY HILL ROAO
EXCELSTOR, MN 5533 t
t6 t zt a'r1-9129
w9Ur. Gary t{arlenCity EnglneerClty of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Hinnesota 55317
Dear Gary,
This letter is
May 4, 1989 regardin
the east ) of the Ya
ollou-up to our conversation of
he Citlesr property in front (
tower off Murray Hl11 Road.
ciIY 8t c!r'iiill[$$iH
EiEEEli,ii?A
MAY 10 i989
EiiEiilIEilITO EEPi.
to
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Nov that the issues concerning the trail systen andthe need for atternative access to the yater tover ( Lake
Lucy Road pipeline ) appear to be resolving themselves,it seems appropriate to revies my intereEt in acguiringthis property. As you knov, the Citles' property dire+ct1y
adjoins my Iot. I am proposing purchaslng the property
from the City of Chanhassen at a nutually agreed upon price
vith soEe very favorable terDs from the Citiest standpoint:
(l) At the time the purchase is consuEated I eouldgift ( deed ) to the City the northern 10 feet( or rhat is needed, rithin reason ) of theproperty to a.Llov continued publlc access fromllurray Hill Road to the UIS School aE [e11 as
ehergency eaEtern acceEs to the rater tover.
l2') f also nould accept that no houae could ever
be built on the property. ft yould sinpl)r bepart of Dy yard.
This transaction vould a1lor the City to neet the
needs of the public, add to lta Treaaury by the purchaaeprice and increase the tax ro1e6 aa I an Eure ny property
taxes vould increase as a reault of the purchaae.
During recent years, the property has been neglected
and needs to be cleaned up. If I acguire the propertyit saves the city the clean up expenae.
The above proposal Deets vith the approval of the
Pleasant Hill lloEleorners association.
If the City Fathers are in agreenent ln principle,I atE sure ve can cone to a Eatisfactory neetlng of the
Uay 9, 1989
,
GILBERT H. KREIDEERE
5.1'4 MURFAY HILL FOAD
EXCELSIOF, MN 5533 t
(612t a?.-9129
Einds on the price. f apprecLate your asslstance, andthe Mayor and city Councils serioul consideration of Eyoffer. If you have any guestions or lf you eould likeDe to be present at a Clty Council neeti;g, €tc.1 pgs3sggive ue a cal1.
I look forsald to hearing the Cities reaponae to nyproposal. Thank you.
Best Regards,
t
CITY OF Ce 7c^-4
?/as/n -
EHINH[SSEI{
SUBJ: Nurray Ei1l nater Torer Site lJandl TlansactionFile No. PW159
After several discussions and a Eeeting rith ltr. Gil Xreidberg, I
believe we have reached an agreenent concerning the sale of theeasterly 210 feet of the Cityrs sater toner site locatect on Lot
31 , Murray HiU Acldition. Please prepale a purchase agreeDentfor the parcel described as follons:
The southerly 90 feet of Lot 31 , Ir{urray Bill Additian, lyingeast of a Iine described as follows:
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX I47 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
HEIIIOR.B}IDT,IT
TO: Roger XDutson. City AttorDey
FROII: cary rlarreDl City ,"rr...r1j;\H'lv
DATE: September 11, 1989
Starting at the southeast corne! of Lot 31, llurray BillAddition, thence irest along the south lot line of Lot 31 ,210.00 feet to the point of beginning, thence north on a linepara1lel to the easterly boundary of sai.d Lot 31.
Purchaser: Gilbert ancl Jillene ttreidberg
5 tl4 4 lrturray Bill RoadExcelsior, uN 5533I
Ihe special teras of the purchase agreenent ehould be ae follors:
l. Purchase price egual to $301000 caab; $311980 if purcbaaedrith contract for deed or other tern arrangement.
2. Sale of the property is rith the uDderstlniling that tbe Cityintends to ancl uiII construct a lO-foot side driveray,/traillccess uithin the City.B 20-foot utility eaeenent rhl,chcurrently abuts the northerly portion of this aubject parcel .This sill ln all likelthood requtre the reuoval oi oae of theDature piae trees.
3. fhe City agrees to construct a controlled acce3a Eate to pro-hibit unauthorized vehicular acce88 but chich can be unloEkedby the City for routine servicing of the water torer site.
4. Purchaser aglees to clean subject parcel of debrig and tobuild a fence conplying. with Eity 6rainances afont [tre -- nesterly and northerly bounita ry 6t ttris parcei.
5. Purchaser will be allored to renove the existing eplit railfence on city property 1ocated east of the ratei a&;;.-
6. The City and purchaser agree to split the plattins costrequired for rhis rransa;tion whiah is il ;aaiii;; Ii-it.purchase price stated above.
7 - Purchaser certifie. that he has reviewear this lot sprit eithl the residents of the pleaaant Eil]. suUaivi sion-ina--n." -
obtained their concurrence with said proposal 0f the city toelininate one tree and construct a coiti-oii;e ;;";;; ---
driveuay,/trai1 for.routine use-by the City tor-mainiai.n ingthe. uurray Hirr rrater tower and ippurtena-ac.s. s"ia-liiir i"to be for the enjotment of the puLiic. _ -
Please add appropriate . legalese to these conditions rnd purchaseagleenent and call me. if you need any clarification"l -f-.ro-o.r_ticularly concerned abour-rens l2-iid-tr-;b";;-iI"io ti*T".!0ight strengthen our posirion toi-constiu.Ei"g-thi"-iriGrli on..the lanil transaction has been conpleted aE this i" ttr.-""i.'justification in ury nind for .nt.i[ii"i"g tti" tr.nii"ci"n.
lty desire is to bave. this conpleted as soon as possible. andplaced on the council agenda tor the o.iot.r-g,-iis;;;.il;g.
Roger Enutson
Septenber 14, 19 89
Page 2
Attach.nent s Map
c: Don Ashrrorth, City llanager
, File No. pt{158B
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September 19, 1989
TEEcoati.:
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Eqorr B. KNETTH
MrcH^a. J. MryEr
}lr. Gary l{arren
Chanhassen City na1l
690 Coulter Drive, Bo:< 147
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
RE !:urray Hill Water Tove r Site TransactionYour FiLe No. Pl{1 59
Very trul.y yours
Dear Gary!
_ Enclosed please find draft purchase Agrreement wlth Gilbertand Jilrene Kreidberg concernlng the above transactlon. pilisecall if you have gueitions or c6mnenti. ..
GR IS,
&KNUTSO
BY:
IS, FARRELL
.4.
r N. Knutson
RNK
o'rrffisffitffirsrr
sEP s0 p89
ttotrffflts otPL
D.vD L GursIs - t87{-f961
D.vD L Gr^N$5, JL - lrlGlgSo
VArr B. Gr^lorE
V.rc B. cr^lorEi Jr..
Plrrrcr ,l- f^tlgr
DAvrD L Gr NNr5, ltl
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Enclosure
II !1,: property ls going to be platted, I suggest thepratting process be conpleted before closlng.
PI'RCEASE IGREEI,IEIM
AGREEMENT Dade thls day of , LgBg, between
THE CIIY OF CIIN{HASSEN, a Uinnesota uunicipal colporation (hereinafter
'City'), and GILBERT trREIDBERG and JfL,LEIE KREIDBERG, husband and wife
(bereinafter,Buyer,) .
RECITAI,S
A. City is the owner of certaln real property in the city of
Chanhassen, Carrrer County, State of l{innesota, (hereinafter ,subject
property'). legalIy described as follous:
The EoutherLy 90 feet of Lot 31, llt RRAY HILIJ ADDITION, lylngeast of a line described as follows: Starting at the south-east corner of Iot 31, UIJRRAy HILL ADDITION, thence uest alongthe south lot line of Lot 31, 210.00 feet to the point ofbeginning, thence north on a llne parallel to the easterly
boundary of said IEt 31.
B. Buyer desires to purchase the subject prop"tti, and City is
willing to sel] the sane to Buyer, subject to the tentrs hereinafFer aet
forlh.
rN CONSIDERATION OF TEE FOREGOING, AND IN CONSIDERATION OF TIIE
}'UTUAI COI/ENANTS HERETN CONTATNED, IT IS HEREBY ACREED AS FOLIOWS:
1. 8al. of Subjcct Prop.aty. City agrees to sell and convey to
Buyer by general warranty deed, and Buyer rgreeB to purchase the subject
property, subject to the following ancuDbrances:
a) Bul1dlng, zonlng, and subdivision ordlnances, and stateand federal regulations i
-b) Resernatione of nl.nerale or ul.neral rlghts to the Stateof uinnesota i
c) Public roads, highvays, utilitles or rights-of-uayi
d) Real estate taxes payable in the year of closing andaubsequent years, together. vith al1 installnents of epeiialassessDents payable thereulth and thereafter, uhethef heretofore
09 119189
or hereafter levied or assessed,paragraph 5 berein;subJect to the provisions of
2. Pa!a!.Dt of Rrrcbar. prl.cc. Buyer shall pay to City as
consideration for the purchase of the subJect property the run of rhirty
Thousand and o0l100 Dollars (S30,OOO.OO), payable aB follows:
a) Three Thousand and OO/LOO Dollars (S3,OOO.OO) earnestnoney in cash, receipt of whlcL is hereby adkn6wteaged by-ai[i,
- b) fsenty-Beven llhousand and Ool1OO Dollars ($27,ooo.oo)in cash, nhich is the balance of the iurchaee !iic6, piyalte 6nthe date of closing.
3. ritle aad lrallaatioa. clty sharr, sithln a reasonabre tiue
after acceptance of this AEreeuent, furnlEh an Abstract of fltle or a
Registered Property Abstract, certlfied to date to include proper
searches covering bankruptcies, Btate and federal judgrents and liens.
Buyer shaLl be alrored trrenty (20) business days after receipt for
exanination of titl.e and naking any obJections, vhich shal] be uade in
wrlting or deemed saived. rf any objectlon is eo nade, clty aha1I be
all'oued 120 day' to Dake tltre uarketable. pendlng correction ot'tlt1e,
pal'nents hereunder required shaIl be poEtponed, but upon correction of
title and nithin ten (10) days after vritten notice to Buyer, the parties
shalr perform this AgreeDent according to its terDs. rf title rs not
corrected uithin 12o daya fron the date of yritten obJection, this
Agreenent shall be nurl and vold, at option of Buyer, neither party 6ha11
be liable for dauages bereunder to the otber, and any uonies paid ahalr
be refunded to Buyer.
a- elorrDE- The crosing of tbis trancactron shal1 take place
on or before NovsDber 1, 1999, at auch location and at ruch tile as Day
be Dutually agreed upon by the parties.
-2-
5. ncal Ertat. fu.B. Buyer agrees to pay a]1 real estate
taxes and speclal assessDents due and payable ln the year 1989 and
thereafter. city nakes no representation concerning the aDount of future
real estate taxes.
6. Coatl,ageacl,u. llhis Agreenent is aubject to the
following:
a) Tbe clty intends to construct a 1o-foot wldedriveway/traII access slthtn the cityra 2o-f,oot wide parcet
uhLch currently abrrts the northerly portion of tbe aubj ectproperty, which will in all likelihood require the reuoval ofone of the nature pine trees.
b) - The City intends to construct a controlled access gateto prohibit unauthorized vehicular access, but which can be
unLocked by the City for routine se:rricing of the uater towersite.
c) Buyer agrees to pronptly cl.ean the subj ect property ofdebris and to build a fence complying rrith City ordinanles along -the westerly and northerly boundary of the Bubj ect property.
d) Buyer uiI1 be allowed to remove the exisiing split rail -fence on City property located east of the sater torer.
e) The City and Buyer agree to split the subdivieLon costrequired for this transaction which is in addition to thepurchase price stated above.
. f) Buyer certifles that they have revlered this 1ot splitrith the residents of the Pleasant Hill subdivlsion and haveobtained their concurrence yitb the Cityrs proposal to eliuinateone tree and construct the controlled access drivevay/trai1 forroutine use by the city for maintaining the lrurray Hj.l1 Hatertower and appurtenances. The trall is to be for the enj o]rnent ofthe publlc.
7. Dafault. If Buyer defaultE Ln any of tbe agreeDents herein,
City nay terninate this Agreenent, and on such teroination all palEents
nade bereunder shall be retained by Buyer as liquidated danages, tlne
being of the essence hereof. This proviaion shall not deprive cither
party of the rlght of enforcing the specific perforaance of this
Agreenent, provided this Agreenent Ls not telainated and actlon to
-3-
enforce speciflc perfornance ls comenced rrithin Bix (6) Dontha after
such riglrt of action arises. rn the event Buyer defaultE in his
perfonnance of the tertus of this Agreeuent, and notice of cancerlation is
aerired upon Buyer pursuant to u.s.A. 5s9.21, the terninatlon period shal.I
be thirty (30) days as permitted by subctlvlsion 4 0f u.s.A. 559.21.
8. Iottcas. Any and all notices requlred by this Agreenent
shall be uade Ln rriting and delivered pereonally or by prepald,
certified nail to the parties as folloe:
As to Sellers: City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, Box 147ChanhaaBen, ttl.nneaota 55317Attentl,on: Don Asbuorth
As to Buyer: Gilbert and ilillene Rreidbero6444 uurray Hill RoadExceleior, lll.nnesota 55331
9. r{ilc.rlaDcour. TbJ.s Agreenent thall be binding upon and
inure to the benefit of the parties hereto and their respective personal
representatives, heirs, Euccessors, and aesigns, and the provisibns of
tbls AgreeDent shall eurrrive the closing.
rN wrrNEss I{HEREoF, the partieE h3reto have Bet thelr bands the
day and year first above rritten.
BY:
AND
GTLBERf KRETDBERG
JILLE-I{E KREIDBERG
CITY OF CIIAI{HASSEN
-
PLEASANT HILL 2NDTHE iIORTH UNE OF LOT I, ELOCK I, PLEASANT HILL.DENOTES I/?-INCH X I4-INCH SET IRON PIPE MARX
ADDITION
sc^t€ .r fE€r
HAS AN ASSUMEO BEARIT{G OF N.89'59.27"8.
ED BY LICENSE NO. 17253.
ORAIflAGE AI{O UTILITY EASETTEITS ARE SIIOUN IBUS:
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CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
MEI{ORANDUM
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 Lrbi w clr,, !,,,i.tnisrrrar
Endarl € 47--
M..
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Paul Krauss, Planning Director
DATE: December 27, L989
R.j.cl
De'-:--l?/? ?-,_
SUBJ: Proposing Zoning Ordinance Pertaining to Maximum l,ot llr]f-for Churches
On November 1, 1989, the Planning Commission reviewed the firstdraft of an ordinance prepared by the City Attorney that isdesigned to limit the maximum size of churches to 15 acres. The
Commission aliscussed the matter extensively, ultimately tablingthe item for further study. A number of issues were raiseil by-the Commission including: .
1. A philosophical question as to whether or not this standardis appropriate.
2. Questions regarding moilifications to conditional use stan-dards pertaining to churches in general .
3. The Corunission guestioned whether or not the intent of thisordinance was t.o linit tax impact or to limit religious
i nstitutions.
Believing that the tax impact issue was a key question, severalof the Planning Commissioners suggested that the ordinance shouldapply to all tax exempt institittions anil not.just churches.
IStaff is in something of a quanilary with this ordinance. As thePlanning Commission is aware, the direction for this ordinance
came from the City Council aone time ago uhile they rere reactingto the Temple of Eck issue. The City Attorney has provided arevised draft of the ordinance that would apply to i1l tax exemptproperty except property owned by the governmental units.
Staff remains unsure as to the actual impact of this ordinance.The City Attorney has intlicatetl that it would be relatively easyfor a church or other non-profit institution to circumvent thisordinance by the ownership of several adjoining Iots. Each wouldbe tax exempt so long as they rrere put to some relateil use. Forexample, a church would be on one lot, with a picnic Arounds on
Daia S!:i:.':: i. . . : .: r
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Planning Commission
December 27, ).989
Page 2
the
all
tax
not
second and a baseball field on a thirtl . As long as they were
used for church related activities you wouJ.d have a 45 acre
exempt site. Consequently, we are unsure as to whether orthis will achieve the goals set by the City Council.
As I noted above, questions were raisecl regariling conditional use
standards as they relate to churches. Commissioner Batzli raised
two questions in particular. The existing CUP standards, Section
20-258, are as follows:
Conditions for churches - Generally
1. The site shall be located on a col,lector or arterial roadway
as identified in the comprehensive plan or located so that
access can be provided without conducting traffic throughresidential concentratsion.
2. The strucEure must be setback fifty (50) feet from all
property 1ines.
3. Parking areas sha1l be setback twenty-five (25) feet from
street.s and thirty feet (30) from nonresidential property.
4. No more than seventy (70) percent of the site is to be
covered with impervious surface and the remainder is to be
suitably landscaped in conformance with Article XXV.
Commissioner Batzli questioned whether or not the "structure" '
must be setback from all property lines pertained to buildings,
retaining wal1s, fences, and other such items that are defined by
the ordinance. Staff believes that this could be corrected by
revising the standaril !o read "a church building and other
accessory buildings must be setback 50 feet from all property
linesn. Batzli also raised the question regarding the 70t ofsite coverage allowed with impervious surfaces. As currentlydrafted, the ordinance applies to the gross acreage of the site
anil does not exclude wetlands or other unbuildable areas. Should
the Planning Commission vrish to revise this, they should directstaff accordingly. with that, staff again offers this ordinance
up for Planning Commission review.
Planning
Novenber
Corrnrission !,!eeting1, 1989 - Page 12
Krauss: At this point in tirne Hr. Chairman, the onl!, wa!, to get additj.onaLbuirding back there is to corre back and ask for addillonlt vaiiances. Theway things are structured right noi, and thatrs certainly nothing that :rouhave to autonratically have to approve.
conrail: r think it's. irnporant and obvlous things change and pranning
conrmisslons and councils change but r think it 6as to 6e a real creainessage that ' at least as r voted in favor of this, lt sas pretty nucbthe assurrption that that back parcer eould not be changed. - tow lou rrra1,sell and thatrs obviously your right and that future d6veloper or whatecourd do irhatever but r just don.t, r would not be of rnind io allow anvincrease traffic on the current one driveway going back but th;;;;; ;;;no wa:t to enforce that posture to m!, knowledge. in:rwa1,, an:, otherconnents ?
rri th
ver
1lv
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND THE CITY
ESTABLISHING THE I.!AX I I.IU}I LOT SIZE FOR CHURCH
CODE WITH REGARD TO
DEVELOPMENT AT 15 ACRES.
Paul Krauss presented the staff report.
Conrad: Itrs a public hearlng. It irasknows that this is an item. i t<ina of
publisbed.
thought herd
Peter Beck obvlousl.!'
be here.
+wildermuth: rt didnrt give any reaction to lt which rrm surprised at.
Conrad: And he is stlll under retainer?
olsen: r showed hirrr the ordinance rrhen Roger first had drafted it nhen ithad 25 acres. when he was still involved with eckankar, rith thedevelogrlent contract and such and that didnrt concern then.
Conrad: So the pubJ.ic noticeor how?
ras sent to peter or uas it sent to Eckankar
Krauss: I think it sas sent to Peter.
Conrad: And se nould send it to him versua the propert!, ownerE?
Ol.sen: It Just ras glven to hlm becatrae he happened to be ln thethe day I received it actualLlr.
Conrad: Are re coRfortable that thatra...
Xrauas: LegaL notlce ls published ln the officlal nerspaper.
conrad: And there is no- other porlcy statlng that s€ indivlduarlythose that are irnpacted by the Ordlnance?
Olsen: werve done lt in the past.
office
ldentl fv
Erhart: Therer s sotre other churches
There's the, what is it?that oun propert!' ln this cit:r.
Krauss: lrhere I s the ctrurch
building thatts up for sale
Olsen: Lakeview.
ProPert!, down bY the aParttrlent
Eflqings: And westside Baptist has that piece out on TH 41.
Erhart: But thatis not dot,n here.
Krauss: But therers no church building on there.
Erhart: No, but they would be impacted by such an ordinance.
Olsen: Westside Baptist alread!' has approval. WeIl we could do that. We
can notiflt then.
Wildermuth: If rre passed this, rrouLd rre have to grant a variance to those
peoPI e?
Krauss: Well it's a natter of conjuctrtre. You donrt have to. If lrou want -
to see the rest of the propert:, develop, :rou nay. Therers different raysof subdividing that ProPert!, uP anil if there was an -internal+ street built
on their propert:, to serve the church and to serve rhatever develoExrentnight be proposed, then the probabilitlz of it is that the site could beless than 15 acres. If the!, want to plat out a large enough piece ofground possibll, for expansion or whatver but to get their site extended out -to the Etreet that exists now, re think it nould be sonething in the orderof about 25-26 acres -
Erhart: PauI, irould this have an1' lmred ia te tax i:rrpact on the Eck
proper t:r?
Krauss: No. According to the inforrrration wetve recelved from the CityAttornelr, it shouLdnrt have any at aII. According to Roger, churches areentitled to a tax exemption for propert!, that thelrrre using for church
PurPoses .
that oHns the
r ight noir.
Erhart: I
l,7tl, isn't know but if uerre defining that now to be 15 acrea inatead ofthat the intent of tbis ordinance?
Krauss: I don't believe that it eouldt have any inpact on that.
Olaen: The intent t aB that another church couldnrt come in and buy anotherIg0 acres and possibl!, got that thole 109 acres tar exenpt. I think re. refindlng that even if they have lgg acres, that that would not all beconetax exemPt an:tiray.
Erhart: But that r s
bought 174 acres.
exactly ehat these guys have done. Theyrve conre in and
Planning Conurri ss i on Meeting
Hovember 1, 1989 - Page 13
PIann i. ng
Noverrber
Conrrission Meeting1, 1989 - Page 14
Olsen: Itrs not deterrrrined that that 124 acres will not be taxed.
Erhart: Okay. So the object of the ordlnance then lE what?
Krauss: Presurnabl:' to put an upper cap on the nragnltude of the church
deve!.opment that you nlght see in the conmunit]r.
Conradt: To restrict the non-tarab1e.
Nrauss: That wourd be the net effect. rf the church alte ras 15 acres,that rould be uhat it sould be taxed on.
Erhart: Okalr, :rouire sa:ring lf sorreone canre in with just a huge church.
wildermuth: Even a amarl church on a very large parcel ...it eays a churchon church propert:r.
Erhart: What portion of the Eck property nor is exempt from tax?
Olsen: I donrt knor that thatis been determlned.
Batzli: Itrs all being taxed right now.
Erhart: Wouldnrt the!, cone in and appl:, for tax erenption for the wholething? .
wildernruth: Not until the!, get a atructure bullt and start holdi.ngservices.
oleen: The:rrre going to tr!, but ltra not sure if theyrll get lt.
Erhart: Then at least this would glve us aone basis to argue for notgiving exernption for nore than 15 acres Bo it ls, shat rerie tryring to do.
Olsen: Carver Count:, the taxes.
Krauss: rtis arso a question of, r dontt think anlthing like thi6 has everbeen tested.
Ehnings ' Wh]' wouldn I tthat be their argumentras passed after their
it be grandfatheredl? Why souldnrt thtbat the:trre grandfathered ln becaueeapproval.
ey, or rouldthis ordlnance
Krauss: welr :reah but.they wouldni t be grandfathered in because theyrrecoming in for subdivlslon presunrably after this ordinance.
Ermi.lgs; I aee. WhenaPPIy? Oka:,.
Krauss: I nlean if yourould be grandfathered
:'ou cane in for Bubdivision is rhen thiE xould
had
ln,
an existing church
yes .
Erharts Are rre still in the public hearing?
slte that was 2O acres, :rou
Plann ing
November
Conutrission Meeting
1, 1989 - Page 15
Wildernruth: Steve, I
grandfathered in.
Ennings: I don't knorr. What the:trre talklng about is when the!, corrle in...
lf i ldernrrrth: Until thel, subdivide.
Conrad: Theyrre granilfathered in. If the!, ever subdivlde. This is stllla public hearlng so any conments clty council members? i.
think :'ourre probab11, right. The], probabl:, Lrill be
Counci.Inan BoI said it atto make. I p
telling chrrrcnoticed dur inexpenses. Thgo on it. Bu
be in the bus
:rt! I do have a connent. Irm against this. Ithe Council meeting, I think this is a bad rroveersonally donrt think the city should be in the
hes hol, big they should be. The tax impact asg the Eckankar situatlon is actually a plus iney have this lanal sitting vacant than to have it the bigger issrre for ne is I don.t believe thiness of linriting the size of churches.
think this is,for bhe Ci t1z
business ofI th lnk ltouterms ofndividual hornes -e City should
Batzli: Can I ask one question Bill? Ho$ does that aquare with your
argument of not allowing churches in the CBD anil taking them off the taxro11 in that case?
Councilman Bo:rt: I think thatra a good question. In the centraL businessdistrict wetre talklng about property that ls deflnitely a revenuegenerator for the city. If you eere talking, I think therers a good zoningreason to sa:, that churches don't belong in the central businees distrlct.fhe land is simply too valueable but I wouLdnrt 6a:, that about theresidential single fanily.
Wlldermuth: The same thing's golng to appll, to that propert!, along TH 5though or along the Boulevard.
Councllnan Boyt: I dontt disagree nith that. Irm also not in favor ofgolng ln andl removlng churches that already in the central buelnessdistrict. I hean theyrre there. I souldn, t encourage more to be there.
Conrad: We stilI are.
Wilderrtruth: ...rigtrt now because rhen the:, do cone in for building theiratructure, for a building permit.
Olsen: Itrs alread:, out.
Krauss: Itrs alread:, issued.
Olsen: Theyrre constructing.
Wildernuth: Thelrive alread:, started?
Olsen: Yes.
Planning Conurti ss i on Meeting
November I, 1989 - Page 16
Wildernruth:
santed to.
Conrad: How did you conclude Bill
Councilman Bo:rt: Well theyt re not
Conrad: So :tou rrake an assumption
houses going in?
that it's saving us mone:r?
Putting an:' tax derrand on the Clt:r.
that there pould be spraller, cheaper
I donrt think thererd be any legal way to do it even if you
counciltnan Bo)rt: r don't know. That,s a good point to think through. Doesit nake a difference. not havlng thern in the zonl at alr versus contiol.lingthe slze and I do think tbe City has the abillt:, and strould use it todeterrnine where businesses shoulit be with the z-onlng ordinance. rrn justnot comfortable with limiting the size. I donit paitlcularly wantChanhassen to be the flrst suburb in the countr:' to do that. Certainl:, thefirst suburb in ltinnesota.
Councllnan Boyt:
my understand lng
thatr s possible.I just base mine
churches how big
Batzli noved,ln favor and
Conrad: Tim,
Wildexrnuth secondeilthe notlon carr led.
itrs
s
Conrad: Don, an:r coFatents on this one?
ooking at iehat
churcbes.at nas that
Eck isit tota 11],ey's officewithin therolls for the
basicaIl.lz.t are all taxerE a lot ofstr iction
to cloae the publlc hearing. AII votedThe public hearlng uas cloied.
xerll atart doern at your end. What do you thlnk about whatrsproposed?
Erhart s
Just that
Attorne!t
I.la:ro r Chmiel : No. I guess I look at it from the aspect of Iwe have in torrn presentl:r such as St. Hubertra- and t-he localNeither of those exceed 15 acres. I think rrhat I ras lookingse not have that nuch acreage available such as the Temple oiIooking at. Them putting in their church and trying to'ttaveexenrpt, tttatrs not going to happen. At least...Countl, Attornbut I think ire should have sone lirnitations as to shal can becomnunit:, as far as taking the total amount of tax off of theproperties. I think that,s somewhat of a concern that I haverhat I see too is we have a lot of things wlthln our cit:, thaexempt. Man:, of the things llke the Arboretum. parks. -Ther
land thatrs...so m:' najor concern is potential of havlng a reon...
This was initlated in Councll? Hor, Iong ago ras that or
_ it came in.conjunction rrlth the public heirlngs for Eck?has, accordi.ng to lrour report here, reviewed lt all?
lB it
Anil the
Olsen: He wrote the ordinance.
If they build houses that are above the City average,that it would probabl:' generate incolre for lhe City soThe tax. argunent ma]r not hold a Iot of rrater. I guesNore on the concern that I donrt rrant to be telllngthey can be.
Plannlng
Novenrber
Comnrission Meeting
I, 1989 - Page 17
Erhart: Yeah but he,s satisfied that thereis precedent? I have a hardtine reading these things. Therers two wa!,s to look at this thing. Onethatrs fron the tax standpoint. The other one is fron a stanalpoint, are wetrying to prevent sorre church organization fron coning ln anil doing a greatbig developrrlent? For rrhat reason rould a chrrrch rrant to u6e nore ihan-lsacres for a church? Worrld it be a conference center then also?
tlildernuth: No.
Ernrlng: Why?
Wi Ldernuth :least one of
on the site.
Because lf they meet the statethe factors for tlte test, the:'
requlrenents for the test, at
have to conduct church services
Erarings: I donrt think so.
Krauss: Presumably a church with an afflliated school could take up thattruch propert]'. A church with sorne other facilit!', be lt a canrp orwhatever. Irve worked on a nunrber of churches ovet the lrears and Irvenever seen one bigger than t5 acres. Including one that relocated out ofHopkins into Hinnetonka, that old Apostolic Lrriheran rrhich had a -congregation of upwards to 1,109. The:, were on a considerabl:r snaller sitethan that.
Conraal: Werre really restricting a canpus t]rpe of environnent. Thequestion is, do :rou want to extract that or do :7ou want to...
Erhart: Therers trro questions I think. Itrs an offsetting question. I -think what werre tr-lring to do is strengthen our tax position wlth thisordinance. The offset, nhat does it do if someone comes in and sa:'s I wantto build a chrrrch campus, a legitlnate cburch campus. I guess n!, reactionis, thel, cone along anil we can always review the ordinance at that.tirre soI grress if rrerre strengthening our position with regard to taxes, I have noproblen with the ordj.nance and it seems to me that if 15 acrcs makes sense, _give them grhat we have here toda:r. Lastl]r, I guess we probably ought to goout and give this to the existing church owners in the Cit:, that have norethan 15 acres. I know theyr re going to te1l us, they.re all going ,to tell
]/ou, even the church I go to, thelrrre going to sa!, we donrt want an:treatrictions we donrt need but ee ought to probabll, do that but I guess I.dsupport the ordinance. This issue is a big one.
Conrad: Steve, )routve got to have some interesting opinions.
EErings: I donrt have any opinions. I agree with the general notion that
ee donrt want a lot of land off the tax rolls for churches and I think werrant to allow people to build their churches and 15 acres seems like a lotto me. I Probabl!, would have picked a smaller nuhber but I just noniler ifIetis sa:i that you have aome clever church person come in and they bu:, a 45 -acre parcel and the:' subdlvlde lt into 3 15 acre lots and they put their
church on one. The:r put their chrrrch achool on the next one and the:7 put achutch camp on the next one. Arenrt they now aLl exernpt? AIl three ofthen.
Pl ann i ng
Novembe r
Conurrission Meetlng
1, 1989 - Page 18
Olsen: Chrrrch purposes.
Krauss: Church purposes and one of the questions...
Er&ings: Now wait a mlnute. r donrt get the exenption just because rrm achurch. r get lt because rrm for a whole bunch of reasons. There are arhore bunch of non-profit organizatlons that get tax exemption for thevariotrs reasons. r think that it wouldn, t be too hard to get around this.Nohr I donrt know if that,s...b:, Roger. This only deals siEh churches. Itdoesn't deal uith the other actlvities of religious organizations and rthink I could put together 45 acres like r saii and r 6on,t think you -ould
tax me. I donrt know. Ma:rbe I.m wrong or maybe if we thought abo-ut itmore, }re courd think- of a better_example that eould do what Im suggestingcouLd be done but like. Tirrr, IInr ln favor of attenpting to lirrit thii. |'donrt think this does it and I rish ma:rbe :rou,d git s6rte comnrents fronrRoger on that before it gets to City Council. Iim going to vote for ithoping that it wirr do sorrrething bul r don,t see hoi it nlll rrork.
Erhart: rf r could coturent. r think in your sr.anpre there, it seemed tounderstanil that rre have an ordinance that aa!'s tha! two pieces of propert!,that are under the sane owner, tno. contiguou! pieces of -propertl, uiraei ttr3same ownershlp is treated as.one pircel in the clty whicir l-don; t agreetith that but that'is the ordinancl. r donrt agree wittr it but that is theordinance. It malr apply there. I
Ensnings: Brrt r guess the pbint is, if r have a 15 acre rimit on oneactivit], and it rqay be that r have a 15 acre liFrit on my church a4d havealr n]' other activities on a 30 acre parcel next door aid since it isn,tspeclflcally a church,,na:ibe m}, non-piofit charitable status will get nretax exemption on the 30 acre parcel.
wildernuth:, werr yeah it will. under the state subdivision...exemptpropert:r, all acadarrlies, coJ.leges, unlversltles...
Errmings: So it seems verli eas]7 to get around to me. It does not seemeffective to ne but Rogeris probably thought thi3 through and sould knowbetter than I for sure but that.a the onllr conrrent l.ve got. Oh, Irve gotone Other coFu{ent. Sorrlr. Irm not conceined about what BllIrB cOncernEdabout. About telling churches how big they can be because r thlnk numbeione, itis hard to irnig ine a church ,.itir,g more than 15 acres. lvlth zgtcoverager that means a church thatts r0 acres. Thatrs a bic church.That's almost a cub or a Ereet Farm ao r.n not concerned ab5ut it and ifthis t ould work, you stil.l wourdn't be limltlng thelr elze. yourd aa!,, butyourre only golng to get exenrptlon on 15 acres and the reat are going-lohave to pal' taxes on. That doesnrt bother ne at all.
Batzrl: r donit like this ordinance. r donrt llke lt before or after theahendnent. The:'rve deleted_one portion of the ordlnance which appearedl todeterrrrlne whether thls Eection applied to churches both slthin a-nd outsideof the HUSA line and -I- would clarlf:, that by addlng eornethlng to the startof this such as the forrowing appries to ali churcies since fhe nextaection appries to those churches outside the t{usA rine. r donit think
Planning
Noverrber
Comrrission Meetingl, 1989 - Page 19
residential concentration is defined anlmhere. The structure nust be setback 5g feet. WeIl. nhat structure are we talking about? Are rre talkingabout the church which is a defined definition or t,hat are rre talking about
when we sa:, structure? Are we talking about developed or undeveloped non-residential property? Are rre talking about net or gross maxinum lot size?ff rerre going to change the ordinance, I.d like to see us change the eholeortlinance and make it a working ordi.nance. I don't think this is lt. Idonrt even like the principle of tlmiting the rna x irrrurn lot slze of churches.
So Irm going to vote against it.
Wildermuth: I donrt see that this ordinance realllr...so basically I.rn infavor of it although I thlnk Brianrs conanents and the ordinance itseLf arever!, worth while. It aeerqs like there should be more... Betterdefinitions to put some teeth into lt.
Conrad: I donrt have too much of a concern with the ordinance. The things -that I think it tould restrict are the campus uses. I guess Irnl not realinterested in encouraging, I donrt aee a net benefit for those campus uses.
The trade off is being rnore acreage closer to torn possibl!, or for
develoEnent and for taxes. I do have a question though. Do ee want thisto be a blanket, across the board restriction by aII zoning districts orare there exceptions?
Wildertnuth: That's a good point.
+
Conrad: Srrpposed agriculture. Is there a case to be hade out in tbeagricultural district to put a church out there or sould u€ h€v€Er well redid allow a church outside the HUSA line.
Batzlis On TH 41 there?
Conrad: On {1.
Erharts Even there itis less desireable to have bigger churches. You just
donit have the serv ices .
Conrad: So is that a case rrhere it rould never happen? I can make a real
good case for the Eckankar propertlr. It realllt is taking out 6ome landthat I think should be used for other things in the long run and I thinkit'6 real unfortunate that, ltra going to force us to develop other landsearlier than the!' should. Therefore, I think it'a reallli unfortunate thatthatia happening ],et if therera an agricultural area that a church rants to
move out on, Irm not aure that I care.
Batzll: I don't thlnk that owningthe church ls big either. I think
may gant to build on 2gA acrea and
lanilscaped and developeal and has aisolated.
Erhart: Yeah, but thatrs zonedl .
a lot of ProPert!' necessarilli neans thatthatrs a mlstaken assurlptlon. A church
onl.y have a 5 acre spot thatrs reall!,
church on it. The:, malr rant to be
PIann i.ng
Novelrlbe r
Consrrission ueetingl, 1989 - Page 2g
Conrad: Itts stil1 not taxable but the agricultural taxes aresignificantly lower.
Wildernuth: They can still otn the property...
Conrad: Yeah, if the:' subdivided it. I donrt knon.
Councilman Bo!'t: The question Ird like to ask, ln listening to lrourdiscussion about wh:r you support thi6, it seems as though it.s tax relatedso why isnrt the ordinance airned at all tax exenpt organizations? Wh1' are
we signaling out churches?
Euuings: wait norr. Didnrt the impulse for this thing come fron the CitlzCouncil? Ma:/be ]'ou could fill us in?
Council,Flan Bo:rt: No I canr t.
Eru,rings: I canrt either. Uyr initial reaction to this was that this $asretaliator!' because members of the City Council who, it had that appearanceat least that it iras retaliatory in sone wa]rs because people on CityCouncil were opposed to that church for whatever reason. Thls came outinrrediatell, thereafter and just the tirning of it nrade lt look that ua!' andI didn't like it for that reason but nevertheless it fits sith nl!, owninstincts that tell me that that churches shouLdn, t orrn big piec-s of 1andthat are tax exempt. So I agree with you to some extent. lhat $ould bebetter to have it broader.
Erhart: The difference I think though is that the other exempt pqrcels,
arboretums, universities, parks are public owned lanit shere tbis is private
owned ProPert:,. I think thatrs the difference. Thatrs why you touldntt
aPPl:, lhi; to those.
Errmings: But are there other privately ormed tax erempt?
Batz1i: Camp Tanadoona.
Ermings : The carrrpf i re gi r1s .
Conrad: The:rrre not tax exemPt are they?
Enurrings: Oh !,eah.
Batzli: Theyrre non-profit.
Eruhings: Sure. The:t're tax exempt. It|e!, couldnrt eurvive there. Theycan't survive as it is.
Erhart: The other question I had is rh:, are ne rriting this Sectlon 2 thatsa!r6 this ordinance shall be effective inrretliately upon itts passage andpubllcation but shall not appl!, to churches rhich have applied for buildingperrnit or which have received Cit!' Council approval before ltrs effectivedate? Wh1, does that have to be in there at aII?
Planning
Novenlber
Comnrission Ueeting1, 1989 - Page 2I
orsen: To grandfather in existing uses. To grandfather in the Eckankar.
Erhart: wh:, do we t ant to do that?ordinance? The probability of havingacfes.
