11-7-90 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CIIANHASSEN PI,ANNING CO!{UISSION
WEDNESDAY, I{OVEI{BER 7, 1990, 7:30 P.l,!.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5. Review of city Notification Policy for ordinance
DevelopDent Review, Coumissioner Erhart.
6. RevLew Applications for Planning Conmission Vacancies.
ALTOI'RNMENT
1
2
3
Site Plan AEendnent for l,lcclynn Bakeries to add a 52,972
square foot manufacturing addition and a 3,600 refrigeration
equipnent addition to the existing building on property zoned
IOP and located at One tlccLynn Drive.
OLD BUSINESS
FinaL study report for Park and Ride Facilities in the Citiesof Chaska, Chanhassen and Eden Prairie, Southt est l{etroTransit Conrrnission.
NEW BUSINESS
APPROVAL OF I{INUTES
CITY COT'NCIL UPDATE
ONGOTNG ITEI{S
ADI,IINISTR;ATIVE APPROVAI,S
OPEN DISqUSSION
4
and
File
Zoning ordinance ADendment to anend Section 20-263 (2),
Recreational Beachlots to aLlow portable chenical toilets onrecreational beachlots.
Zoning Ordinance ADendment to amend Sections 20-695, 20-715,20-735, 20-755, 20-774, 20-795 and 20-815 concerning all
commercial and industrial districts to increase flexibility inestablishing parking setbacks by adopting a perfornance
oriented approach to standards and an anendment to establisha requireroent for buffer yards in the IoP District.
CITY OF
EHANHf,SSEN
STAFF REPORT
PC DATE:
CC DATE:
CASE *:
Lt/1 /eo
Lt/Le/9o
88-3 SrrE
olsen /k
Fz
C)
=(LL
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E
ldF
U'
Conditional Use pertuit and Site plan for Expansionto the Uccllrnn Productlon Plant Facillty
Southnest corner of Highuay 5 and Audubon Road,L.ot 1, Block 1, Ucclynn park +.. : -- :
PROPOSAL:
I'CATTON:
APPLICANT:/// tlr.----:'
-lt /z /7". --
--z-Pc.--
fnc.
55317
Uccl]mn Bakeries,1 llcclynn Drive
Chanhassen, lIN
PRESENT ZONING: IOp, Industrlal Office park
ACPJAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND I.AND USE:
37 acres
I{ATER AND SEWSR:
PEYSTCAL CHARAETER.:
2000 I,AND usE PL.AN: Induitrial
N -IOP, Vacant
S -IOP, Vacant
E -IOP, Chanhassen Iakes Business parkI{ -A-2, Vacant
grater and sewer is avallable to the property.
The- subject property is currently developedylt|_ !lr" IitccUmn- .I{arehouse andt iooa pro-cessingfacillty. Ttre site alopes to the south toward!the lrlilraukee Railroad tracks.
t
,.
llccllmn CUP and Site Plan
Novenber 7, L99O
Page 2
SI'UUARY
The appLicant is requesting approval for e:rpansion to the
conditional use pernit and site Plan for the addition of a 53,000
sq. ft. production area and a 3,600 sg. ft. refrigeration/equipuent
rooro. The production plant addition is located 6outh of the
existing production plant and east of the office area. The
refrigeiation eguipment roon is located on the northeast corner of
the existing production P1ant.
The applicant is also in the process of e:rpanding the parking area
tocatld at the southe'rIy portion of the Eite uhich uas approved
adninistratively by the ptanning Director. The applicant .is
providing screening for both the parking .Iot expansi€n and the
ilant exlansion. rhe applicant is naintaining all .9! the existing-setbacks-. The expans-ibn is also consistent with the City t s
original approval of t{cc1ynnt s when aeveral conceptuaL. building
expinsions -iere illustrated. Site access and utilities vill remain
unlhanged. The building expansions Deet the reguirenents. of the
IoP Di;trict and staff is rLcomnending approval. of the site Pfan
and conditional use pernit rrith approPriate conditions.
BACKGROUND
on April 11, 1988, the City Council -aPP:oved a conditional use
pennit request for food processing facilities and Eite plan review.ior the Nctlynn Bakeries located at the southuest corner of Highuay
5 and Audubo-n noaa (Attachment #1). The applicant then revised the
building layout to iupport a different tylre of food processing than
what wai pioposed originally and also proPosed- to subdivide the
69.7 acre -parcef into one Io€ and two outlots. since the applicant
had already received the conditional use pernit for food
processing, Etaff did not require the apPli-cant to go, through
lnother Conditional use petmit. The original PIan for food
processing resulted in a fresh food product. The new PIan resulted
in a frozLn food product. Sl.nce the site plan had been anended,
the applicant was required to recelve an aDended site plan
approval .
on Augrust 8, 1988, the clty Council aPProved the subdivlsion of
59.7 acres into one lot and tuo outlots and approved the arnended
site plan review for a 151,?00 sg. ft. building for office,
uarehouse and food processing for Uccllmn Bakeries (AttachEent t2).
fhe site uas developed ln 1989.
In october of 1990, Planning Director Paul Krauss approved an
adninistrative site plan for a parking lot expansion for Ucclynn
Bakeries. The Planning Director found that the parking lot
expansion constituted a Einor amendment to the approved slte plan
and was consistent uith prior city actions regarding the site. fhe
l.tcclynn CIrP and Site Pl.an
NoveDber 7, 1990
Page 3
parking lot expansion did not require variances and did notrepresent a significant increase in the intensity of the use. TheadniniEtrative approval sas subject to sdveral conditions(Attachnent *3). The Planning Connission vas nade aware of the
1!ni119tr1tive approv-a1 for thL alte plan expansion on SepteDber19, 1990 (Attachnent *4). The parklng lot expansion is locited atthe southuest corner of the site adj acent to the existing parkinglot. Extensive berning and Landscaping uilr screen ttre pa-rring roffron views fron the Tinbernood residential neigh.borhooa ji--itea tothe nest) . construction uork on this'expaniion is cu'rrently inprocess. A gopy of the signed conditions of approval is attaLhedas an appendix to this report.
General Site Pl an./Architecture
The .applicant is requesting approval for expansion to theconditionar_ use_ pernit and site plln for the addition of a 53,ooosq. ft. production area and a 3,600 sq. ft. refrigerationZequipieniroon. . The production plant aildltion is 10ca1ed south'of theexisting production plant and east of the office -"-i"".-
Therefrigeration equipnent room is rocated on the northeast corner otthe.existing production plant. The totar rot ctveiige=riin tn.
?9d ti9n to t!" production plant and parking "i.i- i= 'ro.Zt
lnpervrous surface. The rop District arl0ws i naxlnun of 7otiupervious surface coverage. Tbe uurr.ain! -te-i-flTli-rr uemaintained at it's existing height of z8 feef and -a1t -ii=ti"!
setbacks- are being. naintained wi-th both the prant "xpi"=io" a"aparking lot expansion.
The building addition wirl be roade of the saue naterial as theexisting production plant- rn fact, it uili u"-c""sl.o"Iea ryrelocating pre-cast concrete_ panerB fion the existinj -xce-r-io-r warron the south side of the building to the southerly -exterior-warr.
since the plant expansion is fuither rcre"rrinf tir" -r-i-"-rr-.--ot trr"office area staff h1: r." objection,to this fn jrinclpaf-,-Iroi".r"r,ue are concerned ulth the-vIsual Lnpact of thL tarie 6ranx warrthat is eseentialry devold of archilectural intercit. - -irr" ,"=tfacing office corponent is architecturally a"J"piiur" uui-it isover'hadowed by the size. of the high_ bay section of the bulldin;:staff is reconnendins tha! the appricint propoae s"il -r"."=
"textending sone of the architecturaL- featureJ of the offlce Dortion
"{ _lh? building arong the_ southerry and ea'terr.y uari-oi-ttrE plantaddition. we believi that this cai be acconprtStr-a uy-i"ri"r,"" ""the creatlvity of the project architect. we do not iistr io tiuitthls- creativity but Selieve that Eo,ething noie- tii."- lirtti"gshould be enployed
Access /Parkinq
The site plan expansion is uaintaining the existilg access points
fron the lite to- Audubon Road. As Dentioned earlier, the parking
l.ot is being expanded for a totat of 464 parking sPaces. The
parking spacLs required by the Zoning ordinance I'E 290, therefore,
ttre ap-pf :.tant is greatly exceeding the requlred parking 5ta11s
requiiea by the ordinance. However, they believe that this level
of parking is required to meet their operational needs.
Iandscapinq
The applicant is proposing additional landscaping around the nel,
and existing parking lot to further Ecreen the parking area fron
the south. staff is recouraending that the Colorado Green spruce be
extended along the south entrance leading to the southerl'y parking
lot to provide additional screening of the parking area and the new
addition to the building. The landscaping that is being proposed
by the applicant Deets or exceeds the landscaping requirenents of
the ordinance.
Utilities
No new public utility serrrice nilt be reguired to serve the
aitilition. Existing rrater and sewer Il'nes uill need to be relocated
out of the path of the new expansion. These are private lines and
the relocation uiII be designed to Deet clty standards.
Grad inq/Dra inaoe
The bulk of site grading and drainage issues uere addressed during
staffrs adninistrative revieu of the parking lot expansion.
COUPLIN{C8 TABIT - IOP DISTRIET
ordr.papc. Propotaal
tlcclynn gUP and site Plan
llovenber 7, 1990
Page 4
Builiting Height
Building setback
Parking sta11s
Parking setback
Lot Coverage
Lot Area
70t
4 atories
N-3or E-30r
s-10r w-10r
290 6ta11s
1 Etory
N-45r E-158 |
s-+soor w-362 I
464 Etalls
N-45r E-300 1
s-+500r w-362 r
30. 7t
1 acre
N-30r E-30r
s-10r w-10r
37 acres
UcGIynn CUP and Slte Plan
NoveDber 7. L99O
Page 5
RECOUITENDATION
The site plan and conditional use pemit e:<pansion conforms to therequirenents of the ordinance and Btaff ls -reconrnending approval.
rThe _Planning Coronieslon recoDnends approval of Site pfan lgg-3 andconditional use Perrit #88-2 for trccr-ynn Bakeries for expinsion tothe p:oduction plant area and refrigeration equiproent roo-n as shornon -tle. site plan dated October 15, 1990, vlth the followingconditions:
1. The_ applican_t provide staff with a plan indicating how thearchitectural features of the office-vilt be extendid to theproduction plant addition.
2. The applicant sharr. provide additionar cororado creen sprucealong the Eouth entrance leading into the southerly paifingLot.
3- comply uith conditions of approval of staffts adninistrativeapproval of the parking 1ot expansion (attachrent).
Th
th
pplicant shall obtain and conply with all conditions ofatershed District pernit.
4 eaeI{
5. Working hours sha1l be betueen ?:OO a-.m. and 6:00 p.m., I.tonday' through saturday with no uork alrosed on sundays ir rr6r:.aaysl
6. To guarantee conpliance with the conditions of approval, theapplicant sha]I furnish the city eith a retter oilieail rrona bank or a cash escrow in the anount of SG,OOO. The securitywiII be released by the City upon satisfaction tfr.t tn"conditions contained herein have been conplied rith.i
ATTACHI{ENTS
1. city council minutes dated April 11, 1998.
?. City Council. uinutes dated Augrust B, 1988.3. AdninlstratJ.ve approval of pa;king iot expanslon.
1. Planning cornnission ninutes dated septeDbar 19, 1990.5. I{erno from Dave HeDpeI dated October 51, 1990.5. site plan dated october 15, 1990.
u
I
CINN}NSSEI CITY CCIJNCIL
NEGUT.AR MEETI}IG
APRIL 11, 1988
oUI\lCIEllE"lBERs PRESEm :
Johnson
c
APPRoVaL oE AGEiTDA: 6unci kran Gevirg mved, ttsyor Hami.lton Beclndd toapprovg the agenda as presented with tlre additiqr by councilman Bolt of acit)4ride trash pick-up r:rder courri I Eesentation. A1l voted in fivor argDotion carlied.
ClMEllT AGBIDA: t€]ror ltanj lton rDved, Courrilman Ccvi.ng seconded to al,!,rovethe followirg consent agerda iteaE [rrrsuant to the City fonager,srecqfiErxiat i ons :
a. Condi.tional lrse petmit Approval for Food processing Eacil.ities ardSite pl.an Revi&, fo! trclynn Bakeries.
Ourcilnan Ceving, 6uncj. Lnan Bo)rt aDd Councilman
Resolutj.on *88-29: !{i.nnewashta !€ado,rs Subdj.vision Ftitionfor Fublic Improvsrent File t{o. gg-2.
First Readj ng of Rezoning, $rbdivjsion and fnetlard Alteration peErdt
Approval for Minnewashta l€ado$rs, Gar)r Carlson.
I
e. &solution *88-29: Cable trelevision, Eqtrst to ltansfer o*rrrship.
f. Resolution i88-30: City IfaU E lEnsion:
1) Al,t,roval of plans ard SlEcifications2) Authorize Bids3) AEprove Archi tectura I tgresEtt
g. Accounts kyable dlated tpril Ll, 19gg
L
i. City 6urci I Mj nutes d,ated !{arch 28, l9g8plannirE Cqmission l,tinutes dated f,hrch 16, Iggg
All voted in favor and mction carried.
CONSE}IT AGB'IDA: (B) STJBDIVISIoN AlD WETTAIID ALTERATIoN PERI.IIT APPRoVAL, TAKENII,EA $OODS SOT}T}I, GEORGE NET.SSI NSGIATES. ' .-
Barbara Dacy: rtts obvior'. frcnr tjp staff r.pdate ttrat rE Bnted to follor rpdt the street coffEcti'r issue regardirE thi; suHivisio. ;iu, th" adjacents:bdivision to the r€st. rhat bei nq c,r&t plains colf E:srates. rarr! ero*r
I
tGyor tlamilton called the reeting to order. r?re neeting uas oEEDed sith ttrePl.edge to the PIag.
I
@JI€ILUE'{BBS ABSEIT: Cor:rriLnan trrn
SIAEr PRESEIr: Don AshwoEth, Barbara Eq;, ta1ry Brown, torl Sietsaa anCRoger lhutson
28i
t
CInNHASSE{ CITY @J}.ICIL
REGUIAR MEETING
AIJC.'S[ 8, 1988
&uncil.Dan Boyt, ourEiltran tbrn, ourritnan evins and
8:BEE PRESENI: Dn lstrrc_rth, bger trhutson, Gary tihrren, t rry Browi, BalbaraItscy, Jo Ann Ols€n, Jiru Chaffee ;rd lodd c";h.rdt
NP'O,AL OF AGE!{DA: 6r:ncilnan. Joktson mved, t'yor t'nilton seclrded toqpro\re tle agerda as a..rd€d sith the rorrqrinq itiuq,"r-"Gi]E"-c"rir,9Ented to disc,ss cunnrnigations uret ou"cii"Lesentations ard to rcve itsn 7to the first itsn after visipg r""*t ii*; -Oor.i:r." ,crn rranted to discussatreets; courci r'man Bort Ented to ai"",r"" -tL
"':?*., building arri buirdingconstruction hours; ard lAyor fErilton aarrt d-t" ctrsculis tlE BE@ks SDeretteprking area. Au voted ii tavoi "*
-tf,.'*ti.l
carried.
@NSE\rr AGE'IDA: Councilnan Hsrn mo\red, ourEi:aaD Gevirg seconcred to alpro\retlle following Consent Agenia itglls lrr"*nt to t}e City l.hnager. srecqrulerda tions:
_I b. Alproval of Liquor Licenses:
t 1. ff=Il:**tte, se4 west ?8th street, off-sale rbn-intoxicatir€
2. Cbanhassen btary Club, Cl Sale 1g1poraly Beer License.
c' rtct)'nn Bakeries, southr€st corner of Highmy 5 anal aldubon rbet:
l. subdivision Equest to sr:bdivide 70 Acres into cre rDdustrial tDt alrirrD O.ltlots.
2. site plan Evieu for a ,.6r,79g sq. ft. B:ilitirg for office snat rbodprooessing.
d. f,lprovat of -rditionaL use '=,-it to cststruct an 8g sq. ft. ry10n sign,. SulErAmelica Station, 615 Flytng Cloud Drive.
g. zonirE ordinance rnerdnent to Eovide liinimrrn B:irdirg and Farking serxacksfor.Brsiness, Cqrmercial ard In ustrial roG fa:""o,t-";;ii;il; ;Esidential Zoning Districts.
j. Binal plat A[frro\raL, C€orge tiby.
l. Alproval o! lccounts.
m. City Courcil Hinutes dated Jul.y 25, 19gBPalk ard Recreation &nnission Minot"" a"t"a JuIy 26, lggg
ail votd in favor ard tlre aption carrled.
3
1
I-
a
[a]ror E flilton called t]p reting to order. lte reeting rras o[Ened rit], thePfedge to tlE F1ag.
qJNCIL},I8,'BERS PRESEITT:ournilnan Johnson
CITY OF
EH[[IH[SSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. F X (612) 937-5739
October 15, 1990
ur. scott Harri
VanDoren Hazard Stall.ings
3030 Harbor Lane No., *104
Pl)rnouth, UN 55447
Dear !Ir. Harri:
I have revie!,red your submissj.on for administrative site plan
approval for the parking lot expansion for ucclynn Bakeries. Underthe authority granted ne by the Zoning ordinance, I hereby approvesite Plan #88-3 based upon my findings that it constitutes a ninor
arnend.ment to the approved site plan and is consistent with priorCity actions regarding this site. we further note that the new
approval. requires no variances and does not represent a signj.ficant
increase in intensity of use, our approval is subj ect to adherenceto the following conditions:
1. The applicant sha1l install all berning and landscapingrscreen the lot in accordance rrith the approved plans.letter of credit has been received in the amount
$211,346.00 to bover the costs of the improvenents.
to
A
of
2.The applicant shall supply storn 6ewer design calculations tothe city Engineer for revies.
A11 sanitary sewer uanboles ehal.I be constructed uith internal
chinney seals.
3
4
5
Erosion control fence shaIl be nodified to Ilrpe fII (hay
ba1es, silt fence and snor fence). A1I erosion control
neasures shall be placed prior to comnencenent of any gradingand once in place shall remain in place throughout theduration of the constructlon untll established vegetativecover has been produced, at which tine the renoval shall bethe responsibility of the appllcant.
Relocation of sanitary serrer and water lines shall beinspected by the City or by a representative appointed by theCity. The applicant shall 'be responsible for all inspection
llr. Scott Harri
October 15, 1990
Page 2
fees related touater lines.the said rel.ocation of sanitary aeyer and
7.
8.
9.
The applicant shall obtain and coDply vlth all conditions ofa Watershed District petilit.
I{orking hours sha11 be between the hours of Z:OO a.n. and 6:00p.n. uith no noik alloued on Sundays or holidays.
sanitary sewer and uater lines shall be tested in accordanceuith City of. Chanhassen speciflcatlons.
The letter of credit supplied, as outlined above, shall alsocover the conpliance with Elgineering conditions ot approvitand shaLl be used to cover inspection fees.
10. This approvaldated October
approved.
is linited to1, 1990. No
the work lllustrated on plansother vork Ls authorized or
4.r+f.Har4iPauI Kr auss, AICPPlanning Director Scott Harrifor llcGlynn Bakeries
to /,sla
Date
Michael trlcGlynn
6.
CITY OF
CII[!IH[SEE[I
690 COULTEB DRTVE . PO. BOX 147 0 6111pp15SEN, MTNNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUI{
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Paul Nrauss, Director of Planning
Dave Hempel, sr. Engineering rechnician e-1
october 12, L990
Review of tlcGlynn Bakery Parking Lot Expansion andUtiliry Relocation
LUR 90-29
Upon review of the grading, drainage and ut
by Van Doren-Ha zard-Sta 11i ngs dated October
following conditions for approval:
ilit
1,
y Plans1990, I preparedoffer the
1. The applicant shall supply the storm seirer design
calculations to the city engineer for review.
2. All sanitary serrer manholes sha1linternal chimney seals.
be constructeal with
4
3
6
5
Erosion control fence shal1 be modified to Type-III (hay
ba1es, silt fence and snow fence). All erosion control
neasures sha11 be placed Prior to conmencenent of any graaling
anil once in place shal1 rehain in place throughout the
duration of the conscruction uotil established vegetative cover
has been proclucetl, at which time removal shall be the
responsibility of the applicant.
Relocation of sanitary sewer and water lines 3ha11 be
inspected by the City or a representative appointed by thecity. The applicant shaII be responsible for all inspection
fees related to the relocation of said sanitary serrer anil
water l ines .
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conalitions ofthe watershed District permit.
Working hours shaIl be between the hours of 7:00 Alt and
6:00 Pu with no work allowed on Sundays or holialays.
Paul Krauss
October L2, L990
Page 2
7 All sanitary sewer anal rater lines shall be testeil
accordance with the City of Chanhassenis specificat
c! Gary l{arren, City Engineer
Charles Fo1ch, Assistant City Engineer
ln
t ons.
8.To guarantee compliance with the conditions of approval, theapplicant shall furnish the City with a Letter oi Credit froura bank or cash escrow in the dmount of $Gr000.00. Thesecurity will be released by the City upon satisfaction thatthe conditions containeil herein have beEn complied with.
jms
Planning Commission tleet i nE
September 19, 1990 - Page 16
possibly 5:3o or 6:00 and !e'd have the board set up so people could come -in and ask questions and g.t rn understandlng for r.,hat'! happening. Iuould uork uith the neh,spapers so the ncusplpers undcrstood. Againreiterated thc process and told pcopl. rhat's changed since th6 las! time -60 they can see if their question's bccn rcsolvcd or not.
Conrad: So r.lhen you lrorkcd uith thc ncxspapGra, you'rc going to show, thcgcould carry a map showing the final . They ahow a mrp?
Xrauss3 I'm hoping th6y can. It's tough for them to transcribe thst to ascale that they can print. I'lI r.lor k uith thcm on that. In fact I've got-
ono of the reportGrs coming in here tomorrou,
Batzli: FuIl page.
Krauss: t,elI that's r.rhat it would take.
Batzli: So in black and uhite you'd be ablc to tell the differcnt zones.
Krausss They probably urould ask us to pay for that. Lle could do that.I'Il try to find out b,hat that will cost. tle'I1 do that. Now, one of the-
reisons for the delay. last time lre met I gavc you a coPy of the memo that
was our response to the l'letro Council. l.le've bcen doing follow uP lork
up a meeting here lrith ebout 5 or
af ter noon . ].,hat we hope comes ou
where everybody's coming from. UJ
how we've arrived at everything a
the community because it's a safc
The meeti ng with i.lr . Thompson las
satisfactory in terms of his oPen
think that if we shoot for that O
comfort of knowing that thls m.etgotten some, if not agrcemcnt, un
with that. I'm not sure if ue haprior to the last meeting. I've
Kr.uss: Is tha! onc of the conditions...
Ycah, rre did uith Rich ThomPson
n contact uith Rich and he hes Setro Council staff people next l'londay
hat is ! bctter understanding of
d me!,
been i6 l.let
toft
hat the lssues are. l.lhat ue've done and
nd then re're going to givc them a tour o
bct that most of them havcn't seen it.
t braek or 2 nceks ago xcnt very
mindedness in hor.r this could Proceed. I
ctober 24th dlte , r.re sil I !t lcast have a
ing is behind us and that hoPefullv we've-
derstending from the l,letro Council on
where ue're comins from on this thine. Now I know ue discussed that last
time and we're not raitine for thcm to 6ry yeah or nay on our Plan and I
don't think ne have .ny int.ntlon of asking you to chanoe that but I'd lik,-to get this meeting out of thc ray. Stcvc Kccfc ls also havlne a brcakfas'
meeting out her€. The Chair of the l{etro Council is comlng out hcre nextueek. The l,layor's involvcd rith both of thcse nectings. ilrrcy Llaritz, oue
Council representative wlll bc probably .t boch of thcse mcetings as uell.
Conrad: That sounds rGaI good Paul . l'n inprosscd rlth all that activity.
Krauss3 If uc ucnt to october 24th, docs that nrc.t your nccds as ueII?It's an alternate tlcdncsday nlght. llould ygu prcfcr, I can havc Vicky give
a call around
Conrad: No|, that's l,lEA h,e.kend. But HEA docsn't atart until Thursday.
Conrad: tlell I'm going to takc some time off.
Krauss: I'll have Vick
tomorrow so wg can checlast thing. l.Je had antell you in advance if
may be coming down theand has run out of park
Enmings: Do you think rethcse grouing busincsscs?
act cvcrybody on thc Planning Commissionout. And I think that does it for me. Oneerc f rom l,lcclynn'a and I told you I 'd tryany admlnistrative sitc plan approval thal,lcGlynn's is adding cmployccs at a rapidaccs and nG6ds to cxpand thcir parking lot
nccd to ccalc up our perking rcquircments for
Emmings: Or lrhat,s the regular mocting datc prccccdlne that October24lh? October 17th. tiaybe that rcaulir mcetinb could be thc,
Conrad: Let me check on my rch.dul..
tot
cI ip
y cont
k that
item h
ure had
PiPe.ing sp
Emmings: Another one?
Olsen: They have room to do it.
Krauss: Except thev .have room to do it, ycah. r've lorked r.lith them andue've sort of clapped out a plan for how thev could'eJi .riri"ient stallsto get them throuEh the winter simply by, it docsn;t-iike-a lot or ciidirgbut it's an add on to some parking lot lhat they travc-nor.- I nould berequiring a landscaping plan for buffering from rimueruooa and alr that. rthink the parkins lot expansion irself is fairly i;ild;; ina rai.ts *iir,inthe pervieu of administrative approval . you rhould Uc-a"are thouEh houeverthat t'tcGlvnn is doinc a box office buslncss thcr6 and ts eoinc to ueadvancins their construction schcdure ana cxpinsi"rr. -inli-wirr also becoming in probabrv in a necting latcr tn Novcmbcr for a siie pran approvalfor a fairl.y significant buildine cxpansion.
Emmings: Is this on their frozcn stuff likc this?
Krluss: lrerl apparcltry r.rhat this is for, re t underctand it, and r don'tknow if this uas tradc gccrct or not rn;ivina irii U"t ttly-cot a largecontract to supplv brcakfast pastrics to 6ot of thc'Burgcr xinis in [tre--uorld and it'e a new-product and thcy nced to cxpand-io-iccommodate that.Now the parking problcm thlt thcy havc ls a probicn thcyiii - cxpcr icnci ngnor with their staff rithout thc cxpanslon n'hlch i. r{ht'f iccl' f can aJ-that under adminietretivc approvel-.. rhcy ntli-n"ia i-'i.icii parking lotfor this buildinc and rhlr uttl atl conc'doun to-iJui;;;;;;"i or tic-sitcplan.
into theIt rcally is
Krauss: That's likc so many things xe do Stovc. ft fallscetegory of they,re cach so diffcrcnt that you cen't gurss.tough.
Planning Commission HeetinE
September 19, 1990 - Page 17
Batzli: trhat better Hay to spend your tlmc off. Relax.
Krauss: rf that docsn't work lct me knor and, our agcndaes are obviously96ttin9 somer.rhat lleht. Nor{ Be'v€ got some itcms ln the pipelino uut iaiuerre can jungle a meeting or possibly GvGn a canccl a rcaula nceting .nJ-'--shift some stuff to a latcr onc and Just hold tt bccauie clearly ri f,are tohave a dedicated mceting for thc conprchensivc plan.
Emmings: ttho knous th6y're going to get a contract for 6Ot of the BurgerKings or something? I m€an no, lt'e somcthing llke that that docs itprobably.
Krauss! Even fAI Ivcrson was
door. l.,elI, Alue're trying to
emPloyment Er6uJ
assembly functl
Krauss: tlelI I don't know. t
have worked fairly uelI. It's
a business is growing as fast,
than I but when you'rc arowing
expand facilities rnd you tendyou're cramming more and more
construction aspect of it.
m business to busincss you knolt. $lhen wc torked l{ith ptiT
here last r.lcek talklng lbout parking on thc property ncxt
had a very eignificant parking problem on hls alte $rhich-ake carc of uith his neu addlti.on and that's beCause hisy lcaps and bounds and hc's got a ncdj,cal products
where you t.nd to pack norc pcople in a building.
ro
in
t
b
on
Emmings: t4aybe what we have to do is say our parking rcquircments aregoing to remain the same but H6 also rant to be aurc that you've got someland you can expand parking into ahould you n.ed it. I mcan maybe re have-to have some kind of a set, bc able to shou something to cet aside to get
some more parking on there because, now it's comc up 3 cases that I knoul otso i! must mean something's not uorking right.
ttItt
in
hlnk by and largc the parking standards
he exceptional ones that throw you and uhen
mean Tim can cxplain this phenomenum more-
hat fast, you don't have the capital to
o get the people on and the product out tndto tha site. ft gets ahcad of the
Erhart: Yeah, and I was rcal exclted about it. I think xc'vc finally
found something out of Met Councll that thcy'rc tceing rhat'a happened uitlthis 2 7/2 acy e Iot and I think thcy've got . move in thc right direction
here and according to PauI, I guess thls ls elready an adaPtcd Policv
change.
conrad: So if tre like the concept of this, lhat do rs nccd to do?
Krauss: I think you need to put it on a rork program and tall us to bring
back something to you that r.lould brlng that about. f mcan lt's clcarlygoing to require a change in the ordinancc and may rcqulrc a chsnge to som-of our policics. f uould lrant to epcak to. thig camc from Carl Loren uhol've never been quite clcar ls to hic tltlc but hc's falrly high uP in the
heirarchy at the Metro Council. t'd llkc to confirn tomc things uith him -bccause this ls. thcy arc talking about rural dcvclopmcnt lssucs. Flural
erca developmcnt issucs and thls pollcy lc probably golng to bc rcfined lnthat case but you nay have rcrd ln thc pepcr that Anoka County ls bisically
thumbing their nose at thc lletro Council. Thcy'rc also tclllng the l{etro -
Council that their policics rrc Hrong bccausc thclr policles, for thcm,
because the policics |rerc designcd in thc intcrcat of protccting farmland
and Anoka county Has n6v.r known for lt's farnland, 8ut Anokr County, -you've got 6ome of the communitlcs up thcrc uho ncvcr lntlclpate devclopiniat suburban dcnsitics. They'rc Pcrfcctly contcnt to contlnuc devcloping
r.rith hobby farms and that kind of thine and sincc thcy don't lrant env sewer_
rnd theorctically don't uant eny roads, thcv can prGtty nuch tell |.letro
Planning Commission tleet i ng
September 19, 1990 - Page 18
conrrd; okay. Anything else on that Bubject? Paul has ! note to us.
Hetro council rural dGvelopm€nt Etandards. Tlm, did you get a chancc to
review that?
clBY ot gEtltElSSEX
690 @ULIIR DBIVE
GEIIEISSEX, IX 55317(612) 937-r900
DEVEIODI{EII8 NE'IYIE IPPIJICITTOX
APPLICANT: Van Doren Hazard Stallinqs OWNER:ItlcGlynn Ba keri es
ADDRESS:3030 Harbor Lane ilorth. #104
TELEPHoNE (Day tine)5s3 - 1950 TELEPHONE: 474-7444
nEQUlgS
0 Conditional Uae Perait - $150
t) Interin Use permit - S15O
a Iand Ude Plan AmendDent - SlOo _
0 Pl.anned unit Developnent:
- Sketch Plan - 5200
- Prel ininary Devel opnent plan
S3oo + S15 acre
- Final Developnent plan - S2OO
- Anendment to Flna] Developnent
Pl.an - S300 + S15 acre
TOSAL PI'D
0 site Plan Review - S15o
0 Adninistratlve site plan
Review - g15O
0 Vacation of Utility orStreet EaseEent - S10O
0 Variance - Sz5
ADDRESS: One l'lcG lynn Dri ve
Chanhassen, l,lN 55317
0 subdivision:
Prel ininary plat:
- Sketch Pla.n - $200
- Create less than 31ots - $1OO
- Create nore than 3 lots -
5100 + S15 acre + 95 per lotlot created
- Final Plat - S1OO
- Uetes and Bounds - S1OO
- Consolidate Lots - $1OO
!oEl& SUBDTYISION
0 wetland Alteration perrnit:
- fndlvidual Sing1e FanilyIote - $ZS
- AII Others .- S15O
0 Rezoning - S2so
x
0 Zoning Appeal - gz5 0 Zoning Ordl.narce AEendDent -No Cha;,:r'e
I llrt of .1I prop.aty oracr! vlttla S0o toot otpaop.rty !u!t Ds ,.!clud.a rltL tl. rppllcatt oa.
th. bouadul.s of thc
Dcrty-tl' turl rlr. for6od cottr..r of tL. pl.D! rult b. r$Dttt.d.
I NorE. - r{he-n nultiple app-rjcations are processed, the approprlate fee shalrbe charged for each application
l,linneapoiis, l,lN 55447
I'CATION One McGivnn Drive. Chanhassen. l'lN 55317
I.,EGAL DESCRIPTION
PRESENT ZONING I0p
REQUESTED ZONING No rhanoe ren F<tFd
PRESENT I,AND USE DESIGNATION nfficp/indrrctria l
REQUESTED IAND USE DESIGNATION l'ln changp rcrlra<ted
REASON FOR THIS REQUEST Parki nq 'lot expansion needed for additional production
Dl ant emDlovees to meet orodu i ncrease and for coro orate trai ni no and
orientation oro0rams.
This application Dust be conpleted in full and be tyPewritten or clearly
printed-and Dust be acconpanied by afl Lnfornation and. planE .required by-
ipplicable city ordinance provisions. Before filing this. apPlication, .yousirluld confer with the Planning Departnent to detelaine the specific
ordinance and procedural requireDents aPPllcable to your apPlication.
This is to certify that I an naking aPpllcation for the described action by
the City and that I aD resPonsible foi coDplying uith a1t City r-equireDents _with reiard to this reguest. This application should be procetsed in Dy na6e-
and I Lm the party ihon the City should contact regarding any Datter
pertaining to this application. I have. attached a coPy of proof of olrnershiP
leither c6py of Ovnelf e Duplicate Certificate of Title, Abstract of Title or-
iurchase a-gieenent) , or I Ln the authorized _peraon to Dake this application
init the fee owner has also aigned this application.
I will keep Eyself informed of the deadlines for subuission of naterial and
the progrels ;f this applicatlon. I further understand that atlititional fees
Day be-charged for ionsulting fees, feasibil'ity 6tudle-s, etc. nith an
eslirnate prior to any authorization to proceed l|lth the 8tudy. The docunentB -
and infornatlon I have subultted are tr:ue and correct to the best of Dy
knowledge .
I also understand that after the aPproval or granting of the petmlt, such
pernits shall be invalid unless they are recorded agalnat the tltle to the
property for whlch the approvatr/perolt is granted uithin 120 days uith the --canrer County Recorderta office and the origlnal docunent returned to city
HaIl Records.
Oc* llarli l%o
Slgnature of Appl icant Date
SiEnatule of F€e orrner
/o
/E 0
PROJECT NAME lttcGlynn Rakerieq - Parking lnt expansinn -
Date
Application Received on to\r r \ga
Fee tS0. oe Receipt No.
Ihis application silI beAdjustnents and Appeals on
idered by the Planning Connis slon/Board of
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
CITY OF
TH[NH[SSEN
0(
UE!.{ORANDUM
TO3
FROM :
DATE:
SUBJ:
Jo Ann Olsen, Sr. Planner
Dave Eempel, Sr. Engineering Technician
October 31, 1990
Review of Mcclynn Bakery Site Expansion
LUR 90-29
In October, 1990, staff previously reviewed and gave administra-
tive approval on the grading, drainage and utility plan prepareil
by Van Doren-Hazard-Sta11i ngs dated o^tober l, I990. Since these
new plans deal specifically $ith the building, Engineering has no
additional cotnmenEs or concerns. Therefore, I have prepared a
report basically reiterating staffsr plevious comments anil recom-
rnendations in regards to the overall site plan rhich are being
complied wi th.
Utilities
The site proposes expansion to lhe existing building ancl
southerly parking 1ot rhich will involve relocation of the
existing water and sewer lines and reguire aalditional storm
seirers. Although the water and sewer lines are private lines,
the City should inspect the wolk to ensure construction Practicesare in compliance with Cj.ty epecifications.
crading and Drainage
?he grading plan proposes extendling tbe southerly parking 1ot$esterly to connect Hith the west parking 1ot. The gradi.ng will
require only ninor altelation to the existing site contours and
proposes no tree loss since the overall site was previously
gradeil to accommoilate future site expansions.
Additional storm serrer lines rrill be added to convey storm runoff
from the parking lots and roof drainage to outlet at the reten-tion pond in the southwest corner of the site. Based on storm
drainage calculations provided, it appears the existing atormretention pond is adequately sizetl to handle the additional
runof f .
Jo Ann Olsen, Sr. Planner
October 31, 1990
Page 2
Erosion Control
Erosion conErol fence (silt fence) is proposecl along thesoutherly slope of the parking lot expansion. It is reconnendeilthat this silt fence be nodifieil to the Cityrs Type III (haybales, silt fence and snon fence) erosion control.
Recoruneniled Condi tions
I. All sanitary seeer manholes shalI be constructeil with inter-nal chimney seals.
2. Erosion control fence sha1l be noitified to Type IfI (haybales, silt fence and snow fence). All erosion controlmeasures shall be.in place prior to conmencement of anygrading and once in place shaIl remain throughout the Sura_tion of the construction until vegetati.ve coier has been pro_duced at which time removal shal1 be the responsibility oithe appl icant.
3. Relocation or installation of new sanitary sewer and rraterlines shal1 be inspected by the City or a representative
:ppointed by the ciry. The applicant sha:.I L. ,""pon"iUf.for arr inspection fees relatLd to rerocation or r-nsi"irationof said sanitary serrer and rater lines
4. The applicant sharl obtain and conrply with alr conditions ofthe Watersheal District permit.
5. llorking hours sha1l be between 7:00 Alt and 6:00 pM Mondaythrought Saturday with no work allowed on Sundays orhol idays .
