03-21-90 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CIIANIIASSEN PI,ANNING CO!,T},IIS S ION
I{EDNESDAY, I{ARCH 21, 1990, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Wetland Alteration Pernit for the filling in and sodding of anexisting wetland located at 80 and 100 Sandy Hook Road, StephenFrost and Bob Pfankuch.
2. wetland Alteration Pernit for filling and alteration of Class
A and B wetlands located on Lake Drive East, south of H!Iy. 5
and east of Dakota Avenue, city of chanhassen.
3. Prelininary plat to replat r,ake Riley woods znd Addition tocorrect a platting error, George Nelson Associates.
4. Zoning ordinance anendment to amend the Subdivision and Zoning
ordinance to require the posting of public infornation signsfor new developurents within the city.
1
5. Zoning ordinance anendment to anend Article II,
through 20-70 pertaining to procedures for the
variances.
Sections 20-56
issuance of
6. Roberts Automatic Products, Inc., 5.'125 acres of property zoned
IOP, Industrial office Park and located off of Lake Drive just
east of Co. Rd. 17:
Prelirninary plat to replat I,ot 3, Block 2, chanhassen Lakes
Business Park 2nd Addition into two lots and one outlot.
Site Plan Review for the construction of a 48,2oo squarefoot office/nanufacturing facility.
OLD BUSTNESS
NEW BUSINESS
APPROVAL OF I.{INUTES
CITY COI'NCIL UPDATE
ONGOING ITE}{S
ADI{INI STRATIVE APPROVAI,S
OPEN DISCUSSION
ADJOI.,RNIiIENT
b
CITY OF
EHANHISSEN
P.C. DATB: March 21, 1990
C.C. DATE: April 9, 1990
CASB NO: 88-13 WAP
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
STAFF REPORT
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Rear of Lots I and 2, Block 1, Colonial Grove atLotuslake, 2nil Adilition - 80 and 100 Sandy Eook
Road
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
Robert Pfankuch
100 Sandy Hook Roacl
Chanhassen, MN 55 3I
Stephen Frost
80 Sandy Hook Road
Chanhassen, MN 5 5317
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
PHYSICAT CEARAC.:
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
N-
S-
8-
w-
RSF, Residential Single Family
N,/A
Lotus Lake
RSF; single faurily
Recreational Beachlot
RSF; single family
Water and sewer is available to theproperty.
_The lots slope toward Lotus Lake with the
area adjaeent to Lotus Lake previously
containing wetland vegetation. The area
now contains rock and sod.
Residential Low Dens iCy
Wetland Alteration Permit for Filling of aCIass A Wetland a1on9 Lotus Lake
APPLICANT s
WATER AND SEWER:
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Frost and Pfankuch WAP
March 21, 1990
Page 2
BACKGROUND
A wetlanil area adjacent to Lotus Lake was filled in the early
summer of 1988 along three properties (Frost, Pfankuch and
recreational beachlot - Attachment #I). While the property was
being fi11ed, staff was contacted by a resident questioning
whether this ltas approved. Staff from the Planning and
Engineering Department went out to the site to determine exactly
what was taking pIace. The staff that visited the site stated tothe applicant that what they were doing required a grading permit
and that any further activity on the site rras not permitted until
a grading permit was obtained. The contractor filling the site
came to City Hall and filled out an application for a gradingpermit (Attachment *2). The Planning Department again visitedthe site to determine if a wetland existed. Staff saw that
wetland vegetation hail existed anCl that a wetland alteration per-
mit was required. Staff contacted the applicants anal stated that
whaE was occurring was not permitted without a wetland alterationpermit ( Attachment *3).
Staff visited the site with PauI Burke of the Fish and Wildlife
Service who provided a report on the site dateal June 30, 1988(Attachment #4). After several contacts with the applicants, an
applicaEion was f iletl for a wetland alteration permit b
Frost and 1,1r. Pfankuch on January 12, 1989. The applic
the Pfankuch and Frost wetland alteration permit was br
before Ehe Planning Commission on February 15, 1989 (At
#5). The Planning Commission tabled action until it co
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oug
tac
uld
on for
hr
hment
beclarified what actually occurretl between the applicants and staff
and to allow time for the Lotus Lake Betterment Association(recreational beachlot) to be included in the wetland alteration
permit application since it became apparent that the wetland ontheir property was also fi1letl.
Staff was in contact with the Fish and wildlife' Corps of
Engineers and the Department of Nat.ural Resources at the
beginning of this process. The DNR responded that the fill was
in violation of Minnesota Rules 6115.0190 and that any permit to
fill below the ordinary high vrater mark woulal be ilenied. Pat
Lynch of the DNR stateil that any fill below the ordinary high
water mark woulil be required to be removeil anil the area restored.
Since the DNR was involved, staff felt that we should work with
the DNR and the Fish and wildlife to provide a plan agreeable to
all reguJ,atory parties as to the amount of fill area that needed
to be removed and hoi, much of the wetland should be restored.
The City and th
over the wetlan
The DNR has reqthe ordinary hi
has staked out
cl.ui
gh
th
DNR are the tvro agencies which have jurisdiction
The Fish and wilillife was used as a resource.
red the property oh,ners to remove the fill up to
rrrater mark by May 1, 1990 (Attachment 6). The DNR
e OIIWM where the applicants have to remove the fiII.
Frost/Pfankuch wAP
March 21, 1990
Page 3
ANALYS IS
tlessrs. Frost anil Pfankuch have made application to the City fora wetland alteration permit (after the fact) to a1low for thefilling of a wetland ailjacent to Lotus Lake. The applicants areproposing to remove the fill below the ordinary high water markas required by the DNR. Staff has reviewed existing conditionsprior to development of the area and more recent surveys todetermine the existing edge of the wetlantl prior to the altera-tion in 1988 (Attachment *7). Staff also used the osurvey" pro-vided by the contractor filling the area in 1988 as part of thegrading permit (Attachment *8).
After review of past conditions, it is apparent that the wetland
boundary went well beyond the orilinary high water mark.Attachnent *9 shows the approximate eilge of the wetland over thethree subject properties. The property owners stated that thepurpose of the fill was to remove purple loosestrife. purple
loosestrife is a noxious weed for which there is no known way tolemove permanently from wetlanils. What is known is that alteringa wetland by dredging and filling only increases ancl proliferatespurple loosestrife. The photographs provided by one of the pro-perty owners shows purple loosestrife growing through the sod(Attachnent #10).
The City has consistently naintaineil a policy of no net loss ofwetlands. When wetland aLteration permits are permitted the enclresult is an improved wetland. Typically, Class B wetlands arethe type of wetlanil allowed to be altered and improveil. Class Awetlanils are typically not allowed to be altered and only if itis an improvement to the quality of the wetland. Filling a ClassA wetland is not an improvement to the quality of the wetland.
The filling took place prior to contacting the City, DNR, etc.and at the very least the contractor doing the work should haveknown to contact the applicable regulatory agencies. As aresult, an extensive amount of wetlancl has been removeil andreplaced with sod and gravel . Whatever benefits the wetland pro-vided in terms of lvater quality, natural habitat, etc., no longerexists. If the applicants had following the correct procedure
On March 72, 7990 the City Council approved the Planning
Commissionrs recommendation to have the Lotus Lake Betterment
Association remove fiIl beyond the orclinary high water mark to a
depth of 45 feet. Note: The year between tabling action by the
Planning Commission and the current application (February, 1989
through February, 1990) was a result of staff and the applicantwaiting for the DNR to decitie how much of the wetland hail to be
restored.
Frost/Pfankuch wAP
March 21, 1990
Page 4
and applied for a wetland alteration permit prior to any altera-
tion, staff would have recommeniled against fi11ing the wetland
and would have recomrnended anothe! means of removing the purpose
loosestrife. Therefore, staff is recommending that the fill be
removeil to the previous eilge of the wetland, beyond the DNR' s
requirement of only to the ordinary high water mark. We not only
desire to return a valuable wetland to its natural state, but
also to avoitl creating what we believe to be a poor precetlent.
If fill is alloweil to remain it would send a signal that i11ega1
filling is an acceptable way in which to circumvent the wetlandprotection ordinance.
The applicants are proposing
fill as requireil by the DNR:
the following areas of
x Width x Depth
x 75' xx 78' x
+11)
*L2)
( Attach .
( Attach .
to remove
Depth
Frost (Lot 2 - 80 Sandy Hook) 10r
Pfankuch (Lot I - 100 Sandy Hook) 5'
The areas of fill shown by the contractor as
application were as follows:
part of the grading
Frost (Lot 2 - 80 Sandy Itook) 45t x 72' x 45t (attach. *I3)
Pfankuch (Lot I - I00 Sandy Ilook ) 45r x 781 x 42r (Attach. #14)
The increased depth beyonil the ordinary high lrater mark is con-
sistent with the area of unaltered wetLanil that staff found
through old aerials and surveys. As with the wetland alteration
permit for the Lotus Lake Betterment Association, staff is recom-
mending that the fill be removeil beyond the orilinary high water
mark to the edge of the unaltereil wetland. Therefore, staff is
recommending that Frost remove a depth of 45'of fill and
Pfankuch remove a depth of 45' and 42'of fil1. Any alocks on the
property will have to be accesseil by a boardwalk which wiIl per-
mit the hretland to return to its natural state. A pathway or
other means of access to the dock which removes lretland should
not be permitted. Staff wi1l, stake the area of fill which shall
be removeil.
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
nThe Planning Commission reconmends approval of wetland
Alteration Permit *88-3 with the following conditions:
Lot- 2, Block l, ColoniaL Grove at Lotus Lake 2nil Aildition,
sha11 have 45t x 72' x 45' of fill removed measured from the
property line ailjacent to Lotus Lake as shown on the final
1.
26'
f0l
Frost,/Pfankuch WAP
March 21, 1990
Page 5
p1at. The fill will be removed by June 15, 1990, using thetypical- cross section provitled by the DNR.
3. The applicant shall be permitted one boardwalk through the
restored wetlantl to provide access to the dock.
4. The area of removed fill shall be alloweil to restore to anatural state.
5. Any purple loosestri fe
renoved as recommended
manual , oSpread, Impac
North America wetlands
rh
byta
at returns s
the F'i sh an
nd Control o
l be immediately
ildlife Serviceurple Loosestrife in
ha1dvtfP
6. Prior to any work being done on the site, the applicant sha1l
submit for City staff approval a grading and erosion control
p1an. "
ATTACEI.TENTS
Area of Fi11ed wetland.
Grading Permit Application for Pfankuch and Frost.Letter to Pfankuch and Frost dated August 25, 1988.Letter from US Dept. of Interior dated July 11, 1988.Letter from US Dept. of Interior dated August 31, 1988.
Memo from Paul Burke dated February I0, 1989.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.t2.
13.
14.
15.
15.
17.
18.
19.
Planning Commission minutes dated February 15, 1989Letter from DNR dated February 2, L989.
PIan indicating pre-existing wetland conditions.
Area grading for tots l and 2 proposed by contracto
Edge of Wetland prior to alteration.
Photographs.
Letter and site plan from Frost ilateal January 31, 1Letter and site plan from Pfankuch dated February 1Frost grading permit application site p1an.
Pfankuch grading permit application site p1an.
DNR proposal of removal, of fi11.Cityrs proposal. of removal of fil1.
r.
20.
990.3, 1990.
DNR typical cross section.Letter to Dr. Charles Eirt from DNR dateil Decernber 6, 1989.Letter to Dr. Eirt, Irlr. Pfankuch and Mr. Frost dated
December 11, 1989.
Planning Commission minutes dated February 21, J,990.
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2
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APPLICAT
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NG PERMTTrON FOR EXC
Pemit No.
Fee. '-i' 1"
Owners Name
Address
Excavator
Address
Lot Block
Site Address
Descript on o fw to be do:k
'fe le hone
Tele hone
/
@t1 -faa +y'lt :r
ial@
Subdivision
the use or occupancy for nhich the proposed wo kis
Estsi$aEed quantity of excavation I cubic yarCs
. Plot plan showing present elevations
Elevations after excavation is co$pleted:
Eleval-ions of neiohcorj.ng property uitlin 1.5
8q7.v
Location of aurork is to bestructures onof the properoperations:
Indicate
in.;ended :.I
feet of excavation:
ny buildings or structures on the propert y uhere thr:Pe rformed and the location of any buildi ngs orIand of adjacent owners whlch are wi thi n 15 feetty o.r w lt ch may be affected by the propo sed grading
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Sincerely,
)a/;t1-1*, ()b.t7-\
aro Ann Olsen
Assistant City Planner
CITt'OF
EEifrIfiH[SSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
August , 1988
tlr. anil Mrs. Bob Pfankuch
100 Sandy Eook Road
Chaahassen, IrlN 55317
anil
t{.r. Steve Frost
80 Sandy Hook Road
Chanhassen, irlN 55317
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Pfankuch and Mr. Frost:
Encloseil for your review is a leEter from Mr. Paul Burkereviewing his field investigation of your property aaljacenr toLotus Lake. Mr. Burke is our contact from the Fish and llililli.feService for consulting on wetland issues.
!!r. Burke felt that wetlands were preseot on the subject sitesprior to being f iJ.Ied and sodded. We are sending Mr. Burke yourinformation and pictur-es of rhat the setland lookeil like prior toits alleration. We have asked him to conment on the filling ofthe sretlands and if tha! was an acceptable way to try to removepurple loosestrife.
Since it has been confirneil that uetland characteristics existedprior to the alteration of youE shoreline area, it will beDecessary for you to receive a iretLand alteration permit from thecity. The welland alteration perDit process is a public hearingand is reviewed by the.Planning Conmission and City Council. Thecity rj.1I wait to receive comments back fron Mr. Burke on theLnfornation you have subnitted prior to initiating the rretlanaalteration permit. Once the infornralion has been received from!lr. Burke, the city ei1I contact you Eo advise you of when thenext applicaEion deadline is and rhat information is necessary tosubsrit for the wetland alteration permit process.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to call me.
ccs Barbara Dacy #b
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United States Department of the Interior
FTSH AND WTLDLTFE SERVICE
:'itfrffi*I"=I'#'
,Iu1y 11, 1988
I
III iEILY AEFEA TC SPFO
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!rs. JoAnn O1sen
iiii *.:lii;r"3:i""..
Chanhassen, tlinnesota
Dear !ls. Olsen:
ilr:".i1i.'i::tfu mT:.lilji!!":EffEi.;,T;":*.i.H. ",
f am enclosing herewrntormation h a copy of his report for your
i{.#: 3:ff.:lr.yff.i:ff ::J::H;:.additional information,
Sincerely,
n
rdrAt Eachment
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5531.7
Field
.rlr i .: 1388
CiTY 3F CHAIJhASSE
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Report of Field Investigation of four sretlahdsites within the City of Chanhassen, carverCounty, Minnesota
Subj ect :
Field fnvestigator:Paul Burke
Date : irune 30, 1988
Site No. 1
arundinacea
Following ny on-site review, I have determined that hretlandsare present at each of the four subject sites, and each ofthe first three sites have been or wiU be funpacted. Uy siiedevelopment.
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This is a lake shore wetland behind the Colonia1 GroveTennis and Beach CIub, 80 Cheyenne Terrace, and 100 CheyenneTelrace. The affected area appears to have been recentlyfilled to an elevation of approximately 1 foot (verticall
above previous grade, sodded, and stabilized at the water,sedge by a cobble wa1l. By examining the condition of theshore line vegetation on each of the bounding property lots,I found evidence of hydrological conditions itrit woutaconfirm my deternination that the adjacent properties arepalustrine emergent and palustrine scrub-shrub wetlands(Circular 39 !:r'pe characteristics of 2, 3, and 5). Theevidence provided the positive identification of each ofthree parameters needed for wetland delj.neation. The soilswere a peaty-silt (histosols), and all histosols are ahydric.soil tlT)e. The vegetation canopy qras dominated byred-ozier dognrood (eornus stolonifera), and ground coverconsisted primar j.1y-Ef-EefEiEfrTass ( philaris
leaved cattail (
Lythrum salicari rypha lEtifolIa),a). Each of thepurple loosestspecies are cIhydrophytes.
hras less thanof the affecteconditions, itsite ranges fr
l,broad-rife (
and
aboveassified
The $rate
as FACW*, or wetter designation,r level at the time of the site visi.tone vertical foot beLov, the median elevationd $retland. In consideration of recent droughtis reasonable to assune the hydrology of theom saturated to permanently flooded.
Barring any information to the contrary, we can assume thatprior to the recend shoreline enhancenint project at thissite, most, if not aII, of the recently soddea area was awetland with charactcristics and valueS simila! to those-found on the adjacent- properties. The majority of itreierdetland values courd be recovered if tht iiri-i.i. i.."""a,and the area aIlo$red to revegetate.
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United States Department of the Interior
FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
sr. PAIL nEu) OmCE (ES)
50 Park Squlr. Court
a00 Slbl.t Stm.t
SL Paul. lllaacsota 55101
August 31, 1988
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Us. iroAnn Olsen
Assistant City Planner
City of chanhassen
P.o. Box 147
chanhassen, l{innesota 55317
Dear l{s . olsen:
This responds to your Augrust 24, 1988 letter regarding
the unauthorized placement of fill in a vretland as a
method for removing purple loosestrife. l{e have
reviewed your letter, along with the attaclred
photographs of the affected site. Apparently, lt is
the position of the property o$rners that the purpose of
the r'retland fill activity was to rid the affected areaof purp le loosestrife ( Lythrun salicaria). Ihe
fo).lowing conments are pio-Ided-=or your consideration.
Purple loosestrife is a non-native plant species, a
hardy perennial introduced from Eulope. Being anexotic species, it has thrived in the absence ofcompetition from ottrer plant and animal species thatare native to the European continent. such an
aggressive invader tends to crowd out other wetland
species that are natlve to our North Amerlcancontinent, which substantlvely reduces the flsh andwildlife habitat values associated with the affectedsite. However, the other known wetland values, such asfloodwater retention, rrater guality enhancement,groundrrater recharge, etc.. remaln largely unaffected
by purple loosestrife domlnation. It is for this
reason that ne consider the aestruction of a wetland to
remove purple loosestrj.fe to be an inappropriate
remedy.
Da lltLl taltR To
SP?O
Attached Ls a small pamphlet from the ltinnesota
Department of Natural Resources that proscrj.bes both
mechanical and chemlcal. controls for this undeslrablespecies. we encourage the organizati.on of neighboring
property or.rners for the Purpose of devetoping and
sEP i 1988
t,
,a
irrstituting a control program that can produceeffective controls in three to five years with thelimited use of herbicides and without the loss of otherrretland values.
Sincerely,
Acting Field Supervisor
Attachment
cc: Iloward Krosch, MN DNR, St. Pau1, MN
e
2
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;Iames L.
Date: February 10, 1989
To: File - Chanhassen
Fron: P. Burke, SPF0
Subject: The Lotus Lake lletlands Restoratlon
I conducted a site visit rith Steve Hanson (Chanhassen/planning) at the
Lotus Lake shore line wetland site near the Colonial Grove Beach Club.
The Colonial Grove property, and the neighboring Frost and Pfankuchproperties, have had part or all of their uetl and fringe backfilled and
converted to turf. The historic ret'land boundary ras a llne roughlyparallel to the lake shore but approxinrately 50 feet landward. fhe
subject uetlands were destroyed betreen the restern boundary of the
Pfankuch property to the eastern side of the Colonial Grove property, or
Just east of the club's dock.
Such lacustrine and palustrine retland resources play an important rolein helping to maintain the physical , chemical, and biological integrityof Lotus Lake. The loss of littoral ret'lands can dramatical ly alter the
condition of lacustrine systems.
I have reconmended that the affected area have portions of the wetlands
restored in an effort to recover some of the resource values 'lost toproject implementation. I have generated a plan that includes the
approximate size, shape, and location of wetlands that should berestored. The plan displays 5 areas, ln dark-shaded triangles, that
should be excavated to a depth of 12 to 15 inches below existing grade.
These areas will act to trap, filter and lmprove the quality of-surfacerunoff moving toward the lake. Revegetation will occur naturally if the
area is left undisturbed by the I andowners/managers. Once established,
these restored wetlands should be protectbd from further disturbance,
including any attempts to a'lter the vegetation, soils, or hydrology.'Given the cornposition of vegetation on adjacent wetlands, it is likelythat the area will recover with a mix of hydrophytes that will be
doninated !l cattails and purple loosestri?e. 'Even a monotypic canopyof purple loosestrife is of greater ecological value to totui Lake thanls the exi sting turf,
The size of each of the five areas Hill vary s1 ightly, but the Iakeward
base of.each triangular area should be 15 fLet in le;6th and the
landward height of-each area shou1d be 30 feet in lenfith.
cc:
(Reg. Functl ons)
...9..,..)
FEB t 5 1989
ox(oECI{ANFiASSSI
Steve Hanson, City of Chanhassen (Planning)
Jerry Smlth, U.S, Army Corps of Eriglneers,-St. paul
aa
Pleeae csltect thi' .fflce rlthrn 30 daya of aecelpt of thle retterto dlacuaa the approprlate Eethod ",d gi-r,i ii rcetorattoa. rf ue10 aot . recgl.ve - a legpoase UtUfa ttii Jfr", ,. rust lalttateqpropriate lcgal actloa Decesaary to uphol.l the lau eod p"otcct thepubllc re futereat.
!lr. Stever Proat
Page Trro
Pleaee contact pet Lrrch of uy eteff to coorillaate Jrour aeatoEetloaefforts.
Slacerely,
MLA.'*S('*
Joirtr Lluc Stlne
RetLoaal Eydrologlst
cc3
I't209st'p
JoAaa Olaea, Clty of Chaahaeeea
Xea Earrell, USCOE
Bob Oberncyer, Baar EaglacesLEg
Steve Ieltet, C.O.
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMIIISSION
REGULAR I,IEETING
FEBRUARY 15, 1989
Chairman Conrad calleal the meeting to order at Z:35 p.m..
HEIIBERS PRESENT: Steve Ernmings, Annette Ellson, Laddt Conrad,Batzlj, Jia Wildermuth and David Headta
UEHBERS ABSENTs Tim Erhart
SIAFE PBESENT: Steve Hanson, planning Director
Brian
tuings moved,
agenda to a fter
motion carried.
llr. and l,trs. Bob pf ankuckUr. and llrs. Steve Frost
Cindy Gi lman
Thonas Gi lman
Barbara l,lontgoBery
Susan Conrad
Hansons yes.
Batzli seconded to move the Organizational IteDs on thethe Approval of l.linutes. All voted in favor and the
100 Sandy Hook Road
80 Sandy Hook Road
President, Lotus Lake Homeorrners Assn.65I3 Horsestloe Curve Lane
7 017 Dakota Avenue
6625 Horseshoe Curve Lane
Steve Hanson presented the staff report.
conrad: Just one comment. our h,etland ordinance is more restrictive thanthe DNRrs and our wetraod ordi.nance speciflcarry tarks lbout areas abovethe ordinary.high water mark. aasicalry what siaf.f ls recomnending inttris report is saying that the areas thit are saniiioneJ-ui otrrergovernmental bodi.es nill get some feedback. I.n curious rlrat ne.retalking about in terms of the property thatrs above the ordinary high- uat€r nark whj.ch our. ordinance governs.
Banson: Tbe area above the ordinary high water nark is...Fisb andl{ildlife talked about. .,
Coorad: So in the red?
Conrad: And then in the blue?
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)
/ Pt BLIC HEARr NG:
J/'IETLAND ALTERATION PERHIT FOR THE FILLING IN AND SODDING OF A WETLAND ON
4\PRoPERTy zoNED RsF AND LoCATED AT 1s0 AND 80 sANDy HooK RoAD, BoB pFANKucH
AND STEVE FROST, APPLICANTS.
PubIic Present:
NaDe Adldress
.t
Plann i n
Febr ua r omrn i s s i on5, 1989 -
Heeting
Page 2
9Cy1
Hanson: Tbe blue is actually the edlge of the shoreljne. In thealternative, we looked at establishing... In tatking with Fish and9lildlife, they thought that was probaEly going a lit[le too far.
conrad: okay, we will open it up for pubric comments. t{hat r eou}d liketo do is,have the applicants for tbe permit speak to us first. EitheE ofthe applicants in relation to the ataff reporL o! anything else, if you0ould Ii ke.
Hrs. Pfankuch: Sirst of aI!., I,m a little unclear about therecomendation. Is this. . .?
Hanson: No. That.s just representative.stated a size in the last paragraph thatand come back inland 30 feet.
Conrad: I think, and
because I haveD i t aeen
do have a wetland ordiyour neighbors. Havindocks. They had dl ffeenforce the ord inance
slgni ficant. Wj th thewetland being destroye
going to take a maBut I don't knol,, t
pa r ticu !.a r problemthat's going i nto
In his meno,they should be
I believe he
15 feet in length
Hrs. Pfankuch: And what is the blue line?
Hansons lbatrs just deljneatiog rrhere the edge of the irater js non.
Urs. Pfankuch: So they're asking for a triangle between our property.
One between our property and the Honroers property and one betrreen ourproperty and. ..
Hanson: Ri ght.
l{rs. Pfankuch: weIL, all of the informati on is in the file but rrha t tewere attempting to do is get rid of the loosestrife. t{e called acontractor and he came down and started to do the excavati.ng and theViJ.lage came and looked at it and toLd us to proceed. we certainly rrantto cooperate with the DNR and whoever. We donit r{ant to cause a problem.I guess serre not totally convincedl that l.oosestrife is less of a problenthan that sod. we didnrt have cattails. lle had loosestrj.fe totalli. 7feet taII. You couldnrt see anything but loosestrife. As far asrildlife, nov, rrerve got geese living on the ahore. In fact, theyi re anuisance. Our dock is slippery fron the geese so as far as wildlife. theycertainly like j.t better not{. That isnit to aay that ue re donrt want to-cooperate, we do but I guess Herre a little unclear about exactly uhatrerll accomplish by tearing up horrever nuch re. re talking about -berE.
I donrt know if I can be a apokesperson for thatthe plan and I.n not an expert in the area but we
nance andl rerve been pretty restrictive on a lot of9 bui lt boardwalks where they nouLd like to putrent opinions of rrhat theyrd like to do but ie
because the runoff, especially through your area iswetland behind your house and Herb Bloomberg.sd, strich is probably one of the best uetlands inis real susceptible to, the water quallty ls reallyhit every tine we destroy a little bjt of wetland.thatrs an issue. It just happens that thatin your area. But al,so, there is a lot of rraterlake and we, as a community, have been trying to
town, that whole a reajor
hat
is
the
)
Plann i ng
febr ua ry
Commissioa
15, 1989 -
Meeting
Page 3
Hrs. Pfankuch: Anil we donrt disagree with your having a policy.Certainly rre donit want to cause a problern. The loosestrife, ourunderstanding rrhen r.re started the project, rras that the loosestrife was anajor problem. It certainly was a noxious thing on our shore. we hadthese big clumps of yuk and the tj.res would float in and stick in it andit r,as a real mess. Itrs hard for me to be convinced that loosestrife isbetter. You rrere talking about the wetlands, where? Behind ourproperty? Iou mean up r,rhere they,ve dug out the caEtails and build thehouses?
Conrad: Yes. And the only reason that happened is because they got thepermit to do that many, many years ago. They had a subdivision thatsuperceded our ordinance. Thatrs probably one of the best functioningq,etlands in the city. Itrs beautiful but i.t,s being buried right now.Itrs not your problem and it doesnrt reaIly, it may end up to be a littlebit of your problem but that has nothing to do on this paiticular one.
!trs. Pfankuch: tle have the sewers also, and Irm sure you.re aware ofthat. I{e have two set ers on our property. One between ours and Frostrsproperty where the lrater runs dorrn and then out a culvert. Now theloosestrife had totally filleal tbat culvert. That was not draining intothe 1ake. It r^ra s backing up and doing whatever because the loosesfri fehad clogged the opening of that outlet. That stuff, I don,t knoe, rrhat you
know about it but that stuff is like, rike from outerspace. rt just ta-kesover- But werre certai.nry not in disagreement with tarking to the DNR andsee ehat it is that they're proposing. we donrt r.ran t to ba disagreeablehere but we are concerned about the Lake and certainly about ecoiogy butthat loosestrife is awful.
ConEad: Thanks for your comnents.
cindy Gilman: r rive on Horseshoe curve. r am currently the president ofLotus Lake Association. I guess a couple of the things that I rrasconcerned about is that you said that the loosestrife is a prob!.em andthat it needs to be handred. There are chemical treatments to handle theloosestrife so that the wetlands can becone healthy again and help berestorecl instead of crearcutting and filliog jn and then there eourd be nochance of any type of a natural filter to halp the lake along there. Ialso guestion, r guess the Hay it rras done. The contractor lhat di.d it, rassume most contractors know that there are laws that Ehey have to follon.I had someone come in to look at part of my lakeshore to -hetp redo itbecause it was falling apart and most conEractors are aware lhat they needto crear things through the DNR. That there are thi ngs that are prolerlydone and things that are not properly done on a lakesf,ore. Anyway, sor question the contractor. The contractor that filled it in. -l iuess itbothers me that it was gone.ahead anat done and then after the facE, theyare looking to get the permi.t now instead of before. rt seens thai theiewas an awareness there. There was an awareness of the purple roosestrifeand you knerd that was a problen and why you djdn,t seek-hei.p or talk to
prevent that kind of runoff. Whether it be wetlands that are under ourcontrol or wetlands that are under DNR control or somebody elses. Itrsbeen a city policy to be real strjngent on what we do.
Planning Corunission ueeting
February 15, 1989 . page 4
counseL or talk to people to find out what you courd do about theloosestrife and rrhat was legal and erhat rras not. I guess thatrs it..Thank you.
Thonas Gilman: rrm also from Horseshoe curve and r guess my problem withthis is ttlat this has been done previously where peoile havi come in.rhey've altered their land. r don,t think ttrese people just fell off acabbage truck and r think that they know that you- neld a-permit eor itristype of thing- r think that they decjded to slep ahead oi the lair. Havethe cork-done figuring it nould be easier to come and get a perroitafternards. r think they shourd be requlred to return-it to it.s naturalcondition and then once that.s done, tlien come in and make thisPresentation because this is an afterfact. r donrt think that the lakewas taken into consideration. r think that the loosestrife is being usedas kind of a scapegoat.
conrad: ?iro guick comments. what are the contractorr s responsi.biritiessteve when they start excavating around a lake? what do thEy have to do?Do they need a bui lding permi t?
WildeEmuth: Do we require an excavating permit of dirt contractors?
Hanson: yes.
Wildernuth: So he didn't come jn and apply for one?
Hanson: I found an excavating permit in tbe file. I donrt know thehistory behind when it was done. rt could have been done after they hadstarted but Irm not sure if thatrs true or not.
conrad: would you make sure that city councir knows whether it was trueor not by the time this gets to them.
WilderEuth: It sounds like the contractor ought to be...
conrad: r think so. Ttre applicant nade some comment about staff givingthe perroission to go ahead and maybe that rras Ehe permit but rrm curiouiabout staff saying 9o ahead.
llrs. Pfankuch: Do you have a copy of the permit? A copy r.as sent to you.
gansoni I think it's the last page in your packet.
wildermuth: The guestion is, did that predate the rrork or postdate it?fhe actual rror k.
l{rs. Pfankuchs It did not postdate...
Conrad: Steve, can I assume that when lt says pai.dt, 23919 that that meansee gave, the applicant gave money which basically says re gavePeroission? Is that what it takes?
Planning Cornmission
Eebruary 15, 1989 -
f{ee t i ng
Page 5
Hansons WelI, that'spermit there I s someonesheet and I donrt kno!,
not -
Conrad: I think by the timeIittle bit more anal rflaybe Mr.that. Any other comments?
where Irm a little confused because normally on a
$rho has signed off on it. I,ve only got hj.s frontif therers something signed on the baik sheet or
this goes
Ashuorth
to City Counci 1,
can fill us in a
you shouldlitt1e bit know a
on
Barbara l{ontgomery: My nalae i.s Barbara ttontgomery and I live on DakotaAvenue about a block above where this developnent is. I guess I wouldjust ljke to say, Irve ljved there a very long tiure. l,!y hisband andI noved in in 1969 and I feel very protective of the aria. VeryproEective of the rake. r 10ved it dearry and Irve satched and watchedand ratched as arl of the groi{th has taken place. somebow r just have thefeeling_that perhaps some of the peopre who are moving in are not enoughaware of the importance of keeping the lake clean and whatrs going tohappen. who wanEs to rive around a dead take furl of dead fiah? -rt doeshappen. Itrs happening to lots of the lakes. I'd just like to make aprea maybe for more pubric understanding. ttaybe foi more respect. uaybefor tougher poricing of the ordinance. t guess that,s arr I [rave to siybut r really feel very strongly about the area and r think maybe that airof you do or you wouldnrt be out here.
Headla noved, Batzri seconded to close the public hearing. Arr voted infavor and the motion carri.ed. The public hearing was cl6seil .
Headla: Urs. Pfankuch, you indicated that the, I donit know what you!exact words were. rou got the go aheail from the vilrage. what exaltlysere you referring to? you got the go ahead from the Village.
llrs. Pfankuch! Itrs in the permit. Have you seen the perDit? ttay I showyou the perBi t?
Headla: ItD not sure if I.m Iooking at the same thing you a!e.
l{rs. Pfankuch: our contractor, they stopped the rrork antt they came dornand looked at it and they issued this permit. y understanding is thatthe perni t.
Headlas okay, it's the same thing. so you interpretted that as the go
ahead?
!!rs. Pfankuchs yes. They didnrt say stop.
Headlla: Iou indicated here the reason you wereto lake. I see no mention on Loosestrife at allthe doninant reason now.
llrs. Pfankuch: Itis always been the reason.
Headl.a: I didnit see it on the application.
doing itbut yet is to improvethat tends to
Iot
be
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Planning Conm j. ssion
February 15, 1989 -
Meet j ng
Page 6
l{ildermuth: Iim trying to findthe boats and eaterways section
Headla: That.s fine. I guess I look at this the samthe first.of the year. I think we should not go foron a permit. I think we're Loading down the s[,aff .this even cane before us until those 3 conditions tharecomrnended to approve, I see no reason at aIL uhy thBtrouldnrt be met before the planning Conrnission eienbest, I think we ought to table it until they do getknoH what the DNR ls going to approve. Our conitifionrestricti.ve and Ird like to see-lhat before Ird eventhis. Thatrs all I have.
our ord inance
i?
e rray I started out
is. It should be under
a lot of condi tionsI see no reason rhyt the sta ff
ose cond i ti ons
approval. I donrts are a little moreconsider approving
sees that. At the
nha t
r i9h
Hanson: Itis under the r.retlands section.
wildernruth: r see it. How and in what maDneE are we more restrictivethan the DNR in terms of...structure?
Han
rhi
alt
flethi
altIt
und
tlllderrnuth: rf that'is the case, if that irere the approach that ee wourdhave taken lnitialry, where a wetland arteration permit wourd not rearlyhave been an issue, or according to the ordinance atructure sourd have -
recommendled a boardnalk, r think that thelr shoreline shourd be restoredto itrs original state and lf a boardwalk is desired by the propeEtyouners, then I think that uould be appropriate. Irm surprised Lhat- paul
Burke in- his original letter where he used some fairly sErong languageBaying that the rretlandt alteratlon peroit should aefinitety not U6granted, would come back and make uhat appears to be a reLatively tokenrequilernent of these 15 by 39 trlangles-. Right across fron that propertynae the Dolce property or adjacent to that and we...
Conr.d: We didnit let them do anythlng.
wildermuths The planning commission did not arl.ou anything to be donethere. The ci.ty counci r did not arlow anything to be done there. r thinkif re go along with paul.,s latest recomrnenda t i 6n, we send a message tolakeshore owners that they can perform this rrork. They can alter theuetland and cone in for a Eermit after the fact andt itis alright. I
son: r guess rrm not necessarily sure that werre nore restrictive. rnk we have a more detaired review and we require them to do a wetranderation permi.t and when you do that, thatrs when you have thexibility.to arloe, what kind of alteration you do. Norrnalry r think ins situation, if they had cone in, I doubt lou r.rould have l;oked at aneration other than allowi.ng them to have a boardwalk out to the dock.hink that would be your normal approach to Ehis situation, if it nasisturbed.
)
l{rs. Pfankuch: r didn't do the appticati on so r donrt know but we had anearry letter, in fact r think it predates that application, discussing theloosestrife. r dontt know about the chronorogy. r,ve got some otherinformation bere.
PI ann i ng
Februa r y
Commission
15, 1989 -
t{ee t i n9
Page ?
further think that it oughtget an excavating permit inall I bave.
be very difficult for thisCity of Chanhassen in the
conEractor tofuture. That I s
to
the
Batzri: r guess rtd rike to feel the way Jiur does to some extent. rlook at that permit that was issued, whicf, we donrt rearly have a}l thefacts on it but if r l,as a landowner and rny contractor went and brought meback a permit like that, r'd go ahead and Eo it. For us to say now, thatuell you shourdnr t have done it and ne don,t knos under irha t cir.umitin"""re issued a pernit, I think is a littl.e bit critical on our part sor guess r'D not in a position to say they shoul.d or ahouldn,i have beenable to do it and rrn not going to iast ltones at this point because rthink to some extent they nay have depended on that petiit and rrm notgoing to, r think therers been kind of some arregati6ns that they acted inbad faith and Irm not willing to take that step iignt nor. -
llildernuth: But therets no indication the perrnit nas granted. you paythe fee sben you fir.e the permit. rrom thii ee canrt [eii-invthing.
Batzri: r kno!, aod r can'!t. telr anything and thatrs rrhy rrm tryi.ng not tocast stones one way or another. aut what r guess I,d rike to sEe f,appenis-r rrourd prefer at this point, without knoiing additional facts, we'renaking a judgment when rrer re in a position wheri we donrt know arr thefacts. r assume lhat wetve got th-se triangles trere ueciuse-there'sculverts running between the property lines? or no? where are theculverts Iocated?
Bob Pfankuch: Not in all cases.
l{rs. Pfankuch: Therers one culvert between our property and the Frosts.
Batzlis Okay. I rrould assume that thisnain runoff occurs between the propertiesis the expert and Ird be, at this point,go ahead and do it his way.
report iras geoerated on where theand Ird like to think that Burkewithout knowing othe! facts, say
Conrad: Did the same contractor do
Hanson: I assume so. I doott know
A1
on Coloni al. Grove?
a fact.
the contractor on the
the work
that for
Smith wasnilderDuth: I don.t think so.Colonial crove job.
Hanson: Oo the entire subdivision, is that shat
Conrad: No. That r sit to you.
sort of before your tlne.
l{ildermuth: Thi. s one looks
you're talking about?
