Loading...
1978 08 09 REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AUGUST 9, 1978 e Roman Roos called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Walter Thompson, Mal MacAlpine, Hud Hollenback, and Jerry Neher. Dick Matthews was absent. MINUTES: Hud Hollenback moved to note the July 17, 1978, Council minutes. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Walter Thompson moved to note the July 24, 1978, Council minutes. Motion seconded by Mal MacAlpine and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING DISEASED TREE BURNING SITE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT The Chairman called the public hearing to order at 7:45 p.m. with the following interested persons present: Frank Fox, 27990 Smithtown Road, Excelsior Lawrence Klein, 9170 Great Plains Blvd. John Jeurissen, 205 Chan View Al Klingelhutz, 8601 Great Plains Blvd. Earl Holasek, 8610 Galpin Blvd. The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Heral d. - The purpose of this hearing is to consider amending Ordinance 47 and a conditional use permit for the establishment of a diseased tree disposal and burning site located approximately 1100 feet west of the intersection of Lyman Blvd. and Highway 101 and the actual burning site will be located approximately 1 ,000 feet south of this point. Bob Wai bel - On the attached burning site permit appl i cati on to the Minnesota Pollution Control agency are given the reasons for the establishment of a site within Chanhassen. Hennepin County provides no near by disposal site. Carver County provides no disposal site. Shorewood has refused to allow Chanhassen to use their site despite verbal commitments by their tree inspector last April. Both seasonal use and interim use (until our own site can be put into use) has been rejected by Shorewood. Both Chaska and Jonathan have been asked if Chanhassen could use their site both for the year and for interim use (with Chanhassen sharing the costs). Chaska told us that the site was set up for Chaska and Jonathan only. Jonathan doesn't respond to calls or messages on the matter and I assume is not interested in allowing Chanhassen to use the site. Chanhassen currently is paying between two to four times what it would cost at county sites or at a nearby municipal site to dispose of the diseased wood at Flying Cloud sanitary landfill. Paul Waldron, Carver County Tree Inspector states the county may have a chipping site for diseased trees next year but encouraged Chanhassen to set up their own burning site. If the county does provide a utilization site, the PCA would probably revoke the city's burning permits (assuming we get it approved) if the chipping site is in reasonable driving distance. Frank Fox - According to the maps it appears to be right on the border of my property. The burning time, if in the fall of the year and it's dry, it could be quite a hazard as far as crops are concerned. I have a e Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -2- lot of elm trees in that area and if they are not burned then there is going to be a problem as far as contaminating my trees. That's what my objections are right now. ~ Mal MacAlpine - Aren't these burning sites supervised? Bob Waibel - I am checking in the PCA regulations. I was hoping to have Doug Mitchell here to answer these questions. It says that qualified personnel for general direction and operation of the site shall be on duty at all times while the site is open for use and for the duration of any fire on the site. Burning shall be conducted only when weather conditions are such that a nuisance, health or safety hazard will not be created. Lawrence Klein - Is this going to be run by the city itself? Bob Waibel - The way I understand it is that Doug Mitchell will be responsible for the operation of that site. Lawrence Klein - Is it going to be for any resident of the city at a set time they can go down there and drop their trees off? Bob Waibel - That may be a possibility. There is going to be a gate at the front so maybe they won't allow anybody to come in. They will have certain hours of receiving. Lawrence Klein - This is what I am wondering. Not that you are going to have some guy coming in here at 10:00 p.m. and he gets to the gate and the gate is closed so he dumps his stuff along side of the road. Bob Waibel - These are questions I think since the Forester isn't here we should have these questions entered into the record. I can have him get an answer back to you. Roman Roos - What's the extent of the elm disease in Chanhassen? How much use out of this site will there b~? Bob Waibel - I talked to Doug about that and he said Chanhassen's elm population ~ will actually go extinct much quicker than other areas. Minneapolis ~ and certain outs tate communities have very aggressive programs. Chanhassen does not have an aggressive program thus the trees will not linger on. They will probably be gone in ten years. Minneapolis may have theirs for forty years yet. Mal MacAlpine - I have property with probably 100 elms on. I have taken down 40 in the past two years. I have just had 23 marked. The city previously had a policy where if you could take them down yourself and get them to the road they would haul them. I recently had 23 trees marked. I became quite concerned because I would out the city did not have a policy of even picking these trees up. The city has come up with a program whereby they have put bids out to three contractors and in our particular