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PRC 1993 12 14 ,.... CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 14, 1993 Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7 :30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Larry Schroers, Jan Lash, Jim Andrews, Jim Manders, Ron Roeser, Jane Meger and Fred Berg STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Program Specialist APPROV AL OF MINUTES: Lash moved, Roeser seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated November 16, 1993 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. NEW CHANHASSEN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL/CITY COMPONENTS DESIGN. DEVELOPMENT INPUT. ,..... Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Schroers: Space requirements, as we can see here is, it's limited. I mean what there is is what we have and in the task force we have tried to do everything reasonable to best take advantage of the space that's available by having dividers in rooms. By having dividers in the gym and by sectioning off the gym. Putting in a number of retractable basketball hoops so we can have half courts and 3/4 courts and that sort of thing and use the space that we have to the fullest. Is there any comment or question regarding the space issue of the rooms or the gymnasium or what they can potentially be used for? Andrews: Are we supposed to go through this like room by room. Make these little questions and answers here. Hoffman: Yep. Yeah, there's room for general discussion but these are the specifics that came out of that meeting. Schroers: Okay well. We may as well start then with room 43. It's kind of hard to keep switching over but it's pretty easy. Andrews: I guess for Room 43, the sign board. I guess my main concern there would be vandalism. Is it going to be the type of board that is covered up, enclosed and locked. And 150 square foot room which is also the entryway, I don't think allows enough room for a pay ~ 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....." phone to be put in there. Schroers: I think it's better to have a pay phone in the lobby because the phone is more likely to be used there for legitimate reasons. I mean kids wouldn't be. Andrews: ...phones which they will be better probably to have in the lobby. Better supervised. More secured. Schroers: Okay. Room 44. Should 3 to 5 vending machines be located here? Berg: Is there anyplace else they can go? Schroers: Who said we had to have 3 to 5 vending machines anyway? Lash: Don't have to but when I think about it, I think a lot of times people, they take a break from their game or right after their game if they're dying of thirst, it's kind of nice to have a pop machine. Roeser: I'd rather see vending machines than video games. Berg: Okay, that's what I thought they meant by vending machines when I first saw this is those blasted video games. If we have those within 100 yards of the place. ....." Lash: ...school during the day so kids couldn't go out to the vending machines during the school day. Hoffman: Well, there's going to be doors there. Whether or not they're locked from the school to the facility. Most likely they'll end up locking it There will be a security camera there that will be in the administrative office and in the office of the rec center. Lash: I guess I don't have personally a problem with a couple of vending machines. Manders: Yeab, that'd be [me with me. Lash: Snacks or candy or something. Roeser: But I'm not sure video games are good. Meger: No video. 2 ......" JIll""" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Andrews: No video. I think we've got consensus there. Schroers: Okay. Lash: Okay, so we said no to video games and you said yes to the following? Roeser: Yeah. Lash: What would be the purpose of the display cases? Just out of curiosity. What would you put in there? Hoffman: Community artwork, awards, special displays. Schroers: How about an events calendar. Hoffman: An events calendar would go in the display case down in the lobby. You could also duplicate that on the interior. There was once a push to put the display case out in this lobby but there just wasn't enough room. ~ Lash: Like what kind of awards? I guess I'm just not getting an idea of what would go there. Hoffman: It's miscellaneous stuff. The City's a member of the Tree City USA. We could sponsor or get a variety of things. Even the community organizations, certain...is awarded things on behalf of people. Those types of things. Or we could focus on some times the teams, the community teams get a trophy and nobody wants to send it home with anybody and those could go out here. And then general, there will be craft classes and classes of that nature in the community rooms. You could have focus every 3 months...and put those type of displays in there on what type of classes... Lash: What kind of expense does that? If they're very expensive I guess I wouldn't be that inclined to go for it. But if they're not that expensive, then I guess. Hoffman: ...the time to put them in, if you're going to put them in, is right off the bat because you have to plan for the recess of the cases. Andrews: I think we should do it because I think if we don't, I think we'll probably wish we had. ,.... 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....." Lash: When you're saying opposite Room 11, you're talking about that fIrst wall...? What are you saying when you're saying opposite Room II? Schroers: There will be no shortage for things going into the display case. If nothing else, somebody will make something artsy and put in it. Hoffman: Right on this wall. Lash: Oh, right there. Hoffman: So you lost me. We're into the vending machines. The video's out? Lash: Yep. Hoffman: Okay. And we considered the pay phone should be there but the vending machines, that's obviously an adult perspective. We consider the youth perspective, what they're going to go to this center for. I just want to be safe in that regard. When we talk about Filly's and why the kids go there. We talk about why kids go to certain locations. Dawn and I, while we had the conversation among staff is how we want that lobby to feel. Do we want it to be a hang out or is this going to be all youth or adult. .....,., Schroers: I think we're promoting parks and recreation, not entertainment. I think video game in my opinion is kind of entertainment and not really part of a rec, parks and recreation program. Lash: Well and part of my fear, I know what it's like when a kid starts playing video games and they get started and then they lose total track of everything else. So if they are there 5 minutes or waiting for their game and they're going to playa quick video game and then they're not going to get into their game, or if you're supposed to be waiting in the parking lot to pick up your kid after the game and they stop there for a few minutes to play a quick game and then they're all hung up playing the game. Roeser: Is this going to the City Council besides here though? Hoffman: ...decision? Roeser: Yeah. Berg: We're promoting family activities. Video's not it. 4 ....,." I"" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Lash: I mean if we get a huge outcry because it's not there, we can deal with it then. Right now I think everybody feels pretty strongly. Berg: I think it ruins Chaska when you walk in there. Lash: Absolutely. Berg: A gang of people playing the video games. That's not my idea of recreation. Lemme: We had that lengthy discussion. Roeser: She was saying something. Lash: So what was your position Dawn? Now we want to know. Lemme: ...because like Todd said, you have to look at it from a perspective of what is the image that you want to portray and who are you attracting to come in there. And so I was trying not to look at it from just my opinion on video games. I'm sure you've all weighed /"" both sides. Lash: Did we go with the display cases? Berg: Yes. Andrews: I'd like to see casual upholster type rather than the plastic sterile type. Lash: I was thinking something nice. I always liked the look where there's sort of island with the seats all around. Maybe a planter or something in the middle and then you could have, if there's room, a couple of odd chairs or bench type seating around the walls. Berg: Speaking of plants, that's not anything that's on here but I was just touring a new school today and very much institutional except the thing that saved it was lots of green. If we could have some real green plants in this lobby. Hoffman: That whole wall there is glass. That entry wall. This is all glass coming down. The school has a very long corridor and the doors would start right here after you're all in there. The security doors between the school and... Lash: And which is the glass wall? ,-. 