10-17-90 Agenda and PacketFile
AGENDA
CHANITASSEN PI,ANNING COI.fiI{ISSION
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER L7, L99O, 7:30 P.l'[.
CHANHASSEN CITY HAT.I., 690 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLI C HEARINGS
1. Prelirninary PIat Review to subdivide 8.7 acres into 15 single
faroily lots on property zoned RsF and located south of
Pleasant vieu Road and Vineland Forest plat and east of
Peaceful Lane, Troendle Addition.
2. Modification of the Plan for Tax fncrement Financing District
No. 2-1. The purpose of the nodification is to authorize
additional improvement to Audubon Road.
OLD BUSINESS
NEW BUSINESS
APPROVAL OF I{IMITES
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE
ONGOING ITE}IS
ADIIIINISTRATIVE APPROVAI,S
OPEN DISCUSSION
3. Review city Notification Policy for ordinance and Developnent
Review.
4. Review of Bern in Lake Susan Hills west along Audubon Road.
ALTOIJRNI,IENT
CITY OF PC DATE:
CC DATE:
LO/ t7 /eo
tt/ 5/ 9o
90-15 SUB
A1-Jaff/v
E #:
By:
CAS
STAFF REPORT
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Subdivision of 8.7 Acres into 15 Single Fanily Lots,
Troendle Addition
Lots 4 and 8, vineland Forest - west of vineland Forest,
south of Pleasant view Road, north of carver Beach
Estates and east of Lots 5, 6 and 7, vineland Forest
PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT:Frank Beddor, Jr. (owner)
7951 Powers Boulevard
Chanhassen, IIN 55317
Fortier and Associates
408 Turnpike Road
Golden vaIIey, lol 55422
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING AND
I,AND USE:
WATER AND SEWER:
PHYS TCAL CHARACTER. :
N-s-E-w-
RsF, Residential Single Fanify
8.7 acres (gross) 7.5 acres (net)
2 units per acre
fanilyfanilyfanilyfanily
Available to the site.
The northeastern portion of the site is
vegetated with scattered Eature trees. Thesite generally slopes to the northvest to
form a low area.
Low Density Residential
RS
RS
RS
RS
F
F
F
F
ng
ing
ing
ing
s1
s
s
s
Ie
1eIe
1e
EHANH[SSTN
IOCATION:
2 O O O I,AND USE PIAN :
Troendle Addition
October L7, L99O
Page 2
PROPOSAL/StnrIirARY
The applicant is proposJ.ng to subdivide 8.7 acres into 15 singlefanily Iots. The property is zoned RSF. The average lot size is
21,855 square feet hrith a resulting gross density of 1.7 units peracre. The site is located north of Carver Beach Estates and westof Vineland Forest. Access to the subdivision !ril1 be provided byan extension of Nez Perce Drive. The extension of Nez Perce Driveis consistent with a conceptual access plan developed by the Cityduring revj.ew of the adj acent Vineland Forest pl,at. It r,riIIterrninate in a tenporary cul-de-sac at the rrest property tine.Ultirnately, when the adjoining parcel is developed, the street will
be extended to Pleasant view Road via Peaceful Lane. A cu1-de-sac,Troendle l{ay, extends south fron Nez Perce to service r0any of theproposed 1ots.
A11 of the proposed lots meet the minimum requirenents of theZoning Ordinance. Proposed Lot 2, Block t has an existingresidence and an existing garagelbarn. Presently, access to thissite is gained fron Pleasant View Road via a gravel driveway. Thebarn will be located 21.7 feet fron the proposed extension of NezPerce Drive. City ordinance does not perrnit any accessorystructures to be located in the front yard setback. Therefore,staff is recomrnending that this structure be re[oved or re].ocatedas it wilt create a non-conforning use.
Grading and drainage issues are relatively straightforward. stormwater retention will be provided by an expanded storage pond on Lot4, Block 1.. This will overflow into a rretLand on an adjoiningparcel that has been partially fiIIed by the property owner.Municipal utilities are available with no unusual issues in thisregard.
fn summary, staff bel-ieves that the proposed Troendle Additionrepresents a high quality plat that is consistent with thestandards of the Zoning ordinance and with city plans concerningthis area. We are reconnending that it be approved.
BACKGROUND
On Septenber 11, 1989, the City Council approved an access conceptplan for Vi.ne1and Forest. The concept plan would loop Nez perce
Drive to the lrest parallel to Pleasant View Road and hbok up !,rithPeaceful Lane (Attachnent #1). As designed, the access conceptcreates a road that bisects and provides access to the Troendleparcel . The Vineland Forest plat was approved on Decenber 19,1,989. The plat has been constructed with Nez perce terninating ina temporary cul-de-sac at the Troendle property line.
Troendle Addition
October ]-7, 1990
Page 3
Access
Access into this area of the city nas explored in detaiL with thereview and approval of the adj acent Vineland Forest subdivision.During review of that subdivision, it becane clear that the city
r.rished to maintain continuity of north/south flow between Pleasant
View Road and Lake Lucy Road and points further south to maintain
reasonable access for emergency vehicles and residents. At the
same time, residents al-ong Pleasant Viel., Road rrere concerned thatif traffic were introduced too far to the east that Pleasant ViewRoad would have an undue burden from increased traffic.
Consequently, an access concept was developed thereby Nez Perce
Road would be ultimately extended through the Vineland Forest plat
and over to adjacent parcels where it would intersect vith Pleasantview Road at the current site of Peaceful Lane. The ultinate
completion of this roadway connection was to be contingent upon thedevelopment of adjoining parcels. Vineland Forest plat wasconsequently built r,rith Nez Perce Drive terninating in a temporarycul-de-sac at the east property line which it shares in common withthe Troendle property 1ine.
The current proposal is fully consistent with the approved accessconcept. Nez Perce Drive would be extended through the TroendleAddition where it lrould terninate in a sinilar temporary cuI-de-sacat the eastern property. The temporary cul-de-sac should beprovided with an easenent to acconmodate the temporary pavenent and
be provided with a barricade equipped rrith a siqn indicating thatthe road will be extended in the future. This is being done to putalL future residents on notice of the Cityrs intent to extend thestreet. A new cul-de-sac called TroendLe Way ui1l extend
approximately 400 feet south fron Nez Perce Drive to service mostof the lots in the subdivision. Nez Perce Drive as proposed willfar exceed city guidelines for cul-de-sac length. However, sj,nce
we beLieve that this is a tenporary situation that wiII ultinately
be rectified by itis extension to the west, staff does not believethat this presents a problem.
Preliminarv street Desion
The prelininary street designs are generally consistent with Citystandards. The Troendle Way needs to be increased from theproposed 50 feet to the current 50 foot requirement by ordinance.lwo of the lots, Lots 1 and 4, Block 1, r,i1I have direct frontageon Pleasant View Road and will gain access fron this street.Pleasant Vies, Road is a highly traveled street and traffic levelsare expected to increase in the future. Since the nuEber of curbcuts is directly related to potential for traffic safety issues,staff is reconnend.ing that Lots l and 4 share a conmon curb cut onthe property 1ine. A corresponding cross access easement in favorof both parcels should be provided and notice should be placed in
Troendle Addition
October L7, l99O
Page 4
the chain of title to qive infornation on the access provisions tofuture property owners. Lots 1 and 11, Block 2 are corner lotsfronting on the intersection of Nez Perce and Troendle Way. Since
Nez Perce !ri1I be the through street carrying a higher volume oftraffic, staff is recomnending that these lots be reguired to take
access off Troendle way. An appropriate notice should be placed inthe chain of title of these lots. An existing gravel drivewayserving the existing home on IJot 2, Block 1 should be renoved.This 1ot will gain direct access from Nez Perce and there is nolonger the need for the driveway connection. It is highly likelythat Pleasant View Road will need to be upgraded in the future. Adesired right-of-way of 80 feet should be maintained. Therefore,
an additional 7 feet of right-of-way should be provided along the
Pl,easant View extrrosure. Fina1 street plans should be developed forapproval by the city Engineering Departnent.
Ut i l ities
Municipal sewer is available to the site from the Vineland ForestAddition. They will serve all but trrro of the lots uhich frontalong Pleasant View Road and rrril1 take access from Lines in thatstreet. waten8ain is sinilarly available which is stubbed into Nez
Peree Drive. The watermain will be extended through this platultimately creating a loop when the property to the rrest isdeveloped. Final utility plans should be developed for approval bythe City Engineering Department.
Gradino./Drainaoe
Natural site drainage is in two directions, much of the site drainsto the northwest into a partially filled former wetland located onan adjoining parcel . The balance of the site drains to thesoutheast into what is being developed into Vineland Forest p1at.
The proposal ca1ls for nost of the site drainage to be directedinto a newly expanded retention pond located alnost entirely on Lot4, Block l-. The size of this pond will significantly inpactdevelopment on this 1ot since it essentially elininates thepotential for an actively developed rear yard area. In staff'sopinion, the future residence rrould be better served by pushing thepond somewhat to the south onto the adjacent Lot 3 so that theturden can be shared in the buildabli area on L,ot 4 can beincreased. Drainage calculations need to be provided for this pondto ensure that it is appropriately sized to elininate impacts onadjoining parcels. FinaL plans should be subnitted to the CityEngineering Department for further review. The snall portion ofthe site that will continue to drain to the southeast is
accornmodated by drainage provisions in the adjacent Vinetand Forestplat.
An erosion control plan has been subnitted and is generally
acceptable with some nodifications as proposed by the AssistantCity Engineer. Project approval by the ltinnehaha Creek WatershedDistrict is reguired.
TroendLe Addition
October 17, 1990
Page 5
Park Dedication
Staff has concluded that cash should be obtained in lieu of tand onthis plat. An appropriate condition is provided.
The
1.
2.
3.
4.
folloring easenents and rights-of-way should be provided:
Right-of-way for all street inprovements.
An additional 7 feet of right-of-way along Pleasant View Road.
Standard drainage and utility easements.
Drainage easernents over the retention pond and provision of
adequate access to the retention pond.
Utility easenents over all storn sei,,er and utility Iinesrunning outside of right-of-way.
Cross access easeuents for the coDDon driveway on Ipts 1 and4, Block 1.
COMPLIANCE WITH ORDINANCE - RSF DISTRICT
5
6
Lot
Area
Lot
i drh
Iot
DeDth
Home
setba ckw
Ordinance 15,000
BIOCK 1Lot 1 35 r42O
32 ,2OOLot 2
Iot 3
Lot 4
37 ,2OO
49,050
100 r
140.
140 |
2L5l
195 r
7251
187.5 |
259.5 |
30r front/rear
1or sides
N/A
L34t fronX/
73 ! rear
50r-863i-W
Easements
2591
232.51
Troendle Addition
October 17, l99O
Page 5
Lot
Area
Lot
widrh
Lot
Denth
Hone
Setl-ra ck
BIOCK 2Lot L
Lot 2
Lot 3
Lot 4
Lot 5
Lot 6
Lot 7
Lot 8
Lot 9
Lot 10
Lot 1L
)_5 ,7 50
15, 000
15, 000
15, 000
19,400
16,340
15 , 625
15 ,25O
15, 000
15,000
16,940
Double Frontage
120r & 1401
107 |
107 |
110 |
140 |
140 |
140 |
130 |
]-26 .5 |
l-55.5t
l-4 8 r
L29l
140 r
140 |
150 r
55r
g0 r
55 |
g0 |
55 |
90 |
cul -de-sacfront setback
cuI -de-sacfront setback
cu1-de-sacfront setback
125 |
L07 |
L07 r
Double Frontage
95r Troendle way
150 I Nez Perce Dr.
Variance Required - Lot- 2, Block 1 contains an existing residenceand a garage/barn. The proposed front property line wilf belocated 2L.7 feet fron the garage/barn. City ordinance requires 30feet front yard setbacks. To support a variance, the applicantnust show that there is a hardship that is not self-created. Inthis case, the applicant is creating the hardship and a non-conforning use which is prohibited by city ordinances. For thisreason, staff does not support granting the variance but rather
have the garage rernoved or reLocated.
SIJMMARY
Staff believes that the proposed subdivision is reasonable andconsj.stent with city plans and ordinances. Our issues with it arerelatively ninor and can be acconmodated through appropriateconditions. There is, however, an issue relatj.ve to the existing
home and garage on Lot 2, Block 1. It is our understanding thatthis horne and garage will continue to be utilized for a period oftime. This lot currently gets access via a private driveway
Troendle Addition
October L7, L99O
Page 7
running north to PLeasant Vj,ew Road, whereas, I-al.. 2, in the futurewill have frontage and take direct access from Nez Perce Drive.Additionally, we note that the garage structure would be focatedonly 21.7 feet fron Nez Perce Drive and thus would become a non-conforming structure as to setback, whereas a 30 foot setback isrequired. Staff believes that this building should either be
rernoved or relocated to an appropriate site so that no variancesare required.
RECOMI.,IENDATION
Planning staff reconmendsfollowing motion:
the Planning Connission adopt the
ItThe Pl,anning Conrnission reconmends approval of Subdivision #90-15for Troendle Addition as shown on the plans dated Septenber 17,L990, subject to the following conditions:
L. A tree renoval plan shal1 be subnitted for Lots l-, 2 and 3,Block 1 prior to issuance of a building pernit. clearcutting, except for the house pad and utilities, will not bepermitted.
2 The applicant shaltr enter into a developruent contract with thecity and provide the city with the necessary financiaLsecurities to guarantee proper installation of the
improvernents .
The applicant sha1l obtain and conply lrith all conditions ofthe Watershed District pernit.
The developer shall dedicate the utiLities within the right-of-way for perrnanent ownership.
3
4.
5
6
7
The cul-de-sac on Troendle Way shall have a radius of G0 feetand the street nane shalL be nodified to either TroendleCircle or Troendle Court to elininate any confusion inapplying it as a through street. Final street plans shall bedeveloped for approval by the City Engineering Department.
The applicant sha1l instalL erosion control silt fence aroundthe ponding area until such time that turf is established.Turf or sod sha1l be placed behind all curbing.
Shared driveway access off of Pleasant View Road for Lots 1
and 4, Block 1 is reqired and a cross access easenent shalt beprovided. This conmon section of the driveway sha1l beconstructed to a 7 ton design paved to a width of ZO feet andhave a maximum grade of 1O8.
Troendle Addition
october L7, L99O
Page 8
8. Provide the following easenents and rights-of-way:
the drainage and utility easeDents along the westerlyproperty line of Lots 9, 10 and 11, Block 2 and the
ponding area on l-ots 3 and 4, Block 1 that are shown on
the grading and erosion control plan shaIl also be shor.rn
on the prelirninary plat accordingly.
the acquisition of a drainage easeuent through the
property innediately Irest of Lots 3 and 4, BLock L wil1
be required for the discharge of the detention pond.
additional 7 feet of right-of-Iray along Pleasant vie!,
Road.
The garage/barn on l-at- 2, Block 1 will be renoved or relocatedto an appropriate Iocation so no variances are required. Lot2, Block 1, sha1l be servi.ced by Nez Perce Drive an dthegravel driveway to Pleasant View Road shall be removed.
12.The temporary cul-de-sac should be provided with an easementto acconmodate the tenporary pavenent and be provided with abarricade eguipped with a sign indicating the road wiII be
extended in the future.
13.Lots 1 and 11, Block 2 are
Troendle Way. tr
required to have access frou
ATTACII},IENTS
1L,
1
2
3
4
9. ?he applicant sha11 subnit storD seuer calculations verifying
size and capacity of the storB sewer systen and ponding basin.
Eight inch sanitary seuer at a ninirourn rate of o.4t sha11 be
constructed on this subdivision and service locations for allof the lots on this plat shall be shown for final subnittalreview. The final plans and specifications shall. be subrnittedto the city Engineer for review and approvaL.
10. Park and trail fees will be accepted in lieu of parkland
dedication.
city Council ninutes dated Septenber 11, 1989.
llemo fron Asst. City Engineer dated October 12, 1990.vineland Forest city council staff report.
Pre).iuinary p1at.
Cit!' courci I tEeting - September U; I9g9
APPROVE COIICEPT PTAN EOR VINEIAIID EOREST ADDITION.
hul ltause: At ttte last Cit:, Oourcil nEeting there vas discussion on tlleVinelard Forest plat ard at that tirne, access reas a primary issue thaf sur facedand staff u.s
.
asked to prepare access c$cepts to rook at Low best to serve thiselat aF adjoinirg properties. rn view of tlr" bour r guess r can cut to ttEchase but there vas a Lot of backgrou'rl investigation [tnt ,ent into this intelr.s of creating a strd)/ area ard reviewirg o(istirg plats that had beenapproved in this area. rhere ras one in paiticurar to- trp r€st side of thestud], area that has beer apprwed. It haa been final aprcved. It has not beenfiled ard itrs due to expire in Gtober. rE looked at tL varietf,-oiLy" ofservirg this area. A11 the road stubs. Tte unleveloped rights_o?_na1r.
Border ing roads. i*ratever and tried to define uilcn of thoL sere feisiu:.e. t{ethen tried to deverop which sort of issues r€ were encounterirg in this area interms of r^rhat sort of goals r€ r{ould have for t}e acrcess s}rstsl. l€ vranted anacc€ss that prc^rided ideally scne thru morsnent on the ror-th/south orientationthrough the area. h:bl ic Safet!,rs requested tllat ard t€ feel that there's goingto be a considerable nunber of trqnes eventuarry in this area ard tlnt it vrassarranted to provide a north and a sorrth outlet. lts,re agrare of the access andtraffic concerns on preasant view. scme infoEnation the city deveroped in termsof traffic on this street as.it exists. toda!' verifies that it is cariying aconsiderable anount of traffic so providirg another means of outrettifo Lhatneighborhood beccmes a corcern. re basically rcunl q) with 4 arternativecorcept plans. Alternative I is basicall:, the original plat as recfimerded orproposed b!' the developer. vltEt rc did is rre tried to take a reasonable
ex tension of that...how that could serve the ranainirg unlevelolEd g.o,rrd in th"afea. Ore thing ke erant- everlbody to note tircrrgh is tfnt tf,e oiignif Vinelardplat shoq,ed trc stub rights-of-way oriented to Ltre rdest. rtp soufhern one roethink rrorks fine frcrn the grading standpoint txrt as r^e got into this, thenorthern one causes a probtsn because ttE onI:, !,a:, to biild j.t is to take outtF l-r* on tlre adjoining proper ty r&ich is scmettring r€ r€rre -....r,.d "uort.I^le thought it v,as presrmptuous of us to get into tlrat at this point ard assqrethat l-hatr s going to be the case. rtrs our berief that ttratrs not rearly aneffective lgans of proridirg service. . .recqrmerdirg ttE position of cunirg r4rwith _sonething ttrat nourd lead pople to ber ieve trnt rcirra trxovide s".u:."" intlE futrrre so r€rre rec-crmerd irg through alr four options ttrat ttris connectionhere be eliminated for that reason. @ain, this is the original plat. If 1oubasically take that off ,. you've got tlle original plat. I€ ;ho,, servirq theadjoining properties with a street corDection tlnl rpuld cure through []re
-Peac.eful Hills plat. ftrat is a- stub right{f-{da!' that had begl proiiaea cuoingback out frcm Peaceful lane back q) to preasant view. tte proposar has sonemerit in terrs of servirg internalry generated trips. rte iai-or problsn as wesee it tlnugh is alr the traffic wirris rp on pleasant view. it d6esn't provideus an:, nEans of irgress ard egress to tlE south. f€ feel ttE lorrg tem israther short sighted. Again, all these trips... r€ have mt do; an irdepthtraffic study. I{e donrt have that capabilit:, in ho'rse to fig[rre out Hhere thesecars are going to go orEe theyt re out tEre Uut tte mre trafiic !,ou have onPreasant view...itrs reasonabre to assurE that ttE tErcentage of that is golrgto traveL east. ..
Courcilman Johnson: Before lpu move on paul.
oourci lman hlorlsnan: r lras goirg to say. 6urd it be assrrned that he r re dovn to
Al ternate 2 or 3?
61
cit!' oowEil |Eeting - Septsnber It, 1989
FEul Krause: !,ta recarmerded 4 with a s€ries...
Courci lman !,trorksan: I thought 4 with the pass thru Has not a real excitirB
oPtion.
Cotrrci lnran Johnson: Paul, before ],ou go on. ltle littLe stub cuning off of take
Luc:, on tlE r€st side by the water towei. there. That wasn't crnsidered in an1,options. $lttat I s the problan there? Driving bl' it ancl looking in there, it
doesnrt seqn to be too bad of topograFr!, in the first cluple hurdred feet
looking north at that point. Is there scnretling tlEt runs into a problsn later?I know the current Feacreful Hill plat but if tlnt expires next month, which is
again an if, wtrich is a huge 2 letter rDrd. B.lt if it does expire, then eDuld
that be a viable secord entrance?
Paul l(rarlse: theoreticall:, !,lss. I should sa], tlEt re're shotring 1ou 4
concepts. Dave ard I generated a lot more Ehan that ard the !.,aste basket is
fuu. of tlprn. There's a lot of different ea:rs of serving this but there is scmedifficult grade there. It's probabllt scnethirg that could be acocmodated.qle of tlE prjmar!' c!rcerns i,,re had with that is ntren 1ou took at tlre biggerpicture.
Counci lman Boyt: Bcuse me Paul but if 1ou don't have the microphone, nobody's
heari.rg :rou out there.
Paul Krause: Oe of tle corcerns he had is that if laou're looking at the biggerpicture of hoi, to provide acress to the larger neighborhood, r*et re corcernedthat there I s no neans of a north/south connection betr€en Poirers anl the lake.If ]rou orient that connection at that point there, :,oulre basicall), servirg the
area just within throwing distance of Por.ers BIvd. ard that it rDuld be more
advantageous to centralllt locate this in terms of pronotirg that north,/south
movsnent. Again, riE think itrs a cormection that is. potentially viable frorn agradirg stardpoint. !€ just didn't feel it rarranted a lot more considerationat this point after seeing how the *ttole area functioned.
Courcilman Johnson: So :roui re sa:/irg that }rout re tr:/irg to get a north/south
clnnection q) to a road that r€ don't really rnnt Fople going on that mrh?
PauI Krause: thatrs true but $,tlat that also does is it help6 to bLeed off satreof this traffic to tlre south. Right rlow tlre ray tte original plat eEs proposd
ard presunabl:, the era!' irdivitlual protErty owners rould choose to develop their
ProIErt:, in tre future, all of that trafficrs going to be introduced onto
Pleasant View. ltre north,/south routing allorri for another option. yes, it does
have potential of introducirg more traffic orE r€), or the other but r€ thinkit's generalll' a benefit to provide trc legitinate t.E)6 in arrl out of an areathat's going to have that man:' tunes. Therer s also questions of anergerclr
vetricle acrcess. ltEt's our F:bl ic safety folks that aLso stress that he tr!' toget that southern aoc.ess. Again, routirE all the traffic back rp to the north
doesn't resolve that qrestion for tlrern.
Councilman Johnson: the southern ac.cess, to get tro acc€sses, that one tould
also work. Gets yorl tlE secord access without rnakirg it a drive thru. Keep
62
Courcilman Johnson: I thought tfE:, reccnmerded 4?
City Oouncil fEeting - S:eptsnber 11, 1999
gor-rlg.
Paul l(rause: okay. rtre secorrl alternative lrE looked at r€s a variation of thethsrE that vras presented b], an architect workirg for the hcneowners associationwhere tle:, ilrustrated tl"r, curde-sacs. ore ccrning in frcrn preasant view. rheother ccmirg j.n frcrn !,lez perce. !€ took that design ard tried to modiflz itagain. hrarging it to serve adjoining protErties: fitrat r€ did is te took thesouthern culde-sac ard exterded it back throrrgh back again to peacefrrl Hirrs.lttis goes a lot furtJEr to providing tlnt rorth,/south routing. We s€e trroproblens with it though ard tte first is that this routj.rg ii ver1, convolrrted.
Yourve basically got a swi tch back road design in here, t",trich the more
ccrnpl icated )rou make this, the less likely it is that people are going to useit. ttre secorrl issue, and Ehis r+ill ctrnJ into ptay a tithe ratei, i5 that tleccmpletion of this loop is contirgent up on the decisions of tr^o oiher protErt:'
oh'ner s to develop. libw, rae can and will continue. rn the past r€ have. I{evDuld continue to advocate stub rights-of-vny beirg ded icated so v,E can ex tenalroads in the future and rc'll often p:sh for those things but the!,'re alvra],sdifficult issrres to resorve. lleighborhoods always obj ect ard no iratter wtrit 1,orrdo, itrs a di.fficult problan. So rfiile we ttrink this is a step in tlre rightdirection, r.re donrt think it's the ideal one. rn alternative 3 roe uasicattt,tried to start rdth a clean street of [Eper. IE took the Nez perce connectionard assrrned that the peac€fuI Hills prat was voided out or was replatted ardrrrhat lre tried to do is ccrne rp with a straighter shot through the neigbborhood.
l,low, one of the advantages to exitirg on the north side to peacefrrl r,ane is thatyzourre quite crose to povers B[vd.. Rather than further to the east arri kethj.nk. the. closer :,ou orient people to Bowers Blvd. ttle rnore likely the:, wiII beto exit ttle neighborhood that wayr rather than shoot back dol,,r to ttre eist. Sothis is an option that vE felt had scne merit. tte final ore is basicall], theone that las presented at the first rneeting ithEtrating the staff proposed
access to tte south. tte original prat is stirl over here. !€ just popped thatroad through. At the last meeting ttrere rere sane questions as !o r*retier ornot l\bz Perce was a legi timate connection in tenns of grade. !'lhether or not wecourd nake that grade, hve did quite a bit of qprk on that ard refined ttregradirg prans to tlE point where vuer re cqnfortabre that a good safe street canbe built thr-ough there ard provide tlEt connection. lce think this plan has sqnemerits ard it has scnle problsns. The meritorious aspect of it for '.ls is that itprovides that north/south connection in a ver1, centrittl, located point beteJeen
Por{ers ard the lake so rc think EtE utilit:, is there. Ttp secord aspect of itis that it can be built fumediatellr. All the lard is under the conLol of oneprotrErt:, oMrer. The dobn side of this is ttlat it introalucEs ttE traffic onto
Pleasant View fairly far to the east and does have tlat factor, potentially
encruragirg more traffic to use that street to exit the neighborhooa. At EtElast meeting r€ reccnmended tlnt this al-ternative be serected. !€'re crntinuingto recrormerd that it be selected for the trc reasons. That it can be built
toda], and tlEt it's appropriatel]' located tut ne do ackrnwledge tlrat problsn.orr recdmerdation further though is that if this arternative is not acreptabteto the Oourcil, that :rou look at alternative 3 since it neets most of thosecriteria that r€ hd established for the design ard is generally successful inthat. With ttEt if ttere are questions.
Courcilman Johnson: I'd like to salr tbat:rou havenr t addressed l,lez perce ]'et.You drive t€z Perce and vourre salrirq this is almost a one lane road in tlrefirst Place. If an!,bod!,'s walkirg in there, like ttEf' erere the other evenirg
nthen I drove it, it is a one lane road. yourve got rocrn for one car arrl
53
Cit:/ Oourci1 I'beting - Septsnber 1I; 1989
sanebod:, walkirg. If another car cqnes b!,, it gets difficrrlt. yor: take Option
4, making that straight of a route through there, f lErsonalll, reuld rather
encourage people to go on out to [b$rers out of Lhese neighborhoods. I thinktlut tlrc neighborhood needs a back door. EVerl' neigtrborhood needs a back doorfor p:blic safety prrpos€s. scrnetinEs you may not be able to get in frcrn
Pleasant Viev, so I canrt see everl"thing Grning off of PleasanE View but Ird hate
to ercourage ircreased traffic on l€z Perce. Ihat is even worse than Pleasant
View as far as I'm corcerned. Especiall]r since your trees overhang it. Itts
rrct like, Pleasant viev, therers s(rrE areas where ttE trees. pleasant View just
seqns wider even thorrgh [Evgnent wise Pleasant View is probably tlre sa,me widthof [Evqnent but because of the vegeEation ard everlrthirg on ]€z percE, ]€z peroe
just seqns rurrror^er. I reall:, have a problan with 4. Nct as bad of a problen
with 2 or 3. If $re ceuld do 4 to hrhere crqning south. Thatr s 3 l{) there but
even 3. Ccrning sor.rth it ras a right turn onl!, so it doesn't beccne a short crrt
to carc frqfl Pleasant Vievr ard into Carver Beach area so dolrn here aE the
intersection of blez Frce ard take l/rcy. If !,our re cqning south itrs a right
turn on1l, ard goirg north on t€z PercE, :Du cluld leave it to where you have oneIane. Yourve got enough rocrn in tlere to make an inters€ction tllat functions
that va],. Tb where lrou have a one lane to the right both wa1e.
hve tlsntEl: Not intersect Jay. Ire just proposd Iike a T intersection Iguess. That represents road right-€f-walr.
Courci Iman Johnson: night. that's htrat I mean. Yourve got enough road
right-of-way there to brirg, instead of a T j.ntersection, to have a sirgle lanetlat's oriented to wfEre lrou have to turn right. I want to sa:r right turn only
so werre rlot gettirg people c-orirq off of Pleasant View. Ortting through this
neighborhood ard then running tltrorrgh l€z Frce to go to the grade school or
oorE to Cit:, tlau wtrich is not erhat r€ want to encourage people to do is to go
through residential areas as short cuts. i€ r€nt th€m to rrsie tlp arterials ard
the collectors ard all that stuff rather than the residential streets especialll,
one like !,Iez Ferce ard Pleasant Vielr. If eE're going to do tltat, I $ouLd wantto see that people cqnirlg out of that ard goirg south are forced to go o/erto Po$ers instead of cutting through. It certainll, isnrt the straightest eEy.
Courcilrd[an Djmler: Ja]r, do lrou have an alternate, wtrich ore are ]rouproPosing?
!,layor Ctmiel : lE said 2 or 3.
OoruEilman Johnson: Yes, 2 or 3 but if 4 is decided on, I Hant sc.ne
modifications on 4 so southbourd's right turn only. In fact on 3 I reuld
even. . .
6urEi lman Bo!'t.: Itrs ar+fully hard to enforce that right turn onl!, stop.
6urci1man Johnson: It is. But ifittr street design, you dErke it difficult to
nake the left turn.
Courci]man Bo:.t.: t{e1l you lsrclr{ that doesn I t eDrk.
Courcilman Johnson: Pleasant vieer?
Councilman Bog: that's right.
64
Ci t:' CounciL tbeting - Septanrber u; 1999
counci Lnan Johnson: lEar I'buntain. But see the signs never went up there.that r€s tirc probran. vihen you brri ld tte road and day one on tte road you have
a
_
sign sayirg right trrrn only. At llear lbuntain, 3 l,ears l-ater rte prrt ip theright turn only sign. Or left trrrn only sign. TtEt didnrt lork after lrou had 3years of people makirg right hard trrrns to cqne in ard do it. If on day one :,ouput up the sign, 1ou'ie not going to get as mrrch problan. Brt without ih"t, fwonrt be in favor of any' connection to lEz Peroe.
l4ayor Ctrniel: Anl, otlEr dj.scussion?
Counci Iman Bo].t: I have a question for Ja:, I grEss. V*nt y,lour re saying is thatthe right trrrn onl:, is for people canirg out of Vinelard?
Councilman Johnson:
Road dor,ur'r to Powers .
Right. Going south. So tlel' have to go dor.n take tlc:'
Council$an Boyt: ...Qtion 3. It has a Iot of draqbacks. I agree with paul
ard r,e have not showl that vre're very successful in naking tbese future roadhook-ups. hle keep tr)'ing to [xrt in s:,stsns that guarantee tllat ever!,lcodl, knoersthe road's goJ.ng thru but I'm confident that the people wtrc are livJ.rg therewill fight t-Llat diligently rltren tlrc day cqnes to prt it tlEough. I think if rEgo with 3, lhe developer of Vinelanl has got to give us scre sort of assurancethat trte other prolErty o$rners agree that tlntts a reasonabre connection. Gary
had talked about one vEU, to assure that is to c-qle r,p with a, erhat did ]pu caltit Gary? Scrne kird of a c.crnpretrensive road plan or sonething?
Gar.-}, warren: !'Iell similar to wtEt r,re did on the Stratford Ridge. l€ did a
concept la]rollt here. I€ didnrt take that any further but uhat I suggested or m:,ccment rculd be that the corcept could be recorded against ttE properties,
ranaining properties out there but at least lourve got it on record. Ma:rbe it
could be done as part of a cunprehensive plan for this particular area.
Cor:rci Iman Johnson : Are tlre FotErt], orrners of this center pro[Ert]r, were the:/
involved i.n any of this discussion or have ttEy been taLked to at all?
Ffank Beddor: Etank Beddor at 910 Pleasant View Road. Do :rou $ant me to answerthat question first?
Corrrcilman Johnson: Yes.
Etank Beddor: Joel lturdle oq,ns tlE prolErt!, right down the middle. tbts livedthere, he's 80 ]rears old. His [Erent's ],ived there ard hets tived there aI1 hislife and at this current tj:ne hers not interested in selling. A.s of toda:,
an:4ra!/, or developirg $ that's ttE status as mrrch as I kmv, on rrtro owns EtE
txopertl,. the pro[Ert], next to it is Art Or€ns artl tE's here tonight. ItleprolErty no(t to it.
@wrcilman Johnson: Did staff talk to Mr. lturdle?
Dave HqnIEI: Ja!', Joe did cqlre in quite sarE tinE ago ard spoke with me aboutit and he did express that he had rp desire to sell or srrbdivide at this time.
@urrci lman Johnson: Right. But $erre stiU talkirg the future here.
65
City @uncil lbeting - Septsnbe,: 11, 1989
l,la:,or Chniel: Did he have an:, objections to the proposal ?
Eve IHnIEI: l,lot to my recollection, no.
Frank Beddor: Ncw that Irm up here can I?
Ma:ror Gmiel : Etank, go ahead.
Etank Beddor : Eif st of all I rd like to thank -vou lt. f,talror ard the courcil
people for givirg us ttE tirrE to Look at this challenge. !'le reall:, alpreciate
the time ard I'd also like to thank staff because the:, korked very hard ingivirg scnre alternatives. l,b:dce that's the first tjme I've seen this happen inaII the lpars I've been here stpre staff cane rrp with scne alternatives so redidn't have to start frqn scratch so I really appreciate that. Arrl Don, marvbe
you r.,ould tlEnk the Gnnhassen lEtrolman v*ro ras parking on pleasant View Roadto tr:, to enforce tfE sped limit. Last Frida:, night I drove over ard he was
parked there arxl te was parked there so it r€s kind of a reverse situation. I
ptrl led orer. Cot out of my car. When over ard introdrrced m:,self ard I thank€d
him. His rEme !€s Don, for being there. Usuall], thatrs the other ray arowrd.
Usuall:, theyr re stopping me but I wanted to thank :,ou. Ard I also want to thank
Gtrck, tle develoIEr, for being ver!, patient ani rerking wi th trs on this. The
issue really, as werre talkirg about Pleasant Vies, Road, is safet:, is tte main
issr.re ard 1et me just shos, !'ou a coq)le of pointers on that. Ihis is our
driveuay on Pleasant Vie$, Road ard ke, becarrse of ttE safet:, ard the traffic, n=
are moving otu driveray about 60 feet to the riest so that t€ can see t*ren r,p
cane out boti ways ard also ttE people can s€e trs when rc puu q). tlow r€rre
having to tear r4> this driveray, tear out atl the eLectrical ard ttpn rerregoirg to have to bulldoze a new drivevray. this is Joe lyurdle'sr driveway thruthis area ard hedge becarrse it is a safety problanr. Fople come r{) that road.It's wide ard so ttE!' ccrlre uP fast ard ttE!' don't realize it narrows dorm alittle later so safety is a real issue. this is the developerts prolErt:,directly across tlE road frcm, he call it the fa:mlrouse. this is a borderline
arrl this is vf,rere tfE proposed road ras set to go res right here. Itris house
sets 30 feet frcm the rod ard this driveral' cunes right out So aII those
headlights are going to hit the front door arri tlte living r-ocrn crrning out on theoriginal proposal. vthsl I read ttE staff report, ttEy said there are l0 tripsper da]. per household so with 21 houses, that'd be 2I0 trips a day. Now I donrt
krow bow man], of those are at night but scmebody r*ho l ives Ehere is goirg to
have a nervous breakdotdr tith all ttrose headlights culling out right *nck intotheir front rocm. ffd itrs so cLose to the road arri ttE wa:/ the grounl is set,I think it'd be hard to diffuse ttEt. It could be done but I think tlnt rcu1d
be verlt hard. l,lar illn ard I drolre this area frcm 2 or 3 tfules on t€z Perce
Dr-ive ard r€ clocked it frcrn tlte southerl]r aocess that r€ could like to see downto Kerber ard thatrs s/Lgtll, s of a mile ard that road, as you sa:, Jay, is the
same as Pleasant. It might look a little narror€r but theie's one Uaa turn arrithat's where V{estern Road cqnes in. Itrcn re $ent back ard cl€ked it fran the
ProPosd entrarceua:/ on Pleasant View ard r€ t€nt to IH 101. lbw r€ onl:7 rpntas far to Pleasant View j-n that direction to i{here the rod opened r.{) nice ardwide. Artl tlte first s/Ioths of a mile tlere are 6 tj.ght turns. Either tte1r, retight S turns or btird turns. In that mile stretch there are lL turns so i!'s alot more serious for traffic going dorrrn pleasant Vj.ew I think, and this i.s myopinion, than ttE sane arDunt of traffic c"cnirg domr l€z EErc€ rod to Kerbei.
l{ovJ I never go that rla}' so I had to drive it 2 or 3 times to check it to see so
65
City @uncil !,beting - Septernber U; I9B9
obviously hla are not in_favOr of an], more traffic on pleasant Vie$r. lltpn onthis report r read the initials aDT, average aairy triiiic-.r*: ' i-tr i"rr" "t-rtis reportirg that there i{ere 3G6 to L }qg 6.rs " 8ay golrg Uy-thil-"iJ "fvinelard develognent. r urderstard that a r.ocal road is supposed to carrl, aboutL'goo caxs ard a corlector carries more. lcell this is a rocal .oua-*L'..arread], at sdne point in t!rc, 300 cars over on preasant view bad so r€ arevery mrch aEainst an:, more traffic on pleasant view. ol ttE prats, wtrich laourvealready, gone through, r€ realL], recfimerd AL t€rnate 3 ard *ren f pickea up thismaterial last Frida]r, r realized ttEt this vras a rough sketch. rt neeaea to b"fine tuned and ttre first thing r€ ncticed r&s that i" tt" piop..ti Gt *.developer's borrght, te rvanted 18 lots ard then 3 off prea;nt- viei. w"rr tr=eE}, it shor.rs now it' s onll' 15 lots so re had Eryl Fortier take this salnre prat 3ard refire this a littre bit so it does cqrE out with 18 lots. at the rastmeeting r^e i{Ere tere both chuck agreed r bel ieve and arso ti," pr"u"un[ view that,*e do not want a thru street. you stirl agree t that don't pu cruciz youdonrt r.nt a thru street? !b had such a rorg wait tonight $,it * had a rot oftirne to talk ard re know this needs a riEtre bit more w6rk but r don,t rearu,think re should have to hord tle deveroper rp if te agrees to n..,,u". i ""agettirg the other or.tners position. r r.ould ttrinr tna[ in t]re future ir *ymayi€lled to develop this property the:, rculd have to c-onform if this road isdedicated to wlEtever the citl, prans rcurd be. rtrere is ore disadvantage tothis route ard ttEt is that it's going to be an imposition;r G-p""ition thatrive here ard here. Ttrat's goirg to put a rot of traffic at sore ?utrrre datethere. lltriLe rte !€re veiting I r{as talking to hr}rl ard matbe lre could leavethis ray but
_
rnal'be it's possibre to take tfo erd oi this cui{e-sac anl this isvery steep right here but lrou can crme at an angle like this and go over andcqne back. dohn so nalte you could have another iccess here. you'6 have thisaccess ntrich vrcrrld relieve trErt of tlre traffic this ra1,. yooia U.r" tt i, ."."""ard-also- the one srerre proposirg. r asked ctruck toniglrt before ree "tual"a. rsaid rourd :pu olpose this plan or if the cor'rcir ace6ptea this pi;;;urd 1ouaccepE it? . rtrs n:, urderstartting tlnt chuck said he Gs not opi".a'to-tt l"pran v*rich is, r'lr. call it 3A. ?o * rcurd hope tl,t tt* co*.ii ionijtrt rcurayote on this plan ard acrcepE this ptan with a tatrSrrar], cul_de_sa heie so ttredeveloper could go about his brrsiness and develop tlre iest the poop..i:r. h youhave any questions? ItEnk 1,orr.
Counci Luan Bo:.t: I have a qrrestion for !,ou. Itlatr s the differencre betr€en tlleCityts 3 ard yorrr 3A?
t r-ank Beddor: verlr littre. rt's just that r€ reilid tle lots so rE carle outnith 18 lots instead of 15.- see ir?ren the city did it, they Here Joirg-'it ".dtlp:r r€re wder pressure ard they lere cprr.er-ned about the- roads but 6bviousfvthe der,'eloper doesnr t want to rose 3 lots ard t'= haar developed his for 1a-;-EEr:'r -Fortier develoS=d this so it '.ould cqne out to rg loG in that area. tbtcountirg the 3 that go rp here.
courci lqrcrnan Dinler: r assune arr tlrose rots are stardard? you donr t lsrorf
Frank Beddor: _VE just got- this late Friday night ani hr:rl r{,orked m this thisartern@n brrt hr:rl, are these aII standard size lots? lB,Ogg square feet?
Dar'lrl Fortier: TtE:rr re all in conpliarre with tte City ord inare for depth ardwlclEh as heII as the square fmtage.
67
Cit:, @urcil lEeting - Septsnber Il, f989
Cor.rnci lman Johnson:
green one tlEn?
Does one of those exit out on pleasant View then? That top
Ftank Beddor: Yes. ltpre rtould be a drivanayr here to go into this one arrl this
rrorrld probabl], be 2 lots witi a dri.veuay ccnirg in serving 2 lots that is not
sketched in. ole of trle things that rre did obj ect to in pran 2 and sane of theother plans, the:, had a lot of lots alorg pleasant Vie{, Road, a half a dozentlEt i.orrld arr be s€trErate driverialE cuning out onto tlrern arrl rc did not vEnt aIot of selErate drivevra:E cunirg out. I don't think ttE Cit), wants that either.ltEt doesn I t help so again r i{ant to thank the stafff or vDrking on t}ris andgettirg this worked out.
l,talpr Ctmiel: ltnnk you. An:rone else wishing to address this?
Chuck Van Eeckhout: lry narE is Chuck Van Eeckhout. I'm the develotrEr of thisproposal. ry proposal , rrrtrich is still before vou is as it has been sirce l.la)/ or
whenever r first Lrought it. to the planning Cdmission. I stilL bel ieve thatrepresents tie best use of this protrErt:, after considerable study ardevaluation. t'Ile proposal that r,ias put- forward by the Honeowneri association isacceptable to me if that is r.fiat the Counci I rmuld like to do. It has thenegative 9f beirg a littl.e bit more disruptive on tlE south erd with regard Eothe vooded area ard it does Ieave us in kird of a l jn&o on that strip g6ingnorth to Pleasant Viel, e*tich is okay. ItIL dea] wit}l that either as an outlotor wiLr approach ma:,lce 2 lots frcrn the south and r frcrn the north or 2 frcrn thenorth ani r frqn the sorrth or sonething like that rrrhich is r,,,orkable. r have nofuttber cqrments. I'I1 be happ!, to ansrrer an:, questions.
Courci lman Johnson: gflat about mlr, do :rou urderstand wtEt I uas saying abouttl= access off of t€z Perce ard nrakirg that to where if you ccning dor.n out ofthat, even on option 3, if lourre cuning down out of :,our s"tdivilion, that itrsa.right tum onl:, versus goirg onto lEz Perce? So wei re usirg a fuII stardardcit:, street, take tJlc:, bad instead of libz perce. Does that give you muchproblan?
I'iayor Ctmiel: Are there an!, questions?
chuck van Eeckhout: Nct at aIl.
!,ta1,or Gmiel : Okay. An:, further discussion?
Courcilman Johnson: trltren in Gtober, or I!t. O€ns is here isnrt he? Is hegoing to let that expire?
Courci kEn Bo:,t: yes. I've got one ccment. I think that e,hat I would reall],be c.amittirg to here rculd be scrE sort of, call it the S plan if you want butsanething that rculd cqne off of take tj:c!, bad ald errl rp on rfiat L,re callingEacefur lane ard how the rots are configured in there is a r*rore differenttopic. fihether the staff or $rtrether tlE proposal rc just saw is betterl r have
ry- idea but I think it gives us a lot of r*Et re rant. Brfortunatel:, ii,s notarl at orE tirE ard tlEt's a serious drawback so rrd rike to see nog& directedto cqne q> with the strongest assureties that the city could have ttat rre couldput into place Eo assure us that this rod wiII e^/entuall)' centinue on to thewest.
68
Cit!, courci I l.beting - September 11; 1989
l,layor Gmiel : Do yeu want to address that?
Ar: thur q€ns: there's no !€!/ I can develop it now so it will expire.
Courci lman Johnson: thsr have :pu looked at Alternate 3 ard AI ternate 2 that
affect your pro[Ert}? I'd like to hear frcn 1,ou on those.
Arthrrr Oerens: 3A rrould be ttE most effective...I think for all ttE properties.
Cor:rcilnan Johnson: Ttntrs good. 2 out of 3Iandorrners in agreqrcnt. thatrs
better than usual.
Courci lman Bo!.t: !{e11 itt s the same concept. lbi., }'ou divide the lots tp.
l{ayor Grniel: Anlr further discussion? If not, thanks Chuck. Can I have a
motion?
Cornci lman Boyt: Irm not exactllt sure how t€ eDuld lerd it. bes anltbod:r got
ideas that rculd convel, that r€, I think if the rest of you agree, that the S
curvature with one enlrarce being off take tlcy Road ard tte other Faceful
[,ane, ard I think that ttE developeE should cqne back to us rrrith a specific lot
IalDut .
t"lalror Gmiel: Yes. Efinitell'.
Corrrcilman John$n: I think tte motion rcuId be that the City Counci 1 prefers
the Al ternate 3 tl,pe of option rould be the motion.
Corrrci lman !{crknan: with, I grrss t}e discussion Ja}r. Irm rpt excited about a
right only turn ard I donrt krpw if werre fullyr takirg into account that lnrk
and everlthing else dovn ttrere but I have...
Counci lman Johnson: That's trrE. ltpse people will be served b!, that park ard
to get to it you'd have to do !{ez Ferce. lrbr!, good point. I missed Ulat
cqPletel]r.
Courci Iman Boyt.: I'm mt a right on1:, fan there either.
Oourci Lnan Johnson: Yealt. !$e11 h'hen it was a straight through. with Alternate
3 being as crooked as it is, it no lorlger looks like a short cut. I live next
door to a short cut. l,bst ever!'M!, here has probabl:, taken santa vera at one
tiJne. You havenr t?
Counci lman Bo!.t: ft's not short tlEre.
Courcilwqnan Difiler ! It's not a short cut to me.
Counci lman !{orlqEn: I glEss itrs going to be our next Carver Beach bad. lEz
Perce cqning dor.m here is goirg to be ttE next one because I think it grades
dor,rn doesnrt it a little bit? It does ore of these. Itrs thin ard it's going
to be the next place where EEople are goirg to be screanirg for IEtroIs ard the
park arrl siderralk ard everything else. It's definitely going to be a chute
going dova'r there.
69
citl, oourcil l,teeting - septsnber I1, 1989
Courci lman Johnson: A lot of people walk that. It is a good, I've seen qui te a
few trEople r,alking tllat area.
l,tayor Ctmiel : Yes Ehey do.
Courci Iman Jotnson: It's a good candidate for sideualk to tlle [Erk even thorrgh.
l,tayor Gmiel: It's ttle most vj.abl,e option. okay. !{e have a motion of itqn 3A.
Courcilman Bo!.t: 3.
Counci lman Johnson: It6n 12, Alternate 3. I'11 move that tlle City Courrci I
voices it's prefererce to usirg ALternate 3 as the access alterrEte for Vineland
subdivj.sion. Vinelard Eorest plat.
Courcilman Bolt : I ' II secord that if :,our 11 acrept that r€ also direct the Cit1,
Attorney to investigate ttE best r€:/ to see this prrrsued to tlE r€st. I€ should
have that.
Oourcilman Johnson: Yes. tb prob16n.
Courcilman Johnson moved, Councilman Boyt seconled to approve tlE concept plan
for vinelard Forest Affition using Al ternate 3 as ttE ac-cess aLternative ard
directing tlre City Attorne:/ to investigate the best access route to the r€st.
A11 voted in favor ard the motion carried.
Chuck Van Eeckhout: Ole question. hltrat is the clrrect prrcedure at this point?
l€ have a prelirninary plat...i{e take it lou will approve a preliminar'1, plat...
next time?
Jo Ann Olsen: NcEnaUl, re rrculd go back to the Planning Cormission but the
Plannirg Ccnmission essentially gave. ..configuration to ttE Courcil so I think
rre could jr:st bring it back to the Courcil.
l,layor Ctmiel: Oka]', brirg it back to the Courcil.
APPEAL DEISION FOR A I'T ARB AND T'T DEPIH \/ARIA!TE, 185 PLEASA!{T VIEW UD,
CARL r.CNIrrr.
CarI lbNutt: CarI ltNutt. Orrll' lbtiJtltt everlone lcows nre b1r. lt. Mayor.
@urcilpersons. I want lacu b [xrt out of yorrr mird if :rou can scme of these
mathgnatical, figures tlnt ttave rnade nqt lot almost rerthless. I have the lorgest
piece of prolErtlt frcrn between IH 191 ard the curve on Pleasant View Road. Itrs
315 feet lorg but do you have a trans[Ererc], for ttEt Jo Ann? Oka],. ltre legal
description say:S rry prolErt:' is 129 feet x 3I5. tbhraver, the road oh'ns 2 rodsof that on myu side rpw r*rich nrakes it on1!r 87 feet deep. Oonsequently leavingre l,3gg square feet short on ore piece of property if I divide it. A little
less than tlEt. In otlEr rDrds, wtEn I bought this prolErty in 1952, I didn't
7g
Courci klan Bo!,t: It's rlot the consistent best option. I guess it's the best
one but itrs not tlEt it's necessarily'...
Citlz Courcil t€eting - Septenber U; 1989
7L
realize r rms buying a substardard lot. rt's not deep enough. At that tirne itwas rear big. r want to approach this frqn trec direclionr. - ri.si, llis 55 teetfron m1r horEe to the edge of the blacktop. rt makes ne a nice rar^,n out rront.In fact it's, r€1I there's 55 feet aI1 the. hE:, dordl from hrel I it rouia be about25 feet f rqn the legal edge of the road, lrhat the], or^,n to the @e of ttreblacktop. nf,w rrve mo$Ed that. KepE it rike a park if anlone r s gone alorgthere for 35 years but then r $rant to go back, way back in- hisbr! to l,'tren rboughE tlEt house. rt tJas the first one buirt on the olest Johnsan develolmentard at that tjrne it tras a township. In the Oounty Courthouse, that road vIasonly 2 rods wide. I rod on mw side ard I rod on the t<eru,1, Ker:berrs side. tboh'nd a farm where the !,lear lbuntain develo[ment is rpw. - Bud cask can attest tothat fact that none of orr(- abstracts said trnt trre to*nship owned 2 rods or a 4rod road- 2 rods on each side. !€ lEtitioned after, r think it was 1954, weIEtitioned the to*n board to have that road dustproofed sqnehow. lEu the],hashed that arourd for a whire ard decided that LtEy needed another rod frdo usand a rod on the north side frcrn the farrner, alr arong there. so ere ,,erehashirg this, decidirg wtrether ve shouLd give an easqnent for another rod or notuE UE farrner, Ienn:' Ierber r.ltrc now lives in Ari zona or Texas, sqner.Jtlere,offered to sell us all an extra rod on his side. 2 rods so it vDuldn'tinterfere with our proper tl' at all. vtri te rre rEre debating tfri.s, ola jofrn
Kerber wtt) was tte Chairrnan of the Toffii Board at that tirrE; scrnehowconvenientl:,, this i{ent on for quite a few months didn't it Brd? ttaybe 6months. Convenientl!, ttr. Kerper.- fourd in the deceaseil tor.m audi tor 6r treasureror htratever- ttrelz had, tovnship auditor, forrrri an articre that said this trad beeneased man!' :rears ago. WeIl r,,e donrt krow how many :rears ago. It t asn't in theCarver Count:, cour-thouse ard re donrt know. Olest Johnson] tne man *rooriginalry owned that is dead. I canrt check with him. I was going to have aIKlingeLhutz, the former: tblror, cqne arrl talk. Ihis kird of sn,r6k ui on rr..r wanted to get a letter frcm Kenny Kerber ard attest to that fact Lut r thinki E' s unfair that things
. have caught up. If I had knor.m this ms going tohappen, I r,rould have built a lDuse on that piece of protErt],,1,sif f6 lrears agoard got orrt of all this hasste. Brt events have caught- up witf, rne .ro, iArearly i.f laou grople rourd cqne rook at tlat propertl,, if scneone couldnr t builda big house there ard have a fine pieoe of grlssouf in front to mow ard 30 feetin back, the:r'd be over l0A feet frcn the nearest neigbbor r*rich is valr fartherthan all _of the deveLotments arourd there. Directly south of ne the1, lut Selecgs of pToper tl, on I acr-e of land. I,lcv, that's it tS,gOS "q,-ru.. ?6t p"..TtEtrs within the last 5 ]rears. ItE front of those 1ots there is 30 feet ;ide.fu BgL" are 259. t! piece of prolErt!' rculd be a nice rectangular spot. Easyto. build on ard everyEhing. l$uld need a little bit of fill proUaUty.-
otherwise all itrs good for is to look at ard for me to mow ard Itm gettingtired of it. Thank you.
l,talror Ctmiel : ttnnk 1ou. Any questions?
@uniilman Johnson: yeatl. Jo Ann or pauf or Sharurin. Hcw wide is theright-of-rmy tlrere? lrotal right-of-my frcru pleasant Vieer.
CarI l&Nutt: Therers 66 feet on rqz erd ard right arourd the corner it goes dovnto 33-
Jo Arm Olsen: hbrve got the full right-of-m1z at that point.
City Council l4eeting - Septqnber Il, 1989
Courci lman Johnson: l€ got full 66 at this point. Does that go all ttE vra:, out
to Ttl l0I is 56 feet?
Jo Aryl Olsen: I bel ieve so.
courci lnEn Johnson: thatrs not much for front :,ards for scne of the people
further t{) TH I0I.
Carl lallrtt: AII along that place the1,'ve all built the same eElr. Years ago,
they're aII tte sanre setback. But r€ tnow it an},na1z. . .ltey' 11 never need it
unless they run a freeway through there.
Courci lnlan Johnson: I mow ttE r ight-of-wa], in front of mlr house too. ltpn rtpn
r€ get to the curb, re drop to 33 feet?
Jo Ann Olsen: !*rich crrrb is that?
Jo Ann Olsen: I donrt krlow exactL:, wtrere it starts but it gets narrohrel...
Counci lman Johnson: In general. tbw man:, feet off of, the argment sesns to be
instead of going, do r,e need 66 feet of right-of-way there ard has there been a
calcrrlation done to see how man], feet it tlas to be narrowed i.n order for him to
get Eo L5,O$O stardard?
carl tbNuEt: 9 v2 f@t.
It I s not a wtple lot r*len \rou
Courci Iman Johnson: lihat he should be first requesting is vacation of [Ert of
the street easqnent in order to get the proper width there. Then tlnt r.ould
solve tle problen. vtrEt's the classification of this? Collector?
Councilran Bo:rt: Yes.
Courci lman Johnson: Ard all clllectors have 66 feet? 0r most collectors have
66 feet. Sqne collectors have 56 feet. Pick ore of tte three.
Carl. !b!,lutt: Can I ask anotlEr question? $tEn $as this nrade a c$Ilector? I
don't think it was ever made a colLector. lteyr ve added derrelolments aII alorg
that for ]ears ani es[Eciall:t in ttp last 5. So it beccrnes a collector row Yeah
because everlbody uses it but itrs just a little old countrlr road.
Oouncilman Johnson: For ttte protErtlr orrer, if he bel ieves t}lat this
right-of-m:, uas taken wi thout an:t cqntEnsation, tlEtrs a lorg tinE ago. Irmrpt sure uhat kird of legal recourse he rrcu1d have.
