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PRC 1991 03 26 "... CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MARCH 26, 1991 Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.. - MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Dawne Erhart, Wendy Pemrick, Larry Schroers, Dave Koubsky, and Jan Lash MEMBERS ABSENT: Curt Robinson STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; and Bruce Chamberlain, Van Doren-Hazard- Stallings APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Lash moved, Koubsky seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation meetings dated March 12, 1991 and February 26, 1991 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Public Present: NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. INITIATION OF -MASTER- PLAN. PHEASANT HILLS PARK. Name Address "'" Mark Ridderson Gary Kluemake Eric Rivkin Steve Slyce Dave & Mary Dezellar Becky Jessen Mike & Lori Schwartz Dave & Renee Granos Mike Filippi Don Hasek Dan Gabler Nancy Febry Mark Williams Pat Johnson & Mary Cor.dell Jim Bergeson 1811 Lake Lucy Lane 1711 Wood Duck Lane 1695 Stellar Court 6511 White Dove Circle 1731 Wood Duck Lane 1741 Wood Duck Lane 1821 Pheasant Drive 1740 Wood Duck Circle 1731 Wood Duck Circle 6520 White Dove Circle 1780 Pheasant Circle 1710 Teal Circle 1655 Lake Lucy Road 1730 Lake Lucy Road 1661 Wood Duck Lane Hoffman: As the Commission is aware, each time a new parcel of land is brought into the park system of Chanhassen there are a series of events that take place in it's evolution eventually to a park. One of the most important in the initial meeting is the neighborhood meeting to begin gathering some information from the area residents who the park is intended to serve for the most part. To find out their interests. The structure of their neighborhood. What age children they have. What their interests are and that type of thing. So we have sent out the mailing to all of the residents in the Pheasant Hills area. A majority of the residents in the Lake Luch Highland area and invited those people in. I did receive two letters and then a call today from people are not able to make it. Upon hearing the comments from the people in the audience then I'll go ahead and address those particular concerns of those people. You did have the opportunity to review an aerial photograph of the site so the Commission is """ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 2 ....." familiar with some of the topography and the terrain which the 11.67 acre site is comprised of. There's wetland areas. There's some fairly flat prairie type areas and then there's also a steeply wooded bank and a hill as well in the make-up of the park. There's also an aerial photo. As the neighborhood came in, they could take a look at that. Then we have an overhead as well that we can use during the discussion in generating ideas where particular facilities would fit on this site. So with that I would allow Chairman Schroers to go ahead and invite comments from the audience to hear their wishes and again, I thank everyone, all the residents this evening for coming in. Please feel at your leisure to get up and address the commission and staff as to what you feel is important as far as the development of this particular park. We also have with us tonight from Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings, Bruce Chamberlain. The park planning firm that the City typically uses in this type of situation and Van Dbren-Hazard- Stallings will be assisting the City in developing any eventual master plan for this site. Schroers: Okay, thank you Todd. We would be interested in hearing comments from the residents. What we'd like is if you could come to the microphone and state your name and address for the record and let's get on. Mike Filippi: My name is Mike Filippi. I live at 1731 Wood Duck Circle. I have a couple of concerns. I guess the biggest one is it's my understanding that they want to put a road or consider to be putting a road in and parking lot that would go directly onto Wood Duck Lane. I have 120 feet of frontage right here coming off of the circle. If that road goes ~ in, as I understand they're considering, I have a very, well several concerns. On a personal level, I'm going to have headlights hitting my living room, deck, the porch area where my children are playing. Anyone of you misses the stop sign or slides thru it or whatever, is going to end up in my back yard where my children do play. My 4 year old and my 6 year old. That's obviously a very personal concern of mine. But a major concern also is the amount of traffic that it would bring into this neighborhood. Right now it is a dead end. There's all cul-de-sacs. An awful lot of children back here that ride their bikes around and they can do it safely as I think there's only one or two residents back here that don't have children so everyone drives very carefully knowing that their kids can be out there too. Start bringing in a lot of traffic from a park for baseball games and hockey games and what not, it's no longer going to be safe in my opinion for those children which are a very young age and just learning how to ride and ride safely. To be playing in there, we have a road down here with basically no homes on it. One driveway coming up this way. One that goes in here which I guess is also proposed subdivision for right in this area. But for the most part no risk to the children. Nobody's riding their bikes back along this road and if we can put an access here, maybe a little diagonal parking or something along that nature, it will be a lot safer for all the children and that would be my main concern at this point. As far as what I'd like to actually see at the park, let's see what the budget says. I'd like to see obviously a ball diamond. Maybe a hockey field that can double as a soccer field. Things along that nature, depending on how many years it's going to take. Children's swingsets. Things along that line. The kids might be too old but the next generation could bring them in. ..."" ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 3 Schroers: Okay, thanks. Can I ask where you got the information that a parking lot was to be put there? Mike Filippi: Rumor. I don't know if it's true or not. Hoffman: Just to clarify. The resident across the 50 foot frontage which the park property does abut Wood Duck Lane there, called and asked about the potential access to the park. My response back, if there was going to be vehicular access to the park coming in off of that side would be more accessible, it may not be more appropriate coming in off the Lake Lucy Lane side because there's not a grade. There's not an access available off of that at Lake Lucy or the south side of the park. So there's, no one ever said there's going to be a parking lot in pheasant Hills Park but if it was considered, that would be the site which staff would consider the only pedestrian. Mike Filippi: This one? Hoffman: Correct. Other than that, coming in off of the other side you're confronted with a wetland area and the hillside. " Mike Filippi: I understand that but I also know that when this was a proposed development, the City had no problem at all with the developer putting a road in on this side. In fact he was considering either bringing it in and back out here or simply bringing it in, cul-de-sacing it and having a single access and at that point in time there was no objection from the City to put a road in here. Hoffman: The plan to develop that never got to that point where there would be. Mike Filippi: On this drawing. Hoffman: Just proposals. Mike Filippi: ...my understanding when we came in about the development for the park that it was very close to being approved as was laid out. Hoffman: Yeah, there were a lot of loose ends. Mike Filippi: This is a very small area and I think you're referring to Renee Perkins who asked me also to speak for them because they live there and I live there so we!re neighbors and they couldn't make it and they asked me to speak for them as well. Their concerned with the traffic and the parking lot. This is not a very big lot. There's no way you could do a parking lot there anyway. You'd have to do a culvert in there just to get a road through. I think it'd be a great place for a bike path or walking path so that access could be brought in from here but as far as the traffic and everything, you'd have a lot more I think parking area if all you did was widened this slightly and put angled parking in here. You'd have an awful lot more than what this little 50 foot lot's going to give ~ you. Thank you. Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 4 ...."", Schroers: Thank you. I think one thing that we want to bear in mind here is that I feel the City and the Park and Rec Commission as well is looking at Pheasant Hills as a neighborhood park. Not the type of a park where we would encourage the use of the area for organized types of athletics and sports where we would be drawing a bunch of people into that area. It will be a neighborhood park for the people that live there and most of the use would be walk in. Okay? Next. Eric Rivkin: Eric Rivkin, 1695 Stellar Court. The people across the street from this park, Mary Cordell and Pat Johnson who live right here also asked me to speak for them tonight. They couldn't make it. They were instrumental in helping the City acquire this park and their voice should be equally heard as well. I live on Stellar Court which is right over here somewhere and ~e anticipate using that park pretty heavily. I would agree with the comments that yoU made Larry about the park being a neighborhood park and not drawing a lot of traffic. I am concerned about the affect it is going to have on the Pheasant Hills people in having traffic come through here and park here. I also don't think it would be a good, since the park is relatively small and whatever space, flat area we do have should be utilized for the activities, I don't think it would be a wise decision to use the area, any area in the park itself for parking cars. The Cordell's and I feel that maybe taking a little edge off of Lake Lucy Lane and putting some diagonal parking for maybe 5-10 spots on the north, on the park side of that road would be plenty good enough to have people park. It's no a long walk obviously to do what they're going to do. We'd also like to see some connection between, to go through from Pheasant Hills through to that maybe parking area. Maybe a walking path, bike path for baby carriages and strollers and people want to walk with maybe some picnic tables in the tree groves around. We would like to see a totlot put in as soon as possible. I think that's high on our priority. Our kids, there are many, many dozens of children here that are of that age and before they grow up too much, we'd like to see them utilize that. My 7 year old son, I asked him what he wanted in the park and he would like to request to have a totlot structure similar to the one at Lake Ann. I don't know if there's any room for a full sized ballfield per se but we would like to see some grassy area where you can spread out and play any kind of ball sport. You know catch, soccer and maybe put up a hockey rink in a corner of it or whatever. Some kind of open mowed area to allow for everything from frisbee playing to doing some ball and catch and a little bit of ad hoc softball. I don't know about the, I think the safety issue about the parking is something that should be taken into consideration. I know the park should be accessible to everybody in Chanhassen. There should be some parking but I don't think it should be, like as you say, determine the design of the park or anything like that and take up lots of room. And as far as we're concerned, I think some gentle solution to the parking problem I think on Lake Lucy Lane might work. .." Schroers: Can you tell us Eric, is there any reason that you can't park just off street parking on Lake Lucy Lane right now? Is there signs that say no parking? Eric Rivkin: I don't think the shoulder is wide enough right now. With the right-of-way that the City has, I think that they could widened the .."", ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 5 shoulder enough that you could have head in parking in there and then allow for safe door opening and stuff. I don't think you'd want doors opening onto the street. They could parallel park there right now. There are not no parking signs on that road I believe so it won't change anything if you do have parking on that street so the expectations are the'same. Schroers: Alright. Are you calling Lake Lucy Lane and Lake Lucy Road the same thing? Eric Rivkin: No. Lake Lucy Road is this one here. That's a wider paved road and Lake Lucy Lane comes off of that. That's a much narrow road and narrower shoulders but I think some head in parking rather than off of here. There's some dry land right here. I don't think you have to end up filling any wetland or anything like that to kind of go down in here and put space in for about 5-10 cars. Thank you. "...... Dave Dezellar: Hi. I'm Dave Dezellar, 1731 Wood Duck Lane and I live on the other side of the 50 foot variance next to Rick and Renee Perkins or I guess across the street. I guess I'd like to address the parking problem as well. Be it a rumor or not, I don't want it there. My wife doesn't want it there. I don't think the neighbors want it there. For selfish reasons, I bought the lot that I did because it's private. It overlooks the 13 acres which is now going to be the park. I'm all in favor of the park but I just don't want any traffic going by my house late at night, early in the morning. Any time of the day so I guess I would just like to voice my opinion for the record that I'm opposed to any parking lot on this end of the development. As far as the Lake Lucy Lane, I believe that there's room on the right side of the road as you're heading west for cars to park on the shoulder. There's a couple cars there now that park there now because their driveway is being, it's kind of sloppy and it's bad right now. But on the other side of the road I would say no but on the one side, on the north side I would say yes. There's room to park at least 10-12 cars parallel parking. Thanks. Schroers: Thank you. Is there anyone else of the