6. All sanitary sewe! anal rater lines shaLL pass tests in accor-dance rith the City of Chanhassenrs speciiications.
7. Io guarantee compliance with the conditions of approval , theapplicant sha1l furnish the City with a letter o?-credii froma bank, or a cash escrow in the aDount of $61000. Thesecrrrity will be released by the city upon satisfaetion thatthe conditions contained herein have-beEn conpliedl riih.
jms
c3 Galy l{arrenr City BngineerCharles Fo1ch, Assistant City Bngineer
CITY OF
CH[NH[SSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. PO. BOX I47. CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
I'tr. Scott Harri
Van Doren llazard Stallings
3030 Harbor Lane North, Suite 104
Minneapolis, MN 55447-2L75
Re: Ucclynn Footings
Dear ur. Harri:
You have contacted ne asking if there was any possible means byvhich staff could adninistratlvely a11or.r the construction of
footings for a ne!, 52,ooo sq. ft. addition for llccfynn in advanceof the site plan being reviewed by the Planning Conmission and CityCouncil. You further stated that Hr. ![cclynn recognizes that iffooting construction were to start and the new site plan was not
approved by the Planning conmission/City Council, that reBoval of
such rrould be so1e1y at l[cclynn I s expense and the construction of
such uould not be used as a reason for why the iten needs to beapproved. zurther, you stated that this early construction rras
necessary if the new structure is to be enclosed so that interior
sork can be completed during the uinter.
Planning staff aqrees that there is litt1e likelihood that the
proposed addition vi1l. be denied and/or nodified so aE to harm
earLy construction of footings. we also concur that the 70 acresof land ormed by ltcclynn equates to little or no chance of parkingor other site reguirements not being able to be accounodated rrithor rrithout ttre footing construction. Although it is unlikely ttratyour application uill be denied, staff is also sensitive to thepotential statement that by staff authorizing footings, why shouldthe Pl,anning Corn,nission or City Councll look at it at all - staffhas effectively undernined the Planning Cornmission I s/Council 'sauthority.
As stated earJ.ier, UcGIynn definitely has been a positive businesswithin our community. Any rray in rhi.ch we can heLp Ucclynn grorrr
and be a nore vltal part of our coumunity should be pursued. Irrould suggest a compronise. The iten ril1 be placed on to the
Planning conmission agenda for Novenber 7th. I see their vote asbeing critical and one vhich vil1 more 1ike1y include specific
Novenber 1, 1990
Mr. Scott Harri
November 1, 1990
Page 2
Don AshworthCity t{anager
DA: k
Please notify ne as soon asthis proposal .
S incerely,0 ez%
conditions which nay affect the footing construction. The planningConnission agenda .iq also being sLnt to the City Council.Accordinglyl tley wi1l. have receiied the proposal pri5r to their
T:::^.nS_o". Uolqa.y, [oveDber 5, 1990. As that ageldJ is relativelyLrght, r should have an opportunity to verbally-discuss this issuirrith the councir. r virr ttteupt io acrrieve ttreii -iji""i."t tt "tthe technicar conditions shourd- be responded to by ite rianningConmission .and, unles-s. soDeone objects tfonday evenilng, itit-.t"ttcan authori'ze h conditionat appioval of fo'otings ttrroring tnePlanning comnission review on N-olvenber 7th. The -iten wouLd stilrappe?T on -the city council agenda of Novenber 19th for finalconsideration and potential an6ndnent of all otrr.i- [non--Eotin!1conditions .
po6sible as to llccLynn.s reaction to
CITY OF
EH[I\IHISSEN
PC DATE:
CC DATE:
CASE *:
By:
LL/7 /eo
Lr/Le/eo
90-9 ZOA
A1-Jaf f,/v
STAFF REPORT
Fz
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Zoning Ordinance ADendrent to Section 20-263,Recreational Beachlots (2) portable Chemical Toilets
PROPOSAL:
I,OCATION:
APPLICANT:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ALTACENT ZONING AND
IJIND USE:N-s-E-w-
WATER AND SEWER:
PHYSICAL CHARACTER. :
2OOO I,AND USE PLAN:
zoA for Recreational Beachlots
NoverDber 7 , L99O
Page 2
BACXGROUND
on August 13, 1990, a variance request was heard by the Board of
Adjustnents and Appeals requesting installation of a portable
chlnical toilet auiing the summer seasons on the recreational
beachtot located on l,linnewashta Parkway across from Linden Circle,
for llinnewashta creek HoDeolrners. The Board of Adjustnents denied
the variance unaninousty (Attachnent #1). The ordinance currently
prohibits the use of chenical toilets. While there Yas some desire
to see the ordinance changed, it was believed that there itlas
insufficient reason to supPort a variance. The city Council agreed
with this deternination on appeal but instructed staff to prepare
ordinance amendnents ttrat woula allow for chemical toilets if this
could be done in an environmentally sensitive manner (AttachDent
#2).
staff contacted the Department of Natural Resources and the cities
ot na"t Prairie, Bloon-ington, Burnsville, Eagan, Edina, Minnetonka
and white Bear Lake to- find out if there were any reguLations
pertaining to portable chemical toilets. Each city that was
^contactea-reconiended that Chanhassen not adopt such an ordinance
amendment that woutd a1lov Portabte toilets. These conments were
due to environmental conceris and difficulty with nonitoring. The
ciiy-ot iinnetonxa had a Proble3 iri-th a Portahle -toi-Iet in-a city
piii wtri"i, was vandalized Lnd tipped over into Libbs Lake. The bay
ias contarninated and had to be closed for the entire sunner season.
ifr" O.p"iirent of Natural Resources views the matter in a different
perspective.
Portable toilets are not addressed under the state shoreland
suidelines, thus the DNR does not regulate thern. staff requested
3-;;;;;;r;ttii-"pi"iot fron the DNR. A letter from them will be
p.!"."i"a io tt "
-pt.rrrring Connission but they cornnended Chanhassen
i"i-i*i"g to deal uith a difficult probten. It was reco,mended
that tie ltructure be set at least -SO feet from the high water
,iiX, tit.t it be chained and anchored in such a fashion that they
"i""6t be easily overturned and that they would be pernitted under
a conditional uie pernit. The D11R staff luspect tlat the desire to
utilize portable toilets sitl increase in the future as conmon
accessesind outlots becone more prevalent. Staff has attenpted to
develop standards that recognize. that chenical toilets have
potential environnental and viiual inpacts. We also tried to deaL
iitf, tn" fact that their placement on recreational beachlots could
further inpact adjacent rLsidences due to odor, noise, etc' Thus'
the following standards are proposed:
1. A 50 foot setback fron the ordinary high water nark'
2. A 20 foot setback froB the side yard-
3
4
5
ZOA for Recreational Beachlots
Novenber 7 , 7-990
Page 3
The portable toilet be firnly anchored to the ground.
The portable toilet be fully screened by landscaping.
The portable toiLet shall be cleaned as needed to avoid odorand environnental problens.
The faciLities shall be constructed of naterials conpatiblewith the materials used in the neighborhood.
SI]I.{MARY
Staff continues to have concerns over the use of chenical toiletsin close proxirnity to lakes. However, the draft ordinanceamendment addresses the issues that have been raised to the extentfeasible. As drafted, cheroical toilets will be allorred byconditionar use perroit and wilt becone part of the recreationaibeachlot standards.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION
staff reconmends the pranning conmlssion reconnend approval of thefollowing:
Section 20-263, Recreationalfollows:Beachlots is hereby amended as
(2'
6
No structure, Irertab}e*eH*et-7 ice fishing house, canpertrailer, tent, recreational vehicle or slielter "iraf f'lEerected, maintained or stored upon any recreatj.onalbeachlot .
Add the following:
a.
(16) Portable cheDical toilets mayrecreational beachlots subj ect tostandards :
be pernitted onthe following ninimun
b
c
Front Eetback - 30 feetSide setback - 20 feetSetback from ordinary high rater Eark - 50 feet
The portable tollet shall be firnly anchored to theground to prevent tipping.
The portable toilet shal1 beconiferous vegetation.fu1Iy screened by
zoA for Recreational Beachlots
Novenber 7. L99O
Page 4
d.
e.
ATTACHMENTS
1
If a perDanent structure is built to house thetoilet, it shall be desigmed to be conpatible with
residential architecture.
The orrner shall be responsible for servicing the
toilet as often as required to elirninate odor and
environmental problens.
2
Staff report dated August 13, 1990.
Board of Adjustnent minutes and city Council Dinutes dated
August 13, 1990.
CITY OF
TH[NH.lSSEN
STAFF REPORT
E #:
By:
CAS
---.--_--.
790-5 VarianceUf:JatfA
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v,
5
Recreational Beachlot Iocated on llinnewashta parkwayAcross fron Linden Circle
Minnewashta Creek Horeoutrers Associationc/o Cene and Nancy Christianson
5561 Kirkwood CircleExcelsior, t[N 55331
PROPOSAL:
IOCATION:
APPLTCANT:
:Li. 5l.:ri i -
8- tz-9c
,.,---L:J-7c_hl,Etrl--
lrtoi |y ct, a,.".r*^.
Nta
rL t".-.: r e rr. r:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DETSITY:
AETACENT ZONII{G AND
I,A[D USE:
WATER AND SEWER:
PHYSfCAI, CHARACTER.:
2OOO I,AND USE PI,AN:
N - RSF, single fanilys - RsF, eingle fanilyE - Inke ltinnesashta
w - PUD, eingle fanily
Avallable to the slte.
The site is a riparian Lot to Iakel,linnenashta.'
Lw D€nsity Residential
eJA DATE: 8/L3/gO
CC DATE: - .-
Installation of a portable cheDical Toilet During thesumer season
PUD-R, Planned Unit DevelopDent ResidentiaL
Approxinately 9,500 square feet
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ltinneirashta Creek IIOA Variance
August 13, 1990
Page 2
APPLTCABI,E REGUIATIONS
Section 20-263 (21 prohibitsDaintained or stored upon any
t1) .
portable chenical toilets to berecreational beachlot (Attachnent
ANALYSTS
The. applicant is proposing to instalr a portabre chenicar toiletduring the su,mer seasons on the recrea€ionar ueicrriot -ornea ryl{innewashta creek Honeosners Aasociation. rne app:. icinl"- L"r i"r.that the toiret is necessary for the use of the ilachlot ana trratit _ represents a saf-ety inp-rovenent since rt woura avoiJ-';."iltpedestrian crossing trlinne'nishta parknay to use raci:.iiil= llcatedr.n therr hones. The-Zoning Ordinance prohibits such use. Staffconsidered anending the zoning ordinanci to allou 6rt.br;- tolretsto be instarred on recreati-onar beachlots ana -"""t."l"i- ott."cities to find out what their experienc! has been. rue Lities orE-den Prairie, Bloornington, Burnsvil.le, Eagan, Edina, f,finnelonia anawhite Bear rake were contacted and eich recornnended that the cityof Chanhassen not adopt such an ordinance anendment that eouldallord portable toilets. _The city of-Irrinnetonka had t pr;;ren vitha portable toilet6t in.a city park being vandalized ."a-irpp"a o.r..into Libbs Lake. "The uay wis'contirin.i"a and had to be closed forthe entire suEroer aeason.
A variance nay be granted !y ttre Board of_Adjustnents and Appealsor city council onlv if all-of the fo11owi"s-"iii"ii. ii. ilEt,
a. That the literal enforcement of this chapter uould cause unduehardship. undue- hardship Deans that tire proplrtv -""r-"t u"put to reasonable use because of it; iize-, pfrvsicafsurroundings, shape- or topography. Reasonable u".'f"-citae" .use pade by a najority of coDparable property vithin soO teetof it. The intent. of thiJ provision' fs'nol--{o ifi", .proriferation of variances but to recognize that ina aeveropneighborhoods_ pre-existing standaras e-xist. virii"""= tt.tbrend rrith these pre-e1!,s.ting.standards slthout E"pirti"sdorrnward fron then Deet thls crlteria.
* Btrff surcy.al th. .r.a rlthla SOO f..t ot thc b.acDtotald fouaal tro rddltlottrl b.achlotr that ar. l;ceto6rrthra th. .ur.y rr... !L. tro erc ld.aaivaJrE iiigii"a,'d pleasa't lorlr Bcrchlota.. Eoth ooDtar.D r eortalf.toltot. Ih.s. -toiI.t3 pr.artc thr zoatag -oiafaaacepertalalag to th. baac-hlotr, tfcreforlr' it.i trograDatfath.rtd la. gtrff doo! aot advocatd tlJ iae orth.s. tyo eriatl.ag DoD-coDfomttlog to ,upporf lr.ottatth. vuiatrc. rcqucst. to Dote that ua-l-lki iituacxg
t{innewashta Creek HOA Variance
Auglust 13, 1990
Page 3
b.
d.
rppli.d to !o!or or A.ct! otr n8l lot!, r portrDl. toilrt
La aot a prlaclpal or rcc.aaor? ur. o! r b.aahlot raC larpoclflcally prohlbltoal Dy tL. D.rcLlot ordlaaaoc.
The conditions upon vhich a petition for a variance is based
are not applicable, generally, to other property vithin the
same zoning classification.
*the coaditioDs ulroa rblcb thla potltloa lor r varlaace Lr
Dased 8ro appligablo E.lorrlly to othcr propettl.t rltblath. a.!e roalag clrtslficrtl,oa. |!hur, lt rou16 .ttrDllahr preced.Dt for all bcachlott.
The purpose of the variation is not based uPon a desire to
increase the value or incone potential of the parcel of land.
* Tbls aloo3 lot rpp.!! to br thc crt.. Tb. rPPllcrlt 13rtt.EptiDg to utlllto tb. porttDlc tollet aB rD 8.Dity
but thi! rill Dot hrvs a tlgrDltlcalt .ff.ct oD laad
Yrlu€3.
The alleged difficulty or
hardship.
hardship is not a self created
*atrff ba3 ittfftculty h fludiag tb. brlalthlp. rboD tbo
bsachlot ua! darigDatad rB a b.lchlot, tbs orlars uorafully rraro tbrt port.bl. brthaoolt ar. Dot . panlttaal
uso. Usoas of tbe b.reh ct! atlll urc bathroors rt tbalrprivato bonoa ae tLoir honor rr. locat.d rltbt'a ralklagailtaDc..
e
c.
The granting of the varlance uill not be detriuental to thepublic uelfare of inJurious to other land or inproveuents inthe neighborhood in vhich the parcel ie located.
i Thc grantlng ot tL. varlaaco rs!, D. dctrhcatal to tbapnbltc r.lf.r. lf tbe portabl. tollct tlppoll oeore la!.!ll.!D.ua3!tr uoulit b. lroUut.A. tD r.rpoE!., tLoaDpll.caltr L.v. v.Ebally ltrdlcrt.at thrt tbc, roulc Lavoth. toll.t ..nlo.d r! tr.Eu.atly r. roqulr.A rDO tbrt ttcoul6 bo chelarll to t)a.v.Dt ttpplag. !lb.r. t. r1.o tLrqu.stl.o! ot virual bpeot rlDo. Irort.blG tor,l.tr rra aotattlrctl,v. aor coarl,rtrlt ritl EoridcDtr.rl 6.v.1opt.Dt.
The proposed varlatlon yiII not lnpair an adequate aupply ofIight and air to adJacent property or .Bubstantially lncreaeethe congestion of the public atreets or increases the dangerof fLre or endanger the publ ic safety or rubstantiallydininish or iupair property valueE vlthin the ne lghborhood.
f.
l,linnewashta Creek HOA VarianceAuqust 13, 1990
Page 4
*
t
fhe port.bl. toll,ot La proporod to De locat.d to tbaDortbr.Bt ol th. psopcrty. tt Lr to bc putly ,cr..DodDy aD oa* ta... !o tho lorth ot tDo propoloC liorttoa oith. portrbl. tollst la ra-erlrttag irace. fho propotedportablo tollot rltt aot lryralr tbo ruppty ot ligli ra6rtr. !o_ rdJ a_oaat prop.rty Lut utll i- ra .y.!or. tgportrblo tollotr ar. Dot aD attraatr.ya rc.Dc.
RECOMUENDATION
Staff is reconmending denial of Variance *90-5.uould set a precedent for all beachlots andvisual and envj.ronnental problens.
rf the Bo-ard of Adjust,ents and AppealE and clty councll choose torecoTgend approval , then staff iould reconm--end the followingconditions:
1. The applicant shal1 work rrith staff to screen the portabtetoil et .2. The toilet shall. be anchored fitilIy.
3. The toiret sharl be naintained and creaned a ninlnum of tuotiues per week.
4. staff be directed.to prepare an ordinance revislon that uourcrallow portable toilets on all beachlots.
ATTACHIiTENTS
Zoning Ordinance Sectlon 20-263.Site. plan shoylng proposed 1ocation of portabLe toilet onbeachlot.L€tter fron applicant.
We believe that itthat lt could pose
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t 20-263 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
Recreational beach lotc shall have at least two hunrlred (2(X)) feet of l,ake &oDtsge.
No structure,lqlEElgghgBisgllEilgj!..ice fishing house, camper, trailer, tent, recrea.
tional vehicle or shelter shall be erecttd, msintained or stored upon any recreational
beach lot.
No boat, trailer, motor vehicle, including but not lirnit€d to csrs, trucks, Eotorcycles,
motorized mini-bikes, all-tcrrain vebicles or eaowmobiles shall be &iven upon or
parked upon any recreational beach lot.
No recreational beach lot shall be used for overnight cuping.
Boat launches are prohibited.
(6) No recreational beadlot ebdl bc ueed for purpooe,e of overnight rtrage or oveaight
mooring ol'Dore rhrn thre€ (3) motorird or aonootorized mtercraft per docl. If a
recrestioual beschlot ic allowed more'T. oDe (1) docl, however, tle dlored aurnber
of boats may be clugtered. Up to threc (3) lailboat EoffiDSr lhell dso be allowed.
Nolootorized watercraft such a! canocs, Firdsurfers, railboarda aad oall eailboats
may be rtored overnight oa ary reseetiond bechlot if they are rtotd on racLs
apecifically desigrred for that purpose. No more rLrn sir (6) watarcmft oey bc rtored
on a rack. The number of racle rhall aot erceed the lEou.nt of 3torsge Dslary to
permit one (1) racl rlip per lot aened by the beacllot; hrever, ia uo care rhall there
be nore than four (4) racts per bcec.blot. Ilocliag of other watrrcrrft or raplaaes ir
peroissible at aay tiroe other +hrn ovcrafht.
(7) The maximum number of docLs oa a recretional beacHot is three (3). No docl ahall
be permitted oD aDy reereational beachlot unless the beachlot Eeets the following
conditions:
a. Shoreline of at least two huDilred (200) feet per deh aad
b. Area of at leagt tbirty thougaad (30,fl[) equare feet for the firgt det aad adili-
tional twenty thsnrnnt @Q,0QQ) 6qurrE fect for each edditiourl ilock.
(8) No recreational beach lot docl lhdl crceed gir (6) feet il ridth, aad ao such docl
rhall exceed the greater of fifty (50) feet o tbe minimun etraigbt-line alistaDce
Decesaaly to reach a water depth of four (4) feet. llhe ridtb (but aot the lcagth) of the
coes.bar of any 'T' or "L" rheped doct drdl bc includcd ia tbe computation of
length deecribed ia tbe preoediag aeatpnce. lbe cross-ber deay euch ilocl rhall mt
measure in erceas of twenty-five (25) fcet i! lGDSlh.
(9) No dock rball encroach upot! aay docl. ret bacl rone, provided, however, thgt the
owner of any two (2) ebuttins bleshore Bit r Ery cr.ct oae (1) oommoa doct rithia
tbe dock rctbacL. zone appurtaDllt to tbe tbuttiag hleahore eitce, if the coaaoa
doct is the only dek on the tso (2) Lrteshor. .itG! eld if tbe docL othemire ouforog
with the proviaions of Otia chapter.
(10) No sail boat mooriag $all be peroittad oD .Dy rr.oprtioDal beach lot url€s it hrs .t
least two hunalred (200) feet of lrle froatege. No nore the. one (1) eail boet Eooring
rhall be allowed for cve4r tro huailrod (2(X)) feet d IeLe &oatage.
8upp. No. 2
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June 26, 1990
Dear Planning Cfimission,
Ie repr€sent th€ Xinneyasht! Socond and Thlrd Addttion Homoo{n€rs
Associatlon. tle ar€ r group of a3 hqn€oyners yho Jointly oyn rnd mrintaina b€ach outlot on the olst shore of Lrke llinneyashtr. Th€ro aro currently40 occupied hqDes ln rhlch 63 adults rnd 57 childrsn reslde.
Approximately 60t of those famllies use the bsach outlot regularly. 0n atypical yeekend, families remain at the beach outlot an rv€rage of 5 hourslonger if the reather ls prrtlcularly rarrn. B€sides the annual
Association picnic in July, nany associrtion fanilles host family
reunions, bi rthday parti€s, and small cmpany picntcs rt thls b€ach lot.
The Association represents comunity-minded people yho lre conc€rned aboutthe envlronment, H€ hEve denonstrlted responsibllity by nalntaining a
clean and yell groooed beach outlot. Ie have provided containers for
recyclables. He also e{nploy a natural layn service that uses only org8nic
materiEl to fertil lze our layn. f€ do not rant to hln Lake l{inneyashtasith unnecessary pol lutants.
The Association is requesting a variance to zoning ordinlnce section
20-263, specifically item 12 yhich do€s not rlloy a portable chsmicaltoilet to be erected, mlintained, or stored on any recreational beachlot, H€ are asking for this variance for th€ folloHing r6asons.
),li nneyashta ParkHay croates a potential hazard to any pedestrian
crossing it. Although th€re is a palnted crossyalk and
p€destrian crossing slgns posted, most vBhicles ignore th6m, lnd
fey motorists obey the posted 30 n.p.h. speed limit.
He b€lieve in a clean 6nvi ronm€nt and a clean lake to syim in.
Hhile ye rould hope .ll b€ach users uould take fh€ tinn to 90hore and use their orrn toilot faclllties, re knor this ls not
happening. Esp€clally rith sila1 I childr€n rho usually "run outof tlm€'. Tha portable chqrical toJlet cclllpanles re have
contact€d hrve assursd us that th€ unit rould be clerned a
minimun of once per reek or nor€ ofton if decrDed necessary.
There iould b€ no cost to th€ City of Chanhasson. The
Association rlll lsstnp a'll costs for th6 rental and nrintonanceof a portable chsrical tollst.
Due to the lack of ! clty mlnta'lned recroatlonal factllty ln or noar our
nei ghborhood, ye feel our requost ls fair and rorsonable.
1
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3
-2-
Please consider our appeal and grant r varlrnce that yould Ellor us toplace a portable chemlcal tollet on our boach outlot for suner seasonaluse only. Attached you vill flnd a;ap of our b€lch lot yhich lndlc8testh€ selected location of the portabl€ toilet. pleas€ noto th€re is alarge tree Hhich yould protect 1t and hide lt frsn the v.l* of llinn€rashta
Parkvay,
Sincerely,
.4^,-r',*,Z."*-
Gen6 Chri stenson , Pr6s i dent
Nancy st€ns€n, Co-Presi dent
l,li nneyashta Creek |lorcorners Assn.
BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AI{D APPE,AIS I,IINIXTES
AUGUST 13, 1990
}INIIBERS PRESENT:Jay JohnsonWillard Johnson
Carol Vlatson
STAFF PRESENT:SharDin Al-Jaff
Paul Xrauss
Willard Johnson opened the neeting.
Variance reouest for installatio n of a Dortable chenical toilet
durinq the sunmer seasons on the recreational beach lot located on
innevrashta Parkwav across from Linden Circle Uinnesrashta Creekhoneowners. Sharroin Al-Jaff presented the staff report. willard
Johnson opened the public hearing. Nancy Christenson,representative of the Minnewashta creek HoEeorrners Association,indicated that the Association plans to screen the portable
bathroom. when they first created this specific beachLot there
were five faroi.lies living in the neighborhood, today there are 60fanilies, the najority of which use the beachlot. llinnewashta
Parkrray is a busy road. There is a crosswalk but it is alwaysignored. She indicated that the toil.et can be chained to preventtipping. They do not plan on putting it in this year but they are
requesting that approval be granted for next year. They pLan onputting it in starting llenorial Day through labor Day.
The type of fencing is going to be a redwood fence and Nancy
Christenson indicated that the beachlot is very well naintained andthey plan on keeping it that way. They do not rrant to beconeoffensive to anybody. t{illard Johnson indicated that he has
received conplaints about City portable toilets at parks that have
an offensj.ve smell. Nancy Christenson lndicated that if need be,
they will clean the toilets every day.
Jay Johnson indicated that in the staff report there was anincident uhere a toilet rras tipped in Minnetonka and nhether Paul
Krauss nould elaborate on that. PauI Krauss said that Libbs Lakeis located at the far Eoutheast corner of Lake Minnetonka. IheCity naintains a beach and one night a vandalisro incident tookplace where two portable toil.ets rrere tlpped into the bay. Thebacteria count was very high as a result and they had to close thebay for the entire sunDer season. Paul .Krauss also indicated thatthis Eight not be the case in Iake Uinnerrashta. Thecharacteristics of Iake ltinnewashta night be different than thatbay, but the chance of vandalisn is sti1l there.
Jay Johnson iranted to know the difference betneen City and privatbbeachlots. He indicated that there is no difference betueen a citybathroon and a private bathrooD. He said that the City shouldstart norking on an environmental ordinance. It does not have tobe a part of the zoning ordinance, but that is the direction staff
Board of Adjustnents and Appeals Minutes
August 13, 1990
Page 2
should go with creating an environmental ordinance. paul Kraussindicated that the difference betueen a private bathroom on abeachlot and a City bathroon on a beachlot is the City nonitorsportable bathroons in parkls on a daily basis; and has directcontrol over them. In a case slrere it is a private beachlot, theCi.ty would be faced sith a difficult tnspectlon problen. Jayirohnson recoumended that staff take a look lt the city as a vholeto see what is a tenporary use and how it is monitored such as onJuIy 4.
tlillard Johnson cLosed the public hearing. ;fay Johnson Doved todeny the variance. Carol watson seconded Lhe uolion. A11 voted infavor.
Jay Johnson noved to request staff to further investigate portablebathroons and create an ordinance pertaining to portabie bathroons.Carol Watson seconded the motion. AU voted in favor.
Aoproval of Minutes: Carol Watson Doved to approve the ninutesdated JuIy 23, 1990. Itillard Johnson seconded - the uotion. AIIvoted in favor.
Willard Johnson noved to adjourn the neeting.the notion. Al1 voted in favor.Jay Johnson seconded
City Council t'leeting - August 13, 1990
ESARD OF BIOS: UTILIIY IELEHETRY SYSTEi. PROJECT 9O-3.
llayor Chniel: tho's going to address that 0ave?
Oave Hempel: Hopefully there's an individual fron 0sl1 here this evening.
oean Sharpe: Your honor, rembers of the Council, ny nane is oean Sharpe. I'rn
rith oSH consultants. Ue prepared the plans and specs for this project. le
received three bids for this project on JuIy 27th. They range fror a lor bid of
3270,595.00 to a high bid of 3.178,687.00. This project utilized
pre-qual i ficat ion of bidders. tJe checked raferences beforehand. Past experience
in projects of this nature and such. Ue pre-qualified four parties to bi
three of them did so. The lou bid re find to be rcsponsive. Have done p
Like this before and are presently serving the City and re recorrrend alar
Bent ec .
llayor Chmiel: Thank you. This is sonething that I have been hoping for us to
get for a Iong tine because over the overall run, it's 9oin9 to save us a lot of
do]Iars. A ]ot of labor and a ]ot of truck tine. A lot of checking aver),
mornings and Iabor costs are going to louer in itself so I can't rake the rotion
at this particular tine because ve're lacking to have 3 rerbers here. If one of
the Council people can hear it, I'd like them to come back in here rherever they
rray be. Toh?
Councilnan Johnson: UeII, re can rake the rotion and the sacond. lle just can't
vote on it.
llayor Chniel: Risht. I'11 nake that notion.
Councilman Johnson: I'II second it.
llayor Chmiel: It's been noved and seconded. Ton l,orkran, can you cone in
here? 0h Ursula. Never rind.
Councilnan Johnson: Just say yes Ursu]a.
llayor Chniel: There's a rotion on the floor rith a second to approve the auard
of bids for utility supervisory control and data acquisition Project No. 90-3.
Rcsolution 190-101: ltayor Chricl roved, Councilran Johnson sccond.d to lllrd
the bid for thc Utility Supcrvisory Control rnd O.ta Acquisition (SCAOA ) Syetarto Bentcc in the arount of 4270,596.00- AII votcd in frvor end thc rotion
carried unanirously -
VARIAI{CE RECI'ESI TO IXSIALL E CHE'IICAL TOILEI OII 6 BEACHLOT LOCATED OiI
NIXNEI'ASHTA PARKI'AY ACROSS FROfi LIilOEX CIRCLE. iITI{EIASHTA CREEXS HOHEOISIERS
ASS0CItTI0T{.
Councilrran Johnson: At the Board of Adjustnents and Appeals tonight re deniedthe petition. Although thare ras a lot of s.ntirent that thc us! of chericaltoi.lets at a beachlot aay be appropriatc vcrsus the use of the Iake for the sane
reason that the chenical toilet's used. But re tent ray beyond this beachlot to
say rell re've also got thcse at all of our city parks. Those adjacent to
d and
rojects
d to
?L
City Council lleeting August 13, 1990
rateruays and everything else. That it ray not be the zoning ordinance that
should be totally controlling port-a-potties or cheoical toil.ts and that,s rhyI've asked for it to be on the Council Presentation tonight so ue can get so.eaction on Iooking at the overall use of portable potties or chemical toilets
throughout the city. The people are still here froa the Association f see.
llayor Chaiel: If anyone uould Iike to core forrard and address Council in
regard to your particular project.
Nancy Christensen: l'ly nare is Nancy Christensen. I live at 5561 Kirkrood andI'r the President of the Association.
l'layor Chniel: You're atare as to thc position,' that the Board of Appeals has
revieued ),our subject ratter of a port-a-potty on your beachlot? As it appears,
there seens to be some inadequacies throughout the city and I really sort of
agree that ye should revieu this to cote up uith a conclusion and I think thisyear is probably aliost gone by the rayside unfortunatcly but this is sorethingthat rte can have at least an ansrer for this, at least for next year's beachlot
so unless you have sooething else you,d like to say, re,ll be lore than happy tolisten.
Nancy Christensen: lrell, it's not necessarily have a lot to say. I have somethings to say. That !,e have about 60 families using this bcachlot. l,te reallyfeel that it uould be better for our ecology to have a portable chenical toilet
on site rather than use the lake, the bushes or uhatever rhich is rhat peopledo. llinneuashta Parkuay is alrrost an inpossible road to travel or to cross andit's really difficult to send small children across it. you can't do it. Ue
have a crossualk and it's ignored. The 3 years I've Iived there, not one person
has ever stopped for ne or ny children. So for that reason tre feel that it's
soneuhat ol a hardship not having a toilet dorn there. Sonetires there's reallylarge gatherings and ure don't have, there's nothing there. Uhat do re do uith
100 people and that's rhy ue're asking for a seasonal use pernit and that,s it.
Counciluoman Dimler: I do have a question. 0n the tro lots that are there thatrere grandfathered in that do have cheaical toj.Iets, can sorebody address hor,r
t hat 's been uorking out?
Nancy Christensen: llell I have a letter fron then.
Counciluoman oimler: Are they seasonal?
ilancy Christensen: They're seasonal and the people I've spoken to fror there,
the President and the secretaries, they said thay've never rver had a problea.It's just there like the sand is there. Like the rater is there. People expectit to be there. They've never been abused.
Councihonan Dirler: And nobody's tipped it over? The fears that rrr. voiced.
Nancy Christenscn: No. And our beachlot rc plan on probebly, I'r not sure ifthis ye rill do it right aray but rore than likely ue'll put a cment slab dorn.
stake it doun and put a fence around it so it can't bc scen. rt can be cleanedin 2 hours notice. I rean it rill autoratically be clerned once a reek,probably tuice a reek, especially in the ronths of July uhen it,s rcally rarr.
22
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I
City Council eeting - August 13, 1990
I rean today rhen I ras doun therc, therc rere probably 25 people doun there.
llost of t hem children,
Councilman tlorknan: tlr. llayor, is this sonething that re can act on tonight?
Is this sonething ve're going to act on?
Councilnan Johnson: I have it also under Council Presentations but re can ioveit to this point just as casily and direct staff to look into it.
ilayor Chniel: Yeah, I think it rould be good for you to rove that up right nou
Jay to this particular one because it's one and the sane, So raybe if you'djust reiterate.
Councilnan Johnson: lJell basically re rant to look into cherical toilets
throughout the city. Construction sites. there should they be located? You 90inlo a construction site and they locate it right next to thc creek. Setbacks
fron retlands. Property Iine setbacks. The yhole use of chcrical toilets at
the 4th of JuIy celebration and rhatever. Nuibers for the nuibers of people.
llhat uere the problens in these other citics that they don't recoinend them
being on beachlots even though they have then therrselves on their city parks at
the beaches. I'0 not sure ijust dumped over and it ran
them. But if it's a .atter
soLved by anchoring then and
be visible from the street.
there to where you knor,r, if
Councilman tlorkman: Visibility is one of the problels people see rith then.
l'layor Chmie]: tle've had ours in the city park, Greenrood Shorrs park for thelast 3 years and ue've not had any problcrs rith that.
Counciluonan Dim.ler: And re have a honeorners association too lhere a lot of
people think it's going to be a good idea to put one doun there.
Councilman Johnson: You don't have one at yours?
Counciluooan oioler: No, ue don't. 8ut a lot of people ask about it.
Counciloan Johnson: Yours is a bigger horeorners association than thcirs. Alot bigqer lot too.
Council.uroman DinIer: Risht.
Councilnan Johnson: The thing is, thcre,s 9oin9 to havc to be a rinirurndistance back Irom the lake and all kinds of rulcs and rcaulations on hor to dothis before ue start granting ther. That's rhat rr proposing that r. rook intois rhat are those rulcs and regulations.
Counciluonan Oinler: Grcenrood Shores has had one huh? Hor thcy'd grt it?
llayor Chniel: It's a city park.
f the one in llinnetonka got throun in the lake or
into the lake. They don't carry that ruch stuff inof it getting throun into the lake, that can be
requiring it to be anchored. You ean require it to
There's lots of requireDents that can be put onit's aore visible it's less likely to be vandalised.
?3
Councilrran llor kna n:Cit y's di ffercnt .The
Ah,
the
Counciluoman 0inIer:I don't like that. I don't like that.
tlayor ChmieI: T hat 's
have it. Beachlots c
Councilman Johnson:It's the only place
nearast house.
point that I brought it up youI guess I don't understand.
knor. The City parks
an't .
But the one at Carver Beach is right up n?xt to the road.you can service it and it's probably 50 foot fron that
Councilaan llorkaan:Hou rany
Privat e
Bot h.
There's
beachlots on Lot us?
or public?Counciluoman Oinrler:
Councilman Llor kma n:'
Counciluoman 0inIer:
landi ns .
Carver Beach. There's ours. There's a public
llayor Chniel: Three that f'r aUare of.
Councilnan Johnson: 0h, rore than that.
Counciluoman Dinler: A public and tro privatas that I knor of.
Councilnan Johnson: There's tro private next to you and then there's a private
over on the other side,
Counciluloman Dimler: That's right but they don't do anything to keep up theirIot. There's another privatc one that is not kept up yeah.
Councilnan Johnson: There's at l?ast 3 private beachlots on the east side thatI knon of .
Brian l,lindschitl: Jay, iy name is Brian Uindschitl. f Iive at 6591 JoshuaCircle and I don't knou if it uill help you at aII but I feel cverybody has a
bad taste for chemical toilets. They've core a Iong rays. If they're tipped
over right nour, they're spill proof unlcss they,re totally overused. ltostpeople think of chenical toilets as like rhen they 90 to the State Fair or any
functions uhich they're over used tretendously. I lork construction so I'r uith
then all the tiie and lithin 2 hours I could have sorebody out there and take
care of it. I iean if sorebody cores in to r! and tells re that they don,t like
the odor or they don't like hor dirty it is in there, in 2 hours I can have
sonebody out there and have it cleaned so I think .ost of thc peoplc and
probably you people, the only ti.e you see then is at {th of Ju}y function or
State Fair uhera like f say they'rr just totally over used. They,re not as bad
as they have been 20 years !9o. I lean they've co.r a long rays and they are
designed to be.staked doun. Ihey have the holes right in the iunners. Kidsdon't even care to tip then over. That kind of rent out rith the trist too.
They're too lazy to tip theD over. You knor the other thing that re kind of
?4
City Council lleeting - August 13, 1990
i
Councilloman DinIer: Free uater and cherical toilets.
City Council lleet i ng August 13, 1990
Councilnan Johnson: She's dead. One is.
llayor Chmiei.: If you got a corsent fror there you'd be. Ihank you. Jay, do you
rant to finish uhat you rere saying?
Councilnan Johnson: Yeah, I do agree that the technology of chenical toilets
has changed a lot. I uas just at the Star of the North ganes and they aust have
had, or not Star of the North. USA Cup Soccer Tournaient end they lust have had
.10-50 of those things everyuhere but they had a truck continously 9oin9 around
emptying them at that thing. After spending sone tine in the rountains recentlyrith uhat they caII the pit toilets, no running rater or anything. Just a
buildine and the pit underneath it, this is a vast inproverent over that. y
gut reaction uithout actually getting any real study on this is it's better offto have a chenical toilet the proper distance a!,ay fron the property line and
the lake than it is for the kids to go in the lake and create a uarn spot.
