PRC 1991 12 10
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CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 10, 1991
Chairman Schroers called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Dave Koubsky, Larry Schroers, Curt Robinson,
Wendy Pemrick, Jim Andrews and Dawne Erhart
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator; and Jerry Ruegemer,
Recreation Supervisor
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Koubsky seconded to approve the
Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated December 10,
1991 as amended on page 4 by Jan Lash, changing the word "inaccessible" to
"accessible". All voted in favor and the motion carried.
INTRODUCTION OF JUDY COLBY. SENIOR CENTER COORDINATOR.
Hoffman: Tonight I'm pleased to introduce Judy Colby to everyone. As part
of the continuing effort to better serve Chanhassen's senior residents, Ms.
Colby has been ret~ined as the Senior Center Coordinator for the new senior
center which will be located next door. Just behind the City Council
chambers. Perhaps in a moment we'll take a walk over there if you don't
know what that space looks like. Ms. Colby is employed by the Senior
Community Services, a United Way supported non-profit agency with whom the
~ City has contracted for her services. She's working about 12 hours a week
to begin with. Typically on a 3 day schedule, about 4 hours per day. Over
the next 6 months prior to the center's opening, we thought it was
important to have Judy into the office preparing. Doing research and about
programming and getting to know our staff and as well the senior population
in the city. End of speech. Join me in welcoming Judy to the city of
Chanhassen.
Schroers: Welcome Judy.
Judy Colby: Thank you. It's good to be here.
Schroers: It's nice to know that we're going to have a senior program in
Chanhassen here. My mother belongs to Tolheim down in Chaska and they have
a pretty nice program there and it makes life for the older people a lot
more fun. She has mbre activities and more things going on now than I do.
It's harder to get on the phone than I am so it's good. Nice to know we're
getting this.
Judy Colby: ...1 was in Todd's office for an hour this week and the first
hour I get a call from the architect saying, well tell me what your program
is for next year so I know what to do on drafting these plans. I sort of
went give me one more hour. No, I'm real excited about this. It's kind of
a dream. My background is all in advertising...and this is sort of my
second carreer in my life. It's just so opportune to be a resident here
and also on the ground floor.
,....,
Schroers: Well good, I'm sure you'll be well received. The communities
around here, I don't know how long you've been in the area but I know that
they have programs where they interact between the towns of Victoria
Waconia and Chaska and they all go back and forth so there's things ~oing
PaYk and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 2
on. The volunteer drivers and that sort of thing I've found out is really
kind of... It's something they get a lot of use out of.
Judy Colby: That's one things, I read the Minutes for the last year the
Commission has been meeting and tyanspoytationis always right up there.
Schroers: Great. Well sounds good.
Robinson: Thanks for stopping by. Did you say we're going to see the area
if we have time?
Hoffman: Sure. We'll take a walk over there.
Robinson: Good.
Lash: Maybe we should do that'-now before Dawne gets here. Before we get
into the budget thing.
Hoffman: If you want to sure.
(The Commission took a short recess to tour the future senior community
center area.)
UPDATE 5--YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. COMMUNITY PARKS. CONTINUATION~
Hoffman: In preparing this item for discussion at the last meeting I was
anticipating that it would be available that evening. Unfortunately I was
not and thus the information was included in your packet insufficient to
carry out that conversation. So we'll continue that this evening and
hopefully get through the 5 year plan for our community parks and make some
progress in that regard. In conceptualizing in developing a 5 year capital
improvement program, a number of factors are considered. One that first
comes to mind, as always is the ability to finance. However, in the 5 year
plan or in a goal setting plan, I believe these factors should stand in the
shadow of the more dominant goal of planning and comprehensive city park
and recreational facility system which you as commissioners believe
accommodates residents at a desired level. If the commission, City Council
and staff is motivated to accomplish a certain project, great attempts can
be made to do so. If a conservative approach to development is desired and
recommended, that will be reflected at the end of the 5 year window that
we're taking a look at. Other influencing factors include population
growth, demographics, special interest groups that come to the Commission
with requests from time to time. The ever growing environmental concerns
and a number of other factors. With that I'll just briefly run down each
of the parks prior to discussing them with some overview comments and
then I would like to open it up to the commission members for your thoughts
on where you believe the city should be. headed with these community parks
over the next 5 year time period and beyond. The first park is Bandimere
Community Park. As you're aware, this 30 acre parcel of property was
purchased from the Bandimere Estate in 1989 at a cost of $200,000.00. The
site consists of mainly tillable ground whick is leased to Mike
Klingelhutz. We held bids on that property each year and Mike was
successful for a 2 year contract. We earn rent of about $1,200.00 per year
off of that property. The remainder of the site is made up of an old farm
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 3
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site. Drainageways, sloped areas and a small strip of timber. Concept
plans for the development of the site were prepared in 1989. With
completion of Lake Susan baseball fields and the continuing desire to
equitably develop field facilities within the city, I believe changes to
that plan are now necessary. I've outlined those changes. They include
one Babe Ruth field. The elimination of one of the Babe Ruth fields since
we have one at Lake Susan and the inclusion of 1 or 2 girl's softball
fields, depending on what room allows for. I also believe that the
position of ruling out the installation of lights at this time or in the
near future should not be taken. As can be seen from this attachment, this
park will be at the crossroads of the first major interchange in TH 212
from the east. 15 or 20 years, this now rural park will be sur~ounded by
single and multi family neighborhoods. In regards to the issue of the
William's Pipeline, preliminary study has shown that will have a varying
impact on construction activity, depending on the park's final design
configuration. The pipe currently lies just about 3 feet underneath the
ground level so obviously we'll be doing an amount of grading. We'll be
working with William's Pipeline to correct that situation. A conservative
estimate of the funds necessary to develop this park is shown in either of
the concept plans as $400,000.00. About twice the purchase price. The
grant proposal currently being investigated for Bandimere Park is of a
preliminary nature and in no way obligates the City to develop the site. In
fact it's a pretty far shot at the type of grant we received for the Lake
Susan construction project with the boat access and the field development
and the playfield development would be successful at Bandimere simply
because it does not have access to water. The development of access to
public waterways scores very high in those grant proposals and if you do
not have it, as is in the case with Bandimere, you simply have the athletic
facility. Down in the very low percentage of receiving those grants so we
can in no way rely on that grant coming through for the development of
Bandimere Park. We're going to need to look to most likely a bond issue at
some point in the future. Do you want to go ahead and take them one at a
time Larry?
Schroers: Okay. Well, do you want to look at the site layout or a
projected schedule of development?
Hoffman: A projected schedule of what the commission, what their sense of
the need for development of that park site is to each individual
60mmissioner. Obviously if you're going to develop through a bond issue,
it's going to have to be a public, the public is going to have to be
interested. The citizens are going to be interested in that development
and if they see no need for it, there's no reason for us to push the issue
of development. So we need to key into the athletic associations in town
and the youth-associations aDd their feelings as to how well the City is
dividing athletic facilities for the programs which their children are
involved in and would they support a bond issue and at what point in the
future? Is that Z years away? 5 years away? Should we not even be
considering development in the next 5 years or should we be considering it
on a pretty rapid time schedule meaning planning for the next couple of
years.
,-.
Robinson: What are the chances for a grant Todd? You say it's currently
being investigated.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 4
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Hoffman: As I stated, fairly minimal. If you don't have water access or
you're not providing a new access to a lake or a river or stream, your
points, they base them pn points and you score very few points for atheltic
facilities. Ball fields.
Schroers: If I remember correctly, when we were originally working with
Bandimere, we were identifying it as a youth area and mostly targeted to
the younger, from Babe Ruth and under. To my knowledge the facility that
we have at Lake Susan right now is more catering to that Babe Ruth type age
group and the older kids so as far as I'm concerned, or my opinion would be
that we need this facility as much now as we did in the beginning and that
the residents of children in the age groups that would be using it are
probably who we are going to have to target to get support on a bond issue.
I guess my opinion is that it's something that we need at this point in
time. The sooner that we can move on it the better. I think that it's
almost impossible to say how long these governmental budget restraints are
going to be in effect but it's not just here in Chanhassen, it's
everywhere. I think that what we need to do is identify projects that are
already in progress and then check what funding is available and finish
what we've got going before we start other thinss that we can just get
started and not finish. Because if the economy continues, you can
conceiveably get a whole lot of things, a few things started and nothing
finished. But do we want to start in order and go ahead.
Andrews: I have nothing to base this on other than a gut feel but I guess ~
I would say that we need to have this thing on line probably 5 to 7 years
out the way we're developing on the south side. Maybe just a little bit
sooner than that but the way I see it, I'd like to see the property
cleared. I'd like to see the old, has the farm house been removed? It's
still there isn't it?
Hoffman: All the buildings have been removed. The farmhouse still remains
a~d is being used by the Fire Department for training.
Andrews: It'd be nice to get that out of the way in the next year and
I guess as far as a master plan, if we can get the rough grade done, I
think another impottant thing since this is likely to be a bond issue or a
larger community investment, would be to perhaps look at sort of a
coordinated informational campaign and our local paper, whatever talking
about the Bandimere Park. Here's what our plan is. Here's when it's going
to be needed and this is something we're going to have to sell the citizens
on. It's not a very good time to sell our citizens on any additional taxes
in my opinion. So I guess I look at this as something that would be very
far out on our 5 year plan. Perhaps a bit beyond.