Mayor emiel: I donrt krDlr. l,laybe Roger can address that. vbuld there be anl,
other recourse?
72
Cotrcilman Johnson: hltren r,e get to the qul'b b:' ltapper's Pass? ltp new
addition there it drolE to 33 feet?
Jo Ann Olsen: I{e haven't done that calculation.
do Ehe whole lergEh of there.
courcirman Johnson: t\s. far as his prediction that this ras just taken ard therewas no real records of it being taken. tb eEsnrt paid for ii or an:,ttring, tl|atitrs not a legal right-of-wa:r.
@er Knutson: !,ttrat is it crrrb to curb?
GaIy Warren: ActrEll:, it's 73 feet of r ight-of-.ray.
Courcilman Johnson: Itris has 73 feet of right_of_rdap
Gaq' warren: Eran this...section it rooks rike it's 23 feet there. chargesinmediateLy '"est of that to...but there is a little jog tl,.re in front of hisProIErt), that looks like it's 73.
fbrb-Cast: lry name is tbrb Cast. I live 2 doors east of Olrl!, ltNrtt ardthatrs a rear prett:, map )Du've got there but i,hen pleasant vi; Rod was made,it ras a dirt road ard tiE tor,mship took 33 feet off tlp front or o* piop".trr.AII of our plantirEs ard evel':rEhirg went at that tirrE ard that map has'been madesirce tlpn. Egbabry even a date on it ard if you could fird tlre rnap that whenmy house was built in 1959, it's going to rook i 1ot di fferent than that.
Cnr], IErren: Irm just saf ing ncw on the Count:, records it shor,rs a 23 foot
r ight-of-ra:, .
Roger Knutson : It can be estabL ished in many r€]rs . Gre is by use . tlrder aState Statute, if the City or Oount:r- or wtroever,-rnaintains a -street for 6 !/ears,plows it and takes care of.it, lhe city owns it by adverse po"".""ion-u,,t tr.:,onl1, or.n the traveled portion prus EtE shourders necessar-y !o maintain it.
courcilman Johnson: 73 feetrs a rittle wide for tlnt particurar road.
Oourci lr,Icrnan Dimler : . . . scrr* back does that make his lot confoming?
courcilman Boyt: Nc it doesnrt. rt doesn r t have enough. Even then he needs 9L/2 un he gets 3 r,/2 assming that half of that 73 is on ttre norttr siae arr:half of it's on tlre south side. tte gets 3 V2 arrd he needs 9 l,/2.
Councilwqnan Dimler: Can rre have staff look at that?
l,talor CtmieL : yes.
oourcilman Johnson: Brt on tlE straight nerits of the variarce, r think neprobabl), ought to mo\re to derl:r the variarE but...
t'h1or ctmier: Brt before re deny ttnt variarce, etnt I'd like to do is havestaff take a close rook at this. oorE rp with a c!rcLusion as to ntEt is rearl:,needed to be in conformarce with that total footage.
Jo Ann Olsst: You mean as far as vacatirg a portion of the right<f_rraf
l'tayor ctmier: rJght. Ard determine that arri then cqne back to us with thatansher ard I think that rE:, we can cqrE rp wi ttr a conclusion.
73
Citlz @wril lEeting - Septernber Il, t9g9
Citlt Oouncil lEeting - Septqrber 11, 1989
parrl [(rause: lt. tta]ror, I'd like to point out that it's probabl:' possible,
deperding on how much right-of-walt the City is wilring to bicker with, cfire 14)
with a lot ttlat meets ttE area requirenent but there's stiU goirg Eo be a Iot
depth variance ard that vDn't go aeE:t.
Courcilman Bo:rt.: That won't nnke it then.
lra:ror Ctmiel :it then?
okalr. Even if 1ou lnd that, it rrculd not make an1. dif fererce to
Jo Aru Olsen: Yorr'd still have a variance.
l.lavor Clmiel :You'd still require a variance to v'rhatr s existing?
Jo Ann Olsen: D(actl)'.
Corrrci lman Johnson: Ard lrou rcnrt meet the hard*rip becarse bers got adequate
use of ttE propert:, as a single fanill' horE.
Courci lKman Djmler : I guess I had a question Jo Ann, or sthoever wants to
answer it. If ),ou do then, sal, that uE vnuld allow this just hlrPothetically, 1,€
have 2 non-conforming uses that are now lots of record right?
Courci heman DiJnler: If t{e approve it they beccme lots of record. Is the bu],er
of that lot there have to c-ore in for variarces?
Jo Ann olsen: t\b. Itrs been approved as a Iot of record.
Councilr,ranan Dimler: So ttey can build without any variarces?
Jo Ann olsen: As Iong as thel, can rneet all the setbacks.
Courcitman Bo:'t. The!, probabl:' could. !$e11, given the lot depth problgn, I
would move denial of this variance.
Corrci lman Johnson: fb's existing ron-conforming to lot depth at this time?
His existirg trcnre. He's a legaL non-conforming as r.,e d iscussed earlier.
CarI ltNutt: AII tlre people along there are too close to the road.
Courci lman Johnson: So aII tte lots along Pleasant View are legal
non-confoming lots? I donrt krow whether that rnakes any difference. lte
difference is goirg to be if the legislatrrre passes the new laus on how we
decide variances. At this point r"e're tied by state law.
Courcilman Bo:'E: tlave !'ou got a secord?
Oourcilnun Jobnson: Yeah, IrlI seconl that.
lEyor Ctmiel: Iim havirg discrrssion here ard...
Courci Itnan Bolrt.: You can discuss. I{e just have a motion on t}re floor.
74
Jo Ann O1sen: If lrou aPprove the...
City Council lGeting - Septsnber 1l; 1989
cor:nci lman Johnson: Into pleasant vi.err.
Jo Ann Olsen: fb has to have 125.
5 feet into tlle asptralt.
l,tayor Ctrniel: hb have a motion on ttE floor with a secord arrl :,our re sa:,irg todeny the proposal? Is that correct?
Corncilman Bo]&: yes. I.m salring ttEt because no matter how r.e cut this, thelot wiu not have sufficient aipur so t*;;rdL creatirg a rot that eras non-conforming ard it doesn't nreet ihe criterii.-- -
l,ta)ror Ctmiet : EVen if tE had that g V2 teet.
CourciLnan Bo]rt: It stitl rouldn't make it.
!'layor ctmiel: rt sti[ r^,on't make it but r.Durd the cit], be willirg to give q)additionar footage on tlrat to nake ttat inio i--r,ro.*r,". and how n*ny morefeet rould that take?
Gar)' IErren: r don't know q*ere the roadray lies at this mqnent in relation tothe right-of-h81, I ine.
Courci Inan Johnson: It salrs 25 feet. 25 feet frorn his propert!, Line is theasphalt in the drawino ard to get rzs footr-tre,s at gz foot now so itrd be aboutto the cenEer of tfre ioaO.
Gar:, IGrren: I€rd have to vacate to ttle center of the road?
Jo Ann Olsen: He's got a 33 foot right_of_my ard it oqnes up to 3g feet.
Courcilrrqnan Djrtler: Itrs not going to rDrk.
l,tayor Gmiel: tb. I don't think it will unfortunatel]r.
CarI ltNutt: Vitla t kird of houses are re buildirg in Chanhassen...
courrci lman Johnson: rtrs not as much that as it is tle state raw that requiresus to how r€ f'rction on variarces. - o:ite s5.rryle *e need to "ulairiJ"-:.*house is the need for econqnic profitl yoo-ti. reasonabre use of lour lard.
Carl tttirtt: titro canre ,+) I1tt this-125 foot depth? you people. It doesn, tnatter erhether t€ c(nE r.[) here ard discuss it. I,m... l'aoi;[-caiJ ---
IErticularl],. r can see that rrm lost tere u,rt it rearry iiLH-&t * "*crrrE rp here ard have arr kirds of discussions rirc uetiiJi;, -G L.i*g"tbuse, tlE ord ctturch r*as -facing dor,n here. t€ can Frt our inFrt'in-- te can aoall this stuff. i{tp decides iti you S peopLe. I d;n,t fifre jt. ----
CourciLnan Johnson: ltcw do t€ 5 people get here?
Oourcilnan BolrE: Ja:r, letrs vote ct this ard get going.
Carl lEltutt : I'lalbe lrou t re not going to be here the next tinre .
75
City Council lbeting - Septqnber 11, f989
Courci lman Bo:rt moved, Courci lman Johnson secorded to den:, ttle ap[Eal to the
decision for a ]ot area and lot depth vatiance, I85 Pleasant vier., Road, CarllENutt. A11 voted in favor ard the motion carried.
Courci lman Boyt: ,'r1". 16:'0r, I would move that r€ adjourn.
oouncilman Johnson: Secorrl.
l,lalor Gmiel: I rrould nrake tlnt rnotion tlEt r€ carry through with tlre balance
of the meetirg at our Vlednesday budget work session at 6.39.
Oorucitnan l{crknan: I*to are these people?
Oourci tnan Johnson: Yeah. lE do ha\re another grorry of citizens here too.
tlalDr Ctmiel : Yes. l$as there scneone here rtp sas. . .
oourci Iman Johnson: Eor another isste.
Courcitrnn Boyt: GEtrs a good hour's discrrssion.
Resident: lErre here with tte lEar l,buntain discussion.
l,layor Ctmiel: Itre zub anerdnent?
Resident: !{e' re. . . Pleasant Viehr trqneowners that tEve this corrern with I'ouplannirg to open rp that emergerc], acE€ss on Irdian HilI ard serd irg more cals
dohn Pleasant View Road again.
!,ta)ror Gmiel: Is that tfE i tsn 14.5?
Corrrcilman Johnson: Yes.
l,tayor Cmiel: I kould like to take this at ttris tjme but with I jrnited
discrrssions. Directly Eo the points ard then r{e can go fror there.
ltin Slrkes 3 I've looked at this propertlt a mmber of years, a nrrnber of tjmes.
!,ta:ror cfmiel : !{ouLd lou Like to cqne r]I) to t}e microplrore please?
Oounci Lrran Johnson: BilI, do r.re erant to rrithdraw our fiption ard seclrd?
Counci lman Bo:tE: Irm willirg to go until until 25 after ard then I'm leaving.I hope r€ adjourn before tlren.
lur Seifert: I'll jr:st make this real quick. I€ rEre sitting here wi.th, we
canE q) wi tt! ttF Pleasant Viet, tlcmeoerners gror{, ard m1z nane is $dn Seifert. 609
Pleasant View Road. Orr conc€rn ms, wtten r€ were l.{) here t€ ran into geter
Pflarm ard his group an, they said they were on the agerda because lrou lrere
going to open W or ttre City staff r€s requesting that tlle €mergenc!, access tlEt
vras platted a nwrlcer of lzears back for the Near l&untian develoFnent reuld be
opened back up for scne reason and serri ing nrore traffic dorrrr Indian Hill Road
onto Pleasant Vie{^, Road. Do I ttave this wrorg?
'76
Citlr Oourcil tceting - Septsnber lf ; 1989
Counci lman Bolt:f don I t think Lhat !/ias one of the . . .
Courcllman Johnson: I think it,s as an enErgerEl, access. Not as a street.
l,layor Grniel: Strictly as an emergerEy.
Lirda Kramer: : r'm Lirda Kraner and I live on rrdian Hill had and r have a rear.i.nterest in this because r0 years ago wtren it uas discui""d ;; ;-;..g;r-yentrance, it ras going to be sonetlring nith an arm or scrE kird of denrice socars lrere rot usirg the road -gld I all ver:/ ctorcerned tonight hear ing that thecjfr. is. proposing having traffic frcrn reai rbuntain 9o aoin rnaiin irir.i-no"awhich, have an1, of you been on Irdian HiLl bad?
l,layor Ctmiel : yes.
Lirda Fsanrer: Okay. Ite grade is twice as steep as :rour cit!, stanlard for aroad ard at the botton on ttE hilr is a sharp so aegr& curve- with ro sightdistance ntntsoever arrt it iourd be a. verl', rr".1, pd. road to have any-lratric
!::p, ?! all- so I t nuld propose sqne kird-of arir or scnetiirg where .i.ig"..yvehlcles could use it but cars could not get through.
l'layor Gmiel: r think that'!s basicalry tlb intent as to ttE use on that.
Cor:rcilman !{crknan: I'm rpt srrre stere t}nt road is. Gn }rou show me on a rnap?
f4ayor Ctmiel: Jo Ann, do:pu have a map to stlow Tfip
Courci lman Bo]'t: !E have a map right here.
courcilman Johnson: rtrs on ttE front of your thirg. see that one that sa\6Iroquois?
@urcilman Wcrlqltan: yes-
Counci lrnan Johnson:Thatrs Irdian HilI bad.
Does that makes sense? It salrs Iroquois but itrs Irdian
Courcilman Johnson: Iroquoisr a t![E of indian.
Gar:, Warren: Ttey changed. . .
l'!a1pr Ctmiel: Dc :,ou have it? Basicall:,, Jo ttnn eDu.Ld you clarify ttnt?
Jo Ann Ols€n: tet rne clari4, that. ltlat t as in a cordition that stiLl gotcarried over and it should have been removed but staff had originalll, stror*r ttrep1ans. ard specs rrhich show a secord street acrcess through Ort1;t C Uut ttePLanning Ccrmission agreed. tlut it should jgst ue ont1, is a secardtt; .r=.g*,"y,access ard thatrs erlEt re have to work on ttE plars ard specs to foriow thatthrough.
Courci lercrnan Dimler :fli1r.
7'7
Citlt Courcil lEeting - Septqnber 11, 1989
@unci Lnan Johnson:
Outlot A rp there?
1 6fprryht the snergerc), access was up on ?raplEr ' s pass.
Jo Arm Olsen: thatrs j r:st going to be a tr:ail. that's not 9oin9 to be. l,Eybe
I'm gettirq them confused.
Mike Pflatn: I could perhaps clarify a couple of questions tlrat r€ had and doit in 30 secords hopefull:/ ard get out of :,our !ia],. |ry nane is t"tike Pflarm. I'm
wi th Lurdgren Bros. Oonstruction. With me here tonight are Rick Sathre, the
consultirg erg ineer for tle proj ect ard Peter Pflaun, m:' brother, the Presidentof Lr:rdgren Bros.. Iroquois lane issue has already been brought up. ltre only
reason that r€ lrere c!rcernd, as also has been explained, the reccrmerdation of
the Planning Ccnmission r.ras different frcn tle recormerxlation tIEt r€s shown in
the report for the reccnmerded City Oourcil action ard ttnt was just I guess anerror. ltrere are tttD other issues that r€re of concrern to rls. O€ relates to
park ard the general consensus of ttle Park Cormission, the Plannirg @nmission
ard the interested neighbors rEs that it eDuld be desireable for ttre City to
acquire park in the area of ttE pro[Erty that is shosn as [ot. 7 an] 8. I€ were
not overj olted by this but r€ can urderstand tle benefits of it. - the tle points
I'd like to make are first, there $ras an error at the Parks Cormission level as
to !',ha t I0B of tlE proPert!, equated to. 109 of tlle protrErtl, equates to 3.9
acres, not 4.5 acres ard it just so haptrEns, coircidentally that Lot 7 ard 8 ard
tlre trail outlots ctrnbined equf :.S acres r*rich is a happ1, coincidence. Orr
desires, if tbe1, rculd be heard regarding PaLk is ttEt it be strictly a passive
natrrre observation q{E rlse. It's on Silver f.ake and that does present greaE
oFPortunit:/ for that. I€ ltould tppe that the Cit:. rculd accept de€d
restrictions prohibiting pr:lc1 ic aceess, txicl ic boat access or the develotrment of
the site into scmethirg other than a passive use. He ard the people who live in
close proximit!, to tle pa.rk area, the future proposed [Erk area, are verlt
corcerned that it rlot trrrn into an active recreational use. The other issue was
one that !€ have visited before ard that is sidemlks. In t}le subdivision that
he were proposirg on the top of the nountain, the Parks Cqrmission reconmerdeil
the construction of a sidemlk, 5 foot wide concrete sideualk on the street that
loops tlE top of the hiII. There are rp other sidewatks anylhere in tibar'llorrrtain. ltri s issue ras raised just a year ago with the addition of Trap[Er's
Pass 3rd at a preliminar:, stage. The Cit], Courcil at that time felt that
sidewalks ltere not necessar:/ there because of itrs inclusion as part of the llear
lbunta jr project. !€ feel itrs unnec.essary bere also ard just as a point offact, the Parks @mission, wlnn tley made their reconmerrlation. I eras at tllerEeting. there was a split vote. ltte vote in favor of their reccnmerdation was
4 to 3. the 3 Fople that voted against the recqrnrerrlation voted against the
reccnmerdation because thelr were not in favor of a corcrete trail arourd ttehilltop. ltre Plannirg Ccnnrission chose to rsnain silent on this question
because they did not feel it nas appropriate for the plannirg @rmission to be
secord gtessing tte rnotives of another advisorlz body. !€ would like to see thecsrcrete trail go ara1, ard r*eid like to see tlE connectirg trails frqtr TralX)errs
EEss belos, on tlle one side and dohyr to pleasant View lane on the ottrer. Either
uoodchips, crushd rek or bitunirDus. What I beard earlier tonight ard wtr,at I
sesned to have read in the report is that bituninous is the staff'sreccrmerdation. I guess woodchips rculd be our reccnmenlation. Be:'ord that,IrIl be more than happy ard Rick Sathre rmuld be more than happy ard Beter rDuld
be more than haEtr to ansvrer any questions lou rrray have regarclirg our proposal.
l{a are naning this project the surmit at t€ar }bu1tain. I€ feel it will be a
trqnenalorls asset to the cqmunit:r ard a real shorrcase develo[ment. Thank you.
78
Citlz C-or:ncil tGeting - septernber U; 1999
Counc i ]Jnan Bo:.L : lihat thi s?
@uncilran'ylcrknan: yes.
Counci hlan Boyt: Lr) ]rou vlant to be here rrntil 1:30?
be.
I can asslme you re will
!,layor Gmiel: tlo.
courci Iman Johnson: rtlere I s a tot of discussion to go along l*rether hE atrx)!.-ovethis anendnent or not.
t'tayor Grnier: therers a motion on tlle floor with a secord for adjourrment to becarried over until l{ednesday of this week at 6:39 here i.n the cou-rcil c}Emberswith the balance of our bualget rcrk session. At 6:30 p.m..
Counci lman Johnson: llhen was our bu@et work schedrrled for?
l4ayor Grniel :6139.
I have a question. Is there going to be more discussion of the
IGyor (tmiel : Yes.
Lj.rda l(raner: Gl Wednesda)' night?
Lirda Kraner :
Irdian Hill?
I.layor Ctmiel: Yes. As far as Irdian Hill is concrerned, itrs just. going to beused as snergerc:, access tEriod. so if you'd like to cqne back to risten to ttebalance of vrtat tlle presenter has , you I re rnore tllan r€Icqlle. I€ ' d love to see
:'ou.
@uncilman Johnson: Jo Ann? So itern 14 was not--.
Jo Ann Olsen: It stbuld have been taken out.
Courci Iman Johnson: Should have been deleted.
courci lman Bo:rt moveal, courcilman Johnsdr seconded to adjourn ttle nreetirg. Arrvoted in favor and tlE motion carried. r?re nreetirrg rdas adjour-ned at l2:i0 a.m..
Suhni tteal b:, Don Asttworti, Cit:, ManarEer pretEreal b:. Nann @tteim
79
counci lman Johnson: ltre real issue tonight is whether it should stal, tt= wa:, itused to be anl ve don't need to get into ttEt tonight.
l4ayor Ctmiel : tJo .
Courci lman Bo:rt: I rrrculd move that r€ adjourn.
CounciLrnan Johnson: I secord.
Councilman !^Icrknan: I& donrt need to approve t}te anerrlment or an:rthing?
CITY OF
EH[NH[SEEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. PO. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900-. FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ :
Sharmin Al-Jaff, Planner
Charles Fo1ch, Ass i stant
October 12, L990
Preliminary Plat Review
90-28 r,UR
I
City Engineer q
of Troendle Addition
This site is comprised of 8.7 acres
south of Pleasant View Road west ofnorth of Carver Beach Estates.
of rolling terrain locaEed
Vineland Forest Addition and
9anitary Sewer
Municipal sanitary sewer service is available to the site
from the Vineland Forest Addition to the east. The sanitary
ser4rer is proposed to be extended from the connection point on Nez
Perce Drive to approximately I75 reet rrest at the intersectionwith the proposed Troendle Way then extended south throughTroendle Way.
The proposeo sanitary sewer system will provide service to themajority of the lots in this subdivision sith the exception ofLots l and 4, Block 1. tocs l and 4 will need to cut intoPleasant View Road to make the neetled sanitary serviceconnection. It should also be noted that all of the sanitary
sehrer sha11 be 8-inch and have a minimum graale of 0.4t.Applicant sha1l provide detail plan and profiles of the sanitarysewer for final review and approval by the city engineer.
Watermain
The plans submitted propose to connect to the existing watermainstub on Nez Perce Drive and extend to the west including alateral service to the south for Troendle Way. It is anticipatedthat future extension of the watermain on Nez perce will connectinto the existing watermain on Peaceful Lane.
Sharmin
Oc tobe r
Page 2
A1-Ja f f
I2, 1990
Eight-inch size watermain will be required on Nez Perce Drive.Applicant sha11 submit detail plans for the watermain for finalreview and approval by the city engineer. The fire marshal shallverify adequate hydrant location and spacing.
Streets
The plans submitted propose a standard urban city street of 3Ifeet wide back-of-curb to back-of-curb within a 50 footright-of-way for both Nez Perce Drive andl Troendle way. Theradius of the right-of-iray for the cu1-de-sac on Troendle Way isproposed to be 50 feet. The current City stanalard radius ofright-of-way for an urban cul-de-sac is 60 feet, thus, theapplicant shalI make the not.ed change.
This plan submitted is not totally consistent with the previously
approved concept plan (see attachment) rf,hich displayed anailditional cuI-de-sac north of Nez Perce Drive. The need forthis cu1-de-sac has been somewhat eliminated by the proposed plan
which displays a four-large lot layout.
Currently, Lot 2, Block t has a private driveway access from
Pleasant View Road. It is recommendeal that this driveway be
eliminated and access be changetl to Nez Perce Drive. Lot 3,Block I will also have driveway access off of Nez Perce Drive,
however, actual driveway access locations should be clearly shown
on the final submittal. By necessity, Lots l and 4, Block 1 vrill
have access to Pleasant View Road. In an effort to minimize the
number of driveways on this well traveled road, it is recommendedthat a sharetl driveway be constructed and this shaLl be locatedto maximize sight distance and reduce safety problems with a
corresponding cross-easenent as necessary.
Grading and Drainage
The najority of the site grading will take place south of the Nez
Perce Drive. The proposed grailing will yielil a drainage schemesimilar for the most part with that existing, which primarily
drains to the northlrest. A proposed detention pond and controlstructure is shown on the plan submitted, however, actual
Construction of a temporary cu1-de-sac will be required at thewest end of Nez Perce Drive. This cu1-de-sac will require
temporary barricatling with signage noting it as a future roadextension. This temporary cul-de-sac may also require a
temporary easement, pending the final design layout, which wilt
be vacated with the future road extension.
calculations for the predeveloped and developed 100-year, 24-hour
runoff discharge rates will need to be submitted to verify the
pond capacity. The majority of the runoff from this site will be
conveyetl through storm sewer to this detention pond. Storm sewer
calculations for the entire system will also need to be submitted
at the time of final review.
Erosion Control
The plan submitted shorrs erosion control silt fence along the
rear yard areas of Lots 2 through 6, Block 2 and downstream of
the outlet structure for the detention pond. It is recommencled
that silt fence also be installed around the ponding basin until
turf is established. The site should be seeded and mulched
immediately following grailing operations to minimize erosionpotential.
Recommended Conditions
The cul-de-sac on Troenalle way sha1I have a radius ofright-of-way of 50 feet and Troendle l{ay sha1l be moilif ieil inthe name to be either Troendle Circle or Troendle Court to
eleviate any confusion in the name, implying it to be a
through street.
The applicant shaIl install erosion control silt fence aroundthe ponding area unLil such time that turf is established.
One strip of sod shall be placed behind all curbing. Entiresite shal1 be seeded anil mulched immetliately followinggrading operations.
Staff recommends a shared driveway access off of Pleasant
View Road for Lots I anil 4, Block 1. This common tlrivewayshal1 be located to minimize safety concerns and constructedto a 7-ton design, 20 feet wide and have a maximum grade of10t. A correspondling cross-easenent shall be provided.
Driveway access locations for all lots shall be shown on thefinal subnittal.
4. Appropriate drainage and utility easements sha1l be provideil
on the plat as follows:
The drainage and utility easements along the rvesterlyproperty lines of Lots 9, 10 and 11, Block 2 and theponding area on Lots 3 and 4, Block l that are shown onthe grading anil erosion control plan shall also be shoern
on the preliminary plat accordingly.
1
2
3
a
Sharmin Al-Jaff
October 12, !99O
Page 3
Sharmin AI-Jaff
October 12, 1990
Page 4
b. The acquisition of a drainage easement ihrough theproperty immediately reest of Lots 3 and 4, Block I willbe required for the discharging of the detention pond.
The applicant sha1l submit storm sewer calculations verifyingsize and capacity of the storm sewer system and pondingbasin. Eight-inch sanitary sehrer at a minimum grade of 0.4tshall be constructed on this subdivision anil service loca-tions for all of the lots on this plat shall be shown forfinal submittal review. Detail final plans and specifica-tions for street and utility construction shaIl be submittedto the city engineer for review and approval.
5. Applicant shall obtain and comply with all requirements ofthe Pollution Control Agency, Health Department and WatershedDistrict.
Jms
Attachmen t
5
Gary Warren,
Dave Hempel,
City Engineer
Sr. Engineering Techni cian
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ALTERNATIVE 3
CITY OF
EHINHISSTN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937- 1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Don Ash\.rorth, City ltanager
FROM: Paul Krauss, Director of Planning
Dave Hempel, Sr. Engineering Technician
DATE: September 8, 1989
SUBJ: Alternative Access ConcePts for the Vineland Forest
Subilivision ll8 9- 8
BACKGROUND
On August 28, 1989, the City Council reviewed the Preliminaryplat request for the Vineland Forest subdivision (see location
map). The plat as proposed illustrates the creation of 21 single
family lots accessed by a cul-de-sac from Pleasant view Road that
is approximately I250 feet long. The proposed plats and existing
homes are shovrn on an attachment.
Access into the pLat is the primary issue. Area resiilents raised
concerns over traffic on Pleasant View Road at the Planning
Commission meeting erith the result that the Commission was unableto reach a consensus on the plat. Staff recommended approval of
the plat conditioned on the addition of a southern outlet from
the plat, using Nez Perce right-of-way to intersect with Lake
Lucy Road. The inclusion of the southern outlet woulil result in
the creation of a north/south connection between Lake Lucy Road
and Pleasant View Road and also provide a second access as
requested by Public Safety.
At the City Councit meeting further discussion on access issues
was heard. A series of reviseil access concepts were introduced
by an architect representing honeowners located on Pleasant view
Road. The city Council ultimatety voted to continue the item to
give staff an opportunity to review access alternatives.
Deve I opment of Alternative Access Plans
Prior to preparing
number of issues.
alternative access plans staff considered a
These are describeil below as follows:
I Access plans for Vineland Porest should be designeil to serve
not only the site but also adjoining vacant and uniler-
developed parcels in a comprehensive Banner. For the Pur-
poses of this analysis, we have defined the study area' as the
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PROPOSED PLATS /EXISTING HOMES
Mr. Don Ashworth
September 8, 1989
Page 2
land locateil between Peaceful Lane on the rrest, Pleasant View
Road on Ehe north, the Fox Path neighborhood on the east, and
Lake Lucy Road on the south. We acknowledge that these par-
cels may not be developed in the same time frame. However,
we believe the overall access plan is essential if adequaCelevels of service are to be provided while minimizing neigh-
borhood and environmental disruptions. Existing platting antl
neighborhood's development pattern should be taken into
account to maximize feasibility of the concept and minimize
neighborhood disruotion.
2. Given the size of the study area, staff estinates that
aoproximately 55 homes could eventually be buiIt. Eachsingle family home will generage approximately 10 trios perday. This estimate is based upon the access and development
concept plans that are presented in this report. The plans
attempt to provide lots consistent with city developmentstandards. In our opinion, to aalequately serve this large anarea a through street connection is warranted. The connec-tion is i.mportant to being able to provide adequate 1eve1s ofservice for IocaI residents and reasonable emergency vehicle
response times. From the standpoint, of the larger,
surrounding neighborhood a north/south connection is con-sidered to be of benefit for traffic flow and emergencyvehicle access since it, would be the only connection bethreen
Polrers Boulevard and Lotus Lake.
Traffic 1eve1s on Pleasant Vier^, Road are a consideralion.
The street carries a fairly high traffic volume and is on thecity's state-aid system. Recent counts taken by the city
show traffic levels of somewhere betrreen 960 and 1300 ADT(average daily traffic) at the Vineland Forest site. An ADTof 1000 is commonly thought to be the ilividing line betweenLocal and collector streets. Portions of the street exist asa substandard design exacerbating traffic problems.
Potential Access Points into the Study Area
3
There are a series of roads and undeveloped rights-of-waycould provide access into the study area (see attachment).was revieweal to assess its feasibility for extension intoarea. These are describetl below:
I. Pleasant View Drive
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Adva n tage s
4. The access concept should result in a high quality residen-tial environment. Significant stands of trees and wetlanilsshould be protected. Cul-de-sacs should be created wherefeasible.
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September 8, 1989
Page 3
Di sadvant age s
2 Fox Path
Advantages
Disadvantages
Park Drive
Advantages
Kiowa Drive
Aalvantages -
Di sadvantages
Proviiles good access to thededicated light-of-way ( 40
access to Pohrers Boulevard
Road.
south via undevelopedfoot) and hasvia Lake Lucy
Street
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is built to substandard design andhigh traffic volumes. Neighborhood
and traffic safety considerations.
3
Ability to use an unilevelopeil, dedicated right-of-way, north/south alignment that could serveto create street connection, while eliminating
an existing over-length cu1-de-sac.
Connection is extremely ilifficult to make, dueto severe grades and environmental impacts.Also, potential neighborhood opposition inFox Chase if through street considered. Itis not considered to be feasible.
(Nez Perce )
Grade on Park Drive is a concern. However,
upon further investigation it was concludedthal- a maximum 10t grade with a 40 foot longlanding area at 2t graile at the street inter-section could be provided and that gradinglimits are acceptable. Staff believes this isa reasonable alternative from a design stand-point. Sketches showing street profileoptions and grading limits are attached.
4 ( Hopi Road )
Undeveloped dedicated right-of-rray followingsimilar alignnent to but east of park Drive.
Very difficult grades are present. Streetconstruction sould result in extensive treeloss. Staff guestions if construction isfeasible. Access to powers Boulevard is notdirect. The street is presentLy constructedas a dead end serving several homes.Although right-of-way is dedicated to make aconnection to Powers Boulevarcl it is unlikelythat such a connection is feasible due tonetland and ponding areas.
DisadvanEages -
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hwor t h8, 1.989
5. Peaceful (Redman) Lane
Advantages -
Disadvantages - Approved ptat (which probably will expireOctober) may limit dlesign options. Wouldsti1l result in the introduction of trafficonto Pleasant view but this is off-set byshort distance to powers Boulevard.
The street is intended to serve the PleasantHills plat. The plat was given final approvalbut has not been fi1ed. Plat approval willexpire in October. Access through this area isreasonable and without serious difficulty.Provides reasonably good connection to the northwith east/west connection via Pleasant View
Road at a good location.
Carver Beach Es ta tes6Outlot A,
Advantages
Di sadvan!ages
Undevelopeal right-of-iray to Lake Lucy Road.Provides good access to the south.
Grades make access difficult. Proximity to
Powers Boulevard rnay make connection redun-dant.
Al terna *- i ves /Comment
There are a large variety of alternatives for serving the studyarea. Staff has atteRpted to limit the number of alternatives tcthose h,hich have been discussed previously and a new alternative,that in our opinion, represents the most reasonable remainingoption. The alternatives that have been studied are describedbelow along with comments derived from review criteriaestablished earlier:
This alternative is essentially the access option proposed bythe developer illustrating serving Vineland Forest by a longcul-de-sac from Pleasant View. The concept has been expandedto illustrate how the balance of the study area could beserved i.n a comprehensive manner.
Comment - The option illustrates the ultimate construction ofa street loop between the originally proposed Vineland Forest,/Pleasant View intersction to the Peaceful Lane dead end tothe west. The alternative wiII ultimately provide a stleetloop that should offer adeguate service internally nithin thestudy area. Construction of the street loop would be con-tingent upon the decisions of other property owners todevelop their land. As illustrated, the northern stub streetin Vineland Forest has been eliminated since, as proposed, it
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Mr. Don Ashworth
September 8, 1989
Page 5
cannot be built without the removal of a home on the
adjoining parcel. This revision has been repeated in the
three remaining alternatives as well.
Connecting to Pleasant View from Peaceful Lane rather thenthe original Vineland location to the east, could have abeneficial traffic inpact. We believe this would result from
Pleasant Lane's proximity Lo Powers Boulevard that should
help orient traffic to the hrest rather then east along
Pleasant View. The streets appear to be feasible from agrading standpoint and environmental impact is not
excess ive.
There are two significant problems with the alternative. Theloop street concept results in the fact that all of the traf-fic in the study area i{ill be required to use Pleasant View.
The second concern is that it does not provide any access otthe south thus eliminating the potential for a north,/southstreet connection.
The second alternative is the dual cul-de-sac optionillustrated by an architect working for the Pleasant View
area homeowners. To allow for a reasonable comparison thealternative was expanded to create a comprehensive accessplan for the st.udy area.
Comment - This option tends to split the access burden with
most of the traffic exiting south to take Lucy Road.Ultimately a connection would be made to the west to PeacefulLane. A small portion of the traffic r.rould exit directlyonto Pleasant view at the original Vineland Forest intersec-tion.
This alternative can be reasonably constructed based on gra-
des and environmental impacts are consistent rdith normal
resident j.al development. There is a north,/south street con-nection but the alignment is quite convoluted i,rhich presentsa problem for through movements. Distance traveled wiIl behigher as will emergency vehicle response times. Again,construction is contingent upon the development decisions ofadjoining property owners.
Staff attempted to start with a clean sheet of paper tocreate Alternative 3. The concept is based on a street looprunning from Lake Lucy/Nez Perce to Peaceful Lane.
Conment - The alignment is more direct then the one describedin Alternative 2. Street construction is reasonable, allstudy area parcels are served and high quality residential
environments will result. The south l of the Vineland platremains largely unchanged. The Peaceful Lane connection iscontingent upon the vacating or expiration of the Peaceful
2
3
Ur. Don Ashvrorth
September 8, 1989
Page b
Hills plat (due Eo expire in October). As -ieith Alternatives
1and 2 the construction of the street loop is contingent
upon development decisions of adjoining property owners.
4. The final alternative is the original staff recommendation
expanded to illustrate serving the entire study area. The
street connection between Lake Lucy Road'/Nez Perce and
Pleasant View is probably the best alignment for meeting
access needs throughout the neighborhoods surrounding the
study area since it is centrally located betr.reen Powers
Boulevard and Lake Lucy. As such it nay also have a greater
potential for introducing traffic increases onto Pleasant
View. A significant advantage is that the connection coulal
be constructed immediately without requiring the Par-ticipation of adjoining property owners.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
Staff continues to support the original access concePt
iLlustrated as Alternative 4. our reasons for this position area
based on the advantages of the alignment for the north./south con-
nection and the fact that it could be built immediately r{ithout
requiring participation by adjacent Property owners. The impor-
tance of the last factor should not be minimized. constructing
street extensions after a neighborhood has been developed is
often a controversial process.
If this option is not acceptable to the Council we would recom-
mend that Alternative 3 be selected since it meets the
established criteria while providing reasonable north,/south con-
nection.
Alternatives 2 and 3 would reguire a substandtial redesign of
Vineland plat. If Alternatives 2 or 3 are selected we would
recom.nend that the reguired be returneil to the Planning
Commission for reviel of a revised plat based upon your direc-
tions regarding access.
the
The Council should be aware that city staff does not have the
capability to prepare an indepth analysis of traffic Patterns.
We- believe the data presented in this report is reasonable baseC
upon our knowledge oi the subject. If a greater understanding of
this question is desired a consultant eroulal need to be retained
to prepare a computer model of the area. While this would pro-
vidL viluable information, it would involve aalditional time and
cost.
the CounciL should also be aware that regardless of which option
is selected, easements must be provided to construct sewer anil
water lines north to Pleasant View.
CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
MEMORANDI'M
TO:
FROM:
DATE :
SUBJ :
690 COULTER DRIVE ' PO. BOX .I47
' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Planning Commission
Todd cerhardt, IIFA Asst. Executive Direct or
October 11, 1990
Consideration of Approval of the llodification Plan forTIF District No. 2-1
The City Council at their October 8, 1990, neeting directed staffto prepare a nodification to the TIF District No. 2-L, for the
upgrade of Audubon Road. The attached TIF plan outlines the newestinated project costs for the proposed public inprovenent (see
Page 9 of the proposed TIF plan).
State law requires the PJ.anning Corornission find that thenodj,fications being proposed are consistent rrith the ConprehensiveP1an. Because the nodification involves the upgrade of AudubonRoad, the transportation section of the comprehensive Plan
designates Audubon Road in need of inprovenent because inadequatesight distance due to the curvature of the roadway (see Page 10 ofAttachment #3). Based on this infonnation, the nodifications tothe proposed plans would be consistent t ith the plans for
development of the City of Chanhassen.
RECOMMENDATION
Resolut ionTIF PlanTransportation Section
L
2
3
Staff reconmends the Planning conmission adopt the attachedresolution finding the Modified Plan for Tax Increment FinancingDistrict No. 2-1 consistent lrith the cityrs Conprehensive PIan andthe development of the City of Chanhassen.
ATTACHMENTS
PLA}TXING COXUISSION
CMY OP CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
RESOLUTION
Date
Motion By
Resolution No.
Seconded By
BESOLUTION TINDING THE MODIFIED
PLAN FOR TAX INCREMENT FINANCING
DISTRICT NO. 2-I CONSISTENT WITH
THE PLANS FOB DEVELOPMENT OF
THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN
WHEREAS, the City Council of the City of Chanhassen (Cityl 6s5 authorized
preparation of a modified plan (Plan) for Tax Increment Finaneing District No.2-l;
end
WHEREAS, the modified Plan has been submitted to the planning
eommission to review regarding its eonsistency with the plans for development of
the City as a whole; and
WHEBEAS, the planning commission has made a thorough review of the
modified Plan and has compared it with the plans for development of the City as a
whole.
NOW, THEREFORB, BE IT RESOLVED By the planning commission of the
City of Chanhassen, Minnesota as follows:
1. The modified Plan is found to be consistent with the plans for development
of the City of Chanhassen as a ryhole.
2. It is recommended that the City Couneil of the City of Chanhassen hold the
publie hearing required by lew and approve and sdopt the modified Plan.
Passed this day of 1990, by the Plenning Commission of
the City of Chanhassen, Minnesota.
ATTEST:
Secretary
cH130-11
Chairperson
ffir/,,"/f
E f,
UODTFIED DEYEIOPIETI ?NOOTAI
DEYEloPrEll? Dlarllcr xo. !
AtID
roDr?tED lAr lllciErExl ?lf,Axclto ?LAx
rAx tiloRErExT FtxAxotxo Drarttct xo. r-r
GI?Y OF GHAX'IAt'EX
0CToBER 22, 1990
++
II{ODIFIED DEVELOPI,IENT PROGRA.|,I
DEVELOPIIENT DISTRICT NO. 2
and
MODIFIED TAX INCREUENT FINANCING PLAN,
TAX INCRE!.{ENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO. 2-1
CITY OF CEANEASSEN, IiTINNESOTA
0ctober 22, t99O
Prepared by:
Eolnes & Graven, Chartered
ll70 Pillsbury Center
Uinneapolis, ltN 55{02
16121337-9262
Section I
Section II.
Subsection A
Subsection B
Subsection C
Subsection D
Subsection E
Subsection F
Subsection c
Subsection Il
Subsection I
Subsection J
Subsection K
Modified Development Program for DevelopnentDistrict No. 2
Definitions
Statutory Author ity
Statement of Objectives . .
Environmental Cont roI s
Open Space to be Created. . .Public Facilities to be Constructed . .
Proposed Reuse of Property.
Development District Financing.Adninistration of Development District.Rehabilitation..
Description of Development District . .
Modified Tax Increment Financing Plan for Tax
Increment Financing District No. 2-I
Statutory Authority
Statement of Objectl.ves . .
Statement of PubIic Purpose
Development District Prog ram.Description of TIF Di str i ct
Developnent District ContractsClassification of tIF District. . .Modification of TIF P1an. .
Use of Tax Increment. . .
Excess Tax Increment. . .Limitation on Increment . . .Limitation on Administrative ExpensesLinitation on Boundary Changes. . . .
Relocat ion.
Parcels to be Acquired eithin TIFDistrict.
TIF Account
Estimate of Costs
Estinate of Bonded Indebtedness ... .Original Assessed Value .
Estimate of Captured Assessed Value .
Duration of TIF District.Alternate Estimates of Impact on Other
Taxing Jurisdictions
Annual Financial Repor tNotification of Prior Planned
Improvements . .
Assessnent Agreements
1
2
2
3
3
3
3
4
4
4
5
5
5
6
6
6
6
6
7
7
7
8I
9
Page
11
12
Subsection A
Subsection B
Subsection C
Subsection D
Subsection E
Subsection F
Subsection C
Subsection H
Subsection I
Subsection J
Subsection K
Subsection L
Subsect ion Iq
Subsection N
Subsection O
Subsection P.
Subsection 0.
Subsection R.
Subsection S.
Subsection T.
Subsection U.
Subsection V.
Subsection w.
Subsection x.
Subjection Y.
13
13
Table of Contents
9
9
9
9
9
10
10
SECTION I. !{ODIFIED DEVELOPTI{ENT PROGRAII FOR DEVELOPI4ENT
DISTRICT NO. 2
A. Definitions
"Cityu means the City of Chanhassen, a municipal
corporation under the larrs of the state of Minnesotai
"Comprehensive Plan" neans the City's Comprehensive Plan,
including the objectives, policies, standards and Programs to
guide public and private Iand use, development, redeveloPment
and preservation for all lands and water lrithin the City,
For the purposes ofTax Increment Fi nancingthe meanings speci fied
requi res:
"City Council"
Counc i 1 ;
"CityStatutes
"Council" means the Chanhassen City
Development District Act" or means
Sections 469.124 through 469.134, as amended;
li!innesota
"County" means Carver County, Minnesota;
"Development District" means Development District No.
which was established on October 10, I988, pursuant to and
accordance with the City Developnent District Act, and which
hereby being expanded;
2
inis
"Development Program" or "Program" neans
Program for Development District No. 2, shich
Council on October 10, 1988, and is hereby being
"Project Area"
Development Distr ict
Prog ram;
"Project" means2, as descr ibed
the Development
adopted by the
modified;
property withinthe Development
Tax IncrenenEestablished on
or
No.
the
in
"State" means the State of llinnesotai
"Tax Increment Bonds" means any general obligation or
revenue tax increment bonds issued by the City to finance thepublic costs associated with Development District No. 2 asstated in the Program and in the Plans for all Tax Increment
Financing Districts within Development District No. 2 or any
obligations issued to refund the Tax Increment Bonds;
"Tax Increment Financing District" tneansFinancing District No. 2-]-, shich iras
1
the Development District Program and
Plan, the following terms shaII have
below, unless the context otherwise
October 10, 1988, pursuant to and in accordance with the TIF Act
and which is hereby being expanded;
"TaxStatutes,edi and
fncrement Financing Act"
Sections 469.174 through
or "TIF
469.179,
Act" means
inclus ive ,
Minnesota
as amend-'
"Tax Increment Financing PIan" or "PIan" means the TIF PIanfor TIF District No. 2 which was adopted by the Council on
October 10, 1988, and which is hereby being modified.
B. Statutorv Author i ty
The City has determined that it is necessary, desirable andin the public interest to establish, designate, develop andadminister a Developnent Program for Development District No. 2in the City, pursuant to the provisions .of the Act. The City
has also determined that the funding of the necessary activitiesand improvements i.n Development District No. 2 shaIl beaccomplished in part or in nhole through tax incrementfinancing in accordance with the TIF Act.
C. Statement of Obiect ives
the City seeks to achieve the follolring objectives throughthe Development Program:
promote and secure the prompt development of propertyin Development District No.2 in a manner consistentrrith the Comprehensive Plan and with minimal adverse
impact on the environment, which property is currentlyless productive because of the Iack of proper utili-zation and lack of investment, thus promoting and
securing the development of other land in the City;
promote and secure additional employment opportunitieswithin Development District No. 2 and the City forresidents of the City and the surrounding area,thereby improving living standards and preventing
unemployment and the loss of skilled labor and other
human resources in the City,
secure the increase of property subject to taxation bythe City, county, school district, and other taxingjurisdictions in order to better enable such entitiesto pay for public improvements and governmental
services and programs required to be provided by them;
I
2
3
secure the
payment ofments in
construction and provide moneys for thethe cost of public activities or improve-
Development District No. 2, including
2
4.
5
improvements to Audubon Road and the construction of
Audubon Court, which are necessary for the orderly and
beneficiat development of the DeveloPment District;
and
promote the concentration of appropriate developnent
within Development District No. 2 in order to maintain
the area in a manner consistent with its significance
to the City.
It is anticipated that no development rrithj-n the
Development District wilI present major environmental concerns.
Alt City actions, public improvements and private development
will be carried out in a nanner ethich trill conPly with
applicable environmental standards.
D. EnvironmentalControls
E. oDen SDace to be Created
Any open space
created in accordance
within the Development District will be
with th€ development controls of the City.
Audubon
litcGlynn
F. Public Facilities to be Constructed
In addition, the City proposes to construct
westerly from Audubon Road. Audubon Court sillto the neirly created lots to the south of
development.
G. Proposed Reuse of Property
It is not currently anticipated that any ProPerty silI be
acquired in connection uith the proposed developnent $ithin
Development District No. 2. Future Proposals for the use ofproperty to be acquired by the City must be consistent with
Development Program objectives and financially feasible. Prior
to acquisition of any property for reuse by a private developer,the City Council may require a development contract and other
guarantees to ensure that sufficient tax increment or other
iunds will be available to repay the cost associated with .the
3
Court
accessprovide
the
Public facilities constructed within the Development Dis-
trict will be financially feasible and compatible irith the
City's long range development plans. Public improvements
proposed within DeveloPment District No. 2 include upgrading of
Audubon Road from State tlighway No. 5 to Lyman Boulevard. The
improvements to Audubon Road from State Hi.gheray No. 5 south to
the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad tracks eri11
be the first phase of the project. ImProvement of Audubon Road
fron the railroad tracks south to Lytnan Boulevard will occur in
the second phase.
proposed acquisition. Appropriate restrictions regarding
reuse and redevelopment of property shal1 be incorporated
any development contract to which the City is a party.
theinto
H. Development District Financinq
Within Development District No. 2, the City has created oneTIF District and may create additional TIF Districts to finance
development activities. Roadway inprovenent costs trhich will be
incurred in Development District No. 2 wiII be paid through the
pledge of tax increment from TIF District No. 2-L.
I. Relocation.
The City anticipates that no relocation will be necessarybut accepts its responsibility for providing for relocationpursuant to Section 469.133 of the City Development DistrictAct. If relocation is necessary, provisions will be made inaccordance with l4innesota Statutes, Sections 117. 50 through1I7.56, incfusive.
J. Administration of Development Drs!fict.
ljlaintenance and operation of the public inprovements wilIbe the responsibility of the Administrator of DevelopmentDlstrict No. 2. Each year the Adninistrator will submit to theCity Council the maintenance and operation budget for thefollowing year. The Administrator wilI administer the
Development District pursuant to the provisions of Section
469.13I of the City DeveLopment District Act; provided, however,that such powers may only be exercised at the direction of theCity Council, No action taken by the Administrator shaII beeffective without authorization by the City Council.
The City does not anticipate the need to create an advisory
board to advise the City Council on the planning, constructionor implementation of the activities and improvements outlinedin the Development District Program.
K. Descr ip tion of DeveloDment District.
A description and a nap of the boundaries of DevelopmentDistrict No. 2 eere included with the original Program and P1an.
Attached to this modification as Exhibit A is a description ofthe property hereby added to Development District No. 2.
Attached hereto as Exhibit B is a nap of the property being
added to the Development District by this modification.
4
SECTION II. MODIFIED TAX INCREMENT FINANCING PLAN FOR TAX
INCRE!,4ENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO. 2-1
I Anticipated developnent would not reasonably be
expected to occur so1ely through private investmentwithin the reasonably foreseeable future and, there-fore, the use of TIF is deened necessaryi
The TIF PIan will afford maximun opportunity, consis-tent rrith the sound needs of the City as a whotre, for
development of the District by private enterprisei and
The TIF Plan conforms to general plans for developmentof the City as a erhole.
2
3
The conclusion summarized in paragraph 1of this subdivision andshich will be adopted by the City upon approval, of thismodification is one which has been reached by the City Councilfollowing consuttation with the planning cotnmission and city
A. Statutory Author itv.
Pursuant to section 469.175, Subd. 4 of the TrF Act, theCity has adopted the PLan for TIF District No. 2-1 and has
established TIF District No. 2-1. nithin Development District No.
2.
B. Stateroent of obiectives.
In addition to the objectives outlines in Section I, subdi-vision C hereof, the City seeks to achieve the follosing objec-tives through the Plan for TIF District No. 2-1:
1. provide employment opportunities within the City;
2. improve the tax base of the City and the general
econony of the City and statei
3. encourage development in an area of the City which has
not been utilized to its fuII potential,
4. provide for roadway inprovenents; and
5. implement relevant portions of the Comprehensive PIan.
C. Statement of PubIic Purpose.
In adopting the modified Program and P1an, the city council
intends to make the follohring findings:
5
staff. The conclusion has also been reached based upon thepersonal knowledge of members of the City Council regarding theproperty and development trends within the City.
D. Deyelopmen! Distrj.ct Program.
The City created Development District No.2 at the sametine as creation of TIF District No. 2-1 . A Program has beenadopted to describe development activities planned orauthorized within the Development District and is included asSection I of this PIan.
E. Description of TIF District.
A description and a map of the boundaries of TIF DistrictNo. 2-l eras included sith the original Program and P1an.Attached to this modification as Exhibit C is a description ofthe property hereby added to TIF District No. 2-L. Attachedhereto as Exhibit D is a map of the property being added to TIFDistrict No. 2-1 by this modification.
F. Development District Contracts.
The City has not entered into any development contracts forproperties within TIF District No. 2-1. If necessary, contractsregarding property within the Development District wiII be
entered into in accordance rrith Section 469.176, Subd. 5 of theTIF Act and no more than 10 percent, by acreage, of the landlrithin TIF District No. 2-1 will be acquired by the City with
bond proceeds without having concluded an agreement for develop-
ment or redevelopment of the property.
G. Classification of TIF District.
TIFdistrict,District
pursuant
No. 2-L is anto Section 469.17 4,
development TIFof the TIF Act.
economr c
Subd. 12
H. uodification of TIF Plan.
6
The Plan for TIF District No. 2-1 oay be modified by theCity, provided that any reduction or enlargement of geographic
area of the TIF District, increase in amount of bonded indebted-ness to be incurred, including a determination to capitalizeinterest on the debt if that determination eas not a part of theoriginal p1an, or to increase or decrease the amount of intereston the debt to be capitalized, increase in the portion of the
captured assessed value to be retained by the City, increase intotal estimated tax increment expenditures or designation ofadditional property to be acquired by the City shall be approved
upon the notice and after such discussion, public hearing andfindings as required for approval of the original PIan.
allin
to
of
AS
Pursuant to Section 469.!76, Subd. 2 of the TIF Act, in any
year in which the increment exceeds the amount necessary to pay
ihe costs authorized by the TrF PIan, the City shall use the
excess amount to do any of the following, in the order
determined by the Ci ty:
1. prepay the outstanding bonds;
2. discharge the Pledge of tax increment
3. pay int6 an escrow account dedicated
bonds i or
therefor;
to the paynent of
4 return the excess amount to the Carver county auditor
who shall distribute the excess amount to the City,
the county, and the school district in direct
proportion to their respective tax capacity rates.
In addition, the CitY may choose to
again in order to provide for other public
the Development District.
Limitation of Increment.
modify the TIF Plan
improvements h,i thi n
K
I No increment shall be paid to the City from TIF Dis-
trict No. 2-:- after three years from the date of
certification of the original tax caPacity of the
taxable real property in the District by the county
auditor unless nithin the three year period (a) bonds
have been issued pursuant to Section 469.1?8 of the
TIF Act, or (b) the City has acquired ProPerty within
TIF District No. 2-1, or (c) the City has constructed
or caused to be constructed public improvements
nithin TIF District No. 2-1.
7
This nodification is the first modification of the Program
and Plan. The City may choose to modify th€ Progran and the
Plan again if necessary to further.promote development within or
adjacent to the District.
I. Use of Tax Increment.
Pursuant to Section 469.!76, Subd. 4 of the TIF Act,
revenues derived from TIF District No. 2-L shaI1 be used
accordance with the TIF PIan. The revenues shall be used
finance or otherwise Pay the capital and administrative costs
development activities within the DeveloPnent District
identiiied in the Development Program and TIF Plan.
J. Excess Tax Increment.
If, after four years from the date of certification ofthe original tax capacity of TIF District No. 2-I, nodemolition, rehabilitation, or renovation of propertyor other site preparation, including improvement of astreet or right-of-way adjacent to a parcel but notinstallation of underground utility service, including
sewer or eater systems, have been conmenced on aparcel located srithin TIF District No. 2-1 by theCity, or by the onner of the parcel in accordanceq,ith the TIF Plan, no additional increment may be
taken from that parcel, and the original tax capacityof that parcel shall be excluded from the originaltax capacity of the TIF District. ff these activities
subsequently comnence, the City sha11 so certify tothe county auditor r dod the tax capacity of theproperty as tnost recently certified by the
commissioner of revenue may be added to the TIFDistrict. The City shaIl submit to the countyauditor evidence that the required activity has takenplace for each parcel in TIF District No. 2-L. Theevidence shalI be submitted by February 1 of thefifth year following the year in erhich the parcels
were certi.fied as included within TIF District No. 2-
1.
No tax increnent shall in any event be paid to theCity from fIF District No. 2-1 after eight years fromthe date of receipt by the City of the first incrementor I0 years from the date of approval of the TIF Plan,
whichever occurs first.
L. Limitation on Administrative Ex nses.
Pursuant to Section 469.176, Subd. 3 of the TIF Act, admin-istrative expenses are limited to 10 percent of the total tax
increment expenditures. Each time the City increases the budgetof TIF District No. 2-L, the amount of tax increment moneyallocated to administrative costs may be increased as long asthe total of administrative expenditures does not exceed I0percent of the total budget of the TIF District. Adnin-istrative expenses mean all expenditures of the City other than
anounts paid for the purchase of land or amounts paid tocontractors or others providing naterials and services,including architectural and engineering services, directly
connected with the physical development of real property in theDistrict, relocation benefits paid to or services provided forpersons residing or businesses located in the DiEtrict, or
anounts used to pay interest on, fund a reserve for, or se11 ata discount bonds issued pursuant to Sebtion 459.178 of the TIFAct. Administrative expenses includes amounts paid forservices provided by bond counsel, fiscal consultants andplanning or economic development consultants.
2
3.
8
M. Li.mitation on Boundarv Chancres.
The geographic area of TIF District No. 2-1 may be reduced,
but it cannot be enlarqed after five years following the date ofcertification of the original tax capacity by the carver CountyAuditor. This nodification, rhich includes an expansion of the
boundaries of TIF District No. 2-1, is occurrj.ng within five years
of the date of certification of the TIF District.
N. Reloc tion.
Although no relocation is anticipated, the city accepts asbinding its obligations under state law for relocation and will
adroinister relocation services for families, individuals and
businesses displaced by public action.
o Parcels to be Acoui-red l{ithin the TfF District.
It is not anticipated that any property uiIl be acquired in
connection lrith developnent proposals contained in the TIF PIan.
P. TIF Account.
Public ImprovementsAdministrative Expenses
(Bonding, land acquisition, etc. )
$ 585,447
s 175,514
Total $ 751, 051-
The City intends to upgrade Audubon Road and to assess thecost thereof to the benefitted properties. Those properties
located within TIF District No. 2-1 will be e1igible for the Cityrsspecial assessment reduction program. Under that program, special
assessnents levied against improved properties will be reduced byan amount equal to the tax increuent generated by the property
during the first three years after fuI1 value of the improvementsare in p1ace.
