02-7-90 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMI.{ISSION
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1990, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
*1. Mike Sorenson, cold storage warehouse facility located onHwy. 2L2 just northeast of Hwy. 169:
a. Conditional Use Permit Amendment forfacility.the expansion of the
Site Plan Review for the Expansion of the site.
ITEM TABLED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICECarI Carrico, property zoned RR, Rural Residential andlocated on take Lucy Lane approximately I urile west of
Yosemite:
Wetland Alteration Permit to fiIl and dredge a portion ofa Class B wetlandPreliminary plat to subdivision 12 acres into l6 singlefanily lots
Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Create an R-16, High DensityResidential District.
b
2
a
b
3
4 Zoning Ordinance Amendment to BIt, Highway and BusinessDistrict to a1low bank drive-thru windolrs as a permitted use.
OLD BUSINESS
NEW BUSINESS
Revised Site Plan Review for the Country Hospitality SuitesHotelr located on West 78th Street and Market Boulevard,Hutt Consultants, Inc.
6. Discussion Item - 1990 Work Program and Project Status Report
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
OPEN DI SCUSSION
ADJOURNMENT
* VISTT SITE
F,i4-
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE
ONGOING ITEMS
7. Discussion of List of On-going Items.
ADITIINSTRATIVE APPROVALS
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEN
Feb. z,- iggo-i
C.C. DAIE: Feb. 26, 1990
CASE NO: 86-1 CUP
90-1 Site pl.an
Prepared by: O1sen,/v
STAFF REPORT
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Conditional Use Permit and Site plan Reviewfor CoId Storage Units
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT !
I mile east of Hrry. 169North Side of Hwy. 2L2,intersection
Mike Sorenson
7506 Erie Avenue
Chanhassen, l{N 55317
PRBSENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITYS
ADJACENT ZONItrG
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SBWER:
PEYSICAL CEARAC. :
2000 LAND USE PLANs
BF, Business Fringe District
4.9 acres
A-2; single family
BFi SuperAmerica and motel
BFi single fanily
BF; used car lot
lrlbr t City tcminisfrol
odifiei_-
Dat: c:, ilid to
Date Suin,i. r i! C3rrri#l
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Not available to the property.
fhere is a steep northern slope at therear of the site. The site has beenseverly altered by grading and removalof vegetation.
Agr i cul tural
P.C. DATE:
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Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, 1990
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
The BF District permits cold storage warehousing as a conditional
use. There are no specific conditions for cold storage ware-
housing.
REFERRAL AGENCIES
City Engineer
Builtling Department
Fire uarshal
Soil Conservation Service
watershed District
PROPOSAL/SUMMARY
Attachment *1
Attachment *2
Attachnent *3
Attachment *4
Attachnent *5
on February 24, t986, the City Council approvetl a conditional use
permit anil a related subdivision request to construct a 240r x
Z0' metal cold storage building (Attachment f6). The structure
iras to be located on the 5 acre site adjacent to Ewy. 2L2. The
original conditional use Pertnit t as approved with the following
conditions:
1. The condilional use permit will not be recorded and a building
permit not issueil until the Torrens proceeding is completed'
2. Approval by unDOT and compliance with their condition regartling
aiiess anil drainage within state right-of-way, including re-
grading and Landscaping existing clriveway entrances.
3
5
The fence onaterial an
Any expansion
permit.
he eastern boundary shal1 be made of natural
e 100t opague.
of the site wiIl require another conditional use
The site rrill not contain any sanitary facilities and will not
be used for habitation.
The existing debris on the site will be removetl before occupancy
of the building.
Existing vegetation from the front lot line to the ?50 contour
sha1l not be ilisturbed other than the driveway.
A1I lighting shall be shielded from adjacent Property.
Should the existing trees and vegetation not screen the use,
the city can requiie the applicant to place adilitional land-
s caping,/fencing on the site if neeiled'
ntdb
4
5
7
A
9.
Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, L990
Page 3
10. any signage must receive aof the Sign Ordinance.
permit and neet the requirements
lL. Outside storage shall be provided only to persons who alerenting a storage bay. Each storage bay will be allowedJ"r200 sguare feet of outside storage, for a total of 9,600square feet. Outside storage shall be permitted only nithinthe parking area and sha11 exclude junk vehicles, construction debris, appliances ancl any iteis determined by staff tobe-unsightly and warrant indooi storage. The outside storagewill be reviewed annually at which time the City can reguir6additional screening or removal of certain items.
12. The site rdill be reviewed annually by City staff to deter-mine whether it is necessary to plve-the lrave1 parking Iot,if additiona.L screening is needed and if itre outiide "f.or.geis in compliance with condition *11.
The original proposar was for a row intensity use in the unsewereararea- Attachment *7 iLlustrates the existing conditions prior toalteration of the site. As can be seen, the site *"" .o*i1"t.lyvegetated rrith mature vegetation. It had been stated thal tneexisting trees irould provide screening for the site and thatthere would be no direct views from tf,e highway o, "ai.""ni-p.o-perties to the proposeil storage facility.
The site has been developed and the one storage building is fuIlyoccupied. As part of the construction of the originai ito..g"facility, the applicant completely removed al1 veietation-on ttresite and upon further reviei of tie site, staff his found thatmuch of the use is not in compliance with the approvea conlditional use permit.
Staff has been in contact with the owner in an effort to bringEhe site into compriance. These efforts have culminated in thecurrent . proposal to expanal the use while bringing it into confor_malg".rrith_the original. conditional use permi€. -rtre ioiiowlng isa list of items in which the site does not comply with the origi_na1 conditional use permit.
F I NDI NGS
CONDITION *3. THE FENC
MADE OF NATURAL MATERIA
N THE EASTERN BOUNDARY
ND BE 1OOT OPAQUE.
EOLA SHALL BE
The required fence has not be erected along the eastern propertyline. The applicant is craiming that the conditions of irre-sitehave not enabled him to. provide landscaping ana ttrai ine-nJignoo,to the east did not want a fence erectei aid preferrea to hive
Sorenson CUP anil Site PIan
February 7, 1990
Page 4
landscaping. The applicant has planted
along the eastern boundary rrhich do not
condition.
All mature vegetation on
north property line, havsite has been extensivel
established anil the bluf
severe unstable slope th
cated that there were co
grading the site, includ
springs , that resulted isite. As the site existbuililing anil parking on
the site, save for a few trees at the
e been removeil and virtually the entirey graded. No ground cover has been
f at the north end of the site has a
at is eroding. The applicant has indi-
nsiderable problems encountered when
ing poor soils and numerous underground
he tree loss and alteration to the
oday, there is no screening of the
property.
some
s erve
smal1 seedlingsthe purpose of the
CONDITION *5. TIIE SITE WILL NOT CONTAIN ANY SANITARY FACILITIES
AND WILL NOT BE USED FOR HABITATION.
The condition of approval prohibiteil the installation of sanitaryfacilities, however a bathroom and heating has been installedinto the bui1din9. The applicant requested permission to allow a
watchperson on the site. If an employee is on site, bathroomfacilities are required by Builtling Code. The bathroom ldas per-
mitted which in turn required heating.
CONDITION *7. EXISTING VEGETATION FROII{ THE FRONT LOT LINE TO THE
750' CONTOUR SHALL NOT BE DISTURBED OTHER THAN TIIE DRIVEWAY.
ntst
the
CONDITION *11. OUTSIDE STORAGE SHALL BE PROVIDED ONLY TO PERSONS
WHO ARE RENTING A STORAGE BAY. EACH STORAGE BAY WILL BE ALLOhIED
1,200 SOUARE FEET OF OUTSIDE STORAGE, FOR A TOTAL OF 9,600 SOUARE
FEET. OUTSIDE STORAGE SHATL BE PERMITTED ONLY WITHIN THE PARKING
AREA AND SIIALL EXCLUDE JUNK VEHICLES, CONSTRUCTION DEBRIS,
APPLIANCES AND ANY ITEMS DETERMINED BI STAFF TO BE UNSIGHTLY AND
WARRANT INDOOR STORAGE. THE OUTSIDE STORAGE WILL BE REVIEWED
ANNUALLY AT WHICH TIME THE CITY CAN REOUIRE ADDITIONAL SCREENING
OR REMOVAL OF CERTAIN ITEIT{S.
There is some outside storage on the site. Most of the outside
storage is cars that appea! to be left for the day by people
using the siLe. originallyr contractor storage l'ta s permitted at
the aite by the city but the instalration of offices in each bay
was not approved. Upon inspection of the warehouse, it was founil
that offices are located in the bays antl that employers are using
the site as a base for employees to get equipment,/trucks antl
.Leave for a job. This type of use is defined as a contractorrs
yard and is no longer a permitted use.
CONDITION *12. THE SITE WILL BE REVIEWED ANNUALLY BY CITY STAFF
TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS NECESSARY TO PAVE TIIE GRAVEL PARKING
Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, 1990
Page 5
LOT, IF ADDITIONAL SCREENING IS
IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONDITION
NEEDED AND IF TIiE OUTSIDE STORAGE
#11.
The site has extensive erosion warranting paving of the vehicular
areas and it is also apparent that screening is necessary on the
site.
SITE PLAN
The applicant is proposing an adilition of 3 cold storage ware-
house buildings in phases. One building is proposeil in front of
the existing builtling (Phase I) and the remaining two are to be
located directly rdest and southwest of the existing building
(Phase II). The applicant is proposing to pave the parking area
to the rear and front of the existing bulding and the driveway
leading from Hwy. 2\2 Lo the site. The applicant is also pro-
posing bituminous curve along the south edge of the driveway todirect drainage down fron the site to a culvert on Hwy. 212. Thetype of buildings proposed are required to be sprinklered (see
Fire Marshal memo ) .
GRADING AND DRAINAGE
For any commercial site, the ordinance requires the vehicular
areas to be paved and to have concrete curb. Because the subjectsite has such extreme conditions in the form of a high amount ofrunoff and erosion and lack of any veqetative cover, staff is
recommending that the site be brought up to city standards withall parking areas being paved and provision of concrete curb. Abituminous curb, as proposed, will not be stable enough to con-tain the amount of runoff experienced on the site and will be
damaged with any snow removal . A condition of the original con-ilitional use permit allowed staff the flexibility to review thesite to see if paving and concrete curb in necessary. Afterreviewing the site it is obvious Lhat such improvements arenecessary and that bituminous curb will not be aclequate.
The applicant is also proposing extensive grading to stabilizethe site and ponding to contain the high amount of runoff. Theproposed grading plan with the 3 ponds comforms to the watersheddistlictrs recommendations but staff prefers limiting the numberof ponding areas and using storm sewer instead (see Engineeringmemo). Storm sewer would better controL runoff fron the
underground springs and reduce the amount of overland runoff anderosion. Also, the sl-opes must be reduced to a maximum of 2l:1in steepness.
LANDSCAP ING
The applicant is proposing Black Hill Spruce along the easterly
boundary and along the berms. Willolrrs are proposetl near the ponil
in the southwest corner, and deciduous shrubs are located along
on February L2, L990, the City Council will be reviewing the
second and final reading for a zoning ordinance amendment prohi-
biting the use of metal buildings in commercial districts. The
existing building on the subject site is a metal. building and the
applicant is proposing the three aclditional buildings to also be
netal . The ordinance will be in effect prior to the applicant
developing the proposed buildings. fherefore, if it is developed
as proposed, the metal builttings will nots be in compliance with
the new ordinance. For the applicant to be allowetl to have metal
buildings, he would have to receive a variance to the ordinance-
If the proposed site was a conpletely new development. staff
would recommend denial of allowing metal buildings to be usetl.
since the site has already been partially developed with a metal
building, staff sees that there are grounds for a variance since
it would allow for the completion of an existing project.
Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, L990
Page 6
the driveway. The remainder of the site will be seeded. The
proposecl landscaping will provide for screening that has been
lost with the removal of the vegetation on the sile, although
the existing and proposed buildings wiIl sti11 be more visible
then if the original vegetation had remained as required. Staffis recommencling a letter of credit to cover the cost of
lanilscaping and berning as per the new ordinance and because of
previous lack of compl iance.
II{ETAL BUILDINGS
BF DISTRICT - A2 DISTRICT
TRAFFI C
The Planning Commission and Council have discussed the possibi-
lity of rezoning the BF District to A2 since it is in an
unsewered area, is located along a Hwy. 2L2 with dangerous access
and is adjacent to the Minnesota River. The BF District was
created to accommoilate existing uses along Hiry- 212 so that they
would not be non-conforming uses. staff and the City Attorney
have reviewed this issue and have been somewhat hesitant in
pursuing it due to the fact that most of the sites within the BF
District would not accommodate agricultural use or single family
development. The applicant has been made arrare that the PLanning
commission will again be reviewing rezoning the property from BF
to A2 and that this would not allow him to expand his site.
Therefore, staff feLt that it was appropriate that the Planning
Commission and Council take into consideration the proposed
rezoning when reviewing this proposal.
Staff i
L69 /2L2rai sed
mining
s concerned with the safety of sties accessing onto Hwy.
due to high traffic volumes. Traffic questions were also
in this area during discussions of the l'toon Va11ey gravel
operation. Staff does not believe that the proposal will
Sorenson
February
Page 7
CUP and Site Plan
7, 1990
contribute substantially to traffic 1evels on the highway since
most of the traffic is through traffic. Hoireve!, an ameniled
access permit from MnDOT is required anal staff has helildiscussions with them regarding safety related improvements.
MnDOT wiIl be submitting written comments and the applicant sha11be required to meet all IrlnDOT conditions.
COMPLI ANCE
As has been stated, the subject site is not in compliance withconditions of the original conditional use permit and staff with-held taking further action pending resoLution of the current pro-posal. The proposeil expansion of the site includes improvementsto the property which would meet the conditions and concerns ofthe original conditional use permit. The vehicular areas wi1l. bepaved and staff is recommending concrete curb to reduce the ero-sion on the site. Berming will be provided to screen the faci-Iity, with landscaping being provided to further providescreening from surrounding properties. ponding is being providedto reduce the amount of erosion and the applicant is proposing tostablize the slope and to provide vegetative cover on the undeve-loped portion of the site.
recommend approvalpursue bringingconditional use
The issues of the proposal are that the applicant is requestingpermission to expand a site that is not in compliance with the-original conditional use permit, is proposing metal buildingswhich at the time they are constructed will not be in cornfoimancewith the ordinance and is proposing intensifying a project in anarea-that. the city may consider rezoning to A-2. The existingbuilding is not sprinklered since Appendix E was not in effectwhen constructed but the new buildings will be required to besprinklereil. The applicant has stated to the fire tnspector thathe will not sprinkler the buildings. If the applicant does notagree to this, the project will not be permitted.
Should the Planning Commission and Council recommend approval ofthe proposal , staff is reconmending that the iurprovemenLs to thesite (stablization of the slopes, creation of ponding areas andberms and provision of landscaping) be completed prior toissuance of additional building permits. a tettei of credit willbe required to cover the cost of improvements.
Should the Planning Commission and Council notof the conditional use permit, staff will stillthe property into compliance with the originalpermit.
Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, 1990
Page 8
RECOMMENDATION
Should the Planning
mends the following
Commission recommend
conditions:
approval, staff recom-
1
2
AI1 vehicular areas wilI be paved
concrete curb. This includes all
developed .
and l ined
phases as
with 8-612
they are
3
4
The proposed berms, ponding areas and landscaping and otherreguireil improvements to the site shaII be completed prior toissuance of a building permit. The applicant shal1 provicle aletter of credit to cover the eost of improvements to siteprior to issuance of a buiLding permit.
All buildings sha11 be sprinklereal to NFPA requirements.
Approval by It{nDOT and compliance with all of their
conditions.
The new buildings sha1l not contain any sanitary facilities,
heating units, offices and will not be useal for contractorrs
yards and of f ice,,/warehouse purposes.
A11 lighting sha11 be shieltled from adjacent properties.
Should the existing trees and vegetation not screen the use,
the City can require the applicant to place additional land-
scaping/fencing on the site if needed.
Outside storage shalI be provided only to persons who are
renting a storage bay. Each storage bay will be alloweil
11200 square feet of outside storage, for a total of 91600
square feet. Outside storage shalI be permitted only within
the parking area and sha1l exclude junk vehicles, construc
tion debris, appliances and any items determined by staff to
be unsightly and warrant indoor storage. The outside storage
will be reviewed annually at which time the City can require
adilitional screening or removal of certain items.
Drainage and stolage calculations shall be submitted to the
City Engineer for review.
5
6
7
I
9
10. The grading plan shall be reviseal to
sewer system, eliminate the neeal for
two of the three retention ponds and2*:1 steepness of slopes.
incorporate a storm
drainage swales andprovide a maximum of
11.
t2.
Erosion control over the site shal1 be Type III.
The revised grading plan shaIl be re-submitted to the
watershed District for approval.
Sorenson CUP and Site Plan
February 7, L990
Page 9
ATTACHMENTS
1. Ilremo from sr. Engineering Technician tlated January 30, 1990.
2. llemo from Building Department dated December 21, 1989.
3. !,temo from Fire Marshal dated January 29, L990.
4. Letter from Soil Conservation Service dated January 9, I990.
5. Letter from lilatersheil District dated January 10, 1990.6. Original site p1an.
7 . Existing conditions.8. Letter from Minnesota Electric Coop alated December 1I, 1989.9. Letter from Barbara Dacy dateal October 22, L987.I0. Letter from applicant dated January 23, 1990.
11. Letter from Paul Krauss dated September 5, 1989.
12. Letter from Krueger Associates dated January 22, L990.
13. Site plan dateil January 24, 1990.
I
CITY OF
EII[NH[SSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
I"1EI"lORAN DUI-I
TO:
FROtil:
DATE :
SUBJ:
Jo ilnn 01sen, Senior Planner
Dave Hempe1 , Senior Engineering Technician M
January 30, 1990
Site PIan Review for Sorenson 1st Addition
File No. 90-4 Land Use Review
Upon review of the grading and utility plan prePared by Ron
xiueger & Associatel aatea December 4, 1989, revised January 22,
1990 for sorenson lst Addition, I submit the following comments
and recommendations .
GRAD ING AND DRAINAGE
The entire site is proposed to be gradecl' A series of retention
p""a" "t" proposed lo L. "on"tructed to provide siltation. control
ina a contiotied runoff rate. The plans do not include storm
runoff and pond "tot.g" citcutatloni' These calculations should-u."pi."ia"a- io verirv-the Eite is maintaining-the predeveloped
runoff rate and storlge capabilities for a l00-year storm event'
Due to Soil ancl terrain character i stics, the proposed grading
;i;";";-;;"-p.t."ii.i--toi erosion probrems' rt is recommended
that a storm sewer "yit.r" be incorp6ratetl to elininate the neea
ioi-at"it"ge swales 'and reduce the number of sediment ponds
(which are a maintenance problen) donn to one '
The grading plan also reflects some very steep slopes proposed
;1;.;-il; ioiitrerry p"iiio" of the site' slopes.range from.3:1
[o-n6"tfv vertical-. 'with tt.". types of slopes it-is very dif-
il";ir-a; ,._.iiilri"h vegerarion-.- -rr is reconnended that these
"i"pE" ue reaucea to i maiimum of 2i:1 in steePness by.adding
i"l'"i"f.g wa1ls anil/or adjusting the parking 1ot location'
frt
UTILI fIES
this site is located outside of the llusA boundaryi therefore,
;;;i.i;;i utilitites are not currently available to the site'
Jo Ann Olsen
January 30, 1990
Page 2
The applicant has received ulatershed District approval for thisplan subject to submission of adequate details of skimmingdevices to be used in the retention ponds. If the plans ireamended as proposed, the applicant should resubmit to theliatershed District for approval again.
EROSION CONTROL
The plans propose IYpe I
due to the terrain, it icontrol fence be used.
(siIt fence) erosion control . Again,s recommended that 1ype III erosion
As mentioned in the initial report for this site, access is amajor concern due to the vehicular speed, roadway geometrics andtraffic volumes of Trunk Highway L6i/212. unpOt is currentlyreviewing the site plan and wi1-1 respond in ,tiiing-*itr,-tii.i,recommendations.
The plans propose a bituminouwith bituminous curb installeis recommended that the propoconcrete 8-612 curb and guttesite.
S TREETS
RECOIIOIENDED CONDIT ION S
s surface parking lot and drivewayd on the east half of the site. itsed bituminous curb be replaced withr and be installed throughout the
I Drainage.and storage calculations shal1 be submitted to theCity Engineer for review.
The grading plan shal1 be revised to incorporate a stormsewer system and eliminate the need for driinage "rii""1natwo of the three retention ponds.
Erosion control over the site shall be 1ype III.
The revised.grading plan sha1I be re_submitted to theWatershed District for approval .
The applicant shalr conply with arr unDor reco,nendations.
2
4
3
5
5. The proposed bituminous curb8-612 curb anal gutter and be
placed with concretehroughout the site.
retbeshal1
in sta
Gary warlen, City Engineer
11 ed
l
CITY OF
EII[NIIIESEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' PO. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-s739
MEMORANDUM
TO:Jo Ann OIsen, Senior Planner
Kirchnan,
21, 7989
Case 86-1
Building I nspector
CUP and 89-10 Site Plan Reviev (Sorenson)
B-2 occupancy, and as such are required to be
Every building vhere pelsons are employed sha1l be
sanitation facilities as specified in Minnesota
4715.
FROM !
DATE:
SUBJ:
Steve A.
Decenber
P lann i ng
Bui ld ings are
sprinklered.provided vith
RuIes Chapter
w2-
Lo.r..
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
1. Buildlngs aze classified as a B-2, yhlch under City Ordinancelequires that they be sprlnkleredl to NFPA requlrenents. (NFPA
Section 24 or 1231)'
CITY OF
EH[I{H[SEEI{
hj
I{ETORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann O1sen, Senior Planner
FROM: Uark Littfln, Fire Marshal
DATE: January 29, 1990
SUBJ: Solenson 1st Additlon
CARVER SOIL AND WATER CONSERVATION DISTRICT
MINNESOTA
SOIL AND WATER CONSERVATION PISTRICTS
January 9' 1990
Jo Ann 01sen, Senlor Planner
Clty of Chanhassen
690 Coutter Drive, P. 0. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Ms. Olsen:
This area was sol1 Eapped as Hayden and Terrll soll types. The Ilayden soil
name has been changed fron the orlglnal sol1 survey to Les ter-Ki.lkenny loams
1n the new survey. Please review the attached materials descrlbltlg the soi1s.
The soll infornatlon 1n this rePort is intended for generall plannlng. Any
speclfic questLoBs at speclfic locatlons should be addressed by a quallfted
etrgineer. The soil slopes are ateeP ln both the front and rear of the Plat.
The plan ca1ls for a Erosion control Plan Type "A" Typlcal to be used ln the
ne!, constructed watersays or swales on the l,est slde of the Project. A type
"A" Typlcal rras not sent \rLth the PIan' but assuolng lt ls elther staked stral'
bales or sllt fences placed across these areas. I have lncluded a fact sheet
which can be used as a gulde for both the iDstallation and Eaintenance of these
types of sedlEent traPs. Accordlng to the Suldellnes of the fact sheet, use of
s1lt fences in areas of concentrated flore ls Dot recomended, only la areas of
sheet flow condltLons. I{aterways should be designeil to conduct peak flows at
rates no greater than 4.5 f.p.s. for the deslgn storn. ExPerlence has shorrn
hlgher flow rates nake the saterways too dlfflcult to establlsh ln 8rass.
On page 85B of the Ulnnesota Coastructloo Slte Erosion and Sedlnent Control
Planning llandbook, a temporary sedlnent traP could be used because, by lts
deflnition, lt ls planned to be used 1n channel flow conditlons '
To follow fact aheet guldellnes' 611t fences on the slte should be placed on
the contour of the slopes. They oay have to be Placed 1n ahorter overlapplng
sectlons ln orde! to stay oD the contour and to be as effectlve at traPPlng
sedLnent ss Posslble,
The topsoll should be 6oi1 tested by the U of M to determine the fertlllzer
requlred to establish and ualntaln a good grass cover. The samples can be
taken fron the topsotl stockPiles as thls rePreseats the tyPe of oaterLal to
be used 1n the flnal topsoll agaln.
K.;i-4. I -_J
JAN 10 1e90AN EOUAL OPPOHTUNITY EMPLOYER
crTf. ot cHAr-lHAssEl{
*4
219 Elsl Frontae. Flosd
WEt., Uarr|.lol! 5S3O7
T6lsptrooe (6r 21 442-5101
RE: Sorenson lst Addltloa and So11 Erosion
Duriag TransforEatiotr
The plan should have a constructloD tlmetable drafted and nalntaLned by thefield englneer. Areas that do not have grass vegetatlon after construction forthirty days or Eore should have a tenporary seeding to help reduce soil eroslon.
If the constructlon sLte has a sizable dralnage area above lt, a clean $aterdiversion nay be needed to prevent thls addltionar water frou flowing over thesite.
Side hill seepage of groundvater could be a problen at times in thLs type ofarea. Adequate drainage (as determined by a quallfied eaglneer) should be pro-vided 1f on site soll testltrg lndlcates thls problen may be present or lf be-
cornes evldent during gradlng and constructlon.
Sinc Iy,
D. Neumann
Conservation Techniclan
PDN/nh
Enc .
0
1980 1.2s
TEMPORARY SEDIMENT TRAP
r|fr-F
Below drainage areas of 5 acres or less.
Ilhere the sediment trap will be used no longer than 18 months. (The
maximum useful life is 18 months).
The sediment trap may be constructed either independently or in con-
junction rith a TEiIP0RARY DIVERSIoN DIKE (Std. & Spec. 1.15).
A smal l temporary ponding area, formed by constructing an earthen embank-
ment with a gravel outlet, across a drainage swale.
Purpose
To detain sediment-laden runoff frcrn small disturbed are.rs long enough
to al low the majority of the sedinent to settle out.
Condjtions Hhere Practice Appl ies
I
2.
3
-86B-
sTD a SPEC 1.2s
Defini tion
Y
1.!
1980 1.25
P I anal nq Consl dera tiorrs
lbl,s ptactl,ce teplaces aad erlrads rtrat ,las pretrlouslg }€.en tf'r(,,'.n as. ?an ,otatg Clavel Out.l.et Strusture. It tlltfezs f.ro! tlre fe,atar'Eg Gtavel
Ontlet Ln tlrat tDe sedlrE t storage volure DE,hinit t t€ cnDan oacnt ar2d
outlet ,ust De ca.lcufated aad desigaed. BrcavacLoD Day De sce,ulred to
attaia tre trecessirrg sXorage 9oIuoe.
S.djJDeDt tlaps sDou.ld De used o,ilg foE sEa-l.l dlel,rgc arcas. tf tle
contzibutiaE ibal,nge area Js Feaacr ti.n 5 ecles, lefer to S@IABNT
aI.1UYS f.Std. t SEE8. 7.26).
.SiedrDent eust De prlodicaTTg t@veit fta che ttap. Plars shou-ld dctal.I
&qr tlris sedrEnt ls to Dc disposed of, such as Dg use la fllT atcas
oa sice ot t.,,E,va7 to a.D epEfot ed. off-sl,te irutup.
Sedj,?ent llfaps, ,7orq ritll otbcr FrlECer coDttols, sla.ll a. lastallcdbtoEe arrg .larrd dlsturDarEe tales $lace ln tlre dralaage area.
Design Cri teri a
Trap Capaci ty
The sedinrcnt trap must have an lnitial storage vol ume of 67 cubic yards
per acre of drainage area, iEasured frm the lor polnt of the groundto the crest of the gravel outlet. Sedlment should be removed frm the
basln rhen the volrme ls reduced by one-half.
For a natural basln, the volune may be approxlnrated as follors:
U.0.4xAxD
where,
V = the storage volrme ln ft.3
A - the surface area of the flooded-area'at
the crest of the outlet, ln ft.'
D . the oaxirMr depth, rneasured frm the lotpoint ln the trap to the crest of the outlet,ln ft.
Excavation
If excavatlon ls necessary to attaln the requlred storage volurE, slde
slopes should be no steeper than 2:1.
(
€
\
1980 L.?5
Sorrce: Va SIJCC Plate 1.25a
3. The earthen snbankment shall be seeded rith tcnporary or permanent
vegetation (see Std. & Spec. 1.55 and 1.66) rithin 15 days of con-
structi on.
4. Construction operations shall be carried out ln such a nanner that
erosion and rater pol'lution are minimlzed.
5. The structur€ shall be removed rnd the area stabillzed rhen the up-
slope drainage area has been stabilized.
6. All cut and fill slopes shrll be 2:1 or flatter.
llaintenance
1 Sediment shall be removed and the trap restored to its original dimen-
slons rhen the sediment has accmulated to LlZ the design volme
of the trap. Sediment rsrcved fror the basin shall be deposi.ted
ln a suitable area and in such a nanner that it ri'll not erode.
2. The structure should be checked regularly to ins
turally sound and has not been dmaged by erosio
equiprnent. Ihe height of the outlet should be c
that its center is at least one foot belou the t
ure that it is struc-
n or construction
hecked to insure
op of the embankment.
TEI{PORARY SEDIMENT TRAP
Fc4.0|r{
5.0'llaximum
Cross-Sectl on
Length (in feet) =
6 x Drainage Area (in ac.
VDH&T ilo. I
Coarse Aggregate
Sedimnt Trap 0utlet
67 cu. yd./acre
-898-
C
C
1980
Out I et
1.25
Ihe outlet for the sedlmnt trap sha'll consist of a crushed stone secilonof the embankment located at the low point in the basin. The minlmumlength of the outlet shall be 6 feet tinns the acreage of the drainagearea. The crest of the outlet must be at Ieast 1.0 foot below the topof the abankment, to lnsure that the flow rill travel over the stone
and not the Enbankment. The outlet sha'l I be constructed of UDI&T llo.tsize crushed stone.
Embankment Cross-Section
The maxlnum height of the sedlnrent trap anbanknnnt shall be 5 feet as
neasured fror the low point. llinlnr,m top rldths (tl) and outlet helEhts(H^) for varlous gnbar*nBnt helghts (H) ire shom-ln Table 1.25a. StOe
slUges of the grbankment shall be 2:1 or flatter.
Table 1.25a
HilInil Top l{IDI}t (I) REQUIRED FoR SmIilEr{T IRAP EAAIlGtEilTS
ACCmDIilG T0 HEIGHT 0F El,lMffXilEt{T (feet)
Ho
T5
1.0
1.5
2.0
2.5
3.0
3.5
4.0
H
T5
lt
Ho tl]_I
2.0
2.5
3.0
3.5
4.0
4.5
5.0
TIT
2.0
2.5
2.5
3.0
3.0
4.0
tl.5
SeAJqelt trrps-must be raoved after the contrlbuting drainrge area lsstabilized. Plans should shor how the slte of the sadlrEnt irap ls tobe graded and stabilized after renoval .
Source: Va S}ICC
Rercval
1
Construction Speclficatlons
The area under the einbankment shall be cleared, grubbed,of any vegetatlon and root nat. fo facllltate cieanout,
area should be cleared.
Flll nateri al for the embartnent shall be free of roots or other
xoody vegetatlon, organlc materl aI , large stones, and other obJectlon-
able material . The erbankment should be cqnpacted ln 8-lnch I ayers
by traversing xith construction eguipment.
and stripped
the pool
2.
-888-
e
t{
C
t
IqftF*II]F1
5I]IL IIIflF
5YT,1BI1L
HE=
il
i'ifi
t!t\
t'i
toxo2 I 2.1
SOTL SY,\'AOL LEGEA'D
Sol2
__::::"___ ____----:'-:-:v-Yyr::--------- :Y:--
no iCz.bel Not a iuaogr -zel tgmbo2 5.5
KE2 LeA*az-Ktlhcing LooJtb, lE tb 25 l, ezodnL 3.6
- llt{ tlt,.ne).&a. Loo,m 0 . 1
TC Tctudl Loo,m, 6 to 12 I 2.9
========
BUILDING SITE DEVELOPMENT
The data. *Lo@ *hz degize and. bb1d. oi aoll 2)tnlta*).on o *Jtot
al6ecf. ah 2out e,xqva.tiona, dtnl2)*t ga ulfh and. u.izlptrt baaqlet*A,
anttzl eomne4d,ol bdldbzga, ZoqL toa.d.a and. $)LeztA, and 2aunA
otld. lrnd..au.ping. The 2)rni-ta-t)ona a.te cotu )de^ed Ar)gh* 4 tdl
p4ope).t)e. dt1.d- 4.*e bcatuuct arz gene)a229 $avoaz.btz. ,6oa *le
bLilsien uAe onn 2)nl;a;tiona oAz mi)1,oa ancl eaal2C ov?2tcomc;
modc^o.tz 4 to.lz pttopc.ttt)*za 04 b)Sz beafuuza o/tz no* ,[avoaa.bla
4o+ atle bld).c,o.ran uae ond. apel.,La2 pzahnl"rlg, de,tign, 04
fltd)Lte.nnn@ i-a nenLeL 2o ovczcot p oa min)ni.ze the l))t ltat)or1A;
dnl. 4eve4e 16 adl plopc.4t)z. o+ ti.tz lutu*a utz oo unf,avoaa.blz
oa. Ao d,46.iru.2,t, to ove,tc.ome. tJla*. apec,iaL de,tign, tneni,Us)1*
i,r:c,,zea.ae.a in cona*.ntlcf)on eoa*A, dttd, po+tiblg blcieaacd
ttpfuL+znnnec. ar)e 4eqd)Led. Spe.dal f,ea.oLbiu*g ru)d)aA mlg be.
azqu)zeL uflerze. Xhe, .to12 Zini.ta.tiona d.iz ae.ve4e..
bLd).u,t)ng tlte dega.ez oi at#a)*f)otu and up *,o t)vlcz.
'*totr.ofi*;a, bld).u)Lulg t'th,Lc,lt oi tv. eauil.cnorla thnt
applc. Ab&qtcrz ol on estt-tg b1n).ca,tzA aha.t, *l1z lea,ttne
La not a coneltn 04 tlla* xhz da.*a. ue-ri not ea**nf*n.
SUgE
Itlodeutz
Seve-ze.
A
B
c
D
E
F
G
H
I
J
Cenenbt Pan
Ctttbanha bve-
Ocne- Layen
DeptJT to RoeJ€.
Daoughtg
Excran Hurul
EleAA LLtp
Exeta Salt,
Ex,ea Sod)um
Ex.ceu SuL$tt
K: FLoo&tttg
L: F't 04* A&)on
Itl: Longe- St,oneA
N: Lotet St,acltg*h
O: Peata$aoat
P : ?l*i.Lttg
Q: ?ond),rtg
R: Shtd.nh:9,n12
S: Snppa,ge
T: Slope
SHALLU) EXCAUATTOAIS
U: Srm,l2 S8onea
V: S.iJb.i.deA
U: Too Ac).d
X: Too Clagec
Y: Too Sand.g
Z: Undzbt*. Fil2
a: Ueinzla
b: Th)n La,gezt
c: ArtzA, RerJa,bn
sorL
NAPIE
De,gaee. or1d. tg pe
of, aetttd*lion
AE
BH
Or)
GL
KA
KB2
KC2
KD
KF
KM
LS
itil
TC
u
3Br
3FQ
3a
3Q
3a
I
2T
3r
37
3T
3tu
3o
3B
2T
KE2
1:
2:
3..
c
D
E
F
1: SLIGHT
2: i{ODERATE
3; SEUERE (SLOPE l2-rit)
4: SEUERE {{rrEIrrrESS, SEASO^IAL
SATURATTOAJ.l
5: OEA,ERALLY NOT SUTTABLE
R.. FAST
"ERC/POOR
FILTER
S: SLOI, PERC
U: UflSTABLE
(rr: (rrEfilESS
6-121 SLOPE
,2-1ET SLOPE
>rEt stoPE
FLOODINA
H: HEAUING
L: LOU SIREITGIH
O; ORGAITfC SOfL
P: ?ONDING
A STTE EVALUATTON MAY BE REQUTRED
adELLrilcs ArrTr{ BASEI{EilrS
Deg+ea. anL tgpe
ol aeattd*)A,on
AE
BH
al
AL
KB
KB2
KC2
KD
KE2
KF
KM
LS
NN
TC
u
5E
5P
5W
5P
4U
2U
2CU
30
5E
5E
5FW
4U
5F
2C
DET Ar LED SUrrABrLrry F OR A)E LLr NGS A,l I BASEiT{ElrrS,
CARVER COUNTY TAJTERPRETATTOA'S
Fg+'e'arch aoi2 *gpe tho t4.be2 conalatA o$ a runbezz (t-st l;til,u.;Uig the
dzgtrcz oi 4eAtui.at)on ond up to 3 durnilz-z 6, ittd).u*)ng uthiEll oi tl1p,
,.eAt)LiE*)ona eppLg. Abacne,, ol an ent tC b|.ililfzA t)ut tllz $en*arle
La not a con&)Ln 04 Xha,t th.e. da,ta,t ue.4e, noX uLbm.Un.
sorL
A'A/"8
Se)gh.t.
tlodelLa,tz
Se-vc,an
1
2
3
K
L
M
ll,
o
P
a
R
s
T
A
a
c
D
E
F
G
H
T
J
Cqne-ntnd. Pon
Cu,tbanJet Cave
Den4e Ldge2L
Depxh tn Roc2
DlloughLg
Excn aa Huru.a
Exce-4a Lbne
Exea6 So2,t
Exec.aa Sod-A)nt
Exeta Su26uz
: Ft-ood)ng
: Ftoa* A&iort
: Lo ge. S*onza
: Lot t Sttcng*h
: ?eatz,6aoa*
: Pl*t)ng
: Pond)ng
: Slt*Uth:Suetl
: Sl)ppo.ge
: SLope
U: Sn all Stonza
V: Su.baLd.et
W: Too Ae)d.
X: Too Clageg
Y: Too Sand.g
Z: Unata.ble F il2
a.: Ue*@aa
b: TtuUz Ldge-t
c: A,,Lez Reela,in
sorL
NANE
AE
BH
cu
GL
KB
KB2
KC2
KD
KE2
KF
KM
LS
MN
TC
w
3T
3Qx
3a
3Ql.l
2aRT
2RT
3T
3T
3T
3T
3Ka
2aR
3K
3T
Foz eanh aoi2 tgpe the t .be2 con4lAaa o,$ a nunbez (1-31
b1d).u.t))Lg *hn d.egaec. oi +oata,totion and up to *Jl,tlez
chotA.622rA, b1d,Lca.t)ng uut tt oi th,e, ,tlcAuUation4 *tta.t
applc. Abaence. o,f, on enDr.g Ltzd)s.tna thiL the 6eahu,e
).a noX a eonoe,zn 04 t*1n* the clr.to. @e c no* e.4ilJtz*.en.
SMALL COI,II,IERCTAL BUTLDTA'GS
De.?4ez ond *gpe
oi 4e,&rdEl).on
-e-+ +Jt - trw.4,+<r+1, vt tL ,u't.ru,.t, I t .) t
b1d).u,t)ng *]tz. de-g+e*. oS aesttd*t)on and up tn t)vtez,.
clu)rtrfz,4.o, bln)-u,t)rtg dia.h oS +lae. neat)d-o,Lon. *lui
app,LC. Abl,e)Lce. oi an esttttg b1d).ufz-a tl@* t)1e lea.aue
4a no* e concptuT, orl t)lo.X +11p, d.dta- a)c)a noX eatAm.tzn.
SU-gE
l,lodea,a.*z
Sevezte
A: Ceip,rl,tad Pon
B: Cu.tbarlhA Cave,
C: De,noe Laget
D: De.p*Jt to Roch.
E: D4ough.xg
F: Exec,a6 Htfitta
G: Exeeta Line
H: Ex.eta Salt,
I: Exr,ett Sod.lttttt
f,: Exczta Su26url
: FLood)ttg
: Ftlo4t Adion
: Laagc. StoncA
: Lat Stttengt)'t
: Pe,.rtJtr,;64oaa
: Pi.+S)ng
: Pond.ist g
: Sh,,iltth,-9te,l2
: Sl).ppage
: S&ope
LOCAL ROADS AA'D STREETS
U: 9mll Storloo
U: Subtidn,a
ll: Too Ac,ld.
X: Too Cbgeg
V: Too Sand.g
Z: Un eabla. F ll2
a: Uelnc,aa
b: Th),tt Legea.
c: fuLea Reela,bt
I
2
3
K
L
M
l,
o
P
a
R
s
T
sorL
NANE
De-g+e.c. and. tg pe
o$ ana+a)t tiotu
AE
BH
d/)
AL
KB
KB2
KC2
KD
KE2
RF
K',1
LS
ltN
TC
w
3T
3lJQr
3Lll
3QrtJL
31,
3lv
3A'
3NT
3rv7
3tr
3d-K,L
3ArL
3K
3i,
(
For cath AoU- tgpe ahc.2a.be2 conalAt^ of, a ruutbezz (l-91 Lttil.u.t;ne d'@
d.e.gtez o.$ te-*td )on and. up to 3 charngzTA, ittrE.u.t)ng uth)r,h o{ thn
- rtpAt).iElion a epplg. Abae.nce o,$ an en*tr.g l:td).u,tct tlu.* thz f,ea.atne. La
noa a conce)rL 04 tJln t *l1c d,ott ute)Le noa t)Ja.Un.
-,
2
3
-1
5
c
-DE
F
: SLTGHT
: NODERATE
: SEUERE (SIOPE ),5I,
: SEUERE (tOt, SIREilGrH,
: SEUERE (10u, SIREITGTH,
sLoPE >r5t,
: 6-12t STOPES
: l2-lEt SLOPES
: >l6l STOPES
: FLOODING
SEUERE (Td' STREflCIH, FROST ACTION)
SEUERE (I'EII{ESS, POA'DTA'G, FROST
ACTIoNI
SEUERE (FLOODINAI
SEUERE (ORGAflTC SOTLS,
R: FAST
"ERC/POOR
FfLfER
S: SLO0, PERC
U: UITS7ABLE
&,,: ITTEIAIESS
Degzee ond. xg pe
0.6 LegA).d)ona
6
7
E
9
TgpeA 3-6 to)Za aae c,onai.de4"l xo lTave 6ev.>7.e ,zAt2danorla but *heAe, a,,ae
*gpi.u.LLg a.d,.d,4cA.el. drr,il.ng clungh ond conatitlt*)on. TyPeS 7-9 SOfLS HAUE
-UERY SEUERE RESTRTCTTOA'S AA'D SHOULO BE AVOIDED TF POSSTALE.
CARUER COUNTY ROAD RATTA'G
H; HEAUfilG
L: LOU SrRElrGrH
O: ORGAITfCIPEAT
P: PONDING
3E
7 LPH
6HL
TPLH
1L
1L
1L
5LD
5LE
5LE
A)FH
6LH
EF
1L
sorL
NA/VE
AE
BH
a)
AL
KB
KA2
KC2
KD
KE2
KF
Kl't
LS
lt,
TC
u
b|d.Lu.t)ng tJte. d.egac,e ol anaud**)on and up to tJl pz
'c)ta)zd*ttA, ).ttd.i.u.Ling uiltlt oS t)12 ,tlAt Li,otiorla tll,o.X
dppLA. Abaenc4 o{ an en tttg lnd).utnA th.d.t, *rtz l,ea.tute
i.a not aL conen),n 04 tlltl 2he, d,a.ta u(>Le no* c&)Jra,tnn.
S2i9ht
lltodzAatz
Se.ve,a.e
I
2
3
A: Cenen*nd. Pon
B: Cutbanht Czve
C: De-n ae Laget
D: De.ptlt *o Roch
E: Dt oug&g
F: Exr,eta Hunt a
G: Exean Lbne
H: Execaa Sa2*
I: Excc..a Sod,bm
J: Excnl.a Sul.f,cut
K: F&ood)ng
L: Ftto& A&lon
tl: Loa.ge S*onc,a
N: Lott S*).ei,SilL
O: P eatz,[a.oat
P: Pltt):tg
Q: ?ond)ttg
R: Shtdtth-Suell
S: Sl)ppa;ge
T: SLope.
LAL'A'S AA'D LAA'DSCAPTA'G
U: Srml2 S',onca
V: Sub.U.eA
U: Too Ac)y',
X: Too Cla.geg
V: Too Sotld.g
Z: Uttaf,z-bl*. F)j2
a: WelinAa
b: Th),n Layea.
c: Avtz,a Ree)a,in
sorL
iJA/rlE
Degae.c, ond tgpe
o$ te&a)*,.i*on
AE
BH
d/)
GL
KB
KB2
KC2
KD
KE2
KF
Kft
LS
HN
TC
u
3
3Q
2a
3Q
1
I
2T
3T
3T
3T
3aX
I
2K
2T
t
ind)a.t)nS tltz d.egne.e. o,f, aea*a)**ion and up Xo tlvrpn,
e)1a,,1zcaeiA, ind.iu,ilng wh)r,h oi tho 4eAtAld)-ona Xlto.t
applC. Abte,a.e,, o,[ on en t:rg iszd).u.t*.a tha.t *]12 Sez.tu.te.
1A noa a eonee.4n oa tJlal il1,e cln rt ue)Le noX eAunafnn.
Good
Fil)L
Poot
A: A+ez Rec?a,lit
B: Cenent*i, ?an
C: Deptlt to Roeh.
D: Dzoughlg
E: Enodo.6 EaA2g
F: Exe,u F l.nea
e : Ex.c*-aa Hut u.6
H: Exptt Lbne
I: Ex@a SoUt,
J: Ettcrta Sod,Ln
K: Laa.ge StoneA
L: L*t St)stStJ1.
M: Puutu,64o&
N: Stvd:lh.-9lc22
O: Szope
P: Snal2 StotLeA
TOPSOIL
4: Paoba.b2z
5: Impiobdbtz
De.gnee ottd Lg pc.
06 tt ea*)dE*).orl
Q: So12 B2.ooilng
R: Thin Lagc-t
S: Too Aei.d.
T: Too Cta.geg
U: Too SaJ?d,g
V: T oil*).*4
W: Wc;rLeAa
X: PonL,Lrlg
1
2
3
sorr
NAME
AE
BH
d))
GL
KB
KB2
KC2
KD
KE2
KF
Kt4
LS
l{t,
TC
u
3IIPA
gt)
I
il)
3T
2P
2PO
30
30
30
$)
2T
I
20
Rurscll A. Sorrttsotr
Cyril B. Ess
Mcrrill M. Mrdscn
Jim A. Xrpian
Willirm J. ,.cgcr, ,r.
Lawrltlcc E. SJngad
Bruct D. M.lkcrson
hlsfutcnt
Vkc Prcsidcnt
Ttasutr.r
Assr. IrrrsuEr
brdary
EJrgirer
AnonEy
To:
From:
Re:
Lower Minnesota River Watershed Districl
151 WEST r26TH STREE]
BURNSVILLE, IIINNESOTA 5533'i
January 10, 1990
Board of Uanagers
Lawrence E. Samstad, Englneer
0 ffl ce-ta!ehouse Development - Mt keSorenson - Hus 169 &. 212 - Chanhassan
Res ct fu
awrence msta E
Date January 10, 1990
Signed il,
JAN 19 i9sJ
City of Chanhassan
r'r . D. o. T.
Positlon t/.LI 01,;
CITY OF CHANI{ASSEI{
E ,
I have reviered the dralnage and grading plans for the aboveproJect vhlch rirr be conscructed in stig6i-artei t-trJ oasrcgrading is.comprete. I have arso revrewed -the lrojJ"f'11tr, tn"owner.and hls. Englneers.- The pran provrdes ior" stbrm -rater
retention and as a _result rlll' provtde slltation -c-ontror rorsettleable solids. I!e ponds to be constructeO on tf,e iiopertywill create a controtled'runoff and, rlth-r;it-ri;o;'inini"s tothe.overfrows-, will accommodate maximrm known storms wlthoutserious difficultv.. Ttr e Englneer has agreed to suumil iurtnerdetails on sktmmln! devices t"oi iri"["ule sorrds although thls isnot considered to be a maJor concern with thii-f";j;;t.' -"
Erosion controls are provided for the gradi n g phase ofconstructl0n and permanent erosion controls ,irr oe -in''iiJ ro",of proper sod andlor. seeo-tng. --srncJlinoff controls wlrl reducethe r-ate and qualrty of iunoff from exrstlnj-coniltions, ltherefore recommend th.is. p_r-oJect to the Manageis or irrE- lorerMinnesota River watershed'Di;trict for ttr"tr ipprorar *L-:""t tothe submission of adequate detairs of iklmming 'oLvrcii io-6i' ,.uoln the three runoff ponds created in tne planl
The proposal for gradins ?n.d .d-ralnage for.above proJect, subjectto submissron of skrmmef detatrs as -indicateo, is-neieui'"ii"or"oby the Managers of the Lower Mlnnesota River *atersrred 6i.[irct.
Engineer
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MINNEsiOTA \/ALLEY ELEtrTRItr trtrtrPERATIVE
F.O. BtrX 123 .2CJ423.'BHNAtrN MEMORIAL DRIVE
.rEIRDAN, MtNNEBtrTA 33932
DATE
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CITY OF
EH,tNH,tSSEI[
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
October 22. 1987
Dea! l{r. Sorensen:
At our October 9, 1987 meeting, you indicated that the removedpeat material would be sold over a period of tine. Although itis understood that this is a significant amount of materiai thatwill need to be renoved, it ehouldl be completedt in a tineiytDanner- Therefore, the excavating nateriil must be removel fronthe site by JuIy 1, 1988.
In sumnary, the grading operation is authorized at the sitedescribed as Lot 1, Block I, Sorensen First Addition, 550 FlyingCloutl Drive, subject to the plan dateil October 15, IigZ, and-su6-ject to the six items containedl in Larry Brown, Assistant CityEngineerrs memorandum dated October 19,-I9BZ and finally subj3ctto the termination of the sale of excavated material fron the' site by iluly l, 1988.
S incerely,
Attached ition and g
EnEineerinvities. Fthe excava
Balbara DacyCity Planner
BD: ks
Enclosure
s the grading permit for rork outlined in your applica-rading plan dated October 15, 198?. Attacled are-theg Departmentr s conditions of approval for grading acti-urther, I rranted to clarify the procedure ior reiovingted peat fron the site.
ry
llike Sorensen
7605 Erie Avenue
Chanhassen, tlN 55 317
Ola : ara.llr!tEs ara.trla
SOI TFI,VEST PLU}TRING & EEATING CO.
9orrEnclat. r lattDEx?r l.
lXlt^llllloX . IEIODElrria, . lEnvrcB
?aoa lnlE lvlLrrE
GI/.IE^tar.-. IlxN. ltl I ?
January 23, 1990
To: Clty of Chanhaseen
Re: 550 Flylng Cloud Drive Project - Sorengen Addttlon
To rhon lt uay coneern,
Ttrls property rlas purchased by uyself anil Frank Jedllckt as an lnvestEent tfith
the lntention of constructlng uarehouse stolage 8fullar to a Project Frank uas
Lmrolved 10 at that tiEe located on hlghway 169 anil 85th Avenue North.
Itd6 BLte t;la6 selecteal because of lts zonlog 6al the fact that there uas very
1itt1e seser and ratet requfueoeDts for the Ploject re had I'o atnd.