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ~ Hoffman: This entire wall is glass. All the way down in the school hallway. Berg: That gives such a feeling of warmth. Hoffman: We started to sketch in this wall, right here as you look out the reception area will be lowered to a half wall so you have the full view of the lobby. And we talked about a couch type arrangement in here with the table and seats to create that island type effect. Any vending would go in here. The phone location would probably go in the center of the lobby somewhere. We also thought about some benches. Potentially this is a comfortable bench out in front of those windows. You could offset those with planters. This will be the place for green. In addition, inside these rooms. You know the dancing room is probably not a plant type of a room. Schroers: I don't know if it's premature yet but are the custodial people from the school, are they going to be taking care of our part of the building as well? Hoffman: Most likely. Schroers: As far as cleaning and that sort of thing. Hoffman: Yes. We will probably cut a contract where they will perform the inside maintenance and we will perform the exterior maintenance...as to what value each of those holds. ...."I Schroers: H you had someone else doing it, the upholstered furniture's really nice. H you've got to do it yourself, you don't want it. Hoffman: There will be staff here all the time and those people will be able to...intermediate type maintenance duties. What we'll find is they probably won't have a lot of time. Schroers: The upholster looks real nice when it's kept up but when it's not kept up it gets looking real tacky . Worse than a plastic. It accumulates lint and fuzz from sweaters and hair and that sort of thing and it's kind of a high maintenance item to keep clean. Lash: What kind of flooring is going to be in that area? And walls. Hoffman: In the entryway I believe it's tile. We start with some tile. Lash: The lobby area? 6 ...."",. ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: And then how about the walls? Are they just plain walls or is it brick? Hoffman: Masonry, concrete masonry block. Concrete block painted. I asked them to incorporate it I said that's not very exciting. Can we put some broken face type block into the program? You've got to understand that as we went through this process, all these architects come in and they shoot you a price and then what they try to come in low obviously because they want to make their budget...Right now, they're real plain so they're painted concrete masonry. And they said well we'll look at some add on of some add alternates. Sometimes your burnish base block, that type of thing. At least in the entryway. Would you rather come into a painted block type of a setting... Andrews: Go into that, what Minnetonka West Jr High there. Where they've got their gym facilities. It's that blue painted block and you feel like you've been sent to a maximum security prison. Lash: Maybe we could have a mural or something. But well now I guess Larry brought up ,...... the concern about, I like Jim's idea too of the upholstered. I like the look of it but if it's going to look tatty right away. Andrews: You can have a combination too with padded seats but plastic backs. Hoffman: Or wood. Have wood arm rests and cloth seats. Schroers: Yeah, I have a bunch of those and they, the deal is that they're nice. They're comfortable. They look real nice but they require quite a lot of maintenance and if you don't maintain them on regular basis, they get to look dirty. They've got hair all over them. They've got lint all over them. They've got popcorn stuck down in the cracks and they're quite a bit more work. Lash: Is it possible to get a catalog that shows some different options or would that take too long? I mean I can't even envision what some of the different possibilities are. Hoffman: You'll be buying this later on down the line. This is not a fIxed component of the building so. Lash: Well maybe we need to look at that one a little more. ;""'" 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ......", Schroers: In regards to other seating and furniture, is your question pretty much answered on that? Hoffman: In the lobby area, yeah. Berg: Why do we need a television? Schroers: That's what I say. Andrews: It's one thing you look at that room, it's too small. I mean there's just not a floor plan. Schroers: Who's going to sit there long enough to watch TV? Meger: And why would we want them to. Berg: Why are they there. To create couch potatoes at a community center. Lash: Another thing. If there's a major outcry, you can hang one on the wall. I wouldn't have a problem with that. If you wanted to redo it now and then someday. """""" Roeser: I just think if kids sitting around waiting for someone to pick them up and things like that, that sometimes it's not bad to have a TV set in a room like that. Lash: I guess that's why I think it would be fine to put in the jack and then we can see if it's something we want to put in later, at least we can. Schroers: That's reasonable. I like that. Hoffman: The other potential about a TV jack would be that if we ever get into an electronic bulletin board of activities being posted like you see at many facilities, that might be a real good way to do that so you can have an ongoing updated, you know this is in this room. This is in that room. That kind of stuff. That can be real... Schroers: Okay. Then going over to Room 4OA. Staff has proposed that sections A and B have vinyl tile flooring and Sections B and C be carpeted. What is our opinion? Hoffman: The two end ones would be vinyl and this would be carpeted in the interior. Roeser: What was that again? Do that again? 8 ....."" J!I"" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Hoffman: Tile on the two ends and then carpet throughout the center. Manders: I guess the way this one reads, it doesn't read that way. Lash: It says A and B would have vinyl. Manders: A and B, which are the bottom two. Lash: A-B have vinyl. C and D have carpet. Hoffman: It's the two end ones. And what that is based on is that then these doors, this wall and this wall would be...operating time. These two rooms are craft oriented. Activity oriented because they have the kitchen sets and those type of things and the flooring which is conducive to that. And the center area can be used for meetings and something where you have a more relaxed type atmosphere. There's a lot of alternatives though and that is one that came to bear so you can switch those around a lot. When you talk about a feel and when you talk about how it will work, when you open up all the doors. When you have an activity, which way is it going to be oriented and we think if you have a speaker, they're .;""'"'. going to be at a podium here and you're going to orient your crowd in this configuration so we have the center carpet and the two ends spilling over onto the tile. We talked about if you have a wedding in here, you would probably have the band, DJ down on one end or the other. Perhaps the food line on the back side and the seating down the center. That type of a layout so we're trying to come up with some type of activities which would be scheduled and how that flooring would work with activities. So we're looking for your input. Berg: One of the things that the high school that somebody brought up that I had never thought about, is there any concern with the carpet that there are chemicals in the carpeting that over the course of time can be injurious? Hoffman: I saw that on what, 60 Minutes. Something of that nature. I think we can bring that up when we go through specs. Lash: My initial reaction was to have both the carpeted ones together and both the tile ones together so that when you opened the door of the one right next to you, it would be the same kind of floor. But with the...that you just made, I guess the other way makes sense too. I just didn't understand the reason for doing that. Schroers: Is it real necessary to have a carpeted area for the meetings? I mean you just don't have a meeting atmosphere if you have a tile floor? "..... 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ...."" Lash: Is it acoustical more than anything? Hoffman: Yeah, think about putting a 12 x 12 vinyl tile floor in here and how comfortable would it. be to come in here for meetings. Roeser: Yeah, or if you're going to have receptions. If you're going to use the thing for wedding receptions and things like that. I think it's better with carpeting. Lash: The other thing I thought was, if you are having the two craft rooms and you have them next to each other, you'd have both rooms with sink facilities so if you had a larger group that had to have sink facilities, you'd have them right next to each other and you could take the wall down. Hoffman: That's a good point. We're also not sure what those little kitchenettes are going to end up looking like... Lash: How about economically, I would think it would make more sense to have the plumbing, no? Hoffman: It will be running up and down this whole corridor. Restrooms. ....., Andrews: I like your suggestion Todd of the carpet in the middle. I think if there were to be a food service operation, it would, it's going to take up some space and that could be in the tile section. Then the people could seat in the more comfortable carpeted area if they wanted to do it that way. And I think it makes sense to have it as you suggested with the two middle sections as carpet. Manders: Especially if you have all the floor open. It works out well that way. Hoffman: I think we talked a lot about the gym and the active space. I think this room is going to be programmed to the hilt. Lash: And then the other two rooms are what? One's aerobics and what's the other one? Schroers: Fitness room. Hoffman: And aerobics. Lash: So like workout equipment? 