12-01-20-pc - Verbatim Only-No SummaryCHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 1, 2020
Chairman Weick called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Steven Weick, Mark Randall, Doug Reeder, Laura Skistad, Eric
Noyes, Michael McGonagill, and Mark Von Oven
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; Sharmeen Al-Jaff,
Senior Planner; Robert Generous, Senior Planner; Erik Henricksen, Project Engineer; and Matt
Kerr, IT Support Specialist
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Bala Chintaginjala 8982 Southwest Village Loop
Roger Frerichs 6648 Lake Lucy Drive
Ken Ashfeld 6480 Yosemite
Duke Zurek 9451 Foxford Road
John Wicka 2547 Bridle Creek Trail
Weick: Before we begin I would like to just call a quick roll call to make sure we do have a
quorum. When I announce your name, just say here for the commissioners on the Zoom call.
Commissioner Randall?
Randall: Here.
Weick: Good. Commissioner Reeder?
Reeder: Here.
Weick: Commissioner McGonagill?
McGonagill: Here.
Weick: Commissioner Skistad?
Skistad: Here.
Weick: Yes, thank you. Commissioner Noyes?
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
2
Noyes: Here.
Weick: And Commissioner Von Oven?
Von Oven: Here.
Weick: So we have a full house, seven commissioners tonight, and a quorum. Thank you for
that. Just quickly reviewing the guidelines for this evening’s meeting. This is a Zoom meeting.
Please be patient with us as we work through that and make sure that everyone is heard that
wants to be heard. Also, for the commission members please don’t hold side chats or text
messages discussions. We just need to make sure that all of our discussions are public and for the
public record. Again, there are three items on tonight’s agenda. The items are presented as
follows: Staff will present the item. We will then have a moment for clarifying questions from
the Planning Commission. I did want to just take a moment to clarify the process. I would ask
that the Commission members consider the type of discussion we have following the staff
presentation and limit that conversation to clarifying questions only. By that I mean, I actually
grabbed an example that I had in our previous meeting from the transcript where I asked for
clarification about the number of recreational vehicles that were allowed on the property, which
was great and I got the answer to that and then I went on to sort of give an opinion about that,
about what I thought about the number and what I thought that would do to the amendment.
That’s really not the appropriate time to have that type of debate or opinion. We really just want
to ask clarifying questions of staff. The reason for this is twofold. First and foremost, it’s our
responsibility to allow staff, the applicant, and all of the public participants to be heard through
an unbiased ear. We’ve all done a lot of research, we’ve looked at these items in a lot of detail
and preparation, and the time for us to discuss is really after we’ve heard from all of the parties
that are present tonight. Second, it will help expedite the process ultimately by limiting repeated
discussion that might be had throughout the evening. So you’re not getting graded, you’re not
getting corrected, and you certainly won’t get interrupted, but just keep that in mind as we work
through the process. We want an opportunity to ask each group questions and then at the end
bring all of that information together and then have our discussion about the item. After staff’s
presentation and clarifying questions, the applicant can make a presentation and we can ask
clarifying questions of the applicant as well, I will then open the public hearing. It is a little bit
different in today’s world. We have received emails, those will be summarized for the record and
noted for the record. Anyone here in person who would like to make a comment about an item
may come forward and be heard. We are practicing social distancing within the chambers and we
are taking telephone calls so if you are listening the phone number will appear on the screen and
you may call in and be heard for the record as well. Once we’ve heard from everybody we will
close the public hearing and then the Planning Commission can discuss, clarify things with staff
and then work on a motion and a vote. Thank you for hearing me out on that. With that, I will
present our first item.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
3
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE CHANHASSEN
GATEWAY PUD, MODIFICATION TO PUD-SPECIFIC DESIGN FEATURES, AND
AMENDMENT TO CROSSROADS OF CHANHASSEN SITE PLAN WITH
VARIANCES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A 5,100 SQUARE-FOOT AUTOMOTIVE
REPAIR SHOP LOCATED AT 8941 CROSSROADS BOULEVARD.
Weick: I will give it to Sharmeen.
Al-Jaff: Thank you Chairman and members of the Planning Commission. The application before
you is for a site plan to allow an automotive repair shop within the Crossroads Development. The
site is located southwest of Crossroads Boulevard. It has an area of .79 acres and is zoned
Planned Unit Development. Just a brief background on this. The 2030 Land Use Plan guided the
site mixed-use. The area surrounding 212/101 intersection has been guided mixed use. These are
the types of designations for uses that will meet the daily needs of the surrounding area. They
also will accommodate high-density residential developments. In 2005 the City approved a
concept plan for this area overall location and basically the area located north of Highway 212
was guided residential. The southern portions was a combination of commercial as well as office
spaces. Again with the intent that these are neighborhood types of commercial uses that will
meet the daily needs within this vicinity. We began working with Christian Bros. approximately
six or seven months ago. This is an auto repair facility. Auto repair shops are not a permitted use
within the Crossroads Development. As part of the work that we asked of them we needed a
complete design that they submitted. The request is for a 5,100 square-foot building. Because
this is a Planned Unit Development the overall site coverage is calculated as not to exceed 70%.
In this case the total hard surface coverage within this entire development is 43.8%. The
architecture of the building and design is attractive. All four elevations of the proposed building
have received equal attention. Materials used on the building are of high quality. It is proposed to
include brick, block, EFIS, as well as metal. The garage doors (there will be nine of them) are
proposed to be made of glass and metal. They are fully screened. The overall design of the
building is compatible and harmonious with existing buildings as well as future proposed
buildings. This is accomplished through using compatible materials, complementary design
elements including parapet walls, pronounced entryway, use of canopies over the windows,
awnings over the windows, and glass windows throughout this development. Parking for this
building is buffered from views through evergreens and landscaping. The total required parking
for this development (there is a shared parking agreement for all of the buildings) and the total
should be 247 and this entire development is proposing 278 parking spaces. Signage is proposed
to include two wall-mounted signs facing northwest and southeast. Signage is in compliance with
the ordinance. They do need to apply for a building permit but these are individual letters,
backlit. There is one monument sign proposed along the northwest corner of the site and it may
not exceed 24 square feet. Trails and sidewalks are intended to allow for connection between the
subject site and the surrounding area and it will separate pedestrian from vehicular traffic. The
landscaping plan is in compliance with ordinance. The shrubs along the east side of the site will
fully screen the parking lot as well as the garage doors on this side. The applicant is proposing to
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
4
have a bench at the entrance in the southeast corner of the building. Lighting plan is in
compliance with ordinance. What you see along the right side of the screen is existing light
fixtures. What the applicant is proposing is very compatible with this development. This
development was permitted a maximum number of 71,500 square feet of total building area.
With this building the total number is going add up to 67,271 square feet. As I mentioned earlier,
the current standards for the planned unit development do not list auto repair shops as a
permitted use. Staff has prepared ordinances that regulate the automotive repair shop. The site
plan cannot be approved without approval of this planned unit development amendment. We are
recommending approval of the application with conditions. I’ll be happy to answer any
questions.
Weick: Thank you, Sharmeen. Very thorough as was the staff report. At this time I would open it
up for commission questions. You can go ahead and just speak up if you have them.
McGonagill: Sharmeen, the question I have go back to the site plan. Walk me through, I have
two areas of curiosity. One is how the effluent will be handled inside the bays. What are they
doing to wash down the bays, clean up, because there is oil and stuff leaking every day? How
will that be handled inside the facility itself environmentally? Does it go to our stormwater?
Does it go to sewage? Where is it going? The second one is out in the parking lot, the slope of
the parking lot. Which way does it go? For example, if someone brings in a car and its leaking
oil as they do and they are bringing it there for maintenance in rain, snow, whatever, which way
will it go? Will it go to the stormwater pond that you have there? I’m just curious about that. To
keep the contamination as I would call it on that site?
Aanenson: Sharmeen, do you want to let the applicant answer that question? If that’s all right,
Commissioner McGonagill?
Al-Jaff: Sure.
McGonagill: Sure, that’s fine. Or we can wait until the applicant presents.
Aanenson: I think they are probably more technically…
McGonagill: We can do that. What about the overall site grade? Do you know that?
Henricksen: Sharmeen, I can butt in here if you guys can hear me. This is Erik Henricksen. I’m
with the Engineering Department. I’m the Project Engineer. I did review of these plans. To kind
of go back to your previous question, if I recall in the plans, and I would leave this up to Kimley-
Horn too, but I believe they have a coalescing oil water separator. It’s a system that is
pretreatment prior to discharge into the sanitary sewer system. I believe I did see that on the site
plan. As far as slopes or grades it is relatively a flat lot. When the PUD was built out as mass
graded, this lot was a part of that mass grading so it is relatively flat. As far as the parking lot
itself, it does grade and drainage does go to the storm that’s going to be collected there so it
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
5
would be routed to catch basins in the parking lot. As far as the issue when cars are leaking in a
repair area there is really no pretreatment on the storm that it goes directly to but the main focus
again is how you deal with the pits and the drainage inside, which again is that pretreatment. It
did appear adequate from our review. Again, I think Kimley-Horn knows more about the ins and
outs of the, or the minutiae of that part.
McGonagill: Thank you. That’s what I was expecting was some sort of a water coalescer.
Usually that’s what you will see. Thanks.
Wakefield: This is Jonathan Wakefield. I’m the property procurement director for Christian
Bros. Automotive. I’m more than happy to answer the first part of the question regarding how we
handle the internal cleanliness of the shop. We are not a wash-down shop at all. Modern EPA
standards wouldn’t allow that and we’ve been compliant since we started operating in 1982. The
way that we operate we have a Zamboni-style machine. It looks like something you would see on
a small-scale hockey rink. It is a daily clean and scrub of the particulate matter that drops from
the cars. That includes snow melt, so on and so forth. There are trench drains within the shop to
take snow melt, rain, and so forth. That’s carried to the 750 gallon sand and oil separator that the
Engineering folks alluded to earlier. I can go into a deep dive of our environmental compliance
but we literally have a three-level containment system that more than exceeds state and federal
containment requirements. Again, if you want me to go deeper into detail I certainly can, but we
are as above and beyond as can possibly be imagined.
McGonagill: Thank you. That’s all I have.
Weick: Thank you. Great. Other questions from the commission or clarifying points?
Von Oven: This is Commissioner Von Oven. On the staff report pages 13 and 14 is where
you’ve got the PUD amendment and there you indicated staff had some concerns. In the bullet
points below that, two bullet points I wanted to call out and just understand if they are somehow
related or if they are not at all related. Bullet 2: All repair, assembly, disassembly… shall occur
within a closed building. The second to the last bullet point is all service garage doors shall be
screened. Is a garage door with a screen on it considered a closed building?
Al-Jaff: No. The screening of the garage door is through landscape purposes.
Von Oven: So we’re not talking about screens that allow noise through. We are talking about
like blackout?
Al-Jaff: No. Visual screen.
Weick: Like the trees.
Al-Jaff: So the trees along this…
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
6
Von Oven: Thank you. No further questions.
Al-Jaff: Thank you.
Aanenson: If I may, Chairman, I think that was one of the things that we contemplated when we
looked at the orientation of the building for noise. This is adjacent to kind of the frontage road
adjacent to 212 and so looking at that orientation the bays internally, but then that screening, the
landscaping screening provides an additional visual impact and the noise attenuation. So that’s, it
was kind of a twofold thing. We’ve had other auto repairs that there was conditions put on that
the doors had to down the whole time. That is really onerous. For one, staff to try and enforce,
and then seasonal times of the year that there may be some ambient noise. We have confidence
that the way this operation is going to go that it would fit in. Again, we know there’s a demand fr
this type of service in the community, and this seems like a good site. Kind of a transition when
you are behind the existing gas station with that Kwik Trip and working on that orientation.