After purchaslng the property re dfscorrered thet lDstead of eanal and iravel
11ke Uoon Vl1ley lravel plt located I alle east oa the a@ blghrry aod at the 6@e
elevatton. I{e encounter a coablnlatlon of allty clay oaterlal wtth upoords of 22t
of peat laying on top of our butldtng 8ite. To oake oatters rorae the entlre h111
r,73s- infestldr.lth sprlnga aod artesien welIs preseatly flovtng at ! rat€ of 400 gallons
per Elnute in the dltdr froDtfEg the Project.
After a close tosPectlDn of the eslatlng tteea Ed vegetatlor it Eas detetsloed
thst they shoulil be removed because they rire grovlng ln the unsultable eoll lrhlch
rould oale it lspo6slble to do a 3ot1 cotrectfoB and also the trees rere very large
aail unstable, crlatiog a hazard to any atructure or road that rcu1tl be bullt.
Ihe site also had a foundatl.on rtrere a tl,ance ha1l and ro11er rlak was at oDe
tine, but in the early fiftys lt raa deBtoryed by ffte leev{.8 the reoeluing of the
o1d fouDdatlon, boller and debrls to 81ao be dealt rtth.
Aoother ptobleo that I encouEtered r.aa r'lth the tt'tle, at ooe tlDe thls slte
ras dlvldeil up tnto lO 1ot6, 8tleeta aod alleya eld before I rag able to do anythlng
I hail to clear thls up wlth a torrea ectlotr rtlch took 3 yeara aoit approxloately $8rfi)0
do1Iars, trro Eurveyora asd every rSetrcy you could luaglue.
Iu the Dea! tloe uy partner becaoe ilf,acouraged aail dtseolveil our Partnerahlp rftlch
ras adatltlonel coat to Eyself to buy b-b out.
At thts tl'oe Ey coat for the land r surveyo!8 Csather 3ergutat) coEatltlng englueer
(advaoce Englneerlng) -for soll bortagr aad ette deelgo heil relluced oy eaeh reserve
donD to notLhtg.
After a year of trattlDg tor the torreElng to get copleted Batb Dacy frm the
Ctty of Granhasse! could eee that the torteo Precldlnga rere going to get doEe ao ahe
autirorlzed iesuelag the bulliltng petrlt r lttls PreseEted a nelr probleo tihlch vas a
$91000 rlollar parL md recreatton fee to the bulldtag per:nlt. At th1?-tlDe I dlvlded
up'the stte la four phasee aod requeeted the councll to cut the $11500 dol1ar an acre
"h"rg. to by oae quatter because th€ Btte could haaille thlee oore butldtage st a hter
date. The council agreed t"Ith thl8 plsa and O.K. uy requeat r
kt0
OrF : ara-llD RES '7a.tar!
SOI TIT}VEST PLUMRING & IIEATING CO.
C]OIIEBCI L t NE'IDEN?TAL
llrltaLl./rtroN . I!;IoDELIN(r . uiRvtcE
?aoc EIE ll'tNrrrt
Gtltalltah.., rtxN. r3tr"
At thts poiat the project can not be codpleted aa Lt sas orlgflally approvedfor the reasons I outlined, so I hlred the ffis of Ron Krueger E AaaocLates to
sork vith Paul Krause to cou€ up vlth a p1atr that rould coryly vlth all ctty
requltemetrts.
Uy 1e6t reetlng rlth P8u1 (rause and Bob Solth of RoE Krueger t AssoclatesI ras told !
ll. That there t,as an ordLnaoce being Lotroduced agaia8t the
constructlon of oetel bulldlngs LD ChanhaaBeD.
f2. That one of the pl.nning comlssioa oeubere waated to ehangethe zoolng back to agrfcultural.
I feel as if oy partaer on the thLs project had the rlght ldea.
To conclude I uould Just llke to say lf we all vork togetber and are reasoa-lble rE can put together a afce proJect.
ll " r Lct'
I4/.6 c 4-: -<----,t*-
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
darf
ha
Ih
use
Dri
che
bui
Septenbe! 6, 1989
ltr. llike Sorenson
?506 Erie Avenue
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear [1r. Sorenson:
ave hapernive. I
concluded that the!
should be resolved
have aLso attempteda site plan for the
other areasrunoff from
complied witproperty lintion. LastI
on the appro
n oppoltunity to review the file on the conditionalor the colal storage building at 550 Plying Cloud
ve also reviewed your conceptual proposal to expanil
690 COULTER DR|VE. P.O. BOXJ473.-CHeH6ltat*, MINNESOTA 55s17
re a number of outstanaling issues whichor to the subnittal of any new p1ans. Igive you an overview of shat ue expect ondition.
operation by the addition of three new cold storageldings. After reviewing the files on this project, I haveea
Prito
ail
be contacting you shortly to arrange for an inspection of theprenises and outline any corrections that may be required. I am
It has come to my attention that all requirecl buildling inspec-tions and final approvals for the building have not yet been
obtained nor has a certificate of occupancy been issued. I have
spoken with Ron Julkowski, the City Building Official . Ee will
trul
the
hor
also concerned that the building as
approval in that it is equipped withinsulated and heated and thus no 1onrelated to me that Barb Dacy autholirestroom, however, if you could expl
be heated f would appreciate it.
wit
thehiea
Yt
veal
constructed deviatesanitary facilitiey cold storinclusion othe buildin
rom the
nd is. You
ame to
sfsa
agefa
9c
9er
zed
ain
Other elements of the existing site cause rne a good deal of con-cern. The tree cover on this property appears to have been oneaspect that was considered in the original approval of this pro-ject, since it was intended that dlirect viers of the site roulalbe treavily screenecl. As you aware, there are no longer any treesre.aining on the site. The grading that has occurred i6 exten-sive anil the site has not been restored. There are large lreasalong the bluff line that appear to be eroding and extensiveh open grounal rrith little or no attempt Eo lowersite. Other stipulations that have not been
ncluale the installation of a fence along the eastnd the preservation of trees up to the 750t eleva-
berming along the TH 159 exposure l,as illustratedplan and this has not been installed.
brt
ltr. Uike Sorenson
Septenber 6, 19 89
Page 2
I understand your problens tsite and will work with you
concerned that so nuch of thIt soulil be useful for you tyou encountered to give to talong with your expansion p1outstanding guestions.
2
3
ou have had i.n developing thise extent possible but I am verye seems to be out of compliance.te up a sunmary of the problems
anning Corurission for reviewince this nay help to answer
hat y
to th
e sito wri
he PL
ans s
As we discussedr.your_proposed expansion of the cold storage willreguire a re-review of the conditional use peruit andl sice-Dlanconducted in the same manner as the originai approval. Givln thecurrent status of the site and the extensive nllure of the addi-tions you are-proposing, I would like to see the foffowing nit-ters addressed on any site plan that sould be submitted f5rreview by the City.
1. Ihe underlying
conditions.tooographic nap should reflect actual site
e provided. It is likely that on-site
. along with curbing and other inprove-he drainage system functions as -
A drainage plan musponding will be nee
ments to insure tha
i nten<ied .
An exten
emphas i s
occurred on this property andof use. The heaviest Screeninsouthern exposure but the eastalso neeil to be considered. Iwish to construct the fence thproperty line, an extensive ladeveloped in its p1ace.
Other site plan details outlined in theshold also be provided.
rb
dedtt
sive landscaping plan shouLd be provided. Ion extensive given th e total loss of treesthe desire to screen tg should occur along tand west sides of then particular, if you dat rras proposed alongndscape buffer should
p
thhi
he
p
o
th
be
ut theat hass type
roperty
noE
e east
5 zoning ordinance
r am encrosing a.set of application documents for the conditionaruse pernit and site plan approval for your use. I am alsoenclosing a checkllst of items oost of rrhich woul.d be furnisheaby the site plan on subnitted docunents.
lle will be expecting to have the entrance driveareas surfaced t,ith blacktop. Increased use onoverLand drainage and steep grades reguire thatinstalLed. I should also point out that pavingreguired by city ordinance.
and parkingthis site,
Pavenent bea 1ot is
4.
ttr. ltike Sorenson
Septenber 5, 1989
Page 3 ---
Please feel free to contact De asthat se may work-out.any problens
. i .- :
S incereLy -yours , .
these plans are prepared
aheatl -of 'time.so
a ul Krauss, AICP
Directo! .of Planning '
P(rv "-
Enclos ures
.-.rt.-:'- ._ -.-
a: ..r I '' r-.-'- C'.: -- -. r:-r' . '
:-- 1 :'J
. '-: *:
'i
T
I
t
t
\
t
!-l-and Surveying
lon fruaglrI lssoclatas, lnE.
&80 UAnac€ Road
Eden Prairi€. Mirnesota SS344
l6t2)98/'4242
ffiI\ISd{ATX)ITU{
APPLCANT
Mike Sorenson
7607 Erie Avenu€
Chanhassen, MN 55318
(612)934-948
Ron l&rcger & As.sochtes, lnc.
E080 Wallacs Road
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
(61219344242
Roben P. Smih, Dir€ctor of tarxl Phnning
Janrary 22, 1990
he
r
t:
I
I
I
PREPARED BY
RE' Site Plal Appro\ral, Varianc€ and Conditional Use permit.
RKA18906
Slte DBcrlptlon/Back Ground
tot 1, Bock 1, SoRENSoN ADotfloN, b 4.90 *res, bcated on f.}e nortt nida of Higtrway 169. Th€
site cunerily has ong 9600 squars foot metrl building in place, and is beirp useJ as intended, a
storage facility. This building i8.tfie lirst ol lour buildings on this property. The site currenly
has no public sanitary s€w6r or city wator auailsble.
Ptoviqrs !o the filst building, th€ site was a series of Bmall yacanl loE. Tho vegitation was rough,
Bmall $r@ession growth tr6€s ard undergrovth. subeequenl to th€ grading ard construclion, some
orosbn tias oaqJned.
Loc !t lo n /Own er. h lp
This sito is e 4.9 acro parcal ort'ned by Mike soranson. Mr. sorercon has previously platt€d
soveral small underlaying lots into one parcel 'Sorenson Addi6on'. The parcel it arnentiy-zoned&F Business Fringe.
Re{ue.l
This projed rsquosts site plan approEl br construction ot &reo m€tal buildinF. An arnerdment b
the sxisting Conditional Use Permit and a varhrrce to thg proposed m€tal building ordinarrce to
Grandlafier this projsct into camplianca.
1.
Pl.n Propo3al
The ir ent of Mr. Sor€nson is to grede lhe sr ire parcsl at one lime and complote all ?ovegetation
after the inilial grading, in ttre spring of 'l gg0. One building will b€ immediately @nstructed on
thE southeast @rner ol the project. The two buildings on the wost hall ol the site will be
constructd as markot demands dkiato. This proisct does have approval ftom lhe Lower MinnEsota
River Watarshed District. The anached plans have been revisad to meet the watsrshed
requirements of the January 10, 1990 fansmittal.
lhdsrcs
PresEntly, there is a 9600 square foot motal storags building on lhe site. This building was
approved and constructed nearly two ygars bofore the n€* mstal building ordinarrco was concsived.
Additionally, it was tho intent ol Mr. Sorenson to continu€ building three more stolago buildings
with later approvals. Because ol the existing buildir|o on tho site and the intent lor future
construction, a Grand- iather Amendmont should bo approved br lhb 3it8.
Condltional use
This proiecf requires an amendment to th€ prss€nt Conditional Uso Permit allowing a storage
lacility in the zoning distrkr. This action should also be a Grandtathor lo li€ Presenl uss.
Summary/Conc lu3lon
The cunent proisct has one metal storags building that was constructed in 1988, City sanitary
sawsr and water ere not available to the 3ite. This proPosal b lo obtain site plan approval tor
gBding, landscaping and the construclion ol throe motal storags buildines, sach aPproximat€ly
9600 square t€et. The site will bs graded 8nd revsgetation d ong timo in the sprim ot'1990. Ulith
the lirct building b be buih at the same time. Elituminous driying surtacg will b€ install€d to s€rve
the lkst two buildings. The remainirp bituminous drive areas will be installad as tho oth€r two
buiHings aro construcled.
The granting ol th6 varianc€ and the amendmont b the conditional use permit is based in th€
Grandla8rerirp of the €risfng project. This ptoject does have the appro\El ol the Lower Minmsota
River wateBhed District and he anach€d Phns reflsct their requiremants.
lf you have any questions r€garding $is popoeal, phase call me 8t 934.{242.
Sircerely,
Robert P
Dkector P
BOT,I KRJEGER&D,rc.
RPs/kal
OC: Mk€ Sorgrson
2.
EHINHISSEN
P.C. DATE: Feb. 7, 1990
C.C. DATB: Feb. 26, 1990
CASE NO: 90-2 ZOA
Prepared by: Krauss/v
STAFF REPORT
Fz
C)
=LL
E
lrJta
zoning Ordinance Amenalment to Create an R-I6, High
Density Residential DistrictPROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT :City of Chanhassen
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZOIIING
AND LAND USE:N-
s-
E-
w-
WATER AND SEIIER:
PEYSICAI, CEARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
CITY OF
R-16 District - zOA
February 7, 1990
Page 2
P8O?QS4!lSUMMARY
On January 8, 1990, the City Council approved the final readingfor Zoning Ordinance amendments pertaining to parking standards.
The Planning Conmission had reviewed and recommended approval ofthis ordinance amendment late last year. As you may remember,the most controversial aspect of this ordinance pertained tomulti-family parking standards with the City Council ultimatelydeciding that the ordinance as drafted was acceptable with theprovision that residential dweLlings built in the R-4, R-8 andR-12 districts will be required to provide Il enclosed stalls perunit.
rn discussions rdith representatives of the multi-family housingindustry and with staff, the City Council acted on severalrelated matters. The first is that the existing R-I2 districtprovided inadequate densities to support multi:family housing ofthe kind that is typically found in the southwest suburban area.Staff had indicated that nost developments have density rangesbetween 12 and 20 units per acre. It was further indicated thatwith architectural designs commonly used for high density develop-ment, it is physically impossible to locate urore than onE parkin!stal1 per dwelling unit in underground garages unless theunderground component is expanded well beyond the building wallsof the upper structule. The Council agreed that free-standinggarage buildings might be utilized to meet enclosed parking sia11reguirements but that this was an an unattractive soiutionl Infurther discussions, the Council also reached a concensus thathigher density development would support a reasonable parkingstandard for one enclosed parking stall per dwelling w-ith anadditional stall required per unit on the exterior lIus one-quarter sta1l per unit reguired on the exterior for visitorparking. The last related matter that iras discussed pertained toharcl surface coverage reguirements. Staff indicated Lhat thenaximum lot coverage of 35$ that is found in the R-12 HighResidential District was probably too low to aIIo$, for thedevelopment of higher density projects. Several menbers of theCouncil indicated that they would reconsider this standard butthere was no clear agreenent on whether it should be raised.
Based upon these discussions, the Cexpedite consideration of a new higdistrict. This district is to be abuilding densities at a maximum ofenclosed parking ratio and potentia
coverage allowance. The att.ached p
responds to this Council directive.
ity Council directed staff toh density residentialn R-16 district allowing
16 units per acre, with a 1:1lly with a higher 1otroposed ordinance amendment
The R-16 district as proposed would be restricted for useareas alesignated for high density residential in the CityComprehensive Pl.an. Minimum 1ot areas are proposeit to be
in
2 r700
R-16 District zOA
February 7, L990
Page 3
square feet per unit, which is commensurate with a 16 units per
acre cap. Staff is proposing that the maximum lot coverage beraised from 35t in the n-12 district to 50t in the R-16 district,
which we believe to be more consistent with this type of develop-ment. In reviewing this standard, it must be recognized thataccording to current ordinances, the lot coverage reguirement iscalculated on the land which is left after designated wetlands
anil park dedications are excluded from the total site. In ouropinion, allowing tlevelopment of 50t of the remaining area doesnot seem excessive and is consistent with standartls commonlyfound in other metro area communities.
Staff has surveyed a number of suburban communitieslearning their requilement.s for maximum hard surface
These results are presented below.
relative to
cove!age.
Apple Valley
B loomi ng ton
Eden Prairie
Edina
Building
s tandard
coverage set at 25t, nofor other hard surface
Building coverage set at 30t, no
stanalard for other hard surface
No standard outside
zones
of Shoreland
Eagan No hard surface coverage reguire-ment. Maximum density of 14 unitsper acre.
Maplewood No hard surface coverage require-ment. Uaximurn density of 18 unitsper acre alloweal.
M i nnetonka Maximum hard surface coverage 70t.
As you can see, information regarding this standard plesents uswith an apples and oranges requirement. Onl,y one of the com-munities surveyed has a total site hard surface coverage standard(Minnetonka, which al1ows up to 70t). The other communitieseither have no requirement or only regulate building coverage.
However, we believe that the data demonstrates that Chanhassenrscurrent standald of allording a maximum of 35t total hard surface
coverage is more restrictive then found in the surveyed corn-munities.
The proposed building selbacks have been increased beyond the
R-12 district, which we believe is consistent with the highintensity nature of development that would. occur in this area.
Building coverage Iimited to 35t ofthe site, maximum clensity of 17.8units per acre allowed
R-16 District ZOA
February 7, L990
Page il
Building setbacks are proposed to be 50 feet with parking set-backs 25 feet. If a building ove! 50r in height is proposed,
setback requirements would be increased to provide 1l I of setbackfor each foot of building height over 50'. A proposal to modifythe recently adopted parking standarils is also included in thisrecommendation .
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff reconmends that the Planning Commission approve theattached ordinance.
AT?ACEII{ENT
Ordinance amendment.City Council minutes dated January 9, 1990.
1
2
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, UINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO.
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 20
OE' THE CHANHASSSEN CITY CODE
The City Council of Chanhassen ordains:
sEcTIoN 1. Article xv, shafl be amended by adiling Section
2 0-580 - Section 20-684, R-I6, High Density Residential District
as follows:
section 20-680. Intent.
The intent of the R-15 District is to provide for multi-
family residential structures at a maximun net density of sixteen(16) dwelling units per acre on lantl guided for High Density
Residential uses by the City Comprehensive P1an.
section 20-681. Permitteil Uses.
The fo1lowin9 uses are permitted in an R-I6 District:
(1) l{u1ti-f ami ly dwellings.
(2) Public and private parks and open space.
(3) Utility services.
Section 20-682. Pelmitted accessory uses.
The following are permitted accessory uses in an R-16
District:
( 1) Garage.
(2, Storage bui 1din9.
( 3) Swimming pool .
(4) Tennis court.
( 5 ) Signs.
(6) Home occupations.
(71 one (I) dock.
Section 20-683. Conditional uses.
The following are conditional uses in an R-15 District:
(I) Health care facilities.
(2, Day care center.
(3) Group houre serving from seven (7) to sixteen (15) persons.
(4) Recreational beach lots.
(5) Temporary real estate office and model home.
( 6) Churches.
Section 20-684. Lot requirements anil setbacks.
The following minimun reguirements shall be observed in an R-15District subject to additional requirements, exceptions and nodifi-cations set forth in this chapter:
(l) The minimum lot area is as follows:
a. For a tosnhouse or rnulti-family drellingl two thousandseven hundretl (2r700) square feet per dwelling unit.
(2, The minimum lot depth is one hundred fifty-five (155) feet.
(3) Ihe maximun lot coverage is fifty (50) percent.
(4) The building setbacks are as follows:
a. For front yards, fifty (50) feet.
b. For rear yards, fifty (50) feet.
c. For side yards, fifty (50) feet.
(5) Parking setbacks shall be twenty-five (25) feet from allproperty lines.
(6) The maximum height is as follows:
a. For the principal structure
( 50) feet. creater buildinby the City but building seto provide 1.5 feet of setbheight above fifty (50) fee
hree (3) stories,/fiftyeights may be allowedcks will be increasetlfor every 1 foot of
CITY OT CHANHASSEN
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b. For accessory structures, one (I) story/fifteen (L5)feet.
SECTTON 2. EFFECTIVE DATE.
This ordin
passage and pu
Adopted by
ATTEST:
ance shall be come effective inmediately upon itsblication.
the City Council of Chanhassen this _ day of, rgg0.
Don Ashworth, City [tlanager DonaIa J. ehmiel, Mayor
BY:
.'i.ss e--.. 5EL..rg -.rEr.€I,x aa E r9
Ctq i9ea rpt ibEtlre ttD-bs tttf. h tbt ael(br h dl Fsablllty 1131.,LtF6!.hfy dr b ttr caterltrc. Du 56;1rg b,vt b Oi qlttrtni to gct iisiaurbtg-hrt tf lrnr cnt to Btrblldt it of aord o ,,i,rr da; li U," Onty,tEr !E hrG to gD tbroqth. F@rs.
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ligu chld: tl t-''.frtE rD otE dtrcr,-rtsr qr tt.
fEllnst drr,lcr rwd, Ctrrdtrrfi .Erlol -odd to clo- Ur rsllcbartry. fU yotd tn 6vor lrd tb rotlcn orrld
,OrIIrc @I}ArcB X{EDI{EYI EESDIIG (E?.SINEET BNf,I}E llD IADIIE lo lnOvIDE
DI}EEIO|tsI, STAIDIADS, ITGETSE IBRKITT3 lDqorNggrS tl BRiAliTED BY SIIT EANnBIIEf, lrD ZO nEQUEE! EtrGED B8RUE Fm ID llEnlr-rr-c !(n t{E tptl EN{!L'DIiEI&tEs, Saro nEBDIE.
E[l Eaurss tt dE lllt l.rtlrE t! CttV cn Etl Tpro.rd tb ftsrt roaittng ofur cdllnaa adrsrt that Es alcstgnd to cot{n€h.iltrnly dml rftn prklni.t!rd!rils. the fusrr of o-rrrre^drat got tftl rct rttenud Fttalnd 'to tttistrdlrd-aballrg wlth-rurttl-frtt_fy farkfq. !h. pl.rrrlrE Odr.,f.ttsr ngrcao .rdd that ultt-firdly unltr !c rlgulrd to trrre f frrZ ocfora rtaUrqkg, a, !-Eross basll ard rrrib thrt rcurr'crdattsr to tf: iAty 6trrE[: !Eclty-erElr Eavc flrrt readtng to tb eattrurr.c ddruo.dt i i-irrrrior uutould.Eve rcgdrcd 2 ciElord rtallr tc nrftl-trrdfy rlrtt . E ,.,v.r; tll6rrE11 lrdicateit ttrrt the rt.rdarat 6r1i! b atlrcrrld aEaln et tt a;;redlrq G rould bc ittrusld tgaln at ttE t ord rcdtni .r.l g.r,. ttrti regutdsr to-f@] rt tstrrrulrg ort- torrtrq!: FElfrlg *art!ral.' Uto.cr-dq[u, E -ds fror, mftt-t:ntl.y' brlld>, tprUritt, omc'Jnfrru. ltiqr.nt &aft cdl$uru tEs ben rad!.d EGarnE to t r fuEtl.r lllrrtlouStetf do .oed tIE lntrrvalq t $. to tad.r tbc o8dt,urr rrl 6tdn -
]rirttdEl alrt rd lral b UE f,ltlt b drdt tlat r telvd r iC-oi rtorci.rrr or thla ac Ell. tt ccntlmr to bcuerr. tqt ttt gf ilnsrloral rtrllr for tqrlho!.r, dostcl rd gratl lr rrfllctcnt to -!a ildatgd t{ut-rculd xtually br geruatd .rd rrta tht tbtr rtadard EtrfO-pfeolr$.!sE r in dr fccfrsrt o! ttr r€ro GE ,ri i!ft. of r*abltrtrt; til.rtndard. ttr. .roedd pnfy E7 cr corrrrlqr ld tD.tra Efn r nd-rcqdtr. 2,Elord frllr !t thj.r tlm. tE bcfhlr tllet tht! Epr of tnuG tucils allEavr-r gircrtcr Frkiry atg'.rd ttr.n db a1urh-rt od Ii ratea rini Ori-itrorrrd. -lttEyr !c l"rger. G:y lavr rurltlglc ecqrrctre rd tlllt irrrr-lr rrlrq,to srslder that tib murd g.,rntc u!- rcguin-e $ert r nqbrr of rtaur ryt
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F.9nld peab- f.v ptnt ort to lut . 1116.r of cqw,ntttcr *>ro t r.ytrihtldlrg rrltlprca tlr.! rdr ar- .rd bni r lot of grcar f,lo. Ee in trrat n-recltag,ory rd tilt FuLt b . E:, b & tt. irrc forr GorrU-go I to I *ttchrculd mlvr-tb gdlctr t+t E pretr gm br -t that rs-1ur.t!d3 -d go 3rto_rles high, rd tiltr. lbout +f tt. nfgbr o .vlrrgo grErrnt hffdfngtday goea- bccaure of -s6t, pnt! hve r I to I ratlo. - SI ln Utm *r.rG-t!!g,
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!9ntE lrd lgr€e ttat tt dDrr:d cotc brlc ard peopf- tirt hfic n-Il thlt EuldIb to & U!.t, llle tttonr., tlEy Eutd Jult g.tr. tn tS rrEut rr tpgr&!n zrlry D tlEy @ulit butld ttrtt q|p ot trrlEtrg. rrtlb tbi, alo it rl-tlEratc tlne tl:y ktng the plan ln. lhe othcr ry to & ta rolld-b to al, tits.
Ior 90 to mrlt!-frr,ll3r qd :!xr rty 2 !F+r, I d l.tltcn b .'clo*d. Oo!r?t:n 1on t qlt lt6r 2 erd 1pu drnge t t lhftnltlcr o! rerltt-trdI, to b-l6ults. lt E!8 .hpl.r mttl yu Eet to @rdo. tor .rG th* Brjd be llrd ofr rrbuloc area prd lf 3ru itld Ult E, Stct rd t ryd tiole trrc tallcdt to orcrbe, donrt bur of uq' fc rale buaftg tht Er{.d loh ltte r EritDu* thltElld be Dullt rrah rrore dun lil qrtr pr gl!: tn lact Bt ol pur rurlttplcatday are- tn tb 32 ,rtlts tg a8-rDltt pr bdfdkq. t arDpor. lur-ould Gr- goq, r! bigh !B 3:1. t nr udqg t6 bcaure t thtnt tlrttt .bout tat ae of tfri
t,rdcets, tlke thlt tbzeltlrc crt . 1r. tr e 16 |!dt fG tsrt lEo6ct lrd ttnrld laU ,nto t]rat c.Egory brt e (btrt bpr of rsq,. f.nr-do-!q1 }rpr. ofu1, tDnstrg? tq-Jylt ddr.t & lt.- 19! abrrt-gat 4r vtnlos. tCgcta to btg.!it !'9u catrrt .ell lt. lb,u ti!!, ddo tt try gofry p !|lt li't Euld L S EFof rolv149 tlc p&Ier.. O!, lur rlFpfy drargc E! plr.gtaph. ard Dop gurriegot Ure odo dhratlcr @rrcrd bca8c lDlr nl'l hve to-ttinf of I aiflittlorcdo, ard ti.trr a for t.lc tD|lsfrE. lta ory llrlttplr Futd b . 16 l,rtt cg|!! tcr. l[rerc rr to &lutlmr rhtctr n tiln] tlle trrru*ry Euld Ept. turtat '
brtn cmtror ourr th tro.nt of Elrqrer yur Drrn ard th prot*tr rnrd lr.r to!c lpt_pi'rc tltereatcd ln r€-tlrcn rltlr Eulrr ddlttdal-drangct - f..Ur,gttanitards. lor bu, rdfug trce_FrtlrS Fbt E Ju.t &ntt bn.r-t tltni yurnrld bave ]1 ordllnarc th.t r.dd rEt *tt fq ieoU b lof&g fu. !Dr*Fl.
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lutg*lrE, _! Frran nr.th 2 O3l,;ns.eg fr-'i coura n5i-aii F€gslces.oghr* effordabtc. & rrist t talk .bout etfotdablc brulrg, rihta-iiL lrafngall lb rDt s &sr, tnc gcvtos plrnrry Qwrrsrqu ud ii" F'rto,i o.,Elr.etltgs, affordabtlter-nr e uJc lrrnjc ntrd uder thtr oi(tl ;. & rhEl!,u. tdk &* rfforit$rc, yurrr- rrt trrHrB rrsyr *orrt to, i,E; Foplc. tt.inrld b cl..' ular to r prut_nkh, gzLrigsg.eg7 r fr iC aegricg.wr nhlctr& .bour $c ronrt you G!!-brnd a ar,rsil-i#Jii idrty; i-,"i iil L rt -,p_:?d- qpr.ry, boir-.- cee,ee q.rs i Eoory a; iilii rui-d;-brlu.t,rErc artrly Ir.. Errc t lkfrB rbout.tonhmca *lfdt cr; b brltt 6l
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lo.t grald bu* of rlotEs. tltrr . heg out&ratto. tt ltoer rdredgrstty. I!-deg Eorrt+ gEGr qla trlt tt eleo rdrr! flrt tEEa ttat lpuon Frt-Ftktng foE.- t6!b r{ruf e 39rHry, rd I ttrlrrt rrre libl of rtoragec ontslde, tbtqe lth. th.t can b. ih.rt dBt ud t tlllnk tiel' akcaQr are innr aillnarer Eul, lf lrr rDt lrwGt. StoE ge of rptorturca. Storage ofbots rd e folti, !r tar !r atttde, le gotrlbttd. lt Lld cratdnl!'lh,tteal rd tbt Glrl b...ilt dtll ,n pur-aurtge trrJly.1.o. lErlnr't rtlekgtb- tlE poctttcn I dtd lllt tli. rd ltd llhr b brt e t6- pofntr-oriidEd.,|bdr 1uu
Btc* Iltrry: Btct lllr!]'. th e CtrfilrrErr rsla-rt. Iln t lGft €!r. Etlnglt dlE rEh, I h.al tto coEErnl tbt I < tE tty rtrcrlEly rbant. lft.tgotry tluaEh ralt hulrs srardd to prr tonfgnt, I filnX tb.t brl cqe amluslor thlt t coul&rrt tri.trtbte bat t arap*.tdt .rd tltrt Et tEctqi rdtlulr *ttlstt rtutns. I dldrrt Ert tD e drb caurlllfty IIrt ltcll ort-ofblrGs tq ! rtlrd.rtl .tElti.rrt hr[dlrg. r badl e real orsr.h, ur.t. rttlnt tt t r$.t Eulr. doE GE &t {tr rt!!f blr iloc he do.! tlt .i.t lntocsulderatlsr. ltten EEd lrd I nre talktq a len dnrtce !go, E eEderfrE .brt br to re*e . dlrtlrEtlqr. .|!ta rtardari! rnlt, as Ed Erurtlorfig, Fu get tIE 3 .tclc. !d I rElo.d rpe lt !E Ert 6 Ft tt tqrce |,der$olrd, belor rch rDlt. f thlnk f+rt rorchor tUt Ue to L
rdllrecsedl .o th.t 3ou dolrt trut Ch.nh.rarn out of tlt alErtr.nt b.rlldtrE E*Gttota[y. .lhtn r you {o tnlt rdttr gr ,rErc!r.i! ac af *:tbr yur & tf,.t tryranl_FlattrE nlrtDer3 rtthtn yu:r &ttnlttmc l:rc, t tbtnk thltr- rc'athlng tieltaft can rcorgf tsh. !b otls oterrldt4 ootern .+.t t bd na drat lngacral rs ronlrg catcaulcl c nlrg clr*glflcatlors of lld, I dl.hrt Ett tore Chanhlclen bccotc rur.<rgettttve rttn ltrt rrlgltor. bc.ur fuGrr a lotof otlE! rrultlplc Ed tEoFrB, bettsr bat rd |.lsorrr lErr Eltt to 9o, Etuf$rt siU b used lf e canrt b gtce ccrptlttrn rdtlr qu-lryd bt.. -ti -calr't De glae cor,ptltlwr l.o. lf e bve to .dit rwle rtd,Ir, tbereil rp
tn{stry f9lts th.t lr rqc -nsltlve b ttr. EIet ,n tt bdiatfrE hirrE!,.
Its bt-ve hlLter. errgy p.l that b.\r. tll ntrforttr of golq brotcE tour-O:grrcnit *n5ltlvc to tielr mrlctr. lb hElrlete thtt lDu !r!t & thlr, r.!r ttir.rk tse do,r.t .cst, to b utlrg lo8 tbt, lan Errt get tbrt bllt br. ttvfU get butlt ,n ! car.nlE, Utlt db.anrt lfgtelatr 6tt. r&at Gr . ooEEnI b.al. I thlnk that ttr cc,Etlrrn b!rr. bsl rataLcrrcal rrd I l,tlnl rabqtstefy
.aldrc$ed bg yur rtaff rsutgdallm. ttd a{f,ort tlr attff recrurtt&tfot- UE ttde asle .ort of cffort to gGt . rtaldard eprhtrt ccrglo b.ch tntoCb!r$!ss€n. Stud.rd btrE *tn lur go to. 3 *or!r Dutl.attrtt, fui lut gD brhrc 3ur btr yrurrc aofr€ b bavr udcr$ord FrldrE, tttt t thtn* bi btt t, IEetE,cloE b l to I to gcrt r&.t E bDr.a. rDrrr. f hdfdhq rurrtgtrt ru. lb gct tD* to Ert. I $!t thtr..Il ry alErt . trrt 3a.
ll Xf&Edhrtr! lor hslal rbt I rltd tlll Ltt t r. t.r rm gDlr Dd tt tnt :trfnuu . 9e thfry ltr gotng-to hl-lg-ql.- DotE grot ]f2 rdt r1lt*rtttlgtt or Our rflrr. I'Ie go! . d-+!E-UefnE ln or, r-notlrt-tn-lr ifrtqf ln.rDt{rr or an! e toal grod fttcrd ftv&E ln lrths or. trd 4r t vtrlt orG tie otlEr or of tlDD 3 Trrburtt.t tt.tt orr e rI. tti rt|vc ptfu thlt t couldrtt llrd t G a Frkllg 3tdlr IE,..ch o! ol ttr- .q,irtrsrtrrd tlDse TErts!.rt sc brllt rlth letr Ur.n 2 FttI E 4:cu rr urti.Ortdc unltr. lt ,r8t *.t', oaE tht dt of r lfirn Gr.nhllrrt alanld bt tobavr 2 udergrord prtlng placa fu -dt Trrtsrrt trlt ilq rrr 1{}!ttlqralortrt& qucc, rhlct t,rrrD rD eJecttou b. frd t Urlnt Euf bt dsr ,rqccllent Jcb of reearcilng lil.. tD!t, of lb ttlng lrlt brr rGqtlrildd t
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E1u-Grtdrl: f" p,:1. raur ele? tf bartng lur, crll tEtng ft bcf toerrctf. fnllrt ufuhfrE O taroes tt? .,t!?
Gscttrtr, Jotntdls r r.tgfit-.s su rtart oat. t-thlnr eyclbqy Foblbu'brs nhcrc 95. eot? !o eo gccaSre I Es F.ttr, ptrt" tretiii.- i ttrtr,,-rr,Jcdtnrc talt r.strlct!.- drortty grqp iltlii E[-;r.jrrlE-;fi I D.lfGiEttlr ordtruu 6es,-lt tr I nrtticlioj€alrlrt tb.l6]E:'ft[r:?fftf! ?qr-,"t .trE- Fnr po4rc of tti-oo,rrrty.-rJi-r ilirr.trmqr:,.r't trr! IrFpr. rD bu. rDt ide lt to r.hrc r f,xr. t thlntr tt ,t qrr J6to-IEot-t err Ac!1, -t $or F m-Joffty. r tlltnr-ttrti adf;;il, er,rr.t. L vl. tf trrt tr eaer [l rta oc-u itrruala .F.E tto t:b .!. rrts.r ig lD.'e, t donrt.thlnl.thlttr rlgtrt. r Aor,'t iiffivr-6r;;,; rrrfrf tf.
il[,ffi"ss.i* "H H,tstfJai#'#ssl*.* ;Itr,. ln . littlc tc"" .E a .'d.1..rr rokt'g t& tr.i;^iE;: t tbrr*ttt -y cdtlnancc rh.t-dc. sttlct r rrtrcritg-rr-* .-iiiti,.r... ttqgotrs to carrnrr to vot!_.grlntt ttb. tld uL b a-fi 2 Eiii* -ul*gr +.y rtght at r. li :nrv praor r nlyrr-th. rr-F6.ffiir ao,or.'.trD alorble I ..e rD sFlat rd4, ir-cantt hir. Z.^ IUr clr.i, 511;d,51. lo.r crrd.clgrn_a^2 clr 9rr!9. lnto r dor$L r.l Gry. ] W e t-ilOfl 6 e anur,qe rlirerr gorrg to brrre rr tlre otls rroe'dgorrp-io hrd; ; il.zz d--,t
. Eq ay.€nE to re cr.lbuble bc.. Or e i,ua] f VZ cli-rnh. L. r,* to:r. ln th.t 2 of dtn gT blyc.2 car grrqcr ;1g-Z'oi Cfrt6 ii glrTer. r=ffi.Hi'aumiH..i,f;*.ffi'ffi]irjl!l:*?i:!SH &:iPl'#[l'*. tq rvtod r &i,t trr&ruEr lt'r a god edtirure q go to t Vt-aa Z-t-tbt,*-i; If-..ifiI. 21 rrnJ3ot asxlp f9a,- lst... *rut Co,Lr rpr*nti. l+,! D{, d1\. Ay hd oE
Eilie.q-ff; H".['l#,ffir X; snffifl5;tlltd to trtil, $drr rorer rru;, ttpy torrrrt-ri:El urfriffi?ny ru..,:$l-u,t. tr-gcfg to_bc a pr6rr,, rati t'lp ioc!-tt;-r;-fr.li.dy Dourtlut'r orctl3r r.l!t t.n raying. I tE rD rrro,t fu ft. - -
ourllrtan titcEh.n: t- tttnl !r-!,r. got . lot lEolg rltt {irt b rau tst, trcffi*rlB#:#:! r,xg r Iil ::i*-*. r dSffi,ffiffitrffiffihrc ln channrc.- t4! - r--ro ar { tD ..y z u.t i co-rG-ll]iuu-. rg.-r F* r.u r.:drE lr-.,_ rrat grg'r ..o ip. 1116 d;;;E tn.r.Ctq.lr€ Jr:,_tD!t t thtntr_rutD. ryr-''emotfn9. tlrt r.. 6 L'oC eE€ctrrrr,.rd ltt Et of uor lrtctrm. r l-'t urinr or;rrt iil.i-ptnc toF-arrytb&s e Gr.rtpody. r dclltr ritnl a hrri-qr triA;EL ut.rts'!. i.ktrg r thcrrtqr or rpt r ers rD r re.rirf lfft;& contirtyhrt la, E Ert o,. cfr,,,dE, p l9{r to th tq,l' ..b-im ;'fr;tr.nt Er,- ls E 9!t t? 2ul .rrt !. 9.t I rot of trtd rd iou[h.r;-oErh.r;J.i],q0, rUrj,rrl -nrro gotrf to taul r rtrcq r.d lor rce or cr-tifii r-rr *ria-iH; -i: fii'H$ffilf*. S?
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&rElb€,r Egt: dray. ttrll aLlft to Ur otJE trolG brc rlorly. I ltte
Eldtrr l& .bout. reparae rat. I tilnl tt gtvcl ue an qtrtLrfty to ab rlot of thtngs. tn F16 rsc ln *rtctr tiryh e *rt qr t re I to I lrzl iukca anreto E. I grcss lt crc tluoryb to r rfui t .rr tl! Tat ,n ttr ppr .t rEtrlr aythfuE. lf,fcdtable hdrgl rs tb grrtlcra alat ttrlr aaafrry, lr r verl'ilbulo8 t rrr. t t rlr* tJDuEb th.t lf relrc taltlrq &orrt brrdEg tllt rolld bln tb rcch ot Fq,le *p rfgbt rDt ottEUls eDl.Ity, tEe arr-ottrr btErGIB to gct tDare. ltn Ctty dpuLd b gradry mtgqo g[tt nbs. E jDrrld
F8sdr€ ,nEre.t-Glt abm. rd tt 6Enr olt-tilt tt. .Ftnem'r FqErB, tr ,n. tlr lrElrsrt aktttct rrd t titnk l- dprrfd b prad4g n1p tn *itcA f,c canotfer ! hf$r gultQ ltvlng qorbnlq, tD P.ople -t t .!-eru R4lb tb FbeFuld b tf b bat to Fy tfE *tolG brtliltn tltrolEll tlle mrlrt. trlt tBdt ilttEre Cb.nbGen gwl& h€ to tro,I,l. *D rtgrtrt rct h $le b otltrrlD.f,fcat
lrEt, t:trroqh tice Ernr t.hm I ruLd ry rtrg Chrnhrlra Eovtde tIDG ble8!g rEcrlr gfnE ibveloprt to brtlil to tE lor.t rtarlard barre ttrt rDt ruy
fugast6 cn ellrtl'g haror. tt ,riprct! or tlE drrt dtr, dorl tb rod. tErt gt€rr Tlce d FltE In ad +roud Ttarbqtt trru"attngt Ed tllrt,r golry tD
oo6t tlE &e).opr rr. r.rt!, trrt ltra EoltE to gtt'! tb EErtm *D ltvra tbc
a hlgher Crdfty plre O lfin. t thtnk F t llled tJr otlr! n19trt1 nlbc tt prn e llrtErcnt riE.r tt Es 2, belor, ,eEo outlldb th.t aFttstant Duttdlr€E t '.tlcve rD coverd FrIlnS c..taldy trrrt $oE pople et a dkailrtatage lnlllllsotarr eatls ard tiey lnnttc crha. t tltnk pmmalty, t ahfnk E hre
P168, of cxr{rles ln tosr of quad b,Es Jr, aplerca tfilt hee 2 car garagcs
. rttaff lrd ttEy'r. aI1 ruI. 8o t thttn tblttr ! roaroublc rtaydaril od f- tiln* tlp rartet thould 3mct tnat lttardard rd tl tt &rm.t rpt lt !ntb ahort ter,r th:n donrt brlld lt. Ert tt u111. ltprctl no Elr ln tb sldIt. tttdl ti.t li)lrrre gotrE tD brlu lu'rs 6 *trbsttt ttut r* gotng tD lrrt
to 1nple r.tD lle r.ktrB €5,99 ltd S?.gg rr ha. torr slntt (b tt rlttr fBtr
t.anil @sts ud .o E haw to l@k rt dber syr of f:wfd&g tau lor 6c
lEoplc b{t ettllq for e lcrcer .t!rd!d I thlnl L!al, to IrE t !ft p$hr.
tn loklrg !t rct ot tb hral llct of *lt tt. .t!ff h.! grrereE trm, tEuld lthe to .Ge ur 90 to, I donrt brrr, I f/2 Elb. lilt 1 Ul Cq, lr D-tilhrt I d.rrtt thlnk E lhould titr'I of n-Urr !. ttlrErart Fdfd&rgr. t t,llrt rrlpuld loh at zmlrg thlt !r Ur &'15. '!h!t Daplc ratD Ert that ror riullt
core ln sd tell ue lDe rd *ry tfry rcGat lt !d tfut glva u Er. ontrol. tthinl th.t rfierc tlryrrc rct bulllllrg .trtffi Dulldfian, I W Lt I tesrablcttlrdlrd rd ,ryrtErc tl-rytfc talllg &oirt 2 tetlllr, quailr torrtrmr Ertlufld t6k !t 2. trd 1l thry thlnt grglo srtt rffotit tt t, th- ti.g -ranldqrc bacls to th. Ctty !d ee by n or blp Ut r. rff al lt. Ot mot!:r lt8lr
l" lS a co.{EelEr.lv! FrItE osdlrrr, t.r dlrapolnd tbE lrllrt rytblnln hte or &3rcarc. $ilr't lDu got rrTlthftg ot drycaro?
tlrl Elura! Cbr'rftur Bqt, ln & ttlt ltE ftco.lolld r atDd.ld lc daSrrrrcD.t il cn rrvlg,t fr0& otlEr daSa:c clrterr llil aa otha eltlr rd trlrgotttt B. lnfmrtlor Urt cr otplld lg, rEr rtetf. lttry calld . rtrrb.E ofcorr.rllttcr to g€t torrc rEant 6!tr. lf I so !!ql!std to ghn I atardard,tlt .tant dl rcutd jrdably b. t .tall tc ancy 5 ctrtl&gr ol OortEn epcfh|.tt Esrls to plree tt rtglrt abost rtthtn ttr ntlMc of ttr FcI dcfirnttr:ar brpn ttgun orrt tlD mrDor of rtdb tlrrt roild b. rrqrUrO.
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6uct&gr Dolts-. hlt c Dar-trbt &,r drob, rctall rtco, rblplrqffi:: ffi;flrffiS: #"8'n f:HaxHH; lFli=.,-,d ti.t tlte odtu* dDufit b Gld.at o trfrde-tfoa.--ttEth.r-n,l I In 6,I tn 19. t d6rrr bu, brt - aturtd un rt G thto. & tor w nrtl rt lti.t r Erc of ttn omtt tbt 2 rtallr tr a p[ft-t".-"r{r,;i ili r o"rra* | tA. r u,rnt !c rrt-orb. tt A,rrd-'t" Z. r tUnt riiti iUrU edlrrtd to FlsiE l:blr l.16 tddrE.
orrlrnsr dnlcrr rn1* cornt_ b lqrat e_tot-oc tirryl tbt hrn rrnadlrH.::iGu,:,ffirg*m;*ffi&..r!d tb ughtlng rd tb.t rlu b aan-e-crrc rc c.r r.err. -rlti"t,a"t
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tuc!,tmrgr DLr,lcr: lb ltgtrtlng ulU D. llrr qr a oa try or bel*
tul t&!urt3 tt dll hc avhrd dtb t p rlb Dl,l, !i!!.
- Q,Ctlrrrl lolts BIt tbro l. r G.rtt sd &E *'fUE .
&rcllsosn Dhrlc8 ' tbrh, r l'lt ratlrd tbt Dut r Er aa tu .t -trr.r: Ugltlng of t E lot.
tul &ar8r: fdlglr|ry 6E Eratty, sr,gh.
6r!Elr'r'' Drnlcr: 11 tba r at,drd 6asa tbt - crr go g.attc rtan?Ur .ltat lur diortt ttd or.
Eul E!ur3! t dl&rrt flrd e e,tntun rtrdarat fu crllte ftt tsfioffi flffi ' ?"8H,}IT"t?"gH#'it#..m fiff*u uu
ffilfmT": IHffi"H;gmeffi Hii.'L, -to orr cor5ndrartvr ph
hil E rr'! e," . E:b..t cu trQod to rlr qdo ,8e r€ ltrt }lG r3
&&sil,?ii!_:Lrffi .:8,#*ffi ffi**f f ffi,.Ee.- rtrt ruG b alGndtr-.t-.at n tt.r totti it r S oit-tfr Uosdrarglec Elm ato.a't deth-Dtng ctrtrfclllt rdAE;-c#itrer of
5"**t il'trHtr.3,f;:, i::HS a:,"r, gffifffi:!fT-, l* cotld ablt'l tt* ttrtdct r-tirt h&[& tht could b dptd.
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iffit;1t drori.r lorr *r lr a ,Dr. rt,i Un Utg-lt fr ;U-frs,y l:opr.
Cbrsllnwr Dtnlc: t $Ea rry bslc orlrrlqr rr aft€r elr ritr rr-arcrrE! F8 Er da!, I do ltL tt rt!ff^s.[,oEt rd I ab Ert Go corEr.tullteBtl tu tb nrk brr dor. I qEe durtb f.5 rd ;riu- t -j-- L
ll.!'r Qlalell- -Dr lotrtq oG luE rsrrdattorr ltnl, .rd t Dd ErcdIt68lIoE tblr r8Erur, t gqr I ito go rlog 6tI, rff tb rtalflecrq:nlatlol3. I tbl'r} btr-Ft! e bt 5f trti.-rnb t:hr. d rt ur grcn trne*ll rc ryctsattLs to avfer rU to .'rlcr].rd tully tbt ft.;.boot.
F-!E_ tD:! goflS d br!.rg rqletltlol of rvqritrg Urat tir fr, rafa, r OllE UE 1(b. Urlt 16 rlrit8 rr nll. sr Ec thtrBr tfut r bvc b rsr atD dih th* t srld grt.ttatn. dlqr b.Ed *ra[ r tt srriarrl eiqrr1:rvtol EtfnE rd to dopt. t rIEr rea
Gtdflan Dog: |tsll trll rffi u!tst rl rreat ltt - trrldc de3cuc rldE pt ttE lttanlud as t prltng gfa pr 6 tutncc.
olrltnrgr D{nil,cr; f bve. qlt ttaL t ttrL tfu glo tD & ttrt? tlhrr:r rdtl-trdly.
Erdbgl blt,s ttll, : ibltrc .lrcr:&frE &cr cbcdrr b bdffnE rllclr.
ItD( ChJcl3 tt gBs &o$ ttr Jolr baU of Er.
. GtEttrrlr lo!t3 lEG r4r b e tr,ttt.C rilcb n cor bact rd Gaat t,ltntrbcr bt, Gtre rD rcrc oll tEt lf - alttG.t ttrtf to go badr od lrrtrrn IlqDEt rE.r rd do lt.
tqDE Cb,tel! I tor 5. ttrr actlrlrrg gur lrrp prrlrttrg Elll, JdI uderrtrd thrt. EnG ray lllcr 4r dan.
&rEtlrtgr Sllgrs Ell lt rhorld b (Ldrd.
!!PT qid! lear-t rgrre. - t ttru!, .9EG...6 H ltn rrcrdclrg 6!t ur rtghtrlrE l^'. Ir r rrlc of tluDl u 1ur rrttodr I Fr 6.
!4 F"=: tE: !t!toE!^lf ltt. cn thl-r! t&-yur srd 6 .ct at trtc, t tbbrrt Ut abt! rd I cilld F.l!tc_Eq! lnfosttor & !E.ql ht. tEsaplcr-I ran^tf F! rurt n'rtd to r rihtt E[ oG itrc'tr$rfrrurtr uo.Envlllc E" r pn 6 plur ! nrdrdt tu trr[u prrrng-r tbt Ht.lt b.E .tlr-rcgulrlent. Brru q I rpc !c bcrra ri r r1ic !o8 29 GiluED.?t . trrrltgr arc taltly tabor lntorrtvr o &rerr r lot oftra&tr swreEc. l!.ro-ulur 3a hvc !t blred ai aEilqD! tttr nttrG EEb b AlcaEu- lur dorrt bve I goodl bardlr o tht. frd rll tb trt 5f U -cdttuu ro bard or 4raro lot ge: li'E, Zn qurrc ft tr-fnfro oIt gra or gd or. lt a.tt r tot of altfurt rrlp:to s{[b lt. - -
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etdlrtan ildrrror:hrr rur?
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hul Ea,.s! t brve tnfm4- - qr of futr. !r rrgt st tblt E r,Etord E trrr tIE rrryulq-ry, tt'r tei cura..,_c.eac$ t"fr i 1-n t1urldl rrqulrc l7 dalt . tt'r 16 d-. d..t6. tny hdlt lt dth 16 to ltr.Fcte' dotc.
Orclltm .bbucns !&!tr3 l gDd atrrtlrB ptnt.
liyct Gtrtlel: t tEr 6. t &nrt rt !!, pr6lrr, rtti thtt.
&lrlhan Jotrr.cn: t j:s. ranldnrt Ert to gD ,tg, lG tbn tttt.
liyr Ctrtlcls .lb.
6rct&ran Do!t! Oc.y, lt ttcre . -oa!?t' &urltm'sr Ddrrnl.cr: lrc lur gotrg to tr.'d tt Crurt?
