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PRC 1992 05 19 ~CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 19, 1992 Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 8:00 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Fred Berg, Randy Erickson, Wendy pemrick, Larry Schroers, Dave Koubsky and Jan Lash MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Andrews STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Dawne Lemme, Program Specialist SITE PLAN REVIEW. PRELIMINARY PLAT OF BLUFF CREEK ESTATES. KEYLAND HOMES. Hoffman: Chairman Schroers and Commission members. James R. Hill and Associates is working on this subdivision proposal. Jim Hillis in the audience this evening and would be available to answer questions or to address the Commission if you so choose. This is a preliminary plat of 61.45 acres into 78 single family lots and one outlot. The outlot is 19 acres in size and is currently designated or thought to be part of the Bluff Creek preservation district. It also includes rezoning from A-2, Agricultural Estates to Residential Single Family and a wetland alteration permit for development within 200 feet of the wetland. The location map ~shows you where this proposed development is located. Again the applicant is Keyland Homes of Burnsville, Minnesota. The Comprehensive Plan identifies a majority of the site is lying within the service areas of Power Hill Park and as being in the service area fringe of Sunset Ridge Park. Both of those are located in the Lake Susan Hills West development. And then as well the new park located in the stone Creek development which the Commission recently went through the acquisition process for. However, the railroad alignment to the north, Audubon Road to the east and a lack of trail and street connections currently existing, or currently not existing present barriers to free access to these parks. Comprehensive trail plan, trails are identified by the Comp Plan in the area of the Bluff Creek Estates are depicted on the attachment as well. There are two north/south corridors identified on or abutting this parcel. There's a Bluff Creek alignment through the Bluff Creek drainageway which is currently identified as a turf trail. I would presume and recommend at some point in the future that when that entire drainage is acquired, that that be looked over and reviewed for construction into bituminous to make it more multi-purpose. And then the stretch of trail, off-street, that recreational trail along Audubon Road. - There's some background to this item. We initially reviewed it on January 28th. Since that time it's been on hold or been in the process of coming back to the Commission and to the City on a formal basis. In'addressing park issues as a part of this preliminary plat, the City would have the ability to acquire approximately 3 acres of park. Again, it's comparable to Greenwood Shores or a portion thereof if we wish to. The Commission has discussed that in the past. If acquisition of developable parkland was pursued however, the City would forfeit all or a portion of our $39,000.00 in park fees which we could currently collect. I ~do not advocate the pursuit of park property in this case for the three reasons stated. I will not go over those in detail unless the Commissioners have specific questions. It is the recommendation and concern of park property that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 2 ..""" the City Council require full park fees be paid as a condition of approval of Bluff Creek Estates. Fees to be paid at the time of building permit approval and the amount of park fees and in force at the time of building permit application. In regard to trails, as mentioned, the preliminary plat identifies the western 19.7 acres of this site as an outlot. This entire area is below the 100 year flood elevation and will contain a portion of the Bluff"Creek corridor currently turf trail as identified in the city's comprehensive plan. This outlot extends to the east in a bottle neck fashion abutting proposed Road E on the plat allowing for pedestrian access from this residential street. The second trail again is along the proposed Audubon Road alignment. Through consultation with the City Engineering Department, we do not require any additional right-of-way along Audubon Road to facilitate that trail. In fact as part of the sewer and water proJect which is incorporated as part of the Bluff Creek Estates development and then as well as part of stone Creek, we may have the ability to pursue development of that trail as part of that project. Putting in sanitary sewer down along that location. So in reference to trail recommendation, it is recommended that the Park Commission recommend the City Council acquire -ownership of Outlot A allowing for the continuation of the Bluff Creek preservation corridor and require the installation of an 8 foot bituminous trail surface from the proposed Road E to the rear of Lot 1, Block 1 and Lot 1, Block 3 as a condition of approval of this plat. In consideration for thts, it is recommended the City gi~e full trail fee credit to the applicant. That's in the amount of $167.00 per lot or...credit for that piece of property and that trail. Allowing that trail alignment back to the city. -fill Lash: Todd, can you point out, I'm not quite following you on the trail from Road E to what does it say, abutting? Hoffman: The reason exactly for that piece is to identify that as a trail connection. We've been in that situation many times before. The bottle neck is right in this area of Outlot A. It overlaps the Williams Pipeline easement and we would ask the applicaMt to go ahead and enter into negotiations for construction of that trail segment over their easement. That would not be allowed and they would need to shift that either to the north or south where it would be allowed. I don't presume it's going to be a problem. In the City of Victoria, they've constructed tennis cburts and vol~eyball courts and softball fields over the pipeline. But I can't say for sure. Lash: So that would be an access for people to get from Road E to the Outlot? Hoffman: To the outlot and then eventually to the north/south trail alignment as will traveling through that area. If you recall to the north of this site, this area was acquired as part of the Chanhassen Business Center to the north which goes into the railroad tracks and then underneath the underpass. There are also portions of easement to the south along the Sun Ridge Drive lots. Actually that first section of north/south trail on the corridor should be developed within the next 3 to 5 years. ..""" Lash: And that's a nature trail? ~Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 3 Hoffman: As it's currently identified in the Comprehensive Plan, correct. A turf trail. Nature trail. Lash: When I look at this I see we're lacking a little piece here because if we, if our hope is to have the people in this site be able to have access to the park up in the Hans Hagen site, they would need to have a way of getting there and that trail off of Road E would get them to the outlot. Then the trail going north would get them under the railroad tracks and then how would they get from there over to the trail that we've 'required on the Hans Hagen. There's that gap right there. Hoffman: Yes, that piece right there? That would be on street for the remainder of the way. That interim piece. Lash: So there will be a road there so that they can? Hoffman: Yes, correct. Lash: I I Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a couple of lots or something and people couldn't get through. Koubsky: Don't we have an associated easement in the Hans Hagen development on that east side? To bring that in. ,..., Hoffman: Over here? In this corner? Koubsky: Yes. Hoffman: That will be, actually that will be a dead ended street right here where eventually that street will probably come through and loop up to TH 5 in some fashion. That's where we would be accessing that. Lash: Has that plan changed from what we have here? Because that looks t6 me to be a lot along there. A lot and then a street and then another lot. Hoffman: In Hans Hagen? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: Which page are you looking at? Lash: I'm on the one behind your January 23rd memo. Hoffman: Yes, that plan has changed. Lash: So there's a road there? Hoffman: Yes. Schroers: The north/south trail then that would go along Audubon, that is ""'not designated as a nature trail than right? That would be part of a paved trail ? Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 4 ......, Hoffman: Bituminous off street trail. It's a pretty major link because eventually we want to get that connected down to the school...so theY can get down onto Lyman...down in the Chaska area. Schroers: Does the applicant have any information that he'd like to share with us before we ask for a recommendation? Jim Hill: Mr. Chair, no... Koubsky: I'm sorry, I missed that. Jim Hill: Mr. Chairman, we're here to answer to any of your questions. I can review the same thing that Todd has said. We'll answer your questions if you have some. And Mr. Anderson, Cecil Anderson, one of the prlnciple~ of Keyland Homes is here also this evening to answer your questions. Schroers: Thank you very much. well I think Todd was pretty thorough in critiquing us on this development. Do any of the Commissioners have any further questions? Berg: Yeah I do. Thank you. In 'your rationale, your 3 reasons for not pursuing park property. You talked about homes to be constructed wholly within the park service area of Power Hill Park, etc., etc.. What are we talking about in terms of distances? Hoffman: The distance is one half mile to the fringe oT Power Hill Park. The service area ring.. .configuration. The homes will eventually be built on the eastern portion of the property. This is where it drops off into the lowland on the outlots. So by comprehensive plan standards, one half mile, within one half mile, it does meet the specifications I've identified. My reference to inaccessibility stands currently because of the lack of road connections currently existing between the park and the - development site. This will change pote,ntially somewhere in the fairly near future because that will be a lot of...street connections will come through that area. In fact there currently is a street which dead ends out for future development right at this iocation...will be quite minimal where currently it would have to go out to Huron Drive and access down...!n this location to get to the park. At that time it would be just as close to go to Sunset Ridge... .....,I Lash: what facilities do we have planned to go into Power Hill? Hoffman: Power Hill Park includes the community sliding hill, potentially a tennis court or a neighborhood pavillion. Picnic pavillion. Play equipment and then on the north, farther northerly most piece is an open ballfield. Open playfield. Schroers: For the benefit of some of the newer commission members, in the past we had kind of set policy that in a sizeable development, if the acreage was less than 5 acres, it's difficult to support the recreational needs of development in an area less than 5 acres so it's kind of been our policy to accept fees in lieu of parkland when the acreage is less than 5 -' acres if we can and then those fees help us to afford to develop and refurbish the amenities in some of our other existing areas. It's a good ,..... Par k and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 5 way to generate revenue for us as well. As long as we can meet the service needs of the area. Erickson: Has there been any consistent policy in terms of taking that money and developing the parks that are closest to that development? Schroers: No. That wasn't really identified. It's more like city wide. What are the most pressing needs at the time. Lash: When is Power Hill in line for? Hoffman: Potential development? Currently they are working on Flamingo Drive which skirts the, just about the entire eastern border of the park. The developer in that location is bringing in the parking lot for the park and then the city will follow with final restoration work and begin mowing the sliding hill over the next 2 to 3 years. I don't recall specifically in the 5 year CIP but the play equipment does make it in that time span. Schroers: Any other questions? Can I have a motion? Well I will make a motion then. First on park property. I'll move that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to Council to require full park fees be paid as a condition of approval of Bluff Creek Estates and the fees are to' be paid at the time of the building permit approval in the amount of the """park fee in force at the time of the building permit application. Secondly on the trail, I move that we recommend to the Council that we acquire ownership of Outlot A allowing for continuation of the Bluff Creek preservation corridor and require the installation of an 8 foot bituminous trail surface from proposed Road E to the fear of Lot 1, Block'l and Lot 1, Block ~ as a condition of approval of this plat. In consideration for this, it is recommended that the City give full trail fee credit to the applicant. Is there a second? Koubsky: I'll second. I Schroers moved, Koubsky seconded that the Par~ and Recreation Commission recommend to require full park fees be paid as a condition of approval of Bluff Creek Estates and the fees are to be paid at the time of the building permit approval in the amount of the park fee in force at the time of the building permit application. Secondly on the trail, recommend to acquire ownership of Outlot A allowing for continuation of the Bluff Creek preservation corridor and require the installation of an 8 foot bituminous trail surface from proposed Road E to the rear of Lot 1, Block 1 and Lot 1, Block 3 as a condition of approval of this plat. In consideration for this, it is recommended that the City give full trail fee credit to the applicant~ All voted in favor and the motion carried. CARVER BEACH PARK; VEHICLE PARKING. Hoffman: Item 3 has to do with the vehicle parking at Carver Beach Park. """"A portion of the members of the Commission toured that site this evening. I believe the ones that did not have either been there in person or have been there during other Commission tours as well. The map which is included in your packet that picks the current situation down at Carver Beach in that Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 6 the entire road sections abutting the park are currently posted no parking. This has been an ongoing issue but one which I feel necessitates some further review. Essentially due to ADA but then again it's due to being reasonable as a city providing services to it's residents and other park users. To briefly review the scenario which has led us to this point. This spring, again as is always the case, persons started to utilize the park for fishing, recreating in the spring. Getting out of doors. Shaking out cabin fever. Those types of things. Many times you'll notice, you'll witness cars parked in the no parking zone and for the most part, the residents in the area tolerate that activity until it exceeds a certain level or until they just decide to go ahead and give a call either to the Park and Recreation Department or to the Public Safety Department to come down and have those persons informed officially that they cannot park in those locations because of the street designation~ That was the case this spring. On at least 3 occasions that I'm aware of, that persons received warnings that they were parked illegally and they would have to pack of their gear and move because the area was posted no parking. One that stands out is the two elderly women brushed into the CSO on duty that day that was called