1977 11 09
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REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 9, 1977
PUBLIC HEARING
REZONING AND SUBDIVISION - ALLEN GRAY
Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. with the
following members present: Les Bridger, Walter Thompson, and Roman
Roos. Mal MacAlpine, Jerry Neher, and Hud Hollenback were absent.
The following persons were present:
Allen Gray
John Kosmas
Kenneth Liva
Eugene Susemih1
Russell Larson
The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver
County Herald.
Mr. Gray is requesting approval to subdivide property on Lake Riley
Blvd. into 12 residential lots and rezone the same property from R-1A
to P-1. Sanitary sewer is being installed to the property at the
present time. A common outlot is proposed with a tennis court, small
putting green, and green space.
The hearing was opened for comments from those present:
Eugene Susemih1 - I have no objection to it whatever.
Russell Larson - In the minutes on the 28th there is a statementi"A
six inch concrete drive over curb and gutter must be installed with
runoff directed to the utility easement between Lots 7 and 8 if a
storm sewer is not installed." It would be my recommendation that if
we are going to use that area as a runoff that we be given a drainage
way easement in addition to a utility easement. Utility easements are
usually not wide enough if we have to go in and put a major structure
in. As a part of that, I would like to know and I think we should be
informed by the Engineer if we are going to use that as a runoff area,
where that water ultimately will flow once it leaves Lots 7 and 8 and
the drainageway area. I think we should ask for an engineering report
on that aspect.
John Kosmas - In response to the utility or drainage easement which
has been termed as both, that happens to be a 20 foot easement, ten foot
on either side of the property line rather than the typical ten foot.
Russell Larson - I would like it to be denominated on the plat then
as a utility and drainageway easement.
John Kosmas - That happens to be the case because that also happens
to be where the sewer is going through.
The City Planner did not receive any comments from the general public
since the published notice.
Eugene Susemih1 - We own Lots 40 and 41 in Shore Acres and Lot 39 is
completely covered with water every time we get a heavy rain and that
flows across onto our lot and washes out 1akeshore.
Russell Larson - This is what I am talking about. I think we should
find out where that water is going to go.
Bruce Pankonin - I will talk to Bill Brezinsky about that and make sure
that he let's the Council know where that water is going to go.
Les Bridger - How about the beach lot?
Bruce Pankonin - That's not a part of this proposal. A property owner
Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
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has every right to petition the City for a conditional use permit for
the operation of a beach lot. That is not part of this proposal at this
time. _
John Kosmas - Basically, the development stands as a development and ..
the beach lot is something that we are going to be pursuing,but they
are not contingent on each other.
Walter Thompson - The interior road is the responsibility of the
prop Ie living there, for plowing, etc.?
Bruce Pankonin - Yes. It will be maintained by the homeowners. They
will give the City a utility easement for that pipe in the ground but
the road will be their responsibility.
Les Bridger moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by
Walter Thompson., and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 7: 50 p.m.
MINUTES: Les Bridger moved to approve the November 2, 1977, public
hearing minutes as written. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and
unanimously approved.
Les Bridger moved to approve the November 2, 1977, special Planning
Commission minutes as written. Motion seconded by Roman Roos and
unanimously approved.
Roman Roos moved to approve the October 26, 1977, Planning Commission
minutes. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved.
REZONING AND SUBDIVXSION- ALLEN GRAY: Staff recommended that the
developer be bound to the drawings submitted to date and that the _
Planning Commission recommend that the property be rezoned from R-lA ..
to P-l.
Roman Roes moved to recommend the Council approve the subdivision of the
subject p~operty and the rezoning fram R-lA to P-l subject to a 20 foot
utility and drainage easement. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and
unanimously approved.
HRA TAX INCREMENT PROPOSAL: Walter Thompson moved to recommend the
City Council establish a tax increment district in the downtown area
of Chanhassen. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved.
PUBLIC HEARING
SUBDIVISION FOR DAVID LARSON
Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 8:15 p.m. with the
following interested persons present:
David A. Larson
Bill Brezinsky
Russell Larson
The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver
County Herald. Staff has not received any comments from the general
public regarding this proposed subdivision.
