PRC 1995 03 28
1""'" CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREA nON COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAROI 28, 1995
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,.....
Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Jane Meger, Jim Manders and
Ron Roeser
MEMBERS ABSENT: Dave Huffman
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: None.
VISITOR PRESENTA nONS:
Chris Polster: I'm Chris Polster. I'm the CAA President of the CAA and a response to our
CAA meeting of last week, we have a couple other things to talk about that we'd like to get
on the agenda. First of all, we've been going through the process of...but anyway, we're
raising money for the kids youth recreation programs from the business community and the
community's been very supportive of doing that and we're trying to think of creative ways to
not only collect money from the business community but give something back to the business
community in response to their generosity. Because again we're looking at this as a
community effort, this raising of children. And one of the ideas came up with the ideas of
signs. Particularly whether it be for baseball for instance on fences or backstops,
or...whatever and I kind of related to the group what, at least staffs opinion of signs are. I'm
not sure what the commissions are but that we really don't want signs on the fences, and I
respect that. Some other ideas, not only that but came out of it the idea of temporary signs.
For instance of banner. One of the ways to collect money for instance as a sponsorship we're
thinking is naming a field after a sponsor and during the game we would hang up a banner,
for instance Byerly's Field. A banner that says Byerly's Field. Instead those would be at
Byerly's Field...instead of having the numbers. The sign would be put up before game and
taken down after the game. And again I don't know if there are city ordinances or
commission ideas about that but what we'd like is I guess some guidance in regards to
signage and what we can and what we can't do. Again, looking at the idea of raising money
for the kids. So the idea of signs...
Andrews: Okay. We'll put that up for consideration.
Chris Polster: Okay. And then the other thing that I wanted to talk about was a stronger
interaction between the Park Commission and the CAA. The CAA is a parent run volunteer
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
....."
organization and the Park Commission, as I understand it, is not only a land and trees and
lakes and water issue but also a recreational issue. And our organization is getting just huge
right now. It's getting so big, it's getting difficult to manage. And in fact, we're getting to
the point where we need to have stronger continuity from year to year. We don't have that
with a parent run organization because of elections. Because it changes and people, at that
kind of thing, sometimes the needed changes within the organization don't happen. For
instance, By-laws. An organization is run by By-laws that were written in 1972 and we never
seem to get to change them because the administration is changing from year to year and
there's some things that I guess I would like to see the Park Commission adopt as part of
their responsibility and that is to make sure that there is some continuity from year to year
with the program in regards to whether or not we are operating under Park Commission's
missions for instance and objectives. That kind of thing. I think I'd like to see a little bit
more ownership from the commission. And it's not that I think you're ignoring us, at least
purposely but I think we're a little taken from granted. It's always run fairly well and it's
running fairly well right now and I'd like to think that it always will run fairly well but I
really think that we're getting taken for granted right now. A lot of things aren't getting done
that could be done because people like me for instance don't know some of the rules. You
know about how to go about getting things and I'm a President for one year, and I'll talk more
regarding the lights, that we'll talk about later, as an example of how what I didn't know is
going to have an adverse affect on the community, in my opinion. And I think there are
some things, like continuity, that have to be addressed by the commission and the issue of
serving the entire community. We need help with that. It's can't be just the CAA organization
doing that. We need help from the whole commission and insuring that the District #276
children are I guess more aggressively, not recruited but informed and drawn into the
programs. I know right now CAA is totally dominated by District #112 and we would really
like to see more District #276 kids getting involved and we really need your help to do that.
And I would like for you to accept some of that responsibility so if there is a way for you to
do that, I'd like...
"""'-"
Berg: Chris, I think it would be helpful if we saw some of those By-laws that you're talking
about.
Chris Polster: What I can do is make copies of all the By-laws and the Articles and the
corporation that we have. Whatever you'd be interested in having, I'll make copies. We're
trying to get as well organized as possible. We're writing job descriptions. We're actually
going through a formal budget process for the first times in our lives but it's only because of
the initiative of a couple people as opposed to a Park Commission saying look, you guys have
got to do this. Because really I guess I think that the Park Commission a long time ago
should have been keeping maybe a closer eye on CAA to make sure it was doing things the
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I""'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
correct way. Particularly as it regards funding issues and what can and can't be done and
should and shouldn't be done. That kind of thing. To serve the whole community.
Andrews: I look at this topic as one that will not be resolved in one or two meetings.
Chris Polster: I agree.
Andrews: Partly because there are other community organizations that would have similar
interests and there's the difficulty of what's fair for all.
Chris Polster: Well and that's exactly one of the reasons for the need, as a matter of fact. I
think it all has to be put out on the table.
Andrews: Yeah, and I agree with that too. I mean there are other cities that have brought
some of the community Athletic Associations in underneath the Park and Rec Department and
some that haven't and so I see your initiative here as something that has long term potential
and I'm certainly interested in looking into it but I don't know where it could lead. Probably
the same for you so.
,....
Chris Polster: Well you know, perhaps the discussion is nothing more than to assign it to
staff and...maybe it's getting a task force together. Maybe it's doing whatever but I guess I
don't want to see the ball dropped just because it can't be resolved in one meeting.
Andrews: Well I think your interest is the same as our's, which is let's see if we can find a
more efficient and better way to do it if it's there.
Chris Polster: Okay. Because I think too there's a lot of pressure put on staff that doesn't
necessarily have to be there. They're put in a position, an awkward position in a lot of cases
because of getting hit from a lot of different angles and you saw one of the problems last year
with your priority system on fields. Not that we were all happy with your decision but we
live with it and we respect it and we honor it but without that decision, staff was really put in
an awkward position and there are other situations with the new gym coming up. The same
thing. The same type of thing and I'd like to avoid problems rather than fix them later, if
possible, especially on facilities, indoor facilities coming up.
Berg: If you can get that stuff to staff, it would really be appreciated so we can see that too.
Chris Polster: Okay, thank you.
Andrews: Are there any other new visitor presentations at this time?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
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CITIZEN REQUEST FOR PARK IMPROVEMENTS (BASKETBALL COURT AND SAND
VOLLEYBALL COURT) AT POWER HILL PARK.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Steven Milewski
Tim McGee
Ed and Andrew Kraft
Kevin Rohe
Don Coban
Ray Carver
Susan Hurm
Mike Leeman
Bob Engebretson
Leslee Johnson
Bryan Botz
Ron Michels
Wendy Pekarek
8602 Flamingo Drive
1411 Mallard Court
8711 Flamingo Drive
8696 Flamingo Drive
8821 Sunset Trail
8704 Flamingo Drive
8542 Flamingo Drive
8726 Flamingo Drive
8720 Flamingo Drive
8719 Flamingo Drive
8743 Flamingo Drive
8751 Flamingo Drive
8735 Flamingo Drive
...,.,.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Andrews: A couple questions Todd. A rough idea of costs. 50 x 50 asphalt surface.
Hoffman: In rough terms...with the pole for under $3,000.00.
Andrews: Okay. And a sand lot. A volleyball.
Hoffman: $500.00-$600.00.
Lash: What size?
Hoffman: $500.00 or $600.00 in material costs.
Berg: What percentage of that flat land would be used? For the basketball court and the
volleyball.
Hoffman: You have, by the time you're done, about 50 x 100 would be consumed so you'd
take about a fourth of it.
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,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Andrews: Are there any members from the audience that wish to make any comments about
this proposal? If so, please approach the microphone. State your name and address for the
record.
Resident: I guess I don't have a lot to add to that. I would like to express my appreciation
for both the commission and for Todd for the quick response that we received and also your
visit to the location which demonstrates to me that you are very concerned with the
community and the park development.
Andrews: Thank you.
Bob Engebretson: Oh, I guess I don't know if you need to know where we live in relation to
the park or not.
Lash: We need your name and address.
Bob Engebretson: Bob Engebretson. I live at 8720 Flamingo Drive. I back up directly to
where that basketball court would go. First off, I'd like to express my disappointment in the
,..... Board here. I was here a year and a half ago discussing tennis courts and it was determined
at that time that we were going to put the playground in, and I see here now that's in question
obviously.
Andrews: The playground's not in question.
Bob Engebretson: It's going in this year? Because it didn't really state here whether or not.
Andrews: No. What Todd just said what was mailed out for bid, or will be mailed out for
bid tomorrow, that's planned to go in this summer early.
Bob Engebretson: Alright. Then I apologize for that comment because I was told that it was
up in the air.
Andrews: The playground is not in question at all.
Bob Engebretson: Okay. There are three things that I have a concern about. First off in the
packet in general, in this community. My taxes have gone up 18% each year for the last two
years. I now pay close to $4,000.00 a year in property taxes. I know of a comparable house
in Woodbury, actually a more valuable home than mine who pay $500.00 less. Same
identical model. Joe Miller model in approximately the same type of park setting. And I
guess I'm kind of fed up with the fact that we just come up with great ideas and spend
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
money. $3,600.00 doesn't sound like a lot but it's money that it hasn't been budgeted for.
Now we're talking about adding it to the budget. I'm concerned about it. We're going to be
putting more money into Powers Boulevard. CR 17 going to 4 lanes. That's going to cost us
all some money. Add park improvements other than that what was already budgeted. You're
just adding upon that and I don't see an end in sight. So that's one of my first, probably my
major concern. My second concern up there is if you put a basketball court up there, you do
eliminate the secluded area and you've all seen what's it like up there. Very quiet. There's a
lot of wildlife up there. For example I can tell you I saw 5 deer in my back yard last night.
