PRC 1994 04 26
""..., CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 26, 1994
The City Council and Park and Recreation Commission met at 5:30 p.m. at the Lake Ann
Park Shelter for an Arbor Day Ceremonial Tree Planting and then back to the Council
Chambers for a joint meeting.
Chairman Andrews called the regular meeting to order at 7 :30 p.rn.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Dave Huffman, Jim Andrews, Jim Manders, Jane Meger
and Fred Berg
MEMBERS ABSENT: Ron Roeser
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Supervisor and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor
,....
APPROV AL OF MINUTES: Meger moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the
Park and Recreation Commission dated March 22, 1994 as presented. All voted in favor and
the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENT A TIONS:
Andrew Olson: I'm Andrew Olson, 1890 West Lake Court and my concern is parkland
immediately...on CR 17. There are holding ponds being developed there and...as far as runoff
water and they're getting silt washed into the creek that runs into Lake Susan and getting
more sediment in there. I've got some pictures if you'd like to see it but it's just the barriers
that are up are being washed away or...is doing absolutely nothing as far as preserving the
grassland down there.
Andrews: Okay. I think if you would give that to Todd, that'd be something we'd refer to
City Engineering Todd?
Hoffman: Correct. Yeah, they can take a look at those. I've been following that. Jasper
Development is building a townhome development there at the entrance to the Lake Susan
Hills and when they came in their holding pond is located to the north, next to Lake Susan
Community Park. There's some open space which is in there which acts as a buffer directly
to the creek. At that time, in speaking with Mr. Jasper and meeting with engineering and the
applicant and planning staff; I voiced a very strong concern about the runoff which would
occur there throughout the development of the property and they assured us that that would
,.... be taken care of. I've watched the problems, as Mr. Olson has over the last month or so.
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I've documented in letters...memo back up to planning and engineering. Schoell and Madson
specifically who does the on site visits, site inspections of the projects which are...city.
They've...what I can see in two subsequent phases of bolstering or reefing up the erosion
control that's there but it's still failing. Not doing the job. There is a silt delta which is
being graded. It does not have me in a very good mood either. So I did a follow-up with
engineering. Dave Hempel will be speaking to the Watershed to talk about what corrective
measures should be taken for the damage which has occurred. Should we be taking the silt
back out of there? Would that do more damage than good? All of those type of things so it
has been an ongoing problem and one...
.....",
Andrews: Okay. That item will be handled then. Are there any other visitor presentations at
this time? Seeing none, let's move on to item 3.
PRELIMINARY PLAT OF 25.95 ACRES INTO 9 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS WITH
VARIANCES ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF; CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT; WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR
CONSTRUCTION AND MITIGATION OF A WETLAND; AND VACATION OF
RIGHT -OF-WAY LOCATED ON MINNEW ASHT A A VENUE. THE PROPERTY IS
LOCATED SOUTH OF SANDPIPER LANE AND WEST OF PIPER RIDGE LANE.
NEUMANN SUBDIVISION.
Public Present:
Name
Address
-'
Dean Erickson
Paul Prenevost
Mike & Sue Faulk
Olive W. Neumann
Arnold & Anne Weirnerskirch
Art Johnsen
Harry D. Peters
Ken Adolf
Chuck Rosenberger
Jim Josin
2762 Piper Ridge Lane
6351 Minnewashta Woods Drive
2791 Piper Ridge Lane
2841 Sandpiper Trail
2831 Sandpiper Trail
Johnsen-Bormes, Realtors, Deephaven
18800 Ridgewood Road, Deephaven
Schoell & Madson, Inc.
2772 Piper Ridge Lane
3890 Maple Shores Drive
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Andrews: I'd like to ask the applicant if he or she would like to tell us more about this
development Please step forward and proceed to do that.
Arnold Weimerskirch: My name is Arnold Weimerskirch. I'm Mrs. Neumann's son-in-law
and Mrs. Neumann has owned this property for 60 years. It's been in her hands all that time
and it has been a rural area: Gradually taxes kept going up and I think we've now
approached the time when we decided it's time to develop the property. We have had the
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~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
engineering firm of Schoell and Madson do the preliminary plat for us. We've looked at all
of the wetland regulations and all the ordinances in effect and think we have a good
comprehensive plan...
Andrews: Do you have any other comments you'd like to make?
Arnold Weimerskirch: No, not from me. Anybody else?
Andrews: Okay. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to step forward and make
any comment? Again, as Todd had mentioned, our body here is considering the park and
recreation aspects of this. We really have no input whatsoever on wetland mitigation or
suitability issues here. If you would like to step forward and make any comments that would
help us about our park and recreation decisions, please come forward, state your name and
make your comments. Okay. If at any time later during our discussion you wish to step
forward, please do so. We'll just take any comments that there may be here on the
commission here. Let's start with Fred.
Berg: I have very little to say. It seems to me to be very straight forward.
II""'"
Andrews: Okay, Jim.
Manders: Same view. I really don't have a comment.
Andrews: I also agree. This looks like a simple issue. Any other?
Huffman: Pass it on.
Andrews: Okay, is there a motion to take action?
Berg: So moved.
Andrews: And your motion is?
Berg: That we recommend that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City
Council that they accept full park and trail dedication fees for the Neumann Subdivision in
lieu of parkland dedication and/or trail construction. One-third of the park and trail cash
contribution shall be paid contemporaneously with the f1ling of the subdivision plat. The
balance calculated as follows, shall be paid at the time building permits are issue. And the
rate in effect for residential' single family property when the building permit is issued minus
the amount previously paid.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
....",
Andrews: Is there a second to that?
