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1978 09 27 - - - REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 27, 1978 Prior to the meeting members met at the Hanus Auto and Truck Facility. Roman Roos called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Hud Hollenback, -Dick Matthews, Jerry Neher, Tim Stone, and Walter Thompson. Mal MacAlpine was absent. BLOOMBERG/DAVIS PROPOSAL: Members discussed their action taken on this proposal at the last Planning Commission meeting. The Assistant City Planner was instructed to inform Mr. Bloomberg that the Planning Commission wants to consider the whole piece of property in total. MINUTES: The Ecological Committee will be invited to attend the next Planning Commission meeting. Hud Hollenback moved to approve the August 23, 1978, Planning Commission minutes. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews. The following voted in favor: Roman Roos, Hud Hollenback, Dick Matthews, Jerry Neher, and Tim Stone. Walter Thompson abstained. Motion carried. Jerry Neher moved to note the September 5, 1978, Council minutes. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING NATURAL GREEN, INC. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT Roman Roos called the public hearing to order. The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. The Assistant City Planner gave his report of September 25, 1978, and feels he cannot recommend the granting of a conditional use permit without first amending the ordinance. Roman Roos - That motion to amend the ordinance, we voted against. Remember we asked staff and also Council to see if there was some other approach we could come up with. We were all in favor of him working-and running a temporary business there for an interurn period of time but we didn't know how to approach it without the amendment to the ordinance. Bob Waibel ~ I am interpreting the ordinance literallYoas I have been charged to. do. Roman Roos - Does the Planning Commission remember the grounds why we voted no? Dick Matthews - We didn't want to modify the ordinance because it applied to a lot of other situations rather than just this specific one. - What we were groping for was how do we keep the ordinance the same and let him operate. I guess there is no way to do that. Bob Waibel - The way the ordinance reads, no. Craig Mertz - The landscaping business does not fit within the definition of R-lA and that's what it is zoned at the moment. One option would be to rezone the property to commercial. C-3 provides for commercial landscaping businesses as a conditional use. However, if you rezone this property to C-3 you are opening the door to motor vehicle repair shops, boat dealerships, etc. You could change the definition of the permitted uses for R-lA and plug Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -2- landscaping businesses into that but I think you had doubts about whether you wanted to open all of that R-lA land in the city up to landscaping businesses. A third .A one that was thrown out for you was this one year permit~ business in Section 23. It says that by conditional use permit you can permit the location in any district of temporary uses which will not continue for a period of not more than one year. There is no mention in here of what temporary .uses are permitted but it is my understanding that when the ordinance was passed the Council was thinking of such things as construction shacks, maybe a model house at the entrance of a subdivision, sales office. It's a judgment call on your part whether you think that this activity fits in that temporary use category. Another option would be to create a whole different zone. A growing range, landscaping business zone and decide whether or not this piece of property would be eligible for rezoning to that category. Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - NATURAL GREEN, INC. David Luce - Doesn't it say that the Council has the opportunity to renew? Craig Mertz - Sure. The Village Council for good cause may renew such temporary permit. I take it you are not going to be pulling up stakes a year from now. David Luce - All I asked when I came in here was the opportunity to st~ for one year and sign a conditional use permit and look a~ it each year and I think that's in the best interests of the city because then you have full control over me. I think I mentioned in the past that we are looking at maybe three to five years in this particular location and then we will probably go out west toward Waconia. I am looking for a one year conditional use permit with the option to renew it if the Planning Commission sees it that way. Craig Mertz - Another option could be to take the position that the commission is not really certain whether landscaping businesses are appropriate outside of the commercial areas of the city but you are willing to extend this one year conditional use permit in this case for study purposes more or less in that a year from now you will decide the merits of the question. The question would be; should landscaping businesses be permitted in some zone of the city. David Luce - The important