Weick: Thanks, Kate.
Reeder: I’m Mr. Reeder. Does what we’re doing here is a repair business and not a collision
repair business? Does our ordinance distinguish between those?
Al-Jaff: Yes, it does. What you have here is basically the equivalent of changing tires, oil. It’s
not a body shop. It is actually engines and the running of…
Reeder: So you would not expect to have a car that’s missing a front end or a … or whatever
sitting in this parking lot?
Al-Jaff: Well it depends on what type of damage has…
Aanenson: Let’s let the applicant answer that.
Wakefield: Again, this is Jonathan Wakefield. We don’t do anything to the exterior of a vehicle
at all whatsoever. We don’t even do touch-up paint to a bumper. No window replacement. None
of that. We are strictly internal and with a modern vehicle, a very high percentage of the work
that we do is electronic and electronic diagnostic. Most vehicles have 32 on-board computers
and/or sensors and that’s the vast majority of what you fix anymore. The mechanical aspect is
still very important but our technicians are really accomplished at working with both a wrench
and a laptop. So, all the work happens within the bays and happens to vehicles that, they are not
there to have any kind of body work at all whatsoever, they’re just there to be repaired and put
back on the road. Does that answer your question?
Reeder: It does for you. My question for staff is whether or not the subsequent owner of this
building would be restricted to that kind of repair?
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
7
Al-Jaff: Yes, they would be.
Reeder: How?
Al-Jaff: The city code defines auto repair shops and differentiates it from body shops. What the
applicant is requesting is an auto repair shop, not a body shop.
Reeder: So if somebody wanted to put a body shop in this building, they would have to go
through an amendment to the PUD?
Al-Jaff: That is correct.
Reeder: In this current proposal are there any regulations on how many cars they can have sitting
in their lot waiting for repair?
Al-Jaff: No, there isn’t. There’s a limit on the number of parking spaces, there’s a limit on the
square footage and how many bays there are so I’m assuming that if they reach capacity as far as
vehicles that need to be fixed, they just will let their clients know that their appointment would
have to wait to a later date or time.
Wakefield: If I may I can elaborate on that as well. So there’s also is a stipulation in the
restrictions that we have accepted with staff and those restrictions require that any vehicles that
are in our parking lot, especially for overnight, must be operable. In other words, they can drive
under their own power. If they can’t, they are in the bays overnight. They also have to be
licensed. That keeps derelict vehicles from staying for extended periods of time. We don’t want
that. A, it’s a bad look. This is a high-end neighborhood. We want to look like our neighbors and
be attractive to them. That’s Item 1 and the other, somewhat self-serving here, when the cars
leave, that’s usually when we get paid. So there is no incentive for a vehicle to stay long term,
overnight occasionally as maybe somebody has to work late and they can’t pick up their vehicle
until the next morning and so it forces a courtesy. The first nine vehicles we have go in the bays
overnight, and if there happen to be some stragglers, we’ll put them in a lighted part of the
parking lot and they will be picked up or worked on the next day.
Aanenson: Chairman, if I may?
Weick: Yes.
Aanenson: That’s condition number 9 of the PUD and that’s what regulates it and that’s what
Ms. Al-Jaff was talking about. We do differentiate it in the code but it is further spelled out in the
PUD ordinance what was specific to this zoning district.
Weick: Thank you.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
8
Reeder: Mr. Chairman, I’m not sure if I heard all of that but everything he says sounds super to
me. Is that our requirement or the decision of the company that’s coming into this building at this
time?
Aanenson: It’s our requirement in the PUD. It says no vehicles that are inoperable can be parked
there and that also they have to be licensed. That’s pretty much universal throughout the zoning
district in the city. All other places that would do repairs.
Reeder: Super.
Weick: Great questions. Do you have more, Commissioner Reeder?
Reeder: I think I’m good. I’m just looking for the trash receptacle. I assume it’s on the end of the
building, is that correct?
Al-Jaff: That is correct. It is along the north, right here.
Weick: Which is towards Kwik Trip I think, right?
Reeder: Super. Thank you.
Al-Jaff: Northeast.
Weick: Great. Other commissioners with questions? Hearing none, I would ask the applicant to
rejoin us and if there is something to add. I know we’ve heard from you a couple of times
already and we certainly appreciate that. That is very helpful. But we’d give you an opportunity
to speak about the project and the neighborhood if you would like.
Wakefield: Absolutely. So again, my name is Jonathan Wakefield. I’m the Property Procurement
Director for Christian Bros. Automotive. I also have representation from Kimley-Horn. Christian
was kind enough to give up an evening to back me up if you ask anything too terribly technical.
Our Chief Development Officer is also on the call so you’ve got a Director and a CDO. That
hasn’t happened before and hopefully that speaks to how important this project is to us and how
taking root in your community is something that we dearly want to have happen. Also, a
representative from the current owner of the property is here. We are in the process of buying it,
developing it, and it is our goal to bring it to fruition. In looking at the history of this site, the lot
that we are occupying was original designed for a bank. There are some things about Christian
Bros. Automotive that I want to get into; some advantages that may not be too apparent. One of
them is that our traffic count is extraordinarily low. As compared to a bank, we will reduce the
traffic that it would have generated by 60-80%. So, at worst 60%. At best, 80%. The
McDonald’s that’s already there and operating, we do less business by volume from a traffic
standpoint all day than they do in 30 minutes. It’s stunning. There’s a value add in having a very
low traffic generator. That’s really speaking to the transactional side of Christian Bros. coming in
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
9
and becoming part of this development. From a noise standpoint, that wasn’t brought up here in
this particular forum, but it was brought up by staff. It was a detracting letter that was sent in an
email. Somebody gave their voice and had a concern I wanted to address that as well. As staff
alluded to our building orientation places the bays facing inboard and away from the street. The
only people who might hear anything out of us might be the Kwik Trip, at worst. We’ve done
two acoustic studies in other locales for other municipalities and we know, without any shadow
of a doubt, that by the time the sound reaches our property line and crosses into somebody else,
our loudest noise, which is the air hammer which takes the nuts off of a tire, is 74 decibels at the
door and is attenuated out to somewhere between 40 and 50 decibels at the street. For reference,
my speaking voice, I’m told, is somewhere between 50 and 55 decibels. I can talk all day as my
staff will tell you, but we’re not running an air hammer all day. We work on about 17 cars a day,
and that’s it. We are a true repair shop. We are not a tire and lube shop. That’s not our bit. We
don’t need 200 cars a day to come through to have a viable business. That’s not what we’re there
for. We see some real advantages. There was a line in the staff report that I really enjoyed and it
was talking about neighborhood commercial uses: “Those uses that meet the daily needs of the
residents.” That’s exactly what we do. A gas station does that. Having a childcare facility there
does that. Across the street, although not part of this development necessarily, the Park and Ride
does that. McDonald’s does that. Businesses that may or may not be liked in what they do but
have a strong and positive impact on the community in the way that they serve it. Christian Bros.
Automotive certainly does that. There were some environmental questions. I think I answered
those. Lighting has been talked about. Again, that’s the transactional part of our presentation but
I also want to move into the relational aspect of Christian Bros. and who we are and why we do
what we do. We’ve been in operation since 1982. We have over 230 stores across the nation
approaching 30 states. We may have 30 states. I’ve actually lost count in the 10 years I’ve been
with the company. This is not our first rodeo by any stretch of the imagination and it’s not our
first store in this particular area or your state. We are also in places you may have heard of:
Maple Grove where incidentally we are part of, we are actually in their parking lot, for Parnassus
Preparatory Charter School, so we play very well with others, even educational facilities like
Primrose who is directly adjacent to us. Also in the Maple Grove facility, there is a Tender Time
childcare facility as well and our Lakeville location we are one lot over from a KinderCare and
actually we are directly adjacent to a KinderCare in Clive, Iowa. We’ve got another location
coming up in Inver Grove. Two more in development: one in Woodbury and one in Savage.
Actually a couple more that are too early to talk about. I say all that to say this: We are a highly
professional company. Extremely reputable. Incredibly clean. I would challenge anyone and we
offered this to staff as well, at least I told Christian to offer it to staff. Feel free to drive and look
at any of our other facilities, the way they are operated, way we handle cars, the way we treat our
customers, the shuttle vehicles that we have and then we take them to work and back, which
helps reduce the car count. We are excited about the Park and Ride, that somebody could
conceivably drop their vehicle off and before they hop on that mass transit vehicle, drop it off
with us. We will fix your care while you are at work and come pick you up at the parking lot and
take care of you. That’s a service that very few can offer. Again, I can’t stress enough how
deeply embedded we are in the communities that we serve and service. We don’t look at our
customers as customers or clients. They are friends. I know that sounds a little bit salesy but we
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
10
are a faith-based company and we are very proud of that and we feel that if we’re allowed to be a
part of this community, a part of this development, we will have a lasting impact. I don’t know if
I said it or not but since 1982 we have not closed a single location. Our business model is sound.
Automotive repair is an essential business and during this time of COVID where we are all
coping and doing strange things like having meetings in your home office, we have continued to
shine. We had one down month and then it picked up immediately. Actually, the month after our
down month was the best month we’ve ever had. We’re survivors and we’ll do well here and are
very much looking forward to being part of what you already have and possess here: a great
community. Again, I’m open for any questions. I’ve been with Christian Bros. for 10 years.
There’s not a whole lot that hasn’t been thrown at me before and I can take it.
Weick: Well, thank you very much. It’s a great presentation. You answered quite a few questions
of mine. In that presentation, and I will certainly turn it over to our commission members if there
are any clarifying questions they need to ask you or your team. We’ll give everyone a second to
gather their thoughts if they would like.
Wakefield: This is usually the part where I say I’ve flown in from Houston, Texas and my time
is your time, but obviously we are not doing that right now. So I’m actually going to get to have
dinner after this with my family so that’s kind of cool.
Weick: That is a good side of it, yes.
Wakefield: Anything you’ve got. We’re an open book. Very transparent.
Weick: Are you working on something over there, Commissioner McGonagill? Okay. I wasn’t
sure if you were turning or not. Okay.
McGonagill: I’m good.
Weick: I can see you. I can’t see everybody else. It doesn’t sound like, it sounds like you’ve
touch on everything and you’ve certainly answered a few questions, throughout the staff
presentation as well, so thank you very much. I appreciate the detail you provided and it certainly
left our Commission members speechless so it must have been thorough. I will now open the
public hearing portion of this matter. I will say that we did receive a couple of emails, or at least
two and those are in the record. I think one was in favor and one was opposed to the building of
the item.
Al-Jaff: Correct. Staff has received phone calls.
Weick: Okay.
Al-Jaff: Mainly inquiries about what is the development and we just were able to answer all of
their questions and ensure that if they had any comments or any concerns to let us know.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
11
Weick: Okay. Great. Anyone here present this evening who would like to come forward and
speak an opinion on this item may do so at this time. Just please state your name and talk as loud
as you can because the microphone is covered with plastic. Thank you for coming this evening.
Chintaginjala: Good evening. May name is Bala Chintaginjala. My address is 8982 Southwest
Village Loop. That is a townhome. From my home this proposed project is 800 feet away. By the
way, I spoke to Sharmeen earlier today about this project. She tried to explain. Actually, I went
through this project last weekend. It was very good. I am also a civil engineer. I worked for 10
years in the construction field but for the last 20 years I’ve been working in IT. I want to thank
the applicant for investing in our city. He created jobs and also he will fulfill the needs of
neighborhood residents. My request is, as long as we can keep the noise levels low as for the
allowable limits, as for the core, and pollution is under control as for the limits. I don’t have any
problem. I welcome this project and I want to vote yes for this project. Thank you very much.
