PRC 1991 11 19
"'"
CHANHASSEN PARK ANb RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 19, 1991
Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order 7:33 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Larry Schroers, Wendy Pemrick~ Dawn Erhart, Jim Andrews,
Jan Lash and Curt Robinson
MEMBERS ABSENT: Dave Koubsky
STAFF PRESENT: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
ESTABLISH 1992 PARK AND TRAIL DEDICATION FEES.
Schroers: We are going to postpone items 1 and 2 on the agenda and come
back to them at the appropriate time and we'll begin with item 3 which is
to establish the 1992 Park and Trail Dedlcation fees. Take it away Jerry.
Ruegemer: We'll start out with the memo from Todd. City Code requires
that Park and Trail dedication requirements be established by resolution of
the City Council on an annual basis. The intention of the City Council is
to develop and implement a park open space acquisition and develop policies
to protect the public interest and welfare of the community relative to
parks, open space and recreation. The land acqui~ed or cash paid in lieu
of land dedication is indisposable in insuring that this and other goals
."...... t.owards preserving the quality of life in Chanhassen are realized. The
basic premise is that 10% of land being developed or the cash equivalent of
that 10% of property be dedicated or paid in fees. The City of chanhassen,
as many other communities, has established a benchmark of maintaining 1
acre of active park space. Active specifies land which is appropriated for
play or activity for each 75 residents in neighborhood areas. The
following formulas are used in calculating the fees from which the
recommendation for establishment of the 1992 fee schedule is based. If you
go to the back page, we'll just go through. A survey of land cost in
residential, industrial and commercial areas of Chanhassen and Chaska show
that the average land cost for unimproved property have not decreased or
increased significantly and remain on average. Those go up through the
commercial and industrial is a $2,500.00 per acre. Residential by the
formula is $467.00 per home. Multi-family per Todd's examples is $427.00
per unit. That's based on the formulas that Todd has calculated.
Schroers: We need td make a correction Jerry on the'industrial/commercial.
You said $2,500.00 and it's $25,000.00.
Ruegemer: Per acre?
Schroers: Yeah.
Ruegemer: $25,000.00 per acre?
Andrews: It's a development cost.
".....
Schroe.s:
mistake.
That's what it says here.
Okay. $2,500.00 per acre.
Oh, I see where you are.
That's my
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 2
-'"
Ruegemer: Okay. With the land values and population data rema~n~ng
essentially constant, it is recommended that the Park and Recreation
Commission recommend that the City Council establish the 1992 park and
trail fees by resolution at the 1991 rates. Residential single family,
duplex units $500.00 per unit. Multi-family units, $440.00 per unit.
Commercial and industrial, $2,500.00 per unit and trail dedication fees is
one-third of park dedication fees. If you take a look at the attachments.
It just goes through the different cities in the m'etro area and what their
trail fees are per unit with the wide variety of prices going from $868.00
in Plymouth to $389.00 in Coon Rapids. Also there are multi-family with
the same types of cities in the metro. Also with the commercial and
industrial land. Also for your viewing, there's also the selected
population housing characteristics of Chanhassen from the census from 1990.
Is there any comments or questions from the Commission?
Schroers: We'll open it up to commission member comments or suggestions.
Does anyone have anything specific?
Andrews: I think we ought to adopt staff recommendation and leave our
system in place. Not changed as is.
Schroers: I feel that it's obvious that staff has put considerably amount
of effort into this and are more knowledgeable on this than we as a
commission are and I would agree with Jim to concur but what I'm noticing
here is that we are slightly below average. If you take the low at $389.00 ...."
and the high at $860.00.. If we were to average the two I think that we
would fall just slightly short and that may be something we want to
consider for 1993. But if we are in agreement to accept the '91, then
we're ready to entertain a motion.
Andrews: I move that we accept staff recommendation and leave our fees
unchanged from 1991.
Pemrick: I'll second.
Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend to establish the 1992 park and trail fees by resolution at the
1991 rates of:
Residential Single Family/Duplex Units
Multi-Family Units
Commercial/Industrial
Trail Dedication Fees
$500.QO/unit
$440.00/unit
$2,500.00/ acre
1/3 Park Dedication Fees
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Schroers: I'm just going to update Jan briefly on where we're at. Because
we're not all here and because Wendy and me were abs.nt at the last
meeting, we can't, we have to abstain from to accept the Minutes so we
don't have a quorum. Therefore we decided to skip down to item 3 because
we're not ready to deal with item 2. So with item 3 out of the way we're
~oing on to item 4.
-'
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 3
UPDATE 5 YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. COMMUNITY PARKS.
Ruegemer: Item 4. Update 5 year capital improvement program for community
parks. To continue working on updating the park acquisition and
development 5 year capital improvement program the following information
has been prepared for the city's seven community parks. Since community
parks are typically larger and fulfill needs not met by neighborhood parks,
a different approach to their development is typically been utilized by the
city. As such the city has in the past made use of grant programs
available at the State and Federal level. Numbero~s grants for land
acquisition and development have been utilized for Lake Ann Park, Lake
Susan Park and the South Lotus Lake Boat Access. This office is currently
preparing to submit a preliminary application to the Minnesota Department
of Trade and Economic Development for financial assistance for the
development of Bandimere Community Park in the year 1993. I would
anticipate discussion on this item will parallel discussion on neighborhood
parks with the exception of being less defined in terms of available
funding. At that, if we take a look to our second page we have a work
book. Each community park is in order of alphabetized here and we'll start
out with Bandimere Community Park and we'll go through Bluff Creek, Chan
Pond Park, City Center Park, Lake Ann Park, Lake Susan Park and South Lotus
Lake Park. With that we can start the discussion starting with Bandimere
~ Community Park for the 5 year capital improvement program.
Pemrick: I have a question on the last part of that. The second paragraph
on the first page about currently preparing to submit a preliminary
application. That's just to apply in 1993? It's not to begin the actual
development.
Ruegemer: No. What this grant is, there's several different grants that
you can apply for. But with this it's specific to recreation or community
development. What it is, it is set up by the Minnesota Trade and Economic
Development program. What you have to do then is, it goes on a, like the
Lake Susan project was grant money. Now from that there's a 2 year cycle
where you cannot apply for that same type of recreation grant. So then we
would be available again, actually it would have been this year to get
matching funds in any type of community project going on but now we're
going to be applying now for 1993 for any of the money the City puts up. If
we do receive that grant, they will match that. The grant so that's what
Todd means by getting going on this development process and this
application process. Typi~ally the grants and the applications are due in,
is it the early summer to mid-summer for the following year so we just
missed the deadline for this year. But we'll be continuing on.. We'll do
the preliminary grant application next spring and we'll conclude then in
mid-summer and we'll hear something back. We'll be going through that
process and I will keep you updated on that process, of that application
process.
Lash: How long does that take?
~. Ruegemer: To go through the application process? Typically it goes, you
apply for the grants in summer. Typically you hear something in late
September. They'11 award, they like to get everybody together and go
through the different, how the grant was developed and how you're going to
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 4
..",
be using the money. Kind of screen people just to make'sure that what they
applied for is actually the project that they're going to complete. So
they will go through that and that's about in December is when they do
that. Then in February they'll get everybody together again for like a
final orientation so to speak just to get everyone familiar with the grant
and how it wor-ks. So it's a fairly lengthy process but it's well worth it
if you can get some matching grants.
Andrews: Do we have a master plan of any type of Bandimere?
Schroers: It says a concept master plan was prepared in 1989 and that was
at a cost of $1,500.00 and I guess for us to go ahead with this work
program here, it would be really helpful to have that master park plan to
lodk at. Currently as it exists, there's absolutely nothing in Bandimere
Community Park. What we're going to need to do is prioritize what we would
like to see done first and I'm not sure if the concept master plan has
phases of construction outlined on it or not.
Pemrick: There were also two plans. A plan A and a Plan B depending on
the pipeline. That ~ould be accommodated. Has that been established
whether the pipeline's going to, to sway it to A or to B. There was
supposed to be some communication with William's Pipeline.
Lash: We haven't heard anything back on that.
...",#
Schroers: I think what I heard was the pipeline was buried to a point that
it should not interfere with any of our construction plans.
Erhart: Even with the grading Larry?
Schroers: Yes.
Erhart: Because they have to go kind of.
Lash: Actually what I thought the problem was with the grading and the
landscaping that we needed to do, was in some areas it would end up being
too deep and it needs to be...inaccessible in case they need to get at it.
Erhart: That's what I remember hearing too.
Schroers: I guess I don't know specifically where we're at with that. I
seem to recall something about the depth of the pipeline was checked and
that it shouldn't interfere with our development plans but I can't, I don't
have anything substantial to verify that.