thing here is that we are not a retail outlet. We are not even a wholesale outlet. We are not selling to the public. They don't come in and buy from us. Walter Thompson - If.we can make this thing work on the basis of it's a temporary situation and we are preparing to study it over the course of the next year, if that's the way we can do it then I think we ought to go that row. It looks to me like it's the only route we can reall go without tieing ourselves up on all these other changes that we have already said we don't want to do. e . -- Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -3- Walter Thompson moved to recommend the Council issue a conditional use permit under Section 23 for a one year period. The Planning Commission is unprepared at this time to make a decision on the merits of the question of whether wholesale ~andscaping businesses should be allowed in the non-commercial zones of the city-and it's a further condition of the issuance of this permit that one year from now the Planning Commission will examine the performance of this particular use and decide what amendments, if any, are necessary to the ordinance to make same provision for landscaping businesses outside of the commercial zone. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. Staff will review prior Planning Commission minutes for conditions to be put ~n the conditional use permit. Dick Matthews moved that the proposed conditional use permit be prepared prior to submission of this file to the City Council for final approval for review by Mr. Luce and the Planning Commission. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. PUBLIC HEARING BRAMBILLA MOTORS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT Roman Roos called the hearing to order. The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. The purpose of this hearing is to consider a conditional use permit for the outdoor display of merchandise. The Assistant City Planner recommended the following be included in a conditional use permit: 1. That the applicant show a. lighting plan that shows. all illuminary for the property. 2. If any PA system is used that no audio residue permeate onto surrounding properties. 3. That landscaping materials be used to the fullest possible extent to groom the property and to define parking areas, etc. 4. That three of the parking spaces in the parking area as designated by the site plan, be reserved for customer use. Walter Thompson moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and unanimously approved. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - BRAMBILLA MOTORS: Mr. Brambilla stated that the lighting would be directed onto his property for security. Jerry Neher moved to recommend the Council grant a conditional use permit to Mr. Brambilla with the following conditions: l. No custom~r parking within the southerly ten feet of the.property. Sftch ten foot line will be delineated. 2. No excessive audio residue. 3. Lighting will be directed away from the highway. No strings of lights. 4. No parking of vehicles for sale within the southerly 25 feet of the property. 5. Pump island will be removed. 6. This is strictly a sales facility. 7. Landscaping improvements will not be necessary at this point in time. 8. A maximum of 30 cars for sale on'the property. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -4- PUBLIC HEARING PROPOSED SUBDIVISION, REZONING AND PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN COLONIAL GROVE SECOND ADDITION e Roman Roos called the hearing to order. Herb Bloomberg was present. The Assistant City Planner read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. The Assistant City Planner recommended that the Planning Commission look favorably on the proposal and recommend that the Council approve the preliminary development plan. Council review should be conditioned upon the applicants submission of a satisfactory document governing the management and control of the outlot to the City Attorney's office. Roman Roos - Do you have the covenants and restrictions already drawn up? Herb Bloomberg - They were drawn up by Cliff Whitehill who is a resident in the neighborhood. I would be happy to get a copy for the City Attorney. Roman Roos - I would like to have you state the use of the common outlot. Herb Bloomberg - Anyone in the adjoining subdivisions has the privilege of joining it. It is operated under by-laws set up by the charter and filed with the appropriate state authorities. We, personally, have the interest only in that we are a resident and will have a membership just the same as our neighbor. We deed it to this organization which ownes the property. That organization will pay for all the improvements, etc. ~ Hud Hollenback moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. PROPOSED SUBDIVISION, REZONING, AND PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN - COLONIAL GROVE: The Engineer stated that ,the plan is in accordance with their recommendations as to the ponding. It is more than adequate to accommodate a 100 year flood. The plan should be submitted to the Riley Purgatory Creek Watershed District for their approval and comments. Walter Thompson moved to recommend the Council rezone the proposed Colonial Grove Second Addition from R-l to P-l. Motion seconded by Dick Matthews and unanimously approved. Jerry Neher moved .to recommend the Council approve the preliminary plat of Colonial Grove Second Addition, Exhibit A, dated September 27, 1978, as shown. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson and unanimously approved. , , Dick Matthews moved that there will be no alteration or structures on the outlot without a conditional use permit. Mr. Bloomberg will prepare and submit covenants and restrictions for the use of the outlot. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback and, unanimously approved. The Assistant City Planner will review the file with the City Engineer~ to determine the amount of escrow deposit required of Mr. Bloomberg. OAKMONT - SKETCH PLAN: The applicant is proposing to subdivide approximately 194 acres into 30 2.5 acre lots. The property is Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -5- e located on the east side of Galpin Blvd.. between Lakes Ann and Lucy and is zoned R-lA. Sewer is not available to'the property. City water is available. The Council reviewed a proposal for the property in 1970 and rezoned it to P-2. A preliminary development plan was approved subject to sanitary sewer. . e The Assistant City Planner recommended that the Planning Commission accept the plans submitted for sketch plan review and that the Planning Commission advise the applicant that no further review of this proposal can be considered until either a change in the status of sewer availability on this property occurs or a change in the city's unsewered area policy occurs. Before any variance to the ordinances can be considered, the applicant or 'the Planning Commission must request that the Council waive Resolution 9ll72l which prohibits review of any proposals beyond the sketch plan phase in the unsewered areas. Mr. Elliot - I just received this report (Planner's report) this evening. We have had a couple of meetings with staff and I am not aware of Resolution 9ll72l. In any case Ordinance 45, 2.01 stipulates no development in the unsewered areas and I would like clarification of 2.02 which stipulates that in the unsewered areas I can plat up to a density of one unit for every 2.5 acres. I don't'understandwhy it's in conflict. Bob Waibel - Our last discussion'was at least a month ago. Since then I have had the opportunity to work on another proposal in the unsewered area as it referred to this resolution passed in 1972 which I had used after our discussion in another case. It applies to planned unit developments and in a way I guess the resolution is more restrictive. It maybe supercedent to this ordinance. , Craig Mertz - Ordinance 45 does say that as to unplatted unsewered properties that a developer is allowed to go ahead with 2% acre lots and that provision was enacted in March of 1971 so there is no problem with Ordinance 45. However, the following autumn the Council said that they did not want to entertain preliminary ,development plans unless the area was sewered.8o if you want to proceed with this application the appropriate thing would be to recommend to the Council that this resolution be rescinded as to this particular property and thereby allow the developers to have the public hearing on their preliminary development plan. Mr. Elliot - What about five acre lots, metes and bounds? How do you control those? Craig Mertz - It is correct that ,State Law says that if you divide a piece of property up into five acre lots, at least 300 feet in width, that those deeds can be recorded down at the court house and there is nothing that the city can do about it short of ' not issuing a building permit. If you want to proceed with this a motion would be to direct Bob to schedule a public hearing on this matter subject,nowever, Bob's obtaining from the Council a resolution rescinding this particular resolution 911721 as to this particular property. Mr. Elliot - We ask that you table or continue the sketch plan review until you hear from the Council regarding 911721. e Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -6- - Members were polled as to their feelings on recommending the Council rescind the resolution. Dick Matthews - With the lakes there it should have sewer. Tim Stone - I think there are a variety of other planning considerations besides the financial base of the city that come into play here and I have to swing with Dick,I feel uncomfortable concerning this project. Jerry Neher - I would like to see it postponed until such time as the sewer is imminent. ' Hud Hollenback - I agree. Walter Thompson - I'll agree. Roman Roos - It is pretty much unanimous on the resolution. postpone any further action until there is some of the sewer. That would be the recommendation Planning Commission to the Council. That would give us an opportunity to go to Council and talk to them about the proposal and what we are trying to do and get an idea as to whether it would fly. We would status of the Bob Waibel - In all fairness