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06-20-90 Agenda and PacketFile AGENDA Wednesday, June 20, 1990, 5:30 p.n. WORX SESSION Dinner vill be serrred I Discussion of Iand Use Issues - Prinarily devoted to continueddiscussions of Officer/Industriat Uses south of the railroadtracks. UUSA line inpacton property taxes. Discussion of June 6th neeting and direction as to furthervork and/or neetings. Discussion of Transportatl.on planning element. 2 3 4 AGENDA CHANHASSEN PI,ANNING COI,TMISSION WEDNESDAY, JtNE 20, LggO, 7.30 p.l,t. CHANIIASSEII CITY HALIJ, 690 COULTER DRIVE CAI,L TO ORDER PUBLIC HEARTNGS 1. Wetland Alteration per:mit to construct a walkray path througha Class A rretland to access a dock located at ZO1S Sandy Hookcircle, chris Enger for Iotua Iake Bettement Association. ol,p BusrrEss NEII BUSINESS APPROVAT OF T{INTITES CITY COI'NCIL I'PDATE ONGOINC ITEUS ADIIINISTRATTVE APPROVALS OPEN DTSCUSSION 8130 P. . 2. Iand lrse Plan Discussion - Area Iocated South of Hsy. 5. AI\,OT'RNIiIENT CITY OF EH[[IH[SSEN 690 COULTER DBIVE. P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 I.IEUORANDITU TO: FROU: DATE: SUBJ: Plannlng Connission PauI Krauss, Planning Director June 13, 1990 6r- property Tax Impacts of the UUSA Line Ex;ransion Dgrins public ueetings on the uusA Line ex;ransion, residents haveoften asserted a berief that the proposed uuse r,ine expansion uoutahave-a-91{g"t inpact on property-values. rt uas asse-rted that theavarrablrrty of sewer would directry result in an increase invaluation, hence higher property tales, with it U.i"!- t"rtir".stated. that higher property taxes would force people to lelave ttreirproperty or to develop .!I_ren p:ematurely. to ciarify the issue,staff held a neeting with orlin shaff-r, the carvei county TaxAssessor. I{r. shaffer rras very helpfu} and providea eiclrrentinfornation- He indicated that -the fresence oi an expanaea uuseLine wi1-1 -ngl_ by itself result in intreased property 'vatuaiions. The avai.l-abirity of municipar utirities is conlsiaier"d, "rra-ii tt.yare available the vahre of the property generally rises in ananount coumensurate with the value of thoJe utiriiies. However,the uusA Line itself uiLl not resurt in this re-evatuation.' Forthis to occur, ur. shaffer has indicated that the serrer rine nustbe s.tubbed. into .a particular paic€l, hence service is actuallyavaiLabre to that property. staff has Lndicated on a nunber ofoccasions -t-o the pubtic tlat the UUSA Line expansion does notautonatically resurt in. the -avairablrity of nunici-par utilities, itonly guarantees the potentiar availability. ttrui it i= unrifeiythat there sill be a direct tax inpact fron uusa Line expansion. l,lr. Shaffer also discussed the creen Acres tax designation. Thecreen Acres designation uas ertabli'hed by the stite to avoidglacilg unreasonable financial burdens on -agricultr.,..1 !rop..tythat lie6 in the path of urbanization. rt is iequirea trrit-liicersunder the creen Acres designation be at least 10- acres in size andbe used for agricurtural use. ur. shaffer indicated that ttrlie areparcels north of Highlray 5 that do have the green acres designatj.onwhich would afford then an additional measure of protectioi. Planning cornnission ilune 13, 1990 Page 2 Lastly, I tried to deteroine whether or not property values arerising in anticipation of a l{UsA Line relocation which sas another assertlon by individuals at the neetings. r discussed this natteruith the City Uanager and it sas his opinion that to the extentthat there is speculative value being experienced on some of theproperties in this area, that it is already there. In other words,property values have already rigen. ur. shaffer indicated thatproperty values were beginning to rise long before the City ever considered a uUsA Line amendment primarily for the fact that the Iand Eupply is a linited one and land availability in the path of urbanization represents a linited and potentially valuable asset. This is reflected in land sales uhich serve as one of the prinary inputs Lnto getting a value on a parcel. He indicated horrever thatan increased property value in one place, for exarnple north of Highlray 5, uould not autonatically result in increased valuationfor property elserrhere in t-his area since each property is evaluated individually. Thus conclusions of the type that vere drawn by Eric Rivkin are probably unrealistic and uould appear to create rrhat may be unuarranted fears. Ur. Shaffer indicated a uillingness to address this matter at apublic hearing if so desired. If there are other questions thatthe Planning comrnission nay have regarding tax issues, please give ne a call so that I Day convey then to ur. shaffer. orlin shaffer, county AsaessorCity Council CITY OF EH[NH[SSEI{ UEI,TOR,ANDUII{ TO: FROU: DATE: SURI: Planning CounissLon Paul Krauss, plannlng otrector @t-, June 13, 1990 The June 6th Deeting was quita interesting fron a number ofstandpoints. I believe that f fairly conclusively demonstrated thedifficulty of relLance on resident petitions to provide directionfor developlng Conprehensive Plans, There uas clearly a crosssection of opinlon as to those rrho favored being inside the IIIUSAand those that wish to rernain outside of it. The neeting wasuseful in that it clarified the fact6 to those who were present,i.e. either one is inside the UUSA LLne and has the advantage ofhaving the potential of being able to develop should they sochoose, or being outside the UUSA Line and trading off assurancesthat the status quo vill be naintained for losing developnentpotential in any tlT)e of reasonable tine frane. It is atilluncLear to staff uhether or not there is a najority of opinion oneuay or the other. Frankly, I am not sure the goal should be todeternine where the najority interest lies. We believe thePlanning Coonission may be better served by using this inforrnationin conjunction sl,th rrhat you have obtained previously to determinewhat represents tbe best longi. rang6 inter€ats of the com![unity. Request for Direction on Ho!, to Proceed Relative to Land Use Plan [orth of Highway 5 We believe that you have several options in resoLving this natteralthough it has already or soon rill cone dorn to the fact that you have a very difficult decision to nake. If anything is clear, itis obvious that whatever you decide to do, there will be winnersand losers - at least those that perceive thenselves as such. Ibelieve you have the folloring options: 1. You can detemlne that you have sufficient infornation to uakea deternination as to shether or not the original MUSA Lineproposal or the alternative that uas presented should beselected. Both sides of hte issue have had sone opportunityto state their positions and ]arge amounts of data have been 690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-s739 2.You can direct staff to organize a neighborhood meetingspecifically to discuss and hopefully clarify this issue. 3.You can seek to obtain additlonal inforration by other Eeans. Thls could potentially include a nailed survey drafted by theCity, neighborhood neetings or some other mechanism. staff could also be directed to seek other alternatives. Staff would have concerns nith either of these options for several reasons. Fundanentally we believe that it is staffrsresponsibility to provide you with the best possible infornation and alternatives for your consideration. we rrouldbe reluctant to subnit rrhat may be construed as a counterpetition to the one that Mr. Rivkin circulated or beconeothenrise enbroiled in the decision rnaking process in thismatter. As to the possibility of other alternatives, r aDreally at a loss to suggest what they night be. we havectarified the issue relative to the lilUSA Line to the point where it has been stated that either one is inside or outside the uUsA Line and should understand the consequences of both. Large lot zoning uithout sewer inside the UUSA of the typeproposed by l,tr. Rivkln is not currently an acceptablesituatlon to the t{etropolitan Council and rre betieve rrould cause a good deal of difficulty and expense for the City inthe long run. It is also in violation of our currentordinances and of the Lake Ann Interceptor contractual Agreer0ent that the City entered into rrith other conmunities and the uetropolitan Council. staff is looking for the Planning Coromissionr s guidance on thisnatter. This is not a decision we can unilaterally nake at a staff leve1 . Given the tirne constraints ue are working under, plus thefact that we only have one neeting in JuIy, it is inperative that you give us this dlrection at the June 20th meeting so that rre may proceed irlth any of these courses of action or anything else thatyou nay direct us to consider. Planning coDmisslon June 13, 1990 Page 2 provlded. fhe orlginal plan and the alternative plan represent significant changes that nust be resolved before theplan can be finalized. CITY OF EH[I{H[SSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 5531 7 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 ITEUORANDI'U TO: Planning Conrnission FROU: DATE: suBT: June 14, 1990 fransportation plan Elenent Attached you wilr find the first draft of the Transportation pran :1.r:T :I jh"^s"Aprehensive plan. sone updatins riir u--i"qoi."ar.n the next 30-60 days to incorporate resultJ of two on-:goingstudies. PauI Krauss, planning Director 0p Transportation (6/eo) TRAt{SPORTATI OII I n t rod u c t i on / Ba c kg rou nd l. 0esignation of an interchange at Highway 101 at TH 212 tosecure access to downtown Chanhassen. The interchange hassince been incorporated into current plans and of f icia-l mapsfor the new highway. Transportation is an i ssue that faces almost all Chanhassen res i dent s on a dai ly bas i s. tlost of the community,s res.idents wor k outs ide Chanhassen's boundar i es. V i rtua I1y a1t res idents rely onpersonal automobi les for daily transportation. Therefore, trivelto employment combined with shopping trips, entertainment ahd othertravel needs results in first hand experi ence and knowl edge of the'local and regional roadway system. Chanhassen's highway system is directly linked with the growth anddevelopment of -the community. As traffic levels bui1d, inadequateaccess can affect the locational decisions of 'prosoective residents., empl oyers and reta i I businesses. Li nkages tb p I aces ofemployment outside of the community also plays a significint role. The City of Chanhassen has had an extensive history of interactingwith other government agencies and utilizing seli initiative torespond to -transportation issues. For a numbEr of years, the Cityhas actively worked on the planning and jmplemeitatidn of thi !pgrading of TH 5 and invested time and money into the IH ?Lz Env ironmenta.l Ilnpact statement. process. These eiforts are reach i ngfruition with TH 5 improvements under construction to County Road 17 gld Highw_a^y ?LZ being officially mapped and partiaily finded. Cont i nua I efforts are needed to see these projects through tocompletion. The. City- participated in the Highway 7 Corridor Study with othermunicipa1ities, the Metropolitan CounciI and l,lnD0T. -This effortis expected to result-in incremental improvements along the highwayover time. Hennepin County is continuing its efforts Io exten'd t tr-ecrosstown Highway to the northeast cornel of chanhassen wh.ich willimprove access to the northern portion of the community. In 1987' the city commissioned a traffic study entitled 'year 2005Land Use and Transportation Study,,. Based upon land useprojections that were current at inat time. the study was todevelop a transportation system plan for the Chanhassen C g'O is weiias major routes in the nor-thern portion of the city. The sturry wasbased !n a projection of 18,900 people and 7,800 jobs.in thecommunity. by. the.. year. 2005. These proje.ctions ara no longerconsistent yith those _being used by the City in its long rangepl ann i ng efforts. The Year Z0ti5 study - made a seri es of r e c omme n d a t i o n s , most of which haye sincC been implemented orprogrammed. These include: 1 (6/e0 ) 2. Real ignment of TH 101 with intersection improvements at TH 5.The City is presently preparing plans to undertake the real ignment of the Highway 101/Highway 5/l{est 78th Street i ntersect i on under a self-financed program. PIans to real i gn Highway 101 south of Highway 5 haye been developed with asection of future TH 101 constructed to serve Rosemount's facil ity. The Iocation of 101 has been modified from the Year 2005 study due to its being shiftecl from Dakota Avenue to a location to the l{est that aligns with new ltlarket BouleYard. This al ignment was sel ected based upon the 'Highway 101/5 Prel iminary Al ignment and Land Use Corridor StudJ' completedin 1989. Futuie expansions of Highway 101 will occur as needed to serve new devel opment. Ful I improvement of the corridor may not occur until new TH 212 ts constructed. Real ignment of the Iest 78th Street/County Road intersection to provide adequate stacking distance from TH This project is underway and will be completed by the City 1990. 3. 4. Creation of a new CB0 access to Highway 5 to accommodate development and to reduce congestion at other intersections. This was completed by the City in 1989 with the construction of Market Boulevard. t{ith a signalized intersection at TH 5' Market Boulevard will eventually have continuitJ t{ith real igned H i ghway 101. 0ther less specific recommendations included working with the Countv and State to determi ne the future of TH 101' This issue is as ye[ unresolved. The report also recommended continued study of area roads with the County to develop a comprehensive roadwal plan. In 1989, the City entered into an agreement with Carver County, the cities of Chas ka, Victoria, CarYer and llaconia to undertake the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. l{ith the retent i on of a traffic consultant, the study is intended to develop a thorough understanding of existing traffi c prob lems, anticipate f uture access needs and develop a comprehens ive roadway system plan. Datagathered from the traffic modeling program is expected toconstitute the most accurate traffic growth projections to date. The expectations of this study are supported bJ the fact that theparticipating communities and particularly Chanhassen have experienced growth rates that are far in excess of those anticipated in the Metropol itan Counci I's regional model . The reg i oni l mode l is currently used as the basic i nput in most traffic studies. In addition, the more localized focus of the study permits a more detailed analysis to be performed. The results of the stucly are being incorporated into the Comprehensive PIan. Chanhassen has had a I ong and act i ve i nvo I vement in transportationplanning, programming and financing. The effort is expected to continue as the community develops over the next l0 t0 20 years. 2 t7 5. in (6/e0) Regional Highxay Pl ans The overali objective of the regional highway plan as identifiedin the Metropol itan Development Guide is to maintain approximately the same level of regional accessibility that exists at the presenttime. Congestion which is a part of the existing system will also be present in the future system. Removal of congestion has been determined to be economically infeasible due to capital and socialcosts. The Metropol i tan counc i I al so bel ieves that a congestionfree system would produce negative impacts on transit usage Hhich would make it more difficult to serye the transit dependentpopulation. Do regional policies preclude future transportation improvementsin Chanhassen? The answer to this question is no. The basis ofthe l,letropolitan Council's Transportation Plan is thattransportation priority must be to maintain those facilities thatserve existing development in the urban service drea.Adclitionaily, the plan recognizes that funding will be necessaryto improve the minor arterial system (T.H.5) ln the region. The tran sportat i on system is i nseparab I e from Chanhassen's I and usepattern. The development of commercial, industrial and residentialareas must be integrated by the transportation system. As new development continues to take place, traffic impacts w.i li need tobe closely moni tored and analyzed, Although the primary mode of transportation for Chanhassenresidents is the private automobile, other modes are also utilized.As a result, the transportation sect i on add res ses mass transitwhich includes ride sharing, van pools, buses and possibly lightrail transit. l{on-motorized modes, specifically walking andbicycling are addressed in the trail section of thii plan which isfound within the recreat ion chapter. Chanhassen Street Sy s tem 3 Chanhassen's existing street system consists of a series of Iocalstreets , col I ectors, mi nor arteri al s and major arterial s. Theexhibit entitled Chanhassen Existing Street System portrays theroad system and funct ional classifications that exist .in 1990.This information was derived from recent work activities associatedxith the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. The exi st i ng street network includes approximately 75 miles ofroad. 0f this total, 951 are payed with permanent surfacing. lr @ 3 --.1 = !t I l! c,l\l a cllAf,tAssil Existing Functional Classif ication IIIIooo Principal Arterial Minor Arteiial - Cl Minor Arterial - C Collector - Class ! ass l -- lass IfTIIT -- I ,r , 7 ,I \ r = T tr / t.'_\ a '*-7 I.lj ni I t;l'D t( , -- TTT= a t I I I :::-ri:i =tr.-' EI f !;1il1ff aaf ry .- r,,x I I _--J /FF (6/e0) STREET CLASSIFICATION TH7 TH5 TH 41 TH IO1 TH 2I2 TH T69 TH 169 l,linnewashta Pa r kway Gal pin Boulevard Powers Bl vd. (17) Kerber 8ou I evard llar k et Bou I eyard Lake Lucy Road Pleasant View Rd Lake Dri ve East Audubon Roa d Pioneer Tra i I Bl uff Creek Drive Lake Riley Blvrl In exami n i ng prob I em i s north/south Ilest Limittiest Limitilorth Limit North Limitllest Limit TH 2L2 rH 2L2 TH5 TH7liorth Limi tCo. Rd. 17 l,lest 78th St Galpin Bl vd Co. Rd. l7 Dakota Ave TH5Ilest Limit Pi oneer Tr Lyman Blvd North L imit East Limit South LImit South Limit L69 l2L2 East Limit South Limit TH7 TH5 Lyman Bl yd .tlest 78th st TH5 Co. Rd. 17 TH 101 TH 101 Chas ka Limit East Limit TH 2L2 East L imit Pr i n il'in Min Min Hi n Art Art Art Art Art Art Art cl cl cl cl CIIin llin Col I Col I ect Co l I ect Co l I ect Collect ect Collect Col I ect ColIect Collect Col I ect Collect Collect cl cl cl CI cl cl cl cl cl cl CI cl CI Chanhassen has d i fferent policies pertaining to constructionstandards for urban versus rural streets. Urban roadways arerequired to dedicate 50 feet of right-of-way for local streets anda 28. foot wide paved area is required. Rural roadways are also req u i recl to hav e b i tumi nous sur fac i ng in a 24 foot widtn containedwithin a 6.0 foot right-of-way. Current city policy also allows theconstruction of private driveways prov.iding suCh drives do notserve more than four single family residences. In such cases,60 f9.! of right-of-way is _required r.ith the roadwaJ cons.isting of a28 foot wide grave l surface. Transportation Issues/Systenr 0eficiencies Key: Prin Art - Principal Arterial l.lin Art - Cl I - l,linor Arterial - Class Il,lin Art - Cl II - Minor Arterial - Class II Col lect - Cl I - Collector - Class I The function of a transportation pl an is to not only accommodatefuture needs but also to analyze existing problims and poseappropriate solutions. Frequently, existing problems are closelyrel ated to future need s. As a resu I t, a specific act i on in a givenarea can remedy existing deficiencies whi le providing for futureneeds. Chanhassen's existing tTansportation system, a generalreadi ly apparent. The sJstem prrivides- adequateaccess in terms of facility locations but is deficient 5 EXISTIIIG CHAXHASSEII STREET SYSTEII F R()II T() I IIIIIIIII I I I I I I I I I I I I I tt dlt a GIUU+IILSSEI' System Deficiencies O htersectiotrs/Access - Qsp66i1y/Conneclions . A lurlsOictaonat Conthuity ?---il+i-r# t!I rl t-I lr rl il I r !-la 12 3et li ! ta , I = I I P Z. tt aaf L .!E .rr, 'r. 6 I I ; I II i t- lr L (^ ;Jl I I Iri rttl:ill il (6/s0) in east/west routes. In5 is located 3.5 miles spac i ng of one mile for area. the northeastern part of the ci ty, T.H.from T.H. 7. This compares to maximumnorth/south routes in the same general Issues and system deficiencies can be categorized into three typesof conditions: 1) intersections, ?) road capacity/alignment/ connections and 3) jurisdictional continu'ity. Each of these topicsis add ressed individual ly. Intersections/Access :In-fer s ectl ons thatrEurren Chanhassen contains atly are experiencing problems. number of A summaryof these occurs as fol I ows. 1. T.H. 5/Uest 79th Street/T.H. 101 - At the lJest 79th Streetintersection, significant turn movements occur including:exiting traffic from 79th Street, through volumes on T.H. 101and left turns from the south to lJest 79th Street. At theintersection of T. H. 101 and T. H. 5, signif i cant turn movement volumes include left turns from the north to T.H.5, throughtraffic on T. H. 5 and left turns from the east to ine southon T.H. 101. Specific problems in th is area include thefollowing: Capac i ty probl ems at T.H. 5/T. H. 101 . for se I ec ted turn movementsStreet in I ight of overal I Potent'i al d i f f i cu lt i esat T.H. 101/l,lest 79thtraffi c volumes. L imi ted weav i ng the east on T.Street. d i stance forH. 5 turning veh i c'l esleft into comrng l{est from 79th Recent improvements in this area coupled with the improvementsto TH 5 that are now under constructi on wi l1 hel p al leviatethese probl ems. Market Boulevard which yas opened in 1999provides a western entrance/exit for the businesses along llest 79 th Street. The rebuilding of TH 5 will enhance the existingTH 101 intersection and TH l0l north of TH 5 will be recon stru cted to al ign with Dakota Ayenue in 1991 to 1992. 2. TH 5/ Dakota Avenue - This intersection improvement durin improvement pro jec It T.H. 5/CSAH l7 - As continued development takes place indolrntown Chanhassen, projections indicate a significantproblem at the intersection of T.H. 5 an CSAH 17. Limited stacki ng di stance on the north approach could resu l t in queues blocking the intersection of llest 78th Street and County Road17. Th is situation is scheduled for improvement in 1991 and 1991 and 1992 asfor TH 5. is schedu l ed forpart of l,lnD0T' s 3 7 (6/e0) t992. Yideningin 1992. South of and turn TH 5, CSAH l7 is scheduled for roadway lane improvements by the City of Chanhassen 4.T.H. 7 / l,{ i n n e vi a s h t a Parkway - The major problem rrith thisintersection is the angle with which northbound llinnewashta Parkway joins T.H. 7. As a result, it is clifficult, toidentify eastbound traffic on T.H.7 and turning movementsfrom eastbound 7 to southbound l,linnewashta Parkwal are cumbersome. The City of Chanhassen has tentatively scheduled improvements to Minnewashta Parkway in 1991. T.H. 5/Lone Cedar Lane - The sight d i s tance for southbound traffic on Lone Cedar Lane looking west along T.H. 5 isrestricted by a hill. Chanhassen has entered into a cooperative agreement with l{n00T to close the existing access to TH 5 and replace it wi th a cul -de-sac. T. H. 5 / Lake Ann Park Access - The access to Lake Ann Park is directly off of the north side of T.H.5. Left turn movements either into or out of the park are hazardous due to the volume of traffic on T.H. 5. Park users frequently encounter significant waiting per i ods in exiting the park, particularly at peak hours. In the future' access to the park may be realigned off of a frontage road along the north side of Highway 5. ( 6 7 6 T.H. 101/96th Street - At this intersection, exists due to the vertical curve of T. H. 101. distance was enhance by the removal of trees Further improvements are unlikely until reconstructed in the future. a blind I n 1989,in the curve s ight area. isTH 101 Pioneer Trail and T.H. 101 - Sight distance problems occur for traf f ic on Pioneer TraiI due to the verti cal curvature of T.H. 101. Improvement of this situation requires a comprehensive approach and is not likely to occur until TH 101 is improved in southern Chanhassen. T. H. 101/Soo Line Rai I road Trac ks - At this i ntersect i on , the roadway passes beneath the railroad tracks, however' the width and angle of the bridge make it hazardous for oncomingyehicle!. The rail line is scheduled for future abandonment' howeyer, removal of the bridge may not occur until TH 101 is reconstructed. 10. U.S. 2L2lT.H. LOl - This intersection southbound T. H. 101 traff i c desiring to ?L2 due to heavy traffic volumes. is turn for onto hazardous eastbound 11. u.s. t69-2L2lr.H. i ntersect i on have 101 - Recent improvementssignificantly improved safety. to this Heavy 8 9. traffic volumes continue to pose problems in this area. The construction of new TH ?LZ in the f utu.re will remove some ofthe existing traff i c in this area. 12. Bluff Creek Driye/Soo Line Railroad Tracks - Bluff Creek Drive was improved by the City of Chanhassen in 1987. This proiect Irhich included the addition of lights and warning arms greatly improved safety in th is area. The intersecting angle of the roadway and tracks still limits clear sight distance. This situation will be completely resolved in the future when the rai I road tracks are abandoned. 13. T.H. 7/Lake l,l'innewashta area - T.H. 7 in northwestern Chanhassen al ong the north s ide of Lake Minnewashta intersectsa number of local streets. Due to heavy traffic volumes,particularly during peak hours, turning movements in this areaare difficult. In this area, T.H. 7 does not contain lanesspecifically designed to accommodate free flowing traffic. Eventual implementation of the recommendations contained inthe TH 7 Cor r i dor Study wi 1l improve conditions in this area. 14. Audubon Road near Sunr i dge Court - Existing s ight distancesin this area are inadequate to the vertical curvature of Audubon Road . Improv ement of th is area is scheduled for 1990or 1991. 15, TH 5/Arboretum Entrance - Turn i ng movemehts into and out ofthe Arboretum are compl icated by the heavy traffic vo lumes al ong TH 5. In the future, this situation should b addressedthe reconstruction of the brestern segment of TH 5. Road IN Ca ac it /A1i nment/Connect ions: 0ef iciencies in this category Yolumes, problemslack of Spec i f i c are ev en ue o capac r y pro ems create d by excess i vealignment 1 T. H. 5 - T. H. 5 is the transportat ion backbone of Chanhassen. Users of Highway 5 are aware that excessive congestion on thisroute occurs at yarious tines of the day with concentrationsduring peak hours. Portions of T. H. 5 are overloaded for upto 8 hours per day. Approximately 7,000 to 7,500 vehicles per day is used to justify a four lane facility. In 1986, T.H.5 carried 20,500 vehicles per day at Chanhassen,s easternborder. T. H. 5 is al so unique because it carries 'reversecommutingx patterns. Employment opportunities in Chanhassenattract workers who travel vestbound during the morning hoursand eastbound in the evening. Th is movement counters Chanhassen residents who nork in other locations in the TwinCity area, most of which lie east of Chanhassen. are a signa examp lsli Ie U issues, or due to connection problems. Capacity caused by a lack of proper lane channelization,zation or due to the frequency of accesses.s of such c i rcumstances incIude the following: (6/e0) I (6/e0) At the present time, T.H.5 is being improved. By 1991, T.H 5 will exist as a four lane divided high!,ay from a point 3feet east of Chanhassen's east border of T.H. 494. A Iett ing date is scheduled for replacement of the C.ltl. S& P Railroad bridge south of the Chanhassen CBD. schedul ed is the wi den i ng of T.H. 5 to four 'lanes fromof CSAH Ll to the point 3,000 feet east of Chanhassen's eastern border. Improvements that are currently underway xill significantly improve cond itions on T.H. 5. It is extremely important in the future that the City continue to monitor funding levels to ensure that current plans are implemented. The City wil I continue to support the expansion of TH 5 to four lanes from CSAH l7 to Chinhassen's western border. Aclditionally, the future funct i on of T.H. 5 is dependent on the construct i on of new T.H. 212. llithout nev 2L2, T.H. 5 wilI again be quickly oyer capacity, eyen vith the implementation of planned improvements. T.H. 101 - Trunk Highway l0l is classified as a temporarJ trunk highway and as such, it has not received appropriations for any improvements with the exception of absolute minimumnecessitiei. Recently, Hennepin County to acceptedjurisdiction of T.H. 101 within County boundaries. Since a iubstantial portion of T.H. 101 is in CarYer County and Chanhassen specifical ly, jurisdict ional and funct iona l continuity are significant concerns that could have maior consequenaes for the city. The jurisdict-ionaI problem_is furthdr compounded by the need for T.H. 101 improvements. The highway has significant alignment and geometric problems particularly south of T. H. 5. Chanhassen needs to take the lead role in promoting the improvement of TH 101. Pleasant View Road - Pleasant View Road serves as the only east/west connection between CSAH 17 and T.H. 101 in northern Chanhassen. The existing roadway alignment is inadequate in several areas. Sharp curves, garages located at theright-of-way f ine, hidden driveways and frequent vistas of Lotus Lake which serYes as a distraction, all combine to create potential ly dangerous conditions. Prev i ou s efforts to improve Pleasant View Road have been unsuccessful. As a reiult, the inadequacies of this route will continue tointensify in the future as traffic volumes continue to lncrease. CSAH 17 - County Road 17 currently extends south of TH 5 to Lyman Boulevard. In the future, it will be possible to extend the route to new TH 2L? and south to Pioneer Trail. South of Pioneer Trai I , further extension is not feasible due toexisting development and extreme variations in topography. Therefore, Chanhassen's only reasonable opportunity for a '00199t. Al s we5 0 I P 0t 2 4 10 3. (6/e0) comprehensive north/south rninor arterial route lies in the improvement of the T.H. 101 corridor. Jurisdictional Continuity: Chanhassen contains a number of roads which pass through the commun ity and into other municipaIities. Because these routes fall under a variety of jurisclictions, continuity problems can occur. Routes of particular interest to Chanhassen i nc I ude the fol I owi ng : CSAH 17 - County Road l7 seryes as one of Chanhassen's majornorth/south routes. llithin the city, this route has adequateright-of-uay, sight distance, grades and setbacks to maintaina 45 to 50 mile per hour speed l imi t. North of Chanhassen,horrever, this road takes a different form as it enters Shorewood and Excelsior. I 2 3 LocaI Street Inprovement s In Shorewood, Caryer County 17 becomes Hennep in County 82.Tight setbacks, poor sight distances, individual driveway accesses and reduced speeds exi st in this area. As a resu 1t,the effectiveness of CSAH 17 as a northern access to T. H. 7is diminished once it cros ses Chanhassen,s border. CSAH 117 - CSAH 117 is very similar to CSAH 17. The routefunctions effectively unti I it reaches the northern port i onof Chanhassen where its al i gnment restr i cts traff i c movement. T. H. 5 - Issues pertaining to T. H. 5 have been previouslypresented. The jurisdictional continuity of T. H. 5 isextremely important to Chanhassen. Chanhassen nilI need tocontinually monitor l.lnD0T plans for this route as well as thedesires of adjacent municipal ities to ensure that T. H. 5continues to function at the highest feasible level ofserv i ce, T. H. 101 - T. H. 101 is d i scussed extensively in other sectionsof this chapter. It has significant jurisdictional continuityprobl ems with i n Chanhassen's borders. As Chanhassen cont i n ues to devel op, transportation confl i cts andinconsistencies will become evident. These situations, unlikeplanning for major routes, are not predictable since they resultfrom the merging of existing and new Iand use patterns. Thefollowing situations exist at the present time. Tanadoona Driye-Dogwood Road/Crimson BaJ Road - At the presenttime, Crimson Bay Road does not connect to Doglrood Road- Tanadoona 0r i ve. Correspondi ng Iy, both of these neighborhoodshave only one means of egress/ingress. A f uture street connect i on in this area is needed to al leviate existing access prob 1 ems . I 11 4. (6/e0) ?. Carver Beach Road Conditions - Chanhassen's Caryer Eeach neighborhood was one of the first res idential developments on Lotus Lake. This area consists of smal ler I ots and narro!, rights-of-way. Drainage problems occur due to topography and a lack of storm sewer facilit'ies in some portions of the area. Improvement of existing conditions can only occur in a comprehens ive manner involving the reconstruction of bothstreets and utility systems. Because of development constraints, typical street standards will not be appl icablein this area. Traffi c Assignment Zones The analysis and proi ect i on of reg i ona I traffi c condit ions is conducted utilizing a technique known as traffic assignment zones. Traffic assignment zones (TAZ's) are defined geographical areas within which- data such as population, employment and household information is collected. This data is analyzed through computer modeling techniques which results in forecasts of traffic movement between-zones. Utit izing this technique' it is possible to proiect travel and demand such as person-trip productions, person-tr i p attractions, intrazonal person trips and motor vehicle data such as average dai ly trips an-d peak hour t.r-ips. This data is valuable in both iocal and regional transportation planning. Chanhassen is contained within all or part of seven different traffic assignment zones. Zones 538, 848, and 852 contain smal I portions of Chanhassen and rel ate primari ly to Chaska and Eden Prairie. The remaining four zones 539 ' 540, 541 and 547 perta i n exclusively to Chanhassen. Chanhassen completed Traffic Assignment Zone proiections for as part of the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. fol I owi ng is a pre sentat i on of this iriformation: 2O1O TAZ PR()JECTIONS 2010 The lAL HOUSEHOLDS P()PULATION EMPL()YMENT 539-1 539-2 694 t28 395 t7 540-l 540 -2 540-3 540-4 540-5 540-6 540-7 540-8 540-9 540-10 364 149 L625 538 1032 484 1074 387 6lr 114 296 12 331 1804 333 140 288 625 207 397 186 413 149 235 tt t l !-lr --l -_l I l! il I ! r t! OTY OF cluufiAssEv aAsE rtt TRAFFIC ASSIGNMENT ZONES Sub-Aree Eoundri€s ti:ge]I la , -'t -.] 540- , 539-539-1 aBa- r1- 540-6 ' 4540-22' .-1,;Po-' I iijl 't P[rr_l I .'rc 1-3 .ai 547-1 al- L r.' rI,. ,x. I I I -.- t- i ,li (6/e0) IAZ HOUSEHOLDS POPULATION EMPLOYMENT 540 - 11 540-r2 540- 13 540-14 540-15 540-16 540-17 540-18 s40 - l9 540 - 20 540-21 540-2? 