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PRC 1995 01 24 '" PARK AND RECREA nON COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JANUARY 24, 1995 Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Jane Meger, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders, Dave Huffman, and Fred Berg STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting <lated December 13, 1994 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTA nONS: .~ Chuck Rienstra: I'm Chuck Reinstra. I know a few of you. I represent Tonka United Soccer and I've explained at past meetings and to other people that we're in dire need of land and expansion of our program. We...directly from Chanhassen. What we have in mind for the city of Chanhassen, involving children, is an expansion at the Minnetonka Middle School. We've been endowed with a benefactor that has offered us a large sum of money on certain stipulations. And the stipulations are a matching grant. Talking to some of the people on the Board and stuff, I understand...money from the city of Chanhassen. Now being this is a public property, no individual ownership or anything, this is one of the concerns of our benefactor. That this is more of a public spirited, not for one individual group. So what I'd like to do is basically put it...that there's a large amount of money out there to put to active use and I'd like to find out what your stipulations are basically. What you want from us and what we want from you people. Andrews: Why don't you tell us more about what the plans are for. r-- , Chuck Rienstra: Preferably now, Minnetonka Middle School is used for soccer. The Minnetonka East School is used as a baseball facility. That's how the district has set up. We want to take and expand that. We want to basically add one, possibly two fields up there. We want to irrigate the property so the fields don't have to be rotated. Soccer is a fairly rough sport on the fields because we play it year round. As soon as the snow's gone, we're out trampling up on the grass out there and we run right to the middle of October. If we can irrigate the property up there, we can use it year round and won't have to rotate. Tonka United Soccer presently has about 1,500 children in the program. It's a program that we provide in the city...park and rec program traditionally has stayed away from the summer traveling soccer and instructional type soccer. We range in age from basically 5 years old in the instructional all the way up to 19 years old. We're a strictly voluntary organization. We . 1 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ...." have one paid employee, who is our Director of Coaches. Our monies are collected by fees from the children, i.e. the families and fund raisers, corporate sponsors and donations. That's basically it. Lash: What kind of matching funds are you looking for Chuck: Chuck Rienstra: I can offer $15,000.00. My benefactor is coming out with up to $15,000.00 of matching funds. Now at this time we don't believe it will take that money to do that. What he's saying is he'll go that much. If it's less to do it, then he'll pay the lesser amount but that's the maximum amount. '-.: :~..~ Andrews: ...some questions to get more information here for everybody. There was discussion that the irrigation project was going to be done, to look at cooperative efforts to reduce costs. I know the figures that I heard at the Board meeting, I was stunned at the costs that were, being that they were so low. So I know Tonka United, I guess I should state to the Board. I'm not on the Tonka United Board but I'm active in the group so I have a vested interest in this. But I think many of us are involved with youth activities but, again to say that they're looking to expand the field spaces and put irrigation in and I think the cost figure that I heard was less than $5,000.00 if I remember correctly. Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, for the basic grading and getting ready to drop sod. We were talking $4,400.00-$5,000.00 for the land ready. You're talking about another $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 for sod. Depending upon how we can work on a volunteer basis and what...irrigation system will be put in basically for soccer...to keep the money down. .....", Huffman: I apologize. I'm going to have to back. I don't know what we're talking about here. What are you asking for? I'm going to apologize for this. I'm not up to speed. I mean irrigation and other things . but what are. Chuck Rienstra: Okay, we're asking for some matching funds. It's come to our attention that Chanhassen's offered matching funds for public, specifically public property that's open to the public and what I'm saying, that's what we're asking for. And this is not, it's at the middle school which is in Chanhassen on TH 7 and TH 41. It's open to all kids. I get a lot of grief because we're Tonka United but we're not. Approximately a third of our kids live directly in Chanhassen. I live in Chanhassen. My daughter participates. On my block there's 6 kids In... Huffman: I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm just, I'm slow so, you had to call me to earth meeting so I'm just v~ry slow. 2 --'" ",..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Chuck Rienstra: But we have permission from the School District. There is a football field. The football field's going to be... Lash: If I do a quick tally as you were doing that, I come up with around $8,000.00. Are you looking for $4,000.00 from us and $4,000.00 from your benefactor? Chuck Rienstra: Well yeah, we're taking basics right here is what we're doing. We're just taking real basics. We have to put a catch net across one end. I haven't got bids on that. I have no idea what that runs or what they cost. The one end of the property drops off extremely sharp. We have... On the north ~!de of the property there's a road that runs parallel with the end of our field. We'd like a catch net on that end too. Not that it's a heavily traffic but for insurance purposes. They're just starting to come up with this idea that a catch net on that too. That would stop kids from running out and catching balls and stuff and it... Roeser: This reminds me. Didn't we about a year and a half ago, a year ago have some people come from the traveling volleyball thing and want some support from us. Basically something like this. Or at least schedule. """""" Lash: They wanted us to sponsor them... Roeser: Yeah, yeah. But not something that's involved with the Park and Rec Department necessarily. Chuck Rienstra: This is, I don't know how to explain this. It's a big undertaking and as a private sports group, and the way monies are so tight, we feel that if we can come up with some of it, we're having...and if we can do this and it's basically no burden on the school district and everybody knows, and I don't care if it's Chanhassen, Chaska, or Minnetonka or Victoria, schools have a problem right now with money. We're doing this. We're going to improve the school's field and improve it for the children and we're doing this basically without the school's money. The school's happy, the school's just overjoyed. We've given 1,500 hours this fall just to reseed, to aerate and put the, where they did not have the money to do this. We dropped them $1,500.00. They have to go 3 years before they can do that. Now they can do it twice because of the allotted money in the 3 year increment. We just happened to come in on top of it. This is the best we can basically do. Berg: Have you talked to Minnetonka? Chuck Rienstra: To who? ,f Berg: To the Park and Rec in Minnetonka. """""" 3 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ....." Chuck Rienstra: Right now the Park and Rec is in the proc~ss of buying Bennett Field on TH 101 and their priority is with that right now. If they buy Bennett, they have to include the drainage, etc. They have to dig trenches and stuff, a lift station and they plan to put two soccer fields in behind... We basically, we run 35 traveling teams which includes an adult league from Chanhassen and two Chanhassen...on our fields this past summer. Chanhassen- Chaska sponsored a Western Division Girls Playoff on our field...so it's not that we're not... We're open. We're doing everything we can to help each other. I have a real worry that I get a lot of feedback that is specifically for Tonka United. It's not for Chanhassen-Chaska. It's for Tonka United. . . Huffman: Would you come February the ~th and tell people how short of fields we are and what a great idea a bond referendum would be like? Chuck Rienstra: ...and I'll be there. / Andrews: He's been invited. Lash: I think this is something that would require a motion obviously. You're talking about in this year, correct? So which would require a budget amendment from us, which means serious consideration and before I would even be willing to enter into that kind of a thought process, I would want to see a more detailed proposal. ..." Chuck Rienstra: ...come out with exact figures and stuff. All of this is starting to fall in place within the last two days. I had my commitments to my part of the money last night at 5 minutes after 10:00, when my commitment came through. Before we were talking about $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 maybe. Now we're talking 15 on our part which would be a tremendous windfall for us. Lash: And this person will only commit the money to you if it's matched from some other? Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, that's basically it. He'll match funds up to $15,000.00. Manders: What's the chances of some of the other entities that are involved in Tonka Soccer to. be contributors? Chuck Rienstra: According to his wishes and stuff, he wants soccer. He's a fan of soccer. He's got children, grandchildren in the program. And his specific wishes are to improve it for soccer. 'f 4 ....." IfII"""- Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Manders: But I mean what I'm getting at is something beyond Chanhassen. Who else is involved in this usage of those facilities for soccer? Minnetonka obviously. Chuck Rienstra: Minnetonka. We have children in our program from Shorewood, Greenwood. As far away as Mound. We have kids coming all the way from Golden Valley that play in our division. We have children from Hopkins, Wayzata. Manders: I guess what I foresee is the statement that a third of the kids are from Chanhassen so it makes pretty easy sense to say, well we'll contribute a third. So you figure out the other two thirds. (-.: .!of.' Chuck Rienstra: I'm quoting figures off, I can show you teams that are made almost specifically of children from Chanhassen. Manders: And that would bo to your advantage. Chuck Rienstra: And I can show you teams that are specifically made of kids strictly from... so we encompass a large, large area. And we're getting to the point now where certain ,... municipalities are picking...which just we can't afford, we just can't do that... Berg: It would help me a lot in my decision process if I could have some exact numbers of kids and where they're from. Chuck Rienstra: I can do that. I can give you a complete listing of kids. But I don't want to get into, it's really hard to get into that border situation. We have a lot of animosity... We want to take instructional kids where you put 60% of them are from Chanhassen... Andrews: They both use the fields so. Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, instructional kids don't... We're not looking at the present. We're looking at the kids down the line where 5 years from now you see Chanhassen-Chaska ranked as a contender for the State Title in soccer. Some of those kids would come up in our program. Berg: Do you envision the day where you won't be able to include Chanhassen kids because Tonka gets too big? Chuck Rienstra: No. Our By-laws are written that basically it's first come, first serve. If we have a problem with late dgistration and stuff, it's the kids that are scheduled for the Minnetonka School District get priority. My children go to Minnetonka School... I live in If1"" 5 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 -' Carver County and...so it's, we talked about this at our last Board meeting. We don't want to get to that point where we have to exclude anybody. If we don't have a Division I or Division IT team, we can add someplace where everybody can play. We have not turned away anybody. That's why we've got people from Golden Valley coming to us to play soccer. We have not turned away anybody. We have people from St. Louis Park, Hopkins. It's open...because there's no place for them to play. Andrews: Maybe we've got to cut this one off. Roeser: But if you're the city soccer leagq~ and things for kids... -!.:. Andrews: However they aren't real open to people in the Minnetonka School District. Hoffman: ...past philosophy that the Commission has held, the Commission has had no problem investing in school, on school property. We've made significant investments in the Chan Elementary property. We're in a cooperative agreement with the park... This would be the other school campus... Prior to making joint contributions outside the youth athletic... Chuck Rienstra: The advantage we have here is the money is there. And I truly believe that we're going to lose something and Chanhassen's going to lose something if we don't invest in that. I mean whether it's a small amount of that or it's the whole thing. If we take advantage of that, I think Chanhassen, I think we can really do something with this. We're losing a great opportunity if we don't take advantage of it. Now whether it's for the school up there or for the school here, if somebody else comes with that money, you should do that. I mean we all know that times... ....." Lash: I would move that we move this forward to the next available agenda after Chuck has defined his proposal into a dollar figure for us. Andrews: That's one month. Does that give you time? Chuck Rienstra: Yes... Andrews: Okay, is there a second for that? Meger: Second. Lash moved, Meger seconded to put the Visitor Presentation reganling the Tonka United Soccer proposal to the next available agenda. All voted in favor and the motion canied. 6 ~ ,..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Andrews: Okay. Any other visitor presentations? ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS: A. ELECllON OF CHAIRPERSON AND VICE CHAIRPERSON. Manders: Discussion? Andrews: Discussion, please. Yeah. Huffman: Okay, I'll bite. I'm the new individual on this group. Fred, Jan, explain to me what we need to do at this moment, would you please. Lash: We need to entertain, volunteer a nomination type system. We're pretty informal here. I' Huffman: We're user friendly. Lash: We're user friendly Rules of Order. So as to people who are interested in taking on ,... the position such as Chairperson or Vice Chairperson and we go from there to nominations and then we take a vote. Huffman: And in the past have you asked people or is it just felt that the last person did such an outstanding job. Berg: Well we've asked the people who have been doing it, if they're interested in continuing in that position. Huffman: Okay. Again, I don't know. So Mr. Andrews? Andrews: I'm willing. If somebody else is dying to do it, I mean that's fine too. Lash: Anyone dying. Berg: Ms. Lash? Lash: I'm not dying to do it. I'm willing to do it. I'm not dying to do it. I think I said that last year and look at where I got. Berg: I move that we acce~t Jim Andrews as Chairperson and Jan Lash as Vice Chairperson for 1995. ,..... 7 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ..." Roeser: Second that. Berg moved, Roeser seconded to appoint .1m Andrews as Chairperson and .Tan Lash as Vice Chairperson for the Parle and Recreation Commission for 1995. All voted in favor and the motion camed. B. ADOPT RULES OF ORDER. Andrews: There is a note in this, on page 1 of the packet that we should, that the City Attorney recommended a change to Scott f~resmen's Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised, which is user friendly. What that means (have no idea. So is there a motion to accept that recommendation from the City Attorney? Huffman: I make a motion that we adopt the Rules of Order of Scott Foresmen's Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised, which is user friendly. Lash: Second. Andrews: Any discussion? Lash: Is this available and is it something we need to know or can we just continue in our old. --' Hoffman: Y ou'll have a desk copy for your reference. It's user friendly in that if you come across a question, it has a very nice index that the other one did not have. Huffman moved, Lash seconded that the Pam. and Recreation Commission adopt Scott Foresmen's Roberts Rules of Onler Newly Revised. All voted in favor and the motion camed. C. 1994 A TfENDANCE RECORD. Andrews: Item c is informational. Is there any comments on that? D. 1995 MEETING DATES AND TIME: Andrews: I think the only exception date is December 12th, and you've noted that already Todd. Any comments on the schedule? Is there a motion to approve the schedule? 'f Berg: So moved. 8 .....", ".... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Andrews: Is there a second? Roeser: Second. Berg moved, Roeser seconded to approve the 1995 Meeting Dates as presented. All voted in favor and the motion camed. Andrews: Item E is Schedule of Attendance at the City Council meetings. Huffman: 'Whoa. Can we go back just a Quick moment? There's a note down here. Meeting time, 7:30 p.m. You've got the Planning Commission moved to 7:00. I've noticed that sometimes in the evening it's easier to get out early. Do we want to consider starting early or is that something that's not worth talking about? Andrews: Would you like tO'make a motion on that and then we can discuss it? Lash: Why don't you discuss first? ,... Andrews: Might as well make it as a motion. That way you can either do something or not. Huffman: I make a motion that we start our meetings at 7:00 as opposed to 7:30. Roeser: Second. Andrews: Any discussion on that? Does 7:00 present a problem for a starting time for any person? Lash: Sometimes it's tough. Huffman: It is hectic. I mean I know that and I understand that but it also gets us out of here at a reasonable hour. Lash: I guess the only time that I, and I have no idea what my schedule's going to be like next year but if I have classes on Tuesday nights, to get here by 7:30, I come straight from St. Paul and I just barely make it. But I have no idea what my schedule will be for Tuesday so I'm not going to stand in everybody's way. Huffman: Can't we change that at some point? Can we come back and talk about that at some point? If it doesn't c6incide with your class. ;t"'" 9 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ..."" Lash: W ell I can always show up late too. Huffman: Well what I'm saying, can we change it back. If we decide to change it earlier, can we change it back? If you know your schedule next fall. Andrews: I agree with that. I guess I would have a question, would we be within our rights to publish an intended adjournment