-. o*than Eqats Elt trd lrh. to rtrd of t*. cuc of tt t qr bcau- rt rtlr: $;nrl.#rl.Ti# ttrr E sr ac.i Atb u, nnrar rrai.- nE c..r
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cbrrtrmn Egt: rrd t rorld rEEoG ortlu r.t.t !d tt t tr tt.ttoltlural doublelr ?.d. hr.-2 ;dod -j;.Ut.
ttlr Or.tdr lbrrrhor..r ltotl.! a Ctd..
Cl'Ettr.n Eolts tt r (b, tlt!. rrilcr StrdtanL.
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OllEttrrn EBts ErY. .T.qy lnltt t rtt .trt!. h hur titl...
ttyDr ctc.r.rs E bu. ttrr or't141. I hlr tt hr. rry dtru.rsr? Ba\fthrry?
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5. I q:t ti&tr rqDo{yre Dolldtrg I &rDlo 116 Il$!'be ltct lt.
&rctlsgr Dbrl.8: h 61rg ailrclrr deG'. G6d.
tyrr Ctrlels ltr ru.t frylrg to r lt c or bep tC .ltE !c r dnrtc or!D.
dlii D!t3_ trrttr rDt fug.t ttlt E l4rtn.u drytc tntty bE tobrn t.o rffi rGlod F'lirg F. oie oC t !-1n n 6 tft fitroe lrn ln rdraca.- ot of h. D'gr i oo-ri rr-uagE--e ror tattryf. bE r rd 6c ttG.g. 4a. llrl! tr r crr tn 6t i tf utt tnFg!-rlu rtl'ort ti!t. tDelf E Lt tq,L dttr torrtnr, dor$f- c-Euashlld 1, Erao4,,r gplrE b & lt.
Oscffqgr Dtrl.tr t.nlt tulta mrrrdattm t.!a
Or'ttIEr Bet! ttgtt. t.r 4rlrg, rattsvc c..t th if'ltEi.tr Gtththe urbt Erts 2 c rEt, a-ott3ir gorrg b htrd r.sr ti.n ttLt irca-&veloper c lntrrestd ln gtcIly tnrntrE onr tbtr lhpfqrrgrtr. -i am'tblar th 6G tirt trt €rttr a uttrr dlliorcnt tnt rc.t taai n oora-ure&f the tdg srrr.EtEo.dr to tb Ctty.
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erdtE! .sEu tf ga hlld e dqle c gFrF lble rt ttb +rr lntib mrlct, lt fr$fy El&rrt r[1.
ilct tlcrqe b'n dgE.
OttcllEr S!..ns !!E EEL b vqr tn grqful &t lEoll b r rry rrdlrtlrt lottqg !c ttrt.
tlct tllIrly: lrd & !E!or Er r.Et lal ptnu b rslL8 I!,.
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ol'cthsr hrhms &, ttrr 1l[1.
bcttrsr Eqts tm {:Eyrtr O.[.E.O fu rtmgr 4n.
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tq,,t^ f! ln tn Ee .rd thlt otlrr esr fabcqr&t
Iot b.i._'rtt ;I;df. b:a,'! qT - -ro..3.t P.ffijt*r;rr$i.Davr Co lb dth orr illrcurlsri Ottx ttrn-tt :t Uf Uvr or-crr.-E-orr otthn bs e ntcr btg Ur.llrc. foOfo fffr Or ipo to. -.
ffi 'E?"Hr::'##i.",i.ilHft g'gggg.;y"
6orrg 5ps, lt 6amtt -qt b tirc i.en ffrai -Uatri#'€[,*ti,*ffi H;#fl;#;IrF*b: cr?8r Grerttrrr4g rrt oc. rrt. r bdi ot. rtOt LEtiiii.iglrGrery abt, Ed ,Egerist re:rcd nmlprg id Fsle.-fi-uarEiiri-il= to
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ttrei Ful&rrt b. liltd..rd tt to r-drft& Alt
rttagtr rt L.rt tD orEol poph
thrt b lsur thgrtvr oclord gangr
ht E.vrry tfgt
thy an ib got 2
ot ln ttL qlrr. Or EDr
Ctty OsEll lGetlrq - &rrlty 8, llpg
'fb FrI rd rlt lb Gus. H brtr rd eurrgthfq.tE. .Ilan tln ws tntoft qu&, rDt a @ ln dSlt. tt lr nto. tt lr a lEEy.
OrEllnrsr lHnlcr: t gras I hvc a lnlnt of cdcr brc. Errc dllrcrsalngrettttg tbt c hgrrt sdd od tr& getttrE roal srttrtd be.
ttpr CLrdcl: tt!E. ttll utt tc r rod. E bd . tEtlm cr ttr flor ts,Etll. t grE s tb iltrteclo b a ttat eTtr:Dory lIlly bu! ant Errcf!*fng &out Ere. lbtrt l.ul ttr oEalnlnE dbcrrglqr.
@rtlnwr Ddrrlc: t udantpd ti.t sd tD.trr l&r h,.
tllyr CIr.l'els E ht r totlqr crr tb tlc !ry DiU t8tcb lor rtydaritr of
tol.r Eraa, alo&la rd qtd3. t!.h of hr hra 2 crr glrger. L lfuc a
-coa!? Err. rDt bvt4g tt lcrdd. tt dL! lfl.
CrEtt,sr.Dbeu ltll rgut @b rltt 2 crr iErrgr.s. llt abrbL..
&rEllrqan blts &ttt th!t?
orctlr€n,hlrn3dr: B$lcl. Ert tDt tot.riar.t 11! $!dt.
erEtlrtAn b:t: ht'r tb dtlfferra r.tzt 3ou tcd tE abttnttqr?
liSor Ch'del: Eab. Di t!ll1'!9 lfu 2 crr g.r.gG !. to t L/2 talch Et b
GEIGcd, r&.tr3 tb dUrgntm? D{ffssa bctncn AE n 2 6 L Vn
Eul E!Es! lt t E lr*gdd td t!& tEt tre, tb dttrap itgbt md Ittttle blt of rodtftcattor tlEe. lGrt : lnHd rt lrr.t ll lt rr t I Wrtadaro, $.t UEy rot brl&! 18 f@t rt& gu4cl 6lcb ur t 1,/2 oat. ddc brttlut roc of ttp, h. 1@ ad rqrc ol tlrt bw 2 or. E pr6$1y b.rr. to
.aE ! ltn ln ttEre tbt rD Frtbf g.rrgc3 ElrLl b. epta to Et ttr
ttadual.
Eurllrtsn.ffirson! llstrl elr a j:< h e ltrfhltlol. Ifdcr O.lllng,h trttly Jrt ttlr.Dore ln tt rtodad lt -llr lt e lh$le.
ttlrrr Ch.lel! *rat c go trercrclg Qa
OrIEIIT€,I Jotnrdrs EII bro .'t lEr 5. Err got (bl, tortanr, 6lr ld
Eadr. tldar tnc ibflnlttsu Drlor, b &crrt &fln fhnfr
Errl lreus: t6* rbrld b dlgr! b h-tGttt ., b llrtlntlsr.
Curtfirr &arl.ons C db6l.. ab,l blfl. Or a lb &. t bor Gt 1orur, ltrr rrrt atltrrt qrdb c[fd.
Iilu ftd.Ir :&!trr bt!, sltt tt too. afq,.
6Gttl'sr Etts *ll I Erll st lnl!, ry 4poct 2 uEaee t rr g.t tbb.o lf !urr!. -crfy dUtry b t:wfd. lt tn lhtlo, r!fr.4 Ftlor rd irll..ood tt b$ I tht{E, t gr lrll cmtlm b tilr* .rd b tb olly or lbtgli.t, ln tlrtr regd !!'c!,, fut !n tilr uo lqrL rrat. 2 s gETr.
tt
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be{lran td,lrcnl t:-!r.-.^. t* of jrplc. t Ert b !!t t,te gtrrlpfffi g"I3"HX',ttffi:'i; ffitS:"dittr ol gEop U'.t r-auy crfy n d8 . I car gagqc, .rd-trr,l, tfri-o., _.ryry, lf trry-crn eqr.d-igtd l^g..rg". -rt-vo[ roii'rIup-&ffit ,gEorE, of..8q,1? rylde8 ur rfiufy enl Up,rd!t.dt tist-.8o-rn.FrEtr .r. tie noly nftord ratu uai. ttr.^rl.o .+ ib't rt sorrrEq'st of c eber tt t tr hrfro. &tgf.tlfy brL.t
&lrtlrrsi Eqts Ert Chro ro rS btE Eyr to trwl& ha. &E ftr. OErto.ud E-oq.v b EE tn ra DqUd r rfnfrii hffillgE FE fr, i,r.
fElban Suon: O! rr gc.ge-f! tDt, tn tr IEEUit Lntplrg. th golryac{r,r1?]ll_ftot Daol tr-rpt-nlntrnt.' *ntrf-fr ro gcfoli. orS;::1..!rt.if? rrlrnrlvr rd ab.r rrtc tb ot ol frr: --rn-rtiU rctilHri:t"TIf;XL%E?::r?'H'llT .tsuoru at ur b rrsr.
.,da'd F"n'E +iI]i e"r's-t"--ri-ii A1tffiilt tHi *
trE H':ri:E:$ 3fiEj[:.r5g:,nF,T *ffiflf ,tittrr orgt rcr efford&lo. Etn bfng Gclrrri; Dl,.; -
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qrr+I$n_Eqt: t[r trar lDrt t.b or tln !n tb hUdfEg. ttrr 6tftrd.rat of ltvlng ab t:lt+'bjg. ratr gr!,r11 t;s..
H'l,.r .rdrr-rs ttrr !r bar of btb. rf !E clrtt rtfd b ll* tt e.Brt ngn!,.
'tryr GrJ.ls OE!'. t Eud lrb to -t Etrrn lptb rtlsr. tr ogn rr4rfr or? E lld to ab ErtbtrE.
dt im &brron: trat ltr. to Ee. tlt r-t ot t{r odrruc dtb ticffiff|*.ffi&##'mr*g**tfu.Dr ahn to rut or erctLn b.sgnr.bot.- nfa sr 1xogEt !.
tlyu Oldtlt 0b!,, lct.. go bcf to dr tDrtEr.!, &rtler ad l-{tr rU trllmb r rotlor to harlr trr toratmr, &$hl -a tJ itt"lfr-rfE-i iA,U.AEt b gelo-l!.
Ourllstgr Ddrr.lar ttU Ed tiat.
tuElrrur Elts E, tirtrr rrth tlr lnErtror r,lt llb- b hlrt rrth , rr!,qb cu c llorbte clt giaraF GsEG?
bElllgl ibbrorr ItSt. E $.ttrr tE gf,.
Iryc Cla.ldr I l,/2 rrr tt Etd b re lbt L
bElllur hrhar b r brc. ttlnrrrtor or rht r I Vl grnrg[ tr?
.hu Eru.rs D. r Drwrrt eltebl.lff lLt.
6orth.n !o!ts f rt.rd.Elt ih$lo tr 2l t t d6..
.CtE 6Et1 Eetltrg : eilrry S; t99S
!r
Ctty clrdf l+etirg - eul.ry 8, l99g
orcllra frhrJrs & nrrc trlklrE ,t 18?
cluEth-r &lnrcn: Z!.
CbrEthakhrats fuaIl,/2?
or'rtli,t .Dlruon: tou rorldttt lulld e I l./2. bltd tulld, qr l'rlt crll!hvc a oe Entt.rd d€ rnlt *dd bve 2 to glrr 1ur 3 ftr {lre 2. ol a &ubIc,t don't thlnt t ,nnhr5 a lot of rrue gr-affy. Or ltr tonntas aa! €Ed., I thtr* tlE I W rahea rdr. Etr rc yor hirlc a vartcQ,. lbq c& &k lt!P. h oan tnlld! a hlliltng tlllt tts btn &rblcr rd rtnglc or gurgGs. Slf rrrtoQr, thery can Dane a dple.
liyu Chlcl: t'r rDt ra$rg I -? g qr- lor g-itr. t.r r$ng fi.t I l/2.
Ectlgrlkhrsu &.r tt lr gursr?
tilor CL.del.: fs sbff lccorrtsdltlm bastcaffy l!r.
Grrcthfi EEh'rrl! Itsr *tat abct rrltt-trttfr
Itgor Cirlels frltt-tr,l,llr, tD t*. slll&atlm of til t5 r,rltt lrr.t ELllrd &out. Efflclcrryr I bd:ot Erttr, 2 rtallr - t of 6tdr rr.t brrclcd. ttD Hr€ra ndl largcr Edtr, 2 rtallr - | Vl of 6tdr rrt !esclosd ard tbtr regulrrnt to be Ertrsad qr a grd hdr !c db Grt&e
Forcct
etrlhm brhrprs 80 .r lt r.dg?
qrElli,l &Eranr Uttr lrrur rtlsr b go O) rd (c) .t & !rr. tlli. tbr?
E3u Chtcf: rtght. G) rd (c) dlt ttr I !d 2. D hE e rrGlor.
ErrllEal dnlsr t 6td Ed tbt oE.
tuEtlgr Uts t l:htrlt tt rqa lt ya ortt gt dlr rrd6rtb, lbr 5ncrr, cr rrdrttctrdly lt Errt cl, tbr lul crr tp E tqn dlttod-G
htrld&rt.
tryr chbls hrltlg qttrL., dtE.
Otlctb.n blts Ot potnt of dtrurto htcr n go ot. t ttt* or of, tlprcst signlflcrnt thlrya abant tb cdtnga drnge tr th.t t'lc prltrq br O bi'rttatr lnil Ultrs c.st tnly e rwr fsnd. ltr! rry tnt rttor to yob rgelnrtIt.
tlr thrtds I darrt.- 4fifry or hr ltlt &.. ray a-lttcally ettrfi.
OscttlJr Eqtt th lt tl.
fuEthm J&lldls Ert du.rr '.lotb lEC rn bra tilt rap rEt, sU!,att ff bt t Dcllr[ lt'r udrqtold !c srlt!, sr Br 2a ullta? -
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FL' t ^rrc..r' aE L.r.l, - 9.la!5 J ct l;rr0
bcttlln Bqt: lrt t .!,r!, tblttr cl.lrly-lrr r-lt!, tn t tErld DtlclIEtGEfd ,!grcir. tt'. vela ol tb {trhrrt. idsr't tbhl rrn ablrlt ]Dqh.'
H J&r.srs th rtlu b! ts tb rrlttgler.- &drn fur gur do. rrltlple
FgCE!, pu lavc to haw . I to I orrqc, 6td I c.rr r rital. btb.r' -
ttrr 15 Enlts c 3l! c uc, tsure rchitic6uaUi iiaan;t st gra-jiyou
9o q.r-to Car-Jc Rldge. F of b btggclt F6fG5 tE7.E H dtb ttr t'Frtlgullr FoJe!, Gl+ F! bt.!trl, c r-ut qra flr b.r 15 gntt Iribtached_garages_tn e Brlu-gL bsu- hy'n to trr to Elt. ni a.oaaag.l:g€s desrrt &-,r1t.god. t!r. ,l't rr-dd t'lfng tt t rfi!. th pot,rt
-loi,-go-rrord gil €fn rrqru. rqr rr nge DGo#t td., ! rbr itdr -
E t_tlrd of tad, ortrr -rim -tt-q. -'r 96r ad ba;-aLa.f--Fojetpqr{ 3lr.f anrrclFte a*oe bufld&ga .r*r. !ry d}ea, gc Foricd bdayrn brsh rt'sltyryurttprc erctse c r&o. Esd!ry aE--tfiufia'd b bve.ote &t cH onltr crr rlibl t Jurt, orrt, lrit rur-crn go bxt b ;E.5.tttEtr,-tt Jrrr- urlih't l@! sGy gdd. tEr. Grrr-D.Eo-toEtrcrnr *prtlqr ue rd-rtE rltto!_Jrrlt gol.t cf: tt r8t, ...Eul bld ot;;.y!!.gcq.rEi.rr irrurrE b 99, co LeB, rquare t E d Edt aat pu r-i'&.t ""tcqe-9r&-'r t-trrcr'3e-- lrhrr r..'u l'rrtr gG er ir4gror. rrEc f iirtctrira-_
!d- 2!-dG+!s. tt ,'!t &|n.t ElL. i aU t ianr Arci Ust ,l-61d.E&ably rltb^rorc of rF raa .lddGs. tt Jult dcar't Ek-f;tbqrtlr€rt poJgc!-. qi rt-Eln b qrer E l,lttr.- hyb. @trft. trtrr *:n tt|a,crn do ul!t, thltrr rlne bt l-donrt- tblnt- 5[ orf to co
'ort-ts,n e 'rr
-a3t
. lot of hrd tn bsl b.. tt& ttutr€ Oout f . nttor,tifryU f.EO, *; -
day roAoQlt 9o!.4 to oe {clE .rd LE' tn t rd lrrt r lfg-Droflct i" tUr*rich_s.rld F qoott thc-o,.rrrtty. _Aultr e fot o! br-:- it;i gofrg O U. very dlffl$[t fc btn b-+r. -lbrr ra:! gh !!.]r, lt-tb-E:r-Fl'ii got to Frtln ro'cp!.e qt ttrr. d Uln &t Eif; ,a-ri tt* go to e.[ -tl.r,,-d
.aEttlad 25 &t dnd g!r.ge.. br c.nrt ge rrddjrb-ilin.; --" -'
Irlor Ct!.lcl! t &ntt ya^E{-. t tLtrt-lurl !Elog!, & Arr bt ln trttlng,,ry lyl llq In ut.lrrut rr. tr-rrntlebtllq of e gliar -U b pufb rnte!u!, lovd to hvc. gEl.ge aa&! e urft&dD 5 ri-al&r't rrrE go ortthre ld &ovd ott lfu rrr.
Srlil Jdnran: Brt dtd thsi D!v. tt odocnt:b?
Ilryor Ghdrlr 5, ti.!' dllorrt bvt ry rrrlcnath .lfrr.
Drd &[rrrsr: ltsU, t rc nld bnf, lLt sdrrrr*n.
It-!E ctrt ls t bDrr. n rcdl bvr ttu sdarrl;h Gtcb lr tlrr rg tbrtrrrtr I.r...
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Erit .,&ran: trt lurtt dtry rc br &t. .
liyr Clel.ll -Dt lt tn Ur .trtrG tbt tE hr 2 s ld lur or.t cr
119_tf Auurrratuf.Ir.,d b* p trrt tt rer*rro rS E--rrtd- LEr-l-tD*r. rt rcEr .r bd auts gurg. ln c dJart htk r u-o oi rsh, c 3g c W. Dll b!r.
Erlt Jotaros ttrr rrclrltrctrdty i l'urlt. t!-r lmrtr tnto arf,tlr tll.tlt1lt^l:$-yS, cT9: F nmryo-hucrryr. nrr-mrEd b.tulrE j-E hrr Erd t lrr! Durng cff .ll, !r a-tally trrt tJr garrgir U ill.li a f{ig.n
!:,
CtE,cbrrEll l€etirE -.Eoary S; f99S
ocb ad ronally tlE ErErtE d('lrt tlb UErt all. llsert aln;p y.c.arrlec !}dtlre gq,le that Elt 2 can have tlEr. !D.tr3 Just tfE ny lt rcrhs. Irr. Juataldng, gou drould thtnk tllat tiroqh Dsule pu ,ugt Euld rDt htve very goodtlottrg bolltltrgs. trat ss a1l. Bccaure I clnrt fird uq, archlte.t Uut.r:r8
ftey oufd destgn Etethlrg llb tbt tlcy rorld Glel csrrforr.hle rltb. tDati Ie tfrt gorr bave to h re.
(lrrEtrrat Johnsdl: Brt tlreyrlG &tng lt !n Etina.
&d Jotnsons Ib tielrt r. rDt. ln EttE theyrre rcqulrlqt, to ab lt lD[r hte totdld lr,g rguare fot .FrEsrts.
.brrtlem .rotnsdr: Ieah, I Bs ,u.t caldilattrg th.t out.
E d Johr€drs frd they dbntt Ert.
Oucllrrsr JotnBon: L Vl an E BrId ctd p.
Ed .rotn8or s It Ju€t desrtt ErI .D!r. brtd bvt Eo blg of a qlrtsrsrt
htldtrg.
cErllrrgr Jolrrsqr: Iab. ldrtd harp b ad qr vtth u'ctlrtng llk lrlg0
rguarc fcet, for cadr r!,arhr€r1t tn oEd€r to get f lZl parktry qpt3 ud.E|Eath.
Eid Jotsrsur: tf 3ou go oeer rd Eo ln, tl:yrre rcqtcil ln ovrr brc !tllrlt4e, tlrytre blg at I to 1. tf that t.rD odd bc hardld ln a *;:rate
srfrrg flte rcr'.eirs brrdfed because I thlnl th.tr8 . crlttctl lrsn lor
cEqeory.
ia,.rotnsor: tly rE€ L Ean &hrqr. or qutct ltsrr sr lrE quturtg. llrn
lprr'get oeEE, L.egg rquarc loot tlE ost cfiangeg coutihrably bsu.c ol t'he Elre
Oode. OE€ :roucdes t}tlt cqre
get
lnto
ot€4 Lrggg rquare foo,t.1 tlcrera . lot of illffetcnt tlrcplal,. A lot of dlffarcrt rheetrettlg. O€ hrr ntlngs113. AU ttrle otlEr tlpes of .tuff & tt &e3 dfcct t,r affcdrbtlttry orcr
!r9e0 eqrure fod rtlldr .Ealn rclrte. badr to 16lt lDu sr Frt dl...
tilDr Ctrdel s Iour rG sayrng ti.t tlEet. Les ttrtng€nt lcguls.rats tn rrder
lreee sgrare fet !s opoaait to orrE. ltE, tt tIEt?
f.n &fnscn: t trt, rcally tDt qult Ec. I ,E t lsEg tllt EE of t.hoe nrLr
Tply thlt th.y ta]I rbrt allff.rcnt t$ts ot dlffrrcnt ttfrg..
Qu Chtel: t FuLt lthe to -e ttat .r!! tlrd of pot*ttor gtvn b r11poplc llvtry ln all ]ln!s of butldtqr rh&er tJry b geg or W G, l,rgm.
fm ardru.n3 r $E I Brlil ,erglrE tbt tlE crFrtl 3ur bor Ur.t l6t thl.,tb ftre IEople thrt l@I !t thlr, uder.tad ttrlt tlt sy tlro .trGd rd lrrrunt of area that tfrey r'elit to .prc.al ttrto td ttrt gra tn goas tn b
etemtntng r*lat $orld b atte !c certatn qure ftotagcr. t EUL! hs. tDUrtrl ti.t {i.ttr pr&.bly alreaQ' tah.n ,nto UEtr ftr. ode. I Fuld hrc tothfnl tlE!, gobablv ttrorglt thro€b all ttDe F$lGr ryd detratlnd tht
b€crue of le3ser foot ge Ed rEre car{rcbtls tbt Ut rro Ult tt b.t btr'r-r hto ud EE rront of qnce tlut tt c,l brEl bclcc tlr4rt xr $to to gGt
to tt b Irrt lt @t, har tdrcr.llrt to ib rtti 6rt thg regukc for flt. dr.
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bEtlean Bo!t: . r rculdt rlke.b try to r*at 3o.r rrctron. trrat all anlrgdiatrlcts,.R-{, R-8, R-12 requlre . itntnrrloi .,nriJtr,' ri iL!; iLiiia- u,r fr;-l-fi ;il ;i.: K.tlffi,,trgT i'Xi"S4E out of tlle 2. t Uttr*.tbt etr, lf thri'r " .econi-b itl-tL-r*r_ rrrld Fopoe tt ts t Utlnl f! Gq Oi gro,rU rcrI 0en for yr R-16 to carc Inlrd E can 10k at ! 1 0r l rlts5trgl. ioi e,.e a"irs li-bg-;;;-.iir.n u,"r,!l iieUlngs.
ttqr ChrJel s fr a &trnl!.y turt!.nt?
M.IE|a l Dlrtler: E 1ur r^e1t tt?
hllrtan ltcrhtan: I Esd it.
Q'u Grdel: -ltLt !,outte :Sry, lct E rrd€rstard rltt 3ourrc raylng. ttr lrrn-a, an R-8 lnr ! 12 to be I r/z-r*rrar rurrt be cr.losd. ii tr.tT.iro.,..&y1rE?
-urrban blts rrd u,tt. brsrcdry the anlng gl".rlcts e rrve dry ht
I!ij.!s"t-.T;.gq*f ,rdH'i;TF#.t.*ilttr*uffiFrtitg fG that brt 1ti3 golrg to li,rc toE-routrrfrg .iirGfi?[t-O"DrrtirE.
hyor GIdel: okay. I rculd EoEt ti.t.
olralltran Dlrr.lcr: tf !'or acoGpt tnat ftterdl3r trdrarrt, trll g.on! tlratfrlerrtly a€rdrs.lt.
Otlrilran Johnsm ! R-15. IGrre klrd of raylnE re'rc aotnS to a R-15. lt.ne'becn trylrg to ralntain tbe gneen .Irae-lrd lv;-..rcrrua is.- r lot of ttre,ar*s_e,ti roH'9-.r,f:t:Ui*i;t.H # ,
B-15'r golrg to go ln thh tom.
&rcllrran ncrhrrn: ltsrd b.!re bettct grtrol.
&rrilran Jot rsol: r Fuld thtnk prqlc F.rat b '.uhrrE h ko to cb.r,ge .'tjDlt n-12r3 to l6.s rlght rsy.
&lcllrtrzr Bgt,: :hrt da''rt nn rtlt E ra &rrt mtntltn ts! EE rurrt ofgra€n rlE.
Urlu Or&l I &, tihltrr tra.
cb,lEr.lFrn Bqts tt rtr,{,Iy dcab rlur El Act t
ffi .ffi r:#*'m*F#ffi #re,#Ltiia
€brellran IsElorsis Ir lldr r pfam&rg &rrdlator gstt r?
6,rctl'an-Jotrrsan! r thrntr !! n rG I'. !.r!r. lrb.rGrr gorr€ b b . lot rwrcmsltbratlqt befqe n Jrr.p lnto...-
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ClEi O.rrtl Eettqg - Jlmluy Ai fggg
f:'or q:iel: tetrs Just thror tiat n-t6 bck to BE pr.nntng &rrttecr... r.ttlst rerla lt ard cate re sith Ere recqn€rdatlans.
cbt tifrrgr Jolnson: ttEt frt€nnu, r€drstt ttnit of srre golng b a1R-16 tbth.
&qrllEsr Dlrrler: Ert E dlm.t bve to.
oncllrur .rdrEons ltsll rti. sgtE !o vota qalnst lt bc.ue r thtnk L l/2 rs.tlU too rri or !n ip? tsl€nt-h!. faUg. f,itfr orr orrrGnt lorlrq, the eo;atcnr lDr c"n gEt, to butld -. .IErh.nt bulldtrg li R-12 ro e aii raylrr to
Prfld - IErtr.nt b:tlaling q have to hve f f,fZ *rtctr rean3 Errc got"6 Ohave atta# lrd ab'llctted udergrorrit Frktrg ior or ad nrre qotfo 6 uvebdf 4aln as nrrh abore groud prklrg. ea.i *reas at b=k to irt irilr qrcln aleo- m. there, ntridt fg gofrS to trrreae lurr lftgEavlous tlribc"'"rdcver}ttrlrg.
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38
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEN
P.C. DATE s Feb. 7,' isso.a
C.C. DATE: Feb. 26, 1990
CASE NO: 90-1 ZOA
Prepared by: Krauss/v Qb
STAFF REPORT
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PROPOSAI,:
LOCATION :
APPLICANT: city of Chanhassen
- ):'t-1o
Datr sr.; :. -liJ.-ifi
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:N-
s-
E-
w-
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAI, CEAR,AC. :
Zoning Ordinance Amendment to the BH, Highway and
Business District to Allow Banks with Drive-thru
Windows as a permitteil Use Ac&n by Ctry ldn*ntlaor
a,u=r" /bw*
iloi .
leftcr ''Dd*,: g t=?_o_
Dre s,;r:.:il[-]Sn
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
Zoning Ordinance Amendment
February 7, !990
Page 2
BH District
S UMMARY COMIUENTS
At the present time the Zoning Ordinance a11ows financial insti-tutions with drive-thru service as a permitted use in the BG,
General Business District. However, in the BH, Highway BusinessDistrict, financial institutions are permitted, but there are noprovisions for allowing drive-thru service. This anomoly rrashighlightecl during recent consideration of the bank proposalalong Market Boulevard and West 79th Street where the site isactually bisected by both the BH and BG ilistrict. Staff believesthis could be a oversight since the Highway Business District isspecifically designated to provide for highway oriented comner-cial development and it is reasonable to issume that a financialinstitution locating in this district would offer drive-thru ser-vice. Consequently, staff is proposing that Section 2O-7L2,Permitted Uses, No. 1, be revised from financial institutions tofinancial institutions, including drive-thru service.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommends
Zoning Ordinance
that the Planning Commission
Amendment as attsached.
approve the proposeal
ATTACHMENTS
1. Ordinance amend.ment.
ORDINANCE NO.
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
AN ORDINANCE AII{ENDING CHAPTER 20 OF THE
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE
SECTION 1. Article xxvll,Section 20-?!2, entitled "BH",
Permitteal Uses is hereby amendedHighway anal Business D istrict,
by aildi ng the following:
Section 20-712. Permitted Uses.
(20, Financial institutions with drive-thru servlce.
SECTION 2. Article xxv, Sectioo 2O-L724, off-street Palking
r,oaaTi!-5y-ading the f ollowing :
Section 2O-1L24, Required Number of On-site Parking Stalls:
6. c. R-16 District - Tlro stalLs l2l of which one must be
completely enclosed in a garage.
SECTIoN 3. This ordinance shall be effective immeiliately
upon-fEE-lEEEage and publication.
Adopted by the City Council of the City of Chanhassen this
day of ,1990.
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
By:
Donald J. Chmiel, Mayor
ATTEST :
Don Ashworth, City Manager
CITY OF
THINH[SSEN
P.C. DATE:
C.C. DATE:
CASE NO:
Prepared by:
Feb. 7i'1990 a
'?
Feb. 26, 1990
89-2 Site Plan
x,uo."n (lC-
STAFF REPORT
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Revised Site Plan Review for Country Hospitality
Su i tes
LOCATION: $lest 78th Street and Market Boulevard
APPLICANT: John Rice
630 Interchange Tower
Highway 12 at CR 18
Minneapolis, MN 55426
PROPOSAL:
David J. HemmingerEutt ConsuLtants, Inc.
2241 Roosevelt Road, Suite 2St. CLoud, MN 5630I
CBG and BG
3.1 Acres
iltl E Ciy EiitAlfr
tdo"rLJaDlX-PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DBNSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SEWER s
PEYSICAL CEARAC. !
2000 LAND USB PtANs
cdr:.r--_-
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o*-J.--3 o
Dd.e SlL;iria3l to qL?,:..lr,!Jl
o
CBD - Chanhassen Bank
CBD - Fillyrs
CBD - Chanhassen Dinner Theatre
BG - Vacant
Available to site.
Currently contains existing bui lding,
Eooked on Classics, AI1 State
Insurance, etc.
Commerc i a I
N-
s-
E-
w-
BACKGROUND
On April 24, 1989, the City Council gave final site Plan approval
for the construction of the Country Hospitality Suites Hotel .
Located at the intersection of west 78th street and Market
Boulevard, the proposal calleil for the construction of an 84-room
suite hotel which would have an accessory pool area. The
building was to be three stories high.
when the applicants reguested authorization for a building per-
mit, they discussed modifications to the proposetl building with
staff. Accorcling to the applicant, these modifications were
designed to reduce construction expenses while more closely
aligning the architecture with the franchise requirements. They
had originally proposed the following changes:
1. Deletion of cedar shake shingles on the roof sys tem.
mansard to a2. It{odif ication of the roof system from a false
high peaked roof with no detailing.
3. Deletion of canopy over the drive-thru at the main entrance.
removing approxi-Shortening of the building by 12 ft. by
mately that distance from the pool area.
5. other miscellaneous changes were discussed such as modifica-
tions to the exterior building materials, but these were
droppeil from consideration.
staff conclualed that the scope of these changes reent well beyoncl
anything sre were comfortable authorizing admini stratively. In
our opinion, they would have resulted in a building that nas not
consistent with the intent of the original site plan approval .
we therefore scheiluled a review of the revised plans before the
City Council at their December 72, L989, meeting. The City Council
agreed with staff's concerns regarding changes to the plan and
our opinion that an amended site plan approval was warranted.
They took the following actions:
1. The City Council authorized the urotlified roof-line which uses
a peak roof system in place of the mansard system. Based on
discussions with staff, the roof system had been given an
extensive amount of architectural detailing which in staff's
opinion made it consistent with the dowrtoetn dleveJ.opment
theme .
The City Council authorized the replacement of cedar shake
shingles rrith "Timberline" shingles. The heavy grade tim-berline shingle is to be used which gives the appearance of
cedar shakes from a distance. The applicants had indicated
4
2
Planning Commi s s ion
February 7, 1990
Page 2
PIanni ng
February
Page 3
Commission7, L990
that cedar shakes rrould not be appropriate due to buililing
coale restrictions on the revised roof system.
3. The Council insisted that the drive-uP canopy system be main-
tained or the Council refused to authorize the shortening of
the building by 12 feet. rn their findings, the council
indicated that if further changes were being requested by the
applicants that they could return through the Planning
Corunission for an amendeil site Plan approvaJ,. This current
request constitutes the applicantrs proposal for an ameniled
site plan approval.
since the City Council meeting, a building permit has been issued
for construction of the foundation and for portions of the
buililing for which architectural design issues have been
resolved. Ground has been broken on the structure.
DISCUSSION
Based upon the CiEy Councilrs actions relative to the proposetl
changes to the site p1an, there ale only a few remaining areas to
be iliscussed. The reviseil site plan approval was intendeil to be
the forum where the developer could propose any additional
changes Chat had not been reviewed by the Planning Commission
since design of the project appeareil to be in the state of flux-
As it turna out, there are no new building modifications being
proposed. Thus, the remaining issues which need to be cletermined
lre- the reviseil plans for the rnain entrance canopy, the deletion
of 12 ft. from the building pad, anil issues surrouniling the
landscaped courtyard located to the east of the building.
In our opinion, the question of providing the canopy at the main
entrance has been satisfactorily resolved. The architect was
able to prepare plans that allowed for a structurally supportable
canopy. At the city council meeting the appLicants indicated
that ahey were not sure this could be acconplished. The addi-
tional support is provided by the ailalition of two columns that
are in a centrally locaCed parking lot island around which traf-
fic can maneuver. The canopy is integrated into the roof system
and front elevation of the hotel in a reasonably attractive
manner. A second minor canopy located on the west side of the
building ove! a accessory entrance has also been retained.
Issues pertaining to the proposal to shorten the building by 12
feet remain unresolved. The city Council initially acted to
require the full-sized builtling as approved originally. The L2 fL.
that is proposed for deletion is located in the accessory
swimming- pool area and would not result in either itts deletion
or any lois in the number of visitor rooms. Staff views this
change as relatively minor from an aesthetic standpoint and does
Planning
February
Page 4
Commission7, 1990
not believe that it will be particularly visible. It results in the
movement of the eastern building wal] 12 ft. to the west. The
landscaping plans were revised to accommodate the additional openspace. Staff is recommeniling that the revised building footprintprint be approved.
The final and related factor concerns the courtyard. area located
around the south and eastern sides of the structure. Staff has
had concerns with this courtyard primarily related to the factthat much of it is located on an adjoining parcel. There arethree reasons for maintaining the courtyard. The first concernsthe fact that the sidewalk in the courtyard provides fire exitsfor the building. The second is that minimum building separa-tions are required to meet fire code antt building code regula-tions. Once buildings are closer than 25 ft., they must be builtto higher standards. The third reason is aesthetics in that thesite plan that was approveil by the City ill,ustrates a landscapedcourtyard in the area and we wish to preserve it. Staff has beenworking with the property owners to insure that a permanent ease-nent that involves the City and both properties protecting thisarea is filed with the county. The applicant has provided staffwith a revised detail of the courtyard area. It illust.rates anarea that would be 20 ft. 8 in. wide. Staff researched thematter and found that the courtyard that had been originally
approved in the plans $ras 30 feet wiile. We do not wish to see thefinal courtyard width dirninished past this point since to do sowould compronise the aesthetics although it would comply withbuilding and fire code requirements. Staff is proposing that thefinal courtyard dimensions and easement provide for a 30 footwide courtyard along the east side of the hotel building.
STAFF RECO}IMENDATION
Staff recommends thatHospitality Suites befollowing conditions 3
the amended
approved as
site plan for the Country
proposed subject to the
1 Provision of a satisfactory easement protecting courtyardareas located at the east and southeast sides of thebui1din9.
2
ATTACHMENTS
Letter fron Hutt Consultantss, Inc. dated January 23, 1990.
Proposed revisions.City CounciL minutes dated December 18, 1989.
Memo to HRA regarding project dated January L9, 1990.Original staff report and approved site p1an.
1
2
3
4
4
The minimum courtyard dimension located east of the hotel
sha11 be 30 feet.
HUTT trONEiULTANTS, INtr.
2241 Roosevelt Road, Suite 2, SL Cloud, MN 56301
-,
January 23r 1990
Mr. Pau I Krauss' CitY
CitY of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
P. O. Box 1tl7
Chanhassen 1 MN 5531 7
Planner
Re: CH Suites of Chanhassen
Cour t Yard
oear Mr. Krauss:
I have enclosed a revised Court Yard landscape plan per your
request from Our meeting on January 17t I990 to subrnit to thePlanning CornmisEion on February 6 and the City CounciI onFebruary 26t 1990. The revised plan uould only be requestedil the City agreed to the revised site plan and easernent.
If you require further infornationr please advise.
SincerelYr
O.TJ. HUTT CONSULTANTS t rNc.
oav id J.
Director
Hcmni nge r
of Proiect Ma nagernen t
cc: John Rice
..e4, yA.!,' Jnfl85
'gsJ@ofornrrrr^..r...
Commercial Construction - Consulting - Financial Assistance
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DATE: fA{.l,l1l LrrL Country Hospitulity Suites
Glrnnhossen, Minnesoto
Truman Howell Architects & Assoc., In'c. 620 Meudelssohn Ave. Suite l:l0 Mpls.. MN 55427 1612]| S4l-gTn _
-_73.
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PROJECT OESCRIPTION
COUNTNY }PSPITALITY SUITES
Chanha ssen r Mn.
The Country Hospitality SuiteB Hotel oil l be 84 rootrsfeaturing one-roon Oeni-Suites with queen size bedr ParlorSuites with king size bedr Executive Suites with k.in9 size
bed and spa r Luxury su i tes wi th king si ze bed and a largespa. AII roonB will have a full size sofa sleeper and beappointed with comfortable furnishings urith a country favor.The lobby will be a spacious lobby appointed with confortablefurnishings and a f ireplece conversat ion area. Alsor thelobby area wilI have a contincnta'l plus breakfast area whichtetill consist of cof fee r iuice and assor t ed rollsr muf f insrbreadsr hot and cold cerealsr rhd fr:sh fruit. Located offthe lobby is a spacious pool area with whirlpool r exerciserootnl and a gane rootl.
The building uill be a 3-story urood franed structure at thehotel roons! the Iobby and pool area is a l-story wood framedst ructure r the entire st ructure is spr.inkl:d for f ireprotection. The building wi ll have a 6/12 pitched gabIe roofwith hips and dorrners over thc rerindowsr covered withTimberline Class A shingles. Siding re,ill be cedar lapsidingr the first floor wil'l be Eccented with brick veneer.lelindows will be slide-by units urith interior grids for thecountry favor . A large 27 foot by 40 foot canopy uill extendfrom the front entrance out over the drive isle. Thesurrounding landscape wil l be eppointed with verious treesrand shrubs.
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buffiElTrash Enclo3uae Elevallons
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ctts, turtl lEetlng - fcgrber 18, 1989
6: ^ O'!SaS.W perforrur= H tBEt be Fo6ted sitt! t.he ctqi to guarantee tlrat
ary orerlard haulage to tlp flU ero le rcstord tD lts Eesent conititlcr,
that ary darage to tb retentlm lrd te rcplred ud ttEt .ll dlstrub8dt
areas rre aeedd c &ddd as a(El ar paslble ylth cmelor sttrol8 belngrsintalnd ttrorrytnut.
7. A grding Frr.lt Ct U be .&rltteal td grrorrd bry rtdf plor to rU, gork
begimtrg an tlE slte.
8. tse rhall. be ro fllltrg ylthln te fet of ftE GdllrEry blgh nter nrk.
fU votd ln f,avor croett OrltlLwr Eo!,t rtD otPord .rd t.he rotlcn carrldvith a rcte of a to 1. t
EIIISE TNCfiIEII'NAL EBII,, @OEsI fi'Irs E':EL.
tul f,rauss lt. l{ryu, tpDera pf ttc ctty Cburtlr. r.st tthur-talrr EreE beenrlvfa4ng Lufltting FlrrJt pldis for tle Ontr-r, tbq,ttlftB, Srft s ;nf lastquEdry recelvd ace lnfortrtlqr th.t thp'e se gorrs 6 bc arctrltec.tsrral
changes proposed b the bdfathg. l[rrerl trc reaeorrs for tln ci.rEea. OE ssegnrently ua fran*ri.e cclnratlor todr ucepttcr to ur rof unE urat n*
been Foposeat. Ihat tt di&rrt ratch rI, uttb thelr corlnrate lnrye t $!as Edth"t c?" be expralnd br oD ate,vdq€r ln a rdnrrte. rie otts di irit ure.es! a r-:lc urterlylrg thrEt of tqdng to ..\ro tl@, on cuutlr&.tlrE thebutfrtfug.- -there are a lot of d|!rge. to ttE butfdini tf,"t nrc tetni eryeorare of-tri9h rD- lmger ar? Etg gopoe<t. &re of-r*rldr are Uaekifif-tooePtlble brt ttq, ue algnlflcant GuEh +hrt rE't tat.l ln tot l, I Gst'lgurhg o sign a hr{tirq Fnrt berue t dldrtt thlnk tt cr tti lrtutrrglqr b.d aprwed. Ztp changes l,rl,'ecd roitlflcattcre to tb rof ltra.Eletisr of c=dar crake &lrglea lor !8Fhalt drlnglca. trn cltrdnattqr of oE
9r,roryr-tlE rall caropy ar tb E8t ride of +he hlldlrs rd a rlgrntftortitomsiztrq of ttr raln atrl,r oarcrry. ltc brtritfug fu i2 tet o5rtcr than ttrr..(l to be. I belleve thtt8 tE6!b1y aU tlE cfrargcr tht E l@[d .t. lE,rfti rcgard to Ee roof ltr: drrqeer-t tblnl tlrrcir hen Ec ndiifotfmrlre lt ss flrct prqoseit to tl3 brt ltnrdal, tl[t bo* lnb snt3lgge3ttdls t'hat E ti.de to lrrgron ttre rlgbt ttrc. gutcalU, th clglnal mof.!at& tnat hd be€n propord rcs a naslve tlab pttchd rof ttrat bd-m{tfry
!o q*l 1! lI) or rot rrcry-nrdr to bsGllr tt ry. er lorl out e ftor thc
.. g!"frE: th.t tby.!! prgirldr.rs tontglt, tbrtth.r.ri .aEtttq.rl ibEfffng b.irE. IEqDsed. - ltE dGreeloFr.l_brc ryS!,t p dr!!s tlE Fct g. tfEt theg, iant -
lpu to fdl !t ln tet.r. t g|rs I .lD bd a fhfforfhfcd-t.aD rlEflr,t.Utat I lhorrld laSz cr tlr table rrl lttr UEt thlrctr Uicn gr:r oaclartql tn UrFtt-*Em th buttiltqr tjlt! b!eG-b.a qtr,G@d ut dra4Ed O'-lE, t:b
IrlUfrE peurrtt goccas G .ft r tnat rd-i sg rra.,fortr[le tetrp-e prty to!Ft. tt:r ry b.lt€f tlEt l&? l|or -tl E t{Et-!Err,! qpovd r-tof-falnir--t tlt !o,r lave an .tfeetatlm tltlt tlEt b,rflilfnS fr rtufii gotnE b U U{it.lltuefce, ard glnen th t re sutretntr tlllt thla derGlqlrr Ui, UrcrrOor fEntGal to htng tt bEI bfce lur tonfEht d t t lplr lt*. uc dietrtor rld6tct s rt.rtcn -y to go at_lt: tn tlri irtrrc, gtigr p,r atctfor, rVpefcrcrc: t! r.tsr the.e fnalftlanr crrop !p lr to luet ty slt, lf li.r arlOtflcmt det htlcl *q.tfn^rpgld lfb pbr,-ranrwigSt t6 9o Urar Uuoo*t'hc planrtng &,[.dslcr, ctty 6uEu 16 p trror$ tt qiln tecirD ut rr -
,Dt tlE ptoJet thlt E .EtEorrd. t @dtn td tttr rrrrfrr uttb lEat (s.dt
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Br: sL}. rEeL.'.J -\.t L,er
rd lp lrdicatedt tbat tlp HRA rculat pdably trve slntlat @rberna as Elt. Ihe
Cltg hla a slgniflcant ttahe ln ttrla proJect ad lr.g sdEituld a coqurablerenio for their retlrg or ltnrraday.
(brEltrsr llcrtG.n: tc ttEre a trlge that CDiB & dranges?
Eul xrlr8s: IitsII ttE rcar 3 pgca, !d ltll lct lt. fEcfnger erplaln th.t btth rear 3 Fges of tl- origlrul tn t.hat pa*€t sfU becoe ftat tE3tr re
goposlrg rw. ry the E:,, I 4,ologtE for tlr tde abte of gEttttE th13 b :roublt errents oeeurrd ratler last sd E Just Eot +rr.e qrrlelrel b l@k at
todalt.
ltrr€ tgtrdrlgs: Ood evcntry tlr. telE. Cbl'EtbsrDers. l!, nrE lr fvtt
tEr.rdrBer. I repres€nt D.W. Itrtt Bralutants lrc.. Or|rtnatlm rrrangacrnt fortle firr, ad tt. Btor&erg rd a Frt Erh{r fc tfE ortrtry lb8pttautt, sdteslbtel. ts hrrl rgrtland to !ur, last Ek I .tf'ro.cttd hts, rtth ! lrqlEst u a
cmsidcratlon of r&rt changee cotrld b n ab to $e bdl'lttq to @rfont rtttt the
Col'try llospttaltty $rltca dgrnrture EqulrGEnts ltd hry .tgrtratue trqultewrts
I rrcan brtldtng t&ntlftcatior. ln tfie bepitrltty lrdu.tr-v' tfey ltke to be
lble to have tlrlr bulldtqre tahnttftd b4r certatn trldgt'arts. (he of tle
tradgtarks ls of courle tlE ontry look tDtch at tlE frott of tle bdlilirlg.tI$ ttE r@f pltdr aB he h.dt twttlad. Ihcy ue .trlctUr otpold to ttE flat
roof 3o clrr llternative Es to.4frrolch you rlth gotnE to a 6312 pltch roof ad
- tryirS to get ! pttdr th.t puld on!rcirre to tlE otEr butldtqs ln lurr clty.
In ibing that I grBs I dl&rrt canvcry ell corgh to tul taat crr lntentlonsEs. I uderstood that b tltolrgtt E Ere loklry !t ! Fctty Ell fl'at r@f
wlttr rp detail. Basically I na tqdng to get lnfmutlon &qrr tdrgr as to *ut
t:pe of detall you'd be looktry for ard then t*e lt back to tlE tlchltect tofint crrt lf tiatrs in fact r*Et E colild & Jd forbmtel!, t thltilr c sc &le
to do th.t grtte EU rrd L€Gp the orlgtnal fade tnat 1ut hd aElted qan...
Ihls lllusttatlon terc *ro€at tJir flat rof stth a mnanrei! ad lt lDtl look at
tlre rrertleal ele\EtlmE of the brrllitlrg !o!l crr E th.t tlrcc rof llrla rtght
here are BtlU psedcndnEnt tn the g$lcd r@f. !trtey crterd t llttlc btt hlgtcr
though because Erre gofuE lf, .but 20 feet nrrtlE dljr t'!. t@f Pltcb. 8o ttEErnts are still there. ln tr$r€ to ft-t l*r Srltert rcqulroctt ttnqh for
the pltctr roof e ran lnto .rDtlEr ProblG !'d tbat ss vltlr th cdlr abl(es.
Itp 6de regulrea that UEy be flre Eeatd Ed b llte trclt usltE ti.t qPe of
a ahake m ttat nassi\re of a s@f gett to bG t PrctE stistdrtl.l cost fEtor.