I shouldn i t have addressed
Conrad: Didn't we have some
that I s another story.
like Harlan Johnson. Something Johnson.
problems wittr Cotonial Grove dumping, uelI,
Ellson: r donrt have a whole rot new from what these gentremen said. rrmPretty much in agreement_. rrm surpri.sed that this comlromise is whatrsbeing offered by Mr. Burke, to teti you the truth. r iouia-want it to be,go back to where it's supposed to be. r think it does agiin send a badsignal to people. rf we put in laws to protect these things, the h,irdrifeand you irant the nests to grow there and-things ri.rre-ttrat -ina thi" ""nhappeo as easily as.this did, it realry distuibs me. Barbara.s letter isdated on the 29th of June and there wa3 a reply and yet the applicationfor this atteration permit isn,t done untii iiiui;t.'-i JoI't xno, auootthat- r donrt know $rhy it uasn't filed. rf aarbaia went on this andthere was conversation, r-think theyrre almost forced to the point ofmaking this come to a head and they irere tryrng to-uroia it-as nuctr aspossible raEher than facing it heae on uy titting them wait ttri.s long. rwourd-see going back and putting the 5g ieet baci to rrhere it is. r-doniteven like the compromise of rheie rirtre triangies. i;;;,I tr,lnr that'sfair to the lake or fair to arl the people tha[ we have tord you can notdo this in the past. 'Except you guyi bicause you arready did it andr realize that. r don't thinl thitls fair to invuoav-.iie ind to nhatrerre trying to preserve with these Lakes.
Emnings: r rourd like to know from the pfankuchs and the Frosts erhetheror not they knew pri?I.to doing any of this lrork that Ehere may be DNR andcity or Fish and wirdlife regurati6ns that uould affect what you want todo with your property? vte haven, t heard you say whether you Xner...
Bob Pfankuch: can r comtnent again? can r say sornething in addi tion tothat? Youive discussed a whore 10t of things that some of the answers are
?]r?ilab.l9 to you that were not presented on open discussion prior to. Ithink this needs to be a give and take sessio-n. rt,s not iii<. ,r" pr"="ntour case and you guys talk about a lot of things and sometimes inlgnorance because they havenr t been discussed. rtrs how nuch do youPresent them with in this case? Number one, the contractor, HarlanJohnson- Harran r.ra s recommended to me because he does work'on Lakellinnetonka- on the shorerine of Lake Minnetonka and works in thecoronunities in Lake Hinnetonka taking care of rreeds, racking the lakeshore80 r assume that he knows something about taking care of lales. r an nota lawyer. I am not an expert in the DNR or rretiands or on the cityg.!ii:l:::: ^-I :.. " propeity owner. r have a-responsibirity. r thoughtr- exercised that by hiring a contractor that does nork on r,ake ttinnet5niashich is supposedly the gieat }ake of !,linnesota, or at least for the ?wincities. r hired Harran Johnson. He came doirn and estimated the sork. Hetalked to rny nei.ghbor steve. t{e agreed on a price. said, do you knowrhat- you're doing? you work on Lake innetonka, you musti yes, noproblem. r hate to say that'is ignorance and r.m itill responsibre and Iagree with that. .r stirr am and hers onry my agent but it-.s not ri[e-you!3y" !o go to the regislature to do.a litare soik on your rot is wtra t iimthinking. He,s the expert. I hired the expert, alth6ugh stiIlresponsible. Harlan proceeds rith the sork. somebody 6omes down andstops. then. He goes down to the city Halr. comes back tbat sane day and::i9 it's.okay. - I-was working oi.thour a permit or whatevei. ft" peimit.sDeen granted and I've been a110wed to proceed and complete the nork. Andwe can argue about how much rras started and how much nas left but it.s avery clear point in fact, according to Harran Johnson and according to the
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Planning Comrni ss i on HeetingFebruary 15, 1989 - page 8
Planning
Bebr u a ry
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15, 1989 -
Meeting
Page 9
documents, that the City allowed the work to proceed. Now I had talked toBarb Dacy shortly after I moved into this property. Granted, I'm not a 20year old landohrner who has seen thjs grol, from an urban, wonderful greenreserve lake into an urban recreational lake. Thatrs another argument.
. you may be a protectionj sts and you may thi.nk that we need to grow. Ihate to bring that in but it is a fact of life. Now there are severalother facts having to do with th j.s. The sewer which runs, and it.s asewer by the way, wtrj.ch runs do$rn betereen my property and the Frosts,carries aII of the garbage out of the city itreet diiectly into the lake.Tin cans, pop bottles, you name it. Several unaentionables flol, into tbelake until theyrre impedecl by the weeds antl they build up and eventuallyshoves this whole nasty garbage out onto the lake. The iact that thereis50 feet of armost impassable weeds makes it impossible to porice and creanthis wonderful Lotus Lake lakeshore. Of the trash thatrs left by the icefishermen, meaning the bottoms of fjsh houses frozen into the ice andcanrt be removed, which I personally removed this year after I had accessto them. And the tin cans and the pop bottles and the tires and all thegarbage because Irm on the bail side of the lake which is where the windblows so I get aII the garbage. If I don,E have access to that, I canhardly be expected to clean it although I was in up to my hips in themuck, tbis wonderful rretland, estolic soi. I or whatever ia,s aalled by theDNR. Carrying all of this garbage sitting on the lakeshore. I mean it,sreally a beautiful site. You ought to come down and see it. In fact,what r recommend is that you table this whole discussion untir next Augustand Ird jnvite you all dovrn on a Saturday to look at the lakeshore, thatwhich has been improved by Frost anil pfankuch and that which has not beenimproved and you can decide rrhat is the best thing for Lotus Lake. I,vegot to believe that you trould be in our favor. I do an awful lot of workon that lakeshore. As far as lretlands are concerned, right now in lhisdrought condition wtrich may exist for another 5g years, Ehere is noe, 50feet of wetland out beyond the enal of my 35 foot dock which in 3 weekstine takes loosestrife from seed to bloom and more seed. you just canrtlmagine rhat thatrs like. rtrs totarly destroyed. There was in articrepublished in the chanhassen villager erhich talked about loosestrife ingreat.detail, published last August and I brought copj.es along andhighlighteit the issues. rt totally destroys the arei for niralife. Theissue about wildlife is bunk. If you have loosestrife, you donrt havewildlife.. I have personally picked up one of those clumps. I ssear togod it weighed 159 pounds. This big nasty, mucky, floating ness on theshoreline and you just about canit destroy it. I put so littte sod in,the City Planner said about a foot, if you look at the plot, I think thatthe erevation is 5 inches. rt's a half a foot over shaE the ordinary highnater leveL is at the finish cobble wall, as it.s called. The rock tallthat I put in. I believe that if the lake comes back to jtrs naturallever so ittd be at the top of the wall which wilr prevent the loosestrifefrom growing. The loosestrife grows right at the edge of the water andthen it proceeds from there in both directions. is a totalry unmatchableplan. It has been declared a noxious need. The property oin"r= "r"responsible for jt,s removal and the only removal is a totallynonserective chemical called Rodeo which has to be sprayed on the prants.Thal means it kills all of the grosing things. AII. A-cording to theDNR, Hollandhorst, whoever he is, I believe it t,as from the DNR, once youdo that, the next year, the only thing that grolrs on this valuabl.e wet1and
is loosestrife. That'is the onry thing that comes back. vrould you like topour Rodeo into Lotus Lake? Beiause the weed grows in the watei, not inthe dirt. Thatrs the suggestion to take care of loosestrife. rt is anoxious ueed and it is the responsibility of property owners to remove it.rn fact, the state has offered funds to rrerp ine-pro-perty owners removeit. we didnrt ask for that. we didnrt throw in 6 feet of filr like-wisdone in cattair shramp on TH 1or. r put in 5 inches of dirt only to levelit. That tdas the oniy purpose or irr!-iirr was to lever it so it could besodded so it could be minaged. yet, the pictures, itr" coiorea picturesthat t.ere, presenteat. shorrs that the looseltrife is continuing to grow upthrough the sod. I mean r didnrt bury it to the point ehere- r killed ii.r thought r did or r rhought r rrourd but at teast r can mo,, ii an--ie"l-it
9grn: This stuff grows to 7 feet. rf anybodyrs been out to the old LogTheater and looked around the grounds out the;e, you can see that thatProperty has literaIIy been taken over and destroyed by purpleroosestrife. That is a very real hazard. rt,s a- hazaid- to Lotus Lake.It doesnrt.do anything, to the wildlife, the property owners, the lakeusers and it prevents me from cleaning up th- glrbale that ;olrs down thestorm serrer from the street. Dead animals. r mean you name it, itisthere. -rf you_ think that it's great for Lotus Lake, cod hetp alr of us.End of discussion. Any other q[estions?
Conrad: Did that answer your question?
or not you were aware before youthat the work you were proposingCity regulati ons or regulation
Emmings: No. My question was whetherhired this contractor to do r.rork tberedo might be subject to DNR regulations,
any other governmental en t. i ty?
to
by
Bob Pfankuch: steve, r started out by saying that rrm not an attorney.Irn not familiar Lrith the DNR. I,m not familiar with Chanhassenisregulations regarding oetlands. r hired a contractor rrho does nork on thelake. Does work on Lake Minnetonka and on Lotus Lake a fair amount. Heprobably never wilr again after this and r,rith or wj.thout cause, thatrs foryou to decide. The point is, r hired a lakeshoEe contractoE who does alot of work for governments around Lake Minnetonka. The naturalassunption is that this person knorrs $hat he.s doing. If you need apernit. if you need a rretlands alteration permit, a-builttiig permit,
r- nean when you hire a contractor you expect that person to-bi able to dothose things. That's a normal expectation and r carry the responsibility.I accept that but. isnrt that nornal to expect that?
Enmings: I guess it just doesn.t answer my question.
Bob Pfankuch: The question is no, I was not aware that anything wasrequired on Lotus Lake but r uas aware that if it were requirea, it nouldbe, recognized by a contracEor rrho does rork on a Lake in liinnesota in theTwin Cities area, Lake Minnetonka.
Enmingss rs that true for the Frosts as well. That you were not auarethat this would be regulated by any government at the time?
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Planning Commissi.on ttee t i ngFebruary 15, 1989 - page 10
Planning
Pebruary
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15, 1989 -
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Page 11
steve Erost: The contractor came down and he got a permit and r assumeilthat everything was okay. He got the permit. That was our understanding.
Enmings: so againl then you'!re terring us too that prior to the time thes-ork was begun, and r'm not tarking about thE time oi the permit. prior tothe time the work uas begun, you were not aware that there were anygover Eental entity that might be regulating rrhat it nas you uere going todo to your shoreline there?
Mrs. Pfankuch: we came and tarked to Barbara before. r donrt know, ayear before and ne said rrerve got this Loosestrife alr over the shore.what cao we do? And she said, werr eerre not sure nhat to do about it.Thatrs what she said. She said, wetre not sure what to do with it. Ifyou-can get rid of itr get rid of it. That,s rrhat she told us exactly.we didnrt do anything until later Hhen lre decided to call Harran becaisewe didn't knon what to do. she certainly didnrt say to us. you dastentouch the Ioosestrife because it has alr these valuable prop-rties andr Eesent the ioplications that werre trying to do somettri ng^ undlerhanded .Werre concerned about ecology aIso.
Bob Pfankuch: I'll do nothing to theAugust and Iook at it. yourre going
cesspool.
lakeshore, and you come down into not be happy. It.s like a
l,!rs. Pfankuch: It uas just full of j unk.
my quest ion.Emnings: Mr. Frost didnrt anslrer
Frost: I left it with the contractor toto get permits and anything that he hadyou to do that.
do what he knew he neededto do, t.hat I s your job. I rm
Steveto do
hiring
Emnings: And did you say that to him before he startedthere uere any necessary permits, herII get them or didhe'd take care of it? Was it discussed at aII with him?
Steve Frost: ...he would do that. That wasI hired him, he's supposed to do that.
his
you
uork? That ifjust assune
part of his job. l{hen
Ennings: Did
Steve frost:
Etmings: t{as
Steve FEost:
Enmings: Were
tha t?
you get an estimate from him?
Yes .
it wr i tten?
I thi.nk it was yes.
there any items oir there for permits or anything like
Steve Frost 3 AII he gave us was a total of the job I think.
)
Plannin
Pebr ua r
ommi ss i on5, L989 -
Meeti n9
Page 12
gCyI
Emmings: The application for theget an excavating permit when you
remov ing?
Hanson: Yes, you would. In both cases.
Ermings: The excavating permit is real vague. Itts hard to know whatthey're going to do but I think there was a screw-up in our, it looks totre like there was a screw-up in shoever night have issued this excavatingPelEi.t because lt clearry incLuded a wetland. There should have been a[etland alteration permit which can only come from the Clty Council.sonething got screwed up here. who knois what but maybe you can f inil outDore about it between now ind the city council, rike Laddl- suggested. Theother thing, I rrondered rrhy r{etve got another property lnvolvid here.This Colonial crove property and their propertt is affected by this planof Fish and Wildlife to do some Eestoration here too but theyrre not infront of us for a permit.
excavating permit, I donrt know,fill something in as opposed to
do you
Hanson: r became aware of that officially when paur and r went down andlooked at the property to see that that area had been altered too. Iaasume that it was done at the same time but I donrt know that it was ornot .
Bob Pfankuch: It was.
Enmings: It rras all done at the same time by the same contractor?
Bob Pfankuch: Yes. And it vras mentioned in one of the complaintstbe City in an earlier letter and then subsequently dropped for noleason oEher than the fact that probably I50 people belong to thatAssociation.
Emnings: Just comment wise, fir8t of all, I have no doubt that the
Pfankuchs and the Frosts did something that they thought was anlnprovement to their property and they don't have any desire to hurt thelake. Irn not even remotely suspicious of their motivation but theproblen se have nith doing nothing here ls that lt nakes it, like Jitnsaid, it becones the smart thing to do to be dunb. fo be unaware ofregulations that are there to proEect the lake. If I go out and do theuork, I get ny handl slapped and naybe I have to 6it and 1isten to peopletalk nasty about ne but I uind up basically wlth shat I uanted. vfhereaslf f go and apply to the City fo! a permit to do the same uork, I.D goingto be denied. So that really puts a premium on being a cowboy and thateure is not what ee want to see. On the other hand, I donrt think it willserve any purpose .at all to punish these folks by naking them return that50 feet to erhat it was if the people who are supposedl to understand thisthing froru a technical point of view, Iike Burke, think that something canbe done to get some value to the rretland back there sueh as this p),an.
whether this is a reasonable plan or Dot, I have no raay of knosing but Ipould trust that he does so I guess Ird be inclined to 90 along t ith thestaff recommendatjon as a way to get the natter resolved. And- I guess I.dsay to the Frosts and the pfankuchs too, that we really see a lot nore ofthis than rre rrant to. We.re constantly seeing people comlng in here
from
stated
)
Planning Commissioo
February 15, 1989 -
Meet j. ng
Page 13
asking for wetland alteration permits after theyrve artered the rretlandsand it's rear irritating -to. us-. .yourre presumea to know irhat cityordinances are and Mr. pfankuch is absolutely right when he say i[,s hisresponsibility. It is. So I guess I,d go a-long-with the st;ffrecommendation but the onry change that i,d maki is on nunber 3. rf thisis approved, that the app). ican ts - prov ide a schedule ana ritt-just insertthe sords, acceptable to the city staff, for compreting ieit6ration. Justso the schedule is a reasonabre one. r guess r ihink E,hat ,h"terer DNR,the hoops that DNR and Fish and wildrife make them junl it,roogt r guessyould be punishment, if thatis what it is, enough ai rir as rio coicerned.That's aII I have.
nildernuth: Just for ar.etland, or I mean didcontractor?
point of clarification. Did nerre actually issue the excavating
actually issue apermit to this
Hanson: Thatrs where .Irm unclear whetherdocunentation Irve come across is what was
Hrs. Pfankuch 3 They cameproperty. The City d id.Jobnson. Now we assumedpermit, we had no reason
Mrs. Pfankuch: t{e heard
We didn,t even know thisthere, it r.rasnrt a swamp.
llildermuth: lrr. pfankuch said that the contractor came back and said thateverythingrs alright. He applied, made the application.
down with the contractor and looked
They were down there walking aroundthat if they came down and they gaveto bel ieve that. . .
nildermuth: It sounds like we,ve got an internal problen.
Beadla: we donrt know what the story is.
t{irder.uth: r'o. surprised that this excavating contractor ,,ith hisexperience and working in wetrands and Minnesoi., *ouian;i inow that hehad to come in for a permit up front. But even after tre dld come in forthe perroit, if he did get a permit, an approved pernit, apparently theCity didn't ralse any obiection.
&nlngs: He nay be savy enough to knoe that lt does pay to be a corrboy.
Headl'a: Thele are very successful nen in our coopany whoia notto sas,yourre better off 9oin9 atread and do nhat you uant to-do and get lt done,beg forgiveness and get your hand slapped itran git piioi iiprovar. B;t;'he got a lot of stuff done. I see the sarne thiig hire.
Ennings: rrve given that as advice to cllents because it does nork. rdonrt knoc, that you 9g ,"--. city to stop it but hera ,. t"J-tn. perfectopportunity to stop it. we discovered it uas going on and stopped it andthen let it conEinue. Thatrs our faul.t. Thatis tfie Cily;s-fairit, ia ---
seeEs to ne.
a lot of talk about rretlands after the fact also.h,as a t etland. We tried to mow it. We.d go dornIt was just c!. umps of loosestrife growi ni. Now
it
in
rras or no t .the packet.The only
at thewith Ha r 1an
hi.m this
Planning
February
Comm iss i on15, 1989 -
Meetj ng
Page 14
we realize it,s an exotic wetland but...
conrad: r haEe to be an educater and r donrt like doing that in thissituation but r think the things that you see being a ritter in the lakeare ninor compared to r.rhat a r,retland does. Again, r im not going to boieyou with details here but a wetland is really-taking the ct6micits out orthe stuff running into ttre rake. The tires and som6 of the stuff that yousee, thatrs fine and it,s disgusting and we agree.
Bob Pfankuch: How about the Rodeo sprayed into the lake?
conraal: Rodeo wourd not be acceptable in my mind but purple loosestrifeis better than destroying arr kinds of filtiation. criss'ii not ufiltration system. rt.doesntt do the job. wetlands, the thing withpurple roosestrife is it chokes out tbe cattails and now the c;ttairsdonrt have a chance to grow. so if you showed me how you are restoring itso the cattails courd grow, r could understand it but lou havenrt done it.The grass is not a filtration.
Conrad: I donrt know that it can bene is not a solution to the problern.
Bob Pfankuch: you need to come doi{,n and look
l,lrs. Pf ankuch: I don, t know if that can be.
done either but what you.re telling
at it.
happy to. Again, I,m notConrad: I see it fairly frequently and I,d betrying Eo be an educater, well I am. I am.
susan conrad: r just want to make a comment about the education. r donrtknon how long you've rived on Lotus Lake but every year, at least. once ayear, a-nehrsletter goes to every homeouner on the lake educating about thevalue of wetlands. Arso, in the nevspaper, the Lotus Lake Assoiiation haspublished articles about wetland value and about the control purpleIoosestrife and the value of loosestrife so we have not only, as anAssociation, sent out letters but yre have held neetings and talked andeducated and we have done that for at least 5 years. so not being awareof retlands and not having them identifiedr unress you just Eoved onto thelake. wetrand identification has been avalLabre to arl of us and sent toall of us oD Lotus Lake and arr of the city but the Lotus Lake HomeowneEsAssociation has gotten tbat inforrnation to their homeoirners. And as far,I have just one more point, as far as the DNR recommending taking theeetland back to itrs original state. My experience, which most of youknow bas been years hrith the DNR. has leen ttrat their jurisdiction Snds atthe high water nark so they will not even venture to recommend anythingbeyond that. I rrould ask the planni.ng Conunission to invite the Corps 6fEngineers in to teII you rrhat the value ls beyond that because they arethe only agency Irve run across that can give you a total picture anddoesn't get hung up in juri.sdictions. They dlo have a jurisdiction endingbut. they alg a_recomnending body rather than permitting in many cases.Fish and wi.ldrife does that even better so they can tell you t6e wholepicture and rrm sure thatrs i{hy the- DNR is saying to renovate a portion ofit. They can only talk to the portion that Eheyire responsible for.
Planning Commission
February 15, 1989 -
Meetj ng
Page 15
conrad: r rrant to make a few comments erithout being redundant for othercorurents. one, it looks rike there was ao internar probrem ana r reiiiywould like, r rearly do need staff to teLr us what hippened. The commeitsfrom the appricants are valid. rf we don,t catch itr-if our staff aoesniirook at the documents, these are charted wetrands. it,s not ttraE-tirey;1s'not.charteal. They are so it looks like we screeed up and r need staf? torevie!, that. And staff to review it to tell us how ihey're going toPrevent that. r just doesnrt make sense to me. secondl!, rrm not sure$hether the appricants knew lrhat they were doing or not-ind rrm realconcerned with the contractor and r guess we should, rrd also like to havestaff terl. us what they uourd recommend that we do lo the contractor uhouas 9oing this- Anybody who is in the area knows that chanhasseo is atough -ordinance , period. And we alo that for a purpose because re have aIot of lakes and we have a lot of runoff and a iot-of building.Contlactors should know so I guess Steve, I'd like to have staff review tous what ue should do r+i th a contractorrs that more than like1y knows rrhathers doing. Third, r agree. I don't think we need to r"iiJr" the rretlandtotally. we can probably do with r,rhat Mr. Burke is recommending here andget some value out of it and r rrould hope that we could agree. r thi.nk mybiggest concern is we rearry have been itrict wittr-youi nEittuo." ana youineighbors care. They care i whore lot. r think tde don,t wint to set anexampre, for whatever reasons, we just donrt want to set an example thatit can be done. we want to set an-example that people itiir care auoutthis and r think you do. r guess rl take ur. gurie,s recommendation asbeing valid and acceptabre. on the other hand, Irm not convinced stevethat we've rearly Looked at it from our ordinance standpoint. Again, itrsan easy uay of rookj.ng at this thing and saying, welr, Lhis othei agencywho. conlrols everything above the.high watei mirt< says this but r wint youto be rear confident that our ordinance, that we havinrt set an examprefor another situation. rf this is fine, this takes care of the prob-lem,In okay g,ith that. rf what Mr. Burke says is going to filter the runoffthatrs.coming dosrn between the tlouses and-get tfie mixinum rrito", thatrsokay sith me but r rrant staff to tarl us ana ir you need herp from Ehecorps of Engineers or whoever, r think ne'11 ask them that. The questionin ny nind is rrhether.we issue the permit. r,m rearry trung up and -the
really philosophic thing is that a wetland arteration perrnlt shich hasbeen al.ready, the wetland's been filled i.n. we issue i permit to restoreit. r don't know. r don't know how to dear with that oie. rhose are mycoolents. Ird take a tBotion from somebody.
Emings: rrm going to rnove that the pranning commission reconoendaPProval of the Wetland Alteration permit t8B-13 subject to the conditionsthat are set forth in the- staff report with the addifion it"i r nentionedin number 3 where .the appticants piovide a schedule .cc"piiuie to the ciiyStaff for conpleting restoration.
Batzli: I'1I second it. What do
Conrad 3 That.s another coBroent.
Emnings: WeIl, werve got peoplethat's not part of this. I time
we do with Colonial Grove?
I think they should be in here.
here whorve made an application. I think
somehow rrerve got to telt them theyrve
got to colle in and apply for a wetland alteration permit too.
Thomas Gilman: And they can get their hand slapped too.
Enoings: we1l, yes. I guess it.s not my job to beat people up when thevscrew up. Especially erhen the city seems to have screied up at the same-tloe.
Conrad: I think it is a separate lssue but I thjnk we do want to.
Ermings noved, Batzli seconded that the planning comission recormendapprovaL of wetLand Alteration permit l8B-13 subject to the folloningconditions:
I. Prior to City Council consideration, the applicants agree tomitigation prans and reguirements of ttinneiota oepartment of NaturalResources and U.S. Fish anil Wildlife service.
2. Applicants receive permits fron Minnesota DNR.
3. Applicants provide a schedule acceptable to the City Staff for
compl,e t i ng restoration.
Emnings, Wildermuth and Batzli voted in favor of the ootion. Ellson,Headra, and conrad voted in opposition to the motion and the motion failedrith a tie vote of 3 to 3.
Ellson: r move the Pl,anning coruraission recommend deniar of the wetrandAlteration Permit *88-13.
Batzl i :to do?
IrlI second it for discussion purposes. What good is that going
I{lldernuth: Thatrs just the converse of wbat ee Just voted on.
Ellaon: I trant it to go fornard to the City Council oith sonething but Iuant them to hash out the details. Like you said, lt will be on recordthat they got the okay to do it. I donrt sant that to be theEe.
conrad: But the nain reason r voted against stevei3 notion is because hetalked about, rerre really reacting to nhat the DNR said and I donrt knowthat $erre reacting to uhat our ordinance says.
wildermuth: Our ordinance, I fasnrt too proud of our ordinance shenI just read it.
Emnings: My comrnent there Ladd irould be. Our ordinance tells us what todo when somebody comes in and applles for the pernit prior to doing thework. We got a problem h,ith our ordinance maybe when peopte come in and
iay, trve already done the irork and now Irm here to get the permit. Maybethere shouLd be a provision in there. I.m not even clear whi they applied
Planning Conmission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - p39e 15
Planning
Eebruary
Commission15, 1989 -
t{eet i ng
Page 17
for a permit.
Conrad: Because the staff has been asking then to.
Enmings: But what if they just sai.d, no, thank you?
Conrad: Then neid have to legally take care of that.
Emmings: That got them in front of us. Their applicatlonfront of us aod then I guess, I donrt know. f aonrt tfrinttells us, gives us much guidance in tbis case.
Conrad: lt doesn r t.
got
our
them in
ord inance
lleadla: Does the ordinance give you anyOr the best rre could help for is that, Ijudge it from how rrould you treat otherpermit? IF it's a boardnalk, the worsethen that they,d have to 90 back to thatthen like that. But to me that lrould be
Emnings: I suppose the other thing you can do here too, if you want tosend a rear crear messBg€., the city councir r guess could asi, what t.heyhave done there may werr be a crim-inar offense under the ordinance andthey courd ask the city Attorney to revies it for prosecution. That wouldcertainly get peoprer s attention. But again, thatis not our functionhere .
guidance if they donrt follor{ it?think Jim pointed out that youpeople if they came in with thescenario for these people would beand I donrt believe in penalizing
one way that does it.
is best, what the ordinance intends andfuture situations. Thatrs what I rrant to
Conrad: we shouldthat doesn't set a
accompl i sh .
be doing whatprecedent for
Dmmings: I agree and it seems to me, if they come in and theyrve got awetland there and they say we h,ant to modify it, then we look at ourordinance and we say no, because werve done thai before right next tothen. }le say, no you canrt do that. rourle going to jusi f,i"" to rive[ith your Loosestrife and put out a boardnali and tha-t,s that.
tlildermuth: But the contractor came in and got a perrnit approved.
Ellsons But it rasn't signed.
tlildernuth: But if you lead this letter fron Barbara real carefurly,towards the back of your packet. Read this letter fron Barbara reai.carefully. your conlractor, Hr. Johnson, promptl.y complie- r{ith ourrequests to submit plans and the needed infornation foi issuance of, agrading pernit. rt implies that- the grading perrnit tas granted becauseshe goes on to say, however, it has come to-oirr attentioi that the areiuhich you conducted the grading may have contained retland vegetation.aPparentry, when whoever it was from the city uent dot,n there with thecontlactor to look at this thing, somebody fiorn the city agreed to thepelrlit. The implication is that the permit was granted-ana ur. pfankuchsaid that he had a permit. So you can,t fault tfr" prop"iiy orn...
in
So
)
PIann ing
February
Commi ss ion
15, I989 -
tlee t i ng
Page I8
Emmings: We've got a wetland, rre i.rant to alter it. We say no. I thinktheyrre coming in at a point where, whatrs there? They've got an alteredwetrand. Theyrve removed the r.retland or destroyed it -and w6've got tosay, rrhat are we going to do now? Given that ai the baseline, i[ afldepends on what you want to pick as a baseline. Theyr re -oming in anasaying, here's what we,ve got, noe, and we,ve got a plan tteie, alain, i-h"u"n9 way of iudging itrs efficacy as restoring wherever the propirties are,the wetland.you want Eo keep, but at reast ftrere's somebod| here who sayithat this wirr do the job to get it back to at reast some iort ofreasonable. ..
Wildermuth: Therers no
coming in for a permit
But I think therer s anand white i ss ue.
question in rny mind
and no rork had beenevent here that took
how Ird vote if somebody weredone. No question at aII.place that itrs not a black
Erunings: And
Batzli: WeIl
agreement nor,r.
I think rdeive got dirty
Irm glad the two people
hands.
that voted for the motion are in
Emmings: you voted for it too.
Batzli: Yes, but I already agreed with you two.
tlildermuth: Yes, but I didn't agree with you to begin
Conrad: Dave, your disagreement stems from lrhat? Holtto suing your vote?
Headla: r donrt believe that it shourd be denied. r really believe itshould be tabled until we find out what in the world did we really tel.rthese people. r think staff can telr us. r $ant to see lrhat the-DNR hasto say. r have no idea what they'|re going to say or the other appropriatepaEties. Then I think the peopla ought to be abie to rook at thal andthen rrhatever is reconnended, then come in with a schedule. Then rre canact- on it. werve got something documented. untit that, r donit think weought to touch it.
l'ith.
is somebody going
conrad: This is under discussion of a motion for deniar right? okay.Thatis not bad Dave. rf we donrt know. we can vote on it, w" can kilrIt or she can withdrar.r it if she so chooses but r think you;re absol.utelyright. We donrt knor., wbat staff did. Steve hasnrt done a good job ofresearching the staff on this one and r think even whether, he can do itfor city councir or he can do it for us. we might as werr hear what itis. werve got the ordioance aod ue can tlelp that ordinance. we can helpimprove it if we undeEstand how it doesnrt get enforced. rt,s probably '
good that he bring back a scenario of how this happened. But I alsothink r'cl like, other comments that you said. r,d like staff, things thatcome in at the rast second just bothers me. staff hasn.t reviewed Lhisand reviewed it to see how our ordinance pertains, which is my problem.lty biggest problem. rtis coming in today and staff hasn.t told me how ourordinance gets impacted by the recommendation so r guess there's some
I
Planning
February
Comm i. ss i on15, 1989 -
Meeting
Page 19
validity for tabling it other than thein. Thatrs a real pain. I hate to do
Bob Pfankuch: I askeal for you to table
Conrad: Well, 5 months of water goingnot sorth the risk but I think...
Bob Pfankuch: ...water that goes into
fact Ehat we have to bring it backthat to anybody but. ..
it for 5 months.
in, if itrs bad water, is probably
Conrad: A rdho I e
spend nore of ourthink about.
bunch of bad rrater goes into the lake and rreLives up here looking at the bad rrater than
that lake?
probab 1yue care to
a new subdivision that
be some kind of a ponding areayour backyard before it goes
Bob Pfankuch: I'tay I ask that the city se$rer from the street be removed?Not be allowed to drain into it.
I{ildernuth: I guess if it'swouldn't happen because therebut I donrt think you $rant ainto the lake do you?
Batzli: I think the City might want toscreen or some sort of trap if tttat's inIake at that point from a storm sewer.
in
to
in
look into a catch basin orfact erhat I s draining into
any comfort,
would haveponding area
a
the
Conrad: 9there is all the Colonialused up by a contractor, where isbett,een?
Grove, being that thatthat water going Steve?
Conrad: Do you rant to
ElIson: No, Itd rather
Conrad: Do you want to
Batzli: Sure.
Headla: I flould like toget better definition of
a motion thatdirection the
ere table this. I'dVillage realLy gave
rret I a nd is being
Is it coming
me. Most of
coming fromif it's going
1i ke to
the se
Hansons I have no idea.
Conrad: Can you find that out because that just fascinatesthatrs coming in from Eden prairie. Most of that rrater isunder TH 191 goi"S into the wetland. Irm Just reaL curiousto the subdivision to the north.
l{llilerouth: It.s goiog into all the basements around it.
Conrad: But anyray, Annette, yourve got a motion.
EIIson: I withdraw the notion.
or re can vote on it?
rithdlraw it and Dave, why donrt you do yours.
irithdra$ your second Br i an?
make
grhat
I
Planning Commiss j.on
February 15, 1989 -
Meet i ng
Page 2A
people. If we really gave them the wrong directi.on, I think werve got tolook at it a lot different and maybe the City has to suffer theconsequence. I,d like to understand, see uhat the DNR is going to
recommend and then have our applicans rook at it and subrait some type ofschedure and r think at that time the coroniar crove people shourd-Le partof thi s.
l{ildermuth: Seconal .
Headla
Perni t
f indl o
submit
wi th.
Conrad: Steve, when do
couple of ueeks?
yorl think this will cone back? Any idea? A
noved, l{ildermuth seconded to table action on wetland Alteration188-13 so staff can research what happened at the City level. Tout wbat DNR is going to recomrnend and then that the applicantsa schedule, grhich the Colonial Grove people should be includedAII voted in favor of the motion to table and the motion carrieal .
REOUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL POR PARKING AND SITE IMPROVEMENTS, ON
PROPERTY ZONED CBD, CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND LOCATED JUST EAS? OF 480
WEST 78TH STREET, CHANHASSEN PROFESSIONAL BUIDLING . PHASE I, ARVID ELNESS
ARCHITECTS, INC.
Steve Hanson presented the staff report.
Conrad: Brad, $hat do you think?
Brad Johnson! l{erve given them some rnodif lcations that are mlnor, frornour point of vies. Yolr,ve 9!t to lemernbe!, this ls being designed by theClty for us. Thatrs why he doe6 the presentation.
Conrad: You can be critical nos.
Hansons I doubt it. I donrt believe IiIl have a response fron DNR inthat period of time first of all. Secondly, I,m not sure lrhat type ofpEoblems I'm run into trying to research it because I think t'm going tohave to do some of that by phone calls r{ith previous staff becauie l-don,tbelieve there.s anything in the file.
Brad Johnson: I thiok it irill work fine. Hers gotten our comments. Itlooks like most of them have been put ln there. Like I said, itrs prettyclose to what ue r.rere requiring. In fact, the traffic auys have to lookat it... You should note that we have taken 15 feet off the back of thesouth side of the apartment building and put lt into the parking lot.That has been done as part of your previous approval of the site plan forthe apartmenE buj lding. That's rrhy this original sidewal.k had eoundaround here. It eas getting too close to the rooros. you know, for apublic walk right next to sonebodyrs bedroon is not a good idea so it was
Pulled over to the right. We're really excited about this whole project
because it just has a real nice look to it. The way it all eones
5TA'E OT
a
h0h0trs@TA
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAT RESOURCES
295-7523 METR,O REGION DTVTSION OF I12oo *ARNER RD., sr. ,or", *11'!Eio, F,LEN.
lUr. Stephen Hanson, planning DirectorCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, p.O. Box 14?Chanhassen, Minnesota 55312
re1y,
P at Llrnc
Hyttrologist
Dear Mr. ganson:
RE: PLANNING CASE 88-13 WAp, WEILAND ALTERATION, LOTUS LAKE( 10-5 )
Thank you for the oDPortunity to review and comflent on application
iiilirTl",'r""';:=""'1"'i',t1"'"r*rri":rr"r"f ii!iii..#!i::"ffi :infbelow the ordinary - hig_h r^rater tbrfWi- elevation of any stateprotected hrater for development p"ipo"!".
Lotus take, a state . e,I-ojlcre_q - basin, has an established OHWelevation of 896.3 feet-(NGVD, fgZif.--i'ire plans submitted r.rith thepermit application indGate tr" p1tp""-.a activities nitl irrcrudef i 1 ling/ s odding berow uris prot-ec-t-i-oir- -.-r.rr"tiorr.
Fi uing of this
;3HiE.#. inconsistent with r'rinne-s&J-a"r.i--ina--riiiiE lrt. rc
Again, filling and soddi-ng -be10w the o,w elevation i.s not alrowed,and permir appr.ication--sa:r: iAi ;ir;"ie be denied. --a.eria!i-pr"ns
*: ;i?l'"' :t?':ni?r"*t" s odainl # l-i "ii i. " u.-i "il i g eli' iEEi i,",, ra
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
SinceI
PHOtrE NO.
cc3 Eotus Lake file ( 1O-6p lCity of Chanhassen f il.e
FEB 0 6 lgSe
C|TXOf Cnamress*
lotuslkpI
AN EOUAL CPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
a
February 2, L9B9
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January 3\, L99O
Stephen Flost
80 Santly Hook Rd
Charhassen, MN 55317
Jo .Arur 01sen, Senior Plarmer
City of Chalhassen
690 Coultier Drive
Char'hassen, !t.I 55317
Dear Ms. 01sen,
O: January 9, A989 I submitted to the City of Chanhassen an application for
a wetland alteration permit. fncluded with the aoolicatlon were:
1. a $25.00 fe62. 26 copies of the slte plan
3. a list of all orooerty owners within 50O feet of ry orogerty. (thls
was obtaineal fron Carver Comty Abstract & Tltle Coryany, Chaska, at e
cost to ne of $100.50)
The Chanhassen Planning Corrrrlsslon uet on {ednesclay, February 15, 1989, where
nv alolication for the wetlend alteratLon pernlt nas consldered by the comission.After rnuch discussion the Pleffrtrg Cortmission voteal to table rny aool-ication, to
be consid.ered again at a future date unon a ileter.ninatlon by the Mirmesota DeDart-
nent of Natural Resources of exactly what extent of f111 neetled to be removed.
from rny shorelLne to satlsfy thelr lequlrenents. The DNR has now nade theirfinal determination, so I request et this tine that the Plafiiing Cormission agaln
consider my original apDllcatlon for e wetlantl alteration pe::Dit which was tabled
at their February \5, 1989 meeting.
In addition to the info:aation submitteal rrith [y aDDlieation for a wetland
alteration per:oit dated January 9, 1989, I sutmit the followlng additional infor-
natlon:
a site survey showlng the area of fl1I to be renoved, as requlred by
the DllR.
the Iotus Lake Restoratlon chart, as orepered by the DNR.
Onee the City of Charhassen lssues ne a wetland alteretlon Delmit, I will be able
to proceed to restore my shoreline to rneet the gultlellnes establlshed by the
City of Chanhassen and the DNR wetland oralinanees.