I
The tax increment received with respect to TIF District No. 2-1 shalt be segregated by the City in a special account on itsofficial. books and records and held by a trustee for the benefit of
holders of bonds issued to finance developnent activities.
A. Estinate of Pro'i ect costs.
The estinated budgeted amounts for the original TIF Districtwere included in the Plan adopted on october 10, 1988. Thefollowing represents additional anounts which vil1 be expendedwithin TIF District No, 2-l- as a result of this nodification:
R. Estimate of Bonded Indebtedness.
The City has previously sold bonds to pay for the
improvements to Audubon Road. The City does not intend to sell.additional tax increment bonds to pay for the construction of
Audubon Court. Costs for the construction of Audubon Court willbe met by bonds sold p ursuant to Minnesota Statutes, Chapter 429
per t ies .and wilI be assessed against benefltted pro
S. Oriqinal Tax Ca pacity.
Pursuant to Section 469.L77, Subd. I of the TIF Act, eachyear the Carver county auditor will measure the increase ordecrease in the total tax capacity of the property. Any year inwhich there is an increase in total tax capacity of propertywithin the TIF District, an increnent eriLl be payable to theCity. Any year in which the total tax capacity is below theoriginal tax capacity of all property within TIF District No. 2-1, no increment will be payable to the City.
Each year after the certification of the originalcapacity, the county auditor will increase or decreaseoriginal tax capacity of property within TIF District No. 2-1a result of;
1. change in the tax exempt
tax
the
AS
added to the TIF District.
2. reduction or enlargernentof the TIF District,
3.
4. any change in tax classification
Statutes Section 273.13 of prope r ty
reduction of valuation by neans of a court-orderedabatement, stipulation agreement, voluntary abatement
roade by the assessor or auditor or by order of the
l.linnesota commissioner of revenue; or
status of the property,
of the geographic boundar ies
under lqi nne so t aafter itTas been
Pursuant to Sections 469.L75, Subd. 1 and 469.177, Subd. 2of the TIF Act, the estinated captured tax capacity of theproperty within the enlarged boundaries of TIF District No. 2-1wiIl be S207,000 upon full deveLopment. The captured taxcapacity was estinated in the following rnanner:
In addition, each year the auditor shall add to theoriginal tax capacity of TIF District No. 2-L an amount. equal tothe original tax capacity for the preceding year multiplied bythe average percentage increase in tax capacity of all propertywithin the TIF District during the preceding five years.
T. Estitnate of Captured Tax Capacitv.
10
Tax Capacity
upon fu1l developnent
Original Tax Capacity
Captured Tax Capac i ty
s 227,OOO
20,000
$ 207,000
Pursuant to Section 469.!77, Subd. 2 of the TIF Act, it is
found and declared that all of the captured tax capacity
generated by TIF District No. 2-L is necessary to finance or
otherwise make permissible expenditures authorized by Section
469.176, Subd. 4 of the TIF Act.
U. Duration of the TIF District.
In accordance with Section 469.176, Subd. I of the TIF Act,
the City may continue to receive TIF Payments until eight years
from the date of the receipt of the first increment or 10 years
from the date of the approval of the TIF P1an, t hichever occurs
f irst.
It is 1ikely that the City wilI request that the Carver
county auditor retain the increment payable in 1990. The reason
for this reguest is that the City anticipates that the 1990
increment will be a partial one and it r.rishes to preserve its
statutory right to receive eight years of fuI1 increment.
V. Estimates of Impact on Other Taxinq Jurisdiction.
rt is anticipated that S207,000 in increment will be cap-
tured annually from the property being added to TIF District No.
2-1 as a result of this modification after calculation of the
fiscal disparities contribution. Of this amount, approximately
the following amounts would have gone to the taxingjurisdictions:
Tax Jur isdict ion Tax Increment
City of Chanhassen
Carver County
Independent School Di st r ict
No. 112
Othe r
s 43,200s 62,400
s 95,400I 6, ooo
Ilowever, the City believes that the actual inpact on all
taxing jurisdiction is zero because, in the City's opinion, no
development is likely to occur on the property without public
assistance.
11
W. Anquql Financial Report.
Pursuant to Section 469.175, Subd. 6 of the TIF Act, theCity must file an annual financial report regarding TIF DistrictNo. 2-1. The report shall be filed by July 1of each year withthe school board, the county board and the state auditor. Thereport to be filed by the City shall include the fotlowinginformation:
1. the original tax capacity of TIF District No. 2-1,
2. the captured tax capacity of TIF District No. 2-l.,including the amount of any captured tax capacity
shared eith other taxing districts;
3. the outstanding principal amount of bonds issued orother loans incurred to finance project costs in TIFDistrict No. 2-L,
4. for the reporting period and for the duration of TIFDistrict No. 2-L, the amount budgeted under the TIFPlan and the actual amount expended for the following
categor ies :
a) acquisition of land and buildings through condem-nation or purchase;
b) site improvement or preparation costsi
c) instal.lation of public utilities or other public
improvements i
d) administrative costs, including the allocatedcost of the Ci ty;
5. for properties sold to developers, the total cost ofthe property to the City and the price paid by thedeveloper; and
6, the amount of tax exempt obligations, other than thosereported under clause (3), rrhich were issued on behalfof private entities for facilities located in TIFDistrict No. 2-1 .
X. Notification of Prior Planned Improvenent.
Pursuant to Section 469.L77, subd. 4, of the tIF Act, theCity has reviewed its records with regard to the property to beadded to TIF District No. 2-1 and has found that no buildingpermits have been issued during the 18 nonths immediatelypreceding approval of the nodified fIF Plan by the City.
L2
Y.Assessnent Agreements.
Pursuant to Section 469.177, Subdivision 8 of the TIF Act,the City nitr upon entering into a developroent agreementpursuant to Section 469.L76, Subdivision 5 of the TIF Act,
execute an agreement in recordable form with the developer
which estabLishes a minimum market value of the land and
completed inprovements for the duration of rIF District No. 2-1. The agreenent shaI1 be presented to the Carver county
assessor erho shall review the plans and specifications for the
improvements to be constructed, review the market value
previously assigned to the land upon which the improvements areto be constructed and so long as the minimum market value
contained in the agreement appears in the judgment of the
assessor to be a reasonable estimate, the assessor nay certify
the minimum market value agreement.
13
cHl30-0r1
CHANHASSEN DEVELOPMENT
DISTRICT *2
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-r
DEVELOPME}ITotSTRtcT ,2
rrrrrfAx tNcREilENT
FtANCtNgDlgTRtcT NOO2-1
$
I.t
.li
s
t
t- ;l
(e/eo)
TRATTSPORTAII
Introducti on/Backgroun d
Chanhassen's highway system is directly linked with the growth and
development of the community. As traffic levels build, inadequate
access can affect the I ocati onal deci si ons of prospecti ve
residents, employers and retail businesses. Linkages to p] aces of
employment outside of the community also plays a significant role.
The City of Chanhassen has had an extensive history of interacting
with other government agencies and utilizing self initiative to
respond to transportation issues. These efforts are outlined
bel ow.
For a number of years, the Cjty has actively worked on the planning
and implementation of the upgrading of T.H. 5 and invested time and
money into the I.H. 212 Environmenta'l Impact Statement process.
These efforts are reaching fruition with T.H. 5 improvements under
construction to County Road 17 and Highway 212 being officially
mapped and partially funded. Continual efforts are needed to see
these proj ects through to compl eti on. These two programs
constitute the only regional roadray improvements anticipated by
the City that involve direct interaction with the l{etropolitan
Council. The City will continue to work to have Highway 5 improved
betveen County Road 17 and Highway 4l but otherrise no new regional
facil ities are required.
The City participated in the Highway 7 Corrjdor Study with other
mun'i cipalities, the l'letropo'l jtan Council and tlnD0T. This effort is
ted to result in incremental improvements along the highwaytime. Hennepin County and ilnD0T are continuing efforts to
d the Crosstown Highway to the northeast corner of Chanhassenwill improve access to the northern portion of the community.
In 1987, the City commjssioned a traffjc study entitled'Year 2005
Land Use and Transportati on Study' . Based upon 'l and useprojections that were current at that time, the study was to
develop a transportation system plan for the Chanhassen CBD as well
as major routes in the northern portion of the City. The study was
based on a projection of'18,900 people and 7,800 jobs in the
community by the year 2005. These projections are no longer
expec
ove r
exten
which
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consistent with thos-e being used by the City in its long rangeplanning efforts. Current projections are for soNreyhat greatirgrywth. However, the Plan represented a major, City-sponsoredeffort to.develop a comprehensive approach to improving ourtransportation system. The Year 2005 study made a seriis ofrecommendations, most of which have since been implemented or areprogrammed. These i ncl ude:
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2
Designation of an interchange at Highway 101 at T.H.212 tosecure access to downtown Chanhassen. The interchange hassince been incorporated into current plans and official mapsfor the new highway.
Realignment of T.H. 101 wjth jntersection improvements at T.H.5. The City is presently preparing plans to undertake therealignment of the Highway 101/Highway 5/West 78th Streetintersection under a self-financed program. plans to realign
Highway 101 south of Highway 5 have been developed with asection of future T.H. 101 constructed to serve the Rosemountfacility. The location of T.H. 101 has been modified from the
Year 2005 study due to its being shifted from Dakota Avenue toa location to the west that aligns with new lilarket Bou'l evard.This alignment was selected based upon the "Highway I01/5Preliminary A1 ignment and Land Use Corridor Study" completedby the City in 1989. Future extensions of new Highway 101south to T.H. 212 will occur as needed to serve new
development. Full improvement of the corridor may not occuruntiI new I.H, 212 is constructed.
Real ignment of the I'lest 78th Street/County Road
'i ntersection to provide adequate stacking distance from T.5. T,his project is underway and will be completed by the Ci
i n 1991.
L7
H.
ty
3
4 Creation of a new CBD access to Highway 5 to accorrnodate
development and to reduce congestion at other intersections.This was completed by the City in 1989 with the constructionof Flarket Boulevard. Hith the signalized intersection at T.H.5, Market Bou'l evard wilI eventual'ly have continuity with
real i gned Hi ghway 101.
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0ther 'l ess speci fi c recommendatj ons i ncl uded worki ng wi th the
County and State to determine the future of T.H. 101. This issueis as yet unresolved. Highway 101 represents a difficult issue foralI concerned. It ras designated a 'temporary' state highray in
the 1930's as we understand it and has consequently had little or
no funding for improvements. The state is willing to turn it back
to the counties but the counties are unwilling to accept it rithout
improvements. In Chanhassen, improving Hwy. 101 north of Hwy. 5
and south of llew T.H. 212 will require coordination and cooperation
with Hennepin and Carver Counties and the City of Eden Prairie.
CIearly, improvements are required for gafety and to provide needed
capacity. The City is willing to do itrs share as evidenced by the
planned locally sponsored improvements. However, we are unwillingto assume the entire burden nor do we feel this is reasonable since
through trips constitute a significant percentage of the traffic
vol ume.
In 1989, the City entered into an agreement with Carver County, thecities of Chaska, Victoria, Carver and l,laconia to undertake the
Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. l,lith the retention of
a traffic consuitant, the study is intended to develop a thorough
understanding of existing traffic problems, anticipate future
access needs and develop a comprehensive roadway system plan. Data
gathered from the traffic model'i ng program we believe constitutesthe most accurate traffic growth projections to date. The
expectations of this study are supported by the fact that theparti ci pati ng communi ti es and parti cul arly Chanhassen have
experi enced growth rates that are far i n excess of thoseanticipated in the Metropolitan Councjl's regional model . The
regional model is currently used as the basic input in most trafficstudies. In addition, the more loca'l ized focus of the studypermits a more detailed analysis to be performed. The results of
the study are being incorporated into the Comprehensive Plan and a
copy is attached in the appendix of this study.
The City is currently in the process of undertaking an updatedtraffic analysis of traffic issues in and around the Central
Business District. The report rill be used to re-evaluate thestreet system now that new development and increased traffic flowsare being put onto the system. It is expected that the report,rhich will be completed in late 1990, rill be used to direct Cityefforts towards further refinements to the area street system.
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Las-tly,.the City has not ignored mass transit issues. The City isa founding member and active supporter of the Southwest il6troTransit Cormission. The transit service is one of the .opt-out'
agreements with the Regional Transjt Board and offers a mix offixed route and dial-a-ride service2 The improvements offered by
Southwest iletro inclgde much higher Ievels of service and a more
responsive system th$h was possible rith the l{TC. tt has proven to
be highly successful with steady increases in ridership. The Citycurrently contains a'Park and Ride'facility and is working with
Southwest iletro on new and improved locations. Southrest l{etio hasrecently completed a Park and Ride Study that the City supports.4 copy of the report is provided in the appendix of the
Comprehensive Plan.
Chanhassen has had a long and active involvement in transportat.i onplanning, programming and financing. The effort is expected tocontjnue as the community develops over the next 10 to 20 years.
Chanhassen Street Syst
Chanhassen's existing street system consists of a series of localstreets, co l I ectors, mi nor arteri a'l s and major arteri a1s. Theexhjbit entitled Chanhassen Existing Street System portrays theroad system and functional classifications that ex.i st in 1990.
This information was derived from recent work activities associatedwith the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study.
The existing street network includes approx.imately 75 miles ofroad. 0f this total, 95% are paved w'i th permanent surfacing. Thefol'lowing functional classification system ras deve'loped for theEastern Carver County Transportation Study. It provides a
framework that expands upon iletropolitan Council criteria to allowthe appropriate designation of aII streets and highrays. It isalso consistent with the classification system being used by Carver
County and sumounding comunities.
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1,lAJ0R CRITERIA:
Trip Origins and
Speed and Length
Access Control
Spaci ng
FUI{CTIOT{AL CLASSIFICATIOil CRITERIA
Destinations (Trip Focus)
of Trip
Princioal Arteri al
Minor Arterial - Class I
Tri p Focus: Intrastate, Intercounty
Speed: 40-55 mph
Tri p Length: >6 mj .
Access: To arterials and collectors; land access to majortrip generators
Spacing: 2-4 mi.
l.li nor Arteri a l - Cl ass I I
Trip Focus: Intracounty, Intercitl/townshipSpeed: 35-45 mph, urban; 40-55 mph, rural
Tri p Length: >4 mi .Access: To arteri al s and col l ectors; 'l and
commercial , industrial, farms, high density
Spacing: 1-2 mi.
access to
resi denti al
Col Iector - C'lass I
Trip Focus: Intercity/township, InterneighborhoodSpeed: 35-45 mph, urban; 40-55 mph, ruralTrip Length: >2 miAccess: To arteri al s and col I ectors, I ocal streets; 'l and
5
Trip Focus: Interstate, Intrastate
Speed: 45-65 mph
Tri p Length: >10 mi .Access: Fu11y controlled, no direct land access in urban
areas; limited land access in rural areas
Spac ing: 5-10 mi .
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Collector - Class II
access to commercia'l , industrial ,residential , farms, (emphasis on
Spaci ng: 1-2 mi .
medium - high density
mobi i i ty vs. access)
Trip Focus: Interneighborhood, Intraneighborhood
Speed: 30-40 mph, urban; 40-55 mph, rural
Tri p Length: <2 mi .
Access: To minor arterials and collectors, Iocal streets;
land access to commercial . industrial , farms, residential
(emphasis on access vs. mobility)
Spacing: l-2 mi.
EXISTITIG CHAilHASSET{ STREET SYSTE}I
ST EET FR M 0 CLASSIFICATION
T.H
T.H
T.H
T.H
Nor
Co.
lles
Gal
Co.
Dak
T.H
IJes
T
T
T
T
T
T
T
It
G
P
K
M
L
H. 7
H. 5
H. 41
H. 101
H. 212
H. 169
H. 169
l,lest
l,lest
North
l{orth
lJest
I
III
Limi t
Limi t
Limi t
Limit
Limi t
212
212
5
7
North Limit
East Limit
South LImi t
South Limi t
L69l2L2
Prin Artilin Art -
l,lin Art -
l,,li n Art -
l{i n Art -
l.lin Art -
lili n Art -
Col I ect -
Collect -
Col I ect -
Col lect -
Col lect -
Col'lect -
Col'lect -
Co] 'lect -
Co] I ect -
Collect -
Collect -
Collect -
cl
c1
cl
cl
c'l
ct
cl
cl
cl
c'l
cl
c'l
c'l
c'l
cl
ct
c1
cl
i nnewashta Parkway
al pi n Boui evard
owers Blvd. (17)
erber Boulevard
arket Boulevard
ake Lucy Road
Pleasant View Rd
Lake Dri ve East
Audubon Road
Pioneer Trai l
Bluff Creek Drive
Lake Riley Blvd
Key: Prin Art
ttlin Art -
l,li n Art -
Chaska Limit
East Limit
T.H. 212
East Limit
Pioneer Tr.
Lyman Bl vd
Principal Arterial
Cl I-l,linorArteria'l
C] II - l,linor Arteria'l
South Limit
T.H. 7
T.H. 5
Lyman 81vd.
I'lest 78th St
T.H. 5
th Limit
Rd. 17t 78th st
T.H. 101ota Ave.5t Limit
East Limi t
Co. Rd. 17
T.H. 101
IIIIII
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
pin Blvd
Rd. li
Class I
CIass II
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Col]ect - C] I - Collector - Class I
Chanhassen has di fferent po1 i ci es pertai ni ng to constructi on
standards for urban versus rural local streets. Urban roadways are
required to dedicate 50 feet of right-of-way for local streets and
a 28 foot wide paved area is required. Rura'l roadways are also
required to have bitumjnous surfacing in a 24 foot width contained
within a 60 foot right-of-way. Current cjty policy also allows the
construction of private driveways providing such drives do not
serve more than four sing'l e fami 1y residences and it is
demonstrated to be infeasible to construct a public street. In
such cases,60 feet of right-of-way is required with the roadway
consisting of a 28 foot wide gravel surface.
TransportationIssues/SystemDeficiencies-
The function of a transportation plan is to not only accommodatefuture needs but also to analyze existing problems and pose
appropriate solutions. Frequently, existing problems are c1 osely
related to future needs. As a result, a specific action in a given
area can remedy existing deficiencies wh'i 1e providing for future
needs.
In examining Chanhassen's existing transportation system, a general
problem is readily apparent. The system provides adequate
north/south access in terms of facility'l ocations but is deficientin east/west routes. In the northeastern part of the city, T.H. 5
'i s'l ocated 3.5 miles from T.H. 7. This compares to maximum spacingof one mi'l e for north/south routes in the same general area.
Issues and system deficjencies can be categorized into three typesof conditions: 1) intersections, 2) road capacity/alignment/
connections and 3) jurisdictional continuity. Each of these topicsis addressed individual ly.
Intersecti ons/Access: Chanhassen contai ns a
intersections that currently are experiencing problems.
of these occurs as fo] 'l ows.
number of
A sumnary
I T. H. S/l'lest 79th Street/T. H. 101 - At the l{est 79th Streetintersection, significant turn movements occur including:exiting traffic from 79th Street, through vo1umes on T.H. 101
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Capacity problems at T.H. 5/T.H. 101.
Potential difficulties for selected turn movementsat T.H. 101/West 79th Street in 'light of overalltraffi c vol umes.
Limited weaving distance for vehicles coming fromthe east on T.H. 5 turning left into Hest 79th
Street.
t
Recent improvements in this area coupled with the improvements
to T.H. 5 that are now under construction wi'l 'l help al leviate
these problems. Market Boulevard whjch was opened in 1989
provides a western entrance/exit for the businesses along I'lest79th Street. The rebui I d i ng of T. H. 5 wi I I enhance theexisting T.H. 101 intersection and T.H. 101 north of T.H. 5will be reconstructed to align with Dakota Avenue in 1991 to
1992.
I.H. 5l Dakota Avenue - This intersection is scheduled for
improvement during 1991 and L992 as part of ilnDOT's
improvement project for T.H. 5.
T.H. S/CSAH 17 - As continued developnent takes place in
downtown Chanhassen, proj ecti ons i ndi cate a si gni fi cantproblem at the jntersection of T.H. 5 an CSAH 17. Limited
stacking distance on the north approach cou'l d resu'l t in queues
blocking the intersection of llest 78th Street and County RoadL7. This situation is scheduled for improvement in 1991 andL992. South of T.H. 5, CSAH 17 is schedu'led for roadway
widening and turn Iane improvements by the City of Chanhassenin 1992.
T.H. 7/l.linnewashta Parkway - The major problem with thisintersection is the angle with which northbound l.linnewashta
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2.
and left turns from the south to l,lest 79th Street. At theintersection of T.H. 101 and T.H. 5, sjgnificant turn movement
volumes include left turns from the north to T.H. 5, throughtraffic on T.H. 5 and'l eft turns from the east to the south onT.H. 101. Specific problems in this area include the
fo1 Iowing:
4.
7
10. u. s. 212/T .H.
southbound T. H
i ntersecti on i s hazardous for
desiring to turn eastbound onto
T.
di
ei
of
si
at
Parkway joins T.H. 7. As a result, it is difficult toidentify eastbound traffic on T.H. 7 and turning movements
from eastbound T.H. 7 to southbound Minnewashta Parkway are
cumbersome. The City of Chanhassen has tentatively scheduled
improvements to llinnewashta Parkway in 1991.
T.H. S/Lone Cedar Lane - The sight distance for southboundtraffic on Lone Cedar Lane looking west along T.H. 5 isrestricted by a hill. Chanhassen has entered into a
cooperative agreement with tlnD0T to close the existing access
to T.H. 5 and replace it with a cul-de-sac.
H. S/Lake Ann Park Access - The access to Lake Ann Park is
rectly off of the north side of T.H. 5. Left turn movements
ther into or out of the park are hazardous due to the volumetraffic on T.H.5. Park users frequently encountergnificant waiting periods in exiting the park, particular'ly
peak hours. In the future, access to the park may be
realigned off of a frontage road along the north side of
Highway 5.
T.H. 101/96th Street - At this intersection, a blind curve
exists due to the vertical curve of T.H. 101. In 1989, sight
distance was enhance by the removal of trees in the area.Further improvements are unlikely until T.H. 101 is
reconstructed in the future.
Pioneer Trail and T.H. 101 - Sight distance problems occur fortraffic on Pioneer Trail due to the vertical curvature of T.H.101. Improvement of this situation requires a comprehensive
approach and is not likely to occur untjl T.H. 101 is improvedin southern Chanhassen.
T.H. 101/Soo Line Ra'ilroad Tracks - At this intersection, the
roadway passes beneath the rai'l road tracks, however, the rvidth
and angle of the bridge make it hazardous for oncomingvehicles. The rai'l line is scheduled for future abandonment,
however, removal of the bridge may not occur until T.H. 101 is
reconstructed.
101
101
- Thi straffi c
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6.
8.
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T. H. 2L2 due to heavy traffic volumes.
11. U.S. L69-2l2lT.H, 101 - Recent improvements to thisintersection have significantly improved safety. Heavytraffic volumes continue to pose problems in this area. The
construction of new T.H. ?LZ in the future wi'l 'l remove some ofthe existing traffic in this area.
L2.Bluff Creek Drive/Soo Line Railroad Tracks - Bluff Creek Drive
was improved by the City of Chanhassen in 1987. This project
which included the addition of lights and warning arms greatly
improved safety in this area. The intersecting angle of the
roadway and tracks still limits clear sight distance. Thjssituation will be completely resolved in the future when therailroad tracks are abandoned.
x,
13. T.H. 7/Lake Minnewashta area - T.H. 7 in northwestern
Chanhassen along the north side of Lake Hinnewashta intersectsa number of local streets. Due to heavy traffic vo1 umes,particularly during peak hours, turning movements .i n this areaare difficult. In this area, T.H. 7 does not contain lanesspecifically designed to accommodate free flowing traffic.
Eventual implementation of the recommendations contained in' the T.H. 7 Corridor Study will improve conditions in this
area.
t4.Audubon Road near Sunridge Court - Existing sight distances jn *this area are inadequate to the vertical curvature of Audubon ?, \r
Road. Improvement of thjs area is scheduled for 1990 or 1991.
15.
Road Caqaci tvlA] ionment/Connections : Deficiencies in thi s categoryare evident due to capacity problems created by excessive volumes,
alignment issues, or due to connection prob'l ems. Capacity problems
are a'l so caused by a lack of proper lane channe'l ization,'lack ofsignalization or due to the frequency of accesses. Specific
examples of such circumstances inc1 ude the following:
l0
T.H. 5/Arboretum Entrance - Turning movements into and out ofthe Arboretum are complicated by the heavy traffic volumesalong T.H.5. In the future, this situation should be
addressed in the reconstruct'i on of the western segment of T.H.
5.
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1 T.H. 5 - T.H. 5 is the transportation backbone of Chanhassen.
Users of Highway 5 are aware that excessive congestion on this
route occurs at various times of the day with concentrations
during peak hours. Portions of T.H. 5 are overloaded for up
to I hours per day. Traffic levels of approximately 7,000 to
7,500 vehicles per day js used to justify a four lane
facil ity. In 1986, T.H. 5 carried 20,500 vehic'les per day at
Chanhassen's eastern border. T.H. 5 is also unique because itcarries 'reverse conmuting" patterns. Employment
opportuni ti es i n Chanhassen attract workers who travel
westbound during the morning hours and eastbound in the
evening. This movement counters Chanhassen residents who workin other locations in the Twin City area, most of which lie
east of Chanhassen.
At the present time, T.H. 5 is bejng improved. By 1991, T.H.
5 will exist as a four lane divided highway from a point 3,000feet east of Chanhassen's east border of I-494. A 1991)etting date is scheduled for replacement of the Chicago,
l'lilwaukee, St. Pau'l & Pacific Railroad bridge south of the
Chanhassen CBD. Also scheduled is the widen'ing of T.H. 5 tofour'l anes from west of CSAH 17 to the point 3,000 feet eastof Chanhassen's eastern border.
Improvements that are currently underway will significantly
improve conditions on T.H. 5. It is extremely important in
the future that the City continue to monitor funding'levels to
ensure that current plans are implemented. The City will
continue to support the expansion of T.H. 5 to four lanes from
CSAH 17 to Chanhassen's western border. Additionally, thefuture functjon of T.H. 5 is dependent on the construction of
new T.H. 212. Ilithout new T. H.212, T.H. 5 will again bequickly over capacity, even with the implementation of planned
improvements.
T.H. 101 - Trunk Highway 101 is classified as a temporary
trunk highway and as such, it has not received appropriationsfor any improvements with the exception of absolute minimumnecessities. Recently, Hennepin County to acceptedjurisdiction of T.H. 101 within County boundaries. Since asubstantial portion of T.H. 10f is in Carver County and
Chanhassen spec'ifically, jurisdictional and functiona'l
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5.
4
continuity are sjgnificant concerns that could have major
consequences for the city. The jurisd'i ctional problem isfurther compounded by the need for T.H. 101 improvements. The
highway has significant alignment and geometric prob'l emsparticularly south of T.H. 5. Chanhassen needs to take thelead role in promoting the improvement of T.H. 101.
Pleasant View Road - Pleasant View Road serves as the only
east/west connection between CSAH 17 and T.H. 101 in northern
Chanhassen. The existing roadway alignment is inadequate inseveral areas. Sharp curves, garages 'l ocated at theright-of-way line, hidden driveways and frequent vistas ofLotus Lake which serves as a distraction, all combine tocreate potentially dangerous condjtions. Previous efforts toimprove Pleasant View Road have been unsuccessful. As aresult, the inadequacies of thjs route will continue to
i ntensi fy in the future as traffi c vol umes conti nue to
i ncrease.
CSAH 17 - County Road 17 currently extends south of T.H. 5 to
Lyman Boulevard. In the future, it wjll be possible to extendthe route to new T.H, 2l? and south to Pioneer Trail. Southof Pioneer Trai1, further extension is not feasible due toexisting development and extreme variations in topography.Therefore, Chanhassen's only reasonable opportunity for a
comprehensive north/south minor arterial route lies in the
improvement of the T.H. 101 corridor.
llinnerashta Parkray - This street seryes as the onlynorth/south route between Hwy. 5 and Hwy. 7, rest of Lakil{innewashta. It is also located such that it likely serves
some through trips from outside the City along Hwy.5,traveling to the north to Hry. 7, as rell as locally generatedtraffic along its route. This area has undergone a fairlysignificant anount of development but there is considerably
more development potential that is likely to be realized overthe next decade. At the same time, the road suffers fromsafety and capacity restraints due to poor alignment, under-ridth pavement and poor intersections and/or drivewayconnections. A portion of the right-of-ray forms the City
border rith Uictoria rhich wiII require a coordinated approachto improvements.
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6. Lake Drive - Lake Drive is being developed to serve twofunctions. These include Iocal access south of Hwy. 5 and aparallel collector to Hwy. 5 capable of camying off-loaded
local trips of short to medium length. The City is currently
undertaking a joint project rith llntDT and the City of Eden
Prairie to extend to Lake Drive east to the City line where itwill merge with a new signalized intersection at Hry. 5 and
Dell Road. For the street to serve it's intended purpose, itis essential that it be extended to the Hest. The
Comprehensive Plan illustrates itX ultimate extension to Hwy.
41 where it will intersect rith 82nd Street in Chaska.
Jurisdictional Continuitv: Ch anhassen contains a number of roads
which pass through the community and into other municipalities.
Because these routes fal I under a vari ety of j uri sdi cti ons,
continuity problems can occur. Routes of particular interest to
Chanhassen include the fol Iowing:
CSAH 17 - County Road 17 serves as one of Chanhassen's major
north/south routes. l.lithin the city, thjs route has adequate
right-of-way, sight distance, grades and setbacks to maintain
a 45 to 50 mile per hour speed limit. l{orth of Chanhassen,
however, thj s road takes a dj fferent form as i t enters
Shorewood and Excelsior.
In Shorewood, Carver County 17 becomes Hennepin County 82.Tight setbacks, poor sight d'i stances, individual driveway
accesses and reduced speeds exist in this area. As a result,
the effectiveness of CSAH 17 as a northern access to T.H. 7 is
diminished once it crosses Chanhassen's border.
I
2 CSAH 117 - CSAH 117 is very similar to CSAH 17. The route
functions effectively until it reaches the northern portion of
Chanhassen where its alignment restricts traffic movement.
T.H.5 - Issues pertaining to T.H.5 have been previouslypresented. The jurisdictional continuity of T.H.5 is
extremely important to Chanhassen. Chanhassen wi'l I.need to
continual1y monitor tlnDOT plans for this route as well as thedesires of adjacent municipa'l ities to ensure that T.H. 5continues to function at the highest feasibl e leve'l of
serv i ce .
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4. T
o
p
.H. 101 - T.H. 101 is discussed extensively in other sectionsf this chapler. -It has significant jurisdictiona'l continuity
roblems within Chanhassen's borders.
Local Street Improvements
2.
As Chanhassen continues to develop, transportation conflicts andinconsistencies wili become evident. These situations, unlikeplanning for major routes, are not predictable since they resu'l tfrom the merging of existing and new land use patterni. The
Comprehensive PIan can be a useful tool in assisting the City inresolving these local access situations. Often, during thesubdivision review process, the need for future extension of-localstreets becomes apparent. As a result, access concepts are
developed to assist in creating an acceptable configuration'for theplat -and as a guide for the future development of adjoiningparcels. It is the City's intent that the Comprehensive pla-n serveas an implementation tool by providing a means by which to recordthese access p1ans, legitimizing them by nature of the fact thatthey are approved b-y_the City Council prior to recording. It alsowill provide a useful means of providing information td'residents
and developers seeking infonnation or future development potential .These concept plans are il'lustrated below. lOOitionit conceptplans will be added to this document over time as they are
devel oped.
t. Tanadoona Drive-Oogwood Road/Crimson Bay Road - At the presenttime, Crimson Bay Road does not connect to Dogwood Road-
Tanadoona Drive. Correspondingly, both of these nelghborhoodshave only one means of egress/ingress. A futule streetconnection in this area is needed to alleviate existing accessprobl ems.
Carver Beach Road Conditions - Chanhassen,s Carver Beach
neighborhood was one of the first residential developments onLotus Lake. This area cbnsists of smaller lots and narrowri-ghts-of-ray. Draina_ge p_roblems occur due to topography anda lack of storm sewer facilities in sone portions bittrl irea.Improvement of existing conditions cin only occur in acomprehensiye manner involving the reconstruition of bothstreets and utility systems. Because of development
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3.
constraints, typical street standards rill not be applicablein this area.
tlez Perce/Pleasant View Road Connection - During review of the
Yineland Forest plat, it was evident that a connection between
llez Perce/Lake Lucy Road and Pleasant View Road was ramanted
since there was no north/south connection between County Road
17 and Lotus Lake. Improved access is needed for local trips
and to ensure the adequate provision of emergency services.At the same time, there rere concerns voiced regarding the
introduction of additional trips onto Pleasant Uiew Road sincethe street already suffers from capacity and designconstraints. Therefore, it was determined that the Pleasant
Yiew Road intersection should be located as far rest as
possible at the Peaceful Lane intersection.
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(Leave full page for TAZ map)
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Traffic Assignment Zones
The analysis and projectjon of regional traffic conditjons is
conducted utii izing a techn'i que known as traffic assignment zones.
Traffic assignment zones (TAZ's) are defined geographical areas
within which data such as population, employment and household
information is collected. This data is analyzed through computer
model ing techniques wh'i ch results in forecasts of traffic movement
between zones. Utilizing this technique, it is possible to project
travel and demand such as person-trip productions, person-trip
attractions, intrazonal person trips and motor vehicle data such as
average daily trips and peak hour trips. This data is va1 uab'l e in
both local and regional transportation p] anning. The analysis of
roadway deficiencies presented to this point is based upon pre-
existing situations. Traffic forecasts developed by the Eastern
Carver County Transportation Study are being utilized to anticipate
problems that wi I I result from anticipated growth. Having
anticipated these problems, it should be possible to design
improvements required to resolve them and these are also presented
in this report.
Chanhassen is contained within al'l or part of seven differenttraffic assignment zones. Zones 538, 848, and 852 contain small
portions of Chanhassen and re'l ate primarily to Chaska and Eden
Prairi e. The remain'i ng four zones 539, 540, 541 and 547 pertain
exclusively to Chanhassen.
Chanhassen completed Traffic Assignment Zone projections for 2010
as part of the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study. TAZ's
developed for the Eastern Carver County Study are subsets of the
lletropolitan Council's TAZ's, thus offering much greater detail but
allowing coordination rith the lletropolitan Council's regional
modeling efforts as well. The following is a presentation of this
i nformati on:
TAZ
2O1O TAZ PROJECTIONS
HOUSEHOLDS POPULATION EMPLOYT.IENT
1804
333
539-1
539-2
694
128
L7
395
L7
(e /eo )
TAZ HOUSEHOLDS POPULATION EMPLOYMENT
114
296
140
288
62s
207
364
749
t625
538
397
186
413
149
235
84
178
838
104
620
267
453
5
60i
331
645
1684
1694
1485
2645
1878
1032
484
1074
387
6tt
218
463
2179
270
L6L2
694
1r79
13
15 63
23,175
10
150
812
s00
13,095
63
267
49
351
275
988
694
127
913
715
2569
63
131
182
541- I
54t-2
541-3
20t
63
107
523
164
278
547-l
848-1
852-L
TOTAL 8,913
l8
540-1
540-2
540-3
540-4
540-5
540-6
540-7
540-8
540-9
540- 10
540- 1 1
540- l2
540-13
540-14
540- 15
540- 16
540- 17
540- 18
540- 19
540-20
540-21
540-22
540-23
540-24
540-25
540-26
(e/eo)
Planned and Recomnended Improvements
Traffjc on Chanhassen's roadway system will continue to increase
due to new commercial , residential and industrial development and
changes in socio-economic conditions. The impact of added trafficwill be more ev'i dent on the City's major streets, primarily the
mi nor arteri a'l and col I ector routes.
In order to ensure that traffic concerns are addressed thoroughly
and comprehensively, the transportation chapter of the Chanhassen
Comprehensi ve Pl an contai ns a pl anned and recommended roadway
system for the year 2000. This system is the result of both
current and past planning efforts including the 1980 Comprehensive
Plan, the Year 2005 Land Use and Transportation Study, the H'i ghway
101/5 Preliminary Alignment and Land Use Corridor Study and the
Eastern Carver County Transportatjon Study (ECCTS).
The ECCTS employed a modeling program to forecast traffic levels onarea roads. The forecasts are based upon anticipated trafficlevels by the years 2005-2010. The information is provided indetail in the attached copy of the ECCTS. The forecasts rere based
upon an anticipated roadway system which includes conpletion of
Hwy. 5 and Hwy. 2t2 and a number of other street projects in theCity. Some of the forecasts are extremely high and indicative ofsignificant potential problems. For example, Hwy. 5 near the
Chanhassen CBD is anticipated to be carrying over 51,000 trips perday. These volumes are representative of volumes normaily
experienced by a 4lane, Iimited access arterial highway and not a4 lane, at grade minor arterial with signalized intersections.
The following major improvements are components of the recommended
and planned transportation system:
T.H. 5 - As was referenced previously in this report, T.H.5 iscurrently being improved by the ilinnesota Department ofTransportation. By approxjmate'ly 1992, T.H. 5 wil'l exist as a fourlane road from west of CSAH 17 in Chanhassen to I-494 in EdenPrairie. This improvement, which will include turn lanes, will
help mitigate peak hour traffic congestion in both Chanhassen and
Eden Prairie. The City will continue to work to get T.H. 5
improved to Chanhassen's western border. The ECCTS indicates a
19
Crosstown Hiohwav/Townline Road - This improvement will entai't theextension of Townline Road from I-494 west to T.H. l0l at the
Chanhassen-Eden Prairie-Minnetonka border. The extension of thisroute will have a major impact on T.H, 101 which serves as the
common Chanhassen/Eden Prairie boundary north of T.H. 5.
Slate Trunk Hiohwav 2I2 - Construction of T.H. 2lZ along a new
alignment has been under consideration since the early 1950's.Cities along the corridor have recently cooperated in providing
funding to prepare an environmental impact statement (EIS) for theproj
ri gh
bui I
rout
duri
and are beginning official mapping proceedings to securef-way within the comidor. Plans call for T.H. 212 to be
s a four lane freeway facil ity. As presentiy concejved, theill be constructed through Chanhassen from T.H. 5 to T.H. 4lthe late 1990's. The project is presently partially funded.
Oett noaalWest tA4 - Dell Road in Eden Prairie para11e1sT.H. 101 and is classified by the Cjty of Eden Prairie as acoilector roadway north to T.H. 5 and a minor arteria'l south ofT.H. 5. It will provide a connection from Townline Road on thenorth to Pi oneer Trai I on the south and wi I I be phased i n
conjunction with area development. Depending upon its design and
access to the State Trunk Highway system, Dell Road could play agreater or lesser traffic role than envisioned by the City of EtenPrairie. The De1'l Road/T.H. 5 intersection will be signalized aspart of the T.H. 5 'improvement project.
Lake Drive - Lake Drive is a planned east/west collector street
located south of T.H. 5. Lake Drive East was improved in 1985 fromT.H. 101 to Dakota Avenue. Plans call for the extension of LakeDrive east to Dell Road and west to CSAH 17 in 1991. This routewill serve as an important collector for Chanhassen's eastern
i ndustri a'l area.
T. H. 101 - Pl anni ng efforts si nce 1980 have consi stentlyidentified the need for improvements to T.H. 101. planned
improvements north of T.H. 5 consist primarily of reconstruction
and realignment of the route irrnediately north of the intersectionof T.H. 101 and West 78th Street to effectuate better traffic flow.
ect
t-ota
ew
ng
20
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need to 4 lane Hwy. 5 west torards Uictoria to accomrodate trafficfl ows.
(e/eo)
South of T.H.5, major improvements are planned. The 1980
Comprehensive Plan and the 2005 Land Use and Transportation Study
called for the total realignment of T.H. 101 between T.H. 5 and
Lyman Boulevard. In reviewing the T.H. 101 corridor, the City
recogni zed that si nce the real i gnment wi I I i nvol ve total
reconstruction, a unique opportunity exists to create T.H. 101 as
an attractive approach to the community. The planned interchange
of T.H. 212 and T.H. l0l will provide downtown Chanhassen and theindustrial area with a new entrance. In order to maximize visual
and functional concerns, T.H. 101 is planned for reconstruction as
a boulevard/parkway with a iandscaped median area from new T.H. 212to T.H. 5. The alignment of T.H. l0l as it approaches T.H. 5 wi1'l
be relocated to the west to intersect Market Boulevard. T.H. 5will serve as a brief east/west link for T.H. 101 between lilarket
Boulevard and Dakota Avenue where the route will continue to thenorth. Highway l0l north of T.H.5 and south of T.H. 212 areclearly in need of improvements. These improvements can bejustified today based on capacity and safety concerns. The ECCTSprojects over 12,000 trips per day on both segments.
T.H. 5 Frontaoe Road (T.H. 41 To CSAH 17) - A frontage road along
the north sjde of Highway 5 between CSAH 17 and T.H. 41 is plannedto serve short term and eventually long term development in thearea. 0nce the frontage road is constructed, the access into Lake
Ann Park at T.H. 5 will be closed. The frontage road will alsoprovide di rect access to the residential and neighborhood
commercial uses planned along the north side of T.H. 5.
T.H. 7 (North Mi nnewash ta Area) -A study of the entire T.H. 7corridor was compieted in late 1986. Various al ternatives wereidentified to improve the corridor along the north side of Lakel,linnewashta. The alternatives involved a variety of street
cl osures and re-routi ngs i n the resi denti al areas east of
ilinnewashta Parkway. The goa'l of the recorunendations is to reduce
the total number of intersections along the route thereby improvingtraffic flow. At the present time, Chanhassen and the othercommunities along the corridor are working with ilnDOT in
implementing the recorunendations as funding becomes availab'l e.
J.H..4l - Historically, the lilinnesota Department of Transportation
has had an interest in realigning and extending T.H.4l south to
and across the Minnesota River. To date, however, there are no
2L
(e/eo)
plans to actual1y implement a new road along this alignment.
This alignment is identified on the Carver County Transportation
Plan as a 'study and/or reserve right-of-way' corridor. It is not
currentl y i dentj fi ed on Chanhassen 's transportati on system,
however, it can be added if the County or State feel that therealignment'is still justified. If appropriate, the City of
Chanhassen will work with Carver County and the City of Chaska tofurther define the need for the realignment of T.H.41 includingthe possibi I ity of a new river crossing.
Interchanoes -
T.H. 101 in Chan
Road 17 and T.H
Plans for new T.H. 212 call for an interchange at
hassen and construction of an interchange at County. 2t2.
Lake Lucv Road - The portion of Lake Lucy Road between CSAH 17 and
CSAH 117 was reconstructed and rea'l igned in 1987. Long term, thefurther extension of this route westward to T.H. 4l is-planned.
Ealt/llqst Col 'lector. .North of T. H. 5 - The transportati on pl ancalls for the eventual construction of a new east/west collector
connecting T.H.41 on the west and Galpin Boulevard on the east.This collector is to be located approximately 4,000 feet north of
T. H. 5.
!al_e Drjve Extension - An. extension of Lake Drive is planned
between Powers Boulevard (Co. Rd. 17) and Audubon Road. Thealignment of this route south of T.H. 5 separates planned
industria'l uses from planned residential uses.
East/lJest Collector. South of T.H. 5 - At the present time, the
Chanhassen transportation system does not accommodate east/west
movements, south of T.H. 5 between Audubon Road and T.H.4l. Acoliector roadway system in this area is needed to provide accessto property and to discourage 1oca1 trips from using T.H. 5.
Construction of a continuous collector in this area is complicated
by the existence of the existing Timberwood residential developmentand extensive wetlands west of Galpin Boulevard. In order toprovide needed access to this area, the plan calls for the
22
(e/eo)
construction of a roadway that extends l,lcGlynn Drive westward to
Galpin Boulevard. The route crosses Galpin Boulevard and connectsto a new north/south collector road wh'i ch in turn connects to 82nd
Street on the south.
Right-of-llay Hidths
The City of Chanhassen has direct control of a1 I local streets and
some coliectors and minor arterials. In order for each of these
routes to fulfil'l their function, right-of-way widths have been
establ ished for each type of facility. These width recommendationswill be used in the review of all new street improvement projects.
Roadwav
Street Improvements - Anenities
The Ci ty of Chanhassen has establ i shed an overa l I goal of
implementing a transportat'i on system which is both functional and
aesthetica1 1y pleasing. Aesthetic enhancement of roadways is being
accomplished through unified signage, lighting, and landscaping ofright-of-way areas. Landscaping of right-of-uay areas should be
i nc] uded i n new constructi on proj ects and reconstructi on ofexisting streets. A mix of plant materials should be used toprovide variety and color along right-of-way areas.
23
R ioht-of-l'lav
llinor arterial 100-150 feet
Col lector 60-100 feet
Local (Rural) 60 feet
Loca'l (Urban) 50 feet
The selected right-of-way width for any Street improvement projectis dependent upon existing and future traffic capacities and thedesire for amenities along the route such as landscaped median
areas.
(e/e0)
Local Streets
In previous planning efforts, Chanhassen has considered localstreets as those primari 1y serving low traffic residential areas.
Due to decreases in State and Federa'l highway funding in recentyears, local streets have begun to play a role in handling trafficthat -previously may have utilized State and County ioadways.
Examples of this situation are Trunk Highways 5 and 7 which carrysignificant traffic volumes, particularly during peak hours. DuLto congestion, motorists seek alternative routes for al1 or part oftheir journeys. At times, these routes involve local roadways.
Funding for new highways and the upgrading of exist.i ng faciliti esis not expected to significantly increase in the near-future. Asa result, the local circulation system is'l ikely to experienceaddjtional traffic, an increased percentage of which is non-localorigin and destination trips. As local street improvements are
cons'i dered in the future, capacjty projections shou'l d ref'l ect thepossibility of increased traffjc if they have the potential toserve as 'rel ievers" for higher classification roadways.
Proposed Functional Classification
Earlier in this section the Functional classifications of existing
roadways was established according to criteria contained in the
ECCTS.
Chanhassen's Comprehensive PIan analyzed the following factors indefining functional classification:
1. Current functional and jurisdictional plans and po1 icies ofthe City, Carver County, the l.letropolitan Counci'l and ilnD0T.
2
3
Forecasted
sys tem.
average daily traffic vo1 umes on the roadway
Function oflocal needs
roadway i s
Chanhassen.
the roadways in meeting regional needs versus; for example, how much traffic on a particularlocal traffic versus traffic through the City of
24
(e/eo)
4 l{eeds and abi I i ti es
expenses.
for fundi ng capi tal and operati ng
5. The findings of the Eastern Carver County Transportation
Study.
The exhibit entitled 2000 Functional Classification presents the
recommended functional classification system. The recommended
system is generally consistent with current Carver County plans.
l,laj or routes wi thi n the system i ncl ude the fo'l I owi ng:
Pri nci oal Arteri ai
Hiohway 7
Hi ghway 7 serves as one of Chanhassen ' s maj or I i nks to the
Metropol i tan area. The roadway carri es substanti al vehi cul artraffic with movement generally uninhibited by signals or major
street crossi ngs withi n Chanhassen's I imi ts. To the east, however,
Highway 7 passes through l,tlinnetonka and northern Hopkins where
signjficant congestion occurs during peak hours due to frequent
signaljzed intersections and commercial development. Recently, a
comprehensive plan for the upgrading of T.H. 7 was prepared. To
date, implementation efforts have been hampered by disagreements
between various communities along the corridor. In Chanhassen, theplan calls for turn lanes and minor local street closures.
T.H. 2t2
T.H.2l2 is a planned principal arterial which is proposed to run
diagonally through the southern portion of Chanhassen. The route
which runs from l{orwood to I-494 wil'l be a four lane dividedfacility with controlled access. Plans call for two interchangesin Chanhassen, one at T.H. 101 and the other at CSAH 17. At thepresent time, official mapping has been completed and the EIS has
been fi nal i zed. Parti al fundi ng i s currently avai I abl e for
constructi on.
l,'linor Arterial - Class I
T.H. 5 - Arboretum Boulevard
Highway 5 is the most important existing roadway in Chanhassen. It
25
(e/eo)
s
i
a
B
p
erves as the major link to the metropolitan are and because of itsocation adjacent to the population center. it provides access tolarge number of people commuting to employment in other citjes.
ecause of this, Highway 5 carries large volumes of traffic and ateak hours, is frequently congested and ineffective.
I'lithin Chanhassen, the flow of traffic along Highway 5 .is
relatively undisturbed. The roadway which consiits o? two laneswith the exception of the four'l ane portion at the intersectionwith Highway 41 is interrupted by traffic signals at 41, CSAH 17,T. H. 101 and Dakota Avenue. There are no significant ionmerciaior residential uses accessing directly onto Highway 5.
Eastbound traffic on T.H. 5 typically connects with either I-494 orT.H. 169/_Hennepin County 62. From fhe Chanhassen border to I-494,Highway 5 contains a number of signal ized intersectjons. Thi;
s'i tuation, combined with higher traffic volumes in Eden prairie,
causes significant traffic delays during peak hours
In 1987, MnD0T began a series of improvements which wi l'l
s'i gnificantly enha_nce the function of Highway 5. The first stageimprovements resulted in the construclion-of four lanes fr6m
Ilal'l ace Road to Prairie center Drive in Eden prairie. The second
. phase ga.j.]:..for construction of a four 'lane divided roadway fromwest of CSAH 4 to }Jallace Road. Currently, the final phase of theproject which should be completed by 1993 calls for conitruction ofa four lane roadway from west of csAH 17 in chanhassen to west of
CSAH 4 i n Eden Prai rj e. Chanhassen strongly advocates thecontinued extension of the T.H.5 improvements to the westernborder of the community.
Hiohwav 41 - Hazeltine Bou'l evard
The western portion of Chanhassen is bisected by Highway 41. Thisroute is an important link between Highway 212 ilong th6 ilinnesotaRiver and Highway 7-to the north. Highway 41 passes through theunsewered portion of the city where little development preiently'exis_ts and 1o significant furlher development is aniiCipaled-unti'lat least the mid 1990's. There are no significant'safety orcongestion problems along the existing roadway. The gCCfS
anticipates the need- for a ner Hwy. 4l corridor Setreen Hvy. Zl2and Hwy. 169 via a river crossing to Shakopee. The need foi this
26
(e/e0)
connection is somewhat undefined at this time and the environmental
impact of the routing could be significant along the bluffline andriver. However, it appears as though the proposed corridor could
occur in Chanhassen. It should be given further study if and when
the need for the connection becomes apparent or when utilities are
extended into the area via a Comprehensive Plan Amendment.
Minor Arteri a Class III
TH 101 - Great Plains Boulevard
Based upon the Eastern Carver County Transportation Study, it is
recommended that T.H. 101 be designated as l.linor Arterial - CIassII. The principal reasons for th'i s recommendation are:
The projected year 2010 daily vo1 umes are at the upper limit
or exceed the recommended guidelines for volumes camied by a
col I ector.
The roadway performs an important regional function connecting
sub-regions in the area.
T.H. 101 is recommended to have access to T.H. 212, a major
arteri a I .
1
3
4 The
and
T.H
tra
City has historically 'limited direct access to T.H. 101will continue to do so. Through the City of Chanhassen,. 101 intersections are generally contro'l led by eitherffic signals or stop signs on the cross streets.
lliohwav 1f1q1212 - Flvino Cloud Driva
27
2.
For discussion purposes, Highway 169 and 212 have been grouped
together since they form one continuous roadway. T.H. 169/212 is
a two lane undivided h'i ghway with no access control on the segment
vrithin Chanhassen. This road carries substantial 'farm to market'truck traffic originating in western }linnesota and bound for
destinations throughout the metropolitan area.
Col 'lector - Cl ass I streets serve as connecti ons between
nei ghborhoods and provi de access to mi nor arteri aI s, othercollectors, and'l ocal streets. }{ithin Chanhassen, the following
are classified as Collector - Class I routes:
(e /eo )
Col Iecto r Cl ass I
Mi nnewashta Parkway
Galpin Boulevard (CSAH 117)
Powers Boulevard (CSAH 17)
Collector - Class I Continued
Jurisdictional Cl assification
Consideration of functional classification is significant in theanalysis of jurisdictional classification. In general , principalarterials are under the jurisdiction of the State; minor arteria1 s- Class I are State roadways; minor arterials - C] ass II are eitherState or County roadways and co1 lector - Class I roadways are underthe jurisdiction of the City of Chanhassen. 0ther criteria which
Kerber Drive
l*|arket Boul evard
West 78th Street
Lake Dri ve
Pleasant View Road
Lake Lucy Road Including Extension
New East/l,lest Route, North of T.H. 5
l{ew East/}lest Route, South of T.H. 5
Audubon Road
Lyman Boulevard (CSAH 18)
Pioneer Trail (CSAH 18)
Bluff Creek Drive
Lake Riley Boulevard
North T.H. 5 Frontage Road
Each of these roadways contains or will contain two to four
trave'l ed lanes. Existing routes may have some direct Iand access.
These routes, as well as additiona'l ones designated in the future,are likely to carry higher traffic volumes as urban development
conti nues
28
(e/e0)
affect jurisdictjon include historicallocal access, continuity and funding
expenses.
j uri sdi cti on,for capi ta1
provisions for
and operating
In general , the current jurisdictional responsibi I ities (state,
county and local) are general 1y consistent with the above criteria
and with the recommended roadway system.
Ai rports
There are no existing or planned airports within the City of
Chanhassen. Commercia'l air service is available at Twin Cities
International Airport and general aviation js available at Flying
Cloud Airport in Eden Prairie. Flying Cloud is approx'imately 4
miles from Chanhassen.
Despite the lack of airports in Chanhassen, the City has twoprinary aviation concerns: first, that physical obstructions are
controlled and secondly, seaplane operations. At the present time,
the tallest man made structures within Chanhassen are the City's
water towers which average 135 feet. Structures under 200 feet are
not considered obstructions under State ru'l es. Radio towers arethe only potenti a1 structures that may exceed the 200 foot
threshold. If proposals for towers occur, the city *il1 require
that they comply with a'l I State, Federal and local requirements.
Lakes l.linnewashta and Riley are used by seaplanes at the present
time. To date, there have been few conflicts between boat traffic
and seaplane usage. Continued usage in these areas is not viewed
as a major issue due to the small number of aircraft and off peak
hour operation by their owners. If in the future, if the number ofaircraft increases or the potential for serious usage conflicts
occurs, the City may work w'i th State and regional authorities tolimit or ban seaplane usage.
Transi t
The preceding sections of this plan have considered transportationprimarily in the context of the private automobile. A1 thoughprivate cars comprise the most commonly used mode of transportationfor Chanhassen residents, forms of mass transit are also important.
?9
(e/eo)
Two forms of mass transit, busses and light rail, are specif.i c
components of this p1an.
Busses - In late 1986, Chanhassen joined the cities of Eden prairie
and Chaska in the creation of the Southwest Area Transit Commiss.i onto provide transit service known as the Southwest l,letro. At thepresent time, the system offers basic levels of services. Servjce
inc1 udes fixed schedule routes, a dial-a-ride program and expressservice to downtown Minneapolis. Chanhassen's fixed scheduleroute, labeled Stl53J, foliows T.H.41 from Chaska to T.H.5 andfollows T.H.5 east into Eden Prairie with a pass through the
downtown Chanhassen area.
Chanhassen's contract with Chaska and Eden Prairie is a joint
powers agreement renewable on an annual bas.i s. The City willcontinue to monitor the effectiveness of the Southwest l.letro
program in providing cost effectjve transit service to the City of
Chanhassen.
In July, 1990, the Southwest iletro Transit Comnission completed a
Park and Ride Study. The study is used to evaluate existing park
and ride facilities and propose new ones. In addition, the reportIists potential new services Southwest lletro may consider'and
glopgses new policy agendas to promote Travel Demand llanagement
(TDtl) strategies. A copy of this report is provided as an appendixto this Plan.
Chanhassen cumently maintains a park and ride stop on t{arketBoulevard. At the time of rriting, the Chanhassen Housing and
Redevelopment Authority is rorking with Southwest lletro to relocatethe stop slightly to the east on a Iocation that provides improvedutilization and permanent parking facilities.
The City will also work rith Southwest iletro to locate park andride stops at the future Hwy. l0l/Hwy. 212 interchange andpotentially at the east end of the Central Business District in
accordance rith the Plan.
The City has requested the Southrest lletro provide reverse comtute
service into the City as soon as feasible. The City's rapid grorth
as an employment concentration rarrants servlce to facilitatE rorktri ps.