Krauss: An:r tine lrou aalopt an ordinance that has a standard differentsornething thatrs in the ground, 1t's automaticarryr grandfathered in.
If we have to do that,another church coning
whw
in have thewith 200
than
OI sen :
now-
yeah, so I'n just saying why do se have to make it...
tle probabl!, don't because they alread!' have their building pernit
Eimlings. Are we really talking aborrt churches or are rreabout ha:rbe privatel), owned tax exempt activities?rea111z talking
Batzli: r'd
cburches.
feel much better about it if it was that rather than just
You feel rrerre treating churches unfairll'? Signaling then out?
Yeah.
If )rourre reall], doing it for the tax base, I woulddmake it
Conrad:
Eruuings '
BatzL i :
broader.
Enuuings: That rrould be consistent.
Wildernuttr: Cover all the tax exempt organizations.
Erhart: Privatell, otmed tax exempt uses.
Erhart: The wa:' to look at it Ladd, lf itrs outside the t{usA rine the}r're
Probabl:, not pa!,ing that nuch tax for farmland anllPalr. llith green acresitrs prettl, reasonabl,e. Then at that point rtren tha-t land gets in the
IIIUSA line and that area gets developed and the tax rate goe; up, then infact we want this kind of ord j.nance to aort of automaticirry tiie effect,rbich it will.
wiLdermuth: r guess r uould be In favor of giving this back to Roger andbavlng hirn look at extending this...irnpact on property. we're tarllngabdut...rather than just single fanrlly churchei. - -
conrad: what kind of funpact on Rogerra tirne rould that be, and 6taff tlne?
Krauss: I donrt think itrs terribly significant.
Eckankar, becarrse of
donr t have the aalrle
rea111' care evenI think mlt concern
develotrment.
Erhar t :
Conrad: Ir11 go back to nr]r opinion. I feel that theit's proxinritl, to dorrntolrn Chan is a real problem. Iproblen if it was located 2 triles west. Then I don.tthough Irm putting na1,be off a problem to the future.is inappropriate use close to $here reire encouraging
Planning Corunission Meeting
Novenber 1, 1989 - Page 22
Conrad: This is not a real
a major review and cost.
high priority for me right now but if itrs not
Olsen: we can do that.
conrad: And !,ourd rant to just look to private ownershiP but ehat l,ould
you be telling them to do? To revieir it? To draft and ordinance that
would encourage all of that and then if that sent to City CounciL and the:'eeren't happy, the:, could keep the part that they ranted couldnrt they?
Erhart: Additionall:r, just to find out lf there.s some problem we donrtperceive at this point $ith expandllng this to privately orrned non taxpa:rin9 organizations. Ma]rbe therers something werre not thlnking about.
Batzli: The mol'e I think about it, I just dontt like the idea at aII. I
mean I donrt know that if Canp Tanailoona wasnr t there and j.t cane in
tomorrow, I rrouldnrt be in favor of then settj.ng up a canp on the lake.
Erhart: How nan:r acres do thelr have?
Conrad: It hrrst be over 15.
Bmings: Oh yeah.
Erhart: I bet ltis more like 80.
Emllngs: Oh yeah, Ird say so.
Erhart: Cahp Tanadoona. How nan!, acres do th
Olsen: Iid sa!' alnost I0g.
ev orrn norr?
Eruqings: Thatrs a big parcel. It goes all the sa:r out to TH 5.
Olsen: Itrs just like Zimmermanrs propertlr almost.
Batzli: so I guess m], earlier statement that I
churches and I donrt know that that reall]' doesnon-profit.
rm not in favor of linitingit for me. erivatell, held
Etfiings: or nalrbe ne should ask Rogerthat if the:'rre limited on one parcel,
and have 1t on contiguous parcels.
too if there is anything to the ideaif they couldn't sinpl], subdlvide
Kraus6: We can get that clarified.
Conrad: I think for sure Stevera comnent 18, I think werve got to researchthat. I think Brian brought up Eome yording anil things that I thlnk wenight as we1). improve it or at least send it along to Cit], Council sith alittle bit improved wording if re go with elther a positive or negativerecommendation. I guess the other guestion ls to research the other partsthat we've been talking about. Irn not sure lf that sill. by including
Planning
Noverrber
Commiss j. on Meeting
I, 1989 - Page 23
more...coverage that ma], take tqy votebut I donrt know.
away from a positive vote on this one
Euqings: It's-tough becarrse uhat Brian sa:rs ls right. What ifCampfire organization cattre in and said we iant to lut in a canphere and a conference center thatrs going to be tai exempt. Ibe all for it. I reall:, do.
the
for kidsthink werd
lrou ever define
Wildernuth: But not on a 6lte like l?5 acres.
Couads You souldnrt put it cloae to dountown.
EMuings: you souldn.t rant lt close to downtosn but how dothat?
Conrad:
EFarings:are a lot
I don't know. I
Eckankar, wou I reof hard ones. I
You know that old
donrt know hoi, to
right. Eckankarthink we should
Batzli:
Conrad: Is there a motion?
OPEN DISCUSSION AND CITY COUNCIL UPDATE:
Erhart: Whatrs Cenvesco going
legal maxlm. Hard facta don.t make good larr.
do that.
is a sirnple example and theretable lt.
athe Zoning ord inanceIot size for church
Ci t!, Attorney. AIl
to approve the18r 1989 as
Wilderrnuth nroved. Elrarings seconded to table action onlftendment to anend the City Code establishing maxinumdevelopnent to 15 acres and referring the itern to thevoted in favor and the motion carried.
APPROVAL OF HINUTBS: Batzli moved, Wilderrrruth secondedl{inrrtes of the planning Corruqission neeting dated Octoberpresentetl . AIt voted in favor and the notj.on carrled.
Krauss: tferre waiting for thernras pulled at their request.
to do? l[hat. a thelr
to come back wlth a
next move?
revleed plan. The itern
Conrad: Pulled for shat reason?
Nrauss: Cenvesco pulled lt. If you read througt! the staff report, seralsed a nuqber of Lssues regarding the accuracy of the plan and variouscriteria_. Apparentl:, 9l thg advlct of peter Beck who,s -been retained bythe developer, they pulled for approxlmately 30 days. we asked for and-received a letter Btating that this delay ll at th;ir regueat.
Erhart: This peter Beck 13 the Attorney for Eck or lg he Eck?
Thomas J- Campbell
Roger N. Knutson
Thomas lvl. Scott
Garl G. Fuchs
James R Walst,xr
Elliott B- Krrrrh
Dennis J. Uoger
CAMPBELL, KNUTSON, SCOTT & FUCHS, P.A.
Attomeys at Law
November 22, 1989
(612) 456-9539
Facsimile (612) 456-9542
Mr. PauI Krauss
Chanhassen City Ha11
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, !{innesota
147
55317
RE: Maximum Lot Sizes
Dear Paul:
Enclosed is the revised maximum 1ot size ordinance you
requested. As we discussed, the ordinance does not prevent a tax
exempt organization from orrning an unlimited amount of land. Achurch could, for example, own ten (10) contiguous 15 (fifteen)
acre lots. The only effect the ordinance would have is that if
one or more of the lots is left idle and not used for a'churchpurpose, then that lot woufd not be exempt from the payment ofreal property taxes. Church property is only tax exempt if it is
ogrned by a church and used for church purposes. How much extratax revenue will be generated as a result of this ordinance is an
unknown.
There are certain obvious problems with applying the
ordinance to aII tax exempt uses. A church is a specific use anda judgment can be made about how much land is needed for the use.
Tax exempt uses, however, can be anything from a church to a girlscout camp to a publishing house. fifteen (15) acres may not be areasonable limitation on the size of all such uses. There is noreported case law in Minnesota on this issue. If you want ne tothoroughly research the subject in other jurisdictions, pleaselet me know.
Ver 1 y yours,
CAI{PBELL UTSON, SCOTT
&s, P. A.
B er N. Knutson
RNK: sTN
Enc losure
CITY OF CHATTHASSE'{
Yankee Square Office lll . Suite 202 . 3460 \?ashington Drive . Eagan, MN 5llgA/ Zi 1989
CTTY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
AII ORDIXANCE TUEIDING SEAPjIER 20 OB T8E CEANEAASETI
CITY CODE, TEE ZONTXG ORDIIIrCE, CONCERUING L:I aIZEA
THE CITY COI,'NCI L OF ,IHE CITY OF CHANHASSEN ORDAINS:
SectioD 1.Section 2O-1 of the Chanhassen City Code isanended by adding the follorring definition:
ItcoverDreDtal Utitrr means the Federal government or anyinstrumentality thereof, the State of lilinnesota or anyinstrunentality thereof, a County, city, Tosn, SchooLDistrict and any other political subdivision.
Soctior 2.section i6-gzo to The Chanhassen City Code is amended by adding
read:
2O-92O. I,lariuurl Irot 8ize.
The maximum 1ot size for all uses of property exemptfron the paynent of real property taxes, except pr^operty
owned by a governmental unit. is 15 (fifteen) acres.
Sectl.op 3. This ordinance shall be effective i--ediately
upon lEE-!-assage and publication, but shall not apply to uses forwhich approval has been given by the City prior to the effectivedate of this ordinance.
PASSED AND ADOPTED by the Chanhassen city Council this _day of , 1989.
Don Ashworth, Clerk/Itanager Donald J. Chniel, I{-yor
(Published in the Chanhasaen Villager on 1989 . )
oRDINANCE NO. _
r-)
EHINHISSEN
CITY OF
6c
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
II{E!{ORANDUIt{
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: PauI Krauss, Director of
DATE: October 3, 1989
SUBJ: Proposal Revision to the
ltaximum Size of a Church
D I SCUSS ION
Planning
Zoning Ordinance to Establish the
Site at 15 Acres
During the review of the Tempte of Eck, the City Council con-
sidered estabtishing a maximum size on churches that woulil be
allowed by conditional use perrnit in the City. The primary
reasons for requesting the ordinance are to limit the physical
and financial impacts of large scale church developmenta Loss of
property tax revenues iras discusseil. A memo from the City Attorny
outlining a recent court case is attached. The courtrs ruling
indicates that churches may only qualify for tax exempt statuF on
that portion of their property that is acturally being useil for
church purposes. Thus the fear that large tracts of church ownedproperty would be removeil from the tax rol1s may be unfoundeil.
The City Council cliscussed a 25 acre site size limitation but
ultimately settleil on a 15 acre cap.
I have worketl on a number of church sites over the years,
including one that had a capacity of 900 members and the site area
was below the proposed 15 acre cap. I believe it is therefore
reasonable to assume that the orilinance irill not impede most
"normal" church development.
The impact of the orclinance on the Eckankar site was discussed
with the city Attorney. The church owns approximately 175 acres
but the church building and related development occupy only a
small portion of the property. The orilinance is structureal so
that it will not apply to the existing development. However, if
antl when they request a subdivision of the property to further
develop it, the size of the church site would be limited to 15
acres. This could pose a problem. The Temple is a very large
facility that could exceed the 15 acre standard. A lot drawn to
encompass the facility could range up to 26 acres in size if it is
to have frontage on Powers Boulevard. The smallest possible site
Planning Commi ss ion
October 3, 1989
Page 2
is approximately 13 acres and would Leave a private driveway asthe sole access. Whether or not a Lot area variance will berequired will probably be determined by the internal street layoutof any proposed development on the balance of the site.
A copy of the proposed ordinance was sent to Peter Beck, theattorney who represented the church during the approval process.
He did not voice any concerns regarding it.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommends that the Planning Commission approve the ordi-
nance amend.ment .
D^vtD L. GR^NNrs - 1874-1961
D^vrD L. GMNNts, JR- - 1910-1980
L^w OFrrcrs
GnaNHts, Gx.aNurs, Fanr.rrr & KNUTSoN
ProFEsstoNAL Assoo^noN
P6r OEncE Box ,7
40J NorvEsr B^NK Bu[-DrNc
151 NorTH CrNcorD EXCH?INGE
Sor.rrH ST. PAUr. MrNNEsor ,r07,
TETEPHoM (612) 4rr-1661
July 25, 1989
TE!EcoPrEi,:
l6L2\ 455-2119
ElUorI B. KNETSCH
MrcH^EL J. M,iYER
VAN(E B. Gi^NNrs
VANCE B. GR h'Nls. Jr.t
PATnrCK A. F^raEL!
D^vrD L. G[ NNls, Ill
RocEr N. KNrrrsoN
DAvrD l. HAxr,rYEi
PuoL. lN WEd.srr
Ius . Jo Ann Ol sen
Chanhassen City HaII
690 CouLter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
Dear Jo Ann:
147
5531 7
the revised ordinance which reduces the maximumfeet to 15 feet. If you have any questions,
a
Ve ry truly yours,
S, FARRELL
BY:
Ro Knut son
Enc losed1ot size fromplease cal1.
Ls
25
RNK: STn
Enclosure
cc: Don Ashhrorth
.. _-. -. ._D
JUL 3ti 1.,089
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
RE: Churches
CTTY OF CIIANIIAS S EN
CARYER AND HENNEPIN COI'NTIES, IITINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO.
IN ORDTII}NCE I}IEIIDTNG CEAP,IIER 20 OF TEE CEINEASSENcrrY coDE, rEE ZONITIG ORDINTNCE, @NCERNTIIG SEURCEAa
The City Council of the Clty of Chanhassen ordains:
Sectio! 1.section 20-258 of the chanhassen City Code isamended to iead:
8ac. 20-25a. Churcbss--ceDerally.
(1) The site shall be located on a collector or arterialroadway as identified in the conprehensive plan orlocated so that access can be provided without conductingtraffic through residential concentration.
(2) The structure must be set back fifty (50) feet fron aIIproperty lines.
(3) Parking areas 6ha11 be set back twenty-five (25) feetfrom streets and nonresidential property and tttj.rty (30)feet from residential property.
(4) No Dore than seventy (70) percent of the site is to becovered with inpervious surface and the remainder is tobe suitably Landscaped in conformance with article Xl<v.
(5) The roaxiuum lot size is fifteen (15) acres.
Sectiotr 2. This ordi nance shall be effective innediatel vupon ].ts passage and publication, but shall not apply to churcheswhichhave applied for a building pemit or which have receivedcityCouncil approval before its e ffective date.
PASSED AND ADOPrED by the Chanhassen Cit y Council thisday of 1989.
ATTEST:
Don Ashworth,Clerk/Manager Donald J.Cbniel , Irlayor
1989. )(Published ln the Chanhassen Villager on
D^vD L. GMriNrs - 1874-1961
D^vrD L Gi^NN6, JR. - l9l0-1980
vANcE B. GR NNTS- V^NCE B. Gr^NNrs. JR..
P^rucx A. F^rrE[
D^vrD L. Gi^NN6. III
Rocrr N. KNursoN
DAVD L. HA$iEY[i
Ms. Jo Ann Olsen
Chanhassen City Ha11
590 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
RNK: sTn
Enc Iosure
Law Orrrcx
Gnaxr.rrs, GnaNurs, Fanngr & KNUTSoN
Prof EssloNAt Assoct^TtoN
PosI O.acE Box t7
403 NorvEsr B^NK Eurr.DrNG
16l NorrH CoNcorD ExcH^NGr
SogrH Sr. P;uL M|NNFJoT^ ,r07,
TET4HoNE (612) 4rt-1651
July 27, 1989
TEr.EcoatEr:
(6r2t 451-2359
Eluorr B. KNErscH
MIGHAE! J. MAyEr
't 47
5531 7
RE: Tax Exempt State of Churches
Dear Jo Ann:
Enclosed is a recent decision on the abovedecision states that to be tax exempt propertychurch, (2) must be used for church purposes.
natter. The(1) be owned by a
Very truly yours,
G IS,
&UTSON
BY:
t N. Knutson
S, FARRELL
A.
..;-.:.'JUD
JUL J 1 1989
-,,.-, -.-. CIIL oE cMN]lASSEt -;
Pr cr'cr lN wr.osN
ras duly
'JDated:Ap!i1 4, 1989
Coples attached
Jea'l Shively
lssistant CaPer County Attorney
garuer County Assessor's Office
Calner County Auditor's Office
Clerlir s Nolrlcc of P1l1!rg.
Entry or Doc keL inil
te
x FlLed
x Entered
Docketed in the .araount of
,ai.+i''. il^
-t -r :r--
ln Be: Special Force l,linistries vs. County of carver Fl1e No. 8B-239o2
For the above entltled uatter, you are Dotlfled that On ADril 4,l qnq
Flndin gs
0rd er
x Jud gnent
0ther
::'- . (
APR 0 4 t9a9
t,
_,1. tr..,, F, ,ia-:: ,
)
Joyce A. VanEyLlCourt Adnlnlstr tor
By:I
1l Deputy
Court Admlnlstrat 1onCarver County Cout thous..
600 Eest 4th StreetChaska, ttN I 553J,4
Dlrect D1a]1ng (612)
ltq8-1201 c1v1l DlvlcJon
4,lg-f 202'Tr:rf llc Dtvlslr
448-1203 Vlral Sr:erlsttc
PauI n. Slouer
Attcrney at l,aw
il18 Norrest Midland Bldg.
aol, Second Ave. South
Enneapolis, MN 55401
STIr,'I'ti (tt' t'l I iiiil':i:Oi',i
..JUNTI OF Cirlivlili
-4,i.:
'_ -. -- - G'-;. -r-.-.- * ,.---.*d
v. Hennepin county, 305 Minn. 1, 5,235 N.w.2d 754. 757 lt973l ,
establiahed a six fact,or test to be applied in determining whether
property qualifies as an institution of purely public charity. We
iri11 discuss che extenE. to Uhich the subject property sat,isfies these
six requi rernenEs .
1. Whether the stated purpose of the underCakingis to be helpful to others uithout imnediateexpecEation of material rerraral.
the subJect property is oerned by a non-profit corporation. The
articles of incorporation indicate that. iC was incorporateit for
charitable purposes. Thomas St. Angelo $as the incorporater,
presiilenE and a director. Ihe other board nenbers, one or nore of
trhon are enployees, are close associates of ltr. SE. Angelo. Board
neetings are hot conducted on a regular basis. Both lhe Reverend
SE. Angelo anil his erife receive a salary for services perforned for
the corporation. While we are confortable with the st,aleit purpose of
che corporation, we are uncomfortable rrith the financiaL arrangenents
and shether the expectaEion of material reward in the forn of sal.ary
and free 1iving quarters is a rnotsivating factor. 'pet,itioner horever
does satisfy Ehis requi rement.
2. Whether the entity involved i3 supported bydonations and gifts in shole or in grart.
The petitioner in this case saEisfies this requiremene in thar
donaEions were received fron trro of t.he three residenEsr from Rev.
SE. Angelo, and from the Assemblies of God Church. The Assernblies of
cod Church has classified SpeciaJ. Force Uinistries ( including the
subject home) as a home nission and encouraged contributions Uy (ts
nenberS Eo home missions. contributions of $G0,055 sere received from
-9-
o o
&enbers of Che Assemblies of God Church. Ho$rever, Ehe
disclose hou nuch, if any, uas allocated to the subject
record does not
facilit.y.
3. whether
required Eo
rrhole or in
rest,ricted or urhether the c1a
nade avai LablerelaEionship to
the
PAYpart
recipients of the charity arefor the assistance received in
tricted and if resEricted,f persons to whom the charity isne having a reasonablecharilable objectives.
fhe recorat is clear in this insEance in that all tshree of the
recipients pay for tbe services provided. The paynent for the
aervices equals the standard fee established by the state of
llinnesotsa. In the case of tt,o of the residents, an additional palment
is made, allegeilly in the f,orn of a contribution. Ihe pet,ilioner
fails to satisfy t,his Eequirenent.
4. whether Ehe incone received fron gifts and
donations and charges to users produces a profit tothe charitable institution.
This is an inportant factor. Eoreve!, insufficient evldence uas
introiluced in order to nake a dleternination as to rhetsher a profit was
produced f,ron the subject facility. the petsiEioner has not proved
that iE saE,isfies tbis test.
5. tfhether the beneficiaries of the charity are
nresssois o
the
. The evidence indicates thaE adnission to ehe bone is restricted to
Dentally handicapped persons. It is open to all nenrally handicapped
persons, regardless of race, color or creedl. llhat constitutes
nentally handicapped persons his not been defined. tfe are satiefied,
honever, that tnentally handicapped persons consE,itute a class of
persons for uhotn charity is appropriate, and lhat the t,hree qinilividual.s residing in the hone are sufficientsly handicapped io as to
constiture an obJect of chariEy.
-10-
CC
6. Whethe r
asseEs upon
inEerests.
o
dividends in form or substance ordissolution are available to privaEe, ;
lhe record is clear Ehat upon d-issotution, the assets of peti_
tioner are transferable to anoCher non-profit organiza|_ion. The
record is also clear Ehat the special Force Ministrj.es has noE
declared any dividends for the benefit of any private individual.
Eowever, we do have concern over $hether the assets of the corporation
are being disEributed to Reverenit sE,. Angelo andt his sife (and one or
nore of the directors who are employees) in the forn of salaries
and/or living expenses. If that is not now occurring, certainly the
poEenE.ial is there since Reverenil sE. Angelo is the f,ouniler, president
ind director, whose salary and benefits are set by a board oE
directors consisting of close associates, one or more of l,hoh are
enployees.
The MinnesoEa Supreme Court, in the North Star case , 1P!1,
indi.cat.ed thaE it is not. essenti.al that every factor be gresents before
an insE.itut.ion quaJ.i f ies for exemption.This was repeated in the case
of Mayo FoundaEion v.Comnissioner of Revenue,305 l,tinn. 25, 236
fhe general language of our definiEional
statemenEs and the identification of factors in ourprior cases are only guides for analysis. Eachcase must be decided on its own garticular facts,and iE is not essential that every factor menlionedin our decisions be present before an inslitucionqualifies for exempEion.
305 Hi.nn. at 35.
Being a non-prof i t
property E.axes. !,tinn.
corporation does not,
State Bar AssociaEion
guaranEee exenpEion f rom
,tv. Conmiss ione r 307
Minn.389,240 N.w.2d 321 (1976); Camping and Education FoundaEion v.
-1 1-
. N.w.2d 767 (L9751 :
U
oC
State, 282 lrinn. 245, 164 N.rd.2d 369 (1969). naving a norrhwhile
objeccive d.oes noE of itself Justi.fy classifying an instit,ution as a
purely public charity. Share-v.Conmissioner of Revenue ,363 N.Sr.47,
50 (l{inn. 1985)- Nor does the fact that the petitioner has been
granted an exemption from state and federal income tax have any
signifi.cant bearing on.its exemption fron property taxes. rhe only
requirer0ent that need be neE to obtain
qualify as a non-profit corporation.
incone tax exenption is to
Eouever, this does noE establish
that the corporation is an institution of purely public charity.
tlhile this case bears sone resenblance to the case of Assenbly
Eome s Inc. ,supra, the fiscal facts rere fully presented in the
Assembly [lomes case , but not here. In addition, ownership in the
Assenbly Eomes case rras b road based, compared irith Special Eorce
llinistries erhere tshe directors and officers consist of the founder and
close associates- we find there i,s greater sinilarity to lhe
philosopby expressed by the llinnesota suprene court in the case of
Share v. Commissioner of R eve nue , .S.E r in vhich a health nainlenance
organization nhich grovided heal.th care on a non-profi! basis to a
cross-section of the comraunity but received the bulk of its supporE
fron fees, provided no services to individuals rho rrould otherrise
turn to the governnent for such aidt and provided no services sithout
charge, uas not a purely public charity entitLed to exenption.
As .the Suprene CourE noted in the Share case, the services
provided uere very cornmendable. Likesiser proviiting a religious hone
to nentally handicapped persons is very cornnendable.Eot eve r ,each of
tbe three residents pay for t,heir care.Since they pay in full'ior
the roon and bobrd they receive, one Dight quesEion shaE charity is
-12-
C
provided Eo Ehem. And, if they are not the recipients of the charity,
who is?
Peeitioner arso alleges dtiscrirnination on the basis thaE anoEher
faciliE.y for the handicapped in the county has been granEed
exemption- ?he facts regarding that facility, !,tount oliveE Rolling
Acres, rrere nots introduced since the exenption of thaE facility nas
not in issue. IiIe are therefore unable to det.ernine the extent o!
sirnilarity, if any.
Based upon the record as a rrhole, we find that the petitioner has
failed to prove thac Ehe subject property is used as an institution of
purely public chariEy.
A.C.R.
-13-
I
CITY OF
EII[NHfiSSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 Act'ci tv i'j ''r:''':::':'
EtcL:se- 4 tG-2t
(l-i:r::-_--
the
code
SUBJ:Second Draft of Proposed Amendments to Division 6, site
Plan Revielr of the Zoning Ordinance
On December 6, 1989, the Planning Commission first reviewed
draft of the Site Plan Revie!', ordlinance. The ordinance as
drafted represents a significant departure from the existing
in that it does the following:
I Establishes a purpose section to clarify the intent of the
site plan review procedure. '
2. Establishes standards for evaluating site plans including
architectural review.
3 creates a 1egaI notice and public hearing requirement for
site plan reviews.
Provides procedures for ailministrative approvals for minor
alterations to plans.
4
5. Creates a requirement for financial guarantees for
landscaping and related improvements.
The Cornmission reviewed the document and raised a number of
issues. Among these incluile the following:
1. Low profile HVAC units shoulcl be required to have screeningif topography or site tlesign makes them visible from off-site.
2. The Comnission supported the public hearing requilement but
indicated that a 500 foot notice should be standardized uponwith larger notice required on lakes where sites are visible
over great distances.
3 Staff was asketl to clarif
authorized by the Plannin
review procedure.
hat sort of alterations night beirector in the administrative
ye
9D
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FRoM: Paul Krauss, Planning Director
DATE: December 27, 1989
Rljiits'i
-
.a::, t2/3d/!L
08te Subnitt:d tc Corrission
t/s/9a
Drle l :illir,d to Council
Architectural standards shouLd be revised to make it clear
that metal roofs and canopies to be alloweil. Non-
agricultural metal buildings are prohibited in the ordinance.
4
5. Staff was asked to clarify exactly when moving a building
into the city would require a site plan review.
6. lliscellaneous minor revisions
ordinance.
to various sections of the
staff has reviewecl the minutes anil hopefully has maale the changes
which were requested. Revisions have been underlined for
clarity. Based upon our discussions at the last meeting, the
concept of revising the ordinances to allow the Planning
Commission to recommend approval of site plans will be dropped.
In addition, the requirement to place signs on sites undergoing
site plan review will be conveyed to the City Council. I believethat if such a reguirement is to be established, it may not
belong solely in the site plan review section, but rather shoulilpertain to all zoning matters reguiring public hearings. A
recommendation to consider this wilI be made through the City
Counci I .
At the December 6th meeting, staff discusseil problems thit oftenarise when developers attempt to alter site and building plans
after they have been approved but prior to issuance of buildingpermits. This iliscussion was used to clarify when ailministratsive
approvals of site and building plan alterations would anil wouldnot be considered. It is interesting to note that an incidentrecently occurred that clarified this point. The developers of
Country Hospitality Suites Eotel informed staff that they are
requesting building design changes in order to retluce construc-tion costs. These included changes to the roofline, deletion of
cedar shake shingles replacing them with asphalt shingles, dele-tion of entrance canopies and removal of approximately 12 feet
from the length of the building. I believed that these changes
were more significant than staff had the authority to authorize
and further believed that these requests were inconsistent rriththe intent of the approval . Therefore, I refused to authorize
them and put the request before the City Council on Monday,
December 18th. The staff memo to the Council regarding this itemis attached to this report. The City Council acteil on therequest and was quite supportive of staffrs position. They
agreed to authorize the revised roofline and deletion of shakeshingles but required that the balance of the building beconstructed as per the approved plan. Any other changesrequ ested by the developer woulil need to be taken back beforethe Planning Commission for review.
Planninq Commiss ion
December 27, 1989
Page 2
Planning Commission
December 27, 1989
Page 3
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommenals that the Planning Commission approve the draftfor review and adoption by the City Council.
ATTACHMENTS
Memo from Paul Krauss regarding Country Hospitality Suites
HoteI .Site plan of hotel .
Proposed ortlinance.
Planning Commission mj-nutes dated December 6, 1989.
1
2
3
4
\
CITY OF /2{
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5531 7
EH[NH[SEEN
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-573ddit'1 bv ciu Ai''.r:riih',
er"*J-v.gilois:a--- ----k.kd:L-- -.-lll-JA:J-l-JZ
& $imitei to c.fl'-i,ss i
UEMORANDUM
TO: Don Ashvrorth, City Manager
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Country Hospit
presented staf
which have beepresenteil to sroofline of th
the City Council &eetlng.
Paul Krauss, Planning Oirector Q?
December 14, 1989
Dte So\Fiir.a 1' Lclri;:
t7-k-f 2
Proposed Architectural Changes to the Country HospitalitySuites Hotel
On Thursday, December 14, 1989, staff net with Dave Heruninger ofD.w. Eutt Consultants who is working on final plans for the
a1iftcndtafeb
ty Suites Hotel in Chanhassen. Mr. Heumingerith a package of architectural urodifications
esigned to cut the costs of construction. Asf, these modifications include changes to theuilding to go rrith a full-hip roof system ratherthan the mansuered roof that haal been originally proposed, achange from ceilar shake shingles to asphalt shingles, removal ofthe entrance canopies at the front of the building, and a ,decrease in size of the building by some 12 foot in length.Staff indicateal that we had serious reservations with these pro-posals and believe that the changes were of a magnitude that theCity Council should be asked to authorize them piior to theissuance 9f any building permits. Toald Gerhardl, representingthe HRA, indicated that that group also *ould be intlresteil inreassessing the curent pIan. Consequently, I have scheduleil atime for Mr. Hemminger to make a short prelentation to the CityCouncil of these changes. Due to the short notice provided by-the developer, plans cannot be matle available for r-eview until
Some of these changes are ninor or through modifications can bedesignetl to have milinaI impact on the buildlag's appearance.The loss of square footage results from a diminished-size of theroom around the pool building anil really does not have a signifi-cant impact on the external appearance of the buildling so 15ng aslandscaping anil exterior site plans are changed accorEingly.Likewise, staff has worked with the applicant to hopefuliy designa revised roof section that, while differeDt in appearanca, isreasonably attractive and consistent eith other buildings in theCentral Business District. Eowever, the loss of shake ihingles,detailing of architecturat trim on the roof and of the entrincecanopies, in ury opinion represents a significant diminishment ofthe alchitectural quality of the building.
llr . Don Ashirolth
Decenber 14, 1989
Page 2
I have a fundament.al problem with th
requested by the applicant. It is m
shoulil feel an obligation to constru
sented and approvetl by the City and
signif icant architectural changes wh
rocess that is beingpinion that the developer
epyo
ct
sho
ich
the building that wa
uld not conclude tha
result in diminishe
expenditures are going t
believes that the curren
cceptable. If the City Councitectural package is acceptab
obeat arch
s pre-t
dt
i1le or
:"can be modifiedl to be acceptable, staff should be directetl
authorize the building permits accorilingly. Shoultl a dete
mination be made that the plans have been significantly al
it rroulal be my recommendation that the plans be returned t
Pl.anning Commission for re-approval . Tocld Gerhardt has in
me that the HRA would be reviewing these plans at their re
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ORDINANCE NO.
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, Ir{INNESOTA
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 20 OF THE
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE
The City Council of the City of Chanhassen Ordains S
ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEIT,IENT.
DIVISION 6. SITE AND BI}#+NG PLAN REVIEW.
Section 20-106. Purpose. ft is the intent of this sectionto serve the public interest by promoting a high standard of
development within the city. Through a comprehensive revien of
both functional and aesthetic aspects of nerd or intensifiecl
developmentr the city seeks to accomplish the following:
a) implement the comprehensive plani
b) maintain and improve the city's tax base;
c) mitigate to the extent feasible adverse impacts of one
land use upon another; +
cl) promote the orderly and safe flow of vehicular andpedestrian traffic; anil
e) preserve and enhance the natural and built environment.
Section 20-107. Approval. Required. without first obtainingsite and building plan approval it shal1 be unlawful to do any ofthe following:
a) construct a building;
b) move a building to any lot hrithin the city;
c) expand or change the use of a building or parcel of landor modify a buildingr accessory structure or site or landfeature in any manner which results in a different inten-sity of use, including the requirement for additional
pa!kin9.
Section 20-108. Exceptions. Notwithstanding the provisions
Section 20-!07 , the followin 9 sha1l not require site or buildingplan approval:
a) construction or alteration of a single or two familyresidential building or accessory builttingfor residential use;
on a 1ot zoned
follows:
ARTICLE II
b) enlargement of a building by less than l0 percent of itsgross floor area, provided that there is no varianceinvolved and also provided that the director of planning
has conducted an administrative review pursuant to
Section 20-113 of this sectioni
c)
d)
changes in the leasable space of a multi-tenant building
where the change does not intensify the use or lequireatlditional parking i
construction of buildings for agricultural uses on land
zoned and utilized for agricultural purposes.
e) moving a residence or accessory building to any lot zoned
AI A2 RR or RSF rovided that the Iot and structuretnq comp yw th all appl lca b1e zonrnq ord lnance s tan-
darils.
Section 20-109. AppJ.ication. Application for a site plan
review shall be made to the city planner on forms provided by thecity and sha1l be filed four (4) weeks in advance of the planning
cornmission meeting at which it is to be considereil. Itlcgmpleteor deficient a lications sha1l not be scheduled for a meetinunless the Plannin Director has determined that o rcla l actionis warranted.The appl lCa t 10 n shall also include:
a)
b)
c)
Evidence of ownership or an interest in the propertyi
The application fee; and
Complete site p1ans, signed by a registeredcivil engineer, landscape architect or otherfessional , to include the following:
architect,
design pro-
d ) General:
3
1. Name of Project.
2 Name, address,engineer, and
and
owner
telephone number of appl icant,of record.
4
5
Legal description
required ) .
(certificate of survey wiIl be
Date proposed, north arrow, engineering scale,
number of sheets, name of drawer.
Vicinity map showing relationship of the proposeil
development to surrounding streets, rights-of-rray, easements and natural features.
6. Description of intentled use of the site,buildings, and structures including Cype of occu-pancy and estimated occupancy 1oad.
7. Existing zoning and lanil use.
-2-
( i)(ii)(iii)
( iv)(v)(vi)(vii)
8. Tabulation box inilicating:
Size of parcel in acres or square feet.
Gross floor area of each building.
Percent of site covered by building.
Percent of site covered by impervious surface.
Percent of site covered by parking area.
Projected number of employees.
Number of seats if intended use is a
restaurant or place of assembly.
Number of parking spaces required.
Number of parking spaces provided including
hand i capped .
Height of all buildings anal structures and
number of stories.
Landscaping plan in accordance with the provisions
of Article XXV.
Location, access and screening detail of trash
enclosures.
Location and screening detail of roof top eguipment.
(viii)
( ix)
( x)
e) Site and Buildinq Plan:
Property Iine dimensions, Iocation of all
existing and proposed structures with distance
from boundaries, distance between structures,building dimensions, and floor elevations.
2. Grading and drainage plan showing existing natural
features (topography, iretlands, vegetation, etc.)
as welI as propose grade elevations and sedimen-tation anal storm wa!er retention ponds.
3. A11 existing and proposecl points of egrJss,/ingress
showing hridths at property Iines, turning radii
abutting rights-of-way with indicated center 1ine,wiilth, paving width, existing and proposeil mediancuts, and intersections of streets anil driveways.
Vehicular circulation system showing location and
dimension for aIl driveways, parking spaces,
parking Iot aisles, service roads, loading areas,fire lanes, emergency access (if necessary), public
and private streets, alleys, sidewalks, bikepaths,direction of traffic flow, antl traffic-control
devices.
I
4
5
6
?.
8.
9.
10.
Location and detail of signage.
Lighting location, style anil mounting.
Building elevations from all directions indicating
materials and colors.
r equ i reil .
-3-
Interior floor plans may be
12. List of proposeil hazardous materials, use and storage.
13. Proposed fire protection system.
14. Such other information as may be requiretl by the city.
Section 20-110. Standards. In evaluatingplan, the planning commission and city councilcompliance with the following:
a site and building
sha11 consider its
a) consistency with the elements and objectives of
development guides, including the comprehensiveofficial road mapping, and other plans that may
the city'splan,
be adopted;
s truc-
the
b) consistency with this orilinance;
c)preservation of the site in its natural state to theextent practicable by minimizing tree and soil removal anddesigning grade changes to be in keeping with the general
appearance of neighboring developed or developing areas;
tl) creation of a harmonious relationship of builclings and
open spaces with natural site features and with existing
and future builclings have a visual relationship to the
development;
e)creat.ion of a functionaltures anal site features,following:
and harmonious design forwith special attention to
I an internal sense of order for the buildings and useson the site and provision of a desirable environmentfor occupants, visitors and general community;
the amount and location of open space and landscaping;
materials, textures, colors and details of construc-tion as an expression of the design concept and theconpatibility of the same rrith the adjacent and neigh-boring structures and uses; and
vehicular and pedestrian circulation, including walk-ways, interior drives and parking in terms of locationand number of access points to the public streets,$ridth of interior drives and access points, general,interior circulation, separation of pedestrian andvehicular traffic and arrangement and amount of
park i ng .
2
3
4
f) protection of adjacent and neighboring
reasonable provision fo! surface watersight buffers, preservation of views,
Pil
1i
roperties throughrainage, sound andght and air and
-4-
11. Utility plan identifying size and direction ofexisting water ancl sewer lines, fire hyalrants,
distance of hydrant to proposed building.
those aspects of ilesign not adequately covered by other
regulations which may have substantial effects on neigh-
boring land uses.
Section 20-111. Public Hearing. Upon receipt of a completealapplication, a date shall be set for review of the site plan before
the planning commission. The review will be held no less than 10
days after mailed notice is sent to the orrners of properties
locatetl wholly or partially within 500 feet of the site,
reflected in the records of the Carver County Auditor.
as
The
may be
not
director of olanninq mav require an expanded mailinq list for
=ft" EEfglli4g on lakeshore where the development would be visible
over a larger area. Following the hearing or any continuance
thereof i{hich ia not appealed by the applicant, the planning com-
mission shal1 make a recommendation. The site plan sha11 be for-
wariled to the city council with the planning commission's
recommendation for review on the next available agentla. Final
approval of thecity council.
site plan requires a simple majority vote of the
Section 20-LL2. Multiple Applications. Any site and
building plan application which is accompanied by a request for a
conditional use permit or for a rezoning amendment to this orili-
nance sha1l be consiilered by the pJ.anning commission concurrently
with the conditional use permit or rezoning application.
