PRC 1990 03 13
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CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 13, 1990
(The recording quality of the tape of this meeting was very poor and
therefore the Minutes are not totally cOI1lplete.)
Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:31 p.m..
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Mady, Jan Lash, Curt Robinson, Larry
Schroers, Dawne Erhart, Wendy pemrick and Jin. Andrews
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
WELCOME NEW COMMISSION MEMBERS:
The Park and Recreation COI1iI1d.ssion welcorr,ed the new CO!1'II1".ission !1'ien,bers
Wendy Pemr ick and Jirr. Andrews. JiIlI Mady and Todd Hoffrr.an explained to the
new cOIllrr,ission meI1lbers how the Park and Recreation COI1lI1iission operates
their meetings. Larry Schroers asked staff to send letters of appreciation
to Slle Boyt and Ed Hasek for their tiI1ie and energy spent while on the Park
and Rec Commission.
APPOINT ACTING CHAIR: Schroers I1loved, Mady seconded to appoint Curt
Robinson as Acting Chair for the meeting. All voted in favor and the
Illotion carr ied.
,.....
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Erhart moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes
of the Park and Recreation Corr~ission meeting dated March 13, 1990 as
amended on page 13 by Jan Lash. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Robinson: I didn't get it on the record bllt I'd like it to be on the
record, this booklet we have before lls...Chanhassen Park and Rec
Department... And I think that's a heck of job. A good description of the
programs that we have in Chanhassen.
Hoffman: If I can just take a IliOI'.ent. The propaganda that I left on your
desk, I'll just go throllgh it at this time... I included with the
information I left on your desk, a large map of the... There's also an
application for running... It's jllSt a block or 2 blocks and it costs
$15.00 for..~
Mady: Also...Frontier Trail, discussion that I heard, the trail...
Engineering has indicated that there would be a 6 week construction period
starting approximately the first of June. Maybe we can work around that...
Hoffman: We still have to go around that with the scheduling.
Mady: I didn't know who would be dealing with this bllt...but I thought we
should be aware of it too.
SITE PLAN REVIEW, ROBERTS AUTOMATIC PRODUCTS, INC.
,..... Hoffman: This is a proposal for 40,000 square foot office/warehouse/
manufacturing facility. It's not 10 acres that it will be constructed on.
Park and Rec Con~ission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 2
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It's approxiniately 5.75 acres. It's located just east of the new EIr.pak
building south of TH 5 north of Lake Susan Park. ...from Eagan. It's a
third family manufacturer...since you have Lake Susan Park so close in
proximity there and so it's the recon~iendation of this office to accept
park dedication fees in lieu of parkland and a sidewalk is included with
the construction of Lake Drive East. Since that will be in that portion of
the construction, to accept trail fees in lieu of trail construction.
Lash: Do you have any idea what these fees will amount to?
Hoffman: $1,200.00 per acre for the park fees and $400.00 for the trail.
Lash: How many acres is this?
HoffIlian: 5.75. It's incorrectly stated as 10.
Lash: I'm sorry, what'd you say?
Hoffman: 5.75 acres.
Robinson: Is there any discussion or conmients anybody?
Mady moved, Schroers seconded that the Park and Recreation Con~ission
recon~end to accept park dedication fees in lieu of parkland and as a
sidewalk is included in the Lake Drive road construction, to accept trail ~
fees in lieu of trail construction. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
APPROVAL OF JULY 4TH BAND CONTRACT.
Hoffman: We're underway in the planning for the July 4th again. We
normally enter into agreements for contracts for the band and
entertainment... We're still waiting for one of the bids on the fireworks.
The Hi-Tops were, this will be 4 years past and I started looking into
other bands...so it is recon~iended that we accept the contract for
the Hi-Tops for $1,300.00, an increase of $100.00 over last year's
perforn.ance.. .
Robinson: Is that in the ballpark as far as cost?
Hoffman: For a band?
Robinson: Yes...
Hoffnian: It's low. The White Sidewalls, who entertain...is $3,000.00 and
up for a performance. Bob and the Beachcombers is $1,800.00 to $2,000.00.
They're the type of band, they don't do a whole lot of traveling. They
remain together and they do a 900d job...
Lash: I have a couple of questions Todd. YOll say under additional
provisions. It says the rain day will be scheduled for July 4th. If both
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March 13, 1990 - Page 3
days are rained out, the band will be paid in fulL. I'm wondering, is this
scheduled for the 3rd?