Gentlemen, thank you. Excellent job.
Weick: Thank you so much and thank you for coming this evening and offering your views on
this project. Very important. Anyone else present who would like to come forward on this item?
We also have the call-in number on the screen. Is it lighting up over there?
Al-Jaff: Nothing is happening.
Weick: All right. So I mentioned the emails have been noted and are in the record and thank you
this evening for speaking. Your opinion on the item as well. We’re just checking the phones.
We’re just making sure anyone who wants to call in, can. I know it’s weird. We’ve done this a
couple of times but it still is a challenge to get used to the new way of doing things but we will
perfect it, I’m sure. With that, I will close the public hearing portion of this item. We’ve heard
from staff, our applicant, as well as members of the community in person and via email, and
telephone calls earlier. So thank you to everyone who has expressed their views and opinions on
this item. At this time the item is open for the Planning Commission to discuss the item amongst
ourselves, voice any opinion, concerns, and certainly would be open to a motion and a second as
appropriate. Yes, Commissioner Skistad.
Skistad: I am Commissioner Skistad and I appreciate all the work that went into this proposal
and I’m excited about having it. I do think it’s something we need for the community and it’s
very well done and very well thought out. The building is beautiful, so this would be something
that I would definitely support. I appreciate all of the parties that worked so hard on this project.
Weick: Awesome. Thank you. I concur. Some things that were touched on that I had written
down. Certainly people had mentioned noise a lot and one thing that I had sort of, I know
Commissioner Reeder had mentioned it, is it like, could it be a body shop and it’s not like that.
My big question was, is it like one of those quick-change oil places where you got like you
mentioned. They make money by turning cars. Turn and burn. Turn and burn and that’s where I
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
12
think you can start to get into unsightly potentially traffic patterns, noise patterns. They’re not as
concerned with limiting those things, right? They need to get in and out. That’s clearly not
what’s going on here and so I think that’s great. In fact, having seen that area and, I don’t think
it’s the number one probably noise unsightly or detractor, if you will, in that area. That Kwik
Trip is packed and like there’s cars everywhere, and people pumping gas and going in and out of
the store and running through the car wash. All this stuff. I just think it’s a good use of the land
and I think it will be a, I honestly believe it will be a good neighbor for the area.
McGonagill: Mr. Chairman, I would agree with you and I think the thing that I think about with
their effect is true. I mean a third of the price of your car these days is electronics.
Weick: Right.
McGonagill: And you’re not, everybody guarantees their drive trains for 100,000 miles but the
electronics are the ones you’re working on so I think it’s good. I appreciate the way they thought
it out. I do also appreciate staff’s conditions that you put in there on the fact of it has to be
drivable, things like that have to be kept sitting out there and there are some conditions to try and
keep it up as nice as possible and I think it would be a good add. These kind of facilities, if you
think about it, it will probably hire 12-15 people that will be good, permanent jobs by the time
you go through it all, not counting the suppliers, not counting anything else that goes through
there. It’s a nice extension so I’m in favor of it, Mr. Chairman.
Weick: Awesome. We would certainly entertain a motion if there weren’t…
Reeder: Mr. Chairman? I’m prepared to make that motion. I think it’s a good project in a good
place. I’m pleased with the operation suggestions that they have so I would make the motion.
Reeder moved, Noyes seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends
the City Council approve the Site Plan consisting of a 5,100 square-foot automotive repair
shop and Planned Unit Development amendment for Chanhassen Gateway allowing
automotive repair shops with standards, Planning Case 2020-21 as shown in plans dated
received October 30, 2020, including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation,
subject to conditions. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of
7 to 0.
Weick: The motion passes unanimously 7-0. Again, thank you for all your hard work Sharmeen.
I know this has been a long one and detailed and it’s very important any time we are amending
PUD and adding a new neighbor. We want to make sure that its right for the neighborhood and
this feels like a good one. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you to representatives from
Christian Bros. as well.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
13
Aanenson: I would just like to make a reminder Chairman that this item does go to the City
Council so for anybody that’s following along, that will be scheduled for the December 14th City
Council meeting for final action.
Weick: Thank you and thank you for coming and speaking this evening as well. Appreciate that.
We do have a couple other items on the agenda this evening.
PUBLIC HEARING:
REQUEST FOR REZONING OF PROPERTY AND SUBDIVISION OF A FOUR-LOT
SUBDIVISION (DEER HAVEN) WITH VARIANCES LOCATED AT 6480 YOSEMITE
AVENUE.
Weick: With that I will turn it over to Mr. Generous? Yes.
Generous: Thank you Chairman Weick. Commissioners…
Randall: Chairman? I’m going to recuse myself from this…
Weick: Okay. Just for the record Commissioner Randall has recuse himself from this item and
this item only which means he will not offer opinion or vote on the item. Thank you,
Commissioner Randall.
Generous: Thank you Chairman and Commissioners. Planning Case 2020-22, Deer Haven
Addition. Tonight’s the public hearing. This goes to City Council on January 11, 2021. The
applicant is Kenneth and Barbara Ashfeld. I just noticed that my title, it’s a rezoning as well as a
subdivision approval with variances for the 33-foot right-of-way, 24-foot street, and a private
street for a four-lot single-family residential development. The property is located at 6480
Yosemite Avenue. This is north of Lake Lucy Road about halfway between there and 63rd Street.
It’s on the easterly edge of the Pheasant Hills development. The right-of-way for Wood Duck
Lane runs to the north of this property but the road stops a little bit to the west of this property.
There is a small right-of-way access onto Yosemite that was dedicated with previous plats, 16.5
feet each time that they platted something. There’s only 33 feet of right-of-way. On page 5 I see
there is a typo in the report that says 31 feet but it should be 33 feet. The property is currently
zoned Rural Residential District. It’s guided for Residential-Low Density development which
permits densities of 1.2 to 4 units per acre. Part of my PowerPoint, I didn’t go into the rezoning a
lot but Rural Residential District is not consistent with the Land Use designation for the
property; however, our Comprehensive Plan allows that zoning to stay in place until a
development proposal comes forward. At that time the rezoning must be consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan. Under the Residential-Low Density land use designation there are four
consistent zoning categories: RSF which is single-family residential, R-4 which is mixed-low
density residential, RLM which is residential low and medium density, and PUD-R. The property
to the west is a Planned Unit Development-Residential. It has smaller lots and smaller setback
requirements. On the northeast and south sides of this development are properties that are zoned
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
14
RSF which is single-family residential. They’re requesting rezoning to single-family residential
which would be consistent with the three sides of this property plus they are smaller than the
minimum criteria for PUD-R zoning, so the most appropriate zoning and what we are requesting
approval of is the RSF rezoning of the property. The existing site is approximately 2.8 acres with
access via a private driveway that uses city right-of-way to get out to Yosemite and then the
driveway down to the home. The site is partially wooded. There’s one single-family home on it.
It’s served with sewer and water service that runs to the northwest between two of the homes in
the Pheasant Hills development. The proposed subdivision request if for 4 single-family lots.
Access would be via our public street, that doesn’t show up here, out to Yosemite and then direct
access to the individual lots would be via a private street. Within the development public sewer
and water would be extended and they’re going to provide stormwater treatment. They’re
currently in for preliminary plat approval so we don’t have any of the final construction plans.
Erik will actually go into those a little bit later. As part of this development there is currently
approximately 59% tree cover. Ordinance allows 30% to remain after development. They
estimate currently under their preliminary plans that they would meet that 30% tree preservation.
The tree preservation shows up as these cross-hatched areas on this map. With the final plat we
want them to verify that they are in fact meeting those tree preservation requirements and that
they install appropriate tree preservation fencing. With this, Erik will actually take over.
Hendricksen: Thanks, Bob. Thank you Mr. Chair and Commissioners for the opportunity to
present Engineering staff’s review of the proposed preliminary plat for the Deer Haven
subdivision. It will be a little bit of what Bob kind of went into but try to get into some of the
minor minutia beginning with the grading for the subdivision. It has been proposed to be
accomplished over two phases which is common when the goal would be to have custom-graded
lots. The first phase of which the extents are highlighted in purple, would accommodate the
installation of public utilities such as water and sanitary sewer. It would also accommodate the
buildout of the stormwater BMPs along with public road and a private street The second phase
highlighted in yellow, would be the individual lots which will be custom graded and would
ultimately be reviewed during building permit submittal. The provided grading plan and
stormwater narrative appear to be feasible. While both illustrate how surface water requirements
and subdivision ordinances would be met such as erosion control measures or drainage being
routed away from buildings and routed to stormwater BMPs for treatment. Ultimately, the
applicant will be required to provide a geotechnical report and updated plans when the final plat
and final construction plans are submitted for review. Sanitary sewer and water main will be
extended from the existing public utilities adjacent to the proposed subdivision. Sanitary sewer
will be extended roughly 550 feet from an existing manhole located at the end of Wood Duck
Lane and water service will be extended from an existing main abutting the subdivision. Based
on the existing topography and the existing pipe invert elevations at the manhole within Wood
Duck Lane, a gravity sanitary sewer system is being proposed and while the water main will be
extended resulting in a dead-end main, the applicant is proposing to connect the existing home’s
water service to the newly extended main. Currently it’s had from a different water main to the
east. With that proposal it will promote a higher level of water quality for the future of the
property owners of the subdivision. Lastly, the applicant is proposing an 8-inch water main to be
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
15
extended while the minimum diameter of water main that the city will allow per our standards is
6 inches. If feasible, based on fire flows and pressure, the city will require a 6-inch line be
installed instead. A 6-inch water main would promote lower maintenance costs in the future
along with the additional water quality benefits as the volume of the water in the dead-line would
be less. It would cycle out or refresh more often. Access to the subdivision is being proposed off
Yosemite Avenue via a newly extended public street with individual lot access being had from
the extensions of the private street as Bob indicated. The image shown illustrates this
combination of public and private street extensions with the green arrow being the portion of the
public street, and the yellow arrow being the portion of the private street. Because the current
right-of-way extending from Yosemite Avenue does not meet the 60-foot wide standard set forth
in Chapter 18, the applicant is requesting a variance for both right-of-way width and public street
width. After much review by City staff of the multiple options of providing access to the
proposed subdivision, staff finds this request to be the most reasonable and prudent approach. If
the applicant were to extend the existing Wood Duck Lane cul-de-sac, which is illustrated by the
red arrow, it would further exacerbate a non-conforming cul-de-sac, which is already 1,100 feet
long as illustrated in the orange. Additionally, the City cannot grant approval of a private street
through public right-of-way with the extension from Yosemite being a private street all the way
into the subdivision is not feasible. As such, staff believes that the proposed 24-foot wide public
street located within a 33-foot wide right-of-way will adequately serve the subdivision of the 4
lots. However, the applicant will be required to secure additional right-of-way from the property
to the north in order to construct the street which was highlighted in the staff report for this
agenda item. The applicant has already engaged that property owner and is working towards the
grant of easement which will be a condition to be recorded currently with the recording of the
final plat. With that, Bob, I turn it back over to you.
Generous: Thanks Erik. The provision of private streets and right-of-way and street width
variances are covered under the subdivision ordinance. Private streets may be permitted if they
meet the criteria in Section 18-22 of the Subdivision ordinance. The applicant is proposing to use
existing right-of-way to provide the public street connection; however, that right-of-way is only
33 feet wide. Our current standard is 60 feet. However, all of that is off site from this
development and their existing right-of-way so we are allowing them to use that. Additionally,
new street design requires a 31-foot street back to back and they’re proposing a 24-foot street
back to back which would fit within that 33 feet of right-of-way and give us enough space on
either side for snow storage and stormwater attenuation. As Erik said, we believe that it meets all
the criteria variance findings for Section 18-22. Use of the private street provides additional
potential benefit, reduces the amount of impervious surface that will be in that development as
well as potential for additional grading. Additionally, they’re going within existing right-of-way
that’s off the property and that’s the variance for the substandard street width and right-of-way
width. The hardship is due to the existing circumstances within this area. There’s only 33 feet of
right-of-way existing for a public street and there is not a need to access the other properties with
the service private street into the development going to the south off of Wood Duck Lane.
