1978 02 08
REGULA~ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FEBRUARY 8, 1978
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Roman Roos called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following
members present: Jerry Neher, Hud Hollenback, Dick Matthews, and Walter
Thompson. Mal MacAlpine and Les Bridger were absent.
MINUTES: Jerry Neher moved to approve the January 25, 1978, Planning
Commission minutes. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews. The following
voted in favor: Roman Roos, Jerry Neher, Dick Matthews, and Walter
Thompson. Hud Hollenback abstained. Motion carried.
ELIZABETH SWEIGER SUBDIVISION: The Planning Commission held a public
hearing on the proposed subdivision and recommended the Council approve
the division. The survey did not reflect an 18 foot easement along
Melody Hill Road. The Council returned this proposed subdivision to
the Planning Commission for reconsideration of a variance to the
frontage requirements for the proposed lots. Staff recommended the
Planning Commission find Mrs. Sweiger's subdivision request to be
consistent with the spirit and intent of the city's plan for land use,
transportation, utilities, and zoning if the corner lot remains 105 feet
wide and the Planning Commission recommends a variance to Ordinance 33,
Section 8.06 which would allow the interior lots to be a minimum of
87~5 feet. In addition, the Planning Commission should instruct
the applicant to prepare the final plat pursuant to Ordinance 33,
Section 10.04. This plat should be expanded to include all the
properties in Lot D, Bardwell Acres, if possible. In addition, the
Planner recommended that Mrs. Sweiger and her neighbors along Chaska
Road apply for city water.
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Jerry Neher moved to recommend the Council grant the resubdivision
for Elizabeth Sweiger with the stipulation that the easterly most
lots will have 87.5 feet of frontage each and the corner lot have
105 feet of frontage. The Planning Commission further recommends that
the subdivider petition for city water. Motion seconded by Walter
Thompson and unanimously approved.
MARVEL EGGAM SUBDIVISION: Letters were sent to all the neighoors
notifying them of this meeting. Several neighbors were present. On
January 11, 1978, the planningCommiss.ion tabled. action on thihs request
to give staff time to answer the issues raised at the public hearing.
The Planner contacted the Minnesota State Historical Society and found
that no parcel in the Murray Hill area is of "historic or archaeological"
significance. Mr. Eggam's proposed subdivision will meet all city
standards if the following were taken into account:
1. If he moved the north lot line of Lots 1, 3, and 4 within ten
feet of the existing structure.
2. The dimensions of Lot 2 were changed to read 106 x 135.
3. The dimensions of Lot 1 were changed to read 90 x 135.
Mr. Eggam presented a revised drawing which meets the dimensional
requirements of the R-l use district.
The Planner recommended that he does not feel the city has any option
but to authorize the subdivision as proposed as the revised plan meets
all city requirements.
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Hud Hollenback moved to deny the subdivision request. Motion died for
lack of a second.
Hud Hollenback - I think this is the type of pressure that a lot of
Planning Commission Meeting February 8, 1978
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our neighborhoods are going to feel with sewer. I would vote to deny
the replatting. I am fairly familiar with that part of town and I
think we are being pressured by the council, realtors, and citizens
to open up estate type developments in other parts of the city. Here
we have them and even with the assessments and interest, etc. I think
it would still behoove the city to look at it carefully versus going
out, ten miles out another road and opening up another estate
development just to make the people happy that want one. If we did
deny the petition to subdivide, I don't think we would be doing
those people any real favor. I don't know how long they could
support the type of lots and homes they have but according to the
City Planner these things (assessments) may be called next year
or they may never be called depending on other development in that
area. For those reasons I would vote to deny it.
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Jerry Neher - I am in reverse of Hud due to the fact there are
assessments placed on the property there are deferred assessments.
There is nothing to say that it's going to continue on to the point
where we are not going to have to call those assessments in. I
think we have to look at the whole city and eventually it has to
come that the lots are going to be subdivided and I can't feel there
is anything to be gained by prolonging it or putting it off. We need
sewer hook ups. I would be in favor of granting it.