10 ...." ,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Hoffman: Workout equipment, rubber matting flooring, wood floors, mirrors, dance classes, aerobics. Berg: What was the carpet, those health concerns of mine? Hoffman: Yeah, that was a big deal. Schroers: Okay, are we in agreement that will work with the carpeting the floors? Okay, then let's move on to the Room 41. The fitness room. What would you like to see? Lash: Do we have to do the Section B and D first? Schroers: Well we kind of covered it Hoffman: How important...to the commission? Andrews: I think they're important. I don't know how you can do food prep without the ability to heat food. .,..... Lash: Even for crafts. A lot of crafts you have to have a stove. Hoffman: Okay. Berg: Are there bathrooms in this whole corridor, along here somewhere? Hoffman: Restrooms are located here and here. They will be moved to the north and this storage room as noted will go down next to the office. We have office, storage...restrooms right across the hall. Berg: So there are plenty, okay. Andrews: Todd, I know this sounds kind of wacky but with what's going on in the computer world today, and they talk about the electrical, the 110 and the cable TV and so forth, I would hope they're going to wire this for a data, separate data path too for the whole building. I mean there are going to be things that can be done that we can't even envision right now and the cost to rewire it again would be. Lash: I guess I would see that in the meeting area room too. A lot of people will have VCR's and TV's and things for different presentations. And anything else that you would need like a screen...any of those kinds of things I guess for presentations. Mic. A mic jack. "..... 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 -' Hoffman: The chamber has a speaker...technology that kind of blew the doors out for the city for a while and they really expanded... Schroers: Okay. Are we down to how much are we willing to spend to insure that they stay in the program? Todd, how are you going to come up, are you looking for a figure? Andrews: I just think we say it's a high priority. I mean to me without eating facilities, then I think we're really taking away a potential important use. Hoffman: I think it's going to get down to fire safety. The fire marshal's going to look, if you're going to cook, your stove top, that type of thing, they're going to want exhaust hoods, a tent, all those types of things. We can't get into that so we might have to compromise and list our uses which will specifically be on there. I'm not sure, the senior center did not end up with a stove. Lemme: And they regret it now. Hoffman: Yeah, because of that reason. Schroers: For what it's worth, our facilities get used a whole bunch and all we've got are microwaves. ....,I Hoffman: Your meeting rooms like this? Schroers: Yeah. Hoffman: You can heat food in a microwave. Lash: No, but I think of Scouts. If we have Girl Scouts there and they're making something, you don't microwave it but usually you bake it or, and you're making fudge or you're doing something that is cooking. Hoffman: It's going to be a tough decision. I'll let you know how it goes. Lash: I guess we'd have to know the cost before I could... Hoffman: Something will probably... Schroers: Okay. Anything else on 4O? I think we've kind of covered it. Okay. 41, the fitness room. What would you like to be programmed into this space? What should the ratio 12 .....-I ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 of machines like Stair Masters, Nordic Track, free weights and open space should be. Andrews: All I can say is every time I go to Chaska, you can't get on the Stair Masters or the Nordic Tracks but you can get on the free weights pretty easily. Berg: That's exactly what I've got noted here too. You can't have enough of Stair Masters and Nordic Tracks. Andrews: Stair Masters seem to the most popular. You go down there and they're just always busy. Schroers: A lot of people that are into free weights do those at home. I've never really seen big lines or big crowds around the free weights. Berg: Or they belong to a club that has a lot more of them than we could supply. Hoffman: The thing I thought about when I went through this. Remember Shoreview and how packed they were in there and how... ,.... Lash: They wanted more open space in that room? Hoffman: They wanted more machines. Lash: Oh, they wanted more machines. Because I was trying to figure what you were getting at. If you wanted open space in there, I didn't know what it would be for. Meger: Well, you could have some open space maybe for some stretching, warm-up before you got on the equipment. Schroers: Are we going to be consulting any kind of a professional, you know someone that knows something about managing a gym or a fitness facility? Or are we looking for any guidance there or are we kind of doing this on our own? Hoffman: I think that would be...a lot of manufacturers, they're going to provide...just go out there. Buy a bunch of machines, plug it into the wall and put the manual in front of the machine. Depends on how you want to staff it. What kind of emphasis you want to place on this area. Do you want to hire somebody? Do you want to consult with somebody on a consulting basis? It probably would not be a bad idea. ,.... 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....."I Lash: Gosh, wouldn't you think that the companies that make these things would be more than happy to come in. Hoffman: Certainly Nordic Track would be. Lash: For free? Hoffman: Sure. Schroers: Yeah, but they're not going to sit there all day long and coach people. Lash: Dh no, I thought you meant to come and talk to us. Schroers: Is that what you're talking about? Hoffman: Yeah. I referenced both issues in there. When you buy the stuff, how do you decide what to buy? And we could ask some trainers, consultants in that field. Once it's up and running, I don't think for this size of an area, it's financially feasible to put a staff person. Lash: No. .....", Andrews: Wouldn't it be nice if we could convince Nordic Track to kind of use this as a testing for their equipment. You never know. Berg: I'd like to give you the name of, he's a Phy Ed instructor at the Middle School who is very much into conditioning and knows an awful lot about it. He would at least, at the very least Scott could come in and talk to us if he felt he had enough expertise. And if not, he'd know who'd to get in touch with. Scott Stalling. Meger: Most of those pieces of equipment too, Nordic Track and Stair Master, they usually provide videos on instruction so if we didn't want to have somebody staffed in there, we could have the video available for viewing. Lash: Need a TV jack in there too. Meger: Somebody is always willing to help you out too. Hoffman: It's a given. It's a given that you'll need one in the aerobics and the fitness room, just for that purpose. Videos. Nordic Track makes all the machines now. They make all the 14 -' ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 stair. If you give them an exclusive, they might dump them all right in there. I don't know what Chaska Center got with them.. Andrews: Let's invite them over. Hoffman: I've got a small in there. Schroers: What an ideal situation. I mean they are so close that. Andrews: Help relieve their inventory over crowding. Schroers: Service or whatever. Lash: All the latest products for. Berg: Make it a test market. Schroers: They maybe have some kind of something for corporate or business or whatever I""""'" but. Hoffman: ...machines. We'll get the fitness modeL.health club are not the same as the home. Schroers: Okay. What more direction are you looking for in the fitness room Todd? Hoffman: That's it. Schroers: Okay. Aerobics room. Comments. Andrews: Any railings? Meger: Mirrors. Lash: When you said railing, you're talking about the thing for you to put your foot up on? Okay. Berg: How about built in speakers? The step things that they step up on and. Hoffman: Yep. And we have storage for those. ,... 