Lash: I'll second.
Andrews: Okay. Any more discussion?
Berg moved, Lash seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to
the City Council that they accept full park and trail dedication fees for the Neumann
Subdivision in lieu of parkland dedication and/or trail construction. One-third of the
park and trail cash contribution shall be paid contemporaneously with the filing of the
subdivision plat. The balance calculated as follows, shall be paid at the time building
permits are issue. And the rate in effect for residential single family property when the
building permit is issued minus the amount previously paid. Current residential single
family park and trail fee rates are $900.00 and $300.00 per home, respectively. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Andrews: Item number 4 on our agenda was an update of the comprehensive plan. That
item has been pulled which brings us to item 5.
PROGRAM REPORTS:
...."
A. ADULT BASKETBALL LEAGUE EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: I'll just go through each one real briefly. As we're coming obviously to the end
of our fall and winter activities...evaluations. This year we had 12 teams again on our adult
basketball program. That really involved...until we get the new school site in 1995. Right
now with our limited facilities in District #112 and some other locations, we're really limited
on the number of teams that we can put into our program. Basically the leagues were...and
there's always some comments on the officials and everything else and we kind of have to
roll with the punches on that one and everybody's opinion is different on quality of officials.
What I try to do on a yearly basis is try to...and try to emphasis consistency to our officials
and that's about all we can do. But we need to look at that on an annual basis. There's just
some other general comments. Some of the evaluations that did come back...so basically
what I'm going to do is kind of open it up to if anybody had any questions of all the leagues.
I think everything is pretty straight forward with the evaluations and that. We made some
revenue...makes us happy and helps us in our self supporting budgets so we're quite happy
with that. So if there's any questions I'll entertain those at this time.
Berg: I've got a couple. First of all, who are the officials you're using? Where are you
getting them from?
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,......, Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Ruegemer: We're getting them through either returning officials that we had last year. We
ran ads in the papers. Called different neighboring communities. If there's anybody looking
to pick up some games. A lot of the officials that we had are officiating high school.
They're officiating junior college. It's just when you get down in that, this type of a
recreational league, a lot of the players are old frustrated jocks that don't have what they used
to have and a lot of that is...and some of the officials are getting to where we need to take a
look at too as far as some are a little bit wise...
Berg: That was a comment made by an awful lot of the officials on the teams. Try to be
consistent.
Ruegemer: ...consistency more than anything else. As far as try to talking to the officials
and try to say...don't T up anybody just because. You know try to have some sympathy
maybe to a certain degree. You don't have to have somebody in your face.
Berg: Second question. This basketball referring association, would they provide officials
and what would the cost be?
,.... Ruegemer: The approximate cost in that would be about $18.00 per game per official and I
was paying $16.00 this year per game per official so that would see a slight increase in the
fees but I think if we try to balance that out over my staff time that I had involved with,
because Dawn can contest to this, about every week, it's either Monday or Tuesday or they
call me up Wednesday morning, I can't make it for tonight and that was a major headache to
try to find somebody at that last minute. That puts some additional pressure on myself in
trying to get that...! have quite a few contacts with officials now but it's hard to somebody to
come in when you call them that day. And to come in for that night so that's just another
way that we can, we can take advantage of the service that can be provided to us you know
and that would free up by time and could concentrate on other...
Berg: You might get a little better caliber of official too if they had an association that they
had to be accountable to.
Ruegemer: We've done that in the past and I've gotten away from that about 2 years ago. I
wanted to lower the cost of the basketball fees but.
Lash: But that extra $2.00 might really cut back on the amount of flack you're taking. From
the comments that I read, in fact there was just about every sheet somebody was complaining
about the officiating.
I'"
Berg: Right. And a lot of them were the same complaints.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
....."
Ruegemer: Right, and really there isn't any indication you know, if you look at the
evaluations. Yeah, the referees, you know I never received a phone call all basketball season.
Huffman: What are the ages of the players in this league?
Ruegemer: It goes from 18-19 to the youngest all the way through 45. So there's a broad
range of people and all those people are...
Berg: Third question. I'm convinced there's a growing need for this. Has there been any
thought to adding a women's division?
Ruegemer: I haven't really had a whole lot of phone calls about that. With the growing
industry in town and that, it's certainly something we could take a look at.
Berg: I'd like to see us put out some sort of informational flier. Something that if we can
get the women involved too. They've been playing basketball now for 15 years. There's a
lot of women out there I think who would take advantage of this.
Andrews: At least put out, if interested contact us. I guess I want to make one comment too
about the cost of higher quality officials. You mentioned it's $16.00 versus $18.00. The
surplus of this program would easily cover that cost increase without a fee increase. I guess I
think we ought to try to do that.
...."
Ruegemer: That's really what I try to do throughout the course of the, you know I try to
maintain a fee for 3 years. That's kind of my magic goal is to try to maintain a fee in any of
the programs, whether it's for adult softball, adult basketball, for 3 years and try to kind of
cover that so it's consistent. So people aren't...constantly hopping up every year. It seems to
work out really well as far as for the softball leagues and everything and I think people are
used to seeing, that's kind of a useful tool too that the fees that are maintaining the same. I
think people feel a lot better about the programs too so we can certainly take a look at that
for next year.
Manders: Just a couple of comments. Your games are at the elementary here?
Ruegemer: No. The games are at the Chaska Middle School and the Community Center
down in Chaska.
