1978 01 11
REGULAR :PLANNING COW1;I;pp;I;QN ,MEE'l';I;NG JANUAg~ll, 1978
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M~l MacAlpine called the meeting to order at 7:15 p.m. with the ,
following members present: Jerry Neher, Les Bridger, Roman Roos, Hud
Hollenback, and Walter Thompson. Dick Matthews came at 7:30 p.m.
CHAIRMAN: A motion was made by Les Bridger and seconded by Hud Hollenback
that Roman Roos be appointed Chairman of the Chanhassen Planning
Commission. Motion unanimously approved.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: A ~otion was made by Jerry Neher and seconded by
Roman Roos that Walter Thompson be appointed Vice-Chairman of the
Chanhassen Planning Commission to serve in the absence of the Chairman.
Motion unanimously approved. .
RULES OF ORDER: A motion was made by Walter Thompson and seconded by
Hud Hollenback that the Chanhassen Planning Commission shall conduct
business pursuant to Roberts Rules of Order. Motion unanimously approved.'
MEETING NIGHTS: A motion was made by Hud Hollenback and'secontled by
Walter Thompson that the regular Chanhassen Planning Commission meeting
nights shall be the second and fourth Wednesdays of each month at
7:30 p.m. The first meeting of each month shall be reserved for
developers petitions and the second meeting of each month shall be
solely reserved for development of the Comprehensive Municipal Plan.
Motion unanimously approved.
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AGENDA SYSTEMS: A motion was made by Les Bridger and seconded by
Hud Hollenback that all meetings shall be conducted on the agenda system.
The Zoning Administrator shall be responsible f6r preparation of the
agenda and agendas shall be closed 14 days prior'to.thenext. 'regular
Planning Commission meeting. Motion unanimously approved.,
SIGN COMMITTEE: A motion was made by Hud. Hollenback'and sec:onded by
Walter Thompson that Jerry Neher be appofntedto the Chanhassen Sign
Committee. Motion unanimously approved. .
BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS: A motion was made by Roman Roos
and seconded by Jerry Neher that Dick Matthews be appointed the
Chanhassen Planning Commission's representative to the Board of
Adjustments and Appeals. Motion unanimously approved.
ALTERNATE TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS:, A motion .was made by
Hud Hollenback and seconded by Walter Thompson ,that Jerry Neher be the
alternate Planning Commission representative to the1;3aord of
Adjustments and Appeals. Motion unanimously approved.
ECOLOGICAL COMMITTEE: A motion was made by Les Bridger and seconded by
Roman Roos that Mal MacAlpine be the Chanhassen Planning Commission
representative on the Ecological Committee. Motion uhanimously approved.
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION: A motion was made by Les Bridger and
seconded by Walter Thompson that Hud Hollenback be the Chanhassen
Planning Commission liaison to the Park and Recreation Commission.
~ Motion unanimously approved.
Planning Commission Meeting January 11, 1978
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COMMUNITY FACILITIESINTER;I:M; STUDY CO~;rTTEE: A motion was made by
Jerry Neher and seconded by Walter Thompson that Les Bridger be the
Chanhassen Planning. Commission representative on the Community ~
Facilities Interim Study Committee. Motion unanimously approved. ~
Roman Roos chaired the remainder of the meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING
ELIZABETH SWEIGER SUBDIVISION
Roman Roos called the public hearing to order at 7.:45 p.m. The
following interested persons were present:
Elizabeth Sweiger, Minnetonka
Robert M. Sweiger, Jr., Minneapolis
Jane Partridge, Chanhassen
Russell Larson,. Chanhassen 'I. iCi
Marvel Eggum, Burnsville
Bill Brezinsky, Sqhoell and Madson
The Assistant C~tyPlanner read the official notice as published in
the Carver County-Herald.
Mrs. SweigerprQppsesto replatLot D, Bardwell Acres into three
residential buildIng lots. These proposed lots meet or exceed the
minimum square footage and frontage requirements. Because this
subdivision is a rearrangement of an existing platted lot, the Planner
recommended that the Planning Commission waive the requirement for
topographic data inoluding contours at vertical intervals of not ,~~
more than two feet.. Mrs. Sweiger has established a minimum floor
elevation of 1016 feet as- requested by staff at a previous meeting.
The City Attorney encouraged Mrs. Sweiger to seek approval from
the other owner in Lot D to join in this plat.
No comments were made by persons present.
Jerry Neher moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by
Walter ThQmpson. and unanimously approved. Hearing- closed at 7:55 p.m.