We see a lot of pheasants. Wild turkeys. Geese come up there so, I mean that's a plus and
I'm not saying they would necessarily all go away but they certainly wouldn't be out there in
the daylight hours while the kids are out playing basketball on that court. Probably my
biggest concern after the taxes is the noise pollution. Basketballs are loud. Very loud.
There's nothing up there really to stop that noise. And I live on, purposely bought on that
park lot for the quietness and I feel you'd be taking away from that and I think as you talk, or
as some of the people here address you tonight, you're going to find where a lot of those
people who are for it, are across the street from us and they live in an area on the curve
where all their backyards adjoin one another and they have several kids. I couldn't tell you
how many but there's probably a group of 10-12 of them that run around back there and play.
And you get 10-12 kids around playing, they're very loud and I have a real concern about not
only those kids moving over to the park directly behind me, but also the fact of what may
come from that. To give an example, last fall I caught 3 youths smoking down towards the
ravine. They were probably ages 9, 10, 11 or somewhere right around there. I sent them
home. I do not know who's kids they are. It may not have been even from the neighborhood
but I suspect they were and I think that kind of thing will just multiply. That sort of problem
back up there on the hill. I guess the third issue comes down to privacy and would the kids
really be using the park entrance to gain access to that basketball court? I highly doubt it.
The direct path to that basketball court is going to be through my yard. And I've got 3 kids
of my own and I don't have any problem with kids walking through my yard, walking their
bikes through, whatever it may be but generally speaking it leads to other things and I'm
already seeing it. And the neighborhood is young...so I really don't think it's a necessity right
now for the park to put a basketball court in. It's very cheap to put a hoop up in your yard.
But I think there may be some underlying reasoning for putting that hoop in the park.
Especially ina park that is very, very close to the housing. And I think there will be other
people here who would back me on that in terms of that noise and I think it will be a real
problem. I guess those were my major concerns. That and the other thing is, we talked, I
just called a friend of our's, Kim Simonson who lives down the way near the, I don't know
what park it's called. The one on the north end.
Hoffman: Sunset Ridge.
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Bob Engebretson: Sunset Ridge. She lives directly, or the sand volleyball courts are directly
behind her home. She says they get used very, very infrequently. She said it's basically a big
sand beach. That's all it is back there so I don't see any need for a volleyball court, and I'm
not sure who brought that up. And I don't think kids would be the ones using that volleyball
court. I guess that's all I can think of right at the moment.
Andrews: Thank you. Any other residents that wish to make any comment?
Don Coban: My name is Don Coban. I live at 8821 Sunset Trail. The proposed blacktop
area abuts my property directly. We have 2 1/2 acres. Just to give you an idea, I'm directly
to the west, slightly south of that...200 foot space. I'd like to just kind of go back to why we
moved out to this area. We moved out in this area when there really wasn't much around.
We built out there for the peace and quiet and...kind of expanded this area and it's grown up.
There's all sorts of development all the way around. Getting more kids. More people, and
you kind of expect certain things. Well, in that whole area, that little piece of property out
there is about the only quiet piece around. Like Bob said, we've got deer going through
there. We've had fox going through. We've got pheasants. Rabbits. The whole bit. We've
also got snowmobiles and noisy kids. This last winter, with the lack of snow that we had, I
11"""'" had two snowmobiles go through my yard, coming off of a dead end street, just going
through. You can't catch them. You can't do anything with them but they went right across
that area. I don't know where they went, but that's some of the things we have to put up with
more and more. Like has been said, suggestion of a volleyball court. I think...play volleyball
all over the country and it's not really a kid's game. It's not for little kids. It's for adults and
junior adults, if you want to say it that way. and it's noisy and because that area is really
secluded, it gets really noisy and there's other problems associated with it when you get into a
quiet area. The original idea, when I first got out there, was that, and when it started
development, was that area would make a nice picnic area. That was some of the
conversation. It kind of got away from that and went to the tennis court idea. Now we're
getting away from that and going to some of the other ideas. I'd like to see us go back to the
old idea of having it as a picnic area. Or it's just a sit down and look at, like we've seen in
the diagrams here. It's got a good view and you can see for miles, and it's quiet. Right now
it is anyway. And for a lot of people, that's a good idea. Just get away from things and sit
down and think for a while.
Andrews: Okay, thank you. Anyone else?
Susan Hurm: I'm Susan Hurm, 8542 Flamingo Drive...one of the things I would like to say
about the upper part of Power Hill is that I agree. It's a very nice flat area and it does have a
great view, and I hate to see it tom up for a volleyball net when the bottom one is not used
as well but I think there still could be...not destroy that. That you could get both uses out of
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
--"
it and still be able to enjoy...be something that could be moved out. Out of the place when
it's not...not going to be used year round yet you still have the access...and they're not out
there when the kids are playing and...so we're not disrupting the environment as much... And I
guess when we bought in this area, it was a potential park and people that did buy with their
land abutting the potential park knew that and they knew it when they bought the lot that
there was a proposed tennis court there. So they knew that we were looking at it for use for
recreation. So I think we have to be aware of that. That we maybe can have both...kids need
to have a place to play. If we don't provide them a place to play, then they will do the things
that they are doing now...nothing for kids to do in that area. And sure, you put that hoop up
but you can't play basketball with a group of kids on a driveway...we want to provide them
with things to do and if you look at those...activities and recreation that are fun for kids.
They want to...
Andrews: Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak about this topic?
Alright, thank you. Why don't we start on your end Jan and let's work our way down.
Comments and we'll make it...
Lash: Okay. It's a tough one. The neighbors themselves disagree on what they'd like to see
there and I don't think that we have been provided with any kind of an idea of numbers here.
How many really want the development and how many would prefer not to see the
development and I guess the item up to us tonight is the basketball court and I'm not sure
when the volleyball got brought in. Was that after the last meeting Todd?
--'
Hoffman: That's a part of the visitor presentation at the last meeting.
Lash: Okay. Upon touring the site, I would hate to see that top section get chopped up into
too many segments. I think right now the nice flat area would be conducive for kids to do
free play. To do catch and frisbee and kite flying and those kinds of things. I'm not opposed
to putting in a basketball court if it's located in the vicinity of, or closest to the parking lot so
it doesn't chop up the flat area. I'd be interested in seeing some price estimates on what kind
of drain work would need to be done in the lower segment. We could maybe put in a
backstop down there. I'm not sure if there's enough space but that might be a spot. For some
pick-up games in the future I'd be willing to look at a budget amendment or a contingency
fund this year on the basketball court. I guess I'd be more interested in putting in the play
equipment this year and a basketball court this year and I'm holding off in seeing how those
things are used and get some input from the neighborhood after one season and then see for
next year how much more development we want to put in there. I'd also be interested in
seeing how much of the wetness is caused from the sump pumps draining into the lower
segment and if that seems to be a problem, the residents are going to need to deal with that.
If they want us to put money in to fix that up and do something that's usable, then we can't
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".... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
have the sump pumps draining in there contributing to the problem. So I'd be interested in
looking at a couple of year phase in for some of these things to see how they're used and to
see how the cost will affect our budget. A couple of comments that, one I have for Mr.
Engebretson regarding the taxes. None of the things that we do come from your property
taxes.
Bob Engebretson: Where do they come from?
Lash: It comes from the fees that we collect from the developers.
Bob Engebretson: From the where?
Lash: Developers. From the homes. Your permit, we collect the money and we use the
money to buy land or to acquire land from developers when the homes are built and then the
excess money, if we don't require land is used to outfit the parks. So your taxes and my
taxes and everybody's taxes here went up this year and nobody likes it but it's not coming to
the Park Commission. I can guarantee you that.
,.....,. Bob Engebretson: Then according to the staff sheet on this report, it shows 1995 $22,000.00
for play area and then 1996 it shows zero. So where does the $3,600.00 plus labor come
from for the basketball and volleyball that they've mentioned?
Lash: We have our fund, we have our budget for this year and built into our budget we have
a small contingency fund for these kind of pop up requests that come up from residents so
that we can try and respond to requests. So that's built into our budget and our budget is
roughly $150,000.00 a year. And that's what we use to equip all of the parks and maintain
those. So I look at, I'd want to look at a phase in thing and just in a comment, I think I read
somewhere that someone made a comment that they were concerned that we had put the
development of this park on hold and I think if you look at our budget, our capital
improvement, you can see that each year there's been consistently money going in to this
park. Generally we'll be on a cycle with the neighborhood park of putting something in one
year and then there may be a down cycle the next year and there might not be as much done
the next year and then the next year we'll put in and you can see that this park has followed
that pattern exactly. And another thing I'd like to see going up in the top part, spot area in
response to the other gentleman's question or comment who lives on Sunset. I too would like
to see some picnic tables or something put in up there. I think that's a fantastic view and to
just have a quiet area for people to go up there and appreciate that view. Maybe some
benches or something over on the edge would be nice. That's the end of my comments.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
--'
Meger: I guess I would ditto a lot of Jan's comments and I think when the proposal was
originally brought in, there wasn't, it seemed like the volleyball court was an add on and there
seems to be a lot of conversation and I guess I've had a lot of similar experience with
volleyball courts that they don't seem to be as much used by youth and certainly if someone
does want to play volleyball, it's very easy to bring in a portable net and set something up so
at this point I would hate to put in a lot of sand in that top area and just jump right into
something like that. If a basketball court is put in, which I certainly wouldn't have a problem
with. I would ditto that. I would like to see it further down towards the parking lot and try
and keep that other area open. Even the idea of a picnic shelter at this point I think might be
jumping a little bit too far. I would recommend the idea of benches or picnic tables before a
full blown shelter would go in there. I guess when we're talking shelter we'd probably be
talking something open but, with a roof on it so you could get out of the sun or out of the
rain. As far as the lower area, it was wet but I was expecting I guess a lot worst. There was
grass there so I certainly wouldn't be opposed to some, I don't know what there is for portable
netting for soccer. Putting up some goals just for the kids to have some of that and put it
away for a while but I'd also be in favor of finding out what it would cost to do some
toweling in the area. It sounds like we could do that with relatively low expense and increase
the value of that lower area and make it better for soccer. I guess one concern I have is that
I heard several times this evening, both when we were at the site, that the kids need
something to do and I don't know that kids have changed that much but I know my son, and
myself included, you know a flat lot like that is also ideal. You can do so many things
without having a play structure that I hope we don't lose sight of that as well.
