PRC 1992 04 14
~CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
, SPECIAL MEETING
APRIL 14, 1992
Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Larry Schroers, Fred Berg, Jim Andrews, Dave Koubsky, and
Jan Lash
MEMBERS ABSENT: Randy Erickson and Wendy Pemrick
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; and Jerry Ruegemer,
Recreation Supervisor
SITE PLAN REVIEW. PRELIMINARY PLAT. STONE CREEK. HANS HAGEN HOMES.
Hoffman: First off I'd like to introduce formally, Hans Hagen of Hans
Hagen Homes...also want to speak on behalf of Stone Creek. Park Commission
initially reviewed this item on March 24th. The report presented the
Commission included in your packet this time around as well to let you
reaquaint yourselves with Stone Creek. The issues identified at that time
would be land d~dication in lieu of park fees but we weren't quite happy
with the configuration or the layout of the piece of property which was
proposed. We also talked about the necessity of right-of-way on the east
side of Galpin Blvd. and the north side of Lyman Blvd. for future
construction of bituminous trail link identified in our City's
~comprehensive trail plan. And then we talked about the full payment of
trail dedication fees. $167.00 per unit for this development. A series of
subsequent meetings with Mr. Hagen and other representatives of this
project came up with two alternate proposals. A couple of them which I
think are, or both of them were essentially meet the requirements which the
Park and Recreation Commission and staff had identified in the areas of
park development and park need. However, alternate plan A as you show on
there, as shown on the first sheet is one which I believe makes a little
better sense for the Commission and the city as a whole in the area of
Stone Creek in serving the adjacent communities as well. Initially we
communicated this information back to Hans. ...have identified an
alternate park site proposal. Just to show the general area, south of the
first park...park acquisition. They brought it out into the center of the
subdivision. Made it a little more visible and acceptable. The tree line
is located right about here so it contains most of the property with trees
on it... This site is a little bit larger... What we came back with was
about a 5.4 acre site labeled there as park and shown on this large plan
down in this area. what that would require then would be a cul-de-sac
road...area and then remains an outlot which would be developed at some
point in the future...potentially for the land owners to the ~rth. It
serves essentially the same needs as this site would. It's somewhat
smaller. This is labeled as 5.4 acres. What the Commission and City can
require for park dedication. It does contain some flat area on the western
edge and then it also contains the street drainageway, a portion of a
wooded wetland in the northern most region. It has generally some similar
characteristics to the other site but it's basically the major difference,
it's not near as large. It's about 3.2 acres smaller than site A. The
~applicant had a desire to, it's my belief to make use of this odd shape
piece of property as a portion of this initial development. He stayed away
from having to go with an outlot and having to put a cul-de-sac road down
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 2
..."",
in there which when...private sewage lift pumps... What Mr. Hagen proposed
,was to eliminate Lot 13 or 12 and 13 as labeled in the first diagram on
what would really be the entrance into that park area. It opens up
Alternate A park site. It provides quite a bit more visibility. Provides
quite a bit more street frontage. Considerable more street frontage and
that allows for a larger variety of uses for the park, namely it allows for
a nice sliding hill. So those ,were the two proposals. This one, 8.6 acres
versus the 5.4. As the Commission was discussing; as I talked with
Chairman Schroers earlier, this,plan does not address the trail connection
along the northern property border connecting over to Timberwood and then
the eastern portion of this subdivision as 'it was shown on your initial
plans. We went back to the March 24th packet you'll see the trail
connection i ncludedi n tha,t. It is not i ncluded in the recommendation for
this evening. I would like the Commission to go ahead and discuss that
issue and resolve this evening whether or not you feel a trail connection
would be necessary at that location. In my opinion it's certainly not
essential but it would be nice to increase traffic flow pattern opportunity
for both the residents in Timberwood and the residents in the eastern half
of this subdivision and other residents who would be traveling to and from
the park coming from other subdivisions in the area. .
Schroers: Okay, thanks Todd. Maybe you could answer just a couple of
questions before we discuss this here. Is there adequate flat space there
for the active use area that we're speaking of?
Hoffman: You can see in this plan or the play that he laid out, th€;lre's ~
some sketche~ made on there for the tennis court and the play structure.
