1981 05 27
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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CHANHASSEN
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
HELD MAY 27, 1981, AT 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN COUNCIL CHAMBERS
APPROVED ON cr-;;.:Q(: ~ '81
Members Present: Chairman Art Partridge, C. Watson, H-~ NQziska,
w. Thompson, M. Thompson, L. Conrad
Members Absent: J. Thompson
Staff Present: S. Martin, B. Waibel, C. Mertz, B. Foreman
Public Hearing, Proposed Lake and Shoreline Ordinance, Private
Recreational Beach Out10ts:
Steve Riley from Pleasant Acres asked why they shouldn't be
able to launch boats from their own property. Partridge explained
that with the growing population and the greater use of the
lakes some means of control would have to be made.
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Scott Martin, Community Development Director, explained that the
current out10ts will be grandfathered in, and that the new
outlots will have to abide by the new ordinance.
Craig Mertz, Assistant City Attorney, explained that a grand-
fathered use or a non-conforming use means that the current
out10ts may continue as they are but may not expand. If the
current use is discontinued for 1 year or more the use will
have to go along with the proposed ordinance.
Bob Mortenson, Cypress Drive, expressed to the Planning Commission
that he resented that they were trying to place so many restrictions
on the lake shoEe owners.
Partridge indicated that the ordinance is trying to prevent
future abuse of over crowdpd lrikeR.
Jim Parsons, lake shore owner, indicated that the DNR, \vatershed
District and the Corp of Engineers already have restrictions on
the lakes and the property owners do not need another government
agency placing more restrictions on them.
John Cousins, 7307 Laredo Drive, asked if the proposed public
park on Lotus Lake has to follow this ordinance. It was indicated
that this is a public park and will be funded by the State so
the park will follow different rules.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 2
Conrad stated that the park will have only 12-13 parking spaces
and that no more boats than that will be allowed to use the
access at one time. No parking will be permitted on the road
side.
Mortinson expressed that he does not like the idea that some-
one from anywhere in Minnesota can come and use the lake and
have better use of the lake than the property owners in the
area who are paying taxes to live on the lake.
One of the lake shore owners asked if this ordinance had been
presented to the City Council yet. Mertz explained that the
Planning Commission has to review the ordinance and then rec-
ommend to the City Council for approval.
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Jim Parsons, Brule Circle, indicated that he felt that the
concensus of the group was that they were against having this
proposed ordinance. Partridge stated that the Lake Study
Committee has been working on this ordinance for 2~ years
and that everyone of their meetings were published in the
paper asking for some input from the public but no one ever
came to any of the meetings.
Some of the lake shore owners indicated that their Association
presidents had not been notified of the meeting they had to
hear it by word of mouth. Martin stated that the staff tried
to notify all the presidents of the meeting the best that we
could. The presidents should leave their name and address with
him so staff will have a more current list.
Les Fisher, Sunrise Hills, asked the Planning Commission why
only 3 or 4 items pertain to the lakes and all the rest of the
items in the proposed ordinance are about lot restrictions.
Wally Coudron, Chairman of the Lake Study Committee, indicated
that the Lake Study Committee wanted to set restrictions for
parking on grass and try to prevent erosion of the lake. Want
to try to make people responcib1e for what they have. Want to
eliminate potential problems rather than wait and try to solve
problems after they occur.
Conrad stated that the ordinance is for the future developments
they are not trying to reprimand the existing outlots. The
City should have good guidelines for development for those moving
to Chanhassen.
Cousins suggested that the City get the legal descriptions from
all the existing out lots and make a legal document stating that
these out10ts are exempt from the proposed ordinance.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 3
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One of the lake shore owners indicated that this ordinance
proposal is a good idea. The City is trying to preserve a
limited resource, the lakes have to have some kind of control.
Georgette Sosin, 7400 Chanhassen Road, indicated that her family
moved to Chanhassen from Minneapolis because of the lakes and
the wildlife. Both of these are very fragile and that if the
home owners in the area are not careful they will push all the
beauty into an irreversible situation.
Mertz indicated that the purpose of the non-comforming use is
that in a few years all the out10ts will be following the same
ordinance. If a non-conforming use is destroyed more than 50%,
the use may not be replaced.
Martin suggested to table this meeting until a time when the
Planning Commission and the Lake study Committee can get to-
gether and hold a meeting to discuss the ordinance further.
The public is invited.
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Conrad stated that he felt there were a lot of concerns that
were to be met by the grandfather clause that should be looked
into. Should be protecting the present home owners. Conrad
indicated that he couldn't make a positive recommendation
at this time but also feels that because of new developments
there has to be more restrictions.
M. Thompson indicated that the Lake Study Committee has been
working on this ordinance for 2~ years and he doesn't see a
problem with it. There is a strong misunderstanding from
the public about the grandfathered uses. All the Planning
Commission wants to do is protect the lakes.
W. Thompson stated that another meeting is a good idean. The
City doesn't have the control on lakes that they should have.
Noziska expressed that he agreed with M. Thompson. He feels
that the ordinance is good, a listing of the out10ts and their
exemption is a reasonable request but it would be a lot more
work.
Watson stated that she felt the ordinance was restrictive but
that was the intent of the Lake study Committee. Watson felt
that out10ts should be exempt by their condition.