540-23 540-24 540-25 540-26 84 178 838 104 620 267 4s3 5 2L8 463 2t7I 270 L6L2 694 LL7 9 13 63 1694 1485 2645 r878 601 1563 267 49 351 275 988 541- l 541-2 541- 3 201 63 107 523 164 278 694 127 913 715 2569 63 131 L82 l0 150 812 500 547-l 848- I 852- I TOTAL 8 ,913 23,175 l3 ,09 5 Planned and Recommended llIpr oy emen t s Traffic on Chanhassen's roadway system Irill continue to increase due to new commercial, residential and industrial development and changes in socio-economic conditions. The impact of added traffic wi I I be more evjdent on the City's major streets, primari 1y the minor arter i al and col lector routes. In order to ensure that traffic concerns are addres s ed thorough ly and comprehensively, the transportation chapter of the Chanhassen Comprehensiye Plan conta'ins a planned and recommended roadwaJ system for the year 2000. This sJstem is the result of both current and past planning efforts including the 1980 Comprehensive P1an, the Year 2005 Land Use and Transportation study, the Highway 101/5 Preliminary Alignment and Land Use Corridor Study and the Eastern Caryer County Transportation Study. The following major improvements are components of the recommended and planned transportation system: 14 645 16 84 I I e --.1 = I afif oF Recommended System Major. Routes Lir;--=--t- O lntarchanges II, i- t U s :7 L-it _ Ml -r- 'rr rr I I!I 7 (6/e0) T.H. 5 - As was referenced previously in this report, T.H. 5 isEiIEn--tly being improved by the l,linnesota Department ofTransportation. By approximately 1992, T.H.5 will exist as a four lane road from west of CSAH 17 in Chanhassen to T.H.494 in EdenPrairie. This improvement nhich will include turn lanes will help mi tigate peak hou r traffic congestion in both Chanhassen and EdenPrairie. The City will continue to work to get TH 5 improved to Chanhassen's restern border. Chanhassen-Eden Prairie-Minnetonka border. The extens i on of route will have a major impact on T.H. l0l which serves as common Chanhassen/Eden Prairie boundary north of T.H.5. Crossto!rn Hi hwa /Townl ine Road ex ensron o own lne ro State Trunk Highway 212 - @n-lerCities al ong the corridor f.H. T01 and is classifiecollector roadway north toT.H. 5. It wi 1l provide a - This improvement wi lI entail m I-494 yest to T.H. l0l at funding to prepare an environmental impact statement (EIS) for theproject and are beginning offic ial mapping proceedings to secure right-of-way l{ithin the corridor. Plans call for T.H.212 to be built as a four lane freeway facility. As presently conceived, the route will be constructed through Chanhassen from T.H.5 to T.H. 41 during the I ate 1990' s. The proiect is presently partial ly f unded. Construction of T. H. 212 along a new consideration since the early 1950's. have recently cooperated in providi ng d by the City of Eden Prairie as a T. H. 5 and a minor arterial south of connection from Townline Road on the Del I Road/Uest 184th Avenue - 0el I Road in Eden Prairie paral lels north to Pioneer Trail on the south and will be phased in conjunction with area development. Depending upon its design and acciss to the State Trunk Highway system, Dell Road could play a greater or lesser traffic role than envisioned by the City of Eden Prairie. The 0el l Road/TH 5 intersection will be signalized aspart of the TH 5 improvement proj ect. Lake Drive - Lake Drive is a planned east/west col lector streetIoa-tEfsout h of T.H. 5. Lake Drive East was improved in 1986 from T. H. 101 to Dakota Avenue. Plans call for the exten s i on of Lake Drive east to Dell Road and yest to CSAH l7 in 1991. This route will serye as an important col I ector for Chanhassen' s eastern industrial area. T.H. 101 - Planning efforts since f980 have consistently r-d e n tr-T i ed the need for improvements to T.H. 101. Planned improvements north of T.H. 5 cons ist primarily of reconstruction and real i gnrnent of the route immediatelJ north of the intersection of T. H. 101 and Uest 78th Street to effectuate better traf f ic f low. 0a the thethis the 16 (6/e0) South of T.H. 5, major improvements are planned. The lgBO Comprehensive Plan and the 2005 Land Use and Transportation Study cal led for the total reai ignment of T.H. 101 between T.H. 5 and Lyman Boulevard. In reviewing the TH 101 corridor, the Cityrecognized that since the realignment will involve totalreconstruction, a unique opportunitJ exists to create T.H. 101 as an attractive approach to the community. The planned interchangeof T.H. 212 ar.d T.H. 101 will provide downtown Chanhassen and theindustrial area wi th a new entrance. In order to max imi ze visual and functional concerns, T. H. 101 is pl anned for reconstructi on as a boulevard/parkway with a Iandscaped median area from new T.H.zLzto T.H. 5. The a.lignment of TH 101 as it approaches TH 5 will berelocated to the west to intersect ilarket Boulevard. TH 5 will serve as a brief east/west link for TH 101 between llarket Boulevard and Dakota Avenue where the route wiIl cont i nue to the north. T.H. 5 froqtq!e B9a4 (Ttl 41 To CSAH l7)- A frontage road alongthe north side of Highway 5 betreEn CISAE 17 and TH 41 is plannedto serve short term and eventual ly I ong term devel opment i n thearea. 0nce the frontage road is constructed, the access i nto LakeAnn Park at T. H. 5 wi'l I be closed. The frontage road will alsoprovide direct access to the residential and neighborhoodcommercial uses planned along the north side of TH 5. T.H.7 (North Minrewashta Area) - A study of the entire T.H.71986. Various alternatives wereidentified to improve the corr i d or al ong the north side of La keMinnebrashta. The alternatives involved a variety of streetclosures and re-routings in the. residential areas east ofMinnewashta Parkway. The goal of the recommendations is to reducethe total number of i nters ec t i ons along the route thereby improv i ngtraffic flow. At the present time, Chanhassen and the othercommunities along the corridor are working nith HnD0T inimplementing the recommendations as funding becbmes available. T.H. 4l - Historically, the Mi n nesota Department of Transportationf'as fr-m an interest in realigning and extending T.H.4l south toand across the !linnesota River. To date, however, there are noplans to actually implement a new road along this alignment. This al ignment is identified on the Carver County Transportation Plan as a'study and/or reserve right-of-xayn corridor. It is notcurrently identified on Chanhassen's transportation system,however, it can be added if the County or State feel that therea'lignment is still justified. If appropriate, the City of Chanhassen will work with Carver County and the City of Chaska tofurther define the need for the realignment of TH 41 including thepossibility of a new river crossing. 17 (6/e0) IH lot/Proposed TH 2l hangesffi Chanhassen and construction o I .H. ?L2. inf an interchange at County Road 17 and Lake Lucy Road - The port i on of Lake LucJ Road between CSAH 17 and USAFTIT was reconstructed and real igned in 1987. Long term, thefurther extens i on of this route t{estward to T. H. 41 is pl anned. connecting TH 41 on the west and Galpin Boulevard on the east. This collector is to be located approximately 4'000 feet north of TH 5. exten s i on of Lake 0riveCo. Rd. 17 ) and Audubonh of TH 5 separates pl anned Eas t /l{es t Col I ector t{orth of TH 5 or e even ua cons ruc on o Lake 0rive Extension - An between Powers Bou levar al ignment of this rou te sou uses from planned res ident ial uses. East/llest Col I ector South of TH 5 an assen ransporta on sJrs em oe l{i nor arterial Col l ector Local ( Rural ) LocaI (Urban) - The transportat i on plan cal lsf a new east/west co l l ector d (t C is pl annedRoad. Theindustrial - At the present time, thes not accommodate east/uest movements, south of TH 5 between Audubon Road and TH 41. A collector roadway system in this area is needed to proYide accessto property and to discourage 1oca1 trips from using TH 5. Construct i on of a cont i nuous col I ector in this area is complicated by the existence of the existing Timberwood residential development and extensive wetlands west of Galpin Boulevard. In order toprovide needed access to this area, the plan calls for the construction of a roadway that extends i'lcGlynn Drive },estward to Galpin Bou I ev ard. The route crosses Galpin Bou I ev ard and connects to a nev. north/south collector road which in turn connects to 82nd Street on the south. Right-of-Iay Iidths The City of Chanhassen has d i rect control of all I ocal streets and some collectors and minor arterials. In order for each of theseroutes to fulfill their function, right-of-way widths have been established for each type of facil ity. These !ridth recommendations will be used in the review of all new street improvement proiects. Roadway Right-of-l,lay 100-150 60-100 60 50 feet feet feet feet 18 (6/e0) The selected right-of-waJ width for any street improvementis dependent upon existing and future traff i c capacities des ire for amenities along the route such as landscaped areas. Street Inprovements -Aoenities project and the median The City of Chanhassen has established an overall goal of implementing a transportation system which is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. Aesthetic enhancement of roadways is being accomplished through unified signage, lighting, and landscaping ofright-of-way areas. Landscaping of right-of-r,ay areas should be incl uded in ner{ construction projects and reconstruction ofexisting streets. A mix of plant materials shouid be used toprovide variety and color along right-of-wal areas. LocaI Street s In previous planning efforts, Chanhassen has considered localstreets as those primari iy serv i ng low traff i c residential areas. Due to decreases in State and Federal highway funding in recentyears, local streets have begun to play a role in handling trafficthat previously maJ have utilized State and County roadways. Examples of this situation are Trunk Highways 5 and 7 which carrysignificant traff i c volumes, particularly during peak hours. 0ueto congestion, motorists seek alternative routes for al I or partof their journeys. At times, these routes inyolve local roadways. Funding for new highways and the upgrading of existing facil itiesis not expected to significantly i ncrease in the near fu t ure. Asa resu l t, the Iocal circulation system is l ikely to exper i enceadditional traffic, an increased percentage of which is non-localorigin and destination trips. As I ocal street i mprovements are considered in the future, capacity projections shou ld reflect thepossibility of increased traffic if they have the potential toserve as urelievers' for higher classification roadways. Functional Classif ication 19 Functional classification involves the definition of roadways byfunction prior to identifying design characteristics such aspavement widths, speed Iimits and access controls. It is avaluable tool in comprehensive planning because it ensures that'land use decisions are considered in the transportation planning process. The lletropol i tan Counc i I uses funct i ona I classification to define those routes that are part of the metropol itan roadway system. They also use it to relate transit service to roadways. Functional classif ication is important to Chanhassen for planning purposes andbecause it relates to jurisdictional classification which is subsequently d i scus sed in this plan. lr 1 I E- L b /I e T tl e ! qrf c ollia{Asss, Recommended Sy Functional Glassif ication rllr aaa artl - stem* Principal Arterial Minor Arterial - Class I * Minor Arterial - Class ll Collector - Glass l! E:=+=+I I lat 3 I:fl -E r" rr I ? f ll L I I C r-..E Vl Three classifications of arterial roadrays exist. In a general sense, these roadways carrJ higher volumes of traffic at greater speeds with fewer interruptions. Roads with an arterialdesignation frequently are used f oli n tra- s tate travel as wel I asfor more regional ly or sub-reg ional ly oriented commuter trips. Chanhassen's Comprehensive Plan analyzed the following factors in def ini ng functional c I assification: l. Current functional and jurisdictional pl ans and policiesof the City, Carver County, the l.,letropol itan Council and l.lnD0T. Forecasted system. average dai Iy traffi c vo l umes on the roadrray2 3 Function of the I ocal needs; for r o ad Iray is Iocal Chanhassen. roadwaJs in meeting regional needs versusexample, how much traffic on a particulartraff i c yersus traff i c through the City of 4 Needs and abi I ities expenses. for funding capital and operating 5. The findings of the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. The exhibit entitled 2000 Functiona l Classification presents therecommended functional classification system. The recommendedsystem is general ly consistent with current Carver County plans. Major routes within the system include the fol lowing: Principal Arter i a I Highway 7 Highway 7 serves as one of Chanhassen's major I inks to the Itletropol itan area. The roadway carries substantial vehiculartraffic with movement general ly uninhibited by s ignals or majorstreet cross i ng s within Chanhassen' s I imits. To the east, hor,ever, Highway 7 passes through lrlinnetonka and northern Hopkins wheresignificant congest i on occurs during peak hours due to frequentsignal ized intersections and commercial development. Recently, a comprehensive plan for the upgrading of T.H. 7 was prepared. - To 21 ( 6/s0 ) The functional classification system breaks roadways down into ahierarchy of six categories. As the Ieast intensive c I a s s i f i c a t i o n s , local streets and Col I ectors - Class II provide access to propertJ and as such, are intended to serye limitedgeographic areas. Collector - Class I streets connectneighborhoods within and between subregions and provide mobility between residential ne i ghborhood s and other I and uses. ( 6/e0) date, implementation efforts have been hampered by disagreements between various communities along the corridor. In Chanhassen, the pl an calls for turn I anes and mi nor local street cl osures. r.H. ?t2 T.H. 5 Arboretum Boul evard Highway 5 is the most important existing roadway in Chanhassen. It-series as the maj or link to the metropo l i tan are and because of its I ocat i on adjacent to the population center , it provides access to a large number of people commuting to employment in other cities. Because of this, Highbray 5 carries large volumes of traff ic and at peak hours, is frequently congested and i neffect i ve. !lithin Chanhassen, the flow of traffic along Highway 5 is relatively undisturbed. The roadway which consists of two lanes wi th the except i on of the four Iane port i on at the intersection with Highway 41 is interrupted by traffic signals at 41, CSAH l7' 101 and Dakota Avenue. There are no significant commercial or residential uses accessing directly onto Highway 5. Eastbound traffic on T.H.5 tJpically connects with either 494 or TH 169/Hennepin County 62. From the Chanhassen border to 494' Highway 5 contains a number of signalized intersections. This situation, combined with higher traffic volumes in Eden prairie, causes s ignificant traffi c delays during peak hours. In 1987, l'lnoOT began a ser.ies of improvements which willsignificantly enhance the function of Highway 5. The first stage improvements resulted in the construction of four lanes from l{allace Road to Prairie Center Dri ve in Eden Prairie. The second phase calls for construction of a four 'lane dividecl roadwaJ from west of CSAH 4 to Hallace Road . Currently, the fi nal phase of theproject nhich should be completed bJ 1993 calls for constructionof a four lane roadway from |rest of CSAH 17 in Chanhassen to westof CSAH 4 in Eden Prairie. Chanhassen strongly adYocates the continued extension of the TH 5 improyements to the western borderof the community. I.H.2L? is a planned principal arterial which is proposed to run diagonal ly through the southern port i on of Chanhassen. The route which runi from Norwood to T.H.494 will be a four lane divided facility with controlled access. Plans call for two interchanges in Chanhassen, one at T.H. 101 and the other at CSAH 17. At the present time, official mapping has been completed and the EIS has been finalized. Partial funding is currently avai I able for construction. I'linor Arterial - Class I 22 ( 6/90 ) Highway 4l Hazeltine Bou I ev ard The western portion of Chanhassen is bisected by Highway 41. Thisroute is an important link between Highway 212 along the l,linnesotaRiver and Highway 7 to the north. Highway 41 passes through the unsewered portion of the city yhere I ittle development preiently ex ists and no significant further development is anticipated untilthe mid 1990's. There are no significant safety or congestionproblems along the existing roadr,ay. l.linor Arterial - Class II TH lOI Great Plains Boul eYard Based upon the Eas recommended that TII. The pri nc i pa1 l. The projected or exceed thea col I ector. year 2010 dai ly vo I umes recommended guidel ines at the upper 'l imit vol umes carr i ed by tern Carver Cou nty Transportation Study,.H. 101 be designated as l,linor Arterial - reasons for this recommendation are: it is Class are for 2. The roadway performs an importantsub-regions in the area. 3. T.H. 101 is recommended to hayearterial. reg i onal function connect i ng access to T. H. 212, a major 4. The City has historical and will cont i nue to doT.H. 101 intersect ionstraff i c signals or s top ly lim'ited d i rect access to T. H. 101so. Through the City of Chanhassen,are generally controlled by eithersigns on the cross streets. For discussion purposes, Highway 169 and 212 have been groupedtogether since they form one continuous roadway. T.H. 169 IZLZ isa two lane undivided highway with no access control on the segmentwithin Chanhassen. This road carries substantial ,'f arm to maiket,,truck traffic originating in trestern l,linnesota and bound fordestinations throughout the metropol itan area. Highway 169 l212 - Flying Cloud Drive Col I ector - Cl ass I Collector - Class I streets serye as connections betxeen neighborhoods and provide access to minor arterials, other col lectors, and local streets. l{ithin Chanhassen, the followingare classified as Co l l ector - Class I routes: I'l i nnewas h ta ParkwaY Galpin Bou 1ev ard ( CSAH Powers Bou l evard ( CSAH 117) L7) 23 (6/e0) Col I ector Cl ass I Continued dt oad Incl uding Extens i on oute, North of TH 5 oute, South of TH 5 ( csAH 18 ) csAH 18) ve Lake Riley Boulevardilorth TH 5 Frontage Road Each. of these roadlraJs contains or wilI contain traveled lanes. Existing routes may have some direct These routes, as wel I as additional ones des ignated in are I i kely to carry h i gher traff i c vol umes as urban continues. Kerber 0rive Mar ket Bou I evaIest 78th Stre Lake Drive P I easant view Lake Lucy R oad NeH East/Iest l{ew East/Uest Audubon Road Lyman Bou I ev ar Pi oneer TraiI Bl uff Creek 0r r e R R R d ( i two to f our I and access. the f uture, development Jurisdictional Cl ass i fication In genera l , the current jurisdictional responsibi l ities county and local) are generally consistent Hith the above and with the recommended roadway system. Airports There are no existing or planned airports within the City of Chanhassen. Commercial air seryice is available at Twin Cities I nternat i ona I Ai rport and general aviation is avai lable at F1ying Cloud Airport in Eden Prairie. Flying Cloud is approximately 4miles from Chanhassen. Despite the lack of airports in Chanhassen, the City has twoprimary aviation concerns: first, that phJsical obstructions are control led and second I y, seap I ane operations. At the present time,the tallest man made structures within Chanhassen are the City'srater tolrers which average 135 feet. Structures under 200 feet are not considered obstructions under State rules. Radio towers are ( state,criteria Consideration of funct i onal classification is significant in the ana lys i s of jurisdictional classification. In general, principal arterials are under the jurisdiction of the State; mi nor arterials- class I are State roadways; mi nor arterial s - cl ass II are ei ther State or County roadways and collector - class I roadways are under the jurisdiction of the City of Chanhassen. 0ther criteria which affect jur i sdiction inc l ude hi stori cal j urisdiction, provi sions .for local access, continuity and funding for capital and operating expenses. 24 ( 6/e0 ) the only potential structures that may exceed the 200 footthreshold. If proposals for towers occur, the city rill reguirethat they comp'ly nith all State, Federal and local requirements. Lakes l,linnewashta and Riley are used by seaplanes at the presenttime. To date, there have been fer conflicts between boat traffic and seaplane usage. Continued usage in these areas is not viewedas a major issue due to the small number of aircraft and off peak hour operation by their olrners. If in the future, if the numberof aircraft increases or the potent i a I for ser i ous usage confl ictsoccurs, the City may work with State and reg ional authorities to I imit or ban seaplane usage. Transit The prec ed i ng sect i ons of this plan have cons idered transportationprimarily in the context of the private automobile. Althoughprivate cars comprise the most commonlJ used mode of transportationfor Chanhassen residents, forms of mas s trans i t are al so important. Two forms of mass trans i t, busses and Iight rail, are specific components of th i s pl an. Busses - In I ate 1986, Chanhassen joined the cities of Eden Prairie an-?I-Th-a s k a in the creation of the Southwest Area Transit Commissionto provide transit service known as the Southwest lletro. At thepresent time, the system offers basic levels of services. Serviceincludes fixed schedule routes, a dial-a-r'ide program and express serv ice to downtown Minneapolis. Chanhassen's fixed scheduleroute, labeled Sl{53J, fol lows T. H. 41 from Chaska to T. H. 5 andfollows T.H. 5 east into Eden Prairie with a pass through the downtown Chanhassen area. Chanhassen's contract with Chaska and Eden Prairie is a joint powers agreement renewable on an annual basis. The City wil I cont i nu e to monitor the effectiveness of the South|rest tletroprogram in proyiding cost effective transit service to the City of Chanhassen. !!Snt Rail Transit (LRT) - Light rail transit is a mode oftransp-itEtlon that ls current 1y being considered for constructionin the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area. In 1987, Hennepin Countyreceived authorization from the State Legislature to prepare a Comprehensive LRT System Plan for Hennepin County. The Hennepin County Board intends to implement light rail transit in the countyby 1990. Toward that end, the County established the Hennepin County Regional Rai lroad Authority to administer, at least, theinitial stage of the system. Hennepin County oHns railroad right-of-way from downtown l,linneapol is to Victoria. 0ther countiesin the metropolitan area have followed Hennepin County's lead ancl have al so establ i shed ra i I road authorit ies.Early system pianning has identified two routes, one or both of which may ultimately be extended into Chanhassen. 0f the two, the 25 ll t!I , I I LRT Gorridors lllf North Boute aOO South Route EL+#it t .-., r trtrIet \& F It ( -€ 5 I I t I E 4 - l - - rr il lllt a^! L rtE r,.,ro CIftG GTU$}UISSE { o Y'E- ll (6/e0) northern alignment has rece'ived the highest priority. Although both a I i gnments prov i de potenti al benefi ts to Chanhassen res idents,neither significantly impacts the city in terms of land use anddirect accessibilitJ. There are no proposed station sites within Chanhassen's borders. The northern al ignment which has an identif ied stat i on in Excel s i orprovides the most benefit to Chanhassen since the City's population resides primarily in the northern half of the community. Thesouthern alignment travels along the bluff area in southern Chanhassen which is presently outside of the iIUSA Iine area and notlikely to see urban development yithin the time frame of this p1an. As a result, it is viewed as somewhat of a commuting route from Chaska to downtolrn l.linneapolis and various stations along theroute. If the northern route is eventually implemented, Chanhassenresidents wishing to use the system will have to rely on bustransit connec t i ons to Excelsior (if available) or wili requirepark and ride sites in the vicinity of the station. The City will cont i n ue to mon i tor the impl ementat ion of I ight rai I and stationplans to assess their adequacy and their impact on existing privatepatterns and bus trans i t systems. Irp I ementat i on Chanhassen's transportation system has been the subject of variousstudies since 1968. Since that time, the syitem has seensignificant improvements such as the construction of CSAH 17,improvement of Lake Lucy Road , constru ct i on of Kerber Bou I ev ard ,reconstruction of downtown streets and the current improvements t6T.H. 5. 0ver the past f er+ Jears, however, implementing planned transportation projects has become an increasingly diff icu'lt task.This has occurred pri mar i Iy-due- to red uct i on s in federa I spend i ngwhich means that state and local governments have fewer avai lableresources. This pattern has p l aced added pressure on the budgetsof the trlinnesota 0epartment of Transportation and the City of Chanhassen. The planned improvements to T.H. 5 and I.H.2l2 are eyidence ofthis trend. Chanhassen along with adjacent municipalities andapplicable count i es funded a port i on of the cost of the preparat i onof the environmental impact statement (EIS) for T.H. 2l?.Additionally, the City allocated $50,000 over a tr,o year period toexpedite the clesign and eyentual construction of the T. H. 5improvements. Chanhassen a lso contributed to the preparation ofthe T.H.7 Corridor Study that was completed in 1986. 27 The City of Chanhassen recognizes that transportat ion projects oyer the next 10 to 20 years will cont i nue to requ i re loca'l resources. This raises two immediate concerns: 1) that local money be used to fund projects that principally serve local residents and 2) what sources of additional funds will be avai I abl e? ( 6/90 ) Implementation of the Recommended Sy Interagency Cooperat i on XTnnEsotElepartmen t of Carver County and adiace nitF uTfanleyeTopmenthat is operati ng f ar The overal t general recommendation of this Recommended System. The fol lowing general order to accomplish this task. plan is to implement the steps brill be taken in Chanhassen's roadway system can be classified into routes that serve primarily local residents such as Kerber Boulevard and routes that serve reg-ional and statewide travelers in addition to local residents. T.H.5 and T.H. 101 are examples of routes in the second category. Routes that serYe large volumes of regional and statewide tiaffic are the principal responsibility of the I'linnesota 0epartment of Transportation and in some cases, Carver County. Thbrefore, City participation in funding improvements to such routes will be limited. transit improvements including a I ight rai I system. Funding Sources - Chanhassen will continue to investigate all sources oT fe(fera I, state, regional, locaI and private sources of transportation funding where possible for local lobbying groups seek i ng transportat ion improvements providing such improvements areidentified in this plan and are consistent with City priorities. System tlonitoring - Transportation improvements need to keep pace - Chanhassen will cont i nu e to work with the Transportation, the l,letropol itan Counc i l ,nt municipalities to implement roadway and t. T.H. 5 is a current example of a route beyond reasonable capacity. This impacts theresidential, commerc ial and industrial segments of the community. In an attempt to avoid aggravating existing problems and creating future deficiencies, the city will closely monitor all development proposal s. Detai I ed circulation and access plans rill be required to assess the impact of propos ed maj or nevJ devel opments on both the existing and future transportation systems. 28 Limited participation in reg iona l routes and total participation in local routes will continue to require additional funding by the C ity of Chanhassen. Sources of such funds may inc l ude Chapter 429 assissments, the general fund, tax increment financing and impact fees . Impact fees which require major new developers. to. fund portions oi directly related transportation projects are beginning to be used by Twin City area municipalities..- This concept will be closely revi-ewed to determine its dpplicability to Chanhassen. stem eASE t: 89-1 t{AP Jo:v STAFF REPORT Fz o =(L (L B lrJF U' Ltland lltoratioa p.I:lr.t for . pathr/Ialtray tbrough . clrls I f.tlaDd oa lptua LLe Outlot l, coloBLal Crova rt tJotu3 Lalo PBOPOSAIJ! IOCATTON: APPIJICAIIT:Cbris EDgeI 7015 a8!6y tool RoadCbalhassoD, l{lt s531? PRESEII! ZOTTXG: II}'ECENT 'OIIIIIG IIID IJIIID I'88! TTTER IIID SETBRs PEYAIC]IL CEINACIIERISIICA : 2OOO LIIID I'AE PI,TN: ( I I CITY OF EHINH[SSEN PC DATE: 6-20-90- - . CC DATE: 7-9-90 Rgl, 8Ltgl. tr.-i,ly . I - Lotua Lale8 - R8F7 8lDglo FlrityB - RsF, tllgle rlDilyf - B8?, alaglo prlily lvailaDle to tbo proporty Ihe sl.te la aa outlot rised ae arecreatioaal beachlot for the leighbothood. cura€ltly the!€Is fllt u!, to th. opea uater off6tua Lale coDtalDirg rocX. Begl.llcatial Lov DoDsl.ty chris Engel wetland Alteration Pemit June 20, 1990 Page 2 BACKGROI'ND A wetland area adjacent to Iotus Iake vas filled in the early sunmer of 1988. along three properties (Frost, Pfankuch and recreational beachlot). I{hile the property uas being filled, staff was contacted by a resident questioning whether this was approved.staff fron the Planning and Engineering Departnents went out to thesite to deterrnine exactly uhat uas taking place. The staff thatvisited the site stated to the applicant that uhat they vere doing required a grading pernit and that any further activity on the site uas not pernitted until a grading pennit uas obtained. The contractor fitling the site came to city HaU and filled out anapplication for a grading pernit. fhe Planning Department againvisited the site to deterroine if a wetland existed. staff saw that netland vegetation had existed and that a wetland alteration pernit was required. Staff contacted the applicants and stated that what was occurring was not pernitted nithout a wetland alterationpernit. Staff visited the site vith PauI Burke of the Fish and wiLdlife Service who provided a report on the site dated June 30, 1988.After several contacts nith the applicants, an application wasfiled for a retland alteration perni.t by Ur. Frost and DIr. Pfankuch on January 12, 1989. The application for the Pfankuch and Frostsetland alteration pernit was brought before the Planning Connission on February 15, 1989. The PLanning Conmission tabledaction until it could be clarified what actually occurred betrreenthe applicants and staff and to allow tiroe for the Lotus Lake BetterDent Association (recreational beachlot) to be included in the wetland alteration pernit application since it became apparentthat the wetland on their property was also filled. Staff was in contact rrith the Fish and wildlife, Corps of Engineers and the Department of Natural Resources at the beginning of thisprocess. The DNR responded that the fill was in viol"ation of Minnesota Rules 6115.0190 and that any pernit to fill below theordinary high water mark uould be denied. Pat Lynch of the DNRstated that any fill below the ordinary h19h uater mark would be required to be renoved and the area restored. Since the DNR rrasinvolved, staff felt that we shou1d nork with the DNR and the Fish and Wildlife Service to provide a plan agreeable to all regulatoryparties as to the amount of fiD area that needed to be removed and how nuch of the wetland should be restored. The City and the DNRare the two agencies vhLch have jurisdiction over the rretLand. The DNRrs jurisdiction ends at the OHWU rrhile the the Cityrs control extends over the entire rretland. The Fish and Wildlife Service was used as a resource. The DNR has required the property owners to reDove the fill up to the ordinary high water nark by Uay 1, 1990. The DNR has staked out the OHI{U irhere the applicants have to reDovethe fill. chris Engel Wetland ALteration Pernit June 20, 1990 Page 3 3 O! lsbnrlrT 2L, 1990, tbo pl.nntDg Coniraloa rovr,ared tha rotlaDalaltcratLoa pcrult for flll rl.tbla . rctlalal ratjrooDt to tptus t.},6ol th. ruDJcct rlto. lh. plrnpiDg coEllrlo! ioconenalrit .pDroyalof tb. p.lrl,t rl.th 3trff.r ooDdltlolr, rdaH,trg to oolratltl.oi-tlo. ftbat tbs flll r11l tr.od to D. r.loyoA Dy Juar 15, t990. fh€Plranlng Gou:lsgl,oa also addad coDdltloD -Io. S that .tatoa th€appltcaDt ul,ll havc to rribul.t tad roceivc approyrl tor a gradlagaall oroal.oa oontrol plaa prlor to rDy rorl bcing do!6 oD tli alte] OD Xarch 12, 1990, tLo City Courail alro aplrrovoal tho retlaratrlt.ratl,oD per:ur.t rlth the coadl.tl.oaa trot tbJ ilrrrrrlag Conlsat oD(rttactroDt lt). rbs aoldltloDa ot rpprovrl r.r. aB iollors: 1. !!hs lppllcaDt aball reuovc 25r r tst r 3Or of fil! reasuringtroE th. propcrty llne adJ aceDt to lotus tal. aB ahot! on tbetlaal plat. Ab6 flu yttf Ue 8€[ovoA by .ruDo tS, lleO, usiagthe typlcal oroga erotl,oa provlaed ly tle DIR. 2. ths- rppll.caDt sba1l b€ pcnl.ttod oD. boardralt througb thetestorad r€tlaral to provldc acoas3 to th€ doc}. rostoro to a I llhe ar6a of reEoveA fill ghall be allored toDatural atate. 5. lDy Iruqrlo loosestrl,fe that r.turDc shall be luedlatelyr.Dovcd as r.coDtrcttaleal b!, th. llsh rail ttlalltfe gerricSXalual, .rgpaaaat, I[pact ]ral CoDtrol of HEIrosa Loo3estrito LDforth Merior fethDdslr. Prl.or to_ aDy -uoal bclag doae o! tLo ette, the .ppllaaDt lbaUrubnlt for clty staff lpproyat a gra6i.ai aaa eiistou coatroi PlaD. ANALYSIS condition No. 2 of the wetland arteration permit approval statedthat the applicant shall be permitted one -boardwati ttrrough therestored wetland to provlde access to the dock. The applicint isrequesting to naintain a 4 t rride by 42r long rock -rialkway tonaintain access to the dock rather than reuoviig aU of the rockand Lnstalllng a boardwalk through the restorect -vetland. The applicant has been vorking cloeely with the DNR in removingfill beLow the ordinary high vater nirk. In rpeaking vith pat Lynch fron the D!IR, the applicant yas told that the DNR- sould notbe opposed -to the proposal to leave in place a gravel access strip5t wide and extending no further ratersard than the existing filiarea in order to a1lon access area to the association dock.- pat Lynch further Etated that in order to retain the access strip tothe dock, the app).icant nust also secure approval from the City of Chris Engel wetland Alteration Pernit June 20, 1990 Page 4 chanhassen Riley-Purgatory-BIuf f (Attachnent #2). Creek l{atershed District In the past, the city has consistently recoEEended that access to a dock or open vater through a netland be achieved by a boardsalk versus clearlng wetLand vegetation and filling a path area. rhecityts position on requiring boardualks nas the result of uorkingwith the Flsh and wildlife Serrrice, corps of Engineers and DNR in determining the best rray to provide access through wetlands whichrould have the leaat anount of alteration, short and long tern, tothe wetland. Therefore, staff uas aonerhat surprised uhen the DIIR stated that they vould have no objectlon to a rock pathuay through an area that will be a restored wetland. In speaking with Ceil Strauss fron the DNR, it uas stated that the DNR prefers boardvalks as Deans of access to open water through a retland versus fiUing. I{hat is different uith this case is that the filling has already occurred within the wetland. The applicant is proposing to not reDove a 4 i uide by 42t long strip of rock and allou it to be rnaintained to ser.ve as access to the dock and uater. Staff understands that this is an existing situation and that it willresult in additional cost for the applicant to have to remove the 4 i rride by 421 long strip of rock in addition to the other areathat has to be renoved and then to have to instalL a boardrralk.Staff stil1 strongly feels that ue need to support the installationof a boardwalk to be consistent with past practices and in terns of wetland preservation, the boardualk is the best means of accessuith the least inpact to the setland. Therefore, staff nust reconmend that all the illegal fiII be reDoved and that if the applicant ulshes to naintain access to the dock and open water thata boardwalk be installed. Should the Planning Cornrnission /city council wish to a1low the 4 r wide by 42' Long rock ualkway to renain, staff is reconmending that it be conditioned upon approvalof those exact dinensions and that the path cannot be widened or Iengthened without an additional netland alteration pernit. RECOUUENDATION Staff reconmends that the Planning Conuission adopt the folloringnotion: ItThe Planning ConnJ.ssion recoDnends denial of the retlandalteratLon pernit reguest to allou a 4. uide by 42 t longcrushed rock path through the Class A vetland adjacent toIotus Inke. rr Chris Engel l{etland Alteratlon Pemit June 20, 1990 Page 5 ATTACHUENTS 1. Ctty Council ninutes dated tlarch 12, 1990 and letter toapplicant.2. Ltter froD D}IR dated tlay 21, 1990.3. DNR regiulations.1. Appllcatlon.5. Slte plan. I..&.rc-lt llr l'tctd ",$-V (bu-rroi | 1sua*n-a ; Qrcilrsr blt trovd, t€1or Ctrr,lel ecrnleal to table * ,..'l.t *O plat bl&rHivi(b 29.9 acres for ltst€r ard lEartra Erardt for firrtlEr atuay d the accesssituation. All voted in f,avor elcept orrrilltan &trn8dr *o qoieO Jd thertotlsr carrled slth a vote of I to 1. lblor Ctrdel: e4r, yitlr tjre dlsc[sslons l*Et Erve had, can ]Du see lf pu orprlI screttlrg togetler Eo E can bave aotethlrg? D llot have a tjrrefrai thatyur'te gofug to rEed? Ory lErren: Iitsrll be turd pessed to get tt bact at the rErt OrEtl. I rculds.:, the... l€1or Gr..lel: -,| Gi+, Err€n: tla:,or Ctftlel: cqrluslor. si I{EITAID ALTRATION PERUTI @UEST. 7gg7 CIIRIEII}IE IRAIL, CTBRLES HIRI, LOrUS TJIKE BEEI'ER{EIII ISSGIATIoiI. Jo ltn Ol.sen: Ihe FoIErt:, is leatcd ar totus [.ke. Ihe Eroperq, la I of 3that fllleil a portion of the retlard last...rlttput first reaeivlrg r Etlrrttalteratlon prrr,it. Iih rEnt tluough the process with tlE 64rs of argfucers 'ldtIE IXIR to verify er.actl!' Lttat ttE DtlR wanted b bave rEr,ovedt alrEe it nas lnvlolatlqr of tlE DNR regulations also. tre DltR has qreed wltlr tXe q)licant b r€'.o\re a certain area of fill thatrs Ettorn tn the tEavler dark area. ftat tfcCity sttff -did ms go back tluorrgh the hlstor], to try to dleterrrdne exrtly r*eretlE edge of the rntlard E8 to begln vlth ard to require the agplicant to rsrove ?U qF +U tjrat Es pl.ac€d i11e9a11y on tlr retland. So E are recurrterdirg b€tro8d rtrat the DUR proposed for tlgr. to fiU lrd Insted of a 25 r 35 r 3g foot area, E are recorertling tlEt lt b a 25 r,l5 fot ln abp,th area to be rsrord. fhe elaryriq C*rrdssisr recorrenied aproral of the staff recotnerdatlor aletrgtlat lt had to be rato\red by Jin€ 15, 1990 ard that ttE 4pLlcant, datlngcordltlon 5 that tlE aI[flicant has to anbrdt the plans for cle rtaff aproralprlor to agr grailing of thls site. OrEilr.n B[t: Ird ro\re agxoral. &rrllran Isrlsran: Secglat. Grrllrran Johnsdr: tttat lbout the otts trc lots? Jo lrrt OIsr: ltnyr re oardrg throqh. ![n12. re gotrq b be eeen try t e plarurtrq &utdssim ttE rE t reetlrg. lhe appllcatlcE care ln seprately. Staff stllb ratirg tle sare recorerdatlon for tlat. ilalror Ctrhlel i 0k y. Is ttrere arqruc cle ntshtrlt to addresg urls lsap? &orllrtan Bqt roved 1 o.r,Ellrr.ln llrrtqr.ri secdrded to rtpro\re litsttard l1t€rau61Edt 189-1 with tlE follonirg contitlors: 3{ Itrp firet GtlrEtf edrg tn lprtl ts rtrat lurr re sa1dqg? Ye.h. fprtl 9tlr. 0kay, erll hirlg this bck an t1ril gttr rit} tropeirlly ccre Itur& gon for ccr.lrg. AEp'ret te tt. 1. llE 4pl ieant Ctall re$o\re 25! r l5r t 1g' of flII reasurlrg frcr, tlreprq,ertl' ltre adjaoent to Iotlls take as abo$n ol the flnal plat. Itte flllyt1l b r€tro\rd bg JtrE 15, 1999, uslrg ttre [pical (ross sectlon pwtdted ry tlE D[R. 2. UE 4Pllcant ihall be IE rdtted! se boardhalk tfuorgh t'le reGtorcd Etlud to prorlde acss to the docl(. 