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PRC 1990 11 27 02:'.L'~//l?~ CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION ~ REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 27, 1990 Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Dawne Erhart, Jim Andrews, Wendy pemrick, Curt Robinson, Jim Mady, Larry Schroers and Jan Lash STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor INTRODUCTION OF NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS-ELECT. RICHARD WING AND MIKE MASON. Hoffman: I'd like to introduce Dick Wing. Hello Dick. And Mike Mason. Our two new Council people. Dick was sworn in at the most recent City Council meeting. He will be serving out the 1990 term and Mike will be filling the seat vacated by Jay Johnson. Dick Wing: Thank you. Mike Mason: Thank you. Mike Mason: Don't we get to say nothing? Hoffman: Sure. Mady: Oh yeah. At any time. Our meetings are pretty much open so if you .~ have a comment on anything. Dick Wing: The only comment that I would make is that I served 10 years on the Public Safety Commission and we really...resource of information to the Council and I really feel comfortable with the commissions and I feel extremely vulnerable as a councilman because I know how naive and uneducated and uninformed I am so I really...commissions. Input from you folks. What I want, from my standpoint, comment a lot of support... because I'm not_in a position to know what's going on or even make a decision unless you people have researched it and have the information but what we need is a motion... I think it will be a kind of interesting year.. . Mike Mason: I'll second most of what Dick said. I agyee with the facts but I think the emotions do playa part of it too and I think that also needs to be taken into consideration. But as you may know, one of the reasons I ran was because I do want to maintain, I think a quote from some of ~y literature was, the abundant recreation and park facilities we have here and I just see that as a paramount issue. As I've been paging through some of the information Todd has given me, I'm real impressed with what I've seen. I really hope we continue in the direction we're going in. What Dick said about you guys knowing what's going on and I don't and you're input really will be appreciated. Dick Wing: I just wanted to comment. I have a question..., could I comment on that? ~ Mady: Go ahead. CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING ",.... NOVEMBER 27. 1990 Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Dawne Erhart, Jim Andrews, Wendy Pemrick, Curt Robinson, Jim Mady, Larry Schroers and Jan Lash STAFF PRESENT: . Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor INTRODUCTION OF NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS-ELECT. RICHARD WING AND MIKE MASON. Hoffman: I'd like to introduce Dick Wing. Hello Dick. And Mike Mason. Our two new Council people. Dick was sworn in at the most recent City Council meeting. He will be serving out the 1990 term and Mike will be filling the seat vacated by Jay Johnson. Dick Wing: Thank you. Mike Mason: Thank you. Mike Mason: Don't we get to say nothing? Hoffman: Sure. Mady: Oh yeah. At any time. Our meetings are pretty much open so if you have a comment on anything. ,... Dick Wing: The only comment that I would make is that I served 10 years on the Public Safety Commission and we really...re$ource of information to the Council and I really feel comfortable with the commissions and I feel extremely vulnerable as a councilman because I know how naive and uneducated and uninformed I am so I really...commissions. Input from you folks. What I want, from my standpoint, comment a lot of support... because I'm not in a position to know what's going on or even make a decision unless you people have researched it and have the information but what we need is a motion... I think it will be a kind of interesting year. . . Mike Mason: I'll second most of what Dick said. I agree with the facts but I think the motions do playa part of it too and I think that also needs to be taken into consideration. But as you may know, one of the reasons I ran was because I do want to maintain, I think a quote from some of my literature was, the abundant recreation and park facilities we have here and I just see that as a paramount issue. As I've been paging through some of the information Todd has given me, I'm real impressed with what I've seen. I really hope we continue in the direction we're going in. What Dick said about you guys knowing what's going on and I don't and you're input really will be appreciated. Dick Wing: I just wanted to comment. I have a question..., could I comment on that? Mady: Go ahead. ,.... ."..., "..... ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 2 Dick Wing: You know you look at that map, the development of the city goes up east and across the north. The entire rest of Chanhassen is wide open. I mean you look at this town from the air, it's just a wide open space. If that MUSA line shifts, it's going to be a disaster. Everybody's going to be going for everything. There's going to be rezoning, rezoning, rezoning on top of the comprehensive plan and it really troubles me the issue of trails. Now it was defeated once and the issue I think was kind of muddled at that time. It was tied up with the fire department. Is the Park and Rec looking seriously at trying to make a decision to commitment to a trail system of tying east and west and north and south in a system of trails? And if they're not, because now in the only time to start buying land or putting land aside or dedicating land for this trail situation. Wouldn't this be the time to really get dead serious as a priority for this coming year and try to formally commit. Not a referendum but commit to a trail system. Get the council support and then get the money for that. If we don't do it now, the MUSA's going to shift in the next year or two and it's going to be out of reach. We're going to have to, we~re going to be going through neighborhoods if you don't do it now. Where are you as a commission on trails? Mady: Realistically Dick we've got, we do have the trail plan in place. It hasn't to my knowledge been formally amended to any degree. It's still there in a concept form with phasing, you know necessary phasings. Every time a developer comes in here or a piece of property is being developed in some way, shape or form where the city has an opportunity to address an issue, we are at minimum getting the dedication of the trailways. Getting the land set aside so that we can, if we can't do the trail now, we don't have the dollars from either the city doesn't have the dollars or the developer doesn't. He's doing so much in his development he can't pledge out the dollars for it. We're at minimum getting the land set aside for a trail can go in at some point in time. But we are, we have been actively pursuing getting the trail put in with the development at the same time because, a couple of reasons. One, it's the easiest time to put it in just because you don't have to deal then with emotions from individual homeowners. If they come and see the piece of property They see it's already got a sidewalk in front of it, it's a given. no surprises at all. The second thing is it's always the cheapest do it. The guy's out there. Got his big graders and blacktopping equipment and everything is right there so it's really just an incremental cost of some additional blacktop versus having to pull all his equipment in at a later date and do it. So it's always cheaper at that time and we have been aggressive in seeking that. Staff has been pushing it. Whenever they see the opportunity, they bring it to us so it's been, I think we're still doing that. It's been a priority for me and for I think the commissions. there. There's time to Lash: We've also been meeting with council on that. We met at least once. We had a lengthy meeting and the comprehensive plan was revised somewhat. Has that final thing come back to us Todd? Hoffman: No. Lash: I didn't think so that's, if you get a copy of that one that's finished, that would be the most current information. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 3 JI"". Schroers: We looked at restructuring the plan and prioritizing it and setting it phases so that hopefully at some future time in a referendum it may be more acceptable to the voting public and it might not look like such a large chunk all at once. That big dollar figure and the priority just went in the direction of linking the most likely used areas and the points of interest in the city now and then the future developing was like Phase 2 and Phase 3 but to answer your question, are we doing, do we plan to connect each and west and north to south, the trail plan covers pretty much the entire city. With a variety of trails. Multiple use system for everything from nature trails to pavement. Mady: Staff have anything to add? "..... Hoffman: Basically they've covered the situation which we're currently under. The trail plan did fail twice by very minimal number of votes. 7 votes and 12 votes. Something like that. Both times it was unreal that it could fail by that small a margin twice. Currently as the developments come in, we take a look to see if that particular piece or that particular roadway fits in the comprehensive plan into the overall trail system which has been designed. If it does, then we go after either trail construction or possibly the easement. The upgrading of Minnewashta Parkway, which the plan's currently in process, we're talking with the Engelhardt and Associates who's doing that plan very closely and why there should be trails. Making them know for sure that that trail is certain to be part of it. So as pieces become available, we start gaining them but yes, you're right. As we look at increasing that MUSA line...more steady paces there. Pemrick: I have a comment. I had a call from a neighbor who's real concerned about the highway 101 trail and I dug up my Minutes and I said I'd supply them with what we had discussed as far as Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3. Is that realistic do you think? The south TH 101 wouldn't be touched until 1995 to 2000? Hoffman: Realistic? Pemrick: Yeah. Hoffman: Yes. Pemrick: Not sooner? I mean even if the Bandimere Park would go in and children were needing to ride their bikes? Hoffman: Basically the south TH 101 piece comes in as part of the realignment of south TH 101. The highway itself. So the initial segment coming past Rosemount down Market Blvd. will begin construction in the next coming few years but then after that, the following pieces which cut a little farther east of the current TH 101, won't be until 1995-1997 and at that time the trail or the trail alignment along that south highway would go in there. Mady: Todd, I had a question. You brought up Minnewashta Parkway and I get asked from time to time from a couple members of the city out there about Minnewashta Parkway. Where's it stand and I don't know anymore. ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 4 ."..., Hoffman: As far as the? Mady: The study. Hoffman: The study? Mady: Was it done? Hoffman: No, the study isn't done. It's currently underway. I just was on the phone the other day with one of the persons working on it at Englehardt and Associates. Basically what he tells me right now is they're looking at keeping the trail on the west side of Minnewashta Parkway on the northern route and then crossing over and bringing the trail to the east side on the southern route. Mady: Basically at about Lake St. Joe it crosses over? I don't remember the street there. Hoffman: Yeah, somewhere in that neighborhood. In working with grades and right-of-way and road widths and that kind of thing~ We talked a little bit about what we would like to see as a construction. It may not be a full 8 feet wide. It might be a 7 foot wide path but it's certainly not going to be a 5 foot sidewalk either. It's going to be developed as a major corridor. In the dialogue which he was writing as part of his report, he wanted to know why. He thought it was somewhat odd that that piece just be put in by it's lonesome out there in the west side of Chanhassen and my response back to him is that it's a very important piece ~ of the total puzzle once it is completed but the pure recreational value of just that one piece of trail will give those people west of Lake Minnewashta is just enough. Enough reason to install the trail. Allowing those people to get off the road. Take a walk or take a bike ride. That type of thing. The value of which that presents is really high in my opinion. Mady: And it's the bare minimum of recreational ability they have out there I think. At this point we certainly aren't providing them with parkland. It's important and they've been in here numerous times in my 5 years so it's important to get done. I guess maybe we should get back to' the agenda unless there's some more comments. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Mady: Next item was approval of the October 23rd Minutes. Were there any changes, deletions at all? I've got one on page 18. Todd's first comments on the page, his last sentence. It reads, I would anticipate another appraisal being necessary. I believe you meant not necessary when we were talking about the Herman Field. Hoffman: Correct. Mady: Otherwise I didn't have anything else. ",..... Lash: I just wanted to mention that I appreciated getting the page with the corrections on it. I think that's a good idea. Is that something you're 90ing to continue? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 5 I"'" Pemr ick: Erhart. or not. There was a real minor one on the very back page. Comment by You weren't here. I don't know if you want to claim that comment Robinson: That's the September 25th. That's the corrections from the prior meeting. Erhart: I don't even remember saying that. Lash: I remember you saying that. Pemrick: Oh, okay. I thought that sounded familiar you know when I read that. schroers moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated October 23, 1990 amended on page 18 to change Todd Hoffman's comment to include the word -not- necessary. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously_ APPLICATION FOR CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION. Mady: Todd, did you have any contact with the applicant? Hoffman: Yes I did and basically discussion on this item is among the remaining commissioners. .,..... Mady: Yeah, I understand that. But if that person's not here, I'm not sure. Hoffman: I'll go over the situation. We also have one other additional applicant which came in prior to the deadline. We had a person that stopped in today that was interested. A Mr. David Koubsky applied for the Planning Commission but then also put Park and Recreation down as an alternate. When he turned in his applicantion, it went to the Planning Department. I did not receive a copy and conversations with the Planning Department, he mentioned his alternate application for the Park and Recreation Commission and just said that he didn't hear from me so I'm going to pass these out. We need to put Dave into consideration this evening as well as the fourth applicant for this position. Or for one of the two positions. Mady: Is there going to be an interview? I meah are they going to be here tonight? Hoffman: They're available if the remaining commissioners... Robinson: Tonight? Hoffman: Yes. I would just give them the call and they would stop right up. As it's listed in my report there, it's somewhat of an unusual situation that normally we have 8-9 applicants in which to interview and to minimize the number of applicants which we recommend to City Council. Interview and take a look at. With only 3, you could just choose to pass up all 3 applicants to the City Council and then let them, allow them to ~ conduct the interviews. Now with the fourth person in here, we could do Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 6 I"""'" the same thing. Typically it's about twice the number of open positions. Twice that number of people which we pass up to the Council for their consideration. I have contacted both James Slosh and David Koubsky. They are available tonight. They're at home. If you would wish to conduct interviews, I can simply call them and they'll be here in 10-15 minutes and we can interview them at that time. So I guess it's conversation among your remaining commissioners who are not up for re-election to decide in which manner they would like to progress. Mady: I give off the question. First, would you want Larry and I to leave first before you even talk? Robinson: About even getting them in here? Mady: Yeah. Well, anything. Robinson: No. I'd just as soon interview them tonight if the rest of you don't mind. Erhart: I was going to say pass them up to Council. Lash: I thought if we did do interview, I think I mentioned one time before like last year that I thought maybe the interview questions needed to be evaluated. I think some of them are fine and some of them aren't. Personally I'd like to see us come up with a couple of new ones. Maybe each commissioner come up with something that they think is important and I'm not always real comfortable with them being supplied the questions ~ before. Andrews: Can't we ask our own questions? Lash: Well that's what I would rather do than just, I mean if somebody. You know what do you feel is the role. Everybody gives the same, pretty much the same answer and then what are your feelings regarding conservation and environment. Passive parks versus active parks and you have to go into detail explaining what it means because most people don't even know what it means to start with and then what are they going to say? Hoffman: I think basically the reason for having the same questions is just standardization to attempt to be fair so you're not partial or biased when you're asking the questions. And we can certainly take a look at coming up with some new questions in the future. Lash: We've had people come in 3 years in a row and then they have the same questions every time. Robinson: Maybe we use this as a guide and just wing it. No pun intended there Dick. Lash: But if we were going to interview, I guess I would like to put more. Andrews: Can I reask the question? Are we bound to only ask those questions that are on the paper? ~ Mady: No. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 7 ,-... Andrews: It just sort of sounded like you said we have to in order to be non-discriminatory but then at the same time I'm thinking that's exactly why we're here is to ask questions to discriminate the best from maybe not the best. Lash: But yet to be fair, like Todd said, you know if you knew someone who was coming, you could ask them a loaded question. You know if you wanted to and so to be fair, I think if you have a particular issue that you're interested in, you would want to ask all the candidates that particular question. Schroers: The Commission spent about 3 meetings about 3 years ago trying to come up with questions that were valid and tair and that we felt would meet the criteria that we were looking for at the time so actually this commission put together that list of questions. Robinson: And that was when we had 7 or 8 candidates. I mean we could have spent a good evening here just interviewing Park and Rec candidates so we tried to cut that down a little. Andrews: I'd like to invite them here and ask the questions, even if it's the one that's already printed on the paper. I guess it's important to hear. Erhart: Tonight? ,... Andrews: Well, tonight's the night. Let's get it done. Robinson: That's the way I feel. Andrews: Maybe we can set a time like 9:00 or 9:15 or just say be here at that time and we'll break away from our agenda if we're still in it and do it. Hoffman: Okay. Robinson: Let's do that. Hoffman: Curt, do you want to make a motion on that? Robinson: Yeah, I'll make a motion we interview the candidates tonight at 9:00. Andrews: Second. Lash: Are you going to call both of them then? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Did you say you had someone interested today too? Hoffman: Yes. Mike Parsinen. Lash: Is that something we can consider since it's after the deadline or ,.... I don't know how that works? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 8 ~ Hoffman: No. The new resolution set forth by Council_~P4~~/C~/~~ ~T#~f d P4 A'Q.L,K/"e. Robinson moved, Andrews seconded to interview the candidates for the positions on the Park and Recreation Commission during tonight's meeting at 9=00 p.m.. All voted in favor except Mady and Schroers who abstained and the motion carried. Mady: Okay, what I think we'll do for practicality purposes. We'll continue with the agenda and as soon as, you know when they're here we'll finish the agenda item we're on and then break. And Larry and I will go in the back there. Lash: Wouldn't it be great if we could get done. Erhart: Do we have applications on Larry and Jim yet? Applications filled out on you two. Mady: Todd I'm sure has them on record. Hoffman: They're not to be interviewed by the commission. They're interviewed by the City Council. Erhart: Oh, okay. I didn't realize that had been changed. Mady: I think you guys know where I stand on just about everything. I would hope after... ~ DISCUSSION OF 1991 MEETING DATES AND ROTATING CHAIR POLICY. Robinson: We do fun stuff tonight. None of this development stuff. Hoffman: As we have been doing for the past 6 months or so, we basically continue to meet on a once a month basis and at present levels of site plan reviews and plat applications which are coming through, that type of thing, we can meet on a once a month meeting basis. I'm going to leave that open to the Park Commission to discuss the merits of, we've done it in the past. Discuss the merits of both the bi-monthly or just once a month meeting and then leave it up to the commission to make that motion. Whether they'd like to continue this once a month or go back to twice a month schedule. I would also like to discuss the rotating chair to see if you would like to continue that in 1991 or dissolve that and then go ahead and look to electing Chairs and Vice Chairs in the first meeting in January. Mady: Todd. I was kind of surprised to see the item on the agenda for tonight because it is a housekeeping item that was dealt with on the very first meeting of the year. It would be more properly handled in January when if there are new members of the Commission, they should be able to address that at that time. Erhart: That's what I was thinking too. Andrews: I agree. Why don't we move to table it until then? Lash: The first meeting in January? ,... Park and Rec commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 9 ,.... Mady: Or just not act on it. Robinson: Both the meetings and, both of those items? Table it? Erhart: Rotating chair. Mady: They're both handled as housekeeping items for in the very first meeting. Lash: Do you need to know ahead of time at least for the monthly, for the meeting schedule? Robinson: Yeah. I think we can talk about the monthly meeting schedule. I mean we changed in the middle of the year here to once a month. Why can't we make it official now? Hoffman: Basically the rotating chair, that policy was talked about last January as a housekeeping item. The issue of meeting monthly or bi-monthly is one which we could have discussed it two months ago just to make it, confirm it that we are just meeting on a once a month basis. Mady: Maybe a point of information for the two new Council members. I'm not sure if you understand what our rotating chair has been. ~ichard may, I'm not sure but for the past 3 years I think. 