30
(e/eo)
Lastly, the City supports investigation of TDl,l strategies to reducetrip leve1s on area roads. The City will be advocating the
development of a multi-cormunity, multi-county partnership with the
business cormunity to promote these strategies.
Lioht Rail Transit (LRT) - Light rail transit is a mode of
transportation that is currently being considered for constructionin the Twin Cities l.letropolitan Area. In 1987, Hennepin County
received authorization from the State Legislature to prepare a
Comprehensive LRT System Plan for Hennepin County. The Hennepin
County Board intends to implement light rai'l transit in the county
by 1990. Toward that end, the County establjshed the Hennepin
County Regional Railroad Authority to administer, at 'l east, theinitjal stage of the system. Hennepin County owns rai'l road
right-of-way from downtown Minneapoljs to Victoria. 0ther countiesin the metropolitan area have followed Hennepin County's lead and
have also established railroad authorities.
Early system planning has identified two routes, one or both of
which may ultimateiy be extended into Chanhassen. 0f the two, the
northern alignment has recejved the highest priority. Although
both alignments provide potentjal benefits to Chanhassen residents,
neither significantly impacts the city in terms of'l and use anddirect accessib'i Iity. There are no proposed station sites within
Chanhassen's borders.
The northern alignment which has an identified station in Excelsjor
provides the most benefit to Chanhassen since the City's population
resides primarily in the northern half of the cormunity. The
southern al i gnment travel s al ong the bl uff area i n southern
Chanhassen which is presently outside of the i|USA'l ine area and notlikely to see urban development within the time frame of this plan.
As a result, it is viewed as somewhat of a conmuting route from
Chaska to downtown lilinneapolis and various stations along the
route.
If the northern route is eventually implemented, Chanhassenresidents wishing to use the system will have to rely on bustransit connections to Excelsior (if avai lable) or will requirepark and ride sites in the vicinity of the station. The City will
continue to monitor the implementation of light rail and station
3r
Chanhassen's transportation system has been the subject of variousstudies since 1968. Since that time, the syitem has seensignificant improvements such as the construction of CSAH 17,
improvement of Lake Lucy Road, construction of Kerber Boulevard,reconstruction of downtown streets and the current improvements to
T. H. 5.
Chanhassen's roadway system can be cl assified into routes thatserve primarily Iocal residents such as Kerber Boulevard and routesthat serve regional and statewide travelers in addition to Iocalresidents. T.H.5 and T.H. 101 are examples of routes in the
0ver the past few years, however, impl ementi ng pl annedtransportation projects has become an increasingly difficult task.This has occurred primarily due to reductions in-federal spendingwhich means that state and local governments have fewer avlitautEresources. This pattern has placed added pressure on the budgetsof the Minnesota Department of Transportation and the City of
Chanhassen.
The planned improvements to T.H. 5 and T.H. ZLZ are evidence ofthis trend. Chanhassen along with adjacent municipal ities andapplicable counties funded a portion of the cost of the preparationof the environmental impact statement (EIS) for T.H. Zl2.Additionally, the City a'llocated $50,000 over a two year period toexpedite the design and eventual construction of the T.H.5improvements. Chanhassen also contributed to the preparation ofthe T.H. 7 Corridor Study that was completed in 1986.
The City of Chanhassen recognizes that transportation projects overthe next 10 to 20 years will continue to require local iesources.This raises trro immediate concerns: 1) that local money be used tofund projects that p_rincipally serve loca'l residents lnd 2) what
sources of addi ti onal f unds wi'l 'l be avai I ab] e?
second category. Routes that serve large volumes of regionalstatewide traffic are the principal responsibi'lity of the-Ilinnes
Department of Transportation and in some casei, Carver Coun
32
and
ota
ty.
(e/eo)
plans to assess their adequacy and their impact on existing privatepatterns and bus transit systems.
Impl ementati on
(e/eo)
Therefore, City participation in
routes wi 'l I be 'l i mi ted .
funding improvements to such
Limited participation in regional routes and total participation inlocal routes will cont'i nue to require additional funding by the
City of Chanhassen. Sources of such funds may include Chapter 429
assessments, the general fund, tax increment financing and impactfees. Impact fees which require major new developers to fund
portions of directly related transportation projects are beginning
to be used by Twin City area municipalities. This concept will be
closely reviewed to determine its applicability to Chanhassen.
Inplementation of the Recormended System_
The overall general recommendation of this plan is to implement the
Recommended System. The following general steps rvill be taken'i n
order to accomplish this task.
Interaoencv Cooperation - Chanhassen wil l continue to work with the
Mj nnesota Department of Transportati on, the I'letropol i tan Counci I ,Carver County and adjacent municipalities to implement roadway andtransit improvements including a light rail system.
Fundino Sources - Chanhassen will continue to investigate all
sources of federal , state, regional, local and private sources oftransportation funding where possible for'l ocal lobbying groups
seeking transportation improvements providing such improvements areidentified in this p'lan and are consistent with City priorities.
System lllonjtorinq - Transportation improvements need to keep pace
with urban development. T.H. 5 is a current example of a routethat is operating far beyond reasonab'l e capacity. This impacts theresidential , commercia'l and industrial segments of the corununity.In an attempt to avoid aggravating existing problems and creatingfuture deficiencies, the city will closely monitor all developmentproposals. Detailed circulation and access plans will be requiredto assess the impact of proposed major new developments on both theexisting and future transportation systems
33
CIhI*IASSEN PLAliilIlG OOIIIISSI(I'I
REGI'LAR I.EETING
ocToaER 3, 199()
Vice Chairman Erhart called thc meeting to order
lflGERS PRESEI{T: Stcve Emmi ngs , Annettc EI lson ,
l.l i Idermuth , and Joan Ahrens
I'EIGERS ABSENT: Lldd Conrad and Brian Batzli
STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, Planning Dircctor;Planner; Sharmin Al-Jaff, Planner 1; and Charles
at 7:3O p.m. .
Tim Erhart, Jim
nn Olsen,ch, Asst.
Scni orCity E ng i ncer
JoA
FoI
R'BLIC IfARING:
OOiDITIO}IAL t,SE PER,iIT FOR A RESTflNANT AIS BAR O{ PR@ERTY ZOED B{.
I€IGI.BORHOOO BI,SI}ESS OISTRICT fltD L(EATED IN TTE SEVEN-FMTY oiE CROSSII{G
S}IOPPTNG I:FNYFR - DT'S PFS T AI NAIY . IFFF TEETT' T'
Public Prcscnt:
Name
3667 Falconray, Eagan
HRttA . l,,li nncapol is
2461 tlest 64th Str.et
6480 Oriole Avcnue
5451 Oriole Avcnue
6345 |linncwashta l.Joods Dr ive
Paul Krauss presented the staff report on this item. Vice Chairman ErhartcalIed the public hearing to ordGr.
Judy Hinklin: Hy nam€ is Judy Hinklin. I live at 6345 l.iinncnashta l.toodsDrive urhich is west of TH 41 and south of TH 7. I'm just londcrine if anyof the people on the Planning Commission, if you livc in that area?
Emmings: I live up by there.
Judy Hinklin: You do?
Emmings: On L.kc itinncuashta.
Judy Hinklin: Okay. And do you hrvc to gct lnto your home by u8lng TH 7?
Emmings: Yes.
Judy Hinklin: Okry. And hou nany pcoplc rho arc propoaing to put thercstaurant in that arca livc in that lcctlon?
Tim l.lhitten: ArG you rsking lbout thc rc8trurant?
Judy Hinklin: Ya6.
Jcff lrrthum: I don't live in this arca, no.
Addr ess
Jeff Irrthum
Tim l.lhi tten
Gary & Jan Reed
Dale & Kelly Hance
Don & Fayadel Dudycha
Judy Hinklin
Planning Commission ileeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 2
Judy Hinklin: Okay. The concern that I have is that there are so many
homes going into that arca and if the people here think that the major
issue is parking, they've got the whole thing all rrong. To me I don't
really care where the people park. I mean I'm happy that there's going to
be development and it's done right. I think we need a rcstaurant in that -
area but I think that people should look at thc fact that TH 7 today is a
very r.lidely used highway and the pcoplc that have to com. off of TH 7 andget into that residential area at night, durlng rush hour traffic, it's
very dangerous. TH 7 nceds to bc modificd in some way. I nean you've got
alI this traffic.that area and it'sputting a restaura noff going into the restaurant, that mca
turn around and come back and that's a
the people that live in that area thinkto get home at night and thcre's been a
Youavtt
've got cars going 50 mph and )rou'r. turning off into
ery dangerous arca and now you'ra thinking about
here and if pcople movc pest TH 41 and miss the turnnth
rea Iit'
cou
at they've got to drive doun,
dangerous area. I know thats called dcad on 7. Just tryin!-ple of times in the Iast coupleof months trhere I've had people come head on to me trying to get into thatarea. So I think the Planning Commission has got to look at TH 7 and have -like a long term view of ulhat they're going to do with that area. tlhen
they put the shopping center in, they took Oriola Avenu€ out so that Has
one less road that ue had to access TH 41. Okay, so you've got 2 roadsthat goes into that development. You've got a Iot of homes in there. Alot of children. A ]ot of traffic. You've got TH 7 which is very narrow
and nothing has been done. It's still SO mph and I rcally think that
somebody who's in control should really take a look at TH 7 end 6tart
Iooking at all this traffic that's going to start going through there for
the shopping center and now a restaurant. I mean it's a major concern and
anybody that thinks that it isn't, they're not looking at lt and I'm real
concerned that somebody's ooing to cnd up dead someday and somebody's goins
to say hey. Somebody said something. l.le HCre on the Plannlng Commission
and we didn't do anything about it. AII we uorried about was parking
okay and so that's my main concern. You've got to take a look at TH 7 and
TH 41 and if nothing is done soon, thcn I thlnk the pcoplc, if thcy Put a
restaurant in there, they've got to havc somc huge gigns ray before you get
to TH 41 saying turn off at TH 41 and get in through that small 6ntranceura)-that goes through the gas station that's prcviously therc becaus€ once you
go past TH 41 , coming back is going to be a rcal bear and it's going to be
a rcal hazard. The only suggestions f can think of ls that somebodypetition to reduce the speed around that arca so that peoplc arcn't going
50 mph around that intcrscction rnd that m.ybc .omo moro ccntcr lslands beput in Hest of TH 41 Hhere you turn off into thc devclopmcnt. Therc is aleft hand turn lane but there isn't any ccmGnt or anything tcllinc pcople
that arc coming cast that thc), can't try and pass on thc right hand side.
Erhart: Excusc na a minutc Judy. Can f ask Paul to rcspond xho's gotjurisdiction ovGr TH 7 and if the City ha8 contrlbut.d eny lnput onto this
Iong tcrm problem.
Kraussr sure. Highway 7 is notoriously poorly dcsignsd and it's becn, you
know it's a State Highway. It's bean design.d to that klnd of rt grade
arterial standard and l,lnDot's lookcd at it and thare ia no major
improvement program for TH 7. Hoxcvcr, Chanhasscn 2 or 3 years lgoparticipated with a numbcr of other communitics and rith l,lnDot to comPlcte
the TH 7 corridor study rrhich suggcats a numbcr of lncrcmcntal imProv6mcntsthat arc going to bc undertaken b)r l,lnDot as funding is availablc ovcr the
Planning Commission l.leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 3
years to improve the safety of IH 7. There's a number of projects thatwere talked about in that rcport. It's my undersland that they,re startingto undertake some of those. Not in Chanhassen so far but in Shorewood.
There is, I uould hazard a statement that the r€staurant itself as beingproposed is not the problem. I mean thc rotail traffic is going to bethere regardless of uhether it's a restaurant or sorne other store. TH 7 isthe problem and uc'rc aware of it. l.le've tried to get the rthcels turningto resolve that. It's not as fast a procGss as ne could like but ue don'thave authority to make improvcmcnts ourselves on TH 7. Thc City's alsorecognized the probtems on l,|innewashta BIvd. which doasn't help youdirectly but Hinnewashta BIvd. is programmed to be rebuilt hopefully nextyear and the interseclion on TH 7 is one of thc problcm ar.as that would bedealt uith at that time so to the extent that wc can make inprovements, weare trying to do that.
Erhart: Okay. Is there e pcrson that you can give to Judy to talk at theStaLe directly?
Krauss: Sure.
Judy Hinklin: The thing is that I've, it's bcen my expcricnce in uorkinguith people in the Chanhassen area. tle have a park that,s supposed to goin that area because there are so many children and the land xas given tothe people in that area 10 years ago. Not only that but the man whodonated the property also gave funding for thc park. That was 10 years agoand every year nobl I've gone to the meetings for the park committee. Ueeven had a neighborhood committce formed. Nothing has been done and theypromised us lhat lhis year the park uould be built. And nothing gets done.
l^le go to these meetings and evcrybody tells us lrc're voLuntcers and ue'redoing the best we can and it's t,orthless and I'm getting kind ofdissatisfied uith it. Nor., you're putting in e rcstaurant and I'm tellingyou that TH 7 is a very danEerous area and lf you have any authority atal.l, I'm telling you you've got to talk to pcople because somcbody's 9oin9to die someday. And a restaurant or anything clse just isn,t Eorth it.
Erhart: I appreciate your comments. I think nhat we'rc saying is wercally don't have any authority other than a passive one that TH 7 hastried to coerce the State of l.ti nnssota to improvc it and re'vc been workinguith surrounding cities to do that. Ragarding the park issuc, .re youfamiliar uri th that?
Krauss:
Erhart:
that .
No. That's sonethlng that re can inquire about tomorrow.
Okay. If you could caII Paul , hc could givc you an .ns[er on
Judy Hinklin: I'm just Baying that you know, pcople tcll nc to c6ll and Necall and nothlng's baing donc and this to mc, this is norc important thanthe park issue. f just want paoplc to knor.l that. Thlt tf they're going to
Put a restaurant in there, thcytve got to do cvcrythlng that they possibly
can to divert the traffic to nake surc thcy turn on TH 41 and not put anymore traffic than nccess.ry on TH 7, cspeclally durlng thc rush hougetraffic if nothing is going to bc done to that highr.ray. Okay?
Planning Commission Heeling
October 3, 1990 - Page 4
Erhart: Okay, thank you. Is there an)u othcr
the developcr respond to the recommendat ions?
ue tal
some o
change
public comment before we let -Is the developer here?
Tim tlhitten: Yes.
Erhart: Do you have a copy of the staff racommendations?
Tim tlhitten: Yes.
Erhert: Okay. l.lould you like to comment on them or anything else?
Tim l.lhiLten: Ycah, t.le've been working with the staff and agrced with theiv
recommendations to date. l.le agrGe that thera are conditions in the report.
tJe did have the neighborhood meeting just this last Honday. 6 people and
kedftdb
about issues that were really morc in line with tha...issue and -he past history. tle explained that part of the ownership has
ecause of the difficulty and things are being handled and uill be
taken care of as far as past history. I also have Jeff Irrthum who is the -
one planning the restaurant available too to lnswer any questions
concerning the restaurant.
Erhart: Okay. and your name was?
Tim t,lhicten: Hy name is Tim tlhitten. . .
Erhart: okay, Tim we might have some questions from the Planning
Commission members here. Thank you. Any oth6r public lnput on this?
Erhart: tlhat's the most important issue ln your aind to gct this
Iandscaping issue fi xed?
Gary Reed: I'd like to make a comment.
Erhart: Your name?
cary Reed: l.ty name is Gary Rccd and I livc dircctly south of the shopping
center and r.re've been concerncd of course ebout the landscaping and the
issue of 64th Street which sounds like it's going to be rcsolvad. I'm just
wondering if they have a timcframe on that? tle'vc becn sitting and uaitinefor them to finish that for e y.ar nox. I gucss I'd like to Pinpoint
eomebody on it...talking about Novcmber 15th or something... 8ut by that
time it's too late to do the work you know...
Gary Reed: That's one of th€ nore important issucs and thcn f did rcqucst -the other night at the neighborhood rnectlne tonc morc .cracnlne eo up onthe south side b.cause He'rc Juet faced wlth a loner block rall shich just
reflects all the sound back into our yard and lt's not thc no3t pleasant
thing to look at. The back has all the air conditioning units end thoselre supposed to...and thcy havc scrcening...so I think, ls it Judy? Ycah,I think her point is well takcn that they nced somc signagc on TH 7 for
wcstbound traffic because thcy're going to go down and do a U turn at
Oriole Avenue which is e very dangcrous intcrsection anyuly. And so Ithink the shopping c6nt6r as a uhole nccds signagc down thcrc et supcr
America or uhatever so pcoplc can make a turn rt TH 41 rathcr than goingp.st it and thcn trying to gct back to lt.
Erhart: okay, thanks Jerry. Anybody else?
Jan Reed: Hi. I'm Jan Reed. Gary's uife. I just wanted to add one more
comment. tlhen he mentioned about the road and it's something that's a
concern to me. Right nou there's a yield sign coming out Orchard, coming
out of tlest 54th Street circle and it's a yield coming off of that but the
Orchard coming down the hill has the right-of-way going out to TH 7. tlhenyou're turning off of TH 7, these cars that have the right-of-Hay come down
right in front of you and I r,rould like to see a little more signage there
that there's a joint yield or som6 more signage bccause that does get to be
a little bottlenecked sometimes and if in fact people are going to be
coming and making some U turns, that needs to be looked at. Also, coming
down TH 41 lrlonday night after the meeting, Ne Nent back TH 41 and went to
turn in there to eat at one of the restaurants and there is not very good
signage up on TH 4! for the entrance there. It's very dark. There'snothing. There's no markers or anything right on TH 41 and I presume you're
going to do more r.rith lighting there but right now it is real dark.
Erhart: Excuse me a minute Jan. tlould you poinL out where on the map thatthis intersection is?
I'm afraid it's off of this map l,lr. Chairman. It's to the west ofKrauss:
here.
Erhart: Jan, did you get comPleted
Okay, thank you. Anybody clse? Ifpublic hear i ng .
thcre? I didn't meen to cut you off.not I'd invltc r motion to close the
Erhart: okay, It's a north/south street entrance?
Krauss: Right. And those are both local streets and that's something we
have authority to do what we think is necessary over. I can ask the
engineering department to look into that. The Assistant City Engineer is
here tonight and we can put it on his list of things to do. The question
of lighting out on TH 41 is one that we've been att€mpting to rectify and
there is supposed to be lighting installed as one of the conditions of
appr ova I .
Emmings: To be done by the developer?
Krauss: Yes.
Emri nep novcd, Ellgon .oeond to clooc thc publ ic hcarinft. AII votcd in
favor and the rotion carricd. Thc atbltc hcar ing ras clogcd.
Erhart: okay, Steve uould you like to start?
Emmings: Sure. I'm curious about the compliance problems. Do you feel
that you've got urhatever leverage you need to get them to comPly with
ohatever eonditions they haven't complied Hith es far as the site goes?
Planning Commission l'leet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 5
Gary Reed: It's really hard to find coming down at niEht coming from thesouth. Just reflectors or anythine at this point tcmporaril)r until they doget their signage in or uhatever rould help People...
Planning Commission l{eet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 5
Krauss: tle do have an outstanding lctter of credit so we do have their
money which to us is the ultimatc line of dcfons€ xith this. tle try touork these thinEs out as rcasonably and diplomatically as possible.
Unfortunately ue've been somowha! frustrated in this case but we have everFexpectation that it's going to bc taken car€ of in short order and thet'suhy ue've established that deadline.
Emmings: l.lhat's changcd that makes you, I mean are they making promisesget this thing through?
Krauss: Yes they are.
tc
Emmings: Is that the only rGason they'16 doine it? Do wc have anyto believe them? Based on past performance.reason
Krauss: tlell, ue are dealing uith some diffcrcnt .individuals which I thinl.is significant in this case. Sccondly, if alI clse fails, we've already
committed to cashing the letter of crcdit on Novcmber 15th and doing itourselves so one way or the other it's going to happen.
Emmings: Should ue condition this approval on alI of those things being
taken care of?
Krauss: l.le uould not oppose that.
Krauss:permit's a
or
To set
i ssued
specific deadline on that, xould that bcforc buildingbefore certificate of occupancy?
Emmings: l.lhat gives you the most lcvcrage to gct the tork done?
Krauss: The building permit's morc. I mean it uill comc up sooner.
Emmi ngs :
hold overstart . . .
I don't Hant to heng thcm up. I just uant atheir heads so they can gct thcir nork done.
rray r aonethi ng toIf thcy no6d to
Krauss: Attaching itcverything done.
to th€ CO pould givc thcm morc flcxlbility to eet
Emmings: Let's do that. So it uill bc compliancc prior to issuance ofc€rtificate of occupancy. Okay. Othcrwisc, I thought thc staff report wa:-
Emmings: ueII I would suggest that ua add a condition hcrc to conditionthis approva.l on compliance with, I don't know, shatever hasn't been
complied Lrith to date because there's no cxcuse for tha! and I don't feellike doing any more for them until they do what they said thcy'd do in thepast .
Emmings: I'm not underetanding.
Krauss: tlell ue could .lther attech thls condiClon to the l.suancc of abuilding permit in which case thcy cannot do any tork until cvcrything'scompleted or ue could attach this to thc lssurncc of a ccrtificatc of
occupancy at uhich case thcy could rork both on thc rcstaurant andresolution of the problcms .
Planning Commission l,leet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 7
very detailed and very thorough. lrhat are the hours of this place? Ididn't see it in here
Krauss: It said 11:OO to 12:30 p.m..
Emmings: 11:OO a.m. to 12:30 p.m.?
Krauss: Yep.
Tim whitten: 12:30 e-m..
Emmings: 12:30 a.m., right. The TH 7 is an incrcdibly dangerous road. Iendorse everything that Has said back here. To put it very crudely, thepile of bodies has not gottcn high enough for the Departnent ofTransportation to respond and we're just going to have to achiestack of bodies to get their attention. Up in my ncighborhoodtrying to get them to do something for a long time. I have to7 and I see accidents there regularly. There's no one in our n
who doesn't have a neighbor who's had an accldent on TH 7. It,but we can't get them to do anything. Anybray, that hotb,ithstanthi.s proposal with the changes I talked about.
vet
we 'v
hate beenff of TH
bor hoodrrible
I'm for
goo
eigh
sho
di ng
Ellson: I don't have anything new to add. I think it all looks pretty cutand dry and urelcome to Chanhassen.
Nildermuth: I agree uith Steve's comments. I think the staff did ajob on this. In the recommendations I don't see anything aboutinstaLlation of a light near TH 7.
good
Krauss: That's something that we conditloned in thc original approval andI believe we have a signed cornmitment from them alrcady to go ahead uiththat .
t,i Idermuth: okay .
requirements?
So there's no point in putting it in these
Xrauss: No. It's unfortunatc that as far as highuay dcvelopment isconcerned that infrastructure akaya follows rcsidcntial and commercial
development but I guess that sc€ms to bc the nay. ft'E cortlinly been ther.ay on TH 5. About th€ only recoursc uc have is to attack thcirlegislators. Other than that I aupport the motion.
Ahrens: I don't havc anything furth.r tbout thc rcst.urant ltsclf but I,ma little conccrned about xhat's golng into that lhopping ccntcr ln general .I sau in your report thet thcro's admi nistrativcly authorizcd theconstruction of an outdoor play arca for a daycarc otl thc eouth side of thebuildins. Nor{ lsn't that right bchlnd 3 cating c6t.blishm.nts?
Krauss: It's inbctwccn thcm.
Ahrens: So th€re's going to be parking back therc and trash?
Krauss: Actually that's not on this plan. Thc rcar parking lot has bcenmodificd to eccommodatc that. Baslcally a numbcr of stalls wcre deleted inthis rear aislc here with a barricr typc of thing. The play arca will
PIanning Commission lieeting
October 3, 1990 - Page I
Ahrens: It may uor k
doesn'! seem to uJor k
movement standpoint but it ccrtainly
Audience: The daycare isn't Eoing in now.
Oh, it's not?
They don't have enough Doney to make thc deal so...
I guess we don't have to r.rorry about it thcn.
from a traffic
from a. . .
thanks Joan. Picking up on that for the purpose
did r.re understand that the daycarc ccnter is not
Krauss: That eras my undcrstendin$, yeah.
Ahrens: t think that should be looked at. I mcan it s6ems to me that we
didn't hear anything about the daycare but I wouldn't think that that woulc
be a very good mix in this kind of a center. Behind a bar and rcstaurant
urhere there's going to be garbage stored back thcre and cars and traffic.
Krauss: r guess I vieued it from two contexts. It's a permitted use inthat center and it met State Standards for uhat thcy look for in daycares
and it uouldn't be the first daycare to be in that type of situation...aparent r.rould be somewhat relunctant to use that. But that's a decisionthat each parent uould have to make. I guess from phat ue hear tonight
from one of the owners, that's a moot point at this juncture but daycare iL
a permitted use in that district.
Ahrens: I realize that. I thi.nk it should just bc looked at in the future
though when approvals are given for that type of use. l.lhether that's the
best spot and I realize the daycare chose that sPot but' I have no further
comments.
Kr auss :
Audience:
Krauss:
Erhart:
Mi nutes .
okay,
PauI ,
of the
going in?
Erhart: okay, to that point I guess from ny comments. f Lronder whetherit's appropriate to havc the daycarc dropoff polnt in csscntially a public
parking lot. Normal daycares that I think about, the parking usually is
usually by itself. The dropoff point 3o {t's somcthing that xc nay Hant tothink about
Erhart: Okay. Let mcthat south boundary?
9o into this hcrc. Nhat is the curront acrcening or
protrude out to here with a protective bollards and traffic uould be routed
around it. It r.ror ked from a traffic movement standpoint
Audience: That particular daycar€ cGntcr is not going in. And if re uould
do another daycare center, it would probably bc at thc othcr cnd and theplayground would in the front
Krauss: They fit these in in quit6 a fcw placcs. In fact, egain as aparent my son's using a daycare right now that's ln a strip shopping maII
on the end and they actually use part of the parking lot to bc the play
area in the front and it's aII roped off and fcnccd off.
Planning Commission Heeti ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 9
Krauss: It's
deciduous and
very meager. If there's anythj.ng there,
it really doesn't do an effective job at
it 's pr obab I y
aIl.
Erhart: tlhat was our thinking when we approved it?
Emmings: There were evergreens in there I remamber.
Kraussr And that's part of h,hat's missing from their landscaping
installation. But even if the material is installed consistent u,ith theoriginal approvals, in my vieh, it doesn't do quite enough and uhat ue
uanted was something more substantial.
Ahrens: lJas that where you mentioned the 4 trees?
Krauss: Hhere I asked you to delete the 4 and that really shouldn'L be
Iimited as to number. See h,hat r.,e bJere getting 4 trees uith the daycare
center right behind their play structure. That plus the trees that urere
supposed to be insLal]ed anyway plus additional trees for PJ's may have
come close to doing the job but what I'd like you Lo do is modify that
condition so we get a screen back there and b,hatever it takes to achieve
that screen, whelher it's 4 trees or 40 trees, that that be done.
Erhart: Are you suggesting then that we rewrite
more leverage on the Iandscaping and screening?
the conditions to give us
Krauss: Yes. Basically I uould reword condition 1 to read a revised
Iandscaping plan shalI be submitted providing, cross out 4 and just add inadditional coniferous trees.
Erhart: Hor4 about to meeL or exceed our currenL requirements?
buffer for homes to theKrauss: l.Jel I you could say to provide a visual
south so we know what we're trying to achieve.
Erhart: Do you think our current requirements, wethis kind of a development for scre€ning, tlhat is have a standard here for
that?
Krauss: I don't think there's a specific standard. I mean there's a l per
40 and that really doesn't do lt in a case like this.
Erhart: Okay. You think thet you can respond to this issuc of signage.fs that in here?
Krauss: No it's not and I gucss that prescnts a problcm. ff uhat's
required is a sign a qurrter mila orst of ths site on TH 7, rde're talking
about putting an off prcmise advertising sign in a residential neighborhood
and r.rhile it may be uarranted to considor one for safcLy rsasons in this
case and r.re do have an out ln the ordinance that allohrs us to consider
something for safety reasons, it has some pretty serious implications for
where these signs might pop up alsewhere in the community. l.re can
cerlainly look at it but ue're a little biC relunctant to throw the door
oPen.
Erhart: Hor..l does a sign improve safety? Explain that to me.
Krauss! That'sinstalled.
Planning Commission Heet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 10
Krauss: t,ell if it gives people an early notice that they should turn
south onto TH 41 to enter into the center, it does achiev€ a purpose.I think that by and large anybod), uho goes to th6 shopping center more thanonce is 9oin9 to learn that but you do havc that lcarning proccss Co get
through.
Erhart: And the Iight situation is uhat?
in the process of being rcsolvcd. A licht will be
Erhart: And that's another thing that lasn't donc on tinre?
Krauss: Right. trell it Hrs an additional rcguircmcnt though. That uassomething that u,e added on after the approval ovcr the course of the
summer.
Erhart: Hor.r long is it going to take to conatruct this restaurant? Ifit's approved, when do you see this thine eetting opcned?
Tim l.Jhitten: Approximately 5 t.,eeks.
Erhart: Okay, if we make that condltion t"rith the, yeah because now is thetime to put those trees in and ue shouldn't bc r.raiting. I guess uhat Idon't urant to see is r.rai! until next spring. tle get to the Oeccmber lsthand then we'Il say brell nou the ground is frozcn Ee can't put these
evergreens in. This is the time to put them in right now and I guess I'dlike to see Steve in this condition that the landscaping, the screeninggets put in prior to freeze-up because I knou t.lha!'s 9oin9 to happen.They're going to get to December and then thcy'ra going to say, weII nowthe ground is froze, can we get an cxtcnsion?
Emmings: They don't get a certificatc of occupancy unlass they,ve got itdone. It's a condition.
Erhart: okay. I have a question herc. You stat6 that other opportunitiesinclude the restriping of the parking lot to use thc a l/Z fooL uide stallscurrently all.oued under thc ordinancc that ras rcccntly rcdrafted. DidI miss that tonight or what ulas that?
Krauss: It was last fall and it grcl, out of I gucss it ras initiated bythe City's review of the C6nv.sco proposal and a conccrn that our parking
standards just didn't cut it and thcrc
ordinance pertaining to parking. Ona
decreased dimensions for parking stallsmaller than they u6re 20 ycars ago buaisles and other things.
a complctc rcdraft of the cntire
hc thinss it did $as catablishrccognition that care lerelncrcascd raquiraocnts for dr ive
and f
esonable-
raaofta lnrlt
Erhart: Okay, thanks. Other then thosa conccrns, I think lc ought to mlkeabsolutely sure that r€ally thera's no rcason rdhy this should go lheadwithout getting some of the iasues rcsolvcd rith thc aitc to bcgin uith.I'm hoping that the neu, either lf it's a n€t., ounar or ncw pcopcontact, they're committcd to do that bccausc I think xc oughtevery measure to see that this is installcd th6 t.r!y lt wes apprsupport the residents concern on that. l.Jith that I gucss it's
o.
ake
Ie ttot
oVcdere
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 11
development to the area and the City Council will be acting directly on theIiquor permit and if there's some concerns trith that, you'II have to attendthat meeting directly. So uith that I'll look for a motion.
Emmings: I'd like to move the Planning Commission rccommend approval ofConditional Use Permit $9O-4 for PJ's Restaurant with the followingconditions. Condition number l wiII rcad as follows and be modified toread, that a revised landscaping plan shall bc submitted providing
addiLional coniferous tre€s and other veg€tetion south of PJ's Restaurantsite and a letter of credit covering the cost and installation of treesr.lill be required and held for one y€ar after the planCing. It is
understood that the object hcre is to provide a visual buffer to the south.
Krauss: Commissioner Emmings, as you read that I gucss I'd ask for afurther modification. That the coniferous trecs hot just be south of pJ's
Restaurant but that it be south of the shopping c.nter so change the
wording.
Emmings: Okay.
Erhart: Since you've interrupted, what about the wcst?
Krauss: The west is pretty r.rell taken care of.
Emmings: There's a big hill there. I'll modify numbcr 1 in accordancewith PauI's commenLs. 2 will stay as it is. 3 otill stay as it is and 4
new condition be added that states that prior to the issuance of aCertificate of Occupancy, there shall be compliance nith aIl conditionspreviously attached to other approvals on this site.
Erhart: Is there a second?
t,ildermuth: Second.
Erhart: Any discussion?
a
Judy Hinklin: Did I understand
Prevent some type of a problcm
learning process for peoplc toIf that's r.rhat you said, I rcac
Paul to say thrt this signage uouldthat this r.las goi ng to be just !out hou to gct into this rsstaurant?hat commcnt bccause you don't live in
any pcoplc arc in thcrc and how many
ng you it's a bad area. If you have togreat lcarning cxpcricnce, I think
you
andfi ndntt
oHncllisa
on't rcalizc h
here and I'n t
ou think that'
that area. You dchildren are in t
you're Just sorrlcd about putting up 4 pine trces, f meanthe pcoplc xho have homcs that arc adjacent to that
lose a life and yyou're wrong. IfI aympathize withproperty but I think you pcoplc havc rcally got to push for signs that t6llpeople how to get into that place bcfore th.y rcrch TH 41 end you've alsogot to do something about. thc speed at that corner. ft can't be 5O mph.
Erhart: Okay, but r.le don't have any jurisdiction ovcr the spccd.
Judy Hinklin: Yes but his comm.cnt saying that thls is goinE to present a
Problem urith the signagc, f don't carc rhat kind of a problcm it prcsentsfor you to look into it or to dcmand something. tlc llvc in this arca. It'sa bad problem and I think comcbody's rcally got to look at it. Someday
Planning commission Heet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 12
PUBLIC HEARING:
HTLLS. JOHN KLINGEL}il,'TZ.
Public PrGscnt:
Name Ad dr css
Raymond LewisAl fverson
Richard HeIslrom
Sue Kr ienke
Hugh Jaeser
John KI i ngel hutz
9701 Lakc Rilcy Blvd.
15OO Park Dr ive
15OO Prrk Or iv€
15OO Park Driv€
32O Ucst 76th Street, *2OL
35O Elst Huy. 12, Chaska
somebody's going to lose their life and then it will be too late.
Erhart: Thank you. Is there any other discussion?
Enmings movcd, Uilderruth sccondcd th.t tho Planning Comi;:ion rcco,omend
epproval of Condltional Usc Pcrrit l9O-rt for PJ'8 Rcstaur.nt rlth thrfolloning conditions:
1. A revised landscaping plan shall be submitt€d providing additionaLconiferous Lrees and other vcgctation south of the shopping center anda leLter of credit covering the cost and installation of trees will berequired and held for one ycar aftcr thc planting. It is undcrstoodthat the object here is to providc a visual buffer to thc south.
2- The proof of parking plan is accepted uith the following conditions:
a. Calculations shall be provided vcrifying internal parking lot
Iandscaping meets the parking ordinance requirements.
b. A revised landscaping plan shall be submitted providing descriptionof internal parking lot landscaping.
c. The 9 stalls on the east side of the buildins shall be constructed -
prior to the opening of PJ's Restaurant.
d. No additional restaurants will be permitted in the Seven Forty-One -Crossing Shopping Ccnter.
e. The additional parking 6hown on the proof of parking plan will beconstructed within 6 months of bcing rcquired by Planning Staff.
3. All trash shall be stored intcrnally
4. Prior to the issuance of a Ccrtificatc of Occupancy, therc shall be
compliance with aIl conditions prcviously attached to other approvalson lhis site.
AlL votcd in favor lrd thc rotion carrld unrnirously.
Planning Commission tteet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 13
8i I I Engelhardt
BiIl Rudni c k i
Don S i tter
Joe Hautma n
Dave Nickolay
Norm Grant
OaIe Boyer
Dennis Ba ker
meet the requirements. Thcy all meet th€matter of getting those adjustcd to ths 9up is an issuc that came up aftsr the facplans and the staff Has 9oin9 to rcvlewin
Southh,est Corridor road study. fn that r
Suite 4OOSuite 4OO
,OOO square fc€t. It's just acct. Thc othcr thinE that cameftcr pc had submitted all the
hcm, uas the Crrvor County or
atudy they're rGcommending the
LLOT
LLOT
9249
8551
a500
9201
9005
92t9
Hazelti n
Hazeltin
Lake Ril
Tigua Ci
Tigua Ci
Lake Ril
Lake Ril
Lake Ril
e Blvd.e BIvd.
ey Blvdrclercle
ey Blvd
Gy Blvd
ey BIvd
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report on this it€m. Vice Chairman Erhartcalled the public hearing to order.
Erhart: Is the applicant hcre?
Bill Engelhardt: Mr. Chairman, members of the planning Commission, I'mBilI Engelhardt. I'm reprcsenting John KIing€Ihutz tonight on a projecthe's proposed.
Erhart: Bill, can you hang on just one minute. Steve, Hhat's your
quest i on?
Emmings: I guess I've got a problem looking at a neE plan tonight. Unlessyou tell me tha! everything clse in the staff rcport stays cxactly the sameexcept for 1 or 2 items.
Olsen: I think r.rhat they're just showing you is that they've adjusted theIot Iines to meet those requirements.
Emmings: l.lhen we do a motion here, are uc aoing to do it based on thisplan? So ure'Il do it on the old plan?
Olsen: Correct.
Emmings: And then you'll shor the City Counci] that hc's figured out a wayto do it?
OIsen: Right.
Emmings: Fine. It's with thc Earnc conditions of approval .
Eill Engelhardt: I think it should be pointcd out right up front, theconditions, the 15 conditions that the planning staff's put togcther andthe engineering staff, uo havc .bsolutcly no problcm rith those. Uhatwe're talking ebout is not adJusting lots hudrcds of fcet or enything likethat. The problcm came up in thls particular arca. Uhcn rc laid this outand you calculatc lt out, it com.s out to 89.58 fcct. It didn.t mcet thc90 feeL so ue had 3 lots thet scrc 89.58 f.ct uidc .nd x. hrd to adJust theIots down so uhen ue'rc talklng about lot adjuBtncnts, rc'rc talking abouttenths of a foot in some casos. l.le havc thc sanc numbcr of lots. Thcy aII
15oftrgt
oadright-of-Hay uidths for Lyman Blvd. being 12O fceL. 60 f.ct on cach side
Planning Commission l'leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 14
of the right-of-way. tJe have 33 feet on our property Hhich moant we had to-
dedicaLe another 27 feeL which caused a problem for these lots so ue've
taken care of that. l.le're going to dedicate t-he 27 feet along Lyman Blvd..It also caIIed out wider right-of-say on Lake Riley Road. tle're dedicating-
Lhe 27 feet on east side of Lake Rilay Road and that gras aft€r the fact.After everyLhing had been submitted uhich m€ant thet re use Lot 5 and thatwill be an outlot and then that will bc an unbuildable lot. It doesn't
neet the squaro footage roquir€ments lnd do€sn't mcct the uidth... Doun
on Lyman Blvd. where we had to make the adjustmcnt hcre. ue're still able
to maintain two Iots r{hich... The lot areas again are ray over the 15,Ooo.
In fact in meeting with the staff it uas discussed that maybe Lot l could
be bigger and Lot'2...instead of havlng en outlot. tlhatever the Planning
Commission and the staff r.rould like is fine with us. The Park Commission
met and their discussion centered around taking Lots 21 thru 25. It's a -straight line park. l.le have now done that uhich meant that we had to
adjust again the lot lines on 20 and 19 in order to conform uith thepark...so ure met the park need requircmcnts and again re still met the
minimum lot sizes. tle're over lot slzes on 20 and 19. One of the
requirements was to shou easements and typically those easements are shown
on the final pl.at. There's a graphic I wanted to use in talking about, all
of these easements r^rill be granted on the final plat. The green ones arefor sanitary sewer. The yellow onss, cxcuse me arc for sanitary seu,er.
Green is for storm sehrer. The orange ones you see are for access into the
ponding area so the cicy has access to them if thcy have to do any
maintenance. And the blue area shors xhere the ponding areas or the
sedimentation areas are going to be and those cascmcnts havc been Plattedthrough the r.retlands so that you'll have conservation aII the way up to the
we!lands in those particular properties. tle're not touching thc wetlands.
l.,e're not goin9 into the b,etlands. l.le'rc not going into the frinEe
vegetation or *hatever. tle're staying right on the outside.
t,ildermuth: on the previous map, grhat land is dedicated for park? The
gr ee n?
BiIl Engelhardt: It's Lots 21 ,22,23,24, 25 end 26. trhat they wanted,
uJhat the Park commission uanted was e streight linc across here or a squarein there and so uhat ue did is lre cut 21 in half and then re divied the
land up, balanced the land between 19 and 20 so ag.in, that Eas the
adjustment we're talking about. This is an cxhibit of the trcc cover onthe property. tJhat you sGe in yellor.r to the .roas that are going to be
removed due to the grading. l.lc'vG gonc out and catalogued all the trees.
There are some areas that are not going to bc disturbcd. This arca inparticular is not going to be disturbcd. Thc major arca of disruption forthe trees is doun around this cul-dc-sac area. tlh.t xc've don. to
catalogue those, we have 2O clm trcos in this grovc, 126 box clder, 42 ash
and 42 oak. Then doun ln thls lrce Hc havc 22.1m, 126 box cldcr and 40esh. l.le r.lill be losing a 29 inch oak tr.e up in thig erca but thc other
oaks will be preserved, 4 of them. l.l6'rc aoing to bc losing box clder and
a 4 inch oak in this arca,4 inch ccdar and 2 box cldcrs up in the roadwayarea. This little run of trces in hcrc uill be disturbed...5 inch appletree, box elder, ash, 12 inch clm, box cldcr, box clder and ! 16 inch ash.
So what u,e're proposing to do, ue havc a total of 126 xhat rc'II caIIsignificant trees and not mGaning thc box clder arc no more significant butof the oak and the ash and the ccdar and the applc, 126 trocs thrt aregoing to. be rcmoved and l,!r. Klingelhutz has agrcrd that he will Plant 3
PIanning Commission f.leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 15
Emmings: And those t.lon't be box clders?
Bill Engelhardt: Actually the proj€ct needs some trees. This area has notree cover and it benefits the devclopcr to have the trces planted. He hashis oun tree spade and that type of stuff and he can do that so... Another
concern that came up Has the TH 212 right-of-way. This is not an easy
Piece of property to develop. As Jo Ann poinLcd out, w6 have TH 212corridor cutting across the north half. l.le have a large tretland area that
needs Lo be preserved and r.le have to work around and in order to get thegrades, there's a lot of grading on this but actually to minimize thegrading on it, the best layout ue could come up Hith is what you see on thestreet configuration, The concern on the north side ulas how does the
TH 212 corridor tie into the back of these lots. You have to underslandthat this center line is 4OO feet lcross here so from the center Iine tothe edge is over 2OO feet and then you have another oh 1OO feet of Iot
depth so you're probably talking about a good 3OO feet to the highurayright-of-uray. But what happens is in order to show this to you, as you
come through from the east and go Hest, the highway grade is a little abovethe subdivision. Then there's a very deep cut right through the middle andin fect this 15 feet, there's 15 feet differencc of elevation from thecenter line of the highuray to the lot pads straight through the middle ofthe property and then you come out of that cut toh,ards the rrest edse. SO
whaL I've done is drawn 3 cross sections, AA, BB, and CC understanding thaCA is on the eastern edge, B is through the middle and C is through theLrest. Those cross sections look like this. Thc qucstion comes up on
berming and noise abatement for the residential properties. On the Section
AA r^,hich is on the east property line trc have an clevation, proposed
elevation of IH 272 of 904.3 at the right-of-lay linc this a97 so you can
see that the highuay is actually going to be highcr than the property is inthat particular area but then es you move Eest, you gct to about the middleof the property, ere have an elevation of the highway at 9O1 .5 and theelevation at the right-of-r.ray is 915.2 so there's almost 15 feet differencein elevation. The house is goinE to be sitting hcrc and the highr.ray'sgoing to be way down here. As h,e 9o to the h,Gst, xo come into a situation
where you have .n 898 at the ccntcr line of thc hichHay and 9O2 uhich meansthat this property is e little bit higher but not as much !s through themiddle of the cut. tlhat hre propose to do on that is as it affects Lots 11,L2,73, and 14 on the erst end and rc cln very simply bcrm that. l.le haveplenty of material in this particular proj.ct. tlc'll bcrm thet so xe get a
sound barrier for those 3 lots. Thcn rc gct into that dcep cut again andue don't need the sound barrier. Thcn xhcn Ha get into Lots 1,2, and 3 onthis end we're putting a berm in and Hc cln utilizc thc trGe planting, theoperation that E€ have for soma traa plentings and plant trccs on top ofthat too. I'd anticipate that that bcrm ln thocc arcas ulll probably be
about 8 feet high but r.le don't uant to llct it such thaL it's not going to
be a straight up and doun berm. It'c Aoing to havc to bc somcthing thatgives you rolling slopcs that th.se propcrCy ouncrs uill bc able to Horkuith and have a nice back yard too. So thc scrccning of the highway Ithink can be accomplishcd. That ras a concern that Paul and Jo Ann had butuntil they actually saw uhat thosc cross scctions rcrc likc through this
Particular piece of proporty, bcrming is not !s aignificant !s rhat thcy
had I think first imagined. Agein, rrc havc no problcns with the 15
trees on every lot to balance that off. So bre're talkinc about 3 times 73or 2lO.
Planning Commission l.leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 16
conditions. The conditions that are in ).our staff report, they're notsignificant and I hope you undersLand that ue're not bringing forward aplat that's completely reconfigured. It's a matter of adjusting some of
these preliminary lot lines in order to m€et the letter of the law in lhis
case so u,e don't have to come and ask you for a variance and that's not oul-intent urith this particular plat. tl6're not asking for any variances onit. l.,e agree to all th€ conditions that the staff has recommended andtre're more than willing to r{ork with them and hopefully ue'll have a good -development for the City of Chanhassen.
Erhart: Thanks BilI. tlould you just rcmain up her6. ]{aybe if you'din the front and save some time. Okay, ue'll opcn this up to publicat this time. If you'd come on up. Ray?
si t
i nput -
Erhart: Excuse me. The location of that is on Lakc Riley. Can you pointit out there?
Ray Le!.ris: Right here, This shows the area around the development. Firstof all I'd like to say that in general I'm in favor of the subdivision.I do have some concerns about some of the effects on the surrounding areathet... I live approximately one block south of Lyman Blvd. on Lake RileyBIvd.. The concerns I have, first of all the first one is traffic. Thetraffic from the additional 76 oy I guess 75 units is going to addsignificantly to the traffic that's already carricd by Lyman Blvd. and LakeRiley Blvd. and r.rhat I mean by this. Currently Lake Riley HiIIs is rishthere. The Lake View Hills, excuse me. Those of us that live on the south -part of Lake Riley 8lvd. south of Lyman Alvd., thc deadend down here forthe Sunnyslope people, are forced to go up and use onc of two choices for
egress in this ar.a. Either ue can use Lyman BIvd. and go to the west or
we can go around Lake Riley and then go the p€rimeter. Right hcre is the
approximate location of the entrance to .Lake Riley HiIls, this half section
and Lyman Blvd. in this area up hcre, is actually an undcveloped road that -has, it's narrow. It has a lot of undulations, patchcs, bumps. f!'s not Every weII developed road and also Lakc Riley Blvd. as it gocs around thenorth part of the lake is also undcvcloped. So I havc a very big concernabout the additional traffic floh, thrt this is goirE to bc putting on thes-
undeveloped roads. The sccond thing ls, and it's 8omcwh.t rol.ted, is theintersection of TH 1O1 and L),tDan BIvd.. ff any of you rr. famili.r uiththat intersection or arare of it, it'g a very dangcrous intersection. It's-a very sharp turn hcrc, Thcrc's vcry often crops that hide the vi6x andue're just...use that intersection arc uaiting for a ccrious accidcnt to
happen there. tlhat the subdivision is going to do ls place an additionaltraffic Ioad on tha! already dangcrous lntcrsoctlon. Thc thlrd thing isthe storm water runoff. Nor.l I rcad through tha strff rcport and I noticedthat a provision is made for holding ponds but thc thlnc that concerns meis that there isn't, as the subdiviaion is very closc to the rctlands lrea -and I lrant to make aurc that thc ponds are propcrly dcsigned so that nouater runoff is allowcd to go into clthcr thc wctlands rrca or into LakeRiley itself. And I guess the last thing I'd likc to bring up isrecreational load on Lake Rilcy. Currcntly thcrc'e alr.ady somesubdivisions that havc outlot lakc acccss. Lakc Rllcy is kind of unique ir,the area because it is cach year rccciving considcrebly additional
Ray Leuis: My name is Ray Lewis. I live at 9O7L Lake Riley Blvd. and I
have some.
PIanning Commission Meeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 77
recreational Ioad from the-..and from further development around the area.It's not a very bis lake as far as recreational Iakes 9o. It's only 290acres and I'm very concerned that additional, significant additionalrecreational load is going to decrease the guality of use for those t,lhoaccess i! both from the lakeshore ogrners and from the landing. So thefollouing recommendations. Lyman Blvd. upErade plan and schedule should becompleled and approved with aIl assessments beinE fully disclosed prior tothe development of this property. And I think since the main reason forupgrading Lyman BIvd. trill be the development. I think the devclopmentitself should bear a substantial part of the cost. flhatever cost is beingassessed. The second thing, I think thcre should be a plan that'sscheduled for the improvemen! of the TH 1o1lLyman BIvd. intersection. Ithink that's essential regardless of whether the dcvelopment Eoes in. It,sgoing to become even more critical if the Lake Rilcy Hills goes in. Thethird item is that r think the concept of holding ponds is a viable conceptbut- r feel that the details that need to bc carefully r.ror ked out along Hithcivil engineering calculations and should be submittcd prior to approval .That includes calculations on flow, pond crpacity and runoff. Then lastlyr rhink that it's important that there should be no special lrke accesspriviledges, that is priviredges beyond those that are afforded to normalnon-Iakeshore residents of the city on an outlot basis to the subdivision.I know that in talking with Jo Ann I k nosl that that comes on under aseparate permit but I feel that it should be coveted in this approval ofthe subdivision that there be no special ...
Erhart: Is that it Ray?
Ray Lewis: Yeah .
Erhart: Okay . l.lould you leave that f irst one up on the scrsen then? Theissues and I'd ask, PauI could you maybe address those quickly?
Krauss: tlell actually, Ray could you putr.,ith it a I ittle bit better that Hay.
your suggestions and we can deal
Erhart: Appreciate your bringing that in in that forhet Ray.
Krauss: As to the qu.stion of Lyman Blvd. upErading, clearly there's aproblem on Lyman Blvd.. t,e rccognize it. Thc County rccognizcs it andit's being dealt rith in the caslern Carvcr County Trrnsportation Studyuhich as a result we're taking eubstantial right-of-ray from this project.This project is not the probl.cm or the colc problcm or the majority of theproblem on Lyman Blvd.. The problem on Lynen Blvd. is that traffic is
Passing east/Hest through Eden Pralric rnd Chanhaason and thoec volumes areexpected to grow particular xhcn thc DclI Road intcrchangc opcna up on TH212. This project ls giving up a gubstantlal valuc ln tcrms of lots thatthey r.rill not be ablc to utillzc in giving or ltr th. City's taking of theright-of-way. At some point ln the futurc there may ncll be en area wide
assessment to accommodate improvcm€nts to this road. l.le're not certain hourthat project's going to be donc. llc'rc in thc proccss of devcloping ac8pital improvements plan to try to program improvcmcnta to Lymln but you
have to coordinate Hith trdo countics and tuo citi.s to do that. l.le xan! toexpedite that as much as possible and clcarly this projcct is part of theproblem but it is ccrtainly not the solc problem.
Planning Commission l'leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 18
Erhart: !.lait a mi nute here. DeII Road's Eoing
Lake Blvd. at some point or uhy is DeII Road an
to intersect uith Riley
issue?
Erhart: Okay, but I mean uithout 9oin9 douln to Pioneer Trail?
Krauss: Risht. The plan is scheduled for TH 1o1 . Again, that's a fairlv
far removed from this project. It is a significant Problem
Ray Lewis: Excuse me. Could I just answer number one? In talking wilh J<
Ann, I did understand that there was what I would caII an indefined
schedule plan to do that. )4y Point here is that uhat we're going to be
doing with the development is tre're going to be adding 76 oY 75 units wortt
of people turning right and left onto Lake Riley Blvd. in a verv shortperiod of time without a definite schedule of when the road's going to be -upgraded and I feel that the tro should be tied together
Krauss: Right .
Erhart: t,,het do cnvision Hherc thesc tould gct favorcd treatmcnt over anv
other resident Ray?
Ray Lewis: tlell for examPle ln the casc of Sunny SIoPe there ..les a outlot -
purchased on the shore and thc rosidents. ..uere Promlsad lake access and
there's been a long term running disPutc as to hrhat that lake access should
be. In other uords, they havc privilcdEcs that other city rcsidents do not-
have in terms of Iake access through that lot-
Erhart: Yeah, we'rc rcal famillar slith thrt.
Krauss: [.,e1] if you continue east through Eden Prairie ultimatelv,
I believe you'll be able to aPproach DeIl. Road which uiII have a new, DelI -
Road wiII have an interchange on fH 212.
Erhart: Say Ray, what I'd Iike to do here is give PauI the floor and let
him. if you r.lould just take a seat for a second and let him resPond to all-
the issues at once and then if we need to go, if you need to sPeak some
rnore, Ne'Il go after that then.
Krauss: As far as the TH 1o1lLyman Blvd. intersecLion goes, that entire
intersection's going to be rebuilt with \H 212. Plans call for that
construction to begin in 1993 so that's a Program imProving that entire
intersection will be coming out. TH 1O1 will be realigned and it should
remove the problems in that area. Details of thc storm uater collection
system. t^,e do have calculations. Their cngineers Prcpared it. Our
engineer will be reviewing it. The storm Eater systcm there calls for
storm water to be discharged into sedimentation basins which rould then
overflow into the uetlands uhich nilI thcn overflow into Lake Rilev so
there's kind of a 3level system to Protect Lake Riley water qualitv in
there and that's all in the project as ProPosed rnd as reviesed in the
planning report. As to lake acccss, thcre is no lake access being Propose<,
from this development. I'd be concerncd that thesc rcsidonts bc afforded -the same rights to pursue lakc acccss as anybody clse rrould as allowed by -
the ordinance but they are not proposing any outlots as lakc access.
Ray Leu,is: At this time?
Planning Commission tle€ t i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 19
Ernmings: Oo they have lakeshore here on this property?
Olsen: Risht.
Emmings: How much do they have? That outlot?
Olsenr The width on thrt?
Emmings: How much of it is lakeshore?
Krauss: That's something that we need to have clarified. r tras calking tothe engineer about that tonight. ft appears rs though the lot located tothe east of this site intervenes along the lakeshore but it's a meanderline so it's kind of tough to say. To actually find out what we need forthat southeast corner of that lot to be staked. If it,s in from the lake,then it has no frontage.
Emmings: And it's not clear from looking at the survey. you should knowtoo, to set your mind at ease somewhet, the beachlot ordinance ue have now
i..rhich wasn't there I thi nk at the time of that little ]ot was set aside
down there on Lake Riley that's been such a thorn in everybody's side, ismuch more restrictive. They have to have a minimum of 2OO feet oflakeshore. They have to have minimum depths and then they can only heveor,e doc k r^ri th 3 boats . so u,e 've got a much more restr ictive ordi nance nourthan has ever been there before.
Erhart: Okay. Is there
subdivision?
any other public comments on the proposed
Dennis Baker: l'lv name is Dennis Baker and r ]ive at 9219 Lake Ritey Blvd.which is a couple hundred yards from the intersection in question at Lymanand Lake Riley BIvd.. I've lived there for 11 years and through thatentire 11 vears r have been taking segidisk readings for the pcA measuringthe water quality of Lake Riley. I'vc uorked with the U.S. GeologicalSurvey, f.,letropolitan CounciI, the Associatsion. A number of groups studyingthe water quality. The uater quality of Lake Riley has improved almostvery, very little over thc cours€ of 11 years in spite of the frct that 11years ago the sewer project was complctcd around the lake and ueanticipated a Iot morc improvemen! then t{c aot. Onc rGason for that lackof improvement is the U.S. Gcological Survey dctcrmincd that theeutrophication of Lake Rilcy xas 95* causcd by runoff. I contond that aholding pond durinE a hcavy rain that r.rill hold the cxccss lrator foruhatever, even if it's 24-48 hours, is not 9oin9 to absorb or have enoughvegetation to absorb thc additional phospherous, ctc. from lar.ln fertilizersthat uill come off of 75 15,OOO foot lots so I crould like to propose to theCity Council that they lsk the Dcprrtmcnt of N.tural RGsourcca toinvestigaLe what the environmental lmpact is of this proj€ct because thatparticular holdins pond is one of only 3 on the lake and I think it canpretty easily be proven that there's prccious fcw uctlands protccting LakeRiley nou. I think that a further study needs to be done in order todetermine, the engineer of the projcct had I don't think is sufficient todetermine the environmental impact of this 75 unit aubdivision. Anothercomment I'd like to make is the intersectlon of TH 1O1 and Lynan BIvd. isan extraordinary concern. There's a lot of accidents there already. A lot
Planning Commission l'leet i ng
October 3, 1990 - P89e 20
Erhartr Thanks Dennis. PauI. would you resPond to that first issue there?