Sincerely,
1
2
fu"?-,/HEcLTvED ft t
JAN 31 l$]0
gTtI Of CMi{TIASSET
Stephen Frost
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February- 13. 1990
C i t.v- of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Di-ive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Attn: Ms. Jo
Senior
Anne Olsen
Planner a
Re: Application for }Jetland Permit, Reouest for Survey
Dear l{s. 0'l sen:
'vle have not been able to meet your timetable for a surve,y6ur p rcDe rt y. 0ur unde rstand i ng vrith Pat Lynch of the DNRthat the work is to be done in the spring. i$e wil l mai,e
eve ry effo rt to comp ly with the DNR in a timely fashion.
'is
'tn
Hith resDect to the su rvey. the access to a dock and the
'I ayout cf tlre 0Hr'" Iine in relation to the storm sewer/fiiIthe ten foot easement h,ere all to be finalized th.i s Spr.i ng.
i,4y Be.ember 1, 1989 discussion and agreement with pat Lynchto " resto re " !he a rea i nc luded a final rev i ew early thisspring.
I am coi:erned about Hhethe r a st rai ght shoreline betrveen the
0Hlr marlers ac ross app rox i mate I y 175 plus feet of Lotus Lakeshcrel ine is in the best i nterests of an yone. 0ur i ntent.i on
was to prov'i de a mo re natu ra l curving shore by melding the'i ine i nto the fi11ed area in the easement.
i have enc I osed a Ii st of documents from myadvise us which--'if any--of these documentsfor the survey or aDplication.
f i le. P lease
wi lI be req u i red
I hope y-ou will be abie to use
whi ch we supp li ed for the first
You rs truly,
Mr. and M rs. Robert D. Pf ankuch
100 SandY Hook Road
Chanhassen, MN 55317-9580
l ist of p rope rt y owne rslication I ast February.
the
app
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,.-!;-'r--!,
FEB 1619E3
CITY OF CHANHASSEII
enc:
Steve Frost, Dr. CharJ,es Hirt and Pat Lynch
Hetlahd .{lteration Pernit,.\pplication
Descript iorr of proper'ties inlolved:
Lot
*Lct
*0ut
1.,
lot
Block 1. Colonial Grol'e at Lotus Lake. ztrd Addition
.{, "
Junr 1C, 1988
Citf of Chanhassen -lpiilication fol Excavating Peruit
Jurre 29. 1988
Cits of Clianliassen Letter
\otice to the effect: ".,.the citl, stopped xork until
the appropiate permit ras r:rbtairred, four contractol'. ,.
promptl]' comlrlied rith our request to subnit plans and
the needed inlorrnation for issuance of a grading
pernit, "
June 30, 1988
I'l\ DtiR Report of FieId InYestigator
June 30, 1988
Pfankuch/Frost letter to Citl- of Chanhassen
Response to Citt Letter of June 29, 1988
*Proper*,ies not applied for, but directly related to this
appl i cat iorr.
Fi 1e docunierrt s :
June 12, 1987
Itl\ Dept, of rlgriculture Press Release"Purple Lor,,s6511i1'u is a \olious lieed"
0cl oLer 26, 1987
!lirrrresota Dept. of \atural Eesources"Control alrd El'adication of Purr,le Loosestrife"
'ii r\ eliil )et' i , 1 98;
Ci tl of Clianlrassen !,er-ter"Leai Fi oirert l Oriler'"
Generil mailirrg-Infcrnation ou purple loosesttife
corrtrol and eri.rdicatiorr, enclosed II\ Dl(R infornation on
Sanie.
1
2
6
J
1
U August 1, 1988
Chanhassen I i I Iager
Purple Loosestrife: Beautiful Deadls h'eed
Threaterrs Lakes, It'ildlife Habitat
"Lotus Lake in Chanbasserr
according to J a.r- Relrdall,
coord inator.
is .iust surrounded br it,"
11\ DiiR I oosestr i fe
Ausirst 21. 1-q88
Citl ",f alrarrlra:,selr LEtter
J. 0l s-en to Palrl Brrrke. Fisli arrd Irildlif e Ser'.. i.ce
Request commerrt orr lot oxners filling and sodding to
r'enoie/prerent pur'pIe Ioosestrife infestatior.
9
I0. August 2; , 1988
Citr oi Cliarrhssserr Letter'
J. 0Iserr inforniing liess]'s,
P. Burh,:. r'e his review of
Pfankuch,/Frost of letLer to
the i ssues.
1i. Au3ust. 31, 1983
t,S. I;,:1,t. of l-lie Iliterior.
Fislr rn:l ;i ldl if. Set r ice
P. Eurke Letter to Citr of Chanhassen
Ee: Iietlands! purple loosestrife, etc.
Fi lt ing not proper...
12. Nor.enLer 8, 1988
Citl- of Chanhassen Letter
J. Olsen to Pfankuch,/Frost
"...,must proceed rith application for a retlands
alteration pern i t. "
13. Decenber 16, 1988
Carl.er Count!- .{.bstract and Title Co.,Inc.
List of persons...oriners,..liithirr 500 feet....
1{. December' I9. 1988
Itrr oice for .ibstract S100.50
Article sal's further, that loosestrife has no natural
erremies, kiIIs xellands and pushes out wildlife, RODEO
"is real useful...najol dratback...non-selectire... it
kills ererl'thing...next year the a.rea coEes back soLid
Ioosestriie." Ton Hollenhorst, Hennepin Count)- Pal'ks
loost str'ife coordi rratol .
.t .r januarl' 19, 198I
\otice of PubIic Hear i ng
To be held orr February- 1, 1989
L'etland .{lter'ation Pernit
16. Sometime Prior' to Feb. 1, 1989
llotice of Change of aboi.e
to Feb, 15, 1989
-1 ,.Februarl- 2, 1989
ll!( D\R , Pat L1'nch
Letter to Stephen Hansou,
Cits of Char,hassen
Re: Rev i er^ of applicaiion
P-Iann i ng Di rector'
of Case 88013 I\-.\P
18, Fel,',rua t'. 13, 1-o8:-t
)lli l,liFi, lr,ent Loihesm,re
Let t,:r liiti.e of Ii(,1atic]l of llitrrresota Stat,ites
Rr: Lrrat:thor'izc.d FiIl, Lotrts Lake
19. FeLruarl 15, 1989
Char.Ilrassen Planning Conimission .{gerrda
20. Febr'u a r1 15. 1983
fi ty c,f Clialhassen
St.rf f tielor t Case 88-13 iiAP
2i , llirl'ci: 1i, 198-q
i:li D:iF, Pat Llrrclr Lett*r
L-r-r'rch rrites as follor.-up tc photre cell of llarch 1.1,
1989. He feels it is best to table the issue until
later tLis Sprirg.
22. December 0, 1989
ll:i D\Fi Pet L\rlch Letter
L1-nch confirns ancther telephone conlersation, It is
agreed the fitl is to be removed. \o DNR pernits xill be
required; mal use n&Lural rock riprap in accordance rith
brochur"e rhich was enc losed.
23, Decenber 11, 1989
Cit]'' of Chanhassen
J. Olsen Letter
Eequest for surre5 b1* Januar'1'- 8 or Januar5- 22, 1990.(Letter incol'rectl]' states that tlie D\R sai's Pfan}:uch
has agreed to conl,lete restoration bf ]IaS 1, 1990, )
2.1. Januars 25, 19 90
Citi' of Chanlrassen, J. 0Isen Letter
Request information r.'ithin 10 da5s re perBit.
Feb ru a r1''
Pfankuch
13, 1990
letter to J. 0lsen elelosing tliis list,
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(rxno E RATED- NoT TO ScnUr)
*1.
NATURAL GROI,ND
ELE varrorl
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ORDINARY HT
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FILL }lATERTAL TO
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LOTUS LAKE RESTORATI ON
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I I I I I I I II
STATE OFhOhJtrS@TA
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
I{ETRO REGION }IATERS - 12OO I.IARNER ROAD. ST. PAUL. MN 55106
PHo Exo. 296-7523 FILE t{o.
March 5, 1990
Ils. JoAnn 0l sen
City of C hanhas sen
690 Coul ter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Ms. 0'l sen :
STEPHEI.I FROST/BOB PFANKUCH, I.IETLAND ALTERATIO}'I, LOTUS LAKE
(10-6P), CITY OF CHANHASSEN, CARYER COUNTY
The DNR Division of llaters understands the proposed alterations
involve the removal of fill i1le9a1'ly placed below the ordinary high
water elevation of 896.3' ( ]'lGvD, 1929) for Lotus Lake. Since the
Department is requiring restoration of this area, we support issuing
the permit for the wetland alterations proposed by Stephen Frost and
Bob Pfankuch. Fill ing this area was a vio'l ation of }linnesota
Statutes, Chapter 105.42.
Thank you for the opportunity to corment. If you have any
questions, please call me at 296-7523.
Sincerely,
c; l)ffir/
Cei l Strauss
Area Hydrol ogi st
C254:kap
cc: V89-6055 file
RE
titAR 0 6 1Yr3
C]TY OF CHAf'IHASSEJT
*a
1990
AN EOUAL OPPOBTUNITY EMPLOYER
Chalrr,an Conrad called the F,eeting to order at 7:35 p.r,..
I{EMBERS PRESENT: Tir, Erhart, Steve EF,r,ings, Annette Ellson and Ladd Conrad
llEt{BERs ABSENT: Brlan Batz}i, Jir, t{ilderr,uth and Joan Ahrens
STAFF PRESENT:
Planner
Paul Krausa, Dlrector of Planning and Jo Ann Olsen, Senlor
PUBLIC HEARING:
I{ETLAND ALTERATION PERHIT TO FILL IN A PORTION OT A CLASS A WETLIND LOCATED
ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED AT 7SS7 CHEYENNE TRAIL, CHARLES HIRT,
LOTUS LAKE BETTERMENT ASSOCIATION.
Public Present:
NaFre
A1 & Carol Ander son
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Chairr',an Conrad called the prrblic
hearing to order.
Al Anderson: Is this a hearing that lrourre proposing, I rrant to rrnderstand
this better. The Clty or the council or this cor'rt,l ttee is proposing that
the onl!, ehanges to be made out there is the enlargetr,ent of the restorationof this area to rr,arshLand. Thatia the proposal?
conrad: The proposal is to restore lt back to what lt originally rras,
lreah. And then to allow a boardwalk through that that glves access to thedock. Anl, other cotr'Frents?
Erhart r.oved, Er'trrings seconded
favor and tbe F,otlon carrled.'
Ethart: Do lrou have any idea
owners, dlld the:r xork togetherit was?
to clo6e the publlc hearing. AII voted in
The publlc hearing was cLosed.
in terr.s of, ln the flr6t place, the 3 lotin fllling thls thlng ln? Is that the uay
Olsen: I knoi, that the 2 lot owners dld and it appearedl that the outlot,
the hofi,eownerrs assoclation also when it was happenlng dld lt along with
that. Iitr, not exactly sure if they dld lt all together. rt becarre
apparent that that hadt also been fllled.
Erharts So therera 2 hor'es. On the beachlot, rhat wrs lt? If that uas a
rharsh, hos dld they uae it as a beaclrlot area?
olsen: Hor the!, had access to the dock? t t1
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR I{EETING
FEBRUARy 2L, L99g
Planning Corr,r, i ss ion
February 2L, L99g -
Hee ting
Page 2
Erharts The dock t,as out through the cattails so how did thel' get outthrough it? VIas there a boardwalk?
Olsen: Thele must have
happenedl before that. . .
been sor',e sort of dock. Again, what exactllt
Erharts Vrere the other 2 docksget out to those docks?
there before thel, built also? How did the\,*
Olsen: It ras after the fact Ehen I went out there. I know inthose aerlals it does show the one dock. I guess I ahould have
down but lt looks like on the aerial :rorr can see that it looksthis lot that had a dock out. It didlnrt look like there were 2here. That was an aerial fror. earllr 80rs.
Erhart: Is the applicant here?
O13en: I don't see thetrr. I don't Bee the other tso either.
Erbart: Are you a nelghbor?
lI Andersons I{e live on the other slde of tlre...
Carol lnderson: Our lot ls directly opposite, acrosa the creek.
Erhart: Were the docks there before they filledt?
A1 Anderson: Not that wetre aware of.
Carol lnderson! Not that uerre aware of.
one of
brought. . .Iike it wasother docks
Erhart: So ltrs conceiveablethe fill.that the docks rere lnstal.l.ed after thev did
conrad: This particurar one, the ho['eowner6 of this particurar lot thatre're Looking at has al.ways hatl a dock but lt was not a very ir,proved pieceof land and I think the!, sere literal.ly tagging onto tbe other owners,hor,eormers rho were trying to " lrr,provei thelr property andt they went along -Dlth the construction that, the hon,eowners assoclition rent ar6ng with th6construction but in the past, ln ny recollection 18 the:, alrays had alittle back there but it uas not a very najor dock rhatioever.
Erbart! Tbe dock actually courd have gone up to the ordinary high waterna.rk and probably was rebrrilt after...
Conrads That would Jre a good gueaa, !re6.
Olsen: The photos show, agaln you can see1s the recreational beachlot, the furthestthls is the lot right next to lt and tt dtiat
have like planks out to it.
that those two did have. This
one over. Behind the...and thengo up through so yeah, they dld
Planning Cor,n,lssion Ueeting
Eebruar:, 2L, L99g - Page 3
Erhart: Yeah.
rr,oved ln there?
Do :7ou have any ldea ln terfts of volur,e hor tr,uch dirt they
O1sen: No I don I t.
Erhart: Do ltou know nho the contractor uas who r,oved the dirt?
I donrt knoe theOlsen: Itrs on the applicatlon. AII
anst ers to.these questions,
ELl.son: what ate ]'ou getting at?
Erhart: I't', just trying to get a feel for this. Didl thel, haul it in with
trucks?
Olsen: Oh yeah. I F,ean there was a substantial ar,ount of fill.
Erhart: Do you have any idea how rrran:t truckloads?
Olsen: we could figure that out. Harland Johnson fror, Chaska uas the
contractor.
Erhart: Do you think hers been aroundt?
Olsen: I would think that they sould have known.
Erhart: Yeah. Hautlng dirt onto a lakeshore just lsnrt, that'8 just...
Conrad: And to jurtp onto TimrE corr,r-,enta, the IaEt tir,e we talked about
this we were talking about rhat does Chanhassen do to contractors sho
theoretically know what the ordinances lre but lgnore ther. In this case,
and I knot itra :7our turn to talk Tirt but what do ve do? Do se JuBt aa:,this contractorra welcone back to chanhassen? Do se have a ray of
penalizing the contiactor?
xrauss: we donrt have any licensing of contractora that would allot us to
penallze then". All ee can do lE uatch ther, more closel!, in the future.
Olsen: Unless the:, get perrr,ite, re donrt even knos theyire there.
conrad: Yeah, but re really dontt have ! ea:' to reatrlct contractors?
Erhart: well lrou could. You couldl take, xe do now have a Pena1t:, clause
ln our retlanals fi 1I lng.
Xrauss: weII who you 90 after 13 the ProPerty onrer.
Erhart: we could include the contractor ln our ordlnance too. I tell you,
lf one of then, got fined, belleve r,e aII the rest of then would knos.
That's just an idea.
conrad: Norn,alIy the contractor aeeka the Perr.lt.
Planning
Febr ua r:,
Corr,rr,ission
2L, L99g -
Meeting
Page 4
just the application fee is doubled and you can also go
Olsen: Right.
Krauss: Well typically cono,trnities l j.cense traders people. PluF,bers,electriclans. Contractors? I havenrt heard of cor,$,uni ties that extendedthat to grading contractors but itrs not irrprobable that you could do so.
Erharts I t,as just thinking that you could write, correct the but se
changed the ordinance recentllr to actuall!, penalize sotr,eone nho filIsretlands r lght?
Olsen: That I s
fur ther .
Krauss: The!, can t t.
Olsen: They can i t.
Erhart: Oka1z. Irve got one last
that I a baslcall:, consistent with
circumstances?
OIsen: Correct.
Erhart: On nur',ber {, do re have
rerrove Purple loosestr l fe?
questlon then. AlJ.owlng the boardsalk,rhat se I d do to anybod:r ln the sarr,e
anything now that requlres people to
Olsen: Itrs a noxlous weeal andresponsibilit:r to renove ther..
agaln State ).aw really, ltt6 :rour
Erhart: If you could soF,ehow slap hands of contractors too. Itrs just anidea. What irerre saying here, what the DNR recoFitt,enaled was tbey donrt have-to take out al} the volutre of r,aterial that rras put in.
Olsen: The:' just go the ordinary h19h water rtrark.
Olsenl well our recor,F.endati on re6tores ttrore retland. And ltrs less
nranicured lawn, fertilizer.
Xrauss: The DNR is regulated, retl ghat the:'.re allorred to deal sith isregulated b:, state law and they can onl!, deal with lt to the OHW. Thatdoesnrt n.ean the:t necessarily rould oppose our going further.
Erhart: And so they wouldn I t even go be!,onit recor,rr.ending that siRrpt!,because.
Erhart: Yeah. And what rerre recoFrtiending la to take it all out. Ottrerthan is there an!r, other than pure academlcs that the:r shouldnrt have doneit, therefore the:' sholrld take it all out, is there any substltute reason -
shy the!, should be allowed to leave some in? Is that in,provlng or havingno affect by Leaving it? In other words, whatrs the difference between,other than philosophical, rhatrs the difference betseen the DNR.6
recotr'rr,enda tion and our recoFfi'endat ion?
Plannln
Febr uar
gCyz or',n,i ss i on Meetingl, L99g - eage 5
Erhart: The weeil inspector is suppose to, who I think was Torr, Hap.ilton.
Olsen: He used to be. I think ltrs Scott Harr now isntt lt? The probleF,is that there's real no cure lrorr know to rerrrove lt but this stuff wilL be
cotr.lng back young and thatrs when you get it.
Erhart: The reason I ask, do we really rant to lnclude this lterr { in hereif lt's alreatl:, another law? I thlnk it just acts, not that I'nr pleasedlslth rrtrat tttese people did bl, any rr'eans but I thlnk it puts us, the City alittle bit in the posltion of almost klnd of kicklng dirt at therr and Ithink if thatrs alread:l a law, that the:, have to rer,ove lt rhich cannot beenforced, I alrr,ost wonder if we shouLdn't just Btlck to the flrst 3 polnts
and leave it at tbat so ItIl pass it onto lrou Steve with thoEe coFrFrents.
Er,rtings: I don't reall:t have r,uch on thls. I guess I don i t, it seerr,s thatthe appllcants have alread:, agreed that the:"re going to do uhat the DNR
has said the:, have to do so irerre reaLl]' talking about an adalitlonal 9 feethere and I guess I was a little bit torn between doing sonethlng that wasjust purel!, punltive for the eake of punist r'ent and the fact that, which Idonrt sant to do and on the other hand being faced with this situation over
and over again. We see this Eo often and lf re don't take a gtandl I think
rrhereb:r we will essentially alsays lrr,pose this t:'pe of penalty or ourretlands ordinance is going to be a jote because itrs golng to put a
pr err,l ur', on ignoring the regulations andl it can allow anlrbody uho just goes
ahead on their orn to get whatever the:' rant so I guess I don't thlnk we
have any choice but to have ther, rerr,ove lt. whether ltrs 36 or 45 feet, Idon't know nhat the right ar',ount is but I go along sith the staff
recoF.'rr'endati on here. The onl:t question I have J.s, I'n, wonderlng t,hat woul,d
happen, rrhat happens to the fill thatts rer,oveil? Do re have to be
concerned aborrt what theyrre going to do rrith that?
olsen: yeah.
setland.
It has to be rer,oved. It can't be .dur,ped on the other
Etrtlngs: I'r. just scared that sor.ething like that wl1l happen.
olsen: Yeah, I $as golng to put that in. That ee Ehould probabl!, r,ake.
Et'r.ings: Does lt have to be rertoved f rorr, the 6lte or can they durr.p lt on
the higher portlons of thls ground lf they sant to shere lt r11l all uash
back down?
Oleen: The fact that ltrs got purple .loosestrlfe ln lt r,eans that again
you can see that ltra growing. There are certaln State regulatlons of saysthat :rou have to rerrrove that fill and shere :tou can take lt.
Er.utlngs: Right. There are [hat regulatlons? state regulatlons?
Olsen: Therets recoF,n,enilat I ons of certain things that you cantt just duttip
it rlght next to irhere yourre taklng lt out becauae it sltl Jrrst, llke you
sa:, hrash back in and the purple loosestrife wiII go back ln. we donit
al}ow fllling. To reFove flll and then place that rlthln another area of a
rretlands.
Planning Corlr,iss ion lreet ing
Februar:t 2L, l99g - Page 5
Eto,ings: I just Eee that as a shortcorr,ing ln the recorr,r,endat lons. I thinlre shoulal have a recoF'rrrendat lon that refi,oved fitL or fill that ls rer'.oved.Or the:7tll subrrrit a plan as to where the flll will be deposited to the Citlr-before ren,oving any and it wll.l be approved by the City. Or to be approveiby the Cit!' staff. Sor,ething like that.
Erhart! Ieah, includlng eroslon control.
Err'rr.in96: Theyrre doing things Like that. (init of a grading. woutd !,oucall it a grading plan?
Olaen: feah, technically theytll have to get another grading plan.
Etrtings: so a grading plan. Erosion control and rhere the spoils will be-deposited. That's aII I have.
Conraal: Good Steve. Annette?
Ellson: - r agree irith the staff to extend it to the entire area veraus justthe ordinarl' hlgh nater r,ark. r like the ldea of adding rhat steve did-fox-a nur,ber 5. rt rould just be our luck that we would have tbeI. just put ithlgher up on the sarr,e soil so if re go to arl the trouble to tell th&',shich mantral, how to retr,ove Loosestrife ls, the least ue can do ie refertherr to the state recoMr'endatlon or perr',it procesa or hor, to make sure the!-dispose of fill with purple loose8trlfe ln lt properly as well. But Iagree rith staff i s recoF,$lendation.
conrad: There is not a date ln our r,otion as to when tt has to be rerrovedby.
Olsen: Well the DNRra date was Ma:, lst. We r,lght as rell just have theaalre date.
Erhart: we canrt do that because they cannot r,ove egulpr,ent untir thelirtits are off the roads.
Ellson: The shat?
Erhart: ontir the road restrlctlons, if theyrre golng to haul equiprrrent inwhlch the:'rre golng to have to do here.
Conraft: Yeah, l{a1r 1at aeerhs a little blt.
Erhart: - Usually that goes off Hal, 15th. Ife have to glve then 3, dalrs.June 15th rould glve thetrr 3g dalrs.
Conradl: l{hat date?
Erbart: June 15th would give therr, generally 3S dalrs. Sor,etir,es thosellnits cor',e off earller dependlng on the welther. Halr l5th usually.
Planning Cono,ission Heeting
Februar!, 2L, !999 - Page 7
Conrad: By the sa:i, I think thatrs a real good staff report. I reallyliked how it was wordetl. t{:, onl!, other conrr,ent sould be xhen se restorethls Jo Ann, it simply rr€Ens trttroV ing so as we re&ove, does that rr,ean wer IIhave 35 feet of t ater taking the pLace, dependlng on water level. and what
have you, and then $eill have, or rhatever the nur,ber is and 9 feet abovethe rrater level which will be barren at thls tlne. So uhat does lt lookllke? What ne have done, rre havent t restored. We have rerroved.
olsen: Right. Therers that crosa Eectlon eith the DNR that rerll stlllgive it that. It wonrt just be. it sill have 8or.e grade to it and tben ituill have the stone uall or shatever. I canrt re&eFrber what theSz referredto lt as. You can, what rre've done before with others ls to work sith
ther,, with the DNR and the Fish and wildtlife to come up rith sor,eplantings. If you want ther, to go that far, re can do that.
Conrad: I just donrt sant it to look ugly or I dontt xant to restrict it
to being nothing.
Olsen: It qrill coFe back prett!, quick. I F,ean the!, do return to their
natural state.
Conrad: so the cattails wlll cor,e back?
Olaens I've been told, yeah. Thatrs rhat the!, alea:rs.
Conraat: The!, probably wt11 in that area.
Erhart: In here they 1111.
Conrad: Yeah. okay. I thlnk ue should have a daia restoreal and I like the cottfi.ents on the plan th
erosion control procedures. I think that r,akes a
onl:t coFrrrent. Is there a rrrotion?
te
at
1o
in there b}r which thisis subrr.l tted and aomet of aense. Thatrs ny
Ero,ings: I'1I love the Planning CorT'rrri ss ion recoFrnr€nd aPProval, of Wetland
Alteratlon Pern"it 189-1 with the follosing condltlons. Nur,ber L would be
as it ls in the staff report with the addlition in the firat Bentence that
the work wil!. be done by June 15, 1,999. Condtltlons 2r 3 and 4 rill stay as
the]' are and there wlll be a fiftb condition added sa:,1n9 that the
applicant, that prlor to dolng any rork, the applicant shall subrt.lt gradling
and eroslon control plans anil a PIan as to the disposal of dePosit of the
soil thatrs removed. Herll subr,lt a plan to be approved b:, Cit:, staff.
Erhart: Ir1I aecond it.
Enrr,ings l,oved I Erhart seconded that the Plannlng CoF,rr,ission r€conrtrr€nd
approval of Wetland Alteratlon Pera.it 189-1 xtth the fo11owln9 conditions:
1. The applicant shall rerrrove 25r x tl5r x
ProPert:' line adjacent to Lotus Lake a
ftIl will be rerr,oved by June 15, 1999
provided b:t the DNR.
fllI :',easurlng fror, the
on the flnal PIat. Thee typlcal croas sectlon
wn
3grs aho
uEing
of
th
Planning Corr,rr,i ss i on
February 2L, L99g -
2. The applicant sha 11
wetland to provide
3 The area of rerr,ovedstate.
ueeting
Page 8
be perr.ltted one boardwalk through the restoredto the d ock.acces s
flr1
4 An:' purple
recor,F,ended
and Control
shall be allowed to restore to a natural
loosestrife that retrrrns shall be iruneil iately rerrroved asblt the Flsh andl Wildllfe Servlce F,anual , ,Spread, Irr,pactof PurpIe Loosestrife ln North Arqerica Wetlandsn.
ny work being done on tbe site, the applic.nt shall Eubr.,ittaff approval. a grading and eroalon control plan.
5. Prior tfor Cit oa
!rs
All voted in favor and the Frotion carried.
JOINT I,IEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL TO INFORIIALLY DISCUSS THE LAND USE PLAN
CHAPTER OE THE COI.IPREHENSIVE PLAN.
Conrad: Did you have the Cit:/ Council saiting outside?
Nrauss: Unfortunatel:, not.
Ell.son: The:' were expecting us to 90 a littl.e late?
Krauss: I donrt know. I rras contacted b:i Bill Boyt andtold the!, could not rrake it but I think thls r,lght faltuhat if re gave a rt,eeting and nobody carvre.
Conrad: You t ould thlnk the:r rouLd be here by now.
Tor', Wor ktr,an andinto the realr, of
f,rauss: Yeah, I thlnk thatrs the case. yllthout their presence,that takes a big chunk out of ehat re were golng to tacile tonighare sor,e other things, se tr,lght as welt uee the tlr,e effectively.aor'e otlter things we can touch base on. The lack of presence oiCouncilrs a llttle dlecouraglng. I thlnk that thelr input at thlls real vital and possibly if Hoses wonrt cor,e to the r.-ountain wether,. Everyboal:r,s been havlng gome exceedingly tong meetlngs latnalt posslbl]' thatts the result of lt. We had hoped-to glve-1zou,addltion to the rr,aterlal that re-gave !rou, ue had hoped to give'ygoals and pollcy section. We hadl drafted it up anat put it into oProcessor. Unfortunatel:, lt ate lt. Our rrord procesaor la o1d abelng xeplaced and hopefulllz xe can replace lt quicker nor.
Err,rr.lngs: That gives u6 another goal for the Clty.
obviousl!,t. There
Therera -thes juncture
can 90 to-
anat
tlre
sord
nd itia
elyin
ou
ur
Nrauss: Werve got ther., we just donrt know hoi, to use therr !ret...the plan _but we had to 9o to some extrerne nethoda to do it ant! ship li out toanother firtr, to rescue the r',agnetic tape. we have it back nos and we.resorking on it. since the last tin,e we &et on the cor,prehensive pran weavedone a nurr,ber of things. Hark and r have been workin! extenslveiy and loAnn has been norklng rrith us too, to actuall:r give you the ptan eler.,ents
EHINHISSEN
P.C. DATE! llarch 21, 1990
C.C. DATE: April 9, 1990
CASE NO: 90-1 wAP
Prepared by: olsen/v
STAFF REPORT
Fz
()
=(LL
E
td
tsa
wetland Alteration to Class A and Class B wetlands
Lake Drive East - 900 Feet East of Dakota,/Lake Drive
East intersection
PROPOSAI:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT: City of t:hanhassen
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSIIY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:N-
s-
E-
w-
Ba/IOP i vacant
RSF, Chanhassen Estates
IOPi Dataserv
BEi McDonald I s
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CEARAC.:
2OOO LAND USE PI,AN:
CITY OF
BH and IOP
Lake Drive East wAP
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGUIATIONS
1
Section 2O-42L. requires a iretland alteration pernit for anydigging, dredging or filling of a Class A or B wetland.
Section 20-437 allows a ninimum anount of filling of a wetland withthe following considerations:
Any filling sha1l not cause total natural flood storagecapacity of the wetland to fall belol, or fall below furtherthe projected volune of runoff fron the watershed generated bya 5.9rr rainfall in 24 hours. Since the total anount oi
lilli"S which. can be pernitted is linited apportionnent offill- opportunities for other properties abutting the wetlandshal1 be considered.
A1V fillinV shall not cause totaL nutrient stripping capacityof the wetland to be dininished to an exlLnt- thit i-sdetrinental to any area river, Iake or streaD.
Only fill free of chenical pollutants and organic waste nay beused.
4. Filling_shaLl be carried out so as to nininize the irnpact onvegetation.
5. Fi11in9 the rretland areas will lot be pernitted duringwaterfolrl breeding or fish spar*ning seas6n unless it i;deternined by the city that the netland is not used forwaterfowl breeding or fish spawning.
ANALYSIS
The_ city is proposing to improve r,ake Drive East and existingutilities fron the intersection of Dakota Avenue to 9oo feet to theeqst (#1). As a result of these improveroents there ni]l be souealterations to existing rretlands.
There are two wetland areas that uirr be affected by theimprovenents to rake Drive East. The wetlands are showrr 6n theplans as Area A-west and Area B-East. Area A-I{est has a total ofL-4,375_ sguare feet. The rretrand is rocated iust west- or trreMcDonaldrs site. The wetland contains T)rpe II, III and VIuetlands- - The proposed improvements wilr renove 2,6'25 square feetof wetland in Area A-west. Both Type rr and rvpe vr weir'inas wirrbe impacted in the Area A-west wliland. ty-pi rr is i cfass erretland and Tlzpe vr is a class A wetrand. rrre ienaining ieilr th.wetland wilL not be inpacted.
2
3
Lake Drive East wAP
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 3
The Area B-East wetland has a total of 19ro00 square feet. The
Area B-East wetland contains Type If, III, v, Vf and vII rretlands.
Again, TtT)e If wetland is a Class B and Tltpes III through VIII are
class A uetlands. There is an existing drainage ditch through the
Area B-East wetland which will be replaced with a storn selrer andthe southern portion of the uetland will be inpacted by the
inprovenents to Lake Drive East. The total 19,000 square feet of
the Area B-East wetland uilt be inpacted by the roadrray and utility
improvenents to Lake Drive East. The installation of the storn
sewer will renove the surface ditch and renove the source of
surface uater for the Area B-East wetland.
A total of 20,625 square feet (.47 acres) of wetl.and will be
renoved as a result of the inprovenents to Lake Drive East. In the
past when the city has had to remove wetlands as a result of public
inproveroents, the City has provided replacement of the wetlands.
For exanple, when Lake Drive East near the Rosenount site nas
irnproved, it renoved portions of a Class B wetland. fhe City
replaced that wetland vith the ponding area near Lake susan Park
and also off-site where a future ponding area wiLl be developed on
the Eckankar property as part of the $lest 78th Street DetachnentProgran. The subject site does not have any area on site for
replacement of the wetland area.
Staff has been keeping a tabulation of wetland replacement to use
as a nitigation bank for future city proj ects that may iupact
vetlands. The ponding area that is being developed on the Eckankar
site and is being designed to Fish and Wildlife wetland Standards
and has an excess of .9 acres of uet]and over what uas needed to
replace the Lake Drive East wetland near the Rosemount site (*2).
Therefore, staff is reconnending that the excess of .9 acres of
wetland on the Eckankar property be used as rnitigation for the
current Lake Drive East improvenents east of Dakota Avenue. Since
some of the rretland that is being removed as part of this project
has class A gua).ities including I)rpe vI and vII which are the
wooded wetland areas, staff nill be requiring a portion of the
wetland area on the Eckankar property to be designed to take on thequalities of a shrub and wooded wetland. Staff feels that the
uetland that will be provided on the Eckankar site, adequately
replaces the rretlands being removed as Part of the Lake Drive East
improvements. NoTE: Using the rretland site on the Eckankarproperty as roitlgation for this proJect will renove aPproxinately
* acre from our .9 acre surptus in the retland nitigation bank.
Lake Drive East wAP
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 4
RECOM},IENDATION
ATTACHI,fENTS
1.
Staff reconmends approval of the Wetland Alteration perrnit #90-1 asshosn on plans dated Uarch 12, 1990, uith the fotlowing conditions:
1. The type of wetlands that are being removed as part of theLake Drive East inprovenents including TIT)es II, III, V, vIand vII will be provided in an equal anount at the iretlandsite on the Eckankar property whictr is being developed as partof the West 78th Street Detachment progran.
2. IlT)e III erosion control shall be provided to protectunaltered rretland areas.
2
3
L€tter to Paul Burke dated Uarch G,L€tter fron OSt{ dated Febru ary 2L,Site ptan dated lilarch 14, 1990.
1990.
1990.
I
T
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
t
I
I
I
t
I
I
t
ffigsmnqqu
Thc hcvl Pond deslg
wetland. Howeve r,
area. A loss of 1
the placement of f
that vould recel ve
col lectlon pl pes.
tltl^llri lalattl l!rwlrr iilll l!l
tl tl ll lEaal.rl^ lalt larltlhaila/l
{rb
PLA}{I NG
TMNSP(NIAIIO'{
€T{GINE€RDTG
LnBAr{ ()CSI(}N
At{.lltralf il lla rlr(tl lat,lrsl il!'lll' glfj lixlt'lr 'l: tlrt.'
ttlllll ,rMl; larrla rll I (:i{laarl llr., rl r-ir"ll
ttt|a a lirr(I^rtr lilre:l:lrllal ,lllarl lattr,l
!ev{ rc.rHFtslfa sou^nE ,oo llorc stllEEl tqJl]l rDrftAFOls rr{tfSOU 55a15 Prot.r ceonNrto r^r' atzdrstlrt
l,larch 6, 1990
ilr. Paul Burke
U.S. Ftsh and tltldllfe Servlce
400 Stbley
St. Paul , HN 55101
oear Pau I
I am wrltlng to you regardlng the off-slte mltlgatlon.artl l9l !It..!lke Drlve
orotect ln chanhassen. tttts-project was approvea uy ttre cgrps !lt llay.of 1989
?Hition*iiiu-iermit Ag-ZOAtU-Zi).- As you recall, much of the_uetland.lmpact
ii,ipiii]-6i-r.iJ ortre was mtti6ated o-n-slte,-leavtng only_0.5 acres that needed
i6'U. ior-p.ntated for off-slte] The Clty offered to create a 'two-pond' systen
in ttre-noiif'rist quadrant of Htghway 5 and CSAH 17, as 3hown ln Flgure 1A. The
ilaiin 6itinA thti letter ls to-desirlbe to you the proposed change ln the loca-
tton of Pond A. See Flgure 18.
Tlre clty has run lnto some problems Ulth the.landowner of llltlgatlon Area ,2.
tiii piii.iii-tanaowner feels'that the area orlglnally proposed-for Pond A repre-
iont! i-piiru-upiinO locatton for buslness development.gtvln !l: proxlm'lty to
if,ii-inteiiiciro'n oi ttlghway 5 and CSAH 17. tn negotlatlons wlth-the landoY'ner'
iiii il.Jo*nii traa totO-tne-Ctty that tf they can keep thls parcel they ulll
idipiiiiu-"ith ihe Ctty on othir Clty pro1e-cts proposed tn-thls area. ,However.ii-'irrli-i.. rorced to ieii ittrrougn_iohaetnattoh bi the Ctty), negotlatlons ulll
Uecomimuctr more dlfftcuit ioi tfrE Clty on atl othar proJects proposed for thls
area.
Therefore, ln an atternpt to Evold any unnecessary confllct3.tlth the landowner'
i'ni CitV iroposes to mbve ponO A to ine locatlon shown ln Flgure 2A. Flgure 28
iiiori'i-ne'siine plan l,ith the proposed locatlon of a future frontage road through
iii;-;r;;; -ionO'n coutd theor'etltally be moved north of the orlglnal slte, 0n
,pionir-ai:atenl to CSaf 17; horever,-the steep grades ln.thls.area-rould lmpgse
i'f,ignei iost for excavatl6n than condemnatlon of the orlglnal parcel uould
id;;;: in-ioOitton, pond A could not be located vest of the exlstlng Yetland
ie;arra ttri tntenaeO-purpose of the tyo-pond systeo was to treat storm Yater
runoff from the east before lt enters the retland.
n would requlre some excavatlon and fllllng of thc exlstlng-tiie-net oaln ln wetland area ulll outwelgh the loss ln thls
.ia'-aiiis-Uould occur ln the exl3tlng Yetland a3 a result of
iit tor the berm or dlke and the excavatlon of a pondlng area
storm water runoff through an extenslon of storm rater
n-mftfgatton area of 2.74 acres Yould be created adJacent t0
MINNEAPOLIS DENVIN PI OEMX rtrcsoll ST. PETENSBURG
- --t- -
:
I
I
of the exlsHng re and. The slzeh the 1.34 acres lost to pond A, anomlsed as.part of the Lake Drlvi pr
some of the addiHonal 0.9 acres'onk for rnother Clty proJect.
Ilc qtty rrould appreclate a prompt response from you on the feaslblllty of thlsne|, desrsn. r have drscusseh tnis vit[-iiiin'iilt;r of th;-c;ipi,-ini-irsresponse was that rf the nev-desrgn achreves the sane effect ai [hi origrnatdesrgn he doesn't see a probrem,iir,-i[.-'i6uirlr. rri ,inti-to sil-aiy'pransbefore ne so ahead wrth inyrhrns anJ ,iura"iiii'ui to aiiiusi-ri-uriii'you.