out to this 16cation as to their rights under the new ADA Act. Identified themselves as handicapped and questioned the officers as to where they should park for utilizing this public facility. He did not have an answer. In fact this was a Saturday afternoon and gave me a call at home. I had the same answer back for him. We do not offer any parking, either handicapped or non-handicapped at that location in the city. I believe it behooves us to take a look at this. To consider installing some parking. although it be minimal at this park location. To offer utilization by persons arriving at the park by motor vehicle. I do not believe it is reasonable to expect the use of that park.to occur without access by motor vehicles. As the map shows, there are currently 4 spots which were developed within the past 5 years at the south main beach location. Those are off street parking. Pull in, pullout type of parking off the street. It's currently a gravel lot and recommending to our street maintenance and park maintenance crews that we go ahead and invest th& time and material to blacktop that. To stripe the lot into four spots and to mark one of those handicapped parking as well. So we have that end of the park cleared up. What remains is the issue down on the north end in the area between the mini-beach, the so called mini-beach and then the existing dock. The fishing dock which was purchased 2 years ago ~nd canoe rack which as well as recently was installed and is utilized as well. We as a city and a Park and Recreation Department offer the service of a canoe rack where you would presume for a person to get their canoe there, they would have to drive a vehicle, unless they're very close to the canoe rack and then if they want to. come down and use it, would drive and park their vehicle to go ahead and utilize their canoe on the lake. So again this evening it is my recommendation that the CommIssion hold a public hearing inviting the residents of that area. Discuss this issue and then for the Park commission to go ahead and make a recommendation in this regard to the City Council. Whether that be for 3 parking stalls or 4 parking stalls. In referring to stalls, it's just the widening of the shoulder 4 to 6 foot Class V aggregate shoulder and then posting it parking between signs and then designati~g the handicapped stall. That would be all we are recommending. Forward that type of recommendation up to the City Council for consideration. ..."" --" .....,I ,...., Par k and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 7 Schroers: This would then be parallel parking basically? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: And it would seem to make sense then that the handicapped designated parking spot would be the closest one to the facilities. The canoe rack and the fishing dock and at that point I realize that there is quite steep topography along this area. When you get down that close as it graduated to the point to where a handicapped person could actually negotiate from that parking spot to either the dock or the canoe rack? Hoffman: It's flat. We discuased while we were there the distance issue and it is. It's right at the edge of being reasonable. But if we move parking farther up the street, then it would be directly in front of homes which would be more controversial. Schroers: I'm wondering why staff feels it's necessary to have a public hearing. Hoffman: Simply because of the. Schroers: To keep peace? ~Hoffman: That's one way of putting it. Schroers: Might as well get right to the bare bones. Lash: Well if it's been a controversial issue, you hate to go ahead with this without telling people what's going on. Hoffman: In my view, the entire development history, just going ahead and looking back into the file, this park has been perhaps not controversial is the word but residents in that area are certainly interested in what's going on there. Schroers: They are interested and they've been receptive and interested in the past to work along with the city on projects in that area. I guess just as an information thing to let them know what's going on without kind of surprising them is a good idea but I think it's unreasonable for us to develop new facilities like this and not provide parking. I mean that doesn't seem reasonable. Lash: Well we're not developing a new site. This is an old site. Schroers: This portion of the site is actually pretty new. There used to be an access there and now we took out that access. We put in a canoe rack. We've put in a fishing dock. We designated that area as a m,ini- beach and did some work in there. Lash: We haven't...money lately but it's not a new site? """" Schroers: No, it'~ not a new site but it kind of, it is and it isn't. Lash: We've been investing money into it. Park and RecCommission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 8 ...",; schroers: Yeah. We've had the property for a long time but like within the last couple years we've started to do something with it. Lash: I guess I'm going to admit my confusion a little bit. When we were doing all of this, I thought it was at the one farther south and that's where I thought the canoe rack was located, which then would have had par ki ng by it. And then a question I have about, the ADA, just for my own clarification. Does this apply to all existing park sites or is to new park sites and one that we are remodeling or whatever? Hoffman: That's to all park sites. All public facilities. Schroers: It's a State mandate right or a State law that applies to everything. Lash: It makes it kind of difficult when you have an existing site. Say you had Bluff Creek or say it was Power Hill and say Power Hill ,was basically just a sliding hill and the topography just would make it difficult for a handicapped person to negotiate it no matter what. What do you propose to do with something like that? Hoffman: You're supposed to find a reasonable compromise. At this site it's reasonable that we could provide both services and access for persons with disabilities. If you're at a site or a building or a facility which it is not reasonable to assume that a person with handicaps is going to want to participate in and if it's not reasonable from a financial standpoint to retrofit that facility, then you're not mandated to do so. ...,,; Lash: Okay. Schroers: This is a little bit off the particular subject here but for many organizations this ADA is just more than extensive. Doors have to be widened. Pay phones have to be lowered. Electrical things have to be rerouted. It's really extensive and it's going to hit lots of agencies real hard right in the pocketbook. Lash: I guess I don't understand why we put the canoe rack down there to start with. Koubsky: I think the canoe rack is on the southern one. Hoffman: No, it's at the northern location. Canoe racks were scheduled for both the north and the south. The canoe rack was put at the northerly location simply because of the ease of getting to it. Albeit the lack of -parking in the other location... Las~: ...but you could launch your canoe at another site and get into the canoe rack. Schroers: You could but you know if everything was at the main facility there, then that 4 cars parking lot wouldn't serve the needs of that either. That was another reason for kind of spreading things out there and ~ not trying to cram everything into one spo't. Because there really isn't room there to develop more parking.' ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 9 Lash: Well I don't have a problem with it. Are you looking for a recommendation to have a public hearing? Hoffman: Correct. , Lash: So we're not voting on the actual action. Koubsky: I guess one thought I had Todd. When the people call in, are there 3 or 4 cars down there? I guess I'm wondering how many people are parking down there. It seems to me you could put 4 cars in there without getting too far in front of the resident's home there. Hoffman: I would say 4 cars would be an extreme in it's current use. Koubsky: You mean too much? Hoffman: No, that would be an extreme of the current use that you would see. I'm not saying that's too much but more likely that there's one or two cars presently parked there when we receive calls. Lash: Well I can understand the no parking signs on the road as it exists now. Being down, having gone down there, it would be a safety hazard I think to have cars parked on the road. But if we can widened it into a ~safe, to make it accommodate cars and still make it be safe to drive down the road, I don't see a problem with that. Schroers: It should be safe because it's not on a curve there or anything. Visibility should be good. Koubsky: It's a very easy fix. Erickson: Todd, would it be appropriate to maybe consider 4 spots and then if we need to compromise we could say, okay we'll go with 3? Hoffman: Sure. Erickson: That way it looks like we're giving in but if they'll go with 4 and they think 4 is fine, that would just make that much more room for more people to appreciate the park. Hoffman: The thing we're looking at 2, 3 with a handicap. another story. you need to consider is if we're looking at 3 spots or with the handicapped we only have 4. We're looking at Now keeping the cars out of the handicap stall is Koubsky: We can always expand another parking spot too. It's just a matter of pushing some Class V over there. Hoffman: I would prefer once you go through a public hearing to put in 3, you're going to have to do the same type of issue to expand it to 4. ~ Schroers: I agree with Randy that we should for 4 and push that issue and say, and just explain it at the hearing that we need one spot for Park and Ree Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 10 .....", handicapped and that just leaves 3 addition~l. for less than that. It would hardly be worth it Erickson: The handicap would be on the end and that would be the one used the least so that would most often be open anyways. So the one that kind of, the one that you are down there by the one house that would have the sight of that, there normally probably wouldn't a car there anyway. I would assume. I mean most handicapped spaces aren't utilized as often as the other spots so that may be one way to approach it and mention it to. , - Koubsky: I'd go for 4. Good id~a. I think there's room for it. schroers: Okay, then if someone would lik. to make a recommendation in regards to having a public hearing regarding parking at the north end of Carver 8each Park. Lash: I make a motion that the Park and Rec Commission hold a public hearing for the residents of Carver 8each regarding the parking at Carver 8each Park on Lotus Trail. 8erg: Second. Lash moved, Berg seconded that the Park aJld Recreation Commission hold a public hearing to discuss vehicular parking at Carver Beach Park on Lotus Trail. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ...", Lash: How far will y~u be notifying people regarding this? Hoffman: As it exists, it's 500 feet. I'll make a judgment whether or not that brings in everybody that's potentially -a real-interested party. Koubsky: We'll indicate on that too that we're recommending 4 spots instead of 2? Hoffman: Correct. Lash: And make sure they have ampl. notification of the meeting. LAKE SUSAN PARK TO RICE MARSH LAKE PARK TRAIL CONSTRUCTION. Hoffman: This, is essentially an informational item and one which is pretty exciting. Hopefully if all goes well, within a month we'll have that piece of trail constructed in the city wit~out hardly an ounce of controversy in the recent arena. It has taken-2 1/2 years to get all the easements associated with this piece of trail cleared up. Now that that has taken place and then in coordination with that Market 81vd., TH 101 extension of south leg, we raised the question whether or not we should go ahead and construct this piece of trail along with that project. Underneath the funding of the road project. Those questions were answered to the positive so we are again moving forward with this project. schroers: Question. What about extending that trail along the north side of Lake Susan to connect with Lake Susan Park? I have ridden along that ..."", , 11"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting . May 19, 1992 - Page 11 side of the lake with my mountain bike and there's actually an existing road bed there, for all practical purposes. Hoffman: You're talking Lake Susan or Rice Marsh? Schroers: Lake Susan. Hoffman: This piece exists in here from there and then it crosses this bridge and it currently exists down to that location. Schroers: But it's not developed at this point? Erickson: It's paved, yeah. Hoffman: It's paved. Schroers: The pavement is in now? Hoffman: The pavement is in. It's been there for 2 years from this point back to the point... Schroers: it with my r'*" Lash: Maybe it was 2 years ago. It hasn't been there for 2 years. It was last spring I rode on mountain bike and if it was paved, it was covered up with mud. Schroers: No, I don't think so. I think it was last year. Hoffman: That section is blacktopped and if the Commissioners will recall, this section...Chanhassen Hills neighborhood was included in the 1992, this year's annu,l capital improvement budget. So we're taking a look at the design of that segment. This piece of trail will be the most interconnecting, best utilized and one of the most beautiful trail segments in the city. Koubsky: Todd isn't there, at Rice Marsh Lake, I was there playing T-ball the other night. Wasn't there a trail segment north alon~ Rice Marsh? It looked a Class V. .. Hoffman: Yeah. It's a road...in this location that traveled up toa lift station and Metropolitan Waste Control, Waste Commission, lift station in that location. Eden Prairie is reviewing developments of this parcel ~d we've been in conversation with them. If that comes in, we'll make a connection between the Eden Prairie, Chanhassen trail systems right at this location and make that connection down that existing corridor. This by the way lies on park property or Rice Marsh Lake park property. You make that connection and then you can access Eden Prairie and cross under the new trail viaduct under TH 5 and head downtown. Schroers: That is following that interceptor or whatever they call that? ~That went right through there right? Hoffman: Yep. This portion is following the interceptor. Interceptor, the sewer interceptor goes from this point and then it cuts down. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - P?ge 12 """"'" Lash: I have a couple of questions. First one, these little dotted lines here where Larry said, where you said there's a trail and Larry there's not. Okay, is that supposed to depict a trail or is that supposed to be the rest of Lake Susan Park? Hoffman: Yeah. That's the boundary of that long outlot which contains the trail . Lash: So then if you go down around the west side of Lake Susan, is that also park property and is the trail there? Or there's going to be a trail there? Hoffman: Yes. The developer put in this portion right here. They put it in some sub-standard so actually the willows are growing up through the. asphalt. That's in their development contract that they are to construct that portion of the trail from the northern reaches of their development down to the western edge of Lake Susan. So the.y're responsible for that piece and then we'll pick it up in this location and head south to Chanhassen Hills. Schroers: Wasn't there a deal there Todd where they went up to the creek and then stoppoed? Is that now, is that completed? Is there an overpass there that you can negotiate the creek? Hoffman: That bridge, very nice bridge which trucks will be able to travel upon. .....", Schroers: Okay, and then let's clarify this issue. I'm not telling staff that there isn't a trail there. I'm just saying last time I rode my