Mr. Larson is proposing to divide his property into three lots. Staffe
recommended that the Planning Commission find Mr. Larson's request to
be consistent with the spirit and intent of the zoning ordinance and
subdivision ordinance provided appropriate drainage easements are
dedicated.
Planning commission Meeting Novemper 9, 1977
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Roman Roos moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Walter
Thompson and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:30 p.m.
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SUBDIVISION FOR DAVID LARSON: Staff recommended that the Planning
Commission recommend to the Council that a short plat be granted to
Mr. Larson for the subdivision of the property as described provided
the city attorney reviews the title and drainage easements be given.
Dick Dutcher - Would you entertain the notion of donating a portion of
the property that abuts the lake shore to the park for park purposes
or for creating a scenic easement or some other easement that would
protect that?
David Larson - I have 40 feet of lakeshore. I want to retain the
ownership and the use of that. There is an area between where the
new house WOuld probably go and that lake shore that is a wildlife area.
I think we could come to some kind of an agreement where we would place
restrictions on such things as filling that. My intention is not to
do anything other than to leave it natural. I am willing to do that.
I think itwouldcbe to the best interest of that property, whether I
own it or someone else, that they have the assurance and I am sure
that the DNR is going to see to it that that piece of property in that
area doesn't get developed but rather gets enhanced. I think we should
come up with something that on my property says the same thing, that
permanently it will be enhanced as well or it will take its natural
course rather than being deteriorated by a person or persons.
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Les Bridger moved to recommend the Council grant short plat approval
to Mr. Larson provided the city attorney reviews the title and drainage
easements are given. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously
approved.
PLANNING COMMISSION APPOINTMENT: Les Bridger moved to recommend the
Council appoint one of the applicants interviewed to the Planning
Commission. Members felt everyone was qualified to serve on the
Planning Commission but to give the Council direction, here is a
prioritized list:
1. Richard Matthews
2. Shirley Chellis
3. Pat Swenson .
Gary Eastburn
4. Dave Schultz
Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved.
Hud Hollenback came at 9:00 p.m.
COMMUNITY FACILITIES STUDY COMMITTEE: Don Ashworth was present.
The Study Committee has been involved in the issues of Old st. Hubert's
Church, new public works garage, city hall, and library. The Planning
Commission should consider spacial locational requirements for these
public facilities. Funds have been set aside by the county for a
branch library in Chanhassen.
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Dick Dutcher - I have noticed"that many communities, especially ones
that are growing communities, for library facilities in particular will
lease store fronts. What about the general principal of rather than
the city having a substantial investment,6f the city renting' their
facilities and keeping that on the tax rolls and getting a little of
it back in terms of property tax, providing something for a developer
to write off which, hopefully would enable the city to obtain a lower
Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
-4-
cost facility. The vehicle of using a sale lease back arrangement
is very commonly accepted principle in real estate development. Why
couldn't the city do something like that? Why do they have to be ..
publicly owned if it's to the city's benefit and we are all concerned ..
about taxes.
Hud Hollenback - Has somebody determined that there is a need for a
library here over the next couple of years or are we looking at a
building and questioning what would be a good use, a library facility
or whatever and trying to fill it.
Walter Thompson - A library generates its own clientele.
Hud Hollenback - From where? All the people up in the north end go
to Excelsior. How many libraries can you support within a five mile
radius?
Les Bridger - The study showed that a large number of our people are
using those facilities at the present time whereas if we had our own
facility we could maintain that facility here instead of going outside
of our city.
Hud Hollenback - For $90,000, is that a good investment?
Roman Roos - You take that building on County Road 4 for example,
it's an interim library. That's an economical building. It's a single
story and a $90,000 reality.
Les Bridger - The reason we even considered the old church was 1) the
need in the community for such a facility and 2) we wanted to try to
maintain the structure which we all felt and many towns people feel
should remain in the city.
Don Ashworth - I think I can speak for the Community Facilities Committee
in that they have placed a high priority on that facility. I have
wlaced a priority on public works garage just looking at our public
works facility. If they were.to rank them they would place the highes.
priority on the library and secondly would probably be the public work
facility.
Les Bridger - St. Hubert's Church isn't the only site. If this group
has some other ideas we would like to hear them.