Thank you for taklng the Hme to revleu thls matter.
Sl ncerely,'
Bnlr, INc.
flr. Paul Burke
llarch 6, 1990
Page 2
the west edge
sates for botmltlgatlon pr
the Clty thatmltlgatlon ba
Beth Kunkelt{lldllfe Btologtst
8l(/lm
Attachmentscc: Vern Relter, COE
Gary Ehret, BRt{
Jon Horn. BRll
. thls_mltlgatlon area c@en-
he 0.5 acres of off-sltect. lt ls the lntenHon.ofItlgatlon could be used .s a
ofdt
oJe
fm
! .! 'r..,
%z,z(
t... ta; .
OrI
sd|€ht
lbvaron&
Asixiates, fE
2021 frasl Hennepin Avenuc
Minneapolis, t'lN 55413
6r2-33r,8660
FAX 33r-3806 Engrnecrs
Surveyors
Plannels
February 21, 1990
lls . JoAnn 0l sen
Senior Pl anner
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Dri ve
Chanhassen, l'lN 55317
RE: Lake Drive East, tletland Impact
OSH Comm. No. 4358
AREA A - ltEsT
Dear l,ls . 0l sen :
The city of chanhassen is proposing to improve Lake Drive East from its point
of inteisection with Dakota Avinue tb a point 900 feet east of this intersection.
ixisting util.ities in the area will allo be improved, an_d a I imited _amount of
wetland-alteration will result from these improvements. This 'letter is written
in support of a wetland alteration permit. The permit application is attached.
The existing land use in the vicinity -is vacant and is zoned for
commerc i al / i idustri al uses. All of the vacant land is surrounded by established
devel opment.
tmproved Lake Drive East will cross three different typ_e s of landscape and will
imiact wetland, as well as upland grass areas and uoodland.
A site visit has been made and the wetland areas have been identified and located
as a result of an on-site investigation. There are tl,o primary areas-of upland
wetland that xill be impacted. Th-ese areas have been staked in the field' mapped
and depicted as Area A - tlest and Area B - East on exhibit l. Information on
the weit and east wet'land is provided be1ow.
A total of 14,375 square feet of wetland is.present in the Area A - l,lest. There
are three difierentiypes of wetland'located here inc'luding Typ-e 2 - inland fresh
meadow, Type 3 - iriiand shallow fresh marshes, -and ]JP! 6 -- shrub.swamp'
Attachrieni A provides a description of all types of wetland referenced in this
'I etter.
2,625 square feet of wetland in the Area A
improvement to Lake Drive East. The types
summarized in the following table.
- l{est would be irnpacted bY the
and amount of wetland imPacted is
I'let I and Area
Iype 2
Type 6
llet I and Area
lJet l and Area
Iype 2
Type 3
Type 5
Types
ted
ted
ted
mpacted
Impac
Impac
Impac
Not I
Im
Im
Im
Im
6&
square
squ are
sQu aret2
975
650
,750
feet
feet
feet
Total tletland Area 14,750 square feet
887 of the wetland, 12,750 square feet, in the Area A - llest wi'l'l not be impacted
by thi s road construction.
AREA B - EAST
A total of 19,000 square feet of wetland exists in Area B - East. There are avariety of wetland types scattered throughout this area and the types change
according to elevation and the location of 1ow pockets or the ditch. Therefori,it is very difficult to determine the exact amount of wetland area according to
type in Area B - East. There are five different wetland types that exist hire;
Type 2 - fresh meadow, Type 3 - shallow fresh marsh, Type 5 - open water, and
a_combination of-Types 6 and 7 - shrub and wooded swamps. In ord-er to quantify
the areas of wetland in Area B - East, it is possible to discuss the percentagi
of wetland types based on site observation. This information is sunmarized inthe table bel ow.
AREA B - EAST
pacted
pacted l0%
pacted 7Yo
pacted 3%
7 Impacted 80%
1,900 square feet
I,330 square feet
570 square feet
15.200 souare feet
Total lletland Area 19,000 square feet
A11 the wetland jn Area B - East wi ll be impacted by the improvement of the
roadway and utilities. It should also be not,ed that-with the construction ofthe storm lrater improvements that the ditch will be removed and the source ofsurface water for Area B - East will be eliminated.
I{()()DLAI{D
There is a third area of woodland between Area A - uest and Area B - East. gased
on the site visit and an analysis of observed vegetation types, it was deterrninedthat this is not a netland. - Upland varieties,-primarily young oak trees, wereobserved and this provides eviitence that it ii irot yeilini.
COTIPEN SATION
20'625 square feet, .47 acres, of wetland w'i lI be lost to the improvement of LakeDrive East and utilities. . compensation measures can be taken to replace thiswetland, and based on the irobable future of development on ihe site,
compensation will need to occur elsewhere within the ciiy. considering the'I imited amount of area to be restored, it is suggested thit onty on! ti"pe of
AREA A - TeSt
6and7-
fherefore,
bene fi t .
shrub and wooded sramps,
expanding one of these
provide the most advantage to rrildlife.types of wetland would provide the most
Permit requirements of other agencies, such as the corp of Engineers, shou'ld bereviewed prior to constructi on.
It is planned that the bid-date for this project will be April G, 1990. please
advise-us of-any a.dditional work that will be reguired to'keep t,his project onschedule. If you have any questions, please call'pete llillenbring at'379-6399.
Si ncerely,
ORR- SCHELEI{-HAYERON
& ASSoCIATES, INC../,
l)1,,\*o1 p1 r.t' ,.\. \, r,,\ ,. ..
Laurie HcRost i e
Landscape Arch i tect
Peter R. l{illenbring, P. E.
Hanager, l,later Resources Department
cc:
Encl osures
/1nt
Gary llarren
Bud 0smundson
Pete l{illenbring
flpe.2 - Fresh lleadow. The. soil us-ua11y is without standing water during mostof the growing season but is raterlogged within at least i few inches 6'f itssurface. Vegetation includes grasses, sedges, rushes, and various broad-'leavedplants. Ileadows may fill- shal.l o-w- Iake basins, sloughs, or farmland depressions,or these meadows may border shallow marshes on the lakeward side. Hay is oftencut from such wetland areas.
ATTACHI.IEi{T A
HFTLAND DESCRIPTION
The soil is usually waterlogged durin g the growi ngwith as much as 6 inches or more of water.
Tvoe 3 - Shallow Fresh llarsh.
season; often it is covered
e6-ub Sw m
and is often coveredalder, willow, and do
and on f1 oodpl a i ns .
Vegetation incl-udes grasses, bulrush, spikerush, and various other marsh plants
such as cattail, arrowhead, pickerelweed, and smartweed. These marshes mayneariy fill shallow lake basins or sloughs, or they may border deep marshes o-nthe landward side. They are also common as seep aieas-on irrigatei 1ands.
Tvpe 5 - Open l{ater. shal low ponds and reservoirs are included in this we andtype. llater is usually less than l0-feet deep and is fringed by a border ofemergent vegetation such as cattail and bulrush. Submelgenf or floatingvegetation (mainly at water_ -d-ept-hs of less than 6 feet) ii'cludes pondweed]wildce)ery, coontail, watermilfd,il and waterli ly.
The. soi l is usua)ly wateriogged during the growing season,with as nuch as 5 inches of water. Vegefation-includesgwood. Shrub swamps usually occur along sluggish streams
Tvoe 7 -.I{ooded swamo. The soil is water'logged to rith'in a few inches of itssurtace during the growing season, and is often covered with as nuch as I foot
9! 11!:.. .l'looded sl.amps occur. mo_st1y-a1ong sluggish streams, on floodplains,
9l I11t uplands, and.in very shallow lake basins. In l.linnesota, tree ipecieiinclude tamarack, white cedar, black spruce, balsam fir, red naple, and'blackash.
Class:Type:
location: Lakeside _ SEreanslde _ Upland _
liatershed Di strlct:Riley-Purgatory Creek llaters hed
lrea of Open Water!
Drainage Plows To: Rice Lake Marsh
Vegetation Types !
Soil Types:
2. DESCRIPTION OF PROPOSED ALTERATION:
Fi 'II nf 4 7 acres of wetl nd area.
3
Irnprove Lake Drive East and local utilities.
I APPLICABLE WETLAND ORDINANCE SECTIoN: Sec. 20.437
5 A DISCOSS TEE I}IPACTS ON TBE PROPOSED DEVELOPUENT IF NOALTERATION IS }1ADE:
av and uti I it tm rovements would not be possible.
. WETLAND ALTERATION PBR$IT
EVAI.UAIION I{ORXSHEEI
ro Be comp).eted By Applicant and submitted pith Application(Attach additional sheets if necessaryt- -
I. I{ETLAND DESCRIPTION:
Size: See Attached Letter for Description
PURPOSE OF PROPOSED ALTERATION:
--
5 B. IDENTIFY AND DISCUSS OTHER
ALTERATION:
Lake Drive East is in existance
ALTERNATIVES TO WETLAND
. Improvement would not be possible
without the p osed wetland ai teration.
c.IDENTIFY TEE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OF TEE PROPOSEDALTERATION:
The a rea nfrastructure wil I be improved, storm water draina'I ge will
n r iled a nd directed. }lildi ife habitat primarily for
sma l lma ls and birds wil l be e l imi nated .
5.
hp ao
USING THE T{ETLAND ORDINANCE STANDARDS AS A GUIDE, DE?ERUINEWHETHER THERE ARE ANy INcoNsIsiiNdG; iiT*eeN THE oRDINANCEAND PROPOSED ALTERATION:
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEN
P.C. DATE: March 21, 1990
C.C. DAIE: April 9, 1990
CASE NO: 85-25 SUB
Prepared by: Krauss/v
STAFF REPORT
Fz
(J
=(LL
B
lrJha
Replat of Lake Riley Woods 2nd Addition
North of Pioneer Trail and east of T.H. 101
PROPOSAI:
LOCATION 3
APPLICANT:George Nelson and Associates
1660 So. Hwy. 100, Suite 428
Minneapolis, MN 55415
PRESBNT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USB!
WATER AND SEIIER:
PEYSICAT CEARAC.:
N-
s-
E-
w-
A-2 and Lake Riley
A-2t nursery
A-2;- single family
A-2; single family
Not available
Site has been graded to a11ow for develop-
ment. Pineview Court has been installed
and one home is currently under construcci
on Lot 4.
Ru ra1
n
A-2, Agricultural Estate
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
Planning conmission
l{arch 21, 1990
Page 2
PROPOSAL/COI,IUENT
On June L5, L987, the City Council approved finat plat for LakeRiley Woods 2nd Addition. The plat resulted in a creation of fivesingle fanily lots which are accessed off of a new cu).-de-sac,Pineview Court, leading to Foxford Road which ultirnately exits outonto Pioneer Trail. The subdivision was developed under existingordinances which al.lorred for the platting ot -\ acre lots. Btagreement with the Uetropolitan Council., further platting of lotsunder these provisions was prohibited after JuIy 1, L9A7. Currentordinances also allow 2't acre lots with 200 feeE oi frontage and adeptrl of 200 feet, however, at the present tine the averaje grossdensity shall not exceed t hone per 10 acres.
After_ approval, the plat was filed and improvements installed.Pineview Court was constructed and a hone is presently underconstruction on Lot 4. The street has not yet bet been acc6pted bythe city and rre continue to retain financial giuarantees as piovideiin the developnent agreenent.
Staff has rec€ntly been contacted by the developer and by thesurveyor working on the project. It has becone apparent that thedeveloperts surveyor made a najor error in the -ltcation of thestreet and of lot corners during construction of the plat. Theerror was significant enough thit the cul-de-sac was displacedapproximately 50 feet north of where it lras intended to ie andadditionally, the home being built on Lot 4 has part of itsdrainfieLd located on the adjoining Lot 5. The 'surveyor isproposing the replat as a neans of relolving these discrepincies.The replat would have the effect of shifting lot lines to piace theLot 4 drainfield on -Lot 4 plus give that 1ot the acr:eage thepurchaser had expected. rt would also result in the shifting ofthe right-of-way to the north to acconmodate the actual. streetal.ignnent. Hovever, the proposaL results in the creation of avariance. rpt area on r-ot 5 wourd be 2.2 acres which is rTroirrs otan acre below the 2\ acre ninirnum standard.
Staff has reviewed the history of this natter and finds norationale fo-r supporting eithei the variance or ttre .Lliit "=Ergpgsed. Through the developnent process, the City nacld a goodfaith effort to insure that our sta-ndards rr.r" "orpiiea-wlirr anathat -a conpatible, well designed project wouLd reiult. What rrehave here is the basic fact that th; diveloper,s consultants ipp"..to have cornmitted a najor error. we also ntte that there is no waythe city .wourd have been anare of this probrern. a .egi;tereasurveyor is licensed by the state and assuiles liability i;i-tt"i.,work. The city in turn relies on the fact that the wor'k lieparea
Planning Connission
![arch 21, 1990
Page 3
by a registered survey is legitinate and finds no need for furtherquestioning. We understand that a hardship results for the
purchaser of the home on LaE 4, who is an innocent bystander, andto the developer who qu.ite probably has legal recourse against the
surveyor he retained. Hot ever, this does not constitute a hardship
consistent with the fintling that is required to support a variancerequest. This is clearLy a self-created hardship. we see no
reason for the City to assume the burden of having to accept lotsthat do not neet our standards as a result of this situation.
I{e beLieve that there are several methods that could be consideredto resolve this issue. There are two situations that result fronthis problen which need to be rectified. The first is that thedrainfield for Lot 4 is actually located in part on Lot 5. The
second is that Lot 5 itself is undersized and rrith 2.2 acresreguires a variance. Alternatives for resolving this situationinclude acceptance of the plan as proposed by the applicant whichwould also require approval of the variance. The secondalternative is to elininate Iot 5, merging it with Lot 4 so that
the variance situation ceases to exist. Staff uould be opposed tonaking an outlot out of Iot 5 since with 2.2 acres it is notbuildable in this district. A third alternative could conceivablyresult in reconstruction of Pineview Court back to the approvedlocation. This would allow the plat to be configured as approved,
however, it would not resolve the problen with the placement of thedrainfield for Lot 4 nor lrouLd it apparently result in the plattingof a lot that meets the expectations of the persons that bought Iot4. The drainfield on Lot 5 could be covered by a protective
easenent.
Lot Areaordinance 2.5 acres
Lot Frontage Lot Depth
200 r 200 t
Ire Setlacl(
5oI front/rearlor rear
N/A
N/A
I,ot
Lot
1
2
370 r
400 |
2.5
2.5
280 |
220.
Staff is recornmending that the second alternative be adopted. Itwill result in the creation of a Lot that is consistent with the
expectations of the purchaser of Iot 4, it will avoid the creationof any new variances, and. it will avoid the need to reconstruct
Pineview Court. Staff understands that this reconnendation wilflikely result in some financial hardship which we presume willultinately fall back onto the shoulders of the consulting firm thatprepared the p1at. However, we believe that this is reasonablegiven the source of the problero and our belief that this is a self-
created hardship that should not be approved by the City.
COMPLIANCE TABLE
Rural Residential District
Planning Conmission
llarch 21, 1990
Page 4
Iot Area
I acres
5
I.ot 5
Variances
2.2 N1')
2
2
3
4
Lot Frontage Lot Depth Hone Setback
210 r
2501
2301
350 r
Iot
Lot
1
2
3
N/A70r front
230 r rear
6Or east
lOOr uest
302 |430 r N,/A
Vl - Variance of 13,068 square feet to allou the pJ,attlng of lotsas a 2.2 acre lot.
STAFF RECOI{I,{ENDATI ON
1990.
Staff reconmends that the request to replat Lake Riley Woods 3rdAddition be denied due to the lot area variance that reslults on Lot5. If the Planning Cornmission deterroines that the plat should beapproved, staff vould reguest that the iten be coniinued to givePlanning and Engineering Departnents an opportunity to prepare luchconditions of approval that nay be deened appropiiatei -
ATTACHII{ENTS
I€tter fron Pioneer Engineering dated l.larch 15,Reduced copy of replat.Prelininary plat.
*ilt,eei
t:Ilreerins
Itarch l5i, 1990
CMI EngirEcE . Lrncl Flann€E . t..nd Surneyora . bndacapo A,tfiitcct8
ltlgno tro: planning OwrriEslon & City Oounctl rffiers
RE: take Riley t*oods 3Bal &ition - tiepl,at ,P.E. Job + 890{9
Dear Honorable !,byor, Councll lrs6ers .Id planniog Cttrission tg&"r",
1".F:.--T..:::H 1lqr:. of tf,r rake Rilery r$oodts ad tdditroo pbtmEn.a vartanct reguest for tot S to ba 2.2 acrcs in licu of the- --
requlrcd 2. 5 Erca.
Itte r.asolt for t}!e replat i.s tbe result of tdo (2) lterts, one leTn'tr*lign. staking error rdrlch resultd in trp iave<r- gurto""-ot ttre -
street shlfting to tlre norrh. Ihe secrnat tc tf,e iocatt;";a-;-- --.
exrErrng horrs€, on tpt 4, togethc rith lts reptic tank rrd &atnflelde.
Ihe distanc.e tlle street rEvtEd to the north rarrges !rc6 O feet et thaintersection of t*re cul-de-aac street anl norf5ra bad toa5proxlnntely 50 lect at t*E entcr of t}E qrl-de-eac. l{tren It rsediscovered that the paved ctrcet.ens rDt locared pitbin Ure piatiEright-of-rey, ttpre ras a choice to mal(6 betr€en mvtrg tG ^rt it-bacxto th€ platted right-of-way or rcplattlng the proFrty to raove theright-ofrmy to h,tBre tlre paved ttreet ras focitei.
At the the tlle error ms discovered, the flr3t clurse of asphalt
lEvsnent had been crDatrrEted together wtth t}e crushed rocli baee,stleet grading ard a considerable anowrt of subgrade correction, rrtrlctrinvolve- excavating and ranoving urstable s<iff ticn r:nder tlre r&myaril replacing thie material wlth anltable stable €ngin erirg fill. - I+recost of tlE street constrrrction to thls polnt ras ln t*e range o!
S301000.00. In addition to tlE street having been oonatrlEtad, tlE
undergroud electric has also ben inctaU€6.
ttle cost to relocateCl tle gtlect to th€ platt3d right-of-my nould beconslderable. In llght of thls, lt lEs decldeit ttrat tfe pacttcal
ansrer $ould be to roplat tlc progrerQr.
,ithe replat le csseotially t}e sare plat'as rfrat ros recorded rlltlt 2rttddition p1at, Tfrc net area for tte flve (5) Iots ranalns the srE aEthe total area of the plat remaios the aap.
\
Tte request for tlc variarce relates to tne cofliltloo wlt]r t]re housetbat has been constructed oo tot a. llad tjrere been no house
construct€d on tct 4r tlE rqflat of protrrrty erould not reguire a
varianc.e request for the redlEtlon ln the 1ot area of I.t 5 ftqu 2.5acrea to 2.2 acxez.
2422 Enterprljl glys MGndotr H.lghta, Mlnnarota 55120 (012) C81-1S14
)
P I oncer Ellr I rlaar I ht 6A L94ea P.63
Plnning furission e City birrcll trqbercIake Rilel, rFods 3rd lddiaionllarcb 15, 1990
Bage 2
-tj_?!!::r: lt.thiE.polnt tlot o,T optigns rlth regard to tbc tor areavarlance are to eitlpr -request the irariane nitfr ifre pfat or t"-;;tJE lruse . rE do rot^1iiwe tt t--iii-Url buee lr a vtabloqtion, or ls lt *aptable to ttt- ff.-
fhaok yotr foE !,ou! tlD arrat cdl8ld€r.tia| ytth thls !qFre6t.
n4-ctfu11y,
PIOIEER EII3INEERIIE, P.A.
*)*{ (,rrae.'
Jorl G. Ooolnr, i.t.
Jelblh
lltpre have bccn nttrEoioua nEatlngs wlth tie trqneor.)efs of lpt rlrteeardine trr placcrsrt or tr- 6dJii.-iriilL.*. thelt rct (4)*-at= adjac€nt [.ot (5). r?E6e neetings r,i L*rta i., tr,"placaeDt of that lot lirp 6s preEent€d on tlris rcpfat. It is thecordition that exists erlh ,E-i;;t". ;; HLiatirg house rhich tu.Bcteated r'ne request for lre "*i;,1".:-";i"Jir* rtre Btleet back tothe right.{f#y rpuld not result in rgrilG'it necd for tie varianceD€cause tlp location or tle -cqnrpn
-i.t il;?*lo need to be the sa,eff"fffiT::r#rff".*r.. atr to tre roitiil-ir the d;-a;=Jili"
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CITY OF
EH[I{H[ESEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-57s9
I.{EI.{ORAN DIJ},I
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBI:
Planning Conmission
PauI Krauss, Planning Oirector S(-
l,larch 13, 1990
Proposed Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance Amendments
Pertaining to Requiring the Posting of DevelopmentNotification siqns
PROPOSAL/SUT{MARY
During the adoption process of the amended site plan ordinance, the
Planning Co'nrnission and City council discussed the protentiat ofrequiring the posting of signs on sites undergoing developrlent
review by the city. Both the CommjEsien and Council believed it
rrould be a good idea to promote public knowledge of these proposalsthrough the use of these signs as is done in many other
conmunities.
Responding to a request by the City Council, staff prepared threealternatives for their review including:
1. nequiring the applicant to obtain and post the sign,2. Requiring the City to obtain and post the sign, and3. An alternative vhereby the city would obtain the signs.
They would be rented to the applicant rrho uould be responsible forposting the sign. The rental fee and daroage deposit rrouLd enablethe city to recoup its expenses relative to irnplernenting the sign
progran.
The city Council selected the third alternatLve with a suggested
5100 rental fee and $100 danage deposit. staff has informationthat the signs will cost $200-$250 and we estirnate a need for up to
20 signs for the projects rrhere the ordinance reguires a sign.
Staff revi.ewed the Councilrs direction and deternined that
ordinance anendnents are required to implernent it. These ordinance
amendments were accordingly prepared by the City Attorney and arepresented for your review.
Planning Cornrnissi.on
Iilarch 13, 1990
Page 2
RECOI,TI,TENDATION
Staff recoumends the Planning Conmission approve the draft
ordLnance as attached.
I
tbCITY OF
CH[NH[ESEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5531 7
(512) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
PROPOSAL/COUMENT
On January 22, L990, the City Couacil approvecl the first readingof proposeil revisions to the Site ?Lan Review Ordinance. Thechanges would provide guidance in conducting these reviews aswell as provide standards against which proposals could bejudgetl. There were no specific reviaions requested by theCouncil during the first reading and staff is recommeniling that theordinance be given a second and final reading. The EnginieringDepartnent has requested that drainage calculations for I0 and100 year storms be providetl with site ?Ian submittals. Staff hasrevised the ordinance accordingly. We.have also drafted an ordi-nance summary for your approval. Theto reduce expenses related to the requordinance.
S IGNAGE
E
ry will aI1ow the Citypublication of the
summa
i red
At that meetingr a discussion pas hel.d regarding the advisabilityof requiring that signs be posteal on sites for rhich tlevelopmentplans are being reviewed. The signs would be used to increasethe public awareness of development propoals. .The signage idearras supported by the Planning Comniseion antl City Council andstaff was directed to further research the matter.
i a-
We have had an opportunity to gather atlditional dlata. Of thecommunities that were surveyedl, we fountl that Apple Valley,Edina, White Bear Lake antl Minnetonka require signs, while BdenPrairie, Eagan, Bloomington and tt{aplewooil do not. Eden prairie
formerly required sighs, but let the program lapse as signsneetled to be repaired or replaced. Of the cornrnunities thatrequire signs, Edina reguires that the applicant provide the signwhile the rest have city-owned signs.
II{EI{ORANDUI.I
TO: Don Ashworth, City ltanager
FROIi: Paul Rraussl Planning Director
DA!E: February 5, 1990
SUBJ: Secondl Reading of Proposed Amendnent to Division XISite Plan Review Procedures of the Zoning Ordinance,Approval of a Sunmary Ordinance for publlcation
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.11r. Don Ashnorth
February 5, I990
Page 2
We believe that
i ncluding :
there are several options regarding the signage
1 Reguire that t
as per Edina I s
reguirements t
adlvantage of ninclude develo
he applicant obtain, post
example. Edina provideshat are attached to tho cost to the City, bupe! cost and difficult
and maintain the signdetailed signageeport. This has the
e disadvantagesobtaining a sign,ing that the required
is rtthyof
nsur
2. Provide the signs at City expense with the City crewserecting and removing. Advantages include ease of admi-nistration and the disadvantage is cost, although permit feescould be raised accordingly.
3. Ihe last option is for the City to provide the signs andcharge the developer a rental fee. The developer poul.d beresponsible for erection and removal and for sign replacementif neeiled. This would appear to be the least cost option.
Staff found that Rainbow Signs, Eopkins, the company that qakes
the signs for uinnetonka, charges $175-9200 for 4r x 6. wooden sign.
If a sign program is adopteal, the City would have to determinetchich actions would require posting. IIe would recomnend thefollowing:
1. Pl.atting resulting in the creation of 3 or more 1ota.
5
2
3
4
Site Plan reviews.
Rezonings.
Guide Plan Amendments.
and atlministrative sork related to isign has been posted.
Conditional Use Permits
new building (such as a
resulting in the conatruction of a
church ) .
It is expected that the City would need approxlmately 15-20 aignsto start a program if the sign is to be naintainett until final-action is taken on a propoaal.
Staff is seeking the City Councilts direction on this matter. Ifyou wish us to proceed, we will prepare any required ordinancechanges and procedures for your review.
STAFF RECOMMENDATfON
Staff recommends that the Ca Zoning Orilinance anenilnenreview procedures, and apprpublication.
ity Council approve second reading oft to Division XI regarding Site plan
oval of the ordinance au&nary for
.,
Managerrs Reconmendlation Regarding Siqnaqe Options:
Council deternin
rezoning, etc. Ipurchase,/renta 1a number of days
Should thehat posting a sign is reguired for platting,s office woul,d recommend that Option 3 (Cityk) is preferred. Without question, thele arering the course of the year t{here the Street
brdlL
etthi
bac
ilu
Superintendent coulil assign one or two employees to erect a signon a given morning,/afternoon. Hoerever, there are an equal orgreater nunber of days where each employee is given a section ofthe city to complete a specific work function (ploring, saniling,
second pass widenings, etc.), or where each man has a specifictask, i.e. sealcoating, overlaying, trench work, etc. Plowing,/sealcoati ng,/trenching work can be a one to trro week process.
Taking away one or trro men then becomes extrenely dlifficult.
Making the developer responsible for installation insures thatthe City is not going to be blametl for not getting the signinstalleil in a tinely fashion. The seeond benefit is that by
having the City purchase the sign. we can control lettering, con-sistency of s i zeslshapes/co1or,/etc. The rental aspect shoultlreduce costs for most applicants. A rental fee of $100 with a
damage deposit of 9100 should produce a cash flow position havingvery minor impact upon the City.
Drarh -rn Ecreatior.l &rrr,lgslsr td.nut:s datcd Janrrar-w g, Lggg
o. ltrtbEla to trrcirE Eqpltq Biu.
q. fcccPt Estgnations frct nrbllc Safeer Gt|tdsslorss tlaktorsr and ttlry.
fU tod tn Glvr rrt tlE rtollm carrled!.
I. IPPROT}}L CF ZONIIiE GDI}IA}E II{E}{DHETI NEGANDIIIG sI:IE EAII EIITEf
IREEDORES, 8I}AL NEADIT\E, TID TPPnor,AL G SuIoIc oRDI}$EB BG, PIEITCATId.
orctLrrn eqt: -Oka:r, Ju1! a orpfe of cfiarEes to tt. tf liru look rt trge 3.Ithlg ls orr lnterlrr, use ordlna:ce. sotetntrg-that r thlnk Grrc au reilrE -
forrsrd to having. Sec{ion 2g-6?6, ltgt 3 rEsrs to r€ to be a rqEat of ltir, 1ro rragibc s can Just strlke tt.
Girrilntan Dlrr.ler: Gt{)orarlr tGaI Gatlte offles?
gl|ncltF.n Bg.rrt! !l!ae ttrr lntcrrr. ues, thyrre all tanporary. th.n I huldr'-lne b ee in 20-716 r the BH.. Brslrcss $sh*av dl3trlct trut e lrlou b{DrrI!,farrer tr r.rkets so rd suggeat rn lt6, 3r-Eaier,g llarketr. rn trp xr. reallor lt tn ure cBD. rt rDurd eertr lib tt El1al be even lEte mrce.iiL r"thc BIt. Ihatrs dl t had.
llalror Ctrdel s okayr vlth those ttF ch.,rges, can t h.te a rotlm?
&urlban tbrhtan: Ie there . r€radr huf *E, ralbe e l.ft thlt Grrt oftt:rc? Ort of tJ|e EIP
tul E uss: tD tlr. hrh?.n. ItErc real1y nsnit !'E, intat to lctee lt orterd e have rD I[ohI €rr trElrdtrg tt.
CbrEllEr.n DIrIer: trd !trfrrccllte eetng tt ln t{rere.
orEllran Bogt: lt4"
o.rEllrgun Ddrt rer: Bec.use retre ln the brslrEss. r rrc\le ltqrr l(a).
Gbrellran 8o6: Secfit.
Grcllmrn dr.Ier rtand, orrrcllrrsn Bo:at lecsdeit to qDrov,! tortrq oritlruuttlnah.nt l?g"ndfnE Elte plarl rcvten proe&rrea, Elrul tEklrg ard tiprorraf olSrl.try Gdtn rce for Prrbllcatlon ac l'€rded [l'(5rrtlrtan a.gt. -ft-f-i"a Utwc lrd the rcttcr -t-ld.
\ I ?:_ trq4& c mirnE cRDnqlrE x{Etrr{EtT GlnDrF trE nEr/rE{ rlD GReMrre CY- IHDI UI9IFIIF IIOR OSEIi ITBI I88 TElPOnAng IN tBTT'Rts DI TT' DISIIBICT8,/\ IIBL NEADIIE, rlD APPnT,UAL C suaaru oRDlrnlr EG PIDLICISIoT.
6rGllru'.n Dtrtlcr: t grcss other Folrlc ptctd rp or tlrb t6 brt rE dtit trrk.bot, r trtkd to^paur &rlter taa!, rrurcitrng tlit tl'lr orainatne c,.rat begarad the ey lt ls ard e coild talk lbott ttr stgnage ht r tbtnk th.a a-J
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Citl, courEil lbettng - fEbrrrary ]..2; L99S
glould ralee take care of it rlght amy. lltere are three optisls glven tn thefirst page after tle yeuo$ gage. I grrss Ir11 9o alorg vlth stafi
rects'errilation of qtlon 3 but Itd like to tear ac.e dlicrsslon.
OlrEilF.an Bo]'t: Ird be happg to ctrirre in. I thlnk Optlm l rakes rtore eense
because lt keeps the City orrt of tl- slgn tnslness. Eliru ee$,s to be able to
dlo it grtte. suclessfuult. Yql rrctloe ln gour [Ecket, the IErt of it pu Justreceived this evenlng, there is Einars requirerr€nts. t thlnk trttat that to re
rakes rtore sense to have the develol=r take cale of ttrle thm to have tlE Cit!,
store 29 sigins sc'eplace ln city propertlw.
hrrEilran Johnson3 For lears rll over tte country develo1Ers have doye this. Alot of other tohns frve seen everlplace tjlis is for erbdlivision lou lvow. ItrstlE clst of doirg Lxrslness ard lt.s rDt tllat exgenslve.
Gurrilrtan Bo!t: IErre mly regtirtrg tl= slgnrs ln eoe trrtlorlar Eituations
that are
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reasonably dra'atic so I thir* ttris sort of develoIEr prdabU, h.s. a
sign or is arare of t}le likeUhooit of reeding lt.
Corrilran Johnson: (h the issrE of I, 2 or 3. Qtlon Ir 2 ot 3, Ii1} go rlthl right mw sith 3 in secerd plac€.rd Option 2 I don.t Llke at all. Ihe otherthirg is, tdhat are re goirB to requke the sigrns for.
Corrpihutan DirJer: f€ aLread!' diso:ssed trhat. tet tre JuBt explain to lDu rdh:,I liked @tlon 3. I think I e:9lalned the last tlrra ttrls care arounat that E
had s:ch a problsr, even getting a sign q) for the garage sate for Chaska
Boosters because no one c.orfld ctre l{, wlth a sign that r€t t]re ordinares. Dyen
though lt r€s a t€n{,orar}, aign, that re finally g.ve t*l Bo Iin. Eaylng if oru
reqnirerrents are that difficult to tr€et, tt=n ltra golrg to be a hassle for the
developer to cqre rp wltlr a sign that wrl1 allow tjlgt to Ilrt up. Or t}e other
hard if t]re City t'akes the slgn, rE En't ha\re that hr$le. Ap[Erently r€rre
golng to Feet our cim ordinance to Ftt rtr) the aigru. lltcn a1so, ltrs rot goiry
to cost the City rtrrtr because tlny wtII be paytrg. ItlE just that tlcy don.t
have to be responsible for the deslgn and all of tJrat rlgataroll co',irg tp vlth
the correct sigin.
6n Eiltr.an Johnson: Eiru glves 1ou tlr eract d6lgn. 60 lrches.
Oourcilncran Dtr.ler: I{el1 th€n the Ctty suld tuve b cqre rp wlth a it-estgn.
&rrrcllrtan Johnsdr: Iid uae Elln 's. t*ar relnwrt tlE *Eel? lErd Just luve
to change EEina to Chanhass€n.
OwEllruran Dirr.ler: naul, do !,ou Bnt to addlress thrt? I Just reF€r.&er that
uas arh a hassle to get a algn, a terporar!, slgn to [rrt q, fo[ the Chask
Boosters dtrcrr € Ented to erlDort. ilhe:r r€re havlng a ntrrrage sa1e. It EE a
ver:, tst'porar:, slgrn ard rp couldh I t Elt dE l{) JuBt because e corr.ldnt t c{rre up
sdth tjte goper sign.
Iaul Eauss: I,tsU orEllrsrtr Dlri[69, lf gave crlterh !'d drarrgeat oE
oritinarr?B lf re need to, oE of tte thlrgs E ,rd to dto ls agk orrr attorrEl, asto $hat strEturally rE nd to dlo r*ren E rake a Belectlon dr tils. Brt lf E
requiredt lt, the slgn crould go r4, wltlout requirlrg rddltlonal Flmlts. fheproblar I think pu had wi.th tbe t6'pora!!r sign Es tlut Sorr rceded a ter{rorary
sign Ftrrdt lrrder orr exlstlng ordlrErL-a ant ttDse lre scFeHhat restrictlve.
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ciB, erEt1 Eeting - Sruary L2; L99S
llte problat, that rE saw thorrgh ln reguirlrg tlE apprlcant to obtaln their orns19n es sc of ost -{ tt". rtny-rculd-need tii procure " sign *"tr-tin tr,r=c e qp. Itn sigrn muld only be used orr ard ttE r-it rculd be-dtt4ns€d of.
&trcilrrcrran Dirr.ler: So ittd be a Este?
hul Xra'rae: t.b thlnk pu could eryeitlte lf e had! tle sigrns dl h!rd.'
ourikuran DirtJer: Yeah. PIus thelrr re pSring for tt. I don,t think ltrsgolrg, ot co-s! th Citry ruch. Ard re,ie tafHrg-about 8torlng 2g sigrns? IE,rehlldlrg a big rew dred.
o.,.iban Johnsa: t*ren I look at sorcboit!, rihora got a Fdlllqr dollar
lepl9fent 991n9 ard *-a 92gg.gg exEsnse or that rrdU.tor dollar develoFr€nt,r d6rrt Bee tlat rrr. keaking tlE bank. r aee Erre golrg to rent the stfri to'tlst for SLSS.SS arrl Ecre of tlese gu[,s can prdably get it rrake fotr lecs thantnat ff they have tlreir crm shops art- r*ratev&. ttis-Jrrst a blg ilear. r donrtEnt, !e already do emugh. _Orr etaff ls plen{ Ur:gy wftfrout havlrg to hlre8q'€body -m to lrrt w gtgns lor developers. rtis part of their J6l rf tt elttErt to develop that piece of ProIErE , trttey just folros tIE orttinarre. IrE tEedto have...
O.rrilr.r.n Djrtler: Brt under qptlon 3r the developer rrculd be resqnnsible fore\ren prttirE lt up ard re.ovlrg lt. rtra Just that Erd prorlde tlc- slgrrs an! rtlrit t+t'! a good use of orr rEtural res6urces. r hate- to eee rrs ret;vent tJrer.tEel all the tirre.
orrcilrran Johnson: Betsren r .rd 3, rrll go sitlr 3 as easy aa 1 but r stilrtblnk that e haventt defined ?xa*ly ntrictr-ttrings are goh! to reea signs.rhere are 6a.e srggested aes ln t-re urt r think re haie t5 acrae ra.E ul1need a-sign ard hlhat snrt. Like this shivley srbdiviglor rater tarrjtri. A.lot4rllt lnto trD lots. D rE rEnt to have to prt W a aigrn fa A.ii -i a.y -.
OourEiban Bolt: IEI1 yorr dorrt unler tble eltJrer.
orrllrran ilrrlo.an: r tlink lf plrttirE reanrtirg in ttc creattor of 3 or rtcelots., anen if sc'eb@ probabU, alreaQ has a wifitng trryrer for aU 3 iots, rhatdo tby-care. Ihat-gets lnto ; little blt of rtu' e;re toing-tfri;-to let
lygltody know but ltrs kird of a lxlvate dear. rf r peo,pLe-uo,rytrt-i iJts, $hatdiffererne does it rtake sqrettres that lt,a been d-E.-
OrrclL.an Johnssl: ye.tr, or bfiethe[ yurr prat, lf lDu.re in a RlF dlstrlct. ard
lrou have thls cornfield ln t}e RsF dlstrtct ard 1au'ie golrrg to plrt trrose l"to151000 sqrrare foot 1or8. lt?t:8.$gt er.pect€it 6 9o h-itnie.- ii-:pr-G gofrqto coe ln artr
- Frt cqrrterclar builittrgs in there, [rgr troaee ure'"rgr,. r..rDt even grre lf replattlrB needs a algrn.
o.r'Ellran Bolt: r thlnk lt neeits . slgn because there are all sorts of lsg'ee
fi-:" yrr. lrlow- arounl ar!, de\reloFt€rit tiat cdr€s ln. tE rRnit rore ocrrunttylnvolvErent. ttren re Fail. ttrings !o eeople wltfiin ss, feet, r,any tlrr€s tflatr3t}le squlrrel.s ard the rabbits. erd. so-rrhen-tt [rrt. Blgn,f, e.r-eryto4, tfrat
99€ by tlere at least I(,Dns sotething r a gotng to tapen ani'e'ei'ca"Lrr ur"cttr, to fird out httat. tblbe r€rrr get a-fen-rtore rE6pre contrii"ArEl*".
