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PRC 1991 11 19 "'" CHANHASSEN PARK ANb RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 19, 1991 Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order 7:33 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Larry Schroers, Wendy Pemrick~ Dawn Erhart, Jim Andrews, Jan Lash and Curt Robinson MEMBERS ABSENT: Dave Koubsky STAFF PRESENT: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor ESTABLISH 1992 PARK AND TRAIL DEDICATION FEES. Schroers: We are going to postpone items 1 and 2 on the agenda and come back to them at the appropriate time and we'll begin with item 3 which is to establish the 1992 Park and Trail Dedlcation fees. Take it away Jerry. Ruegemer: We'll start out with the memo from Todd. City Code requires that Park and Trail dedication requirements be established by resolution of the City Council on an annual basis. The intention of the City Council is to develop and implement a park open space acquisition and develop policies to protect the public interest and welfare of the community relative to parks, open space and recreation. The land acqui~ed or cash paid in lieu of land dedication is indisposable in insuring that this and other goals ."...... t.owards preserving the quality of life in Chanhassen are realized. The basic premise is that 10% of land being developed or the cash equivalent of that 10% of property be dedicated or paid in fees. The City of chanhassen, as many other communities, has established a benchmark of maintaining 1 acre of active park space. Active specifies land which is appropriated for play or activity for each 75 residents in neighborhood areas. The following formulas are used in calculating the fees from which the recommendation for establishment of the 1992 fee schedule is based. If you go to the back page, we'll just go through. A survey of land cost in residential, industrial and commercial areas of Chanhassen and Chaska show that the average land cost for unimproved property have not decreased or increased significantly and remain on average. Those go up through the commercial and industrial is a $2,500.00 per acre. Residential by the formula is $467.00 per home. Multi-family per Todd's examples is $427.00 per unit. That's based on the formulas that Todd has calculated. Schroers: We need td make a correction Jerry on the'industrial/commercial. You said $2,500.00 and it's $25,000.00. Ruegemer: Per acre? Schroers: Yeah. Ruegemer: $25,000.00 per acre? Andrews: It's a development cost. "..... Schroe.s: mistake. That's what it says here. Okay. $2,500.00 per acre. Oh, I see where you are. That's my Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 2 -'" Ruegemer: Okay. With the land values and population data rema~n~ng essentially constant, it is recommended that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council establish the 1992 park and trail fees by resolution at the 1991 rates. Residential single family, duplex units $500.00 per unit. Multi-family units, $440.00 per unit. Commercial and industrial, $2,500.00 per unit and trail dedication fees is one-third of park dedication fees. If you take a look at the attachments. It just goes through the different cities in the m'etro area and what their trail fees are per unit with the wide variety of prices going from $868.00 in Plymouth to $389.00 in Coon Rapids. Also there are multi-family with the same types of cities in the metro. Also with the commercial and industrial land. Also for your viewing, there's also the selected population housing characteristics of Chanhassen from the census from 1990. Is there any comments or questions from the Commission? Schroers: We'll open it up to commission member comments or suggestions. Does anyone have anything specific? Andrews: I think we ought to adopt staff recommendation and leave our system in place. Not changed as is. Schroers: I feel that it's obvious that staff has put considerably amount of effort into this and are more knowledgeable on this than we as a commission are and I would agree with Jim to concur but what I'm noticing here is that we are slightly below average. If you take the low at $389.00 ...." and the high at $860.00.. If we were to average the two I think that we would fall just slightly short and that may be something we want to consider for 1993. But if we are in agreement to accept the '91, then we're ready to entertain a motion. Andrews: I move that we accept staff recommendation and leave our fees unchanged from 1991. Pemrick: I'll second. Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to establish the 1992 park and trail fees by resolution at the 1991 rates of: Residential Single Family/Duplex Units Multi-Family Units Commercial/Industrial Trail Dedication Fees $500.QO/unit $440.00/unit $2,500.00/ acre 1/3 Park Dedication Fees All voted in favor and the motion carried. Schroers: I'm just going to update Jan briefly on where we're at. Because we're not all here and because Wendy and me were abs.nt at the last meeting, we can't, we have to abstain from to accept the Minutes so we don't have a quorum. Therefore we decided to skip down to item 3 because we're not ready to deal with item 2. So with item 3 out of the way we're ~oing on to item 4. -' ,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 3 UPDATE 5 YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. COMMUNITY PARKS. Ruegemer: Item 4. Update 5 year capital improvement program for community parks. To continue working on updating the park acquisition and development 5 year capital improvement program the following information has been prepared for the city's seven community parks. Since community parks are typically larger and fulfill needs not met by neighborhood parks, a different approach to their development is typically been utilized by the city. As such the city has in the past made use of grant programs available at the State and Federal level. Numbero~s grants for land acquisition and development have been utilized for Lake Ann Park, Lake Susan Park and the South Lotus Lake Boat Access. This office is currently preparing to submit a preliminary application to the Minnesota Department of Trade and Economic Development for financial assistance for the development of Bandimere Community Park in the year 1993. I would anticipate discussion on this item will parallel discussion on neighborhood parks with the exception of being less defined in terms of available funding. At that, if we take a look to our second page we have a work book. Each community park is in order of alphabetized here and we'll start out with Bandimere Community Park and we'll go through Bluff Creek, Chan Pond Park, City Center Park, Lake Ann Park, Lake Susan Park and South Lotus Lake Park. With that we can start the discussion starting with Bandimere ~ Community Park for the 5 year capital improvement program. Pemrick: I have a question on the last part of that. The second paragraph on the first page about currently preparing to submit a preliminary application. That's just to apply in 1993? It's not to begin the actual development. Ruegemer: No. What this grant is, there's several different grants that you can apply for. But with this it's specific to recreation or community development. What it is, it is set up by the Minnesota Trade and Economic Development program. What you have to do then is, it goes on a, like the Lake Susan project was grant money. Now from that there's a 2 year cycle where you cannot apply for that same type of recreation grant. So then we would be available again, actually it would have been this year to get matching funds in any type of community project going on but now we're going to be applying now for 1993 for any of the money the City puts up. If we do receive that grant, they will match that. The grant so that's what Todd means by getting going on this development process and this application process. Typi~ally the grants and the applications are due in, is it the early summer to mid-summer for the following year so we just missed the deadline for this year. But we'll be continuing on.. We'll do the preliminary grant application next spring and we'll conclude then in mid-summer and we'll hear something back. We'll be going through that process and I will keep you updated on that process, of that application process. Lash: How long does that take? ~. Ruegemer: To go through the application process? Typically it goes, you apply for the grants in summer. Typically you hear something in late September. They'11 award, they like to get everybody together and go through the different, how the grant was developed and how you're going to Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 4 ..", be using the money. Kind of screen people just to make'sure that what they applied for is actually the project that they're going to complete. So they will go through that and that's about in December is when they do that. Then in February they'll get everybody together again for like a final orientation so to speak just to get everyone familiar with the grant and how it wor-ks. So it's a fairly lengthy process but it's well worth it if you can get some matching grants. Andrews: Do we have a master plan of any type of Bandimere? Schroers: It says a concept master plan was prepared in 1989 and that was at a cost of $1,500.00 and I guess for us to go ahead with this work program here, it would be really helpful to have that master park plan to lodk at. Currently as it exists, there's absolutely nothing in Bandimere Community Park. What we're going to need to do is prioritize what we would like to see done first and I'm not sure if the concept master plan has phases of construction outlined on it or not. Pemrick: There were also two plans. A plan A and a Plan B depending on the pipeline. That ~ould be accommodated. Has that been established whether the pipeline's going to, to sway it to A or to B. There was supposed to be some communication with William's Pipeline. Lash: We haven't heard anything back on that. ...",# Schroers: I think what I heard was the pipeline was buried to a point that it should not interfere with any of our construction plans. Erhart: Even with the grading Larry? Schroers: Yes. Erhart: Because they have to go kind of. Lash: Actually what I thought the problem was with the grading and the landscaping that we needed to do, was in some areas it would end up being too deep and it needs to be...inaccessible in case they need to get at it. Erhart: That's what I remember hearing too. Schroers: I guess I don't know specifically where we're at with that. I seem to recall something about the depth of the pipeline was