Hoffman: For the band.
Lash: And the 4th is Wednesday so do you think that we should, I guess I
wouldn't be that crazy about having them play on the 4th because we're
having fireworks at Lake Ann Park so you're having fireworks there and the
dance over here on the same night?
Hoffman: We can probably arrange to have the dance at Lake Ann as well.
Lash: But I think in the past once in a while we had it on the 4th and
people, most people have to get up and go to work the next day. Do you
think it would be better to try and have another rain day be maybe the
Friday following or Saturday following? Do you think we'd have a better
turnout? We'll pay them until midnight.
Hoffman: Yep.
,....
Lash: So how many people are going to stay until midnight when they've got
to get up and go to the work the next day? You know I'm saying if we're
lucky that won't happen anyway but. ...do we absolutely have to do that?
Hoffman: No. We can amend this and see if they...change that to Friday
and we can say if it rains on Friday, we'll do it on Saturday.
Schroers: But we don't know that they're available on that other date
right? They already have told us that they are available for the 3rd and
4th but they rnay not be available on a Friday or Saturday night when ff.aybe
they're normally scheduled...
Robinson: How much rain are we talking about?
Hoffman: If we're rained out totally.
Robinson: They played...
Lash: I just throw it out as a thought you know.
Robinson: Let's try for that. First rain out date and see if they'll
accept a Friday or a Saturday.
Lash: Does that seem logical to most people or doesn't that?
HoffIl.an: I'll take that back to theIl. and br ing it back for you at the next
Il.eeting then.
Robinson: Okay. But we have concluded we would like the Hi-Tops again
haven't we?
JIll'"
Mady:
years.
Yes. I've heard real favorable responses on the Hi-Tops all four
There was one resident who wished we had more of a polka or old
Park and Rec Con~ission Meeting
March 13, 199~ - Page 4
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lliUSic type band but I think since we're doing that on the Oktoberfest
night, we really are hitting both groups. We'll get the square dancers
next.
Lash moved, Mady seconded to table approval of the July 4th band contract
with the Hi-Tops until staff has information regarding changing the rain
out dates to July 6th or 7th. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
DISCUSSION OF COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN.
Hoffman: As Lori stated on her staff report, the cOll~iission has expressed
some interest in taking a look at trying to prioritize the routes of the
trails that we would like to work on in the Chanhassen area. Major
collector routes that we've talked about in the past. It's an opportunity
for the commission to go through that...
Mady: I'll jUllip in first since I was the... For llie there's 3 pieces that
are crucial. They are Lake Minnewashta Parkway which I guess at SOllie point
in time the City is going to be reconstructing...pre1imnary estimates of
$l~~,~~~.~~ for that segment included a variety of problems on the roadway.
I don't know if this is 2 or 3. My next two items I guess are sort of
interchangeable. They're both TH l~l. One is north of TH 5 and one is
south of TH 5. They're both the same reasons. The poor condition of the
roadway which I guess is the same with Lake Minnewashta Parkway and also
the safety aspects of it. with the new parks that have come on line, ....."
North Lotus Lake area, I think it's important that the residents have a
safe means of travel to that. with the new park going in at South
community park, whatever we name that, we've had residents already in here
1 or 2 meetings ago who indicated that we should make sure we have a trail
in place prior to opening that park. I'm not sure when we'll be
constructing this trail but I believe it's important that the funding
lliechanism be in place so that when the opportunity presents itself, the
City can then go about providing funding. I guess...we're going to need to
go with the referendum process. I don't anticipate the City selling bonds
right away. The bonding would be...but I think it's illiportant that those 3
...in the future.
Andrews: Can you specify where the trail is...
Mady: The parkway itself which runs frolli TH 7 to TH 5 on the west side.
Schroers: Are you referring Jilli, are you saying that these should be done
in conjunction with the realignn,ent of the road, in the TH l~l case and on
a scheduled improvement for the road on Minnewashta Parkway's case?
Mady: It's always the cheapest time to do it.
Schroers: Yeah, I agree with that. I didn't know if that's for sure what
you were saying.
Mady: I'd also like to see the City start up a new survey of residents.
The last survey we did in 1987, roughly 8~% of the residents were
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 5
interested in trails in the City. since that tillle we've had two trail
referendums. A lot of information has gone out to the residents. I think
we can get a more informed opinion frOlll the residents at this time before
we go a whole lot further on the trails. It's important. I know we based
this on the information we received in 1987 which was overwhelmingly in
favor of it. It appears that that...changed so we need to get that
information...
