CC Minutes 10-12-20 - DiscussionChanhassen City Council – October 12, 2020
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Kate Aanenson: Planning Commission yep.
Mayor Ryan: So Councilman Campion if you want to, since you had pulled it off if you want to
make that motion.
Councilman Campion: Yeah so I move that the item be remanded to the Planning Commission
for additional discussion and recommendation.
Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: So moved. Seconded.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Councilwoman.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the code amendment
requiring zoning permits be remanded to the Planning Commission for additional
discussion and recommendation. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously
with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 4-0. Thank you.
CONSENT AGENDA: 7. APPROVE DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT FOR GRADING
PERMIT FOR THE BLUFFS AT LAKE LUCY.
Mayor Ryan: Next up is for you Ms. Aanenson as well and it’s a grading permit for The Bluffs
at Lake Lucy.
Kate Aanenson: You have a question for me? Do you want me to just explain what they’re
doing?
Mayor Ryan: No thank you, whoever just pulled up the map. I appreciate it. Two questions.
I’ll get to the grading piece but a quick comment about the development contract. On, oh I have
it my notes here, it’s on I think it’s on page 8. It talks about the construction hours and you
know the 7:00 to 6:00 Monday through Friday and then additionally on Saturday and I would
like to you know of the lower portion of the bluffs, I think Saturday work is acceptable and
understandable. I think with that small area on top of, where you’re building right into, right
next to residential to have construction traffic. That is a narrow street. There is nowhere to go
and to have that on a Saturday I think is going to be extremely frustrating to residents so I don’t
know if there’s any flexibility in.
Kate Aanenson: They wanted the cul-de-sacs but they don’t want any noise on Saturdays is that
what you’re saying no noise on Saturday?
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Mayor Ryan: No so I’m saying that the cul-de-sac to the south, you know the lower one.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Ryan: You know if construction was happening on a Saturday down there I think is
understandable but to have construction traffic and building going on Monday through Saturday
in that small space seems excessive to me.
Kate Aanenson: I’ll let Charlie, that’s our general practice. Yeah.
Charlie Howley: Madam Mayor, council I would say two questions. One I guess I would ask
the City Attorney if we have city code allowed construction hours can we, with a development
contract just change that? I presume the answer is yes.
Roger Knutson: Your presumption is correct.
Charlie Howley: Okay, alright. So you guys could direct us to change that in the contract. Now
the way contractors are going to build stuff it would be very difficult for them to kind of only
work in one area and not in others so it’s either don’t work on Saturday or work on Saturday. I
really think from a constructability aspect I mean we could ask for it but they would probably
end up not working anyways.
Mayor Ryan: I mean those are two pretty different sites. I mean in terms of access. I mean one
is coming off of Galpin where there is, other than one resident right there, there isn’t anyone
around just like the rest of the whole project. When you come off Lake Lucy and you drive
through that neighborhood it’s, I mean there’s nowhere, there’s just not a lot of space up there.
It’s really tight and I think it would be extremely disruptive on a Saturday and I know that there’s
other developments but most of those developments are more in open space. This is a really
tight space and I just, I think offering them the courtesy to not have round the clock construction
on a Saturday is warranted. I don’t know how the rest of council feels or Ms. Aanenson if you
have any.
Kate Aanenson: Well I would say I’d give them the choice on the bottom half. My only point is
that I’d say sometimes when you have an open area because that’s the area they want to work
first in is my understanding to get open so.
Mayor Ryan: Is which one?
Kate Aanenson: The top piece so yeah.
Charlie Howley: The preconstruction meeting is tomorrow I believe where all those types of
details get talked about.
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Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Charlie Howley: We as a staff really we’ve got some maybe some off the cuff ideas of how
they’re approaching it but who’s to say that they need to balance dirt and they have to go from
one area to the other like continually.
Mayor Ryan: Right.
Charlie Howley: So that’s why I say if the council chooses not to do it all, maybe give them the
option on the south area but I doubt they’d be able to do much in one area that they wouldn’t be
working on in both areas. Again we’ll know a lot more tomorrow that’s for sure.
Mayor Ryan: Right. Right. Did Gonyea buy the whole thing?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yep, yeah. So one of the things that they had talked about is moving
stuff back and forth and we told them they’d have to come back out and around because we
didn’t want them, that was the residents were adamant about that. That was one that they talked
about when they were going to start the tree clearing. We said no. You can’t work between the
two. You have to go out and around but to Charlie’s point if they’re doing some balancing up on
the top half they’re know more of the details on that but yeah.