ELIZABETH SWE~GER SUBDIVISION: Les Bridger moved to recommend Mrs.
Sweigerproceed"tIi1aal~;JJ>lat. - and further recommends waiving the
requirement for t<!>pographic data. A minimum floor elevation ,c;>f 1016
feet has been established. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and .
unanimously approved.
COUNC~L MINUTES: The Planning Commission discussed the ~ecemb~r 19
Council minutes.
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Planning Commission Meeting January 11, 1978
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PUBLIC HEARING
MARVEL EGGUMSUBDIVISION
4It The public hearing was called to order at 8:l5 p.m. The following
interested persons were present:
Shirley and Ken Waldrip, 6410 Galpin Blvd.
Steve McCormick, 2085 Buford Ave., St. Paul
J. A. Gallagher, 7541 Ridgeway Road, Golden ~alley
Jane and George Jackson, 6480 Murray Hill Road
Jane Partridge, 6280 Hummingbird Road
Marguerite Gallagher, 6271 Hummingbird Road
Robert Blackwood, 2091 Melody Hill
Bev and Roger Hedtke, 23115 Summit
Bill Brezinsky, Schoell and Madson
Marvel Eggum, Burnsville
The Assistant City Planner read the official 'notice as published in
the Carver County Herald.
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The applicant is proposing to replat Lots 17 and 18, Murray Hill into
five residential building lots. Staff recommended that since this
is a rearrangement of existing lots, it is 'not necessary for the
developer to provide complete topographic data because he will not
be installing any municipal roads or utilities. All proposed lots
meet or exceed the minimum requirements for theR~1 District. The
Planner recommended approval of'the subdivision. The applicant should
posta $300 escrow deposit with the city prior to council consideration
of the Planning Commission recommendation.
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The meeting' was opened for comments from persons present.
Beverly Hedtke - I am'opposed to the small-lots.
Roger'Hedtke-'Iam also opposed.
Bob Blackwood - I am opposed as well. I think most of us are opposed
because most other lots in the area are considerably
larger in size than those proposed and we would like
to keep the area the character that has now been
established. '
George Jackson - I own five acres in the area. I have the property
across #117undercontract and 'I will be doing some
developing in the area. I do oppose this because
I think the lots are to small. The averaging is
being done on houses that are way below the average
cost in the area. I think it will promote substandard
housing.' ,
Mrs. Jackson - I suggest a ditto.
Jane Partridge - We are building a new house on'Hummingbird Road of an
acre and 3/4 and I oppose for all of the reasons that
have been given plus most of those that Mr. Waldrip
, will give . . '
John Gallagher. ~ I.am:'executor for.'my'father' s estate and I oppose
the subdivision.
Steve McCormick -I own the property directly across the street to
the south of the, proposed development. My objections
are that it completely alters the character of the
neighborhood. It really changes the value that I
would see in building the~e. I think that to use an
averaging technique to build the absolute minimum
lot sizes is something that is hard for me to
imagine anybody doing with a straight face to a
Planning Commission Meeting January ll, 1978
Ken Waldrip -
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neighborhood that has this character. I am very
much opposed to the waiving of the topographic study
or any of the provisions placed in the ordinance for ...
the protection of the community's interests in ~
development property. There is already property
on the other side of Galpin Road which is zoned for
84 apartment units. I guess it is something that
ought to be taken into account in any averaging that
is done there. The smallest lot size there now
is 42,700 square feet according to the drawing I
have. You are proposing lots that are a quarter
that size and increasing by a factor of 6 the density
of residents and therefore traffic, etc. I think it
is a very substantial impact on the Hill and I am
very much opposed to it.
I have a number of things to go through. First of all
let me reference your ordinance 47, paragraph 7.05,
subparagraph 6 in which it says the minimum lot width
will be 90 feet. In your Ordinance 33, paragraph 8.06,
subparagraph c, we speak of corner lots. Corner lots
will be l5 feet wider than regular lots, so we come up
with 105 feet. Your Ordinance 47, the definitions on
page 4 under lot width; the front lot line shall be
the boundary mm a lot which is along the existing
dedicated public street. Corner, lot where interior lots
of record exist, and if this plat was approved we would
have interior lots of record, on both the intersecting
streets shall provide for a front yard on both front
streets. The minimum dimension on a corner lot then
must be lOS feet.For that reason alone this plat is in
violation of your own ordinances.
