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1977 07 27 - e - REGULAR PLANNING COMNISSION }'1EETING JULY 27, 1977 In the absence ofothe Chairman and Vice Chairman, Hud Hollenback called the meeting to order at 7:45 p.m. with the following members present: Walter Thompson, Roman Roos, and Jerry Neher. Dick Dutcher came at8:10 p.m. L3s Bridger and i"".\al MacAlpine were absent. MINUTES: The 0 Park and Recreation Commission - Planning Commission. tour planned for July 30 has been post poned to later this fall. Amend the July l}', 1977, Planning Commission minutes by adding the following under CONDITIONAL USE PEro~T -; MIKE SORENSON: Hud Hollenback _ One concern I voiced last time and I am curious about, I personally would like to see more consideration given to a little more western or early motif. Harry (Pauly) is talking about going to the expense of an office building with that kind of architecture and the veterinary building which is right next to it, I just wonder where the CBD cuts off. \lIe are going to have a mixture somewhere, which is all right but I just \vonder why that wasn It a consideration. Walter Thompson - The adjoining building is a steel building~' The front of, it is dressed up but the sides and rear are strictly plain construction. ^ .. Bruce Pankonin _ The ve terinary building is zoned indus trial. The arc hi tectural controls 9f tp,e CBD only apply to the central business district. This piece of property ~s in the CED. It is the only lot south of the railroad tracks in the CBD. I think personally the architectural design of ;the CBD is most appropriate to augment and underscore what ive have but someplace you are going to have to make the change. It seems to me that the railroad' tracks probably is a good enough place as any to make }iha t change. ' Amend the July 13, 1977, Planning Commission minutes by a.dding" the fo 1101.n.ng under LOTUS LAKE BOAT ACCESS AND NEIGHBORHOOD PARK: ' L3s Bridger _ One problem vnth the pool is thatO the water isnlt as clear as You would find in a standard pool. Secondly,vJith a sand bottom it is very difficult to see a swirruner if he should be in trouble. Jerry Neher moved to approve the July 13, 1977, Planning 'Commission minutes as amended. Motion seconded by ~ialter Thompson and unanimously approved. SANTA FE TRAIL TRAFFIC ,PROBLEM: The Council' has been approached by persons; living along Santa Fe Trail asking that something be done to eliminate the amoUnt of traffic and excessive speed on the street. Bill Brezinsky gave a report. Traffic counts were taken on Santa ~e Trail, at the intersection of Iroquois and Del Rio Drive, and at Del Rio Drive and Laredo Drive. to determine if there was a problem. On Santa Fe Trail the average is about 474 cars a day. There are 24 homes along Santa Fe <Trail and the, two cul-de- sacs which would generate 240 trips a day. The traffic count on Iroquois was 233 trips per day. The traffic count on De~ Rio w~s 174. There are 28 homes on Del Rio which would generate 280 trlp~. Th~s conf~rms that a lot ofcar~ are using Santa Fe Trail. The engineer sug~ested two ways to keep the traff~c off of Santa Fe Trail; 1) delete a portion of Iroquois and put in a cul-de-sac, or 2) put in a cul-de-sac at the west end of. santa Fe Trail., The latt~r suggestion would disrupt front yards and might put the traffic onto ~iest 76th Street. Walter Thompson _ I am wondering if some kind of P.R. program could be established, if itls no more than handbills, into that area north of there requesting that that not be used as a short cut. It probably wouldn It do any good but I off~r it as a suggestion. rn: reviewing the City Council ~inutes I se: where ov:r m the Bluff Creek area there is consideration being g~ven to putt~ng bumps ~n the Planning Commission Meeting July 27, 1977 -2- road. I am ~vondering if possibly that isn't a deterrent to that sort of operation. I. rather think that.s a good idea if you put in enough of them. BJ.l1 Brezinsky - We have done quite a bit of research latel;y, and have gotten papers - from various cities and various studies on speed bumps. The 6ities' that have them .., don't like them. They found that they are not that effective. Here where we plow the ro ads in the winter, they usually disappear every winter and have to be replaced in the spring. Another thing is that they do disrupt the drainage. Jerry Neher - Isn't there a certain amount of liability if an accident would occur on one of those? Bill Brezinsky - Hy feeling is if you put speed bumps on one street you are going to end up putting them on all the streets in the city and studies have shown the;re are problems. The cities that have them wish they didn't and are removing them. Dips in the road are easier to maintain but those have to be designed in the road originally