bicycle there, it wasn't paved. Hoffman: It is paved. Lash: And then when you're talking about this getting done in connection some with road reconstruction, what road? Is there going to be a road going in there or what? Hoffman: Are you referencing the underpass? Lash: Well the whole dark black line. Hoffman: Yep...this is being constructed in conjunction with this Market Boulevard. Right now Market Boulevard dead ends right here at Rosemount. The entrance to Rosemount. This is coming through as the new main entrance to TH 101/Market Blvd.. That construction was haulted by the snow storm last year. It gave us time to clear up all our easements in this location and now this project is being added onto their construction contract as an add for the installation of this trail.. Approximately a mile, it's very easy to install because of the grade and there is one cottonwood about 8 inches in diameter that needs to be removed. So there is essentially no clearing and grubbing. Estimated in the field cost of that one mile of trail there is approximately $60,000.00 to $70,000.00. ~ Lash: And so the people who live back in. II""" Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 13 Hoffman: Hidden Valley? Lash: Okay. yards? We already had easements through the back of all their Hoffman: Correct. Lash: And they were all fully aware of that? Hoffman: Well some claimed they were not but that was a gripe back to their realtor. That was a long drawn out. process as briefly explained in the letter. The trail easement originally was on the utility easement which was up pretty high in the back yard. The City said well, we can work with you on that. We'll move it back down to the lowest point possible but you need to sign over new easement documents. Unfortunately at that time some of the re~idents said well, this is a chance to block this thing. We won't sign. We just kept the door open and said, well if you don't sign the new one, we'll just keep your old one and we'll have this trail jogging' back up and forth in the backyards. So it was a pressure process over that 2 1/2 years to get them all to sign. One person had an attorney working throughout the entire time and never did sign. But their piece of trail alignment works on the utility easement. He essentially would remain somewhat, it would have changed somewhat but not that drastically. And ,...... just as recently as when they staked this 1 i ne, the surveyors were out there. There was one kink remaining between two of the lots and we said we can make that even better. We'll move it down. We coordinated a meeting with the two homeowners. Said we can move that down. Make that alignment much nicer. You just have to sign. We have to design to the easements. You have to sign it over. They said fine. They have no problem with that. Schroers: I think that's great. Pemrick: I think it looks good. Schroers: Thanks a lot for bringing that to our attention Todd. Unless there are more questions or comments on that, we'll move on to item 5. ARBOR DAY CELEBRATION. Hoffman: Item 5, well actually the remalnlng items are purely informational. Oawne and I are coordinating the Arbor Day Celebration in honor of Arbor Month. . Press releases are being distributed. Commission members will receive a letter of invitation. It is scheduled for next Thursday, May 28th at 6:45 p.m.. That coincides with the starting time of the Athletic Association activities. So alas, we have a captive audience to use in our tree planting ceremony. Photo op. The paper will be there hopefully or somebody with a camera will be there. We're planting 2 of the 6 trees which the city received courtesy of Lotus Lawn and Gardens as part of our tree sale. We've identified a location just north of the warming house. Try to keep out of all the proposed construction activity in this ~area. We did acknowledge that is a playfield but at some point in the future it would be nice to have some nice mature trees providing shade in the middle of it. So we'll take a shot at it and plant one 2 inch hackberry and one 2 inch ash tree. The holes will be dug and we'll get a Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 14 -' couple of teams of kids to wrestle the trees into the holes and to cover them up at the planting ceremony. It will last approximately 10 minutes. Lash: What are you going to do with the other 3 trees? Hoffman: Put them out in some of the park sites which are cornfield parks. Koubsky: How many trees were ordered? Hoffman: 68 total. Koubsky: And the deadline on that was? Hoffman: May 4th. The program was well received. We had one tree which was a problem and that was a tree which was held over by the nursery from last year and everybody involved knew that it was going to be a problem so when it was returned to Lotus Lawn and Garden, th~y simply accepted it. Schroers: Okay, good. Then we can jump to item 6. SUMMER RECREATION PROGRAMS. Dawne Lemme: Again this is just another informational item...programs being offered this summer and will be in the newsletter...couple weeks so we can get some registrations going and the programs will start in June. -' I basically just listed, I went through the last year's newsletter and listed what's going to 'be offered again this year that was offered last ye~r. A couple of the programs have been expanded or age groups that were newly brought or kind of broken down into a smaller age group. And then... and then there's quite a few new classes and programs that will be offered this summer. We've got a fishing ~linic out at Lake Ann fOT youth. We'll be offering about 5 craft classes for children. Summer Sensations is kind of like a playground program. With summer discovery playgrounds we took out the 3 year olds. It's Used to be 3 to 12. We changed that to starting at age 4. We just thought 2 hours was a bit too long for the 3 year olds so...and that will be over at the Old Village Hall. We're going to try doing a teen barbeque out at Lake Susan. It will cost roughly $2.00, something like that. Where...the Rotary club and Lion's club to help sponsor...with chaska to get the information out. Because this is in August, it's going to be a challenge to try to get that information to everybody and hopefully we won't lose them by the time August starts but we're just going to really push it and go through the school and maybe even try to, I talked with one of the...Minnetonka High School about maybe with their mailing that g6es out to the kids in the fall, talk about fall school and all that, maybe we can put in a flyer of our own which will catch the kids one at a time. Also this is another thing we're, now that is bas~cally Chanhassen but Chaska will help advertise that. And then we're doing some trips for Junior High and that is in cooperation with Chaska Park and Recreation. We'll be taking bus trips to 5 different locations. We try to keep it as reasonable as possible. All we really hope to do is just breaking even. We're not trying to make a profit or anything. We just want to offer some opportunities for that age kid who don't have .....,I transportation and who's parents probably don't want to be... Are there any questions? Park and Rec Commission Meeting ."