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1978 03 08 REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ~RCH 8, 1978 e Roman Roos called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Les Bridger, Dick Matthews, and Hud Hollenback. Jerry Neher came at 7:45 p.m. Mal MacAlpine and Walter Thompson were absent. MINUTES: Hud Hollenback moved to approve the February 22, 1978, Planning Commission minutes as written. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews. The following voted in favor: Roman Roos, Hud Hollenback, and Dick Matthews. Les Bridger abstained. Motion carried. Hud. Hollenback moved to note the February 21, 1978, Council minutes. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING CARVER POINTE SUBDIVISION AND REZONING The Chairman called the public hearing to order at 7:45 p.m. The following interested persons were present: Bill Brezinsky Walt Hobbs, 6671 Powers Blvd. W. E. Engebretson, 1401 Greenwood Drive A1 K1inge1hutz, 8601 Great Plains Blvd. Jim Knop, 6800 Nez Perce Ste1ios As1anidis, 2614 Nico11et Ave., Mp1s. Ed Dunn, 4940 Viking Drive, Mp1s. .. Jim Hill, 8200 Humboldt Ave. So., Mp1s. Rodney Hardy, 4940 Viking Drive, Mp1s. ~ Notice of the public hearing was published in the Carver County Herald on February 22, 1978, and notices were mailed to property owners within 350 feet of the subject property. This public hearing is to consider rezoning 46 acres from R-1A to P-1 and subdivide into 100 lots. The property is located south of Carver Beach Road and east of Powers Blvd. The City Planner gave his report. The Park and Recreation Commission met March 7, 1978, but the Planning Commission did not receive their input for the public hearing. Sanitary sewer and water are available to the property. The Planner recommended that Dunn and Curry prepare a landscape p1an,during the final development plans, to break up the vertical relief along the arterial streets (MSAS 101 and Powers Blvd.). There isa platted paper street bisecting the property which will have to be vacated. The Council will act on this vacation. The Planner recommended the Planning Commission look with favor on this proposed PUD provided a landscape plan is prepared and develope street names that will not be confusing. He recommended that strict conservation practices be incorporated when grading is planned. e Staff received a letter from Hibbert Hill questioning an element of the plan. The City Engineer will answer these concernsoin his report. The primary access to the property will be provided by MSAS 101. This is scheduled for construction this year. All intersections shown provide for adequate site distance. Interior streets will be 28 feet wide with concrete curb and gutter. Sanitary and water service will be provided by connection to a trunk system that was constructed as a Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -2- part of the Carver Beach project. Assessments will be levied against this development in the amount of $166,766.00. Mr. Hill expressed concern about the impact of the development would 4It have on the down stream properties, particularly the creek that abuts his property. The run off will be collected through an interior storm sewer system. The flow from about 19 acres in the north part of the proposed development will be directed to a ponding area and stored. The pond will be designed to handle the run off from a 100 year storm. The outlet from the pond will be designed so as to reduce the outflow from the pond to about l3to l5% of the inflow. A second pond will be constructed in the southeast part of the property. This will pick up runoff from about 9.6 acres. Water will be held in the pond and outflow will be about l5% of the inflow. The overflow from the two ponds and the runoff from the remainder of the area will flow under MSAS lOl to a low area. This drainage plan has been submitted to the Riley Purgatory Creek Watershed District Board of Managers for review and comment. The hearing was opened for comments from the floor. Jim Knop - On the vacating of West 68th Street, I use part of that for a driveway. Bruce Pankonin - If the roadway were vacated by the Council you and Bob Buesgens who is your neighbor to the north, would get half of that right-of-way. Jim Knop - I think the road vacation is great. Ted Coey, 7021 Carver Beach Road - How much disruption in the general neighborhood is that going to cause by having a whole . bunch of houses in there? I am most concerned about having a mess on Carver Beach Road because that's the main road that the residents in that area use to get in and out and I am not dying to have a mud bath in there. Bruce pankonin - The primary access to this property will be from MSAS 10l which will be a much wider roadway than the Carver Beach roadway. The density of the development is about 2.45 dwelling units per net acre. That's lower than Chanhassen Estates. There will probably be about 320 people living in these 100 homes. TedCoey - What's that going to do to that Carver Beach Park with all those kids moving in? Bruce Pankonin - This is one of the concerns we noted in our review. We note that the Carver Beach Park is really under useddand we suggested that the Park and Recreation Commission determine what type of facilities should go into Carver Beach Park so that you get more use. There will have to be park land dedication. The Park and Recreation Commission should decide what improvements should be made to this neighborhood park. The geographic area is confined,possib1y some other uses, instead of a softball diamond a tennis court or something like that, a tot lot or a park shelter. Bill Brezinsky - Construction traffic would use .MSAS 101. ~ Planning Commission ~eeting ~arch 8, 1978 '-3- e Walt Hobbs - Do those lots go right through the ponding area in terms of title? Rod Hardy - Yes, with easements back to the city. Walt Hobbs - How long is the cul-de-sac below the pond? BrucePankonin- It is about 450 feet. . Walt Hobbs - What is the variance in the lot sizes from the smallest to the largest? Bruce pankonin - The lots range is size from lO,500, the average is 16,509 square feet. Walt Hobbs - The average includes the lots that ,go through the pond. Bruce Pankonin - Yes. The overall gross density of this development is 2.4 dwelling uriiits> per acre. Walt Hobbs - From the variation. in, ,the1ot:s.izes maybe we could ask the dev.eloper what he anticipates the Variation in the cost of housing to be. Jim Hill ~ In any development obviously the size of lot is important. The size of lot in any development in any municipality will determine. the cost of the lot including the cost of the land. In this particular case most of the lots are 85 to 110 wide so what will dictate the cost of the lot will be their location basically, not necessarily the size of the lot. The cost of a'home today not only has a lot of other factors but the cost of the home also is what you are paying for the lot. If we make the assumption that these lots are going to be something in the order of $15,000, just for talking purposes, the homes in here are going to be $60,000 to $75,000. There is no way you are going to get around it. Roman Roos - What'you are really trying to do is cover the range. Jim Hill - Yes. - A1 K1inge1hutz -On thepbnding areas, is there access, to them in case the city ever has to go in there and clean them out? Jim Hill - Yes~ There are easements thrbughout:to the city. Walt Hobbs -I would like to hear the Planning Commission's comments on the smaller 10,500 square foot lots. Hud Hollenback moved to close the public' hearing. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:20 p.m. CARVER POINTE: Members commented on Walt's question of lot sizes; ~ , - Jerry Neher -I feel that many people just like myself do not want a very big lot to take' care of' for: physical reasons and 'otherwise. I. have no problems with: small lots in a PUD. Hud Hollenback - Let's as'sume you buIld. the same home on a 10,000 foot 'lot. and a 15,000 foot lot. Are you looking at $5,000 difference? : JIm Hill - The price of the home could be equal or, the price of the home on the 10,000 could be in excess of the 15,000. In the City of Edina some of the lots 'are:. very small and the homes are ov'er 1/'4 ,million ,do1lar's . Lot .sizes that are equal to these are putting 1/4 million dollar homes on them. ' Dick Matthews.... I would hope that with a smaller lot size which would more than likely dictate a lower cost of the 10t,would then accommodate a Eroa1ler less expensive home which Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -4- would then allow that an individual who could afford to move in that house. What we are trying to accomplish here is to make a community for as many people or ~ accommoda te as many people as we c.an and not the 1/4 _ million dollar type necessarily. I would hope that it might have .the three bedroom or smaller home that people could afford to move into this area. Hud Hollenback - I don't have any hang up about smaller lots. I don't really know what it can accomplish because it may end up as expensive as a larger lot. If I were a developer I would like the smaller lots because that means mOre units. I have a problem with all the small lots lined up .together. Les Bridger ~ I think the small lots would probably require, in most cases, a certain type of home, different in style, shape, etc. thana larger lot. I think I agree withHud in the way that these smaller lots happen to appear in a row. Jim Hill - If you were to ignore the environmental conditions that we have today and those are theponding areas that we now see on the property, if we said to heck with those we are going to go by code, put in 15,000 square foot lots and meet code under standard conditions, we would be able to obtain 110 lots. We recognize that runoff, siltation, erosion and natural environment, the natural amenities that we have on the site are important, not only to us as the city but also to the home buyer because he wants that kind of a neighborhood. We have planned this so that we can keep those things and by keeping those kinds of amenities that we want upstream from storm water runoff we have ~ reduced down to 100 lots and what we are doing in order - to keep the amenities that we see there today we are asking for planned development and a few lots that are less than 15,000. The overall average exceeds code. Bruce Pankonin - I doubt if the casual visitor who is driving down Redwing Lane where these lots are, will notice the difference between a 10,500 square foot lot and a 12,000 square foot lot. The thing that you feel is the width of the lot on the road and that gives you the spacing between houses. These smaller lots are 80 feet wide, 90, 90, 90, 90, 80, and 80. The lots directly north of this which are 12,000, 13,000 square feet in area start out 70, 70, 80, 80, 100. The sm(;l.ll lots are'actlia11y wider than the large lots to the north because of the curve in the road. Les Bridger - I think it's a good plan. I guess I have got a little bit of reservation as I said earlier in agreeing with Hud on some of those smaller lots but I think generally I like the idea. I think the ponding areas and runoff situation has been handled very equitably and I think the answers to the questions that Mr. Hill had have been answered very effectively. Roman Roos - I have lived on 40 foot lots in south Minneapolis. I guess when we are looking at a PRO I would generally ... take and view it in an overall characteristic and I am _ looking at the dwelling units per and if we are holding 2.45,1 would have to go along with that. We have wrestled with the 15,000 square foot problem many, many times in Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -5- - the last year. Walt, I don't know if 15,000 is a good number or not. There is people say 12,000 should be, 'some say 10,000. I guess if we are looking at a PRD smaller lots can be used and used very effectively in terms', of the type of housing they put on it. It appears there has been a fairly effective layout procedure to give you a lot,that is not very narrow but has a reasonable 'squareness to it or area to it. On that basis I can't see anything wrong with it. Walt Hobbs - I am not hung up on 15,000 square foot lots either. I do think that you have to look at how they spacia11y work within the plat. Jerry Neher moved to table action'until later this evening or until the next meeting . Motion seconded by Les' ,Bridger and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK - Roman Roos called' the hearing to' order at '8:45 p.m..' The following interested persons were present: Keith Bartz, 8411 Great Plains Blvd. Don and Jeff Slathar, 8508 Great Plains Blvd. Alex Krengel, 8009 Cheyenne Ivan Payne:, ,7612 Kiowa Jim Benshoof, BRW Harley Robinson,8502 Great Plains B1vd~ Don Ga1e,8402 Great Plains Blvd. A1 Klinge1hutz, 860l"GreatPlains Blvd. Walter Paulson, 8528 Great