Councilman l,orkman: I'd like to nove this along. I think rrre al] understandthat this is getting into the dog you knou rhat scooper rule here. I,n sure
everybody's auare and the honeourners are auare of the aesthetics. The potentialpollution problem. I think ue have to be ver)r careful about, because once you
say 90 on this, you're 9oin9 to say it. lle have 11 lakes or so and so it's
9oin9 to be a big impact and so I think ue're aII synpathetic to the situation
out there and r,rhat kids do and uhat even sone adults do rhen it's late andthey're drinking beer and everything else. And so I just think ue should be
very careful about hou, and I think that's rhat the Board of Adjustrents uas
saying that uhy did the Council in the past say, the ordinance in fact say noneof these toilets. If there's been changes and innovations then re should }ookat them and Ue should change uith the tires if it,s prudent but it's a very
delicate situat ion I think.
Residant: Are you talki
about or are you talking
ng about all size beaches? Is that rhat you're talking
Council.aan Johnson: our
about the Cit y?
apparently the City has special priviledges. lle can
apparent ly .
city park's not a beachlot.
it is.Councikonan Oialer: Yes
Resident: ...private eccess bcachcs?
Right. I'. just saying it,s noi just one Sttellite. It's
Councilnan l,lorknan: Uellput them anyuhere ue rant
Councilran Uorkian:
tany.
25
feel , being on the far rest end of torn is, ue don't really have a place for our
kids or for that natter for us to 90 and that is our Park out there and there's
a chenrical toilet on euery park in the city that I believe and I don't really
see a problem. tle don't have, I noticed in the Eoards of Appeals there they
said that they thought that it right be too close to the neighbors. UeII, the
neighbors got the letter and there's nobody here that rould have a problel uith
having it out there so I nean.
City Council lleeting - August 13, 1990
Resident: Uell hou nany tires has this been brought
association t hat rant port-a-potties?to you by another private
councilrran [,lorkman: r'n just saying, rhen you open up the gate then it's goingto happen probably everyuhere. I can sit here and predict sure but I lean.
Flavor chniel: r don't knou if you're auare but re do have presently a city codethat does read, no structures, portable chenical toilet, ice fishing houses,
canper trailers, tent, recreational vehicles or shelters shall be erected,aaintained or stored upon any recreational beachrot. lle have to change the codefirst of al] but r think vhat re have to do is look into it and study rhat,s thebest uay for us to 90 about this to take sure re're not causing any nore given
problenrs than uhat could exist. I guess that's uhat Ton is really say ri;ht?
Councilman llorknan: tlell Ursu]a's has said that they uant one.
Resident: So that's one?
Councilnan l,,orkman: Yeah. In addition to decks and everything e
have those variance requests al] the tiae and re have to say lookoverall. And again, it doesn't nean I,D against you having a, I'
as a Satellite, out there but once re say yes, then that's a part
that's 9oin9 to, sonebody's 9oin9 to cone in yith a deck and rore
Ise
atII
of
th
because ue
the
refer to it
the Code
e ot her side
t
ake
e've
ing
un
And
and all the lay around and it's 9oin9 to be. And so the overall protection ofthe lake is uhat I'n looking at.
Nancy Christensen: You can't say it's alright to use just terporarily on atrial bas is?
llayor Chmiel: Not according to our Code. Ue'd have to change the Code first.
Resident: B
you have a rl
crossualk t h
of snall chi
t his crosstra
police depa r
t henr . You k
and it sound
got like undthing. It i
home because
even the pol
set complain
ut uith that Code, rould it be taking into consideration that seeing
5 nph, tthich everybody drives 70 rph speed linit and you have aat these people are supposed to slor doun at and you've got a trailldren, 8,000 laun chairs, 2 alligators trying to get then acrossIk and it's very dangerous. I've called and conplainc
tDent because ry kids have alnost been pickcd off tryi
nou they've got to pee and you don't uant theo peeing
s trivial but it is a frightening thing to a snall chi
er 9, ue've got about 50 kids out there. ft's a rcals. You can't say lell just run hoae and use the bathr
you have to be there to ratch those kids to cross tha
icenan that I talked to said hey. re're not out here and unless uets, they don't cone.
d to the
n9 to 9ein the I
oot or rt ralk.
ld and u
frighten
Resident: You knou re don't have the sideualks and re don't have the bike paths
and re don't have those other things so, and being that the park is across the
highuay, uhat rother is 9oin9 to send their children. Right across TH 7, ratch
26
I
I
I
t
llayor ChmieL: I've sat out on ilinneuashta Parkray several different tires
uatching the speeds and not having a radar gun unfortunately, I rould say yes.
Thare are sone cars that do exceed their litits.
out for the seni's and )rou can go play not knoring rhether they're going to cone
back or not.
Counciluoman Dinler: PIus if you had rore kids, you're not 9oin9 to leave the
other ones at the beach unattended so you have to take ther aII. It's terrible.
I 've been through it.
Resident: It is very ruch so.
Councilrran Johnson: Basically rhat re're saying is tro fold. One is, re don't
believe it deserves a variance to the zoning ordinance in this case. Tro, re
believe ue need to knoy under rhat conditions re should have thcr. Ihat
distances fron the lake. Oistance frol lot lines. l,le nced r ore study. Third,
you're not 9oin9 to put it up this year anyray so thera's thetire involved and I
think that ue uant to Iook at it this )rear over the uinter ronths and Eet
sorrething going so that next spring this can be rddressed. It tray turn out that
re uant to say that any beachlot rith rore than blank farilies on it has to have
one of these in there.
Councilman Johnson: That's r,,hal ue'II be shooting for yes,
Ilayor Chmiel: That's uhat I'd try to do, yes.
Nancy Christensen: 0kay, that's fair.
llayor Chmiel: Thank you,
Nancy Christensen: Hou uill ee knou?
Counciluoman 0inrler: Ue'Il put it on the agenda.
llayor Chmiel: t,e'11 put it on the agenda again to discuss it and if you,d leaveyour name and address uith Paul and paul riII take sure that you have that.
councilman Johnson: r believe rre've basicalry given direction to staff. Uedon't really need to vote on that.
tlayor Chmiel: I don,t think re nead any rotion on this.
oon Ashurorth: No, because the Board had acted on it.
UETLAN ALTERATIOI{RI'IIT FOR AL TERTHG/REItOVI VEGETATIOX A CLASS B LAI{D
Jo Ann Olsen: You have the report rith all the history and this has baenpresented to vou before. re did send it to the planning corrission rho felt tobe consistent uith past action end rith rhat the ordinance states, theyreconmended denial. They did not feel that rhat ras being p.opo"id ra" "ninprovenent to the uetland. Thev did not agree that it should'be peiiiti"o.
Thev sort of Ieft it rith direction to the appricent to furthe. .oit iittr oxn,
27
City Council lleeting - August 13, 1990
Nancy Christensen: So you'II be able to give us an ansrer by perhaps next
spring?
City Council Heet in9 August 13, 1990
Fish and llildlife and uhoever to see if there lere a lay to rerrove sone of the
vegetation in a nanner that rould be seen as an ioprovenent to the cetland. In
speaking uith the applicant, they still rantcd to pursue it through the Councilto set fuII action to see exactly uhat the Council directs theo to do. I'lIjust throu out uhat ue did. Ue ca.e up tith a survey for the yetland shouing
the perinreter and the square footage. The applicants are proposing to clear
alay the vegetation on the easterly side opposite of rhere the city parkland is-
Rather than get into the rest...
liayor chhiel: And the direction on that Jo Ann, uhat direction fron city park?
tlould it be south of that?
Jo Ann 0lsen: No, they're directly east across the retland fron the city park.
Hayor Chmiel: t|ell the one south is Class A. Alright.
Jo Ann Olsen: Ihis is an old plan that kind of shots the parkl.and. Another
issue uas that there uas discussion uhether or not the applicants should be
required to pay the t25.00 application fee. There are tuo applicants uith this
and one of them has paid and Joycelyn hasn't because she ras given direction
that that uould not be required. t explained that that lrould be really a
Council action also r,rhether or not to see... So you can also act on that
tonight.
Councilnan Johnson: i25.00? The i25.OO ras paid?
Jo Ann 0lsen: Yeah. 325.00 has been paid fron the Bearrood's...
Councilman Johnson: Is it one application or tr,ro applications?
Jo Ann olsen: Tuo separate applications. There are tuo separate lots involved.
Councilman Uorkman: Are you through?
Counciluoman Oimler: I do have one question Ton. Oid you uant to 90 ahead and
coDment. I have one question. I rissed the reason rhy they ranted to cut the
vegetation. Oid you say anything about that?
Jo Ann Olsen: Ihe applicant's reason?
Counciluoman 0irrler: Yeah.
tlayor Chniel: llaybe if re have the applicant cote up and plcase state your nate
and your address.
Lynn Hughes: tly naoe's Lynn Hughes. ily uife's the one that sub.itted the
request, tlhat ue uanted to do is re ranted to alter the ProPcrty, or our
property right behind us that's classificd !s. retland. lthen re originally
purchased the property 2 years ago, it ras shorn that it ras a drainage
easenent. There uere no cattails. No build up of 'any kind of vegetation. Uejust r,rant to go doun there and clean it uP. ue don't rant to alter it. Ue rant
to bring in sone beauty to it rith rildflorers. lle'd like to get so.e ducks in
there. tle'd like to get all kinds of rildlifc so that's rhat re're trying to
28
CITY OF
CH[NH[SSE!I
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(512) 937-1900. FAX (512) 937-s7Q9
,.< 4r,,
t
IiIX}IORANDIJI4
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBf:
Planning Connission
Paul Krauss, Planning Director
october 31, 1990
L ,t ./////re __
///-r/.?- .
Proposed ordj.nance Amendnents Concerning Parking Setbacks
and Buffer Yards
PROPOSAL/SIJI.{MARY
The proposed ordinance arnendments presented herein are designed to
aaarlsJ two related issues. The first is the establishment of a
nodified parking setback requirement that stens from recent City
Council aition loncerning pr;posed amendnents to the Redmond site
plan. During the review of this plan, the Council conceptually
ipproved nodi-fying city ordinances to a11ov parking setbacks to be
rlbucea based on -a pe-rfornance zoning approach' Normal parking
ietbacks along exte.-rior property f.ines in IoP and conmercial
ai=iii.t= is eitaUlished at th; bullding setback tine. The council
lioposaf was to allow this to be reduced down to a roininurn of ten
teet contingent upon the applicalt denonstrating that the goal of
proviaing s6reenii:g for the- parking 1ot is achieved. The Rednond
!ii"- pi"ir accornplished this- goal through extensive. -berming and
ii"a"6"pi"g. statt was directed to return to the planning
conmission-and City Council with a proposed auendment
I" tit.-Z""in! Oraii.rrce that vould iroplenent this flexibility on a
;;;;;a L.ii=. The second Datter Concerns the estabrishnent of
;;i;;;- Gtds in the ordinance. The draft. comPrehensive Plan
in"o.pot:.t.. " buffer yard concept that is used to provide
ilaiii."ir separation betireen intensive uses and residential areas.
on the advicJ of the city Attorney, rre are proposing that this be
i".oip"iit"d into the or-tlinance to ensure effective enforcement.
staff took a relatively sinple approach in establishinS th9
p"ii". ."." standard for-parking setback reduction' The standard
fi;t-il;t be achieved td obtain a 10 ft' setback is that 1009
screening rnust be provided to at least a height- of- 5 ft'..above the
;;l;ili;6 larrinq'rot. rhrous! this standard, the citv can be
aslured itrit wfren parking is illo*,ed within 10 ft. of a public
.ighi-"t-r"v, that there will be no direct visibility of most
Planning Connission
October 31, 1990
Page 2
Staff recommends thatordinance amendments,
vehicles parked in the parking lot. This flexibility is only beingproposed on parking setbacks occurring along public rights-of-way
and would not apply along internal 1ot lines nor along lot linesadjacent to residential areas. The ordinance would prohibit theuse of fencing to achieve the 100t screening since we believe thisis an inappropriate way of acconplishing the goal . One coutdenvision a situation lrhere there would be a rolr of 5 ft. highscreen fences 10 ft. back froro public right-of-rray lrhich wouldcreate a canyon effect. By elininating the possibility of usingscreen fencing, the applicant rrould be forced to rely on bernintand landscaping to achieve the goal. It is proposed that thisflexibility be incorporated in the BN, BH, BG, BF and IOpDistricts. It is not appropriate to consider this in the CDBDistrict since this district has no real parking setbackrequirenents to begin with.
The. buffer yard concept as envisioned by the planning Conmissionduring consideration of the Conprehensive pLan is to establish arequireroent for additional setbacks where higher intensityindustrial office or commercial developnent intertaces with 1owdensity residential . It is envisioned that a 50 ft. buffer yardwould be established along public rights-of-way since the publicright-of-way itself provides further physical s6paration and- a 100ft. . blrffer yard lrould be reguired along internil lot lines. fnaddition, the buffer yard is in essence an additional setbackrequirernent and rrould lce figured cumuLativery with setbacksnornally required in a district. The ordinance iequires that thebuffer yard be designed to incorporate a nii of berrninj,landscaping and/or tf9. preservation to naximize bufferiigpotentiar. rt is considered desirabre that the nerd plantings b5designed to require a mi.nirouu of maintenance, hohrever,- maintenanceof the buffer consistent wi!! ap-pr9ved. plans wilr. be tie ourigationof_ the property owner. Ar1 obrigation for creating trre iurrerfal1s or the deveroper of the higher intensity use. -autier-yards
are ^to be covered by a permanentry recorded co-nservation eaienentsj.n favor of the city so that ue may provide anple assurances toarea residents that these areas wiit're perDanentr.y naintained.since it is.inpossible !o design an ordinanie that aal'quaieiy aearswith each site and particurar constraints or opportuni€ies iiroraeaby- topography and vegetation, i_t is proposea tfrat the city bealrowed to reduce the buffer yard reguirenents by up to 50{ whereexisting topographv. and/oi v"gdt"tiotr --p;;"i5"-- iiir".i'ssatisfactory to the city. -The appricant wilr-tireEe uriii." ordenonstrating compliance with thij standard.
RECOMI,IENDATION
the Planning Conmission adopt the proposed
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COT'NTIES, T{INNESOTA
lN oRDrnADrcE TUEilDIUG SEetrONS 2O-50t, 2O-595r 2O-7L5, 20-733,
20-755, 20-?71 lttD 20-815 nEGARDItTc PIRXIXC EEIBICXA tXD
BI'IFER YIRDA
The Chanhassen City Councll ordains:
section 1.
Section 20-695(5), Business Neighborhood District;
Section 2O-715(6), Business Highway District; Section 2O-755(5), Business General District; Section 20-774(5't ,Business Fringe District; and Section 20-815(5),Industrial Office Park District shall be amended by
adding the following:
e Parking setbacks along public rights-of-rray nay be
reduced to a uininum of 10 feet if the applicantcan denonstrate to the satisfaction of the citythat 100* screening is provided at least 5 ft.
above the adj acent parking lot. Acceptable
screening is to be conprised of benoing and
landscaping. Screening through the use of fencingis not pernitted.
B.Section 20-695(8), Business Neighborhood District;
Section 2o-7L5 (8), Business Highway District; Section 20-755(7), Business Fringe Districti Section 20-774(7),
Business Fringe District; and Section 2o-8L5(7) ,Industrial office Park District shalf be anended to add
the following:
A
c Buffer Yards: The City Comprehensive PIan
establishes a reguireroent for buffer yards. Buffer
yards are to be established in areas indicated on
the plan rhere higher intensity uses interface with
1ow density residential neighborhoods. In these
areas, a fifty (50) foot buffer yard is to be
provided uhere the interface occurs along a public
street, a one hundred (100) foot buffer yard is
required vhere the interface occurs on internal lot
Iines.
The buffer yard is an additional setback
requirenent. It is to be cumulatively calculated
with the required setbacks outfined above. The
fuIl obligation to provide the buffer yard shal1 beplaced on the parcel containing the higher
intensity use.
The buffer yard is intended to provide additionalphysical separation and screening for the higher
c
e
intensity use. As such, they uiII be required tobe provided with a conbination of berming,
Iandscaping and/or tree preservation to maxirnizethe buffering potential . To the extent deenedfeasible by the City, new plantings shall be
designed to require the nininurn of maintenance,houever, such naintenance as may be required tonaintain consistency with the approved p1an, shall
be the obligation of the property orner.
Buffer yards shall be covered by a pernanently
recorded conservation easenent running in favor ofthe city.
In instances where existing topography and/orvegetation provide buffering satisfactory to theCity, or where, in conbination with quality siteplanning this is achieved, the City may reducebuffer yard requirenents by up to 508. Theapplicant shall have the full burden ofdeuonstrating conpliance with the standards herein.
Section 2O-5O4, Planned Unit Developnent Section, shal1be anended by adding the following:
Buffer Yards: The City Conprehensive plan establishes areguirement for buffer yards. Buffer yards are to beestablished in areas indicated on the plan where higherintensity uses interface with low density residential.neighborhoods. In these areas, a fifty (50) foot bufferyard -i9 to be provided where the inteiface occurs alonga public street, a one hundred (1OO) foot buffer yard iirequired rrhere the interface occurs on internil lotl ines .
The buffer yard is an additional setbackrequirenent. It is to be cumulatively calculatedwith the required setbacks outlined ibove. Thefull obligation to provide the buffer yard sha11 beplaced,. on the parcel containlng - the higherlnEensr.ty use.
The buffer yard is intended to provide additionalphysical separation and screeni-ng for the hightiintensity lse. As such, they wil-l Ue required tobe provided with a conbination of berning,landscaping and/or tree preservation to roaxiniiithe lcuffering potential. To the extent deernedfeasibLe by the. City, new plantings shal1 bedesigned to require the niniroun of iaintenince,horrever, such naintenance as nay be reguired tonaintain- consistency with the app-roved plin, shal1be the obligation of the properly olrner-.
2
Buffer yards shaI1 be covered by a pernanently
recorded conservation easement running in favor ofthe city.
In j.nstances rhere existing topography and/orvegetation provide buffering satisfactory to theCity, or where, in corobination with quality siteplanning this is achieved, the City rnay reducebuffer yard requirenents by up to 508. Theapplicant shall have the fu11 burden of
dernonstrating compliance with the standards herein.
Section 2.This ordinance shal1 becone effective upon it's
passage and publication.
ATTEST:
Don Ashworth, City Dlanager Donald J. Chmiel, Mayor
(Published in the chanhassen villager on
3
)
CITY OF
EH[NH[SSEI{
590 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 . FAX (612) 937-5739
l{El.{oRANDt l.{
To: Planning Commission
rRou:
DATE:
SURT:
sharnin Al-Jaff
November 1, 1990
Adoption of Park and Ride Study for Southwest l{etroTransit Cornrnission
On August 1, 1990, the Park and Ride Iand Use Study prepared forthe Southwest Metro Transit connission by Hoisington and Associates
was presented to the Planning Cornmission. At that neeting, thePlanning Commission requested that staff prepare a review of thestudy and cone up lrith some recornmendati.ons, but overaLl the
Commission ras supportive of the study (Attachnent #1).
on August 21, 1990, Paul Krauss prepared a neno addressing the Park
and Ride Land Use Study (Attachment {2). A copy of the neno wasalso sent to the Southwest l[etro Transit Conmission. Staff's
response addresses in detail the transit denand management
strategies, future park and ride 1ot in Chanhassen, reverse conmutetrips, potential funding sources for new parking 1ot facilities
Located in the tax increnent districts which night a11ow Southwest
![etro to use TIF funds for acquisition and possibly developnentcosts. The finat draft of the study has been subnitted to the city
and southwest Metro Transit Commission is requesting that the cityof Chanhassen adopt the study. southrrest uetro plans on reviewingsites and possibly purchasing land for park and ride lots in thenext five years. staff ls recomending that the Planning
Co'nrnission adopt the final draft of Park and Ride study for
southwest Irletro Transit rlith comments addressing the study as notedin the neno dated August 2L, L990, by the Planning Director.
ATTAC}II{ENTS
Planning Cornmission Einutea dated August 1, 1990.Staff response memo dated August 21, 1990.final Draft of Park and Ride Study for southwest uetro.
1
2
3
Planning Commission Heet i ng
AuUust 1, 1990 - Page 50
Krauss: tle had an article on it in the paper and I think the material that
Gary sent out r.rith the survey described the program. Described r.rha!
anticipated costs would be per unit per acre.
Erhart: Haybe I'm getting off on a personal issue. I'lI come talk to you
about it. Anything else on this?
OPEN DI roN :SOUTHT.IEST }IETRO TRANSIT COIIT{ISSION PRESENTATION OF
INTERIH AND LONG RANGE FOR PARK AND RIDE LOTS FOR ITS EXPRESS ROUTE SERVICE
TO DOI.INTOI.IN }IINNEAPOLIS.
Fred Hoisington presented an overview of the Southwest l.letro Transit
Commission's plan for interim and long range plans for park and ride lotsin Chanhassen for it's express route service to downtown Hinneapolis. Hestated he uras no! necessarily looking for comments from the Planning
Commission at this meeting other than to ask questions so the Planning
Commission can understand what it is that the Southwest I'letro Transit
Commission is planning for the southwest corridor. The main point thereport wanted to get across was that the City was the one agency thatinterfaces during the development process with all aspects of the City,i.e. industry, private individuals, commercial , etc. to make sure thattransit is brought into the picture. Southwest Hetro Transit Commissionreally has no power but to operate the system once it's in place. Thereport first deals with park and ride lots. Secondly, it deals with travel
demand managemen!. t^lhat they're saying is that not every one of the threecommunities is going to deal with that in the same fashion but each
community should give it serious thought, The third thing is desisn fortransit which states that Chanhassen has to begin to establish transitcorridors. Hithin those corridors you have to besin to think about otherh,ays that development can occur. Need to begin shifting some thought fromnot onlv the auLomobile users but to transit users and besin thinking abouthow the City is going to accommodate for their needs. Fred Hoisingtonpointed out to the PIanning commission possible Iocations for park and ridelots that thev shourd begin thinking about where they $ant these siteslocaLed.
Hoisington: I would appreciate
how you Hant to deal uith this or
recommendations or just what butof response. If it's support or
whatever .
if you have a chance, paul I don't knowwhether you're going to make some
somehou or another we wou.l.d I i ke some sortthings that you think ought to change or
Krauss: l^te can prepare aask you back on that-review and a response for your consideration and
Erhart: Yeah, I think we'd like to see it come from youfilter this down a little bit how it relales to feedbacklooking for. overall I think the sense here of everybodysupportive of your effort there and feel that not enoughthe past.
E] lson: l^ie don 't uJant to tur n i nto Los Angeles .
r.lith comments andthat you'reis very
has been done in
Planning Commission l,,leet i ngAugust 1, 1990 - Page 51
Erhart: tJeII, Los Angeles is getting into mass transit so.
Hoisington: l"telI we thank you for the opportunity to be here and we'relooking forward to comments.
Emnings moved, Ellson seconded to adjourn the neeting. All voted in favorand the motion carried- The .eeting xas adjourned at 11:20 p_m..
Submitted by Paul KraussPlanning Director
Prepared by Nann Ophe i m
CITY OF
CH[NH[SSEN
}{EMORANDI'I4
?o:
FROIiT:
DATE:
su&r:
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(512) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
Planning Conmiss ion
PauI Krauss, Planning Director
August 2L, L99o
Staff Response to the Southwest Uetro Transit Conmission
Park and Ride Land Use Study
At our meeting on August 1, 1990, the Park and Ride Land Use Studyprepared for the Southrrrest Metro Transit Comrnission by Hoisingtonand Associates was presented to the Planning Commission. Thereport represents a corDprehensive attenpt to progran future busservices and most irnportantly, park and ride facilities for thethree corcmunities that participate in Southwest Uetro Transit. Thereport also has a component that deals with Light Rail TransitPlanning, however, given the rather long tine frarne involved beforethere would be any facilities built in this area, staff does notview this cornponent as being particul.arly inportant. The studyrsrnajor goal is to help the coumunities participating in ttreSouthnest !.{etro ?ransit locate park and ride facilities. Thereport also strongly pronotes the use of Travel Denand llanagenentstrategies (TDM). TDM prograns are proposed to improve tiansitridership while nininizing environnental inpact and trafficcongestion. Staff has been asked to review the report to serve asa basis for providing comments back to Southwest tltetro. Thisreport constitutes staff effort to conduct that review. Additionalcomments raised by the planning Conmission and City Council will beincorporated and also fornarded to the southweit xetro Transitcommission. staffts conments are provided in a rnatter consistentrrith the layout of the report.
ften {1
staff supports the rntroduction and purpose statements provided forthe report in general. chanhassen has been an active nlnber in thesouthwest l.Ietro Transit connission and supports the continuedexpansion and grorrth of the system. However, rre are concerned thatthis report is used as the mediun in which TDu strategies arestrongly recorumended for inplenentation. Staff conclptuallysupports the goal of TDI{ strategies and has been active iir trreii
Planning Cormission
Park and Ride L,and Use Study
August 2l , 1990
utilization in other cornrnuni.ties. I,le have also written tiInDOT ontwo occasions connenting on the draft EIS for T.H. 212 advocatinga greatly expanded role for TDIrI strategies which appeared to havebeen overlooked in the initial drafts. However, TDI{ strategiesthat are described in detail in the report raise a number of issuesfor communities that need to be explored in a comprehensive Dannerbefore they are adopted. TDII strategies range from taking steps toensure that developnent is nore [transit friendlyl and working hrithsouthlrest Metro to site parking Iot facilities to more activistroles of requiring industrial firns to implenent ride sharingstrategies and requiring development to either charge for parkingor develop an adequate nunber of parking staIls for the project onthe assumption that transit use and/or ride sharing would beincreased. We believe the issue is a very Iarge one that involvesfuture development of suburban coDmunities. It also involves anissue of equity. In itrs sinplest sense, if Chanhassen were toadopt requirenents of TD!,I strategies to achieve what are
acknowledged to be valid goals, but at the same time Chaska didnot, this would act as a significant disincentive for developing in
Chanhassen. Staff has often indicated in the past that TDM is avalid concept and should be potentially required for aI1
coromunities but that.this should be adninistered on a metro basis
wherever possible. lly own direct experience Hith TDlil strategies
occurred during my time working for the City of ltlinnetonka. That
cornmunity adopted a highly innovative TDl,[ program along the I 394corridor. while I support this sort of approach, I feel that it
must be stressed that Minnetonka is in a unique position in termsof having considerably more development pressure than the city
couLd acconmodate. This put the city in a position where it
acknorrledged the equity issues associated with TDU strategies but
since development wanted to occur in Minnetonka an)rlray the cityfelt that it did not need to take this into account. In sunnary,staff supports TDII as a concept and will lrork to encourage
reasonable Levels of implementation of these prolrrams in the cityof Chanhassen. However, we believe that the large scale progran
outlined in the report, is possibly inappropriate as to time frame
and that the southlrest uetro report is not the ideal forum for
developing a comprehensive approach to inplenenting TDl,! strategies.
Figrure 1 is a map of activity centers including Dajorintersections. we believe there is an omission on this map and the
Hwy. s/Powers Boulevards intersection classifies as a major one inthe city of chantrassen and should be ilfustrated for futureconsideration. we note that Powers Boulevard has a rather largeresidential conmunity and that it will be the major western
entrance into the Chanhassen CBD.
on Page 9, the report describes the chanhassen Park and Ride Lot
Located at the chanhassen Borrl on llarket Boulevard. While final
Planning Cornmission
Park and Ride Land Use study
August 2l , a99O
details have not yet been coropleted, it nay be useful for the
report to note that the City and Southwest tfetro are negotiating
the relocation of the bus stop to a more pernanent location located
on Land currently owned by the Chanhassen ERA on Bowling A11ey
Drive. This program has tentatively been reviewed by the
Chanhassen Housing and Redevelopnent Authority which indicated that
they were generally in agreeuent with the proposal but wanted to
see finished plans.
on Page 14 the report talks about reverse conmute trips. It
indicates that there is a potential for extending reverse connutetrips to enplolEnent centers as far as Chanhassen. The City of
chanhassen would advocate reassessing this program in the very nearfuture with a goal of increasing reverse conmute service to the
communi,ty. We believe that the enploynent base is significantlylarge at this point and concentrated in linited areas to make thisservice more realistic than it has been in the past. Largeconcentrations of enployees in single structures such as the
Rosemount, llccl.ynn, United }Iailing and other sites would nake this
even nore practical .
on Page 6 the report describes potential funding sources for newparking Iot facilities in Chanhassen. The report indicates thattentative sites are located in the Cityrs tax increment districtsand that the City has said it will consider using TIF funds foracquisition and possibly developnent costs. The report should notethat while the city is in favor of working to get inproved park andRide sites, that Lquity must be preseried i.n ttre- allocation ofCity funds to these inprovenents. That is, that the City iswilling to consider such funding programs so long as Chaskf and
Eden Prairie are asked to consider supporting 15.sg imFroveruents intheir cornmunities under similar terns.
on Page 28 the report discusses future park and Ride sites inChanhassen. Staff agrees that Site 7 at Hwy. 101 and 2:-2interchange is a site of prinary importance and hls already takenaction to pronote unDoTrs on procuring it. Site 6 is locited atHrry. 5 and DelI Road intersection. Staff agrees with theconsultant that this is an ideal site for a park and ride facilityin terns of location rel,ative to population Lnd work trips for theCity of Chanhassen. However, the ieport indicates that UnDOT nayassist in acquisition and developnent and the City of Chanhassenshould be encouraged to assist Bith TfF. It should be made clearthat to the best of our knowledge, UnDOT is not prepared to investin this site as a part of Hwy. S inprovenintS. Ilighway 5construction in this area is already designed and progra--rned anddoes not include facilities for park and ride. R;lative to thecity o-f ctranhassen participating with Tax fncrenent Financing, Irefer back to our earLier connents regarding financing in geneial .Southwest Uetro should assume that they wiII have t.o bdar sone
Planning Conmission
Park and Ride Land Use study
August 27, 1990
burden in the cost of developing sites such as this.
Page 36 is a point in the report at which Travel Demand l{anagenent
is described in detail . we do not wish to repeat connents provided
above, but continue to express concern that this report is not the
appropriate place to establ,ish a detailed TDU progran. I would
also note that there appears to be a conflict with Southwest
Iletrors prograrnming since the reportrs intent is to proroote TDM
measures in the conmunities. For example, it is noted that the
conrnunity sbould advocate site planning that prouotes the use of
transit as an alternative to single car occupancy. The report even
goes so far as to promote a fee schedule for new developnent and
existing developnent based on the number of parkingr spaces they
offer rrith or without TDII nanagenent pIans. At the sane tine we
should note that chanhassen has no direct service to our industrial
concentrations and apparently none is contenplated in the innediate
future by the report. In a sinil,ar matter, reverse commute to
Chanhassen ernployoent centers does not aPpear to be a retatively
strong priority of the rePort. Thus, there is a basic conflict
with requiring that developnent be dependent on transit without the
availability of transit.
The concLusion section begins on Page 45 and provides a detailed
list of 25 conclusions for the report. Staff agrees with the list
of conclusions and would put particular erophasis on #9 which states
tras devefopment continues in chanhassen, existing reverse commute
service nay ue expected to be extended westerly to accornmodate this
growing needu. As a last itern, we rrould ask that southwest Metro
[e"p a-n open nind to routing service- down west 78th street in
chanhasseri. This street does not land itself well to park and ride
facilities but is becoming a major focus of commercial and
residential activity in the connunity that nay ultinately warrant
direct service.
CHA}{I{ASSEN PLANNING COI,OIISSIOilI
REGI'-AR }IEETING
(rcTOBER 17,. l99O
PUBLTC HEARING:
NARY PLAT REVIE I.I TO SUBDIVIDE A-7 ACRES INTO 15 SINGLE FA}1 LY LOTSPRELIHI
ON TY ZONED RSF.D LCOATED SOUTH OF PLEASAN T VIEI.I ROAD AND VINELAND
FORES T PLAT AND EAS T OF PEACEFUL TROENDLE ITION.
Public Present:
Name Addr ess
Daryl Fortier
Ju.Ies Smi th
Jim & i.,lary Stasson
Brad Johnson
Jim Duchene
Craig t,le i nstock
Rodd Johnson
Linda Barr k
Sharon Mor ga n
Rob Drake
Richard tli ng
Sharmin AI-Jaff presented
called the public hear i ng
Fortier and Associates,
Attorney for AppI i ca nt
6400 Peaceful Lane
1OO1 Lake Lucy Road
951 Lake Lucy Road
1101 Lake Lucy Road
1061 Lake Lucy Road
95O Lake Lucy Road
94O Lake Lucy Road
98O Lake Lucy Road
3481 Shore Dr ive
Appl ica nt
the staff report on this item. Chairman Conradto order.
Conrad: tje'II open it up for public comments and we'll give the applicant
who is Fortier and Associates and Frank Beddor Jr., if Daryl you have
anything to say. A presentation or any comments on the staff report - t^le'lI
start it r", i th you.
Daryl Fortier: l,ly name is Dary] Fortier . I represent Hr . Beddor . l.le arepurchasing this property from t'lr. Joseph Troendle. I have a larger drawing
here and I believe each member of the commission has received an I x 10
copy of this so perhaps it'd be easier if I just show it to the audience
off to the side here so they can see it a bit easier. For the most part we
are in agreement with the staff report. tte do have two items that we'd]ike to bring to the Planning Commission's attention. The first addresses
the additional right-of-way off of Pleasant View Road. t^le understand that
staff is of the opinion that eventually Pleasant view Road will be widened.
l.le also understand that the Pleasant view Homeowner Association as welI asother people along the Pleasant Vieb, Road have fought this issue before and
it is a hishly charged politicalIy. Previously, I believe it Has 1981
there was a proposal to uidened the road and that proposal was rejected by
the City Council after lengthy debates. tle don't believe that there is anypolicy or program in place that would suggest that the widening of the road
Chairman Conrad called Lhe meeting to order at 7:40 p_m..
ilEHBERS PRESENT: steve Emmings, Ladd conrad, Brian Batzli and Joan Ahrens
itEltBERS ABSENT: Tim Erhart, Jim Uildermuth and Annette EIIson
srAFF PRESENT: Paur Krauss, planning Director; Sharmin Ar-Jaff, planner 1;Charles Folch, Asst. City Engineer and Todd Gerhardt, Asst. CiLy Hanager
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 17, 7990 - Page 2
is indeed going to happen. Therefore, Mr. Beddor is not of, he is also one-
of the people, one of the many who are opposed to the ulidening of the road.
Therefore he would not Iike to take any actions which tlould favor uidening
the road and that would include the giving of additional risht-of-way for
that purpose. He is therefore requesting that that be striken from the
staff report or not be accePted. Be reiected. tlhichever word we would
choose. He is not in favor of giving uP the extra 7 feet and he would like-
to see his property treated Lhe same way any other Piece of ProPerty along
Pleasant View Road r.rould be treated. Should the City decide thaL they wi]I
widened Pleasant View Road let's say 3 years from nou or 5 years from now,
this piece of property shoul.d be treated no differently than any other
piece of properLy including Mr, Beddor's residence across the street. You
would use whatever political consensus and finances are necessary to
achieve to take the Iand by condemnation or Lo purchase it and uidened the -road. It wilL be part of the same battle as the remaining 2 miles
of Pleasant View Road would be. So wiLh that background Hr. Beddor is not
in agreement to granting the 7 foot easement. The other issue we have to
discuss is the Troendle garage which staff correctly points out is 2l l/2feet from the right-of-way and this would put it in violation of the 30foot seLback requirement. tle have been unable to reach Hr, VanEeckhout whois the adjacent property owner but we believe, we have reason to believethat we may be successful in altering the alignment of the road such thatthe 30 foot setback can be required. If I can direct your attention to the
overhead projection, under Block 1, LoL 2, uhich is the Troendle property
where the garage sits, if you wiII look at where the road comes in from theeast which is the Vineland Estates, you'Il notice that the road does not
come in at a right angle. It comes in at about a 97 degree angle. l.le
would like to see that changed to 93 1./2 degrees. If r.le change it to 93
1,/2 degrees, it only affects 7 feel of property, Iess than 7 feet ofproperty on Vineland Estates. Hr. Beddor is willing to buy one of thoseIots to help achieve this- tje believe Mr. VanEeckhout wiII cooperate.This r^rill allow us Lo make a subtle adjustment to the road such that theroad wi]l not angle but the road will be closer to a true east/west. ThiswiII put Hr. Troendle's garage 30 feet back from the righL-of-way in which _case the issue will disappear. However, xe haven,t reached such anagreement yet and so as a result we are asking that consideration be givento a variance, a temporary variance. The reason we are doing this requestand we are going through these extraordinary measures in trying toaccommodate Mr. Troendle is that hi.s forks originally purchased this Iand.He was born on this Iand and he is now BO years old and has always lived onthis land. tJe, Mr. Beddor is granting him a Iifetime estate and has agreed-that Lhere r^rill be no development in the four Iots off Pleasant View Roadas rong as l'1r. Troendre resides in his residence. He wourd like to make itas comfortable for Mr. Troendle as possibre to see the urtimate deveropmentof his property without impacting his Iifestyle or causing him anydistress. Mr. Troendle does use that barn. I'm noL sure for the exactpurposes. He does park a car in there. he does do a number of hobbies inthere. He is consLantly in the yard so we are requesting that a temporary -variance for a non-conforming use of that garage in terms of seLbacks begranLed only so Iong as Hr. Troendle personally resides in the residence.rf he shourd become ilr and require long term care which would not enablehim tq return, we would agr6e to immediately dismantle Lhat garage or
remove it. Similarly, if for some reason he were to decide to seII hispiece of property we trould similarly agree that it would be immediatelyremoved, [.re are asking this only as a consideration for Mr. Troend]e's
Planning Commission I'leet i n9
October !7, 1990 - Page 3
comfort and care and it really does not affect the deveropment. He urirltry our best to get the road moved but failing to do that, we would askthat the variance be granted. The other items we have are realry no longerissues. r've not had a chance to review the issue of a shared access ofiPreasant View for Lots l and 4 and I,ve had a brief chance to review LrithMr. Beddor the idea of park dedicaLion fees in lieu of parkland. r've alsotalked to staff and they've indicated that they have some concern wi.th Lot4 of Block 1uhich is immediatelv off Pleasant View. There was concern asto whether or not this area uas filled or whether it was a u,etland. trewould Iike the opportuniLy to talk to Park and Recreation and considergiving that Iot to Park and Recreation for a vest pocke! sort of park. Anddepending upon how the wetlands adjacent Lo it on Lhe Art Owen's propertyis defined, it may turn out to be a very fine addition as a park. [.Je arenot in favor or opposed to that. t,e are simply saying that option shouldbe left open. Park and Recreation may not have a chance to realize that wewould be willing to donate that land. Any questions I'II be pleased to
answer ?