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....,,; Meger: Mats. Hoffman: Nice wood floor. That cushion wood floor. Lash: You know what would be kind of nice, is there going to be a place for...coats and their boots in the winter? You go in there and you're going to have to put your boots somewhere and put your aerobic shoes on. Hoffman: We talked about two different things. Providing space in each of these rooms for coats and storage. We talked about having permanent coat storage out front. I thought people would be uncomfortable with leaving it out there and so we brought it into the rooms. And in the fitness and aerobics room, there will be a space for coat hooks...and your personal stuff and then where the lockers are. And then we'll have portable coat racks to be stored in here so when you have a big event you can roll those out into the lobby area. Schroers: Okay. Room 11. Reception desk, office, and we don't have an outline for this. Hoffman: That's this room here. You can see it's shown in one configuration. We did bring these storage room down so it's much more convenient to go back and forth. This would be an open desk. Counter. We talked, there's no need for a security drop door because when this building is open, the desk will be open. And when it closes, the desk will close. What type of things do you see are going to be necessary there? We know we're going to have to staff it full time. 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. at night. 5:00 a.m. untiL.at night so there's going to be one person there throughout the day. ....,,; Roeser: You need a cash register and all that stuff, money. Lash: What would people have to get, why would you need a cash register? Roeser: To get change. Andrews: Phone calls. Vending machines. Candy bars. Hoffman: Open gym. Lash: You have to pay to get in for that? Hoffman: Sure. Some programs...have to pay to get in, that's the check point. Manders: How about like, the aerobics room or weight room. Will there be a fee? 16 """"'" If""'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Hoffman: It could be an operation decision can be made by the commission later on. Berg: What I liked about Shoreview was how comfortable it was when you came in. So whatever we can do to minimize that looking like a reception area. Andrews: Hang up some local artwork. Artists. Schroers: Basically what that's going to be is a information and support office. That's the thing. The people using the building there are going to, well who do I ask about this. Can I move these tables? Can we stack up these chairs? You know. How much stuff can be stuff in the stove? Whatever. That's probably going to be the biggest need is someone just to answer questions and direct traffic. Hoffman: Do you feel it's going to have to be securable so everything can be locked or is that person just for that very reason... Manders: Some kind of intercom system. ""......" Hoffman: There will be an intercom where you can speak into all the rooms. Lash: There need to be phones...Could you have the storage area, have a doorway that would come into that area so the person could go into the store room and that could be lockable so if they needed to put. Hoffman: It'd be most likely from the office to the storage there will be a door and then probably out into the gymnasium floor. Okay. Schroers: Anything else? Okay. Room 6A and B. Lash: Are you talking about hand towels...fabric, those roller things or paper ones? Hoffman: Paper. Schroers: I like having the option of both. Electric dryers are fme except when you want to wash your face or wipe off your glasses. Berg: Or if you're in a rush. Schroers: Yeah. Then there are times when I really don't like the electric dryers at all. "..... 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 --" Lash: How about the hand towels Larry? Do you have trouble with kids put hand towels in the toilets and. stuff? Schroers: Absolutely. And they love to build fires with them also. I mean it is just, it kind of depends on how attractive you make them also. I don't see in this facility, in the way it's going to be used that, it just doesn't, I don't get the feeling that that's going to be a place that kids are going to target for mischief. Lash: Not because they won't target it for mischief. Berg: I wouldn't agree with that either. If it's there, it's a target. Somebody will but. Lash: But I think for the convenience factor too, I think it makes... Schroers: If you're in the gym and you're all, you go in there and you're all sweaty and you've got sweat running in your eyes, I mean the hand dryer's not going to do you much good. Hoffman: ...they make it recessed so they're flush with the wall. You know the waste receptacle and the towels where you have to bring them out so if you ever think you're going to want to take them away. ..."" Lash: Well you can just not stock them. If it's really a problem. I think baby changing stations would be real nice in the men's room. Hoffman: They're added. Lash: You don't have to put them in the ladies. Berg: Is there anything they can use for partitions that can't be carved? Lash: Chicken wire. Semi private. Hoffman: My comment was, whatever you do out here, what you make it out of, make sure the fasteners are good. You see so many restrooms where they're just hanging from the wall. It looks kind of beat. Andrews: Right. Metal with good fasteners. Hoffman: Good. That janitor's closet, that's got to be... 18 ..."" ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Schroers: I know one problem with all janitor's closets is that they're too small. Hoffman: I think this has got a 3 foot door on it so it's a big door. Berg: Is this where they'd be storing the... Schroers: For vacuum cleaners, floor scrubbers, mops and buckets and all that. Andrews: It's going to have to be wide enough to get those brooms through. Schroers: Okay, Room SA. Storage. Hoffman: Is that okay...? Berg: Yeah. Schroers: SB, gym storage. "... Hoffman: In that block next to the gym. Schroers: I think this space will be inadequate. That seems to be a trend in the industry. I mean storage space for a cost per square foot just does not seem to be a priority at all. They'd rather haul it to another building someplace. Lash: How tall is the ceiling in there? Is it just a regular 8 foot or is it taller? Taller? Hoffman: Taller, yeah. Lash: Like way taller or just a little taller? People never utilize this space at the top. If you could figure out some way of accessing that. Schroers: Have you ever been in a well lit storage room? You turn on one little light and you can never see what it is that you're looking for. Hoffman: Come and visit our's. I'll take you to all of them. Half of them are offices. Lash: Go to the school district, they're classrooms. Schroers: I think you want to mix the lockers. You should have some that are stacked half and half and some full length. ,...., 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ...."I Manders: The full length ones are nice to have. Schroers: The full length ones are the nicest but they don't, you know if you go with all full length one then you can't accommodate as many people. If you come dressed to play basketball and you just brought your bag along, a half locker is fine. But if you stop after work and you're in business clothes or whatever, a full locker is nice. Lash: What, is there some way to secure these? Manders: Bring your own lock. Schroers: Or rent one from the city. Lash: Is that something that we'd want to provide? Schroers: Absolutely. Hoffman: ... we have towel storage. Meger: Who does the towels then? Send them out. -'" Hoffman: Towel service. Lash: Well, what would you need towels for? There's no showers is there? Berg: Yeah. Lash: Oh, there's showers there? Andrews: Read on Jan. Schroers: I think the ceramic tile and removal matting is standard. I've seen it every place that I've been and I like the matting versus the bare floor. Lash: What are you talking about? I don't even know what that is, removable matting. Schroers: It's that thick stuff that you walk on instead of the floor when you're barefoot. Hoffman: There's some health club advocates on staff and they want to carpet the lockers. 20 -"" ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Berg: r d like to see a scale in each locker room. Schroers: Digital. Digital read out. Berg: Only visible to the person standing there. Lash: And only go up to a certain number. Berg: Right, there you go. Hoffman: Does anyone have any feelings for how many lockers need to be available? Lash: How many adult games can go on at the same time? Two? Hoffman: Two or four. Meger: Plus you could have an aerobics class. I""'" Lash: Okay, how many guys are on each team? Hoffman: It depends on what court you're playing. Lash: Well what would be the most? Meger: Volleyball. Lash: So how many on a team, 9? Ruegemer: ...90% of the people attending these types of activities are dressed and ready to go by the time they get there and they probably won't be using the facilities. Hoffman: We're thinking 35. Andrews: That sounds good. Schroers: Is there also a place for a coat hanger? Or I mean a coat rack. Hoffman: A coat rack will be available and then the full length mirrors as you walk out. There will be coat hangers there. This shows too many lockers right now and they'll be pulled up and there will be a full length mirror as you walk out. Okay...too many, too few? ,..... 