checked and that it shouldn't interfere with our development plans but I can't, I don't have anything substantial to verify that. Lash: all see the one quite a We maybe need to check into and also look back into, maybe we should because I remember back when we discussed that, it was Sue Boyt was that bro~ght up communicating with William's Pipeline sO it's been while. Erhart: I also thought they weren't getting back to the City. Lash: But I think maybe we need to see both plans again and let this Commission decide again which one they think because we've got a lot of new .."", ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 5 people. Andrews: Obviously if we're talking about submitting for a grant, I think we ought to have some concept about what it is we're working towards and what the timeline is that we're working with. Lash: The facilities I think were pretty much the same from A to B. It was just the layout and that was affected by the pipeline wasn't it? Andrews: We definitely have to have reliable information regarding this pipeline. And if that means we need to recontact Williams and either get somebody from the company here or respond to a direct question. What is it? Erhart: I'm sure Todd can answer that. Andrews: Well we need to have that I think so I'd like to see us defer on Bandimere until we get that information. "'" Schroers: Okay. The only information that we have is for rough grading in 1992. There's a cost estimate of $10,000.00 and for general improvements, $300,000.00 for a total of $310,000.00. Without specific information here to guide us, I would agree that I don't think we can pursue anything here that would have any credibility. So let's go over Bandimereand I think the same is true foY" Bluff Creek. We don't have information on Bluff Creek. We don't a concept plan I don't believe for Bluff Creek. We have trail improvements for $15,000. Road access for $10,000.00 and land acquisition for $50,000.00 for a total of $75,000.00. That's from 1992 and on into the future and again, we don't have any criteria to base any meaningful discussion on it. Andrews: When was that land acquired? Schroers: I don't know that it's all been acquired. There's $50,000.00 plugged into 1992 and beyond for acquisition. Andrews: I mean is this park currently city property or is this a planned park that we hope to make it city property? Schroers: Planned. Andrews: Okay. That's what I t.hought. I just thought, gee I didn't know we already owned this thing. Schroers: Right now it's referred to as the Bluff Creek Watershed. Lash: There was talk, when we toured that last spring and there were Council members there and there was talk about the golf course and the hopes that maybe the City would look into acquiring that plus the property. I've never heard anything back on that. ,...... Andrews: The economic climate is not going to allow that. At least for the next few years. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 6 ....." Lash: The City? Schroers: Okay, so in regards to Bluff Creek, we're also going to put that OD hold pending further relativ~ information that will enable us to actively pursue something credible in regards to Bluff Cree~ Park. Okay. We can move on to Chanhassen Pond Park. Now we're getting somewhere. We do have on street parking. We have trails, bituminous and turf and we have one park sign. Can't imagine that we need anything else. Our intent with Chanhassen Pond Park was to have that basically a passive use park. Primarily natural area with a walking, hiking type trail around the pond that was going to be either turf or an aggregate trail and I believe the turf trail has been mowed. It basically hasn't had any grading of any kind. It's just been rough mowed so people could walk around the lake without having to fight their way through the vegetation. But there's been no grading done on the trail. There was also talk of putting a couple of picnic tables in so people could sit and relax and a wooden type observation bench that would overlook the pond where people could just sit and relax and observe the various wildlife views in the pond. Also, there was talk of putting up some wood duck nests and possibly bluebird houses and things of that n?ture. I think we were pretty on track with what we wanted to do there. We wanted to have a couple of nice amenities like the overlook bench and the picnic tables and we would like to do something for the area to enhance it's richness like bluebird houses and wood duck houses and that sort of thing but we didn't want to over develop. We didn't want to put in an asphalt trail and even an aggregate trail. We felt that might ~ be a little overkill in the area. Because of the steep terrain surrounding the pond and that sort of thing, an aggregate trail would lend itself to a washing out and that sort of thing whereas a turf trail would prevent eTosion and sediment from going into the pond and that sort of thing so we just basically wanted to maintain turf trail. Put in a couple of picnic tables. Probably up on top where it's good viewing and there are some nice oak trees there so they could be somewhat shaded. Lash: I think that's been done hasn't it? Schroers: I don't know if the picnic tables are actually there or not and I should know because I go along that trail all the time. Lash: I was thinking that those had been added but. Schroers: I don't think the picnic tables are in place personally. And there was also talk of having a sliding hill there which is, it's a good idea. It's a good location for a sliding hill but the residents who live on the southeast side tend to slide right out of their backyards. I don't think that we really need to do anything in terms of a formal sliding hill other than maybe making sure that there's an area clear and putting up signs that would indicate sliding permitted at your own risk between signs so we know that we have a safe area that people can slide in and from that point on it's up to Mother Nature to provide the snow to make adequate sliding and it's not something that we would spend a lot of time or money on maintaining. Andrews: Let's do it. ~ "". Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 7 Erhart: Yeah, the bird houses. The picnic tables. Ruegemer: Do we also need to take a look at existing, like the steps that are existing there and the Boy Scout bridges. We do need to do maintenance on those? Upkeep? Schroers: I think that is as warranted. You know, I think that the maintenance crew should at some point in time however often, maybe you know once a month during the summer take a look at the steps and at the bridges to make sure they're in good repair and that there isn't a safety concern. Lash: I thought we had the bird houses and stuff down there already too. Didn't an Eagle Scout or something do wood duck houses? Ruegemer: There are some wood duck houses down there. Lash: Blue bird too? Schroers: I think there are some wood duck houses. I don't know about blue bird but I think that is the sort of a thing where an Audubon club or bird watchers or another Scout project or something like that could go and construct it or take it on as a project and I don't think it's anything that we need to earmark money or time and labor for. 11"'" Erhart: How about the observation deck Larry? Would that be a project for somebody or is that something? Schroers: That observation bench certainly would make a good Eagle project. It is also somethin~ that we could do if we just wanted to get it in place. One of the things that we should probably consider is that we have so much to do and so much that we want to do. Things that are affordable and can be done with the resources that are now available to us, we should go ahead and do so we're gaining some ground and we're making some accomplishments. I can't imagine that even if we have to purchase a bench and have it installed that we would be talking over $500.00. Robinson: It looks like in 1988, according to our 5 year plan there, I assume it was done in 1988 because it goes out 5 years. We were going to spend $400.00 on wood duck houses in 1989 and $600.00 on benches. And here it is 1991, almost 1992 and we still haven't done that. Lash: Well how do we know if we've done it or not? Rugemer: It should be in the, if you look on the next page. It should be on the inventory sheet. Lash: You're talking about benches. Was that up on the top like along Kerber? Schroers: Yeah. ,.... Lash: There is something up there. I know I walk past there and it seems like some things have been done but I can't say exactly what I've seen. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 8 ..."" 'Andrews: Are you talking like an observation deck? Schroers: No. No. Just a bench. Just a benc~ for sitting on and over looking the pond. So you can just sit there and relax. If we're talking an observation deck, then we're generally talking about something, a structure that extends out over the hill, that's elewated and that sort 6f thing and then we're getting into a whole more dollars and something. Andrews: That's why I askedtMe question. I wanted to make sure I understood what we're talking about. Schroers: Just a bench that will accommodate 20r 3 people to sit on and just relax and take in the vista. Andrews: I think we've got to get the benches done. We've been talking about it for 4 years. Schroers: I think what we want to do is ask staff to give us a current inventory on what is going on there and to give staff the okay to go ahead with the benches if they're not in place. To also, if we feel that you want to designate an area f~r sliding, that we need to send the maintenance crew down there who would be the most, 'have the most expertise on that and have them choose what they feel is the safest, best area to slide and make sure that it's free of obstacles. Branches, old posts, barbed wire, that sort of thing and make sure that it's unobstructed and safe. Then just ..."", install a couple of signs that say sliding permitted between the signs at your own risk. Erhart: Do we want to give them permission also to go ahead with getting some tables budgeted for that:area? Or do we want to hold off on that? Schroers: No, I think we want to get the picnic tables in place also. They're not major cost items and we'd like to get Chan Pond Park up and running. Up to sp~ed and then we can go on with needs in other areas. Andrews: Let's do it. Ruegemer: Do you want to put a cap on the benches? Just to go ahead and do it and earmark so much. Schroers: I think it needs to be decided whether we want one or two benches and then I would think that it would be unrealistic to spend more than $5qO.00 per bench including having them in place. Andrews: Set a $1,000.00 limit. Schroers: $1,000.00 limit for two or $500.00 limit for one. Andrews: Okay. Lash: I see that there was erosion correction in 1991 and then also there was budgeted for 1992 plus, another $2,000.00. Is that something we need to continue to budget money for erosion correction every so many years? ...."., ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 ~ Page 9 Schroers: I think that should be on an as needed basis. I think that the maintenance staff should bring that to our attention. When it occurs and we should at ~hat point in time make a decision on it. Something like that is totally dependent on what the weather does and it's hard to. Lash: I thought maybe it was an ongoing problem just because it had been slated a couple different times. Schroers: Maybe it's incorrect. What we're going to have to do at this point is stop our discussion of the 5 year capital improvement program here and we're going to have to go back to item 1 and item 2. Item 1 we can get out of the way real fas~ now that we have a quorum here so let's go to that quickly. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission dated October 22, 1991 as amended. WendyPemrick was absent from the meeting so her name should be deleted wherever it appears. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION APPLICATION INTERVIEWS. " Schroers: Briefly, before Jan and Curt were here, the criteria is here. The list of questions is here. Last time we used a numerical scoring system with 1 to 10. Giving each applicant a numerical score. At the end we added up the scores and the highest score was the first appointed~ or the first recommended. The second highest score was the second recommended. We used a scoring system of 1 to 10 last time. I would say that we could drop that down to 1 to 5 and simplify it a little bit. And then what we do is we make it rather informal as not to intimidate the applicants. We just move the tables together and gather the chairs around the table and have them come in and sit down. What our mission here is to be fair and to ask the same questions of each applicant in the same way so they have a fair and equal chance to respond to each question and then we just use our own best judgment and attach a numerical score to each person. Lash: With 5 being the best? Schroers: 5 being the best and 1 being the lowest and there is no zero. If they showed up they get 1 point. (The Commission outlined the procedures for interviewing the applicants.) FRED BERG: Schroers: This is going to be quite informal. We want you to be comfortable. What we have is, we have some criteria that we base our application process on and a list of questions. We ask .each applicant a list of questions in the same manner and then we have a scoring system by which we score and the two people that have the high scores will be the people that get recommended to Council for approval. Generally speaking I""" t.nat's. . .so we're not goi ng to waste anymore time. We're goi ng to jump right into it and we'll take our questions in turn. I will start with the first question. And that is a pretty simple one. Do you feel you have the time to make th.e comm! tment? We meet once a month and there is some Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 10 ,.",Ii preparation work involved. We get an information packet that varies in... but it takes a little time to review the material and then attend a meeting once a month and there are pther things that come up during the course of the year that aren't required of us b0t w~ feel it's our obligation to get somewhat involved and help out where we can. Like the 4th of July celebration. A couple people donate a couple hours and then... Do you feel that you have the time? Fred Berg: Yeah I do. It's a question I weighed before I submitted by application. Particularly the second time. I have two daughters, a 12 year old ~nd almost a.7 year old and they're at a point now where they're not spending quite as much time at home. I coached for 10 years up at the High School. I assisted in Girls Basketball and quit that a few years ago because of the time commitment. This appeals to me...because it isn't the same kind of time. That was 5 nights a week. Two of those nights were 10:30-11:00 at night before I got home. Yeah, to answer very simply, I think I can make that time commitment. I wouldn't have come to this point if I didn't think so. Schroers: Okay. Very good. Dawne? Erhart: What is your impression of the current Park and Recreation Commission and what do you feel that you could add either with your expertise. . .? 'WffIIiI" Fred Berg: As far as my feeling of the parks that are in existence now, I'm a tennis player so I think they're really nice. I enjoy playing tennis. I played tennis up at the courts by the elementary school before I moved to Chanhassen. We got a group together that just came out here. I'm not really an expert in the kinds of parks that you've been building lately other than drive by over at Lake Susan for example and noticed the nice ballfields and different kinds of courts there. What I like about them and what I think I can add to it in terms of, I don't know if I'd ever say I have expertise in that area because I've never done anything like this before. But what I think I like about them and what I think I could add to it maybe in way of hoping that that kind of thing could continue would be the idea of, what I like about the parks is there seems to be very family oriented. We spend a lot of time at, I can~t even remember the name of it. Right by the New Horizon townhomes there. Green something. Lash: Meadow Green. Fred Berg: Meadow Green, that's what it is. Spent a lot of time there with my daughter. Can go over there and play on the jungle gym. My oldest daughter can run the dog around the area, on a leash of course. And my wife and I can play tennis. It's very nice that it's centrally located. It's nice that .it's family oriented and I think the same thing looks like it would be true with Lake Susan and the other parks where they're oriented towards the family and I guess in thinking too, they're safe. They appear to be safe places. I don't really know, to be p~rfectlyhonest with you, how to answer the question about expertise because I quite frankly don't have a lot of expertise in this area other than I know the kinds of things that I used to like to do as a kid and I know the kinds of things that the kids in our neighborhood do and that would pe the kind of feedback I would ..."", tII"'. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 11 illicit. I would assume that before you plan a park or do any kind of park building, you look at things like demographics and what people want. What they need and what they want. Lash: What do you feel that the role of the Park and Rec Commissioner is? Fred Berg: I would guess that it has to be a ve,'y good 1 istener. You have constituents just like everyone else does and I'm sure in a community that's growing like Chanhassen is, you've got people coming at you from all types of directions. I would think that a park commissioner has got to be a very good listener and very diplomatic and someone open to communicate. I don't mean by open to communications just by listening to people and saying that's really good. Thank you for your input but maybe going back afterwards and explaining the decisions that were made. I think sometimes public officials have a tendency to make decisions and they have to make decisions sometimes quickly and I realize with the demands of time and everything else, that everyone has other jobs, that it's not always easy to communicate later. But a communicator can figure out a way to communicate someway to those people who are affected by that decision. If they wanted the park here and it's being put here, explain to them why. Or at least make them feel comfortable enough to ask you why. And not say well there's another bureaucratic decision. You can't fight City Hall. I'd like to think that this... I'm sure it's not always easy... ",...... Pemrick: What are your feelings regarding conservation... Fred'Berg: Can I ask you for your definition of passive versus active? Pemrick: Passive is more where you just relax and watch nature. Fred Berg: Okay, an Arboretum type... As far as the environment is concerned, I don't think there's a whole lot of issues that I feel stronger about. I'd like to think that I'm conveying to my daughters the urgency of doing something with the environment and that we can do something about it. Whether it be simple things such as recycling. Whether it be talking in my classes where it's appropriate about such things as environment concern for it. I think it's a vitally important issue. I can't imagine anybody can sit here and not say that. I guess I would like to see a balance between the active and passive. I think there's a real strong need for the kind of place that you can go where you can...get some tranquility. I think often, and this isn't the same kind of thing but it gives you an idea of my feeling. Notmandale Junior College over in Bloomington, they have a Japanese Garden. I don't know if any of you have ever been there but to me it's just the most tranquil place to go. Right in the middle of the city. Right off of France Avenue and right off of Normandale Blvd. I think and the whole world going around you and you can walk into there and it's just an incredibly peaceful place to just sit and watch the clouds or watch the grass grow or as the Japenese say, listen to the rocks...and I don't know if you want a Japanese garden in the middle of Chanhassen someplace ~ but if you've got someplace like that whete somebody can go In and feel safe and comfort~ble and just have a quiet place to be. Whether it's to walk with your kids or your wife who you haven't Mad a chance to talk to for a couple of days because of your job, that's nice. I think the active I j Park and Rec Commission M~eting November 19, 1991 - Page 12 ....." parks speak for themselves. I think you have to have a place, I'm very strongly in favor of having a place where kids can have recreation because dealing with kids all the time that I do in High School, you've got to have places where they can go. You've got to be able to provide things for them. I know my daughter played basketball and a year of softball through the Park and Rec here in Chan and just loved it. So did I ~..,hen I was . playing in Minneapolis and it provides an opportunity for kids to do something. To be able to get 4 or 5 people together and go down to the park and play basketball. I guess there's a