Conrad: Okay.other comments.
].le']1 probably have some later on. [.Je'II open it up for
Are there any?
Jim Stasson: My name is Jim Stasson. I ]ive at 6400 Peaceful Lane. My
house is this house right here with the brown roof on the corner. Back
when the Vineland Forest thing was developed, h,e h,ere never notified
through mail by the City that anything uras going on there and asI understand when it was first developed it real]y didn't affect us becausethe access to that was going to go right out to Pleasant View Road. Risht
now if you could see, they plan on running this right over here to Peacefu]
Lane and ue're going to have, instead of 3 houses connecting to
Peaceful Lane, an infinite amount of houses. That Peaceful Lane a.Lso has avery wide radius corner uhich people do not slot^r down to go arou.nd at aII.
Uith 3 houses there it's not too bad, although Art owens has a big family
and Sunday afternoons it can be quite a traffic jam in there. Hr. Beddor
seems to be going to gain out of this and we're going to pay the biII by
having all the traffic go by our house. t^le don't really think that's fair-
He's so far off of Pleasant View Road, you can see his tennis court between
the road and his house. He moved his driveway and took a good half a dozen
trees off of l,1r . Troendle's lot. [.le're talking big trees and p]anted them
aII on so he doesn't see any of the traffic. I guess I'd do the same thing
if I was in the position to be able to do that. Peaceful Lane is a 27 fooL
road. The mouth of Peaceful Lane is 13O feet. If noLhing else, we've
talked to Jim Chaffee when he was the safety guy. t"le talked to him 2 vears
ago the last year. I realize he's no Ionger here' He said he r*ould report
back to us on you know, whether they could square Lhat corner off and we've
never heard anything from him, or from anybody. So thank you.
Conrad: Good comments. Thank you. Other comments.
Rodd Johnson: I'm Rodd Johnson from 1061 Lake Lucy Road. The issue I see
at hand for myself and the homeowners along the street that we're on is
number one, it's open already back to Nez Perce and we get a Iot of Lraffic
that xay. Sure I'd like to see that closed off at the end but I know thaL
won't happen necessarily from what I can see. And I'm not necessarily
opposed to developing the land in here in that I also built a house and the
Iand was developed but t"rhat I have a Problem urith is that if the, and this
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October t7, t99O - Page 4
is corrected to r^rhat I see, is Lhat they're going to Put it through but I
don't Iike the way that it's going to go through number one. I think it
should 9o straighL across. Due to the fact that if it doesn't go straight
across to Pleasant View, people are going to be more aPt Lo come down the
road that I'm on now anyr.Jay because it's straight. I mean they're already
going doh,n it at 4o or 45 r.lhich has been witnessed by everybody that's on
the road. And the second we have emergency vehicle access. I look at that-
and think the route in and out of there would be better facilitated to go
straisht throush. I have to kind of chuckle the way that it's been all of
a sudden altered around the guy that's developing his ProPerty. It's noL,
it seems a little Iike he doesn't want to bear his Part of the burden yet
he's going to make the money on aII this and that is kind of outrageous.
conrad: Thanks. Maybe I should just interject and maybe you tleren't
involved in previous hearings bu! ue have been and maybe you weren't
notified simply because you may not have been within the notificaLion
distance and we have some standards of who gets notified. I'm not sure but-that's a quick guess. In the past urhen we've Iooked at this parcel , other
homeowners in the area have been real concerned where the road's go and itwasn't Mr. Beddor as much as it u,as other homeowners along Pleasant View.
They weren't, alLhough it does Iook Iike it benefits Mr. Beddor and itprobably does, I think the other homeor.Jners urere pretty consistent in termsof what they wanted. Especially the neighbor that that road uould have
gone right next to, within a few feet of his door and I recall thal veryclearly feeling rather concerned for a roadulay given uhat he's Iived in fora while. You probabLy have the same concerns understandably.
Mary Stasson: But that neighbor was also a renter.
Conrad: I wasn't aware of that. Yes sir.
Erad Johnson: I'm Brad Johnson. I Iive at 1OO1 Lake Lucy Road. tle'rejust concerned about additional lots here. It Iooks like there'II be what,13 additional lots that wouLd have their only access to the trunk highwaythrough Lake Lucy Road. I don't beLieve Lake Lucy Road east of CR 17 wasintended as a major thoroughfare from it.'s construction, design and width.As Rodd already said, we've got an awful lot of traffic there as it is. Ithink it's unfair that He bear the fuII burden of the traffic out of boththe current development and this proposed one. r know that they're showingthis road supposedly goins through to peaceful Lane. That's kind ofpresumptious. They don't own Lhe land. They don't know that they canacquire the land. They don't know that they can develop there even when itwould be available for acquisition. I'm sure people on pleasant View havesome concerns. So do ue. The burden should be shared fairly.
Conradr It's a funny thing how everybody does seII their land and wethey didn't, some of us who've been around a r.rhile but you're right.There's no guarantee that that property will be subdivided but ii's,in Chanhassen is extremely vaIuabIe.
wish
Iand
Resident: Someday. 20 years from nowover by one of t.he fast cars on there.once every 3 months.
kids have maybe beena police car through
when my
t,e get
Conrad: Other comments.
run
ther e
Daryl Fortier: If I can just address some of the concerns of Hr. BradJohnson has raised. The extension of the road through Mr. Owens, propertyis not as presumptious as it may seem. t^le have already studies grades.He've already studied roadways. tle've already studied utiliLies and wehave submitted much of that material to sLaff. l.le've arso more importantrytalked to Mr. ArL Owens, the ou,ner of the land who would favor this and heis on public record of favoring it.
ResidenL: l^lhen?
Daryl Fortier:tle talked to Hr. Art Owens
t^rould this happen?
We don't know- Mr. Owens
issue of urhen does Pleasant
within.
ResidenL: tlhen
Resident: tle live there now.
Dary.L Fortier: Yes. And people are driving down Pleasant View righl now
and people are driving down Nez Perce. Nez Perce at points only measures
22 feeL wide and people are flying through there. tJe believe, now I don't
tJant to expand this r.rhole argument on one parcel of development to a whole
city wide issue but we know there are apparent limitations in every city
and some of the Iimitations are particular bottlenecks and I'm sure the
city wiII do it's best to correct them. That's beyond the scope of this
proposal . The proposal wiII really reduce density as proposed to other
proposals - Not to you and not to other people but the overall development,
it is following in a fairly good comprehensive PIan that has been directed.
My whole point of being up here is not to defend al] of those issues but
simply to point out to you that Mr. Art owens is aware of this. Hr. Art
Owens has been cooperaLive and he would favor this proPosa] .
Resident: I noLiced you said bottleneck, making sure that there isn't
Wouldn'! it be more of a bottleneck going that route than it urould be
straight through to Pleasant view?
one.to go
Daryl Forlier:
simi Iar to Lhe
know.
is right noul tied up.
View get widened. t^le
It isdon't
Kraussr Hr. Chairman, could I address this because there's some
information in Daryl's plan and I'd Iike to give some background
misleadi ng
on it.
Conrad: Uhy don't you address the Peaceful Lane issue too if you can.
KTauss: Yeah, I will. We first became involved with this utith the
Vineland Forest plat which is the chunk of land that's immediatelv east of
the subject site. There were a number of alternative access concePts
looked at for that including cul-de-sacs from Pleasant View. CuI-de-sacs
from Nez Perce. Throughout it all staff advocated a thru street. t,e
thought from a public safety standpoint, emergency vehicle access and the
need to provide proper service, since there realIy is no north/souLh route
betureen Powers and the lake, that a thru connection should be made through
there. And we looked at a number of alternatives to do thaL. Ultimatelv
and correct me if I'm wrong Ladd, but the Planning Commission wound up
approving that wiLhout a recommendation on the streeL as I recaII because
it uas such a complex issue. It h,ent uP before the City Council and the
Planning Commission Meet i ngOctober 77, f99O - Page 5
Planning Commission t,leet i ng
October 77, L99O - Page 5
Planning Department r.rith the Engineering DePartment looked at a variety of -
alternatives to provid€ access into that area. There is no Particular
order. In this one you can see the dashed line was one of the originally
proposed plats of Vineland Forest...cuI-de-sac from Pleasant View- SLaff
had a problem with this one as did some of the ProPerty owners - But this
alternative had the thru street coming through down to Peaceful Lane. It
was hooked into basically I think Nhat was Art Owens' Plat. Art Owens had
approval to subdivide his ProPerLy and that plat has since lapsed- But he -
apparently did intend to develoP at some Point in time. Another
alternative here was a loop back basically from Pleasant View to Peaceful
Lane. t^le didn't think it accomPlished what the City needed to obtain
through here r^rhich was a thru movement. Alternative 4. Here was the thru
movement directed...by Vineland Forest but there was also a link through
here so we didn't have an inordinaLe number of dead end streeLs. They
b,eren't cuI-de-sacs to provide the residential atmosphere. Ultimately the
one that the City Council went Hith Has Alternative 3 and this is what the
Vineland Forest r^ras built to. There's a temPorary cul-de-sac which I'm
sure you're aII aware of thaL sits sort of right over here right now and
there's a sign on the end of it that says this street is intended to be
extended in Lhe future. t^,hat ue did is lay out a route that made grades
and made some sense from a design standpoint that really is. . .cul-de-sacs, -we !^rere most concerned t^rith the thru movement, that obtained a reasonable
connection to Pleasant View Road. One difference with the plan that Daryl
showed tonight i.s Lhe thru movement comes through here. Now it u,as never
inLended to go straight into Peaceful Lane and it was always assumed that
when and if this is done, that this uhole intersection needs to be rebuilt
and that question of the 127 fooL wide road would be resolved at that point
in time, There is no repla! on Art Owens' property right as I understand -and this is kind of hearsay, that the property is tied up with a tax issueor someLhins Iike that or an estate issue. But basically the City Council
adopted a concept that was supposed to guide Lhese decisions as properties -are developed in the future. Is that the only r.Jay to serve it? No.Clearly Lhere llere other alternatives but this was talked about for a good
3 months or so and this was the compromise that came out of it. As totraffic on Pleasant View which was one of the comments that Mr. Fortierraised, nobody denies the fact that improvements to Pleasant View urould bea long and arduous process and nobody envisions a 4lane street going
through Lhere necessarily at some point in Lhe future. I believe at onepoint in time the extension for the crosstown highway Has supposed to comethrough there. Around through there but there's no denying that PleasantView Road is a highly inadequate and often unsafe road. It,s underwidLh.The turn radaii are too tight. tte've got over 1,OOO cars a day using ittoday. t^le've just gotten the Eastern Carver County Transportation Studyand in a weighted rnodel that basically says that people will realize houlbad a street this is and try to avoid it, even in the weighted model it'santicipating that in the next 10 to 15 years, traffic on that street HiIIgrow up to about 2,5OO trips a day. Not.r at that point in time, whileyou're noL seeking to widened it to 4lanes, you certainly wiII be seeking -to widened it so that there's sufficient pavement width for people to pass
one another in opposite directions and that you can safely take curves.Nobody's looking forward to dealing with those issues. l.le realize it'sgoing to be tough but it's something that somebody sittins in this chair at-
some point in the future's going to have to deal with. That gives anovervieut of the process.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October 17, l99o - Page 7
Conrad: Other comments?
Mary Stasson: I have a comment. Alternative *4. This one. I live on the
corner of Pleasant Vieur Road and Peaceful Lane and Lhis proposal shares the
access by everybody. Pleasant View Road which I'm a part of, Peaceful Lane
trhich I'm also a part of and Nez Perce and Lake Lucy Road, Here I see this
is the perfect way to go because the burden is shared by everybody in this
proposa I .
Mary Stasson: But see the thing is, if they want to
Road, they're still going to go up Peaceful Lane and
turn and go down Pleasant View Road. You're talking
of space.
go down Pleasant View
then they're going tojust a minimal amount
Conrad: That was therr oPl nron -
stiII going
stretch can
Mary Stasson: They 're
Brad Johnson; ...that
mi Ie at the most?
Conrad: But the other end of Pleasant view as
the same. The residents had the same concern.
heard both those.
To get the access as close to cR 17.
to go down Pleasant View Road...
be what, a quarter mile if not a half
it dumps out on TH 1o1 had
Same exact concern and I
Resident: The traffic I don't believe would be going that direclion'
They're going to go out to CR 17'
Krauss: No, that's not true really. You've got to realize that
crosstoHn Highway is going to be extended to TH 1o1 in Lhe next tt,o years
and that's going to introduce a lot of movement to the east through there.
HoN they're going to get there we frankly don't knour. Pleasant Vieu Road's
the only road that goes Lhere.
Brad Johnson: I acknowledge that you did the vineland Forest. Those of us
on Lake Lucy, He are naive. l^,e sau, the oay they were doing things and we
thousht lhat street h,as going through there. It was at one time- t'le
didn't know anvthing about these Processes so ue uleren't here. t',e u'ere
quite upset when we found out it wasn't and ue realized it uras a little
Iate then. tle don't really. . .
Jim Stasson: AIso at that time the xay this is shown on Art's Property,
Lhat uas already done. t^le knew about Lhat and okay ue're going Lo have 15
more houses on there. [.Je can Iive with that but now when you connect it
aII up and you get rid of the other access to Pleasant View Road, we've got
5O-1OO houses coming by now. Or after that -
Mary stassont our driveuray, it comes out right here.
Conrad: I Lhink the concern at that time, and there were a lot of
concerns. A Iot of different opinions. t,lhat a lot of residents along
Pleasant View were concerned with was Lo get the access as close to CR 17
as possible,
Planning Commission Heeti ng
October 77, !99O - Page 8
Jim Slasson: You're lookj.ng at the wrong side. Ne're risht here.
driveuray comes out right there and the people that come around thisIike I said before. They'lI come around it at 3O-4O mph.
l'lary Stasson: This is 13O feet across here.
Our
cor ner ,
Jim Stasson: Right now there's 3 houses accessing that.
houses accessing that, my dog won't be safe more than 2
dr i veway .
r,Jirh 50
steps off or 50
the
Mary Stasson: t,e have a 30 foot driveway that eDpties out on that road.
Conrad: As Hr. Krauss said, if development goes Lhrough Lhat road haschange. Period. In terms of access to Pleasant View. It just has tothe City's committed Lo doing that. It can't stay the way it is.
to
and
Hary Stasson:That's what'strying to get
the situation
our dr iveway .
already beenthere and look at
Jim Stasson:
Krauss: No, I
Jim Stasson:
Krauss: Oh !
Jim Stasson:Is that 22 feet?
tle're not going to be able to get out ofgoing Lo happen to us and that's why ue'veahold of Jim Chaffee to have him come outfor us, Even the way it sits right now.
You mentioned that this, Nez Perce is 22 feeL on the corner?
never.
t",lhere it ties into Lake Lucy? Right down here.
Krauss: 15. In this plat?
Krauss: Yes. Nez Perce is an undersized street. Lake Lucy Road was buittto a better standard. Nez perce road and that whore neighborhood to thesoutheast of there, I think we're aLl painfully aware of the fact that itwas buiLt with inadequate roads. rt was buit wiLhout storm seurer and theutilitv svstems are old and beginnins to fai] and something's going to haveto give in there but Lhat is the onlv thru street in that neighborhood.
Brad Johnson: Have you done a study on how many cars are going on it now?
Jim Stasson: That street wasn't there until what, 3 years ago
Jim Duchener 2 L/2 years ago h,hen they put Lake Lucy thru. There'sanother sLreet doun, carver Beach Road which is down. r'm Jim Duchene on961 Lake Lucv Road and what r guess m opposed to is Lhe traffic thatwe're gettins back from the other side of Nez perce. ue're getting a greatdeal of traffic feeding out onto our road our front. rt is a bad corner.rf you haven't been dourn there, 22 feeL. They come around on probably a 9o-degree corner. rt's a problem. r don't know. r think the city oughl tolook at that. r think it shourd be closed off- r think they should takethat road ouL and stil.l leave a fire lane through there. rt wasn,t therebefore. t^,e're feeding noh, these other homes. ue have a neu developmentand I'm not sure how many lots are back there.
Planning Commission Mee! i ng
October 77, 199lU^ - Page 9
Jim Duchene: No. In the one?
21 but 2 of those accessed out
through the Vineland Forest PIat.
no capacity to get that right-of-wav
Pr ev I ous
was aboutKrauss: oh, in Vi nelandto Pleasant View.
Conrad: Okay, Lhanks.
Jim Stasson: Lake Lucy tends to become a dragstriP. You've got a 30 mph
speed limit. You're goL lower sPeed limits on roads thaL are wider around
here- They come off Nez Perce and they, esPecially the younger PeoPIe, and
Lhey are really flying.
Brad Johnson: Because it goes downhill. They have a good time on there.
Then they go up...S curve before it gets Lo CR 17 and thev're aII over theplace there. Then last spring when Vineland Forest was in, al] the heavy
trucks were coming through before the road restrictions Here off fuIIy
loaded. our street's going to be torn uP. You Put development. '.
conyad: Anything else? Is there a motion to close Lhe public hearing?
Emmings moved, Batzli seconded to close the public hearing. AII voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
conrad: Joan. Ouestions? Comments?
Ahrens: Isn't the option of having Nez Perce Road run down to Pleasant
View Road a dead issue anyway because of the PIan?
Krauss: It's certsainly a dead issue
That plat is over and done. l"le have
save buying 2 Iots I suPPose.
Ahrens: So the only access to Pleasant Vien
shown on this phoLograph that we have in our
say i n9?
Road is
PIANS?
thisthatin
IS
fashion that's
what you 're
Krauss: Yes.
Ahrens: Unless they Purchase these Lots l and 2 and run the."
Krauss: At this point in time running the street norLh through Vineland
Forest is not possible from the standPoint of the city being able to get
the right-of-wav through the platting Process. That's aII platLed
property. I suPPose theoretically you could run that connection over on
the Troendle property but I haven't Iooked at the grades over there. If
memory serves they're not that bad. But if you move aL all to the west of
Jim Duchene:. 2l , t^le're taLking another 15 plus ue're feeding everyone
else off Nez Perce now off of Lake Lucy Road. I have not seen any traffic
studies. I don't know if you have as far as cars on Lake Lucy Road but
being out Lhere I do know and Lhe homeowners that are here, we're all here
tonight. Every home that's on that street is represented here. He have
one missing? And i!'s a problem and that's uhy we're here in front of the
Planning Commission.
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October t7, 7990 - Page 10
Troendle's house, you start falling off into that low bret area which makes
it impossible to make the road connection.
Ahrens: t^lhat about this ]ow wet area on Lot 4 of Block 1? t^,hat do you
think about his proposal to turn that over to the City for parkland?
Ahrens: I have a Iot of questions about that wetland in therementioned to you earlier. There seems to be a question aboutnot it's even a uetland, from what you said. And I've noticedIast few years trucks bringing f il.I in there and it was a Iowit looked Iike a wetland to me before they started fiIIinS iLshine some light on that? What is going on with that wetland?
asI
uhether or
over thearea. I meanin. Can you
Krauss: A little bit, For more extensive report I,II really have to geLJo Ann Ol^sen to give it to you because she's been involved with thatproperty for some time. But Mr. Or^,ens, has been fillins thaL property.
The City's been going out there and having it stopped for at least the Lastyear and a half !o 2 years. That area was never pristine wetland. AsI understand it, it took on wetland characteristics when drainage out ofthe area was altered and there's been some indication that the City mayhave altered it somehow during a construction project, whatever. But since-the u,ater's impounded now, it's causing wetland vegetation to spring up.The r^retland proper or the more significant part of the wetland does nottruly fall on the Froendle property but Lo lhe extent that it does, it'sbeing preserved or improved if you wiII into a retention pond that wilrhave some urater in it. tre still have an issue with the fiII on owens,propertv. There was a hope that it would have been rectified. r believe
I'!r - ouens Hanted to have some rots there with his plat and staff alwayssaid tha! that's where your drainage goes and even if it wasn't a wetland,it's a retention pond so there Has aluays an issue there and it was onethat Has supposed to have been resolved as r understood it when he came in _for his final plat but in the event he never did.
Ahrens:How was
AE this
he going to resolve that?
Krauss:
my staff.
Ahrens:
star ted
t^lelI that'sfilling it it
uras one.
he
point I'm honestly not sure. I,d need to get updated by
Conrad: Joan, it was not an officially mapped uletland but it sure
and beforethought. I've dr ive nIooked 1i ke a wetland.
by it
and a
uras a
what I
sur e
Conrad: It always L,as urhat uras mapped paul? Things over an acrehalf I think. This might have been under so it wain,t mapped. It
Krauss: The Park Board's already reviewed this proposal and does not wantthe property. I don't knora that they Here asked specifically about thatlot bu! traditionalLy taking individual Iots that happen to be conveniently
Iocated for a developer is not, that does not fit Lhe biII for the ParkBoard. That's pocket parks. Are interesting design features in urban
areas but uhat they become in communities like ours is a very difficult
maintenance problem and they don't serve enough people to make themworthwhile. Conseguently Lhere's a policy that the City's funds andefforts should be devoted to more significant facilities.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October t7, 1990 - Page 11
wetland.
Ahrens: The City's asking for a 7 feet of right-of-way along P]easanL View
Road and lhe developer has said that they're not going to go along r.riththat at aII. I imagine that, I mean f don't know hour, if Pleasant View
Road is going to in the future be improved, I don't knour how we can approvea plat without an allowance for the additional right-of-way along Pleasant
View Road. Do you see how that can happen?
Krauss: tJe]I it's obviously our recommendation that we doright-of-way. As I said earlier, ue believe that there istraffic volume on that street now. [.,e expect that to grow
everybody's efforts to keep it Iow.
take the 7 f ooL
a significant
regardless of
Ahrens: Didn't we reguire that further up on Pleasant View?
Krauss: There was right-of-way that uasstreet that b,as for Hr. Beddor's son. fwas. Christmas Acres.
off a subdivision across therecall exactly how much it
taken
don 't
Ahrens: And also further east-
Batzli: Did ue Lake i! for Vineland?
Krauss: I don't believe, no. l.re did noL take iL f or Vineland-
Ahrens: Not for Vineland but f.cr the one that's on the other end. The
three lots tha! h,as, what was that? It starts where Pleasant Vieu,, curves
and goes down the hill. There's some Iots being developed right in there
where it's going to be divided into 3 lots.
Krauss: I think that's the Christmas Acres. That's across the street.
Ahrens: No, no. It's way down at the other end. Anyb,ay.
Gerhardt: The east end.
Jay Johnson: She's on the other side of the lake. AII the way on the
other side.
Ahrens: Risht. tlhere bre just divided those 3 lots.
Gerhardt: Fox Chase? That one?
Krauss: That's next door to this.
Jay Johnson: North Lotus Lake Park.
Batzli: Right. Yeah. The one across from the North Lotus Lake Park which
is what Jay just said. Right across the street there where they subdivided
those. The guy that had the Nater in his basement continuouslv.
Krauss: oh, oh, oh. 8y the street that -
Batz1i: t,ell those right there and then across the street again-
Planning Commission Heeting
October L7, f99O - Page 12
Kr auss :
!,rhere we
Batzl i :
Krauss:
BatzIi:
Yes. tJe did
had the city
ta ke
I ifr
extra right-of-way off of that, yes. The one
sLation down by the lake?
sight Iines on Peacefu Iintend to fix that road
Yeah. Those and directly west.
Baldur Avenue?
Yes .
Krauss: Sathre Addition .
Conrad: But that road alteration would eliminate the variance.
Conrad: The road alteration would eliminate the var r ance .
Ahrens: I have more commenLs but I agree that the
Lane are terrible and I realize that the City doesbut boy, it's bad not.r.
Batzli: tJhy didn't we takenext door to Lhe easL?
7 feeL or additional at Vineland there right
Krauss; Commissioner, Ne're really not certain. I think it fa]Is into thecategory of being an oversight. I mean things were so focused on which endyou're coming in on and it was running in a different direction from there.-I don't offer that as an excuse but just I think it was overlooked. I'da]so have to say too that the data that we're using now for the traffi.cforcast and it comes out of Lhe Eastern carver county Transportation studyand that's only been completed and delivered to the City in the last 3 -
wee ks .
Ahrens:was that approved?
Kr auss ;Carver County Transportation Study?
Ahrens:No,
IT
no - Vi neland -
Krauss:was approved in somethins like November of Iast year.
Batzli: on the plat it shows a portion of pleasant View Road to be vacatedon one of the maps here of the plans. Is that assuming I would supposethat they don't have to give up the additional 7 feeL? l.that is that for?Ihat's Lot 4, Block 1.
tJhen
The
Krauss: Oh, I seepresumption by the
what you're sayi ng.applicant that they
I don't know - That'suere going to maintain
probably a
ex ist i ng
Ahrens: I mean that's a nothing isn't it? Tha!'s what I thought. You
know it seems to me that Hr. Troendle's also making a Iot of money off this
development. I kind of feel like with aII the new proposals that the
developer has brought in tonight, I feel Iike it's real difficult to
discuss this. There's a road change that's being proposed and a slight
road alteration and he wants a variance. And Lhe 7 foot right-of-way...
Ahrens: The Hhat?
Planning Commission Heet i ng
october L7, 7990 - Page 13
right-of-way Dayyl? tle're looking to maintain 80 feet throughout. Nor^,
thaL's 40 foot on eiLher side o'F the center line and I believe r.le have a 56
footer there so it's traditi.onal that you take 7 fooL on either side- We
would seek to, assuming the con,lition is upheld, ure uould seek to rectify
that.
Batzli: How Iong is this Troen,Jle tlay cu I -de-sac?
t^lelI from Nez Perce it'sKraus6: It's approx imately
approximately 4OO feet.4OO feet.
BatzLi: l.,lhat's our normal guideline on that just out of curiousity?
Krauss: tJe've traditionally used 5OO feet. There's been a lot of them
approved between 5oO and 1,ooo. Until the connection's Put through to
Peaceful Lane or to Pleasant View, this is quite a lengthy cul-de-sac
because you've got to add in all the distance back to Lake Lucy Road. The
only reason ure're somewhat comfortable with that is that so much efforL's
been put into the concept of hora this is ultimately going to be connected
that t^re view this as a temPorar')' situation.
Batzli: Is there any problem from staff's PoinL of view in any of the
realignmenLs of the roads regar,C!ng Io! sizes after it's either uidened
and/or adjusted?
Krauss: The proPosal that Hr. Fortier to you tonight?
the cuI-de-sac road isn't
brought
I thinkBaLzIi: ThaL as weII as the ProPosal ,
wide enough as I understand it.
Krauss: Oh, no. Those lots are aII oversized. There's plenLy of give
r^rith that. The lot in Vineland Forest where they r,lould ProPose to swaP
Iand if Lhey suung that road a liltle further south, that's an 18 'ooosquare f ooL ]ot so there's Probably room f or that too. [^le'd nant to see
how this Iayout occurs that t'{r. Fortier's ProPosing. It Iooks reasonable,
l.le don't hran! to introduce too many curves into this street though because
it's already somewhat curvalinear and this is suPPosed to be a connecting
street. The more curves you introduce, the less utility it will have.
BaLzIi: I r,,ould be much more in favor if it's Possible to realign Lhe
street a little bit than provide a variance even if it's just for lifetime
estate on that Particular sLructure. If I had my druLhers.
Folch: Just a correcLion on that Troendle t^lav. The actual right-of-uav
uridth on the street portion at 50 feet is currently adequate. It's just
the cul-de-sac, the radius of the cul-de-sac that's being increased to 60
feet.
Batzli: okay. My other guestions had to do with whethev Lot 4 is a
wetland or not. I guess ure've already discussed that a little bit and
having been through staff's study of the various h,ays to have traffic flow
through these potential developments, I guess I didn't exPecL the problem
tonisht. It sounds Iike until the road goes through to Pleasant View and
untii they improve lhat particular corner, there may be some problems and I
don't know what we do about that in the meantime -
Planning Commission HeeL i n9
October L7, 7990 - Page 14
conrad: Problems where?
Batzli: Regarding traffic both loading up south and
coming out onto Pleasant View from, this small route
Batzli: But I mean the road, if it'sdevelops so it's an either or really.you don't issue a buildins permit for
eventually
Conrad: Is that a concern with Nez Perce traffic?
BatzIi: Yeah.
Conrad: okay. Steve?
Emmings: I support the recommendation that's been made by staff - Just a
comment on Lhe issues that we've got that have been brought up Lonight. AtIeast the ones on that proposal . There's no doubt in my mind that weshould require the additional right-of-way. tle have the right to do thatas a condition of the plat and it should be done. As far as treating Hr.
Beddor the same as everybody else. Everybody else isn't subdividing orwe'd be requiring it of them too f'm sure. And with regard to the, the only-other one that kind of caught my attention is the garage thaL's located onLot 2 on Block 1. I guess I'd make a proposal or there shouldn't be anyvariance granted. That's clear to me but I think maybe, it,s myunderstanding Mr. Troendle is what, 8O years old? I think that we could
make an accommodation here Lhat would be reasonable and I Hhat I,d proposeis that we simply say that either that the garage be removed or relocated _or the road wiII be adjusted to create the necessary setback. And that the-ti.ming of that, that will be done prior to the issuance of a buildingpermit for LoL 2, Block 1or u,hen tlr. Troendle is no longer a fuII Limeresident of that property, whichever occurs first. I think I could live..rith that, to not change his property until he's no longer living there.Otherwise I don't have anything else.
as far as
here.
Emmings: Right. That's essentially right. I guesseither you move the building or you move the road.building, you do it before there's a building permitIiving there fuII time. I don't know how we'd everseparate i ssue .
adjusted uriII happen before anythingEither the road is adjusted or thenLot 2. Is that what you said?
I just said thatIf you have to move theor when he's no longer-
knou but that's a
Conrad: That's staff's problem. Anything else?
Emmings: No. I guess as far as the location of the road, that,s done.
alter natives .Resident: There's always
Emmings: As far as the road goes, that,s done as far as whaL ue're doingtonight. It's a non-issue and what I was going to say was I think you havesome valid concerns but I think they ought to be addressed to the CityCounci I
Jim stasson: You mean the existing roads or are you talking about theproposed roads?
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 77, t99O - Page 15
Emmings: The road,
Lane , that has been
on that, address iL
as Nez Perce is designed to go
determined by the City Councilto the City Council.
through to Peaceful
and if you've got issues
Brad Johnson:
done deal?
Are you saying that that part over ArL O$,ens' property is a
Emmi ngs :
BatzI i :
This path, as I under:stand it, this path for Nez Perce.
It's not plaLted.
Krauss: There's a conceptual alingment. It only becomes effective whentheir property is platted.
Jim Slasson: So it's not done,
Emmings: Okay, iL's not done. Then don't address your concerns to the
City Council. f mean I'm telling you that if you have concerns, this isn't
the forum for them. This is not an issue in this plat. This fits r.rith the
conceptua] plan of the road.
Batzli: t^,hat I think, b,e geL o,-rr guidance from the City Council and thev
have looked at this and revieweC it and basically given the guidance to us
thal conceptually this is what Lhey uranL to see and for us to teII the Citv
Council now that no, we don't like that. Do something else. tle probablv
Hon't take that step because they told us t^rhat thev think thev u,ant to see.
Mary Stasson: But when do we get a chance to sPeak?
Batzli: You'II set a chance to go to the City Council when this goes up to
the City Council and that's really, I think you have to get your grouP back
together and address your concerns to them because they're the ones that
told us this is what they want to see.
Brad Johnsonr So what is lhe prrrpose for tonight then?
all here for an hour and a half?
don't have anything to say about it.
Rodd Johnson: tlhy are !^re
Jim Stasson: If you guys
Emmings: I'm talking about Nez Perce the way it's Lined up to go. Ifyou're interested in. . .
Jim Stasson: You mean outside of the development? tJhere are you talkins
about?
Brad Johnson: tJe don't think the pLat should be approved unless that issue
is taken care of-
Rodd Johnson: This plat is stiII open- He can still access the Pleasant
View Road right through.
Hary Stasson: Lots 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October L7, 7990 - Page 15
Batzli: trelL we have a.Lot to say about a lot of issues but on thisparticular issue, I don't think r.re're going Lo change whaL the city council
has tol.d us they brant to see.
Conrad: I'm interested. I think bre have our input so I guess I'll reflect
a different opinion. I feel comfortable with the alignment that uras
proposed and only because we struggled with it for so long. I think it's
unfortunate, and there weren't any good soLuLions. I Lhink most people
that ]ive in the area don't want that area developed at all, as I would
guess you wouldn't but on the other hand it is. FIat out it is and I think
ue struggled with that. I think the aLternatives that I heard mentioned
tonight were not acceptable to me before and they still aren't. That
doesn't mean we explored other alternatives. I guess I'm interested from a
Planning Commission standpoint. Not that the City Council decree Lhat Lhis-is the road alignment. They did to a degree do that. I'm curious if
anybody feels that you'd like to reopen that issue and suggest to the CiLy
Council tha! they reopen the issue.
Emmings: I can tell you for me I Lhink that this is the plan they adoptedis a good one because it doesn't put another entrance out onto a road that,
ouc onto Pleasant View. So I preferred this one.
Conrad: Just
involved whenthinking they
a comment. Paul , this neighborhood obviously was notthe other neighborhoods along Pleasant View uere and they,regot the short stratr in this one.
Brad Johnsonr How about knou?
Conrad: Don't be so negative. We're trying.
Brad Johnson: I'm sorry. It's our street.
Conrad: I knowthe reason they
it is. I empathize.
ureren't i nvolved?
I know L,hat you're feeling. t^,lhat was-
conrad: And that was my opinion when we looked at that. I think two roads
and especially the straight that would have connected the Carver Beach area-and the strip straight across to Pleasant VieuJ I thought was a negativealternative. This is a beLter alternative as I see it. This is just mespeaking- Brian. Joan. Do you have a feeling to want to open up or to
recommend that the City Council looks at road alignment or are you
comfortable or do you not know enough at this point in time to even, you
may not have been around. I don't knou. Brian, you h,ere around. Joan, Idon't think you wer e
Batz]i: Of the options that rre have remaining since Vineland went in andthe road is where it's at, I think that this is the best alternative thaeI've seen. I mean sure there's probabLy other alternatives and I thoughttle addressed a fair number of them and this was a reasonable alternative atthat time.
Ahrens: r agree. r think that r.re shourd be directing as much traffic ". ,"-can as quickly as possible onto CR 12.
Planning Commission l,leet i ng
October 17, 1990 - Page 17
Krauss: I honestly d6n't reca}I
comments from people on Peaceful
calIs from someone.
Ahrens: Hor.r could you adjust the
Iooks like the only corner that's
xho was notified. I know that we had
Lane because.., I certainly got phone
lot Iine of 3 and 4...buildable- It
bui ldable .
some
conrad: I thought ue did too.
Brad Johnson: I called after I found out Hhat was going on but that wasafter it was already going to city council. Before He even had a shot at
coming in here and saying. This was done in November.
Krauss: The final plat Has approved in November.
Conrad: okay, it might have been- Mr. Emmings gave you some input andprobably nothing that you're realIy thrilled with. I guess I'm telling you
from my position I'm pretty comfortable given alI the negatives andpositives and some of the things, requirements He were trying to do and
really it's hard to reflect back monLhs ago. But I'rn not uncomfortable
with this road alignment. I think you realIy should be at the CiLy Council
meeling to express your concern. They did say that this is trhat they'd
Iike. I don't say that we'II j,.rst dump it off on them. I'm telling you
that I feel comfortable r.rith this road alignment as I looked at the
alLernatives many monLhs ago buL I think you've got to stay, as I Prefacedbefore, if you all go in with the numbers you had tonight, Lhey nay pay
some attenLion to you Lo reopen the issue. Okay? Some other questions.
Block 1, Lot 4. That's a buildable lot?
Krauss: Frankly Mr. Chairman I don't believe it is. It's very tight which
is r.rhy ure've recommended a shift of lot lines to increase the buildine Pad.
And some of that pond is being excavated out and it's also possible to
shift that excavation somewhat further to the south,
Conrad: So . okay . I missed that .
Krauss: No, not belween 3 and 4. Between 1 and
width and that IoL 1 is 14o. Basically you skew
it runs to the northeast.
4-
the
t,le requ ire 90property Iine
foot of
so that
conrad: HeIp me PauI . l.lhere's the recommendation that ure do what
said? I'm scanning real fast and maybe I just can't pick it up.
Ahrens: You ta] k about
you just
it in
should
the report -
be in there -Krauss: I 'm sorry , itthe text -
conrad: Yeah, it's not
unless Lhere 's a motionproved that a building
problem with the 7 faoL
it's got to be. It's an
it. NoL that I'm really
lruth but I think now's
I knou we talked abou! iL in
there so I don't know that I can apProve that
to claim it an unbuildable lot risht nob, unLil it's
pad could meet setback. I too, I don't have any
requirement in the staff reporL. That's the way
absolute. tle'11 take it. Notr's the time to do
uild about expanding Pleasant View to telI vou the
the time to do it and that's not even a debate in
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 17, f99O - Page 18
my mind. I agree with Steve in terms of his motion. I think that roadshould be realigned to try to meeL Lhe setbacks. I don't knou, I couldnever say what you said but I hope you can reconstruct u,hat you said Steve.
And from the neighborhood standpoint, r,le'Il look into finding and Paul, can-you get back to me next,2 weeks from now. Is that a public hearing forthe Comprehensive Plan? tlhat's 2 weeks from nou, anything?