...., May 19, 1992 - Page 15 Schroers: It seems like an ambitious schedule. A busy summer. Lash: Yeah, I think last year we talked about the discovery playground thing and came up with some suggestions now. Was that looked at? I don't remember what they were but. Dawne Lemme: We went through the evaluations and a couple of things were people were asking for more. hours and more weeks and so we expanded it from 6 to 8 weeks and we also expanded it from one hour...and an hour and a half...so now it's going to be 2 hours. So they'll be given some more time. Lash: And then on the registration form that's shown later on in the pa6ket. Yeah, how are you supposed to know when you look at" the...? Dawne Lemme: After that went into the packet, I pulled it out. It hadn't been...and run yet but I did add to that...sharing locations but they'll have different leaders and different activities. Lash: But at the same time? Dawne Lemme: At the same time so that parents with kids in different age groups don't have to be bringing them there... ~Lash: Great. Because I think that was one of the things from last year. They were bringing kids at different times. Dawne Lemme: So that was added. Hoffman: Jan, we'll also go back and double check the Minutes of that discussion. Lash: I know we talked about it. I don't remember what we said thou~h. Hoffman: To insure that those discussion items are included. Schroers: Good. Good job. Thanks a fot. Lash: The trips for teens. When is that going to come out? The infor on that? Dawne Lemme: The flier just got presented to me, typed up...and she's planning half the trips and I'm planning half the trips. Lash: So do you think they'll be distributed before school's out? Dawne Lemme: Oh yeah. Lash: Oh, okay. "....,Dawne Lemme: Our goal is to have them out... Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 16 ......" 4TH OF JULY CELEBRATION UPDATE. Ruegemer: We just received ,the artwork today from our designer. Polar Enterprises, in developing the new T-shirt design for the 4th of July Celebration this year. We try to incorporate a lot of the stereotypes if you will, of Chanhassen. If you notice the sailboat in there. Fun in sun. We have the water. The waves in there for the water and the atmosphere. We have incorporated some of the, like the glitter from the 4th of July celebration into the artwork itself. So that's really going to be a nice design and 'I'll show you the 6010r scheme of that. The color scheme is going to be, if we can just take a look at it. It's going to be actual teals will be this color. Jades will be the other color and it will be a white puffed ink around the lettering. And like the sun here so it's really going to be a classy and a flashy looking t-shirt this year. They're going to be on an ash t-shirt, 50 x 50. That's cottOn and polyester so it's going to be a nice wearing, durable t-shirt. And also we're going to get some caps made too with the same designs on it. Try to get those...about $5.00-$5.50 and probably $7.00 to $9.00 for the t-shirts... Extra, extra large will probably be $9.00. schroers: Is that shirt basically going to be white? Ruegemer: No. The shirt itself is going to be'an ash. It's going to be a light colOr. It's going to be a lighter gray. Yeah, it's got a little bit of texture to it. So it's going to stand out. It's going to be a riea,lly nice looking t-shirt and the caps that we'll have, we're just going ~ to 'keep them basic. The same design but yet we're going to move the sun and that over here just with the printing complications. It's a little bit too busy for hats. We're going to eliminate some of the glitter. Keep the sun over here. Keep the sailboat, Chanhassen, the waves and jus~ drop in the 4th of July celebration. Just have it basically a Chanhassen hat. If we have any left over, we can give them away for prizes or whatever. So we're going to get a minimum order of those and see how they sell. We might as well try those sales too. I think, I've got a good feeling about those. That they'll go this year~ We otdered less than we did last year so we'll take it a little bit slower this year and see what happens. We have the option too of, with our pre-sales, if we do need more we can always order more in time to get before the 4th of July so... Theshirts were ordered and hats ordered today so we should have those in roughly about 10 working days. So we should have them by about the beginning part of June. Comment Jan? Lash: No. I can't believe that we're talkin~ about the 4th of July already. Ruegemer: Yeah, we're going to have those items here for pre-sales. We'll have those going~ Hoffman: Volunteer incentives. Lash: Did we talk last year about getting more big ones? Hoffm~n: We always have. ...."I Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~May 19, 1992 - Page 17 Lash: It seems like the big ones go...yeah because it seems like people want big ones even for their kids. Ruegemer: I think roughly we had, what was it, 25 adult smalls and like 20 maybe mediums. And a majority of large, extra large and extra, extra large. So we're trying to accommodate to the masses here so we should be okay that way. And we have the opportunity too to also order more if we need to at that time. Lash: They make good door prizes. Or when we had the raffle, or what was that that we had last year? Hoffman: Raffle board. Lash: Yeah. Those were good prizes. Ruegemer: Yeah, they worked out really nice. To date, as of today we have 21 people at businesses that have donated money or gift certificates or prizes. And we have, virtually they keep coming in every day so we're, it's encouraging to see them keep coming in. So we're in good shape that way. Contributions keep coming in and we're busy putting, finalizing the schedule of events. We're busy with promotion. We're going to have the fliers of the fishing contest, both adult and the youth. The softball ~tournaments and everything out in the streets by the week of, the first . week in June. So we'll be in a lot better shape this year in getting that information out. We're going to incorporate this design in all our promotional advertisement so it's easily identifiable throughout the whole community. We're working on other promotional items such as squeeze bottle or cups with this design on it to give away as promotional prizes or prize give aways for the carnival and such. So we're busy with that. We're going to get an insert in the Villager the 25th of June, which is roughly 2 weeks before the celebration and then we'll follow up with a feature story the week before. Or that Thursday before. Is that the 1st? I believe July 1st. The day before the celebration starts just to implement that in and get that hyped up again. Basically we're just busy with promotion and getting everything put together. We'll have a schedule of events and everything out by the first part of June. Is there any questions regarding any of the promotion? I think Dawne, do you want to touch at all on the schedule of events? Dawne Lemme: For the most part it's, just from looking at last year's things, it looks like things are pretty much the same. We have cut it down to a2 day celebration though because it runs over the weekend. It's going to be on Friday and Saturday. The things that have been moved from Sunday are the adult fishing contests. That's been moved to Friday morning and the adult softball tournaments have been moved to Saturday. So there will be nothing really going on. Lash: The adult fishing contest is Friday? ~Dawne Lemme: Friday morning. Lash: When is the 4th of July? Park and Rec Commission Mee~ing May 19, 1992 - Page 18 ....." Dawne Lemme: Saturday. Lash: So you're assuming that most people have Friday off? Ruegemer: Everybody should. That's a national. Lash: Is it? Ruegemer: Yes. The 3rd, Friday. Hoffman: We put out an informal poll and we could find nobody that would not be getting the Friday before the 4th off. Anybody here think they're not getting that day off? Lash: And then the men's softball tournament is Saturday? Dawne Lemme: That's going to be Saturday rather than Sunday. Lash: When's the kid's fishing contest? Dawne Lemme: That's Saturday also. Lash: I hate it when that happens. Hoffman: It's a condensation of events. --' Lash: What happens is the kids are down there trying to fish and then' their dads are playing ball and then the moms are the ones who get stuck having to take the kids to the fishing contest. Berg: Who baits the hooks? Lash: . Well I don't know. It gets to be a real problem because nobody wants to touch the worms. Last year was great because the fishing contest was a different time and that was the first year