Erhart: currently you're adding hou many holding ponds?
of single car accidents. There's been many cars that didn't make that
curve and fortunately did not collide uith another car. Right now it's
extremely dangerous because of farm crops which haPPen to be Klingel.hutz'
farm crops. Expressing their concern for the safcty of the intersection or-
that intersection. The City hasn't done anything about it and I knoul
people have called the City about the danger on that intersection. I mean
you have to go, my e,ife just is scared €vorytime she comes through that
intersection because you have to actually lcc€lerate to come from TH 1o1
going south onlo Lyman Blvd. and hope that there's not e car sPeeding
comins inio that intersection from the south because if there is, vou'regoing to get nailed and the only uay you get through it safelv is to
accelerate up chat hiII and onto Lyman Blvd. I don't think that, we talk
about this particular issue and the Prcvious issue, what xe're going to do
ultimalely relative to traffic on these projects. I knor.l Chanhasseir is
eager to develop and I'm as eager as €verybody else in here to see
chanhassen grow but we've got to be careful that t.le don'L outgroul our
britches to the point where ue make the community dangerous for it's
residents. Thank you.
Krauss: t^,ell the water quality one is ons Lhat r.re've become increasinglv
auare of over the last year or tuJo. Lake Riley has a series of Problems
that aren't stemming exactly from the lake itself but as Haler is flushed -i nto the lake. One of the Problems that the l'letro Council Hydrologist 'oick osgood has identified is that storm ualer as it Passes through Rice
Marsh Lake is picking up sediments on the bottom of that lake that were
deposited u,hen there used to be a sewage treatment Plant there and
I be.Iieve a chicken farm or something like that and everytime it rains,
that's flushed into Lake Riley with some pratty disasterous results. tlater
quality is a sensitive issue throughout the city and the City Council has -
been working Eith staff and the City Council reccntl),/ adoPled a surface
r^rater utility program which is designed to deal uith uater Cuality issues
in the city. To allour us to do Planning to understand whaL exactlv the
problems are and to actually address solutions with capital imProvements ol
treatment or weed harvesting and street sweePing and cverything else. And
!.Je are also participating with a number of other governments on Haterquality issues. I've been asked to scrvc on a tcchnical advisory committe(-
for the l,tetro Council that is trying to work xith local govcrnmonts to
establish neul regulations for runoff- That docsn't epccifically deal with
this particular subdivision. Holrsvcr, this Plrticular euMivision is usin!-
the bes! availblc technology that xe havc at this timo. Thc xator .is beins
flushed into sedimentation basins. That's dcsigncd to crPturc the heavier
materials. It does not do e vcry cffcctivc Job on caPturing nutrients
The u,ater u,i I L then pass through the retland. l.lctl.ands do havs an abi I itv
to filter nutrienLs to ! largc cxtcnt. Thcn it ulll Pass out through into
the lake. Possibly that is not cnough but thlt is thc bcst tcchnolosv that
ure have to offer at this time. The rcason why ne'rc going through the
surface brater utility district and partlciPating with the othcr government!
as urell is that He t.lant to address this to a bettcr cxtcnt. tlc b,ant to
address it comprehensively, not just for Lakc Rilcy but for all the other
urater bodies in the city as rcll.
Planning Commission l.leet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 21
Erhart: And uJhat percentage of the water currently goes into the currentpond off the site uould you estimate?
Folch: The predicted increese that necded to be retained back bras 1.7Sacre feet of storage. r should have the carcurations here on the existing.
Erhart: I guess uhat I'm trying to get a feel for, are we taking theholding pond, is the holding pond is 9oin9 to kcep the emount of directflow into that existing wetland the samc as what it is currently?
BiIl Englehardt: Yes. Yes it uiII. But the big diffcrence is that beforeit goes into the uetland and before it goes into Lake Riley, you're goingto be polishing it almost like a treatm6nt pond before it gets to LakeRiley, I just u,ant to point out that b,e're scnsitive to the issue of theloading on Lake Riley and that,s why we did put the holding ponds in therebut your best cleaning agent for the water going into Lake Riley is youruretlands. Your uet'lands pick up most of the phospherous and most of thenutrients. The onlv thing they don't gct is nitrates and it's very seldomthat the wetlands themselves, the vegetation uill pull the nitrates out sothose xi]I pass through but r think r.lhat you have to remember in thispartlcular subdivision is ue're converting farmland noLr that is probablymore heavily concentrated r.lith nitrates due to farming than a residentialsubdivision would. Albeit you'16 9oin9 to have grass in there and they,regoing to be fertilizins their lawns but r think it can be shown by studiesthat the heaviest loadings that you have is from the farm operalion itself.so I think that if you really ulanted to get down and look at the loading inthis particular thing, vou're probably going to see less nitrete roadingwhich is the most detrimental to Lake Riley than what you're going to sieui th the subdivision .
Dennis Baker: Can you
c r oPs?
tell what percentage of that land is currently in
BilI EngeLhardt: I don't know. John, crn you?
John Klingelhutz: I Lhink about 6Ot.
Bill Engelhardt: Okay, about 6Ot of it. So I think oc'rc helpins, we'regoing to help the situation. I rcally don't think we,rc Aoing to hurt itand He are channeling our Btorm rrater runoff into the ponds prior toentering wetlands. Prior to antcring Lakc Rllcy and as paul said. that'sthe best h,le cen do right now.
Dennis Baker: Is there any other alternative for drainage?
Bill Engelhardt: Not really.the r.ray iL is. You have your
aII coming down to it.
On this particular piecc of propcrty just
rlctlands with evcrything coming, the slopes
Dennis Baker: It's a basin.
BiI I Enselhardt: Right. It's a
mai ntaining easemonts aII around
big basin and nc'rc prsserving andthat so those wetlands eren't going to be
Krauss: There's two.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
october 3, 1990 - Page 22
touched.
today .
They're going to stay there in their condition the uav thev ere
Eyhart: Thanks Bill. Any other comments?
Dave Nickolay: I'ty name is DaveI'm curious why ue rere invited
development is all to the south
Olsen: High densitytheir pIan. lt's noi
olsen: Oh . no . It r.las tabled at
had on the single family lots but
throughout this application.
y. I live at 85Oo Tigua Circle.
mseting urhen it aPPears that the
ncw Hr.,y . 212 r ight-of -uay .
Nickolato theof the
Krauss: All property oh,ners within 5oo fGet of the ProPerty boundarv are -notified. The property boundar)r goes uP to Tigua. ft's going to be outlot-
correct. Nothing's being ProPoeed uP there but you're on the notification
Iist because you're within that 5oo foot clrcle.
Dave Nickolay: okay, and I guess then my concern would be originallv on
the map that uas sent, which was a very rough, it showed the ProPerty as
I think L.,as just shown here a little bit ago bv the first gentleman, h,hat
is the plan for the land urhich would be north then of the Proposed lH 2L2?
oLsen: There are no plans at this time. They arc showing it as R-12
zoning but that would require a rczoning and a lot of other public hearings-
but at this time it's an outlot. Thev'd have to go through a xhole other
Pr ocess .
Erhart: And R-12 is uhat Jo Ann?
apartments. Again, that's just r.rhat they shoued on
even on the official application.
Dave Nickolay: tles it in the original because this was a delaved process
because I think it was up about a month or so ago and almost all the
residents from Tigua uere here A! that meeting and uas that a change in Che
Plan?
that timeno, there
because
has not
of the issues
bccn anything
that u,e
pr oposed
Dave Nickolay: Is the land owncd bv thc same
l€nd to the north?
Olsen: It's alI
Dave Ni c kol ay:north of that?
John Klingelhutz: At thiE tinc, no.
Oave Nickolay: That's aIl I have. Thanks.
Erhart3 okay, thenk you. Another Person hcrc?
pcople rho are dcveloping the
one piecc.
okay. Arc thcrc plans to do toncthing with thc land to thq
oon Sitter: Hy name is Don Sitt.r. f live at tho cnd of Lakc Riley Blvd.
and I'm going to prctty much echo the same conccrn8 ue'vc heard before but
ask a few more qucstions. Regarding thc holding Ponds, lf those are
PIanning Commission Heet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 23
capable of handling the runoff now, are there plans or ordinances or anykind of maintenance items that would take care of making sure that theystay in effect or that they are effective both today and 50 or however, 1ooyears from now so we make sure that the water quality of Lake Riley ismaintained? I appreciate that they're at least concerned about the water
qua I ity . I r.rant to make sure it stays that ray forever and I guess I 'l Ifinish my other comments and maybe you can get some rcaction. t,lith regardsto the Lyman BIvd. situation. I hear that we're admitting that it's
already a problem and the traffic is already too much for that road and the
StaLe and ure're going to furLher compound the problem and yet there's noplans in place to rectify the problem. That really bothers me. I don't
kno'"r why Lre can't stop sometrhere along the line and say before we add moreproblems to an already existing problem, that $re caD take care of it. I
agree uith the concerns about TH 1O1 and Lyman but at least you've got a
dale. 1993 there wiII be some resolution. That's a plan. That's some
action being taken. f can live wiLh that. l.laybe He can do something
lemporary until 1993 comes along but are there any plans for Lyman Blvd.right now? That's a pretty bad siLuation. And the other thing, on the
lakeshore access. I'm very much afraid that they're going to end up with
some type of a beachlot or an outlot on ther6 and have 75 homes being
accessed to the lake and I understand there's ordinances in place but Ialso remember a little while ago when Lake Riley tloods uas being developed
and the ordinances uere jusL changed because they didn't meet that
developmert. They required the houses to be so close to the beachlot
itself and they said, weII these houses aren't close enough so let's just
change the ordinance and I've seen those ordinances changed through theyears and I think you spend a ]ot of time making the ordinances and if you
stick by them, I think ue could handle the situation. I'm afraid that
there's going !o be pressure on this one when that actually comes up and
ordinances may be changed and Lhen they're going to have another 75 homes
with access to Lake Riley and the lake just can't handle anymore. l.,e're
already in trouble as it is. Other than that, I understand the City's
growing and we have to have developments and I guess all and all I don't
think i s a bad development. I think there are some rcal concerns to make
sure that the lake is protected but are ue really looking at it for the
Ions run. Thank you.
Erhart! Thanks Don. I'II respond again. As Paul indicated,
council here just passed an ordlnancc to create a utility for
holding ponds and h,etlands and use for storm water control .
that City
maintaining
Don Sitler: And that includes moncy for naintaining on an ongoing basis?
Erhart: Risht. Number two, f think the Lyman BIvd. thing is going to be a
big issue and I'm sure the commissloners uill address that hcr€ in the
questioning. Three, I guess ma)zbe I can EPeak for thc current Planning
commissioners. I don't think rc're, I doubt acriously uhcther ue're going
to relax any time soon the reguircmente for beachlots. As Steve Pointed
out. it's precty severe and this one wouldn't qualify as it is nou.
Ellson: They don't have the 2OO fcet.
Erhart: According to what I see here,you have any additional thing to tell?therc is no shoreline. Jo Ann, do
Planning Commission Heeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 24
olsenr tJe got some half sections that show that it does have shoreline anc
then the survey here doesn't really actually shotl t{here the ordinary hish'*at.:r mark of Lake Riley is so there'd have to be, but even if it does, itdoesn't mee! the square footage. It doesn't have the Iot depth and it
r.roul.d require a ]ot of variances hrhich I don't think that we would begranting,
Don Sitter: ...variances is a piece of ca ke
aII.
in Chanhassen.
Erhart: I don't think that's tru6 atthe beachlot. Go ahead, Come on up.
Okay, we can deal again with
Norm Grantr I'm Norm Grant. I Iive aL 9OZL Lake Riley BIvd. and I'm just astone's throw from the project, Tr.ro ideas really. One is Lyman Blvd. as -f understand it and like you say, it's going to be a big problem. Land has
been dedicated for the uidening of that, if I'm understanding all of thisricht.. but that's something that's down the road. A tenlative or ap;e.l inrinary solution, something we could do right now, I was talking withPar'l earlier, was turn Ianes. Something like that tha! would just makethat. a little bit safer area. If you've driven Lyman Blvd. you knoH thatit's bad shape. ft's hilly. It's in rough shape and I think turn Ianescorrld be a solution at least, a temporary one for when ultimately there,s
enough development there that almost demands that something be done. Okay?
A.,d b)' the way, I think that'd it be wise that that be part of the
de'..relopment plan or the platting of the proposal or houever you describethat. Another idea I guess is the outlot. I sense that there's somethingcoins qn there that in the future could be trouble for Lake Riley.
L1han I fjrst saw that it appeared that it was a lot and probably abuildable one at that although r.rith variances. No.{ because of dedicationof lands for the widening of Lake Riley Blvd., it appears that that'sdestined to be some kind of an outlot and I guess I feel that in a couple -yea:'s when there's 75 families there demanding that they have lake access,their wishes probably wiII be met one way or another. If I sau, thedrawings accurately earlier, the widening r.l6s done on both sides of LakeRiler Elvd.. 27 feel. I think into thaL outlot, Uha! if Lhe uhole distance
r^Jas taken from the other side of the road? Okay, Ieaving that lotbasically intact and then potentially buildable. In my mind's eye, I'drather see a single family home therc. Okay? Somebody living there rather-than having 75 potenLial families utilizing that property. Ideas I guess.
Erhart: okay, thanks Norm. Jo Ann, is therc any comments on the TH 1o1intersect ion turn lane idea?
Olsen: That's something that could bc part of thisjust discusslng it. That actually is a good idea.
development and we were-
Turn lanes on Lyman.
Krauss: On Lyman and leaving tha site.
Erhart: AL the i ntersect ion?
Olsenr Of the development.
Erhart: Norm, that's what you r.,6re talking about is turn lancs at theentrance?
Planning Commission Heeting
october 3, 1990 - Page 25
l.Jorm Grant: Yeah,
Erhart: Okay. Any other public comment?
Emmings noved, Ahrens seconded to close thc nrblic hearing- AII voted infavor and the motion carricd. Thc public hcari ng res closcd-
Erhart: Okay. Iet's talk thisto start doun on your end?
one around a little bit. Joan, do you urant
Al',rens: Back to the Lyman,/TH 1O1 intersection. It seems to me, f drivethat by there all the time and you can't see around the corn. That,s thebiggest problem and John Klingelhutz ourns the corner Iots on there?
Clsen: It mi.ght be another KIingelhutz.
Ahrens: oh, someone said that earlier.lot owners to cut doun the corn on those
Lanes based on public safety?
Can't the City somehow require theintersections to improve sight
Kr-auss: lJe may be able to declare it a public nuisance. That ordinance isnot very tight but ue could look at that.
Al!-ens: It wouldn't cost the Citytl-e. temporarily solve the problem
is complet,ed.
I uouldn't think to solve
when the intersection there
much mofteyuntil 1993
Erhart: Excuse me a second. I guess.I'd like to point out, I don't thinkthere's, Iet's clarify that Jo Ann or Paul. tlhen do you realistically seet.his TH 1O1 intersecLion being put in, or even start construction?
Krauss: ueII it's going to be tied to the realignment of TH 1O1 which istied to Hwv. 212. The State has committed funds to start construction
of IH 212 in 1993. They're not specific on -when Lhat gets it out here.
I!'s probably going to be in 7994 by the time the work comes out this far.tle've been trying, the City's been trying to expedite that project foryears and at least there's finally funding for it.
Erhartr I just didn't Hant to lcave thc imprcssion uith anybody that 1993
wor k was going to begin at improving those intersection. Go ahead Joan.
Ahrens: l',laybe cuLting Lhe corn down is ! morc viabl€ solution. As far as
the holding ponds go, I'm going to have to go along brith the City
recommendation on that. ...that the holding Ponds that are ProPosed... In
going through the report, thcre's a hention of sidcwalks here along the
north road and uest road. I knou the City has had Problems before in other
developments. Curry Faros for one, stating that therc may be aidewalks
lhere but not puteing it onlo the plat so the rGsidents after the fact sav
xe don't b,ant sideuralks there. l.te didn't know about it.
OLsen: Risht. I believe uhat He do nor is that's Partof the street. The sidewalks are installcd so uhenever
Iot, it's there.
of the construction
anyone Purchases a
'Planning Commission Meeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 26
E:h6r-t: I think. to expand
whether the existing sewerstation and force feed has
j mpression I get .
on that. I think there is an issue here with
has the capacity, whether the existing pump
the capacity service area. That's the
Ahr-ens:
road?
And install. . .and they uiII be put in for the north road and west
Olsen: Yes.
Ahrens: I had a question about the utilities. There seemed to be a
ouestion about Lhe calculations for the sanitary sewer system to verify
site capacity and maybe... no idea Hhat's going on with that. A plan right
now because of. . .
Folch: Maybe I could just, I'lI briefly address that. That's just a
nornral requirement that ble have as one of the items h,e $rant to see for
submittal at the time of final approval of construction plan documents. I
was not a requirement aE this time but ue like to make the applicant a..rare
that it is needed for the final stage.
t
Ah.ens: That's the reason I brought it up is because I think..,
B;1I Engelhardt: That was a question that came up. This particular land -is servetJ bv a lift station and we checked the pumping records and the
maiatenance records of Lhat lift station. That Iift station runs 2 hours a
da)' olrt- of 24 which means that there's adequate capacity. It's not runnine
anywhei-e near what it probably could be running to operate at a normalrat.e- As far as the 4 inch force main goes, for this particular type of
development and number of units that go in there. what happens is that your_4 inch force main will see a little bit more velocity in it if anything.
And if your pumps are going Lo generate, if you're generating more flow,your pumps are going to be pumping a little bit more and they mighL pump ata Iittle higher head r.rhich means you're going to see a little bit morevelocity but the flow is still going to get through there. It's a pressurr
situation. It's not a gravity f lour shere it's going to get clogged so it,sgoins to get pushed through there. The bottom Iine is that the liftstetion has capacity for this particular development. It's only running 2hours a day -
Ahrens: Do you agree eJith t'ha!?
BiIl Engelhardt: That came right from the pumping records of the City.
Erhart: okay, thanks BiII. What is the Clty's position?
Folch: tJell I guess we'd have to take a closer look at thet. That may be_an issue that eJould be addressed in the feasibility report th8t is propose(to be conducted for servicing Hatermain and utilities to this subdivision.
Bill Engelhardt: That really doesn't ansuer the qucstion. The feasibil it)-stucly that's being proposed is to provide brater service and l"tr. Klingelhut:has agreed to pay for the feasibility study for the trater service. tlhen ureget into the final design for the utilities in this particular property. -you look at the heads and the design capacity of th6 pumps. If your pumps
Pl anning Commission Heeting
Cctober 3, 1990 - Page 27
if it appears that your pumps are going to have a problem with capacity,il's a very simple matter of increasing the horse pouer or dropping ac:fferent pump to increase the horsepower and we would have to do that aspart of the approval of the final construction plans for Lhe sewer andbrater. tlhat rm telling you is r don't anticipate that because the liftsiation right now is only running 2 hours out of the day, out of 24 hourswhich means that there's plenty of capacity in those pumps and I reallydon't see it as being a probl.em. But if it does become a problem duringthe final design, then ue change the pumps over to a different pump. Theissue then becomes is the force main big enough r.,ith a bigger pump. It'snot that it's big enough. It's just that it's going to 90 through therefaster is alI
Ahrens: f understood they..-be a problem. lty question Has ohether theCity thousht it was a problem.
-olch: tJeIl it's my understandingreauest for the study was strictly
had nrentioned that they also added
i nc Iude sanitary also specifically
from the City Engineer that the initialfor the watermain service but Lhat Garyon the scope of that report h,as torelated to that lift station.
Erha:-t: That's the u,ay I read the report. Uhile ue're on the subject, doan'/ ot-her commissioners have any comments on this particular or concernsabout this sewer issue? I guess if you don't mind Joan, it just seerrs ton'e, whether.it's 2 hours or 4 hours, I don,t know what.s standard. It just
seems to me that the question that I would have, are re trying to tap intoa syst-e.rn that just wasn't designed to essentially a development like thisor 6re we tapping into a system essentially Eas to bandaid a problem we hadou: on Lake Riley with sewers? l.tith septic systems.
Krauss: If I could, that's basically one of the questions the feasibilitystudy is designed to ansulered. That Iine dor.r n Lake Riley uas initiallyirstalled basically to serve the lakeshore homes but there is a lot ofcaoaciLy Ieft in it, ...determine how much capacity there is. This siteis.r.ithin lhe HUSA line today. They are going to be petitioning the cityfor improvements. At that point ue do the feasibility study which is online to be done and the city determines the best way of serving this andot-her properties. The cosL to them develop, the developer then decides ifthe cost benefit is there. You know they can still welk away from aproject at that point. The improv6ments that rould be installed, the water
improvements certainly are going to 6erve a number of othcr properties
beyond the Klingelhutz site. Thos€ properties may b6 subject to some area
assessments or something else rhere they'd be brought into the process butthey're certainly a uide spread benefit that could potcntially be had. But'-hat's a normal process. They petitlon. The feasibility study. The cityCouncil acts on the best r.la)r of scrving it and the developer decides ifthey trant to do the proJcct.
Erhar-t-: Okay, ueII I guess I'd sure Iike to sce that that be looked at ina little more comprehensive manncr than JusL this item for this particular
development. l.le're just trying to tep into somcthing that's alreadyundersized or Hasn't intended for this, that it be looked atcomprehensively because certainly that whole arca around that intersectionis going to require services.
Ahrens: I don't have
Erhart: That's it?
Ahl-ens: Yep .
Erhart: Okay. Jim?
t,i ldermuth: t^lhat is
Krauss: In terms of
tlildermuth; Right.
anything eIse.
Krauss: The draft Land Use PIan shows single family development immediale1:
uiest of the siLe. It blends into I think medium density or commercial at
the TH 7O7/272 i nterchange
planned for the land west of the current develoPment?
the Land Use PIan?
:Jj].dermuth: I was wondering why the park group chose Lots 24, 25, 26
23 and why they uouldn't come down to roughly where Block 1 Iettering
the nap so thst any future development to the uest could benefit?
, 22,is on
rrauss: One of the things this r.rould also be serving is existing andpcte:,tial development to the east. Ultimately that east/r.,est road Iabeled-
north road uould be extended in both directions. There's anolher high
density site adjacent to the existing apartment complex and the thinking is+,hat i^e'd have this road extended over through there Iooping back out to
Lake Riley Blvd. so they would have access to the park as urelL.
Olse:-,: There's also the Bandimere Park to the souLhwest. That's going to
be a larger community park.
i.l i ldermuLh: That's the undeveloped?
Oiserr : Yeah, to the south of Lyman so they were looking at locating thepark more to the east of this subdivision.
tJildermuthr As you look to the east, how much of that uetland extendseast? Does the wetland fade out?
Krauss: No. It does extend to the east. In fact, one of the benefits of-this development i.s that xetland is currcntly bisected by a driveuay that
uras filled. Placed on fill right across the middle of the wetland. As acondition of approval for this projcct, that driveway is going to bepulled out of there end the retland can function as a whole unit again andnot a bisected Hater body.
PIanni ng Commission Meet i ng
october 3, 1990 - Page 28
tJildermuth: That sounds pretty desireablc but if that rretland, a goodporiion of thaL wetland lies to the cast, it's going to be a long hike dowrtc the parklands. I mean I don't know, this doesn't seem too logical tothink that that parkland ls going to serve much to the cast. But thatasjde, moving on. l.lhere are these proposcd turn lanes Jo Ann that you wer(.just referring to a fsu moments ago that you though! uere a good idea?
Planning Commission Heeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 29
Kr6uss: t^lhat we 'dPossibly being ablea turn in this r.ray
tli Idermuth: tlho'd
Krauss: Yes.
probably be looking at is something along those lines.to widened it out on this side as well so you can makeand out thet uay.
stand the €xpense for that? A devcloper?
tlildermuth: Is Lyman Blvd. a county road or a city?
Olsen: At this point it's not a city road. The County jurisdiction endsat TH 1O1 and then it becomes City jurisdiction.
tJildermuth.: Does the City have any plans for upgrading that?
Krar:ss: Not at this Point.
U;ldermtrth: Everybody that spoke from the area has a concern there aboutLvrian BIvd..
K:-auss: The way that road improvements that benefit an area or aneighborhood typically occur is the City CounciI,s petitioned to dofeasibilty study on r.rhat the road upgrading might accomplish. He'd
heppy to receive a petition...City Council to take action on lhat.
6
be
Kra(.rss: Yeah. One of the other issues we deal xith too with Carver Countyand they trith us, is jurisdiction. This road is carrying a substantial
amount of traffic that's generated from not only Chanhassen but around thea]'ea that's just passing through. I!'s projected that it wiII carry morein lhe fuLure and we may wish, and tde've talked lrith Carver County aboutthis, to have the jurisdictional problcms resolved thaC may ultimately
becorre a county road.
trildermuth: Okay, so that would be one uay for the aree rcsidents to
address this Lyman BIvd. issue? Other than that, I Like the proposed
berming for TH 212- That looks like a €pod solution for the highway noisepavement problem and it seems like holdlng ponds on the perimeter of the
wetland are the State of the Art ana&rer for storm Beter rt this point.I don't think there's anything, there isn't anything bctter on the horizonis there?
Krauss: t,el] there's more active progrrms that a city could underteke andthat ue would intend on to take sith the funding provided by the service
t.,eter uti I ity.
Uildermuth: tlhat would that be?
Krauss: l.Jell it's a range of things that uould be considered from
someLhing as simple as making sure the str€€ts are serept frcguenlly,particularly before you have the first flush of organic matcrial in thesprins to the possibility of Beed harvesting. The retland capture throughthe weeds capture the nutricnts but in thc fall the cattails, which absorb
tJildermrrth: So it behooves the residents in the arca now to petition theCouncil?
Planni ng Commission Heet i ng
Oc:ober 3, 1990 - Page 30
some of it but the cattaiLs die off and introduce the nutrients to some
extent back into the system. tleed harvesting is something that's being
done -
tlildermulh: These are largely city respons ibi I i ties then?
Krauss: tlell these erould become city programs and rosponsibilities infuture. That's *hat's envisioned. RiEht now nobody's doing it. Risht
nobody has.
the -
noL,
u,lildermuth: There's nothing here that ue could ]ogically expect from the
developer in eddition to what he's outlined?
Krauss: No . Right .
!,.liLdermuth: Okay, I support the staff recommendation.
Erhart: okay, thanks Jim. Annette?
Ellson: I ]ike the idea of adding the turn lanes. I like the idea of
as<ing the properLy oHner to cut back the corn. I don'L know that bre can
tr-it t,hat into the thing here but as far as solving these short range
p:-oblerns that people have on these streels. The park is dedicated and I'
of-,en wondered this, doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be built isr,hat righ!? It's just set aside at this point?
VE
olsen: Right. And then there's a separate fund.parkland they also have to give money and they'reas the homes are built, that a park is there.
In addition to givi ng
trying to work it so Lhat
E1lscn: That seems to be a concern and a complaint continually from people-
ir nei.; deve).opments. So that's what I was just wondering. There's no ulay
because it's us building it, basically the city, that He can put anything
in here that says it has to be paid in a ycar or Bomething like that?I kno!.r it's a continual problem that the parkland is set aside and then
nobcdy has but that was just for my oon info. I xould 90 along with thestaff 's recommendaeions.
Er hart: Thanks Annette. Steve?
Emminss: Let's aee. Outlot A in Block 3, BiIl nentioned the possibility -of connecting that to one of the other lots. I think that Bhould be doneso that somebody's responsible for tho maintcnance and maybe Che east endof it ought to be joined up to ono lot and the Hcst cnd of it should bejoined up to another but othcrrisc uc've got a picce of ground aittingthere that nobody xill b6 rcsponsiblc for. So I think you'vc got to 9e!rid of that outlot and join it up to other propertles- As far as LymanBIvd. goes, f guess l look at that a little bit the way. e,e have the same -
exact discussion on another scale xith TH 5 all the time. tle shouldn't bebuildins all these houses out h6re bccause TH 5 can't handle the trafficbut it's sort of like cranking a car. You Hind up gcttins the road because-you've got aII the people living out here scrcaming about the fact thatthey don't have decent roads and to some Gxtent I think you're going to
wind up r^,ith your improvements on Lyman BIvd. faster es a result ofp:-ojects like this. I don't think it's good planning but I think that's
trlanning Commission l,leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 31
kind of the u,ay the world works. As far as the beachlot issue isconcerned, I'm confident thaL the Planning Commission as is presentlyconstituted, will never teakened the beachlot but you know, it won't be the
same Planning Commission here in a feu months. l,,laybe uho knows and thatordinance has been changed and changad and changed. The last changes wedid I think were good ones and the fact ls, if th6y meet the requirementsof that ordinance they get the beachlot. l.,e can't stop them from having itif they meet the requirements. tle'v6 got to tr€at everybody the same, butif they don't, they won't get it from us at lc.st as we're presentlycons'.ituted. That should give you at l€ast 5 minutes worth of comfor!.Lake Ri]ey is a recreational development lake is it not?
Olsen: Exactly .
Emmings: And it has a pubLic access?
Clsen: On the Eden Prairie side.
Emnings: I always like to tie together approvals and to do that t,ith this
or-re r urould tie the preliminary plat approval . r'd add a condition to thatit is conditioned upon compliance with all conditions of the t.ret]andalte:ation permit and similarly add a condition to the Hetland alterationpermit, That it's conditioned upon compliance with alI conditions of thepr-eiiminary plat approval so those are Lied together. Is something goingto be recorded against each lot tha! borders the uetland?
El1-<.:n: Yes.
Finmings: Okay, is that in here already?
specif ic condltion but we do do that nor,r. tleClsen: I didn't make it arecord i! against each lot.
5r:mings: That's a development contract and that doesn't record it against
each lo!, Something should be recorded against cvery lot to tell themthere are prohibitions or ue're going to rind up xith another, which one
uJas it?
olsen: Yeah, with the wetland permit, thc permit itself is recorded
against each lot and yeah, we could make that r condition. tlhat happenedin Curry Farms, it didn't 9o to all the adjaccnt lots. l.le do that now.
Emm i ngs :
happe n?
Should it be on here as a condition or Hlll that automatically
olsen: L,e automatical ly
And the reason
do
ir
it but
didn't
you can nakc it !s ! condition.
happen on Curry Farms r{es, lf it'sEmm i ngs :
autom6t ic?
Olsen: t^te]l we've learned our lcsson, l.le rent uith only along the Class Ab,etland. tte didn't 9o along aII thc Class B.
Emminss: So should I be comfortablew:'ite it in as a condition?
that it's going to happen or should I
PIann i ng Comm ission I'leet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 32
olsen: f 've learned my lesson, yes. I think you could be comfortable.
Emnings: Otherr,rise I agree with the conditions in the staff report.
Erhart: Okay. A couple questions
that we are requiring the berming
descr i bed?
clsei:
such asprovide
here. Is it clear in the conditions
along the future Interstate 212 that BiIl
tJe do in condition number I state that noise abatement measures
earth berming shall be shor.rn on the plan. That they do have to
something like that. Again, their plans have been...
Erhart: Okay, do you feel that's strong enough language?
Erhart: Yeah, I Has going to suggest lhaL maybe the way to urord it wouLd -
be t-o some height above freeuay center line at any point. I think Bill
had nentioned I feet. You may Hant to use that kind of uording or
somet.hing to but as long as you're satisfied there, I hron't dig into it an)-lorrgier. tle're saying in the future Lyman Blvd.'s going to be a collector.or is it an arterial?
Folch: I beLieve it's designated or proposed to be a minor arterial Class2 I b,eIieve. Yeah, that's correct.
Erhart: tJeII I think on Audubon Road uhere Lake Susan Hills tlest, 3rd
AdCiticn or lOth Addition or uhatever it is where ue have these housesright- on Audubon Road b,ithout any berming or screening in the back of thoseIots, back to the yards, I think we were, somehou we overlooked something -there because I'm just aghasted at driving down there and seeing the backsof these houses essentially uhich are on a street which is going to be
rra.jor .
Erhart:It isn't there nou.
I remember, if we're talking about thc same place, there nas athat plan.Emmi ngs:
berm on
Olsen:By the Betland I belicve.
Bet$,een the road and the
By the h,etland?
Yeah, well the cxit from
Emm i ngs :houses .
Olsen:
Emm i ngs :that division goos out onto there.
Erhart: t,e talked about this before and I just,
believe that lle approved that the r.ray it's goingthe staff review the permit on th.t subdivision.
Emmings: I feel like I rcmember it r*hen it t.tas
it's hard for me toin and I pould ask thst
Have you seen it?
in here.
Kralss r They wiII have it resolved before final plat.
Srn:irings: tJe put a berm in there.
Planning Commission Heeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 33
Erhart: 8ut anyuay.
Kr-aLJss: You point though is weII taken Hr.probably an analogous situation !rith havingat some point,
Chairman because there's
what may become a 4 lane street
Erhart: You're taking the words right out ofa: Lhat, it only affects two lots now the way
Emmi ngs: Three rsal ly .
Erhart: They're climinating, Lot 3 ls eliminated.
Emmings: Yeah, but then there's...
BiII Engelhardt: It'd be three lots.
my mouth. If you would lookyou're proposing it.
o'. sen: Those are just ther€ .
Brll Engelhardt: I hope not.
grhart: t^Jhat's
OLsen: There's
the control structure?
a culvert.
Erhart: Under TH 1O1?
OLsen: Lyman, Or und6r Lake Riley.
Erhart: Has an)zbody considered raising thcLot sellability standpoint, just increasingthat not only a more aesthetically pleasing
improve it's nesting habitat without reallyif we could take into special consideration,water level and increase the levcl of tha wait. I think it also r.rould improve it's abil
Level in that? From aater a foot would make
nd but it also would
s up additional space or
se at it's existing highn that wetland to improveo filter.
water
the w
wetLatakintout€r iity t
BiII Engelhardt: Mr. Chairman, my expericnce always has been that the DNR
daes not Iook favorably upon changing thoso elevations, either by culvert
or overland swale or uhatever it is. l.ly guess is thet they probably aren't
gor.ng to let you touch that. Thcy set that elevation, in fact that wetland
uas singled out as being purchased at ona time by the ONR and lhoseelevations uere set so I don't think there's anything ute can do about it.
Erhart: Oh, oh okay yeah. The one B]ock 1so three Iots and I think weshould Dut some kind of a barrier between the road. r,,lhat would youoropose? A berm? Screening? Okay. The names of the streets bothers me.Are rle going to leave Lhem that uray?
Erha:t-: Thank you. Loop cuI-de-sac. Have bre considered, what'sconLrolling the elevation of hte uletland currently? What controls the
,.Ja ter IeveI?
3i1l Engelhardt: .The DNR has got a high water mark set on that. We've sotit shown on the plan.
Clsen:
nour and
And itit's a
is a really, I think it does have a pr€tty good depth righthish functioning wetland.
Erhart: I guess that's not my experience Bill. Hy experience is that
'.here is way to improve wetlands, the ONR has been not only willing to
about it but will actually fund some of it.
iftalk
Olsen: I don't knou that this one needs to be improved.there urith the DNR and the Fish and Wildlife Service, ityou knor,r. IL 's f ine the way it is.
Erhart: So you think that's a Haste of
In
was
golng
don 't
out
touc h
we could look into it. I
time
don 't
to pursue
know lhat
that?
it needs that0isen: tleII
i mor ovement .
:r ha:t : Okay , l.Jhy isthe conditions is tha!Lot 5,Lot 5,
B]ock 1Block 1
oris am I reading that wrong?not bui ldable?
One of
Oi-sen: It should be Lot 1, Block 5
:-.,ar-t-: Lot 5, Block l shall be designated as an outlot and unbuildable?
Clsen: Yeah, I've got it.
Erhart: Okay, Lot 1, Block 5. tle are
'.rees over, good trees over 4 inches.our Lihat, clear cutting ordinance? IS-rrdinance that ue're using there?
requiring that the developer replace
Is that an ordinance? Is that inthat the ordinance or what is the
il.sen: I 'm sorry, what?
Erhart: t,e're requiring the builder to replace all trees uith caliper over4 inches. All good trees over caliper of 4 inches.
clsen: The ordinance does aIlow for thc replacement per caliper inch underthe landscaping for trec rcmoval .
E i hart: t,lhich ordinance?
llsen: It's under the landscaping? I bclieve it's in the Zoning Ordinanceunder the landscaping section. Undcr tree rsmoval .
Er hart: In what Section?
clsen: Do you have thc pag€s? It's 1253, prse 1253. Section 1179.
Erhart: In the Zoning or Subdlvision Ordinanie?
Ol-en: Zoning Ordinance. Pag6 1253, Section ZO-:-]-Z9. Tree RemovalRegulations,
Erhart: And does that include, let nre see-
Planning Commission l.,leet i ng
october 3, 1990 - Page 34
olsen: rt says that the city may require replacement of removed trees on acaliper inch p€r calipcr inch basis. At a minimum however, replacementtrees shall conform to the planting rcquirements set in the... That'swhere you have to do extcrior landscaping and such and shade trees of 5inches or more caliper shall bc savcd unless it can be demonstrated thatLhere is no other feasible uay.
Erhart: Essentially aren't r.e talking about replaced trees where he'sputting in the streets and everything?
Clsen: tlhat ure usually do, wc never go the caliper per caliper inch. Imean you aould get 1,OOO. He was saying if there Has 17O trees beingremoved but the caliper inchcs is you know, so what we usually do is uorkwith Lhe DNR forester and go out to the sita and determine, you knour whatis being lost and how it's best to replacc those. l.re never go caliper perca.Liper inch replacement but it does give us flexibility to provide
something in the future that will replace what's been lost.
Erhart: Okay. t,lould ue consider on this outlot, Block S, Lot 1, would weconsider turning that now unbuildable lot over to th€ City?
Olsen: No, ure haven't considered that. I don't know actually what we
rou Id use it for.
Erhart: For example down on Bluff Creek for example. and that wassubdivided south of the eolf course there, A lot of the, all the area in
t-he bluff land was lurned over to the city for future whatever.
OIsen: For nature and trails.
grhart: Nature and Nhatever. It would seem to me that would give the Citycontrol over this lot. Also it would provide maybe some potential future
again comprehensive use of urhat is a long unuseable, I shouldn't sayunuseable. Now it's unuseable shoreline. It could be something. I meanyou could put a walking path through there or something.
Olsen: It's real, r*ell.
Erhart: !^leII you'd be surprised chat somcbody, at some day when that areaaLl gets developed, you know )rou could just Iike the Lake of the Isles*-hin! where it's just a walking area. Not a bcach but something useable
and at this poinL it becomes an outlot that somebody, John uill be paying
t.axes on it which he probably doesn't Hant to do if it's of no economicvelue to him and thie point might be an appropriat€ time to Iook at simplyturning it over to the city. So any othcr comments ftom the Commissioners
on the idea? No? Ok.y. No positive ideas?
Emmings: I don't think it's a bad idea.
Erhart: You do?
Emmings: I do not think it's a bad idea. I'm sitting here Iooking at thetpiece of prop€rty and thinking he wouldn't have to buy much !o the east end
add a little something to it to have what he necds to put in a beachlot.ihe other thing is, maybc the neighbors who don't want to see that happen
Planni ng Commission t'leetlng
October 3, 1990 - Page 35
Planning Commission l.lcet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 36
ray urant to go together and buy it themselves.
Bill Engelhardt: Yeah Hr. Chairman, that's a
Ue don't wan! to give it to the City. tle'Il
That's what
valuable piece
occurred to me.-
of property.
Ernmings: As long as we're
anvthing &Jith that at this
Ernmings: No, no. I
Lrse it for a nythi ng?
talking about it.
timc?
hang onto it.
is there any plans co do
mean what's the, how does it have value if he can'tI'm just cur ious.
BiII Engelhardt:
!^ri',h it.Not at aII and there is nonc. There's nothing you can do
Emmings: Have you consid€red making it a bcachlot?
BiIl Engelhardt: I don't knoL,.
Bi I i Engelhardt: The
!-a ke Ril.ey.
value is that he wants to own a piece of property on
Don Sitter: tJho maintains that?
Emmings: The or.rner.
Don SitCer: The owner has. . .
Bill Engelhardt: No. tle havcn't. You can't do anything with it but it's -stilI a valuable piece of property. Mr. Klingelhutz Hants to own thatpiece of property. If th€ cily ..rants to buy it at it's market rate, I'msure he would seII it to you but we aren't going to give it to you.
Emmings: tJhat's the value BiIl?
Erhart: Okay. I like the sidewalk plan and f agree with, as much as I just
s]--aied that I don't think we give variances Iiberally, I think this onenakes good sense I support the agreement uith agreeing the variance. n,,
cr,eral..L comment on this plan is that I think what. we're doing here is Lhat -
"re're developing this piece of property a little bit in advance of whereour services ar€ at the time. Not that doesn't eean that everydevelopment, that doesn't mean that developers don't have every right to do-that bue on the other hand, we have some mechanisms that alloHs them tocontribute their share when they do that. f really think that as this gets
moved on to Council, that we oughC to take a look at two lhings here in amore comprehensive manner before this gcts approved. One is the seu,er, and-I really think we ought to look at a plan for lhat whole area. The areasouth of essentially south of Lake Ann Interceptor down to where the end oft,.e trroposed addition to the IIUSA line is tci see Hhat Chat set,er syste:.rculd look like- And I Lhink this developer ought to be made to conlributeto 1'-hat plan at this time. Secondly, I think the City should proceed withthe feasibility study for Lyman BIvd.. I think the one shocking thing on'.his whole development is that we're going to put, not only are u,e going otsput 75 additional households on a streat that simply is not designed to dotiat. Not adequate Lo do Lhat, but ue're going to put essentially for upto 10 years, perhaps even Ionger than 1O years, a cul-de-sac. If you
Planning Commission l.leeti ng
Oc?ober 3, 1990 - Pagc 37
measure it from Lyman Blvd. to thc Gast 6nd of North Road, how long is it?
2,ooo-3,ooo feet?
cLsen: Close to it.
Erhart: 2,OOO feet? I'vc bcen herc 4 years and anythinE over 1,OOO feetis. we'v6 used tha! as e reason to forcc dcvelopers to com€ up urithal.ternative acccss. And I'm not against this plan. I think it's a goodplan. I think Lhcy'r. using the land urisely. I think they've addressedthe runoff issues to the bast, sey to the same level as other devclopers
are doing. I don't think thet H. shouLd, I think now is the time to 9o in
and collect monics to improvc Lyman Blvd.. I realIy think it should betied together because it's not reasonable to put this house on there
on Lyman Blvd. in it's currcnt condition f don't think.
l.lildermuth: But tha adjacent propcrty ciwners petitioned the Council to do:hat, lhen that will be addressed? If they don't petitj.on the Counci I !o
do that, it u.ron't be addressed.
Srhart: The City can proceed withpecition. CorrecC me if I'm wrong.
a rvbody ,
this on theirIt doesn't
oun. It
require a
doesn't require apetition of
lLser: The City can initiate it.
thcg.hart: Yeah, u,e can initiate feasibility study.
Krauss: Yeah, the City can but you knon the City likes to know that a
r,r-.ighborhood honestly hants a road to bc improved before we go to the
exDense of figuring out how it's done.
tii ldermuth: You hav6 all Lhe adjac€nt property owners.
Er"h6rt: But the neighborhood is the developer today.
Ki-auss: I think it would not be unreasonable to ask the develoPer to
commission the City to undertakc that feasibility study in conjunction uith
the neighbors signing onto that but there are many lnstances where ue hearr-hat, and obviously wc agroo that thcre's a road imProvement needed at some
poinE and we do aErec uith that herc but uhen the plans are actually
developed for thc roed improvcment, the neighborhood turns out and says
:hai- we don't Hant this and you knor. It Puts the citv staff in an
uncomfortable position of takinE the lead on a Project that's to benefit
'cr a neighborhood. tlc'd like to knon that at least the neighborhood's
behind us }ooking into thet imProvcmcnt-
Erhart: rhere is no ncighborhood. Th€ doveloPer is the ncighborhood and
he has access to thc funds today.
r:Ldermuth: The neighbors tha! *e've hcard from tonigh!. One of the
things thet we see. thc morc cxPensc Ec tack on to a develoPment like this
for the developer, I think thc Iower qualitsy, the lowcr calibcr development
:.j e get in the cnd. If you look around toun and look at the costs of I'and
and costs of some of thesc develoPments, I think se'rc diluting the
daveloper's efforts by tagging him with a Iot of additional cxPense.
Erhart: Yeah, I understand that
Lyman BIvd. improvement. Eithcr
but some dayyou're going
someon€'s going to pay forto 9o in.
tJildermuth: That's rieht. Th.
Adjacent property o}lncrs.
propcrty own.rs ara going to pay for it.
Erhart: And thc thing is th.t that scrvcs 75 Iots here and if you
go in uithout doing that today, thcn you're n.vcr going to be ablecollect from 75 lots. You'rc aoing to go at.
let this-
to
Emmings: Why not?
Erhart: tlell you could but I'm
EL Ison: That'si.re'lI be...how . . .you have
just saying it's casicr to.
75 morc peoplo who u,ant it and hopeful Iy
bef ore r,las the 75 wi ll ba more clout to get it .
Erhart: Are
EIlson: Your
you?
comme nt
Rav -euis: Houl many people uant it noet?
Bill EnseI hardt:
t here .
At that tlmc thcrc Bcrc no plans for anything around
Erhart: okay, if therc aren't eny mora commcnta, I'II entartain a motion.
Emmings: I'm going to mova tha! thc Planning Commission recommend approval-of Preriminarv Plat f9o-1o for Lrkc Rilcy Hille as shoon on the plans datedSeotember 4, L99O with a variance to permit a 2.lO foot offsct betrleen theintersection of south Road and Lyman Boulcvard wlth the conditions as setforth in the staff r€port changing Lo 15 so that w.'vc Aot Lot 1, Block S.
Planning Commission Meet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Pagc 38
Erhart: l.Jell that's not thc issuc. I'm just trying to get 6ome things in -ihe ittinutes here Ray and we're not going to decide Lhat here. So anyuay,
t-hose are my comments. fs thcre any othcr discussion?
Emmings: Yeah. f have one ot'hcr qu€stion. BIII, I think Iast timedidn't you engineer Timbcrwood? Didn't you prcsent Timberwood to us?
Bill Engelhardt: fimberwood Estatos r y€s.
Emminss: I'm just londering if you'rc aoing to com6 and help us when wehave to face alI thosc folks in thc hcarings on the Comprehensive plan
Bi.l I Engelhardt: As far as sci.rcr goca?
Emmings: No.
E L lson: DeveloPmcnt around it.
Emmings: A whole bunch of oth€r issu.s. I think t'hat, wa3 the last time Isat.t you was on Timbcrrood and it kind of 3carcs mc uhcn I s.c you now forsome reason.
Planning Commission Meeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 39
Acjding 16 which will state that approval is conditioned upon complianceurith alI conditions of the Hetland Alt€ration permit. Adding a 17thcondition that savs that th€ applicant should look into the feasibility ofturn lanes and turn lanes should bc added if the city staff feels thdt it'sappropriate and necessary for safety to get people in and out of that newsubdivision. Adding an 18th condition that uould say that Outlot A inEIock 3 shall be under ownership of adjoining prop€rties in some manner.
However the developcr u.ants to divlda it up. Addins a 19th condition that
=Ians shal.l be drawn and submitted to the staff for approval to get a bermand screening along Lyman Boulevard and betwecn Block 1, Lot l and Lots 1and 2 in Block 3.
Erhart: fs there a second?
l.Jildermuth: Second.
:rhart: Any d iscuss ion?
Emmings moved, tlildcrmuth seconded that thc Planning Commission recommendapproval of ProLiminary Plat l9O-1O for Laks Rilcy Hills as shown on the
p Ians
beiu,;ee
fol I^ow
datnt
ing
ed septemb€r 4, 1990 rith a variance to permit a 24O foot offsethe intorsection of South Road and Lyman Boulevard Hith theconditions:
1- Revise the preliminary plat to provide for the fol ]owi n9:
Ieast 125 feet.Lot 5, Block 4 shall have a depth of at
Lot 10, Block 1 shall have four sides.
Lots 11 and 12, Elock l shall have lot frontages of 90 feeE.
Lot 5, Block 4 shall have a lot depth of 125 feet.
The right-of-uray dimensions for North Road and tt€st Road shaII be 5Oreet in width and the right-of-way dimensions for the cul-de-sac shall
be a 50 foot radius. fhe applicant shall grant a 60 foot r.Jideright-ofrway for Lyman Boulevard along the southern border of the plat
and a 120 foot wide right-of-way along Lake Riley Boulevard. The
temporary cuI-de-sacs on North Road shall be barricaded and signed
designaLing them to b€ temporary in lieu of future road extensions and
will be provided with easements over the cul-de-sacs beyond the
dedicated right-of-way.
3 rhe applicant shall remove the gravel road bisecting the C1ass A
wetLand into 2 b,etland areas coordlnated with City staff, Department ofNatural Resources, corps of Engineers and Fish and l.liIdlife Service.
Final plat approval will not be granted until the applicant has
submitted the letter of credit for the feasibility study to beperformed and not until the findings of Lhc feasibility study are knoi.Jn
and the City council takcs appropriate action to provide municipal
uiater service to the sit€.
a
d
4
Planni ng Commission |.!eet i ng
october 3, 1990 - Page 40
5. The applicant shall submit flow calculations for the sanitary sewer
sysiem to verify trip€ capacity and minimum scor€ velocities through
Lhe sewer segments within the proposed subdivision.
't. The applicant shall providc the folloring easemcnts:
Easement ov€r th€ tcmporary cul-de-sacs.
Easements over all sanitary and storm s€uer extensions.
Easements over detention ponds .
Standard drainagc and utility €asements.
Dedication of aII right-of-ways.
aII
a
b
d
e
The applicant's engineer shall rcvier th€ total capacity of thebasins needed to meet the predicted retaining requirements andverification that the proposed ponding areas can be accessed for
maintenance. Provide existing drainage facility information to
from the site (specifically, th€ culvert under Lyman Boulevard ).storm drainage plan shall be modified to incorporate runoff fromwesierly temporary cul-de-sac on North Road.
pond i ng-
city
and
The
the
'7 '-nts 30-35, Block 3 and Lot 4-8, Block 3 shall be provided with special
slope stabilization methods such as Hood fiber blankets and Type
lII erosion control . lype fII erosion control shall be provided over
.'-he entire area bordering tho wetland and along the north side of North-Road. l^Jood fiber blankets shal.l bc required as slope stabilization foraII of the rear lots bordering the wetland area and on all lhe areas
where the slopes are 3:1 or greater. SiIt fence erosion control shall -be installed around any and all proposed detention ponds on the pro.iect
ard the entire site shall be seeded and mulched immediately followins
completion of the grading operation
The applicant shaII provide current planned right-of-way grade andeIe.;ation information for the future Trunk Hishr{ay 212 Improvements forthe segment of roaduay through this subdivision. Noise abatemen!
measures such as earth berming shall be shown on the plan along thesouthern border of the H}{"/. 2L2 corridor.
The applicant shalL provide a tree removal plan with detailedinformation on the size and typ€ of trees being removed and with aIandscaped plan provided for the replacemenL of over 4 caliper inchbeing removed.
The applicant shall receivc tlatershcd District, Pollution Control
Agency and HeaILh Oepartment and any other applicable agencies orpermits.
e
9
The appl icant's engineer s
on the plan sheets revieuc?4, 1990 and submitted bac
make the necessary changes as outLinedthe Asst. City Engineer daLed Septemberthe applicant for the proper changes.
halldbykto
The applicant shall provide a r€gistered engineer's report on soils,footings and structural design and certification of a registeredengineer verifying that th€ grading and drainage has been constructedaccording to the approved plans prior to the issuance of buildinstpermits.
Planning Commission f,{eeting
October 3, 1990 - Pag€ 41
13 .lhe applicant shall dedicate Lots 21-26, Elock 3 for parklanddedication and shall construct a 5 foot Hid€ concrete sidewalkthe southern boulevard area of North Road and along the easternboulevard area of ].,est Road.
along
The applicant shalI entcr into a dcvelopmcnL contract with the city andprovide the necessary financial securitics associated uith the project.
i5. Lot 1, Block 5 shall be designatcd as an outlot and unbuildable.
15.Approval is conditioned upon complianca with all conditions of the
t^Jet land Alteration Permit .
The applicant should Iook into the feasibility of turn lanes and turnlanes should be added if the City staff feels it's atrtrropriate andnecessary for safety to get people in and out of that new subdivision.
19.
i8. outlot A in alock 3 shalI be under owncrship of adjoining properties.
Plans shall be drawn and
berm and screening along'*ots 1 and 2 in Block 3.
submittcd to the staff for approvaL to get
Lyman Boulevard and between Elock 1, Lot 1
a
anC
AlL voted in favor €xcept Tim Erhart rho opposed and the motion carriedui.th a vote of 4 to 1.
!:-hart: I oppose it on the basis that f don't believe that even though Ili.ke '-he plan, I don't b€Iieve Lhat He've don€ adequate assurances that.:o:-vices, both the transportation and s6urer are adequate to see this as a:csitive development,
E.-irini.tqs: I'd like to ask
t"le 're doing a preliminary
r feasibility study to do
arproval also by the Cityfeasibility study.
a question to follow up on what he jus! said.plat here. Before this is a done deal you've got
and you've got to do, there has to be final plat
Council and now if deficiencies uere found in the
!,rauss: They would be addressed prior to final plat approval
Smmings: See there's another plat of this. Just want to be sure.
grhart: Okay, now Ne have to deal rith th€ Hetland alteration permit.
th+re any discussion on that from the Planning Commission members? If
would someone make a motion to deal with thc wetland alteration?
fs
not .
!ildermuth: I'll move that thc Planning Commission recommend approval ofthe Netland Alterati.on Permit for Lake Riley Hills Subdivision as sho!.rn onp!3ns dated September 4, L99O uiLh the following condltions 1 Ehru 3 and
adCing condition 4. Steve, what werc those Hords?
Enmings: It would just be conditioncdof the preliminary plat approval .
',iildermuth: Those words.
upon compliance uith aII conditions
P Ia nni n9 Commission l.leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 42
Erhart: okay, is there a second?
Ellson: Second.
tlild€rnuth aoved, Ellson socortded that th. Planning Conriesion reconmend
approval of tlctland Altcration Perrit for Lakc Rilcy Hills Subdivision as
shosn on plarE d.tcd Septoober 4, l99(t rith thc follorine conditions:
The applicant shaII provide a drainage, utilitr and a conservation
easem€nt over Outlot C and the proposed ponding areas and the 456
contour shall be the edge of the protected wetland.
Any surveys for lots adjacent to the Class A wetl.and wilL provide the
866 elevation with verification that the home and any further
improvements such as porches or decks will maintain the 75 foot setback
from the 865 contour.
A development contract wiII be recorded against the property and willprotect both the Class A uetland and the ponding areas adjacent to thewetland with a conservation easement and not allow any alteration tothese areas -
This approval isPreliminary PIat
conditioned upon compliance urith alI conditions of
s90-10.
AII voted IN favor and thc motion carried unanimously -
1
2
J
4
Erhart: Is the developerthe conditions? Hav€ you
here, the building owner? Okay, do you have all
seen all the conditions?
Tom Ryan: Can I speak to a couplc of them?
Erhart: AIright. Go ahead.
Tom Ryan: Hy name is Tom Ryan and I represent R.J. Ryan Construction, thegeneral contractor for the building. Th€r€,s two issues that we'd like to,a couple issues we'd like to address- The first regards the drainageproblem urhich exists with lhe neighbor to th€ north. He feel it,simportant that we go on record as stating that Industrial InformationControls and R.J. Ryan Construction did not cause the drainage problemwhich exi.sts. The drainage problem which exists is a result of the failureof the previous engineering staff of the city of chanhassen as urelr as thecontractor for the component Engineerinb building which arloued the hraterto run up againsL our property. In the interest of solving the problem weagreed urith Component Engineering and the City staff that's presently inplac€ that because we have a Iot of excess material, we would provide the
PUBLTC HEARITTG:
SITE PLAN At{EhDt{ENT FOR A 4.260 SOI.,ARE FOOT ADDITION TO THE EXISTING
BUILOING ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP AND LOCATED AT 7A7O PARK DRIVE. INDUSTRIAL
INFOR}IATION COITTROLS .