Pemrick: I guess I basically agree with what Jim said. I do feel that
when we get to that point in 2 or 3 years, it should be put before the
public to see just what is wanted on the end of the homeowners.
Robinson: I would agree that 5 to 7 years is a reasonable length of time.
You know $400,000.00 is a lot of money but we've shelled out $200,000.00 up
front and we're getting a $1,200.00 'return on that every year so it's
sitting there but I guess I agree that we probably won't really see a real ...."""
need for it until 5 to 7 years. I don't know if we take it to the people
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 5
at that time or even to set $50,000.00 to $60,000.00 a year aside but
that's still a lot of money but maybe we should consider going that way.
Hoffman: The Commission had talked previously about setting aside money
each year. Bank rolling it.
Schroers: I think bank rolling it is a good idea but I think it's going to
be difficult because there's always going to be many pressing things that
we're going to need funding for. But if we can specifically budget for
that, hopefully it would work. I don't think it makes any sense at this
point, if we're talking 5 or 7 years down the route to be looking
realistically or even wasting time on concept plans.
Erhart: What fund does the rent money go to that Klingelhutz is paying to
rent the land?
Hoffman: Into 410. Park acquisition and development.
Erhart: Okay.
Koubsky: Is that land currently in agricultural use?
,...
Hoffman: Yes.
Koubsky: So the $1,200.00 is rent for is agricultural. I guess I'd hate
to see if we're going to, right now it's being used for something. You know
somebody's making a living on it. We're not making much return but there
is somebody making a living on the land and I guess if it is 5 to 7 years,
I agree that probably the master plan would change by then~ We're kind of
probably have to do rearchitecture or restudy of that and maybe if we set
money aside it would be for architectural fees so when we decide to develop
the area or present a bond issue, that at that time we have some money to
put a plan together to present to the public. I think $200,000.00 was a
lot of money but I think once that Highway 2i2 is in, it's going to be a
heck of a bargain.
Hoffman: It was a bargain. 30 acres for $200,000.00.
Koubsky: I think as population develops, that's going to show us how we
need to develop it. If it's still going to be a youth orientated park or
more Legion activity but I don't think I have a fore sight into that right
now. But I would be for putting money away for a new plan when we
determine that's needed.
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Lash: I guess I would want Todd to give me more information as to the
trends in what's happening as far as the useage of the facilities that we
have right now and find out if we're looking back over say the last 5
years, the percentage of growth in the programs and maybe would give us
more of an educated guess as to right now we're picking 5 to 7 years, I
have nothing to base that on. I have no idea when we're going to need it.
It might be 2 years. It might be 15 years. I have no idea. I have
nothing to base it on and I think we need to look at maybe some past
trends. That's about the only thing you can. base it on is looking at past
growth patterns and if we get a 1,000 housing permits a year, how does that
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 6
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affect our youth programs or our adult programs? Maybe that would give us
a lit~le bit better guess of it and a time. I would hate to say well let's
start putting $50,000.00 a year because in 7 years we'd have enough to do
it ourselves. Maybe we'll need it in 2 years. Maybe we'll never need it.
We just have no way of knowing. But I think too, before we'd ever go to a
bond referendum, if we think it's a priority for.us to develop that by
starting to bankroll it, that does send a message to the public that we've
seen the need coming. We've tried to prepare. We're not just throwing it
all in their lap and if it does fail, there we sit and we have to start all
ove~ again from scratch. At least we'd be a little prepared if we tried to
set a reasonable amount. I think it's frustrating when we have a small
budget to start with to take a third of it away and put it away for a
future use. Maybe we don't need to do that much but come up with a
reasonable amount.
Andrews: I wanted to comment that if we're thinking 5 to 7 years, that
that probably means that we need to have a concept plan in 3 years so we
can propose the bond issue in the fourth year so we can build in the fifth
year so it grows over and fills in in the sixth year so we can use it the
seventh year. So we're really not, it's not like we're going to sit and do
nothing for 5 years. We really have to think about that.
Lash: And we have to think of all the other needs. We've got people who
want to have trails and the only way we're going to end up with any kind of
a trail system is probably through a referendum. And we've been trying to ~
get money out west by Lake Minnewashta for a park. If it ends up coming
down to another, was that a few years ago when we sort of had a bulk
referendum there for all kinds of things. Maybe in a few years we may have
to look at something like that. Let the voters pick which things we need
the most.
Hoffman: The last one that went through was the purchase of land in
southern Chanhassen, the park property. Lake Ann expansion and then the
trail system. The trail system failed but the expansion of Lake Ann and
the purchase went through. There's been some pretty hefty bond issues
passed of late in the Park and Recreation area in the metropolitan area.
Eden Prairie has had some difficulty but...of millions in their bond issues
for golf courses and those types of things so $400,000.00 is a considerably
amount of money but as far as bond issues go in the metropolitan area, it's
a smaller issue but there are a combination of factors. Jan brought up the
trail plan. The additional lighting of ballfields at Lake Ann or at Lake
Susan. Land acquisition again with the MUSA line being expanded...other
land for the city. So it probably would not be a single issue that the
city would be looking to. To respond back to your question, the trends and
the future need. It's a complicated issue because of the fact that youth
activities and youth offerings are a complicated network. Who offers what
and who knows who has which registration numbers and we could start taking
a look at that. Getting into registration numbers for the athletic
associations. Not only Chanhassen but then there's South Tonka Baseball
Association and Legion Baseball and Babe Ruth and those types of things.
The Commission has responded to requests. Field No.2 being changed from a
softball field to a Little League field in response to increased pressure
from those youth activity folks out there saying we've gone long enough in ~
the city of Chanhassen without having youth athletic fields for oUr youth
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Pa,k and Rec Commission Meeting
Decembe, 10, 1991 - Page 7
to pa,ticipate and play in spo,ts activities on so an adult softball field
was pulled at Lake Ann and put into a Little League field. That will, in
my estimation that's noi p,oviding an ove,ly abundance of Little League
fields in a city of 12,000 people. One modified Little League field so my
fi,st ,eaction is a youth complex which would include additional Little
League fields, additional youth socce, fields, gi,ls softball fields is
something that is needed. Youth spo,ts do not get the ,eaction back.
Theil voice is not hea,d as 'st,ongly as adult activities. Obviously we
know that so the Commission is se,ving as a sounding board of what we
really feel. The future demographics show that the people moving into
Chanhassen are younger. Their families are, our persons per .household is
higher than most othe, subu,bs so we're a young growing community. So the
percentage of youth in the city is only going to increase.
Lash: The othe, thing that I think we need to look at, if and when the day
comes when we want to tackle something like that, I think it'd be a tough
sell if we haven't developed Bandime,e yet to come with another ,efe,endum
and say we want to get more money because we're short on park space and we
want to buy pa,k prope,ty out west and then we're sitting with 30 ac,es
that's undeveloped down south. I think it'd be ha,d to convince people
that we're ,unning short. If we think we need to have property out west,
it's going to be down the line afte, we've developed everything we have
before people a,e going to go fo, that. I know that they know we're
,.... looking at a ,efe'rendum next year already from the School District so
that's tough. We sort of have to pace ourselves when it 9an be.
Sch,oe,s: I think one thing we could do on this capital improvement plan
here is to p,ioritize the pa,ks. What park we think we would like to give
attention to first and I've been going through he,e and I think there
definitely is more of a need to develop Bandime,e than to try and do
something with Bluff Creek. On the other hand, City Cente, Park already
has i numbe, of facilities and ,eally isn't that far f,om being where we
want it. I guess my inclination would be to focus on City Center Pa,k and
the existing pa,ks like Lake Ann that we have ongoing things taking place
and attack those things. Get them done so we can move on to Bandimere.
Andrews: I'd like to see us put something like in 1994-95 to do a new plan
for Bandimere.
Robinson: I think what we should do is like Jan said. Get some data and
look at the trends and do a ,eal educated guess on when it's going to be
needed and then li ke Jim said, because it does. It takes a long time. I
mean you might be 3-4 years and lay that out and you've got a written plan
to go by because there's a number of things that have to be done 3 or 4
years eve, befo,e you eve, use it.
Hoffman: It's an excellent idea also to educate your public a couple years
in advance. If you drop something like this in their laps and they've
totally forgot they bought a piece of land 4 years ago and now they have to
pay to develop it.
,....
Robinson: I was just thinking, I wonder how many people even know that
we've got 30 acres of pa,kland down there.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 8
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Hoffman: Very few.
Robinson: I bet they don't.
Andrews: Well that surveyor whatever you want to call it, is something
that can be done in 1992. I think that you're right that we have to
communicate quantitatively what our needs are. You can't just say we think
it'd be a nice idea to have 6 more ballfields. You've got to.say we'~e at
capacity or we're going to be at capacity. We've got the demand. We've
got the growth and in our wisdom and foresight, we've got the land but we
don't have the money to develop it. I think the logical step would be to
first accumulate that data first and then I think we would need to do a new
Comp Plan for this one. So I don't know if we need to budget money to
accumulate debt or if that's something that's done with staff time but I
think we're going to need a first class job on this if we've ever going to
put it through. It can't be a guess and a wish. It's going to take a
detailed, quantitative plan.