Section 20-113. Administrative Approvals. Minor site pLan
and buildinq alterat ions
which are not accompanieil
s ideration
approved by
authori zed
not involve a variance and
mat,ters requiring con-
which do
by other
by the planning commission
the director of planning.
or city council,
The director is
to approve the principal construction of new bui ldinqs
or alterations to exis EI;q buildin gs that would adti tore than 10t
the existin f-any eFFEcEEToi-TE pro-
r of planning sha1I render a
to
ce
qross floor area. I
ratively, the directossed ad mln].s t
decision within 30
upon the applicantof the ilirector of
days and sha1l serve a copy of the decision
by mail. Any person aggrieved by a decision
planning may appeal the decision to the
planning commission in the manner specified in Section 20-I09 of
this ordinance.
Seclion 20-114. Conditions. The planning comnission, city
council or director of planning may impose conditions in granEing
approval to site and builtling pLans to promote the intent of this
ortlinance and to protect adjacent properties.
Section 20-115. Specific Project. Site and building plansshall be valid only for the project for which approval isgranted. construction of a1I site elements shall be in compliancewith the plans and specifications approved by the planning com-
mission, city council or ilirector of planning.
Section 20-116. Architectural Standards.
a) It is not the intent of the city to reserict design freedom
unduly when reviewing project architecture in connection with
-5-
1) elevations of all sides of the building;
3) a typical f J,oor plan;
4) dimensions of all structuresi and
5) the location of trash containers and of heating,
ventilation and air conditioning eguipurent.
b) The use of unadorned, prestressed concrete panels and
concrete block sha1l not be permitted. Acceptable materialswill incorporate textured surfaces, exposed aggregate and orother patterning. The use of metal on building exteriorsshall be limited to trim detailing and,/or to buildings using
c) All rooftop or ground mounted mechanical eguipment apdexterior trash storage areas shal1 be encloseal with materials
compatible r.rith the principal structure. Low profile, self-
contained mechanical units which blend in $rith the buildingarchitecture ry !g exempt from the screening requirement.'
d) Underground utilities sha11 be provided for all new andsubstantially renovated structures. On sites where, throughdesign on topography, rooftop mechanical systems are highlyvisible from off-site locations, structural screening wiIl berequired.
Section 20-LL7. Maintenance of Site and Landscaping. Theowner, tenant, and their respective agents shall be held jointly
and severally responsible to maintain their propelty andlandscaping in a conilition presenting a healthy, neat and orderlyappearance and free from refuse and debris. Plants and ground
cover which are reguired by an approved site or landscape plan
antl nhich have died shall be replaced rrithin three months ofnotification by the city. However, the time for conpliance maybe extendeil up to nine months by the director of planning inorder to a11ow for seasonal or rreather conditions.
Section 20-118. Retaining walls. Retaining walls exceedingfive feet in height, including stage walls which cumulatively
exceed five feet in height, must be constructed in accordancewith plans prepared by a registered engineer or landscape architect.
Section 20-119. Landscaping Financial cuarantee Required.
when screening, landscaping or other similar improvements to
-6-
a site and building plan. However, it is in the best
interest of the city to promote high standards of architec-
tural design ancl compatibility with surrounding structures
and neighborhoods. Architectural plans sha1l be prepared by
an architect or other qualified person acceptable to the
director of planning and shall show the following:
2l type and color of exterior building materials;
metal and glass curtain wa1Is. Architectural netal roof
( standing ieam and similar) systEfrE and canopiEs mav also be
a 1l owed .
property are required by this ortlinance, a performance bond shall
be supplied by the ovrner in an amount equal to at least 120t
value of such screening, landscaping, or other improvements. Thesecurity must be satisfatory to the city and sha1l be conalitioned
upon reimbursement of all expenses incurred by the city for engi-neering, lega1 or other fees in connection nith making or
completing such improvements. The guarantee shall be providedprior to the issuance of any building permit and shall be validfor a period of time equal to one full growing season after the
clate of installation of the lantlscaping. The city may accept aletter of credit, cash escrow or bond. In the event constructionof the project is not compJ.eted within the time prescribed by
building permits and other approvals, the city may, at its
option, conplete the work required at the expense of the owner
and the surety.
The city may allow an extended period of time for completion
of all landscaping if the delay is due to conditions which are
reasonably beyoncl the conErol of the developer. Extensions which
may not exceed nine months, may be granted due to seasonal or
weat.her conditions. When an extension is granted, the city sha11
require such additional security as it deems appropriate.
Section 20-120. I{aintenance of the Site. It sh be the
obl iqation of the ownerwith the appr
to maint ain Etre site- in-E tEiiEr- -cons i stent
ErTE?atf6frs
o-vea--El te and-SuTliTn q plan.U napproved
are in violation of t hfs ordinance.
all
Section 20-12L. Issuance Building Permit and Certifdcate of
occupancy. A building permit may be issued if the proposed
construction conforms to the approval granted by the citycouncil. A certificate of occupancy may be withheld if const(uc-tion is not consistent with the terms of plan aPproval and will
not be issued until the terms of plan aPproval are met. Minor
changes to the approved site plan may be made after review andl
approval by the city planner. Major changes shaLl require the
submission of another site plan review application.
-7-
Planning
Decerrlber
Comlrission ueeting6, 1989 - Page 3
d Cross accessline between
each lot.
easenrent over
Lots I and 2.
the southern 50 feet of the coFaron
The easenrent sha1l be 20 feet wide
Iot
on
2. The final plat Ehoutd show Outlot A as Lot 2, Block I.
3 The Lot l park dedication fee should be paid
purchase agreehent at the tine of aale. Theacquire park dedication fees on Lot 2 at suchfor deve).oplrent.
as orrtlined in the HRArsCity reserves the right totinre as it is proposed
4 The owner of Lot I, Block 1 agree not
rezoning of the entire site to the BH
to contest thedistrict.City sponsored
All voted in favor and the hotion car:ried.
PUBLIC HEAR ING T
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDI,IENT TO AMEND THE CITY CODE, DIVISJON 6, SJTE
REVIEW TO REVISE THE PROCEDURE, EXPAND ON DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS AND
EINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR LANDSCAPING AND OTHER SITE II,IPROVEMENTS.
Paul Krauss presented thehearing to oraler.
staff report. Chairnan Conrad called the public
PLAN
REOUIRE
Erlnrings nroved, El1son secondedfavor and the nrotion carried.
Erhart: I don't
discussion.
to clo6e the prrbllc hearing. A11 voted in
The publlc hearing was closed.
really have anltthing right now Lattd. lla:rbe after sone
Errnings: Irve just got a couple things. On page 6 on iten C at the top.Where it say's, in the second sentence, low profile, self containednrechanicar units which brend in with the brrirding, architecture are exenptfrorr the screeni.ng requirenent. r t onder if we should add onto that, th;trlnless topograph]r rrlakes then vlsible to other properties or sorrrething likethat 60 that we have an out there to require screening in sorrre oddcircunrstance. I think the general idea is fine.
Xrauss: Should ee sa:, then may be erenpt instead of are?
Ettu'rings: Yeah. Or ma:, be exernpt. Thatrs right. That would be fine. Irdagree with that change rather than the language r had. Thatrs even broaderand r rike it better because lt gives thern tha idea that we nright acceptsomething other than the screening rhich I thlnk ls fine but t[ doeen.inrake it arrtonratic. rf they brry a row profile unit because there nlght beone thatrs obnoxious. Alright. The other thing is, I.nr just glad thatHoirard h,asn't here to hear you say plain concrete block. -
Conrad: Yeah, Horrard would not go along with that.
Planning
Decenbe r
Conrrission Ueeting
5, 1989 - Page 4
hunings: Howard thought a concrete block was a thing of bearrty. An]rthingthat uas rnade out of concrete or anything. llasonr!, was...
Frauss: To their credit thorrgh, the rrrasonry indrrstry has been verycreative with concrete block. I nean the:, hake burnished block and exposeilaggregate and different ihprints on it. Sorre of the strrf f looks llke -
brick. Sorrre of the stuff looks llke granite and I donrt have a probleh atall with any of tbose deviations.
Enutrings: Irn just kidding. This doesn't deserve all thls. I just rrantedto renenber Howard. The public hearlng aspect of lt, I have always beenconcerned, this is a pet issrre of rrine I guess na:rbe brrt when youire goingto give notice to o$rners of property, lt seems to ne that we hive thi; 35Sand Fra]rbe a 500 foot standard in sonre cases and the idea is to give noticeto People wbo t'right be affected blr the project. In m], experience, becarrseI live on a lake, I'nr affecteat b], thlngs that happen further away than 350or 5gg feet and j.n fact I've rrsed thls exanrple and I,n sure everlrbody,stired of it but when Red Cedar Cove was bui1t, all those townhouses, I livedirectly across fron that and look right at it and never knew it was goingin there until it went up. So I know that under the, I think under the CUpor at least under sotlre other section we have language in there that sa:rsthat if the parcel is on the lake, that propert], oirners or tbe owners ofLakeshore properties are also notified and I think thatts a real good thingto do on a lake. But that again, like I sa:r, thatrs sonething ltd like to
add but I donrt know rhat other people think of that. .
Krauss: Jo Ann rras jrrst telling Fre we do that as policlr. Itrs not in theordinance. One thing we'd like to do though.
Erfiings: What's that?
Olsen: I donrt kno$ that thatrs written.
EtFrings: No, itrs in the ordinance.
Olsen: Just for CUPis? Because we do it for everybody.
Erarings: I know that itrs ln there for, I thlnk itis in there
and haybe not for zoning ordinance anendments or itrs the otherbut thatrs sorqethlng I've alwa:'s had on nll' onn llttLe sork listto make all of those consistent and right now the:,rre not.
for CUPis
r,ay arouncl
i 6 rre ought
Nrauss: I would standardize that, I wouldl change that 350 to 500 sincethatrs Hhat we've used elseirhere. One of the things that a lot of
corrmunities do that we havenr t done, and I.rrr a little relunctant to propose1t because itrs sort of an adnrin8trative problem, but itis sometines usefulls to require the posting of 6igns. If you go lnto ttinnetonka or
Bloonington or Edina, yorrrll oftentihes pass by aigns that sa!, proposed
subdivision this Bite. CalI Cit!' HalL. Now in Edina I think they rhake the
developer put then up. Therer s a standard fornat the], use. In l{innetonkaue used to have the Citlr print these tbings up and it ras our eigns and our
crews put thenr up. That requlrement gets oerner8, for exarrple if youtrelike our fitst itenr tonight that was pulled, you.re just dividing two lots.
Having to bult a sign to put up on :iorrr propertlr. If itrs a citl' sign, itrsno big deal. Itrs included ln Your application fee but it's surprising hoe, -han:, people see those things and wiII call in on it. If the ultinrate goalls to notif:, as rranli people as possible, :rou Fright rrant to make that ai aproposal. Itrs sortrething that I assume would reqrrire sot're funding sourcebecause it's not an insignlficant expense to make those signs up but thatis an option.
Conrad: Donrt we have,to put up a sign becarrse
had it going.
is there any
neIve ta1ked
s i trra ti on where we
about this before
hate a requi r eFrent
and I thought we
was everI donrt see it
Olsen: We used toenforced. It usedin there an:rFrore.
have that in there and whether or not itto be in there. Irnr looking right now.
Conrad: Itrs alnost we shorrld have a sign up, if the zoning changes, ifthere's a srrbdivislon going in, if thereis airl,thing that th6 public. rf weh3v9 a public hearing, there shorrld be a sign-going up. Itrs the best rra:r,rithout a dorrbt itrs the best wa]' to inforrr ttre puUfi- of whatrs going on-.'r think werve tarked about the cost before and sorre peopre bear a-burien,heavier burden rrhen it's a simpte rittle dear but gelez,- rrd srrre like us tothink, na]'be we rent signs to these people. Haybe the City takes theburden on to begin with and then chargei a sign-fee to palr for the signrentaL for the nronth preceeding the hearing. I
olsen: Then we'11 have consistent signs too.
Ellson: Yeah, itrd be thesee that sign.
Krauss: That'scall the Ci ty.
sanre looking anil lrourd start driving and yrourd
lrrportant that !'ou standardize on the sign forFrat. It sa:rs
Conrad: I srtre would tike to do that. In fact I thought we were.
carr:t that on uPrhat that thlght
Krauss! If :tourd like to nake that as a proposal, rreto the Citlt Council and get some information for thenrcost wittt sone different optlons.
can
on
Conrail:lhat onethat get
Ellson:
Letrs do that. We corfient, pe never knew that uas happening.sign will take care of all the problerrlr or 3 bulk of tle pr5blen,sthrough. People donrt read the newspapers. They sinply donrt.
Or their hail.
Krauss: The nraill frankly, the mall ln Carver Count:r is tough. Hennepincount:r_ has a computerized address file as does Dakota county and gone 6fthe others where lrou tell thenr, wourve got this lot andt you need a 500 footlist and !'ou get a comprrter generated nap rrith a clrcle ltound it and themailing labeLs and everything else. Our planning secretary has had no enilof trouble trying to get fornral 1ists ftoFr Carvei Countlr. -They wlll notcertif:, a l ist.
Planning Conrrrrission Meeting
DeceFrber 5, 1989 - Page 5
Planning
Decetllber
Colrr\ i ss i on ueet i ng6, 1989 - Page 6
Errnrings: Donrt you get it from the Abstract conpanlr?
Krauss: The Abstract conrpan:/ wonrt certlf:, it anal the], rontt do it in atinrely &atter apparentl:r. Therera only on- Ab6tract conrpan:r.
Olsen: Itrs ver:r expensive.
Krauss: So what werve been dolng, the best tbat se can do is have people
cone through our plat files and pick orrt the lots and go look rrp theaddresses and nake up a nailing list but that is not shat.s specified andthatrs basically all rre,re able to do because of Carver Countyts position.
OLsen: We hake thern go throrrgh the Abstract co!'pan:7.
Krauss: Yeah, for the bigger plats.
Olsen: Even snall ones t'eive alrra:rs nrake thenr. We tr!r.
Enurrings: For rrrlr lot I hail to do that.
Conrad: Steve, I interrupted. Anlrthing else?
Enmings: No.
Ellson: I think I renerrber talking aborrt the naterial and s'ira t have you
and I !t\ a little concerned about saying the use of any t\etal. Itrs Likeyou said, a lot of tirrres j.t I s done very tastef ull,:,. I know alu'rinum sidingis considered netal and therets residential all over the place ehdre :roucanrt really telI it looks alurrinum. I grress I'rr a little concerned aboutusing jrrst the brazed netal because thatis tike saying aII plastlcs arealike. A1 1 nretal looks the sane. Under the ordlnance on the first pageyourre talking about exceptions. Constructionor or alteratlon of a slngleor tiro farnily residential brrilding or accessor:, bnllding on a residentiallot. Does that nean a garage rouldnrt have to cone?
Olsen: A site plan?
EIlson: Yeah.
(There uas a tape change drlring Jo Ann Olsen.s anseer.)
Nrauss: Ile would guarantee that we will schedule or try to achedule it.
Ellson: The other thing is r,hen werrethis nrean that nerll guarantee that we
talking about the { weeks. Doeswill see this sithin 4 weeks?
or
aay
the
Ellson: I was thinking malzbe we Bhould 6a!r, not less than I weeks
something to that effect. Ird hate to feel that the!, cmre in and
m]' 4 rreeks is here and the!, never provided you ulth tso-thirds ofthlngs intialllz required and things like that.
okay,
Planning
DeceFrber
Corrmission Meeting6' 1989 - Page 7
Krauss: Therer s always that option. If we deternrine that itrs not a
conPlete application or we need additional inforpration, ne just pull it.
Ellson: I donrt know that rre have to give then a guarantee if weire notread:r. If werve got peopLe sick. If we've got things going on. We wantto do a thorough job :ret this { weeks is a reqrrirement. I hate the factthat rre're putting it in writing that xerll guarantee 4 weeks when there'sall. sorts of things that could happen. I aLso noticeal , well I thlnk lrenentioned that. On page .ll it f,as 359 feet and I thought lt was 599 that wedid. Generall!, I guess I donit have a good feel for what, weire talkingabout rra:/be that Roman thing. We would have the authorit:, to grant thatsite pl.an or sonrething like that. Ha]rbe we could take a look at tbehistory. How often is there a difference betrreen rrhat rre say and what theCity Council says and nraybe that would be sonre rationale to supportsoFrething like these t:rpes of issues and then go back to the past and say,here uas one. Here rdas one and the!, went through rrithout a hitch as anexanPle. But if there iras you know a good 50t or sorrething that we hail toadd to or take awa]/ or disagreedl or sonrething like that, then Ird probabllt
would think that that extra bod:' of approval sould be eorth it. I alsoagree that anlt kind of notification or increase of it or front pageadvertisernent requirenents. Sohetines I really think that corrrrunication isin nry feelings, alFrost always the solution. people always feel it bappensrrithorrt tbenr knowing it and they think that the], were ripped off and Lhel,donrt feel it's fair and even though itrs ln the Villager and things likethat hapPen, the], still don't feel that so I think the sign ldea'isfabrrlous and I think that any other kinds of things to nake sure thatpeople are notlfied I think rrorrld be wonderfrrl . I don't think re coulal do
enough probably. Thatis rrhat I have.
Etrlnlngs3 Ladd, could I just go back and corrnrent on sonrething she broughtuP that I forgot to conDrent on and that is whether or not :'ou should goonto the Cit!, Council. I think that the:, shorrld. The reason I think so is -that I think it's good, particularll' on i large developarent, that thedeveloper get a feel fronr as rran:, people in a position to later approve hisproject as soon as possible. If rre miss one, if werre really out of syncon one of then' rrith the Cit:, Councll, and the person winds up withl I,nrsure herd rather know that early on rather than later. I have a feelingthat these should go onto to the City Council.
Batzli: Wou1d you get theaggtieved or within 10 da1'sreview it?
Krauss: It rrould
have the right ofit' e done .
same result if it ras either the lot owner feltafter our decision the City Council uanted to
be ny lntent that if we proposedl that, that the!, uouldappeal to the Cit!, Council. Thatrs typlcally the ua:,
Batzll: And I agree
eanted to review it,it would be
could.
tha t
the:,
elther or. If the Clty Councll
Errnrings: Hor, erouLd the:, know until they reviewed lt?
Pl ann i ng
DecePrber
Conrrri ss i on Mee ting5, 1989 - Page 8
Batzli: I donrt knoi, but lt
and of course yorr know that
agenda so. Hl, turn?
uould be kind of like a consent agenila deal
Chanhassen'E consent agenila is never a consent
Conrad: Yeah.
Batzli: I Like Sections 196 and l1g. I have sone problanrs with sone ofthe other ones. Part of it is just language. I think you rrrisrrse the sordsectlon and division in varlous places throughout the proposed changesPauI. Eor lnstance in 20-L08 as Just one exanple. Notirlthstanding theprovisions of this section. That should probabl:r read division or itshourd read sectio^ 29-!97. one of the trro. euestion on residential rot.
We have a definition of lot but not necessarily a residential 1ot. I don,tknow how picky we really eant to get about our ordinances but it,s probablya lot thatrs in a zoned residentlal zoned area or sonrething like th,t.Tberers no such thing as reall]r a residential Lot. Therets a lot which is aneets and bounils parcel tttatrs recorded but nry questlon is jrrst, I guess n),bigger question is, where did this cone from? Sorne of this-itrs crtar car',Efronr our ordj.nance alreadlt. Is this copled froFr another cit:r? Dial I hissthat? Did you tell us where you got this fron? Is this frolq Ulnnetonka?Okay. I assunred that.
Krauss: vlell a Lot of it is. The original sections, 6one of the originalsections that are in there toda], came froFr the innetonka ordlnance a! itsat a nuprber of l,ears ago. When I went back throngh, I tooked at, :rou knowr took rrhat we had in Minnetonka because r spent a lot of years dev-lopingthat there. Took out pieces that I didn't think were rel.evant and thenthrew in what werve alreaily ailopted here that r thought courd be adopted orchanged. Put that together.
Batzli: teah, f donrt knos. The residential lot just atruck ne as whatthe heck is that and I looked it up andt there uasnrt srrch a thing anil Ijust,thorrght te11, what they mean is of course a builiting on a 15t in aresidential zoneil district or sorrething llke that. Thatis real!.y pick:r.
Conrad: It doesnr t bother me.
me untl IBatzli: It didn I t bother
when it wasnrt there and
lrean . Not real l:r but . . .
I looked for residential lot and thenkind of have to Etart guessing what youthen ltou
Krauss: should we change it to a rot zoned and gulded for residentiar use?
Batzli: I mean that.s clearthrough the whole thing liketo. I 0anted to flag it thatvarious places of this and dodetall or do ee.
Conrad: I thlnk se do if ltrs unclear.unclear. I know what a residentlal lot
rnls lnterpreta tion in nry mind.
but then the queBtion ls, do we want to gothat and I donrt knoo that se necessarlly havethere are certaln probletns llke that in'
we sant to realllz go through Lt ln that
Now the residential lot
should be 60 lt wasnrt a
ras not
case of
Planning
Decenrber
Conrrrission Ueet ing6, 1989 - eage 9
Batzli: No, and I agree.I just bring that up as...
of.ElIson: Consistency ki nd
Batzli: Do we want to talk about
On11, if theyrre not clear.things like that? Onlf if the],rre clear. -
Enrmings: If it nakes it unclear, !'ourre rlght. we should change it.
Batzli: Then the question is, for lnstance ln 2A-L69, Section 1. Evidenceof orrnership or an interest in the propert!,. WeIl should that reall!' be,
welL lot rrouldnrt necessaril:, be a lot so propert:, is probably correct
there but I went through it and I nas kind of looking at things like that
and I guess I wonrt worr:/ about those.
Krauss: If I nra:/ nrake a suggestion, if you want to deal with the
srrbstantive ones and give nre the contextual ones anil we can just Frake those
changes before it goes to the City Council.
Batzli: Okalr. !^ 2g-L]-L, a date shall
we also review the building plan or no?
the building and that t!'pes of things.
be set for review
we sometines get
of site plan.
the interior of
Do
Krauss: The site plan appJ.ication requires that thel' give I'ouelevations fron all directions. we have not required lnteritrplans. A lot of tines thelrrre not developed at the stage that
thi ngs .
Batzli: I don't know. For instance ln 20-113, ninor site and bu
plans and alterations which do not lnvolve a variance. That mean
adnrinstrat i vel y approving it. The laat sentence reads any Personby a decision t\a!' appeal it to us. I would assulre that lncludesp1ans. Do you want that to occur ls lny question?
brri 1d ing
brri ldlng
you look at
Batzli: would there ever be a cause to have a public hearing on a brrilding -plan? Under the admistrative apprpoval, if a peraon is aggrieveil, suddenl:7
they conre under that section 111 dontt the:'? If !'ou adnristrativellt
approved one. They would suddenl]' have the right to come to us rrith thebuilding plan. Do rre want that to occur?
Krauss: You Frean by' building plan :Tourre talking about an interior?
i Id in9
s vou I re
aggrieved -bu i ldi ng
Krauss: 1g 1 gsrrld clarlfy further. If ltrs building plans ln terFrs of
structural. issues or aornething, thatts not Bomethlng I rould get into nor
t ould I think itrs something the Planning Conrmisslon souldl. well' let negive you a for instance. If ne approve tbe building. If you approved a
bullding that had a particular architectural atlrle, for lnstance !{arket
square, which has those signlflcant entryira:rs and we discussed them a }ot,
and they caFre in with building plans that slgnlflcantly altered that and
askedl me to ailt\instratlvel!, agprove it. I 9ou1d refuae. Ird say lrourappeals go right back to the Planning Corrnrisslon to see $hat the!' thlnk.
That rrould be a building plan that yes, I think it rrould be rrarranted for
yorr to review.
Planning
Decenber
Coprmiss ion l.{ee t i ng
6, 1989 - Page 10
Batzli: Do we anltwhere have a definition of building plan?
Krauss: I donrt believe so.
Batzri: tlaybe that'!s what confused rre. we talk at great rength about siteplans but this klnd of talks about building plans and site plins. Iguess I didn't know where those building plans realllr fit in and who wouldreview thenr.
Krauss: Ma:rbe rre should just clarif:, it by uslng the continuity of just
:al,ing rrinor site prans becauae site prans lnclu-e butrding and exteriorfeatlrres -
Batzri: Yourre going to approve thenr unress we think re Ehourd look at itunder 20-100(b). rs that a tl'pographical error? I courdnrt f inal thatsection.
Krauss: r think rrhat lrou have there is an exanrpre of cutting and pasting.
BatzLi: okay. what are the criteria? v{here are they ln this docurrent?
Krarrss: IrFr not certain. I,ll have to clarifl, that but I think what I uasreferring to are the nandatory site and buirding plan review.s unaer igi.---
Batzli: under 2g-Lg7? I guess r'nr kind of confused on that but...
conrad: rrnr real confused on that. The nhore, under adninstrativ,eapprovals, r donrt understand that. r think r want to ar10r, it but r donrtget it. r don't understand what you said ln those 5 sentences at arr andrid like to know when, under what- c i r cumstances . rhe key thete is rrlnorsltes and buiJ.ding plans and arteratlons which do not in-vorve a variancewhich are not accompanied by other matters. f r,ant to know when you havethe authorit:' to do it. Itrs got to be.
Batzli: It, s difficult to.
Krauss: Therers a catch-22 in there. As a etaff nrenber rtd like to havethe authorlt:r to work out minor detailed probrerrs. r also uant to have theauthorit!' to sa!, thatra beyond the scope of m:' authority and I canrt do it
9"9 i-f you disagree rith m3, oplnlon, tike tt Eo the plainlns Corruqission.rtrs hard to define uhat those ltems are golng to be becaus; thereis ashole variet:, of theh as the], crop up. you knor if you put a list, mlnorchanges to parking lots or minor architectural detalLs, Lhat.s Btill notgoing to do it because ehat'6 minor? you rrrlght have an archltect iiyingthat the entrances to the ehopping center are rrinor in bis opinion. -lgis
one of those open.ended things that re can try to define tt i ttttrebetter. I think it baslcally t! a n.tter of ln understanding by doing it.rf you think r tranagressed, telt me and we rork out an undei etind i ng -of
uhat nrinor heans. ltinor in r'ry opinlon ls, as lrour ataf f person, ts [.natshlch r an conrfortable dolng ln Etre contert thit you app.6"ea ti tn. rf rdonrt think it violates that approval 1 r rnr wtrrtn! to w-ork with sogreuodllr. -
But it is hard to define.
Planning
Decenber
Conrrqission Meeting
6, 1989 - Page 11
Conrad: Are rre talking about changes or are
These are changes that !,ourre talking aboutthink that should be, lt reaIly doesntt sa:,
Paul .
Batzli: But I donrt know if he
nean if soPreone caFle in rith an
deals is tbat they move a horrse
under that section?
talking about the site?
we've approved it. Iin those sords in here
$e
once
tha t
should be lirnited to just minor changes.
incredibly trlvialr I think one of thewithin Chanhassen or something lsnrt it
I
Krauss : It sa:rs
came alown here.I read it.
nove a structure. I was looking at that tonight beforeIt shouldnrt appl]' to single fanrily honres. It doesnrt
I
as
Batzli: r i{as thinking lf you Froved a single farrillt honre I
onto a platted lot. Met a1l the setbacks. It was reall!, k
brain deal. wh:' eould we rrant to see it? That's the kind
thinking of. I donrt mean to say no brain deal btrt one tha
Krauss: II think itintent.
Ellson:
and thenjust to
Krauss:
nto
ind
of
td
Chanha s sen
ofano
thing I was
oesnrt rea l1!t
raise an issue that we'd realllr need to look at but then the question is,
hol, do you define what do we need to look at and thatrs wh:/ I was hoplng
tbat when he changed that frorr 2S-Lgg to whatever it ras going to help. If -
wou were pointing to something, 6or\e set of guidellnes, I think that would
be llror,e helpful than none but like lrou said, itrs going to hi tough to
define it and ln any event it's going to be kind of loose:7 gbosey an:' rray
lrou do it.
can atterrpt at corring up with Eome sort of definition on it butboils down to ire as staff gainlng an understanding of !'our
ElLson:
atoP.
Yourre thinking riore changes? In other words, itts been aPproved
!7our re quickly going to, or rra:'be like that bank that cat're back
prove it a tad and it canre all the ra:t?
vlell !'eah. Sornething like that we nright say is rqinor.
Right and yet it nas back here again. That ehole peraon had to
Krauss: werve had projects rhere after the:rrve been approved and buildingpernits rrere reqrrested, re realized that the archltectural plans aresignificantty dlifferent than ,hat ltou approved. The brlcks disappeared.
Detalling goes arra!, and I sant to be in a Positlon to sa:r thatrs not what
the Planning CoFrnlsslon approved and I nonrt authorlze lt. If you want to
push this, you're not going to get a permlt. You're golng to.go back to
the Plannlng Conrrisslon. If on the other trand the:t sa:, I have this arch
over here but I need to move lt and ny entrance to tbe other alde of thebuilding. Itta stilt going to look prett!, nruch sirqiliar but I have to
change nry landscaping to do lt. fhatts nlnor anil we do those klnds of
things aII the tlne. I'd like to have the authorlt!, to do it because we've
been doing it.
Planning
DeceFrber
Conrnr i ss ion Meet ing
6, 1989 - Page 12
Batzli: I thlnk probabl], orrr relunctance is ttrat we don't have a goodfeering ourselves of what nrinor and not minor is. Not necessariry that wedonr t trust Your jrrdgnrent.
Ellson: The rord changes alone would help. Not just seelng it once.
conrad3 r think !'ou nentioned sonrething in there that r would feel arittle bit confortable with. changes but stirr naking the original intentof r,hat was previous approved. Thatrs :iour call to figrrre out what ourintent is. I never know if :'ou can lntlrrupt what 7 p6op1e here sa!, andalso- the Cit:' Councll because )'ou get a difierence of- opinion. The intentis what really you have to nreaiure-lt to. The onl!, othir thing I can ifrinXln that issue is if 1,ou nrake a decision, and I donit sant to createadlrinstrative stuff Lut tf 1,ou informed'us what you did. Just sa:, here,swhat I did. rtrs not an agenda itenr. rtrs just for infornration 6n orrrpart.
Krauss: We'd be
have, by the t inre
happeneil .
happ:, to try and keep you posted but sometimes this wo
lzou would have known about it, it rnay have already
uld
Ellson: weII not like having veto porerif yourre going the right nay rre saw the
Conrad: I donrt knoi{. Irll letadni.nstrative hassle but.
but just to keep us informed as to
changes or not.
lrou decide whether you rant. If thatrs an
Krauss ! I think initially an:rwa:' so that werrethat procedrrre is belng handled, I think thatrs
Krauss: Right.
Batzli: Okay. The nextspeciflcations. I hatefrorn the lot line night
1lne .
Krauss: Wel l
adnrlnstr a t ive
eection, substantlal corrrplianceusing the word substantial therebe subEtantially close to 35 feet
both conrfortable rith hov,a valld way of doing it.
the word ordlnance. Should
and/ ox to protect adjacent
wlth the plans and
because 3I feetfron the lot
conrad: we donrt eant to get into the job that you do. Thatrs clear.sone. stuff we just shouldnrt see but right now we donrt knoi, what irerreta).king about so Braln itts still yours.
BatzIi: In section 2A-LL4. Eourth Iine, afterthat be to proFrote the intent of this ordinance
ProPerties?
but rrould revert, that goes
approval sectlon rhicb says
hand in hand with the
lrou canrt create var iances .
Batzli: Yeah, I thlnk conatructlon of allcoFrpliance with the plans. perEonally. Ito not qnite do what the!, askeit then Lo doconrpliance. If I l,as an attorne:r, Ird love
aite elements shall be inthink yourre giving people rooFrthere by saylng in arrbstantialthat nord.
Pl ann i ng
Decerrrber
Corurrission Meeting
6, 1989 - Page 13
Krauss: Brian, I know what lrou're trfing to get at anal I would agree withit. The problenr we face is that virtrrally ever], plan that we see deviatesfor sopre reason b!' the time it goes through the Cit], Council but noreinPortantl:' b:, the tinre lt goes throrrgh final Plans and specs anil gets
building pernrit approval. If the:, have code conpliance reasons for
cbanglng entrances fron here to there or for enLarglng uinilow sizes or forbuilding parapets.
Batzli: Yeah, but ifin conrpliance with the
Cit:, Council, Directorthink this happens. I
seeing sonrething.
you added construction ofplans, specs approvetl b1zof Planning. I nrean it's
the site elenrents shall be
the Planning Commission,
a done deal by the tinre Isonething that Irn notdonit know.Mavbe that I s
Enrnrlng: I think yourre absolutel:, right. I think yorr can intetrupt
coFrpliance to mean substantlal coFrpliance but if :routre going to give the
developer substantial corrpliance, he's going to feel like he's got leevray.
Why give it to him?
Batzli: The next question is, I think we need to rerrord the approved by
the Planning conorission, cit:' council or Director of Planning 60 the:r donit
sa:r irell, we did according to the Planning Corrrission and reall]t the:t
should have been doing lt accordling to the City Council. I don't know shat
our narre has to be on there unless the Cit:t Councll doesn't review our
uork. I donrt know what the other Planning Comnission PeoPI€ think about
that. In other words, itrs the Corrncil's final sa:' and you have the
authorlt:, to Frake nrinor changes but thetr shouldnr t be doing rhat He told
thepr. They should be doing what the Citlz Council told theh.
or sorrethi ng?
Planning Conrrrission needs to be on
something, I'n perfectll' willing to
Enmings: The only thing I can thlnk of there, do you ever go back to
Planning Commission discusslon to find out Hhat the intent for something
uas that nraybe didnrt get discussed at the Citl, Council? Of cour6e I guess
the City Council sould be adopting that too lf they aPProved it anat the:'
could stiLl go back to the Planning Colurlssion Hlnutes.
trrauss: Let me glve you another for lnstance becauae this has haPPened to
nre on a nunber of occaslons rhere you rright aPProve sorqething and it gets
hung up at the council and lt goes through repeateal changes. B!' the tlt\e
the final version cones through, people arenrt thinking Btralght. werre
Iooking at a different set of issues and the final plan devlates frolr the
one :rou approved but not because an:rbod:, intended lt to deviate but because
Ellson: In case there was a flip floP
Batzli: Yeah. Exactly.
Conraal: So !,ou want it City Council?
Batzli: Yeah. I don't kno$ that the
there. Again, if I havenrt thought of
back off on that one.
Conrad: That sounds oka:r.
Pl ann i ng
Decerrber
Conrmission Heeting6, 1989 - Page 14
soFrehow it changed along the rra:r. yotr then gonot rrhat the Planning Conu,rissJ.on approved andthe Cit!' Council and we still want io enforce.
Comprission required is still binding upon !'orr.requirenrent. It just got lost ln the wash.
Elru\ings. Except one thing wourre salring thereaPprove an:'thing.
Batzli: vle recor&end approval.
Erhart: Nothing we do is binding.
back and aa:/ irel l ,it fell through the
What the Planning
We never forgave
that ' s
cracks at
tha t
Brarings: So thatrs a problem. I donrt know.the Planning Conrrrrission discusses sonrething anilinrposing a condition and the Cit!, Council ihenguess the:rrd also be adopting the ratlonale sothe Planning Conurrlssi.on Hinutes but our actiononl:/ a recoFFrending actlon so I guess nraybe you
P"!?li: SoF,ething to think about anywal, paut. 2S-tL6(b), the netal onloll9ing exteriors shall be rirqited lo trirq. Does that include accessor!,build ing s?
isnrt accurate. We dontt
I t rrould seenr to rre tha t i fthere nas a rationale for
adopted that condition, r
]rou could alvra:rs go back todoesnrt have, our action iscould take lt out of there.
Krauss: Yes.
Batzli: This is
as
like
Krauss: Yes.
Batzli: Sonething aboutthe concept but I nean,wanted to reland scape?plan?
a permanent reguirettrent.
perpetua 1?
Batzli: Is thi s in all d i str icts?
non-single fanriJ.y and duplex distrlcts, :res.Krauss: In all
Batzli: Where is that l inrited?
Krauss: The slte plan section onllr applies to those.
Batzli: Okay. Agricultural areas are also excluded?
Krauss: Right.
Batzli: oka:r. That was nry main concern rere thoae trro things. lrake surethat those rerenr t lncluded. aintenance of site randscaping, 2o-1L7. HowIong- can 1,ou reguire that these thingE are growing? That thiyrre replaced?How long are :rou lntending thls rnaintenance to occur?
Krauss: I vieo lt
thatstuff
Thelt I d
Just bothers n]e. I nean I like lt. I llkechanges. l{hat sould they have to do if the},have to come in with a dlfferent landscaping
Planning
Decembe r
Conunission Meeting6, 1989 - Page 15
Krauss: That gets into the adninstrative thing again. If sonrebody canre inand saicl I rdant to cut down a stand of Frature trees, werd probably have afit about that. If sonrebodl' cane to us and said re've got a new landscaper
who rrants to conrpletely, change the b[shes around and put in sone nei, treesand rnove sone stuff, werd probabl!' Just say fine. co ahead and do it andjust give us a cop!, of the plan for our flles. But I think the intent,
when you anil the Citl' Councll approve a project, ltrs not your intent thatthat project wlII look an:r different in 3 years than it does the day afteritrs built. Itrs :'our intent that it look like that for the life of theproject or be imptoved upon.
Batzli: I like that. Ua:rbe ge need to clarlf:, that tlris is forever andever then. I thought this l,as part of the landscape financial guarantees I
guess $hen I read it through the first tinre. Itis clear to Fle noi{ that itisn't but when I reail it I was initiall:, thinklng that this was for thefirst ltear and that this is part of that process. I understand retainingrralls now then. Ttrose are nr:, qrrestions.
Conrad: Oka:r, good ones. Just trro quick ones. The use of nretal onexteriors. So therers not a gooil , I guess Irpr a littte bit concerneilthat one. Therers not a high qualit!' netal that we would allow? Wedonrt know of an:/thing right now that seeFrs to neet?
wi thjust
Krauss: You know the technologl' keeps changing.
Krauss: Because that aluminunthe tr it\ nrater lal .
panel above the windoss we could have was
Conrad: There are, or at least I think it is, rooflngs that are really thefront of the buildings. The:, reallwell se've got then in downtown Chaprobabl:t, in that case thatrs probaare very attractive. They Look 1ik
so what is that?
onrt cover the roof but the:rrre the,n the realevelo[ment and thatrssod but there are tqetal roofs thatopper. the], probably are a copper,
t'dni
bryec
Conrad: Btlt toda!, there's nothing that re knoi, that reall:/ Uould Pteet thequalit:, that werre looking for?
Krauss! Irve not seen it. Frankl:, Irve cone across one buildlng ln thelast 8 years that I thought warranted a variance fron this standard and I
wrote this ordinance so lt wouldn't require a variance and that rras, if
:rourre fanriliar rrith it, there's the Kelr Nissan dealership up on Hw}, 12rhich tras a wooden front building and the:r ranted to hake lt a rructtclassier looking operation. The ordlnance that I had to work sith at thattime prohibited aII trretal except for glass curtainnall construction. Ifyou look, itrs a burnished alurrinum or brushed aluhinur[ rrith a reflectorglass anil itrs a ver:, Prett!' Iooking facade that the:, stuck uP there which
sas a technolog:' that hadln't been antlcipated uben ttre ordinance ras worded -that rra:r. I recoN\ended it and it got a variance to be approved but theray this is worded, that sort of a buildlng would have been alloeed.