There's certainly adequate land for, appr6ximately 4 acres would be flat or
developable. Developable land. As it's shown here, they've sketched in a
tennis court down in this location. The play area needed to be up closer
to the road where you can grade out a plateau. This provides some unique
opportunities for a two tiered play structure where you have it on two
levels with some connections with slides. That type of thingj, or you could
pull it down into the flat. Essentially this half of the park is 50%, from
here south...preserve the mature trees and... We're not going to put a
baseball field...
Schroers: Okay, thanks. Do any of the commissioners have any concerns
regarding the useability of the park and the amenities that we could offer
here? I think maybe we should talk about that first as a separate issue
and then go onto discussing that trail easement.
Lash: How much, between the two different sites, how much useable acreage
is there? Is that comparable?
Hoffman: It's fairly comparable. Alternate Plan B also is located on a
site which includes a fairly steep hill. It's not quite as, the grade
isn't quite as severe as this site. However then Site A levels out and
provides some real good opportunity for some flatter ground activities.
Where Site B tends to slope down and hits the woodland edge. You can look
at the aerial. You'll see on Site B the agricultural field which
encompasses a portion of that site. Slopes down and then hits the treed
portion of the property or hits the woods and...at that point. ~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
~April 14, 1992 - Page 3
Andrews: What do we have on the southern most edge of that Plan A. What
kind of width east and west are we looking at there?
Hoffman: The...is like 200-300...street frontage. About 325 feet.
Andrews: So as far as a field where kids could play ball, there's probably
adequate room for kids up to I would think 15-16 years old before you could
hit a ball far enough to.
Hoffman: Hit it into the woods or creek.
Schroers: How far away is the closest ballpark? How far do most kids have
to go from there if they actually did want to get on a regular ballfield?
Hoffman: That would be either at Lake Ann, Lake Susan or Sunset Ridge.
Lash: Sunset Ridge is probably the closest. How far would that be? 1/2
mile?
Koubsky: I suppose. The problem is, what is, Audubon's fairly busy.
Lash: Yeah, but if they're so big that that field is going to be too
little for them to play ball, they could probably cross Audubon.
,
~Hoffman: Or by that age they're most likely involved in some type of
activity...
Andrews: I certainly feel with a development this size, there ought to be
a ballfield. Now it doesn't have to be official or league but I guess I
envision a diamond or three bases and a home plate if nothing els~. And it
sounds like we've got the room there to accommodate a suitable field for
kids of up to probably about 7th-8th grade.
Hoffman: I'm not sure what the needs are for additional, tennis courts in
the southern region of Chanhassen. There's a place in every park ,that we
have. Tennis courts and a ballfield and this site would be making that,
would be utilizing this area here. I can't say to it's maximum because I
don't believe the two would fit there.
Schroers: There's tennis courts at Lake Ann and there's tennis courts at
Lake Susan.
Lash: Are they on line for Sunset Ridge?
Hoffman: Chanhassen Hills at least.
Schroers: Okay, do we need that many tennis courts? Maybe we could
eliminate the tennis courts in this place and utilize that area for open
field play which could have a baseball field.
Lash: We may be putting the cart before the horse here a little bit. Once
~it comes development time, I think we'd do a neighborhood survey and find
out where the priorities are.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 4
..."",I
Andrews: We've got to have enough flat or the right grade for a ballfield.
You need a fairly large piece for that. I think we could make it go here
if we had to do it.
Lash: We could have one or the other. Is that what you're saying?
Hoffman: Correct.
Koubsky: I guess my original thought is, we first questioned this site
because of it's inability to supply the open land we were looking for for
this kind of a neighborhood and we've got 141 houses in here and we've got
80 houses or so going to the southeast of here. So the Commission
originally was looking for an area that was more open. 220 houses, 2 kids
a house. We have possibly400kids~ or at least 200 kids in this
neighborhood. Originally we had requested a second park site be considered
to supply the open area. I'm not voicing an opinion one way or the other
on this second alternative here but we've been given a couple extra lots
which are steeply graded. It facilitates sliding hills real well or a
tiered totlot structure but the original intent was to have some sort of an
open playing field or open area for recreation. I know the Planning
Commission has their feelings and I don't really know the feelings of the
Council on this but I guess I just wanted to make that clear. That was our
original intent and I don't see where things here have changed all that
much or even in the second Plan Bwhere it really facilitated our original
concerns. I attended the Planning Commission meeting. Both Jim and I.
