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PRC 1991 05 21 """""" CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 21, 1991 Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Dave Koubsky, Larry Schroers, Curt Robinson, Wendy Pemrick, Jim Andrews, and Dawne Erhart STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated April 23, 1991 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Lash: It just seemed like we missed. working or we just didn't get the tape were a couple of areas where Nann said was a break or something. I don't know if the equipment wasn't switched but there seemed like there either she couldn't hear or there Hoffman: Yeah. I can't recall if it was this one or one prior but we had some old tapes mixed in which did not record well. I think that may have been the last one. Lash: I think the majority that was missed was about the railroad right-of-way discussion where a lot of the public comments were not. ""', Hoffman: Larry, if I might have a moment. I think it's worthy of an announcement that the Lake Ann Park shelter building did pass City Council last evening on a unanimous vote. Andrews: When do we start? Hoffman: Probably late July, end of August. Lash: What kind of a completion do you look at then? Hoffman: The building itself will be fairly complete by the end of October and then they'll come back in in the spring and do finishing touches. Andrews: Will that be the Curt Robinson building? Lash: Memorial? Oh no. Hoffman: Discussion went well on it. They took a look at some cost savings by replacing a large laminated beam with a steel beam encased in a box to make it look like a fake beam instead. And they took out $2,500.00 in landscape lighting. Other than that, it passed through. Lash: Was there any discussion on the water, because when we were walking, went on that hike there was a little discussion of looking at putting in a well and septic instead of sewer and water. Was that discussed? Hoffman: Discussion on utilities was the majority of the discussion. It's ~ felt that installation of a well then leaves us potentially with having to Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 2 .....,,' check that water, the quality of it and the maintenance of another well within the city where if we hook up up front, then we have the capacity. We have the linei to run throughout the park and we have the safe water there which is already hooked up to the city system. Lash: Did they have a public hearing? Hoffman: Not an official public hearing. They wanted to hear comment, public comment and they felt the publicity received in the Villager, not one Councilmember received any calls so. PHEASANT HILL PARK. PRESENTATION OF NEIGHBORHOOD SURVEY RESULTS AND PARK -MASTER- PLAN ALTERNATIVES. Public Present: Name Address Jim & Doris Mielke Mary Cordell David Hughes 1645 Lake Lucy Road 1730 Lake Lucy Lane 1780 Lake Lucy Lane Hoffman: I'll quickly just run over the results, as you have in your packets of the neighborhood survey then allow Bruce to present the proposed park plan. Basically as you can see, the results were not surprising. They fell into what we know is a typical neighborhood park or what ~. facilities we typically find in neighborhood parks. Obviously the essentials of playground equipment and open playfield, totlot structure and basic other park amenities such as picnic tables and park benches and those types of things were all at the top. Grouped in the middle were more intense or indepth type of recreational activities taking larger dollar amounts and more time to construct those type of things. Basketball court, tennis court and down towards the bottom were more specialized or less common park facilities such as the drinking fountains, open picnic shelter and grills...typically as being found that grills within neighborhood parks are not necessary as people do their grilling in their own backyard. Parking down in the lower ranges as is separate skating or hockey rink essentially because there is a hockey rink located on one of the holding ponds...that is one of the outlots of the development itself. Robinson: Todd, what does that average mean? Hoffman: Average? Robinson: I expected to see the larger number at the top. What am I doing wrong? Lash: I was confused too. Hoffman: I received that comment from a number of people. As people ranked this, they ranked their top priority as number 1 or number 2 so average response is low which means it's ranked high. So an average ~ ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 3 '" ,.... response of 3.93 or essentially 4 means a lot of people ranked that 1, 2, 5, 6 or in the real low range which is one of their top 4 or 5 priorities. Pemrick: Todd, it says the total responses were 32. Is that the entire neighborhood? Do you know about how many responses that would be? Hoffman: That would be about a fourth of which were distributed. Approximately 120 surveys were distributed. Half a dozen or so straggled in after the date when this was published so it's probably up to close to 40 responses. Robinson: which isn't real good is it? Hoffman: .. .120 in that area. It still gives a good representation which is not unusual. Robinson: True but it also almost shows you a lack of interest, a whole lot of interest by 2/3 of the people. Hoffman: Or in excess of that. Bruce, would you like to go through and run down the proposed park plan. Bruce Chamberlain: We lost the easel. What I think I'll do, once I start describing the master plan I'll just hold it up like this. I just want to go over a few of the objectives of the park initially. As Todd was just speaking, there was a neighborhood survey done and we tried to include as many of the park amenities that were identified on that survey in the park as were possible. There were constraints in the park given the topography of the area and we tried to use that as much of a benefit as possible. So you'll see that as I describe the master plan. We also wanted to build safety into the park, as is the case with any neighborhood park or any public park. We also wanted to take advantage of the natural characteristics of the site. There's some really very unique characteristics of this site and this can be a really fantastic park and I think they got a great amenity there and something they can really be proud of sometime in the future. The unique opportunities in this neighborhood park are we have an opportunity to connect the north side of the neighborhood with the south side through this park. It's in kind of a central location so we have that kind of unique opportunity to use it as a coming together point. Kind of a destination point and also to make that connection from the north to the south. It serves a dual function because the natural characteristics of the park. It's 11.6 acres so we do have quite a bit of space to work with for a neighborhood park and there's room enough for plenty of active recreational facilities as well as more natural habitat areas and natural recreation, passive recreation areas. Why don't I go through the, I'll describe the park at this point. It's going to be hard to show everyone but I'll show it to the folks in the audience after we get done reviewing it. I'll talk about the recreational amenities first. We tried to congolmerate the recreational facilities on the north side of the park. There are several reasons for that. One is that the topography is most conducive to any recreational facilities in this area of the park. There's quite a large, fairly level play area in this area and Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 4 there's another kind of plateau in this region of the park right here and there is another plateau that's the highest plateau of the three in this region right here. It's kind of a little knoll. Just to orient yourself, wood Duck Lane is right up here on the top. Lake Lucy Lane is right here and Lake Lucy Road is right here and curves down to the south. Just to give you an orientation. As I talked about the connection between the south and the north, what we did is create a bituminous trail. A paved trail all the way from Lake Lucy Road or Lake Lucy Lane, winding through the park all the way up to Wood Duck Lane. I don't know if you know but there's a right-of-way, an easement between the two lots off of Wood Duck Lane that allow for a trail or actually is originally a road easement. There's plenty of space there to allow a trail access to Wood Duck Lane. Along that paved trail we tried to locate the facilities. So the trail was laid out in a way 'that would allow people to get to the facilities that are in the park. One is the open play field. Another is a tennis court area. Another is a tot lot or playground area. These things are all fairly malable. They can be adjusted. At this point there's one tennis court that's included in the park but we did some grading