However, Wood Duck Lane would be public within the Stoddardt development if they wanted to
develop an additional lot off the south end which is north of Wood Duck Lane. There is a
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
16
potential for doing that onto a public street. This site is very unique in the community. As Erik
pointed out they can’t go Wood Duck Lane to the west and extend that right-of-way because we
have an overly long cul-de-sac. This provides a cul-de-sac that is shorter and it won’t be
detrimental to the public welfare because the public access off of Yosemite would be a public
street and it’s just the four lots within this development that will have direct access onto the
private street. Staff believes they meet all the criteria and findings for a variance under the
subdivision ordinance. With that, staff is recommending approval of the rezoning from Rural
Residential to Single-Family Residential, approval of the four-lot subdivision and this is for
preliminary plat approval with a variance for the use of the private street as well as the 33-foot
right-of-way for the public street and a 24-foot wide street design, and adoption of the Findings
of Fact and Recommendation. With that, I would be happy to answer any questions.
Weick: Thank you. I appreciate it. Great report and great presentation. While our Commission
gathers their thoughts and questions, I did have couple. It relates to the grading and I was out
there and there’s like a road there. I was afraid to drive it because I thought it looked like a
private drive so I didn’t want to drive back there and look at it. I went up on that (63rd) and you
can kind of peer in between the house and you can see the property. It’s a pretty significant hill, I
call them hills, the grade is fairly significant and it sounds like that is going to be graded down. I
guess my question would be when that gets graded down does that create any type of like a bowl
situation with the homeowners that are on Yosemite and then maybe the homeowners to the
west. You know what I mean? When the purple area and yellow area get graded out to the east
and the west then does that create an area that’s significantly lower than the areas to the east and
the west? I call it a bowl, right? Like everything comes down into that development. I’m just
curious if it creates that situation.
Hendricksen: From the proposed grading plan the… on the west side, they’re going to have to tie
in to the existing grades at their property line. What the custom-graded lots and this preliminary
grading plan showed was essentially kind of backyard swales that would pick up any kind of
drainage and direct it north to right where your cursor is, Bob, is where the stormwater BMP is.
So that’s kind of a stormwater basin essentially. Conversely, on the west side it’s kind of more or
less sheet flowing with the private drive and the front yards directing all the drainage to that
stormwater. I don’t know if that adequately answers the question but I don’t anticipate.
Stormwater from what we saw in the preliminary grading plans was being accounted for and
routed appropriately. There will have to be some refined design with the public street section as
that was conditioned. It’s definitely feasible. We have stormwater infrastructure off Yosemite
that this can be tied into because this will be public stormwater and public drainage but I, that’s
kind of the general overall grading.
Weick: I think that answers it. I didn’t know if we were creating some kind of a weird sort of
backyard situation.
Henricksen: Right. With preliminary and final plat, especially with custom-graded lots we
definitely ensure that the original proposal is feasible. The purple section is what would be
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
17
graded first to get all the infrastructure and everything teed up and then I don’t know the actual
ins and outs if the lots will be sold individually or how that will be done, but when a builder
comes in for custom-graded lots, we ensure that whatever lot is sold that the grading plan that
they’re proposing because they can alter a little bit where the house pad is, how they’re building
out the lot, we ensure that the drainage, that’s one of the main things to look for on these
building permits on the grading plan, is consistent with the overall plan of the subdivision. It’s
not lost along the way.
Weick: Cool. Okay. Then I have one other quick question I think I know the answer to but the
straight city street that comes into the private then joins at the bend to the private, we (the City)
maintains it. Plows it up to the bend? Okay
Henriksen: Currently with what’s being proposed there’s not really adequate space for a full cul-
de-sac so what we are anticipating seeing and what was kind of shown on the preliminary plan
would be kind of that modified hammerhead approach and that’s again for snow storage. That
kind of shows it. When get more refined plans we’ll probably condition that to maybe move.
We’ll talk to our Street Superintendent to see what the best kind of plowing operations would be
but that would be owned and maintained a city, a public street.
Weick: Okay. Thank you. That’s the only other question I had. I would open it up to other
commissioners.
Skistad: I have a follow-up question to Commissioner Weick’s question. When we did that
custom grading I’m just reminded of that other project that we looked at where they had a
serious problem with the drainage, which is I’m sure what the other Commissioner is speaking
about as well. How do they ensure that they are following that custom grading plan? Do they
have like a before and after review of some kind?
Henriksen: That’s a really good question. When the preliminary and final plat get approved by
that time we get the final construction plans which shows the overall intent of the grading plan.
When a builder comes in for a building permit they also have to provide a survey with proposed
grades in which we review to make sure that the drainage is adequately being accounted for and
relatively reflects what the overall drainage intent was with the subdivision. Once a building
permit is issued the builder will go out and grade, and by the time the lot is built out they have to
do what is called an as-built grading survey and that will go to our building permit specialist and
they’ll kind of take a look at it… They’ll look at what the proposed plan was from what the as-
built is showing, see if it jives. If it doesn’t, obviously they have to do follow up and then inquire
with the surveyor but then we’ll actually go out on site and do a visual inspection to make sure
it’s graded as, generally as the intent of the building permit. So throughout the process there is a
lot of checks that are involved. That the Engineering Department and Water Resources will even
be looking at erosion control and go through to ensure that the buildout is per the permit.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
18
Skistad: Okay. That makes sense. So there’s a couple of different survey requirements that
happen through the process?
Henricksen: Correct.
Reeder: Two questions. One, I’m not a proponent of private roads. I would like to hear a little bit
more of why we’re not proposing a public road all the way down. And secondly, what happens
to the ownership of the outlot? Who will own and maintain the outlot?
Generous: The primary reason for not going with a full public street for the private street section
was the additional hard cover that would be created on site and the additional stormwater
improvements that would have to be put in place as well. There’s addition maintenance
requirements for the City. Public streets are generally intended to connect multiple properties.
This is going into one property so it doesn’t make a lot of sense to continue a public street down
there. We looked at the opportunity. They could put in a public street but then we would get an
additional 11 feet of pavement within the roadway section and additional grading to the side
property lines. That’s the primary impact between the public and private street. The maintenance
of the private street goes with the benefitting properties. It’s either through an access and
maintenance agreement or in the staff report we recommend that they establish a homeowners
association to address the maintenance and long-term care for that private street.
Reeder: What about the outlot?
Generous: The outlot could be association ownership or it could be an individual ownership but
they would. On top of that it’s the easement and access agreement that would cover the
maintenance of the street itself. It may also address the maintenance of any landscaping that is
installed within there and the mowing of the property. The applicant may be better able to
express his intent with the outlot itself.
Reeder: Okay. That’s a good question because it seems like somebody needs to be in charge of
that outlot for the future is somebody stores a junk car or something.
Weick: Fair enough. We’ll leave that for the applicant to answer when they present. Thank you,
Commissioner Reeder. Any follow up that you have on that or are you okay?
Reeder: I’m good.
Weick: Okay. Commissioner McGonagill?
McGonagill: Bob, I’ve got two areas of questions. The private street, looking on page 10 of the
staff report… My first question on a private street and this is something we’ve seen private
streets before by I don’t recall one that was this long with this many homes on it. This has got
four homes and I noticed that the fire hydrant is at the bottom of that street so you get a fire truck
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
19
down in there what’s he going to do? He can’t get out. He can’t get around. I mean the hydrant’s
right about where cursor is. We try to be pretty rigorous about having conforming cul-de-sacs or
a way a fire truck can get in and out and we can still have access. There is four homes along her
now and that’s one area of concern that I have. How does the private road allow it to be that
way? Where the other way we’re always in there trying to be sure we have fire truck access and
turnaround access.
Henricksen: So the fire hydrant was something we noticed and Public Works kind of looked at it
through the lens of well someone’s going to have to plow that and they’re probably going to
push that snow all the way down that private road and it’s going to hit that hydrant and that’s
going to be a nuisance to maintain and the like. So we, on the construction plan review which we
provided to the applicant and their engineer commented on the possibility of relocating that
hydrant. When it comes to access for emergency services and fire, the Fire Department, the
Chief, they do review of placement of hydrants. At this time there wasn’t necessarily a comment
or condition because that’s something they will assess and review in greater detail on a final plat
and final construction submittal. At this point we’re kind of looking mainly for feasibility.
Function over the form of it right now but to your point, with private roads there are details
within the fire code that show placement of let’s say a hydrant where is says Outlot A on this
exhibit here which would require a little bump out and maybe a little more clearance for the Fire
Department. With this being a dead-end too they take a lot of that into consideration. Where the
hose runs. Access for vehicles going in and out during an emergency situation. I hope that
answers the question but essentially that is something that staff, both Public Works/Engineering
and the Fire Department do those types of reviews. That was also caught by fire comment here.
McGongaill: I understand but we’re now, I realize you’ll do that perhaps when they go through
and plat it but you’re going through the process now I believe of approving whether you have a
private road or not and that’s one of the concerns I have, particularly able to have access to turn
around. The second thing with that is those four houses that are in there, I know what’s going to
happen. The garbage trucks are going to go down there and he’s going to have to back all the
way back out again. He’s not going to be able to turn around. Same thing if it would snow or
winter. Again, it’s the whole issue of being able to access it. I understand your comments about
not wanting to widen the right-of-way to make the public road with the amount of time it would
take up, but that solution for this many houses down in there does concern me.
Generous: If I may, Commissioner? The ordinance does provide for the provision of a
hammerhead turnaround which is what this area would be and I believe it’s 70 feet but I’m not,
60 feet in length.
McGonagill: I never hear that one.
Henricksen: It’s a 20-foot radius which again was assessed for feasibility to meet the turnaround.
That’s again for a dead-end fire apparatus road. That would ensure something as large as a fire
truck would have the ability to turn around rather than backing up all the way.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
20
Generous: Which would also accommodate a garbage truck.
McGonagill: Next question areas is tree cover, on the map on the tree cover, I think it was purple
almost, where all the trees were left. Yeah. That one. Basically, what’s happening, they’re having
to clear cut and grade the whole thing except for that bottom right-hand corner?
Generous: Any place that shows hatches preserve canopy area. As Jill has pointed out, we think
that they may be to provide additional preservation and we want them to verify that. Under the
preliminary plan they complied with ordinance. We always push them when we do the final
review to see if we can additional preservation.
McGonagill: When I was looking at the staff report, let me see if I can find it here. It talked
about the fact that it wasn’t going to be planned. There were going to try to maintain, get within
the plan, by working with them, but we were concerned trees being damaged by construction…
Here it is. It’s on page 14.
Generous: In the back of Lot 3?
McGonagill: Yes, we’re talking about the back of Lot 3 which is going to take out all those.
Then again it’s, we spend a lot of time trying to preserve tree cover here. I realize it’s one lot that
they’re going, one big area we’re going for 30% but I kind of go back to the fact of that it’s a
private drive/streets, would be wanting to look at almost the 30% per lot, but that’s just my
opinion. It is not a clarifying comment. I apologize.
Weick: So, in answer to your question is, yes, most of the trees will go out.
Generous: Unless they can revise the plan to show additional preservation.
McGonagill: Thank you. That’s all I had, Mr. Chairman.
Weick: Thank you.