Lash: People have to start feeling the pinch. Feeling the pain a little
bit before they're going to start popping with the bucks to get these
things and until they are playing...or whatever it takes for them to want
to reach in their wallet and pullout a little bit of money to pay for this
stuff, they have to feel it.
Andrews: As all the houses go in down south there that are already ~
scheduled to go in plus the new ones that will be, I think the interest as
well as the urgency will help us. And we can hope maybe that some of the
pace of development could pick up as well which might help us some in the
cash flow standpoint. I think for us to set aside any meaningful amount of
money is not possible. I mean if we set aside $30,000.00 or $40,000.00 a
year, we might as well turn out the lights on the rest of the system. It
will be done. I guess I'd like to see a small amount set aside for the
development of the plan and perhaps for a bonding campaign but I think
that's about as much as we can take away from the,rest of our budget.
Lash: Have we, we have in the past been trying to bankroll for Minnewashta
haven't we?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: Did we end up using that for something else? Do'we still have that?
How much is in that fund do you know?
Hoffman: $100,000.00. Land acquisition west of Lake Minnewashta.
Lash: And are we continuing to add to that? Or are we just sitting with
that?
Andrews: That will buy about an acre.
Hoffman: Out there yeah. In fact the City Manager and I had a
conversation today on land acquisition or purchase west of Lake Minnewashta
and that we should pick up our discussions at least with the landowners out ....."
there. These folks are being approached by developers, by the City and
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Par k and Rec Commission Meeti ng
December 10, 1991 - Page 9
ghost plats of houses over their property. There's a lot of activity in
that neighborhood out there. We need to keep our senses sharp so we can
move in at the right point and either negotiate for purchase or acquisition
through development or probably both.
Schroers: I was at a party in the west Minnewashta neighborhood last
weekend and I heard several ti~es that they feel slighted. That they don't
have parks and the trails and they don't even have a safe way to get to the
small park that we have at Minnewashta Heights. Is that where it is
Minnewashta Heights? So there is a lot of concern in that area that they
are paying an awful lot of money in taxes and really aren't getting the
amenities that the rest of the people in the city are.
Hoffman: The concern really came out during the Minnewashta Parkway
discussion and as long as you're venting your anger, where the heck is our
park out here west of Lake Minnewashta?
Lash: But wasn't there a lot of opposition to the trail along Minnewashta
Parkway?
Hoffman: There was some oppositjon but there was an underlying support for
it.
~ Lash: The way I got it from the paper, it sounded like more people were
opposed to it and I don't know if they really were opposed to it or they
were just opposed to having to pay assessments for some of it. That was
probably the real problem there but I was really surprised when I read some
of those articles because to the best of recollection I thought they had
petitioned to have a trail along Minnewashta Parkway and then all of a
sudden it's going to go in and the fur starts to fly.
Hoffman: I'm comfortable with Bandimere Larry. Bluff Creek Park. Again
it's more or less a land holding.. Obviously you're not going to develop
that into an active park site. At some point in the future it will
probably be a piece of the much larger Bluff Creek watershed holding of
some portion.
Andrews: Is there any parking or acces~ to that park at this point?
Hoffman: None whatsoever.
Andrews: Is there any logical space here to connect here for off of Hesse
Farm Road?
Hoffman: No. It's remote. But we know where it is now Curt.
Robinson: We need a sign.
Hoffman: It's remote. It's the bottom ground of that valley down there
and it's isolated on all sides by private land holdings. There's no public
,...... access.
Andrews: Great. Let's move on. There's nothing we can do with that one.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 ~ Page 10
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Erhart: We entered through the golf course out there when we went on our
tour.
Hoffman: There was an individual who wanted to sell the lot just before
you go under the overpass for about $40,000.00 I think. That would provide
an access for one lot.
Erhart: How much was that Todd?
Hoffman: $40,000.00.
Andrews: That'd be a difficult to use property. Very dangerous.
Schroers: Well we can at this point look at that as green space.
Hoffman: Moving on to Chanhassen Pond. As the Commission discussed,
Chanhassen Pond Park is very functional in it's present condition. 1992
capital improvement program does contain $1,200.00 for installation of a
park identification si~n, two picnic tables along Kerber Blvd.. The wood
duck and blue bird and Canadian goose nesting platforms were constructed as
a Boy Scout project. Those are there. The local neighborhood has recently
adopted those blue bird houses and will care for them in the future. Prior
to this area being used as a parkland, the site was used for grazing
cattle. That's led to the erdsion problems which we're correcting on an
almost annual basis within that park site. The original road which comes' .....""
in from the south on the property is one of those remaining spots where if
we don't see that corrected, that will... So as far as a master plan does
exist. The amenities shown on that master plan are basically in place as
of today and there's no large scale improvements which are necessary in
Chanhassen Pond Park. It needs continuing care in the.area of erosion.
control so we can correct those areas.
lash: last winter we kind of kicked around a sliding hill.
Schroers: Sliding hill, yeah. And I think that was part of our original
plan and discussion of chan Pond Park so that is one amenity that is not in
place at this time.
Hoffman: Well the hill's there. They're using it for sliding.
Schro~rs: They're using it on the opposite side though from the parking.
They're coming down from the east residential areas.
Hoffman: Yeah, they're ~oing both si~es. If we would like to move ahead
and designate that as a sliding hill, we really need to bring parking in
off of Kerber. The. Commission has looked.at that in the past. On street
or diagonal or pull in or pull off parking was not, for safety concerns was
not considered but there is room a16ng Kerber Blvd. there to have, to
create a parking area. If that hill were designated as a sliding hill to
provide parking to it. That would be a viable use if the Commission would
choose'to look at that at some point in the future...
Schroers: Well I think that as a community park we maybe should have a ~
designated sliding area. The residents who live there are going to slide
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 11
wherever they want. The kids are going to go out there with the sleds and
go allover the place but fo, people who don't live there and they want to
slide, they won't feel comfortable going through someone else's yard to go
sliding.
Lash: You don't think it's possible to just have parking, on street
parking right along there?
Hoffman: The traffic pattern, it's a major collector, Kerber Blvd. ...
Schroers: Not diagonal but they park parallel along he,e for City Center
Park. What's the difference?
,....,
Hoffman: You',e correct. They do it. It's just not the best solution.
If we want to advertise a sliding hill, I think we'd be responsible to go
ahead and advertise on street pa,king fo, the sliding hill. Those of you
~ho have experience with community sliding hills in any other communities,
that can generate some considerable amount of traffic and I'm not even
saying for sure that a 12 or 14 or 16 parking lot off of Kerber would do a
sufficient job for a community sliding hill. These things a,e very popular
and you can generate...lights on the hill, a couple hundred people per
evening. Power Hill Pa,k is also being looked at as a community sliding
hill. So those are the two sites and each winter we do get calls on it and
in the parks and recreational system, a sliding hill is really basic so I
think it's in our interest to provide one but you also need the parking and
lighting if there is any that goes along with it.
Schroers: Is parking something that would be more reasonable to pursue at
Power Hill?
Hoffman: There's parking, I believe it's a 8 or 12 car stall parking lot
slated in the master plan for development at Power Hill Park.
Schroers: Yeah but in propo,tion to where the sliding area would be, is it
a workable situation?
Hoffman: At Power Hill?
Schroers: Yes.
Hoffman: Sure. The parking lot comes right at the top of the hill.
Lash: I can't imagine it would be real popular with the people over by
Chan Pond if we start sticking up a bunch of big lights up.
Schroe,s: Yeah, if we already have a parking lot going in place at, Power
Hill and if the area would accommodate a nice sliding hill, we should just
scratch it from Pond Pa,k.
1"""
Andrews: I agree. I think you're going to get a neighborhood...if you
designate that as a sliding hill. Like Todd said, that gene,ates a
tremendous amount of traffic. I lived in an area over in St. Paul that I
wouldn't even call it a designated park, 0, sliding hill but it was a well,
known hill and they had a plowed parking lot and that place was packed up
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 12
....."
every night. I mean it was very, very busy. My guess is if it was the
sliding hill, that it would be very easy to get 30 or 40 cars there on a
nice night. I'm not sure existing neighbors would appreciate that.
However, if we start with a new park and a new neighborhood and it starts
out that way, then there's none of this surprise. Look what we brought to
you. A new park service that you didn't ask us to do.
Lash: I guess when I, and maybe I'm really naive about this but I guess
what I had envisioned was just that kids that lived around there could walk
over there with their sleds and slide down the hill.
Andrews: My guess is they're doing that already.
Lash: Okay. I just wasn't visualizing that people would be driving from
al1 over the city 00er there to slide down that hill.
Andrews: Like over at Starring Lake I know they just pack them in over
there for sliding.
Lash: But that's because there's parking. If we didn't have that there,
it would just probably be.
Andrews: Well if it's a good hill, if it becomes known as a good hill,
you'll get the people. They'll come.
....."
Erhart: Yeah, and if we're advertising it as a sliding hill for the
community that it's going to draw more attention to it too.
Schroers:
you doing?
par k?