Sharmin Al-Jaff presented the staff report on this item. Vice ChairmanErhart called the public hearing to order,
Planning Commission Heeting
October 3, l99O - Pag6 43
grading and construct a berm on the Component Engineering site but the
Component EnEineering pcopls would be responsible for the resloration of
have about 2 hours worth of work but thcre's a couple thousand dollarsworth of sod that's going to bc replaced. The Iast issue under this it6mis, we raally question the necd to retain an attorney to grant an easementto us to do what amounts to 2 hours worth of uork when xs would hope that asimple letter from Hr. Grnz, thc ouncr of Componont Engineering wouldsuffice and I'm sure he would givc us a lcttar that says yes we havepermission to do thc Eradlng. Thc grading ulll ba done with his agreement.
Erhart: That's it?
Tom Ryan: That's all I've got. The owner has a couple more issues he,dli ke to speak to.
Erhart: Why don't you 90 ahead.
the sod xhich is really thc major portion of the cost involved here. He
Tim Raschlager: Hi, my name is Tim Raschlager and f represent ICIncorporated. I'm one of the threc owners of IC Incorporated. First ofaII I want to thank the people uho represent the city for coming out to thesite. I think there uas more than one visit by several. It's nj.ce to seethey 9o out and see firsthand uhat's involved with our application. Thisapplication started as a bigger addition which has been scaled down,probably more to do uith business conditions than anything and our need to
improve our facility for our current number of employees. Some minor
issues that surfaced are l think the problems with the dumpsters. I'vekind of got into a big ordeal about dumpsters here. Not what I want to
spend my time on but I kind of got into this whole ordeal because we weretrying to do some recycling. t^le work uith a lot of cardboard as a Iot ofindustries do and I found that the area doesn't have, at least from what fcould determine from the people that handle our trash, there seems to not
be a real comprehensive plan for how to handle the trash. The best way to
handle the trash ended up to sort it by us and place it in differentdumpslers. In other words, to eliminate aII ths landfill on the cardboard
which is probably at least 5O? of our wastc, it required an addition of a
second dumpster on the sit€. As I spoke with them with a Ionger range plan
of what they think uiII be rcquircd for a manufaciuring site like ours uill
even include morc separatlon of matcrlal and may includc a third or fourth
kind of container so I think thereis not a good plan maybe for lookinE
forward for in g€n.ral dumpster problemc on industrial sites recognizing
the need for mora containcrs and hox to hidc them and aII thos6 kind ofthings. In addition, I don't know quitc honestly, nevcr noticed thiseither but therc's alI kinds of diffcront dumPster dasigns. One backs thetruck up and pulls it on and anothcr onc tak€s it from the side and no
maLter how you try to packag€ this dumpster, if you change cither the
company you do your trash Hith rdhlch wo rocently did, or have to change thesize of your dumpster, whatevcr plan you had doesn't hork anymore so itreally makes it difficult to figurc this out. Hourever, on page 2 in
several. places it refcrences our loading dock uhich it statss that it's
completely screened and off sita from appcarancc from thc highway. tle havecurrently put our dumpster and nox dumpeters in that same area which is
non-visible from thc highuray. It turn€d out lhat the design of ourbuilding and the way bre hid th€ loading docks works well for this Plan so
we would like to take exccption to buildins somc kind of a permanent
Planning Commission Mecti ng
Octobcr 3, 1990 - Page 44
in herc which we're not quite clear where we'dwith it and what we're hiding. Other than that I
planting 3 tr€es. It's almost kind of an insult to a sense I think here
and our hope uith this addition ls to improvc our, I think the peopl€ that
came over recognized our problems is to improve our working conditions and
ue would like to improvc our sita ln general. t,lc're having to store thingsoutside that should not be outside right now. l.le need more area in ourmanufacturing. Thank you
Erhart: Thanks Tim. Before this gets too far away, why don't we addressthe issues brought up before we g€t any other people up here. Number one
u,as this drainage thing.
Krauss: The drainage thing being the letter instead of the filins?
Erhart: Yeah. fs there any problem uriLh that?
structure as it i ndicatesbuild it and what H6'd do
eas are addressed appropriately. I'm amazed atdition siz. r.a're making here but I think Ee m6€t -s far as I know. The landscaping issue, given the
9oin9 into amounts to 2 or 3 trees, I'm notnt of Chanhasscn and pollinE many of it's staff, -up Hhat app€ars to be some kind of proof of
think all of the other ar
the complexity for the adall this other criteria aIinear footagc that wc'reclear being e good resid.
uhy we'ra rcquircd to put
th
LY
dy
er
Krauss: I guess there isn't. I mean we h,ant to knol. thatproperty oulner has agreed to the altera!ion of their proper
approving a grading plan that requires alteration of somebo
and ue don't have the authority to do that unless that prop
agr ees .
e adjoi ni ng
because we'reelse's Iandty oul ner
Krauss: I would concur. As long as wc have some verification, I'd bewillins to accept an alternative so I think ue can resolve that. As to the-garbage dumpster, I had nevcr realized that it Nas as complex an issue asit appears to be. Nobody's raised that beforc. you tend to build thosethings oversized. It's a rcquirement that I think staff feels verystrongly about. There are also parcels southwest of this property Lhatremain undeveloped. The baof tree cover right nou. T
and I think where we don't
arca may not aLways be invisible. cot a lotcity alwa)rs has required dumpster enclosuresvc th6m, problems occur in the long term.
ck
he
ha
Erhart: But your stat6mene herc ls that, ara )rou saying that has Lo be notvisible from any diroction?
Krauss: No, it's got to be ln an enclosurc. I mean thc cnclosurc can bevisible.
Erhart: Yeah I know butdirection with the truck.hou does a 9uy r he's got to come in from some
Krauss: Yeah, you put masonry on three sides and you gate the fourth.
Erhart: Do ue do that consistently?
Emmings: But you don't need an easement? You can get a Iicensc and theproperty ourner over ther6 can grant a Iicense by simply writing a l€tter.
PIanning Commission Mceting
October 3. 1990 - Page 45
Emmi ngs :
of.
Krauss:
Er hart :
Krauss:
Erhart:
Krauss:
Er hart :
l.le've nevcr approved bulldingg without thcm. Ever. That I know
I know in the tinc I'vc been herc wc hav€n't
oiay, doeE thc building currently havc that?
I don't balicvc so- Thcrc's dumpstcrs, at least onc out back.
Okay, and uhen wag thc buildtng constructlon complelcd?
3 years ago?
So appsrcntly rc approved lt at that time without.
Emmings: ttell go back and look. Oid wc? t{aybe w€ should check. Haybethey just didn't build it.
Erhart: well I think Tim's got a real problem. l.le,re looking at the samething on, our building is adding another dumpster Lo separate trash butwe're fortunate to have a U shaped building so everything is, well it,sinvisible from 3 sides but not 4. I don't know that that's really, Iguess I don't know. Al , what's your situation th€re? Is ever)rthingenclosed in your, from aII sides?
Al fverson: On 3 sides but not on 4 and I can't say that... 3 sides butnot 4.
Tim Raschlager: l.le are invisible right now on 3 sides. The problem with agate, do you ev€r notico what happens to those things after one season?
They look more rickety than thc dumpstcr does. Ouitc honcstly I'd bc happyif aII the dumpstcrs in th6 communlty were painted the sane color but Ican't get the trash pcoplc to paint their dumpsters but I don't know ifblock them from 3 sides, can Lh. trucks comc and access it? And the Iatrucks uith big forks on it, I don't knor where you'd open the gate toyou've got the big. . .
Krauss: That's fine as long as the op€n sidc faccs thc intorior h,hich it
does on thc PI.IT sit6. I mean it faccs, a3 I rccall, the rear of Lhebuildine. As to the lettcr of crcdit, conc.rn about lettcr of credit withIandscaping, that's a rcquircmcnt for any dcvcloper in the city. That'snot a matt€r of trust. It's a matt€r of contract and it's a standardrequirement.
Erhart: Thanks. Is therc any other publlc lnput on thc proposcd
development? Okay, if not is thcre a notion to closo the public hearing?
Ahrens novcd, Uildcr;rth sccondcd to clor. thc nrblic hcaring. All votcdin favor and thc rotlon carrlcd. Thc pu.bl lc hcerine ras closcd.
Erhart: Let's see. Stevo, xhy don't we start with you -
Emmingsr I essentially concur with thG staff report. I didn't se6 any
reason not to take into account, but if th6ro's somc other b,ay to do thetrash storage it makes more scnso than what's here. If it's okay uith the
you
rgeif
Planning Commission Hecti n€l
October 3, 1990 - PagG 46
staff, it'
concer ned
kind of aoth€r comm
easement.
kay with mo so you
ore it Eots to thc
n that suits th€m,I guoss I'vc alrca
u don't nccd to do
from thosc other peopl. sottingthe risht to Eo on thcir propcrt
property is and uhcn it cxpircs.
an wrestle with them as far as I'mlty Council and if you come up with some
wouldn't bc opposed to it. Then my only
), madc on number 5. You don't need an
nythlng very formal . I think a lettcrorth a timc period during which you have
and what thc purposc of Eoing on th€
A lot of meet thc purposes wiII act as a
d should addreas Paul's concerns. That's
c
cI
d
af
Y
SO
bef
Plaent
Yo
Iicense to alloo you to do that anaII I 've got.
Ellson: You knox I supposc this trash thing, I gueas evcrybody else didn'tthink it was such a big deal but it Is something that I'v€ just
automatically see that we do and I'vc nevcr seen a problem with it. I
guess I don't remember if it Has 3 sides and a gate or exactly how it's
been done but I guess from a consistenc)z standpoint I'm not opposed toStev€'s ideas of trying to uork it out but ma)rbe we should relook at it
consistentl,y then as to hbw we state it or something like that versus give -
on6 an exception because they brought it up and then make it a boiler platefor everybody else but in genera.l I Eo along with all the recommendations.
Emmings: The Code, Section 2O-9L2 for the IOP area states that thEre willbe, I'm quoting nour, 'no exterior storage of trash or garbage ispermissible except in an accessory buildinE enclosed by uraIIs and roof or
enclosed containers within a totally screened area.' That's what our
ordinance says for that section of town. It's pretty clear.
t^lildermuth: I'm glad to scc industry in Chanhassen is building so weIIthey can warrant an expansion. I support the staff recommendation.
Emmings: Food out of our mouths-
Ahrens: That's right.
Erhart: I think it's important to bc consistcnt on this trash enclosurc-If screening is using Eates, I adamantly oppoa. putting thaE requirem€nt onpeople. I mean a truck hits thc gatc, thc gatc's bent and that,s it-
EIIson: It docsn't rcally sa)r in what way.
Erhart: tlell, how do you screen 4 sidca without...
Krauss: I think you rcally havc to take the sitc lnto account. A dumpsterenclosure that appeared in what h,as not thc approvcd location on theCountry Hospitality Suitos Hotcl . It sticks out likc a sore thumb onHarket BIvd.. Ultimately we had to agrec uith it in that location but it'sgoing to be gated on the front bccaus. it's visible from our main streetand we're having them cut lt down and raside it so it matches the building
Erhart: Jim?
Ahrens: I support the staff recommendation also although it's verydifficult for me to r€commcnd that someono doesn't need a lauyer to draft a-very difficult easement agreement...but I'll go aIong with staff
recommendation,
Planning Commisslon l{oeting
October 3, 1990 - Paga 47
but that's an cxample of when you'd want it.
Erhart: Okay. Two, I agree wlth Stcvc therc that ure could use a licensing
and last, I thlnk on this landscapc nc'rc talking about how many tr6ss, 4?
Al-Jaff: It's 1 evcry 40 fcct. l.rc won't hold them to 1 cv€ry 40 feet lfthey could shor{ us a landscaping plan that...
Erhart: Okay, uell. Thc issucg in my mind, if staff found some other wayto guarantcc in minimal really small landscaping Job. Thcr.'s somealternativc that thc dcvclopcr could proposc to guarantcc that it's goingto get done, yoq know wc could take a look at that but other than that Ithink the staff report's adcquatc. In fact it kind of makes me feel goodthat this building isn't going and lomconc clsc is havinE a Iittle downturnin their busincss too. So with that, ls thera any other commants?
Tim Raschlager: If wc'rc rcquired to do somothing with this dumpsterhis withproblcm, how is it detcrnincd.. -what kind of material do we do t
ut
I
and, I'm going to bring up an exampla. Across the street fsite which has their's insidc and thare's a...and all kinds
associated t,|ith boat storagc. That site looks far more unsof..-in terms of structurc and the naturc of the...
rom
of
ight
s there's a
hi ngsy in lerms
Tom Ryan: If it's of any value, we would be glad to do the landscapingprior to the. . .
Erhart: That's sort of uhat I had in mini. okay, is thar6 a motion?
tlildermuth: I'lI move the Plannlng Commission rccommends approval for theSite Plan Rcview *87-9 as ehown on the plan dated September 4, 1990 withthe followi.ng conditlons l thru 6 wlth 5 being changed to wording to theeffect that th€ applicant rill collaborrtc, cooperat€ with thc adJaccntproperty oxncr to thc north to resol.vc thc dralnagc lssue.
Erhart: Is therc a sccond?
Emmings: I'll sccond it for discussion. Jlm, let mc ask you on 5. I'm
not sur6 I .xactly understand how you'rc changing 5.
tlildermuth: tlell r,rhat wc'rc saying thcrc ia that it doesn't have to beIegal access granted. Th.y can cooperate togcther or collaborate andperform whatever grading hes to bc donc.
Ahrens: Haybe just changc that onc scntence to read, whcre it says the
applicant shall document? Thrt hc has obtained approval from the
adjoingins property obrnar to Lhc north to perform grading operations.
tlildcrmuth: That sounds Eood. Takc thc legal access business out of
there.
Erhart: I think where we're Eoing Tim is the staff uill take our comments
and essentially work with you to comc up uith somcthing before it go€s toCity Council. tlould you agrce uith that Sharmin or PauI? Yeah. Anythingelse? Do we have a motion?
PlanninE Commission t{eet 1n€t
October 3, 1990 - Paga 48
Ahrens: Is that okay with you?
Emmings: Yeah. No, I think, thcy should do somcthinE to show the City thatthey've got somc klnd of a Hritton agreoment but I don't cara what form it -is. A lcttar's good enough.
tlildermuth: Thc attorncy [n you ia comlng through.
Erhart: So ara wc talking an amcndmcnt hcrc?
Emmingst No, as long ac I undcr3tand that's what hc's dolng.
tlildcrruth rovcd, Erin€E sccondcd th.t th. Phnnlng Coulclion rccoercnd
approval of Sitc Plan Rcvlcr tB7-9 .a rlrorrn on thc plan datcd Soptcnbcr 4, -1990 ard subjcct to thc follorine conditiona:
1
2
3
Provision of trash storagc enclogurc for aIl outsid
The enclosure is to bc madc of masonr). compatible r,lstructure
etirh rash storage.the pr imary
4
Designated handicapped parking shall be shown on the plans. Provideproof of parking plans for 8 stalls for staff approval . These stallsshall be installed upon request by the City after there is evidence ofa parking shortfall.
Provide additional landscapi.ng on the north portion of the site and alldisturbed areas shall bc seeded and an erosion control blanketinstalled until vegetation is re-established. Financial guarantees for-
Iandscaping shall be submlttcd Lo th€ City prior to issuance of abuilding permit. Also, provide Type III erosion control around alIdisturbed areas of the site, especially along the creek.
The applicant must demonstrate that theri is no more than .5 footcandles of Iisht from fixtures at the prop€rty Iin€.
The applicant shall work with city staff and thc adjoining property
own6r to tha north to r€solve Lh. curr€nt drainaEe problem. Th€ ownerof Lot 2, Block 1, Chanhasscn LakG3 Businsss Park 4th Addition shallgrant th€ ouncr of Lot 1, Block 1, Chanhass€n Lakes Businese park 4thAddition a temporar),. grading eas€ment to allow the owner of Lot 1to dothc required gradlng. Thc applicant shrll obtain approval from theadjoining propcrty to thc north to p€rform grading operations toresolve the drainage problem to the s.tlsfaction of the Clty andEngineerinE Componcnts, Inc.. Also, thc applicant shall providc therequired sscurity Lo Euarantec thc crosion conlrol , grading andrestoration operations. The dock arca drainage problcm must bccorrected. Additional pavemcnt areas may noed eo be removed andreplaced in order to allow proper drainagc from thc loading dock endconcreLe pad area.
The applicant shall submit plane to the tJatGrshed district for reviewand obtain a pcrmit if neccssary.
6
All voted ln favor end thc .otlon cerricd unaniroucly.
Planning Commission Hsctln€l
Octob€r 3, 1990 - Pag6 49
PUBLIC }GARING:
zoNrNG oRDrttAt{cE AIfIP}ENT To AlEto sEcrroirs 20-71,4 AtD 20-414. coiDrrro{AL
USES TN THE E{ AT$ I@ OISTRICTS TO ALLOU AT5 CREATE STAISARDS FOR VEHICLF
TNSPECTIOI{ STATIOTS IN T}ESE DISTRICTS.
ArrI)
JERRY PERKII{S OF FOPE ASSOCIATES. PR@ERTY ZOIED IOP. IiDUSTRIAI- OFFICE
PARK AND LOCATED AT T}E INTERSECTIO{ OF PARK ROAD At{D PARK PLACE:
A- COIOITIO{AL I'SE PER'IIT TO Al-L()lI F(n A VEHICLE TNSPECTION STATIO{;
B. PQELT ITINARY trLAY YO T LOT 3- m|(I . CHATGASSEN LAKES zuSINESS0aek5TI{ ADDTTIII{ TNYII TI5 LOTS
Publ ic Prr3cnt:
Nam6 Add r ess
Jerry Perkins
Dennis Palmer
John Uban
l.lal ter Rockenstei nAlan Klugman
Dave Braslau
Stanley J. KrzywickiAI Iverson
Sue Kr ienke
Hugh Yeager
Dick HeI Istrom
Dave Kelso
Barb Jackson
Tim Raschlager
Gary tlelch
1360 En.rgy Park Dr ive
5275 Edina Industrial Blvd.
DahlEren, Shardlow and UbanAttorney for Systems ControlTraffic Eng i neer
1313 sth St. S.E., Suite 322, MpIs, 55404
5275 Edina Industrisl BIvd.
PtlT, 15OO Park Road
15OO Park Road
32O 1.,. 76th Street, *zOL, Edina, HN 55435
15OO Park RoadPollution Control AgencyPoIlution Conlrol Ag€ncyIndustrial Information ControlsIndustrial InformaLion Controls
PauI Krauss presentod the staff rcport. Vice Chairman Erhart called thepublic hearing to order .
Emmings: If you'rc still gathcring information, arG you asking us to acton this tonlght or to tablc it again until that information comcs in?
Krauss: The only information which wc arc in the process of attempting togather is wc spokc, thc l.layor spok. to us this mornlnE and suggcsted th.t
we contact adjoinine property owners- tlhat ne proposa to do is bring thatinformation to the Clty Council meeting lf you act on this proposal
tonisht
Erhart: Okay, what I'd Iikc to do ls opcn this up to th€ public input andto deal only with thc first itcm uhlch is thc zoning ordinance amendment atthis point. And that is thc amcndnent that would allol a vehicleinspection station in Chc BH and IOP district, tlhat I'm trying to do isnot get specifics relatcd to this 3itc plan initially until wc have anoPPortunily to, well let's givc lt a shot. I think Es crn g6t more s€nsedone. So with that, would somconc havc somc comments about th€ ordinance
change?
Planning Commisslon l{6cting
October 3, 1990 - Page 50
Dennis Palmer: Good eveninE tlr. chairman, membars of the Commission. Hy
name is Dcnnls Palmcr, I'm genaral manrgcr ulth Systems Control. Thank
you for the opportunity to comc herc and speak beforc you.
Erhart: Excusc mc. You'rc Acncral nanagcr of shich comPany?
Dennig Palmcr: Sy!t.n8 Control . Sy8tcFrs Control is tha private contractor-
contractcd by thc Statc of !{lnn€sota to conduct thc emission testing
program hcre in lllnn.sota. Thc location here in Chanhasscn is onc of 11sites sclccted for thc program. l.lc'rc herc to supPort thc staff 's
recommendation to al,lor. cmisslon testing Bt.tion3, vehicle inspcction
stations ln an IOP diatrict ac a conditlonal usc. I havs uith mc this
evcning a numbcr of people to addrcsg Jugt about all your concerns
regardlng the usc and traffic and such. tlc havc xith us John Uban from
Dahlgren, Shardlow and Uban to talk a littlc bit about the use and I
guess I'Il reserve my comments for 5 shortly after that.
Erhart: Okay, thanks.
John Uban: I'm John Uban. I'm a consultinE land planner and they've
asked, we've Iooked at thc particular ordinance, the condition of the area -
and we have looked at the industrial park and we have found that when
Iooking at an ordinancc that I think you should really decide where is thebest place and not have it go into two. And as we Iook at both business
uses and industrial uses, He s6a that Lhis t€sting facilitv in our opinionreally falls better into an industrial typc use. For insLance, in Plymouththe State has similar facilities that Lh€y use to Lest drivers to getdriver's licenses and it's off Fcrnbrook. It's in an industrial area and
normal industrial growth has happened around that facility. It testspeople. It tests c.rs. It tests pcople for driver's licenses. Thisfacility as proposed also Lests and thet is basically an industrial typeuse. Industrial type activity. Thcy don't come and pay money. It is afee that's covered in thcir normal Iicensing applications and so there is
no commerce in the sensc of people buying things. Buying serviccs
Transactions with money. That kind of activity normally would happen in a
commercial zone whcre you do have people buying things and it's that kindof activity, that kind of commcrce that this particular usc usually doesnot fit in with and it's commonality is bcst with industrial typa uses.
And so to try and encourago it ineo an ar6e that is bct.tcr suited forbusincsses or is morc attractivc for busineescs I don't think is wise. Andthe other thlng that thc arcas along TH 5 havc in thc business zoncs isvisibility and that ie a very important attribut6 thrt property has that
makes it valuablc and vcry attractiva for businesscs, especially thoseareas close to thc downtown arca of Chanhasscn and I think you want tostrengthen downtoun, strengthcn your buslnesr zonc3 by having us63 thathave common inter€sts and business uscs that havc commerce as that bascwould be bettcr suited along TH 5 rith visibility. And so I think thlstype of use of testing automobj.les is better suitcd in an industrial area. -Industrial ar€as can handlc the minimum amount of extra traffic this maycreate. It is built that uay. Thc facility is very attractivc so it meetsall the aesth.tic conccrns and it's pcak trafflc for inslance, the peaklng -of traffic in induetrial areas in thc morning and cvcning xherc you havetraffic problems that mly occur, this facillty doas not peak at thoseParticular tim€s. And so I think it works vcry well and is complimantaryin that fashion. Thc othcr thing lhat Hr looked at and ne had an appraiser-
Planning Commlssion l.lcctlng
Octob€r 3, 1990 - Plgo 51
Iook at the impact on property valuee if such a facility w6rc to go into anindustrial area. Their rcvlew found that therc Has no advarse impact tosurrounding propertics whcn this is locatcd in an industrial park and so wefeel that allowing this usc, eithcr pcrmittcd or conditional usc, in anindustrial park is thG appropriatc approach. Thank you.
Emmings: flay I ask a question? Did you providc a copy of your appraiser,sreport to the city?
John Uban: That, wc havc a summary thich will bc provided tomorrow. treiust dld not havo a copy that had bcen flnally prepared for lonight butthat will bc for thcm tomorrow,
Erhart! Thanks John. Anybody else? Is thcre anybody opposlng th€
ordinance changes?
Sue Kr ienke:
Corporation anthe location o
People per weestation. DirePark. In thc
HY namc is Suc Krienkc and I'n thc Officc Manager for PMTI have some, what I feel are v€ry legitimate concerns aboutthc station. At thc current timc we are having 6 to 10
coming in and asklng dlrectlons. Nor{ not directions to theions to other busincsscs in thc Chanhassen Lakes Business
df
k
c
J
t
onathan Park. Chanhassen. All over the surrounding area.okay? So even with the signs that will be provided, I still see that thesep€ople stopping in and asking directions wiII at least double if nottriple. I mean you'rc cven talking nhere's the HcDonald's. You knou we'regoing to get that type of question. tle'Il also be getting people stoppingin asking to use the phone and tha restroom facilities and again, I don'tfeel lika Pl{T or thc peoplc who workI uould think that a much bcttcr loca
major highway where p€opl€ can flnd Iis being penal.ized, we'lI bc penalizc
mc should hav€ to deal with that.for the station would be on aght away. I feel almost Iike Pl.lTr being next to the station. AIso
Irant to emphasizc thatif this is passes ,ls ugc in an industrialpleaac speak .
withtiontridfoat the present time, the Chanhassen Lakas Business Park is a cleanindustrial park. If you drivc up and down Park Road on an average dayyou'II see numbers of employees from PHT, Empak and other places down the
road where the employees are sitting outside having breaks, uralking up and
down the road enjoying the nicc weather and getting some exercise. tlith
thes€ cars traveling up and down the road, xill the walking be possible?
You knox it's a nice quiet pleasant atmosphere now to get away from your
Hork station. l.lhat will it bc like nith thc cars and thc traffic outtherc? Thank you.
Erhart: Thank you. Anybody elsc? Again, I jus
we're dlscusslng nos ls thc ordlnancc changc thaesscntially it'd bc vcry difficult not to allorpark or thc BH district so anybody who oppogcc I
tt
rht,
Dick Hellatrom: Hy namc's Dick Hellstrom. I'm a consultant forfacilities, planning and constructlon. Right nos one of my clients is Pl'lTCorporation. I was retained by then to hclp plan and build 5O,OOO squarefoot addition to thclr existlng 25,o0o squarc foot facility, Thc conccrnI'd bring up is whcthcr it's PllT corporation or anothcr lndustrial officepark type of cllent ln the Chanhassen Businesc Park or anothcr fOP, they'vo
Eot a great dcal of invsstmcnt in thcir land alrcady. Thelr sPecials andin case of Pt{T, the onnershlp of thc propcrty. Use of, in my oPinlon, non-
compatible typ€ operation le going to causc his propcrty valuc to go down.
Planning Commission l.l66tlng
Octobcr 3, 1990 - Pag. 52
I would think therc would be good polcntial for it. I don't think I could
guarantee it's going to go down. f don't think opposlng peoPle that want
to put that non-compatiblc use in thore can gurrantcc that it's not going
to 9o dorn. Hc also, or PI{T in thls casc has vcry cxp.nsive ProPerty. Not-
only arc they impinged on thc ucst by thc inspection station, they'll bc
impacted on thc north bccause he's got cvon a larger lot and thc ttrofacilities, thc 25,OoO and thc 50,OOO. Th€ potcntial to develoP officcindustrial opcratlon on that lot is going to bc imPacted nogatively in myopinion- Not only if he owns to us. or to staff it with his own operationor bullds to lcasc. It would seen to ma that thcrc's a biE potential for a-
negativc usc of that propcrty that hc might not ov.on bc able to build rhat
he Hants to build bccause hc won't bc ablc to flnd a clicntele or be ablcto l6as. thc propcrty to, whethar it'e manufacturing, whcther it's office,
whether it's warehousc typc opcratlons. I don't think staff has adequatelf
explored thc negatives of what one of these stations has done to anexisting industrial offlce park. They said thcy hav6 plans of conLacting
some of the people but they brought up nobody yet. Nobody else that ..,e can-
contact and say is it really tru€. 13 lt really havc a very minimal
impact? They've only talked to city people and all the city people areprobably concerned with is ma)ubc an additional tax bese or somcthing ofthis nature. Not the negative impact on tho axisting businesses. That'sall I really Hant€d to bring up. Thank you.
Erhart: Thanks Dave. Tho survey we did Has on talking to other cities
about problems?
Krauss: It was other units of government, yeah.
Erhart: Do ue havc plans to contact surroundlng businesses or did we talkto any?
Erhart: You werc going to do that for thc Council?
Krauss: Yeah. The Mayor spoke Lo us about that this morning.
good suggestion and wc'II folloH up on that.It Has a
Erhart: Tim, this is, wc're struEglingbuilding in this park. Do you have any
Tim Rashchlager: tlc're neighbors wlth
this onc. You guys oxn a
ngs?
man and he has of course a
G impect... I rcally think twoe strongly considered. tte alrcady-hc numbcr of people coming in our
normal
employees havc
The problem
oPcr
ere and down
ulthfecli
facilit
Po i nts
have a
Ro
rh
bt
a
ya
tha
rea
lso thcre. I thlnk probably
t arc wcll takcn that necd toI problen rith thc road...andfront door and asking dircctions. It's real disruption to
business every day therc. Thc sccond impact...wc've had trroserious accidents in thc last 6 months. Both cars totalcd.
was traffic on thos€ cornars th€re. And without doing the prdirectional signals at the corner where you Gnter th€ park thby...and evcn potentially doxn as far ag thc niniature golf course on TH 5.-
Those three corners already can'! tolarete the curr€nt traffic and any
amount on...would bc suicidal . In fact I will strongly Euess that you'rcgoing to have a fatality on onc of thosc thrc€ corners in tha n€xt 12
months.
EIIson: Before the Council.
Planni n9 Commission l{eetinE
October 3, 1990 - P.go 53
Erhart: Thanks. That was Tim Raschlager from rrc- okey. Anybody else onthe issue of th6 ordinancc changc? AI?
Al rvcrson: l'lr. chairman and membcrs of the pranning conmission, my nameis Ar rvcrson and rm the Presidant of thc pf.lr corporatlon. r appreciatcthe timc that you put into this. I,m a manufacturer and I'm not totallyfamiliar uith alr of th€ thlngg thst tako placc and r gucss that esch manis rcally right in thcir orln Gyc!. l.lc came to thc IOp looking for anenvironment to grow. Our company has been grouling vcry, v€ry rapidly. Hemanufacturc medical surgical products. l.le havc 1oo employees - r expect toadd 50 in 1991 minimum. You'vc listened to a number of pcople and webelieve the roP should not bc rezoned to allou this. r've Hitnessed whatMs. Krienke goes through. 1{r. Hcllstrom uho is assisting us in thedevelopment of what we'd ]ikc is four total buildings which actualry uourdsurround, almost surround the inspection site, and I do anticipate to buildit for our use and there's a possibility to build it for, I knou right nowwe have about a 2Ot officc vacancy rats but I don't cxpcct that to IastIong with our groh,th in Chanhassen and I anticipate there might be anopportunitv for additional office building to leasc ouc to professionartenants. I don't think this is going to help me bring any professional
o anticipate , thetenants because Lh€re's a nice pond there. tJe're goin
DNR hrants us to leave it. tre uranted to Ieave it anywabehind Lhere. A pond ulhere some of the amployees cannice site- It's a nice amenity. tt's a natural sitebuild around it and add to tho IOP the way it should bhere with the philosophy of it being truly an industri
in9t
Y.
go
so
€.
al
That
out .
we fee
And s
irectlynd, a
could
came
isd
APolwe
o uleoffice par k andr think the urord park is realry somethlng that t,ra shourd seriously considerthat employees deserve, l.le don't havc sweat shops. l.le have good breaksthat ue pay for. They have lunch times. They Iike to ualk. They like toget out. Ne've added a new lunch spac. with morc windou. I'lore plaza.
I'lore exposure. tle have aII air conditloncd facilities. l.t€ try to do th6best we can. It's a small to mcdium company. They do like to get out andabout and this is not conduciva to that at all and I would be Eoing against
my philosophy and not doing my part in not opposing this strongly.Hr. Uban, the consultant stated this item. This lraining center inPlymouth is actually a very short distance off of a wcll driven road. Thisis not. I think that unit in Plymouth is not a good example. [.te see andyou've hear
myself and
and I just
I must statthat brough
bout the disruptionE. I'vc rcthouEht about the corn€r areas
but it's getting better and uc havc a lot of opcnings in evcrythinE from
hink it uould bccomo mor6 of a dangerous, serious situation't think this is the sltc. I appreciatc all your time andhat this is just not th6 slta nor rlthin thc truc philosophys out hsrc. l.lc'vG vcry satlsficd by thc way with coming outot a trcmcndous group of peoplc. tlc drar from as far away as
Hamburg. It'a a littlc blt hardcr gctting Fcople out here
daII
don
ettucg
and
here. tJa'v
Montgom6r y
assbmbly to engineering but this ie not going
and our futurc expansion plans for additionalthese are more in line wlth the officr park.
conducive to our groxth
buildings and I thi nk
you .
to bc
off i cc
Thank
Erhart: Thanks AI .
Hugh Jaeger: llr. Chairman and the Planning Commission, I'm Hugh JaeEer,attorncy from Edina. I rcpr€scnt Pt{T Corporttion. I also r€porcsent EmpakCorporation. Al asked mc to com€ out tonight and chat and there are a
Planning Commission l{ceting
October 3, 1990 - Pagc 54
number of areas I can dwell on but it's getting late and I'm sure all of
you would like to 96t homc .3 I will so I'lI make it short and sweet. AI
is concerned about the IoP dcsignation itself lf thc area is rezoned
conditional us€ or anothcr tyP. of usc. tlhat ullll it l.ad to next?
oPenwillrrh
loo k
thc door to this typc of use, you can bc assured that other Peop
be knocking on thc door. I urs .rking Al som. of thc othcr excc
ought peoplc could comc along with and I'll jUst cut it short theat thc IoP whlch thc Chanh.sscn ar.a hac as a clean technologyindustrial park. Ev.ryon6 who ig thera is quite clean. There is light
manufacturinE EolnE on. Hlgh tcchnology. A numbcr of sophisticated groups-
toIf
Ie
PTrc
a
you -
ions
T_
of peoplc lcad to our guallty of lifc acalled the city employccs thic past rac
and chatt€d with thcm and suegcatcd to
our gover nor spaaks about. Ior the first part of this wcck
cm I thought therc were a lot of
s
k,th
dI
ca
well as anything else they have to do. Possibly along T
Delaware and they havc a numbcr of vehlclc lnspection station
to.
thtvbH5
be placcd ncxtitself. I thourc of thcir cit
other areas this type of a statlon coul
thouEht I had was next door to city hal
an ideal placc sincc poopla could takc
TH 5.
wer6 mo
,notooing do
somerhere inbetween Chanhassen and Eden Prairie iEseIf alongpolitely told that they really felt that the lots along TH 5
commercial business use. I look at th6 problems of coming in
zoning problems itself but that the property values will be g
asked the city employee if they had ever been to a vehicle te
themselves. I guess they had not thcy really said. ltly paren
is cngt
nd5tof
on 't
I{y firstthat would be
usiness here as. l.'laybe
I Hasre for
nly theurn. I -
sting stationts reside ins there. Ifirst oneslined up. Is of cars. I
ongested at this -hrough an
:OO at night ,the park, there _need to
know that
down and a
was looki ndon't thin
whe nt 8:
9atkrh
my dad and I take our car down. we like to be
oo th6y will havc anyuherc from 20 to 1oo carsthc summary h6re, but I'm talking massive lineis is rcally xhat the IoP uas planned for. The clean
technology look of looking at peoplc coming and 9oin9 out. I checked with
some of the other resldents on Audubon Road. They wcre talking about thetraffic congestion and some of the other problems and the lack of stopIishLs on TH 5. I psrsonally knou onc person, mysclf on TH 5 uho was in a
serious accident there a coup.l.e of ycars ago and I would hate to see a
Iarge pile of bodies form. The highway iLself I thinkpoint and it just can't handle this type of traffic goi
industrial park. I think bctwecn 8!OO in thc morning a
betu,een the trucks that do egrsss and ingress in and ouis enough traffic going in and out rlght now that you dsignificantly add to it. Something I'vc found uas intcresting myself isthat the peoplc said thcy're 9oin9 to bc submittinE a summary Lomorrow. fthought it would have been morc timcly to havc submitted a summary in
advance so everyono could lnspcct thc documcnts along the uay. I'lI go
ahead and not dwell on the lcaal isaua8 tonight but I fcl'l it's a Pandora'sBox. You rezone one parcel in thc IOP, what's it golng to do to the other -parcels along the way and you rcally havc, what they'ra asking for ispotential change of the wholc charactcr i zat ion of thc IOP and what willthat do to the property values along thc way. and whcn thc IOP wasestablished was that rcally the true intcnt of the zoning of the IOP. I -don't really think it rras if you look at the cxisting buildines going up.ft's devoted to clean technology, not vchiclc repair stations, EvEn thoughthis is not going to bc a vchicle repair station, it's going to be vehi.elc -testing but vehicle tesLlng means vehiclcs coming and parking. Lines.
People and all of the other sundry things that 9o on. tlith all dueresPect to our city employecs uho have checkcd uith other vehiclc testingstations in other surrounding communitics, I think if you go off to the
Planning Commission Hccting
October 3, 1990 - Pagc 55
east coarun by ta very m
see thatthink thIater tiaIl ulant
st and look at vchiclc inepection stations thcrc, cepecially thosche. Statc, avcn though thcy're not run by privata conlractors, it,such morc differcnt rtor), thln I'vc aeen protrayed mysclf and I justthat would do nothlng but dcvaluc th. propcrty herc and I don,tc intcnt io thcrc. I'll akip a lot of my othcr argumcnts for amc or r.s.rvc thosa for submicslon at r latcr tima. I'm sure reto gct homc. Thank you.
Erhart: Thanks Hugh. Anybody clcc?
l.ral t€r Rockcnstain3 |.lr. Chairman my namc is lJaltcr Rockcnstein. I'm anattornoy rcprcscntlng systcm! control and Id llkc to rcspond !o a fcw ofth€ points that havc bccn madc and try to confinc mysclf to thc issuc ofthe zoning ordinancc and thc changc that,r belng proposcd. I gucss I,llwor k backwards. First of all .a fcw of Hr. Jaeger's commcnts as rapidly asr can. His refcrcnc. to th. long llnes and problams with testing stationsin thc east Hherc r rtcnt to lar school and rivcd for a numbcr of-ycars,armost uniformiry thosc tcsting st.tions are safety t€stlng stations andare State run. Thcy arc not cmieclon8 tcsting stations only. That'a avery different proccas. A much longcr proccss to go through the safetytest than it is hcra. Thc time to do onc hcrc is 2 minutes on the averagcto handre onc of th.sc. rn tcrms of uhcth€r it's a clean technolosy. Lhibuilding basically has two typcs of equipmcnt. Computcrs, which read theexhaust and dynanoncters for making surc lhat thosc cars that fail the test.the first timc arc warmcd up propcrly to take th€ teat the sccond timo lndif they fail it th. sccond timc, thcy have to go E€t Lhc car fixedsomeplace elsc. Not on thc sitc. There,s no vchicle rcpair donc on thesite. As Co thc issuc of clcanlincss and noise, we havc providcd you withstudies by Dr. Braslau rho docs thlc rcgularly. Hc has providcd you with,specifically uith noigc contours bascd on the sLate Noisc codes which showthat the noise contours pcrmittcd in this typ. of zone do not reach outsldet.he property lines of thls prop.rty. Hc's also provided you spccificallywith information on thc impact on air quality. Not on thc sitc butactuallv on th6 Pl'lr sit€ whlch shous that those levcrs are far below thestate standards. Thc st!t. standarda arc a health based standard based onthe impact on pcoplc uho arc susccptlble to carbon monoxldc pollutlon so weare talking about a faclllty which is tcchnologically quitc advanccd andquiLc clcan. tlhan xa gct to thc spccific site issucs, our lraffic cngineerwill bc hrppy to dlccuss thc traffic f lor.rg, the capacit), of thc strcGts inthe arca and I think hc wlll domon.tratc that thc atrccts do have thccapacity to takc thc traffic and rc rlll avoid thc problcm of pcoplc
Iooking for it by signagc. Frrnkly I drove out hcr. tonight. I,vc neverbeen in that industrial park. I drovc out ln the dark. I did not havc my
nd hc dctcrmlncd that thcrc nould not bc an advcrscvalucc for making thls kind of change to the zoning. In
map in front of mc. I kncs only thc nanos of the strccts and I hit thctesting statlon on thc first try ln thc dark. It is not a particularlydifficult placc to find. You com. dor.n TH 5 fron thc Gast, you go douncR 17 and across park and you,r. thcra at thc tcating atation.. If that issupplementcd by clcar clgnagc on thc Statc Routc and on thc CounLy Routc,it should be a fairly casy placc to rGach coning from either thc east orthe wcst. Our appraisal whlch uc will providc thc full rcport. tJe simplycouldn'! gct it asscmblcd for tonight's m..ting. He'lI providc the fullreport to thc clty tomorrow. Our appralacr rcvicucd thig carcfully lnterms of other compareblc ueca that vchiclo testlng rtations, licenscEesting statlonc aimpact on propcrty
Planning Commission Heeting
October 3, 1990 - Paee 55
short ule disagree with the points raised by Hr. Jaeg€r and i'lr. Iverson.
believe this can be a good neighbor and we have provided for vou
information which is in your packet I believa from other, both fromIllinois and llaryland uhich lndicates that around those testing slations
there has been a continued growth of industrial districts where thev're
located in industrlal distrlcts. In offlce dlstrict districts xhcre
they're located in officc districta and indeed wherc thcy'rc located
adjacent to residcncos, Lhora'g cvcn bccn lncrcasc 1n the emount of
tJF
residential development around thcse testing statlons. l{r. Krzyuicki iusttold me Lhat in fact onc
lake immediately across f
an adverse impact on the
char acter i zat ion of this
impac
ma desite
of thair oncs ln Illlnois ls located on a small
rom a profcssional building and thcrc'6 not been -professional buildinc so ue do not agree Hith the
as somcthiner that's going to hava an advcrse
develop the surrounding land and we thlnk l'tr. Uban
Erhart: Okay, thanks Hr. Rockcnstein. Anybody else?
Sue Krienke: I'd like to comment...regarding the signs. l.lc're not so nuch
concerned that people are going to havc trouble finding tho atation. The -roads are going to be ueII marked likc you said but rlhat about what other
things are they going to be looking for xhile they're in thcre? How many
times are they going to knock on our door looking for l{cDonald's or
downtown Chanhassen or use the telephone or uae thc rcstroom facilitias?
Erhart: Thank you. Anybody clse?
to
tha
PIa
n the ability tot clear in his prcsentation. tle will be morc sPecific rbout the
n when that comes up. Thank you.
Erhart: Okay that's, I thlnk He'll dlscusa that hcrc if rG'vc Aot any morG-questions on it but I gucss a proccdural discusaion hcrc. I gucas my polnt
herc was to cssGntlally lcavc op.n th€ publlc hcaring for thc ordlnance
chanse and I guess uhat t uas thinkins of doing 1g closing that anddiscussing that and I gucas passlng on that bcforc rc procccd to the site -plan or to thc conditional ulc pcrmit. f8 that thc rlry you ..c it Paul orthe other commissloncra? Is thcrc a roason to go ahcad and trcrt thcm allin lump?
Emmings: I havc a fccllng lrG can do lt cithcr ray and it docsn't matterbut I thirrk ue'd probabl), cave comc timc lf uc got conm.nts on cvcrything
because I think we'vc probably hcard Just about cvcr)rthing.
Erhert: Alright. Is th.rc any othcr comm.nt th.n on thc condltional usc
and the spccific sitc plan that lrG'rc Looking at?
Gary tlolch: I'm Gary tlclch. I'm Tim's partn€r. I run IIC. ln onc of thegentlcman's commcnts hc las aaying that it rould takc 2 ninutss to chcck
Stan Krzywicki: ilay I comm€nt to that? Since we are, my name ls StanKrzywicki. I'm the implcmentation manager. Since wc'rc golng to be a
State run operation fully slgned uith an information officc, you'rc notgoing to be getting those calls, wc wiII. [.le'rc coing to havc a phone.
l.le're going to have a public restroom therc 60 thc people that have been
coming off the strset wlII be more likaly to come to our facillty than.
Sue Krienke: Onc phone and one rcstroom can handlc how many pcople?
Pl.anning Commission l.'leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 57
our car. Is the traffic then 1 car cvGry 2 minutes going down the road?Is that a corr€ct lssumption? At l.a3t? I mcan you knoe, that rould be noback-up r ight?
Erhart: If I remember the rcport right lt xas BOO car6 a day.
EI Ison: 4OO .
Krauss: They have theirto that.traffic conaultant hcrc uho I think uould rcspond
Dennis Palmer: Can I addrese that?
Erhart: Sure.
Dennis Palmer: Each lanc is caprblc of tcsting en average of 1car...sothat's the capacity of tho station... Numbcr of vehiclcs nill bc somewhatless than that. t.le build our stetions to cxcced th€ capacity. Thisparticular station is over 25Ot capacity of thc avcrago daily volume sothere uon't be that much ao rG can ccrvice cara as they come in.
Gary tlelch: I guess my commcnt rould bc that I klnd of agrce with thepeople from Pt'lT that the industrial park ls a nice, rclatively quiet park.I was just in here on zoning on our buildlng and I havc to say thatChanhassen as a whole has done a real good job on making thc industrialpark look good and if you 9o around to tho othcr surrounding communities,and compare them, you'Il sce that Chanhasscn Lakas is probably onc of thebest looking and weII planned lndusLrlal parks ln th€ arca. To put a carevery 2 minutes on aII the roads I think lould elrcatly diminish theindustrial park. tlhy everyon€ ls out thcra. It is kind of a nicc localionto go to work to. There's ponds. Thcrc's trces lnd I don't think that
amount of traffic, I mcan nhy would you build ! ctalion that can tcst 3cars every 2 minutes if you'rc not plannlng ln thc future of having 3 carseveyy 2 minutcs go through thc thing? That to m. is an aurful lot oftraffic to be dj.vertins off of and dobrn thoac roads. That's all I had.
Erhart, ! Thanks. Anybody clsc?
Dick Hellstrom: |taybe Just . llttlc follow-up hcrc. On thc ary lt xls BOOcars a day and lf lt ras spr.ad ov.r...lt rouldn't bc auch r algnificantimpact but what kind of guarantcc or alaurancc do xe hevc that lt is sprcadout over a uholc day? ...thcy lll cof,ic ln rt 8:45 .nd 8:SO lll thc xay
dorl n through the dry? It dos3n't rrork that t.lay. I rould thlnk pcoplc are
9oin9 to go when they'rc good lnd r.edy to go and thcrc't no guerrntcc uhcnthe 8OO's going to lnplct. It rould .acm to DG .l3o that .t thc cnd of thcnonth Hhcn cvcrybody now knows that lt'a Novcmbcr 3oth and bcforc I can gct
my neL, tabs I'vc aot to gct ln thcrc and f forgot to do lt. I'vc bccnputting it off. Then I sould cxpcct en lnundatlon of naybc e couplGthousand c.rs a day. Llhlt kind of lrsurrncc thet thlc ls not going to
happen and what kind of affect lt'r golng to havc on ecccss to TH 5 from
17.
Erhart: And your
Dick HeI lstrom:
namc i3?
Dlck Hsl lstrom .
Planning Commission l'teet i nE
October 3, 1990 - Page 58
Erhart: So He're going to geC the traffic rePort
Dennis Palmer: Yeah, I'm Dennis Palmer. The assurance you have sir is the
references thaL Paul Krauss and Sharmin rccelvcd from the othcr locations. -tle do, and I am here to addrcas thc traffic, ainco we are on th6 usequestion. I do Hant to say for thc rccord that Systcms Control accePts thE
conditions that the staff has rGcommcndcd. l.le also agree to thc 5 foot
setback. tl€'ve extendcd our bcrm and xG'vc Provldcd morc than rdequate
scrcening on the Ecst aide of thc ProPcrty. And lct mc addrGos traffic
if I may. Before I lntroducc AI Klugnrn frorD trcatHood Profcssional
Services, he's hcre. He's a trafflc cnginccr and he'11 addrcss it further -but I do Hant to say that our ctudlcc arc basod on Peak dcalands. Lle do
realize that people do not comc ln ln cvcn lntcrvals. Th.sc arc Peak
demands bascd on experiences. 1994 lcvcls. Howcvsr Peak dcmands don't
occur very often but all the studics are noise studies, our air qualitv
studies, our traffic studies, cvcrything le basad on the worse case
situation. l.le spoke a bit to air qualitv last time. I think ue've
addressed that adequately. I Hon't gct lnto that. l.,ith resPcct to
traffic, ue do concede that ther€ xore Problems in the Illinois Program.
Let me say that as the report indlcatcs, that there wcrc Problcms with the
mailings. It's a fundamentally diffcrcnt program here in l,tinnesota than it-
uras in Illiriois. In l.linncsota tha rPPolntmcnts or ths tim.s that PeoPIe
Here supposed to come in for their tcsts xrrc not tied to rogistration
renewal. They uere tied to thc Statc's distribution of notices. tlhat had -happened is the notices weren't distributcd cvenly. That cln't haPPen.
This program is b6tt€r. It's morc balanccd here nlth rcEistratlon renewal
and they're evenly divided ovcr thc 10 month pcriod. Th€rc was also a
problem with openings. Not all stations oPcned iramediatcly thc first date -of the progrlm had begun. That's the rcason why somc stations HGre over
burdened. Itts the I'IPCA's positlon and thcy're hcre tonlght to say thatfirst hand that no station lrill opcn until all atations arc rcady to oPen. -ttith respect to the Florida progrem. Thc Florlda Progrrm uas a State runprogram. It was safet)z inspcction and lt nas grossly undsrsizcd. Thc
stations were small and therc {crcn't cnoueh of thom. It uas a State runprogram. tlhst rlorida did las canccl thc Program for that rGason and thcy -put ou! a r6qu6sL for propoEal and asardcd Systcms Control ! contrect to dc
the cmission tasting and do it rieht. llith rcapcct to Californi!' that's
an cntirely differcnt progran. f think aooconc ncntioncd lart tlm. that
there r,ras a problcm in Californla. Cellfornla'! a dcc.ntrrlizcd Program.Therc's not a contractor that tc;ts vchlclcr. Thcy'rc donc ln garagcs rnd
gas stations so it's just a diffcrcnt progr.D. tlith thrt. I knor lt's
ectting lato. I apoloelze. l{r. Kluoo.n fron tlcstxood can takc a minutc
and tal k about traffic.
Alan Klugman: Thank you. ily nrmc lc Alan Klueman. I'n a trafflc cngineer -nith the firm of llcst{ood Profccslonel Scrvlccg ln Edcn Prelrlc. llc havcprcparcd a traffic study for thtc proJoct rhlch x!'rc aubmlttlng tonlght. I
have a numbcr of graphlcs nhlch I'vc lunnar izcd on ovcrhcads. Ie ltpossiblc to usc thoac? ltayb. I'll do th.8c out of ordcr bccausc thcy'll
someHhat respond to tho commcntt that rc'vc alrcady hGard tonlght. Bcforef begin my more formal rcmarks I gu.ra I'd llke to t.lk to four apcclficissuis that ucrs brought up tonlghL. Thc chrrt thrt I'm startlng wlth
which would have appcarcd latcr ln our Prcscntation rePr.s.nta theprojected servicc volumcc for thlr rltc durlng thc llfctlmc of thc Program.
As presGntly contractod, lt is , 7 ycay Progrrm running from 1991 thru 199F
and as vou look at the numb€rs you'll B€e groxth in the program throushoutLhat period. Our analysis. uill focus on the flnal year rhlch r.rill be thehighest traffic year, both for the subJcct site and the surrounding area.And to run through this tablc, xhat wc aoe, r{crvc hcard the nunber 8OOmentioned today. If wc look at thc top fllurc there, the avcrage day in1998 He see a number of 4O5. That rcpr€aentc 4OS vahiclcs gcrved on atypical everaEe day throuEhout the courac of the ycar and I bclieve that'swhere the 8oO number ls coming from in that yca, lt does reprcs€nt 4oovehicles into the sitc and 4OO vchicles out of thc aite. Trafflcengineering, ue caII that aOO trlps. It,a 4OS trlp8 thet are being served.
Yo step back a bit and gce rhcre that EOO or that 4OO numbcr comcs from.
As part of their contract Hith th€ Stato of l{lnncsota and lhs proposal forthis project, SC developed a progrem thich involvcs 11 tcsting sites spreadout throughout the metropolitan area. It's a vcry aophlsticatcd programthat they go through. It's obvioualy computer b.sed. tt's based onpopulation statistics and growth. Vehiclc rcglstrations and locations ofthose vehicle registrations and so forth and thc requircd service times,
how far vehicles need to drive to cach of the sites. Uhen all that isanalyzed and rorked through, ttrey dcvcloped a systcm that in order to meetthe requirements of the State guidellnes, the State regucst for proposal . asystem of 11 testing sites spread throughout the Trin Citics uith theprojected service volume in cach of thosc eitcs. So thc 4O5 vehicles thatwe see represents the expect€d amount, maximum anount using the Chanhassensite in the final ycar of the program. I think it,6 inportant to say thatif a question comes up, xill that nurnbcr grog? Can it bc under projectcd?
Because of the flexibiliLy of the distribution of thc eitcs throughout themetropolitan area, for cxample thcre's a site in l{innetonka. l.re're notgoing t'o have people driving from t{innctonka, from St. Paul , fromBloomington, etc. to come into this eitc. fhcrc's not unlimitcd potentialfor growth but movinE down through thoso numbcrc and carrylng thcm out tothe end of the table, the 4O5 vchiclcc rcprcscnta a typlcal average day.