Manders: So they're tied in with Chaska, okay.
J
Ruegemer: Yeah, it's a combined league between Chanhassen and Chaska but I am kind of
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,..., Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
coordinating the league.
Andrews: Let's move on to the Easter program.
B. EASTER PROGRAM EV ALVA TIONS.
Ruegemer: We're adding a program this year. Just for the calls that we received, I think
everybody was very pleased with the program. I did receive at least 3 phone calls and letters
that were just happier than all get out that we, that this program was offered. The looks on
these kids faces was just very rewarding when I hopped to the door and...so that's personal
testimony right there. And it was really well worth it and I even received a couple carrots
and the whole deal so it worked out great. As I said in the report, the memo said that we did
offer two time slots this year. By far our morning session was the most popular. I think with
nap time and everything getting in there. We had 40-41 baskets delivered in the morning
session and the remaining in the second half of the day. Total, I guess the numbers are here.
45 in the morning and 26 in the afternoon. We did over 71 baskets, 72 baskets this year.
For a fIrst year program, I think that was very well received and we're defInitely going to
offer this program next year and I can see us expanding our maximums too for each...but I
,...... think in going through our pilot year here, we really got a feel for it and what we can do.
And a lot of, some of the homes that we had gone to were a daycare facility. So we were
doing 6 to 8 baskets per household so that really picks up our...but yet that isn't any
additional stops. So we can really add more into that and maybe possibly expand the time.
Meger: That was a question that someone had asked me. If there was any thought to
expanding the times for those parents that aren't there during this time.
Ruegemer: Maybe go in the morning earlier and then later on in the afternoon?
Meger: Yeah.
Ruegemer: Sure. We can take a look at that. I think we gained a lot of experience going
through our first year.
Lash: This could open a can of worms but going to a daycare too. As long as everybody got
one. But say like 2 of the kids did not get one on...
Ruegemer: That happened this year as far as a daycare had called up and asked if they could
bring in a basket because some of the parents that were at the daycare didn't want to spend
the $5.00 to give a basket to have their kids get one when everybody else did so the daycare
,...,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
-'
provider did bring a basket of goodies in and I delivered a huge basket of something that they
could divide up so, you have to be concerned about that. We also carry an extra basket in
case...as a department we would be happy to pay for that just to have some kid be happy.
Lash: I think for $5.00, that's a great deal.
Ruegemer: You know for $5.00 it wasn't a whole lot of money to pay for the basket. That
thing was jam packed with goodies and programs in the sidewalk shop and bubbles and all
the items that kids really like.
Manders: Maybe I just glossed over that because I don't have any kids but was there much
publicity on this or was it in the paper or how did?
Ruegemer: Yeah, paper, newsletter...
Andrews: Word of mouth on this will be what will make it grow.
Ruegemer: That's exactly what's going to happen. When they saw the big furry bunny
hopping through the neighborhood, boy that's going to spread like wildfire next year.
-"
Lash: You're going to be doing it Monday thru Friday.
Ruegemer: Dawn said she's going to hop around next year so unless we get a commission
member, and we get a bigger suit too...And like Todd did say...seniors. We're really starting
to really use our seniors now as far as, they've helped us out tremendously on putting grass
in baskets and putting the different, sorting out candy and also they helped us a great deal on
this and we really couldn't have done it without them so we'd like to get them involved and
really a lot of the programs are vital...for our program. They're great to have around.
Meger: You could probably grab a Polaroid camera...and hop along with that. Okay, now
the bunny's here...
Ruegemer: Video cam and lots of pictures so it worked out nice. Any other additional
questions on that? It will be continuing again next year so.
C. ARBOR DAY ACTIVITIES.
Lemme: Thank you. This is our next event coming up this weekend and basically the
information that I included in your report with the publicity items furnished by the Arboretum
and...local paper and also some schools on all events going on for Arbor Day and we expect a
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,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
good turnout Friday is the free tree give away at the Chanhassen Seniors Mens Club will be
doing that over in front of Festival Foods...If you have any questions or suggestions.
D. PARK PRIDE DAY.
~
Ruegemer: Thank you Jim. Our annual Park Pride Day is going to be this coming Saturday,
April 30th. We have groups already lined up and ready to go to clean our different
Chanhassen parks. So we're getting some response on that. We're going to be meeting up at
City Hall here on the east side at 9:00 a.m. and coming to distribute bags and that type of
thing and then the groups then will go out to their parks and have a 2 1/2 hours to clean their
parks and bring all their garbage and refuse back to City Hall and we'll have a city dump
truck and that type of thing to collect the refuse and take care of all that for them. Then
we're going to have a free hot dog lunch with refreshments. I'm sure Jan can appreciate the
little comment in there. That was intended for you. Then we're going to have a free hot dog
lunch from 11 :45 to 1 :00. Park Pride volunteers will receive a special prizes and we're also
going to purchase a tree that can be planted in any location that they would like to in one of
our parks and that can kind of their tree that they can take care of and kind of have a special
bond I guess from year to year with that so.
Lash: Is it really necessary for them to bring all the trash back.
Manders: That's what I was going to ask.
Lash: ...don't all the parks have garbage cans?
Ruegemer: Actually we have a contest. Whoever collects the most refuse is the winner for
special prizes or we're going to be giving away door prizes too.
Lash: Like what kind of prizes?
Ruegemer: Excuse me.
Lash: What kind of prizes are you going to be giving away?