area it's Lutz. The resident pays approximately 60% of the cost of removing the tree and the city pays the other 40%. It could be interpreted as a 50-50 proposition because the city,I believe, tacks on a 20% administrative cost or whatever. The key thing here is,Chanhassen with all the elms that it has we do not have a dumping site, we do not have a burning site. Eden Prairie charges us something like $10.00 a ton which can really add up because elm trees of any size it doesn't take much. My point is this. I ask what would happen if we did get a burning site? I asked how it would be handled? They said there would be a gate. There would be someone there supervising the burning. They would not necessarily burn every day. They would not burn when the weather would not permit from the standpoint of the safety factor. The possibility tit does exist that someone would come out and dump those elms after hours but if they did that it they are marked elms you could Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -3- e easily determine who. did that by merely looking at the number. As I understand it this would be published so you would know when the burning site would be open. I think most people would abide by that. There is no guarantee of that. Frank Fox - Shorewood is supposed to be limiting theirs to contractors. They are the only ones that can come in to the burning site. Mal MacAlpine.. Again to fill you in on the seriousness, I called up Northern States Power, there is an easement through my property, I have approximately eight trees that are near a high voltage line. If I were to take those trees down all they will do is drop the line for me. They won't have anything to do with removing the trees. I called up the telephone company, I have another six to eight trees near their line. When I asked them to drop the line to permit me to take these trees down they wouldn't even do that. They said if I hit that line and knocked it down it would be at my expense. I am saying with people that have a lot of elm trees and I just happen to be one of those individuals, it represents a hardship. The city has a good deal for the resident if you only have one or two trees but if you get 30 to 40 trees marked it represents a tremendous hardship plus the fact we don't have an arrangement where a resident can take the tree down, cut it up in reasonable sections, take it to the road and get it hauled away at city expense like we had the past three years. Minnetonka has an arrangement where they will take elm trees down, marK, them and haul them away at no expense. I think there is a $20.00 assessment per home in Minnetonka. I believe Eden Prairie has an arrangement where you can take your tree down and get it to the road and get it hauled away and get it burned at their site. We are the only community that I have checked with that does not have a burning site, does not have arrangements whereby you can take the tree down yourself and take it to the road. That's a side issue ;of this public hearing but there is a lot of facets to consider. Al Klingelhutz .. Chanhassen does need a burning site but I do think Chanhassen would be fool hardy not to let individuals haul their own elm trees over to that site because an individual with 23 trees, I probably got 500 trees, am I going to be able to get a burning permit to burn these trees on my own farm or am I going to have to hire somebody to take them down and haul them over to this site? I am 1/4 mile away from this site. Can I haul them myself and take them over there when it's open? This is the thing that concerns me. Another thing, this is under a conditional use permit I thi nk thi s coul d be suffi ci ently contr-oll ed if it does become bothersome or if a development comes in the area it should be shut off. Roman Roos .. You are not objecting to the site but you are also concerned about burning them on your own property? Al Klingelhutz - I would like to burn them on my own property because I think I have got probably a better site as to haul them someplace else to burn them. Mal MacAlpine.. It is my understanding that the resident would be permitted to haul the elm trees to the burning site in Chanhassen at least during the hours that it is open. I think that is necessary. Lawrence Klein.. I think so too. Al Klingelhutz .. I wish if you approve of this that you would put it in your recommendati on to the council.' e e Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -4- Roman Roos - When an elm is marked how much time have you got to take it down and how much time once itls down do you have to get rid of it? Mal MacAlpine - You have ten days to get it down and get it off your property. If~ you have a lot of elm trees marked and you are making a reasonable~ attempt to get rid of those elm trees, the city has been very fair in giving you a time extension. If you have the contractor take your trees down it normally takes 30 to 45 days for that contractor to get out to your home so therefore they should give the resident who wants to take them down at least a little bit more time than the ten days. Lawrence Klein.. Are they going to grade a road in there of some kind? Bob Waibel - There has to be a road put in so that two vehicles can pass. Al Klingelhutz - That road would be put in at city expense then. Bob Waibel - Right. - Al Klingelhutz .. What type of fee schedule do they plan on setting up or is it going to be free access? Bob Waibel - I should have the City Forester