Based on the other sites that SC operates throughout thc country andtypical driver behavior, I thlnk nany of us have done lt ourselves, norepeople tend Lo rencw towards the cnd of a liccnalng pcriod. Towards theend of the month eo the last 5 days of tho month rhcn thcy know theregistration is due. Therefore, lf ne look at thc pcak pcrlod day uc eeean increase that rcprcacnts thc last 5 days of thc aonth. Thcy'rc designsfor internal opcrations aro bascd off of Lhoco numbcrs. AII our analysisfor traffic operatlons on thc rurrounding !rc! arc baccd on that as rlell.If we then carry that doun to thc 10 hour rorklng dly rc scc that the 199afinal year, 632 tripa ln a day r.prog.nta 63 ln. typtcal hour. ff re lookat the peak hour wc ulould hsvc tE. Thet rcprcscnts ! paaklnE
charactcristlc rithin thic alte. I knor you'vG all rcvlcucd nany trafficstudies for various lypcg of dcvclopmcnta and Lt'a vcry lnportant to keepdaily traffic eway from or lGpar.ta the bsuc of dally traffic from pcak
hour traffic. In any trafflc ltudy x. try to .ccurat.ly deflnc nhat is thepeak hour and what componcnt of delly trafftc docc lt roprcacnt? In the
case of the tGsting sltcs and Syatcnc Corporltion has a ucalth of
axperience and background data on that, thcy found thrt thc pcak hour
averages bctt{een 1O:OO a.n. and 11!OO a.n.. It docs not colncid€ xlth thepeak hour of the arca roadraya and in fqct thc pcak lpur of the lrea
roadways is typically about 40* of th6 p..k hour that Hc r{ould sae thcre sorle're talking in thc neiehborhood of about 40 vchlclca scrvcd during thetraditional roaduay pcak hour ehlch lc 4!3O to 5:3O p.n. !o lt's dcfinitcly
complimentary use in that rcspcct. Stcppine back to gomc of the othcr
Planning Commission Heet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 59
Planning Commission Mect I ng
october 3. 1990 - Page 60
issues lhat uJere raised. one morc issue rcaarding rates. The rate of 2
vehicles served per minute. In no nay does that implv that throughout the -day every 2 minutes a vehicle shows uP is served and then leaves. That
states that that is how long it takes to Perform a test. r believe the
number aiproximate 250*-258,1 over crpacity is rhat this slte is because it -is not in fact a case wherc cvery 2 minutes a vehicle drrivas and is serve(
but in the busiest hour in tha busiest timc of the dav in the busiestportion of that hour, the busies! 15 mlnutas that abllity to serve a
vehicle in 2 minutes is rhat makes this sltc function without backing up
onto the adjoining roadways. I bellevc that r.aPonds to some of thequestions. I r.rould just like to vcry quickly, I und€rstand it's late but
very quickly go through some additlonal material rc havc rcgarding Lhe
surrounding area roadway sitcs and t am golng to edit down lrhat I
originally had so certainly I'd ba opcn to questlons on the material I
have slides for some of this so I uill not 8hol, them nou for the sake oftime. Presently I think as re all know this site is servcd in a major
fashion by Th 5 with corresponding accGes from County Road 17 and Audubon
Road. tle've all talked about the signing Program and hou that uiII insureefficient access to the siLe. There's bcen rcference made to Possible
dangerous conditions on Park Drive where it intsreects TH 5. Yes in facLthet is a way that vehicles can access to the site. fn none of our
calculations have we assumed that vchicles had to accoss thaL wav. t^le've -assigned vehicles out to cR 17 and Audubon Road where they'd be signed
knouring that possibly some local people rould usc Park Drive but those
uould be the people familiar with th6 roadway. Using these assumptions infuture traffic growth urhich could appear in the area, in fact I uould like-to show graphics for that. This graphic repreaents existing traffic
volumes in the area. Sources are the tlinnesoLa Highway D6partment, city
data and additional studies that l.te've done in other traffic counts in
studies done in this area. tle can s6e that prcsently TH 5 carries
approximately L2,6oo cars on a daily basis. County Road 17 is at about
4,600 and Audubon Road is at about 2,OOO. If you rccall back to theprevious graphic we showed 558 vehiclcs uslng the eite on a daily basis.If we split those to the two main approach roadways and glven that thissite is centered in a geographic area that it'e due to scrve, lre expect
approximately an even distrlbutlon each xay. l.lc'vc roundcd our 568 to 57o-of course and representing that as tripa ln, rc sce approxlmltely 57ovehicles added !o both County Road 17 and to Audubon Road. That's a totalof north and south so half of that, about 2EO ln cech dircction, In
regards to tha Park Road, cincc thc sltc ls locatcd on Park Road I thinkit's important to remember that the traffic la cplit. Only half of itpasses any one parcel or any one location on Park Road. In tcrms of
roadway widths, Park Road is a 44 foot road prescntly stripcd for one lane-of traffic in cach dircctlon. l,hyb. if rc eo to thc ncxt glidc. That
shows the addition of traffic from the tGstlne 6itc on top of 1998projecled traffic based on thc castcrn Carvcr County ComprchcnsiveTransportation and Lend UBe Study rhich prcparcd trafflc projcctlons allthe way out to the year 2O1O. In sunmary, at thc cnd of thc testing perioo
t-he 7 year contract pcriod for thls Eitc xc fccl that thcr€'8 adequatecapacity on the roadway systcms to acrva thcsc volumcs both rith the groutl
that uill occur due to othcr parccls ln thc arca and this spccific parcel ,uhether it develops as a SystGms control tcsting cite or any oLhcr use lnthis area. l.le want to comm€nt that TH 5 a6 you rccall has bcen cxpanded
from 494 out to Edan Pralrle Road. That x.s complcted this ycar and by
1992 wiII be completed out to and through thc interecetion of CR 17
Planning Commission t"leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 61
providing additional capacity there. There's been comments on operationsat Audubon Road and at Park Drive. In other studios that we've conductedin this area, Lre've anticipated traffic siEnalization on Audubon Road inlhe very near future, ccrtainly by probably 1992 and that will alleviate
some of those concerns. Again in Eummary xa fccl the surrounding roadway
system can carry the traffic. I r,lould llke to talk to one last ltem and ifyou could, it's the very last graphic l,e have thcrc and that rcpresents thecirculation on the sit€ and abillty for the site to handle it's projected
demand- As part of their aubmittal to the State of tlinnesota, SC did avery deatiled compuLer model of uhat xe caII cucing or stacking, servicerates, times in cue, etc. to prove that thcir eite had adequate capacity
and as they sLated, has about 2 t/2 Llnes thc capacity. The model they useis a proprietary model that they've dcvclopcd. Since ue xer6 not able touse that we h,ent !o our strndard traffic cnglineerlng source books uhichalso have cueing models applicable to lny typc of sitc, drive in bank, fastfood restaurant, etc. . tle took the proJ.ctcd 1998 dala for this site. ttetook the busiest t hour on th6 busincst month. The busiest day of thebusiest month. Busiest t hour so this is nhen cveryonc's doing theirregistrations on the last day and He Eaid Hith this glvcn capacity, couldthis site handle the expccted demand? I set my parametars very Lough. Isaid in that busiest t hour hou many cars uould we nced to be able to cueon the site so thaL we had only a 1t chanc€ that at on€ timc during thehour, not for the entire hour but at one tlmc the back-up pould occur inall the lanes to the back cu6in9 area of the eite. If you run thosecal^culations, I did this independently. I cam€ out with the need to store
23 cars on site. That's a maximum that you ldould have to for the given
demand at
could sto
what we tlike this y cllculations on cueing theory,rafflc cnginccring profession, recould Gtor6 trice the maximum
operaLional distance on that site. AE I aald $hen I bcgan my rcmarks, Idid have more matcrial . I did rant to kccp lt brlcf. I hopcful Iy haven'tleft out any questions anybody has but f can addrcaa thoac as trsll.
Erhart! okay, thanks vcry nuch. AI , you had eoncthing gulck?
AI Iverson: Real quick, Hc'. shot.ing tOt grouth tn 7 ycars. Tim, this
morning we werc talkine lbout e lot iora grorth than that- 1Ot grolrth in 7years. r don't bclleve it. Thcir pcak porlod3 arc rlght durlng my breakperiods. f nean this ie rcally goine to bc rough.
Erhart: tlhat, thc 1O:OO to 11:OO? Ir that r.hat you'rc seylnE?
the very peak time. l,,l6asur.,n.nt of thc sitc indicates that were 54 cars at a rathcr gen€rous 25 foot sLorage per car which isypically assume at signalized intersectlons. I think on a site
where traffic is not movlng
close but the point ie, wit
ueing theory acccptGd ln ththe site itself could handl
them even
standard c
shor^r thatanticipated demand at thc end of thc contract period. So again, Eo
summarize the site itself He foel th€ra's rdcguat€ stacking distance and
fast and so forth, urc could stack
hmct
e,
Erhart: Tim, have you got 3omething?
Al Iverson: tle break 1O:OO to 11:OO. tly broek's rlght thcrc and I thinkit's quite cxplanatory. Dlck H.llgtrom'3 brcn rorktng on buildings for 23years. In my opinion is, llly p.rsonal opinlon is that that's raally goingto affecL property vllucs ln our buslncss,
Planning Commission tleet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 62
Tim Raschlager: I guess I have a couple concerns.to worry about a little border around a dumpster.
uncompre he nabl e . To not knou about it I'm also, Iof that actual ly.
One is Ee came tonight
The scope of this isdon't knour what to make
Erhart: Excuse me Tim, that's a good point. l.lho did hr€ notify? Did r.renotify everybody in the Industrial Park?
AI-Jaf f : t^,ithi n 5oo feet of that site .
Erhart: To me thaL's not approprlate.
Tim Raschlager: To me, our invastm€nt in that park, for somsone like ,r= i,-our life. l.le personally for examplE ar.n't unusual to like the radiator
company on the corner there or the two Iittlc shops next to him or thepeople across Lhe street and on a biEger scope Lhase people but ue've
invested a million dollars into that piece of property. our uhole life.
And I love the people that own it. I love Roman and it's a nice area butI'm shocked as I sit here tonight. I'm shocked. I'm devastated. Thefigures on t,he highway, I don'C need to put a piece of rubber across the
road to do a highway count on Park Drive. 3,OOO cars is, it's off a disit.It's off a O. Park Orive is a very quiet road that runs there. There'snot, he had 3,OoO cars there and he had some other ratio on TH 5 that the
numbers make no sense at aII. The people do all walk out on brcak. Infact I envision the day on that park uhen ue take that little pond which isa beautiful site and maybe put a little nalking path around it. Th€re's a-very high density of people there during the day that aren't moving exceptfor to maybe take a lunch break. Take a ualk down the road. Several ofour people take a ualk every day. His very flgurcs pointed out l car
minute on the peak days. He's argulng 2 but hls very figures on the boardare 1a minute- I think the park ras ncver intcnded for that. ].le're
devastaled to have ended up in a mcetinC that rc wcrcn't cxpccted to be
involved in and I think th€re's lack of preparation hsrc on the part of al.of us and I think the seriousness of this mattcr, th6 scope of the maLter
and the inveslments of the people in that neighborhood need to be strongly
considered
Erhart: Thanks Tim. Anything else? Anybody elee?
Dave Kelso: Thank )rou Hr, Chalrman, mcmbers of thc Commiaslon. ily name ir
Dave Kelso. I'm xith the Pollution Control Agcncy. Alco is Barb Jacksonfrom the Pollulion Control Agrncy and we are herc lonlght primarily to make_ourselves available to the Commisslon to rnswer any queations you haveabout the program. I nould like to rcstatc rhat l{r. Palmer said earlierthat it is the Pollution Control Agcncy's poeltlon that the Chanhassenfacility would not opcn untll thc rcat of thc facilltics in our netHork ar-operational . l.rhcn the formal prcccntations arc done I'd bc g!.ad to answerany questions.
Erhart: Thanks Dave. Apprcciate your comi n9 out tonight.
tlildermuth: Are thes6 numbers that ar€ offcred for carbon monoxideconsistent h,ith r,,hat you know to be thc casc? Thcy secm awfully, awfullylow. 5 parts per million. 7 parts per million.
Planning Commisslon l{eet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 63
David Braslau: l.ty name is
cuality studies. Typical Iy
l,1i nneapol is , back i n the 70
Fpm . Nord t.re 're down to abo
Hennepin Avenue. General ly
vld Braslau. I'm the one uho did the airt the carbon monoxide monitor in downlown
i{e were getting readi}gs about just over 93 ppm in dor*ntown l.linneapolis and that.'s onn suburban areas rhen we look at
Da
a
'suticoncentrations next to heavy lnlersectlons, He gct somewhere in the orderof 4 and 5 ppm. So it's rcally for a suburban irea, it's quite a highconcentraCion bug yet it's rell bclou the 9 ppm standard. And again, Ishould point out that the 9 ppm standard is an g hour standard. Is aconcentration tha! you can be exposcd to, that an infcrim porson can beexposed to for 8 hours a day on a rcgular basls uithout any harm and the 1hour concentration is 30 ppm and ue,re far, far bclow that.
l.lildermuth: Do you look at carbon dioxidc and nltrous oxide as well?
David Braslau: No ue don'!. That's carbon dioxide ls not consideredgenerally a micro pollutant. That might be a macro pollutant in terms ofglobal urarming.
tlildermuth: It's just that you can't aurvive ln it right?
David Braslau: But carbon monoxide is actually, in htgh concentrations canbe lethal and therefore it is considered a pollutant.
Erhart: Thanks. Anybody else? If not, I,d onlertain a motion to closethe public hearing for the ordinance amendment.
Emmings: Okay. That wasn't the public hearlng for nhole?
Erhart: I'Il have to open that and close it quick again but I never didopen it for !hat.
Emmings: I'll move that it's close.
El lson: And I 'l I second it.
Erhart: Okay, let's Just tllk about thc ordimnc. change first and make arccommendation on that rnd thcn uc can euickly, lf it'a allorcd, then uecan move quickly onto the conditional uae pcrnit ltcclf. So lrlth that.Iet's see, Joln do you xant to stert?
Ahrens: I just had one qucstlon on th.t. And thig ls .ddrs!8cd to thegentleman...hou oftcn arc thc thlngs that...checkcd for compllancc? Areyou the ones that tcst for compliancc?
oave Kelso: Ouy agency docs a lot of Hork contlnuously throughout theHetroplitan area of carbon nonoxid6. sulphur dioxide. partlculatcs and afew other minor pollutants.
Emmings moved, Ellson scconded to closc thc publtc hcarlner for thc Zonlrurordinancc Amondrncnt to aDcnd s.ctlon 2o-7L4 rDd scction 2H14. Alr votedin favor and the rotion carricd un ni.ourly. Thc publ tc trering raecloscd -
Planning Commission Heet i n9
October 3, 1990 - Page 64
Ahrens: But this is a neu deal we're dealing with now. I nean are you
going out on a regular basis? Onc€ ev6ry 6 months or onc€ a y6ar?
Dave Kelso: HeII r.le hava a permanent in place monitoring that continuously-
monitors. tle don't 90 out to specific locatlona unlcss thcre's an actual
reason to- Unlgss I'm mi sunderstandi ng your gusstlon.
Ahrens: tlell. maybe PauI can ansrer this. Part of the conditional usepermit standards ne have to gGt a State and Fedcral air and noise standardsshall be complied with. Hor,t do we know Lhat?
Dave Kelso: I'm sorry, do ),ou trrean at the propogcd test facillty itself?
Ahrens: .Yes.
Dave Kelso: There is a carbon monoxide monitor .t the facility itself thal
will monitor the indoor levels of carbon monoxide.
Ahrens: But tha!'s
do we know?
like the fox...chicken coop t little bit. I mean how
Dave Kelso: It's a requirement of OSHA.
tlildermuth: But who monitors that?
Dave Kelso: Honilors that?
tJi Idermuth: Yes.
Ahrensr r mean it's not automatically tranamitted to some office at oSHA.
Dave Kelso: Oh I see. No, the data ls collccted and r.rill be stored in a
computer system et the Pollution Control Ag€ncy. Through our normal
auditing procedures r.re'lI be checking that data and that lnformation on aroutine basis.
Ahrens : ]llhat is your routi ne basis for a nsw type of opcratlon?
Dave Kelso: That hasn't becn fully cetabllghcd but rt thia point re
envision visiting cach facillty onco a r.rcck,
Ahrens: And you'rc aoing to bc visiting cach rtation oncc a scck to check -
and make sure that 6tete and fcdcral air and nol.sc ctandarda arc complisd
wi th?
Dave Kelso: No, Ne uill not bc chccklng to aGe lf thc outdoor alr quality
standards or the outdoor noiee etandlrds ar. bclng compllcd rlth. Lle'lI be
checking whether or not the facillty ie running in conjunctlon and in
complianee with the contrect and that the carbon nonoxidc lcvcls in thebuildine are meeting OSHA standards. I think you'rc asklng rhether we're
soins to be monitoring th6 affect of the progrlm and rc'll bo looking atthe affect of the program but thc cpccific carbon rnonoxldc lcvcls at cvcry -test facility that poinL up or doun dcpcnding on the arca.
Planning Commission HGcting
October 3, 1990 - Page 65
Ahrensr Paul , maybe you can Gxplain this. It's
something or am I hearlng...11 :30. Am I missins
Krauss: I think I know Hhat you're drlvlng at. As a condition of theconditional use permit th6y'r€ requircd to matntain a ccrLain quality ofair and noise cmissions and not .xc€sd that. l.lho'a going to monitorthat? The proposal as it now stands is thaL ua could rcquire them to domonitoring if t.le belicve a problcm existe.
Ahrens: How do you know a problcm cxists though?
Krauss: Trnically it's because we're eithcr nade axare of lt throushcomplaint or lt's somcthing that xo cxpcricncG oursclvcs.
Ahrens: So it won't bc a monltorin€t proccas?
Krauss: No. It nill be a rcsponse to an lssue. f auppose one could be
more proactive at Ieast at the outaet and rcquirc a 6 month update or
something Iike that.
Ahrens: I uould think that that uould be necessary. . .bccause that seems tobe the big concern of cveryone. I don't have anythlnE cLse.
l.lildermuth: Flrst of all I'd like to ace aomc calculetions as to how manytons of carbon monoxide uill be producGd. I'd llke to ace some isoplotsfor carbon monoxide concentration around thia immedilto area. I guess I'dIike to hear from a Stata ...ologist rcgardlne thc affccts that differentlevels of carbon monoxide concentration. I'd like to know r.lhat thedirection of the prevailing uind is rnd Hhat thc veloclty ls in thatlocation as to hor., the pollutants lill bc carricd auay. I don't know whatthe investment is in the Systems Control tcating atation but I suspect thatit is nowhere near PHT'E invastment or Paisl€y Park'c invcatmGnt and Ithink our first concern wiLh the lndustrlel park has to be urith thosepeople who are already there and rho are alrordy plying tax.s. On theother hand I do think thaL re nccd to find a location for a vehicle teststation in Chanhassen. Thls Just le not thc location. I don't know ifyou've looked at a number of othcr locatlom or rhat klnd of .ffort you putinto finding a locltion but I don't thlnk this lc one. llc've got anexcellent industrial park. urc'vc attrectcd .oirG flrst clasr occuprnts inthat park and f lould not Hent to do aomcthing that lppcrr3 to bc socontrary to their ulshss. In tcrmc of ordinancc changing, ln tcrns of
zoning changing and I don't knor hor to do that xlthout tcttim romsthingllke this into our cxistlng lnductrlal park. Bualncss Hlghray .nd IOP seemto be logical placee for a faclllty llkc thla to bc locetcd. The problem
is hour do we pass an ordlnencc to rllor{ thet but kccp thcn out of eparticular location thcy'rc looklnc at end kocp thcr out of thi3 partlcular
industrial park. Thlt's thc qucgtton. I thtnk a faclllty likc thic should
be immediately adjacent no morc than probably 2OO yards frorn a naJorarterial . I think it ought to bc v.ry rcadlly acccssible. tt ought to be
near a signaled lnt€rgcction. I agrGc ltlth. I don't rccell your name but I
agree urith you. If therc haEn't becn a fatality up thcrc on Audubon, thereprobably uill be aoon or around that ninl etolf courcc. ThoB€ lrcdefinitely problem .rcas. If the tcst fecllity has to 9o lnto the locationthat !e're looking at, t thlnk onc of tha conditiong absolutcly has to bethat there's a slgnal on TH 5. ...I think that our homcrork has reatly
Erhart: Okay, thanks Jim. AnnctLc?
Ellson: Actually I'm concern.d about thc air quality. I Picture this, you
knour we were talking last timc about tho drivc thru at llcDonald's or
something lik€ thet and I wls thc onc bcforc that thought thc Busincss
Highxay was probably thg mo6! approprlatc Just bacause of thc convenience
they were trying to gGt and thc in and out acc.ss and thlngs likc that but -the more information that'3 comlng forward, thc mor. I'm lcss oPPosed to it
being here. I guess I don't BGe a lot of homcwor k on the other side.
l.laybe before it gets to city Council therc would bc but thcre's a lot of
fears that haven't been vcrificd and maybc f rould euggest that those
opposed try to get more facts before lt
one In
exampl
ser ved
last t
like a
being
Delaware h,as just an cmisaion onl
es of emission only Lype tcstlng t
the community well. I nccd more
cocs to City Counci I . l,laybe Lhaty and re could find Eome concretehat has you knor failcd and hasn't-of a shadow of a doubt than I had
vo I ume
cee that
can get -
ime. Before I was totrlly against lt bccause I pictured the
l,'lcDonald's you know breakfast mcal or rhatcvcr and I didn'there. Nour the)z'rc sa)zing th€ evcragc uait ls 6 cara and you
more than that at a l.tcDonald's Gasy so it Just docsn't acem like it's quitr
as much but this would be a conditlonrl uac and rhcn I look uP uhat we
allor.r right nou,, I can aee the cxact came cooplaintE by thc same people in-the industrial parks complaining if lt' sas a motor frclght tcrnrinal going
in which is perfectly allowed right nou. Thcy louldn't xant People walkinguith freigh! vehiclcs around and yet lunbcr yrrd rc aay r.. can do
concrete mixing plants bre sry wc could put tn rithout thcm cvcn having any
say so I don't Lhink this ls.so ovcrly dlffcrcnt than lomo of the ones that
obviously be complaints for thc cxact 3amc rclsons. I don't quite
undersLand the id€a of peoplc asklng qucstlons and I don't knou that this -
would necessarily incrcasc that. I think lf e pcreon ic going hcre andthey're waiting any$ay, that probably rould bc Hhcrc thcy'ra gctting their
information as rell as thcir bathroom atop ao I gucaa t don't ecc that as p
big negative but I'm lcaning tolard. alloulng lt rorc bccauac nor aII thedata's coming in and the proparty valuGs hrvcn't bccn provcn to go down ano
unless I slart acelng morc thineg that aay that thcy havc, and egain maybe -we'Il find thst out by City Councll but I donrt rcc lt in front of ne thatthe fears are confirmed but I would rugg.tL that thet kind of homcwor k be
done before it gets thcrc. I think lt rould bc norc rcrdlly tllor.red. Soat this point I'm lcanlng touard .pprovine lt althoueh I thlnk the
Business Highuay ie pcrfcct but I'm loce oppoecd to thc IOP but t rould bcif I could se€ mor6 cvldcnce. I nGan f Juct nccd aorc rhador of a doubtthat it hurt 2 or 3 pcople'B propGrty'e thcn I'd be ell for probablr
allowing it only ln the busincss hlehuay but I'm not .cclng anything that
says that except for pcoplc that thlnk lt's eolng to hlppcn end thcn not
very much proof. So that'6 rhcrc I'n at. Klnd of on th. fcnce.
Erhart: Thanks AnncttG. Stavc.
PIanni n9 Commission l.lcct I ng
October 3. 1990 - Page 66
been done here in locating thi6 thlng. I'm not convinccd that a facilitv
Iike this doesn't prcscnt a hcalth hazard and I think that there Er€ some -stretegic issues that you look at ln siting somcthing like this. Like for
example pollutant isoplots and prcvalllng xlnd vclocitiss and things Iike
thet. You look at the same klnds of things Hh.n you sitc aomething like
this that you do when you gitc a pouar plant or a acrag. trcatment Plant
and that hasn't been donc.
PIanning Commission l,l€etin9
October 3, 1990 - Page 67
Emmings: trell this isn't easy. l.lc've hcard a lot of stuff hcre tonightand some of it was kind of silly I think but to me therc's only, and thereI'm referring to people rorricd about pcople coming to use their bathroom.I don't regard that as being a vcry substantlv€ comment but you knou italmost fits in the BH but that's highly oriontcd commercial dcvelopment.That's what the lntsnt statemont aayc and thls really l8n,t that. And theoffice industrial int€nt aection, Lrhcrc'a th€ IOP?
EI lson: Here .
Emmings: The IOP is large acal.e light tndustrial Bhich Just doesn,t
seem to fit and commercial planncd dcvclopmcnt and I don't .ven knouthat is. I've never really lookcd at thet one befor€ but as AnDGttG
when you read down through the usca t.la pcrmitted and the conditionalwe've designated, it does kind of sccm to flt in both those araas so
qui te
uhat
said,
usesIthi nk ue'v
urhen you c
my copy to
u nder sta ndsiuff. He
room tonigthink just
etollJiit
'sht
a
argeted the right onas end I think it can 9o ln ciLher. Andect all the data by thc way that Jim uants, make surc you give
m because I have intcrcst in rcading it. .I wouldn'tanyh,ay. I assume that our city enEineer can cveluate thatgoing to have to for mc bccause f can't. trhaL I hear in Lhisis the same thing ue hcar ovey and over again and that's Istandard problcm in a developing community, Here ete've got
neighbors who are cont€nt to have the propcrty ncxt door be cmpty or Justlike theirs but r€ally don't uant lt to be diffcrent and He he.r that h,hen
we do rural subdivisions - The fermcrs don't want the houses in there andthen the big lot developmants come in and th6n thcy Hant a smallcr lot
development next door and tha folks with the blg lots don't $ant the smallIots and it's just endless and nobody g.cms to rcalizc that If the zoninghadn't been changed in the first place, thcy Houldn't have bcan able tobuild there either. It's a[Eo kind of amusing that rverybody that,sasainst everything here tonight so flr has pilcd up dead bodies on thehighway. This is the third one rhcrc rc'vc had dcad bodics on the highuayand maybe they're right. I don't knor.r but it accms to be one of thc mostpopular tools for trying to arguc agalnst romcthing. t xas lmpressed bythe things that the staff found out from othcr comnunitiGa that have thesefacilities. That's real mcaningful end rhat thcy found out thcrc Has th6yhad problems uith these placcs for thc flrrt ycar end thcn things lrcren'tso bad. The other thlng th.t thcy found out fron thcsc othar govcrnmentalunits is that this particullr outflt, Sy8tamB Control hrs bcan v.ry easy touork uith. t'm quoting from thc ataff r.port, 'thcy novc fast to rcsolve
and eliminate problcms lnd arc rcadily .v.lhbla to rork lrtth Statc andCity staff to mcet damands' ro that'! lnprcarlvc to rte. Thcy aound likethey'll be good neiEhbore .vcn though you don't xant thcm end in fact havethreatened to sue the clty ovcr...xhlch f thlnk ls a llttlc strong. But in
any case, to me there'G onc irsuc and that't trefflc. That's thc onlything that s€€ms to mc to bc r aub8tantlva tlsuc and .o far rc'vc only
heard their side of that and nhat I hcar thcro 8oundr rc.Gonrblc to me. Itdoesn't seem like it rill ovcr burdcn thc loads or .nything clao in th.tarea so f have no problcm .ithcr xlth thc, t knor I'n suppoccd to betalkins about the condition urc parnlt but thcgc thlngs rc.n to 96t uoventogether and you can't rcally takc thcm epert 80 I xould aupport theconditional us€ permit. Thc on. thlng I don't llkc about thcm, I franklydon't like (f). First of.ll lt .ay. thc Strtc end Fcdcral air and noise
standards uill bc complicd rith, tlcll thcy don't hevc rny cholcc lnyxay.
Planning Commission He6t i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 68
Krauss: n'o, that's not true. I mean you shouldn't exceed those standards -but things occaslonally do.
Emmings: But th€y have to uhcther He say they do or not. our aaying that -they have to doesn't add anything to the fact that they have to.
Krauss: tJhat lre'rc saying is that ue xant to be in the loop Bo thet eJe can
have an additional ray of monltoring
Emmings: So you xant to be eble to cnforce lt from hcre?
Kreuss: Yeah. f m6an the PcA'a a vory cooperatfve agsncy nith these typer-of issues but they deal rlth a v.ry large area and at times a community cen
act more, be more responsive.
Emmings: The one thins is if problems are found to oxlst, the property
ourner is required to pay for tosting deemad to be required by the City toclerify the situation. I don't know how eomebody clse said, hou are you
going to know you have a problem until you test and find out? It seemskind of around in a circle. I don't understand it rcal well. That's the
only one that seemed kind of odd, otherwise I support it.
Erhart: okay. In dealing h,ith the ordinance. I gueas I don't like tablingthinss but I think this ls one that it does everybody Justlce by tabllngit. I started out pretty neutral on this and I guess I shouldn't have beer-
running a business in the industrial park. Since that time I've bccome
vey'y strongly opposed to having these types of uees in the industrial park.
And I say park, I see this as an issue of the Chanhassen Lakes Industrial
Park as opposed to perhaps what you view it as Just lnother use and where
you bes! fit it. I think the cityr we put together th€ Chanhassen LakesIrrdustrial Park and
r-estr ict ions and ule
was going to be a pa
then changing that,
any ordinance changein that park. I mean that would be the most unfair thing I could imagineto si! here and not have a complete public hcaring rithout inviting all thepeople that are in th6 industrial park. Evcrybody eot thc gamc cales pitct-
about r.rhy they ought to 9o in thc industrial park and rhat they couldexpect in there. Sccond thing ls, tf thcy do cone ln and xe'vc hoard leroand now I guess I'11 throw my ring in therc too, I'll tekc it back. I'mnot a buildlng or.rner ao f uon't aay lt from that ltandpoint but nhen you
hear from the cxisting tcmntg and thc cxisting olrnera in that plrk thatthey object to e new use, I don't thlnk, I dlcagrce xlth Anncttc. I don'tthink it's up to thc building orn.ra and ths peoplc in that park to prove -to us that it's a non-compatible uae. lt'8 up to th.m, lt'e up to this n6!
use to prove that thc)r'rc a mcmbcr of thic park. A .ombcr of thisassociation and I think by the facL that ue've got romo p.oplc and I would -venture to say that thGrc'a not nany pcoplc in the park are vcry axare of
what ure're talking about doing, le that it's not ecccptable and I thinkwe're going against thc commitmcntG that xe'vc nrde to thc uscrs andexisting people ln thc park by making a change that they'rc against. tthink this is not, ra'v€ had aomconc come up herc and tcll us that this isnot a commercial use. It docsn't mak. rny differancc shcther thc Stato'spaying for the scrvlce or thc pcrson'a rriting a check. Somsbody's paying -
his
nd
e
ody
r.re defined it as an entlty rith certaln uses andsold i.t to bus i ncssas coming into Chanhassen thatrk uith certain cxpectations. I think golng backin the first place I don't think that rc should mathat d6als xith that park uithout notifying every
t
a
k
b
PJ.anning commission tleeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 69
for some individual to drive in and get a service. Is it any differentthan a gas station? Is it any differant than a pos,t office? Uould you puta license center in the middle and right smack in the middle of anindustrial park? I think it's clearly a commercial use. It's people comein' get a service and leave and it's not like some industrial parks whereyou have a gas station that the intont of the gas station ls to serveger'erally the people in that park. This uee is intended to aarve people
from a broad area. And so it is clearly in my mind a commercial use andlends itself specifically for the BH district. Dealing with the traffic inmy mind, that's not Lhe biEgesL issue. It's the park issuc but a biggerissue is the p.eople walking around in there. Nor.r I think xe made somemistakes in this park and one is not putting sidenalks in but our employeesand my u:indow faces out there and rssentially during the middle of the daypeople are walking up and down that street. That is their, you knou thepark has no restaurant in it. Okay so people like, I assume theseemployers they have lunchrooms and then pcople go in and bring their bagIunches or machines and then they 9o out walking for their half hour or a5minules. People are walking on the strects. Th6re's no sidenalks thereand I would recommend that in the future for industrial parks we do put
sicler^alks in. So adding a whole bunch more traffic at this point I Lhinkdoes interfere with that and will significantly change the r.lay this park isused and so I oppose it for that reason. On the other hand the BH districtby it's rrature is designed to use retail traffic. It's got the stopli.shts. It's designed to deal nith the kind of lraffic that comes r.rith thecor,inrercial use and this is clearl)r a commercial use and the traffic use Ithink proves that out. I think the point ls, you know this is a pollutions'-ation but once you allob, that in the park, as 6oon as th€ State regulateswe've got to have a safety inspection and they come ln here, you,re notgoing to say no to the safety inspection. I mean they're all somewhat the
s6rne use and so I think that, Bomeone mcnLioned that uell pollutionstations don't require because they only rcquire 2 minutes and the safetystations is longer, that argument actuall), supported my opposition to thisthirrg. In general I've been in this park for 5 years. Going on 6 year"s
and initially the first buildinEs that came in the park Hcre noC thegreatest. Over the years as the park h!s, I don't knor if the City's donea good job selling the park to peoplc or lrhet€ver, the cuality has improveddramatically in the neh,er buildings thlt have gone in. Th€ PHT building isreally beautiful . Som€ of the things arc Lmproving. llc do have some oldbuildings across from me Iike the Auto Unlimitcd bullding and Bo forth,they don't fit anywhere and I thlnk thia ls a stcp backuards in ourindustrial park to put in essentially a Bpecialized gas station. LastlyI also look at this as a Cemporary u6c and I think thcrc'r a rcal dangerthat you could put thie tcmporary, thia :pccific aas station in. It'scalled a service station and lt ron't quitc offend .3 nany pooplo but uherethis use aII of a suddcn they loae their contract or somchow all of asudden you have a bulldlng standing r,rith a bunch of overhead doors in ourindustrial park. l.lh€re you can lcasc othcr office buildings likc ours andIIc's Lo other people qulckly, this le a vcry spcclfic ugc building and Idon't think if it's use discontinucs, yourrc not going to lGasc it toanybody. It's golng to ait therc until aomcone dcvclops that, really tearsit down and does aomcthing else rith it- So I think it's an lssue. Ithink we have a commitment to thc pcople ln the lndustrlal park. Ccrtainly
have a commitment to notlfy thgm at lcast bcceuec you're deallng withsomething that rre sold thes6 pcoplc and rlght now ec're talking aboutchanging the product and the pcoplc aay thcy don't rant it. The currcnt
Planning Commission l,le6ting
October 3, 1990 - Page 70
participants in this agreement don't l,ant it changcd, And so I'm opposed -to it. l,lith that I guess I uould lnvite ! motlon on the issue dealing r.ritlthe, oh there's one last it€m. The staff had an argum.nt that we don't
have any room in lhe BH district, thcrcforc H. ouEht to put it in the IOP.l.lell, you know we don't have any r oo{n in thc lndustria} Parks eilher.
Ahrens: I'lI move that the Planning Commission rccommcnd approval of
Zon-ing ordinance Amendmant allowing vchicle te6ting stations as conditionaJ-
uses in the IoP and BH distrlcts as Btat.d cxccpt for (g)...to readvehicles, second line, vehicles stacking in firc lancs, plrklng arcas andother dr ives .
Emmings: Second.
E)'hayt: okay, the motion's been made and accond€d thlt He approve the
change in the ordinance for both IOP and BH districts. fs th.r€ any
di scussion?
Ahrens moved, Emmings eecondod that thc Plannlng Conoicslon rccoomend
approval of zonimr Ordinancc Aocndncnt allorlrg vchicla tcetlng stations asconditional uees in thc f@ and Btl di3trictr arcndcd to rced ag follous:
Section 2o-293, Conditlonal tlc P.ralt Standardr, lg addcd ( atcnded ) to
read as follons:
Emissions Control Testing Stations - Authoriz.d to undertake cmissions
and./or safety monitoring required by the Strt. of l{inncsota provided that:
the oporation is under contract egrc.mcnt rlth tho St.to of tlinnesotato provide thase cervlces;
no repairs are perforned on th€ altc;
no gas or parts arc cold on thc aitc;
no outdoor ltor.go of vchiclcc or roletcd ;atcrlele;
no diesel tosting to bc allorcd tt thc alte;
state and federal air and nolse ctandards rhall be complied rith. Ifproblems arc found to cxlct, thc propcrty ouncr rhall bc rcquired topa), for any testing deemed to b€ rcqulrcd by thG Clty to clarify thesituation;
a
b
c
d
e
f
Krauss: No, He're runnlng shor!.
Erhayt: okay. so to me that, rhen re look at our Comp Plan rhich ue're
doing right now, if we don't have room for thls klnd of Lhing, are re going
to have this and r.re're going to havc a quick oi] chango thinc, I mean we
have just, the community and I agrco Llth th€ Pollution Control people. tl(
have needs for these things. lle have to flnd provisions for them in theright place and this is not thc rlght placc. Anyla)r, I'lI entertain a
motion for that from an)rbody uho'd llkc to strike out.
Planni ng Commission l,lcoting
October 3, 1990 - Page 7L
all vehicle stacking shalI be provided on-site in designated lanes.Vehicles stacking in fire lanes, parking arcas and other drives shallbe prohibited.
Section 2O-aL4 - Conditional Uccs ln the Industrial Office Park Diatrict isamended to read:
(rS; Emission control tcstlng Btations.
Section 2O-7t4 - Conditlonal
anended to read:
uscs in th6 BH. Highnay Business Oistrict is
(9) Emission control tcatlng rtations.
Ahrens, Emnings, and Ellgon votcd ln favor. l{ildorruth rnd Erhlrt votcd inopposition and the notion carilcd rlth a notc of 3 to 2-
Erhart: Jim, do you feel you nccd to add any iorc comments on yournegative vote? I don't cither. So rith that thcn I think r,re,ll have tomove ahead to the conditional usc permlt and prellminary plat. I.Il openthe public hearing. If wc don't have, if thcrc'a nothingr neu f'd ]ike tomove on uith it. No ncw commcnts then rlr ask for a motion to crose thatoubl i c hear i ng .
Ellson moved, tlildermuth ccconded to close thc public hcarinc for theConditional Use Permit and Prclirinery PIat for thc proFlrty zonrd
f OF, fndustrial Office P.rk rnd located at thc intcrc.ction of park Roadand Park Place - All votcd in favor and thc rotion carrlcd. Tho publichearing wae closed -
Erhart: Steve, do you Hant to start xith that onr.
Emnings: I don't have anything additional .
Erhart: Annette?
Ellson: No
Erhart: Jim? Joan?
I
Ahrens: l.lell I only spokc to thc conditional ucc pcrnlt bcforc and I Justwanted to say that, or thc zoning ordinancc amcndmcnt. That rc asked thasepeople to come in rith this lnfornation end thcy dld lt end from shat theyprcsented to us, f can't acc hor rc crn dcny tham. t{c dldn.t ect anyevidence at all, concrctc cvldcncc from thc pcopl. rho rcrc opposcd to ltand J rgree xith Stcvc thorc rcre a lot of rllly rtetcmcntc ladc that Idon't think we should cvcn consldcr. A lot.of .t.t.nantr thet I think are,I mean I understand the conc.rn8. Thcy don't Lrnt the park changed but Ithink that, I don't thlnk th!,a ie a brand ncE urc thet is so offensive that
He should deny it. I think lt'g a n.H type of e uac and rc'vc never hadthis in l.linncsota bcforc but I thlnk that it cen fit rlthln the ordinance.I think we should rccommcnd rpproval . Th.t's lt.
Erhart: okay. I gua8s givcn that rc'rc eolng to pcrait this uee in thcIndustrial Park, I oucns I hav. no, I ican I thLnk thc plan la fine. It,s
PIa nn i ng Commission l,leet in9
October 3, 1990 - PaEe 72
a sood plan. I just think it chould be comerhere else but if it's apermitted use, then I guess I gupport it as weII. Is thero a motion?
Emmings: I'Il move the PlanninE Commission recommend aPProval of Site Plan
*9o-9 as shown on the site plan dated August 10, 1990 subject to th€
conditions contained in the staff rcport.
Ahrens: Second.
Erhart: Any discussion?
Enmings noved, Ahrcna sccondcd to approv. Sitc Plen l9O-9 !8 aholn on the -
plan dated August 10, 1990 subJoct to thc follelm cotditions:
1. lhe applicant must providc roof toP cquiPmcnt screening for aPProval b)-staff. Screening musL be of materlals compatiblo uith the building.
The epplicent must submit revised screening for the masonry trash
enclosures compatible uith the buildine cxtcrlor and additlonal
landscaping around the proposod dumpsters.
3 The applicant must obtain a gign pcrmit Prlor to erccting any slgnage
on site.
The applicant must revise ths landscaplng plans as r.commended in thereport to provide improved scrcening. Providc staff wlth a detailed
cost estimate of landscaping to be ueed in calculatlng thc requiredfinancial guarantees. These guarantces must be postsd prior tobuildi ns permit issuance.
The applicanL shall obLain and comply xith alI conditions of the
tlater shed Distr ict.
Type III erosion control shall bs uccd along Park Road and added to the
north and east portion of the site. Slopcs steapcr than 3:1 will
require r.rood fiber blankets and TypG fII crosion control . Theapplicant's englneer shall aubmlt 10 ycar ttorm flox calculations forthe sitc. This nay rcaulatc tha location of the cbnncction to thcexisting storm aeucr facility.
A concrete industrial drivcsay apron xlth a mlninum rldius cut of 20feet shall b6 con3tructsd at th. anLrance off of Park Road.
Revise thc plans to providc .n .dditlonel 5 foot .ctb.ck on thc xcstproperty lins uhilc cxtcndine thc bcrn and landccaplne to thc north.
All votcd Ln favor orc.pt Llldorntth rho opporcd end tho rotLon cerriodrith e votc of 4 to 1-
t"lildermuth: The reasons prcvlously rtetcd.
5
6
7
I
EIhert: Okay. Do xe havc onc aotlon on thc prcliminary pl.t .a BGll?
Erhart: The raason opposed?
Planning Commission l{eet i ng
October 3, 1990 - Pege 73
Krauss: No.
Emmi ngs: t,e 've got to withdraw the or iginal. .
Krauss: Yeah,
Erhart: okay, so that takas care of thatCity Counc i L iasuc and I 9ucs6 this lill go to
Emmings: No, re've got 2 norc to go. On pagc 7, Lle'vc got to do III andIV.
Erhart: tlithdrah,t original sitc plan.
Emmings: I'll move the Plannlng Comorission rccommend r.tlthdrawal ofapproval of Site Plan 89-8 for the Rome Office building concurrently withthe approval of Site PIan *9O-9. Thc applicant should fila a notice ofwithdrawal against the property !t Crrver County.
Ahrens: Second,
E I lson : l.Jhat is this one doing? I 'm confused,
Emmings: tle're uriEhdraHing the sito plln that ras approved for thatproperty previously.
EI Isorr: O kay ,
Emrnings moved, Ahrans ascondcd that tha Plenning Coamleclon rccortncnd! th€aithdraual of approval of Sltc PI.n No. 89-8 for thc Roro Offlcc Buildinc,concurrently xith the rpproval of Slto Plan No. 9O-9. Thc applicant chouldfile the notice of rlthdralrl egainct tho propcrty rt C.rv.r County. AIIvoted in favor and the [otlon carrld unanirously.
Erhari: t,ould someone like to mak€ a motion on the Conditional Use pernit?
Emmings: I'll nove the Planning Commi8aion rccommcnd epprovrl of theConditional Use Permit for the vchlclc tcatlng sCation subjoct toconditions contained in the Gtrff r.port .ltcrlng (c) to conform to the
changes made by Joan. Just [n that rccond acnL.ncs.
Erhart: The wording?
Emmings: Y€ah.
Erhart: Is there a Becond?
Ahrens: Second.
Emni nga mov.d, Ahrcrt eecorrdcd that tha Phnnlng Corrirglon rccouondapproval of thc corditlonrl u.. p.rrtt for thc nchlclc t.!tl n9 .tltloneubject to thc follorinc condltlon :
1. Compliance Eith conditionr of Slt. Pl.n t9O-9.
Planning Commission |l€et i ng
October 3, 1990 - Page 74
2
Elhart: Okay, that's the cn
City Council on Sharmin, whain.
Emission control testint Btations - Authorized t
and/or safeLy monitoring regulrcd by the Stete o
t hat l
all vehicle stacking shall be provided on-sit
Vchicles stacking in fire lanes, parking areashaII be prohibited.
oufH ndertake emissions
inncsota provided
n deeignated Ienes -nd other dr ives
a the operation is under contract agrccm€nt Blth the State of
tlinnesota to provide thcse aervlces;
b. no repaire arc pcrforned on the gite;
no gas or parts arc aold on ths slt€i
no outdoor storage of vehiclcs or rclated naterialsi
no dicsel testing to bc alloucd at the sit€;
state end federal air and noise standards shall b6 complicd hrith.If problems are found to cxist, the property ouncr ahall be
required to pay for any tcstlng dcemed to bc rsquircd by the Cityto clarify the sicuation;
c
d
e
f
s eisa
dord f that and now can Iate? October 22nd.
say that r.ri I I go
okay, thanks for
to
com i ng
PUALIC HEARING:
PRELII{INARY PLAT TO R€PLAT A FORTION OF tr{ OUTLOT IN CI{AI*IASSEN }iALL
ADDITION AND PLACEI{ENT OF TARKET BCX,.T.EVARD- TI{E PROPERTY IS LOCATED JUST
SOUTH AND [.'EST OF CI{AIU{ASSEN BOII- AID I{ORTH OF TI{E SOO LII{E RATLROAD
TRACKS. EASY RIDER ADDITIO{.
Vice Chairmen Erhart callcd thc publlc hoaring to or&r.
Erhart: Does any comnisslon mcmbcr nscd a gtaff report on thls?
Apparently not. f3 th€r. any public i trput? t8 tharc eny lrsuc.
Kreuss: It's a good plat. Plcasc rpprovc lt.
Enmings: oh, thc Clty'6 th. applicent?
Erhart: Thet ought to n.kc you ru.piclous. Okay, eny public lnput?
Jay Johnson: Southocat ilctro'B rll for lt.
Enmings novcd, Ellson sccondcd to clocc thc public hcrrlnc. All vot.d lnfavor and th€ notion carrlcd. Thc nrbllc hcrr ing rrs cloecd.
All voted in favor €xcept lJildormuth rho'e vote ras eilent and the motion
carried-
Planning Commission Meeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 75
Jay Johnson: You're selling it to Southrcst llotro for a buck.
Emmings: oh no. tlhat do you thlnk of that?
Jay Johnson: t,lell as a Southwcst cero Conmlssloncr, lt'e a pratty good
deal . As a City Council, I'd raisc lt to t.n bucks.
Emmings: Okay, re Hant tuo bucks. I'II pay a buck and a half .
Erhert: Is there a notion?
Emmings: I'll move the Planning Commkclon rccommcnd lpproval ofPreliminary Plat S9O-8 for E.sy Ridcr Addition as Ghoh,n on tha plat deted
September 6, 1990 Hith the conditlon containcd in the staff rcport.
El lson: And I 'l I second it .
Erhart: Any discussion?
Emmi ngs: Oh discussion. I hope to hell thlt isn't going to bc called
Bourling Al ley Road.
Erhart: Nor that's in the lrrit. up.
EIlson: That's mentioned on therc that th€y had a eontesL.
Emmings: Okay fine. That xas my only obJcction to the uhole thing.I like Bob,ling Pin.
Emmings moved, Ellson aecorrdcd thrt tha PlannlrE Comisrion rocooncndapproval of Prclirinary Plat l9O-8 for Eecy Ridcr Addition 18 .horn on theplat dated Septeob€r 6, 1990 rtth thc follortng condition:
1. outlot C and the portion of qrtlot A u..d for tho tx,l8 ahcltcr .hall b.
ehown as p.rt of 'Borline Allcy' Road right-of-ray -
All votcd in favor and thc rotion c.rrlod.
APPROVAL OF ]{Irtf,JTES: Emmines movcd, Erh.rt aeconded to rpprovc thc Minutesof the Plannlng Commission mocting d.tad Saptcmbcr 19, 1990 as prcscnted.AII voted ln favor exccpt Ahrcns, l.tl ldcrnuth and Ellaon rho abctaincd andthc motion carricd.
CITY COUNCIL I.IPOATE:
Erhart: tle road lt- Is tharc any guoctlolrt on that?
Kreuss: I hav€ on
Planning Commissio
Emmi ngs: t,lho?
Krauss: t|6ll Jim
ctnt hing on thc updrtc. llc have aomc tcrm6 on thchat arc up.
I thlnk for onc .
Pianni ng Commission l,leeting
October 3, 1990 - Page 76
Ellson: I think mine is too.
K)'auss: Is it yours too? I think so. YouIike to do. I think ne're obllgated to put
to see what kind of people lrc havc rcapondi
ahould think about rhat you'd
an ad in the paper pretty quick
ng
Emmings: Do you advertise lf pcoplc rent to r.-up?
Krauss: I think Counciluoman Olmlcr's dirGctlon ras th.t xG go ah6ad and
advertise, yeah.
Erhart: That's the way le've bccn doing lt.
Jay Johnson: Councilrdoman Dimler's plan Haa to start advartislne in about
September and have everything donc xcll bcforc thc t€rm ras up vcraus doing-it after the term.
Krauss: So rde're going to put en ad in thc papcr shortly.
Emmings: Let's get the meeting donc.
ErhErt: Anything else PauI?
Ahrens movsd, Ennings 8ccondcd to edJotrrn thc raetlng - AII votcd in favor
and thc notion carricd. Thc rcctl ne r.! .djour ncd .t 12:OO rldnlght.
Subro i tted by PauI KYauss
Planning Oirector
Prepared by Nann Opheim
Jay Johnson: l,ly idee uas Lo cxtcnd thc tcrms to Juno so that it's not a
brand neu City Council making thc lppointmcnt. I ras doing the samething. I was making appointmcnts tho first day I uas on the Council and so-
was the last Council. I b,ant to changc lll th€ terms of all the
commissions to June instead of Jrnuary. Ectter time to considcr it.
!,IEUOR,ANDT'}i
fo: Planning Conmission
FRou: Paul Krauss, Planning Director
DATE: october 11, 1990
suLT: Report fron Planning Director
At the city council neeting on tlonday, october 8th, the following
actions were taken:
CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
The city Council voted to establish a Senior Connission. This
is an outgrowth of the Senior Needs Task Force which reported
back to the City council regarding the needs of seniors in the
community. Copies of the report are available from staff as
requested. The report concludes that there is a wide variety
of needs that is growing in the conmunity including
transportation, recreation, congregate dining and specialized
housing. It also found that the nunber of seniors (over 55)
in the cornrnunity is quite large and is growing and is roughly
10-128 of our population. It was believed that the
establishurent of a Senior Co'nmission would be the Dost
appropriate nethod by which recolDmendations could be made to
tne city Council regarding attempts to deal with these issues.
Rednond Site Plan Parking Improvenents. As the Planning
Corumission is aware, the city Council reviewed this iten at
their last neeting and acted to approve the off-site parking
inproveuents in accordance with the reconmendations of staff
and the Planning Connission. That is the inprovenents on the
Lotus carden property were approved without variance, uhereas,
two variance! uia Eeen originally requested. The council
continued action on the on-site parking inproveroents, asking
staff and the applicant to further investigate.
staff reported that rre had net with the coo of RedDond to
discuss two possible uays of resolving the natter. Rednond
had proposed purchasing a city owned wetland covering 1.6
acres on adjacent property. Although the wetland would not be
altered through this acquisition, it was believed that the
1
2.
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Planning Conmission
October 11, 1990
Page 2
expanded lot area would elininate the need for a hard surface
coverage variance that had been requested.
Staff was sonewhat unsure as to how to reconmend on this
proposal since we believed it net the letter of the 1aw, ifnot the intent of the 1aw. We encouraged Rednond to seek
purchase of the adjacent Lotus Lawn and Garden property. They
infonoed us that they had nade several attenpts to do so but
were rebuffed by the owner. The City Council was receptive to
the sale of the property to Redmond. Staff indicated that aprice could not be agreed on at staff level, and therefore, it
hras reconutrended that the City chose an appraiser, Rednond
chose a second appraiser and both appraisers together chose athird and that the City and Rednond rrould agree ahead of tineto be bound by their deternination. This solution was
agreeabfe to all parties including the city council. There is
as of yet no clear gTuidance as to where the funds would bespent. The city council rrouLd have to make deterninations onthis in the future.
The second option with regards to the parking 1ot setback
variance that had been requested is being dealt with based
upon a suggestion by Councilnan Johnson that the ordinance be
amended to adopt a perfon0ance oriented approach to parking
setbacks. staff supports this process which basically says in
exchange for design freedon to have a reduced setback that thesite plan would be held to a higher standard to achieve thegoal of screening the parking 1ot. The city council acceptedthis proposal and granted Redmond a variance to go ahead and
proceed with the application in light of tine constraints.Staff was directed to rrork with the Planning Conmission to
develop a perfornance based parking setback ordinance. Staffwill process this as quickly as possible. We viLl also bebringing along a related proposal to establish the buffer yard
concept discussed in the Conprehensive Plan as an ordinance sothat as the UUSA line is expanded, ue may require property
owners to create the buffer yards being proposed by the
ordinance.
The City Council approved a sunnary ordinance for publicationfor the Surface Water Utility District but rras unable to agreeas to funding levels for the progran. There was a 2-2 split
whereby two City Council persons supported funding the progranat 1008 of the funding level proposed by staff and two othersproposed funding at 60* of the level proposed by staff. Thisnatter renains unresolved and it is like1y that it rrill not beresolved until sorne tirne after the election after which it can
be brought back to the City Council for final resolution.
3.
Planning Connission
october 11, 1990
Page 3
4. Revisions to the llarket Square site PLan. As the Planning
Connission nay be aware, the uarket square site plan and
developnent program has been going through some significant
changes of 1ate. The applicants were given a deadline toperfonn under the terms of the HRA developnent contract orelse the project would not proceed. The originally proposed
22,OOO square foot Super Value store has been elininated. Itis being replaced by a 35,000 square foot Festival !!arket,which is a subsidiary of Rainbow and cateway Foods. The
market has additional capacity to grow to 45,000 square feetas demand requires. The changes to the site plan arerelatively ninor. Additional parking rras created by using 9foot wide stal1s rather than 10 foot wide stalls as originallyproposed. There are virtually no other changes to the sitep1an. Exterior elevations need to be prepared for theFestival llarket. The iteD rras approved in such a banner thatif staff believes the eLevations are consistent rrith thearchitectural theme of the building, it can proceed tobuilding perrnit. If staff is not confortable that this is infact the case, the iteE uill be returned to the PLanning
Connission and City Council for further action.
The City Council approved the first readingOrdinance Amendnent to anend Section 2O-4O9wetlands and wetland access. The iten was
reconmended by the Planning Connission.
for Zoning
concerning
approved as
5.
2
3
Sign ordinance
(1ow priority)
Tree ordinance - ltapping ofsignif icant vegetative
areas
Rezoning 2lr, Acre Lots to RRDistrict
Other Itens
Conputerize land use f iJ.es,permits, conditions andexpiration dates on aparcel by parcel basis
2.Reappraisal on wetlandissues, ordinance and
napping in conjunction
with storn water Danagenent
and water quality plan
Definition of structures
shoreland Ordinance
Flood Zone ordinance
Amendments to MUSA Boundary Adoption 12190
Future Use for Areas
Outside the UUSA Boundary
3
4
1995 Study Areas - Work effortto begin after adoption of new
Conp Plan
Staff directed to develop
scenarios - 1ow priority
Scheduled Di scus s i onl Sta f fdirected to draft a potential
new zoning district ordinance -late faI1, 1990
Inactive
Inactive
Schedule future
falI, 1990
agenda late
Staff processing a positionpaper to review wetlandordinance and enforcement
Budgeted noney for update 2year timeframe or storn waterutility fund
NoveDber 1, 1990
January, 1991
5
1
Novenber, 1990
REVTSED OCTOBER 11, 1990
ONGOING ISSUES STATUS
Comprehensive PIan Issues
1. conprehensive Plan Update Adoption 12190
Zonino Code Amendnents
1. Blending Ordinance
2. Rezoning BF Dist. to A2
Ongoing - CUP!s conpleted
3.
4.
R
6. crading/MineralExtraction OrdinanceadoPted
Review legislation and
ordinance pertaining to
group hornes
winter, 19 91
Variance ordinance and
procedures
Adopted by city Council
9. ordinance revision dealing
with lots accessed byprivate driveways
10. ordinance revj-sion dealing
with reguirement to post
signs of notice for
development
Approved by cc on 3/26/90
Adopted - signs to be acguired
11. Zoning Ordinance Amendment
for satellites on
Recreational Beachlots
12. Structures belo!, ollwu nust
have a perrnit.
L3. Revision of ordinancespertaining to antenna towers.
14. zoning ordinance Amendment
required by city councif regarding
perfornance standards for parking
1ot setbacks and requirement forbuffer yards in IoP District.
Pc Review on Nov. 7
7
u
CITY OF
EH[NH[SEEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE . PO. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937_1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
I{EI,IOR/AND[,I.I
TO: Planning Commission
FROM3
DATE:
SUBf:
Jo Ann olsen, Senior planner
october 1L, 199 0
Lake susan Hi11s west 3rd Addition
At- the last Planning cornnission neeting, it was guestioned whetherLake susan Hil1s west 3rd Addition had been requirea to berm andlandscape the hones adjacent to Audubon Road. Attached is thegrading and landscaping p1an. ?here is no berning since the areais a .drainage swale to the lretland on the norih side of theaddition. There is a landscaped screen of ponderosa pine and BrackHi11s Spruce 6 feet in height to provide some screening.
The screening has not been instal.led due to the inprovements toAudubon Road incruding a sidewark along the rear of the 1ots. Thelandscaping viLr be instalred after construction of Audubon Roadand the sidewalk is conplete. The City has a letter of creditcovering the cost to ensure instaLlation.
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CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEN
I{EI,IOR,ANDU}{
TO: Paul Krauss, Pl.anning Director
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Jo Ann olsen, Senior Planner
October 10, 1990
Excel,sior comprehensive PIan Amendnent
I have reviewed the Excelsior Conprehensive plan Amendment and havefound it to not affect Chanhassen. The Conprehensive plan providesgeneral descriptions of land uses and focuses prinarily on thedowntown area, the attraction of the lake and inproving theaccessibility to and frorn the city. The Conprehensive plan reviews
improvements to H\.ry. 7 as proposed by the TH 7 Corridor Study whichwould close some direct access fron Hrrry. 7. The Comprehensive plan
stresses the importance of existing businesses along Hwy. 7continuing to have sufficient accessibility and states the right towork c.Iose1y srith MnDOT in the finaL design layout stage tomaintain reasonable and efficient access to properties presentlyserved by TH 7.
C2x-
690 COULTER DRIVE . PO. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN. MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
a
OFFICE OF THE CIIY MANAGER
October 5, 1990
TO:y'city of chanhassen, Don Ashrrrorth, City Adninistrator
City of Deephaven, wendy Anderson, City Adninistrator
city of Greenwood, wendy Anderson, city Administrator
city of shorewood, Larry whittaker, City Adninistrator
city of Tonka Bay, David callister, city Administrator
School Di.strict No. 275, Don Draayer, Superj.ntendeht
Lake Minnetonka conservation District, Gene Strommen,
Chairnan
l.ln DoT, Golden Va1ley, Attn: Scott McBridge
Metropolitan waste Control Cornmission, Attn: Ed Bloon
Regional Transj.t Board, Attn: Gregory L. Andrews
Hennepin County, Mark Andrew, Chairman
Tad Jude, County commissioner
Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority,Attn: Kenneth E. stevens
Minnehaha Creek watershed District, James R. Spensley,
President, Board of Manaqers
According to State Statutes and ltletropolitan Council
Guidel j-nes the city of Excelsior has recently updated its
comprehensive Plan to conforn with the latest Metropolitan SystenStatements. As neighborj,ng municipalities or governmental unitshaving jurisdiction within Excelsior we are submitting a copy ofthe Conprehensive Plan 1990 Update to you for review and conment.