Schroers: Do we need to hire a survey person to do that? Can we just do
that amongst ourselves...alphabetically and just assign every person...in
the alphabet and call every third or fourth person?
Mady: The last time we did it we hired a student from St. Thomas who had
his background in statistics and he wrote a statistically valid survey
using questions that weren't leading. They were the types of questions
that didn't provoke any particular resporise among residents... valid sample
which I think is very important to...biased being entered in, at least
intentional...and it wasn't very expensive. I don't remember the exact
dollars but...
Hoffman: We can investigate a variety of different lllethods of taking a
survey. Larry...volunteering everyone's time but it would be a pretty big
project. . .
"... Lash: I lean towards having a problelll with surveys because people's
answers are going to be biased somewhat by the presentation of the question
or the inflection in the person's voice. I think because I was called on
that survey, when you don't have enough information everything sounds
great. SOll"leOne says to you hey, would you like trails and a comrhunity
center? Would you like this or that? Everything always sounds great but
the...is when they say but it's going to cost you another $150.00 on your
taxes. Then people go whoa, I don't know if I want it that bad. And then
there we are. We've spent the money to do it. We have possibly inaccurate
inforI'lation. We have a referendlUlI and then... in front of you when you have
good intentions but...so they're not making informed decisions. I'm not
comfortable with the accuracy of the surveys. If people don't know how
much it's going to cost, bottom line, I don't they're making an informed
decision.
Hoffman: At this time we're talking generalities in terms of discussion on
the survey...
Schroers: The last survey asked how the trail issue should be funded and
the people were given 3 or 4 different choices.
Robinson:
be funded.
I know that was true with the community center.
I think maybe we could consider some other...
How that should
(There was a delay in taping at this point and the following is a sUll~ary
prepared by Todd Hoffman of the discussion missed on tape.)
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Dawne Erhart stated that she would like the segment of the mapped nature
trail which runs east and west along the southerly edge of their property
Park and Rec Co:mmission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 6
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removed from the COIf.prehensive Trail Plan. Jan Lash prioritized TH 101
north, TH 5 to be put in with the State upgrading, TH 101 south, CRl17 and
Minnewashta Parkway. She stated that she would like to see creative
funding used instead of a referenduRi. Jan Lash stated that she would like
to see cost estimates on these new trail and would be in favor of
eliminating some neighborhood sidewalk projects and useing the funds saved
for the major trails. Dawne Erhart stated she would like to see work done
on the nature trails. Curt Robinson stated his top priority was TH 101
north of TH 5. Larry Schroers stated he would be in favor of building
trails by using public demand and anticipated use as guidelines. He would
also like to stay on top of the development and upgrading of Minnewashta
Parkway. Jini Mady confirIf.ed his interest to If.ove forward wi th a trail
along Minnewashta Parkway. A letter from Greg Datillo addressed to Mayor
Chmiel dated March 12, 1990 was submitted for the record by Mayor Chmiel
and reads as follows:
Dear Mayor Chmiel:
Thank you for the time and energy you gave Tom Heighberg and myself on
Saturday niorning. We feel more comfortable that you understand the needs
of our area, and the importance of planning the walk/bike pathway during
the upgrade of Minnewashta Parkway. We understood from our conversation
that your meeting with Mr. Warren will reconfirm that the Parkway is up for
state funds in 1991. We anxiously await that confirmation.
In addition, what preplanning should be done in 1990 to secure the niost ....,,;
return for our tax dollar? Has a cOIf~ittee been set up to secure input
from associations and neighborhoods that will be affected? After speaking
with other associations in the area everyone is anxious to provide you with
whatever is necessary to get this "safety issue" addressed.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Greg Dattilo, President
Red Cedar Point Home Owners Association
Lash: Just to back up for a second. Jim and I have the same question for
you Jim. It's getting confusing but, do you get called Jim or James?
Alright. I want to back up to Minnewashta Parkway for just one second and
what you said a few minutes ago. You're saying the State is going to do
the reconstruction but the City would have to pay for the cost of the
trail.
Mady: The State will help in the construction. It's a State Aid road so
they'll pay a portion. I don't reIf.ember the percentage. The residents
will pay for the rest.
Lash: The residents are assessed?