Its ere coBlderirlg ln t,r. other alpllotlot to u.e r rpn-trcated duhe hrt bveIt palntd over oE treatd t4r ftre drgt.to1 prG!.s. fitt tDEt,lr l. to lorger
acceptablc ln ttE State 6de6. 8o tattt n sntod tD Folpc fnrOail lr u:lng a
Ilrtlerllre rtrlngle *rtdt Etvcs 1ur ttc arqe .PIErrlrE! a. cdlt rhalrre. 1'l-
EIE Itnr referrlng to Ir r$.t youtre -elng Frt qr tI! ntvrrle dglt tDe. lDt
rftlt 13 sr tJe rbfpltE clntGr lrd tDt r.lat le an tlt aFttsErt tEdct btttltd
the dropplrg €rter. fd thlc .hale t! r Cl.!s t !!td &.h. rd 1t'. brllt rP
ln layers ard etr. talklrg ln tlr crccar of 259 pordg. Dt f&t lttr rwc llb
3OS porlr a. ttr lEetq, 3uc ltr3 3e0 porda. !!rll tdll gtve 1ur tlr rrre
Gffect ar tb nod .tste. tf lur &tvo Flt Ul Rlvgrla !d lut lol rt tle
ffi or at th llght2 tt gtrrea !i'lr tlt sr. ott fta tha dlrtaa aa lt h.B
ttc arre cffet a! a rod etratc brt itrr bdf th. @tt of I notl ihalte. lf 3ut
look, Eettfulg bck Q tlE roof agplnr lf 3ur lot et ttp e*std pgc udcallath
thc slE pl.n yott cai'ec ln a vlcc lokiq atorr r1ur thl rof. trt potnttry
thlr ant to ftor agab to -pr yog tltr! ltfu vlery tr tlp wtr ud drrt b,
the Bhdold effect of tlp rof tr goltg to tahc PIE D tlrt 3urr11 h.ve tht
65
aar€ ap[Earnrr rhen lou look srto t]e buildlrg. ithat tlEre are Jogs anloffsets in the roof ard itIs rot just a eirgle plarE roof urat eirecartslpladr€. tte lssrr m tln carnpry, r*Et haFpened there ls ktrd of tFfold. tl8&er cre, lt took amy fro, tle corntry porch 4peararre andt nriberts, it bec.rre a r.asslt e atructure because of ltri 4ran. lte caropy that Esproposed c rourd rp in tlE final dkawlnga Es cE that pnned {g ieet ad ss
32 feet, riab. It had to carr:, a lot of atrrrtural lod art tfp e1e berts becareuy rrassive in tt .rd so rttat_e Ent b propose ls a lesser tpe of crmnr. I
*Du19 b-k n,lcelf qr lrre a rrrlnute. lltn reasm thls caropg goC to Ue ao Ltg ts
t}tat- ltts r,y rrderstarding it rgrt frqrr a 2{ fot iklveray b-a 30 foot &tviralrto aUq, buses to tum ln tbre ard unlod. llhat.s stI, iC stt to a ,.ot blgger-utan tne recurcrrlations of &l the ergineer. torever, rD c!6t factore Erertplld to thls or e'lgirerirg at that tlr€. ftrs our lntgrtlon that E Ent bEe . canotry ard r think e can do tnts try lf pu lok at the elerratlon cn therst Fage behlnt tlE rof. -lrte_top elevatlfi to tlE left strorr pu ttE €ntrarr,nto ttle rotel. olr lntsrtion te to take tf|at enter portlon -t t"i L litng--tlEt out- lbr€ver, !t thls lErtlorlar tlrre ard because of our finarilalrestralnts artl ao forth, e haventt b€n &le to do tbe enqlrErlm c the co8tvale m tf,rat. tt'6 qrr intentim lprever to do 8dr€thlrg - ln that-.rea ard rfiatrr asklng_ fox is lour blessing tn letttng rs 90 ahead wtth a perrdt and rcrk orthat. r think Hr. Broorberg muld even grpori re in the tact- tlat hers prett!,ldnant that tE rants that canoIry lrd tc uslaff3r gets hta ey t ttrlnk. go errerct t}lroriry that entiretlr. IE Ent to look at eore differenl rlterrutlveE rnalE Ent to trl, artl satlsf!, the fr-ughiaer Lry gtving a stlll a porch tlEEq{Eararr artt ralbe E can Just brlrg that little cancpr of tttat dotn1,, brirgIt an ort lrrl erve tte sa.e F.rrpose trrt toor at scre aiirerent engtneerirg,8F+ur+ !"g1ng9.irs sr lt so E can r@rpri.tt that. the eitru[ion, le-haveCprEned t]te Lobby by 12 feet trrt tlere Eli E(rr€ discrsslon al8o t:ttat'E rEntedto F.ove tte buildirg 12 feet to ttE e.Bt. tbg E h.ve abarrldrd that ideabecause agai.n orx tirre restraints and E &n.t Ent to Eo throEh tlp rooessuressarlly of havlrg to go before zorlrg agaln arri rc forth ir e aiouu r.orrctbat brtrding. so that has been auardond. ce of tle corcern8 Ea tbat BEens a sterr.ain l6atd "l9rg *I rest for'datlar EIl ard 6ry ns goirg to &acrc research fi that. r donit lsor lf lEra dorE ttrat lEt for-rre t[t b ss
9olrg to look at that.
G'ry Hrrr"',: r havgr't finlsH. rErvr beerl loktng at r*retter E om get Lryytt}tout tlsrr but I hav€ni t corcludt€d !et.
'[lve lErrrringer: so thatts dr are! liat E tE\re to drees ErGtrof Lrrt oE' lntentlm ls rDt to rove ttc b.d1dlrS.
Ot,Ellrrn Isrhr.n: fty & yur Ert to rove lt b*k Ul f.et?
hrc Erdrger: tGll E Ere gotng to rurrc lt at first to tahe tt off thatntemaln ao E could construct vltJlo'rt brrns to @rEern olrselvea rlth trpnln.
City 6lrci1 lbetirg - Easr&er 18; 1989
cr.!&n Jdvrso: !: stenraln tr gotng to b .brdord brt ttgrtrt rDt 1tt8tlder\drg ttE footlrg. \
G!I!, tihr!€n 3 Be abarttqEi'rd rq,laod.
&urllran Jotnsor! As EErt of the cUlstrlEtlan?
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6
r,. L:-..r rEr- rFE Lrrr!, - I5-\aruEr Lo, L2o'
Eve lEflrdrger s E routd lronrd.
6ry l{rrren: ls Frt of trhe tEoEDed clty prbltc lqrrorerent goJet thre.
tE're looklrg to ee lf e have crrqh loptrg capactty rlght ru, to allm lt to
be abarddrd slrEe E Fuldrrt be cntertalntrg constnEtlon of lrre rE{, &alnrntil ttc eattnr braks ln tlr rprlrg.
&rrEllr,an ,rot rson 3 fill ttny ltatt csrrtrEtim thlc vlnEr Ft?
Eve tErdrger ! buli! E Btlrt?
ourlltl,an Jotmsm ! !eah.
Dne tbrdrlge[: !es. lt alreadly lrrn. tn Act arrr l€der las rcqulrd ljlat e
atart rs of last Ek lrd so th.trr [!rt of qr rcctralnts bre.
GurEiltr.an Bo!t: t ttrve a qnctton lf t rdgtt. tt. Bloatbrg, donrt 1ur trve
cdar ghakes o.l lortr bulldirg notl?
tEve tts'sdnger: lb srts to lsDn tf yur have odar clalet ql le:E brlfding ta.
Ior:r €slstlrg builttirg. Yes tE alca.
olrEltrl. r blt: IltsU tps ts t rts gofng to Etch lf ptr tahe
"l,rr&tltrr
ard
rotdr lt r4r agalnst ocdar?
tGrb Blooberg: Yorr cantt teU tor yttlr t E dtctcntrg of ttE hdfp&tE, lt lrs
ItiB dvantage. Itrr Soltg to have alrroet ! ag fot allrtre betGen ttE
rebullt lrea thatrs Uing...arU the tDtel. lry f!.Ittrg lr that l. $t4g to be r
roof lirE r.hich tral, be rrore flat t{r to a ralllrg dt lt ao tlE tDEl archltcctlre
1111 !t rd eiEr.te fro., the orE golt€ b lt. Ihlt lr tle tct[tlt sc. Orr
glur ns to n r tlE rhakes uo|.r,d ttttc ard cdttlrTD Ith. r.rat fu sr tl! lnttal
Ealr b,rllding r ! r'6n8rr roof ard lf e bane to nle t te flrc ntd 61n91ee
thatrs fl,E slth rre brt to tlE, I thlnk dpl E 9€t to th htl tllt lt Yt!.l be
ttE asFhalt. I urlnt lorrr 1I rdetrtard tb dlleltrta Etrt crce gDtEn lnto at
tbls, a fen of tlcse cbange8. Ore tlrl'E, t E rtt trh.t cloc to ttt.lddtcct
*!en they atarted brt ttcy Ere 4frro\rd ad very twt lrtoolvd rlth tIE 6,rtqr
Sulte6 Hotel aii lrtr..s ]rrPrl.d nlEelf Ulat tlE, dtahrt dcrtEr tn the ftr3t
plaoe slt'lr thte gabld ttflEt rrc bsuae t aar tltce td t E5 .tEr .t tle Erud
ognnlry of thc crE ln Brrnanlllc t&ldt se qr of tl! first o:l lEG. Ert qrr
positlon today l. t iat E hlt e the !E $ssrt ttnatllrg. E hilI. t|! tnul&
flrurclrg Lut tlte pr&lar lt thtt n have b fiEntlh a tot drtretldl
etatereni that tt c.n b lrdtt !c ttt tttutEfng. 8o t&* ctlc uffuE for lt
tlE FBdt to 9o atnail or Ulls bttl., taldt tr rlti tlE t*h.lt drl4gle ld aa
f,rr ae t.he carpGtr a orrrtrd, trn ln bqpa tiat E om tlrdrorr agrEa tt t
otrt rri 9€t Ullt ltte a carpct. ltD TEe.Eatr tdu b calcrttally ta.t L dr
th orlgtrul plar rd t thltrl tlt rot 1111 b a lltttc htgtu brt t thtnl tb.t
sfth t;he 3 story brlldttng, ld aa 3m tot !t tltt ot ru, lt rtn be IDUE
thtrd htghr perhapa ln t!: rof ty,rta r6ldt t tlt {. rtU b. &llro&lc ntlrr
tn n urta gojectlor. |trlla peaentett6...ttl nrn rlD tr Etrlly &ttg tb
constnrtlsr rtanags'ar.rt rrd Erve gotta tIE b&!a tn gd f:blr cur b iloc lu tn
thls trdget brt e dlo,tt.ne t thlnk. god gllotl' ol FrbE. od I tltlnk I sr
eell tlsr, cr dlolrg rqrc otfs tlllqrr fc tIE b!.1 b cb.n€D tl! tnt rlc to th
6t
betEfit of lhat Erre trldrE to do ln tlrle oorrrunlqr. I thlnk thatra rore or
Less the stor-v.
ol,Eibdl Bolrt ! tlank 1ou. I grrets that elplains rtt:, lrout re mdng tn t:re
because -pu canrt bulld tle lnltlal butrdfuE for ttc rrolnlt of rorcy you havefinarrd.
Dve ltrGdrB€r: ttatis correct.
&.rrllrtat hlt: Because rhat I see }|l)u tbing ls I Bee pu takirq a lot of@at, _rB:rbe rDt lrroportifiaE to tlE total @st hrt a slgnlflcant-dol.1.r r'ountort gf tu brllilirg cost yise. I.& rot 6ure, one of tln things tJlat alE],atroubles rre ls rrrhen t.tE city ourril ant the Hm rre both rrctirg sr the sareigsrE. r'n rot car,fortablJ vith that. ltE HRA tss s,sra&auri isci-rn tustnfF "rd *r€'l t}Ey Ir:t FsEl, into lt, I reaU:, llke to aee ,rs co.e oit ,ttt "prodet tl|atrs everlthing e hoped tt rcurd be- Bo r.tr, r little rerrrEtant to aeetln butfding sttink ln.size. Ihatrs unfortr:nate that e have to gfve-rp ttE
"f3 *"Lo. E'y" giro tlgt up other places in toun. I $Ess I "*'1lr.uitlr- tlrat IErt of it easier than r crn rirre wlttr ttre tnriurr; belrg 12 feetgnaller r*rich rreans considerable lecs square fotage.
Cl.ltton Jotnsgl: Bill, if I could cqrr€nt. ItE 12 feet ls orly tn tfn pool!rea. rtrs rDt in tlp r.aln Nlairq. rt.s in tl: poor area ttrat ure brirarrgls beirg stlort€n 1.2 feet. rtre lssr- of shakes goes back to m ttE old planr
uhen LE had a rtansured roof, cedar dakes ere in tnstgntricant -rtgr,-ur[ ruj.t" t go_P t}E fulI 9ab1e rof ayd rlttt ttE rw req,rire,cnts that .rgl' inplac'e for fire retardarcy, tle edar dEkes are J.rst lot a grtical -{'tton.I-t"!'" tt E:r it ls. tD rntil Just recently re could have- grt cr th &aar
"t.F "rd fire gxmfed tlsr, ritfi a spralr oriraterlal. ftutie rc foqerIErJtteit .rder the code so E haye to 9o to a claas A ahlrglc ant TliberrlrcEuLd lrEEar to be tlE bst sorution. oe ottrer ccrrslt. in regard to thecamry. rtrs like pinnehio r s rDse. rt keeE s grrostrg. rt atar[d ort stth avery rdest canory. ltre crrcry on tne oinner lteatre- ls about 2s feet rag.l*ten ttE decisim ms rrade to t€!! atom tlE gabled rof bdurr€; sE{-cr,e rn
i{9 Etp"a rrs redeslgn
"11
n?* lajlrng rd ttE atackirg tn ttrat-area. -tlrn theydid that, the &ivaay !rre{ to SS tee[ becarrse evlorsiy tt rcufa te-nfl to&rcrrndat€ hr8es ln &.ordefly [ranrEr. rtren t.te roaa grec to 39 feet, rcn tiecaro[ry grfl to {{ feet f" l:19Ur. t{ r 36 ro I Eean lt-uas JuEt ae oi tbelss.eo that tJe architect dl&l't reaul, go -brk an! dress irto tr,"-c,.r,9"-. se rade bll B[[{. So tErbr8 tope is to rtalntaln ttc carogr. .!-te orrt-to tfreirleslk. Eoject it out olrer ttre roa. ralntaln ttE s;: roi aot-tt= rueetblt glet aray frcr, that 18 fot tEr 36 foot r.ss. Itrs Eeal.i:, txtg.. -- --
otrilran brhran: 8o Srort re aaylng gour re golrg to l."eg ere curqry on there?
crlytdr JolrEcn: yes. rtrs Just rut golrg ort all ue over the ro.at.rttrEbrirg an tlc lslard. Insteaat of betrg lg feet.
Eve ,hrdrger: tt Ertt be aB fet.
CIa$Dn Johnesr: It srtt.be l8 feet lcrg.
CtE, Ol'Ell lbetin, - Ecsr,ber 18; 1989
&rrrilr,u lbrtctan: tt w111 b tu, lorE?
68
cla:ton Jot r8s'r ! llce lfou go crt to ttr sidemlk Ett tlE r carElgrer ilt to ttte
street. I feet?
Irve t5rrdr€er: I feet. I fet b ttE dat*lk Jtl Usr treabfy another 6
feet G 30. ltrd be 1l Geet.
Ol'ElLran libElsr.n: tllrtrs 1l feet golng b cover?
Claytcn Jotnsdl3 It vlll IEEr.lt ! c.y to tp uderrcati.
Eve ltsr,inger 3 A car rd a vehlcle to [rr1l rp along the cnt of lt D tiey can
get out sr or€ slde ard go tlrough rt t}e .rre tlre.
&,tllran Jol,l8ol: ltsi lon tly to ttr street, lrcnrr re rDt ta*fng IEst 78tI?
Clalton Johnsgl! liEire tDt trlklq ft* ?8t.h stret. 8e tbrere that b19 brrn
aroud in there tjl.tr3 39 feet vtde Jd tlc ctginal clrDtry Ent orrt to the
aldmlk, actoss ttE 39 foot atret ad bqir'td. llhatt s *I, tt enid q, so h€e.
Eve tEta,lnger: Ert .s ltrb h.t rrsrtlold, E rre gplng to tsy ln ttE tDFs to
r.ke that a lorEer qE !Et. lb tr!, Jd gEt brd( to Urat 18 tf Fsstbfe hrt e
brve to look .t the nalt'ed erglrrerlng urt ttE ltrtrtrual epablltE of tt.
ttpr Ctldel: ttE atalE th.t tt ta!u, lf lt nre to be |I, to 1l det, lou'dtprobably get I or tt.lb 2 ous tn tlEre !t tlc rur.
brtllran l{orlsr,ans CE rtth the doore og-lt.
r&1or Cl!de1: Right d trse lsrn tilt Itte gorc lnto dlffer:nt t6tel^otels
anit ltrs nle ard corw€n16t pllrt t tilnk tt .AE . lot of E3thetlcs to lt.
lbkes lt look a llttlc r@e crtpllEtary Just .r I -e UE -ake ddrglea
because tlE lrre8ent Dlrr:r lheatre ta aU ahlke *rlnglea ad !, aanttnulrg rtth
tjloe t tlrtnk Fuld bl6il tn lrdr btte! tian gofng to t D Fopld Crlqlesth.t !'our re talktrg abut tE EII.
OtyEllrr'rn ,rolrrscn! fte flat t@f bo.tle rldbc that ere rlulte rhtnElc.
Orl'rtltr.n Blts ltr. got a btg elopd Fof ol lt.
lbpr Chr,lel: llsr e rlfroud thb, I ltId tlE agElrlc of lt. I trblr* tt
h.d $af tty. I look tllrt E dr'IrltrE rtu!,. I &ntt lstr tf tlrc ctrangc rcr
lre golrg b ib tb sre thl49 lor tt. t bDr tlEC.rc &yr ot.fu $trglca I
belleve that EC qrt m tlE trrrkct tilrt Ea vtay cloD b Ut dlrh rhlnglca.
It\rE l5flrtrEcr: lfia! .r. lDlt rcfGtrlng to?
tiyoE Ctftlels tn rr''.ftlrlt llrd of ntnEle !d ttR rEt .tE rartls thoe.
69
City ourEil lteting - Ecrgr&er 18; f989
clqaton Johnsm: Iibll I dontt tsprr. ttEt le lt to trtE rtreeet ltra r$at Eve?
OorElllrlrr $oEhr.n: lt:n yqr 3ay to the atreet, lput re taltllg abut tle rprth
slde?
tnrt ts! DlnrE llrrEe & lttr Jllst
City 6nEil tGeting - Decsr,br 18; 1989
Eve fH.rdrger: lhls ls lt.
t$1or Grrdel: lt, uErerS sra others tbat rrte een that are otlpr tttan that.
IEve ltsrrrrrlrger: :IlEre t a a tnavier gde.
[a:'or chrdel: lbrers a different grade and it has a littre different effect btt. It has a rlple ln tt just !s a 6hake strlrgle bas.
ID\re ltsrrLinger ! Itsve ]rou seen tlE roof tbatts golng an tJp Rtrrcrla?
lilor Ctrrdel: !es. I ddrrt like tnat ae eitter. !ry wr oplnlor.
Ilve ltsrrdnger: -liten ]'ou Be thle mit tlp eia that tt ls, lorr srrt trrDl, thedlfferere stardlrg cr tln grgrrd ard loklrg rt lt ntEttEr it,a going to b aettar 6ake or an aq,halt dlake.
tlrlor Grdel: r questlon that. r can dtstlnqdsh tie differerrce bel lene re.eesthetlcal.l!, ln just looklrg at lt, yut can tel! tle differerre. llrere r s ,Dqrestion ln r',y ndrd.
Eve lFsdnger: Iorrr lI teII lt in a aertaln ra3r trrt gul ttf, siae lt.e going to
Siyg Fr !f,. g*. lnpresslor. llhatis r.hat purie loklrg f6r ls, $hat lird ofa'bierce it glves to :,ou rfien lpuJ re lokir1g at it. Dd it gtvi yur tfreInpressior of the country lok, tle rcstern look rn r thir* [tut,i r*rai-tt aoesfor }ou. Ird it gives lou tlc best fire rating 1ou can poesibl3r get. .
Ie:,or Chldel: Right. I realiE that. a
Eve lEr.rdrgetr: trd I ttrink thatrs a blg consideratlon tlrat ghorld becasiilered rritcn Surrre considerirg lt.
tlaltor Grtdel: lrqr otter dlsc,usslm?
Aurllr,an Bo!t: rft.t di4.tlE Hm ahctde?
ft "yt.. gotrg to rerler lt ltnrday.
EEb Eloarberg: I Es Jrrst gotrg b d[rsrt. I Gs EtctrirB t Er. L:rlng UEddples today or the niverl?, fintatring qr ard tfnre ss a llght eni aU pucculd ee every ror of drlrgles. fctuaU!'- theae are i thlchrries tf !,otr lookln ptrc ard ttE rrlnlrrn of 2 & tt ta tfiat effect. &vlorsly tfde ti a
=p-Ie,
I donrt tlink glves pu $e flavor of lt at all. fhiJC,o$ tur thlckIt ls.. rt gets to be .bout a ha]'f firc*r thld. tlEEc... l1r tlp :y trtror4r ucto;r-tlere-isnrt a alngle rnr drake roof . tbsver ln tlr rebulldttfo, *at
. tley're-golrg to be ataotishlrrg, that rtll be rtrate rd tt yttl te iinarrA{rtch d}l b very ihtdrwrt becarrge ltts ! t er:7 hlgh, and! Epr ftot there &un,tt &ust be over l.gg0 fe€it of dEke- btrallnga frot tlrat butldtrg aro|rd to ttrbtel. Ibrm beyrd ttE tEatre ylu be rll-crahe aat r urtnk lf,a up flavc oftle ton.._.9oirq_ to b okay. ...rerode1lrg of E= karlot t gtm $tr! UE!,rc\rd tn *nre th Rlverla lg rpw. t€ ga've Hrerr t,re cralec foi thelr fro*tcntraEe. r started tlp sh.ke buslrEss brt tlE cloest Erte gottgr ru tr tt>ftterllne toof.
olcilnran Dlniler:
7S
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I
Ctty OrrEtl lGettrg - ecenber 18; 1989
OoryEilFat! blt s So *Et e harre srtrol orer ls tfre bdlding Frfttt. Is Utat
ttE tlDtlght?
I€1or Ctr'.iel : Ies.
6rElb.n Bolt: titsll t&at &cE ttE lnA have control 6rer bre?
Don lshrmrths ltE mly thirg the HI{A la dblry le bls an lrrrentlve rcgardlrg t}e
rpecial r8sesrr.trts or Frking lot ,rEEorrsrdrts. &e!, are rDt tn aqr sy
ttnaetry l*- rtruclse or the lard EIE dwr or slthlrg ele.
cbrElb.n Jolrrsons Et UElrtre gotnE to b tb EEctaf .ss.ttr.nt rdtEtlon
pro!fiarr that gca throryh tb llRA?
hn lstnDrth: Ies.
o|,Elltr'an Bo!t,! so t gnrss tlE $€tlm UEn 1! rould e bve ryroveil this lfIt ns ccr,lrg to us !s tt ta bctq preuttd today. ttrrtgtrt.
6r:rrllr',an Joh,'Edl: I tilnk I Fuld.
O.rcihlJr <,: I thlnk a coDEryr a ! ,rlce toEh. t lgree rdttr tta tl!1or. ttylll attract scrle EEpIe JuBt bccltrse ltrs ! cd r€trlcrr.
6rrtlb.n Jotrnao'r: Itre ban to bo t-ry tDtGIs vtthorrt tlre aqrtcc tn therain. It egr€ lihe it olfy ralns at ttr hotala rtttDrrt canoplee...
ouclt!'an lsrtsran s I $Ess gtckly .rd ffi GsFitf.rEr rate, lt l6oIE ltke
ttere rg I &ale bere. OE, ltrles. !nD, tb bolld$Et t golrg to be U f6tatDrtrr. [rr€e, shorter c rc onopl.e
Eve ltrrr,r.rger s Shortrr carDry or an artsdd clrDlry.
l{apr GIdel: 1l feet c.
Eve lgrl'drqer: (f better.
7L
Ourllrtan tlrrlsrsr: frd a ldgEr rool llne. I ltte tJt btghrr roof llrc. I
donrt &lrd t-}E .hak$. Ul lEet alDrt r, Itrr got to lsDn rore rbout ralrc thrt
-mr llne ad that, I donrt trdGrstatd th.t. trEr t tfilnt lie cur1ry, t dorrt
!.lrd tl- aorrrtr''v 1oI but r tcr€r dG ln Ur frst rd yul bu. ltrd of thlrg.
Ete lgwJrEer ! ttrr rpt e gsr dor.
erEtb'ln tbrlsrsl: tt f,Ee 1@t! tht ny or tte ptcbce ovrr bc. I gtrE!.
the 4rrtstcnt bufldirE Ert up tn tu.i rd go I b!86, ttr rlD q! dt Enf, sdI fErrd tiE r.!t of ttt EA klrd of rrrihlltg, grcz dtld E atpEoyt tIEt. er,
E6 thlt Uut clo- to U! rolal !G El ldtcrl Etl trdfdhg rd bly @ !dIt Es looklrE tlnt of blre Lcd bectlD tlry hd ga: tluo$r -lte ol tlr .rE
IEGsles. StrtpptnS tt aloIr ktd of tit4g. l.n rDt D rEr UEt tlEct. lott
of people that lrc Eelly ttrtry ad I dolrt Et, thrt b happa to thlr. 'llblrls gotrg b b ! claqr -t ail riEr yur -11 lDrE s€r tult a, tlEt !sl. lttr .
fancry plel othrrlD ltrdl b. ,tr.t rqE.
Ctty Orrrtl lEetirrg - Ecaber 18, 1989
Erre lFfidtBer: bnrt let that rrdsled pu tlnqh. It has a coutrt4, ttgte toIt ard pu have to r€rsr&er that. tE Ll€a of tlE country erltee tpspltalit:t
frarchie.
orEilwan Johnson: ?ou F€an tlryrne got Jt orthouse?
Eve tErrr,lrger: tb. It has tlE cotrntJry lok ard tlE 12 feet that E're
affecting &€s rDt affect tlE l,tits ttEr,selves ard ttE sdtc8 sr€t t ls a
bedrocr, ani a parlorr corEept. lthatr E tlE cotrePt tlEre. ttra trt, tt gptng b
qgrade lt frc., a hrdget brt lt doesn I t rake lt a bigb class.
&rrEiltr,m fiort$an: f uderstrrd. I Just dbntt h.ve r ve[:7 god clarlficatlan
Ft m rtry lt has to be 12 feet rrt rtalbe Gry crn give rte tlrat explanatlon.
It'E just a gercral idea of klrd of ,u E're strlEpltB lt all back ant th€tl
rcrr:dng later .bout:Eah, E alprovd lt rd !Eh, lt doesn't qulte crlr€ tP to
*pre e tlolght is ss aq4nsed to.
Eve tFrrdnger: BIt lDur 12 f@t @tEern i8 ! !..U IErt. I go back to *tat
ttrb Es sayirg earlier in lour 2 garage affalr. It'a a $411 stlot of just
rof ad oPen eace.
Grcilr'an Jotnson: Itrs tln l&by and tlp arlrrr,tng poo1.
hre tFr.drBer: [hat's right. IttB side oIEr lrea ao:ul're rct trklng a lot
of...
Cla$on Jotnsdl: llrrers a lot of hlatory to thls. I rea1U, dbnrt llld the
cfirptatlm tjrat itra all dorE for cost. Itre ddE trylrg to rcrk vlth tI-
frarchisee and Frt. ItE r*tole lcsrE of tne Pool get8 btck to a IsslE of
a4nrvlsim. rf lrout re mt goirg to have fuIl tlre sqnrvision ln tln;nol area,
tten ttey rEnt to keep t}e pool area sr.al.l. 8ta11er. In thla t$E of factlity
yur're rot golrg to have fult tlre sulErvlslm ln tle E@l arer.
OuEilrt.n Bo!rt,: lprerg rot fu]l tirrc a4-rvlaion ln a 1rcl uea tn rty !rcJ.
ln towr ln a hotel.
Oayton Jotnsm: lltere ls ln a large tbl idqt€ d a facllltry ltke ti.t brt there
Ertt be tere so ttE:' Ert 1p 16!rre tlE arolrlt of ettra sEE arold tfE p@1.
_ Itra trgring to aatlsfy both the frarrtrlae ard ercr. I think Erre t ery tlr€d
tnto tlE clorEerns that hlve been voioedl ln ttr gast about tdEt haFetrcil tD tfE
4Erb€nt project. Itati6 rity e're co,lng bck to lnforrr, you !t e\reryr ateP of
t't..ay aE to rihat tte drarges lre !o your re ln a Posltlon of bltE infoErd
tatlEr tban errgleed.
&rEltr'Jr JoLnsdr: You ergge6ted to hul to brltB thl! b.ck to u8?
cf!$on JolrEdr: It EB Prulrs declalm *EttE b bElrg tt b.ch. tll e can
ib fs tE€p hi$. pat€it.
O|rEllEian Dinler i oan.s -ndl tt bEI b PbtlnttrgB D Utey tEed to E lt?
trrl Rrauss: Ihatr8 an optisr. t thlttt( 1ur trrn tD dbteEr,ltE lf tln clugrea
are signlficant errugh to Errant that. I thlnk ln tl- 6:ture lf e ontfuur,
aay ttarttet SEure cares tn atd lt doesnt t lok llke t'hrket Squ.re, lt BrId b
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CtEl 6rE11 tGetirq - fcerr'ber 18; 1989
rtg lrcllnatron to sd tt b.ck to tlre p1&ntng Gtrrdsslor. EIt tn thl6 oae lt
rtlgtrt nd r.arrant that.
OrEilIlJr Bqt: !trreylre tr:dng to get tlris brtlt. I ro|ild thlnk tErsdlrll!,, I
can give pu tlt rtrlrgles. t Ent ttE rest of lt. trn not trre lbout ! aB foot
lorg €nollr trrt I ar pretBr srre Uut I donrt Ent lt L feet 1qrg. lEtat Eirrt
go 8o scrte*Ere lnbetE€n there. tllgte roof. f agre rtth ihat !ltr' Jurt t€nt
throrryh. Irm eaylng of tlE forr, t glrss glnwr the Ey Erve drlrgled the restof tffr, that I can ltve slth the tt$erllrc atrlrglea blt I donrt E ttE rest
of lt. I think that Es ttE abal lur care tn dth. t titn* t ratrs rlEt lDu
ahouldl have flnancd lt to ab. Irrn anrprhed 1ur dtl&rrt flrurae tt to & that.
ol'Etban Jchngan: I donrt cven thlnk tie Ul f€et &eanr t bother re th.t r.rh.It also poridbs a blgger eluratlor beficen tln crlatlrg bullilinga rrtl tlE
hotel tlEn. l&e tsrdsre etore butlittrq. Itrr orrrcntly a hardlnare rtore. It
Foviales a larger sepratlon. I thlnk th.tra Er lqroratent to ctrlnglrE to
Bh.ke.
tfrb E[oo.&erg: ...aa I say ltts alroet l0 f€et rDr rrd tilttr;rrgh of a
leparatlcn Bo E c r let off the dlffcrere tn tla ardrltecUse *deh I aUU
tnink ta gotng to be ccr{rur.ntar:, b,rt lt oertalnly wrrt I@k ltkc...$rupteal
char€e...reauy qulte bard8crte tr.nsltlan tlEe.
ouEllltr'r .rotrrson 3 !$e Ets pipe free tr o t,re odtr 31ab of tlE btel frqrr
the 12 feet laac. ttut tlp lrar lc la r.tEtlEr c oln gEt altg rlttDut thltster plpe rtrile Soutre corutnrttng trd bfore E hrve tlre rr Et4t plF. Is
that rtlat Itnr gettlrg ard crgtrcertrg lt looklrg at that ltane? f
Dve tFrrdtrger: ![latr 8 corret.
olrrilrr.an Jotnson: fftat bryns lf lt corE6 rp that E dortt have looping
caPaclty arri rc have to hate th.t Et€r pipe ftrctlonal tlurlng lDtlr
constrrEtlon? Ees all ltck break loose?
tbrb Blocn&erg: ln erEirEerltE !tu+r ttse rculd IEot c th.t that catr he
handled. G,vlousl:, tle soll tEst y111 be t t(€n D E loD$ tJEt...lcave tnc pdpe
in there ard jurt blry lt wderrcath...
ourriban Jolmsons lbardon tt Jrt t re tt tn UE futEe?
(!r], t{arrcn: ltE dleueloF.rrt contr.ct tt b ti.t tf tt ta left ln plc, that
baslcallSr cbrlltLv 6[ltes, ElocrDerg r *r.tcrrer !atr&!a tlE rcrportbtltty lf tn
the future lt collal-s .ft E ltra been aburlodt hrt lt Fuld abanlord tn
plme firU of tard Jd grollt c *ratar€r ao tfiat lt rorJ.d ltrbtltD.
6rEllr.n Jotnsr: lh.t tf tlserl botldlttg rttlgtat t-ht kab t'b glp,
erodes the foudetldr ad ttclr hfldftE lallr ln? tr tllt tlt Clt3rrr poblrtr
or ls th.t Blotbergrr IEdltft?
Ilve lErrdnger s 'ltrEt bri.. a Frt EddP ;161rr..
ca4i librrsr: hrtrE.hlp. tst ttr Cltytr.
ot'cilran .rotrr.dl! Ectter bc.
CXq,6rEil tceting - Ecsoer 18; 1989
Erb Blocr&erg: ItiE our pr&lgr lecause...
Ee Ihdnger: rih rculd lave aofr *t'g" done tg an ortsrate f,actrity and tfrb aolls Errarr that rt q.s !o be aq El th'r ; aie r[-,p-ard-i#Bact rt.u grelr-firdtngs lnitietc {l,at E can-br-tige it, crn-- ftir tt as-cary tassrliand.
&rEttr.n ,rohnssr: lre- e golng to be lopirg lt before ltrey rrcve ln eofue.a ro lxoblar, sltlt tlat?
ilrl'or Ctrrtiel :
'o.er!' IErrgl: rb.
e.,Eilftan Jol'nscr: So ltra golng b be, dEl ttEy trdlit ltrs golng to be airrtiming sten'aln rngerrEattt tfnir Urffafng? -
6r:' lihrren: At thls point rn the rt burtt be a firEtranirq steurain. IihatE're l@kirg at ard elDuld b topefully reaolvllg rt r *uri tofi-tils'et, raP f hrg enough looping capactt!, with- ttte inprwerents that Erve dme tn t_heibmttrr irBrova.ents ln phase 2 of tlE aosrtoin anch that lt's ,Dt as lntegralanain as it es bfore.. h 9f the fu,IEcts to tt,at a".i"ron L-iiitL rarrctSguare plat anil suHlvislon .tl$, * :,qr lrq1 also lps ac.e rCtticaU-" to tf.Fterraln rdrich provi&s.u .lternabrop to urre #.tJ"iirJl6l,."loklrg at tH tlDse 2 rtdght eru rp tapeitrg "t tlE ".t tto" G-*ild-""*
:"'9. b baving sc'e goblats. Brt-,rtiiateri tt= ro rain rculd be co.8lt*teattn tlE spElng *rtdr Euld give us back tlrls bnycctfm.
Otcilr,an Boyt: IDt, lfig ls tl= carlogr b bgtn rtth?
Ilalor Grtiel: 49 sare feet.
&r,Ellran Bo-1t: I€11 ltra t8 rrw. rihat Es rt r*En e firgt started? Eforett kept gettlng...
clayton Johnssr: E Etarted sitfi a 2g f@t stret 80 t dorlrt rsDrJ *rat that rs.E&ably l, feet shorts.
.IDve
ltGdnger: ltren tE flrst st ttedt it Fe rcll CDrt.
erEil&.n Bolt,: IEll, 3S sarathlrB ltght?
CXryton &tnson: I @n.t tell 1pu BtLl. AU I lsDr. t8 tb ,trcet g!e{.
Qscllran blt: IEU trrl rrshe a rotl'r to aee rf E-@r get thte rrcvtngrloE- r murd tro\re ttlt E-approve ttre hdlittrB F,ett diarg tri-t arrg"b rttlrEles- rtre caropn-be-tti- ortgrna!, rergtt-cn Ec croesi i""-;.ii" tblrgto tttat *rlch Lsnrt uE lg f,6et, ttr; 3S ao.e[trfrrg.
SH*HH*r1 Etrr, tf ttre 3s tu,1ou.re sotrs to have to 90 llr trE
Gucllnrgr Dlr.ler: tt sl.t go halfia3r ove[ lrE atret.
71
I
i
I
ourcllr,an Jolns0r:
frcr., the gtreet?Iibll 3, feet rtrrts frqr tlc bulld!.rg or 39 feet ltlrtlrq
Cla:'ton Johnson: 30 feet starting ftot tlp bdldltrE. you'rc golng to entl rp tntle nttldle of tlr rod.
IDve ttstrrllng,er s It hrs tD be a8 feet.
cburllnrgr Dlrriler: lou bve to Eo rU ttr ny rtoea tI: rod.
&lrrllr'an blt,: I€U lf lur go olt to tlE lslard, tfu first lllryd, lE tiat
Uhat rErve be€n t lklrg abort bre todght 13 tjt t aB f!et?
Eve tErrdngers ltss.
brrllran Bolt: tt looks llb 38 in 3ou dlagrrr..
CourciL',an Johruon: ttre another lg foot to tne bdfdtq. lttE alaletalkr B 8.
Eve t5F,irqer: Dces lE tave !n oldt alte PIan?
ourEib,an Eolt: IiE]'l Ird be o[El to 8tr ttc drsrt al t.he catDry but tt!, ba6ic
rrotlor rculd b that, I have rD 1&a. tt l@ks b tt. llk! ltrs gpt to E a8 feet
but if sc'€body feels differentl:r, sr€g€st lt. I buldt rrcue r[proral auorlrg
the tcary dluty firvDertirn dringle ln place of tlE 6ilar th.lcs. Berythlng
else, tl= high rof llne. llhe 48, $hltever lergth carory stDuld bE+tlE original
lengti of the butlding.
Corrcilrran Johnsdi: lbu.bott the Ul B?
&l,Elltl,.n byt3 lry rtotiqr srld b iaep ttD lil f!ct, the htgh roofr tle 18
foot canqry .rd aUow tIE to dr.tEe tlE dtirqlca.
lt!:ror Or'Jel: ls there . slItt?
6wrl!'an l{orh'an: Secord.
Owcllran Jotrrsm ! lttr. rtt ruc *ry lulrrr D l:meal ry m tfie Ljl !ret. lb E
ln a bdldtirg thatrs 309 f@t 1dB ard thlr tr ttatr srtr.rE , dptts tlrirl@, ts 12 f@t blgEer G rDt. lt Gcrt€ to be ! roallSt rlror rovu tf tlc.v
can be trore ecorudcally vlable ard tbtr fran:hla E rts lt tJi.t E!,, t UdnIE dloutd be &le to llv€ sttJl tbat tatl:r ttun gotnE tD tlr &t!tl ol rhtt E
otlglnall3r rfrrorred becaue tfr.t E ctgtHlly Tfirova ngnrt r rlrlc lot mre&trlId.
6rcllr,m Bolts Erre tallfrE &drt tallt of ttD brtfdhg t tttnk. ttulre
foot ge trrt3htas lnto t.le. tf tftg slt to coe badr Jd Ey E cm tDerdtlrt rtdle!, btter dolrE thtr vtth lt' ltr lnt r.!td.
CbrrEllr'ln Jotyrcm: ltU lf ttEy dbrtt hllil tlE bdfdhg et alll thrn s &nrt
hlve ary vahE. :i
owcllrrn 8o1t: Ih.tt! trE. ![rrtr a !n qtElo.
75
.City @ucll t&ettrg - f.sr'ber 18; fS9
I
:
Cfty 6r,EtI t€etirg - fcgtber 18, 1989
OrrElf&an Bo:t s 81.1, a€gest !'l r€n.lrstt to ttr.t.
Ourllran Johnssr: f.eave the 12 foot. tert tlEr', deci& r.h.tt I ecusttcall:rviable.
OrrEllran Johnssr: lnal thatra an optlm if tletr finarcirg ard thelr
frarchisee Ea:E !p take a jrrr,p.
6|'Eitr.n bl't: libU I rDuld arggest to ralDe *r.t tnel, srt to do ls 9o bakto tlE HRA ard see how rflch rcey ttry can get. ItDtia rrhat t]n people tn thelf.rtr€nt hrilding kept dofns.
qla!'ton Johnson: Ifb dtrlrt tave any aesigtarce ot}er than the aEraight q-clal
asaesgrant.
Ha:,or Gr'!iel: Brplaln to F.e oE rrore tlrre sith that lll feet.6tratEe. It.6 tlE IDoI area anl the rraln €ntrarte cordrg ln.ttrre ard ttEt I s lt?
It's tlp rain
ttrat cle ls ln
I
-l i
76
Eve l5rt.irger s lbatrs it.
ttayor Ch'del: I&at in dlollrrs &es ttrat 6rt brck?
lhrc ISnrirger: blryhly translat€d.
Ilalor Grdel: tbn rrrrrh per Trrrs g-g2
Eve lkdrger: trslt than 925.09 a sgu.re foot.
o.rcifrE t Jdlnson: f slngle stor-w area. td th.t.8 r&.t, Z feet I 1:l faet?
@trrlb,ur hrlo.,ar: If,ridt €rd le tln lil feet gotng b dr€ off oft
Eve terrrdrl.ger s tE east gral. rt eFtates lt back frqtr tln cslstlrt bururng.Itrd b tbie erd.
&lrllrran l$rl$.n 3 So as Uria tq, @\re[ &€et Elts, it dbrrld trrle bsr lil
. feet lorger. Iolrr re abowltg lt etprt-.
Eve br.lnger: ie6.
&tEttr.an lbrlurrr: $ tt -oul.at be drt to Ere.
Eee ltsrrdrger! llhat Ll fod 5 le an Grrc. tt Cnrld be 16. ttrs llt6.. Itrbuld red 15'8r. tE .rchiEct, rrde...
OllElh'rl lilrrhra: 8o ltrs abut 921 rquerc &et?
Er? Ihcdngei: IEll 25 rJ6.
Gucllrrur ,rohnsc.r 3 8o &out A:},rggg.fi. Ibcs an lnsurarr Er.r Glcrrhtor &lgrlre feet? IE could b (blrg lou- lnanrara.
6rrElh.n Bo:t: I canrt bellene tllEt O25rOgS.g0 te ktlltrg this proJect.
Cllton Jolrrsm: It l$'t. tt rEs ItE deslgrn corsideratlon. It Esnrt rn
ecorrrdc consideratisr. Llke ttsrb [Dlnts ort, tlte orly dtifferere le golrg to
happen rrn, lourre going to loe 12 feet off tlre builatlng. you, re golng to galn
12 fot in tle cvucctlrg Unk. l*En tfE corretlrq ltnk ls bullt, rtrl-h la anaisle conrrctlon, €ncloed, lEatd, ltrr golng to be 12 feet lorg. iou.re golng
to force us to 90 all the sy badc t o$r 6ntr!, Ib8pttlltty agaLn ard revlse
the plan.
&ucLtrta JotnBrl: 6t'|try lbspltal lty, are ttey leal?
Dve lSrrtdnger: ltra a Hlrasr ccI,oratlm.
btrcilran Jobvrean: tutts r&.t t thoqht.
OotEllt'an Bolt s IEll I lgrce th!t, I .rrre do'rrt srt to b ln ttc posltlan of
designing pur bullding for lou trrt tiat'a epar€ntL!, rirat Erre ln hre. tftte 6l'rll aeerrs to $lnk that E can gEt rld of tlp 12 feet lrd ltrs rDt !n
ecourdc lssue, tlen pt tlE lh.kes bck cn ard ttke pur 12 feet off.
brnEiban Jotnadr: ltor flre safeB, *ttdr la bettar tlE atskee u tlE
Iir,berLine?
6lri!',an b!t: rEU ltrs rlttlng rExt to tl- Olrcr ltrErtra. Dnrt talh to
rr€ about fire aafety.
orrElt trt Jofrrson: Itts lg feet asy. '!
Ctalton Jotnson: Ihe Dlnrcr 'lItE tre lr al.l 4xtnklerd.
Gucllran Bog: Rlght brt I ren Etse alrelQ, got odal $ahes.
Claytm JotImns Or a rrananrd rof Btll. 1tD t lDle tbatlc 1g a rmnrdroof. Itr. got a o'rt bullt qr rof top. !!r.t E! th ortEtnal iledgrn. lt ibrlt hlte a brildlrg tn ti,r tht br3 ! r@f UrlB r.3sltr thltt! Eot od.r
ah.)res. I donr t kpu *E!e lt 18. It rculd be trge.
Ourllran Jotrnrqr! lnutrs llhe aay b@re 1uu rtght foot hata, 1ur orgtrt to
itrop a turer m the bft .o tlPy b$ blrt.
laSor Ctrtlel: lte mly dr! lurrd Ey! rorld DES.bl.y b. 8t. Etcrtrt. OIdSt. llrbertrr.
6l,Ellrr'.n ablnsal: S tiErert ! tdlon or En l1or.
lalror clT.del s ittse lr a rotlor.
ol'EllEra UhlI.[! Dtd yur tll.d tt?
&rrllrtan Jotrrsqr: feU thg dtihrt rccept. rry *erutant.tt€ttlarrt. ."r
t6yor Ortdel: lblc a ftterdl!, rr.ttsrt.
T'
I buld !.ov! o'l
Ft!, OrElI ttetlng - ttsrerber 18, 1989
burilrtgr Jotnson: t tried a frlerdly averrttcnt.
@rcilrrut mrbst: Itat ss pur rerthsrt?
orrcilrran >: IE tlted to sttorten lt q, 12 feet.
O.,Ellrr.n Jotrrssr: yeah, I ms going b Frt the 1il feet brck. tEE[e Ere ,[thlrys yor rere askirg for.
Eve ttrrtdrrger: lctualll, tlnre t s anly 3 tlrlrgs. ,ltre fourth oc is aorethlrg IalDro*bed Gartr dr. rt's 3 thlrgs. oe is tlle roof. rte sElrd t8 trE dEkes.rrt tlte thlrd es tlr caropry.
orEllean Jdnrson: Iits Ent a camry. yo.r Ert e carDIry. ltrre in alrresr€nt.
!F j,rst don't lmor, tar Sorr can canole\rer the carop' out:- I*retner lt $es al,ftte ny qrt tlE 18 feet tr rDt...
rErb Brocr&erg: soreips tie canogyr s gorns to be bdlt. rE have to rcrk dtht'.:' tEltriers ard r think -r Brg m,rgtr... g, lt. tbEt €,!, to get tIE larr,lt row,E havg to keep vithin the brdget. oucrsiee E oanrt g6t a 6rauu3aErt tor
9lp bulldirg Fl1rdt. So Eire leked in unfortrrEtel:, f,ut trn satisfi€d th.t
ll'?_ryi,.rg t9 rtale_a good poject rd I ttrink ever1to31,'a-9-frq-o-U-tpg, *itf,lt 1n tJE etd. thfortunatel:, e've klnit of rr5 out oi tiri b rtEre re,ie cttlte jO arril rc.re ready to eacavate.
Eve- ltsrndnger: Itd like p d -: _Elrq tnre slrrre anerybody ta ref.Jrq tothe budget. rtEr the trdget Es estabuched for thls proJEct i ms rot errenlnr,olvd in it. I cEr€. in rtth a h€get that Es alreittliestabftetJ. - 6at,sterrlble to be iDrEst rtth lorr tut ltke rp trled to aa1, Eefore, a-iot-ot tf=eethirgs r.Ere rritten I t]re naaisscr oorlDration to t]E- rrchi tects rrd it Essuggested that it doesn t t go ln here. rhat lt d€8 ,Dt confont to thelrPrgtoEpe, etc., etc. anl there are ertain rrgritlee tfiat tlEy are rlanrdlng
Td &t:t Bnt- to sign off on arrit Eire trytrB to rake everl@r Uap;ry ird gettlE project gorng.
@rrEllr,an Jotnsar: b pu hapen to bve a letter fzot ttsr, tonlght to crorus, you bur say hereta Rdigeon, a lette[ sayir!g...
.. Clalton Jotnson: yeah, I h.ve a lctter bre. lEtve etcdd all of thelrcriterla on about 27 out of 30 ln teEr€ of stEcs m ttc btel brt tb qe le ttegabled rof .
Orrrtlfran lltrlsran: tS-Ea : 4ectal retlrE lt. abtrnson, e bad a rpechf
19etlq of the HrO to klnt of tElp out, becarrae I thlntr tt des klt 6f aredom to a hdget thing lere. tE had a q=clal reetlng to dlacuss oi to tarr.care of a coll.teral sltrJatlar. tn otlEr rctdg r.ore bak everytrrtrg ud rwu! ltargfd sd rralibe lrou ould srae r Es a rittle rsvous ttret nigrrt ato,rt rt.lsklrg a Lot of qlEstldls. tb, Eire klrd of rcaltry thlus Uait a llttle bltlrd it Bo.'ds to rre e ltttle btt llke ltra a trdget ihtry.- r.tlll tr'ren. t urglven a real cl.ear ittea of'*ltry tlcspltalter Srttee ttrtnlts ttnt tJrat 12 feet tg aonsideratlon ln t}e orrerarl dtesigrn of a 3gs so.e f@t tDtel. r conat rgpr.*Ere- the- ciEr galns t4t havlrq a lorger corrldor orectlry tlrle ttrlng verasrr.rc lDtel. Ird rather have rce hoEl hrt lt all tbes ktrd of, ff tf,e
City o|rEit tEettng - Itscgrber 18; 1989
I
78
HnA lE&r't lErped ottt wtttr trh.t @llaterrr &at, rc tDt€r. tf E donrt ahorten
It -bg 12 leet.rd do tlEs atakea, rD tDtel. E tD.r ,D botel. It t8 kint of abdget edng. lhatra r*Ere trn rtartlng to get 6rE r rrore narvo{r because *ratare n golrg to dlo rExt? &trt Erre gofns b bve lr 1nol.
Eve lEfidrEer: tre thirg &out l&les ttrorryh and pola le uryr rerrrrprodrrtlve are.o. lt=y do rot brlng tfp ie,renr- ln. FoIs ire uaatDEr.u!, Jd ltqr @r dcck any tntustry rtaldard G,r Erls, are rEed try drlldrerr.$a11 children. rdults don't use thsri go ltr6 a yery @Btry, €rIE;Blve dall.:,opratlonal €rIEnse.
onEiIr I'brhrsl ! Brt E lsE$ thlt *El tlrle flrat crre ln.
Dve
-
H'lTdngq: _dray, ht tne Radlasr ard tlE lrr'rgcr€nt lrcple rcre prdablyrct lrwolvd ln lt. I dontt bDrr. lt thlt tltle, fn ule gtl,rt fnary rtagee a'litdesig of tlle, tJrt,_In&rbl!, e rbt lmolvd ln tt bccarrse f ee-tlati planre'rler ras In afly of 1989. r bellerrc thlt Es poably gerented before ttratto:,ur.
Orrrihan tbrls'.n: fhlch cnd tr ttc 1m1 tn?
city CrEtl. tcettng - Essiber lg; !'9B9
Eve tttndtger: ft's ln tlp east Grd.
Corrl!',an l{crlcan: $r t}e naln ,rtrr r?
Eve ltsrrt.irger: East of the raln GntnrEe. ttr! beEHr tIE ellttlrrard a rcry tnilrting r.tpre that nlkmy lr. tra nlkay lcails tnto de-portlcr ard the pool 16 rdj&st to thrt area.
ol'rllran .rolmson: So ttr .olrtteast corrEr of tfu rrrln brlldtrE.
liyor Crrdcl: lE lrve a rotlcr cn {tu llq dtt e ftttdly mitlm.
GtlEllrrim Eo!t. f fttcrdly *riurt tilt brtrt b.crr t !.n - trr.
Eve lhrtdnger: Ihe pool tr rtght dbln Ee. Sa tb ldq,rr p rp-c. ltsrpu'\re got ltrep kltcEns. lource got trgtstlattqr ibat. ttnrve got cGrclseloclrs.
6|rclb,an tbrlgtsl: t thtnk tr.lbe lan tgDr raEtr t.rr otlnE &ot. tt JustEgl6 ratlEr netural lrd a lot of lt, ltt3 rS ,urt Url. de.r . tur get . dedJrd ttren lt Btalts to trt!. qr ard l,|atr r *l.t I-gGt rcrrlcit $out.
ourrlL'rn Bolt,: litsll - Darp ! Eotior, I tlrlr{3 rd f 6onrt thlnk ltrr besl
alsrdGd.
bulrdtuq
leby
& tnltrEfItr tP
E l!v! UE full f.rEttt bdfdrrE, €E firlt lrgtlr canrpv ad tl- lrlol-tllrE. I thtnk tIE o[rttm to urat tr lf tt prter, rd-theg atmrt lihebck to ttE Phrrrtr€ Grrrrtrrtsr.
Oitttfem JotruG,rs fi.!, Elt tfr H,gLr rof ltrl D UEtra o! Utt Et!e...
gorEfhln Bryt3 ,latrt-oc dEr. €E t. rD F6hr. S ttr orlgr b lt csedoh to 18 tb carory lrd lr! nrll rtld boto:t.
79
CiE,otrEil l€etfng - fcenber 18, 1989
O|rrEilnan Jottnaon: I€t r€ trl, tt*/ frlentL!, t€tiar.etrt...an rnfrlendtllt tr€nah'ent.
okay, I rrrolr€ E allor' tlgrr to knck off tlE 12 foot ard tbat tley harre r carDlrythat's, I'm rDt aue of Uc fength thotgh. lits Ent a crnotry.