Skistad: I have one more question. When you were talking about, I’m sorry I can’t remember
who, but the, actually I think Bob it was you, was they wanted an 8-inch PVC water main versus
the 6-inch. Why would they want an 8-inch versus a 6-inch? What would be the purpose of that?
Hendricksen: That was me who had addressed that. Typically it’s to provide more flow. My
assumption, and I won’t speak for them I guess, my assumption would be that in some cities that
may be the minimum so they were just, when they doing the design they were thinking that 8-
inch might be minimum size… In the City of Chanhassen we do 6-inch C900 PVC, the plastic
stuff, and I think we’ve checked the static pressures in the area here so it should have adequate,
the fire flows and pressure with the 6-inch main. What I was alluding to with the water quality is
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
21
because you have a smaller pipe. On a dead-end main, you’re dependent on the people drawing
the water and kind of flushing the system for you. Granted, it is a public main and we would
flush it, that hydrant yearly. With a smaller volume of water and people drawing from it you’re
going to have some higher quality of water than the 8-inch. There are no commercial or
industrial facilities here that might require that higher fire suppressions or sprinkler systems or
anything like that. But I digress, I would I guess let their engineers let us know why they want
this.
Skistad: Okay. Thank you.
Weick: Thank you, Commissioner Skistad. Other questions? Those were great. Hearing no more,
thank you Bob, and I will invite the applicant to make a presentation. Thank you. I repeat, just be
sure you speak loudly into that plastic-covered microphone. Thank you.
Kenneth Ashfeld: Thank you Mr. Chair and the rest of the Commission. Thank you for allowing
me to approach you this evening with this application. Firstly, I would like to thank your staff
for doing a very thorough review and providing any guidance on what is truly a pretty property. I
have an opportunity to work with very great guidance from him. I say this tongue in cheek that I
may live there but I think your staff, as many years as Kate and Sharmeen and Bob have worked
on this project, they probably know it better than I do. I am here to answer any questions that you
may have. There was a few raised that I think I can address. Mr. Chair and the rest of the
Commissioners, feel free to dive in at any time.
Weick: Okay. Thank you.
Ashfeld: I invite you to do that. It’s a very unique piece of property but a very nice setting in
through there. I made note of at least three questions that came up. Commissioner Reeder asked
about the ownership of that outlot and it would be intent to create an HOA of the four of us. Not
a large HOA. And put covenants on the properties for the maintenance of the roadway and
maintenance of the stormwater BMPs as well the mowing. The entire property has been mowed
all these years. It’s been mowed like a park and at the end of the day, that’s what I would still
like it to be. I’m going to continue to live there. Related to the tree cover, I was very fortunate to
have the opportunity for the City Forester to come out and visit with me on some of the trees.
Actually, some of the trees that we were really thinking of saving, after she had a chance to look
at it and advise me, she felt that they should go. They’re damaged over the years. They’re sickly.
There’s a couple of pine trees that they’re dead all the way up to the very tops so there like a, I
can’t remember what a tree in Florida is, but. So she was advising that those trees go.
Weick: Okay.
Ashfeld: When we, our first step was to come through with a preliminary plan just to get your
opinion, your feedback on whether this is all going to work and then on the final plat bring all the
details back together. Like I say, Erik and Bob have been very thorough in providing us guidance
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
22
on that. On the 8-inch water, I do work for a municipality, the City of Maple Grove, and 8-inch
is our minimum so that’s we were assuming, but to Erik’s point, and it’s a very good point, that
for water quality purposes it would be better to work with the 6-inch. We would make that
change. With that, that’s all I have really to say and I would stand for any questions that the
Commission may have of me.
Weick: Thank you, and I’ll open it, Commissioner Members can just jump in if you do have any
further questions for the applicant. We’ll give folks a chance to collect their notes. Hearing none,
thank you. Thanks for bringing this project forward and being able to answer our questions. We
have heard from staff and the applicant. At this time I will open the public hearing. The phone
number is on the screen. 952-227-1630 if anyone is present and would like to speak about this
item may come forward at this time. I don’t believe we received emails.
Generous: I haven’t…
Weick: I didn’t see anything in the packet either. I’m mumbling a little bit but there were no
emails submitted on this item. There is no on present coming forward, and unless the phone is
rattling off the hook over there, I will close the public hearing portion of this item. With that,
Commission Members may comment, offer some opinions, some concerns, and anecdotes?
Anything you would like. We certainly would consider a motion as well as appropriate. I guess
I’ll kick off if people are sort of gathering thoughts. I try and compartmentalize things and the
thing that kind of went unsaid in all of this I think, if I read this the correctly, the homes
themselves meet all of the RSF codes. There’s no variances on the lots themselves and the homes
which to me is nice. Now, there is significant consideration around how you access the homes so
I get that. But I don’t want to lose sight that the homes themselves meet all the lot setbacks and
lot coverage. Having looked at the property it’s a nice little carving of land in there. I think it
looks attractive. But again to your point, Commissioner McGonagill, I think access is the biggest
thing in making sure that it’s safe, first and foremost, for the folks that choose to live there.
McGonagill: Mr. Chairman, I agree with you. That’s my concerns. I realize too that people…the
property now…but after we do the grading and take out the trees. I know that those are over trees
and they will go…to recycle them but it change that whole look down through there. I do
appreciate the fact the homes meet the code. That’s all the same thing…they’re not doing
something crazy here. But I do question because…the density qualification for three homes. It
was two and worked something else out I would probably be, that way I would more room for a
road and cul-de-sac. I sit here long enough that I really come to try to be pretty rigorous about
being sure that we always really good access to places…school buses, cars, fire trucks, and
ambulances. All that. They’re on a narrow private drive even though it does have a hammerhead,
I think about in the wintertime. People plowing snow where we know…that access problems will
be a problem. I don’t have a solution for that, obviously. It’s an area of concern, I guess. Tree
cover loss, grading and the access for utility and commercial vehicles. Three areas I’m having
trouble getting over and not seeing a solution for. I thought of that…cut through, if you connect,
if it’s a cul-de-sac to the south, you can cut through it versus cutting through the owners’
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
23
property for that, come straight through that way. There’s not an easy solution for this. There’s
right-of-way. There is owners to the south. Difficult…
Weick: Thank you.
Skistad: I have a comment. When I first looked at it I thought it looked, just looking on the plat,
it looked too small have all of these homes on it but then you calculate the acres out. There all
.35, .35 acres, .41 and 1.1 acres so they are not on the smaller sizes. They are actually on the
larger sizes, even with the road there. So there’s more space there than it appears when you are
looking at the drawings, for instance.
Weick: I would have been interested to hear from affected neighbors. Having not heard opinion
one way or another I can only assume these people are okay. I give folks the benefit of the doubt
so I like to think that they sense that this fits and is okay. Other thoughts out there? I know
Commissioner McGonagill raised some very good questions and concerns. Any other opinions
on that?
Von Oven: I think mine comes actually as a combination of those two. I’m not terribly crazy
about the combination of things that Commissioner McGonagill brought up. At the same time, if
I try to put on my prediction hat, those things are more likely to pose problems for the future
residents of that private street then they are of the existing residents who are in the vicinity of it
and did not offer comment or any kind of reason for this not to happen. I think, had we received
a bunch of comments from the surrounding property saying why this private road would be a bad
idea, I might be more inclined to push back, but given the fact that this seems to be the best
solution to a tough-to-solve problem, I actually do not see any reason to deny it. So, I am in favor
of what we are doing here.
Weick: You said that a lot better than I did. Thank you. Which isn’t hard to do. Believe me.
Reeder: Mr. Chairman, I think there is a practical solution to this piece of property and complete
the development in this area and I think the private road is fine. There is no sense in building
asphalt that is not needed which would be the public right. So I’m happy with the way this is
presented.
Weick: Great. Maybe you could put the motion up. I’m not pushing anyone in this direction but I
certainly invite other comments or a motion.
Skistad: Can I just ask one more question before we go? I look at the road. It’s 24 feet and I
know we heard all the presentation for this but there’s no. I prefer a little bit wider roads in
general also, but there isn’t anything in the City that allows you to move a little bit more into that
outlot and make it a little bit greater, at least along the trunk of that line? Could the owner decide
to do that if they chose to have it a little bit wider? I can see that there is no parking or anything
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
24
along that, I mean there won’t be parking on the road because they can’t. Because they have to
have room for the emergency vehicles or the garbage or whatever.
Henricksen: Is it okay for me to speak up to the Commission? So, for private streets or private
roads, they are signed no parking. That’s a fire code or a fire requirement. There is no parking on
private roads. For the portion of the public right-of-way that would be installed at the proposed
24 feet, speaking with Fire, we would sign that for no parking on one side at a minimum.
Whenever a road is installed or has kind of that sub par or a little less wide than our 31-foot
back-to-back, that’s typically the case when we sign it for no parking and that would be a
potential condition on the final plat. That’s still, obviously, that has to be passed by Council, no
parking ordinances like that. It would be something that would be assessed once we get the
actual plans to look at what the cross-sections...
Skistad: Okay. So the answer is really no. That’s what this area allows based on what you’ve
looked at and 24 feet, and then you just have to deal with the 24 feet. Okay.
McGonagill: Mr. Chairman, I guess as I continue to go through this, someone said it and I think
they expressed my opinions pretty well. There are several issues I have with it that when I look
at them in total I can’t get over it. I must be honest. I’ll be voting against it. That’s not to say the
product shouldn’t be developed, but…I just don’t have a solution here where I can say it’s
palatable to me. I worry, I think about the houses to the east and houses to the west, but also just
the access in there and how traffic patterns are going to be and I just don’t like it. That’s the best
way to describe it. I just don’t. Sorry, but that’s where I’m at.
Weick: You do not have to apologize. I want to be respectful of your need to consider and that’s
why I’m sort of allowing some moments here to reflect and think on this item, but certainly
speak up if you have other questions or comments or if Commissioner McGonagill sparked
something in your mind.
Reeder: Mr. Chairman? I am prepared to make a motion.
Commissioner Reeder moved, Commissioner Von Oven seconded to recommend approval
of 1) Rezoning from Rural Residential District (RR) to Single Family Residential (RSF);
and 2) Subdivision approval to create four lots and one outlot with a variance for the use of
a private street to provide direct access to the four lots and a variance to use the 33-foot
right-of-way and 24-foot street section subject to the conditions of approval in the staff
report; and 3) Adoption of the Findings of Fact and Recommendation. The motion passed
with a vote of 5-1. Commissioner McGonagill voted against the motion and Commissioner
Randall recused himself and did not vote.
Weick: This item will go January 11 in front of City Council if you are following. Again, all
comments, all notes are in the record for City Council and they will consider certainly all of our
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
25
questions and concerns. Thank you to everyone who prepared for this item. We have one more
item on tonight’s agenda.
PUBLIC HEARING:
REQUEST TO REZONE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1601 LAKE LUCY ROAD FROM
RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL (LOW
DENSITY).
Weick: With that I will turn it over to Sharmeen. Thank you, Sharmeen.
Al-Jaff: Chairman and members of the Planning Commission, the application before you is a
request to rezone from rural residential to planned unit development. Briefly, the site is located
south of Lake Lucy Road. It is surrounded by Lake Lucy in its entirety. The site has an area of
approximately 9.03 acres. It is currently zoned rural residential. Access to the site is gained via
Lake Lucy Road. The 2040 Land Use Plan guides the subject site for low density residential.