The contours for Park B weren't really laid out and I expressed a concern ....,;'
that this come back to the Commission so we could look at the contour and
look at that proposal more closely.
Hoffman: Your comments are absolutely on line Dave. If we go ahead and
flip and take a 109k at AlternativeB, in order to make this site better
and turn to a flat grade, you're going to have to eliminate Lots 1, 2 and.
3. Take this and jut it over and gather some more of that flat up or down
if you will that is currently in agricultural use and eliminate taking some
of the wooded property.
Schroers: Do you have any particular thoughts Fred on this?
Berg: Not right now.
Schroers: From my point of view, I like the look of A. I think that it
looks to me like we could maybe have the best of both worlds there because
we can have some active use, some natural area up on the north side in the
creek area and I think that we have enough space there for open play and
active use depending on how we lay it out. If we're looking at serving the
needs.of 200 kids, I'm wondering, I have to believe that the kids get a lot
better use out of an open play field type area than they do a tennis court
and I think, my opinion is that we could ~robably sacrifice the tennis
court in this area and have a larger open space and it would do the job. I
think it would make a nice park because it would have both active and
passive use areas and it looks pretty accessible. And it's larger in size.
We get more bang for the buck.
-'
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
~April 14, 1992 - Page 5
Koubsky: Being new, has the Commission talked or thought or discussed
changing neighborhoods? r mean as this neighborhood grows older, there may
be more of a need for tennis courts for example than there would be when
it's young. Is that an issue that's been discussed in the past? Is that
something that might~
Schroers: We've discussed it but what we've found, especially in these new
developments, are basically younger family oriented people and when they
show up at the meeting, their concern is for their children. We want a
playground now because if we have to wait for 3 years, our kids are going
to be too big to use it. That's the kind of thing that we've been
confronted with in the past and hopefully we've learned a few things from
the way things were dealt with in the past. I think that if a neighborhood
got to that point where it matured, if no one was using that open space, it
wouldn't be hard to throw a tennis court in there if we wanted to.
Lash: We have, I think Minnewashta is an example. That little, I can't
remember what it's called. The little park over by Lake Minnewashta. And
it has a skating pond and kind of a small totlot area. It aged and we had
talked i few years ago about how the skating rink never got used anymore
and the playground equipment was basically i~nored. Nobody used it and we
didn't update it. It just sat there. Now all of a sudden last year a
woman came in and she said, hey that playground equipment is crummy. We
don't want our kids to go. There's been a turn over. We want to get this
~fixed up. So there was sort of that lull there as the neighborhood aged
but then I think people move on and then newer families in with children
again and then it just starts the whole cycle over. But I agree with Larry
that well, personally I think this is just the best of both worlds like you
said Larry. ! ,mean it's a rare opportunity that we get a passive area and
enough space that we can do some active.
Schroers: It seems like a nice blend. It sort of favors more the idea of
a park that way rather than you know, it's either going to look like a
ballfield or a woods but when you combine amenities, then you get the park
effect and I think that that's nice.
Lash: Right. And it's nice that you can come into the active area first
but yet if you're into the passive, you can go through the active area and
get to the passive and maybe walk through the woods and not the other way
around where you'd have to go through all the woods first to get there. But
the thing that I hope that we've learned is not to jump the gun here and
start trying to figure what we're going to put on there because it may turn
out that everybody who moves in there has no children. We have no idea
who's going to move in there right now. And maybe they'll want tennis
courts and we can do that. Maybe they don't want tennis courts and we can
do that. All we have to know up front is that we're not going to be able
to do both.
Berg: Or that we could either if we wanted to.
Lash: Right. And I think the thing is, once the neighborhood $tarts .