Planning Commission members are invited to walk a proposed site along
proposed MSAS 101 Saturday morning at 9:00 a.m.
Hud Hollenback moved to table this item until later on the agenda.
Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved.
PUBLIC HEARING
SUBDIVISION FOR ROBERT SOMMER
Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 9:30 p.m. with the
following interested persons present:
Bill Brezinsky
Phil Bonthius, 2300 Melody Hill
Robert Sommer, 6239 Chaska Road
Bill Swearengen, 6250 Chaska Road
George Baer, 6300 Chaska Road
Frank Reese, 6200 Chaska Road
Craig Mertz
The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver
County Herald. e
Mr. Sommer is requesting approval to divide Lot C, Bardwell Acres into
two lots.
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Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
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Staff recommended that the Planning Commission find this consistent with the City
Plan and recommend approval.
The hearing was opened for comments from persons present.
Bill Swearengin":' I treated this as an informational meeting to find out what the
situation was and what Bob had planned and what the Planning Commission had in mind
as far as total development of that piece of land. Between Frank Reese and myself and
George Baer we also share some land in Shorewood and as you know Shorewood is also
developing commercial property in that area. Directly across the street from us
they put in the Shorewood Village Shopping Center. Bruce said that this was to be
zoned R-l, Shorewood has part of that zoned R-2 directly adjacent to us and part of
it is also zoned for commercial. I just wonder if it's consistent with what your
plans are to have this further developed into R-l type zoning.
Dick Dutcher - As regards what another municipality or another governing body does
with the land that is under their jurisdiction, we have little control other than perhaps
asking their cooperation. As regards to the property within the City of Chanhassen,
yes, we do and we are in the process of developing a city plan. At the present time
the land in that area is designated for that purpose for that R-l:usage.
Bruce Pankonin - The City Plan shows that area to be low density residential. The
City Plan also shows the intersection of Highways 41 and 7,the southwest quadrant,to
be multiple family.
Bill Swearengin - All I want to make is the point that in the future,
whether it's this Councilor another Council, that sooner or later the
the press is going to be on that these people across the street are going
to face a commercial site. This has been the trend and unless we
retrench and don't have the population growth that the Metropolitan Council
anticipates, fine, there is no problem, but if we do then the people
that buy Sommer's piece of property are going to look down and they are
going to say why did you let this happen? Why didn't you anticipate
this? None of us to this point have made any issue about commercial
development. We haven't applied for commercial zoning or anything like
this. We could and we might in the future. There are a number of
opportunities and possibilities available to us even to the point of
applying to Shorewood to take this little sliver of land in.
When they bring the sewer up from the trunk, who foots the cost on bringing
the trunk up?
Dick Dutcher - That was a part of
Bill Swearengin - The trunk isn't
the road which is not adjacent to
Bill Brezinsky - There is a sewer
Bob Sommer - :r have a sewer line.
Bill Swearengin ~ No, you don't have a sewer line.
Bill Brezinsky ~ The sewer was put in to serve the Minnetonka West Junior
High. It goes into Excelsior.
Bill Swearengin - I was wondering if anyone can hook into that sewer line.
If :r wanted to subdivide my property, then I could also hook back into
this trunk?
Bill Brezinsky - It's available to all the properties. It follows the
road. To connect to it you would have to pay a trunk sewer charge.
Frank Reese - When that was put in it was set up with "x" number of
unit hook ups and it was sized for that. Now all those hook up units
are on the line now. You can't put anymore things on itoin spite of
how many "t's" there are. You talk to the Sewer Board and they will
tell you that.
Bob Sommer - I have got 17 hook ups.
Frank Reese - You can't hook up because the connections have already
been made and technically they were mostly made when they put the Country
Kitchen in. I don't know how many units that ate up.
the north service area.
up there yet. The trunk dead ended
Sommer's property at this point.
~ine in the road.
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Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
-6-
Bruce Pankonin - Can you hook up to the sewer, Bill?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, from the information we have there are no
restrictions on connecting to that line. ~
Bill swearengin - Frank was involved in this at the time it was hooked ..
up. Frank is also on the Shorewood Planning Commission and I rather
suspect he has some intimate knowledge on this.
Bill Brezinsky - We looked into it when we did the north area sewer
project and that's what we checked out if we could make any more
connections or if there was a limited number of connections to that
line and there was not.
