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PRC 1990 10 23 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION ~. REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 23. 1990 Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:34 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Mady, Wendy Pemrick, Curt Robinson, and Jan Lash MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Andrews, Larry Schroers and Dawne Erhart STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor and Jerry Ruegemer, Program Specialist APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes of the September 25. 1990 Park and Recreation Commission meeting amended by Jan Lash and Jim Mady as follows: On page 6 under Todd Hoffman's comments, changing $6,000.00 to $40,000.00 and on page 22 under Jan Lash's comments, changing "Todd's making" to "Todd's taking" and changing "sloshing the pans" to "slapping his hands". On page 8 Jim Mady wanted to clarify the motion on handicap access. Whether the amount should be $6,000.00 or $5,898.00. Todd Hoffman stated that the $6,000.00 figure was just the rounded up number. All voted in favor of the Minutes as amended and the motion carried. 1990 LAKE ANN REVENUE REPORT AND 1990 LOTUS LAKE BOAT ACCESS USER REPORT. Ruegemer: This report was just put together to kind of show the background information and tie together everything that went on down at Lake Ann this ~ summer. Just give you some figures as far as picnics and people attending those picnics and daily and seasonal and non-resident passes sold for the summer of 1990. Just to start out with the picnics, the total of 24 picnics were held out, just company picnics this summer out at Lake Ann with approximately 2,250 attending those picnis. The companies are in alphabetical order and behind that, behind the company is the approximate number of people that attended the picnic. On the second page it's just a continuation of the companies and the number of people. Also there's a special interest group. These were just groups that came in to attend picnics like from the Middle School and the Cub Scouts and also from softball. Different softball tournaments that came in. Various churches came in and sponsored tournaments over the weekends throughout the summer and that just is also grouped in alphabetical order and the approximate number of people that participated in those picnic and softball tournaments and so forth. Just below that is just the communities where the different companies and special interest groups came from. There's a wide variety from around this western and Twin City area. Below that is just the number of passes sold at Lake Ann for the summer of 1990. The dailies, there's a total of 2,933. You times that by 2 and you come up with the $5,866.00 and seasonals total out at almost 1,000 with 998. Times that by 5 and you come up with $4,990.00. Seasonal non-resident, there's 161 of those sold. Times that by 10 and you come up with $1,610.00 with the grand total of $12,466.00. Robinson: Do we know how that compared to last year Jerry or the year before? .,,-.. Ruegemer: Last year there was around $11,700.00-$11,800.00. In that Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 2 "..... ballpark. This is before like the printing of the passes. I did not have that here. There's a total of seasonals, a second batch I processed, there's 1,200 of those ordered which was a cost of $367.50. The first batch that was processed there's a total of 2,500 seasonals printed up and that's a total of $671.00. Through the seasonals and non-seasonal passes there was a total of 3,700 passes ordered at a grand total of $1,038.50. In the daily passes there's a total of 2,000 printed which totaled out to be $114.90. Those two figures added together with the printing of the seasonals and dailies totaled out to be $1,053.40. And there were two companies that the seasonals were printed. By Westco Company in Eden Prairie and the dailies were printed up by Parkside Printing in Shakopee. Lash: This total that you have, the $12,466.00, that's before you added in the softball players right? Ruegemer: Right. That's. Lash: $4,875.00. Ruegemer: That was explained further back. Something that was added to that total. Lash: So really our whole total then was this $17,341.00. Ruegemer: Minus expenditures, right. Lash: Okay. Compared to $11,000.00 last year. ,.... Ruegemer: Right. Robinson: So this was the first year with the softball players? Ruegemer: Yes. Mady: Well we paid 2 years ago too. Last year we didn't pay but previously we had paid. We just handled it differently. It looks like we netted about $10,000.00 then. Lash: Wouldn't it be more like $l~,OOO.OO? Mady: If you strike out gate attendants. Lash: oh yeah, okay. Ruegemer: Then just certain supplies that went out. Additional letters and stuff. The gate attendants total out and their wages were listed on top of page 3 and just getting to the Lotus Lake boat access, there was a total of 1,405 boats. This summer, this was taken while a gate attendant was on duty. There was probably additional numbers that can be added onto that when the gate attendants were not on duty with an approximate total of 3,444 people using the access during gate attendance. Robinson: I really don't think that's a very meaningful number. """...... Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 3 ~ Hoffman: The gate attendants are probably there 25% to 40% of the time which it is heavily used. Robinson: Yeah, I mean I walked down there a lot in the evening and there was never a gate attendant and boats whipping in and out of there. Ruegemer: And that changed too through the course of the summer with different individuals terminating their work experience with the City and we had to cut back at the Lotus gate and just add those people to the Lake Ann gatehouse. Hoffman: Curt, I think that number could probably be extrapulated out and you could come up with a fairly. Robinson: Yeah, but it could be misleading too. If somebody looks at it and says oh, we have a total of 1,405 boats go down there. Ruegemer: That's just while the gate attendant was on duty. Robinson: Yeah. Ruegemer: This just goes on at the Lotus Lake with the gate attendants just surveying the milfoil and going through the...DNR, going through step by step. Inspecting the boats and vehicles as they come through the access and just basically just kind of being a role model. Just being present to inspect the boats and that will be added again for next year's gate attendants. Just to get them familiar with the milfoil. Just down below ~ it's a breakdown of that total. Boat useage throughout Lotus Lake as they entered. Just a little tidbit with the weather conditions. Average temp and wind throughout the summer. There's with, the increase can be contributed to the different 4th of July celebrations. Increase in that and with the additional softball tournaments going on. Actually the weather probably wasn't as nice as last summer. We had quite a few rainy days this year so that probably could have boosted sales a little bit possibly. Is there any questions? Lash: For the daily passes? Why do we give them a pass? So they can go out and come in again without having to pay? Ruegemer: It's just proof that they, as they enter the park they just purchase that. Mady: A way of keeping of track. Ruegemer:It's like I say, if somebody crashes the gate and if the gate attendant's report that to the Carver County Sheriff and has proof that they did pay and if somebody didn't pay, they will be escorted out. Lash: Okay. I just thought maybe it was unnecessary. Mady: Lake. A question somewhat related. With the gate attendants at Lotus Do they experience anything with milfoil? Ruegemer: No they didn't. r r r r"'. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 4 Mady: I didn't hear anything on Lotus. and Minnewashta had eradication programs hear anything on Lotus. I was wondering apparently not. Now I understand that both Riley take place this summer. I didn't if there was anything but Ruegemer: I didn't get any feedback. Mady: Good. Robinson: Neat report. It really is. Being a bean counter, I love all these numbers. And I guess, gee I'd really like to seek some comparative numbers maybe next year. In summary, not necessarily all the details but the number of passes and the total amount of income and what not. If we could see that from year to year it might tell us something. Lash: Maybe even in the last 5 years or something and then show the percentage of population growth or something. Robinson: Yeah. But that's a good report Jerry. UPDATE ON PURCHASE OF HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT. Hoffman: This item was reviewed at the last meeting and I had all intent to come back for approval on this item at this meeting. However, with the switching of the location. Instead of going to Lake Susan and switching at the elementary site, there was some site plan differences which called for additional review and additional interpretation of what that dollar amount, , what that $6,000.00 amount is going to buy us. At Lake Susan, if you can visualize the large play area which was put in there, had an enormous border area. Plenty of room to just come in and install that $6,000.00 in handicap accessible equipment. Asphalt the trailway to it. back to the pavillion building and we'd be in. We'd have some dollars spent on equipment. When I took Dave Owen from Earl F. Anderson over to the elementary school site and we took a look at that location, the border wood which would be necessary and then as well the pea gravel surfacing which would be necessary would eat up a considerable cost and a considerable amount of that $6,000.00. So what Dave is doing at the current time is taking a look at.that. Some design elements and then as well in the meantime I had the call from a Kitty Sitter with the APT at the Chanhassen Elementary with their, I believe she talked to Jan. Correct? With their intent that they would be willing to help out with this program for handicap accessible equipment and that would mean some donation of additional dollars towards this project. So currently we're just up in the air on what exactly is going to happen. What the final design will be on that equipment and as you can see by the sketches there, we have some basic ideas but what we'll exactly end up purchasing yet this fall and installing in the spring is still somewhat unclear. Lash: I guess I kind of, first of all I have one question. One time before you made some reference to the $40,000.00 maybe with some city budget cuts and stu~f maybe we would have lost some of that? Have we? Hoffman: No. .. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 5 ~ Lash: We haven't? Okay. Great. Hoffman: Well the $40,000.00 was budgeted as part of last year's capital improvement projects based on anticipated revenues from the building permit fees. Now those are going to come in somewhat lower than anticipated so each budget item could in fact, should be reduced a little bit but that $40,000.00 is a large figure and certainly the majority of that would be left there. Lash: I guess when we talked about it at the last meeting my thought, and when I read the Minutes, I think it was conveyed but somewhere I guess there was a little confusion because I had visualized this behind the school. Not on the north end where all the pearock is. So if we were to do this and combine this with, I mean obviously we have to wait until after the referendum and see what we're going to end up with up there for sure but if we're to combine the handicap accessible equipment with the other project that we have got slated. I mean that would end up being more comparable to Lake Susan wouldn't it? I mean we'd be able to work it in with anoth~r big project instead of having to go in where there's already something and take pearock out and change the border and all of that. We'd have more of the $6,000.00 to just use towards equipment wouldn't we? Hoffman: In discussing this with City Planner Paul Krauss, we had to really move forward because of the $6,000.00 is only available through the end of the year. We had to have some type of a plan in place in order to send that to the State people working with the Block Grant program so waiting until November 6th and then starting design work on this huge play ~ area which we might spent potentially $30,000.00 behind the school, working with the school district on that program, working with the APT on that program, would start to be a cumbersome process and probably would take us past the first of the year. Lash: But I asked at the last meeting if it had to be ordered by the end of the year and you said no because that's what I was afraid of. Was that we were going to have a timeline deadline there and you said there wasn't. So are you sure that there is? Hoffman: Yes, there is. I was mistaken. Lash: Because the reason I asked that last time, I had thought well if we had a deadline, the thing I would like to do is go ahead with a Plan A and a Plan B so that if we did have to move on it really fast, we'd be able to do that and get the order in by the end of the year. Hoffman: Yep. The order has to be in and we should rightfully have the equipment in our possession and in storage until the spring. Lash: We have to have it in possession by the first of the year too? Hoffman: Not necessarily but it would be best. Lash: Is that something that would be possible to do? Hoffman: To have the Plan B put in the back of the school? ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 6 ~ Lash: I mean I guess the Plan A and Plan B would be community center, no . community center and then however the referendum turns out we'd know what to do. That would also sort of be an incentive for us to hurry up and get going on the whole project and be able to get it in in the spring. Hoffman: Sure. Again, the design, the timeline which it's going to take to work with all those agencies in designing that, the playground behind the school taking out I think is going to take a longer period of time. By the time November 6th rolls around, we have one meeting the end of Novembei and then a meeting in December and to pull that all together to get a Plan B established and order all that equipment would just be somewhat of an aggressive time schedule I think. In speaking with Kathleen Macy, the principle, she preferred the location on the north side of the school for this particular piece of equipment simply because it fits in so well with what's there and it's really going to Yinish that location out. I don't know what everyone's visualization is for the playground to the west but the equipment which is there is currently definitely undesireable and getting some of the new up to date equipment in there is going to be beneficial. I guess we're struggling with a $6,000.00 or $10,000.00 project, depending on how much the APT comes up with here and just getting, it's a fairly simple project to fit into one or the other. You know we'll certainly do that. Lash: I guess my understanding from Kitty wasn't necessarily that they're willing to contribute $4,000.00 towards the handicap accessible. It's towards the whole project. Like the big scale, like if there was a big thing going to go in. They had on their agenda to try, I mean they have ~ for a couple of years, to try and get new equipment back there. She said this year they really just, they have so many other things that they need to use the money for that they sort of had put that on the back burner and it wasn't a high priority this year. I said