3. l[= area of rgtoneil ftll sttall be alloed to le3tore to a n trral ltate. 4 ftry Frrpla loosestrlfe th.t returns $a11 be twdtatel.y r*oved ae recqrrerdedl by tlte Pistr rd l{ililllfe Eervic.e narrral, tqrred, lrFct ddUrtrol of Brrple tooeestllfe ln tbrth kcrlca t|btlard8i. 5. kior to any mrk beirg dce dr trlE Bite, tlc 4pllcant sbaU antrdt for CiQt staff alfrro\Ef a grrdlrg ard eroeian csrtrol pLan. AlI Iot€at in tavor ud the rtotlm carried. APPROT'E EANS AID SPEIFICAIIO|S F(R PROi}TIER lnAIL I'EEIAE II{PROI'E{EIIT PRCIi'ET 89-lS, AIITHORIZE eD,VEnlIISIlrc Bm BIDS. Ga4, Iihren: fftrt Erld llollr pleaBre b lt. leFr? tlalor Chtdel: rcqr figlttly. ltsrre gue orr thls erorryfir ttre. Ga4r lrbrr€n: PIan6 ard 4=clflcatlms have been pregrrd a5 dlrect€d. ArEigtrbrhod r€eting Es lEId Febru:y 6th rtrlch E Ere &Ie to dtlscu$ ddranis tle plans ln ttn &afE fon rltlr ttc lnteresteit ,ElgtDors rrtD Ee ableto ltterd the neetilrg. tE cattrorersial ltgtr that 4fEar. ln tln plans la aaidmlk alorg tla .ltgrrr€nt rtrlctr as directed Lry Or,EtL e loo*eit at ln (btaiI ln }eatlng tt with the uderatarrillng ttrat tt E; to be hought baek forcosideratior as ! IErt of tlE plan Jd 4,ec pacloge. Orrrent eqglru. eestrr.t€ for the Foject 16 .bout TtL6rWg.N. ttrratts yltholrt ttE Elk. ftEmllrey ls eBtlFated to be approrfu.taly 952rggg.0g oo8t. ,lltratig rltfi anr overhead rylted to lt. tEr \re been able, Etne taken t:tre lnFrt frm the residearts ard corretnE abort ttE ragnttde of tlr gtont rercr Jrtgorarenta ttratE Ere looktrg at ln the fe.8tb111qt Etu4, d E have been ablc to EdlE€ t rst co8t bry about 9{0r009.9t bg Cra afetatl 1@lr at ttc topograSt4r rrd urd.Stdlarly, throryh relubllitatlon sEatagy etve Glll*d h8 al& rdred qr emr reh& eatlr.te [l about O63rgSg.W. Cr tJE ottu aldb of ttn ldger, tte rolal Etidrs qrt ttEre rd the oll brlnga ail edt tbat E dbalt rlttr havetrdtcatd a need fc a llttle blt rrore ttgntftcant rod sectlor lrtt the @rtsfor tlr road sectlol have lrrreaeed. lEt botton ltrE tB tlrat E rre cloe Itttlr* to tlE feaslblUtf sttrry estlEte. I llttle blt .boue lt. ItE cta€ntsof the poJect that Ere propoad fc asceaslrq tugrcr ue Fett!, cloE b or! orlginel esttr.tes. ItE ttari la befce tlE Grrrtl for cqulderatlgr ard aSpranal for authorlzirg dverttaing 60r btd8. olrrllntan Dfiilers lt. t{alDr, lf f r.l, start an thrt qE. I l,h1or Grdel: Yes. 6 lfEaal tEcula. 35 t ) CITY O {r?/ TH[NH[EEEN -t ;{ FW llarcb 28, 1990 Dr. charles Hirt Lotus Lake BetterEent Assoc. 7oo7 cheyenne Trail chanhassen, UN 553L7 g1 l/r 690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 Dear Dr. Hirt: this is to confirrn that on uarch 12, 1990, the city council approved the wetland alteration pernit - request - for the Lotus Lake gLlterrnent Association with the following conditions 1. The applicant shall reDove 25r x 45t x 30r of fill ueasuring frorn Etre property line adj acent to I"otus Lake as shown on the final pIat. -The-fill will be r€moved by June 15, 1990, using the typical cross section grovided by the DNR. 2. The applicant shall be perBitted one boardwalk through the restored wetland to provide access to the dock. 3 S incerely, Jo Ann Olsen senior Planner ceaL Strauss Engineering Dept. Building Dept. 4. Any purple loosestrife that returns shaI1 be imnediately rernoved as reconmended by the Fish and wildlife Service Ilanual, rrspread, Inpact and Control of Purple Loosestrife in North Anerica l{etlandsrr . 5. Prior to any vork being done .on the site, the applicant shaI1 subnit for City staff approval a grading and erosLon control PIan. Should you have any questions, Please feel free to contact me. cc: The area of removed fill shall be allowed to restore to a natural state. Ldtvb LhAP F|LE 0. ATATE OFh0hgtrs@TA DEFARTMENT OF NATLTli.,..t RESE.Ui,":3ES: }IETRO REGION TATERS - 1230 I{ARNER ROAD, ST. Pf,*, I'IIi 55106 firoflE ric. 296_7523 l4ay 21, 1990 -ivBrYELl rlAY 2 3199c CIIV OT C}IAN}IASSEII Dr. Char'les Hirt 7007 Cheyenne Trail Chanhassen, llN 55317 erel v, Dear Dr. Hirt: PI: UNAUTHoRIZED FILL, V89-6c55, L0TUS,LAIE (I0-6P), CARVER C0UNTY Thank you for your recent telephone ca'lj regading the fill be'low the ordinary high water elevation (0Hl{) of Lotus Lake. As we discussed, I am not opposed to your proposal to leave in place a gravel access strip S-feet wide, extendin-g- no further uaterflard thin the existing fiil area, in order to al'lov{ for access to the association dock.- The renainder of the oateria] be'lor the 0Hll nust be removed in accordance with the l etter I sent you' dated December 6, 1989. 'iou a'lso requested an extension of time to cmp1ete the restorati on efforts. By virtue of this notice, I am extending the date oy *t!9! restoration is to be comp'leted to July 15, 1990. I trust this wi'l'l al1ow ample time to compl ete the project. As you are aware, in or{er to retain the access s-trip to your dock, you must also secure approva'l from the City of Chanhassen and the Riley-PurgatorJ-B'luff Creek tlatershed District. Please ca'll if you have further guestions. I'd appreciate being contacted at least three days prlor to comencing restoration. Pat Lynch Area Hydrol ogi t Pl166: kap cc: JoAnn 01sen, C'ltY of Chanhassen Bob ObermeYer, Barr Engineeri ng Ken Harrel'l , USC0E AN EOUAL OPPORTUNTY ETiPLOYER t I- L : : to 6115.0202 PUBLIC WATER RESOURCES LLV-I 5378 lcEs 6115.0202 :ioo distrid and ns, aDd requiE- . oficially desig- ith a total drain- p€rmitted where ;ion, or sedimen- ursc vith a roral rpplicant may be include: )gy as follows: oni mlrcam; egistercd profes- parts 6l15.0270 to 6115.O272; and dterations of protecrcd vatcrs fq1 rnining pan 6t 15.0280. StrEtory Authority. MS s 105.415 History: 6 ,SX 5J3 6TT5.02T0 STR,UCTURES IN PROTECTED WATERS. Subpart I . Gods. It is the goal of the dcpartment to linit the ocarpation of protcctea waters by offshorc ravigational facilities, retaining wdls, aad orher slructurcs in order to: A prcs€rve the natural character of protcocd watcB a[d thcir shore- laads; B. provide a balancc bctweca the protedion .trd utilizatioo ofprotcctcd waters; and C. encourage the removal of existing srructures which do not scrre the public interesr fromlhc bcds of protected waiers at the carliest practicablc &re- Subp. 2. Scope. This pan applies to rhe placcment, constnrction' rcconstruc' tion, repiir, relocation, abandonncnt, or removal of any structure placcd on or in protected waters. Subp. 3. Pleccment of stuctues not Demitted. Placcmqnt of sEucturcs shdl not be permirted wher€ thc strudure: A. Will obstrucr navigation or crcatc a watcr safcty bazard B. Will be dcrimentd to significant 6sh and wildlife habital' or prc' tccted vegctarion. Construction is prohibired in postcd fish spawning areas. C. Is designed or itrtended to be us€d for human habitation or as a boathouse. D. Is designed or inlended to include walls, a roof' or scwagc facilities. Subp. 4. No Frnit rcquired- No pcrmir shal be Gquircd for thc following acdvities, unless prohibired undcr subpan 3: A. To construct, neconsfucL or install a scasonal dock or floating strudure provided ( I ) lhe structure will not constitute a hazard to navi8ation or public heahh, safcty, ind wclfare, as dercrmined by thc commissioncri (2) the structurc u,ill nor includc fuel-handling facilitics; (3) the structure witl altow the frce flow of water bctreath ili aDd (4) the structurc is not used or intcndcd to bc uscd as a marina. B. To constnrct or rcconstruct a permancot dock on wood pilinSs Or rOCk frlled cribs on lal(es provided: (l) thc dock is a siagle lineal stnrourt wilh no appuncaenccs; (2) only one dock is installed pcr riparian lot; (3) rhe structurc shall not excecd six feet in width nor exccrd 50 fect in length, or ixicnd ro a deplh 8rcalcr thatr four fec! whichevcr is lcss; (4) thc structutl shalt comply wilh thc ltqui'lEenrs of ilcm A subitems (2), (3), and (4); (5) for a permancnt dock on wood pilinS, thc curfacc.rra of lhc lakc is equd to or gt€atcr thaa 500 acrcs; (6) for a pcrmaacnt dock on rock frllcd cribs, the surfacc area of the lakc is equd to or grcarcr lhan 2,500 acres; and (7) struclures using rock 6lled cribs shall only bc placed whcrc rhc lakebcd is pred6minantly bcdroik which is incapable of supponing wood pilings and shall uiilizc intcrmiitcntly spaccd 6ibs which allow unrcsrictcd cfuculation of water bcneath thc dock. c. To conslruct or rc,construct a boat launching ramp providcd: L I F t ,rcaligning chan- ''plicanr provides I will adequately f encroachment, ogical system of lercourses shall i and rhe specific e submission of )f this pan. rprovc fish and ree of habitat to 1ol olate other ntional obstruc- I excavarion will :ueourtion itr the 1tive other than i I I ! i I TFOROTHER JT,ORCROSS and 5l15.0201 ity or activities I 92; strudures, 0 ro 6l I 5.0222; rotcded watcrs, jir.' 5379 PI,BLIC WATEN RESOURCES 6115.02II (r) privatcrv owncd ramps shalr nor cxcced 12 fcet in width. and.rtnd morc rhan 61 f6i1 t yona.d-irai*ri-niiiGi.i'*k o, inro watermore than four fecr io deor', whichev", i, f""r]gr&"ioir.nr. cubic yards orless" and placemcnr of uoio 6vc cubic yards oi'.""hJ;*. g"vcl. clcatr sand,or snrall slone.h,[ be ailowed in oraer ro proridJi siuii*uase or -r;"rarn us.Ol the ramp. (2) Publiclv owned ramps fhal as1 cxcecd 24 fect in width andcxrcnd more.than 20 fecinarerward_oiiha rhor];;;;ii"'ircr morr tban fourtcer rn depth, whichevcr i. las. excarat-io-ni "i rii '"iriil l"ras or less, andplacemcnr of up ro 30 cubic v"ra. oi ".i'nlii-rJ"r,"i"Tii'ctcan sena, o, smalstoDe shall bc arowcd in ordbr to pro"iae a -suuri fii oi -ro"-t.i" usc of thenalDp. (3) The ramo shall be-coDstrudcd ofgravcl, narural roch concrcrc.:ifiml,"* or orber durable inorganic mar".i.I nor "rce&iog six inchcs in D. Rcmove sruaures or olher waterway obstitaions providcd:(l) te- original cross-sccrion ana bea condiriois shall be rcsrorcdmsotar as practicable; (2) the srrudure slSJ be complerely rcmoved including any footingsor pilings which obsrrucr navigarron; (3) the srrucrure is not locared on an ofrcally dGignated routstEam; (4) the srrucrure docs not function as a water levcl ootrol devicc. ., - _ Subp. 5. Permits rcquirct criterir. permirs sf,JrL *crir"d f.r lhe @)nsrruc_tron, reconsrrucrion, repair, or rctocation oi;il;il;';; or in prorected ;."r':*i *f.'"t"I provided utrder subparts lan; i,;;;;tiect rhc fouowing ",*"""1J:'*tH*Ti"f, ,T[':p.tr*i1:""1?"Hm#*"sorurionro B. The proioa will i.nvolvc a minimum "i"i.#J.*r, change, oroamage to rhe environmcnl includins b"r;ildir;,";.tiio *ldtir. uuio,"navigatiou, water supply, and srorm water rctention. C. Thc proposcd srruchrc^shall be consisteni wirh applicable 0oodplain.shorcland, and wild and scenic rhe watcrs i";;i"A.*- *-v nven managemenr srandards atrd ordlaancts foi D. Adverse cffccrs "" t! qlyrlot or biological characrer of thc warersshall be subject ro fcasibte aad pnh[.r -;;;;6;;;1;tc ercas.E. The proposcd srrudure shlll be- consisren, fri *", and rrlaredsl,*ff,[T*Jffiffi'g#"t#J,*; r'EF. E ""pt for docks aDd. poat raops, rx ;;;Jures sball bavc arlde'*gisrerEd pcr.it. uolcss a public ageo"y oi r*rio"-ffiIou *ir ."""pt"responsibitty for futurc DaiDtenaDcc or rcmoval- Srrtory Authority MS s t|S.lIS Historr: ESn 53, 61 15.02r I SPECInC STANDARDS. ",1I",?T,h,'i.5*H "i}:tli#n Htr#t *.,ffi?,fiS*actrvrties d6cribcd il subpans Subp. 2. Doc}s. Exoot * "TI-9!d rg parr 6t ls.O2t0. subpan 3, ircm B, apermir shall trc rcquircd fbr thi 66astrud;oh o, ,e-*r.raion-bf _y dock andshal be gra.orcd pro.,iae( 1 i) 5u5.021r PU ASir naDce di6cult ( wwc conditio (- ofshore slope (. docking equip B. Pil is too shallow r authorized. c.Th cusidercd to i D. Th Subp. 3. V struction of all shall bc utilize wharf projectir Wharve s Aisy B.isc C. dor arca or beyooC D. siz E. is n, ly dcsigned to I Subp. 4. B sruc,tion or rtcc shall bc petmir listed spcciic c ,{. Alt,' 8. The factors includia E, subitem (2), C. The factors listed ir D. Thc bleEd iD with occupied in rele E. The to withsund th and shall be fac sizc and gradad F. Thc to thc lisred spc (l )los; provide& the ordinary hig to provide a sia; I i I i - L; JncES 6rr5.02rr feet ia width, and rark or into water ive cubic yards orpvel cl"-a sand, sc or Eainrain usc ral rock, concrcte, ling six iaches in s provided: , shall be restored rding any foorings dcsignated trout el conrol dcvice. I for the construc- n or in proteaed llect the followitrg mpact solution to s. ,mcnt, change, or d wildlife habitat, licable floodplain, nd ordinances for cter of thc waters thc cfecrs. vatcr and rclated -'rnments, provid- rd programs. :rcs shall have a :ntal unil acceps )pan 3, item B, a of any dock and 't ) 5TT5.O2TT PUBLIC WATER RESOI.JRCES 5380 A Sinril2rly situatcd docls ia the vic.inity havc not cxlrriencCd meintc- arnsc difEcdly aDd the usc ofa scasonal dock is precludcd bi:cause: (l) long fetches would subject scasonal docks to d,'6.ging storrn wave conditions; (2) bortom cooditions such as bcdrock or an cxtrmcly gaduat ofshorc slopc would preclude the usc of seasonal dock stringcrs; or (3) lhc trumbcr of public and privar uscrs is so geat th. scasonal docking equipmcot would not providc adequate stability. B. Piling dock5 <hall bc prefcrrcd in all s1s63 "nl65s the depth to bedrock is too shdlow to dlow rhc driviag ofpileq in whic.h casc rock crib docls may bc aurhorizcd C. Thc docks shall cxtcnd waterward only to a navipble deprh, generally considered to be no grearer than four feet. D. The dock shall not cxcced six feet in width. Subp. 3. \ hrnes. A permit shdt bc rcquired for the constructioa or rEcon- stnrction of all wharyes. The followiag order of prcfcrence for constuction types shdl bc utilize& bulkheaded shorcline, iaiand slip with bulkheaded sidcwalls, wharf projectiog into pmtccled watcn. Whanres shdl be pcrmitted pmvided the structure: A* is pan of a dcsignared pon faciliry; B. is consistent with local land use platrs and ordinances; C. docs not extend funhcr watcrward thao any existing wharves in the area or hyotrd any cstablished harbor line, whichever is less; D. sizc is the minimum practicable; and E. is not an obstruction to flood flows or longhore drift atrd is adcquate- ly desigoed to resist thc natural forccs of icc, wind, and wave. Subp. 4. Bnekreters ud nerius. A permit shall bc rcquired for the con- $ruction or rcconstruction ofall ofshorc brcakwarers and marinas. Thcsc structurcs shall be pcrmittcd provided the following gencral conditions and thc additional lisred spccifrc corditions are met: A. Altcrnative dock or inland facilities are infeasiblc. B. The facility shall be adequate in relarion to appropriate engineering faaors including but not limited ro thosc listed in pan 6l 15.0201, subpan 5, ircm E, subirem (2), units (0 to (n). C. Thc plan shall be adequate itr rElation to thc gcologic and hydrologic faoorc lisred in pan 6115.0201, subpafl 5, item E, subitem (2), uni6 (a) ro (e). D. Thc sizc and shape shall be dcsigned in a compact fashion so as to blend in with thc surrounding shorcline while minimizing the surfacr area occupied ia rclarion to thc number of watcrcraft to be scrved. E. Thc brcakvaters shall not cxceed thc minimum thickness necessary to withsrand thc anticipated forces consi*ent with maintcnance rcquiremcns and shall be faccd with an adequatc layer of natural rock riprap of appropriatc sizc aad gradation. F. Thc following rypcs of offshore struoures shall bc pcrmittc{ subjed to the lisred spccific conditions: (l) Priyatc offshore structurcs scnrirg several contiguous riparian los; provided: (a) Thc sitc shall mect the standards of subpan 2 for a doclc (b) Thc structurc shall minimize cncroachment watcrward of thc ordinary high water marlc (c) Thc total lengrh ofrhc structurc shall be appropriatcly sizcd to providc a singlc mooriag space for cach riparian lot scrvcd fcet in width aad ter morc lhan four 'ards or less, and :an sand, or small ainr2in usc of the ;encral standards rdl apply to the 538I PUBLIC WATER RESOIJRCES 6115.02rr - - (2) Private ofshorc structurcs for proposcd multifamily or clusteror residenrial planned unit devclopmentsi provi'aJ--- ---- , . . (a) The structure shall minimize encroachment watenrard of :T.9,rf]T? hlSh warer mark and ils rolat lenglh sha bc appropriarcty siiea ro ?Io:,9:1:rog. mooring space.f-or each npanan lor ro bc'sirvia. fti numUcior m@nng spaccs to b€ provided shar gcnera y be the emount of naturatshorcline ro be scrvcd divided uv ue toi irSnui. ihrir-."rr1i'"rrhc rocal rarduse conlrol authoriry. - (b) The devclopmenr plan shall be approved by rhc tocal landusc control authority. . (3) Private offshore strudurrs for resons, campgrounds, or similarcntcrprises; provided: . . . (a) The slructure shall minimize encroachmert waterw"ard ofIoe orolnary hlgh water mark and its tor"l length shall be appropriatcly sized to ?I?1-q:_"I: Tggring space for each rentat cauin oi carnpsirll.it pr*i ,.ason-aole DumDer ot moonDg spaces for transient walercraft- . (!) The developmenr plan shall bc approved by the local landuse control aurhoriry. (4) Public offshore sructure projecs; providcd: .- (a) A local unit of govcrnmenl shall pass a rcsolution whichspecifies rhe public intercsr ro be be;efilcd Uy ttre piojosaj.- ' (b) The-srrucrure shall bc appropriatcly sized consisrenr wilh.ne oemard ror moonng racirilies in the area and rhe number of warcrcrafi ro beserved. (c) The strusture shall be available for use by the general public. . - (d) The developmenr plans shall miaimizc the warcrwardcncroachmenr of tbe faciliries. (5) Otrshore marinas; provided: (a) The area shall be zoned for such usc or local govcrnmentshall grant a land use permit. - .. (b) Tbe. proposed marina shall minimize cncroachment water-waro ot llle ordrnary hrgh water mark. (c) The marina shall be sized consisrent wirh the dcmand formooring facilitics in the area and the number of warercaft to -U" a".r.a. Subp. 5-. X.etaining wells end erosion end sedimentation controt structucs. Apermit shall be required for the construoioo or r""oosi^cti* "rn ,Jr"i"irigwalls and erosion and sedimengfion control structures rtii io not i-por"Ewatcr. The @nslrucrion of rcraining wa s shall Ue aiscouraeed Uccausj rlelrappearaDce is generally not coasistent with rhe natural cn"ir6nment aad rheirconstruction and maintenancc cost is geDcrally gre"te, tn o ;p"p. The issuancc of pcrmits shall bc conringent on thc fo[owing conditions: . A Existing or expcrtcd erosion problems shall precludc rhc usc ofrioraoshorc prorection, or Gcre shall bc a dtmonsrrated .'""d i;;-di-"r--d;-fiedockiug; or . B-. Dcsign shall bc consistenr with existing uscs in rbc arca- Examplcsare: riverfront commerciar-indusrriar arcas r""i.i iririos-rr-ctures of ihisnature, densc residendal shorcland areas where sinilar rctifrirg *alls are oom- I91 T$ro_ $ere floaring docks may be aruchcd lo such a buikhca4 or where Darges arc utllxzed lo traDspofl equipmcnt and supplies: and 9.. Adequare clginecring studies shall bc performcd of foundation con_dllrons, tlebacks. rntemal drainasc, construcrion materials, aDd protecdon ,g,inst 0anking; and D. The facility shall nor be an aestheric intrusion upon the area aad is 5us.02t r PUI consistcnt witl programs for I E. En the absolute m Subp. 6. B, or reconstucti subpan 4, iren A. the B. rhe launching of u C. the D. cor resuh in substr Subp. 7. ( rcconstrucdon. slructurcs, cab covered by spe A. Per minor mainter work, shall be (1 (: menl cost of tl (: increased bv v. of the struciur. (4 local land use < (5 B. Per owred $ructu, (l tal impadi (2 pressures; and (3 ily obtrusive o, C. Th, structures shall mental unit ac( removal. Subp. 8. Rr a $ructure is n navigatioa, or rcmoved from Except as provi for lhe removal boathouscs, bri provided: A. rhe as pracricable; B. ade from rcmoval, : 1 I I I , I il I I - ; _. .: I i I 6rr5.02r r or cluster local lard :cnr,-ard of iy sized to i a reason- Iocal land ion which :ral public. watcrward leDt water- cmand for vcd. octurcs. A I reuining r impound :ause their . and their 'ditions: e of riprap shoreland Examples res of this s arc com- I, or wherc :atron con- ion agaiDsl t I I I crward of ty sizcd to re number of natural local land or similar rstent with 'craft to be Jvemment 6115.02IT PI,]BLIC WATER R"ESOURCES 5382 consistent with all applicable local, state, and federal management plans and programs for the water body; and E. Encroachment below the ordinary high warcr mark shall be held to the absolute mi mum necessary for construction. Subp. 6. Bo.t Lunching rup. A permit shall be rcquircd for the construction or reconstruction ofany boat launching ramp not covered under pan 61 15.0210, subpan 4, item C, and shall bc granted provided: A. the applicanr shdl dcmonstrate a need for a launching facility; B. the proposcd ramp shall bc of the minimum dimcnsions nectssary for launching of watercraft; C. the proposcd ramp shall not obstruct flowing wareq and D. construction shall not necesitate alteration ofshoreland which could rcsult in substantial erosion and sedimentation. Subp. 7. Other facilities. A permit shall be rcquired for the constnrction, reconstruction, relocation, removal, repair, and abandonmenr ofall orher offshore srructures, cables olher than utility crossings, pilings, or o$er facilities nor covered by specific regulations: A. Permis for structural repair, relocation, or modifrcation, other lhan minor maintenance work such as reroofing, painting of structures or similar work, shall be issued provided all ofthe following condidons are met: ( I ) lhe applicanl demonstnates a need for the work; (2) the cost of the work will not exceed 50 pcrcent of the replace- ment cost of the slructure; (3) the degree ofpermanence oflhe struclure will not be materially increased by vinue of constructing a new foundation or rcplacing the majoriry of the struclure above the foundation; (4) the structure being repaircd has appropriate permits from the local land use or sanimry authority; (5) the degree of obsrruction or structure size is not increased. B. Permits for construclion, rclocation, or rcconsiruction of publicly- owned slruclures shall be issued where: ( I ) public need is documenred and ourweighs adverse environmen- tal impact; (2) the site is adequarely proleaed from the forces oficc and wave pressures: and (3) fie proposed construction is ofsound design and is not necessar' ily obtrusive or visually incompatible lYilh the narural surroundings. C. The construaion. relocation, or reconslruction of privately.owled struclures shall be p€rmitted only whcn a governmenBl agency or locd govern' menhl unit acceps responsibility for fururc maintenance ofthe structurc or its removal. Subp. 8. Removal of stnctures. Whcrc the commissioner has dctcrmined thar a strufiure is no longer functional, constitutes a public ouisance or a hazard lo navigation, or poses a threat to public health or safety, rhe structure shall be removed from protected waters under rhc applicablc provisions of thcse rules. Except as provided under pan 6l 15.0210. subpan 4, itcm D, a pcrmit is. rcquircd for tlie removal or abandonment ofall existing waterway obstructions including boathouses, bridges, culvcns, pilings, piers, and docks. Permis shall be issucd provided: A. the original cross-section and bcd condirions will bc rcstorcd insofar as praclicable: B. adequate provisions are made to mitigate any side cfrects resulting from removal. such as restoration of wave or currenl forces; and it lrca and is 5383 PUBLIC WATEN, NESO[JRCES 5II5.O22O C. no ponion of the srructure remains which would obstruct or impairnavigarion, interfere with rhe pessage of ftooa-;;;,';;;o]#uure ro crosionand sedimentation. maDagemctlt F such plans anc E. Th ments of pan protection of l F. Th or changing th ( (: ( erosion and se (. ( ( specics; ( powcr. Strotory Historf I 6115.022r SP ln sdditi( spccific rcquit APt commissioncr water resourc( maintenancc, ( body !av9 ba oofiliusstoncr ( natural condir a long pcriod actiYides of n essentially the for all practicr lban l-l/2 fce ( rcsponsibility trotr; obr^ined fron or owners oft will bc locarc( propagation c ( private intercl watcs and pr L 1 1 I I iI Sr.tutory Arthofity. MS s l0S.1Is Historr 8 SR JJj 5rrs.02r2 lI4-dTroNsHrp To STANDARDS AND CRTTERTA FOn OTHERACrnmES rNvolvrNc cH,ucas-w co-UiigaJiffiNr, oR cRossSFfTION. -.-.,U-ltg: 9lh.l.* specified in orher pans, parrs 6l f S.O2fO and 6t 15.021Isnar apply lo struclures omrroscd as pa1 of any othcr aaivity or acri"iiicsinctuding_bur nor limired rb, rilrini p"rtlJirl'.riidoi"'?i rs.tirsi;;o"ii.ii.pans 6l 1 5.0200 ro 6 t t 5.0202: uari rt "r -nmri, iorii si'ii.bizo id o r r s.dzfilbridgesan-d^cutv_ens, parrs 6r t 5.orlo r. oillloziTaraii"gJ Jip-t"a.a *rt"r.,pans 6t 15.0270 lo 6l t5.0272; ana alrerarionioi'prot-ffiirit"o i;rri;iil:part 6l 15.0280. Sretlttory Authorit!': MS s t0S.1l5 History: 8 SR 5J3 6IT5.0220 WATER LEVEL CONTROIS. ,_ ^_lr-!tT I. Gods. Ir is rhe goal of rhe depanmenl ro manage prorccrcd warerstn oroer lo: A. maintain natural llow and nalural water levcl conditions to thcmaximum feasible cxtent; . B. encourage the constructior ofsma upstream retarding struaures forthe- conservarion of waler in narural wa1e,t;i;;;-;;iiJ"*, consistcnrwith any overall plans for rhe afecred *.r"ori"a1L-; "nf,-'*C. limit rhe anificial manipulation of warer levels except where the3,:,y:l{:l:q pu-b,lic inrerests cf*,ry ;a-;;ih. irii,riir,_iit "?anpr_pnare @nrrols and lt ts nol proposed solely ro satis! privhte iDterc$s. Subp. 2. Scope. The construction, repair, reconstruction, or abandonment ofany srrudure inlended ro imnound, diven,'or conriot Gijeret oi[o* oi pr.lected walers shall be subjecl'lo the'provislons o-fiil;;. ''- . Su-bp. 3. Nondlowed wrter level conool fecilities. Construd.ion or rcconstruc-tion ofwarcr level control facilities snu noi ue auo*ci-*i"rc'it is rl-icnaea romanipulare walcr levels solely to satisfu prl""ii i"t*.su. --.' _---Sllp:_4. No permit ,rSuirS. .No pcrmir shall be rcquired to oonstruct,reconstruct, or abandon a water le-vcl conirol strudurc on p6rccr"a *arercourscjwrlh a conlriburing yarenhed of 30o a"res o.ters, "r"cpi 6;-;6;"[y diip"tcirrout slrcams' provided rhe struourc docs aor qualifuls a aam uaicr tli rutcsfor dam safcty. __-,S:E^lL:1r1yF_ .yurTd. permir <h4ll bc required for rlc coanoction,rcparr' rcoonstruclton, or abandonment of any water lcvcl control guuourd :xfpl as provided in subpans 3 and 4, snd rire[ mccr th; io[owi;; ;;;,rJcTttefla: .-_^^-.1fh_"_ry919!t will ilvo-ryc a minimum of cocroachmcal, .rrr'.ge, oroa$agc ro r-hc cnvronmcnr including but aor limircd ro fisu aaa wildlifc hiuital,aavigation, waler supply, norm watEr rcrentioo, -aigriculTural us6. B. Advenc efrccts on thc physical or biological chancter of the ratcrssball bc subjccr rc fcasible aod pra'cti'cat .""rur", 16 -itig"t -ric ctrcea. -.^_^,^_F.-A:-ppryTg p-j.T shall be consistctrt wirh applicablc lloodprain,snorelaDo' ano wud and scenic rivers managemenr sanaaras ano orainancis fb;&e waten involved. D. The proposcd projecr shall be consistcnt wilh waler aDd rclatcd laad 6115.0220 PUI , I I i i I I t' I I cES 6rr5.0r70 s-section of thc allow vchicular otbcr hydraulic orc structure for iities arc provid- nching mechan- capacity, refers 'rater $orage). ;truction, r€con- y for the ertrac- or oonmetallic ings basins, and ining Ancillary )otrol $ructures :-floating water- of the ordiaary lark- means the section 105.37, lock other than y uscful in the ' not limited to, g and handling re maintenance rillway designed blishcd for the ans an cnglnecr € waters of the ,tatut6, secdon ldin8, or rcnova- (:ecd 50 Pcrc€nt which is rcPrc- Minncsota and verage frequen- rical or ucadY' d rock or stone, suppons, sheet erials and con- 5356 Subp. 35. Ripnp shore protection. 'Riprap shorc protection' Incams @arsc stones, boulders, cobbles, artifrcialy broken rock or coacrele, or brick materials laid looscly or withio gabiou baskes againn rhc slopc ofthe existing banL ofa protectd water. Subp. 36. Scrsotrd fucf.'Scasond dock'mcals a dock so dcsigned and coustructed that it Eay be rcmoved from the lakc or stream bcd oo a scasonal basis. All compotrents such as suppons, decking and footing Eust bc capable of rrmovd by aoonechanized means. Subp. 37. Smaure. 'Structur€' Etcans any buildiag" footiag foundation, slab, roof, boathousc, dcch wall, or any olher object crterding ovcr, anchorc4 or pcrmaaently attached to the H or bart of a protected water. Subp. 38. Sard[rrl heighl 'Structural heigbt" E.ass thc vcrtical distaucc from the nalural tk of thc strea.m or walcr@ursc mcasured at the downstream toc of the cotrtrol slnrcture or ftom thc lowest elevation of rhe outside linit of the control structure, if it is uol across a strcam chaDtrcl or watercoursc, to the maximum storage clevation. Subp. 39. Swellheed. 'Swellhead" means the diference betwee! thc headwa- ter elevation neccssary to pass the regional flood through the proposcd structure and the railwater elevation bclow rhe $ructure. Subp. rl0. Temporery stncture. *Temporaty structurc" means any scasonal dock or ooatilg structure that can bc removcd from pmtected watcrs before winter frceze-up. Subp. 4l . Wrtercoorse. 'Watercoursc' means any chaanel having definablc beds and bants capable of conduaing Betrcrally c6nfinsl runof from adjaccnt lands. During lloods water may leave ths 6sffining treds aad benk( but und€r low and normal flows water is con6ncd within the chamcl. A watercousc may bc percnnial or intcrmittent Subp. 42. Wrter lcvel cotrEol sE[ctE e. 'Watcr level control structurc' meaos any stnrcturc which impounds or rcgulates thc water surface clcvation or flow of protecred waterq including rlams regulated under thc provisions of pans 6l 15.0300 to 6l 15.0520. Subp. 43. Whrrf. 'Wharr means a pcnnanent stnrcturc constructd itrto navigable waters as a part ofa pon facility for bcnhing or mooring commercial watercraft, or for transferring carEo to and from watcrcraft in an industrial or commercial enterprisc, or for loading or unloading passcngcrs from commercial watercraft, or for tbc opcration of a pon facility. St tutory Authority, MS s 105.415 History: E SR 53J 6lf5.0f$ [Repcalcd by amcndment, 8 SR 5331 6T15.0190 FIIIJNG TNTO PROTECTED WATERS. Subpan l. GoIs. It is thc goal of rhe depanqcnt to limit the placement of any 6ll marerial inro proteoed waters in order to: A miaimizc cncroachmctrt, chatrgc, or damage to the environment; B. regulatc the quantity and quality of 6ll and thc purposcs for which filling may bc allowed bascd upoo the capabilirics ofthc waters to assimilate the material; and C. maintain consistency rvith floodplain, shorclan4 atrd wild and sccnic rivers managemcnt standards and ordinanccs. Subp- 2- Scopc. Filling as used in this pan involvcs placement of urrconitrcd or loosely conhned marerials in protected waters- Subp. 3. Nonpcrnitted phcrtnent Placement shall not be permitted in thc following cascs: I T ;I I t t I I t :lex esrablished It to Minnesota 6TT5.OUO PUBLIC WATER RES'OI'RCES 5T67 PI,IBLIC WATER RESOI.JRCES 5Ir5.Or9O A. to achieve vcjeElion control; B. to crcate upland arcas, exccpt where expressly provided herein; C. to stabilize bcds ofproteoed waters which cannot suppon 6ll materi- als bccausc of cxccssive depths of muck, stecp bank, bcd slope, or olhcr @adi- tions; D. to stabilize or impound the site of activc springs; - E. to dispos€ of rocl sand, gravcl, or any-other solid marcrial resulting from activiries carricd our above the ordinary high water mark; F. to construct a roadway or;uthway, or create or improve land accesses from periphcral shorclands to islands, or to facilitate laod ransportation across thc waten; howcver, where a projecr is proposed by a fcdcral, sletc, or local government agency and this provision would prevcnt or rcstrict rhc projea, or crcate a major conllicl with other public purposes or interests, the commilsioner may waive this provision provided: ( I ) rhere is no other fcasible and pracrical alterDative ro rhe projecr that would havc less cnvironmental impact; and (2) that the public need for the projea rules out thc no.build dtcrnative; G. filling of posted fish spawning areas is prohibited. Subp. 4. No pernit rcqoired. No pcrmit shall be requircd for $c following activitics unless prohibired under subpan 3: A. To insull a beach sand blanket provided the sand or gravel laycr does not cxcced six inches in thickness, 50 fcet in width along thc shorcline, or onc-half tbe width of the lot, whichever is less, and does not cxtcnd more than tcn feet iaterward of the ordinary high water mark, provided local watershed distria and local zoning officials are givcn al leasl scvcn days nolice by the landowncr. B. For one additional installation ofa sand or gravel layer subscgucnt ro an initial installation at thc same location and not excecding thc samc amouns and dimensions allowed under item A. C. To insall riprap shore protcction, except along the shorcs of l-ake Superior and officially desigDated troul strcams, providcd the riprap marcrials consist of narural rock having an average size of I 2 inches or larger in its smallest dimensioa, and conform with the natural alignment of the shorcline, wirh a minimum frnished slopc not stecpcr than 3: I horizontal:vcrtical, no malerials are placed more than five feet waterward of the ordinary high watcr mark, and the marerial does Dot obstruct the llow of water. D. To placc fll in a protected watercourse having a toral drainagc area, at its mouth, oftve square miles or less, provided that the rfl'atcrcourse is not an omcially desigDatcd lrout strram and lhe placement of 6ll shdl not resuh ia: ( I ) any diversions of water from the drainage area; (2) any impoundment of warers by drrrrning lhe watcroourse; (3) any aaions which would resulr in cmsioa and causc scdimenta- tioa of downstream warrs as deternhed by the couory or local soil and watcr conscrvatioD district Subp. 5. Pcroits requirql Pcrmis shall bc rcquircd for the placcmeDt ofiU in protecred v/aEr\ cxcept as providcd undcr subparts 3 eDd 4, ard shall mcct all of rhe followiog rtquirtmcnts: A- thc project will involve a minimum of cBcoachmcnl, change, or damage to thc cnvironnc , including but not limited to 6sh atrd wildlife habitat, aavigation, watcr supply, aod $orm water rctcntionl B. thc fill consists of clcan inorganic materid that is free of pollutants and nutrientsl C. thc cxistencc of a stable, supponing foun&tion is established by 6r15.0190 PUB appropnatc me. commissioncq D. whe lhe sire condirio crosion control consi*ent with E. the t a specifrc need . F. the r phy, and suscep and currents ar, G. adv shall bc subjecr H. the shoreland, and the watcrs invo Lthe; management pl such plans and Strtutory A Histor!,: 8 6rr5.0r9l SPE Subpan l. in pan 61 15.0l shall bc met as Subp. 2. Ri erosion by plac providcd: A. Thr withsrand icc : amounl of spac be 6Jled wirh 6: surfacc. B. Tht of well-gnded I of the riprap. C. Tht to provide prot Subp. 3. Ir shall bc pcrmit attaitred by util drcrnativcs wb Fill for na, shall not crccc( amaximumwi depth greater r Subp. 4. S land lost by er< A. rhr impending loss B. the or llow condit waters involve< an applicarion cEs 61r5.0r90 Jc{ hercin; pon frll mareri- or olhcr condi- rrcrial rcsulting 'e land acccsscs crtation across state, or local thc projecr, or commissioner : to thc project : the aobuild ' ttre following rvel layer docs ne, or one-half ' rhan rcn feet :d disrricr and ndowner. er subscquent Emg amouDts \ores of [:ke rap materials in its smdlest rlinc, with a materials are narh and the trainage area, 'rrsc rs not an ,t rrsult in: efcounse; c scdimcnta- )il and watcr lmcnt of 6ll d shdl mcct , change, or JIife habiral ,f polluranrs 5rrs.0t90 pLJBr]C WATEX. RESOLTncEs 536E lllt1ll1! -ors, includi.g soil boring data whcre deemed ucccssary by rhecor!!fiusronet D. wberc crosion omtcction is dcemed ncccssary by lh3 66mrni<sisner,the sirc condidoos a"a m ,i-t"ria "rc "apalG-olr-ffifriuiirt by aD approyedcrosiln contro,l method such as riprap, rer4iniag watl- or ortrer rocthod vhich isconsistcnr wirh existiug land rs*;;-rFatr"cdd ;;,;;ffi,"r; "'**"t;* *:r*i*rl#ru'"rffi##i mioi-at iopict sototioo to ,h,,*dl;*,lff iiyrihdjBs:' jH[Hk-."*r*ir#jtrtif"r##r* and cuntns are such rhat te nu *f 'uiiriulel G advcrsc effccts on rhe phys;fal or biological charactcr of the watcrsshall be subjcct to fcasibte and poA'ol;;u;6frffi.*rt";fr"cri;.--.-.