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- leutual.v LZ2 La)A
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@urrllrutan Dirtrler rorred, OurEllr'an Jdrlson gecmited edtopttrrg ottlon 3, ttrat
the Clty providb the algns ard ctrarge the derreloFr r rental fee. lttc develolnr
rould be responsible for erectlon atl rs'oval andt for slgn replaa€r.nt lfneedd. All voted ln favor ani! tlc rotlan carrld
5
tGyor Ctrrdel: .I!Errr, do prr have uythlrg further? I grEss I Fuldnr t have irqrpr&rsr,s sith ltetr' nrber 3 elther. r think try us havlrq those signs avalrabie,givlng tlat to the devel.o[Ers. tet ttE derrelolnra lnstrll ther, elirdnates the '
p&lar with orr pople havirq to take that tlrte ort to do it.
ourcilran Bolt: Ihe cityrs talklrg abut a g4,ggg.gS erperdiurre initially.
l{a1or Ctrrriel: Concelveably ralibe e wtrt get 29 slgrns rlght amy either Bill.
CourEllrEran Dirt ler: D lDu Ent ua to rove tle slgrns reEErate frqr, rrtcre re
rceil t$e signs?
l{alor Gr'del: I t}rlnk eo.
orrcllw'an Dlrr.ler: Okay, ao I rcu]d rone t}|at E ldopt undler aignage qtion 3.
ourrilran Johnson: Seclrd.
ourEilran Bolt: Before E take tle note, ftd ltke to erggest ttat tlEre ra:' be
eo'e logic here ln what Ellru ls saying rcrks for tJlst. Ganted E ha\rent t
abcided $hat rerre going to reqrrire a slgn for trt I uould t €ntrEe that in thetExt 3 lEars louire golrg to Bee e\reri r.ore derrelo;ratt nhen tfE }IrSA llrE
expnds, as rc lgrow tt w111.
l,h1or Ctr.del: I think thatia a foregorc corrluslcr on trh.t. I agree.
Courrilran Bolt: If the developer I s resporslble for all of lt, artt really ttrenit lsnrt t}te Cit:'rs responsibilit:, to aee, do r,e h.ve 6ough 8igtns. gare slgnrs
out there. llcisr ran!, rezonirg slgrns do E get verBrs suHivlslm signs? t€
donrt have to rorry with that if e go rriti 160 I glrrss for tlrat reasct t.dt
vote agalnst 3, altlough I rlII aclmowledge there I a a very srall dlfferere ant
Itssul.a rtakes good points.
olrEllfian Johnssl: ttsll eee ce thlng I muld do, lf yourre uslng a sign llkethls. Ird have tlre basic aign rrade ard have rezonlrg orl a EeEErate plee ofFd. SrrHivision dr a Beparate plece of rcod. AIl tie other lnforrstion Bt!:ls
the sate ard tlrcn pu Just bolt cn rtretts itrs gofug to be a rezonlrg or a
eubdllvision so lf ltrs a arbtlivislon, slap tlrat tlrypy on. IiE dsr. t rEed qulte
ag Itrl'It.
oryrilmun Dirriler: So tlren that Euldt b btter for ttE City too.
hrElL'dr Johnsons tlake lt rerrcralblc.
orrrllmvan DirrJer: Yes. f .gree. IiHerfirl.
tlalror Ctrdel: Cbod polnts &l'.
Courrltr.n Bolrts I glve qr.
fuElLr'an Johnsdr: Ale ltcrr goltg to ttoue (n to for rfiat [rrrPo8e3 erre golrl,
to Frt t E elgns rp tEcau!€ re dldrrt rrote dr that?
tla:ror clr.lel: r tttlnk tbat's 8cF€thitg erre gotng to have to do.
6I,EllE'rn Dirtler: lEs that lDur tprtlo,l of nhat lou sntedl to dlscrrss?
6urlll.,an Johnsdr: Ieah. Itrat gas rry, but re've realIy Just dlscussd lt rtttb
BilI arit BiU has convinced re that plinning use muld, so IilI 9o with t.5e 5
llsted. l'he 5 reasons listd ln tle stlff reEort.
orrllstan DlLIer: tihat lrge are :,ou qr?
ltalor ctrtdel: Itgrs l tluu 5. tt.a dr tip aec.ord pge after thls -yellor stet.
ilittirq, rezodng. grulite plan a€rth€nts anit csdittonal u?e perr..tts resultlrg
h the 6anstr,EtiA of rw- br.rlldllrgs $rdr as a c*rurdr attl slt€ Plan re\tlel6.
ourEilE€n DirJer:
to be t{)?
Ia tlere a tlrte llrtdt sr tare? Ibn lotlg tlnse elgrns have
tlr:,or Orrdel: lltrere le a tlrc llrJtltion. Eul, ls that corr.ct? lbg r.Jl!'
days prlor to tl: p:bltc hearlrg rtust tlny te qP
Baul tcauss: llhe ordinarEes lrve seen requlreil 9 dlaF t,rlor to the pbl ic
tcarlng. I rDuld [Ersonall:7, rp have a r.onth trotie eihen sotathirg ccr€s ln. I
Errld Personally prefer that iE use tlat.
OouvrllrEran Dirr,ler: Okay, brt EtDuId Ie specttt' ln lere lP to I ronth or do Ie
need a tlrte restrictiqr? I dqrrt lglo$ if I follor.
Colcllrran Jottnson s I think 2 rEek8. tthat gives us 2 Eks to get tlE sl$ lP.
iorr Eal, itrs l rtgtth fro, nten tley hing tt in to us rntll lt oes before the
Plamirg OorJssiqr.
Paul &auss: Right.
@urillan Johnson: So terre tDt going to get lt q, exactl!' r:he tlay lt cores in
here so 1ou need, I rcu1d say 2 rreeks Prlotr to tlE flrst plbllc raetlrg m ttr
rtlon.
t{rltor Ctr.tel: Iea}r, I thint( t'llt rculd be ftrc.
@uElltran Dlrtler: Ar3t rs lorg aa tbere! e sotethl'g tlrta rbc.
oncltun Bqt: ritEre shouL! l.lr.t 9o ln the cdti'rltE.C?
ttyor ChtJel: Itrete rculdl that ftt ln hul?
tul EruEs: tt. tla:,or, *tat E tEedl to do aft€r E get lpur dlrectlon tcdgttt
lg to slt dorm wit]r Etle cfty AttortEy ard figure out tfiere €srctly ln ttE
ordirunce e have to rake these ctEnges or lf re can Just dlc lt as . Ircdurerltholt cbargltg t}D ordinue.
6rEilF.n Dlrriler: rbE\rer thlg 1g tne s''ord rea6lrg.
6
. City Ortil lGettrg - Februa:y ]-2; ]r99s
I
Paul f,rauss: lb, the thirg thatrs for tle aeoord rearirg tonigtrt ls for theslte plan revlen odinarre itself.
llalor Ctrtrlel: 0kay. &y, re bave a r.otion rt the floor. I thru 5.
Courrilrran Johnson: I will. IrlI tr'ove tbat E a& reasons for tle sign as I
thru 5 arri the signs strould be up 2 reeks prior to tlte first Frbl ic r€etlng.
ourrilran WoEln'an: I $Es I'd llke to dlscuss a llttle blt rdlat orr trottgrr
erd m tlis thing is as far as 3 or rore lots lnal *rat ra:ibe Ja:r or BilI,
e6€bod:, can give rre an idea about ttE tlpe of ls,pact that rerre golrg to be
avertirig lf e require that. I thlnk thatts a little blt graller titr€.
tBlor Ctrtriel: lGIl if peop).e wlthln thelr areas are stilI corterrd aB to
rfiatis hap[Ening ln ard adjacent to tbeirs ulth ]hati6 beirq dterrelqelt wtt]rin
that specific area.
ourcllrran llcrloran: Ert e\ren for 3 lota?
corriL.an Johnsa: tlc. tbt l,ltil erer s'es in.
6urc1lran tlorls.,an: Brt lrr, sayl4l, I don't lm6r. lralbe lt'B hurtlrg ,€thirq.It's 9o1ng to Frt a brrden m a grall plit I thlnk. Iou talk about t.he rdlllon
dollar deals.
@urEihan Johnson: You Eee so few raII €pI tt6. tEuatl.y ltra either 2 or ahudt. $hat n&ber are :,ou thinktrg? 3? & Ln g?
ourEilran B!t: llpre r s a good argment for llr3r E don't Ent lt to b 2.
Cormilran Johnson: Yeah. Breqbo4t lot splits.
6urEih.n Bo:t: Btt q) fror' there, ntrre & e go? I donrt lror r*ratr a rtagic
abollt 3 txrt I dor't knqr rftere to 8tot, eltls.
ourcllrran Jotns61: You can prcbably arg|lr I rs tEll aE 3 lrd 5 .s ElI !6 l.
Oorrcllrr,an l{orkr.anr: Yor lmfl I do'rt t ltte to arge. llhatts firc. I g[Ets I
6t1I1 havenrt teard any rearrcn6 *ry blt ttutra flre.
Oorrcllrcr.an Dlriter: b yolr tEnt to r€nEve lt ort of tlEre?
OorrrlL.an [{orls'.6n: ilc, becauge I dmrt really hane an ogtlor. t dontt have an
optim r+) frqr.3. I donrt have a loglcal polnt to !toP.
Cotrrcilr',an Johnssr: l{e1l lf :rou I re Blttlng ln an area rrbere everybodyr a got L
acre lots ard soebdy deciiles to corwert his 1 acre lot to 3 151009 sErare footlota. Hls relghbors rcu1d be ve4g corarned about tlat. lheoretically tE @u1dlf tE had Just sllghtly over an rre, oonve[t to 3Iots.
Co:rrilran worls'an: I agree tJlat could happen but correnants rrsrrally proride
against so'ething }ike that 1ou loow. flftberuood ls an e<a'ple probably. IitsIl,
1ou couldn I t break those doen lnto less than 2 U2 acr€s anymy bn:t.I
I
7
I
city Ot Ell lGetlng - February L2; L99O
llryor Grtdel: I t.hir* 3 or t@re lota ls a good plae to 6tart rlt}t tt:
ourilruran Dlrr.ler: r do have a qrrestlon cr nrrber 3. Eul, coufd 1ou give rtear eraple of a guidle plan r€rth€nt?
naul Eauss: (tr, ltts a drange to tlE Lrd rrse plan. If acteboity trdl a hlghd€nslty regldl€ntlal site ard tt-y mnted tt to be orrercial,/reta-il.
&rcllm nr Dlnler: tbul&tt t that be overed rrder rezorlrgs?
Pu.l k lss: Itny could tleoretlcally rsk you to ctr.rge ttr lard ue plan
before thy ask prr to ctrange tle antrg.
ol'Eilr'rn Johnsan: ItE tlEy can eore b.dr anl aay the lanl use sa!,a ltraa,Iftosed to be inrcrcial. Ior have to dlnge r.E antng for re.
arclban Bogrt: I Jrrst tlnrght of eorethirg. tErre about to c*rarge the 1ardue plan. Dee this rrean $rat tlE City has to run out ard poEt tlE ClqA
hul Rrauss: Itere are gactical Uftttattorl3 to that. fb.
6Eilr.n Bo!rt.: Brt re are dnngtrq. lrE. re gqnsing to dlarEe t:he lard rseln se\refal are.e. Gn e hardle that aB r blanket for- Ur nhoft clty ard ndonrt trve to get into, I Fuld like to tlink that erre lDt creatlrg atltuatlm ln utrldr eire suddenly goirE to lttter tlre hlgtnays stth...
laul kauss ! I€ bad rD intent of dotng lt. If gourd ltke to qeclficallyercllde that, that rDuld be tte my to ab tt.
ourcllrtan Bqt: Its}l re, do e have to apeclflcal.ly exclrde th.t b lreep tlreClqi frar havlrg to be cornernd lbout the lant ue plan r€r6l€rts?
Elllott Fretscrh: !Ir'&er 3 dru4
ol'Eiltr,an Bolts Right. lrd it rtakes srge lf a danelq=r ltnts to c*a ln anit
*{rg:- t}re- lard us9 plan, thatrs prettl, rsrotc hrt ff they rantd to do th!t,t!,.t !h"t F pg"t"d. Brt *rat about r*gr ttn City d,"nS* UE *lote lard ,!eplJl fG the Cit:f
El[ott. fetsch: Ite my lt-18 rtght ms e rould have to post slgns. hrould ttistirqulsh betwr primte anl prbllcalfy httlated pro:ecti.
(brciltlan -Bqrt: okay, excegt d"lnE tlp &pretrenslve ptannirlg PEGIs? tbrlltthat exclde it?
Grcllran Johrlsdr s r w111 take tiat rendh.nt as a frlerrtly r.€rrlrcnt arddErge guiab phn r€nih€nts exept for durlrg etprelnnstve plan nottlflcatlqroq-prdlng thereof. I'11 let 1ou rorl that clrt yflh tl|e Attorr€!, tf ny lacuritrtll uoept, thrt dE ge.
6tElb.n Bolt: tihot a l,our -conl?
&utllrtan Jotxsdr: Ilrsula.
lalpr Ctrdel: Iqr havenrt got ! eoord.l
I
.Clty or:lrcil !€eting : ttbruary Y2. L99A
bll,Eiltran Jobnson: I tlDught t rsula secorrld lt.
tlalor Grt iel: Not !Et. tD :pu rEnt to *corrt lt.
o|lEllrfiran Dfur.ler: Ir11 seaoEil that.
!q,or GrJel: An:, fiIrtjEr dlscEslon?
Currcllnan .Iofrnson ro\real, &trEllmtan olrtiler *cfited to dc4rt that all signs
be psteit 2 reks ;rior to the flrst Frb1lc teetltE for tte follodrg leasotrs !
I. Plattlng resulting ln the creation of 3 or rwe lots.
2. Eanirg.
3. Oriab PIan Ar€nAt€nt exqt Arfulg tne hPretEnstve Plarurlrg oess.
{. @rdltional IIse Elxr.lts reaultlrg ln tte constrrEtldt of a rw bulldlrg 1
(such as s durrch) .
5. Site Plan Evlen.
}1I \roted ln f,avor lnd tlE rotlon carrledt.
Paul Earlsss tr. t alrot, E ,rd .ctltl cl the ordlnara ttself.
CbrEltr..n Johnsdr: I Fo\re ltgtr 1(b).
Oourriku'an Dlrtter: As rerdedt?
@|'Eilltan Johnsdr: I€II rtually rihat E dtidl dlldh't even rend itetr 1(b). It
bd rp affect an itsr, 1(b).
OnEihrcran Dirriler: Secont.
&rDcllran Johngon rrorred, orntllrrrvan Dttler Eecotded to alfxore tle ecord ard
ftnal reading of a zonlng &dlnarre xt€nah€nt to Dlvlelon xI regadltg Slte Pllrl
revlan gooedures, anat alproral of tlle ordlne? surrr.ary for F$llcltlon. AII
votd ln f,avu anil tJre ltotlon carrleit.
H. AI'I}IoRIZE PREPARATION OF A FEASIBILITY SN'DT BoR IllE ETIENSION G TAKE DRIVE
wEgr FRCU COt lllTy RSD 1? TO AlrDt BSl R8D, REEl,lCrD PRCD(trTS, Ilt..
olrEitran tsrkran: I onl!, Hant to Eay tfiat, artl lrrt tDt auEe lf tln dlirengtons
here for tjle Redtortt koducts construc'tldl dttdt ta golng to be ratlrer lrrfiense,
does a[r[Ear as t]rough lt's golrq to be rigtrt ,Ear rtd across frcr, trke Stsan
Hllls. Gary, do 1ou have an ldtea about at thle trre, as lnfavrt eE lt 13, !t!'
ldea about lne f$,pacE on tlrat relgtrborhood? Itrey have a very large factlity
,w. I tmm t}re:ri re golrg to dorrble or trlple lt.
9
I
CITY 08 CHANIIASSEN
CARVER AND IIENNEPTN COI'NTIES, UINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO.
ilT ORDIITIIICE IilEITDIXO CEIPTERA 18 IIID 20
OF TEE CEINEAASBX CTTY CODE CONCERIIING
DEVEI'PUEIT ITOTIFICAITION 8TGN8
02 /26 / 90
The City Council of the City of Chanhassen ordains:
8€ctlop 1. Chapter 18, Section 18-39 (c) of the Chanhassencity Giiffi-ode :i.s arnended to read as follows:
The Planning Commlssion shall hold a publlc hearing on theprellninary plat after notice of the date, time, place andpurpose of the hearing has been published once in theofficial nerrspaper. written notice shall also be nailed bythe City to the applicant and all orrners of record withinflve hundred (5OO) feet of the outer boundaries of theprelininary plat. A proposed developnent notification signsha11 also be erected on the subject property by theapplicant for alL proposed plats of more than four (4) Iots.The 61gn shall be erected at least ten (10) days before thedate of the hearing on the prelininary plat. The signs sha11be furnished by the City and the applicant shall post withthe City a S1OO.00 security deposit. Failure to post adevelopnent notifj.cation sign or to give notice or defectsin the notice shall not affect the vilidity of theproceedings. If a development J.s proposed -dj acent to a1ake, or will affect the usage of the lake, the applicantshal1 provide the City with a list of property ownersabutting the Lake at the tine of application. The City shallprovide nailed notice to the lake honeorf,ners as inconpliance with the procedures above. The applicant isresponsible for neeting with affected honeowners.
Sectl.op 2. Chapter 20, Sectlon 20-43(a) of the ChanhassenCity Code is anended to read as follows:
No anendment to thls chapter, including the zoning nap shallbe adopted until a public hearing has been held thereon bythe Planning Counlssion. ttotice of the tine, place andpurpose of an anendEent hearing shall be published in theofficial newspaper at least ten (10) days prior to the dayof hearLng. when an aDendment Lnvolves -tranges in one (1) ormore district boundaries affectl.ng an area ot five (5) acresor less, notice of the hearing shal1 be nailed at least ten(10) days before the date of hearing to each olrner ofproperty withln the area proposed to be changed and olrnersof property situated wholly or partially within five hundred(500) feet of the property to which the anendnent relates.
When rnailed notice is required, a proposed developmentnotification sign sha11 also be erected on the suLjectproperty by the applicant. The sign shall be erected atleast ten (10) days before the date of the hearing. The signshall be furnished by the City and the applicant shalI posiwith the City a $100.00 security deposit. Failure to polt aproposed development notification sign or the failure of aproperty owner to receive notice as specified herein shallnot invalidate the proceedings. Where appropriate, noticesha11 also be given to affected honeohmer, s associations.
SectioD 3.Chapter 20, Section 20-111 of the Chanhassencity Code is amended to read:
Public Hearins.Upon receipt of a conpleted application, a
SectioD a.Chapter 20, Section 2O-23L of the Chanhassencity Code is anended to read:
date sha1l be set for revLew of the site plan before thePlanning Conmission. The review will be hLId no less thanten (10) days after nailed notice is sent to the or^rners ofproperties located who1Iy or partially within five hundred(500) feet of the site, as reflected in the records of theCarver County Auditor. The Director of planning may requirean expanded roailing list for sites fronting on 1akeshorewhere the development would be visible over a larger area. Aproposed developnent notification sign shall also be erectedon the subject property by the applicant. The sign shalL beerected at least ten (L0) days before the date of thehearing. The sign shall be furnished by the city and theapplicant shalt post with the City a $1OO.OO se-uritydeposit. FaiLure to post a proposed development notiiicationsign or the failure of a property owner to receive notice asspecified herein shaLl not invalidate the proceedings.
FoLlorring the hearing or any continuance thereof which isnot appealed by the applicant, the Planning Conmission shall
rnake a reconmendation. The site plan sha11 be forrarded tothe city Council with the Planning Cornmissionrs
recommendation for revieu on the next available agenda.Final approval of the site plan requires a sirnple majorityvote of the City Council.
The application, public hearLng, public notice and procedurerequirements for conditional use penoits shall be the sameas those for anendments as provided in Article II, Division2, except that the perrnit sha1l be issued on the affirrnativevote of a najority of the entire Council and onlyapplications that propose construction of a new buildingshaIl reguire the erection of a proposed developrnentnotification sign. Although specific submissions required tocomplete an application for a conditional use permit rnayvary with the specific use and the district in which it islocated, a).1 applications for such permits must include at
minimum a site plan that clearly illustrates the following:
-2-
proposed land use building napping and functions,circulation and parking areas, planting areas and treatment,sign Iocations and tlT)e, basic liqhting concerns, therelationship of the proposed project to neighboring uses,
environmental inpacts and denand for nunicipal services.
SectioD 5 .Chapter 20 of the Chanhassen City Code is
amended by adding Division 5, comprehensive Plan Amendnents,Section 2o-L2o, to read:
2O-L2Oz Conprehetrsiya Plrrr ltleDdDelts.
If a landorner initiates an anendtnent to the land use
nap in the City's Conprehensive Plan, a notificationsign shall be erected by the applicant on the propertyfor which the change ls sought. The sign sha1l beerected at least ten (10) days before the date of thehearing on the prelininary p1at. The sign shatl befurnished by the City and the applicant shall post withthe City a $100.o0 security deposit.
Eectior 6.This ordinance shall be effective imnediately
and publication.upon its passalre
Don Ashlrorth, CLerk/Uanager Donald J. Chniel , lilayor
(Published in the Chanhassen Villager on 1989 . )
-3-
PASSED AND ADOPTED by the Chanhassen City council this _day of , 1990.
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690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
CITY OF
cHfi{H[SSEN
6f-
SUBJ! Proposed Amendments to Chapter 20, ArticJ.e II,
and Encorcement of the City Code Pertaining to
Administration
var iances
II{EIITORANDUU
TO: Planning Cornnission
FROM! Paul Krausg; Planning Director
DATE! March 14, 1990
I{hile working on various clevelopment proposals, two aspects ofthe City's variance procedure have come to staffrs attention as
areas where modifications could prove to be useful . These two
areas concern administrative procedures as to who is responsiblefor reviewing and approving variances while the seconil is relatedto the criteria that are used in reviewing variance proposals.
According to the current ordinance, all variances are to be
reviewed by the Boaril of Adjustments and Appeals. In actualpractice over the past few years, while many variances have been
brought before the Boaral, a number of them have been approveddirectly by the City Council after consideration by the Planning
Commission.
The Board of Adjustments anil Appeals serves an extremely usefulfunction in the community. Eowever, the procedures whereby all
variances are reviewed by the Board could potentially be con-fusing and time eonsuming anil represent an avoidable problem inthe timely anil effective review of dlevelopment proposals. Many
communities divide up the responsibilities for approval ofvariances. The Board of Acljustments and Appeals is generally
responsible for those variances which are associated withbuilding single family homes or additions to those homes onsingle iarnily lots. In many of thege comirunities, it is the
Planning Commission and uLtinately the City Council that reviewall other variances which may be attached to subdivisions, con-ditional use permits, site plans and in the near future interim
use permits. In our opinion there are several valid reasons for
considering modifications to the variance proceclures. A variancewhich, for example, is associated with a subdivision may be con-sidered by the Planning Commission and City Council to be valid
based upon a number of considerations. These nay include
topographic features, surrounding development pattern, desire to
avoid other more significant variances, public input, environmen-tal preservation efforts o! similar matters. while the Planning
Conmission and City Council are equipped to review the sub-division in its entirety, the Board of Adjustments and Appeals
would typically be looking at that variance proposal in a mannerthat almost takes it out of context. This may result in thevariances receiving consideration subject to criteria that may bedifferent between the Planning Commission/City Council and the
Boald of Adjustments anil Appeals. This factor could jeopardize aproject and put a developer or landowner in a difficult position.
The second related matter pertains to the nechanics of the proce-
dure itself. When a developer or property owner rdorks with staffto develop a proposal, there is a lot of effort. time and moneythat is expended before it is revieh,ed by the PlanningConmission. A developer could easily be in a position wherebyhaving to produce a submittal that is acceptable to the planning
Conmission and City CounciI, their request for a related variancecould be rejected by the Board of Ailjustments, thus jeopardizingall of the work done to date.
Planning Commission
March 14, 1990
Page 2
Basecl upon these considerations, staff is proposing an ordinance
amendment that would give the City Council the ultimate authorityto approve variances that stem from subdivisions, site plans andconditional or interim use permits. The ordinance was alrafted bythe City Attorney at our request. The Board of Adjustnents andAppeals hrould continue to review all other variances. Note thatthe proposecl procedures will in no way minimize the community, sability to review and conment on the variance request since ineither case it would be subject to public hearing. We believethat this revised procedure would facilitate effective and timetyreview of these mattsers.
In another related matter, we have reviewed the Cityrs actions onvariances in the past and find that there are occasionallyinstances where the Council would like to approve a variance, butthat the existing five conditions for consideration of approvaldo not provide the necessary latitude to make this decision.Staff does not eish to indicate any desire to undermine the con-sistent interpretation of the ordinance, however, it is ourbelief that additional latitude could 1e9a1ly be provided in manyof these instances. We believe that the revised interpretationof hardship could be adopted under existing State Enablinglegislation and is not contingent upon changes to the Iaw thatare currently being comtemplateil. Consequently, staff asked theCity Att.orney !o review the criteria and suggest language thatwould provide this latitude. He has developed six reviied cri-teria that we believe accomplish this purpose. l{e note that thedraft..would provide that the interpretation of hardship isrnodif ied so that undue hardship means that the propertt could not
Planning Commission
March 14, 1990
Page 3
be put to a reasonable use because of its size, physical surroun-
dings, shape or topography. Reasonable use is further defined as
a use commonly made by other properties in the disLrict. Thisprovision would a1low the City Council to legitimately review the
surrounding neighborhood and grant such variances as may be
necessary to a1low development to occur in a manner that is con-sistent with the surroundings. The remaining conilitions would
ensure that variances are not a self-created hardship, that the
variance is not based upon monetary concerns and that the
variance woulil not be detrimental to other parcels in the area.
Thus we believe that this ailditional, latitude may be granted
while continuing to maintain the City standards with regards to
reviewing variances.
To facilitate a comparison between the
variance findings, these are reprinted
existing and proposed
be low.
Exi sting
The Board of Adjustments and Appeals shall not recommend and the
Council sha1l not grant, a variance unless they find thefollowing facts:
A. That the literal enforcement of the Ordinance would cause
undue hardship and practical difficulty.
B. That the hardship is caused by special conditions and cir-
cumstances which are peculiar to the land and structure
involved and which are not characteristic of or applicable toother lands of structures in the same district.
c. That the granting of the variance is necessary for the pre-
servation and enjoyment of substantial property rights.
D. That the special conditions and circumstances are not a con-
sequence of a self-created hartlship.
E. That the variance will not be injurious to or aclverselyaffect the health, safety or welfare of the residents of theCity of the neighborhooil wherein the property is situated andwill be in keeping with the spirit anil intent of the
Ordinance.
Proposed
A
or
variance may be granted by the Board of Adjustments and AppealsCity Council only if all of the following criteria are met!
That the literal enforcement of this Chapter woulil cause
untlue hardship. "Undue harilship" means the property cannot
be put to reasonable use because of its size, physical
A.
Planning Commission
March 14, 1990
Page {
surroundings, shape or topography. Reasonable use is a use
commonly made by other property in the district.
That the conditions upon which a petition for a variation is
based are unique to the parcel of lancl for which the varianceis sought and are not applicable, generally, to other prop-
erty within the same zoning classification.
C. That the purpose of the variation is not based exclusively
upon a desire to increase the value or income potential of
the parcel of 1and.
D. That the alleged difficulty or harilship is caused by this
ordinance and is not a self-created hardship.
E.That the granting of the variation wilI not be detrimental to
the public welfare or injurious to other land or improvementsin the neighborhood in which the parcel of land is located.
F.That the proposed variation ivill not impair an adeguate
supply of light and air to adjacent property or substantially
increase the congestion of the public streets, or increases
the danger of fire, or endanger the public safety or substan-tia11y diminish or impair property values within the neigh-
borhood.
Staff brought this item before the City Council at their February26, L990, meeting for discussion purposes. Our primary reasonfor doing this was to obtain their input since the main thrustof the ordinance hras to respond to issues that had been discussedwith them previously. we sought their ilirection as to rrhetherthe proposecl as "on-trackn and consistent with their intent.
There appeared to be substantial support for the proposal by mostof the Council members. !{inutes of the meeting are attached.
The Council did raise concerns over the wording in Section 20-58(a) defining what constitutes an 'undue harilship'. The originaldraft defined undue hardship as a condition where 'property can-not be put to a reasonable use because of its size, physical
surroundings, shape or topography' and further that 'reasonableuse is a use commonly made by other property in the district'.
The Council asked that staff provide further definition to avoidarbitrary decisions.
Staff $rorked with the City Attorney to develop a revisetl draft.
Our current proposal further defines reasonable use as a "usemaile by a majority of other property within 500 feet". We sup-port this concept believing that it will a11ow for the use of aoneighborhood stanalard" where that stanalard deviates from normal
ordinance requirements. The Carver Beach area is a primeexample. As we envision it, the applicant would be required toprovide data to support this finding.
B
Planning Co..i="ion
March 14, 1990
Page 5
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff is recommending the City Council adopt the attached ordi-
nance amendment.
ATTACHMEN?S
I
2
Ordinance Amendment
City Council minutes dated February 26, 1990
CAIV{PBELL, KNUTSON, SCOTT & FUCHS, P.A.
Anorrcys at Law
Itlarch 2, 1990
Thomas J. Campbell
Roger N. Knutson
Thomas M. Scorr
Gary G. Fuchs
James R. Walstor
Elhon B. Krrtsch
Dennis J. Unger
(6t21 456.9539
Facsimile (612) 456-9542
MAR 0 s i93l
CITY OF CHANHASSEI'I
Mr. Paul Krauss
Chanhassen City HaIl
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
147
55317
RE: Variances
Dear Pau I:
Enclosed please find a redraft .of the ordinance attached toyour February 20, 1990, Ietter to Dbn Ashworth pertaining tovariances. The only changes from your draft are in Section 3(c),
Secti.on 4, and Section 5(a).
Very truly yours,
CAI\,I soN, scoTT
CHS ,P
BY:
r N. Knutson
RNK: srn
Enclosure
Yankee Square Office III . Suite 202 . 3460 Washingron Dri're . Eagan, MN 55122
CITY OF CIIANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COT'NTIES, I,TINNESOTA
II{ ORDIIIAITCE AI,IENDINC CEAPTER 2 O OF TEE CEANEAAAEN
CITY CODE, TEE EONING ORDIITINCE, CONCERIIIT{G VARTANCES
Sectiop 1. Section 20-28(b) (2) of the Chanhassen City Codeis arnEidEd-E6-read:
To hear requests for variances fron the provisions of thisChapter which are not nade in conjunction with platting,site plan revj.err, conditional use or interin use permitapplication.
EectioD 2.The caption of Section 20-29 of the ChanhassenCity Code
86c.
Section 3.Section zo-lo to
is amended to read:
20-29. Board of AduustueDts Variance aDd Appeal
Procealures.
The Chanhassen City Code is amended by adding
read:
8ec. 20-30. Variance RequestESite PlaD R€viet,
Use PerEits.
ia coujunction rith P1atting,
Coadlltional Use aDd lDterin
from the provisions of this Chapter nade in conjunction withplatting, site plan revielr, conditional use and interim usepernits and variance from the subdivision ordinance sha1l befiled with the zoning adninistrator on prescribed forms. Afee, as established by the City Council, shall be paid uponthe filing of an application.
(a)Form i Fee.Appeals and applications for variances
(b)Hearinq.Upon the filing of such varianceapplications the zoning adninistrator sha1l set a tine andplace for a hearing before the Planning Connission on theapplication, rrhich hearing shall be held within thirty (30)
days after the fi1ing of the application. At the hearing thePlanning Cornmission shal1 hear such persons as wish to beheard, either in person or by attorney or agent. Notice ofsuch hearing sha11 be nailed not less than ten (10) daysbefore the date of hearing to the person who filed theapplication for variance, to each owrrer of property situatedwholly or partially withln five hundred (500) feet of theproperty to which the variance application relates. The
nanes and addresses of such orrners shall be deterrnined by
r03/02/90
oRDINANCE NO. _
THE CITY COI'NCIL OF T}IE CITY OT CIIANHASSEN ORDAINS:
(c)Reconnendation.Following the public hearing the
(d)Council Action.By najority vote, the City
(e)Action Without Decision. If no decision istransmiwithinfiLed w
gection a.Section 20-55 of the Chanhassen City Code is
anended to read:
a6c. 20-55. coDerally.
Sectio! 5.Section 20-58 of the Chanhassen City Code is
aroended to read:
aec. 2 0-58.
Planning connIEEion shalL reconmend to thL City Councif tfratthe variance be granted or denied. If the Planning
Commission recomends approval, it nay also reconmendappropriate conditions.
the zoning administrator from records provided by theapplicant.
csD.r8l Coudl.tl.oas for cratrtl.Dg.
Council nay approve or deny the variance request. Ingranting any variance the City CounciL Eay attach conditionsto ensure conpliance with this Chapter and to protect
adj acent property.
tted by the Planning Conmission to the City Councilsixty (60) days from the date a variance reguest isith the zoning adninistrator, the CounciL may takeaction on the request, in accordance sith the proceduresgoverning the Planning Commission, without further arraitingthe Planning Comlission,s reconmendation.
A variance fron this Chapter nay be requested only bythe orrner of the property or the otnerrs approvedrepresentative to which the variance would apply. A variancenay not be granted which would allow the use of property ina manner not perraitted rrithin the appticable zoningdistrict. A variance nay, horrever, be granted for ahetenporary use of a one-family dwelling as a two-famil.ydwelling. In granting any variance, conditions nay beprescribed to ensure substantial conpliance rrith LhisChapter and to protect adj acent property.
A variance nay be granted by the Board of Adjushnentsand Appeals or city council only if alt of the followingcriteria are Det:
(a) That the literal enforcernent of this chapter trrould
cause undue hardship. rrUndue hardshiprt neans the propertycannot be put to reasonable use because of its size,physical surroundings, shape or topography. Reasonable useincludes a use nade by a uaj ority of otlei property withinfive hundred (500) feet of it.
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(b) That the conditions upon hrhich a petition for avariance is based are unique to the parcel of land for whichthe variance is sought and are not applicable, generally, toother property within the sane zoning classification.
(c) That the purpose of the variation is not basedexclusively upon a desire to increase the value or incomepotential of the parcel of Iand.
(d) That the alleged difficulty or hardship is causedby this ordj.nance and is not a self-created hardahip.
(e) That the granting of the variance will not bedetrinental to the public rrrelfare or injurious to other landor irnprovements in the neighborhood in which the parcel ofland is located.
(f) That the proposed variation vriIl not irnpair anadequate supply of 1i9ht and air to adjacent property orsubstantially increase the congestion of the public streets,or increases the danger of fire, or endanger the publicsafety or substantially dininish or inpair property valueswithin the neighborhood.
sectioD 5. This ordinance shall be effective irnrnediatelyupon its passage and publication.
PASSED AND ADOPTED by the Chanhassen City Council thisday of , 1990.
ATTEST :
Don Ash$/orth, Clerk/Manager Donald J. Chniel, Mayor
(Published in the Chanhassen Villager on 1990. )
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city courcil !,beting - February 26, L99g
Oowritrran Johnson: ttas it plblished?
Oourrikuran Dirr.ler: !fr. f€ donrt have b g:b1ish
Ddl AshrDrth: lltris, as it alpears here ln front of
best of rr,1, burleilge.
Courrilrran Johnson: So re aouLd take ation?
Dn Ashmrth: you c.oufd take action if 3ou rnnted.
Italor Gr',ie1: Jjrr. r.entioned lGrcb 12th so letra go
it.
:tou I'as prblisheil to the
with that.
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BGRD OE EQTRLIZATIOI\I AND REl/IE{, SET m1t FOR FIISLIZI}re BSRD ACIION, CITY
IA}AGB.
El)n Ashrerti: I€'ve already set the first r€eting for t}le Board of edjust!€nts
to 6cur for Hay 15th. I think re had a EPeclal tjre on that. I reall:' do not
think that 1ou're goirg to have UEt lran:' People in on either the 15th or tlp
28th. I think last year rc had a nrrr,ber of PeoPIe in on tlp initial session but
tryr t}e tirte r€ got into the last neeting, tbe assessor had rtet with Fost of tle
tEople ard I think you rrere dotn to just the 2, 3, 5 People $ho atterded.
Accordingty, I think that te coulil take c:rre of tle secord rreetlrg as a IErt of
our regnrlar Courrcil agerda. I rcu1d look to l€:' 28th but in doirg that, I lould
Iike to be able to rork with the Mayor to detemine *rether or rDt an earl]'
start slas ,tecessary o! not. f $onrt know for another 30 days bor big that
agerda will be for !'tal' 28ttt and if possible, te shorrld be able just to start lt
at 7:36 ard be able to take care of all of our business ircIding the Board. Btt
if recessary, I'd like to rprk with hn ard potentlalU' set 6:39 or Tzgg if il
aPtrEars as though an earl:t start ls ,recessary.
OnrEi]rr'an Johnson: Are rp F€etirg ttte 28th? I thought that rEs, because
thatrs lEr.orial Elr. I tlnught re had rrdifiedl the rtronth of l,hY to first ant
thiril?
Courilrran Bogt: lb, orE of t!rcrr is right at the etd of the rotE:r.
t{a:ror Grhiet: Ihe 28t}t is l,tsiorial Ey. tbw about frEsda}, the 29ttt?
orrcitwran Dirder: tits already noved it to another date.
Don Astrrorth: I'I1 report to the Ciq, Courcil nEsda:' what nlght 1ou picked out
arri verify sith the Assessor if that nightr s oka:t witb hi&.
DISCUSSIOT REGARDII{E \TARIATS PREDURE AND REGI'IATIONS, PIA}DII}IG DIREIOR.
kul &ausss Or -veral ocaslons in t}le pst...
ta]ror ctrliel: Is thls brief Eul?
IEul lcauss: I think tle discrrssion rith it rr,ight be rather length]r.
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city oourcil lceting - F6ruar!, 26, L99A
l{ayor Ctr'.iel: I thought there rEs a 1ot of thought trrrt into this ard I
appreciate lour going throrrgh it.