Jerry Neher moved to recommend the Council approve the preliminary
plat for Marvel Eggam dated February 8, 1978, and grant a variance
to the Subdivision Ordinance wherein the requirement for topog~aphic
data be waived. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson. The following ~
voted in favor: Roman Roos, Jerry Neher, Dick Matthews, and Walter ..,
Thompson. Hud Hollenback voted no. Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING
REPLATTING OF LOTS 9 AND 10, BLOCK 1, ST. HUBERTUS
Roman Roos called the public hearing to order at 8:25 p.m. The
following interested persons were present:
Robert Scholer, 7212 Frontier Trail
Willard Pauly, 7721 Frontier Trail
Don SChmieg, 7703 Erie
Craig Mertz
The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in
the Carver County Herald.
Mr. Scholer is requesting resubdivision of Lots 9 and 10, Block 1,
St. Hubertus and lot area variance and frontage variance to the R-l
requirements. The proposed resubdivision would maintain the individual
10t size of 8520 square feet.
Adolph Tessness previously stated to the City Planner that he had no
objection to the subdivision.
Mr. Scholer explained that there were two assessments for sewer and
two assessments for water but only one unit assessment for each e
against the existing house. The lots will remain the same size.
Walter Thompson moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded
by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at
8:40 p.m.
Planning Commission Meeting February 8, 1978
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ROBERT SCHOLER - REPLATTING OF LOTS 9 AND 10, BLOCK 1, ST. HUBERTUS:
Dick Matthews moved to recommend the Council accept the replatting of
Lots 9 and 10, Block 1, St. Hubertus Addition in accordance with
public hearing exhibit A dated February 8, 1978. Motion seconded by
Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved.
Members commented on
Dick Matthews - This
spirit and intent of
neighborhood"both in
point of view.
Jerry Neher - It is my opinion that it would be an improvement to the
neighborhood.
Hud Hollenback - The replatting would still maintain the same square
foot area and it would allow another dwelling to be built on a vacant
lot.
Walter Thompson - It will lend itself with that neighborhood and with
the sewer assessments attached to it, fully utilize it.
Roman Roos - I echo the sentiments of Hud in reference to the use of
the property.
the proposed replatting.
proposed replatting does
the neighborhood. It is
square footage and,in my
not adversely affect the
in keeping with the
opinion, in an aesthetic
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PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN - CARVER'S POINT: Ed Dunn, Rod Hardy,
Stelios As~anidis, Jim Hill, Joe Betz, T'oinKlingelhutz, John Peter-s,
and Shirley Clasen were present. The developer's, are proposing to
rezone the property located south of Carver Beach Road from R-lAto'
P-l and subdivide,the property into 100 building sites.
The City Planner gave his report. The open space section iD!6the
guide plan for t.he neighborhood suggests that it may be desirable' to
acquire an active play area located in the northeast portion of the
proposed plat. There is an existing t.otlot across Carver Beach Road.
The Building Inspector commented on the proposal. He feels the lots
abutting County Road 17 and MSAS 101 should have additional depth
so as to provide screen plantings." He furth.er felt that the
intersection of Carver Beach Road and Penamint could be dangerous.
The Fire Marshal also questioned the Penamint/Carver Beach Road
intersection.
The City Planner recommended that the applicant work closely with the
Building Inspector, City Engineer, and Planner to develop a suitable
landscape screening along County Road 17 and MSAS 101. In addition,
the developer should work closely with the Building Inspector to
design a street naming plan which will not be confusing. The Planning
Commission should order a public hearing to test neighborhood sentiment
on the proposed PRD.