Lash:
all see
the one
quite a
We maybe need to check into and also look back into, maybe we should
because I remember back when we discussed that, it was Sue Boyt was
that bro~ght up communicating with William's Pipeline sO it's been
while.
Erhart:
I also thought they weren't getting back to the City.
Lash: But I think maybe we need to see both plans again and let this
Commission decide again which one they think because we've got a lot of new
.."",
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 5
people.
Andrews: Obviously if we're talking about submitting for a grant, I think
we ought to have some concept about what it is we're working towards and
what the timeline is that we're working with.
Lash: The facilities I think were pretty much the same from A to B. It
was just the layout and that was affected by the pipeline wasn't it?
Andrews: We definitely have to have reliable information regarding this
pipeline. And if that means we need to recontact Williams and either get
somebody from the company here or respond to a direct question. What is
it?
Erhart: I'm sure Todd can answer that.
Andrews: Well we need to have that I think so I'd like to see us defer on
Bandimere until we get that information.
"'"
Schroers: Okay. The only information that we have is for rough grading in
1992. There's a cost estimate of $10,000.00 and for general improvements,
$300,000.00 for a total of $310,000.00. Without specific information here
to guide us, I would agree that I don't think we can pursue anything here
that would have any credibility. So let's go over Bandimereand I think
the same is true foY" Bluff Creek. We don't have information on Bluff
Creek. We don't a concept plan I don't believe for Bluff Creek. We have
trail improvements for $15,000. Road access for $10,000.00 and land
acquisition for $50,000.00 for a total of $75,000.00. That's from 1992 and
on into the future and again, we don't have any criteria to base any
meaningful discussion on it.
Andrews: When was that land acquired?
Schroers: I don't know that it's all been acquired. There's $50,000.00
plugged into 1992 and beyond for acquisition.
Andrews: I mean is this park currently city property or is this a planned
park that we hope to make it city property?
Schroers: Planned.
Andrews: Okay. That's what I t.hought. I just thought, gee I didn't know
we already owned this thing.
Schroers: Right now it's referred to as the Bluff Creek Watershed.
Lash: There was talk, when we toured that last spring and there were
Council members there and there was talk about the golf course and the
hopes that maybe the City would look into acquiring that plus the property.
I've never heard anything back on that.
,......
Andrews: The economic climate is not going to allow that. At least for
the next few years.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 6
....."
Lash: The City?
Schroers: Okay, so in regards to Bluff Creek, we're also going to put that
OD hold pending further relativ~ information that will enable us to
actively pursue something credible in regards to Bluff Cree~ Park. Okay.
We can move on to Chanhassen Pond Park. Now we're getting somewhere. We
do have on street parking. We have trails, bituminous and turf and we have
one park sign. Can't imagine that we need anything else. Our intent with
Chanhassen Pond Park was to have that basically a passive use park.
Primarily natural area with a walking, hiking type trail around the pond
that was going to be either turf or an aggregate trail and I believe the
turf trail has been mowed. It basically hasn't had any grading of any
kind. It's just been rough mowed so people could walk around the lake
without having to fight their way through the vegetation. But there's been
no grading done on the trail. There was also talk of putting a couple of
picnic tables in so people could sit and relax and a wooden type
observation bench that would overlook the pond where people could just sit
and relax and observe the various wildlife views in the pond. Also, there
was talk of putting up some wood duck nests and possibly bluebird houses
and things of that n?ture. I think we were pretty on track with what we
wanted to do there. We wanted to have a couple of nice amenities like the
overlook bench and the picnic tables and we would like to do something for
the area to enhance it's richness like bluebird houses and wood duck houses
and that sort of thing but we didn't want to over develop. We didn't want
to put in an asphalt trail and even an aggregate trail. We felt that might ~
be a little overkill in the area. Because of the steep terrain surrounding
the pond and that sort of thing, an aggregate trail would lend itself to a
washing out and that sort of thing whereas a turf trail would prevent
eTosion and sediment from going into the pond and that sort of thing so we
just basically wanted to maintain turf trail. Put in a couple of picnic
tables. Probably up on top where it's good viewing and there are some nice
oak trees there so they could be somewhat shaded.
Lash: I think that's been done hasn't it?
Schroers: I don't know if the picnic tables are actually there or not and
I should know because I go along that trail all the time.
Lash: I was thinking that those had been added but.
Schroers: I don't think the picnic tables are in place personally. And
there was also talk of having a sliding hill there which is, it's a good
idea. It's a good location for a sliding hill but the residents who live
on the southeast side tend to slide right out of their backyards. I don't
think that we really need to do anything in terms of a formal sliding hill
other than maybe making sure that there's an area clear and putting up
signs that would indicate sliding permitted at your own risk between signs
so we know that we have a safe area that people can slide in and from that
point on it's up to Mother Nature to provide the snow to make adequate
sliding and it's not something that we would spend a lot of time or money
on maintaining.
Andrews: Let's do it.
~
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 7
Erhart: Yeah, the bird houses. The picnic tables.
Ruegemer: Do we also need to take a look at existing, like the steps that
are existing there and the Boy Scout bridges. We do need to do maintenance
on those? Upkeep?
Schroers: I think that is as warranted. You know, I think that the
maintenance crew should at some point in time however often, maybe you know
once a month during the summer take a look at the steps and at the bridges
to make sure they're in good repair and that there isn't a safety concern.
Lash: I thought we had the bird houses and stuff down there already too.
Didn't an Eagle Scout or something do wood duck houses?
Ruegemer: There are some wood duck houses down there.
Lash: Blue bird too?
Schroers: I think there are some wood duck houses. I don't know about
blue bird but I think that is the sort of a thing where an Audubon club or
bird watchers or another Scout project or something like that could go and
construct it or take it on as a project and I don't think it's anything
that we need to earmark money or time and labor for.
11"'"
Erhart: How about the observation deck Larry? Would that be a project for
somebody or is that something?
Schroers: That observation bench certainly would make a good Eagle
project. It is also somethin~ that we could do if we just wanted to get it
in place. One of the things that we should probably consider is that we
have so much to do and so much that we want to do. Things that are
affordable and can be done with the resources that are now available to us,
we should go ahead and do so we're gaining some ground and we're making
some accomplishments. I can't imagine that even if we have to purchase a
bench and have it installed that we would be talking over $500.00.
Robinson: It looks like in 1988, according to our 5 year plan there, I
assume it was done in 1988 because it goes out 5 years. We were going to
spend $400.00 on wood duck houses in 1989 and $600.00 on benches. And here
it is 1991, almost 1992 and we still haven't done that.
Lash: Well how do we know if we've done it or not?
Rugemer: It should be in the, if you look on the next page. It should be
on the inventory sheet.
Lash: You're talking about benches. Was that up on the top like along
Kerber?
Schroers: Yeah.
,....
Lash: There is something up there. I know I walk past there and it seems
like some things have been done but I can't say exactly what I've seen.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 8
...""
'Andrews: Are you talking like an observation deck?
Schroers: No. No. Just a bench. Just a benc~ for sitting on and over
looking the pond. So you can just sit there and relax. If we're talking
an observation deck, then we're generally talking about something, a
structure that extends out over the hill, that's elewated and that sort 6f
thing and then we're getting into a whole more dollars and something.
Andrews: That's why I askedtMe question. I wanted to make sure I
understood what we're talking about.
Schroers: Just a bench that will accommodate 20r 3 people to sit on and
just relax and take in the vista.
Andrews: I think we've got to get the benches done. We've been talking
about it for 4 years.
Schroers: I think what we want to do is ask staff to give us a current
inventory on what is going on there and to give staff the okay to go ahead
with the benches if they're not in place. To also, if we feel that you
want to designate an area f~r sliding, that we need to send the maintenance
crew down there who would be the most, 'have the most expertise on that and
have them choose what they feel is the safest, best area to slide and make
sure that it's free of obstacles. Branches, old posts, barbed wire, that
sort of thing and make sure that it's unobstructed and safe. Then just ..."",
install a couple of signs that say sliding permitted between the signs at
your own risk.
Erhart: Do we want to give them permission also to go ahead with getting
some tables budgeted for that:area? Or do we want to hold off on that?
Schroers: No, I think we want to get the picnic tables in place also.
They're not major cost items and we'd like to get Chan Pond Park up and
running. Up to sp~ed and then we can go on with needs in other areas.
Andrews: Let's do it.
Ruegemer: Do you want to put a cap on the benches? Just to go ahead and
do it and earmark so much.
Schroers: I think it needs to be decided whether we want one or two
benches and then I would think that it would be unrealistic to spend more
than $5qO.00 per bench including having them in place.