Conrad: okay. I'd Iike to know why this group lras not involved. Eveyy 2
weeks we come here and ure talk to our neighbors like yourselves and there's-
always somebody saying he r.rasn't informed. As PauI says, the first thing
he learned in planning school is the neighborhoods come in and say whyuasn't I informed of this so it's preLty standard but it appears to me that-they're are a lot of you here that were not informed so I'd kind of like tolook and find thaL out. It may noL help you, you know right now and you're
sort of at the end of a process which is unfortunate. I think if thePlesant View owners that were here in the other time periods, Lhey'reprobabLy double your numbers that were here talking about they don'L r^jantthis at aII. Maybe very similar to u,hat ),ou're saying and then okay, ifwe've got to have it, how do we minimize the traffic coming from CarverBeach? How do we minimize the traffic going douln Pleasant Vier,l? How are
ule safe? HoH are we this? How are we that? Here's what we came up with.I know you don't like it but that's uhat we Lried to, we tried to satisfy
some of those needs and now you have another one. I think the only otherthing I can say is thaL the road access out to Peaceful Lane u,iII be
improved to be acceptable when that link is made. It wouLd be acceptableto according to standards. There couldn't be any other way, That may not -feel comfortable either but it urould have to be.
Resident: ...would that be south where it used to run down CR 17?
Krauss:Yes .
That uas looked at?
There's actually a stub right-of-way that comes up from Lake Lucytuo homes.
They did look at that?
Yeah. As I recall the grade u,as too significant coming through
Resident:
Resident:
Brad Johnson: That's our big problem...Art Owens property. The accessto Pleasant View. And to approve this thing now when that is, people cansay Hhat they ulant but nobody here k nours nhen that's going to happen
Conrad: That's true. Yeah. tle have situations Iike Lhat all the time.Is that good or bad? It's probably bad but there's no perfect way to solvethat problem. You can't hold up somebody's right to develop unless you can_prove that it's unsafe -
Krauss:
i nbetueen
Kr auss :
there,
Rodd Johnson: t,hen you talk about being unsafe...Nezcorner that bre're lalking about that Has 22 feet and I Perce and Lake Lucy
believe. . .
Krauss; It should be a regular meeting.
Planning Commission Heeti ng
October 17, 7990 - Page 19
Krauss:
Char I es ,
No. A
norma I
normal right-of-way which is the land Ne own is 50 feet,
to curb noH?pavement width what curb
Folch: It
streeL.
is 28 feet face of
1S
cur b to face of curb on a minor residential
Rodd Johnson: Is La ke Lucy
it
a m.i nor residential street?
Jim Stasson: Lake Lucy t^lould be okay but it's Lhat Nez Perce corner . . .
( There rdas a tape change at this point in the meeting. )
Conrad: I think the comments from t,lr. Fortier, f understand
don't agree with them. I do ag"ee with Steve, your comments
want Lot 4, Block l to be a bui.ldable Iot at this time until
be bu.ildable. So how do we han<Jle that one Paul?
them but I
and I don't
it's proven to
Krauss: tlell I'd add a condition, fL u,as an omission on our Part because
under the gr adi ngldra i nage section ue do discuss the fact that that lot is
marginally buildable and there's no rear yard for the homes should thev
build one there. Put in a condition to the effect that the lot lines and
grading shalI either be reconfigured to enlarge the buildable area on that
Iot or it shoutd be combined with Lot 1to make a single larger lot'
conrad: Okay. Any other comments? fs there a motion?
Emmings: I'll move that the Planning Commission recommend aPProval of
Subdivision *9O-15 of the Troen(lle Addition as shown on the Plans dated
'Received September 17, !99o" subiect to the condiLions in the staff
report. 1 thru 13 as presented in the staff report and then an alLeraLion
to 11 as follows. That one wiII read that the garage barn on Lot 2' Block
1 wiII be removed or relocated or the road shall be adjusLed so that no
variances are required. If it is necessary to remove or relocate the
garage or barn, that shall be d,rne Prior to Lhe issuance of a building
permiL for Lot 2, BLock 1or when Mr. Troendle is no longer a full time
resident of that properLy, uhichever should occur first. The balance of
that 11th condition wilI stay the way it is. Then add a condition 14 that
would staLe the following. That Lot 4, Block 1 aPPears to be an
unbuildable lot. That the applicant must either adjust the lot lines or
oLherwise combine the loL with the oLher 3 lots in Block 1 or in some other
ruay insure it's buildability to the satisfaction of the citv staff.
Conrad: Okay, thanks Steve.
discussion.
I:s there a second? I'II second it. Any
Batzli: Yeah- I'd like to make two minor amendments to the plan and the
third point of the 8th condition I'd like to add the follouing sentence.
This is after the additional 7 feeL of right-of*wav. No vacation of
Pleasant vieH Road shall occur nott^rithstand i ng Lhe Plans submitted bv
applicant. And then the lOth condition I'd cross off' wiII be accePted and
insert the uords, shalI be required from the apPlicant.
conrad: tlould you modify your motion?
Emmings: Sure.
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 17, f99O - Page 20
conrad: Any other discussion?
Batzli: Yeah. I think that that's the
second and I was really impressed.
first motion I've ever heard you
Emmings: I'll second tha!.
Emmings moved, Conrad seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Subdivision *90-15 for Troendle Addition as shown on the plans
dated September 17, 199O, subject to the following conditions:
The applicant shalI obtain and comply with aII conditions of theNatershed Dislrict permi.t.
Ihe developer shaII dedicaLe thepermanent ownership,
utilities within the risht-of-way for
The cul-de-sac on Troendle l.lay shall have a radius of 60 feet and thestreet name shall be modified to either Troendle Circle or TroendleCourt to eliminate any confusion in applying it as a through street.Final street plans shall be developed for approval by the CityEngineering Department.
3
4
1
2
6,The applicant shall install erosion control silt fenceponding area until such time that turf is esLablished.shall be placed behind alI curbing.
around theTurf or sod
Shared driveway access off of Pleasant View Road for Lots l and 4,Block 1is required and a cross access easement shall be provided.This common section of the driveway shall be consLructed to a 7 tondesign paved to a width of 20 feet and have a maximum grade of 1O%.
8. Provide the following easements and righLs-of-uay:
a The drainage and utility easements along the westerly property Iinof Lots 9, 10 and 11, Block 2 and the ponding area on Lots 3 and 4Block l that are shown on the grading and erosion control planshaII also be shoun on the preliminary plat accordinsly.
The acquisition of a drainage easement through the propertyimmediately west of Lots 3 and 4, Block l will be required for thedischarge of the detention pond.
Additional 7 feeL of right-of-way along pleasant View Road. Novacation of Pleasant Vieur Road shall occur notwi t.hsta ndi. ng theplans submitted by appl icant .
b
c
A tree removal plan shall be submitted for Lots 1,2 and 3, Block 1prior to issuance of a building permit. Clear cutting, except for the
house pad and utilities wiII not be permitted
The appLicant shal] enter into a development contract with the city andprovide the city with the necessary financial securities to guarantee _proper installation of the improvements.
5.
7
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October !7, ].99O - Pase 21
9 The applicant shall submit storm seu,er calculations verifying size andcapacity of the storm seu,er system and ponding basin. Eight inchsanitary sewer at a minimum rate of O.4? sha]l. be constructed on thissubdivision and service locations for aII of the Iots on this plat
shall be shown for final submittal review. The final plans andspecifications shall be submitted Lo the City Engineer for review and
approval .
Park and trail fees wiLLparkland dedication.
be required from the applicant in lieu of
The garage barn on Lot 2, B.Iock l will be removed or relocated or the
road shalI be adjusted so thaL no variances are requ.ired. If it is
necessary to remove or reLocate the garage or barn, that sha]l be doneprior to the issuance of a buildins permit for Lot 2, Block 1or whenHr. Troendle is no ]onger a fuII time resident of that property,
uhichever should occur f irs"-. Lot 2, Block l shall be serviced by
Nez Perce Drive and the gra,rel driver^ray to Pleasant View Road sha]I be
r emoved .
10.
11.
12.The temporary cul-de-sac should be provided h,ith an easement to
accommodate the temporary pavement and be provided with a barricade
equipped with a sign indicating the road uill be extended in the
future -
13, LoLs l and 11, B]ock 2 are required to have access from Troendle tlay..
t4.Lot 4, Block 1 appears to be an unbuildable lot. The applicant must
either adjust the lot lines or otherwise combine the ]ot with the other
three lots in Block 1or in some other uay insure it's buildability to
the satisf action of the Cit:,, staff .
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanirnously.
conrad: This goes to the city Council on the 5th. Are you telling them
that? okay. I think you've got to go into them with some sPecifics. It'spretty characteristic. tlhat you said tonight is Pretty standard for what
we hear from neighbors on a Iot of things. If you want a Particular road
a.Iingment, if you don't like that one you know, you should have a
recommendaEion that says City C,runcil h,e urould Iike you to do this. tle
would like you to study the traffic patterns from Nez Perce. It's
dangerous now and we can prove it. You've got Lo go in ulith some solid
stuff because we hear this all the time. They really uJere the ones tha!
did set lhis alignment in terrns of the general direction and I think
they're the ones that can take another look into it. So thank you and
don't stop your interest.
l'lary Stasson: t^1i11 they again look at the safetv?
conrad: I'm not sure. It ulas .a major issue of aII other homeowners who
came in at previous times and safety is an issue with the Planning staff.
tle just don't like to do things that don'! make sense. This is not a high
intensive use of that }and. It's a Pretty Io!| intensive use. You know if
we Here talking about 12,ooo square foot things and high rises and trhat
have you, we're not talking a whole lot of intensity here' Even though
Planning Commission l,teet i ng
October 77, 7990 - Page 22
it's far more than what's acceptable to you because you're dealing with, it-
is. It's not out of characLer with t^rhat Chanhassen is becoming. And so
it's, the safety issue was a concern before as we made thaL link between
the Carver Beach area and Pleasant Vieer because it ulas simply a straighL
shot across and that was the concer. It was going to be a dumping ground
for, you knour it's just going to be the quick route Lo the Crosstoun. PauI
is telling us tonight, it's still going to be a quick route to the
crosstown no matter what so you know, r.re dealt uith that information
before. tjel], I just wanted to talk to you a little bit.
Brad Johnson: Lake Lucy now is a dumping ground and a quick shot for
everyone down on Nez Perce so, talking about safety, that corner is bad.
think that's r.lhat our homeowners are concerned about.
conrad: I appreciate you coming tn.
that goes to City Council?
a City Council member here tonight so.
Brad Johnson: Is there a record
conrad: They this - [.Je have9et
9et aIso.
watch the video broadcast of this
Emm i ngs: They verbatim M i nuLes
Batzli: Tune in
thi ns .
every Salurday and
PUBLIC HEARING:
T,IODIFICATION OF THE PLAN FOR TAX I NT FINANCING DISTRICT
I
THE-
PURPOSE OF THE HODIFICATION IS TO AUTHORIZE ADDITI AL IHPROVEHENT TO
AUDUBON ROAD -
Todd Gerhardt presented the staff report on this item. Chairman ConradcalIed the public hearing to order.
Batzli moved, Emmings seconded to close the public hearing. All voted infavor and the motion carried. The public hearing nas closed.
Conrad: Steve?
Emmings: I don't have any comments.
Conradr Brian?
Batzl.i: I don't have any questions. I think it's a wonderful. resoluLion,Perfectly consisLent trith the development of the city of Chanhassen.
Conrad: You go along with anything the government wants risht?
BatzIi: Risht.
Conrad: Anything else? Is there a motion?
Resol ution s9o-2:Batzli moved, Emmings seconded that the Planningcommission adopt the attached resolution finding the Hodified plan for TaxIncrement Financing District No- 2-1 consistent rrith tha City's
Comprehensive PIan
voted in favor and
All
APPROV AL OF },IINUTES:
Conrad: tle have approval of Hinutes but we can't approve them-
Emmings: tlhy?
Batzli: tle did it before.
Emmings: Three of us u,ere here right? Oh no.
Batzli: Only tr.ro. See lre did that before where *e had less than a quorum
and we approved it and our city sLaff was golng to come back and tell us if
we couldn't do that.
Emmings: ...A majority of the people who are here now who were there then,
Conrad: I don't think Ehat's right.
Emminss: I made it up. I'm willing to accept that it's wrong.
Batzli: l.,e could always move to approve them and then this time we could
actual ly f i nd out Iater if r.re can do that .
Ahrens: tlhy don't we be daring and do that?
Emmings: tJhy do *" ""r",
Batzli: The City Council actualLy adopts them once we approve them don't
they?
Krauss: No, they accept them.
Batzli: They accept them, oh.
Emmi ngs: l.lhat do we need to do here? l.lhat can He do?
conrad: I think there arE cases if you don't approve the Hinutes, wellyou're a lawyer.
Emmings: So what?
Conrad: That's brhat I've always said. Hakes no difference to me.
Surrounded by lesal people and you'rs all saying break the rules. I don't
understand that.
Batz1i: t^lell you two are going to vote. we're going to abstain so we
don't care what you guys do.
conrad: Yeah, if you would like to, Iet's just do it and see Nhat,
I really do think Paul you've got to get back to us on how ue, what are the
rules regarding approval of Minutes. But anyway, is there a motion?
and
the
the development of the City of Chanhassen-
motion carried unanimously.
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 77, l99O - Page 23
Planning Commission I'leet i ng
October 17, f99O - Page 24
Enrnings moved, Ahrens seconded to approve the ilinutes of the Planning
Commission meeting dated October 3, 1990 as presented - Emnings and Ahrens
voted in favor and Conrad and Batzli abstained- The motion carried-
OPEN DISCUSSION:
Conrad: PauI , what else do you hrant to take us through tonight?
Krauss: t"lell on the Open Discussion stuff, number 3, Review CityNoLification PoIicy for Ordinance and DeveLopment Review, that was p
here. Tim Erhart called me up and uanted to discuss that and sincenot available.
ut on
he 's
Conrad: Let's bring it back next meeting.
Krauss: I think it was relative to the industrial and the testing station.
By the way I should tell you that the Lesling station has apparenLly
secured an alternate site. It's on that outlot that's nexL to ].lcDonal. ds onthe eastern side of there which is in the BH District.
Batzli: L,asn't there a Class B wetland risht in there?
Krauss: No it's noE. This is quite a large lot and it's on the other side-of it.
Emmi ngs:
Conrad: I
Ahrens: I
That's better? tlell , maybe.
don'L think that is better but.
xould think access urould be harder.
Krauss: t^ielI it's got two signalized intersections. DelI Road is beingbuilt as one righ! now and Dakota - You're looking at a property that theowner believes can be split up into four commercial sites right nor.r and
unde:- the BH District, each one of those could be a fast food restaurant.
Ahrens: Hour exciti ng .
Krauss: Yeah. So an alternative that generates half the traffic of a fastfood restaurant may be appropriate. I don'C know. I guess I,ve always had-a concern that this is going in a BH district anylray but that's the sitethey're looking at. They're planning on bringing that back to you Lhe
second meeting in November I believe.
Batzli: tlhat happened last u,eek? I didn't read the Hinutes?
Emmings: It Has a 3-2.
Batzli: To go in there?
Emmings: To allow in the IOP and Tim felt very strongly about it and IEhink Jim. Ihey both felt very strongly it was inappropriate there so
was pretLy hotly contested. I have a feeling that this is a goodalternaLive. First of aII, I think it's appropriate in the BH. Second
ir
of
Kr auss :
next to
month.
l.Jel l you 'I I 9etthe IoP district
to take a Iook at it. It willyou'Il see it in a few ueeks.
a c ha nr:e
Iine but
be r ight
Or next
REVIEI.I OF BERH IN LAKE SUSAN HII-LS I,IEST ALONG AUDUBON ROAD.
Krauss: tle did look into the berm issue on Lake Susan HiIIs tlest.
Commissioner Batzli I believe Has inquiring as to why that wasn't done on arecollection that there uas supposed Eo be something there. t,hat Nas
supposed to be there is quite minimal. The tre6s aren't there yet,
They'lI be installed after Lhe roaduay improvements are done but there is
no significant buffering or berming that Has proposed on that site for
whaLever reason.
Emmings: r r.ras the one. I distinctly remember. I knob, and
remember that t{e talked about a berm there and how it didn'tplan I don't knon but I know th,at we discussed that.
I stillget into the
Krauss: IL'd sure be handy if we had one
it. You're aware of the Comp Plan public
at the Chan Elementary SchooI.
or had some mechanism
hearing is being held
to force
next wee k
Batzli: t,hat time?
Krauss: 7'.Oo. We didn't send out separate notices because I thought
I mentioned this aL Lhe last cor.rple of meetings.
conrad: oh no.
Emmings: 7:oO on, this is the 18th.
Krauss: October 24th. It's from 7:OO. They usually shut the school down
at 1O:OO. I asked Lhem if ure could lock it up at lt:OO. They agreed Lo
that. You don't have to tell the public that if you don't l.rant to. l.,e
notified everybody on our mailing list r.rhich is, I don't know the exact
count now but over time peoPle who have exPressed an interest have been Put
on a mailins list. It's Probably uPwards of 15O PeoPle have received mail
notice from us. I've got articles running in both newsPaPers this week so
anybody that reads the local PaPers. Commission Ahrens tells me it's in
the Sailor on the front page. I haven't seen that yet. ].le do have coPies.
You've got the entire draft in front of you now. That's the entire text
plus a ner., map. In the paper and in my memo I told PeoPle that the plan
lext is available to th€m tomorrow morning. I've only got 10 coPies of
that because I don't think really many PeoPle, aPart from Eric Rivkin who's
already requested one, ere really going Lo take it home and read it. But
maps are being given out today and as we speak. t,e're iust handing them
out to anybody that's expressing an inter€st. You may u,ant to give a
Iittle bit of discussion. I know Commissioner Batzli and I talked about
Lhis a few weeks ago. To hour you uant us to manage that meeting. I think
possibly, wel] both neighborhood meetings we had I thought were good
illustrative examples of how to manage a meeting. There was an overview
given, Time Iimits were set. The guestions uere eddressed to the Planning
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 77, 7990 - Page 25
all, it just will eliminate all the bad feelings it generated about itgoing into the IOP so I think it would probably be a good idea.
Planning Commission l.,teet i ng
October L7, \99O - Page 26
Conrad:
that -
I'm not doing that anymore Paul . That hurts. No, ue'II try to do
Emmings: Did you see the Blues Brothers you knou rhen they sang at thatCountry l.,estern bar and they had the screen up between them and they werethrowing bottles. Will ure get one of those screens? I think r,Je might neechit. Or could ure have a garbage can cover so u,e can deflect anything.
Jay Johnson: You
screen.
did Eckankar uithout a screen, you can do this without a
Emmings: That r.Jas a piece of cake.
conrad: tle'Il just put bags over our heads.
Batzli: I feel sLrongly, let me just follow up onstrongly that we have to speak about our own planto the sLaff and consultants- Because if r^re don'tif we can't express some sentiments as to why it'sthink it's a very good plan.
what Paul said. I feel -and not just leave it up
understand the pLan anda good PIan, I don't
Conrad: t,hat's your format for presentation paul?
Krauss! tJeII I thought r.re would do it the way bre did it at theneighborhood meetings where I gave a short intro. Mark stood upexplained what the plan was pointing it out and then ue thretr itthink by and large most of the faces that you see there wiII beones.
and
open. Ifamiliar
Kreuss: lAle I I I don 't know that that 's true though.
conrad: tlerl, we've incorporated some but ue obviously haven,t taken care -
of Eric. r bet vou ue've incbrporated a third. so there's two-thirds thatwe haven't. So r think we have to aggressively deal with the comments thatwe heard and hou we resolve them. some of those that we resolved were late-at night. tle said we just plain don,t uant to deal with that. I guess I,mcurious as to how the commissioners r.,ant, they're going to be reaLirritated, they're going to feel like r,ce didn't pay attention if we don,t.at least describe the concerns that we heard and provide the rationale forwhy ue didn't incorporate those, Am r u,rong or do you feel we should justpresent what we've got and deal with their comments as they come up anddeal with uhv as thev come up? oeal with why ue didn'L incorporate them.
Ahrens: I think the way we should do it. The big issue we discussed atIength like Eric Rivki.n's proposar. rt's real obvious at Lhat neighborhood-
Commission. In fact I felt very good about the fact that at the secondmeeting particularly that Chairman Ladd, you and the Planning Commissionwere responding to the questions and it wasn't staff that Has asked torespond to t.hem.
conrad: okay. During those, the reason we had the neishborhood meetings
hJas to air, Lo hear their comments, Now we're golng to throw out somethingand basicarry ure have not incorporated most of their comments into thisPlan.
meeting that a lot of people wh.c were named on his petition uho weren't
necessarily in agreement with him and a lot of people stood up and said
they didn'l Iike, r^rho weren't on the petition, said I wouldn't go alongwith that anyway and, I don't know. tle're going to leave that to yor-l Ladd.
Conrad: I do have something else to do that night. But I guess if nothing
else I need a cheat sheet or a r€cap PauI of the major issues that were
brought up as well as t,hat you believe our rationale was. I know you're
taking 7 commenLs but I think maybe it's even your creativity thatjustifies why we didn't incorporate it. And the only other thing that I'm
interested in, we did change the plan based on the community's involvement
and I kind of what to provide a sense that h,e listened and when it was
important, when it was relevant and the right thing to do, we changed it so
therefore most people wiII only focus in on the one issue that they care
about and if they lost, they lost and as far as they're concerned, r^le
Heren't sensilive to anything b.rt how do we Provide them with the feeling
that we did pay attenLion? t,e did try to do the best modificaLions that
made sense,
Krauss: Possibly we can give them an overvieul of those. NoN in the letLer
I sent out to everybody and in Lhe articles I hoPe that are printed, I did
ask both neurspapers to explore what the main Points of contention were over
the summer and that we've heard and what Lhe resPonse u,as. I guess there
were basically 5 points that they touched on. In the letter I described
the fact, you know Timberwood uas alulays an issue. Timberwood is now
surrounded by residential develoPment. That Sunridge Court raised a
concern wiLh industrial being uo against their ProPerty line. As a
consequence the Rod Grams ProPerty was changed to residential . That there
was a Iot of investigation as tc which, should you go with the original
plan or the alternative plan north of TH 5? Did the Commission determine
that the original plan was historically correct and followed the Lake Ann
Interceptor and made sense to do? There ulas concerned raised about a
commercial center, neighborhood shopping center at the intersection of
Galpin and TH 5. As a result of that concern, that was eliminated. Then
as a result of the general issue of how industry interfaces uith
residential , we developed a buffer yard concePt and that's now on the PIan.
Ahrens: ...time with the Rivkin PIaL because I don't remember anv specific
arguments why we didn't go along with his ProPosal excePt for it iust
seemed Iike the right area to develoP. I mean thev're going to sav whv did
you change your decision on some areas and not ours. That's goiDg to be a
tough one I think.
conrad: I wasn't here for that gathering and I tell you, uhoever
to have to. I can iustify r.lhat the decision rdas but I don'! know,
here to listen to all the different comments.
LS
I
going
wasn I t
Emmings: Can I ask someLhing PauI? Nour it sounds like people, aII of vou
uho have been taLking about this so far feel that the public hearing is a
place where they have to iustify to the public what ue've done in putting
together the comPrehensive PIan and I'm not sure that that's true. A
public hearing is a place for the public to have inPut into the Process.
If they stand up and say I don't like this Part of the Plan for these
reasons, that's satisfying what the public hearing is for because Lhen we
get to consider what they say and so does the City Council . I'm not sure
Planning Commission t4eet i ng
October L7, 7990 - Page 27
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October 17, 799o^ - Page 28
we have to justify every
Don't have to.Conrad:
decision that's been made along the way.
You're absolutely risht.
Emmings: But you want Lo?
conradr Yeah, I like that just from a personal , this is how government
urorks. On the other hand Steve, you have to come t.o grips uith the factthat it is a public hearing. Those other two meetings don't count. In apublic hearing Iike r,re had Lonight, if they say something Lhat Lriggers
something that we didn't consider, I'm sure the developers are going to
come in along TH 5 and sue us. I'm sure that the lawyers wiII be here soyou're going to have to say, weII am I comfortable with this? You don't
have to pass it on Lo City Council. tle don't have to do anything. It is a-pubJ.ic hearing for their input for us to consider and b,e're not ramming iL
down anybody's throa! so ue have the option of saying we sLiII believe thatwe're right and this is what we b,ant City Council to see or we can dealwith issues that h,ere brought up again and send it back to staff. So those-are, you've got to come in here basically, even though ure struggled for 2years on this thing, you've got to come in with an open mind and say hey, Idon't Bant to deal with it or I should deal with those things and figure -out what you brant to do wilh it.
Batz 1i : !^lhat
know touch i ngThis is what
defending the
ue feel we 'vethi ngs .
I would suggest is in the overview at the fron! explain,on these major issues. These were the concerns we heard.we've done to the plan and not as they get up one by oneplan but rather as an overview at the sLart talking aboutat lease listened to their concerns and try to do some
you
hor.r
Emmings: I'm very comfortable with that.
Ahrens: And these are the changes we've made to date so that people whoare eccumating who have new concerns, they don't feel that they're notgoing to be heard because we have a done deal here and ue,re justpresenting it to you and we're going to justify it all.
Emmings: See I u,ant to stay away from defending it to each person that
comes up to the podium. If we can tell them why re did what we did, tha!,sfine buL not in an aLtitude of oh yeah, well, because it could turn intothat very easily.
Ahrens: And it is a public hearing though. I mean there may be new things-that come up that we may say hey they have a real good idea there. t^,e mayNant to change something eIse.
Emmings r Then as anoLher point, some of the explanations for uhy we didwhat we did, I mean if you uent down the row of 7 people, there nay be 7different reasons. There uere certainly be several . you knour Rivkin asexample. His point of cutting out these islands to me just conceptually
an
Emmings: Ladd, to me what you just said cuts against coming in with anattitude of justifying u,hat's been done. Because it looks like you've
already made up your mind if you're there justifyins it and I'm not crazyabout that.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
Oclober 77, 1990 - Page 29
that was a bad notion. ttelI, is that really a justification for doingit? I mean just sort of philosophically I said you're either in the MUSAor you're outside the MUSA but we're not going to carve islands out of the
middle.
conrad: So you don't uant Lo say that during the meeting?
Emmings: tleII no, I uiII. I'm notthe way I think it ought to be.
shy. I'Il certainly say that if that's
Conrad: I think Lhat's appropriaLe.
Emmings: But I don't knoul , thaL's not really based on taking into
consideration what the reasons he HanEs iL. It's more, it takes such a
much broader view, It's not ve)-y specific
Conradr See, nobody cares. WeIl they aII care about their opinion but the
most important thing to the public is that we paid attention to what they
said and we came up with our ob,n decision and right or wrong, they iust
b,ant to know that we paid atteni:ion to them. If we can project that,
that's half the battle. You still don't have to agree and they don't have
to agree with us but you've got to teII them we paid attention because
that's the most irritating Lhing is when, Iike the group tonisht. They say
well. uhy are we here.
Emmings: And Lhis was a perfecL example of what we'11 see again because
they uere so convinced that ure didn't have their interest at heart that
they didn't listen to us when we talked. I teII them this isn't rea.Lly an
issue for here but you give them something like take your concerns to the
Cj.ty CounciI. They immediatley say oh yeah, Iike you're trying to snow
them uhen in fact you're trying Lo tell lhem hor,l to deal r^rith Lheir
concerns within the system that we have. They didn't hear that.
BatzI i : It's frustrating to. . .person
that .
that doesn't have Lhe authority to do
conrad: But we're conducting a public hearing.
Ahrens: Hour are He going to handle the presentations? I mean I imagine
people r^rilI come in, some PeoPIe with quite deLaiLed Presentations.
Krauss: tlell I think the meeting management is a real issue and in the two
previous meetings you gave people a strict time Iimitation and you gave
them one shot and if time permitted, you gave them a second. I think
that's real important to keep in mind. hle were even more focused during
those neighborhood meetings because r.re split the city in half. Belaboring
a point. Having 2O people standing up saying the same thing or rePeating
the same thing Lhat you've heard on 3 previous occasions needs to be
directed somewhat so they understand that they've been heard but it's not
bulk that maLters, it's content. And I think setting a real time limit on
how long people can speak and if people h,ant to give you additional
documentation for you to peruse at a follou-uP meeting, I think that's
reasonable !o do and I don't know but I wouldn't be surPrised if some of
that happened. I was telling Commissioner Ahrens, in the Packet you've got
in the comprehensive plan, in tlre end of it I have a comment section which
Planning Commission l.,teet i ng
October 17, f99O - Page 30
conLains the dozens of letters I've gotten. Neighborhood pIans.
NewsletLers. Articles. Responses. BasicaLly up to this point in time andthey're in chronological order from the most recent to the past.
BaLzIi: I assuFe if you
length of Excelsior's?
get those out, our comprehensive plan would be the
Emmings: They've got 2,5OO people. I just never realized Excelsior h,asthat smalI.
Batz]i: I never realized you could put a comprehensive plan in 30 pages.
Emmings: tje're doing something wrong.
will have to be well organized and I don't know howAhrens: Presentati onsyou want to do that.
Batzli: f know. I know but give them 5 minutes and if there's time at theend of the meeting he can talk again-
Conrad: trlhat's our timeframe at that schoo]?
Krauss: 7:OO to 11:OO. And we've got to be out.
that's 12 an hour.Batzli: At 5 minutes per person,
Conrad: Jay?
Jay Johnson: f 've been getting anywhere from 2 to 3 letters a week fromthe landourners along TH 5. That is going to be probably the significantgroup in there addressing you- That group of landowners- Every one of
them says the same thing, Not quite exactly the same uords. They didn'texactly plagerize, . .
Emmings: One thing I proposed at one time and I don't know if it would
work but when you've had these mass meetings, if it turns out that there's -1OO people there or 15O people, you }et somebody speak and then just ask,if there are other people in the audience who share this point of view, putyour hand up and then put on the record some idea of how many there are
because you might d.iscourage them all from feelins Iike they have to geL up
and say the same thins.
Ahrens: I agree because there are some areas as we know that are more
organized than others and I think it's frustrating to other people too tosit there h,hen they think they have a concern that's just as legitimate as
25 people who are trying to get up and speak on their issue and it lakes up-everybody's time and it takes time away from. I know we u,ant to listen to
everybody but I think Lhat it's frustrating for us.
Emmings: Rivkin can't give his address in that.
Ahrens: I liked that.
Batz]i: tJhat if you give them 5 minutes max?
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October 17, t99o - Page 31
Emmings: They aII say they're going to sue the city.
Jay Johnson: Oh no. They don't- say'that veL .
did then.Batzli: You got different letters than I
Emmings: I got letters that sa.i.d that.
Batzli:the most
each onethe city
have the
I think they uill
significant group
of them. I thinkthat come in as a
most bucks beh i nd
be a significant group. They may not even be
by numbers unless they bring a lot of attorneys
we're going to see landowners norLh and south ofgroup wiII be sheer numbers. Maybe they don't
them or number of blue suits in the crowd but.
Emmings: So there will be 5 mi'1uLes per person and then if they could come
back up if after one pass through, they could come back up and have a
second shot if there was time. That sounds fair.
Krauss: I guess I envisioned after the public hearing coming back to you
at a fo]low-up meeting, a regular meeting and putting an agenda item on.
Are you prepared to pass this a.long to the City Council with the comments
you receive that you'd want to do anything else to it.
Conrad: So iL is a public hearing. It requires a motion.
Krauss: !.lell, you can either act to close the public hearing and act topass, or recommend approval of t-he comprehensive Plan is basicallv whaLyou'd be doing. or you could just close the public hearing and hold over
action on the recommendation to a fuEure meeting
Emmings: That's what we should do because we should get a
from staff of the content of the meeting. Consider it and
a long .
summary I
then pass
thinkit
Batzli: But those people may want to be at the meeting when we do the
act ion .
Conrad: They misht r.rant to hear what we're doing.
Batzli: Unless ue want Lo do a second public hearing.
Krauss: You cou].d theoretically do that.
conrad: Basically what we have to do is take down a list of their concerns
and we have to decide whether additional thought has to be given to those
concerns. Additional research. AddiLional whatever. If we decide not, we
could move it onto city Council and they'd aII be in attendance watching
us.
Emmi ngs: You mean do it there?
Che spoL .Right then onto delay.
If ue don't have the information, then weConrad:
do have
Emmings: But you're rather just take care of it there?
Planning Commission l.leeting
October 77, 7990 - Page 32
Conrad: I think we should discuss *here we hrant to go and not hide it anddo it aL an additional meeting. They rlant to hear where ule,re going. Theywant to hear what we're doing and what we're giving to the City Council soI think the way I'Il handle the meeting, unless you teII me not Co, I'IItake, we'Il be listing down the comments and when we cl.ose the public
hearing ure're going to go around the group and respond to each one of thoseand decide as a commission. tre'II vote as a commission whether to reopenthe issue or not,
Batzli: If we reopen the issue and do further study or change the plan,
do€s that then reguire a second public hearinE on the modified plan?
Conrad: I don't think so.
Krauss: I don't think so either but I guess I'd have to ask Roger that.suspect it misht hinge on the €xtent to which you,ve changed lt.
Conrad: You should find out.
Emmings: You knoh, in other mattera uhere ue have public hearinEs, we lotsof times chagge thern. tle did that tonight.
I
Batzli: But this is of such import thdt if you changed itseverity and then moved it on at a subseguent meeting Hhenwasn't a lot of people in the crowd, I think there'd be afoul pIay.
Emmings: Yeah if you moved a line. Like aII of a suddenwas residential is now industrial .
BatzI i : Yeah.
r^ri th
ther eIot of
anyreaIIycries of
someLhing that
Ahrens: So Ladd, how much timethinss? Are you going Lo close
Batzli: If we have to be out of
have to close it at 1O:3O.
Conrad3 Or close it at 1O:OO.
are you going to give us to discussthe public hearing at trhat time?
there by 11:OO, I mean you're going to
Emmings: ts there a t"lor Id Series game that night?
Ahrens: It might be.
Krauss: It's not going to go 7 gamcs.
-
Ahrens: Yes it may. Last night Has great.
Conrad: Okay. I gave you, remember what I gave you a
Emmings: I gave it to Tim.
Conrad: Any comments at this point in time? paul, itrecommendation on our Bloomberg deal. Just seeing iftalk about that now or should we wait for Tim?
couple ueeks ago.
was on your
Steve, do you want to
Planning Commission Heet i ng
October t7, ].99O - Page 33
Emmingsr You know, I read that and I can't remember. This is horrible.
I don'! want this on national television. I can't remember what I thought
about it. I'm going to have to look at it again. I gave it to Tim end
I told him. Haybe he'Il remember
Conrad: Okay, we'll brins it up later. t.lhat I was hoPing is to float this
around because I got a commenL from somebody about hor.r the staff rePorts
our decision to the City Council. our recommendation and if the staff
decides Lo override uhat ue decide, how it's presented. This was iust, you
know staff has the, it's sort of like the last word. So the issue that
I just uranted to surface, because it was brought to my attention, is staff
surfacing our opinion and their's in the right light to the City Council
and that's uhat I gave Steve to be circulated to everybody.
BatzIi:ir.
conr ad r
He immediately, not on.ly Iost it but forgot what he thought about
For got
I read
whole thi ng.the
ir and gave it to Tim. My recollecLion is that it didn'tEmm i ngs :
bolher me.
Conrad: You don't have to s!.ray them right now. It's just a case where
I wanted.
Ahrens: tJe don't sulay that easily.
Conrad: okay, anything else we should talk about?
Batzli: Have we received anything from the Hoon VaLley?
Krauss: Yeah, a Summons.
Batzli: t^,hen did we set that?
Krauss: A couple ueeks ago.
BatzIi: Okay.
Conrad: Anything else Pau l?
Krauss: Not really if you read the rePort from the Director. The only
interesting was the Redmond arrangeftent.
Conrad: Curb's going in?
Krauss: Yeah. t^lell what haPPened lrith that hras that the City Council
accepted your recommendations and ours relative to.
conrad: See that u,,as sort of trickv. h,e Heren't exactly in the same boat
with you guys as I recall.
Krauss: t^lell actualty that was that test case tyPe of thing?
Conrad: Right.
Planning Commission MeeLing
October 77, t99O - Page 34
Krauss: Yeah. I r{as uncomfortable r.rith that .
So
so
they accepted our recommendation and yours and they were
what did they?
Conrad:
different
Krauss: Yeah, to the extent that you recommended they build it the waythey urere supposed to. So they approved Lhe off site parking wiLhout anyvariances on the Lotus property. Then they left hanging the issue of what -
happens on the Redmond site proper because there u,ere two variancesassociated r.rith that, the hard surface coverage and the setback variance.
On the hard surface coverage, Redmond proposed buying an adjacent lot Lhat -we own that's got a uetland on it- l.louldn't anticipate doing anything tothe welland but by Lheir ownership of it, they've met their hard surfacecoverage requirement. I felt a Iittle uncomfortable about that because -I thought it met the letter of Lhe Iaw but not exactly the intent.
Ho!.rever, it seemed to be a relatively comfortable uray to get around thatparticular issue. t^le encouraged them strongly to buy the land from Lotus
Garden Center . The owner is not interested in selling. l.,le had put
Southwest Hetro or asked Southwest Metro to contact them and follor.r up thaL
h,ay too. But the long and the short of it was, that was the only r.ray thatit appeared possible to do it and to let them put on that plantmodification that they'd like to do so they can stay on that site with the$6 million expansion they want to do noH there. They confirmed to the Citycouncil lhat no uav, shape or form are they going to build the new facility-here. The second problem relative to seLbacks. Oh, I should tell you. t^tecourdn't agree on a price. The Assistant city Hanager calculated it basedoff of Hhat we paid for some similar property recently and thought it wash,orth approximately, I don't know, $2OO,OOO.OO. Redmond calculated theirwav and lhought it was worth $35,ooo.oo so Lhere's a significant variance.