Paul Krauss: Irbr re plttlng this on baslcal.ly I shouLd add as an inforrrational
Itsr, to get scrre direction frcrt Courril. Itrs not a r€tter that rerve discussetl
witb the Board of ldjusbents. I r€ntioned it to tlst tonight ard theyrre
interested in it obviously ard tlreyr re here. l,lor have re discussed at the
Planning Ccrrrr,ission scrte of the changes !€rre Proposirg $ould affect thsr, as
reIl. Basicalltr rerre brirgirg it to )tou ard if you teIl us },ou donrt want rrs
to proced with it, iEtll &op it but it alfEared to us ln the Fst that there
eErs sore desire to have sqte flexibilitrr on lt in the varlarre Procedure that is
not norr, aIlor.pd. lsrking with the Cit]' AttorrElt rE felt tttat t}lat coultl be
offered strile still keepirg with tle intent of the variarre Proc€dure atll not
violatlng it. lterer s been a Iot of discussion about state enabl ing leglslatlon
charglng how re conduct ourselves sith varlances ard it ra:t in fact do that but
itrs not clear to us at ttris point r*rat it's golng to do or v*en it's going to
do it. That enablirg act is kicked arourd nor for alrost 3 years ard it still
isnrt adopted and in tlre short session this year, itrs probably not likeI:, to
eitlrer. $hat r€ propose that lou look is revised larBlrage for the hardshiP
criteria. ltre other thing t}lat rE ProPose tlrat 1ou Imk at is aenilirg the
procedures in terrrs of rrho reviews variances ard llhen. lE fird ttat fo! nor:tal
var iarces , the one I s r.e had cn tonight . llhe hcr''e setback, the shed setback. . .
one or teD variances. r think it uftiratel], care dor*l to one variarse for a
road gratle but ttlat ras a variance tlre Planning Oorrr,ission atd cit:,Ourril
considered in the context of the subdivision. rf :'ou just take the variancre out
of context and [,rt it before the Board of edjustr€nts, I donrt know tbat yourre
giving that project a fair shake. llhere rray be ottrer things that you considered
in developing that recGn€nilation. A1so, therer s the ratter of tllre arrl how te
bourE€ a developer back ard forth or an irdividual back ard forth for that
tratter. In the case of Vinelanil Forest, it l€nt throrrgh tlE Plannirg
Cornission. Ihere $ere no variarces there. It went to the Citlt courcil. It
got bounced back becarrse rE l€re lookinrg at roads. A variance rrater ial ized. At
ttrat point re have to teIl t}e dwelotrnr, r,eII the City 6urci1 likes it but
re'll have to get the Board of Mjustrtent to atrPro\re lt so it goes back on one
of tlreir ageidas. Etankl:, the Proc€ss is not u Drkable but itrs a little
c1unlry ard other cq.r',unities have fourd rays to rrork arourd it ard r€ Propose
one of those m1p of doirq that. Ard again rE're just throwing this out for
discussion prrposes avd se'II take our cue frcrrr you on ttris.
l{ayor Ctrrriel: ltEnk lrou. r gIl]ess I have just one quick qrrestion. Roger. h}tEt
is the status of tlre variance thing that re dlscusseil scrre tirre ago with scrte of
the State changes that r€re going to be?
Ibger Knutson: Itrs part of the revritirg of tle entire lard use la$s. ItE
current draft, lt sits in ttre leglslature todal' tpuld not alIow flexibility'
I'hat lias in an earlier draft that has be€n noe, Ilt aside. tlote thatrs just golng
to hearing, will be 9oin9 to hearing. It hastrr t gorE to tearirg yet and how it
finally vorks ltrs m:/ out is anlrore's grss.
l.tayor Ctrrriel : rs there anpne lcbbldng for the lreviorrs , for the earl ier ore?
I
1 Roger Knutson: Yes. t€.
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Cit:' ouEil l€etirg - Februar:, 26; L99S
MalDr Chdel : ftrat i s urtry I ras askirg the question.
Faul Krauss: llErers also a nu.,ber of csrrtunities lobbyirg against it for
varlous reasonsi.
noger rutson: rhe o[y clrrrr€nt r have rrde, acting as a private individrral, lsthat I like to see cities have the discretion to set stardards that they thinkis srbject to their cuy.rrulit:r. I\bt that I thlnk the stardards for variancessbould be torBh or reak or anyEhing else. Just a oourtesl, to City Courcil toset those standarils. there are others nho say, anl rtve argrred at rergth aboutit, that therers a real need for State uniforxr.ity on this ilsue. lry r6sponse tothat bas been, an]rone uho has gone to rore than -me cit1, courcil "r,3 seei., f,",various citY courrils hardre variarces has realized thal tlrere is rp state
consisterrcy rEw
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an:'wa:'. E(c€pt scr€ city courcils tike to play b:r the rules anda lrore liberal interpretation of it.
&wciL'an Johnson: Ard after the rext election. that changes too.
OolnEilr€n Bo]tt: I'd like to r'entiql a cloq[e thirgs if I rtright. SCrediffioflties r see with t]is. Fitst, in pur aescription pauL of the process,thatrs exastUr ntat rer re -doing today. t0rat yourre proposirg. Wer-rtfrfrrgdoesnrt gp to the Board of edjustr€nt and AFpeals.
Paul xra'Es: Thatts true but rr11 leave it to Roger, tlc my the ordinare isstnEtured right now, it probabty should.
owEilran Bolt: Oka]r, but it doesnrt. So what lrou.re proposirg is to brirgthis in line with $bat Erre -ttrall:' doing?
Couvrilrr,an Jobnsst: yes.
CourEiLr,an b:rt: vtrich rtakes sense. Bolr, tJE desire to have scF€ kind ofreasonable frexibilierl thatrs very ta.ptirg. hlhat r ftrd ttough in soe of
lDur cs.'ents here. reasonabre use is firrther defined as trse c.qmonly rde tyother prolnrties in the district.
!{a1or Ch'del: tfiat tEge are :rou on Bill?
Councilran Boyt: I?tatrg [rage 3, the sectord ]lrc frcrr, the top. :Ihe questionthat r had Has, what if tte srrrourdlng properties all have ron-contolr,tng usesuttich in fact our ordlnarres sa:t that mn-confon'"1ng uses canrt t" p"nEt*t aif t},ey tnrn dorn or r*latever. ere E rearry gaintrq frexibirtty tierii
Council'an Johnson: It certainL, rpuld harre helpett us clean r4l Carver Barch.
Paur Krauss: llhe variarre rculd rot eply to t}|e rrse of tle roperty. rt lDuld
aEE I:' to starrlards applied to tlrat pro1Erty. Carver Beach iJa !ooa- ca* tnpoint. If everltbod:, is cr a 7 169i q,tare foot lot, 1ou pake ttE-re.w peison toc'crre in to travg a Ls,ggg sgTr? -foo} lot or- do pu tatce tlr,sr- 1.agg sir:are footlots into csrsiiteration? i think tlre ray these- are strrEtured it *ourt -
erE'ourage lrou to take that into consideratisr.
ourEilr€n Bo:rt B l€ll tlerets tlre advantage. I thlnk of t}le [ake Rileysitrratian tbat re just exterded here. lhere certainly ls an advantage -to say
64
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cit]' ourcil lrEeting - February 26, l99g
rell nobody on either side of tle slqr has sicb setbacks eitter so re're really
F:tting this house into me t}lat fits. alrl it rcu1d be nicre to have sqr€rE:, to
do that. I'r, just real correrned that r,.tEt re erd up doirg is creating, is rEcan't fix a probla.,.
CoutEilnan Johnson: It rakes lt rcrse.
Courciltran Bo:rt.: So that I s orE lssue ttrat I rd srrre llke ]rou to look at before
r€ FrrsrE this a ritrole lot further. Itren urrler ]rour propos€d point A at the
bottcrt of F9e 3, literal srforcsr€nt of this chapter rpuld cause tlrdue
harilship. (Jndue hardship rr€ans ttE prolErt:, cannot be trrt to reasonable use.
tfiall, to r€ that r€ans atrltthing can fit in tlrere because lou then go on to sa:,
reasonabLe use because of size, fh:piel surrourdirB r sha[E or to1rcgraptryr. Tell
rre scrething:rou left ort? I€rre reall:, saldng, if f canit alc *!at I want to do
with ng pieoe of pro[Erqr, th€n I can db it because thls sa]rs I can. Ihdue
harclship. Is it rrdue hardshlp if I can't have ny deck?
lblDr Chr.iel3 l{ight be.
@wEi lran Bo:'t: lEIl it lsnrt c'urrently.
Parrl lcauss: t{o, but I think ttris allous you tor lrourve got s<ercise this wt th
great caution. Itren r€ had that yariarre atd I forget *to the alplicant Es rr
Iake Riley, you ard I had a lorg discussiol about rihat Tas a reasonabLe use of
the proFrq'. In the staff report I hail reccnirended that it be approved because
1t ms reasonable to thtnk that they Ehould have a 3 beilrocrr, house sith a deck
sar€ as other people had m adjoining lots. I re$€r'ber orr€ilran Bolrt that !,ou
had sqre corcerns with that tlno4r arrt there rns another r'ethod fourd to alf,rorelt tut I think that tJlis rording rDuld allow us to take tiose thirgs into
consideration. If :rou think a reasonable use of a lot ls not the bare rrrlniFrrrrrr I
990 square foot residerce that satisfies brilding code but is ratlpr *Et the
norr'al Chantrassen resident pr&ablt, lns a right to expect to llve in. llhls
eDuld alLow you tlre l.atitrde to aEprove tlDse aorts of var iances.
Courciban Bo:'t: Y|EII ssr€rdhere ln trere, therer s tlD thlngs that happened wit}t
a variarEe at least. Ole of ttEr, is that re allow sar€bodt, to rvake reasonable
use of their protErty. the otlrer ore ls, rE protect surrourdlrg prolErt], orrners
by giving thsr, the protection of ou! zoning 1ass. All I'rr, sa:drg is that Eive
got enough probl€rs with orr current interpretatlon of our variarEe ordinance.
b row cqre in and say, any rrdr- hardsttip for anyt of tlEse reasons, I raintain
that the rEy A is written right rblr, anlthing can [Ersa.
oouvrcilrran Johnsdl: I donrt like ttte last entetE€ of A. Easonable use is a
ulie corront!/ rtade hy other prolErtles ln tte digtrlct. Bga1n1 look at Carver
Beach. rttat sa:'s rErre just goinS to FrEEtuate those mn<qn{r1:ring t}ttngs.
ccr.'.only tle sHs are r4> agalnst the protErty llre go the dE re're talklng
about todalr, urder thls rpuld 8a]t thatts fit€. In Carver Beacb there are ro
setlacks.
!,ta}or Ctr',ieJ.: Yeah, but at t}lat tJrre Jsy rfien they had tbose rlgbt at t}!e
ProPerq, Iine, it was PeErltted.
Courcih,an Johnson: Is it txrt ltrs rDw ron-conforr,lng so a tEw grry could ccrre
in ard ask to Frt it right at tlE Pro1Ertl, lirt today where $hat t€ struld be
65
city Ou:rciL lGetirg - February 26; l99S
mrkirq tomrcls is, rrfien sqr€bodlrt s sheilis brrrned donn, you donrt rebuildl itnithin tlp -tback. Kirri of a q.ary thirg to think rpw u,rt pu donrt lErtEtuatetle ron<onfont irg.
corrEilrran tsrloan: Brt in tiEt situation Ja:', it rculd take 200 years before
IEopIe could all bave their sh€ds off tte goprtlz line.
Cowcilrrran Jdrnson: Ch yeah.
&urEillr'an ncrlstan: So r*ryr fight that? lttr], mrry about it?
Coucilrran Johnson: If :rou rEver start. it will rever get there. If ],ou start,
:'our ve got to take tlre first step of every journey and this is a journey toErdsbrirging carver Beach into cqr{rl iarEe. yor- arrt r rrill not be aliie n'tei carver
Beach cures lnto cq',pr iance. lbbotllz wtlr be. rf E have a nrrrear disaster arriit clears out Carver Beactr ard gets replatted.
CourEilran Isrlsran: Dr,n on lake Riley. Skinl:, littIe lots.goirg to be in confon arre?
ourciLran Johnson: kobabl:, rDt.
Are ttE:t e\rer
ourEil$an Jotnson: Brt rE need to lrcep bringing ttEr, rp...
cowrilran lrbrlsr n: rtrr, not deferdirg this tling to the hirt lxit r.e need sqr.ediscrrssion ol it ard rtaybe tonight r s rpt ttte night.
t{a1or Grtiel: I think r*lat eE have to do is have a reasonable E:, to tr!, to
lclp ard assist lnople prt in so',e of their basic reeds that ttey- rmnt toir'.prane on their particular lot.
ourrilnan Jotrnson: rt has to be an irr4xovarent over. rn a non.<onfont ingdistrict, ntrich r think re _can call serreral Frts of this toun as ron<onf5n,irgdistrict<. rhe r.ajority of tre houses in the aistrict are mn-contoEJng... ur:,variarce has to be an irrprova,ent over the general distrlct.
llalor Grrrlel : r t}llnk laol tr+ a rot of tlought into ttris artt r reall!,, as rrrentioned before, I cqrrerd hirt for it. Ma]rbe scre thlrgs that are rot'trnrfectin tere but nqEtheless therers been a lot 6t Uougt t.
owrilrran Isrkran: In 400 !,ears?c.cFbire tlE lots.
Not unless aU tlE houses hrrn dot'l and the:'
Beadl a nrtber of years. I!IJ.
hold b tle clty setbacks andt
dowr there in Carver Beatr
cotdng ln arld I gnEss I thtnk
l{illard Johnson: tErve been rcrkirg ln the Carver
go a1on9 with Jay. t€'\re be€n tryirg to rrake this
-I agree with Ja]r. t{s aren.t golrg to get tte lggtbrt E'te yorkt rs at the placles tfnt are graduaU!,e can do it prettg gootl rith $hat t€.!re got.
ourcilrtan Johnsot'l ! Itve seen lr,provsr€nt tn t}!e little tire t}tat l.ve beenlse.
Willard Johnson: yourll get me llke r€ got doqln there in f.ake Rile!,occasionall:, but r feer terre doirg pretty good wlth what yE,ve got lrd 1ou,re
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just going to have to rDrk each ore irdividualll,. TtEtrs frcr, rqr experiercebeing or the Board. r rearize scrre of these pople have got a hard iituationtxrt ep get a ? rg6g foot 1ot, scr€tift.es rE telt tlsr, hey reet ciqr setbacks arrlby golly t}tey do it. It cleans q, an area. Becarrse re Ua a guy, thut grryr thatse've been fighting these last 2 r,eetirgs because everlthirg goel in CarverBeach. rhat isnrt t}!e txuth. r realize sor,ebody throLs rp a stred rithout theCiq/ catchirg it anl lourre goirg to have that ailptace lri tfn citl'. I can stpvr
!,ou a lot ard I wish t}te CowEil muLd all 9o anl look at it. Itr; just dorrfrot rre in the g350,0gg.Og bracket I called CiW HaIl m it. tiE'v6 qot aloophore in our o*r ord inance. }ry reighbor ]as discusseil it and his c5rrsinbuilds donn behird the cathollc church in E<celslor or shorenood or whatever itis.
City ourcil fGeting - Februarl, 26; t99g
Corrrcilrran Johnson: St. Jotnrs.
Willard Johnson: yeah, behirri St. Jotmts. E *ys, look at ttEt lot right on
Apple Road or YosEr.ite. Ihat house is bullt right on the creek. I told htr,
about it anJ he said rel} go arourd and lmk r.itrere the drivemay goes in. Ihatdriva*ay is one car nidth goirg in so I called Cler [IalI ard tt*i ""f,s rell it
borders an t$o streets. I wish $te Oourcil rould all 90 and look at tlat ure.Itrs a pie shaE ed lot ard rihere he drives in, rrhich l muld c-onsider his front
on the cul4e-sac, can barellr get in so m ray ln tle rcr1d reach the part on
Yossr.it€.
Courcilran Johnson: Yes, that is a lophole in our ordinanc.e.
Willard Johnson: lthere the creek is, lrou canrt filt the creek. So I guess
r*tnt Irn, saying is hy, he dontt have t}le frotage sr ttre cu1-de-sac so I ho[E
:rou can clean up lour ordinarces on lrour de\relogr,ents.
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Courci lnan Johnson: In this case, on the side t}ere is street frontage. fhisis before taulrs tire ard hers sitting there looklrg. Or the side that this lotactually has street frontage, so lt has street frontage. Itrs got 9g foot ofstreet frontage. It's non-acressible because thereis a 4g f.6t deep creekthere.
hul lGauss: ltterer s a situation sirr,iliar to that in Tirtberuood. ...privatedrivevay because the public platted road lsn,t bullt ard !,ou can,t access it.
Cor:rcilnan Jotnson: Yeah, I think f argrEd for both of tlrose. I tmon I argrred
on the one over there b[r.
!'la1or Ctr'"iel : Scrr,e direction I think Paul is lookirg for frqt us.
Paul ltauss: Ird like to knor', if 1ou rant us to [rrr61E lt?
@urci1rElan Dlr;ler: Yes, I iEnt ],ou to Frrsue lt.
l,h1or Ch.,ieJ.: Yeah. Ird like to see it [,llrsu€d. At teast thatr5 rrr!' opinion.
CourEiltr,an Bo]rt: $rre pointed oltt sclr€ areas that I think are real problarr
areas with it.
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OounciLran Johnson: Yeah.
stuff.
I think it's going to be too loose r.rith scre of this
Corrcilsran DirJer: I€ rr,ight Ent to tighten sare q) but E do rEnt to give
scre rrote breathing root .
&urrilrtan Ylcrkran roveil, &urrilsran Dirr.ter econcled to adjourn tjte leeting.
111 voted in favor ard tlE rtotion carrled. Itre rteetirg Es adjourned.
srhdtted try bn Astrirorth
Ciqr Hanager
kelEred bE, lbnn Bteirrr
68
, City Oourcit lEeting - F&ruary 26; t99S
CITY OF
EIIINHISSEN
P.C. DATE:
C.C. DATE:
CASE NO: 90
90
Prepared by:
Mar. 21, 1990
Apr. 9, 1990
-3s-25
A1
ite Plan
ubdivis ion-Jaff/v
STAFF REPORT
Fz
C)
=LL
1) Preliminary Plat/Final plat to replat tiro lots and
one outlot of Chan Lakes Business Park 2nd Addition
PROPOSAL:
880 Lake DriveTOCATION:
APPLICANT:Robert Worthington
Opus Corporation
9900 Bren Roaal East
P.O. Box 15
Irlinnetonka, MN 55343
2, Site Plan Review for a 481200
Of f ice,/Manuf acturing Facility square foot
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USB:
IOP ,
5.725
N/a
Industrial office Park
acres
N-
s-
E-
w-
IOP; RR and Instant Web
IOP, Empak Corp.
IOPi Rosemount and Lake SusanIO, Lutheran Church of the Living Christ
WATER AND SEWER:Available to the site
PEYSICAL CEARAC.: vacant 5.7 acres : The Roberts Automaticsite rras altered alue to the construction of
Lake Drive and the extension of a irater and sewer line which is
located to the west. of the site. There is virtually no significant
vegetation on this parcel except for a single 30" oak tree found near
the east property Iine. The site slopes clown from a 970' elevation a
the noltheast corner atljacent to the iR tracks to 912r at the south-
west corner adjacent to Lake Drive. The area subject to the sub-division request is larger and extenals east including the site of the
Lutheran Church of the Living Christ and land that is being acguired
by the city for drainage purposes.
2000 LAND USE PLAN !Industrial
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Roberts Automatic
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 2
PROPOSAL/SIJIT{I{ARY
The applicant is requesting site plan and prelininary plat approvalto construct 48,200 square foot office/nanufacturing facility for
Roberts Autonatic. Roberts Automatic is a nanufacturer of scre!,
machine parts. There are two applications being considered. Thefirst being site plan approvaL for the Roberts Automatic building.
The second being a related request for a subdivision approval thatwiff have the affect of transferring property between the Roberts
Automatic site and the Church of the Living Christ to the east andalso result in the creation of a snall lot at the east end of thechurch property that is going to be acquired by the city fordrainage purposes.
The site plan request is a fairly sinple one. The building issituated parallel to the street with a parking area located in thefront and loading docks in a sonewhat concealed location on thewest side of the building. Plans also illustrate a concept for an
181400 sguare foot expansion to the building. No approvals arebeing sought for the expansion at this tirne and additional siteplan approval wiII be required for it in the future. In generalthe site plan is well designed. Access, grading, drainage andutilities pose no unusual problens although a nunber of detailnodifications have been requested by city staff. Appropriateconditions are provided to resolve these issues. Staff has raised
some concerns with the quality of the architectural design of thebuilding. The building is constructed of tip-up concrete panels,
nany of which have littIe or no architectural adornment as requiredby the site plan ordinance. We have requested some ninornodifications to improve this and further note that the site is ina relatively secluded location. Site landscaping is generally ofa high quality although again, some ninor nodifications have been
reconmended by staff, in particular to inprove screening of thetruck Loadin!, area.
The subdivision request is also a fairly sinple one. Only ninornodifications have been requested to insure that all theappropriate easements are provided.
There are no varlances attached to either the site plan orsubdivision requests. Staff is reconmendlng that both the reguestsbe approved subj ect to appropriate conditions.
GENERAL SITE PIAN/ARCHITESTT'RE
The site ls located to the north of Iake Drive which services the
Enpak and the Lutheran Church of the Living Christ sites. Slteplanning is fairly straight fon ard. The building is situatedparalLel to Lake Drive where access is gained. Parking is Locatedto the front rrith a truck loading area found on the west side vhere
Roberts Autonatic
l,larch 21, 1990
Page 3
it is screened frorn off-site views by the building, railroadtracks, landscaping and by a change in elevation fron Lake Drive.
B-ttilding architecture is functional but not particularlylnteresting. In our opinion, the quality of the delign is weLlbelow the standard set by Enpak to the sest and by the church tothe east. The proposal ca1Is for the use of painted texturedprecast panels for the nain office area with solid paneJ.s usedelsewhere. The nev slte plan ordinance stipulates that the panelsare required to have sone sort of architectural treatnent such astexturing or patterning. In our opinion, the proposed 2rr revealline in this area is inadeguate and plans should be revised to usetexturing, exposed aggregate or other treatnent.
The rooftop equipnent is proposed to be screened by naterialsidentical or siullar to the waII panel finish. ttris is anlnnovative approach that avoids the use of rooftop fences that, inour opinion, are unsightly as well as being a rnaintenance problen.
On the east side of the building is a proposed outdoor eating area.This area is to be screened by trees to separate it fron theparking area located on the south portion of the site.
Plans iLlustrate a conceptual 18r4OO square foot expansion on theeast side of the building. The expansion is generally consistentrrith the overall site plan. Staff is concerned that the 3On oaktree that is the only one on the site is like1y to be lost due tograding. . Amended site plan approval will bJ reguired wheneverconstruction is proposed.
The applicant has not provided any inforroation on or shotrn alocation for trash storage on the site. Unless otherwise approved,t e wilL assume that aII trash storage t i11 be accoiriodatedinternal ly.
PARKTNG/ INTERTOR CTRCUIATION
Parking requireuents for the office portion of the building is 3parking stalls per 1,OOO sguare feet- rrhich amounts to 19 pirkingstalls. The Danufacturing facility is proposed to acconm6date in-aximum-of 50 eDployees. Fifty parking JtaIIs will be required aslhe parking ordinance calls for one parking stall per einployee.The rrarehouse and shipping area has a total -area of -,,Z,}SO' squarefeet which translates to L2 parklng stalls as the ordinancerequires one parking stal1 per i,OOO square feet. Total requiredparkLng stalls are 91. The. appticant- is proposing tzo pirfintstalls which exceeds the ninimum requirernents an-d wrriitr witiaccomnodate the future expansion. Three handicapped parking stallsare also provided.
Roberts Autonatic
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 4
USE
office
Manufacturing
warehouse/
shipping
PARKING TABLE
6,27O s.f .
29,580 s.f .
12 r 350 s.f .
PARKING
tal1,/1000 s. f .
ta11/enployeetall/l,o00 s.f.
AREA TOTAL
3a1s1s
19
50
L2
Required total
Provided total 81 Etalls
125 staIls
Based upon this analysis, staff concludes that parking requirenents
have been satisified.
The islands in the parking lot have created an issue of concern tothe Fire Departrent as the proposed site plan does not show theangle of the curves and turning DoveDents by fire trucks rnight behindered. Staff is reconnending the applicant revise the plan as
necessary for approval by the Fire Uarshal.
ACCESS
The plans proposed ?uvo 24 foot wide driveway access points ontolake Drive. It is anticipated that the rresterly access will beused by trucks destined to the loading docks. The Engineering
Departnent is requesting that the westerly access be rridened to 36feet to acconnodate truck turning novenents.
I,ANDSCAPTNG
The landscaping plan is generally well conceived although it isdeficient in several areas. The Lake Drive frontage has plantings
along the boulevard with parking areas screened by the change inelevation betlreen the street and parking lot. We also believe that
landscaping in front of the building and in the parking tot is well
designed.
As part of their arrangenent with the church, additional screening
comprised of spruce trees will be located on the adjacent churchproperty. This is being done for several reasons. Due to grades
and the Location of trees on the church site, i.t is believed thatthe screening lrould be more effective in this area. In addition,it tends to free up the area desl.gnated for the future expansion ofthe Roberts Autonatic buildlng. Staff supports the concept but isproposing to require the creation of a landscaping easement overthe church site to allow Roberts to install and naintain the trees.
Roberts Autonatic
Uarch 21, 1990
Page 5
We believe the screening of the truck loading area isinadeguate. While we note that the building and site grades will
obscure sone views of this area, rre believe a Dore active progranis required. To this end rre are proposing that the size of the
Epruce trees be increased fron 5r8 to 10-12 | and that the trees
extend up to the northwest corner of the loading area.
Staff ls sonewhat concerned over screening the north side of thebuilding fron Hrry. 5. It is not possible to provide signficantIandscaping in this area due to the location of a power lineeasement. However, we belleve that direct views of the site frorothe highway will be liuited by distance, grades, the location ofthe railroad track erobankment and by trees located on churchparcel .
Under the revised site plan ordinance financiaL gruarantees forlandscaping and other site inprovenents are required.
LIGHTING
Lighting locations are i}tustrated on the plan but fixture tl4re
needs to be specified. Only shielded fixtures are allowed and theapplicant must denonstrate that there is no more than 0.5 footcandles of light at the property line.
SIGNAGE
Stop signs nust be posted on the driveway access to Lake Drive.
Signage plans should be subDitted for staff review and city pernit.
GRADING/DRAINAGE
The site generally drains to the south on Iake Drive. The raterflou is intercepted by storn sewer which eventually drain into thecityra storm sewer on Lake Drive and along the westLrly side of theproperty. - Additional catch basins are re-quired to in€ercept stornrunoff prior to it draining out on Iake Drive. An off-site pondingarea which was constructed in conjunction with the Iaka Driv;project, rrill be utilized to handle the water that nil.I begenerated.
The najority of the site is proposed to be graded. Fairly Eteepslopes will be created along the northerly port,ion of the sitewhere erosion control blankets are regui.red to stabilize the slopeand rnininize erosion. Erosion control is al,so required along tlenortheast and east side of the parking 1ot. Erosion controL iencels also proposed along the southerly and westerly perimeters of thelot. Tl4)e III erosion control is to be used instead of theproposed l\T)e II.
The applicant is also proposing to grade the northerly portion ofthe site where gas and porrer line easements are located. Beforesuch action takes place, the applicant must obtain appropriatepernits from the respective utilities.
PUBLIC UTTLITIES
City water and serrer are available on Lake Drive. fwo firehydraTts are proposed. The Fire Departnent is requestingadditionaL data regarding water flow in the two hydrants on deadend nains versus two hydrants on a G inch looped system.
The rresterly proposed parking and landscaping encroach upon a 25foot wide drainage and utility easenent recently acquired inconjunction with the Lake Drive proj ect for extension of a 36 inchstorm serrer along the westerly coutnon lot line. The Engineering
Department is requesting that this encroachnent be pernitted underthe condition that the applicant enters into a hold harnless
agreement with the city to acknowledge the city will not be heldresponsible for any danage or restoration costs to the parking lotor landscaping while perforning naintenance to the storm sewerline. The plans should be revised to indicate concrete curb andgutter around the parking lots or driveways.
Roberts Autonatic
l[arch 21, 1990
Page 6
COUPLTANCE TABI,E . IOP DISTRIET
Ordinance Proposed
Building lleight 4 stories 1 story
Building Setback N-10, E-lOr N-5Ot E-191ts-30r w-10r s-100t w-115t
Parking staLls 81 stalls 126 stalls
Parking Setback N-N/A E-10t N-N/A E-421s-3or w-lor s_3or E_lO I
Iot Coverage 70t 43t
Iot Area 1 acre 5.725 acres
Variances nequired - none
Roberts AutoDatic
llarch 21, 1990
Page 7
PRELII.{INARY PI,AT
The applicants are requesting prelininary plat approval toredistribute land to facilitate devetopnent. es part of the p1at,land wiII be exchanged between the Roberts Autonratic site and
church site. In addition, a snall 1ot si}l be created at the east
end of the church parcel. This is being acquired by the city fordrainage purposes. Designated as Ict 3 on the plat it should beredesignated as an outlot since it is unbuil.dable. An access
easenent for the church driveway should also be provided. Lastly,a 25 foot wide drainage and utility easement over the west side ofLot 1, Block 1 is required. In other respects, the ptat isacceptable. The Roberts Automatic site will be required to pay apark dedication fee at the tine building perrnit is requi.red.
STAFF RECOUUENDATIO}I
Staff recoDDends that the Planning Conmission adopt the followingnotion:
rrThe Planning Connission reconmends approval of Site plan #9O-3 andPrelininary and Final Plat #9o-2 as shown on the plat dated Irtarch5, 1990, subj ect to the following conditions:
1. Revise architectural plans so that exterior va11s havetextured surfaces or exposed aggregate patterns. provide
infonnation showing location of trash storage on the site.Provide final details on rooftop screening for approval bystaff.
2.
3
The applicant provide a detailed signage plan and apply forcity pernits. Post stop signs on the driveway accesJ to f,afeDrive. Provide detaiLs on site lighting for Lpproval by citysta ff.
Revise the landscape plans as reconmended in the report toimprove screening of the truck loading area. providL staffwith a detailed cost estinate of landscaping to be used incalculating the required financial guarantees. Theseguarantees must be posted prior to building pernit issuance.
Revise the plat to designate Lot 3 as an outlot and provide anaccess easelrent over the church driveway. An additional 25foot wide drainage and utility easement over the west side ofLot 1, Block 1 is required. The Roberts Automatic site shalLpay lhe required park dedication fee at the tine buildingpermits are requested.
4.
6
7
8
Roberts Autonatic
Ilarch 21, 1990
Page 8
5
9.
10.
11.
The applicant shall obtain and conply with alL conditions ofthe watershed District permit.
The westerly driveway access shall be uidened to 35 feet andthe apron area shall be concrete instead of bituminous.
Revise internal circulation as required to facilitate access
by city fire equipnent, for approval by the City Fire ltarshal.
The applicant shall enter into an agreeDent with the City toallow construction of the parking lot and landseaping vithinthe Cityrs 25 foot drainage and utility easeEent on the westside of the property and releasing the city from anyrestoration obligation for the parking lot and landscaping inthe event sewer repairs are necessary.
The applicant shall add additional catch basins to interceptstorn runoff before draining out onto Iake Drive and at theentrance to the truck loading dock area. The storm 6euer
systen shall be redesigned for a 10 year storm fregu.ency andrevised drainage calculations provided to the city. 8-612concrete curb and gutter shall be constructed around allparking lots and driveways.
Appropriate gas and power company pernits shaIl be obtainedprior to grading within the utitity easements along the north
and east corner of the site.
Type III erosion control shall be used along Lake Drive and
added to the northeast and east corner of the front parking1ot. Strau bales and silt fence shall be deployed to protect
CB-2 fron silt and sedinent. Wood fiber blankets sha1l. beinstalled along the distrubed side slopes in the northeast
corner of the site. After sodding, the erosion control shalLbe relocated to the sod/seed line. The southwest corner ofthe site should be sodded to the north edge of hte parkingIot.
No utility cuts BhaII be allowed to Lake Drive nithout the
approval of the City Engineer.
ATTAC}IMENTS
Reduced copy of site plan, grading plan, landscape pIan, floorplan and building elevations.Letter from Opus dated February 19, 1990.
I{eno fron City Engineer dated }larch 14, 1990.
Iteno fron I'ire Marshal dated February 23, L99O.Site pLan and preliroinary/f inal plat dated Uarch 5, 1990.
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A OPUS COBPORAT. .{
DESTGNERS BUIL0tRS' DEVtTOPEffS
g)0 opus Cenier
qlm 8Gn Boad East
Minnetonta. Mrnnesota 553{3
(6121336-4444
Maalilq Address
P0 Box 150
Minneapolis. Minnesota 55440
February 19, 19 90
Mr. Paul Krause
Director, Department of City Planning
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 5 5317
Re: Roberts Automatic Products Facility
Dear Paul:
opus Corporation is pleased to submit, in behalf of Roberts Automatic
Products, Inc., the enclosed application and sets of drawings for the
replatting and siEe plan review and approval of a 48,2OO sq. ft.
office/manufacturing faci-lity for Roberts Automatic Products to be
constructed on a 5.7 acre undeveloped site in our Chan Lakes Business
Park.
The subject site is locaced in our Chan Lakes Business Park (see the
attached site location map.) It adjoins the Lutheran Church of the Living
Christ property. The or^,ners of Roberts and the Church have worked out an
exchange of portions of their property to eliminate some inefficiencies
found with the parcel configuration of the existing site (Lot 3, Block 2,
Chanhassen Lakes Business Park, 2nd Addition) proposed for the subject
facility. The exchange and property reconfiguration is reflected in the
proposed replatti.ng request which is a part of the enclosed application.
Robe rt s
founded
machine
Roberts
people.
Automatic Products is a third generation family owned business
in 1947. Roberts Automatic Products supplles quality screw
parts to many of the nationr s most' respected manufacturers.
has been located in Edina for over 20 years and enploys over 90
The enclosed plans show the character and design of the proposed Roberts
AuEomaEic Products building. It will be a decorative precast building
wiEh an appearance sirnilar to and compatible with other offlcel
nanufacturing buildings constructed by Opus in Chan Lakes Business Park.
The 48,20O sq. ft. initial phase of construct.ion will contain 41 ,93O sq.
ft. of manu fac turi ng /wa rehous a and 6,270 sq, ft. of office space. The 5.7
acre site contains sufficient space to accommodate a future addition to
the building if and when such an expansion is warranted. 0n site parking
has been arranged to provide sufficient spaces which exceed the on site
parking standards of the city.
opus and Attrlates in Minneapolis . Chrcago . Phoenrx - MihMaukee . Tampa . funsaclla
A
Mr. Paul Krause
February 16, 19 90
Page 2
In our opinion, the site and building plans comply lrith the development
standards and criteria of the IOP-Industrial Office park District
underlying the site, and therefore, should cause few problems in terms ofcity approva 1 .
Our interest is to begin grading work on
of lhe new building is being targered
Therefore, your cooperation in helping
Planning Commission and City Council approval will be most appreciated.
Call me at 936-44L9 if you have questions orinformation. Thank you.
have need of any additional
Sincerely,
Robert A. Worthi n8t on ,AI CP
Executive Director
Governmmental Affairs
RAI.I/kk
Enclosures
the site by mid-Apri1. Occupancy
for the first part of October.
us neet the desired schedule for
We would appreciate having the enclosed application, plat and related siteplan drawi.ngs processed and scheduled for the l{arch 21 meeting of thePlaning Cornmission and April 9 meeting of the Ciry Council for
consideration.
I
'I
CITY F
EHff{H[S$Et{
I,IEITIORANDUIT1
TO:
FRO}I:
DATE:
SUBJ :
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Paul Kruass, Planning Direc
Gary Warren, City Engineer
March 14, 1990
Preliminary Plat Reviet for Chanhassen Lakes BusinessPark 6th Addition and Site Plan Reviei, for Roberts
Automatic ProductsFile No. 90-7 Land Use Review
Upon review of the preliminary plat for Chanhassen Lakes BusinessPark 6th Addition dated December L, 1989, prepared by Sunde LandSurveying, Inc., and site plans for Roberts Automatic products
dated February 19, 1990, prepared by Opus Corporation, I offerthe following comments and recormrendations :
Preliminary Plat
with the acld i t ion
1y 25 feet of Lotthe church access
of a drainage1, Block 1 and
over Lot 3.
The plat overall appears acceptable
and utility easement over the westera driveway easement to be given for
Site PIan - Sheet PAI
northerly along the common lot line. Due
sewer line, it is necessary to maintain a
We feel that the parking lot and landscapithe easement area conditioned upon the apphold harmless agreement with the City to a
The plans propose two driveway access points onto Lake Drive.
Both accesses are proposed 24 feet wide. Due to anticipatedtruck traffic, the westerly access should be wicieneil to 36 feetto accommodate truck turning novements anal paved with a concreteapron., .':.. ......
_ '.
The plans propose a parking lot to be constructed rithin 10 feetof the westerly property 1ine. This will encroach upon theCity's 25-foot wide drainage and utility easement. This drainageand utility easement was recently acquired in conjunction withthe Lake Drive project for extension of a 36-inch storm sewer
to
25-
ng
1ic
ckn
the depth of thefoot wide easement.
can encroach uponant entering into a
orrledge the Cityrri11 not be responsible for any damage or restoration costs tothe parking Iot or landscaping while performing maintenance tothe storm sewer 1ine.
Paul Krauss
ltarch 14, 199 0
Page 2
The plans fail to indicate concrete curb and gutter
parking lots or driveways. A11 paved areas should
concrete curb and gutter (8-612 or better).
around the
inc lude
crading,Utility and Erosion control - Sheet PCI
The plans propose conveying storn drainage through a series of
storm sewer pipes which eventually tie into the Cityrs storm
sewer in Lake Drive and along the westerly side of the property.
Additional catch basins sha11 be added on the driveway entrancesto intercept storm runoff prior to it draining out onto Lake
Drive and at the entrance to the truck loading lot which shoultl
drain to the westerly storm sewer. The overall storm sewer
systen has been designed for a S-year storm frequency. City
codes require storm serrers to be designed for a l0-year storm
frequency. In conjunction with the Lake Drive project, a largeretention pond was constructed Eo accouurodate storm runoff from
Lake Drive and the adjacent properties. Therefore, on-site
retention of storm wat.er will not be required.