Ellson: Hoe, can lrou aay that uould be alloued this tine?
Planning
Decelrber
Corrnrission Heeting6, 1989 -. Page 15
this does not, I guess the ray I envislon it,so lt doesn't appl:, to roofing naterials.are attractive and it nas on the Crossroads Bank.use it very effectively.
conrad: or copper canopies. Therers another case where r.ve seen thatuseil architecturally and thatts realt:/ attractlve ao therers sornethingthat, these words seenr to excluale thoie things so maybe you could cleanthat up a little bit. I thlnk the intent is rlght. - fhe-n f .rrr real confusedabout the Sectlon 2S-LL3. I reall!' need aone htlp there to rerrord that andf1gur9 out rrhat 2g-rgg (b) ls. Thoie are nry onry iwo. r thlnk generaril,this is real good.
Batzli: I have one other. The use of the term, and this ras actrrarly thebiggee and it was rrp front so r nlssed it. The use of the term buirdlintrather than structure. Is that intentional? If lrou have the Code in fiontof you and yorr rook up structure, nrrch broader an6 it includes u"irai^t-u"iit lncrudes sheds. It incrudes a rot of other things that r think we wantto lnclude.
Krauss: That is true antl
nraybe ne can clarify thatStanding seam Fre ta I roofsI think the]'rre going to
Krauss: We can convert tha t
ir
over.
OIsen: ...talking about all the way through?
a brrilding under 2g-I0?. 'Under
anything constructed, erected.ee eant to go that broad but itthan just bul lding.
Batzli: Yeah. Just the constructstructure includes building, fence,know that, I guess I donrt-know ifto ne that we wanted to go broader
OIsen: Fences and ever]rthing?
I don I t
seeFreal
Batzli: Thatis the big question.but I think building isnrt broadthings other than irhat you rould
Structure nray be a llttleenough. I think the intentthink of as a building.
bit too broadls to include
Krauss: Yeah, because werve had sonre problenrs t,lth the definition ofstructure in other sectionE of tbe ordinance. rtrs too arl enconrpassing.
Batzli: yeah. we alnost need aotnething in the hiddle. A klnd ofstructure.
EIlson: ouasi atructure.
Krauss:^ The site plan-covers everything thatts not - the prlnciple buirdingso I think itta actually covered there. tgerre talklng aiout tire Uuifaing:l{e're talking about the site. That atructural deflnlflon that re have doeshave sothe problenrs in here sith it.
Batzli: I just thought of for inetance where lt salra thove a building toal:' lot eithin the clt:'. well what if they nroved a sheat? I blg sn6d. Abig nretal shed. cet aE crazy aB lrou rant Lut the problenr in the structrlreis that ue tark about a buttding and a shed uelng itfterent thingg and r
Plannin
Decenrbe
9cr6 oFNrission }lee t i ng
,1989 - Page 17
think people lrould have good
the definition of structrrre.
tough luck.
the]rrre listed separately under _shed but not a building and so
argunrents that
I rnr noving a
Conrad: I think because rre asked :rou to change enough words in snsrrgh
sections that it probabll' nrakes sense. I think if you gave us a real, I
donrt think it's going to clog the next agenda. It should race throughhere. Give us one final chance to take a look at lt. Is there a Frotion totable this?
Enrnrings: Is there a definition under
Batzli: No. Not buildinq b], itself.
rrant except building b:, ltself.
Conrad:bring it
Krauss:
together
going to
be f ine.
l{ar}, Jo }loore
Ray Roettger
building?
Any other kind of buildling that !,ou
Okay. Any other corrfients? tlould it be wise to table this andback? An:' rush to get this through to Citl, Council?
No. Jo Ann and f have been spending time trying to get things
for the spring rush and I think holding it over a nreeting is not
hurt that. We donrt have real big agendas coFring up so that will
323I Dartnrouth Dr1ve
3221 Dartnouth Dr lve
Eprrnings: So nroved .
EIIson: And IrIl second it.
Ettnings nroved, Ellson seconded to table the zoning Ordinance Anrenilhent to
anend the City Code, Division 6r Site Plan Revier. to revise the procedures,
expand on deveLoprrent standards and require financial guarantees for
landscaping and other site lrrprovementa so staff can hake the nrodifications -outlined b!, the Planning Conmission. AII voted in favor and the motion
carr led .
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AHENDI,IENT TO AI'IEND THE CITY CODE TO }IODIEY THE
RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT ORDINANCE TO CLARIFY LOT DEPTH REOUIREUENTS.
Public Present:
NaFre Address
Jo Ann Olsen presentetl tbe staff report on the itenr. Chalrman Conrad call
the public hearing to order.
\
CH[NHfiSSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(512) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
UB!,TORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Senior Planner
DATE: December 28, 1989
SUBJ: Organizational ftems
A. E1ect Chair and Vice-Chair for 1990.
The Planning Commission elects aNominations and a vote should be
Chair and Vice-Chair
taken this evening.
B. Planning Commission By-Laws.
every year.
the
The Planning Conmission should review and adopt the planning
Commission By-Laws every year. If there are comments,/changes
Commission wishes to make, these should be discussed this -
even i ng .
C. Elect Housing and Redevelopment Authority Liaison.
The Planning Commission should elect one Commissioner to be pre-sent and represent the planning Commission at t.he HRA meetings.The HRA meetings are scheduled on the third Thursday of everymonth.
CITY OF
BYLAWS
PLANNING COUMISSION
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
The following bylaws are adopted by the City Planning Commissionto facilitate the performance of its duties and the exercising ofits functions as a conmission establisheal by the City Councilpursuant to the provision of Subdivision 1, SecLion 462.354llinnesota State Statutes anotated.
SECTION 1- Du!ieq and Responsibilities Planning Commission:
1.1
The Planning Commission shall
City Council through carrying
All final decisions are to be
L.2
selve as an advisory body to the
out reviews of planning matters.
made by the City Council.
prepare a Comprehensive PIan forCity and recommend on amenalments toPlanning Commission shallfuture development of the
plan as they arise.h
h
The
e
3
e
tt
1
The Planninq Commission sha11 initiate, direct, and review the
provisions and standarils of the Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision
Regulations and report its reconmendations to the City Council.
1.4
The Planning Conmission shall review applications and
for zoning ordinance amendments, subdivisions, street
conditional use permits anil site plan reviews and make
recommenalations to the City Council in accordance with
Ordinance and Subdivision Ordinance.
proposal s
vacations,theirthe Zoning
1.5
The Planning Commission
Proposals as prescribed
shal1 hold public
by the Zoning and
hearings on development
Subdivision Ordinances.
1.5 - Establishment of Subcommittees
The Planning Commission may, as
special subconmittees comprised
SECTION 2 !,!eetings:
2.1 Time
Regular meetings ofthird weeks of each
they deem appropriate, establishsolely of their orn members.
the Commission sha1l be held on the first and
nonth at 7:30 p.m. at the City Council
Chambers, 690 Coulter Drive, unless otherwise directed by the
Chairman, in vrhich case at least 24 hours notice will be given toall members. Regular meetings shall have a curfew of 11:00 p.n.
which may be waived at the discretion of the Chairman. Allunfinished business will be carried over to the next. regularPlanning Conmission meeting.
When the regular meeting day falls on a lega1 holiday, thereshall be no Planning Commission meeting.
2.2 - Special Meetings
Special meetings sha1l be held upon call by the Chairman, or inhis absence, by the Vice-Chairman or any olher member with theconcurrence of four other members of the comrnission, and vJith atleast d8 hours of notice to all members. Notice of all specialmeetings shall also be posted on the official City Bulletin
Board .
Planning Commission members sha11 attend not less than seventy-five (75t).percent of all regular and special meetings heldduring a given (calendar) year, and shall not be abs6nt fromthree (3) consecutive meetings without prior approval of thechairman- Failure to meet this minimurn attendiice requirementsha11 be cause for removal fron the Commission by action of theCity Counc i 1 .
2.3 At tendan ce
SECTION 3 Commi ssion Conposition Terms and Vacancies:
3.1 - Compos ition
The Commission sha11 consist of ?shall be appointed by the CouncilCouncil.
3.2 - Terms and Vacancies
Four Planning Commission members shall constitutethe transaction of business. Whenever a quorum isno final or official action shall be taken at such
voting members. Seven members
and may be removetl by the
a quorum fornot present,
meeting.
The Council shall appoint seven members to the Commission forterms of three years. vacancies during the term shall be filteclby the Council for the unexpired portion of the term. Bvery
?ppointed member sha1l befole entering upon the charge of hisduties take an oath that he will faithfully discharg6 the dutiesof his office. A11 menbers shall serve wiLhout comlensation.
3.3 - Quorum
-2-
SECTION 4 Orqanization:
4.1 Election of Officers
At the first neeting in January of each year, the Planning
Commission shalI hold an organization neeting. At this meeLing,the Comission shall elect from its membership a Chairman andVice-Chairnan. This sha1l be done by secret ba1lot. Each member
sha1l cast its ba11ot for the member he wishes to be chosed for
Chairman. If no one receives a majority, balloting shall con-tinue until one member receives the majority support.
Vice-Chairman shall be elected from the remaining numbers of the
same proceeding.
If the Chairman retires fron the Planning Commission before thenext regular organizational meeting, the Vice-Chairman shall be
Chairman. If both Chairman and Vice-Chairman retire, new offi-cers shall be elected at the next regular meeting. If both
Chairman and Vice-Chairman are absent from a meeting, the
Commission shaIl elect a temporary Chairman by voice vote.
4.2 - Duties of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman
The Chairman or in his absence, the Vice-Chairman, shall preside
at meetings, appoint committees from its own membership, and per-
form other such duties as orclered by the Commission.
The Chairman shal1 conduct the meeting so as to keep it iootirrgrapidly and efficiently as possible and shall remind members,
witnesses and petitioners to preserve order and decorum and to
keep comments to the subject at hand.
The Chairman shal1 not move for action but may second motions.
SECTION 5 Procedure:
5.1 Parlimentary Procedure
Parlimentary Procedure governed by Roberts Rules of Ortler Reviseil
shall be followed at all regular meetings. At special work
session meetings, and yJhen appropriate, the Commission may hold
group discussions not following any set parlimentary procedures
except irhen motions are before the Commission.
SECTION 6 PubIic He ar].nqs:
6.I - Purpose of Hearings
?he purpose of a hearing is to collect information and facts in
order for the Conmission to develop a rational planning recommen-
dation for the City Council.
6.2 - Hearing Procedure
following procedure shall be followed in eachAt hearings the
case:
-3-
b. The Chairman sha1l caLl upon the staff to present the staffreport. Required reports from each City Department sha11 besubmitted to the Planning Commission before each case isheard.
a. The Chairman sha1l state the case to be heard.
The Chairman sha11 ask the applicant to present
Interested persons may address the Commission,mation regarding the particular proposal .
c
d
his case.
giving infor-
e.
f.
s.
h.
6.3
Petitioners and the public are to address the Chairmannot staff or other commissioners.
At meetings where more than one
There shal1 be no dialogue among the Commissioners, givinginformation regarding the parti-uJ.ar proposal.
(The Planning Commission members may ask questions of personsaddressing the Commission in order Lo cla;ify a fact, Lut anystatement by a member for any other purpose Lhan to questionmay be ruled out of order. ) -
After aIl new facts and information have been brought forth,the. hearing shaIl be closed and interested persons-stra11 noibe heard again. Upon completion of the healing on each case,the Planning Commission shall discuss the item at nana anarender a decision. The planning Cornmission if it so.desires,may leave the public record open for written comments for aspecified period of tirne.
The Chairrnan shall have the responsibility to inforn aII theparties of their rights of appell on any decision o. recomj-mendation of the planning Commission.
- Schedule
only,
effort shall be made to beginagenda, but in no case may anthe advertised time listed on
eair
th
SECTION 7 - Miscellaneous:
7.1 Planning Commission Discuss ion
hearing is scheduled, everych case at the time set in the
em be ca11ed for hearing prior toe agenda.
llatters for cliscussion which do not appear on the agenda may beconsidered and discussed by the commiliion onry whei initiitedand presented by the staff and sharr be placed at the end or trr.agenda.
7.2 - Suspension of Rules
any of these rules by a unanimous voteThe Conunission may suspendof the menbers present.
-4-
7.3 - Amendments
Amendment of these bylaws may
meeting of the Planning Commis
meeting agenda in advance of t
made at any regular or special
on but only if scheduled on the
meeting.
besi
he
7.4 - Review
At the first meeting in January of each year, these bylaws shal1
be reatl and adopted by the Planning Commission.
Adoptetl:Date:
C ha i rman
-5-
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETI NG
DECEMBER 6, I989
Cha i rrran Conr ad
MEMBERS PRESENT:
and Brian Batzli
STAFF PRESENT: PaIr]. Krauss,
Planner and Sharlnin A1-Ja ff,
called the neeting to order at 7:45 p.Fr..
Tin Erhart, Steve Enmings, Annette Ellson, Ladal Conrad
Di rector
Planning
of Planning; Jo Ann Olsen, SeniorIntern
BLOCK 1, FRONTIER DEVELOPMEMNT PARK
OUTLOTS ON PROPERTY ZONED BH, HIGHWAY
EAST AND WEST SIDES OE MARKET
OE THE SOO LINE RAILROAD, CROSSROADS
Sharnrin A1-Jaff presented the staffpublic hearing to order.
report. Chairnran Conrad called the
Erhart hoved,
favor and the
Enrrr i ng s seconded
Frotion catried.
to close the public hearing.
The public hearing was closed.
AII voted in
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jirr Wi lderhuth
PUBLIC HEARING:
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO REPLAT LOTS 5-9,(L6.77 ACRES) rNrO TWO rOTS AND EOUR
BUSINESS DISTRICT AND LOCATED ON THE
BOULEVARD, NORTH OF HWY. 5 AND SOUTH
PLAZA ADDITION, CITY OE' CHANHASSEN.
Krauss: I,{e should add that that last condition is a new one.
EFrnrings: Yeah, would lrou sa:, it again?
Krarlss: What werre proposing is that, therers a problenr in there that theunderlying zoning does not conforFr to the new rocltion of Market Brvd.. I{ehave the BH and the BG districts which wiII be split partially b:, the newarignnrent. Tlterers a corner of the BG conrnrerciai arei that extends overonto the bank propert!,. I think this pretty nruch outlines it right there.what we want to do is rrrake our zoning nap look a little rr,ore reatonable byextending the BH district, which is over here, up to the street. so rrhat
vrer re asking is that the future purchaser of Lot r, the bank, not contest,be reqrrired to not contest a city sponsored rezoning.
Hrmings: So what do ]rou irant that last condition to say?
Krauss: That the owner of Lot 1, Block 1 agree not to contest the citrrsponsored rezoning of the entire site to the BH district.
Enrnrings: Are we stirl in a position with that purchase that te can lrrrposea condition on hiFr at this point in tlhe?
Krauss: The], haven't cLosed on the property.
Etnrings: Okay.
ConLad: Okay. It is a public hearing. Are there an!, coFlrrtents?
Planning
Decembe r
Connission Meetlng
6, 1989 - Page 2
Batzl i :
t inre?
Wh:, again do 1'orr want to hake Outlot A into Lot 2, Block l at this
Krauss: The purpose for that is that what rre'd like to call Lot 2 isbuildable lot. That the HRA intends at some point to seII to anotherpurchaser. Conveying it with outlot status heans it would have to be
repLatted to remove that status in the future. It rrorrld seen to be a
cleaner for all concerned lf the HRA just had a sirnple Lot 2 to deal
than to sell.
a
lot
wi th
Batzli: What's the down side of doing lt now and not leaving it an outlot?
called D on the other
this one crosses over.
whole thing is c all
I vras thinking that
side I think.
the wa]r dohrn to here.
B rla]rbe crossed it. I donr t have
Krauss:
EIIson:
Erring s :
EIIson:
an]'th i ng
E\rrings:
Erhart:
Conrad:
weIl it's
And like
No, this
That I s rrhatelse to add
I donrt
I wish I
I canrt
have an],
had sohe
think of
other questions.
qrrestions but I jrrst canrt think
anlr either.
a
b. The finat plat should include the t:tpical utility
easements over each lot; 5 feet on side lot lines
the front and rear lot lines.
and
and over
of anw.
drainage
10 feet
An additional utilit!, easeFrent shorrld be shorrn on the Platexisting gas line across the northerl!, lot lines of otltlot
Lots 1 and 2, Block 1.
for the
E and
Krauss: I donrt think there is any since the citlr ohrns it. Itis not as
though it's an J.ndependent owner who can corre in and just sa],, I have a
site plan. Yorl have to approve it. It is an HRA controlled parcel.
Ellson: When I first read this I got reall!, confused reading the nrap brrt
can :'ou point out C again? Jrrst that whole strip. Even though that one
kind of crosses it.
Enrrrlngs noved, Batzl.i seconded that the Planning Conmission reconmend
approval of Subdivision Request *89-19 as shown on the prelininary plat
dated October 27, 1989 and subject to the following conditions:
1. The following easements shall be provided:
A 20 foot wide utility and drainage easement will be required
on Lot 2, Block I.
Planning
Decerqbe r
Conurri ss i on ueeting
6, 1989 - Page 3
d Ctoss access
1i. ne between
each Iot.
easerrent overLots 1 and 2.
the southern 50 feet of the colrttlon
The easement shall be 20 feet wide
Iot
on
2. ?he final plat sho[ld shor{ Outlot A as Lot 2, Block 1
3 The Lot l park dedication fee should bepurchase agreement at the time of sale.acquire park dedication fees on Lot 2 atfor developnrent.
4.The owner of Lot 1, Block I agree notrezoning of the entire site to the BH
All voted in favor and the notion car:ried.
Paul Krauss presented the
hear ing to or:der .
hrl'r i ng s Froved, EIlson secondedfavor and the nrotion carried.
Erhart: r donrt reallv
d iscussion.
paid as outlined in the HRA!s
The City reserves the right tosrrch tirre as it is proposed
to contest thedistrict.City sponsored
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
zoNrNG oRDTNANCE AMENDMENT To AMEND THE crry coDE, DrvrsroN 6, srrEREvrEw ro REvrsE THE PROCEDURE, EXPAND oN DEvELopItENT STANDARDS ANDFINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR LANDSCAPING AND OTHER SITE IMPROVEMENTS.
PLAN
REQUIRE
staff report. ChairFran Conrad called the public
to close the prrblic hearing. All voted inThe public hearing was closed.
have anlrthing right now Ladd. Ma]rbe after sone
-Erurings: Irve just got a couple things. On page 6 on iteh C at the top.where it saYs, in the second sentence] tow pr6fite, serf-containedrrechanicar units which blend i.n wlth ihe brriLding,'"..t,1t""["re are exenptfroFr the screening requirenent. r wonder if we lhourd aad-onto that, thatunless topography nakes then visible to other properties or sonething rikethat so that i{e have an out there to require slreining in-so,re oaacircunrstance. I think the general idea-is fine.
Krausss Should we say then ma:' be exenrpt instead of are?
E,utings: Yeah. or ma:, be exempt. Thatrs right. That rrourd be fine. rrdagree with that change rather than the language r had. That's even broaderand r rike it better because it gives therr-th5 idea that wE-night ..""piEomething other than the screening which r think is fine but if doesn,lnrake it autonratic. If thelr buy a-low profile unj.t becaus" -tt"." nright beone thatrs obnoxio's. Arright. The olher thing is, r.nr jrrst glad fhatHoward wasnrt here to hear you say plain concrete block.
Conrad: Yeah, Honard would not go aj.ong rdith that.
Planning
Decenber
Conrnrission Meeting
6, L989 - Page 4
Erunings: Hoerard thought a conctete block was a thing of beatrt:r. Anltthing
that was nrade out of concrete or anything. Masonry was...
Krauss: To their credit thongh, the nasonr]r inilrrstry has been very
creative with concrete block. I mean thel' nrake burnished block and exposeal
aggregate and different inprints on it. Some of the strrff looks like
brick. Sonre of the stnff looks Like granite and I donrt tlave a Problen at
aLI with any of those devlations.
Errrrrings: Irn just kidding. This doesn't deserve all this. I just nanted
to remehber Howard. The public hearing asPect of it, I have a1wa1's been
concerned, this is a pet issrte of nine I guess na:/be brrt when yourre going
to give notice to owners of property, it seens to me that we have this 350
and lra:tbe a 5gg foot standard in some cases and the idea is to give notice
to people who Fright be affected b:, the Project. In nr], experience, becartse
I Live on a 1ake, I'Fr affected b:, things that happen furthe,: awa:' than 350
or 5gg feet and in fact Irve used this exanrple and I'Ft sure ever)'bod!'rs
tired of it but when Red Cedar Cove was built, all those townhouses, I live
directllt across from that and look right at it and never knew it was going
in there until it irent up. So I know that under the, I think under the CUP
or at least under sonre other section we have J.angrrage in there that says
that if the parcel is on the rake, that ProPe':t:' oe'ners or the owners of
Iakeshore properties are also notified and I think thatrs a real good thing
to do on a-Iake. Bttt that again, like I sa:', thatrs sonething I'd Iike to
add but I donrt know what other People think of that.
Krauss: Jo Ann was jrrst telring nte we do that as policy' rtrs not in the
ordinance. One thing we'd like to do though.
ETrrrings: What I s that?
know thatOlsen: I dontt that's wr i tten.
Errnring s :it ' s in the ordinance.
ol sen 3
No,
Just for CUP's? Because we do it for everltbody.
Ehhings: I know that it's in there for, I think itrs
and Fril'be not for zoning ordinance anenclnents or it's
but thatrs something r've ari{a}'s had on I\y own little
to nake aII of those consistent and right noi, the:rrre
in there
the other
nork Iist
not.
for CUP I s
ifa!'around
is we ought
Krauss: I would standardize that, I would change that 350 to 500 since
thatrs vrhat werve used elsewhere. One of the things that a lot of
coFununities do that we haven't done, and Irm a little rel.unctant to propose
it becarrse it's sort of an adFrinstrative probleh, but itrs sometines useful
is to require the Posting of signs' rf !'ou go into llinnetonka or
Blooningion or Edina, yourll oftentines Pass b!' signs that. say proposed
subdivision this site. call cit!, Hall. Now in Edina I think they hake the
developer put then up. There's a standard fornat they use. In llinnetonka
w" ,rsed to have the aitl, print these things up and it was our signs and our
crews put then uP. tha! iequiret\ent gets owners, for exaFrPle if youire
like our first itenr tonight that was Pulled, You're just dividing two lots.
Planning
Decenrber
Coprrnission l.teeting6, 1989 - Page 5
Having to bu:t a sign to put up on ]rortr propert!'. If itrs a cit]r sign, it,sno big deal. rt's included in your application fee but it's suipriling trowrrany people see those things and wiLl calr in on it. rf the ult-inrate !oa1is to notif:, as Fran:' people as possibler lou rright rrant to make that ai aproposal. rt's sonrething that r assume would reqrrire soFre funding sourcebecause it's not an insignificant expense to rnake those signs up iut thatis an option.
Conrad: Donr t we have,to put up a sign because
had it going.
is there an1,
werve tal ked
sitrration where weabout this before
a reqrr i r eFrentthought we
ha ie
and I
O1sen: We used toenforced. It usedin there an:trrrore.
have that in there and whether or not itto be in there. I,nr looking right norr.
was everI dontt see it
conrad: rtrs arFrost we shorrld have a sign up, if the zoning changes, iftherers a srrbdivision going in, if thereis anlrthing that thi public. If wehave a public hearing, theie shorrld be a sign-goini up. itis- ttre best way,i{ithout a dorrbt itrs the best wa:, to inforh ttre pu[fll of what,s going on-.'I think we've tarked about the cost before and sine peopre bear a burden,heavier brrrden rrhen it's a sinpre llttre dear but g"2",' iid s,r." like rrs tothink, na]rbe we rent.signs to these people. r.rayU"'ifre'City tafes tfreburden on to begin with and then chaigei-a sign'fee to pi:r'fo. the signrental for the &onth preceeding the hearing.
olsen: Then $retII have consistent signs too.
EIlson:
see that
Kr auss 3caII the
Yeah ,sign.
Thatrs
Ci tl,.
it'd be the sanre looking and you'd start driving and yourd
inrportant that lrou standardize on the sign forrrat. It sa],s
Conrad: I srlre would like to do that. In fact I thought
Krauss: If yourd like to nake that as a proposal, weto the City Cor:ncil and get solre inforrnation- for theFrcost r{ith solre different options.
Letrs do that. We corfient, r,e never knew that rrassign will take care of all the problenr or a buLkthrough. Peop1e donrt read the nesspapers. The:,
can
on
rre were.
ca r llt that on uP
t hat that hight
happening.of the problenrs
sinPI!, don I t.
Hennepin
some ofa 500 foott and the
had no endwill not
Conrad:
That onethat get
ElIson: Or their rrrail.
Krauss 3 The rnaiI, frankl]r, the mail in Carver Count], is tough.count:' has a conprrterlzed address fire as does Dakoti countv andthe others where you tell them, !'ourve got this Iot and tou-needlist.and :,ou get a comprrter geneiated nrip wittr a citcre iround inailing label.s and everything else. Our pLanning secietiil, frasof trouble trying to get fornal lists fron Carvei Count],. The],certify a 1ist.
Planning
Decerrber
Corqrr i ss i on Meet i ng6, 1989 - Page 6
Errnrings : Don I t lrou get i t f ron the Abstract conpan!,?
Krauss: The Abstract compan:, sontt certify it and the:7 won't do it in a
tinrely matter apparently. Therer s onl], one Abstract comPan]r.
Olsen: Itrs very expensive.
Krauss: so what wetve been doing, the best that we can do is have peoP1e
corne through our plat files and Pick out the lots and go look trp the
addresses and prake up a hailing list but that is not whati s specified and
thatrs basicaLly aII we're able to do because of Carver Count]trs positlon.
Olsen: lfe Frake them go through the Abstract coFrPanli.
Krauss: Yeah, for the bigger Plats.
Olsen: Even small ones we've always make thenr. we tr!,.
Etrnrings: For nry lot I had to alo that.
Conrad: Steve, I interruPted. An]rthing else?
Enrnings: No.
EIIson: I think I reFreFrber talking aborrt the nraterial and what have you
and rrn a rittre concerned about saying the use of any netal ' rt's like
:rou said, a lot of times it's done ver), tastefull]r. I know al,uFrinun siding
is considered hetal and there's residential all over the place where ]'ou
canrt real11, tell it looks alurninun. I grress I'r'r a little concerned abotrt
rrsing jrrst lhe brazed hetar because that's like saf ing all prastics are
alike.- AII rrretal looks the same. Under the ordinance on the first page
lrourre talking about excePtions. Constructionor or alteration of a single
or two fanrily residential building oL- accessory brrilding on a residential
1ot. Does that nean a garage wotrldnr t have to come?
Olsen: A site plan?
Ellson: Yeah.
(There rras a tape change drrring Jo Ann OLsen's answer.)
Ellson! The other thing is shen werre
this mean that we'1I guarantee that lre
Krauss: we rrould guarantee that we will schedule or try to schealule it.
talking about
wi 11 see thi s
the 4 weeks. Does
within 4 weeks?
or
say
the
Ellson: I was thinking maybe we should sa:,, not less than 4 weeks
sonrething to that effect. rrd hate to feel that the!' corrre in and
rr1, 4 weeks is here and the]t never provided you erith ttdo-thirds of
things intiatl!' required and things like that.
okay,
Planning
DeceFrber
Corrrrission Meeting
6, 1989 - Page 7
Krauss: There's always that option. If we deternrine that itrs not acoFrplete appllcation or we need additional infornation, we jrrst puII it.
Ellson: r donrt know that we have to give thern a guarantee if we're notready. If ererve got people sick. If irerve got things going on. We l{antto do a thororrgh job ]ret this 4 weeks is a reqrrirement. r hate the factthat werre putting it in writing that we.rr guarantee 4 weeks when there'sall sorts of things that could happen. I aLso noticed, relr r think wementioned that. on page 4 it $as 350 feet and I thought it iras 500 that wedid. cenerarr], r guess r.donit have a good feel for ihat, we,re talkingabout ha!'be that Ronan !!ing. We would have the authorit:, to grant thafsite plan or sonething like that. Ma!,be we could take a -look at thehistory. How often is there a difference between what we say and erhat theCit:, Council sa]rs and Fral/be that would be sonre rationale to srrpportsorrething like these t]'pes of issrres and then go back to the pait and sa1,,here was one. He,.e lras one and the], went through witbout a hitch "".n
''
exanple. But if there rra s 1'ou know a good 5Ot oi something that rre had toadd-to.gT lukg awa:' or disagreed or sonething like that, fhen r,d probabr],irould think that that extra bod:' of approval would be $rorth it. I alsoagree that anl, ki.nd of notification or increase of it or front pageadvertisenent requirenents. Sorretines I reall!r think that conrnunication isin nry feelings, alnost always the solution. eeople ali{alrs feel it happens-withorrt thenr knowing it-and they think that they w... .lipea otf ana ti:e},donrt feel itrs fair.and even though itrs in th6 virlagei'ina trr;.ngs riii,that-happen, the), still don'|t feel that so r think the sign iarea iifabrrlous and I think that an!, other kinds of things to rnafe sure thatpeople are notified r think worrld be wonder-frrr. i don't think we courd doenough probabllr. Thatrs rrhat I have.
Errnrings: Ladd' corrrd r just go back and coFu\rent on something she broughtup that r forgot to coFarent on and that is rrhether or not you shorrld 95onto the City Council. I think that the:/ shorrld. The rea'son I think so isthat- I think it,s good, particularl:' on i large developrrent, tt.t tfr.deveJ.oper get a feer fro.r- as nrant, p6opJ.e in a position'io i"t.. approve hisproject as soon as possible. If-we m-iss orre, if we,re reall], out- 6f slrncon one of thenr with the Cit:' Council, and the person winAs u! with, tifr, -
srrre he'd rather knohr that early on rather thai later. f haie a feelingthat these should go onto to the City Council.
Batzli: Would ]rou get the same result if it was either the lotaggrieved or within 10 days after our decision the Cit], Councilreview it?
be m:' intent that if we proposed that, tbat the:, rrouldappeal to the Cit:' Council. Thatrs tlpically the wa1,
oirner felt
wanted to
Krauss: It would
have the right ofit's done .
Batzli 3 And I agree
wanted to review it,that it would bethey could.
either or. If the City Council
Errnrings: How rrorrld they know unti I the!, reviewed it?
Planning
DecePrber
Corrrrr i ss ion Mee t ing
6, 1989 - Page I
Batzli: I don't know but it would be kind of like a consent agenda deal
and of course yrou know that Chanhassenrs consent agenda is never a consent
agenda so. lt:r turn?
Conrad: Yeah.
Batzli: I like sections 106 and 1I0. I have sorne probllrrs r,ri th sone of
the otber ones. Part of it is just language. I think yorr nrisrrse the rrord
section and division in various places throughout the ProPosetl changes
PauI . For instance i^ 2g-LgB as just one exaFrple. Not$ithstanding the
provisions of this section. That should probabllt read division or it
should read sectio^ 2g-197. one of the two. Question on residential lot.
We have a definition of lot but not necessarily a residential Iot. I don't
know hor., picklr we really want to get about our ordinances but itrs probabl:/
a lot thatrs in a zoned residential zoned area or something like that.
Therers no such thing as really a residentiat 1ot. Therers a lot which is a
neets and bounds parcel that's recordeil bttt nr:/ question is jIst, I guess Fr:7
bigger question is, where did this come fronr? Sopre of this it's clear cante
frorr our ordinance already. Is this coPied fronr another cit:t? Did I miss
that? Did you tell us where lzou got this frorq? Is this from Minnetonka?
okay. I assurred that.
Krauss: well a lot of it is. The original sections, sorrre of the original
sections that are in there todalt came fronr the Minnetonka ordinance as it
sat a nunber of I'ears ago. When I went back through, I looked at, you know
I took what we had in Minnetonka because I sPent a lot of years developing
that there. Took out pieces that I didn't think were relevant and then
threw in what werve alreadl' adoPted here that I thought could be adoPted or
changed. Put that together.
Batzli: Yeah, I donrt know. The residentiaL lot jrrst struck me as what
the heck is that and I looked it up and there wasnrt stlch a thing and I
just thought weII, rf,hat the:' nean is of course a brrilding on a lot in a
iesidentiil zoned district or sonrething Iike that. Thatrs reall]' pickl'.
Conrad: It doesn't bother nre.
Batzli: It didn't bother me rrntil I looked for residential lot and then
when it wasnit there and then :,ou kind of have to start guessing what ]tou
rrrean . Not reaL llt but . . .
Krauss: Should we change it to a 1ot zoned and guided for residential use?
Batzli: I mean that's clear
through the whole thing like
to. I wanted to flag it that
various places of this and do
detail or do we.
Conrad: I think we do if it's uncLear.
unclear. I know what a residential Lot
nisinterpretation in nry nrind.
but then the question is, do ire want to 90that and I donit know that t,e necessarily have
there are certain Problems like that in
rre want to reall!' go through it in that
Now the residential Iot
should be so it erasnit a
was not
case of
Planning
December
Conrnri ss i on Meet i ng6, 1989 - Page 9
Batz] i :
EIlson:
No, and I agree.
Consistency kind
I just bring that up as...
of.
Emningss rf it nrakes it unclearr lourre right. we should change it.
BatzLi: Then the question is, for instance ln 2g-Lgg, section 1. Evidenceof onnership or an interest- in_ the propert]r. WeII should that really be,$rell lot yrouldnrt necessarily be a lot so propertl, is probably correitthere but r eent throrrgh it and r was kind of- rooking it ttrings rike thatand I guess I won I t r.rorr:, about those.
Batzl i : Do rre rdant to talk aborrt
OnI!, if theltrre not clear.things like that? OnI]' if the]rrre clear.
to dea 1 rri th the
and we can j rrst nrake those
Krauss: If I nralr nrake a suggestion, if 1,ouslrbstantive ones and give nre the contextualchanges before it goes to the City Council.
Batzli: Oka]'. In 20-IIIr a date shall beire also review the building ptan or no? Wethe building and that ty,pes of things.
Krauss! The site plan application requireselevations fron all directions. We hive notPlans. A tot of tihes theyrre not developedthings.
Batzli: Would there ever be a cause to haveplan? Under the adrristrative apprpoval, ifthel, cone under that section tff-don't lheyaapproved one. They would suddenly have thtbuild5.ng plan. Do we want that t6 occur?
. hearing on a brrildingis aggrieved, sudden).vadrristrativel],
come to us with the
$rant
ones
set for reviewsonetines get
of site plan.
the interior of
Do
that they give yourequired i nter i orat the stage that
brri 1d ing
brrilding
]rou look at
a publ i ca Person
I f !'ouright to
Krauss: You nrean by building plan l'orrrre talking about an interior?
Batzli: r donrt know. For instance in 20-113, hinor site and buirdingplans and alterations which do not invorve a variance. That neans ]rourreadninstra t i vel ], approving, it. The last sentence reads any f"r"on aggrievedb1' a decision r'a!' appeaL it to us. r irould assune ttrit i-nciuaes uuiiaing--plans. Do lrou want that to occur is my questlon?
Krauss: rf r corrld clarify further. rf it's buirding prans in terns ofstruct[rar issues or sorrething, that'a not sometrring i -would get into norirould r think itrs sohething the planning conftissioi wourd. *elr, ret megive I'ou a for instance.. ri we approve fhe buitding. ri-you approved abuilding that had a particular architectural st!,ler-for iniiance !,tarketSquare, which has those significant entr:rways aid we discussed thenr a lotland the:' carne in with building plans thal significantl:, altered that andasked ne to adrninstr a ti very approve it. r would refusi. rrd sa), lrourappears go right back.to the planning corrnnission to see wtrit ttrei ttrint<.That rrourd be a buiLding pran that yts, r think it reo,ld be warranted for:tou to review.
Pl ann i ng
Decenrber
Conrml ssion Meeting
6, 1989 - Page 10
Batzli: Do we an1'where have a definition of building plan?
Krauss: I don't bel ieve so.
Batzli: Maybeplans but thi s
guess I didnrt
review thenr.
thatrs i{hat confused nre. We talk at great length about site
kind of talks about building plans and site p1ans. I
know yrhere those building plans realllt fit in and who worrld
Krauss 3 Ma!'be rre
saying pri nor si te
features.
Krauss: I Inr not
referring to are
shouLd just clar i
plans because sit 1' using the continuit!, of just
include building and ex ter i or
ff it b
e Plans
Krauss: I think what you have there is an exarrple of cutting and Pasting.
Batzli: okay. $lhat are the criteria? where are thef in this docurrent?
certain. Iill have to clariflt that brrt I think what I was
the nandatory site and building plan reviews under 197.
Batzli: Under 20-LS7? I guess I'nr kind of confused on that but..-
Conrad: Irnr real confused on that. The whole, rrnder adrrinstrative
approvals, I donrt understand that. I think I want to allow it but I donrt
gei it. I donit understand what ]'ou said in those 5 sentences at aI1 and
itd tike to know when, under what circurstances. The kel' there is minor
sites and building plans and alterations which do not involve a variance
which are not accompanied b1' other matters. I want to knoi{ when !'/ou have
the authorit:/ to do it. Itrs got to be.
Batzli : rt'!s difficult to.
Krauss: Therer s a catch-22 in there. As a staff member Ird like to have
the atrthorit:, to work out minor detailed problerrs. I also irant to have the
authority to sa:t thatrs bel,ond the scoPe of my authoritY and I can't do it
and if you disagree irith m:' oPinion, take it to the Planning Connission.
Itrs hard to define irhat those items are going to be because therers a
whole variet:' of then as thel, crop up. You knoi, if you put a list, rninor
changes to parking lots or nrinor architectural details, thatrs still not
going to do it beiause thatrs minor? You nright have an architect saying
that-the entrances to the shopping center are Frinor in his oPinion. Itrs
one of those oPen ended things that we can tr!' to define it a little
better. I think it basically is a Fratter of an understanding b!' doing it.
If lrou think I transgressed, tell me and we work out an understanding of
what nrinor heans. Minor in rrr1, opini.on is, as your staff person, is that
which r arr conrfortable doing in the context that ltou apProved it in. If I
don't think it violates that apProval, Irm willing to work irith soFlebod!'.
But it is hard to define.
Batzli: Yourre going to approve thenr unless we think we should look at it
under 2O-1Og(b). Is that a tlrPograPhical error? I couldnr t find that
secEion.