....."
Andrews: W ell I agree with most of what's been said already. I personally would be
opposed to considering anything with a volleyball. Sand lot volleyball. I used to live next to
Lotus Lake Park, which already has a sand lot volleyball net and it hardly ever got used. I
think it would be chopping up a very nice flat area that there's relatively little of that's usable
as it is. However I do think putting in a hard surface for basketball would be a good idea,
and the reason why is that whole entire park complex area there's really no adult recreational
activity that we're presently planning to offer and I guess that would give kids and adults
some place to go to enjoy the park with an active use which would be, which would have
relatively minor impact but I again would caution that it would be positioned as close to the
play structure area as possible so we could leave that rectangular area open if possible. And I
think some picnic tables would be a good idea and I would like to preserve, other than a
basketball hoop, pretty much leave it as close to the way it is as possible. I think the view is
quite nice and the flat field is just fine. One of the comments I made to people, I'm very
active in soccer and coaching and administering the Tonka United program. If you put soccer
nets up, you will have soccer teams there coming to practice and I guarantee you that
somebody will be here in front of us saying we don't like all the cars coming in and out of
our neighborhood dropping off kids to come practice in our neighborhood so, when you say
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,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
you'd like to have soccer goals, understand what soccer goals are for and that's for soccer
games. And people will come and use them and perhaps it might be better just to have the
field there and if kids want to kick a ball around, they can put a couple of cones up or some
shoes or a couple of logs or whatever and just play because that's all they really need. So
that's really all I have to say.
Roeser: I guess I'd just pretty much would repeat everything every one else said as far as I
really would hate to see us do anything with that flat lot. That's so nice for just playing. I
wouldn't object to putting up a basketball court close to that playground area. But certainly
not in that flat spot. Sometimes a nice flat spot, just being there for kids is all you really
need. I mean you don't have to have nets and things. They do improvise. Kids can play
without having you know an honest to God volleyball net there or soccer net. You can play
without having all these standard things. I would really be opposed to doing anything with
that flat spot, with the exception of some picnic tables or things like that. And so that's all I
have to say. Jim.
Manders: Couple comments. One being that the park and the noise that might result from
basketball. To me anyone buying next to a park has to expect that it's going to be used and
,.... to the extent that it creates noise, that's part of living next to a park. The other comment
would be the lower area, in terms of putting up back stops and things. My concern would be
the residents living in that area having cars parked in their driveways, because there's really
no parking space down there and I think you might be creating problems that way. That's it.
Berg: Well I'm in the enviable position of being the last person. I'm not, after having seen
it, I'm not comfortable with having anything up there. Having a basketball court or a
volleyball. I guess my one concession to the passivity of the park might be a backstop. Ron
and I talked about this a little bit before and maybe I'm just of an era of dinosaurs, I don't
know but I used to really enjoy going to an area like that area is and playing. If you give me
a ball and you give me a bat and 3 shirts or 3 rags, I can make a diamond and I can play. I
guess that's the way I lean. I'm not even sure we need a backstop. My first reaction to Mr.
Engebretson when he talked about the noise was, son of a gun. You bought something by a
park and it's going to be noisy and kids are going to be noisy. Heaven knows. But maybe
there's a type of compromise here. I don't know that you need the sound of basketballs, and
I'm a basketball coach. I can't believe I'm saying that. There are lots of courts. Adults can
go other places and play volleyball or basketball if they need be. If there isn't anything right
there for the adults in the neighborhood, they're not that far away. I'd like to try to keep it as
pristine as we can. Maybe a backstop I can be talked into but I'm not even so sure about that
anymore. Let them just go out and play in that area. That's all I have.
Andrews: You have a comment you wish to add?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Don Coban: I just wanted to comment. A couple of people have mentioned about the
placing of the nets.
Hoffman: Your name please for the Minutes.
Don Coban: It's Donald Coban. 8821 Sunset Trail. I just wanted to comment again that I
bought that before it was even thought of as a park. At that time it was considered to be
residential and I expected other houses to be in there so...bought it with the idea of being a
park. At that time, even considering the park...MUSA line was on the outside of that. It
wasn't.. .
Andrews: Is there anybody else that wishes to add a last comment?
Bob Engebretson: Yes.
Andrews: Please.
Bob Engebretson: I'd just like to, first off do you want my name again? It's Bob
Engebretson. I'd just like to say again that what Fred stated here is, I'd like to see the park
remain pristine, as he called it. I'd like to make a comment though that I'm all for the kids
having fun too. I grew up with a family of 5 brothers. We would have killed for a flat spot
that big. This past summer I can attest to what some of the kids were doing back there. The
fun things they were doing. They were playing ball back there. They were putting boards, as
somebody said, putting boards down. A couple rags so you could see the bases and what not.
I was the one that mowed that park for them, long before the city started mowing it, and I
have no problem with the kids coming back there and playing and getting a pick up game of
baseball, flying kites, whatever it may be. That's not a problem. I think the problem is that
basketball court will become a magnet for the kids and potentially the older kids. We've
already seen it. Late, late nights. People coming into that parking lot. We don't know who,
at 2:00-3:00 in the morning and I think that basketball court will just attract more of that and
there's no control over how late those kids are out at that court. Kids play late in the summer
and they're going to play after dark. My kids are young and I don't want older kids out there
at 10:00-11:00 in the middle of the summer. I think that that probably would happen. Thank
you.
Berg: I think it probably is going to happen anyway. As soon as they discover that parking
lot, I think it's going to happen anyway.
Bob Engebretson: I think, and it already has begun. Ray, a neighbor, he adjoins right to the
park and he's probably got more experience with it but I've seen it because I've got a bedroom
12
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".... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
window that over sees that parking lot and late at night, the 2:00 in the morning type thing
does occur and I just think the more you put up in that secluded area, the more it's going to
attract that sort of thing.
Wendy Pekarek: I'm Wendy Pekarek. I live at 8735 Flamingo Drive and when we bought
our lot, we could have bought some of the lots that did back up to the park but we didn't
because of some of those thoughts. But we did hear and we did know that there was going to
be a park there and that there was going to be a tennis court and there was going to be quite
a few things that our kids could use. Our kids are 6, 8 and 10 years old. There are a lot of
kids that are over age 6 in this area and I do think that we need to have something for the
older kids other than a playground because there was a tennis court or something slated for
that area anyway. But I do agree with Bob where there, I don't know how we can have some
kind of curfew if there is a basketball court because I can see why, that's one reason we didn't
buy those lots because we thought, there's going to be people there until 10:00, 11:00, 12:00
at night. Is there anything that can be said about curfews and if there's an idea for a
temporary basketball hoop, to see how it goes. Could we try that? I don't know.
Lash: You can put a basketball hoop in the ground but it's not going to be too much fun if
"... you don't have a hard surface. And once you put the hard surface in, then it's permanent.
Wendy Pekarek: Right...there is already a parking lot.
Andrews: Yeah, we can't do that.
Lash: We can't put it in the parking lot.
Andrews: It's a safety issue.
Lash: It's an idea but we can't do that.
Andrews: The parks already do have open and closed hours, although enforcement is
difficult. The County doesn't consider it a real high priority to chase people out of parks and
we don't have the staffing ourselves to really do that so.
Wendy Pekarek: Is there any neighborhood things that you could suggest to us as being
neighbors to try to agree on some kind of a curfew for these kids because I do know that they
are, they can be out very late.
,.....
13
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
-"
Lash: The park hours end at 1 0:00 so if you see kids in there after 1 0:00, I guess if you
made an effort to call the police every time you see them and they get chased out every time,
that's about the only thing you can do and they may get the message after a few times.
Wendy Pekarek: Thanks.
Mike Leeman: My name's Mike Leeman. I live at 8726 Flamingo Drive. I'd like to ask you
why is there a parking lot there in the first place.
Roeser: Well there's going to be a playground there. There's a sliding hill there. There is
the open field there.
Mike Leeman: Do you think that people are going to drive to this great park?
Roeser: Some people might.
Lash: I think the sliding hill itself.
Roeser: The sliding hill is very attractive to me.
Lash: Yeah, that was the reason.
.....",
Roeser: We haven't had much of a snow storm.
Mike Leeman: Have you ever slid down that hill?
Lash: No. I don't slide down hills anymore..,Well, I think when we initially started.
Mike Leeman: You need 3 or 4 times, then it's done. So I think a lot of the neighbors here
are saying, why not just put a basketball hoop up in the parking because it doesn't get used
for cars anyway...
Andrews: We can't. We can't.
Roeser: That parking lot belongs to everyone in the city regardless, or the parking lot's
everyone in the city in spite of the fact that it's in your neighborhood so if I do want to some
up there and sit on the hill and look out, you don't want me parking on the street in front of
your house. You'd rather have me in a parking lot.
Mike Leeman: Well, I don't see what the problem with that would be.
14
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"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Andrews: Well, we've had frequent, more frequent complaints when we don't have a small
parking facility like that. That's a common complaint actually.
Mike Leeman: Well see, most of the people that come to that park are within walking
distance.