time at the same time? Manders: Well that would be my point, is that regardless of when we start, we're going to end up at 11 :00 or whatever it is and youi-et tired at that point and then you're done. Lash: Well I think they do publish..J think for the Planning Commission, what do they have for their adjournment time? Hoffman: The Planning Commission I believe is 10:30. The City Council is 11 :00. Lash: So we would need to have something in there saying. Andrews: 10:00. Roeser: Like 10:00. ...." Lash: You said they did start at 7:00? So they're going from 7:00 to 10:30. Huffman: I'd like to make a motion. Andrews: You want to amend your motion. Huffman: Okay, I'd like to amend my motion to start at 7:00 but also to have an ending time at 10:00 p.m. Andrews: Is that agreeable to the second there? Huffman: Time compression is a wonderful thing in the world of management today. Roeser: I'll second that. Andrews: Okay. Any discussion of that? .f Lash: I don't know. I think I have a problem with that. 10 --' JIIII1"'" Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Andrews: We can always extend our time with a motion at the meeting. Lash: We can? Okay. I do not want to have a whole room full of people here on some topic and say, sorry. It's 10:00. It's time to go home. We'll continue this to a month. Andrews: But that will give us the ability to move things along too. Huffman: Absolutely. Get to the point. We've got to go. Andrews: Any more discussion? '-..: ~~.... Huffman moved, Roeser seconded to amend the meeting times for the Park and Recreation Commission meetings to begin at 7:00 p.m. and end at 10:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the motion eanied. / Andrews: Okay, item 2. Meger: Move back up to number 1. Just in case, on the schedule of attendance at the City ".... Council. Andrews: Oh, pardon me. I'm sorry. Skipped by that. I'm sorry. Take a quick look at item l(e). Scheduled attendance. City Council. There are some dates that were assigned by Todd I think. Are any of those dates that any of us know we have a problem with? Meger: I will not be here on October 9th. Roeser: How do you know that already? Meger: It's one vacation that has been planned. Huffman: I'll be more than happy to trade with you if that helps. I've got the 25th. Hoffman: Of October? Huffman: September. Andrews: And February 13th, let's see. Okay. Manders: So the plan thed is that you notify us? ~ 11 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 -' Andrews: What we've done in the past is, just when a conflict comes up, call Todd and we'll get it worked out. Huffman: I won't be there for the January 23rd meeting. Well, how about if I just let you know tonight that I won't be there last night. lAND SUBDIVISION PROPOSAL: PRELIMINARY PlAT OF 37+ ACRFS OF PROPERTY ZONED RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY INTO 43 TO 53 LOTS WCA TED NORm OF KING ROAD AND WEST OF MINNEWASIITA PARKWAY. HARSTAD COMP ANIES.~<' Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Mr. Birch, if you'd like to come address the commission. John Birch: My name is John Birch. It gets pronounced a number of ways because it's got the h on the end. First of all I have to say that I'm from...and Associates. We are the company that has done preliminary plat. This is per Mr. Harstad's wants and wishes. Apparently he has done some marketing strategies and found out that the perceived park area that the city wants is some of the highest valued land because of the close proximity to the lake and they decided that that's what they would prefer to do is build single family residences in here and if the city would want more park, the idea would be to cut these lots off in this area here. Taking just 4 single family lots and then the 10 acres of park which would be back in this area. That's what Mr. Harstad has asked me to convey to you. He never showed up with his plan. Apparently he has talked to someone about it. I don't know if it was Todd or whoever it was at the city but he felt that the 10 acres of park in that area would be more equitable for him because of the costs involved in building streets that he would incur. In essence what would happen is, in this plan when the park is here, he would have to incur a lot of cost to build a road to this point in here with zero value. In other words, he gets no value back on it. All his costs are involved and he would have to offset all of this road cost with the exception of what the city picks up, with the rest of the lots, it becomes areal high premium on those lots. --' Andrews: Do you know what it costs per foot to build a roadway like that? John Birch: I can give you a rough idea. It's right around $250.00 a running foot. Andrews: And how many teet are we looking at along the proposed park along the lake? 12 ...", ~ Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 / John Birch: I'd have to guess. I don't remember exactly what that was. I think, it's probably about 1,800 to 2,000 feet I believe. Andrews: So that works out to be about, does anybody have a calculator with them here. Hoffman: $800.00 to $1,000.00. John Birch: So you have to get to this point over here which is zero value. So it's going to be pretty close to $1,000.00. But the streets, curb and gutter, storm sewers, sanitary sewer, the approximately cost that we use just for,..a rough estimate...is right around $250.00 a running foot.~"' Andrews: And does the property owner adjacent pick up part of that cost? John Birch: No. That's part,lof the problem. Kings Road has platted. What happens is...that all of the land that Kings Road is on this property. None of it is on this property. So not only does he build this or have to build this road but he's got no recourse to get money back from these people who now have a nice road against their property and can develop their ~ properties. Andrews: I would have to assume that there's more linear feet in a curved roadway than a straight roadway. John Birch: In this instance here? Is that what you're saying? Andrews: Yes. John Birch: Yes there is. But with this type of alignment, what happens is, now he can offset the cost of these higher value lots. He provides the roadway, gets the lots in here. If he builds this road with the park system here, he's got no way to offset the cost of that roadway at all. And it does get very expensive. Because that's an upfront cost. He also has to provide the bond of 150% of the total cost. And all of that becomes quite a burden. Lash: Can someone refresh my memory as to why we decided on that specific location on this parcel. I know there had been discussion of locating it in other areas and I can't recall right off. Andrews: Access was the main. .f ,... 13 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ..""" Lash: Okay, that's what I was thinking. Because of the park deficient nature of that area we wanted it to be more accessible to the parkway? Andrews: And we wanted it to be on the trail system too. I guess one of my frustrations here, some of the reasons I was asking the cost questions is, I count up approximately 8, maybe 1 0 lots that are affected by the change in plat. I have nothing to base my guesses on here other than to say that if those lots are worth $10,000.00 more a piece because they're closer to the lake, you know that's $80,000.00 potentially for the property, or for the developer here to perhaps increase his sale. But at the same time he's got to build some additional roadway and now he's sat on th~tproperty for another 6 months. He's hired more architects. More planners. More engineers: More attorneys to look at the property. It's very frustrating for me as a part of our Park Board that this is an area, as a Park Board, we've been looking for a quality piece of property for a number of years with very few opportunities. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the Harstad property came along. Depending on who's side of the fence you're on I think here. But we look at the location here as being one of, there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it from our standpoint and I guess my opinion is to locate the property in a distant corner of the parcel makes it inaccessible and not meeting our needs and that's why, in both cases when this project came before us, we were quite strong in our recommendation that that's why we wanted it located where it was. And when it left here last year I think, young Mr. Harstad, I think it was. ......,I John Birch: Paul. Andrews: Paul Harstad. There's no way that he misunderstood our intentions on that night because he came in here and he was I think a little shocked at the reception that he received because I think he figured we were going to go along with what he thought was a plat similar to this and there was no way. So I guess I'm going to have to speak personally that I'm disappointed to see this back again. I understand what you're talking about as far as the costs here. I mean there is a trade off here and I would think through the, there is a fairness issue here that I think is dealt with through prior court cases I would imagine. If a property owner is deprived of his, or injured by action of another, he has a right to recover that injury through fair treatment or through the legal recourse. So I guess I would argue that ultimately in the ideal world this should work out to be fair, and I'm hoping that it will. For that reason I'm going to recommend that we follow the recommendation. That's my personal opinion so. John Birch: The only thing I would say is, first of all he's got 12 lots, not 8 lots that he can...from. Again, if there was a way to realign the road to get down, or when the costs were to be, we've looked at it a touple three different ways. Our company's, I haven't personally looked at it over the period of time. I've only been working on it for about the last 3 to 4 14 -' JIll'" Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 months but we've got a number of sketches in our office trying to come up with a reasonable solution and because of the way the King's Road was originally aligned, it went down on this property owner's property. All of it. None of it was split on the line the way it normally is and so it does, it throws all the burden onto this property. Hoffman: That piece of information is new information to me. I've had a number of conversations with our engineers and our planners over some possibilities with the funding of that roadway. It was certainly represented, due to past experience to the property owners on the south side of Kings Road that it would be difficult, it may be difficult to convince the City Council to assess those people but the,y- still benefit from it so, it's...to assume that they could be assessed on the south side of Kings Road as well. So this is a new piece of information presented...investigate on behalf of the commission. Andrews: I agree with what you're saying Todd but yet I don't feel that's within our area of concern. I mean we'd like to.