~filling and we know we're to the point of developing it, is to find out
from the neighborhood what they want. What they want the most. They'll
give us the direction to go with it.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 6
-"
Schroers: That's a good plan. I think the other thing there is you can
always start with an open use area and make something out of it. But if
you go in right away and plug in a tennis court, you hate to go back and
tear that out. You won't want to do that.
Lash: Adults can drive to Lake Ann or they can drive to Lake Susan. Kids
can't go that far to get to an open field or to get to a playground place.
I guess my only, I think it looks good. The only thing I wish is that it
was on the other side 017 the development just because' it would make it more
accessibl& to other neighborhoods. People who'd want to get in and I know
that there was some talk from the residents df Timberwood. Did they share
anything that we should know?
Hoffman: At the Planning Commission? Not to my knowledge.
Andrews: The biggest complaint, their statement was the f~ar of traffic on
the road connections. That was the cOnstant conversation of the meeting.
There really wasn't much talk about the overall. I think the overall
consensus of the people who live there was they would prefer to have more
of the natural area to be honest but their main concerns were the traffic.
Koubsky: Traffic and lot sizes.
Schroers: We've dealt with that in the past too and that's always an issue
when you start talking about it, people tend to over react. Neighborhood
parks are not going to generate that much traffic. People will ...",
occasionally be going, driving back and forth to the park but most of the
use will come from pedestrian or bicycle access. Kids going back and forth
,to the park. And the increase in automobile traffic probably wouldn't be
enough that you could measure it.
Koubsky: The traffic pattern Larry was for the thru on Timberwood Drive.
They didn't necessarily want Timberwood Drive to go into Timberwood
development. They wanted Timberwood Drive on the northern side to be a
cul-de-sac and their traffic concerns were residents leaving the
neighborhood and going out TH 5 on Timberwood. The questions about traffic
pattern weren't related to the park.
Schroers: I see. Soon Plan A-then, Timberwood does continue on through?
Koubsky: ...to continue that Timberwood Drive through Timberwood
development and back out to CR 17.
Hoffman: That's essentially a given that that road will go through.
Schroers: I would think that it would be confusing if Timberwood Drive did
not go into Timberwood development. People wouldn't know where they were.
Koubsky:Well there were issues about naming the road too.
Lash: I'm confused. This doesn't really have anything to do with this but
I look at this, the original plan that we had and it's like both of these
streets go out to CR 18. ~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
~April 14, 1992 - Page 7
Andrews: That's been changed.
Lash: And then on this other one they're both cul-de-sacs. Is it they'll
both be cul-de-sacs?
Andrews: The northern most street there will change from a thru to a
cul-de-sac. The southern entry was left unchanged. I wanted to make a
comment and a question here. I think this is a good compromise. I like
this. Do we have any input or I guess my question would be, would there be
parking provided at this park for people that would drive a car there? And
if so, would we be looking at like a 6 car or 8 car nose in or something
that we could, is that something we need to discuss now or is that handled
by Planning and the city and we don't enter into that?
Hoffman: Something you should discuss at this point.
Andrews: I guess I feel that it's not fair to the city not to provide some
sort of parking, limited although it might be. I think 4 to 6 nose in
spots will be plenty fOT a park like this. And would have little impact
on the park itself. I think the space at the top of the hill does provide
enough space for kids to u.se the ballfield and I agree that we would defer
on the choice of a developed ballfield over a tennis court. Then we solve
more of what was needed and what was required. Certainly adults have the
capability to get in their car and drive to a tennis court. Kids do not
.~have the capability to drive and get to a ballfield. So I feel strongly
that an open field should be graded so it would be suitable for baIlor
soccer or football or whatever it might be. I also think that it's
important that we do ask for a trail easement on that northern edge
connecting the park to the other Timberwood development. I think that's
really important. Would it be okay if we tried a motion here?
Lash: I want to add to the trail. On our original plan you have the
trail that sort of went right through the middle.
Hoffman: Of the park?
Koubsky: That's between Forest and Timberwood.
Lash: Yeah. It didn't go through the middle of the park. It went through
the middle of the development. Connected.
Koubsky: Oh, down by that other pond.
Lash: And I would like to see that we try to pursue that also. And I
would certainly want the developer to make that clear to people buying
those lots that that is.