Within a low density you can have 1.2 units per acre but no more than 4 units per acres. This
category can be either zoned into single-family residential, R-4 which is a mix of low density,
residential low and medium density, or planned unit development-residential. Rezoning this
property into any of those categories would allow the site to be consistent with the 2040 Land
Use Plan. Brief background. Back in 1993 the owners of the island at the time came in for a
wetland alteration permit for the purpose of constructing a bridge and a driveway to access the
driveway. There were multiple extensions granted to this. The work was completed on the bridge
as well as the driveway in 1999. Some of the things that have taken place that we also need to
point out is that since 2018 staff has been working with the applicant very closely. This site is
truly unique. It is the only island that has building rights within the City of Chanhassen. The
applicant’s goal is to build a single-family home for their family and an accessory dwelling unit
for his mother. The site contains bluffs and wetlands. It is located within the shoreland overlay
district of Lake Lucy and it has 100% tree canopy cover. The access driveway off of Lake Lucy
Road connects the island to Lake Lucy Road via a bridge. The length of this driveway is
approximately 1,600 feet and this is just the distance between Lake Lucy Road and the bridge
right here. Looking at the different options, we know that this is a lot of record, it is entitled to
the building of a single-family home. The applicant’s request was to have a principle structure
with an accessory dwelling unit. This can either be achieved via subdivision or rezoning the site
to planned unit development. We looked at the impact of subdividing the site versus rezoning it
to planned unit development. With a subdivision, you will be able to accomplish the additional
home; however, you will have to widen the driveway to 20 feet. There is additional grading, tree
removal, hard surface, potential for two additional home sites rather than the two that the
applicant is requesting. Also, there is more potential for grading with the extension of public
utilities. Through a planned unit development, the applicant would be able to use the existing
driveway. There is a septic system that is proposed on the site as well as a well. We are able
through the planned unit development regulations to cap the size of the accessory dwelling unit.
We can require the use of a single internal driveway and the planned unit development governing
the site would establish additional limitations on the site. The applicant selected to move forward
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
26
with a planned unit development approach. With that, staff directed the applicant to put together
a concept, bring it before the city to allow us to evaluate the request, and bring it before you. It is
important that we point out this is a concept. It was intended to give us an idea of what it is the
owner of the property’s intentions were and how to write proper ordinances that address
concerns, improve potential development of the site, add regulations and improve the quality of
development. Some of the things that we’re able to accomplish is that the total permitted site
coverage is 20%. What the applicant is proposing is going to be below 15%, 14.5% with this
concept. We sent this concept to multiple agencies including the watershed, the DNR, and staff
at the city, and there was one reoccurring theme that was pointed out by the different agencies
and different staff members and that had to do with the amount of grading and what can be done
to reduce the grading. So we had a discussion with the property owner and the initial proposal
basically looked at serving the main home via one driveway. At the southern portion of the
island the driveway would split to serve the accessory dwelling unit. We recommended that the
applicant unify those driveways and share access, basically eliminating everything that you see
in the hatched red and the applicant can talk about that further but he did agree to this request
and understood that this was a concern to many different departments and different staff
members. What some of the other elements that this planned unit development will regulate is
the fact that you can have one single-family home and one accessory dwelling unit. The
ownership of those two homes; they cannot be sold separately. These will remain under single
ownership. There is no short-term lease and with short term we are defining it as less than three
months. We are limiting the size of the accessory dwelling unit. There are measures in place to
ensure fire prevention. We are requesting that the driveways be combined. The applicant was
directed to continue working with staff to promote preservation of natural features of the site. We
are limiting the size of the accessory structures which also include water-oriented structures for
the island. We are also regulating dock rights within this development. Staff is recommending
approval of this application of this request because I had mentioned earlier, yes it can be
subdivided but this is a mechanism for the city to regulate the future development of this site.
This is the type of development when basically a one-size-fits-all ordinance was difficult to
implement on a parcel such as this one. We are recommending approval with comments in the
staff report and as an adoption of the attached ordinance. One thing I do need to point out is that
staff received three emails in addition to the emails included in your staff report. They were from
Gregory Fast, Kathryn Randall (also goes by Betsy), and Kim and Tom McReavy. The emails
basically included comments requesting minimizing grading, concerns with potential light
pollution on the island, impact to surrounding habitat. Other comments involved support of the
project, commending the applicant for removing buckthorn from the island. With that, we will
make sure that these are incorporated as part of the public record when this items appears before
the city council. I’ll be happy to answer any questions.
Weick: Great. Thank you. I will open it up for commissioners to ask questions.
McGonagill: I have the same questions I had before on the previous item and it’s about fire.
They’re going to have a well and other fire suppression sprinklers inside the structures?
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
27
Al-Jaff: Correct.
McGonagill: So there’s not a hydrant or anything down there? There’s no sewage down there?
They have their own septic system?
Al-Jaff: Correct. And there was a rather lengthy meeting that took place between the fire chief
and the applicant. They walked the site and they agreed upon a consultant that specializes in fire
suppression. The applicant would be able to speak to this matter further.
McGonagill: In the conversations with the fire chief is it his intention, as I just sit here looking at
the bridge, will the bridge take a fire truck?
Al-Jaff: Yes, actually it would.
McGonagill: So they could get equipment down there.
Al-Jaff: Correct. So what we are waiting for is official certification that the bridge will be able to
handle the truck. Preliminary investigations tell us that yes, it will be able to handle it.
McGonagill: Under the conditions of the PUD can you put in a requirement that the bridge
always be able to handle a truck? Bridges age. To meet that. I don’t know if there is a code for
that but I just want the ability to get an ambulance down there. At least to get one small piece of
equipment in there. If there was an emergency, that’s whose going to respond and I don’t want to
see the fire truck go blasting down through there no knowing if the bridge won’t take it and it
ends up in the lake.
Aanenson: I’m not sure you mentioned this Sharmeen but the house will be fire sprinkled.
McGonagill: Yes, she said that. But they respond. Like a 9-1-1 call, somebody calls and has a
heart attack or something and the fire guys, they respond. What I’m looking for is can in the
PUD you put requirements similar to commercial bridges. That it’s maintained at a certain
standard to allow fire equipment access.
Al-Jaff: Specifically from a safety standpoint and emergency management, that will be the
intent. Staff will check with the city attorney to ensure that…It is staff’s intent to ensure that this
requirement is part of the planned unit development. We will check with legal counsel.
McGonagill: The second question is similar to that. Is access for other commercial vehicles,
garbage trucks, etc., they will have the same?
Aanenson: Can I just clarify that, too? I think oftentimes in situations like that you have to bring
your garbage up to the street. That’s actually a private driveway so typically you take your trash
up to the end of the driveway, but we can clarify that.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
28
McGonagill: Okay. Very good. Because it’s, I just think about natural activities, landscaping,
and construction. People are going to always be doing something down there. There’s going to
be a weight requirement on that bridge?
Aanenson: Yes, when they are constructing the house for sure.
McGonagill: For sure and then as you go down the road it will be there too. I just want to ensure
that it’s maintained safely. I realize it’s a private drive. It’s not our responsibility. But with a
PUD it is. I mean we could put that in the PUD if that’s the way we want it to be done and just
ensure that it’s safe. Okay. That’s all the questions I have.
Weick: Great. Thank you. Other questions?
Noyes: I have a little bit of a follow up question to kind of the previous one and it’s related to
that private road and the maintenance of it. I would imagine the property owner is responsible for
the plowing of that road in the winter? The plowing of the snow? Are there any restrictions
related to use of road chemicals on that road given that this is a bridge over a lake.
Al-Jaff: So back in 1993 when the wetland alteration permit was approved for the construction of
the driveway one of the conditions was limiting chemicals used on the driveway.
Noyes: Thank you.
Skistad: I’m going to assume that flooding is not really an issue. It is an issue?
Al-Jaff: It is…the island sits over 30 feet above the ordinary high water mark of Lake Lucy so
it’s fine. It will be okay.
Skistad: Okay. The other question I had was the accessory dwelling unit. It says it has a
maximum of two bedrooms and it may not exceed 1600 square feet. I’m just wondering why we
are limiting it to two bedrooms because like a typical apartment would be 1200 to 1300 square
feet for a three-bedroom and this would be 1600 so it seems like…I was just curious about that.
Why we would be limiting it specifically to two bedrooms with 1600 feet?
Al-Jaff: So the 1600 feet was requested by the applicant. Number of bedrooms within the
structure, a couple of things came into play. The first one was the capacity of the septic system
that is proposed out there. This site will take in the sewage from the main house as well as the
accessory dwelling unit. The intent is to provide a place for mom to live as well as a potential
caregiver. So these are the two reasons why we limited the number of bedrooms, directly relating
to the septic system that’s going to serve this site. Also, we needed to ensure that this was not a
full-fledged detached single-family home but rather truly an accessory dwelling unit and it was
reasonable to limit the size.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
29
Skistad: Thank you.
McGonagill: Follow up on Commissioner Skistad’s septic system question, has any sort of
percolating test been done on the island to know if the septic system will work out there?
Aanenson: Just a second. Can you make sure you are speaking into your microphone?
McGonagill: Sure. I’m sorry. I’ll just repeat the question. Follow up on Commissioner Skistad’s
question on the septic system. Has any sort of percolating test been done on the island to give a
high degree of certainty that a septic system will work and not effluent go into the lake?
Aanenson: The Building Official looked at that, just cursory soil types, and they believe there is
a couple different types of systems but they are confident that one of those would work.
McGonagill: Okay. Thank you.
Von Oven: We’ve been very specific about this accessory dwelling unit so as not to make it a
sellable total home. I guess, given my unfamiliarity with those things, is there anything about an
accessory dwelling unit that makes it less safe than the requirements on a normal single-family
home?
Aanenson: No. It would still have to go through the building permit process. Be inspected like a
regular one. Again, the goal was, there’s no limit to the square footage of a home so you can
have one large home. In this circumstance they have identified a home and want to have an
ancillary one instead of saying you are going to get two lots. We want to cap those so it doesn’t
become two separate lots as Ms. Al-Jaff indicated. But it has to go through the same rigorous. It
would have to meet as Sharmeen indicated there would have to be sewer and water which would
be through the well and septic and in addition, all of the building codes.
Von Oven: I understand that it was the request of the applicant to make that accessory dwelling
unit a maximum of 1600 feet. I’m still confused on the max of two bedrooms. Sharmeen, I know
you said part of the reason for this was to ensure that it doesn’t turn into a single-family home.
Given that that’s covered in other areas, I’m going to make the assumption that the actual single-
family home to be built can has as many bedrooms as it wants, right?
Al-Jaff: That’s correct. As long as the number of bedrooms can be served via public or private
utilities.
Von Oven: Okay. I guess then my question ends up being this: Between these two structures, is
there a maximum number of bedrooms that the proposed sewage system will be able to handle,
and is that governed through some sort of inspection process?
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
30
Aanenson: Correct. It is. They have to demonstrate that and it’s actually based on bedroom space
to your septic and well. Let’s just go back to the two separate dwellings again. If you have
enough to make it two complete homes then you have different traffic patterns, different use of
the property. So when it’s intended to be ancillary and regulated by the homeowner, it’s a
different feel than two separate homes with cars coming and going, two sets of trash being
hauled up to the end of the driveway, that sort of thing. We are looking, it says one structure with
something ancillary that is related to that principal structure.
Von Oven: Thank you.
Skistad: I guess I’m just going to ask a future question then. So if, let’s say that someone in the
future, a new person has purchased the property. Perhaps they will probably have to install a new
septic system so they won’t be able to increase the bedroom. The land won’t be able to have a
three-bedroom instead of a two-bedroom unit unless they come back to us and ask for a
variance?
Aanenson: Yes. Or amend the PUD. Typically, if you add additional bedrooms, you have to
demonstrate that you have sewer capacity. Could they oversize it to begin with? That’s potential.
I’m not sure. That is something that would have to be looked at at the time when they are putting
together the system. Any changes to the plan as laid out would have to come back. Any
modifications, which would have to come back as a PUD amendment. That’s why the PUD was
put together. To regulate all that’s being used.