- H. rhe proDoscd filtinS-musr bc consistenr wi$ Ipplicable floodplain,shoreland, atd wild and scenic nven managemeot standards and ordinances forlhe waters iavolved; I. the proposed frlling must- be consisrent with water and related landmanagement plans aad prognms of local. 1la rcgrqnat lo"i--eor, providedsuch plans and programs are consistcnt wit sratc-ptani i"a p-gfa-s. Strtutory Art[ority, MS s 105.4j15 Historyr E SR 5JJ 5T T5.OT91 SPECIFIC STANDARDS. . Subp.an- l.In-gen.rrt. In addirion to compliancc with Oe genera.l $atrdardsm pan 6115.0190. suboans 2 lo 5, spccifii r"C.fi;";1" ?;Eceflai! adiviri*shall bc mct as followr- Subp. 2. Ripnp sborc protection Thr protecrion ofshoreliae from conrinuederosron by placement of narural roct< ;piap atoni tt; .hoiii"X b. ;;tn-;provided: :Tr,si#i"?,ff I""Hil*if ""[*rtri,'fi ,,oHy;T]H**ffi.H amounl of spacc betwccn the larger mar-ria.ls ana te ipice Uctween them shallbc lxed wirh 6nnly seated smallj,,ocri 6, giui-";;fifi";i*.* a uniformsurlace- B. The sire soils are caqlb-le-9fs.uqn9ni"g rlp3p and a 6lter consistingofwell-graded gravel. crushcd sronc, or faUiit is ins-ralia ioirir-enr unoercuttingof the nprap. . 9. The encroachmenr into lhe water is the minimum amounr necesisarato provide prolecdon and does not unauty-interriii'.frit',# fffi;i;;i*,. ..lrbp. 3. Nevigationel rcess Filling io.gain navigational'access ro warcrssfaf ue. gcrmilp.a onty wherc acccss ro -na"i[aure a"iili'iiilor bc rcasonablvarhrned by uriliTins a doch the exca"arion ofil ofsdrii#;#i;;"d;1alternatives which would r6ult itr less;ri.;;;A;;;- :'l ";t !i"Fi'$:!lqiGiSii,:t, 1:it#Ht"l"*".*:*1,"ff l ;:::la maxrmum widrh of l5 feer at the basc orrnc m, ana Jtari o6itrrcnd ro , *"rerdepth greater than four fcet. . -!ubp, 4. Shoreline lost by cmsion- Applications for frlling ro rccovcr shorE-land losr by erosion or orher narurar iorifi;b"ii'i;;-;r_-i-niE inry *mr.,A. the loss of shoreline is a lhreq! to heairh and safcty rhrough thcimpending loss or damage ro .r"unf ,[or.-ti.,i-atiji]i"ii,i,i" - B. the loss ofshorcline has-occurrcd as a result of changcs in watcr levelor flow condirions causcd by arlincrat riranilJari;;T ilil1, lcvels of lhewaters invotved wirhin a pcri6d of nor .o." ill" nr.-y'd"-plii,t ,rr" a"t" *rr.oan applicarion for filling'is submrned. 1 { It II I rablishcd by -_ : 5359 PUBLIC WATER RESOURCES 6115.0200 The rcquirements ofitems A and B sha nol preclude thc issuance of permitsto place riprap mareriars or Te-oJle,. ;trufi;i-;;;'ilirorecrio, of th"shoreline lo prevenl conlinuous erosron_ -__Ibf 5. pon development.or inprovement. Filling necessary for pon devel-opmenl or rmprovemenl sha, be arowed only on rnoie'*aiii ;r,r.ri'iii -rii"i the jurisdicrion of estabtished pon autho.i-rtei ,ubj";i"ili folo*iog,A. no filline shall he allowed.ro €xtc-nd beyond the limirs of federallvesrablished harbor lines, or where no harbor line fiis- *ei'esi *i,[?:T]fl $:f ffi Htfi "" *r,iir, i..iura;'"ir.in; ;fr?l,i'i*,H#fi1 B. the proDosed developmenl must. be,part ofa comprehensive pondevelopmear plan which has bee'n approred Ui-tfi. "o-m-iriion.c "noC. adverse effecrs dr*Xpefg flfing.on the physicat and biological ::ilffijj.:#. area shall be subjeo ro mitigaiion measuies "ppror.a Ly-rii Subp. 6. Fish rnd $ildlife hrbiat. FillinA ro resrore or improve frsh andwildlife habiur. exceor for fi,rng in oesignatit"rr6ui ,E;:: sha, be perminedprovided plans are submirred ;h;*i;tii;;-;;;* i,riiii,'iiLi'"r habirar ro bcbenefired. and rhe projecr w,r nor creire orher adversi c,ie'crs- suctr as flooding,erosron, sedimenution, or navigational oUsrruciloni.-- -'---- ' Subp. 7. Trour streams. Filling in-lroul srreams officially designated by thecommissioner shall be allowed oniy if: . . A. the amounr, merhod of placemenq and location of thc 6ll will notrcsult in increased water lemDeralurei, excessi"L seaimenffi;ilii;;;;;destruaion of fish habiurl ahd B. there is no other feasible or practical alternative other than filling., Subp. 8. orher purposes. Filling.for otherpurposes not spccificauy lisred stiaLlbe. subjea lo- the general srandarls. i" p"n 6 lil.o I 96; -irf,p"* 2 ro 5 andsubmission ofinformadon lo show thar: _. A. rhe inrended purpose.of the fill is rcasonable with respecr to all othera*ernauves and there are no feasible and pracricar means to'ai-iin rtrJii";a;purpose without fitling; and B. the proposal will adequately protccr public safety and ptomore thepublic welfare. Strtutory Aurhodt!: MS s l05.4IS History: 8 .SR 53J 6l 15.0192 R!:l4,IIgNSHrp To STAN-DARDS AND CRTTERTA rroR oTI{ERAcTnTrrEs rwOLv:rNG CHANces n couiiE-Cr-lifri:Lr, oR CROS$SECTION. . _-Unless orherwise specified in other pans, pans 6t 15.0f90 and 6l f S.0l9lshatl apply to frllingprolposed a, pan oi"[i othil;ffry.;;;iiiCi*,ft;;bul nol- limired ro: Excavarions pans 6t IS.oztlo to or i-i.oioz-,-sr*ctures parrs6tr5.02t0 ro 6l t5.02t2, Warei-level "ontrol, pan"-oiii.rizio' i. -or is.dzzi i#,,r,tt'rJ;",rxi,tfj ji?11,;s,:Irfl,*,.iffi ,,#H"S#f mpan 6115.0280. Strtutory Autbority, MS s )05.115 History': 8 .SR 533 6IT5.0200 EXCAVATION OF PROTECTED WATERS.SylpT l. Gods. Ir is-thc goal oflhe dcpartmcDt to Iimit the excavation ofmalenals trom the bcds ol protecred waters in ordcr to: A. preserve the natural charactcr of protected waters and their shore- 51r5.0200 PI laads, il orde: panic'u.larty d B. rt cxcavations $ cxcavation; ar C. co and prorcd sr other advcne Subp. 2. r rrsults in the deepcning, srr rDvolve propo water mark. Subp. 3. I following case A. wl such acccss ca in less enviror B. wl aoariparian la ian lands; C. wh and wildlife hz or ccologically D. to areas; E. wh Ix)SeS CXCept a: F. wh problem becau alternative soh G- un disposal of cxc H. wh s,ould lowcr &r Subp. 4. N the following a A for arta, at its mor DOt an o6c'2u] (r (2 (3 tion of downs[ conscrraatioa di B. to rt rcmonal docs r craters; C. for : lo Minngsota 5.'rcpair' sct fon Subp. 5. Pe rcmoval of aay I I I T !00 ltts :hc el- icr llv nd ng !rl -al he nd 6TT5J'2OO PI,,IBLIC WATER RESIOUNCES 5370 hads, in ordcr ro miaimizc cncroec.hmcnr, change, or damagc to thc cnvironmcn!panicularly lhe ccoslsrem of the warersj . B. rcguFtc lhe Daturc, dcXrcc, and purpose of cxcavations so thalcxcavadons will be compadble with the iapauairy 6f te uaren to assimitatc ticxcavation; aad . C. conrrol the dcposition of matcrials cxcavatcd from protccr.d watcrsan(l prolocl and prcscrvc the watcrs and adjaccnt letrds tom scilimenradoo andothcr advcrsc physical aod biological cfecis. Subp. 2. Scope. Excavadon as uscd in this rulc inctuda rny activiry whichresults in the displacemenr or rcmoval of botrom -rrc.iati & tt" *ia"riirl, .df15lilq srraigh.rcning re{ignlne -or cxrending of prorccrca warers, li ;a:yrnvolvc proposals lor cxcavations landward or waterward from tbc ordinary higf,watcr mark. - -- Sgbp. 3. Fionpcrnitted ercrvltiron ErcavarioD shall nol bc permined in thefollowing cases: A. where it is intended to gain access to navigable water depths whcnsuch acccss can be reasonably aruined by altcrnativc nieans *hicb *ould rcsultrn tcss envrronmeDtal Impact; B- where inland excavation is inrended lo extcnd riparian rights tononriparian lands, or ro promote the suMivision ana Aevetopmint oi roftpar_ian landsl - .. -C.. where the proposed excavation will be detrimenlal to signifrcanr frshand wildlife-habitat, or_ protected vc3etation ana *rere arc no fcasif,t$;Aa:or ccologically acc€prablc means to hitigate rhe efects; D. to control or eliminate vegetation for the devclopmcnt of bcachareasi E. wherc ir is intended ro provide 6ll marcrials for devclopmcnr pur_poses exccpt as provided under parr 61 15.02E0; F. where lhe cxcavation would not provide aa efcsrive solution to aproblem because of rccurrent scdimenudon aDd there are fcasible ana p-aria"lalteraative solutions which do not require excavarion; G. unless Lhe excavation project includes provisions for acccptabledisposal of excavarcd materials as pi-ovided in these rulcs;;;--' H. where thc excavadon would cause incrcased scepaSe of urarer whichwould lowcr the walcr lcvel of protedcd walers and rcsult irirfru*"o a.ai"ad". - ,.!HUr. L No p€rmit required. No permir for cxcavation shall be rcquircd iorLhc lolloung acriviries unless prohibired in subpan 3: A. for cxcavations in a protccted wateroourse having a toul draioageatea, al i$ mouth, of five square miles or less, providcd thar 6e urarercoursc'isnol an othcrally desrgDarcd tfout strram aDd thc cxcayatioo wilt not result iE:(l) any diversions of watcr from the drainagc arca; (2) aly impound;cnt of watcrs by ,t.rn,rring lhe watcrcourse; (3) any acrions which would rcsulr in cmsion and cause scdimcota-uon ol downstrEam watcrs as dctcrmincd by fhe ouaty or local soil ald satcrconscrvadon district; B. to remove dcbris such. as trecs, logs, stumps, aDd trash providcd suchremov.l docs not alrcr the original rtignmisq doi", or croilcctlo"-oifi walct'ts; C. for rcpair ofa public-4r-ainage sysrcm lawfully cstabti(hcd pursuatrt 10 Mplesoq Starut6, chaplers 106A and I 12 consisrcui wiu rhc dciiition of-rcparr" sct fonh in Minaesob Srarulcs, scaion 106A701, suMivision t. Subp. ^5. Pernis ryqui1ed, Permirs shall bc rcquircd for thc cxcavadon andremoval ol any materia.ls from protected walcN or aoy cxcavatiotrs extcnding ed i)€ r& ne ot or all nd ed ire Ri )l r8 1s., rs 'r8 rf e- I ! ll lr ll II II il I i : : i I I I Ii I 537 t PI.JBLIC WATEN, NESOURCEIS 5I15.O2OO into or out of protectd walcrs, except as providcd in subpans 3 and 4, and shall be subject ro thc following general criteria: A. Thc project must be reasonable and practical bascd upon geologic and hydrologic conditions including but not limited to: (l) quantity and quality of local drainagc at rhe site; (2) typc of scdimenVsoil *rara and unde4round formations in thc viciniry; (3) life expcctanc-v of the cxcavation with rtspecr to bedload, long- shore drift, and silution patterns in the project vicinity; and (4) protcction ofthe water body from increased sccpage, pollution, and other hydrologic impacs. B. Thc disposal of excavated matcrials shall bc subjcct to rhe following rcquiremcnls: ( I ) The disposal of any excavatcd materials containing polluratrts shall be subjecr to requirements of Minnesota Srarutcs, chaptcr I15. (2) The most acceprable means ofdisposing of clean marerials, frec from pollutants, which are excavated from protected walers listcd in order of preference are: (a) Complete removal of cxcavatcd materials from the waters and disposal or reuse for olher purposes outside of lhe floodplain. (b) Deposition in stable onJand disposal sires located above rhe ordinary high warer mark and outside of floodway districts established under local ordinance. Provisions must be included for sodding sceding or otherwise propcrly stabilizing these materials. (c) Temporary deposirion along shorclines or within llood- plains by stockpiling marerials for subsequent removal to areas outside of any prorected waten and outside of established floodplain districts provided that: any stockpile materials are removed within one year of stockpiling; and the srockpile is constructed so that any materids or watcrs enlering or leaving the stockpile arc controlled to prevent any introduction of scdimenr into the environ- menl surrounding the srockpile. (d) Rcdeposition of excavated malerials, consisting of inorgan- ic materials frre from polluranB, into protecled waters shall only be pcrmittcd whcn it will rcsult in improvemenl of natural conditions of protcctcd waters for rhe public bcnefit and will not result in scdimenralion, obstruaion ofnavigadon, or a loss ofish or wildlife habirat. Scparare permit provisions shall be required for redeposilion of excavated materials subject to the srandards and criteria of subpans 2 to 5. (e) Determination ofthc public bcncfit scrvcd by redeposition of excavatcd materials shall be bascd on tle vduc ro rhe public of rcdePositcd maraials in order to protcct shorelines from the damaging cffcas of crosion duc ro winds and wavcs whcn thcre are no olhcr feasible, practical, aad ccologically acceptable mcans lo protcct tle shorcline; or creatc or improve habital areas for 6sh ind wildlife; or mitigatc or cnhancc thc physical aod biological cnvironmenr withitr protcctcd watcrs urhen mirigSrive or enhanccmcnt mcasurcs arc rcquired as a condition of a permittcd activity u/ifiin the clatcrs involvcd and $crt arr no othcr fcasible, practical, and ccologically acccplable mitigative mcasures' C. The proposcd project must represcnt rbe 'miDimal impact" solution to a specific nccd with rcspcct to all orher rcasonable dtcrnadves- D. Thc excavation must be limitcd to thc miDimum dimeasions ncccs- sary for achieving rhc desircd purpose. E. Whcre excavation is proposcd in a Protcctcd tlatsr lhar is p€Tched on an impervious stratum, soil borings hust show that lhe proposcd cxcavation will not rupture tre impcrvious stratum. 6II5.O2TT PUBLIC \ consistent with all a: programs for the wal E. Encroach the absolule minimu' Subp. 6. Bort hu or reconstruclion ofa subpan 4, irem C, ar A. the applit B. the propo launching of walercr; C. the propr D. construct result in substantial r Subp. 7. Other I reconstruction. reloc€ structures, cables ol covered by specihc r A. Permirs I minor mainlenance work. shall be issued (l) rhe (2) rhe ment cosl of the strL (3) the , incrcased by vinue r of thc slructure abo\ (4) rhe local land use or sax (5) the B. Permits owned structurcs sh; (l)pub ral impafl; (2) rhe prcssures; and (3) rhe ily obtrusive or visu C. The con struaures shall bc p mental unit accepts removal- Subp. E. Remov: a structure is no lon navigation, or pose: removcd from prott Erccpt as providcd r for lhe rcmoval or a boarhouscs, bridges provided: A. thc origi as practicabl€; B- adequal from rtmoval, such I rIt ti. trnD DEVELOilEIT tDPrircxf,r(xcrtl ot cPrllrrcsE 690 @ultcr DrlvcCh.!hr..cD, t0t 55317(512) 937-1900 cHz IS AJ6ZL o,/NERz ,lo>2,Znxe .IDDRESS Js-t !EIAPBOIIE 9s4.rzta IPPIICANTS IDDRBSS 7a r At sgit P @de ileDDCa UDlt tlvelolnent - Shetch Plan _ Prellalnary Plan _ FiDal Plan Subdllvlrlou _ Platting' Etca aDd EouDA8 Strcet/EaseDeDt Vacatlon SetlaDds PcrDit - Zozrtr J' ,4rJC A IELEPEONE (Daytine) REQOEST: { PRGTECT NAIITE PRESENT IAND USE PLAllI DESIGNASION REOT'ESTED IAND OSE PLT}I DESIGNATION PRESENI ZONING Rrs,a ,el- RAQI'ESTED ZONING ?e,,2/ USES PROPOSED e )SIZE OF DROPERTY I'CATION SE€r*tzAc(ttzttT REASONS FOR IIIS NEQTST 44. atq Ct7 oioe* to 3cstoac Azca €*t7-. cr..-..t.L a7a7e. /4,a)aS aa.a.2*.-J Q o7,lco2.t234 zle As.*.ra7..*t 4ro.. a ,1. tC ZZ 02 &Po ot4.a 7 ltae 7re 1)a7 aa.ro arql 6.Da*= a t 'a. - !' urr-a t-at* etal 7a Sectt o.ta (L-^.-, A.r. U,E n.r.,u.Z at2e 70 ?*c.,e- 7.rc a).r.a IAGAI, DESCRIPIIOf, ur -a ea./,s,, co 4t. A:14 ty'7c..-lat kcal Fo2 Z c. uly(Attr ch lcgrl lf aecctaary ) / orots Aeke 6 cnazaau,r essoc tt7toy' o 4tTao7 A ( sz z. /?tt e ta\ toalng Dietrict Cbaage Eonlag lppcal Zoning VarhDce Zoaing llext &end.Deat Lnd Use Plan lDenalment Condlitional Use Peruit Site Plao Revlee t 3 Clty of CbaDhassen Land Developnen t lpplicatlon Page 2 FILING INSTRUCS rONS: Slgned By lhis appricgtiinrugi be congretea u'roii- *i oi'a"r"rrittcn biclearly printed end nust * l..oiianfea-oy. aII lafornation end iitigl!!ii':3,iI":ii:i;'Si.;tff 'S*:i.,*ffi i"$i,rm,to deterDine the roecitic- oraraaa-- eoa-1,ro"caurii -rldirrrot" epplicablc to your rppric.ir""l--],=1.- ...., .. FILING CERTTFICAIIoN' . liir 33li:' !Hi.i::':i;t.:i::,::"!*"i,3:i:it!i3iilol.!r* f , cs rpplicable City Ordinaaces. . ,?-re*//-t %--* da..,:,r; fhe. undersigned hereby certifics that the applicant hag beenruthorized to Eake this application ioi--tl"-ii"p.iiy;;r;;-described. a Date t. zr. tu, D!tc r ?hls lpp Board of DeetinE . Fee Orme r Date ApplicatioD nccelveal Appllcatloa Pee paidl_ Clty Receipt f,o. llcatlon rtlt bc coarldercd by lbc pbaalaE Cmtrtoa,/Adljustoeats aoit llpcalt at tlcfi- -r '-' )i-. \- .r- l-: t, ) 819neil ay DAV E LO F!4v-- o L of us LAT€le* -4 a*rd!f 017f't'r'tto 42 Qcl-o*r>t-- @Dq, N \-oSla.r 1S4. P,N .-' ., I I STATE Lorus ^a1, v." \ o Ltar?i:.\ .4. l.:-_ --- LAEe 6etfCCrtg.lr fisso<2,47to) OoiLoT / , +l ) ) \ I tt\r-n, \ ,?. \q A ..fr, -,J L r s U ED '\r * 6 F*.T ..:.at Lr))e L 3 --n o 'o r -:-- c !'s.6o, {(] s 5. rrg-1! -B oo r\ \'.:_rdIl.Z E,a jo It'n''{'?:,1'Et')i :|,'L-!1 '..-..ig o3\ t L-c'r s 5 ,,}! c o (A o.a r,..'ia Zeb l?E;-*[iA; 4t I . {D / @ o-{)j-'. €cLi' ( L. -4I b ; li $ 0. o 9 n...1 ::j Vice Chairman Erhart I{EHBERS PRESENT: and Joan Ahrens called the meeting to ord6r at Erhart, Annette EI lson, Brian 7:35 p.m.. BatzIi, Jim WildernruthTim HEI,IBERS ABSENT: Ladd Conrad and Steve Emmings STAFF PRESENT: Paul. Krauss, Planning Director; Jo Ann Olsen, SeniorPlanner; Sharmin AI-Jaff, Planner One; Gary l.larren, City Engineer, Mark KoegIer, Consultant and Charles Folch, Asst. Engineer PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIHINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 159 SINGLE FA].1ILY LOTS ON 63-7 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED PUD-R AND LOCATED ON THE I.IEST SIDE OF POI,.IERS BOULEVARD ( CO -RD. 17), JUST SOUTH OF THE EXISTING LAKE SUSAN HILLS 2ND AND 3RD ADDITIONS- Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Vice Chairman Erhartpubl ic hearing to ordey. caI led the Brian Olson: My name is Brian Olson and I'm r.ri.th Argus Development, thedeveloper on lhis project. Argus Development is owned by Joe Miller. ue aLso owns Joe Hiller Homes. rne'Il be the only buirder in this subdivision.I had e few things to go over on the conditions of approval . I think I,IIjust pretty much aLl the conditions are basically okay. I would just Iiketo be able to work out a couple of the issues urith the engineeringdepartment on a staff level . If there's anything in particular it's lhe,I guess it's condition 9 on the staff report. It has to do with theponding area. If you would like, I'd Iike to give my own presentation abcut the ponding area. Do you have that one transparency? This diagram'se little misleading. t,hat you see there as far as the dark area, that iswhat is going to be a wet pond at all times. t^lhat you see as a shaded areais a 1OO year flood level elevation of the pond. This pond has to belocated in Lhis part of the site and it Has also approved in that locationas a part of the original PUD. Now the reason is is 3/4 of the storm Naterdrainage from this new development is heading to this area and this is thelowest part of the site and the h,ateshed district is going to require a sedimentsation pond in this area. tle had quiLe a bit of discussion of thisat Park where the staff would like to see the pond moved to the northernpart of this addiLional park area but I think it uas pretty much consensusat the Park's commission meeting that it was okay r^rhere it was unlesscertain things were met and that uas with the trailurays that are going around that area. Just so they were always out of the 1OO year flood area. Now the ponding area, you can really design that to be any kind ofconfiguration, especially the 1OO year flood area. I think you'd want your wet pond to have more of a natural outline to it, around it but a 1OO yearflood you could have it really any kind of odd shape, It's only going to happen perhaps once in a 1OO years so h,e can design this so it wiII fit injusL risht with the trails and make all the grades to work out and I real]ydon't think you'd urant to have a pond on the north part of the site anyuray. They are not really bad soils there. There are some organics and there's ahigh trater Lable which limits for building construcLion but now that'd bejust perfect for some park use and it's also one of your few flat areas+-hat you have for your park uses there. And as a matter of fact, if we . CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMI,IISSION REGULAR MEETING JUNE 6, 1990 Planning Commission June 6, "1990 - Page l,leet i ng 2 were alloured to have additional single family Iots as Part of this PUD, we would have single family lots in that area. But since tle urere limited, Ne -just chose to take the most prohibitive for footings and road construction and keep them out of that area because it is costly to correct it for that area. So that's one thing, that we would like to see haPPen here is to keeP- the pond where iL's at with some slight modifications to the configurationjust to staff recommendation on it. The other thing was about the stree! grades. Apparently you have a city ordinance that states thaL you cannot have street grades ovey 7z in sloPe and we're shouring 3 areas of 8? slope. - Those areas are right here adiacent to the Pond and just to the west of the County Road through this location and a little bit in here. tle would like to still see it a! the 8Z slope. Really what iL means is a difference -beth,een an 82 and a TZ sloPe would be 1foot of height and 1OO feet which when you add up 1,oOO feet, you know that's 10 feet and reallv urhat ue'd have to do here to keep these grades to meeL the standard of City ordinance, we'd have to take off another 10 feet off the whole toP of that site and we're talking over quite a few lots. Risht nolJ we're a little Iong on dirt the way it is and I also heard from the county yesterday and they are now renigging on Part of their agreement to us to take 11O'OOO yards of dir!. They uant to move it back to 8O,OOO yards so we have a Iot of dirt out here. [.le've got to put it somewhere so if you're going to require the 82, we're going to have to take off another 10 feet off the top. It just is going to prohibit the develoPment. So that's one thing that ure would Iike to be able to at leasL work that out triLh staff and I guess if they're convinced about it, we b,,ould prefer to keeP it at the 82. Other cities allow up to about a 1O? grade and I think the real concern on - this minimum street grade is Nhen, esPecially when you have a dead end slreet so like in the winter if you can't geL up the grade, at least you'd have another access point out and in this location they could always, well -it just wouldn't happen at a 72 or 82 but if thev had a 1OZ, vou could always turn around if there's ice in the road and just go back the rday you came but with a 72 slope, you won't have thaL problem. I Lhink that was pretty much it from lhe conditions on the report here. I'd like to just poinL out again that we are iust sifting almost a 4 acre additional Iand to the Citv for park. tle didn't have to do that. There's advantages to us to do that. t^le can get some more Park lots you knou around it but that area that Ne're proposing to give to the City I Lhink is going to be one of vour more heavily used areas because it's the most centrally located area of the park thaL you're 9oin9 to have in this ]ocation. We have quite a few access points to that park area and they are shotln as actual deeded property to be given and not easements which is mentioned in her-e. But I think that's pretty much it that I have. Erhart: Brian can I ask, while you're up there, can I ask you a question. The 4 acres Lhat you're referring to' Has this above the PUD develoPmenLplan? Is that acres above and beyond what the original PUD developmentplan called for? Brian olson: ft's not quite 4 acres but 3 somethi n9 . acres and what's their utility.Krauss:It's not But it's a matLer ofjust cursory. what are the Planning Commission June 6, 7990 - Page Meet i ng 2 Erhart: So it includes some of the pond and the drainage ayea? Okay. h,ildermuth: Are you planning any trai.Is connecting the north part of thepark with the south part of the park through that 1OO year flood plain? Brian Olson: That's up to the City. As part of the PUD agreement on thisproject, t.he developer's not required Lo do any of the construction of thepathways and that is up to the parks commission and the Council if they chose to have some of the trails in there. We are assuming they are andwe're going to grade the park to fulfill that need and it is up to the Cityto determine what they want in their park areas because again we've got torough grade these park areas. That r.rill be done this year so. l^lildermuth: Can you talk about that PauI or Jo Ann? On the park and rec. l^lildermutlr: No, connecling the norLh and souLh part of the park. Olsen: t^lell that's one of the things that we're, if that pond does stay Lhere,. one of the only uays that we urould allow it to remain in that area wouLd be that there would be trails or berming around the ponds so thatpeople would have access, dry access. So that's one of the options t{ecould look at. Brian Olson: As a matter of fact, we are showing a park the part of the property here. The other park access isright in this location. [.Je are assuming there are going through here but we will bring it in... access right offright in here andto be trails Erhart: Okay, we'II Set back to you if there's any other questions then when ue get into the discussion. Charles, did you uant to respond at aLlat this point to the points about the pond? Charles Folch: Sure. I guess our only concern, I did not prepare thisreport however I've reviewed it and am in pretty much agreement with it, Our onLy concern f guess is before He get to the final process here isinitially it looked ]ike at the second stage where the pond was ]ocated tothe north, that it was much larger than urhat iL is now and I guess we HouldIike to, when we get to the final stage process, at least see thecalculations that are involved to make sure that if ure do accept the soulherLy location that it is adequate for that 1OO year storm capability. So thaL's primarily what we're concerned about is just to make sure we get the calculations to lake a look at and revier.r that before final approval . As far as the street grades, I know there uras one area in specific Lhat I Brian Olson: l.lell the pond ulas always shor.ln to be in that area and that'sexactly the same area that was shown on the original park as part of thePUD. So r,Jhat we're gifting to the City is area that was never proposed to have a pond. Erhart: Okay. Does any other commissioners have any specific questions for Mr. Olson at this time? Olsen: t^thether or not there are going to be trails within the park? Planning Comm ission June 6, 7990 - Page Heet i ng 4 believe we could make adjustments to the 82 grade. I think that's someLhing we can maybe urork out. At least ule'd like to see another look take in that, the layout and see if we can make at least some adjustments if possible to the vertical grades so that's the only comments I have. If you have any questions. Erhart: Okay. t,lhich condition h,as the grades referred to in? Jo Ann, do you remember? EIIson: oh I do. It's 21 . ErharL: Okay, is there any other comment from the public? Comments from the public at this time. Batzli moved, Ellson seconded to close the public favor and the motion carried- The public hearing hearing. AII voted uas closed. Annette. Do you have some IN Erhart: AIrigh!, why don't ue sLart with questions on the proposal or comments? Ellson: can you review again for me how you're going t decks are going to be bis enough and Lhat the Problem o starting to make lhem and requiring variances. o make sure that the f the peopl.e olsen: tlhat we do right now is when we get a building Permit we look at the elevation to see if there's a patio door and if there is then tle check - to see if there's still you know depth in the back yard or side vard to be able to have that deck, Iike a 10 x 12 size. But that still isn't catching aII of Lhem. I mean uhat's happening is that by the time it gets to that stase it's almost too late so what He're trying to do is to have them show that if there is that patio door, to have them even be showing a deck on the plan. At that time to be showing so we can see Hhether or not the deck- really would fit. So the builder r.,ould have to add onto the survey the deck. So it can be shown that yeah, it will meet it. t^le're hoping that will just add one more step to it and make it a little bit easier to catch because when you get a lot si.ze 12,OOO sguare feet and they're still buildins pretly good sized homes on them, it's always looking at a var i a nce E]Lson: tle didn't run into any problems with the PubLic Safety and I just felt Iike that one road is awful long. It t{inds into a lot of different cul-de-sacs and things like that. [.,e've had prob]ems in the past where a -really long cul-de-sac isn't recommended and this is a long cul-de-sac. And I didn't get that comment like I've seen kind of consistently before. Olsen: No, you didn't set it thisif I can show the phases. This is So again you have that connection. abou t? time. tlhat's happening is, let me see Phase 1. Risht here you have Phase 2. Is this the cul-de-sac you're talking EIlson:Yeah. So that when this comes, the 3rd phase and this is developed, itolsen; Planning Commission June 5, 1990 - Page Meet i ng 5 wiII have that access out of there. It won't be a long cul-de-sac. Soit's 1, 2, 3. I think the presentation by the developer or builder makes agood point on number 9, which by the b,ay hJe have two number 9's. But Iunderstand the City's position of if it's not big enough but I think ifthat's the lowest point and everything Iike that, logic pould tell us thatwith good planning t^rould put the pond in the louest location and keep itthere so I could see subject to review by our engineering and allowing himto keep that pond urhere it is. And again, that 1? grade difference I alsocould see changing that pending another review by our engineer and I don,t know that I have the authority or even the knowledge to know !,,hat a 12difference is. I don'L think it should be done because they have to takeout a lot of dirt and they don'L know what to do r.lith it now that it's moredirt but if it's from a safety standpoint or something and it isn't anyIess safe, then I uould do it. EIlson:think it Batzli: Have we Olsen:line to Eatz I i uasn't Good poi nt . Iooks pretty Those are the only comments that I have. Otherwise Iclean. Erhart: Okay, Br ian? On condition 1, the signage stating it's a temporary cul-de-sac?ever done that before? Krauss: It's Lhe culmination of many years of banging our heads againstthe wall and getting streets connected that ulere supposed Lo but people moved in after the fact and claimed that they never knew it was supposed to be extended. we have. t^lell ne've had the barriers orit look Iike it's going to continue. paving up to the lot IS on just kind of near to my heart because I did this and thereit. Ellson: You bring it up every Lime. Yes , ma ke Thisa sign Krauss: tle acLually did it onit was at the City Council forin the conditions for Vineland Vineland Forestso long because For est . r^rhich you didn't do becauseof the road issues but iL's Olsen: And ue're startins to make it as a condition all the time. Batzli: on condition 4. tlhen you're 9oin9 to pulL tha cul-de-sac, pull itback. f mean close to the road, isn't that going to really affect the square footage of Lots 10 and 15 by doing that? Aren't they going to have Krauss: If I could add, the 72 standard is a fairly common one in many communities and iL's based on safety. tle have varied that on severaloccasions but the only time we've varied it is because we're trying to savetrees or fit in a road in a very difficult place to put iL in. That's notthe case here. This is wide open area and there's really no clear reason why we should deviate from the standard and it would take a variance to dothat. PIanning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng 6 to totally redo OIsen: t^lel.I we by doing that. whole southern end thinking, assum i ng that wer e t her e?that they'd probably lose one Lot Erhart: Yeah, I' think you'd want to respond to that- Brian Olson: tlell this is a designer on it. I think there's room to move it. This is just the preliminary plat and ue'll be looking at some modifications in there. I think I uould like to just kind of run that by staff and see how we can set that to brork out. I don't have any problem rith that. Batzli: okay. And I heard something about earlier you were talking aboutplalting and designating the park plan as an outlot and dedicating it. t,Jhat was your comment on that again? Have you already done that? Brian olson: No. That's what we uould be doing through the platting, process here. tle wouLd prefer to do it as we do each phase instead of just giving aII the parkland up front right away because when we come through with every final p]at, see we're going to have to guararrtee that 50? of these lots and things go over the 15,OOO square feet and I r*ould Prefer togive the parkland up in chunks as u,e go along here. Batzli: So the parkland that we're discussing now is the one for betNeen BIocks 5 and 6 and south? You don't want to do that right You urant to do that as these are. i nstance auJay. Brian Olson: I uuould prefer not to maybe do it right now and I can for sure guarantee it by spring of next year because that's by the time we'd be-plaLting ouL the next phase but if it's the commission's wish to do it now, we will It jusL creates more inconvenience for us as far as computing our final pl at Olsen: That was also a condition of the PUD that as the lots are developed around the parkland, that they uould be platting that parkland as a part ofthat plat and this was again, with the Park and Rec Commission, they wanled-it to be platted at this time. BatzIi: At the preliminary plat? Olsen: At this first phase. Brian Olson: f don't think I understood the whole park though. It wouldbe just that neH area? Olsen: The most northern part uJasn't reallyparkland. That was just kind of like an openprovided. going space to be used forthat was going acti veto be Batzli: On lhe first condition 9I guess I agree Nith AnnetLe and I'd wordit the applicant shall provide calculations for City Engineering approval demonstrating that the ponding areas proposed between Block 5 and 6 within _the parkland meets 1OO year siorm requirements. SomeLhing like that if Planning Commission June 5, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 7 Olsen: They had a lot of vegetation that .