Andrews: We understand that. But we serve the entire city.
Mike Leeman: ...I don't understand the parking lot idea in the first place.
Andrews: Well we do need to provide for all citizens equally and I, grant it. I mean most
people do go to the park nearest their house. I mean I do. So does everybody else I'm sure
but if somebody called me up and said, geez. It's a pretty winter night. Let's go down and
slide, I'd like to be able to go to the park and have easy access.
Mike Leeman: No, no. The sliding hill was closed last year. This last year, right? Or was
it open this last year? It was open? Then how come the parking lot wasn't plowed then?
I"""'" Andrews: I can't answer that.
Mike Leeman: Because there were people parking on the street and walking to the sliding
hill even though it wasn't plowed.
Hoffman: The parking lot may not be plowed the day after a large snow storm. It's not a
priority.. .
Mike Leeman: Well I've got one other request. You know the black strips of stuff you've
got in the park.
Andrews: Down below the bluff there?
Mike Leeman: Yeah. Can we get those removed possibly? Since the grass has taken in.
Andrews: Those are for erosion.
Mike Leeman: Yeah. Erosion control strips you know.
Hoffman: The erosion control was placed last year as part of the turf establishment and that
is on a 1995 work...to remove it.
I"""'"
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
-'
Andrews: Okay, thank you. Anybody else? Briefly please.
Steve Milewski: It will be real brief. Steve Milewski, 8602 Flamingo. This is regarding the
lower level of the park and the water problem, the drainage problem. Where you went
through tonight, it was soggy but if you would have gone to the east, you would have been
walking through 2 inches of water there and that's right where your turf path goes through
and so there is a concern. Anything we can do to do a little bit of drainage in that area, even
have the neighbors pitch in. You know if something could be coordinated to help out. Just
try to figure out, if there's water coming from those sump pumps down the hill, let's capture it
right at the bottom of the hill and get it out of there through you know, a 4 inch pipe or just a
little ditch we can put in there that would be very inexpensive this year and try to figure out
where the big problem is, or maybe it's just the sole drainage across that park and it's just
collecting on the east side of that. Plus the percolation of that whole property there is pretty
tough so I don't know if a tile if a total solution but maybe to do something quick this year to
kind of segregate where the issues are coming into it and try to eliminate the sump pumps
from that. But that's all I want to say. There is a water problem there, thank you.
Andrews: Thank you. Well we've got a proposal. We need a motion on this to take some
action. Is there a motion anybody cares to make here? If not I'll move.
Lash: I'll try and put one together. I'd move that we direct staff to draw up a plan to submit
to us for final approval that would show a basketball court to be located as close as possible
to the parking area/playground area, and with cost estimates to include some benches and
picnic tables for the upper area. And a separate plan to show us possibilities for the lower
area which would solve the drainage problem with cost estimates to that and cost estimates of
a backstop for the lower area.
....;
Andrews: A friendly suggestion.
Lash: Okay. I'm open.
Andrews: A suggestion here would be to separate that under two separate motions so we're
not tied into one big decision. So I guess can we do that?
Lash: Yeah, that's fine.
Andrews: So we're talking just about.
Lash: For the upper area I'd like to see a plan and cost estimates to include tables, benches
and a basketball court located as close.
16
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,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Andrews: As near as possible, okay. I'll second that. Any further discussion?
Hoffman: Clarification?
Andrews: Yes.
Hoffman: As we visited that site this evening, this small square is not shown in the exact
configuration of what will eventually end up there for a play structure. As you recall, it's
much longer and rectangular in shape. Something in that area. The physical constraints.
Again the parking lot. In order to locate another sheet of blacktop in there, things are going
to get very tight. We're going to be pushed right over to the lot lines. We'll have to move
some trees and do some other grading. This site in it's present state is not conducive to
putting on a 50 x 50 asphalt pad. In order to do that we would have to, to do it easily today
we would have to move back out into the first segment of that flat spot. I heard you say you
do not want to do that so I wanted further clarification.
Andrews: I think what we said is we want it as close as possible and then I think what the
motion is saying here, at this point is we're looking to come back with a proposal and that
""..... we're not approving a go ahead here. We'd like to see it drawn up in more detail.
Lash: I think that we were all in agreement that we don't want to see that upper portion
chopped up. So if it ended up chopping that up too much I probably would have a problem
with it.
Andrews: It probably won't fly, yeah. I don't think it would be supported either.
Lash: So we'll need to see, and if you look at it and you come up with whatever possibilities
you can possibly put together, you know if you have more than one plan, that's great.
Andrews: Any further discussion from the commission members?
Lash moved, Andrews seconded 1hat 1he Pmk and Recreation Commission direct staff to
draw up a plan to submit for final approval 1hat would show a basketball court to be located
as close as possible to 1he parking area/playground area, and cost estimates for benches and
picnic tables on 1he upper area. All voted in favor, except Berg who opposed, and 1he motion
camed wi1h a vote of 5 to 1.
Andrews: So what will happen on this one, this feasibility study I guess is what I'll call it,
comes back. Those people that signed up with their name and address on the sign up tonight
,......
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
....-I
will be notified of a future agenda item for this so, at this point we have not decided to build
anything. What we've decided to do is see if there is a buildable basketball area that we
would like to go ahead with so.
Resident: ...expected time frame when that plan might be together.
Andrews: My guess is it will be back quite quickly.
Lash: I would anticipate on next month's agenda.
Hoffman: April 25th.
Resident: And then the lower park will be.
Andrews: Well we have a second discussion item.
Lash: Well, we're going to get to that next.
Resident: I just wanted to comment. Is there anyway that we could get poles on the entrance
to that parking lot which would have a chain that could somehow go across?
""""'"
Andrews: W ell that would have to be attended then by city staff. I mean it's not a private.
Resident: We don't know if that would be possible but that would control our parking in
there, our kids in there and...
Andrews: All I can tell you from experience is the problem is not going to be as bad as you
think it might be. I mean I've lived right next to a park that's about 10 times this big and it's
not, I don't think it's going to be that serious. And the city doesn't have the staffing to run
around and tend those gates anyway so it gets to be an issue of, what do you do if there's a
car parked in there and you can't find the owner. Do you chain them in or do you leave them
there so?
Resident: ...at least posting the hours of the park. I'm not sure that that's done.
Lash: We have park signs we can certainly put in.
Andrews: Other question?
18
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Resident: We really don't need that parking lot. Why don't they just rip the driveway up and
make a walking path and then you have your blacktopped basketball court right there.
Andrews: As we said, and as a citizen that lives in a different part of Chanhassen, I feel, and
this again comes from experience of other neighborhood park situations. People in general do
not like people parking in front of their houses to use parks that are in their area so we
provide what we consider to be a small parking lot as an accommodation to the
neighborhood, to be honest, so that people from the entire city could use that park. It's a
situation where you could argue it both ways. You could say we'd rather have no parking lot
and have a basketball court there and some people would be happy but then other people
would say, you know the other night 4 people pulled up and parked right in front of my
house and I had no place for my guests to park. We had to park down the block and we
don't like it so I don't think there's a right answer. That's just the solution we chose for this
park.
Lash: When you're doing the plans, coming up with an idea, maybe a solution is to use the
parking area that we have now. I don't know what the size is for the basketball court, and
diverting parking to a different area. I don't know how you could do that but just keep that in
",-.., mind as maybe a possible solution.
Andrews: We do need to deal with that second item.
Lash: Okay. I would move to direct staff to study the lower section of this park and come
up with possible solutions for the drainage there and to look at possibilities for either a
backstop...and I don't even know, for a backstop where you would located it so you wouldn't
have to worry about a ball hitting a house and that kind of thing so we need to look at that
carefully.
Andrews: We want to look at raising that trail too, don't we? To make sure that's usable.
Lash: Yep.
Andrews: Okay. Is there a second to that motion?
Meger: I'll second that.
Andrews: Any discussion?
Hoffman: Clarification again. On the backstop, the commission has taken the policy in
neighborhood parks not to develop aggregate infields with backstops. We've talked about this
,-.
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
."""
in the past at the commission level. If we install the backstop on...in it's present condition,
what will that area around the backstop look like in another year or two years. What is the
Commission's pleasure in addressing what type of installation you would like to see
investigated?
Andrews: I think we're talking about a primitive backstop. Your concern is partially because
of the difficulty of growing grass there as it is, if that does become any kind of a heavy use, I
can't see us maintaining grass there at all. And then what do you have left, which would be
clay and muck.
Lash: Did we not put a backstop in down at Curry Farms?
Hoffman: We put a ballfield in.
Lash: With a backstop or? Oh, we put a whole ballfield in. I don't really visualize putting a
whole ballfield in down there.
Hoffman: There's not a location in Chan where we have just a backstop on grass.
Andrews: On grass. I guess at this point then, this is an amendment here would be,
recommend possible play, draw in a ghost ballfield and give us some ideas of distances so we
know if we're thinking that might be usable for a neighborhood ballfield, is there really room
to consider that or not? Not that we're going to mark it out or anything but just to give us
some scale of the space again. Is that agreeable?
.."""I
Lash: Yep. That sounds fine.
Andrews: Okay. Again, is there any discussion?
Manders: So this is just a proposal about the possible.
Andrews: Drainage and.
Roeser: I think the drainage is more important than the backstop.
Manders: So would I. I would agree.
Andrews: And we want to get that, the path has to be usable too.
20
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Lash: Okay. So we'll drop the whole backstop thing. We'll just get into what we need to do
to make it usable.
Andrews: Is that agreeable to you both?
Roeser: Right. That would be better.
Andrews: Okay. Any further discussion?