here to answer those questions. He wasn't able to attend tonight. I will address all these questions to him and deliver answers to you. Al Klingelhutz - I understand that now if you get someone to contract your trees the city pays 40%. If you take them down yourself the cost is all yours. I think if you took your trees down and hauled them over there being the city pays 40% of a contractor, it would be reasonable to say that the individual that takes his own tree down should have free dumping and the city take care of that expense. Mal MacAlpine - If you live in Eden Prairie you can dump there at no cost. I would think that if we had a burning site in Chanhassen there shou~ be no cost, in my judgment, to the residents. The problem is ther4l' is a lot of trees in Chanhassen and the point is if we don't do something that could encourage people to take the trees down at a reasonable expense you are going to be faced with a lot of trees left up that are going to possibly ruin that 10 or 15% of the trees that might live. Roman Roos .. We talk about the elms that are at the site and the periods of burning, are they controlled by state as how long those elms can be there before they are burned? Bob Waibel.. There is nothing in here that states how long they should be there. Roman Roos - I am concerned about the disease spreading. It is ~ question I would like answered. Al Klingelhutz .. I think there should probably be a stipulation put in the conditional use that they all be burned within ten days after they are dumped. Lawrence Klein.. I was wondering if Carver County goes ahead on this thing, this thing here closes up, what is it going to cost us to turn around and wherever Carver County designates their site. Is that going to be clear up in the western end of the county? We are going to be paying the trucking to haul it up there, dollars and cents wise. Mal MacAlpine.. It may be completely ~mpractical. We may have to have a burning site in Chanhassen no matter what. That could be 30 miles. Frank Fox ~ Say the site is closed,then the site is returned to its former state? Bob Waibel... Right. It says here in the regulations, an materials extraneous to the site shall be removed and disposed of in an appropriate manner~ The site shall be returned to a state equal to its surroundings. ~ Hud Hollenback moved to close the public. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:15 p.m. Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -5- PUBLI C HEARING DEGLER SUBDIVISION AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT e Roman Roos called the hearing to order at 8:15 p.m. with the following interested persons present: Al Klingelhutz, 8601 Great Plains Blvd. Earl Holasek, 8610 Galpin Blvd. Mr. and Mrs. Gayle Degler, Route #5, Box 187 Mrs. Dean Degler, Route #5, Box 187 The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. e Mr. Dean Degler is requesting approval to convey a parcel of land for the purposes of constructing a single family home in the unsewered area of the City. They want to negotiate the purchase of city property as recorded in Book Q, page 222 located at the intersection of County Roads 17 and 117. This would create a parcel big enough to adequately handle a home and septic system. Roman Roos - What was the intent of the parcel that the city owns? Bob Waibel.. That was the old town hall. Al Klingelhutz ... The building burned down about 20 years ago. It is virtually a useless piece for Chanhassen. It's not big enough to sell for a building site without buying from Deglers or Deglers buying from Chanhassen. It looks to me like a good use for that property. It is virtually all wooded and a ravine. There isn't all that much we can do with it at this time unless sewer and water went'in there which might be the year 2040. Roman Roos .. If they acquire this parcel from the city that really puts a much broader prospective as to where they can set that house on that 2~ acres. Bob Waibel - That's what I was hoping we would do. I a,ssume youwat'lt to purchase that to find other building sites within that parcel to meet the setbacks. Mrs. Dean Degler - Then we can. Al Klingelhutz .. I guess when we passed that ordinance it was passed that if a son or someone to help on the farm could get a building permit. I know young Mr. Degler and his wife and I know that they spend most of their time working on their Dadls farm. Jerry Neher moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Mal MacAlpine and unanimously approved. Hearing closed at 8:30 p.m. e DEGLER SUBDIVISION: Members commented on the proposal. Jerry Neher.. As far as I am concerned thatls a worthless piece of city property. I am not opposed in any way I can see no harm coming from it. I do know the boy is helping the folks on the farm. Mal MacAlpine.. I am in favor of the Planner's recommendation for the reasons stated and would vote for the proposal. Hud Hollenback - I would also. This would be the way to do it rather than a conditional use. Walter Thompson.. I have no problems with the recommendation of the five acre conveyance. Roman Roos .. I, in like manner, have no problem. The only thing I would be concerned about is the septic system and that falls under the bull ding code. Bob Waibel.. I would think the Deglers would be most interested in finding out Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -6- what the soi ls woul d support before they actually go ahead and enter into purchase for that property. Jerry Neher