usually at the intersections and along gutter lines. If you put them in later then you have a drainage problem. Dick Dutcher came at. this point. Jerry Neher - A one-way street on both Iroquois and Santa Fe would eliminate half the traffic. Charles Coffee - I live on Santa Fe Trail. If you block off Iroquois I don't feel it will solve our problem. Our problem is that cars go by to fast. If we could block off the end of Santa Fe Trail on the west end I think that would solve one of our problems. Also, if you didn't want to do that if you put in speed bumps. I know we have speed bumps at our school and I have talked to the custodian and there is no problem with these things. I have talked to a couple of fellows who work for the City and they say speed bumps wouldn't be a problem. This would slow traffic down. Even 30 HPH is to rapid driving by homes when they are close to the road. The rest of the streets have curvy, windy ways and they don't have - that problem with 30, 40, 50 HPH.We have quite an unusual situation there and .., it's quite dangerous. If you take half the number of cars out, that's not going to help our problem because we are still going to get this occasional guy that flies through there. ~ have suggested stop signs on both Santa Fe Circles. This would stop the traffic. \ve have brought this up before and they say we can't do it. Bill Brezipsky - This year we put in uniform signing on all the streets and we have to conform to all the regulations where stop signs are to be put and they just aren't warranted at T intersections. If you put them where they are not warranted they don't do any good. Nobody pays any attention to it. Once we complete putting up the new signs the state will come in and inspect them and they will tell you to take it down. If you don't take it. down then we won't get the federal money for the signs. Charles Coffee _ Can we make a request to the state and say we have an unusual situation, we would like to put a sigrt in a place that possibly you would feel might not warrant a sign but these are the reasons we want ,it up there? dan we do that? To me it's a,lot simpler than putting a cUl:-de-sac down ~om~p~ace ~n . another street or putting in speed bumps and say we m~ght hav~ a l~ab~lJ_ty s~tuat~on or blocking off the end of Santa Fe Trail. All these things cost a lot of money. A stop sign-doesn't cost a lot of money. Why can't we make a plea to the state'l Bill Brezinsky _ I can, talk to the people from the state when they go a~und but I know what the answer is going to be. I'll tell them what the problem ~s but they are going to say no, it isn't warranted, it won't do any good. Dick Dutcher _ I was wonde'ring whether this is a typical situation <;>r whether as .. the remaining area in this neighborhbod developes whether we. are gomg to ~ve .., . 'I bl ?Are we dealing with a symp on other streets which may have a s~l1ll. ar, pro em" that 1 s in the basic waY the or are we dealing vd.th a disease? Is ~t someth~ng e e - Planning Commission Meeting July 27, 1977 -3- streets are laid out that's creating a problem or is this the kind of situation you have regardless of how the streets were laid out and is there a solution to that '/ Bruc? Panko~i~ - The problem is, I believe, adequate collector roads, those that prov~de mob~hty were not provided for in Sunrise Hills and \tJ€stern Hills. These roads by default took on a through mobility function. They weren't designed initially to handle the traffic" namely Laredo Drive and Frontier Trail. People's mobility" their speed of access, they think is increased by winding down through this residential area where they shouldn't be and it's a" function of the design of the road initially and that's an historic thing. We are working to up grade Laredo. You will notice in laredo Lane there are no driveways that front on Laredo Drive. We are trying to accentuate the mobili ty function. Roman Roos _ A parallel analogy to that is Dakota in Chalmassen Estates~ I would imagine the traffic on that is probably heavier than itlhat it is on San,ta Fe. We have talked about speed bwnps but you would have to put them eve'ry 50 feet to have any affect and I don't know if that's plausible. Charles Coffee - \~ would I contact about this? Bill Brezinsky - You should contact the district office in Golden Valley and talk to the district engineer. Dick Dutcher moved that the Planning Corrunissionfeels at this point' in time the problem is primarily an enforcement problem that there should be a long term effort made toward ~pgrading the collector streets in the neighborhood to encourage traffic along those kinds of streets. The people on Santa Fe Trail be advised to contact the City Manager as it is an enforcement problem. Hotion died for lack of a second. ' Dick DUtcher moved