Pl,ease return any comments you have to ne within 45 days -Novenber 13, 1990. Thank you. The City Council will consider your
conments and adopt the final Comprehensive PIan before yearrs end.
s incerely,
GSW: cj
Enc l osure
339 THIAD STREET
EXCELSIOR, M INNESOTA 5533I
TELE:612-474-5233
RECEIVEB
ocT 0I 1990
CllT vr vr,.',',,ng;EN
cre$o{y S. WithersCity Manager
a:City of Excelsior
Comprehensive Plan
1990 [Jpdate
\Y
Westwood Prolessional Services, lnc.
14180 \Yest Trunk HighwaY 5
Eden Prairie, Minnesota 55344
612/937'51sO
September 18, 1990
CETT OF Ef,CELSIOR
@!{PATEENSTVE PI.TN I'PDITE
SEPTEUBER 18, 1990
The following peoPle have contributed to the develoPr0en! of the Conprehensive
Plan Update for the City of Excel'sior:
crrr oP Ex@sroR
Mayor Janes R. OIds, Jr.
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
Lucille Crow
Rod MacPherson
Dan Ryerson
Patti sue selseth
PLANNING CO!$IISSION MEMBERS
Lynn Johnson
BilI Mason
Linda Putnan
walLace Roepke
Jack Rosberg, chair
Paul Stark
Ken wiley
CITY STAFF
Greg Withers, CitY t'tanager
Carl Zienan, Public works Director
PITIOTING TEAI{
WESTWOOD PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, INC.
Allan Klugman
Tin Erkkila
CROUCH CONSULTANTS, INC.
KerBit crouch
1
TA.BI.E CONTEITTS
This conprehensive Plan is prepared as an uPdate to the Decenber 1980
conprehensive Plan.
Page No.
Acknowledgements....
Table of contents.
Populatj,on, Households ard EnPloynent Forecasts.
Cj.ty-wide Land Use PIan. . .
Downtown Land Use Plan. . .
Background
Downlown Sectors
Downtown Land use obj ectives /Policies
Downtown Land Use Plan bY Sector
Downtown Parking
1
2
3
4
5
14
17
2',|
22
29
Comnunity Facilities.
Park/Recreat ion/open SPace Plan -
Historic Facilities,
WastewateJ Managenent PIan. . .
FVltYOtirc
Generalized Land Use Plan. . .
Road classification Systen
13
23
z
TTON.IND ExPIOYI,IE![T FOREC,ASTS
the household forecasts contained in Excelsior's l98O CoEPrehensive Plan
(pages 19 and 20) rrere PrePared by the uetroPolitan Council in 1978 before the
tig6 Census was gndertaken. The household forecasts for 1990 proved to be
fairly accurate, but Projections of PoPulation $'ere ovelstaled due to the
decrelse in household size during the 1gg0's. Enploynent forecasts nere
significantly low conpared to the actual nunber of jobs'
MetropoLj.tan Council's forecasts for Excelsior contained in ils 1985
Metro;olitan DeveloPment and Investment franework (UDIF) are as follol's:
g80i gq 0 2000 2010
Population
Households
Employnent
2523
1149
3000
27 50
1400
3000
2900
1500
3000
,.1980 u. s. census
Metropolitan Council's current estirnates (aprit 1989) of PoPulation and
household in ExceLsior are as follows:
Population
Households
2530
1266
over baLf of Excelsior's housing inventory is nulliple fanily housing
(apartnents, condominiuns, townhouses, etc-) as opposed to single fanily
detached houses. As a result, the average household size is relatively 1o!, at
2.2 persons per household in 1980, and culrently estinated at 2'0 persons Per
household.
Porplanningpurposes,r'retrocouncil's19S6MDIFforecastswillbeused
althtugh poprrlation projections may be sonewha! overstated. Since Excelsior
is essentlalty fully developed in terns of residentia] gro!'th, relatively
Iittle increase over today's population/household leveIs is anticiPated.
3
2900
1400
3000
CITY-IIIDE I.AND I'SE PI.IN
While general Patterns in land use in Excelsior have been quite established,
some recent trends have been obServed as Ehe econony of Excelsior shifts fron
an industrial to a retail/tourisn base. These trends include:
A decline in industrial Land use
creater use of BuItiPIe fani!.y dwellings
conversion of older structures (often residential ) to relail or
of f ice
Increased interest in non-c.B.D. freestanding retail uses
These overall trends. Plus the two underlying local goals (Preservation/
protection of residential areas and the Preservation/Protection of the central
Business District) are reflected in the '1990 Land Use Plan. The conPlete
elj.rnination of Induslrial land use designation and the addition of a retail
transition zone and of f ice/res idential transition zone are new features of
this plan. The plan efements are suPPorted by the zoning aaP and ordinances.
The land use category definitions are:
Central Business District (CBD)
the Downtown (or cBD) of ExceLsior is generally contained within a four block
area flanki.ng vlater Street fron the Excelsior Bay to the rail coEido!. The
area contains the highest density of commercial activity. The central
Business District desigmation conveys a particular itBPortance as the relail
hub of the commurity, but Downtown Excelsior functions as a retail center for
an area beyond the city itself. fts proxirnj.ty to Lake t{innetonka, and
dj.stinctive atmosphere have nade it a center of subregional ioPortance'
Therefore, it is vital to treat Dorntown as a seParate and distinct area, so
that the unj.que characteristics of this zone are retained. The downtown area
has buildj.ngs of one and tHo stories which have architectural sigrnificance.
Front and side setbacks are generally zero feet. Parking is Provided either
on-street or on Ehe back si.de of lots. This district was expanded to include
land previously zoned industrial south and erest of Third on water street (see
graphic on page 13),
Retai.l T ransition Z
The area that flanks Dorrntown on the 6ast si'de acls as a transition zone
between the Dorrntown area and the surrounding residential areas. The Retail
Transition Zone extends sooe of the characteristics of Dorrnlown SuCh aS retail
concentration, building heights, and zero front setbacks. Rear garking nay or
nay not be a chalacteristic of this zone as it is in the C'B'D' Any
development nust nake contextual acknowledgements of neighboring uses,
architecture, and cultural signif icance.
1
2
3
4
Of f ice /Residentia I Transi.tion (oRT)
The of f ice/Res idential Transition zone occuPies the area between Doemtorrn and
Trunk Highway 7. This zone will also function as a transition bete'een
Downtown and surrounding a!eas.. In this zone nunerous regidential Struclures
4
Freestandino General Business (FGB)
This land use includes connerci.al areas outside of C.B.D. such as Water Street
and second street. Generally coEEerciaL densities ale lorrer, have off-street
parking and are oriented along street corridors. Building setbacks are
greater in this area, allowing easier autoDobile access.
RESIDENTTAI,
Low Densi-ty Residenlial Type 1 zones occurs on the soulh side of the City and
also on the norcheast side along the shore of Lake Minnetonka. This land use
category consists of entirely single fanily detached housing. The lot sj.zes
vary, causing the density to vary, but the use is consistent. As the loeest
density land use category, it is typically intended for areas with interruPted
or limiting road patterns. Building helghts are less than three stories.
Low Densitv Residential Tvpe 2 (LDR-2)
Medium Densitv Resi.dential (MDR)
The Mediun Densily Residential zones occur at the west and east sides of
Downtown in close proxinity to the proPosed LRT corridor and TH 7. lhis land
use category includes single family detached hooes, duplexes, fout-Plexes and
six-plexes up to a naximun density of 5.'l dwelli.ng units/acre and a Eaxioum of
two storj.es. The higher allowed densities of these areas wj.II relate rrell to
the comnercial areas surrounding then.
Hioh Densitv Re ident ia1 (HDR)
Hj.gh Density Residential zones occur on the north and east sides of docmtoFn
and along Lake uinneLonka. Pernitted densities include aPartnent buildings
and condominiuns up to 15-18 d'reLling units,/acre. Building heights are not to
exceed 35 feet. Here aLso, the High Density Neighborhoods abut business uses
and are logical buffers tretreen connercial areas and lor density housing.
PARK/OPEN SPACE (POS)
5
have been converted to office uses. office and residential seen to ai.x well.
The area $i11 also acknowledge unigue features and charactelistics of
adjoining areas.
Low Densitv Residenlial TvDe 1 (LDR-1)
This ]and use category occurs in one large area in the northwest Portion of
the Cj-ty. Lo!, Density Residential fype 2 includes single faEily detached
homes and duplexes. slnilar to LDR-I, the lot sizes (and densities) Eay vary
but the use is consistent. Architecturally, this land use category aPPears
identical to LDR-1. The duplexes are distinguished only by double entries and
street ad&esses .
This land use category includes city Park land, lhe cenetely and undeveloPable
storn water ponding areas. These areas Plovide "green space" and sPatial
relief in the developed portiogs of the City,
6
BACKGROUND
Even though Excelsior has been eagulfed by oelropolitan area orpanslon ln
recent years, it has naintained its alall towo chalacter and fl,avor, and also
retains a downtown area rith strong identity. But like uany othes domtorrn
areas, it is feeling the effects of coBpeting shopping cent€rs to the east and
west on TH 7.
the Excelsior Chanbe! of CoD8erce Dailed a "Drea[ 2000 Survey" to area
residents in 1989. The survey lncluded guestions that asked rhat rbsidentsIike atrout Excelsior as rell as rrhat they object to about ExceLsior. A
condensation of these perceived strengths and reakaesses is listed b€lon.
Strenaths :
1. soall town ataosphere/quaintness/unigueness/charn
2. Conpact, slorefront, pedestrian scale
3. old and new coabination-historic flavo!
4. Lakeview/awareness/coEoonspark
5. Sidewalkstrolling/trees
6. No thlough traflic
7- Entrance triangles: Men's Garden C\:b
8. Quality stores, varlety, not too o(Penslve
9. Generally good transition to adjacent residentiaL areas
10. Traditional downtown: includes city hall, Iibrary, fiae Etation,
churches, schools and post office
lt . Public parking lots in the Bl District
12. Historic flavor/respect for history
13. Restored/renodeled bui.ldings
14. Generally clean doHntown area and clean betch/Park alea
15. Doerntoun activities: For exaople - APple Days, Berltage Days, llallor.reen
parade, fireworks, art fair, Crazy Daya and Eirenan'g brats and dance
__,15, sunner atnosphere and people oixtule
17. Full-service towfl. convenience of stores
18. Attraction of people on Ceekends
gcs&csseg:
1. Unclear/confusing entrances to doeatona, b,ou to get ln and out?
2- RaiLroad/industrial divider: Negative irage
3. Unattractive gas atations at water and 3rd Streets - breaks up
storefront continuity of l{ater Street
4. Unattractive, under utilized outdoor storage areas, particularly along
the foroer rall line
5. 3rd Stleet storage sheds, trucks, old deterlorated houses
5. Tall lakeshore nultiple fanily buildings obstruct vietr froo downtorm
Lack of evening dining/restaurants
8. No supernarkets, li.nited choices fo! food purchases
9. SoBe building facades on l{ater Street need inproveoent
10. Blurred letail inage, nixed signals
1'l . Non-retail busi,nesses on water Slleet
12. Need additional, eore conplete line of shops
13. Lack of parking
14. Truck and eguip8ent night-tine parking
15. Lack of upkeep ln downtown area
16. Too nany nulti-faaily dwellings
17. Poor rear entry appearance fron palking Iots
The above listj.ng of strengths and weaknesses ras derived fron a variety ofsources. It is interesting to note that sooe people's perception of downtorrndiffer fron others. For exanple, soEe feel that downtown Excelsior is clean
and others note that there is a lack of upkeep. Also, sone feel that a rridevariety of store tlrpes exist whi,le others feel the need for addj,tional
businesses.
7
DOWNTOWN SECAORS
The downtown coneercial area of Excelsior is concentrated generally between
trl-2, e*c.fsior Bay and westerly to businesses on the west side of water
Street. within this general triangrular area there are six i'lentifiable
conmercial sectors. They are as follows:
1. water street North, betBeen Lake and 3rd Streets: this is the roost
conpact and the aost Pedestrian oriented Part of the downtown '
2. Lake/2nd Streets, east of water Street to the caPtain Johnson Meoorial:
contains sofia cotteiciil fronlage south of 2nd Stree! and nixed
iesidential /commereial between 2nd and Lake street'
3. Forner Rail Corridor: includes ProPerties on either si'le of the fomer
rair rine. co"a.Ii='ri*ture of- corrercial, industriar and residential
Land uses.
4. water Street south: zoned 82 and contains several free standing
businesses wittr giivaee Parking lots as well as sone businesses in
converted residential structures'
5. TH ? frontage between the elenentary school and the uilL Street bridge:
contains several fiee standing businesses that dePend prinarily on
business generated fron highuay traffic'
5. Old Anusement Park: contains Excelsior Bay Yacht Club' forner Mai Tai
Restaurant and an office building '
DOWNTOWN LAND USE OBJECTIVES/POLICIES
The follovring is a list of generaL objectives and policies relating to-the
overall downtown area. ttt"'=G""q"""L section wlll discuss Eore detailed
ni."""-."a directions for each sPecific precinct of the downtown '
1. tnProve the physical appearance/ inage of Excetsior's business areas'
2. InProve the caPacity of the City and the business coEnunj'tY to address
develoPment oPPort;iEies through sound Planning and incteased
cooPeration.
3. uaintain and strengthen Excelsior as a full-service business conmunity
with acconnodatioil
-ioi the seasonal nature of sooe of the connercial
uses .
4. Renove the leal and Psychological barrier. created by the rail/industrial
corridor rt ict curielliy aiviaes the north and south water street
connercial "r""".--itiolage redevelopoent of uses along tlater Street
- -uithin tfre r oistrili-"t "l to take on the character of the 81 District'
and to serve "" t-""ity:'"g eLeEent betHeen the north and south watet
Street areas.
8
5
6
Preserve the concentration of govefiloent services Hithj'n dosntown
Excelsior in order to Baintain the City's status as the Princj'Pa1
governnent center for the south Lake Area, to nutually benefit the users
of Uott connercial and governnent facillties in terns of convenience and
effj.ciency, and to naintain a strong do$rrtonn identity '
work with un/DOT and HennePin County to achieve clearly defined and
convenient access Points to downtown Excelsior fron T'H' 7 atrd flori
relevant County highwaYs.
Encourage residential use above the fj.rst story uithin do$ntown
corunerci.al areas.
Stlenglhen the fairly rrell defined business and coonercial aleas of
sxceliior, and prevent potential conflicts sith the residential areas by
creating buffer striPs betrreen the houses.
Encourage restoration or lenovation of older downtown buildings to
reflect their original design and character. Encoulage facade
inprovements whj.ch reflect the early history of the City, but also
promote a variety of facade designs !o create interest and texture '
idditiorr= to historj.c structures should be synpathetic to the design of
the structure and to surrounding proPerties.
preserve Structures o! unigue historic/architectural value and encourage
theiradaptivere-useinordertonai.ntainthehistoriccharacterand
fabric of the dovrntown.
Encourage the retenEj.on and adaPtive re-use of singl'e fanily dwellings
Hithin the downtown area, if such dtetlings have sigrnificant
historical/archilectural value and wiII contribute to the desired snall
town/historic character.
7
8
9
10.
tt.
12.
13.
14.
15.
to.
Lirnit building heights in downtown Excelsior to 35 feet or three stories
in order to raintain the desired snall town/Pedestrian scale arrd
character.
The existing view of the school tovrer done (tenporal synbol) and the
church steeple (sPirj.tual symbol ) fron both the road and the water
should be retained as new develoPment and redevelopnent takes place in
the downto!.n area.
The lake and boat docks at the end of tlater Street should Dake a
statenent about Excelsior since they lark the end and the beginning of
"Mai.n street".
Preserve and emPhasize the garden sPaces at the entrances to dorrrtown '
Develop a walking/bicycle trail xithin the foraer railroad righ!-of-way
as has been done in neighboring comnuni'ties.
sufficien!, convenient Parking is critical to a viable CBD- Multi-use
parking is prevalent in the CBD and therefore the City should own and
operate parking faci.Iittes with the business and/or general coEnunily
funding the constructioir, and Baintenance f j'aanced by the local clty
9
17 .
businesses. Further planning should be alone to locate future facilities
and decide on oPerating Policies.
18. The City of Excelsior suPPorts the long-tern Provision of light rail
transit service for the Excelsior atea using the foraer Olicago
Northlrestern Rail corridor '
DOIiNTOWN LAND USE PLAN BY SESTOR
The type and pattern of proposed land uses is sr:onarized belofl according to
the six different downtown sectors and is graPhically shown oa the follolring
page.
1 water Stree!rth
La]xe I Second St eets
In general, a nixture of retail, service and office use should be
encouraged.
The area between Lahe and second streets is currently under-utilized.
This area is one of the few in the downtown that enj oy,s_ a clear view of
Excelsior Bay b€teeen the two nultiple family housing cooplexes '
Entertainment facilities and restaurants should b€ encouraged in this
sector.Buildingsshouldb€allowedtosetbackfronthefrontlotline
so as to create opportudiries for courtyard tYPe Public sPaces '
This is the downtorrn core of Excelsior conprised of buildings dating
back to 1880. The anbiance which is engendered by the old one and two
story bui.).dj.ngs rrith brick facades, and intinacy of Public sPace franed
by the buildings should be Eaintained and enhanced '
Land uses along water street should be Prioarity of a retail basis rrith
highfreguencypurchasebusinessesencouraged.officesPaceno!oriented
to custoner slrvice on the gror:nd floor should be discouraged' Mixed
uses including retail with apartnent or office sPace above should be
pernitted. The goal should be to achieve and naintain a Pedestrian-
oriented shopPj.ng street.
Propelties along water Street beteeen Lake and Third streets should be
conltructed with a nandatory zero front 1ot line and with two and three
story facades. Building naterials should be the sane as or
cornplenentary to existing structules.
The nunicipal parking lots on either side of water Street should be
connectedtowaterstreetsidewalksbyanexpandedpedestrianwalkHay
systen. The lots themselves should be eahanced by Placing utility lines
underground, by providing trees and shrubs and landscaPed islands, by
proviiing conveniently located refuse collectlon facilities, and by
prov:.dini better lighting and sigrnage. Rear building entrances should
be prbvided aod nade attractive to use.
Through traflic should be de-enphasized on East and west Drives, and
con*,eise1y, access to the aunicipal parking lots should be eophasi.zed.
2
'10
The aixture of office/retail south of second street should renain eith
an eEphasis on of! ice/Professional services.
off-stleet Parking should be Provided in public or cornEon joj'nt use lots
as opposed lo each business being reguired to have its or''n seParate
private parking.
9later Street outh
3 Foflner Rail Corridor
This sector contaj.ns a nixture of relail, service/office, light assenbly
and storage and older deteriorated single-fanily housing' The area is
generally -under-utilized and several of the properties present a rather
iegative visual aPPearance due to the Presence of outdoor storage sites
and unmaintained buildings.
In general, industrial uses should be Phased out in favor of nore
relevant, traditionaL downtown coNnercial uses.
The water Street frontage should be developed as an extensiofl of the
water street North/B1 District. zero lot line buildings rrith two story
facades should be encouraged so as to Provide a continuous connecting
link between the north and south water Street sectots' Retai'I uses
should be encouraged on water street erith comnercial service/office uses
permitted further east and trest of water street busi'nesses ' l{ediur
density housing nay be appropriale a! the east and e'est edges of the
di.strict near Certer and l'Iorse streets.
The tHo gas stations on Thj.rd Stree! are generalLy Perceived as a
negative visual feature in dolrntown. The saall one-story gas station
buitdings set back fron water stleet contras! sharply Hith the
conEinuous tuo-story zero lot liae buj.Idings to the north' The gas
stations should be ieLocated to another, nore appropriate, locatj,on, and
theirSitesshouldberebuilttorrorecloselyconforBtothechalacler
of the glater Street North continuous building facades.
4
5
This area is zoned 82 and contains several free-standing larger
businesses rrith private Parking lots as He1l as soae businesses in
converted residential structules on sBall tots with Iimited Parking '
This is a nain enlrance to downtown and has easy access to County Road
19 and Highway ?. As a result, this sector has greater voh:nes of
traf f j.c than the water Street core shoPPing area to the north'
The established pattern of individuaL free-standing businesses should be
continued.
T. H. 7 Frontaoe Businesses
The area north of T.H. 7 b€tvreen the elenentary school and the MilI
Street Bridge contains s-everat free-standing businesses that depend
primarily on lhe highway Eo generate business. un/DOT's long-range pJ'an
for improvenents to T.H. ? calls for elinination of the Morse Street
access to T.H. ? and prcrbable elinination of Private driveway accesses
fron the highsay to the'businesses. Thj's inProvement plan is not within
1'l
Mn/DoT's five year program but could be acconplished sonetine auring the
t 990 ' s.
tlhile the proposed highr,ray inProvenents e,ill benefit the traveling
publj.c and rrill ted,r"" safety hazards, such a project would have obvious
negative inPacts on the businesses. The land use Plan recogrrizes the
existing buiinesses and endorses their continuation, but also recogmizes
that coinercial activity in this area nay not be able to be naintained
to the sane degree if and when the highway inProvenent is undertaken '
6 OId Anusenen! Park
The old anusenent Park ProPerty has been redeveloP€d over the years for
condominiun housj'ng, a yacht club, a restaurant and an office building '
Therestauranthasbeenclosedsincethenid-1980,sandPotentia]'
redeveloPment of that site has been discussed j'n recent years' with
another iestaurant bei.ng a Possibility' rn general, entertainment'
oiti.", non-retail establishrnents should be encouraged to develoP in
thls area.
DOWNTOi,IN PARKING
ThecityofExce]siortooktheleadinlg5SandcreatedtwoEuniciPalPublic
ParkinglotswithintbecoreBlDistrict.Anotherlong-ternParkinglotis
,'ro, leirrg ProPosed rrilhin the forrner rail right-of-way to relieve the two
existing ]ots of long-tern parking use'
The parking standards for commercial development in the zoning ordinance are
apgropriate for free-standing commercial sites bu! are not appropriate for aa
olde! traditional downEown aiea. The objective to Preserve and streagthen the
compact Pedestrian-oriented shoPPing district does not go hand-in-hafld with a
ree;ire.Lnt for each individual Lusiness to have its own Parking. The Parking
stJndards in the zoning ordinance for comsrercial uses should be relaxed for
the North water Street and Lake/second street Areas i'n order to allow new
developrnent to occur in the Pedestrian-ori'ented Pattern outlined in the Land
UsePtan.whenneeded,thecityshouldtaketheresPonsibilityforprovidiag
additional public Parking in the CBD'
12
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6
Version 3
GENERALIZED LAND USE PLAN 1990
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CITY OF EXCELSIOR
tt90
IIII I I I I L_ t- t- t-I
The 'lgEO ConPrehensive Plan includes only a brj'ef reference to the "public and
guasi-Public service oPPortunities" available in Excelsior ' Reference is nade
to the churches, schoots, and nuniciPaL facilities: city Halt/Library/Fire
station, Police station and Public works. The two dorrntosn Public Parking
tot" "rra on-street parking are also Eentioned as being inPortant public
facilities. Thus, the t98O comnunity Facilities "PIan" siDPly identifies
existingfaciliti.esbutdoesnotdescribethei!presentandfutu'eadeguacy,
and doei not offer a plan for neeting future leguirenents '
The purpose of lhis CoErrunity Facilities Plan UPdate is to briefly identifv
anddescribeexistingnunicipalandrelatedPublicfacititiesandtoidentify
in a general nanner the need for new and/or expanded facilities' This
docu:nlnt is not a Plan as such, but it provides a focus and context for nore
detailed planning j,n the years alread '
SHARED FACILITIES
Duetotherelativelysrnal]sizeofthecoMluJtj.tiesarormdthesouthshoreof
Lake Minnetonka, the Provision of sone Pub1ic services is currently undertaken
on a joint or shared use basis'
Public safetY ( Police)
The South Lake Mir:netonka Public Safety DePartnent (Police) is a join! Powers
afrangenent between rxcelsior, ShoreHood, Tonka Bay and Glee$'ood ' The City
or s*i"t=io, constructed a new A:blic safety building at the east edge of the
cityinlgEgandleasesthefacilitytothejointPowersorganization.This
strircture should serve the needs of the four cosnunities fo! Eany yeals'
Fire Prot t ion
Excelsior has its orrn volunteer Fire Department and also provides fire
p.otection to Shorewood, Tonka Bay, Greenrood and Deephaven on a contract
basis.
Public works/streets
Although no fornal arrangenent exists anoog South Lake Minnetonka (SLM)
communities for pubric w6rks services, the various Bunicipal superintendents
anddirectorshaveaworkingrelalionshipwherebyPersonnelandeguigtentare
shared as the need arises.
Future Direct ions
In order to Conserve linancial resources the economy and effecliveness of
urunicipal services Bust continually be evaluated by elected officials and the
general public. Oolnt oi-stared "-se atrat'genents as described above could be
used as eodels of Pto'ridi,,g other lunicipai services ' rncreased cooPelation
of the sLM connunities rill becone Dore necessary in the future ' As-service
needs escalate and suniciPalities react to the Dandate to reduce duplication
oi-.o"t" PerhaPs the ultiiate rleveL of cooPeration sill be reached - unity'
14
CITY HALL/FIRE STATION/LIBRARY
The existing nuniciPat comPlex in the do$ntosn area on 3rd Street houses the
city 6a1I ( iarninistiati". offi."" and council chaobers), pire station and
r,ibiary. The City of ExceLsior offirs the structure and leases sPace to the
Hennepin Cou,nty Library SYsten.
Librarv
The county feels that ils current qualters in the City Hall conplex are
!.nadeguall in terns of space needs. rt eoulal tike a facility of perhaps three
tines the present size. Recent investigations to locate larger guarters in
Excelsior have been unsuccessful.
A Strong library is a very ilportant asset to Excelsior area residenls, and is
also an inportant contribuLor to naintaining and strengthening the health and
vitality of the downtown area. It is a key ingredient in expandinq
Excelsior's role as a "full service" com8unity.
The City and business corununity should actively Parti'ciPate ia the County's
efforts to locate Larger quarters in the dosntoHn area in the early 1990's.
citv Hall/Fire station
The existing adninistrative off i.ces and council chanbers are inadequate in
terms of siie, spatial relationships and handicap accessibilit!'. The Fire
StaUion also needs additional sPace.
The adjacent proPerty to the west has been considered for Cily Hall/Fire
station expanaion, but no detaj.led sludies have been conducted to evaluate
that solution. A programnatic needs analysis and feasibj.lity study should be
conducted to deternine more specific space needs and relationshiPs and to
identify and evaluate Potential solutions.
PUBLIC }iORKS
Excelsior's public works buildings and storage site are located at the rrest
edge of the city adjacent to county Highvray 19. ExceLsior and shore$ood are
currently discussi.ng the acguisition and joint use of an outdoo! storage area.
The Excelsior site iS inadeguaEe to accomnodate the needs of both contrunities
and is located in close proxinity to a singte fanily residential neighborhood.
SENIOR CITIZEN CENTER
A portion of the former high school building by Hud Lake is currently used as
a senior citizens center buc lacks sufficient and relevant space to
acconmodate the various actitities and functions. A larger center desigmed
specificatly for senio! citizens usage is desi'red by Excelsi'or's older
resi.dents.
15
POS1 OFTICE
TheexistingPostofficeislocatedinleasedsPaceatthenorthwes!edgeof
downtown at the intersection of Lake and 2nd streets. the Post otfice has
indicated a need for Dore sPace designed to b€tter neet its Particular needs '
t{hile a relation does not appear ioninent, the city and business coEouttity
should becoEe i.nvolved in the retocation Plocess to assure that an aPProPriate
facilitycanbeprovidedinthedorrrtornarea'Sinil'artothelibrary'the
pos! ofiice is an inportant contributor to Daintaining and strengthening
Excelsior as a full servj.ce conEutrity.
16
PARXS /RECRETTI ON/OPEN SPACE PTIN
all of the existlng public park and recreation facilities in ExceLsior are
owned and Baintained by the Cj.ty except for open play aleas by the school
conplex which are owned by the school District.
The Comnons
The connons is the prinary park/recreation/oPen sPace facility in Excelsior.
It is located at the northses! edge of doerntown along Lake Minnetonka on a
peninsula between Excelsior and Gideons Bays.
The CoNnons was created by the early founders of Excelsior vil]age in '1854 and
was dedicated for pernanent Public use. The Park is about 20 acres i.n size
and offers a wi,de range of aclive and passive uses including terutis courts,
ball fields, play areas, swinning beach, walkways, picnic aleas, band shell,
pavilion and passive open space. llany special events such as the {th of JuIy
fireworks are held at the Comnons. The events and the uniqueness of the Park
attract significant usage by non-residenlsl hence, it functions as both a
connuni.ly and a regional palk facility.
while The Connons has provided a valuable recreati.on/open space service to the
city and region for nany years, sone of its facilities are beconing outaoded
and are sonewhat deteriorated. In addition, the sPatial relationships anong
some of the facilities ls rather $reak. For exanPle, the children's play
equipment is outdated and is situated in scattered locations rrithin the pa!k.
Contemporary park developoents feature a bentralized nulti-use play area with
nole creative nodular play apparatus.
The Parklands
the Parklands is the other significant park/open space facility in Excelsior.
It is Located at the west edge of the Connuni ty south of county Highway 19.
Unlike the Commons, this facility is generally passive use j,n nature as
opposed to active use.
The Parklands consists of a significant ]agoon/wet!.and surrounded by
vegetative cove! rrhich together cleates an attractive natural setting.
Facil,ity developoents include a gazebo, skating rinks, garden plols and a
walking palh aroutrd the lagoon.
The park includes-iorne undeveloped land that could potentially be developed
for more active use; hoeever. thj.s will depend upon the corulunity's feeling
abou! preserving this facility in its natural state as a Predooinantl,y passive
use park. r.
17
EXISTING FACILITIES
The doninant open space feature and recreatioaal provider in Excelsior is Lake
Minnetonka together rith its related land based features - Bost notably the
Comnons park as t,eII as public and Private boat dochage facilitles. several
sEaller lakes, ponds and ?etlands also exist within the City rrhich add to
Excelsior's unigue charE and attractioa.
MASTER PARK PLAN/SURVEY
The Excelsior Park and Recreation corneission rill PrePale a Master Park Plan
in 1991 with the aid of a Park Planning consultant firo' As a first steP in
ii. pto"""", the connission undertook a survey of local residenls in '1989 to
J.i"irlt. existing park use Patterns and to deternine rhat new or inProved
park/recreation facilities are needed in Excelsior'
Key findings of the November 1989 survey are listed below:
2
3
S3totresidentssurveyeduseExcelsi'orparks;5ltusetheseParks.rir"=r".iy. of those fevi $ho do not use city parks, the Bajority are
elderly and/or aPartnent dwellers '
The comnons is by lar the Dost used Palk as opPosed to the Parhlands '
Carver Park neserve, MinneaPolis Lakes and Eden Prairie Parks are other
leading parks used by Excelsior residents '
The priEary reason for using other parks. is reLated to
iir;s7;.ii.i"g/hiking/nature trairs' Better and rore extensive
pi.vgio,-a eguiPnent rras the second highest reason for visiting other
parks .
The nos! popular reason for using Excelsior Parks in rank order are:
4
5
l. Jogging/walking
2. Swinning
3. Picnicking
18
Port of Excelsior
The tern "Port of Excelsior" refers to the land and water area at the north
end of rlale! Street where the historic dorntown district neets Lake
uinnetonka. It is City-owned but is not Part of the dedicated CoEnons ' The
iily "f"o owns dock talilities which are leased to prj'vate Palties -l'ith.,pr"i".*". given to Excelsior residents. The plers, l'hich are used by the
i.rg. .*"ttlion and charter boats, are also owned by the city'
The Park and Recreation Connission would like to Eake various inProveoents to
thisareawithaviewtowardcrealingastrongrraterbasedfocusandidentily
at the end of ',Main Stree!". Thj.s area should uake a strong statenent about
ixcelsior. Some of the desired inprovenents include road irnprovenents by the
pi.ii, ati"r.ing fountain, benches, nore attractive trash receptacles'-information Uootfrs. and a gathering place for charter boats' as !'ell as PubIic
restloons. A strong vj,suai elenent snoura be provided as the centerpiece of
the redesign/ redeveloPment effort' The Connj'ssion would also like to
reconfigur! and expand the residential dock sPace to b€tter serve Excelsior
residents,
A broader objective is to strenglhen lhe relatioRshiP and connection bet,een
the Connons, the Port of Excelsj'or and the doe'ntown entertainnent businesses
and faciliti'es.
4. Playground
5. Boating
6. Tennis
7. Skating
8. Fishing
9. softball
10. Basketball
Two special events are heavily attended by local residents l
the Alt Festival, 8?t attend the rireworks '
75t attend
7. Positive connents about the parks in rank order are:
Neat and clean
Law and order kePt
More concerts desired
Excursion boats are good
More activiti.es are desired
Leash law enforced
Respondents trould like to see lhe following areas ot iBProvenents ln
6
8
rank order:
1- Clear snoe, fron walks
2. SideHalk vendors
3. fishing docks
4. glatking/jogging Path
5. ForBaI gardens
5. Infornation gathering Place
7. Playgloutd eguiPnent
8. Inprove raroing house
9. Ticket Booth
10. More rental docks
11 . Public boat launch
12. wider sideeralks
9 Nearty half (48.7t) of the resPondents o$rr a boat, and Dost are notor
boats. Of those owning boats, the vast Eaiority (691) do not use
Excelsior docks, and eost of these would not use such docks if they were
availabLe.
Metropolitan council's Regioaal Recreation oPen SPace Policy Plan sho$'s a
poteniial. regiona), trail whj,ch general,ly encircles the greater Lake tlinnetonka
irea, and connects r.ith Carver Park Reserve, The polential trail corridor
follows the forner rail line through Excelsior '
The cities of shorerood, Hj,ruretonka and victoria have developed such a trail
along the forner rail line. dreenr.rood has also develoged its Portion of the
The results of the 1989 resi,dent survey irill be a valuable tool in fornulating
a Master Park Plan during 199'l .
REGIONAL TRAIL
19
1
2
3
5
6
regional trail, but Dot in the rail coEridor. Excelsior is the only Eissing
Iink ln coEpleting the regiooal trail. such coDPletion is a high Priority of
the Excelsior Park and Recreation Conoission.
GARDENS AND OPEN SPACE
The Excelsior Men's Garden club is a rather unique organization tha! Eaintains
flo*er gardens around the conaunity, Dost notably at the east and south
entrances to he dormtown area. Safe and accessible garden sPace in
Excelsior's parks strould b€ Provided for use and Daintenance of the l'{enr s
Galden CIub.
SOUTH NEIGHBORHOOD PARK
Excelsior's existing Park facilities are located north o! T,H. 7
park facllity to serve the resi.dentj.al area south of T-lt. 7.
There is no
The southwest corner of Division street and 3rd Avenue contains an
undeveloped, privately owned wetland/open space feature. It has been
suggested that this xetland be retained for its ecological /aesthetic value and
that lhe undeveloped "dry land" night tre suitable for developnent of a snall
neighborhood park. The upconi.ng uaster Palk Plan PreParation should evaluate
the needs of this neighborhood and the Possibilj'ty of developi.ng a park
facility at glheeler and 3rd.
CONCLUSION
This secllon of the 1990 Conprehensive Plan uPdate has briefly described the
existing City Park Systen and has j,dentified sone directions for iBProveoent.
The Conunons is a very rare Park and is by fa! the Dost used in the City. It
also is heavily used by non-residents which gives it soneerhat of a regional
park inage.
The Master Park Plan that will be undertaken in 1991 will Provide valuable
insight and directions for inproving the existing park/recreation/open space
systan. The completed plan should be adopted as the official, ConPrehensive
Park PIan for Excelsior.
20
EI STRT'CTURES
In 1982, the Excelsior Heritage Preservation coBsission, under the direction
of the Excelsior city council, published a booklet docusentj.ng historic
structures within Excelsior titled Historic Excelsior. This was not intended
to be a complete inventory of all historic structures, but rather to highlight
30 buildingi of particular sigrnif,icance. for exa'p1e, nany of the buildinEs
along Tlater Stree! are historic and architecturally noteuorthy, but Eany rere
not included in the booklet. collectively these buildings give l{ater street
its atnosphere and appeal.
Many historic buildings and hoses within the coD8unity at.e conpatible rith
adjicen! land uses and are in good structural condition. continued
nainlenance and restorative efforts should be encoulaged. conversell" Eany
historic buildings are not consistent rrith adjacent land uses and are
threatened by redevelopment, such as the old residences in the downtosn area.
However, it is the presence of these old residences that give the dorflltown
area its charin and character. The convelsion (adaPtive re-use) of these
structures should be eneouraged and should be sensitive to the original
architecture of the building and neighboring structures. A good exanPle of
adaptive reuse is the wyer/Pealce House located at 201 Mill Street'
originally a residence, it is currenlly used as a bed and breakfast ' Posed
above six corners at a najor entry to the cBD, ils architecture and aass oake
a substantial contribution to the lesidential character of this area. lt is
anticipated tha! these structures can be integrated rri.th surrounding uses and
nake a vafuable contribution !o lhe coEEunity as a rhole.
21
ON PI.AN
BACKGROUND
The City of Excelsi.or contains a roadway sysleo that is genera]ly fully
inplace and developed. This alloss the city little oPPortunity for Dajor
chinges or additions to the roadway netrork. Tbe Prinary transPortation
planning issue for the city concems not the develoPoent of new facilities but
iather the reconstruction of TH ?. This reconstruction rill give the Cily an
opportunity to inProve the "gateway" access froE TH 7- At the sale tiEe it
,ii1 pr.s"nt a chal,lenge on ho, to best naintain access to ProPerties Hhich
have historically had good access to TH 7.
TRANSPORTATION NETTIORK -- REGIONAI ISSUES
TH 7 is designated as a PrinciPal arterial roadrray. I! Provides Excelsior
rri.th its prinary access to the rest of the BetloPolitan area and beyond' rn
1985 the Minnesota Deparlnent of TransPortation conducted a corridor sludy lor
TH ? fron the western boundaries of Shorewood and Chanhassen to TH 101 in
Minnetonka. The objective of the Corridor Study rras to develop roadray
layouEs for TH 7 that rne! the safety, nobility and access goals of TH 7' The
layouts developed in the colridor Study rePresent "ultinate" or final
.o.rdi!ion" for TH 7. The MetroPolitan council has adoPted the TH 7 corridor
SEudy as palt of its TlansPortation DeveloPoent Guj'de/Po1icy PIan' In
addj.tion, MnDot has adopted these layouts as a coaPonent of their Trrenty Year
plan. The realities of highway construction dictate that these layouts wi.ll
be built in a staged nanner over a nunber of years, Uith Possible interiB
construction in certain areas prior to the conPletion of the ultiBate Teenty
Year Plan activities.
The city of ExceLsior acknowledges the need for safety and caPacity
improvenents along the entj,re TH ? Corridor. This wiII be achieved by the
closi.ng of individual direct ProPerty access Points to the highHay, by the
closing of select highHay/local street intelsections and nedian crossovets and
by the consolidation of access points to a liniled nunber of Dajor, controlLed
j.ntersections. The city also achnowledges that the layout of the culrent TH 7
access ranps at the eastern end of the city is a substandard configuration
which rnarks this as an accide[! hazard area. Furthernore, the current
confusing access Pattern into and out of the City is a detrinent to the
attraction of vlsitors to Excelsior. tlhile acknorrledging the beneficial
impacts of safety inProvenents to TH 7, Excelsior stlesses that sone
po-1"t. of Land within the City did develop based on access availability to
the highnay.
Trro segxnents identified in the TH 7 corridor study relate sP€cifically to the
City oi Excelsior, the "Excelsior Area East" segmen! and the "Excelsior Area
W""i,' ="gr"rrt. The City endorses lhe general concePts outlined in the layouls
,,Excelsior Afea East Atternative Two" and "Excelsior Area tlest Allernative
Two." Horrever, the City reserves the right to Hork cLosely Uith tltlrDot' in the
final design layout stage to ensufe that leasonable and eflicient access is - -
saintained to properties presently served dlirectly by TH 7. In Palticular,
three specj.fic areas within the city have b€en identi.fied rhereby proPerty
access u.nder the proposed tH 7. layouts xoutd great.ly dininish fron its Present
level. These three areas are discussed belos.
22
It
o
LEGEND
,o*oo
-.\\-"
f PrlnclPal Arterlal
I I Mlnor Arterlal
nnrrrn Collector (i 91s 513Y
r T.H.7 KeY Access RoadwaY
.1!6.
tutoe
os5 MINNETON,q
fttcltrro, ,an f't aaltt, ,ar)
I r
5 a
3r
I
rI
\
a.J
=-:Jl-*,=l
|I
i=
td
I
)
N(,
ROAD CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM IY H#*'
AUGUST, 1990
tlItlrltIIII-_M,
I
II
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
II
THTH ohwav Frontag e Business Ar ea Near Morse Avenue
the proposed closing of Morse Avenue north o! TH 7 e,ould cause a Present
highway frontage retail alea to cooPletely lose its access to TIt 7' It is the
goif oi the Ciiy that al1 existing businesses renain readily accessible and,
iurthernore, it is the goal of the City's Land Use Plan that this area renain
viable cooEercial ProPerty. This carnnot occur uithout sone leasure of access
to TH ?. It is thl position of the city that as the ultiBate configuratlon of
the "Excelsior llrea West" Iayout is inpleoented in a staged lanner over a
nunber of years, "right in - light out" access be naintaj.ned at l,lorse Avenue
for the prlsent tine and the imnediate futufe. If, after the other elenents
of the ).ayout are inplenented, there is still an accident hazald condition'
the cily witt considlr support for the closure of t{orse Avenue access. rf
Horse Avenue access is closed, the city wi.ll need to anend its Land use Plan
toacknowledgethatthebusinessesfrontingTH?,r'hichdependonhigh!'|ay
traffic, erill no longer be viable and the land use in that area will cha$ge '
THTHi qhway siness A ea Near D ivision s treet
with the present aliginnent of TH ? there is direct off and on access for
Hestbound traffic at Division street. A comsercial area has developed in that
vi.cinity to take advantage of the easy highray access' the ProPosed
reallgnient of TH ? and ieconf ignrration of access ranps into downtown would
eliniiate the present direct access. with the upglrading of the christnas Lake
Roadintersectiontoanajo!intersectionthisbusinessareaHillbefairly
welL served via christ.oas Lake Road and Excelsior Boulevard. still the city
reguests that shen final high{ay desigrn Plans are developed for this area'
continued access to the Division street area be exPlored. (Although j't is not
the intene of this docunent to develop final design ptan configurations, the
City envisions a PoEential "ramp froo a ramp" solutlon to the Probleo of
providing direct Divj'sioa Street area access.)
The headguarters for the south Lake Area Police is located iEnedialely east of
the oivision Stree! exi.t/entrance area. consideration of energency vehj'cle
accessibility to 1H ? (possibly via dedicated access points unavailable to the
general pubric) should be nade during the developnent of desigrn solutions for
this area.
24
Elm Place Resldential Area
The Eln Place residential area is a peninsula on the south side of TH 7 that
juts into GalPj.n Lake. In lhe Planning and desigm Phases for TH 7 the city
Itrongty feels that adeguate access nus! be Baintained to this a!ea' No
atteriailre or ,,backdoor" access points apart fron TH 7 reach to this area,
thereby stressing the critical need lor adeguate access fron TH 7' the city
teets itrongty that arr areas of Excelsior need to eaintain their abili,ly to
access both the regional roadway network and the iEPortant doEttown
destinations of the CitY.
TRANSPORTATION NETI{ORI( -- LOCAT ISSUES
Functional. Class i ficat ion
The roadrray functioaal classification systeo developed by the Metropolitan
Council consists of four classes of loadsays: priacipal arterials, ninor
arterials, collector streets and local streets. Al1 four of these
classifications ale represented within the City of Excelsior (see graphic on
page 23, Road classification syster). one of the systed goals of the
!,tetropolitan coutrcj.l is to encourage local conaunlties to develop routes shich
can acconmodate short, loca1ly-destined triPs, thereby keePing those triPs off
the regional roadway systen. As a sEatl, developed cooeunity constrained by
its lake sulrouflding, Excelsior has little oPPoltunity to develop neH roadsay
roules. However, as access opportunities change rrith the uodificati'ons to
tH 7, the role of certain collector roadways xithia the City rill be enhanced.
Principal Arterial
TH ? is the onty principal arlelial load'ray serving the City o! Excelsior. It
is the ci.!y's prj.mary corurection to the lest of the uetroPolitan area and to
outstate Minnesota as well. As discussed in the Previous section, TH 7 will
undergo nodifj.cations in the coming years to enhance its ability to serve its
prinary purpose -- the safe, effj.cient novenent of through vehicle traffic.
Accordingly, access to the highway will be restricted and consolidated at
na j or po j.n!s .
Minor Arteria I s
Col lectors
Five roadways wilhi.n the City are desigmaled as collector roadways: l{ate!
street, second Stree! and Excelsior Boulevard, al,l north o! TH 7, and Second
and Third Avenues south of 1H 7. water Street traverses the naln con8ercial
core of the City; it i.s "Maln Street" of the City. In addition, l{ater Street
connects to the ninor arterial CSAH 19. Second Street serves as the prinary
connection fron the core of the City to both TH 7 and CSAH 82. The iElrortarnce
of Second Street is further enhanced as j,t provides direct access to the
nunicipal parking lots in the downtodn core.
Excelsior Boulevard travelses east-resE -for a short distance with!,n the City,
parallel to TH 7. Just east of the City linits, the intelsecti.on of TH 7 and
christnas Lake Road wiLl be upgraded to becoae a najor TH ? access point. The
north leg of that intersectiont ties direclly into Excelsios Boulevard
Excelsior is served by three ninor arterj.al. roadways: csAH 82 (uj,l] Street),
CSAH 19 (oak Street), and Minnetonka Boulevard. CSAIi 82 provides nolth-south
access into the city flon Shorewood aJrd Charhassen. CSAH 82 becooes Carver
CSAH 17 at the Chanhassen-Shorewood border and continues south to lH 5 and
beyond .
CSAH 19 on the west side of Excelsior provides north-south inter-connunity
access to the western Lake Minnetonka area, shile uinnetonka Boulevard
provides north-south access to the easlern Lake Miffietonka conmunities.
25
(Excelsior Boulevard acts as the north frontage road) ' i{ith the future
restrictions to direct Ttl 7 access, the iuportance of Excelsior Bou,levard r,ill
i.ncrease as it serves traffic into and ou! of Excelsior via the christaas Lake
Road intersection.
second and Third Avenues on the south siale of TH 7 function as a Paired systen
ofone-waycol}ectorroadwaysforthelesidentialneig}rborhoodsouthofthe
HighHay. Hj,storically this area has bad adequate access fron the rest via
Division Street. The new Plans lor tB 7 decrease the accessibility froE the
west with the closure of the Division stree! access Point. Access to the
west, thich is Plesently poor, rill be further deteriorated by iEPleoentation
of the ultinate conditions of the TH 7 coffidor study. These ultinate
conditions, grhich r0ay include the closute of uorse Avenue access to ?H 7'
would eliminate the ;,short cut" route presently available to the Hest (HilI
street over TH 7 to Third street to l'lorse Avenue to TH 7)' The change in
access Patterns in this area, toget'her with the uPgrading of christnas Lake
Road to rnajor intersection statu;, will increase the inportance of the Second-
third evenie systen. These roadsays rill serve to cotlect residential traffic
on the south side of TH 7 and distribute it to the Christnas Lake Road
intersection fo! TH 7 access, or to CSAH 82 for access i'nto Excelsior north of
the highway.
THTL nkaqes
Two additional short roadway segaents -- Division Street and the extension of
Lake Street -- connect to rnijor highway access Points along TH 7' Although
these loadrrays are nog classifi.ed is uinor arteriaLs or collectors' they fill
an integral iole in the overall City roadway net!'ork' (C'S'A'H' 19 is also
considered a najor access roadway to tfr 7, ho$ever, that road!'ay is classified
as a ninor arlerial). The exten;ion of Lake SEreet forns, in effect, the TH 7
I-""=" .".p" to/fron the east. This roadway connects westward with both Lake
street and Second Street at the "six cornered" intersection' Division Street
north of TH 7 serves as a connecting roaahlay between the highway and Excelsior
Boulevard, the collector roadway Parallel to TII 7'
0ther LocaI oadwav N etwork r sues
Histori.ca.lly, Courtland street, a resitlential roadway, has had a bridge over
the railroad tracks that run through the niddle of the city- In the oid-
1980's this bridge was closed due Lo structural safety reasons' The railroad
right of way forrns a barrier to cross-neighborhood novements within the citv.
,ilf', "o croising available in this area, traftic is forced to divert to water
Street, the next cl'osest roadway crossing the railroad corridor ' This ls a
circuitous movenent for local tiaffic and adds to the traffic load on tlater
Street through doemtown as well. The City suPPorts the need for a roadway
ii;k;;" in tie courtland street area to providte adeguate cross neighborhood
novement for this Portion of the City'
PARKING
The provision of sufficient, convenient Palking is an essential elenent in
i"irri.i"i"g the counercial vitality of the downtosn area' The city suPPorts
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CBARACTER OF LOCA!' ROADI{AYS
The character and "flavor" of Excelsior is seen in Eany of its local roadways
-- as weII as in nuDerous other asPects of the Ctty, of coutse ' ExaoPles such
as narrow roadways, alleys, one iray streets or skewed intelsection ePProaches
reflect the tioe and setting r:nder lhich auch of the city developed. rhe city
understands the need for traffic safety and efficient alea access. lloereve!,
ExceLsior is strongly coanitted to saintaining the local chaaacte! of the city
and feels that any tlansPortation inProveaent Projects, especially in
lesidential neighborhoods, Bust be reviered with this in nind'
The so-called "six corner" intersection (the junction of Lake street, second
street, Morse Avenue, uil'} Street, and Excelsior Boulevalcl) with its
landscaped setting is an exanple of a roadway elenent that lends local flavor
to ttre iity. A1ghough thj,s intersection is conplicated in aPPealance, it has
not experi-nced oPerational or safety Problens. The oPerations at this
location should be nonitored with an eye toward keePing this alea in or near
its present configulation and state.
NON-LOCAL TRAFFIC
Lake-related activities and other recreational and conDercial activi,ties &aw
nany visitors to Excelsior. these visitors are often unfaoiliar rrith the
citt. In planning for the transPortation systes, the City acknor'1edges this
fact and will encourage desigms and oPerations rrhich facilitate triPs Dade by
non-residents. the uPgrading of the TH 7 access raoPs into dormtown to a
standard desigm will aid in the identification of Excelsior to visitors '
Additj.onal directional s!.grring to Ttt 7 fron irithin the city is also needed to
assist those not fanj.liar Hith the area. wj'thin the City, a corPrehensive
signing program to direct visitors to uuniciPal or lakeside Palking rould be
an asset. Additionally, roadway inProveoents or changes in loadsay Patterns
near the Corunons Park area could inprove traffic flos and access to that area.
TRANSIT
The MetropoLitan Council and Regional Transit Board (RTB) define transit as
all forurs of rlding together. The Melropolitan council TransPortatj,on Policy
Plan aakes a stlong coanitment to encoulaging the growth of transit usage in
the Twin cities area. The City of Excelsior suPport.s this effort and is
conrnitted to creating and aaintaining an environnent. which encourages fixed
route bus usage, travel denand nanageuen!, ridesharing and other transit uses.
The City also supports the developnent of Light Rail lransit (LRT) in a
corridor through the city.
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the use o! nuniciPal facililies to serve Parking generated by retail activity
in the dormtown core. The City will evaluate Parking denand needs on an
ongoing basis and will Provide the necessary level of Palkiag to suPPort the
retail activities.
Bus Svstem
The City is served by one regular tlanslt route, the uetroPolitan Transit
CoEmission (MTc) bus route 57. Boute 57 is a local route Provlding service
thlough the connuniti.es nea! Lake uinnetonla, as HelI as service into downtown
ttinneapolj.s. Atong rri.th this route, the City has a park and ride lot t ith
capacity for twenty vehicles.
The city of Excelsior encourages the linkage of local bus routes to regional,
express buses or LRT lines. The City supPorts efforts to provide north-south
bus roulings j.n the Lake xintretonka area rith bus€s directed to loute transfer
points on the oajor regional highnays. SiEilarly, the City suPPorts the
redirection of bus routes to connect to nealby L,Rt routes.
l.tinnesota Ri.deshare
Mi.nnesota Rideshare is a Progran phich Provides car and vanPool natching
servj.ces to individuals and etrPloyers. This service is utilized bl' a nu.mber
of Excel.sior residents and is a Eeaningful elenent in the overall transit
picture for the city.
Metro Mobl l i tv
Metro Mobility is a systeE of denand transit for the elderly and disabled.
The City continues their support for the Metro uobility Progran and Hill rork
with the Regi,onal Tlansit Board to help in Planning transportation services
for the tlansit-dependent population.
EICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS
The City strongly supports efforts to provide a gleasant and safe environeent
for bicyclists and pedestlians. Bicycle paths exist on several roadways
within the Ci.ty. Excelsior is connitted to naintaining these facilities. In
addition, the ciEy supports a bicycle-Pedestrian Pathrray through Excelsior and
adjoining Lake connunities utilizing abandoned railroad Prop€rty.
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TER PI,lN
rtre city of Excersior is enlirely serviced by the t{etropolitan t{aste ControL
Conoission intercePtor systen. id 1912, the City of Excelsior subEitted its
coaprehensive Sesei plan- (CSP) to the xetroPolitan ser''er Board ' The PIan has
sin-ce been uPdated, aost recently in 1981 ' the levised eleDeats of the serer
plan are discussed below.
SA}IITARY SETER SISTEI.T ANALYSIS
Metropolitan Service
The City of Excelsior is entirely sewered by ltetroPolitan llaste Control--
Coonission (MwCc) facilities. the City is served by Hlrcc intelcePtor t'tSB 7017
and MWCC Lift Station 19.
ThetablebelouistakenfrooMetloPolitancourrcil'swastewaterTreatpe$Eand
Handlins Policv PIan. rt contains th" forecast= of PoPulation' househol'ls '
e^pfi^."t ."d;"terrater flo$,s for Excelsior' The deaograPhic forecasts used
for developing the wastewater flow Projections are generally consiste$t rjith
the dernographic forecasts contained in the MelroPolitan DeveloPnent and-
Investnent Eranevrork (MDIF). The City agrees Hith the upper range Portion of
thisforecast,butseesnolikelihoodofaPossibleflowdecreaseasindicated
by the lower range of the forecast'
wasterrater Maflagenent forecasts
1990 2000 201 0
2, 900 2, 900 2,700
'l , 450 1,450 't,550
3,000 3, 000 3, 000
124-125 1r9-125 119-13{
SeHered
Population
Selrered
Housing
Sewered
Enploynent
l.lastewater
Flows (ngy ) t
*ailLion gallons Per Year
wastewater flow fron three adioining conEunities (Chanhassen' GreenHood and
Shorewood) utilizes the Excelsior sanilafy seUer systea to access the regional
trunklines.FlowfronthesethreecitiesrePresentsaboutl'ltofthe
ExceLsior total systen floH (about '17 - 18 ogy of the tolal 125 ngy flor) '
prj.or to 1989 the City rras reinbursed by the t{vlcc for flos originating in
other connunities. starting in 1989 t{vicc Policy changed to discontinue
gi"iti"g that revenue Phile a! the saoe tine overall Citv rates were not
ioreredl Excelsior has been utrable to leach agreenents with Chanhassen,
Greenrood or shorewood relative to those cities Paying Excelsior for use- of
its systet. this is a oajor issue regarding the sanitary sewer system that
29
needs to be resolved. Excelsior would relcooe ParticiPation by the uwcc in
assist,ing Excelsior to execute PayDent agreeEenls with the adjoining
cities.
Inflow and Infiltration
Excelsio! has no current inflow or infiltlation (I and I) ProbleEs. The City
will Eonitor their flow characteristics on .rlr on-Eoing basis and shouId any I
and I problens arise in the future the city nill actively rork rith the uwcc
to solve such Prob1eEs.
on-Site Serraqe DisDosal svsten
The city of Excelsior is fu1ly developed. As noted above, the City is
entirelyserreredbyui{ccfacilities.Noon-siteseragedisposalsystensexist
and City code Prohibits the construction of any new systens '
30