balance. If I had to choose one or the other, because I don't think there's so many of them, I think I would lean towards the passive. Just because I don't know that there's lots of opportunities for that. If I had to choose. Robinson: Could you just elaborate a little on why you wish to serve on the Park and Rec Commission? Fred Berg: Couple reasons. First of all, in my profession dealing with kids all the time as I've elaborated on, I see a real need for that. I see a real need for the kids to have places to go. I think this community has done a terrific job so far in providing those things for kids. I want to be part of the Park and Rec Commission in the hopes that that tradition can continue. The other reason 'is I've always advocated to my kids at school and my kids at home that if you're a part of a community, you should be involved in it and take an active role in it and I haven't always done a real good job of listening to my advice. Last year when this opening ....." occurred and I applied obviously because I thought it was time that I do start getting involved and start putting something back in. Chanhassen is a wonderful place to work. A wonderful place to live and I guess I'd like to have something to say about the future of it. Those are the two basic reasons. Schroers: I'll tell you what Fred, you're done. It was just that easy. I think that you did a really good job. There were a couple of things in particular that I noticed that I keyed on that we were definitely looking for. Balance is one. That's real important. I think you've done a good Job. Robinson: Just so you understand. We are not a decision making body. Fred Berg: You recommend to the City Council. Robinson: Right. Fred Berg: When you make recommendations to the City Council, are they generally followed? Schroers: Pretty much they. are.. Robinson: If they're not, we understand why. Fred Berg: What are some of the things, if you don't mind me asking a question. --" Schroers: We don't mind you asking a couple questions but we also have ,..., Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 13 people waiting so we need to move along but we will answer a couple of questions. Fred Berg: What are the kinds of things you get involved in in term$ of decision making or recommending t guess? Schroers: I guess a good way to put it is what we do is we try to acquire and develop park and trail space for the City of Chanhassen and we take a lot of things into consideration. One of the things yoU mentioned was demographics. We look at the area and we decide whether or not the area is park deficit. What amenities it has or what we want there and what surrounding parks, where they're located and what amenities they offer and we try to create, serve the needs and also to give some variety so that all of our parks aren't the same. We take a lot of things into consideration and also we're big on trying to find creative ways of funding because the financial resources are strained at best. We use a dedication process. We require developers to either dedicate a portion of their development or pay fees in lieu of dedication and that's our decision. We decide and if the developer declines, then he doesn't get issued a building permit. Fred Berg: Rosemount had something to do I believe with the Lake Susan Park? r- Schroers: Yes. Rosemount was very good to work with and I think we got 1.7 acres of land from them which was very nice. The commercial development~ in town contribute significantly to our parks and trails as do the single family residences and the multiple and all that. So there's really a lot that's involved. We have a lot of work to do here. There's no doubt about that and we do have our work cut out for us. Mainly furiding is what really limits what we can do but we try t.o somet.imes have a brainst.orming session and try to come up wit.h new ways of getting funding. Fred Berg: Do you have a set budget. from the City Council? Lash: We set. usually a yearly budget. that's approved by the Cit.y Council and t.hen like tonight we're working on 5 year long range budget. That's not definitely. Fred Berg: Wow. I think that'd be real hard to do with the community changing as fast as Chanhassen. Schroers: It is. It's a 5 year capital improvement plan and not.hing is cast in stone but we set goals. What we'd like to achieve in the first year and what we'd like to achieve in the second year and try to earmark funding to accommodate that. It's a continuing process and it continues and it continues and it continues. It takes a while. Lash: pie. ...everybody in town feels like they're getting their piece of the So one park isn't. getting more t.han it's share. Fred Berg: That makes me think of another question. Are you ~ geographically represented on t.he Commission? Do you try to achieve that kind of balance? Schroers: That is part of our criteria here right now and we have to take Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 14 -" that into consideration in making our selection. Fred Berg: I would think that would be real important. If you want your constituency to believe that you're a 'legitimate organization in terms of truly representing the entire community, I think you have to. Schroers: That is one of the considerations. Thank you very much fOr your time. Fred Berg: Thank you fOr your time. I appreciate it. Schroers: You're welcome and I think you'll be getting something from the City in regards to how this process all WOrked out. BRUCE GRAUSAM Schroers:What we do here Bruce is we have a criteria on which we base our questions. We've got 5 questions that we ask the exact same question to each applicant and then we have a scoring process and at the end of the interviews we just add up the scores and the two people with the highest scores will get passed onto the City Council for recommendation. So we ask each question the same to each applicant to insure that it's fair. VerY informal. Feel comfortable and we'll begin. I think Jim gets the first question this time. ....." Andrews: Do you feel that you have the time to make the commitment to the Park and Rec Commission? Bruce Grausam: I do. Between my work and I'm new to the area and everything like that so being involved fOr me is a big plus. As far as . being involved in the community and knowing what's going on and being a part of that to help make decisions and better direct... As far as. the time, I'm involved in some sports outside but... Schroers: This will be a difficult question fOr you because you don't know at this point what all is involved here but OUr meetings are generally. orily once a month. Sometimes more and there's an infOrmation packet sent out prior to the meeting that you need to spend some time going over to familiarize yourself with the issues that are on the agend~ so -you know what's going on fOr the meeting. The size of those packets vary. Some of them you can maybe go through in an hour and sometimes it may take 2 Or 3 hours to go through. It's not a requirement but generally we volunteer our services fOr events like 4th of July Or the Halloween Party Or the Easter Egg Hunt. Things like that that we volunteer a few hours of QUr time. It's not an extensive amount of time but it is a commitment and you have to have some time available. Bruce Grausam: That's what I guess I look fOrward to. It's just that type of involvement in the things. When you see people being involved in things like that yoU say, well that's kind of fun. Being part of a group and they get to meet people just through the different activities. That kind of thi ng. . . ...,., "..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 15 Schroers: Okay, real good. I've got the second question. This is also going to be difficult for you to answer because you're new but what is your impression of the current Park and Recreation system and what do you feel you can add in the form of expertise and knowledge? Bruce Grausam: I've visited moved here. I've only been a so... As far as what I could and some things like that... I've heard. a couple of the parks in the area since I've resident of Chanhassen since the end of June go into I guess is just... What I like to do This is what people I see like doing and what Schroers: Okay. Have you had any kind of previous experience? Bruce Grausam: Experience with the parks? Schroers: With the park system? Working for parks in another community? Bruce Grausam: No I haven't ever worked for a park...and we did soil erosion control and stuff like that. Helped out.. .kind of wildlife, forestry program... That's probably about the most...parks I go to. Schroers: Real good. Thanks. JI"'" Lash: What do you feel the role of the Park and Rec Commission is? Bruce Grausam: I guess on that point, the way I perceive the Park and Rec would be to give guidance as far as what things do we feel will make Chanhassen a better community to live in. Promote more community involvement. Get people together so that people can interact in a more casual envi~onm~nt. Whether it be on the 4th of July or Halloween... To get together things like, to ask the goard. ..or things we see that the community might need. ...putting a jungle gym here like they did for the school...maybe an idea that we might have. Give direction... Pemrick: what are your feelings regarding conservation and en~ironment and passive parks versus active parks? Bruce Grausam: Passive parks? Can I ask for a description? Pemrick: Passive would be, have you been to Chan Pond Park? It doesn't have ballfields. It's more of a wildlife, nature park. Natural area versus...ballfields. Bruce Grausam: I guess they both have their place. I enjoy the ball parks and their fields and things that you can do there but I think...things like that. On the other hand I also like. ..Carver County. Walking in the woods to get away. It's real nice to kind of go out on your own. I think in their different areas each individual they...different purpose. Some people... That's where I see-the nice part about the area is that they do have people, select people. ..it's important to have a balance between the .