{e trying to preserve ulith one and that one you didn't real}y have much, you're talking 1OZ wasas low as they could go. Batz]i: tJithout bringing in hundreds of thousands of yards of filL l.li ldermuLh: Taking the top of tha mountain off. we justify not doing that here? l.that's ourhow can that abou t Batzli: Yeah- But rationale? Olsen: As Paul said, it's reallygot a lot of room to wor k r.rith to kind of a plowed field right now. He'sadjust that. EIIson: f! doesn't have vegetation like the other one does. Olsen: It can be met I guess is the reason. Brian Olson: There are spotted areas of vegetation out there and there arevegetations even in the parkland that ae're going to be dedicating, theadditional area but as far as the grading plan that we show right now, wedo have some undisturbed areas along the slopes and if we have to complywith the 7% maximum on the street grades, it's going to be totally altered.There's just no getting around it. Batzli: I guess usually when we look for variances we look for a hardshipand if in fact it is just a matter of grading some additional land andNe're not trying to save some signi.ficant features, I guess I don't see thehardship. Those are my comments tJildermuth: I agree. In the absence of a compelling reason for avariance, I think Lhe 7Z maximum grade has to be met. Do you have anyproblem Mr. Olson with number 17? tlhere the intersections meet. providing that landi ris . Brian O]son: Yeah, r.le did discuss that before the meeting I did with myengineer and 2OO feet, we felt it uas excessive. This aII gets back tothis grade now again. If you look at the overall plan, we are connectinginto the county road there on the very southern part and you'lI notice tha! i.re start to climb up the hiII and h,ith the number of street connectionsthere and if ure stick to a 2OO foot minimum distance t^rith a very shallourgrade, that just means f can't be steepening it up at aIL Again, it'srealIy going to prevent us from really having a logical development outthere as far as the grading. How it's going to be looking and things. We're going to have to knock off the whole top there - It's either that or we propose not even to have an access point out to the county road in thatIocation because with the conditions there and I uould think a good hardshi.p too is just the case of there's too much dirt. That is ahardship. That's part of the natural conditions out there in that that would be okay for our City Engineer here. I liked the part abbut thepaLio doors going in. And Lhe 72, did ue recently give a variance on NearMountain for the grades? What's the difference beth,een that and this? Planning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng a property. You know you have a number of different things you can be Iooking at. You've got ponding vegeLation and what about the earth. There's just too much earth there. And now the problem that I have with the county you know, the County's starting to renig on their agreement and we're going to have a real problem out there and it's just going to cost us thousands of dollars. I wouldn't doubt it, if ue have Lo haul it off, you know we're going to have to throw in probably another couple grand per l^ot or something and the homeowner's going to pay for it and I'm trying toprevent the homeowner from having to pay for it. Batzli: l.,e're of course not the final arbitrater ontrue hardship, then I think you really need to bring convince the City Council ^ Yeah. is that Right. that but if there is a in some evidence to Brian Olson: I'11 be glad to deal with that issue specifically with the engineering staff and the City. I could show aII that. t^lildermuth: It looks like a condition that at this point we ought to keep in. The only other thing that I would like to see is on the first number 9- I'd ]ike to see north/south trails connecting the upper and lower portion of the parks on either side of that ponding area. Not just one trail on one side Olsen: t"lithin the par k area you're saying? To a north/south trail on either side of the pond. for the developer to do? The developer to do if the pond remains as they t"t i ldermuth: olsen: And tli ldermuth: r equest . Batzli: Grade for them or .actually install them? tlildermuth: InstaII them. I guess then in summary, I Uish something to do or something that the developer could do to appearance of this development. I don't get a good feeling through it - there was enhance the urhen I dr ive Brian Olson: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. t^lildermuth: f saj.d I wish there uas sometshing that could be done to enhance the appearance of the development. I don't get a good feelingI drive through that development. I don't knou, it might be planting trees or doing some additional landscaping but at this point it doesn' appear as a very attractive development. when mor et Brian Olson: Risht now we're having a lot of problems with the streets r ight nor,r , They didn't get in Last year and. . .so u,e ulent through a brinter season here not having blacktop and with the rains this year...replacement of curbs and also we're having a problem getting the paving done. The pavement will be going in within a week and a half, Planning Commiss ion June 6, 1990 - Page t,leet i n9 9 l.Jildermuth: That will probably be a big help. That's aI] I have.Erhart: Okay, Joan do you have something for us? Ahrens: r just had one comment and r'lr address this to the developer,srepresentative. r'm sorry, Brian? Number g refers to the access points tothe park. That's going between the singLe family lots and it struck mer.rhen r was listening to the discussion about the decks and uhether or notpeople could get through the lots. That there are going to be problemswith the decks and size of the structures on the rots and r was wonderingwhat you were planning. rt says that the staff is recommending that theaccess points either be paved or a sign put up that they,re public accesspoints. l.that do you plan on doing with that? Brian Olson: I don't knon right now. I r^rould assume that ure wouldprobablv have to sign them then- r don't know the exact purpose of thishere though. tlhy that is even in there. I don't know if it's to warn. Erhart: Excuse me, I think that might be a mistype. Is it? Is there atypo there? On number 8 because I had iL circled here. It says eitherpaved and or signed. You're talking about 2 different things there r thinkaren't we? Olsen: It has to be paved and signed. Both. Ahrens: I was picturing this little sign sticking up out of the groundsaying you can ualk through here if you want if you can make it under thedeck. Olsen: Again, we just wanted to be clear that that,s public property andpubl ic access . Ahrens: So it is going to be paved and signed? Brian Olson: By the City. Ahrens: I don't think they think that. Erhart: tJeli you still have the word either in there too. It's realconfusing I think. Batzli: Take out the either then. Shall be paved and signed. Ahrens: Paul uas shaking his head no. He doesn't... Krauss: Yeah, we had the intent that it be installed by the developer runpast the houses and it's a very clear reason for it is that park development typically lags the development of homes and there are jusL innumerable examples of these things beins platted and nobody knowing thatthey're there and people feeling very possessive that their property extends to Lhe neighbor's property line and they get upset when people arewalking on what really is public property. The only way we know to hitthat head on is to require the posting of a sign and the paving of it atleast up past the property line. Planning Commission June 6, f99O - Page Heet i ng 10 Brian OLson: Okay, that was never my understanding on it. tJe are paying park dedication fees out here and we are also just gifting to the City almost a 4 acre park. It seems Like some of these conditions are up and above even the original PUD and it seems Iike I'm just kind of being taken advantage of here just because I'm a developer in the city. Ahrens: It's great that you're dedicating all that parkland but I think urhat we Nant to make sure is that people have access to it. Lots of times like what PauI said, people don't feel comfortable or people don't want them walking between their houses if there's not a clearly marked Pathwayto get there. Brian olson: That should come dedication fees. And that was agreement. Erhart: Jo Ann, Rec Commi ssion? Erian Olson: I commission ! hat sidewalks a long of the par k f unds. l.Je are understanding of the whole out the paying par k PUO was number 8, !,as that a recommendation of the Park and tlas that something we added? Olsen: It was one tha! we added. misht add it uras also the understanding at the parks we are not building any trails in here. l.,le are buildingthe development but no Lrails in the development. Ahrens: l.le've required that before for other developers haven't you? Access to the parks through paved trails along side people? OIsen: t,lhat was that? Ahrens: You 've deve l opme nts? reguired lhat type of pathway before haven't you in Olsen: In the parks itself? Ahrens: I n the par ks . Olsen: Yeah, we've never required them to be paved. This is you know again we've had problems with that and now we're learning from our mistakes before so we do h,ant that to be definite. If you want we can have the, I can discuss it with Lhe Park department and the park Commission to see ifthey do want to just use the trail fees for that, For the paving of the access points. As far as the trail within the park, I think what bre'rereferring to is around that ponding area because that ponding area is going to be cutLing off access and ue h,ant that to be preserved so I do thinkthat that is above and beyond just your basic trail within a park. Thatthat is the developer's responsibility. Brian O]son: Again, that's contradicting the Parks Commission. We had avery deLailed discussion about this and that ponding area is no! going tobe in the trails. [.,1e're a]so talking even a 1OO year f lood elevation orthat the trai.I, we're not even going to have that in the 1OO year flood, Planning Commiss ion June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 11 none of the trails and even if it was, it might be one day in a 1OO yearsso r.re u,orkbd it out urith the Parks Commission that ule are going to go inand grade those areas and ensure tha! those trail.s will not be in there.But there was never anything about building Lhe trails so now suddenlythese conditions are coming on even after the parks commission so. Erhart: Anything else Joan? Okay. Item number 1 where you state that theturn around urill meet City standards. Does that mean that they,re actualLygoing to put like a 5O foot diameter cul-de-sac, asphalted? Is it 42? Isthat the standard now with curb? Okay. So what's the reason for thebarricade? So they don't drive over the curb? Olsen: Or to put the sign on. Krauss: Just to noti fyIt's a temporary one. people that that is not a permanent cul-de-sac. Erhart: Okay, the rest of thegoing to be curbed. Okay, sobe noLhing to keep people frompurpose for the barr icade? street's curbed and so the cuI-de-sac'sit tron't have a curb or a ditch so therejust driving right on through so that's notwiII the Char I es Folch: That's correct. Erhart: And when do you plan, someonenext property to the uest is somebody. else owns Lhat property Argus doesn't own that in any right? The do they? Brian Olson: No. tlhat we have hererequired to show a street going out sense to do it. just. . .on the proposal and we werethe west property... It just makes that }JA S is to Erhartr t^lhat's more costly? Putting a curb in that cul-de-sac now or the bar r icade? Brian Olson: You mean a curb around the cul-de-sac? Brian Olsonr Putting that in. Erhart: Okay. Number 2 for the record, ue actually had a builderbuilt houses in the city Nhere they put a sliding glass door which intended for a deck and then the deck couldn't be built within the bui.Idable area? Nho was the builder? Krauss: More than one. one? tlho uere the builders? a Iot up in. Chan Vista and some can pretty much pick and choose Erhart: More than Olsen: tleI I ure mean j.t's been, happened. had you Hidden VaIley. Isubdivision it's Erhart: Yeah. Planning Commission June 6, t99O - Page Meet i ng 72 Krauss: PUD subdivisions -Olsen: t^Jith the smaller Iots. Erhart: Is it an interpretation and couldn't' meet the buildable somebody wanted toor they didn't even put a have 16 foot dec k B feet? th4t area 10Krauss: There wasn't room for a foot deck. Olsen: And in some even 8, 6. I mean some could only get the litfle. Erhart: Boy that's kind of incredible so I encourage you to come up hlith any way that we can prevenL that. I think that's pretty nuts- Regardingthe pond, I pretty much agree I thi.nk with Annette and I think Brian expressed it. There's some technical things here that I don't think we have the draurings and the details to really make a strong recommendation and so I'd like to see the thing be recommended thaL engineering urork withthe developer on this thing but just for my comments, I'd almost like to see if the pond isn't in the north, it's probabLy just fine where it is but maybe it should be moved to one side or the other. tlhat I'm concernedabout if the Hater does go up, what you're going to do is force peopl.e toconstant).y be walking next to somebody's back yard urhere in fact it mayuork out a little bit better if you look at it, to move it to one side orthe other and encourage people to stay in the middle in the park. Or makeit longer and whatever so I don't, without more deLails I don't think wecan get into that detailed discussion. So whoever makes the proposal maywant to look at that condition. The 8Z grade, somewhat I think the samething. I'm a little curious, how much time have you talked about thesegrades prior to this meeting? Brian Olson: There has been very little conversations with staff. It'sjust a matter of us getting Lhe report and having the time to respond. Erhart: Right. So my sense is that there's some flexibility to work with - engineering. I mean I can see on one token tahere you,re coming off thisthe collector. tJe cerlainly want that access point and you're limited touhat you can do. The hill exists and it's a Iong hill. On the other hand, -your comment about having to take down hills to meet Lhe 7Z which youdidn't include the fact that you can also fiII in areas you know to bringLhe road, slope down to a 72. So again, I don't know how we norded thecondition Lo give us a little biL of flexibility but I,d like to see uswork with engineering on it again. Item number 8, my feeling of that is.CondiLion number 8 where ue're requiring them to pave the access points. _Hy sense is that it's a great idea but I think we've delved into, myinterpretation of it says it will be delved into starting to develop thepark. I Lhink tle may be imparting too many requirements on a devel^operthere. I propose that that one be removed and the reason is, once youstart with paving that I mean where do you stop? Hhy don't we have themput in the trails and so forth. My feeling uas that at the park meeting u,ras that thev were asked and they agreed to do the initiaL grading but that-the actual improvements b,ere to be done by the City. Olsen: Again this brasn't really considered, we weren't looking at it asstarting to develop trails. It,s more to... Erhart: I think you've identified it definitely asdon't feel that the developer is the guy urho should Olsen: So hou urould you Erhart: tlelI to me it's, do it? Just signage? the park has to do that. To that's the park.me and my a problem and I have to pay for just that. EIlson: tlelL if they're sayi.ng thenever kneul there was supposed to be even put a fence up and stuff. people who buy it an access through said well I and maybe t hey thing Brian Olson: They know. Krauss: No they don 't . Ellson: No, t.re've had the history and it's showing that they don't andthat they 've been misrepresented. Erhart: Or si gns . EIlson: Like on their thin9, it's Iike... Brian Olson: They have to get a certificate of survey that goes in for abuildins permit so both people are very involved in that as far as locatingtheir house and things. [^le're just going to put it right on here the parkaccess...risht on there so they wilI know. Ahrens: And they'1I say I didn't know what that meant. Erhart: Somebody ought to sign iL and uhoever makes the motion can, I'lljust give you my opinion of that one. Is there any more discussion on thatparticular item? Okay. Overall, f guess I like the development and thereason is, I've got 75 employees very feu of which could afford a home in Chanhassen and therefore they don't live in our city. Ellson: You don't pay them enough, is that it? Erhart: That's probably part of the problem. But in reality is it's acompetitive world and I would like to, I think this developer has done.abenefit for the City in attempting to do a good job of providing someeconomical singl.e family homes. So Nith that is there any otherdiscussion? Batzli: I move that the Planning Commission recommends approval of Lake Susan HiIIs t,est PUO 4th Addition for 159 single family lots as shown onthe plans dated May 10, 1990 with the followins conditions 1thru.22 andf'd recommend that ue make the second number 9 number 23. And I wouldreword the first number 9 as follouls. The applicant shall providecalculations for City Engineering approval to demonstrate that the ponding area proposed betNeen Block 5 and 6 wj.thin the parkland meets 1oO year storm requirements and that there's adequate room for access between thenorth and south park areas Planning Commission Heet i ng June 6, 7990 - Page 13 Planning Cohmission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng !4 Ellson: I'Il second. Erhart: Annette, do you agree? EI lson: I agr ee . tJhat about a trail between the north and south portion of lheNildermuth: par k? Batzli: NeII what I proposed uras just that they have to demonstrate that there's room for the trail to be put in so there's access between the north and south areas. I personally don't think that's up to them to put that trail in there. I think that's part of the developmenL of the park. Like he said, I mean that's going to be in the 1OO year storm area if he canprove his calculations are right Lo City engineering. Erhart: okay, it's been motioned and seconded that we recommend the approval with some word changes to 8 and some additional substantive changes to 9. Is there any other discussion? Are you clear urhat the motion is Jo Ann? Er hart: Yeah , Mr . Ol.son? Batzli: My feeling is that uJe u,eren'L given lhe information to determinethat Lhere's a hardship tonight and that r.Jhat you need to do urith work with engineering in the meantime because I'd really like to see the access tothe county road and I agree that f think that that's probably requires some sort of variance if in fact you can't make that 72. But as to Lhe other ones, f really think you have to work with the City engineering so that you- can demonstrate to the Council if in fact you need something over- 72- Brian Olson: Okay. Batzli moved, Ellson seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Lake Susan Hills l.lest PUD 4th Addition for 159 sinsle family lots as shown on the plans dated Hay 10, 1990 rith the followins conditions: All streets that are proposed for future connection shall be provided uith a turnaround which meets city standards with a barricade and signage stating that it is a temporary cul*de-sac and uill be a future road connect i6n - r Batzli: oh, on number 8I would also remove the uords 'either' and 'or' from thaL particular one. So it trould read aII the access points to theparkland belween single family lots sha]I be paved and signed that they arepublic access points. Olsen: yep . Brian O]son: So there is no proposed to 21? Planni n9 Commission June 6, 1990 - Page treet i ng 15 2 The applicant shaLl provide one tree per lot and additional landscapingalong the entrances and boulevards as part of the pUD approval and the-developer shal.I provide !S150.OO per Iot for landscaping. J 4 9 L2. 10. 11. The applicant shall provide a plan illustrating Iarge areasvegetation located on the site. Areas of mature vegetationimpacted by streets or building pads shalI be preserved uithremoval plans required as part of the building permits. of mature not tr ee 6 The applicant shall pull back the cul-de-sac servicing LoLs 11-13,Block 4 to remove the building pads from the ravine areas. The applicant shall provide a registered engineer's report on soils,footings and structural design and a registered engineer's grading anddrainage plan for the CiLy Engineer and Building Oepartment approvalprior to issuance of a building permit on Lots 11 and 13, Block 4. An amended preliminary plat maintaining u,ith at least SOZ of the lotswith 15,OOO square feet or more shall be provided. Designate the par kland asthe first phase.an outlot which urill be platted as part of AII of the access points to the parkland between single family lotsshall be paved and signed that they are public access points. The applicant shall provide calculations for City Engineering approvalto demonstrate that the ponding area proposed beth,een Block 5 and 6within the parkl.and meets 1OO year storm requirements and that there,sadequate room for access between the north and south park areas. Park Access: The approved PUD plan provided access off of both loopedsLreets. Such continues to be required and should be shown as parklanddedication, not simpLy easements. Tr a i I s,zS i dewa I ks : The developer shall be required to provide trails/sidewal ks as fol I ows : a Five foot wide concrete sidewalks shalI be constructed along thrustreets as shown on the attached plan. Sidewalks shalI becompleted at the time street improvements are constructed. A 20 foot wide trail easement along the uest side of powers Boulevard shaIl. be dedicated for future trail purposes. 7 b c The above trai ls,zsidewal ks requirements and therefore The applicant. r^rilI be required to pay There wil.I be no trail fee required. satisfy the City's trail dedication no trail fee shall be charged. 5OZ of park dedication fees. 13. All building permits uith paLio doors as part of the building plans Planning Commission June 6, 7990 - Page Heet i ng 76 shall provide a survey showing that a deck can be installed b,ithout a variance to Lhe setback. 74- The applicant sha]I enter into a development contract with the City andprovide the necessary financial securities to guarantee comPletion of the improvements. 16. The applicant shalI obtain and comply DNR, Watershed District and Office of urith all permits required by the Lhe Carver county Engineer. The applicant's engineer shall provide the City Engineer uith calculaLions verifying the storm sewer, uatermain and sanitary sewer pipe sizing. After grading, alI disturbed areas shall immediately be seeded and mulched to prevent erosion. AII slopes greater than 3 to l will need to be stabilized with wood fiber blankets or equivalent. -tE - Type II erosion control shall be added along the proposed silt adjacent to sediment basin and ravine areas. TENCE AII street and utility improvements shall conform to the City's standards for urban construction. Construction plans and specifications shall be submitted to the City Engineer for revieur and appr ova I . Park Grading: The developer, at i.t's sole cost, shall grade the park area.s in accordance with a timetable and plans to be furnished by theCity. The City will develop park plans uhen the final park boundaries have been determined. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. SITE PLAN REVIET.I FOR A 17,5OO SAUARE FOOT ADDITION TO THE EXISTING BUILDING ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP AND LOCATED AT 7A7O PARK DRIVE, INDUSTRIAL INFORIIATION CONTROLS. The applicant pulled this item off the agenda. Paul Krauss stated that it was tentatively rescheduled for JuIy 18, 1990 pending the applicant'sactions. APPROVAL OF HINUTES: Ahrens moved, tlildermuth seconded to approve the l.'linutes of Lhe Planning Commission meeting daLed May 15, 1990 as presented. - 17. At intersections where the street grades exceed 32' a landing zone with a street grade of 32 or less for a minimum distance of 2OO feet shall be used. 20. 27. The applicant shall reduce street grades to comply wiLh City ordinance throughout the development (maximun 72). 22- Prior to assigning street names, the applicant shall consult withPubIic Safety for recommendations. Planning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng r7 except Tim Erhart who abstained DISCUSSION - NORTH SIDE OF HT.IY. ALI voted in favor COHPREHENSIVE PLAN and the motion carr ied . 5 I.JILL BE DISCUSSED. Nam e Addr Bryan Pike Roy Swander H -J. and Joanne CochraneAI K 1i nge t hutz Jim Curry 14 ic hae I & Colleen xlingelhutz [,larren PhiIIips 7411 Minne(ashta Par kway 1528 Par k Road 1751 Sunridge Court 8600 Great PIains Bl.vd.It817 Upper Terrace, Edina, HN 55435 8601 Great PIains BIvd. 1571 Lake Lucy Road 7235 HazeILi ne Blvd. 72OS HazeLLi ne Blvd . 7105 Hazeltine Blvd. 890 Saddlebrook Pass 195O Crestview Circle 673O GaIpin Blvd. Hinnesota Landscape Arboretum 25OO Arboretum Blvd. T i mber wood 7280 GaIpin BIvd. 6850 Utica Lane 1695 Stellar CourtLarkin, Hoffman Representing MiLls FleetVice President, MiIls FIeet Farm 1511 Lake Lucy Road Dave & Karen l.Jeathers Donald 0. Boy PauI Youngqui st Steve K i ndorr l^Jay ne Poppe Ed RyanPeler Ol i n Chuck Gabrielson Bi 11 Miller Theres: Bentz Jar,et LashEric Rivkirr Tim Keene Tom Green Bob & Ethelyn Chr istensenAI Ha r vey TeC Coey Na;rcy T ichyBrett Davidson Joe I.1o r i n Marv & Judy Janic Har k l.lalinowski Farm 1430 1341 L47L 729r 6570 La ke 702t 7250 Lake Lucy Road Lake Lucy Road Lake Lucy Road Galpin Blvd. Kirkwood C ir cle Lucy Road GaLpin Hinneurashta Par kway Chuck Gabrielson, 2600 Arboretum BIvd.: I see a new Line onneu from the Iast time I was mailed a map. It cuts throughthird of the property that I manage out on TH 5. It,s rightline u:hich I'm assuming the dotted line looks like TH 5 andif someone can please tell what that is and bJhy it's cuttingscuthern third of my property. PauI Krauss and Hark Koegler presented an overview of the Land Use on Comprehensive PIan as it relales to the north side of Hr.ly. 5 to the public.Vice Chairman Erhart opened the meeting up for public comment. ere that's sou Lher n ove a dotted wo nder i ng through the Krauss: Hr. Gabrielson was mailed a very early version of the map. As yourecall we had a large number of people here at a meeting I believe inFebruary and we mailed a map that was current at Lhat point in time.Hopefully we were clear on the map that it's subject to some change. Nor,r th the ab I'm Planning Commission Meet i ng June 6, 1990 Page 18 Chuck the change that you're noting is since then we've been working on the collector road system or the future road system that uould be used to serve-properties if and when they develop. The City's always anticipated, a! Ieast to the east of your area, having a frontage road along the north side of TH 5. The solid Line that goes through your area wouLd be al extension -of that road that would be built at such time development made it necessary. Of course that entire area's in that study area so that's in essence delaying any decision for that period of time. Erhartr Does that clearly ansu,er your question Chuck? Chuck Gabrielson: Very politically. yeah- Erhar!: Do you harre another question? Chuck Gabrielson: I'1I think about it. Erl-,art: Are there any other questions relating to the downtown? I shouldn't say, this isn'! downtown but the concepL of the centralized dourntown. The high density ayea next to the park. Hedium density west of that. The study area. Any questions relating to that 6t alI? Peter olin: Hy narne is Peter Olin. I'm Director of the Arboreturn and thefirst time I saw this map was r^rhen I came doun to see Paul a few weeks ago and I guess I'm a biL discouraged at the planning effort in that one of the major land holders in this town, we had no concept really of what was going- on. I do have some concerns in terms of planning. My background is as a Iandscape architect and planner and f have worked at that position in vermount and Massachussets and Connecticut as well as taush! it here in l.'linnesoLa. Fj.rst of aII my concern is that the planning effort does not seein to have a very creative approach and it seems to me that the town shouLd consider how the development along TH 5 trhich looks to me like a -continuous strip development. I know that's not quite true but it does seem to have that effect, is going to affect the character of the entiretourn. I know there's development that's headed this uay but one does not have to accepL everything that's being proposed and everything that's coming down the ]ine and I point out that your projections for numbers ofpeople in 2OOO and 2O1O use up x amount of acres. tlhat do you do wiLh Lheprojeclion in 2O2O when the acres are all gone? See there is a point where -you can say weII there will be no more acres so you can say right nowthere's a point uhere we don't have to accept all that development or we donot have to accept it in the traditional manner. I had pointed out andPaul is familiar with some of the developments of tloodlands, Texas. tJhat's - happened to Davis, California. Even over here in Eagan, Minnesota wherethere is a different type of approach to this type of development. Sothere are some alternative scenarios and I r.rould like to point out thatcluster housing can be encouraged in many areas. Clustering and you've done tlrat wiLh your commercial and I find it very appropriate although I see the little neighborhood commercial down there. As I recall, that piece- of property, it's a large hole in the ground. Does that mean you're going to fill it? It doesn't seem !o be, am f in the wrong spot? It's the one down on TH 5. Isn't that a large depression? That is a totallyinappropriate place to put a commercial development- I don't see a response here to the landform, Response to the character of the town andit makes me very concerned {"lhen I see those kinds of things going up asproposed plans for the future of the tourn of Chanhassen, I see vari.ous open spaces and I see a couple of nice connectors but most of them aren't connected by anything and usua]}y in today's day and age, open spaceplanning is the key parC of any planning and they are connecLed. It's par! of that whole pedestr i a n/bi cycl.e system. One that Davis, California for instance has developed to a very nice degree and there are some very good reasons for doing that. Energy conservation being one and maintenance ofthe environment that you have. IL's a very nice open space environmenthere. You can cut me off when my 5 minutes are up but I think there are many good reasons to rethink this and that the town really should make thatkind of consideration. I think the fact tha! the Iifestyles of the people in this town accustomed to the kinds of open space and the spaciousnessthat exists here now of which the Arboretum is a part, are important !o maintain and they can be and allor"r developmenL to happen. In other parts of the country this has been tackled and tackled rather nicely I think. The fact that the Arboretum may be one of the few green spots along TH 5 as development marches out through Eden Prairie, Chanhassen to Victoria whichis eagerly looking at massive development along TH 5 as weII, makes me alittle worried, especially when developers want to come and buy hunks ofthe Arboreium as well. The question I have is what is the undeveloped areathat is just north of lhe University property? It's just a big blank spacethat says undeveloped. Krauss: That is area that would be located outside the HUSA expansion andis fundamentally undeveloped. It's not anticipated to be brought in for anything. It's got I believe 1or 2 homes on it. It uilL not be provided r.r i th services under this plan. Pe'.er OI i n: But the rest of the Krauss: !oday. No! b,est of TH 41 , no. area T hat Peter olin: I guess it makes me rather nervous to large chunk of land could be very easily developed boundary there. wiII? is all, it will remain as it is see undeveloped as ajust to the north of our Krauss: It could be developed at some point we'd have to 9o through an exercise that ue' HUSA line to do it. in re the future doing r ighL I suppose but now to move the Peter olin: It's not a 10 acre is that correcL? Erhart: Yeah, outside that MUSA line there's no so it'd be limited to developmenL to t household MUSA area. plan for seNer !o serviceper 10 acres outside the geter olin: AnyNay I guess I'd just like to say u,e are definitely concerned. I don't always get to things that come Lo the University. Sometimes I set them after the hearings are over. PauI has said he r^rill forward them to me. It's sort of like when you send the announcement to the Planning Commission Meet i ng June 6, 1990 - Page 19 Planning Commiss ion June 6, t99O - Page Meet i n9 ?o Erhart: Okay thanks Mr. OIin. I have a couple things. In responseyour strip development. I don't think that's uhat tre're, I think ureto avoid that. Haybe Paul or l,lark would like to respond to that. Ahrens: Paul, maybe you couldthere and what's residential . to tr ied Krauss: t^lell as I recall, I think very early on the Planning Commissiontried to avoid, as I recaLl you referring it to whatever happened in Eden Prairie where it was uall to r.lall tip up Fab-Con buildings. The north_side of TH 5 L,as generally established to be a residential environmentbringing residential down to the hishL,ay. The south side of TH 5 has avery significant area of residential around Timberwood where Lhat's broughtacross the highway to break up thaL visage of r.rall to wall intensedevelopment. One of the things we're looking at again on the south side isa schccL site that has a lot of open space. It's a 40 acre site, if thathappens to come to pass, so arguably there was a signifioant attempt toavoid that situation. Peter Olin: I guess one has the feeling when you drive down the highwayLhat it's primarily commercia I /i ndustr ia I development. Erhart: Yeah except what we've got though on the plan is not to have thatbeyond maybe HcGIynn Bakery lot. Peler OLin: It goes all the u,ay up to the Arboretum pr oper ty . industrial alongpoint out again urhat's Krauss: tJeII on the norlh side there isn't, it's alI residential . Thesedifferent col.ors here are just different intensities of residential. tJhatvou're looking at, unfortunately we'd have to 9o back to this smaller map,is lhe purple. Is the office,zindusLrial area. Here,s where thatsignificant break occurs and brings the residential development across.The potential school site is Iocated where that asterick is. rf that comesto pass, iL will be mostly open space. The reason there's officeindustria! noted at rH 41 and TH 5 which parallels development and the cityline that's in Chaska. University would be Iike sending an announcement to Governor Perpich. IfiL's someLhing concerning the State, it's a huge operation and u,e don'talways get the information back so I really would appreciate it and I thinkPauI asreed to do that. Peler orin: Again, as you see if you start at your border of Eden prairie,a vou go through industrial office into commercial into industr'ial office onone side arl the way down and commercial on the other side and back over toindustrial office so the image of course is that it's a whore developmentof commercial or industrial. and that is the image that's there and itcontinues that image. I guess there are uays to handle that too andcertainly some of the developments, the Rosemount. Nicely done. I -certainly can't complain about that but I do get very nervous when I,veheard of some of the proposals doun next to the corner of our land whichscare the hell out of me- Planning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng 27 you have any suggestions TH 41 where there's some Ahrens r DoPrai.rie and maybe for that corridor between Edenindustrial and commercia I? Peter Olin:cuff.tlell it's very difficult to make a suggestion sort of off the Ahrens: I don't mean specific. f mean would you ]i.ke to see houses thereor uhat? Instead of indusLrial, what visual .