that I remember that that happened. So then the men could go and do the fishing contest and then they went and played ball later or maybe our team ju~t didn't play last year. It seems like it was on a different day though. I remember somebody ~aying they thought that was neat. schroers: I think it is kind of nice though not to tie up the entire 3' day weekend with festivities and the staff and all the volunteers and ' everything, it's nice for people to have one day to themselves as well... (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) Dawne Lemme: ...The kids fishing contest will be from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. and the softball tournament will go from 8:00 in the morning until 6:00 at night so there's just a couple hour overlap there. On Friday there will be the kiddie parade, the trade fair. Concessions will be both days. There will be the horse rides again. We'll probably have some clowns, jugglers, caraciature artists, face painters, the carnival games, the square dancers are coming back and then the street dance. The street dance ....", will be the Hi-Topps again performing for that. ~aturday there will be ~he Park and Rec Commission Meeting ,.... May 19, 1992 - Page 19 fishing, the softball tournaments, treasure hunts, sand sculpture, fire department demonstrations, family games, inner tube relays. Jeff Brooks will be coming back and possibly one other singer to cover the other area of Lake Ann where it's been a little bit quiet. And then the fireworks. Berg: I hate to ask, what has the commission volunteered to do in the past? Lash: Everything. Berg: Whatever they feel like, right? Lash: You do everything. Hoffman: We'll get a list out to you. Lash: You get a t-shirt. If you whine really big at the gate they let you in for free. If you really give them a hard time. Hoffman: As well as it's always been an unofficial policy of the city to have everything conclude at the fireworks. Pemrick: I think that's great. /""""" Lash: I wish it was that way every year. Ruegemer: Do the commisioners have any more questions regarding the 4th of July? Lash: Last year...we had some suggestions didn't we but I don't remember. If it was have it longer or. Ruegemer: More prizes. Pemrick: You just said it was a real hit. Hoffman: Bring out the notes. Erickson: Do Commissioners get to light the fireworks? Hoffman: Fortunately no. You can witness it. Be real close as a commissioner. Schroers: You can throw matches towards the explosives until you get arrested. Lash: And Jim had a suggestion. I think I remember him talking about the steps...afterwards for people going up. We were going to have flashlights or something down there to help so people didn't fall. ~Hoffman: Public safety coordination. Schroers: Sounds like a lot of fun. We're looking forward to it. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 20 ......" Lash: Are you looking for volunteers now or are you going to wait until June? Dawne Lemme: We'll wait until June. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATION. Lash: I have a question. Again I'm just full of questions tonight. I'm sorry. A parent came to me at school yesterday because she knew I'm on the Park and Rec commission and she lives in the Timberwood area. She had a question about swimming lessons and registerin~ for swimming lessons and she said because they're not in the Minnetonka School District and no one in their mailing route delivery is in the Minnetonka School District or is on their mailing list, they don't get any thing about swimming lessons or registration at Lake Ann. And she was wondering if there was some way that everyone can be informed of the schedules and when the sign up is. Then she said something, and I've never signed up for it so I don't know how this works but she said there's a lottery system and she felt that if you're a Chanhasse'n resident and the swimming lessons are in Chanhassen, that Chanhassen residents should have priority if there's only a limited number of spots for something like that. I told her I'd bring it up. Hoffman: Admitingly, this year that, it's a bad scenario. When we had 'control over our quarterly publications when they were solely under Park and Rec, we coincided just about exactly with Minnetonka so everybody received the same information at the same time. And we went so far at ~ that time to accept registrations. To include a registration form for Minnetonka swimming lessons in our brochure which they then had to send up there. Now that the newsletter has gone all department wide, we've lost control over that. Thus we've lost control over the publication date so this year ,that's a problem. If that continues in future years, we should be looking at an additional mailer to cover the remainder of the residents in Chanhassen. Lake Ann Beach and the services we off.er there are just too valuable. So I can see her point. Ruegemer: That information is included in the summer brochure. It just hasn't hit the streets yet. Hoffman: So again, it's not timely information however. Lash: So has registration already started? Hoffman: It's out. Ruegemer: Yeah... Lash: So registrations are being taken but there's a portion of people in C~anhassen who have no idea? Hoffman: Has it been included at all in the paper? Ruegemer: No, it wasn't included in the papet. -"" Lash: And then what's the lottery system~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~May 19, 1992 - Page 21 Ruegemer: You have up to a certain date to either mail in the registration and then after that they open it up. The lottery is just kind of random. Lash: So if you register by mail you get in and if you do it by a certain date or something you're guaranteed a spot? Ruegemer: It's not guaranteed but you have a better chance. Berg: And then our publication will go out before that deadline? Ruegemer: 'I'm not sure what the deadline is but we're hoping to get that out... Lash: spots? Do we always have way more people wanting lessons than we have Or why is there a lottery for it? Hoffman: Typically at some of the other beaches, Lake Ann is a larger program so there's not as many cuts made but at some of the smaller beaches which Minnetonka Community Services operate, there are. I'm not awar~ that it's been a big problem. Lash: Yet there are people who are getting turned away from swimming lessons. ~Hoffman: Not in numbers which have created a situation that I've heard about. Lash: Then why is there a lottery? Hoffman: At the other locations, they coordinate 7 beaches so at s~me of the other locations which are more crowded, they need that lottery. To make the system uniform, they apply it throughout their entire 7 beaches. For your interest, we'll go ahead and ask for the numbers, registration numbers and lottery system numbers so that. Lash: If it turns out that people are being turned down, then maybe we need to expand the times that we offer lessons. Is that possible? Hoffman: John Rabe, through coordination with myself parents from the Lake Ann location, have amended that to expand it additionally. I'm sure we can do that. it, we just simply pay for it. and suggetsions from program. If need be That we'll have to do Lash: But as far as you know people, I mean so her concern about getting in this lottery, there shouldn't be a concern about it because she doesn't have to worry that she won't get a spot? Hoffman: I can't say that for sure but I know it's less of a chance. Less of a likelihood at Lake Ann. ,.... Lash: Okay. Pemrick: I had a question. who has jurisdiction over the Legion ballfield at TH 101 and TH 5? Is that Park and Rec or is that American Legion? Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 22 -' Hoffman: We schedule it. pemrick: My daughter attends New Horizon a couple days a week right behind there and when I picked her up last week the kids were running on the field because their lawn had been treated with a chemical for weeds. And the aid told me that they were told they couldn't run on that field. Is that correct information? Hoffman: By a Legion member? Pemrick: I don't know. They said we talked to the people in charge and they said they didn't want the kids running and I think that's pretty poor that kids can't run out on that grass. Ruegemer: What time was it? During the day? Pemrick: Yeah, about 4:00. And you know, I mean those kids aren't out that long anyway. For my daughter it's not that big a deal but some of those poor kids are in that daycare 10 hours a day and if we have jurisdiction, they should be allowed to run and play on that grass I would think. Hoffman: I can only speculate who it was but it is still, it still remains the property of the Legion. We ~imply operate it as a location for youth activities. So the representative of the Legion does have some 9uthority to go ahead and say, you were not authorized under our current agreement ~ with the city to be here. I can only presume they were probably scared about liability. Pemrick: Okay. So it wasn't anything that came from the city? Hoffman: Correct. Not that I know of. It may have been that one of the scheduled ball teams. Ruegemer: ...scheduled ball teams or the AAU age group, 13 to 15 and they usually start about 6 :00. . . Pemrick: But they were having so much fun and it just hurt me to hear that because I thought oh, you know, it's such a nice wide open space. They should be allowed to run and jump and play. Hoffman: Valuable property. That field won't be there for long. pemrick: I believe that. Lash: Isn't that the Target site? Berg: No. Target is talking the west side. Lash: Oh, the one with all the trees? Hoffman: Proposed. One of the proposed. ...." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ,.... May 19, 1992 - Page 23 ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION AND PRESENTATIONS. Hoffman: Does anyone have anything in particular to address in the Adminstrative section? It's nice to see that we were able to contribute to Judd's acquiring the rank of Eagle Scout. Lash: The Ballmeister thing, do you know anything about that? When was registration for that? Is that already closed? Ruegemer: The flier just went out today. It's an extension of the Rookie League games from last summer that was put on by the Gophers from the University. NCAA prohibits them to do such camps as they did last summer so we just made an extension on. Chris Ballstrom will be doing the instruction with the help of some former professional baseball players. It will be an instructional day camp. Day training. It's basically the same format as last year with a few other items put in there like the... So it should be fun. They're going to be offering it for boys and girls. Lash: You guys have a lot of neat summer things planned. You really do. Schroers: We do have three packets of Minutes coming out for next meeting so unless we have something official, I'll call for a motion to adjourn and then we can have a social discussion after. ~Hoffman: I've got one adminstrative presentation Larry. I'd just like to pass along thanks. I've been hearing considerable positive response to the Commission members input at the Council level. Both from Council members and then staff members as well. They find that real advantageous to have that presence there when issues come up. In fact I used it for my b~nefit last night. I was ill yesterday. Jerry contacted Randy to attend the meeting. Last night the park survey, park needs survey was on the consent agenda. The item was pulled off and they discussed it briefly. Council recommended some minor changes which Randy understood to a degree. I'll have Randy just touch on what they talked about on the changes and then that, it was approved and the survey will be going out sometime in June. Erickson: One thing Todd that I noticed right away was just a typo in the first question. And you probably noticed that too but my sharp eye, it's Park and Recroation. But anyway, you might want to look at. The Councilwoman that pulled it out and took a look at it was just, we'll go to the easiest part here first. The part I understood. On question 5 it says how much would you be willing to pay per month in additional property taxes to fund the park acquiaition development projects and then it has $1.00, $2.00, $3.00. They had no problem with that. The next question was, what is your age. I know we discussed that a little bit when we were looking at the questionnaire but she just thought it would be better to have a couple of separate age ranges to circle. She said in her personal opinion, if she was filling it out, she would be a little uncomfortable putting her age down. So she thought it would be good to change to age brackets which I think would be good too. ~Lash: I thought that's what we had wasn't it? Pemrick: I thought we threw that out. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 19, 1992 - Page 24 ....,,; Erickson: I think it was in the original one and then we changed it. We had some reason. Anyway, she thought that would be appropriate and I don't think that's too out of line. And then the one that I wasn't too sure I understood was Question number 3 and that was, in response to the last park and recreation needs survey conducted in 1987, a large number of residents identified trails as being an important part of the community. Most trail segments are constructed as part of road improvement projects, many of which the city is currently involved with. The following questions enable you to present a position on trails in the city of Chanhassen. The first one you can make is, I am not in favor of a recreational trail system in Chanhassen. The second one was, Ia~ in favor of a recreational trail system in Chanhassen and would vote favorably on a t~ail expansion bond referendum, tax increase in parenthesis, to assist in the expansion of the city's trail system. And there was a check for ~ther. The Councilwoman felt that there should be another segment in there that, as I understood it said, favored a trail system that interconnected or that ran along major thoroughfares like TH 101 that connected with city streets without having to put additional trails and sidewalks through people's neighborhoods that were necessary. Is that basically how you understood? Hoffman: Essentially what I was communicated by other staff members was that, they'd like to define between a recreational trail system, as many people may recall the entire map which was proposed as part of the past referendum. Define trails on major corridors. Road arterials and collectors. ....-I Lash: So would that be another whole separate option or would it be incorporated in the one that says I would support a trail plan along major corridors and vote for a bond referendum. Hoffman: I still haven't gone through the entire thought process but I would just at first glance would recommend that we go with redefining what we've meant by recreational trail systems... Erickson: Yeah, I think that's what she meant. Lash: Maybe there should be another one that would just say I'm in favor of trails on major corridors being pursued at the time of, like we're doing it now basically. Without a referensum. Koubsky: Yeah, that's kind of an either or. You're either not for trails or you're in favor of a tax increase for more trails. People can be in favor of trails without the tax increase. Erickson: That was part of the point that she brought up. I was a little baffled at this point... 5chroers: That kind of gives them an out just like last time. They can. be in favor of it but they don't want to pay for it. Which kind of leaves us... Okay, anything else on adminstrative section? ...", Park and Ree Commission Meeting .tI"""'- May 19, 1992 - Page 25 Koubsky moved. Erickson seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Ree Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim ,... "