Andrews: Set a $1,000.00 limit.
Schroers: $1,000.00 limit for two or $500.00 limit for one.
Andrews: Okay.
Lash: I see that there was erosion correction in 1991 and then also there
was budgeted for 1992 plus, another $2,000.00. Is that something we need
to continue to budget money for erosion correction every so many years?
....".,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 ~ Page 9
Schroers: I think that should be on an as needed basis. I think that the
maintenance staff should bring that to our attention. When it occurs and
we should at ~hat point in time make a decision on it. Something like that
is totally dependent on what the weather does and it's hard to.
Lash: I thought maybe it was an ongoing problem just because it had been
slated a couple different times.
Schroers: Maybe it's incorrect. What we're going to have to do at this
point is stop our discussion of the 5 year capital improvement program here
and we're going to have to go back to item 1 and item 2. Item 1 we can get
out of the way real fas~ now that we have a quorum here so let's go to that
quickly.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes
of the Park and Recreation Commission dated October 22, 1991 as amended.
WendyPemrick was absent from the meeting so her name should be deleted
wherever it appears. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION APPLICATION INTERVIEWS.
"
Schroers: Briefly, before Jan and Curt were here, the criteria is here.
The list of questions is here. Last time we used a numerical scoring
system with 1 to 10. Giving each applicant a numerical score. At the end
we added up the scores and the highest score was the first appointed~ or
the first recommended. The second highest score was the second
recommended. We used a scoring system of 1 to 10 last time. I would say
that we could drop that down to 1 to 5 and simplify it a little bit. And
then what we do is we make it rather informal as not to intimidate the
applicants. We just move the tables together and gather the chairs around
the table and have them come in and sit down. What our mission here is to
be fair and to ask the same questions of each applicant in the same way so
they have a fair and equal chance to respond to each question and then we
just use our own best judgment and attach a numerical score to each person.
Lash: With 5 being the best?
Schroers: 5 being the best and 1 being the lowest and there is no zero.
If they showed up they get 1 point.
(The Commission outlined the procedures for interviewing the applicants.)
FRED BERG:
Schroers: This is going to be quite informal. We want you to be
comfortable. What we have is, we have some criteria that we base our
application process on and a list of questions. We ask .each applicant a
list of questions in the same manner and then we have a scoring system by
which we score and the two people that have the high scores will be the
people that get recommended to Council for approval. Generally speaking
I""" t.nat's. . .so we're not goi ng to waste anymore time. We're goi ng to jump
right into it and we'll take our questions in turn. I will start with the
first question. And that is a pretty simple one. Do you feel you have the
time to make th.e comm! tment? We meet once a month and there is some
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 10
,.",Ii
preparation work involved. We get an information packet that varies in...
but it takes a little time to review the material and then attend a meeting
once a month and there are pther things that come up during the course of
the year that aren't required of us b0t w~ feel it's our obligation to get
somewhat involved and help out where we can. Like the 4th of July
celebration. A couple people donate a couple hours and then... Do you
feel that you have the time?
Fred Berg: Yeah I do. It's a question I weighed before I submitted by
application. Particularly the second time. I have two daughters, a 12
year old ~nd almost a.7 year old and they're at a point now where they're
not spending quite as much time at home. I coached for 10 years up at
the High School. I assisted in Girls Basketball and quit that a few years
ago because of the time commitment. This appeals to me...because it isn't
the same kind of time. That was 5 nights a week. Two of those nights were
10:30-11:00 at night before I got home. Yeah, to answer very simply, I
think I can make that time commitment. I wouldn't have come to this point
if I didn't think so.
Schroers: Okay. Very good. Dawne?
Erhart: What is your impression of the current Park and Recreation
Commission and what do you feel that you could add either with your
expertise. . .?
'WffIIiI"
Fred Berg: As far as my feeling of the parks that are in existence now,
I'm a tennis player so I think they're really nice. I enjoy playing
tennis. I played tennis up at the courts by the elementary school before I
moved to Chanhassen. We got a group together that just came out here. I'm
not really an expert in the kinds of parks that you've been building lately
other than drive by over at Lake Susan for example and noticed the nice
ballfields and different kinds of courts there. What I like about them and
what I think I can add to it in terms of, I don't know if I'd ever say I
have expertise in that area because I've never done anything like this
before. But what I think I like about them and what I think I could add to
it maybe in way of hoping that that kind of thing could continue would be
the idea of, what I like about the parks is there seems to be very family
oriented. We spend a lot of time at, I can~t even remember the name of it.
Right by the New Horizon townhomes there. Green something.
Lash: Meadow Green.
Fred Berg: Meadow Green, that's what it is. Spent a lot of time there
with my daughter. Can go over there and play on the jungle gym. My oldest
daughter can run the dog around the area, on a leash of course. And my
wife and I can play tennis. It's very nice that it's centrally located.
It's nice that .it's family oriented and I think the same thing looks like
it would be true with Lake Susan and the other parks where they're oriented
towards the family and I guess in thinking too, they're safe. They appear
to be safe places. I don't really know, to be p~rfectlyhonest with you,
how to answer the question about expertise because I quite frankly don't
have a lot of expertise in this area other than I know the kinds of things
that I used to like to do as a kid and I know the kinds of things that the
kids in our neighborhood do and that would pe the kind of feedback I would
..."",
tII"'.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 11
illicit. I would assume that before you plan a park or do any kind of park
building, you look at things like demographics and what people want. What
they need and what they want.
Lash: What do you feel that the role of the Park and Rec Commissioner is?
Fred Berg: I would guess that it has to be a ve,'y good 1 istener. You have
constituents just like everyone else does and I'm sure in a community
that's growing like Chanhassen is, you've got people coming at you from all
types of directions. I would think that a park commissioner has got to be
a very good listener and very diplomatic and someone open to communicate.
I don't mean by open to communications just by listening to people and
saying that's really good. Thank you for your input but maybe going back
afterwards and explaining the decisions that were made. I think sometimes
public officials have a tendency to make decisions and they have to make
decisions sometimes quickly and I realize with the demands of time and
everything else, that everyone has other jobs, that it's not always easy to
communicate later. But a communicator can figure out a way to communicate
someway to those people who are affected by that decision. If they wanted
the park here and it's being put here, explain to them why. Or at least
make them feel comfortable enough to ask you why. And not say well there's
another bureaucratic decision. You can't fight City Hall. I'd like to
think that this... I'm sure it's not always easy...
",......
Pemrick: What are your feelings regarding conservation...
Fred'Berg: Can I ask you for your definition of passive versus active?
Pemrick: Passive is more where you just relax and watch nature.
Fred Berg: Okay, an Arboretum type... As far as the environment is
concerned, I don't think there's a whole lot of issues that I feel stronger
about. I'd like to think that I'm conveying to my daughters the urgency of
doing something with the environment and that we can do something about it.
Whether it be simple things such as recycling. Whether it be talking in my
classes where it's appropriate about such things as environment concern for
it. I think it's a vitally important issue. I can't imagine anybody can
sit here and not say that. I guess I would like to see a balance between
the active and passive. I think there's a real strong need for the kind of
place that you can go where you can...get some tranquility. I think often,
and this isn't the same kind of thing but it gives you an idea of my
feeling. Notmandale Junior College over in Bloomington, they have a
Japanese Garden. I don't know if any of you have ever been there but to me
it's just the most tranquil place to go. Right in the middle of the
city. Right off of France Avenue and right off of Normandale Blvd. I think
and the whole world going around you and you can walk into there and it's
just an incredibly peaceful place to just sit and watch the clouds or watch
the grass grow or as the Japenese say, listen to the rocks...and I don't
know if you want a Japanese garden in the middle of Chanhassen someplace
~ but if you've got someplace like that whete somebody can go In and feel
safe and comfort~ble and just have a quiet place to be. Whether it's to
walk with your kids or your wife who you haven't Mad a chance to talk to
for a couple of days because of your job, that's nice. I think the active
I
j
Park and Rec Commission M~eting
November 19, 1991 - Page 12
....."
parks speak for themselves. I think you have to have a place, I'm very
strongly in favor of having a place where kids can have recreation because
dealing with kids all the time that I do in High School, you've got to have
places where they can go. You've got to be able to provide things for
them. I know my daughter played basketball and a year of softball through
the Park and Rec here in Chan and just loved it. So did I ~..,hen I was .
playing in Minneapolis and it provides an opportunity for kids to do
something. To be able to get 4 or 5 people together and go down to the
park and play basketball. I guess there's a balance. If I had to choose
one or the other, because I don't think there's so many of them, I think I
would lean towards the passive. Just because I don't know that there's
lots of opportunities for that. If I had to choose.