Partridge agrees with what had been stated by the other Planning
Commission members. There has to be some control or the lakes
will be destroyed.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 4
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Motion was made by Watson seconded by W. Thompson to table
discussion on the outlot ordinance until such time as they
can meet with the Lake Study Committee and the Home Owners
Associations. All in favor motion was carried.
The date of the above mentioned meeting will be June 17th at
7:30 p.m. with the purpose of reviewing the ordinance.
Public hearing, Proposed Lake and Shoreline Ordinance, Surface
Waters and Shoreline:
One of the property owners indicated that he disagrees with
page 4 - 3.05; why limit the number of boats per lot. He
owns 7 boats and would like to have 3 more. Also is against
page 9 section 5; permits for ski jumps, slalom courses, etc.
There are State Laws for this so the City doesn't have to cover
it also.
Martin explained that the Lake Study Committee felt that the
City Council should be aware of any structures that were being
placed into the lake. They should have some restrictions.
The homeowner mentioned above was also against page 10 section 6 -
who decides what is astetica11y pleasing? Didn't like the idea
of no sea planes, he felt this should be look into.
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Martin brought up the ordinance with only one dock per lot.
Ron Bart, a lake shore owner explained that he has two docks
one on each side of his lot for the purposes of protection from
boats while swimming. He suggested that the ordinance be changed
to have two docks per lot.
Riley asked if swimming rafts have to have a permit. It was
indicated that a permit had to required from the sheriff and
the cost is nothing.
Partridge indicated that the new ordinance requires a permit
from the City Council for the reason that the City Council wants
to be involved to protect others who use the lake.
Mortinson stated that section 3.05 shouldn't limit the owners.
He feels that 50' docks are to short and that an owner should
be able to have as many boats as he wants with the requirement
that the boats be registered to the owner.
It was suggested to have a restriction for number of boats per
amount of frontage.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 5
It was asked if the grandfather clause applies to this ordinance.
Mertz answered that this ordinance would have to be followed
with no grandfathered uses.
Another property owner indicated that he felt the speed limits
were to slow. He suggested 50 mph because he can not barefoot
ski except at that speed. Mertz explained that the speed limit
was adopted from the DNR and that the City can be more restrictive
but not less.
Lance Fisher indicated that Section 3.05 should read - resident
instead of owner regarding the boats on the property because
of renters \o'\ho live on the lake.
Fisher regarding subdivision 10, indicated that this method was
used in California with a red flag where the boats are much
more conjested and it was unenforcab1e and very confusing,
Fisher felt that a raised arm would be even more unenforcable.
W. Thompson made a motion seconded by Watson to close the Public
Hearing. All voted in favor and the motion was carried.
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A motion was made by Watson and seconded by Noziska to table
this item until the June 17th meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion was carried.
Sketch Plan Review, Tract C, R.L.S. #38 Two Single Family Building
Sites, Michael Schmidt:
Partridge stated that this item is being taken out of sequence
because of the lateness of the meeting.
Waibel suggested that the Planning Commission not make any rec-
ommendations until the applicant has met with Bill Monk the City
Engineer.
It was asked if the applicant could connect a private sewer line
to the public sewer. Waibel indicated that it would not be
permitted.
Partridge asked staff if there are any problems with this request.
Waibel stated that 3 properties are land locked but that really
has nothing to do with this request.
The applicant is going to discuss this item with Bill Monk before
coming back to the Planning Commission.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 6
Discussion, Comprehensive Plan Draft Revision Reference 1990
MUSA Line:
The Chairman made a call iOrepresentatives from Eden prairie
School, Chaska School District, Minnetonka School District,
the City of Chaska and other municipalities abutting the City
of Chanhassen and no one answered that call concerning this
item.
Bob Waibel explained to the Planning Commission that at the
last meeting they had decided to send notices to the property
owners within 1,000 feet. Staff contracted with an abstract
company for the names and staff just received the list today.
Mr. Waibel suggested that the Planning Commission hold the
public hearing and that the notices to the property owners
can be sent for the City Council meeting. Staff did send
notification to the paper.
Motion made by Noziska and seconded by Watson to close the
Public Hearing. All voted in favor and motion was carried.
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A motion was made by Noziska and seconded by W. Thompson to
recommend to the City Council to approve moving the MUSA line
North of highway 5 and including the Minnetonka, Inc.
property. Also request City Council to forward this item to
Met Council.
Noziska amended his motion, seconded by W. Thompson to
include that staff will notify property owners within 1000'
of the subject property before the City Council meeting.
Four members voted in favor, Conrad abstained, M. Thompson
voted against, the motion carried.
Public Hearing, Rep1at Request for Park One, Instant Webb, Inc.
Waibel indicated that this item was introduced
ago. Notices were sent out for this hearing.
up.
about 1~ years
No one showed
Conrad made a motion, seconded by Noziska to continue the Public
Hearing until the Developer can be here to present his request.
Contiued to June 10th. All voted in favor and the motion was
carried.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 27, 1981
Page 7
A motion was made by M. Thompson and seconded by Watson to
adjourn the meeting at 12:15 a.m. All voted in favor and
the motion was carried.