Lash moved, Meger seconded to direct staff to prepare a plan which will address the drainage
problem in the lower area and making the path usable. All voted in favor and the motion
canied.
Andrews: Again, those people will be notified of that issue too. They may come up as
separate agenda items. My guess is the discussion of the drainage might take a little longer
for us to develop an idea for that.
Lash: I have a question for some of the residents and if you want to talk it over amongst
"..... yourselves and get back to Todd. But if we're coming back in April to review bids on the
play equipment, personally I'd like to have a little input from you as far as age level of the
children there so we know what we're dealing with. If we want to have totlot type stuff or
for the 6 to 10 year range or what we're looking at here so.
Resident: ...That age group if you want to specify it, goes from 1st grade to 12th so I don't
have any statistics.
Hoffman: The specification right now lists the first phase as 5 to 12. The second phase
would follow in either 2 years, 4 years or whatever the budget is available for it. That would
be the 2 through 5.
Andrews: We need to move ahead here.
~
21
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
.....;
CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC AS SOCIA nON PROPOSAL TO INSTALL BATTING CAGES
AND BALLFIELD LIGHTS ON FIELD NO.2. LAKE ANN PARK: CHRIS POlSTER.
CAA PRESIDENT.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Chris Polster: Chris Polster, 8020 Hidden Court. Regarding the batting cages, again I guess
I'd like to make one correction. Either I misstated or it was misunderstood. It's more like 15
x 70. At least for one of the cages. Two of the cages can be 15 x 60 so the structures, what
they would mount to is three side by side and as far as where they're located, what seems best
to me, which isn't always the best. I understand that but what I'm most interested in is the
cages and not necessarily the location. I guess I'd like to make that clear also. But it seems
like just outside the left center field fences of Lake Ann 2, which is the Little League field,
there is a fair amount of space out there. Enough space to have 3 cages. Now there's a lot of
different designs and structures you can use and the kind that seems like it's most appealing
and conducive to what we want to keep Lake Ann like, and that's a park as opposed to a
baseball complex, is the kind of facility that for instance is at Mitchell, is it Park or Mitchell
Lake in Eden Prairie. They have a new facility that's pretty close to what we're proposing
here and their permanent fences that go the same dimensions that we're asking for. They
come in different colors. The ones they've chosen on Eden Prairie for instance are black and
I believe they also come in the forest green or the classic silver, if you want to do that. But
the cost would be incurred by the CAA. We currently budgeted $10,000.00 for it. It looks
like it's going to be more than this so we would amend that in the CAA to cover the costs. I
know that we're all in favor of it and we have raised the money to be able to do that as well.
We estimate the cost to be a little closer to $13,000.00-$14,000.00 than the $10,000.00. We
would have 3 machines inside the cages. They would be permanently located during the
season. Probably put out there in the middle of April and stay out there until the end of
August and we would have covers for all those machines. Security is a question and issue
that I don't have an answer for. We look for staff to their expertise in that area.
...,.,
Roeser: Would they stay right where they are all winter?
Chris Polster: Right. Well not all winter. We'd take them in in the winter time because we
wouldn't want them exposed to the freezing elements and the snow but they would stay there
during the summer time, day and night basically.
Lash: I just missed something. I dozed off for just a second. Were you talking about the
cages or the machines?
22
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,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Chris Polster: The machines. The cages would be permanent then and in the ground. The
type of machines that we've chosen, which is part of this whole budget by the way, are the
pitching arms as opposed to the wheels. And we've chosen them for a couple of reasons.
With the older kids, from a baseball perspective, were interested in developing a rhythm with
the arm motion and with the wheels it's not as important for those kids, for them to see the
ball coming...so it's necessary to be as sophisticated but from a baseball training point of
view, we would like to see the arms, there isn't a cost difference to the CAA and they're
basically high quality machines on both sides so it's kind of a choice there and that doesn't
really influence, I don't believe, what your decision might be here.
Roeser: I don't really, I still don't really understand. Are these things open all the time? Can
anyone walk in there and hit balls?
Chris Polster: Again, security would be an issue for us because the expense of the machines.
It's an issue that we have to work out and I guess what I envision is a reservation system.
With baseball fields for instance, the CAA, like other organizations that are desiring the use
of the fields, submit a facility request to the staff and staff then schedules accessibility to
certain organizations. Obviously with fields we don't have to unlock the fields like we would
""..... here but I guess I would envision somehow if we're reserving the cage, there's got to be
accessibility to that cage. We don't envision that problem, the CAA because we're locking
Lake Ann, quote unquote, virtually every night anyway with our umpires equipment and
everything else so we would have easy accessibility. The rest of the city, that's a different
question and one that you will be discussing here. I frankly don't care if the rest of the city
ever uses it, you know. But we are all committed to donating the equipment to the city so
you can manage that issue any way you like and we also understand that that means there
will be competition with other people in the city for that cage and I guess all we would
request is that again the commission establish a priority system so that, you know I guess
what we really want to see most of all is that those batting cages are available to us at the
times we're using the fields. But again, we do accept that if we donate this to the city, we
run the risk of competition for those cages with the adults. The adult softball players, that
kind of thing. These are multi-purpose machines. They can be used for either softball or
baseball, but it takes a little effort to change it so if they're set up for baseball for instance,
and softball, adult softball players wanted to use it, there would be re-work involved. And
usually the re-work takes 15 minutes to a half hour and it takes equipment like a wrench and
that kind of thing and I guess I'm personally not too convinced that the adults are going to do
that. At least at night. They may on weekends or something like but at night, the adults what
they usually do for batting practice is go out in right field and pitch the ball and I guess I
don't really see that creating competition with that. I don't think they're going to change,
especially if they have to re-work. And I guess as a CAA what we would request is that
these be installed as baseball machines, not softball machines.
,.....
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
....,zI
Meger: Is most of our softball slow pitch?
Chris Polster: Correct. The adult is all slow pitch, yeah. Really slow. Just like the players.
Berg: Why 3 cages? Do you need that many?
Chris Polster: Well we've got actually three different kinds of activities going on. We've got
baseball for the older kids. Basically 13 years old and up, which is going on at Lake Ann #1
and also at Lake Susan that's going on. We've got Little League baseball. Excuse me, those
require 60 foot cages. Although I will say that also you can simulate 60 foot mounds by
speeding up or slowing down the machines, you know whichever you want. So if you want
an 80 mph fast ball from 60 feet, that's exactly the way you'd see it done in the Major
League. If you want an 80 mph fast ball from 40 feet, you can still do the same thing by
changing the speed of the machine so I will concede that it doesn't have to be 75 feet. That
we can make adjustments and there's no reason to be unhappy about having to do that. So I
don't think we would be able to go less than probably 55 feet though and be able to get the
benefits of training. Then the second level of cages is the Little League. Their pitching
mound is 45 feet and it's a different kind of machine probably that we would use. Less
expensive machine. And then finally we've got a lot of girls softball and we're making a real
concerted effort, the last 2 or 3 years to develop girls softball and it's a much more difficult
road to hoe than the boys because the girls are much more active in a variety of things
besides softball. They don't have the tradition set up. Every year it's getting a little bit better
and if we had a batting cage in there, I think it would put it us over the hump as far as really
attracting girls to the sport of softball. And boys for that matter too. We're generic. When
we say baseball, we don't says boys baseball. We say baseball and we don't say girls softball.
We say softball. But on the other hand traditionally.
-'
Lash: You're talking about 3 different cages. That's the 3 different cages is that they fill
different needs?
Chris Polster: Three different cages, right. And now the third machine, the softball machine
would be set up for softball. Conceivably that's where there could be competition for instance
with the adults because that would be softball. We have no problems with adults using the
cages really. It's just the competition. We'd like to get our share at the times when we need
them in the evenings. So I think at the very least we'd like 55 foot cages.
Manders: How high are they?
Chris Polster: 12 feet. That can go up to a minimum of 10. Again, these are kind of
standards that are established. Not necessarily preferences but standards. There are 10 foot
24
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,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
cages and there are 12 foot cages. But for the younger kids, certainly 10 feet would be
acceptable. For the older kids, I would be a little concerned about safety at 10 feet. But it's
possible to have the three different size cages for instance.
Manders: So is the fencing on top or the netting?
Chris Polster: It will be fenced on top as well. Inside there are options. You can have a net
on the inside also of the cage...back of the fence from the inevitable abuse that fencing will
take from bats and balls and that kind of thing. I guess I'm not as familiar with the
technology maybe that's available.
Berg: It seems like if you had that netting, then the inside would be a little bit safer situation
for balls coming off quite so hard.
Chris Polster: Well it'd sure be safer for the person at the pitching machine. And for any
space. Well we definitely would have netting over the bat so if there's foul balls going up,
it's going to soften the blow and just drop down as opposed to bounce down. But I think it's
not only better, you're right. It's not only better for the...but probably the safety issue as well.
,....
Roeser: I don't know why I still begin to think that, isn't this going to require someone out
there to manage this thing? Are you going to have to have a person out there.
Hoffman: If it was operated by the Athletic Association, they'd have to have their coaches
there. If the city was in fact the owner of it, owned and operated it for practice, then staffing
would have to be a part of it. There would be a liability issue there. You just can't allow
people to go in there.
Roeser: Yeah, you couldn't let them open and let anybody use them obviously.
Chris Polster: That's not an unusual situation though. We've managed that issue with School
Districts and gyms. It definitely would require some creativity and some management
decisions and that kind of thing.
Berg: You'd have to have some sort of monitor system like...you have to have somebody
responsible.
Chris Polster: Right. And I guess I would speak on behalf of the CAA. That would be a
responsibility of, in my opinion, using organization. If it's, whether it's an adult softball team,
they would have to be responsible. That's why you assign it out so you'd know who is
responsible for that key and that cage at any given time. For basketball what we do is we
,.....