Robinson: Could you just elaborate a little on why you wish to serve on
the Park and Rec Commission?
Fred Berg: Couple reasons. First of all, in my profession dealing with
kids all the time as I've elaborated on, I see a real need for that. I see
a real need for the kids to have places to go. I think this community has
done a terrific job so far in providing those things for kids. I want to
be part of the Park and Rec Commission in the hopes that that tradition can
continue. The other reason 'is I've always advocated to my kids at school
and my kids at home that if you're a part of a community, you should be
involved in it and take an active role in it and I haven't always done a
real good job of listening to my advice. Last year when this opening ....."
occurred and I applied obviously because I thought it was time that I do
start getting involved and start putting something back in. Chanhassen is
a wonderful place to work. A wonderful place to live and I guess I'd like
to have something to say about the future of it. Those are the two basic
reasons.
Schroers: I'll tell you what Fred, you're done. It was just that easy. I
think that you did a really good job. There were a couple of things in
particular that I noticed that I keyed on that we were definitely looking
for. Balance is one. That's real important. I think you've done a good
Job.
Robinson: Just so you understand. We are not a decision making body.
Fred Berg: You recommend to the City Council.
Robinson: Right.
Fred Berg: When you make recommendations to the City Council, are they
generally followed?
Schroers: Pretty much they. are..
Robinson: If they're not, we understand why.
Fred Berg: What are some of the things, if you don't mind me asking a
question.
--"
Schroers: We don't mind you asking a couple questions but we also have
,...,
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 13
people waiting so we need to move along but we will answer a couple of
questions.
Fred Berg: What are the kinds of things you get involved in in term$ of
decision making or recommending t guess?
Schroers: I guess a good way to put it is what we do is we try to acquire
and develop park and trail space for the City of Chanhassen and we take a
lot of things into consideration. One of the things yoU mentioned was
demographics. We look at the area and we decide whether or not the area is
park deficit. What amenities it has or what we want there and what
surrounding parks, where they're located and what amenities they offer and
we try to create, serve the needs and also to give some variety so that all
of our parks aren't the same. We take a lot of things into consideration
and also we're big on trying to find creative ways of funding because the
financial resources are strained at best. We use a dedication process. We
require developers to either dedicate a portion of their development or pay
fees in lieu of dedication and that's our decision. We decide and if the
developer declines, then he doesn't get issued a building permit.
Fred Berg: Rosemount had something to do I believe with the Lake Susan
Park?
r- Schroers: Yes. Rosemount was very good to work with and I think we got 1.7
acres of land from them which was very nice. The commercial development~
in town contribute significantly to our parks and trails as do the single
family residences and the multiple and all that. So there's really a lot
that's involved. We have a lot of work to do here. There's no doubt about
that and we do have our work cut out for us. Mainly furiding is what really
limits what we can do but we try t.o somet.imes have a brainst.orming session
and try to come up wit.h new ways of getting funding.
Fred Berg: Do you have a set budget. from the City Council?
Lash: We set. usually a yearly budget. that's approved by the Cit.y Council
and t.hen like tonight we're working on 5 year long range budget. That's
not definitely.
Fred Berg: Wow. I think that'd be real hard to do with the community
changing as fast as Chanhassen.
Schroers: It is. It's a 5 year capital improvement plan and not.hing is
cast in stone but we set goals. What we'd like to achieve in the first
year and what we'd like to achieve in the second year and try to earmark
funding to accommodate that. It's a continuing process and it continues
and it continues and it continues. It takes a while.
Lash:
pie.
...everybody in town feels like they're getting their piece of the
So one park isn't. getting more t.han it's share.
Fred Berg: That makes me think of another question. Are you
~ geographically represented on t.he Commission? Do you try to achieve that
kind of balance?
Schroers: That is part of our criteria here right now and we have to take
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 14
-"
that into consideration in making our selection.
Fred Berg: I would think that would be real important. If you want your
constituency to believe that you're a 'legitimate organization in terms of
truly representing the entire community, I think you have to.
Schroers: That is one of the considerations. Thank you very much fOr your
time.
Fred Berg: Thank you fOr your time. I appreciate it.
Schroers: You're welcome and I think you'll be getting something from the
City in regards to how this process all WOrked out.
BRUCE GRAUSAM
Schroers:What we do here Bruce is we have a criteria on which we base our
questions. We've got 5 questions that we ask the exact same question to
each applicant and then we have a scoring process and at the end of the
interviews we just add up the scores and the two people with the highest
scores will get passed onto the City Council for recommendation. So we ask
each question the same to each applicant to insure that it's fair. VerY
informal. Feel comfortable and we'll begin. I think Jim gets the first
question this time.
....."
Andrews: Do you feel that you have the time to make the commitment to the
Park and Rec Commission?
Bruce Grausam: I do. Between my work and I'm new to the area and
everything like that so being involved fOr me is a big plus. As far as
. being involved in the community and knowing what's going on and being a
part of that to help make decisions and better direct... As far as. the
time, I'm involved in some sports outside but...
Schroers: This will be a difficult question fOr you because you don't know
at this point what all is involved here but OUr meetings are generally. orily
once a month. Sometimes more and there's an infOrmation packet sent out
prior to the meeting that you need to spend some time going over to
familiarize yourself with the issues that are on the agend~ so -you know
what's going on fOr the meeting. The size of those packets vary. Some of
them you can maybe go through in an hour and sometimes it may take 2 Or 3
hours to go through. It's not a requirement but generally we volunteer our
services fOr events like 4th of July Or the Halloween Party Or the Easter
Egg Hunt. Things like that that we volunteer a few hours of QUr time. It's
not an extensive amount of time but it is a commitment and you have to have
some time available.
Bruce Grausam: That's what I guess I look fOrward to. It's just that type
of involvement in the things. When you see people being involved in things
like that yoU say, well that's kind of fun. Being part of a group and they
get to meet people just through the different activities. That kind of
thi ng. . .
...,.,
".....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 15
Schroers: Okay, real good. I've got the second question. This is also
going to be difficult for you to answer because you're new but what is your
impression of the current Park and Recreation system and what do you feel
you can add in the form of expertise and knowledge?
Bruce Grausam: I've visited
moved here. I've only been a
so... As far as what I could
and some things like that...
I've heard.
a couple of the parks in the area since I've
resident of Chanhassen since the end of June
go into I guess is just... What I like to do
This is what people I see like doing and what
Schroers: Okay. Have you had any kind of previous experience?
Bruce Grausam: Experience with the parks?
Schroers: With the park system? Working for parks in another community?
Bruce Grausam: No I haven't ever worked for a park...and we did soil
erosion control and stuff like that. Helped out.. .kind of wildlife,
forestry program... That's probably about the most...parks I go to.
Schroers: Real good. Thanks.
JI"'"
Lash: What do you feel the role of the Park and Rec Commission is?
Bruce Grausam: I guess on that point, the way I perceive the Park and Rec
would be to give guidance as far as what things do we feel will make
Chanhassen a better community to live in. Promote more community
involvement. Get people together so that people can interact in a more
casual envi~onm~nt. Whether it be on the 4th of July or Halloween... To
get together things like, to ask the goard. ..or things we see that the
community might need. ...putting a jungle gym here like they did for the
school...maybe an idea that we might have. Give direction...
Pemrick: what are your feelings regarding conservation and en~ironment and
passive parks versus active parks?
Bruce Grausam: Passive parks? Can I ask for a description?
Pemrick: Passive would be, have you been to Chan Pond Park? It doesn't
have ballfields. It's more of a wildlife, nature park. Natural area
versus...ballfields.
Bruce Grausam: I guess they both have their place. I enjoy the ball parks
and their fields and things that you can do there but I think...things like
that. On the other hand I also like. ..Carver County. Walking in the woods
to get away. It's real nice to kind of go out on your own. I think in
their different areas each individual they...different purpose. Some
people... That's where I see-the nice part about the area is that they do
have people, select people. ..it's important to have a balance between the
.~ two... As far as the conservation. To me it's important that they be kept
up...there's enough waste baskets. There's places for people to go to the
bathroom. Places like that so they aren't abusing it. As far as
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 16
...."I
conservation and things like that, people are actually out...is this side
of this hill going down the path...
Pemrick: Okay finally, could you elaborate on why you wish to serve on the
Park and Recreation Commission? In a nutshell.
Bruce Grausam: I guess I-'ve always had this great ambition to work
outdoors and be a part of something where you can actually see what you do.
Right now I'm a computer programmer and that's not being outside. It's
behind a desk and you sit there for 8 hours a day...on a computer and
things like that. This would be a great escape to actually be able to do
something for the community. Be involved. To say this is what I do for my
community. This is what I like about living here. I enjoy the outdoors a
lot. I spend a lot of time because I am inside so much. That's kind of
the big picture...