Ha:,or Grdel: I think bulld a clrrDp!, to . portlan that rlll be a little rrore
ercessive ttEn that 1,1 feet. It rdght be 15 brt I tirtnk ltrb Ents a little
rbre than that.
ourllran lbrlst'an: l{16 ln t}E *reet ttEn.
€brlciL.an Johnson: Itntrg canoleverd eo therers 'D post at tle erd of it. IE
can't go too tuEh furttEr.
orrEi]Iian lbr!$an: I lsDr rhat that Erd rr6an6 tDe.
to fird out rfiat tlDse are.
Iangured roofs, f rr. going
&rcllrtan Jotnsm: So tJrat.s rr*' rrotlon ts tbat E hrve lt esterd at least 1{feet. A carDry exterdir€ at le.st I{ 6eet.
Eul Eauss: Is t}!at reasured frcrt ttp bufuing or fror, tlE c|Eb? l e Etalkirq about tlE canolevered here, rahat do :Du rrant to c!o\rer?
Itsve tEqr,irger: Itra 8 feet to ttE Bldmtk anl tlEn aotter G feet ort onerttc &ivm1t.
ourlban Jotnson: Itra 1g feet to ttE sidmlk, 8 feet rroes ttE sl&€Ik,
lDu're at 18 feet before you e\ren get to rfiere tlE crr ls so letra say a rrdnlrtrrrof oE car yidth sith the doors oIEn Eroaa tlE Frking lot rd ltt6 mt a ltryo.
Faul Eauas! So a carplever of !t l€a8t 1g feet belto d tfE orb llrc.
Ctalton Johnsfi: tEt Es tlE tntentlon of tlc rdesign.
OuEllrr'Jl Jotnsdr: Yeah. ltt t Fuld be the rrotian tlsr.
Ila1or Ctldel: 8i11, do pu ryt ttut?
ol,Eitr,rIr blt:
trytng b &.lb needs a secord. :lhatre orpletel!, @Nntrr to t&.t f Es
GrttEtlndr JotItsar: Yes, t kDr.
GlrElL'an Bogs tiEU r.lrc has ! s6rd. rts cln toE or thrt.
Orrcllrtur Bolt rrond, O.rEiltrgr llorlgtan Ecgded to aIXEove ltte rcrvltd
ardrltecturaL iletatk for Hoq)lt tlty Adtes lbtol to k€€p tlE lll feet ln tlrbdldirg, e1lprove tle tdgh roof, keep ttE aB f@t carqry Jd alfor dranglng b
ltin&erllre ahlrqles. Gurctlfrln E!t., GtlEllftrr mrht'Jr ad Orrcllmtrn
Dlrrler voted in Gavor. Gpcllnan Jdn an td tlayu Ctrrle rroEdt ln qlncltlon
lnl tlE rotlan c.rrled slth a vote of 3 to 2.
E\rG ttsrr,inger s 8o !,ou Just rlpEoveil shat?
8S
I
I-t
)
Ctty orrEtl ltettng - foerlber 18; 1989
lla:tor Crtdel: lt alprord bslcall3r ft rEhalt Crlngle, ttr htgh roof ad tfurerainlrg of ttr 12 foot.
&ucllm'.anr Dlrriler: frd UE GltDtry bas to be ag.
Ch]rtm Joln8on: frd tf e curtt & tlrat, E go back to pla'rdrE, rlght?
Ilapr Ctrrdel: Rlght.
6uclt'an Jotnson: G pu cornrlre o€ of tlEse 3 to aEk for reoulderatlon.t tlE rst OrrEll reetlrg.
@rltclL PREsEvraTIotts!
llalor Ctr,lel: ttrre golng to htt t Ee Or,Ell e.entltlols rol qulck. I'dItte to juet rtake l'ou arrue of ttr f,act Ur.t the StlE of Utreaota b.B taken rpositlve atep for or chil.dren try pastrB r.bat ls c.r ld the drrg fte aclrol
ard oark zdE rct. Ihlg law prorrld* tourtEr pnalttea fc tb* r.tD leU lrrt
qse drugs ln att arord rdr@l8 c Frks. In otbr rcrda, r&at tt ytu do rDr,
tlE tougher penafQr wlIl rean aryruc hOldtrg Or pUeaslrg a narcotlc drug,
cocairE, crackr opirr, G lEoltE, q, to 2g 3ea ln plror ail q 6 825g.Agg.g
f ire.
ourEihursl Dln.ler: hs8e3slon mUa ..
lral,or OTdcI: Iblaung G F8ses8lol. SelffnS a nucotlc dhrry ll q, to 25 lEar8ln priscr at6 A5SSr0SS.90 ftrc. l'd gld to e thlt tl-gtve t ken thlt to
alle\rlate rore of tioee [r$lgt's ylthtn Etrools.
ourrllran Jolnson: I'dl llke to ae r,lrat lttd co3t to gGt rae dgrra lrrt q, !torr prks a6vertisirq that.
la:ror Ctrdel: Sutte eoething c ould lot at. l5tll dtlecuas th.t btcr brtt Just Entd to potrt that ort to li,ll rrd t tDtnl ltrr . god PlqDeaf c r tluI &ould ra},. okay 8111, lbon vlUq qulekly.
ol'rilr'an Bo!t: Iib can carr.el th.t m ba@".e b gta tn Tll taltd abrrt tt.
Ia:,or Ctrldel: Fltcc ttuei.
(brEltr.n lqts lrdl llL b !d. to hle th.t rwlfibrd.
ouEllrursr dnlc8: idr ddrrt Elt ! rbrry qrt^lglqr?
ClrrElur.n Bolts ttll, ftr.t off t &ntt, ttlt t toal ln tL .taff t.trts,rtt an Eurab refl€ctlo of tl! Irtbllc Safotgr Grtl.3tott mtlcn tD thltr.aE bdre t havc to $ck vlth tt. l[! otbc qe lt, t qre rttD. lot of r&.t
tro.l .rd ltsrr E ld. trdl llhe to bre tbl! thlrg atfrurc.a klofly Tlttn but .Dt
bolng brc t donrt bDr r&at ttght I hane b ads fc lwrrtthrltfan.
rapr Grtrlel: ntdt. I leel tlttt th.trr tnD rd t abnrt ln r. dhetlG th.trt
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CITY OF
EH[IiIH[SSEN
I,IEII,IORANDUU
IO: Eousing antl Retlevelopnent Authority
FRO[: Todd Gerhardt, Assistant Bxecutive Director\G-
DATE: January 19, 1990
SUBJ: Architectural Changes for the Country Eospitality SuitesEotel
690 COULTER DHIVE. P.O, BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
:frour Todd cerhardt date dl December 15, 1989.
Plan dateal January 11, -1990.
At the December neeting, the ERA tabled action on this item untila decision was maile regarding the canopy. Attachnent *2 indicatesthe changes the Hotel group is proposing. The canopy has beenretained and an additional post has been added to support thecanopy as it extends over the entrance.
AN
an
Th
an
bu
T2
I . Irteno2. Site
othdt
EE
clb
ilat
fo
er conceln of the ERA rras the Darket value of the facilityhe loss of value by reducing the building by 12 feet.otel has entered into a minimum market vilue of $2.5 millionoth Clayton Johnson and the County Assessor estimate theing will be rorth $3+ mil.Lion when complete. Thelefore theot reduction that they are proposing rill not impact theassessment agreement the ERA has enteredl into t9ith the Hotelgroup. The $2.5 million as agreed upon does create enough incre-ment to pay off the special assessBents on the Eite over the nextthree years.
Staff roul.d recomnend approval of the rrchitectural changes forthe Country Eospitality Suites Eotel as presented oa.the drawingdated ,Ianuary 11, 1990.
Reconmendat i on
Attachment s
.t-5.
IIIEIIIORANDUI{
fO: Eousing and Redevelopment Authority
FROM: Sodd Gerhardt, Aasistant Execut,ive oirector fG
DAIE 3 December 15, 1989
SUBJ: Consitleration of Architectural Changes for the Country
Hospitality Suites Botel
Attached you will find a memo frorn Paul Kraussl Planning Director
for the City of Chanhassen, outlining the proposedl changes to the
country Eospitality suites hotel . Staff felt that due to the
number of changes that have occurred on the final plan, that the ERA
shouLil review the overall plans again and that they are con-
sistent with the architectural style that the ERA has
established.
Ihis issue will also be presented to the City Council at their
neeting on Monday, December 18, 1989. Staff will give a ver-
bal updlate regarding the City Council action on this iten. Staff
has also asked the developer to nail directly to each HRA member
the reviseal plans before Thursday nightra neeting.
If the ERA is in agreenent with the proposetl changes, staff roulil
recoEmendl that a net, motion be nadle to accept the proposett
changes .
Atta chments
I lleno fron PauI Nrausa dated Decenber 14, 1989.
EHINHISSEI[
,&rLl^;*/
CITY OF
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
T
CITY OF /2{
EH[[IH[EEEN
690 COULTER ORIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937't 9OO ' FAX (612) 937-5rcddn !' ciu r'inini:r"lcr
I,Itu'"Lw
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b $!mf.ri lo co m!s!r-,'
HEUORANDUU
SUBJ:
IO: Don Ashworth, City Hanager
FROII: Paul f,rauss, planning OirecAtQ?
DAIE: December 1{, 1989
Proposed Architectural Changes to the Country EoSuites Eotel
A-$-*..,ittirocouncr,
I7 - /!-fct
spitality
On Thursdlay, December 14, 1989, staff net with Dave Ee,n,ainger ofD.W. Eutt Consultants nho is working on final ptans for itrEcountry Eospitality suites Botel 1n chanhassen-. ur. aeloingerpresented staff with a package of architectural modificaiioi*rhich have been designed to iut*the costs of constiuciion. -- e"presented to staff, these urodifications include ctranges-io tleroofline of the building to go.+rith.a fulI-hip t"oi Evit". ratherthan the mansuered roof that hadl beeo originaify-;;"6;;;; achange from cedar shake. shingles to asphait gt,ii,gi."i-i".i""r orthe entrance canopies at the-front of .ihe builttiiq, ina-i-''decrease in size of the buililing by sone 12 a;a-i; f"rslh.staff indicatedl that we had serloui r€servations uittr-tf,es. pro-posals and berieve that the_changes we're or a na9nii"a.--t[it tr,"City Council should be asked to iuthorlre them di;;-a; ii;-issuance 9f-?ny building pernitB. Iodd:Gerharai, iepiesintfngthe ERA, indicated that-that group also rould be rniEreilia-rnreassessing the current plan. Coneequently, I have-s.teaui"a atine for I{r. Ee'minger to nake a shoit p."3i"t"[ion ti"iil-iityCouncil of tbese chinges.- Dge-.to the sigrt notice provided bythe developer,
-
plans carinot be 'raite availabre toi-rE"ie, uotirthe City Council'aeeting.L-:::j.'f:ir*.:-{,11*..!:..=::..\i-.l'r:._-,1<2.,.--,.,.-i_,i:lr..r-::J.--;-1
sone of-these ciiangea.are minor or through noaiftsrifins can bedesigned to have nininal .inpact- oD the-!uifafati"-;;p.;;";;;.The loss of sguare footage iesultslrou a-ainriishEi-irr.-'ii ttr.room around the pool building and-.teally does not have i-eicnifi-cant impact on the external appea'iance ot the uuiraing io-i6n9 ."landlscaping and exterior alte-p1ans are changea accor6faofv-Likeyise, staf f has rorked. with. the _applicanf a"-[;;;i;tii'i""tgna revised roof section that, rhire di?ierent rn "ppEiiin"!,-i"reasonably attractive aDal conaiatent rlth ottrer uiriiaiocs-i" tte_Centnl Business Distrlct. Eorever, the Loss ot gt ile-ifit igfes,detailing of architectural trie on ihe roof andt or itre "niiin."canopies, in ny opinion represents a slgnificant -aininisi;;.it otthe architectural guality of tbe buildting.
EhCrd-- --i"-J-kt*4i
!lr. Don Ashworth
December 111 , 19I9
Page 2
I have a funilanental problem with the process that is being
requesteil by the applicant
should feel an obligation
by thetural
ng tor!ent
sente
s igni
exPenbelie
can b
d
f
il
and approvetlicant architecitures are goi
es that the cu
y anal should no
ges which resulcceptable. Ifitectural packa
t conclude thatt in dininishedthe City Council
ge is acceptable or
d be directed to
Should a deter-
t is my opinion that the developer
onstruct the building that was pre-
.Itoccit
chanbea
arch
noilif ieil to be acceptable, staff shoul
autborize the building perurits accoldingly.nination be made that the plans have been significantly altered,it uould be my recommendation that the plans be returned to the
Planning Commission for re-approval. Todd Gerhardt has inforned
ne that the HRA would be reviewing these plans at their regularly
schetluled neeting on lhursilay.
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.),.C. DAIE: April 19, 1989 :
C.C. DAIE: May 8, 1989
CASE NO: 89-2 Site ptan
Prepared bys J. Olsen
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL: A. Prelininary PIat - Replat tots 1 anil 4, Block I. Chanhassen Irtall
B. Rezoniog a Portion of the CBD District
C. Site PIan Review for an 8rl Unit Eotel
rrocArroN: southeast corner of west zgth street anil Irlarket Brvd.'
APPLICANT: Bloonberg Conpanies, p.O. Box 100, Chanhassen
CITY OF
EHANHISEIi[
John Rice
630 Interchange Totder
Eighway 12 aE. CR 18l,linneapolis, MN 55426
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PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
AD'IACEIIT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
Truman Eowe & Associates
Mike Simon
520 Menilelssohn Avenueltinneapolis, lrlN 55427
CBG and BG
3.1 Acres
CBD - Chaahasaen Bank
CBD - Fillyrs
CBD - Clranhassen Dinner lheatre
BG - Vacant
Available to site.
Currently contains existing building,Bookefl on Claasics, All StiteInsurance, etc.
Counercial
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Country SuiEes HotelApril 19, 1989
Page 2
REFERRALS
City Engineer
Prelininary PIat
Attachnent l2
lhe applicant is proposing to construct an 84 unit hotel over twoexisting lots (LoE I and 4, Block I of Chanhassen trtall).Therefore, the applicant is required to replat the property toremove interior lot lines where the hotel is locateE. -The-appli-
cant is proposing to create Ewo lots, Lot I and 2, Block I aidlfive outlots (Outlots A, B, C, D and E). The proposedl sitecurrently has buildings ehich house Eooked on Claisics, AllstateInsurance, Animal Fair, etc. The proposed const.ruction of thehotel rri1l renove t.he building containing Eooked on Classics, A1lState Insurance and rill leave Ehe building containing Anima1I?it. The proposed hotel will be located 5n Lot 1, Biock t ofBloonberg Addition and the renaining buililing nilr be locat.ed onLoL 2, Block 1, Bloomberg Addition. -
The number of outlots are necessary due to Ehe types of inprove-Dents that wiLl be macle to Lhe site. The parking areas toi thesite rriLl be located approximately where Oirtlot i anit Out1ot Dare proposed. As part of negotiations for inprovements to thesite, the City.rrill be constructing the parkiig areas for use ofthe hotel and in front of the existing building on Lot 2, Blockl. In order for the City to make theie improv6nents, th; Citynust have control of those lots. When the City nakes the park.ingIot inprovenenls, the outl.ots nill be transferied to the City an6once the improvements are completeal the ownership of Outlots Aand D wilL be transferred back to the Bloonberg Conpanies.Outlots B and C will reoain to be uEilized as iccesi for both LotI (the hotel) and Lot 2 (the existing buildtings). Outlot E is aseven foot eide sCrip which is currently part of Lot l, Block l,Chanhassen MaIl ancl it sil1 be transferreil to the City to proviitethe 40 foot ride right of way necessary for West 78th Streit.
As a_part of the plat approval a portion of the existing righe ofray for West 78th Street rill be vacated and turned ovei to-theBloonberg Companies. The right-of-way is shown with the dottedlIine on AttachEent 13. Interior street anti utility easeoentgwill also be vacateal.
i-
APPTICABLE REGULATIONS
CBD a11or{s hotels as a permitted use. There are no setbacks,height requirements or rnaximurn lot. coverage. the minimum lot areais 101000 square feet. irith 100 feet slreet frontage and maxinum Iot.degth of 100 feet (Attachdent 11).
Country Suites EotelApril 19. 1989
Page 3
The proposed Lots I and 2, Block I meet the minimum area require-
ments for lots within the CBD District. Once the outlots are
reconveyedl to Bloonberg Companies, when improvenents to the siEes
are completed, Lots I and 2 sill have the required street fron-
tage.
RECOU!,IENDATION Preliminary Plat
Planning Staff recomarenals t.hat the Planning Conrnission adopt thefollowing motion:
'The Planning Counission reconmends approval of Preliuinary Plat
189-7 as shor,vn on the plat stampeil 'Received April lI, 1989' withthe following conditions:
1. The applicant receive vacation of the right-of-way aadl utility
easenents as shown on t,he preliminary plat.
2. Outlot A and D will be reconveyedl to Lots I andl 2, Block I,
once Ehe inprovemenEs to the site have been completed.'
3. All conditions of the site plan approval.
REZONING
The area betieeen the eesterly edge of Lot 4, chanhassen Ma1l is
zoned BG (Attached *4) The aclditional property which is shown aspart of Outlot A on the Bloonberg plat rras purchased by the City
from Bloomberg Companies for the construction of UarketBoulevard. Since that area is now going to become a part of thehotel siEe, the property should be rezoneil fron BG to CBD.Physically, the BG area is already separated from the renaining
BG district by uarket B1val.
RECOITI!.{ENDATION - Rezoning
lhe Planning Staff recomneodls t,hat the Planning Commission adoptthe following molion:
'The Planning Co&trlission recornoends approval of Rezoning ReguestI89-1.'
SITE PLAN
The applicant is proposing to develop an 84-roon hotel Iocated on2.1 acres zoned CDB. The Central Business District allorrs thehotel as a permitted use. The CDB district does not have speci-fic requireoents for setbacks or Iot coverage.
Ihe hotel will be located on the southeasterly portion of Lot 1,
Block l, Bloomberg Addilion as shorn as Parcel A on the site
plan. The parking area for the hoEel will be located on the
north andt wlst side of the hoEel . The site eill be serviceil off
)
of West 78th Street and Market Boulevarcl. The zoning ordinancereguires one parking space for each rental room or suite, plusone space for every two employees. Therefore, the hotel wiultt bereguired to have 88 parking spaces. The applicant is providing99 parking spaces. The site plan also shoiri that theri will b6seating for continental breakfast. Ihe continental. breakfastuill only be for the people using the hoteL. Therefore, adtdi-
-li?l.l-p::Iins would not be requlred. rhe heighr of rhe uoirainewrrl be three stories at 34 feet. the trash enclosure for thesite is located in the southwest corner of the troter ina-ilitr uefully enclosedl. Any roof-top equipuent will be ,eeoiied i;-L"gcreened.
The.apglicant is proposing two ',a1l signs. They ri1l be localedon the north and south side. the wal1 signs ari re square-ieetand 37 square feet, which neets the requiiement" "i in'"-.iai-oance.. The applicant is also proposing one pylon sign *hi-h hasa height of 20 feet and a.sguaie iootaie or -6i feet.' rtre-zoningordinance only arloes.a 64 Jquare foot"sign. rtr.i.i"r.l-ti!'sign nust be reduced in size to oeet. ttre 5a "eo;i.-i"ot',.qiir.-ilit!:. The pylon-sign is also shown to have i changeable ietterano Drlce area belo, the Country Suit,es sign. This-wou1d not bepermitted unless the total area-of both siins .q;ii 6{-iq";i"feet. DeLails of .he sign and elevaiions 6t rt6 uriiai"g=-"i.attached on the back of ihe report arong t ith i.ar..a-..iies - otthe site p1an.
Lantlscapinq
Country Suites HotelApril 19, 1989
Page 4
3he last page of the set o
he plantings ssouth of thealso proposinte. The appli
et.ween the vehThe.proposed Iandscaping p
ordlDance.
plans contains the landscaping plan.oitn along 9{est 7 8th Street and trtlrketoeel are existing plantings. Theextensive interior lands-aping aroundant is adcling a tt o-foot heilge-tocular area and abutting righ[-of-way.an meet.s the requireeents of the
Several o
Boulvard
applicantthe hotel
be locate
fr
andissidb
t
h
h
s
ciI
RECOUTI{ENDATION Site Plan
Staff recommends
notion s
the Planning Cornurission to adopE the following
rrhe Pranning coonrission reconmends apgroval of site pran lilg-2 asehoun on site plan dated 'March 15, 1oil9' rittr ttre -ioir"ri"g
""n-dlitions:
1. Pinal Plat approval of the plat for Bloonberg Addition.
2. The sigD facing on the pylon sign shall not exceed 6{ squarefeet.
)
5
country suites BotelApril 19, I989
Page 5
3.
6.
8.
Revised plans shal.l be submitteil for approval thaE addlressthe conditions and discussion contained-in this staff report.
An erosion control plan shall be includled in the subnittals.
A11 side slopes greater than 3:1 will need erosion
Protection.
A typical section of roadway anil parking lot is to be shownon the plans for apploval rith concret,e curb and gutterthroughout the site.
The applicant will be entering into a development contract riththe City for phased development of the site including thenecessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper-installation of these improvenents.
All privat.ely owned underground utilities, i.e. telephone,gas, electric, shall be relocateil outside of the building paclat the time of construction.
7
9 A1l roaclway and walkways disturbed by the construction shallbe replaced in sufficient proportion to provide a stabilizedpavenent area.
10. All conditions of preliminary ptat approval .
ATTACSMENTS
Zoning Code.I
2
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. Memo f. West 7
. BG DiS. Applic
. Plan R
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CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY ]-'1 , l99g
Chairr,an Conrad called the F,eeting to order at 7:35 p.F,..
MEMBERS PRESENT:
and Joan Ahlens
Steve EF'r,ings, Annette EIIson, Ladd Conrad, Brian Batzli
HEMBERS ABSENT: Tittr Erhart and Jir', Wililernuth
STAFF PRESENT: PauI Krauss, Planning Director; Jo
Planneri SharF'in Al-Jaff, Planning Intern and Dave
Ann OLsen, Sen i or
Hen,pel, Senior Eng i neer
PUBLIC HEARING:
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 3.9 ACRES INTO ONE SINGLE FAMILY LOT OF I.49
AND AN OUTLOT OF 2.42 ACRES ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED AT 2150
CRESTVIEVI LANE, THOMAS AND JEAN SHIVLEY.
Public Present:
Address
Thorras anil Jean ShivelY
Hr .,,/Mr s . Michael Schultz
Don Ke 1I !'Dick vandenberg
Dick Her rboldt
Ur ./Mrs. Sar', Mancino
Krauss: Mr. Chairn,an,
there I s a long prlvate
Appl icant
AppI i can t
2081 West 65th street
6474 Murral, Hill Road
6464 Mrrrray HilI Road
6620 Galpin Blvd.
conrad: Just one general qrrestion before we open it rrp to the public. wh!'
do yorr think itts critical to have that access going to the south? we see
the Land, the property do$rn there below it. Is it ],our genetal feeling
that there's no good way for internal circulation within that parcel itself
to have two accesses? Is that rearll' the bottoF' rine?
Krauss: Prett!, rr,uch tlr. Chairp,an. what it boils down to is werve got a
great unknown down he!:e. There's soFre very large ownership. ollr
Con,prehensive PIan, itrs been in there for a whlle, shows sor,e sort of an
extension of Lake Luc!, Roail frorr that general area but that Leaves a
conslderable area in the r',iddle to serve. what we found is that werve got
a series of cul-de-sacs that keeP coFring off of the highwalts in town.
UltiF,atel:, we Fra}, prefer to see several of thenr connected. At this Point
werre not lr'aking-that recor',rtenalation. Werre just sir',ple trying to provide
an option for serving that Propert!' since there is no road ln that vicinity
right now.
Conrad: So within this Paul,
accesses?
vou r re just itoing...going to have two
we rra:, rrel I have another
tlr iveway that winds it's
access in there.
wa], back in here.
Ri ght noif
It
Nan,e
PauI Krauss presented the staff report.
serves I believe two horres. The driveway itself nra! not be an ideallocation for a pubJ.ic street because there's quite a bit of property backin there- At son,e point we n,ay have sor,ething that loops ttriougtr. If the:,ultirratellt clecide that it should terr'inate on the site...road to the south-.
Conrad: ...is it staffts opinion that this is too long a cul-de-sac...
Krauss: l{e are concerned with that and werrethe street, the way it sits right now, yes.concerned irith the qrrality of
conrad! with that vJerll open it up for public corrrt'.ents. rf the applicantis here and would like to Frake a coFrrtr€nt; werd sure like the appli-lnt tostart off and give us their perspective.
Jean Shivel:r: I.leF,ber s of the Corm,ission, Fr! narr€ is Jean Sh ivellr.shiveryrs Addition and r guess r worrld ask the coro,ission at thli point tokeep in n,ind son,e of the factors that I'{r. Krauss has raised. I woirld ask
]rou to consider the fact that the propert!' to the south is crrrrentlyoutside of the MUSA tine. The propert:' to the south is under privaieownership hrith no in,r'rediate ptans for developrtrent and I also a-sk lrou toconsider the recon,rrendation n,ade f ror', n,v petlpective. The partic-ular pieceof propert], we're talking aborrt here is'4 acres. The subdivision thatisbeing reqrrested is at the reqrrest of the prtrchaserrs of the propert:, forfinancing prlrposes onl]r. So far in the discussion of this suldivision,the:rrve been asked to dedicate propert]r for a tra iI. Thelrrve been asked todedicate propertl, for a cul-de-sac to serve the potential developr,ent ofthe outlot and now in addition the]rrre being asked to dedicate piopertl, forsor'e speculative, potential developnrent of propertlr to the soutir. -So ihatbegan as a 4 acre parcer is gradually dwindring down to a parcel of a rruchsF'aller size. r would ask the connrission to keep in rtind that at thispoint all of the propert], is being prrrchased U1, one purchaser. It is notbeing purchased for specrrlation or for developn,ent. I guess m1, concern is,rrost particurarry with the second part of the recorrnrendt ti on wilch is theextension of the proposed right-of-wa], dedication to the south. Irecognize that because of the srrbdivision and regardress of the intent oftbe purchasers, there have to be provisions nrade by the Cit], to serve theoutlet in the event there is developn,ent there and it's r',y irnderstanding,though I don't intend to speak for lhe purchasers, that tiel, donit objeiito the first part of the road dedication. r worrld arso ask vou to ke6p innind that as long as that propert:, is in the ownership of a iingle faF,iL]r,that is under their contror. However, the concern that r have ii with th6extension of the right-of-wa:r to the south rrhich is to serve propert:, thatI donrt own and the:t wonit own. The potentLal is that the Cily on i-t's ownand sor,etirr,e in the futrlre if there is deveropnrent to the south coulilunilaterally have the absolute right under those easeF,ent agreeF,ents to puta road throrrgh their backyard. I don't know if any of 1,ou have visited thepropert]t and what doesn,t show on lrorrr r',ap there is thal out of the 4acres, appoxin,ately 2 of it is wooded and it is the 2 acres around theoutside of the propert]r so that the extension that theyrre talking about tothe-south is through one of the r'ost attractive portions of the piopertl'. rdonrt like to basicall], oppose a request withorrt- at least considlriig s6r,ealternatives. It seeF,s to n,e even Ur. Krauss has recognized thepossibilit:, of the extension of Lake Luc:, Road ot t would srrggest another
Planning Cor',p,ission Meeting
January 17, ]-99A - Page 2
Pl.anning Corru.'i ss i on Meeting
January 17, l99g - Page 3
alternative and that is, in the event that the outlot is to be developed in
the futrrre, whoever would be r,aking those plans would once again have to
con'e back to the Planning Cor,r',ission and it wollld seeF, to F,e F,uch n,ore
appropriate at that tirte, if the extension to the south is neetled either
for the developr,ent of the outlot or for developr'ent of the ProPert], to the
56rrth1 that ]rou could deal with a developer and r,ake those arrangeF'ents. I
believe that they have acknowleclged that the], don't know if the docuFrent
that lrou have in front of you is the best location for that extension to
the south. Itrs irrrpossible to tel} and to the best of tty knowledge, there
are absolutely no developrr,ent plans blr the current oirner of the Property.
I:], serious concern is that I knosr governFrent can not take private land fror,
a- private citizen without corr,pensation. M:t concern ls that in the event
down the road, if this entire dedication goes through, the Citl' once again
could unilaterally Put a road through the Iandosnerrs back:tard destro:'ing
antl dlp,inishing the varue of that piece of ProPert:' substantiarly and the
Landowners would have no control anil no recourse and as a Iaw1'er, that
situation n,akes Fre extrerr'el], lrnconrf ottable. I think we can serve both the
purposes of the cit:, and th- purposes of the landowner b1' allowing the
dedication of the right-of-wal' to serve the outlot and leaving the
extension to the south when ever!,one involved tl65 6 rrrrch better idea of
what the:, are intending to service. I would also suggest in reference to
the cul-Ee-sacs along bn t17, I believe the reason for a great nur',ber of
those is the fact th;t all of those proPerties back up to the interrrediate
school so unless the:r irant roads going through their football fields, there
is a verl, logical reason for it. Are there an!' questions?
Don KeIl!': Hi. Itn, Don Kelly and I live at 268L west 65th street. Yourve
got the advantage over I\e because !'ou've got 2 naP'e tags ' Are ltou l'lr 'Conrad? Okay. Brian Batzli is not here?
Conrad: SoF,et ir,es not.
EIlson: That's Br ian.
Don Kellys Okalt, so Jir, wilderr.rrth is not here?
EIIson: Right.
Don Ke11!,: Alright. I think ltou rrere here before when Ir votl w€r€ on the
clt]' council rrerenrt y6u when we talkecl about the path before?
conrad: Irve been here.
Don Kell:r: Yout ve been here when we talked about the Path before' I caFre
when CurL Ostronr was developing the ProPert:'/ just north of the ProPert]'
hretre discussing tonight and requested that a Path be included fronr West
65th street through that develoP,r,ent to the intermediate school. At the
tir,e the school wisn't oPen but it seerted Possible that we would be
lnterested in having a plttr. Fortunately the City agreed and lncluded in
the developFrent agreeFrent was a tequirenent that the develoPer incluile a
path. The- developer failed to include those easetrrents on the deeds that
iere filed. Cit:, staff faited to monitor his perforrr,ance in that regard.
As a resul.t, no path was provided fror, West 65th Street through to the
Planning CoFo,ission Meeting
Januar]' 17, L99q - Page 4
Conrad: Good cor,rtrents. Just for clarification. Where nouldsee a trail put ln? Could you go up there? Obviously lrourreabout where it,s slotted for nor^r.
internrediate school. The proposal lroutre looking at includes an easettrentalong the north side of that propert:, which goes fror, the interr,ediateschoor to the east edge of the property and therers a suggestion in therethat this prettl, r,uch solves the whole problenr because nor all we need todo is chat with the Kelly's or the Boudriers and get an easeFrent through toWest 65th Street. Oka]r. The top horizontal part of that red line is 6nWest 65th Street. The bottoF, horizontal part of the red line is the
€dserrr€nt thatrs being discussed in the shivtey Addition. The vertical pattof that red line is an easen,ent that is roughl1, in the area of the propirtl,line between r,!' propert:' and Lot 5 of the pieaiant HilI subdlvision. ine '
people that or,rn Lot 5 are not going to voluntarily provide that easeF,ent.rt frustrates rne to think that after spending a lot-of tir,e trylng to pranahead and to n,ake sul-e that we have appropriate trail easertrenti, ihat lheCity should c or',e back and say teII bo!r, did re ever blow it but bo:, it,s agood thing lrou own that propert!, and we can get the easenent f r or., -11ou. Asa p,atter of fact, they didn't even contact r,e in this regaral. rhi3 wassorrething that r learned h,hen r carled to find out that ias going on. Thecorner of nrl' house is 24 feet f r orrr that property line. r haie a goocl sizedrot but n,y house happens to be in that corner. rf we put a pedesfrianeaser,ent in there, rre're rooking at having that easer,,eit within 14 feet ofthe corner -of m1z horrse. That ii ttre only area in nry lot where we have anyprivac1,. That is not the t]rpe of an arrangeF,ent thit f laa fropeJ ;;;; ;;i"to provide a trail easeFrent for the people on F,], street to the school . Itwould be satisfactorlz for nry far,iry Lecause we iourd trot frorr the cornerof our 1ot down the easenrent and get to the school. But r.r, not interestedonlf i.n providing son,ething for n,]r fanily. I rIt, interested in providingsor,ething for our neighbors and the peop-le with lrounger childrin that F-ia!,be r',oving into those houses as other people .o.re-awa!. rf ryerre going t6irritate. sor,ebod!, by conderr,ning land ior-a trair easir,ent, it irouLd seer,lrore rogicar to put the easerrent on the boundary line between Lots 5 andLots 6. Eror, West 65th to tturra:' HiIL Road and then go through the watertohrer property. so irhat nerre looking at is a req.resi for a irail ease!.entthat-goes fron, the school to nowhere. The other €hing that I noticesitting here this evening. is when the:' talk about the - r itni-of-way easer,entthe city does have an ordinance restricting cul-de-su" sf.e"ts to 500 feet.so crestview is arread!, a non-con f orrr,i ng street. Extending it further inioa subdivision would rengthen it. The suggestion that the ioad to the southis to serve ttte propert:, to the south ls-lind of silly beciirse obviouslythe-only r,anner in which that road would be extended iould be to loop ii.So if they're concerned about serving the propert:r to the south, it i,akesFrore sense to consider a cul-de-sac street cor,ing-north frorr the south f r orrra street that goes through that subdivision. Think you.
you
not
like torl ld
Don Ke 1I:,: M:,body. Our neig
easeF,ent takenthen the trail
nrarked on therethe street and
wife suggested that the trail sould go in here over her deadhbors here would have the sarre reaction to having it. Thisb:, condeFnation. If the City is going to do that approach,151sugh here t ould be rtore convenient. The trail ttrlt,slooks kind of convenient because it goes down the end ofthen up the propert!, line. In actualitlr, that street is,
Plarining Con,n,ission Meeting
Januar:, L7, !999 - Page 5
that again is an o1d r.ap. That street ends in a cul-de-sac now. lta]rbe 5
years ago we dedicated ProPert!, to the cul-de-sac and the street nas
vacated to the west of the propert], so that the street does not in fact go
throlrgh to the erest ProPerty line. There is a utility easeF,ent that goes
along to the intersection of m!, Iot and Lot 5 and then therers a utilitlt
easeFrent that goes between Lot 4 and Lot 5. But what would actuall1t
happen, unless we actuall]t went through and took out trees and put in
woodchips and so forth to rr,ake the trail follot that, that would actually
happen rre would have people vatking up our drivewal' and across the lawn and
taLX to the back lot. It wouldn't be ver:, practical that way. A trall
going through the other wa!, to the street would tentl to have people go down
ahe atreet and alown the trail the eta]' $,e would intend to'
Conrad: Oka!, thanks. Other eor,Fents.
Dick Vandenberg: I'F, Dick Vandenberg, 6474 Murral' HitI Road. My lot is
Lot 4 that abuts the shivell' proPerty on the Murra]' Hill cur-de-sac so r
worrld be affected b1' this proposed traiL as well. For sorre reason I
thorrght the t[ai] issue was dead back there but itts not. I have the saF,e
probien, Mr. KeIl:' has in that the trail would cor"e within 20 feet' of the
iack of rrlt house and I have a lot of glass back there and it would reall1z
infringe -upon our privacy. r think that tyPe of thing is fairly intrusive'
not to r,enaion being a securitlt risk as long as itrs oPen to the general
public. So I r,rould object to that. I would nake one cop.rrrr€ht. The trail
is it exists now inforn,alll, goes betlreen 5 and 6. I believe the Kell!'r s
children .ug 161eugh there and other kids do. we have children cutting
through the back oi our yard too. I got't object to,that-. what r do
objec[ g6 1[er:gh is son,elhing in writing and ln the ].aw that sa!'s that the
pr,6ti. has access to that. I donrt F'ind neighborhood children going to-school throrrgh our yard but I do object to a legal right for the pubLic to
go back there. rt'a highl]' intrusive and r strongly object to it'
Dick Herrboldt: Counc i ln err,ber s , Itr:t narte is Dick Herrboldt anil I live at
6464 Murralz HiIl Road. Right next door to the last speaker.
En,n,ings: which I ot?
Dick Herrboldt: NuF,ber 3. And I feel as oPposed to the trall as Dick iloes
for a variett, of reasons. The first one being that I think we have an
environn,ent.-l issoe here which nobody has really talked about. That is
that therers a lot of trees in that area rrhich would obviously have to coFre
ilown if vourre going to put a 6 foot wide trail through that area. At the
present iirr,e we-hav6 several deaal trees in our backyard that $erre leaving
ihere for the purpose of suPPorting an abundance of birds, including
woodpeckers ani virious ottrei species of birds and if anY of you would like
to c6r.,e over and took at F,y trees with their 10 foot long trails of
woodpecker bites in them, i'd be glad to show it to !'ou.. The security
issu6 is a r',a jor issue for F,e also. I car.e fror, South tlinneapolis where r',1'
hor,e was burglarized 4 tinres. The reason wh]' it e'as burgLarized was
because of it was accessed to the back of the house and I think b}, opening
up a private trail to this sdrrr€ dr€il1 Oetre going to cause the sar,e sort of
pioUter',s. Therer s also a danger to PeoPIe walking through that area. Itts
ver1, wooded. Therers a lot of old trees and like I just stated, therers
Planning Con,rr, i ss ion }{eeting
Januar], L7, ]-99g - Page 6
dead trees in r',y back yard. r can inragine people wandering off the path ina windstorrn and having branches farr donn on their heads. Therer s a lot ofdead tin,ber back there at the present tirrre and I expect to keep it thatwa!r. The other reason is there's also a water probterr back there. AII ofthe water in that cul-de-sac drains into r,y backyard. The Minnetonkawatershed people built a dyke back there with a rarge culvert so the i{ater,everytir,e it rains, colLects in rr,y yard and this waier often extends overlnto the area hrhere :rouire proposing to put the path. So I think thatrs al,ajor problenr that we need to look at. So Irr\ ver1, opposed to the idea ofputting the path through for those reasons. Would like lrou to considerthert,. Thank ]rou.
ilichael schultz: MeF,bers of the cor",rr,ission. rrr, afraid Irr, the guiltl,part:, r.rho started this barr rolting. r rrr the prrrchasers of the shivetv totand I guess as long as werre on the trail, I winted to sa:, a few thingiabout that. I was at the Park Board nreeting where that tiail was disiussedand the r'essage r was getting is that the trail was sorrething the neighborswanted and itrs been educational tonight to learn that ever!, neighbor-whofelt the need to coFr€ orrt, has opposed the trail. we would oppo6. it forrranlt of the sar'e reasons. sor,e of t hert" sel f i sh. sonre of them not. Theprivacy issrre is a concern of ours. Securit], is a concern of ours. Ther,ajor concern is, the ir,pression r got at thL park Board rteeting was ttritthis trair was used and that we were just sirrrpry putting an easerrent in sokids wourd not have to break the law f.o use ti:e- tiai1. since that F,eetingrive seen hrhat was srrpposedrlr the trair and there is no trail there so tospeak. Therers no path that is beaten through the rf,oods. rtrs notexisting and if an!'thing, apparentl!, the kidi are using itre-Strivetlr, s back]'ard rather than the trees and we don,t have any opposltion to kid3 usingthe woods or even the back !,ard to get to school Uu[ we would oppose aforn,al taking prrrsuant to the split that we,re proposing for thi-s trair andespecially in light of sor,e of the opposition. -We-wouli join that.r wanted to echo Sorrr€_of the things that Jean shivery sai6 about theproposed roads. r think in ternrs of the cu1-de-sac, the proposar 1(a), wedonrt have opposition to that. r think that r',akes sense.- rLrs true.'-wedonrt bave any intention of developing that rand but for purposes of thesubdivision r think there needs to be son,e access if that^was ever to bedone- and _we don't oppose that. The road to the south though is a realprobler, for us as purchasers. For one, that kind of an eaien,ent detractsfror, the value of the property significantl:, even if itrs never used. Itwould be one thing if the Citl' had a plan that this road rras going ioaccess a developrient or even a conceiveable develogrrent that was son,ehow lnthe works. Thatrs not the case. The owners of thi propert], have nointention of dividing, the current oirners of the p.oi".i1, t3 tne south haveno intention of dividing. Even if a deverogr,ent aid go in there, therers agreat guestion as to whether the road wourd be r,ore afpropriate at sor,eother point. SoFre other part of our propert], or s oFre otfrLr aajoiningpropert!'. There is no sense to putting the road in where the etanningConrr,ission has reconrrr,ended. It doesn'f go to anlr calculated developrt6nt.Itis ver:t speculative and if it didnrt hrrrt the value of the propertlr, tenouldnr t care but it detracts fror, the propert], significantly. It canlt besord- rt canrt be transferred without i potentiar buyer knoiing of that€as€Fr€ht and having a legitir,ate coneern for it. we would ask ihat if thecor,r',ission is going to approve the divislon, that they approve the
Pl airn i ng Conr',ission Heeting
Januar:, L7, L99A - Page 7
ctrl--de-sac 1(a) and that :,ou do reject the road to the south. And if
becon,es apgropriate at soFe tin,e in the future, then at that tinre it
be considered. rf yte have to conre back in and subdivide, then the
cor'n,ission will have itrs oPPortunity to requite a road to the south
that point. Thank you.
it
shorrld
at
Conrad: Other cor,r,ents?
Sarr Mancino: San, Mancino. ProPert:, owner to the south. We have no
intention to develop that at the rt orrrent. We bought the proPerty to buffer
ourselves and to lead a private lifest!'te back there so we have no pressing
desire to develop it. In fact, anything that reall]t Puts a gun to our head
to tr]' to develop it is son,ething that r,retd like to discorrrage. I think
that, as I understand itr the requirer,ent of subdividing right now does not
grant perF,ission to brrild on that outlot. Is that correct right now? That
[o luira on it would require another platting and another review? At that
tinrel r think it is appropriate that if you feel you still need the roail
€os€trr€rlt, then to address it at that tiF,e rather than at this tirte. I
guess that's about the end of it.
Conrad: Thank you. Other con,r'ents? Anything else?
Dick Vandenberg: Dick Vandenberg again froF, the Lot 4 on Murra:' Hill.
rronth or so ago r believe one of rh!' nelghbors granted an easeFrent or
donated land to the City so that Hurra]' HiII Road antl sor'e of the back,
Fialzbe perhaps 65th Street. Perhaps that was the intention. Anl,how, he
grintei an -easer',ent for access to the $ater toirer as well as the school
froperty for children to walk in. I believe a ualkwa:' is going to go
lhrough there so this proPosed walkway here r,alt be a redr:nilancy.
En'rrings: worrld you sa]t that again? where is this walkwa!' that you're
talking about now?
Dick vandenberg: r'rr Point it out to :'ou' Right here' rt was cit:'
property and I believe Gil Kreidberg bought it antl then donated Ig feet
it or whatever it was. You all know about that better than r do.
A
of
Err,ings: ...through
tower itself.there from the street all the back to the water
Dlck vandenberg: But it rras rr!' understanding that the lntention of that
easement along with access to the rrater toirer rras to have the neighborhooal
children to hive access to the schoolyard which would elfu.,inate this
proposed pathway here.
Don Ke1ly: That provides access fror, Ilurray Hill to the school. Is
doesnrt provide access from west 65th.
Dick vandenberg:Ne i ther
An!,th ing
does the proposed Pathway.
way
Conrad: oka:,.el se?
Planning Cono,ission ueeting
Januarlt l?, L99g - Page 8
Krauss: Yes.
Etmiings: And rrere aII these people given noticethat? Do the!' get a chance to hear public .inputthis stage. Is that designed to happen at this
Olsen: Itrs supposed to happen at the park and
Errur,ings: But when we, re r,apping sortrething
se€rrrS to Fre we ought to give thert, notice.outrageous.
a published notice and r,ailedjust planned to c orre tonight.
ac r ossI think
of their consideration ofor does that happen at
stage?
Rec.
have that the:r i re
1i ke thi s?
notice of this hearing
We didn I t know there
They tr !' to
hear ings
sorrebodyr s propert]r, it
that i s basical ly
Erm,ings. And so are there provisions that park and Recsuppose to give people notice before thelr take an actlon
Olsen: I believe so.
Resident: we rrere never notified.
Don Kel l Y:tonight and
was another
There was
so we all
F'eet i ng .
EFrrrings: r guess the probrer, here is that, we run into this time and tirr,eagain where Park and Rec is.rr,aking a recona,endation and trre:r, rite we, whorecorrrn end to the city council and terre not supposea to oveiiide what thewdo. we donrt have ai1, jrrrisdiction or.. what i-he1, ao bui it-;;:":";;;:='that this has been very poorllz considered by park and nec becaus" the,didnrt-have input frorr, the neighborhood and r donrt know ,n"[-w"-ca"-3oabout it except to put that on the record. I think it ought to go back toPark and_ Rec. I{}, understanding when r looked at this aeslgn was that the!,arread], had the €as€Fr€ht that's verticar on there and arl tn"y "a.J"J ,""'sonrething to connect it over to the schoor and thatrs, it seerr,s rear haLfbaked to r'e anyvra)r.
Conrad! And f rrr not sure what park and Recis role in public!!! Public invotved but the!'tre ,,ot n."".ruriIy holdinq puUticIike we do. rhis is realry-rhe forurrr t". p"uii.-r,Eiiiiq5;--\
Conrad: It. s one
Pr oper ty .
of those cases where nobody wants a trail across their
Eto'ings: Right. But !'ou know, if there r s a workable slrsterrr there. r,orexaF,ple, and I donrt know if this is the wa:/ it should Le resolved, but ifthis. alreatly exists. If it gets fror, this ioad into the sctroor propert:,and if therers already a cusiort" in the neighborhood wherebl, the kids downhere can cross here and cross here, f don'i know wh!, we haie to do that.
Etrrr,ings rrroved, Batzri seconded to close the pubric hearing. Arl voted infavor and the r.,otion carried. The public hearing was closed.
h'$'ings' Did arl of these peopre. park and Recreation took the action torecoF,rr,end the trail that werre discussing...is that right?
Planning Corrut ission Meeting
Januarl, L7 t L99g - Page 9
Ma:tbe ]tou do. Ma:tbe there are good reasons to do it.
Conrad: And ue donrt know enough.
Enur,ings: Right. But the!, ought to have their input when itrs being
planneal . When itrs being Put on a FraP I feel. But an!'wa]'. Letrs see,
wtttr tne road to the south off the cul-de-sac, the extension of Crestview
and the road that goes to g69 59rrth1 would all of the areas be buildable
that your re leaving?
Krauss: what we trietl to do is locate it so this is a buililable lot- If
lrou extend it, the center line of Crestview out across that PropertY, Yo!
wina up rrith an unbuildable piece of ground. It would.. -so what we did ls
ne used thls verlt large cul-de-sac and figured that we curve lt a }ittle
bit to the north. GeE then up that...and have a lot. But that presented a
problen, rrith Part of the right-of-waf is on Lot t' This part right here-andl the rest -of it, s on the outlot and since the only tir,e that ProPerty is
together is right nors before the subtlivision. This is the tirte that that
has to be obtained.
Enr,ings: Since this is an outlot thatrs being created, an ! shaped piece,
it,s been suggested here and it is correct isnrt it that before that rras
subdividecl , [efore it rrould be buildabler theyid have to cor,e back in here
again and ihat road to the sorrth could be required at that tine'
Krauss: yes sir. Thatr s correct, and we discussed that rrith ther,. The
concern that rre had with that iras a Fratter of tirt,ing. If the outlot is
platted first, prior to developFrent being proposed on the Property to the
louth, that uorks fine. If itts the other wa1' around, then Ue have a lot
that werd have no connection to or we lose an oPtion for shen that lot to
g5s ssrrth ilevelops.
Batzli: Except the lot to the south lsn't in the uusA line currently.
Krauss: That I s correct.
Erurrings: One speaker r,entioned a 5gg foot r,ax irt urr, length on cul-de-sacs.
I rtr, not far',iliar with that. Is that accurate?
Krauss: No. The Code ls sor,ewhat open ended. It expresses desire to
lirt it the length of cul-de-sac but is not sPecific.
Conrad: It used to be. It used to be 5gg feet and the Citft itas real
unconfortable with cul-de-sacs. I thlnk over the last couPle ]'earsptrifosoptry has changed a little blt. I think emergency gerviceg is still
not real lonfortable rrlth Iong cu1-de-sacs and I thlnk they generall!, are a
hazard. If ire feel rre are protecting the citizens and providing services
that allot errrergency vehlCleS to access their hOuSe and fire, StorFS, what
have :rou. Therai s I valid case for having a second access on a long
street.
F[Trings: Do we know how long this one ls? Hoe long it would be. If that
were aII the walz in, how far would that cfl-de-sac be?
Planning Conrr,ission Meeting
Januar:, L7, 1990 - Page 10
Don KeI l !':there.
at least anotherBatzli: Adding
Krauss: Dave
Dave Hen,pel:
is scaling it off
Itrs approx ir'ateI!t
2gA feet?
now .
what?
r ight
right now and it would be anothertotal of roughl:' Lr2AO feet.
9gg feei to the end of the cul-de-sac
259 feet with the new cul-de-sac so a
Ertrrings: - Ordinarill' and in the past Irve alea:rs been for, I.ve alira:rssupported connecting these things or rnaking the connection over when wehave the opportunit:, to do it. I donrt se6 doing it in this case. Iguess r rr, persuaded that, the thing that bothers F,e about doing it r guessis that if the owner of-that piece tants to keep it arl together in piivateownership, r rrouldn'!t like to see a road going lhrough theie. r knol, thatat soF,e point there's, r rrouldn't like to see this r6ad. Having thisPlatted down, obviously nakes sense... Having this, r think that courd bea_rratter that gets artanged in the futrrre between the propert:, to the southlf and when it develops or shen the!' c or,e back in to piit'iiiat outlot.so r donrt have real strong feelings aborrt it but r tend to not sant toput, Ird support the plan not to put the road to the south.
conrad: Argutr'ents wilr be just as strong rrhen they cor,e back in to pratthe outlot.
Enlt!,ings: But then, I guess it seens to F,e, n alrbe weill knot son,ething thenthat lde don't know now. Ualrbe werll know UettLr whether re need it oi not.rf they- h,ere here platting the outrot, then rrd $ant it there notr. rf the:,were asking nohr to plat that whole piece into lots, Ild sa], Ietrs put theroad there. But if ever:rbod:'r s intention in that area, hoiever brief, isto keep that all in one piece, I don't see an], reason to put a road throughthe n,iddle of their backlzartt or even to give lne Cit1, the opportunity to 6oit. Essentiall:, it will allow access foi parking to tne so'uifr.
Conrad: More than likely when the new developnrent goesthele will be one, thelr rrontt irant to hook up. they'Ilcor',fortable keeping it rlthin their propert:r:
Evr,ings' And there Fra], be an adeguate rray to do that.
Conrad: Therefore, what :rourre suggesting here, and soflrst, what :rourre saying is you,v--kind of closed downgiving a secondar!' aciest to Lhis parcel.