25
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
......"
sign out a key down at Chaska Community Center when we want to use the High School
basketball practice and we bring the key back when we're done. And we're responsible for
that.
Berg: I'm not saying it's an insurmountable problem. It isn't at all but if you have 4 different
groups using it 4 consecutive hours, I can see a logistical nightmare in terms of, well he had
the key. No, she took it.
Chris Polster: Well as the CAA, well again. That would be a government I guess issue on
what the discipline was. We would expect and we would set up a discipline ourselves. What
we have is essential field managers when we're running the CAA out there. We have
supervisors managing fields basically and it would be the supervisor's responsibility and that
would be a volunteer position, like everything else in the CAA. We'd be creating a
volunteer...responsibility of that...
Berg: Todd, does the permanency of these eliminate any chance to move those fences if they
ever had to be? Or if we ever decided we wanted to.
Hoffman: You can still do that. It just makes it that more cumbersome.
Berg: And they'd have to be moved, right. The cages would have to be moved, is that
correct?
-'
Hoffman: Right.
Andrews: We've done it before. Do it again. Well we need to take action or we'll be here
until the wee hours of the night.
Chris Polster: Is lights a separate issue then after this one?
Berg: I'd like to do them separately.
Andrews: I think we need to do it separately or that just makes it harder to make a decision
so. Fred, why don't we start with you. Keep our comments as brief as possible.
Berg: Well, I think you've heard all of mine. I don't see any demonstrable point or reason at
this point to not go ahead and put them in.
Andrews: Okay, Jim.
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""" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Manders: My biggest concern is putting them in there and then moving them but it's been
done before so it can be done again.
Roeser: Yeah, I have no problem with putting them in either. The cages.
Andrews: My concern is management of the facility. I think it's going to.
Roeser: And you say you can work that out, right.
Chris Polster: We have to. You will come up with the disciplines and it's our responsibility,
I assume that would be a part of the contingency.
Andrews: I like the idea that we're enhancing our facility so.
Meger: I guess ditto everything. I think we'd be foolish to not take up the opportunity to
work in conjunction on some facilities.
Lash: Yep.
",.....
Andrews: Okay. Make a motion if you agree and let's get it done here.
Lash: I move that we accept, I don't even know how to say this.
Andrews: Just do it.
Lash: Entering into an agreement with the CAA for them to donate 3 batting cages to be
installed at Lake Ann Park between Fields #1 and #2. And that, do I have to say anything
more than that?
Andrews: That's good enough for now.
Berg: Second.
Hoffman: ...inclusive of the machines?
Andrews: Inclusive of the machines, yes.
Hoffman: And design, we have concern over the 12 foot heights?
Lash: It will meet staffs recommendation, how about that?
,'-'
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
-..",tll"
Berg: How tall are the fences around the field now, just for a point of reference.
Hoffman: 6 feet. It'd have to be higher for adult softball. That's the max height for a pitch
so...if adults have the opportunity to use these. Management of that facility, it's going to be
used other than by the Athletic Association. There's going to be an issue. If you have this
thing within your Chanhassen Recreation Center where you could have staff continuity at all
times, I would not see checking this thing out on an hourly basis. The City of Chanhassen
Park and Recreation Department. When I go back to call the City Attorney and talk about,
you know we have a somewhat complex piece of machinery here and then we're going to
allow citizens to go in and operate it. They're going to say, no way. It's got to be an
approved training person. If we're going to have a training program and training people on
how to operate this machine, that's not going to happen so just so the commission is well
aware that there are going to be, in my opinion, severe limitations on how this thing gets used
on down the road.
Andrews: That throws some water on it.
Berg: No it doesn't because I think our consistent policy has been that we look at what's
good for kids first most of the time and this is, if CAA is willing to assume some
responsibility, I'm assuming that can be done. We're doing this for the right age group as far
as I'm concerned.
~
Andrews: My guess is if 5 years down the road we decide that a batting cage should be
moved across the road, I don't think the cost would be prohibitive to do it so.
Chris Polster: Can I make one more comment?
Andrews: Sure. Briefly.
Chris Polster: Well, it just might be interesting to you. First of all I don't think we need to
have the cages higher than 12 feet for softball because very few pitchers practicing softball
pitch at regulation. They're just trying to get it and I think it would be the same in the cages.
The other thing is, there is other technology or other management ideas for this and that is
paid batting cages as well. We have no opposition to making batting cages coin operated
batting cages for instance. Again, you could use it on a reservation system in the sense that
well, the CAA has blocked off and they get to use it so to speak but if you have a coin
operated system of some kind out there, then it's a matter of leaving the cages open.
Andrews: I guess the other alternative is.
28
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"... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Lash: I think we're going to have to try this a year and see what kind of things crop up and
we'll deal with them as they crop up and then we'll end up with a policy for next year.
Chris Polster: And you can convert, by the way, to coin operated machines if you would
choose to do that in the future.
Andrews: We also have the alternative of the padlock if it doesn't work so.
Lash: I assumed it would be locked. It would be locked, would it not?
Chris Polster: Oh yeah. Well again security, you know more about it and Todd knows more
probably about that than I do. Security. His concerns are our concerns as well. No question
about it but he's got more expertise than I do about how to solve that.
Andrews: Okay, Ian moved. Did anybody second?
Berg: I did.
,.... Andrews: Any further discussion?
Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Pam and Recreation Commission enter into an
agreement for the CAA (Chanhassen Athletic Association) to donate 3 batting cages to be
installed at Lake Ann Pmk between Fields #1 and #2. All voted in favor and the motion
eanied.
Andrews: Thank you CAA. Now lights. Did I miss part of the discussion there or where do
we stand on who's got money and who doesn't on lights?
Lash: Who's on first.
Chris Polster: To address that issue. This is, it's an issue that CAA has tabled for the simple
reason that I screwed up and didn't understand the process well enough. We need fields and
we need lights and we're not going to get them this year so we made a motion to table that
$12,000.00. We can't get those lights for $12,000.00 anymore either so the funding is not
there for this year but what we would like to do I guess, is start the process that I should
have started a long time ago and that's to go through the Park Commission to have them
approve, being approved the ability to have lights. And if the Park Commission says well
yeah, we can have lights there. Then I guess what we would do is go back and address the
issue with the CAA as far as refunding it. For your park you may say, well I don't know
what you would say but we need fields and we are getting fields. I know in 2 years and
,.....
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
...."
everything, but they aren't really Little League fields. They're not for the older kids. They're
more for the softball kids and younger kids and we need fields somehow and...or light them,
one or the other and I guess that's really the point we're at now. First of all we'd like to get
Park Commission approval to light the fields at Lake Ann. At least for Little League.
Speaking for Little Leaguers, and that would be Lake Ann #2 and #3. If you approve the
concept of lighting fields. And I guess that's where I would be.
Andrews: When do you need an answer from us? I mean is that something we need to do
tonight?
Chris Polster: Well it's just something that, if I understand from Todd, it won't be budgeted
by the City Council until November, if that answers your question, so I'm in no particular
rush to know anything.
Lash: The only way it would be budgeted by City Council in November would be if we put
it on our proposed budget for '96.
Chris Polster: Right, exactly.
Lash: And we can't say tonight if we'd even consider budgeting a penny towards that.
...."f
Chris Polster: I understand that. My point I guess is, the question was when do I need an
answer. I've got until November to have.
Andrews: I'll make this easy for you. I'd like to table this and come back to it.
Hoffman: July or August.
Chris Polster: Thank you. And on behalf of the kids, thanks.
Andrews: Thank you for coming.
RECOMMENDATION TO FSTABLISH TASK FORCE. PROPOSED. PARKLAND
ACOUISmON AND DEVEWPMENT REFERENDUM.
Andrews: Todd, do you want to just quick summarize that? I think you're looking for
volunteers. Is that what we're looking for here?
Hoffman: Simply to move the process forward. I'm recommending that the Commission
approach the Park and Recreation Commission...City Council through an agenda item to
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
establish a task force to investigate the proposed parkland acquisition and development
referendum. I've given a suggested composition of the Mayor or City Council member. Two
Park and Recreation Commission members. A member from the Planning Commission.
Chamber of Commerce representative and then 6 at large members, based on the distribution
map of the quadrants of this city. That being the central city and the western portion of the
city and the southern portion of the city.
Andrews: Well in order to expedite, I'll so move that we take that action.
Roeser: Second.
Andrews: Is there any further discussion of this action?
Manders: It looks like a good layout to me.
Andrews moved, Roeser seconded that the Pam and Recreation Commission recommend to
establish a task force for the proposed parldand acquisition and development referendum to be
appointed by the City Council. All voted in favor and the motion canied.
,....
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A lWO STORY BUILDING (RICHFIELD BANK AND
TRUST). wrrn A TOTAL OF 12.166 SOUARE FEET ON PROPERTY ZONED PUD AND
WCATED AT mE SoumwEST CORNER OF WEST 78m STREET AND KERBER
BOULEVARD. WT 1. BWCK3. BURDICKPARKADDmON. RICHFIELD STATE
AGENCY. INC.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report.
Lash: So moved.
Roeser: Second.
Andrews: It's been motion and seconded. Any discussion?
Lash moved, Roeser seconded that the Pam and Recreation Commission recommend the Oty
Council require full pam and trail fees be collected per city onlinance in lieu of land decision
and/or trail construction from Richfield State Agency, Inc. All voted in favor and the motion
canied.
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 1.14 ACRES INTO 2 WTS ON PROPERTY
ZONED &SF. AND weATED NORm OF MELODY HILL AND NORm OF mE
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
....."