Ruegemer: We're going to be giving away Arbor Day T-shirts and sweatshirts and hats away
to kind of promote Arbor Day with that too. So we're looking forward to it. It should be a
good turn out and hopefully the rain will hold out for us on Saturday and we're looking
forward to it. J
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
....."
Andrew Olson: Are you taking tires on that day too? These are tires that are in the creek
that goes through into Lake Susan. I have my waiters...and pull them up. But there's tires,
they get thrown in from the highway and they get washed down.
Ruegemer: Yeah, we'll take those.
Lemme: Or they can be brought out to public works that day.
Ruegemer: Oh that's right. They are doing that type of a waste clean up and drop off down
at the city public works that they do with appliances and that type of thing.
Lash: Do you know where that is?
Andrew Olson: Yes.
Ruegemer: So if you would like, if you wouldn't mind doing that, we're be more than happy
to...for that.
Andrews: Can he qualify for the prize?
-,.
Andrew Olson: All the stuff blowing off of Jasper Development is blowing into the park too.
Ruegemer: Okay. We just had a group go through, Lake Susan you're referring to?
Andrew Olson: It's right along the Jasper Development. The high winds, we had a storm the
past few days has made a difference. I mean it hasn't been common. But they're getting
more stuff in there now.
Ruegemer: Is that on the south side of the park? Okay, we'll get somebody else in there that
can take care of that too and we did have...they just came in last week at Lake Ann and Lake
Susan to clean up as part of the...the Governor's Task Force. Kind of a program to clean up
both of our major community parks here last week so we'll get somebody else there to take
care of some of that blowing debris.
Berg: Is there going to be an attempt to keep the garbage separate from recyclable items?
Ruegemer: I always try to do that as far as pick through. We do that in the parks as well
but we make an effort to do that.
,
Lash: Is Greenwood Shores, is that spoken for yet?
.."",
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,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Ruegemer: No.
Lash: I'll round up a crew to get that one. Which one's haven't been, just out of curiosity?
Ruegemer: Rice Marsh has been. Down there...but the Hidden Valley Trail. Rice Marsh
Park. Meadow Green is spoken for. We're going to be doing the Bandimere Community.
Those are ones that are spoken for. Lake Ann and Lake Susan are already done but if we can
get another group over there...So yeah, if you'd like to do...
E. ADULT SOFTBALL LEAGUES.
Ruegemer: Is everybody, basically what this is just kind of an FYI for you as far as what's
going to be happening now in our adult softball league for the season. A lot of teams elected
to extend their season to play more games in at the end. I think that's going to be very
receptive for the teams and what I did was break those down per night of the week and how
many teams were in each league. Total of 68 teams this year, which were increased from last
year. Really the most significant increase was in the co-rec. Last year we had 11 teams.
,.... This year we're going to have 16 so that was a very nice surprise. Some additional revenue
for us. That makes up now for some of the declining programs in...Wednesday has pretty
much maintained the same amount That helps us also in any additional revenue that we can
get is welcomed, that's for sure. Is there any questions anybody has on the softball? I'll flip
the tape here real quick and maybe you can keep firing them at me.
Lash: ...what does that mean?
Ruegemer: That is a member of the softball. Now as they're going down like in year's past
they've used like the kit ball, which is the 16 inch ball. Then for a while there they went to
the 14 inch...ball and that didn't really catch on but now everybody's going down to the 11
and 12 inch. That program is just taking over the State right now and it's, in fact that's the
State Tournament that we're going to hold out here is going to be...State C Tournament for
that August 26th through the 28th out at Lake Ann here. We're going to host that tournament
so it's really taking off and with that league out here, they can use the, the men can use
softball as well as in the past they could use a 16 inch, the males did not use gloves and the
females did. In this program now, it's really, I think it's going to be a lot better because it
gives people more of an opportunity to get the ball here...It's kind of hard to do. It's really
more fair across the league as far as people getting the competition...and it's really a nice
way. I'm glad we're getting additional teams.
,
,....
Manders: How much demand beyond space. I mean you've got enough space for all of this
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
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obviously. Do you have a lot more demand than you have space to accommodate?
Ruegemer: Just for an example Jim. I did have to decline people under the Monday nights.
I had probably 18 or 19 teams total so I had to, probably 2 to 3 teams could not get in
Monday nights. I could have added more on Thursday night. Friday night, I maxed out at
now. Thursday night I'm maxed out at and Monday I'm maxed out on so, we looked at
possibly doing like a Sunday night league but that really didn't bite. A lot of people didn't
want to get into that. This year. But for years coming up we certainly see doing things on
the weekends and whether that would be officiated or not officiated, we can certainly use the
carpet, which is a carpet that's placed in back of home plate. If the ball hits that on a pitch,
the carpet, then that's a strike so it's a way to offer play without officials. So that might
be...getting officials on weekends is somewhat tough so we can certainly take a look at those
options when we cross that bridge. So really, I know some of the teams were a little bit
upset that they didn't get in. Some of the teams had been playing out here for 5 or 6 years
but...I'm sorry. We fill up really quick these days so maybe that's a lesson they can learn in
future years. But an additional plug for, I know we keep looking at youth complexes and that
type of thing. We either need to take a look at acquiring additional parkland for some adult
fields or possibly take a look at purchasing some lights for the fields and expanding the
leagues if we can. So just a little plug... Does anybody have any questions regarding
softball?
...."",
Lash: Well just as an example when you talk about lights. On Monday nights you've got,
are all 16 teams playing every Monday night?
