1986 01 08
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PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 8, 1986
vice Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Steven Emmings, Robert Siegel, Ladd Conrad, Howard Noziska and
Mike Thompson.
MEMBERS ABSENT
Bill Ryan
STAFF PRESENT
Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner and Vicki Churchill, Secretary.
Organizational Items:
a. Election of Chairman
b. Election of Vice-Chairman
c. Approval of By-Laws
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, to table this item until
after the public hearings. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
PUBLIC HEARING
Sign Variance Request for an area identification sign on property
zoned P-l, Planned Residential Development and located in the
Near Mountain Development, Lundgren Brothers, applicant.
Public Present
Peter Pflaum
Lundgren Brothers
Olsen stated that on August 17, 1983, Lundgren Brothers received
a sign permit for a temporary real estate sign to be located on
Highway 101 at Townline Road. She also stated that on October
17, 1983, the City Council approved a sign variance for an 80
square foot temporary identification sign at the northwest corner
of Highway 101 and Pleasant View Road. She stated that the
applicant is now requesting a variance to construct a second tem-
porary identification sign at the southwest corner of Townline
Road and Vine Hill Road. She stated that that applicant is
requesting a 55 square foot sign and the maximum is 24 square
feet. She also stated that the Sign Ordinance only allows one
temporary identification sign per construction site. She stated
that the existing sign advertises both phases of the development,
Chestnut Ridge and Trapper's Pass. She noted that the applicant
is proposing to advertise only Trapper's Pass and the sign will
be located on the south end of the Near Mountain development.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 8, 1986
Page 2
Olsen stated that the purpose of the Sign Ordinance is to mini-
mize the impact of signs throughout the city. She stated that
the applicant already has one allowable temporary identification
sign advertising both phases for the Near Mountain construction
site and staff is recommending denial of the sign variance.
Peter Pflaum stated that he knows the regulations of the Sign
Ordinance, however, he stated that they are asking for the sign
variance because the property is very large and they have limited
exposure from the site. He stated that some of the property is
in the Shorewood area and they wanted to advertise that area of
the development. He stated that the most important aspect of
selling the development is advertising. He felt that Vine Hill
Road was well traveled and that it is the only other major access
to the project. He felt that there would not be a lot of traffic
created from the sign but felt that it would inform people that
they have a project in that area.
M. Thompson asked what the requirements were for the present
sign.
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Olsen stated that the sign will need to be removed when construc-
tion is completed.
Siegel asked the applicant why he was going over the size
requirement.
Peter Pflaum stated that because Vine Hill Road is a dangerous
road, they felt that if the sign was larger and more legible it
would be less of a hazard by people not slowing down to read it.
He also stated that in the winter, between the snow drifts and
plows on that road, if the sign was smaller, it would be covered.
Siegel felt that the applicant should stay within the size
requirement of the ordinance because people would be slowing down
for the curve anyway.
Conrad felt that the Sign Ordinance was put into place for a
reason. He felt that because of the large site maybe the ordi-
nance is not fair and felt that maybe the ordinance should be
amended to allow two temporary identification signs. He felt
that the sign size should be within the restrictions of the ordi-
nance.
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M. Thompson felt that there should be some consideration based on
the size of the development and road exposure. He also stated
that it is to our benefit to help the developers to promote our
community. He stated that it is also on their property.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 8, 1986
Page 3
Emmings entered the meeting at this point.
Emmings stated that after reviewing this request from the last
meeting in which it was tabled, his feeling was that if there was
any reasonable need, he was going to be in favor of it and he
missed the discussion. He felt that if the sign was temporary
until they completed the project he felt that was reasonable.
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, to recommend approval of
the proposal as presented by the applicant because of the size of
the property, the size of the project, the sign is on-site and
because of the road exposure of the site.
Conrad asked M. Thompson if he felt the size was appropriate?
M. Thompson stated yes.
M. Thompson, Noziska, Siegel and Emmings voted in favor and the
motion carried.
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Conrad was opposed. He stated that he primarily voted against
the size of the sign and felt that it should be within the limits
of the ordinance.
PUBLIC HEARING
Sign Variance Request to allow an off premise institutional sign,
Minnewashta Church, applicant.
Public Present
Jeremy Cone
Representing the Minnewashta Church
Olsen stated that the Minnewashta Church is located at 26715 62nd
Street and the applicant is requesting an off premise institu-
tional sign to be located on Gary Carlson's property at Hwy. 7
and Church Road. She stated that this location would allow the
sign to be seen by traffic traveling on Hwy. 7 and to direct
traffic one block north to 62nd street. She stated that the sign
is proposed to be 8 square feet in size and will be constructed
of treated wood. She stated that the Sign Ordinance allows one
on-premise institutional sign for an institution and prohibits
any off-premises advertising signs. She stated that staff is
recommending denial of the sign variance request because granting
of the variance would be contrary to the spirit and intent of the
Sign Ordinance.