I have here a petition signed by virtually every resident
of Murray Hill. Every resident that surrounds this
property and those away from Murray Hill opposing this
replatting for a number of reasons. (l) On the minimum
size. (2) On the change of the character of the
neighborhood. This is availab~ef:foryour perusal and it
will,go to Mr. Don Ashworth.
Reference your Ordinance 33, paragraph 8.01 states that
any replatting shall be in the public interest. Certainly
with this kind of outcry againstiit this type of
replatting would not be in the public interest. (3) I
have two small children. There are other small children
in the neighborhood. My children ride their bicycles
on these streets. They play in the area. They cross
the streets. The addition of four more houses in this
small area would bring additional craffic and danger to
my children. (4) The city is willing to pay to put the
additional services in for these lots. Why should I and
the other taxp~yers here pay for additional services
when we all paid our own assessments? Your paragraph
8.06 in your Ordinance 33 says, a platting shall take
into account existing historical sites and trees. I
find no such compliance with that. This area was once
known as Hilltop Farm. There are some historic sites
there. 1 see no platting that takes into account those
historic sites. Ordinance 33, paragraphs 9.ll and lO.04
in terms of subwater and drainage requirements have not
been complied with. I would see no reason why those
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Planning Commission Meeting January II, 1978
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should be Wa~ved.
Shirley Waldrip - I am opposed also for all the reasons that have been
stated.
Marvel Eggum - I don't really believe that Mr. Jackson can say that it's
going to be substandard housing when he doesn't know
in fact that housing is even going in there. I am paying
an additional assessment fee from what was levied before
to the tune of about $24,000. I feel I meet the
requirements of the city and I think the plat should be
granted.
Bruce Pankonin - This property was assessed by the city for five lots.
All the lots in the area have deferred assessments.
George Jackson - Town five a.cres~there'and if I did-some averaging I
could get some pretty small lots. I also own a house
that I consider minimal for the Hill. I think this
is one of the problems we are facing here is that
Murray Hill has some pretty substantial homes. The
two homes that you are avera.ging with are pretty
minimal homes and you are putting in some very
minimal lots if you would accept this plat. I don't
think anybody would be' here tonight if the~e were
one less lot there. At least I would not be.
Roman Roos - Would that be true if there was one less lot?
John Gallagher - I am looking at Lot J and I am saying that if it's
approved here obviously it will be approved for us.
I am not saying we are going to do. I would not want
that to happen.
Les' Bridger moved to close the public ,hearing. Motion seconded by
Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:40p.m.
MARVEL EGGUM SUBDIVISION: Jerry Neher moved to table action until
February 8, 1978, at 7:45 p.m. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and
unanimously approved.
PUBLIC HEARING
EAST 'LOTUS LAKE PARK
Roman Roos called the hearing to order at 8:55 p.m. The following
interested persons were present:
John Totino, 6631 Horseshoe curve
Mr. and Mrs. Gordon' Junius,' 330 Pleasant View'.Road
Walter Coudron, 7411 Frontier Trail
Robert Sathre, 365 Pleasant View
Jim Philion, 736l tong View Circle '
Gary Boyle, 7226 Frontier Trail
Orval Larson, 7218 Frontier Trail
Robert Grodahl, 7220 Frontier Trail
Lori Paxton, 7303 Frontier Trail
Robert Scholer, 7212 Frontier Trail'
Darlene Huseth, 7332 Frontier Trail
Don Huseth, 7332 Frontier Trail
'" Wayne Mader, 400 Highland Drive
L. J. Anderson, 400 Cimarron"Circle
Lauren Hillquist, 501'Del Rio Drive
Ladd Conrad, 6625 Horseshoe Curve
Fred Wolter, 7016 Dakota Ci~cle
Planning Commission Meeting January ll, 1978
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Frank Krejca, 7404 Frontier Trail
A. M. Christman, '7008 Cheyenne Trail
Pat Boyle, 502 Del Rio Drive
Phyllis Pope, 7055 Carver Beach Road
Jack Spalding, 7336 FrontierrTrail
Alan Fox,7300 Lar~do Drive'
Mrs. Ted Kelly, l06 Sandy Hook Road
Chuck Hirt, 7007 Cheyenne
Bill Huskins, l02Sandy Hook Road
Elwood McCary, l08 Sandy Hook Road
Russell Larson, Chanhassen
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The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in
the Carver County Herald.
This publis hearing was held to obtain public imput for the preparation
of a conditional use permit for the East Lotus Lake Park to be located
on the northeast end'of Lotus Lake.
Bruce Pankonin - In the spring of 1976, the Council asked staff,
Planning Commission, ,Ecological Committee, and the Park and Recreation
Commission to recommend a suitable access point onto Lotus Lake.