well, that this was going on and maybe it was something if we worked together on we could make it be that much nicer if we even had a little extra funding from them and she said oh. Well we'd be happy to do that if it will make it be a nicer product in the end. Hoffman: In speaking with her we went through the plan. The pulling of the merry-go-round and the slide on the north side of the school and having that reinstalled and putting in the new border and the pearock and at that time she exp.ressed that they would be willing to put forth some financial contribution to the handicapped equipment. Lash: Okay. Mady: Todd a question. On the handicap accessible area, you were talking about pearock and a border. What do you put pearock in in the general areas and you put blacktop strip up to the individual pieces so the kids can get up there with their wheelchairs or what? Hoffman: Correct. Yeah, it's pearock around the entire area and then there's the concrete ramps which come into the piece of equipment with the rubber mat overlay. ,.... Mady: Okay, rubber mat overlay underneath the equipment so it's a resilient surface for a wheelchair yet it gives a little bit if they fall Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 7 ~ on it. In the plan, it would be the last page, under the refurbished old equipment you're showing that as being pea gravel. Hopefully that's going to be done shortly. I believe right now it's pretty much just all hard sand in there. Hoffman: Hard sand? Mady: A good friend of mine's daughter broke her arm about a month ago in that area so it's, falling off one of the apparatus. It was a problem when we constructed the new equipment and I guess it's always going to be a problem until we at least get some pea gravel in there. Hoffman: Okay. Mady: Was there any action you were looking for? Hoffman: No. Just additional comment and what has taken place and again Dave Owen will be back with me on the design and the cost factors and I'll be speaking with Kitty Sitter as well again before next meeting. At that time I'm hopeful to bring back a plan which you'll approve of. APPROVE REMOVAL'OF PORTIONS OF VITA COURSE. CITY CENTER PARK. Hoffman: This item is just in walking through City Center Park, it's right next to City Hall here. I walked through there on Friday occasions, whether it be lunch hour. Taking a look at the tennis courts, that type of .~ thing. It's terrible. What, the Vita Course? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: Yeah. So it was installed I'm guessing in 1984, something of that nature. In looking through old files I did finally find something where it was a combined effort with the school district and the Park and Recreation Department. The cost to each of those agencies was approximately $1,500.00 at that time. Right now it is the case, some of the equipment is still being used. The parallel bars, the chin up bars, the rings, that type of thing but the signs are kicked out. The only markings on them are from the lawn mowers trying to mow around the things so prior to removing this we just wanted to run it past the commission to make sure nobody has any heartwarming feelings about that vita course. Just the delapitated, broken down pieces will be removed and then the pieces which are currently being used by children and/or adults will be left. Lash: This is good about the basketball hoop over there. Do you need a motion? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: I'll make a motion that you remove the unsafe and undesireable pieces of the Vita Course at City Center. Robinson: I second it. ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 8 "..... Lash moved, Robinson seconded to direct staff to remove the unsafe and undesireable pieces of equipment from the Vita Course at City Center Park. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. r Mady: Further discussion at City Center Park equipment, while I think about it. And I guess the whole park system. I would hope in the spring when I would guess the City has a staff meeting of sorts with all their maintenance, park maintenance people, especially when you bring in the new temporaries, that they would be instructed to look for problems in the park. Those are safety situations should be dealt with immediately. It's nice to put in new equipment but if we have a problem, just like reading in the paper yesterday or today about the bleachers at South High School and people falling through them and they didn't do anything for months. If there's a safety situation that needs to be dealt with that day. If a guy sees something, he should be talking to his supervisor and those guys all have radios. They should be telling you guys, it should just be automatic, yeah pull it and then we'll deal with it. That's something I wanted to mention on that. Then the tennis courts at City Center Park. At the Oktoberfest I got a pretty good earful from someone concerning the tennis courts at City Center Park and the poor condition they're in and poor Dale Gregory just happened to be walking by just after she was there. I gave Dale about 2 or 3 minutes on it. I guess we need to be conscience of the situation. I know the frost has heaved some of those posts out and there are some fairly severe cracks but in talking with Dale, probably the only thing we can do is overlay that whole tennis court now. Unless something changes, even if the community center passes, there was no plan to moving the tennis court. That was going to stay exactly where it was. So that's something we should be looking at for next year maybe. This woman commented that the City shouldn't be looking to do any improvements if they can't take care of the things they've got. There's somewhere the truth to that I guess. Hoffman: Sure. Just a note on the overlay. The last time we did have a contractor come out and take a look at possibly refurbishing those courts and speaking of an entire overlay, he said you're better off just bulldozing the thing and starting new because if you do an overlay, your cracks are already underneath there and they'll just come back up. Mady: Yeah, and obviously there's the proper base that would happen with all the clay we have in this city, you have to go down a long ways to take care of any of the problems of the moisture that causes in that clay with the freeze thaw cycle. Hoffman: I think Dale has caught enough of an earful on that court and from myself as well that just keeping the weeds trimmed and just keeping it as nice looking as possible will be about the most we can do there until. Mady: Until we get some funding. Hoffman: Yeah, some funding. Mady: I understood and I tried to explain that to this lady but there was no explanation that she was going to accept short of promising that we were going to put a whole new tennis court in there for $40,000.00. So we try. ,..., Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 9 ~ RECREATION PROGRAM UPDATE. Ruegemer: Basically all this is is just kind of a rundown of what was going on this fall as far as recreation programs. We just finished up the Rockin & Rollin class last Saturday and this was the first time this class was offered and it seemed to be a real positive class where people were real interested in and had a really good feedback about it and the price was real affordable for people that cannot afford gymnastic classes around this area. The Rockin & Rollin evaluation have just come back to me in the last couple days. I haven't had a chance to go through those yet and I will update you on those. As far as the kids just worked on flexibility and coordination through different somersaults and different exercises and they also did participate on the balance beam to help try to coordinate their balance and it really seemed beneficial for the kids that participated