-. Peter Olin: f don't know. I think when I talked with paul and you lookedat some of the alternatives that are the scary ones that may be somethinglike a Rosemount might be very nice in there as an alternative. However, fsee nothing on here that Iooks at some of the opportunities that you have nor.r for errcouraging farmland to stay, There are uays of doing that, Theycan be encouraged and incorporated into plans. There,s uays of handlingthat in terms of zoning and planning and inducements for those sorts ofthings but vou have to look at the whore thing together. r certainly urouldnot make a recommendation as to I'd like to see an XyZ right on that cornerbeca,rse it's part of that urhole plan which extends into Eden prairie andthen down into Victoria. And you knou,, to say well I'd like to see so andso ccr,rFany build there is a little absurd. I mean really you have to Iook6t the whole thing and how those community, the open space and housing and s.tr o-r tie logether and in terms of some of the new things that should beconsidered in planni.ng. Erhart: Give us an example maybe. P€t.er Ol.in: But one of the common ways of starting a plan for a lown is !oIook at the soils which I'm sure has been done because that's usually themost important one. The topography and what's appropriate for certainkinds of development. The existing open spaces. Good agricultural Iand aswelI as woodland and how those might tie together. Your stream corridors and undeveloped areas are one of the best and I notice in one of the louerhalves here it looks like you followed a stream corridor. That;s anexcellent way of doing it. It may be the drainageways rather than the sLream corridor but there are ways of looking aL LhaL and they can beincorporated before the development goes in. I realize it's not alwayspossible and as I say I've not studied it in any detail and I would not make any recommendations off the cuff on it. Erharr-: Okay, I think we've got a sense for r.rhat you're saying. I thinkyeah we have tried to take, at least r.lith Bluff Creek !,e've identifiedthat. Peter OIin: I noticed that. That's a perfect example of how to do thatsort of Lhing. Erhart: Your comment about open space connections. Hor^, would you envisiontha! north of TH 5? The comment caught me. t^lhat are t^le talking about? Peter Olin: Again, I have not done any study on it and it's just presump:uous of me to go up and say t^rhy don'L you do this and that. Planning Commiss ion June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 22 Koegler: Mr. Chairman, in response to that as weII, when you take aportion of a comprehensive plan and you focus on it as we're doing here this evening, you're to a certain degree taking it out of context. There is a recreation element of the plan which conlains a trail element r^rhich basically overlays over the top of this r.rhich I think if ue had that over thaL right now, that you would see that some of the objectives that Hr. Olin is talking about is what the PIan seeks to attain. It does identify trail corridors that are for more nature trails which are foot traf f ic type situations. Bluff Creek being your Prime examPle. MaL ks about trails along some of the major transportation arLeries and so forLh, more geared to the movement of pedestrians, bicycles and so forth so that elernent has no+- been ignored as parL of this plan. It simPly isn't in Part-of the trresenLation materials tonj.ght and it will be when aII this is put '.ogether for some of the subsequent public meetings and hearings. Erhert: Thanks l',1r - olin. t^,e appreciate your input there. Again, I uiant to encourage people !o express their comments here. This is not iust to ansu,er questions. tle Hant input as we try to Progress through the summer. A Lot of summer evenings urorking on this Plan so Please come uP uith your comments so h,e can incorporate them into our thinking. Bill lliller: Hy name is BiII Miller. I live in Timberwood which is but I'm still interested in the north side of TH 5. Just had somequesLions. I'd like to know how the planning process urent through on certain aspects. For example, the sma]I red commercial sPot on the northeast corner of Galpin and TH 5. It looks pretty small. I was wondering do you have some kind of idea of what you think's going tothere? Is that a gas sLation? A speedy mart? A florist shop or is some kind of idea of what you think there's needed at that corner on smal I p i ece? south be there such a Krauss: tielI yeah. Intent.ionally it's smalI. It's viewed as a nei:l-,borhood commercial center. Ulhatever would go in there is up to whoever puts i! in but it's a servi.ce type oriented thing tha!'s not neceesariLy, that's more convenient out there lhan found in downtown. Bill MiIIer: So the idea is that this is some kind of convenience for thepeople that live around there? Alright. Is that some kind of acceptedidea that people want that there and that it's needed or is there so many square feet or so many miles auray? Is there some standard through process or is it just you thought gee there's a lot of houses there and people need this? Krauss: I don't knour that there's a magic criteria that you look into your crysLal ball and say ah, there's a neighborhood commercial center. tJhatyou do is you look for hish traffic nodes. You look for an area that'sphysically separated from the residential area by natural features and that one is. You look to provide a reasonable amount of services for thepopulation you expect and that uas an attempt to do that. Bi 1l Miller: And then which I think you saidorange? Okay and then to that also north of TH 5 there's the orange medium density residential. Is Lhat right? Theto that proceeding east there's some brown and - next tAlaS next Planning Commission June 6, l99O - Page l.1eet i ng ?3 that was high density residential? Krauss: Higher density next to Bill Miller: Okay, next t.o theof the feeder street that's put of it or what? the. park, park. Did in there thoseor is border TH 5 that just on on both sidesthe north side Krauss: The frontage street would beIt would just be located on the north a line as close to TH 5 as possible. side of that. Krauss: Right of Hay, yes. Kraussr There's a very gocd, well there's a number of reasons wl'rether you accepl them or noL. The reasons are is that the higher density was attei'"pted !o be placed closer to the downtoun where services are available. tlhere there's a large park available- tlhere's ready access to a highwaywithout having to transit through a single family neighborhood. There r,;asaii aitenrpt to get a mix of housing in the community for peopLe uho aredifferent ages. Different economic Ievels. Different employmentopportunities and what not. tle have very little medium and high density housi.ng in the city at this point. Most of the brown areas that you seeincluding those east of the park are already designated high density on theexisting comprehensive plan or are zoned accordingly. The only new one isthe cne immediately west of the park. Bil.l Miller: Okay, if that h,ere to come to pass, are there city standardsor is there some kind of set of rules for example u,hat tha! ground couldbe? I mean is there some number of stories? Could it be a 20 storyhighrise appartment or does it have to be 3 stories or 5 stories? Is Lhere any limit or are there rules? Krauss: Yeah, i! wouldIt would either be R-12 us. Jo Ann can look it subject to L imitations R-16 and we don't havebut we think it's a 40 of the zoning ordi nance . the ordinance in front offoot heisht Iimitation. be or uP BilL MiIIer.: 40 foot? And how about theIs that the same? orange part? The medium density. Krauss: l.lell that you're Iooking at tounhouses. They're generally 2 stcir i es high. Bill Miller: okay and just one other question. bend around that 1995 study area around the north TH 5 right so the area belou the 1995 study area The I'IUSAside ofis going request seems to TH 5 and go downto be included in Bill Hiller: A]ri€,ht so inbeth,een Th 5 and the frontage street would be undeveloped do you think? Like a berm or something Iike Lhat? Bill Miller: Okay, so it would look grassy or something? Is there somethought process that goes in as to why the medium and high density islocated close to downtown or the park or the highuray versus just continuingthe yeI lour dor,ln? Planning Commission June 5, 1990 - Page HeeL i ng 24 the HUSA is that right? Krauss: Correct , BilI HiIIer: okay. Nhy did we bend it around like that right there to have that be a 1995 study area? It seems like a sort of gerrymandering andpolitics- You knou sort of aII of a sudden we're sguirking around. fs there some particular reason why that piece of land versus let's say the land below or above was excluded or something like that? Krauss: t^lell there's a few reasons for thaL. The area north of TH 5 Lhat was included has historicaLly. been the area that the City said uras going to develop next. In our 1980 plan it was shown originally as I believe in 1990 tiUSA line expansion. Hetro Council made us change that to the year 2ooc. That green jissly Iine going through there is the Lake Ann Interceptor that the City has spent a considerable sum of money to get put iri the groirnd in anticipation of that beins the nexL area to develop. The 1995 study area u,as eslablished because it was believed that there was sufficient area set aside to accommodate development for the next 5 to 10 yea:' period. There was also a concern that commercial development not be eJ to occur on TH 5 prematurely or if aL aII. There was a decisionthat would be heLd in obeyence by designating it as a study area so the City would not be entertaining proposals. On the south side 's a lot of pressure, well Chaska's developed industrial up to the .Iine. Chaska's also annexed parts of Chanhassen because we did not services available and developed them industrially for their or.rn benefit. There bras a concern that if that development uJere to occur, that it occur inside chanhassen. It seemed to be a reasonable place for i.t 9ogiven it's surroundings and ure concluded Lhat it was serviceable by the sewer system. BilL ililler: Okeydoke. And I guess as far as what little I have to offeril the *ay of new ideas, I guess jusL my personal preference uou!.d be, I'drather see the orange, brown and red spots along north of TH 5. Personally-I'd rat-her see that yellow all lhe way down to the road as an atternative unless there's some significant reason why that's absoluteLy notacceptable. Just my preference and there might be some others that have a -similar preference. Thanks very much. Erhart: Thanks Mr. Miller. Anyone else? Theresa Bentz: Theresa Bentz and I live on Galpin Blvd., 7280. tlhere the HUSA Iine goes through, is this going to be paid by the property owners or nho pays for the frontage when they dig it up and put the MUSA line in? t,ho pays for thaL? Krauss: The MUSA line is an imaginary line on a piece of paper. Itdoesn't cost anybody anythi ng Theresa Bentz: tlel I there? I thought you jus! said it had to be put sewer through_ a I 1or.: t hat that there city have Krauss: No , the and it ras built sewer that r^ras installed was ain I believe 1988 and 1989 and Metropolitan I nter ceptorit comes through here. Planning Comm ission June 6, 7990 - Page Meet i ng 25 That's in the ground noh, as a useable facility. It'sthat the City's paid for and we can't use - t"le can,tIine's expanded -Erhart: Haybe a better explanation is uhat the linethe inside of that line, you as a landowner have theyourself to bring that seNer into your property. Theany of it. Is that clear? a use regional faci l ityit until the HUSA says. If you're onoption Lo take forCity doesn't pay for Erhart: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Janet Lash: l'1y name is Janet Lash. I live ye lloi,r area that you said is designated Iowdefi nition of lou density? at 5a5O Utica Lane. Thatdensity. Hhat is the KrauSS:Low density by our standards, what's the density range? 1.2 t-o 4- Krauss: 1.2 to 4 units per acre but typically what it's meant Char,hassen is development with RSF which is 15,OOO square footIarger depending on the choice of Lhe individual . inIots and Janet Lash: The individual developer? Krauss: Developer . Erhar+.: Maybe Pau)., you talked !o the School Board. Krauss: First of alI the School Board hasn't committed to doing anything bu+, lhey believe they have a need for a middle school in the next 4 to 5years. [nJe went over there with some City Council representation and the Theresa Bentz: Yeah. Janet Lash: I guess I would just like to see some consideration made.Living fairly close to Lake Ann right noul , I think that that's such aunique asset lhat our city has and it's something I'd Iike to see preserved as nrucl-r as possible and I guess I have a fear that you know development isgoing to L:e going in on lhe west side that could possibly be 15,OOO squarefoot lots and putting, I know a big chunk of it is uhere Prince so who k;rows whaL's going to happen there but the rest of it, I think the impactof the lake environmentally. The runoff, all those kinds of things are a concern to me plus just the aesthetics of having a whole bunch of homesaround such a beautiful area that is so natural right now - you can gothere and you fee.I Iike you're up in northern Hinnesota. you just don'tsee any houses and I think iL's something r.re should think seriously abouLtrying !o preserve as far as some type of green space and I don't know howthat can be accomplished unless it' uere to be zoned with larger lots or. fjust think I'd like to see you look at some different options and I don'! know what all that you have available to you.. And my s.econd question is, Isee you have the one asterick area for a possible school site and I'mwondering if there are other alternatives to that? If you've looked aLother sites or if that's the only one that's in your mind now. PIanning Commission June 6, 7990 - Page Hee! i ng 26 staff to discuss just off the cuff what their needs might be and where t.heycculd locate. They told us they had a need for about 40 acres which is forballfields. It's a middle school . It doesn't have lighted fields or anything but they need 40 acres for their activities. tle looked at 3sites. The one with the asterick being one. The south part of the Eckankarproperty being another and the south of Lake Ann on the north side of TH 5 -being another option. The Eckankar property had some problems withproximity to downtourn. You don'L necessarily want. the kids that close to busy streets and bei.ng able to walk off campus and tha! kind of thing. There's also problems in terms of Iand mass on the Eckankar site. It's got- that large drop off in the ponding area and it didn't really seem to accommodate a school . A school probably could have gone on the west side of Lake Ann Park. That is a possibility. The School Board seemed to Iike -the access better at the site that we're showing you in terms of running school buses either south into Chaska or west into Victoria. There was aL:o a feeling that it met the city's needs a little bit better in terms of- an abil.ity to puII a large open space residenlial type use across TH 5 and i-'eLp bridge thaL gap and avoid that industrial image corridor Lhat the trlanni.rrg Commission didn't want to have happen. ianet Lash: Okay. And then my last question. That sort of olive green strip that gces from Lake Ann over to CR 17. Krauss: That's the Eck Church itself. .larret L6sh: Oh it is? Okay . And Eckankar property too Lhat's zoned so what's all the yellor^r? That's residential? Krauss: Yes it is. ian€t Lash: Okay. And there's no plans for anything? Krauss : No . Not. that r.le 've heard . Jer,et Lash: okay. Anyraay, my biggest concern is lhe development on the wes! s.ide of the lake. Erhart: Yeah. Krauss: CouLd we also address that a little bit. Maybe t'1ark could expand on that but there's a green corridor shown around the uest side of the lake and it's for an expansion of park and trail facilities. Erhart: f $as just going to ask you Hark if you uould 9e! up and maybepoint out to us uhat the green areas in the park plan for north of TH 5 is. Koegle:': As I referenced before, what's Iacking in this is an overlay that - shoi^rs the trails that are along some of the major arteries as ulell as someof the olher natural or pedestrian type trails that meander through Lhe souLhern part of the city. tJhat is shourn in terms of parks are all of the rexisting parks within the community. l''linnewashta Regional Park of courseis another one. There is an expansion shouln on the east side of Lake AnnPark. There's approxirnately 25-30 acre expansion. That has been F l anni. ng Commission June 5, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 27 programmed as part of the planning at least in the community for, Iiterallysince the 1980 plan Has put together- Beyond that the only real corridorsthat show on this map are the Lake Ann InLerceptor line which runs up thisu,ay. The intent always has been to be able !o put a trail segment as apart of that to make a connection possibly between Minnewashta RegionaIPark and Lake Ann Park ultimately as ueII as the City I think at leastsince the late 70's has been on record as having a desire to get green space around at least one of the lakes in the community. tJhen you have a community that's blessed with the lakes that this community is, it seemslike you'd like to obtain Lhat more frequently but urith the developmentpattern i.t's very difficult. Lake Ann has always been targeted as the oner.rhich the City has a chance hopefully to get a green belt corridor aII theway around the lake. The dirnensions that are shown on this particular plan reaIJ.;r simply are only indictative of the fac! that we're stressing thatthat's !.ihat's desired. tJhether that, line and open space actually is hereoi- ccmes back or zigs and zags becomes a subject of some of the futureplanning to be done by fhe Park Commission as weLl as developmentspropcsals as they come i.n. As was identified earlier this piece ofproperty over here is under the ownership of Prince at the pr.esent time andquite honestly assuming that probably it wiII remain in it's present statefor sorie time. So the intent is to have the open space connections, thecor-ridor around Lake Ann and then trail system also bridges connection beti^ieen parks, major employment centers, schools, residentiaL areas, and sofor th . Erhart: Okay, I'd also like to point out too on the school issue which isirnpi,rt:rt to a lot of people is that just by designating Lhat spot as apotential school site doesn't dictate that if a school is built in Chanhassen that it would acLually be in thaL site. That would be determined at that time by what land is available and the valuation and soforth. It's just that we are trying to identify today a site that thatn;ost logically would fit a school.. So are there any other questions? Issues? Paul Youngquist: My name is Paul Youngquist. f own and live at theproperty at 7105 Hazeltine BIvd.. I'm urondering, this is my first meeting here so f need to get brought up to date a little bit but I'm wondering whai is the north boundary of Lhe study area and hor.r uJas that identified and then what are the east/west black lines there north of the study area? Ar'C tell me a little more about why was the study area identified and uhatare the potential different scenarios for uhat might happen there. Krauss: tlell the simple one first. The east/u,est black lines areilluslrative Locations of where collector streets would be built at somepoint in the future if developmenL occurs. CIearIy we have a need toprovide streets that service the nebr areas. t^,lhether it's exactly in thatIocation or exactly in that alignment, nobody's really looked at how co alisn the street itself. There's been no engineering studies but Ne clearLy need to connect the points. Those streets do provide a connection betu,een TH 41 and Galpin. As to the definition of the study area, one of the things that is hanging over our heads a Iittle bit is if we get realwiid and crazy and ask for a tremendously large i'1USA line expansion, the Metro council will. reject it out of hand. It has to be a reasonable PIanning Conrmission June 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ns 2A request. And in fac! Lhe si.ze of this request is a little bit surprising tc Lhe Me'-ro Council staff that l.'ve spoken to. So lhere was a clear desire not to go overboard and the size of that sLudy area u,as largely determined by the amount of development that was thought to be reasonable but not excessive. The exact definition of *hat's to be in the st.udy area is something that we really haven't discussed essentially. Later on tonight there will be a little bit of a discussion as to what that might be conve:-ted to if another area is removed from the MUSA line request- But intentionally the Planning Commission I think Nanted to keeP the options open for what might be considered in there. PauI Youngquist: t^,hat's the north boundary of the study area? I can'L tell you which oneKrauss: llell it follows some property lines. it is but we did try to follor.r property ]ines. Ei'ha: t: Again the other aspect of that was the area in yel]ow would more +-han likely be served with the gravity flow into that existing Lake Ann seuer line. It's not precisely but that was one of the general corsiderations in putting those lines where they are. Any other comrnenls? Cueslions on the 10 year plan in general. 8ill, have you got another one? Erha,'-t: Okay. Did everybody catch Lhe question? Eill Miller: tlhat if you had 4,o0o requests to put in factories and '"lould you say, well ue're going to ask foy 1,736 acres of industrial 525 residential or is there some kind of ratio where you say Ne want have x amount of this and x amount of that or ure Hant development. . . no,,. and to Krauss: Yeah, there was a ratio that was established and I guess the ratio was estab!.ished by looking at ulhat we have now. The Planning Commi.ssiontook a look at uhat we have noul and I think there uas a general comfort let,el^ with that sort of a mix and it was anticipated that thaL sort of mix should be repeated into the future. There certainLy r.lasn 't a desire fthink fairly to capture as much industrial groxth for example as istheoretically possible if you listen to aII the brokers. There'ssignificant areas Lhat have been excluded from that type of developmentinten+-ionally and it's basically a compromise but it was to achieve theg;al that the community as it is today, what constitutes a community iswhat's going to exist 10 years from now. Bill HiIler: Did you compare it to other communities and you know for example ',hat Chanhassen...as anyplace else or anything Iike that? I mean othe:- lhan the fAct that it uas already there. I mean did you have an ideaof r.rhat's... There are no benchmarks or anything like that? EiIl Mil. ler: can I have another one urithout 9oin9 up there? I'Il talk IoudLy. In the planning process itself urhen you're coming up uith these acres such as the location for residential , commercial and industrial. To some degree r guess they're obviously based upon grouth and demand for the -Iand and... Does anyone plan beyond that? ...for example, what if therejus'- yrasn't a IoL of desire for residential development for some reason but there was a Io! of demand for industrial deveLopment? Planning Commission June 6, t99O - Page Meet i ng 29 Koegler: The land use pattern was compared to other communities. I can't teII you. I know Plymouth h,as one that h,as looked at jusL in Lerms of the rnix of residential. versus the industrial/office and so forth and I think this one coincidentally ended up being very similar to that- That they're emphasizing the low densily as a major Iand use also. Beyond that the Planning Commission has entertained discussions about the !ax ramifications of various types of development. That's a very difficult thing !o put a handle on because quite honesLly you can find supporting data for about anyposition on lhat topic that you want to take. But that has been a factor as well as the policies that have been adopled, were adopted back in 1980that at least the Commission has again earmarked in providing a mi.x of land uses Lhat does provide ernployment opportunities. ThaL does spread tax burdens across varieties of types of land uses and does provide a housing n,ix that keys to, as PauI referenced before, various interests. Various economic levels, Iifeslyles and so forth. So I think Lhat's the on.Ly way I can respond. There Here some general comparisons but I think it builds .largely upon a cerlain comfor! Ieve] that the type of mix lhaL's Lhere now, a:1e6st with the developed portion of Lhe City now is affording Lhe type of oper, space anci the environment that generally I think the comments are :haL :hai's whaL desired and the aLtempt is to mainiain. that as this comriiunity gces on and grows continually over lhe next 10 to 20 years- 5rhart: An.i again this is a plan based on assumpLions. If the demand for housing isn'! there, obviously no one's going to try to attempt !o develop lhe property. El.iscn; I '"hink one of lhe ideas of having a whole plan is it's easier to turri a"iay a deveLoper when you say ure didn't have plans for that, That's not hjhaL Ne want Chanhassen to be. Here look at our plan and see what we want Chanhassen to be and then you have, ue said. t^Je'Il talk to you but we have a lot mcre reason to turn them away and just say we're not interesled u..',ei.r u"; have a plan in place that the CiLy has supported. [.le urould desinitely say !;e wiLl wait 50 years for it to deveLoP Lhis way if lhis is the r,ray we urant . It doesn't have to be done urithin 10 years . He's r ight , every developer wouLd tell you that they could bring in this amount of nroney buL if we zone that aII yellow and someone {ants to Put something broxn in there for their own good, we've got a real good basis to say it doesn'L seem to fit with trhat u,e Nant. Erhart : Okay, Chuck. Chuck Gabrielson: Chuck Gabrielson back again. Just kind of drawing on :he quesLion about the little red area there. on the Tom Thumb idea a*' lhe co:'ner of Galpin and TH 5. The question that I have is urhen I heard the ccinrrents talked about vranting to having something convenient to the neighborhocd. Is that a consideration of the PeoPLe who are current.Lv there or- 6.i€ yoU anticipating hrhat the wants are going to be of the orange aiL{ the brown area PeoPle because I think if you bothered to test the c,pi r'.ions of those who are current residents of the area, ule'd just as soon drive the extra miles inLo Chanhassen or uP to Shorewood to 9e! our gas or cir. .r,ergency groceries or someLhing like Lhat. That's why I'm wondering, is iL in anticipation of tranLing to satisfy somebody who eventuallv mighL Planning Commission iune 5, 199C - Page Heet i ng 30 clearly for those people who evenlualIv uiII bethat anything will be put there until that area want to be lhere or the people who are currently in the area? Erhart: It'sit's u nl i kely deve L oped . ther e a rrdis mor e .Chuc k Gabrielson: Thank you. Erhart: Any other questions on that part of the plan? Eric? Eric Rivkin: Eric Rivkin. I live on Lake Lucy. I have some comments onthe plan not particular to the Lake Lucy area that I think should beshared. Cne is I agree u,ith the comments that I've heard tonight andpariicularly Mr. OIin's comments about creative solutions to the stripaes:'-hetic. i think in response to the land form or the lrue character ofthe Lown, the way people feel should be really considered here, It says i r-:the cor,rprehensive plan draft, and I had a chance to read it over. I! says t 5e :-e +-hat nei.r development should be discouraged from encroaching uponvital naLural resources. After canvasing many people in the area northcf TH 5, i can honestly say that many of us are committed Lo preserving and F,r.',ecting this naturaL environment to keep this area a desireable place toLive. Ue believe in responsible stewardship of the Iand, air end uater and- we have pride in caring for it in our own backyards. !,Je wan! the area pr-ese ;-l eJ with as rruch open space as possible for wi ldl if e r,rhich wi I I beendangered by higher density deve).opment. I think the corridor between La ke l''ii r,ne,;ashta Regional Par k and Lake Lucy/Lake Ann area uould serve asan excellent corridor for preserving that. Hith higher densitydevelopment, major Class A wetlands surrounding the lakes and we have a Io!cf Ial.:e area in this region, could recei.ve an extremeLy high andpredictable amounL of non-point source polluLion trhich the HetroplitanCou:-icil has in r+riting lried to build policies to try and reduce thatd:-asticaLly. Daily removal of millions of gallons of uater pumped out ofthe ground urater. currently the water tower that's serving curry Farms ispur-,ipi.n,; 2 million gallons a day out of the summer months and 1 milli.on E;ai.lons a day out of the winter - If that area norlh of TH 5. That couldeasil) dcuble or triple. tJell No.3 shares Lhat system and that's what the-engineer told me iL's coming out of there. This may have an adverse affecton the availabilitv of the aquafir to replenish lake revers. t"le have areport from on Lake Lucy tha! shours that it's been fed by ground waterseepage. Host of the urater is for Lake Lucy rahich is a headwaters for thechain of rakes thal feeds into Lake Ann that's necessary to improve themaintenance of hish water quality. rf you repJ,ace that water with waterLhat is coming down from streets and rooftops and roads into the wetlandsand inLo the lakes, it uill be replaced by r.rater that is very high innutrients and wiII pollute the lakes- Hany, if not most of the systems oflhe horres in the area above TH 5 and west of Lake Lucy and Lake Ann havene septic systems with alternate drainfield sites arready. Many of theLandorarrers including Prince and Jerome carlson and severar others aroundGalpin including myse.Lf and unwilling to develop into the far future. ' There is little or no desire to develop in Lhe area surrounding this areabeyond lhe 2 f/2 acre, the old 2l/Z acre density. That means that thegerieral gror4th rat-e is expected to be extremely small. If there are a Flanning Commission June 6, 7990 - Page Meet i n9 31 Cifferent set of homeouners in 20 or 30 years, the majority may have adifferent opinion buL I believe strongly that that's going to be unlikely. One thing that I didn't mention to the people that I had canvased earlieruntil I thought about it later that may change many people's minds aboutbeing inside HUSA at all, taxes are high enough in this town. .If we'reinside the MUSA, ue woi.rld face much hisher taxes based on potential valtreand would also face being levied special assessments based on potentialvalue like Minnetonka did Lo Hightand neighborhood. I managed for manyyears to stay out of being serviced with sewer yet they,re within the HUSA district and they assessed them. They don't have the utiliLy. Soeven though they're not receiving the serVices, they've been assessed for-it and that could happen to us. tJe realize that our land and homes haveeconomic values and maybe hedge against an uncertain economic future. TheLake An\ InLercepLor was put in against t,he area residents wishes and aslong as there's no real, not an imagined potential for development, wer.!:ongly oppose any atLempt Lo levy specials for services no! used orL:cause there's only wrongfully imagined potential for deveLopment. t^,eCc,n't- want, and this is a really gut feel that a lot of people had ex;r'eesecl to rne is that they don't want our ]ocal government body imposirrga cjifferent set of values. tjhere they tell us the land is worth more to us p.a. e d over uJilh streets and sewers, populated with lots of houses . l.,le wantto be left alone to live ulith our own common values concerning the future f o,' our Land and nol. our governmen!'s values. [.Je want to be able !o se].l.Ur hDirres not on development potential but the value it holds as a place toenjoy nature, re).ax and get away from it aII. n well cared for or restorednatural su;-rounding and watershed uhich uould be protected by zoning andbuilCins laws, has it's own econornic value not only for our homes but lhe :,e ighbo:-ing ones as well. I knotr that !o be the case of people in PheasantFillls. I Con't lhink that simple return on investment is the on).y reasonio cr;: Ian,C and live in Chanhassen and I don't think this vieur shouldmanifest itself in the policies or this plan and especially the actions of:h. City. tJe don't wanL to continually fight to mitigate Lhe damage from l-,..:r.;:r progress enbodied and misplaced or insensitively deveLoped :'..side :-itial and industrial pro jects. Solid plans, laws and practices c;eatively employed including large doses of public education must be the r,ed norm in my opini.on to prevent the damage in the first place. Andthere's some specific things that relate to the draft that I'd Like to go over. There's not that many of them. Er ha:'t : Are youget into the - , . talking about things in general here or are you ready !o Eric Rivkin: No. They're aII in general . As I said before, I think landpopulation projections need to be re-evaluated very seriously. You say inhere that, you mention a lot of nice things about protecting the uatershed. You menLion policies about protecting roof, waLer, paved surface drainageshall be channeled into the storm Hater system as approved by the engineer and appropriate agencies. I suggest that if you control the quantily ofthe water, quality and the quantity of the urater and the ground Naler, you .cntiol the quality of the water entering the lakes and streams. I think soiTrelhing to lhat effect should be included in the plan as an overall suiding ligl-'', here. Storm water runoff iL says here Lhat should be held onthe land for Lhe greatest extent possible. If you maintain, the only way Planning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page t,leet i ng t,: really get rid of nutrients Lhat are rrurnber one enemy of keeping Lake Ann or polluting the lakes and that is the Lake Lucy or any of the downstream lakes from turning into swamps of those holding areas. is to be able to harvest those nutrienls out Erhart: Eric, have you got a r.rhole list of things and is that the same list that you supplied us before the meeting? Eric Rivkin: No. I Lhink there's some incompatible land uses. I don't think an industrial area ought to be located next to the Arboretum. Er-F,61-'.: Eric, why don't we, I'11 tell you what. Let's open, if you don't -ninc', LeL's open the meeLing up to the broader discussion of thai area. i.jlr:., Con't ue therr come back to the specific things if ycu uould, Is that at.;r' Ri.vkin: tJeIl these are things that affect lhe whole area north ofE:-ir I -', f, Erl-art haue i : I unciersland. I']1 give you a chance s PauI make his presenLation reacting to ted a week ago and get back to that. If o go through lhose things but I think I' broader subjects so some people can get theirget o:l their way if they need to go and treat touards the end if we could. Iater on. tlhat I'd Iike the petition that you we have time at the end, d Iike to get it open to input on overall land use Lhose specific details to _t'o- the and Er-ic Rivkin: t,ell is tree cover a specific to Lake Lucy area? Is the rretural feature section? I think I'd like to be heard on that. 5;-h.r',: Oliay, but ycu've ycJ .. second chance okay. taken Lhe 5 minutes and like I say, we'II give E:-ic Rivkin: tlell, okay. Erhart: PauI , would you like topresen:ation on the petition and open !o everythi ng . you rwill be Tir, Keene: Are you moving into Lake Lucy after this then? Erhart: As soon as the generaL comments are over. Tir,i Keene: As to the north plan? grhart: Ri ght -in Keene: Good evening. My name is Tim Keene with Larkin, Hoffman, Daly::rJ Lindgren, 79OO Xerxes. I'm here on behalf of MiII's Fleet Farm. AIsohere this evening is Tom Green and Hill's Fleet Farm is also been ap:-rti.cipanL and a member of the Highuay 5 Corridor Coalition that has beenparticipa+-in9 throughout the planni.ng process these many months, tlilI's start out? then after don't you ma ke the discussion r,Jhy tha t trl a nni ng Corilrnission Jurre 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng 33 fleet Farm owns approximately 14O acres in the northeast corner of TH 41and TH 5. Excuse me, approximately 50 acres. Scaled doun in thatnortheast corner. It's adjacent to that corner and the site is presently designated the 1995 study area. tJe have some conc€rns with thisdesignation. First and foremost is the site is located, the intersectionof two trunk highways and as Professor Olin has noted previously, there arelegitimate concer-ns relating to strip development along that corridor. Inthe spirit of good planning also promote activity centers and activitynodes and urhat better place to have an activity node than in theintersection of two state highways. That is the attracLion to the site.ft. is one that does'cry out to be an activity center to serve people fromall. four directions and one that I think should be planned accordingly andir: this p).an dccument. The second concern of ours, by putting this in thisic.: s:udy area is that the area in the perimeter is going Lo be developeciin a single farnily residential land use paLtern and this community andhi.s'.ory ger:erally is replete with examples. Once the homes are in and:uiLi ai-rd the neighbors are in, the opposition is there to put anything butrrcie hcres just like the ones that are already there. If iL should bec.:-,:..s:ciel , it should be desiginated commercial if that's rdhat makes sensei:'r tl-.i: FLanning process. If it's a mix of other uses, higher and Iowerus,:age, then let's plan it. I don't think that 1995 study area has to,eren though it's outside the f'letropolitan Urban Service Area, that youcan't address the land use pattern. The phasing and timing of services andu'..ililies urould be a logical sequence but the land use pattern can and ft'.irr!: shouid be established in this process. We've had some concernsexpre;:eJ throughoui the process regarding the City's overall tax base a:rdbalance beiween cornnercial, industrial and residential.. The 120 sorie acres Ll-,-.'- ha've been ident if ied as commercial to serve the fuLure needs of lhecity through 2O1O does seem a bit low. It represents approximately 6? ofthe to',-aI new developmenL that's projected based on your single familydei,elopment scheme. Those people have to send their children to school anCtla *.ax cornparables simply don't, the single family pattern, Iou densiLyall 5>' i'.sel.f simply...does nor- support the demands for goods, servi.ces andschools that are required by that populaLion and I would encourage you th;cughout this process to take a look at that balance. Your tax capacity on your low density residential in the community presently is in the neighborhood of $2,5OO.OO to $3,5OO.OO per acre based on the value of thehomes. Chanhassen is realizing that on average, if it's commercial andindustrjal, approximately !611,OOO.OO to $12,OOO.OO per acre. Somebody'sgot to pay for those schools and it's not the single family homes andthat's just a fact. The proposed MiIl's Fleet Farm would be a 4 to 5miiLion dolLar facility paying belueen !E25O,OOO.OO and $3OO,OOO.OO per year in today's tax dollars. I would encourage you to throughout this process Lake a look at the pattern and consider some land use designations for thei995 study area. Thank you. Erhar:: Thank you. I think Lhere's some interesting comments. anybc-'d;., Paul or Mark want to respond to those? I don't think Dc you have somethi ng? Ooes we have to. ron', G-een: M€y I speak? Er-hart: Sure. Planning Commission June 6, !99O - Page |4eet i ng Tom creen: |1y name is Tom Green. I'm a Vice President of Hill's Fleet Farm. our company has some presence in the Tuin city market but we are frorn up in Brainerd, Minnesota. I'd like to ask the guestion, we talk about logic development and if you look souLh of TH 5 we see uhere we'vejogged over for approximately 40 acres of industrial . I'm also told tha! our site probably canno! be serviced for sewer to the northurest. However, irn suggesting that we could be seurer serviced ui.th gravity feed to lhe sor.ith. I'd like to propose that if ue could have a node sticking ou! like you've got in the industrial area to the south, you could surely consider a node sticking out in that intersecLion. Do you see my Point? Thank you for your time. Erhar-+,: Thanks Hr. Green. Any response to that Paul? Krauss: Any response. UeIl, I think it's clear and Gary t,arren, our CiLy -E:rgi'reer is here tonight. Unfortunately he doesn't have a voice so he may wa,,e his hands and say yes but we did look aL, there is an ability to serve thaL sludy area- t^le've got, we're preparing the utility section of the rlarr right noui and i! would anticipate showing us at leasL how we could se:-ve that study area uhen the City trants or determines !o do that. So I don ''- think the sole issue is whether or not ure could serve it or not. I thirrk the rea.L crux of the issue is Lhat when the Planning commission q loo|reC at that, I mean you didn't look at it in a vaccum. You knew Lhatt\ere wag a commercial ournership on the corner there and in fact there uJ6s 6 pr-esentation of a plan by the TH 5 developmen'- coalition that shous large- shopping centers north and south of TH 5 there and quite a bit of i -,C-:t:'ial office development up and dourn the freeway. Up and down TH 5. I :-h:n'r.. there was a clear choice that that r.Jas not a development scenariothai the Planning Commission was comfortable with nor did they want to encourage .it. And there's a concern that if that corner urere brought into th. MLiSA line prematurely, that it lessens the ability of the City to co'rt.ro] and keep lhose types of uses that are incompatible out. I don't knca if at some point somebody someplace is going !o decide that that's a gocc corner for commercj.al , tle really did not discuss that actively because of Lhe study area designation but the sLudy area designation is cLearLy being used to say that somebody 5 years from now should take a look Erhart I Okay. Anything else open the discussion up to all l(raugs: Sure. !'1r. Rivkin who Bryan Pi ke: My name is Bryan Pi ke. I 'm the Pastor of l.,lestside BaptistChurch. We have 10 acres on the end of the |.1USA Iine risht trhere it hits TH 4i and we're in this west corridor. tle just heard about the petition '-he last couple days. tle ueren't informed of it and ue're right smack dabi: t'e :jcd]e of that western corridor and we're definitely wanting to develop arri ue wanted to make that known. f r-h.:-i: cood. Stick around. PauI , do you u,ant to take it ar^,ay? in general? Okay, if not, let's proceed and issues and including. BriefIy, the Planning Commission received a petition from spoke earlier tonight regarding the potenLial of continueC Planning Commission Heet i ng JirEe 6., 7990 - Page 35 ls:ge lot development in the area surrounding his neighborhood. The Commission asked staff to investigate the pros and cons of that issue anCrepo:-t back. t^Je did over the IasL ueek ule did develop a formal reporL which the Planning Commission has and r,le'd make it available to anybodywho'd like to look at it but urould summarize it's findings as follours.tjhiIe there's nothing inherently righL or ulrong with large lot development,there are significant constraints on future large Lot subdivision that cjoesnot have access to sewer. First of aII, at the present time all of thepecpLe that yeside in ruraL residential or agricultural areas r.rhich isvirLuaLly the entire area that we're looking at for the expansion of the MUSA, are unable to connect to publ.ic. sewer. That's what the i'1USAdesigination infers. By ordinance you're limited to t homesite per 10acyes. That was an ordinance that the Hetro Council required us Lo adopt er-,d the basic premise is to prevent premature development or Ieap frog Cei,eloprnent out beyond the MUSA line. ft was part of the Lake Ann :-,1'-e:'ceF!