Schroers: Well Bruce, you made it through and I don't see any blood. You
did real good. You had good answers and we appreciate you taking the time
and the effort to come up here tonight and apply. We'll answer a couple of
brief questions if you have any. Otherwise we'll move along and take care
of the other people that are waiting.
(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.)'
Schroers: . ..the trails are our main focus and we do not make the final ...."I
decision. We're kind of like a research group or a work group for the City
Council and we look at all these issues and we study them and then we make
recommendations and we pass it onto the Council for approval. That's
basically what our job is but it includes everything that has to do with
the parks and trails including the programming, the staffing and the whole
9 yards so there is a lot of work we do here. If you're looking for
involvement, there's plenty to get involved with.
Lash: .. .we are also looking at trying to get a bike trail.. .cross over
TH 5. . . .somebody gives us a lot of money. ,We just don't have that kind
of money.
Schroers: We try to woyk along with development. When they improve the
highway, the State comes through, we can lobby with the State saying that
there is going to be a lot of pedestrian traffic in this specific area and
can we include a safe pedestrian access of some kind or another and lobby
to the State for help on that. But to just go ahead and construct one, I
guess we'd probably be looking at a quarter of a million dollars and our
budget for the whole 6ity for the entire year is $150,000.00 so. We'd come
up a little short on something like that.
Bruce Grausam: I just thought that...J know a lot of kids between the two
areas...That's another way that the community gets split is by a major
access to the city so I was thinking.
Schroers: It's a really good point and it's something that we definitely
focus on a lot. The trail system, we have in OUT capital improvements
program a proposed trail system for the entire city and we put parts and
pieces in place when we can. Our first preference is to have off street
-""
".....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 17
trails. In the ditch. A separate path where there is no traffic concern.
However, funding and utilities and all sorts of things come into play there
and some places we have to go to off street where we just paint the white
lines. Thanks very much for your time Bruce.
CY CHILDS
Schroers: We are the Park and Rec Commission and we conduct these
interviews where there are going to be vacancies and there are two corning
up in, when is it January 1st? Okay. The way we conduct these interviews
here is we have a set of criteria that we base our questions on. We have
just 5 questions. We ask the same question of each applicant in the same
manner to make it as fair and as equitable a system as possible. We attach
a numerical score to each applicant's answers and then we pick, in this
instance there are two positions going to be available so the two highest
scores we pass on to the City Council for approval and recommendations. We
left off with Wendy asked the last question right so Curt, we'll start on
the first question. When we're'done with the question we'll give you an
opportunity to ask us a couple of questions. Okay?
Robinson: Do you feel that you've got the time to make a commitment...
,....
Cy Childs: . . . yes. I live right down the street. I'm at a time in my
life where I'm... I'm just centering on my home and my community right
now. So those are my priorities.
Schroers: Do you want to elaborate a little bit Curt on the amount of
time?
Robinson: We meet once a month... There's some preparation work usually
involved.. .during the weekend. Between Friday and Tuesday. Going through
that takes maybe an hour to 3 hours... You've expected to take part in...
4th of July, Oktoberfest, Easter Egg Hunt.
Schroers: It's hard to say actually the number of hours that we have to
put in but there is more than just attending the meeting for 3 hours once a
month. There's generally a couple hours of preparation time for the
meeting and then a couple hours here and there to support the community
events. So you feel that you have the time for that? '
Andrews: Next question is, what is your impression of the current park and
recreatiori system...
Cy Childs: My only experiences have been primarily.. .all I do is playa
little softball over there. ...35 and over league and we've been swimming
a little bit. Basically that's been my useage of what's here as far as
public facilities. My son isn't of a age yet to play any ball...
Andrews: ...expertise, what do you think that would bring to the Park
Board Dr the community?
,.....
\
Cy Childs: Just the fact that I have a decent mind and I can absorb
information and make an honest decision on something.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 18
...."""
Schroers: We u~derstand that this is a difficult question for you and that
you've only been in the community for 6 months and so it's really difficult
for you to evaluate the current program here and we don't expect that you
~ould have a lot of information or a deep seeded impression of what
currently is going on here. We do understand that.
Cy Childs: I wish I could...
Schroers: That's good. At least you're a paying customer. What do you
feel is, and this is another question that might be difficult for a short
term resident. What do you feel the role of the Park and Recreation
Commission is?
Cy Childs: Really the politics involved, I have no idea. My common sense
just says you're concerned with the public areas of recreation. I have no
idea where those are in this community except for those ones that I've
visited. I assume that you're concerned with keeping those properties up
and possibly obtaining funds to improve what you have.
Schroers: Very good.
Erhart: What are your feelings regarding conservation and environment and
passive parks versus active parks? Passive parks being where yoU'go and.
Cy Childs: What the birds and what not?
...""
Erhart: Right, exactly.
Cy Childs: I can't believe that anybody would say they're into gas fumes
or...so conservation, that seems like that's pretty natural to say that.
. ..natural resource, that's a good thing to do. As far as the balance
between how much of public space should be available for climbing on slides
and running around and other areas for watching birds...relaxing, I think
you'd have to take a look at the demographics of the people that were
living in the area. I think if there's a lot of kids, then you want
something that's hopping. I think any community has to have to have areas
for adults to relax and gather their thoughts. ...Arboretum...but that
kind of a concept. My focus right now is on my son and where we expect to
be in this community for a while so I'm more interested in what. ..he can be
"entertained. But my wife and I still like to take a walk now and then. So
again, getting back to the demographics thirig, if there's a lot more young
people with kids I think...I think that's the way it's going to be. It
seems like this is a young...30 or 40, that age group with a lot of kids.
Lash: Can you elaborate on why you wish to serve on the Park Commission?
Cy childs: It's just the concept of being part of the community. Just
that simple. I have no idea how many commissions are involved with the
city but as soon as we moved in I said I want to do something here. I
don't know what it is... I first signed up for the public safety... It
really doesn't matter. So I signed up for that but I was late. The parks
appeals to me. Public safety, I'm not that, it's not that big of a thing
foY me but the parks I do use. I mean I'm going to be playing ball here
for a long time, I hope so and be watching my son around here. Taking him
...""
""""
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 19
to some of the public areas so it's a little bit... Something that I can
see that's affecting me too. Not just people.. .just a public service.
It's just the time in my life. Just that simple.
Andrews: I have to ask the question of where's Del Rio Orive? .. .that's
what I thought.
Schroers: We're drawing from the nucleous aren't we?
Andrews: We do as a commission are charged with trying to select
applicants that...represent the whole community. That's not the most
important thing but it's a factor...
Schroers: Yeah, we're pretty close but I guess that's appropriate that
people from the heart of the city are the ones that feel that they have the
most to contribute or feel more involvement or need for involvement.
That's pretty high criteria. I mean you've got to want to do it and
obviously you do or you wouldn't be here. That concludes the questions.
They weren't too hard. We'd be happy to answer any questions that you
might have at this time.
Cy Childs: No. I know so little that it wouldn't, you know.
,.....
Schroers: Okay Cyrus it was very nice to meet you. Thank you for coming
up and taking the time and the effort and the City will be letting you know
as to the outcome.
Cy Childs: Very good. Thank you.
RANDY ERICKSON
Schroers: What we're doing here is we have some criteria that we use to
develop some questions. We have 5 questions that we're going to ask you.
We ask all the applicants the same 5 questions in order to make things as
far and as equitable as possible. We attach a numerical score to your
answers and at the end of the interview, at the end of all the interviews
we will tally the scores and there are two positions currently available so
the applicants with the two highest scores will be recommended to the City
Council for appointment.
Randy Erickson: Okay, sounds fair to me.
Schroers: That's basically all there is to it. We do understand that you
as well as ~ost of the other applicants tonight have not lived in
Chanhassen for a long time so some of the questions may be a little bit
difficult from that perspective but we understand that so it's nothing to
be too concerned about and this is very informal so we'd like you to be
comfortable. Curt starts. Did you have the last question Wendy?
Lash: I did.
,.....
Schroers: Oh, I'm a little ahead of myself.
Pemrick: First, do you feel that you have the time to make a commitment?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 20
.....,
Randy Erickson: Yes. First I
a week? Or month, excuse me.
night a month, I have plenty of
research or a lot of research.
have a question for you. It meets one night
One night a month. For a couple hours one
time. I understand there will be some
I'm not too sure how much research that is.
Pemr ick: Well, pr ior to the meeti ng you'll get a packet and it involves...
Randy Erickson: So there's not a lot of outside research? Extensive
outside research?