Bruce Pankonin - If would suggest the Planning Commission, if you
find this proposed subdivision to be consistent with the spirit and
intent of the city plan, condition your recommendation upon the
availability 6~ sanitary sewer to the subject property.
Bill Swearengin - I have no objection to what you are planning as long
as you put in the notes that we will, at least I will, Bill Swearengin,
push for commercial development on my piece of land in the future. That
any purchaser of the preperty should be aware of this.
Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by
Les Bridger and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 10:05 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
SANTA VERA PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN
HANSEN AND KLINGELHUTZ
Dick Dutcher called the hearing to order with the following interested
persons present:
Cnaig Mertz, 510 Laredo Drive ~
Doug Hansen, 17001 Stodola Road, Minnetonka ..
Jim Hawks,
Ly1eL. Guhl, 511 Del Rio Drive
Bill Brezinsky
Jim Alsup, 102 E. 19th St., Mp1s.
The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver
County Herald.
The City Planner gave his report. The property is located directly
north of the Chanhassen Elementary School and is zonedP-1. Sanitary
sewer and water is available to the property. The proposal is to
construct 10 eight.unit apartment.bui1dings. The Planner feels the
developer should be encouraged to proceed with implementing the plan
for Santa Vera, however, he suggested an earth berm, be created along
tb,e open parktng area in Phase I. Hansen and K1inge1hutz should be
required to provide some active recreation space on the site. The
developer be required to install a sidewalk along Laredo Drive. The
developer should r,eserve some units with a higher amenity package than
would normally be built in atypical apartment project. The Planner
s~ated he has not been particularly enamored with the architectural
style of the buildings.
Jim Uawks - Our approach was that we would try to maintain the topography
and minimize the grading on the site. We also recognize this is a
major entrance road into this residential neighborhood. The school is e
a public property. It does have the tennis courts existing on it which
are for the school plus the general public. At, the entrance we were
proposing a berm and this would be planted so that when your vision
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enters this proposed development you will not immediately see the
structures. We would like to stage the development, four possibly five
years. We do not anticipate there will be many children in the
development. We have a little bit of difference with Bruce as far as
active recreation on the site. Part of the PUD was the park. It needs
to have some development in it and we proposed last time, not objecting
to the active recreation, but we are questioning whether it should be
on this site. We would meet that obligation by putting $1,000 for each
stage to be used to develop that park. We assume this group of residents
is going to pay their fair share of the tax picture to help develop
as much as the rest of the neighborhood is also. There is somewhat of
a cut back or retrenchment on extensive exterior active recreation;
tennis courts, swimming pool, shuffleboard courts, and a lot of things
that were in the apartment picture a few years ago. Part of it is cost
but part of it is after having lived with the administration of those
sites it is kind of a problem. We would just as soon not have it here
and we are not starting out with the intent of trying to attract the
young unmarried adult. It isn't the market we are hoping to get in this
particular project. We would like to support some recreation but we
would rather not have it on this location.
As far as upgrading, we don't object to that except that to promise
someone that we will put in fireplaces and we will have sunken living
rooms and all these things, that's nice but I guess it depends a little
bit on whether or not the market reflects what we are proposing. We
would rather start without it. We have been thinking through the cost
and design. We don't want to be pinned down to it at this stage.
Hud Hollenback - In parking lots like this, is there need for lighting?
Jim Hawks - There will be lights on the garages. Security lights will
have to be put in but not the lighting that we have known in the past.
Hud Hollenback -I have a problem with the buildings. I don't see it
fitting the way you are describing it, fitting into the land, this sort
of thing.
Jim Hawks - This is a style of building which has become very popular
in the southwest. This is a tudor type building and stucco is expensive.
We would like to have a light and airy type of construction and also
with the stucco they would be all light colors, gray, tan, white. We
don't want it to look like an institution. There will be a variety of
colors in there.
Hud Hollenback - This hadn't been mentioned before. I assumed they
would all be white stucco buildings.
Les Bridger - Did you indicate there would be no problem with the
sidewalk?
Doug Hansen - That's right. A sidewalk up to four feet wide.