MINNETONKA MIDDLE SCHOOL 2220 MEWDY HILL ROAD. GOLMEN HOFF
GOLMEN ADDmON.
Todd Hoffman presented die staff report on this item.
Berg: So moved.
Lash: Second.
Andrews: There's been a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
Berg moved, Lash seconded dlat die Pam and Recreation Commission recommend to die Gty
Council dlat full pam and trail fees be collected per city onlinance in lieu of land dedication
and/or trail construction for die Golmen Hoff Golmen Addition. All voted in favor and the
motion canied.
REZONING REOUEST TO REZONE 16.34 ACRES OF PROPERlY ZONED RR. RURAL
RESIDENTIAL TO RSF. RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY. PRELIMINARY PLAT OF
16.34 ACRES INTO 19 SINGLE FAMD..Y WTS AND A V ARJANCE TO ALWW A 50
FOOT WIDE RIGHT-OF-WAY WCATED soum OF LAKE LUCY ROAD. 1471. -"
POINTE LAKE LUCY WEST. MICHAEL BYRNE.
Todd Hoffman presented die staff report on dlis item.
Andrews: If the applicant wishes to make a statement, please do. I think this is a routine
item so. We're rolling now.
Lash: So moved.
Andrews: There is a motion. Is there a second?
Roeser: Second.
Andrews: We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
Lash moved, Roeser seconded dlat die Pam and Recreation Commission recommend to die
City Council dlat full pam and trail fees be paid per city ordinance in lieu of land dedication
and/or trail construction for Pointe Lake Lucy West. All voted in favor and die motion
canied.
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,..., Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Michael Byrne: I just have a question. On that subdivision, which may be 18 or 19 lots.
There exists an existing home as a part of that. Would...investigation whether or not that
lot.. .
Andrews: Is that lot being, you'd have to direct that to Todd. The question is, is the existing
lot being charged or is it only the new lots that are charged?
Hoffman: ...present lot?
Michael Byrne: Yeah. Right now the Tichey property is the home of...he's selling the south
5 acres.
Hoffman: If it's incorporated into the plat and remains as a residence, it will not be charged.
PROGRAM REPORTS:
A. FEBRUARY FESTIVAL EV ALUA nON.
r-
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on the February Festival evaluation and asked the
commission for any questions or comments.
Roeser: W eliI'm pretty upset. You didn't even mention my favorite thing in the whole
festival was the fun ski. I realize we only had 8 people.
Ruegemer: ... we asked about that when we were doing this...
Meger: I would only add as far as recommendations for '96 that we're real careful with the
printing of the tickets. This year we had the problem with the used tickets...
Ruegemer: That was...
Roeser: What was that?
Ruegemer: Oh the tickets were numbered consecutively between the youth and the adult and
they should have been numbered between 001 to 2,000 for adults and 2,001 to 3,000 for kids
so that was my faux pas and I apologize for that.
Lash: I had one. I overhead a comment, and it wasn't even somebody who went but I mean
you get jumped about everything when you're in this position and it was, why in the world do
,....
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
......"
they have it at Lake Susan? There's no fish in Lake Susan. So I tried to come up with a
reasonable explanation but I was wondering, is that part of the DNR program?
Andrews: It's a fundraiser for us isn't it?
Lash: Does that lake get stocked?
Hoffman: There's fish in Lake Susan. You don't catch a whole lot of fish...
Lash: But they said something about how many people were fishing, you know 1,000 people
fishing in 1,500 holes and 10 fish were caught or something. 8 fish.
Hoffman: The weekend before I fished in the Victoria one and 2 fish were caught. You fish
at some with 10,000 people and 100 fish are caught. It's the location is why it's there. It's
very conducive to the layout of the festival. Putting it on Lake Ann was another option but
we had to use Lake Ann for...
Andrews: It's an excuse to have fun.
Lash: Well and that was what I said. We use Lake Ann for everything else and it's a nice
set up and that's why it's there. Whether there's fish in the lake or not, we don't care. It's just
set up that way.
..."",
Roeser: And it's fun.
Lash: Well but I just wondered if that lake is part of the stocking program.
Roeser: There's fish in that lake. There are fish that bite.
Andrews: Okay, any more comments on the festival? I think it's been a really great addition
to our rec program so.
Manders: The fireworks were excellent.
Andrews: Yes. I heard many comments about the fireworks. Even from many people that
lived quite a ways away.
Berg: A lot of people in Eden Prairie told me how much they appreciated the fireworks.
B. EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT.
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on the Easter Egg Candy Hunt.
Manders: Is this the same thing that you had last year?
Ruegemer: Yes.
Roeser: Have you got your rabbit suit?
Manders: Yeah, there's some rabbit suit?
Ruegemer: Would you like to volunteer for it?
Manders: No. I just wanted to move that we have Dave Huffman do that.
Lash: Is that a motion?
Andrews: I think we should designate Dave Huffman, the official Chanhassen Easter Bunny.
r- Ruegemer: This will be the last year too that that event will be at the Elementary School in
Chanhassen. It will move next year to Bluff Creek.
c. 4m OF JULY CELEBRATION ENTERTAINMENT CONTRACT. mE HI-TOPS.
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: I'd move that we accept the contract for the Hi-Tops for Monday, July 3, 1995.
Berg: Second.
Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Pam and Recreation Commission accept the contract for
the Hi-Tops to penonn at the 1995 Fourth of July Celebration on Monday, July 3rd from 7:00
to 11:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the motion camed.
D. SENIOR MENS CLUB PROJECT.
Dawn Lemme presented the staff report on this item.
Manders: One question. What does a bat house look like?
Roeser: Yeah, what's a bat house look like?
r-
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
....",I
Lemme: I'll draw it.
Hoffman: It's got a back, it's got a front, it's got a roof. It's open in the bottom and then it
has, if you look at a front view, it has boards which are nailed in there.
Andrews: It has a walkout basement.
Hoffman: So it's open and they walk up in between these boards and grab on. So they hang
onto these boards that are in there and you've got the roof on it. It's just covered and they
walk up in there.
Roeser: They actually use them?
Hoffman: Sure. Put them in a location, you know underneath an eave on a building, like the
picnic shelter or a maintenance building or a sheltered spot is best. Underneath an eave is the
most productive site for it and they're there.
Lash: That was my question is do you have some ideas of where you're going to put them?
Hoffman: Lake Susan. Lake Ann. Public buildings up here at the City Hall. They're very
. .
mconsplCUOUS.
-"
Lash: W ell it will be fun on the 4th of July when we're all out there dancing and the bats
will come swooping down. All the women will run screaming.
Hoffman: Some of those men live by those wives tales, let me tell you.
Lemme: I understand the document about that and...
Lash: Did anybody else see the article in the Sunday paper a few weeks ago about the
mosquito control in relation to the letter that Mondale had written to you. I thought that was
interesting.
Meger: Did I say this last meeting already?
Lash: Oh. I'm having a flashback I guess. I thought that was neat. I thought ah, we're on
the cutting edge one more time.
Lemme: And to add to that, the Seniors Mens Club is also going to be handing out the free
trees at Arbor Day.
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,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTA nONS:
Roeser: One thing I was thinking about today when, you know like Richfield Bank and all
these businesses that we pass so quickly over. Is there some way we could recommend that
they put bike racks in front of the buildings or if they're, you know when we approve these
things, why not suggest. There is a lack of bike racks in this town, in front of the business
places. You look at the bank up here and allover. There's no place to put a bike and you do
see people riding up and. I was wondering if when we pass these things, we could just say,
we would ask that they consider putting up a bike rack. Or recommend putting up a bike
rack.
Andrews: Write a note to the Chamber on that. That affects all the businesses downtown. I
think we are attempting to create more of a pedestrian downtown and that's good for business.
It's good for business.
Lash: Well especially at some of these places where the kids go.
Roeser: Well yeah, and the bike is, I notice that Chan Bank a lot, because I'm up there
~ picking up Elaine every day and I see kids riding up on their bikes and they don't, there's no
place to put a bike you know. It just would be a good idea. The ones in the shopping center
are kind of out in the parking lot, which I don't know if that's a good idea.
Andrews: They need to right up next to the building. They really do.
Roeser: Yeah. I think they should be.
Andrews: Any others?
Berg: Yeah. I have a question that came up at Community Ed. Do we have, or what kind
of control do we have over scheduling the District gymnasium when school is out and on
weekends? Or do we have anything to say about that or is that going to be strictly
Community Ed?
Hoffman: The new elementary school?
Berg: Yeah. Not our half but their half?
Hoffman: At present no...negotiations or...have been entered into by the City and the School
District. It would operate as any other gymnasium but it is our intent to facilitate use and
scheduling of that additional gymnasium by the city...
,.....
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Berg: Okay. I have the distinct impression Community Ed feels they're going to have
scheduling control of that so you should probably know that.