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Park and Rec Con~ission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 7
Mady: The rest of the road. The trail and/or sidewalk. It has been the
policy of the City that those were at city expense and not to assess them
to the residents. Now in the Minnewashta Parkway, there are a lot of...
just because of the sheer number of people that signed the petition to put
it on the road, they might be willing to be assessed. That's one of the
options. They said that they should not...
Lash: I think that's something we should look at.
Mady: And Greg indicated that they do need to forni a commi ttee wi th that
neighborhood in the near future because, Greg's a personal friend of
mine...about every time I see him he asks me about this. They need
something there.
Andrews: ...the more use it gets. The type of use it gets. The type of
person that's attracted to use it and also property values...
Robinson: Any other con~ents?
Hoffnian: I just have one comn,ent. I'd like to apologize. The tape...
I've taken fairly good notes. I can paraphrase it and enter anything into
the Minutes that are the most important.
~
Mady: Two years ago our Minutes were just stunniarized by staff and then 2
years ago the City Council required that all Minutes be verbatim so that's
when it started. Otherwise they were just surruliarized.
Andrews: Is it customary that you try to place on an agenda...
Mady: No, staff's real good at keeping track of things. We seldom drop
anything.
Andrews: I guess I want to...progress is to be made.
Schroers: This trail issue has been discussed many tinies and it will be
discussed niany times. That's going to be a reoccur ing thing because...
Robinson: But we change our priorities and something new comes up and
we'll discuss it.
Mady: I asked staff back in December to review this and get it on an
agenda because Minnewashta parkway is a concern of mine as well as TH 101,
both north and south and the only opportunity to actively see in getting it
funded is through the referendum process. We just simply aren't going to
be bringing in the types of fees over the next 2 years to pay for it.
$105.00 a pop just isn't going to do it.
,....
Andrews: For a lake property owner which a high traffic street running in
front of that lake property, I don't think...because they do hurt the value
of your property. The resale or... It's also difficult to pass a
referenduni for people that are 2 miles away to pay for these that aren't in
front of their house.
Park and Rec CoItllliission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 8
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Lash: We're setting our priorities. This is my understanding. TH 101
north and Minnewashta parkway and possibly looking at about the same time
frame right? So those would be our 2 top prioties right now in trying to
find out how creative we can be in doing that... I agree with Jim that
it's a hard thing to sell a trail on TH 101 to people living along TH 41
just really don't care. They don't want to pay for it... Get as much
information pulled together as we can.
Schroers: I think the public hearings in Chanhassen...where we have one
neighborhood who is totally sold in one direction and another neighborhood
that's totally sold on the opposite. A lot of varying...
DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE TREE ORDINANCE.
HoffI',an: Lori included this in your packet. There has been discussion of
it occasionally in past meetings. Information was included to give you a
chance to review what other coIt~unities do with a tree ordinance and just
to give you some background information to see if you would like to proceed
with this type of policy...
Mady: I've got a COItlll,ent to throw out.
Robinson: Go ahead.
Mady: I'd like to get direction from the Council because I don't think ..,
they want us to work on it or not. I want to find out, before we put a
whole lot of tiI'l,e and effort into this thing, if they're really interested
in passing some kind of restrictive tree ordinance.
Lash: There's something out, that teI',porary something or something going
on?
Hoffman: As far as planting?
Lash: No, as far as cutting.
Hoffman: Cutting? Not that I'm aware of.
Lash: I thought that there was something that had been kind of put in the
works temporarily and...a certain diameter or a certain age tree or
something but I don't remember what it was. I guess it would be helpful...
Mady: I guess we need to know, where they want us to go.
Robinson: But what do we think we should do?
Lash: Is it something that should be our responsibility or is it something
that should be someone else's responsibility?
Robinson: I really think what's our opinion. .Should we or should we not
have a tree ordinance? And mine I think was prior to reading this, yeah.
I really think we should have sOI'l,ething to protect our trees but my God,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
March 13, 199~ - Page 9
this is what it would end up as so I say no. We don't need a tree
ordinance in my opinion.
Andrews:
right.. .
I'm not sure it's appropriate. It's the property owner's
I'm not sure it's necessary and our responsibility...
Schroers: I don't think it's so much individual property owners as it is
developers. That's what I'm worried about. I would like to see, I would
definitelv be in favor of a tree ordinance as well as in favor of a green
space and. passive use and natural areas set aside in the city of
Chanhassen. I think that it all blends into together and I think that a
tree ordinance is necessary. Developers come in and buy different tracts
of land and they can devastate a major, mature hardwood area and they're
few and precious and getting fewer. I definitely think that we need a tree
ordinance.