Plains Blvd. Rod Vo1k, 17141 Cedar Crest Dr., Eden prairme (Lutheran Church of the Living Christ) Richard Muggli, 410 Santa Fe Circle- Wayne Ho1tmeier, 8524 Great ,Plains Blvd. Roger Casey, 8506 Great Plains Blvd. A1 Sinnen, 8150 Grand'View Robert and Priscilla Armstrong"8400 Great Plains Blvd. Doug B1oemke,'8504Great Plains Blvd. Don Schmieg, 7703 Erie Robert and Suzan Bach, 8404 Great'P1ains Blvd~ 'Russe11ancL Edna Lawrence,-:8520 Great Plains Blvd. Notice of the public hearing was published in the Carver County Herald on February 22,1978, and notices were mailed to property owners within 350 feet of the subject property. - The public hearing is,to consider rezoning approximately 276 acres from R-lA toP-4.' The property is -located generally north and northwest of Lake Susan, south of Highway 5 and east of County Road 17. Traffic circulation to the property will be via'existing'County Road 17, new County Road l7 and a detached" frontage, road parallel 'with Highway 5. The initial area for deve1opment'is just south of the Lutheran Church of the Living Christ and north 'of" Lake Susan. The Metropolitan Council has approved Chanhassen'sComprehensive Plan that indicates this area to be industrial. Included in the plan was a'provision for linear green space movement along: the north shore of Lake Susan. This right- Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -6- of-way is being preserved for future use. Theshoreland area of Lake Susan is not a part of this plat. There is a 100 foot right-of-way easement for a future trail bisecting the property. " . I Bruce Pankonin - I feel as City Planner, this development will many, many positive far reaching implications the City of'Chanhassen. It should provide an p1ace'for residents to work; it should be advantageous ," for the city's tax base and it should generally be a' totalas'set for~ the communi ty. have for excellent e Mr. Jim Benshoof, BRW, presented the traffic study along Highway 5 as authorized by the City Council. Traffic generated by the Dunn and Curry development (Chanhassen Lakes Business Park), MTS Systems Corporation, future development of Chanhassen Estates Outlot 2, and the Sinnen'property directly south of the American Legion Club warrants a detached continuous frontage road from new CSAH 17, on the west, and terminating at 184th Street on the east. The City Engineer gave his report. He has reviewed the traffic report and agrees with it and it agrees with the Engineer's previous reports. The proposed frontage road west of Highway 101 could be,' ' built to a 44 foot minimum up to 52 feet with four lanes. The developer would be required to pay the cost of a 36 foot street to standard. The remainder would be paid for out of state aid funds. He recommended this street be designated a municipal state aid street. Sanitary sewer would be provided by extension of a sewer line from east of Highway 101 along the north shore of Lake Susan following the creek up to Highway 5. Trunk water would be provided by construction of a well, pump house. The total cost for sewer; water, ~ storm sewer, street to serve this property is $2,600,000. That cost ,., would be distributed in accordance to benefit to the properties that receive benefit from the improvements. The hearing was opened for comments from the floor. Don Slathar - Anything in the planning on Highway 5 traffic in terms of language I can understand. How much longer do I have to wait at Highway 5 and 4 to get to work? Roman Roos - I think Highway 212 will alleviate part of the problem. Bruce pankonin - Right now Highway 5 carries a lot of inter-regional traffic. H0peful1y the through traffic will be on Highway 212 located south of Lake Riley. That is a top priority road in the State of Minnesota. Highway 5 is proposed asa minor arterial to handle subregional trips. Rod Hardy gave a presentation of Chanhassen Lakes Business Park. The industrial area has been divided into three phases covering a period of between ten and twelve years. In the first phase there would be a road to be connected from new County Road 17 east to Highway 101. County'Road 17 is presently projected for construction commencing next April, for completion in the third quarter of 1980. The industrial sites will be no smaller than an acre and a half and no larger than five acres. The closest point of approach between the shoreline of Lake'Susanand the southern property lines' is 100 _ feet. All of that shoreline will be retained ,by the partnership ,., to be contributed,at some point in,the future, for park purposes to the city. Dunn and Curry has an agreement with the Lutheran Church of the Living Christ to provide access through the proposed industrial development. Planning Commission Meeting ~arch 8, 1978 -7- - In the proposed covenants, Dunn and Curry will provide for substantial setbacks along-the steep slope overlooking the lake and maximize the existing ground'cover. Railroad access will not be provided in the first phase. Rod Hardy - The county has proposed that the intersection on Highway 212 that serves Chanhassen will be the new County Road 17. That being the case, the major access for all industry will be up County Road 17 or down County Road 17 to Highway 212. That was very key in our planning because we felt it'was imperative to move traffic away from the center and out to the regional highways as quickly as possible. Harley Robinson - I am an elder at the church and also a property owner on Lake Susan. As far as your easement for the road going into the church, who would be paying for that? Rod Hardy - I don't know what the terms under,; the agreement are. I think it's provided for in our agreement with the church. - Ed Dunn - The easement is provided to the church at no charge. Road construction of whatever nature is left to the church. Harley Robinson - That is my only concern as far as the church is concerned. - As'far-as the property owners on: the south side of the lake, I think most of them are here'this evening, their biggest concern is they are going to be looking north and looking at these high banks over there and you say you have allotted 100 feet and the trees-go back as far as 200 feet. Rod Hardy - 100 feet between the edge of the lake and the edge of the property. We have not designated the setback requirement~ from the edge of the property for any construction at this time. ' Harley Robinson - Is there going'to be any grading of that area? Rod Hardy - Any grading would probably