Pemrick: ...research is kind of a group thing where we go visit a site and
that kind of stuff. And then it's also...4th of July...
Randy Er ickson: I did this year. I was there. That sounds li ke the ki nd
of thing that would fall right in line with my present time commitments.
I'm married but I have no children yet, so I'm not running off to away games
of soccer and anything like that. In fact that sounds well within... I do
travel occasionally with my job which would put me out of town but I think
that can be arranged far enough in advance. I kind of control my own
schedule. I mean that's helpful that ii's the fourth Tuesday of every
month. Because I basically do my own schedule 99% of the time...
Robinson: What's your impression of the current park and rec system and
what do you feel you can add to.. .expertise or knowledge?
...",
Randy Erickson: I don't have a lot of knowledge of the whole park
str0cture. My knowledge has been, as you may already know from looking at
my application, I've only been here since June. The only thing I've really
noticed is what I've seen in the parks. We don'~ live far from Lake Ann
and I've been to the Lake Minnewashta Regional Park there and I really like
the parks that I've seen. They look well planned out. That's what's
impressed me about Chanhassen is everything seems to be well planned out.
That just requires a lot of foresight. What I could bring to that I'm not
really sure...on the Park Commission before but I consider myself a pretty
objective person. Pretty fair person and pragmatic...so I just hope I can
bring a little bit of vision... \
Andrews: What do you feel is the role of the Park and Rec Commission?
Randy Erickson: That I'm not really technically sure what the role is.
But I think just to give guidance to the City Council to see to it that the
parks are kept up. That the parks meet the community's needs. The parks
and the events I think you also have a lot of input. The 4th of July
celebration... The people in the community are enjoying what they're
paying for and it does need to be kept up. I've been to a lot of parks in
my travels and some of them you go in and you won't use the. ..house and
those kinds of things. I've been very impressed with Chanhassen's parks
a nd I keep...
Schroers: What are your feelings regarding conservation and the
envirnoment and passive parks versus active parks? Passive parks are what
L~e consider to be nature areas and just open areas. Green space and that
sort of thing. And active parks are parks withballfields, tennis courts,
that sort of thing.
......".
'"
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 21
Randy Erickson: As far as my views on conservation. My education is in
biology. I'm a biology major and I think that point of view, because of
all the classes you have to take, it brings you a realization that
resources are finite. We study ecology and those kinds of things so I
think conservation is very important. Exactly the difference between the
passive and the active pal-ks, I love the, the active parks and the
ballfields and those kinds of things because I like to play sports. I like
softball. I'm not presently on a team or anything but I'd like to get into
that and the beach, taking my family to the beach... but then I've also
been to, is it Minnewashta Park.
Schroers: The regional park.
Randy Erickson: The regional park over there and maybe just because no one
else was thete but that seemed to be a little bit more the natural
environment. The open spaces and the fields and the prairie grasses and
that stuff and I like that kind of thing too. I think that's very
important. Not everybody wants to play hOTseshoes or goes to play
volleyball. Some people just need some space and some trees...
.
Schroers: Okay, good.
,-.
Erhart: Then Randy, if you would just elaborate why you wish to serve on
the Park and Rec Commission.
Randy Erickson: Honestly, the first reason above all that I wanted to
serve on it was to get involved in the community. I've waited a long time
to be an adult member of a community. I grew up in a-nice town and have
been through college and that kind of stuff. Traveled and not been. ..and
this is where my wife and I plan t.o st.ay for several years and I'd like to
be active in t.he communit.y. I was act.ive in student government in college
and I know that in a small environment, in a small town and even in a small
school you can make changes. You can help things improve together wit.h
ot.her people and t.hat's really what. my main reason is. The fact t.hat. it.
was the park commission, the lit.t.le ad I saw in the paper I thought. would
just. be a bonus because if you're doing somet.hing you like and somet.hing
you're int.erested in...everybody wants parks. I do too. I spend a fair
amount of time in t.hem so T t.hink I can bring some object.ivity and
creativity and vision to the park commission.
Schroers: Very good, Randy.
Andrews: Can I ask my last question? Where is Canyon Curve?
Randy Erickson: We are over in Saddlebrook.
Andrews: Okay, cent.ral Chanhassen.
Randy Erickson: Yeah, right. over in Saddlebrook.
"'"
Schroers: Randy, you've made it. t.hrough the process here. All of the
quest.ions are complet.e. You did a real good job and we'll give you the
opportunity to ask us a couple of questions if you have any.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 22
~
Randy Erickson: I guess I can't think of any off the top of my head. The
main question I had wa~ your role. Basically I assume that's advice to the
City Council on decisions made that affect the parks.
Robinson: I think you answered that one perfectly.
Randy Erickson: I served on enough commissions and boards in college to
realize you really don't know what goes on until you sit down there and
feel the pressure that...you have to mak~ decisions. That's.. .there for.
Schroers: We look at all aspects bf the parks and trail systems within the
city. Existing and PToposed and we 'study it and research it and make our
recommendations to the City Council for approval and generally that's just
a formality. They confide in our ability most of the time. It's rare th~t
they don't go along with our recommendation. That's basically what we do.
,I'd like to thank you very much for your time and interest in coming here
tonight and the City will let you know as to the outcome.
Randy Erickson: Well thank you. I appreciate the fact that you've been
interviewing everybody here. And my buddy Bruce who was in here too.
Schroers: Okay, thanks a lot.
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
-'
Schroers: Okay, we're on item 2 of the agerida. The Park and Recreation
Commission applicant interviews. The interviews have been completed and we
are now looking for a motion to recommend to the City Council our selection
for the two new commission members who are. Let me get the names here.
Fred Berg and Randy Erickson. Do I have a motion?
Erhart: I'll second that. Oh no, I'll make a motion that we ask Council
to approve or appoint Randy Erickson and Fred Berg to the Park and Rec
Commission.
Schroers: Is there a second?
Robinson: I'll second it.
Erhart moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend, to appoint Randy Erickson and Fred Berg to the Park and
Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
UPDATE 5 YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. COMMUNITY PARKS (CON'T).
Schroers: Okay, so we are done with item 1, 2 and 3. We were in the
middle of item 4, the update on the Capital Improvement Program.
Andrews: We were at City Center Park was where we left off.
Schroers:
So we will continue.
Were we completed with Chan Pond?
Ruegemer:
I believe so.
....,,'
JII"'"
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 23
Schroers: Okay. City Center.
Andrews: Do we know yet at all this new supposed proposed city center?
Ruegemer: Yeah. The proposed park?
~)ndrews: Yeah.
,Ruegemer: That's still up for public discussion and then public hearings.
I don't know when the next one is but that still hasn't been decided yet.
Funding will go before the HRA.
Andrews: That impacts the rest of this development too so.
Ruegemer: Right.
Lash: It's kind of frustrating. Everyone we have we can't do anything
"Ji th.
Ruegemer: Contingent on other decisions.
r
Schroers: Yeah, you know maybe rather than spending our time with this
issue here this evening when we can't really do anything with it, is maybe
what we should do is table this to a future meeting when we can have the
concept plans of the park available and current budgeting and funding
capabilities and a copy of what we proposed on our last capital improvement
plan so we can remain consistent and try to proceed on course. If that
information isn't available to us tonight, I think we're just spinning our
wheels looking into these things when we can't do anything ~bout it.
Andrews: I'll make the motion that I agree completely. That we should
table this and have this brought forward at hopefully the next meeting. If
we can have an easel out like we've had with other major developments where
we could see it, I think we could get through this a lot faster. So I move
that we table this item until the next meeting and have more information
available so we can make informed decisions.
Schroers:
I'll second it.
Andrews moved, schroers seconded to table the 5 year Capital Improvement
Program for the Community Parks until the next Park and Recreation
Commission meeting so staff can provide more information. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
Schroers: For future reference.
Andrews: It's for next meeting is what the motion says so.
Schroers: Next ,meeting.
II""-
PARK AND TRAIL FEE REVENUE REPORT.
Ruegemer: Okay all the information, Lake Ann and Lake Susan?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 24
.....".
Schroers: Yeah, I think we want them all at once.
Ruegemer: As of October 31, 1991, 83.33% of the year has expired.
$73,824.00 park fees and $26,192.00 in trail fees have been collected.
Other revenues in this fund include $27,212.24 in interest. $2,000.00 in
donations and the $11,333.00 in insurance recovery. The insurance recovery
was from the Lake Ann light standards that was destroyed by vandalism last
September of 1990. Revenue totals equals $139,894.24. That is 61%,61.30%
of the $228,000.00 budgeted.
Robinson: Excuse me Jerry. I don't understand the second sentence. These
figures represent 67% and 52% of the budgeted expenditures.