Robinson: The ones we've seen though have protected the trees...
Schroers: An easement, what do you call that, a conservation easement in
that area.
,...
Lash: Some of the developers are good about that but some aren't and I
think the ci ty got burnt on one over here sOIl'.ewhere where he just totally
plowed down all the trees and I find that offensive and I think we need to
have protection from that but I don't know that we need to get into quite
so many rules and regulations on the private property owners. I find all
these rules to be somewhat offensive and people having, the government
telling them every single thing that they can and can't do. But I think as
far as developments go, I would like to see some protection.
Robinson: Can Counci 1 handle that on an ind i vidual developIlient basis?
Mady: I guess let me put in some background data on this. One, I know the
Ci ty has SOllie rules right now in place as to what a developer can and can't
do. At Council level there's been discussions froIl'. tiIl'.e to tillie over the
past few years. One Council member calls it a landmark tree. Basically
talking about a tree that's been there forever. It's in somebody's front
yard type of thing and it's providing shade for 3 houses and now if that
guy all of a sudden decides to cut it down...historic landmarks and
preservation of pUblic spaces. I don't know, what I'm looking at, is I
don't know what direction the Council wants to go with this. Are they
talking about...trees. Are they talking about hardwoods? I'm looking for
direction before we start heading off and trying to figure out a direction
ourselves.
Robinson: But I think that's what they're looking to us to do.
Mady: I don't know that so I want to find out.
Lash: Why is this coming to us?
,.....
Schroers: It's from staff. Lori feels that, she wants our opinion.
Park and Rec Conmdssion Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 10
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Hoffman: .. .commission level and as developments con-,e before us, we talk
about it.
Lash: I don't know now, I've read that in other cities or maybe it's here,
I don't know, where if you take out a 12 inch tree you have to replace it
with, I don't know. I don't compare a 12 inch tree to a 12-1 inch trees.
Now that to me is not a fair comparison so I'd like to see that eliminated
if that's what it is now...
Andrews: It seems like we're talking about two different problems. One
the developer... versus the private homeowner...both issues with the same
action.
Lash: I would have a really big problem addressing a private homeowner and
telling hini what he can and can't do on his own property. I don't care, if
he's got a tree in his front yard that's 150 years old and he wants to cut
it down, I think that's his right and I don't think we can stop him...but I
would like to think nobody would do that but that's your right when you own
prop~rty. . .
Schroers: Unless you're a developer.
Lash: Right. And then you don't have any rights.
Mady: It gets... sun/shade space versus where son-,e people want the sun
space and some cities their ordinances you can't build a building so many ~
feet because you're blocking the sun some other guy gets. There's a whole
number of things in line with this thing. I know my personal opinion is
the City needs to have some type of tree ordinance. I know the City has
soniething in place right now. We need to have that before we can start
discussing this and so niY objective, if everything we have available to us
included in that sonie direction from Council. I've worked enough in the
city on enough projects that it sounded really great at the con-iRiission
level and got to Council and found out I had wasted a whole heck of a lot
of time. And I simply am not willing to put a lot of effort into this
thing and find out the Council's not willing to even look at it or
discuss...put on a shelf.
Robinson: I think what we've covered so far is a lot of what somebody is
looking for...discussion of a possible tree ordinance. ...and applies to
developers.
Erhart: I'd like to add one more group to that if I could. utility
companies so we don't have the unfortunate mistake that was made over on
the east side of Minnewashta by Minnesota Valley Electric ,where they went
in and they cleared this long str ip of n-,ature trees. Along with developers
I think there should be, I would like to see...restrictions to electric
companies from con-oing in too.
Mady: They probably own an easement at that point and they can do anything
they want... Well we need to find all that stuff out.
Erhart: Then the other thing I was going to suggest too that I know this
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Park and Rec Con~ission Meeting
March 13, 199~ - Page 11
is the third or fourth year that Chanhassen on Arbor Day has given out
trees with Todd Gerhardt and the Boy Scouts. This year Emerson is p~ying
for them and I just wanted everybody to be aware that they will be glven
out on Arbor Day at the end of April and there will be Norway Pines, Blue
Spruce and I'd like to see this program grow so maybe you could tell your
friends.
Mady: I've gotten some every year.
Lash: But do they also give them to the schools?
Erhart: Anybody that wants to go out and get them can. The City in the
past has given them out, like I said. Each year TiIli orders theI'i with Todd
Gerhardt when we order ours and the more we get the word out about this,
maybe people will be planting.