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The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the proposed development
on February 7,. 1978, and recommended that' the Carver's Point children
would be better served with a neighborhood playground in or adjacent
to the proposed development. This neighborhood playground shou'ld
be provided with safe pedestrian access and provide a means to get
over or under MSAS 101. Before making any recommendation, the Park
'and Recreation Commission would like to review the developer's total
concept and plan for the area and after reviewal make a formal reply
to the Planning Commission. This neighborhood playground should
be designed to meet the needs of all the residents.
Planning Commission Meeting February 8, 1978
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Bill Brezinsky gave a report. The developer has provided for 60 foot
rights-of-way for the three proposed streets. City ordinance calls
for 50 feet. This additional 30 feet could be added to the lots along
County Road 17 for screening and buffering purposes.,without disrupting e
the interior design. The Engineer feels that the intersection of
Carver Beach Road and Penamint is not dangerous as it is at the top
of a hill and would allow good sight distance.
Hud Hollenback movedto'h6ld a public hearing on the proposed rezoning
and subdivision of'Carver's Point on March 8, 1978, at 7:45 p.m. Motion
seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved.
PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN - CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK: Ed Dunn,
Rod Hardy, Jim Hill, Stelios Aslanidis,Joe Betz, Tom Klingelhutz, John
Peters, ~nd ~hirley Clasen were ~re~ent. The applic~ntlsproposing to
rezone propertysbuth of Highway 5 and east of County Road 17 from R-lA
to P-4., and subdivide into numerous industrial lots.
The City Planner gave his report. The adopted city plan as amended
in 1976 indicates this area to be planned industrial development.
Local access to this property will be via new County Road 17 and a
detached frontage road commencing at new County: Road l7 arid terminating
at l84th Street on the east end of the city. County Road 17 will
be built by the county in 1979. The City Council, on February 6, 1978,
ordered a public improvement hearing to consider bringing trunk sewer
and water to the property. The Planner suggested that the. Carver
County Director of Public Works should approve all the intersections
with the county road for sight distance. A linear open space corridor
should be preserved for future development along the entire length
of the proposed Lake Ann Interceptor sewer. The proposal provides
for access to the Lutheran Church of the Living Christ from the
frontage road which will provide better access than the present road
on state Highway 5. The Planner recommended the Planning Commission
order a public hearing on the proposal.
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The plans have been submitted to the watershed district for their
recommendations and comments. .
Jerry Neher moved to hold a public hearing to consider rezoning and
subdivision for Chanhassen Lakes Business Park on March 8, 1978, at
8:30 p.m. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved.
PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN - MTS SYSTEM CORPORATION: MTS is
proposing to construct a 160,000 square foot manu~acturingjoffice
facility along the south side of HighwayS in Hennepin County.
The Planning Commission should consider amending the present approved
PUD to allow this use.
Dick Matthews moved to hold a public hearing to consider amending
the PUD agreement with Ken Beiersdorf on March 8, 1978, at 9:30 p.m.
Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved.
COUNCIL MINUTES:
Council minutes.
Hud Hollenback moved to note the January 23, 1978,
Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved.
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Planning commission Meeting February 8, 1978
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SKETCH PLAN - OUTLOT A, MINNEWASHTA CREEK: Robert Ritter was present
to discuss his proposed development 10catedin the southwest quadrant
of Highway 7 and County Road 15. Mr. Ritter is proposing to subdivide
the property into 15 single family lots and 19 double family lots
and rezone to P-l.
The City Planner and Engineer feel a curb cut onto Highway 7 is not
justified and all traffic should be routed to County Road 15. The
Planner feels the development should be restricted to single family
detached dwellings with local access onto County Road 15. The
applicant could, through the PUD process, come up with a more
creative plan that would incorporate a few duplexes on the property.
He recommended the Planning Commission look with disfavor on the
proposal but instruct the applicant to proceed with a preliminary
plat which would have local access onto County Road 15.
Members felt that if the developer wishes to proceed he should;
1. Provide access from County Road 15 only.
2. Provide noise barriers along State Highway 7, and
3. Mix the double bungalows with the single family homes but not
exceed a gross density of 2.5 dwelling units per acre.