Skistad: I understand what you are doing. I understand what you are saying, but let’s say that
they have an office and it just naturally becomes a bedroom at some point. I don’t know if there
is a better way to write that. Because the goal is to just make sure obviously that we don’t
overcome the sewage capacity because we don’t obviously want to spill anything into Lake
Lucy.
Weick: There is a septic field sizing attachment which is really long actually. They specify, and
there’s two different options. They specify seven bedrooms and then they sort of explain how
they can. It really comes down to the bedrooms. They explain how they can appropriately fit one
or two mounds or septic systems to support the seven bedrooms where they can build one for the
main house and one for the accessory structure. But there’s only so much space to be able to
have the runout fields and all that kind of stuff. I think what they are saying is it sounds like they
want that primary structure to be five bedrooms and honestly, I think all that’s left is just size.
Aanenson: Capacity.
Weick: Thank you. That’s a better word. Capacity. Is two bedroom. I think they are fully limited
by septic and nothing else.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
31
Aanenson: So if one of the bedrooms in the accessory building was being used as an office,
that’s fine. It wouldn’t affect.
Weick: Right.
Skistad: Okay.
Weick: Great. These are great questions. It’s awesome. It’s really important.
Reeder: Under normal regulations, is it possible for this accessory dwelling unit to be rented out
or would that be illegal? How would be control that?
Al-Jaff: They can rent it out but it cannot be a short-term lease. It has to be three months or more.
Reeder: So we essentially have two residences on one lot?
Al-Jaff: Correct. Which is permitted under a planned unit development.
Aanenson: It was proposed, it was originally intended to be an accessory structure for a
grandparent. Could it be used for something else? We always as planners try to anticipate
something in the future. So if you’re doing a weekly rental, you have a different capacity
whether there is two bedrooms. How it’s being used is different that someone who might rent it
for the summer or something like that. That’s how we looked at that it. Looking at having a
three-month as opposed to renting it out by the week.
Reeder: So there’s no requirement that the accessory building, the person that lives in that
building, be related to the main building? It can be anybody? It seems like we had one of these
accessory buildings I think about two years ago that we approved and I can’t remember what the
requirements were.
Aanenson: Right now we have a variance requirement that you can finish your basement off and
have someone living with you but that has to be related to you. It’s a different requirement. It is
certainly a requirement that you could put on this property. That’s certainly under the PUD. You
could say that the person living there has to be related. That’s an option. We gave a different
option.
Reeder: What is the intent of the proposed property owner?
Aanenson: I would have to ask the applicant to speak to that.
Skistad: I’m just going to look at this from a lease perspective again. I’m just going to assume
that, let’s just say it sold and they want to lease this secondary area. I’m going to assume that you
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
32
could do a typical lease which runs 12 months and then possibly it turns into a month-to-month
lease but that wouldn’t cause any problems here because they would have met the minimum.
Aanenson: Yes.
Skistad: Okay.
Weick: Great. More thoughts or questions on this one for Sharmeen? Just holler if I’m rushing
you as commission members. If you need some more time to read or think, just holler at me. I
don’t want to push anybody.
Von Oven: Hey, Commissioner Weick!
Weick: Yes.
Von Oven: I’m hollering at you. I’ve been sitting here trying to figure out how to ask this
question so it’s not going to come out right. At the very beginning, Commissioner McGonagill
talked about the bridge and it was very clear to me that an existing bullet, there is not an existing
bullet in the PUD that says, “Hey, this bridge has to be safe.” So I think my question is more
procedural. For us as a Planning Commission tonight, moving forward with this. If there are
those of us who would like to see a bullet point in that PUD, is that be an amendment possibly?
Is that a motion? Is that something that can be done after the fact? How does that work?
Aanenson: I would recommend that you make it, if someone wanted that in the conditions, that
you make that an amendment to the motion, that that be added.
Von Oven: Okay.
McGonagill: Following up to his question procedurally, does that happen after the first motion or
can you make an amendment before then?
Aanenson: You can make it as part of your original motion.
Weick: As part of the motion.
Aanenson: So what we’re checking on is the legality. It is a lot of record so they could build on
that lot without going through this process and you would have the same jurisdiction. But we’ll
follow up on that and have that answer if you want to amend that motion and get that clarified
when it goes up to city council.
McGonagill: Very good.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
33
Von Oven: Got it. Okay, sorry. I’m going to repeat what you just said to make sure I understood
it. If the applicant was just going to build a single-family home, they could just do that in its
current state?
Aanenson: Yes.
Von Oven: The reason why our concerns about the bridge holding an ambulance could be met is
because they are asking for this variance. I’m sorry, this rezoning, in which case we have the
ability to amend what is being proposed right now as the PUD?
Aanenson: That is correct.
Von Oven: I think I’m getting this thing down. Thank you.
Weick: You’re killing it. But a motion is premature at this point because we have not heard from
the applicant or the public hearing. So unless there are other… I will move at this point to, and
we certainly have an opportunity to follow up with staff as questions come up. I would invite the
applicant if they are on the Zoom call to make any comments or a presentation.
Wicka: I am and thank you very much.
Weick: Welcome!
Wicka: Thank you. And thank you to all the members of the Planning Commission for
considering this rezoning request. My name is John Wicka. I live at 2547 Bridle Creek Trail in
Chanhassen with my wife and five daughters. We’ve been, I don’t know if this qualifies, in
Chanhassen as long-time residents but we’ve been here is this house for 17 years. At least we’re
not newcomers. I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you all and offer you a little
additional information and commentary for your consideration as you consider this rezoning
request. The first time my wife and I experienced the island was in June of 2018, just over two
years ago and it was just recently put up for sale by Al and Mary Weingart who live on the
adjacent property and still do. It was their dream to build a home out on the island. They’re the
ones that oversaw the building of the bridge so I’ll come back around and talk more about that
and I will be happy to answer any questions pertaining to the bridge. I understand there is a lot of
concern in and around that. When we first experienced the island in June of 2018 I think our first
reaction was I guess we couldn’t believe it was available. It’s sizeable. It has some acreage to it.
It’s unique. It’s an island but it’s even better than an island. It’s an island with a pre-existing,
very capable bridge that is intended to support fire trucks and construction trucks and so forth. It
was really an ideal find for us. If you’ve had a chance to consider the topography map there, the
top graphic map, it’s very interesting topography. It’s flat around many of the edges but it has
this elevation in the center of the island and there are bluffs there. There are bluff setbacks there.
There are wetland setbacks so there is a lot of dynamic things happening on the island but it is
indisputably breathtakingly beautiful. We were excited about the opportunity because of the size
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
34
of the property and it had been our desire for several years to build a home for my mother who is
now 86 years old near us. My dad died 21 years ago so this has been kind of something that
we’ve been thinking of considering and planning for some time now. My mother is fiercely
independent but she is 86 years old. She now really relishes or welcomes or is excited about the
opportunity to maintain her independence but still have us just a moment’s notice away. So this
was one of the big motivations for us to purchase the island because we thought it gave us the
elbow room, if you will, to build a separate structure for her. Just two months later we purchased
the island and at that time the first order of business was to eradicate the buckthorn. I think about
it as kind of freeing the island because the buckthorn had a choke hold on the island. I think it
was a neighbor’s comment that Sharmeen referenced a few moments ago that they were glad that
we took out the buckthorn. I worked with Jill Sinclair. Walked the island with her over two years
ago. She made some recommendations on some experts that could remove the buckthorn and
treat it. It transformed the island back to its natural state. So it was very important for us to get
the balance back to the island, and it doesn’t surprise me that the neighbors were in favor or
positively affected by that because they all look at the island. It makes the view of the island so
much more interesting because you get depth. It looked like an overgrown bush. You couldn’t
see into it. You couldn’t penetrate it. Frankly, when you were on the island you couldn’t see the
water from the interior of the island. So that was important to us. I don’t know what your
experience is with buckthorn but I didn’t realize they grew into trees. Sizeable, 14-inch diameter
type size trees. So it was not a small undertaking. At the same time in August of 2018 when we
undertook the eradication of the buckthorn, we ran off full speed with an architect to build our
dream home and with an attached, if you will, living structure for my mother. We intended to do
that via connecting it by a skyway or a tunnel so that we met all of the city requirements. But, the
things that make the island beautiful and unique and magical also make it a very challenging
piece of property to build on. Again, there are bluffs. There are bluff setbacks. There are wetland
setbacks. There was only one sensible place to put the septic system. There is a lot of elevation in
the interior of the island so getting the grading right to get up that high is tricky business. Sadly,
about five months later after spending a fair amount of money in architectural fees, we bagged it.
We were demoralized. We couldn’t get it right. It was like putting together a puzzle and we
couldn’t seem to kind of crack the code to make it work, so we stopped. We let several months
go by. I did reach out to city staff and I had all sorts’ questions about variances and every time
we turned around we hit another complication and we just couldn’t get it to work. But after kind
of a cooling off period we took a second attempt at it but we stopped again because it just was
overwhelming. It was an emotionally overwhelming, and I know you may be thinking how can it
be so hard when there is that much space to work with? But again, all of the complexities layered
on top of each other make it a very challenging task. So I circled back with city staff another
time looking for more out-of-the-box solutions, if you will, and that’s when I discovered that
single-family residential was an option. So, we started looking at that and we realized that that
was a really big undertaking. As Sharmeen, the road coming down that services the island from
Lake Lucy Road would have to be widened considerably. There were, I think, nine or more
agencies that were involved in the original construction of the road and bridge in 1998-1999 and
so to bring sewer and water down, the only way we could get our head around that would be to
involve a developer and go through the whole subdividing of the island and that’s not what we
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
35
had in mind for the island. We were enamored with natural beauty of it and this felt like we
would have to get very creative and create lots and the size of the roads and the cul-de-sacs and
the infrastructure just made this a very undesirable option. That led us to the option to consider
the PUD which, the way I understand it, is it provides some flexibility in creating exceptions that
we are talking about here today but also requires, if you will, something in return, meeting the
higher standards, sprinklers, or the turnarounds for the fire trucks, the higher building standards.
We intend to build a green, being environmentally green with solar and geothermal and high
building standards, and high-quality windows, and recapturing rainwater for reuse, that type of
thing. So we intend to meet the higher standards in the conditions put upon the PUD request.
This seemed to be a much more sensible solution, not only for what we were trying to
accomplish, but really for all parties involved. The impact on the island is much lower than going
for single-family residential. It’s better for the community, for the neighborhood, for the island,
and so it seemed to be much more sensible and while I suppose the single-family residential is an
option, it’s not a very good option. We would like to preserve the integrity of the island, not only
now but into the future and we think this is a way to do that. I only have a few more comments if
you can bear with me for just a few more moments. I did have a chance to meet with the city and
county experts on some of the challenges that the island offers. I was able to walk the island with
Fire Chief Don Johnson… (coughing). I just got over COVID so pardon the cough here.
Weick: Thanks.