Hoffman: You'll see more infomation coming out about that...
Erhart: proba~ly in the paper as it gets closer to the time.
Hoffman: And also an Earth Day celebration as a part of this...
Lash: Do you need a motion on this Todd?
,...
Hoffman: It's helpful.
Lash: Okay, I'll try to make one up. I'll make a motion that we ask for
guidance froI'i Council as to if they have specifics in n.ind about this. If
they're interested in us pursuing this and at the ComI'iission level so far
there appears to be an interest in having some type of an ordinance
governing massive tree removal or by developers or by cOI'ipanies.
Schroers: I have a probleIli if you put it like that.
Mady: 2~~ might be massive.
Lash: Yeah, that's true. Okay, so on future developIlients.
Schroers: From an environIliental point of view, the cOI'wiission has a
concern about having some type of a tree regulation.
Mady: Well it's hard to say just developments because if a person has a l~
acre spot of land and wants to put up a big house and decides to do it
right in the Iliiddle of a hardwood forest and it's only one house, and they
can do it. So I don't know, it's going to be a lot of. work.
Schroers: We just need to reword the whole thing.
"...
Mady: Let's move to table this item pending staff providing additional
information to the COIl~ission as to direction Council wishes us to proceed
and also bringing back to us what the current city regulations are
concerning trees.
Park and Rec CorliIllission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 12
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Lash: I guess I would like to provide Council with the Minutes of our
discussion here.
Mady: They get that anyway.
Lash: Well, I don't know how thoroughly they read it.
Robinson: I think your Illotion was good. It's just that...
Schroers: I do too but I just know we don't want to single out developers.
We're just interested in an overall tree ordinance and we need to know what
the right...
Lash: And we provide them with our discussion so they'll get the jest of
what we're trying to achieve here. And they can tell us if that's what
they're looking for or if they're looking for something different.
Robinson: Is there a second to that?
Mady: I'll second it.
Lash moved, Mady seconded to table action on the proposed tree ordinance so
staff can get additional information on the current tree regulations and to
get the City Council's direction. All voted in favor and the motion
carr ied. ...."",
DISCUSSION OF 1990 FIELD SCHEDULING POLICIES.
Hoffman: If you've all had a chance to read through this. it's basically
an informational memo to the comrr.issioners to let them know what's taking
place and what has been taking place as far back as to...pertaining to
surr~er, 1990. The new teams in the youth, sport teams...official requests
for field space and...sun~er, 1990...additional fields whether it be 3 or 4
and that's what I told them...request at that time. The 3 fields at Lake
Susan and sit back... We tend to try to stay away from using neighborhood
parks, neighborhood ball fields for organized activities. That park...
Mady: What we've typically done is, any neighborhood park, we shy away
from putting organized activities there although we do use Bandimere for
soccer. We do use Carver Beach. We use all of them. We use them all but
we say we try not to. We use them all and we use them pretty
intensively.. .
Schroers: The 3 new fields at Lake Ann are not on line...
Mady: Absolutely not. It's hopeful they'll be on line for the 1991...
Andrews: How many total fields do we have approximately?
Mady: Approximately 13.
....""
,....
Park and Rec Comll\ission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 13
Lash: So are you saying essentially here that after next year already we
can start looking for problems in scheduling?
Schroers: Actually scheduling right now is a problem.
Hoffman: Scheduling right now, this year it will be we'll have more adult
leagues at least that play on more than one night because... Certain
fields that we thought we had access to...Lake Drive East being extended
through there has taken out one of those fields and one additional field
there. .. .That takes that field out of COlliIl.ission for at least 2 nights
where it cannot be used for softball. My estill.ate of 12-17 teams, it's
going to be... Those new teall.s that are co:ming in, as I stated in our...
Lash: I noticed that...but is there some way that you'll have enough
facilities to meet these needs?
Mady: You were here last year weren't you? Do you want to open up a can
of worms when you open that meeting up?
Lash: I know it was an ugly topic but what else are we going to do?
Schroers: You can draw names.
,....
Lash: At that point in till.e you were telling people who had already played
here for years that they couldn't come back. What I'm saying is closing
the door to new teams until we have some more facilities.
Hoffman: What you're saying there is that new teams who are a large
ll.ajority of residents cannot play where we have a number of new residents
that want to play.
Schroers: That's the problem. You see these people have been playing...