in this class. A lot of parents were very interested in seeing the possible Part 2 or an additional class of a little bit higher skills for the kids possibly in the near future. Something that can be addressed for possibly the spring. And the Friday Family Movies have been going on since September. They're going once a month on a Friday night usually around the third week of the month. We have had two already. The Little Mermaid and Benji and the Hunted. The attendance has been somewhat low. We'd like to increase that. Maybe with the things kind of winding down for the fall season here possibly we can get some more attendance here coming up the 16th of November for the next movie. Hoffman: I think the video industry's our demise. ~ Mady: Could be. Lash: Well you know even with these other things, I think almost anything in September is going to be doomed to die. There is just so much going on in September for kids and parents going back to school that you just don't have time for any extras. Robinson: And the weather is still nice outside typically. Lash: Yeah. I almost wonder if it wouldn't be smarter to just hold off on some of these things until winter moves in and people are bored and all the summer and fall sports are over. Ruegemer: In these classes and Friday Family Movies have been advertised through the local schools with flyers and posters being distributed throughout the various schools around town. Also through the Villager and Sailor have been little descriptions and ads run advertising for these Friday Family Movies. Lash: I've never been to one. I shouldn't admit that but is it in the gym? Ruegemer: It's in the Chanhassen Elementary small gym. Lash: And then do you have? Ruegemer: We have popcorn and pop. r Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 10 .~ Lash: Is it a projector and a screen? Ruegemer: Yes. It's a regular. Lash: Can yOU hear in there decently? Ruegemer: It's a relatively small area and we have roughly 30-40-50 chairs set up with the large screen right in the auditorium. Robinson: How many were there roughly? Ruegemer: The first one was about 40-50. Hoffman: We had 43. Lash: Well that's a good turnout. And it's a $1.00 a person? Ruegemer: $1.50. Lash: Because you can go to Excelsior for $1.50. Robinson: What's the fee? A dollar and a half? Ruegemer: A dollar and a half. Hoffman: In years past we've tried for 100 and over and have had that many people in the past 2 years. """ Robinson: And you sell popcorn and pop? Hoffman: It's a huge screen. Robinson: Who does it, you two? Hoffman: Basically, yeah. Ruegemer: We did have a couple seasonals help out last time. Hoffman: Staff and spouses. Mady: They get free popcorn though right? Hoffman: Sure. Lash: Well continuing? making, you pay for the are you guys feeling like this is something that's worth I mean if it's taking up a night of your time and if we're know what do we get out of it by the time you get the movie pop and the popcorn. and ,.... Hoffman: Yeah. In the past years it was really quite well attended. This year we switched the months around a little bit. You get a little closer to Christmas and they falloff. The one in January with the skating party, there's 150 people there that come to that but they're coming not for the movie and the skating party both so. Yeah, we'll take a look at it the end of this year and it may just not be worth taking back since the video Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 11 "... market is so readily available that this is almost designed as a more of a social event to get out with other people and that type of thing. They can see most of these movies at home. Ruegemer: And Jan kind of hit the hammer right on the head of the nail there with these, the next program the Dinosaurs Alive. This program was offered September 22nd on a Saturday. It's a program set up to visit a dinosaurs exhibit at the Minnesota Zoo and it appeared to be a really a fun and a good program that would be of interest to the area kids and not a person signed up for it which is kind of shocking in a way because I thought it would be a real good program. We could fill up a bus going down there but I think with September being busy and everybody trying to close up their cabins for the last time and I think people are just relatively busy for the early fall season. So it's something that possibly could be offered later. It possibly could be offered later. Possibly to a different exhibit at the Omni maybe during the winter months. To kind of target that area in Mid-February or March. It's something that can be looked at in the future. Then next is those A-Maize-ing Pilgrims which is sort of centered around the Thanksgiving theme. There are going to be stories and crafts put together in different, try to get some traditional food in here for the kids to kind of get a sense of what the Pilgrims back in the late 1400's and early 1500's, what types of foods and kind of give them a little background on the culture that people had back then. It's set up to be a hour and a half program. Just a one day shot. It's going to be Saturday, November 17th and it's going to be right here in these Chambers. ~ Robinson: Right in here? Lash: Like what are you going to be making? Ruegemer: Oh just little turkeys with construction paper. Lash: I thought it was real food. Ruegemer: We haven't really decided on the craft projects yet. We'll be doing more further research on that. Not necessarily Tom Turkey or anything. Just to kind of get them geared up for Thanksgiving. Lash: So when you say traditional Pilgrim food will be available, so the kids aren't making it? They just get to try it? Ruegemer: It depends how complex it's going to be. Granted we don't have any kitchen facilities down here to speak of. Hoffman: Microwave. Chris Stone, the summer playground director will be the instructor. Ruegemer: And registration is going fairly well. At this point I think we have over 10 kids signed up with a minimum of 10 and a max of 20 so we really haven't advertised for it that much. Just as far as going through the fall brochures about the extent of what, they also like a fall program flyer that went out at the beginning of school. ,... Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 12 ~ Hoffman: If you remember the Pioneer Task Program that we worked with Carver County Historical Society. Those types of programs, with the pioneers or the Pilgrims, they just seem to be the thing that parents are really intrigued with and like to sign their children up with so. Lash: They think it's educational. Pemrick: Sure. Ruegemer: Getting to the Men's 5 on 5 Basketball. We had the organizational meeting the 10th of October. It looks like there's a couple additional teams this year from the 11 that participated in the league last year so we're roughly around 13 teams right now which is scheduled to start the last part of November, early December. Probably go a couple weeks of scrimmages and then start off with games the mid part of December and then all of January, February and then start in-house and State playoffs in March. Robinson: That's over at the big gym over at the school? Ruegemer: The games are going to be played on Wednesday nights at the Chaska Community Center and also at the Middle School at Chaska. Mady: What kind of success did we have with the Chaska Park and Recreation Department in getting a little bit better share of the school facilities? Last I had heard that Tom wasn't too interested in letting us have any of the free school time. He was going to put all his park and rec programs, ~ recreation programs in the school gymnasium and he was generously offering to rent the community center to Chanhassen program. He got free use of the school facilities and we were going to have to pay for ours. Has that changed? Hoffman: No. Basically the current philosophy is all adult volleyball, adult basketball, adult broomball, sports are cooperatively offered between the cities of Chanhassen and Chaska. Chaska Park and Rec, they operate the volleyball, the broomball. Chanhassen Park and Ree operates the Men's 5 on 5 Basketball. So participants and teams from different companies from both communities participate in all those sports but they all take place in that end of town. Now a larger portion of activities will be taking place in the Chaska Community Center so more and more we're losing a handle on the sponsorship or the ownership of adult sports. You'll see a larger portion of adults partaking in activities sponsored by the Chaska Department. Robinson: Who sponsors the adult open basketball? Hoffman: Up here? Robinson: Yeah, on Monday night. Hoffman: We do. Robinson: Do you? ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 13, ~ Ruegemer: There has been fairly decent attendance at these. There's usually been 15 to 20 people each Monday night who play in the adult open gym. It's early in the fall yet so around when the snow flies I'm sure there will be quite a few more. Robinson: I think the brochure said 18 and over or some age didn't it? And thanks heavens they're letting my 16 year old in there. A number of 16 year olds. Ruegemer: There's also a youth open gym offered on Saturday afternoon from 1:00 to 4:00 and there's a breakdown between the younger kids and the bigger kids. Younger have it in the early part of the afternoon from 1:30 to 2:30. Robinson: Isn't that up to 8th grade though? Hoffman: Yeah up to 8th. Ruegemer: Just the cost of that is 50 cents per session. I'm sure attendance will pick up too as the later in the fall. Lash: I just want to comment that I think that's a really nice option for kids in the winter because they really need to get out and run off some steam on the weekends. "'" Robinson: And the gym sits empty there. I used to, when I ran the basketball program have to kick people out at noon when our names got done and they thought that was ridiculous. Why can't we stick around here and shoot baskets? So that is. Hoffman: We are lucky. We've worked enough with the school now where they're being more and more lenient with us to allow us to use our key at our priviledge and go ahead and use the buildings so it's something we've earned over the past 3 to 5 years and we just want to try to keep it. Lash: Good. ,... Ruegemer: And getting into the Halloween Party, the wheels are in motion. We're getting supplies together. Yesterday we purchased the candy for the Halloween party. Also today I did speak with Kathleen...as she is employed with the McGlynn's at the pick-up center. The distribution center up in Eden Prairie outlet and we did order the cookies today. Order 800 cookies and McGlynn's was gracious enough to give us a 20% discount on the bakery goods so we took advantage of that. The total of the cookies totaled $525.00. Volunteers. We still need volunteers in costume. Roughly 4 or 5 or 6 people we have left to do. We are getting volunteers from various groups around the Chanhassen area. We're also getting the Chaska Honor Society volunteered basically as many people as we need, up to say 15-20 people. They would like to get involved in more civic activities. They did help out with the Easter Egg Hunt last spring and they would like to just kind of, as part of their community service be involved in more activities going on around the community. So they have volunteered to help out in this. We still need additional volunteers if you are interested. You can sign up with Todd or myself. Up to date, as of today we have $651.00 in donations from various merchants and businesses around the Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 14 ~ Chanhassen area. We also received from the Chanhassen Dinner Theatres two complimentary passes as part of the donation for the Halloween Party so we can raffle those off at the Halloween night. As of today 47 kids were signed up for the Halloween party which I'm sure we'll be blasted next week with registrations coming in. Two separate flyers have gone out to the schools advertising for the program. This was, the first one that went out let's say put the time on the second one goi~g out. That went out today and there's also been advertising through the schools, the flyers and also through the Villager and the Sailor. Hoffman: You should have waited to see if they caught it Jerry. Pemrick: I did. What time does it start? Ruegemer: 6:00 to 8:00. Lash: What kind of a turnout do you typically get for that? Hoffman: 250. Lots. Lash: That's what I've heard. Robinson: Villager? What does it cost you to advertise in the Sailor or the Very much? Hoffman: Complimentary. .,,-... Mady: Not all ads are complimentary usually with them though are they? Hoffman: No, ads per se are not but community service announcements. They work with us real well. Lash: So that's free but we have to pay to have the agenda put in the paper? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: That's not considered a community service to let people know what's on the agenda? Hoffman: It's official city business more or less. Mady: That's standard throughout the State. ,..... Ruegemer: This year the hayride will be put into place again and we'll be going around City Center Park or roughly around the outside edges so it will be a little bit of decent hayride in there so it should be fun for everybody. Also with the additional programs that are going on at this time in Chanhassen, we have the Kellogg's Hot Shoes. We're just finishing up a session now in I think it's October 31st is going to be the last class. Then the second fall session is going to start around the mid part of November. It's just a program that's put together to increase endurance and flexibility and just to kind of get some exercise. To get everybody healthy. And Breakfast with Santa is going to be offered again this year. Set up for Sunday, December 9th and that's sponsored by the Chamber. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 15 ~ Hoffman: The Chamber, the Park and Recreation Department, the Rotary and the Firemen. Ruegemer: Tickets will be available soon. Winter volleyball. The organizational meetings are going to be the first part of December down at the Chaska Park and Rec Department. They'll just go over the format and league structure of the winter volleyball league and leagues are scheduled to start around the first part of January and go through all the way to the month of March. There's also going to be adult broomball league set up this year. That's sponsored basically by the city of Chaska. They've done all the broomball leagues. That meeting's going to be Oecember 6th on a Tuesday night down at the Chaska Park and Recreation office in their meeting room. And Tom will also go through the league format and information regarding that league that night. This year for next spring there's going to be a 3 on 3 spring outdoor basketball league at the new basketball court at Lake Susan. It's going to be offered to men and women in the different industries around town and also open teams that want to enter into the league. That's going to start probably late April and go through probably Mayor June. Give people just a chance to kind of... (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) Lash: ...all we can to encourage that. I think that's great. Mady: Just think Jan if we would have done that when we were in high school we would have known each other back then. We went to the same school. Same class. We were in the National Honor Society. Picture in ~ the year book. Lash: He must have looked it up. I'll bring it in next time. Hoffman: All this good discussion, I think we missed you on tape huh Jer? Ruegemer: Yep. Lash: I think I found it out like last spring or something. I was at a Girl Scout thing. This gal told me and I drove all the way home and looked it up. There's Jim and I standing right behind me. Can you believe it? Mady: It was a big class you know. Lash: Not to make any either of us sound probably nerdier than we are but obviously he wasn't a jock and I wasn't a homecoming queen. Mady: That about sums it up. We'll move on. Hoffman: We've got to see that. Anyway, back to the tape. You'll see quite a span in there. Ruegemer: It wasn't that much. I just changed it. Maybe a minute or two. Lash: My speech about the kids. Encourage the big kids to do this for the 11 t tIe kids. ,.... Ruegemer: The later part of the speech is on. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 16 ~ Hoffman: Jerry was more on the ball than I thought. So any other input on programs. It seems we talk about programs maybe a couple times a year and other than that we just try to keep our eyes out for what's happening in other communities and our programming base continues to expand with our population and any other ideas or things you run across, don't hesitate to give us a buzz. NATIONAL RECREATION AND PARK ASSOCIATION'S "FRIENDS OF PARK AND RECREATION PROGRAM" . Hoffman: Again in the daily deluge of mail this seemed to stand out as possibly a worth while program for some citizens or board members to be involved with. The cost is $15.00 per year to become a "Friend of the National Park and Recreation Association". What that gets the individual is that monthly newsletter keeping them informed of what's going on in the local and national scene in the parks and recreation field. What it does for the NRPA is give them another body if you will to support their legislative action for other causes of park and recreation. I'd like the commission to discuss the merits of this. We would like to budget 5 of these positions at $75.00 a year and who we should sign up or if we should solicit citizens to sign up for this type of thing or how exactly you want to approach this, if at all. Robinson: What do you get other than this publication quarterly? Hoffman: Yep, the publication. ~ Robinson: Newsletters also? Hoffman: Yeah. I think you're correct, just quarterly. The newsletter or the publication is quarterly, not monthly. Mady: My understanding is this is basically like belonging to a number of like a lobbyist organization really. It's a funding mechanism for them to gain some dollars and they can go about their...political action committee. They use the money to initiate or influence legislation. lash: So would the purpose of this be so that we would be more informed or would the purpose of this be for us to lobby or I mean what would be our main goal? Hoffman: It would be to support our national affiliation, NRPA and as well to receive some more information over and above the NRPA magazine in this Friends of the Park and Recreation Newsletter which is more like the USA Today of information. It's tidbits here and there, that type of thing. You know many of your agencies have. Mady: To be honest with you Todd, I get the NRPA, when I get the magazine I might spend all of 30 seconds looking at it. lash: Not me. I read it cover to cover. Mady: Well good for you. ,..... lash: I look at the pictures. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23~ 1990 - Page 17 ~. Robinson: I was going to say, Jim spends more time on it than I do. Lash: You didn't even know you got it right? Pemrick: It's all the ads I think. Lash: Is it something maybe we can sign you up to be the member and then you would get it and you could put a copy of it in our packet? Mady: I was going to suggest staff members get it and if they find an article of interest, that should maybe be forwarded on to us to keep us up to date. Lash: That would be good. Mady: If someone feels strongly about donating the money, that's great but I don't know. Lash: I think that shows the amount of trust we have in you Todd. Hoffman: Thank you. Just copied the news information, important tidbit information today after the Metro Monitor so they're coming your way. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS: Mady: Were there any commission presentations? ~ ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION: Mady: Did you have any updates Todd? I had a couple questions. Hoffman: Update. The Herman Field acquisition has a new twist in there. Last night at the Council meeting the vacation of Oriole Lane, which is a street which across the street from the Schiferli property, was discussed and we may be able to negotiate obtaining a 40 foot easement solely on the Schiferli property for the access road for Herman Field in return for vacating that road and then not taking a trail easement through that portion. What we would do however is take a trail easement over to the east, more by the mall. Down that portion of the road which is being vacated to access the park on the northeast corner. So then we would have pedestrian access through there and then a roadway access through the 5chiferli property into the parking lot into Herman Field. Mady: Have the Friends of Herman Field been informed of that? Hoffman: Been informed of? Mady: This change that's being discussed? Hoffman: No. Basically it would be, it's an administrative type of negotiation where the Friends of Herman Field have their proposal that they want access. The negotiations at the time when they're completed, then we would contact the Friends of Herman Field and bring them up to date. ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 18 ~ Mady: You don't anticipate there being another appraisal necessary because by the looks of the appraisal of the Lang property, either area, I've got a feeling that the cost of the appraisal was almost as much as the property. Hoffman: $400.00. The appraisal was approximately somewhere in the neighborhood of I would anticipate another appraisal being necessary. Mady: Good. Lash: Just to back up for a second because I didn't have my map in front of me when you were talking. 50 you're saying we could gain access off of Oriole Lane basically for free i~stead of taking the other property? Hoffman: Yep. We're negotiating, we would enter in. Currently we're going to have a staff meeting tomorrow morning and then enter, discuss this item. It was tabled last night at the Council meeting for further review and consideration with the 5chiferli's. The Oriole Lane which crosses through their lot, so they have a piece to the north and to the south, they would like that road vacated. Do you see that Jan? Lash: No. Unless I don't have this turned the right way. I thought Oriole Lane ran north and south. Hoffman: Excuse me, Forest Avenue. Lash: Oh, okay. 50 5chiferli's or whatever, are they number 31? ,.... Hoffman: Yep. 31 and then to the north of that, part of Lot 30. So that portion being vacated through there, this was originally broJght up well over a year ago. Lori's recommendation at that time was to retain a trail easement along Forest Avenue to gain pedestrian access to the east. If we can accomplish that by taking a trail easement along the end of Oriole Lane down into the corner of Herman Field Park, allow them to have that street vacation so they can have a buildable lot there which is not separated by a road or by a trail easement and then to negotiate for that to allow them to have that, we would ask for that 40 foot or 45 or 50 foot easement along their property where the access would be coming in. That may be a solution which is workable and then we don't spend any money. Mady: As long as the area inside Herman Field doesn't require extensive grading or what have you because of the wetland or anything like that, I guess it doesn't really matter. Lash: You're talking one would be the drive in access and one would just be a pedestrian access? Hoffman: Correct. Lash: And the Oriole Lane one would be the drive in? Hoffman: Forest Avenue is the drive in. Oriole Lane is the pedestrian. Lash: So it's really not changing things much at all? ,... Hoffman: No. Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 19 ",..., Mady: Actually it would be a buffer almost better t~ keep pedestrians away from vehicles. Although I doubt there's going to be a whole lot of vehicles. Hoffman: In the context of your question Jim, it's actually better to move more onto the Schiferli's because the Lang's property has a steeper hill which would require more grading. Mady: Okay. Have you received any interest on the Park and Rec Commission openings? Hoffman: I received two applications to date. One additional call. A person picked up an application and showed some interest. I intended to ask tonight whether or not yourself and Larry's not here. They all have the question, what do the people in the two seats which are up, what are their intentions? At some point we just need to have those intentions made known. Not necessarily have to be tonight but sometime in the near future. Lash: When's the deadline? Hoffman: End of October. Yep, the third notice will go out this week. Mady: At this point in time I would guess I'm going to reapply. Hoffman: And Larry says he likes these monthly meetings. He's going to reapply. ,...., Lash: Just speaking for myself and probably the saving of paper, I didn't really sit and read all this stuff about this appraisal. Mady: That appraisal was pretty in depth. Lash: Do you feel it's necessary to have all of that? Robinson: You're absolutely right. Hoffman: It should have been duplexed but it was not. Lash: But I mean just in the interest of saving money and xeroxing and time and equipment and all of that. Mady: Yeah, all I wanted to see was the bottom line and I spent a lot of time finding it. Lash: Use your judgment there and give us the nuts and bolts. Robinson: A question. What's the Park and Rec's association with the CAA? Ruegemer: The CAA is a, I'm sure you're aware of the organization is the Chanhassen Athletic Association. They're governed by their own board and adminstration. What the City has there is a city liason between that group and the city offered support for the park and rec department to help with publications, printing, distribution, facilities, scheduling. ,- Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 20 ~ Robinson: Do either of you, are either of you on any officers in the CAA? Hoffman: Officers? No. For the past 3 years I was the city liason to the Athletic Association. I attended their meetings to keep up to date in what they're doing and how we can assist them. They're registrations, they do the bulk of the registration at a registration day at the elementary school. However, after that city staff, the receptionist upstairs in our department gets the bulk of the registrations after that time. Robinson: Do you or Jerry go to all the meetings? Hoffman: Yes. Ruegemer: Prepare the agenda for that meeting. I did fail to mention that there is going to be the CAA basketball registration is going to be October 27th which is this Saturday from 9:00 until noon. Lash: It says the 28th on here. Ruegemer: 28th? Okay. Lash: But it'd be the 27th because the 28th's a Sunday. Ruegemer: Okay. Not on the flyer? Lash: Yeah. You betchya. ~ Hoffman: But does it say Saturday, October 28th? Pemrick: Midnight to 3:00 a.m.. Hoffman: Well they'll get it right. Ruegemer: They have until November to sign up. Hoffman: At least it's Saturday. Any proof readers in this audience? Ruegemer: ...there's going to be a basketball clinic as part of the NYSCA. National Youth Sports Coaching Association January 5t~. That's going to be on a Saturday. January 5th and that's at the elementary school. steve Hallbreck will be present, Jeff and myself to go over the clinic to get the coaches certified. Mady: That's an excellent idea, the certification of the coaches. Can't reinforce some of the things they need to be aware of and then maybe even teaches them some things they didn't know. Hoffman: Additional comments on the adminstrative section. The community center profile is going to be going out again in the Villager as an insert the week prior to the referendum date. Other than that, the Lasting Woodlands article was very informative in my opinion and copies of that have been passed on to Dale Gregory and the other folks in our park maintenance division and as well engineering and the planning department are starting to work very closely with developers in preserving those trees "",.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 21 JII""'. as you may well have been keeping up with. In the past we've talked about tree ordinances. The City Council has and that type of thing. Mady: Todd, one other item in here. The South Lotus Lake boat access drainage report. I noticed your comment on the field stone boulder wall and I guess I agree whole heartedly that field stone isn't exactly the way to go I don't think. They have a tendency to, they look nice for a couple years and then after the freeze/thaw cycle a couple times, you're finding you're picking up rock and the whole wall comes down. I was surprised we had a problem there. I know you always have some vegetation problems with people drive over the grass and the roads and I knew that that middle holding pond was having problems. I wasn't aware we were getting the amount of water in there that we have. I guess I haven't been down there after a rain storm. Since a lot of the water seems to be coming from developments on both sides of it, has there been any provisions to ask the developers to address this since they are responsible for all their own runoff? Hoffman: Not to my knowledge. Mady: That was my understanding. That any new development if it creates, it's responsible for it's own retention of it's runoff and so the City shouldn't be having to spend dollars I would think to correct a problem caused by a new development. Now if we have problems in our own park, we obviously should be aware of them and be working to do something so that we don't impact the lake negatively but. ~ Hoffman: I believe the engineering department is very in tune with that type of statement and the fact that if you've kept up to date on the water surface, the so called tax. Mady: Utility assessment. Hoffman: Yeah, utility assessment paying for that water surface control. Mady: Does it appear that there is a grant available for about $8,000.00? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: I liked Gary's comments to you back. If\I could read it. I read something about a big boulder walt. Mady: Lash: But also have problems the i.e. grouted rip rap. I don't know what he's talking about but you know what he meant. Hoffman: Yeah. Basically what he was saying is in the design work with Van Doren, Hazard and Stallings they had talked about a variety of alternatives and in their opinion the boulder wall was the best option. Mady: And that's not field stone, it's rounded. River rock. Big river rock. Okay. Does anybody else have any questions? I had one last thing. I think everybody probably got the memo from Don Ashworth of October 11th concerning Todd, or at least the Park and Recreation Coordinator's status. "'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 23, 1990 - Page 22 ~ .I'm assuming that was made official now. You are the Park and Recreation Coordinator? Hoffman: As of November 30th. Mady: November 30th? Okay. I'm somewhat bothered. Not by Todd taking the position. I think Todd's an excellent choice. I am bothered however by a situation in the City having to deal with staff and this is, it wasn't just