LOTUS LAKE COMMUNITY PARK - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT: Joe Betz, Phyllis
Pope, and Wally Coudron of the Park and Recreation Commission and
Don Ashworth were present. Phyllis Pope noted that ]:lfle survey mentioned
in the public hearing minutes of January ll, 1978, was originated by
,.the Ecological Committee not the Park and Recreation Commission.
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The City Planner recommended that,based on the public testimony,
knowledge of the general area, and sound planning principles that the
Council develope a public access on the Near Mountain Property commonly
called East Lotus Lake Community Park and that this access should be
developed at a sufficient scale so as to satisfy the DNR so they
will do their maintenance programs. This does not mean that the DNR
would own or operate this access but would comply with their criteria.
The development of the East Lotus Lake Community Park, the playground,
ballfields, skating rinks, etc. should be held in abeyance until the
neighborhood matures.
The Park and Recreation Commission will obtain information from the
DNR on their minimum standards for a boat access onto Lotus Lake.
The Chairman of the Park and Recreation Commission will be sent a
copy of Planning Commission agendas.
SKETCH PLAN - FEED MILL PROPERTY: A letter was read from the HRA
asking the Planning Commission to take no action on this proposal
until they can make a recommendation.
Hud Hollenback moved to refer these plans to the HRA for comments
and recommendation. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously
approved.
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Planning Commission Meeting February 8, 1978
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ESTATE DEVELOPMENTS:
1. Proposition. In the spring of 1977, the Chanhassen Planning
Commission undertook a study to consider relaxing city ordinance 45 by ~
allowing subdivisions of land in areas of the community which are not
served with sanitary sewer. The common moniker the Planning Commission
and staff placed on this subject was "Estate Developments". Staff
and commission have defined estate types of developments to mean
land use patterns accq~odating urban type persons in a rural economy
and environment. , ,
2. Market. To get a handle on market pressures, the Planning
Commission, on two occasions, discussed the proposition of opening up
the rural ar.ea of the community to subdivisions of land with lOcal
realtors. As shown in the Planning Commission minutes, a meaningful
dialogue developed with local realtors. It was the feeling of the local
realtors that there are strong market demands for 2~ to 5 acre parcels
of land. The realtors emphasized these parcels of land should not
be obtained from dividing ~gricultural land i,nto e_s1::ates; but rather,
estate types of subdivisJons shoutd have' a high, amEm.:j.,ty package such
steep slopes, views, vistas, woodland ~nd other natural pl:1ysical feastures.
3. Principal Hypothesis Offered by study. The principal hypothesis
offered by the planner is that the uncontrolled proliferation of new
housing.starts, in the,unsewered portion of the city, will adversely
affect the health, safety and welfare of the commgnity. By encouraging
development to locate'in the sewered portions ofth~ city, however,
will insure that private developments will follow public development,
rather. than the reverse, which has been the traditional pattern. It
is hoped that such practices will promote the use of already existing
public facilities to their maximum capacity and will also minimize
additional investments, particularly those of an unplanned and
unexpected nature.
4. History of Bonded Debt. Since the late 1950's the Chanhassen
City Council, out of necessity, was forced to extend sanitary sewer
service to approximately 3,000 acres of residential land. Said
improvements have resulted in a public debt of approximately 12.9
million dollars (principal and interest). Said debt is totally due
and payable by 1993.
5. Holding Capacity. Resultant holding capacity (potential people)
because of sanitary sewer service being available to approximately
3,000 acres is 2l,OOO people living in an anticipated 6500 dwelling
units (6500 dwelling units being the number of assumed trunk
assessments in the sewered portions of the city). Presently 2300
trunk units have been assessed within Chanhassen's sewered portions
of the community.
6. Propensity to Absorb New Housing Starts. The Metropolitan
Council estimates Chanhassen's 1990 population to be 14,000 people.