In addition, the Council requested that an implementation program
necessary for this acquisition, construction, and development of a
suitable access be provided. The Minnesota DNR has determined that
the'existing access (Carver Beach) is inadequate and the DNR will
not provide any sanitation programs,rfish management, etc. Staff
and commissions analyzed many properties for a suitable location.and
found this property to be the most suitable location for a public!tIt
access. TheCounciI"-'applied for a LAWCON grant in the amount of
$100,000 to acquire sufficient acreage to develop a boat access and
park. Chanhassen has been funded for this land acquisition.
The DNR has been looking for a suitable access to Lotus Lake. The
location they have found is just north of Colonial Grove and south
of Purgatory Creek.
The hearing was opened for comments from the floor.
Margaret Jumius - Because we got three sewer assessments we are being
forced into building on our property and we want to
build $100,000 houses and nobody is going to buy
those across from a park.
Jim Philion - Is this grant some sort of a matching funds grant? Will
the State continue to maintain it or do we have to pump
money into this thing every year to keep up everything?
Bruce pankonin - The LAWCON Funding is a 75% grant 25% match, one shot
deal. This money is for acquisition only. Development
of this park would probably come out of the park
dedication fee all new houses pay when they are built
in the City.
Mrs. Ted Kelly - It looks like you are inviting restrictions on the
lake that are going to be sooner or later placed on
your own boating. ,Us lakeshore owners who bought
those lake shore lots and paid a high price to h~ve ,~
our boats are going to eventually get cut off. It ,.,
really isn't fair.
Dick Matthews - What kind of time frame do we have?
Bruce pankonin - The property has sewer to it and is assessed. It's
not going to be too much longer before development
Planning Commission Meeting January ll, 1978
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proposals are put forth to use the sewer. The time
frame for development,I would say, between eight and
ten years be.fore it is' develop'ed. 'If the land isn't
acquired at the onset it will ,be gone. The time frame
for acquisition would be immediately upon receipt of
the grant. .
Dick Matthews - with respect to the acquisition Df 'the property, when
is the boat landing going to be-put 'in?
Bruce Pankonin - The boat landing would be developed by the DNR at their
time frame.
Lauren Hillquist - My question is whether or not the park2ng facilities
and the access you have ,proposed: are suitable to
meet the DNR requirements? '
Bruce Pankonin - We have talked to DNR representatives and sa~td; "Would
a public access with trailer parking for approximately
ten boats satisfy your criteria?''', They felt it would.
Roman Roos - In order to get the benefits of the DNR we have to have
public access. If we have to have public access one of
the things we are trying to do is put it as much under
city control as we' can.- This is'what we are trying to do.
Lauren Hillquist - I think 'you will find that the DNR has very definite
guidelines as to number of parking places and the
surface that must be provided down to the lake for
the launch itself.
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Jim Philion - Does that mean they are going to'close the Carver Beach
'access?
Bruce Pankonin - The' access -in Carver Beach is a',platted street that
end's in the lake. The Couilcilbelieves that the
access: in Carver Beach is 'totally ,inadequate. There
is no off-street parking. 'Theyare not looking at
Carver Beach being an access.
Larry Anderson - If they cleaned up Carver Beach which was satisfactory
to the DNR for years, we have essentially limited the
traffic on the lake by parking already at that location,
it was previously satisfactory with ,theDNR, do we
know that thatitwouldn'tbesa.tisfactory to them
right now? We could regain fish management immediately
with 'four or 'five'loads of gravel there and we are
back in business. 'I am not against acquiring future
park land but 'it ,looks to me like setting a park up
at the intersection of Eden Prairie and Minnetonka
away from central Chanhassen just'doesn't make sense.
Bruce pankonin - We anticipate that there will be about 2600 people
living within one-half mile walk from this park in
the not to: distant future.:There'cann6tbe a
sUibableaccess built'in'Carver'Beach because there
isn't suitable land available to put a parking area
and still stay back away from the lake 50 feet that it
has to be.'
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Ladd:Conrad.- I am wondering how this fits into ,the total long range
plans ofChanhassen for parks. I know we took a survey
not too long ago wondering what ,the 'people of the city
wanted as' far .as the type of parks, the size of parks,
the trails. I assume ,from that somebody would have
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Planning Commission Meeting January ll, 1978
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Roman Roos -
developed some 'kind of long range plan and I am wondering
if this fits into the results of that. ~
The Park and Recreation Commission which formulated that ~
survey,it was the general consensus that this is the ideal
location for a park and this is how this park came into
being. They took that survey and looked at all the
different comments and weighed the general points on it
along with the guidelines they had set up and this is
where they pinpointed.