And then the first thin~ they're going to do is say, what are
You're advertising a sliding hill and where are we supposed to
Hoffman: We're in a position where scale back the parking lot because of
neighborhood concerns, because of potential concerns, then they end up
parking on the street. It's .only gqing to make it worse for you so if
you're going to provide the facility, you need to provide the amenities
that go along with it and then try to head off the problem...down in
Chanhassen Estates with the Rice Marsh Lake Park and those people have
grown accustomed to it, the months of May and June when the Athletic
Association is down there, the .cul-de-sac fills with cars... That's a
tradition~l use and they've grown accustomed to it. So Jim's comments
are...
Schroers: So basically we can be happy with Chan Pond Park as it currently
exists? With the erosion control continuing but other than that, as far as
development and the 5 year capital improvement, we really aren't looking
for much.
Koubsky: Just maintenance.
Schroers: Yeah. Just existing maintenance and keeping that trail mowed.
The turf trail and keeping it as more or less a passive park. Can we move
on to, does anyone have anything else 9n than Pond? Let's move on to City ~
Center.
II""-
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 13
Hoffman: City Center.
Schroers: I've been looking at our amenities here. Go ahead Todd.
Hoffman: City Center, I did not prepare any comments for simply because we
are at a point where we're in limbo between what's going to occur with the
central parkland and where that is headed with the Housing and
Redevelopment Authority and public comment is still being taken on that
proposed park plan. If it became a reality, then we would begin
negotiations or juggling of useage and different types of useage and the
space alloted for those types of things. The parking and the play area
would be displaced north of City Hall potentially. We would be looking for
acquisition of the vacant property to the north of City Center Park. We
need to continue to keep our relations open with District #112 since they
are a major player in that. Any land north of...house they currently own
at this time. That whole block of land there so the city has developed it
in harmony with the School District over the past 15-25 years. Whatever it
would be. We need to keep our sights set in that...as well but until we
find out what happens with the Central Park, planning a 5 year capital
improvement program is moot. However we do have the recently prepared
master plan concept. Concept 1 and 2 to rely on or to fall back on at some
point in the future when they do know which direction we're headed on City
Center Pal- k .
",.....
Koubsky: Just one thought I had Todd, especially as you brought up the
need for the Little League fields. In City Center, are these all adult
fields on the master plans?
Hoffman: No. They're sized for youth activities. City Center is currently
used for Atheltic Association sports programs and then the adult softball
teams does use City Center for practice but those are all youth fields.
The amount of use they receive right now is astounding. Unfortunately ball
fields and recreational facilities have a very short time frame. If they
were used every hour out of the day we could get by with 1 where we need 6
or 8 or 10 but they're used for a 2 hour time span each evening during a
month or two month or 4 month time period.
Schroers: The problem ~ith these fields here at City Center Park is that
they do not meet requirements for sanctioned league events.
Hoffman: And the outfields overlap. Crisscross. They're laid out poorly.
Lash: There's a lot of wasted space.
Robinson: Is there a difference between, we talked of Bandimere about two
girls softball fields. Is there a difference between girls and guys
softball fields?
Hoffman: Girls would be youth softball fields. Yeah, so they're smaller.
Probably a fence line of 180.
"..,.
Lash: But are the girls different than the boys?
Hoffman: BOYS softball?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 14
....""
Lash: Yeah. Isn't that what you're asking Curt?
Robinson: Well yeah. I don't think there, is there boys softball?
Hoffman: No.
Lash: So girls play softball on one of these fields at City Center?
Hoffman: Here?
Lash: Yeah.
Hoffman: Curre~tly the girls softball program uses the two fields .at
Meadow Green so that's their home fields. Those are large enough to
accommodate them. The fields at City Center Park would not be large enough
to accommodate girls softball. They're playing fast pitch. They have a
fence distance of about 180. Something like that. About 100 feet shorter
than the ones would be at Lake Ann.
Robinson: I see.
Lash: So the ones you have in the new plans for City Center still would
not work for girls?
Hoffman: For girls fast pitch softball, no.
-'
Schroers: So should we go onto Lake Ann then?
Hoffman: Sure. The opportunities for addltional improvements at Lake Ann
are plentiful. Three which stand out are the construction ofa large
picnic shelter at the Park View Picnic Site. Up on top of the hill.
Construction of a restroom, concession, storage building at the location of
the present ballfield concession building. It seems like we just got that
one done and now we're looking to include restrooms. Then the purchase or
lease of additional property to the east through a negotiation 6f some type
with Eckankar. With the major improvements projects impending and recently
completed at Lake Ann, it may not be appropriate to consider these projects
in the near future, with the exception of the land acquisition negotiations
which should always be ongoing. At least to keep ears and eyes open on
what's going on in land uses adjacent to Lake Ann Park. The other items
would probably be best placed in the far end of the 5 year plan or even
beyond.
Andrews: I agree that we should maintain continuous contact with Eckankar
for any opportunity to buy or lease land. It's absolutely the best piece
of land in the whole city for potential park use in my opinion, so it's a
high priority.
Lash: I don't know that I'd be interested in leasing it...
Andrews: You could lease it for long term though. If you could get a 10
year lease, that's certainly, or 15 year lease, that's certainly adequate
for us to develop a piece of property for a ballfield or somethi ng 11 ke ....,.,
that. Or even just use it for picnic area and just let people picnic on it.
,...
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 15
Robinson: I think we should keep negotiating to see if we can get
something for nothing there but boy, we just talked about the funds we need
for out at Bandimere where we've got a piece of property already that we
can't afford to develop.
Erhart: That's outside the MUSA line too.
Andrews: They may be in a position though if we offer to lease it at a low
rate and maintain it, they might be willing to let it be used as open space
or something like that. It certainly establishes a relationship that in
the future may make it that much easier to purchase and if you've had an
ongoing relationship, they'll probably come to you first if they really do
want to sell it. I just think we need to be first in line if that happens.
Lash: There again it may be wise for us just to keep a handle on the
trends of the growth and if you're really feeling,the crunch with the adult
facilities and you see it coming.
,.....
Hoffman: Yeah. With the future growth in Chanhassen and when the city is
maxed out to it's potential, Lake Ann is a community park at that time
would seem nice but it certainly could be larger and the history of land
acquisition of Lake Ann has been it start~d with the initial acquisition on
the highway and a piece down on the lake and then items or parcels J and
K so it's been piecemealed together in about 6 different parcels over the
years and it's coming along to be a nice piece of property. The land to
the east, that Eckankar piece is, in order to makeballfields OT soccer
fields or what have you, would need minimal work as far as grading and that
type of thing. Obviously Eckankar is a little bit tentative with the
welcome that they received here, to allow people back onto that piece of
property. However those barriers have come down quite a bit since they
moved into the city. They are much more receptive to allowing us to
discuss potential options with them.
Lash: You once Bandimere is done, then we'd be able to pull the Little
League and what's the other field designated. Then those could go back to
adult useage and...
Robinson: Todd, how did we ever and when did we ever get Lake Ann Park?
Hoffman: Lake Ann. Acquisition started 20 years ago. 1971. And land
acquisitions were partly through, it may have been general funds or park
funds and then LAWCONgrants. Land acquisition grants. Bond issues. So
it's been, 1971 was the major purchase and then pieces have been acquired
up to as recently as 4 or 5 yeats ago.
Lash: I think we talked to Conrad Fisk...
Erhart: He was on the Park and Rec Commission.
Lash: ...when that happened.
11""'-
Robinson: Oh is that right?
Erhart: Yeah. That's 20 years.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 16
....."
Robinson: Boy. That~s what somebody's going to say 20 years from now
about Bandimere.
Schroers: Park and Rec people can take turns standing on the corner out
there selling watermelon.
Erhart: You know what's funny about it though when Conrad was on 20 years
ago, he was met with the same type of opposition that we are today and they
were wondering if they were making the right decision and now we look back
and say boy, we're glad they purchased that.
Andrews: Is the community park shelter~ I hate to sound, I can't remember
if it's on again, off again but is that on a full go, full hold or wait and
see or?
Hoffman: The shelter building?
Andrews: Yeah.
Hoffman: It will come back to the Council with a new package fOT
authorization to bid the project in January and then we'll rebid and
hopefully have construction in time of...
Koubsky: I think the Council was just looking for a better price on a
rebid weren't they? ....".
Hoffman: Yes. The project, some changes have been made to the project
specifications and material...but the building is essentially the same.
Andrews: So it's likely that's going to happen next summer? Okay.
Lash: So you'll be looking at a completion like?
Hoffman: Late. It will not be, majo~ completion will not be available for
the summer swimming season.
Lash: So no grand opening 4th of July?
Hoffman: That'd be nice but probably not.
.
Schroers: Okay. Is there anything else that we want to discuss on Lake
Ann?
Hoffman: Again, like an item such as the picnic shelter, that can be a
capital improvement program. That's affordable. It's certainly a big
project and..~venture a p~ice tag at this time but if money was set aside
for 2 years, that could be successfully completed. Constructing that
building, a bathroom, restroom facility, concession area up at the
ballfields so you can facilities at the ballfield instead of using portable
Satellites and that type of thing, is more in the line of the shelter
that's. being built down at the lake for a couple hundred thousand dollars.
That may be included as part of a bond issue or maybe if the bankroll
becomes sufficient as it was in this case, park acquisition and development ...""
could build that structure as well. But those are things which certainly
,....