be done would be on the level. We have notmade'any final definitive commitments in terms of the setback' from the property line, where they can build, but it would be unlikely, at this point, that there would be any construction once the grade starts to change percipitous1y. "There would be no reason for an industry to build on: the side of a hill. Harley Robinson - Are there any regulations that the city has as far as how far they build back from a lake or can they build-right up to the lake? Bruce Pankonin - The minimum setbacK! according to shore1and' standards for Lake Susan is 75 feet from the high water mark. These people are' proposinsr a ].OOfe$t, a public area, rear lot line, and then the'rear setback. Harley Robinson - ~~at about regulations as far as parking lots? Is there anything in that as far as your sites or can you build 100% on the'site? Bruce rankonin - At the present time we are considering whether the property should be industrial or not. That's a zoning issue and weare also: deciding what should the lot and streetpconfiguration be. Site plans for buildings on a particu1q.r site is handled at the time of building permit application. All e Planning Commission Meeting March '8', 1978 -8- o~ the setbacks, parking ratios and lot area coverages are regulated" by the Chanhassen Zoning Ordinance. We are not at that ,stage at this time. Harley Robinson - I feel that, as far as industrial, if it's protected e from our view as far as lighting and environmental I believe that as far as providing sufficient setbacks I wbu1d like to know, what are they and if it is approved industrial. As far as screening, is there any regulations? 'Isthere going to be any limiting of height of elevations of buildings? Is there going to be a limit to light pollution? Are we going to see the lights of an industrial park or are we going to see ,the moon? As far as restricting light heights, is this in any planning? Bruce Pankonin - All the questions you are raising are covered by'the performance: s.tandards, of the Chanhassen ' Zoning Ordinance. Harley Robinson - Are they allowable for industrial area? Bruce Pankonin - Yes. Harley Robinson - What are your heights? Bruce Pankonin - 45 feet. Harley Robinson -What about lighting? Bruce Pankonin - It can't penetra.te'over the property lines, and light sources can't be visible, they have to be sG:I:eened. Harley Robinson - Wnat about the grading along the edge of the lake? ~ Rod Hardy - We are not proposing to do anything within at least 100 - feet of the" lake. There will be' a sewer line which is going to be put in which is going to be a public hearing next week. The final alignment of that sewer,I don't know where the centerline of the sewer will go, but from our point of view in terms of development, we would not come within 100 feet of that property. Harley Robinson - Wha.tabout storm drainage in that area? Is there any provisions for this? Bill Brezinsky - There wil1'be two ponds.: The storm drainage requirements will be in accordanae,withthe.Ri1ey Purgatory Creek Watershed District rules and regulations. Basically, there will be in the first phase two ponds. The existing pond will be used as a settling area. The runoff from approximately 30 acres in the industrial park'and from the property to the east will be directed to this pond and th.en there'wi1l be a, smaller' outlet pipe ,which will restrict the flow from this pond into a storm sewer system that will outlet into a second pond. It will eventually outlet into the creek. The maximum flow will be restricted to no more than what it is now from the raw land. There will have to be provisions for cleaning the 'water as it goes through the pond. It will probably be necessary to have skimming devices, etc. The ~ quality of the water entering the lake will be ~ different than it is right now. The plan was submitted to the watershed district the first part of this month. They have reviewed it and are going to discuss it at their meeting on the 5th of April. Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -9- e At'that'time they will give the developers their speci:eI.crequirements. Harley Robinson -'What can go in there?' Bruce Pankonin - Primarily anything that doesn't have any outside storage and develop toxic waste that go in the sewer system and are low water users. Harley Robinson - Is there any provisions as far as the city about keeping a green area or grass or shrubs or trees? Bruce Pankonin - In the industrial areas there is a 30 foot front yard setback where nothing can happen except for access drives. There i~"arearyard. There are side yards. , 'No more than 30% of the site can be covered with buildings. Harley Robinson - What'about blacJ<:topfor parking? Bruce Pankonin'- There is a parking ratio depending upon the use. Roman RooS - Martin Ward could not be here this evening. He would like to hold the record open. We will hold this record open for one week so that ietters could be entered into the record. e Jim Murphy - You are asking us to accept something which we know very little about. We would like to see those land uses listed. Regarding setback, we would certainly like to see that defined prior to you approving the zoning. Roman Roos -'The setback" is defined. ' Jim Murphy - Why can't it be more restrictive for this particular case? Bruce Pankonin .:.. We have asked the developer to define the no build lines. This has not been done. What we are leaning towards is when you start going down the slope 'would "be the no build line., Jim Murphy- No build and no grading. That's what we are really looking for. Another thing'that'svery important to us is elevation, not only:the slab elevation but the top of the buildings. . Light'po1lution, we are interested in defiriitecutoffs. What are you going to do with lighting at night? Can it be'reduced to a minimum? When I look out my bedroom window I like to see the moon. Regarding the storm sewer, is it true that there would be no culverts that outlet into Lake Susan? Bill Brezinsky - There willbe'none that out1et'directly into Lake Susan. Jim Murphy - Has anybody done a study on what is the ratio in Jonathan? I think most of us'like it. Rod Hardy - This is more in keeping with the Jonathan plan. Jim Murphy -'You are talking about awfully little establishments, a lot of roads. Is itreai1y necessary? Soon you are going to be talking about water and sewer and then streets that are put in, then you are committed. Do we have to be