~ two... As far as the conservation. To me it's important that they be kept up...there's enough waste baskets. There's places for people to go to the bathroom. Places like that so they aren't abusing it. As far as Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 16 ...."I conservation and things like that, people are actually out...is this side of this hill going down the path... Pemrick: Okay finally, could you elaborate on why you wish to serve on the Park and Recreation Commission? In a nutshell. Bruce Grausam: I guess I-'ve always had this great ambition to work outdoors and be a part of something where you can actually see what you do. Right now I'm a computer programmer and that's not being outside. It's behind a desk and you sit there for 8 hours a day...on a computer and things like that. This would be a great escape to actually be able to do something for the community. Be involved. To say this is what I do for my community. This is what I like about living here. I enjoy the outdoors a lot. I spend a lot of time because I am inside so much. That's kind of the big picture... Schroers: Well Bruce, you made it through and I don't see any blood. You did real good. You had good answers and we appreciate you taking the time and the effort to come up here tonight and apply. We'll answer a couple of brief questions if you have any. Otherwise we'll move along and take care of the other people that are waiting. (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.)' Schroers: . ..the trails are our main focus and we do not make the final ...."I decision. We're kind of like a research group or a work group for the City Council and we look at all these issues and we study them and then we make recommendations and we pass it onto the Council for approval. That's basically what our job is but it includes everything that has to do with the parks and trails including the programming, the staffing and the whole 9 yards so there is a lot of work we do here. If you're looking for involvement, there's plenty to get involved with. Lash: .. .we are also looking at trying to get a bike trail.. .cross over TH 5. . . .somebody gives us a lot of money. ,We just don't have that kind of money. Schroers: We try to woyk along with development. When they improve the highway, the State comes through, we can lobby with the State saying that there is going to be a lot of pedestrian traffic in this specific area and can we include a safe pedestrian access of some kind or another and lobby to the State for help on that. But to just go ahead and construct one, I guess we'd probably be looking at a quarter of a million dollars and our budget for the whole 6ity for the entire year is $150,000.00 so. We'd come up a little short on something like that. Bruce Grausam: I just thought that...J know a lot of kids between the two areas...That's another way that the community gets split is by a major access to the city so I was thinking. Schroers: It's a really good point and it's something that we definitely focus on a lot. The trail system, we have in OUT capital improvements program a proposed trail system for the entire city and we put parts and pieces in place when we can. Our first preference is to have off street -"" "..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 17 trails. In the ditch. A separate path where there is no traffic concern. However, funding and utilities and all sorts of things come into play there and some places we have to go to off street where we just paint the white lines. Thanks very much for your time Bruce. CY CHILDS Schroers: We are the Park and Rec Commission and we conduct these interviews where there are going to be vacancies and there are two corning up in, when is it January 1st? Okay. The way we conduct these interviews here is we have a set of criteria that we base our questions on. We have just 5 questions. We ask the same question of each applicant in the same manner to make it as fair and as equitable a system as possible. We attach a numerical score to each applicant's answers and then we pick, in this instance there are two positions going to be available so the two highest scores we pass on to the City Council for approval and recommendations. We left off with Wendy asked the last question right so Curt, we'll start on the first question. When we're'done with the question we'll give you an opportunity to ask us a couple of questions. Okay? Robinson: Do you feel that you've got the time to make a commitment... ,.... Cy Childs: . . . yes. I live right down the street. I'm at a time in my life where I'm... I'm just centering on my home and my community right now. So those are my priorities. Schroers: Do you want to elaborate a little bit Curt on the amount of time? Robinson: We meet once a month... There's some preparation work usually involved.. .during the weekend. Between Friday and Tuesday. Going through that takes maybe an hour to 3 hours... You've expected to take part in... 4th of July, Oktoberfest, Easter Egg Hunt. Schroers: It's hard to say actually the number of hours that we have to put in but there is more than just attending the meeting for 3 hours once a month. There's generally a couple hours of preparation time for the meeting and then a couple hours here and there to support the community events. So you feel that you have the time for that? ' Andrews: Next question is, what is your impression of the current park and recreatiori system... Cy Childs: My only experiences have been primarily.. .all I do is playa little softball over there. ...35 and over league and we've been swimming a little bit. Basically that's been my useage of what's here as far as public facilities. My son isn't of a age yet to play any ball... Andrews: ...expertise, what do you think that would bring to the Park Board Dr the community? ,..... \ Cy Childs: Just the fact that I have a decent mind and I can absorb information and make an honest decision on something. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 18 ....""" Schroers: We u~derstand that this is a difficult question for you and that you've only been in the community for 6 months and so it's really difficult for you to evaluate the current program here and we don't expect that you ~ould have a lot of information or a deep seeded impression of what currently is going on here. We do understand that. Cy Childs: I wish I could... Schroers: That's good. At least you're a paying customer. What do you feel is, and this is another question that might be difficult for a short term resident. What do you feel the role of the Park and Recreation Commission is? Cy Childs: Really the politics involved, I have no idea. My common sense just says you're concerned with the public areas of recreation. I have no idea where those are in this community except for those ones that I've visited. I assume that you're concerned with keeping those properties up and possibly obtaining funds to improve what you have. Schroers: Very good. Erhart: What are your feelings regarding conservation and environment and passive parks versus active parks? Passive parks being where yoU'go and. Cy Childs: What the birds and what not? ..."" Erhart: Right, exactly. Cy Childs: I can't believe that anybody would say they're into gas fumes or...so conservation, that seems like that's pretty natural to say that. . ..natural resource, that's a good thing to do. As far as the balance between how much of public space should be available for climbing on slides and running around and other areas for watching birds...relaxing, I think you'd have to take a look at the demographics of the people that were living in the area. I think if there's a lot of kids, then you want something that's hopping. I think any community has to have to have areas for adults to relax and gather their thoughts. ...Arboretum...but that kind of a concept. My focus right now is on my son and where we expect to be in this community for a while so I'm more interested in what. ..he can be "entertained. But my wife and I still like to take a walk now and then. So again, getting back to the demographics thirig, if there's a lot more young people with kids I think...I think that's the way it's going to be. It seems like this is a young...30 or 40, that age group with a lot of kids. Lash: Can you elaborate on why you wish to serve on the Park Commission? Cy childs: It's just the concept of being part of the community. Just that simple. I have no idea how many commissions are involved with the city but as soon as we moved in I said I want to do something here. I don't know what it is... I first signed up for the public safety... It really doesn't matter. So I signed up for that but I was late. The parks appeals to me. Public safety, I'm not that, it's not that big of a thing foY me but the parks I do use. I mean I'm going to be playing ball here for a long time, I hope so and be watching my son around here. Taking him ..."" """" Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 19 to some of the public areas so it's a little bit... Something that I can see that's affecting me too. Not just people.. .just a public service. It's just the time in my life. Just that simple. Andrews: I have to ask the question of where's Del Rio Orive? .. .that's what I thought. Schroers: We're drawing from the nucleous aren't we? Andrews: We do as a commission are charged with trying to select applicants that...represent the whole community. That's not the most important thing but it's a factor... Schroers: Yeah, we're pretty close but I guess that's appropriate that people from the heart of the city are the ones that feel that they have the most to contribute or feel more involvement or need for involvement. That's pretty high criteria. I mean you've got to want to do it and obviously you do or you wouldn't be here. That concludes the questions. They weren't too hard. We'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have at this time. Cy Childs: No. I know so little that it wouldn't, you know. ,..... Schroers: Okay Cyrus it was very nice to meet you. Thank you for coming up and taking the time and the effort and the City will be letting you know as to the outcome. Cy Childs: Very good. Thank you. RANDY ERICKSON Schroers: What we're doing here is we have some criteria that we use to develop some questions. We have 5 questions that we're going to ask you. We ask all the applicants the same 5 questions in order to make things as far and as equitable as possible. We attach a numerical score to your answers and at the end of the interview, at the end of all the interviews we will tally the scores and there are two positions currently available so the applicants with the two highest scores will be recommended to the City Council for appointment. Randy Erickson: Okay, sounds fair to me. Schroers: That's basically all there is to it. We do understand that you as well as ~ost of the other applicants tonight have not lived in Chanhassen for a long time so some of the questions may be a little bit difficult from that perspective but we understand that so it's nothing to be too concerned about and this is very informal so we'd like you to be comfortable. Curt starts. Did you have the last question Wendy? Lash: I did. ,..... Schroers: Oh, I'm a little ahead of myself. Pemrick: First, do you feel that you have the time to make a commitment? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 20 ....., Randy Erickson: Yes. First I a week? Or month, excuse me. night a month, I have plenty of research or a lot of research. have a question for you. It meets one night One night a month. For a couple hours one time. I understand there will be some I'm not too sure how much research that is. Pemr ick: Well, pr ior to the meeti ng you'll get a packet and it involves... Randy Erickson: So there's not a lot of outside research? Extensive outside research? Pemrick: ...research is kind of a group thing where we go visit a site and that kind of stuff. And then it's also...4th of July... Randy Er ickson: I did this year. I was there. That sounds li ke the ki nd of thing that would fall right in line with my present time commitments. I'm married but I have no children yet, so I'm not running off to away games of soccer and anything like that. In fact that sounds well within... I do travel occasionally with my job which would put me out of town but I think that can be arranged far enough in advance. I kind of control my own schedule. I mean that's helpful that ii's the fourth Tuesday of every month. Because I basically do my own schedule 99% of the time... Robinson: What's your impression of the current park and rec system and what do you feel you can add to.. .expertise or knowledge? ...", Randy Erickson: I don't have a lot of knowledge of the whole park str0cture. My knowledge has been, as you may already know from looking at my application, I've only been here since June. The only thing I've really noticed is what I've seen in the parks. We don'~ live far from Lake Ann and I've been to the Lake Minnewashta Regional Park there and I really like the parks that I've seen. They look well planned out. That's what's impressed me about Chanhassen is everything seems to be well planned out. That just requires a lot of foresight. What I could bring to that I'm not really sure...on the Park Commission before but I consider myself a pretty objective person. Pretty fair person and pragmatic...so I just hope I can bring a little bit of vision... \ Andrews: What do you feel is the role of the Park and Rec Commission? Randy Erickson: That I'm not really technically sure what the role is. But I think just to give guidance to the City Council to see to it that the parks are kept up. That the parks meet the community's needs. The parks and the events I think you also have a lot of input. The 4th of July celebration... The people in the community are enjoying what they're paying for and it does need to be kept up. I've been to a lot of parks in my travels and some of them you go in and you won't use the. ..house and those kinds of things. I've been very impressed with Chanhassen's parks a nd I keep... Schroers: What are your feelings regarding conservation and the envirnoment and passive parks versus active parks? Passive parks are what L~e consider to be nature areas and just open areas. Green space and that sort of thing. And active parks are parks withballfields, tennis courts, that sort of thing. ......". '" Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 21 Randy Erickson: As far as my views on conservation. My education is in biology. I'm a biology major and I think that point of view, because of all the classes you have to take, it brings you a realization that resources are finite. We study ecology and those kinds of things so I think conservation is very important. Exactly the difference between the passive and the active pal-ks, I love the, the active parks and the ballfields and those kinds of things because I like to play sports. I like softball. I'm not presently on a team or anything but I'd like to get into that and the beach, taking my family to the beach... but then I've also been to, is it Minnewashta Park. Schroers: The regional park. Randy Erickson: The regional park over there and maybe just because no one else was thete but that seemed to be a little bit more the natural environment. The open spaces and the fields and the prairie grasses and that stuff and I like that kind of thing too. I think that's very important. Not everybody wants to play hOTseshoes or goes to play volleyball. Some people just need some space and some trees... . Schroers: Okay, good. ,-. Erhart: Then Randy, if you would just elaborate why you wish to serve on the Park and Rec Commission. Randy Erickson: Honestly, the first reason above all that I wanted to serve on it was to get involved in the community. I've waited a long time to be an adult member of a community. I grew up in a-nice town and have been through college and that kind of stuff. Traveled and not been. ..and this is where my wife and I plan t.o st.ay for several years and I'd like to be active in t.he communit.y. I was act.ive in student government in college and I know that in a small environment, in a small town and even in a small school you can make changes. You can help things improve together wit.h ot.her people and t.hat's really what. my main reason is. The fact t.hat. it. was the park commission, the lit.t.le ad I saw in the paper I thought. would just. be a bonus because if you're doing somet.hing you like and somet.hing you're int.erested in...everybody wants parks. I do too. I spend a fair amount of time in t.hem so T t.hink I can bring some object.ivity and creativity and vision to the park commission. Schroers: Very good, Randy. Andrews: Can I ask my last question? Where is Canyon Curve? Randy Erickson: We are over in Saddlebrook. Andrews: Okay, cent.ral Chanhassen. Randy Erickson: Yeah, right. over in Saddlebrook. "'" Schroers: Randy, you've made it. t.hrough the process here. All of the quest.ions are complet.e. You did a real good job and we'll give you the opportunity to ask us a couple of questions if you have any. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 22 ~ Randy Erickson: I guess I can't think of any off the top of my head. The main question I had wa~ your role. Basically I assume that's advice to the City Council on decisions made that affect the parks. Robinson: I think you answered that one perfectly. Randy Erickson: I served on enough commissions and boards in college to realize you really don't know what goes on until you sit down there and feel the pressure that...you have to mak~ decisions. That's.. .there for. Schroers: We look at all aspects bf the parks and trail systems within the city. Existing and PToposed and we 'study it and research it and make our recommendations to the City Council for approval and generally that's just a formality. They confide in our ability most of the time. It's rare th~t they don't go along with our recommendation. That's basically what we do. ,I'd like to thank you very much for your time and interest in coming here tonight and the City will let you know as to the outcome. Randy Erickson: Well thank you. I appreciate the fact that you've been interviewing everybody here. And my buddy Bruce who was in here too. Schroers: Okay, thanks a lot. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) -' Schroers: Okay, we're on item 2 of the agerida. The Park and Recreation Commission applicant interviews. The interviews have been completed and we are now looking for a motion to recommend to the City Council our selection for the two new commission members who are. Let me get the names here. Fred Berg and Randy Erickson. Do I have a motion? Erhart: I'll second that. Oh no, I'll make a motion that we ask Council to approve or appoint Randy Erickson and Fred Berg to the Park and Rec Commission. Schroers: Is there a second? Robinson: I'll second it. Erhart moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend, to appoint Randy Erickson and Fred Berg to the Park and Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried. UPDATE 5 YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. COMMUNITY PARKS (CON'T). Schroers: Okay, so we are done with item 1, 2 and 3. We were in the middle of item 4, the update on the Capital Improvement Program. Andrews: We were at City Center Park was where we left off. Schroers: So we will continue. Were we completed with Chan Pond? Ruegemer: I believe so. ....,,' JII"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 23 Schroers: Okay. City Center. Andrews: Do we know yet at all this new supposed proposed city center? Ruegemer: Yeah. The proposed park? ~)ndrews: Yeah. ,Ruegemer: That's still up for public discussion and then public hearings. I don't know when the next one is but that still hasn't been decided yet. Funding will go before the HRA. Andrews: That impacts the rest of this development too so. Ruegemer: Right. Lash: It's kind of frustrating. Everyone we have we can't do anything "Ji th. Ruegemer: Contingent on other decisions. r Schroers: Yeah, you know maybe rather than spending our time with this issue here this evening when we can't really do anything with it, is maybe what we should do is table this to a future meeting when we can have the concept plans of the park available and current budgeting and funding capabilities and a copy of what we proposed on our last capital improvement plan so we can remain consistent and try to proceed on course. If that information isn't available to us tonight, I think we're just spinning our wheels looking into these things when we can't do anything ~bout it. Andrews: I'll make the motion that I agree completely. That we should table this and have this brought forward at hopefully the next meeting. If we can have an easel out like we've had with other major developments where we could see it, I think we could get through this a lot faster. So I move that we table this item until the next meeting and have more information available so we can make informed decisions. Schroers: I'll second it. Andrews moved, schroers seconded to table the 5 year Capital Improvement Program for the Community Parks until the next Park and Recreation Commission meeting so staff can provide more information. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Schroers: For future reference. Andrews: It's for next meeting is what the motion says so. Schroers: Next ,meeting. II""- PARK AND TRAIL FEE REVENUE REPORT. Ruegemer: Okay all the information, Lake Ann and Lake Susan? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 24 .....". Schroers: Yeah, I think we want them all at once. Ruegemer: As of October 31, 1991, 83.33% of the year has expired. $73,824.00 park fees and $26,192.00 in trail fees have been collected. Other revenues in this fund include $27,212.24 in interest. $2,000.00 in donations and the $11,333.00 in insurance recovery. The insurance recovery was from the Lake Ann light standards that was destroyed by vandalism last September of 1990. Revenue totals equals $139,894.24. That is 61%,61.30% of the $228,000.00 budgeted. Robinson: Excuse me Jerry. I don't understand the second sentence. These figures represent 67% and 52% of the budgeted expenditures. Ruegemer: Where we're at right now is what is actually come in and what was actually budgeted for that. The revenue totals are at 61%, or roughly 61% of the $228,000.00 that was budgeted in the year 1991. Robinson: Way up, the second sentence. Where you talk about the fees coll.cted and then these figures represent percent of the budgeted expenditures. You're first talking fees or revenue and then that says it represents x percent of expenditures. Budgeted expenditures. Andrews: It should say revenues. Robinson: Should it? I would think so. In other words you budgeted to .....". collect. Lash: But they have expected to collect a certain amount by that period. Is it by that period in time or for the whole year? Robinson: The word expenditures. Lash: But then that's a certain percentage of what we have to date used. Is that what that's saying? That's how I understood it. Andrews: Yes, you're correct. Ruegemer: Right. I think it's 67.11% of the park fees and 52% of the. Lash: So we're operating in the red is what it's saying? We've collected 67% of what we've. Andrews: Of what we plan to spend. Lash: That's where I have a problem understanding how we can do that. Erhart: How can we spend more than we have you meaD? Lash: Right. Robinson: Talk tO,my wife. Erhart: Talk to my husband. ..."" ,.,.., Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 25 Ruegemer: So I think that's what Todd...in the event of a budget shorfall in the 410, the most likely scenario that the general ledger will carry the defi ci t . . . Lash: So then does that corne out of our '92 budget OT where does that corne from? Andrews: Yeah, we'd have to make a budget allo\~ance in our 1992 budget to cover the shortfall. We had to do the same thing last year for a small amou nt . Erhart: Thank goodness it's a small amount. Andrews: Well this year it isn't a small amount. Ruegemer: If you turn around to the back, that might explain it a little bit better. The budg'eted revenue for 1991 vJas budgeted at $228,000.00 and the budgeted expenditures is $199,250.00. That is budgeted expenditures to date is $202,262.75. That does include the insurance. The difference as of October 31, 1991 is a deficit of $42,868.73. Lash: So we have to take $42,000.00, almost $43,000.00 out of next year's ,.... budget? Ruegemer: That's just as of October 31st so there still will be revenue coming in. Andrews: That's 30% off. Lash: So even if we didn't spend any more money for the rest of the year, whatever we get in, we could still have, easily have a $30,000.00 defi6it. Robinson: But it says expenditures incurred in the month of November and December will bring the expenditures close to the budgeted amount. Andrews: For expenditures right? Reugemer: For expenditures. Not budgeted revenue. Robinson: Oh yeah, sorry. Erhart: We're spending what we thought we would. We're just not collecting what we budgeted. Schroers: But we may collect more before the end of the year so we may in fact lessen this deficit or depending on how much we collect, we may even come out in the black. But we're not going to know until the end of the year. ,.... Lash: I can't imagine November and December we'll be collecting a lot. Robinson: Not this November and December. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 26 ...,," Andrews: The point is though, there's very little we could cut between now and the end of the year. It's all pretty much done. But this does put us in a heck of a lot of hurt for next year's budget if we have to allow for a $40,000.00 shortfall to start the year out. That wipes out half our bud~et right off the block. Or a third of the budget will b~ eliminated before we even start. I'm glad we were cohs~rvative but apparently we weren't enough. Schroers: Our only recourse there was to present the information to the Council and ask them to help us make up the deficit for our new budget. Andrews: We do have some reserves that were created for this type of ocurrence too. Lash: I can't imagine that they'll be too sympathetic with our plight here because they're right now doing public hearings on,next year's budget and having public hearings on that. People are up in arms and they're taking a position of not raising city taxes. Andrews: I would expect any money from City Council at all. Lash: So what happens to this? Schroers: What happens is what's happening to the rest of the system. of right now I have about 12 hours of meeting time in today so far and program is the same everywhere you look. You're going ,to be short and you're going to bite the bullet. You're not going to be able to do everything that you think you want to do and that is the bottom line. As the ...", Lash: It just comes out of next year then. Robinson: Yeah. Andrews: That's what it says too. Schro.rs: We're lOOking at letting go of permanent employees. I mean not just through attrition, which we've tried to do in the past but they are now looking at layoffs so the situation is pretty bleak for the near foreseeable future in government funding and we're going to, I'm sure that we're going to feel it along with every other agency. Andrews: I guess I feel I'd like to see if we could at least direct the staff to defer any expenses possible between now and the end of the year. Schroers: We've done some of that ourselves through the commission already and I think they will continue to. Lash: I can't imagine that there's a lot of things going on that ,we'~be spending a lot of money on. I mean we're not ordering things that I kn6w of at this time. Schroers: Well and other big budgeted things such as the shelter at Lake Ann and that sort of thing are ~ind of on hold so, although the money's already spoken for, it's not going out. .."", ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 27 Lash: I can see where maybe some of the things that we had anticipated putting in there. Andrews: We've got budgeted expenditures that haven't been paid yet. I'm sure like some of the grading projects and so forth, that there are notes on it here that the money will not be released until it's inspected. That may not happen until spring but it's not budgeted but not expended. That's already shows her~. 5chroers: Here's what we have to look at. What we have to look at doing in the event of this and I think that you'll agree that it's logical and it makes sense. What we have to do is channel the funding that we have in the direction to complete things that are already started and as far as jumping into new endeavors with funding is questionable. Those have to be put on hold. But what we don't want to do is have one thing half completed and then start on something else and then end up in a situation where we have two things st~rted and not enough funding to complete it either. Erhart: A bunch of half finished products. 5chroers: Yeah. We've, got to tie up our ends and put our new things that ~>Je'd like t.o do, our new development and that sort of thing on hold until .~ such time as they're feasible. Andrews: Another comment too, I guess I feel since this crisis is quite acute, I'd like to see these repol-ts each meeting. This situation is pretty severe and it will allow us to take action quicker and to be more informed as to what our position is. Lash: Or at least quarterly. 5chroers: I think I'm lacking in that area and I don't know how the rest of you feel but if someone were to ask me, what is the current status of the Park and Recreation Commission budget, my honest answer would be I don't know. So I f~el that is something that should be included and something that we should be aware of. I agree with them whole heartedly. Lash: It isn't anything that we can't control the money corning in. I mean it's just pyojections. " .but we have to then, when we see, we have to review this often enough so if we see that the projected revenue is falling way off. I mean the actual revenue is falling way off from our projections, then we've got to be on top of that enough to make some alterations in our expenditures so at the end of the year we don't have a big deficit like this. That's just not a good way to operate. Andrews: Like most churches have budgeted expenses that they budget revenues to date and then just show you on a monthly basis where you stand. Even if it was just a paragraph put in each month of where we stand, that would be very, very helpful. ~ Schroers: To put it in perspective of how' bad the thing is, our accountant is bailing out of the program. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 28 --' Lash: . ..say in the By-laws that the retiring commissioners are required to make up any deficits incurred... Robinson: I think it would also, did we determine that budgeted revenue, $228,000.00? How did that number? Ruegemer: I'm sure it's on a Commission level that they decide or try to project as close to as possible with the projected building permits. Robinson: I think if we could see where we are every month or quarterly or something it would help to set that amount for the coming year also. Lash: Well I'm guessing, I'm just guessing that the budgeted revenue are figures that come possibly from Don Ashworth based on developments that he knows that are on line and past patterns and what the developers have done it fast or slow so I think the projected revenues are just basically educated guesses for us to work with to start with and we have no control over that. what we have to do is keep on top of what's coming in before we get hit with $43,000.00. Schroers: That's exactly right. This agenda item if I'm correct doesn't require any action on our part. It's just information for us and our response to this item is to request staff to update us on a more frequent time frame as to where we are sitting with our budget and I think that we have enough confidence in staff's competence to decide how often they feel ~ that they will n~ed to update us on that. Andrews: Curt, it is awful suspicious that this crisis came up right when you're leaving. Robinson: You're going to say yeah, when we're gone Erhart and Robinson got us into this. Lash: That's a political answer. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Andrews: My only question is when do you expect to see rink flooding try to get going? Ruegemer: We'ye actually in a lot better shape heavy snowfall it kind of insulated ~verything. it's saturated the ground. If we get some cold real nice and we'll have a good base. now than we were. With the But now that it's melted weather it will freeze up Pemrick: It filled itself. Ruegemer: Well to a certain degree I guess. Typically we like to get things going about the second or third week in December so roughly projected dat'e would be about the 15th or 20th of December. Andrews: I've got the kids asking me so. -' Ruegemer: Oh, is that right? ",..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 29 Schroers: I just have an item of interest. Today was my first opportunity ever to see the new community center in Chaska. I was in it all day long and I was just totally impressed and I think what we need to do is somehow encourage the residents of Chanhassen to get over and see that facility so they become completedly Jealous and enviable the next time something like that comes up on a referendum we can have one here because the place is great. Ruegemer: Maybe we can get a shuttle going down there to Chaska. Meet at City Hall that will start taking people down there. Schroers: I think also birds of a feather should flock together and we should make real good friends with the Park and Rec Commission from the City of Chaska and see if we can't get some honorary memberships for Commission members. Robinson: Hennepin County Parks Commission meets in a facility in Carver County? Schroers: Yeah we did. This was, we took advantage of the, Hennepin Parks is a very opportunistic organization. ~ Andrews: Another word for cheap? Schroers: No, another word for smart. I've got to give them credit. We took advantage of the MRPA, Minnesota Recreation and Park Association 'convention and since several noted speakers of the field were in town, we cashed in one to address our specific issues with Hennepin Parks and because of other ongoing scheduled events, all of the facilities that we have that were of a size that would accommodate the entire, basically all the full time employees were there for the morning and just the management for the afternoon but we needed a space bigger than we have and the community center was open in Chaska so that's why we ended up there. And we listened to a lady named Beth Black of Disney World in Florida and she was impressive. She had her ducks in a row. Terribly intelligent~ I'm glad I'm not married to her. I could never argue with her. She was a real speaker you know. You'd be in a tough situation if you had to argue with het because she really had her facts together. I ~as real impressed. Ruegemer: Are there any more commissioner presentations? Robinson: No, that's enough. Lash: The teen night out. I heard good comments about that. As a matter of fact, I heard that there were kids that li ked that better 'than the next l~eek was a school party so there was a little competition but that was one thing that maybe what we needed to do was look at when the school parties are so they're spaced a little bit farther apart. Ruegemer: We did. It's so hard now getting into the winter months. We ~ have to schedule around the basketball. A lot of kids that go around the basketball and some of the other. We try not to compete but you certainly don't I'Jant to create any ill feelings between the two groups. The district and special events. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 30 -" Lash: But there's another teen night out coming up. Ruegemer: December 6th. Lash: Yeah and then there's another school party so it's like two parties. They'll get burnt out on parties. Ruegemer: We have the good ones though. Yeah I think the kids really enjoy having the music from KDWB. Next time we have Air Jordan coming here. Not the basketball player. The Dj from KDWB so he'll be there. Pepsi sponsors this next one so it doesn't cost us anything. Or Chaska anything. So Pepsi picks up the music. The contract for the music. They hand out Pepsi sun glasses. Pepsi shirts. Frisbees. Duffle bags. Corn nuts. Anything. They hand out a lot of things. And it's all up by Pepsi because they're trying to promote their product and give to the community. That type of deal. So it's really a good program we've had a lot of success from it. did out And picked back and Pemrick: What's the age group? Ruegemer: 6th, 7th and 8th grade. We didn't have any problem with that. We thought we'd have a lot of high school kids trying to get in causing problems. We didn't have any problems with that at all. Lash: They wouldn't be caught dead there with 6th, 7th and 8th graders. -' Ruegemer: We had a good turn out though. We only projected about 100-150 and I think we had close to 400. So we had very, very good turn out. Lash: So where did you get the chaperones? Ruegemer: We used, maybe I'll tell you the groups. Chanhassen Park and Rec, Chaska Park and Rec and Community Education all co-sponsored. We pooled our resources and we kind of took an area to pursue the planning for the party. Community Ed _is the one who got the volunteers and th~y sent out their, kind of their pre-school questionnaire to all the different parents in the dist.ict and one of the questions was, would you be willing to help out in some form or fashion in any type of activity after school. So ~hey had pretty much their homework done. It was just a matter of making a few phone calls. Parents were more than happy to volunteer so it really worked out really nice. We just kind of strategically placed people where we thought the~'d need the most supe.vision. Lash: I thought had a dance contests... and that was fun. Ruegemer: And the DJ's were very audience pa.ticipation. Trying to get everybody involved. Everybody was dancing. I thought that age g.oup there'd be a lot of wall flowers but there really wasn't. Lash: t think if you do those kinds of things, it pulls them out whe.e maybe they would tend not to get involved. Ruegeme.: Prize give aways were ~ plus. We had Dominoes coupons and shirts and community center water bottles and we gave away a boombox. A """'" ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 31 nice boombox. Cassette tapes. They really enjoyed it. Lash: Are you setting up some skiing for this winter too? Ruegemer: February. You bet. We've got it planned. Three trips this year. We're going in January and Lash: Are you going to Hyland at all? Ruegemer: No. Lash: Didn't you say you would help plan something to Hyland? Andrews: That's easy. If you've 'already got it all set, it's all set. Ruegemer: Typically the kids kind of like to get away from Hyland. Andrews: It's a small hill. Ruegemer: They think it's not cool. They've got to go Afton. We're going to go to Afton, Wild Mountain and Trollhaugen this year. Kind of get away from the area a little bit. I think that's what they like. ,... ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: HALLOWEEN PARTY REPORT. Ruegemer: The annual Halloween party we kind of had an unexpected snow storm that prevented a few people from showing up but for the most part we had a very good turn out considering the weather predictament. We had roughly, pretty much 285 kids and parents sign up before that pre-registered so that was a very good turn out. About 40 did turn up that night which wasn't a problem because we did have other people come off the street and we were willing to allow them to enter st that point. We had very good contributions from local businesses as far as cash donations. The Dinner Theatre gave away tickets again this year. The bowling alley gave free bOllJl i ng coupons for games of bowl ing. Subway donated si x 6 inch subway sandwiches to be given away at drawings so that really added a lot of the atmosphere of people coming in and were able to drop or sign up for prizes which was, it was a really good deal. It's the first time we had it this year and I think kids really enjoyed it. Parents enjoyed it the Dinner Theatre tickets. So that itself was a big hit. There seemed to be a little bit of confusion about what hallway to go down and we can certainly, we're going to create a better situation for next year. We're just going to, this year and in previous years they had to decide which hallway they wanted to go down. Make a choice. What we're going to do next year is . just buy enough candy to allow kids to go down both hallways and once they're there, they enjoy going down both hallways and we're just going to alleviate that problem and have enough supplies to go down both hallways to satisfy. They do pay a nominal fee but just to once they get there they ~ have a good time. So it's going to allow them to do that for next year. We're going to clean up the registration process a little bit for next year. Last year we had a lot of, or this year we had a lot of people come in late as far as coming in after the registration was closed. It's an Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 19, 1991 - Page 32 ..., unfortunate situation. It's not the kids fault and you kind of have to take a look at that and try to correct that problem too so what we're going to do is have registration open a day later for next year to help get a lot of the late people that come in. There's a lot of people that don't think of it until they're up upon the date of the party. So what we're going to do this year, well I tried to stick to my guns and if you don't pre-register you don't go and that really didn't help out the kids at sll and I kind of felt bad about that so what we're going to do next year is not advertise for it but we are going to take pre-registration. That's what I would like the majority of the people to do but also we will take registrations at the door. There's a lot of people that I talked to said we've never pre-registered. We've always paid at the door in the past and I did get flyers out to the schooTs and advertise in the paper and things like that so I'm going to try to get the bulk of the registration and we can kind of predict how many supplies. How many candy bars we need: Cookes. That type of deal... (A tape change occurred at this point in the meeting.) Robinson: Now are we going to meet on Tuesday night the 24th? Lash: The 10th. But I thought Todd said or maybe it was you Jerry said we wanted to just try and have a light agenda. Ruegemer: Have a Christmas party? _"i Lash: Yeah. Erhart: Just one thing real quick before we close. If you people in the future need any help, I'm still willing to participate on the 4th or July okay? Or any of those other events. Just because I'm not on the Commission doesn't mean I'm not willing to help. Robinson moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim ....",