Hoffman: I'd recommend that you go ahead and include that in your motion
and then we'll negotiate with Hans Hagen Homes to have those developed as a
part of the improvements which are prepared for this subdivision.
~chroers: I think we're about ready to make a motion but I think before we
jo that, maybe we should extend the courtesy to Mr. Hagen to give us his
input on this matter as well.
Park and Rec commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 8
--"
Hans Hagen: Thank you. I think your comments are all well taken. I
started on the Park Commission 25 years ago or maybe more than that so I've
sat where you are and appreciate the things you're going through. I think
~our comments are well taken. I believe that this is a unique opportunity.
We've got almost 9 acres of property. That is an absolutely gorgeous site
and I think your comments were absolutely right on that not setting it
right this year or the next 5 years, you're looking at 100 or 150 years.
During that period of time as the Chairman said, there's always change. So
I believe this is the best location for the park. No question about it.
It's not a great big play area but it's certainly satisfactory for children
up to probably 15~16 years old. You do have a school that's going north of
this, or at least pl~nned...very active park facility... The comments I
might have with regards to the park. We do have 225 feet of frontage on
that road and that name's being changed. We don't have a new name for it
but the two cul-de-sac road. It might be appropriate to leave that as on
street parking. That will take care of any cars versus toe in. What you
do is lose the on street parking and you gain the toe in but yo~'re also
having an effect on grade and alternative uses. So this might be
appropriate before the park is developed just to say well, it's going to be
used for a park. A passive park and should you put some active development
in there...attract a lot of people. Maybe it's better to leave on street
parking parallel and then when you decide to put it in, you aren't
confronted with the problem of having done toe in parking and constrain any
sort of facility there. I'm not sure I understant the comment with regard
to the trail. I've got an original. What we've done to accomplish this is
we've dropped this road down below the ditch. The pond area here was
developed in terms of acre feet. So you can dig it out a little deeper,
make it a little bit smaller, and that's what we have done to accommodate
opening this up. So what we've done is changed the alignment of the street
to bring them down a little bit deeper and we're able to take some out of
the pond until that's satisfactory storm water storage. We do intend to,
if this was the trail you were dealing with, we think that's good because
you've got such a long street and that should be put in as reasonably as we
have dedicated that as either an outlot. Probably as an outlot I would
guess from a platting point of view and so that it will be there and we
will identify it as trails...on either side. And then they would come out
and go up this road...park system. So we think that's appropriate and we
would intend to keep that so.
...,I
Schroers: I don't believe, is that the trail that you were talking about?
What we were talking about was a connecting trail from the bend going
across over here to Timberwood Drive is it? Yes that right there.
Koubsky: That in addition...able to address Jan's concern.
Lash: Both of them.
schroers: Both of them.
Hans Hagen: Okay. I think that would be good because otherwise it's quite
a long way and kids are going to have to find a way to find their way
through anyway. The only alternative to this, and I don't know if it's
appropriate, but when you look at these two neighborhoods connecting..."",
together and ultimately this will be another neighborhood because they're
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
,... Apr il 14, 1992 - Page 9
developing the property north of the park here. Is it possible you maybe
want to look at an alternative connection... You can take a trail and you
can connect it up to Timberwood Drive, up through this subdivision. Those
are really large lots so if you cut back through and get down to passive
park and pull them down and put a little bridge across the trees here, you
could really get a very interesting passive trail system. And I think that
in the subdivisions that we're developing, particularly the larger ones
that run a couple hundred acres, the most important issue we've got is
trails and people don't like to walk on streets all the time. So if you
can make some of it trees, some of it very interesting trail system~ We're
delighted to do this. We put this in on our original submission. We'd be
glad to do it if you'd like but it may be worth considering trying to pull
something through and connecting this park...where you've now you've got,
you're kind of using that passive, northern part of the park as a function
of being able to get residents to cooperate to dedicate other trails
through the balance of it and I understand that's not always easy but it
could make it very interesting. Thank you very much. Any other questions
for me?
Koubsky: How, with that road now, the unnamed double cul-de-sac road, how
wide is that?