-ar agreerrent urhich uras a contractual agreement that the City €ir'.e r-ed in+-o with the Hetro Council and M[,CC to get the f nterceptor built. lJ5e i-, a pai-ca.L is located inside the HUSA Iine and uLilities are available,s,,bdivision with sewer is possibLe. There's a minimum lot size of 15,OOOsquare fee', anj I stress minimum Iot size. Many of our lots areco.,siderably in excess of that and i!'s rea]Iy up to the person that's:elling t.he land or marketing the property to determine what they'd like toCo- fn Chanhassen we find that most of our lot sizes are, except south cf T.L: !. North of TH 5 most of the lot sizes are actually someulhat larger iha;-, that. Sometimes considerably larger because of aII lhe wetlands and:i-.e cover and urhalever else uas found on the property that uJe're trying topr-esel-ve. The Metroplitan Council wilI not permit cities to have large lor,oi- sei ered development within a MUSA line. They were very clear on that, So ir other wo:-ds you can't expand the MUSA line and expect that Lhe deve).opmerrt urithin that area can continue to subdivide without having access to sewer. Chanhassen has hisloricaIly required that a1I development*ithin ihe MUSA Iine hook up to the seuer and city water. There's a nurnberc' :eaeons for this. Fundamentally the major one is environmental. tJe s..;i-veyed other communities and found out that they had similarrequirements, At our last meeting I believe there were a number of comrnunities mentioned. Orono being in particular and ue could not find anythat Hi!hin the l,lUSA allowed large Iot unsewered development smaller than 10 acres which is the same. standard that's applied nou outside the MUSAline. From both regional and local standpoints, Iarge lot unsewered development within the MUSA line promotes Ieap frog development and oftentimes it's very costly and difficult to provide services for. It'softentimes very controversial Lo provide iervices for as services are needed as years come down. tlhat this all boils dor.l n to is that for aparcel to have any real subdivision potential , it must be located wiLhirr).he HUSA line and any new lots would be hooked up to city seurer and HaLer.l'<j also poin+- out that the HUSA line is not relocated very easily. It5ink this meeting tonight is a good example of that. It's a very involvedprocess anC one that is not enLirely in our conlrol . It's overseen by theMetropolitan Council. l^Je can assume that the current plan, when one isadr,=teJ, r"iil probably relocate the !!USA line for the next 10 years for the sake of argument. Thus a parcel that is located outside the MUSA Li;re asi!'s drafted by this plan will not Iikely have any development potential3o:' that period of time. The PJ^anning Commission is attempting to respond Planni ng Commiss ion June 6, !99O - Page Meet i ng Kcegler: The a.Lternative that PauL referenced that's been put together modiries the MUSA line in this area to omit a large area and f'm not as up t. speed on delai]s on the petition as PauI is so I won't respond to t-hat specifically. I'Il let him cover that. But basically when ute sat doi,:n we tried to look at trying to determine if there was a logical way to scribe a |.'!USA Iine uhich urould still achieve some continuity around certain areas but yet r"ould potentially pull out some of the properties. This is merely one Scenario of how that could occur. tlhat it does is it takes the line i"hich r-rsed to 9o around this way and scribes it, includes this piece ofpr-Jper-ty. r! comes up. It comes across this way. Around and then exits a:-rC gces on out to the r^rest as it did previously. That omits this area Lhat 's nor' shown in white from the I',IUSA line area. It adds in the sLuCy a:'e : ;i',ich hypothetically is part of this alternate has been labeled lox de,-si'.r. -l-,e primary reason for that is to some degree a replacement ofthe lour density property that would be lost to larger ]ot uses in thisparLi;u).a:- area. The overall net impact on the comprehensive plan andspecificalLy on the amount of acreage that's allocated for residentialplrposes. is reall.y pretLy much a ulash. They're very close to one another!n terms of the amount of I ot^r density that's shown with the implementationof a scheme of this nature and the low density that was shoun on theunderlying plan lhat we presented earLier. Do you want to add comments. atLhis t in,e? Krauss: Ju6t a couple. As l'1ar k indicated, it uses the study area that we -p:-eviously had not discussed very actively to basically provide for uhat's expected to be the growth of the community. It does get at the Fleet Farm issue by making lhe statement that it won't be a Fleet Farm basically. But -th:s ;.jas sornething that we developed in response to a petition. No;: maybef corld pu! up an illustration here on the overhead. It's very tough to respcnC ta these things. First of a]l. we didn't take up Lhe petition p.:esented from Hr. Rivkin and ue'lL Lake it at face value buL you can't ge:-i-ynander the HUSA line. You can't zlg zag it back and forth dependingon:he i:rCividual's choices of property owners at lhat point in time. It ha-. to t,e a yaLional and reasonable line. For the sake of discussion I - tc the petilion that was received and if the people that responded on that Fetitiorr understand whaL's involved and want to be excluded from the MUSA, it r,ay be possible to do so, of course if the l,letropolitan Council apptoves - it. I did discuss this with their staff. I met with them again this r.ree li and they're a Iittle skeptical about proposals that would signi.f icantly shift the MUSA line. One of their major concerns is that we have a Metropolitan Interceptor in the ground that would be unused if the HUSA line urere relocated outside that area but I sLill think it's something that coulo' be considered. SLill the Planning Commission is attempting to be respo;isive to the petition by developing an alternate plan tha! would relocate the HUSA line outside of the area in question. Hoving it south tc;uards the direction of TH 5 uhich excludes most of the lots that uere i Llustrated in the petition that u,e received. If the property ou,ners are rior-e comfol-lable with Ehis alternative, it may be Possible to incorPorate'lut again r caution you wilh there are implications for those PeoPIe long range and there are Lhings uJe'll have to explain to Lhe l-letroPolitan -Courrcil. I'd like Mark to put up that alternative plan if we could and erpl,ir, how ue der ived that. trianning Commission .l'.r r,e 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng thiirk "re cjid make an overhead of the map,..regarding the petition itself. I hope this is cLear but with tshe exception of those 3 parcels that were to have the names of the ourners, according to the petition, these wereproperties that desire to be outside of the IIUSA line and have stated so inthe pelition. HopefulIy that alternative responds to that this is the choice " t^,hich again, I'd just like t.o reileraLe that the MUSA linb does not resu}t immediately in development. It is not required Lo develop, Itis solely the decision of the property ou,ner to do so. I'd also point out that Lake Lucy Highlands and Timberwood have always been viewed as something different from the rest of the undeveloped or the area outside the HUSA line and that is because they were platted under a pye !987 ordinance that allowed 2 f/2 acre lots uithout having access to seHer. That ordinance nc longer exists but we recognize the fact that of course ti,ese cjeveLopments are in place and have modern func!ioning septic systens a;rd are no! likeLy to need public utilities in any near Limeframe arid there's going to be text that r.rould be added Lo the plan, whicheveralternative is selected, that will make it perfectly obvious to the MeLro Ccuncjl and everybody else that xe don't anticipate the need to bring service into those parLicular areas. t^le have similar areas thai flow +-hrough Lhe.south of the city...would be in the potential MUSA Iine exFansicr. i"Jith that I'lI turn it back to you. :)-hart i ol":ay. f urant to point out again Lhat Eric did quiLe a bit of work cver ';he last few weeks in pulting together a petition and presenLing some alternaLive ideas and I think ue commend him on doing that. I think u,,e try tc seriously respond to those ideas wiLh some ideas that He could oPen it i: ',1,; oublic to respond to lhe two things that we've just looked at. So :,ith ',ha! I guess I'd like to open that up to other PeoPle wilh our alternatiue ideas and their reaction to this as oPPosed to our initialproposaL. Brian? Pi- i a n l(l i;,gel hutz: Tr.ro of my f r iends i ight here . ihis is 25 acres. I !.ras of lhe per there.,.never asked us. and I ohrn this big piece of prope)'ty irondering, Lhat's a preLty big slip Er-ic Rivkinr sorry . . .currently uith the lot lines.and the ProPerty oh,ners...anci I had to take that at face value. I don't even know where B:-ien's property really begins or ends. I kind of had to guess based on acres that he told me,.. Erha:t: Okay, I think the point here Brian is you are not. Bria:r Klingelhutz: [.le are not for iL. Then I was wondering whatquestions, how did you get aII these PeoPIe to sign it? Did you say, if you agree with this lhat the seuer's going to 9o through here...or what appr cacf, did you use? E:!,ar+-: Brian, I dcn'! think that's an issue. t,hy don't you come up and te-]l us u.rhat you'd like Lo see in your Particular ProPerty and what you'd li^e '"o see on this Comp Plan. I think we realize that the peiition was a gerr.:al petition. It iLliciLed some utork that ue've done and we've gone -lack a:-;d asked these same questions. HotJ the Petition was made so we beitei' understand so I don't mean to cut you off there ' I just say I'd Plar,iiing Conmission ,-.ine 6, 1990 - Page Meet i ng 3a ljke to have you taLk about r^,hat you'd ]ike to se6 on the plan and how itrelaies to your property. Brian KLingelhutz: Obviously we want to see it residential .r.rith seweravailable to it and one of the reasons is we bought it a lot of years ago and that b,as on the plan for the next area to get it. Then the seuer line carr,e Lhrough and i^re didn't give them any opposition. No hard time and theyeven stubbed in a spot for us to hook onto it when it came through. For ape'-iLion to change that noh, just doesn't seem fair. tlhen this was a longrange investment for us. It's a beautiful piece of property for a lot of hones overlooking the pond. It's clos€ to a school. I mean for somebody!o change iL, it just doesn't seem right. So that's our opinion. Eil,a;-t: AIrighL. The issue Lhere was the land uas shoun on the petition bu*- your name Nasn't signed on that pelition and I think ue've go! yourp.:rticular interest so anyone else? Chuck Gabrielson: Chuck Gabrielson urith another question. Looking at the map that was underneath that one, I uas wondering uJhat the intent was of sr^ri'-ching around kind of yellow areas. Hy concern is that if it's the ideaof trying to pi! one neighborhood against another neighborhood saying r,rho'ggciia to be yel los; and who's not going to be yellow. Who's going to be inihis ares. iJhc's going to be in that area and I'm wondering why the tradcof f . iJhy no+- just the expansion of the area that !,ras not included i nthe MUSA line? That uas my first reaction was all of a sudden *ell nor.r naybe ii-'s us versus them or something like that. I'm just curious about why all of a sudden the change from the 1995 study area in particular. E:hart r Did you havethe other one? any particular point of view about this plan versus a':r,i:, cabrlelscn: I like the other one better. But I wouldn't mindincorp::-aLing the whoLe area into out of the MUSA Iine area if that's r.ihatLheT':e wanting but I just, when I saw this presentation I thought to:;,yself , the firsL concept I had Has Lhey're trying to pit us against theother ne!.ghborhood type thing. That Bas my first thing was a reactionpolitically that they're trying to create enemity between the neighborhoodsbe;euse right now we're cooperating fairly uelI. Kraussr And uie certainly have no desire to pit anybody against anybo,C>,.These meetings are tough enough to get through without that. What hlelcoked at Lhough uas Lhere was a desire, this plan started out and onecould argue thp goals but the goal was to provide for reasonable amounL ofresidentiai growLh, single family residential groulth in the city over thenex!- io to 12 years. rf we eliminate a significant amount of the supply ofland, you're either not going to attain that goal or you're going Lo findsoriip]ace else to do it. Then if we're looking for someplace else to doi'-, y.or., say t,:ell h,hat's reasonabl.e? tlhat can we legitimately serve? t,ihatcai re legitimately provide access to? t,hat do we think the Metro Counci lRal :. ei- us actually implement? It's true. The area to the north wass).xays slated to be the next area to be deveJ.oped. That's why thatinter-ceF,Lor is there but lacking that, u,e felt that this was a reasonableapproach to achieve the goals. It is a land surap but that uas the F, -L -'?u snning Comm iss ion 1990 - Page Heet i ng 39 alternative we t.rere faced with. Chuck Gabrielson: Assuming that the interceptor is not used, how nroney urcu ld you have urasted? t,e wasted? HouJ much did ure traste?cf Chanhassen's money wenL into that? much How much K;'6uss: I believe it was about a half million dol lars . your pelilion, why don't you takeir f,ar'.: I f you have an explanation ofjust a short response. -ic i.ivkin: ...about where the lines are draurn... I did my darn best :i-!-, :he map: Lhat I had and what people told me where lines were drauic. h.::'e pec;1e's lots were. I left out white holes that xere indicated cn hr, cr,,erhead and I tried honestly to indicate that. I didn't remember :- 7''-';. rr.-: , i f ycu say you own 26 acres , I knew that you wanted to develotrr,j :ha:'s why I didn't conLact you. I uas just... and if you say you owr; a.res, I'm not even sure that even the lines the City drew rnay,.. Kl ingelhutz: This line is in the. . . E:lc Fivkin: Yeah, but if this is the edge of the property. This is where t !'r- i1a.,.: ir,o's begin and this is uhere your 's begins. That may be right or:. -^.- --.r - ll'd/ rrUL. E- Ca r ver Brian's abuts right onto Brian's and Lee's property.., county plat book and you'd see it real easily. Frhai-t : :.,;e ! L this a great departure f rom where the City's been goi ng f ort|,a las'. i5 years and I really uould like to have people come on up and Ccinr;:3nt abou! this because it's a real big change. l.le've discussed it a lot here already. [^le're not sure if people understand what the petition means and please come on up and tal k to us about this thins. [.,|e're very concerned about that input we receive. AI? E':c .tj.",kin: lleLI the map that I goL from the City didn't have alL the Al Klinge]hutz: I r^,,asn't going to speak tonisht but I really feel there's been a Io! of misunderstanding. The Lake Ann Interceptor hras put in in 19aa-89 but back in 1980 ure had an urban service Iine that was a lot bigger thar, Lhe present line. I Lhink some of you might remember that. ft carne down and it almost encompassed the actual line that you're trying to get in today. ihe city worked hard to get the Lake Ann Interceptor put in. They ;pent a ',alf a million dollars which is to be assessed and has already been assessed ds soon as tha! Iine gets into the HUSA line at $43o.oo an acYe I b,:l iet,e it is fo: any area that can feed into that Lake Ann IntercepLor. Tia:'s a given. BuL anybody that lives in the 21/2 acye tract sites anC dcesn't riant the seurer is not going to have to pay a lateral charge until they as.k for that seu,er to come in. And really, the Met Council which is o,,jr money too, I believe in order to put that Lake Ann fnterceptor ove:' and above t-he half a million dollars that Chanhassen spent, spent another'5 Planning Commiss ion June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 40 Chuck GabrieLson: That's more Iike what I was thinking it might be. Al Klingelhutz: Risht. Nor4 ue don't u,ant to let any development go around it. Are those 51.22 million dollars going to sit there for the next 10years and not have any use of that investment that ulas put in just a feu years ago? Someone with 10 acres of land or 15 acres of land in that area might r,:anL to develop long before then. I don't knou. I don't knou. I think the people that have signed that petition outside of maybe those at the Lake Lucy Highlands and the few of the others in the smaller lots, at 21/2 acre lots, better take another good hard look at Nhat they did because they're taking dollars out of their pocket and throuing it to the r.,r i nd - Bryan Pi. ke:that plan tothe ot her ? I 've just got a the Met Counci I quick question. that they would possibl.e that one by pr esenti n9 sooner than Is itreject Krauss: The Met Council's tough to figure. I don't know. I've beentryin€i to work with their staff people ihat uould make the recommendation to the Council and they did express a concern that here's a regional 1'acii.ily. Regional facilities are their cup of tea. That's what they do.That's sitting in the ground that we wouldn't be using. Nor4 uhelher lhey'6- a.cep-- it or rrot it seemed awful strange to them that we uould even thinkof cioing that. I think we could probably sell the alternative plan to them 5..L i*-'s riol gcing to be the easiest thing. Bill Hiller: I guess I would say with regard to r.rhat we just looked at,this large lot stuff, I like large lot stuff so that's where I stand. Butregardless of that, I guess my point uould be sort of like...I hope thatbefore this interceptor thing bJas put in and I don't know a lot about this, and noa all of a sudden ure have all these people that don't seem Lo u,ant todevelop with this interceptor, I hope that aIl these people that own this Iand somehow knew about this or someone made an incredible mistake putting in this interceptor. I mean uras it put in without all these people kno*ing why and how. I mean uras this done to force the developmenL? That just seems to make no sense to me. f mean maybe Brian is very intelligent to have made a great invesLmen! like it uas out to h,here it is but all these milLion dollars to put that interceptor in. Bryan Pike: So u,e're looking at a delay, possible delays too? I went tothe llet Council 2 years ago uriLh lhis r,lhole issue of getting our churchproperty inside the sewer line because we were just outside of i! and we<o-Idn't build our church or ule t,ere running into a lot of complications,including the City Planner, because we u,ere outside of the MUSA line so Neput it on hold for that reason and uhen the Interceptor came through it cjisturbed most of our property so there wasn't really a viable site out onour property for a seplic system anyi.,ay. I mean it's running right throughthe middle of our property. It just seems almost ridiculous to not be able-to hook up to it. tlhat they lere telling me 2 years ago was it was up to Lhe City to present this plan and once it was presented, it was then they would make a decision but this sounds like something that's really going toput the kaboosh on their whole reason for opening it up. I don't knor.r. Planning Comm i ssion June 6, \99O - Page Meet i ng 47 other people and I mean you had this thing going through? That doesn't make a lot of sense Eo me. I'm just sort of looking from gosh, iL seenslike an incredible problem to me. I mean if you peL 5 L/2 million dol]arsin and all these people, I assume that they didn'L just dream up last nightthey cjon't r"ant to develop i.t. Then it se6ms like somebody played somereal incredible game there to get that. 8ut besides thaL, just as far asthe tax queslion goes, I still try to understand this idea that taxes, you have to have industrial for taxes and all this. I've lived in quit.e a fewplaces in my life and I've Iived in communities uhere there r.las just abou! no industrial , no commercial and it had 1O times the service as Chanhassen has at much ]oaer tax rates. So I don't believe that there's thisguarantee that by having industrial,/commercial you can guarantee me Lhat that's the only way we're going to be able to have schools for our kids andaIl. this other stuff. AlLhough I'd love you to prove that to me 'sometime Iguess. The olher thing is, I have nothing against the Fleet Farm inpariicular. I'm just wondering and I uant to bring up the point of you've developeC this downtown. I know you know thi.s but maybe some other people d..;n't, You've developed this downtown commercial area and nou you're specuia'.ing on maybe putling it way out there. That may end up killing dcuntourn and you may have one of those communities down the road where all c.f a sudden you have a dead dountoun because everyone's running off to ECen Prairie and out to the edge over here to shop. I want that to be considered and then the final thing which I'I1 leave on is, could you jus! take one minute to teII me about this Het Council. It seems like Chanhassen is beholden to the l,'iet Council. Bill l,til1er: t,ihat I want to beholder, to the Met Council? know is why. I mean is Rochesler, Hinnesota Batzlir Nc. B: I I f.1i I I er : I mean give me the parameters of why because a Iot of what ue're doing is assuming Lha! there and lhen I hran! to know does Chanhassen have Council or do any of us have any say? just so there's someo ne I u nder sta nd somebody out on the Met Krauss: My version of it. Erhart: or Jim, do you Hant to tell us? Eatzli: It takes more Lhan a minute. Erhart: BiII, the question on the Met Council is one I always enjov. Every answer's a little bit different too buL Paul , uould you handle that one. \ .Jim Curry: I jus! wanted to say something about hour that Lake Ann fnterceptor sewer came about because I thought I was going to be urith even Less hair than I have nou by the time the thing got done. I'm Jim curry. I've orned Iand here since 1958 but anyulay, hearings. tJe had to make a special multi-million dollar ]oan from First Bank St. Paul I recall !o get '-he sewer to do Chan Lakes Business Park because that's how that got done. ,,Je couLdn'! wait for the Lake Ann Interceptor sewer because it was laking Planning Commission June 5, 7990 - Page Heet i ng 42 forever. If we hadn't taken the bull by the horns, which then became apart of the interceptor system later on, that wouldn't have got done.Fiearings? You bet. This was not just. out of the back of somebody's pocket done. IL u,as done after multitudinous thought. In fac! it uas years after -the Chan Lakes Business Park got going that the Interceptor seler got donebut that was planned. It's part of the entire plan of the City of Chanhassen. It's not just something that came out of the blue and this was -during the Iate 7O's and 8O's. A lot of people here were still in hish school or less. Me, I had lots of Long black hair. I u,las quite a good Iooking devil in those days. Thank you. Erhart: Thank you Ji.m. PauI , could you address BiII's question about who's Met Council briefly r'r-6uss: State ]aw I believe in the early 70 's was changed to create the MetropoLiLan Council uhich has authority to oversee certain functions inthe seven county metro region. The Council itself is appointed. I don't knoir urho they're appoinLed by. The Governor. We do have a representative,liarcy l"iaritz who's very active on our behalf. She lives in Chanhassen. The Metro Council has aulhority. First of aII, you're mandated to have comprehensive plans. You can't elect not to. You have to have them. you can't- move MUSA Iines without having a comprehensive plan that backs upy'o-r re).ocation of the HUSA line. The tletropolitan Council usesconp;eherrsive plans to ensure Lhat there's not leap frog development. Toensure that regional facilities that they interac! and control with other agenc ies are built in advance Lo support development or conversely withCrawn to prevent deveJ.opment from occurring in areas that areinappropriate. They do have the authority to approve, reject or requirechanges in your comprehensive plan. They can be very tough to deal wjth e:rd over t-he years Chanhassen's relationship with them has not been ideal .Hopefuily we're moving into some better ground with that and can have moreproductive relationship but they do have a Iot of authority. They do : nteract with MIICC to build the sewer lines. They do interact with HnDotto builC the highways. Highway 5 is not being built to four lanes west of o'owntor.ln at this point because the Metro Council objected to it. They'vesince changed their position and hopefully Lhat last segment can be builtbut that's the kind of authority they exercise. Erhart: Again to repeat, I think our relationship wiLh t,tet Council overthe years hasn't been exactly real warm. It's Like big brother tel.l.inglittle sister what Lo do all the time. I think one of the things thatL,e're lrying to do in expanding the l,tUSA line is to get some moreflexibility in trhat happens to our City instead of always havi.ng MeLCouncil dictate parcel by parce] and street by street what goes on. But on-the oLher hand, anybody is encouraged to contact Harcy, our represenlativeon the Met council and to get involved. r think we'd certainly welcome itin the planning staff and commission so again, I,d like to hear some morepeople that has property up in this area and live up in this area. your comr,ents about Lhe various different plans He're talking about. Come on UP. ai Ed Ryan: I figure I should talk. I'm sort of neu at this here. Let me slroi,r you uhere we're at. Planning Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 43 Erhart: And your name? Ed Ryan: Ed Ryan. l.le're al 6730 Galpin. Sort of in this slot in here and I think our property abuls your property on the back here. tle've beenhere not too long. 2 years. About the same number of years as yourself and when Hary and I had bought the property e,e really looked at it forpurposes of relaxation and openness and just good family life. t,e have abis f ar,i Iy . tje en joy the area a great deal . t,lhen this interceptor wentin, we cjidn't really have much to say about it and it sort of went in youknow. I wouldn't say against our wishes necessarily but iL uent in andthere's an assessment now per acre on it and it's going to come down andit's just a question of urhen in terms of our view. And when Eric came arounC wjth the petition initially Mary and I both felt pretty good aboutthe petition and ue signed it because we felt Lhat Lhe petition i,rould.:--,itivate *.his openness and growth and control . But ue also didn't realizetha: it would excLude us from the MUSA extension and when Mary and I talked about. it, we felt that we wanted to have the option since the fnterceptoris there and the assessment is coming so those are my thoughts. Bob Christensen: Could you explain that littLe yellow line right to the micidle of the urhiLe on Lhe HUSA line area on Lhe north side of Lake Lucy? Krauss: Oh, that's Lake Lucy Highlands subdivision. It's goL color- because of that py e- 1987 designation. It h,as under thaL c:'dirance that allowed 2 f/2 acre lots without sewer. a di ffer ent pr e-87 B.,b Christensen: f'm Bob Christensen and I live on the Lake Lucy. This isyellow part? Krauss: It's the Iight yellow: Yeah. Risht. That's Lake Lucy Highlands. tsch Christensen: t^Jhy is that any different? Krauss: Because it was platted. Unlike a1l the other property lhat's in r.rhite , it uras plaLted aL 2 l/2 acre zoning. [.le've shown thaL designation on the 2l/2 acye plat and if you had the larger map we've shown it dor.rn with the subdivisions that uere platted under the same ordinance over bythe bluff line by the Hinnesota River as well. ft's just to indicate thefact that it was developed. ft u,as subdivided and there's going Lo be text in the plan lhat we don't expect further subdivision. tle don'! expect to have to serve it. [.le don'! expect that the utilities, the on site utilities wi.Ll have problems at any time in the near future. Bob Christensen: t.lell this little boundary of the new exclusion to Lhe MUSA line extension? Does that mean that nobody in that area, if this is accept.ed, can get sewer inside of that area? 4 hre.'rs: Paul , maybe you thaL means to be outside could talk about that a little bit more. tlhat the MUSA line. Krauss: Yes, Planning Cornm i ss ion June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 44 Krauss: tJeII again, it boils down to the fact that the only way the City can run local sewer lines to a property is to have it within the MUSA line. [Je just do not have the aulhority to do it, even if we wanted to. Bob ChrisLensen: But the only problem is, my dream has been to divide lowintensity or urhatever lots and I didn't sign that petition and I've got anexclusion in mine that I want to develop a certain part of it. Now all ofa sudden my hopes and dreams are shot if this is gone through. Bob Christensen: Yeah but Paul saidjagged Iines through there. that they do not want variations and Bob oJts Bob, a5ristensen: t,e]1, I'm getting railroaded into something that I don't i.oi^,i any part of I think. Frhar"": ft's clear lhat you're not on that petition and your land isidentified i believe as not being on that petition. ciris*'ensen:But r^rill MUSA all.ow all these meanderings and ins and E:hart: Nc. Ecb ihristensen: tlell then I in if this goes through. Or I'm out. decide. l,Je're looking for people to tel I why we appreciate. 'd better get a petition going. versus the second you're saying? Ii] f r- ha r t ; l-hat 's what r,rs r.,hat Lheir ideas ure 've got toare. That's Bc5 Chri.stensen: tJelI I Lhink I Ellson: You like the first 'plan Bob Chris:ensen: I like Lhe first plan. Erhart: Okay. You want to be in the MUSA ]ine. Bo5 Christensen: Isn't there any ulay, urhy does it have to be so large?Can't the MUSA exclusion be say Lake Lucy Highlands or whaLever it is? The-people that have already got functional drainfields and their ourn sewer 5/sL='rl r.h6rt-: [.]e're looking at thaL. There n,ay be some a]lernalives but at thisFoir,i Lonight uie're just trying to get a feel for what the people in the6rea llant. t e're going to be working on this all summer, paul? l(r'3,r;.*; If I could address that. tjhen ue f irsL gol intc this ure Iooked a.-ths possibility of creating a Iittle donut hole in the MUSA around Eric Rivkin: Your lot's out of there. I drew your lot out of there. Eric Pivkin: f also said, I need to clarify what I've t,ritten to you and what the petition really said. There's a lot of mi sunderstandi n9 going back and forth here... Planning Commission June 6, 199C - Page Heet i ng 45 -imberwood and ultimately after talking to Eric, around Lake Lucy Highlandsrealizing that it's the same. t^le found out that xe couldn't do that. tJefound out that you had to do it in some uay that was comprehensive andreasonable and made sense. Lacking that, trhat r.re did is we designated Lake Lucy Highlands and Ti.mberurood and all the other 2 7/2 acresubdivisions a low lot residential designation and there's text in theplan, or there wiII be text in the plan that is very explicit that these6reas 6re expected to remain that way inside or outside the MUSA. There'sno antici.pation that tha!'s going to change. There's a concern that thatmight not go far enough I guess and hence the petition to completely beexcluded from the HUSA ]ine and that's what we're trying to react totonight. 5cb Ch:'istensen: tlould a counter petition prove anything? E;har".: Sure. tlel.come it. You've got a quick question Eric? Comme:iL? Eric Rivkin: could I get up and explain some things before I make enemiesout of ;ry r,ei.ghbors that I don't really uant to make enemies out of?I i.;ould like to present at least a little past history of what's gcne onhere so the people understand why... Erhart: Can you do it in 2 minutes? lric Rivkin: f hope so. Erhart : liel I it's getting late - I 'Il i'oir i,,rant to explain what your petition t he r*or k you 've done . have to cut you off in 2 minutes. Ifis because of lot of this is around -:'ic F.ivkin: I hrote to the City that I wish there were some uJay toinciude you, Mr. Christensen, Mr. Phillips and Mr. Ryan. In r^rriLing to theC-t7 that there was some Hay the plan could accommodate their wishes. Itried n'r best t,f, draw the Iine around the areas that uJere indicated tritl-Ir,t5e petitior.. The people that I canvased, I made clear to them what PauI hacl toid me. What the consequences uere of being within Lhe MUSA andwithout the HUSA Line. I couldn't contact, I Has not able to get everybodycontacted. I tried several times to get you but f couldn't. I did contacti{r. Rya;r and Mr. Phillips though and I did try to get you to try andexplain iL to you and I apolosize if I didn't. I also would like to knoi,r,if there's some uay in plans to present some solutions here. Could theirproperties be drawn out of the MUSA .nou but Iater r,lhen le!'s say this agreerirent r,iith the Metropolitan Council is up in the year 2OOO it could be reconsidered to maybe bump them in or is it possible that 10-20 years from ncx that it's 2 7/2 acye r.iith sewer would come back and accommodate them because originally, the original petiLion, I'm just going to read you thefirst sentence. It says we the undersigned petition the City to.eCesignate the Iand indicated on the attached map from low densityr::.idar,tial , no ser,ler service to residential large lot zoning uhich is a o ', t'2 acre minimum if the MUSA line moves out. So we were assuming that we t:oul.d be within MUSA and what were our options t^rithin the MUSA and PauI can,e ba;k and told me, after the last presentation that we could not have a dcnut hoLe. So I tried to draw it as though there weren't a donut hole the Planni ng Commission June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng 46 trest r.ay I could and I'm not trying to make enemies out of any of my neighbors here and I apologize if there are any drawn lines that uere drawn!