Planning
Decenbe r
Conunission Meeting5, 1989 - Page 11
Conrad: Are we talking about changes or are we
These are changes that :rou're talking about oncethink that shorrld be, it realt]r doesn't sa!, that
Paul .
talking about the site?
ire I ve approved it. Iin those words in here
Batzli: Brrt I donrt know if he
nrean if sonreone cane in with andeals is that the:, rrrove a houseunder that section?
Krauss: It salrs
canre down here.I read it.
should be linrited to just minor changes.incredibly trivial, I think one of therrithin Chanhassen or something isnrt it
nove a structure. I was looking at that tonight beforeIt shouldnIt appl:, to single farrrill' holres. it doesn,t
I can attenrpt at coning upit boils down to we as staff
I
I
Batzli: I was thinking if yorr Froved a single farrilyr honre into Chanhassenonto a platted lot. Met all the setbacks. It was ieall1, kind of a nobrain-deal: why wourd we want to see rt? That,s trre ri'na of thing r wasthinking of. r donrt Frean to say no brain dear but one tt.i oo"sn,t reallvraise an issue that werd rearry need to rook at but then ttr. qr"";io^^;;;-'how do you define what do we need to look at and thatrs whv I -was hopingthat when he changed that fron za-lag to $hatever it wis j'oing to nerp. rf:'orr were. pointing to sonething, sone set of guiderines, r'itrinr< trrii iourJ-be nrore helpfrrl than none. but-Like.you said, it," lolni [o Ue tougfr todefine it and in any event it's goiig to be'kind oi-i;;=;:, loo="1, an!, rrayyou do it.
as
on i. t but
ltour
Krauss:I thinkintent.
E1lson:
stop.
with sonre sort of definitiongaining an understanding of
El1son: Yourre thinking rnoreand then vouire guickly goingjust to Frove it a tad and it-
changes? In otherto, or Flaltbe like
canre all the way?
Krauss: Well yeah. Something like that we nright say
Right and ]re t it was back here again. That
words, itrs been approvedthat bank that canre back
is rrinor.
uhole person had to
Krauss: werve had projects where after theyrve been approved and buildingpernits rrere requested, we realized that tha arctri teci^uiui 'lr.r," u."significantly different than what lrou approved. The bricks disappeared.Detailing. goes avra:, and I want to be in i posltlon to sa:, thatrs not erhatthe Planning conrmission approved and r wonlt authorize ii. rf you want topush this, yourre not going to get a pernlt. yourre goin! to 96 back tothe Planning Conrrission. If on the oLher hand they, si1, f-hive this archover here but I need to nove it and tn:7 entrance to the other side of thebuilding. Itrs still going to Iook piettl, much sirriliar bui I have tochange nry landscaping to do lt. That's minor anil we do those kinds ofthings aII the tinre. Ird like to have the authorit!, to do it because rrervebeen doing it.
Pl ann i ng
Decenrbe r
Conrrtrission Meeting
6, 1989 - Page 12
Krauss: Right.
Batzli: Oka]'. The nex t
speci fications. I hate
fron the lot tlne nright
I ine.
Krauss: Wel I
adFrinstrative
BatzI i : Yeah,
corrpliance wi th
to not quite do
conrPl iance. If
but rrould revert, that goes
approval section which sa1,s
hand in hand with the
]rou can't create var iances.
section, substantial comPliance with the plans and
using the word substantial there because 31 feet
be substantially close to 35 feet frotn the lot
I think construction of all site elements shall be in
the plans. Personarly. r think yourre giving peoPle roon
lrhat the:t asked theFr to do there by sal'lng in srrbstantial
I was an attorne]/, I'd love that woral .
Batzli: I think probably' orlr relunctance is that r,re donrt have a good
feeling our.-selves of what ninor and not ninor is. Not necessarily that r,re
don I t trust yorrr j rrdgnrent .
Ellson: The word changes alone would help. Not just seeing it once.
Conrad: I think yrou nentioned something in there that I wotrLd feel a
Iittle bit corqfortable with. Changes but stiIl making the original intent
of rrhat was previous approved. Thatts your call to figrlre orlt lrhat our
intent is. I never know if lrou can interrupt what 7 PeoPIe here say and
also the Cit1, Council becarrse :rou get a difference of oPinion. The intent
is what really ltou have to measure it to. The onl:/ other thing I can think
ln that issue is if you nake a decision, and I donrt want to create
adninstrative stuff but if you informed us $rhat you did. Just sa!' herers
what I did. It's not an agenda itenr. Itrs just for infornration on otrr
part.
Krauss: werd be hapP]' to trlt and keep you posted but sonetinres this would
have, by the time yotr would have known abotrt it, it rral' have already
happened.
EIIson: WelI not like having veto porref but just to keeP us informed as to -
if you're going the right rray we saw the changes or not.
conrad: I donrt know. IrIl let you decide whether vou want. If that's an -a&'rinstrative hassle but.
Krauss: I think initially an]'wa:' so that werre both conrfortable with how
that procedrrre is being hindled, f tfrink thatrs a valid vray of doing it.
conrad: we donrt want to get into the job that !'ou do' Thatrs clear'
Some stuff we just shouldnit see but right now we dontt know what werre
talking about so Brain itrs still :'/ours.
Batzli: In section 2g-Lt4. Fourth line, after the irord ordinance. should -that be to pronrote the intent of this ordinance and/or to protect adjacent
proPer t ies?
Planning
DeceFrber
Copunission Meet ing6, 1989 - Page 13
Krauss: Brian, I knoe, what lrourre trying to get at and I would agree withit. The probrenr we face is that virtually every pran that we see deviatesfor some reason by the time it goes through the City Council but noreinportantl!' b:, the tinre it goes through final plans and specs and getsbuilding perrrrit approval. If they have code cornpliance ieasons forchanglng entrances fron here to there or for enraiging window sizes or forbuilding parapets.
Batzli: Yeah, but ifin conrpliance with theCity Corrnc i I , Directorthink this happens. Iseeing sonrething.
you added construction of the site elerrents shallplans, specs approved by the planning Corurrission,of Planning. f hean itrs a done deal by the tinredonrt know. Ma!,be thatts something that f rnr not
Enrnring: I think lrour re absolutel], right. I
corrpl j.ance to mean srrbstantial conrpli;nce butdeveloper substantial coFrpliance, hers going
Why give it to him?
Batzli: The next question is, r think we need to reword the approved bythe Planning Conrrission, City Council or Director of planning lo ttrel, a6n'tsa:/ well, we did according to the planning Conrrnission ana rei:.t1, tfre!should have been doing it according to the Clt:' Couneil. I donit kn-ow whatour nanre has to be on there unless the Cit], Coirncil doesn't tevlew ourwork. r donit know rrhat the other pranning coFutrission people think aboutthat. In other words, itrs the Corrncil i s final say and yoi: have theauthorit:, to nake nrinor changes but they shouldn,t be doing what we toldthen. The:, should be doing what the CiLy Council totd thei.
be
I
think you can inter r uptif you're going to give theto feel like hers got leerra:r.
EIIson:
Batzl i :
Conrad:
In case
Yeah.
So !'ou
there was a flip flop
ExactI]r.
want it City Counc i 1?
or sorrething?
Planning Conrrqission needs to be onsonething, Irn perfectly willing to
do you ever go back tothe j.ntent for sonethingCouncil? Of course I guessthey approved it and the:,Hinutes.
Batzli: Yeah. I don,t knor that thethere. Again, if I havenrt thought ofback off on that one.
Conrad: That sounds okav.
Errrrrings: The only thing I can think of there,Planning Commission discussion to find out t hatiras that nraybe didnrt get discussed at tbe Citythe City Council rrould be adopting that too ifcould still 9o back to the planning Corrmission
Krauss: Let me give you another for instance because this has happened torne on a nunber of occas i ons
- lrhere ]rou night approve sonrething and- it getshung up at the Councll and it goes through repiateil changes. - a1, the finethe final version corres through, peopre iren,t thinking itraigtrt. weirerooking at a different set of issues and the finar plai deviates fronr theone lrou approved but not because anybody intended it to deviate but because
Pl ann i ng
Decenrber
Conrnission Meeting5, 1989 - Page 14
Is this in all districts?
In alt non-single fanily and duplex
Where is that l imi ted?
The site plan section only aPPlies
Okay. Agrlcultrrral areas are also
soFrehow it changed along the wa!/. Yorr then go back and sa!/ rdell,
not rrhat the Planning Conu.rission approveil and it fell through the
the Cit)r Corrncil and we still lvant to enforce. what the Planning
Comrrission required is still binding upon you. We never forgave
reqrrirenrent. It just got lost in the wash.
that I s
cracks at
tha t
EMeings: Except one thing ltout re saying there isn't accurate. lile donrt
approve anything.
Batzli: we recon$end approval.
Erhart: Nothing we do is binding.
Ermings: so thatts a problenr. I don't know. It h,orrld seenr to ne that if
the Planning coFarission discusses sorrething and there was a rationale for
inrposing a condition and the citl' council then adoPted that condition. r
guess thelr'd also be adopting the rationale so ltou corrld alwalts go back to
the planning Comrrission l'tinutes but our action doesnit have, our action is
onl), a recorqmending action so I guess naybe 1,ou could take it out of there.
Batzli: SoFrething to think about anltwaY PauI . 2A-L]-6 (b), the metal on
building exteriors shall be limited to trirq. Does that include accessor)'
bui ld ing s?
Krauss: Yes.
BatzIi:
Krauss:
Batzl i :
Krauss:
Batz1 i :
districts, 1tes.
to those.
excluded?
Krauss: Right.
Batzli: okay. That was nry rnain concern rere those tno things. t'!a ke sure
that those werenit included. t{aintenance of site landlscaplng, 2g-ll'l . How
long can you reguire that these thlngs are growing? That they're rePlaced?
How 1on9 are you intending this naintenance to occur?
KrauEs: I viei, it aa a Permanent requirement.
Batzli: This is like Perpetual?
KraugE: Yes.
Batzli: sohething about that just bothers I\e. I nrean I like it. I like
the concept but I mean, stuff changes. what rrould they have to do if the!'
wanted to relandscaPe? The:trd have to cone in with a different landscaping
plan?
PI ann i ng
DeceFrber
Conrrnission Meeting6, 1989 - Page 15
Krauss: That gets into the adninstrative thing again. rf sonrebody canre inand said I want to cut down a stand of mature irees, werd probabl:, have afit about that. rf sonrebody capre to us and said werve got a new landscaperrrho wants to conrpletell' change the bushes around and pui in sone new treesand hove soFre stuff, werd probabl], just say fine. Go aheaat and do it andjust give us a copy of the plan for our fires. But r think the intent,when you.and the city council approve a project, it,s not your intent ihatthat project will look any different in 3 y-ars than it does the da], after-itrs built. rt's !,our intent that it look like that for the rife oi theproject or be inrproved upon.
Batzli: I like that. Ma:rbe we need to clarifyr that this is forever andevet then. r thought this was part of the landscape financiar guarantees rguess r.rhen r read it through the first tine. rtrs crear to ne now that itisn't but rrhen r read it r was initiarry thinking that this was for thefirst year and that this is part of that process. r understand retaininghralls now then. Those are nr:, questions.
conrad: okay, good ones. Just two quick ones. The use of nretar onexteriors. so therers not a good, r grress rrm a rittre bit concernedthat one. Therets not a high qualit:, nretal that rre would allorr? Wedontt know of an1'tbing right now thai seenrs to heet?
wi th
j ust
Krauss:You know the technology keeps changing.
Conrad: Butqualit:, tha t therer s nothing thatlooking for?
toda:'
werre
we know that realL:, tdould heet the
aluminurr panel above the windons we could have was
Krauss: Irve not seen it. Erankry rrve come across one building in thelast I years that r thought warranied a variance frorn this standard and rwrote this ordinance so it- wouldnrt reguire a variance and that was, ifyourre fanriliar with it, !hgl9:" the Key Nissan deatership up on Hw], 12which was a wooden front building and t-hey wanted to rrake it a nruchcrassier- looking operation. The ordinance that r had to work with at thattinre prohibited alr nretal except for glass curtainwalr construction. rf:tou look, it's a burnished aru'rinurh oi brushed alulrinunr with a refrectorglass and. it's a very prett!, Iooking facade that the!, strrck up there whichwas a technorog:, that hadntt been anticlpated when tle ordinance was wordedthat ira:,. r recopmended it and it got a- variance to be approved but theway this is worded, that sort of a building rrould nave ueen arrowed.
Ellson: How can :,ou sa:r that woutd be allowed this tihe?
Krauss: Because thatthe trirr nra ter ial .
conrad: There are, or at least r think it is, roofi.ngs that are rearly thefront of the buitdings. The]' realL:' dontt cover the ioof but tbel,ire ihe,werr we've got them in downtonn chan in the redevero[rFrent and that'sprobably, in that case thatrs probabl:' wood brrt theri are hetal roofs thatare verlr attractive. They look J.ike copper. Thel, probably are a copper,so what is that?
Planning
DeceFrber
Coru'rission Meet i ng6, 1989 -. Page 16
Krauss: That is true and this does not, I guess the wa:' I envision it,
rraybe we can clarifl' that so it doesn't appl:/ to roofing nater j.als.
Standing seah netal roofs are attractive and it was on the Crossroads Bank.
I think the:'tre going to use it ver:' effectively.
Conrad: Or copper canopies. Therer s another ease t here Irve seen that
used archi tectur a1I:t and thatrs realI:, attractive so therer s something
that, these rrords seenr to exclude those things so ma1,be you could clean
that up a llttle bit. I think the intent ls right. Then Irm real confused
abont the Section 2s-L13. r reall], need sorre heIP there to reword that and
figure out r,rha t 2g-LSg (b) is. Those are BU, only two. I think generalllt
this is real gooil .
Batzli: I have one other. The use of the term, and this was actrrall], the
biggee and it was np front so I nlssed it. The trse of the terrn building
rather than structul-e. Is that intentional? If !'ou have the Code in front
of :iou and yorr look up structure, r'rr:ch broader and it includes building but
it includes sheds. It includes a lot of other things that I think we want
to include.
Krauss: We can convert that over.
Olsen: ...talking about it all the wa]t through?
Batzli: yeah. Just the construct a brrilding 'ondet 2A-LA7. Under
structure includes building, fence, anl'thing constructed, erected'
know that, I guess I donrt know if we want to go that broad but it
to he that we wanted to go broader than just building.
Olsen: Fences and everything?
I donr t
seeFred
Batzli: Thatr s the big question. Structure nray be a litt1e
but I think building isnrt broad enough. I think the intent
things other than hrhat you would think of as a luilding.
Krauss: Yeah, because werve had sonre Problehs with the
structure in other sections of the ordinance. Itrs too
Ellson: Quasi str ucture.
Krauss: The site pl.an covers ever]rthing thatrs
so r think it's actually covered there. werre
l{e're talking about the site. That structural
have sorre probJ.errrs in here with it.
bit too broad
is to include
definition of
aIl encompassing.
not the pr incip).e brri lcl ing
talking about the building.
definition that we have does
Batzl i ! Yeah.
structure.
we alnost need something in the middle. A kind of
Batzli: I just thought of for instance where it sa]'s move a building to
an!, lot nithin the cit!'. well what if thefr &oved a shed? A big shed. A
big rnetal shed. Get as craz:, as ]rou want but the PlobleFr in the structrrre
is that we talk about a btriJ.ding and a shed being different things and I
Pl ann i ng
Decerrber
Conrnrission Meeting6, 1989 - Page 17
think people erould have good
the definition of structrrre.
tough luck.
a].-guFrents that the!r're
I'nr Froving a shed but
listed separatelynot a building and
und er
so
Batzli: No
want except
Emmings: Is there a definition under build in9?
An!' other kind of building that you
trl,ing to get things
over a meeting is notconing up so that wiII
Conrad:bring it
Krauss:
togethergoing to
be f ine.
Enutrings: So groved.
EIlson: And I'11 second it.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AT"TENDITENT TO AMEND
RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT ORDINANCE TO
Public Present:
Narre
No. Jo Ann and I have been spending timefor the spring rrrsh and I think holding ithrlrt that. We donrt have real big agendas
Not building b:, itself.building bl' itsel f.
323L
322L
okay. An:r other coFurrents? would it be wise to table this andback? Any rush to get this through to Cit!, Council?
Conrad: I think because we asked lrou to change enorrgh words in enorrghsections. that it probabl!' rrakes sense. I thi;k if 1,5u gave us a real, Idonrt think it'|s going to clog the next agenda. rt snorita race throughhere. Give us one final chance to take a rook at it. rs there a notion totable this?
Enrnrings nroved, ElLson seconded to table the zoning ordinance Anrendnent toanend the cit!' code, Division 6, site plan Review to revise the procedures,expand on developnrent standarils and require financial guarantees forlandscaping and other-site inrproverhenta so staff car, rnike the nrodificationsoutrined b!, the pranning co,rrission. All voted in favor and the motioncarried.
THE CITY CODE TO MODIFY THE
CLARIEY LOT DEPTH REQUI REI.IENTS.
Addr ess
l.!a r ],
Ray
Jo Moore
Roe t tger
Jo Ann Olsen Presented the staffthe public hearing to order.report on the iten. Chairnan Conrad call
Dartmouth Dr ive
Dartnouth Dr lve
Planning
DeceFrber
Coprrrission Meet i ng6, 1989 - Page 18
Conrad: oka:., thanks Jo Ann. It is a public hearing so h,er 11 open it upfor public conments.
Conrad: She didn't pass the letter on but she ditl caII me.
Mary Jo lloore: Oka]t.
Mar], Jo Moore.
Dartmorrth Dr ive
subprit a I et ter
pass it on?
Conrad: But itrs good to 90donrt think anybod:r else has
Uar!, Jo Moore: WeIl it was
you'd Iike.
Conrad: It worrld be real good,
have included it in our packets
Good evening. M:, nane is Mar1, Jo Moore. I live at 323I
which is lakeshore property on Lake Minnewashta. I didto Ursula Dinrler that I asked that she pass on. Did she
throrrgh what :'ou said in :rour letter becar:se I
heard it.
Ellson: Brrt Ursrrla did contact ),ou and give ]tou the context?
a 4 page letter. I have it in rr1, purse if
if it had gone to city staff the:, h,ould
brrt because . . .
eas:, to do a 4 pager
the Cit!, get a coP],
Jo Ann, do lrou have
Conrad: Trieal to over the phone and itrs not
phone. Brrt anywa]' I think it's real wise that
letter by the tirrre this gets to Citl' Corrncil.
of the letter? So nrake srrre that she gets it.
Marlt Jo Moore: That Jo Ann gets it? Okay. At an]' rate, the basis of the
Ietler, without going through the whole 4 Pages, I live between two
lakeshore associations one of which I'rt a member. I'm considered an
onshore nember. I do not use the property. I do Pa:, dues on it for
nraintenance and insurance an(l that sort of thing. As even a dues paying
neFrber, I have difficulty enforcing the provisions of the association, i.e.
let's clean uP the docks. The!'rre falling down. Letis fix then' Letrs
clean up the property. Yotl canrt enforce these things. The People that
are usi;g thia lake propertl, are not looking at it. The!'rre going and
the]r're juFrping in their boat and the:rrre taking off and if they can have a
posE thal's sturd:, enough to tie their boat to, thatrs all their concerned
wittr. The:' donrt clean the beach. The other association which is a 30
foot lakefront property is onto the east of me. Itrs inbett een Ra!' and me
and there' s this 30 foot section of beach that is a disaster. Ray keeps
his property cleaned up. I keeP nr!, proPert!, cleaned rrP. This section is a
disaster.
over theof 1'oUra coP:,
Eimings: Is that the Shores?
!.lar:, Jo Moore: Thatrs Sterling Estates is to the east of ne and I have
ltinnewashta Shores $rest of ne so Irn inbetseen these tYro, member of one.
One thing that also rather rrPsets Fre was that this Pierce ProPerty, i
wasnrt aware of it. I tr!, to follow Lrhatrs going on in this citl'. Irnt
t orking full tiFre though. I canrt show rrp every evenlng that sonething is
going on. r was not notified. Ra!' was not notifietl . But I did notice ln
PI ann i ng
Decenbe r
Corrrrrission Meeting
5, 1989 - Page 19
the paper that a prrblic hearing was going to be herd on Novenrber r3th. Rayand r showed up for the public hearing and found out that it was in factherd on Novenber 6th, one week earlier without any rescinding notice in theVillager or an!' notice to the residents of the lake. I guesi I wonrt getinto the Pierce ProPertlt since that lsnrt the subject of this issrre. i,r"read through the ProPosal and in the anall,sis that has come throrrgh, werreequating private propert]r, the DNR regulations for private properLl, to arecreationar beachlot that is for the benefit of how man1, peopre? rn thePierce case it's 15 residents. I donrt think :/ou can take- a S0 x IO footpiece of,property thatts for a private residence, who is restricted r nightadd, to 3 boats. The!, nust be in their names. I hean we have noreregulations on the lake than these recreationar beachlots. yourre takingand egrrating this DNR regulation to a beachtot. I don,t think, thatdoesn't nrake sense to ne because therers too nan:r peopre. Another thing isa sand beachlot is generally speaking a swi:'rnring- beach area. Thatrs nofsorrrepLace where !rou're going to stici a dock. it,s unsafe. you haveswirurrets j.n and out of the dock so I donrt see an:, correlation between thisDNR regulation and the beachlot. r al.so feer thai the 1g0 foot depth, t,vebeen invorved in this since day one. since they started ih" "o.r.1r" on thelake and were investigating lt. This was to precrude deveropers c-orring in,buf ing therers an awfrrl lot of farmland around thatrs in rran1, acres. itey'buy it -rrp- and the!, stick one rittre rot on the rake that eveiybodl, gets t'ouse and then the], deverop around it and it creates a hess. es ls- sfated inhere in the anallrsis, the city has no control over these associations. Ias a meprber of one association have no irrpact so the deveroper rf,alks awa]r.Hers done his bit. He,s sold his property. He goes. The iesidents theiethen do whatever the:, i{ant to do and it's-the otier neighboring peopre irrathave to tr]' to control this and it has created disaster in *1, irrltu-n"e.rrve tried to work with -neighbors regarding the sterring Estates. Askedthenr to- get together. anq m not par[. of tieir associatio"l to work thinqsout. Thew wonrt alo it becarrse theyr re arr afraid thelrrre going to 1;;; '-their little access so the!' won,t lven talk to one "n6ther] wn"t else inhere? At an!, rate, r think there should be nore teeth-;ui into theordinance rrhere the Cit:, does have control over the assiciations and theirregulatj.ons as opposed to etirrrinating that section entirery. Again, rthink the Lga foot, it shorrld be a 'rini'ruh 10g foot depth it an! on" point.r as a lakeshore owner,- if-r bought a piece of propert! and r wis goiirg to'build, I_trr reqrrired to build Uack 75 feet fronr lhe-ord-inarv high ,it"r-nark. That doesntt mean one corner of nry propert:, has to ie 7S feet backbut the rest of it can angre into the laie. it's-. rninimunr 75 and fro.rthat point back. With_the pierce -propert:', we have taken city propertlr.The city right-of-wa!, for the road-and added that into their Aeptfr. Iijust, that is not 190 feet there and I think that itrs a definilerequirenrent that we have to have specific rqinimuFr nidths and lengtns. asfar as the docks, the proposed rec6nrmended language treie, you sa! a dockever:' 200 feet. Does that mean 2oa feet, hereis i dock? isg teet herers adock. 2gg feet herers a dock or are they altogether and how r,,an1, boats canbe lroored on each one of these docks? i thin[ therers an anfur-Iot ofcrean up wourd have to be done to the reconmended ranguage ina agiin,-iilonr t tbink 2s-263 should be deleted. r think it strorira-ue expanded so thecity has more control over the association rures. And of cour.se, as lroucan probabl:r terl, rrd just as soon elinrinate beachrots altogether. ihaE.sall I have to sa:r. Thank :rou.
Ra:, Roettger: I've talked about thj,s before. The nahe is nay Roettger. Ilive next to l.lar:' Jo Moore. 3221 Dartnouth Drive. I think a couple of
tlrpes of property would come into Frind. One would be a crescent shaped,
half nroon lot that corrld be jrtst like a crescent and you could say, :,oucould Freasure along the periphery of that on a curve and conre up with 100feet. I think you have to define it a little bit more. Another one would
be kind of a triangrrlar piece such as the outlot is between Marlt Jo and
rnyself which tends to expand 30 feet iride and then tends to expanal a llttle
bit. Like Joe Bo1,er said, there are 60 feet out there. WeII, 6g feet out
in the lake sorreplace brrt people I guess dontt quite rnechanically
understand how sone of these thlngs develoP. tlary Jo was t rong on onepoint. L:eaIIy anr the caretaker of that plece of Property between and
I spend several da1's picking and prrlling up Purple loosestrife which had
developed but trlr as I Fra:t to try to get soFre help, thelt use it and walk
arra:r. I don't think anybodlr's ever picked rrp a beer can. The south facing
Iot is going to pick up aI1 this stuff sooner or later. Thel' just donrt do
it and I think there should be something that someone cotrlcl do to sa], he:,,
letts straighten up the docks, clean rrp the Property, :rorl know ilrpose sorre
restrictions on then. r think an!, concession along that line of a
beachlot, yorr shorrld have sone teeth in it like Marlt Jo says in case lt
gets too bad but the property she's referring to rras beautiful . They rip
rapped it. The1, dredged it. Put up docks. Ever:'thingrs straight and then
one ]rear they just leaned over and the:trve been that way for 4 or 5 lteats.
I rneln it's teirible and I donrt understand why the]' donrt clean it up.
Conrad: Paul, yrhat is the solution for a problelq like that?
Olsen: Not cleaning it up?
nuisance? Is it a public nuisance? Ca1l the City
kept up?
Conrad: Yeah. Is it
and sa:r it's not being
a
Olsen: With weeds and
1ot. It corrld be. Howit as a nui sance.
things I ike that?
far we'd get wi tb
Thatrs just like an!' other
IrFr not sure but we could do
that corrld get into the
loosestrife, that might
Yeah
tha t
Ellson: Things like beer cans and strrf f like that,
water and that would be some gooal reason...Prrll the
be a little hard to tr!' to weasle in.
Olsen: We do with obnoxious lreeds though.
Conrad: Is the hopreowners association registered?
OLsen: I donrt knon if theyrre all
vretre not up to date with who's the
keep rrp irith that but even a lot of
president is or sho to contact.
registered brrt a lot of then donrt,president. A lot of times we tr:t to
the nehbers donrt know who the
Conrad: Yeah, it I s real inforPral .
Planning Conutrission Meeting
DeceFrber 5, 1989 - Page 20
Mar:, Jo Moore:
on it.I can put up a dock on m:' property and f can have IO boats
Olsen: Yourre linrited to 5 I think.
Planning Conrlrission lleeting
December 6, 1989 - Page 21
Irtar!' Jo Hoore: Sterling Estates, that isnrt even organized into anassociation. We have deeded rlghts to this piece of propertl,...
Batzli: So if ]rou rrere to notlf:, then, what would you do? Send aregistered letter to everlr person?
Conrad: And then basicall!, rrould sa1, if nothing is done within 30 dalrs,the citlz worrrd undertake the clean-up and charge lt back to the lndividuar.
Ra:' Roettger: see the danger kind of is, rrm part of the probren becauser,also own part of that outtot. rf r donrt clean it up, but everybody justsits back and.. .
Etnnings: Let r s :rorr do it.
Ra!, Roettger: cut the grass anal clean it up and everything else. The rearproblenr is, you suddenly beconre the enenry of arl ttre otrrer-peopre becarrseif you say something, then ord nran Joe Boyer...telrs n.e rlm serfish. youknow, how do you handle it. Itrs kind of-like take it arra!, brrt f thini b1,the, way, Mar:, Jo brought rtp a point when she said the deptit, does itlnclude the right-of-way or does it not?
Olsen: Now what we,re proposing.
Ra!, Roettger: So itrs all part of the propertlr.
Mar!' Jo lloore: The one point...
Ra:, Roettger: The 190 foot depth, is that perpendicular to the...
Conrad: Basically :'es, except for where the dock goes.
orsen: These ar:e both 1gg feet, or even more than 1r0 feet baslca1ly...
Ra:' Roettger: r asked a question of the dock as proposed there, it lookslike it's nade to acconrnrodate 3 boats but actua1ll, ciu:.d handle Z.
Olsen: That is a whole dlfferent process. The:, still have to go throughtbe whole conditional use which is another...
Ra]' Roettger: Are they restricted to 3 boats?
Olsen:. If thelr have enough area, lrou have to have intiall-y 3g,0gg and thenan additional 20,AO6 and then I'ou have to add t}le 2gg foot of iake frontageor additional 26O feet to have more docks. Right no, the!, are onl1r, agaiiwerre not reviewing that right nor but thevrre-onry propo-tlng one iock-with3 boats.
Pl ann i ng
Decerlber
Comnrission I'1ee t i ng5, 1989 - Page 22
Moore:
want.
I nean you conld potentially with I dock have as nan!' boats
But it's restr icted .
breaking the law. you could do lt but yourd be breaking
Absolutel]r. Absolutel:r. There is a linrit and now itrs escaped rreis lt 5 absolute?
Mar:1, Jo
a S )tOrl
Conrad:
Erunings:
the law.
Conr ad :
because,
You'd be
Ehftings: No, itrs 3
Conrad: Itrs 3 for an individual propert:, but for a beachlot, I think we
have granted up to geez, I don't know, 6 per dock.
Olsen: Eor a recreational beachlot therets a naximunr of 9 overnight boats.
Conrad: So there is an absolute. And I think thatrs prett!' weII taken
care of. we beat that one up a whole Iot. Irm not real interested in
going back throrrgh it. It rnakes sense based on size restrictions and what
bave you. It does nrake done kind of sense.
Ral, Roettger:
nran]r?
On the Pierce propert:t, are there 1g lots or 12 lots or how
Ralt Roettger: Can :tou accoFunoilate...with the approval?
that a condition of rrhat lots theY have...
guess that would be mlt suggestion lrou know to Put a
Olsen: Yorr could nake
Ra], Roettger:
number .
welI, I
olsen: As far as the boats and I donrt know whether werd put a restriction
on who could use it.
Ra!, Roettger: No, but the nuFrber. Is there a possibilit:' of doing that?
conrad: That's a different issue than we have tonlght.
olsen: I think there was like 15. The nunber has escaped Fre but itrs more
than Ig. But they have been saying just three of the lots along Lake
Minnewashta would have rights. Again, thatrs sonething that will be
reviewed.
Er&ings: I rh not
know if :rou fol ks
b:, an:, means and
that regulate the
l{arlr Jo Moore: I
Enrrnings: I didn't
sure, rrerre kind of talking cross Purposes here. I donrt
understand that this ls not the whole beachlot ordinance
that there are other sections of the beachlot ordinance
nuprber of boats and aI1 kinds of other things.
realize that.
know lf you did.
Mar!, Jo Moore: But
adopted anil passed,
I think these measurenrents, when the ordinance wasthese measrrrerhents were cons iderabt]r. . .
conrad: For severar reasons. The 100 is there to buffer it. The 10g isa buffering rrechanisrr and in the case that we sent to the city council,which they haven't acted on, the street becanre part of the buifer so wefelt prett:, cor\fortable. Again, fTourve got to rrrake sure, the ke:, prenrisehere of the beachlot is to buffer the suirounding neighbors. If we feerthat thatrs done, f donrt care if it,s, IA0 is aiUitrirl,. It could be 98.rt corrld be 119. rt could be a drlveway. rt courd be a hiII. tt could bea street. r donrt care what. r rrant a buffer there so in the cases whereyou have a street that acts like a brrffer that keeps it frortr the neighbors,thatf s fine. So the LTO in nr1' nrind is jrrst arbltrlrlr. If ther.er s a br:ffeithere, thatrs the botton line so I'rr noi convinced that 100 feet, rrmtelring you where rrm at on this but that's the rationate tor the 1g0 wasbuffering. The other part of the rationale was enorrgh area for thosePeople who use it to recreate so that it t{asnr t uncomfortable for then. sothe developer doesnrt go out and oversell the property and sa!, everlrbod:,owns-it. They get there and l,orr pack 300 peopie -on a-postage staprp. Butthat's taken care of with sone of t!r,e 2grgog lquare fo6t r',iiinrur,1s ind the3q. There are some other things stuck in there-, tne a fooi per personwhich the staff is recohhending taking out. that rdas intended to take careof those lssrres and r ma:r have sone c5ncerns with the staitis perspectlveon that because that doesnrt sorve some of the rear inteni of lne -ordinance
so r grress thatrs the background to that l0o feet that r kno!, of and itrsthe logic that nakes sense to ne and I want to carrl, that logic orrt inhowever we rrodify the ordinance that te have tonighi.
Ra], Roettger: Wh:, else woulil they put the lg0 feet in?
Ra:, Roettger: Yes, lrour ordinance is for now and inprecisely the problerr ere have. With all these lotsput a boat down there. years ago we fought it.
the future brrt that r santl everybod!, wants to
Conrad: The ordj.nance does take care of the quantit!, of boats. It stillis going- to be a probrenr for yorr. Most of the- tin,e it b""o."" a probrerrrfor the beachlot people thenselves becarrse usrrally if therers 20 iots, only6- peopre or 3 people have docking rights. Then s6me peopre r.eave thenrthere overnight and then it becomes i probrenr of patritring therhserves sothere ar..e soFre
-
probl erhs . An:r other puLtic comrnenls? Is tiere a motion toclose the public hear ing ?
Batzli moved, Erlson seconded to close the pubric hearing. Ar1 voted infavor and tbe protion carried. The public h-aring was cl5sed.
Erhatt: From what r see the object of this discussion tonight is simpry toarter the ordinance to make it absolutely clear rrhatrs arroied and rhitisnot allo$red so therer s nothing subjectivl to it. There can be nointerpretation because this.it pro6abll' the single tfring-in this cit:, rrhereeverybody rrants to try to fit their tittre rot Into sorr;how neet theordinance and so apparentll, rrerve got a phrase ln here thatrs vague. So
Planning Conrnri ss i on Meeting
Decenrber 6, 1989 - Page 23
ehat :tourre trying to do is clariff it, correct?
OIsen! Correct.
Erharts Thatrs the purpose of this rrhole discussion?
Olsen: The whole purpose.
Erhart: And so, lf you feel that this does that, without getting into a
big discussion of trhat an:' of these dimensions, irhether theyi re right or
trong, I'nr all in srrpport of clariff ing it. I don't think yourd ever cone
to a conclusion on what the right sized tots are. I'n sure this same
arguDrent will go on for :'ears and :iears. So if that's what the prrrpose is,
then I worrld go to the reconuhendation that you have and the wording and
suggest that that part of the sentence rrhere it says rneasured both at the
ordinary high water rrark and, is really redundant I believe in that if 1'otr
have 200 foot lake frontage, obviousl:, it's going to be at least 50 foot
ride at the high water nark. That Fralt be an incorrect...
Olsen: But now with the depth of LqA feet.
Erhart: Itm not suggesting :'ou take that out. I'n suggesting that it just
sirnpll' read, no dock shall be pernitted on a recreational beachlot tlnless
it's at least 2Og feet lake frontage and a width at an]' point 190 feet
landward frorrr the ordinary high water mark of not less than 50 feet. I
donrt think 1'ou need that phrase where it salis neasrlred both at the
ordinarlz high water nrark and at a Point 100 feet in. I think itrs just a
I i ttle cleaner.
Krauss: I think the on
Council, I forget vrho i
a situation rrhere !,ou h
rneasureFrent at one poin
reason we ilid that is because
was. sot\ebodlr suggested that
a narrow penninsrrla going out
but otherwise was only 1g feet
at the Ci t!'
they rranted to avoid
that net that
wide and should
to have, to sa ti s f:,
have that 50
Itn tr!,i ng to
Iyt
adt
this little pimple of ProPerty or whatever, allow them
the requirerrrent f or the dock.
Erhart: so :Toutre saying ltou measured the lake frontage essentiall!' :rou
folIow the actual contour of the shoreline?
olsen: Right. The hra:, that this is written requires :/ou to
feet and I00. I donrt know if you take orrt those words how,
read it the ifa:t your re doing it.
Erhart: AII I'm saying, it alreaillt reads ]rourve got
the lake front and thatts alread!, there in the first to have 290 feet at
phrase.
olsen: We're saying you have to have a 2gg foot wlde piece that has a lgg
foot depth. You could still have th'at 2gg foot lake frontage but not
necessarily Lgg foot.
Erhart: How could :rou have 2O0 foot, maybe PauI can describe that but I
was wondering how can :iorr have a 2gg foot lake frontage and not have 5g
feet at the ordinarl, high water mark?
Planning Corrnrission [eeting
Deceprber 6, 1989 - Page 24
PIdnn i ng
Decerrber
Cornnrission Meeti ng
6, 1989 - Page 25
Enrnrings: You canrt.
O1sen: See yourre got over 5gg feet of lake frontage but ]rou donrt have a
depth of Lgg feet for 50 feet for the whole thing. What werre doing isrequiring that for an area. You have a 59 foot width that has a 100 feet.
Erhart: Irh not saying yorr take orrt the 50 feet at the I00 foot in. I'njust saying if you renove the phrase the 50 feet at the ordinaryr high waternark, ]'outve essentiall!, got that rsith lhe 2AO feet frontage requirertrent.
olsen: But I think it still needs that.
Krauss:
Fret thethat.
In itrs
fr on tage
u cottld havefeet deep or
sonreth i ng
soFrething
Frost extreme case though,requirenrent that was onl],:ro
3
tha tIike
Erhart: That rreasured linear Iy?
Krauss: Right. And then extends out lnto the rrater r00 feet but it,s onlv2 feet wide when it gets to that point. Frankly Tirq it tasn,t particularl!our issue but rre were trying to anticipate irhat the councir dirictive was.
Erhart: That eras the only point. Again, if this nrakes it unargueable,then fine. I thj.nk itrs just fine.