Conrad: On a price for what?
Krauss: tlelI, if ue're going togoing to be paid for it.seII them that 1.5 acre uelland, we're
Conrad: So Chanhassen owns that?
Krauss: Yes. And it's not a matter of the dollar. I mean it's a matterof paying real dollars. tJhat b,as agreed to }las Lhe retention ofappraisers. One representing us. One them and if they need a third party.they can mutually decide and both parLies had agreed to abide by theirdecision. There's no clear direction as to h,hat that money might be spenton. That's something the City Council would have to look at. BuL theyhaven't made a decision on that.
Conrad: It should be to acquire more welland.
Krauss: l.lell that was initially the staff thought too but on the otherhand, we're not Iosing the r,retland. I rnean there have been a number ofinstances in the past eJhen a wetland's being altered that you buy areplacement wet.Iand and give it to the city but Lhis wettand,s not beingchanged at aII. It's going to look exactly the way it does right now.
Conrad: It's real clear you're getting around the law. It's not what the,the intent of the 70? impervious surface is you know, there's a real intent-
Planning Commission MeeL i ng
October 17, 1990 - Page 35
for that and they're getting around that intentI have no problem taking that money and putsting
to meet what we have the 7O? impervious surface
about tha!. It's clear to me.
by acquiring wetlands soit some other place to tryfor. There's just no doubt
Krauss: WeIl. I guess it's fair to say that Redmond doesn't particularlv
care uhat we spend it on. It's up t,o the City Council. The second matterof the parking setback is going to be resolved based on a suggestion that
Councilman Johnson made. That tre look at a performance approach to that
and the Council ultimately approved giving them a variance on the
assumption that we're going to change the ordinance to allorl them to do
what they're going to do and have asked us to bring forth to you an
ordinance amendment that does achieve that performance standard. At the
same time too I was going to throw on, I spoke to our City Attorney and thebuffer yard concept that ue have adopLed in our comprehensive plan needs to
be reflected in the zoning ordinance and since it relates to mostly parking
Iot setbacks, I figured I'd tie the tu,o together and come through you with
one ordinance amendment that took care of both.
Batzli: Change the BF district back to A-2 in Lhe same feII swoop righl?
Krauss: Oh yeah.
conrad: [.,hen are we going to review the BF district?
Krauss: t^lell Chairman Let's get, I keep Hanting to do these things and
Iet's get the comprehensive plan out of here and we can do a].L of those.
Krauss: If you say so.
Batzl i: It's getting to
Krauss: t^leII, whenever
be late f al I .
iL gets real close r.re just change the date.
conrad: Let's take a look at t.hat. I had a vision for that property. I
did and now I forgot it. It was real clear how to handle it down there.
After one meeting - Yeah, I h,ent home and I hrrote it down exactly how to
deal with it.
Emmings: Then you gave that to me and I I ost
iL.
it.
It was one of thoseconrad: I've forgotten totally how to doil.Iuminations. Gone. Anything else?
Batzli moved, Ahrens seconded t-o adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried- The meeting uas adjourned at 9:35 p.m-.
SubmiLted by PauI Krauss
Planning Di r ector
Prepared by Nann opheim
Conrad: Is that pretty much close to a highesl priority after the
comprehensive plan?
2
3
REVISED NOVEXiIBER 1, 1990
STATUSONGOING ISSUES
conprehensive Plan Issues
1. Conprehensive Plan Update
zoning code Amendments
1. Blending ordinance
2. Rezoning BF Dist. to A2
Sign ordinance(Iow priority)
Tree Ordinance - Mapping ofsignif icant vegetative
areas
Rezoning 2! Acre Lots to RRDistrict
other ftems
conputerize land use files,pennits, conditions and
expiration dates on aparcel by parcel basis
Reappraisal on rretlandissues, ordinance and
rnapping in conjunction
with stono water management
and water qual ity plan
Amendments to MUSA Boundary Adoption 12/90
Future Use for Areasoutside the !!USA Boundary
Reconmended for approval by PCon lo/24/90 - Adoption by cc!2/9O - Full implenentation
spring, 1991
1995 Study Areas - work effortto begin after adoption of new
Conp Plan
Staff directed to develop
scenarios - low priority
Scheduled Di scuss ionl Sta f fdirected to draft a potential
new zoning district ordinance -winter, 1991
Inactive
Inactive
schedule futureWinter, 1991
agenda
Ongoing - cuPrs completed
staff processing a positionpaper to review rrettrand
ordinance and enforcement
Budgeted money for update 2year timeframe or storn waterutility fund
Winter, 1991
3
4
5
1
2
3
Spring, 1991
Definition of structures
Shoreland ordinance
5
6
flood Zone ordinance
Grading/I,lineral Extraction
Review ).egislation and
ordinance pertaining to
group homes
winter, 1991
ordi.nance adopted
winter, 1991
Adopted by city council
Approved by CC on 3/26/90
PC Review on Nov. 7, !990
Winter, 1991
7
I Variance ordinance and
procedures
9. Ordinance revision dealingwith lots accessed byprivate driveways
l-0. ordinance revision dealingwith requirement to post
signs of notice for
developnent
1l-. zoning Ordinance Amendmentfor satellites on
Recreational Beachlots
L2. Structures below OHm{ must
have a pernit.
13. Revision of ordinancespertaining to antenna torrers.
14. Zoning Ordinance Amendment
required by City Council regardingperformance standards for parking1ot setbacks and requirement forbuffer yards in IOP District.
15. Rural Area Policies - ordinance
changes sternming fron revisedIiletro Council PoL icies
Adopted - signs to be acquired
PC Review on Nov. 7, 7990
t DAIE /A- 36 - c76
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1
i|.44
RURAL AREA
POLICY CHANGES
PUBLIC MEETING DOCUMENT
DRAFT REPORT
OCTOBER 1990
Issued by the Metropolitan and Community Development C.ommittee
Metropolitan Council of the Twin Cities Atea
Mears Park Centre, 230 East 5th Street
St. Paul, Minnesota 55101 Tel. (612)2914359
RECEIVED
ocT 26 1990
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Publication No. 64G90-155
1
Intnductlon .......1
CONTENTS
About this Report
Rural Service Area Policies
Objectives of the Study ...:...
Authority for and Origins of the General Rural Use Area Policy
1.|
4(
5
6
9
Policy Implementation . .
Pollcy Issues Analysls
Appropriate Rural I:nd Uses
Development Density
Water Quality .........9
Urban Sewer Sptem. .........11
Impact on Agriculture ........12
Transportation - Highway Capacity and Demand l4
Locating l:rge Scale Urban Uses in the General Rural Use Area 15
Efficiency of Transitioo Area Development 17
Transportation - Transit t7
Human Services ......19
Local Govemment Serices
Lot Size and Clustering
Transition Area Development
Rec'ommendations
Preservation of Agriculture
Irt Size/On-Site Sanage Disposal Sptem Performanc€ Standards
Transition Areas
Deosity
2t
Introduction .. .. .....21Alternatives ....,.... D,
24
?5
26
26
26
28
28
D
29Inconsistent Communities
Clustering
1.
,,
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
Iand Use
Tables and Map
MDIFMap 3
Table 1, Summary of Ilnd Use Recommendations for General Rural Use Area 8
Table 2, IndMdual SAC Based on Current Requirements, 1/10 Base,
Dollar and Percentage Change t2
Table 3, Individual SAC Based on
Dollar and Percentage Change
Current Requirements, 1/5 Base,
12
1"51" 4, 6gricultural Preserves and Green Acres Participation, 1!)89 74
Table 5, Units to be Acquired for hrge-Scale Uses
for Density Altemative ...........16
Table 6, Comparison of Bristing and Recommended Policy Options
for the Rural Area .. ..... 31
1
ABOUT TIIIS REPORT
This rcport summarizes the results of the Couocil's re€raminatioo of policies contained h the
Metmpliun Dettelopmcnt and Investncfi Fmmew** (MDft) for the general rural use geographic
policy area. The report has three s€ctions. The Introductlon explains the existing poticies,- ttre
objectives of the study, the authority for and origin of the policy, and the status of is inptementation.
The second section, Polky Issues Analysls, outlines the work that was done to evaluate x,bat land
uses are appropriate in the rural area, to araluate five rural-density altemativcs, to examine lot size
and clustering options, and to examine issues for areas that are curently rural but will some day be
needed for urban development, 'traDsition areas.' The third section, Recommendations, desdbes
seven suggested changes to cunent Council policies.
The examination of rural area policies began with a series of issues papeni that were prepared and
reviewed to examine how development in the rural area affected, or was affected by, sewei sendces,
highways, transit, housing, par}s, natural resources, human services, sold waste and grants to local
government. The councilt Metropolitan and community Development crmmittee (MCDe charged
the I:nd Use Advisory Committeer with developing specific poliry altematives following a public
meeting held on June 7, 1990, at which comnents and suggestions were received from a number of
interested citizens and local officials. This report summarizes the results of LUACT uork and
presents their recommendations as approved by the MCDC for public review and commeDt on
October 18, 190. The Committee will seek public comment on these recommendations at a serics
of public meetings in November 190. This process will cukninate in amendments to the MDIF to
be completed in 1991.
Background information on the examhation of the general rural use area policies was summarized
in a publication entitled Rural Area Issue Papers (May 1990), publication No. 64G90-1o4, available
from the Council's Data Center.
INTRODUCTION
RURAL SERVICE AREA POLICIES
'I7te Metropolitan D*elopment and Inveslmen! Fmmewa* (l"DF) is the plan that sets a general
direction for future development patterns in the seven-county Metropolitan Area" and establishes
guidelines for making decisions about major rcgional facilities, lite sewers and highwa]6, that are
needed to support the commercial, industrial and residential development of the area- The MDIF
dMdes the region into a metropolitan urban service area fMUSA) and a rural service area- The
focus of the Councilt strategt on directing growth in the region is to encourage development to
occur within the urban service area-
tT\e Land Use Advisory Committee (LUAC) was established by the Metropolitan I-and Ptanning
Act (MLPA) to assist the Council in accomplishing its responsibilities uader the law. LUACs 17
members arc appointed by the Council to represcnt cach of the C-ouncil's 16 districis, plus one
additional member to ensure representation from eacb of the serrcn coutrties. At least half of the
members must be local elected officials.
I
When the MDIF was adopted to replace the Metopolitan Development Framewo* aad Metoplitan
Investnunt Framewo* iD 1!186, the Metropolitan Council identified the need to reexamine its policies
for the general rural use area for lands not suited for agriculture. This area comprises over 40
percent of the land in the Metropolitan Area. The map otr page 3 shoun the MDIF geographic
policy areas.
During the last year, the Council's Metropolitan and Commuoity Dorclopmeot Committee has
worked with its Ilnd Use Advisory Committee otr the following objectives:
Eramiw how aisting Council plkics lor the rual sewice arca luve ben implemcnted-
Eumine the rehtionship and nends of dcvelopment withh and outsidc of thc MUSA.
Review the implications of daelopncnt in thc ruml seryice arca with rcspea a tlu impact on
presetoion of agricularal lany' water ryaliE, the urban sewer systen\ cansrytation (hidtwoys
and transit), human sen ices and lnal govemtncnt sen'ices.
Claify what land uses are appopiatc in the ruru| arca.
Review the density standad that drtemincs tlu amount of develqtneru tlut can b accepted
in the general rural use area withoa advenely inpaaing the envircrunent and ttw proviion of
public seruices.
hdlirw various appruclus to dcvclaprrcN (such as clusteriag andtu la-size plicies) ttut
migfu permit the ovemll density plicy to bc tttorc rcadily adiptcd to indiviaul corurunities in
tle Mewpliun Arca
I-ok at tlu unQuc issues faced by commnitics ot the cdge of tlu dcvcloping areo, which truut
effectivcly plan lor fian qawion of thc MUSA itxo ttu ntmt savicc irci.
)
C,ouocil policy supports agriculture in this area, and residential development at densities of no more
than one unit per l0 acres computed on a 4Gacre basis (a maximum of four units per 40 acres).
Metropolitan spters (such as highways and sewen) will not be extended to serve urban-scale
development in the general rural use area The comprehensive plans of local governments must
address these policies and the prwision of services to any urban-density development that akeady
exists, particularly the operation and maintenance of on-site sewer q6tems. The consistency of local
comprehensive plans with Council policies is also a consideratioo in review of proposed expansions
of the MUSA in communities on the edge of the developing area.
OBJECTTVES OF TIIE STT]DY
-]ENERALIZED
CEOCRAPHIC POLICY AREAS
Fully Developed
Area
Developing Area
Freestandine
Cro,,vth Cen'ters
Commercial
Agricultural Area
Ceneral Rural
Use Arca
uetropolrtan
Centen
I
E
A
a
o
0
Regional Business
Loncentratrons
Rural Centers
tora' a,rx ..r thoh 5 o, Mn l9CA A EElx tocro.l oa ia urt '.tl<t .n b lnt lsr.tnrr,ln
,r a:.,irOrr'ito,"'tc ua.ocol,u; Co!,!<rl O.L CGr!.r. 612 29ElaO Th li.t b.nrGlr A. da.log,ra
art. .ra th. rur.l .r! lr ,!r.ntd ro .r th. .r.it!Flll..l urb.n t.rtl<t .,t. bqrdarY.
J
I
v
:
q
/+[.lGIOr'l
ts
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fi
AUTHORITY FOR AND ORIGINS OF
GENERAL RI]RAL USE AREA POLICIES
4
The Council has beeo given broad statutory authority by the Minnesota Lcgislature to deralop and
implement policies for guiding the overall development of the Metropolitatr Area. The rurai area
density policies adopM by the C,ouncil must be reasonably related to legitimate regional interests and
must be suPPorted by adequate study and analpis. The Councit's rural area density policies should
promote orderly and efficient urban developmen! but also recognize chansing rcgional and local
needs as development and grouth occur in the Metropolitan Area.
Since the formation of the Metropolitan Planning Commission in 1957, regiooal governmetrt in the
Twin Cities Metropolitan Area has been concerned with the coordination, planning and guiding of
growth in the region. The state legislation that created tbe MetropolitaD Council in 1967 called for
the establishment of a framework !o promote the orderly and economic development of the area.
The Council's policies for the rural areas of the region are part of that regional development
framervork and are cuneDtly embodied in the MDIF. The legal authority for these policies has been
reexamined during this study of rural area policies The Council's legal staff concluded that the
Council can adopt rural deosity policies that may temporarily restrict oi delay urban dodopment,
provided thoe restrictions do not prevent urbao grorth and are rclatcd to legitimate regional
interests. The policies should remain flexible and capable of responding to special needs and chinges
in local units of govemment in the metropolitan region.
Five policy ooncems dominate the rariors reports and studies that document the development of
Council policy for the rural area. These are the basic planning principles from which thi policies
have evolved, and which were revisited in this study
7. An uban sen'ice atea plicy mua b acconpanicn by a ruml pticy which restias graottt The
purpose of the urban service area policy and the Metropolitan Urban Service Arla (MUSA)
boundary is to encourage orderly and economic devetopment of the Metropolitan Area and
limit urban sprawl. The-C,ouncil has planned for providing urbaa rcrvices on the assumption
that a high perc€ntage of the grorth in the region will locate inside the MUSA
2- Rural uses and agriaiture are lcgitimate and pnnancnt land uses. A common miscoDceptioD
is that rural activities and agriculture are ooly temporary land ues. While some of the rural
area will eventually be needed for expansion of the MUSA" mct of the rural area will not
be needed for urban development in the foreseeable future.
3. U-rban d.crsity_developnunt in the ruml area rcsulx in demand lu laal seruiccs and sottutbnes
for mctoplitan ufun sewiccs. High density de,elopment outside the MUSA is notappropriate because it cao lead !o Prcmature and cstly demands !o €xtend regional services,and does not tal(c advaDtage of regional iovestmeots that havc bcen nade t thc MUSA"
Sd *4" eFsting service revers may be row io many rural communities, o"* roid"otr r*o
demand additional services.
4.
5
Urfun dcrcity in thc ruru| arca ahtost always has an impaa on the .rumt
chamctef of a corununity and on the pzsentation of agrianural land and tand uses. 'Ihe
concept of "rural character" can hold a variety of meanings. Development in rural
communities can result in ercion of the natural and man-made environment tbat attracted
residents in the first place. The conflicts between agriculture and exurban residents have
been well documented
Uftan dcnsity dzvelopntcttt in the ruml anea can luve advene impacu on the ryaAE of the
natural environ runl. Protecting and maintaining the quality of surface water and groundwater
is a key concern of the Couocil. The failure of on-site sen age disposal qntems and the necd
for planning to solve resulting pollution problems was a major factor in the creation of the
C.ouncil. While technological advances have improved on-site sewage disposal syaters, their
proper installation and maintenance is still a critical cotroern.
POLICY IMPLEMEI{TATION
Of 87 mmmunities (cities and townships) in the region surveyed (from a total of 97 mmmunities that
are entirely or in part in the general rural use area), 27 have planned for densities coDsistent with
the current Council policy for a maximum four per 40 residential deosity ouside of the MUSA A
larger number (z16) have planned some areas consistent with the policy, and planned other areas at
higher densities. Only 14 were found to have planned their entire rural area for densities inconsistent
with the policy.
A total of 1,235,109 acres in the rural area of the rcgion was reviewed for consistency with the
Council's density policy. Of that total, only 3u18,4O6 aoes (or 28.2 percent) were planned or zoned
at densities inmnsistent with Council poLicy, and 886,703 acres (or 71.8 percent) are planned or zoned
at densities mnsistent with Council policy. Most of the area planned and zoned for densities greater
than the Council policy is found in areas that do not have the best soils for agriculture, which
includes much of northern Anoka and Washington Counties.
The amount of residential development in the rural portioD of the Metropolitan Area was at a low
of 4.3 percent of total permits iD 1984, but increased to 6.6 perceot in 1987 and 7.9 percent in 198&
The amount of development is still beloq, the boom period of the early 19lG, when the share of
annual permits for the rural area (excluding Freestaoding Growth Centers and Rural Centers) pcaked
h 1973 at 17.7 prcent The rural use area appears to be an ongoing element of the howing market
that has existed for many years" lt ebbs and flo*s with thoee extemal factors that affect the total'
housing market Council policy has seemed to have some dampening effect on housing growth in the
rural area since the late 19G.
The number of residential building permits issucd in counties adjacent to the Metropolitan Area was
also examined" The total number increased from a los of about 1,800 in 1982 to about 3,7(X) in 198&
Duriag the last 18 lrears, the 12 adjacent counties added 63,64f people; 52 percent located in
inmrporated areas and 48 perccnt in rual parts of the counties. From the available data" it does not
appear tbe density controls impced in the MetropolitaD Area have causcd residential dorclopment
to 'move' to adjacent counties.
5
The Metropolitan and Community Derelopment Committee (MCDC) asked the knd Usc Advisory
Committee (LUAC) to develop policy recommendations on four issues: appropriate rural land uses;
residential development densities; implementation options, includiDg lot size and clustering; and
planning for transition areas, areas now rural which will be needed for urban dwelopment in the
future. This section of this report summarizes the investigations of the committee into each of these
issues.
APPROPRIATE RTIRAL I.{ND USES
What land uses are appropriate in the rural service area of the region? 'I\e Metopolitan
Developneru and Investment Fmmework proddes some guidance on what uses are appropriate from
a regional perspective, but is silent on a number of land uses that have been propced by some
communities. There is a need to clari$ what land uses are currently supported by Council policy, and
what other land uses could be supported to proride guidance for both the Council and local
governments.
It is important to remember that even though a particular land use may be acceptable in the rural
area from a regional perspective, the Council will not recommend that every community provide for
erery poasible land use in its rural area if it uould not be co$istent with locd plans. All uses uould
also be subject to any permitting or licensing requiremenB.
Whether a land use is appropriate for the rural service area depends on a number of factors:
. Whether or not it is compatible with other adjacent land uses;. Whether it meets environmental quality staDdards;. Whether it fits with the design scale of other land uses in the area;. Whether a use requires a rural or urban level of support services;. The need for an isolated or spacious location;. If the use might change the'rural character'of the area; and. If the area will be developed for urban uses in the future.
The MCDC and LUAC rerriewed land-use policy for all parts of the rural rcrvice area Their
conclusions and recommendations are summarized belou, and on Table l.
The Commerclal Agrlcultural Policy Aree is that part of the region which locat govemneots have
certified eligible for agricultural preserves under the 1980 Metropolitan Agricultural Prcscrves Act
The Council recognizes tuo letrcls of protection in the commercial agricultural area Thc primary
protection area is that land protected by an agricultural preserves covenanL For such land the Aa
specifies what land uses are allowed I-8nd that is c€rtified eligible, but aot covenaated is considered
the. secondary Protection area For this area, the MDIF supports a broad range of agricultural
activities, with a residential density ofno more than one single-family detached duelling pei 40 acres.
Commercial or industrial land uses are not supported by the MDIF. In the category of-institutional
land uses, the MDIF policy is that urban-geEerated facilities should be prohibited in the primary
protection area unless no other locations can be found and should Dot be located in the sccondary
Protection area unless they cannot be located in the general rural use arca Some additional laod
6
POLICY ISSI]ES ANALYSIS
uses that could be supported by the Cotrncil *ere identified, aad are shown on Table 1.
The General Rural Use Pollcy Area is that part of the rural area not designated for commercial
agriculture or as a rural center. It is this area that is primarily under scrutiny in thic a1udy. 'It.
MDIF currently supports: all agricultural land uses that are allor€d in the Commercial Agriculture
Policy Area; up to four single-family detached dwelling units per 40 acres; urban-generated uses (such
as recreational vehicle parks, racetracb, festival sites, campgrounds, and gun clubs); ce(ain industriat
ues (mining of sand and gravel, and urban-generated uses that require a spacious location away from
people); and institutional uses (such as waste disposal installations, parks, trails, open space, and
unique natural or conservation areas). [hamples of additiotral land uses that could be supported by
regional policy were identified and are shown on Table 1.
The Rural Centers Policy Area iacludes the small tovDs that formerly served as centers for retail
services and transportation for the surrounding agricultural area" but now in many cases are
residential areas for urban people and locations for industry that have fittle or no conoection to
agriculture. The MDIF supports all agricultural, residential, commercial, commerciaVrecreational,
industrial and institutional land uses, consistent with available sewices No additional land rses have
been proposed for this policy area.
7
Table l:$rrnrne1y of Ittrd Use Reconnendatlons
for the General Runl Use Area
Poliq lrG.Irld UE CurFurly Support d Er[plcr of (Xhcr CoEdst !t IrDd UrG!
Agrktlturat k@d raogp of agrlf,rltural
laDd u!cs; for prinary Foa€clin arc€st
uscs cmsigcnt sith 1S0 Agrkrltural
Pr€sanrcs Act
R6idcDthl rtoSlc hmit, l/4O
Coomerciaulndustfial: Not arpportc4
otbcr tban saal m-hrm opcratioo6
oamaly 6sa cd sith farming
Institutboal Urbso gcffiatcd ftcilitix\
nrct as rasr€ dispcal bdtitB Fohiutcdfrm primary protcclim 8rcG uol6s oo
dEr lc&)o a\.eilablci ptohititcd froo
sccoodary protcctbo srca unkss Do sitc in
Scneral rural ula arca aailablc.
Agrictrltural All uses lbtcd for
Commcrcial Ag'icu ltural Poliry Arca
Residentiat Singlc hmily, 'V40
Commcrcial,/Rc.rcarional & Urban-
Gen€rated Usas: ulbar-gcneratcd uscs,
iDcluding rccrcatiroal lrchiclc parts,
racetracks, festival sitcs, frhpgrouDds! gun
dubs . olhcr similar ftciliti6
Itrdustlil* tand aod gravcl mining o
urbaD-teDcratcd us6 thst rrquirc I
spacixrs, isolatcd l@tioo
Instirudooal urbaD-gcocratcd uscs, a$t
aa qastc{ispocsl in3.!Ltilns . pattt
raih! opcD specc, odEr similar bciliaics .
unhuc oatursl d cooscn atir artas
Gcnerel Rurel Usc
Ar.8
Agridlturat hlc bErdiog aDd raiaiog. tcDacls . fsb produclbo 8Dd
pr(Bang . Erq'a8c 8rras a buildings
Residcotht GsfiyapanDcDur
CmrnerciaulDdu$riat NONE
Itrstirutboal: NONE
A8riqrlturat AII additioal uscS adoprcd
in rbc cqDDcrcial agricultural arca . rod
ErEs . trce hrEs
Rcsi&ntiat Tbio bmcyduplcrcs
(Dccting deEity stsodard) . c6y
apanmcnts . grouplivilg b@6 witb
shercd cootbg facilitics
CommcrciauRc6ratimal & Urban-
GcDcra&d Uscs. Dcig!ffiood qwoicDcc^crvkr/r€tail
us.q such 6 fDaDcial otEccs, vitco stor6,
Sasolin€, grGricst daFarc ccnters .
mmrcjalAcrvir/retail us.s adje to
or scnrcd by cdsting octro bigbvap .
sSricuhural producs prGdng . hooe
cupatioc . daycrrc oeolcrs . bed aDd
b(€athst lodging bcilirica . urban
SeDcrated us6 iDcludiDg Fivstc airportsr
ldid wastc bciliths, 8uto sslvsgc aDd
rccldint . &otin aDd &.ra offc .
l8odiog at!a6 br ultr8ligha 8d Dodel
drylaB . rrtrras hcilitics . golf oslics
IDdustrit rDs[ EaauEdusiry 6rns
airipadDg frm hm G1rpatirs .
urbn-gcocratcd urcs luci 83 dl a
lrsoliDc slqagp taot hrDq !oli, vastc
lrmsfc?FGint t ciliticf rcfrcri.B
IDariNtirat lctmB . cturctc3 .
c?mcrcrics . urbD-gcocratcd ulci
ioduding iaAq prirdsr puua rtupodst
srslcdispcal inlra&timr o buoao
lcNicc 89cffi, r.tcllitc ofEcc.
8
Cooocrcirl
ASricrolturrl kSlo!
DEVEI.OPMENT DENSITY
The MCDC directed the LUAC to analyzc fine alrcmatives for the rural density policy. Thcsc were
selected to eDsure that the broadest range of dcnsity alternatives uould be reviesed. Thc alternatives
were:
1 acre or
212 aqes or
5 acres or
10 acres or
20 acres or
40 units per 40 acres
16 units per 40 acres
8 unis per 40 acres
4 unis per 40 acres (cunent policy)
2 unis per 40 acres
Each of the five alternatives was reviewed by the LUAC based on criteria reviewed and approved
by the MCDC. The criteria were selected to re0ect issues raised in tbe rural area background papen,
the discussions of the LUAC the MCDC and the testimony presented at the Juoe 7, 1990, public
me€ting. The criteria selected are tsted below, in the order of priority recommended by LUAC:
Water Quality
Urban Server Sptem
Impact on Agriculture
Transportation - Highway Capacity and Demand
Locating LargeScale Urban Uscs in the General Rural Use Area
Efliciency of Transition Area Development
Transportation - Transit
Human Sewices
Local Govemment Servic€s
An effort was made to choose criteria that could be evaluated numerically. However, the nature of
several of the criteria was such that they <ould not be quantified in this manner. In these cases, each
alternative was evaluated according to tbeir performance relative to each other,
There was an attempt to develop additional criteria to evaluate the impact of the density policy on
the housing market and on school districs. An analpis of housing market issues for the rural area
shor ed that the outlook for rural housing appears to parallel that for the urban area No data was
found that suggested that one of the density altematives was "better' than the others. The decision
was made not to include housing market issues as spec'iEc criteria in the deDsity analpis. Becarse
of school district boundaries, it was impcsible to isolate data for anallnis of impacts of various rural
density policies on school districts. The impact of development on school districts is more clmely
related to whether new capital facilities are necded to absorb additional studetrts. Therefore, no
specilic criteria relating to school districts were ued in the anallrsis.
Water Quality
As the rural area develops, it changes land use &om some aisting use to a rural residential,
commercial or industrial use. Depending on the prgrious tlpe of land use and the intensity of thc
new rural residential uses, the change in usc can either increase or decrease tbe impacts on surface
water and groundwater. Water contamination can result from increased trutrient loadings (both
9
phcphorou and nitrogen mmpounds), increased organic loadings or increased pathogenic organisms.
Common sources of nutrients are fertilizers and weathered rock atrd soil Common rcurces of
organics are soils, pla[t material and human 1ad animal waste products. Heaty mcta\ rolatile
organics, pcticides, insecticides, herbicides and other hazardou wastes can atso contaminate both
our surface water as n€ll as groundwater from various activities of perrcns living on the land-
10
If the previous rse of the land was undeveloped (natural)-the least iatrusive land use type-the
amount of phosphorous that could be exp€cted o run off into nearby surface water nould have a
range of 0.08 - 0.26 pounds of phosphorous per acre per,€ar. If the land war aa active pasture, it
could be expected that four times this amount of phosphorous would run off. For high-intensity row
crops, the amount of phcphorors runoff could be 11 times higher than that of undeveloped land
The amount of phsphorous that runs off into nearby lakes aad streams muld dramatically change
from the average conditions reported abovg depending on the soit types, the management
-practiA
in place, the amount of precipitation, the proximity to surface water and a number of other factors.
In the case of rural residential development, none of the studies reviewed have differentiated
between various densities and changes in waterquality impacts. Moct studies have defined rural
residential as lot sizes of about one acre. A 5?icat house on a lot of this size would have between
10 and 15 perc€nt imp€rvious surface area that would allow water to run off very rapidly, Based on
various studies, a lot of this size would contribute about four times as much phospliorous to a lake
or stream as an undeveloped, tratural lot. This is about the same amount of ruooE as pasture land,
but thre€ times le.s.s than intensively farmed row crops.
As development beromes less dense, the perc€ntage of impervious surface decreases and the amount
of runoff approaches that of undeveloped land However, as lot sizes increase, there is a tendency
to use this land in some manner, for large gardens, hobby farming or for raising hones. Depending
on the intensity of use, these practic€s will increase the amount of runoff and the amount of
contaminants and sediment in the runoff.
Both agricultural practices and rural residential development may cause groundwater contaminationif they are not done properly. Both t}?€s of land use *ili cause more coDtamination than
undeveloped- land. Io agricultural areas, fertilizen which contain nitrogen, phophorous aod
potassium, if applied in excess-of crop requirements, can enter the groundwater -rystem
and causc
contamination. In addition to fertilizers, agricultural practices use many dilferent chemicals that are
considered hazardous wast6. These chemicals must all be handled proierty ana Otposea of properly
or both surface water and groundwater contamination can resulL
In rural residential areas, septic-tank eftluent is the main concern for groundwater contqmination.
If septic tanks are Properly designd site4 installe4 operated and naintained there is little threat
to groundwater contamination. Houener, if any one of these factors is not being correctly applied,
groundwater contamination can resulL- In addition to haviog all of thesc facton -in placc, education
of the septic-tant user is imperative. Households contain many different hazardou qrastes that must
be managed proPerly. These materials cannot be ftushed into the septic q6tem without causingproblems. These materials can-r.rot be poured onto the ground without causing problems. As rural
arca densities increase, tbe likelihood of somethiog goina wrong that can impaci gouodwatcr and/or
surfac€ water greatly iocreases.
In all of the altemative densities that were considered, it was assumed that no development would
take place oo environmentally sensitive land e.g. steep slopes, wetlands, high grouodwater areas,
groundwater recharge areas, flood plains, etc. By leaving these areas vacant and undeveloped, major
portioss of many cities and tosas will oot be developable. Regardless of the density, if development
occurs in eovirctrmentally sensitive areas, water quality degradation will occur. Therefore, it is
imperative that these areas be reserved in order to protect water quality.
Urban Sewer System
Approximately 95 perc€nt of new developmeut h the Metropolitan Area is expected to occur within
the Metropolitan Urban Service Area Based on this assumption, the Metropolitan Waste C-ontrol
Commission (MWCC) has constructed intercepton atrd treatment facilities to serve this future
population and has developed its rate stnrcture to pay for these facilities. One of the methods to pay
for these facilities is the service availability charge (SAC). SAC is a connection fee that is paid by
local units of govemment for the reserve capacity portion of annual debt service payments. ln its
implementation plan, the MWCC has estimated that SAC will increase over the next 20 years because
of additional debt service and the dramatic decline in new housing starts iD the urban service area.
Even if more people start moving into the rural service area, the resultant decrease in urban sewer
needs and associated reserve capacity debt service will be minimally impacted. Between 1990 and
2005, the annual total SAC revenues will increase &om $11,7,(),0(X) to $14,720,000.
If more housing starts occur in the rura.l area using on-site qntems, a greater portioD of this debt
service cost will be born by new construction in the urban area Two dillercnt scenarios urcre
atalyzed as part of this study. The fiNt cEDario assumed that the Eve percent moving ioto the rural
area was developing at one unit per 10 acres. The second scenario assumed that this housing was
developing at one unit per five acres. For each unit assumed to be built in the one per 10 scenario,
two units were assumed to be built in lhe one per five scenario. The folloring tables show the
average conditions in five-year increments, e.g. from 1990 to 1994 is shown as 1990, etc. Based on
Council demographic projections, annual sewered and uosewered households were calculated for each
alternative density. From the annual sewered households the total number of new units and
nonresidential, commercial and industrial, growth was calculated. The estimated SAC was then
calculated based on each density alternative for various time p€riods and the percentage change from
base conditions was calculated-
Under the first scenario (Table 2), SAC in il05 muld be reduced 24 percent if the de'elopment was
at 2(Iacre density and could incrcase 76 percent if 10 tim6 the forecasted det elopment occurred due
to the 1 uniVl acre density. The table also sho*r the corresponding percentage changes.
Many simpliSing assumptions had to be made to calculate the changes in SAC However, the relative
order of magnitude between each different density alternative is the important consideration and not
the specific number. It should be remembered that, regardless of the density standard, only a certain
oumber of people will ever want to live in the rural area so some of the growth projections at lower
density altematives may trot be realistic. The highest lerrcl of rural growth reported in the region
since 1970 was about 17 percenl The Baximums in the two scenarim discussed above range from
25 to 50 percent.
11
Table 2:
Table 3:
u20 u0
Bgs
U2Yt ur
Ycar
$%3 $%t t *
1990 589 (23)600 68 3.8 675 12.5 *z 503
1995 859 (L4)n5 ff 3.7 983 t3o7 493
2000 ln1 (23)1250 1455 16.4 2162 729
Errs @ E i-.r-'il 3151 5.0 3506 16.8 5m 763GE@
hdlvldual SAC Bsscd on Current RequircDents, U10 Brsc,
DoUer and Percntage Chenge
Individual SAC Bssd on Current Requiremeutq U5 Base,
DoIIar and Percentage Change
Impact on Agriculture
This criterion reviews the impact irrcreased development might have on commercial agriculture.
There are a number of basic assumptions that underlie this issrie. tte first is that agricultirc should
be protected. This has been established as a goal by the Council and reconfirmed asiecentty as f9g6,wheo the MDIF was adopted . The second assumption h that there is agricuttural act#ty to bepreserved. ]te thiid asumption is that the loc/er the density of dorelJpment, the greater theprotection of agriculture,
Hennepin, Carer, Scott and Dakota Counties all include significant acreage that can be ch a;;31clqtiz5.l
as. tlPical, midwestem agriculture. _Crop being gro*n include so5rbeans, *ieat
"nd
corn. These crops
all require large parcels of flat farmland. In northem Washington and Anoka Counties there are f&,if any, large-scale grain farms. The agriculture uses tend to & apple orchards, tree farnso sod farms
atrd truck farms interspersed with wetlands, wooded areas and residentiat developmeots.'
u20 ur0 U5
Brsc
w
Yesr
$%t t 3 %*
1990 583 (27)(2-3)@ 68 3.8 t7.4
1995 851 (2.7)859 (/4)875 908 3.1 lgu 11.2
1207 (3.4)1221 (L3)1250 1311 1538 8.1
m5 tJr.5 (3.6),viI1 @ 3000 3151 5.0 3715 8.EE@@
t2
u2v,
q i
589 7U
M 4.8
us
tL3
1311 4.8
2929
Farmland by county is recorded in Tabh 4 along with land certified as eligible for the Agricultural
Preprves Program, land in the Agricu.lturat preserves program (mveninted) and lani with an
cxpiration date set with the meption of Ramsey, each county had a significant amount of land
farmed in 1987. The 84,o0 acres in Anoka county represents over 3.5 rtinda.d toqmships.
The land in the Green Acres Program is also recorded in Table 4. While Cawer County has a small
earollment, this can b€ explained by the large acreage certified and coaenanted for ag iresewes. A
sigpificant a&ount of land was euolled in green acres in Anoka, Dakota, Henne:pin, Scott and
Washington Counties.
Hov effective are the five density alternatives in protecting agricultural operatioDs? Tbe entire
exercise of evilusling rural area policy has tried to answer thlis {'uestion. Ttre iaea that low density
could limit negative impacs on agriculture stems from the belief that more people in the rural arei
will foster conditions that make farming more costly or will in some other way, hinder the operatioos
of farmen. Problems associated with increased development and people intlude:
1. Restricting hours of operation of farm equipment principally because of noise.2. Restricting operation of farm equipment on public roads because of conflict with slow-moving
farm vehicles.
3. Restricting farmers' use of pesticides or herbicides.4. Increased taxes and assessments because of increased land values, increased number of local
services or increased quality of local services pronided.5. C,omplaints and restrictions on farm operation because of odon and dusr6. Vandalism of farm equipment or crops.
With a one unit per one acre density, there could be 64O units per lquarc mile. The dorelopment
would have larger lots, but would be diflicult to characterize as rural. People moving to this area
would have little interest i! agricultural activities. Due to the limited buffering oEered, noise, odor
and dust could be significaat problems if located adjacent to farm operations.
In conclusion, with the exceptiotr of Ramsey, all counties have agricultural actMties that should be
protected The lower density standards provide more protection than the higher density altematives.