Ruegemer: Where we're at right now is what is actually come in and what
was actually budgeted for that. The revenue totals are at 61%, or roughly
61% of the $228,000.00 that was budgeted in the year 1991.
Robinson: Way up, the second sentence. Where you talk about the fees
coll.cted and then these figures represent percent of the budgeted
expenditures. You're first talking fees or revenue and then that says it
represents x percent of expenditures. Budgeted expenditures.
Andrews: It should say revenues.
Robinson: Should it? I would think so. In other words you budgeted to .....".
collect.
Lash: But they have expected to collect a certain amount by that period.
Is it by that period in time or for the whole year?
Robinson: The word expenditures.
Lash: But then that's a certain percentage of what we have to date used.
Is that what that's saying? That's how I understood it.
Andrews: Yes, you're correct.
Ruegemer: Right. I think it's 67.11% of the park fees and 52% of the.
Lash: So we're operating in the red is what it's saying? We've collected
67% of what we've.
Andrews: Of what we plan to spend.
Lash: That's where I have a problem understanding how we can do that.
Erhart: How can we spend more than we have you meaD?
Lash: Right.
Robinson: Talk tO,my wife.
Erhart: Talk to my husband.
...""
,.,..,
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 25
Ruegemer: So I think that's what Todd...in the event of a budget shorfall
in the 410, the most likely scenario that the general ledger will carry the
defi ci t . . .
Lash: So then does that corne out of our '92 budget OT where does that corne
from?
Andrews: Yeah, we'd have to make a budget allo\~ance in our 1992 budget to
cover the shortfall. We had to do the same thing last year for a small
amou nt .
Erhart: Thank goodness it's a small amount.
Andrews: Well this year it isn't a small amount.
Ruegemer: If you turn around to the back, that might explain it a little
bit better. The budg'eted revenue for 1991 vJas budgeted at $228,000.00 and
the budgeted expenditures is $199,250.00. That is budgeted expenditures to
date is $202,262.75. That does include the insurance. The difference as
of October 31, 1991 is a deficit of $42,868.73.
Lash: So we have to take $42,000.00, almost $43,000.00 out of next year's
,.... budget?
Ruegemer: That's just as of October 31st so there still will be revenue
coming in.
Andrews: That's 30% off.
Lash: So even if we didn't spend any more money for the rest of the year,
whatever we get in, we could still have, easily have a $30,000.00 defi6it.
Robinson: But it says expenditures incurred in the month of November and
December will bring the expenditures close to the budgeted amount.
Andrews: For expenditures right?
Reugemer: For expenditures. Not budgeted revenue.
Robinson: Oh yeah, sorry.
Erhart: We're spending what we thought we would. We're just not
collecting what we budgeted.
Schroers: But we may collect more before the end of the year so we may in
fact lessen this deficit or depending on how much we collect, we may even
come out in the black. But we're not going to know until the end of the
year.
,....
Lash: I can't imagine November and December we'll be collecting a lot.
Robinson: Not this November and December.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 26
...,,"
Andrews: The point is though, there's very little we could cut between now
and the end of the year. It's all pretty much done. But this does put us
in a heck of a lot of hurt for next year's budget if we have to allow for a
$40,000.00 shortfall to start the year out. That wipes out half our bud~et
right off the block. Or a third of the budget will b~ eliminated before we
even start. I'm glad we were cohs~rvative but apparently we weren't
enough.
Schroers: Our only recourse there was to present the information to the
Council and ask them to help us make up the deficit for our new budget.
Andrews: We do have some reserves that were created for this type of
ocurrence too.
Lash: I can't imagine that they'll be too sympathetic with our plight here
because they're right now doing public hearings on,next year's budget and
having public hearings on that. People are up in arms and they're taking a
position of not raising city taxes.
Andrews: I would expect any money from City Council at all.
Lash: So what happens to this?
Schroers: What happens is what's happening to the rest of the system.
of right now I have about 12 hours of meeting time in today so far and
program is the same everywhere you look. You're going ,to be short and
you're going to bite the bullet. You're not going to be able to do
everything that you think you want to do and that is the bottom line.
As
the
...",
Lash: It just comes out of next year then.
Robinson: Yeah.
Andrews: That's what it says too.
Schro.rs: We're lOOking at letting go of permanent employees. I mean not
just through attrition, which we've tried to do in the past but they are
now looking at layoffs so the situation is pretty bleak for the near
foreseeable future in government funding and we're going to, I'm sure that
we're going to feel it along with every other agency.
Andrews: I guess I feel I'd like to see if we could at least direct the
staff to defer any expenses possible between now and the end of the year.
Schroers: We've done some of that ourselves through the commission already
and I think they will continue to.
Lash: I can't imagine that there's a lot of things going on that ,we'~be
spending a lot of money on. I mean we're not ordering things that I kn6w
of at this time.
Schroers: Well and other big budgeted things such as the shelter at Lake
Ann and that sort of thing are ~ind of on hold so, although the money's
already spoken for, it's not going out.
.."",
~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 27
Lash: I can see where maybe some of the things that we had anticipated
putting in there.
Andrews: We've got budgeted expenditures that haven't been paid yet. I'm
sure like some of the grading projects and so forth, that there are notes
on it here that the money will not be released until it's inspected. That
may not happen until spring but it's not budgeted but not expended. That's
already shows her~.
5chroers: Here's what we have to look at. What we have to look at doing
in the event of this and I think that you'll agree that it's logical and it
makes sense. What we have to do is channel the funding that we have in the
direction to complete things that are already started and as far as jumping
into new endeavors with funding is questionable. Those have to be put on
hold. But what we don't want to do is have one thing half completed and
then start on something else and then end up in a situation where we have
two things st~rted and not enough funding to complete it either.
Erhart:
A bunch of half finished products.
5chroers: Yeah. We've, got to tie up our ends and put our new things that
~>Je'd like t.o do, our new development and that sort of thing on hold until
.~ such time as they're feasible.
Andrews: Another comment too, I guess I feel since this crisis is quite
acute, I'd like to see these repol-ts each meeting. This situation is
pretty severe and it will allow us to take action quicker and to be more
informed as to what our position is.
Lash: Or at least quarterly.
5chroers: I think I'm lacking in that area and I don't know how the rest
of you feel but if someone were to ask me, what is the current status of
the Park and Recreation Commission budget, my honest answer would be I
don't know. So I f~el that is something that should be included and
something that we should be aware of. I agree with them whole heartedly.
Lash: It isn't anything that we can't control the money corning in. I mean
it's just pyojections. " .but we have to then, when we see, we have to
review this often enough so if we see that the projected revenue is falling
way off. I mean the actual revenue is falling way off from our
projections, then we've got to be on top of that enough to make some
alterations in our expenditures so at the end of the year we don't have a
big deficit like this. That's just not a good way to operate.
Andrews: Like most churches have budgeted expenses that they budget
revenues to date and then just show you on a monthly basis where you stand.
Even if it was just a paragraph put in each month of where we stand, that
would be very, very helpful.
~ Schroers: To put it in perspective of how' bad the thing is, our accountant
is bailing out of the program.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 28
--'
Lash: . ..say in the By-laws that the retiring commissioners are required
to make up any deficits incurred...
Robinson: I think it would also, did we determine that budgeted revenue,
$228,000.00? How did that number?
Ruegemer: I'm sure it's on a Commission level that they decide or try to
project as close to as possible with the projected building permits.
Robinson: I think if we could see where we are every month or quarterly or
something it would help to set that amount for the coming year also.
Lash: Well I'm guessing, I'm just guessing that the budgeted revenue are
figures that come possibly from Don Ashworth based on developments that he
knows that are on line and past patterns and what the developers have done
it fast or slow so I think the projected revenues are just basically
educated guesses for us to work with to start with and we have no control
over that. what we have to do is keep on top of what's coming in before we
get hit with $43,000.00.
Schroers: That's exactly right. This agenda item if I'm correct doesn't
require any action on our part. It's just information for us and our
response to this item is to request staff to update us on a more frequent
time frame as to where we are sitting with our budget and I think that we
have enough confidence in staff's competence to decide how often they feel ~
that they will n~ed to update us on that.
Andrews: Curt, it is awful suspicious that this crisis came up right when
you're leaving.
Robinson: You're going to say yeah, when we're gone Erhart and Robinson
got us into this.
Lash: That's a political answer.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Andrews: My only question is when do you expect to see rink flooding try
to get going?
Ruegemer: We'ye actually in a lot better shape
heavy snowfall it kind of insulated ~verything.
it's saturated the ground. If we get some cold
real nice and we'll have a good base.
now than we were. With the
But now that it's melted
weather it will freeze up
Pemrick: It filled itself.