experiments and there's plenty of space for a second tennis court area. That's a wish to expand so there's a possibly of two tennis court areas. We've included two half court basketball courts on the tennis court so they'd be overlaying this tennis court right here. And if the second tennis court were added, the basketball courts would be rearranged to take more advantage so there could be someone playing tennis and basetball at the same time. In this configuration, either someone is playing basketball or tennis. It's impossible to play both at the same time. But I think that's probably the most efficient way to use the pavement surface that we've got. As far as the open play field, there's opportunity in the future and if the neighborhood desires, to include an aggregate infield and backstop. There's enough open space and we can level it out enough and do some grading to allow for a backstop in this area right here with the field pointing towards the southeast. The tot lot and play structure is in this area, the highest knoll of the site. And on the plan it is shown in a way that tries to take advantage of the natural topography. Kind of winds around that knoll a little bit and there would be a grade change through the center of the tot lot and playground area. So there'd be either a ramp or steps from the lower area to the upper. And the play structure would be connected between the two so there would be connection all the way along that area. There are two picnic areas included in the park master plan. One is in this area to take advantage of any activities that are happening on the totlot and playground area. Another picnic area is in this area to focus on the open playfield. The sand volleyball court is right here and these amenities,' the picnic area in this area, sand volleyball court and the open play area are all fairly conducive to one another. There are a few benches that are located along the paved trail. They can be really located anywhere but it was our feeling that they would be most appropriate if they could be overlooking a play area so one is near the open playfield. Another is in, actually it's up in the forested area. The parking we brought off of Lake Lucy Lane and in conversations with Todd and Charles, the City Engineer, we decided that the most appropriate way to bring parking into the park is from the south and we have a 250 foot setback from Lake Lucy Road for the park entry point which is at this point. At that point it curves in and goes up a slight incline and kind of rests on a ...", ...", ...",. lflii"""'-. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 5 ,.... little plateau area. So there'd be a bermed area that's higher than the parking lot in this area to screen the home in this area and it'd be higher than the wetland area so there's no chance of any flooding possibilities. So it's kind of mid-range as far as the low point of the park to the high point. At that point, anyone who is parking in the park can jump on the trail and head up to the more active areas. As far as the more natural amenities to the park, what we tried to do is use vegetation as a tool, both to kind of create enclosure within the active areas of the park and also use it to make the most out of any vistas that are existing in the park. So what I have done here is include a mowed grass trail that's winding through the natural areas of the park and crosses into the more active amenities right through here. And I've proposed that this is a real opportunity, if the city and if the residents so desire, to do some real fantastic habitat restoration. By that I mean prairie restoration, forest restoration and some savannah type of restoration. There are kind of three different habitat types and from the comments that we got from the neighborhood at the last meeting, it seemed that they're very interested in the wildlife in the area. One way to mitigate the loss of the quantity of habitat in Chanhassen is to improve the quality. So one way to do that is to create some habitat restoration areas like this. So that's a real opportunity in this park, if you so desire. So I wanted to put it out there and make sure you knew that the possibility is there. Even if the habitat is not restored, I would recommend that same vegetation types and cover and pattern be used because it does take advantage of the vistas that are happening up here to the lower areas. Plus it's a nice transition zone from the parking area as you walk through up into the more active areas of the park. I think that covers it. I'll take questions. Erhart: How about the Class B wetland? Was there any talk about changing it to a Class A like Eric brought up? Is that possible? Bruce Chamberlain: Well I called the DNR on that because I wanted to see what their position was. The position that they take is that if a Class B wetland, or any wetland has been altered in some way due to our work or road building or whatever, then they will condone it's restoration to what it was before. If the wetland is in it's natural state, then they do not condone any change. Erhart: So this is a natural state Class B? Bruce Chamberlain: Well yeah it is. Given the site constraints, it is. Schroers: I have two questions. The parking lot. At this point have you designated it for a particular number of vehicles? Bruce Chamberlain: Yes, 6. There's a 6 car parking lot in this area. Schroers: Okay. And do you anticipate that grading in the northern half will have any affect on the current natural amenities in the south? ,.... Bruce Chamberlain: No, I don't. What would happen is that a lot of the grading that would take place within the recreational areas on the north, the grading changes will happen within this green area. Within the Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 6 ..."", recreation areas. So a lot of the grading that will happen here will impinge on this area up here. A lot of the grading that will happen here will impinge on some of this area up here. So there's not a lot of the grading that will spillover into the more natural areas of the park. Robinson: Would the initial grading, would you propose that it accommodate a backstop and another tennis court, whether or not we decide to do that right now? Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah. away when you do the park it's a whole lot easier. at a later date. I would recommend that. That it be graded right because if you get the grading in place, then You don't have to disturb the vegetation sometime Andrews: From the backstop out to where the sandlot volleyball would be, would that present a distance problem as far as somebody being injured chasing after a fly ball? Bruce Chamberlain: No. It's 280 feet from the backstop area to the sand volleyball court. Andrews: Plenty of distance then. Another question would be, with the totlot. Is that so heavily wooded that we would want to have some sort of electrical service there for an arc light or something for evening lighti ng? -' Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah. If you think evening lighting or evening use is a priority, then I think that's. Andrews: Most of our totlots are very highly visible, open areas and this one is going to be one that's not so visible. We might want something with bett~r visibility. Bruce Chamberlain: I guess visibility from the homes, you're right. Isn't very, they're not visible from any homes. But I would guess that anyone who's using the park can have clear visibility if they're watching over their children. If they're in the park itself,. then they've got clear visibility from any of the active areas within the park. But yeah, I understand your point. That may be a concern. Lash: I guess I would like to see some of the benches in that area also. When people take their kids to play. Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, there are two benches proposed in the totlot area. There's 5 benches total. 