- see it fairly divided, because it should be. It should be ideally but. Hoffman: You're correct. That will be for the City Council. "..... Andrews: That's for them to decide. And I think we have to look at the pure issue which is where should a park be. How does it best serve our city. Yes, it may create an adverse impact. I would have to admit you're not the first representative of a developer here that's come in here and said I'd like you to build your park somewhere else. I would say that happens virtually every time. For some reason, I don't know if it's coincidence but usually they prefer to have the park on the least valuable property. Usually on the most isolated comer, on the lowest quality land and I think I've figured out why. But in this situation we feel that as a Park Board, and you were here for part of our study here earlier of our parkland, that we have a very scarce resource to work with here that we need to protect. I mean 20-30 years from now I don't want to have to look at kids or grandkids and say geez, you know. There almost was a nice park here. But we decided it really wasn't that big of a deal and we decided we'd build it back in the woods there but, you know we could go back there but it's kind of hard to find it or it doesn't really hook up to anything quite the right way. I can't do that. Lash: You can walk to it but you can walk an extra mile. Andrews: Y eah. You can walk to it but once you're there, you can't see the lake anymore. You know the neighbors wish they had something closer to the lake but geez, you know the developer wanted to put hobses there. Boy that's just, to me this is an issue, there's a right way and a wrong way and in spite of the fact that this is going to result in less dollars for the I""" 15 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ....." developer in his pocket, as we've discussed many times here, the developer isn't going to live in the development. Most likely. And he'll be on his way to some other city to put in a development using the same arguments again and we're left ~th a property that wasn't done the best way it could have been done. So that's a personal opinion. Berg: I couldn't say it as well as you but the issues for me are, we are so incredibly deficient in that area and the access of the spot we've already decided upon. Or that we recommended . and I strongly support your point of view. Roeser: So do I. I agree. I think that's tl),e best spot for that park. ,~:.f..... Huffman: Do you want to make a motion? Roeser: I have no reason to change my mind and move it back up into there. I can think of no reason why we would want to do that. John Birch: Are there any other questions I can answer? Thank you. Andrews: We need to make a, or are we staying on our prior motion or do we need to make one here? ...,., Hoffman: It's a new application. Andrews: A new application would require a motion then. Huffman: I'd like to move that, the correct verbiage being that we're under the new user friendly rules, do I have to read the entire park and trail again? Do I have to read the whole thing? I'd like to reference that, make a motion that for the park, the plat should include a 10 acre park at the northwest intersection of Kings Road and Minnewashta Parkway. The acquisition of the park to be accomplished through park dedication and purchase of 1.72+ acres and purchase of 7.4 acres. This acquisition shall be conditioned of final plat approval. A purchase agreement shall be negotiated by the City contingent upon City Council approval. Full park fee credit shall be granted as part of these negotiations and acceptance of full trail dedication fees in force upon building permit application is recommended. Current trail fees are $300.00 per single family residential unit. Andrews: I've got one clarification I'd like to add if I could. And that would be to the reference to the northwest corner of Kings Road be where the road currently lies. Not as where it's shown on this pl~t. 16 -' ,..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Meger: Second. Andrews: Any further discussion? Huffman moved, Meger seconded that the Parl< and Recreation Commission recommend approval of the Oaks at Minnewashta with the following conditions of approval in reganl to parl<s and trails: Park (.~' The plat shall include a 10j: acre park at th~ northwest intersection of where Kings Road currently is located and Minnewashta Parkway. The acquisition of the park to be accomplished through park dedication (1.72j: acres) and purchase (7.48j: acres). This acquisition shall be a condition of final plat approval. A purchase agreement shall be negotiated by the city contingent upon City Council approval. Full park fee credit shall be granted as a part of these negotiations. Trail ,..... Acceptance of full trail dedication fees in force upon building permit application is recommended. Current trail fees are $300.00 per single family residential unit. All voted in favor and the motion camed unanimously. SELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT 112 COMMUNITY EDUCA nON ADVISORY COUNCIL. Hoffman: This is an issue that just won't go away. rlllet you take it from there. Huffman: No. Lash: You were our second choice. Actually you were our first choice but you weren't here so we didn't nominate you. Huffman: Bless you. Andrews: Well, are there are any volunteers here? Can we volunteer paid staff people? Are we allowed to do that? ,~ Berg: What happens if we don't have somebody? JII"" 17 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 .....",. Huffman: I cannot commit the time. Berg: How vital is membership in your opinion? Hoffman: We have a representative to the City Council sits on the Minnetonka Advisory Board. Mark Senn. They've made the invitation as a gesture to go ahead and communicate... the partnerships in my opinion would be a minor slap in the face. Berg: I'll do it. If that's okay. Lash: I nominate Fred. ,.~;~, Andrews: Second. Lash moved, Andrews seconded to appoint Fred Berg as a Representative to the District 112 Community Education Advisory Council. All voted in favor and the motion camed. Huffman: Let me ask you this however. How would they feel....now that Fred's going to do it all the time. if he can't make it. if somebody else were to help him sit in for it? ..."" Hoffman: Sure. Lash: So Fred I want to know now. will this fit seem right to you? Berg: The fit? Lash: Well Chris didn't have the proper fit. Berg: Oh. I think I can probably fit. lAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: A 3.000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. BOSTON CHICKEN TO BE LOCATED ON LOT 2. BLOCK 1. CHANHASSEN RETAIL 3RD ADDmON. TIlE PROPERlY IS ZONED PUD AND LOCATED IN TIlE SOUlHEAST CORNER OF mE INTERSECTION OF WEST 78m STREET AND POWERS BOULEVARD. NORmSTAR RESTAURANTS. INe. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Lash: This is a sit down rdstaurant? 18 --' I"'" Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Roeser: It's a take out too, the way it looks. Berg: It's sort of both. Hoffman: It's fast food. Andrews: I'll move that we accept staff recommendation. Lash: Second. (." Andrews moved, Lash seconded that the pihK and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council that full pam and trail fees be collected per city ordinance in lieu of land dedication and/or trail construction for Boston Chicken. All voted in favor, except Huffman who opposed, and the motion canied with a vote of 6 to 1. I' Huffman: I keep hearing about we should have this great downtown area and we should amphitheaters and we should have all these things. It's too little. It's too late and we have a fast food franchise you know growing on our posteriors and I think it's offensive to the city JIll"'" plan. We had talked, again growing through the community and it's like garbage from the highway. So no. Meger: I would think...for the City Council to hear comments. Huffman: It doesn't, I'll use my cute line here. It really doesn't matter what the City Council thinks we feel anyway from our last recommendation. The way that was handled either so. Andrews: Noted. LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: REZONING 20.11 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED RR. RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RSF. RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 20.11 ACRES INTO 20 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS JUST WEST OF WILLOWRIDGE SUBDIVISION. TED COEY PROPERTY. MASON HOMES. POINT LAKE LUCY. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Roeser: I went out there yesterday. It sure would make a nice passive park. That's beautiful land. ! .,.... 19 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 -' Andrews: Is the applicant here? Are you? Do you have anything to add to the staff presentation? Randy Travalia: I'm Randy Travalia. I'm President of Mason Homes. I really have nothing to add to the staff report but I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have... Andrews: Thank you. Lash: Just because I happen to live close to this. Are you looking at similar type homes to the Lundgren Homes that are, price range?:, c,!...'.' Randy Travalia: We'd anticipate them to be just slightly higher. The Willow Ridge neighborhood is in the $300-400 range and we would expect that we would have $400 to maybe $800. / Huffman: You build beautiful homes. They are beautiful. Randy Travalia: Thank you. Andrews: I have no questions about this. Can we have a motion please? ....." Lash: I wish we lived in a world where we could buy it but you know. Berg: I would accept staffs recommendation. Andrews: Is there a second to that? Manders: Second. Berg moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreaoon Commission recommend that the Dty Council approve that full park and trail fees be paid per city onlinance in lieu of any land dedicaoon and/or trail constmcoon for Point Lake lAIcy. All voted in favor and the mooon canied. Andrews: I guess I had one question on the plat, is how do you get access to Lot 12? Randy Travalia: There's a private driveway that services both 11 and 12. Andrews: Oh, okay. It's ri6t important. 20 ......" ,.... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Randy Travalia: There will be a shared driveway that will come here and service the home sitting here and here...We met with the engineering staff today and we're... Manders: How big are the lots? Randy Travalia: There's 20 of them on 18 acres so they average... PROGRAM REPORTS: A. FEBRUARY FESTIVAL. ~> Ruegemer: Thank you Chairman Andrews. As everybody knows, February Festival is quickly approaching us. Here's a quick overview of the scheduled events. That's basically how everything will be laid out as they are now. We had a February Festival team meeting yesterday and we did get a few people here so we conquered a few issues yesterday morning. So those are very helpful to have. One issue that we're hopefully, an obstacle that will be overcome now is working out the fishing contest. It looks like the Chamber is going to be putting, they're sponsoring that fishing contest so we can hold that again this year so it looks " like we can iron out those details. Hopefully tomorrow we'll get that application into the Minnesota Gambling Commission. Hopefully by tomorrow afternoon. That...aggressive but hopefully the City Council should have...a turn around period on that so we need, this is vital that this is done quickly and we can give the rest of the publication and printing accomplished in order to get that information out this week so we're looking to keep...as soon as we can. It's been an experience going through this fishing contest. Hopefully it's something that we've certainly learned, or that I've learned a lot over this whole ordeal so I hope that we can get that accomplished in future years so. It looks like this year, knock on wood, it looks like 95% sure that we'll have this problem solved so. Other than that, I'm sure a lot of you have seen around town the 4 x 8 sheets of plywood. February Festival signs out. And also the banner down on West 78th Street in front of St. Hubert's. We're getting into advertising that way and also the Victoria Gazette is going to be coming out in February with a half page ad. And also the next, this coming...or tomorrow in the Sun Sailor...Villager. Additional advertising trying to get the word out so people are going to remember the date. So we're just continuing to work on that on a daily basis and trying to get a lot of the wrinkles ironed out at this point. Also, I do have the volunteer list with me tonight so if, I do have everybody listed for the prize board again so if there's anybody that can't make it. Lash: Can you believe it? I have one wedding a year, and it's that day. I cannot believe it. Ruegemer: No kidding. ,.{ ,..... 21 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ..",;' Lash: No kidding. Ruegemer: Did you decline? Lash: No. Roeser: Did you say you've got us all down for the prize board, is that it? Is that what you said? Ruegemer: Yeah. f'..: _~;J.' Andrews: Is there admission to this? Ruegemer: Is there what? ~ Andrews: Admission charge for this. Ruegemer: Admission? For the fishing contest? Andrews: For the event. ~ Ruegemer: No. The majority of the funding, 90% of the events are free. The only think you need to pay for is the fishing contest. Andrews: Are there hats or t-shirts? Ruegemer: Yes...Dave will be emceeing our fishing contest since he has the gift of gab so. Lash: He can do it without a mic. Andrews: There will be no argument about who wins then. Berg: So there are going to be large mouth bass then... Huffman: ...as long as Fred and I aren't on the ice at the same time. Andrews: Let's move on here. Berg: What time Jerry? F~r us. 22 --' "..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Ruegemer: I have you guys down from 1:30 to 3:15. The contest starts at 3:00 so we need some prep time in there, and that can be adjusted. We need two shifts. 1:30 to 3:15 and 3: 15 to around 5:00. Lemme: And we did take your recommendation to the sweatshirt and those are being printed. We'll have two options. A black sweatshirt, non-hooded and then a gray sweatshirt with a hood... Meger: What were the two shifts again? 1 :30 to. " Ruegemer: 1:30 to 3:15 and 3:15 to 5:00.""' Andrews: He's wondering if there are barley beverages going to be available. Huffman: I'm a lot funnier. ' Ruegemer: A shot of gasoline. ~ Lash: There was not last year, was there? That was something that. We had chili. You could buy chili. And hot chocolate. Ruegemer: We will not have beer down there, nor will the Lion's. The Lion's will be doing the food sales. Selling chili, hot dogs, candy bars. Lash: Hot chocolate. Ruegemer: In fact...Colonial Church is going to be donating all of that and volunteering that...coffee cruiser again so it gives us free advertising on 'ceo too. Huffman: Nobody's listening on 'CCO though. Actually Fred's the only listener I think they've got coming back. Ruegemer: So, if there's other volunteer opportunities as well, if somebody else wants to bring out an ice auger or something. Meger: I was going to say, I'll take the early shift from 1:30 to 3:15. Manders: What is this prize board going to consist of? Something like last year's? 'f ,.... 23 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 """"" Ruegemer: Yeah...We're not going to be giving out specific prizes. We're going to have more of a. Hoffman: Grab bag. Ruegemer: Yeah. It will be separated by, you'll have a prize where you get a $10.00 prize, $5.00 prize...and you're not going to be digging through the wishing well either to look for a prize so...Other than that we're really just... Andrews: I think we need a Lake Susan s2ftball tournament for this thing next year. On the .~<i.' Ice. Huffman: Broomball game? Andrews: Softball game. Let's move on. Does that wrap that one up Jerry? Ruegemer: Yes. Volunteer parking passes will be included... B. TEEN DANCE. Ruegemer: The teen dance was, was that last Friday? No, Friday the 13th. That was Friday the 13th. We had approximately 150 kids there for that night and that was just 7th and 8th graders alone. I think our group, especially Chaska Park and Rec and Community Education I think were really, really pleased with the Park and Rec Commission's, I lost the word here. For their. ....,." Lash: Wisdom? Ruegemer: Wisdom. Forethought. Foresight. Just separating those two grades. We had, as you know, from the 6th graders we had probably in excess of 200-250 kids at the last dance in October and this one we were roughly 150, which was down a little bit from what we had thought but again in trying to do some research and that, possibly there was a lot more 6th graders at the last dances. where we had them together than what we had realized. So that's, we were fine with that and we recouped our costs within $11.00 so each city lost, or each entity lost $11.00 on this whole deal so after we paid the DJ and the concessions and everything else, so really for an opportunity to serve 150 kids on a Friday night, I think that's well worth the investment. So yeah, that was the best thing to do was split the age groups and we'll continue to do that. .f 24 ...." ""..