Ruegemer: Yes.
Lash: And so you already have them back to back, don't you?
Ruegemer: Right.
Lash: Or is there a game on every field?
Ruegemer: Right. We're playing at 6:10 and 7:20 on every field Monday nights. It just, for
your example. On Thursday night too I eliminated some teams in there allowing for more
youth activities on Field #1 so the baseball program for the 13 to 16 year old range so I did
cut back a little bit on that. Really Lake Ann #1 and Lake Ann #2 are solely dedicated now
for youth activities so that seems to be working out well. Those are going 6 to 7 days a
week... Any additional questions on softball?
i
F. SUMMER PLAYGROUND/SUPER EVENTS SCHEDULE.
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.,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Lemme: I believe you probably saw the Summer Discovery playground schedule on the last
administrative packet. It maybe has changed a little bit since then. I just wanted to include it
so you would know...this is strictly informational. To let you know what's going on with
the...areas in the summer. They're popular programs. And the Wing Dings, which int he
past have been over at the Elementary School, obviously we're kicked out of there as
well...but we'll try our best.
Andrews: How tight are you on age limits here? If we have siblings where we're a couple
months older or a couple months under on an age limit on some of these programs, is that a
huge problem?
Lemme: I usually tell people, I don't check birth certificates and if we have problems with a
child, I'd say it usually would be someone sending a 3 year old and that child's not socialized
to the point that they can do the activities with the 4 year old's. We usually catch onto that.
We would talk with parents and the parents would...1f it doesn't work, then they usually...but
as long as they can deal with the activities. I do also tell people though the activities are
planned for that age group so if there's problems with age appropriateness and your child is
either below the age or above the age, that's probably, you're going to see that.
,....
Andrews: Okay, thank you.
Lash: And Jerry...so would that be like 12 thru 15 or something like that?
Ruegemer: Yes, a little bit older.
Lash: Okay, but didn't you have like Beaver Mountain and what else was it?
Ruegemer: I'm going to Trout Air in Forest Lake now for the St. Croix canoe trip.
Lash: Because some of these, like the wave pool...in-line skating, like those things.
Ruegemer: I just try to expand and do different things. We like to try new things and see
what kind of response that we do get and these seem appropriate and we're going to give it a
try. See what happens with that.
Lemme: If we've had 12 year olds that want to go on the super events...since they were 7, I
usually give those people, I write their name and their phone number down and if I still have
openings on the trip...and then I'll call people and say, I've still got openings. Send them
along. )
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
~
Andrews: Any other comments? Let's move to item 6.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
A. 4TH OF JULY FIREWORKS CONTRACT.
Ruegemer: In the past we've used Banner Fireworks now for the last 3 or 4 years since I've
been here for the 4th of July and now we've also included them into the February Festival.
They always have done an excellent job and they comply with all safety rules and regulations
and I would like to use them again now for this year's 4th of July Celebration. This year is
our 10th Anniversary of our 4th of July Celebration. As part of that I would like to increase
the [rreworks. Last year we were at $7,000.00, including insurance and sales tax. This year
it's recommended or requested I guess that if we could raise that amount...$10,422.00 range
to cover a longer show, a little bit more creative and a little bit more energetic I guess for the
show. I believe that this increase would be very well worth it to our residents. I know that
we're very well held in high regard as having really one of the best shows in the southern
area. Southwest metropolitan area and I know that this could really give us a good boost, a
shot in the arm. That really could add to our premiere event. Using something...on an annual
basis. The increase in this amount was approved as far as the 1994 budget process, so if
you're wondering if the increase is not covered, it certainly is. And also with revenues ....,./
collected through our sponsorship program we can help offset the increase on the fireworks as
well. So staff's recommendation is for the Park and Recreation Commission to approve the
[rreworks display contract with Banner Fireworks Display Company in the amount of
$10,422.50.
Andrews: Is there anybody that's against that? Can we have a motion then to make that
official?
Lash: I would move that we accept that contract with Banner Fireworks Display Company in
the amount of $10,422.50.
Berg: Second.
Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the
fireworks display contract with Banner Fireworks Display Company in the amount of
$10,422.50. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
J
Andrews: Just as long as we have some of those big boomers. Those are the ones I like.
..."",
14
,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Ruegemer: We like boomers too.
B. 1994 NATIONAL RECREATION AND PARKS ASSOCIATION CONGRESS.
MINNEAPOLIS. OCTOBER 12-15.
Hoffman: I'm just trying to start in early to encourage either all of the entire commission or
individual members of the commission to join us down at the National Recreation and Parks
Association Congress in Minneapolis this October 12th thru 15th. It's not only a good time
but it certainly is the ultimate in networking availability with other states. Other Park and
Recreation Commission members. See what they're doing. See how they're getting money
out of their City Council's so we can come back here and really get back at the... Mark it on
your calendars. If you can work it into your schedule, just let me know which days you
would like to attend and we'l1 coordinate that.
Andrews: When are teacher conventions? Aren't they right about then?
Berg: That's what I was wondering. Yeah, it's pretty close to that.
.,..... Ruegemer: Oh MEA?
Berg: Yes.
Hoffman: There's an interesting statistic on the back when it talks about Minneapolis. They
have 1,253 parks. An acre of parkland for every resident where we talk about 1 acre for
every 75 residents.
Andrews: Who has an acre for every?
Hoffman: The City of Minneapolis.
Andrews: Alright so are you, are you going to be looking for attendees here in probably
what, in September? For some commitments there.