Jim Hawks - Having public sidewalks leading to the schools on major
streets is a good idea. I am not so sure that it's necessarily equitable
to have the people who happen to own the property there pay for it all.
It really is a neighborhood service.
Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by
Les Bridger and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 10:40 p.m.
SANTA VERA PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN: Hud Hollenback moved to suggest
the developer proceed with implementing plans for Santa VeraPUD provided
an earthberm:,is created along the open parking area in Phase' I, that
they install a sidewalk along the length of Laredo Drive in this
Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
-8-
development to a four foot width. They should reserve some units with
a high amenity package. The developer contribute $1,000 upon completion
of each of the IDour phases toward improvement or development of Western~
Hills Park in lieu of providing recreational space on the property. Th~
developer will modify the color renditions of the buildings. Motion
seconded by Roman Roos and unanimously approved.
ROBERT SOMMER SUBDIVISION: The City Engineer will check on the status
of the existing sewer line.
Hud Hollenback moved to recommend the Council approve dividing Lot C
Bardwell Acres into two lots as per Mr. Sommer's request subject to
the Engineer's findings. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously
approved.
COMMUNITY FACILITIES STUDY COMMITTEE: Members discussed a possible
site along MSAS 101 for a library, public works garage, and city hall.
Hud Hollenback - I have a proQlem with the church being a library for
the amount of money spent for an elevator and all that kind of thing.
As a long term investment I just don't quite see it. We can do without
a library for a certain amount of time. until we do it right.
Dick Dutcher - I tend to agree with Hud's comment.
Walter~Thompson - I think anything that goes into the church should be
a very very minimum amount. We would be using those dollars to a better
advantage elsewhere for a library particularly. I am not so sure but
what the library ought to have a considerable priority even though
there is one in Excelsior, there is one on County Road 4. I can see a
further problem coming up this spring if this bond issue is going to .-
come up at that time, if the people aren't a whole lot better informed ..
than they are now, and I suspect from the information we have here
we probably have more information than 95% of the people in the community,
there is going to have to be a good PR job done on this to get the
information out how badly we need all these facilities.
Dick Dutcher - Couldn't we get the Community Schools involved~in
administering the use of the church basement for meetings.
Donn Ashworth - Homeowners association meetings and the art classes.
Hud Hollenback - Bridge groups.
Dick Dutcher - They could use the basement. They have been used to
getting the city hall and getting it for free.
Don Ashworth - One thing we have talked about is there is definitely a
need in the community for those type of activities. Whether they are
free or $2.00 a night ...
Hud Hollenback - There is a lot of wear and tear. Somebody has to
maintain it, sweep up.
Don Ashworth - There is a real question in there. If it's a regular
club and making profits maybe you can charge. What if it's beginning
bridge lessons? One thing for sure there is definitely a community need
for facilities like that.
Dick Dutcher - Can we agree that we don't recommend that the library
facility be included in the church?
Hud Hollenback - That's the way I feel.
Walter Thompson - I would agree to that.
Dick Dutcher - Can we agree that some effort ought to be made whether
it's through the Community Facilities Committee or some other body thate
an attempt be made either through Community Schools or some other
organization to promote the use of the church since it apparently is
going to be a public facility, that that be encouraged to develop
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Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977
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revenue that will support the continuing maintenance and upkeep of it?
Hud Hollenback - If it's possible.
SHORELAND DEVELOPMENT: Dick Dutcher presented members with a copy of
an article from the "Minnesota Volunteer" regarding shoreland development.
MINNEWASHTA REGIONAL PARK: Hud Hollenback expressed that the 19 concerns
developed previously should be included in the conditional use permit.
He also feels that the question of water surface usage on Lake
Minnewashta should be addressed.
Hud Hollenback moved to recommend that the Park and Recreation Commission
should develop a water base plan. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and
unanimously approved.
Hud Hollenback moved to request the Council authorize the Park and
Recreation Commission review the Carver County Park Ordinance and if
they feel additional controls are necessary that they recommend that
they be included in the conditional use permit. Motion seconded by
Les Bridger and unanimously approved.
RESIGNATION:
resignation.
Hud Hollenback moved to accept with regret Dick Dutoher's
Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved.
Les Bridger moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and
unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 12:15 a.m.
Don Ashworth
City Manager
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