quite as hard and fast with this ,lot size? Can it be something more flexible? I think the neighborhood is very concerned that all these conditions be laid out prior'to, your approval. I aIil concerned about some vague ordinance.' Bruce Pankonin - The city, in agreeing with Ounn and Curry, at some point in'time, will enter in to a very specific development contract whe:l:e:every one of these issues will be articulated. Right now we are at the fact gathering stage. e Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 ~10.... Keith Bartz .... When do we' have an0tl1l,eroppor:t~:ni.ty to review further? That' s importan1:~ to.' Qurfee1ings here. We all have concerns about the'natural state of the north boundary ~ of Lake ,,susan- staying as it, is. We all' have concerns _ about'the ,height of the buildings~ I think everybody in this,roornwoula b~ a~reeable if you have a lot down ',setback where any building would begin and if you have 'height limitations and answers to' our light questions and-we have aI1Qther chance to ta1lcto you once you -havethose,propE>sal~ before any contracts are signed. ,'" I'f we don't: have- thatagreem~nt ,that we get another chance at-it when these specific issues are proposed, not signed, then I think we are not through tonight. Roman Roos - What we'are .trying to do tonight is gather the general, sentiment of the community in respect to that property in terms 'of. rezoning that property. The issues raised by Mr. Robinson are very relevant issues and will definitely be considered., Al Klingelhutz - In listening to the neighborhood in the past week or so,'1;.here'concern is mostly on the south slope on the north side of Lake Susan~ _I am wondering if the Planning Commission and the Lake Susan Hills Partnership wouldn't consider having a deeper setback on their rear setback line than the present ard-inanoe.' If the people down ,there could be given some such statement that that would be considered, I think a lot of their concerns would be answered. Harley: Robinson,'" I:think,that's right, Al. I feel that certainly Dunn and Curry'have'a lot,invested in the land and r think .itsbould be zoned industrial but the thing that we are trying to do is-protect it so that it doesn't look like this from where we sit in ,our living rooms. Roman -R,oos,.... We know what you are "looking for. You' would like to keep'that back slope isolated. That's really the overall 'concensusandI'am sure the Planning Commission is well ,aware of _ - That issue- will come up but not at this point in time. Harley Robinson~~- Is there a,wayall of the landowners on the south side of Lake Susan can be notified of other meetings? Bruce pankonin --We made a concerted effort to notify people within 350 feet of the property_ ,If we missed someone, we apologize. There ,is only one official public hearing that has' to be ,held. More could be held. I can make an attempt ',to write a ,letter to the spokesman for your group every time this issue is to be considered by the city. Rod Hardy - May I make a suggestion? During this process we would be more than happy to meet with those residents and discuss these issues in particular. It is a forum for them to expr,ess their concerns and to'get down and really get at some of the other questions. Roman Roos - Excellent suggestion. Rod Hardy - I think they have to;'understandas' we do that there are a lot of decis!<;>ns such as, location of street lights or lights on buildings ~anckparking lots, that we don't know the answer to and we won't know them',until that time two or three years from now when a persons comes and buys e e Planning Commission Meeting ~arch 8, 1978 -ll- e that particu1arproperty~ However, I think the covenants, the zoning ordinances' that are "in affect for the city and other covenants which we feel would be beneficial to ourselves and not to deter any capacity to sell the land I think would be important to us. I would say again, we have as much long term interest in the success of that particular project,I think,as a lot of the present residents do. We sympathize with you because we see that there is a good deal of land which we will also be turning into residential, many of whom will have the same concerns. I would offer our company',s assistance and whoever the spokesman might want to be, we would be happy to meet at your convenience. we will bring these maps and a lot of the other working maps. We are about to complete a water quality study of Lake Susan which is being undertaken by Hickok and Associates. That study will be complete by the end of this week. The findings of that we would be glad to make available. e Oon Slathar - Has the Park and Recreation Commission submitted a study on this project? I am wondering-if this is infringing on the previous plan. Roman Roos - The Park and Recreation Commission is quite aware of this project. As far as their recommendation at this point in time, no. Don Slathar - Could that bedone'prior to, so we could get a look at that? Roman Roos - It is one of the things we would need also. Bruce Pankonin- The city's plan shows a corridor along the,north shore of Lake Susan. That concept"is,- not being aborted by this development. Rod Volk - I am from the church also.' It am Chairman of the Trustees. I wbu1d be interested to know how firin your boundary lines are as ,far as the church is concerned as to where the road would be. ,: Rod Hardy - I think, having been,over the,propertYi'I can define about where'the best,access point is, but we wouldn't commit that until it was with the churchs approval. Rod Volk - I think we would like the opportunity to meet with you people. Rod Hardy - We have the obligation to', provide you the adequate easement . . Ed Dunn - The question has come up about Mr. Ward. He is aware of our plans and our activities. I have taken probably not less than a dozen'times that I have visited with him. I have kept him advised every time we had another specific that we- could discuss such as the feasibility study, etc. He is aware. He has these materials. We are trying to stay in touch and are very willing to meet' again with, the church'peop1e. The easement was a two year negotiation. We think we have very precise mutual rights there which we intend to respect. We wil-l'meet with anybody who wants to talk about this, preferably in groups. We would be gladto,come'and"te1:L'you everythtngwe know as of that date~ Hud Hollenback moved to c10se'the public hearing with the provision the public record,remain open fOr one week. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unan1ffious1y approved. Hearing closed at 10:15 p.m. Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -12- CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK: Dick Matthews moved to table action until later this evening.. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved. e PUBLIC HEARING AMEND DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT MTS SYSTEMS CORPORATION Roman Roos called the hearing to 'order at 10:15 p.m. with the following interested persons present: Alex Krengel, 8009 Cheyenne Jim Margerum, 8005 Cheyenne George Schroers, 8080 184th Ave., Eden prairie Jim Benshoof, BRW Robert MacOonald, Animal Fair,Inc. Don Schmieg, 7703 'Erie Al K1ingelhutz, 8601 Great Plains Blvd. Paul Strand, MTS Fred Richter, Ellerbe and Associates Bob Dill, Ellerbe and Associates This public hearing is to consider amending a previously approved industrial development contract for Ken Beiersdorf changing its context for the consideration of the MTS development. Notice of the public hearing was published in the Carver County Herald and notices were mailed to property owners within 350 feet of the subject property. Paul Strand gave a brief presentation. MTS has outgrown the present site in Eden Prairie. They are in the final stages of an addition to the present building and have room for one more limited addition because of the Highway 212 corridor. They intend to initially construct a 160,000 square foot facility that would be an energy efficient building in that it would be earth sheltered. The initial building would employ a maximum of 480 people. Half of the,proposed building would be office space and half electronic assembly and warehouse. e Fred Richter - This site encompasses approximately 70 acres on the south side of Highway 5. The land is presently cultivated. George Schroers - Several years ago we had a meeting here to get multiple dwelling on it. Bruce Pankonin - The city has an agreement with Ken Beiersdorf where he has rights to build a number of apartment units. The proposal at this time is to consider amending that agreement with the city. George Schroers - If we change the zoning to industrial, then anything can go on there. Bruce Pankonin - In the P-3 these uses are permitted that MTS is proposing. If.the city agrees that MTS's site plan and uses are in the best interests of the city they would not have rights to go out and build any other. uses other than those approved by the city. . George Schroers -'I own the property just south of it and I am awful interested in what's going in there. I 'Would like to be shown where the water is going. They put in buildings, they put in blacktop, storm sewers, where is that water going? t'" r ' Planning Commission Meeting ~arch'8, 1978 -13- e Fred Richter - The site plan we are propos.ing is a building of approximately 160,000 square feet with parking initially for 385 cars. Half of the building roof area will be grass. Runoff will be minimum in that ,area. The other half of the roof area will be parking. The parking lot and road runoff will go into a holding pond which will be baffled 'and have anoll skimmer and this water will go into the creek and down to the lake. The runoff will not exceed what is presently going into the creek. The Riley Purgatory Creek agency controls this and must issue permits. George Schroers - I am awful concerned because you knbwChanhassen when they put in their storm sewer system that all comes down there and that comes right now. That all comes on my property and everything and anything comes with it. It used to come and run right straight into the lake but now it comes with such a force that it spreads out over five, six acres down there. I don't want to be a. dumping ground for everypody. Fred Richter - The only increased water we will be putting in would be the water from the runoff of the parking lot and from the road. The rest of the building will be grass. That will go into ,the pond and it will be released -a.t a, ra.te not exceeding the present runoff into the creek. The rest of the site will be grass or it may be agricultural. Paul Strand - We have an obligation not to dump water on your land. George Schi:'oers ... What goes on, that' land" is going to- affect the value of my land. Iam very interested in which way that's go ing in' there' and how it" s go ing in' there. - Jim .Margerum -I think in-the presentatioh you'referenced something a,bout the frQntage'rbad. IS that right behind the property line? Fred Richter - The frontage road has-been revised'perear1ier presentation tonight. Paul Strand - That particular diagram was We have a number of changes concept is dependent upon a the traffic problem-. Bruce Pankonin - Bob Mason, who owns Outlot stopped'and saw me today. his concerns regarding the have any problem with it. . , drawn early in our' discussion. in that road. The whole satisfactory solution to 1,' 2 Chanhassen Estates, He asked that I relay traffic study. He doesn't Oick .Matthews moved to close the'public hearing. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 10:40 p.m. e MTS SYSTEMS CORPORATION: . Hud Hollenback moved that provided adequate access i'n a.c,cord'ahce' wtrththe. standards, ;of- the'<BRWstudy, are provided to theMTS property ,the P1a:nning 'Commi=ssion:recommends approval of the'MTS' preliminarY'deveLopment. 'plans: as' pre,s'ented. Motion seconded by Les' Bridger and urianimously'approved. Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 , -14-~, MC CLEARY PRELIMINARY PLAT: Mr. ~cCleary is ,proposing to subdivide 4.7 acres into; seven residential building sites and one outlot. The property is located approximately 500 feet north of Highway 5 ~ on County Road 15 and abuts Lake Minnewashta. The property is _ currently zoned R-1~ Sanitary 'sewer and water are available to the property. The petitioner isproposimg a 20 foot wide combination walkway and private beach lot for the residents of the subdivision. This type of land use in an R-I use district; is a conditional use. Mr~ McCleary plans 'to retain and remodel tne existing house on Lot 3, Block 1. ' The City Engineer stated that the street right-of-way and cul-de-sac radius shown are in accordance with'ordinancestandards. The street should be constructed to city standards (7 ton capacity, concrete curb and 28 foot street width)~ The cul-de-sac radius should be 40 feet. Water runofffrom;the