The majority of the site is proposed to be graded except for the
northeast corner which contains the majority of the trees.Fairly steep slopes will be created from the site grading along
the northerly portion of the site similar to hpakrs sitedirectly to the west. In these areas, erosion control blankets
are to be used to stabilize the slopes and minimize erosion. A
row of I\T)e III erosion control shall be added along the
noltheast and east side of the parking lot and CB-2 shall be pro-
tected with silt fence and straw bales. After sodding, the ero-
sion control shall be relocated to the sod/seed line.
The plans propose lYpe II erosion control fence along the
southerly and westerly perimeters of the lot. The plans indicate
the erosion control will be installed prior to conmeDcement of
any site grading. IYpe III erosion control shall be used along
the Lake Drive frontage instead of lYpe II.
Where grading is proposed within the gas and power line ease-
ments, appropriate permits shal1 be obtained from the respectiveutilities prior to grading and complied with.
Sanitary Sewer and water
Municipal water and sanitary sewer service is available from LakeDrive via existing Etubs. No utility cuts shall be made to Lake
Drive without the approval of the City Engineer.
Recommendat i ons
1 The
the
appl ican t
l{atershed
shall obtain and
District permit.comply with all conditions of
Paul Krauss
March 2, 199 0
Page 3
3
4
A driveway easement shall
church access.
be provided across Lot 3 for the
The westerly driveway access shall be widenetl to 3G feet andthe apron area sha1l be concrete instead of bituminous.
The applicant sha1l enter into an agreement with the City toa1low construction of the parking 1ot and J.andscaping withinthe Cityts 25-foot ilrainage and utility easement on the westside of the properLy and releasing the City from any restora-tion obligation for the parking lot and landscaping in theevent sehrer repairs are necessary.
The applicant shall add ailditional catch basins to interceptstorm runoff before draining out onto Lake Drive and at theentrance to the truck loading dock area.
The storm sewer system shall be redesigned for a 10-year stormfrequency and revised drainage calculations provideil to the City.
8-612 concrete curb anal gutter sha1l be constructed aroundall parking lots and driveways.
Appropriate gas and power company permits sha11 be obtainedprior to grading within the utility easenents along the northand east corner of the site.
5
6.
7.
I
9
1,0. Type III erosion control shal1 be used aLaddeil to the northeast and east corner ofIot. Straw bales and silt fence shall be
CB-2 fron silt and secliment. Wood-fiberinstalled along the disturbed side stopes
on9
rh
de
blain
Lake Drive ande front parking
ployed to protect
nkets shall bethe northeastcorne! of the site. After sodding, the erosion control shallbe relocated to the sod/seed line. The southnest corner ofthe site should be soclded to the north edge of the parking Iot.
1I . No utility cuts sha1l be allowed to Lake Drive without theapproval of the City Engineer.
12. Revised plans shal1 be submi ttett to the City Engineeraddressing these conditions of approval before a buildingpermit will be i ssued.
ktm
c: Dave Hempel, Sr. Engineering Technician
2.A 25-foot utility and drainage easement sha11 be dledicated onthe plat over the existing storm sewer along the westerly 1otline of Lot 1, Block 1, Chanhassen Lakes Business park GlhAddition.
l
CITY OF
EH[NH[ESEN
ilErr{ORArrDUll
TO. 7o AruL OSAeJL, Senloz ?lerulut
Wi\
FROrr{: , u}L Li-U.{bL, Fittz t{a4.ruZ {t\0
DATE: Febutotty 23, 199 0
SUEr: Si*z PtAn R e-vi-eut *90-3
C omnen*a and,/ oz ttzc,ommo.lt da*iotl..l :
1 . Ha-v e *JLe- d.eve-0-opc,tt' t ulghLeuLa pzov i-d.e Fi.Le. lAa^atlo-L ttti-t)Lualez 4!-ow d.a.*L in zel etencz Lo *)t z *tto l2l on l-i,t-e 4i-*chgdta*tt; L,e-., t)te 2 bgfur&*{ ott d.ead. qn ntcj-rlA v utauA 2
h.gfu,tn*A otL o. 6" !-ooped A!.tLun,
2. P+ov)Le ,anfutA ut*t f,ott po.zlz-ing 2.oL Ltlafu,t Lo a.lLoot d.alv e
*lt:t ougtt" 4oz Fi.z.e Depoa*tnetl v chicLe-l ,
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR I,IEETING
FEBRUARY 2I, L99g
Cha irrian Conrad
MEMBERS PRESENT:
MEMBERS ABSENT:
STAFF PRESENT:
PI anner
called the rreeting to order at 7:35 p.r'..
TiFr Erhart, Steve EF,r'rings, Annette Ellson and Ladd Conrad
Brian Batzli, Jir., Wildermuth and Joan Ahrens
PauI Krauss, Director of PLanning and Jo Ann Olsen, Senior
PUBLIC HEARING:
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO FILL IN A PORTION OF A CLASS
ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED AT 7067 CHEYENNE TRAIL,
LOTUS IAKE BETTERMENT ASSOC IATION.
A WETLAND LOCATED
CHARLES HIRT,
Public Present:
Narrle
A1 & Carol Anderson
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Chairr',an Conrail called the public
hearing to order.
Al Anderson: Is this a hearing that lrou're proposing, I want to rrnderstand
this better. The City or the Council or this cor'r,i ttee is proposing thatthe onl]t changes to be r,ade out there is the enlargeFrent of the restorationof this area to r,arshland. Thatrs the proposal?
Conrad: The proposal is to restore i
],eah. And then to allow a boartlwalkdock. An], other coFaients?
t back to $rha t i t
through that that
originally was,gives access to the
Erhart r,oved, En,ni i ng s secontleil
favor and the rtotion carried.
Erhart: Do )rou have anlt idea
owners, did thelt work togetherit was?
to close the prrblic hearing. AII voted in
The public hearing rras closed.
1n
1n
Olsen: I knoe, that the 2 lot ovrners did
the hor,eowner's association also when it
that. Irn, not exactly srrre if they did
apparent that that had also been filled.
tern,s of, in the first place, the 3 lotfilling this thing in? Is that the wal'
and it appeared that the orrtlot,
was happening did it along with
it all together. ft becar,e
Erhart: So there's 2 hor",es.
Frdrsh, how did they use it as
on the beachlot, what was it? If that was a
a beachlot area?
Ol sen :How they had access to the dock?
Planning
Febr rra r].
corrr,ission
2L, t99A -
Meeting
Page 2
Olsen: There nust have
happened before that. . .
been son,e sort of dock. Again, what exactl]'
Erhart:get out
ol sen :
were the other 2to those docks?
docks there before thel, built also? How did thev
Erhart:here?
I donrt see the other two either.
a neighbor ?
live on the other side of the...
Ortr lot is directllt opposite, across the creek.
docks there before they f illeil?
that wer re aware of.
Not that we're aware of.
conceiveable that the docks were installed after
Conrad: That rrould 5e a gooil guess, !res.
Is the appl icant
I donrt see therr.
Erhart: Are vou
AI Anderson: we
Carol Anderson:
Erhart: Were the
A1 Anderson: Not
Carol Anderson:
Erhart: So it'sthe fill -
thev al id
Conrad: This particrrlar one, the hor,eowners of this particular lot thatwerre looking at has alwalrs had a dock but it was not a very irtrproved pieceof land and I think they were literally tagging onto the other orrners,
homeowners erho erere trying to trirr,prove" their propert], and the:r went alongtrith the constrrrction that, the hon,eordners association went along with th-construction but in the past, in m1r recollection is they aLra]rs had alittle back there but it was not a verlr n.ajor dock whatsoever.
Erhart: The dock actualllt could have gone up to the ordinar:!, high waterr.ark and probabllr was rebrrllt after...
Olsen: The photos shor^r, again
is the recreational beachl ot ,this is the lot right next to
have like planks out to it.
]'ou can see tbat those two did have. Thisthe furthest one over. Behind the...and then-it and it did go up through so yeah, they did
Erhart: The dock eras out through the cattails so how did thelr get outthrough it? Was there a boarclwalk?
Olsen: It was after the fact i{hen I nent out there. I kno}, in one ofthose aerials it does show the one dock. I guess I should have brought...
down but it looks like on the aerial !,ou can see that it looks like it was -this lot that had a dock out. It didnrt look like there were 2 other dockshere. That was an aerial fron, early 80rs.
PI ann j. ng
Febr ua ry
Coro,ission2L, L99g -
Meet ing
Page 3
think he' s been around?
think that they would have known.
Hauling ilirt onto a lakeshore just isnrt, thatrs just...
Erhart:
rr,oved in
Ol sen :
Erhart:
Ol sen :
answer s
Ellson:
Erhar t :
truck s?
OIsen: Oh
Erhart: Do
Olsen: We
contractor.
Erhart:Do you
I rdou Id
Yeah .
Yeah. Do ]rou have any idea in terms of volun,e how n,uch dirt they
ther e ?
No I donrt.
Do ]rou knol,, who the contractor was who rt,oved the dirt?
ftrs on the application. ALI these questions, I don't know theto.
What are !,ou getting at?
IrF, just trying to get a feel for this. Did the:, haul it in with
yeah. I Frean there was a srrbstantial ar,ount of fill.
you have any idea how many truckloads?
could figure that out. Harlantl Johnson fror', Chaska rras the
Ol sen :
Erhar t :
Conrad: And to jurtp onto Tin's coro,ents, the last tir,e we talked about
this we were talking aborrt what does Chanhassen do to contractors who
theoreticalllz know what the ordinances are but ignore therr,. In this case,
and I knoe, it's your tur.-n to talk Tin' but what do we alo? Do we just sa!,
this contractoris welcoF,e back to Chanhassen? Do we have a wav ofpenalizing the contractor?
Krauss: vle don't have an:, licenslng of contractors that would aIIoH us to
penal.ize ther,. AIl we can do is watch thert more closel!, in the future.
Olsen: Unless the], get perr,its, we donrt even know thelrrre there.
Conrad: Ieah, but rre really dontt have a rralt to restrlct contractors?
Erhart: Well you corrld. You could take, we do now have a penalt!, clause
in our wetlands fi 111ng .
Krauss: Well who you 90 after is the Propertlt onwer.
Erhart: We coulil include the contractor in our ordlnance too. I teII you,
if one of therr got fined, believe rre all the test of them itould know.
Thatts just an idea.
Conrad: Norn.alI!, the contractor seeks the Perr,it.
Planning
Febr uar 1'
Corr,rr,ission2L, l99A -
Meeting
Page 4
Olsen: Right.
Olsen: That's
fur ther .
just the application fee is doubled and you can also go
Erhart: lfidea. whatto take out
you could sonehow slap hands ofwe're saf ing here, shat the DNRaII the volurr,e of n,aterial that
contractors
r eC OFtIr,ended
was put in.
Itrs j ust
the:, donrt
too.
t,as
an
have
Olsen: The]' just go the ordinary high water r.,ark.
Erhart: Yeah. And what werre recoFu',ending is to take it all out. Otherthan is there an:r, other than pure acaden,ics that they shouldnrt have doneit, therefore the:, should take it all out, is there any substitute reason
why they should be allowed to leave s or",e in? Is that in,proving or havingno affect by leaving it? In other words, erhatrs the difference between,other than philosophical, erhatts the difference between the DNRrs
recor,a,enala t ion and orr reCoFrFr€nda t i on?
Olsen: Well our recor,rr,endat I on restores r,ore wetland. And it,s less
rranicured lawn, fertilizer.
Krauss: The DNR is regulated, well
regulated b]t state law and they candoesn't r,ean the], necessarillt would
rrha t the:,rre allowed to dealonly deal with it to the OHw.
oppose our going further.
with is
Tha t
Erhart: And so the!, wouldn't
because.
even go beyond recoF[rendinq that sir.'pl],
Krauss: The:/ can I t.
Olsen: The!, can r t.
Erhart: Okay. I've got one last question
thatrs basically consistent with rrhat ereid
circur,stances?
Olsen: Correct.
Erhart: On nun'ber {, do we have
reFiove purpJ.e I ooses tr i fe ?
AIlowing the boardwalk,
an]tbod:t in the same
then.
do to
anything no}, that requires people to
Olsen: ItIs a noxious lreed andresponsibilit], to reF,ove ther,.
again State Iaw rea1ly, itrs ],our
Krauss: WeII t:rpicall!t cona,unities license traders people. Plw,bers,electricians. Contractors? I haven't heard of cor',r',un i ti es that extendedthat to grading contractors but itrs not inrprobable that you could do so.
Erhart: I iras just thinking that you could write, correct r,e but rre
cttanged the ordinance recently to actuall]r penalize someone rrho fillswetlands r ight?
Erhart: The weed inspector is suppose to, who I think was Torr Har',ilton.
Olsen: He used to be. I think itrs Scott Harr
is that there's real no cure you know to reF,ove
corrring back :roung and that I s grhen you get it.
now isnrt it? The probler\
it but this stuff will be
Erhart: The reason I ask, do we reall!' irant to include this iter, 4 in hereif itrs already another larr? I think it just acts, not that Irr, pleasedyrith erhat these people did by anl' F,eans but I think i.t puts us, the City alittle bit in the position of alFrost kind of kicking dirt at ther., and Ithink if that's alread:, a law, that the], have to remove it which cannot be€nforced, I alniost wonder if we shouldn't just stick to the first 3 points
and leave it at that so Irll pass it onto ]'ou Steve with those coFfiients.
Er,r'ings: I donrt reall!, have rruch on this. I guess f dontt, it seeFis thatthe applicants have alread], agreed that the]'rre going to do what the DNR
has said thelt have to do so werre reall]t talking about an additional 9 feethere and I guess I eras a little bit torn betrreen doing sor,ething that wasjust purel:' punitive for the sake of puni shr',ent and the fact that, which Idonrt want to do and on the other hand being faced with this situation overand over again. We see this so often and if we donrt take a stand I think
whereb]/ we will essentiall]r alwa:'s inpose this tlrpe of penalty or our
wetlands ordinance is going to be a joke because itrs going to put a
prelr'iurq on ignoring the regulations and it can allow anlrbod:, who just goes
ahead on their own to get whatever the:, want so I guess I donrt think we
have any choice but to have ther', rer,ove it. Whether it's 35 or 45 feet, Idon't know lrhat the right ar'.ount is but I go along with the staff
r ecorr,F,enda t ion here. The onI], question I have is, Irl, vrondering what would
happen, $rhat happens to the fill thatrs rerrovetl? Do rre have to be
concerned aborrt what theyrre going to ilo lrith that?
Olsen: Yeah.
wetland.
Er'r.rings: I rm just scared that sor,ething like that
Olsen: Yeah, I lras going to put that in. That we
Er,r,ings: Does it have to be ren,oved frorr the sitethe higher portions of this ground if they rrant to
back down?
It has to be rer,oved. ft canrt be durrrped on the other
wi 1I happen .
should probabl]' rrake.
or can
t here
the], duF,P it onit w111 aII wash
Olsen: The fact
]rou can see thatthat l,ou have to
Olsen: There I s
it right next to
say wash back in
aIIow f iIIing.
wetlands.
that itrs got purple .loosestrife in it r,eans that
it's growing. There are certain State regulations
rerr,ove that fill and where ],ou can take it.
again
of waws
Er'rrings: Right. There are what regulatlons? State regulations?
recor'n,enda t i ons of certain things that lrorr can't just
$rhere )rourre taking it out because it witt just, Iike
and the purple loosestrife will go back in. we ilon't
To reF,ove fiII and then place that srithin another area
duF,p
ltotr
of a
Planning Cor',rr,ission I'lee t ing
Februar], 2L, l99g - Page 5
PI ann i ng
February
Cor.ur,ission
2l , ]-99g -
Meet ing
Page 6
Etutings' I just see that as a shortcorr,ing in the
hre should have a recortrqendation that rer',oved fillOr the]'rll subr,it a plan as to where the filL will
before ren,oving an]' and it will be approved b]r theby the Cit!, staff. Sor..ething like that.
recorfi'endations. I thinkor fill that is renoved.
be deposited to the Cit],Citlt. Or to be approved
Erhart: Yeah. including erosion control.
En,r,ings: The]rrre doing things like that. Kind of a grading. Would !'oucall it a grading plan?
Olsen: Yeah, technically theyrll have
Er,r,ings: So a grading plan. Erosiondeposited. That's aII I have.
anotber grading plan.
and where the spoils will be
to get
control
Conrad: Good Steve. Annette?
Ellson: I agree with the staff to extend it to the entire area versus just-
the ordinarl' high water r,ark. I like the idea of adding what Steve did fora nuriber 5. It would just be our luck that we would have ther, just put it
higher up on the sane soil so if we go to all the trouble to telI ther,
which rr,anrral, how to rer,ove loosestrife is, the least we can do is refer
thenr to the state recor'rrenda t i on or perrnit process or how to rtake sure thelt
dispose of fill rdith purple loosestrife in it properl]' as rre1l. But I
agree with staff I s recor'n,endat i on.
Erhart: We can't do that becauselin,its are off the roads.
they cannot rr,ove equipr.,ent unti I the
Ellson: The vrhat?
Erhart: Until the road restrictions, if they're going to harrl equipnent in-
which theyt re going to have to do here.
Conrad: Yeah, Ma], 1st seerrs a little bit.
Erhart: Usuall!, that goes off Ma], l5th. We have to give them 30 da:rs.
June 15th would give ther, 30 da],s.
Conrad: What date?
Erhart: Jrrne 15th would give theF, general).y 30 days.lirtits cor,e off earlier depending on the weather. May
Sor,etir,es those
I5 th usua 111t.
Conrad: There is not a date in our motion as to when it has to be renoved
blr.
Olsen: well the DNRrs date was Dla:/ Ist. We B,ight as well just have the
same date.
PI ann i ng
Febr uar y
Cor.o,iss ion
2L, l99g -
uee t ing
Page 7
Conrad: B]' the wa!', I think thatrs a real- good staff report. I really
Iiked how it was worded. l,!' onl!, other con,rrent would be when we restorethis Jo Ann, it sir'.pl}, Freans re$,oving so as we rerrove, does that niean we I 11
have 35 feet of water taking the place, depending on water level and what
have you, and then werll have, or whatever the nuniber is and 9 feet abovethe water level which will be barren at this time. so irhat does it looklike? What we have done, we haven't restored. We have rer,oved.
O1sen: Right. Therers that cross section with the DNB that werlIgive it that. It wonrt just be, it wiII have sor,e grade to it and
will have the stone wall or whatever. I can't r err,err,b er what theyto it as. You can, lrhat werve done before with others is to work
ther,, with the DNR and the Fish and Wildtife to con,e up lrith sor,eplantings. If you want theF, to go that far, we can do that.
stiII
then it
re fer r ed
wi th
Conrad: I jrrst donrt want it to look ugllr or I donrt
to being nothing.
Olsen: It !ri1l cor,e back prett]r quick.
natural state.
want to restrict it
I F,ean the], ilo return to thei r
Conrail: So the cattails will cOrt e back?
Thatrs what they alwalrs.
that area.
Olsen: Irve been told, lreah.
Conrad: They probably will in
Erhart: In here they wilI.
Conrad: Yeah. okalr. I think we should have ais restored and I like the corutrents on the plan
erosion control procedures. I think that r,akes
onl:7 cor',r,ent. Is there a rrotion?
date in there b1z which thisthat is suhr,i tteil and son,ea lot of sense. Thatrs nw
Er,riings: IiIl n,ove the Planning Conm,ission recorfiiend approval. of wetland
A1te,:ation Perr,it *89-1 with the following conditions. NuF,ber I would beas it is in the staff report with the addition in the first sentence thatthe work will be done by June 15, 1990. Conditions 2, 3 and 4 wilt sta], asthe], are and there will be a fifth condition addetl saying that theapplicant, that prior to doing any work, the applicant shall subrr,it gratling
and erosion control plans and a plan as to the disposal of deposit of thesoil thatrs renroved. Her11 subrr,it a plan to be approveil by Cit], staff.
Erhart: IiIl second it.
Errfi,ings FroV€d I Erhart seconded that the Planning Cor',rt ission reconrrrend
apptoval of Wetland Alteration Perr,it ,89-1 with the following conditions:
I. The applicant shall renove 25r x 45r x 30r of fill r',easuring frort thepropert!, line adjacent to Lotus Lake as shown on the final plat. Thefill will be ren,oved by June L5, L99g using the typical cross section
Provided b:' the DNR.
Planning
Eebruary
C ort,tr, i s s i on
2t, t99g -
Meeting
Page 8
2.The applicant shall be perrnitted
wetland to provide access to the
one boardwalk
dock.
through the restored
4.
5
The area
state.
of renoved fill shall be allowed to restore to a natural
An:, purple loosestrife that returns shalI be irtr,ediately rerroved as
recorut ended b!' the Fish and WiIdIife Service r',anual, trSpread, Ir,paet
and Control of Purple Loosestrife in North Afierica wetlandstr.
Prior to anlu work being done on the site. the applicant shall subF,itfor City staff approval a grading and erosion control plan.
AII voted in favor and the rrotion carried.
Conrad:
Krauss:
EIlson:
Krauss: I donrt know. Itold they could not r,ake
what if ne gave a r,eeting
Did you have the City council waiting outside?
Unfortunatelv not.
The!' were expecting us to go a little late?
was contacted b:, BiIl Bo]rt andit but r think this r,ight faII
and nobody carqe.
Torr workr,an andinto the realm of
Conrad: You would think they would be here bw now.
3
JOINT MEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL TO INEORMALTY DISCUSS THE LAND USE PLAN
CHAPTER OF THE COI{PREHENSIVE PLAN.
Krauss: Yeah, I think that's the case. Without their presence, obviously -that takes a big chrrnk out of what we were going to tackle tonight. Thereare sorrre other things, we r',ight as well use the tir',e ef fectively. Therer s
soF,e other things we can touch base on. The lack of presence of theCouncil's a litlle discouraging. I think that their -input at this juncture-
is real vital and possibll, if Moses wonrt con,e to the r,ountain we can go tothen,. Everl,bod:t's been having sor,e exceedingly long r,eetings late}], and
r,ay possibl:, thatrs the result of it. We had hoped to give 1rou, inaddition to the r,aterial tbat rde gave ]rou, we had hoped to glve you thegoals and policy section. We had drafted it up anil put it into our word
Processor. Unfortunately it ate it. Our erord processor is old and itts -being replaced and hopefulllr we can replace it quicker now.
Err,rr,ings: That gives us another goal f or the Cit!,.
Krauss: We've got then,, we just donrt know how to use then, :'et...the planbut we had to go to some extrenre r,ethods to do it and ship it out to
anothex firr, to r-escue the r'agnetic tape. We have it back now and werreworking on it. Since the last tin,e rde r,et on the cor,prehensive plan rre'vedone a nunber of things. Mark and I have been working extensivel]r and Jo
Ann has been working with us too, to actualllr give you the plan eler',ents
that back up everything werve been talking about to date. we do have a
ver:t at!,bitious schedrrle for :tou and as tirr,e goes on it gets more and n,orean,bitious. We do have a Iot of work planned for that tin,e period. We had
a rrreeting vrith the park board several weeks ago to review the plan with
then,. Of course their position was not one in which the:/ corr,F,entedspecifical.l], on the r ec orrur,enda t i ons of the land use plan itself except as
the:t related to recreation activities. The:, had sonr€ sullf€stions for sor.,eadditional park areas. Sor,e trail corridors. uost of which seep,ed to nake
ettfi,inent sense to Mark and rr]rsel f and Jo Ann. we would propose to
incorporate that. One of the things they suggested that rr,ay fit into the
rrork that you'd been thinking about is the Park Board had a request that nelook at efforts to preserve the Hinnesota River bluff line. We have the
ongoing discussions on the BF district and I think lt pla]rs in rather weII.
we also have the issue with Moon Valle:, which of course is eating into the
bluff line so it is being tackled fror', a nuFrber of standpoints brrt it was apoint erell taken. we also had a n,eeting rrith, we've had several r,eetings.
Wer re involved in the Eastern Carver Count]r transportation study and thatrs
really going to be the lynchpin of our transportatlon eler,ent. What
the]rrre doing is we've worked rdith other corrdrrunities in Carver County and a
consul,tant to develop a transportation r',odel for this part of the Countlt.
The resrrlts are falrly drarr,atic and fairly startllng. We've updated theplan several tirr,es to r',ake sure that it reflects our lanal use expectations
as they sit in :/orlr current plan. Chaska's gone through the sar,e routine
where thelzrre updated their prodrrctions rrhere both cordr.unities, in fact
Victoria as welI, have expectations for developrr,ent that far exceed the
Metro Council. I thlnk we've known that for a long tirte. The Metro
Council rs transportation prograr,, F,odeling Prograrr ln our neck of the woods
is worse than irorthless. Itrs orrtright r,isleading. We think the best data
availabte for what the transportation needs will be are going to be
generated by this study and we'11 roll that into the transportation ele['ent
for :'ou to review hopefully within the next 4 to 6 weeks.
Erhart: Count]' funded stud:'?
Krauss: werve alL participated in it. The Cit:, has with the Count:r. Itrs
got a nuFber of uses for us. It contintres to supPort the tir'ellt
construction of 2L2. Itrs very good aFtrrunition to have to go to ltnDot to
try and get ther, to schedule the final cor,pletion of TH 5 out to TH 41.
Werre going to need this in our coBiPrehensive PIan to deterF,ine where
collector streets should be. werre golng to, you know you canrt put all
this traffic on the r'ain line highway s:tster, and exPect that system to
work. wetve got to provide alternative routings, particularly for local
trips, and that will be exPlained rtore fu1ly in the transportatlon PIan.
we also had a rr,eetlng with the Hlghwal, 5 DeveloPF.ent coalition. I alrralts
get the ninre wrong but what's the offlcial name.
John shardloir: I think thatrs close.
Krauss: The group has prepared lantl use PIan illustrating their desired
intent for developr,ent in the corridor. we've discussed this occasionally
in the past. I guess it's no surPrise but ltrs verl, sirt ilar to the
alternative l plan that we origlnalllt looked at. The plan is very well
thought out. ver], professionally prepared and provideS 6ss€ssFr€ht or input
Planning Conrr,ission Heeting
Februarl' 2Lr l99g - Page 9
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into issues in a very pogent era]r. After discussions with Chairnran Conradhre've agreed that we wor:ld schedure then,, the group to Frake a presentationto you at your next r,eeting. In all fairness 7 rrrost of the issues that were-raised are issues that ]rou discussed in one forn, or another but you can
It,ake lrour own decision when this is presented to :rou in their forrtat. Withthat,I guess, we have Don present tonight. Don, :rourve been at sorre of orrr-meetings and have had sor,e overview of how the plin developed to date.Wqrre seeking Council input at this point before we really go pub].ic withthe plan. As l,ou can see there are people here tonight who have been inattendance at various r,eetings. Basicalry staff has tried to in essencerun interference with the Planning Cor.,r,ission. Let the Planning Cor',rr,issiondevelop the plan based on their own good judgr,ent with pub!.ic input andhearings but to cor',e in the future. vletve encouraged people to conie talkwith-us a1! to give us their input and changes travi beln r',ade to the planbased on that but we reall:, havenrt activell' sought the kind of publiiinput that we nill be in the next fee, n,onthi and we wanted to haire sor,einput froF, the Council... ToF, WorkF,an and BiIl Bo]rt had called F,e to teIIrre that thelr could not be here tonight. Tor, has been ln n,y office severaltir,es and has looked at the pran and r really don't have a feer for his
lnpo!. and wouldnJt care to reall:' tr:r to put words in his rtouth and speakfor hir,. I think hers generall], supportive of the concepts and we didn'tget to be talking in detail. Bill Bo:rt has also been in attendance inseveral of our n,eetings and lortr Workrtan was at one of our early nreetings I -believe. Birr $ras at our rast Freeting and expressed concern over thevolur.,e of high densit!' horrsing that we are illustrating on the plan and thein,pacts that that r',ight have on the cor,riuni tlr and the Locations that rrereshown for that. A couple of other things you should be aware of too isthat wetve been taLking to several property owners in the corridor who haveconceptualllt spoken to us about very rr,ajor developrr,ents. Industrial officeheadquarters t]rpe developn,ents s orrre of ihich are not reaJ.ly consistent rrith-the current alternative that lrou're looking at. We have t-otd ttrer,basically that at this point rde're certain that the door ls open. ThePranning cor',nission is wilring to take a look and see what,s ieing proposed-but unless son'ethingrs reaLl!, proposed, there's nothing rearLy naia- anifast -for us to bring to :'ou. we have tried to rr,ake thi point thorrgh thatour door is open and. that we'd be happ:r to bring these ttrings befoie vou as_tir,e pern,its. with that r guess r'd lixe to pais the n,eetiig over to Mark.Mark and r have hrorked guite a bit to take the land use plan that wervedeveloped and tr!' to give ]'ou an idea of what it actualli will result in intern,s of population and er',ployrr,ent and land consur,,ption trends. Hark, ifyou could give that inforrration.
Koegler: IilI be fairly brief because I think F,ost of the individuals here-have heard rrrost of this before. you recall at the rast rr,eeting we tord]'ou that we were breaking out sor,e of the land use inventorv iniorrr,ationand the land use pran in a different fornat and thatrs what'car,e back toyou in the charts with the TAZ zones. Those give ],ou a reall:r, I thinktight overview of exactl:' the ar,ount of land in th3 variorrs ciiegories thatnot onl]r remains to be developed but werre showing on the cor.,prefrensivePIan as well. To sunrrrarize briefly that that rheans, we show an available -single fan,irlz land suppry of just in excess of 5oo acres. coro,erciat andindustriar are about the san,e nur,ber at 1r3 apiece and as r pointed out inthe n,ateriar, the industrial is deceiving becarrse when you factor out the
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Dataserv Phase II and the l,lcclynn Phase II and those kinds of areas that
are vacant in the f ieltl right now, that nurrber drops to I think in excessof 65 acres or so. So the suppllr is very, ver], tight. The entire land useplan identifies an expanaled MUSA line of about 2.OAO acres. Slightl), over
2,ggg acres. of that land total, h,er re looking at a net developable single
far,ily corrponent or low density coFrponent I shoulil say of about 860 acres.
An expansion of the industrial categor]t of about tl62 acres and again the
specific breakdowns are provided in the r'aterial that :rourve got there.
werve cor,e about reaching that nurtber in a couple of ways. We have looked
at the population projections and kind of backed that into lane densities
and then in turn done sorr,e calculations on the attrount of land that would be
required to support tbat population in that household growth level. we
also kind of caF,e at it fror, the other way which rras to take the land use
plan that the Cordr,ission had identified thus far and basicall1, work through
that and see what kind of land requirer,ent and population that gives us.
The!' F,atch very well. Coincidentatl]' I will be probabllt the first to adr,it
the:, do. I{hat r.re end up with was r,{erre calllng for a population of about
l7,ggT in the year 20A0 and the land supply that's shown on the PIan would
accorr ,oalate a population soF'elrhere in the neighborhood of aborrt 23,ggg.
Met Council typically deals with a 5gt overage so werre reasonably close.
Werre getting close to vrhat werre corrfortable rrith. What we have done as a
part of this is we have factored out a couPle of parcels which are under
private ownership, single oerner anal I think you know the parcels, werve
talked about before. out of this total calculation irerve assutted that
those are going to be vacant for a white. Again, that's the whir',s of the
indivittual propert:, owner so those nur'bers are not reflected ln the single
farr,ilyr category or the industrial categories Irve just referenceil . The]rrre
in the vacant ag categor!' whictr is one of the other ones. Sir',ilarllt' I
guess I r,entioned there rdere the two' at least a couple of those that i{e
have pulled out of there. sir.,ilarl1' we also have not incruded in these
nuF,bers right now the 1995 studlt areas. I think the one thatrs n,ost
notevrorth:, in that regard is the one at TH 41 and TH 5 because the one is
nuch rr,ore detached. That one becor,es kind of a donut hole to a certain
degree with developt,ent cor,ing ln around it so those nurrbers are not in our
200A nur,bers at the present tin,e eithet. Again, penaling a decision that
this bod:, will r,ake and the City Council nill r,ake as we approach 19951
that nray be added in. It It,ay be held out longer. Thatrs ],et to be
detern,ined. So thatrs a ver:t quick run through of some of the land use
inforn,ation. As PauI said in his introduction, that werre kind of after
$as concurrence this evening froF, the City councll that at least the thing
is progressing the right direction. we have, and I think Paul eluded to a
sctredule thatis in lrour packet. I believe it calls for the next rreeting to
be about March 14th at this bod!'. At that tirne we would anticipate having
the drafted text available for lzou for the land use sectionl the natural
resources section and the housing chaPter. The housing is essentialll'
sonrething yourve seen before. we need to rtake sonre slight revisions anil
confornance with nen land use infornation. so with that as a quick
overview, Ird be available to answer any questions. I donrt think realllt
to go into it in any nore detait tonight is probably a beneflt.
Conraat: That's fine Mark, thanks. Paul, when were :rou thinklng of
inviting the Highvra:, 5 corridor folks to talk to us?
Planning
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Krauss: welr thatrs really contingent on John shardlowr s schedule but rretalked about the I'larch 14th r,eeting. Now itrs trrrning out that our March7th F,eeting r guess it is, our regurar scheduled n,eeting is an extren,er]tlight agenda and possibly tf it worked out.
John Shardlow: Irve got a conflict with that evening unfor tunatel1r.
agenda fror, theKrauss: well
guide plan at
ee F,alt tr:, and get soF,ething else on thethat point but werll disctrss that.
Conrad: Okay. Don, lre rdere reaIly, before we start airing all this infront of the public and hoJ.ding the public hearings as :rou heard, we reall),eranted to share rrhat we,re doing with staff, with the City Council to get,just so the councirrs informed and we have their inprrt too just as at areindividuals in the corr,n,unity. youtre here tonight ;hich we-appreciate butwe're n,issing 4 so I think what I,d like to do is, I still fi;a it a realvalid exercise even though the Council rs real busy, to have the input. Tohear what you have to sa:, before rre start. There are a couple difierentdirectlons in sone areas that we can go in and itrs kind of-good to hearCouncil input. It r,a]' influence what we start p,:esenting to the public son,!, druthers is rather than going through with 1'ou tonight, is to hopefullyhave a convenient tin,e when r,ost of the city councir nertbers could Le in -
attendance and again do yrhat we irere atterrpting to do tonight and that n,a:tbe March 14th. rf thatrs a special r,eeting or March 7th. werd sure riketo have your, it just r,akes sense to have 1,our input at this stage of the
gaF,e .
Ma]'or chr,ier: yeah, and r appreciate that as lrerr. r donrt know yrhlr theother council r,errbers arentt here, other than the two had sonething hadgoing on and r apolog),ze for being a littre late beeause r had to ittendthe Eirer',enrs Association Relief iortion tonight which rrn, required to beat- that n,eeting and it didnrt end as quickly as the:, thought. But what Irdlike to do is with the inforrration thit werie gottei frort,-paul and s ortre ofthe data, hopefrrrly the council has had an opportunity to review that andto coF,e up with a rittle better handle on whatts ueing proposed as to thePlanning Con,n,issionrs suggestions. I rdould suggest :r6sl tiat l,ou probabl],should tr!, to cor,e bef ore or back f or the elanning Cor.,rt ission ei ttrEr tfre -
7th of 14th.
Conrad: Good. Paul, anlrthing elsejust going to rtove off.
on this whole issue? f guess hrerre
Krauss: We donrt reall!, have a lot of nen inforr,ation to give you sincethe last tirr,e we net. on tle land use plan. As Mark and r f,ave -indicated,
se've s[reJrt quite a bit of tirte basically worklng out thi nurtbers of whatwerre talking about here and it was reall1' an exicting process. yourrer.aking a lot of assurrptions and then assGptions on atsi.rr.,ptions and wefound, what we tried to do and rrhat those nur',bers are basld on ver]r briefryis we projected forward based on land use trends that werve seen. wereviewed srrbdivisions that werve had ln recent years and tried to assessthe-densityr that werre working irith. we looked at our existing industrialoffice developn,ent and tried to figure out how r',an1, err,ployees we have andcarr:/ those forward so the ntutbers are our best atteFrpt. Thelrrre not
PIann ing
Eebr uar ],
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21 , r99A -
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Page 13
Perfect. These things never are but we think the!,rre reasonable anal that
we feel is the important thing.
Krauss: If that I s lrour wish,certainly.
reall:t rather. that trasn't the way I rrantedWe Eight as weII, Ird
but . . .
Krauss:Iist.Mr. Chairr',an, we diil schedule a discussion of our ongolng issues
Krauss:
rt,eet i ng
I don't believe that irorks out with Johnrs schedule. Our nextis on the 7th.
Conrad : So he can I t be,okav.
Krauss: Possiblf if that worked for the Council, that r',ight work basicallyto replace what we were going to do tonight and then John ]rourre scheduledfor that next one.
conrad: so ]rou could be in on the 14th John? okay, that works. should te
keep all the F,aterial that eretve got here tonight? We F,ight as weII ratherthan forcing you to distribute it again. Pau1, we having talked aboirt the
Planning goals and policies iter,. WerlI do that the next tir,e?
Krauss: Right.
Conrad: Thatrs the regular agenda for tonight.
ElIson: We have Minutes.
Conrad: So the next Freeting werll get
can here. We wiII present to ther, r.rhattine and s orre of our rationale and thenpeople present their, rr,al,be it could beduring the sar!,e r,eeting.
Conr ad :
to do it
ONGOING ITEI-IS.
Conrail: what should we do PauI? should rre
we F'ight as well. Let's just start at the
Etr,ings: One b:, one with what in rtinil?
as Ir,an], City Council &,er,ber s as we
werve cor,e up with at this point in
we will have the Highrda!' 5 Corridora counter opinion or an alternative
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Er'ni ngs movecl, Conratl seconded to approve the tlinrrtes
of the Planning Cor'.,rr,i ss i on nieeting dated Februaxy 7 t 1990 as presented.
All voted in favor except Erhart and Ellson who abstained and the motion
carr ied .
go through those one by one?
toP.
Conrail: Letrs go through the lilinutes first and then we can get to that.
Planning
Februar y
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Page 14
Conrad: To delete or get riil of then,. We coutd also prioritize then,. I
guess one, I want to r'.ake sure that theyr re the ones, theyrre worth)r ofbeing on this list. Two, I rrould like to know where the:, are and if webelieve they're high priority or low priority so ma:rbe we can rate ther,high, r,ediuFr or low. That rrould be the other thing that Iid look at. Thisis not really a fair review because therers onl!' 3 of us here, but thatrsthe lra!, it is in the big citY.
Ett$rings: Webrief recess
Errmiings:
cortbined
could have 4 if the
to get a can of pop.
Chairnan would bring hin in or call a
EIlson: No, hers readg'.