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Lash: Just for thought, for the future in that. You know this particular year there's only Chaska 6th graders at the Middle School. The other 6th graders are here and at Jonathan and allover and that may be the case next year. I don't know that any of that has been definitely figured out but you may want to be thinking for next year. Say there's no 6th grade at the middle school next year, do you even want to think about that or scrap the whole idea or is it a time for them to come together and mingle. Ruegemer: Yeah, there was definitely... Lash: But just because they don't go to th~-same school together, they may be more reluctant to go to something like that. There will be'a lot of kids they won't know. Ruegemer: So yeah, it worked out good. We're going to continue to modify... SENIOR VOLUNTEER APFRECIA nON BREAKFAST AND DADDY DAUGHTER DATE NIGHT. Lemme: Actually this is just an informational issue...Senior Center we have volunteer "".... appreciation breakfast and you can see my wonderful picture in the paper. But they really appreciated it and us employees...and another informational item is we've got our Daddy Daughter Date Night coming up...just a week ago that I had all these people all of a sudden calling on the Daddy Daughter Date Night and I've had to turn away now so I'll be real excited to have it...I'm hoping to do a Daddy Daughter Ball...dance and have supper and just have a really exciting night. Andrews: We did something like this with the Girl Scouts. The young Scouts. Lash: Daisy's? Andrews: Whatever, Daisy's. They got a little band and it was a daddy daughter dance. Boy the kids just go nuts. They love it and it's a lot of fun. Lemme:' Last year we did line dancing and the year before we had a caricature and we decided to go back to that...every child having a caricature of them and their dad together. Play games. Andrews: Good stuff. f h ' .,~ Ho fman: T en we re mIssmg a mommy son. AfIII'" 25 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 --' Manders: That's what I was thinking. Where's that come in? Lash: ...age level. If you think after age 8, that interest just totally fades out. I think a lot of time for a teenage fathers, it's nice to make that connection. Huffman: You see that a lot of that in some of the schools now where they will have the father, especially in the parochial schools, there's a lot of those coming back. I mean they're really making a 10th, 11 th, 12th grade girls and fathers coming back. Those are huge now. Lash: What do you think Fred? You have::2 daughters. ,1:.!. Berg: Yeah, my older daughter would love it and my younger daughter, I couldn't pay her enough money to go with me. So I think it depends a lot on the kid. Lash: But it doesn't have anything to do with the age. Berg: No, it doesn't have anything to do with the age. I'd like to see it extended beyond a little bit I think, yeah. Lemme:. It'd be something that...to age level because even with a 14 year old, you've really got a big age span there and the activities...but the recreation center we'll...do some programmmg.. . --' COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTA nONS: Andrews: Are there any? Berg: I've got one thing, and I guess it makes it Park and Rec in what we've tried to do with teenagers and tried to provide some opportunities. I don't know if anyone else was fortunate, or unfortunate enough to get the mailings from Public Safety about a month or so ago about crime alert and concerns in the neighborhood, etc. And what upset me was, one of the last parts of it dealt with things to watch for in your neighborhood. One of them was loud crashing sounds, which was okay. And I forget what a couple of the other ones were but the last one dealt, and I'm paraphrasing said, be careful or be aware of adolescents casually walking through your neighborhood. In my profession that really upset me, and I turned it over to a lot of my kids and they, I'm afraid whoever the lady was who was responsible for the brochure got an awful lot of calls in the next 36 hours. I think that's an intolerable thing to say. What if that comment were, be aware of African Americans casually walking through your neighborhood? Thenls no way in the world we would tolerate that. I just want to be on 26 ..."", ,...... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 record as saying that I do think it's totally intolerable and I hope that nothing like that is ever done again. I think it's just abominable. It's shameful, I think. Andrews: It's a slight, if they're being good, then they must be doing something bad. Berg: Exactly. My 15 year old daughter can no longer go out and walk her dog without being suspect of breaking into somebody's car or home. One of the answers when they called was, well we just caught somebody, a 14 year old breaking into a car the last weekend. Lash: That's not casually walking through,o.a neighborhood. -~~...... Berg: Well my point is, the point is, you probably also in the last month or so have caught an adult doing the same thing. I don't see that there's any concern being raised about that. There's no Native Americans mentioned. There's no African Americans. There's no Hispanics. Why all of a sudden are we entertaining, or suggesting that this group of people is now suspect. I think that's totally, as I said, totally inappropriate. Andrews: Agreed. ..",.... Lash: I agree. Andrews: I had a couple of commission member items here. One is that last weekend I did go up to North Lotus Lake and go skating up there with the warming house and boy is that ever nice, and there were a few people there and they love it. It just is really nice so that's really been very nice. Appreciate that. And geez, I forgot what the second one was already, but I think people are looking forward to seeing the next stage of the North Lotus and I think we should keep moving ahead with that program. Have you had similar comments? Positive comments on the warming house up there? Ruegemer: Yeah, I've heard from room attendants that people, residents have been really commenting that, how much you know, it's really the North Lotus really isn't that busy of a park really for people using it. As far as people coming into the warming house but a lot of people have been commenting, they're really looking forward to next year with the hockey rinks and the hockey boards get up and the lights and that's going to draw I think a ton more people. Skating after dark. So there have been a lot of comments in that manner. Andrews: There would be a couple comments I'd make about the warming house itself. One would be that, I don't know who installed the step, the stairway right outside the door. If that's city property or if it'J provided by the people that we've rented the warming hut from but it's not quite wide enough so when the door swings open, it sticks. Then you've got to "'. 27 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ...." kind of yank it back. The other thing would be as you walk down the steps with your skates on, the surface right at the bottom of the steps is nearly fatal as far as it being at a pitch and covered with ice and not level. And so you almost fall down instantaneously and hit the stairway and I'm a fairly proficient skater and it wasn't the greatest set-up as far as the exiting. What there should be, to be honest, would be a ramp. It should be a ramp, not a stairway for skates on. I mean it's very precarious to go up and down stairways with skates on so that's it. Ruegemer: Just to kind of correct the problem in the near future, would a piece of plywood down on the bottom of that help? e. ,~..!.'" Andrews: Yes. Yeah, that would be great. So you at least have something where you don't slip as soon as you step off the stairway, which would be nice. Again, you don't want to go on ice with skates. Any other presentations? / Huffman: Only one comment. The only thing I have just to base on is obviously the headline in the Chanhassen paper last week. The City Council voting down the recommendation that the Park and Rec Board sent forward and I had my flippant comment earlier. I actually read that and I was very upset. I felt that we spent some fruitful time, discussion, thoughts. I mean it'~ obviously a topic that has come up before this commission many other times and it sounded like it was, again I can only go by the paper but it sounded like it was disposed of in a pretty senseless manner. There were some interesting thoughts and some insightful comments from one or two people but I thought it was disposed of in a very tacky, poor way and I honestly felt after reading that, that I had wasted a lot of personal time on an issue that we've laughed about for a long time but really put some discussion in. And I, I get frustrated in the sense that I'm trying to help. Trying to do something but when the City Council stands there and just dumps it like that, I mean tell us what you want us to do. We'll rubber stamp it and go forward. But I was pretty upset by that and the reason I was upset, because now I look at coming before them with an issue that is going to raise millions of dollars of issues trying to put before, and I think we're going to get nickel and dimed as opposed to taking a serious look at it. And before I really start stepping into this process of spending hours and hours, and we've already spent emotional time commitment, to this issue, I want to know if the City Council is actually serious about things that we are serious about. It was very frustrating for me. """'" Manders: I attended that same meeting and my observations would be very similar to your comments. That a couple of people are pretty adamant and agree with our position, but how it was disposed of was not, the method was simply stated that it hadn't come before the Council quick enough to ni~et their budget guidelines so. 28 ...." ""'" Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Lash: I want to, not that I necessarily agree with their findings but I, and maybe it's because I've been here long enough that I know