with Lori. It's something that's been around for a couple of years anyway. Maybe 3 or 4 years. We've seen some staff people, good staff people leave and it's just with the activity I've been hearing. We've gone through 3 planning directors in a couple years. It bothered me to see Jim Chaffee actively looking and everybody knowing he was actively looking for a job because of problems that were taking place and I think there's a serious morale problem in the city. I haven't seen anything being discussed at the City Council level on it. No one seems to be talking about it. It bothers me. As a person who's responsible for hiring and firing my own office staff, people need to be treated in such a way as they're respected and I don't see that happening at all times. I haven't heard or seen anything about it on public record. It's bothered me so long that I felt that somebody had to say it and it might as well be me. Maybe I'm way off base but I've just seen too many things happen in the last 2 years that I think there's some problems in the city and I really seriously believe that on the commission level, all commissions and on the Council level, we have to start respecting our staff and not berating them because they may be presenting an opinion that a particular Councilor commission members doesn't agree with. The City has endeavored to develop standards ~ for their people with job descriptions that these people, what is expected of their job yet when individuals perform their jobs as to the way their job description is laid out, they get berated for doing things and I just wish that some of the people, comments I've heard in the last 2 to 3 years, would understand what they're doing to people. It's just unforgiveable to treat people who are actually doing a good job the way they sometimes get treated and I just wanted to say something. I thought it was too important not to because with Todd taking on a new job, he's going to get some additional responsibilties and some additional headaches and something needs to be said sometimes to make sure other people are aware that you've got to treat people decently to get the best out of them. That's it. Robinons moved, Lash seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8=48 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Recreation Supervisor Prepared by Nann Opheim ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting September 25, 1990 - Page 6 Ct?,e;e~ e' //(7NS" ~ additional funds available that we could gather for say the surfacing material? Hoffman: It's not a guaranteed fund for us but in the opinion of Paul Krauss, it will be, some money will be there available next year and if we make a good showing this time around, it will be available... We may be somewhat surprised by what they cost to even come in for just that trailway and the surfacing and the equipment. Remember also in the 1990 budget we had $4,000.00 in there for new playground equipment at Chanhassen Elementary. ...situation in the shortfall in housing starts...could be added to that $6,000.00 in this first phase in 1990. Lash: So you don't have any idea what we can get for this $6,000.00? Hoffman: In the initial conversations with Mark, who was checking with the different manufacturers. I also have to go through somewhat of a formal bid process and you'd have some type of idea on what type of equipment you wanted and how much surface we're looking at and that type of thing so we'd get a bid estimates. But it's going to be a fairly one piece structure with some activities taking place on it. Probably a large piece for about $40,000.00 and...future years. As well, this equipment is...handicap children. Schroers: It's modular type so it can be added to. Lash: And are you talking about the surface material too? "",...., Schroers: The surface material? Yeah, you just extend the border and the concrete base and expand on it. Lash: But you think for $6,000.00 we could do that and get a couple of, I mean roughly what he's got showing on the thing? Hoffman: On the thing there? We didn't talk about the surfacing material. I do not know if Mark put that in the original... So again, once we find out exactly what the...we'll bring it back to the commission. Robinson: I guess I'd rather not use any additional money at this time. I think if we do. it with the idea that we can attach to it later as funds become available. Again, I don't know what we're going to get for $6,000.00. Lash: What if we can only get the surface? Robinson: Then I say we get the surface material. Schroers: The last time I checked installed it was something like $17.00 a yard or something like that. Lash: The other thing Kathleen said was that the APT has been earmarking funds for replacing the old junky equipment behind the school too so maybe that's something we could try and coordinate with them. Although if they think that we're going to do it, they'll maybe use the money for something else. ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting September 25, 1990 - Page 22 ~ Robinson: I guess, and I was going to say maybe Jan is saying. I guess what I'm saying is, it says no action is necessary. I guess I would have rather, if we were going to do something like this, that it be brought up to us and we agree to spend that thousand bucks down there. Hoffman: We certainly can do that. Mady: This also comes Todd where we've been doing recently with, when the residents from Centex Homes came in here not too long ago and the ongoing parade of new developments would come in asking well gee, can't you give us a little bit more. Well this one's only a thousand bucks. Sometimes it's like $5,000.00. Sometimes $10,000.00. We have been saying it's not in the budget. We've got everybody else asking for it. It just can't get done. I'm concerned that because this one's cheap and easy it's going to get done when we've got all these other things that might take a little more effort to do but they're going to get put on the back burner. This one all of a sudden came out of nowhere and got put right to the head of the class when in the scheme of things, maybe it's real important. Maybe it isn't real important but fr-om where I'm looki ng at this one, all of a sudden it just came up out of nowhere and it's going to, it sounds like it's going to get done in the next couple of weeks. Lash: And we didn't know anything about it. Mady: We didn't know anything about it and we've been fighting and trying to get this tennis court over here and we can't get it done and play structures are getting delayed and not being installed and it just, I don't ~ know. It makes us look bad. Lash: I hate to give a message that we don't want to get anything done. Todd's making some initiative to get something done for a change and I like that so I don't want to act like we're slapping his hands and telling him...but I guess I was just curious with knowing what a tight budget we have, where the money came from. That's what started it. Erhart: And Todd's all red in the face. Robinson: For getting something done for a change. Lash: No, there was a complaint that we never get anything, it seems like we never get anything done and now we get something done and all of a sudden we're jerking the reins. Mady: We'll be patting him on the back in about another 15 minutes. Schroers: Maybe a good way to put this would be that spending this proposed thousand dollars to get this basketball court in here is not going to be preventing us from accomplishing something else that we want to do. Mady: It makes good sense from a public safety standpoint too. Hoffman: The situation was, walked down there with Dale and we said, that area which the current playground structure is on is an appropriate size for the playground area. That equipment should have been ripped out of ,,....