residents who would like to speak? Jim Bergeson: My name is Jim Bergeson and I live at 1661 Wood Duck Lane. I've lived in the Pheasant Hills area for a year now and I'm just curious, I am all for wildlife. I'm appalled at how a lot of other states have not taken the steps that states like Minnesota have to preserve wetlands and wildlife areas. However, I'm real curious about the designation of this area as a wetland because the only time I've seen any water in there was just a couple weeks ago when we had the runoff going in there and we had the ground still frozen so it wasn't able to drain but I think as of today it's already drained out. And I don't recall seeing very much wildlife in there to speak of again because there's not a lot of cover. There are obviously a lot of deer in the area. We need to preserve that in the wooded area but again I would just raise the question that I know this has probably been designated by some authority as a wetland or a lowland or wahtever but I'm curious if it really is supporting any wildlife to speak of. And if it is necessary to again preserve it, if it isn't supporting wildlife. I know across the street there's a great area there that was ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 6 ....., water, etc. and I'd ask the neighbors that have been here longer than I have to challenge me if they've seen a lot of activity in that area. Resident: Are you talking about the lowest spot closest to Lake Lucy Lane? Jim Bergeson: Right here. Resident: I can't see that. Koubsky: Yeah, that's what he's talking. Resident: Yeah, there's water in there. Mike Filippi: It is wet and if I'm not mistaken, the legal definition of a wetland is baesd on vegetation that grows there and what is growing there does qualify it as a wetland. It doesn't necessarily mean it has to be wet. Jim Bergeson: I've never walked through there but again, just observing every time I drive by, it doesn't look like it's deep enough to support... Nancy Febry: Hi. I'm Nancy Febry. I live at 1710 Teal Circle which is just off of Wood Duck Lane behind Mike Filippi and I've got 3 daughters, 10, 8 and 6. I guess top priority is kind of like a totlot or you know a jungle gym type of thing in the park. I agree with the neighbors about not having any more traffic on Wood Duck Lane because like you said, it is a dead end. We really like that. The children can pretty safely ride their bikes and play and you don't have to worry too much since all the construction is over now. And I like the idea of it being more of a neighborhood park and I think that when they're talking about off of Lake Lucy Lake parking there, I think that would probably work if you could angle it. A bike trail off Wood Duck Lane or some kind of walking trail or path would be in order. I guess that not having any organized sports there, baseball or softball or hockey games I think would be probably a good idea. I don't know that there's that much room for all those activities there anyway. Thank you. ....., Schroers: Any more comments from the residents? Don Hasek: My name is Don Hasek. I live at 6520 White Dove Circle. I guess I don't understand if we need parking at the park or not. If this is going to be a neighborhood park and the people in the neighborhood are supposed to use it, if we put a walkway off the other side like everybody's been talking about, I'm not sure if we even need parking. If we have parking there would that encourage other people to come to this park that's supposed to be just used for the local area? So I guess I'd be opposed to even putting parking in the area at all. Schroers: Okay, thank you. Mike Filippi: Can I just ask? You've got a lot more experience than I do with this. What is the historical useage of an area like that? Is it historically neighborhood or does it eventually become more and more "W1fI' ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 7 people get drawn into the area. It gets busier and busier and busier. Schroers: No. Neighborhood parks really don't lend themselves to attracting a lot of people from the outside for several reasons. One of which is they can't accommodate large numbers of people. They don't offer the types of facilities that larger groups and numbers of people are looking for and because most communities have their own little area that they go to so it really doesn't draw. When you have a large complex like Lake Ann where we have the regulation ballfields and that sort of thing and a beach, that's going to attact people but neighborhoods generally draw, neighborhood parks draw from their own residential area. People that normally walk or bicycle in to the park. You probably know virtually every person in there. In the park. You see very few strange faces would be my guess. Resident: What type of equipment do you typically put in on a neighborhood par k li ke this? ,.... Schroers: That depends. One of the reasons that we're having this meeting here tonight is to get input from you who live in the area to find out what it is that you would like there and then when we get that information we'll, staff will pass that onto the planners and the design people and they'll try to layout a concept to see how these things work to fit into the area. Then they'll bring it back to us for review and then we'll refine it and it will go back and forth a couple of times generally before we actually get something that we like the way it's laid out and is workable. You will probably have a chance to come back in. Or not probably. You will have a chance to come back in and look at the concepts when they are put together. So basically what we want to do is just get input as to what you would like to have in your park and we'll just forward that information to the design and planning people and see what can be put together. Lash: And we're somewhat limited by the size. This is a large park but we have some neighborhood parks that have gone in that they're 1, 2, 3 acres and obviously we can't have as many facilities on them. I don't know how much of this area is actually useable and all of that will be put together in the plan. But as an example we're doing a park over in the Herman Field area that we've been working on. Those residents went around their neighborhood with a survey and asked all the neighbors to prioritize what they would like to see in the park and I think that's been very helpful for us to come up with a phased system so we know what to put in first and what to tackle each year as we have the funding available. So that would be a suggestion for you. If you're interested in prioritizing what facilities you'd like to see in there. Schroers: We also do consider facilities in the immediate area. What other close neighborhood parks have and so we don't get too much duplication of the same types of things. We like to get a little bit of variety so that we don't have all the same facilities allover. That way you can move around from park to park and enjoy different things. ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 8 ....." Bruce Chamberlain: I'll address a few of the comments that you had. I'm Bruce Chamberlain at Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings and I'll be working on the concept development for the park area. I just want to emphasize that at this point we're just trying to get as much input from you as we can. I just want to be kind of the facilitator. The person with the pen that writes down your ideas on this park. So I'll address your comments about, everyone's comments about the access off of Wood Duck Lane first. As far as the concept development stage, we'll be looking at any possible alternative as far as access into the park. There hasn't been anything designated as to what will be happening in the park at all yet. And it is possible to come off of Lake Lucy Lane. Is that what it's called? Access is possible. So don't go away thinking that access has to come off of Wood Duck on the north side because it doesn't. And we'll be looking at all the issues. Resident: Are you talking about a vehicle access? Bruce Chamberlain: Vehicle access. Resident: If it's a neighborhood park, should we be emphasizing vehicle access? Bruce Chamberlain: Possibly. Resident: Could it be a walking path or a bike path or that type of thing? Bruce Chamberlain: Sure. ...." Resident: Because it's a neighborhood park and we don't anticipate a lot of people coming to this park. I guess I'm not really excited about a lot of parking spots or vehicles parking on the side of the road. Maybe you have to have a couple. That's possible...but vehicle access, I mean anywhere, I don't think anywhere is keen on that because it's a nice pretty area. There isn't, whether it's marshland or wetland or not, I think we should try and keep as much of it natural as possible. Natural park. You know the formal structures are great for the kids. Teeter tots or whatever you call them. The climbing things but there's nothing wrong with preserving the site as it is and just giving us more access to it... So a few structures here and there. An open area and limited access as far as vehicles. Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, okay. Someone brought up the question of whether there's enough room for a ball diamond and there is. Whether that's something that you want in your park or not is up to you I guess. Resident: It would be a ball diamond and that's it? That's our park? Or would there be a ball diamond and maybe a totlot and a basketball court? Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, but as far as, right now I'm talking about large open play areas. There's enough room to accommodate a ball diamond. So just so you know that. ..." ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 9 Resident: Would it be like a, are you talking a regular ball diamond with gravel infield? Bruce Chamberlain: Could be. All I'm saying right now is the space is available. I just want to, somebody brought up that point. I just wanted to make it clear that there is room if that's a desire. Resident: But that would require a lot of grading and a lot of maintenance. Bruce Chamberlain: It would require some at this point. We're not sure what. And the only other thing I wanted to say is space, even though it's 11,,6 acres is limited because of the wetland on the south side and there's a fairly steep slope running through it too. So that limits a lot of the facilities that can be put in the park. Just so you know that. If you have any questions throughout this, give Todd a call and he can get to me so don't feel like you don't have a say or you can't give us call because you can and I'll take anything that you say into consideration. Resident: What is the time line? When this is going to start. Hoffman: I think we'll address that a little bit more in our commissioner's comments as well as we go through it. ~ Resident: There's a river I believe that runs from the top of that hill. Isn't there a small little river or creek. How far does the park boundary go.. . Eric Rivkin: It's hard for me to get through an evening here in this chamber without addressing environmental issues but I'd like to kind of take off on some comments that a gentleman made in the blue shirt there about natural features about this park. I don't know whether this is a Class A or a Class B wetland. I believe it's a Class B wetland because there's no open water and cattails. Is that correct? You already know that? Hoffman: The other wetland up here in the corner is a Class A wetland. Eric Rivkin: This is Class A and this is Class 8. Hoffman: They vary but they both are protected wetlands in the city's ordinances. Eric Rivkin: Okay. We're going to have a problem with mosquitoes. We already do obviously and we're going to have them whether this is treated or not by the Mosquito Control District. We could virtually eliminate the use of harmful pesticides that are used to kill adult mosquitoes that we use in our park's currently...mosquito habitat which is our largest nuisance mosquito. And by creating an open water habitat we could possibly take the soil and put a duck nesting mound in the middle of it which is typically done in a lot of parks to improve wetlands. There would be benefit proven. There's some neighbor, one of them is here tonight and there's another one that's building a house right across here. 80th of ".... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 10 -' them are involved with the Department of Natural Resources to improve their Class B wetlands to upgrade them to water foul habitat. And they're being reimbursed by the Department of Natural Resources so I don't think that you're going to face much increase or expenditures in improving that wetland. If you go for, if it does involve a lot of money, I think the worse that you would ever see is a 50% contribution by the local community and a 50% paid for by the State through certain kinds of programs. There's Legislative Commission of Minnesota Resources LCMR grants. There's the RIM program. Both of which, you know the City has applied for in the past and could probably apply for again. I've been doing a lot of investigating about the Mosquito Control District, as some people may know, and I would like to see some elimination of the adulticides useage in the parks. These are the foggers that you see on the 4 wheel vehicles going through the parks. There are known scientists from the Technical Advisory Board on there from the University and U.s. Fish and Wildlife Service have told me that there have been studies done that show that these pesticides kill birds and beneficial insects. Not just the mosquitoes and cause allergic reactions in people. I would like to see, because their residues stay on foliage and if you walk on a trail, rub yourself on the foliage and since there are playgrounds near-by, children are more susceptible to these, I would like to. Schroers: Eric, I think that's something, that's an item that should maybe be addressed and discussed on a city wide basis concerning all the parks. It doesn't pertain only to the agenda item that we're dealing with right now. ~ Eric Rivkin: It just addresses the improvement of the wetland could possibly eliminate the use of chemicals. That's all I was saying really. So just a consideration as a design feature you know, an improvement of that wetland. Schroers: Okay, thank you. Mike Filippi: As long as we're throwing in ideas for a park. Are there any parks or what is the city's stance on the possibility of like open pit fire areas where we could do some sliding in the winter... Is that something that could or not be incorporated? Schroers: Do you want to answer that Todd? Hoffman: Currently there is no city ordinance that limits that, no. The Commission takes varying stances on providing,bar-be-que or open fire pits in neighborhood parks. Many neighborhood parks do not contain bar-be-que areas because the residents feel they can do that type of thing at home. If there's a special interest for a pit area for a bonfire type of use or small fire type of use in the winter, that could be incorporated. schroers: Okay. Is there anything more that the residents would care to add? Okay. At this time then. Hoffman: Larry if I may, go ahead and enter these letters into the record for your information as well. -'" ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 11 """ .iI"" Schroers: Okay. Hoffman: The first one is flom Tom, Carol, Sarah, Paul and Mark Droegemeuller. Dear Park and Recreation Committee. If I were to prioritize the wish list, this would be the order. Ballfield complete with team benches and backstop, two tennis courts, full basketball court, picnic area, drinking fountain, Satellite, grills, playground equipment, parking area and volleyball pit. Lash: Ambitious. Hoffman: Immediately a need is an area for big kids to play baseball or soccer. If we are to develop our park area gradually, the ballfield idea is a top priority. That is grading, seeding, etc. in 1991. This alone would create useful park space as we wait for further development through the years. Next the tennis courts, basketball area, ideally a full court basketball court to allow for two, one-half games at once. Considering the size of this area and the population, we think two tennis courts aren't excessive and should be separate from the basketball area. A picnic area would be great. Pheasant Hills hosts a neighborhood party for four years. Average gathering size is 80 to 100 people. We have held the party in pheasant Circle. I'm not suggesting we design around this size gathering but we've established a tradition and would more likely move to the park site as development of the park enables it. A picnic table and a couple of grill grates would be very nice eventually. The drinking fountain, Satellite bathroom idea however is a real need in any space designed for kids to play. The playground area should be geared towards big kids as well as the toddler set. A full swing set at least. I read somewhere that swingsets are the most timeless of playground equipment and appeal to the most people. I'm in favor of the regular playground versus the totlot idea only because most little ones, and we have plenty in the area, have their own swingsets, jungle gyms, etc. and don't venture out of their own yards on their own. The big kids can't play their games in the yards or streets safely anymore and therefore I place their needs above the toddler set. As long as we're dreaming, let's throw in a volleyball pit someday if it fits. Thank you for your considering our wants and needs in this design process. Tom, Carol, Sarah, Paul and Mark Droegemueller. Second one is from James E. Schwartz and family, 1870 Partridge Circle. Our whole family was ecstatic when we learned that the land off of Lake Lucy Road was going to become a park. This in fact gives a focal point to the neighborhood. Every child should have some type of park where they can go play and feel a sense of belonging. Our family will be out of.town on March 26th yet we wanted to send our comments. We feel that the park should evolve as a small park. We took the time to walk the designated boundaries and up the hills yesterday. Several issues came to mind as we thought about the potential manner in which it could be developed. Number one, plans must include an access from Pheasant Hills development. This may make the park more accessible to neighborhood people and therefore used. More important is to allow people to walk the park rather than to drive. This is an important part of the earlier plan, i.e. build a boardwalk or cross the outlot wetland that the City already owns. A park is just land unless people can access it to use it. It would be great if there was a mechanism to allow interested individuals and/or families to take part in the Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 12 ....",. building or just the cleaning up of the area. Number two, early plans could include a trail plus basis landscaping and picnicing facilities or simple chain down tables i.e. to reduce vandalism. Other earlier plaDs should include a play equipment and park benches, basketball and/or volleyball courts would both add activity units. We tried to suggest certain low cost, high impact areas which lend themselves towards meeting the needs of the residents of Carver County. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance. Thank you and your committee for considering our views in these options. Schroers: comments. Okay, thank you. We'll open it up now for commissioner Jim, would you like to start us off? Andrews: Sure. I'd like to thank the people who did attend from Pheasant Hills. This has been an exciting project for ourselves as well that we weren't sure ever was going to happen and we're very pleased that we could at least acquire this land. One comment was made about a time line when this project might be done. I think you have to consider that, especially with the civic project, that these projects move very slowly. Funding is going to be extremely tight for this season as well as I would imagine the next several years. We're just in the preliminary planning process now. I would think that it would be some years before it would be a finished product as far as ballfields and major improvements. I made notes about and I've heard a lot of comments about the play areas, totlot. A lot of people voiced the importance of lower impact. Leaving some area wild or natural and I think with the trees and the hills, this creates an unusual ......, opportunity for us as a Park Board to preserve some wild areas. I think that's important. r'm sure we'll be having further meetings to discuss the plans as they're presented by our architectural firm and at that time we have a better opportunity to see what things might be added like a ballfield, which I think a ballfield or a grass field which could be used either as a ballfield and a soccer field would be I think a good thing to consider. Schroers: Okay. Erhart: I'd also like to thank the neighbors for taking time out and coming in and expressing some of their concerns and amenities they'd want to see in the area. I think we are looking a little further down the road here. I think we're not going to have a lot of money to work with at this time and also I've made notes on first of all your access road off of Lake Lucy Lane which will be addressed and the open ballfields or a play area. Picnic tables and a totlot. We will keep people in touch once we have a plan here and the time limit and go from there. Thank you. Pemrick: I agree with the first two commissioners here. Their comments. I want to add that while parking can be a nuisance if it's near your home but I think the idea of putting it on Lake Lucy Lane would make more sense. We need to keep some parking there just for handicapped accessibility and I think we own that to any resident that would need that. Maybe even two spaces or something. Something like parallel parking could be a solution there. If there is a wide shoulder along that lane and maybe just a sign parking here to here or something. Another thing. I guess I hadn't -' ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 13 thought of this, about the totlot equipment being more prevalent in the individual homes and we should be addressing the older children. I guess I would tend to agree with that, especially since maybe this development won't occur for a few more years and at that time it sounds like this is a fairly young neighborhood and maybe it would be more available to more children at that point to have older type of playground equipment. picnic tables again are very important in a family park. I'd like to see some nature and wild spaces left as is. Those are my comments. ,...... Koubsky: I'd like to thank you all for coming. I had the opportunity to walk the area Monday, or was it Tuesday? No, today's Tuesday. Monday it was a nice day so it was a good opportunity for me to get out of the office and go out and look at your neighborhood and I was really taken by the beauty of the park and the hill with the trees there and just the area in general. I did enter the park through that little outlot and was kind of surprised that there was even rumors and it was news to me that that could turn into an access road. I guess I support most of your comments that you made here today that you would not like to see that as an access road but more possibly of a 3 or 4 foot you know paved asphalt walkway and I tend to agree with that. That approach. I guess my outlook on totlots is they're easy to design in here. If it got to a point where we would decide to construct, if you decided not to have them, we could look at it at that point but I'm from a real new neighborhood also and even watching all the kids come out and all the new baby carriages the last couple of days is kind of startling. I'm kind of in favor of totlots. It's a good place for parents to go and gather and talk. So I like the idea of kind of a smaller area. You walk the area and you can kind of see where you can build and where you can't without incorporating a lot of site grading and I think you'd probably be aghast if the bulldozers came and started tearing your trees down and filling things up. So I guess I would like to support you in that. I don't see a road coming in on the north end of the park. Hopefully we'll get something designed here and feed that back to you and you can have a chance to see something on paper and give us some more feedback. Lash: I'd like to thank everyone for coming tonight too and I'd like to thank our staff for sending letters out to the residents in a timely fashion to allow them to be able to be here tonight. I agree with the residents' concerns about the access off of Wood Duck and I guess I'd just go along with everybody else that we should look at the southerly most access for parking. I didn't care for the idea of head in diagonal parking where people would have to back out onto Lake Lucy Road. I just think in a park area where kids are biking and people are walking, I just don't like people backing up out onto a road when that's going on so I would like to look at other alternatives to that. I think as far as picking any specific site, it's pretty hard to do that at this point not knowing what facilities will be there and where we can have them and if we had a parking area and all the other facilities are on the other side and people have to walk through the wetland to get there. We just have to look at the whole picture when we get the whole plan so I wouldn't support having it up off of Wood Duck but I think we need to see the whole plan before we can get real specific on it. I too would like to see us maintain as many of the natural areas there as possible. We are working on another park at this ,-... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26~ 1991 - Page 13 ...." thought of this, about the totlot equipment being more prevalent in the individual homes and we should be addressing the older children. I guess I would tend to agree with that, especially since maybe this development won't occur for a few more years and at that time it sounds like this is a fairly young neighborhood and maybe it would be more available to more children at that point to have older type of playground equipment. Picnic tables again are very important in a family park. I'd like to see some nature and wild spaces left as is. Those are my comments. Koubsky: I'd like to thank you all for coming. I had the opportunity to walk the area Monday, or was it Tuesday? No, today's Tuesday. Monday it was a ni~e day so it was a good opportunity for me to get out of the office and go out and look at your neighborhood and I was really taken by the beauty of the park and the hill with the trees there and just the area in general. I did enter the park through that little outlot and was kind of surprised that there was even rumors and it was news to me that that could turn into an access road. I guess I support most of your comments that you made here today that you would not like to see that as an access road but more possibly of a 3 or 4 foot you know paved asphalt walkway and I tend to agree with that. That approach. I guess my outlook on totlots is they're easy to design in here. If it got to a point where we would decide to construct, if you decided not to have them, we could look at it at that point but I'm from a real new neighborhood also and even watching all the kids come out and all the new baby carriages the last couple of days is kind of startling. I'm kind of in favor of totlots. It's a good place for parents to go and gather and talk. So I like the idea of kind of a smaller area. You walk the area and you can kind of see where you can build and where you can't without incorporating a lot of site grading and I think you'd probably be aghast if the bulldozers came and started tearing your trees down and filling things up. So I guess I would like to support you in that. I don't see a road coming in on the north end of the park. Hopefully we'll get something designed here and feed that back to you and you can have a chance to see something on paper and give us some more feedback. ..."