Mayor Ryan: Well any thoughts on Saturday construction?
Kate Aanenson: If I can just add one other thing. I know they were trying to get that open. It
just extends the timeline is the other thing so just to think about. So you’re extending that, you
know what I mean? So those days you can’t work you push it further so it’s a longer project, if
that makes sense. I mean I understand the Saturday thing completely I mean that’s a quiet time.
Mayor Ryan: And I get inside. I mean once they make it inside and they’re going the structure
on the inside. I just you know it was painful, very painful for the residents on the south side for
the construction. The time. You know they tend to work a little bit longer. A little bit later. It
is literally in these people’s back yard. You know I just was hoping for some consideration for
Monday through Friday to have a lot of work going on you know however many houses, and
house up top is a lot and then to have it continued on a Saturday so obviously that’s my ask.
Council can mill it over a little.
Councilman Campion: What is the schedule? When is the estimated completion? With working
Saturdays.
Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure but I’d just saying it would extend it for sure if you lose a day.
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Charlie Howley: Yeah I’m not sure, we’re going to learn that tomorrow at the pre-con. But
without question they were planning on working 6 days and only can work 5. Whatever they
wanted to get done this fall they’re going to be delayed.
Councilman Campion: Right it’s another 20 percent.
Charlie Howley: A trade off might be extending the work hours on Monday through Friday.
Kate Aanenson: That’s what I was going to say or go later on Saturdays or extend the hours. I
mean it’s dark out by, or start later on Saturdays or something.
Councilman McDonald: Is there also a time limit on this? I mean in the contract it talks about
November 15th for the wear course on public streets. Is that part of what they’re trying to get
done?
Charlie Howley: Again we’ll learn tomorrow what they’re trying to get done by this fall. It’s
my understanding that this is just to get going on tree clearing and grading and you know they’re
a temporary mat is what the project engineer is telling me. We’re just trying to get some
temporary roads built for the winter time. Nothing kind of in the permanent condition.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah November 15th if I may, I believe is you have to have, if you’re going to
put asphalt down that’s typically our standard time you have to have it down. Typically that’s
our standard time. You have to have it down. Typically that’s when the asphalt plants usually
close somewhere around there so.
Charlie Howley: Yeah that’s a good guiding deadline because even if the plants were still open
the temperatures just don’t cooperate with compaction on asphalt so even if a plant was open
later than that we wouldn’t allow that but you know sometimes the plants close on Halloween
too so.
Mayor Ryan: And I guess I mean and I understand that. I’m not even talking about putting in
roads or trees clearing. People have blowers and chainsaws going at all hours of the day and
night every day of the week. I get that. I’m talking not even just the noise issue but when you
have I mean we all know what’s going on right now just with all the hail damage in the city and
you have trucks and tractors and cars and everything and there’s just up on that top part there’s
just, there’s nowhere to go up there and now all of a sudden not only 5 days a week when maybe
you’re working but on the weekend you have random people walking around when you’re home
with your family and I just feel like that on a Saturday is extremely intrusive so, and but that’s
just my opinion so. Noodle on it. We’ll go to the grading. I can’t think of another way. Think
about it. It’s obviously part of the entire motion. Is the development contract and the grading so
you can come back to that. You know give it some thought. I just before coming in I got an
email about the grading. I was just focused really in pulling it off was about the development
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contract but this has to do with the lower portion. A resident along I think that’s Topaz.
Anyway his question was that they’re marked for trees already. I know you walked the property.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Jill did yes.
Mayor Ryan: And, or Jill did. And that he was very surprised at how far into the bluff area that
they’re cutting and tree removal is going to take place and so the question is, and I answered him
and explained that you know real quickly that that’s just the cut of the road and there’s reasons
for it but, and that there’s going to be reforestation and all of that so I mean I understand but is
there anyway to move that cut back at all or is that what the engineers have decided and then
that’s what it has to be?
Charlie Howley: Madam Mayor can I maybe have you tell me is it in this area right there?
Mayor Ryan: Yes, yes. Yes I think it’s.
Charlie Howley: Okay because these are houses are going in.
Mayor Ryan: Correct it’s where no home are and it’s where that cut is and it’s into the bluff.