Han~ Hagen: That's a 50 foot right-of-way and a 32 foot street back to
back.
"....,
Koubsky: And what's required for on street parking? Is that plenty big to
facil i tate?
Hoffman: It's a whole residential street so if you see on street parking
in your neighborhood, it would look about the same.
Hans Hagen: And these are 90 foot lots which is large by typical suburban
standards. These are the largest lots we've built so that should provide a
substantial amount of parking.
Schroers: What you were suggesting that we started out with on street
parallel type p~rking but then and when we get into the point where we are
designing the park, we would still have the option of putting toe in
parking provided that it fit into our plans. So we can have it either way.
Hans Hagen: Right. Understand that it isn't a big deal for us one way or
the other but I think because you've got 225 feet here, that!s room for 10
cars easily and if you're talking about 8 toe in parking...and it doesn't
affect the neighbors...
Schroers: And we wouldn't be parking right in front of someone else's
house right there.
Hans Hagen:
here to here
parallel.
".....
Schroers: Right in front of the park?
No. I think this measurement if I'm correct is 225 feet from
and you need 20 foot per space, you'd have room for 10
Park and R~c commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 10
--'
Hans Hagen: Right in front of the park, that's correct. So you wouldn't
have to park on anybody else's lot.
Hoffman: It'd_be across from somebody's home. We c.n simply design a
ghost parking lot and put it on the plan and allow for it in our grading
operations similar to what we'r~ doing at Pheasant Hills. Not develop it
at this time and then in the future if it's desired, construct it.
5chro~rs: Yeah, I like having the option.
Berg: It's surmountable curb I assume here. Is all your curb is
surmountable curb?
Hoffman: I believe you have the option.
Hans Hagen: We put in surmo~ntable so you wouldn't have to tear out curb
either if you decided to put in parking spaces.
Lash: Are we talking about some area would need a certain amount of fill?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: Is that someth~ngthat a~ you're doing the developing, you could.
Hans Hagen: Todd... He earned his keep by wanting the fill so we're going
to do the grading. We'll balance the grading. It's got to work but we ~'
indicated we'd grade that area along with the mass grading of the rest of
the development. And I think you're putting up the silt fence and...
Hoffman: 'Correct. As we get to that point, it's one of the conditions of
approval for grading. One additional one which,we need to add, whichever
commissioners makes the motion, would be to include the construction of a
trail segment and we would negotiate away a portion of our trail dollars
for ~hat construction. And work through that. Those cost calculations
with the applicant. Mr. Hagen is correct that the trail connection to the
north would be nice but there's plenty of barriers there. We have not
allowed for it in Timberwood to the north. There may be an option to get
release from this site and go to the north at som~ point in the future but
I ce~tainly don't believe we're going to be able to acquire a side lot
trail easement through one of those lots to the north ~here located in
Timberwood.
Lash: But even if we just were able to get it to the north in the area
that's undeveloped~ and could get it to go west on Galpin. On Galpin to
Timberwood and then they could come around and make a full circle. That
would make a nice.
Hoffman: That would be nice.
Hans Hagen: I would think the residents of Timberwood would like to use
t~is park. It would seem to me that from their standpoint to be able to
t~ke a trail back through...neighborhood rise up and say let's get this
done. I don't know. It doesn't make a difference to me. ~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
"....April 14, 1992 - Page 11
Hoffman: It's always the'battle of, it makes good sense for the whole but,
if we have to take it through one person's yard and that's the one that
counts the most.
Schroers: Well, I think we've reach a point where hopefully we're ready to
make a motion on this. Before we do that, I'd like to thank Mr. Hagen for
his consideration and generosity on this matter. I believe we can make a
very nice park out of this site. Does someone have their facts in order
and would like to make a m6Eion on this?
Lash: I'd like to make a motion that we send a recommendation to City
Council that we accept the 8.6 acres of Alternate Plan A in lieu of park
fees. ' That we, do we want to say to require full dedication fees?
Hoffman: Require the development of the trail.
Lash: Okay, yeah. The development of the two trails as shown on the plan.
And what about the trail fees then?
Hoffman: And reduce trail fees accordingly.
Lash: Okay. And to go along with all of the other recommendations.