." Lash: I'd like to thank everyone for coming tonight too and I'd like to Dhank our staff for sending letters out to the residents in a timely fashion to allow them to be able to be here tonight. I agree with the residents' concerns about the access off of Wood Duck and I guess I'd just go along with everybody else that we should look at the southerly most access for parking. I didn't care for the idea of head in diagonal parking where people would have to back out onto Lake Lucy Road. I just think in a park area where kids are biking and people are walking, I just don't like people backing up out onto a road when that's going on so I would like to look at other alternatives to that. I think as far as picking any specific site, it's pretty hard to do that at this point not knowing what facilities will be there and where we can have them and if we had a parking area and all the other facilities are on the other side and people have to walk through the wetland to get there. We just have to look at the whole picture when we get the whole plan so I wouldn't support having it up off of Wood Duck but I think we need to see the whole plan before we can get real specific on it. I too would like to see us maintain as many of the natural areas there as possible. We are working on another park at this ...., ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 14 time that, like I said, Herman Field which has some nice natural areas in there and I think it was a goal of the neighborhood and this commission to preserve those as much as possible. I think we may be looking at the same kind of situation here. But as I suggested before, I really think for you people to get together and let us know and get organized and do a survey now and maybe as this whole thing progresses over the next few years, check back with people and see if the wants and the needs are still the same. If the people are still there or if the kids are in the same age bracket and just keep us updated on what you would like to see in there. One small thing, I have a question for Todd on this. Is this being called Pheasant Hill Park or Pheasant Hills? Hoffman: The development is Pheasant Hill. Lash: It is? Okay. I just always thought it was pheasant Hills. I thought it was a typo on here and I thought well before it goes any further, we'd better get it fixed, but okay. Schroers: Alright, thanks. One question that keeps coming up is the time frame for development. I talked to Todd this afternoon and if I correctly interpretted what you're saying, we have basically expended our budget for Pheasant Hills Park in the acquisition as far as for this year's coming or for this coming year we may be able to do some clearing and seeding and that sort of thing this fall. This coming fall? ." Hoffman: Correct. Back up one step further. We really over expended our budget on acquisition as the Commission and residents already know. 1991 budget contains money to develop this master plan so that is what budgeted dollars are for the capital improvement program in 1991. As residents know, there is some debris in the park up off of Wood Duck Lane. There's an abandoned car in that park and there's many, many large dead trees in the area. Any type of work activity which the park maintenance crews would partake in in 1991 would come this spring with some initial clearing of the area to get that abandoned vehicle out of there and any dangerous wood type structures which there is one particular area which is piled up fairly high with, I believe it's an old fort built by the neighborhood kids. Then potentially later on this fall, some initial, very initial clearing of the area. Again, then in the fall would begin the 1992 budget process and the development of the budget for the fiscal year 1992. That is the next opportunity that the commission would have to discuss the overall park acquisition and capital improvement budget and that would include any improvements for Pheasant Hill Park in 1992. Schroers: Okay, thank you Todd. Resident: Can I interrupt you for one second? There...plans for the 50 foot variance? Right now it's exposed mud and dirt. Dirt in the summer and mud in the winter. It's quite a mess. Hoffman: What he's eluding to is, it's typically somewhat of a neighborhood drop site for leaves, material of that type of thing and that was cleared up, the bulk of that was cleared up last year. Maintaining that area would include basically mowing of, you know there's no grass ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 15 ....." turf. It's not established there. There are yards on both sides and mowing that to, you know there's no grass or sod would not be planted at this time unless we deem that necessary but that area would be mowed and maintained to a more desireable level. In the past, before it was not under city ownership, it was just left to grow wild as weeds. Schroers: Okay, thank you Todd. But generally what we're going to be looking at then is actually 1992 and 1993 for development and that is going to be in lieu of how we decided to budget the park funds that we have for those fiscal years. I think it's important to point out that we represent the entire city and we have to be fair with the allocation of funds and if we stick $100,000.00 into one area one year, you can't go back and stick another $100,000.00 in there a second or third year and avoid giving it to another part of town that is just as much in need. So I hope you'll bear with us on that because it's pretty much just like your own expense account. There's just so much money to go around and you do the best with it that you can. We have to be fair about it. Yes. Mike Filippi: Two questions. Number one, would the City have any objection if the neighbors were to get together and seed that lot and then keep it mowed in a proper fashion? And number two, if we so choose to all get together and possibly do some fund raising efforts amongst ourselves, is there a way to insure that those funds would be designated for this park? Schroers: Would you address that? I would say yes to both but I would let .....",' Todd clarify that. Hoffman: Correct. Yes. Definite yes to both of those. Schroers: Okay. Let's see I had a couple other little notes jotted down here. I guess what I would like to see from staff and from the design people is two concept plans. One favoring a more active use type park and another one with the more passive use plan in mind. And when those concepts are done, we would have another meeting and get the general response and get a better feel for what the area will accommodate and where and how to best use it. I think what we have to do is come up with a happy medium. In the best of both worlds you're going to want some active use amenities for the kids to participate in and you're also going to want to keep it nice so there's going to be a balance and some fine tuning there that's going to need to be done after we get to see the concept plans. Unless anyone has anything further to add, I would just like to say thanks very much for coming tonight. Make sure that you have your name on the list so we can contact you in the future. And Mr. Mayor has a comment. Mayor Chmiel: Just those who were representing other people. Put their names down who you're representing this evening so they'll get notification as well. Schroers: Okay, thank you very much for a~tending and we'll let you know as things develop. ...." ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 16 VISITOR PRESENTATION: Schroers: regards to right now. live. We have two residents in the audience that have a concern in the boat parking at Lake Ann Park so we'll take those comments If you'd come up please and tell us who you are and where you "'. Gary Coprin: I'm Gary Coprin. I live in Greenwood Shores at 7052 Tecumseh Lane in Chanhassen here. My wife and I frequently use our canoes to canoe the various lakes in the area including Lake Minnewashta, Lake Ann and Lake Lucy. We portage from Lake Ann to Lake Lucy and I think that's done illegally but that's neither here nor there. We like to put our canoe on a trailer and trailer it over to Lake Ann Park and then use the boat launch there to launch the canoe. There's no need for a boat launch obviously with the canoe. We could launch it anywhere but it's easiest, the access is easiest at Lake Ann Park. What we find often times, after we launch the canoe, when we drive up to the parking area that all of the parking spots in the parking area are taken up by picnicers and there are plenty of parking areas in the other parking lots nearby. Even so they seem to favor that area because it allows access not only to some picnic areas on that knoll there but also to the fishing pier. But for us who like to trailer boats around and launch canoes and small boats at Lake Ann Park, we find that we don't have anyplace to park our cars because those are the only parking areas where there's enough length for a car plus a trailer and what we'd like to see done is have signs posted at that area saying parking for cars with trailers only. Lash: Can it be lined differently too? Hoffman: Yeah it could be. It could be signage at the end of the stalls as well and then either checkered or painted lettering describing the parking requirements there right on the asphalt. Schroers: Thanks a lot for bringing that to our attention. I feel kind of bad that we hadn't thought of that and taken care of that ahead of time. It should have been done. I've noticed it down there myself. That there are people just using that as a regular parking lot and don't think about or consider leaving space for the boat trailer. So I think that signs are the answer and it may not even hurt to add to the sign that says parking ordinances enforced. Thank you. RAILROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY TRAIL IMPROVEMENTS. NORTHWEST CHANHASSEN. Hoffman: As the Commission is aware, this particular trail improvement has been bounced around about the last year and a half to my knowledge. Originally when it was brought to my attention, I was under the assumption that that portion of the railroad right-of-way was within the City of Chanhassen. As noted in your report, that is not the case. You can take a look at the map behind you as well. As it's shown there, it looks like the right-of-way in the upper most upper left hand corner falls just within the boundary of the city of Chanhassen. However, the city base map is incorrect. The line is actually just south of the railroad right-of-way. So the entire right-of-way is within the City of Victoria. All the way ,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 17 --," from that point where you just enter Shorewood back down into downtown Victoria and beyond out west of Victoria just a little ways. So originally we had approached it from a position that the City was responsible for a portion of the upgrade of that trailway because it was within the City of Chanhassen. After meeting with Curt Oaks and Wint Gay, the Street Maintenance supervisor in Victoria, my position changed somewhat on that. The City of Chanhassen and the residents in that area and the residents of the City in general still receive benefit from the trail but the trail itself does not fall within the city borders. The discussion that day at that meeting, as it always does, generally focused around dollars and who was going to pay what amount in this particular improvement. The estimate to improve the segment from TH 7 where it is completely now on the south side of TH 7 up through that area and then up to the Shorewood border where the trail is finished as well so this is just one small segment inbetween which is left incomplete, is $7,500.00. Ideally they'd like to see us pick up half of that cost. I have a hard time justifying that because only about half of the entire project, this entire $7,500.00 for the project even lies adjacent to the City of Chanhassen. And then as well that half, what it came down to is I would feel the responsibility to the upgrade of about, paying for about 50% of the upgrade of the portion of the trail that lies adjacent to our city border. It lies within the city of Victoria. They would be responsible for upgrading or continuing maintenance. We have no obligation in that regard. The estimated cost for the actual material, the rock material to complete that section was 205 tons at, I believe it's $2.35 a ton. The amount to purchase that one-half of that rock would be $1,075.00 and then it's also recommended that we provide the manpower and the truck to transport that material and coordinate that improvement project with the City of Victoria when they complete it I believe sometime in July. There's also attached, as I went through the file on that particular trailway, a letter received from the Mayor of Victoria, Gerald Schmieg back in May of 1990 expressing their wish that the City of Chanhassen participate in this particular project. As shown there, the original estimate was $10,000.00. That has since come down to $7,500.00. --' Schroers: Thanks Todd. I spoke earlier about this with Todd. I have a particular...It gives you bicycle, pedestrian access all the way to Carver Park which is a very nice amenity and going the other way all the way into Minnetonka Mills into Hopkins so this trails serves a lot of people. I've been on it several times myself and it does get used a lot. And putting in this last connecting link to really turn it into a nice amenity to have. Todd thinks that he can sell this proposal to the City of Victoria, then I'm all for it. Richard Wing: It seems right at the heart of this is Excelsior. Do you know what their stance is on improving their portion of this trail? It goes from Victoria to Hopkins with one short segment that goes through Excelsior. Do they have any intentions of improving that portion? Schroers: You know I don't think that we have had any conversation with the City of Excelsior itself and that same question was on my mind because basically you have to go, the trail for all practical purposes stops at, where is that, St. Alban's Bay? It's paved and then you get down to Carson's Bay and then it goes into aggregate and then from there east it --' ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 18 goes good but the portion between St. Alban's Bay and County Road 19. I don't know why that isn't done but that is just about, not even fit to walk on really. It's the old railroad bed itself. The ties and things have been taken out. The tracks is not there but there's been no improvements made after that so it's really a bad area I think. I'd be interested in finding out from the City of Excelsior what their intention is. Richard Wing: I think west of...chosen to upgrade. I'm sure the portion from County