Wicka: I’m in the clear now but I can tell it is still affecting my throat. I was able to walk the
island with Fire Chief Don Johnson and he understandably had some concerns, some of them
that you stated. That’s why we had gone through, I went back to the bridge builder and designers
and it is and always was designed to carry not only construction trucks, but emergency vehicles
and fire trucks. I’ll come back and be happy to answer questions about that. We also
incorporated turnarounds for the fire trucks. I heard some of that commentary and concerns in
the previous PUD that you were discussing. So we have accounted for that. I also was able to
have a Zoom meeting with Terry Jeffery, Watershed Planning Manager with Bluff Creek. I also
learned quite a lot in my conversation with Terry and was very pleased because I know this is
high on everybody’s list, keeping the integrity of the water and the cleanliness of the lake. That’s
certainly a concern of ours. I was very pleased in that conversation with Terry. He was very
matter of fact. He knew exactly which five concerns he had that we needed to meet and we went
through them together. I won’t put words in his mouth because I’m sure he’s commented on his
own, but by the end of the conversation I think we, I think I can say both agreed that the island
actually handled all of these requirements very well, actually. We didn’t have any concerns
there. I’ll trust that he gave his own report and that it’s consistent with what I’m saying. The
driveway, the purpose for that driveway that runs further to the south that forks off was to service
the accessory dwelling unit. The reason for that, and I have a little bit of heartburn giving that up
I’ll be honest with you, but I’m willing to make that a condition is because it’s flat. If you can
see those topographic lines there it doesn’t climb the elevated area of the island. It runs along the
south side and is largely flat. That was intended to make it easier for my aging mother to be able
to go out and walk and get outside, frankly, and enjoy the island. But, as I said, we have agreed
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
36
to make it a condition. There were multiple comments on that assuming that’s still desirable we
have agreed to have the one driveway service both dwelling units. My final comment is I did
initiate some outreach to the Lake Lucy Homeowners Association and that consisted of all lot
owners on Lake Lucy and they are the ones most impacted by any development that we do on the
island, whatsoever. So I did initiate some outreach there. Because of COVID we weren’t able to
organize any in-person meeting, but I did encourage them all to bring any questions or concerns
with me. I did hear from three of the parties. I was able to answer their questions. Most of them
were curiosities and clarification. I believe I have all of their support, at least I’m not aware of
anyone that doesn’t support it. I was able to provide them with clearer maps than were available
on the city website so they could get a better understand of what we were after. So, I feel pretty
good about engaging the neighborhood and as I said I heard from some of them but I think it was
all positive interaction and I hope and I believe that I have their support. Again, I would like to
thank you all for your consideration here and I’m happy to take any questions you might have.
Weick: Wow. Thank you so much. That offers a lot of color and clarity on what you’re trying to
do and thank you for hanging in there with your cough and giving us that. That’s really helpful. I
will open it up though. I know there were several questions that commission members had raised
that I know would have been properly answered by you. I don’t know if those have already been
answered but we’ll open it up to the commission members to either ask follow ups on those
questions or ask new questions.
McGonagill: Thank you for a very good presentation and walking us through this. You walked
with the Fire Chief so I would assume, talk to us about the bridge that there is a certain design
standard the bridge has been designed to and it was for construction equipment and for fire
equipment and it is your intention to maintain that standard in the bridge going forward?
Wicka: Yes it is Commissioner and thank you for the opportunity to come back around and
address the concerns around the bridge. Fire Chief Johnson was, we had quite a lot of back and
forth via email after our meeting and he was able to provide me with the specifications on the
two, I believe they are the two largest trucks, but they are also the two primary trucks that would
service the island in case of a fire. I did share that with the company that built the bridge. They
went to their engineers and shared with me that the bridge was designed and built to support
trucks of that size. That answers I think the question in terms of when it was originally built. I
think your question is a fair one in terms of ongoing upkeep and maintenance and as long as it’s
a reasonable interval so that, because I am sure there are cost implications that come with this,
but as long as there is a reasonable interval to recertify it with an engineering firm that it is still
capable or operating as designed, still capable of supporting those trucks, I would be happy to
incorporate that.
McGonagill: Thank you. I appreciate that because just like you I’ve got some elderly parents and
when I call emergency services I want them to be able to get to them, and it’s very true to you,
too. On the design, one of the questions I have for you is, I didn’t see it. I may have missed it
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
37
because I just probably missed it. There’s a two-story guest house and there is also an accessory
structure at the end of the first driveway. Is that a garage?
Wicka: I think it’s ultimately going to be a multi-purpose structure. It’s put there because as
someone was pointing out earlier we’re going to be responsible for a lot of private driveway
here. So I’m envisioning a plow in there and probably other utility-type tools and needs for the
island. We put it there so it was kind of closer to the access point of the island and also a little bit
out of the way although we intend to design it such that it’s equally attractive to the rest of the
structures on the island.
McGonagill: Thank you. That’s all I had Mr. Chairman.
Weick: Great. Thank you. Any other questions for our applicant?
Skistad: I don’t have a question I just have a, I guess a statement. My goal, my questions about
the limitations of the bedrooms was just to make sure we weren’t putting a limitation over the
property unnecessarily. That was the only goal with that. I think it sounds like a great project so
I’m for it so that was the reason for reason for those questions.
Weick: Great. Thank you.
Wicka: And thank you Commissioner for that thought. I appreciate it. When it was suggested
that it be limited we were agreeable to it because as previously stated the concept is just a space
for my mother and perhaps a caregiver. So thank you.
Aanenson: Mr. Chair, if you want to open the public hearing.
Weick: I will. I was just giving people a second in case they wanted to speak. I always feel like
I’m talking over somebody. Thank you Commission members and thank you for, again, a really
thorough and honest appraisal of how you are going to use that beautiful piece of property so
thank you very much for joining us. At this time I will open the public hearing portion. If anyone
would like to come forward and speak and opinion on this matter may do so now. Sharmeen, you
already. I might be mixing my cases but I think you already summarized the emails for us, right?
Al-Jaff: I did.
Weick: Yes. Thank you. And those will be in the record and the telephone number has been up
on the screen for a little bit. Would you like to? Yeah, absolutely. So we have someone joining
us here in chambers. Again, as you’ve heard, just please speak very loudly into the microphone.
Frerichs: Thank you very much. I’m Roger Frerichs and we are neighbors on Lakeway Drive, the
street right over next to it. I didn’t come here with any particular speech in mind but I came with
less knowledge and so after hearing the discussion of the owner, it sounds like he’s trying to
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
38
maintain the beauty that that island has and that’s why I think it should be something that we
should favor.
Weick: Thank you so much. I’m happy to agree. I do think it’sa , considering the alternatives, I
think it’s certainly a good use. Any phone calls?
Al-Jaff: I haven’t heard so far. None.
Weick: None. With that and with no one else here in chambers I will close the public hearing
portion of tonight’s matter and open to commissioner comment, discussion, and motion. And I
pre-empted a little bit there. It is getting late, I have to admit and I’m maybe getting a little
dreary. I offered my opinion there a little bit too soon but I am certainly in favor of this PUD. I
imagine that if there is concern from neighbors or public like myself, I was envisioning a typical
development that we look at where they come in and they grade it down, they clear out the trees,
they build four houses and four docks. You know what I mean? That option I think would be
disappointing at least to me and I imagine for some of the local residents as well. I would
imagine once seeing and hearing these plans it puts to rest those concerns of dramatically
changing the view of that island which I just don’t think will happen. I am certainly strongly in
favor of the PUD in this instance, and if things want to be added to it, we can certainly do that as
part of the motion.
McGonagill: Mr. Chairman, I agree with you to stick with the other, just to the small amendment
we talked about on the bridge just for emergency access. I’m also there with you because, let’s
face it. This is privately owned. It’s property that someone has owned and purposed. They have
the constitutional right to develop it and they worked through the process and I think it’s about as
nice as one could imagine if he carries out the plans that he’s talking about it would be great. So,
yes I think it’s a good use of the property for a very unusual one.
Weick: Yeah. Sure.
McGonagill: It will add a lot to look of the lake in many ways. But I will be proposing the, some
amendment on the, just so the bridge remains within a certain level of usability by fire, by
emergency equipment. I’ll say it that way. And I’ll let staff sort out what it needs to look like.
Weick: Fair enough. How do the rest of you feel?
Von Oven: And therein lies the experience of Commissioner McGonagill because I’m sitting
here racking my brain trying to figure out how we amend this thing on the fly and get that all in
and he knows he can just rely on staff to do that. I’m in the same boat. It’s funny. One, what a
fantastic project both from the standpoint of I’m super jealous of what you are doing. This is
beautiful and what a great project. Two, it’s probably the first project that’s come through where
as a commissioner I have zero fear of us setting some sort of a precedent here because we’re
never going to see another property like this so, variance away here. It’s great. The third part is
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
39
that I’m not at all worried about the applicant and his any lack of letting that bridge deteriorate.
He will have every reason in the world to ensure that emergency personnel can access that
property. The reason that I will support, however Commissioner McGonagill gets this done, is
for the next owner. For that owner down the road who might be renting the property out, which I
am also in favor of for long term and I’m glad that provision was put it there, to just ensure that
we don’t end up with a situation many, many years from now where someone is renting out the
property to someone else and they’re letting the bridge deteriorate. I do not want to put any
undue burden on Mr. Wicka for yearly engineering reviews of the bridge. I just don’t know how
that works. But finding a way where we ensure that for the long term that very unique structure
maintains safety standards without putting the undue burden on Mr. Wicka is what I would be in
favor of.
McGonagill: I support you in that regard. Five daughters, he’ll have 15 grandchildren pretty soon
and he will want emergency personnel in there.
Weick: Great. Those are great thoughts and great viewpoints. Go ahead.
McGonagill: Are you ready for a recommendation?
Weick: Sure.
McGonagill moved, Skistad seconded for the Planning Commission to recommend
approval of rezoning of the property located at 1601 Lake Lucy Road with an approximate
area of 9.03 acres from Rural Residential to Planned Unit Development-Residential
incorporating the attached standards and adoption of the Findings of Fact and Decision
recommendation, including an amendment that staff will work with the property owner to
develop appropriate safety standards for the continued maintenance of the bridge. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0.
Weick: Thank you, Commissioner McGonagill. We have a valid motion. Do we have a second?
Skistad: I’ll second that.
Weick: Thank you Commissioner Skistad. We have a motion and a second. Any last minute
comment? Hearing none we will have a roll call vote and I will start with Commissioner Randall,
if he returned.
Weick: Again, thank you to everyone who prepared and good luck with the property and I think
this item does go to City Council.
Aanenson: Correct. Actually it goes on the 14th.
Chanhassen Planning Commission – December 1, 2020
40
Weick: December 14th. If you are following this item at home, December 14th in front of City
Council. Again, thank you to everybody and that is our final public hearing for this evening.
Would someone please note the Commission minutes from November 17th. Our last meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commissioner Skistad noted the verbatim and summary
Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated November 17, 2020 as presented.
Weick: Thank you, Commissioner Skistad. Kate, are there any administrative presentations?
Aanenson: No. We did not have any City Council updates but I just wanted to apprise you of
something. I did receive an email from someone on 63rd Street, Mr. Meyer, who said he wasn’t
able to, he didn’t see the number flash across the screen. That was on the second item. So he
gave me his phone number and I will contact him tomorrow and get his concerns because that
item goes on the January City Council meeting. We’ll make sure that those concerns are
addressed and he may have an opportunity to speak so I’ll follow up on that. I appreciate the fact
that he emailed me right away and could catch it. I just wanted to let you know that this is our
last meeting of the year so we will be gathering January 4th and actually, we have four items that
will be in for sure. We have some other ones contemplating be we try to hold back once we get
to four just because it ends up being a long meeting. These were very different items, all of them,
and had a lot of complex issues. I appreciate your due diligence on that. So yes we will have a
meeting on January 4th. With that, that’s all I had Mr. Chair.
Weick: All right. I don’t have anything other than to say I thoroughly enjoy, I was going to say
love, but maybe that’s too strong. But I thoroughly enjoy working with this Planning
Commission. You guys are a lot of fun and make a very difficult Zoom-meeting effort very
pleasurable so thank you all of the Commission members. You guys are prepared and funny and
it’s awesome, so thank you. With that I would entertain a motion to adjourn,
Skistad moved to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Planning Commission meeting was adjourned at
10:00 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Kim Meuwissen