Hoffman: Yep.
Andrews: Okay. Keep us posted on that then.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENT A TIONS:
,
,....
Andrews: Are there any commission member presentations? I have two. Both of mine came
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
...."
about as a result of tonight's meeting. One is that we must have an agenda for next year's
joint meeting. I felt that we were not able to state our cause well enough as far as our needs
for funding and a more aggressive approach by not having an agenda so I think we need to
do that. The second point is that Todd, you talked about equipment storage, in particular for
the new school site. Is that where you were referring to? That needs to get on a short track
agenda so we can try to catch that during construction. I think we'll get our best deal then.
So that's it for me.
Hoffman: ...submitted the plans that are made up. I didn't get a chance to talk about it but
it's about a $150,000.00 building. It's not part of the original program so the budget is
coming in good. We'll be able to fmance it under the current budget. If they do not, they
spent a lot of extra money, I was going to be looking to the Legion and the Lion's Club. In
speaking with Don Ashworth and Todd Gerhardt, the tax increment district looks like it
certainly would be able to handle this $150,000.00 expenditure so that would be my
recommendation back to the commission and it should be your...recommendation then to City
Council. Because without it, we're just...90% of the way.
Andrews: I have two questions. One would be, are we getting into a problem of siting a city
owned piece of building on district owned property?
Hoffman: No.
--'
Andrews: This would be on the other side then from the property line?
Hoffman: Correct. This would be on the city, within the city property. The site plan and as
you know, this is the community parking lot, community entrance. This would be a focal
point as you drive down. You would be looking straight ahead and it would be right in that
central location.
Lash: And is one side storage and the other side a warming house or I don't get what you're
really saying.
Hoffman: They're two matching cubes. One twisted at a 45. One would be the open, one
for the open picnic shelter area. One would be the warming house and then this...would pick
up the storage, restrooms, the concession area.
Lash: So the storage...on the north side?
Hoffman: Yep. On the north side. Not nearly as big as we'd like. We've seen that the
original storage room consumed all of that but the mechanics, etc, etc.
16
...."
I"""" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Andrews: Is there any grade here that would allow us to put like a below grade, just rough
equipment storage? You know a steel garage type door. Just jam the field equipment in
there, whatever because this looks pretty small for servicing such a large outdoor complex for
city needs.
Hoffman: Below grade I think would be cumbersome. We can see what we can do as far as.
Andrews: It'd be kind of like a walkout type of an approach.
Lash: Like a tuck under?
Andrews: Yeah, like a tuck under of some sort. It's cheap. It's out of sight This doesn't
look like it has any storage room and we're going to have.
Lash: Well now won't the school district have to have lawn mowers and stuff!
Hoffman: That won't be on site, no. And we won't store lawn mowers there. It will almost
totally be dedicated to the associations which are using the fields.
""""
Lash: Well you're going to need equipment locations and goals and flags and striping
equipment and that kind of stuff.
Hoffman: I'll talk to HG tomorrow and see what we can do with either expanding that one
or looking at a below grade.
Lash: Lake Ann is not too far away either for some of that stuff.
Andrews: No but I mean if you're running a soccer tournament or a baseball tournament,
you want the stuff there. That's, and to spend an extra thousand or two to tack on a little
rough space on this thing is much better than to have to build another building to service the
property later on so.
Berg: Somebody will inevitably not return it where it's supposed to be and it will just get
left there too.
Andrews: Just a point Jan, you had some items?
"'"
Lash: Yeah I did. I have a couple of things. First of all I had a request, through a coach,
for the 12-13 year old league and they, I guess they had requested that the equipment that's
used for that league, that's now over at Lake Susan, that be moved to Lake Ann and they
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
.....""
were told that that couldn't happen. That the batting cage and something else, I can't
remember now what it was. Was it a pitching machine?
Ruegemer: Yeah, there is a pitching machine...
Lash: At Lake Ann?
Ruegemer: At Lake Susan.
Lash: At Lake Susan. Okay. Anyway they wanted to know if they could move those things
over to Lake Ann since the league is playing there and they said that the answer was no. So
I was supposed to pitch it again tonight and see, at least why. If there's a really good reason
or what the deal is, do you know?
Hoffman: Well the pitching machines are obviously portable. They could take those
wherever they want them. I've had a couple of conversations on at least 2 or 3 occasions
with Jack Jenson about putting an additional batting cage at Lake Ann and either that takes an
action by the Park and Recreation Commission to fund the thing or it takes a firm
commitment by the Athletic Association to buy it and approach the Park Commission to put
the thing in there. We simply can't at a staff level say, go ahead and we'll drag the thing ..."",
over there and move it...It's an addition of another physical amenity to put in the park and
that certainly has to be discussed at a Park and Recreation Commission level. So I don't
know if Jerry has closed the door but I have never closed the door.
Ruegemer: No, I haven't either. I think that's still open for discussion. Like Todd said,
Jack has approached us a couple different times. I think that needs to be brought up maybe
as an agenda item.
Hoffman: One area they talked about was behind Field #2. A field which the fence was
moved in and we sat down and drew it out on a map. It doesn't fit in that location so again,
at first blush I can't identify another spot which would be appropriate for a batting cage at
Lake Ann. So if the commission, as commission members if you, down at Lake Susan it
makes a lot of sense to go off to the field lines and it's kind of out of the way. At Lake
Ann, there's not a lot of flat spaces.
Lash: So the one at Lake Susan, is that a city owned one or CAA owned?