Road 19 uses Tonka Bay at that point and Excelsior picks up and then Greenwood. Those three cities. I'd be interested to know what they're saying and what their intentions are. Lash: I hate to be a wet blanket, and I think it will be a nice asset too but I guess, I have a problem with this, as small amount of money as it is. It's in the city of Victoria. It's not in Chanhassen. I don't see why we should have to pay anything. If Victoria decided to put a trail that people in Chanhassen wanted to use, I wouldn't think we would pay for that the same if we decided to put a trail out here and people from Victoria were going to use it. I don't think they should have to pay us to use it. I think if Victoria wants to do it, that's great. They can do it and if people from Chan want to use it, that's great too but if it's in the city of Victoria, I don't see why we should have to pay for it. .11'" Schroers: Are there any other commissioner comments? Erhart: I guess I would just like to know how that discussion all came about that we would contribute anything to it being that it was in Victoria Todd. And did you talk to the Mayor about us supplying half of the rock? You haven't talked to him yet about that? Hoffman: Hor it originally came up, a year and a half ago and I had somewhat less contact with the project in particular but at that time it was everybody's assumption that this portion of the trail did lie within the City of Chanhassen. At that time some preliminary discussions were held at the Park and Recreation Commission's level. There were no dollar amounts mentioned. There were no half contributions mentioned. They were mentioned but they were not solidified. The only direction the Commission gave at that time was to pursue this activity. To pursue the upgrade and to date that is exactly what has continued. However, now this sheds a little different light now that we only lie adjacent to it. The right-of- way is not owned by either the City of Chanhassen or the City of Victoria but it does lie within the City of Victoria. It's the right-of-way of the Northwest Railroad and it happens, it's also the corridor that's potentially identified as li~ht rail transit at some time down the line. Nobody believes that we have to plan on that so that is how we've gotten to this point. Andrews: Have we contributed to funding to any other trails that would lie in another city but adjacent to our property? Our city property? Hoffman: Not to my knowledge. ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 19 ...." .Andrews: I've got one more question. Have we received any cooperative funding for trails that are in our city from other adjacent cities? Are any of those cities contributed to our trails? Koubsky: There's Cathcart Park up there though. Hoffman: Yeah, Cathcart Park is within the City of Chanhassen and operated by the City of Shorewood. But that's a park issue. Currently there are no trailways which lie on a bo:rder li ne of the City of Chanhassen any other city. Erhart: If we didn't supply half the rock here, would the project be dead then? Hoffman: I can't make any guesses as to how they would approach the project. There's other ramifications that do entail the city of Victoria with the Minnewashta Road upgrade. The Council is certainly aware. The Commission may not be aware, as Minnewashta Parkway is upgraded, the road and the trailway, the last southerly portion of that road project and trail project does fall within the city of Victoria. You can reference the map there. As TH 5 goes west and then cuts, Minnewashta Parkway cuts north, that little triangle is within the City of Victoria so it's not that this is the only cooperative effort which the City of Chanhassen and Victoria is going to be operating under in the future. Lash: Okay, so if we are going to be upgrading this road and we decide that we want to put a trail along Minnewashta and we make the decision to do that, then I would think that we would be obligated to pay for that even though this small segment would be in Victoria. If we make the decision that we want the trail to continue on to be a completed project. That would be our decision and we would therefore pay for it, I think. This is in the City of Victoria and if they make the decision to have it in and to complete it, then they should pay for it. ...." Hoffman: city but the road proposed We can't the decision as a city what to put in somebody else's we can certainly go after that type of desire. The road project, improvement upgrade does include a 6 foot concrete trailway as so it is part of that project. Schroers: Dave, did you have a comment there too? Or are you done Jim? Andrews: I have one more I guess and that would be, this does not pertain directly to this project but I guess I'm a little bit concerned about a precedent being established here about the cooperative funding. Either way really. We've talked about the need of a trail along TH 101 between the City going up towards the north part of Chanhassen which would be, we have always taken the approach that we would like to contact Eden Prairie and look for their cooperative funding even though it was likely to be in the Chanhassen side of the road so I see both a positive and a negative here about either providing cooperative funding in something that does not lie in our city or at the same time if we were not to provide any funding for this project, how could we then go to Eden Prairie and say we'd like your --' ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 20 help on a substantially more expensive project with a substantially higher useage? Schroers: Good point. Lash: Well that is a good point and I guess, but there again going to Eden Prairie. We have no idea how they're going to respond to that. Andrews: That's right. Lash: And I guess I wouldn't fault us for trying just like I'm not faulting Victoria for trying. You know why not if they can get us to contribute, you know more power to them. Koubsky: I've never been on this bike trail. It doesn't seem to me like a lot of money to cooperate with a neighboring city. I understand and kind of feel torn. I understand and agree with both comments but for me it's not a lot of money. I know with the budgets and all cities are tight. We do have a parcel of property up there that's maintained by another city other than ourselves that we utilitize and enjoy. I guess I would be in favor of negotiating some sort of agreement with Victoria and helping in some type of way. More as a gesture. j!I"'" Schroers: Okay, thanks. I had pretty much the same idea. I think it's a small price to pay really for what we stand to gain for it. The completion of that trail is going to service a lot of people. It's going to open up a nice avenue for people to use and enjoy and also I feel keeping the relations on a positive note with our surrounding communities is real important. I would envision that we would be working with Victoria several more times in the future, especially as Chanhassen expands towards the west and we're going to want their cooperation in the future. And they're probably going to want some from ours and this is basically, this is drastically reduced from the original amount that we were thinking of and I think that it's kind of a good faith offering. I'm sure Todd considered that when he put this together and if Victoria would buy this, I"think it would be more than acceptable. Lash: Do we have money in our budget? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: How much do we have in? Hoffman: Again, during the CIP budget allocated $40,000.00 for miscellaneous we can't forecast them in the future. of item is certainly, can fit into the proposal we took a look, we trail projects which come up becausE They just pop up so this small type 1991 budget. Schroers: Your point is well taken Jan. but I think we do ourself an injustice by on something like that. I don't see this return for what we'll be getting for it. city of Victoria and the completion of a I appreciate what you're saying making a real hard line decision as a lot of money to expend in Future good relations with the major trail. It's well worth the ,.. Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 21 ..", expenditure as far as I'm concerned. If there isn't any more discussion or comments on this, I'd be looking for a motion. Erhart: I'd make a motion that we go along with the recommendation of staff of offering to pay for half the rock using our truck and our man power. Schroers: Okay and did you want to specify the amount? Erhart: Yeah. $1,000.00. What was it? Schroers: $1,075.00. Erhart: $1,075.00, yep. Thank you Larry. Andrews: I'll second it. Erhart moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to allocate $1,075'.00 for the purchase of one-half of the rock (205 tons) necessary to complete the 3,000 feet of trail adjacent to Chanhassen. It is further recommended that the City provide the truck and crew necessary to transport and apply this material and coordinate this work with Victoria city crews. All voted in favor except Jan Lash who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 5 to 1. REPORT: POTENTIAL USER FEE REVENUE. LAKE ANN PICNIC/RECREATION SHELTER. ...", Hoffman: Item 4 is an informational item requested by the Commission at the last meeting. Again as stated in the report, these are very ballpark figures but they are based on some factual data and in my opinion represent a potential scenario at this particular shelter as it's developed. To quickly run through it. The picnic shelter rental, the upper area is the avenue which would generate the most revenue. I took a look at the picnic season being May through September. 35 weekend days, 109 weekday days. Gave the calculations some givens as listed there and then took a look at estimated capacity rate. Obviously we're not going to book the facility to 100% capacity rate so I plugged in 75% and 50% just as a couple of estimates to give you an idea of revenue. Back to the reservation rates. Again, those would be reviewed extensively by the Commission prior to publicizing those types of rates. But the weekend rates of $35.00 for resident for a 5 hour block morning and then afternoon and non-resident, $75.00 plus the parking permit vehicle is somewhat similar to what other facilities charge and it's similar to what was approved earlier in the year for the other areas. So there's the estimate of either, approximately $7,500.00 or $5,500.00 generated in revenue. If you base it on 75% or 50% capacity. The concession area typically in a public park setting, concessions are offered as a public service. There is potential to generate revenue there depending on your volume. We'll take a look. Lake Ann Park beach is very popular. With the installation of more improvements on that site, be it the new swimming raft and this building and running water and electricity, more and more people are going to take advantage of that. So I think the concession stand can easily meet it's cost and then as the ..."", ,..... ,..... "... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 22 popular area of the site and as you make people more used to using that concession area. Right now they're very accustomed to packing their own type of lunch and that type of thing. But once they get used to using the service there, the revenue would increase. However, it is my opinion that the recreational equipment rental, when you take into consideration all th capital costs, the depreciation of equipment and then what you can in turn go back and charge somebody on an hourly rate for use of that equipment, would be best labeled as a non-revenue generating service which would be provided by the City. Don't get me wrong, I believe it's one of the main services which is desireable for this particular location because Lake Ann does lend itself to such non-motorized canoe, water bike, what have you type of recreational activities that I think it would be very well received. Let's not leave out Jim's sailboats. Very well received but probably not a money maker. Schroers: Okay. Thank you very much for that information Todd. That's something we will deal with in the future and does not require action at this time. LAKE SUSAN PARK BASEBALL FIELD. OPEN OR CLOSED GATE POLICY. Hoffman: Item number 5 comes about as we take a look at our first initial season of the use of the baseball field at Lake Susan Community Park. The association, the South Lake Baseball Association who will be reserving the majority of time there, just because of the sports which they coordinate and why this facility was built in town, will be the major user of the facility. As such, they tend to start taking some ownership even though they haven't even played on the field. One of their requests, I stopped into a meeting informally on an evening two weeks ago was how can we maintain this field in it's optimal condition? We feel that if adult softball teams think it sounds good to go ahead and schedule practice at the ballfield and it's open and they go ahead and have an adult softball practice on that field, that it could be detrimental to the grass infield and to the field in general. Their request would be to close it altogether. Communities do that. They have the access areas, you know there's very minimal accesses to the field theirself. They're just behinc the dugout is where it's a fenced area and some communities do go ahead aT fence that off. Paddlelock it and it's used for games only or games and practices by the local baseball teams. In light of how we develop our parks and where the funding comes from in the City of Chanhassen, I belie, we feel very strongly that the facility should be made available to all residents. I continue to feel that in this case. However, I agree to a certain extent with the baseball affiliation that the field was designed for baseball as it's specific use. There is no other field with that in mind in Chanhassen other than the Legion field which is now somewhat in poor condition and really in non-useable condition for inviting outside teams to host those.types of things. We'll run into problems just about ~ny.way we look at 1t but I think at this point, at least advertising tha It.1S baseball only and then posting that at the field itself and then gOlng ahead and not actively reserving conflicting uses at that site woul, be ~he best policy to begin with. We can have a wait and see type of attltude to see how it runs this first year and to take further action in future years. We can do so at that time. Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 23 ..."", Andrews: I had one comment and that is, I think a lot of people have a misconception of what the word, or phrase baseball even means. I think some people perceive that to mean any ball use at all of a field. Softball practice. Baseball games and softball games. We might need to b~ more specific as to trying to define what we'd prefer to have there and how much use we're trying to really eliminate through restrictive use of that field. Lash: I'm one of those people. When I read this I thought, well okay. So anybody who wants to playa ball game over there, yeah that sounds fine. What's the problem with having people play softball there? I don't know. Hoffman: It's developed as a, there's an elevated pitching mound so the spot where they're pitching off is not just a normal flat softball area. It's also 'a farther distance back than a pitching softball mound so either people are going to pitch off the mound and try to pitch that long distance softball or they're going to move up into the grass infield and that would start to wear in front of the pitching mound on the grass infield which is developed. There's longer bases so if people attempt to try and move the bases in, that type of thing. So those are some of the particular concerns. And as well, we have plenty of other fields available for that type of use. Andrews: I would think unless you put some pretty harsh signage up there that that's going to get used for softball practices by some team because the field pressures are just so intense. Lash: I can even see the local people over there, until their neighborhood parks are designed, I mean kids are going to go over there and play. They're go over there and fly kites. They're going to play catch and people who are picnicing there, if they want to have a quick game of softball or whatever you want to call it, they're going to do it. I guess I don't have a problem with it. .., Schroers: It's close enough to the industrial area down there that that may generate interest too and it wouldn't be inconceiveable that something would be organized at one of those companies for an evening softball game. Let's just go down to the field here and play and then run into a conflict with the league scheduling or whatever. I think there needs to be a sign with take Susan Park rules or more specifically ballfield rules if you wanted to get into that and just designate specifically what the rules are and how it's going to be used. I think that we will have to designate that organized league play or practice gets priority. That just a bunch of neighbors or industrial people can't go down there and just rough league play. Andrews: I have a problem with that. I guess my feeling is it should be open for use and if we can monitor the field and if it's just getting too beat up, then you go to the other extreme which is you close it up and you open it only for reserved purposes. La~h: Do we have restrictions on the fields at Lake Ann that people can't do certain things on those fields? ...." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ March 26, 1991 - Page 24 Hoffman: No. Admittedly this type of policy just stating baseball or baseball only or no softball practice doesn't have much teeth into it but I'm not at the point yet where we go and fence the thing off and put a paddlelock on it to reserve it for baseball only. As the commission gets a chance to go down to the site, the field is immaculate in it's baseball condition. It was designed for baseball. Specifically it has pitching mounds behind first and third base for the teams to go ahead and have practice pitching. Warm up pitching. That type of thing. The batting cage will be located in that area. There are electrical outlets to the backstop for the pitching machines for their practice. The mound was specifically brought in as a certain compaction clay material and hand packed into the baseball mound. It's a well done field and my belief is that the City of Chanhassen deserves to have a field of that caliber. There's no, baseball in this city when I first arrived here was non-existent. The basic cause of that was that there were no baseball facilities to be played on so I feel it's only going to do good for the community. For the baseball programs. For the Babe Ruth. The Legion. Eventually a town baseball team could be re-established such as they have in Victoria and some of the outer lying areas. So whatever we can do to protect the field would be to our best interest but how we do that, I'm still wrestling with. r- Andrews: I guess I feel the biggest threat is the destruction of the infield grass by people pitching, softball pitching from somewhere other than the mound and I guess if we're ever going to put signage up, I guess that would probably be the most important piece of information to pass along is, please pitch from the bare areas only or designated areas only. Lash: And designate it organized play has priority or something but I guess I have a problem. I'd be pretty bent out of shape if I was over there with some kids and they were just playing catch and somebody came in and said hey, you kids. Get off this field. You can't be playing here. This is only for baseball and it's a public park and I was a taxpayer. I think I'd be pretty upset about that. And if it requires maintenance, well it requires maintenance. That's the beast of it and it's something that we took on by putting in that kind of a field but I just don't think that we have the right to tell people that they can't, unless they're abusing it, I'm not comfortable telling people that they can't play on it. Andrews: I think signage should be more informational than restrictive. This is a designed baseball field and please try to preserve the grass infields, grass areas and let people use it. I guess I agree with Jan. I'd have a real difficulty as a taxpayer coming to a field with my softball and my glove and seeing a sign that says you can't use this field because it's a baseball field when I'm going to go out there and play catch. I mean I'd be real ticked. Hoffman: As well as mentioned, picnics which use the pavillion as well, one of their number one activities is going to be having organized ball games. Lash: If by putting up signage we can at least make suggestions as to how ~. to preserve it and not trash it right away, we can do that but I don't see Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 25 ...." any way of enforcing it and I wouldn't want it stated in such a way that a person would go there and say well I can't play catch here with my kid or my kid can't use the field to fly a kite or whatever he wants to do as long as the neighborhood parks aren't put in over there. This is going to be it for those people for a while. Koubsky: Todd, how big is the baseball association or how big is the league do we have here? Hoffman: Teams comprise of, you have a better estimate? Ruegemer: Yeah. Currently under the South Lakes Baseball Association, it's involved with all the CAA members. Or CAA Board members. south Tonka Little League. All the AAU programs. 13, 14, 15 and 16 year olds. Legion baseball program and all these associations get together and it's comprised of the South Lakes Baseball Association. As far as numbers, it's hard to estimate. I know numbers are up drastically from last year. Lash: Do you have any idea how many nights a week? Koubsky: How many games? Hoffman: They'll be playing there 5 nights a week and there's no lights on it so they'll be tying the field up from 5:30 until dark pretty much 5 nights a week as it's currently anticipated. We will not be in scheduling or do not anticipate scheduling until at least June to give the field some further growing time. So the weekend play is there as well. They'll be ...." playing. It's their home field. I mean they'll be scheduling games there and having games there on Saturday and eventually Sundays so it's going to be used extensively by the baseball teams. Lash: So if we post a sign saying organized team has priority or whatever, it would eliminate a lot of the nightly activity by anyone else. Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: That sort of polices itself. I mean when a whole team shows up in uniform with bats and marches out there, it's just kind of a statement. Hey we're taking over. But if you happen to have one of the companies nearby had organized a game and went down there and there wasn't any sign to that effect and they say hey, we were here first. Take your little baseball players somewhere else. There's a possibility for a confrontation like that. I don't think that it's out of line to try to have our facilities used what they were designed to be used for and to offer some general rules and guidelines. I agree with what Jim said about informational signs. I don't think we're going to go out there and arrest a 5 year old if he's using a softball instead of a baseball but you know, just some general guidelines and rules to let people know how we would like to have the facilities used and basically what they're for. Get that information across and then you know, unless somebody's doing some damage, we can't go and tell someone that they can't go and play softball there if nobody else is there. """'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~. March 26, 1991 - Page 26 Erhart: Well Larry I also think, just knowing the group at Emerson that does play ball, they would never go over there without calling the City to just see where they could practice. Now maybe some of the other companies would. I would just as soon most companies, especially when a lot of the people working there are not in this area. They don't live in this area, I think it would be just normal to call the city and see what the guidelines are and where you can practice and what is available. I can't see a whole company going over there. Schroers: I would think if they were organized to that point that they maybe would call and check but I can also see some of the guys out on the loading dock saying let's get a little game together and go over there and play ball. They may not check but it's probably a remote chance that there would be that type of a conflict but it just, I don't think that it hurts. We do that allover Hennepin Parks. At the beach there's a sign that's like a billboard that says Beach Rules. That's not necessarily an informational sign. That specifically states Rules and Regulations concerning the use of the beach and I don't think that's inappropriate at all. I think we should look at those facilities. We went to a lot of trouble to design a facility...everybody agreed was needed here and I think that we should promote that idea and at least not encourage other off the wall uses of the area. 1""". Lash: Yeah. Well if we try the signage and then maybe review this again next year at this time and you'll have the information as to how much abuse it took. Andrews: Do we need a motion here? Hoffman: Yes, please. Andrews: I move that we direct staff to provide informational signage and to monitor useage of the field and to make sure that the signage not only talks about preservation but also priority of useage so there's no misunderstanding with our citizens. Pemrick: I'll second that. Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded to direct staff to provide informational signage, versus a prohibitive context, stressing the proper manner in which the baseball field at Lake Susan Park should be used. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Hoffman: Thank you. You can as well probably all keep in the back of your mind that at some point they'll be looking for lights on that field. Andrews: We can get the lights when we mine that gold mine over at Pheasant Hills Park. Hoffman: There you. go. ,...... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 27 -' CANOE RACK RENTAL. LOTTERY SYSTEM. Ruegemer: What I just passed out is kind of a reVISIon of what the canoe rack application looks like here. Just to give you a little background information. Just in recent events here. A certain individual has contacted the City with thinking that he has a special consideration. Him and his wife possibly with health complications and they thought they might be under that special population and might have, you know be considered not favored but to get a canoe spot down at the Carver Beach area. And just I guess what I'm trying to develop here or formulate is kind of an even distribution to take in when applications are processed, to look at these special groups like the senior or the handicapped persons in the area or anybody with health complications to kind of grant them a canoe spot in their desired areas. I guess what I'm looking for on the commission level is to maybe give direction of how to formulate this type of lottery system or distribution system. To take into consideration any special needs of people in Chanhassen. Lash: We have these at Ann, Carver Beach and Lake Susan? Hoffman: Lake Susan will be installed this year. Lash: Which one in your opinion is the most easily accessible if a person was handicapped? Hoffman: We'll attempt to make them all fairly accessible and they all will be. The one at Lake Ann is just off of the access road. Carver Beach ~. is just off of the gravel road which abuts the lakefront there as well. And then the one at Lake Susan would be located very near to the parking, the handicapped stalls and the boat access. I believe what they're speaking of is being favored as an applicant to have that particular site where they can store their canoe because they're not able to easily transport back and forth their canoe like an able bodied person would be. Lash: Transport it back and forth? Hoffman: From their home to the lake. Schroers: Well what generated this was a request from an individual who did receive a permit last year correct? Hoffman: Yes. The permits came in so late last year, anybody who called when they were installed late in the season we just said go ahead and use one. Schroers: He did receive a permit last year and he likes to use the one and this one is at Carver Beach. He feels that if he is not granted the permit, that the condition of his health would make it difficult for him and his wife to use the canoe. They like to be able to just go down and get it off the rack, put it in the water and canoe. Okay. That's convenient but you know, who determines how healthy a person is? I mean are you healthy enough to go canoeing if you ,can't move your canoe around? There's different ways to look at this so you know, it would be ..."", '" Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 28 nice to be able to say that we can give one handicapped person or one senior citizen or you know, preference to a permit and then have the rest on a lottery system. How many total spaces are we talking about? You know it mentions percentage here Jerry. Have you looked at what the percentage would be? Ruegemer: I guess it would be based on the demand. How many actual applicants were to have like handicapped or health complications. Hoffman: Six canoes per rack. Schroers: Six canoes per rack and we're talking about a total of 3 racks? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: So we're talking about 18 canoes. Lash: How many applicants did we get? Ruegemer: Up to today we've had 6 applications which I know probably a couple of more coming in. But just to break down of the sites, Carver Beach has 4, Lake Ann has 1 and Lake Susan has one. So this isn't really a short term problem but possibly a long term. ~ Hoffman: It's a very new program. People aren't used to using it yet. Koubsky: So do you lock your canoe here where you keep it there permanently? Or for the season? Hoffman: Correct. Koubsky: Does that cost anything? Ruegemer: $20.00 per year. Schroers: How do you feel about designating one spot per rack as special request and in order to gain access to that special request rack, they have to give some valid, substantial reason as to why they should be considered. I mean obviously if they are physically handicapped or in a wheelchair or something like that or they're senior citizens and it's difficult. They're not as mobile or whatever but they should, it should be monitored I guess so just anbody can't call up and say hey, I need special consideration because I don't like to carry my canoe from the parking lot down to the lake. Lash: I need this cleared up...tonight. They prefer one location. Hoffman: Correct. Lash: It's more convenient for them to get to that specific location to get their canoe. ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 29 ....." Schroers: They're residents that live near the rack and they want to put their canoe on the rack and go down and throw it in the lake. Lash: That makes sense. Everybody would want to have their canoe at the canoe rack that's closest to their house. Whether you're handicapped or you have poor health or you're a senior citizen or whatever. That just makes sense. Now it just seems to me if you want a specific location and you aren't interested in the other ones, maybe what we need to do is separate the lottery system by locations and then they can apply for whatever one they're interested in. Then if they don't care, they can apply to all of them. Hoffman: That would be our intent to separate them. Lash: I mean unless they're, if they're all handicapped accessible, my thought was well maybe the only one that was handicapped accessible would be Lake Ann. Well if they're all handicapped accessible, then I don't see the problem. Just because it's more convenient to get there unless they can fallout their door and land by the canoe rack, they're going to have to get into their car or they're going to have to walk or they're going to have to bike or wherever they go, they're going to have to get there somehow. Now what difference does it make whether you're going to Carver Beach or you're going to Lake Ann except for the convenience factor? I don't really think that has anything to do with it here. If the canoe rack itself is accessible, then getting there is not our problem. Hoffman: What they're saying is if there's 10 applicants, I'm the only one ~ who has a special need and you give it to 6 other applicants, then I feel I'm unfairly treated. So is there an avenue to give me priority. Schroers: I think the other thing, the other deal about that is that people identify with their area and that's kind of why there are 4 racks for Carver Beach and only 1 for Lake Ann. Nobody lives there and they sort of, you know don't identify that as theirs but I get the feeling that these people want to canoe on their lake and that's why they're putting in their request for there. Lash: Yeah, I agree and I don't want to pass judgment but I don't know that it really has anything to do with their health. I think they just want to canoe at Carver Beach, which makes sense but are we going to give.. . Schroers: Well, this person was very intent. He contacted the City. He contacted me at home twice and you know, I'm not in a position to judge what his physical status is either but I think that it brought up a point and do we want to give special consideration to the elderly or the handicapped in regards to making something like this available to them or do we just want to say well it's straight lottery. You will apply and if you get chosen you've got a spot for the year. If you don't, you'll have to try again next year. I mean that's fair. That does not single out anyone. That does not give anyone preferential treatment of any kind. It's lottery. You put in your name. If you get chosen, you get a spot. ...." ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 30 Andrews: I'd like to make a comment. I like the simple solution you presented Larry which is like one slot per location as a special needs priority. I feel like that may not accommodate all the need that we have in a particular year but it does provide some access for people with special needs. I think to come to the, if you're asking us to define what percentage of handicapped, senior citizens or divide it further than that, I guess I feel we're trying to come up with too much formal definition rather than just relying on common sense and the ability of staff to make a determination as to is there significant need to give this person the reserved spot even though we've already given out the other 5 spots. Lash: Okay, is the specific hardship here that if he doesn't get a spot it's so difficult to go canoeing that they can't? Schroers: Yes. That's the way it was explained to me. Lash: But, and we get back to, does it have to be at a specific spot and he's saying that it has to be at a specific location. Hoffman: One at each rack. "..... Schroers: Yeah the thing is, there may be only one special request like that in the entire city for a year so it doesn't mean that we can't say we're going to designate one special use canoe rack per unit but that doesn't mean that if we don't get a request for a special use, that someone else just can't rent that normally if they want to. All we're doing is providing a vehicle here that we can accommodate someone that has a particular need if the need arises. And so far I know of one such situation in the city and it may never come up again but we can rent out the other 5 spaces first and then if no one else has requested for a special use up to that point and someone else wants to rent it, rent it out. Andrews: I'd like to add to my comments if I might. Schroers: Sure. Andrews: I guess I feel that we should reserve one spot per rack. That we should hold that spot until May 31st. If we have not had an application with a special need, that we release that spot to the next available person. Just use that as a way of administering a program. Koubsky: I guess if this policy gets out, what happens if you get 3 requests for the rack. Do you hold a pre-lottery and then roll the losers of that lottery into the general lottery? Hoffman: Correct. That would be right. Andrews: I guess the other comment I'd like to add is that I guess I feel reservation of slots should not be grandfathered from one to the next either. I'd like to add that comment. That each person should have equal ~ access on an annual basis. Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 31 ..."" Schroers: That is the way it's set up right? Hoffman: Right. Lash: And then maybe we should break it up by location. Maybe there are people who if they can't have it at Carver Beach don't want one at all. So they don't want to be drawn in the drawing for Lake Ann or whatever. Do they put that on the application? Hoffman: Yep. Order of preference. Schroers: It looks to me like the application is laid out really well. Ruegemer: Is it the Commission's opinion then to leave, would you like me to leave the little paragraph in there about the canoe rack location will be assigned on an individual...? Is that something that can stay on the applicant itself? Hoffman: Let's change that wording to reflect what they're recommending this evening. Ruegemer: Okay. Koubsky: Should we put on here Jerry an indication of how much, you know that it is a $20.00 fee so they know as they're applying that it will cost them? ..." Hoffman: Absolutely. Ruegemer: Good idea. Schroers: Alright would you like to formulate a motion to accept this? Lash: Can I just ask another question? I'm sorry I'm so dense tonight. So someone calls up with a special needs and they want to request one at Carver Beach and no one else with a special need wants to request one. Do they automatically get the one slot? Hoffman: Sure. Lash: Okay. Schroers: So we'd then be looking for a motion. Andrews: I move that we designate one slot per location to be held for special needs with a cut off date of May 31st. After that point the reserved slot would be given to the general lottery for the selection of the spot. Try to put that in words would you? Hoffman: We'll get it down. Schroers: Staff will refine that. Is there a second? -'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting .~ March 26, 1991 - Page 32 Erhart: Second. Lash: Put in there about if there's more than one applicant. Hoffman: Yes. Schroers: Okay, Jim moved and Dawne seconded. Andrews moved. Erhart seconded to reserve one canoe rack space per canoe rack for persons with special needs and to hold that space available until May 31st. All other spaces are to be designated using a lottery system. In the case of multiple special need applications. a pre-lottery is to be held prior to the general lottery assigning ,the one special needs space. The other applicants will then be considered in the general lottery. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Andrews: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask one more question about these rack rentals that don't pertain to this but, why is it that...floats can't be stored on these? Like I have a Sunfish off of a sailboard that's a general pain in the neck to lug in and out. Is there any reason why those couldn't be eligible for rack storage? ".... Schroers: I think you're just renting a spot there. What you put on it is your business as long as it doesn't damage the rack or prohibit other , people from using it in the manner in which it was designed. Hoffman: As long as it's a watercraft and that could be stated on here in some form. Lash: So do commissioners get preferential treatment? Koubsky: Just like the Health Department. ARBOR DAY CELEBRATION. SPRING CLEAN UP DAY AND SPRING FESTIVAL. Ruegemer: Just to give you a little update on what's going to be happening this coming spring. There's going to be the annual tree give away. The Arbor Day celebration. Tree give away at the Colonial Center coming up April 26th at the same time as last year, 11:30 to 6:00. I presume I will be present most of the day and the Cub Scouts will then take over after they get done with school. That is the same as last year. Emerson has graciously donated the trees again this year so those will be available that day. The annual spring clean up day will be based somewhat on the format as last year. Getting information out to local homeowners and city citizens and other concerned area businessmen and group leaders as far as cleaning up and being more aware of the environment and taking their pride in Chanhassen and cleaning up their area. And it will try to be, all these two events are going to try to be tied into the third, the spring festival. The spring festival idea or concept was developed by Chris Polster is developing a foundation, the tree foundation for the City of Chanhassen who's overall goal is to reforest the area of Chanhassen and to also ~ educate the youth of Chanhassen as far as giving the City of Chanhassen Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 33 ..., sense of history. What it was like 150 years ago because it was mainly forest from here up to northwest of here all the way up to Canada the way it sounds. So that would be the main idea as far as educating the kids. As far as another long term goal is to make enough or raise enough revenue to purchase land in the future to hold little field days for the kids to go out and learn more about the environment in the Chanhassen area. The overall, as far as the festival concept, it started out to be a month long celebration as far as getting local business people into the schools and other areas such as the media into schools and give class presentations to the kids in the school just to kind of educate them. How what they do as a business affects the environment as well as making it fun for the kids. Just basically get the community involved with the local businesses and try to get a general sense of community in Chanhassen. As far as some of the events that are going to be taking place, I was at a meeting yesterday and we're going to try to develop like a medallion hunt kind of based on the St. Paul Winter Carnival. That will be like a 10 day event. The clues will be advertised in the Villager. You know like the we~k before we'll have kind of a kick off on Thursday before and give the first clue that day. Then what we'd try to do is get the local businesses involved as far as getting an advertisement in the Villager and being more kind of, developing like a, I guess our goal is trying to get, generate business in the community of Chanhassen. It's kind of put together and work