Ettdr'ings: It doesn I t bother r,e on this onesay, in the past Irve alirays supported thefor ne. On this one it seeFrs reasonable.
donr t have anything else.
if that developsthe option of
as it has in the past. Like Iconnections. This is a changeI think thatrs all Irve got.
into the
pr obabl:,
south andfeel rea 1
I
Itrs 800 feet froli the beginning so werd add the length you see
be2
ther
say
thin
that
but
Planning Con,n,ission Meeting
JanuaI!, L7, l99g - Page 11
Eltson: I love this area over here. Itrs everltthing I think People Frove
into Chanhassen to see. AIl the wooded lots and the sPacious area. I
don't Iike thinking about future developn,ent either and I know that nobody
at this point has a plan to develoP either the south or the other one but I
don't think Ird be doing r.,y job if I didntt think r,ore than just at this
point. I think itrs up to us to look at Planning the future and that r,ight
ars fron, noi, but I'm J.eaning toirards leaving that access doirn
I agree with Steve about the trails. I donrt know that itis, I can
I90 on record. I think that was a bad ta:, to handle it. I donrt
can go and change and take out the trail recor,rt,endat ion because
ot, in r,], opinion r I donrt knoir. t'ta!,be Irve got our charter wrong
not a Planning Corutission issue as to irhere a trail goes although
I share everybod]rr s oPinion that if it's a neighborhood trail and the
neighborhood doesnrt want it there, then who's it helping. But I think
addiessing the outlot with both streets allotrs us to Plan for a1l the
possibiliiies. MaYbe arr the propert!7 owners right here have no plans to
levelop and then these will be the property orrners and we rronit have to
worr1, ibout it. It.s the next ones and the ones after that that Irn, nore
worried about so I'd suPPort the south access. At least getting it at this
poi.nt and hoping, because I said, I love this area, that it never does
Sevelop. eut f-ihinx we have to be prePared for what n'ight cor,e.
on the trail, I ytould Personally feel cor',fortabJ.e changing
Ellson:know,we do that?
5ye
tha tKI
's nit,s
Batzl i :
the Park
I guess
and Rec.
I don' t
I donrt
can
if we
Conrad: we can rr,ake son,e suggestlons.
Batzli: But now knowing what the entire trair s:TsteFr looks like in that
part of the woods, in this case. I don't knovJ that I can sa:' l'/es or no'
if there,s an alternative way to get throrrgh the water tolrer lot thatrs
reasonable and the kids know about it, I donrt know why we're trying to raFr
this one through. But I irould like to see it go back to Park anil Rec and
allow these pe5ple a chance to express thelr views to thettr. Or if that's
not Possible, at reast give then' prentl' of a'lvance notice as to when this
is giing to go in front of the City Council and so the City Council wil.I
have a ctrance to hear thenr. PauI, if you iranted to rrrake Outlot A buildable
rrithout subdividing further, at that tirne would :'ou be able to get the
southern portion through there?
Batzli:k now
HeFrpeI: No it is not. Itrs
wide street. I believe it's
can but Ird feel cor,fortable dolng it.
through a subd lv lsion
to builalable.10t and
r ight-of-wa1t.
Krauss: Yeah. You would still have to go
basically to change itrs status fror, outlot
tirte we could presur,abl]t ask for additional
Batzli: Malrbe Dave can answer this but is
standard, rr,i n in wr, standard road, uP through
portion that ]tou I re adding?
reques tat that
actuall!, narrower than our
around 20 foot wide.
Crestview currentl], uP to
where we're, uP through
a
thi s
tf'pical I], 31 foot
PI ann i ng
January
CoFm,ission Meeting
L7, l99g - Page 12
BatzLi: So itrs a narrow street but werre taking the fult 50 feet there?
Herrrpel: Thatrs correct.
Batzli: And !rh!, on this jog, lt seer,s
and then you want to jog lt back north
Hetrrpel: A slight alignr,ent change in
Batzli: That entire alignrrent shiftlot to rv,ake it bui ldable?
to jog to the south and then back
again?
there, l,es to line up.
is to get enough depth to that first
not as severe as it seems.as though itrs an S curvecould take place ins ide
Krauss: Yeah. Out in the field, it actual).y isThe cul-de-sac there is oversized and it appearsbut it would actually be a fairly n,ild curve thatthat cul-de-sac bubble.
Henpel: Leading into the cul-de-sac, yes.
Krauss: The cul-de-sac is nerrer. rt would be built to a different size.
Batzli: r guess r tarked about the trair. As far as extending crestvielr,r grress r worrrd be in favor of extending it to the rrest but not to thesouth for prett!' niuch the sarhe reason sfeve had. r just donrt see it ueir,gdeveloped and r think as and when it is, r think tha[ rsill be plenty ofopportunity to extend it southerly at that point.
Batzli: But itrs on
there?
a narrower road? Itrs still on the 2g foot road width
Ellson: Itrs grhen the sorrth is extendedlt con,es dorrn to .
that ]rourre in the qr:andry is what
Batzli: well, r don'it see the MUSA line changing in this area. Is.thispart of our request? This portion?
Krauss: Yes.
Conrad: A whole bunch of pressure.
Batzlis whatrs the status of that right now? Have we subr,itted that?
Krauss: Oh no. No.
Batzli: Do )'ou think itrs going to 9o through?
Conrad: It rriLl go through.
Krauss! .werre going to give you a schedule at our next n,eetlng next weekthat anticipates hopefull!' subF,itting it to the Metro councir 11, .rur1r.
Planning Cor,r.,ission Meeting
January 17, L99g - Page 13
Conrad: I think just for those of you who are here. Eor
been trying to figrrre out how the City grows and where i
now the Cit:r's rrrn out of land for a lot of things. Res
A lot of pressure. A tot of PeoPIe wanting to seII. A
eranting to con,e in. Theret s a real great case that can
you like developn'ent or not but therers a real great cas
enough land in Chanhassen for new residential. This is
chance wiII be Possibl!, serrered. werre close to the MUs
where 1'ou can sewer and therers a real good chance that
extentled so there wiII be aalditional sewer Possibilitiesadditional resiilential. anltthlng el se?
t
1
I
b
e
o
A
2 years werve
grows and r ightdential. being one.ot of developers
e tade, whetherthat therer s not
ne area that b:,
line which isthat area wilL be
rlh i ch r,eans
Ahrens: I agree erith Annette aborrt her reasons for approving the southerly
extension of crestvieir, or the right-of-wa:, to the south. I think that
there will be futrrre developI.,ent on there, I guess especially if the MUSA
line is noved. I think that, and I donrt have a problem with extentling
Crestview into the cul-de-sac area either. I rFr ln favor of that. The
trail easer,ent, I have s olt.e questions about that. First of aII, I realize
the neighbors sa!, thelt donrt have a probleF, irith the kids walking through
their bick yards or wherever the!' htant to walk right now but there r,ay in
the future be a hor,eowner that sa:,s I don I t irrant kids walking through rr,:t
:rard. Irr., going to Put up a fence and they're not going to be able to even
get to school . Mlt question is, how do the kids who live on Crestview Lane
get up to the school?
Dick Vandenberg: Through m:t back :tard. Therers a fence that runs between
Fr! lard and Boudrie's. The access to our cul-de-sac is through out of r.!'
ylr-. That's the tra], they cor,e... The!' take bikes through there. Therer s
a bo], on our cul-de-sac thatts the 8ar,e age as a couPle of bo]'/s on
Crestview and thatrs hoi, the!, get betrreen there antl I donrt obiect to that.
But if the trail goes through there, Irr', going to Put a fence up and they
gontt have access because the back of nrlt ProPert:t is 29 feet fror' that
trail..
Ahrens: Pau1, do you know if therei s an:t P1ans for connecting a trail for
the kids who live further south uP to the trail that..-
Batzli: No.
Krauss: Not to the best of Fr]t knohtledge, no.
Ahrens: so how do those kids get to school? I canrt figure that out.
Conrad: Take the bus probabl:t.
Ellson: I irouldnrt doubt it.
Dick Herrboldt: This trail does not go, thatis lt. Nothing leads to it
and t{hen youire on the trall.
Dick Vandenberg: Herers the rra:t the],
up through Shively's ilrivewal, here anil
here.
tlrpicaII!, cor,e fror", crestview. Right
then across this fence right into
Pl ann i ng
Janua r:,
Cor',rt ission Meeting
L7, L99g - Page 14
Ahrens:
for aII TO
the
me the trail would r,ake more sense if it connected to the southkids that lived on Crestview also.
Krauss: I reall]r donrt believe werre equipped to talk about the trail.Therers a lot of histor:' to it and it took place outside of the planning
cort'rr,ission context and it was through the park Board. There was originirrl,supposed to be a trail platted wlth I believe the !,turra}, HiIl subdivision -
and it was a requir€Fr€ht of approvar and for sor',e reaso-n it was neverobtained. Consequentl:, the land was so old and the owners who purchased itwerenrt aware of it and had a different feellng about it. r dontt want tosa!, it's a Park Boaril issue, that the planning cor,nission doesnrt have theright to co[rrrr€ht on it, but itts one thatrs difficutt for us to present to]'ou. There is a lot of historlr attached to it.
Ahrens: Thatrs what rt trying to understand. rrFr trlring to understanilthe reason lrh!' there's such a short trail tbere. rt doesn't seerr toconnect anYwhere or herp any of the other hortreowner s nho live so far awayand r think we dontt have the pover to change the park and Rects decisio-n.I agree but I'ni still trying to understand if there's an], other reason forthat...especially when there's a trail this close.
Krauss: againr f dontt know the historv onCouncil rrreetings concerning the sale of thewhere this hras discussed. The Cit!,r s ai{arethrorrgfi, would have to obtain the land fromaspect of the trail that,s being consideredthe Shivel:, propert:,. It wonrt go anlrlrhereobtain the rest of it.
Conrad: Oka]r, thanks. One question paul . In :rour F,ind the 9gg ot l,gggfoot cul-de-sac that rre potentially courd creat-, r didnrt see a corr.F,en t inhere fron the Fire Uarshall or^son,Ebody. In rr,an:, cases in new developr,entsire've gotten frorrr condrrents saf ing dang-rorrs situition. If tree fallslwhatever and I didnrt see that in here and IrFr trying to, F,y biggestconcern is for the neighborhood period. Are we ciea[ing'evLn a greater,are we creating a rish b1z having a 9gg foot crrl-de-sac?- especiaily for thepeop).e at the end. I havenrt been sotd one era]r or another on it. I thinkstaff has looked at it fror'" a future standpoin-t for connecting to the southand thatr s obviously what :rour job is. That's rrh:, lrourre the Cittr planneibut right now it does appear to ne, the south coul.d-develop indepindentl:..But a case could be n,ade that a 9gg or a LrA00 foot cuL_de-_sac llunacceptable. Especially nhen we had a standard of 509 feet in the pastand even that yre eere totally coF,fortable with. But r canrt react. rdonrt know if wetve got an unacceptable sltuition. Hy decision oncur-de-sacs or on the road to the south or not at thi-s point in tirr,e is dowe have an unacceptably long cur-de-sac and we do have io find a sorutionbased on city standards and good planning.
Krauss: well the rogic on cul-de-sac decisions doesn't change froF, issueto issue. public saietg, staff rrourd generarr!' p;;i;; t.-ii."; another rheansof ingress and egress so thelr can insure that- tirey can get in there intines of eFergenc!,. planning departr,ents, ptanniig staif typica).ty
it. Irve been at several Citvland up by the irater toyrerthat if this trait systenr wentMr. Kell]r. Right now the onl:,ls that portion of it that,s onunless the Ci t!, rrranages to
Planning Cor,rt ission ueeting
Januar:, L7. L990 - Page 15
recor,r,ends to connect streets if it's at all Possible. Ultir'atel], lrou
could have a scenario where you had county roads anil cul-de-sacs if everlt
developer did what the!, wanted to do. on the other hand, we donrt din,inlsh
the value of cul-de-sacs. The:trre ver!, attractive Places to live and they
certainll, have their place and occasional11, a particularllt ).ong cul-de-sac
r,akes sense if there are no alternatives. In this instance rce believe
there nray be an alternative. werre not reall1' sure at this point but rre
didnrt want to foreclose on that.
Batzli: Ladd, let F,e ask !,oucul-de-sac is 959 feet long.
reFred:ri ng the Probler'.
a philosophical guestion. Currentl], the
B]t exteniling it to the south, ]tou arenrt
Conract: Not toda:t werre not, no.
Batzri: Youtre not going to renred:7 ttre ProbleF' untir, reall!'/ there's not
an additional problerr, until the L shaped lot subdivides further. Yourre
not adding further capacitlz to that road until that tiFre'
Conrad: Right. If ]tou have that there horrever and a new develoPer corr'es
into the propertt, of the south, werll have a real easlt tir',e in n'aking sure
that access issuls are solved sirr,ply because we have that access to the
nor th .
Batzti: whatt s the distinquishing, r F'ean :'ou can arga!'s have that person
strrb a road northerl:/ at that tirre and wait until the L shaPed proPert],
subdivides as weII . In the trreantinre you can, it rr,ight alr,ost be a third
access issue. You l\ay require the person to the south to provide their own
adequate access. But ltourre not cor,fortable with that? I can sense '
Conrad: No. M]r preference is to not do it because I like cul-ile-sacs in
the neighborhoo- -oncept. I get real uncor,fortable with safetl, issues
however-and jrrst generil problenrs with a l.ggg foot cul-de-sac. I donrt
know that th;t's s',art. I think 5gg foot cul-de-sacs where you onl:t have
8-9 houses, I think thatrs different but here we have F,ore. I'r', kind of
uncoF,fortable fron, a safet!, standpoint and donrt know that t,erre going to
solve it in the long ternr. The easiest titrre to 6olve it Brlan, at least
not exclude sorr,ething, is light now. G€neraII!' I'n' going to suttr up r':t
corrrrents. I donrt lile the tiail where it is, and we donit have enough
inforrr,ation in front of us. It seerr,s like the ProPertlt to the south, we
haven't thought about the ProPerty tbatra going to be qeveloPed to the
south and hoi thel, access Lhe school grounds. To rr,e that' s rr,ore ir,portant
than the 8 houses that terre talking about right not. It seeFs like
therers a better solution of having a ca6ual trall, and r'.a1,be therers no
such thing but bett een s orre lots that PeoPle are already using. Bottofti
Iine, Iir, not Privy or I haveni t seen aII the inforrr,ation on the trail
discussion. tl seer,s like a ver:' oldt issue. It see[rs llke sor"ething
happened that reall:r got rrs into this sltuatlon that I donrt understand tbe
wa1'- that ere check on sor,e of these things but just in general, it doesnrt
sea., to be the right way to do lt so trr!' recoFlr'endati on to the city Council -ls reall1, to revi6w criticalllr where they're putting the trail. If ne need
a trail, and if thatrs the only place to put it, then I90 along with lt
but right now I donrt think thatrs the rise way. And I still do see sor,e
trail access to the south. I{hatever werre calling the srocur', Tree Farrr,propert:r. Vlhereis the trail serving, they have to get to the school tooand I donrt see that taken care of right now. I think in general,because I havenrt been sold on the danger neeil right now, ill I want is,rrll vote for an extended cul-de-sac. No access to the south but r thinkthatrs sinply because I don't knor, the danger issues of a Lrggg footcul-de-sac. Any other con,nrents? Is there a r,otion?
Err'nings: rtrl rtove that the planning conrrrission recor r,end approvat ofStrbdivision il89-I6 as shown on the pLat dated Decer,ber Zg, ligg subject tothe following conditions. condition r(a). Thatrs the one that proiidesthe right-of-hta:, for an extension of Crestview Lane anil no extenlion to thesouth and with the rest of the conditions in the staff report, 2 thru 5.AIso with the cona'ent that rrn, opposed to the pedestrian lrail without sorrrefurther revierc b], Park and Rec and/or the City Council. That's niy rrrotionand just to exprain. r donrt feel rike r can delete the second one and rdonrt want to vote against this thing. r think that the councir wilr haveour verbatiltr Minutes of the cor,r.,ents of the people hrho have spoken tonightand also ours and I,d like to pass it with a-poiitive vote.
Batzl i 3 Second.
Planning Corrrrr'ission Meeting
Januar!, 17, L99g - Page 16
Conrad: So :rorrr coF(tents on item
Ellson: You skipped (b). 2.
Conrad: Okay, 2. BasicalIy sa1's
Er'r'ings: Without further review byI suppose whatrs going to happen isand theyrre going to have to decidethen,selves or send it back to parkwith the rest of the subdivision isheld up on this issue.
(b) .
yourre opposed to the trail as 1ocated.
(and Outlot
additional.
Park and Rec andlor the Cit:, Counci1.itrs going to go to the Cit:' Councllwhether the!' want to decide this issueand Rec I guess is rrha t I rrr saying. Brrtfine and I donit think it ought to be
Batz1i: I assuF,e your n,otion crossed off the parens that sa!,,B) in nur'bers 3 and 5? Because Outlot B would have been thai
&t'Irrings' Of course Brian. Everybody knew that except :rou.
Batzri: r just wanted to r,ake sure for the record rhat r was seconding.
Conrad: An:, other di scussion?
Etrrrlngs: r thlnk Brlan r,ade a good sound argurhent why there is no need toput that road in to the south. weire not forecrosing anything by reavingit out at this tiFe. Even if the property to the south Eevetops-first. -rr
that access to the north out of thet propertl,, there courd be an easetr,entat that tlF'e to the north just vraltlng for the tirre when that outrotdevelops and if that outtot never devilops, there i6n.t an!, real reason. Ifthe orrner wants to keep that parcer, whatever size it ls.'r donrt knowwhat slze tight now but irhatever. 4 acres? If they want to keep a 4 acreparcer just under single ownership, r donrt think tf,erers any relson for a
Planning
Januar !t
cor,n,i ss i on Meet i ng
17, l99g - Page 17
road to go through there. Theltrre the one at risk at the entl of a Iong
cul-de-sac and if the:, want to take that risk, thatts their business.
wouldn't sa!, that about 5lots. I wouldnr t sa:t itts their business if
5 lots but if itrs one.
I
it I s
Er'rr,ings r,oved, BatzIi seconded that the Planning Cor'.,n ission reCoFrrrr€hd
approval of Subdivision *89-16 as shown on the plat dated Decenrber 29, 1989
subject to the following conditions:
I. The final PIat shall be ar,ended to provide rlght-of-wa:' for the
extension of crestview Lane as shown on Exhibit B.
2. A IO foot wide pedestrian trail shall be provided along the northerL!'
border of Lot I, Block I and Outl.ot A.
3. Ontlot A shall not be rePlatted or develoPed until the surrounding area
is included in the UetroPolitan Urban Service Area as conditioned b!'
the recent inclusion of this Propert!' into the HUSA line'
4. Future subilivision of the propert!'/ and extension of the naternrain to
the Property will result in the reguirenent of an addltional fire
h:rdrant as recoFdrrended b1' the Fire Inspector-
5. A cross easer,ent shalt be granted over Outlot A to Lot 1, Block I.
6. The trail easerr'ent shall be reviewetl further b1, the City Councl]- and/ot
the park and Recreation Corur,ission.
AII voted in favor except El1son and Ahrens tho oPPosed and the rtotion
carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
conrad: this will go to the cit:'/ council Februar!' 12th. The folks that
are here, that are interested in thls issue shorrld sta!' in touch lrith the
issue. You saw our vote reaIl!, divided and I think thatrs really going to
be representative of hov, the citlt Council sees it. You reallY do have to
staf in touch with it. I think there are several lssues that are not
clear. I think the safet], on a long cul-de-sac is reall!' a real issrre. 'I
think the overall plan of tralls going into that rrhole area is an issue to
us i'here we don't have that right now so r encourage ]'ou to stay involved
for the next couple of weeks as it goes to the Clty Council. Thank !'ou.
Jean shivellr: The first thing we heard about tonight was the MusA line
which is real ir,Portant nhich we didn't know about.
Conrad: As I say, irerve been sorking on it for 2 years.
just hasnr t been r.,acle available to the public !,et in tertr's
rrhat we I re doing
rtrs not that, itof do we know
Jean shivel:r: In a couple rronths?
Planning Cono,ission Meeting
Januar]' L7, L99g - Page 18
Ellson: I{erre hoping like you sald, to propose it in JuIy so that would
Probabl!, rrrake it spring or sortrething.
Conrad: One thing I failed to do as we Frade
alwa:,s tlo is I n,ake sure that the negative,ttighlight their key reasons for not voting.briefly?
that Frotion and
those that donrt
So Annette, can
Joan, that Ivote for it,
:tOU SurrlFrar i Ze
EIIson:
beca use
case.
I agreed
of future
with staff recoFrrr,endat i ondevelopnrent. That I think
the access to the south
should have it read], in
when
need
we can.
it...It I s
for
we
Ahrens: f agree. Ivery hard to go back
think that we should get access
and try and get access when yorr
PUBLIC HEARING:
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 20.9 ACRES INTO TWO SINGLE10.1 AND IO.2 ACRES ON PROPERTY ZONED RR AND LOCATED OFE
OE LAKE I.{INNEWASHTA, JUST NORTH OF CRII.ISON BAY, PETER AND
Public Present:
Nal're Address
FAMILY LOTS OF
oF DOGWOOD, EAST
DEANNA BRANDT.
Kurt Laughinghorrse
Peter and Deanna Brand tJohn Getsch
Ed Getsch
Ken Daniels
Represenative for the Appl icant
AppI icant
7 510 Dogwood Road
Dogirood Road
Orrner of Proposed Lot 1
Conrad: Jo Ann, could
terrT,s of the clearing.lou surrrFrari ze for me lrour recorr,Frendation? What, in
orsen: what we pointed out was that if the road tas to be a fuLl ruralstandard street Fust be provided in here, that actualry if you drive outhere you just kind of 99 -? real easily and that,s wheie itis alreadycreareil. - . we i re just pointing out that rather than crearing additionit lanaand leveling the topograph]r, it would be ress expensive to instarr thestreet there. You wouldnrt have as rcide of an area.
Conrad: Yeah. And that is your reconrrrendation?
Olsen: Well our actual r ecorr{r,enda t i on is that the}, provide the 6g foot.We donit require conditioning lOg foot right-of-way, lo Ue dedicated...werre just pointing it out that that'!s probably tha best location for aroad.
Conrad: Okay, we| 11or a representative?it up for public coFrr,ents. Is theLaughinghouse. Irve seen lrou here
oPen
Mr.appl ican tbefore on
her ethis
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report.
Planning Conur,ission Meeting
Janrrar:, 17. L99g - Page 19
issue.
Kurt Laughinghouse: Yes sir. Mr. Chairrr,an and colv'It issioners. I sure have.
And the issues haven' t changed an avrful lot. I 'rr, rePresenting Mr. and I'lrs.
Brandt rrho are here. The:, are the Purchasers of what is proposed Lot 2.
The sorrth lot. Subsequent to their applicatlon the nof,therl]' Iot was
purchaseil b:t Mr. Ken Daniels and he is here this evenlng. I know that solr,e
of the other neighbors of this propext:' are here anil theY Probabl]' have
soltrething to sa1t. To set the stage a little bit for those corr,rr,issioners
who weren't here a year ago. The owner of this entire I0g acre propert:',
Tirr, Foster who does live here in Chanhassen and has for sorr,e 10 :tears,
applied to divide the 109 acres into 4lots. It was one 80 acre lot and
this 20 was divided then. or ProPosed to be divided into the 1g that 1'/ou
see on the south anil trro 5 acre lots. ultirtatel!'/ the Planning corrur'ission
recoFuhended and it did not go to Council, a lot of road developr,ent and in
effect Foster irlthdrew the aPPlication. He then subseqtrently sold the 80
acre parcel to another party and a home is being built-on that PropertY.
Itow w-ith this 29 acres we Propose to sin,ply diviile it into two Ig acre
Iots. I think the fact that it's being platted is aln,ost a quirk in the
law in the sense that these 19 acre lots are hardly, itts hardl:/ an
urbanization of this propert]t. Itrs really only a rt'atter of getting to the
zonlng but because it is a plat, then the cltl' has a review anal that is why
we're discussing all these ioads and streets. I guess the short series is
that itrs an auful lot like, if you've read all this transcript fror, a Year
ago, the story is the sar,e. This Iand is not being subdivided. Itrs not
U6in9 devetoped. Foster bought 109 acres of propert!,. Ultir',ately he nohr
prop6ses ttat I hop,es be brrilt on a 190 acres of Propert]'.. rt is not as
ito-ogt it's urbanized and vre donrt knoy, whether urban services, sewer and
watei r.rill be delivered in 5 years or 50 years to this area. Probably a
lot less than 5g. ProbablY a 1ot rt'ore than 5 :/ears' rtrs when the urban
services are delivered, sEwer and nater, is when we should deal with paving
streets and things of that nature. I feel. sewer and water are going to
cor,e in fror, the-east along TH 41. Along Tanadoona. And that 80 aCre
property wiII develop befoie these Ig acre properties are reached. I think
lhat,s lhe reason that I propose that lrou not require the 30 foot easerrent
on the north side of what is Lot t here. when the 89 acre property is
developed, and rde all agree that sorreday sonrebod:/, if not the current
orrner. Their heirs or ior',ebod1, that they se1l the land to, will develop
that propert!'. when that happens, all of the terrain, that whole 89 acres
will Le ionsidered. Having that 3g acre easerr,ent there r,ight even be a
distraction as to what the best developn,ent of that 80 acres is or what the
best develol8rent of the whole 100 acres is. If this subdivision ls
approved, elch of tbese owners can only put t house on the-Ig acres. This
li- rural zoning, and thatrs all they hope to do. Sorreday in the future
"tttt"t thel', aid they'1r deny lt, wittr Ltre:' and their heirs wilr subdivide
the lantl. -We know that. gul that is when all of us should get together
agaln and decide the best t ay to lay out streets and lots in this
n6ighborhood. We understand fully and we agree oith lncreasing that,
rigfrt-of-wa]' on the irest slde of the propert!' to the full 50 feet and that
r.,eins that Lhese owners will dedicate 40 feet. We do not agree that that
should be Paved. rn fact we feer verlt strongl!' that the road t'ilr not be
developed in the future in that area. The lake lots are long Iots.. Serrer
and water service will probably go on the other side, on the lake side of
all those hon,es, if that ever happens because thatrs the onl], wa!, tbat youcan put gravity sewer in there. Be on the rake side of all thosa lakehor,es. And so r think it wourd be n,utderous to take the 6g foot right-of-way where we propose to grant it just for a rr,atter of for tbe record ret,sus sa!' and then pave that. Now there is, as was described b!, Us. Olsen, a4g or 50 foot wide power line easeFrent that is utterl!' devaslated as te aIIknow and that only happened about a year and a half oi two ago. There's noleason in the r,,ror td to berieve that that is where a street witl go in thefuture. Just because there are no trees ther:e now, b!, the tinre 6ewer andwater arrives, at this point in the world, that n,ight-be 20 years fror, now.There could be 2g :rear old trees on that propertlr.- The ownei of tbe ggacre parcel intends to bur:/ the power tine ttrrough his property. r thinkthat the owners that are purchasing this propert!, n.a:, weff-ao lt. I knowthat the neighbors to the east rrorrld like to see-thai power rine buriedand I inquired a corrple dalrs ago with Minnesota Valle!, and itis about g3.Oga running foot to burl, that power line so that n,a}, Ue'whai ,iff fripp.n--- --
there. Then that land rra], grow up and we r,a1, havl an oak wooils thereinstead of this power rinE 6aserte-rlt. so r ti:ini, -.^a tt.t"iust underscoresthe point that this is not a developr,ent. rt is a prat and-technicartytherefore it's srrbject to arl requiier',ents, a streel and alr this and !oforth but it realry is just two rg acre rois on a 20 acre iot andulti',ately is 3 rots o^ a lgg acre parcel . It is ;-u;;t-",;.st request ofthe city so. -we agree with arl the staff recorutrendatiois except tor twopoints. one is that the Lake Drive should be paved. we ttrinx it shourdnot be paved. secondllr, that the 3g foot easen,ent across the north line ofthe propertlz, we feel that that should not be required n,o"it1, because wesin,ply do not know where roads are going to be needed in the future. so rProbably said r,ore than r need to. -rf iherers an!, questions, rrd be gJ.adto answer ther, but soF,e others na:, want to speak lo -this. Thank lrou. -
Conrad: Thank :,ou. Other coraients?
John Getsch: rrrrr John Getsch. r rFr at 75Lg Dogrrood Road. Just orrn thepropert], there. The proposed subdivision as ii's laid out there, asbrought our earrier, is at the end of a n,ile tong cul-de-sac. rt rearlvjust, as Mr. Laughinghouse said, the!,,re just alviaing-itril-iot-ie-i]ii'which is- not a r,ajor problenr brrt planning for the futrire is the big proble:ihere. whenever this has been brought up before and the subdliviclinir'it --
seerr,s like whoever rrants to subdivide ii, does not want to have an easerhenton their propert:'. The probrer,rs never going to gei-tir"n care of until
-"-:i:::::T?lt: "1" put in rhere. As we just saw in the earlier probrer,,when therers no provision put in there, Ehey don,t g"t un-"as".ent now outof there, there,s going to be a fight and tietr,." g5ir,9 to "o." back andsay, well it's got to cor,e rrhen the gg acres is aeieLoied. It's got tocoFre all out of the B0 acres because the €as€nr€nt was lranted earlier. Ithink there needs to be plans now, sory,ehoi{ of getting i .oid out and it hasto be started now. 20 feet along the properti6s thaf are iiong the 1ake,there really isn't an:, otber easenent 6thir ttran ttrat conin! ail tte ,"1,'inthere. The other issue is the easer,ent for the power rines] Ho* is thitgoing to be handreil and put back in there. The problen, with the trees andr',oving the road over wheie it's proposed there li i.."pt"ui". Thatrs whatwe have talked with Kurt when he wai trf ing to develop ttrii before and saidit's got to be put on. It doesnrt nrake an}, sense to go in there anil rip
Planning Cortmrission Meeting
Januar], L7, L99g - Page 2g
Planning Cora,ission Meeting
January L7. L99g - Page 21
out I50 !'ear oltl trees lrhen the porder coF.'pan!, already did it f or you. And
nothing's going to grow there as long as the Power coFrPan:' sprays it everl'
]'ear to keep it fron, anything corr,ing back. The other issue that was
Lrought up, I think it was tast fa1l. I canrt reFrerrber, was a trail cor',ing
through fror, the south. Sorr,e t]rPe of trail and there was talk about
sonething €6SErrr€ht. I know itrs not ln here that there is nothing showing
for any plan of that. It just deadends cor,ing off of Crin,son BaY there.
Yourll see there iras an easer,ent granted uP to the edge of the propert!'
through Crimson Ba:' and nothing has been done to follot that antl that was
brougit trp in ttte last rteeting when thls was looked at and the:' were
talking about running all the t,a!' around the 8g acres. Running r think it
was ar6und to the eaat. Running along the south edge of the ProPerty and
then up along the east, cutting through to the Campfire car,P Property and
then through up to the Park.
olsen: The trail BBS€Fr€l1t1 I fofgot to point that out. Theyr re proposing
a trail easenent along in here.
John Getsch: okay. so that is Part of the...
Olsen: Yeah. I forgot to r,ention it.
John Getsch: Those are the onIY teal
future planning, to get the easer,ent
irr,proving that road right now unless
their garages and hon,es ripped out.
to rrove towards the lake. Thank :rou.
concerns I have right now. For
because there is no other way of
the people along the lake want to have
Itrs the only way. Therers no Place
Ed Getsch: Mlt narTre is Ed Getsch. I rFr at the ver:t end of a 5,990 foot
cul-de-sac which doesnit bother Fe at alL. What bothers r',e is the
potentiar of widening what the Power coF'|Panlt did to the proPerty about 2
!.u.s "9o. The lda!, it was proPosed earlier that the]' alevelop the road in
purple 6ut not takE an1' trees doirn and thatts a little difficult to do'
in"! "itt"r have to put ttre road where it's cleared or theyrre going to
have to cl,ear I0g foot wiile srdath through the soods west of the present
power line. I donrt think there's even an easelrrent there at this point. I
ihink itts only there because it was run 50 !'/ears ago so I donrt think
therer s anl' detined easenent there. I ran into a probler" about 5 rtonths
ago I want6d to run underground electric uP to the poerer PoIe and the
Electric Coop saial well that's fine. you can run it up to the ProPert]t but
:routre going- to have to get an easement fror, the neighboring proPert!' to 90-over to-the porrer line which is another 80 feet. weII, I think if theltrre
going to develop ttris. He doesnit want to call it a developn,ent brrt itrs
fu.ning into a -evelopment, is that thel' either get thelr act-together and
do it;fI or don't do anything. clean the road out- Put it in or do
nothing because we donrt have access to the power lines. l,laybe we'l1 have
access soF,eday. Maybe rre wonrt. If it's cleared up in easer.ents not',
rrhere the road is aEtua1ly going to go. Where itrE going to be cleared and
where the power lines are going to 90 so we know where we can get our
access if ne want another access to those other lots. Right no$ all of the
last T rots are under one ownership so it's not rearl!' a Probrerr right noU
but it could be in 1g lrears where if we rrant access to the road thatrs now
ln blue up therer weire going to have to cross sotrreboily elses Propert]t to
Planning
Januar:t
Coro,ission Meeting
L7, L99g - Page 22
get to it. So I think the:, need to define where the road,s going to go analsa:, irhat. Theyt re salting rre want to have it where the clearing is now. JoAnn sa]rs let's put it where the purpre is. welr, the two arenit the sarre.The:trre about 89 feet apart. So thatrs all the corrrplaints I have.
Kurt Laughinghouse: It tas sorr,ething that rrasnr t described. Because ofthe topo on here, there's an awful lot of things that are hard to read.But if r Fra]r, this is the sar'e... These are the z lots that Mr. Getsch hasdescribed that are under one ownership. The poner 1ine, and let me startagain. There's a 26 foot easerr,ent that r,rns iron, here, in fact it runs allthe wa], back doern to TH 4r but then runs arong the back edge of these lotsand therers a littre sr',all partiar cur-de-sac-in here. Th;t is currentlvorrned b:/ the cit!'. The 2g feet. This proposal is to dedicate 49 feet oiuS€ €6senr€ht, whichever lt is, 40 :rrore feet so there is a 6g foot ownershipb! the City here. Now, this tand is in 150 lrear old oak trees and it,s noitour intention at all to have that paved. th6 power line runs approxirrater.ybecause Ed saidr S0 feet fror" this point paralrel to the road. end it runsdown here atong the Arboretrr\ fence. rt is that that was creared at reast4g or 5g feet wide. what we didnit descrlbe but it is hard to see in thistopo so you didn't realize it but there is €lh €ds€rrrent in favor of Lot 2over Lot 1. rt will be for ingress and egress purposes and we already hav,=a description of it and will run fron this poinl alross a long power iineand will tern,inate as Jo Ann orsen described a 4g foot cul-delslc. To citystandards. I think perrr,anent. . .
Henpel: A11 ueather.
Kurt Laughinghouse: All eeather. Be an alI weather drivewal,. Thesepurchasers, and theyrre both here to speak for ther,serves, wint to live inthis rural situation. We aII know thal son,edal' it irill be developed. Inthe rreantir,e, the]r do propose to use the poh,er line with an all weatherdriveway as do all these 17 hon,6owners arong here. They have a 2g footactual citl' owned road. so just to clarify. ive agree ion,pletery with thecetschrs. This land under this right-of-wi1, should not be devel6ped into aroad. shourd not be. paved. rt is ord oak trees. Then as a practicaltatter, a driveway wirr be an easer,ent and we agreed to that. put in adeveloprrent agree in yesterda!,. WilI go over the power line in thisfashion to Lead to access to this prop;rt:'. f hope that eases the concern.
Ken Daniers! r got tot r. r just bought it. r donrt knorr, r do know theowner of tbe 8g acres. Only because he plays golf at rrry golf club and hecalLed r'e toda!, and found out that I hail bought ttrat. -ltoi ttre Lot 2, Idonrt knor{ that person. I just nret hirrr tonight. M)r intent was not to puta nulrrber of houses or ever subdivide Lot r. M:, onr], purpose ln agreein! toal.lowing that easenent across r,as to arrow Lot 2 to-hive-ingress ind egiessoff his propertlr. r donrt like catving up easeF,ents over Lot r on the-north or on the west side of-that propirtlr. I understand the gu!, in Lot 2needa to get in and out of his properlg, and that's rrhy I agreedl lo that. Idonrt think that r should be stuck paying for all these things however andr just donlt see nur,ber one, the eaiert,ent on the north side of the road.rt doesnrt rrake sense. To use €iseFr€nt yourd have to get the guy with the80 acres to give :rou another 3g acres balk and he's going to ltve to con,ein and plat that propert:, if he wants to develop it. As far as a porrer
Planning Cor,r,ission ueeting
Januarl, 17, ]-99g - Page 23
line going across that propert:t, I would like to see it buried
there's reasonable cost for doing that, Ird be happy to pay for
donr t n'ind giving this other Party an €Els€Irr€ht but I donr t t ant
h irr, a highwa:' through that property either. oka:'? Thank :,ou.
too. Ifit. rto bu i lcl
Ed Getsch: I.{}t rrrain concern is preserving rrhat I s there rather than
destroying anlt more. AIso, how do we get to the power lines when th
buried? Now if the:t bur], therrr along the easerrent for the road, rreav
and out of the treei, the easerrrent thatrs on that drawing. But lf t
poirer lines are buried over where itrs noe, cleared or anlmhere ln th
clearing, rre have to cross at least your J.and to get to it.and that
to be addressed sor',ewhere along the line. otherwise I believe in pr
rights for the owner. So thatrs all I rrr concerned aborrt.
elr t re
e in
he
at
need s
ope r ty
Peter Brandt: I'n' Peter Brandt and I'r, the Purchaser of Lot 2. I just
want to voice sort of n,1' objectlon to Putting a paved road in. If you've
been out there before you'1I realize that there are no paved roads. The
road that goes out theie right now is a dirt road. Puttinq in a 60 foot
paved road at this point is going to look, first of all it's going to be
ridiculous becaue neither of us can subdivide and have no intentlon of
doing so. Secondl]', all we're asklng for is a drivewalt and Putting a 6g
foot drivewal, in doesn't seer, to r,ake a whole lot of sense. EsPeciall:t
when y,ou 9o Lack to son,e of Kurtrs coFfiients in ter6,s of if the whole area
is going !o be developeil , :'ou realllt have to look at the whole 109 acres 'you-canit just 1ook aL ttre two 10 acre parcels that are being subdivided
today.
Er,r.ings: 9{hy? I r,ean I think thatrs exactl!, what rrer re doing is looking
at the two. r donrt understanal that at all. Ma:rbe ]'ou corrrd teII r'e wh]"
Peter Brandt: WeLl first of all, the two 10 acre Parcels
this Point. Therers Propert:t owners on arr sides of us'
on th! north side and the west side and then on the south
uinnesote ArboreturT, has an apple orchard on the south side
Crir,son Ba:t develoPtrrent is also on the south side.
are landlocked at
Therer s 80 acresside, the
and then the
the last
the thing
acre lots.
Etrtings: We've al.l looked at this, this is the third tirr,e in
couple !,ears so werre pretty faF,iliar nith it. But this is,
thal's in front of us is the division of 2o acres into two 19
Itfs not the divlsion of lTg acres into three lots.
Peter Brandt: Sure. And for that reasonr I don't personally see a need
for a 60 foot paved road Prett:7 tt uch in the rtlddLe of nowhere. rt|s going
to connect up to a dirt road. The other thing, ln terms of the €aserrent
through the trees, we object very strongl:t to taklng.an!' trees out' one of
the riasons werre J.nterestea in Lhe land is because it's t ooded. Although
a very sr,all portion of our Property would actuall!' be affected b!' it, as
far as irerre concerned, an:7 Lrees tiken out are too ttran:r. Especially glven
the fact of the power cornpan!, has alreail:, gone through and taken trees out
for us.
Henpel: r1r. Chairr,an, lf I could just clarif:, the cit!, standard road width
for a rural. It is a 24 foot bitur,inous ftat with 6 foot gravel shoulders.
Planning Cor',r,iss ion Meeting
January 17, !99A - Page 24
Not 66 foot paverrent.
Conrad: Thanks. Other coFr'ents.
Batzli nrov€d I El l son
favor antl the n,otion
seconded
carried.to close the public hearing. All voted in
The public hearing iras closed.
You donr t have the
the buck.
Conrad: Joan. What are lrour questlons? Conurrents?
background the rest of us do so yourre...
Ahrens: Ieah, why donrt we start rrith Steve. I pass
Conrad: That I s fair.Anv questions at a I1?
Conrad: Yeah, thatrs a good question. whatthere ever be a way to connect?
Olsen: To connect?
Ahrens: I don't understand sone of this. First of all, therers aroadvra:, that the City oirns on the west side of Lake Drive. Right?going to be, the road that is proposed to be put in is on the eastLake Drive. Right? So tbere,d be Lake Drive but it'd just be, sobe no access for. . . Lake Minnewashta.
2A foot
There i sside of
thererd
into
r.rould be the process, would
Conrad: Those lots tha tDogirood. Let's sa!' inthe new t ight-of-way?
are cur ren tl ],20 ltears, t hat
serv iced
would be
b],
a
the current road. Bprocess to hook theF,
Olsen: The right-of-way right now is beinghave it. The:' would be adjacent to it. Ifwhere the clearing is right
Batzli: They, d
Dogwood .
be on a long
Erarings. I didnit knor you
Conrad: Oh, I rF, sorrlr. I
Ahrens: Thatrs ehat I wasbe a piece of land on Lot Ithe access?
nog.
cul-de-sac there.
proposed where the!, wouldn r tthe right-of-i{a}, rrent up to
The people crrrrently on
conrad: so therer s tealry no benefit to those people for this particular
Ioad. The right-of-way that we're tarking aboul rlght now. EvLn in thefuture, there is no rong terr, benefit for then. th6y,re siirl going tohave a separate access to their ot n propert:/.
Batzli: Ladd is taLking about if we go the power line route, you're goingto get a Y shape and the people currently on Dogirood.
were talking about the poirer line.
kne!, that.
asking about.that i{ould go
?he power I ines .
between the power
Wouldn I t thereline route and
Planning Conrt ission lteet ing
Januar!' ]--l , L99g - Page 25
Conrail:
Ahrens s
Conr ad :
BatzIi: Itrs
purchasing it
tin,e .
Yeah. Still under the ownershiP of those owning Lot I and 2
So there worrld be no access.
Not unless they sold it.
olsen: Or if it was all acquired as an easen.ent now but that would r,ean
that Lot 1 vrould be giving uP about 109 feet. Itrs never been done.
Ahrens: I't, going to go wlth that for a second. I do have a probler, with
this Provision, one of the conditions provided b!' staff' That Lots l and
2r Block I waive any rights to contest future assessments . . . Dogwood . I
donrt understanil vrh:r the]' can do that. I donrt know if thatrs possible.
Olsen: Itrs been done before like in develoPr,ent contracts and such where.
EIIson: That's if you donrt recor,rrend the street.
olsen: Right. The]'rre say'ing that at this point that the!' do
have a street but at sor,e point that the atreet does need to be
provide the safety, the standards. Then at that Point we want
r,ade clear that. . .
not rrant
in,pr ovedit to be
to
to
Ellson: You could have got it now but rre chose not to so we can get it
Iater.
Olsen: The:' alirays can stlll contest it but we kind of let therr, know that
at sorrie point it trill haPPen.
certainly rr,aking it of record as to those lots
will have noticeil that the street was deferred
so
to
that people
a later
Ahrens: Thel' have notice of the objection.
Batzli: Yes. whether the!' object or not, you can al[ays object.
conrad: You donit have an!'/thing else or do you want to thlnk?
Ahrens: Itm golng to think about this.
Batzli: Just an eas:, question first. Have they ever decided where the
septlc sites sould be? I have a tough time declphering these. It alread!,
currentll, shotts thetT.?
olsen: on these Plans, it should.
BatzLi: oh. Okay. those little dottedl guys are EePtic sltes?
olsen: Yes. The solt borings were per f orrt ed years ago. i87 or 8o but
they were all approved.
Batzli: lthings like that donit change over tir,e?
Planning
Januar:t
Corturrission Meeting
17, L99g - Page 26
Ol sen :No.
You rouldnr t have a reguirer,ent to go out there and do it again?BatzI i :
Olsen: No, :rou wouldn't.
Batzli: Okay. Wh]r aren t twerre not going to connectnot going to do that.
we, f ren,err,berto CriFson Ba:'
olsen: rn 100king at the options we were thinking that the access ontolike TH 5, ...Dave input too but that that was going to be difficultlr. lt,sarread], a bad intersection. when yre went through this process befor-, infront of the planning corrorission, at that tin,e it nasn't fett that thisshourd be the connection to the south. we agreed to have, thatrs stirr anoPtion and we have rooked at the cross secti6ns and it can be accorr,plished.Still n'eet the Citl, standards.
Batzli: It seeFrs to ne that we just got done talking about longcur-de-sacs and here we have an even r.onger one. r donrt knon. rt'sobviously a ver!, narrow dirt road at thii point.
olsen: rt was sort of a corr,prorr,ise between the staff and the applicant.They did not agree to having it go to the south...options ior frrtureconnections and thatrs why we were going back to thE east because in theaLr the feasibility studies, a rot of t herr, showed roads going back throughthat section. Itis still a possibility. It rrouldn,t be able toaccorr,plish...unless the property fror, lhe Arboretrrr wourd coFre down.Essentiall], that splits Lot 2 i;to 2lots also. If lrou ilo irtprove thestreet.
Henipel: Ur. Chairrrran, I think the rrra jor factor why we r re notthe southern connection is because of TH 5. The iitersectionadd traffic to it, itis going.to get worst. weire looking atupgrading of TH 5, the State is I-should sa),, and at that tir,ereall], requesting Iin,ited access. They r.,igit have only rightout in that intersection aIso.
hearing in past conversations lrh
Road but explaln to rre why werre
consider ingthere, if lzoufuture
the:r r return, r ight
Et{r,ings: Does the upgrading goof TH 4I?
west, that the State is looking at, 90 west
Hen,pe I :Sor,e day it will.
But it. a not now?
But not in the iro,ediate
So itrs not topograph!,?
new infornration.
Topographl, is di ff icul t
Errrr'.ings.
Her,pe L :
Conrad:
kind of
future, no.
It's traffic :'ourre telling n,e which is
Hen,pe'1.:also but lt could be n,anaged.
Enr,ings: The:, told us that toPograPh:r was the thing, the reason we
shouldnr t do it the Iast tirr,e it was here is ny recollection.
Planning Con'rt, i ss ion Meeting
Jantrarlt L7, !999 - Page 27
Olsen: Part of the reason is
showed that it's not as steeP
the ptan, if you actuall], go
why, we did prrrsue the south
ilone.
olsen: Itrs 25 feet past.
Conrad: Is the grade n,ore than 7t going up?
Hen.pel: I bel.ieve it was ln the 78
Her,pel: The grades 3r€ rror€ gentle uP here the
Actuall!' t,here the right-of-wa], is proPosed' the
conrad: on the Crir,son Ba:t developrrent we have
easerrrent going to the Property line donrt we?
we do have new topo for out there and it
as what the original toPo shorred. Even on
out there, it doesnr t look as steep and thatrs
access again and did shoe that it could be
po$er lines are thorrgh.
slope is nruch steePer.
an access or we have an
Conrad: Yeah. Thatrs where I was at. SteeP grade and soFre other stuff.
Obviously engineering wise we can do anlrthing but I guess lrlrr not swal'ed
traffic on TH 5 there. rt seenrs, and rrve ali'a:ts thought this, it seer's
like a nice solution for an access to that site but I uas swayed b}'
topograph:/. It couldnrt be done reasonabllt eell anal I guess I need
conf irr',ation that that's still the case.
b1,
Conrad: whatrs the vegetation like?
to 10t range, yes.
I havenr t visited that.
you
a
Her'pel: Itrs heavily wooded going up the hill.
Conrad: Okal'. Br ian?
Batzli: Is this area within the MUSA line expansion as weII?
Krauss: No.
Batzli: t{hy isn't it? Just out of curiousitl'. vlhy did we jog it up right
there? Did we cut it at TH 4t? was that our }lne?
Krauss: It actuall]t cuts off before
north side of TH 4L was designated as
on TH 4I a wa]ts.
Batzli: That corner on TH 41 and TH 5 lras the study area? Okay.
Krausss It was felt that that vras rrore area for residential developn,ent
than vre could justify based upon our exPectatlons of growth at this tlF,e.
Batzli: I guess I look at this belng a little blt different than the last
one in that I think ln order for Lot 2 to develop, which at sor,e da!' it
probably has to, I think we do need to have s orrre sort of irr'proved street
get to TH 41. That area on the
study area. Then it picks trP north
and r think norrrs the tirrre to get it. An interesting question raisedthough is if in fact tbe:',do-bur!' the power line and then you,re looking ata long deray over a period of tir,e, r donrt know that it r,lkes sense to putit where the power line is now, although that seenrs like the best optionright noir. But in a_F,atter of years, if tfre1, do go through with it and burrthe line and. they quite cutting the trees, ii lrouire looking down the roid',thatrs a heck of a question as to where yourre going to put it.
Conrad: WelI, :rou go back to the current road. Anil lrour 11the trees that are there.
Planning Cormiission ueeting
January L7, L99g - Page 28
olsen: Thethis tin,e.
Ellson: But rre could like...
Er,nrings: We could propose thatbut not require lnrproverrent.
take 40 feet of
it's written right now is that lt would have to irrrproved at
Ellson: And the]rtll be older than the other ones that are 2g :7ears o1d.
Batzli: WeIl, they.rtight aII be dying by' that tir,e. If you put a rbad innext to the por.re r line, would it fit in lhe right_of_wa]r? yoirrd be takingout r,ore trees lret wouldnrt :rou?
Hemper: soFre additionar trees wourd have to be renroved. r think theslopes extended out approxir,atel:, gg feet wide through there.
Batz1i: If ire took right-of-wa), now, lrou rrouldnrt necessarily have toinclude. rt corrld be a private-drive at ttis point couldn;i it across Lot1? Oka:r, I donrt have an:rthing else rlght now.
Ellson: This one, I nrean I onl!, saw this one tir,e. I don't have alt thehistor:, of the other people but itrs always been confusing io r,e so IrlI bethe first to say that. But the different street choices iea1l1, threw rr,efor a loop and r.guess r had arrrost the sarre questlons as his at the end. Irrean ]rou're looklng at Miss I h,ant to save ever1, tree I possibl!, can. Ihate the thought of going in anct taking then, ju-st for th! sake 6f right nowtwo r,ore lots. I like the idea of getting the easeF,ent so ttrat we courdbuild. it and bring it up to the standard is the density increases orsorrething but I reall]' didn't ifant to do that right noi and I rondered ifylr3t w9'5e proposing here in the rtotion is to bring it up to a standardIll(e rlght now. It shall be built to cit!' standards. In other rrords, assoon as the], get it,-t{erre going to have lhis long dirt road and then justthis -great rooking littre piece down there for on6 p"rson ina r,a rathernot do son,ething like that but Ird like the capabilitl, later on to sa:,oka]r, non we irant it. werve got that easer.ent, se,d iixe to do it ab6rrtnow. If rre have that lrith rralrbe just chang ing that nurrrber I, that r s theway Iid like to see it going.