Park and Rec commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 17
are provided in other communities. Many softball complexes are not using
portable toilets. They have modern facilities and we'd be short sighted to
think that folks in Chanhassen aren't going to look to that type of
improvement at some point in the future as well.
Andrews: They're planning to stub that-t6 the service for the rest?
Hoffman: Utilities will be right there. Water, electricity, phone so that
cost is in. It wou19 be the cost of the building...
Andrews: I guess I feel like those things should be put onto our 5 year
plan. That in particular because that would be a logical next step after
the park shelter.
Schroers: I was even wondering if to somehow incorporate that in with, not
with the shelter itself but sort of in the same timeframe so that the park
is not continually under construction.
Andrews: Like you say, if you're going to rip up the field, do it once
instead of twice.
Schroers: Exactly.
,-..> Lash: We don't have money to do that.
Andrews: We can wish can't we?
Hoffman: The major disruption is obviously going to be with the utilities.
If you want to plop in, take the structure which currently exists there,
move it to Lake Susan and make use of it in some other park site and build
a park structure, it would certainly cause some commotion in that one
particular location but the disruption wouldn't be so great that you could
not use the ballfields in that particular area.
Lash: Which do you think would be the most beneficial? The facility up by
the ballfields or a large picnic aTea? The shelter north of the
ball field. . .
Hoffman: The restrooms would obviously come first. Both would be very
nice.
Schroers: If you build just a basic structure with a slab and all you're
talking about is a roof with a slab, you should be able to do it for around
$25,000.00.
Hoffman: Yeah. Or a little bit more maybe. I mean these are facilities
which.
Lash:" Is that with restrooms?
,......
Schroers: No.
Hoffman: No. Just a slab picnic shelter.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 18
...",.
Schroers: Cement floor with a roof over it and that's it.
Lash: But that's not what you're talking about.
Hoffman: That would be the picnic shelter but the other one no. Is a
building. You hate to start comparing the city of Chanhassen to other
communities but when you pass through or if you're familiar with other
communities, these are basic types of facilities which city park systems
have. Take a trip just through Chaska and their ballfield complex is half
water, picnic shelter, bathrooms which are there available for your use.
An area which is available for picnicing... These are basic services that
Chanhassen has just not installed in our park system to date.
Lash: So what kind of money would you be talking for some kind of facility
with the restrooms?
Hoffman: At the ballfields? Something comparable but probably less
because you can get by with. The roof style of the shelter down at the
beach has added to that cost of that particular shelter. Just use the
gabled roof system and standard architectural design. $150,000.00 to
$200,000.00 would probably be sufficient to build that type of building.
Lash: So maybe that's another thing we can do...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion,)
-'
Lash: How else can we do it?
Hoffman: Bonding.
Koubsky: Looking at bonding. I think we have to identify these needs and
go at some point with a plan on we need these things. Other communities
have them. Where I'm from, every hockey rink had a permanent structure.
The only thing that was used for was for 2 months out of the year it was
used for hockey. It had a permanent structure. $150,000.00 permanent
structure. Running water. Heat. They had parks that were, just had a
little play area and one ballfield. Had a permanent structure. Had Water,
heat and electricity. We don't have any of that. Well, eventually we'll
have to get into that. .
Lash: You have to remember this is chan.
Koubsky: New Brighton is stockyard. It's stockyard town.
Erhart: What's the population?
Koubsky: 26,000. Roseville. Big hockey town.
Schroers: Things are a little bit different now. Back when things like
that were being done, community organizations like Fire Departments or the
Jaycees or the Lion's or something like that would just go ahead and do
that. They would go and do it and it wouldn't have to necessarily go
through a pol i tical system or half of the people that were on the Fire ....",l
Department and the Jaycees and that were also on the City Council and were
)
,.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 19
able to incorporate and do things like that. But I think it's a lot more
difficult now. We don't have.
Andrews: The bonding environment was a little bit better than it is now.
I think the only way we're going to get it done is with a bond and I don't
see that happening soon.
Hoffman: But you compare the bonding amounts for these types of projects
with the School Bond and we are talking considerably less but again it's a
matter of priorities for each individual person as they look at school
versus park and recreation.
Lash: And if you look at New Brighton and they've got a heated facility at
every hockey rink, I don't even know if that is really basic or necessary.
Sometimes kind of a luxury.
Koubsky: Yeah it might be a luxury bui also they're more mature
neighborhoods. You know the kids have grown up and I think we're going to
see that need in this community as the kids grow up. We have a need for
Little League youth area. We can't supply our youth sporting facilities
and now we say it's going to take 3 to 5 years to even get them ballfields.
Well that means my son who's 5, when he's 10 he might get some ballfields.
He's missed that.
,...
Erhart: I think the problem is we're a young community that's just all of
a sudden started growing so fast and we're caught with all these things
that we need or we want. It wasn't that many years ago that Chanhassen was
almost a little ghost town.
Koubsky: .And now it's full of babies. And those babies are going to be
involved in youth activities.
Erhart: That's right and we're feeling the pain right now.
Lash: We have to sort of look at that and think, what's more important?
Being able to have just the basic ballfield~ for the kids and for the
adults or is it having a ballfield with indoor plumbing?
Robinson: That's right.
Lash: Sure it'd be nice to have regulare bathrooms. I'd be all for that.
I'd love to have a regular bathroom instead of a Satellite but if it means
we're going to be short on ballfields, or short on some of the things, it's
really basic things that we have to start with.
Andrews: I think if you asked the ball teams which would you rather have,
indoor plumbing or 4 more ballfields, I don't think there'd be any decision
to make. I think they'd take the ballfields every time.
r
Hoffman: Can you wrap all those comments up on Lake Ann? What's the
consensus Larry?
Schroers: I think the consensus on Lake Ann is very similar to the
previous concensus. We would love to be able to expand Lake Ann. We would
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 20
...,.,
like to have the picnic shelter but in order of priorities, considering
what Lake Ann already has, I would agree that the full service facilities,
the bathrooms and that, would or should come before the picnic shelter.
Andrews: One thing I'd like to point out,we're talking about 2/3 of the
cost of developing Bandimere to put in facilities. That to me is
ridiculous.
Hoffman: I agree.
Lash: The picnic area with the large shelter would cost considerably less
and you do then have the rental potential don't you? So that is a revenue
generater and can pay for itself ultimat~ly.
Hoffman: Probably a worse return than Bandimere.
Andrews: It will never pay for the cost of the money you spent to put up
the shelter. I mean you can't look at it that way.
Schroers: And the additional cost of maintaining an area like that. I mean
if you're developing a picnic area, then you're going to have additional
mowing and additional clean up and certainly that, the rental fee wouldn't
make up that difference. I think the concensus on Lake Ann right now is
that we would like to have all these things but we don't have the money to
do it and we're just pretty much on hold and hope that we get the shelter .....",
at the lake.
Andrews: My feeling is that Lake Ann would be sort of in a status quo
basis and if we are going to get into major development, I feel it should
go into Bandimere. We have a southern area of the city which has very
little major facility available. To me it would be hard to justify what
$200,000.00-$300,000.00 more into this park when Bandimere sits there
totally undeveloped. I think that's, it's a dilemma that we have as to
where's our money better spent but I guess in the long range plan, I would
see Lake Ann further out than Bandimere.
Schroers: That's exactly what. I was getting at earlier when I was talking
about prioritizing the parks and identifying our need and I agree with what
Jim is saying that once ou~ beach building, concession and with the picnic
shelter and all that is in place, that we could live with that at Lake Ann
for a while. If the opportunity to acquire additional property were to
present itself at Lake Ann, I think that's something that we would need to
consider at that point in time and hopefully be able to respond in some
kind of a positive manner there. But I feel that getting that youth
complex in at Bandimere is more desireable than putting in flush toilets at
Lake Ann. Or a second picnic shelter at Lake Ann.
Hoffman: Sure. And then the question presents itself as well, if
Bandimere is developed, do you want utilities and a restroom at 8andimere
or are you going to start off with the portable services as well? That
$400,000.00 can easily jump to $600,000.00 in a blink'of an eye.
Lash: And you know when you think about the $400,000.00, we've been .....",
kicking around $400,000.00 to develop that for the last 3 or 4 years. We
"
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 21
are maybe way under our projections for that even or when we actually do
start it will be.
Hoffman: Yeah it was increased. The original estimate on that plan was
about $250,000.00 to $300,000.00. When the concept plan was developed to
take a look at if that piece of property was purchased, how could it be
used. So that's been increased to $400,000.00 as a consel"vative estimate
and that's just for ballfield grading and seeding and backstops and fences.
Schroers: We would be short sighted to say the least if we didn't at least
plan for modern facilities there and have them stubbed in with the original
construction. If we couldn't afford it all at once, we would at least like
to have it serviceable so that at some point in time we could finish it.
But does that pretty much sum up where we are with Lake Ann right now?
That's also kind of what we were speaking about earlier. Let's just finish
the ongoing things before we dive into something new.
Hoffman: Okay. Lake Susan. Here again a major investment in park
development is in the final stages of being completed. Adding additional
playfields or other large park amenities on this site are restricted by the
park size. By it's current, size. The addition of lights for the various
play fields in the park is one capital improvement which may be considered
in the future. I believe the present level of service offered at Lake
.~ Susan with that one exception will satisfy park users for a period of time
much greater than 5 years.