that everything is not going to always be approved by the City Council. And I will admit that in the past I've had those frustrations on different issues that were not followed up on our recommendation and I've learned to deal with that frustration I guess. In this particular issue, after reading the article, I thought that they had some good comments and I thought that they were, like you said, some thoughtful comments from different Council members. And it did make some sense to me that we didn't stop to consider the fact that this budget has already been set and what we were doing was taking money out of that budget. We need to make sure and give careful thought to the timing of some of these things and in the future, if thi-s is going to be a yearly item that needs to be -~<.'" open for discussion, we need to do it earlie"r so it can go to the City Council before their yearly budget has been set and our budget has been set. So I can see their, they have to look at the bigger picture and I always try to remember that. We have a smaller piece to study. They have to answer to many people. They're elected. We're not. And in the time where people are being very conservative with their tax money and their finances, I think that they were trying to demonstrate fiscal responsibility to the voters by doing that. We don't necessarily all agree with that but I think I have some understanding of where they're coming from reading the article. So I didn't have the same reaction of instantaneous frustration. I was ",..... surprised. I was very surprised but after reading it I did have some basis of understanding I guess with it. Maybe we want to move this discussion so that if this is the direction we want it to be, we have it timed next year so that this is, we have to take this as a learning expenence. Andrews: I was disappointed by the decision. For them to say that it wasn't part of the budget, and use that as a reason, is a bunch of hooey. Because if they needed to buy a $50,000.00 piece of equipment, and they had to buy it, they'd find the money. So it was just something that I think the timing wasn't right. It was the first time we've done this so I think maybe it caught them a little by surprise and I think we just need to come back with a little better job of the reasons why we think so and. Lash: And they be getting a mixed message. We meet with them one night and we say we don't have the money. We don't have any money. We can't do this. We don't have the money and then we send them a motion, the next one that says gee, we're going to eliminate our fee that generates, even though it's not a lot of money, it is some money. So there could have been a mixed message. Manders: Taking that one step further I mean, you look at the discussion prior to that issue was that treed lot in the development. Heritage development that they supported that and that was good to see and some 'bf the comments and discussion revolving around that issue was, to me that was the most important issue. This issue is okay, we have to deal with that ,... 29 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ...., another year. We'll come back and we can deal with that and that to me is very secondary. I accept that we need to understand the position of the Council in terms of our efforts on a lot of things but to me it's a secondary issue. Preservation, things that are going to impact things down the road are much more important to me. Lash: We will not. always be listened to so. Huffman: Well I understand. Very eloquently stated. It's still very frustrating. Lash: I know. ,~:~, Andrews: Let's move on to Administrative Presentations. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: / A. PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TOWN MEETING. Todd Hoffman gave the staff presentation on this item and then asked the commission if they would like to have the large park map displayed. Andrews: I think there's a benefit. ...,., Roeser: I guess if there's a place for it. Hoffman: If we have the room, we'll bring it over. Andrews: I guess I perhaps want you to add to it, you know you've got the white cut out showing the developed land. Maybe you want to put some green paper over the current parkland so we can readily identify that. Hoffman: We'll refine that. Lash: And you do that in a reduced version too so if a person wants to pick one up and take it with them, then they can show it to everyone they know. That would be helpful. Andrews: To me the map has been one of the most effective tools we've had. Todd Hoffman continued his staff report at this point .f Andrews: So you need to assign topics and assign spokespeople. 30 -"" ,..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Hoffman: That would do it. Lash: May I ask two questions here? Actually it's one question but it involves two different exhibits. And I'm not meaning to seem nit picky about this but I want to make sure we have our ducks all in a row. We have out exhibits for the Bandimere Park concept and the MinnewashtalKings Road concept. Are those two concepts that we feel comfortable enough where they're at right now to put those out for public display? I mean this Kings Road thing, we just had that again tonight. We're recommending that but. Hoffman: The Kings Road concept, if yo~,.!ecall, is pretty nebulous. It has some play area. It's a public document which has been approved by the Park and Recreation Commission. Lash: But we haven't even acquired the property yet. Huffman: But we haven't acquired Bluff Creek charette either. Lash: No, I know it. ifili""" Huffman: I mean this is your wish list. This is what we'd like to see. This is what's out there that we are going to lose. If we don't have it, I mean it's potentially there but we could lose every one of these things. Andrews: What you need to show is current Bandimere Park concept development plan. Then for MinnewashtalKings Road, it would be proposed Minnewashta Park. Lash: Yeah. Roeser: Yeah, this is what we're doing. I think you've got to do that. Lash: Okay. I just don't want people to come away and then if say the Kings Road thing, who knows. What if the guy pulls out totally and...then they're going to come back and say, geez. Andrews: Yeah, we have to be clear on what's real and what's paper. Lash: And even Bandimere. I know we've had a plan for years and years and years but we haven't even looked at it for years. 'f Andrews: Yeah, years and years. It's been a long time. ,.... 31 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 """"'" Lash: So I see that proposed leaving us always an exit. That we're opening. Andrews: I will not be here that night. So if there's others that wish to volunteer. Huffman: I was informed today at 3:00, I'll be on a plane at 11:30 on the 5th to Chicago and I won't be coming home until the 11 tho Lash: I'll be there. I'm willing to do anything. Andrews: Okay, could you be a spokespe~n. ~.." Lash: Sure. I can talk from my gut. Andrews: Another person to volunteer to speak on a broad range of subjects. Fred, you're. / Berg: W ell I'd like to volunteer Jim because he's done such a, every meeting we've had he's done such an eloquent job of talking about preservation. Andrews: I think that's a good idea. Berg: If you're willing to. I'm really not trying to get even or anything. But you really have done a great job of explaining our position on that. I think. ...",I Andrews: He didn't decline so. Manders: I guess if you feel the same way I would be willing. Andrews: That's all it takes. Lash: You're blushing Jim. Andrews: As far as the topics, you still need, it looks like we're going to have to have some people take more than one. Unless you and Jerry could take... Hoffman: As far as the exhibit? Andrews: Yeah. Hoffman: No. We would'1ike the commission to be there. 32 --' ,... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Lash: Are there some that are natural... Hoffman: 10. 10 divided by 5. Andrews: Like the park trail map and the overhead map are kind of similar. Or you have like aerial photos and you've got some that are very similar there. Lash: For some reason I see a natural connection with Ron and the history piece. Roeser: Oh sure. (.~' ~...'.' Lash: Well your name is on. Roeser: I agree. My name is. on it, sure. I'll agree with that. That's no problem. / Lash: Was there a definition? I don't know, I'm trying to figure another one to hook him with here. Would the referendum definition be a good one with that or would that go better with the tax implication? ,..... Hoffman: Yeah, teaming those two up is just a bummer of a display. Splitting that would not be bad. If we put the referendum definition with that history, that would be good. Lash: And Dave, you're not going to be here. Huffman: I tried to change it 3 times. I got shot down 3 times. Lash: So would a natural connection be Bandimere and Minnewashta, since they're both proposed. I'd do that unless there's somebody else who really is burning to take those. Andrews: Bluff Creek. Dave, we sure wish you could be there. Huffman: I'll tell you what, that's a great thing to talk about too. That is such a neat concept and you can build. Hoffman: We have that on aerial photos too. Huffman: Oh. That's just a neat, I mean you should just somehow, and they kept talking about that going from the Minnewashta to the Minnesota. You need to attach them again. It's an emotional concept of the spacial relationship in the city. Where it runs and where it flows. ,.... 