All five alternatives will produce more ;ceople per given land area than the commercial farming
density of 1/zl0 and, therefore, increase the poteDtial of negative impacts on farming. The one unii
per 20 acres will produce the fewest impacts due to the small number of people that uould move into
a given area. At this density, it is very ,sonceivable that those moving to the area have a serious
interest in activities or a life-style requiring a rural setting. The families might want to raise hones
or dogs or to grow some type of fruits, vegetables or tre6. Even if they only wanted a rural home
site, the land area is large enough to buffer these homes and their occupants from farming operations.
The fre-acre density uould represent eight units per 4o acres or 128 unis per square mile. This
densify is still far from that of normal suburban communities with three units per acre. Seeing a
neighbor's house would be possible, although site planning could limit such views. The buffering
effect from farm noise and odor is reducr:d at this deosity.
13
Table 4: Agrtcultunl Prescnes end Green Acrcs Prrdcipedon, 1989
LrB ol
Farolaod'
P.rc.nt ol
frrnteld
C.rtt led
84,0m 5 3,105 71,118
Car'eer 194,0@ u5u ..1lE $,43 y.307 45,rO
u5,m 2rsw 88 58,412 4rn r31395
Heorcpin 103,m &,052 58 4,0E1.57,92
Ramssy 3,(m 0 0 %
Scott 175,0@ 84,170 48 8,940 2fi9 95,49
Washingtoo 12,0@ 19312 16 1252/I,m E\ln
Totrl 92q000 6 It0,450 643v1 42,265
Sourcc: Minnesota Depanmeot of Agriculture, 1987
Ccnsus of Agriculture
Mimesota Depanmcnt of Re.€sue, Juoc 26, 1990
'De6oition: Ary parcel *tich geDeEtt€s at l€ast Sl,m of iDcmc h tbe sale of agriorltuml prcducts
"Carver Countla Acreage cenified b larger thatr thc *1€age &6nod as Emhnd. Thb b pGDlc bacaula srcas od
inctuded in ihe DOA'S definition of farrDtaDd Day be eligiblc for imtusioo b a DctropoliBD agrixltural prcscn.e (such as
soodlaDds or vrctlands).
Transportation . Highway Capacity and Demand
To estimate the present and future congestion of highwap in the rural area, the demand was
compared to the caPacity of metropolitan highwap. While there is peak-hour capacity available on
all metropolitan highwap in the rural area given 1988 traffic leriels, much of this capaciiy is projected
to !e used up by 2010. The 2010 forecasted traffic includes the growth of traffic connectini outstate
Minnesota and the region as well traffic growth from the rural area. Eight of the 14 meiropolitan
Iigt:T will have over 90 percent of the capacity used in tbe year 2010. At this percentage, the
level of service is significantly deteriorated Therefore, any additional development ihat adds to the
demand on these highwap will further deteriorate an already bad situation
Truck trafEc on these same highwap was also reviewed- on eight of the 14 highrray", large trucls
reptesented over nine percent of the daily traffic. This data iltustrates ttree points. Frnt, the
highways are very important to allow exhtiog economic interaction !o take place *nreen the Metro
Area, Greater Minnesota aDd the rest of North America. second, as ihe demand reaches the
capacity of the metropolitan highwap, it will slov goods movement and add to the c6t of doing
business. fn_tum, this may reduce economic interactioo- Thir4 truck traffc uses up highway capacit!at a much higher rate than other vehicles. Trucls acc€lerate slower and have more-aimculty
maneuvering than automobiles, Therefore, routes with high lorels of truck use have a lmrer levil
of effective capacity.
l4
fruEty ^rr-Ccttirlcd
Aing
€ovcultcd
Anoka 3,868 1310
DakoE
12266
0
5t1234
In an attempt !o illustrate the impact of increased development on thes€ highways, three examples
were prepared For these examples, it was assumed that an addition of 2,310 acres of laod over ihat
forecasted for the rural area *ould be developed over the n€rt Z) ,€als in the travel shed of threeli-g!Y"f. The 2,310 acres tepresents one-tenth of one standard tourship. Potential derelopment
of this land was calculated at fi\re deDsity levels.
th9 highyays analrzed were Tntestate_Highway 94 in Washington C.ounty, Trunt Highway (Tf! 169
iD Scott County aDd TtI6l in Dakota County. Various assumptions had to be made conceming: daily*ork trip per horsehold; the time these tripc occurred; the percentage of tripo that uould use thi
Eetropolitan highwap; the direction of the trip (either toward or away fron the MUSA) aad the
percent-of ridesharing that uould take place. The analysis conctuded ihat the developm;nt at the
Iowest density would cause little impact on the three high*"ays. Development at 1 univ5 acres and
1 unitll5 acres uould contribute enough traffic to tuo- and four-lane arterials to cause sisnificant
levels of congestion. Development of I uniVacre would bring about significant congestioD on all
three highwayc.
In conclusion" eight of the 14 metropolitan highwap that senre the rural area will have severe tevels
of congestion in 2O10 if only the development forecasted tates place. The percent of capacity that
will be used for these eight highwap range from 91 pcrcent to 198 perc€nl The incrcased iraffic
comes from both ouside as well as inside the regioo- No Batter wherc thesc trips originate, the
coDggtion will reach very high levels if the forecasts are correct
If c,e assume these forecasb are based upon rural area dcvelopment at I/10 deosity, the estimates
could be conservative. Many communities challenge C-ouncil estimates as too lorv. They belierrc tbey
will grow faster, partly becarse they permit densities higber than Council policies.
The remaining sk highwap have some capacity that caD be utilized Thc examples illustrate that
depending on the road, the demand of the added development produced by the alteroatives result
in dilferent levels of congestion. The I-94 aample is the mct optimistic-since it is a sk-lane
freeway and has relatively low congestion forecasted in 2010. All other roads harrc loler capacity and
will be using a higher level of their capacity in 2010. Tbcreforc, thesc roads have tcss capacity to
accommodate added demand The lorer density alrcrnatives produce much lmr demand since they
accommodate fewer homes and workers and" thercfore, produce faner pcak hour trips.
Based on this criterion alone, the lorer density alternatives are prcferable sincc they produce the
lowest level of added demand on metropolitan highwap.
Locating Lsrge-Scalc Public Uses in thc Gcncral Rural Use Area
Council policy recognizes many public and private facilitics €xist in thc general rural usc srea that
require isolated and spacious locations. These facilities include campgrounds and rccreational vehicle
parks, wastedispcal installatioos, airports, gun clubo aad mining sitcs. Thc general rurd use area
is an appropriate location for these facilities. The Couocil's intcrest is that thes€ facilities are
provided with adequate public rcrvices, mnsistent with local aad rcgional plans, and to the extent
po,rsible, that they do oot interfere with agricultural actMties.
15
As the inteDsity of development in the general rural use area increases, it wilt bc more dilficult and
exPensive to acquire sites needed for these activities and for the buffer areas that are desirable. As
examples, the area needed for a rcgionally sited landfill and aa intermcdiate airport arc used below
t^o coTPare the Eve density alteroatives. The minimum area required for a tandfi[ according to
council standards, is 160 acres. This includes the active Ell area as wetl as the buffer. -An
intermediate airport will require about 2,000 acres. This land is required for runwap, taxiwayr,
hangan and parking. This estimate includes space for expansioo- Ia addition" the requircd land-use
safety zones are provided at the ends of the runwap. The development in the safety zone must be
limited to us€s that are not noise scnsitive, do not @ncentrate people and are of sucl height as not
to Penetrate the ainpace of safety zones abone the ground. These land area cstimates, while not
werly generous, are intended to proride sufficient 0exibility to contain some typical airport problems
on-site. Some of the land areas could be designated for associated airport use such as industrial
development" which is less noise sensitive.
The table below shows the number of housing units that would have to be acquired if thc sites were
dleloped fully under each density altemative. These figures assume only single-family residential
units were developed.
Teble 5: UDlts to be Acquired for krje-Scelc Uses for DeDstty Altemstlvc
The nore units on the site, the greater the acquisition and relocation cct and the greater socialdisruption. Al some point along this spectrum, site acquisition for these purposes iight becomeinpossible. It is very difficult for local, regional or state oiEcials to approe irojtts that-require the
dislocatio-n of large numbers of families. Hov mlny families *ould elect& 6ma.l, ue Gung torelocate for these public purpoes? For a new park? For a waste incinerator? If fecrcr families haveto be relocated, the process of siting such facilities will be easier.
Other considerations must be recognized Since there will only be a timited Dumber of thcse largerfacilties located in the rural area, is -it valid to restrict dorclopment in the entire genJrurrt rc.ri"earea to make it easier to locate such facilities? What arc the fuiurc necds for is yet unanticipatedfacilities? What other facilities such as highwalq pipelines, electric transmission lini or p6,1o, il*tthat are sited by groups other than thc couacil will need to be located in thc rural ar&?
On the basis of this criterion alone, the lowEst density (1 unitzo acres) uould bc the mo6t prefcrable.
DeDslty Altertrstlw
Regloa.rlly Slted Leudfill
160 Acres (J589 s9 miles)
Itrrennedlat Alrpon
2,0@ Acres (3.1t9 sq. mtles)
l uniVacre 160 units
1 unit2.S acres 64 units 800 units
1 unit/S acres 32 units 400 units
I uniVl0 acres 16 units 200 units
I unit2O acres 8 unir 100 unia
l6
2,000 uoits
EfEciency of Ttansition Area Development
Transitional danelopment areas are thme land areas located outside of, but adjacent to, the MUSA
where the land uses and level of rcrvices may eventually change from a lo*density, rural pattem to
a high{eosity urban pattern. This deEnition does not consider 'transitional areas'where the
development and rclated land uses are t€trveen an urban development pattem and an agricultural
tand use pattern. The primary rearcn for desigrating a transitional area for land use planning is to
facilitate a planned chaage from unsewer:ed lowdensity, rural land us€s to sewere4 higher-density,
urban land uses.
A one-unit/lGacre density can be more easily resuMivided to a higher density, especially if it were
preplatted. The feasibility of efficient transition to urbaD densities at one uniVlO acres is second only
to the one-per-20 density, which is clearly rural. The large land parcels discourage urban small lot
development and make the feasibility of s,uMividing 2Gacre parcels into small urban lots the greater
of the five alternatives.
Transportation - Transit
The area beyond the MUSA be it commercial agrictlture or general rural use, b not eligQle to
rcceive either regular-route transit sewice such as that provided by lvfTC, or Metro Mobility Sewice.
These services are restricted to the urban area due in large part to the high cct of providing such
service to a large, lordensity area- Traosit in the rural area is provided ia each county through a
variety ofspecial traDsportation programs. These spocial transportation services are intended to serve
persons who are elderly, physically and mentally disabld nobility limited and bw income. The types
of trips served include medical" shopping, social senrice, congrcgate dining and rccreatiotr
The fundiog for these services comes through the Regiooal Transit Board (RTB) rnd county social
service agencies ftom a variety of sources, including the rural area property til dedicatcd to erurban
transit service, aad state and federal go\remment assistance. Volunteen, including individuals,
community groupo and businesses, cotrtfibute signiEcantly to some of these EEtems.
77
I-ocal communities with land adjacent to the MUSA (or freestanding growth centers, or sewered rural
centen) need to consider if any of thosr: areas should urbanize and hou, fast Then they need to
adopt a future land use plan that mapE out the future urban service areas. They also need to adopt
a sewer plan and capital improvements plan that will schedule the phasing-in of urban sewices based
on the commudty's financing capacity. The LUAC's anallah asked: what dwelopment density
staDdard would not obstruct the rural-to-urban transition process and would make the prodsion of
urban services financially, phpically and politically possible?
At a density of one unit/acre, the resulting development pattem is urban. This area could receive
public sewen and water, but it would be very expensive. Resubdividing rvould be very difficulr At
one unit2"S acres, providing urban services would be very expeDsive and perhaps impo*sible for
homeownen to afford. Due to the land area per house, resuMividing is potentially pcsible. This
density would be the most dillicult to ornvert to urban density and land uses unless it had been
preplatted, since the indMdual se,ner and water senrices would be so cmtly. I:nd suMMded at a
one-unit/five-acre density muld more readily be converted to urbatr densities, as it would be easier
to resuMivide larger lots.
The following analpis describes some of the transit services and demand that exists in the rural area
of the region and presents possible implications of rural development at various density levels. It
complements the human rcrvices analysis (see next s€ction) sinc€ the use of a variety of h,man
sewiccs is beavrily dependent on tra$portitrg the user to the provider.
A review of funding for each of the nioe separate programs found that fares only produce four
percent of the revenue needed to operate thes€ s,6tems. Suboidies are contnbuted in the following
manner: local goverooeot and othen, 30 percent; federal, 8 percenq state govemment,36 percent;
and the exurban prop€rty tax, 22 percett. In many cases, these programs use volunteeN €xtensively.
Such volunteers may drive their owu cars to take individuals to and from medical appointments or
to act as dispatchers or provide other assistance. The volunteen geoerally receive reimbunement
for costs such as mileage and parking.
Various performaoce measures were reviewed. The approximately 250,000 rides provided in 1989
cost an average of t6.84 each. The average fare received for these trip was 29 cents and the subcidy
was over $6.50 per ride. Since volunteers are used extensively to provide this sendce, the costs would
be much higher if paid staff were used exclusively.
The high cost and low revenues are not surprising. The low density of the rural areas served require
driving long distances to pick up individuals and take them to shopping centers, senior centers and
medical clinics. In many cases, individuals treed to go into the urban area for special medical
treatment Dot available in the rural area. Since the cost for this trip is not covered under mot health
insurance plans, iodividuals seek out other options.
Conclusions:
The more people that move to the rural areq the higher the number of potential users of special
transportation services. Due to the low density of the are4 passenger miles will be higher,
resulting in a higher unit cost for service, which, in tum, will result in a higher subsidy.
The average cost for special transportation trip in 1988 was about $6.85 per ride, while the
average subsidy was approximately $6.50 per ride. The costs are much lower than they rvould
be if it were not for volunteer drivers and other contributions. The level of votunteer astivities
range from 100 percent of the service provided by the Dakota County Volunteer Traosportation
Program, to no contributions by the Dakota county Area Resources for seniors (DARTS)
prograrl. More typically, volunteer contn:butions range from the 31 percent of the service hours
provided by the senior community senrices Program in Hennepin county, to the 69 percent of
the houn provided in Anoka county. volunteers accounted for 25 percent of the-trip miles
provided by the Senior Transportatioo Program of Hennepin County to 68 percent in the-cawer
C.ounty Rural Transportation Services Program. Without these contribuiions, the cost of the
average ride could be double or triple the average o6L (of course, this is not true of the tno
Dakota County programs)
In comparison, the average total cct of a Metro Mobility ride today is about t10. This
re-p-resents a subsidy of about $&50. Regular route traosit service io the region ccts aa average
of $157 per ride, which includes a subsidy of about tl.l0.
18
' Thc dcnsity of developmcnt in the rural rr€,a, even at the highest level erratuated (1 uniUl acre),
is far from the density required to achieve cGt elfective rse of regular route transit Other than
uing rolunteerq there is no iaeryensirc way to provide traDsit in the rural area
' Bas€d on this criterion alone, tbe lorcst deosity alternatives are preferable, since they wilt hold
do*,a demand for spocial trauportation scrvices.
Human Services
while the definition of 'human services' can be quite broad for the purpces of this anallais a
narrower interPretation was used tbat includes social welfarertupport, medical and public health
servic€s, but excludes special transit servirc, local govemment administration-fire, polid, emergency,
etc., and local school facilities/education.
If public co6ts for human services arc studied, population densities in the ranges coosidered in this
study (1/10 acres, 1/5 acres, 125 acres, U1 acre) are all at such low densities that there can't really
be any economies of scale achieved for mst human services. For alt these proposed densities, transit
problems are the greatest challenge. It is only at urban densities that some economies of scale for
most human service design, administration and delivery can be reached Therefore, there is probably
no clear, liaear relationship benreen human-service c6ts aDd population deDsity for the rural area
Rather, the populstloD cheracteristlcs of ln-nlgnnts have the strongest effcct on humaa-service
demands in new development--whether ln the geaeral rural use are4 a freestanding gro$'th center
or a rural c€nter. The variables that mo6t likely affect human-service co6ts in the short-run include:
. Ne€d for transportation (low inmme, puth, elder$)
Any costs associated with creating 3ad shfring satellite scrvice sites (especially if the counties feel
pressure to open up local, accessible service centen)
Self-selection of in-migrants from among persons with greater service need (e.g., welfare
recipiens specifically selectiog a home in a rural area to put their kids in rurat schools and avoid
the stigma they feel in more affluent suburban schools)
Self-selection of in-migrans from among perrcns with higher rcrvice c*pcctations (e.g, cx-
urbanites who more to rural areas to €scape 'poor scrice' associated with urban areas)
Dilferent characteristics of persons who are attracted to difierent kinds of housing options
(contrasts between th6e who move to hobby farns and thce who move to rural housing
developments, mobile home parts or single houses on one acre).
19
Conclusionsl
In the short-tcrm, therc will be discrepancies between the new in-migrana and thc indigenous
population in their level of expectation for human services. In-migrants' expectations for 'formal'
scrvices (Le., senrices prorrided by agencies aod/or government--oootrasted with 'informal" scrvices
prodded primarily by fanily, neighbon and friends) are likely to be higher, resulting in potential
conflicts about levels of public service, tares, etc.
Unit ccs for humao sewices will be higher in rural areas than in urban areas, particularly if rural
area buman-servicc workers demaad wage parity with their urban couoterparts. In sparsely
populated areas, economies of scale are harder to achiorc, and the ancillary co6t of social-service
traDsportation (becaue of geogaphic distances) makes servic€ more expensive.
In the longer term, the need for human services in the rural areas will grow disproportionately
faster than historical rat€s becaue (l) the in-migrants will eventually age aDd need help to
maiDtaiD their independence, and (2) cunent treods in human services are to reducc the
coDceDtrations of persons who are likely to use senrices-disabld handicapped, elderly, etc"
'Agitrg in plac€' and 'mainstreaming'persons with disabilities (described above) will make human
services increasingly depeodent on adequate traDsportation services. Transit is the glue that holds
the human service sptem together-if the services are available, you will have to tavel w get
them--or have them travel to get to you (this would also affect cost).
Different standards will be developed f61 [rrm61 s€rvices in rural areas. For cxample, the
Council's health policies were developed acknowledging different standards for services in urban
and rural areas. Because of the population density and cost-efficiency factor, (a) availability of
services, (b) the typ€s of services available, and (c) response times for emergency services are
dilferent in urban aod rural areas. It is proposed that persoDs who choose to live in rural areas
will have agreed to a different level and quality of sewices, commensurate with the resources and
constraints of a rural setting.
The type of housing that is developed, and the kind of commerciat de,elopment that is
accomplished- will profoundly affect the characteristics of persons who chooee.to iD-migrate.
Attracting affluent persons may result in high61 service expectations and standards (aod ccts);
in-migrans who are raising families will increase the need for educational facilities'and public
transit; in-migrants who are less_ affluent may be at higher risk of needing welfare scwiccs during
economic slowdowns; etc. All in-migrants will erentually get older and need some public or
private assistance to remain iadepeodenr
20
Iacal Govcmment Senices
Four local semices were anal,,zed: fire protection, police, emergency medical and solid-waste
collection. Due to the nature of -thexie sewices, specific differcntiaiion between the density
altematives was not possible. Instead, the standards were included to allow a better understanding
of how these services compared to the urban area of the region. The follox,ing conclusions were
reached:
' Fire, police, emergency nedical and solid waste services are all available in the rural area.
' While services are available in the rur.al area, the level of service is less than in the urban area.
Response times for fire, police and emergency medical service are longer. Some communities do
Dot have 24hour police patrol sewicr:.
. Clearly, in the case of fire protecti<)n, the cost of service in a rural are4 reflected in tire
insurance premiums, is higher. EmergBncy medical service is also more expensive because of the
greater distances traveled-
An attempt was made to quatrtiry the impacts the altemative development densities might have on
the levels of local government services that may be demanded. The changes in opera':ng and debt-
service expenditures by local govemmens for police, fire, streets and sarer and water were compared
to the increases in the number of households. Data for both rural and urban communities were
reviewed No statistical evidence was l,"ound supporting the theory that more households will
automatically result in a higher per houehold level of ecrpenditure for all servic€s. The level of
service offered by local govemments iD the region varies widely, and is a function of many facton,
including a lot of intangibles" like the current level of service that exists, potitical concerns, history
and expectatioos of residents. Anecdotal evidence suggests that if aew residents with higher
expectations move into a commuoity, it increases the likelihood that they will demand h'gher levels
of service, such as paving a previously grareled road, faster snow removal or new park and recreation
facilities.
LOT SIZE AND CLUSTERING
The regional density policy establishes ther limit of how much development should occur in the rural
area. But how the density policy is implenented is also very importanL The policies on lot sizes and
clustering that accompany the density standard provide for flexibility to meet local and regional
planning objectives.
Currcnt C.ouncil policy for the general rural use area erohrcd from ao earlier density policy, which
recommended a rnaximum residential density of one housing unit per ten acres, with a rninimum lot-
size recommendation of 25 acres. The maximum area orcr which the demity could be calculated was
not specified In their comprehensive plans prepared in the early 19&h, a number sf 6pmmlniligs
propced variations of tbe policy that calculated deEity oo a community-wide basis. While the
Council found that clustering could preserve large areas ofopen rural land it was concemed that the
density limil was Dot tied to a specific land area and could allow large-scale dorclopmeot to
conc€ntrate in one area,
2t
The policy was revised in the l% Metoplitan Developmet and Investmcnt Fmmay** (lt{DIF).
The 2.5-acre minimum lot size was dropped, and the requirement that density be calculated over 40
acres was added- Provided that the 1/10 density is not exceeded, there is flemibility for local
goveroments to denelop their own lot size and other zoning or subdivision regulations.
There is demaod aod justification for additional fl€xibility in the policy for a number of reasoos:
. The policy needs to adapt to the diverse character of the rural landscape. Some areas have good
agricultural soils that are actively farmed- Some areas have lakes, wetlands, wildlife areas, large
areas of public lands or difficult soil conditions.
. Clustering could encourage a morc effrcient and cost-effectirae development pattern-
' Homes on large lots may be more disruptive to agricultural operations than clustered
development or smaller lot sizes at the same density.
. More flenbility may improve acceptanc€ of the overall density policy by local gwernments.
Alternatives
A wide variety of zoning flen'bility devic€s that could be used to implement an overall density policy
were examined They generally fell into the following categories:
Mtnleum latltze: The simplest and moct common zo"ing standard for implementing a deosity policy
is a minimum lot size. A lGacre minimu5 lot size would effectively implement a one per l0 density
Policy. It is easy to administer. But it can r6ult in an inefficient development patterD, and wastes
land because tbe lots are too large for the house but not large enough for another use such as
farming. I-arge lots also result in more land removed from agricultural production than if the lot size
were smaller. In fact, it may be desirable to contrcl tbe mazimnt lot si"es if agricultural presemation
is the goal. The Council does not currently recommend a minimum lot- size requirement as a method
to implement the density policy, Dor does it recommeDd a maximum-
Performance zonins: In its pure form, a performapse zoning ordinance would establish maximum
permissible impacts which must not be exce€ded by a developmenl If the statrdards are met, aDy use
is permitted. A disadvantage of this approach is that large data sets must be develo@" nainjiiasd
and interpreted to determine land capabilities, which can require sigpi6cant stafr resourc€s aDd
administrative burdeos. Therefore, few communities use a purely performance approach to zoning
but performatrce standards used in tandem with more traditional 26ning is "ery conmon An
SPortant example of performance standards are requirements for on-site sewage iisposal qntems.
The required lot size may vary depending upon soil characteristics. A house may require only a one-
acre lot where rcil conditioos are excellen! but may require firre acres wheri soils are niarginal.
where soils are "nsuitable for on-site qisteDs, no development should be permitted.
The Council_currently prwides perfolmance standards guidelines for on-site q6terns as part of its
Wastewater Treatment and Handling Policy Plan- Not all local compreheosive-plans are'consistent
with these requiremens. And the extent to which mmmunities actu;[y enford the standards they
adopted io their plans is not clear.
,,)
Iransfer of dg:velogment rishs (IDR): TDR is an approach to zoning where the right to dorelop
h sepatated from the property and may be uansferred to another parcel In some cases a IDR
development rights Sant' is established to facilitate transfers to other owners or the local
governneat its€f might purchase development rights from some parcels. Adminirtration of a TDR
q6tem can be very compler It is also a fairly new approach that may run @unter o traditional
ootions of property rights. Use of TDR in Minnesota has beea extremely rare, although limited
versions have been incorporated into clustcr zoning concepr in a few communities.
Clusterins and olanned t develoDments (PUD):In a cluster denelopment, individual lots may be
as small as practical, provided the our6g16f,nits do€s not exceed that permitted bi the density limit.
For example, on a l@acre parcel with a 1 per 10 density limit, 16 units could be clustered on small
lots on one part of the site, with the remainder of the land reserved for opeo space or agricultural
use. Clustering provisions ia 2sning ordinances may be simple or mmpler PUD provisions are one
mechanism that may be used. The advantages of clustering are many. Homes can be sited to take
advantage of site amenities such as woods or lakeshore, or to arrcid development coostraitrts such as
poor soils for septic qntems or wetlands. Csts for public improvements such as stre€ts and utilities
can be reduced, which may reduce the cost of housing and ongoing service oosts. More land can be
kept in large parcels suitable for farming or to protect se$itive environmental features. A primary
disadvantage of cluster development is th,at it is more complicated to administer then cooveDtional
minimum lot-size zoning.
Issues that clusteritrg policies must consicier include:
Defining developable land- Should public land areas be included when determining the permitted
number of units to be developed unde,r a clustering approach? What about other undevelopable
land, such as wetlands or steep sloper;?
Maximum area for clustering. Computing density over larger areas would increase flexibility,
Options mnsidered include clustering based on the current 4Gacre standard, 160 acres, 640 acres
or even a oommunity-wide basis. As the size ofthe area and the number of land owners hcrease,
clustering becomes more complex and may require the use of tmls such as TDR An4 as the
size of the area increases, so does the number of udts that caD be clustered itr a small area. The
resulting development might be out of character with a rural commuoity, and may result in
demands for urban-level s€rvic€s.
Minimum area for clusterhg. A pan of any clustering scheme will be the minimum amount of
land required for each unit This muld be determioed by a lot size, or by performaDce standards.
Current C.ouncil policies uould indicate that a minimum should be determined by the standards
for individual on-site sewage disposal systems. The minimum size could possibly be decreased
with the use of community draffields. Current Council policies, however, qould support such
systems only to abate pollution problems from existing developmens. And many communities
and homeowners may not find them ac.eptable" These issues were addressed in the
recommendatioos for a revised cluster:ing policy, which are found in the following sectiotr of this
reporL
23
TRANSMON AREA DEVELOPMENT
Local units of govemment need to consider whether urban derrelopment is going to come to the rural
service area of their communities. If communities do not plan for their future urban service areas
before development occurs, it is pGsible that land uses and development patterns may later block the
contiguous, efficient atrd cost-efrective qtension of urban services. This can result in added coss at
the local level, and under-used metropolitan sewer interceptors \rith less urban density development
to pay the fees that finance the sptem.
Couocil staff researched local comprehensive plans and talked with local plannerc in a oumber of
Metro Arca commudties that have experienced the urbanization of rural tand, and prepared a series
of case studies. Their planning for the conversiotr of rural land to urban land genJrafy fit into one
of three approaches:
(1) Iarge-lot or lowdensity residential development; no'urban developmeDt without public sanitary
sewers.
(2) krge-lot or lowdensity residential developmeo! with 'overlay' or "ghct' plattiDg to demoDstrate
how the lots can be re-suMivided into urban-size lots when pubffC seqrci service is available.
(3) Small-lot suMivisions witbout c€ntral sanitary sewers.
The fint approach to transition area development is the most consistent with the Council's current
policy for the rural area- One advantage of this planaing approach is that local land use controls
allow the- community to provide urban senrices in urbanizing areas in a ratioml, orderly and
sequential manner. Requests for extension of urban servic€s !o land outside the IUUSA are not
approved until the existing urban land supply is developed. If the land is io a future urban service
are4 then the communityt capital improvements plan can schedute the €xtension of urban services
at the apProPriate time. I:nd uses and development patterns that might later obstruct the extension
of urban services are not allowed. The case study communities that have used tlis planning approach
apPear to have succeeded in keeping large, rural, undeveloped and unserviced parcels ofland- intact
until they can be completely subdivided into small lots atrdprovided with urban services.
The.199n! approach, 'overlay' or 'ghosf platting, could also be workable but is dependent on theresuMivision overlay plan. An advantage is that the approval of futurc urban derrelopment can be
made subject to the availability of sewer service, and the community can allow reasonable land usesin the interim period Aaother advantage is that it can cotrtrol the pattern of new and futuredeygloppenf if there arestipulatioos on the recorded plar A disadvantaie is the need to repeat thesuMivision process and deal with many property orrners instead of onJor tu/o. This approach is
more complicated requires more stall qpertise atrd is more difficult !o ad6itrister, ana Uirc ls tittte
or no successful experience with it in the rcgion. But even with an orrcrlay plat, there is Do guarantee
that ownen of land or homes in the suMivision will agree to have their neighborhood f,iria.a tocreate small urban lots served by public sewer and water. when the re-iubdivision plan and
assessments for the iDstallatiol 9f pgblic services are propose4 property owners may 6lo"k th"process of urbanization by fightiry the rcrvice assessmenG. Thi result
-is
higher coss, becarse
services are Dot extended as planned.
24
The third- approach, permitting small klts without central sanitary sewers, clearly has the mostpotential for creating problems. Fint, the smallJot development pattern encourages local residensto thinl that thir is a permanent devekrpment pattem that will- never be urbanized- When the
proposal is made to extend sewer and wa&gr s€rvic€s itrto thc area, homeowners find thcmsehrcs faced
with very high assessments and unable to resuMivide their property ioto urban- sized lots. The local
unit of goveroment may End tbat it is potj.tically impmsible or frohibitively expensive to install sewer
aDd water lines because of how the area was allolred to deveiop. tte comnunityt plans for urban
developnent with urban services may be frustrate4 or it may be necessary to skip over these areasto provide services to more rcmote krations at a mori expensive cosr Another potential
disadvantage of this planning approach is that the failure of on-site sewage disposal qntems on these
small, contiguous lots can lead to the premature and expensive efiension ofianitary sewer sewiceif replacement drainfield sites are not available.
L:nd uses for the rural-to-urban transitioo area were also considered. I-ocal govemments may want
to mnsider whether the land us€s p€rmitted in such arcas would discourage oi pre"ent urbanizalisa
in the future. For example, a use that requires a spacious, isolated rural location should probably not
be located where it is likely to be surrounded by incompatible urban development in the future.
Transition areas are not currently part ofa separate policy area in the MDIF, so there are no specific
land use or development policies recommended. There are potential regional impacs, as well as local
impacts, hom improper development of areas that will be needed for fuiure urban derelopmenl The
Council should provide guidance for regiooal as well as local govemment planning for transition areas
in the MDIF, and in its policy plans for the regional sewer and transportation Jy,stems.
E
Recommendations for changes to the Metopolitan Development and Invesnunt Fmmanto* (ND'tt1
policies for the rural service area are summarized below. Table 6 compares the eaisting MDIF policy
with the new policy recornmendations. The Metropolitan and Community Developmeat Committei
has approved these recommendations for public meeting purposes. Final policy recommendations
will then be formulated to be itrcorporated into the MDIF. Actual amendment of the MDIF will
occur following additional public hearings yet to be scheduled Some of the recommeDdations may
also require amendments to other chapters of the Metropolitan Development Guide, such as thi
policy plans for wastewater treatment or traosportation. The comments that follow each policy
statement provide additional information or background dircussion.
l: PRESERVATION OF AGRICULTURE
The Councll should cullinue lts efiorts to pres€re tsnd sultable for agriculturel ecdvlties. Ttis
supporl should be reflected ln the MDIF ard other rpproprlete poligr doqrDents. rhe council
should re-examitre the agrlcultural preserves legislatlon to delemine how it might be modified to
be more elfecfive in preserving all types of ryrlcultunl lrnd ln lhe rtglon conslstent with rcgionel
policles.
The council continues to strongly supprt the presen ation of a mnercial agricultun and intends
all rural area plicies a be compatible with this gml The rca nvmended rcvisiotu strould not fu
thougfu of as sugesting changes in thc present plawring ard zoning for land entolled in agricukumt
prese es. All of the recommendattons were made alter considcration of bw they iW ofrra
a gricubural a ctiv itie s.
Defuing -ntrql hnd uses compatible with thc council's geneml nual ue area and agricultural
ytictgs shoua n4_fu interpzted as a nandate to laal govenunent to allow or encoumge-such uses.
The Council only inends to make it easier for laal govemmat ofuiats and rcsidenx ti unaentana
Council policies.
fhis plicy cbnfcation shottld not be interyrcted ilwt all cotnpartbb bttd uses, laated an)nlvre
ia._a_anlnunxy or ol any size, yill b acceptable to ttte cdttlcil Ttu plaming and pe*iiting ol
all land use rutst a ntinuc h the samc manner as atwa1,s.
2: IAND USE
The CouncII should clarify end expand otr the exptatratlon of compatible lrnd uses ln the nrral
aFea,
3: LOT SIZVON-SITE SEwAcE DISPOSAL SYSTEM
PERFORMANCE STANDARDS
The councll sbould melntain lts present pollcy of not requlrlng e minlmum lot slze ln the nnl
orea if the efiected cummunitles sdoPt r set of prlcdures atrd stsndrrds that ensurt the proper
design, locatlon, lns -llation, malnlenance rnd on4ol4 Eonltoritrg of on-stte stn.rgc dlspos"r
26
RECOMMENDATIONS
systenr* Speclfcalln the follwtng staldards should be followcd:
AII clenents of MPCA 70t0 mles should bc followed by the conrnunlty.
All fscets of tbe Councllts standards govemlng fhe deslgn, tocatlon, lnstaUatlon"
melntenance end monltorlng of sepdc tenk system lnclude:o Instsllation
o Permlt record keeping
o C-orrection of problems
o Ll(tnslng
o PcrsoIrel t6 g{mlnistel pm|gta6
o Inspectlot
o Date collection
o Ordinalce compliaucr
o Work records
The Councll requlre that all enmmrrnlti€s rcqulrte m dtematlve dratntreld to be slted at lhe
tlme of lssuing 1 [qildlng Frmit that Deets the soil end perctletion tests of the primary
sJrstem.
The C-ouncil rcquirr conmunities to devetop rnd lEplemetrt en edequete wclt-tcstiDg
progmm which will detect problens rtth failing oD-slt seryage trestnent systems. Such
programs should be crrsistent with and corpatible wlth stete requlrements and staudards.
The Councll rtqufue ell conDu ffes to cerdly ttey have net ttese standerds prlor to
eppmving local plan amendments or before the C.ouncil recummends eppmval of FIIA
EOreAge insurance,
The Councll should revierv tts cxistlng policies concenrlng commurity otr-slte sefirge
disposal systems rnd pack8ge treatuctrt plants ln the rural arca glven the recommendations
coDtsiDed here and duc to the iDprovcd technologr which is or nay become rvallable ln the
future"
Commanities that prasently hove performance standards consistent with durznt Cdurcil plicy
will nced b pa E additional requircmerus inu effect
27
Tlu additional perfomwtce sundards for on-sia sanage dispsal systems are iacludcl fucause
of the proposed incnaxn flaibility lo clusuring and tltc intprtance of pruteahg tlu region\
gan rdwato and tlu lwalth ol ntnl arca nsidents, Tlu rcvised plicies wanW allant a
signifuant numfur ol ttores to fu ktik Etiu close a au anotho. Tlu pafmaancc standads
an intendcd a ptovide a system to futea poblems eady, prwidc ,tethds to @st fiedivety
cdrect poblens, shottld they rcatr, and to potea against failiag on-site systems
The Cotncil is abo ammitted to prwiding an education pogram lu honuowen concemint
thc Wper use of and naintenance of orr-sire systens. Tlu Cotttrcil will prcpn guidclincs
conceming what wouU b anuidenl an ade4ute educ.ation yogram fu this pttpse, ard help
prepare and disaih.ue this infurnatbn to lm.al and coutlty gwemnurus shonld tfuse changes
be adopted-
4: TRANSITION AREAS
The C.ouncll should rdopt pollcles to protcct thc rrgfunrl htcr€st ln efilclently crpeldlng Oe
MUSA hto the tlnl rree h r stagcd erd planned meuaer rnd to help local govcrrments provlde
for this trensition.
The Council policy should r,eflect LUAC reconmeudatiotrs that Oe Do6t efEcleDt vay to dlow thls
transitioD to o(!ur ls for the local uuit fo llmit dcyelopDeDt to. very bw denslty. The C-ouncil
uecd not rcstrict communities from utilizing other too\ sucl rs ghost platdng to rddress the
trmsitiotr ere& The Council should educete conmunldes to thc pros rnd cors of the varlous
techniques tbat migDt be used to provide for the trensitlon to occtrr.
A density of no more lhatr one trdt per l0 acres should bc DrlDtalncd ln ell areas outslde tbe
MUSA. The Couucil should ctntlnue to ercoursgc communltles to phr atrd zone land sultgble for
agriculturc et o[e utrit Fr 40 acres or lo*er denslty.
The council should morc closely uonitor locel governments to eDsure that lheir plars and
regulatiotrs ore cotrslstetrt wlth the denslt5r standard.
The C,ounclt should requlre rmendneDts to tocrl plms thrt rre lmolslstctt -tth thc C-ounclps
density policies bcceuse ol the potertirt lnpoct to tDe reglonal tmsportfotr rnd *rsterreter
systems.