cooperatively with each other as far as putting kind of the power together and working for the people. What the goal is to get the local businesses involved with putting clues in. You know people can go into their store, whoever sponsors the event, can go into stores and get their clues daily and just to kind of, as far as this process, buttons will also be available ~" and if you have a button, if you do purchas a button then you're eligible for certain types of drawings. And if you find the magical medallion, then you'll be, if you have a button then you'll get the full, they were talking about a cash amount. A fixed dollar amount which hasn't been determined yet but if you do have a button, then you would get the full amount. If you didn't have a button then you'd get like half the amount. So it'd be based on the medallion hunt from the St. Paul Winter Carnival with the same types of rules and regulations. As far as hiding the medallion, it would be on all city owned property or public property so we don't get into the trespassing issues. Safety issues. We're going to try to make it as safe as possible. Just to kind of get another special event to get the community involved with this type of program. And just to get the kids involved as far as the overall goal of what they're trying to achieve with this foundation is to reforest the area of Chanhassen and to kind of have results of kids into the future. Saying that we were involved with that project and giving them a sense of future. Seeing their forest project grow into trees and that type of deal. So we're still in the formulating process with this special event which is scheduled to have an it over all the week of like the, wrap up like the 20th or 25th or whatever. That week of April and how this whole event would tie into the spring clean up and the planting of the Arbor Day trees with that so that's our main intent with this. We have local businesses are already stating that they would be willing to participate in this type of special event. As far as people involved. The bank is involved. Chris Polster's involved. City staff is involved. The Villager's involved with providing advertising at a reduced ...." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~. March 26, 1991 - Page 34 I cost. We're just kind of throwing our forces together here and trying to make this a special event. Schroers: success. Sounds like it's well thought out. Hopefully it's going to be a This is not an item that you're requesting any action? Ruegemer: No. Just an informational item. Schroers: Okay, good. It sounds like you put a lot into it. Koubsky: One comment Jerry. You might want to give either the U.S. Forest Service or the DNR a call. Most of those folks go out and give public presentations all the time and it might give a different outlook as to how they perceive the environment versus NSP because NSP is going to be basically we've left it cleaner than when we first started. And the same with the paper companies. They're just going to say how good they are for the environment and maybe a regulator approach might be good. Hoffman: NSP's a pretty good tree trimmer. Koubsky: But DNR, all those State agencies, they're pretty receptive to requests for that and there's people that enjoy doing that. ",.... Ruegemer: We talked about that also. What type of special events or speakers would be appropriate for this type of special event. Phyllis Brown who's working with us, she's from the school. Chanhassen Elementary and trying to screen the speakers so to speak. Just to kind of see if it would be beneficial to them. Koubsky: The Sierra club. There's other local organizations too. Ruegemer: Yeah. Just another local contact is Curb. Hoffman: Curbstake. Ruegemer: Curbstake from the Rotary. He's been involved with the environment for a number of years and he's been down to the Rain Forest and other parts of the world and he has really up to date knowledge on that subject matter. Koubsky: Isn't there a Freshwater Institute right near by us as well? Is that in Chaska? Lash: It's in Navarre. Schroers: Navarre. Lake Minnetonka. Hoffman: Good resource. Schroers: Okay, Jerry were you going to tell us about the spring clean up? Ruegemer: I touched on that briefly. It's going to be May 4th. We're ~ going to try to get the local businesses and neighborhood associations, Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 35 ...", local scouting groups, gardening and contact with some people in the area as far as cleaning up the parks and designated area. Schroers: Very good. Andrews: I have a comment here. Some of this information is being through the school system, is that correct? Ruegemer: Yeah. Andrews: Do you work with the Minnetonka School Districts as well as Chaska? Ruegemer: No, just mainly Chanhassen. Andrews: Okay. Because our kids go to Clear Springs and I noticed here also about the Easter Egg Hunt. You're missing a part of Chanhassen there .as far as the distribution of information. Ruegemer: All that information is distributed to Clear Springs. It's put in the rack as you walk in. Hoffman: It's always our intent to, we've very aware of the split of all the different school districts and zip codes, etc. and it's always our intent to notify. In fact we do more to try to notify the people that are outside the so called core area of Chanhassen. Clear Springs is somewhat, they're different than the other schools in that they will not distribute ....", directly to the classes. They won't even ma~e material available in that front rack. All the other schools will distribute in a Wednesday packet day directly to each student. Andrews: We'll work on that because I'm going to be in trouble on this Easte, Egg Hunt. Schroers: I have a question. I think we were pretty much done with item 7 then, is that co,rect Jer,y? Ruegemer: That's co,rect. Sch,oe,s: Okay, were you asking fo, volunteers f,om the Commission then 0, did I miss that 0, did we just kind of. Erha,t: He hasn't asked yet Lar,y. Lash: We',e already onto the Easter Egg Hunt. Schroers: I'm not saying that we have to have that. I mean we can, if you feel that you can get accomplished what you want to accomplish without having commissione,s, because they do volunteer a conside,able amount of time he,e already but I just didn't hear that and in the past it has been a part of the program. Some of us have had the opportunity to participate in that and I ce,tainly didn't want to deny anyone. ...", I"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 36 Lash: You already said, if you volunteer for the playground committee, you wouldn't have to do this. Schroers: Well it's not as though you have to. But you're right, I did give ~yself an out. Erhart: The only problem is by that time I might not be able to bend over very good you know. Schroers: Well you did it last year. Hoffman: We're down to three. (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) UPDATE. ANNUAL EASTER EGG HUNT. Ruegemer: ...It's hard to say what we're going to have. Last year we had around, I think it was around 400 parents and kids. So it's hard to look at this... We do have the National Honor Society again helping out from the Chaska High School. They were more than happy to volunteer again so we have rabbit suits for them so we set up little tables and they can help with the basket making and that type of information. Sending kids to the start line for the candy hunt and that. But we do need volunteers for the ~ coloring contest if you're interested. Lash: You mean judging? Ruegemer: Judging. Hoffman: It's always a real emotional job as well. Lash: That's why I signed up for picking up garbage. I'm afraid I'd be biased. Schroers: It seems that someone who was planning on attending that event anyway would be a good candidate. Andrews: I'm going to be out of town. Schroers: Jim's going to be out of town. Koubsky: It looks like rain. Lash: When is it now? This Saturday? What time would the person have to be there to do the Judging? Ruegemer: The kids are going to be turning in the coloring entries probably starting at like quarter to 12:00, 11:30. Somewhere in that area. As they come in to the event here, we'll probably wrap up probably at 1:00. Lash: I can do that~ .iI"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 37 ......" Schroers: 11:30 to 1:00. We've got a volunteer. Thank you Jan. Hoffman: Maybe we should have grabbed the Mayor while he was here. Lash: Yes. Schroers: Boy that's an opportunity to score points you know. Lash: But I can do this anonymously. Because a lot of these little kids coming in are going to know me. Hoffman: They'll see you posting them though and they'll know. Schroers: Okay, does that take care of item 8 then? Ruegemer: Yes. AGENDA. JOINT PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION/PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION MEETING. Hoffman: 9 is as straight forward as they get. There's a proposed agenda there for the joint Park and Recreation Commission/Public Safety Commission meeting. Unfortunately, as you can see, it's going to be a lengthy evening in total. Not only do we have that meeting but then we need to reconvene. Leave the Fire Station, reconvene here and discuss the all important Lake Ann Park community shelter as well. So another full agenda that evening. ...." Andrews: I'd like to add an item on there if I could? Hoffman: Sure. Andrews: Just a clarification of what the boat traffic regulations are, particularly on Lake Ann. I know there's a directional traffic, at least on weekends about which way you're supposed to go around the lake. Hoffman: On Lotus? Andrews: Yeah. And if there are any other similar type regulations. I'm not looking for what our State law is but if there are any particular City ordinances regarding boat traffic or boat useage on our lakes, I'd like to know those too. Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Are you talking about these vehicles in the park property or just within? Andrews: Enforcement issues. They had snowmobiles, jet skis, ATV's. I'd just like to add about boat traffic regulations so I'm aware of what they are. Lash: I didn't mean that to come out that way. I just meant, on the agenda does this mean within park property or just within the City? --' ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 38 Hoffman: In general, the park patrol would cover those types of activities within a park. However, snowmobile, jet skis, ATV's fall under recreational activities which then impact the Park and Recreation Commission. So those are in general throughout the city. Lash: But we'll be talking specifically about those right? Hoffman: Ordinances, etc.. Schroers: Are you going to be sending out a packet on that? Hoffman: No. Erhart: This is it? Hoffman: Yep. That would be it. Andrews: The other thing I'm sure we need to discuss by this one...own informational uses is what are our city ordinances regarding alcohol useage in park properties. Hoffman: City Ordinance No. 134. Andrews: Is that what it is? ~ Hoffman: Yep. I wasn't going to list, once you get into it but I could have explained that it was the alcohol related ordinance. I apologize for that. Schroers: I'm sorry. I don't know if I have this totally clear. We will be receiving nothing further in the mail in regards to the meeting of April 9th? Hoffman: The joint meeting, no. The meeting on Lake Ann Park community shelter, yes. You will receive an item. A packet on -that item. Schroers: Can you add a little reminder on there that we're meeting earlier at the Fire Station just to help remind everybody that evening. Lash: And include another copy of the agenda. Hoffman: Okay. It's not a formalized meeting. We won't be making motions, recommendations. It's just a general discussion type meeting so for staff to go ahead. and prepare a formal packet just is not felt to be necessary. Schroers: Okay, good. All I was asking for was a reminder because this could get lost between now and then. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Hoffman: Just for your own information. At last night's Council meeting, ,.... the $20,000.00 was allocated out of the Community Development Block Grant Park and Rec Commission Meeting March 26, 1991 - Page 39 --' money for the handicapped accessible play area to conclude that project on the north side of the school. There was $37,000.00 total available through that grant program. $20,000.00 went to this. Approximately $7,000.00 went to the South Shore Senior Center for their program. $3,200.00 to an adult day program in a church in northern Chanhassen which is operated by an independent firm and then the remainder of the money to make the Old City Hall handicapped accessible. We did operate a program there with a handicapped instructor and they could not access the building without a temporary ramp being constructed and any left over money being put into the transit system to assist in making their buses handicapped accessible. As well, the South Lotus Lake improvement project, plans and specifications were approved last night and they were approved and bidding will take place within the next week on that project. That's all I have Larry. Lash: Can I ask my question now? Schroers: Yes ma'am. Lash: On the memo concerning that playground at school and the committee. Now are they just taking care of this whole thing and we're never going to see anything about it again or are the plans going to come back to us first or who has the final say? Hoffman: No. However you would want to. Are you speaking of the letter to Kathleen or to the Advisory Committee? 'I Lash: The Advisory Committee. ...""" Hoffman: The Advisory committee will, once they make a final recommendation on a design or a vendor, we'll take that back to the APT and to the Park and Recreation Commission. Both for their final stamp of approval. This Board is very capable of making those types of decisions but we're spending the City's money and putting it into the school's location so both governing bodies of those two organizations certainly should have the chance to voice their opinion as well. Lash: Okay. Schroers: Anything else on the Administrative Packet? If not, a motion to adjourn is in order. Lash moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9=58 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim ..,.",