Stipulations listed by staff.
~Hoffman: Correct. Which include the park property boundary be surveyed
and marked in conjunction with surveying activity in the adjoining
development phases. The applicant shall grub, clear and grade the park
site according to grading plans provided by the city. The city shall
finish grading and seeding the park site. Erosion control shall be
installed by the applicant as specified in the grading plan at a cost to
the city of $1.75 per lineal foot. Maintenance and removal of the erosion
control materials will be the responsibility of the city.
Lash: And also the right-of-way is through Galpin and Lyman.
Hoffman: Correct.
Schroers: Okay. Do we have a second for that motion?
Andrews: I'll second it.
Lash moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend to accept 8.6 acres of parkland as shown in Alternate plan A in
lieu of payment of park fees and the construction of two internal 8 foot
bituminous trail segments and reduce the trail fees accordingly for Stone
Creek subdivision with the following conditions:
1.
The park property boundary be surveyed and marked in conjunction with
the surveying activity in adjoining developmental phases.
,...., 2 .
The applicant shall grub, clear and grade the park site per grading
plans and specifications prepared by the city and provided to the
applicant. The city shall finish grade and seed the park site.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 14, 1992 - Page 12
......",
3. Erosion control shall be installed by the applicant as specified in the
grading plan at a cost to the city of $1.75 per lineal foot.
Maintenance and removal of the erosion, control materials will be the
responsibility of the city.
4. The applicant shall provide sufficient right-of-way as specified by the
City Engineer to accommodate the future construction of a bituminous
trail along the north side of Lyman Boulevard and the east side of
. Galpin Boulevard.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION SCHEDULE FOR ATTENDANCE AT CITY COUNCIL
MEETINGS.
Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Park Commissioners. This is simply a list
of dates when you will be eligible for attendance to the City Council
meeting. First one being April 27th. Jim Andrews. Jim, I can tell you
right now I don't foresee, well I take that back. You may have the survey
on the schedule but in any event I'll call. I'll call you the week prior
of the Council meeting to let you know what's going on as far as Park and
Recreational items. If there's going to be something of interest. Where
it's going to show up in the agenda. If it's going to be consent. If I
think it could be a potential discussion item. And then such as this
evening when reviewing Stone Creek, once it gets on to City Council and a ~.
City Council member has a question on park action that evening, having a
commissioner present to discuss what took place at this meeting is very
helpful. It makes the process more expedient. It clarifies it. Simply
provides good representation of the Park Commission. Fred, you're off the
hook for May 4th. That meeting has been cancelled. Other than that then
we'll Just continue with this agenda in 1993. Picking up in the order
which is presented here.
Andrews: I'd like to make one correction in my work phone number. It's
473-1241.
Hoffman: Holy coW'. Is that an old one or an erroneous one"?
Andrews: That's over a year old.
Lash: I can give you my work number too. 368-3101.
Hoffman: Thank you.
Lash: We really don't have to pay much attention to this. You'll call us
if you need us, right?
Hoffman: Correct.
Schroers: And there's obviously no action required on this issue so we can
move right along to item 3.
..."
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
~April 14, 1992 - Page 13
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Lash: I just have one that I was going to, I mentioned this to Jerry. I
called last week but didn't connect with him because I guess he was sick.
Next year for the coloring contest, I think that needs to be changed just a
little where they would have their names on the back. The name on the back
and their phone number or something on the back and then directions as to
what they're supposed to do with it. And then maybe just on the front have
their grade level. Because then when the judges are looking, they don't
see who it is. They're not bias if it's someone they know. Not that any
of us are.
Hoffman: Have we done that in the past?
Lash: I don't remember but anyway, this was extremely complicated and a
lot of kids started bringing them back to school and nobody knew what we
were supposed to do with them. It just so happens I was there. If I
wouldn't have been there, I don't know if they would have known what to do.
Hoffman: They end up not getting in the coloring contest and that makes
parents unhappy.
Schroers: Any other commission presentations?
~ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION.
Hoffman: Items included in the Admin section are the letter to Joan. I've
not heard back from her. Have either of you Larry or Dave?
Koubsky: No.