EmFrings: I think the language is real confrlElng. I think I understandwhat theyt re sal,ing but I think the language is real confusing. Irnr notsure that right off the bat that the ordinince needs to be chinged but ifwe tr], to r^rork with it, rtcl . rike to propose a couple of alternaf ives nral,bejust for discussion if nothing else. I think rhal rearlv nrakes thisconfusing is_when you sa:, at i point LOg feet 1andward 1'6u've got to have awidth of 50 feet. you can'it have a iridth at a point. i trrir,x-th.t rearlyscrews :,ou rrp so I think one thing :rou could do there would be to say, I'dbe inclined to write this as follows. I would sa:' no dock shall bepernritted on an!, recreationar beachrot unress it has at least zaa feet ofLake frontage and a prinimulr of 3g rggg square feet in area. Ird starttlgTe: Pulling that up fronr down below. period. Then I,d say inaddition, there rnust be an area 50 feet in rridth at the high water nrark and5g feet in width along a line 190 feet landward of the high water rrrark.sonrething.like that. Define that area but define it in terhs of put thatas an additional. I donrt think that quite does it because lrou want tomake, srrre it rines up but r think we courd, if we work on it for a rrinute,I think we could come rrp with some language. Then I.d saY that ]rou can.thave, go right on hrhere !,ou are. No hore than I dock ma!, be erelted on arecreational beachlot for each 2gg feet of lake frontage-and if an:,additional , there shall be an area requirement of an additionaI 2s.ssgsquare feet for each additional dock. put those 2 ideas together. Ithink i.t wourd help crean it up but the only thing, then a sicond approach.That rrorrld be nry first choice. M:r aecond choice would be that we kind oftake Ladd's idea and say that ere wonrt allow any docks on a recreationalbeachlot rrnless it has 2AA feel. of lake frontage, 30,ggg square feet
nrininrunr area and a buffer frorn nelghboring randowners. uow the problenr.s
Planning
Decerrber
Connission Meeting5, L989 - Page 26
going to be defining that buffer and we could say sorrrething like, thisbuffer Fra:, consist of topograph:,, streets, or the depth of the propert],itself. so they Freet this requirement, thj.s kind of a requirer,ent and thenthatrs a forrr of a brrffer but the buffer rnight be other things. Then wejrrst have to do it on a case by case basis after that. But that might do abetter job of getting at the intent. Nord this particular one, the Fierceone, which I look at fron rry horrse, I know it when I drive b!' there prettyoften and it's not only buffered fron. First of aIl, the properties behindit are the people that are using it. Fron back there it,s-buifered notonl1, b1' the road but b:, topograph:, because the land drops down so Fruch andreally when yourre up on that road, itrs tougb to see down there. I don'tfind this one bit offensive. I don,t find it offensive looking at it fronthe lakeside either. However, Minnewashta Heights rrd have sone conrrentsabout and the Shores and Sterling Estates but that,s a policing problemthat will nevet solve. Itrs just beyonil hope I think and Lake Minnewashtaunfortunatell, is blessed with a great nuprber of these.
Ma,:]t Jo l.loore: Put a little bit nrore teeth in the ordinance. Butthe ordinance also...it wasn't just a buffer fron the neighbors, irestrict lake useage. I mean thatrs one of the reasons, in fact icalled I think a lake useage ordinance...
I thinkt was tot was
Ennings: I donrt knoe, the!' thorrght theyrd restrict lake useage by putting
in beachlots.
l,la r:' Jo l.loore: You donit dunrp 20 faFrilies that arenrt living on the lakerrith 2g boats into the water with a 59 foot piece of propert:'.
Errnrings: That I s what a beachlot does.
Mar:r Jo Moores Yes, and thatis wh]r the:, put in the restrictions in passing
the ordinance to prevent... .
Enurrings: The other thing about the beachlots on l.linnewashta, thel"ve
clearly grorrn. The intensit], of the use has grown in the 6 lrears Itve beenout on the lake. There are rlrore boats on then now than there ever have
been but this stuff is jrrst inpossible to police. Itrs not iFrpossible. Itjust would exhaust the Cit)r's resources. But an:rera:r, that would be the
second approach that Ird suggest. Ird do one or the other and I think it
would maybe help nake nore sense. I feel llke the t,hole thing is prettl'
arbitrary. Irnr prett:/ Fruch for, I guess if I had to prake a decisiontonight, Ird sa:' there ought to be a rrinimunr of IOO feet along the wholething. There shouldn't be ang' point at which is less than 109 feet frorrthe ordinar:, high rrater ttark. That would be my basic Position except
irhen I tr:' to apply that to this property, it doesnrt hake sense to me. Ithink a beachlot on thls propert], is fine. f donrt think that land has anyother use than for this and I donit think, I think the rrse that the:,rreproposing is not very lntense. If itrs rrsetl the wa:, they're saying it willbe used, I donrt think itrs going to be a detrihent to the lake so I
guess I'd like sone flexibilitf in here so that irhen we have a proposal
like this that seens reasonable, we corrld approve it without appl:ring ahard rule that therers got to be Lgg feet in depth ever!,where. I knoe,there are properties to the south of this one that donrt have aII the
Pldnning
DeceFrber
Conrtrlssion tteeting
6, 1989 - Page 27
depth. The:rrre also up, their elevation is up closer to the road so theydonrt have the screening that this one does by topographlr. One is DaveHeadla and other neighbors of his to the south and r can werl inagine thatonce the], decide to subdivide their properties, they, re going to wantbeachlots down there too because itis going to rrake a hell oi a differencein the value of their propert]'. Those I donrt think should be approved.Those Ird be opposed to because they're narrotver along the 1ake. Theydonrt have the frontage and thelr donrt have the buffei. This one IiFr notopposed to.
Mar:, Jo.Moore: If lrou change the ordinance so itrs lgg feet to 50 feet,then this propert], hrouldnrt have LgA feet and I know he's got at least 20g.
Errnrings: No. yourre Fri sunder stand ing whatrsfeet on the lake.here. Yourve got to have 2OO
Harlt Jo Moores
Eru\ings: r dontt kno$r. rf he does, then hers got a right to corqe in analask for a beachlot but wetre saylng therers got to be 2-gg feet. we're notchanging that to 59 feet. we,re just changiig the "."u-irrui has to be Lggfeet deep. of that 2gO feet, ont1, SO feet hai to be IO0 feet deep. youunderstand? 5g feet in width has to be Lgg feet deep.
olsen: Your second reconu\endation, thatrs something r was looking atbecause.that rearr!, is the intent. you just have i[. buffered and thatseparation but then r had a dif f icrrtt tiie becarrse irhen ere tark aborrt thebuffering, we usuarr]r, we are tatking about the separation or tn" street
!r]I.tlten yourve got adjacent properties. I was ha;ing a hard tinredetlning. _ Yow are lrou going to buffer or define so lrorr donrt mean this butlrou lrean this or do you hean this?
conrad: Yeah, :'ou do nean the sldes too. And thatrs why you don,t like...
Olsen: So this doesn,t really appl:, to that.
Eturings: Maybe yorr have to have a sideyard setback t:rpe of thing.
Olsen: we have a dock setback...so if that lras applied to this, thenwouldnr t, when the:, come through the conditionat uie permit, rre rrouldyou have to put in a fence or screening.
9re
say
Conrad: Brrt see to the north or to the northeastthat Jo Ann? Just out of curiouslty.
Olsen: Itrs another strip llke this thatrs osned
ltou?
of that red area, what ls
b1r a house. Is that
Errnrings:
house.
No. Itrs not been subdivided. Itrs just sorrrebody there in the
Conrad: Based on what I would appl!, as the intent, I rrould have a realtough tinre putting the dock right there right next to a private residence.
PI ann i ng
Decenrber
Corunission Meeting
5, 1989 - Page 28
The long ternr intent is to cluster use. The short tern intent however isthe fact there is a private landowner over there and werre putting a dock
and all the useage right next to that. I find that unacceptable even
though it's better in the long run, it worrlil be offensive to rre if I werethat resident.
Olsen: If that is the intent, then rrhat irerre doing doesnrt do it. Then
rre should have that other. . .
Enrnrings: I guess the other thing is, if you're going to use this approach,
do 1'ou then restrict the beach activities to that 59 foot rride area where
your ve got the depth and the buffer and where do ]tou put. Does that area,
does that rhean as long as they have that area thel, can actuall:t spread
their activities along the whole beachlot or prrt their beach on the
narrorrest porEion? I don't think that's what we're intending either so I
think there's a lot of things that have to be talked about here.
Olsen: That I s where the buffer ing . . .
Errrrings: You alnost need siileyard setbacks to the 50 x ]-60 foot area
assuhing yourre going to stick h,ith that concept.
Ra:, Roettger: Ma:' I just ask, tbe proPerty adjacent to this, to the north,
wouldn't that just be sonre more of the sahe?
Erftings: I think it is one
now?
Ol sen :Single
Then
now isn't it? Isn't that a beachlot dor.rn there
ownership.
it must be a little further north therer I one isnrt there?Erurring s :
Okay.
Conrad: Yeah, Irnr not sold on what werve done here.
Conrad see nr:r problerr is with that, the:t nay convert it to a beachlot.
For safet!, purposes, I guess I can't imagine clustering two docks and 6
boats or shatever lt nright be. I understand some clustering concePt6 to
leave sone things undisturbed yet on the other hand, I grress I see sonre
negatives to looking to the future. I just f inil Putting a dock thatis
being used b1, a lot of PeoPle close to an:7 other ProPert:t not accePtable to
me. Even though there are sone prerits to it' if there's a beachlot
sometinre down the road. From the standPoint of a current neighbor
resident, I couldnr t do 1t.
Mary Jo ltoore: Right now the proPerty is...recreatlonal beachlot and there
is a snimnring beach in. Itrs about in the niddle of that Propertl'.
Edrings: Is it? I thought it rras hore on thls end like itrs shoern on
here.
Mary Jo Uoore: No. I think itrs closer to Headlais Property. More in the
mlddle where the actual swimning area is. There are stairs ln...so their
Pl anning
Decenrber
Corqmiss ion Meeting6, 1989 - Page 29
dock is going to be awa:, fron this area that the:, actually have arecreational beachlot and canoe racks xith theh.
Ellson: The onl!' thing that kept going through rry mind reading this, firstof all r thought it was confusing. r tried to visualize with irrows whatit htould be and I had n:, husband look at it and rrhat rrould rrou think it isand both of us had tota1l1, different drawings as to irhat it would be. Forwhat ltrs worth, the 1a:, people that we are, couldnr t figure it out but Iremenrber in your analysis 1,ou said onl:r along Lake Minnewashta parkrray doesthe potential exist for the beachlots rrithout the 190 foot.
Olsen: Lake RiIe:' I think...
Errson: This one connrent just said onty this Lake Minnewashta parkway areaand so- the thought is, are we writing this in case therers a crescent, incase therers a penninsrrla, when we know onty Lake Minnewashtars the onethat hre're reall], concerned about. Let.s o;ite it towards the areas thatwe know. grer re tr:ring to protect. rf r,re know therers no penninsrrra tneie,then letrs not worrlt about trlring to cover that. Letrs !o to thepotentiars there after we write sorrething and make s,rre !"s, it worrrd workhere. No, it worrrdnr t. wof,k there. yes, therers a naturir uuffer. No,there isn't but r do like the idea of rewordlng it and r thlnk steve wis onthe right track as far as giving the intent statehent. r donrt know, ittsnot easy. I couldn,t figure out a better wa:, to say it either but I figurethatrs why people of 1'orrr background, you can write ordinances better thanne but I just knoe, that I had trouble interpretting it.
conrad: okal'. rn nry nrlnd therers a confrrsion between arrowing the dockand requiring, right now i{e're focrrsed on allowing a dock. Thatrs whywe're rewriting this is to figtrre out nhen we can allow a aoci. - - "--'
Olsen: One of the conditions to have a dockl yeah.
conrad: But it's focused around a dock and not focused around the areathat a beachtot needs. Itrs focused arorrnd a dock.
Olsen: Yourve got that area already where you have to have t].e 3g,ggqsquare feet before lrou can even have a recreationaL beachlot.
Conrad: In my rrind, as I went through that, I didn, t kno, rrhat ire lreresolving. r realry didnrt know if we uere concerned rrith the things ttrat rhad expressed before., The buffering of the neighbors. stiir rnaiitaining aparcer the size that doesnrt read to overuse of that parcer. r guess st6venrentioned one arternative and thatis to redo lt and ti corne up rith .o."exceptions 9f soTe phllosophies. I thlnk thatrs n1, airection- or the rda], Iwould go. Thereis no right number here. r.nr not ionvinced we need to lakethe 4 feet out. As arbitrary as lt is, the principre ia that we donrt wantthe parcel overused. The principle is if 1'oir'v" g-ot tOO iois that coufdlPotentiall!' use the parcel , they-have to hive 4Ug'f,eei.- A;-;.;iu.;t-;;that is, it is a concept of terring rre se donrt want the parcer overused.Now if we can put that in other woids, then r,m frne with it but that 4foot sa]rs werre sensl.tive to use based on the nurrber of prolerty owners 60therefore, at this point in tirhe, r.ve got to keep it in uniil iomeboay -an
PI ann i ng
DeceFrber
Corrmi ss i on Meeting6, 1989 - Page 30
give nre the rationale for taking it out.
Olsen: We just wonrt tie it to homeowners association. Maybe rrer lI jrrst
sa:/ for each lot in the subdivision, no natter if they have the right ornot, that they'd have to have the 4 lineal feet?
Conrad: Again Jo Ann, whether we keep it in or not, the subject is use.
Intensitl' of use and thatrs what to ll|e talks about intensit:'. The 30t000
sqrrare feet talks to Fre about buffering. Then rre get into the dock lssue.
When do ],ou get a dock? You get a dock when 1'ou have so rranyt feet and you
preet soFre other requirehents that ls not inrpacting :'our neighbor. Bottohline, without dragging this out is I guess I donit prind what we had to
begin with if we could talk about exceptions to the rrrle. Exceptions to
the l0g foot.
Conrad: Right. Then I think we meet what werre trl,ing to do and still
keep the intent of erhat we have done in the Past. I donrt want to throw
the intent. Staff recoFFreniled the 4 feet. It easn't sornething that
ttre Planning Cor.rnission or cit:, Council came uP with and thelt Put some tine
into it and I believe staff has put sone tinre into this also but Irn not
real conrfortable throwing it out yet and I think we can solve the problenr
thatrs being throh,n around here in a different wa:t and I'd like to try. I
know that sounds like a lot of vrork Jo Ann.
Olsen: We'I1 copre up with an intent statenent or sonething.
Conrad: To rre the
whatever , I donr t
different, I cotrld
are being rrret.
intent statenent in allowing exceptions or variances or
knord what it is but I certainly could grant sorrebodl' a
get rid of that Lgg foot reail easilf if other intents
Enrnrings: I think we should table this. I hrorrld take a swing at sonre
language on this before the next nreeting and rraybe you want to too and
rre | 1I compare rrhat hre've got and see r.rhat r s the best. ua:,be other People
rrant to also. I guess this is an issue that matters to me and Ird be
willing to take sone time. It11 dictate sonething and Frail it to 1'ou.
Olsen: We will proPose an intent statement. Thatrs probably what we
really need here but then that would not just concern docks but any
activit:, on the recreational beachlot, do 1,ou want it to be all
encot\passing or are :rou rnore concerned with the buffering of docks?
Erurrings: Ever!'thing. Because lrourre tlrPicall:, Putting a whole bunch of
people on a residential lot between two resiilents although therers not a
lot of activitl, there in the winter. There is enough ln the sunmer irhen
lrou rrant to be outside so itrs a pain ln the neck. I think we do want,
that's what werre looking at so I think itis alt the activitl' but itis
hard. we have, ItJrr sure this is the third or fourth time lrerve looked at
this since Irve been on the Planning Cornrrrission. When we go around and
around and we donrt r:eally seen to get anlrplace but now I think some of
Hrlnings: BasicaIIy talking about trading depth where adequate buffering
exists.
Pl ann ing
DeceFrber
Conrnr i ssion ueeting6, 1989 - Page 31
I'our ideas about the intent and the buffering
new ground that we havenrt plosred 5 tines.
maybe can help us get to sone
Conrad: Thel-e are 3 things that yourre trying to do. you're trying togive-people space to recreate. yourre trying to keep a developei fiornabusing the potential of screwing up the rake and sciewing up ihe propert:,and screwing up the neighbors. That's the bottonr rine. iou- reart! aie airathat was the fear that rde had a long time ago so yourve got to givi enoughspace there for t.he people who buy into the beachLot enoigh space torecreate without irrpacting the neighbors. Then !'ou're alio tiying to linritoveruse. You.1q.11, canit cran a thousand people into a snrarr spaie. Thoseare the 3 things. There's sohe great purposes. Great uses of beachlotsand rrve seen them. werve got one on Lotus Lake where they jrrst did aterrific job of not abusing sorrre, severar beachrots, of noi ibusing thenatrrrar habitat there. The], crrrstered. The), put docks together aid iustreally fine but an)'way, Irn sorr!, to kick th;t- back at :rou brrt I thinl....
orsen: r think thatts the probreFr ererve been having is rrhat the intent is.
Conrad:
Frotion?
Conrad: Mar!, Jo, Ra:r, thank
conu\ents.
Enmings rrroved, Ellson secondeal toaFend the City Code to nodify theclarify lot depth requirenrenls.
table the Zoning Ordinance Anendnent torecreational beachlot ordinance toAII voted in favor and the motion carried.
you for corring in. We appreciate ]rorrr
I think I still remehber so na:rbe we can irork that in. Is there a
APPRoVAL oF MTNUTES: Enurrings noved, Elrson seconded to approve the Minutesof-the Planning conorission Freeting dated Novenrber 15, rggi-as presented.All voted in favor except tirrr Erhirt who abstained and the nrotion carried.
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE:
Krauss: There were onry 2 itenrs that the city council considered.ActuaII]' I was sick on !londa:, so I donrt knot rrhat they did but the],
epproved the preliminar], plat for l,tar ket square. rt wis really ,ro Ligdea1. Ersbo Addition wis a rittre interes€ing. r rui""a-[rr" iss,,e" [rrutyou had raised here at the planning corrrmissioi regarding ..""r, to hishorne. To the back rot and r prepaied an exhlbit ior th6m itrowlng how aroad ee had discussed with y9i, iernenber we had iust toiten the iaps in.courd corhe in on the west side of that wetrand, ioopr-this is throirgh theadjoining propert], to the -rest-. Loop around over tireir drivewalr, come tothe back part of Brsbo and go back out to powers. The:, agreed t ith that inprincipre and then came up witt a requlrement that at io.6 tin" as Ersbowants to subdivide or whenever that road, if the road is built, wheneverthat road is buirt to.the south, that he has to t'rn his i"""", around andhe has to elirrinate his existing drivewa!' to Lake f,uc1, noid-and tben hookhis horne up to the south. so that r thi;k addresses loor .on"..ns about
Planning Corrnri s s ion Meeting
Decenrber 6, 1989 - Page 32
Iimiting the nurrber of curb cuts up on Lake Luc:'. I thought that turned
out reasonabl], well and he's coning in for final plat on the 18th.
tXmings noved, Ellson seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The nreeting was adjourned at 9:50 p.rtr..
Subnitted b:, Paul Krauss
Director of Planning
Prepared b], Nann Opheinr
l
CITY OF
CH[NH[EEEI{
690 COULTER ORIVE. PO. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(512) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
I,tEMORANDUU
TO: Planninq Commission
FRolt: Jo Ann olsen, Senior nlanner @
DATE: December 29, 1989
On November 6, I989, the Board of Adiustments approved an appeal
by Robert Pierce to staffrs interpretation of the 100 foot depth
requirenent for a dock on the Stratford Ridge recreationll beach-
lot (Attachment l*1). The Board of Adjustments determined that
the way the ordinance is written is ambiguous and that it ilid not
state a recreational beachlot must have a L00 foot "1ot' depthfor a dock. Therefore, the Board qranted the Robert Pierce
appeal to staff's interpretation stating that the subject site
contained 100 foot depth and therefore met the reguirements ofthe zoning ordinance for a dock on a recreational beachlot. On
December 4, 1989, the City Council reviewed an appeal to the
Board of AdjusEment's decision on the depth requirement for a
dock on a recreational beachlot (Attachment l*2). The City
Council upheld the Board of Adjustmentrs decision by determiningthat the subject property meets the conditionsras currentlystated in the ordinance, for a dock on a recreational beachlot.
On February 22, 1988, the City Council approved a conditional usepermit for a recreational beachlot for the Stratford Ridge sub-
division. Condition 11 of the conditional use permit stateal thatthe recreational beachlot sha1l not have a dlock or canoe rack(s)
unless a variance to the lot depth is qranted by the Boaril of
Adjustments and City Council (Attachment t3). This contlition has
been met since the Board of Adiuatments anil City Council approvedthe appeal to staff's interpretation of the ordinance and statedthat the recreational beachlot tloes meet the reguirements for a
dock on a recreational beachlot. Therefore, the applicant doesnot need to receive a separate conditional use permit forlocating a dock and canoe racks on the Stratford Ridgerecreational beachlot.
The
the
applicant is locating the
existinq sand beach area.
racks and dock aal j acent
applicant is limited to
canoe
The
to
two
SUBJ: Stratforil Ridge Conilitional Use Permit for Locating a Dock
and Canoe Racks on a Recreational Beachlot
Planninq Commission
December 29, L989
Paqe 2
canoe racks and one dock with overnight storaqe/moorinq of no
more than 3 storaqe of watercraft. The canoe racks and dock will
be screened from the property to the eest by steep topography andveqetation, from property to the south by over 500 feet of vege-tated area and from the property to the north by existinq vegeta-tion.
Staff tvill be recordinq a
Carver County against the
conditions:
revised conclitionalproperty to inclutle
use
the
permit with
fo l lowi nq
I
2. The recreational
racks.
The recreational beachlot shal1 be permitted one dock withovernight storage of no more than 3 watercraft permitted.
beachlot sha1l be permilted only two canoe
3 The dock anclrecreational
I989.
tr{ro canoe racks shal1 bebeachlot as shown on the
locateil on theplans dated December 5,
ATTACHI'{ENTS
Board of Adjustments minutes dated November 6,City Council minutes dated December 4, 1989.Oriqinal conditional use permit.
Site plan alated December 5, 1989.
1
2
3
4
r989..
33ffi"31 fl,|!ff*t AND rPpEALs ,r,urEs
!
IEIIBERS PRBSEN?,
ETAAP PRESEN?:
PT AP EAL I
T Atr ONI NG ING
Staff grcaenteil tbc 8epoat to the Board.
:$i":.lrs:,1$...
rD-terpretation of
;::ii:;;i'Ilili:
i;i},';ll$l*ti'i*ti:titrft1t*',.i,;5i:l',i.$,rii,:ll:
f
$ijl:rtr,*i:*ii'.;:'i:rt{,'i;iiitilli";iTlillll'ilflrli:
3:*::.ffi:i'33ilol3l.thc app,ceat rour.t dctcrarnc rbo u..t tbc
*:Ttf;I{:iiFi. T;Li,ifi . tiL,,?;.'ffi ::H;; !.T:i[,.*,l
**igtgfil'li"dj*tff
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#d,H $r:t*;,ii;
iiiililtiliri,f,iii{$ii.'ii$Iii$siffi :Biiir,i.
Iillaril ilohnson, C.rol fat.on aadt Urula Dtnl.er
F
EOA tlinutes
troverbe! 6, 1989
Page 2
ordtinance l! rritten todry. fhe ortlinancc atrte8 that a
recreational beachlot Dust hava a 100 foot tlcpth andl .gatn, that
they dlo bave a 100 foot alcpth anA that rhe recomends approval of .
the 100 foot depth latcrpsetatlon.
-:
Dialer aovcd r recoaded by ilohaaon to rpprove tbe lDtcrpretatlonof tbe 100 foot dlepth for rccrcatlonal bcachlots as rt.tcal ln the
roaing ordinaace. All eotcdl tn favor tnd thc Eotlon carricd.
Iataon oovedl r recondcdl by Dtat er to clo.e tbc atubllc bcarlag.lll votedl ln favor aad tlre Eotlon carrlcal.
.,-
I
|.
r rsl"y"iil,I#ffi.13 ff #,tig,ff6,lf"ffiH* *I regr.laticrs d at- r,rres rt-rfrirlEong-are-rot c..t rn .oucte either. rr tbink-thy.at l'ye F ltur A.E caui a"-to drf,l,r"r 6; ;;d b.".rre tfUErers a uehiclc ln ttpre rd ttEt, -rat "a16_6! 6$, fi frlre.e ro,-..vtley or ruke that rltttln tlDse c,ri+:ra. lhelrrre laige-jD,ryh. tbre4eclftcau^y urat cE, lurrre rDt gorng-o rrre &i-erEa i-it.
Effi i"H!;ffiygl*i_[j,tr;H:# ff #: H_,bE Go tusr anrn! tn o*ry rrr. llr-vota r" rrrror-rnr-6-roum carrld.
rl?Eht, WmERBBlrril-c tomlc@llE nEqurRE{Brr e tgo tur un rpnr ERA rf, or A RERnrTToInL Bgcurr!, qnr.or er-srnnrdo uG,-frEm ptERcE.
I
& tnn OIgr: ItE bald -of Bjtrshsits 4provd t,re {Deal to thelnterpetatim of tlr ordlnare. tt Es ,;,.nhD,ls rtfnqral. rrd lt aan bedisc{rssed.
rel.r chdel ! rt oan be dlscrEsed by ..rErr brt bvtng ."EnrmE 4fnovd tl,ertim le to rerrlen that.
cbnEirnm tbrtgrEn: so Errl t@k to asrd the cdtin rEe? tDrG san.t !variayce?
Jo t rl OlEns tb varlarr.e.
erEilnran f,crhrran: S they can brlld ! dct( ,Drr? .. .
.b lm olen: [rey ue. Elven 'r qtrtal to ttr.t delrlon, oorrect _d also asl:rt d oris. tlrr e sl}l pro€xis li ordinaE-rfut trp r"Ii^t I;.-!,":, 9sred tlDt ur" ;, urffil=ft$*ff_-ffiIrur, irra rDt c16ar tr,"t-U,5y-tr"r,e 6 b";-iL;iot O"ptfr. ltq, & hile . tggfot deerh as lt ts strted 6 thi;t ;L;ii;*..
ffimHf! rt ss rrqr urderetardtrt tht cbrEll Euld bilE 1rq[t crto
Jo lm Ol3cn: 6rtrt.
OttEtlrrst John8dr: trd llk! tD hlvG Er ldnrrtecpr i.* ti".6.. i r_-T.,!.bieE.;;;;"?ff i:: iEi?f;.F*,-t E ntnutes as qulckl' ae po"ible. tt i.7- . U."f-1;6'6ii,'iTo.9*
H"tT da1's tt rr beforc tt sr b .Fd--r.t r.o ur.-to --[L'"ii"t*
& r,rr olEr! tre cdrnara .'t b. by ertrr thr o5.r c h-o4y ultrhtn 5g,ht. r darrt ka. ratt tl pst pi'Ly-h, *.
GEtr.' i.t,.sars ![-ratl ffitrr,.g elc rn Euc barrre r cln & rt bo.
I
31
-7_t. ...rr*r, ttetl'g . rvater g' fsgg
I
u[ct]!d,t Eo!t: rqy cltlzen can 'b tt'
ffilr#; .rstr$#'::"nrl' !*Hf",E *':'"*"si*
tc'
pyor Ctrrief : Er, lDurre Crahlrg yuu bait ps'
tm lsh5rth: ItEt's @rrEt '
crrrtlut tbrloun: lts &r't lDve trlE nlnutes ttpqh (b e?
orrllnJ| &tn3dr: tD, lt Just b.EPettd ',t'
72gg toright '
otEirndl E!t: tq'i ibrrt take nlrutes '
Jo lm Olsens I Eite UEtr atosl. ttrey're tDt verbatin'
et El:rqat EEt3 I puld ltke to ee thle alfaledt ' ls a cltlsr I sild
dr"n"r, trr"l a*i=r-. ttinutes or rc rulnutes, I thlnk lt's a d€clslqr that
;;;i;|t,*G"tiot ty uporrrif as a rlrle' ttd IEt3mau:rr I tlrlnk 1!'" ft
*"rE;y t" 6o "uot *,.tglrg an.ordinarre' If :- Ent to ctEEe !n gTdlttt':'
;;dit" Frt it tttro€h-a irurrc tcarttlg 4,q1q"-i!' ^t'tsiD.uldn':,1t"ti= 6"ta oe-ra5,rst's,t irg rpeafs YitlTg grdfrurce dratges lor us' Arr lDu
;;;L b;&a U= ninrte-s'trq', tlr fiist tire ttE &ucil rnde tils .
disc{ssim to lee t}Et Barbara Drry, bgcr -F,lut8on atd vlrtually.l re}l ttfit si
HJ;iiii'ttrtErc m lt "t tlE tirt€,-tIllde lt real crear lDe tie:' Ere
iJiit-Ur.-f&-d"eO fis,r. So to ine brct mr ant ray- tn t ttE Clty
aiii;E fr-G "er,io.
piiil. ara tt *ots ts rd glven qt ?8 a trctrEll
;I;'-t "-B".rd rcti;;i-urlq t}p o,nc.Il orrrrt to rerrler lt. lf erre
mlrr to ctranqe ttE orOiruli, -fctis -a,""g. Un siivrrte. lt r] ttn thlrg &t t.
O""i. tt- orEhate ltd & lt llght'
CErrEilEtgr Dirnler: lEIl 8111, yout re rlgtrE ' -fie Ctty.orneil t!. tie orly ce
il;;-dr"*. tfe orainare Uirt-rtrat tb-bad can & lr lct qr tJE
f;t .! "t"tio" d thltr. *Et E attd tonlgtt '
tllor Chiel: ttra
cbtEtlEr lbrhnm: t ddr't luvc a1t curgrts '
rrlc chdel ! lh mly thlrq t srt brtr tD Jo lm 5E ]onr lettii of rorctter
ffi ";-fi;''j'-i"-#,'!.i;i idi..itd, tL qsltc, si tr uc c'rnrlrslor
fi;;;'"b; tD p"t',lt'tt- +Pltcmt q b1trJ dodr or i rc*e'tloal
E*I,rs6,g t , crr-urey oo it.--r= batd of ratju66srt lrd r,peal..hls tlE
EiiLy-;;.il ;;;Lil: -tt= *lt"n lErT oldr-suld b to t': d tlE
otdlmr. t thttrx r ryr;; ;dprfld frt$fury b!t'c tlE a&Ile barlr€ b 'Edtb odlnae ud I trot tlzc.
& Irn olsrs tEt ylll *111 b atq€. ltlrt tb bud dlttt Enlght-Ee lln :1'
U--i.air.d L ulttgr ta.i, tf,"t ft .d+ cvr b lntarPrcttd itlffcrently'
lrd it"g.grJtlt.t tt rs tDt lnetprcttott crc-tly'
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32
a.r t l'
T
I ff:tsffj i,Hi H'J:,"triF.E sffi:H# H.r,*.
ti!,or Clrrdel: E eryo'E bas !1 qdnton
Grrcllnran Dlrrrler: Itcr e dl&rrt rav ti,e.d.Iii#i *= .*iitil^Ai#; fgH ETT.orlE *.:tffi?:if; tf.fltf^:ir :h''aa'"*-tt6i;-#i,* lDurre tlE
EIlIotr FEtsch: t ahrt st F_ qEsttm Ea, ttE blld of EjurtErts ,rlEf+[* r*fftfi H,.EH*5#:', ,*.xiHH! *".
fr rffi "*"1';r*qj6-i_ffi;iffi.*:6*-Hr':r".*ffi#jffilflry FItf :is,o.*-r, -& Ii,-66-**.*ry k"t't the origrnar rntent ris.--r=i;.-ilir; ar re th. ordirurr-r.ads.
&rEll*'.n Dlnrler: lrhatrr. Elght rrd ,w E om, flF p. ra:7, tI! O.oEtl aa^declab the ren prdirr urt ?t dii 1arti.rlr it,.,_tp E:, Itr3 hEatd, tIEtnr.n,netatio.. o.:o L airferent-fil;L-t;. of ttE foEE orcrr.
g,Ell!'?n byt: trnr aorr-v r got r1Eet .bort ttoroftlrltg ti ar-u""]t a. r' !:re ulrl b $GnE? of
E[tott fEtsdt ! Grtalnlv ltrr rdrxr^ .-.- -r_ffi;: ffi-*E"H'Si$ffi.ffi".*$n H ;.ffi*
&rEtlEun dnicr: IGlf I thlrrk ttE cbl'ctl doce harrc b hrdle tfu rrodlrrare rcrdirg. th.t Es ,!t-ttE rnt-*-oi u= rgg b & thrt. -d ata,,tH.?r3#. HrE ffi" -G-.' rii'iltr'E u r-&rEt 5 +""r
t+Dr Chdel: Ur. Eck, tt lolr llb n Ert b ray rrurtry.
fi f ffi J?f f ,,.H'EJ€Hf#fi .rH,E:llff ..#tH-
dbcualors, ttn taat tftagrcd the deurgrt rrr&ffiffilE#,rEr:il:'ff fi'fi"ff,s-ai 'ta";;+ ilIi c-; *;;i;u ,.p"r"oa ."- i*.-t-ffiifl&prt! ffi 'ffi;g+-.,. g4.iffi.r'".
e*f,"H.#ftru; ; i;-rilH:.ff:f$: ff_*f*,E*HE"rffi.H;#ffif#H#ffi$ffi"t*I
33
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Fter &ck: Itrs orer 3lrg0g lgu.re ftet rtt 559 lorE feet of ftontage m t Elake. Itc Aenerd @nsensus I think of erl tlp prbli,c bdtea h.8 be€n tlE docktsrrt, tlE mly qr.estion bs b€g1 tu to Frt tt ttrre rd really the rightlEer Es sr oEilirErr rsft:nt ht tlE ttlor cblrEil Ju.t coul&rr t get I
vdes for sE Frticrflar v€rslon of tfE Gatln rrr. tE Just Fcstt thie as qe
Ey, falrl:, aJ.rrple sy to reaohle lt. Ple[era pr&lgrr so he can go ahed r'daell thoEe lots bause tlp trcscrs...ud tlEn E @uldn.t 4ree lse thlt
tJE OrrEtl stDrrld take that olporunlty aft€r tb.t to clear rtrr tn t bnEu.qE tn
tlre ordinarre.
Ot Eilwr Dk'rler: Des Ur.t dartQa
Itlor Ctml.el: Yes. lre E golr€ to hlve a r$tldl?
O|,Eillrlr r brlEtsr: I rtrr rDt are I ltrpu r&!t Billra getttng at ottEr ttun tfu
oralinarEe, doirg rc'et'htrg agalnrt an ordlnale. D :rou fe!. tl-rc.s rethtrguog riti thic ibck?
Cbl'Eilnan b:t: titsIl, t thlnk rlrrt E're &1rg t=re ls eirc talklng &ort,
-rre :ettirg Sxccdent tn ter['B of lu, E're golrg to Elte Ul18, resrlte tlEordinarre. fd t think rathr than Et F€c€d€nce ol t-hls or llerr, E itould
tDt do that. l€ dDuld 90 tbrough a pbl tc trarlrg. IC ttDulal girn pople a
drarre *p snt lt, b luve lnprt on thie rrit tlsr e citpuld rcsolve lt ln a
rersfiable faehlm. All 3ou hlve to & ls red tJc ltinutce fror te!' 31/L988. tore that ryarsrtly tbre'8 been gdte a rev€[ra]. ln t E Ert of orr 6|'cl1.s
t'hinkirg about r*Et E Eeant tse becau- Fger Flutsql veq, cleuly iays, lt's
!ry urilerstrrdfns tbat tiEy're talkirg &out lot werrge rd tl alld rDt h.rre a ..lgg foot aver4e lot depth. owrllnrm drrrdr Ey8, lt doeai't 3ry !t eErE€ lot
itegth. Barbara Dcy, th.t'r defitrd. Fger Frutaon, the lot d{rth te m
average. tb$ fc the Board of fdjustrents lrd fpFafs to blrn arowd ard rayEIl, ttEy atidr't get lt rlght. t thtttk Eratrr a blg declrlor.
orycil.wopn Dirnler: Jo Arn, EuId pu iairca! th.t ple!!e?
.D lrrl Ol-n3 ls f,ar s Ur lot d.t th, lt d r't rrd€r tlr regulattou lor ttrrcreatiolEl be.df.ot, ttcs mt rtlte lot alqth.
ourtlllEr JduEor: It Jurt EF deth.
Orrlhldl Eolts I l,derEtlrd tn t .rd t doirt iltrpuE that.
E
& lm OIcr! I bD9 blt tirtt. rlE€ ttr dbcq!rcy ltcr. ttr tsE qr rb
Eote tlr flrtt rctDrt, tl: varlare tqrt rnl Urrt'r b, e lttd abftr! lt odtnterFet lt. t glEss 3rcu rad fot deptlt c tge fot dqrtb, rasr gur rollylod( !t ltr lt de!,rit a4r U!t.
ol,clbE r Eo!t: lEEer3 lrDtlE tr$E ErEftat rel.td to rart crrG golng tD
ab rith t*r ordlnare. I thlnl tlEt r i:ae cD.Ud be ndr thtt lDle la lrt atntld&le lot .s lt 3its D lt doesri t trvrr fur G oq!! !rou! b iltrcurtng I
!
to EE erEr.l before. If tlE 6rEll cnta to take tt rI), b!, lII reans ttcycm. E aan & it tonight G tly ottrer t&e.
lipr Chdel: lihat ls total lot gl ze?
ot
t
t
Cier (bEif l3etlt€ : rc'rerber 6; 1939
tbls for a ordi'rae ctE ge, r rcul.d 3{gest thrt E do rDt srt to create asltrEdm tn rrhidr . recreational bedrloa ls entltld to Eter rlghts that
rcul&rr t be there lf tlEt rE. ! Irlvlte tEte. rrd e, r thlnk ttr- trarr ls r,Dre
co*r^ Ltcated than s Ent to plo, into as a owElt and r'ghe a birdirg tlectslontonigt t m. In, lf e orerturn, lf e go .la.E dth ttE bard of Xjrrstrcnt araItrfnals, tlsr e have ln frt glven tlDe EEople tI- rlght to !,rt thetr dek lh!rd- said lourre granilf,atlEred rd tlren rten e lox at tle oroinarre lt8elf, rGro lorger harre an oEDrtunit!, to csrtrol ttrls.
Ol'EiIEtEn Dinler: tlculd 3ou eryilain dU, tiatra rct a brlldable lot?
Ourcil&a Bo:,t: tt dcsn't hilre tfE ablrth.
OtlEllEim D!nler:. br a be*hlot?
OrrEilltat blt: I.n talkirg &out, cln ar:tAy Ftt a Flvat€ hG m thatlot?
Eter Eck: lt. llr:,or, OuclLrrgrbers. Efore !t. pierce urrc*rasd tlE ..propefty ard erEivldd it, ttrli propcrC, Es tErt of a larger lot that hd therlght to a dek rd lt tad a dock lrd toct8 rd t Dtrs .rrtly rary e lt rit€dotlr reqEst b m1:, t*t t ttE properqr rculd be dloiE' lf it rnc rtlU In aalrgle lot *dctr is tlE l dck rd 3 botts. tfid llb to hilre I b.t3 becarrse
hers got a Eterfront or lake ltlrrrnahta Pulor!, lrdrt lots brt t told hltttlet.s bep lt !t tl|e 3 boats because that.a rllat lt alsy: ss allcrd E allrgle lrdly properq,. lbr rtardlrg .1m, Just tt- poittcr tiat 13 tbbeachlot, ls gourre rlght, la rDt brlldable as a dngle G{trt1y lot tEale itdoesl't bve, lt couldni t rrEert aetbacb ard a nurrber of thlry- Gatgd betgtthe prhay lrd tlE lake trlt ritEn lt Ea Frt of tJr btgqcr rtEgle-fr,rtlypropefty ti.t Ert blck to tlE Est of tdrrErEslrta Earksy, lt rr tlhea.arddld hrle a dek.