Schroers: I agree. Are there any other concerns?
Lash: In the next 5 years are we going to try to budget for lights?
Hoffman: Either budget for lights or,I really think we're, the City is
looking at some point in the future for a bond issue and whether that
includes Bandimere. Development of Bandimere and then you take on lighting
of the additional 1 or 2 ballfields at Lake Ann and the ballfield at Lake
Susan or if we would instead of doing that drain our 410 fund. Lighting
that ballfield would take $60,000.00. It can be accomplished under 410 but
if it's tucked into a bond issue, it can be accomplished with much less
pain to the 410 budget.
Andrews: These dollar figures just blow me away. I'm just thinking here
as you're saying $60,000.00. Let's just put the money in the bank and
we'll pay interest to the teams and offer to pay them off not to play.
Forfeit your game. We'll pay you the money.
Hoffman: Again that's why my comment of the numbers are somewhat
overwhelming but again just look what we've done in the past 2 or 3 years.
The $350,000.00 at Lake Susan. $350,000.00 at Lake Ann. $200,000.00
purchase at Bandimere. $150,000.00 purchase at Pheasant Hills so the
numbers are lqrge but again, if we don't.. .look into the future, we
actually end up where we are today in 5 years.
"'"
Andrews: I think you mention those dollar figures, I think it's vitally
important that we keep our citizens advised how much ~oney we have spent
because if we're going to come in with a bond issue, we've got to say hey
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 22
......"
look. We have spent a ton of money. If we need to go somewhere from here,
we need more money. Here again, I think. if you went to the average citizen
and said how much do you think your Park Board spent in the city of
Chanhassen last year, boy they wouldn't have the wilqest idea.
Erhart: They also think we have so much more money than we do too.
Lash: Well they have no idea where the money comes from. They have no
idea... They don't have a clue as to how any of this works so.
Hoffman: Curt can probably offer some insight in where you go in 6 years.
Where we were 6 years ago CUTt and where the city's parks are today. The
time probably went by really quickly.
Robinson: Yeah. And a lot of improvements in those years when you look at
the parks and what we had at that time. That's true.
AndTews~ We're a little pesimistic now I think because the cash flow is so
bad but if some of these commercial developments were to sprout up along TH
5 here, we could see an incredible change in our position.
Lash: Well it's just so overwhelming when you know that you're working
with typically $150,000.00 and then every project you hear is $60,000.00 or
$~OO,OOO.OO or $400,000.00. It's so overwhelming because you Just feel
useless. That you can't do anything. .."",
Robinson: And people in here every month complaining because their park
isn't getting developed.
Hoffman: You boil it down on what our annual CIP does is buy playgrounds.
That $150,000.00 buys playground equipment and installs playground
equipment. We're doing a trail segment this year but up and beyond that,
any of the major park improvements projects aTe coming from a special
pToject ,fund or outside financing. HRA dollars. Grant dollars. Qur bond
issue monies. Once we're up and beyond our annual CIP of puttirig in
playground equipment and park benches and that type of thlng...ballgame.
Schroers: Okay well, back to Lake Susan Park then, are we all pretty much
in agreement that Lake Susan Park with all it's new improvements and as
nice as it is, we don't really need to ~onsider doing anything in the way
of capital improvement there in the next 5 years?
Koubsky: The aeration, are they going to go with that this year?
Hoffman: We applied for the grant and spent the $4,000.00 which was
budgeted for the extension of power down to the boat access so that can
occur. The g+ant application looks favorable so that will be installed in
1993.
Schroers: And that really doesn't have anything to do with the capital
improv~ment in any way right?
Hoffman: No. Agai n the 'one thi ng would be the 1 ighti ng of the field. .....",
Baseball field and/or the tennis courts and/oT the basketball field. If
"."..
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 23
you went into a lighting project of lighting tennis courts, we have two
lighted tennis courts in the city of 12,000 people which is far below a
typical norm as well.
Andrews: I think we've got to put something in there for lighting. Much
as I think it's a ridiculous amount of money to spend for lights, I think
we need to somewhere in that 5 year plan it's probably going to become a
crisis as far as that ball program goes that we provide more lighted fields
either here or at Lake Ann. I guess I'd like to see it spread out a little
bit more as far as what we can offer.
Hoffman: It doubles OT triples your useage. They'll play to 11:30 at
night or so. You get one game in how, you can get 2 or 3 in.
Andrews: I guess the way that field is set up, it'd be quite easy to light
both the ballfield and the tennis courts at the same time.
Erhart: Just $60,000.00 for lights?
Hoffman: Just on the ballfield. If you include the tennis courts, that
l<Jould be...
Koubsky: But I think part of our job is to install some sort of vision too
,..., and right now Chanhassen has one ballfield that's lit so maybe our vision
could be that we're going to double that and have 2 or maybe more.
Erhart: Within the next 5 years?
Koubsky: Within the next 5 years. It doesn't necessarily mean we have to
meet that ViSion. There's a need for it. There's a need for a lot of
things and I think part of our job is to identify the needs. Whether we
meet them or not, we rediscuss that in 5 years.
Erhart: We'll get a lot more use out of the park then. The ballfield.
Lash:
one.
Maybe we don't even necessarily want to earmark Lake Susan as the
We'd like to do another one at Lake Ann.
Koubsky: I think it's important to identify future needs and trends and
then as Larry says, identify parks that might best meet them.
Hoffman: The field at Lake Susan is really built to be a town baseball i
field. If you want to throw out numbers, the backstop is $10,000.00 for a
backstop. This field is built to accommodate bleachers and stands and if
baseball tradition wants to nutured in Chanhassen, that's the place to do
it. '
,....
Schroers: And also most town baseball fields are lighted. What I'd kind
of like to do here is try a little harder to stay on each individual item
here so we get through this. So we've already been through Lake Ann and
we're discussing Lake Susan right now so the decision is whether or not we
want to put lighting in the 5 yea. capital improvement plan for Lake Susan.
I would like to see it.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 24
....",
Andrews: I'd like to see it in there.
Hoffman: What year?
Andrews: 1995?
Schroers: I'd like to see it next year.
Koubsky: I think with that, well we have some bleachers out there don't
we.
Lash: We've already done the budget for next year.
Hoffman: Yeah, the first year to look at it would be 1993.
Schroers: 1993. That's what I meant by next year.
Andrews: That's good.
Hoffman: We're two years apart. 1993?
Andrews: That's fine. I agree. I can go with that. It's not going to
happen but we can put it down.
Lash: That's why I have a problem with things if I know it's not going to -'
happen.
Schroers: Well we don't know that it's not going to happen. We're going
to try to make it happen.
Lash: Yeah, I know.
Erhart: Let's compromise and go with 1994 then.
Andrews: 1993 is fine. If we've got the money, we can consider it. If we
don't, we can push it off to 1994.
Erhart: At least we're working towards it.' We have to have a vision. We
can't lose it just because we don't have any money now.
Schroers: Yeah, I think if we need it, we should plug it in for the
earliest possible time that we can and go to work on it. The worst we can
do is not accomplish our goal but maybe we can.
Hoffman: Moving on to South Lotus Lake. Attachment #3 shows the three
parcels which comprise South Lotus Lake. The park. The two easterly
parcel~ being the boat access ramp and the parking lot and the playfield
~rea are essentially developed at the present date. The triangle to the
far west is the piece which has been in question for a number of years. It
still continues to be in question because as you can see there the dotted
line is drawn on the base map there which indicates the new TH 101
interchange in that particular location. So the size and the shape
configuration of that piece of park property will change when that road -'
project goes through in 1992 and 1993. Finished up in the' Fall of 1992,
,.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 25
Spring of 1993. So at that point then the city can take a look at, it's
called for a tennis court on that piece of property. As long as the
remains the direction of the commission of the city, that it should be
sited or if there's other potential uses. When you drive by the site it
. looks considerably bigger but that block of property, that rectangular
piece to the west, that's a utility easement or utility property for the
well ho~ses which are constructed on the site and the piping and drain
systems and that type of thing. So this final piece of property is
actually smaller than you actually sense when you're out there driving by
but it will gain some property to the south when the road project goes
through.
Andrews: Wasn't it discussed earlier that that ballfield would not fit on
the property?
Hoffman: Yeah. That's the middle piece. The middle parcel which is the
park property there and that's been relabeled just as an open field and
developed as such.
Lash: And the soil is adequate for a tennis court?
Hoffman: Yes.
~ Lash: Boy, I think before Curt leaves tonight we should put tennis court
in the budget.
Robinson: See that little triangle to the west, that's where 5 years ago
we would put the 2 tennis courts in.
Andrews: And they're lighted too.
Robinson: That's right. Curt's tennis courts were going to go right in
there.
Lash: When is the road work supposed to be done? 19931'
Hoffman: Next summer. It will be done in 1993.
Lash: So it will be done in 1993. So what did we just do it for the
lights? Did we do 1993 or 1994?
Schroers: 1993 for the lights. We could maybe shoot for 1994 for the
tennis courts at South Lotus Lake.
Lash: That place has been waiting a long time for that.
Andrews: It's filling with houses too pretty quick.
Hoffman: There it is, the last 5 year capital improvement plan. '88
through '92. $25,000.00 for tennis courts in 1992 and beyond.