Conrad: Can lrou react?
Ellson: Theyrre shaking their heads.
wav
as an alternative. 1(a)...Iike they said
Planning Con.rr,ission Meeting
Januar!, 17, L99S - Page 29
Ellson: oka!,. Youtre right. And thatts what I'r, Iooking to do.
Err,ings: Just a couple of things. on Page 5 of the staff report, under
lot frontage, it salrs Lot 2 has Lgg feet in that the ordinance requires
2SS. And then it sa1,s that no variances are reguired and can you
rationalize that for r,e.
Olsen: That I s one...
Hrfi,ings: so it rrould
to go to the Board of
ther, b!, passing this?
neeil a variance. Is that a varlance that they have
Adjustrrrents for or is that sor,ething that we give
Olsen: werve done it before...
En,r,ings: weI1, what's required?
olsen: Technicall], we take it back in front of the Board of Adjustr,ents.
Etrarings: so this needs a variance for Lot frontage, at least for Lot 2.
As far as the road thing goes, to rre I belleve $hat should be done is that
ere should get the 4g feet off the rrest side of I and continue to Lot 2 as
itrs drawn on the big r',ap that rre have and not have then, develoP it untll,
for the present. I donrt see an:t reason of bringing that end of things up
to a standard that the rest of that long, long road doesnit meet right noir.
Terr,porarily they,11 have their oun s:rsterr of private drivewal' which seerr,s
very reasonable to rr.r€ and see!,s to f it the character of rrhat the1,r re doing
and ever!/thing else so Irnr fine rrith that. I do think, it irasn't in our
report this Uusiness of therrr putting a cul-ite-sac on the end of the private
driveuay that would be up to citl' standards but that is colr[\onplace?
olsen: Yes. Itrs going to be...
Err,rt ings: Itrs not there as a condition. It rtight have been r,entioned.
olsen: Wer re shosing it on the plan...
Eqrr,ings: No, the:/rre talking about doing it at the end of the Private
drive. Is that r ight?
Hettpel,3 On the cor'ryron lot line beti{een I and 2.
But thatrs on their own private slrsteth of road that theltrre
Her,pel: That r s correct.
Enrn,ings: Al,:ight. I think that should be in there as a contlition that
tbe:t irill provide plans and specs for a cul-de-sac at the end of the
private drive that lri11 satisfy the City Engineer because that gives us
iinally a place for things to turn around down there even if it isn't in
the best place but I think thatt s an in,portant thing to have noit. I donrt
Erro,ings:
doing.
Planning Con,r,ission Meeting
Januar!, L7. L99g - Page 3g
like the provision where thelr waive rights to contest future assessrrents.I thlnk that's awful. I think if the!, dedicated the, if wetre forcing therrto give us that easettent across there to build a road in the future, whenit cor,es tir,e to build that road, the]rrre going to get assessed and theltshould have the right to come in and conrptain all thelr r,ant before they getassessed. It's good to 1et off stear,. I think that the road needs to bewhere it is. I think werve got to add the 40 to the 2g so rre donrt cut offthe properties along the lake and I think what ultir..ratet!' ought to happenout there is that that dar,n power llne ought to buried ana ii ought to-beburied in the road right-of-way. That solves everybody,s probler,. I don,tthink the Pot er coF,panl, would bave any probler' with th,t. If there was aneaseFr€nt out there, theyrd be happl' to use lt. Would that be right do youthink?
Her'pel: I would sa:, so, yes.
E!,rrings: So I think that's a good solution.probler..rs. I have a qrrestion about, I rronder
You understand that :'ou canrt put in a dockvegetation or do any dredging or anything toback here for a wetland alteration pern it?
It t{i11 f it ever!'bod:/i sHr. Brandt, is he stlll here?or a boardwalk or Fiove an!,that shorel ine erithorrt cor.,ing
Petel-Brandt:
En,r.,ings: Has
Peter Brandt:
Yes .
that been explained to :rou?
Yes.
Errrr,ings: Oka1z. And I wondered, as f ar as Mr
lrou have any, has anybody said you'd have anlr
Daniels is
la ke access
concerned. Do
fr orr :rour lot?
Ero,i.ngs: WeIl, forget it because I'nr watching you. Ird advise you, ifyourre planning on that, to read our regulations. There canrt be boats ondocks. If :rourre not an owner of the propertyr you canrt put a boat on thedock and things like that. There are a lot of rrrles regarding that and rdonrt knovr. You're buying a real nice big lot real cloie to i real nlceIake that I live on and I just sant to r',ake sure :rour elres are open when:tourre going in.
Ken Daniels: No. I'r, looking for soF,ebod:r. I was just talking...
Ken Daniels: IiF, br:ying the wooded lot.
Er'rr'ings: Thatrs good. This is just a question out of pure ignorance. OnLot 2, the septic sites are a long walrs f r ortr the house. Is that cor,rlon?Irve never seen septic sites so far awa1, from a house before.
O1sen: Thatrs not where they have to be. What usuall], happens is thatthel'tlr bring in new soil borings once they have the rocatlon of the house.
Errrrr,ings: If for an:, reason
any problenr? I donrt know.
have a purr,p station?
those happen to the be the only sites, ls thatIs it uphill or anything so thelrtd have to
Planning Cor.ur,i ss ion Meeting
Januarli L7, L99g - Page 31
Conrad:You can always purrrp it.
Thatr s a long ways uP the hill though.
Itrs just a matter of cost though. Itia their probler, I knon
Batzl i :
Er,r,ings:
but .
Henrpel.: I guess Irr, not that farr,lliar with septic s!,stems.
EF,r',ings: My only conrrents then t ould be, I would ctlange condition 1 such
that it was essentially like the al.ternative 1(a) so that we require
deilication of the 40 feet at this tln.e but donrt require an:, upgrading
until the whole road, sonething is done with the entire road or sorrething
else happens out there with develoPnient such that it niakes n,ore sense. I
think that condition 6 should be expanded because it sa1,s any access to
Lake Minne$ashta would require a wetland alteration perr,it and I know t hat
that r'eans but r think that that condition ought to be expanded to sa],
thererd be no dock or boardiralk or dredging or rerloval of vegetation or any
activlty, in the area of the shoreline without a wetlanil alteration perrtlt
so it's verli, very clear what irer re talking about there. I think that
there should be a condition on the cul-de-sac at the end of the private
drive that one irill be done that will be designed that r',eets the approval
of the Cit]' Engineer and I think that ire should strike this business about
ther, not contesting future assessFrents. That's all I have.
Conrad: Yorl said you only had a couple of cortn'ents. Jo Ann and PauI, teII
nre about, r'r, vacillating. I realllt like the power llne as a potential
access to that site sir,ply because itrs been stripped anil it looks like the
right prace to do it but then r go back and salt when we do that then werve
got soFe acreage that terve seParated froF, this lot and that doesnit seenr
right. so then r go back and sa1' reII let's add 40 to i,hat we've got. To
t,hit's currently there. When we do that and we do upgrade this part of the
road sor.,eda1' and I should have gone back. I thought I was real clear what
I $as going to vote on tonight and I shorrld have driven back there anil
taken i look but irhat do ne need to cut down? If te exPand it to 6g feet,
whatr s going down in terr,s of woods?
Krauss: Itle havenr t done a stud:r of that. Dave hasn't looked at that in
detail lret but ltou can see that where that cul-de-sac occurs, it's quite
steep. The steeper the graite, the wlder the cut ls to kind of pinch a
cul-ale-sac into the hiII there. It nould be a significant cut.
olsen: It would all be cleared. The full 50 feet.
Conrad: I have another r',ajor probler, and lrr', still not convinced that that
access to the south. I guess I havenrt seen enough inforFation on that or
been brought back up to speed on a potential connection to Crir,son Ba1'
developnient. Boy, it seeF,s 6 r,onths ago, a Year ago, whenever ire saw this
last tirr'e, lt sure S€€Fr€d tike that rrould be a nlce rra!, to access this area
and we're losing soF,e potential here and that bothers Fre a little blt but I
donrt have enough inforn,ation to react to that. Are you two, and I guess
Irve got to just put, ask lrou the question, ]tou're both convinced that we
Planning Con,rt ission Meet i ng
Januar:, L7, L99g - Page 32
donrt need it and itrs not srrart to do? I just have to sa:/ that.
Krauss: A real definitive answer r I donrt think it,s as definitive asthat. we think that itts possible to put through a connection to the southand it r.rould not be a bail thing if we were in a position to do that. Whatwe think r,ade it possible was that poirer Llne cut. you see the problerr,with that cul-de-sac, where the cuI-de-sac would be located off theexisting street is what :/ourre doing is yourre rolling off down a hill intoa fairly steep area. What the powei tin- easeF,ent does is it sta:'s up niceand high where it's relativellr flat and it allows d rrrrlch r,ore genlle gradeback down to the existing street in Crirnson Ba:r. One of the things wilooked at though in doing this was when this wls looked at before] thedirection we received was that we shourd not proceed rrith that connectionto the sorrth. That it was rooked at and was disn,issed. so then we lookedfor sonre alternatives to that.
Conrad: Was that us that did that? Do :,ou reca1l.
olsen: No, there were other coFarents son,ewhere arong the line with TH 5being added and with the other. The rast tirre it wai up, r think thereu€r€ Fror€ cor,n,ents r,ade that not to have the street in'ptoved at this tinre.Take the easeFrent but not to have it ir..proved
Conrad: It could be done youtre telting rrre but right now yourre notconvinced of it. You're convinced werve solved sorte acces; problen,s sorreother wa:rs. Ha]rbe on the north of this will help a little bit but yourreconvinced that we really donrt need the aceess to the south. There areF'ore detrinental things that could occur?
Olsen: No.
Krauss 3 we rdould still prefer
to do tbat. The probleF,s irith
access to the south, you havethe power line easertent is.
the access to the south if it were feasiblethat are that if you're going to do theto look at relocating the street onto rrhere
Conrad: Which is wha t
recoFaiended that.
you recor'rrrenaled . Basically in the staff report lrou
Krauss: l{hich is uhat ,e eould prefer but therers reall!, a problerr, rith itln that we'd be stranding propert], or the dedication be ;idei than we.renorr.ally entitled to.
Conrad: Whatts a nornal dedlcatlon?
Nrauss: 59 feet.
Conrad: Isnrt that what lrou asked for the porrer llne?
Olaen: ...power llne but to keep it aII ylthin right-of-wa:i and not tosplit another piece, youtd be taking alr,oat ISS feat of rlglt-of-way.
Batzli: Otherwise lrourd be leaving that y cu1-de-sac.
Planning CoFur,ission Meeting
Jantrar!' L7, L99O - Page 33
Olsen: Yourd be splltting fror, other land.
Conrad : I nor, erhat ]rou lrean. Who cares? Do t,e care?
olsen: Who cares?
Conrad: we r,ight. I F,ight not. rhls is a real probler, area. I think
yourve got to rr,ake sorrre hard decisions on solving the proble& here. whatrs
the negatlve of running the roaal through to the south? werve got to cut a
lot of trees doen? werve got sor,e elevatlon problems Possibllt?
Krauss: Runnlng the road through to the south on the poser line easertent,
if that were to be done, would result ln considerabUT resa tree ross thanputting the cul-dte-sac ln where itrs illustrated uith the right-of-way.
Errrr,ings: You i re going to have to conitertn Propert], out of the Arboreturtr.
Krauss: Yes.
Olsen: And there's traffic. And then if that road is ir,proved, ltourresplitting Lot 2 into tuo 1ots.
Erfirings: Can we conder.n State ProPertlr? I never even thought about that.
Can :tou take State ProPert:'?
Krauss: No.
Er,r,ings: I wouldnt t think so. I donrt know really.
Conrad: so the Arboretturr has the tand between the cr lr,son Bay.
E!,r,ings: To the east of Cr in,son Bay.
Conrad: I donrt want to go through there.
olsen: Iou have to. To connect to Cr ir,son Bay, you would neeil to
lmprove . . .
Hempel: Yourd have to in,prove a portlon of lt f r orr, the end of the
cul-de-aac to the subdivision.
Olsen: Right now lzou have an ea8ement.
Conrad: Thatrs what I'm trylng to connect to.
Err'r,lngs' But you need another 25 feet on thls slde. Then yourd wind up
condlen,nlng lt out on ttlat slde.
Conrad: Canr t do that.
Er[rrings: You know Ladd, on that connection south, I r ett,er,ber lhlt own
feellngs that it nas real irtportant to do it and I reneF.ber atall telling
Planning Corrrission Meeting
Januar:, L7 t L99g - Page 34
us that it could not be done. Thatrs erhat I rer,er,ber. Andthat decision back then, staff has turned around on this andnot be the saFre staff. I don't know. I donrt even care tobut they've done a 186 on us here. I feel like. But nohr Iis cast and I do think TH 5...
I feel li ke
i t r,a1' or ria)tthink about itthink the die
conrad: Just to support, they probabry heard us react the last tirre andsaid werl therers not support. There are other alternatives to provideaccess so in thelr defenie, r think theyr re negotiating with deviropersbu:rers. I donrt know that theyive done a lgg.
the
or
Er'rrings: WeII to rtre they have and IrlI teII !rou, TH 5 is an incrediblydangerous road in the area nhere Crirr,son Ba]r durrps out. I think ," ".iturn sonrething around inside that 80 back out to TH 4r that rrilr reind upbeing better probabl:/. Itis a big enough tract so I think that will ok-avat that tir,e.
Kurt Laughinghouse: In the staff report. part ofrePort fron, the engineerrs Iast lrear. No. yeah,
coFre to the naF.e of the engineering conrpany.
Errr,ings: Feasibilitlz stud:r.
Kurt Laughinghouse: Anywa],, itrs :rour consultingalternatlve road slzstens here.
that for a Froment?
to you.
the staff report is thelast :rear r 8, f rr., going to
engineering. The:r have 5
Kurt Laughinghouse: I'1r . Chairr.an,
Conrad: Well yourre at the podiurr,.
Conrad: Yeah, werve read it.
nra:, I sPeak tO
wer 1l 1i sten
Kurt Laughinghouse: Yeah, I know :rourve read it, but none of ther, includegoing south down through Crirrson Ba],. Believe r,e, despite rrhat people aresaying on the side here, a person cannot, rrve drann where the p6wei linedestruction is. you'1r notice that it is off rrhere the dedication wourdbe. That blue line indicates roughly, or ver!, cIose, rrhere there are notrees. Thatrs $here there are no trees. Everything else east and rrest ofthat is.h,ooded. Oka!,? When one gets to the end of ihat blue llne, and thatleads dlrectly into the CriFson Balr easernent that you have. That's 25 feetside and ]rou can see it there on that prat. a person cannot wark off theend of that blue line and walk down to CriFrson Ba!, without, alF,ost rrithoutturning around and grabbing onto weeds or grabbing onto branches orgrabbing onto the fence. It is very, ver:, steep. Noir, that doesnrt rrrean aroad canit be built there. It does n,ean though if werre going to build, 1fone rrere to build a road there, there rrould hbve to be a cut rr,uch widerthan 60 feet. In order to n,ake this, to get down this stope, or up, lrousorrrd bave to cut the soil back on both sides and filr here anil cut hEre 70or 80 feet and I think Dave rrill back r,e up. Ma!'be he can...it is notlevel.. ftrs ver:t, verlt steep. Set aside the fact that :rourre not going toget- the University land an]rwa]r. It erould not be easlr at-a1L. Alway,sdoable but itrs not eas:,. Therers several things thit have been sa-id. Itwould devastate Lot 2 and I think it eould just destro:, the purpose that
erer re here for. I think the applicants would wlthdraw the PIat. It just
sirr,ply is not a feasible thing to do and it bears otrt rrhat I tried to
suggest earlier is that this leads into an 80 acre parcel to the east that
uLtir,atel], therers lOO feet or so of frontage. Several hundred feet of
frontage on TH 41. one or 2 or 3 road accesses can be drawn into this
p(opera:' and there will be Plent}, of safe developr,ent and publicl:/ safe
developr,ent of this property in the future. When itrs reall:, on the table.
Whatrs on the table nou is two rural lots.
Conrad: Yeah.
Batzti: Hord close can you rr,ake the access points on a trunk highway?
Conrad: Irll just, :,ou know what ]tourre doing. we also have been bere a
while too. As you divide things sFraller and sr,aller you lose perspective
of the big picture. glerre trying to keep our eye on the big picture along
with staff and ltou know thatrs our job. You canrt do lt lrhen :tou divide 80
acres. We know vrhat just happenetl to r,ake this happen. we knohr that werve
solved sorrr€ of the econon,ic restrictions we Put on Tir', when he was trylng
to get in here. This r think is a good wa:/ to reduce solte of those
resirictions but just your point, it doesn't r'ake sense. It Potentialll'
does n,ake a lot oi sense. rrn, not saying thls is a right thing to do.
Itrs just an issue that I forgot about and itrs a Frajor Problen back there
Mr. Laughinghouse and vrerre trl'ing to deal with that. rtrs real tough r,hen
Irou stait dividing down into 19 acre Parcels. Itrs a lot easier lrhen ],ou're
dealing with a lo0 acxe parcel because then 1'ou've got roadv'a:' structures
and :tou cBh rrrov€ it but noY, we|re trying to plan for the future and thatis
wh1' we're taking a look at a few different things antl I donit have all the
intorr',ation thal n,a1,be I shorrld have looked at beforehand because I've kincl
of precluded this because of the last tine we looked at it. I donrt knoe,
the safety on TH 5 issrre. I do know that Lundgren Bros. is r,aking the sarte
cuts that yourd have to nrake there, Lundgren Bros. is doing it in
Chanhassen very nicel:r with the sar'e t:,Pe of stuff. It can be done. It
can be done prEttl, easitlt. It can be done ver]t attractivell'. Irrr, not
recoFr,ending that we do it here but itts just one of those options that
given a lot of lous!, solutions that eerre looking at, Irtr' just bringing in
one other possibilitl' here whlch wiII help Fe rr,ake rrp nr:t rrind. And :toui re
going to run into the saF,e diverse opinions as !'ou get to City Council so I
dontt want to bog this down at our level because werre just a recon'lrending
body.
Batzli: Can I ask a question of Dave?
HeFrpel: The!, are restricted b!, MnDot. I donrt have.
sight distances on the terrain and so forth. unDot is
right-of-wa:, docu!'entation where the:, have certain...
It! s IiF itedthe one that
to
has the
Batzli: And therer s also I suppose intersection lir,itatlons. In looking
at hoyr the road to the north here cothes out onto TH 41, we donit knoir fror',
looking at that if there trould be a Problen' of Putting in additional
accesses to the south of that?
Planning cora,ission l,teeting
January L7, L99g - Page 35
Planning Conr,ission
Janrrry L7, 1990 - Page
llee t i ng
35
was talk of the possibility of another access point outirould take MnDot approval also. I guess we feeL that is
Herrpel: There
TH 41 but thatpossibi I i ty.
onto
a
Conrad: Yeah, I think I saw that once upon a tin,e. One rr,ore.
Batzli: One F,ore sorrth of Tanadoona.
Conrad: Yeah. I donrt n,ind the balance of the, I know Steve ]rourreconcerned h,ith sorre of the other issues in the staff report. I guessthings are fogglr enough in rt1' n,ind that I don't rtind soie of those. SoF,eof the staff cor'nents in there. An!, other con,rrrents? Joan, anything that:iou want to j ur,p back in after lrourve heard rrs r.,ish r,ash the tfring upZ
say one thing. That the southel...n access tothe biggest issue there is getting the land.land, Irrrr not sure it's good public policy to take
Ahrens: I just wanted to
Crir,son Ba], Road, I think
Even if we corrld get theState 1and.
Ahrens: Irr, not sure, I think rra]rbeacquiring the land fron, the State...public pol lcy.
was r,issed on that aboutsure that thatrs the best
Conrad: Canrt do it. A1l, lrou can do is not preclude that option right nowand require Eh €ds€Fr€nt up to it. It doesnrt sa:, itrs going to, it,; justIike our previous one.- It doesn't sa:, hrerre goiig to a5 it-Uut 1,ou coildrequire irl €.lS€rr€ht and therefore the purchaser right now knows that in thefutrrre we r,a:, want to run a road through. rt rrra), lrevent his decision tobu:'. that.property. In tt,:/ F,ind, that,s the last ltring f rrant to do isdivide his parcel up as he coFres out here and wants io rive on 2g acres. rwotrld love to live on 2g acres and Ird never want to exclude anybody froriwanting to bu]' that and use it that wa!,. On the other hand, oui loi is tosay werl, downstrearrr whatrs going to happen and that access n,ight be theright one.
n,:, po int
I I ltr not
Conrad: To State land?buy
Ahrens:
have to
Conrad:
Batzli:
EII son :
Batzli: But :rouwouldnrt even ask
developed.
I{eI1, thatrs Arboretrrlnbe acguired in order to
Right.
l and
have
right? And the Arboretur, land wouldaccess to Cr irr,son Road .
pr inclple.
But it would benefit al.I the people in there.
When it turns into a developni,ent but lt r s the sar,e
wouldnr t be purchasing the land untilthe Arboretulh unless you needed that :'ou needed it.
access vrhen i t You
Errson: But are ne saying that we l{ant to take state rand to help peopredevelop this? The bottor, line is, is that a good way?
Planning
Januar!/
Cor,r,ission Meeting
L7, L99g - Page 37
I dontt think :/ou can anywa:t but even if we cotrldr I donrt think
Farings: I I I1 rrove that the Planning Cor,n,ission recoFrrrend approval of
Subdivision 189-11 as shown on Plans dated Nover.,ber 13, 1989 rrith the
following conditions. NuFber I would be baslcally whatrs down as oPtion
1(a). that lt would require dedication of 4g feet along the west lot line
of Lots 1 and 2 to be cor',bined with the existing 29 feet of right-of-vJa]'
for the furt 5s foot rurar street right-of-wa:' but iF'Proverrent of that
right-of-wa1' would not be requireal until the rest of Dogwood or Lake Drive
is ittproved or until developrr,ent in that area would require in,prover,ent.
condilions 2, 3, 4 and 5 rrould sta:7 as vrritten b]' staff. condition 6 would
be expantled. Essentiall:' sta!' the sar,e but just be expanded a little bit
to salr that any access includlng a dock or boardwalk to Lake Minnewashta
frort, iot 2, Block l would require a wetland pern,it as would any dretlging,
or reFroval. of vegetation in the area of the shoreline. Then Ird add the
conditlon ? that worrld say that, there rrill be a cul-de-sac at the end of a
s:rsten, of private driveways that serve the owners of Lots I and 2 and plans
and specs ior that cul-de-sac shall be submitted to the Citlz Engineer for
appro;al. If the parties decide not to use the s!,ster' of private drlveways
b-ui rather use Laka Drive soF,ehorr, then the:'r11 stirl be resPonsibre for
providing a cul-de-sac at the entl that F'eets the approval of the City
Eng ineer. The enil .
Conrad: Good. Is there a second?
Conrad: It could be less costly in the long run. Anything else? Is
there a r'otion?
Ellson: second.
Conrad: An], discrrssion?
Olsen: Since the street wonrt be ir,Proved, then we should also
condition that there shall be easer,ents across Lot l for access
I knoe, that they said that theyr re providing that but.
have a
to Lot 2
Ahrens:
it's...
Er'r,ings: well, but Jo Ann if they don't give an easerrent, the!' always have
the right to use Lake Drive so let ther, worry about it. That's erhat I
think.
Heripel: Hr. chairr,an, conditlon 2 should rra!'be be deleted if yourre not
proposing to improve the street to clty atanalards becauge it rrill not be a
public street. PubIlc improver,ent.
Batzli: What would the], have to do for the cul-ale-aac?
Her,pel: We could make it conditloned upon building pernit approval .
Erfi,lngs: So that's Probabl!, not reall!, a Public lmprovertrent?
HeFrpeI: Thatrs correct.
Planning Cor,n,ission MeetingJanuary L7, L99g - Page 38
EtlF ing s : yeah ,
iF proverrents ?an:'thing.
that rrrakes
Okay. Then
sense to
nun,ber 2
pre. There aren I t
could be s tr i ken.
other
doesn t t niean
any
It
Conrad: And thatrs going to be a
improverrent of the cuI-de-sac.
condition of what? If it's not here, the
Etrrrings' Itrs still a condition becarrse that's r,y conditionThat there will be a cul-de-sac that meets hls aplroval butdeveloprtent contract for a public improver,ent beiause werrepaving a street or building the shoulders or lrhatever.
Conrad: Okay, do you agree with elir,inating nur,ber 2 then?
Erur,ings' Yeah I do.
Ellson: Irll change n,y second aIso.
Et'nrings r,oved, Errson seconded that the pranning corr,rr,ission f €corrrlrr€ndapproval of Subdivision l89-ll as shown on plans dated Noverhber 13, I9g9sith the following conditions 3
1. Require dedication of 40 feet arong the t,est Iot line of Lots I and 2to be combineal with the existing 2g feet of right-of_[a:/ for the full50 foot rrrral street -righ!;of;wa:, but ir',proverr,6nt of th-at right_of_wayworrrd not be required untir the rest of bogwood or Lake oriv6 isirr,proved or untir developn,ent in that area wourd require irrprovenrent.
nuFrber 7 .
we donrt need anot grading or
of
2.
3.
4
The developer shalt receive and coF,plythe Watershed Di str ict .
with any necessarlr perr,its fron,
The applicant shatr provide a 20 foot trail easer',ent along the eastboundary of Lots l and 2, Block r, z ir,rr,err',an Farrr and aloig the souEhboundary of Lot 2r BLock 1, zi:trr,erman FarFr froF, the southeist cornerCrir,son Bal, Road, Crirr,son Bay, subdivision.
The two approved septic sites on Lots l and 2shall be staked and preserved., Block I, Zira,err,an Far-Fr
5
6.
All voted in
carried wi th
An]r access, including a dock or boardwalk, to Lake2r Block I irould require a wetland perr,it as wouldrer',oval of vegetation in the area of the shoreline.
Plinnewashta fror, Lot
an:, dredging, or
There will be a cuI-de-sac at the end of a s!'steni of private drivewaysthat serve the orrners of Lots l and 2 and plins and specs for thatcul-de-sac shall be subF,itted to the City Engineer foi approval. Ifthe parties decide not to rrse the s]rster\ of irivate ariveialrs Uutrather use Lake Drive sor,ehow, the:l wiII still be responsibie forproviding a cul-de-sac at the end that Freets the appr6val of the cit],
Eng i neer .
favor except Conrad anda vote of 3 to 2.
Batzli nho opposed and the n,otion
Planning Cor',r',ission Meeting
Januar!' L7, L99g - Page 39
Conraal: Brian, the reason for your negative vote?
Batzli: I woulal prefer to see further stud:, on the route taken by the
power line with potential connection to Crir,son Bay Road at a future tir.e.
other than that, I think itrs fine. Ma!7be access along Lake Drive is the
way to 90 but I don't think that was studied because I think staff had the
irr,pression that we werenrt interested in that and I think that we nright be
if there was further florrght given it.
Conrad: I second that oPinion.
PUBLIC HEARI NG :
ZONING ORD I NANCE
CLARIFY LOT DEPTH
Conrad: Jo Ann,
EI Ison: who have
Batzli: Does this
grandfathereil in?
Conr ad : The]t rri 1 I
coFre to these before.
appl!, retroactivelY to
exceed this stanalard.
condltion ln here that
an1' of ther,? Would the]t be
says rre can 90 back.
A}IENDMENT TO HODIFY THE RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT ORDINANCE TO
REQUIREMENTS.
just as a point. This is a public hearing. were not ices
sent olrt?
Olsen: we sent otrt to all the People rrho have been interested in it.
Conrad: To associations with beachlots b:t chance?
Olsen: No.
Err,ings: was there pubtished notice?
olsen: It was prrblished in the paper anil then we sent it to those who have
been involved.
OI sen :
conr ad :
ElIson:
Conr ad :
EIlson:
Therers a
so the!,
So what,
No.
Just
weren I t inv i ted .Do we care?
table it?do vou rrant to
be sure theyrre notified for the CorrnciI.
conrad: No, thatrs not fair either.
with this. The:, t1'pical.I1, have what
The:t have a beach, their own lot and
ardalt.
I donrt think the:rrd have an1, issues
the!, want. Theyrve r'et the standards.
wetre not taking an1' of their rights
EF,rY,ings ! Right. Thatr s true.
Planning Corro,ission Heeting
Januar:, 17, l99g - Page 4g
El1son: Convince yoursel f?
Conrad: So the
believe that?
question right now is, do we all believe that. you donrt
Terr:r Forbord ! When you open the public hearing.
conrad: Right. we havenrt. or at least r donrt think r have opened it.Let Fe know if r have and rrrt stop tarking. r think we havenr t affectedan!,bod:, but we probabl]r should, it.s after the fact. To send therrr a noticefor the city council. r think thatis real negative because itrs the tast -
second and irhat have you.
O1sen: Werve notified everyrone thatrs ever been interested or has conre topublic hearings concerning recreational beachlots.
Conrad: O\rer what perlod of tirtre Jo Ann? Forever? 2 :rears?
Olsen: You knoi, llke Georgette Sosin and...
Conrad: So how niany do you think lrou sent out?
olsen: - Probabl], about 6...therers more focus than jrrst on the RobertPierce beachlot.
Conrad: Ever:rbod]r corrfortable going ahead?
Ellson: I can sleep tonight going ahead.
Erfiiings: r guess irhat r nant to know is, rreive got an ordinance and ittells us what werve got to do fror, notlce and have te done it.
Olsen: We have, :res.
Ennings: Okay.
Abrens: yourve notified everyone who was required to be notified?
Frrr,ings: Pubrication r think ls all thatis actually required and that,sbeen done.
E1lson: Itrs not like for propert:7 oirners and all these other aorts ofthings.
Conrad: Sorrretimes we like to go the extra rrrile.
Ellson: And we did. t{e went not onl!, the paper, rhich is alI we had butt,e also contacted an:rone rrhors been following this before. I'n cortfortableeith it Ladat. Letrs r,ove lt.
Conrads The paper doesn. t count. It legalllr counts but lt really doesnrtcount.
Planning Cor',r',isslon Meeting
Januar!' L7, ]-99g - Page 4I
EIIson:
1t's not
Conrad:
Ahrens:
conrad:
But wetve also been
1i ke we hand picked
6 people.
I rnr corrrf ortable .
Oka:r, re'1l proceed Jo Ann.
going after people nho tere following this.
then .
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Chairr,an Conrad called the public
hearing to order.
Terr:, Forbord: Good evening. My nar'e is Terrl' Forboril . Irn, vice President
of r,irndgren Bros.. In reading this docun,ent that staf f sent r',e, which was
ver1, gricious of therrr to do so, this is really the first _
oppoltunity that
we lrad being that we weren't developing an]' properties sir,ilar to what
Uerre consi6ering at this tirr,e that reall1' was aPplicable to this so in
reading it and til,ing to get up to speed wlth it, I eras reall:' iF,pressed on
how r,uih effort e-verlbodlris prrt into this and reading all this .16 1 qould
certainLy telt that ls Ueing stewards of the Cit1, and itrs waters anil itrs
rr,an1' f in3 lakes, that yorr hatl certainly agonizeil through a lot of this.
aeiig a past Pnblic ofiicial Frlself 1 Irve been in exactl]t the sar',e
situ;tion on the sar,e issue. In talking to some of the people that I see
who's nar,es are listed in the Minutes here, Irr., not srrre if everybody did
know this r,eeting was happening tonight becarrse nobodlt mentioned it to r'e
and Irn, qrrite suiprised just to see n,yself here because even in reading
this and talking to s olt,e of these r,anl' people over the last 3g to 50 to 90
days. these pe6p1e seerr,ed real intetested in it so I kept kinil of looking
at the doors aII night so sor,ething, I don.t know nhat exactl!' took place
but I saw it in the newspaper but the reason I saw it in the nerrsPaPer is
becarrse I n,ake that a haLit because this is what I do for a living. Brrt
Irn. here prin,aril1, because Lundgren Bros. currently or recentlY has secured
the opporlunity to develop a piece of land on one of the significant lakes
nittrln-yrour cil1t. I canrt at this tir,e share with you where that is or
whor., the seller is becarrse I have not subnritted b1' appllcatlon to staff,
which I will be doing so shortllr, and it wouliln't be fair for n,e to violate
that trust that I have rsith the seller at thls tifrre. we also are talking
to F,any of the other landowners within the city who own lakeshore proPert!,
or thei have contacted us wlthin the last 12 r,onths. I'1I give I'ou a
Iittle backgrounil of rrhere werre golng as far as real estate developers in
the 90rs and how that will probably, to rrhat degree that wlll Probabl!'
inpact the citlt of chanhassen. Lundgren Bros- has been fortunate in that
n,airy of the things that re have done have worked out quite well frort us in
our land planning and the ar,enities that rre have included in our
subdivisions, s oFre of which are ln !'our conrTrunlt]'. werve certainly r'ade
sor",e rtistakes but luckil.y we're doing a few things right and itrs working
well for us. We do not Lhink ttrat we will be able to continue ilolng what
we have been doing and be as srrccessful. In other words, rrhat werre going
to have to do is we're going to have to get better at that weire doing and
itis teall!, quite sirtple wllt ttrat is true. I'rr' sute you all read all the
Sinr€ stuff that I read on just the soclal and econor,ic trends that are
Planning Coro,ission eet i ng
. Januarl, L7, L990 - Paqe 42
happening right before us. The der.ographic trends. Therers going to befewer buyers. A rrajorit:, of ther, are going to be in celtaj.n age groups.Theyrre going to have less tir,e. Thewrre going to have n,ore discietionarl,incor',e and a-whole slew of other thinis th;t aie going to change theirhousing habits in the 90rs and ]rears to coF,e. We have, and noi just us butcertainry the experts and we try to listen to therr and arso rrrake-our owndecisions based on their anal]'sis, is that te are going to have to providea far greater ar,enit:, value in neighborhood cormrunities than we have beenable to in the past and precisely recreational ar,enities. Because peoplewant to recreate as close as thelr possibl:, can to hon,e. Now werrefortunate in the Twin cities area that we have such a strong park syster,.Hennepin Parks preserves, etc. and the nurrerous pubric ..ceis." that havebeen put on city lakes. we are fortunate that we have those but the:, atsocreate a problenr in their own right, as lrou probably have had to deal within 1'our own citlr and thatrs cong6stion in areas wheie those public u""ers""have.been deveroped. The trends by r guess r wourd say the peopre on thecutting edge of real estate developn,enf in looking int6 trre futrrre andtrying to sa]', welr how-do we provide people with these t!'pes of things andstirl sta:, environrtentally sensitive with what we have is-io tr!, to spreadthe use of recreational
_
areas out over possibr:r greater areas aid keep ther,Frore controlled rather than putting ther, in densetl, sn,all areas. The urbanland institute has done nur,erous siudies on that iust wittrin the tast 5years and recreational developnrent throughout the United states. Certainltrthe National Association of Hohe Buildqrs has been directly invorved inconjunction with that forr,er body in trlzing to find out ho; we can best dothis werl. And we have gone to nurr,erous sir',inars arl around the countrvsponsored by therr, anil and planning institute on how to provide the thinisthat. we feel people are going to want in the l99g's. tirat preciselt ;;;;of those things are directl-], related to recreational beachlits. I F,ean
!f9y'." not alwa:rs called recreational beachlots. Ever!, cii1, nas adifferent nan,e for it it seerr,s like but for what we're lalking aborrt heretonight, that certainly ls the issue. M:, only concern in rea6ing ttris, indI.rr, not,exactly sure if I totall!' undersland lvery aspect of rrhat isproposed here and erhat rrent into it but r know as-steiards of the citw andplanning coro,issionelg what ]rou try to do is :rou tr:' to put son,ething-together that acconrplishes a whore tot of things. it's iear tough t5 cort eup wlth a perfect slrs terr, and oftentirrreS sonr€ oi it is subjective becauseyou realryr donrt know and nunbers are purled out of hats and say, well thissounds like a good nutrber and why is it a LOg feet versus 95 fe6i or I05feet. You.have to pick sonething so ]rou pick sortrething. g1, concern inreading this, was that- sorr,etimes by picking nuFrbers or-putting in certainPhrases, you sortewhat handcuff lroui olrn abilities and lriu cerfainll,handcuff the potential for r,aybe nicer deveropr,ent. x6w r know whit you'rerr,ore afraid of is the negative developn,ent an- lrou end up trying to pirtsorrre rules in to contror that but if in the lr,eantirte of rtrat- th;t doas isthat it r.akes it very difficult for a developer to bring in a proposal that
i9_u 1,:y realllz- want to see. It rr,a:' rt,ake lt difficult. -I wasnit iure, Idldnrt get a chance to read far enough into thls to see if what ts proposeahere-would also apply to puD's. That t,as a qrrest.ion r had tonight ior-staff . . If i_t does apply_ to pUD's, it would Jtitf st1rr,,ie sol'.e of thecreativity that pUD's exist for.
Conrad: It worrld.
Terry Forbord: Okay. I'11 get precisely to an iten, in here that I see.
Therers actuall!, 2 ot 3 sites. Irlt currentll, working on 4 proposed
developr',ents on significant water bodies in the sestern subrtrbs and Irr'
going throrrgh these ver], saFe issues with the staffs in those coFFtunities.
necause itti as in.pottant to us as a developer nhors goinq to have nrlllions
of dollars investeil in a recreatlonal cott'thunit]r, itrs as inportant to us or
r,aybe even rtore so that we donrt screu it rrp. Because if it turns sour or
itis an envirorutental problerr, or it becomes a negative marketing scenario
or whatever, we have a trer'endouS aFrOu,rt tO lose. And So irhat Yrerre realllz
trying to do is to nork closel:' with citles and r suPPort recreationar
beichlot ordinances. Don't r,lsunderstand rte. we are aII for that. we
think they need to be, you have to have soF,e kind of constraints of what
can be done. H!, onllt fear is, will this r,ake it in,possible for r,e to bring
1'ou a developrr,ent that I think you nay be happlz with. Not.thereis always
lhe variance that one can cor.,e in and aPPl!, for to the ordinance but in
going through this.
conrad: Let Fre just realry quickllz get in, what lrou see in front of yotr
tonight realL!' was a resPonse to one particular change. The ordinance
prevlousll, hatl a 109 foot rr,inirr,unr lot depth. The.words -that ]'ou see here
ionight aie to solve that so thare is s orr,e flexibility in the I00 feet. So
we hiven, t reviewed other basically. We havenr t really, this ordinance has
been on the books for r.,u1ti ltears lnd really whatrs in front of us tonight.
yourre addressing a lrhoLe lot of other things that werenr t issues as r,re
reviewed this. we took r,rhat rre had before and basically the wording is to
provide son,e intent for this ordinance but also to provide sor,e flexibility
so that we can folloi{ up the intent Frore than the absolute nurtbers. What
is in here has been elinination of a couple nur.,bers which is that concerned
you for flexibilitl' purPoses. Basically the draft tonight in front of us
gives a developer of a beachlot a little bit r',ore flexibilit!' so if one end
of tne beachlot is onll' 90 feet, that doesnrt preclude that fror'" becon,ing a
beachlot. so I just winted vou to know what we're reviewing tonight. I
think yorr,re addiessing a r.,u-h broader scale. VIe'II listen but itrs not in
our, it wasnit ln the scope of this change.
Terry Forbord: Oka!,, just to niake sure I unalerstand
pr ir.,ar1, concerns that I did have in here. This I00
lssue ln here and itrs the depth I belleve frort the
rr,ark to the lot Line which could be...
Plaining Cor,rr,ission Meeting
Januar!, ]-7, !999 - Page 43
then one of thefoot nur.ber, is an
ordinarl' high water
Ertt lngs: Thatrs been taken out.
Terry Eorbord: oka]r. I r.ust be misunderstand ing what Ittt readlng here and
I apologize if I am.
Etrr.lngs: Thatra alright.
Conrad: lgg fee|- was a standard before. It no longer is there. lthat
doeEnrt mean that lt'a not going to be there.
Ellson: After it goes to Council rlght?
conrad: well even after r talk aborrt it. rt is the etirtrination of thatnurrrber. rnstead we repraced it with the intent of a buffering fror', thesurrounding area. If :rou developed a propert]' as a Lundgren Bros.developrr,ent r r think you would be concerned with brrffering and distancefron, the neighbors.
Planning Coro,ission Heeting
Januar!, L7, l99g - Page 44
Terrlt Eorbord: Absol utel]r.
Conrad: Because itrs part of your parcel. Butbuffering it frortr one developn,ent to the next,so thatrs what werre trying to get across here.
this also talks aboutthe neighbor on either side
Terry Forbords So the Lgg foot nunber has been rer,oved?
Conrad: Itrs been renoved.
Hr.Ir,ings: welI, in this proposal.littte bit. r think that whatrschange to the ordinance adds notflex ibi 1ty.
I think Ladd's under stati ngwritten down here as proposeda little flexibility brrt a lot
the case aas the
of
would a llow wou
rs ver v
Ellson: As tong as it nreets our intent.
Er'r,ings: And would provide you with broad guideJ.inesto cor'e in with, the old statrrte was very rigid. ,Thisflex ible.
that
one
Ter r:, Forbord: ItI had to deal with
was
and
rigid. It eras a Littte easier to understand rrhathere itrs kind of ar.biguous but thatrs oka:r.
Conrad: And thatrs a problem becausedeveloper and thatrs a problerr that Inow.
we havenr t set a r,ark for wou
have with the wa:r lt,s noried
for a
r ight
Terry Forbord: But there's sorr,e benefit to that because you stirr have thefinal sa1' an!'wa]r. But r do have a coupre just recor,r,rendai i ons ondersection 2g-253 under intent. _ r_ rrould just- recorr,end a coupre that are justword changes because r plcked thert out, r just took words -out of lrour oinparagraph-and placed therr in other areas blt based upon experi"".6, it-says, it is recognized b:, the Clt:' that the use of fatesttoie U1, n,oitipf"Partles. Rather than sa:, is, I would sa:, rr,a:, be because that's an awfulassultrpti.ve to sa!, that the], are an inteniive-use because th-1, necessariil,arenrt.. The:, rtay be. The:r could be. And I would iust recoirr,end that y6u,it was just a thought. - Furtherr,ore, an intensive uie of lakeshore that-r,a],be present confricts with the neighboring uses of rakeshore or the use ofother lakeshore on the satr,e rake. Frrrther, beachlots generate corrplaintsand it says because. Basicall], that should sa:r, r *"ui lr, our opiiion,further, beachlots F,a:, generate cor,plaints beciuse if they ire notrr,aintained the safi,e standards. Beciuse erhat :rou r re .""o.irlg that if lrouhave a beachLot, itrs going to generate a conltaint anil thaf's notnecessarily true either. Just in the tours oi sor,e of the finestdevelopn,ents an:rrrhere in the united states and southern california andFl.orida and Arizona that I've gone to, therers not ver:, r,any beaches in
Planning Con,rr,l ss i on Meeting
Januar!' L7, L99g - Page 45
Ar i zona
conv er se
conrad:The good beachlots are r,aintained and the bad ones arentt.
other than nran Frade ones
of that.
of
We
but !,ou'11 find that it can be just the
Terrlr forbord: And there are sotrre single far"lly hor,e lots on the lake that
are absolute the pits so in just reading your own here, Irm not sure, I
donrt think thatts what :tou realll' rrreant. So I t ould just suggest, itrs
very well irritten anil I think cor.,rt issioner Emrrings is the one that kind of
led the charge in this and he's done really a good job. If I could just
suggest those few changes to that because I think it continues with what
1,ou-were really trl,ing to say there. But if that 1r0 foot nunber has been
elin,inated, I guess I was reading it out of another part of the staff
report frort a previous lr,eeting, that ee erouldn't have a problen, h,lth it.
The reason rre rrould, if you want n,e to get into that, therers a whole bunch
of Planning reasons whlt that lgg foot' nur,ber coulil becoFre a Problert'
Beciuse ltou n,a1, end trp in an area, let's sa:7 that fror, just- an ecological
reason, 6nvironr.,ental reason, that this endeil uP being the best P1ace to
put the ilock but it was only 75 feet frorr, the lot line. well, then r,hat do
:'ou do? what if you had to cut down an acre of beautlful 100 year tree
itand to put the dock there because that was the onr]t Lgg foot sPot so
there I s a nuFrber of reasons rrhy that number can becoFre a, coul,d becor,e a
ProbIeF,. Thatr s all I have to sa:' right now but if you have an!' questions
iegarding anltthing, Ird do nr:, best to answer then, for you.
Conrad: Thank !,ou. I think basically this ordinance, the w
sorrnds like ltrs solving the key lssues that :'ou have. Othe
Is there a F,otion to close the public hearing?
a:,
r
it' s wr i ttenpublic input.
Batzli noved, Ellson seconded to close the public
favor and the motion carried. The Public hearing
Conrad: Joan, what do You thlnk?
Ahrens: I donrt have
can see that has gone
favor of the ord inance
Olsen: Whatr s on the back
back with, his re*ordlng.
stateF,ent.
questions and I don't have realllt
forever without Fe so I think that
Stever s written it noer.
hear ing. AII voted ln
was closed.
an1, renarks.itts, Irr, in
Cit!, Attorney cart e
to r"ake an lntent
any
on
as
I
Batzli: I think this gentlemanis coNnents regarding the intent statelr,ent
are accurate and I would prefer to tone down the intent stateF,ent to n'ay be
an intenslve use and his other suggestions. I had one question as to hrhy
7(c) rlas elin,inated and r,!' Iast q[estion is, in the proposed ordinance,
att;chn,ent ?r it doesn't lppear to ne that the intent stateF,ent got ln
there. Is that correct?
the report ls what the
took that ever further
Batzli: This isntt the final one? okay. Could you address wh!' 7(c) was
el in,inated?
Planning Cor',rr,ission Meeting
Januar], L7, L99g - Page 46
olsen: r think the reason that that rf,ds E€Frov€d rras because it was pracedelserrhere. It just wasnrt, it got into Section 13. Itrs just sa]ring thatit does have to have the brrffei. we felt that it didnit ieed to-be-repeated. I think it's referrlng to paragraph 13. 13 was actuall:, sa]ringthat lrou need the buffer. Saying the whole thing. I think it was Just-repeating that.
Batzli: I guess Ird have toagain but thatrs all I had toin,proverrent to the ord i nance .
go back and look at the
Cortrlrr€ht. I think itrs original ord inanceactually a good
Conrad: Annette?
Erlson: r like it. r agree that we courd rrake it a rittle F,ore gentlewith the tern, n,ay. r especiarly liked having an intent statement. r thinkit's worth
- thinking about when we write sor,e other sticky ones because itwill nrake interpretation by anybod!, :rears to c oFre a lot easier.
Conrail : Oh biaseil Ur. Er,r,ings.
En,n,ings: Please understand, r didnrt take a rot of tir,e because r openedup nrlz dictater and basically threw up and sent :,ou L,hat f aia Uut. i ug.e"with the changes that the slaff has ltade. Arr of the changes they nrade,r',ade it better. r further, r think that in ttrat riiit-".ni"n". ii ttre-'intent staterrent it shorrrd be changed that it n,ay be .n ini"r,"ire use andthe second sentence, that because corrrd sinpty bi changed to rrhen. Thatthe!, generate conrplaints when they,re not rr,ilitainea aia thit woulO sotveand I think those are appropriate changes to make. fhe onlg, other thing Ithought. of. I thought 9f !r9 things since. One would Ue in the .re.1, "iderhere it sa]'s to the extent feasible, the Cit:, r.,ay ir,,lose Ihese conditionseven after approval 0f the beachrot. r question ,t"tir". te could reall],get away with that. I think-it's iripof,tant to tr], to. If the City finasit -necessary based rrp6n conflicts wiitr tne use of'otner liolertlr, I thinkI'd add therer.or upon failure to r,aintain propert:, ana iEiilf oi '
equ i pn,entor sor,ething like that-just to F,ake it cleai tiat ?ailure. A confrict inuse or a failure to nraintain can set off a process whereb:, rre can go backand tr:' and n,ake ther, adhere to sotr,e kind oi a standard. 'The othei thing rthought of was, r know for a fact that the beachrots on the lake r live 5nhave expanded noticeabry since rrve been there. rhere ii no baserine. rdon-rt know. particurarl:7 for ones that eere grandfathered in, which areProbabll, alt of then, on Minnewashta, we donrf know what they started tithbecause they shourdntt be.abre to expand the use or trrer.,
-without con,ing inand getting under our ordinance. And there,s no baserine there and r justwondered lf there should be in the ordinance and this ls rt aybe a separatei."y:-!o be taken up rarer. soF.e kind of a reportlng i"q"iil.""t in 1990or -1991 rrh_ere the], have to tell us irhat the:/ hlve foi eqriipr.,ent. FilI outa forrr,. what do you have for equipr',ent on your beachlot-. who has boats on:rour beachlot. How r,an!, boats and what klnd are parked at frour docks. -- -
what_ sizes lrou've got so that we have, finall]r, a-baseline ?or all of thesebeachrots for the future if one looks like it;s expanding. r thought Ralrbeinstead of, Irve alhra],s thought in the past that ;;-";;;ii go around andPttotograph ther,. If :rou go out real eaily on a Sunda], -o.nir,g, ever:rthingis just sitting there and 1,ou could just lhotog..pt iir"n -ina
1,ou'A have for
a record but even better than would probabl]t be to just have a recording
requirer,ent. A one tirte rePorting reguirenrent because the!'rre aII run by
associations. we could have ther., report so that we have a database. The
other thing Irni waiting to hear is your colt'Frents on the I00 foot. I
thought that r.ra s very Provocative.
conrad: I just want to react to ltour recording deal. Holc nranlt beachlots
do we have in town? 19 or 15? Jo Ann, do you recall?
Olsen: l,lore than that.
En,n,ings: Yeah. I guess so.
Olsen: Wet ve done that. I mean irerve done what, just like drive out ln
the... but to get ther, to fill out sor'ething and slgn it...
Ellson: I F,ean thelt con,e anil go.
Olsen: It's not that r'uch, that lr,an]' that ite cottldnr t do it'
conrad: rt n,lght be interesting to Photograph
perrrritted to be doing or to set a standard-
and to co['Pare to what their
Errrrrings: But ltou see the ones that are grandlfathered
theyr re perF'itted to do doesn't F,ean an!,thing because
aPproved as beachlots anyhra:,. The:'rre just there.
Batzli: But at least yourd have a baseline photograph
Er,r,ings: Exactl]r. Sarre idea. But :'ou canIt compare
only use it as 1'our baseline for the future.
in, when you sa1, what
the:' were never
for the
it back.
future.
You corrld
Planning Conu',ission Meeting
Januar:' 17, L99g - Page 47
Conrad: werre talking about an adFrinstrative function. Nothlng thatrs
worked in here.