&|rEttrEl blt: Brt .s t reall, ti.t (bck nr rrrprd af ssntt t.t lrcealrtrtil, lt desr't bne a dodr rrn. : -
Fter Eks lt al€ rDt lEr,r r dek rDr, ltattr rlgbt.
OrrEibgr Eo!t! rrd dEt lt rr. anElvldd, lt Esrrt craatCt .. o! lot c,rtrD siile. of t E ro.d, roroSly toryh. lb lrqdc tbfng tt. I.lyw tt th.ttty llr f988 I rrEld fc gtvtrg t&. Plcre btr iletc. ttr-Jult ragdrg ru thtI think the ny to do lt, r! lirurvr ,rdlcateit, tr to drnqe-Ua or6fnie aa fdonrt tblnl Elva th.t Etle talk&g &trt .!E!t 2 f,cani eU . Flr lrd .blf later, t,llt tl! caple of rsrtlu lttr golrE to t*c b i6dt t't.ordinarc f! gofrs to b? thlt csltlcal. lrd rattc !- r. & tt th.t r4,. tgr-as lrr Uuo$ il&attng. .
Ol'EllEts'r Dlnler: Et t tlrlnk t!! Act sulnr Bi.t tislrrre lrre bcforc rrnm.rd crn rtl4g or tlp otdtnro ar ltta rltt- ru. -t&rtr. rlt c cpuld&.I
35
lilE Chilel! }u, ottEr altrcr! tor?
OrEtIEr ltrtssr: lric abcl funit e 1:awsrt dock? ttt. rtt, gotrE b brhllt ru rlgbt? ttr. r IEem.nt atoc* bt tt st't b. bdlt rntll rut qrtq?
v..-.. , r,,I,
Ordf ,Ettng - rbrrgtrbet 6, 1989
tv Er}: It rlU b a eassral atetr Just llhe any other dek ln the
;FnIg.u'
ppr Ctrdel: tbt a batdElk?
rtar Ect: s, tD. Itrs tDt r oElete IryIql, ,D. It YllI be Just r regular
iila yry oOer bdrEosrers atod( ritlt rorr for 3 boats an lt. i
trUott tuEtsdr: Efce ttE:, grt tn the (bck, t}Ey Fuld tEd b cotre ln for a
aditfmaf ue pcndt ar€ pu qm lee tl: prqneal ln tore detail tt th.t tr!€.
Frler Ek: ttra tDt a rrEtter of lrrat tt rdil go ln thie -aeqr of cc[rce t[t
dte arHivisidr ts &veloplq rcr ard has p:clrae agteffiits qr r coqrle lots
,d $ey deperd cr *EtJEr tlEre'B a &k or rDt. nEt klrd of r {Ec tnEe tE
hrllde a Er third lot deperds at rrtptls tl:rer I ! dck or rDt. th.t'6 [E!t
of ttr reassr brt reauy the nain r€aaon E srt this rcute 1r batrae E trlGil
. anrythlrg eI*. lts trted tIE varlare. It Es d€nld b.c.u* lE .tDuld get m
sdinarrr aerrt'grt. rE trtcd ttr ordirurre agdrrnt Jd Orrril Just dti&rrt
cliclr al a verslcr that ttEl, likd rc rarll:, tJEe Bsr't mrch ele b & crept
to look rt *Et tne udinarce saldt rd !s sEaft .rd ttre barat !aid, d:n prr
red it, it aS[nars to .llou a deh ar t lot. llhe Urls & thatrs rttrr E Ent
th16 t(rte.
(brcllwr E1t,: lt:n Es tIE ordinJEe argrlqent atlearsd !ry tfE Citt,
On rll?
Fter Eck: tEt Es th.t tt], 31 retltig that lDu p'e reding b ttre
I '11 get lgi ,Dtes.
rf.nutel?
ChrEilrrgr Jdrlsorl: It': r*Ere e argrd to get the rlgtt rcrttirg ln tlcre.
r
u
T
a
\otl
to
n
I
Cbl'rllnur Bqts otay. fft.t e dld pss tf, cr I lgE0 e paard rot.thl'rg, se
care racts ad tlEn discEseal !t grrcat lrgt}l thlr lretr &ort fot d€pttt. tdidr't rere tIEt E Urnd anltfdrg don ttrre. t Just tluoqgtt.e paad part
of lt.
Fte! Bec*: tp ordlinarce EE rDt argrtd as reornerdd bg, trlE atlff Jd tlE
Plamlrg &rnrigsio t}.t FuId allory a dek. lh.t lrrt of tlr ordlnaretgrigrt Es,Dt ldopt€d r tlp dek rElll sgr't dlold d .tlll lt,ltturl..c thls .fe.l, fs $reld.
cb.,rtln,r Bqt 3 I g[Ess t dd1't -e ln brcl t]p ordtnarce rlprc Orro se
Eter H: !:re ngrrt. tt lla.lt utth lt ln r dlifferot ny. ttn trldng torg|Elter. t thir* tJE stlff rsrrcrdd or elptoach ant t crnit ratatercrEuy dlat lt Es trrt ttc Plannlng Grrrrlrslor ollE S, rtti a dtffrrgrt
TI,Iect rd I bdbt e thlt Es tD t Ellde tt: rlgh,+f*y tn ttD lot dep,th rdtlE cbrrEtl hd both of tle- egge3tlmr !rd, ELI l|orr c.n red tlr }llnute3ltuu-lf ffi UE Gtd rcailt ns thrt luc of tlur se doptd th.t Fuld rUilr ilck qr this gartlorlar beadrlot. Bt tn tlE Eantrrrr, nobo{y hd aner rrally..id tht suld lt b lnalproFl.te tD lEve a ibck tn thtr dtuattsr. tt ,ll3t,E\rcr got, to a mlutlan tbat lrrgrfcrrrentd lt.E
36
t olrEtlrtEl tDrhrsr: Hi5r_gl .:_o|r qrlE be lrtlent rntil e got orE ordinarree& utth trE rntent rlrat thaar! tlE atr&im e;n" uarili;i -,'
Eter Ec_t: - Iou lsDr, lp'rd larrc b talk to Bob &out that. ttrs hen tLttutte before but b tt ritfr a dtfferent olrEll Uot tt.t"to-f ,rot"s; I thinkIt du be easier for tlE 6',Ell to coBrder -rt
-,t auscuss it rittoot carryrr,g
E3H"i:,ya:rsHi trgTt *r#}ii; JJdiniio-Jii ;ie'''
referere to thts qrtiorlar projcct.
Cb.'rtllEt Jotnson: Jo Am, rfto ss prbl lc roticedt or thia varlarre?
Jo lrrr Os€n: It Es ln ue pper !'d tjrEn .ll ttE property ffErs.
orrEllnm Johnion! trEre Es a tahe Hirrmshta rErE$Ers lasetrtron? rrean tbyr re uc ans that se ln bere yeurq &out the a*t r"-tt -il."t
Jo trD Oaen: tt Es rrl tIE sitE llst as before.
erEifnu Jotnrsan: Did Sorr glve us s list ln tcre of rtro?
Jo lra Os€n: lb. ltra rDt ln ttr regnrt.
GtEibrJl Jotnsdr: Ecaule trn rrprleed tfut trb:, EEenit lnre. Itre tlrybere fc tle alpeal?
& lnr OI-n: 16. [E:, Ere ggrlt r rptice. t,5, they Eerlrt. .1
btrEitrnm ,btnEon: ElI *tat sactur ns deidd bll uE brd?
,,
Jo_Arrr Ol-n: &ey agr€d tt t tlE lnteqrretatlon l8ir! ttD tot dteDth&finltian rss lrrorrect.nr th.t th Ef lt,! Ertt n 6ortt".-, tf,it tr=reTeational bef;hlot h.d to have lSg f;t h rteptb rd ft a; t,rc igg te.t fndepth.
GrEtLnm Jotrnsdr: So ge-f.3reea dH, *rt I srld ! !D.r d a talf qo brttlE rest of tlE ourrit dldnrt agte rltl rr:?
Jo lrn oltsn: r€rtl. irhlt EE1't being dl*rrsed !t th.t ttE. !E_r, Eren.tdis{ssirg ttE aFeal of tlr lnteqrrcEflor, nhlci lr ,ar"a tIrE, dtd B,igfrt.
'.b lrrr Olscns St ff dtal.
Gbrctlrur &,"dr s Brt tlEa the o.,Ell+.f,ftnd tlllt *zr n bld htn Ecouldrrt Frt tn ur ibck? l&r b hal b orr beforc ur for e -rdltr;nir u-
IE ftlt?
Jo lrrr OIEI: lt ErId rttll hyc to do 6.t.
lt3'u Ctnlel: &Ee. -
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Citg erEU tGettng : Unsqter g, fg8g
AEi * ---
A,'rilIll/r Jdrisan: Ibn Lorg dtoea that take?
,D ll'l Olsrs t @t{)le mnths.
cborctt'rn Jolnsor: ItE 1gS feet ksrr.
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&y A&h't cnt to talh &oNrt
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n
t Io
oulttln,l J&Eqr 3 $ Erre gpt . @qrle tlsrths to cb!'Ee'tlE qdinc.e oe
!y c lrDtlE. SEr tE corcs befo8e us yitll a ordltlonal ue Ftrtdt, tlE
dirurEe orld be,rirfercnt orE E!, or tl- dher. & the tlrrn. t tlrre?
nter Sedt: Drt h tfE Eanttrc lf e get lnb tlrle lq Jatr or tb odlnare,.t lEst lE @trld [Eood.
etEllrtgr .rdrssr: lt sr rdt €rtie ble p:oprt!,.ny E!, lE GntE to dvstise
Dlg propertf, bt lE alc tDt hlt e a orditlanal lr.e [EErlt for a dck. tf tEsrts to dvertlce hls goprq,.s bvirg dock tigbE, pu night Elt to dotht. Bt llsr tt orcg tle ttrE tE gets hlr @rditton l rre-g:ndt, lD betterb r.dy c l,le oEalinarr ntght be ftErd up tD .a!, lvcrlge lot depth at th.t
Dottt tn tfuE .rd b Fnrt get hls cordttloal ue 1nmtt. ltrattea
IDssibiuq,. lEur 4ain, I ar$Ed tie otlnr sy last !E t. Btt t rrrr polntlry
ort tb psstbilities. trn polntl'g out tlE pooslbtllttes. t.n rDt potntlrgot rhat I'n golrg to eote for bause I pEob.bt, n de tt Fett!, clear- taat Itbryht tlE lrrpose of tlE lgg foot ss laet year.
Etetr Beck: fd I $ink really e are poorcding bcarrae tt dtd 4Pear tlrlt .lltb grblic bdies didnrt thir* tlE dek eg unEeasqr.b1e. Itre rcal lrarg-rp nstg* 0o yoo rcorrpl.tsh it. t: plarrrtrg Grrrrlesion has recnri€r.Eted it a-orpletllrEs. ItE Boud of tdju.BbEnts ard tlE Clty eurElf dlErrsslon, lt set.ttell!, an isec that tl:y (tidlnr t tlrink a abck dpuld be qr tlrlr 3lrg00 qrrarefot beachl.ot. It Es ml:r, tu rb pu r|crd tlp ordiruye to urpftetr thatrd it di&l't 4ree m an rrsthent. - t
GblrEllnan ,h$Trsdl: I ttrlnk rdt t reall!, h+pen€d E8 E rErr€[ got arorrd totally gettirg !t that lsse. Ihe lase ju8t kird of .
Ft.[ Bect: [le lgg feet?
T
Eter bk: rb€ofuEly.- q!t.-r ,4ry e orgtrt tt rI, EdgDt. hr brol'lrt ttq, ht lt Egrtt rc.11!' aLctdeit.
bctltian Jotns0l: At titt plnt tt Ejrrt.tlt trks lrd rot. ttE...
T
f*et fcct: llrt'r dr:r e bmrght thlr rogr:t b Goe€ lrplo or thrt .a rd?:"- !.y to re.ohre Fi! parUs.Uu gla of EoFrty rrt tocqnfrfrg lur ErldpOtty slt to 9o &*!...
elElfrEl.blrlEr: tf 1ur lotd lt tt! alrr.lolrErt FG.saG tltat sr or *.ff.t $.t tItE, UE runt ot rcrk thy c &tng al olr sllrtlrt tr,g ln ttrEnfrg reettrgr that - uc h'r,ftg, li,lr ca .iU *ry .Chlry flke lot deDthengc or thir qdtinura trttf-d unoqth tlro Frvcblil eex. -r urtnk trati ag6&ly emqh.fc ult!-teae. F cJ' 99 o! .rd tf Irllboe, Ertr b rgnl lt2rlrise got tlrlr 5 c lg dr!E, raltarE tt lt to ltrE.f lt.
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citr, (Ertl tGetlrlg - lbrrsibeE 6; f989
I lnEd b 4tE t lt- t .lEGd:' lrave tdicatd rrqr lntention
ttrs lg dt:,s.' Eild rith UE ,Brlrg drrinstrator.
C.n I borro, a ple of ppr ard till Ehe lt Gaq/.
tt atesn't 3a:' EltEl rrtlce ao.
Ol!,Elt'|a,t Johnssr! $ ttE zonltE latltistr.td ls tse tonlght .jd Bill- h".
""iA-LG air,s it - it.e ftfeit yttS tle zontng &rlrutrator. 161at Y111 be Ft
01 a fubrre corrrll 4erda.
(hrE{bEl llcrtoan: So E ddlrt hav€ tEthlt€ to db? lb rptlon?
tiyw Chtel.: I dotrr t e !t!'.
If you gr+,s Ent to \ro,te dr this, lou're elcolE b vot€ otr lt
OrrEilrlm E!t:
to ab t.lt t.
Erltott P€tsch:
OrrEllrial b:t:
Ef tott E€tsch:
&rcllnrat E1t:
tonigttt.
Grcitnan Jotnsm s t'd ratlrr sit.
orrEibt r &:t: Ert lrn JlEt aYlrlg that I
ard t.d reaUt ltke tte 6rrc11 to do an olal
Errre gpt tle corPle nslths to & t'r!t.
Ert tlD Gl'EtI tD t ote dl lt
lnare rrrcrrtgrt PtGs. t tbink
I cbrrEilE En Dirnler: l€.re goltg to ab tIE ordirure rr-nihglt lf Posslble.
o|r,EtLtt n b:t 3 litsu e ipuldt tilrn th18 atffii ttat do lt thro€h a|l ordirFrEe
rr:rdt:nt.
orrrttlt,an &lrnson ! I dalit thlnk tlnre E8 ,ry .ff€ct or,(*rla barrre lE Etill
chrribEr E!t: onrt gEt lt <t J!l'.
ct,lrEtLiln Snsotr: ltty tDt?
OrEttrim Bqt! tf E ryrce Ylth UE 44-a1,.brl 90! tlE.TtSh!-T-t-*ck gd
- .r,-t ff nio. myt" "o,6Urfrg
rbut UD- ootdttlan of Fttltg lt 1n but e'rc
cbt EllIE r Jotntarr: OkaY.
o|,ctl'g| E!t: C.!a lt r*trErt t,D ftaff rd ClrtElltt pwlorl peltton
.nt d.rTr tlt ip.l. -F,.;E;;idGr a lorttg odlrup' ti oarge tl: Er'E
ilinare.
O|,EilEl5r DLrrIc: BrE t tlt .ttff hlat a itlffercrt pcltlor t,llt tlrn Btu'
&rEilnm Bqt! Arie. t rcd ttt rqDrt.
orElt5lgt Dtrnter: !E!, Ec ln rlPort of *provrl '
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,- df 6,r.11 tetiry : ever,ser 6; f9g9 ,.,a!j
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ffi,#*'J.!f;.:'T;TI'E;'ilHtS,H."fri.l: * eo .,r lpur
ffrlffi.*er: rqr ren ratoJ'tt ttre psitton of the board rDs ud Btrt can
p1u Ctaiel: tf !,ou Ehold t}r psttlon og gp eoqrd.
ot,Eilmsr Dlnler: lE ca ltlll +peaf tt.
D'i &ftmti: lb.
ourllnrar E1t: t don.t thlnk so.
OrrEtIEr &trrsm: OEe UE 6rrEir. rrotes at lt, lE c!n.t !ppea]. tt.
' orlcilEErr Dlrrrrer: r tluEtrt 1ur cardt any cttrzen bls lc da:u to carc rn.
ot,'E'ttrdr ,Enson: [Etra berrrse t]E &.'Erl.r beerr dolng rt uorE for anr&er of 1ears. I arcanm,F4 oe *rF trT,#ffi:Hff.S?t*F*ll. r,E rE(r (blrctr neetrrg as fir as ri.--ro.I"a. E-;h;d;-;I'Llrlhrrg o.F{rs ri. bardtt. position "t c.-""'=-Jiii'q,"t tr,. Bo.rdt tEars rt bea*ethrr.a ttE ny it ms atsE .h€ri E Ere "
-fiirrrrp-",o l"? ;G-b; BE E!,Iti! been &ne. trrar -f-"ptf..I"t rp"d;i; of-tlp oratirrarne t},at rtEn IorE cr tlE OurEil I:?id I dicln,t agrie **'!F lnt€rpretatim. I thtnk th.tE Ctould get ttle bard,a ttinutes *i5i" *E*,"t.tx fira ;ilf-, r Eanit there ; , alff; ,:* H ffir^? ..!TS tretirg c alttrins. r uve rctrrffi--ii i--i lr re to onfirru c deny. Ibu crnI & that? ss r there to listen ti f.ur -li,'r
-";;;I;i;;".&rcllsrgr DLrrrler: Ibu. re rDt going to gret. rrrbatln }linutes ,U,E]r.
ffiLY ffrtsr: t.ru goirg to ger eE lin! of ilinutet. tn offlclal
Cburt,usr Drele. Et r ylll Erl 10rr raat trE rctlon 5s tf 30. urt tobDra tctlt lt ns. .v! -_5 sE rrarL.frrl Es ll lDu E
SlEffrul &lnson! lb. I Gnt tlE offlclal Hlrutes l[f,rorrd bg, lDu .s .rs6er of BE Eoad. rru qfnove:p,r. ur,"to-Lery t&E. rtren 1111 blr thls.
Cbrrtllmn .blrrEt! I*utts tlE brE!?
- tflttott-retrctr: Eiefly t Urlnk, to rmarfl
t'
cbrrEttrEn.rdrl8 t: tbt re l(!lbory rh ca aEFd furEora
o'
Cttr, CtEtl lGettng I gbvc$er 6; f9S9
Allott lt€tsdr: ,!htt.e correct.
e'Efiridr Jotnsor: rt doesn r t l,ke E,"e for .," to afflrrrr ' cplnron beforettE 1g ab:'s has erpird. ErIt Just tuve to-ao ft .gJi-f'. ld Ad:'' '
tlliott B€tsctr: I thln* the prrpoe of sltir.g to r e$.€qstt l=tirq F,,dDe D that ott=s r.tD rey feer.aeirl*i tc tt--d*i"r- pi:a Lr.-i-Jt ro. t"g* p-!l--b".lns d.pesent treir faaai. r* already ,*;di;i-th"i r" _
mj:r- so there rrll be ourErl rtrsr et*e ariirm,irs *-i*Eii^s tr=
Gl'Ellnan ,blrrsons fihat !s UE hrrlA
Gursilnran b:rt,: tEIl, letrs delde rethlrg.
lnlor Ctlrlel: f don.t e &y.
6r'EirDE r Jotnson: r ,.ure E J.ot c10- tte drgc'gslon Ed !D\re mto ltgrr g.-
Ityor Ctrrriel: I grEss e could.
Guci}rran b:rL i lttaterrer lDu Ert to do.
li1o. r clrlel: 'r'rtr aort of trrlstd inbetsr bre. r c.' urderit rd tlE
ry."iugn of tln-4plrcant !s Elr. !"tr"g t -goeea dtlr his rots trt m the
EIE;,{"H.'ffi
"":nifl
?:xti,3t"*1trs;*lE-lt,al".l4ut frotr the otlpr people ult}ln tfe courrnity.
Ol'EllEtl,r Dinler: r ag|re: lSSt. -try drl:, point ts that they are bforelllsrur. _rhe onr:, ordln rr e.tuye rrgtrt-rur i"-trp an trut [-L*-tffiretta.lbre losel!' pghaF than tlE'rntenE ss but tjr.t Es the .r"cblon or-* r".a
"rd +t. Es tlE rlght of ttE Boad to rruke ttrat oecrel.,. br;;; dr.[p=}j, { ftr *,orra tave trre b.nefir of trc tlhrrq-Ul"-ir.t-d$re tErcEroEe us. In.lt'3 m, erqlSrt. rtrEr chrEtl geta togettu ,u rrd e -lnterprct
tlre nrding ?1y- Ey ie snt to. I.b car, ar"r,g"'it. rt can r.!ve rt ure ! E ore can rrke it l@ser o( uhrterrer e ib vlti-tt, tEz ould ,p io-* Ulffect€at by that becauee rJE beneflt of tfn tining ;i.itlEy;;e-L?;.? *,thltr8 tIE ordlnare .rd ttE lntepretatlor that ir.rc *irg.--
Grrlbran nrrhun: Oe qrnstian. H ,. t,l!t b oE dvatige? .
Ourrlhursn Dlrrrrer: tt iart. B,t rr! e elsl,r lue to bcrEfit oEtelvEs or& e qnt to bsEfit qu cltlzts?
GberEttr,ran frrrhial! t thlr* *rt t .+, l, , --,...
O.rEtlnJr Jotnroo: ttrr cltl anr brr teltlng &ort.
CbrrEtlr"ri lStrhlEl! f free ,lth .El, ot thrt. t thlr{r E ctl|t Glt lrd ltnlthItla rp in .rarurary rd den a 6 -i; ld.----
OrrEthE r Jotrrscr: 6e lf ttrrc rle r!, otber qlgcda flld.
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Osrillsr Erhun: l.n rDt srrld &rt tiat. I,n Just aaylrg, Iet,a get...
ppr CLtiel: okay, gropr tstldr for thla FuId be?
Eliott ttr€tsdr: lb rcHule CE TPeal t-arlrE for a anbeilutt 6|,EiI
Eetltg.
;pr Chriel: dtay.
Orrriftial Bryt: _t Fuld EL ts"t daff bgtn g:radng tJre ordinance durqe
Uor,g tl= lirEs of ttr discllsslan Frte hd tontght. 6r.f! ttl.! * tne pl;'nirB
Cmrlssion at ttp rst q€rda Jd -e lf e can,i rutte ;Eqrreas m thie thtry. -
6llr11m'sr D!nl.er: t donrt lrypw tf strff carr gp dEd bg..ue tlE:, dton. t tsDwllrt drr, rry lnt€nt ls ,Dt to have lt rnlfondly 19, !eet. t don'thDr bEore4toftr elE feels. I tea E donrt lElre r omaenatB sr tlEt.
(hrEthtan Jotnson: lts cm take a ltrar poll rlght rou. I belleve .t tlE pint
the dek is at prr EtDuld ha\re at l€.at IrS fet.
OtrEll.Et r tri.nler: Brt rpt rnlfonral!,y throqhout?
cbl'Eilnm Jotnson: (L e\ren tlE .ver.ge.
&rEllErgl Dirrrler: ...lots are Just rDt Utat Erfect.
erciLim Jotyrscr: fb. f don.t $tnk tfE lrreralre rtpuld b ln ttere. I ttlir*.t the pint that )rp itock ls .t, ltErr drould have-at t..st fSS teei-ii dfrtpolnt.
ourilmran Dirnler: frd tley suld rr-et tl|at. ltrey orld iet tb.t.
orrEilr"an John8or: ltEy @tddpoaltlon. ![Et.s Fry opinlon.
tEt ttr.t b!, Fttlr€ ttE deL ln.u- propr
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@lrcltmst drrrter: lrd I agrree rtth n.
CrrElIlEt Jotnror: Ell Ut trr 2. It t ts l. 3.
CtrEtInJr Eqt: I Et Fbttc t'Irrt. titt lr ou of tJE rort srt .tdeitlnaes tn or ctgr.
Or'Gllrsn .bfnsm! I qEe.
&rrtlEgr Uhlcr: G.ttr bellle e rnb lt a.
&,lettrur.Ebur: lb. o '
CbTcltrwr Bo!t: IiEt !G $gurs rlghts to . b.rctrlot EEt E dqlrt rDr qrmt bl- tlrtlc E xUy re8ld€rltlat lot or a tate D I.n Juit t.yfuq, rart E.rr-)-rk€d&crrt, I ltint pf c?n &f!. l@Sf,rg: tf rcthffo cte, r[jri ,f-.i tp,, aaq, l.rt tlm lrd let.s gct thla thlq fn t}r biPs .rd ;e rnrt oo.ne'o,rt.F
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I OrEiltErt JoLnson ! I thlnk e have 3 ott of 5 rg,bers of rF 6rrc1l Eyinglh"t-!t -I nolnt.of trE.tod( E ned LSg f@r; rirs-rh"tEr;?6 -tb fl"anfrq Gn'nrlssion.
,t:Dr Chlel ! I $Ess tbtta baslc.ll:, r*Ere Erre at.
cb|rEth'r b:t: Arre. lhat.s grstble.
(br.tt a Johnsor: so r*Ere! I er* Irnr of drretr' .t t E sd of thrs.f lEtE E lrtt UE lEpeal ol th rst OtrEll ry€rda.
Ity,t Chtiel. s ts there . Edrit to tlEt?
OtrEit'rt blt: - lbr @r.t do that. f Fuld gefer 1ou ,Dt do ttEt. t can9*1 po, Irn-golng to be out of bh ar tlre ZiUr. you @t tDlit th.t over utiltlE rEt Eetirg ln E6er or I cln stt U-aays to tii" rrlf rp"f . -"
o.'Ellnan Jot,n'o'' rrn gprng to be ''t of br.n ', tlE uth too hrt trrn fl1dngb.ck for tlE neetirB.
&tEiLnJl byt.: t.rrr ir4reased.
cbr,EilliJt Jolursan: IEt beruse t}e re.Hrrle Ertd tiat E!r. t m1y have tobe ttrre untll rwt.
lipr Clrrrlel: Ird Jrlst lile to tep thls rrovtng.
Orrifnan Boyt: ,.1I I rculd llk" p keep ft rwvlrg. tetts & tlnpritinaren€nlErt- .T!t eirg rn a nurttr vra a hlr du be-rp tere rn f.ari-oi-* .ruE can sE.lght€n lt olrt lrd get it dd€.
& lnn olen: So l,ou dontt Ert rrre to ontlnrr tle 4;nau',. ,r
cb.rEtbg| b:/t: ^.tEll !E h. lbrr hilE to sttlnlD tte apeal. t.d pefer 5puto al, it to tlE first retlng ln EclDer.
EUiott BEtEch: th rtio of tJE_ brd of tdjushsrts b vrcatd perdirg trEqrtc@ of t-his epell. tE Cfty CbrrGlt rdfl f,rve dE flnd-def3f;;.
orrcirlrdr Jotrrson: r[Er trll mrre ur.t trre €eal lr buat tltr firet retlrgln&.
Cb|,Eihrn Eolts Erod.
9"*ll"?1 Jotnsdr tEed, O.rElLnal-blt rcodd to gl.ce tf,. {pe.f bufng!G tt? lnt€rpret tlqr 9f T+,8 Cdfnlrr-Elqufrqrg,tr of fgg f;f, fot acPthfc a &ck cr a rercatrmar baerrror .,.tu ti arstEai cii.ii-JJirii-1"r.gser. tll uotd ln tanor lrd t!. rotim carrld. '
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l€ did have a Ereconferenc€ presentation nith rbody's. TtE l€:,or participated.Hr. Asbrcrt} participated. ltcst of the najor deparaent heads. It w"assucressfrrl. ltod:rr s cqrrslts afterwards as tfey rere conveyed to us r.Erebasically rs.,re anticipated ard.as re tord po it tt previius vrcrkshop. Ttrcse
EYE grey did recogni ze there is a relatively high debt burden but that *.9ff=t !], t+ citl"s internal finarcial cordition-ard the grorth thai.s -occurred
ln tlE tax base, both in tle cqrrrrerciar area ard in t}le relidentiar area so tlEtcoqrled witi the cqrrEnts re got frorr tte insrrrers because the], db a Ee[,araterisk analysis or credit rating. Ttp insurers t€ got arr extrerret:, cq,,Fiiti.r.bid frq'r tte. insurarrce tr=opre ard their csmrents were that perhab ttidlr's nasoff base a littre bit in being too clnservative with p* .i.ait'rating'ana Brisrns FGIC, the lcm bidder m arl of the, for tte ins,rrare 6r arr three so thatms f,airly teu ing so re tlrink tlre credit rating situation is perhaps "Guirir"aard re didln.t get, othe[ than those general curirents, ottpr tfun a iot ofrurni.rg arourd at tlE rast $nS9, n,rrh nore negative rrq'. tlE o.aii -.iiing
agercies so rE think re're in fairry god shaF there. r thtnk ttE st"ai did ayely eood jd in terms of tle presentation arrt t}re nrl,riad of Eestions I hadfollor-rp after that so I think that should be menti6ned * .e'[. rt= ii"t$itg r have is tle City lras a pol icy of pre-payring aLl it,s ."gi"t .ii* t "".ltpse are tlE armual fees of rraintainirg the bord Iss,res. ftpd are dorE bwtrust agents. I€ r€nt through a ca\petitive bidding [rrocress and got t]re a iaiorfir]'s in the r\.rin cities. rhe lory bidder there $as- Norr€st by a 6onsiderabl.eFargin. ltn1, bid an arount of SLg,2gA.gg for aII tluee issrrei total for theentire ten'r of that. rhat is approxiFatery 30t less than tlE next lorEst bidde,:so re've had sq'e corversations with lloneit. Ihey, ve been anxious to get backlnto tIE registration business ard r€,ve tord ths\- their pricing is ioo't lgt .rdt.tny sea'ed to have listened ard tIe:, have givei 1ou a veiy, gooi Ui, so € rruldreccrFErd as part of the resorution, awardirg the sales ttnt-atso tiat llorrestbe na'red as the- paldng agert for aLl. three lssues. so rrd be glad to receiveany EEstions that :,ou have.
l{a1or Gldel: An}' questions?
CotrEibran Jotnson: orne again scrre favorable bids.
!'ta]ror ClDdeI : ln:r discussion?
Courcifumran Diriler: cood j6.
!{apr Chriel: You bet. Nice je.
orrEtllttal librls* l: tlrich se of tjrese bad issrres @vers our salar!?
Eve Hac€illivrar:r: Ihe little orE.
oourrilrrran Jottnsm s rhere lsnit fie geu €nolryh for tlat. rtis kina oflnterestirg tl,.t ttE nriddte of dE i72S,SSL.OS'otE, tf :pu-foi,f i.t "i tf=lEopre that bid are breaklng rp of_ tlE big conglc'erate- that borryht t}e b19lssr- ard tlE tF bigger iEsue6. Brt theiers itiri ec*-coqgelilil:- '
Eve l6cci 1l ivrar]': rtrrer s a differ€nt rErket for taxable bonds and they havedifferent custcrErs tltat ttEy sell tho- t . Ibxable borrls are stiff an-evolving nErket ard tlis ls a ver:, agrelsive bld.
City 6urci1 tGeting - Decgrber 4; 1989
23
Cit!' Oourcil l€eting - Deceber 4, 1989
Courci IrEn Johnson: Brt onl:, 2 of the IEopIe that bid on tnis sre, rEren I t part
of tle winners on the other 2. Itrs just kird of interestirg.
bn A.shtDrth: If I ma!' lhl'lcr, Ird like to csrgratulate Eve, ttE rrcrk of
Sprirgsted in tens of, the uhole selection proc-ess tok much Lorger than I
think any of us had anticilEted ard of course re knew that eE had to sell bordsthis lzear ard brirgirg this issre, or these issrres into FErket this late in the
lear ard as quickllz as re did and as txofessionalll' ard to receive tten the sarre
bids as an A ratd cqrnunity. I F€an thatrs at least a quarter of a lErcentthat could have been different frq'r tlEse so I think Eve ditl an exc.ellent job
in all areas.
!6]10r Ctniel : Yes.
CourEilrEn l{orloran:
fhank 1ou. Do I have a nptlon?
I'd hove a[proval.
Secord .
Ard t{oritEst Bank as the pying agent.
Corrrilw'an Di:riler :
Oor:rrilnan Johnson:
Esolution t89-135 (a) : Courrilrran lgorkFEn nrored, Courcilwcnon Di:rrler secorded
to arnrd tlle General obligation lFprovgrEnt Bord, Series 1989A to First Bank
llational Association for a price of $615831599.00 with a net interest cost of
$3,513,291.67 at a rate of 5.3858t with tloreEst Bank as the pying aqent. AII
voted in favor ard the Fotion carrieil. t .
Resolution *89-135 (b) : Courcilnran l{crkrran roved, Cotrlcihs'ran Diriler =corriedto anard the Taxable Ceneral Obligation lbx Ircrgllent Bord, Ser ies 19898 to!{iller, Johnson & Kuehn, Irc. for a price of $720,659.90 with a rEt interest r
cost of $251,258.33 at a rate of 8.3175t with lbrcEst Bank as the payirg agent.
AII voted in favor ard the notion carried.
resolution *89-135 (c) : Courcilrran lgorkFEn morred, Oourcilsxrtran Djriler secorrted
to arEld the General obligation Corporate trrrpose Bord, Ser ies 1989C to First
Bank !,lational Association for a pr ice of 9824,145.90 uith a net interest cost of
$4881271.67 at a rate of 6.5284t with Ncrr€st Bank as tle paying agent. A1l
voted in favor ard the motion carried.
APPEAL DMISION OF IHE B&RD tr ADJUSI}{EiIIS AID APPEAIS 10 INSIALL A rcK ON A
BEBCX{IIN, ROBERT PIERCE.
Jo Ann Olsen: At ttE last rreetirg @wrilr*rribers Johnson arrt Bolt requested an
aI,[Ea]. to the Board of Adj ustnents' decisist so thatts the reaso itrs brought
back tonight for discrrssion. egain, Just in review, t5e Board did agrrove tbe
atrpeal.
24
!A],or Ch'del s anlt discussion?
Courcilru'an Dfuiler: Yes.. Itrs real confusing.
ualror ctrdel: lElI , it reall!, is but.
courrit'ran Johnson: titEt r€'re doirg tonight is rearly guiilirg the pranningc*mission because r*ren re nake this decislon tonight r-,"6 *" Lriirq-o"Plannirg Ccrnrissim wtEt our opinicr is.
Fter Beck: Of the existing ordinance.
Oourcilrqan Johnson: Of tte ",<istirg ordinance ard ttren re,re sayirg, nooPlanninq ca,mission rpw FEke tle existing ordinarce read rmeqrrivicaiiy tne o*ythat re...
ooEEirrrcnan Dinfler: !b. I{e're rDt givirg t}rerrr gridance as to bow to ar.end theordinance. t€tre just sayirg this is -troc, fo interpret ttE present ordinance toread.
CourEilnan Johnson: Okay. Brt, I BEan ]rou can interlxet ttris anyray lrou sEnt.rt is_ vagrE
.
encugh to utrere it can be in-terpretted eiiher ;t ,".y''E"iir,. rfwe lake an interlxetation one ray or tle other, re are sa1"in! tUi is ourprefererne of the *ay ne want it.
Eter Beck: l,lr. l,b]ror, Oourcik'rarber Johnson. Itere is also, I donrt like to!.irS p legal issues byt ],ou can.censult your City Attorrey, theie i.s i fegafissrre in ternrs of r*En it can.be interpretiea eitfir re1r. ft -*t-Lf, tt=
Irro.IErt!, owtler gets the benefit of the doubt rririch is wil, re even Uottrei tobring tle r*nle thing q) at all.
OourciIIEn Johnson: Just because if you want to go to cgurt? r'
hter Beck: t€11, holEfurly tle cor:rrir rculd do the right thing irregard-less.
oourcilwo.n Dirriler: At this point r rDuld n,ore that E whord the decision orthe. Board of ndjustsrrents ard AEpear.s. r?rat the interpretaiion oi tt,. p."""ntordinanoe is that as rorg as. it n*ets^the requirs*nt of rgg feet depti anynnereon t}Ie lot, it doesn, t have to be rnlform tlutugtout.
lbyor ctnriel: Is there a secorr!?
Cowcilnran l{crkrran: Are }rou salzing a[prove t}E atcck t rsula?
oourcirncnan Dirrrler: No. rrrn sayirg alpro\re tte interpretatior of theordinance as it is written today. t*,.t- tj,e Board of aaj,rsureni.rra ap."r=interpretted it.
Oourrilnnn l{crloan: r&rich is b rDt allos the dek at t}ris point?
ourcil$arran Dirrrler: lb: qlidt- is-to sa:, that it does FEet tIre requirarsrt ofr.!s f2t: abpth at orE point in tle lot. rherefore, it neeG e= i6iiio.o,t" otthe ordinarce.
Eter Beck s Brt the dck tras to 9o through a cprrlitional rse penrit.
ouycilnran t{orlsrEn: nro po want to wholit that atpro\ral of a dck?
City oorrrcil lGeting - Decsrrber 4; 19g9
29
City Cowcil ttseting - Decsrber 4; L9g9
&urci hu,.an Diml.er: r rEnt to rryhord the decision of tlE Boald of ldjrrsbEntsard Appeals to tlE interpretation of tte present ordinarce.
Ourrilnran Johnson: Ihey havenrt aplled for the dock.
l6yor Ctrrlel: ltey have. ftrey have to go through the prcless on theclrditional use.
@urEillrcran Di.rriler: Ihel' stiU have to 9o throrrgh the gxocess of tlecorditional r'ce IEEhit ard if tley rrla!, ne€al a variare oi not.
Eter Beck: I{srre rpt going to ask for dE. lb. I{9 got t}at nEssr.ige.
Ourcilrwr trlr:rloan: I sDuld secord lt.
corrrcirncran DjJri[er Foved, courcilnran Isrtiqan secorded to rphold the decision oftlE . Board of Adjrstnents arrl Atrpeals tttat ttE interpretation of tte present
ordinance for a dek on a beachlot is tlEt as tong is it rveets the requirarentof the 100 feet ilepth any*tere ql the lot, it doesn't bave to be uniforrrthrorghout. AII voted in favor artl tlE Fption carried.
CourEilrEn Johnson: A c.cnrEnt, ntrictr l{ednesday night Irnr not going to be ableto talk to t}le Planning Cq'nrission. IrlI probabl!, call a few of tlrgrr. t*Et I,dIike to see is that the dock should go at the point of Lgg or greater feetdepth. If tlEtis rpt possible for scrre reason, that tlEre shoufd be a niinilrrlrof 75 feet wtrich doesnrt hrrrt you guys at aII.