,...,
Andrews: 1994, tennis courts.
Hoffman: It just got pushed a little farther.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 26
...-'
Schroers: Well it was nice ~o get through that. There was a lot of
discussion but I think that we didn't get unrealistic. Hopefully we'll
accomplish something. We can go to item 4 on the agenda.
REVENUE AND aUDGET REPORT.
Hoffman: Item number 4. Prepared this commentary just in light of
reaction I heard to the budget situation in the Minutes fro~ last meeting.
I'm not going to go through this report. It's solely for your information.
Two points that I want to bring out specifically .are the impending budget
shortfall will not have any affect on our capital improvement budget for
1992. If there is a deficit, it's c~ught up with the bank account which
410 holds and will not have any affect on what we've already worked on for
1992. The second thing is the passage of the 1992 budget has occurred
so. ..it's set and established. That's obviously the 410 budget which was
proposed to the City Council. Any questions or comments? I attempted to
explain just by reading sorne of the questions on how those estimates are
prepared. What they're based on fol?" your information.. .year to year and
where these numbers come from and based on and how can we fall short. In
other years the revenues exceeded expenditures.
Koubsky: None of the cuts went to staff salary?
Hoffman~ Staff salary?
...""",
Lash: Or commission's salary.
Koubsky: Well, I've got two pops.
Lash: I still have no idea how this whole money thing works.
Robinson: That's the way it's supposed to be.
Hoffman: CIP, our annual CIP are $150,000.00 or $175,000.00 or whatever it
is is based on what anticipated revenues,are going to be. How many housing
starts. What's the economy li.ke? How's the industrial start up's looking?
Do we have. 3 or 5 or 6 or 0 large industries looking at building in
Chanhassen? That type of thing. It's a guessing game. It's fairly
accurate. We're $40,000.00 off this year but that can be made up over
night. A big industrial developer walks in your front door and says I'm
going to build in Chanhassen and you collect $30,000.00 in park and trail
fees. The Rosemounts and the Empaks and all the industrial development
which occurred 3 or 4 years ago here took the 410 fund UP into the
$600,000.00 rang~. We're spending that money now and waiting for the next
heyday to occur.
Lash: So if at one point we believed we were having a heyday and we had
$600,000.00, how come we're living with $150,000.00 budget and trying to
nickel and dime everything~ Why didn't we have lots of money that year to
spend? It seems like we always have $150,000.00.
Hoffman: It changes and it's based on those reserves go up. The reserve
was up to, that's what is allowing the Lake Ann shelter to be built. I ....."
mean that's a $250,000.00 project which is coming directly out of 410. So
"....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 27
that's a big part of the reserve which is used up.
Lash: So if we budget $150,000.00 and $500,000.00 comes in, $350,000.00
goes into reserve?
Hoffman: Into reserve.
Lash: And we really never know about that. So the next year we make a
$150,000.00 budget even though there's $350,000.00 sitting in reserve? But
that's there in case we go over budget.
Hoffman: Well yeah and you requested that I keep you more up to date on
what's going on in that fund. I'll do that and that way we'll know exactly
where it's at. We're not kicking the bottom of the barrel by any means but
with all the special projects going on and those types of things, the Lake
Ann shelter takes a big hunk right out of it.
Lash: Not to reveal my own personal spending habits or anything but if
I knew there was $350,000.00 in reserve and I was making up my budget, I
would spend $350,000.00 and I wouldn't be trying to live with $150,000.00.
Feeling frustrated because I can't do anything. You know. Can we not do
that or.
.~ Schroers: It's not that we can't do anything. That $150,000.00 is just an
estimated figure based on what we think we're going to get in dedication
fees.
Lash: I understand that but if we have $350,000.00 left over from the year
before, how come nobody tells us we have all this extra money that we could
play catch up with and do some things that we've been wanting to do but
. couldn't?
Schroers: Well because that money was earmarked.
shouldn't know about it but that money was sort of
Ann expansion and development so it wasn't like we
spend.
It's not that we
earmarked for the Lake
had $350,000.00 to
Andrews: That's why you have a budget. Otherwise we'd be here every month
deciding how much did we take in and what are we going to spend it on.
Lash: No, but if we have a whole bunch extra left over from last year
because the estimated amount that was going to come in was exceeded by
twice as much, and it seems like the next year we should be able to spend
it if we want to.
Hoffman: ...$20,000.00 to $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 range and that was from
like 2 years ago to probably 6 years ago that that cash excess was built up
and now that's being spent on the Lake Ann shelter.
,....
Schroers: What you're saying is occurring. It's happening. We're
spending it but it actually takes this long to spend it.
Lash: Well it's been a little bit each year that's accumulated.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 28
.....",
Robinson: I think it's just a good, conservative approach to it.
Andrews: That's going to cover our shortfall this year. It smooths out
the ups and downs and makes it easier for us to budget on an annual basis.
Lash: So typically it's just been a small amount?
Hoffman: You bet. It's not in the hundreds.
Schroers: Okay, any other questions on the budget and revenue report?
Robinson: No, thanks. I'm glad you put that in there.
TRAIL CONNECTION. HERMAN FIELD PARK TO MINNEWASHTA REGIONAL PARK.
Hoffman: It's fairly straight forward. I handed out an additional
attachment there. The letter from Mike Liddicoat and the Minutes from
their meeting. To get straight to the point, we had two trail systems and
two separate park areas. A county park and a city park. It does make a
whole heck of a lot of sense to connect those two so they can be used
together. But then again back from, blank blank back from the Park
Commission, County Park Commis~ion, they have no interest in funding or
shouldering any of the burden in making that connection. In fact...that we
spoke to thought it was discriminating against the rest of the city of
Chanhassen because you're.allowing one neighborhood to connect up to have
an exclusive connection to Minnewashta Regional Park.
""WfI/II'
Robinson: I didn't understand that comment.
Hoffman: So there's v'arying thoughts on that. As you can see from the
map, the most likely connection point would be to the west where the little
bubble in that trail comes closest to the Herman Field Park. There is
actually a security fence which runs the entire perimeter of Minnewashta
Regional Park. When they originally opened that park they had a policy
that walk-on's and bike-on's were not welcome. Those people needed to come
through the front gate -and pay their entry fee. They've now ceased that
~olicy so they would not have any problem with bikers or walkers coming in
on this particular stretch but they don't want to pay for it. If we need
to make a gate and a fence and put in a trail and put in any type of
crossing which is necessary there because of the waterway, it would be at
our expense.
Lash: Which would be about how much?
Hoffman: I have no estimate but probably the bridge, which I'm not sure. I
haven't been out to look at the creek crossing in this particular location.
The creek is somewhat small. It may be able to be culverted and built over
with a berm if the watershed district would approve that but 90% of the
work could be done in house. Clearing and grubbing and seeding and that
type of thing.
Schroers: This would not in effect be a link or master trail plan for a
trail going around Lake Minnewashta. That hook up with the Arboretum. ....",,'
,,-..
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 29
Hoffman: It certainly would be.
Schroers: Make that entire circle.
Hoffman: Well it's going to make the circle much more complete because the
trail coming from the Arboretum will then connect with the park and then
you can go through the park into Herman Field. Then we've got TH 7 to
negotiate which hasn't been addressed yet. Then to the south you can take
the trail from that portion on TH 5, north of TH 5 that will go in and then
jump onto the Minnewashta Parkway Trail so you'd encompass the entire lake
except we haven't addressed the TH 7 issue on the north side.
Schroers: I guess from that point of view, I'm definitely in favor of
making that link. Anyone else?
Andrews: Do we need to do anything on this?
Koubsky: We're going to need a cost estimate.
Hoffman: Yeah, just a motion to move forward with negotiations and
investigation.
,...
Andrews: I move that we pursue obtaining more information so that we can
link up with the County Park. Carver County Park. I used the wrong name.
Schroers: Is there a second?
Koubsky: I'll second.
Hoffman: That's Carver County Park. It's Minnewashta Regional.
Andrews moved. Koubsky seconded to continue negotiations with Carver County
Parks for a trail connection between Herman Field Park and Hinnewashta
Regional Park and request that project costs be calculated and presented to
the Park and Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
APPROVE 1992 MEETING DATES.
Hoffman: Chairman Schroers, the two decisions that need to be made are in
the months of May and December. Other than that the fourth Tuesday of the
month does work unless the Commission wanted to entertain a total switch of
meeting nights or dates or times of the month. Everything fits but in May,
because of Memorial Day and moving the meeting up in December to the 15th.
Lash: What about the one in November? Didn't we change that this year too
so it \."asn't.. .with Thanksgiving.
Hoffman: Yeah, it was changed this year basically because we followed
Council's schedule which needed to be moved because of Veteran's Day.
~, Thanksgiving would be on Thursday and the meeting Tuesday night.
Robinson: Is that the problem with May also because of, I mean the day
after Memorial Day is really no big deal is it but the Council doesn't meet
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 30
.....",
on that Monday night so that's the reason you're proposing...Park and Rec?
Hoffman: Yeah. It can go on May 26th if that's the wish. The one
consideration there is commissioners may be out of town and didn't review
their packet over the Memorial weekend.
Schroers: So what you're saying in May in 1992, Memorial Day is on the
18th?