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M. Thompson asked the applicant why they are asking for an 8
square foot sign.
Jeremy Cone stated that the sign was designed to comply with
state regulations.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 8, 1986
Page 4
Conrad asked if there would be a significant hardship they would
suffer if the request was denied.
Jeremy Cone stated that they had a sign about 8 years ago,
however, it was taken down because it was in the Hwy. 7 right-of-
way. He stated that in the last three to four years they have
had a regrowth and they were getting more people and they felt
that with a sign they would probably be able to draw more. He
stated that with a small church it is sometimes hard to get by to
make ends meet. He felt that if they had a sign, it would let new
people in the area know where they are located. He stated that
they have a lot of people calling them who do not know where the
church is located.
Emmings stated that he cannot see how the sign will fill his
objectives. He stated that Hwy. 7 along there is a treacherous
piece of highway and there are a lot of signs along there now.
He stated that the fire station is across the street and there
are a lot merge signs there. He did not feel people would choose
a church from a sign along the side of the road and suggested
that they advertise in the newspaper. He stated that he supports
staff on this request.
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Siegel stated that he would support the sign because of the
nature of request and the minimal amount of signage asked for.
He felt they would be contradictory in promoting a variance for a
development and not for a church.
Noziska stated that if the church feels it will help their
attendance and because the small size of the sign, he had no
objections.
M. Thompson stated that the difference between this request and
the development request is that it is an off site sign. He
stated that 8 square feet is not bad. He felt that maybe the
sign should be issued on a temporary basis and be reviewed every
two years.
Conrad stated that he would prefer to see the ordinance amended.
He stated that he has no problems with the request; however, he
felt it would set a precedence. He stated that a church or
religous group should be placed in a different category than
institutional. He stated that it is not offensive or cluttered
but the Sign Ordinance prohibits this.
M. Thompson stated that Hwy. 7 was cluttered with signs but asked
if they were not on the other side of the highway?
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Emmings stated that there is a lot of signs on the left side and
the directional signs are on the right side but there are a lot
of things to look at. He stated that he does not think this is
inconsistent with the request they just approved because one is
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 8, 1986
Page 5
temporary and one is permanent. He stated that he could agree
with what Mike suggested.
Siegel felt that the sign would not be an eye sore or disruptive
or that it would infringe on the area.
Noziska moved, seconded by M. Thompson, to recommend approval of
the Sign variance Request #85-15 with the provision that it be
reviewed in two years and that it shall not be placed closer
than 10 feet to any street right-of-way.
Noziska, M. Thompson, Siegel and Emmings voted in favor. Conrad
was opposed. Motion carried.
Conrad stated that he would prefer to see the ordinance amended
by placing churches in a different category.
Sign Variance Request for one area identification sign of
160 square feet at the intersection of Highway 5 and Park
Drive, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park, Opus Corporation,
applicant.
This item was cancelled.
Organizational Items:
a. Election of Chairman
Noziska moved, seconded by M. Thompson, to re-elect Bill Ryan as
Chairman for another term. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
b. Election of Vice-Chairman
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, to re-elect Ladd Conrad
as Vice Chairman for another term. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
c. Approval of By-Laws
Noziska moved to approve the By-Laws with a minor change to the
percentage of attendance. He felt that the percentage of atten-
dance should be changed to 60% instead of 75%. After discussion
of the change, Noziska withdrew the motion.
Noziska moved, seconded by M. Thompson, to approve the By-Laws as
presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Planning commission Minutes
January 8, 1986
Page 6
M. Thompson, who represents the Planning Commission at the HRA
meetings, stated that he wanted someone else to take the posi-
tion. Robert Siegel stated that he would take the responsibility
for the 1986 year.
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, to elect Robert siegel as
the HRA representative. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Approval of Minutes
Siegel moved, seconded by M. Thompson, to approve the December
11, 1985 minutes as written. M. Thompson, Conrad and Siegel
voted in favor. Emmings and Noziska abstained. Motion carried.
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Conrad, to approve the December
18, 1985 minutes as written. M. Thompson, Conrad and Emmings
voted in favor. Noziska and Siegel abstained. Motion carried.
Open Discussion
Duane Barth was present at the meeting to informally discuss with
the Commissioners his sketch plan for a subdivision with a
recreational beachlot. His main concern is with the beachlot.
He is proposing a dock with 17 slips, one for each lot proposed.
The Commissioners stated that they would oppose the dock with 17
slips which is regulated by the Beachlot Ordinance. They stated
that other than the dock issue, his plan looked good. The
Commissioners suggested that the applicant may want to take this
to the City Council and get their reaction; however, they would
uphold the existing ordinance.
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska to adjourn the meeting at
9:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Barbara Dacy
City Planner
Prepared by Vicki Churchill