Eter Beck: ltEt I s ver:, doable for r:s .
Courriltran Johnson: ltEtrs ver!, doable for you ard I rDuldn.t rrant b see a
dock get an:' closer ttEn 75 feet to tlE €rd of tlE tEotrErt]r.
Oourrilrf,'an DiJiLer: I rpuld also like to direct staff to wrlte a letter to
l,tarlr lbore to explain this confrrsion because r= dldnrt l'r'ralerstard it and I donrtthink ste has less of a charce of urderstardirg o<actly e,hat the Board did arrluttat ttE Oourci I did ard Hhat the planning &'misslon is going to do. Ind that
she can still cqre to the plannirB Oonsrisslon rpetirB ard have alI tte lnp:ttlere at tlEt point.
ourEifttan Johnson: As veal as the lake l{innerastrta hatssrers have been inttE [rast, it's surprisirg ttEy havenrt been bere.
@UEST IO rtr.J.ETE INIEREST CIS,RGES CAI A DEE'ERRED ASSESSMENT, {gO1 ASTER MAIL,
HEUIY GEIqS/OPAL SCHRAIi.
Gar:r lhrren: I q,as asked b revien the [equest frqn t]e essr correrninq t]Edeferred assessrent for t roject tib. ?3-1. -ItE staff report ks based ar5urd tle
docuents that t€re stlrritted ty the essr ant the Schrarrr E here. Esically
rEive revielied t}le project ard the basis for t}e assessrslt andt fowrt that ltms reasonable in that sanitary eerer ard raterrrnln are alorg tlE $utberl!, IErtof tle property ac.cessible to the propert!, arrl that ln nqr opinion t}e benefit ls
3S
City brnril leeting - Decsrser 4, 1989
Corrcilm\an Disiler :
rent through this.
I thorrght ttE Board alproved the inter[xetation of. V€
llalor Grriel: If the Board alprwed tlEt unanirlrousl]r.
Councilroan Dlr[er: ltE interpretation. Ard that it r*as r4r to &urcil tocbarge t-te rcrdlng if ttny so desired.
l{alor ctrrier: Right. change witrin the ordinance in itself. ctarification asI tpve here.
CorrEilnran Dirrrler: I think tlntrs ntatrs cvrfusing here.
ewEilr'En Johnsm: tErve got to get scFE kird of action qr charginq.
Ma:,or cllriel: As I reviet€d sq'E of theof AdjrlstsrEnts ard City burcil feel ttEa recreational beachlot to have at least
beacttlot, qncifically hrtlere the dock is
stpuld be alErded to clarify that intentIf thatrs tle feelirg of Courcil.
staff rEtes. It sa:rs tere, the Boardintent of the ordinarEe was to require
lOq feet of depth frcrr so're area of tlleproposed, th€n tlE zonirg ord inance
ard that tte a;peal strould be a[f)roved.
courcilltan Jotrnson 3 Did re get any ingrt frcn any of the rake hdqeohrrersassciations?
o.lrEilErEn Dirrler: IrtsIl, lou did get this letter and I just Fssed it ort.jrrst got it rfien I got back so ard I guess she,s the onlf, 6r= tirrt i heard fro,rtlut sas also confrrsedl as to rfiat es going dl ard uhat tle dates ardeverl'thing. rEs that becarrse rp switched irc'r tte first ard third ard vorrtlnught r€ rEre still an tlE secord arrl fourth?
Jo Ann Olsen: fttat. s @rrect.
CourEilmla l Dinler: So stp ras a little Frt out about the dat€s.
ig ry O}:!"t Ste ms yes, ard E did serd another notiae out to ever:,orEtlough yitn tlE clrrect dates.
6t Eilmm Dinrer: otay. . errt tln otler thing ls, r gEss r.nr ccrfused as tot.t!y the plarnirg &rnrissisr is goirg to took at this or the 5th.
Jo Anr ol-n: tb Ee directed to tEoceas a zoring oEdirErEe a'grarglt ardthat's r.hat te rere doirg.
&rucilsran Dirnler: so that.s rdrat they. re goirg b be doirE?
Jo lrm Olsen: Iea.
OorrEilElEn Diniler: So *lat are e going b be dotng tonigtrt?
Jo Ann ol.sen 3 rhere Es an aE€ar to ttE Board of Mjustst entsr decislm r*rereyou revier*d it ard said that tlte lnterpretation r,as ircorrect. rhat tfE mvtte ordinare is nrittgr today, tte applicant reets $hat tre ordlinare statdright rDrr.
I
25
City' Courci I l,tseting - Decs'ber 4; 1989
CotrEilwq'En Dirriler: Ihatis what ttE Board of AdjrEu'ent ard AI{EaIs?
Jo Ann Olsen: Bjght.
6rrri lu,an Drniler: Okay, arrl then Corryrilnan Bo]rt ard Johnson appealled that
ard so reire srqrcsed to do what?
Jo Ann Olsen: Yourre sq[)osed to review ttE aI[EaI to that tlecision.
Oorrrcilws'En Diriler: lb rprrier I in so confused.
l,blor Ctlriel: I think I rpu1d just n[, orn opinion. I rDuld just as soon glve
it back to the Plannirg @'mission. Ca€ l.[) with a verbage before eE e\ren EEssm tlEt.
Eter Beck: Or tle a!trEal?
talror ctrhiel : Right.
Fter Eck: I€11, l{r. l{a}ror, ttErers also ki/rt of a hlstor:r here. }b're kird
of goirg throrgh exactly uhat happened before to 86. In ottEr rcrds, lE sent
through the Plannlng Oq'nrission ard t}e Oouncll m his plat and everlbody agrreed
that the dek nrade serise but ttE didnit thir* tlE orditiarr allosEd lt so tle1,
said you stpuld rrait unti I rF atEnd tbe ordinanc€. I?ten tlE orit lnance a'rndtent
proc.ess starteal ard lt rrent all tlE ra1, through ard it got to the 6urci1 ard
they ca'e W witi trp different options anat tlE Corrcl l didnrt agree sr t*rich
ore ard rEver [Essed an ordinance. So in a&ition to Hantirg to save a cor{,le
rrurths right alay, re're afso a little bit afraid that tlE ordinance arrerrdtgrt
Ixc€dure nright follow ttE sae track that it did ard E erd r4> another 4 or 5
or hore rrsrths down tbe roail without a resolution. So again, it seenrs to be the
sense of the Oourcll that ttE proposal FEkes sense. thatrs rdtEt ttE orillnance
25
6r.uci lnran l{orlosn: I thought t}e happy cq\praqise Es t}Et tErre going to look
to cbarge it ard rothirg r,as goirg to haFpen this winter an:'eE:'. Is tlE
aFpl icant anx iorrs or furSntient or both or r*I, canit e rnit as torq as Erre
goirg to FEke ttE change? llh:, can't it vait? lttat was rq:' biggest qrEstior
r*En I read it. V*ty is this back? I thorrght re had kind of had a happy
sqqrro'dse. I knot :,our re goirg through the proc€ss ard itrs l,c)ur right to do
tllat but I thorryht r€ r€re heading in t}lat direction an]'$a]r.
Fter Beck: trt. lE)ror, Oouncilrran vbrk\an, itrs firE to charqe the ordinarrce.Itnt strould be done brrt in ttp FEantirrE, if Bob could save a coqrle rrronths.
Irts've already appl ied for the corditional use [Ennit ard if 1ou fird in our
favor on this agpeal, that wtll just, itrs consi stent with the ordinance anltlow.It rDrrlilnr t af fect anlM]r except Bob ard lt rnuld give hi.rn a cor{)le er<tra
nstths to narket ard sell scne hcrqes on those 3 lots. Ihe curditional asepenrit is alreadf in tte preess. It could go ahead at the nent Plannirg
Ccrnrission rEeting if t}te appeal ls r$reld. Eally tley' re rDt , as I urderstandit, I baven't se€n the zonirg ord inarEe arlerdllent but it rDuldnr t sa:' an:{hing,.
different than t]re atrpeal d€s. It tould just clear q) $le ordinance. In other
rords, you'd be sayirg tonight this is wtEt ttE ordinance sa)rs ard ttren wherr yorr
adopt the ordj.nance you'd say r€rre golng to Drake it clear as to r*|at it says in
tlE text.
City Corrrcil l€eting - Dec€$'ber 4; 1989
Feant and all rre're asking is that ],ou go atread ani say that 1ike the Board ofMjnstrrents did. Like tte staff did. fhen atterd to the ordinance in due tine.the ordinarrce ar€rdr.rent. Itts tfE t$D reasons. ltE tining plus the fear tlEt
there rDn't be an agreanert frcn 4 courcillrerrbers on tle ordinarEe anerdrent.
!{a1or GrrieJ.: Yeah, it takes four-fifths.
Oouncillran Johnson: Ha agreeal to hear this a[{Eal at the nerat 6urci1 reetirg.
Coucilsutran Diniler: ltutrs this one.
Courcilrran Johnson: No. the rext orE after tlris qre. I€ had set it this se
ard Bill said hers goirg to be out of tor;r so rc charged it ard said thefollorirg brrEil neetirg if I rsrgber clrrectl]r.
Jo Ann Olsen: No. lte Minutes strcqr tte first reeting in Decgrber.
Peter Beck: It rEs 2 neetings ago that er3 t€re tere ard it r,puLct ron'nlly cu'rerp in the ne,(t orE when Bill said te ms goirg to be gone.
I'tayor ctlriel: Bill ras rnt going to be out of tor"n. tl3 r€nt out of tow'r
unexpectedl:r.
Eeter Beck: So in the neantjrE re filed orr atrplication for a conditional use
Pendt assu'drg re rpuld be able to stalr dl schedule here.
Jo Ann Olsen: Again, tle atrpeal is to tpw the ordinance is writterftoday. Not
necessarill' ritat yorr think ii stDuld sa:' or r{tEt it iriu say in a few rnoiths.
OourEilrrcran Djrriler: Yes, thatr s r*Et tlE Boaril ruled an.
Jo Atrn Olsen3 lt's nhat it sa!6 toda:r.
Peter Beck: l* dsrrt nean to be prejudg ing $hat :rou have to do on tlp arrendrrgrtat all. I€rre jrrst lookirg at utrat it says toda:' in light of all tledisorssions over tle last almost 3 years with Bobis deal.
Oourciu,an Johnson: Okay, technicalit:, of lot depth of depth of lot basicalllr.
Peter Beck: lttat i s exatl:, right .
Courci lnran Jotnsm: Is lot deFth t}e sarre as say,ing a lot with a Lgg f@tdepth. Is that the sare as saf irg a lot depth of lgg feet? hhat the Board ofApeal has said, r.tdch is different than $hat ierve been goirg rnder for tlelast 3 years, rtas that it is different to sa:' that the lot sttaU have a depth of
100 feet versus saying a lot depth of 109 feet.
Courcilrman Dimler: fihat does it sal?
!.la:ror Ctmiel : lte ray tte ord inanc.e ls nritten, it i s rEt reall], clear ttEt thedefinition of lot depth a6p1ies. Itrs just a requirsnent of tle lgg feet.
Courcilnen Jotnsm: Rigtrt. the lot strall have a dlrpth of 190 feet or a ];0Ofoot dbpttr I think.
27
Citl' Courcil lbeting - Decerber 4, 1989
&urEit En Johnson: ltris is kird of a reversal of staff with tlE rew qitv
Planner.
I'ta1or Ctrtriel : VIEt the], talked previousllt eas tlE location rfiere the dock is
ProPosed tns approxirratel], 95 feet of depth. Ttris is to the ord inarlt high rnternnrk. If FEasured to r*ere tle existing water Iine is today, the area ntrere tlre
dock is propos€d has at least Ig0 feet of depth. In ttE area to tlE north oftte dock FEets ard exceeds the 1S0 foot depth.
Peter Beck: Ard rerll nrore it in the corditional use perrrrit to ttre Ig0 foot.
Courrilnnn Johnson: You have?
Beter Beck: l€ have or re will.
Jo Ann Olsen: You have 100 feet.
Cor:rci lrrran Johnson: At the point tlE dck's at rEasured perpendlcular to thelake? a
Jo Ann Olsen: Right. In tlle rEy, zoning, rEr re getting off track again br-rt the
proPosed zoning ordinare arrerdrrent rith l,our e,(aqple again, thatrs shere ttE
DtilR preferreil to have tlp sarrt beach ard t]re acck so tlE!' might rnt recessarilf
have the 190 feet there. If therers envirorrrental factors lhere therer s a I0g
foot depth nright rot be tlE best place to have the dek. If there,s t:ees or if
there's slope.
@urci lnan Johnson :
for a dock?
Blt if t}erers Onl:' 20 foot dePth, that's rpt a good place
Jo llnn Olsen: litEn !,ou go through the csditional. use petmit, thatrs r*en you
have that otrportunity to sa], where the dck ges.
Eter Beck: See in this instance eE can lrrt the dek r*pre tlerer s a tgg f6t
of dep,th. It doesn't FEke the npst sense to Frt lt there becarree tbatrs r.here
the IIIR insisted the beach be brt tlEtrs an lggle re can deaL wlth in tle
corditional use petmit. For Frrposes of tlE lnterpretation, all E $ant to krEwis if it goes $here itrs Ig0 feet is that okalr.
Oouncilnnn Johnson: I thlnk ua ne€d to clear ql tln ordinarne. It's Gsential.
Corrrcilcuen Dj.nrlex: Brt *lat e're dolng lue bnight ls either Wholding orrot r.rpholdirg the decision of the Board of edjustnents ard AIEeals. l{bat the
ordinance sayrs will be dae in t}e Planning Grmission cr tEdnesday and then
tlEyi ll bring tjtat back to us so all rE treed to deal with rpw is are re saying
that tlE depth has to be miform tlrougiDut, I0, feet or does Just me p1ace. If
1tt6 just sE place of the lot, does lt n€et ttE ordlnarce?
28
Peter Beck: A little bit nore backgrourd. It onl!' requires the 100 feet for a
dek. In other $ords, a beachlot without a dock doesn't require the 100 feet.
If :rou r€nt a dek, :lou rieed t}le 1S0 feet . lttat I s $tt:r the interpretatlon of
staff ard the Board that it rould only FEke sense ttten that the!,'re talkirq
about Ig0 feet rtEre tte dock is.
i
CITY OA CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND EENNEPIN COUNTIES, UINNESOTA
CONDITIONAL USE PER"II{II
4 Termination of Permit. The Cit.y may revoke the
l. Permit. Subject to the terms and conditions set
forth herein, the City of Chanhassen hereby grants a conilitional
use peruit for: Recreational beachlot
2. Propertv. The permit is for the following described
property in the City of Chanhassen, Carver County. Irlinnesota:
Outlot A, Stratford Ridge Subdivision
3. Conditions. The permit is issued subject to the
following conditions:
The Council approved the conditional use permit for arecreational beachlot as shorrn on the plan stamped nReceived
February 18, 1988" subject to the follorring conditions:
a. The recreat.ional beachlot shal1 not have a dock'or carroerack(s) unless a variance to the lot depth reguirement isgranted by the Board of Adjustments and City Council.
b. The proposeil dock sha1l not have 4 overnight slips unless avariance to the limitation of overnight storage is granteil bythe Board of Acljustments and City Council.
c. A11 additional standards established for a recreationalbeachlot in the Zoning Ordinance must be met.
at. A tree removal plan must be submitted to the City anil DNR for
approval prior to any alteration to Outlot A.
e. The applicant shall provide a detailed grading and erosionplan for the recreational beachlot for staff approval.
pernit following a public hearing under any of the following
circumstances: naterial, change of condition of the neighborhood
ohere the use is locatedi violation of the terms of the permit.
I
5. Criminal Penalty. Violation of the terms of this
conditional use permit is a criminal misdemeanor.
.."i;'\'t t Dated: February 22, 1988
, r',
i ;, trl
i' 1,.''lr-i'
i. ",;,1 I1,- "" ".,,,,,u,u,,,,,',,
CITY OF
Its
Its C er
SEN
By:
By:
STATE OF I{INNESOTA))ss
COUNTY OF CARVER )
azgo^r'"1Mayor, anda Uinnesota
ef r ing instrumen tw
6_
as acknowledged before me this
, by Thomas L. Hamilton,1
Don Ashwor , City ManaEer of the City of Chanhassen,
mun lc I pal corporation, o -behalf of the corporation.
Notary Publ
CITY OF
EH[NH[ESEN
December 11, 1989
Dr. Charles Hirt
7007 Cheyenne frail
Chanhassen, llN 55317
Mr. Robert Pfankuch
100 Sandy Hook Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Mr. Stephen Frost
80 Sandy Hook Road
Chanhassen, ltN 5 5317
Dear Gentlemen:
The city has received the letter from the Department of Natural
Resources ilatetl December 6, 1989, in regard to your violation
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-s739
Ihe City hto determisatisfy th
a lterat i on
as been waiting for the DepartEent of Natural Resources
DNR has made their final determination te are now ab1€ to pr
filllett
mate
Lake
along Lotus Lake. The Department of Natural Resources
er states that you have voluntarily agreed to remove the fill
rial placed below the ordinary high rtater elevation of Lotus
and that the lestoration shall be completed by trtay 1, 1990.
ne exactly what extent of fill aeeded to be removeeir reguirements prior to proceeding with your wet
permit application on file with the City. Since
our application. The City needs a survey submitted from
ree parties shoving the area of fillr the ordinary high
mark and the area of fill that will be rertoved as required
DNR. Although the violatioa of the DNR legulations has
esolveil, the action is stlll in violation of the Cityrs
d ordinance and you are sti1l required to go through the
d Alterati.on Permit proce38.
il to
lanil
the
oceedlwitall
rrat
by
bee
wet
Wet
hy
th
er
thenr
Ian
1an
The next application deaillines are January 8, and January 22,
1990. we are requesting that you proviale the reguested survey by
December 11, 1989
Page 2
either January 8 or ilanuary 22, L990. If you cannot nake theapplication by these 9ates please submit a letter stating why theapplication needs to be postponed further.
Should you have any questions please feel free to contact ne.
S incerely,
)at>-1%-^
JoAnn Olson
Senior Planner
JO:n
City Council
Planning Conmiss ion
Paul xrauss, Planning Directo!Pat Lynch, DNR
CITY OF
EH[I{H[EEEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Decsber 22, L989
Eesse Fam B@r:cerE AsseiaticrAttn: !t. Emrd Noziska
Presicbnt
1120 Hesse Farm Road
Chaska, uN 55318
In a tlo\rcmber 15, 1989 Letter to the Ctqr, ttE Eesse Fa]I E@{ners Asseiation
(Asseiation ) had reqrested tnat staff a&ress aeveral issrcs in writing per-
taining to Bluff Creek Drive. Ycxr rnd I hatt the cporturity to verbally revien
several of tbese itss at the lrunk Aigttray 212 grblic infomation aeeting heltl
No\r€mbel 15, 1989 so I feel tlat E([E disclrssidl on these Btters has already
been csrductett. tile\r€rtlE1e6s, rsi rqlD6ted I siII att€q)t to adilress your @n-
oerns as best I can here.
I Sta Sisn ReCIl,Est - In early Norder, t}re Ciq, o&rcted traffic oErts at
tlre intersectfqr of Bluff Creek Drive antl ll6se erlo R6tt to revier ttp
'Errant- status for gtEli&ing t]re interEectio for a forr*y stq, dt-Aitio. Cr Norraber 9, 1989, a :.etter defiyiDg the re$Est Es Eileal to trls.
Susan Rectr rfiidt I preslr ba6 beeD ouicateil to tJte rest of the elgh-borH. I baee attadtedt a oIry of tne No\rEEber 9, 1989 letter rftici goes
itrto tne dbtaila for tjp denia.l d tle teql-st. b lrymn t a teras,
acsordirq ttre tilfoa l,trnnal o Eaffle 6t!o1 *viea r$icb tne Citft ie
requileat h!, 8tatute to follor, the Besse Elro Real traffic Ir to lfl in
crrpariecr to tlre Elrtrf Credc tEive traffic to JtEtify tJd lnstdJlticr of aforr*y stq) dilitio..rB aotd tn txe Notder 9lettcr, tle u8e of stq)
signs to outright @otrol q,eeal ia Dt t-@naled as tJEre are Dqatirre
rdnificaticrs sbicfi tesult tD tbit t ,pe of u8eage. tE clrt er 6Dtl'
Stcriff rs Depar@rt ha8 been Dottfl'Gaf rDdt it ls ny uderstandling srtlot-s
to vigilantly Erit r +eedls o gtrtrf Cred( Drive !B uEtr aa stdf @it-Eltt all('.s. A6 a IErt of the state-Aid ilesigatidt of tbia tad, tlE cit!,
annualty is reguired to t ke Eaffic @ltt8 o thia ruilay. I ba\re
dlirectedl our Engileering atrff to lnchde taklng corrts o tle Eesse hlo
Rctt Begrente of tbis intereectio as eLL, sudr tbat re can qrtine to
revien the slrr.nt oilitio for thia intereectlo anal respoal accorAiryfy.
ItEse coErts lre bmlly td(eD ahrriDg t}e arer mtha and ltou ca! be Bro,-
vidlett rith a co5ry of tle reaults ff reqrEst€al.
Re: Eluff Creej< Drive
Ploject No. 80-5
Der lilr. Noziska:
lf. Eorald lloziska
Decernber 22, L989
Pap 2
2. Trun (212 @rneet - 18 yul ale EErhaps Ir infully arare, Elrff CreeJ<ve w tlte City as a State-Aid roadny In order fora road to grElify for State-Aidt EtatuE tt rnust bave rsrtinuiQr. ritlr ottrer
r srcur that speed ontrol ia an irqnrtant safety @nceln for this road asrEr[ as any ottpr red rtpre violatidlB are er:rring. rt Day be rort]nrtrilefor the Asseiaticr to @ntact t]re sdt@1 District, t6 aee if itre tns sttould not be relocated off of Blr:ff Creek Drive drto Eesse Farm noad. Iknc*r this rrould add ..nE tl',e ard an a&ritional picJr-rp n" aorug i* -tj,.
sc$@1 Distrist, but r berierrc ttrat ttris Bight be a mie psitirrc ana airectsolutidl at least to the EcIEol drildren aafety iesrc.
State-Aid roads and have Eufficient rl,olrrrFc of t;affic for ttre State tojustify alleing State funds to be stEnt dl naintenanae andl qrstrrrtion ofthe roadways. Eluff Creeh Drive has oristed as a State-Aid rod sine I9?2
( Eee attached resolution). Ib cssider tle roadray as a rrresidential
street' I beliern is nisleding aine tie roattra-yt6 useage, ontinuier, andimportanoeto the Citlt's roadray netsrork inclica te ortherwise. GE City'soprelensive plan also qgraaea this roadrray to a ollector Btatus in 1987.
3
As_ you are arare, tbe Cier is rer ltivel-V deficient, drre to t4ography andother various lani use reaso.ls, of gmil- nort{,/soutn reilnays.' itl"'tf,ere-fore- logical that this roa&ray rirl-oqnriacL rncreasea ui*g" ."-uE p".on irhen- rrunk listmr 212 is cqrstructed in this area setin6 after theyear 2000 anil lard use urtfurately iDtensifies. AB sttrn ar ure attac*redTrutrk Highr€y 2r2 er(e4)t, Bruff cee.k Drive des Dot h.\re a direct orurec--tlon to.the prqosed I'trJnk EigtrEy 2r2. rhis tlerefore norrd dirniniatr itsattrastiverEss to a certain elctenl; tprre\rer, !,rou are ara"e E i" pusi-Uf. toutilize-this rednay to accas rn:nk gighei -ZfZ ane Or"rtlr-R."d-it-i;exterded frcm pisreer I?aiI to ltur< BigtrEi 212.
r have adced the ogarmnt of ransportltidr r 8 Engireer, EEld Neerltes andAsseiates, to revier,v the B1rff crea< Drtve traff6 fo&;A for -in"
T".,rrkBigtn*ay 212 srditian andr wirl b" b.Err to rqort trps. res,rts t" yo;-;*obtained EqEtirE in tJ,e E:rt eer,"rar iontrrs. r an Dot ertai' a, -to trr"hsis.for your urclusidr .ti.t the rqdt la rct c.Fhle otr Bafelaarcdating tle
-
traffic it r.o.dd drar' giae t-t,e rod'tras u".r-r+60"a -ac'cordane rith state at:ndards rlttl tbe secent qrstfirctloo i5 iE-*trj.dth wlttr!, Do paddng dtcrEat.
fFseTEnts - Yil qEEtioned ttre ratioale for oly assessirg thlee |lrits cDErle. r.r.u-acre prot to tre Erti of Eease ED at tne iatersecEio of pisser
ffi :&trJ,ffi .TT;"ffi &ir*liy,H,ltrffi-r#oncl,,.icrs as to futune pcaenty-devar@nt for rrprattear -a;. -r. tb"ff of ttE at$Ject prcperty; E-Gre r.-o-r 6g1 a fiO-acri "1f,-;,ie;"rnteTr-wted t!, tfE Blnff credr ravine !.tra lDd rtridr nrtinately E rld be:ielili31*-y_l*=l** by tne reletion ot ilrt cr""r. Drii";- E"r::-Er-ry, Ii4-I. +2 .-,.qreq.m_ acrivitl,. GE attadrear pr." exc;ryEnas Den rncllE€al $trich rh(,rs -tie dlisreeian rryact o tbis dQerty fttrthe re-r,outing of Bluff Gredr Drire. rt hE cirr'oc}sro aitei rei,ie,rlrrgtbege ateuerts trtat ttrre raits uurld be qrsritent riur trre eurcni-lao
tt. So,raril t{oziska
Dec€sber 22, L989
Page 3
Gt{:lrtm
Attac:trents:
, P.E.
1. Asseiatian lett€r dtateal [@tnber 15, 1989.2. No\reober 9, 1989 faffic Chttr tt€e letter.3. state-Aiit resolutio.{. Ehiff Creel( tloile prelnniaary plat.5. $ilJ< aigttEy 212 rigtrtd*y Lq)acts o
BLuf f Cred. t{oods.6. eu& Eidtrtlt 212 EIS f4'otrc.
E Ctmiel, llyor
S@tt garr, &affic Safety @itteeIrrry DaLIan, nsB
Plmning Connl sslot ffuinictlattlre Edret
Pr.Slic Safetlt Cqrmi8sidr trhdrristratlve Padet,city CcrDcil edninistraLirn gadret lV8/901
City
G
use t-rerd for the rednay, especially in ligtrt of ttre taking r*ric*r wilts1ltpte1y tr4lperr eitlr the nrDI( Et$rey 212 mr'strrrtio. Eris hs pre-
Eent4d in tie feasibiLiQ shdy bearing as weLL as in t}e assesEmrttcaring.
I believe ttds is an aocurat€ portra$ of the ultinate bnal use for thear? once EunJc Bighray 212 is qrstructeal altlDugh it€os Budr as uris can
obviously be algrEil frm qc side or tne other. I bave endlosed a ccfry oftne prelinimry platting ibcreDts rhich ha\re been Buhitteat to the planning
Dq)alGnt for this lanal and also another sbeet utridt &rrs tne Dlr&Eigtmy 212 taldng. Eait tle City assessed an adilittoal eiStt rDits dr Uris
pr. oject, the net trEact. rcuId be a reilrrtisr of afprodnatefy $250 pr unit.
Since t}ere Es scnE qrstior aB to the crealibiliq, of the prqE6en pbtsuhrittal as to nrhettter it initeeal rculd be subdiviiH or if iCns pst aploy to obtain RAIf funds frcm tne lGtjct)olitan @rDcil, ttre rcnsenativeposition adopted Lry tJre City Corneil Eas to assess u'its shich re felt oer-tain rould be built.
A frustrating elelt of ny Job ie rnt being able to E tkfy Fll the oonerns
andl qrstiors rrhictl are poseit frcn cilizens aIri lsseiatidls audr as flre Eesse
Eatm Bcu€firrters Asseiation. I tqle at least ttris letter ls able to give you
infomation as to tie bsis for sote of t$e qrclusicrs rtrieh have reen reacteil
oncerning Bluff Creek Drive. I selcre srtinr,cd riia'log rith you ard Ute
Asseiation orcern5ng t}ese Etters, eqncially as t}e planning anal ultiqate
dlesigrn andt drstructidt of the [rilnL nigh\day 212 iryro,srants re to C&rg.
Sincerely,
CITT OF CEANEASSEN
5
Novcmber lS,
?o: !9ror, Clty Councll anct ptannlng Co@tlsslon
Cl ty of Chanhassen
590 Coulter Drlve p.0. Box l{?Chanhassen, lrinncsota S5Ol ?
Thc tscgsc Fann Eac Ornc Alroclrtlon
Dear ltayor Chn I r t , Gt al .
Durlng our Hesge Fara Boeotmcrs Assoclatlon neettng onNovenbrr tt, t9e9, the guoJict-oi--iirnl-nrennav-iri-i,ii"itJ"conn.ctlon to Bluff Crcck Drlvc as dlscusssa eitinifrjly.--As you are probabty alrcaai i"i"c, i,,rrtfrout the attractlonot a super frceuay connectlon fro; Cha;iiasgcn _ Shakece _chaskr to th! center of thc n.iiJ ri.il'Bruti crccl'-tiic,our racently lEE,rovcd .r.sld.nttat. gircct, tai-iiicaii--'cxpertcnccd r trcncndous tncrealr tn noi oirv-cai-inllt"trpllaqflc but Dost atlrnlngty, traeucnci-of usi oi FUCE ---'---
TRUCTS!
. - An attcmpt to st or^, trafftc doun to a rcason.blc lpredby.instattlng . stop gtsn rt thc inleiiectron "i airrr-iil;*Drtve ancl Hcsse Farm noia ts ,oll ili;;-;onsldcrrd. Apetlt:on has bcen prcaentcd to thc ct[y. frri iiJi clsnpoutd.crrtainly hetp.-rrlth apccd but piif,.pc not ulth thermount of trafflc. He certelnty hopi ipproval analnstal t.tton of thc atsns can-p;o;aea ;;l; a; il; dalrs*Ecreatrd by etnt.r tlmc condltlons. frrji tg Gxt;aoe,y"--'-iii.portant rrh?n consldrrlng thr iocatf6n-ot our ictooi Ouspickup polnt, nhlch Ig at-that fniiiccJtron. Carr endtrucks have bcen observcd crrtv!ng oi-it-rp."a, tn cxccas of40 nph, lcss than B feet array tr6o-wtr"r. or. ctcorntaryrchoot chitdran arc ctandtns. ftris Ji-irfOtiningl---.- Of llgnlflcant addltlonat concein iotercr, Ir th.Inpact of Bluff Creck. Drlvc p.orf iiinc"r'prtnAry coonn.ctlncrrrnk to new Trunk Hlshuay ztz.- ii'iiuir'cicit.pil;;";;;";Drs-the prtnary lccrlg.rotd to tt*t-212,-i"r concern Is trro-fclc. ftrst, thc roact-ts not caiaoii'oi catelyaccctilrcdatlns thc tratflc lt uouid ctr.;: Sicoiafv, chouldIt D! turncd tnto e aaJor fccdii io.Ol-inv gutrG of It bctngE rlsldential str.ct-t!.ovcr rnd tf,Jci h-oc ouncr! nlro havcpartrclp.t!d on ltc fundtng *roufJ Oc-r.irOrrr.a.rurthcr, on th! 3blc-t or aiscis;it, rt-ri unctcar tol:_,rr,v thg ll9. acrc ptot to-thc ilil;i'E;";; i,;;-;;; b.;;rgs?sc"d for thrcc lotr, rrilta qrr arci-rras bacn asreSc.d atappro:claatcly onc tot per Ctvc ccioc. -ac rccognlzc thetcu*cr:t Chanhasscn ordlnrnc. catte ior i-ro iciJ-ainid,honcv-c_r, that @aDs ctcven toii -- iii Errr..._ .
y.. rrlch to,axprcrs q,rr tppractatton tor yanrcongldcratlon of th. abovc aeiierc-ind-icquasi-tiat yourctaff .ddrcls thcg. lgcucc tn Gitfnil --
1989
6's', 9o$
cc:foonf.
liouard tloz I lka
Pras! dcnt Shcryl EoughVlc. t!.sicbnt $rc Pcry
Secrc tary Dan Sulth
Trcagura
\
CITY OF
EH[I{H[ESEN
G90 COULTER DBTVE . p.O. BOX 1a7. C|{AN}|ASSEN, UTNNESOTA 55317
(612) 9:t7-r900. FN( (612) 937-5739
ll5. 8u3an RechlI80 Ee3se larn Roaal
Chaala, llN 55318
Re: ?raffic Contlol Reguegt on Bluff Creek Drlve aod Bclec tarn Aoldlile No. Pn070A
Dcar l{s . Rech:
this letter ls!t thc iDteruec
1Dtl rclponle -!o yout petltlon tor e fou!-r!y .topon of Bluff Creel Driye and Ecrce lam Roadl. -
the-City'i EnginceriDE DapartDcDt hir perforoed ta caElacerlagstudly to .ee tf tht8 lnterrcctlon necti rarraDts fos glecrucnf ofa four-yay etop. Irafflc couDt3 ,ere. takeD andl a turicy pcr-
fornedl on cxlrtlng traffic rlgraage lD !,he area. Ihc CaivlrCounty Sheriffrr Dcpartlent ras allo ioDt cteal for rceultr ofaccent pltrols oonltoriag trlfftc ectlvitic! aloag Bluff CreckDrive. 3hc Sherlffr. Dcpaatocnt ladlicetecl they f6uoit ao viola-tloog for trucks crceedllag tbc retght rcrtrlctioDt (9 toar pcsexle), hoeeve!, thcy altit tndlcltc tbat a itqb aunbcr of tlclcttladl been laaued tor rpecdllng vtolattoaa. r=..Itir A.ta rrr revlercd.Dd disculsedl !t our-trafflc Bafcty Coot[tGc lcctlaE oa*edDeBalay, Novenbcr 8, 1989. olrr direueeiooe rcvcalid tlat elou!-r!y .top t. aot rarrlDtca .t tbt. tDtcr.ectloD tt tbl. tlDc.The rcaaon for llcalal rar tarcd oa ilor'traff lc volnuar oa EarGhtiE Roadl. ,8top atgDr rr. aot :tltaodcd*fcs uil rbould oover Dcueetl for rpccd contsol. ta ta .ffort to.elc drlvcr.rrsa otthe rpccdl llalt iloag Dlutf Creclr Drtvc, thc lrafflc:SlrfotyCoffi'tttcr rtll tutborlre tbc Cltyrr Publlc -Iortr'Ocpartrooi totcnporarlly rttrcb r tlourcrccat ordqgb Dlate or tlig to tbG.rltthg .pccdl llnlt .lgDr rloDglBtEtf CrGeL DslrG. - !b. Clry.rCouDty Ehcrlff,r Drplrt!.Dt g.y.- Ilr thl. talG! rt tt a..D.at tobryc baea . b.lp tD oth.r rs.u bt tbe Couaty rbGae .pe.d vloh-tloD rat r problc!. !!hc C!ry.8 Couoty 8bcrltf.. DcIrtitt Dt utltcoDtlDuc - to perlodltcally DoDttor trelf tc rctlvlttc.- rloDg DlstlCrcck.Drivcr-ctpeclally lo tlc qrcontag rGGh rhcD 8rualr itgbrry101 vlll bc dctouredl tor lalDt Daacc purlnrcr. tn ritdltloi, rrlrc accollaeDdlDg tbc lD.tall.tt,oD of -Scbool Bur gtop ltreeclarigar oo Bluff Crcak Drlve acar Ecr'c lrtil Bo.A.
Xovenber 9, 1989
It8. Susan Rechfovenber 9, l9B9
Page 2
t have attrched a copy of tne traffic count reaulte fro thisrpriag and this fall ior your coDveDience. tt la oui nope- ttrattbe lraffic safcty comltleere reco-rendtatlonr havi ct-c-cttveryreepoaded to-your trafflc concerDa. ghould you bave rny.qu€8tions, plcare feel frce to coDt.ct re.
Siuccrely r
CIST OF CIA}IEASSEN
Davlct C. EenpelEr. Engineering tcchnlctan
DCE:ttn
Att.chDents lraffic Counts.
Scott larr, A!!t. Public Eafcty Dlrectorcary narrenr Clty Engtncer./Dlrcctor of publ.tc fortsitclry Schlcnk, Strcct Supelt atcodent
44t._)04r
VIIIAGE OP CAANHASSEN
CARVER AI{D BENNEPIN COT'NTIES, UTNNESOTA
RESOLUTION
Resolution No. 116723
Irlotion by Councilraan t{olf Seconded by Councilman Xurvers
RESOLUTION ESTABI,ISIIING I.ITJNICIPAI, S?ATE ATD STREETS
WHEREAS, it appears to the Villagc Council of the Village
of ChaDhassen that the streets hereinafter describeil should be
designated ttlunicipal State Aid Streets under the provisions of
llianesota Laws of 1967, Chapter 152s
NOll THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the Village Council of
the Village of Chanhassen that the streets describeil as folIows, to
wit:
()
+
USAS
usAs
usAs
t{sAs
usAs
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
101
102
103
f0{
105
to
Lkc
to
ll
Milce)
Lake Lucv Road from S.H. No. 41
csAR No. 15 (3.09Uiles)
?3rd Street from CSAR No. 17 to
Lucy Road (0.19 Miles)
I{rtnan Boulevard.fron CseR.N. 17s.8. No. 101 (1.25 uiles)
Eluff Creek Drivc frotn csAR No.to U.S.E. No. 212 (1.25 Uiles)
S. n. No. 5 to CSAR ro. l{ (2.{
br, andl hereby alo eatrbliEbed, locatedr and deslgnated rs ltunieipal
6ttte Aidt Street. of taldl Villaga of Chatrhassen, subjcct to the
approva]. of the Conirsioaer of EiElrrayr of the Stat. of llinnGsota.
BE fT PURESUR RESOL\IED, that ths Vl,ll.ge Adninl3treto! is
hcroby .uthorl.zed and dirccted to forward two ccrtified copics of thi3
rorofution to the Commi8sloDer of Elghriays for his conridcratloD, and
Date November 5, 1972
+_-
)
Passedl and adopteil by the Council of the Village of Chanhlissen this
6th day of Novernber , 1972.
ATTEST:
TERX NI STRATOR
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy ofa ReEolutlon duly passed, adopted and approv€dl by the VillageCouncil on November 6, L972.
I
FInE ''Ft-?.rlt-rr
.- - --
-ADM ?RATOR
.r.t,
that upon his approval of the designation of said streets or portion
thereof, that aane be constructeil r improved and maintained as
Municipal State Aid Streets of the Vi],lage of Chanhassen, to be numbered
and known as the above designations.
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