that the Planning Commission recoIll.DlSnd staff investigate,:.on ansting streets, the feasibility of cul-de-sacs whe'!'e we have these kinds of problems and that the concerned citizens be referred to the city administration, we suggest ,that this is primarily an enforcement problem at this time. A long term solution may arise in the actual design of the streets in the area or redesign of the traffic pattern of the area. MOtion died for lack of a second. '. Jerry Neher moved that the Planning Corrunission advises the Council to thoroughly investigate and make an effort,due to the fact that this seems to be a speed problem more than anything else, and investigate. an.d :if p~ssible put up stop signs on Santa Fe Circle. Motion died for lack of a second. Bruce Pankonin _ \~ are going to have to monitor the speed to see what the actual o p,roblem is. Possibly we cou.ldcome back to you. Roman Roos moved "that we administratively tak~ a look at the speeding on Santa Fe Trail as soon as possible and assure Mr. Coffee that Bill Brezinsky will~ke an effort to contact the state to see if there is somepO"S:;iible means ofP.~tt~ng up" a stop sign If that solution is possible that eli:rru.nates the problem J.n other situations.. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher. The following:roted i~ favor: Hud Hollenback, Jerry Neher, and Roman Roos. Dick Dutcher abstamed. vialter Thompson voted no. MOtion carried. fo rward" term should Dick 0 Dutcher _ The reason I abstained was because I wanted something '\:.0 go I am not in,favor of what they are suggesting except aSp~l" t r?garcdosrrun'. a';sshsi~~ . " d I think the ann~ng ,J. relief that law enforcement _-nIl prov~ e. take a very hard look at this kind of situation. We already obviously got some problems like this right now, Dakota and Santa Fe and Bluff Creek Drive is also another indication of the same kind of a problem and maybe we should come up as a Planning Conunission, not only ivith recommendations involving traffic flow in Planning-Commission Meeting July 27, 1977 -4- Hud Hollenback moved that the Planning Commission recommend to the Council that they deny the petition for construction of a new silo for Apple Valle:}' Red-E-Mix because it is our feeling that construction of said silo would intensJ.fy the non-conforming use in the CBD area. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher. Motion unanimously approved. " HOUSING AND REDEVELOPIvIENT AUTHORITY - TAX INCREMENT FINANCING PLAN: The City F'!annerexplained the HRl's proposal to create a tax increment district in the downtown area of Chanhassen. A feasibility study will begin August 1 and will - inClude the ownership of land for all parcels within the district, land value · and tax status of all parcels and indicate presence of blight, and recommended project boundaries. The boundaries generally include all the CBD plus lands in Frontier Development Park and west to POW8;S Blvd. Planning Corrnnission members would like to receive copies of the HRA minutes. R-IB ,ZONING DISTRICT: The Planning Commission haa scheduled a pub lic hearing for AUguS'V lu, l.>' {(, at. (:30 p.m. in the ChanhassenE1ementary School to consider rezoning a portion of Carver Beach east of Nez Perce, St. Hub~rtus, Shore Acres, and Red Cedar Point to R-IB. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT - NO~SE: Bob Waibel di~ou~sed the pcA regulations. Bud Hollenback moved to hold a pubIic hearing on September 14, 1977, "at 7 :30 p.m. to consider amending Section 12.07 and adding a new Section 19.20 and also include Russell Larson I s recommendation as per his July 19, 1977 ,letter as proposed Ordinance 47-1. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. METROPOLITAN CQUNCILISPLANNING GRA~T PROGRAM: The city is entitled to receive 17,346 for planning assistance under the Mandatory Planning Act. Th~ Planner will apply for the money. MINNESOTA DOT _ TRANSPORTATION PLAN: Members reviewed Phase I of the plan. 4 4 This plan calls for construction of U.S., 212,b?tween Norwood~~w;nt~~~t~~~we~n' start bus service from 'vJaconia to the 'rwin CJ.tJ.8S, compl~: hi~hW:S' build a Chaska and Norwood, provide spaQe for bikeways on new ur e. - e - Planning Commission Meeting July 27, 1977 -5- new bridge (Highway 41) over the Iunnesota River at Shakopee, and build new County 18 bridge over the river. COUNCIL HINUTES: Members discussed the July 11 and 18 Council minutes. ECOLOGICAL CO:Ml\1ITTEE: A tentative meeting with the DNR has been set for September S, 1977. Subjects to be discussed are, shoreline management, water use and fish management and water zoning or regulation. Ttlalter Thompson moved to adjourn. Notion seconded by Hud Hollenback. Motion unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 11:15 p.m. Don Ashwo rth City Nanager