moved to recommend approval to convey the greater than five acre e parcel which will encompass the City of Chanhassen's small acreage subject to an agreement between the City of Chanhassen and the tentative owners for a single family home which will be bound by the planning process in regards to setbacks, percol ati on, etc. Moti on seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimous ly approved. DISEASED TREE BURNING SITE, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT: Members expressed disappointment that someone was not present from staff to answer questions raised at the hearing. Hud Hollenback moved to recommend approval of the burning site as recommended by the City Planner. The city start the engineering and construction portion of the project for the road and staff furnish Planning Commission members with copies of the regulations and procedures used in Eden Prairie and Shorewood. After the Planning Commission receives answers to the questions raised at the public hearing from the City Forester the Planning Commission will recommend conditional uses. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. Mal MacAlpine - I think the City of Chanhassen should look down the road to what our policy should be as a city on elm trees. Are we going to continue this policy of having the only way you can have a tree removed is to have an outside contractor come in or are we going to consider assessing every resident that has a home so much similar to Minnetonka? The possibility exists that people with a lot of elms are not going to be taking down diseased elms. We are not going to be in a position to mark them and all the elms that we have in the city wi 11 probably eventually be dead so you have got to say, is this a residential or private owners problem or is it a city problem or is it a state problem or what. I happen to think it is a bigger problem than the city or possibly the state. I would like to know how Minnetonka does it. I would like to know how some of these other communities do it that have a lot of elm trees in their communities. I don't know if our way of doing it is the best way. I think I am more sensitive to the situation because of my own situation. I can take down most of my elms. I have taken down over 50 elms but I know there is property behind me where they have never had an elm tree marked. There is approximately 12 acres and I know it would represent a tremendous hardship. My property abuts up against that property so what good did it do me to take down my trees when the other diseased trees right adjacent to my property were not marked. I am just citing it as it is. I think the Council should be looking at this more long term somewhere along the line. e CLEVELAND SUBDIVISION.. SKETCH PLAN: Mr. Walter Cleveland is requesting to subdivide Lot 24, Murray Hill Addition into two single family lots one of which would be the existing residence. Mal MacAlpine moved to hold a public hearing on September 13, 1978, at 7:45 p.m. to consider Mr. Cleveland's subdivision. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and ~ unanimously approved. ~ CITY SIGN: Members questioned the size of the lettering on the new city sign located at Highways 5 and 101. Planning Commission Meeting August 9, 1978 -7- CBD AREA: Members have been questioned about the clean up of weeds, litter, and broken glass in the downtown area. Also the status of the home next to Victoria IS Bar. e Al Klingelhutz - The public affairs committee of the Chamber met today and we had a lengthy discussion on this. It will be thrown to the business people at out next Chamber meeting and there will be a resolution from the Chamber to the Council asking that something be done. Mal MacAlpine - I had a person call me three times concerned about the broken bottles every week end in Kenny's parking lot. They feel they have ruined their tires. Al Klingelhutz - If you are concerned about those in Kenny's parking lot, go behind the bars. They are in there like gravel. Mal MacAlpine.. They are concerned about the fact that Kenny's really looks like a garbage dump. We donlt have a burning site but we seem to have a garbage dump with all the pop cans, beer cans and glasses that are left outside. Paulyls donlt want their glasses taken out but if you go by there in the morning you will see beer glasses. Jerry Neher.. There is an ordinance against that but it seens like that time of the night the police aren't very much around. Mal MacAlpine.. You would think that the people that run the shopping center, Pauly's and so on would have to have some parttime person to clean that up either three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning or very early. It's really a mess. Roman Roos ... I am very glad to see that some action is being taken on it. e HANUS BUILDING: Members discussed the landscaping at the Hanus Building. Mr. Hanus has expressed a desire to meet with the Planning Commission on the site. NATURAL GREEN: Hud Hollenback moved to hold a public hearing on September 13, 1978, at 8:15 p.m. to consider a conditional use permit for Natural Green under Section 23.01 of Ordinance 47. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. HUD FLOOD INSURANCE STUDY: Members discussed the HUD Flood Insurance Study. Representatives of HUD will conduct a meeting in Chanhassen on August 21, 1978, for public imput. Mal MacAlpine moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 10:15 p.m. Don Ashworth Ci ty Manager e ,j