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 .....", Berg: I wrote down 6 but I think probably 4 is appropriate. Lash: It depends on how big the space is. Hoffman: We might have to expand it to put 6 in. Berg: 4 is perfect Hoffman: No family lockers in this program. Is this going to haunt us? Andrews: Yes it will. Berg: Based on Shoreview, it's going to come back real quick. Lash: But that's a whole different situation because that's the pool. I don't really see where a kid would have to come and do major changing here. Manders: You're going to have this here whole entertainment area that you're probably going to have to...environment there. Berg: You don't change for that though. .....", Roeser: The family locker rooms are basically for people who go swimming as a group aren't they? I mean you don't have families coming in, not everybody's, families don't come in together to play volleyball. Meger: And if they do, they'd probably be dressed. Lash: I mean when kids are going to be coming here to play, they're going to be coming ready to play. I would say 99% of them will be coming in. They may just pull off their sweats. Roeser: We'll wing that. Hoffman: The other...is the guardian. The person of an opposite sex is a guardian of a person. Some sort of visibility. Andrews: If you're stuck, you could go into the bathroom. Go into the stall and change up and get out of there. 22 .....,I .1fI"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Berg: Maybe you want to think of that when you're staffmg the entry area too because there might be somebody, a male or female there that could help in that kind of situation that could be trusted too. Andrews: ...creating a real small, private changing room for that situation. You're only going to have a very rare occasional need for that. We could have a 6 x 6 cubby hole for that. Hoffman: I don't think we'd ever want to do that, what Fred was thinking about it Sending a staff person down...Canterbury Downs is the example where they ran into it where they had no restrooms for two people to go in the opposite sex that needed to go in so they manufactured...made a unisex private bathroom. Something to think about. We'll talk to the architects about it. See if they...trends. These could be private restrooms but right now they're so large that doing that would not fully utilize your space. Where you lock the doors and go in. Then you've got the gym. Lash: Can you show us where the bleacher seats are supposed to be? Is that from the end there? So that's just like a major game that would be full court, right? Down this way or. "... Berg: Across. Lash: Okay, so it's just provided for the one gym. Berg: Center court of Chanhassen. Schroers: The gym is the school's, it's not our's. Hoffman: During the evening this will all come down and then if you play tournaments, you're going to have seating here and you're going to have...that's about the best we can do. We want to put it in our program. The school doesn't need it for their's. Lash: That is, I'm telling you though. I go to a lot of basketball games and that is the pits sitting on the floor. For an hour and a half, or whatever it is. Even if we have folding chairs. I know at Chan they used to, you could go and get a folding chair and bring it in and put it against the wall. At least you're not sitting on the floor the whole time. Andrews: It seems like a lot of seating to me. Roeser: I was wondering if that's a lot. ,....., 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 --' Andrews: If you figure, the intent here is interested family members. If you had 10 kids on a team that's, I don't know. Hoffman: They were coming down originally and one of the thoughts is you can push these in and have three rows out. Or you could pull them out. If you had, what would you call it An auditorium type events where you set up the focal point here. You pulled out these seatings and then you did auditorium seating up to the front. That would make a pretty decent layout for that just one type of use. But again, when you have tournaments going on, you're going to have seating here for this court. So you're probably going to play your major games up here but then this is going to play second fiddle right here. . Lash: I could see for, and I don't know what's in the new elementary school plan for this kind of thing but I know at Chanhassen Elementary and some of the other schools, there's really a lack of space where you can have a program for more than one grade level at a time and be able to seat all the parents. Andrews: Like a music program. Lash: Yeah, that kind of thing. We really are lacking that at Chan Elementary and there's no way that they can accommodate that now. So if this could be used for things like that I could see the 200 seating. It's just for basketball it seems like a lot. ..." Hoffman: This shows 7 rows so you go 30 wide on 7 rows. You've got 210. Roeser: Well I'm sure you're going to get at least that much. That's 80-90 feet long at least Hoffman: So go 5 rows. Andrews: I think probably if you're looking at cost, it's going to be $200.00 difference. Why worry about it. Hoffman: We talked of, this shows it going all the way out to the end...so we have more space on the sidelines. Andrews: Any accommodation for spot lighting or. Hoffman: Lights. Spot lighting. We did not talk about. Roeser: Any overhead iighting that you could, say if you had a concert or the chorus were singing, sitting in front of that seating. It seems to me that there should be some kind of 24 .....-I "" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 lighting that you could throw down on whatever you're doing there. At least the plugs and the things that you need to go in with some, you know...and things like that Lash: Also mic, again mic jacks. Hoffman: Mic jacks are in there. You try to stay away from a lot of things in the floor. They end up being a problem so we're bringing that in from the. Roeser: How high is the ceiling of the gym though? Hoffman: ...high enough. Schroers: Basically we're saying here that we like that it holds 200 seats for the bleachers. And the 6 fully automated baskets? Andrews: Yes. Schroers: Very much so, yes? ,.... Berg: I was going to say, is that all you can put in there? Andrews: That's all you can do. Manders: Is that a wall then there, and the basket's in the middle of those two? Hoffman: Portable wall. Manders: Oh they're just hanging down from the ceiling. Hoffman: Fully automatic. Andrews: Are there supposed to be automatic both recline as well as adjustable height for the youth versus adult? Ruegemer: The basket? Yes, they will be electrically. You can adjust the height. Berg: Good question. That's real important. Schroers: Okay. Floor hardware for volleyball and tennis standards. I""'" 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....." Roeser: Tennis is not going to be a big one. Playing tennis on a wood floor is bad news. It limits. Then only a few people can do this. I don't.. Andrews: The volleyball a definite must Schroers: Permanent floor striping is an issue. Which sports are essential? How comprehensive do we want to be without cluttering? Andrews: I think you need the floor striping for those two sports. Lash: Is there something else that we're not thinking of? Hoffman: ...the school gym, they probably have badminton, floor hockey. Potentially we thought we could incorporate that into basketball. Shuffleboard...tennis. Ruegemer: Yeah, we could eliminate those. Hoffman: Except the major ones. If you do anything else, tape it. Roeser: Go with the major ones and see what kind of demand you get --' Hoffman: Okay. Schroers: Okay. What did we miss in the program? Hoffman: Scoreboard. Lash: The what? What was that? Andrews: Scoreboards. Hoffman: We're talking about portable. You just...We need four portable scoreboards. You could put one here and you could probably put it in their gym...and then you have to run them from a central point We have scores out there when we have the leagues and these portable ones come, they're fme. What do they cost, $800.00 a piece? Ruegemer: Yeah. Manders: Another thing I would mention is clocks in these other rooms so that there's... 26 -' I"""" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Hoffman: Water fountains are here. Ruegemer: At the entrance of the gym. Lash: That's it? Roeser: Yeah, you don't want them in the gym. Hoffman: Yeah we talked about putting them in the interior of the gym. You don't want them on the floor. So going into the gym here and at the entrance so these people can come out. Andrews: Any chance you can have drop curtains going the other direction too for volleyball? Like at Chaska they don't do that and man it's just really bad news. Hoffman: ...will be just purchasing. Schroers: Okay, anything else indoor? ~ Lash: That just doesn't, I'm sorry but that just doesn't sound like enough drinking fountains to me. Andrews: For Chaska they have one drinking fountain area serving the two gyms. It's just like that really. It's fine. Lash: Okay. Berg: A lot of them bring their own water stuff anyway. Water bottles or whatever. Lash: When kids are playing, if there's four games going on at the same time and then everybody has half time at the same time. Andrews: That's plenty. Schroers: Okay, let's move to the exterior program. What design and surfacing should be utilized in the construction of the hockey rinks to accommodate both winter and summer skating. Lash: Are you talking about Rollerblading? ,.,.., 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....."" Hoffman: Yep. In line skating. Pretty fIred up about this... Andrews: What'd you find out? Hoffman: We need to have, they build it for speed skating...and within 2 years it's going to be an in line skating facility with ice on the side. Schroers: So what do they use for, what are they going to, the ice is not going to be in the same area? Hoffman: The ice will be there about 5 months out of the year and they'll skate... Schroers: Okay, then what surface are they putting the ice. Hoffman: Poured concrete. Lash: Okay, so can we do that? Ruegemer: Sure. Hoffman: It's just an expense deal. We're going to be innovative in this. I sat with about 35 Park and Recreation Directors today at this meeting up there. We talked a lot about, people are, they're just taking normal hockey rinks and blacktopping them. There's not very many surprisingly around and what the original intent was for getting a smooth and even ice surface and getting it earlier and having it stay longer because when you don't have the grass underneath it, it doesn't break up. And then nobody ever thought about in line skating. Then all of a sudden that became fashionable. One concept is just to put a big sheet of concrete out there and do the light standards probably on the exterior...with permanent boards of some type. On this slab, probably have the interior area. Some lights as well, light standards. You have icing here obviously in the winter. Then you have in line skating and hockey, in line hockey in here in the summer but then you also can utilize the exterior for in line skating as more of a recreational. ...,., Andrews: I like that. Hoffman: Recreational type. Then you block these areas so you don't get skating...It's going to be expensive. HGA is going to snub their nose at us. They're going to want to put blacktop in. But concrete, brushed light green fInish on concrete is really the way to go. Maintenance wise we're really trying to find a new, a nice board to put up here. There should be some new materials out there. If you can stay away from wood, from a 28 ...""JI JIll" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 maintenance rotting. They weather. But we don't know what that is yet. Andrews: How about that poly propylene stuff they make park benches out of! Hoffman: Possibility. Because you use the glass, the poly... Roeser: Is permanent the route to go on the boards and everything? Hoffman: For summer hockey, sure. You go...where you take them down but then you don't have the boards for hockey. Lash: What do you mean summer hockey? Andrews: In line hockey. That's getting big. Hoffman: So that's the current exploration. I think we'll touch on it a little bit later and... some comments on what we do about the lights but as you can see without lights on the tennis courts and...how are we going to operate without them. 1""'. Schroers: We have to, you know an option may be phasing it. Doing it kind of in phases in order to get what you want rather than settling for something substandard. I mean I would think that you would really want to push for the concrete versus the asphalt and I would prefer to do something like that in phases rather than settling for something less than we want. Hoffman: Yeah, they're going to say concrete's twice as expensive or three times as expensive but it will last 15 years... Andrews: Plus when you try to flood a dark surface, I would think you're going to get ice a lot faster with concrete and longer. And it is a much better skating surface. Hoffman: Okay. We'll continue to go for that And the play areas. The problem is we don't have the exterior program... As you recall they had to separate it and a lot of...separate the... older children. Do you have an idea where you want that to go? Right now it's located on the east end of the site. Not near the central building which will be located on this site. And some general comments, guidance in that regard. Lash: The District is providing one play area. That's directly behind the school, right? And we're providing one that's further east. So their's will obviously be for older children so our's would have to be for the younger. J1I'" 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 .....,; Hoffman: Where would you provide. What they're saying is, you can provide them both right in the same general area but separate them. Their's will not be for that 3 to 5 age. So that should be the first phase if you're going to. Really what we'll be doing is allowing space for it because we're not buying it with the initial program... Meger: So I would think you would want them in fairly close proximity so that if you're a parent and you have one child on one playground and one on another, that you can see both of them. Lash: And if it's more centrally located, if the one the District's providing is behind their building. If our's was more centrally located, say, I think there are four fields? So if it was more between the two middle ones. Because when it's smaller children, you'd be more comfortable with them staying as close as possible to where you're watching them play. So to have it way at one end would be too far for some people to send their little ones. Hoffman: There's no hope for having supervision at both sites at once. Lash: No, but if you're, if you're there, you're probably watching one kid play and then if it's an older one, you probably wouldn't be as concerned with watching but a smaller one, you'd want to be able to see more. ....." Hoffman: Got it. Fred, do you want to update us on what you know about money? Berg: Yeah. I guess maybe this should be off the record a little bit. I'm not sure that the liberty that I. (The tape recorder was turned off at this point.) ESTABLISHMENT OF FIELD SCHEDULING POLICY REGARDING ORDER OF PRIORITY. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Lash: When you're talking about local youth organizations, is that like CAA and scouting? Ruegemer: Correct. Lash: Would that be for these activities too? Or not. Ruegemer: What kind of my, really the driving force behind this kind of had to do with 30 ....", ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 really the baseball leagues and some of the youth groups. As far as South Tonka Little League and CAA's baseball program. Look at the Lake Ann #2 scenario. Look at #3. How they want to convert that over. I think we just need to start thinking about them a lot more now. As far as, because South Tonka by rights, you know there's a lot of Chanhassen residents that play up there. Maybe not as many as the Athletic Association but I think we need to take a look at that too. You know they've got some type of a distribution or need for bases, I think they should have a right to play on our facility as well. They're tax paying citizens as well as the majority of people that might in the Athletic Association so. Lash: I think on a proportional basis, it would be fair. Ruegemer: I think really what staff would like to have is maybe some guidance. It'd be just sort of brainstorm. H you have ideas already written down. After reviewing just some of the information that I provided as far as from districts, maybe just read through that Maybe it sparks a couple ideas. That may be my system in developing this type of a policy. ,..... Andrews: I think the fIrst thing you've got to do is defIne what's youth. At what point do we go from youth to adult, because there will be somebody that will try to use that point to get their group in. You know they're young enough to be youth or in the case where youth is a disadvantage or too old to be youth and they ought to be adult. The other question, I think distribution is the way to do it. There are many, we live in the Tonka School District. We have many situations where we have a team that's entirely from the Minnetonka School District using Minnetonka park facilities but yet we would, certainly there are times when we would need to use Chanhassen facilities and we're not part of the CAA. Ruegemer: I think your situation too Jim is kind of unique as well. There's a lot, maybe some of your neighbors that live up in your development that do play Tonka United or whatever. Andrews: They virtually all do. Ruegemer: Yeah, because they're Chanhassen residents, they still need a place to practice and. Andrews: And I...it's been we've been treated second in line. I don't think that's right. There also are teams that are only partially Chanhassen residents that are participating in Tonka Park and Rec programs that need practice space too so, I think the best way to do this, when you look at a team, where are they from? Now so much what are they called or what school district are they but how many of them are Chanhassen people and then use that, because that's really, that's who's paying the bill are the Chanhassen residents. I think that ,.... 