\,rcng. I did the best I could with the map that I had but the point isthat the long term development of the majority of the people that wanted tobe in this reflect what this map shows. A majority. And there are 3people thaL r.re heard from I knew did noL, and I did indicaLe on thepetition Bob that you wanted out of the sewer. That you want to be in the seurer district, excuse me and that Hr. phillips did and that l,lr. Ryan did.I did indicate that in r^rriting. Okay, I did not leave you, exclude yo.J outor real your mind okay? Erhart: Thanks Eric. Don't feel bad. I did a petition one time too and ended up, found the same thing. f! look a lot of years to mend some neighbor's feelings. But on the oLher hand petitions are good and come onup, .i-rC they're important to get people into this place and give the Citytheir ideas so we don't hear later on well nobody knew anything. So go a hea cl sir . E.ha-t: Thank you. Someone new with t.he hat Lhere. Tec Ccey: Hy name is Ted Coey. I'm on Lake Lucy Road also and there's ac;upLe thirgs that I don't know if you guys were involved i.n this but onthe interceptor tha! was something, I've lived on Lake Lucy Road nou,t for 7 -years and that Has something that lhere was a lot of discussions, a lot of meetings on that and the people that lived in the area generatly did not want that inLerceptor. That was put in and He Here told iL was put in because they needed to connect the region south of us with the region norlh- and that ilas the whole reason. tle did not have a choice and ute uere told!ha', that xasn't going to be used per se for that area. It was being usedby the PeoPle that h,ere north that were having trouble urith an overflow and-they had to divert lhat sewage south. That's b,,hat they sold us. Doesanybody remember that? That uras t'he package you sold us. So I moved hereand '.hey lold us we wouldn't have an assessment on tha! thins until atI:asi the year 2OOO. I got that in writing somewhere and'f ,i not about to - Day, i 've go+- 20 acres on Lake Lucy at the far east and I have no inlentionof developing. I moved here and bought 30 acres. Sold Lwo 5 acre parcelsoff t i-. Brian and Joe. I mean I'm not interested in having another bunch of-ho:seg all around me okay and I think that you guys keep forgetting thatthere are people who live here and who moved here for specific reasons and AI flaivey, 1430 Lake Lucy Road: tJe had a sewer failure this winter so we have p.etitioned and we are going Lo get seuJer at the cost of $36,000.00 t.a c,-.i j- pl'operty this year . It then, if this extension is not gone beyond our p-cF,€r+-y, it makes it a pretty expensive drainf ield. [^le've been told Lhat I! cc-:Lc.l probably, uhen the extension goes through, ther we could deveLop. l.'l.ere r.:e're at right now the extension merely takes care of the one ;.op"rLy that we have. tle've ]ived out here 25 years. We've enjoyed it.:'. has changed drastically the last couple three years and this is going to l-aF.pen but I wculd like the possibility of developing before I'm 75 years cld '-oo an.j so ue would like, ue have 11 acres up there and f urould like to 9., c:r record tha! being that we're having it extended to take care of ou:"jn:r,aJiaLe problem, I would Iike hopefully r.rithin a yeay or tuo to have.tha'-c:tion. So I r.:ould go on record in favor of it. Planning Commission June 6, 199c - Page Meet i ng 47 you're letting outsiders come in and do what they u,ant to do and not listento the people who have been here. I've been in Chanhassen for 14 years andi'm getting tired of people coming up and telling me uhat they want to do anC they're outsiders. Not^t the Planning Commission and the people on theCity Council should listen to the people xho are here. And the last coupleelections you'II notice the City Cor-rncil is kind of all different. That's because the pecple haven't been real excited about xhat the other people i,,re ' e doi ng . I thi nk you should get the message okay and the exact samething happened on the stree!. On Lake Lucy Road- l.le di.dn't want the highway through there either. l,!e didn't have a choice. They forced it on us and I don't know why you keep bringing up the fact. I don't knor^r who does it. If it's the City or if it's the Planning Commission, keeps coming up with the idea that they have to use the interceptor- It's being used.A.e:,'t I right? Isn't the thing being used? IL isn't sitting Lhere vacantis j.'-? I rean thaL's what you're trying, that's what the people here thinktr-,.t it'e not being used at aII. IL is being used. It's connecting the ;r.:-t-h a:.rd the south. That's why it was put in so r,rhy do we have to develop '.1-,a 1- iand just on the idea that t^re have to use interceptor , It's bei ng ',;seJ already. Er lra rt : Good poi nt . 1'o,-ii land gets put inc: dc an'lthing, Just another clarificationthe HUSA Iine doesn't force again you is thaL just to subdivide, because deve i op .i+,)Coey: No, but i! makes you pay part of the inLerceplor fee wouldn't E-ha-t: No. Paul ? K!-auss: tJeLl, unfortunately Gary left and he couldn't talk to you anyway but 3 years ago when the inLerceptor {^,as put in, aII the properEies that *+re in lhe flowage for the interceptor were, there was a Pending aE'sessfiienl placed against all the ProPer.ties arfd I think it r.ras $43O.OO an acr* anci thai was placed on them knowing full well that they uere outside :he iIUSA Iine at that point. That didn't enLer into it but it was reserving the opportunity to use the thing in the future. Nol., rightly, r^r:'ong).y that was an action by a City Council 3 years ago and the monev was erpended. Those assessments haven't been levied yet. In talking to the City I'.'ianager, it's my understanding that they'Il'probablv attemPt to levv therr in the next year or tb,o but thaL goes through some more public hearinss if and when Lhat haPPens. That's comPletelv outside the issue of whether or not the HUSA line is moved at this point- This is something lhaL was done 3 years ago. Ted Coey: [.,e were told that ue wouldn't Tl-.at's what they told us urhen they Put it pay until the year 2OOO. mean I was there. per acre and the issueErhar-t: This is a one time assessment of is, L.ihen exactly do you have to pay that. have to in. I 18430 . OO 'i:al,rs: Again, in talking to the City Hanager who's ;..:er--: , it i.Jas a pending assessment tha! Has going to been here be levied for 77 a ga i nsr- the prcperties, In fac! in his uords that he thought it was going to belast year .' Erhart: t,ihelher or not they put in a }'1USA line or not doesn't have a bear i ng? Krauss: Yes . Erhart: Does have a bearing or doesn'L have a bearing? l^1i lclermuth: The Met Council? tlho levies? Krauss: It's the City. These are funds that the City expended. flhart: Dc you see that there's a connection betuieen putLing in the .l i r,e a nC 131u yi ng that assessment? I evieC Krauss: In my discu.ssions trith the City i,ras somethi ng that happened long bef ore ,r: locate the MUSA - Manager, no I don't. I mean tha.- before the process was started to 3:h3-*.; Okay. t,lelI I think that's a good issue and beyond your commentshere, talk to your councilmen about that so. PasLor Pike? t;wan Pike: Has there been any ihat- are going to be inside the studies on what the HUSA Iine when that property values wi I I do happens? Erhart: Dici you say studies? Bryan Pike: Do you have any idea what the property values r.lill do once:hey're placed inside the HUSA line? Er-l-,art: I believe they'11 90 up. Krauss: Go up. JIn UUrry: have a IoL Resident: MUSA line They '11 go here and I up. Absolutely. I had 2,OOO acres can speak from experience. That's iniL.Eagan and I They go up. If this HUSA line assessment,including south of TH 5? is this true of all lhe proposed Krauss: No. It isn't and in fact i! does not go dounbecause you were not in Lhe original flowage for that.to your neighbor hood - Boots Christensen: l,ly name is Boots Christensen, I Live on Lake LucyRoad. L.,ie moved in 10 years ago and from information from our neighbor weh;ere tol.d tha! 20 years ago they ulere told r.rithin 10 years they wourd have seider - 10 years ago uhen ue moved in they tord us within 10 years we r^rillhatre seurer. so when t^re did buy and with thoushts of the future and our age-in consideration there with retirement, {4e thought of fulure developmentNiLh sei.ier . so of course ule wanted to be excluded to a poin!. t^!e havehigh :'egard for the lake and for good decent subdivision r"rhen the time Planning Commissi.on Meeting Jun€ 5, 7990 - Page 48 o.Lanning Comm ission June 6, 7990 - Page Meet i ng 49 comes t. suit the land but to also suit our future. the pet i ti on?Erha:-t: Okay. l.lere you on Boots Chr istensen: No. E:-ha;'t: And your first name was? Boots Chr isLensen: Ethelyn Christensen. Erhartr Okay, Thank you for your comments. Sir. Erhar-:; Ckay, thank you. lot, Chr'iste;rsen: I'd better ge! lhat anti-petition goin9. Erha.t: Some people on p+'. i tion . Just because exc I uded from coming up b.a<. ir !here, come on up. petition have any comments? That signed the signed the petition doesn't mean you're telling us r,lhat )zour feelings are. Someone Lhe you and ilar k llali nourski: I have a question about something other than Lake Lucy.I hacl talked to the, my name is Hark HaLinowski on 7250 Minnebrashta Parkway a.rrr-l I5ad talked Lo someone at the Chanhassen City HaII yesterday and f askeci them if there uras any properties that were targeted for parks in the a'-ea and r was basically told no there weren't. Prior to buying myproperty arrd let me point it out here. This is the property right through he :-e. Prior to buying that I talked to Jo Ann Olsen and you know basically asl:eC if I Has able to build on that property should I choose to and the cc{iiner-rt r.jas, uje].l if you want to find that out you need to buy the property r,rhich I did. f guess my question is, uhat does Lhat mean? That green. Is it a zoni ng? Kraussr f guess I'd like t-lark to explain. l'lark's most familiar with the recreat ion element . Koegler: The recreation section of the Plan sPeaks for the need for acjditional park facililies in that Part of town. As you're weII aware, f d,:n't know if you live in that area right noH or if you just plan to build, There have been petition drives by the neighbors for residents in park facjlities. The area around Lake St. Joe has long been targeted as a possible area for either just passive open sPace or iust under Private oxnership or potentially as a city park- t^then lhat line was drawn and !ha+- Iine;ras clraurn some time ago, I think it predated by a long shot the ;ur-chase of your parlicular site. The line was generally draun because the ;,ri 1 crrrditions are fairly moisL in a lot of thaE area appareirtly not right i,!i.re you are. ALl I can tell you is lhat we'd be glad to take a look ai :'- *ith you and if your property is a residential ProPerty and buildable, there's no reason i! needs to be designated green. f.iarv anC Judy Jani.c: l"le Iive aL 7O2L Galpin. trle back up against Prince'sproperty lhere. I've got an orchard there. Another 6 fee! of drainfield anrj f could have hooked up to the sewer and I don't t"tant to be excluded frcm the sewer line and now f am. Planning Commission .Iune 6, 1,990 - Page Heet i ng 50 Ma-* k Malinowski: Yes. I wouLd like, I think we need to do thatfeel I've been misinformed as of 2 days ago basically uhen I was Clicago realLy tonight buL I thought j.t'd be in my best interestthis meeting. Obviously you can see why I might have a concern. Irha;*.: ckay, oLher than Eric for the no development scenario, we had a lot of speakers on Lhat and I think we as a group here, if I speak {or them, would like to hear some more comments on that, because f Lo be in to attend haven 't can Koegler: As I referenced with my commenLs on the green space surrounding Lake Ann, that's someuhat a similar situaEion. It's representative right now on the plan of a desire to have park and open space in that facility.it's not meant to imply necessarily thaE your property would be taken forthat purpose so maybe you can provide me with some information on the boundaries or we can get Logether and talk about that and He'll look at a change on Lhat. Us,- ne Poppe: Just a real quick comment, t'1y name is tlayne Poppe. I live ati95c Crestvier.r Circle which for reference purposes here, f 'Il jus! give you- an idea of where we're at. I guess I don't knou where this endssoecirically. I am seemingly above that. I guess the problem I have withthis a:-,,j just looking aL it. I don't knora much about Lhe Met Council butf 've gct a hard time believing that they're going to look at this hole inihe midcjle of a MUSA and think Lhis one's goi.ng to... I recall some of the cor..vei-sations they had about this coming through and basically what we L,ere'-oL,i ther is that it's outside the HUSA which is uhy u:e couldn't be hooked - up to it. So no!,, it looks to me Iike you're trying to i nclude it in the i'1L,SA unli: ure get this. ihat's really aII coming to a head. It seems, itlocks iike a donut to me. Erha:-t: Okay, thank you. Joe, did you have something? ;f,e i4ori.yr: iiy name is Joe Morin. I live next Lo Ted Coey up here on LakeL,:cy Road and i guess my feelings are that this area here can accommodatepeopLe who want to be in the MUSA }ine- t^lho bought in that area for thepurpose of development- I didn't buy for Lhe purpose of development.I bought in this area to live here. Listen to the loons and enjoy natureand ;'aise a family. I don't u,ant my property values to go up. Okay. Idon't want to be taxed at a higher rate and I don't b,ant to have to payspecial assessments for services I,ll never use. That's all f have to say. Er hart : Thanks Joe. Ted Coey: I feel the have 2O acres there.Live next to Joe... but I definitely, ido not t{ant seuer and uaLer. same way. II positively Erhart: And your name is? ied Coey: Ted Coey. Nancy -iichy: f'm Nancyi diC sign lhe peLition Iive next to Joe we feel Lhe same Ted and Brian andthat Ted and Joe ano -I gu ess and ulay Tichy and I Piarning Commission -'Iune 6, 199C - Page Heet i ng 51 feel about this. We moved out in this area. [.le've ]ived here for and ue have 5 acres - Ue bought the properLy u,ith no intentions insubdividing and to develop and again, bre don't want to be assessedpotenlial of having seurer. tle like it the Hay iL is and that's why bought the property. 6 years for the we Er-hart: Thank you. Jim - i.la-- t: Thanks .lim. Other comments? .fin; Curry: I just want to add one thins. I r.ratched this Met Council eversince iL was founded. I've been at this a uhile. The very purpose of the Met Council, the number one purpose I believe, besides overa.Il pl.anning, !,jas Lo prevent these donut holes ue're talking about. You can't do that and do urhat the I'iet Council is supposed to do namely to make an efficient, stead;., gradual movement of the sewer availability. As soon as you start breaki.ng it up, you're defeating the very purpose of the Council. He can'tquite say that because he's City and he's not supposed Lo know about thatb'rt I cari say that. You guys up there on the Planning Commission and Council level, you have to decide Lo 9o all or go none. I mean go as farar yor., go but go soLid. That in general the only way I undersland lhat t-he', funcLion. I've watched this in other cities and it would be nice I -=lppcsed if "'hey could bu! that gets auay f rom the very purpose that i.t's s6t- Lrp to do. The purpose is overall planning, IL's unfortunately not to accornncdate each individual. as an individual . A1I of us have to live withLhis sort of thing at times in life. PoIice protection. Fire protection.r.' :nstence a]l this sort of thing. The purpose of it is to make the :-e..€: j.nE of America efficient, at least in the 7 county area...this is.c.:-air' to public policy. I really believe that strongly. I feel for thep,....;;l=. I really do but the fact is they're not going to approve it- F:esident; ;'d like to ask Hr. Krauss if he knows of any donuts in any o".he,* ciLy or tou:nship? Lr-auss: No. I have never seen one. I guess I've been fortunate in the 15, ',-'ears, I've always worked urithin communities that uere entirely within the MUSA so the issue didn't come up and I'm familiar with most of the otherplanners in the Tuin Cities. No. The line usually moves in a uniform m6nner up to a street or a railroad that makes some kind of sense, ResidenL: So this Uould be precedence. Krauss: It'd probably be different. I mean you look at the HUSA Line as it i,rinds up over the years and it does dink around aII over the Place because you have failing sewers here or something that you need to bring ln on an emergency basis. You look at it on a regional maP and it does look llxe it's not the straishlest thins but when you look at it on a community basis, conrmunity by community, it is a relalively sLraight and uniform Bob Chrislensen: I'd just like to comment. seeiris L i ke these people want no Part of the They're realIy living in a, I don'! know, a Progress marches on and it surrounding development . fairy Jand because you've got Planning Comm ission June 6, 1990 - Page Heet i ng<) ".o develop and people are moving in and if you NanL to be aloneyourself, go to Honlana but I Lh.ink Lhis uill be developed very1/2 acre lots but Let them have their sewer and le! it deveLop. by nicely at 2 Eric Rivkin: That's what I said originally 8ob - That's r.lhat the originalpetition. Le!'s have 2 7/2 acre loLe- Let's have seuer and the Plannins -Department came back and said you can't have this. This is the original map that I received from the Planning Department. It's obsolete now bu!thi.s is the donut hole that the Met Council doesn't allow. If I understandthe definilion of a donut hole, you've got to have a complele surround of a-serviced area wiLh a non-serviced area in Lhe middle of iL. tjhat I Lriedto do here is propose sornething that isn't a hole. This isn'L a donuthole. There's a Iot of jiss and jags even in Lhe oLher proposals and even -'-he original one way back and I don't think that it really meets the +L^ Er hart : C Ci'T CC: r.;or d i. -, ig you 're f.ie'- pct ion of a donut hole and I do think that that is very acceptable to Counci.L as a concept. I think the petitioners would, a majority of_itioners wiLhin that...would agree ulith that. I me of thifth hiir t ink one thing that we did specificalLyf'm urrong Paul uas that ree basically,e ordinance that if you're on a septics HUSA Iine, that specifically are noL change , and Eric are putting into the system, even thoughgoing to require you to and He're writing tha thook up at any time unless there's a total failurein so that's correct righL? K:-auss: That's the way the ordinance reads right nouJ, ThatLo hook in unless it fails or unless it's within 15O feet ofunless you want to subdivide basically. you don 'tyour house have or li;ncy Tichv: BuL are you assessed for lhe potential? If you're within the- HUSA line and you have, okay we have 6 acres, would ue be assessed for likeif it were guarLer acre assessments, that we could develop or something I i ke that? Krsuss: Okay, there's two kinds of assessments here and that's where i!gets kind of confusing. There's a trunk charge and Lhat trunk charge iswhat the City Council levied as a pending assessment 3 years ago, Thetrunk charge is the cost or a share of th6 cost to get that l'letropolitaninterceptor in the ground. That doesn't arlow us to use it and it doesn'tpay for anything to hook up. If you developed your property, you would pay-lateral costs, well Eric's aware of this because Eric has been through lhisbefore when he split his property in Minnetonka but when you develop yourproperty you bring sewbr, water, streets in up to the property and intoeach lot and that's just something that ),,ou has a developer in that caseuould pay for and those costs are distributed against each lot. The trunkcharge is something again that h,as done 3 years ago but no, you r.rould nothave any, well you would not have any particular assessments against yourproperty unless you develop. Nor.t there is a chance and I can'i tell yo,thaL you wouLd never be invorved in an assessmen! hearing because, a citycouncii uoul.d revieu:. l.JeII let's give an exampre. rf you were dor.rn thesti-eet and somebody passed you on the street wanted to develop and theser'rer Has on the other side. rt would be brought in front of your propertyto sb:-ve that property, rn chanhassen development is asked to pay it's own_ Planning Commission June 5, t99C - Page Heet i ng r.;;y but the developer may come back to the CiLy and say I !^,a nt you to dotha! as a public project. The City Council uould then hold public hearingefor whoever would benefit by it because they potentially would be issessedby it. Theoretically the City Council could determine that you should be assessed because you have benefit that in the future you could .hook up toLhis local Iine. Realistically City Councils find it extremely diff icul',to place assessments against individuals. uho aren't going to be developing and ihen reaping any benefits. Typically uhat they like to do is Lhroq it back at the developer and say either you pay for it or it's not going tohappen. Or Lhey figure out some Hay to abate the assessments until suchtime that you do decide to split up your property and then it's assessed. Icouldn't tell you it would never happen but that's typically the way it does happen. Eric Rivliin: Nhat about county assessments? The eventua] hook up? Kiauss: That's not, an assessment. That's taxes. E:-ic Rivkin: That's special assessments. f know from past hislory and I'dlike to address Lhis in Chanhassen by itself. f 've observed in many townsin this area that if you have the potential , if you run a seu,er Line acrossyour property and you're not using it yet, you may be assessed. The valueof ycur property would be increased because the potential for development, etren t-hough you may have no inLention of developing and that's kind of, is +-l-,at Lrue here? Erhart: Exbuse me Paul. Can everybody hear PauL okay back there? Krauss: r guess it is fundamentally Eric what you're saying is true with tha"- 'erunk assessment. The City Council went through a lot of meetings and discussions on it before putting in the interceptor and decided that th6t shi,.:ld be put- in. The cost should be levied back against the benefitting i: cperties who in the future, at some point in the future urould have the right to access lhat inteyceptor. That's the onLy time where it's kind of pending in the future, Lateral assessments don't urork that way. Lateral assessments say you have to have some immediate benefit and unless you're using it, you typically don't- Eric Rivkin: But if you're running it just for the public benefit... developer's got to pay anyr^,ay. Isn't it true that they have !o hook withi.n a certain period of time and now they're assessed even though didn't want it. tha! uP t hey Krauss: If a sewer is run through somebody's property, it's within 15o feet of your house is the way the ordinance reads, you have a certainperiod of time to hook up and then you are assessed for it. But agai.n, l;hat you're doing, you know the City Council is confronLed with a bunch of argry' people who don't hran! !o pay that. They say they don't need it now, Their on site sewer system is perfectly fine. Again, it's a political p:-ocess, It's very tough for a City Council to force people Lo PaY assessroents when they're not going to get an immediate benefit by it. I don't say it doesn'! ever happen but it's very tough. Planni.ng Commission .lu:re 6, 799O - Page Heet i ng 54 Ted Coey:potential here . . - . . .get away saying that. l.Je were there. tle're sluck r^rith the assessment and that's not fair for Lhe people uho have been Erhar-t: I'd suggest again getting inLo assessments is not specifically wha-- we're dealing with here buL I would suggest given that that is aninLegral r,riLh what ue're doing here, Lhat you start out by b,riting a letterio the Mayor and City Manager. If you basicaLly feel that something wasLoId to you. Get it in here in r.rriting and follow up with the Citycouncil, r believe the city council directly addresses assessmenL issues - Krauss: Oh yes Ted Coey: tjell it sounds to me like if they're putting the MUSA linefarLher west, that that's when Lhey Hould try to...charging us, Nou he's =;ving that's not the, lhe issues aren't connected but it sure sounds awful-suspicious that it's kind of coming at the same Lime r^re're talking aboutthis and before it was something they said this isn,t going to happenLecause you guys aren't going to get sewer here until at least the year 2C0O and that's the problem we're having is that when you move out here,t'.\ey say one thing. They told me at least the year 2OOO €nd now we,reta).king i99O. It's kind of like hor"r do you believe anybody_ Erhart: I think in defense. The City at that time I don,texpected development that b,e've seen here in the last 3 or Ted Coey: But that's why ue moved here- I don't want it to think anyboCyyears either. deve lop . that's why IErhart: Yeah, f understand that but then things change andsay, nothing gets poured in concrete in governmenL. Ted Coey: I realize that. Erhar!: So I think one of the things that staff is so careful about tryingto teli people you know brhat they can do and what they can expect andsometimes we go overboard not trving to terl or not trying to give peopleideas about r.Jhat to expect. It's a tough position to be in. Ted Coey: That's what happened with the trunk. That's ruhat happened withthis r^rhole trunk. tle t.rere aII mad as hell they urere putting the thing inand we didn't want it but they xere just going to...and they promised ustha'- uie i.rouldn't have to pay until the year 2OOO aL leasL and now you're saying lhey're thinking about assessing it next year. tlhat kind of basisdo you guys give us for believing anything you say? K.'auss: You know I guess it's tough for me to respond to something when I uJasi-,'t there but the information I get. . . (:-auss: If you'd like that issue to be addressed, I think first of allit's an issue for the City Council to address. Secondly, u,e can get theC:t'z l4anager to respond directly to it. Planning Commission .lune 6., 199A - Page HeeL i ng Br.ett Davidson: ,,.I have 13 acres just south of Prince's proper'ly there. i talked to my neighbors across the street, Stockdales, they have about 15or 20 and also Songs have about 20 or 30 just to the, 1AO? L,est and we all"feel like we all moved out there for the open spaces and we moved ouL there because we like the natural landscape and all but ue also understand thatprogress is going to happen and ue've aII three talked about it and rae all kncr.r that lhere's disadvantages with the. MUSA line moving out. We also think there's advantages and we think the advantages far outt*eigh so ourpcint is, if you do do somethine ]ike this donut hole, please don't ext6ndit any further south or any further &sest because we like being in the MUSA Iine so that's about 140 or 15O acres there. Hy border line is the red MUSA " That's why I say, if they do something as absurb as a donut hole,don't bring .it any further south. 5r'har-t: Ed, have you got someLhing? Erhart: Thanks Ed. Joe? Eci Hasek: Yeah, iust quickly. My narne is Ed Hasek. I live aL 6570Kirkwood. I live on the wqst side of MinneuashLa. For all practical purp.,\ses considered Vicloria in this city. Just in thinkins, people at one poin'.- i-,r Linre moved from Hinneapolis to Lake Calhoun and Lake of the Islesio live on an estate. AL one point in time people moved from Lake Calhountc Hopkins to live on an esLate- People are now moving out of Minnetorrka '-o cai-ver to aII kinds of places to live on an estate. Chanhassen is inthe Na',' of development. IL's going to happen and to Lhink that your estate ls going to be there forever is absurb. It's absurb to think that it's -.;oing to stay Lhat Hay. It seems to me that if you wanL to live on Lo,20,3c,40 acres of land and be on an estate, that it's maybe time to lhink ab:,ut moving to the next area which isn't in the uay of developrnent. Thank you. -'ioe l,1or i n: Yeah , f moved to this area , ' Chanhassen pr imar i Iy because I Ci.Cn't think Eden Prairie uas really sensitive to the needs of the lardowners in lhe way lhey developed. okay? And that's all ue're asking. iie'i-e not asking for hundreds of acres in estates. tje're jusL asking that our needs and concerns are being heard. Erhart: Eric, you had something else? Eric Rivkin: Yeah...because of develoPment like this. You have land with huge assessmen! $3O,OOO -OO-!$4O,OOO -OO for a 2O acre ParceI and you're out of here. Some people. . .!E5,OOO.oo assessment. That's unfair . They've been here 7, 10,20 years. tjhy is that fair and why don't ue have a right to ljve the h,ay uie wan! to live? As long as we're here and all ure're asking for are some guarantees. t"lhen I originated this petition I didn't say we wanted to be oui of the HUSA. AII I said u,as we'd ]ike some guarantees that u,e would like some stability that u,e're not going to be guaranteed '"ha', r^Je won'L be assessed for things lhat we don't use. That we're going t: be guaranteed that t.,e're not going...because of a huge ProPerty value increase because of a potentiat for develoPment. Those things haPPen when you're iricluded in the MUSA boundary and everybody knew that and that-'s whv tl-,ey Eigned the petition because it was...reaction, emotion abou! that' Planning Commission Meet i ng .lune 6, 1990 - Page 56 ft's no! why are you living there. ThaL'sreflection of that. I'll be the first onethaL says ure all want to develop our land and it's just a long with the major ity Lucy Highlands or uhat..-Logoa and La kewhatever... That's fine if that's r.Jhat the majorily Hants but I found inthat area the majority didn't want that. Ted Coey: t,hat scares me the worse is I think is the potential of getting - really racked up as far as the assessments and the best... Hhen you put Lake Lucy Road in, they kind of uhipped it in and they made a fe$J changesand went through, r can't remember the suy's name but he lived right on the-corner of Lake Lucy Road and CR 117 and he got assessed $27,OAO.OO for Lhepriviledge of having this road go by his property urhich he doesn't evenexit on and those are the kinds of things that the City does to you thatforce you right off your Land and that's what scares us, And that js as,car-ey t.hing and the guy was almost crying when he left. I mean he wasstuck inrith !$27,OOO.OO in assessments and he wasn't going to be able tout i. I ize it. Eric Rivkin: He fought Lhe assessment. it in court and the City lost. They couldn't levy -ed Coey: But those things scare us. Erhart: I know. I uas at that Council meeting _ t^lell I think ure hadr=i:ceLLent input from the multitude of opinions and sides on the issue.Lhink it's late and I think I'd like to close at this point and reallythank errerybody for the time they spent coming in and getting up andtaiking and we're going to have more meetings throughout the summer.watching in Lhe newspaper. The Villager I believe is our. soire Keep fir-i,..1ss: [.te're doing it in both. Erha't: tscih so keep watching for notices. rn z weeks it wirl be south ofT! 5. So thank you. Batzli moved,favor and the Submitted by Paul KraussDirecto:' of Planni ng Prepared by Nann Opheim ttildermuth seconded to adjourn the meeting. AII voted inmotion carried- The meeting r.ras adjourned at 11:10 p_m_. I.IEI,IORANDITI,I fO: Planning Conoission CITY OF TH[[IH[SSEN Planning oirector (fFROI{: DATE: SURT: Paul Krauss, June 13, 1990 Update on City Council Action, June 4 & 11 Irteetings June 4. 1990: The folrowing items were considered at this neeting: 1. A zoning ordinance Anendnent to amend sections 20-30 and 20-9o3.of the City Code pertaining. to recording of perniis anazoning rots uas given tinar r€aaing. The ordinance anEnanentcrearly defines _who is responsibre -for recording conaiiions otapproval against property titles. 2. Northuest Nursery wetland Atteration pernit for Altering ancrFilling a class B wetrand and conditi"".r - u"--pl-.if t forExpansion of a whoresale Nursery: The ci.ty ioun-ii c-Jrriurreawith the reconmendatlons of tie elannin! i"riii=.i"". ?herretland alteration peruit eas not actia upon- .i""" noalterations are being proposed at this dir. -"rra theconditional use -pernil iaj approved generally wiif, theconditions as outlined by the pl-inninq c.irr1-="i"ri. ---" 3. Site plan emend,ent Signage Review, Chanhassen professionalByirding: The clty counLri concurred with the ti"a-i"L= "r tn.Pranning coDmiasion and approved five signs on u"it "'r'""Jtio",of the building. 4. Final pLat Approval, Zinnerrnan Farns located on Dogwood Road:Final- plat approval was flnally granted for this pi"j."t. Asthe planning conmission-is anare,- access issues ""-=rritla-i" ."extensive anount ^of tine being devoted to resotvinq tlrisquestlon. The final plat doei lncrude p"""i"i""" - iB, tn"rooped rtreets and connections as defined'in . r-.-ro prlpareaby lhg planning and engineering departuenls - a".-i"q' trr.prelininary prat process. The roaai wiil "oiu. u"iit-.i tti"ElDe, Dut_ right-of-way wilr be reserved for their futureconstructlon. 690 COULTER DBIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MTNNESOTA 5531 7 (612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739 - Planning Counission June 13, 1990 Page 2 5. Preliroinary PIat Approval and Site Plan APProval for a 45,ooo sq. Ft. ExPansion to the Bxisting Pl{T Building in Chanhassen lakes Business Park: The City Council approved this project rith the conditions as outlined by the Planning Conmission. Final plat approval is etill required before building permits can be issued. June 11. 1990: At the city Council Deeting on June l1th, the follouing items vere considered: 1. wetland Alteration PeIrDit to alter a Class B Wetland south of Tanadoona Drive for ThoDas KordonoYy vas approved on the consent agenda uith the conditions as outlined by the Planning Conmission. Prelininary plat approval to subdivide 3.2 acres into 2 single fanily lots, 365 Pleasant View Road for Robert Sathre uas approved on the consent agenda with the conditions as outlined by the Ptanning Commission. The city Council approved a budget realfocation with the goal of provlding an additional $25,OOO to Pernit conpletion of the work effort associated with the conprehensive Plan. 2 3 4 The city Council approved a netes and bounds subdivision to subdivide one parcel into tuo RSF lots at 1690 Koehnen Circl.efor GIen Doty. This rras a siEple application that did not require revien, by the Planning Conmission and involved no varlances. E The Council took action on the Zoning Ordinance amendment pertaining to procedures for the issuance of variances. The Planning conmission reconnended approval of this ordinance back in arch, but action was held up by a desire to hold ajoint meeting betweeri the city council and Board of Adjustnents and Appeals. That neeting was held last nonth and the council considered first reading of the ordinance. First reading iras approved with sone detail rnodifications to furtherclarify the intent of the ordinance. ADUfNISTRATfVE APPROVAL: At the last Planning Coumission meeting, staff notified the Connission that rre were workingvlth the owners of The Press on the installation of pollutioncontrol equLpnent. As you t0ay recall, ue have been notifiedthat a burner unit ras being required by the state to conplywith pollution control regTulations. staff is uorking sith The Press to provide an acceptable location and screening for theunit which includes a chiDney that extends 50 ft. above groundlevel. After much consideration, they detemined that a ground nounted location on the west side of the building is Planning Connlss ion June 13, 1990 Page 3 preferable to a rooftop Dounted location in terns of cost.Staff is also confldent that this location offers improvedscreening potential. While the chinney will be visible fromoff-site locations, the rest of the unit and associated pipingwill generally .not be. The chinney is rather snalL indiameter and uilL replace a series of approxinately sixsDaller Etacks that currently protrude above the roof line. ASSUUPTION SEI,IINARY: During our discussions with the Planning Conmisslon on the Highuay L69/2L2 corridor, a feu minutes weredevoted to the question of future use of the AssunptionSeninary site. As the Plannl.ng Conmlssion rnay recalJ., therehave been one or two attenpts in the past to restore theproperty for sone 6ort of bed and breakfast/hotel./restaurantsort of use. Staff asked if the Planning Connission wouldstill consider Euch a use given the historic nature of thissite in light of recent directives for devetoping newregulations for the corridor. The Planning Cornmissionindicated that they would find such efforts to be acceptable. Since Dy arrival rrith the City I have been contacted on numerous occasions by people rho have thought about restoringthe property. lly position has been one of encouragement, butalso one where the obligation to prepare a concept plan wasplaced back on the applicant. TlT)icalty this has resulted inno further contact. We have recently been in contact with apotential developer of this site rrho appears to be somewhatuore serious than those we have talked to in the past. Theperson in question has experience in redeveloping a sinilarproperty for a corporate retreat/ueekend bed and breakfastfacility three niles north of Stilluater. If this proposalproceeds beyond the talking stage, we will keep the planning Conmission posted as to the progress.