South MinneapOlis are trying to tell us how we're going to run our park
system and why he should be allowed to play here and they're from South
MinneapOlis. As far as I'm concerned, he has no business being here in the
beginning.
Mady: It's a whole can of worms and I don't want to really enter into. I
just wanted to ask Todd, do you foresee a problem with the adult over 35
league? That is probably the, most established league in the City.
Hoffman: Wednesday nights is one of the nights that they requested... The
Legion field will be useq as a practice field for the Babe Ruth and Legion.
Andrews: How many teams were...
HoffIl.an: In adult softball? Last year it was 56. This year it will be
over 70. Adding lights. Adding more fields. The youth area is going to
expand as well. The 3 years that I've been here, the new programs...to use
those fields, those private fields...
""
Park and Rec COR~ission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 14
...."""
Lash: That's an idea though, get kicked around... Businesses are calling
and asking me if their team can get into the leagues. That field and
property over there.
Schroers: We kind of do that though through the dedication process. We
hit them with both the park and trail dedication for the...
Mady: ...Redmond Products. Mr. Redmond has been very generous to the City
in the past about making, offering donations and ,it might just be possible
if the City sent him the proper invitation that maybe he would...
Robinson: Can I have a motion?
Hoffman: There's no need for a motion. I just wanted to bring you up to
date on what was happening.
Lash: Is that the...
Hoffman: It's just so as we...
Robinson: I also think that we should do everything in our power to make
sure that those new fields are playable in 1991...we do that. We've got to
have those fields next year.
Lash: Is there a p-,iniR,uR. nUR,ber of games in a week that you guys play in
the season? Is there something that's required? ....",
Hoffman: A minimum number? Basically it's anywhere from 15.
Lash: If we had to real creative, could we do something where every week,
2, 4, 6 teams would have a bye and alternate nights and extend the season
out. Start a couple weeks early and...
Mady: We're already starting as early as we possibly can I think and it
goes to right before the State tournament so there's not a whole lot of
options on either side but it's a good idea.
Robinson: There's another alternative and that's to...
Mady: If they're using tax increment financing sometimes there might be
an opportunity.
u.s. OLYMPIC FESTIVAL TORCH RUN UPDATE.
Hoffman: Again this is an information report to let you know where we're
at. It's progressing nicely. We did have a request for volunteers from
the...at least once...
Robinson: Do you really have to run or can you walk?
Hoffnian: Any discussion or questions on the torch run at all or anything
about the Olyn,pic Festival in general?
....-'
".....
Park and Rec COIlimission Meeting
March 13, 1990 - Page 15
Andrews: When's the registration period for the torch run?
Hoffman: Through March 16th.
UPDATE ON THE NATIONAL YOUTH SPORTS COACHES ASSOCIATION.
Hoffman: This is something that's really come to light with the talk about
ethics and youth developIlient task force, those kinds of things. National
NYSC has been around for a while...for 3 years. Our former Athletic
Director, Bill Kirkvold of the CAA was the original person that...and is
leaving the association... It's an excellent prograIli in sports psychology
and getting...approach. That's what running sports is about and what kids
are in there for... Then for each sports, baseball, basketball, soccer,
there's a sports specific team which they outline in that particular...
,.....
Mady: I'll jump in here. Three years ago I went through the program with
Bill Kirkvold and I think he became accredited at that time. It was a 2
night course of 2 hours each with a test afterwards. It's an excellent
prograIli. It really is. I didn't realize that Chanhassen dropped it. I
guess I didn't realize it and Bill...because it's very, very important to
demonstrate to the children the proper philosophies in sports. Too often
it's a win, win, win all games and this particular program doesn't stress
winning. It stresses having fun for the kids and for the coaches and
getting parents involved. How to work on skills more than how to work on
winning at all costs. It's an excellent program. I still receive
materials from therr. and I've really benefitted from it and hopefully I've
passed that along to the kids that I've coached. I want to compliment Todd
on picking np the ball on this thing.
Lash: I've got a question. Would this then turn out to be a thing where
anyone who's...to be a coach would be required to attend these?
Hoffman: That's the direction that rr.any, many cOIliIliuni ties are taking...
corr~ission and Council level but association.
Lash: So anyone involved in coaching would... I think it's a worthwhile
thing, don't get me wrong or anything. I think I've seen some coaches that
I didn't necessarily think were giving the proper direction but I don't
know how much scrabbling they have to do to get enough volunteers to coach
and you create too many obstacles. They're already gone 2 or 3 nights a
week or 2 nights a week and Saturdays. To require them a couple more night
might be just enough to drive some people from vOlunteering. Maybe we want
to take the approach that if it's...