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 .....,iI has to be. Lash: I agree it's where they're from and I think that's been the outlook all along. At least that's the way I felt but when, if you're talking about scheduling a practice as opposed to a game, I guess I don't have a problem with some of the fields for practice. I think what gets in demand is Field #2 at Lake Ann and if there are kids from Chanhassen in CAA or South Tonka or wherever they're from and they're not able to play their games on the best field because another team is using that field for practice, when you can use other fields for practice. I guess I feel like if there's a shortage, the best field, which I think is #2, isn't it? Ruegemer: Correct Lash: Okay. That should be more for the games and if you're running into a conflict Andrews: Yeah, games should take precedence over practices. There are teams that I think over practice. We've got teams that are practicing 4-5 nights a week. I guess I'd rather see that team be forced to practice one less night and offer another team a chance just to play, so I agree with Jan on that Meger: Do you build in some timeframes too as well as, for instance maybe I'm McGlynn Bakery and I'm in Chanhassen and I'm going to call 3 months ahead because I want to have this activity on this field and then one month before there's a youth group from Chanhassen that wants to use that same field. So do you have to consider. -" Ruegemer: Typically in that case, a lot of that's on the weekends where a lot of the existing fields are available. During the week we really don't have any picnics or types of, at times we do but we do have our leagues and then there are Little League programs and girls softball programs and that going on so... Lash: But you still do run into the problem with South Tonka. I agree that Jim's team maybe is all kids from Chanhassen and then there are teams, a couple of teams that maybe half of the kids are from Chanhassen but then there's a bunch of teams where maybe none of the kids are from Chanhassen. So you, I don't understand how you'd even be able to figure that out myself. Ruegemer: Right Andrews: By roster.e Ruegemer: Yeah, some type of a, like Jim said. Maybe, I don't want to get in the business 32 -" ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 of checking kid's ID or something. That's really not where we're at but I believe that we do need to provide some type of facility in that case. Andrews: It's a real, I think you've heard me talk before how frustrating it is. I mean we've been told, or heard people say well, if you want to use the Chanhassen facilities, why don't you go talk to CAA. CAA tells you, well as long as you're in Tonka, go up there and work with them. So there is a lot of this passing the buck back and forth of who's really in charge and who should get priority and I think getting this kind of a priority list is really important. And I think it should be, who are the kids. Or who are the people. Now who are the organizers or where the team is, where their league is. I mean the point is, our duty is to the citizens of Chanhassen. It doesn't matter if those citizens of Chanhassen happen to choose to play in the Minnetonka Park and Rec league. They have paid the taxes that have provided these facilities for the youth and that's who should get first priority. Now a tearn that happens to be called a Chanhassen tearn that only has 2 Chanhassen residents on it, to me does not deserve priority over somebody that's all a Minnetonka team that has 20 Chanhassen residents. ,...., Roeser: Is it a common thing that there are tearns with 2 Chanhassen residents on it playing in these leagues? Andrews: Yep. Because it happens in Tonka. I know it works both ways. Lash: Kids get...tearns? Andrews: Oh sure. Yeah, we got kids on soccer tearns that are coming from allover the place. Lash: In CAA? Andrews: In Tonka. And I'm sure CAA is the sarne thing. Roeser: Well why do they do that? I mean what's the point? If you're going to have a league in the South Tonka League, if it's going to be in Minnetonka, why would you take kids from Chanhassen or anywhere else and put them in these leagues. Andrews: That's school district lines is a lot of it. Hoffman: Where you identify, Victoria comes this way and they go to Chaska. It depends on what their line is and where their church is. ,..... 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....., Roeser: But Victoria of course is Chaska School District Andrews: But like for Tonka, most of the sport teams are kind of school affiliated. I mean that's who the kids know. Lash: Didn't South Tonka change their thing last year or whatever, and they grandfathered in some kids but that's about to end and in the end wouldn't that mean fewer kids from Chanhassen playing on it? Andrews: No. Ruegemer: That was kind of...type of thing. What that is, the boundaries now are realigned. The...and the East Tonka Baseball Association. It all has to do with population. East Tonka now, they just sanctioned now another charter so now they just expanded their whole..J guess their whole broad league now. Now South Tonka does not have to rearrange their boundaries now so we're at the same really point where we were a year ago. Now their, South Tonka's line now goes all the way down to Pioneer Trail. Andrews: It's getting more and more confusing. ......" Ruegemer: It is. It is. And that's why it is important to get this type of a policy. Lash: I guess what I was trying to say Jim, and we're maybe crossing here. If you have a couple of teams on South Tonka that are all Chanhassen residents, yes. I think that they should have as much right to a field as any of the CAA teams that have Chanhassen kids on it. But then if you've got half of the teams or more who have no Chanhassen kids, are you going to be able to say, well your team and your team and your team, you can come and play over here but the rest of you guys, you can't come and play on these fields because none of you live in Chanhassen? Andrews: That's what we're saying, yeah. Lash: But you're saying that? Andrews: You have to, yeah. Lash: Well I'm thinking that but I didn't figure you'd be thinking that Andrews: Well you have to draw a way to prioritize and that's the way to do it. I mean how 34 ......" ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 else can you do it. Roeser: The other way you could do it is to keep the kids in Chanhassen playing in Chanhassen leagues and the kids in Minnetonka playing in Minnetonka leagues. Andrews: That ain't gonna fly... Roeser: Some kind of decision's got to be made. Andrews: School district lines cross. I mean that's how it's set up. Lash: The kids who live up by Pleasant View are going to want to play with their friends from school. Berg: Does the bias work the other way too? Does Minnetonka have a hard time letting kids who live in Chanhassen who go to school in Minnetonka, do they have a problem with those kids playing in Minnetonka? "..... Andrew: No. They are actively accepting people. They'll take any, all you want. Schroers: I have friends that take their kids to Minnetonka to play for several reasons. It's closer. There's more programs to choose from and they feel that they have better competition and a number of things. So I think there's a number of reasons why people cross boundaries and a lot of it is convenience. Where they have to drive in order to get to haul their kids. Andrews: It makes it tough with the two school districts because that seems to be the pull, at least with the younger ages. But I think we've got to, like Jan said and I agree exactly with what you said. There's no other fair to do it other than say, take care of our residents. That's our fIrst priority. I don't know of any other way you could do it. Yeah, there will be some Tonka park and rec teams that may come over here and say geez, you know you've got one team over here. They're in Chanhassen practicing. Why can't we? Well, the reason why is this is a Chanhassen team. That's the best answer you can give them. Berg: I've got no problem with that. Lash: I don't either. Would you be able to fIgure that out Jerry? Ruegemer: I could start kicking around some type of a percentage... ,.... 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 -" Andrews: For soccer it's easy because the people that are doing the Minnetonka Park and Rec leagues live in Chanhassen. Ruegemer: Dave Rouse. Andrews: Dave Rouse, yeah. Lash: Well I don't have, with your 1,2, 3,4, I don't have a problem with your suggested way of computing who gets fIrst dibs with that example. Does somebody else have a problem with that? Roeser: You've got park and rec activities and then local youth organizations. Is that Chan Athletic. Association? Ruegemer: Local youth organizations would be CAA, South Tonka, Soccer Association, Girls Softball. A lot of that criteria too has to go with past use. Are people really using their space to the maximum or are they just kind of blocking out space and not using it A lot of those components are going to be used as well...determining future use. Andrews: The pressure's just building incredibly for space. Where we had to chase for soccer games this fall was just absolutely crazy. ...", Schroers: Do you need any more direction on that? Ruegemer: No. Schroers: You got what you need? Ruegemer: If anybody else has any comments or any questions, you can call... EST ABLISHMENT OF TIME LINE: UPDATE OF RECREATION SECTION OF COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. Schroers: I'm going to let the rest of you comment on that. Basically they're asking for a second meeting per month in order to get the comprehensive plan updated. Lash: I would move that we extend our schedule to meet twice a month until we accomplish the comprehensive plan update. Schroers: Is there a second? 