Charlie Howley: So here’s why it’s shown the way it is per my engineering opinion. Not having
talked to their engineer about why things are laid out. Right here is about a 28 foot cut. 28 feet
down so how do you, there’s a couple ways which you could tie into existing conditions with a
28 foot cut. One would be build a 30 foot retaining wall right here and not go up that slope. The
economics probably just do not work nor would we, you know 30 foot retaining wall and a little
residential street so what they did is they went on a 2 to 1 cut slope which is even more
aggressive than normal cut slopes which are 3 to 1 or 4 to 1, so this is even tighter than a normal
cut slope. 2 to 1 and then they build a wall. I think this wall is like 8 feet tall maybe at it’s
highest point right up there. So it was the developers and their engineers kind of most cost
effective way of cutting that road in as opposed to building again a 30 foot tall retaining wall
right there so is the question is there another way to do it? The answer is yes. But they have no
proposed to do it that way for I presume economic reasons.
Kate Aanenson: Let me back up on that. We spent a lot of time on that with the preliminary
plat. I know the City Forester did too to get the road design on that. To get the capacity for that
road to come through and not to have the slope too close to the road so there was a lot of
different iterations under preliminary plat. I can’t comment to the tree staking because I wasn’t
out there. I know Jill did recommend and I talked to the City Engineer about it too, between the
two cul-de-sacs there’s some significant trees that we’re going to alter some of that trail to save
of those large oaks that are in that area so we can kind of more field work that when she walked
it with the developer. We’re going to work on that to just alter that a little bit to save more trees.
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Mayor Ryan: Yeah and I think the, and I understand all this. I just wanted to ask publicly you
know this was a concern of mine when we first talked about because you know this is part of the
Big Woods that is special in this area and part of their back yards and so the concern is that you
know even with the tight grade or the 2 to 1 grade that they’re proposing you know for their
benefit is now there is just significant tree loss in that area and it goes right up to the property
line and it’s just a disappointing feature so I just didn’t know if there was anything that could be
altered at this point knowing that the likely answer was no but just wanted to bring it forward
because it’s just, it’s a challenge and disappointing so, but thank you for the clarification and the
explanation. Especially with the way that it’s cut will help me articulate it when I speak to them.
So back to the.
Councilman McDonald: Development contract.
Kate Aanenson: Work hours.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you. Any further thoughts.
Councilman McDonald: We can table it because it sounds like you all would like to talk to.
Kate Aanenson: If you table it you’re pretty much knocking them out for 2 weeks. They’re
pretty much, they can’t move forward with the project. The County’s been holding them up for
5 weeks to get it recorded so we broke the grading out separate from the plat so.
Mayor Ryan: So no.
Kate Aanenson: But I mean it’s kind of punitive. I think they’ll take the, you know if you
restrict and then they could come back ask later for different hours if things are going well that’s
their prerogative too. I’m guessing the City Attorney said they could come back and amend that
so you know if you wanted to restrict it now and then they could work through that and come
back and ask if it’s working well with the neighbors or maybe some Saturday hours if it’s going
well.
Councilwoman Coleman: I like the option of restricting it right now and seeing, but leaving the
option if they want to do Saturdays on the lower end.
Mayor Ryan: Thoughts council.
Councilman Campion: That sounds reasonable. I mean removing it altogether, if I was living
next to it I don’t know which one I’d rather have. You know a project that last an extra 2 weeks
or you know one that consumes a couple Saturdays.
Mayor Ryan: I think it will be more than a couple Saturdays.
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Councilman Campion: Well then it would be more than a couple weeks. I mean there’s some
trade off there right so. So whatever you’re saving in your Saturdays it’s going to last so many
more weeks right and the other thing is if you consider COVID and potential more staying at
home, you know you’re equally as likely potentially to be impacted during the week as you are
on the weekends.
Mayor Ryan: Fair enough.
Kate Aanenson: So having said that we’ll have a construction meeting tomorrow so we’ll know
more so whatever you give them they can always come back but not giving them anything is a
lot harder yeah.
Mayor Ryan: Right, and yeah and maybe they have ideas or options or one or the other but I’d
rather you know personally set that restriction. Have them think it over. Think of ways to be
creative with it. Again it’s not the tree cutting. It’s not making the roads. Let’s get those started
and moving forward. I understand all that. It’s more of when really the construction of all the,
you know the happenings going on with the overall construction of that it would be nice but.