Hoffrr.an: My experience would be that they're not that desparate for
coaches any more. Most coaches have a sincere interest that they do want
to do a good job and they would be willing to put in some time corr~itment.
...basic training and...
.".
Andrews: What's the cost to take this course?
Park and Rec Con-.ntission Meeting
March 13, 199~ - Page 16
...",.,.,
Hoffman: The annual cost for each coach of $15.~~.
Andrews: I guess I would assume that would be part of...pass the
information along... That coaches have to take it. Head coaches and
assistants...
Mady: One thing I do want to caution the Con-.niission on is that the CAA is
separate and they are not connected with the City in any way. They are
totally independent so we don't set policies for... Plus I think it's more
of an item to keep us informed.
Hoffman: It's very easy for this body, if you feel strongly that it is
adviseable and did for example, that our organization did not, you can just
make it...any coach participating in any city...
COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS:
Lash: I have one and I'll try to keep it very short. with the appointment
procedures that took place this year and the last meeting we got the update
from Council on some changes that are to be implemented for next year. I
was glad to see that there were sonie changes.. .posi ti ve but I was still was
uncomfortable with a couple of the things that happened. Nun.ber one, I
guess I just don't feel it was real fair for Wendy and Jini. I had the
opportunity of getting my packet on Friday so I have all weekend to prepare
not knowing for sure if I was going' to be here tonight or not so it could ...."",.
have been a total waste of my time to sit and read through all of this but
for them to get the packet last night and then expect them to be prepared,
even though it's a light agenda. I guess I just didn't think that was a
real smooth transition. The other thing that I would like to see happen,
/
next year if it was not requir~d for people on the con~ission to be
interviewed. Fine. If they choose to be interviewed, I guess I don't
think it's fair for people on a con~ission to have prior knowledge of the
questions to be asked because I think it gives theni leverage over the other
candidates...and had I have been interviewed, I would have been able to sit
all weekend and make a real polished, professional sounding responses to
the questions and it'd be an unfair advantage. Since we're already given
somewhat of an advantage by prefacing...that's already an advantage. I
just don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair for the new people and
maybe we want to look over the questions and come up with a... and maybe
talk about it when it's closer to the subject but I'd like to see it
reviewed before it happens again.
Hoffman: You're aware that, part of your question...procedure should take
care of this type of probleni.
Lash: Right. I think a person should have more than 1 day notice.
Robinson: Any other con~ission presentations? Are you finished?
Lash: That was it.
Robinson: Any others?
..""",
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
~ March 13, 1990 - Page 17
ADMINSTRATIVE SECTION:
Dawne Erhart and Jim Andrews asked questions that could not be heard on the
tape.
Mady: The City has individual homeowner associations on the individual
lakes have set up groups of citizens who will actually go out daily and
patrol the lake. The seaweed inspector, who is Scott Harr, takes all the
information and acts on it promptly and the City does have an action plan
set up as to how to address it as soon as it's picked up. I don't know if
that answered your question or not but last year they were...small area and
eradicated irr~ediately. If it's the whole lake like Minnetonka is, there's
no hope so that's the...
Andrews:
...basically destroy the lake.
Schroers: Depending on the lake...and if you have a shallow, basically
overall shallow lake, it will take over the whole lake and destroy it bllt
if you have a lake like Minnetonka that has large expanses of open and deep
water there are always going to be areas of the lake that are not affected.
Andrews: My last question is...
".....,
Mady: That's been an item of concern and indicated to staff... They
always have enough things that we'd be interested in. No one has any...
power here but...
Jim Andrews made a comnient that was not audible on the tape.
Mady: Ed Hasek who was a commission merr,ber up until yesterday, lives out
there and was, he actually got put on this coniniission because the residents
olit there wanted somebody. He kind of got forced into it from the
residents and that's how he came on here a few years ago so Ed's been
shoving that through and I don't know with his absence...
Schroers: We should alniost ask for the homeowner associations to register
themselves with the City.
Mady: They are.
Schroers: Make themselves know. Addresses and phone numbers and that
so . . .
Mady: The City has a list of current officers of every homeowners
association in the City.
Robinson moved, Lash seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:37 p.m..
Submitted by Lori Sietsenia
Park and Rec Coordinator
,.... Prepared by Nann Opheini