Hoffman: Okay.
Andrews: Todd, I'd like to ask if you could advise me on that one that's
due. At least put me on her list to be contacted.
Hoffman: Hennepin County Rail Authority. That's an interesting side note
on the southern railroad corridors. Hennepin Parks currently will not
present a firm position. They're waffling on what their action mayor may
not be. One potential conflict is that Hennepin County Parks obviously
operates in Hennepin County. They do operate parks in other counties as
well and then this line bisects the Carver/Hennepin County line at the
Charihassen border. Larry, you can address that as well. I don't think
it's going to stop them from developing. I mean they develop parks in
other counties. They certainly, Hennepin Parks has the desire to develop
this trail to link some of their parks in the southern and then eventually
the northern Hennepin County area with Murphy Hanarand and Cleary Lake Park
which they operate in cooperation with Scott County. So they have the
desire to see that regional trail connection.
5chroers: Trail connections are a priority item with Hennepin Parks.
~Although I cannot formally speak for Hennepin Parks but I know that there
are a number of large projects going on in Hennepin Parks which may
somewhat prohibit the undertaking of brand new projects. So I don't know
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 14, 1992- Page 14
-.-I'
for sure what their position would be but I do know that there's a lot of
work going into what is called the North Hennepin Trail Corridor which is
going to link a number of the parks into the city parks. And it will come
from the Minneapolis chain of lakes through Theodore Wirth, out through
Golden Valley and Plymouth to French Park and then up through from French
to Fish Lake Park -and up to Elm Creek and over Coon Rapids dam. Many
portions of that trail have been acquired. Some sections still need to be.
Som~ parts of it are developed. Some parts are not developed and they
would really like to get going on that. So I know the superintendent
attended some special meetings regarding trails just recently. They are
very focused on that issue but where they want to go out here, we don't.
know.
Hoffman: No. The City probably will be involved in some type of
negotiations with the Department of Transportation. The underpass which
g6es over, or the road goes under the tracks down there at TH 101. They're
going to be knocking that down and expanding that and presumably why would
MnDot,want to put the bridge back up over the top when there's no railroad
tracks left over it. Then it becomes either the Hennepin County Regional
Rail Authority's job, the city's job or potentially if Hannepin Parks has a
stake in it at that point, their job to see that MnDot constructs that
brldge back over th~ top of it,and then it becomes an issue of who's going
to pay for that reconstruction. It's out there in the future. The tree
sale ad was ran consecutively in the Villager. The response has been
minimal to date. I'm somewhat surprised. Questions I have heard is that
people are unsure what these trees are going to look like. They're not
sure if they're going to show up half brown and dead but I think once
the...gets off the ground, orders will increase.
...,.,.
Andrews: I think maybe we should have a tree board meeting as long as
we've cooperated on this pTogram.
Lash: Does anyone else think that's a dumb name? Tree Board?
Andrews: That's the nation.
Hoffman: The official name of the Tree City USA. It could be the Shade
Tree Commission. Foresty Board.
Lash: Tree Board, it sounds like the other useage of the word board. Like
a board comes from a tree you know instead of a board of people. I Just
think it sounds dumb.
Hoffman: Katie Walker Day coming up is for your information at the
University of Minnesota. Letter to John Rabe from Jerry. It shows our
interest in keeping our costs down at the beach. And then a note.
Additionally, we have our summer season program specialist full time
position for 4 months on staff. Her name is Dawn Lennon. She will be
present at the upcoming Commission meeting to become acquainted with the
Park Commissioners.
Schroers: Those of us who are going to be in attendance.
Hoffman: That's right.
....."
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
,.... Apr il 14, 1992 - Page 15
Sch,oe,s: I may have to ask Commissioner And,ews to chair the meeting of
what, is that the 27th? No, 28th.
Hoffman: 28th, correct. One issue which will be brought back to the
Commission for sure that evening is Cathcart Park. That continues to boil.
That issue. The park's up in the air and who's going to grab it up. The'
church,' Minnewashta Church across the road shows a sincere interest...
Berg moved, Koubsky seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoff~an
Park and Rec Coordinator
Prepared by Nann Opheim
II"'"
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