Heather Johnston: Madam Mayor just for clarification you just mentioned you know not the tree
cutting…and it’s a challenge because it sounds like we’re trying to tell them what they can do on
Saturdays which and I turned to Charlie. He’s done a lot of project management. I mean I don’t
know…
Mayor Ryan: I’m not suggesting. I’m not telling them, I’m saying let them decide. I’m just
throwing out different pieces of it so they can come back with, if they don’t like not working on
a Saturday and they come back and say well this is what we would like to do on a Saturday and
this is what we won’t do on a Saturday and they come back with us that’s, I mean obviously we
have to have a pretty straight forward recommendation of either you’re working or not on
Saturday and then they have the ability to come back before council if they don’t like it, correct?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Charlie Howley: Yeah we don’t want to get into managing the types of work they can do. It’s
either in that north portion they’re just working on Saturday.
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Charlie Howley: And if we are, if you are going to split it to the south portion you okay on
Saturdays and the north portion on Saturday, we want to be very clear about where that
demarcation line is so it would either be this kind of blue property line right there or kind of right
there. Like this portion of the trail. Is that considered the north part or the south part? We
would need to give them that kind of line of demarcation.
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Kate Aanenson: That was getting more detailed than me.
Charlie Howley: So they’re going to ask, they’re going to say well can I go down that trail and if
we go ahhh.
Councilman McDonald: Well I just the thing is to the Mayor’s point, we probably do not have
enough of an idea of what they want to do and to just give them a blank check is not what we
want to do either so if restricting them with the ability to come back and explain to us why it’s
important then we can make a decision so I would go with your motion that you’ve outlined.
Councilwoman Coleman: Did someone write it down?
Mayor Ryan: I think you just have to, well I’ll ask Mr. Knutson but you just have to amend the
development contract?
Roger Knutson: Right. It hasn’t been adopted yet so you could say for example if you wanted to
you approve the development contract agreement for The Bluffs at Lake Lucy as presented one
change, the hours for construction are limited to 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on weekends period.
Kate Aanenson: On the north part.
Mayor Ryan: Do you want to just do the north part?
Councilman McDonald: I thought you wanted to do both.
Mayor Ryan: Do everything and then they can come back.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah because they may be linked together right? That’s why we
wanted them to come back.
Mayor Ryan: I’m flexible with the lower portion being able to work on a Saturday because it’s
not such a tight configuration so, but you suggested that that would be too challenging.
Charlie Howley: I’m saying it might be based on how they stake their work. They may say well
we can’t really do much on the south part anyways if we can’t work simultaneously with the
north part.
Mayor Ryan: Right.
Charlie Howley: I don’t know that. I’m speculating that.
Kate Aanenson: Well wouldn’t we just leave it in then?
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Roger Knutson: Then you could, if they, if you approve something and you discuss and they say
that won’t work, then they can come in and ask for it to be amended.
Councilman McDonald: Right. That would be the point of it is that, if that’s not feasible then
fine. Tell us why. That’s all we’re asking.
Charlie Howley: Well I think what would happen is say, they wouldn’t have to come back and
say anythi ng. They’d just say we’re not going to work on Saturdays on either portion which is
fine right? They wouldn’t come back and say change it to say no work on Saturday. If you give
them half.
Roger Knutson: They wouldn’t have to use it just because you gave them the flexibility.
Charlie Howley: Correct, correct, correct. So that gives them the flexibility, the option to
continue to work on Saturdays just on the south half.
Councilman McDonald: I guess I would expect them to come back and tell us why they need to
do it but if you think that that will work and they’ll say ah just to hell with you guys. We’re not
going to work on Saturday. Okay fine, so be it. I just want to make sure everybody’s got the
options available and we’ve made it clear that okay if this isn’t going to work tell the council
why and we’ll debate it and vote on it from that standpoint but the way it’s currently written it’s
too much of a free card and that’s not what we want to do. Blank check. Yeah we don’t want to
do that.