3 are along the paths and 2 are in the totlot area. 5 picnic tables in the 2 separate picnic areas. Schroers: We can take comment from the residents or the public as soon as we're done here. Are there any more commissioner questions or comments? Robinson: It's heavily wooded in the northeast area. What about the rest in the northwest? Any trees in that area? ...", ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 7 Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah. You can see that the trees are included as a screening material in the northwest area to screen it from some of the residents areas in this area. Robinson: I mean currently are there? Bruce Chamberlain: Oh currently? Robinson: Yeah. Bruce Chamberlain: There is a slight, very little vegetation right here in the very northwest corner. There's some vegetation right down here but as far as this area, it's fairly open within the park. Although just beyond the park boundary it's fairly heavily wooded in this area. So at this point there is some vegetation outside the park boundary. Lash: So this is, you're not anticipating a lot of disruption in the current vegetation to do this? ,.... Bruce Chamberlain: No. Actually what it would do, I don't know if you've been out to see the park but there are quite a few dead trees in the area so it would mean revegetating some of the areas. Revegetating with over story in the forested areas. In other words, planting in more trees to make it look more dense and then as the overstory builds itself up, the understory will kind of take care of itself. With birds dropping seeds and what not. So that will kind of vegetate itself. So the forested areas would have a fairly dense understory. A wild, wooded area. The savannah area would have a prairie understory with a few trees scattered around as you can see in the plan. It would make management. It's not something, I guess the proposal for the natural areas isn't something that can be left. In order to maintain the appearance and the aesthetic it creates, it would take management. Not nearly as heavy a management as the recreation area but it would take some work. Schroers: Anything else? Is there any residents that have any questions or concerns regarding this plan? Jim Mielke: I've got one question. I'm Jim Mielke. Lucy Road on the south side. The 6 car parking area that as the only parking that the park users will be envision any along street parking on that north park ballfields and stuff? I live across Lake there, do you envision using? You don't there with the Bruce Chamberlain: Up here? Jim Mielke: Yeah. Bruce Chamberlain: Well at the last meeting there were several residents here who were fairly strongly opposed to any parking or any parking entry, a road entry into the park at this point so we tried to take their concerns into heart. We proposed, since this is a more heavily used and less ~ residential road, to bring the parking in from the south side. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 8 ....", Jim Mielke: sometimes is The reason I east of that I know what you proposed but not what you proposed. What ask that is there is part of park .' what people actually use people are going to be doing. the housing development to the Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, right down here. Jim Mielke: And the ballfields and picnic areas are going to be quite an attraction for those people to come up here and use the park. I can envision you know...ballgames or whatever. So I was just wondering, will the city permit parking along Lake Lucy Lane in case the parking lot is full ? .. Hoffman: That would be determined at some future date. Ideally, or typically the residents feel it's not ideal but in that area it would either need to be determined whether we would post no parking signs or not. It's done in many other areas adjacent to parks and would be an issue to wrestle with at a later time. Schroers: I think right now it is not posted for no parking. It is alright to park there currently and Lake Lucy Lane does not support nearly the traffic that Lake Lucy Road does. I guess that I really wouldn't see a problem with overflow parking along there. I wouldn't advocate advertising that but let people just determine that more or less on their own. Hoffman: It would typically be one of those wait and see type of ~ situations. No need to jump in there and mark the street no parking if the problem is not going to occur. Robinson: How far is that big development? How far away is that from the park? By Lake Lucy Road there. Lash: Because they have their own park. Hoffman: It's proposed for Curry Farms Park, right. They have a neighborhood park within that development. Schroers: Also with a very few exceptions, the neighborhood parks are nearly all pedestrian type traffic. We have a couple of exceptions. Help me with the name right down below Kerber here Todd. Hoffman: Meadow Green? Schroers: Meadow Green, right. But Meadow Green has two developmed ballfields that are used for practice and that sort of thing so there is more drive-in traffic there. But other neighborhood parks basically have more pedestrian. Doris Mielke: My comment probably has nothing to do with parks and recs but we live across the road on Lake Lucy Road and just around the curve. That is a terrible place for kids on the south side to cross over to get to the park and I've been working with Scott Harr and...put a stop sign on Lake Lucy Road where Lake Lucy Lane comes in or a speed bump or something -"" ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 9 because we've got cars just flying by. So I guess I'm real concerned about the safety of kids that cross Lake Lucy, and myself crossing Lake Lucy Road to get to that park. I guess... Hoffman: Public Safety Commission. Bruce Chamberlain: Just a comment on that. If there were eventually in the future a stop sign included on that road, that would be the typical or logical place to put a crosswalk that would connect with the trail in the park. Mary Cordell: My name is Mary Cordell and I live across from the park virtually. 1730 Lake Lucy Lane. We're up on a hill overlooking the parkland. It was my understanding from the last meeting that the parking situation, what I understood is that it was going to be primarily or just sort of informal parking along Lake Lucy Lane. How did it develop into a parking lot? ,.,.. Bruce Chamberlain: Todd and myself and Charles, the City Engineer, talked about this issue a lot. We decided that, well there's really a couple of reasons. I'll talk about the psychological reason first. One is that if we designated on street parking, a wide shoulder along Lake Lucy Lane, there might be a psychological connection for people to drive up to Wood Duck Lane and assume they can park along Wood Duck Lane also. And the residents in that area I think probably wouldn't like that very well. We can post it. Mary Cordell: I don't like it. Bruce Chamberlain: Yeah, yeah, I understand. But from a safety standpoint also, I think in an area where the homes are fairly spread out, we do have a neighborhood to the south and a neighborhood to the north and the lots are fairly large and the neighborhood is fairly spread out. There's also an obligation to provide some type of parking area that's kind of a safe haven so to speak for people'to drive into, unload their gear, their kids. Things like that and then move on. (A portion of the discussion was missed during this portion of the meeting due to the tape running out.) Lash moved, Andrews seconded to approve the Pheasant Hills Park plan as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ,...... Pa,k and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 10 ....... VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: LAUREN HUNTINGTON. MINNEWASHTA HEIGHTS PARK. Public Present: Name Address Lau,en Huntington Susan Hickey 6300 Dogwood Avenue 6301 Elm Tree Avenue Lau,en Huntington: Yes, good evening. Lau,en Huntington and I've lived in the Minnewashta Heights a,ea now fo, 2 years. I just wanted to b,ing to the attention the park that is in on the co,ne" the playg,ound equipment that's the,e is p,etty ,ough in shape. I guess it was put in befo,e safety standa,ds were really a main issue. The neighborhood has kind of made a big change around in the last couple years. There's a lot of little kids now in the neighborhood and there's no protec~ion under the playg,ound equipment. It's like 3 feet off the ground. The wood itself, a lot of splinte,s coming f,om it. The,e's no sand in the sandbox. It just needs some major updating. The skating ,ink is wonde,ful. It's used mo,e now than it has in the past because of the change a,ound in the neighbo,hood but the outdoo, equipment needs, I think it just needs new equipment put in fo, smalle, kids. Sch,oe,s: Can I ask. How many child,en typically are using that a,ea? ~ Now we've discussed that park in the past and to be pe,fectly honest, one of the things that we had a problem, we didn't know about, was how much use there is in the a,ea. Lauren Huntington: I think it's been used a lot. I don't take my daughter the,e ,ight now because it's just too dange,ous to take he,. She's 2 and she can't even go down the slide unless I'm standing the,e catching he, at the bottom. If she falls off, she's not going to hit any g,ass. The skating ,ink is getting used more because there's mo,e kids. Sch,oe,s: It was ou, imp,ession, maybe mistakably but that the Minnewashta Heights a,ea is an area that had been the,e for some time and we thought that the age g,oup of the child,en in the a,ea was p,obably exceeding the totlot stage. Lau,en Huntington: I think if you've looked, within the last few yea,s, I mean the houses have been going up fo, sale and changing hands very, ve,y rapidly. The,e a,e, I would guess, on our block alone. Susan Hickey: I'm a mothe" I have two p,eschoole,s. On our block alone, I live on the block next door to Lauren. I'm right behind he,. The,e are othe, families on that block who's children are unde, the age of 5. The,e's a house that just sold ac,oss the st,eet from us that the people who bought it have a 4 yea, old daughte,. Lauren Huntington: It's changed. When we moved in 3 years ago, it was conside,ed an olde, neighbo,hood. ~ ,...... Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 11 Schroers: I think that was our general impression. Lauren Huntington: It was. And when we moved in I saw nobody at the park. I mean Ellie and I were always there by ourselves. Now there's, I think there'd be a lot more people if the playground was updated. It's a pretty little park... It's a nice sized park I think to... I guess I'd like to see new equipment and maybe an undersurface put in. Schroers: I think we definitely need to address any immediate safety concerns. We can direct staff to have the park maintenance people look into what immediate safety concerns there are and then I think that we probably have to look at our proposed budget and see what we can do in regards to replacing the equipment. Lauren Huntington: Yeah, I thought maybe we could get an undersurface put in, maybe large enough to... That's my main concern that the bottom of the slide right now...life threatening but the bottom of the slide can be pretty far. Schroers: Okay. Well thank you very much for making us aware of that. ,..... Hoffman: During our park inventory visits this spring, it was consensus of staff that that equipment is not the type of equipment that you'd look to an addition to or expansion of. It's past that useable life portion. It's a piece of equipment that we need to limp along with and try to make it through until it's deemed necessary to go ahead and replace it. Now the installation of resillient surfacing and the borderwood is something which should realistically be squeezed into the 1991 budget. Take some dollars from somewhere. Reallocate them to install that surface. We're being aware of it at this point, we're not addressing it if we don't go ahead and do that. Andrews: Todd, I noticed on the agenda there's some reduction of the development of South Lotus Lake Park. Does that free up monies that could be reallocated specifically from? Hoffman: No. That change strictly deals with the master plan, not budgeted items in 1991. Schroers: Is this something Todd that we can just direct toward maintenance as a project that needs to be done without taking a formal action as far as just applying the needed amount of surfacing under the slide and addressing other safety actions or safety situations just as more of a normal means of the maintenance operation? Hoffman: I would still need some action from the commission to go ahead and coordinate that with them. It's going to take $1,500.00-$2,000.00 to go ahead and purchase and install a large enough blur area which will then suffice in future years when new equipment or expanded equipment would be installed. The issues about taking out the splinters or attempting to do some sanding, that's just routine maintenance which can be completed. ~ Other than that, currently the slide exits right out onto the dirt surface and the remainder of the play equipment sits on a dirt surface. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 12 ...."" Schroers: Can we ask then that staff come back at the next meeting with a proposal of cost and the other amenities or changes that we would like to make currently and also where we might be able to appropTiate the funds from? Hoffman: We certainly could do that. Otherwise we could just take a few short minutes tonight and just page through the 1991 budget and probably come up with that. I would think it's going to be approximately $1,500.00 for that. Schroers: Do you have that information with you? Hoffman: Sure do. In every budget year, last year $175,000.00 was budgeted. Just over $50,000.00 was expended so this year we're going to be much tighter than that. We're going to be much closer to our budgeted amount but there are some leeway. Things don't get done at one park for a variety of reasons and to find $1,500.00 within this would be fairly easy, if you want me to bring back specifics. Schroers: Tonight's agenda is really probably rather short. I think that we're going to get through it pretty good. I hate to put things off when we can get something accomplished right now. If that's okay with the rest of the people, that's have at it. Andrews: I think we definitely have to prioritize safety above new development. If we want to make a motion right now to allocate $1,500.00 ~ to provide necessary safety construction at that site, I think that would be a good thing to do. Schroers: Can we leave it up to staff to determine the best location to acquire the funds? Hoffman: You sure can. It will essentially fallout in the end of the year budget. We can go in and attack something right now for $1,500.00 and it may be switched at some other time. Schroers: Do you feel that the $1,500.00 figure will address the current needs? Hoffman: Yes. To purchase border wood and pea gravel, that will take care of it. Lash: Do you have a project in mind? A budget area there that's coming to your mind right away of where the money could come from? Hoffman: One that comes to mind on the first page at Lake Ann is the nature trail. We had $4,000.00 budgeted. The trail was cleared at virtually no cost. We had minor rental of equipment. We're taking a look at aggregate but $4,000.00 will not allow for paving of that trail. And if we install aggregate at this time, upgrade the surface at a minimal level but at some year down the future we can go ahead and put that aggregate with bituminous surfacing in all at one time. Right now what we're doing is seeing how the trail works with the natural waterways that are in there ...." ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 13 and those type of things and kind of letting it be used and discovered over a year. The trail is cleared, by the way if you're in there and can take a walk around that area. It will be mowed down to restrict growth but that $4,000.00, if it is still the desire, we can certainly go ahead. That will purchase, it may not potentially even purchase all of the aggregate so we may find 75% of it and run out of money. That's one that comes right to the top of my mind that may not be expended by the end of the year. Schroers: Wouldn't it seem more practical to maintain that as a mowed surface and look at the amount of use and so on that it is getting before we spend that kind of money to either use aggregate or pavement on that trail? Hoffman: Correct. Schroers: I don't have a problem with that. With that, is anyone interested in making a motion to reallocate $1,500.00 from the Lake Ann nature trail to the Minnewashta Heights Park? Robinson: For the purpose of pea rock or whatever and border wood. Hoffman: Correct. And I'll go ahead and work with some dimensions as far as what we feel a future play structure will need in that area and then we'll go ahead and install an area large enough to accommodate that future development. ~ Lash: Do we have anything in the future? We've got that 5 year budget. Has there been anything in there in the future? Hoffman: At Minnewashta? Lash: Yes. Because I know that's one we've just kind of left alone. Hoffman: Totlot updating $5,000.00 and there was $10,000.00 potentially put in there for a shelter. Warming house type of shelter. Lash: Within how many years? Hoffman: 1992+. Schroers: Okay. So we could look at improvements from that? Hoffman: Correct. It would become part of the 1992 budget process which will initially start next month to start shagging out where the dollars for playground are going to go in 1992. Obviously this will be one of them. Schroers: Great. Well is anyone interested in making a motion? Andrews: I move that we reallocate $1,500.00 from the Lake Ann nature trail to safety improvements at Minnewashta Heights Park. ~ Pemrick: I'll second. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 14 ..."", Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded to reallocate $1,500.00 from the Lake Ann nature trail to safety improvements, [installation of resilent surfacing (pea gravel) and border wood] at Minnewashta Heights Park. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously_ Andrews: I'd like to make one more request of Todd. If there's any other emergency type safety concerns at that park such as the slide, if that's just something that's too dangerous tp be left, I'd like to hear about it right away so we can take action immediately. Schroers: Thank you very much for coming in. Hoffman: One more clarification. If we go ahead and expand the totlot area, it jeopardises the second of the two sandboxes which we have within city parks. I'm just wondering if we eliminate that, if that's going to cause severe grief. Lauren Huntington: I personally, there's a beach down the block and there's a lot of cats. Schroers: One sandbox is adequate? Lauren Huntington: I'd rather see... JUDD FUHRMAN. EAGLE SCOUT PROJECT. ..", Hoffman: I'd like to introduce Judd Fuhrman. Judd has been into the office working with myself on and off for about the past 2 1/2 months to develop an Eagle Scout project as one of the requirements for his pursuit of the Eagle Scout rank. Initially we had taken a look at the construction of a bridge, of a third Boy Scout bridge at the Lake Susan site to cross the creek as part of the trailway connection. That did not come about. However as the bridge that needs to be constructed in that area, it needs to handle vehicles and the distance and the load and that type of thing would not accommodate that. So we put Judd off for a few more weeks. I informed him that during our park visit this summer we would go ahead and take a look at some appropriate parks and spots for projects. What I came up with was working with the revitalization of City Center Park with the play areas and that type of work which is going to be going on there this summer. Specifically the removal of the existing border timbers, ties, that type of thing. The few that are there on the north playground and then do the site work, the digging out of the trenching for the area for the new border and then the installation of new border wood in that area and the installation of the pea gravel. Judd has discussed this with his troop leader and his advisor. It works with their requirements for the Eagle Scout project. Judd will be the coordinator of the project. Getting together the other Scouts and coordinating the entire project. Doing the site surveying and that type of thing so I've invited Judd in tonight to explain his pursuit of his Eagle Scout. How long he's been a Scout. That type of thing and then to look for your approval for this Eagle Scout project within the Park and Recreation Department. ...",., ,...., Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 15 Judd Fuhrman: My name is Judd Fuhrman and I live here in Chanhassen. I've lived here since I was about 4 years old. I am now 17. I've been a Scout since I was 7 years old. I started in Cub Scouts with Troop 330 in Chanhassen. I went through Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, which I am right now. I am currently of rank.~.which is second highest. It's right below Eagle Scout. I am working on my Eagle Scout. There are several requirements of the Eagle Scout, one of which is the project that was just described and...Mr. Schmidt who is my Scout Master and was my Cub Scout master. I work with him very well. He will be my advisor throughout the project and will be helping me make some .decisions about what to do throughout the project. Kind of instructing me on how to go about things. Basically my job with the project will be not only to follow through with doing the planning and the actual work but to gather Scouts or other civilian people to come in and assisting in the construction of the border wood and pea gravel. More or less my job is, my goal to become an Eagle Scout is objective of an Eagle Scout is to not just accomplish the project but to go about it in a way that I will be coordinating it. Not just doing the project. I have to get people together to work on the project. Kind of like a manager and won't actually be doing as much as work as the rest of the Scouts or as the rest of the people that will be on the job with me. I'll just be like a supervisor or someone who gets everything together and I will be actually doing work with them. It's an honor to be working with the City and getting a project through the City and helping out the City and the community in making revisions out at the park and updating it and improving the... Basically I'm eager to get started on my project. 11""" Schroers: Okay, thank you Judd. Does anyone have any questions or comments for Judd? Andrews: I'd like to thank him for doing this work on behalf of the City. I think it's really appreciated. Erhart: We're also honored to have you, so vice versa. Schroers: I admire your ambition Judd. This is quite a sizeable undertaking and I guess if you feel that this is something you're confident you can accomplish, you certainly have my blessing. It's a big help to us. Koubsky: I'd like to thank you for coming in Judd. This is really great. I admire your dedication to the Scouts and to seeking your Eagle Scout. I think all along you will be very grateful that you did do that and are achieving the goal and the rank of an Eagle Scout. I know in my endeavors and even employment opportunities, resumes that indicate the achieved an Eagle Scout are looked at very closely. It's an accomplishment and I commend you for sticking through it and really happy to be able to work with you on this. Judd Fuhrman: Thank you for your time. Schroers: Is there some action requi..ed on this Todd? Hoffman: The only potential action is, as you know, $3,000.00 is budgeted ~ under Eagle Scout projects. If we had a project which was alone by itself Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 16 ....." and needed funding, we would have come before you tonight with a funding proposal. However as you also realize, the projects, these particular projects are very tight in their budgets. We're working with grant money. Budgeted dollars. Those types of things and that $3,000.00 can rollover into next year. It can be banked in case we do have another applicant for that type of money or a portion of it could be incorporated into this project. So you have your bunch of options which you may choose to act on or you can just approve the project as is. As far as the financing, we can say $1,000.00 of the $3,000.00 should go towards this project to be dedicated to this project for both miscellaneous and direct expenses as part of the project. Or $2,000.00 or $3,000.00 or none of it. Lash: How many Eagle projects do we typically get? Hoffman: Typically 1 every year. Every other year. Andrews: I think since such a large 'number of people in the community are likely to be involved in this project, I think we ought to allocate some money for nothing else than to provide refreshments and some assistance to the project itself. Lash: And this is a big project with a tight budget and I think I recall in our last packet some communication from you trying to get additional funding so obviously we're running a little short and we're going to be cutting corners and I would rather allocate some money towards the project too to help with that crunch so we don't have to skimp too much. ....." Schroers: And I would like to see any excess money be allocated to the purchase of the equipment that we are looking at for the area. Hoffman: Correct. That's where the actual cuts are going to be made because you need to go ahead and complete all the site amenities, border wood, installation, grading, those types of things. The cuts are going to be made in the play equipment so any additional funding then would supplement those dollars. Andrews: I would like to see us allocate some money for this project. If nothing else, with Judd's experience as a general contractor handling some budgeting of money or being involved with how that money might be used would be also valuable experience and it provides a lot of good for the City. So I guess for me personally I feel that we could safely allocate at least $1,000.00 and then take another look at this later on in the project. If more money is needed, we could allocate an additional amount because I think $1,000.00 is a conservative amount of money to put towards this project. Lash: At what point are we going to be ordering the equipment? Hoffman: For that site I would, late June. Lash: Maybe we could address it at that time. I mean allocate some now and then in June review it and see if we want to allocate some more to get the most we can. --' Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 17 Hoffman: Sure. I can bring that back to the Commission. Andrews: I'd like to make a motion right now that we allocate $1,000.00 at this time and that at our June meeting we re-evaluate this project to see if additional funding might be necessary. Schroers: Okay, I will second it. . Andrews moved, Schroers seconded to approve the installation of playground border at the north elementary school site as an Eagle Scout Project for Judd Fuhrman, Troop 330 and to allocate $1,000.00 of the $3,000.00 budgeted for Eagle Scout projects to assist in the funding of the overall project. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ORDINANCE AMENDMENT. GLASS RECEPTACLES WITHIN CITY PARKS. Hoffman: Thank you Chairman Schroers. Item 4 is very straight forward. Robinson: That's short and to the point. Hoffman: Straight to the point. No confusion whatsoever and if it is the wish of the commission to approve this, I will take it to the City Council for their approval. "..... Schroers: Okay. Are there any commissioner concerns, questions? Erhart: How are we going to educate the people on this? I was just out there yesterday and saw a few glass containers. How are we going to let the people know? Hoffman: Currently I'm working on a coordination of signage within our parks. Doing a cataloging of the signs. Park rules signs, park regulation signs which we currently have within the parks. I'm going to be bringing that to the Commission throughout the summer. Refining an overall park sign which is basic. Short. Simple. To the point but covers the most important and essential park rules which we deal with. We'll run that through the City Council and make sure we're addressing all park rules and regulations which need to be addressed and then look to ordering those for the spring of 1992. Erhart: Okay, so signage you're saying? Hoffman: Yep, signage. Lash: How about in those mailings? The booklets that you send out? Erhart: That's what I was wondering. Hoffman: Correct, newsletter. Schroers: And also in the newspaper. The Villager. ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 18 ....,; Hoffman: Once it passes, we can get some coverage in a variety of ways. Basically I think people should, or at least some people should oblige. Erhart: oh I think they will as long as they know, I would like to think that anyways. Schroers: I think it's kind of a trendy program these days anyway. Most people that are concerned with the environment will pick up on it. Well good. We're looking for a motion then to approve the ordinance amendment as proposed. Lash: So moved. Robinson: Second. Lash moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the ordinance amendment prohibiting glass receptacles within city parks. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. SOUTH LOTUS LAKE PARK. MASTER PARK PLAN CHANGES. Hoffman: Item number 5 deals with the South Lotus Lake Park, master plan changes. This came to light again in the park tours and then looking at the purchase of play equipment for South Lotus Lake Park. The ballfield which is shown there, it's one of those deals where diagrams on maps can play tricks with you. It looks good. However, the distances which we have ~ available, orientation of this basically here with the boat access parking area, the two islands and the turn around, proposed play area location and then the ballfield. Again, the distance on this foul line was substantially short of what it should be. 120 feet long and then again the distance from home plate to TH 101 is just 200 feet so designation of that as a ballfield would be inappropriate. It would be much more appropriate to just designate the area, which would accommodate a long soccer field, open play area in this orientation just as a play area itself. Open field and not a softball field. Andrews: To reinforce that, there's never any parking available there when the fishing season's open. It's just impossible so we really don't want to attract softball to that area anyway. We don't have the parking to accommodate it. Robinson: Has that been seeded? Was it seeded last year? Hoffman: It was seeded late last summer, correct. So the seed is coming up and then once we have the plan change and then go ahead and have time later on in July, we can order up the equipment which was approved and install it. Schroers: Okay. Well that seems like a pretty clear cut issue here. Do we have anyone interested in making the recommendation to amend South Lotus Lake Park plan and to eliminate the construction of the ballfield and designate it simply as an open play area? --' Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 19 "... ,.... Robinson: So moved. Erhart: Second. Robinson moved, Erhart seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to amend the South Lotus Lake Park plan to eliminate the construction of the ballfield and designate it simply as an open play area. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. POWER HILL PARK TRAILS. Hoffman: Item 6, as it deals with the trails. We also, it would behoove us to speak of the parking area which is proposed in that area as well. In recent discussions with the developers and Dave Hempel and other engineering staff, as they're bringing in the approval of the 7th Addition, we're taking a look at the construction of Flamingo Road. When is the appropriate time to bring in the park entrance road? Is it appropriate to install the trailway at this time or at least the trailway stubs from the curb side through the lots to the back of the lot line? As we're well aware, that becomes a difficult situation on down the line. So I want to bring it to the attention of the Commission at this time since the construction will begin within a few short weeks. So we can begin to address those issues. They may not be able to be resolved this evening. It could be resolved in a subsequent meeting on this particular issue. To explain the different items that we're looking at, park orientation is currently in this fashion: Powers Blvd. to the east in this location. Lyman Blvd. to the south coming across in this location. Mallard Court is currently the extent of the development. This cul-de-sac is developed and houses are going in this area so we are working with the developer to have this trailway installed. A bituminous surface off of the back of the lot line to alleviate any future problems. Continuing the trail then is currently labeled turf trail in this alignment up to the parking lot where then at the time of master plan discussion it was labeled bituminous from that point down past the play area and then to the tennis court in this location. The other stuff coming in along side the road would be bituminous and then coming in off of future additions to the subdivision, crossing the dyke or the berm inbetween the two ponds, was labeled turf at that time as well. Current issues are, if it's the desire of the commission to ever see that trail a hard surface so baby carriages, bikes, those types of things can be used in that location, now is the time to begin addressing it. Obviously as you see it there, it does come into the back side of just essentially all those lots along Flamingo Drive in the area of the trail. If it was installed as a mowed trail and then at some point in the future we attempted to install it as a bituminous, it would just not be possible. For that very reason it may not be desireable at this time to even consider bituminous surfacing. However, this park is somewhat limited in it's active uses. It serves a large variety of residents and we need to go ahead and address all recreational activities. Walking, biking, skateboarding, rollerblading among them. The other issue concerning the parking area. As we know, this will eventually develop as being at least a neighborhood sliding hill and potentially somewhat of as so called community sliding hill if people find it desireable to go there and slide. That is the reason for bringing in, one of the reasons for Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 20 ...." bringing in the parking in this location. And again, bringing in the parking lot is most easily accomplished when the street contractors are there doing the street work. We would need to enter into a contract with them to complete that work. As you recall, during budget discussions it was discussed. what about trail improvements? How do we budget for those and as noted in my item, it was very difficult to forecast what type of things are going to be coming in. We labeled them in our 1991 budget as fund reserve and we talked about a wishy washy figure of $40,000.00. $40,000.00 we would think that would be a reasonable amount to expend in 1991 if the opportunity arose. To go ahead and construct these then, that would be possible. It would require a year e~d budget amendment to bring those dollars in to clarify then the year end expenditures versus the budgeted amount. At this time I'll open it up for commissioner discussion. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it as well. One other side note is that we've asked them to stub in a water connection in this area so then at some point in the future we can bring in a copper line and put a drinking fountain into the park area adjacent to the play area or the parking lot. Schroers: I'm a little bit unsure of my orientation on this. Is this the trail section that I looked at where there was a question of the easement that two gentlemen were concerned that called me out to their house where it goes between their house and down the steep hill? Lash: No. Hoffman: No. That's in Chanhassen Hills. There's anotheT one up there. ...""" Lash: Oh! Herman Field. That's the one I was thinking about. Hoffman: The one Larry looked at was in Chanhassen Hills. Barbara Court. That one is resolved and has been installed so you can go ahead and go take a look at that connection route. The one Larry's speaking of is the connection from Chanhassen Hills which is isolated currently by TH 101 and then will be isolated by TH 212 as well so we need to leave them that outlet to get out into the open area. The large expanse there which is in between Chanhassen Hills, Lake Susan Hills West. Up the west side of Lake Susan and then into the community park. This one is on the other side to the west across Powers Blvd. and currently it's hard to visualize. Schroers: Laid out it's almost, I envisioned it being. Hoffman: It lays out essentially the same. If you want to go ahead and take a look at the area there. Lash: I have just a couple questions just to clear this up. So what you have planned now is the 3 different accesses from the nei9hborhood into the park as being bituminous? Are all three supposed to be paved? Hoffman: At least the ones coming between the houses to designate them as a trailway. The other one coming in from alongside the roadway would be bituminous just to make it a continuous bituminous loop from off street into the play area into the tennis court. The other one which is somewhat ...", Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 21 wider, if it was elected not to go with an asphalt surface all the way down could be left turf. Lash: And there are no homes there now? These are just lots? Hoffman: There are homes in this cul-de-sac area and abutting Flamingo just in this area here. So this is the extent of the development right now. That ends here and it will continue up Flamingo Drive and around in a couple of weeks. Lash: Okay, and those people up there know about this? The people up on the cul-de-sac? Hoffman: Correct? Lash: Okay. Andrews: How much distance from that north cul-de-sac down to the sliding hill area are we looking at? Hoffman: We taped it off the other day. We had 300. I think I was taking a look at about 1,500 feet in this area so considerably under a mile. """ 5chroers: As development occurs, is there going to be more paving done in the area and would, is the potential there to work a deal with the contractor at the time that will possibly save us some money down the road as far as paving it at a later date? Hoffman: Yeah, I can't address the saving money'. It would certainly be advantageous for them to go ahead and partake in that work at the time which they're constructing their roads. Laying sub-base of the road and asphalt so it's a good opportunity for both sides. Koubsky: As I think right now, Flamingo isn't paved. Hoffman: No. Koubsky: It's just some rough site grading out there. Hoffman: Yep. Andrews: I wanted to ask this question. I think you've already answered it but just to be sure. The three paved stubs are a done deal. Is that correct? That they are going to happen regardless of what we decide to do tonight or not? Hoffman: These two will. This one is up to your discretion. It's considerably wider than the other ones. If we want to asphalt that in, we. Andrews: I guess I feel it is important to put pavement in between residential lots so we don't get into these problems of this never has been a trail and I don't want a trail going through my yard when it isn't their ~ yard to start with. Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 22 ...""" Schroers: And since there are two paved stubs going in and the development is yet to occur, I think we've even kind of adopted as policy to try to get that type of trailwork done along with construction and development in the area. I would definitely think that would be the avenue to pursue here. Hoffman: It would be my intent in future review of subdivisions such as this to go ahead and incorporate these things that continually come back to the Commission and cause you headaches and pain, namely trail connections and parking lots. Those are included in the master plan and deemed necessary, the best time to go ahead and install them is to develop them right into the development contract and make them a requirement of the developer. They'll want some reimbursement for that. That can appropriately be done through the reduction of park fees. That type of thing but then it's a done deal. The grading, the asphalt work and the inter park trailwork is done up front. Schroers: And we know that the entire area there is scheduled for rather intense development. We have you know every indication to assume that that's something that will be used a lot and could justify having a paved surface. Lash: That little road thing that goes into the parking lot? Would it be safe to assume that the City plows in the winter then will go in there and plow that out in the parking lot so people wanting to use the sliding hill can? Hoffman: Correct. The street would become property of the City and they ~ would plow Flamingo Drive, they'd just swing in there and plow that out. Schroers: Okay, would you then be looking for a recommendation from us to go ahead with the paving of this trail in conjunction with the development of the project? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: I just want to be clear. Are we talking about paving all the darkened trail sections up there including the stubs and all the connectors or are we talking just about the stubs at this point? Schroers: No, we're talking about the trail. Andrews: The whole thing? Schroers:. The whole thing. Lash: Because I'm not in favor of doing that. I think we're blowing a whole chunk of money there on a little neighborhood trail that, I think we've got some bigger fish to fry than this one. I definitely see the advantage of paving the stubs in because then future people coming in know that this is there and they can't come back with a problem and I think the original plan with the bituminous connecting the parking to the tennis makes sense but I don't know about going all through the whole thing with bituminous. I think the turf trail would be, personally I think that's ....." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 23 adequate for what people, it would be a way of connecting. Actually it would just be kind of a hiking trail in my OPlnlon. I don't know how many people would be walking...and if people want to take their strollers or ride their bikes...problem taking Flamingo. It wouldn't be that much farther. To spend $17,000.00 or $25,000.00 out of our $40,000.00 budget, that's a big share of our budget for trails. Wendy Pemrick asked a question that wasn't picked up on the tape. The recording was bad at this point. Lash: We'd never be able to do it. Hoffman: Yeah, it's my opinion that the homeowners there...at a future date it would become impossible. Lash: I did, just to let you know I happen to, I carpool with a gal who lives right over by this and she just commented to me last night that she was very happy to see that. I think she lives by Sunset Ridge. That it had been graded and they were very happy to see that and I knew this was on and so I happened to mention this to her just to get her opinion of it. I said that my understanding of it was that a portion would be paved to the tennis courts but that the other part could be turf or it could be paved and her opinion is that turf would be adequate for the neighborhood use. She said that she would rather see a trail on Powers if we were going to spend. ,.... Koubsky: Todd do you know, in this whole area you know they are providing sidewalks through the lots, or do you know if sidewalks are slated for the west lots? Hoffman: Sidewalks are slated for Flamingo. Which side of the road they're on, I'm not sure. Koubsky: Because if they were on the west side that might be a little overkill to have sidewalks on the front of the house and then bituminous pavement on the back of the house. Erhart: How can we find that out? Hoffman: I can find out pretty easily if it's that much of a difference whether it's on the west or the east side but I know for sure that a sidewalk is going on Flamingo. Erhart: Because that would have something, it would make a difference to me on how I voted on this. Lash: I think even if it's on the east side. I mean you've got off street. Koubsky: Coming in on Lake Susan there on the west side. So I'm assuming they would carry it down Flamingo on the west side which would be in these lots here. ",.