to the developers, that 911721 applies only to planned unit developments. There is a possible alternative route where they ask for rezoning to a subdivision classification. In other words they drop below the 24 lot minimum threshold for the planned unit development. That would involve another rezoning in the unsewered area. SKETCH PLAN - RICHARD ERSBO: Mr. Ersbo approximately 1.5 acres into four lots. the south side of Lake Lucy Road and is shown are deficient in lot area. is proposing to subdivide The property is located on zoned R-lA. All of the lots e Bill Brezinsky - He has shown a 60 foot right-of-way coming into the property. That can be reduced to 50 feet. Although the Subdivision Ordinance does require a 60 foot right-of-way radius for the cul-de-sac, this is such a short cul-de-sac that we would recommend that a variance be given to reduce that to a 50 foot radius. The lots are under 15,000 square feet. We feel with this reduction in the width of the right-of-way and by shifting the lot lines between Lots 1 and 2,and 3 and 4 to the south he will be able to pick rip four lots that have 15,000 square feet in area. As far as the status of Lake Lucy Road, our indications are that the most right-of-w~y that will be needed in the future is 80 feet. Right now there is 66 feet. We would recommend that they dedicate a seven foot right-of-way easement on the north side of Lots 1 and 4. Hud Hollenback moved to hold a public hearing on October 25, 1978, ~ to consider the Ersbo subdivision request. Motion seconded by Tim ~ Stone and unanimously approved. e e It Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -7- CHAPARRAL ADDITION - SKETCH PLAN: This petition is to subdivide and develop approximately 106 acres into a PUD. The property is located southwest of the Carver Beach Neighborhood and east of Powers Blvd. Sanitary sewer and water are available. Forty-one quadraminium units, 54 duplex units, and 72 single family units are proposed. John Schardlow, New Horizon Homes - Essentially our concept for the development of the property, we came out and met with Bob and Fran Callahan and went out and walked the site. There was initially a proposal that was done by Urban Scope which showed the park ,in this portion of the site approximately 10.8 acres as I recall which had this entire steeply sloped area right through the middle of it which as you know is pretty bad if you are planning active recreation. We walked the site to try and find the best location for a park and came up with this flat portion down here which has the advantage of being shielded from the north with this large hill and also being contiguous to this trail corridor which shows up on one of the plans that the city is looking at for a trail system throughout the whole City of Chanhassen and we thought of it as an opportunity to have an active play area with a trail link to this main trail system through the city. As Bob mentioned in his planning report our concept is to group the quadraminiums along this portion of the site. The duplexes in here, with the single family walkout units along the top of that ridge. Our concept for the storm water drainage is essentially to take it down with the street system and off with a swale into the main drainage corridor. Bill Brezinsky - The preliminary plans have been submitted to the watershed district and the DNR. Members expressed cot'~cern about an access of some kind from proposed Carver~. s Pointe to the p'roposed park and asked that the Park and Recreation Commission review this proposal. ROSS SUBDIVISION:]1r. Bruce Ross was present requesting approval to subdivide. 14.5 acres into two lots so that he can construct a home on his mother's property located on the east side of Highway 4l. Sewer and water are not available to the property. Members explained the basis for their disfavor which is the ordinances and policies of the city. Finding that this request is outside the policies of the city, Tim Stone moved to recommend that the Planning Commission not consider this proposal any further. Motion seconded by Hud Hollenback. The following voted in favor: Hud Hollenback, Tim Stone, Roman Roos, Dick Matthews, and Jerry Neher. Walter Thompson voted no. Motion carried. CRITERIA, INC. - SKETCH PLAN: Criteria, Inc. is proposing to develop single family and multi family residential units on 82.5 acres located near the southeast quadrant of the intersection of Highway 5 and 101. The property is zoned P-2. Sanitary sewer and water are available. The Assistant City Planner will meet with representatives of Criteria, Inc. to discuss the frontage road access onto Highway 101, the Planning Commission Meeting September 27, 1978 -8- relocation of the apartment buildings to the south~ and the connection of West 80th Street to Chanhassen Estates. HANUS FACILITY: The Planning Commission will review Mr. Hanus's e conditional use permit at the ,next meeting. RESIGNATION: Hud Hollenback submitted his resignation from the Planning Commission. Dick Matthews moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Jerry Neher and unanimously approved. Don Ashworth City Manager e e