Conrad: The intent. r think there are a couple words and r think orrr
f riend frort Lundgren rt,ade sonre good colrfiients. The onl:'/ thing that I'il like
in there, where it talks about the intense use of lakeshore. I also want
to sa!' the intense uae of the lake. It salts lakeshore but really the best
safet!, valve, the best safety a lake has is a standaril for how rr,any houses
can go on the lake. When :7ou allow rr,ulti units to use a srr'alI piece of
tatel it does intensify. Not onl1' the land use but the lake use so r think
there are a couple places where that could be stuck ln and Ir11 let staff
figure that out but I really do believe that the origlnal intent of the
beichlot was to Protect the lake and the surroundling Propert!' owners. It
:li,as a 5g/59 deal and I would like that in there. And then I think soF,e of
these otiier words, the ma},'s or mightts or irhatever 1 nright soften up that
but I still like the intent staternent. I think ltrs Pretty good. SPeaking
of the 100 foot. As ire take the 190 foot standard out of this ordinance
and Jo Ann rrr, going to Pick on you because ltou know thls better than steve
and lrourve been-aroundl with this one for a wtrite. The thing that we fall
back on as ire take that l-09 foot out are the intent to buffer stateF,ents
but we donrt have a standard so lre donrt have any buffering standard. So
Planning Cor',rt ission Meetlng
Januar!' L7, ]-99g - Page 48
t hat do ire use when Lundgren Bros. cones in anal sa:rs weII, how do we reviewthis? Before se said lgg foot nas a buffer or it did sortething. what canwe fall back on in terrr,s of a distance. we can farr back on bushes andthings like that to buffer but what do ere set for a standard noir? Thestandard is gone.
orsen: Right. For the depth. you still have the area and the frontage.
Conrad: Does that do it?
EForings: Sure. I think so. youtve got 2A0 feet
3g rggg square feet. yourve got 150 feet of depth.
and :rou've got to have
Conrad: See, I think :'ourre right. Is Steve right on that?
Thatrs an average depth. We had this conversation in detailtir,es.. Iou can have, n,y exarrple was a n,illion foot deep piecefoot rride. you could have a flag in essence and not haire-a deep
Ertdhings: But there we can resort to our lntent stater,ent andit.to prevent the weird anarr,oly. yourre never going to finj'going to rrant to devote, having 209 feet on a like iedicatedin this town in these tirv,es is saying sor,ethin!. tt"";i"---tto str:etch it to 806 so they donrt have rtuch depth.
Batzli: Thatis true. Thelrtd have to have it be extrerr,el:r...
BatzI i :
llUItr€EOUS
thatrs 1Iot.
Conrad:
sense?
the rest of
an:tbod:, who I sto a beachlotgoing to want
conrad: Letrs tark about a sitrration, one end of the beachlot courd be rgfeet. The other end corrld be 200 feet. Is that a probler,?
EIIson: Not if
So as
you
long
buffer.
as ire buffer that 10 foot weire okay. Does that rhake
Ellson: Right theytre probabl:,
Conrad: WeLI, rreid force therr
Err'rrings: ExactI!'.
Put evel:Tthing down at the long end.
to do that.
Conrad: Werre taken orrt the 4 foot standard. The arbitrar!, 4 footstandard which nas alt a:ra arbitrary but teII ne nor, at leait that gave r,ea_ crue or gave r,e an indication that we werenr t going to, retra tarl aboutthe propert!, that we saw tonight on uinnewashta iext to 6rinson Bayr. The:,PotentialL:r, well no longer could but letis sa!, there was tOO acre there.Letrs sa:7 and it used to be !00 acres wlth, ani that is a beachtotpotential right there on the site that we saw tonight. Oka1z. Now we have100 acres. well. no longer do we have. we have 2g acres b-ut 1et,s pretendit was 100 acres. Now they potentialllr could get, so on 100 acres ere couldprobablyr 3 units per acre out there. i donrt [now, whate""i tt" nurtrberrr,lght be so there could be 259 homes accessing thai beachtoi. And lt.s ar1
Plahning Coro,ission Meeting
Januar!, !7, I99g - Page 49
ELlson: No way, lteah.
Conrad: Irlr sorry. Explain that to n.e one Fiore ti&e Jo Ann. Irt', lookinq
at that but rrake F,e understand.
olsen: what thatis sa:'ing is that 8ot of the dwetling units which have the
right to access, shall be located within LTOOU feet. What that used to
metn is that you couLd only have the area right to the recreational
beachlot coula onl]t go a certain. It couldnit go across the street and down
the block. Then f6r-rural, we just ar',ended that so that would llrtit where
the], were going to be outside oi that L.ggg so we said we need to lin,it the
nuFrber sor'e other way...
what I s being
here is 11 259
be within the
Conrad: So only those houses that would appear ln Lots l and 2.
En,n,ings: And to Put that in perspective Latld. if you look at
done out there, this 2g acres. Thls line right f r or', here to
feet. So that other 80 acres thatrs out here isnrt going to
area that can be served b!'/ the beachlot under that standard.
Errfi,ings: or if sewerBasicall!' it eould be
rras out there so the:, could
that area or sor,ethlng like subdivide those.
it. Not too far off.
conrad: Is that a Proper interPretation Jo Ann or PauI?
olsen: Right . These 80t neeil. . .
contiguous and that was another, I think whether contiguorrs is in here.
StiII in the ordinance, that ras key but it could have been. In this
propertlr, if they, didnit do what they did tonight, the!' could have had 250
houses contiguous to a beachlot and what would our ordinance do in that
si tuation?
Er,r.ing s: A certain nurnber have to be within Lrggg feet also don't forget.
olsen: Right.
Err,rr,lngs: But I don r t know how that af fects !'our hPothetical but that I s
another requirer,ent.
Olsen: For urban recreational beachlot, 80t of the drrelling rrnits rhich
have the rights have to be wlthin Lr0O0 feet and then for rural
recreatlonaL beachlots, a r,ax iF,u['i of 59 direlling units. So ltou still have
that.
Ellson: so if you had :'our lgg acres, :'ou woutd not f inil 80* of the people
within L,ggg feet.
Olsen: Thatrd be 259.
Conrad: so if 20 houses were in those two Parcels, another 201 of that 29
o( another 4 houses could have beachlot access rights so He're talking
about 24? Not the o|-}l,er 2gg that could have been rrapped into it.
Et'rrrings' But
And rraybe thisbig parcel of
:rour houses onlakeshore. Iin beachLots.
therers another thing that operates here too though Ladd.gentler'an would speak to us about it but :rourve got a greatland. When yourre building on lakeshore, lrou irant to putthe lakeshore. Therer s a lot of value in selling a house ondonrt know that you i.ant to be chewing up all lrour frontage
Conrad: No. What you want to do is shrink thetell all the propert)' owners that the], do havehas been done. So the str,alLer, ]rourre right.
&,rr,i ngs: Therers sone kind of a trade-off.
Conrad: There absolutely is. you donrt erant to give ah,a], a lot of yourlakeshore because thatrs reaII:r sellable and verl' profitaBle but :rou dolike, 90t of the developn,entrs going to be off the lake and whatr s thesales tool :tou use to- sell the propert!, or sel-I the house? He]r, :rou cango, werve got a beachlot for !rou. Itrs a great sales tooL and itis a great
arrren i ty but the probl.eF, is the intensity oi use. r donrt tlke the 4 fietbecause that rdas' r re',er,ber wben we gol that. That iras, werve neverapplied it. Yourve reported it but ii,s never F,ade a diiference so r don,tthink thatrs a fair standard but r donrt erant to rose the standard of, youknow again the intensitlr on that propertlr, I donrt want to lose that. -
ybe rrnder the section 13 thatts saying to insrtre appropriatethe City-rtray inpose conditions. Ma!'be ]rou couta laa ior,ethingjust saying that ere could lir,it the nw.Ler of households.
conrad: r donrt have a r',ag ic nur,ber and r donrt nant to do that. r wantto feel assured that rre havenrt through this reall:, opened up a vastl],erpandeal use of that small beachlot. Thatrs what would happen.
Olsen: We haveni t changed.
aFrouht of beachlot but :roulake access. Thatr s what
Olsen: Ma
buf fer i ng ,like a (q)
Conrad: Other than
than the 4 feet andre're okay.
the 4 feet. We haven, t changed anything Jo Ann otherwerre probabl:/ oka:'. I just l{ant soF,ebodlr to teII me
Er'rrings: You I re oka:r.
Conrad: Youive had your hand up. Go ahead.
Terr:' Forboril: Thank you. rwo things car.e up that rerrinded me that rdidlnrt aaldress a coupre issues that i thought r should point out for yourbenefit. .Conversely to what :rou irere just dlscusslng, the exact oppoilteis happenlng. we no longer wilL be deveroping rakesiore Lots. Arl four ofour n'ajor projects in the Twin cities, three of ttrer., being on significantTwin Cities lakes, there will be no lots platted on the like. fhelakeshore wirr becone corrrrrroh area for the entire neighborhood coro,unity.The DNR supports this because alr of a sudden what y5u're doing is the'PuPlfc beaches, the publie accesses are so intensified that th61,rreporruted and it creates a probrerr. with traffic and so the DNR supports the
Planning Con,rr,i ss i on Meeting
Januar:' 17, l99O - Page 5g
recreational beachlot concept as Ilm discussing it because now that yourre
dloing is taking a private area through private develoPF,ent and creating a
nice neighborhood cor,rr,rrn i ty. Yourre making it so a Person who never could
afford to have water at their doorsteP so to sPeak because the], canrt
afford a hatf n,iIIion dollar hor',e. $Lsg , gg0 .gg-5175 ,ggg . gs-$185 , sg0 . gg
hon,e now, those people can go take their children right down to their beach
and tt!e:, can fish off their pier. tla:tbe they have a boat landing where
the!, can use lt during the daytirr,e hours. I rrean these are the kind of
things :rourre going to be seeing in the 90's in the nore successful
developrr,ents. one of the things that I didn't point out-
Conrad: Let Fre j uF,p on that. Yourve got soFre property up on Silver Lake
that ]toutre now building on in the Near ltountain area and there was a
potenaiar for a great Passive access there for all of :tour new residences
ind peter was in-here and he put, he did not irant to and this l{as irithin
the last 4 F,onths or 6. He did not want to Provide access to Silver Lake.
Contrast that to what !,ou just said.
Terr:/ Forbord: The reason is econor,ics and on the front entl you have to
plan fror, the beginning. You canrt be down into the final aniendrrent of a-pup and tr!, to n,ake thit all work fror, an economic standpolnt. Yop have to
start it in ttre beginning. It canrt kind of change. It'd be nice if I'ou
corrld and we acttrally have two projects it rrould be nice if we could do
that in but econorr,icilllt it's got to work or therers no sense even doing
it. Thatrs a good point and those are points that Planning cott'$' i ss ioner s
should ask so the1, understand what the developers are doing. rtrs not a
ganre of n'irrors oi a snoke contest or an:'thing' Itts Pure econor"ics' we
ieel that and what Irn describing to ltou for our future developn'ents, if we
plan it right fron, the front end, we can r,ake it work econor,ically for the-long run. But I did want to Point out one other thing while I had an
opportunit:, to speak is that ire felt also that the 3g rggg and 20 1000 square
foot requireFrents were possibl]t a littte too strlct. r canrt rer'er'ber hoe'
the ordinance was written. I thlnk it had a nunber of units off the lake
or sotr,e f orn,ula f or f igrrr ing out the nutber of docks and it was soFrewhat
restrictive as rdell but this nakes lt a litt1e even lTrore restrictive.
Era'ings: this is not a change. Thatrs alira!'s been there.
Terr], Eorbord: This has alwalts been there? I aPologize.
Errdrrings: No, that I s f ine .
conrad: Let F,e j rrr,p in on that one because ltou brought it up' rf you Put
I house on the lake you need about that rr,uch lakeshore or square footage
for a house. a single far',ily resldlences. You neeal 20,ggg feet. whatr s
the difference and thatrs one fanilSr of 3'or 4 peoPle using that 2g,ggg
feet. Now what !7ou're suggestlng, by saying that|s too ttuch1 lioui re
suggesting having r,ultl far,ilies cor',lng into the sarre lot. See that
doesnr t Fake sense .
Terrlr Forbord: Correct. See but youtre assrrr,ing that single far',ily
dwellings are less intense than rr,ulti famlly and iB not necessaril!' trrre.
rrean beaause I have lived on Lake Minnetonka and the PeoPIe next iloor to
I
Planning Cor,r',ission Meeting
Januar:' L7, l99g - Page 51
Planning
January
Corr,rt,i ss i on MeetingL7, l99g - Page 52
Itre, I r ve had 50 people over everlr day ofcan go down to one of the nicer townhonresthere'd be nobody on their beach all weeksituations thatrs the rral, it would be butholds true.
Terr:, Porbords It could. Thatrs
Eldr'ings: No, it does . Not could.
Ellson: That particular one?
beachlots is this. Therers one within 3 or 4irtpacts rr,e ver:, L i ttle. B:, God, it ir.,pacts the
possible.
It does.
the week in the sunaretinre and you
con,r,unities on the lake and
Iong . So llhat you'd think norrr,alit doesnit F,ean that it alwaws
conrad: Not always but prinarlry if we arrow, what do we arlow for abeachlot Jo Ann? Hot rrrany r,otorboats?
Olsen: Overnight storage is 3.
conrad: so on a typicar s.rFrrrr€E weekend, you are going to have 3 r,otorboatsgoing rtrost of the tirrre. Single famiLy, Irou will 6arr"-on" because therer s
9nly,,therers typically, only. one r.,ajoi rtotorboat so I reall:, challenge theless intense. I don i t bu:r lhat arglr.,ent. I think ttte nun,U'ers are theregeneralllt. Not always but the nur,bers reall]' inilicate if yourve got 2qfar,ilies using.a lot and lrou can have 3 overiight boats, tiere ar6 going tobe 3 boats r,oving on Satuiday and Sunday.
Terr!, Forbord: Thatrs possible. The other thing the:, can do is go down tothe public access in the public beach and intensifl, t'hai- sr"af ter area aswelr rather than dispersing it around the lake so ihere is a coupre ofthings to look at. Jo Ann raised another question thatrs going to probablecoFe before ]rou and thatts the Lrggg foot d-istance or tne 6gt. rn areasrrhere there is this t!'pe of developnrent rrhere the rakeshore, the co!,pretelakeshore is cortr,on area, :7ou can see how that ftia], pose a piobter, foi lrouin the futrrre on s or,e of the developrrent of lrour i,tirei-f afis.
Ettt ings. The test to F.re onhouses of r,e and it reallypoeple next door to it.
Er,rrrings: Yeah, and I don t t p,ind having one four lots awalz but if sorr,ebodlrwas proposing to put one in right next to rne, I'd be realil, viofeniii-----opposed to it and f ironder if you wouldnr t feel the sarr,e wi1,.
Terr:' Forbord: Well to rr,e the ua!, I oorrld look at lt is what is theproposed use. How is. it going. to be regulated and how are the!, going tobuffer it. Man:' of the sir,e tnings you brought up tonighi. --
Errtrrings: So :rou think that our approach then lsn I t a bad one?
Terry Eorbord: Oh no. I think
- !,our approach, I corrrrrr€hd 1,ou highl:, f or lt.r think all cities should do thtl but what they need to riarize is thatrecreationar beachlots are going to beconre r,ore cor,r,onplace. one of theproblerrs is that wben-you start talking that, what yroo'u",,"il1, do is lookback and see irhat :rourve got. you rook at, ihis is-a recreational beachlot
Planning Cor,n,i ss i on Meeting
Januar!' L7, L99g - Page 53
because this is one re've had here for 20 years andl here's one for 1,
years.
Erro.lngs: And itrs 25 feet wide and you've got 150
Terrl, Eorbord: we're talking about L,ggg ox lr,gg
beachlot and lrorr wi I I see n,ore of that . As F,uch as
r,ake econor',ic sense because then the average Person
the. . .
houses.
feet of recreational
can be provlded antl
can have a piece of
Conrad: Therer s a lot of Iogic in uhat yourre sa:ring. If
really llke those concepts. I donrt think rre'd close down
to n,ake that haPpen.
yOU Carre
figur ing
in,
out
I
how
Terr:, Forbord: Okay, well thank !,ou very rr,uch for letting F.e talk.
Conrad: That's okay. okay, I was talking rrasnrt I? I think I finlshed.
werre all satisfied that ere havenit lntensified or allored r,ore folks, a
vastl:, intense use of that. I think that makes sense to me. 4 feet is
out. Thatrs it. Is there a r,otion?,
Ellson: It11 rrove the Planning Cor,r',ission recoroiend ar,ending Section
2S-263 of the Chanhassen Code by adding whati s in our packet. Changing the
intent stater,ent to add, use of lakeshore bt' r.,ultiple parties r'ay be an
intensive use of the lake that nray present conflicts. And the line that
sa],s, further, beachlots Fra!, generate corrplaints because if they are not
r'aintained. Also, the tast paragraPh, to the extent feasible, the City rr,ay
ir',pose such conditions even after aPProval of the beachlot if the CitY
finds it necessary based upon conflicts with the use of other Propert], or
failure to r',aintain property. with those changes. were there any other
changes that lrou wanted? Oh, r.,aintain ProPerty and equiPrrent?
Err'rt' i ng s : Oh lre ah .
EIlson: okay. wer ll add equiptr'ent.
Er,r,ings' Iill second it. The only discusslon I have is you changed, it
should intensive use, in the intent staterr'ent, intensive use of lakeshore
and lakes. rs that irhat !'ou reant? You just wiped out lakeshore and just
put ln lakes?
Conrad: I wanted bo!h.
EIlEon: Okay. Yourre right.
Conrad: I rranted lakeshore and
Ellson: okay. Itd be willing
Err,rrrlngs: And then the rest of
Ellson: To sound better.
I changed it to just EaY 1akes.
lakes.
to change that.
the sentence may neeal a llttle alteratlon.
Er rings' Yeah. Because it salrs, that n,a], present confLlcts withneighboring uses of rakeshore or the use of other lakeshore on the sarrrelake or the lake itself should be added then.
Batzli: steve, in the intent staterrent where you said that we require thefollowing conditions for recreationat beachroti. we used to be a Littrebit rtrore broad and loose than that by saying that sor,ethlng about we corrldirr'pose other conditions. rn other words, the forrowlng stindards appl:' torecreational beachlots, conditional use, 1n addition t5 such otherconditions ds Frd! be prescribed. Do ue want to give ourserves that luxurystill or are these the onllr conditions you wilt ever?
Err,n,ings: I think under 13, I did that with the buffering. The 1astsentence in the introduction of 13 sa:rs, the City r',ay impose conditions toinsulate beachlot activities including but not r:.r.,itea ti. r did it therewith the staterr,ent of what r felt was kind of the standard iterrs.
Batzli: So yourre really, yourII have the ability to adjust bufferingcapabirities but not other conditlons? rf other unique 6onditions u.i".,you really rrra!, not have that capability.
Planning Cor,nri ss i on Meeting
Januar!' 17, L99g - Page 54
En,n,ings: WelI :rou know, I worlldnt t be adverse to
Batzli: I donrt know. I didnrt know if yorr had
Etrn,ings:
BatzIi:in here?
No, not really.
l{ourd we ever feer corr.fortabre in imposing a condition that sasnrt
that change.
considered that or not.
stood out as being
I donrt think werd have
know about the other
Etnrings: Yeah. I think so. If sorrething just
necessar:r for...because of sonre unique feature,problem with that. At least under 13. I don'tsections.
anv
Batzli:
there sothe City
addition
I guess I rrould bave proposed that h,e wouLd have left that inthat the last sentence of the intent staterrrent reads, therefore,requires the following conditions for recreationaL beachlots into such other conditions as rrray be prescribed in the perrtit.
Hrrrrings: I like that.
Conr ad :Sav that again.
Batzli: The last sentence would read, therefore,following conditions for recreational beachlots inconditions as Fra:, be prescribed in the pern.it.
Err'rrrings: Sure. That gives us flexibility and thatts good. I think.
the Ci t!, requiresaddition to such
the
o ther
E1lson: Where would lrou put it?
Plahning Coro,ission Heeting
Januar!' L7, ].99g - Page 55
Batzli: Right at
beachlots and the
EIIson:
COFAr€ht.
Era,ings: Second.
ElIson FroV@d I Et'ttring s seconded that the Planning Cor.,rr,ission r€coFar€hd
ar,ending Section 2g-253 of the Chanhassen Cit!' Code b1' adding:
Section 20-263r Intent. Baseal uPon exPerience, it is recognized by the
citY that the use of lakeshore b!' r'ultiPle parties rtra:t be an intensive use
of lakeshore anil the lake that Fra! present conflicts irith neighboring uses
of lakeshore or the use of other lakeshore on the sarrre lake or the lake
ItseIf. Further, beachlots rra! lfenerate coFrPlaints because if thelt are not
rraintained to the sarte stanalards as slngle far.,il1' lakeshore lots-
Therefore, the City requires the follot ing conditions for recteational
beachtots in addition to srrch other conditions that I\a!' be Prescribed in
the pern,i t :
the tail end of the intent staten'ent. Between the erord
following.
No probler,. Ird be happ:t to ar,end the r,otion to add Brian's
Hours of use i
Planting of trees and shrubsi
and b], ar,ending section 2g-263 (13) as follows:
A1l recreational beachlots shall have a buffer sufficient to insulate other
ProPert:/ owners fror, beachlot activities. This buffer r'a]' consist of
topograph!,, streets, vegetation, distance (sidth or dePth), or other
teitirres or conbinationi of features which provide a buffer. To insure
appropriate buffering, the Cit!' n,a:. ir,poae conditions to insulate beachlot
activities includlng, but not lirr,ited to:
(a) Incteased side or front ltard setbacks for beach areas, docks, racks or
other allowed recreational eguitrxtent or activities;
(b)
(c)
(d)Erection of fences;
and by anrend i ng Section 2q-263 (7) as follows:
The r,axirr,un, nurrrber of docks on a recreational beachlot is three ( 3) . No
dock shall be pernitted on any recreational beachlot unless the beachlot
meets the following conditions:
(a) Shoreline of at least 2gg feet Per dock, and
(b) Area of at least 3grggg square feet for the first dock and additional
2grggg square feet for each additional dock.
Planning Corrrn,i ss i on Meeting
January L7, L99g - page 56
(e) Standards
upkeep ofdebris;
of r,aintenance including rr,owing and trirrrring;racks, docks and other equipr,ent; disposal of
painting andtrash and
J
(f)area requireF,ents based upon the intensit:,
nun,ber of dwellings having rights of
Increasedof the use
access.
width, depth
proposed or
or
the
the r,eeting at thls point and turned the Chair over to(Ladd Conrad Ie ft
Steve Er,r, ing s. )
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AT.IEND THE CITY CODE EORSUBDIVISION AND ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE RSF DISTRICTWITH LOT FRONTAGE AND ACCESS BY PRIVATE DRIVEWAYS.
MODIEICATIONS TO THE
STANDARDS DEALING
Public Present:
NaFle
Terr:, Forbord
En,r,ings: Has ever:.body read the r,aterial?add to what yourve already read?
Address
Lundgren Bros . , Vice president
Krauss: Ird be happl' to respond to questions. I guess allthis is arising out of a need thatrs becone apparer,t duringof our subdivisions and having worked on these things overee jrrst needed a rr.ethod of legitin,izing these thingi. Theare being proposed are prett:' tough. ihis does nof provide
sorr'ebod:t that rrants to avoid a public street.
Et'rtings' Okay, this is a public hearing so erer Il open theIs there anlrbod:, thatis got coFdr,ents?
Ird say is,the processing
the :rears, thatstandards thatan ea s!, out for
public hearing.
Terry Forbord: Terry Forbord fror, Lundgren Bros.. Actuall:, I support Mr.Kraussr proposal. There certainly are, this does legitirtrize the need forprivate driveways although t -r,af it tir,es think ther6's a need far greaterthan Paults at the tirre but itrs a great concept because there are f ir.,es,just fron an environr',ental standpoint, that it really doesn't nake anlrsense to put in a street. oftentir,es ire get condltioned into thinkin! wtthif we put in streets, thatrs a good thing to do. The bigger and the widerand the longer and the nror€ pav€rrr€nt and thatrs not alwayi-reall!, whatrs in
To the extent feasible, the Cit!, may irr,pose such conditions even afterapproval of the beachlot if the City finds it necessary based uponconflicts with the use of otber propert!, or failure to r,ai nta in- proper ty of _equiprrrent.
AIl voted in favor and the F,otion carried.
Is there anything :rou irant to
the best interest of the land, the City, the public. Rer,e!,ber
to pa!, for those streets and those get attached to the price of
so soFretir,es putting in streets arenrt the best thing to do and
drivewal's, in the right situation, certainl!, are a good idea.
certainly pointed out a couple areas in the existing ordinance
didnrt deal irith ttris correctly and heis done a reall:r good job
he's presented this.
Er'rrings: Do you have anv corlftients On the neck lots and flag lots?
sortrebotly has
the hor',es
pr ivate
PauI,
that real lyin the way
Terr!, Forbord: No. I Pretty ttuch can supPort this and enalorse this.
Ther;'s a tine, certain situations that rra:/ corre uP where 1'ou r'ight have
deal with it differentl:, but therets a variance proceealing that one can
through. I support this.
to
9o
BatzIi rrroV€d r EI I son
favor and the r'"o t i on
Erur,ings: Oka],,
to close the publ ic
The public hear ing
hearing. A11 voted in
rras closed.
tr]ri ng to
I think itrs
sec ondedcarried.
Erro,ings: Paul, this basicalll' clears up
about for a long tirte. This ordinance.
Krauss: I hope sO , :,eS .
Ietr s go around
it. I think it
I am not about to
things that rre've been talking
Isn't that r ight?
for coFfrrents. Annette?
Ellson: I like
accorrplish and
Perfectl:, fine.
ansr,ver s rrhat
tr !' to r'ake
ire i ve been
it better.
Batzll: I.t!r onl], question is, lt seeFs to F,e that we had a situation not
really like this but kind of in rrhat l'as vineland? Noi, one of the concerns
there r,ra s that the:t irere putting the road in the guy' s backlzard. we were
talking about a sideyard setback froF, the road that iras Proposed to go up
through the neck. How do you address aon'ething like that? Itrs reall:' not
addrelsed in here necessaril!, other than you would allow a Private drive if
there were fewer than rrhat, 4 hor,es or whatever?
Krauss: Yeah, but there is language and I doubt if I can find it but
thereis language in here that allows you to set sorre sightlng criteria for
a prlvate drive recognizing that Particular probler,. It silI also alLot
1,ou to ir',pose sone lindEcaping requirerhenta if necessary to rtinirrize iF,Pact
Lecause these things do run near PeoPler s backyards. That ls a Probler,wlth thenr. But r think it does give you the flexibility to do that. Itrs
nunrber 5 on page 2 of the zoning ordinance alTtendr'ent. The drivewa:t shall
be designed to F,iniF'ize lrtpact upon adjolnlng parcels. The Cit:' n,ay
requlre revised allgrurrents and landscaplng to r.,inir,ize ir',pacts.
Batzli: oka!'. so in vineland they had F,ore than the 4 parcels so this
wouldnrt have helpeil that particular situation.
Krauss: weII the rral, vinelanal ultimately shook out is that there was
one hor.e that becaFre a neck lot access fror' Pleasant View.
only
' Planning Con,nrission Heeting
Januar!, L7, !999 - Page 57
Planning Corrrrrission Meeting
Janual:, L7, L99S - Page 58
Batzli: Yeah, brrt as originall]r proposed it irould have served what, Iike20 lots so the:r eouldnrt have been able to do the private.
Krauss: No. I{e didnrt support that concept fron the start.
Batzli: WelI it was a big cul-de-sac. But assurt,ing that that was theaccess into and out of there, youid stirl have a problerr in situationsthat rdhere there was rrore than 4 hones. stirr haie a sideyard setbackproblerrr for certain neck, frag accesses so this as originair!, proposedthe developer, this wouldnr t have helped that particulir hor,eowner.
Krauss: No, and specifically itrs intended not to. If lrouire plattlngIqore than 4lots, arr,ost invariabry, you can prrt a public street in.Therers really no reason not to.
on I:,
Iike
bv
Batz1i: Brrt thatts the question. How intrusiveexisting hor'eownerrs sidey'ard by servlng, letrsThatrs r,y probler, with it and I donrt knoh, thatdonrt think itrs intended to.
Krauss: No, it isn't and thatrs a probler, that occurs anytin,e :,ourredeveloping-a new public street or private drive that's in-proxii"ity tosorrebody elses property rine rathei than being centered rsiitrin a lirgeparcel. Itrs an issue that, t:rpicalI:, lrou want to keep the roadira], -
centered so those who benefit are the ones who are ir.,picted by it. Thatisa rure of th urtrb and we do that nith arr publ-ic streeti. Thls ordinance isreal specific. rt's onry deallng with those situations that for ver],specific criteria we canrt serve by public street. And lreah, thatsitrration, that scenario r,ay devel-op-but unlike witrr puuii- streets wherethe design is basically handled in the subdivision pr6cess, this gives youttre authorit!, to Frove the private driveway around. If ]rou uant to savesotre trees on a property line, you can require that it be shifted. rfthere isnrt landscaping, :rou could require that it be installed so in sor,erespects.:rou probabry have better contror over the private drivewalrs underthis ordinance than you do tith the public street.
But letrs go back to Vineland for just one second and I agree withjust said but if they would have put a public street in tiere,it have been reasonabre to require therrr to not have it shifted arlover to the east on their.property line so it was only 24 feet atfa],s gu:rrs house. Wouldnrt it be better to be able to f-orce theni tot on their own neck portion even if it $as a public street and note driveway? Thatrs irhat we terenrt able to do and he was tr:ring tohe 3 houses on the west side and run the road right along thlline. Thatrs what the adjancent propert!, owner rras objicting to.have that probler,.
can a devel.oper be into ansa:, it vras L60 lots?this addresses it and I
Batzl i :
rrha t lrounouldn' tthe wa:,
f r orr, thi
center i
a pr ivatput in t
ProPer t!t
We st 111
Krauss: We still have that probler,.
one that's going to solve that.Ellson: This won't be the
J
Planning Corr,r,ission l,teeting
Januar:, 17, L99g - Page 59
Batzli: Yeah I knon but I rras hoping like r,alzbe
sortething to solve that problelq too. But I like
I was hoping that this was going to solve that.
in the r,iII I guess.
we were working on
this. Don I t get lr,e
The other probler,r s
wrong.still
Erru'"ings: We don I t have it as a work lterr or an]tthing.
it on rnlz list.Batzli: No, and I had
Elt,r,ings: I agree. Itts soFrething thatis always bugged
put in a road and all of a sudden the person who had a
frontage on the sideyard.
rt e when I see thenr
yard now has
Krauss: well you know, if 1'ou reflect back for a rtot'rent to the first
we had tonight where we Proposed that road droPPing to the south. The
purchaser and ttre realtor suggested that we reguire, that ire Put that
iight ,rp against a neighboring Propert:,: His proposal to us tras that
rafher tha; put this road over here, which irtpacts a new lot that con'e
rike this, hl said why don't :'ou just drop it down there' r said, wer
have a fundaF,ental probler, eJith that because thatrs rraking this person
here a corner lot and...
i tert
road
sI we
ov er
Er,rr,ings: Now other than jawboning, do ltou reaIl1' have any t,aY to prevent
hirr,? I think there ought to be, even if it rras. . -
But see at tirres lou Fra! want it there. Thatis the difficultBatzli:
part .
Krauss: First of all, it canrt be any
violating our own standards. If we do
variance procedure.
Erarings: What can't be closer than
closer than 30 feet or ererre
that than we have to go through a
road less
si tuation.
30 feet? A Paveal
than 3g feet f r or',
street?
somebodyr s hotlse ,Krauss: If we plat a new
ire I re creating a variance
Krauss:
Err'rrrings: House or lot?
EIlson:
House.
But for now in this what do :'ou think
I like this. I've said that. we gotBatz 1l :
have.
Ahrens: I rr,
this is weII
Br i an?
off the track.Thatr s all I
not aware of the past problems with Vlneland but I think that
wr i tten.
Errrrings' I
circled two
Curval inear
looks funnl'
agree. I onl]t have a couPle of
rrords as being, the:trre looking
on the first one. Ma],be thatrs
to Fe.
things. I just donrt know, I
funny to rr,e spelling wise.
the wa], it's spelled. It just
Planning Cono,ission Meet ing
JanuaI], L7, L99g - Page 60
Batzli: I think there's an i ln there.
EYttriings' Instead of an a?
Batzli: yeah.
Er,rrrings: That I s what I thought. But
And then over on the other one, underunfeasibLe and thatrs a funny word toor Fra:t be infeasible.
I didn't look it up so Isection 1, paragraph I,F,e. I think it,6 either
don I t knoir.it saysnot feasibl-e
Krauss: where are te noir?
Err'rrrings: unfeasible. r don't recarr ever seeing it before. Again, youcould refer to your dictlonary and see. fhen th6 onl!, substative conientr I ve got is down under the second . group
- of nurr,bers in nur,,ber 1, it sa1,s -
private- driveways. The reason tht; ts- interesting to r.,i-i-f i". i"--!o"should knord, on a systerr of three houses are served b!, a private drive andl:'" u ver:r, ver:, nice arranger,ent. rt rrorks real well. w" ;;;.;:--w.-.finlre one gu!, to proe, and share the cost in a rear reasonable way and it'sjust very nice. I reall!, klnd of like it but here ft sa:rs, if it servestiro or nore hones, it has to be a ? ton design paved to i wiatl of 2g feet.M:' trro neighbors have an asphalt drive and r-haie lust rocii because r likejust rocks and itrs not 26 ieet wide. r,ll bet itis g feet nide.
Krauss: well therers a real good reason for that and thatrs the Fire code.
Err'rrings: WeII okay.
Ellson: And hers going to cone after :rou as soon as this goes into 1aw.
ErrFrings: what I s the problern?
Krauss: Whatrs the probler', is wetrucks down an 8 foot wide street
Ero,ings: But just a F,inute now.foot width. A standard driveway.
guarantee that we can8 foot wide dr iveway.
canrtor an
get our fi re
Ellson: with gravel especia1l.y.
Kfauss: Werre not talking about serving one home where :rou can sort ofbull. :rour. way through if.you need to. ie're talklng aboit servlng 2 orrrrore which is a fairly significant amount of traffi6. Therets more of alikelihood that you'|11-have an- errrergency sltuation. riie-coae requires a20 foot wiile paved surface with a turn iround area that tfre1, can nraneuverin- No' that turn around area is not a 6g foot dian,eter "oi-ae-=ac but voucan flare out drivena:'s and strch to r,ake it rcork.
Yourre talking about actualllr paving a 2g
Krauss: For a single hon,e, r.,ay be I0 feet.
Krauss:
lane but
811 son :
Enm'ing s :
one house
Plairning Con,rr,ission Meeting
Januar:/ L7, L99g - Page 51
Et,rrings s I think thatis awful unless you absolutel:/, fire trucks are not
20 feet wide. Thelt F,ay need son,e n'aneuvering.
The!'fre not 20 feet wide, no. They eould fit in a 12 foot drive
the:i oftentin,es have to nraneuver around one another.
If a parked car ls there or something.
Krauss:If itrs not plowed to it's fuII width.
is that grou've got, if I'r, just
2g feet wide paved?
Ellson ! It sa:rs serving 2 or rr,ore.
Batzli: Do you just require then that portlon of the drivewaw thatrs
serving the cor,n,on portion of the driveway?
Krauss: Thatrs correct. And if you have a drlveway
one behind the other, after :/ou Pass the first hd',er
then flare down to I0 feet.
What I s a Iittle odd
on a drivewa:r, do I to ttre here
need to be
that serves two hon es,
the drivewalt couJ.d
Erlr'ings: oh, alr ight .
Batzli: But this doesnrt sa:i that r donrt think does it?
B,rhings: See in rrr!, aituation again, ever:'bod:7 corres in on the sar,e long
Piece and then it all splits off. rf itrs onr:' the corrrrron portion, r have
no problert oith that.
Krauss: If lrourd like to clarify that so that it i8 the cotr,F,on portion, I
dontt have a Problen. with that. Thatrs what itts intended to riean.
Errrr,ings: okay. Then that makes a tot of sense to lrre. And I'rr
grandfathered in.
Ellson: You mean therers no wa!, to 90 after hir,.
Batzli: Do re needt a motion or sotr'ething?
Er.rrrings. That. d be good. If no else has any other corfirents. I{e'lI have a
nrotion.
Ellson ! I rrrove that the Plannlng Corr,rt ission approval proposed ordinance
changes on, I supposed I shouldl glve the ordlnance tlutr,ber -
h'$rings: Yes.
Ellson: Arrrend ing Section 2S-615 aa set out in the staff rePort andl 18-57.
Er,rt lngs: Is there a second?
Batzti: Irll second lt for discussion purPoses.
i
Planning Cor.or i ss ion Heeting
Januar!, L7, L99g - Page 62
Ero,ings' Alright. Di scuss .
Batz1is Are you going to go yrith
onl:7 those corrlrron por t i ons .
Ellson: Yeah, rerrord the sectionthat.
the artrendrr,ent that the private drlveways,
to be a little r',ore clarificatlon to
Batzli: Then I like it.
Ellson: I didni t thinkjust going to rrrite it
legal .
it needed an ar,endrtent tothat wa!, but lrourre right.figured he wasgoing to get
it. r
Werre
Etl',ings: okay. so ]'ou're ar'end ing your rtrotion then. To arlow the staffto clarify that in that section theyrre talking about the corrrFron portion ofthe driveway and rriay be certain other things tike $hen one house is behindthe other. Again it wlrr be past the first house or soðing !.ike that.That I s uhat :rorr I re ar,endlng lrour r,otion to?
Ellson: That I s exactly right.
Er'things: And you agree with that?
Batzli s Yes.
EIlson Froved, Batzli seconded thatapproval of arrending Section 20-6Lsstaff wittt clarification in Sectionprivate driveways rr,ust be paved toand the notion carried.
the Planning Cortori ss lon r€corrrrvr€ndand Section 18-57 as presented b!' the18-57 on the corrrrron portion of the20 feet in rridth. Atl voted in favor
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE.
Etrr,ings' we have a report fron. the planning Director on the citl, council
F eeting. Does anybod:r rrant to rrrake dn! corrrFrehts about that?
Ellson: I was reall!, surprised rrith that nun,ber 3 lter,.
Krauss:
Attorney.
EIIson:
Krauss:
Er,tTrings:
Krauss:
It was
Is it
Yes.
Everybody in the audience was real confused as rras I and the Cit:,
What was the vote?
unanlrrlous.
oka 1,to change the second reading in F,idstrearrr like that?
Planning Corur,ission Meeting
Januar:' 17, 1990 - Page 63
EIIson: what does
Krauss: He c Ia ir,s
live with L L/2.
Ellson: so l,hat they want to propose would allow h
then the:/ lrant this new R-16 thatrs going to alloi,
will we put these R-I5rs?
this do to that applicant?
that, he told me quite a bit earlier on that he could
in toI and
have I I/2
I outside?
but
wher e
Krauss: Realllt therer s a couple of Problerrs, there's a lot of Problerrs
our ordinance but one of the probler's was R-12 densit:/ does not rearl1'
support apartn'ent developr,ent in the lr,anner to which :tou're accustoFreil
seeing it. Itrs not intense enough. Then we have the Probler, added to
fact that we have a verlt restrictlve hard surface coverage requirer,ent.
First rre take out the park. Then lre a.;.s orrt the wetlands and then we
allow hir', to build on 35t of whatever's }eft.
Er.u',ings: Thatrs call.ed creating oPen space isnr t it?
1n
to
the
onl y
Krauss: It does that.
El.lson: It saveil the oak trees I rerttenrber.
Krauss: But Brad Johnson pointed it out and I had to seconil his feelings
on that, that there is a probleF lrith that and if thelt truly nant sorr'e
n,rrlti-fart ily' developrr,ent, that they ought to look at that. And the:, felt
that that rras a reasonable iray of providing that tyPe of developn,ent. The
upshot up of it being, the long and the short of it is, through a fairllt
convoluted approach, the Cit], Councll sort of did what :7ou recorfi,ended.
Er,r.,ings' ...the fact that nunrber 7, werve got a special r',eeting in one
week and I suppose ever:rbod:trs taken note of that. That werre having an
extra tYreeting.
Krauss: yes. And we will provide pizza for dinner.
Err'riings: Pizza? That I s neir.
Batzli: I thought ever]rbody
it to 259 feet which I think
should notlce that in nurrber 4 they increased
I wanted.
Ellson: Ies, I recall that.
srtre 11 th ing .
And I noticed the], haal that storage tank
Krauss: I neeat to get theF to reconsider that second reading though.
There was a problelh that surfaced in that, BlIl was concerned that the
Artroco station, he felt the AFroco station and the Hollda:, statlon would t\eet
the requirer,ent. Therefore, the ordinance uasnrt restrictive enough. In
fact, the Ar,oco station does not rr'eet the requirerrent. They had con,e in
for a building perr,it late last, before earl1t winter. They never received
it. I was unaware of that for a while but apparentllt therer s a probleri
t ith the PCA. The!, had to clean up the site so we issued the PerF.it last
week and nhen an ordinance coFres into p1ace, our Cit:/ Attorne:, keePs
Planning
Januar !,
Conr',i s s ion MeetingL7, L99g - Page 54
us that the ordinance is in effect until the bullding, unless theis erected already.
For heavenrs sake. So nor, they donrt qualiflr?
WelI technicall!, the!, dontt, no.
Good, the!' have to have a service station there like we alwalzs
tel L ing
building
Krauss:
Ellson:
lranted.
Nrauss: so rhat we're saying to the city councir is we didnrt intend that.rn fact when the ordinance was drafted, we had language in the coFdrrentarvthat said we didn't think the:' should appL!, to exiitiig pern,itted uses.That was never put into ordinance ranguage so werre goini to ask theCouncil to see if they want to n,odiflz-thit before it-geti published.
Endr'ings: An]rthing else? Iour packet this tin,e both therevised work schedule. Since
t irr,e .
Krauss: Didnrt you know werd
supPose we should salr rrer re happlr to see inrePort on irhat the Cit:, Council did and ourwe bitch about it not being there all the
Ellson3 I just have one request. CanIike we used to when it was on nurrberthat was nw,ber 2. I get this packetthen I canrt put it back in order. DoJo Ann?
WeII I could but
those nrinor things.
at sonre tlrrre or another?
I think you ought to be
go back to nun,bering these things
Sor'eone had a I on here. Andover rr,], dining rooFr table and
rer,errber when we used to do that
got thelr
do that.
thenr both
in there,
9et
bo thEr,r,ings: Since you
conplinrented. I'11
we
1.aIl
You
Etr',ings: Annette, can I t put ltour orrn l ittle nuFrbers?
Ellson:
One of
you
it lras so convenient when it was done for n,e.I donrt ask rruch, letrs face it.
APPROVAL OF I1INUTES: Batzli F,oved, Ahrenof the Planning Cor,a,ission !,eeting datedvoted in favor and the F,otion carried.
seconded to approve the l.linutes
Januar], 3, L99g as presented. All.
Batzli: I thought we were going toit's a very good week to discuss itbut we were going to discuss our own
discuss this week, and I dontt thinksince we I re klnd of short corr,rr,issionerspriorlty for our rork list this week.
Ellson: Oh, chooslng our favorites?
Batz1i: Choosing our favorites and those that we donrtaLong fast enough, kind of taking a trrore proactive role thinkin.are r,ov ing
Ellson: Like sort,e of these arenrt even ours. Recycling of oil?
Ellson:
efanning Cortu,,ission ueeting
Januar:t 17, l99A - Page 65
Er'rrrings: I think everybody ought to be here.
Batzli: I agree. But I think that that should be part of the discussion
next Heek or in 2 weeks or whenever.
Krauss: At the regular rreeting?
Batzli: Yeah.
Ellson: I irant lrou to knoi, that I rr, not going to be here Februar], 7th.
Irll be out of toirn so IrII turn ln what I think frotl, this list. How does
that sound?
Ertr'ings s Is there anlrthing eLse?
Ellson r,oved, Batzli secondedl to adjourn the r,eeting. A11 voteil in favor
and the r,otion carried. The lr,eetlng was adjourned at 11:25 p.r,..
Suhr,i tted b], PauI Krauss
Director of Planning
Prepared blr Nann Ophein
ONGOING ISSUES
CO}TPREEENSIVE PLA}I ISSI'BS
1. comprehensive Plan UPdate
2. Amendments to MUSA Boundary
3. Future Use for Areas Out-
side the MUSA Boundary
ZONING CODE AIIENDI{BNTS
1. Contractorrs Yards
Update Zoning UaP
Blending Orilinance
Rezoning BF Distict to A-2
Convenience Store uoratoriun
6. Sign ordinance
7. Update zoning Code
8. Trash and RecYclable Users-
Where shoulal they be locateil?
Adoption 9/90
Atloption 9,/9 0
1995 Study Areas
City council Approval -
May 3, 1989
A.
B.
2
3
4
5
ongoi ng
I nacti ve
Inactive
9
10. Tree Ordinance - MaPPing of
significant vegetative areas
11. Rezoning of 2l Acres Lots
to RR District
12. Noise Ordinance
wetland Violations - Add
section to wetland ordinance
S torage
Front Yard Fencing
Stanalarils for R-I2
Developments - Parking,
garages, architectural
s tantlards
uoratorium over -
Ord. review by P.C.
Nov. 15r 1989 - Review
by Council L/8/90
Inact ive
Ongo ing
Inactive, not currently an
i ssue
Complete
Public Safety propose
ordinance which was d
by city Council
Inactive
Inactive
dan
enied
Ord. Review by P. C.
Nov. 15, 1989
Cc adoption L/8/90
13.
14.
15.
REVISBD FEBRUARY 7, 1990
STAIUS
I{orking with DNR Forester
DNR Inventory due sPring, I99
I nactive
REVISED FEBRUARY 7, L99O
ONGOING ISSUES
15. Heliports
C. OTEER ITEI.IS
Eurasian Water Milfoi 1
Review of the impact ofResidential Development
on the financial structureof the ci ty.
Temporary conditional usepermits.
10. Maximum Church Lot
11. Neck lots & lots accesseedby private drives
12. Recreational Beachlot -Reguirement of Lot Depth
STATUS
Inactive
Compl ete
Ongoi ng
CUPrs completed
Nert
Staff processing a positionpaper to review wetlanil
ordinanee & enforcement
Budgeted money for update2 year timefrane
Comprehensive Plan
Not active
Recycling Committee reviewing
ord i nance
Public Safety Involved
discussionsInclutled into
on Comp. Plan
P.C. review on Nov. 15, 1989
CC review on Jan. 8, 1990
P.C. review on iran. 3, 1990(denied by PC)
CC review on iIan. 22, L990*CC agreed to ilrop ordinanceregulating church si ze.Directed staff (Iow priority)to review CUPrs for churches.
P.C. approval Jan. , 1990
CC review Feb. , 1990
7
I
9
P.C. review on Jan. 17, 1990
1. Update development proce-
dures including suburittaldates, design review com-mittee, subnittaL check l ist
and process
2. Computerize land use files,permits, conditions andexpiration dates on a par-ceI by parcel basis
3. Reappraisal on Wetland issues,
ordinance and mapping inconjunction with storm water
managemen t
4. Trail Involvement of
Planning Comnission
5. Light Rail Transit
6. Recycling of Oi1
13.
14.
15.
16.
L7.
18.
ONGOING ISSUES
Tree removal requirement
Definition of structures
Sale of farm products
shoreland Ordinance
Flood zone Orilinance
Grading/MineraI Extraction
R-I6 Di strict
zoA Bank with drive-thru in
BH District
Inactive
Review Uarch, 1990
PC reviei, Feb. , 1990
Summer, 1990
Spring, 1990
March, 1990 - CC directedstaff to expedite.
PC Reviee Feb. 7, 1990
Pc Review Feb. 7, 1990
19.
20.
REVISED FEBRUARY 7, L99O
STATUS
\
CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
I
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5531 7
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
II{EI{ORANDUM
TO: Planning Connission
FROM: Paul Rrauss. Planning okeczor ff-'
DAIE: January 29. L990
SUBJ: City Council Action from their iranuary 22, L990 l{eeting
At the January 22, l-99O City Council meeting, the following
actions of interest to the Planning Commission were taken:
The city Council approveil a resolution reguesting a time
extension from the Metropolitan Council to complete revisions
to the Comprehensive PLan due to proposeil amendments to the
Metropolitan systems P1an. The Metropolitan Council asked
cities to comment on proposeal System Statement changes during
the summer of 1989. fn November of last yea! they asked that
cities that have not had an oPportunity to comment request an
extension of time. staff is proposing that we request such
an extension of time in light of the fact that we are working
on a major guide plan amendment, which should be delivereil to
the ltletropolitan Council this summe!.
Staff reviewed an administrative subdivision to subdivide a
lot containing a double bungalow into tt o separate lots at
7611 and 7613 lroquois for the applicant Anita Thompson. Thelot in question is undlersized at I3r000 square feet by RSF
stanilards aad contains a double bungalow which is not per-
mitted in this district and which requires a 20,000 squarefoot lot in the R-4 District. Staff proposeil approval of the
subdivision in spite of the non-conformity since we did not
believe that the proposal to subtlivide an exlsting duplex
wouLd intensify either non-conformity. Neighbors and the
Council raiseil questions regartling the reguest and askedstaff to speak further to the applicant who rras not present
that night. Potentially this item could come back to the
Planning Commission for their action.
3. The City Council approved a nodification to the recent ordi-
Dance concerning convenience stores and other uses having
accessory gas pumps. The urodification would al1ow Amoco to
proceed with their station redevelopment plans ltithout
z
Planning
Ja nuary
Page 2
Commission29, 1990
obtaining a conditional use permit. It rras staff's originalintent to except this use from these requirements. tasi
November it appeared that a building pernit was going to beissued for this gas st.ation redevelopment, holrever, they needto coordinate site clean-up with the pollution Control Agencywhich has delayed building permit issuance until earlyilanuary, with the result that this site would technically bein violation of the new ordinance.
5
The City Council approveil the preliminary plat to replat aportion of Lot 31, Murray Hill and Lot 1, Block 1, pleasantItill for the City of Chanhassen. Final plat approval will bescheduled for their next meeting.
6
7
8.
4.
The City Council hacl an extensive discussion regarding thelloon valley gravel and clay operations. The discussion onthis item began last December irhen area residents complainedof rumoreil expansions of the mining excavation. fhe Councildirected staff to return rrith a report outlining options fordealing with this matter. One of the options that wasdiscussed by staff was the possibility of adopting a newordinance regulating grading and filling activities rrith thegoal of requiring Moon valley to obtain a permit and bringthemselves into compliance. It is not 1ike1y that thisoption could be used to shut the operation down, but ratherto insure that it is operated in a manner which minimizesimpact. The City Council directed staff to work with thePlanning Commission to develop this ordinance as guickly aspossible. Review of the ordinance wilI be scheduled foi anupcoming meeting.
The City Council revieweil the ordinance amendment that wouldrestrict churches and other tax exempt institutions to a
maximum lot size of 15 acres. After extensive cliscussion,the Council determined that the ordinance as proposed did notaccomplish what had been wished and voted to deny the ordi-nance amendment. Staff was directed to reassess conditionaluse permit standards pertaining to churches with the possi-bility that they would be proposed for further expansion, ifthis resulted in enhanced controls over these types of uses.
The City Council approved the first reading of the ordinancefor the site plan review amendments. They also indicated adesire to see the posting of signs on sites where developmentproposals are being reviewedl by the City. Staff was directedto prepare background information on various options andcosts involvecl in posting of signs.
Councilman Johnson was appointed to the Board of Adjustmentsand Appeals. He will be replacing Councilwoman Dimler whohad to resign from the Board due to a time conflict.