33 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 ....." Lash: So how about Bluff Creek and aerial photos? Roeser: Yeah, they would go together. Lash: Go together. Anyone? Manders: Then you're thinking about the top two? Park trails and lake atlas? Hoffman: Yeah. And the... . . Berg: I'll do the tax chart and the large m~p. Manders: I will do the park trails and the lake atlas. Hoffman: Okay, Jane. I' Roeser: What does that leave for Jane. Andrews: Jane got volunteered for. ....." Hoffman: Bluff Creek design and aerial photos. Lash: Now, is there something that you're going to give us so we know something about it... Hoffman: Information sheet. And then as well I will be calling Jan to go ahead and take the meeting.. . Lash: So if it falls flat, is it going to be our fault? Huffman: You're on your own. Andrews: ...does that close item 8(a) then? Huffman: If this thing moves forward, if our bond referendum moves forward, I did some investigation. Our company, one arm is a thing called Life Touch Video Creations. They have Ralph John Fritz is involved in that. One of the services they provide is they go out and they will do all the way from yearbook, video yearbooks, who we've also been contracted by several cities. Princeton, ~Fbridge, a couple others and created a video about their own town. History. Been requested by realtors. School districts. People. It's a $6,500.00 charge to lay it out first but they will bring and they will give to you then anywhere from a 15 34 ....." ",..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 minute to a 30 minute video with voice over, completely done, as good as anybody at any TV station here in town. And if it ever reaches the point where...you can declare whether those are good or bad in your own initiative. That's why I threw that caveat in there. But a tool down the road somewhere. I mean to discuss. Think about. There is a cost to it because it's a pretty swift deal. If you want to talk about inundating cable TV and public access and things like that. Plus we also know some guys who work over there who might be able to come over and do a knock off for us at a reduced rate. Lash: We have, didn't we talk about at this deal possibly having that slide show of Bluff Creek? '~,.: -f~.' Andrews: The Bluff Creek slide show. Hoffman: Yes, we did. It was on the initial list. That list...was about another third as long. Another half that long. It begins to get complex and complicated... 15 or 20 minutes of your time to talk about that particular issue. Andrews: Could we maybe get those guys to, you know even if you could get like a half a II"" dozen to put in your projector and just shine them up on the walls and just have them keep commg up. Lash: Well that's what I was thinking. Like behind Jane. If it was something that was just so they could see what they're talking about. Andrews: Does that close item 8(a) then? Hoffman: Yes. DIRECfOR'S REPORT. Hoffman: 8(b) is something that I often feel that I'm losing touch with the...! want to keep you up to date on what's going on and Lake Ann parking fees. This is going to be a tough issue. The opinions at the Council are very diverse. In fact there was a big move to go ahead and allow residents to get in free but to charge non-residents and staffs position was... Lash: It seems like we discussed that too. That it would be such a hassle to police. Andrews: Yeah. It was like 6% of our revenue. .~ ;II'" 35 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 -" Lash: What kind of, you said, you've got on here public opinion. A handful of calls and in person testimony. So like what kinds of things are you hearing? Hoffman: People have called in and said, you know that's the best thing...lived here for 15 years, 10 years, 5 years and it's the best thing. I can't believe you have to pay to get in. And then the other people say, don't do it. It's a gate keeper and they talk about the controls... Lash: Any weight to the numbers? Hoffman: Not enough. They went both w~s. Heritage Development, Creekside. We talked about that I think a couple of instances this'evening... the long linear park with the trees. The City Council upheld the decision as far as the recommendations of the Planning Commission, Park and Recreation Commission. They approved the preliminary plat with 44 lots, not 48 which they asked for. Those 4 lots then are on the property which is identified for park and open space. And thus they, 10 approve final plat they would have to go ahead and amend their sub plan. Manders: One question on that. Wasn't the road slotted to go through that treed area or is that supposed to go around? Hoffman: It goes smack dab inbetween these. He said well, that's the only place a road can go but we want to save this half of trees. -" Manders: Okay, so it's just one half. Lash: Is that the one that we said we want the road so you could see the, okay. Hoffman: Yeah. Originally the plan was to move the road all the way over to the wetlands. It didn't work. We said alright, we'll allow you to go back to the middle. Have the lots back up against the creek. Still retain the trail corridor but then we want to preserve this open space and the Council came out very strongly in favor in that, even at the approximate cost of $30,000.00 per acre. Lash: I think this was the one I mentioned to you earlier that I have a hard time, and I have to imagine other people do, that tracking what these development names are or developers names and where they are. I just can't keep track. Roeser: This one I had fO~fotten all about. 36 -"" ",.... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Lash: Yeah, I had too so I know I need to have something, some kind of reference point made on these for me to make a connection. Meger: It'd be helpful to have that. Hoffman: I'll make that an addition to the map... Commission appointments, Fred and Jim...new policy in regards to appointments to commissions and it looks like they have changed the schedule from getting that job done in October through December to January through April and so your budget and all those other things can be done in the fall of the year and then the appointments can be made, I think April is what they're looking at. So you're both up for interviews... On going issues, ~~ have the Harstad Companies... Huffman: Can we write letters of support? What do we do? I mean on protocol here. I need some help. ~ Lash: Generally it's not a real big issue Dave. Huffman: Oh yeah, right. '" Andrews: Well it hasn't been yet Dave. Maybe it will be. Huffman: Yeah, I've seen this dance before too. Lash: And it's Fred and, I can't even remember. Andrews: Jim. Hoffman: On going issues, we have 4, the Harstad Companies. You reviewed that this evening. So again that will go back to the Planning Commission for preliminary plat and eventually the City Council so watch for that to move along. 5, the Stockdale acquisition. The ball is in their court. Again, I spoke to Dave's spouse. They...contacted me again but I'm not sure if they're turning cold to the idea... 6, the Opus Gateway application is on going. Under construction activity, we have a lot of trail segments going in. The Meadows at Long Acres, Trotter's Ridge, Stone Creek Trails, and then 10, the new elementary school rec center is coming along nicely. They've name it, if you haven't heard, Bluff Creek Elementary. And then I noted that a big thanks goes out to Jim for attending the January 9th meeting...With that I have nothing further unless there are any questions of the commission. Andrews: Okay, Adminisdative. Any highlights there? J1I"'" 37 Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 """'" ADMINISTRATIVE SECllON. Hoffman: There certainly are....should the map be displayed. The second issue is, the newest member of our staff, the newest engaged member of the staff is Dawn Lemme. She was engaged this Sunday. Sometime this Mayor September she thinks. Lash: So is this the person that was at the 4th of July? Andrews: Well this will be an ongoing agenda item. fr.: Hoffman: As far as the administrative secf1~n. There's a whole ton of stuff in there. Lash: And wait. The letter from the lawyer, Heritage division Creekside. Now what's, is this the one we were just talking about? / Hoffman: You bet. Lash: They're still having a problem with where we want to, and that's it. Hoffman: There it is. "."", Andrews: Incurring costs. Determining the legal bill. I note one other highlight here, at least that I saw and that was, a paper authored by you Todd. I read it. I thought it was extremely well written and a grade well deserved. I thought it was really a well written paper. Any other highlights? Now what was this referring to? Ruegemer: That was back in June of '92. Patrick Thompson was playing...South Tonka Little League game. At the time I think he was 10 years old. A close play in the infield with a short hop to the shortstop. As he was running down to first baseline and he lunged towards the base. His leg locked up and as he passed over the base, his cleats got caught into the dirt of the infield causing his leg to lock up and break. So that's he broke his leg on that play and it's been an ongoing battle now for close to 2 1/2 years now. So it's looking, the Thompson's were coming after the City of Chanhassen. The City of Chanhassen was suing South Tonka Little League, the base manufacturer and...and I'm glad it's over. I'm sure everybody's glad it's over. Andrews: Great. Way to face off... Any other items? If not, is there a motion to adjourn? .~ 38 ......" ,..... Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995 Meger moved, Andrews seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim ~> / "..... ,~ ,.. 39