Bill Huskins - It seems to me we have got several things. One is
the question of the funds and the support we can get
through the DNR toward funding this. Another one is
the problem of' what goes on'on the lakeo and a third
one becomes the funds necessary to develop all the
things that are' associated with a park. It seems to me
that they have got to be treated each one just that way.
I think that we need to have a specific understanding
with DNR that this or a facet of this park can and will
be'developed which will satisfy their needs. I think
you need to have an understanding of how large that
road will be that you are going to build down there
to, satisfy DNR's needs. If the understanding is that
it's not going to take 50 foot long house boats with
100 HP because you are not going to dredge the lake
then I. think that needs to be specified and told to
them. I think it needs to be an understanding and that
will satisfy some of the community's concern about what tit
will be brought into the lake via that means. The
third thing is to put the park development aspect into
a park development aspect program. I dontt think that
all of those things are treated each one in its own
element, each one with itssown funding, each one with
its own impact 'on the community and I suggest that that
be tried.
Margaret Juihius - If the ide:a is to encourage this for public access
to the lake and for fishermen and this sort of thing,
what is the need for the softball and all the cars
that will be parked in there? Why is it necessary
to have that kind of park?
Dick Matthews - As that community grows up there, there will be a need
for a park. The park isn't going to go in until there
is a need~
Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded
by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 9:35 p.m.
REPLAT LOTS 9 AND lO, BLOCK I, ST. HUBERTUS: Bob Scholer was present
seeking approval to replat Lots 9 and lO, Block 1 into two lots and
rezoning from R-I toR-lB.: 'sanitary sewer and water are available A
to the property. Lot lO has been assessed one sewer and water unit ~
and Lot 9 one sewer unit. An area variance would be required as the
proposed lot has 8,520 square feet. The City Planner recommended the
Planning Commission deny this request on the grounds that the required
zoning is a spot zone, it would permit additional housing on a lot of
Planning Commission Meeting January ll, 1978
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substandard area and that individual properties should not egress onto
a collector street.
~ The property is owned by Willard Pauly. The exis~ing home will be on '
one of the proposed lots. Mr. Scholer proposes to bui18 a home on the
vacant lot that will meet all setback requirements.
Members commented on the proposal.
Jerry Neher - I have lived in the neighborhood for 16 years and as Bob
has pointed out there has been three more houses built
on 60 foot lots right in the neighborhood. I think this
would lend itself, a much better looking situation than
what we have got just one block from there where you don't
know where one man's lot ends and another one begins.
I would rather see this any day. Another thing I have
noticed is that every house on the other side of the road
is facing Frontier Trail. This is nothing more than what
they have done with the house in the same block on Lots 1
and 2. They have cut those two lots in two and run the
houses the same way that he is proposing.
Dick Matthews - I agree with you. I think the lot needs to be ~illed
in with a home.
Roman Roos - I agree with Jerry's comments.
Dick Matthews moved to hold a public hearing February 8, 1978, at 8:15
p.m. to consider the subdivision of Lots 9 and 10 and rezoning from R-l
to R-lB. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved.
4It Mal MacAlpine left the meeting at 10:00 p.m.
CHANHASSEN LAKES NORTH: Rod Hardy and Stelios Aslanidis were present.
The property is located on the east side of Powers Blvd. and south of
Carver Beach Road. For development purposes it has been divided into
three parcels; Parcel A contains 49.08 acres and is proposed to be
developed at 2.08 units per acre, Parcel B contains 75.25 acres at
three units per acre and Parcel C contains 32.l4 acres at 4.42 units
per acre. They plan to develop Parcel A at this time. It will contain
100 single family lots. MSAS 101 will follow the southern edge of
Parcel A. Two existing ponding areas will be retainedtohdld water
runoff.
Members generally liked the proposal and encouraged Dunn and Curry
to proceed with preliminary development plans.
ANNUAL REPORT: Members were given the annual report and will study it
for the next meeting.
COMMUNITY CRIME PREVENTION IN PLANNING: Les Bridger suggested the
Planning Commission invite Mr. Douglas Frisbee, Director of Community
Crime Prevention, Crime Control Planning Board to discuss how a
Planning Commission can look at crime prevention and control from the
very start of building procedures.
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Jerry Neher moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and
unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at ll:OO p.m.
Don Ashworth
City Manager