Ruegemer: Well to a certain degree I guess. Typically we like to get
things going about the second or third week in December so roughly
projected dat'e would be about the 15th or 20th of December.
Andrews: I've got the kids asking me so.
-'
Ruegemer: Oh, is that right?
",.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 29
Schroers: I just have an item of interest. Today was my first opportunity
ever to see the new community center in Chaska. I was in it all day long
and I was just totally impressed and I think what we need to do is somehow
encourage the residents of Chanhassen to get over and see that facility so
they become completedly Jealous and enviable the next time something like
that comes up on a referendum we can have one here because the place is
great.
Ruegemer: Maybe we can get a shuttle going down there to Chaska. Meet at
City Hall that will start taking people down there.
Schroers: I think also birds of a feather should flock together and we
should make real good friends with the Park and Rec Commission from the
City of Chaska and see if we can't get some honorary memberships for
Commission members.
Robinson: Hennepin County Parks Commission meets in a facility in Carver
County?
Schroers: Yeah we did. This was, we took advantage of the, Hennepin Parks
is a very opportunistic organization.
~ Andrews: Another word for cheap?
Schroers: No, another word for smart. I've got to give them credit. We
took advantage of the MRPA, Minnesota Recreation and Park Association
'convention and since several noted speakers of the field were in town, we
cashed in one to address our specific issues with Hennepin Parks and
because of other ongoing scheduled events, all of the facilities that we
have that were of a size that would accommodate the entire, basically all
the full time employees were there for the morning and just the management
for the afternoon but we needed a space bigger than we have and the
community center was open in Chaska so that's why we ended up there. And
we listened to a lady named Beth Black of Disney World in Florida and she
was impressive. She had her ducks in a row. Terribly intelligent~ I'm
glad I'm not married to her. I could never argue with her. She was a real
speaker you know. You'd be in a tough situation if you had to argue with
het because she really had her facts together. I ~as real impressed.
Ruegemer: Are there any more commissioner presentations?
Robinson: No, that's enough.
Lash: The teen night out. I heard good comments about that. As a matter
of fact, I heard that there were kids that li ked that better 'than the next
l~eek was a school party so there was a little competition but that was one
thing that maybe what we needed to do was look at when the school parties
are so they're spaced a little bit farther apart.
Ruegemer: We did. It's so hard now getting into the winter months. We
~ have to schedule around the basketball. A lot of kids that go around the
basketball and some of the other. We try not to compete but you certainly
don't I'Jant to create any ill feelings between the two groups. The district
and special events.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 30
-"
Lash: But there's another teen night out coming up.
Ruegemer: December 6th.
Lash: Yeah and then there's another school party so it's like two parties.
They'll get burnt out on parties.
Ruegemer: We have the good ones though. Yeah I think the kids really
enjoy having the music from KDWB. Next time we have Air Jordan coming
here. Not the basketball player. The Dj from KDWB so he'll be there.
Pepsi sponsors this next one so it doesn't cost us anything. Or Chaska
anything. So Pepsi picks up the music. The contract for the music. They
hand out Pepsi sun glasses. Pepsi shirts. Frisbees. Duffle bags.
Corn nuts. Anything. They hand out a lot of things. And it's all
up by Pepsi because they're trying to promote their product and give
to the community. That type of deal. So it's really a good program
we've had a lot of success from it.
did
out
And
picked
back
and
Pemrick: What's the age group?
Ruegemer: 6th, 7th and 8th grade. We didn't have any problem with that.
We thought we'd have a lot of high school kids trying to get in causing
problems. We didn't have any problems with that at all.
Lash: They wouldn't be caught dead there with 6th, 7th and 8th graders. -'
Ruegemer: We had a good turn out though. We only projected about 100-150
and I think we had close to 400. So we had very, very good turn out.
Lash: So where did you get the chaperones?
Ruegemer: We used, maybe I'll tell you the groups. Chanhassen Park and
Rec, Chaska Park and Rec and Community Education all co-sponsored. We
pooled our resources and we kind of took an area to pursue the planning for
the party. Community Ed _is the one who got the volunteers and th~y sent
out their, kind of their pre-school questionnaire to all the different
parents in the dist.ict and one of the questions was, would you be willing
to help out in some form or fashion in any type of activity after school.
So ~hey had pretty much their homework done. It was just a matter of
making a few phone calls. Parents were more than happy to volunteer so it
really worked out really nice. We just kind of strategically placed people
where we thought the~'d need the most supe.vision.
Lash: I thought had a dance contests... and that was fun.
Ruegemer: And the DJ's were very audience pa.ticipation. Trying to get
everybody involved. Everybody was dancing. I thought that age g.oup
there'd be a lot of wall flowers but there really wasn't.
Lash: t think if you do those kinds of things, it pulls them out whe.e
maybe they would tend not to get involved.
Ruegeme.: Prize give aways were ~ plus. We had Dominoes coupons and
shirts and community center water bottles and we gave away a boombox. A
"""'"
,.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 31
nice boombox. Cassette tapes. They really enjoyed it.
Lash: Are you setting up some skiing for this winter too?
Ruegemer:
February.
You bet. We've got it planned.
Three trips this year.
We're going in January and
Lash: Are you going to Hyland at all?
Ruegemer: No.
Lash: Didn't you say you would help plan something to Hyland?
Andrews: That's easy. If you've 'already got it all set, it's all set.
Ruegemer: Typically the kids kind of like to get away from Hyland.
Andrews: It's a small hill.
Ruegemer: They think it's not cool. They've got to go Afton. We're going
to go to Afton, Wild Mountain and Trollhaugen this year. Kind of get away
from the area a little bit. I think that's what they like.
,...
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
HALLOWEEN PARTY REPORT.
Ruegemer: The annual Halloween party we kind of had an unexpected snow
storm that prevented a few people from showing up but for the most part we
had a very good turn out considering the weather predictament. We had
roughly, pretty much 285 kids and parents sign up before that
pre-registered so that was a very good turn out. About 40 did turn up that
night which wasn't a problem because we did have other people come off the
street and we were willing to allow them to enter st that point. We had
very good contributions from local businesses as far as cash donations. The
Dinner Theatre gave away tickets again this year. The bowling alley gave
free bOllJl i ng coupons for games of bowl ing. Subway donated si x 6 inch subway
sandwiches to be given away at drawings so that really added a lot of the
atmosphere of people coming in and were able to drop or sign up for prizes
which was, it was a really good deal. It's the first time we had it this
year and I think kids really enjoyed it. Parents enjoyed it the Dinner
Theatre tickets. So that itself was a big hit. There seemed to be a
little bit of confusion about what hallway to go down and we can certainly,
we're going to create a better situation for next year. We're just going
to, this year and in previous years they had to decide which hallway they
wanted to go down. Make a choice. What we're going to do next year is .
just buy enough candy to allow kids to go down both hallways and once
they're there, they enjoy going down both hallways and we're just going to
alleviate that problem and have enough supplies to go down both hallways to
satisfy. They do pay a nominal fee but just to once they get there they
~ have a good time. So it's going to allow them to do that for next year.
We're going to clean up the registration process a little bit for next
year. Last year we had a lot of, or this year we had a lot of people come
in late as far as coming in after the registration was closed. It's an
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
November 19, 1991 - Page 32
...,
unfortunate situation. It's not the kids fault and you kind of have to
take a look at that and try to correct that problem too so what we're going
to do is have registration open a day later for next year to help get a lot
of the late people that come in. There's a lot of people that don't think
of it until they're up upon the date of the party. So what we're going to
do this year, well I tried to stick to my guns and if you don't
pre-register you don't go and that really didn't help out the kids at sll
and I kind of felt bad about that so what we're going to do next year is
not advertise for it but we are going to take pre-registration. That's
what I would like the majority of the people to do but also we will take
registrations at the door. There's a lot of people that I talked to said
we've never pre-registered. We've always paid at the door in the past and
I did get flyers out to the schooTs and advertise in the paper and things
like that so I'm going to try to get the bulk of the registration and we
can kind of predict how many supplies. How many candy bars we need:
Cookes. That type of deal...
(A tape change occurred at this point in the meeting.)
Robinson: Now are we going to meet on Tuesday night the 24th?
Lash: The 10th. But I thought Todd said or maybe it was you Jerry said we
wanted to just try and have a light agenda.
Ruegemer: Have a Christmas party?
_"i
Lash: Yeah.
Erhart: Just one thing real quick before we close. If you people in the
future need any help, I'm still willing to participate on the 4th or July
okay? Or any of those other events. Just because I'm not on the
Commission doesn't mean I'm not willing to help.
Robinson moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Coordinator
Prepared by Nann Opheim
....",