Parenthetically, the city planner has no way of proving of disproving
the Metropolitan Council forcast. It is the planner's feeling,
however, the Metropolitan Council has used the most sophisticated
methods in these calculations, and that reasonable arguments showing
, ~n accelerated growth beyone Metropolitan Council forcasts would
, 'be difficult to develop'i
7. Bond Schedu~es. Analyzing the fiscal implications of Chahhassen's
bond schedules, leads the planner to believe the city may. be facing
a financial problem in the early 1980's.
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Planning Commission Meeting, February 8, 1~78
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8. North Service Area Bond Schedule. In the early 1970's the
Chanhassen City Council was forced with the decision of providing
sanitary sewer service to the northern margins of the community. The
resoltant public improvement (North Service Area) resulted in a total
debt of approximately $4.~ million. ,As shOwn in the city engineer's
report dated February 1978, the North Service Area could experience
problems in the early 1980's if the city council does not re-assess
the project. ,
9. Planner's Recommendation. The planner recommends the city adopt
a pol~cy of channeling all new growth into those areas of the city
which are currently served with sanitary sewer. $aid channeling of
growth, has been termed by the city planner as the "Urban Reservoir
Concept~. ,
Outward urban expansion of the Twin City Metropolitan Area, which
has been occuring during the last one-quarter century is and will
continue to transform areas of "rural" Chanhassen into an urban
economy and environment. The urban reservoir concept proposed to
delineate those areas of the city which will have to undergo
urbanization by the year 1990.
The urban reservoir concept is based primarily on existing urban
development, availability of sanitary sewer and water expansion,
vehicular access, both existing and planned, and enthusiastic
population growth allocated for Chanhassen as a proportion of total
metropolitan growth.
Within Chanhassen, the urban reservoir concept would divide the
city into three distinct types of land use areas:
Urban Reservoir: The urban reservoir is that area which is or will
be developing into a residential density so as to payoff the city's
encumbered debt (approximately 3,000 acres - 21,000 people).
Sub-Urban Reservoir: The sub-urban area is proposed to be urbanized
after the city can see a positive cash flow to the existing debt.
The sub-urban area is that area of the community (approximately
1,800 acres - l2,000 people) which is served by the Lake Ann
Interceptor Phase II.
Rural Area: The rural area of the community which should remain
rural until after the sub-urban reservoir reaches saturation and
sanitary sewer is provided to the Bluff Creek Watershed.
10. Public Benefits of the Urban Reservoir Concept.
a. By channeling all growth of the city into the existing sewer
service area will help pay the city's existing debt.
b. By leaving the sub-urban and rural area in an open state~ will
allow an orderly development into these areas after the installation
of sanitary sewer.
c. Without growth in the sub-urban and rural area, the potential
for increased public investments (new roads, sewer, water, police
and fire protection) will be reduced and said capital costs can be
channeled into the existing urban reservoir.
d. The city's infrastructure (sewer, water, roads, and drainage)
is not developed to a sufficient scale to handle development other
than the existing rural economy and environment.
Comments by Planning Commission members.
Hud Hollenback - I agree with you 100%.
Jerry Neher - Amen.
Dick Matthews - I don't have any trouble with this.
Walter Thompson - I agree.
Roman Roos - I don't think there is any place but to agree,as much
as I would like to say to the contrary.
Planning Commission Meeting February 8, 1978
-8-
Dick Matthews moved that the Planning Commission feels the uncontrolled
proliferation of new housing starts in the unsewered portion of the ~
city will adversely affect the health, safety, and welfare of the ..,
community. By encouraging development to locate in the sewered portion
of the city, however, this will insure private development will
follow public development rather than the reverse which has been
the case. It is hoped that such practices will promote the use
of already existing public facilities to their maximum capacity
and will also maintain additional investments, particularly those
of an unplanned and unexpected nature. Motion seconded by Walter
Thompson and unanimously approved.
Dick Matthews moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and
unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 12:03 a.m.
Don Ashworth
City Manager
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