street should be directed to the southwest of the property into a '. natural sump. area. The developer was instructed to proceed to preliminary plat and make application for a conditional use permit., ANIMAL FAIR SITE PLAN: This property is.10cated at the southeast corner of Highway 5 and County Road 17" in proposed Chanhassen Lakes Business Park. Pat Murphy, Carver County Director of Public Works, has reviewed'the proposal and'commented that additional right-of-way will be needed for County' Road, 17 and the northerly access to the property will have to be eliminated. Bob Pier~e, Architect, Dave~ppelhof and.Rob~rt MacDonal~,~nim~l Fair,~ were present. The property~s 9~ 'acres 1n S1ze. The bU1ld1ng 1S proposed at 45,000 square feet with parking for 117 cars. A combined access with one curb cut for cars and trucks will be designed. A herm is proposed along Highway 5 and County Road 17 so that only eight or nine feet of the building will be exposed. Members cautioned that high berms are not recommended in order for police officers to have visual survei11ance.ofparking lots and building entrances. A1 Klinge1hutz - As President of the Chanhassen Chamber ,of Commerce I would like to say a few words on Animal Fair. You " know they have been a long time resident of Chanhassen creating much employment for our own people here. They are going to have to make a move and I feel we should try and accommodate them as much as possible. Oave Appelhof - I would like to give you a brief run down on our timing. Our lease is up in the present building 'that. we are':in, the first of June and we have extended a ,lease for another three months; Which means we will be out in the street basically by the first of September. We are anticipating right now with timing gbingon a very tight schedule-,-' this was ' ,assuming that'the zoning would'; have" taken ,place tonight, subdivision taking place next week, public improvements next week, getting a variance to ... Ordinance 45 so that we can put in a holding tank ~ sewer until the sewer is in to the location and then obtaining a building permit once all of this took place, that would be in a position to let out to bid on April 7 which to receive bids the first of Planning commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -15- It May a.nd start building immedia.telX. Th;ls would 9;i.ve a four month lead time to get into ourinanufacturing, witli'another'month1ead time to get into our 'office facility. We would appreciate anything you cart do to'enhance that time. It is my understanding that water could 'come into the property by the time we will need the water. 'Sewer would' not be present or available for our site until the summer of 1979 which would then cause us to have" to go for a variance -to Ordinance 45. A11'that having to take place prior to our build~ng permi~. Les Bridger moved that we, HaS a Planning Commission, encourage Animal Fair to continue with the necessary processesth:tough the city to continue this development arid we look favorably as a commission on the design and land use. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher. The following voted in fa.vor: Les Bridger, Roman Roos; Dick Matthews, and Jerry Neher. Hud Hollenback voted no. Motion carried. Hud Hollenback - I think the P1annerts comments would be apropos in the motion~ ! think it would hinge on the cityts cooperation on the intra-face on the sewer etc. "i ROY TEICH, PROPERTY SPLIT: Mr. Teich wants to sell off five acres by metes and bounds-description to a'neighbor-. The property abuts Lakota Lane and Highway 101. The Planner recommended approval conditioned upon no building permits be issued for residential purposes until sewer is available. e Hud Hollenback moved provided no building sewer is available. approved~ to recommend approval of the land transfer permits-be issued for residential purposes until Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously MINNEWASHTA CREEK FIRST ADDITION: 'Bob Ritter was present requesting approval to divide'property'into'36 residential lots and twoout10ts. The property is located on Minnewashta Parkway and Highway 7. Sanitary sewer and water are available to the property. The plan indicates 50 feet of right-of-way for the cul-de-sacs. City standards call for 60 feet of right-of-way. The petitioner intends to use Outlot B for the purpose of a beach lot for the residents of the development. Plans for the beach lot have not be'en submitted. e Bill Brezinskygave his report. This plan eliminates the curb cut onto Highway 7. The cul-de-sac lengths are within ordinance standards. The drainage for the entire area will go to the creek on the north part of 'the property. Bob Ritter - We would like approximately 8 lots with double units. 'These are the lot numbers that I would like to have- zoned as doubles: 27, 30, 31, 32, 34, 36, 14# and 15. We are flexible on that. Those lots along the marsh could be extended into the marsh. If the city wants to keep the marsh'ars'large as possible, fine, if you want us to run ..the' lot lines all the way to the back, we can do that too. It would never be built on and that would be in some type of a covenant the~act that that part of \ the land would never be disturbed. Planning Commission Meeting March 8, 1978 -16- The City Planner felt the lot lines could be extended to the rear property line as there are no plans for a public park in this area. The Park and Recreation Commission will look at the plan and make commen.. Members commented on the placement of the duplexes. Roman Roos - I have no real problems where you place the doubles other than along Highway 7. I think doubles are the coming ,thing. As far as the placement along the amenity area or interspersed, I like the idea of interspersing them myself. Jerry Neher - I think the plan is a vast improvement over what we first looked at~ As far as doubles are concerned I have no problem with them or where he puts them. Hud Hollenback - I think we ought to give some consideration to the beach access and hopefully have those part of the covenants. I would like to see a little better mixture of the duplexes than having them all on one' street or the maj ori ty of them on one' street. ' Les Bridger - I would like to see the doubles a little more scattered about the plan. ' Conceptually I like the idea of them having the availability of more of the amenities in the area. I would really like to see them scattered about more than having a row of duplexes. Oick Matthews - I would like to see them on the largest lots. I wouldn't particularly care where they are located just so that they were placed because a double is going to be at least half again as big as a single family dwelling, Irwou1d guess.