Thc corunittttc* a the *isting onc unit per I0 acrc dcrcity h tlu geneml ruml use area is
made based on an densive aamination of the ptential inrpaas of-higficr and lower densityl*eb- T-lu analysis of the dcnsity abernatives ilfustrated ptentiai irrrpacts on nuoopoliun
tystems lrom inoeased in tlu ruml arca Given iu ie and
couaterbalancing positive and ncgative impacts of tlu other dcrciE bvels, it was-daermirud that
the l0-acre dercity senices both local and rcgional putposes.
28
The Council Eay trot Deed to Esp r spccific transitional eree or deslgnrte It 8s r "geogrzphic.
policy aree in the MDIF. Tbc pollcy should pmvide guidelhes for deslgnation ol such ereas by
local goverooents ln thelr comprehensive phns.
Tlu Cuncil intends this policy to give it dbectiott as well as lual connunities. Given thc
potential adverse impcu that improper develqnet ia tarzsition aneas can causc, tlu Couttil
will determine what may ,Eed to fu addcd to thc MDIF, wntewater beatment and
trarcpnation plicy plarc to ensun problems do rrot &cut
since the major tlrust of thc tansition area effort will b to educate lual ofuitb of tlu
potential problems atd altemartve methds to dcal with tlurL tlu Council conld sun wfung
on this efroft witlow amendkg any policy da unent. Tlu Cancil will rcview fu luAtn wq*
progams to determine how ruuh of its rzsowees can b conunined to thb eff*t in the near
fwure.
5: DENSITY
The C,ouncil shoutd chrDge lts clusterlry policy to provlde the radnun Oet'btllty to communltles
to Pmtecl sgrlculturg preserve naturel rrees rDd to mect the denslty stendards. Arces of lakeq
rcglonal highweys .[d lard dready developed sbould be subtncted hom the hnd rrea for
calculatlng ellowrble unlts. hnd ln the MUSA routd Dot be psrt of thts celcutsdon. Stete rnd
regional parks rnd PFeserves end wetlrnds may be used to celculate ellowable unlts. The nuuber
of unlts thst edst ln the nrel erce rould hsvc to bc subtrsct€d fron the sllondble unlts. The
tntent of the policT ls to aUow comEunlties to rdopt ctusterlry tlat ls approprlate for thelr goals
and cheracteristicq but the tecbniques mtrst bc coDslstent wlth thelr plang zontng and subdlvtsion
ordhatrces.
6: CLUSTERING
Two alternatives for clusterirg are ofrered for public conmeDt
Option A:
Clustering should be Permitted and calculated on s stsndard qusrter-seclion (16i0 acres) basts.
Given the U10 density, lnd no minimurtr lot sizg the allowebte 16 utrits c.ould be clustered otr s
relatively small parcel of land vithin the quarter-s€ction and the remainlng land presened. Thls
oPtion would not Prohibil clusterlng thr: ellowable development lmm twq thre€ or four quarter-
sections lo occur in close proxiEity, alfhough lhis is not encouraged.
Option B:
Clustering should be pernitted ard calculated on e standard section (tt0 acres) basis. Given the
U10 density, and no minimum lot sizg tbe a[owable 6{ units cuutd be clustered on e relatively
small parcel of land wlthir the section and the rcmaining land prrserved. Thls optiou would not
Prohibit elusterlng the ellowable developrrent fmn twq three or four s€ctiotrs to ocrur in close
proximity, although this is not encounged.
The sugestion to mdify thc Couttcil's clastuing policy is made with tte intent of fi.utherprorcaing agriculnral activity and natural areas in the rural area, by providing more llsibility
to local govemments to plan their corruflinities. The LIIAC analysis pointed ow thot the 4li0
policy did not help preserue open space o farms tlut ilid not qualily for agrianlatal preserues.
By allowing more clastering brye contiguow areas can fu proteaeL
The MCDC has chosen to ptovi,lc *o clustering ahematives for discussion at thc pubtb
meaings. The two akematives will hclp enswe that ptblic cownents addnss bth the
advanlages and dbadvatXages of clusArhg on smallcr or hrger areas.
7: INCONSISTENT COMMIINITIES
Some comnunltles may llnd lt lmposslble to Deet thc ner pollcles lor the general nurt use arca
due to their existing developnent psttem. Ite Couacll should eccept that there sill be lnstsnes
when sn exceptiotr may be n'arrsnted. hctptions should ouly be cunsldercd wheD comEudties
cannot Eeet the policy because ol the exisdng subdlvlslon ol land or lmprovenetrts thereon The
council should dctermhe the coDtetrl of the exoeptton bsscd or how well the communlty hrs:
29
A- Protectfd good agricuttural lard;
B. Inplemented the on-site soage dtsposal performancr standards;
c. Adopted r ooEpreheDsive plsr oDslsteDt with tll Metmpolttsn Devel,opment Gulde
Chapferg cspcclttty sders, trrnsportstlo& rylatlon end prrks.
This yuedure ,ill o4 fu used d a conuwnty cannot mzet the nzw plicies fue to tlu
amann and lnat'ton of aisthg development or permined buiUabb lols, ,tot bcawe a political
agrcerrant caruot be reached lually. It b not iatended as a lnphole o avoid tle requircments
ol thc plicy. A ntcthd of dcaliag with inconsistent oonununities, given the pesent application
of FIU mortgage pideliaes, b especially needed at this time.
30
Toble 6:C.ompartson of Edsttng and Recnnmended Pollcy Opttons
for the Rural Arca
etdag Po[cy Pollc1' ncco6,rDdrtloDs
htscrvrdoD of
A8riculturc
Lml got,rmDcDts dcsigEatc hfif for bog-telm
egriqrlturr urc !o bc msidcrrd part of tbe
"Comitcnial ASrioltural Arca.' Thb srea
sbould bc pfsDDcd ftr a &rlclopocot dcEsity m
grearcr lbaD 1 &rcliag per 40 u€s I.3Dd b
ccnified by l@l gocrnEent as cligible for thc
Mctopolitan Agricultural Pr6cn/€s Program.
Primary pnotccrim arcas arc laods coveEaoted
as agricultural prca€nrc& Sccodary proEctioo
areas atr arcas cedificd but Dot cotrcoantcd-
No cb8trgc; tbe Couocil 6[ouH rccEmirle rhc
agrkxltural prcseIvls lcgftIatid !o dcterminc
bor ft trright bc aDodifcd to bc Eorc cfiedive
iu Feserving a[ typcs of agria tural land.
I-and Uscs Umited direclioo for C-ouncil ad local
Soyemmcnts regardilg laDd us6 berDod
agriculturc, siDge-tarnily re$deDtial aDd a
lioited Dumber of 'urban-geErsted us€s,'
Aariry aDd cryaod m thc potkry fa
@patiblc laDd uscs itr thc rurd grca,
pcrEittitrg morc [criulity. Additirat taod
urca wil be subjod !o sstauisbcd plaDniDg
critcrh aod community pla6 rod rcgulatioos
Lot Sizc No DiDimum h size rccommcDded within
overau deDsiry tiloitatbn of 4/l().
No minimum h sizc r€commcndc{t, h sizc is
!o be &tcrDined by perftrrraDe statrdards for
adcquate oo-sitc scalage dispcal systeDs
ODSit Seffsg.
Dispossl Slrtclls
Couocil standar& fs oo-site sJsErrs arc
cllnentu found h the Wast€flater Treatmetrt
and llardling Polic? Plan. Alt ffimunitics
should adopt staDdar& foc. IDstauatioo. Permitrecoid-ke€pltrg. Correc-tioo of problcms. L.icersing. Persmrcl to adminbter
proglaE
Coomunities peroittiog &ositics grester than
4/40 are to iEplcmcnt additioal sraDdards fon. Inspectioo. Data colhclilo. Ontinancc mpliancc. Wqk rccords
Imreascd perforbaDca $adards. All clemcots of MPCA 7@ rules. All cooDunitks to adopt a[
sf.aDdar& iD Wast€flater Trcatment
atrd Eandliog Polkry Plao, iDcludirg
iDspcc'tbo programE rEgardl€ss of
dci/elopmcnt &o.sity pcrnitt€&. Rcquire ao sltcroatirrE draiofcld be
ritcd at tb€ timc of issuhg a building
pcrmit, occring s(il aDd Frcdation
staodards of thc primary systcDo-. Rcquirc aD sdcquarc *rln6dng
program to dctcct tsiliat oodte
s€sagc dispcal qEtcms. Rcquirc aU comEudtics to ccrti&
tbcy MlE Gt tbesc stasdards Prior
to apprwitrg l@l plar amcDdments
6 apFroral of 8try FIIA Dargage
rrvic|r/s
TrsNitioD Arcss No Epccific r.tpport in MDIF fa ptaoning br
traDsitim art.s outsklc of rbc anrrcot
Mctropoliaao Urbso Scrvicc Arca (MUSA).
CorBd to sdopt pdicica !o pro&ct tbc
rrginal intcrE$ ir cffcbntry clgaoding rhe
MLTSA. Mct cficL.nt vay b to timit
dcrElopocnt to rlry lor dcEnty, altborgh
'8b6t pattiog' Dzy bc utilizrd ftovire
guircliDcs b rc.,gDa*ro of traEsirim arc3s in
l@l cmprchcEtivr plaor"
31
DcDsity ODc uDit per ten acT€s, oo'puted oo tbe bBsig
of !{}a.Ie parcels. No r€quired plan
modiEcat@s wten iDcoosistctrt communitics
sirbmit plan amDdEients, crcF h cas€s
itr.!/ofuiDg spccift DcgatiE iDpacB oo
netopoli&rtr g6tems.
Ooc uDit pcr tco acrc& Tbc Coilrcil sbould
morc dccv mooitq local plaDs to cDsur€ rbcy
a@forD aDd rcqufuc a[lcodo€nb to
iocoosistcnt IGI plaos duc !o thc potential
iEpa., to tbc regboal traospodaaioo a[d waste
sater t stems
Clustcriry DeDsity computcd m tb€ hack of 40€cre
(quaner{uaner seclbo) pffccb (4/40).
Ecludc ooly areas of lakes, r€gimal highw.dli
aDd laod alrsdy dqrclopcd ftr cakulating
slfilabl€ uDits Statc 8od lEgiooal parks aod
cle aDds may be us€d fu( cakrlatitrg alorable
units
No qcep oos or provisioos ffr addressing
codrmunides ]hat nay halr (kelop€d ar
deositix €xceeding CorDcil policies.
32
Edrtlry Policy Folk, RccoEECD&tloE
opthD a DeDsity omputed m tbc bosis of
160-acre (quartcr{c.rioo) parccb (16/160).
Optlou Br Deo{ty coGtputcd m thc basis of
640-acrc (ooc seclbo c squarc milc) parcels
(st@).
CoElruniti.s vith
hconsistlBa Polidcs
EIceptbos should be coosidered ffi
comDunities $at @!q D3€r tbc pdicy
be.ausc of thc €xistitrg subdivbioo of hDd or
iDprgl,€ments $ercm- TDc Courcil sbould
deterEioe tbc cooteot of tbe cf,ccFim bsscd
oo bow ctel the ommunity bas;. Protccted good agriclrltural land;. Implcmcntcd the oodtc saage
dispcal performaDcc staodards; and. Adopted a mmpreheDsiw plan
consi$e with all MetropolitaD
Development Guide cbaptcrq
€specra[y s€nrcrs' transPof tauon,
aviadoo and parks.
l:\litr..tilEdltb\@p?bvF@
CITY OF
cHff{HlssEN
TO:
FROU:
DATE:
su&r:
690 COULTER DRIVE O P,O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900. FAX (612) 937-5739
ITIXMORANDIJI'{
Planning cornmission
PauI Krauss, Planning Director
October 31, 1990
Report from Planning Director
2.
The Site Plan Amendment for IndustriaL lnfornation Controls toconstruct a 42,060 square foot addition to an existingbuilding at 7870 Park Drive tas approved on the consent
agenda.
Prelininary plat to replat a portion of an outlot in
Chanhassen !1a11 Addition known as the Easy Ryder Addition was
approved on the consent agenda.
3 An iten to approve a zoning ordinance anendment to amendSection 2O-4O9 regulations concerning hretlands and access
through i'retlands, fina:l reading rras pulled fron the agenda.Action on this iten lras continued since there hras aninsufficient nunber of Denbers present to have a quorun to
adopt the ordinance change.
Conditional use pernit and site plan amendment for PJrs Bar
and Restaurant located in Seven Forty one Crossing shoppingcenter. 'The city council approved the application and
associated application for a liquor license. A number of the
people who spoke at the Planning Conmission on this iteur werepresent during discussion of this item, however, theyprinarily focused on an item concerning the vacation of astreet right-of-rray located west of the shopping center andthere was relatively l j.ttle couuent upon the shopping centerproperty.
The city Council was scheduled to review the prelininary platfor lake Riley Hi11s t,f, plat 76 single fanily lots for JohnKlingelhutz. This iten was pulled at the reguest of the
At the city Council neetinq of october 22, 1990, the followingitens were acted upon:
1
5
As the Planning Commission nay recall, I have inforned you in
the past that the l,[etropolitan Council is considering changesto their rural area policies. As I noted at a previous
rneetinq, the 2! acre mininum lot size reconmendation that
Metro Council previously reconnended is no longer in place
irhich would appear to give the city flexibility to reassessour current ordinance. Density requirements are sti11 being
required by the l,Ietro Ccuncil in these areas, however, the wayin which they rrill be cralculated is proposed for changes. Inaddition, and of special interest to the City of Chanhassen,policies changes are being proposed for transition areas.Transition areas such as touLd occur in all remaining
undeveloped areas in the city that would ultinately be
expected to undergo organization. It is due to overly
regimented l,[etro Council policies that Hlry. 5 is being
inproved only to Co. Rd. 17 and not to H!,ry. 41. It wasoriginally their positj,on that since the highway went outsideof then an existing Ii{UsA line, that there should be no roadway
irnprovenents in this area. Although they have since changedtheir position on thj.s Eatter, it is evident that uetroCouncil policies vis-a-vis transition areas are of najor
irnportance to our conurunity. I am enclosing a copy of thedraft report by Uetro Council staff for you to review. I willbe attending a public hearing on the proposed changes on
Thursday, Novenber 8th at 2:00 p.u. at the lIetro council . Any
comments you wish me to carry forsard should be given to ne atthe Planning Connission neeting.
7
Planning Commission
October 31, l-99O
Page 2
applicant who is in the process of revising prelirninary plansto acconmodate the recornnendations of staff and the PlanningConmission. fn addition, the applicant has had an opportunityto discuss the ultiroate improvenent of Lynan/ Lake Riley
Boulevard with Carver County. The engineer is atternpting toincorporate roadlray nodifications stemming frorn this neetinginto the prelininary plat so that when it is ultirnatelypresented to the City Council it sitt accurately reflectultinate roadway demands.
6. Selection of candidates to fill open positions on the PlanninqCommission. As you n,ey be aware, there are two positions
which will become open on January 1st. These are thepositions occupied by Annette Ellson and Jin wildermuth.
Commissioner El.lson has infonned ne that due to the recentbirth of her second child, she will be unable to serve another' on the Planning Conm.ission. I have not yet spoken to
Cornmissioner wildernuth about his intentions. In keeping withthe usual procedure, notice was published regarding theavailability of positions available on the Planning Conmi.ssion
and eopies of subnitted applications are attached. ft would
be my recommendation that the Planning Cornrnission direct staffto arrange interviews of candidates at the next meeting. You
nay wish to detennine whether or not you rrould short list theavailable nunber of candidates.
I
I
DAII
APPLTCT tI ou ?OR
ltBrt?tPOS!ttot DlStErD
fU:: ..-J .)
1 IIT'BDAI8 (OPIIOITL'
lDDrlss I CA.C.har^huss SS3r
rcxr peorr z+-74 -q 4 losrtlss tEorE
tor LOIC arvl loo ttgtD tI eSlttlsstr
lIGEts? ttgtL O! tDDelrror l?rlt ltDr t&u8 DtCrttS, tl lrr
rl \-
^,C V vt1 ie ,--,, W .lo.>
II
connlf,r rtrplol;Em: -!cly!_?gsl?tor, Drpr,orrn, lrD Dtrar DtScESStOr o!Dsrrls. rr lt|pLottrEtr t6 tlErlrvsii rc?iur, DISCOS8 ttwtoEs rxpr,ot_ltEII TS SELL'
S (
^t e€+
e rr e
..v-<-. s--L.,
I3Y^
lertvttrss AID tPPtLtrttors:tEcocluttous BEcrtvED, IS lII
ht
Vu-m
(I UDE ILIC'M
\
d rL
f,
-.,', \c( -
)-.
ICES IID EOIOTS OE
4o,^
J
lErsors ?oR s EEf,IUC tHts DOStttoI lID SpsctE Oot&l?tclttorSs
d
o
(-o\4 (-o
tI ltLtIG rsts lPpLrc,lrtor, t otDtratllD !!r! r_ggrolttllaf, ot E tria,!M91, lrtEnlst, rrD ?rsrictpatror rrLi rt rrvoiv6r-lro'r-et re:_rrRlD ro rrr? aucs l ootltrrrrarr tt r8i-rytrr r rtr Eiorri:i ;d ffi-laovr cotqlssror.
,,1
RECEIVED
ocT 31 1990
CITY Ur uhAt\fiASSEN :s:i a.'-
ERTXBASSEN GOHHISSTOX
-,/ Ltle.r>r_ol@p-.
\n
t-
-t
-l
DTIE lo- z7-7u
IPPLICATI ox F(IR eRiltHASSEI ooHilrssIoN
Eosrrtor ,""r"", c i.. ,.,C IL?EATT?!
BrltrDrrl (op"rour., 5 &5-/t
C l^1
rAHE:,rl Jr.e.^l {lso ^t
IDDRESS Yt'lo o sl L"Ju-Co,-i
q3q-'f g1?DOSIIESS PBOIB
lor torc rrva roo LtylD tr carrElsslr I (,.ul/r\C^l I V4
llcElst &EVBL O! lDucrttor t??lrt!D
- *f{A
P&EE Dtcttla, t! lrt
t.rt5
o-
J 6.!'\c^;Sih (s
S l,:, S
,
I
3 ys #Lr ll1),y AY
coBnEf,t lHpr,or Ef,r: -(crw_posr"ror, lllpl.otBB, lrD Btr!! Dtacsssrol otDorrgs. r! rilpLoruExr rE rELluvrii iiiirr, Dtscoss prtrrous rrrpLor_rErl rs rELLI
o^,,l-",f^"r{fc (a
IAtv ,{
lCllvIrIES IXD ApFtLIAtfOxSr (I
IECOGf,I'IOrS SECEIVED, Ir ATI)
RzL IVE OIIICBS IID,'Jkr; (a'.-[
corsl*-{itkxJ Cl a,t d
I a.,re.i
on
ore
13
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I
Gi,ls
V*
!
U
<-.)()L4d* I &/v*'\h ((),-"rl*sro,
O*L(nf i.A'r", \,$', u^t
IETSOUS POR SEETITC THIS POSI'IOT IID APECIr!,OOrLtltC,MtOrS: -.L /"./o,n
tQ',/.brirn,-'{.re../4Set d-o )f i*X
/{
".(\.4 ac
e Co,t-,cr _7 e l(*rq .I a^^-e^-,t oul JE 'leJ.t
llQ- o bJou"-i"rt
^.{^-declsia^z
II IILIIG IHIS IPPLICITIOtr, t EIDIRS'trD tBt?'tSS i t,t h^4 5
lf,Enct., rxtEBEst, IID panttclpAllol IILL B!ntrt ol E t rllt,rrvoEglD, IID I ltl ?I t-?IRED tO l{rrE soca I ooHrrtllEfr tt tBE wErt t til lPPoIIrlD ?o ?ErlaovE cottltlssror.
AI IE:
RECEIVEE
ocT 3 0 1990
CITY r.lr unnrrflal:EN
(
../ 4
-
toltt P80f,8
1", -
?
+
DATE (-/
I
IPPL I CAT rox Frf,R gEAHHAS SEN OOHllI sslo
POSIITOT DESTRED
..--....-.....2 ^/iA/ALIEBUA'E
IAl{Es .\/BIT'EDItt (OP?IOTIt'2
IDDBESS c
aou! pgorE 7Z q -b 7 c7
lor Eor6 ErvE rou EtvrD rr cBrrglsssr i-r
ItGElSl &wtL O! tDocr?lor l?t IITID, P&Es D lcttt8, t! lrt?s B4
6ob
erlnRtE? ElipserHEE?: -lciiE^igqi"ror, trrpr,orEr, lrD BBt!! Dtacgsslor otDgrrrs. r? gt|pLorr{Em rs ariiiiyrii eiiirr, Drscoss prwross axpLor-IIEf,I IS TELLI
J
AfD APPILIAI!OTSs (ITCLUDE TLEC'rvt otIECOGBITTONS EECEIVED, IE rfl,
(,1
OR
Pao I
lcalvITI I
')
IEASOUS lOR SEEXITG
'HIS POSI,IOT IITD AP Irf, oor&Iltcltrors!
J
0
tI tILtrc tllls lPPLtctttot,ItsERci. tftERESt, tro preti
DAnED ?o lrAxr 80cB I GOllllI'laov! coErISSIOr.
t
CIP
ItEt
EES'ITD ?Erl I
ATIOT TILL B! ITYOLVED
otE lln!,
a IID t IH PA B.t tt ?Bl wErt I all'lP POIITAD !0 "tt
t Al0
REEEruEF
ocT 2 91990
CITY OT CHANHASSEN
I
loslrass PEoIl
I
:t
t DATE I -an -?0
POSIttOf, DESINED P
lDDBEss 6{?o
?EEUAtE ()
trrtEDttt (oPttorr&,
E I'J gxce./srlre /t/)N -s-sj t/
loxlz prorr fl7q-q H{!ostIEss Ou hsJ;.a\t
E
l tor &orc Erv! toD &tvtD tt cetrElsstr 3+VA J c-c^/?r?q4
ttGElS? &waL ol rDucr?tor l?taltlD, ILOA DICrlt8 , l? lrt
6rr*1..Arc /<Hu-u .t<-
t/v
7 :t€4
eERRrr:? E!!P!CrtfEs?: -lci1E^lggilrr0r, tttpLotE!, ltrD BBt!! DISCESSTOT orDEtrEs. r? rtrpLorrEtrr 18 rrLArrirsi iiiiur, Drscoss prwroos rrp&or-tlErl ls IELL,
Co c-l
e,r*
tu|4r
IETIVITTES AXD APPILIATIOTS:
IECOGNTTIOIS SECEIVED, IA ATT'
(ircLoDE rLlerrvl o?ltcts lrD Eorors oB
/11/t
tErsors poR sEEXrf,C tHtS poslrlof ltD Sprcllt oor&Melttolss
U
,
II ITLITG ?IIIS IPPLICmTOI t oxDlRs?ltD tBtt I Gor{rrttrtrr o!E ttnt,alIERGr, lx?Enlsr AID PTTTIC IPAIIOI TILL BI ITVOL9ID ITD I Itl DI!-?IRED to t(Axr aocB t @t{lll lnBrr It ?El tutr? t POtItlD to ?BSlaovt corlBlsstol.
IGI Atuta:
RECE'YEB
ocT 3 0 1990
C,fy OF CHAfvtASSEN
I
apPLrcrrrox lgB CErlIHAssEtl oorttlrssroN
TAI{E:/l-/n-\*>
-ir4.
a
I
-t Dosr?rof, DE'IRED Pl anning
fltlE: ['a l ter Ellsworth Thompson
II.?EBXT'B
BII?ADIIB
public Safety
7-29-43(oPuourL,
IDDBESS 8002 Erie Avenue
EOrr PEOf,B 934-6343
BOSTTESS ,ror, *u"'
-t
for totc ErvE toE LMD tf cElrErssBf,Dec. 19 89
lrcEEst r,BytL ot BDlrct?ror attarrED, pLus DEGatts, t! lrt z.years co1l.
D a !, l'1an aqer at Broo kdale Square llovies for we have 8
CORNEf,I ETPLOTHEUI: .IGIYE POSr,IOf,, IIIPLOIEE, IID BNIE! DTSCUSSIOT OEDIrtrEs. rE Et,lpLorHEf,r rs aELArrviii iiiirr, rrtscuss prrivrorrs rrlPLor_llErt ts tfELL,
theatlers in one compl ex.
Also partine sales for the star Tribune Newsoaoer of The Twin cities for six years
(tf,CLI'DE ELECIIVE OAFICES T.ID EOIOBS ORI have served on the Develo penent Comni ss ion
in Eden Prairie up until it disbanded. Also a nember of pax Christi catholic conm-
unity.
TETSOf,S POR SEEXIXG IHIS POSITIOT AfD SPECIII OSTLIFIeIIIOIS:'I I m verv
interested in the City of C.hanhdssen and its future growth ._/
-/
lI ?tt,Ixc rBts lppLlcAtrol, t UIDERSIIXD ?Btr I OOHHT?I{rI! ot, ;t ?tHt,lrERGr, lftEnEst, AxD PAnrrctplrrof, rrLL B! rtryor.vED, eio-r-ix prg-PrnED rO HAKE SOCB l cot0rr?nErr tr ?BE EyErr r er epioiirgo io rrslaovE CoHrrsstor.
<-.
s GXATO
DAIE r n-1?-on
IPPLICAIIOll PC|R CHAI|HASSEI coltlrlSSrOll
ICIIVITIES ArD AEEIT.IATIO S:IECOGUIrroxs RECEMD, IF afrl
I DTIE 0d"117 o5
IPPLICA?IOf,POn cf,ArlH ASSEN OOI$Irssrorl
POSITIOU DES IBED anni r ILIEBf,T'E
BITIEDT'E (OPIIOTTL'
IDDBESS
8O}tE PEOIE ->>t BOSITESS PEOTT l.,(}'.-!.-
lor LorG rry! ro, LryrD rr carr'r8slr 2
lrGElSr IEVIL Ot tDoclttor l?tlrtrD, ,tus Dtcrtls, t? lttTcl^)a t)-B-l'17
eURREll? lttpLorHBrr! lclyE postrrotr, tnpEorlB, lrD BBr!! DtBCUsStOT OEDrrtrEs. r! rrrpLorHEf,r rs rgLrrrvrii iiiirr, Dtscsss paEcroos rtrpr.or-tlETI TS TELL'
(A (trx-6\<. "{e"r ?h-i Z
a
ff 6\^z
e-r "Prx"!r.gL ntt /\(.rh{{
ISIIVI?IES TTD IPPITIATIOTS:
SECOGf,rrloxs SEcEryED, IB rwl (IrcLuDE lLtcrtyl otlICES lrD EOrOls on
IETSOUS POn SEErIf,c IHIS pOSttIOr lfD SpBCrtL OOALTIICI?IOIEsJ Lo,x-
nt"
z./.A< ;Zrn*
v4<l,-z--
lI ?ILIIG tHIS tPPLlClttOtr, t orDtrstlrD lErl I corl|trtlart o! E 'tt|!,^!!!Rcr. r[tERlsl' lrD PAatrctpartor rtLL B! rrvocytD, iio-r-ix pes-?IBED ?o rrxE suc8 l oorrrrHErr rr rEr wrrr r elr epioiiiro io rrrlaovE corfirsstol.
IGXATOIE
Itt{E s
I
I
a
:
t
I DAIE lo 'LS.qh
IL?EEfAIEPOSI?IOU DESIEED
rll{E:M;,el 14 a BI8?EDT?E (OPttOUTL'L'7's-a
I.DDRESS ,5J 't
lorE EEof,E /17 4-7 32.losrllss PEoIE 137-83 2
lor Lorc Eryl lou. EtytD tt catrElsstt I r)
!tc8t8? LBgtL Ot lDocl?toE lrrlltlD,D&Us DtcrBtE, l? lrt
AL
GTA tt:
-..r!-
t
,
AO t/
?
a-
1e (/r'
I
lis
crrRRE[r lnpLor[Ef,r: lclyl posrrtor, tHpLOrEE, lrD BBt!! Dlscrrsstof oEDr,rrEs. rp lr{pLorrEx? rs aELArrvrr.i itclur, Dtscoss prlcrous EtpLor_ItErt ts nELL)
rA,;6r""Q k.
TC?IVI?IES ADD APFILTATTOXS:
TECOGUIIIONS BECEIVED, IA rfl)
)C I-s.S a2 7,?
(ITCLDDE ETBCTI vt ollIcES IID BOIOTS OE
€"h +L,hr J
rErsof,s FoR sEEXrDc tHrs posrrror rxD Sprctrf, oorLtrrc,rttorss Det,. -+
L L
a-UJ (
lI ttLlIG tflts lPPLrcl?Ior, t gxDERsttrD lEr? r GOrtTITt|lIt o! E ttlt!,!!!!9rl rurEnlsr, rrD prarrcrprrror rrLL !E rrvoiv6-,-lr6-r-ix err-DIRED ro xArE soca r eoHllrrrEfr t! ?E! wzrr i en'rpiorrrzi io :arlaov8 Colrtsstor.
# r,llorala, r] . |,*e $ qrt ,ni.l*4.
I
I'PPLTCA?rox gl8 CBA!|HASSEII CotrrrssroN
I
I
I
DAIE to - zq.10
IPPLI CA?IOlr ?oR CNAllH ASSEI COH!{rsslotl
post?rou DESTBED pcaat^l
AR €
t^JG cbk\^1ts>t lttE8f,AtE
lDDBEss aruo tr) I Lv1vi UtLw Cov L (t+4,-s€:, 5 3/'7
8OI{E PEOUE (L 7. LL iz loslllss PBOrE (L-)-r93 :lltlor l,orc Ervt loo &tyaD tr carrElsslr A v 5/y
ltc8tst Lgrgr ol EDOCltToT lrtllrrD, ?&oa Dlcraas, t! lrr
/A
TEcsraa .1/T 3 o^)
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RESU}TE
lttRx o. aENN
PRESIDENT, }.!.ARCI'S DEVEIOPIMNT CORPORATION
10001 Wayzata Boulevard, Suite 100
t{innetonka, l{innesotaPrincipal Shareholder
CI'RRENT POSITION:
19 8 4 -Present
PREVIOI'8 POSIITION:
1984
PRIVIOI's PC'8IIIO !
1981-1984
UAJOR RESPONSIBTLITIES :
2
@IOB RESPONSIBILITIES :
1.To create development opportunities.
Development of coEmercial properties for own portfolio.
A. Retail centersB. of f icell,lanufacturingc. office/warehouseD. office
coumercial build-to-suits for client conpanies.
Provide full services developnent organization acguisition,
government approvals, financing, develoPment, leasing,
ranageDent, etc.
I{AJOR ACCOMPLI SHMENTS INCLLTDE:
completed developnent of a large nuEber of conuercial projects
and have retained a significant interest in the proiects and
their cash flow. Have developed (new construction or rehab)
over 75O,OOO sq. ft. of conrnercial Property over this tine
period.
3
4
PRESIDE}TT, TTRST CORPORATE REALTY SERVICES, INC.
Minneapolis, uinnesota
(a Division of First corporate Services)* This uas a one year conmittDent
1. Investnent acguisltions.2. Developnent of conmercial and residential projects for
companyls portfolio and various investment grouPs and/or
portfol ios .3. Placenent of interin construction financing and pemanent
financing for development projects.
4. Packaging of syndications for conmercial real estate ventures.
GENERAL NANAGER, OXFORD PROPERTIES, INC.
Minneapolis, llinnesota
oxford Properties is a canadian based developDent
conpany originally out of Ednonton.
ACCOI'NTABLE FOR:
st. Paul Toirn square fron atart to finish.
llinneapo).is city center - a 3 llillion Square Foot l,lixed Use
Developnent project comprised of five segments:- I. s2-story offlce tower2. llajor departnent store3. Approxinately 100 shops and restaurants4. 600+ rooE hotel5. 7oo+ car parking garage
l,lAJoR RESPoNSTBILITIES :
Developnent, completion, opening start-up and operation ofcity Center facility.
Enployees (3oo+ in managenent/operations)
Leasingt/Iease administration
Tenant,/conmunity relationsFinancial reporting,/budgeting ($35 t{i1lion budget)
Revenue/receivables
Operations (services and physical ptant)
Special proj ects as needed
UAJOR ACCOUPLISHI{ENTS INCLUqE:
1. Developed a top notch organization uhich is nade up of top
notch people nith high rnorale and pride.
2. Brought project in on plan and on tine.
3. Achilved occupancy levels far above plan (Eaxinized revenues).
4. Achieved top sales per square foot of all regionat nal'Is in
the netropolitan area (naxinized revenues-retail ) .
5. Packaged iale of tax benefits to syndicator, allowing renoval
of equity fron the proj ect and assisted syndications in
Darketing product.5. Took the lead in successful.ly exPanding dosntovn hours to
conpete with other regional ualls.7. Achieved numerous national and international awards for
proJ ect efforts.
pRrvrolrS PoSMroNs DIRECTOR OF DOWNTOWN OPERATTOI{S/DEVETOPi{ENT
1972-L98L st. Paul, Hinnesota
a@qNEAE[& FoR:
Cityrs downtown operations, including developnent and operation
of:1. City-owned parking system2. Slsyway systeD3. Tortn square Dall and Park
1
2
3
4
5
5
7I
Developnent of nunerous city identified devetopment needs in the
downtown area and on connercial arteries. Functions include landacquisition, project financing, project design and project
managenent.
UAJOR RESPONSIBTLTTIES :
Developnent project leader for Tot n square, a joint ventureproject owned by the City and oxford.
Enployees involved in operation of city parking facilities,
sklrrray systeD, Tolrn Square mall and park.Attracting developers and facilitating cityrs developmentpriorities and needs.
Land acquisition, project design, proj ect management.
Provide financing tooJ.s public/private to enhance proj ectsfeasibility.
Downtown pronotion and marketing.
Maxiuize revenues for city owned operations to provide inpetusfor future devel opnent efforts.
UAJOR ACCOUPLISH}.TENTS :
conpleted nunerous developnent projects in which city had arole, including Minnesota l[utual, 3M expansion, East and west
seventh Street revitalization, Science Museun, and numerousparking ranps and skln ays.
Developnent and operati.on of joint venture Town Squareproject. (Overall proj€,ct nanager of joint venture effort.)
Developed promotions arrd narketing progran for downtolrn St.
Paul .
Developed parking system profitability owned by City toservice shoppers, business and fringe parking needs.
PREVIOUS POSIIIONS:
*While rrith city of st. Paul , I also held positions as:
-Director of Adninistration
-Proj ect uanager-City Planner
*Prior to joining st. Pau1, I held several staff and facultypositions at the University of Minnesota.
*I have an extensive background, going back to junior high school,
developnent and nanaging comnercial real estate (rental andoffice) in conjunction with fanily orrned operations.
1
2
3
4
5
5
7
1
2
3
4
EDUCATION:
Graduated Hopkins High School8.A., University of lIinnesota - Uagna Cun LaudeTriple }laj or - Psycholog'y, sociologry, social work
craduate l{ork: University of }linnesota - Psychology
College of St. Thomas Uanagement SchooL-Business
Dlanagement
Hubert H. Hunphrey Institute (University ofuinnesota) Pubic Administration
q:!EE8 pArr:
42 Years of Age Address :
Married - trro children
Excellent health
Extensive academic credentials
Extensive Continuing Education
Licensed Broker
7150 willow view cove
Chanhassen, Irlinnesota 5531,7
(6L21 949-2272
in ny fields of endeavor
l,lEltBERsEIPs INCLITDE oR I.AVE E!|CUDED:
Downtown Council HeEbership Chair, uarketing cornrnittee, Retail
Conmittee, and Board
Board of Directors and Executive Conmittee of Kaiser RoII
FoundationBuilding orrners and lIanagers Association (BouA)
International Council of Shopping centers (ICSC)
Lafayette club
ltinnesota Gophers Touchdown CIub
Hopkins/Hinnetonka Rotary club
Chairman, Excelsior Planning Coumission
Twin West Chanber of CoEmerce
Executive Board - Boy scouts of America
Chairnan, Challenger District - Boy scouts of America
Board uember, Tonka United Soccer Association
University of Minnesota Aluoni Association
Board !!enber, Evans scholars A1umi Association
Board l,lember, Agrotec corporation
Board tltenber, futari CorPoration
(References, including nany top business leaders in the
netropolitan area, will g1ad1y be furnished upon request)
Thomas J. Camphell
Roger N. Knutson
Tht'rmas M. Sctn
Garl C. Fuchs
James R rD0alsron
Ellion B Knerrh
Gregory D. [-wis
Dennis l. Unger
CAMPBELL, KNUTSON,& FUCHS, P.A.
Attorrrys at Law
October 31, 1990
(6t21 456.9539
Fax (6121 456-9542
You asked rne if less than a quonrn of nenbers rrho werepresent at a neeting can subsequentLy approve the ninutes of thatmeeting. Robertts Rule of Order does not require a nenber to have
been present at a neeting to vote on the approval of the ninutesof that neeting. If approval of minutes is voted upon, a sinplenajority of the rBembers present can approve the ninutes.Robertrs, however, does nol:- require a vote on approval of
minutes :
1. R€adliDg aDd lpproval ot ulnutes. The chair says, rrThe
secretary rrrill read the minutes. rr In all but the smallestDeetings, the uinutes are read by the secretary standing.
The chair then asks, 'rAre there any corrections to the
minutes?rr and pauses. (Corrections, irhen proposed, areusually handled by general consent--p.44). Then thepresiding officer says, xIf there are no corrections [or rrno
further correctionsrrl, the ninutes stand [or raretr] approved
[or rrapproved as readr rr or rrapproved as correctedrr ] . rr If for
any reason there are ninutes of other Eeetings in additionto the last meeting that have not been read previously, theyare taken in the order of date.
ours ,
BELL,ON SCOTT
rU
Knutson
RNK: srn FIECEIVED
Noy 0 1 't990
P.A&
Yankee Square Office III . Suite 202 . 3460 \Uashington Drire . Eagan, MNcq{ffcHANHASSEx
l,lr. Paul Krauss
chanhassen city HaIl
590 Coulter Drive, Box 147
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
RE: Approval of Planninq Connission l.{inutes
Dear Paul :