36 ...", "., Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Meger: I'd second it Better to do it now before summer. Andrews: Discussion. Would this be after the, or meeting the second Tuesday in January then or starting in February then? Hoffman: It'd be in January. Andrews: Okay. Hoffman: Unless you want to start in February. Andrews: No, I support the sooner the beuer. Lash moved, Meger seconded to amend the Park and Recreation Commission meeting schedule to include a second meeting each month to accomplish the Comprehensive Plan Update. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Hoffman: ...that's the other thing we need to address at some point...who wants to go onto ,.... the Tree Board. The Tree Board will turn into the Environmental Commission that would provide the Tree Board, the Recycling Committee...Swamp committee... Manders: At that fIrst meeting, are you going to have some dates in terms of time lines so for scheduling purposes? Meeting dates. Hoffman: Meeting dates are the fourth Tuesday. Schroers: I guess I have a question there. Do I give up my...give up this commission spot? Do they go kind of hand in hand? Hoffman: ...the position that the Tree Board is represented from the Park Commission... ADOPT 1994 PICNIC FEE SCHEDULE. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. Manders: What has been your experience in terms of groups that have signed up? Is it mostly residents or is it outside? Ruegemer: Surprisingly it's probably 60-65% are non-residents. The businesses coming in from Victoria, Chaska. ,.... 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 -' Lash: So what kind of people were complaining about Ruegemer: ...for family reunions. That type of thing. Birthday parties. Maybe some weddings. Andrews: Let's drop the fIxed number and try to emphasize it but not mandate it. Lash: Otherwise people are going to start lying anyway. Ruegemer: Well, if you drop it it's kind of a double edge sword. You're going to be losing revenue if you do that. H you drop that... Lash: Well what if it's a business? Ruegemer: Hit's a business located in Chanhassen, I give them the resident rate. Lash: What if we have a commercial rate, a business rate, resident and then non-resident and then we just have a resident rate and then that would just be a flat rate. Has anybody ever called that's not a resident and wants to have a private party here? Ruegemer: Oh sure. You bet, and they'd pay the non-resident fee. People are generally honest about that. ..""., Schroers: So the problem is, that you're saying that citizens get upset when they want to reserve it for a date and it's already taken by someone who doesn't live in the city? Lash: No. H they don't have 50% of their group, they have to pay more. What if it's just a resident who books it, they get a resident rate. H it's for their group. If it's a non-resident calling to book it for a non-resident group, then they don't get the resident rate. Hoffman: I think some of it that we talked about as well, that 50%, we need to get away from that...calling a resident to reserve it. I'm a Victoria person and I'd say I want that resident rate. I call my friend up, they reserve the thing for my party... Lash: You have a friend who lives in Chanhassen? Hoffman: A couple... Lash: But how do you ever know? 38 -' ".. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 Ruegemer: ...You know I'm not out there every weekend checking !D's. Hoffman: I live in the city. I pay taxes. I deserve to use that facility... Schroers: I mean that does seem reasonable. If you are going to have a family reunion, I mean chances are these days that your family isn't going to live in Chanhassen and you're going to have to pay an out of town rate, I don't think that's fair. Hoffman: Okay. Lash: So the person who books it. If they're a resident, they get a resident rate for the group. What we're doing is just dropping the 50% condition right? Andrews: For personal use. Other than business use. Ruegemer: Make that specific too. Lash: I would be more inclined to want to give a company that's a local company, I'd rather ,.... have a commercial rate and have it be for a business. A resident business and a non-resident business and stick it to the businesses and not the residents as much. Manders: What kind of dollars are we potentially talking between somebody booking a resident instead of being a non-resident? Andrews: $53.00. Manders: But I mean, I'm talking just dollars if somebody switched. Schroers: We haven't had the shelter going for an entire season either. Ruegemer: The shelter's been a money maker. I look in that, really the majority of the people renting that facility have been non-residents. We're looking at $185.00 a crack. Schroers: Yeah but you know, just to make it simple, a resident books it, they get a resident rate. A non-resident books it, they get a non-resident rate. A resident business books it, they get a resident commercial rate. A non-resident business books it, they get a non-resident rate. Andrews: I'll second that motion. Lash: We don't have a commercial rate though. Is that the same as the resident? A .;""" 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....." commercial rate the same as any other rate? Andrews: We've got a commercial rate and a resident rate. Lash: We don't now. We just have a flat rate for resident and non-resident. Ruegemer: We could draft some numbers and then come back in January. Schroers: Okay. And then as far as the rest of the fee structure is concerned, I move to accept the structure as it was set up in '93. Is there a second? Berg: Second. Schroers moved, Berg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to adopt the fee structure from 1993 for the 1994 Picnic Reservation Fees. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Hoffman: Just a clarification. The rates will stay the same. Just the titling is going to change. Lash: Unless we come up with a commercial rate... ...."" PROGRAM REPORTS: FEBRUARY FESTIVAL TEAM. Schroers: He's asking for volunteers. Who says yes? Roeser: I'll do something. Berg: I'll do something, sure. Hoffman: We've got them all but... Schroers: Todd, buzz us through these in a hurry would you? FEBRUARY FESTIVAL FIREWORKS CONTRACT. Hoffman: Coming back to you next week. 40 ...." '" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 TREE LIGHTING EVALUATION. Hoffman: Another...The tree is still alive. Berg: That District High School choir consisted of 3 people though. WINTER PROGRAM UPDATE. Hoffman: The winter program update is for your information. Any response to that? Lash: Super. Andrews: Great. Keep it up. PROPOSED REAL ESTATE PURCHASE AGREEMENT: DAVID STOCKDALE AND ANGA MCBRYDE STOCKDALE. 7210 GALPIN BOULEV ARD. EXCELSIOR. MN. ~ Hoffman: You have the Stockdale letter, the response in your hands. Andrews: In other words, it ain't over ill it's over. Hoffman: Yeah. All we're doing now is... CLOSING OF POWER HILL PARK SLIDING HILL. Hoffman: That one had a little memo to go along with it. If you didn't read it, I can explain it briefly. We seeded the hill and they have to put erosion control in there. So you've got all that ground opened up. Then we've got erosion control which is going to freeze into the ground. If people want to slide on it, that's a real hazard. So the city...A lot of people are upset about it. Chris Hones who was here this evening, in that area. Did not receive a call directly from him but I received a ton of phone calls. It's one of those unfortunate scenarios... Schroers: Is this just for the season? Hoffman: Yep. Next year we'll establish the seed and we'll be ready to go. Berg: I think what you did is right. ,... 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 14, 1993 ....." RETIREMENT OF LARRY SCHROERS FROM THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION-' YEARS OF SERVICE. RECIPIENT OF A CHANHASSEN MAPLE LEAF AWARD. Hoffman: Last night Larry Schroers, our Chairman for the past 3 years and a Park Commissioner since '87, received from Mayor Chmiel the Maple Leaf Award. He packed the house. It was standing room only. Schroers: Not for that part of the agenda. Hoffman: He received a nice plaque signed by all the members of the Council...Good standing member for the past 6 years, you get..Great job Larry. Appreciate all your work. Schroers: The plaque is real nice. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET: Todd Hoffman gave a brief presentation of the Administrative Packet Lash moved, Roeser seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. .....", Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim 42 --'