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1977 11 09 e e e REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 9, 1977 PUBLIC HEARING REZONING AND SUBDIVISION - ALLEN GRAY Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Les Bridger, Walter Thompson, and Roman Roos. Mal MacAlpine, Jerry Neher, and Hud Hollenback were absent. The following persons were present: Allen Gray John Kosmas Kenneth Liva Eugene Susemih1 Russell Larson The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. Mr. Gray is requesting approval to subdivide property on Lake Riley Blvd. into 12 residential lots and rezone the same property from R-1A to P-1. Sanitary sewer is being installed to the property at the present time. A common outlot is proposed with a tennis court, small putting green, and green space. The hearing was opened for comments from those present: Eugene Susemih1 - I have no objection to it whatever. Russell Larson - In the minutes on the 28th there is a statementi"A six inch concrete drive over curb and gutter must be installed with runoff directed to the utility easement between Lots 7 and 8 if a storm sewer is not installed." It would be my recommendation that if we are going to use that area as a runoff that we be given a drainage way easement in addition to a utility easement. Utility easements are usually not wide enough if we have to go in and put a major structure in. As a part of that, I would like to know and I think we should be informed by the Engineer if we are going to use that as a runoff area, where that water ultimately will flow once it leaves Lots 7 and 8 and the drainageway area. I think we should ask for an engineering report on that aspect. John Kosmas - In response to the utility or drainage easement which has been termed as both, that happens to be a 20 foot easement, ten foot on either side of the property line rather than the typical ten foot. Russell Larson - I would like it to be denominated on the plat then as a utility and drainageway easement. John Kosmas - That happens to be the case because that also happens to be where the sewer is going through. The City Planner did not receive any comments from the general public since the published notice. Eugene Susemih1 - We own Lots 40 and 41 in Shore Acres and Lot 39 is completely covered with water every time we get a heavy rain and that flows across onto our lot and washes out 1akeshore. Russell Larson - This is what I am talking about. I think we should find out where that water is going to go. Bruce Pankonin - I will talk to Bill Brezinsky about that and make sure that he let's the Council know where that water is going to go. Les Bridger - How about the beach lot? Bruce Pankonin - That's not a part of this proposal. A property owner Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -2- has every right to petition the City for a conditional use permit for the operation of a beach lot. That is not part of this proposal at this time. _ John Kosmas - Basically, the development stands as a development and .. the beach lot is something that we are going to be pursuing,but they are not contingent on each other. Walter Thompson - The interior road is the responsibility of the prop Ie living there, for plowing, etc.? Bruce Pankonin - Yes. It will be maintained by the homeowners. They will give the City a utility easement for that pipe in the ground but the road will be their responsibility. Les Bridger moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson., and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 7: 50 p.m. MINUTES: Les Bridger moved to approve the November 2, 1977, public hearing minutes as written. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Les Bridger moved to approve the November 2, 1977, special Planning Commission minutes as written. Motion seconded by Roman Roos and unanimously approved. Roman Roos moved to approve the October 26, 1977, Planning Commission minutes. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. REZONING AND SUBDIVXSION- ALLEN GRAY: Staff recommended that the developer be bound to the drawings submitted to date and that the _ Planning Commission recommend that the property be rezoned from R-lA .. to P-l. Roman Roes moved to recommend the Council approve the subdivision of the subject p~operty and the rezoning fram R-lA to P-l subject to a 20 foot utility and drainage easement. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. HRA TAX INCREMENT PROPOSAL: Walter Thompson moved to recommend the City Council establish a tax increment district in the downtown area of Chanhassen. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING SUBDIVISION FOR DAVID LARSON Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 8:15 p.m. with the following interested persons present: David A. Larson Bill Brezinsky Russell Larson The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. Staff has not received any comments from the general public regarding this proposed subdivision. Mr. Larson is proposing to divide his property into three lots. Staffe recommended that the Planning Commission find Mr. Larson's request to be consistent with the spirit and intent of the zoning ordinance and subdivision ordinance provided appropriate drainage easements are dedicated. Planning commission Meeting Novemper 9, 1977 ~- ~ Roman Roos moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:30 p.m. e SUBDIVISION FOR DAVID LARSON: Staff recommended that the Planning Commission recommend to the Council that a short plat be granted to Mr. Larson for the subdivision of the property as described provided the city attorney reviews the title and drainage easements be given. Dick Dutcher - Would you entertain the notion of donating a portion of the property that abuts the lake shore to the park for park purposes or for creating a scenic easement or some other easement that would protect that? David Larson - I have 40 feet of lakeshore. I want to retain the ownership and the use of that. There is an area between where the new house WOuld probably go and that lake shore that is a wildlife area. I think we could come to some kind of an agreement where we would place restrictions on such things as filling that. My intention is not to do anything other than to leave it natural. I am willing to do that. I think itwouldcbe to the best interest of that property, whether I own it or someone else, that they have the assurance and I am sure that the DNR is going to see to it that that piece of property in that area doesn't get developed but rather gets enhanced. I think we should come up with something that on my property says the same thing, that permanently it will be enhanced as well or it will take its natural course rather than being deteriorated by a person or persons. e Les Bridger moved to recommend the Council grant short plat approval to Mr. Larson provided the city attorney reviews the title and drainage easements are given. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. PLANNING COMMISSION APPOINTMENT: Les Bridger moved to recommend the Council appoint one of the applicants interviewed to the Planning Commission. Members felt everyone was qualified to serve on the Planning Commission but to give the Council direction, here is a prioritized list: 1. Richard Matthews 2. Shirley Chellis 3. Pat Swenson . Gary Eastburn 4. Dave Schultz Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Hud Hollenback came at 9:00 p.m. COMMUNITY FACILITIES STUDY COMMITTEE: Don Ashworth was present. The Study Committee has been involved in the issues of Old st. Hubert's Church, new public works garage, city hall, and library. The Planning Commission should consider spacial locational requirements for these public facilities. Funds have been set aside by the county for a branch library in Chanhassen. e Dick Dutcher - I have noticed"that many communities, especially ones that are growing communities, for library facilities in particular will lease store fronts. What about the general principal of rather than the city having a substantial investment,6f the city renting' their facilities and keeping that on the tax rolls and getting a little of it back in terms of property tax, providing something for a developer to write off which, hopefully would enable the city to obtain a lower Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -4- cost facility. The vehicle of using a sale lease back arrangement is very commonly accepted principle in real estate development. Why couldn't the city do something like that? Why do they have to be .. publicly owned if it's to the city's benefit and we are all concerned .. about taxes. Hud Hollenback - Has somebody determined that there is a need for a library here over the next couple of years or are we looking at a building and questioning what would be a good use, a library facility or whatever and trying to fill it. Walter Thompson - A library generates its own clientele. Hud Hollenback - From where? All the people up in the north end go to Excelsior. How many libraries can you support within a five mile radius? Les Bridger - The study showed that a large number of our people are using those facilities at the present time whereas if we had our own facility we could maintain that facility here instead of going outside of our city. Hud Hollenback - For $90,000, is that a good investment? Roman Roos - You take that building on County Road 4 for example, it's an interim library. That's an economical building. It's a single story and a $90,000 reality. Les Bridger - The reason we even considered the old church was 1) the need in the community for such a facility and 2) we wanted to try to maintain the structure which we all felt and many towns people feel should remain in the city. Don Ashworth - I think I can speak for the Community Facilities Committee in that they have placed a high priority on that facility. I have wlaced a priority on public works garage just looking at our public works facility. If they were.to rank them they would place the highes. priority on the library and secondly would probably be the public work facility. Les Bridger - St. Hubert's Church isn't the only site. If this group has some other ideas we would like to hear them. Planning Commission members are invited to walk a proposed site along proposed MSAS 101 Saturday morning at 9:00 a.m. Hud Hollenback moved to table this item until later on the agenda. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING SUBDIVISION FOR ROBERT SOMMER Dick Dutcher called the public hearing to order at 9:30 p.m. with the following interested persons present: Bill Brezinsky Phil Bonthius, 2300 Melody Hill Robert Sommer, 6239 Chaska Road Bill Swearengen, 6250 Chaska Road George Baer, 6300 Chaska Road Frank Reese, 6200 Chaska Road Craig Mertz The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. e Mr. Sommer is requesting approval to divide Lot C, Bardwell Acres into two lots. e e e Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -5- Staff recommended that the Planning Commission find this consistent with the City Plan and recommend approval. The hearing was opened for comments from persons present. Bill Swearengin":' I treated this as an informational meeting to find out what the situation was and what Bob had planned and what the Planning Commission had in mind as far as total development of that piece of land. Between Frank Reese and myself and George Baer we also share some land in Shorewood and as you know Shorewood is also developing commercial property in that area. Directly across the street from us they put in the Shorewood Village Shopping Center. Bruce said that this was to be zoned R-l, Shorewood has part of that zoned R-2 directly adjacent to us and part of it is also zoned for commercial. I just wonder if it's consistent with what your plans are to have this further developed into R-l type zoning. Dick Dutcher - As regards what another municipality or another governing body does with the land that is under their jurisdiction, we have little control other than perhaps asking their cooperation. As regards to the property within the City of Chanhassen, yes, we do and we are in the process of developing a city plan. At the present time the land in that area is designated for that purpose for that R-l:usage. Bruce Pankonin - The City Plan shows that area to be low density residential. The City Plan also shows the intersection of Highways 41 and 7,the southwest quadrant,to be multiple family. Bill Swearengin - All I want to make is the point that in the future, whether it's this Councilor another Council, that sooner or later the the press is going to be on that these people across the street are going to face a commercial site. This has been the trend and unless we retrench and don't have the population growth that the Metropolitan Council anticipates, fine, there is no problem, but if we do then the people that buy Sommer's piece of property are going to look down and they are going to say why did you let this happen? Why didn't you anticipate this? None of us to this point have made any issue about commercial development. We haven't applied for commercial zoning or anything like this. We could and we might in the future. There are a number of opportunities and possibilities available to us even to the point of applying to Shorewood to take this little sliver of land in. When they bring the sewer up from the trunk, who foots the cost on bringing the trunk up? Dick Dutcher - That was a part of Bill Swearengin - The trunk isn't the road which is not adjacent to Bill Brezinsky - There is a sewer Bob Sommer - :r have a sewer line. Bill Swearengin ~ No, you don't have a sewer line. Bill Brezinsky ~ The sewer was put in to serve the Minnetonka West Junior High. It goes into Excelsior. Bill Swearengin - I was wondering if anyone can hook into that sewer line. If :r wanted to subdivide my property, then I could also hook back into this trunk? Bill Brezinsky - It's available to all the properties. It follows the road. To connect to it you would have to pay a trunk sewer charge. Frank Reese - When that was put in it was set up with "x" number of unit hook ups and it was sized for that. Now all those hook up units are on the line now. You can't put anymore things on itoin spite of how many "t's" there are. You talk to the Sewer Board and they will tell you that. Bob Sommer - I have got 17 hook ups. Frank Reese - You can't hook up because the connections have already been made and technically they were mostly made when they put the Country Kitchen in. I don't know how many units that ate up. the north service area. up there yet. The trunk dead ended Sommer's property at this point. ~ine in the road. at Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -6- Bruce Pankonin - Can you hook up to the sewer, Bill? Bill Brezinsky - Yes, from the information we have there are no restrictions on connecting to that line. ~ Bill swearengin - Frank was involved in this at the time it was hooked .. up. Frank is also on the Shorewood Planning Commission and I rather suspect he has some intimate knowledge on this. Bill Brezinsky - We looked into it when we did the north area sewer project and that's what we checked out if we could make any more connections or if there was a limited number of connections to that line and there was not. Bruce Pankonin - If would suggest the Planning Commission, if you find this proposed subdivision to be consistent with the spirit and intent of the city plan, condition your recommendation upon the availability 6~ sanitary sewer to the subject property. Bill Swearengin - I have no objection to what you are planning as long as you put in the notes that we will, at least I will, Bill Swearengin, push for commercial development on my piece of land in the future. That any purchaser of the preperty should be aware of this. Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 10:05 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING SANTA VERA PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN HANSEN AND KLINGELHUTZ Dick Dutcher called the hearing to order with the following interested persons present: Cnaig Mertz, 510 Laredo Drive ~ Doug Hansen, 17001 Stodola Road, Minnetonka .. Jim Hawks, Ly1eL. Guhl, 511 Del Rio Drive Bill Brezinsky Jim Alsup, 102 E. 19th St., Mp1s. The City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. The City Planner gave his report. The property is located directly north of the Chanhassen Elementary School and is zonedP-1. Sanitary sewer and water is available to the property. The proposal is to construct 10 eight.unit apartment.bui1dings. The Planner feels the developer should be encouraged to proceed with implementing the plan for Santa Vera, however, he suggested an earth berm, be created along tb,e open parktng area in Phase I. Hansen and K1inge1hutz should be required to provide some active recreation space on the site. The developer be required to install a sidewalk along Laredo Drive. The developer should r,eserve some units with a higher amenity package than would normally be built in atypical apartment project. The Planner s~ated he has not been particularly enamored with the architectural style of the buildings. Jim Uawks - Our approach was that we would try to maintain the topography and minimize the grading on the site. We also recognize this is a major entrance road into this residential neighborhood. The school is e a public property. It does have the tennis courts existing on it which are for the school plus the general public. At, the entrance we were proposing a berm and this would be planted so that when your vision e e e Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -7- enters this proposed development you will not immediately see the structures. We would like to stage the development, four possibly five years. We do not anticipate there will be many children in the development. We have a little bit of difference with Bruce as far as active recreation on the site. Part of the PUD was the park. It needs to have some development in it and we proposed last time, not objecting to the active recreation, but we are questioning whether it should be on this site. We would meet that obligation by putting $1,000 for each stage to be used to develop that park. We assume this group of residents is going to pay their fair share of the tax picture to help develop as much as the rest of the neighborhood is also. There is somewhat of a cut back or retrenchment on extensive exterior active recreation; tennis courts, swimming pool, shuffleboard courts, and a lot of things that were in the apartment picture a few years ago. Part of it is cost but part of it is after having lived with the administration of those sites it is kind of a problem. We would just as soon not have it here and we are not starting out with the intent of trying to attract the young unmarried adult. It isn't the market we are hoping to get in this particular project. We would like to support some recreation but we would rather not have it on this location. As far as upgrading, we don't object to that except that to promise someone that we will put in fireplaces and we will have sunken living rooms and all these things, that's nice but I guess it depends a little bit on whether or not the market reflects what we are proposing. We would rather start without it. We have been thinking through the cost and design. We don't want to be pinned down to it at this stage. Hud Hollenback - In parking lots like this, is there need for lighting? Jim Hawks - There will be lights on the garages. Security lights will have to be put in but not the lighting that we have known in the past. Hud Hollenback -I have a problem with the buildings. I don't see it fitting the way you are describing it, fitting into the land, this sort of thing. Jim Hawks - This is a style of building which has become very popular in the southwest. This is a tudor type building and stucco is expensive. We would like to have a light and airy type of construction and also with the stucco they would be all light colors, gray, tan, white. We don't want it to look like an institution. There will be a variety of colors in there. Hud Hollenback - This hadn't been mentioned before. I assumed they would all be white stucco buildings. Les Bridger - Did you indicate there would be no problem with the sidewalk? Doug Hansen - That's right. A sidewalk up to four feet wide. Jim Hawks - Having public sidewalks leading to the schools on major streets is a good idea. I am not so sure that it's necessarily equitable to have the people who happen to own the property there pay for it all. It really is a neighborhood service. Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 10:40 p.m. SANTA VERA PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN: Hud Hollenback moved to suggest the developer proceed with implementing plans for Santa VeraPUD provided an earthberm:,is created along the open parking area in Phase' I, that they install a sidewalk along the length of Laredo Drive in this Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -8- development to a four foot width. They should reserve some units with a high amenity package. The developer contribute $1,000 upon completion of each of the IDour phases toward improvement or development of Western~ Hills Park in lieu of providing recreational space on the property. Th~ developer will modify the color renditions of the buildings. Motion seconded by Roman Roos and unanimously approved. ROBERT SOMMER SUBDIVISION: The City Engineer will check on the status of the existing sewer line. Hud Hollenback moved to recommend the Council approve dividing Lot C Bardwell Acres into two lots as per Mr. Sommer's request subject to the Engineer's findings. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. COMMUNITY FACILITIES STUDY COMMITTEE: Members discussed a possible site along MSAS 101 for a library, public works garage, and city hall. Hud Hollenback - I have a proQlem with the church being a library for the amount of money spent for an elevator and all that kind of thing. As a long term investment I just don't quite see it. We can do without a library for a certain amount of time. until we do it right. Dick Dutcher - I tend to agree with Hud's comment. Walter~Thompson - I think anything that goes into the church should be a very very minimum amount. We would be using those dollars to a better advantage elsewhere for a library particularly. I am not so sure but what the library ought to have a considerable priority even though there is one in Excelsior, there is one on County Road 4. I can see a further problem coming up this spring if this bond issue is going to .- come up at that time, if the people aren't a whole lot better informed .. than they are now, and I suspect from the information we have here we probably have more information than 95% of the people in the community, there is going to have to be a good PR job done on this to get the information out how badly we need all these facilities. Dick Dutcher - Couldn't we get the Community Schools involved~in administering the use of the church basement for meetings. Donn Ashworth - Homeowners association meetings and the art classes. Hud Hollenback - Bridge groups. Dick Dutcher - They could use the basement. They have been used to getting the city hall and getting it for free. Don Ashworth - One thing we have talked about is there is definitely a need in the community for those type of activities. Whether they are free or $2.00 a night ... Hud Hollenback - There is a lot of wear and tear. Somebody has to maintain it, sweep up. Don Ashworth - There is a real question in there. If it's a regular club and making profits maybe you can charge. What if it's beginning bridge lessons? One thing for sure there is definitely a community need for facilities like that. Dick Dutcher - Can we agree that we don't recommend that the library facility be included in the church? Hud Hollenback - That's the way I feel. Walter Thompson - I would agree to that. Dick Dutcher - Can we agree that some effort ought to be made whether it's through the Community Facilities Committee or some other body thate an attempt be made either through Community Schools or some other organization to promote the use of the church since it apparently is going to be a public facility, that that be encouraged to develop . e -- Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 1977 -9- revenue that will support the continuing maintenance and upkeep of it? Hud Hollenback - If it's possible. SHORELAND DEVELOPMENT: Dick Dutcher presented members with a copy of an article from the "Minnesota Volunteer" regarding shoreland development. MINNEWASHTA REGIONAL PARK: Hud Hollenback expressed that the 19 concerns developed previously should be included in the conditional use permit. He also feels that the question of water surface usage on Lake Minnewashta should be addressed. Hud Hollenback moved to recommend that the Park and Recreation Commission should develop a water base plan. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. Hud Hollenback moved to request the Council authorize the Park and Recreation Commission review the Carver County Park Ordinance and if they feel additional controls are necessary that they recommend that they be included in the conditional use permit. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. RESIGNATION: resignation. Hud Hollenback moved to accept with regret Dick Dutoher's Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Les Bridger moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 12:15 a.m. Don Ashworth City Manager 1