Ruegemer: That was purchased and operated by the CAA.
I
Lash: Okay. So if they could come up with a spot at Lake Ann that it would fit and be
...".,
18
,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
functional, does that seem to be what the problem is? Is that we just don't have the spot for
it or what do you think?
Ruegemer: That's really one of the key elements. More is, like Todd said, if back of Field
#2. Now we do have irrigation back there now and we have to be concerned about with
digging in the future but we could expand those zones back into the other areas. So like
Todd was referring to, there really isn't a whole lot of flat space in there or around Lake Ann
any more to put that. Because those are about 12 feet wide and 60 feet long so that is maybe
the area I guess...we can certainly take a look at that.
Lash: So if they wanted to move the pitching machines over there, could they be stored?
Ruegemer: I just found out today that CAA's buying an additional 3 pitching machines this
year with 3 generators so that might take some of that pressure off. They have the pitching
machine over there because the batting cage was there and they could sign up on Saturdays
and go use that.
"'"
Lash: But if they wanted to store something at Lake Ann, can they store them at Lake Ann?
Ruegemer: We can certainly take a look at it I know we'd probably need an additional
couple of storage boxes out there but we can, you know by no means at a staff level did we
reject any offers of doing that because we're certainly open to helping out the association in
any way we can.
Lash: Okay. So I'm just going to suggest that they talk to you guys directly and if it needs
to come back to the commission, that it will be put on the agenda then?
Ruegemer: Yes.
Lash: Okay, thanks. Alright and then the other thing was, while we were at our meeting Jim
gave me, Jim's idea and the more I thought about it, the more I thought it was something we
should take and run with. When you're talking about trying to raise more money for your
funds, your recreational fund each year, maybe it's something, I'm not saying it be a fee
assessed but maybe it's...developers when they come in, that we see that Lundgren Bros was
generous enough to make a...contribution this year. That we would look favorably on
developers who...but we would appreciate contributions from developers for our recreational
fund.
Andrews: It could be a gold, silver or platinum developer.
I""
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
....#
Lash: It could be done. I mean if it's $100.00 or $500.00 or whatever. You know it doesn't
have to be.
Andrews: They should be offered the opportunity.
Hoffman: That opportunity to approach them comes at every City Council meeting when
they're up to approve a new grocery store in town because the stand up and the fIrst words
out of their mouth are, or fast food restaurant is, we're community minded. We love to be
community citizens.
Lash: Maybe we should just have a fund. Right there...
Andrews: Which level of citizen would you like to be?
Lash: Right But that's certainly a way of trying to increase our funds.
Hoffman: We'll put them on the mailing list
Lash: And I was wondering on a couple of things. If we need to dredge up a couple of old
issues. Number one I know, and I can't remember if it's spring or fall, but mosquito control. ...."",
That's something we're supposed to be reviewing annually isn't it?
Hoffman: Yeah, in the fall and I don't know if there's an automatic kick in to review it or
not. I'll have to take a look at last year's motion.
Lash: Okay. And also the fees at Lake Ann, I don't recall having that lengthy discussion
again this year. A councilmember brought that up.
Berg: We did that at the budget meeting didn't we?
Lash: Did we? I don't know. Maybe it wasn't as long as usual so I don't remember it
And we did breeze over the discussion on the pedestrian bridge tonight and you know, is that
something we wanted to do intentionally?
Hoffman: Have...
Lash: Yes.
Hoffman: No, not intentionally.
...."
20
,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Andrews: It's a done issue isn't it?
Hoffman: Yeah. The Mayor today at the State of the City address said it's going to be up
and built by the fall of 1994.
Andrews: At the cement site so. Dave must have done a lot of arm twisting on that one.
Huffman: No, it's a dead duck. I mean it was a dead deal. Yeah, it was set and done and
long gone. Pick and choose your spots.
Hoffman: It's something where we need, you know different commissions have different
agendas in the city and the HRA put that into a priority stage and looked at that funding.
The matching funding favorably...originally intended. I certainly hope it's...it's one of our
connection points we're looking at. We're looking at two others to the west. At Lake Ann
and farther out at the new school.
Andrews: When we talk about large budget items, so many of these are funded by I guess
what I'll call creative financing through either tax increment or other methods, that perhaps
"",....... we should nudge the City Council into somehow finding a way to expand a tax district to go
around Bandimere Park. Because that might be one of the only ways we're ever going to get
enough money to do anything with it. I notice they just created a tax district that just
coincidentally runs right along where the proposed TH 10 1 trail could go someday so they do
have the authority and the power to do that. It might be something we could plant for action
for the future. As our commercial development goes along here, and it's not going to be too
long before we lose that opportunity. In fact very shortly actually, so maybe that's something
we could have them do.
Manders: I guess I had a couple things I wanted to bring up. One was related to our field
trip that we want on and the idea of similar activities that we've conducted in Chanhassen. I
believe last year we went out to a few site inspections. It seems to me we need to do more
of that. I personally like it and you get more of a hands on feel for what things are like out
there and if it's, I mean I realize that we can go out and look at parks and things on our own
if we're interested but I think when issues come out, that we can go out as a group and get
it...1 think that's great.
Lash: You know I can think back on, especially the Herman Field project and when that was
nearing completion we took a little field trip and we've been there before. I think it was
done maybe we went after completion and it makes you feel good. There's a sense of
closure on some of these things and you feel like you've finally accomplished something. It
JIll'"
21
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
..J
kind of helps keep us going to actually see something.