Heather Johnston: Madam Mayor, Councilman McDonald, I think…and their whole entire
schedule is built on our current ordinance and so even if you, so you currently give them that and
they will just come back and say we’re being delayed. And what you’re hearing from Charlie is
that they often work on the construction site as a whole and so it maybe isn’t practical for them
and so even it might be good to give him the permission to do…but practically you’re still going
to be delaying them…and again I’m speculating but they have built an entire construction
schedule on being able to work according to what is currently in the ordinance so that’s I think
what they’re expecting and I think it would be…
Mayor Ryan: And I will say that I am not practically concerned about Lennar’s construction
schedule as I am about the residents that are living there and the interference of their weekend
you know on their Saturday so this has been a thorn in a lot of residents side for a lot of reasons
and I just, if you go up to that neighborhood which I know you all have it is an extremely tight
space and it is literally in people’s back yards and so I just think that giving them Saturday where
they don’t have people wandering around in their back yard would be a benefit. And if they
can’t do it and it delays them and they come back and say it’s going to take us an extra 6 months,
well then I think all of us on council would say that seems ridiculous and you know we’ll
consider something else but at this point let’s see if they can manage the project with one less
Chanhassen City Council – October 12, 2020
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day for the top and not the bottom and go from there so Julia, or Councilwoman Coleman if you
are ready for a motion.
Councilwoman Coleman: I am. I just had one more question to Mr. Howley’s point. Do I need
to mention anything about the specific line of anything?
Charlie Howley: I think as staff we can point them in the right direction without it being in the
motion. I just want to feel comfortable are we talking about this line that I’m hovering over or
are we talking about that line that we’re hovering over?
Roger Knutson: You could attach a map to the permit.
Charlie Howley: Yeah.
Mayor Ryan: I don’t have a preference on that line. I mean I would defer to your judgment on
that of what you know what you talk about with them. You know to help with their efficiencies.
I think that.
Charlie Howley: Then I would pick this spot over here because at least it gives them that amount
on a Saturday to maybe start working on.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Councilwoman Coleman: Sure.
Charlie Howley: So you don’t have to include it in the motion.
Councilwoman Coleman: Okay. So the City Council approves a grading development contract
and the updated overall development contract for The Bluffs at Lake Lucy with an amendment
restricting construction hours on the north portion of the development to 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Monday through Friday.
Roger Knutson: And allowing construction on the south part on Saturday.
Councilwoman Coleman: Allowing construction on the southern portion of the development on
Saturdays from, was it the same timeframe?
Roger Knutson: As depicted on the attached map.
Kate Aanenson: I think if she just amends the one part isn’t that?
Mayor Ryan: Yeah because it’s Saturday still… So just start again and just do the northern part
because the rest of it…
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Councilwoman Coleman: Alright, the City Council approves a grading development contract
and the updated overall development contract for The Bluffs at Lake Lucy amending the
construction hours on the northern portion of the development from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Monday through Friday.
Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilman Campion: Second.
Councilwoman Coleman moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City Council
approves a grading development contract and the updated overall development contract
for The Bluffs at Lake Lucy amending the construction hours on the northern portion of
the development from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 4 to 0. Thank you Ms. Aanenson.
Kate Aanenson: Yep thank you.
Mayor Ryan: And Mr. Howley. And that’s it for old business. No public hearings. No new
business and so we’re moving to council presentations.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Ryan: And I have a council presentation tonight as we are, even though he’s not done
with us after this meeting because he has to stay a little bit longer after the meeting and then a
little bit more work but we are wishing Greg, Mr. Sticha our Finance Director farewell and good
luck so I’d like to read a little letter for you. Since this is your last official meeting. Dear Greg,
on behalf of the City Council I would like to thank you for your 15 years of service to the City of
Chanhassen as it’s Finance Director. You have played a significant role in the financial health
and stability of the City and we are indebted to you for sharing your professionalism and
expertise in helping maintain the City’s AAA bonds rating. You have managed to keep budgets
balanced and insured transparent financial reporting all while keeping your sense of humor and
commitment to providing the best information for all of us council members to make financial
decisions. Your colleagues will remember you, your stage advice with some of these following
statements. Quote, this council will never go for that. The second one, if it were up to me. I
think we might have heard that tonight as a matter of fact at our work session. Personally I want
to thank you for your leadership of the Economic Development Commission. Your willingness
to take on this new assignment to help with the long term economic growth of the City is much
appreciated. We will miss you here at the City of Chanhassen and wish you the very best in
your future. So thank you for all of your hard work and we wish you the best of luck in the
future so thank you Mr. Sticha.