Hoffman: ...but I can understand, Community Ed has voiced frustration with at least, I
believe they're beginning to get frustrated that they feel we're just putting them off and
putting them off on these issues but the City of Chanhassen Park and Recreation Department
has always endorsed, embraced the attitude of cooperation and I think the Park Commission is
aware of that and I think perhaps at times that's why we get hounded so much for so many
expanded opportunities. Cooperative ventures because we are in the building and that's not a
problem but we have a lot of issues to go ahead and settle out as a part of that operation of
that building, and the City Council is of the distinct opinion that they have invested $2 1/2 to
$3 million in a recreation center for the City of Chanhassen and when they open the doors,
they want to open the doors to the community as a whole, 276, 112. The whole issue so
Community Education will not have their space as dedicated to them in that building this first
year of operation and Bud's probably aware of that and some...may be aware of that so they
approached this asking for the space in the city portion of the building. Well, we're not going
to be of the ability to go ahead and offer our dedicated to the School District when the City
wants to open a recreation center on it's dollars for the first go around. They will be in our
building every day. We believe that we will be in their building every day. But that's the,
Chanhassen Park and Recreation staffs opinion is, there's a lot of issues which the front line,
even a mid or upper level manager person at Community Ed is not in discussion with...at this
time. There's some obligations over indoor and exterior maintenance and if the city enters
into a maintenance contract to maintain the entire exterior of that building, we will certainly
do it for a trade on the inside. I cannot see that, not totally, not clear being hypocritical on
this issue because I was very opposed to the High School and Chaska Park and Rec. The
City of Chaska wanted complete authorization to utilize those fields in our school after hours,
and during the summer simply because the school was going to use the facilities at Pioneer
Park during the day. And so then that excluded the city of Chanhassen residents. You know
they're another step or two down the notch in trying to get space at the new high school,
either after hours, after school hours or over the weekend. So again this is a philosophical
issue which the Park...as we enter into joint agreements, you'll be getting involved in that and
the Council will be getting involved in that and it's their policy...carry a lot of emotion along
with them as they go along. It's also my intention to bring in the Chanhassen Elementary
School as a part of that. The School District doesn't want to do that as well, and we... issue
that the city mows the school property and there's no written contract that we stop this
spring...but there's no written record that says the City of Chanhassen shall do that and in
return for that they shall receive this so it's going to be a whole issue to be discussed between
the School District and the City.
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"".... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
Berg: I think fairly soon in terms of establishing some sort of policy concerning Bluff Creek
because they're making all kinds of assumptions.
Hoffman: Correct. Point well taken. It's been two meetings in a row.
Andrews: So we have to get ahead on that one.
Berg: Yes we do. We have to be proactive.
Andrews: We have to be aggressive.
Berg: Yep.
Andrews: Just a topic I think I mentioned to Todd briefly, which is a minor item but it has
to do with soccer, of course. There was a recommendation made from the U.S. Soccer
Federation that all soccer goals much be attached to the ground before they will allow a goal
to be played, so referees would not allow a game to proceed without that so I mentioned that
to Todd. That the City will have to take care of that with any fields that games are played
I"'" on. As far as practice fields, that's a separate issue. I guess I'd recommend we'd take the
same action with those but it wouldn't be required.
Ruegemer: Jim, is there any examples of these anchors?
Andrews: Of course not, because that would be a liability issue if they did that. But I know
that Soccer Express which sells some portable goals for one of the companies. I forget the
name of it. They have some kits but stakes or U bolt type stakes would work.
Manders: What's their reasoning behind this?
Andrews: Well the main reason for taking this action is if the goals tip over, there have been
deaths and serious injuries so it's not so much a collision factor as a tip over situation, which
sounds kind of funny but that's the thing so, like I said, that just came down from the USSF
and that's national policy so.
Manders: I've got one question for Todd. This lake, how available is this to the citizens of
Chanhassen? Is it?
Hoffman: Free of charge. It's been handed out at special events. It was handed out at the...
Lash: I've gotten it in the mail before a couple of years ago.
,.....
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
-'
Ruegemer: They're also given out at the boat houses, or the gate houses.
Manders: It'd be great if everybody read this because there's a lot of good information on
here.
Andrews: Any other commission presentations?
ADMINISTRA TWE PRESENTATIONS:
A. SUMMARY OF COMMUNITY CENTER TOURS. BECKER. NEW BRIGHTON. AND
MAPLEWOOD.
Lemme: 1 was provided a brief paragraph here...tours of three separate facilities. All three
which were larger than what we have in mind here in Chanhassen but really gave Todd and I
a lot to chew on. We collected information from all three of the sites. We're looking for
information on all types of operational things from maintenance of facilities to job
descriptions to, you name it. Fees. Hours of service. We were looking at all different
things. Talking about things that, what would you do again. What would you do differently
if you had the change to do things again? What would you not have in here? What would
you add and that sort of thing. Did see the things within our own recreation center that we're -"
going to try to maybe remedy. 1 don't know if Todd would like to speak to that at all.
Hoffman: One issue was wood floors. They had problems with wood floors in a variety of
the settings so we've addressed that very specifically with our contractor. The Becker center
is a unique little community center. 1,500 people in the town proper. 5,000 people in the
township. NSP pays 95% of the taxes so when they have a referendum and people get to
vote whether or not they should put up 5% of the money...So nice town to work in.
Lash: 1 think 1 want to move there.
Hoffman: You can buy a wooded lot on the golf course for $20,000.00 and there's one...
liking the sense of community and they just hop on 1-94 and get to the city...
Andrews: 1 think we're going to need some guidance from both Todd and Dawn here about
establishing policies for this community center. I'm concerned that it's going to be a much
bigger project than we're really expecting it to be and the situation about fees. About who's
going to pay and who doesn't have to pay and who gets a reduced rate and all these sorts of
situations, 1 can see us spending many long hours on that. 1 guess my preference personally
would be that you come with some examples. You know the A, the B, the C and we kind of
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,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
choose one to follow but if we sit here and try to bang out something from scratch, we're
going to be here til Christmas time.
Lemme: That was part of the reason for these tours...certain things work well at certain
places. What may work well at Maplewood for one thing. I was doing some comparisons
already on fees and probably one of the fitness programs...each place has some different ways
of doing things and there may be, there probably will be some changes along the way that
we're going to have to address. But obviously we want to try to take all these people's things
into consideration before establishing...
Andrews: I guess I'd appreciate a little more guidance and sometimes we're just sort of
offered like, here are the four things that we saw and there's not a lot of comment made. I
guess personally I'd appreciate more comment being made as that, we feel like this is the
solution that we think would be the best to work with or a combination of this and this. And
we probably need to get moving on this. I don't know if you're thinking Mayor June here
but I guess this should be, this facility is to be ready this fall, is that correct?
Hoffman: September.
r-
Andrews: We've got to have this all in place before then because people will be lining up to
use it by then already and wanting to know what they have to pay so.
Hoffman: We get a call a day or two on whether people should discontinue their membership
to Flagship. No pool? This is no community center.
Lash: You're right.
Berg: You're right, it's a rec center.
Hoffman: Good thing that name changed. And we will also be submitting additional articles
for the paper. People are not picking up on this thing. They don't know what's going on so...
Manders: Would you anticipate that this is going to be a break even proposition in terms of
the income and operating expense?
,....
Hoffman: It'd be very difficult in this setting. We'll have 9 to 12 permanent part time
employees that are working the front desk and it's a revenue producing facility. Where it will
be...50%, 75% cost recovery... We're opening for 3 months this first year and we have to have
~e budget set for the full next year before we even open the doors so we don't have an
t '11 k y...so
I WI ta e us a year and a half before we even know what's X, Y, and Z...
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
...."
Andrews: So we should be asking for the moon then on the budget.
Hoffman: Well we did and...
Berg: I'm anxious to hear what you have to say about Maplewood because as luck would
have it, I was up there about 2 weeks ago. It was very user friendly. I really liked
Maplewood a lot.
Lash: Where was the one we went to? Shoreview?
Andrews: Shoreview was really nice. I'm glad, we do need to sort of get expectations in line
with reality here and I don't think we've done that. I also, I am concerned about getting these
policies in place and what are you recommending as far as getting this on our agenda and
getting moving on it?
Hoffman: All of the policies...the May 25th meeting we can address it. We'll put them all
together...May 25th...
Andrews: We've got money in the budget for, you know there's some kitchen facilities there.
Do we have money in the budget to buy supplies for the kitchen? I mean things like that. .....",
Or are we going to provide supplies for a kitchen?
Hoffman: The kitchen utensils themselves were part of the budget. The major appliances.
The other stuff, there's $172,000.00 which was originally $161,000.00 which was originally in
the general operating budget. That was cut as a part of the budget process last year. That
number was put right into the fund for the city/school cooperative project so all that initial
equipment, the 1995 budget for that site will be funded out of the tax increment financing
costs.
Lemme: We don't really have an official kitchen...
Andrews: A kitchenette, right. I understand.
Lash: Is there space over there that you guys were thinking of moving your offices there?
No?
Hoffman: There's a reception area with one small office for the operation.
Andrews: Very good.
...."I
42
"""'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28, 1995
B. DIRECfOR'S REPORT.
Todd Hoffman outlined the Director's Report to the Park and Recreation Commission.
ADMINISlRATIVE SECflON:
Lash: I saw something that came in the mail about some meeting this Friday that was out in
Bloomington, that kind of for a while, the way it was going, I forget what it was. It was
about.
Hoffman: Land acquisition?
Lash: Yeah, land preservation and, does that ring a bell? Yeah, this Friday.
Hoffman: Oh, the Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge?
Lash: Well that could be.
JI"""" Andrews: I think it was a Federal land grab group of some sort. Was it a postcard?
Lash: No, it was a letter. I'm thinking it was at Radisson South. I toyed with going for a
while because I thought it sounded kind of interesting and then I decided to pass. I'd like,
these sites that we kind of drove past tonight down in that general area. If we're forming this
task force, can you do a checking into those three that we're looking at there at least size wise
or availability wise. Price wise.
Andrews: That one along Galpin there?
Lash: The one on CR 17.
Andrews: Yeah, I'd like to look at that one aggressively. Anything out of the Administrative
Section anybody? Any comments?
Manders: A lot of interesting material.
Andrews: Yep. Is there a motion to adjourn?
Roeser moved, Manders seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
canied. The meeting was adjourned.
".....
43
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - March 28. 1995
...",
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
....."I
44
.....",