Andrews: Yeah, it does get discouraging sometimes. You feel like you're just never getting
anywhere. It is like Jan says, it's just nice to see a project get done like that One that you
were here when it started and here when it's done and there aren't too many that we can say
that for.
Lash: Like Pheasant Hills would be a nice one.
Hoffman: We're back into that field trip season so we'll do more of those.
Lash: One thing that just popped into my head. Another comment Jim made...! think for the
benefit of all of us, and especially the newer commissioners, to have a discussion on PUD's
and the impact that they have and that we can have on that needs to be discussed so that
everybody's brought up to speed. And then when it is a PUD and it's on the agenda, maybe
it needs to be a little reminder to everybody that remember a PUD means...just to refresh
everybody's memory so that when we start hearing appeals from a developer, we remember
that we have some ground to stand on.
Hoffman: Sure.
....."
Berg: And an item I'd like to see on an upcoming agenda is what we're going to do with the
land by Apple Valley Red-E-Mix.
Hoffman: Okay.
Andrews: Who's going to own that, HRA? I think HRA does own that
Hoffman: We'll be owning it
Andrews: And I think the concept plan has now turned into some sort of a gardening, walk
through park area.
Hoffman: Green space of some sort.
Lash: Do we have a garden club in town? Like Excelsior?
Hoffman: We have a not very active garden club.
I
Lash: Two people.
22
...."I'
""' Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
Lemme: We have Charlene Eiler and Todd Gerhardt.
Lash: Have you... with the seniors? I mean those.
Lemme: They did the plantings out at City Hall last year. You know they're busy. They
did the planting and they kind of ignored it after that and then Charlene and I were going to
take it over...
Lash: Well I read all those things in Excelsior about their garden club. It's been there for 80
years and those guys planted the whole thing by the Post Office and now they did the whole
thing over by 19 and it'd be kind of nice if they'd adopt that whole thing...
Berg: I can get you lots of teenage volunteer help just like that.
Andrews: Back to Fred's point about that Red-E-Mix property. In the past with the HRA
developments, they've developed it and then come to us and asked us, is this okay? Yeah.
Fred's point is a good one. If that is legitimately going to be a green space or you know a
park type use, we need to take a serious look at what we'd like to see happen there.
,...,
Berg: Let's be proactive.
Andrews: Proactive, right. Let's come up with a plan that we like to see that coordinates
and come back to the HRA and say, here's something that you can do for us. I mean I still
look back at the original community center situation and I think geez, how silly that was.
Here they had it blueprinted and a construction engineer already hired before they even came
to us and asked us what we thought. Let's take the opposite approach. I would like tQ see
that on a fairly short agenda. Any other?
Manders: The last comment I had was, I just wanted to express my appreciation to the
gentlemen for coming in. I thank the commission too. Just being actively involved in
something and taking your time to come and express a concern like that when you're talking
about cleaning up tires and stuff like that, that's great to hear. So I appreciate it.
Andrews: We're always looking for new commission members too. Future seasons. Good
way to get active. There's a lot of different things you can get active in. The Tree Board.
There are other bodies. Now Todd, isn't there going to be an environmental board set up
separate from the Park Board or is that..
Hoffman: ...the Tree Board, the SWMP Committee, the Recycling Committee. All those
deal with natural resources and environmental committees...
,....
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
--'
Andrews: That would be a good group to be involved with.
Andrew Olson: Can I comment on the tree committee? And you're into preservation and
drip lines and all this during developments. Are you involved with actual developments or
only on parkland?
Andrews: Developments too. They're looking at, that is a separate group but they're looking
at preservation of tree stands in all areas. I think they're trying to come up with some
quantitative ways to measme loss of canopy. Loss of tree diameter. So it's an active group.
I'm also part of the Chanhassen Chamber and there are a lot of developers that are a part of
that group that are very concerned about what that group's doing. That tells me that
something good's going to come out of it. So hopefully it will help us preserve what we
have left in trees because we don't have a lot left.
Andrew Olson: No, my concern mainly is the Argus Development south of me. They had
that big hassle about the stand of oaks down there along side CR 17. They changed some of
their lots and all that and the rules and regulations were for protection. To keep equipment
off of the roots of these oaks because they can damage them...whatever and they come along
and they put the nice little plastic fencing about that far from the tree and then they're driving
over and all around the rest of it and that.
....",
Andrews: It will kill them.
Andrew Olson: You have to have some hard and fast rules of whether it's going to apply to
a developer or parkland when that's being built up. But to say drip line, the tree's got more
room...
Andrews: Well that would be the group that would be trying to come up with ordinances.
Right now they're just in a formative stage right now with ordinances so if that's an interest
that you have, that would be a group that I would seek out and be involved with. Because
that's exactly what they're trying to do is how much separation and how much canopy has to
be preserved. How much tree diameter on a quantitative basis for a development should be
preserved? They act independently from us. Anything else?
Huffman: I just want to say very quickly, this is the flIst time I've officially had a chance to
say thank you to everybody but it's a pleasme to be here and I look forward to a long
association. Thank you for yom confidence and I hope I don't screw it up too badly.
J
Lash: We'll let you know.
24
...""
" Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 26, 1994
If!"""'-
,,.....
Andrews: Anything else?
Lash: Did we officially congratulate Dave on record? I don't think we did.
Andrews: Congratulations, yes. And welcome. Is there a motion to adjourn?
Lash moved, Berg seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Coordinator
Prepared by Nann Opheim
25