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 24 ...".", Lash: I guess the other thing that's in my mind is at our last meeting when we talked about the right-of-way on the railroad and that seemed to be something that we were all in favor of and that's going to cost us some money too so I hate to end up being short funds to do some of those kind of things as they come up that would benefit a more of the city. Schroers: I think that the real thing that we have to key on here is that whether or not we want to identify this as a turf and aggregate trail from this point forward. If we have any idea that at some point in time we're going to want to pave it, then now is the time to do it. Hoffman: Correct. And there is just differing uses. A hard surface trail versus turf trail provide distinct opportunities for each and if it's thought that those opportunities, be it skateboarding, rollerblading, access by wheel buggies, that kind of thing, can be carried out on the sidewalk and Flamingo Drive, that has some merIt. If we want to include those as part of the interior of the park, we'll look the other direction. Andrews: I just can't personally see providing both a paved trail and a sidewalk that close to each other. I think that's a waste of our resources when there are so many other areas in the city that are desperate for park funding. Robinson: I would agree with that totally. And all the points that Jan also made. Lash: It's not that I don't think it would be nice. It's just that fiscally I don't think that we have the money to do it in this area. ...", Schroers: I'm kind of assuming by the way it was presented here that staff didn't really have a preference or a particular recommendation on this issue? Hoffman: No. I was just merely presenting the information to the commission and allowing discussion to be held with a motion being made. We do however need to address the roadway issue. I apologize. That was not included as part of the report. Just in discussions within the past few days, the developer is taking a look at the grading plan and coordinating with our contractors with the work that is going to be done. If we want to include this as a separate contract, we need to look to doing that. Again, I've not received a firm estimate on that but that would be less than installing the whole entire trail segment in bituminous so it would be under $15,000.00. Under $17,000.00. And if we're going to do that, now's the time to do that as well. Andrews: That's the road connecting to the tennis court area? Hoffman: Yeah. The parking lot. We won't have a question raised. Whereas if we do it a year from now, we'll have to address the same question. Andrews: Can I put a motion forward so we can see if we can put it toa vote and see what we can do here? I'd like to move that we provide paved ....." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 25 access stubs between private property lines to the turf trail system and then also provide paving for the road entrance, the parking area and the connecting trail to the tennis court area. I think those were the three things you wanted Todd? Hoffman: Correct. Erhart: I'll second that. Andrews moved, Erhart seconded to direct staff to coordinate the installation of bituminous trail stubs at all entrance points to the park; the installation of the access road and parking area serving the sliding hill, play area and tennis court and the installation of the bituminous trail at the south end of the park linking these facilities as allowed by the 1991 Capital Improvement Budget. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously_ Andrews: I'd like to make one point for further discussion. Todd I'd appreciate on further issues like this if there is a sidewalk system, if you could include that in the report to the Commission because I think that was a key thing to this decision. Hoffman: Correct. I was kind of rushed preparing this packet. ",.... Erhart: That did make a big difference though to get it early. COMMISSIONER PRESENTATIONS: Lash: I'd just like to commend you guys on the summer activities that you have planned. The Super Events. I was the first one to sign my kids up. They really do though and I just think that's great to have those kind of activities for kids during the summer. Hoffman: Thanks Jan. The City newsletter did go to print today. Will be distributed. As you know, our park and recreation activities have become part of the overall city newsletter so you'll see that in the mail in the next 4 or 5 days. ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION: Schroers: Are there any particular points of interest there? Andrews: I want to make one comment. Todd, I really appreciate how you've kept us moving on all these projects. We've had something presented. It gets acted upon or if not you bring it back to us and I would really like to mention that. I appreciate that very much. Hoffman: Thanks Jim. Lash: Yes. And then I made a little note here but I can't find what it was. It was on Heritage Highlights. What thing was it? Oh yeah. That was it. This little circle thing on the geese control. Is that something ,..... maybe we could get inserted into the paper or in the city booklet or Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 21, 1991 - Page 26 ...."", something. There's a lot of people who are frustrated with geese and maybe that would be an easy solution for them to try. Hoffman: Oh the? Lash: The goose tape. Hoffman: You bet. Lash: That's a good idea. Hoffman: Another home remedy. Lash: Well I know some people who are frustrated with that situation. You should put that in the paper. Schroers: You know if we were able to change that, that Class B wetland at Pheasant Hills to a Class A, we would be promoting more nesting area. We would be looking at relocating more geese. Lash: But then we'd have to hire this guy to come pick them up over there too. Andrews: I guess the last thing. I've got one more thing too. With the Lake Ann Park pavillion construction, would that be anything that could be tied in with the 4th of July celebration as far as ground breaking or is there anything we can do to really kick that off? I think that's a big accomplishment for the City. """"'" Hoffman: That's a good point. I think it's going to be slightly premature but by no means does that mean it can't be included. Andrews: How about having the sketches and the artist renderings at the celebration for people to see it. I think peop!e would be impressed with that. Lash: Also, now that I think of it, Fiskness. No, not Fiskness. What's that Watershed. Erhart: Conrad. Lash: Conrad Fiskness. Yeah, that's it. He was telling us when we were hiking down in Bluff Creek the other day that he thinks, but he's not sure, that this is the 20th Anniversary of Lake Ann. Erhart: Right and we were supposed to check on that. Isn't it 20 years now since the development of that park? Hoffman: 71 to 91 sounds rea! c!ose. Erhart: He didn't know but. Hoffman: But 71 sounds right. ...."." Park and Rec Commission Meeting ~ May 21, 1991 - Page 27 Lash: Maybe the 4th of July we could kind of beef up just the fact that it's the 20 year anniversary. Just throw that in. Hoffman: We've got a lot of things. We've got the war to ride in on and everything's red, white and blue and the 20th and the ground breaking. Good ideas. Andrews: Did we invite General Schwartzkopf to come to our 4th of July? Hoffman: Not yet but we asked Prince and anyone else with money for contribution to the park shelter and did not receive any. But I did see that two local companies, OataServ and Varitronics bought one of the $100,000.00 host tents at the U.S. Open so they had a little cash to spend. Koubsky: Medtronics did? Hoffman: Varitronics and DataServ. Schroers: I just have a question for anyone who attended the Bluff Creek orientation. That was, the timing on that was not good in conjunction with opening of fishing but did anything of particular interest come up or anything happen during your tour that you felt the rest of us should be enlightened on? /"'- Lash: You should know, yes. Dawne was there in her form, leaping from rock to rock. Crossing the creek and teetering across logs and she deserves a letter of accommodation.for that. Above and beyond the call. We were all pretty worried but anyway, there were some Council members there and they were very impressed and I think they seemed to be extremely supportive of the idea of trying to come up with some way or form of doing something to preserve that. I think it's being addressed already isn't it by the Planning Commission or it's going to be shortly? Erhart: Yeah, quite a few of the Planners were there. Lash: And another thing that they did kind of teeter around a little bit. There was no commitment or anything but there was talk that maybe the route to go with if the City was interested in pursuing the golf course idea would be to try and consolidate the Bluff Creek Golf Course because then we'd be killing two birds with one stone. Getting the golf course and then they own about half the bluff creek area. Schroers: Alright. Good. Robinson moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in.favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:10 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim ,....