Conrad: Werre going to get this rr,eeting. I have a potential for
corrpleting the r,eeting earlier than ever before in 10 years. Itts never
happened like this.
Krauss: I{r. Chairr,an, if I could, this ongoing list is kind of ongoing forall of us. We keep continually thinking of things that weid like to see onit as well as ]rou do and the Council gives us sone direction. One thingI'd like to see, if we can add to the list, is a discussion of ourregulations relative to group hoFres. Therer s been some federal law changes
and state law changes with the regulation of grorrp homes that rrraltinvalitlate what regulations we have and I think it would behoove us beforewetre confronted with an issue ideally, to have the Cit!, Attorney go
through and tell us how the la!, has changed. TelI us what can beregulated. TeIl us rrhat canrt and hopefully update our standards a littlebit in how we handle these things because it's inevitable that sooner orlater werII have a proposal.
EFiF,ings: That raises an issue right off the bat. Is this a work list ofthings that ere're interested in or is this a work list of things that
an:/bod:r' s interested in?
Ellson: He just said ongoing planning issues.
Er'rrrings' Or do thelr have their own list and rre have our list?
EIlson: They all affect us.
for a position. I rr, jrrst saying, is this aarguing
EIlson: Yes.
Conrad: It should be a combined list and it should be aallocating their tir',e to priorit;, iterr,s.
Er,rtings: Okay. Thatts fine with rtre.
Conrad3 And theoretically the planning staff worrld not be working onanything other than this list. Other than overviewing new projects andsubdivisions and what have you but in terlr,s of objective of new areas to
I I tr, notlist?
!ra!t we have O f
get involved in, this is the work list.
EF,r,ings: what if the City Council r.,ay direct therr,.
Conrad: If the Cit:' Council, the!' will get it onto this list.
Krausss I think itrs irrrportant to realize we only have so r,uch tirr,e to
work on nehr types of items. These are i tertrs that don't norrrally conre up inthe day to day routine and to that extent, it would be useful if 1'ouunderstood what kind of direction we're getting froF, not on1:/ :rourselvesbut frorr Council plus iihat kind of input we had so it aII jelIed down to asingle proposal .
Conrad: Okay, at the top. Corr,prehensive plan upalate. 9/90. That seer,sreasonabl.e. Ar,endr'ents to the MUSA boundar!,. Thatrs seeF,s reasonable anilirr,portant. Future use for areas outside the UUSA boundarlr. The 1995 studlt
area.
Krarrss:
Conrad:
Er,niings:
Conrad:
Erhart:
Krauss: Thatrs the walt itrs outlined on the land use plan now. What we'vesaid is at the present tir..,e we donrt even care to re-open the issue of what
shor:Id happen in those areas until 1995. In 1995 you could well decidethat itrs still inappropriate to do anything in there and just change it tothe year zqgg.
Err,rtings' Oh, okalr. I guess I guess I didn't understand that. So when you
say itrs 1995 stud:, area, :rou F,ean :tou donrt plan to look at that issueuntil 1995? Oh boy, okay.
B1z it's ver!' nature, thatrs not sofi,ething ]rou need to deal with.
Yeah.
wh:' does it say 1995 studl' areas under status?
Thatrs probabl:, true.
Does that n,ean that ltour re going to stud:' it in 1995?
Conrad: Thatrs okalr. Vle could always
now but right now I have no need to do
tell them to start studying it right
that so I rr, happ!, that it's there.
Planning Corr.rr,ission Meeting
February 2L, l99g - Page 15
Ellson: It will be on here for a long tir,e wonrt it?
Er'rrings: That certainly is a long range iterr,.
Erhart: I agree. Our agenda is filled this lrear but I think thatrs kind
of an ongoing debate here. Has been in the past on do we tr:r to r,ake plans
for areas beyond 10 years or donrt we? Being that basically, if we get
through r{ri th this MUSA Iine extension that werre talking abcut here because
therers no little Iand Ieft, it n,ayr be very teasonable to at least try toidentify sorre things we donrt want on those lands.
Planning
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Cor,rtrission
2L, L99g -
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Krauss: Our land use plan frankly is ilifferent than rrrdn1l coFrFrunities. Manlz
corr,r,uni ties will have every square inch of land planned on a guiale plan forit's ultin,ate use whether or not it's served nohr or not. Thatrs not aninvalid approach. In fact Eden Prairie was quite surprised when we told
ther, that i{e had not done that. The}r thought that we were, they
nrisconstrued our con,prehensive plan aF,enah,ent process here in that thel'felt that rre sere converting a lot of low density residential land toinclustrial land and when it was made clear werre converting sorr,ethingthat's basicalJ.y shown as nothing to a developed status, thelr felt rrrore
corrlf or table with it.
Krauss: Itrs procedure.
adrr,instrative function and somehow shouldnr t be
adn,ins trat i ve
sounds like anErtr,ings.
on here.
Conrad:
inactive
reaction
styr,ied.
It
Olsen: That iteF really started out as being rrpdating the zoning code butneIre doing that.
EIIson: Should it be on this list?
conrad: No, it's going off.
Ellson: Okay. I thought :rou just F,eant itts not irrportant but it will be
on there.
Blending ordinance. We hit a brick wall on that one. Itrs calledright now. Is an:rboil:t interested, do we owe the Cit:, Council an},on that? The last tirre we talked about it. we reall-y were
Krauss: The last activitl', I rras not here when the initial flurry ofactivity surrounded that thing was going on but Mark Koegler, prior to myarrival bere was asked to look into it and he was running into a brick waIIin terFs of tr:ting to figure out an approach that was reisonable. Wervetalked about it on several occasions and I have sone philosophicalquestions with it. I also had s or,e legal questions with it but I,ve spokento our Cit:' Attorney several tirr,es and he thought that if there was a wa]'
l,ou cotrld legitir,atel!, establish that kind of requirer.,ent, he could
Probabl!, defend it.
conrail: Letrs do this. tetrs bring it back to the pranning cor,r,ission tolook at it to either kill it or to keep it out there.
Ellson: Tir,, do ],ou still have ]rour forF,ula?
Conrail: Okay, next one under Zoning Code Ar'endrrrents. Update zoning r,ap,ongoing. That I s nothing in rr,1, rr,ind so I think let I s get.
Eoiings: Well does that n,ean that ever!, tir,e there's a change made, that
we rezone soF,ething, you want to rrake sure that that gets transferred onto -the r,ap?
PIanning
Eebr ua r],
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Page 17
Conrad: One of these in the next couple r,onths paul. Within 2 r,onthsletrs salr, let's bring the i terr back and maybe basicall]' restate what resaw the last tin,e and wer 11 just decide r,rhether yre can even deal r^rith theconcept. Rezoning BE ilistrict to A-2. I think that should be off theIist.
Et'rrings: Absolutellr. In fact anybod:/ reho wouLd advocate such a thing
Probabl], ought to be of f the cotr'r,ission.
Conrad: Yeah, off the list and off the coFdyrission. I like, you know itsays inactive. We havenr t done rtuch on it but I think baseat on vrhat I saidthe last n,eeting, and sor,e of the irr,plications dohrn on L69/2L2t I think weshould look at that" I think we should r',ake it a priority.
Erru',ings: It sa]rs staff and Cit)' Attornel, drafting a proposal.
O1sen: The inactive should have been taken off.
Er'r,ings: Yeah, the inactive should be stricken.
Conrad: So staff and City drafting a proposal to do h,hat?
Krauss: Well thatrs actuall!, a little optirristic but we've also gotten
sorre direction froni the Cit], Council on that. Don, you r',a], want to chip inbut rel.ative to the issues surrounding Moon Vallel,, r,er,bers of the Council
werenrt directly addressing that district but they echoed sone of the sar'.e
sentiF,ents Irve heard at the Planning Corr,nission. That sor,ething should be
done and possibly that district should be eliminated. I spoke to the cit]'
Attorney and got his opinion on whether or not ere coulal sir..ply elirr,inatethat ilistrict, if that would constitute a taking. He didn't believe it didbut Itou would have to n,ake sure there yras soF,e legitin.ate use to replaceit. whether or not A-2 fits that biLl r,iiht be questionable. That Ianil
was never farmed, tr,ost of it and presents s orie severe difficulties fotagriculture but thatrs an obstacle we can deal with at that tir,e.
Erhart: There is son,e farF.ring. As much farming goes on there as on m1'
ProPertlt. M:, proPertlt is verlr hilLlt and a lot of it canIt be farrr'eil . I
think that density of ag there is probably just as high as r,ine which isless than 50t and there are single farr.il1z hor,es there.
Er'F,ings' But lrou donrt have frontage on
landowner there.
a highway. I r,ean if I was a
Erhart: Yeah, Itve got frontage on TH 191. No. but I r,ean the point
is, if they canrt do an!'thing with their land, they can do as r,uch as
do.
of it
I can
Conrad:
Krauss:
Conrad:
review, r
So the attornelt is drafting...
No. vle havenrt asked h irr, to draft an ordinance :/et.
Oka1r, so when you said that was optimistic. I think
dontt know if itts the BE district. I guess thatrs
we should
the onl!'
alistrict, the onl:' place $redistrict quicklr, and that's
Steve, do 1'ou agree that we
En,r,in9s:
sotieone's
use that but I'd srrre like to review thatnot to, what do rde want staff to do? Annette,
should pa!' attention to it right now?
than later because sorr,ething's going to,with a proposal.Sure. Bettergoing to cor,e
now
in
El1 son :
because
thr ough
Er'rrings' Is therepreserve it seerr,s
would be state orof that propertlr?
Right, itrd be very proactive which is just what we
we know what's going to end up happening. Sor,ethingthatrs huge and it will be allowed.
need
wi 1t
to be
COlrre
a rra:t to find out? Thatrs such a desireableto n,e. Is there an:' rra]r, is there any chance
an], other kind of nrone! around where you could
area
that
buy
to
there
SOIrre
Krauss: It' s doubtf rrl.
Eta,ings: Get rid of sor,e of the uses that are there?
Krauss: We could trlt and check into that. I know I worked in the upperMississippi River basin with the Great River road and for all the studythat was done there, there rrere onLy zero funds appropriated throrrgh
Congress for actual acguisition. What they tried to do is get thecorr,r,unities to enact laws that were protected yrithout anlrbod], having toit which is probabll' the r,ode weire going to have to be in.
Conrad: WeII letrs bring this issue back for us to look at it. tta:rbe irhat
we need the staff to do is sa1', here,s irhat it is today. It runs fror, hereto there. These are the uses ancl just present what it is toda], and thenlet the Planning Cor,r,ission sort of brainstorrr, where we shorrld take it andgive you sor,e direction after that. So f 1r' not asking staff to do anyresearch or anlr proposals or whatever. I think staff should cor."e back andin 2 r,inutes sa:r, herers what it is and then we should take a crack at what-
we think it should be.
Erut,ings: And then i{hat?
buv
Conrad: And then get staff to do sor,e research for us. If ire decideshould be a cor.o,ercial rrse, how would it look. What do we need to dodecide it would be a farrting use. The irriplications of that.
itif we
Er,r,ings: And this would be a
ordinance would not be I take
priority item where the blendinghigh
ir?
Planning Con,rr,ission Meeting
Februar]' 21 , 1-99g - Page 18
Conrad: In r,:' trrlnd right now, because I think we're at a dead end lrith theblending, I just donrt knor., that we can accoF,plish anything there. Thisone I think re can accor,plish son,ething on tbat rr,lght do the corr,r',un i tlr somegood.
Etm,ings: Okay, I agree.
PL ann i ng
Eebr uar !,
Cor,n ission
2L, L99g -
Meeting
Page 19
Conrad:
lre go ing
Ol sen :
Sign ordinance. Inactive. Isto review the whole ordinance?
there sor,ething to
Was that what the
the sign, were
idea was?
Yeah.
Conrail: Is there an1'bod1, pressuring to do that?
Olsen: It reall!, occurred with the downtown redeveloprr,entpylon signs on each Iot. we uere working with a consultant
nehr sign ordinance but that reall1' kind of dietl .
so rrerd not
on draf ting
have
a
Conrad: My impression is, itrs restrlctive but it's not, itrs stilt
workable.
Krauss 3
EIlson:
Erhar t :
Conrad:
d isagree
Conrad:
working
Krauss :
3 year s
It also came up
Is this the one
DataServ can,e
wrote Ladd?
WelI our sign ordinance is pretty archaic but nrost conrr,unities. . .
in.
give you natrres. Not that I
when
vou
I had nothing to do with this. I can
rdith what the intent is however.
Krauss: Theyrre reall}' extraordinarillt involved when you get into the
writing of one and there's a lot of design input and philosophy that goes
into ther,. Your business corr{rruni t:' becomes highly involved typically in
those sorts of things. If !,ou rent those billboards, Naegele cort es in withtheir Larkin Hof fr.'an attorneys.
Ellson: SuperArr,erica had a probler, with
a problen, with orrr sign ordinance.
Conrad: But those were acceptable probler,s in
EIIson: I rr, just saying,can narie 2 within
Bnt we I ve
within the
I
the
6
(Ever:rone was talking at saftie tiFre at this
got a lot of people
ordinance. AII the
cor,ing in right now and the]trrecenters are working with it.
our sign ordinance. DataServ had
rr,1t nind .
a n onth .
polnt.)
highl:, inaPProPr iate
to work together as a
covenants. Throw out
Krauss: ...series of 5 or pylons which we felt was
given the fact that it was a PUD and it was srrpposed
unit. We said under the PUD we were going to do sign
the ordinance, irer lt write a new one basically.
Erhart: Are you sa:ting that our sign ordinance is very liberal relative to
say like Minnetonka, Eden Prairie? Is that what ltourre saying?
I donrt know Eden Prairiersredrafting theirs.
Er,niings: Why not adopt that one?
verlr well. Minnetonka just spent 2 or
Krauss: WeIl yeah, a friend of n.ine wrote it so r,a1rbe...
Elr,n,ings: Save a lot of r.,oneyr and time.
Krauss: What you found in Minnetonka, unfortunatel:r what lrou would findhere, as tirr,e goes on it's going to get more and r',ore dif f icult to draf t
one becarrse the business cor.Ir,un i t:/ is going to rapidllr expand it looks likein the next fehr 1'ears in terF,s of the corro,ercial tlrpes of operations we
have .
En'Irrings: Are lrou fan,iliar irith the one in Minnetonka? Would it be a
reasonable model to follow?
Krauss: I donrt know.
we found that werve been rrrore conservative than peopleEIlson3 Havenr t
have wanted?
Erhar t :
it rrith
But :,ou F,ade the
sor(ething.
stateltrent it was archaic so lrou r',ust be cor,paring-
Krarlss: Yeah, well- I know what the:r were doing in uinnetonka basically.
The outlines of it. f wasnrt involved directl1, with lt but Minnetonka's isa sor,ei,rhat dif f erent approach in that sort of thing. I tr,ean they stressuni.fonr,ittt and no neon signs. I rr,ean a lot of things that lrou rr,alr or ria]'not disagree with. Thel' had architects corie in and give design philosophy. -There are books that have been written about how wonderful fas Vegas stiipis and how ,\r,erican it is and people talked aborrt well, wh!' donrt wereplicate that on Hwy 12. I dontt know that thatrs realli germane to our -discussion. On the 6ther hand, itrs functioned well enougir rrntil now.lVerd clearl1, Iike to tinker irith s or'e of the things but itrs a can of
WOfllrS.
Conr ad :
here whenthat r',any
Once ]rotr get into it, itrs a real beast. you donrtit con,es for public hearing. you just donrt. Andthings, I just have this feeling.
want toI don I t be
know
Ellson: Wetre lrore conservative so Ird rather be erring on that side.
Conrad: You know we can leave it there. I sure wouldnr t put an], kind of apriority on that and Ird. sure want to knoir, it just seems Lhere are tr,oreinportant things for staff to be working on at Lhis tirr,e than thatparticular deal. I think about the signs, the problems that Annette havejust clued ne into on signage ordinances that lrarve had. The signs oncanopies at Super&r'erica. The DataServ lssue hrhere thel, needed rr,ore signsbtrt generall!, Ir& just not hearing, and r,aybe yourre negotiating it beforeit gets to us but people are living with the ordinance and I do;'t knowthat itrs a big prioritl'. And Paut your point is, Ietts update it right
now before we have, let's update it is reall!, what. Are ]rou saying updateit or totall]' tear it apart?
Planning Cortrr,ission Meeting
Februarlr 21 , L99g - Page 20
PIann ing
February
Conut,ission
2l , L99g -
Meeting
Page 21
Krauss: I suspect that you would wind up tearing it apart. I think what
would be useful is if we thought about it in a tirr,efrar'e, after the
Coxprehensive PIan is done, to corr.e up with sor,e sort of a position papergiving !'ou an analysis of the pros and cons of the current ortlinance.
Conrad: And I think thatrs wise.
Ellson: But after the main issues are handled, yeah.
Conrad: So vrerll rate that as a tow priority? Is that a tow priority
right now? And then the status will be for staff to r.ake recorr'rrendat i on?
EIlson: Review?
Conrad: Review. I donrt know, whatever tet.s get an active corqlr,en t inthere as to i{hat staff is going to do.
Er,r,ing: Staff review aftex 9/9O.
Conrad: Okay. Next iter,. Update zoning code.
Eroiings: It seeF,s like thatts what werre doing all the time.
Conrad: Yeah, I worrld delete that unless there's a specific.
EIIson: You know I bet these gu:'s are looking at this going, but this isreall1' what lre do day to da!r. wetd better at least put lt on there so thatthel' know that ererre doing other things.
ConraCI: Trees. Nur'ber 6. Mapping of significant vegetative areas.
Ellson: Arenrt we in the n,iddle of doing that?
Krauss: No. I F,ean theoretically.
ol sen :
cOr.,ing.
EIIson:
al{a:t.
We're waiting for the DNR. The!, keep saying that lt will be
Tbe rtrapping.
I thought when Cenvesco $.as here we were just like a few weeks
Krauss: WelI werve got a ver!, weII r,eaning and dedicated individual
working for the DNR in this departF,ent. lhe probler, is is that he has to
handle the entire r,etropolitan area and the arrrount of tine that he can
devote to chanhassen and our needs is really verlr lir,ited. I think werregetEing our best input fror. hin when yJe bring hirr. orrt to a site and ask hirr,
sorte specific questions but placing the expectation on hin to prodrrce thisplan. I think he'd like to. Hers spoken to us about that and herdcertainl!' like to. I just donrt think it's realistic to expect that he can
do it.
Ellson: Does it have to be the DNR that does it?
Planning
Eebruary
Cor.ur'ission
2L, l99A -
Meeting
Paqe 22
Olsen: Hire a consultant.Vf,e donrt have
do it in j ust
Olsen: So hrhen srrbdivisions car,e ivirgin forest and we should protect
ordinance. Have areas, signi ficantwith this.
the n,onew or the staff.
the undeveloped areas or the whole-
n that we would be able to sa:r, thatrs a_it. Kind of like the sretland
areas that we could tr]t to preserve
Are ),ou tr:ting to
EIIson: If lre donrt do it, then like you said, itrs like the rretlands.
tell looking at the aerialErhart: Yeah, but potentiall!' ]rou can
photograph.
Ellson: But the fact that we have an official thing.
Olsen: The]trre real close to being, the last tiF,e I talked to hifi. hethe r,aps Prett!, nruch conpleted. It's just kind of inventory.
Conrad: Can we get an update fror', hirr, as to i{hen he expects to get itdone? So thatrs what wetd like there and then rrer ll take a look andfeel it should be expedited and staff should have it a priority, we,IIthat but letrs just get back, letrs talk to the forester and find outhe expects it to happen. Rezoning of 2 L/2 acre lots for RR district.
had
if we
do
when
Ellson: f don't rerr,err,ber this one.
Err,ings: I don't either.
Conrad: I don't know what that is.
Erhart: WeIl what we have now, we have a district called A-2 which isessential agricultural estate which covered F,ost of southern Chanhassenuntil the last 3 years and so now in A-2 we have a whole brrnch of real1:, 2l/2 acre subdivisions. The]rrre not ag at atl. The:'.r re large lotsubdivisions and the idea here was to protect those subdiviiions and thepeopLe living in that area as to since we already have a districtdesignated for that kind of developFrent catled RR. just apply it to thoseareas so thelt have the protection that was r,eant for in our ordinance. So -thatrs really pretty straight forirard.
Enniings: Whlr canrt that be part of doing our rrrap right now? part of doingour land use map and part of our...
Krauss ! Wel I
hearing to do
d also have to go through a rezoning action. publ ic}'ou t
it.
Er,rr,ings: Could ne do it at the sapie
Krauss: If :rour desire, and thls isgo through a cor,prehensive rezoning,do it then.
tine? KilI 2 birds with 1 stone?
sor.ething we havenr t discusseil , is to
based upon the land use plan, we corrld
Erhart:
c i t:,?
Planning
Febr uar!,
Cor',n ission2L, L99g -
Meeting
Page 23
Erhart :
on a lot I know but rre do a, somebody cor.es in and srants to build sorr,ething
and we rezone that...
Yeah.2 L/2 acre. . .
But those people bought it knowing that also.
Developnient wi 11 be rezoned
Er,r,ings:
ElI son :
Errrrr,ings:
Krauss: Werve got a district now, in
werre not using it. Either we should
eI irr,inate the district.
A-2,Anw
RR.
fact
use
werveit for
got several
sortreth i ng I
of thett'
s upPose
but
or
Erhart: Itrs not a big deal.
I canrt see lrh:/ it can't be cor.,bined vrith the process that wetre
on the cor,prehensive plan and the land use liap that will be
fror', it.
EFr",ing s :
doing now
generated
Krartss: The land use liap doesnrt dictate your zoning.
what your zoning would be. You still have to go through
to bring that into.. .
Itrs a guidea rezoning
foraction
Erhart: I think it's a separate issue but if it's not a big job.
the people rrith affected propertiesKrauss:
and it'd No. lgerd
be a ci tl,
have to notify all
initiated action.
Ellson: I donrt think that this
sonething that should be brought
sudden concerned about this? It
is, I donrt know. I think that this is
up b!, the people. Are thel, all of a
seems like werre...r,aking trouble.
Errrrrings: Wh:t didn I t we leave it zoned A-2?
Erhart: It i{as zoned A-2 and then all these...
EIIson! AIl these people rrant it when it iras A-2.
Erhart: No, they didn't buy it. Thel' developed it. These areas
developed so lt was converted from agrlcultural to a residential
Hrorings' Right.
Erhart: Now it ought to be up to us, ln our zoning ordinance, tothe realit:/ of what's there because itts not agriculture anlirTrore.itrs aln,ost adr,instrative. It reall:, is.
wer e
area.
reflect
Purel:t
Er,r,ings: Yeah. I guess thatrs whatrs confusing rr,e. I woulalyoutre going to take a chunk of the A-2 land and put it into
lots, :rou ought to rezone that land RR while yourre doing it.
think that if
2 L/2 acre
Conrad: So when do we vrant to do this?
Planning
February
Corur,ission2t. L99g -
Meet i ng
Page 24
Erhart: Yeah, itrs been done so letrs just do i+
itEFrr,ings' It doesnrt rnake sense to keep calting A-2.
Erhart: I can t t irr,agine it i s going to take rrorein a Planning Con,rr,ission rr,eeting because r,ost ofad!,instrative.
than a couple hours totalthis is purel1'
Ellson! This isn't
becorr,e residential?
going to change how these people are taxed once thev
Conrad: Can we review this iterr within the next 2 rr,onths?
Olsen: It all came about as part of the contractorrs lrards.that and we just wanted to look at...
Erhart: f nrean letrs give these peopte sorrre protection thatin an A-2 district.
Rev iewing
they don't get
conrad: Letrs saw werlr review this itern by e/fi. Bringing it back b1rApril 30th? Oka:/. That doesnrt F,ean.
Ellson: Not at the expense of the cor.,prehensive plan or
though .
Conrad: Next iteni. Cortputerize land use files.
anlrthing 1i ke that
Krauss: Thatrs sortrething that you need to be aware of that is going
occupl, a signi.ficant at,ount of our tir,e. werre trlring to enter thecentur]r.
to
20xh
EIIson: This isn't done on that word processor one is it?
Krauss: Itrs related to that, lreah. And we have a learning process to gothrough. Therers a lot we could use these r,achines for. Werve spent aconsiderable s urr.r of n,one:/ to get what we have now and therers Frora in thepipeline. One of the things werve been grappling with in rrr), tinie here isadr,instrative procedures to guarantee that conditions you've appliedactuall], are vrhat goes into the ground. Werve done a lot of hand holdingand changing written reports and what not to er,bod!, those irrpr ovetrren t s .
Make sure the:' occur. Cor.rputerization is the itleal wa1' to go with perrr,ittracking and routing these things through and we could provide better dataresources to people. Developers and individuals. Itts clearl:r the thingthat we erant to do. We dontt have a time frar,e for it because-we'reIearning as werre going along.
Conrad: Okalr. Iter.s 2 thru 6relativel:r quick.aII look reasonable to r're. An]rbod]r, the:rrre
Htm,ings: On shoreland ordinance nur,ber 4. Donrt we just adopt the DNR'S? -
Olsen: Actuall!, werve got 2 ltears for that and no. It's like 50 pages anda lot of it doesnrt appl]' to us.
Olsen: WelI we are getting a notice, weire one of the priority cities antl
rre should be getting lt in the next n'onth or 2 that sa:,s that we have toadopt this within 2 :'ears.
Err'rrrings: Right now haven't we already adopted the DNR|s shoreland zoning
ordinance?
Olsen: The new one to adopt.
ire going to write our own or adopt portions ofEr,n,ings: Oh, oka]'.
theirs that apply?
OIsen: Adopt portions.
Krauss: The], wrote an ordinance that rras theoreticalllz utilizable anlrlrhere
in the State. It just isnrt gerr,ane to our Particular needs.
olsen: A Iot of it is.
Er,rr,ings: I've Looked at it.
Krauss: Parts of it is.
Conrad: And I think as long as it's there, we r'ight as welL adopt it.
Ettrrrings: Oh I think we should.
Conrad: we have to within 2 years. M:t point is, wh1' don't i{e adopt it as
ea r 11r as we can?
Olsen: And thatrs what we're going to try and do. You can get a grant.
Up to $5,009.A9 i.o, if you need to bire a consultant to help.
Erhart: Each one of us?
Err,rrings 3 Go get the r,oney. I think we should study this in Cancun.
we have
So are
Olsen: The flood zone is
actuall], werve run out of
ex tended .
one that we're required to adoPt that
that one but werll try to get lta no ther
t ir,e on
and
Krauss: If we can touch on the rretlands ordinance for a r,oment. Nurrber 2
going back up. That is sor,ething thatts going to be fairly tinie intensive.
Probablf invol.ve a significant exPenditure that the cit:' Councll would have
to auth6rize. The Ci[y Engineer lnd I have had a nurtber of discussions
about it. The city is looking into the Possibility of establishing a storr,
water rrtititlt fund. It hasnrt been authorized by the Corrncil. we talked
Planning Corrur,ission Meeting
Februarl' 21, 1990 - Page 25
Etrrrrings: But what does this iter[ rrrean? When it says shoreland ordinance,
trhat does it r,ean?
Pl ann i ng
Febr uar],
Coro, i ssi on21, L99g -
Meeting
Page 26
about it inforr,ally and the Council has authorized sorr,e stutlies on it. Wedo not have a storn, water n,anagerr,ent plan in Chanhassen and it's a reallynajor deficiency for us. We deal with storn vrater r,anager,ent on a catch as-catch can basis. When soF,ebody cortres in with a lot, we Look at controllingtheir particular problem on that particular lot. There is no overall
s:/stert, in this Citl' and thatrs a real rr,a jor deficiency antl I think itrsgoing to cor,e back to haunt us frankly with the l,tetro Council when thelr'relooking at our coF.,prehensive p1an. Thatrs their thing this year is storrr,water r,anagenent and protection of Lakes.
Erin,ings: What is the issue? Haking sure that runoff or storF, rrater
somehow is handled before it gets into the lakes or is kept separate frorr,?
Krauss: Yes with retention providing settlerrlent of solids and der.unitionof phospherorrs loading and then on. Thatrs what the]rtre looking at. Ouri{etlands prograrrrs is sor,ething I think weive touched on a couple of tirtesin the Past. The Cittt had a verlz innovative prograrr that took a stab atcontrolling these things in advance of when rrost other cor'nrunities tackleilit. Werve now worked with it for a nur,ber of years and therers a lot ofgood points to it and therers a lot of problerr,s in terrrs of adrtrinisteringit. tlerd like to have sor.,ebodl' go through whots real knowledgeable andgive us their advice. I rriean therets a lot of new approaches that havebeen used in recent ]rears. The Cit], of Wa]rzata I understand has gonethrough a progran, where the:r not only said an arears a wetland but the:,evaluated the ir,portance of the wiltllife habitat there anal the wetlandvalues to give lrou better input as to whether or not it was preserveable.I{hether or not ltou should exchange that one for another one and how youachieve these things. Itrs an innovative approach. One that we ought tolook at. One of the biggest problerr,s r,re have, and why it goes hand in hanilwith the storr, rdater F,anagerrent plan is we donrt have a weirands Frap worth!,-of the nar,e. We have a i{etlands r'ap that shor^rs in a ver:, gross way onlythe largest wetlands in the citl' ancl r,isses a lot of ther, and in terr,s ofthe snraller water bodies, corr.rpletel], ignores ther,. The only wa]r reall:/ to -get at that in point of fact is through coupling the neh, aerials that wehave with field srrrve]rs and going out and sending a wildlife biologist orbotonist who's knowledgeable or an intern if we can train sol'.ebody, outthere is really the way to go and thatis a ver!, involved process. Werregoing to be needing sor,e consultants assistance on that. WerlI neeil to goback to the counciL and start to work on that but itis soniething that weidlike to stress because this is, itis a tirr,ely r,atter. We're looking atgreatl:' expanding developn,ent in the city. We reall], irant to have thisunder control before the darr, bursts.
Conrad: I like rrhat :rou're saying obviously. Nobody hasthis issue but the coupling of the wetlands-and the ltormire do tha t ?
to persuade nie onwater. Wh:' did
Krauss: well there's a lot of economies of seale. Ever], rretland is astorm water r,anagenient pond. Not ever:, storn, water n,anagenient t]rpe pond isa wetrand and thatis a philosophicar arguFrent but the reverse is-Lrue. wewilr have to go out and survey the elev;tions and overfrow el,evations ofever:r storni water hanagerqent pond in the citlr. At that tine it woutd bethe idear tir,e to go out and likewise have the sar,e crew go out there and
surve]r the edge of the wetland so :'ou can officially map it. It gets ver!,
difficult for a developer or hor,eowner in Chanhassen to knoe, exactl!' what
theyr re dealing with. we have things that al'e, :tou know we have
subdivisions that are approved that salt edge of wetland and a surveltor
comes to us to get a building pern,it and says well how far back should the
house be and we canrt tell the[.. we can sort of tell ther'.r where we think
it is but therers no point the], can surve!, back fron with any certaint:' and
wetlands change. One of the things we all know is rretlands are somewhat
transient. Sor,e expand. some contract and over periods of tin,e they
change. we reall!, need that niap. Noi, the problert" in coupling the two Ladd
is that realisticalllt the tir,efrarr,e for the storr, t ate[ F,anagerr,ent plan is
a couple lrears dorrn the road. Given the cor,plexities of setting up thisutilit], district, if that flies which h,ould be the n,oney by which we would
generate tbe r.,oney by which werd do the stuil]r, ]tourre looking at a 2 to 3year tin,efrar,e. werve taken the liberty of talking to a couple of
consultants about preparing proposals to right now look at updating the
ordinance. Give us sor'e input so at least we can do that part. AIso, if
therers a r,echanisn, wherebl. we can develop an interin, I\aP to carry us
through to that point 2 or 3 ]rears tlown in the future where we get the r,ore
specific one, but give us a better handle on it than we have now, at a
reasonable cost, thatts sor,ething we r,ight want to look at and with lzourapproval and the Citl' Council's approval , see if we can do that idealllt ltetthi s ]tear .
conrad: Could you break those activities down for this report. So if
there are 2 or 3 steps. Letrs just seParate ther, and I hear what !'our re
saying Paul in terms of how theyr re all working together brrt in terr,s of
the individual activities, I'tl like to see what they are and we can sort of
r,onitor :rour progress. An!, other coFdr,ents on this side? Elipping over.
El1son: whatrs the grading and n,ineral extraction?
conrad: Thatrs l.loon vallelr.
Krauss: Basically the Moon valle!,. WeIl, it cor,es along at a gooil tirr,e
frankly. Everl' tinie we get into an ordinance section we find out son,e
other things werd tike to change. Right now ln Chanhassen theoretically
you coutd not r,ove a truckload of dirt in 1'our back Yard without getting
approval b!, the Cit!' Council. The way in which we handle grading Perr,itsis pretty clunk1' and the result is that most things are unregulated because
itrs just too currrbersorrre. People tr:t to avoid the Process. what werre
going to be proposing is not onl1, a ver:r corqprehensive set of regulations
for operations such as Moon valley and there is another one b:, the rra]t on
the Jeurissen farr, that has sorr'e similarities. Irle're going to be proposing
those conditions but wer re also Proposing rrrethods by which rrre can
adr',instratively hanille graaling perr,its up to a point at which point those
grading perr'its need to be reviewed blt the City Council and l,ourselves in
public hearing. And the cit:, Attorney is drafting that right now. It
should be on ]rour next n,eeting.
Mayor Chr,ieI: Restoration. . .
Planning Con,r,i ss i on Meeting
Eebruar), 21 , L990 - Page 27
Planning
Febr uar!'
Corm,ission
2L, L99A -
Meeting
Page 28
Krauss : Sure. Restoration. Environniental ir,pact. Making sure thatland is legitirtiately utilizable for soF,ething after the1,,re done with
Conrad: 7 & 8. 8 ere took a look at.
Etr,ings: I donrt reF,etr,ber.
EIlson: What happened ?
Conrad: It was quick. I was leading that one too.
Olsen! Is there son,ething on the back of :,our page?
Enrn,ings: Yeah. 7r I and 9.
Olsen: Is that where group hon,es is?
Conrad: Yeah -
Olsen: Ours doesn't have it.
Conrad: Paulrs got his group hone on the back. Anything else on thelist? For the list? B:, the list?
Er,r,ings: I thought of an issue that we looked at in the past. Itrsfor the list but while werre talking about this I thought about thatnurserl, down on TH 101. The folks across the street were having allrunoff fror, that nurser]r. Whatever happened to that issue?
the
it...
not
tha t
olsen: Itrs still corting through. One of the conditions is that the!, hadto go back through the conditional use perr,it again and he is r,aking thatapllication so ]'orr will be seeing it again for his expansion that he didrrithout getting a conditional use pern it.
Etdhings: But is the nater sti1l through the neighbors?
Olsen: The!, put in ar I just sent blank on what it is.
Erhart: Like a berrr there.
Conrad 3barrier.Well no the], put in the plastic hrith, the]r,ve got a plastic
Olsen: The:, put in a trench or whatever lrou caII it along TH 101 withinthe highway's right-of-wa!' so the water...
En,rrrings: On which side of the road?
Olsen: On their side. On the nurserl, side.
Er.tt,ings: Oh, okay.
Planning
February
Cor,r, i ss i on2r, 1990 -
ueet i ng
Page 29
Olsen: Oh lreah. But I
ther, though. Itrs just still see water going across. It wasnrt aII fro$,thatrs the natural waf it tlrains.
Conrad: An]tbod:r, an!' corrrrrents
the last Ci tlr Council?
on the report frorr the Planning Director and
Conrad: Yeah.
Itrs worth your
di scus s?
get these
Anyth i ng
Fun to
tirr,e.
Pau 1
el se
antl what happened at Cit], Council.
in our packet that we want to
Ermiings: Therer s a new article that just
Review on zoning that looks like it r,ightafter I read it I think it is, Irll get it
will go around. But it looked like it was
in the Minnesota Lawof interesting and if
and lrou can decide if itbasic and interesting.
Calte OUt
be kind
to ltotrkind of
Conrad: Next r,eeting is going to be, Ietrs
7th? Itrs a light nreeting Paul?
see the next r,eeting is the
Krauss: The 14th would be a special r,eeting for the Cor',prehensive PIan.
Err,F,i ngs Frov€d 7
and the nrot i on
Ellson seconded to adjourn the neeting. A11 voted in favor
carried. The r,eeting was adjourneil at 9:08 p.r,..
Subr,i ttedDirector o
Paul Krauss
Planning
byf
Prepareal bv Nann Opheir,
Olsen: And then they al.so bermeil up erhere r'ost the water was corr,ing antl
then the:t ptrt . . .
Err'&,ings: So the]r've taken sorr,e steps?
Erhart: The wa!, the roaCl contours there is the real problenr.
Erdr'ings: Nice report. Nice to have the report.
A
B.
4. Sign Orilinance
5. Update Zoning Code
6. Tree Ordinance - Mapping ofsignificant vegetative areas
7. Rezoning of 2l Acres Lotsto RR District
C. OTEER ITEUS
1. Computerize land use files,permits, conditions andexpiration dates on a par-
ce1 by parcel basis
Reappraisal on wetland i ssues ,ordinance and mapping in
conjunction rrith storm rrater
management
ONGOING ISSUES
COI,IPREEENSIVE PLAN ISSUBS
. Comprehensive Plan Upilate
. Amendments to lttUSA Bounalary
. Future Use for Areas Out-side the MUSA Boundary
ZONING CODE AI{ENDUBNTS
. Update zoning ltap
. Bleniling Ordinance
. Rezoning BF Distict co A-2
Definition of structures
Shoreland Ordinance
Flood Zone Ordinance
Grad i ng,/Mi neral Extraction
Adoption 9,/9 0
Adoption 9,/9 0
I995 Study Areas
Ongoi ng
Inactive *
I nact ivestaff & city Attorneydrafting a proposal
Inactive
Ongoing
Working with DNR Forester
DNR Inventory due spring, I99
fnactive
1
3
1
2
3
2
Ongoing
CUP's completed
Staff processing a position
paper to review iretland
ordinance & enforcement
Budgeted money for update2 year timefrane
Review Malch, 1990
Sunmer, L990
Spring, 1990
March, 1990 - CC directedstaff to expedite.
REVISED FEBRUARY 15, 1990
STATUS
3.
4.
5.
6.
I
' nsvrsED FEBRUARY 15, r99o
ONGOING ISSUES STATUS
7 R-15 District
8. ZOA Bank with drive-thru in
BH District
9. Review legislation anil
ordinance pertaining togroup homes .
PC Review Feb. 7, 1990
PC Review Feb. 7, 1990
April, 1990