- The developer was instructed to proceed to preliminary plat and make application for a conditional use permit for the beach lot. e ALLEN GRAY BEACH LOT: John Kosmas and Allen Gray were present to discuss a proposed private beach lot to be used by residents of Sunny Slope Addition on Riley Lake. The lot is 50 feet wide and will have a parking area and a structure which would include a wet bar, changing area and view of the lake. It was agreed to eliminate the parking area and move the building closer to the road. Oick Matthews moved to hold a public hearing on April 12, 1978, at 7:45 p.m. to consider the issuance of a conditional use permit for a beach lot. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. VALHALLA STREET VACATION: The city has received .a petition to vacate Valhalla in the Pleasant View/Horseshoe Curve area. This short street ends at Lotus Lake. The City Planner cautioned that the city should protect its drainage and ?ewer:nights in the area. Wilfred Goran and Jim O'Brien were present. Members commented on the proposed street vacation. Les Bridger - I see no problems with it as long as we abide by the Planner's recommendations that the city's easements ... be taken into consideration. _ Jerry Neher - I have no problem. Hud Hollenback - It's not being used by anybody for launching boats? Is it a public access? . e e Planning Commission Meeting ~arch 8, 1978 -17- Bruce Pankonin - It is a road that ends at the lake. Wilfred Goran - Since you guys made such a beautiful landscape down there we have been having a lot of problems down there. In fact before when it was all grown up with brush people would try to get down there and park their cars on the curve but now it's beautiful. You can drive down there with a four wheel drive which I don't think should be allowed. That originally was a fire lane. Hud Hollenback - If this is vacated at this time, the only access to Lotus Lake through Carver Beach. Bruce Pankonin - This was never used as a public access. Wilfred Goran - You get your nuisance traffic. Hill climbers. A couple tried to back" their boat trailers ,down there just after it was improved and of course they didn't make it. All they did was push the new sod allover the place. 'It is much to steep a grade for that kind of purpose. Hud Hollenback - I am not arguing against vacating it. I am saying, if it is vacated people do have access to the lake over that land. If it is vacated and the neighborhood takes it over the only thing left until this public park is built is the access in Carver Beach. Wilfred Goran - Is this what you are trying to encourage, the use 'of this for boat launching? Hud Hollenback - ~o, but I think every lake should have some sort of access. We are erasing them pretty rapidly on this lake. I think we should prepare' ourselves if we vacate this, which we should probably do, we are going to hear from Carver Beach and this other area '(Merry Place) this summer . Dick Matthews - On the other hand ,it wasn't set up for that and it's a public nuisance as far as he is concerned. Hud Hollenback - I have no prob1em~ Roman Roos - I am not too concerned,;about the impact on the other boat ramps on Lotus. I am concerned about the right of the public to use that area if it was designated that initially, howev.er:, being a fire rane I feel there is no problem. Dick Matthews - I don't have any problem with it as long as the owner would not put up fencing:,that would be objectionable or out of context with the area. A split rail fence or shrubbery or something like that I don't have a problem with,but a six foot high chain link fence or something in that category doesn't fit. I don't have any problem with it as long as it's tastefully done. CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK: The Planning Commission has kept the record of the public hearing open one week for comments from the public. Ounn and Curry will meet with the residents around Lake Susan and representatives of the Lutheran Church next Wednesday evening to answers concerns that were expressed at the public hearing held earlier this evening. Planning Commission Meeting ~arch 8; 1978 -18- Members commented on the question; What do you think about an industrial area at that location? Jerry Neher - Definitely. Dick Matthews - I dontt have any problems with it. Les Bridger - I think it's needed. It's a ,good land use and I think it should be rezoned to' P-4 ~ " The questions brought up by these people tonight should be answered and will 'be answered as the process proceeds. Hud Hollenback - I agree. I think the city ought to get a handle on it and find out what this means in the ways of dollars and benefits besides money. There is quite an impact here and we really don't know what they 'are going to contribute. Jerry Neher ... If you are going to hide your head in the sand because of traffic, we realize traffic is a problem, you cannot pass up good tax base because of that. I still maintain industry is good tax base. We haven't begun to pay taxes out here. We haven't started building schools yet compared to what we are going to have to build. Les Bridger - There is no doubt in my mind that traffic is a problem but we are going 'to have to live with it and we are going to have to plan for it. Roman Roos - I don't think that problem is ours. I think we have to live with the existing system. We don't have any control'down the road in Eden Prairie. There is one access into Chanhassen, that's Highway 5 and new County Road l7 and that's what we have to live with. Jerry Neher moved that pursuant to Minnesota Statutes,Chapter 462 the Planning Commission duly reviewed the Feasibility Study for North Lake Susan Improvement Project 78-3 and finds this to be positively consistent with the spirit and intent of Chanhassen's plan for land use, transportation, and utilities. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. A1 Klinge1hutz, President of the Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce, requested a copy of Planning Commission Agendas and Minutes. Dick Matthews moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Les Bridger and unanimously approved.' Meeting adjourned at l:30 a.m. Don Ashworth City Manager e e e