Hoffman: May 25th is Memorial. I would recommend moving the meeting to
the 19th.
Lash~ Yeah, that's good.
Andrews: I move that we approve this schedule for 1992 as presented by the
Coordinator.
Pemrick: I'll second that.
Andrews moved, Pemrick seconded to approve the 1992 meeting schedule for
the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission as presented. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: None.
-'
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
RETIREMENT OF CURT ROBINSON AND DAWNE ERHART FROM THE COMMISSION.
Hoffman: Item (a), retirement of Curt Robinson and Dawne Erhart from the
Commission. It's with mixed emotions that we bid farewell this evening.
As Commission memb"ers are aware, Dawne Erhart and Curt will retire from the
Commission effective December 31st of this year. In appreciation for their
years of service to the Community in the voluntary roles of Park and
Recreation Commissioners, each will be honored. Dawne for 3 years of
service will be presented a Certificate of Appreciation from the City
Council.
Erhart: Thank you Todd.
Hoffman: Thank you Dawne. And Curt, fOT his 6 years of service will be
the recipient of a Maple Leaf Award to be presented by the City Council,
hopefully if you can make it there, on January 13th.
Robinson: I wouldn't miss it for the world.
Hoffman: Both Dawne and Curt have served their tenure with integrity and
good faith. The City's park a~d recreation faciliti.s have grown rapidly
during their terms. We talked about that.. Hopefully it will grow rapidly
over the next 6 as well.. And exist in their present state in part due to
their input and contributions. You are both unheralded public servants who
should be proud of your accomplishments as commissioners and of your
dedication to the Commission's wor k. Thank you both for all your time, ...".,
commitment and involvement as Park and Recreation Commissioners. With this
~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 31
we bid you farewell and hope that you continue to pursue your interests in
parks and recreation.
ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEWLY APPOINTED COMMISSION MEMBERS.
Hoffman: Item (b) is the announcement of the newly appointed Commission
members. City Council interviewed last week and recommended appointees at
last evenings Council meeting. Both those recommended by the Park
Commission were appointed, Randy Erickson and Fred Berg.
Erhart: Those are two good choices I think.
Schroers: The Council actually conducted their own interview?
Hoffman: Yes.
Schroers: But just of those two?
Hoffman: They interviewed them all. They like to keep their options open.
Robinson: And they agreed with our recommendation?
Hoffman: Yes. And they thought, as well, they thought the choices were
~ obvious so recommendations were coincided.
WINTER RECREATION PROGRAM UPDATE.
Hoffman: If Jerry has any comments. As you can see, the amount of
programs are plentiful and registration...
Ruegemer: I really don't, the report is pretty much straight forward with
dates and registration times. This year we did plan a little more, 2 or 3
more activities during the Christmas vacation to try to cater to the
children on break so they would have something to do instead of driving
their parents crazy at home or do whatever. So we're just trying to offer
more programs to a wide variety of age categories in the Chanhassen area.
So are there any questions about the report or dates or times or
registration procedures or anything like that?
Koubsky: I have one question Jerry. I was asked where the proceeds to the
pancake lunch go? Are there proceeds to that?
Ruegemer: Yeah, basically they recover all costs of putting it on and then
the Chamber just uses that for city functions. Not city functions but
Chamber sponsored activities. If they would do any type of.
Hoffman: Not a big money maker. One year it goes in the hole and the next
year it pays lt off so.
Koubsky: I'm assuming the skating party is in limbo.
,.....
Hoffman: That's the next report.
Ruegemer: Yeah, day by day thing here. Week by week so.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 32
.....-Ji
Hoffman: The one thing we continue to discuss in programming is
convenience.. With today' s 11 festyle registration, the information has to
be quicK and concise. People do not have a lot of time to spend coming in
for registration so we're taking a look at like a bank lobby type of system
where folks can register after hours in the lobby of City Hall. So they
can come in and fill out a registration form. Deposit it in a deposit box.
Fax registration and credit card over the phone registration and those
types of things. Folks are on a pretty fast track lifestyle ~nd in brder
to get them in and get them in these programs, you need to make...just
doesn't happen.
Andrews:
...separate answering machine for stuff like that?
Hoffman: The softball program or the summer softball program did use that.
It's used very effectively for rain outs and those types of things but many
communities have a Park and Recreation update hotline. Something of that
nature and we tossed that idea around as well.
Lash: In the Villager...have the little registration thing in there which
is good but if I wanted to register for more things, it'd be nice to have
more registration blanks included with the things so I could just sit down
and fill out a check and drop it in the box and be done with it.
Robinson: Did you say you have a fax machine here?
Hoffman: Yes. So if anybody has any ideas or experience in those types of
areas. From a consumer viewpoint let ~s know, or from your neighbor's
viewpoint of what...
-'
SKATING AND HOCKEY RINK STATUS REPORT.
Hoffman: Boy we sure thought we were going to get an early start and we'd
all be skating by now but during those heavy snowfalls we had cold enough
weather but obviously the crews were assisting in clearing roads and then a
d~y or two .later getting out and plowing the hockey rinks so we could get
some frost into the gTound and freeze skating rinks. So we continue to
plow those but very little frost in the ground and not a lot of cold
weather so we havery't initiated flooding efforts to date.
Schroers: We flooded a rink on that day that it was zero, or a little
below zero actually even and we didn't put a lot of water down because we
wanted it to freeze up. The next day it still wasn't frozen.
Andrews: I thought you were going to say it just soaked in.
Schroers: No. It didn't soak in but the ground was still so warm that it
didn't freeze.
Lash: Try and get it flooded by Christmas. I got both my kids skates.
Hoffman: That's the, you know the middle of December is always the target
date but you need to have them done by Christmas vacation but last year
that didn't happen. We were between Christmas and New's Years before we -'
were really on line.
r--.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 33
Schroers: Okay. Well that pretty much takes care of item 8,. the
Administrativ~ Presentations. Then we have 9, the Administrative section.
Anything there?
Koubsky: Getting back to 8. The cost of the warming house. I guess to me
that seemed fairly reasonable. The 8 x 30. If you add them all up it
comes to $596.00 without attendants. And 8 x 30 is fairly big. I thought
that seemed to be fairly reasonable whether we want~d to try one of those
out this year or work maybe next year at lighting some area and trying one
out next year.
Hoffman: We'd have to put it into a '93 timeframe.
Koubsky: Or '93.
Hoffman: Not while 1992. '92-93 because we need to look at extension of
utilities and those types of things for the building.
Andrews: Based on these costs, it certainly would seem to make more sense
to do this.
Koubsky: At least to see what the response is.
~ Andrews: You figure what it costs us to build a building, $10,000.00.
Wait for the $10,000.00 with the interest in the bank, you could pay for
the rent.
Lash: And the maintenance too.
Andrews: That's right. And they're out of sight in the summer too. They
take it up out of the way.
Schroers: I looked at some of these at a show that I was at and they
looked nice but the insurance option I think is something that needs to be
considered and planned in for sure because I asked them about that and they
said we were, whoever rented it was definitely liable to see that it was
returned in reasonable condition.
Koubsky: What do they do? Oh, I'm sorry Larry.
Schroers: That's okay. If somebody took a notion they wanted to tear all
the paneling out or something like that, it could be pretty expensive to
replace.
Koubsky:
electric?
One thing that wasn't included in here was heat.
Do they bring in LP?
Was that
Hoffman: Electric. Electric heaters. I believe they'll give you an
option on restrooms. You can actually hook these things up to a service
line or else you can use...but that's included in the structure.
,-..
Schroers: It looks more like a trailer house. Okay, is there anything
else?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 10, 1991 - Page 34
--'
Andrews: I was just reading that petition from the trail lobby, whatever
you want to call it. I guess the one thing I noticed is I kind of read
through all those names and I didn't see very many Chanhassen residents
there.
Lasn: Well it's from Eden Prairie but there was a lot of people who
weren't even from Eden Prairie. It was Richfield and $hakopee and Chaska
and all ov~r everywhere. I thought they were really scrapping.
Pemrick: Edina.
Andrews: There's no doubt there's an interest but I guess I look again at
the cost versus the number of users we're providing a trail for. I'm not
optimistic that we could provide them with what they're looking for and be
fair to our needs.
Hoffman: I believe the signatures on this list represent the trail users
of the HorsemensClub in Eden Prairie.
Robinson: How did the lighting of the tree go last night?
Hoffman: Jerry was there.
Lash: Were there very many people there?
Ruegemer: Yeah we had I think around 75 people. We had the choir singing
and the Mayor gave a small presentation and flipped the switch.
-'"
Pemrick: What time was that?
Ruegemer: 6:00.
Pemrick: Because I drove by about 6:30, I had to go to a band concert and
it was beautiful.
Hoffman: It was beautiful. I was wondering why it wasn't on tonight.
Lash: Who was the Santa?
Ruegemer: Karen Engelhardt's cousin. His name is David Tiese. He dropped
100 pounds from last year too but he still filled it pretty good but not
like he was last year. Good turn out though. I was very pleased. All the
cookies were eaten up.
Schroers: Okay. Anything else in the administrative section? We were
still in item 8 actually. If we're done with that we can go to number 9.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. None.
Robinson moved, Erhart se~onded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30p.m..
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Coordinator
...."
Prepared by Nann Opheim