2 years anyway, the Park Commission has appointed a Chairman and a Vice Chair at the beginning of the year. The second year I was chairman, I talked a little bit to Ladd Conrad, on the Planning Commission and there was talk on the Planning .,.... Commission of rotating the chair because Ladd is always at every meeting and it's the very same for me. I think I've missed one meeting in my 5 years so the Vice Chair never had the opportunity of learning what it is to run the meeting and so to make that available and so other people have the opportunity and know how to handle a public meeting. And that way you get other people who may be want to be chair next year. We.instituted a program whereas anybody who was a commission member could request to handle a meeting and then whatever there were, 4 or 5 or 6 people, we'd just take every, you'd get every fifth meeting or whatever and it served us well for the last couple years. Now there's been some co~cern raised by the Council that that may be creating some confusion from the citizens of Chanhassen. Not sure who the Chairman is for a given meeting. Usually what we had handled in those situations, if an item is tabled and brought back at the next meeting and there is going to be involvement from the audience, whoever handled the prior meeting will handle that meeting but it really is, it's only come up I think once in the 2 or 3 years but there has been some concern raised about it so being cognizant of that point and that situation. Lash: I guess as far as the meeting schedule goes, as long as we are able to accomplish what we need to get done once a month, and we've been getting done by 9:00 a lot of times, I don't see any reason to going back to twice a month but I'd like to make sure that we always have options. Leave open the option of calling an additional meeting on a specific issue or if we need a work session or whatever. Hoffman: We certainly would leave that option open. There may be times as ~ we get into some, start up again for the spring construction, that we'd Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 10 .,... start seeing some more site plan reviews and some heavier park related issues as it has to do with park dedication. Land dedication. Those types of things and if there's a special project which we're taking a look at down the road, the Bandimere Park, that type of thing, we'll just call that second meeting of the month to take a look at that issue. I think that would serve you effectively. Mady: I think you'll find that with, until the MUSA line gets moved, there's not a whole lot of land left for new development. We've probably looked at most of the open land now and with the country heading into a recession, or possibly in a recession or what have you, there are less people likely to put their money on the line right now so it will probably continue at the same rate we've been seeing. I would think it's prudent to continue on with the monthly meetings unless Council sees a need for us to be doing something else. Schroers: Do you want a motion on that? Lash: You want to pick a specific Tuesday too right? Hoffman: Second or fourth Tuesday of the month. Whichever you prefer. Erhart: Fourth. Lash: That's what it's been. Mady: I think it's important though we're at the Council meetings so we ~ have problems sometimes with packets being bumped. Hoffman: It's pretty much a wash. Lash: Speaking of which, I for one greatly appreciated getting my packet on Wednesday. We'll kiss your feet after the meeting... Mady: They didn't work on Friday. Lash: Either did I. I had time to read it. Erhart: Unless somebody wants it on the second Tuesday or. Lash: It doesn't matter to me at all. Schroers: If this requires a motion I'll make it. Mady: I guess we'd better then. Robinson: And if another meeting is required in the month, I'd prefer it be the other Tuesday or the second Tuesday I guess. Hoffman: Sure. Lash: Okay, I'd move that we set the schedule for 1991 of being the fourth Tuesday of the month. ~ Robinson: Second. ,.... JIll'" "..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 11 Lash moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission meetings for 1991 be scheduled for the fourth Tuesday of every month. If additional meetings are required, they will be scheduled on the second Tuesday of the month. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mady: You will though review this in January with the planning and stuff? Robinson: As long as we're talking meetings. This would be then the what? How far after Christmas night I guess? Hoffman: The December meeting? Robinson: Yes. Hoffman: We'll take a look of going on the December 11th, I believe the second Tuesday. Mady: Yeah, right now it'd be Christmas night. Robinson: I have other plans thank you. fr Hoffman: The meeting in December is scheduled for December 11th. HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE PLAYGROUND. CITY CENTER PARK. Hoffman: As stated in my memo, this issue was a lot of fun to work on because we're working with somebody else's money but it certainly presents a lot of hoops to jump through to acquire that money. Basically to bring you up to date. We have been working with that $5,898.00 figure which we have in the Community Development Block Grant fund for 1990. Then in discussion and soliciting input from the Chanhassen APT, their Board decided to kick in or allocate an additional $4,000.00 towards the purchase of that handicapped accessible playground structure at the school. So we're looking at somewhere just under $10,000.00 for purchase and/or installation costs in 1990. In looking back, in order to spend that $5,898.00, in working with the coordinator of the State and Federal fund programming, they wanted bids or competitive bids depending on the dollar amount. That $6,000.00 he will accept quotes but taking a look back and trying to get this entire project established on an even basis, if you recall, the $6,000.00 was not going to get us far. So in setting up a park plan area, playground equipment plan as you have it in front of you there, you can see that cost much more than $6,000.00 or $10,000.00. The problem lies in that if we go ahead and get quotes for initial phase or the first portion of the equipment and one company comes in low, then after the first of the year 1991, we have to take quotes again and seek out quotes and we receive low bid from a different company. Trying to match those components just does not work real favorably. So what we're attempting to do is to put out specifications for the $6,000.00. Components which wouldn't make a difference you know which manufacturer they came from. Say the border wood and the cost of the pea gravel and the swing sets. That type of thing. Things which are separate from the total component. Then looking at in 1991, staff has targeted about $15,000.00 of that CBDG money in 1991 for this project. of course that is contingent upon Council approval and contingent upon the program itself coming through in the 1991 year. So the Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 12 .11""'. current status is that Van Doren, Hazard and Stallings is working on specifications for the $6,000.00 to $8,000.00 project or equipment cost, which we'd like to purchase in 1990. Once those specifications are done, we'll solicit phone calls from 2 to 3 companies. Receive those quotes. Bring those to you on the night of the December 11th meeting. Those probably will not be available for your packet. We'll take a look at them that night. Compare the different quotes. Take a look at the benefits, pros and cons of the equipment and decide on a contractor for that first phase. Then in 1991 the money, fiscal year for the COBG program is June to June so the money would not become available until June so we'll have time in January and February to take a look at specifications for the design of the remainder of the playground and then go ahead and solicit bids for that piece of the project. Questions? Pemrick: Did you get a letter from Kitty Sitter? Was that in regards to funding or something? Hoffman: Yep. The allocation of the funding. That $4,000.00 contribution as you may recall, now we have to take that to the City Council. They'll take a look at what's that going to and the City Council does have to accept that donation as part of this project. So I received that letter. I did not return a thank you letter promptly just because of that fact that we do have to take that in front of the City Council for their acceptance. Pemrick: Do they have that money right now? Available? Hoffman: It's available. It's in the APT's bank account. ".... Pemrick: Great. Mady: This past year's Capital Improvement Program we had $40,000.00 I believe it was for City Center Park. Would we not be prudent to have this whole thing bidded out, maybe bid this whole thing out? Bid the phases but make sure the whole thing's bidded out because if the $15,000.00 shows up in 1991, we could do the whole thing. I mean actually have a nice piece of equipment sitting there instead of doing this in a piecemeal basis for the next 4 years and some of the inherent problems that seem to go along with not getting it all done at once. The money's available in our budget. It's been passed along from year to year. I'd like to see us maybe do something up there. We kind of put it on the back burner long enough. Hoffman: Kitty did address that in her letter that you know, we're allocating this $4,000.00. It's not contingent upon you spending, the Park Commission spending the $40,000.00 at City Center Park on equipment but we would certainly like to see that happen. Originally the $40,000.00 for play equipment at City Center Park at the school site was allocated or designated for the west playground. The one just up here behind the skating rinks. This playground site, you know we're just trying to keep the two projects separate as to the north. You certainly have the option to go ahead and mix those funds whichever way you feel would be most beneficial to seeing that both of ,those projects are completed. The playground to the west of the school is certainly outdated and needs replacement as well. And now at least for the time being the community ~ center question at the City Center Park is no longer being considered, that Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 13 ,.... we could look to the purchase and installation of new equipment on the west side of the school. Lash: Is that something we could get moving on pretty quickly so we could maybe put it in this spring? Hoffman: By summer at least, yes. Lash: Okay, just to clarify this in my mind. Phase 1. Is that basically just your surfac& and the scoop or is there something in Phase 1 than that? Hoffman: For the initial $6,000.00, no. Phase 1 would include the scoop, the swings, the surface underneath the swings. The swings are included underneath. The installation of two exerglide swings. Lash: Is that these things here? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Oh, okay. Hoffman: And that surface. And then the purchase of the border wood and pea gravel. What we're trying to do is come up with a figure which closely matches that $6,000.00 so we can ask for the full amount. Lash: So then is Phase 2 the money from the APT? ~. Hoffman: Phase 2. Phase 1, if the figure comes out at $7,000.00, we would pull $1,000.00 out of APT for 1990 and then leave the remaining $3,000.00 for 1991. Phase 2 would be in 1991 would be the additional $15,000.00 in COBG funds which we have just allocated. It's no guarantee. The money has been there year after year. There's no been applicants for it so this year we went ahead and we were fortunate enough to have that money designated for purchase of a handicap accessible fishing pier and then to start this project. My opinion is that the Council and if the money's available, the Council will certainly like to see that we follow through on that project to designate that $15,000.00. Tack onto the $3,000.00 or $4,000.00 left from APT in 1991. Lash: Okay, and then Phase 3 would be? Hoffman: Just the phase that would be tacked on at an additional time. Schroers: Just for your own information Todd, we have removed all the extraglide swings from our facility due to a number of head injuries and replaced them with kiddy swings. The smaller ones that...sharp corners and a pretty blunt end when they co~e back and they have literally knocked people out. Lash: Are those the things that you pump with your arms? Schroers: Yeah. Lash: Because we have those at the kindergarten center. ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 14 ~ Hoffman: That's the one reason which they were looked at to be put into this project because a person with no lower mobility can then operate a swing with their upper body. Schroers: I don't think that we'd have to consider looking at a different type of swing. I think what we have to consider is a safe area behind the swing. Mady: One other question on this one Todd. The play structure's in the middle between the accessible one which will be on the west side and the newest structures are on the east side of this. There's the old set right in the middle there with a very poor surface underneath that. Will we be replacing that surface with pea rock? Hoffman: We'd be looking at the pea rock is, the cost is so minimal but then it's the removal cost and the labor to remove the sand which is underneat that equipment which you're speaking of and then the installation. Mady: I'd be willing to bet that we can get, since we built that system before, we being the parents, the new one, we can get enough man power out there to dig out the sand. Hoffman: And reinstall it. Mady: I guess I'm going to be pushing that at each meeting I'm at simply because a friend of my daughter's broke her arm on that surface this fall <~ and I know it's not the only one that, that occurs from year to year so we've just got to start because there's so many kids using that surface. We've got to get rid of these bad play surfaces and we've just got to start doing it now. We can't hide behind the fact that it takes time or dollars. We can get it done with volunteer man power up there. I know we can so it's just a few shovels and wheelbarrels and it will be done. Hoffman: We talked about that. It's just a situation where the money which is being used for this particular project has to be used under that project. Kathleen would certainly like to see that, Kathleen Macy the principal, would certainly like to see that material removed as well and replaced with pea rock so we'll continue working on that with the school staff and the commission and park maintenance staff to see that that can be done. Lash: I have another question about this too. Did the person, who drew this up? Hoffman: Earl F. Anderson. Lash: Now is that someone, and I'm assuming he knows the capabilities because I have to admit I'm pretty ignorant about handicap and I guess I'm having trouble visualizing a little kid who's handicap going across on this track ride and then going across the balance beam. I mean how are they supposed to do that? Hoffman: That portion of, the ramp structures are designed for a ~ wheelchair bound or handicap person. The track ride can be accomplished Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 15 ,.... with supervision by a person out of a wheelchair and then go across and come back but that Phase 3 is basically created Just to connect them but it's more for able bodied. It's to connect the play structure and it is a piece which is more suited for an able bodied person. Mady: Jan had a question. These Tic Tac Toe walls? You're pretty familiar with these things. 00 they get used? Lash: By typical kids they don't but possibly because. Mady: Wheelchair kids might? Lash: Yeah. I mean there's not going to be that many things they could do that maybe that would be something yeah. they could go up there and maybe they would like to do it but other kids are too busy running around and sliding and swinging and doing all of that that they don't want to spend time standing around playing tic tac toe. Mady: Yeah I hadn't seen kids playing with this so I know you see them at school. Lash: Yeah and typically I don't think. and these porthole windows and stuff, I don't usually see those getting used but maybe in something like this they would get mOTe use. I thought of that when I saw it too and questioned it but I think maybe it would get used. JIll'" Mady: Todd, what are you looking from us? Hoffman: On this item no motion is necessary. Really an update. Again we are looking to have those specifications'back from Mark by the end of the week so we can get some phone quotes. Get those back in here towards the end of next week and that is packet week for the December 11th meeting. So we would be bringing those quotes probably delivering them in person that evening at the meeting that night. Taking some time to review them and then to go to discuss that. Mady: Okay. thank you'. Lash: Can I push you one more time to make sure that we get going on the west side equipment too? Hoffman: We'll have another chance to talk about that tonight in our Capital Improvement. Mady: Right now. 1990 AND 1991 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGETS. Hoffman: I have attached a status report of what has occured. Originally what was budgeted for 1990 and then what has occurred. Due to the transition which took place in the City's Park and Recreation Department this year. coupled with the fact that the community center issue with the location at City Center Park was once again.... a number of these things did not get completed. The total figures were not on there. I apologize ~ for that. You may have gone ahead and added those up yourself but under Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 16 "..... budgeted expenditures the total is $160,500.00. That was what we budgeted in the capital improvement program last year for 1990. Expended year to date is $31,500.00. That does not include the land purchase at Pheasant Hills which came out of that reserve fund so you have approximately $100,000.00 there. Throw in the $1,100.00 which is the purchase of the new furnace at the warming house and you basically come up with a balance remaining of $127,900.00 so there were a number of projects which weren't addressed. City Center Park is the major one there with about $70,000.00 some that out of the $120,000.00 that just never being addressed because of the community center issue. The $40,000.00 for totlot. $25,000.00 for general development. Whether it be improvement of the ice rinks or improvement of the tennis courts, that type of thing. I want to add and just give a brief summary of the projects that were completed so just to update, refresh your memory on what was going on. Where playgrounds. were installed, that types of things. Which master plans, master park plans we had targeted and which ones did or did not get completed. Discussion is in order on the 1990 Capital Improvement Program. The status where we're at. Any final things. You know there's not a lot that's going to be additional to this in the 1990 fiscal year. Basically we're at the end of the purchasing season. We're at the end of the construction season. There will be a few minor things going in there but basically this is it. ,..... Robinson: I was just going to say, we go through this every year it seems like in that we don't spent anywhere close to what we had budgeted and we wrestle with that budget that boy we really need all this. But like you say, when you take $18,500.00 out for Eagle projects and there were none and whatever all that adds up to for City Center because of the community center, that leaves about. Mady: $90,000.00. $90,000.00 between them. Robinson: that way. Yeah. So there's $20,000.00-$30,000.00. It doesn't look so bad At first I thought boy that's terrible to do this every year. Lash: It makes you wish you could do that with your own budget. Robinson: Yeah, right. But can we talk about the areas we didn't complete then and maybe as to why we didn't. Like Lake Ann, the trail through the woods. Is there some reason? Are we getting started too late every year or don't we put enough emphasis on it once we get it in the budget? Hoffman: In the budget? Basically the trail through the woods, the maps I'm just picking up. You know for the past 6 months I was in between positions trying to pick up what was going on in the coordinator's position and helping Jerry along with the work duties which I was passing up. That type of thing and the trail through the woods I started to acquire the maps, the aerials, the topo maps necessary to go ahead and draw that trail' out in-house sometime in the spring. That project was just never completed so basically as I noted in there, I am now going ahead and plotting that route and then possibly before the first of the year, if the snow does not get too heavy, maintenance will get in there and grub out or pullout that portion of the trail. Lash: It's been so long ago I don't even know where it is anymore. Is it ~ up on the west side? Park and Rec commiSS~ing November 27, 1990 - ~ J1I" , Hoffman: Yes, on the west side and it's basically a large wooded area of Lake Ann Park which is a pretty high percentage of the total acreage in there and is not used for a lot of recreational value so it was my thought that putting a pedestrian walkway through there would allow for other park uses to go and make use of that area. Lash: You're just talking about a nature trail? Hoffman: Yes. Mady: There's a creek bed and a nice ravine back in there. Really kind of pretty. Lash: So are you looking to us to roll these things over to next year? Hoffman: We can get into that discussion. Mady: Yeah, maybe it's important to discuss each item on here. Determine if they're still a priority or important or not. Look at what our plans still are. Maybe even reformulate some plans. I think we just need some general discussion prior to doing any motion or anything. J1I" Hoffman: As the initial part of reformulating the 1991...budget, we'll go ahead and we'll take a look at the packet which you received at each individual park. We'll just start talking about what we really would like to see happen in there. How the neighborhood is developing. What are the current resident needs. What's going to be there. How is the growth. That type of thing. To follow through on Curt's request, head on down. South Lotus. Ballfield, play equipment. Master plan. I believe Lori held off on those. We never purchased them during the purchasing process in the early part of 1990 because of the TH 101 realignment so that's another City Center Park situation. Robinson: Yeah. It really is. Schroers: Also because there's some well drilling going on there also. That's all full of clay. Hoffman: We have the two sides of the park. The one, basically the ballfield play equipment was going to be located on the flat space above the boat landing, boat access parking lot. As noted there, that was cleared. Some of the rubbish removed and it was graded flat and seeded this fall so we're not behind in getting some things going as we've been in in the past when once people are requesting facilities and they don't even have grass there so it is seeded and it will be a grass, maintained field next year. Robinson: Did the developer pay for that? Hoffman: For that portion? Robinson: Yeah. The seeding and the grading. Hoffman: That $1 , 500 . 00, "1""e"S"7 !It) ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 18 "'"' Robinson: We can't even do grading for $1,500.00. Mady: Well grading's not cheap. Erhart: Neither is seed. Robinson: No, I thought it'd be much more than that because that's a nice area there. Hoffman: Basically it was completed in house. This includes equipment rental and seed. Andrews: The balance of the $15,000.00 would be to take it from a field to an actual ballfield? Mady: Ballfield. Andrews: Okay, and that's deferred until the realignment happens which will be. Mady: Until they know where it's going to be. They haven't mapped it yet. That's the problem we have. We don't know where it's going to be. Hoffman: It's pushed off until 1992 currently. Andrews: So does it make sense to carry a budget item over for an entire ~ year that we probably are unlikely to even use even in 1991? Mady: I think what it does is reflects it being a high priority item for us. The people who live up there have been in front of us for a couple years now saying we need this. We need this. We need this. It's not a new area. Andrews: I don't disagree that but what I'm saying is a budget is money you intend to spend the next succeeding year. If there's no chance of that happening, it ought not to be budgeted. It can still be listed as a high priority to get on a budget when it's going to happen. Lash: Put in the 5 year capital improvement program the approximate year that we think. Hoffman: It may be wise to budget for the play area. The location of the play area is on the northern fringe of the east end of the park and that would not be affected by the realignment of TH 101. The ballfield location, moving it closer to the highway towards the north may be affected. With the number of residents moving into the town homes there and the new South Lotus Lake Estates area, a tot lot would certainly be welcome. Moving down to the play equipment then. The master plan was never completed. Minnewashta Heights trail study, $7,500.00 in there. Robinson: Excuse me. The master plan. It wasn't completed. Is it, where does that stand? ,..... Hoffman: Basically the master plan, the first common element we would like to have is the configuration of the park. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 19 I"'*' Mady: We don't even know what the park's going to look like and how much land we've got. Hoffman: The configuration of that park is going to change with that realignment and then we might as well hold off until we know what the exact boundaries are of the park will be so we can take a look at what type of structure will fit in there. Andrews: So the timing on that's the same as the ballfield then? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: We don't know what we have until the highway is completed? Hoffman: Correct. Minnewashta Heights trail study and again I believe that means Minnewashta Parkway. If anybody recalls differently. Mady: No, this is the parkway. We anticipated it being $15,000.00 for the road study for both of them so we took half. Hoffman: Basically we're included in part of the road package. Mady: This actually should almost be an incumbrance. Hoffman: This money has not been asked for out of our budget by the ~ engineering department who is overseeing the study. Nobody's asking. Lash: Why don't you give us white out and we'll just. Mady: These guys didn't hear that. Nann will scratch that from the page. . . Hoffman: Moving on to Chanhassen Pond. Grade the trail. Again, the trail has really come along fairly nicely. It's turf trail. It does have some dips and bends and that type in it but in Dale's opinion and my opinion as well in going back in there and trying to regrade and level some of those spots off and get it reseeded is only asking for more problems that low to the lake. Where this money could be used more effectively is if you've walked the trail, is on the south end of Chanhassen Pond Park. When you walk through the woods section. Just when you come into the woods from the west end of the park there's a large drainageway which is being eroded out there and it's unsightly. It's not environmentally sound and it should be corrected so the situation of having runoff into the Chan Pond Park does not continue. So possibly looking at allocating the $3,000.00 or $4,000.00 or whatever it takes to correct that situation may be desireabl~ in 1991. We've touched on City Center Park and Eagle Scouts projects. I have no recollection of why we put $18,500.00 in there but obviously. Lash: I think there's one too many zero's there. Mady: We've had a lot of Eagle Scout projects the prior couple of years and just something happened. They didn't show up. ,.... Hoffman: The bridge cost $3,000.00. Something in that nature. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 20 ,..... Mady: I think we were anticipating some things happening down in Bluff Creek with some of the ravines there could have been expensive. Robinson: I think we had a total we wanted to hit that we thought we could get away with. Schroers: I think $15,000.00 of that was to locate Bluff Creek wasn't it? Mady: Yeah. To find out the distance. Lash: The Eagle Scout's still down there looking. Hoffman: Maybe there's a miscellaneous missing there somewhere. Mady: That kid hasn't been found yet. Lash: How about the tree farm? Wasn't that in there? Hoffman: Tree farm? Yeah, it's listed. I noticed it on the 5 year plan. "..... Mady: We didn't pay anything last year because of the sewer line going through and there was no reason to buy plantings that year because they were going to tear everything up anyways so we just didn't put it in the budget. I believe was the reason. One thing I really want to stress before we move on is the master plan at City Park. City Center Park. What I looked at. 3 years ago. The reason we even looked at City Center Park for a Gommunity center was I've simply walked in the park just to figure out why in the world we've got all this land and we don't have anything on it. I still think it's just a very poor utilization of a facility. We've got so much area that's not being utilized and we've got so many kids. It's the highest density area of the city and probably always will be. We should make better use of that park. We've got kids allover the place trying to play ball in the spring and not enough fields. Schroers: I have a question relating to a budget. I'm not sure which budget. What budget is the community service officer paid from? Hoffman: Community service officer? Paid out of the Public Safety personnel budget. Schroers: Okay. I think that it would be nice to see some of capital improvements protected a little better, especially Lake Susan. Lake Susan is looking really good and the only really bad thing when you go down there is all the broken glass and all the graffitti and if we need to budget a few dollars in order to protect some of our capital improvements here, I think that'd be money well spent and I would like to see some of these vandals dealt with and given a message that that's not what the park is there for. Hoffman: I think we can accomplish that through meeting with Scott Harr, with our CSO's. Taking a look at what they're currently doing. I know they're doing drive thru's in the parks. They only work certain shifts. Vandalism and breaking of glass and that type of thing can occur just about ~ any time during the 24 hour period in a day so I think sitting down with them and taking a look at what they're currently doing in the parks. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 21 ,.... Letting them know that we are concerned and we would like to see some reports back direc~ly to us. Anytime something happens in a park, they file a report. We don't necessarily see it. Schroers: The lake side of the pavillion seems to be a real popular meeting spot for a bunch of the same group of people that like to drive their motorcycles on the grass there and have beer parties and then break the bottles against the pavillion and I've seen the same groups of people down there several times. I think that they should be approached on that. Hoffman: I'll address that particular situation with them Larry. Mady: You might let Todd know after a while what times you've been seeing them so. Erhart: Make a call to the City Larry when you see them. Sneak out of there and go call 911. Robinson: That really is nice down there though. Oh goll it's a nice place and that basketball court. Hoffman: Beautiful. Robinson: It really is. That's a nice area. r- Andrews: Todd, at Lake Susan was the boat launch. Was that done this year or is that for next year? Hoffman: It will be completed in the spring. Andrews: There was additional lighting as part of that project wasn't there? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: That may help some and also create more evening activity there during the summer months at least. Lash: That brings to mind a question that I've had about that too. Is that going to be operated like a Lake Ann with a gate and closed at night and a fee or is that going to be? Hoffman: No. Lash: It's not going to be like that at all? Hoffman: No. Mady: Only if you want it to be. Lash: Well, I mean it just seems like it's kind of a comparable facility as far as having the ballfield and a lot of other things and it's got the lake and maybe we need to look at. .~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 22 ~ Andrews: I think the only problem is it's not visible to residential housing and that's why you have the vandalism. People aren't easily seen there unless you're very close to them. Lash: But do you think at Lake Ann having it closed at night and having a gate attendant tends to cut down somewhat on that? ",.... Hoffman: It certainly can help. The gate closing program is another issue that we work with the deputies and it's not consistently closed and open every evening so it's difficult. We do not have the personnel always scheduled that can consistently close that gate at 10:30 or 11:00 at night and then see that it's opened at 5:30-6:00 a.m. in the morning; We just don't have that available to us at this time. So on a consistent basis is very difficult. Vandalism which we're seeing at Lake Susan I think is occurring once the gravel road, you know the access road was closed off with the development Empak, there was just about no way to get down there other than to drive across a field or access it by foot or motorcycle. That type of thing and the pavillion sat pretty much isolated for a year so those people got accustomed to going down there and not getting bothered. Now with all the new development and lighting and all the new activity which will be taking place there, hopefully that will ease the problem. The graffitti which was painted on the inside of the pavillion on the food serving area there, it's into the porous block tile so we can't remove that. That will have to be painted and there's broken glass and that type of thing there so hopefully that will ease up now with all the activity that will be taking place there. Mady: Todd, on South Lotus, and a couple individuals have already said it looks really nice and it does. I didn't get out and walk the outfield but the grass is unbelieveable it looks like from the parking lot anyway. Hoffman: At Lake Susan? Mady: At Lake Susan. I'm real concerned, since we're not going to be utilizing the field next year that it looks so nice that you're going to find, because I know my softball team's like everyone else out there. They're going to take every available field in the city and if we're going to want to keep people out of there, we're going to have to make it not inviting. And one of the ways of doing that is to put snow fence across the fence so there's a barrier there. I'd like to see that happen at Lake Susan and Lake Ann. The fields at Lake Ann to discourage as m~ch useage as possible so that grass gets the opportunity to grow for the whole year and get nice and thick. Hoffman: However, with the growth that we saw at Lake Susan, I anticipate that we may sometime in mid-June, late June, depending on how things come along, that we may be seeing some use down there. Mady: That's fine but if we weren't going to use it, we need to rest it, we should protect it as best we can. Hoffman: Yeah. We'll certainly attempt to do that. And just to bring you up to date as well on the status of the fields at Lake Ann. They won't be . ~ 100% in the spring. There are some open spots but we will start out sometime in probably either late Mayor early June going on like a 50% Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 23 Jl!'i"" basis on those fields as well. Mady: Okay. That's fine. Andrews: I have a question. We're kind of jumping allover because I guess we're all thinking of what can we,use this money for if we're going to reallocate it and that's what I'm thinking too. With the Lake Ann fields, what were the costs of putting the lighting in on a per field basis? . Hoffman: The lights which are currently there on Field 1? Andrews: Yeah. Hoffman: Those were acquired with a LAWCON grant and the total project cost was $62,000.00. Lights can be acquired on fields for much less than that. You could light 2 fields, surely 2 fields with that much money and depending on the quality of lights, you could potentially light 3 fields with that much money. Mady: And we do have the opportunity to share posts out there which brings up the post that was put down. It's been put back up? Hoffman: No, it has not. I"'" Mady: What's it going to cost us? Hoffman: Somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000.00. Erhart: What happened out there Todd? Hoffman: The vandalism occurred on the night of October 22nd, if I recall correctly in that individuals or a group of people or an individual loosen the four nuts holding one of the light standards at Lake Ann and toppled it over. Mady: Which all it takes is a little bit of wind and they go. Have we taken precautions so that the bolts have been properly defaced so the nuts don't come off easily on the rest of the lights? Hoffman: Instead of defacing them, what we're looking at doing is welding a box which then you could be removed more easily if we just weld the nuts or the bolts and deface them. At some time in the future we need to... Mady: As long as they're looking seriously at doing something prior, as soon as possible because that's. Hoffman: The first bid came in. We've been in contact with our insurance carrier. The first bid came in at Collin's Electric at $11,000.00 so it's a costly night of fun. Mady: I'm surprised it's that high because they don't have to put posts or anything in. They've just got to put the post back up and run the wire. ~ Hoffman: But they've got to. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 24 " Mady: Put new lights in. Hoffman: Yeah. They need to remove the old base and install a new one. Mady: Really? Oh, it busted the bolts off? Hoffman: They busted the bolts off. """ Mady: Okay. One last comment. Since we're kind of in freefall here. Our budget, just so everybody understands how this budget is and where the money comes from and what happens with it. It's not like the general fund. The City maybe is experiencing some problems with it's general fund and revenue shortfalls. Since our money comes directly from developers and we don't spend or plan to spend money until we've actually received it. Now next year we'll receive money we got last year. We're not planning ahead on receiving some money yet. We don't suffer some of the same problems that the general city is. However we do have to realize that when we get aggressive in doing some spending, that that stuff gets put in by city staff who get paid out of the general fund so sometimes there is some impact. One comment I've made in the past. I'm still not, in my mind clear in reading through the Administrative packet, we need to maybe address closer. Lori and I I guess disagreed on this a number of times but that's dedication fees. One of the areas in California I believe it was, they were talking how a developer, when a developer pays a dedication fee, that fee has to be spent in that development. It has to go directly to the people who put the money in. We've always operated on the assumption... maybe at risk. I don't know if it's necessary to have a legal opinion issued by Roger, the City Attorney on it but I've had a problem with this for a number of years that we're spending money in areas of the city that have not generated any monies. Andrews: Why don't we ask for a ruling on that because that gives us a huge. . . Mady: Well, there's a down side to it. If it comes out that we can't do what we've been doing, all of a sudden we can't do anything because the City's not providing any funding for capital improvement other than what we get through developers and then all of a sudden we've got a problem. We can't replace a swing set up at City Center Park. We can't do some things. It's just something I want to keep everybody aware of I guess. Lash: Well it said also some cities did it within a certain mile radius or service area which we kind of operate in service areas so maybe that would be one way to get around it is to figure to try to keep the money within a service area or something. If it turns out that there is a requirement. ,.... Hoffman: Just some thoughts on that. If we would want to look to establishing those types of rules when spending the capital improvement money, we'd have to take a look at basically starting that now and not trying to revert back. It would be very difficult to identify which dollars were spent on this project and which on this project so we would need to start fresh and then basically keep some separate funds. If we would designate areas of the city, then we would have 7 different funds for 7 different areas of the city or something of that nature. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 25 ,.... Mady: It's not something I'm advocating. It's a Pandora's Box but I believe it's something that the entire city bureaucracy needs to be aware of because I believe there's a list there. Hoffman: It's something we should be aware of as a commission and as staff to make sure to address the needs of the neighborhoods which, new neighborhoods which are generating a lot of dollars. We just can't ignore those folks. Erhart: Because they don't end up with anything. Lash: Right. That's a continuous problem. They come in here and they've paid the fee and their park isn't getting done and they can't figure out why. Mady: Then we have the ones that paid the fee and it's all used up and they still want more. .,..., Andrews: I don't see how we can avoid asking for the op~n~on because just by avoiding asking doesn't remove the responsibility that we may have and I don't want to be in a situation where we get sued or in a situation where you get a long term plan and all of a sudden it blows up in our face because all of a sudden we are sued by somebody and we find out we can't do it. If there's a concern there, I guess I feel like it has to be answered one way or the other because it's a major, major change in how we're operating if it comes down the wrong way. I'd certainly prefer to keep it as much of as general fund as we could. Mady: I think we have a disagreement on that. I think maybe what has to be done is, it has to be referred up to Council and let them, because they're the ones that ultimately have to make the decision to go to Roger on that anyways. Hoffman: I can discuss that article with the City Manager and take a look and see if he would like to forward it to the City Attorney for some type of comment. Andrews: If there's a potential risk, we could maybe perhaps deal with it maybe looking on a percentage of money collected from a certain development must be allocated and the rest goes to the general. Some way to address it but I guess I feel very uncomfortable just avoiding the whole question altogether. Lash: I'd like to think that if this isn't legal or whatever, that the attorney would have told us long before now. Mady: unless it's referred to him, he just don't look at things. Unless they're requested to him. ,.... Hoffman: That's a good note to discuss prior to the 1991 capital improvement budget. We're at a quarter to nine. I believe we do have Mr. Dave Koubsky present and he has reviewed the questions so why don't we adjourn. We'll all come down. Go ahead and complete this interview and by that time then the second applicant should be in. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 26 "...., (The Commission broke away from the 1990 Capital Improvement discussion to interview the Park and Recreation Commission applicants. The Commission and applicants were not sitting near microphones so the following is what could be heard on the tape.) APPLICATIONS FOR CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION. Hoffman: I'll just run through the questions. Do you want to give us a little background of yourself? ".... Dave Koubsky: My name is Dave Koubsky. I moved out here about a year ago. I live down in Lake Susan...talking about the park down there. Before that I grew up in New Brighton and Roseville area. It's fairly well established. ...played hockey. Played Little League baseball. Pretty active in athletics and what not. ...went to school and got a degree in geology and... I worked with a civil engineering firm for a couple years out of school. For 2 1/2 years and after that I went to work with the peA, Pollution Control Agency. I've worked with different branches in there. I worked there for a couple years. Then I got hired on here, I don't know if you're familiar with ...Environmental, the St. Thomas program... In there I work as a group manager in underground storage tanks... So with that, I've been living here for about a year. I kind of watched the Planning Commission. When I moved out here and there really wasn't a plan. I watched that develop and things changed a little bit and I kind of got at least a taste of some community effort in goings on a couple times there and just got interested. That's kind of why I, was reading in the paper that commissioners were being offered so I was more familiar with the Planning Commission since I've sat in in quite a few of those meetings... Sat through a lot of controversy so I thought I'd give it a go. Hoffman: Just to clarify. On the application there is a position desired which Dave had indicated Planning Commission so he will be going through this same process with the Planning Commission and then depending on the outcome there... Erhart: Okay. so Planning Commission is first? Dave Koubsky: Really either one. I wanted a shot at getting and being involved and I figure if I interview twice, I might have twice the chance. Maybe not but at least get exposed. ...this afternoon to clarify that and I asked about this and just got a call alittle while ago so I haven't had much of a chance to look these over... Hoffman: Do you feel you have the time to make the commitment? We have a meeting on a once a month basis... Dave Koubsky: I guess I'm looking for a little support here because I'm kind of new and this is the first meeting I've sat in. I've talked to Todd on the phone a little bit about what the time commitment is required for... versus other things and I think I can handle the commitment. From what I understand it's a bi-monthly meeting, sometimes down to once a month. It requires to review the packet and do a little homework and... It's not a full time job. You're not paid for it. But I have enough interest in this ~. and. . . I think I can have the time... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 27 ,.... Hoffman: In your time in Chanhassen, what type of impression have you developed about the current park programs we have here...? Dave Koubsky: It's kind of in it's infancy I think compared to other areas. ...park around here, our favorite one's up at Flying Cloud. We go to that one. The slides going down. We walk there...Lake Ann... Being from New Brighton...we had 3 parks we could walk to with 2 hockey rinks, ball fields. Real well developed. Real nice. In coming out here, we went house shopping and one of the things we looked at...Chanhassen as it grows has to develop it's park structures and you can see it being done. It needs a lot of work. There's a lot of space allocated... Hoffman: And what expertise do you feel you have to add to the commission? ,... Dave Koubsky: Well I'm from an area, and I'm sure you all are too, that was fairly well developed and has nice parks and I've had kids... I know what they like and I remember being a kid I know I liked. I can envision. I like parks a lot better now... When I was growing up they had all those new parks...put those gymnastic things up. Oh yeah. Those were horrible. They weren't any fun so now they're getting fun. You know so I like to see fun parks and I guess I had that vision. I've also got, you know with working with civil engineers, I have to work with developers... I know construction. Light poles fixed when it falls down. They need to replace. I can understand that concept and...working with contractors all the time and... I have an understanding of bid process and how much things cost. So I guess I could, if anything have a lot of good input on that type of working with contractors and bids and what's reasonable... Hoffman: Have you gotten a feel for what you think the role of the Park and Recreation Commission is...? Dave Koubsky: ...asked Jerry, what do these guys do? His response is, because Jerry works with...it seems like you guys work more with the land acquisition and maybe not so much the acquisition but developing and planning. How much funds you have and how you can allocate them so what park gets slides and new ballfields and where you want your hockey rinks and things along that line... Hoffman: Basically the prime role of the commission is to take a look at all those needs... The major drive is to... Fourth question, what is you feeling regarding conservation? Environment and passive parks versus active parks? ,... Dave Koubsky: Being in the environmental field, you know I feel pretty strong feelings toward the environment...as much as possible. I guess in a lot of respects being in a development...understanding of what developers are trying to do and how communities are being shaped. As far as passive parks and active parks, I think you want a combination of both. Lake Ann, you can go down there. If it's active, you get a lot of people involved. ...something around the lake or you can have cross country ski trails or hiking or roller skating... The nice thing about this area is you know down by the river also. They have that Carver County park. That's a real nice passive park for skiing. People in this area have a lot of places to go for passive recreation. I like passive recreation but we can't ignore people who like active recreation as well... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 28 .1""" Hoffman: Can you tell us a little bit about why you desire to serve on the commission? Dave Koubsky: Well I think I've never been involved with a community as far as volunteer work or work of this nature and I've kind of settled down. I might... They're getting involved and that's the first thing we looked at was where's the closest jungle gym... I'm just really interested in seeing how the politics work and... You've got to be involved I think. I'm kind of new out here to the community... Hoffman: Any other questions from the Commissioners? Andrews: ...certain aspects of the Park and Rec process...? Dave Koubsky: I really don't because I'm really not, I haven't sat in on any of the meetings. I don't have a real understanding of how things work other than discussions with Todd of the money allocation which you guys were getting to look at tonight. Of course being in a new area, everybody there wants something right away... There are a lot of kids up there. Erhart: I know a few people up there. "...., Dave Koubsky: Well it is. I mean this summer, in one month, .Halloween was great so I'm not sure...and where things go but I'd like to see, with the newer communities, at least they get something in place... They've got something there. It's not much but... It helps the parents too...- Lash: I'd like to know what you think would be your first or top priorities of things...? ...facilities or programs or whatever? Dave Koubsky: It's kind of hard to say. I came here last year about this time so I had this one summer but that was mostly involved with work... I think the first thing I'd do and I've been meaning to do anyway is get in the car and drive around because I did drive the whole city when I was looking for a house. There's some real nice areas. I'm hoping...and look at parks in those areas... Lash: ...wishes or dreams that you'd like to see done. Dave Koubsky: Well I'd like to see you have like...funds to work with. Give everybody at least some recreational activity. As the city develops, more and more funds should come in. With the tax deficit, I don't know if you can get city funds...and that's slowing down so you probably had a big boost the last couple of years when housing was going way up and now it's going to slow down. Those are hard issues to answer with less funds and more people. How you're going to allocate them. I guess that's your first commitment is trying to figure out how you allocate... I'm not sure. Spreading of the wealth. I think you have to give everybody at least a little... At least they have something. We did put in $500.00 or whatever it was for the house and we're just kind of patiently waiting. I don't know if I answered your question... Hoffman: Just to let you know what will occur then after you leave "...., tonight. This group of commissioners will discuss...whatever recommendation we might make. The Council will be... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November .27, 1990 - Page 29 ,... Dave Koubsky: Good. Thanks for your time. Hoffman: This is James, or Jim Slosh. He was the initial applicant which we had the application for. Jim, just go ahead and tell us a little bit about your background. How long you've been around Chanhassen. Those types of things. Jim Slosh: Well I've been a resident for about a year and a half. I lived in Minneapolis for probably 24 years. Moved out here. Our children are grown. We decided to get out in the country. Found the west suburbs were the place for me so we moved. I have not been too actively involved in the community. Just didn't know what I was looking for... Hoffman: 00 you feel you have the time to make a commitment to the commission and... Jim Slosh: Well yes. Like I said, my wife and I, she works nights 3 nights a week. I have no problem with it. Hoffman: Have you had time to develop an impression of our current park system? ,..... Jim slosh: Not really other than talking with...and there seems to be a good feeling. Your facilities are well taken care of and I live right by Bandimere Park and there seems to be a lot of participation in the youth programs. That's basically... Hoffman: What past experience or expertise or knowledge do you have to add to the Commission? Jim slosh: Well I worked with a lot of...and mainly that's playground use and safety issue. And facilities. They use just about all of our programs. I've been involved with coaching and on the local park board in Minneapolis. Andrews: In working with the Edina Park and Rec... YOu served on the Minneapolis Park Board, how long was that? Jim Slosh: That was a local, Longfellow. That had to be I would imagine between 12 and 15 years ago. Andrews: How long were you active in that? Jim Slosh: Until they got into the high school program. Then I coached my daughter for a year... Hoffman: Do you have a feel for what the role of the Park and Recreation Commission is... Jim Slosh: Well, I feel that what you feel should...and I think you've done a good job from what I've heard. So I think it's part of developing the community in growing. I think that's probably your basic role. The programs seem to be in excellent shape... I would think it's to make ~ recommendations to the Council if that's the way it works. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 30 ",.... Hoffman: What type of feelings do you have in regards to the environment and conservation, passive parks versus active parks? Jim Slosh: Well...I deal with environmental issues every day. Hazardous waste...pesticides. I think we have to educate people of what you're trying to do. If you're just going...let people know what you're doing. I think you're going to need an all around park system. As this community gets a little older, because as some of your residents get a little older, they're not going to be active in sports...picnic areas. Hoffman: And just tell us a little more about why you would like to serve on the commission. Jim Slosh: Well I just feel that with my expertise in budgeting and long range planning, I've attended an awful lot of playground conferences all around the United States... I just feel like I can add, if you have any questions. . . Hoffman: I'll open it up for any questions from the commission members. Andrews: I'll just ask the same question I asked before was, what would you consider to be your highest priority as far as a program or activity that the Park Board should pursue? "'" Jim Slosh: My highest priority? I would probably, my highest priority would be on development and maintenance of the system. I guess I'd have to be honest I don't know an awful lot about. Lash: I think he's talking about future development. Jim slosh: And to maintain what we have. Lash: That was my question. Andrews: I know... Jim Slosh: I don't know if that's what you're looking for. Andrews: Yeah, to get an idea of what you've seen so far and what you consider most important to you personally...looking for your pet projects so to speak. Something that would be, on the one issue...to act now. Jim Slosh: Well, the one issue that really, because I didn't mean to act now was I looked in the paper...and decided this was something I know about. If I'm going to try to become active, this would be one area that I would know. Basically I have no idea what your long range goals are. Andrews: Sometimes we don't either. Lash: ...have a dream or a vision of something? Jim Slosh: Oh no. I'm not a crusader... Like you say, as far as programs, they must be good. I have no bones with anybody to pick on on "'" the way things are run. I don't have children in school. I just feel that I have the time and... Well, thank you. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 31 "".... Hoffman: Thank you for coming. This group of commissioners will go ahead and discuss your application and then make a recommendation on which applicants to pass onto City Council. They will... We taped the interview questions. Again, I'm not sure how much Nann is going to hear. This mic should have picked up a lot of it so we'll just wait and see what we get out of here. CONTINUE DISCUSSION OF 1990 AND 1991 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. Mady: I guess we finished discussing the 1990 budget and what hadn't been accomplished and what had been accomplished and we're moving onto the 1991 budgeting process. Hoffman: Basically what I would like to complete here tonight. You've all received that packet. The most recent updated capital improvement program. If we can just start rambling through that park by park. Taking a look at those. Mady: I guess we can start doing that but one thing that might be helpful for each of us is to maybe each one of us to try to recollect and maybe we should do it verbally, who's come in front of us in the past year requesting things to be done so we make sure we address those in the coming year, if we can. ,.... Erhart: They all have. Mady: I think it's pretty simple. We can look at going down the list to get down to, we've got Bandimere Heights. Herman Field. Curry Farms. All of Lake Susan Hills and the. Schroers: And pheasant Hills four times. Mady: And Pheasant Hills. Oh, and Chanhassen Hills Park. Those were the ones I wanted to make sure we just. Pemrick: I've got two I can comment on. One being Chanhassen Hills. I had a mother approach me who said that the equipment that's been installed is really great but they're wonderi.ng when Phase 2 is coming in already and can they have a bike rack for the kids to park their bikes because they don't have. And my second one is the Bandimere little lot off of Kiowa Trail . Erhart: They've been asking. Pemrick: Will they get anymore advance playground equipment for the older children over 51 Right now it's. Erhart: That's a pretty small we had set for that park. Pemrick: Yeah, but with all the ballgames there and kids families going. Erhart: But I'm saying, ! brought that up...and you told me it was pretty ,.... sma 11 . Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 32 .ifII"" Pemrick: Yeah, it's teeny. Real teeny. Andrews: We also had some request for parking space. Pemrick: That's completed. Hoffman: That area that's in there, they'll blacktop that strip as part of the first road projects. Pemrick: Are they going to blacktop that? Hoffman: My impression at this point is yes, they'll blacktop it in the spring as part of the first road projects and fixing the potholes. That type of thing. They'll swing in there. Pemrick: Great. Mady: 50 they did it on the park side? How much of an area did they put in? Hoffman: Pretty much from park boundary to park boundary. Mady: 50 it's not head in parking? It's parallel parking? Hoffman: No. ,.... Pemrick: Head in. It will be about 8 cars maybe. Hoffman: It will alleviate some of the... 5chroers: 50 about 8 cars and 12 feet in. Pemrick: No, bumpers hanging out in the street but.it helps. Hoffman: As we go through this, we can continue on with the discussion from each commissioner. Just some parameters to think about. We budgeted $160,000.00 in equipment and capital improvements this year, tack on another $10,000.00 for consulting work by Mark and the folks at Van Doren Hazard so we looked at about $170,000.00 plus our special revenue funds allocated for purchase of land. That type of thing. Mady: Do you have our fund balances with you? Hoffman: For? Mady: As they stand today? That's what I'm looking for. Hoffman: Yes. Mady: Because I guess I would like to know where we stand at the end of last year and right now so we, I don't want to see us spend more than what we took in this past year. That's kind of how I budgeted it the past year is I don't want to overspend what we brought in. I'd kind of like to see ~ our reserves being maintained. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 33 ",.... Hoffman: Budgeted revenue for 1990 was $245,000.00. Collected to date is $201,834.00. So we're at 82% with 83 1/3% of the year expired. So my anticipation is that we'll be pretty close but everything's slowing down pretty much now with the expection of the last few housing starts which are coming in prior to the end of the year so we'll be somewhat close. And then expenditures, budgeted expenditures were $170,500.00 and that is under the capital improvement program. Expenditure to date totals on this report $150,193.00. However, that does include the special fund which are set aside for land acquisition so that includes the Pheasant Hills acquisition. It's not separated on here so it's...what we spent on those projects. We just previously talked about. Mady: What's our fund balance? Do you have our fund balance? Hoffman: Fund balance forward, I do not have that with me. But i"teYee~, ~~ our fund balance forward you know it's typically been in the $300,000.00 ~#- figure because our interest for this year is $45,000.00 so our fund balance is fairly healthy. Robinson: What did we come into the year with do you know? Hoffman: Total fund balance forward? Robinson: Yes. ",.... Hoffman: I sure do. It should be in your budget book. Fund balance forward for 1990, $421,750.00. That includes the required reserves and the budgeted, designated budget amount which we thought we were going to take in 1990. Andrews: What was that figure again? Hoffman: $421,750.00. Am I just assuming or did everyone, all the new folks get a budget book? Erhart: I don't think Jim got one. Pemrick: I didn't. Hoffman: Two? Okay, I'll get them to you and then you can go ahead and go through them. Mady: You'll just be doing a new one in two months anyway. Hoffman: Yeah, but it's a good learning process to take a look at how it reads. Our pages and then... Mady: It's great reading. AndTews: Has the City been able to make any kind of reasonable predictions ., as to what funding's going to be and what sort of changes in funding they're going to see from State and Federal government? It's totally up in the air at this point isn't it? "" Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 34 ,..... Hoffman: Very difficult. About all we can determine is that we think building starts will be down about 20% in 1991. Andrews: Of the revenues we generate, how much of that is building starts? Mady: All. That's where it all comes from. Hoffman: No, not all of it. We did get $45,000.00 in interest is a pretty large sum. It's larger than the trail development fees of $42,000.00. Park development fees, if you just want to run down them. Park development fees were $89,300.00. Trail development fees, $42,400.00. Interest is $45,000.00. The donations from the Lion's, which as you saw on your Administrative Packet, we now have los~~ was $25,000.00 and that totals the $200,000.00 or so. ..... Fd" T~ ,c4'T4'.eE Schroers: What was the reason we lost that? Mady: They're pulling out. Hoffman: Pulling out of the certification. Robinson: I wonder if the Chan Lion's will pick that up? Mady: Have you done any chartiable gambling yet? I've got some experience with it Curt. ~ Robinson: Is that right? Lash: Before we really get started on this, it seems like if I recall how this process worked last year. We went through and put down all these things and rolled all this money over and then we ended up with a budget of about twice as much as what we really had money for. Do you have some kind of a ballpark figure to throw at us to start with so we don't have to go back and do this over several times? Hoffman: The budget at $170,000.00 this year, if we follow that same pattern with the budget reserve forward which we need to do and reducing our anticipated revenues by 20%, 25%, our first initial target figure should be somewhere in about $150,000.00 range for capital improvement program and again, I apologize for getting started this late in the season. Normally for the past couple of years we've started this quite a bit earlier. September-October. Prior to that we had done it this way and the last 3, 4, 5 years ago, met a transition. Again the capital improvement process is just something that got put off. Mady: We could do it the old way too. The way it was first done when Curt and I first came on and that was they just said, well we're going to spend $80,000.00 this year and whoever comes in first gets it. Robinson: We wrote it down on the back of a matchbook. ~ Hoffman: What I would anticipate is we'll get through the initial phase tonight. I'll put some of those figures together. We'll bring that back to you in a more complete, concise package next time with the figures. What our fund balance is currently. What we're looking for revenues for Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 35 If"'" next year. What our fund balance forward is for land acquisition. That type of thing and we should really get some close figures in the December meeting and then we'll come back once again for a final review in the January meeting we can pass that up to Council sometime in January for their approval. Robinson: Yeah, I think we really need to know what the receipts are going to be almost. Hoffman: It's an estimate. Robinson: Oh, I realize that but we should have some sort of an estimate on what the receipts are going to be and plan our expenses around that. Hoffman: After that I'll go ahead and continuation of discussion. Robinson: Just one other comment. We had a $421,000.00 beginning balance coming into the ,year and that's really great, especially the $45,000.00 worth of interest on that. But by the same token, we've had a number of people come in here crying that they've paid for this development and we don't have the funds to give them a totlot or whatever they want. I've got a bit of a problem with that. ~ If"'" Hoffman: If you take a look at the 1989 reserves, $110,000.00 of that was reserved for Lake Susan Park which has now been spent with the matching LAWCON grant which we received there. $55,000.00, that was budgeted in 1989. It was increased to $100,000.00 for a reserve for the Lake Ann Park shelter. $35,000.00 has been in that reserve for Herman Field. Lake Lucy access, $75,000.00 again set aside. pheasant Hills acquisition was $100,000.00 set aside. That will be pulled out now and will not show in 1991 because it has been spent. Andrews: I think what we need to do here is change the terminology I think. To me a reserve is like the rainy day fund for things that you have a shortfall in revenue for some future project. What you really have here is money that is already allocated for specific projects. Mady: It's earmarked. Andrews: It's earmarked, correct. So I guess I'd prefer to divide that reserve between money that's already earmarked toward a specified project which is approved and underway versus monies that are just slushed so to speak. If there is such a thing in a budget like this. Mady: Because what you've got there is $375,000.00 out of $420,000.00. Andrews: We don't have a reserve. That money's already spent. Mady: Well, we do maintain a reserve. Hoffman: Acquisition fund. Maintain $100,000.00. Mady: Which we ate with Pheasant Hills. I'" Lash: But we need to think about starting it again. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 36 ".... Andrews: I think we're going to be under some horrendous constraints here with funding coming from other sources. Mady: Well let's see. The $110,000.00 from Lake Susan, if it hasn't gone yet it's gone. Figure it's going to be gone. Herman Field will be gone the end of the year. Probably next year I would guess. That's moving along pretty well. The Lake Ann park shelter hasn't happened yet. I don't know if that ever will happen. Kind of one of those pies in the skies type of thing. Lash: That's one that I was just looking at. I've got to go from the first page. Is that one that maybe that is too much pie in the sky and with so many people coming in and everybody wants just basic playground equipment in all these parks that's going to get used everyday, maybe we need to reconsider that one and allocate that money up. Loosen it up so we can use it in some of these other places that we're going to get a lot of. Not that I wouldn't like to see that go in. It's just maybe that's not something right now we should be doing. Maybe we could put that off. Andrews: I agree. We have a number of new neighborhoods that have nothing. There's a lot more daily visible reinforcement on the parks system when the kids are out there playing on a totlot than it is to go to a park shelter at Lake Ann. Schroers: There may be another way to approach that park shelter at Lake Ann. If we could look at having that as a facility that would pay for ".... itself. Use the funds that we'd generate from renting the facility to pay for it. Hoffman: We still need the $100,000.00 initially to purchase it and whatever monies can be recouped, that could come back into the development fund. Erhart: That would make money though wouldn't it eventually? Renting it out? Schroers: You wouldn't have any problem renting that out, I'll guarantee you. Hoffman: Take longer than we'd be here to pay back $100,000.00. Lash: It's not that I wouldn't like to see it go in. I don't want anybody to misunderstand me. It's just that it's been on there for years and I'm even beginning to wonder now for $100,000.00 what we could even get and would a lot more people be happy getting a tenth of that into their local neighborhood park and give them something. . Erhart: How many totlots could we do for that? Mady: Do well or do? We need $20,000.00 to do them right. Erhart: So you're talking 5 maybe? ~ Mady: Maybe 5. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 37 ~ Lash: But we could do 10 like we did to Chan Hills and Curry Farms. Hoffman: Second addition? Lash: Well yeah but at least they've got something. Mady: I'm going go caution everybody here. Every time, I see it so much in government. Is because you get so many people asking for things you just throw little bits of money at all of them instead of doing one right and getting it done. You start 15 projects and throw a little bit here and a little bit there and you. never really solve a problem. Robinson: I took to that stuff from Lake that the parents can little totlot. It's really believe that. heart what one of the gentlemen we talked to said, Susan Hills. And that is if we just had something gather around and meet and they do that. He said on a a good gathering place for the parents and I guess I I never really looked at it that way before. Erhart: I thought he was kind of out of the norm though. You know happy with just a little but there's so many people come in here and they want so much more. Robinson: Oh, he added you know, he let us know that he wasn't satisfied with that. Erhart: Yeah, but I liked his attitude. II"'*' Robinson: That's true. Erhart: Anything is fine and I'm waiting patiently. Robinson: Todd, excuse me. The back page. Page 24 lists some and I guess really all the pages. what you've got in there for 1988 and 1989, is that actual expenditures? Hoffman: The 5 year capital improvement program? Robinson: Yes. Hoffman: No. That is budgeted amounts. Mady: Those are simply budgets,. Robinson: Oh, okay. spend any $60,000.00. I was going to say. South Lotus Lake in 1989 did not I was certain of that. Hoffman: Remember Curt, we axed the tennis court. That's where it went. Robinson: You bet I remember. Hoffman: So again, to address Curt's issue. A fund balance forward of that much, it is healthy but again we're going to see it dwindle as we've all recognized tonight with the discussions with our applicants and with ,~ all of our thoughts of good thinking our train of thought. With all these new neighborhoods. The pressure to spend that money is here now and we're Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 38 "'" certainly looking at development. Robinson: I didn't understand all of that. Hoffman: Okay. Mady: I think maybe what we need to do then is maybe go down each individual's thoughts on it. What we need to spend. Let's start the process. Let's get moving so Todd has some ideas where our priorities are. Lash: Go page by page? Mady: Well I thought we'd just do it by the last page. Schroers: The summary? Mady: However you want to do it. Lash: Maybe it seems longer to do it page by page but I almost need to look at it to see what the individual things are. Mady: Well that's fine. Lash: Just to see $300,000.00 written in, I'd have to flip back and forth to see what it's all for. ~ Hoffman: Should we go ahead and do it page by page? Mady: Let's keep moving yeah. Hoffman: ...each person and address each part? Mady: Go ahead and start Jan. Lash: Okay, we're on Lake Ann then? Mady: Yeah. Lash: For Lake Ann I guess I already said this. I'd like us to just reconsider the community park shelter. Seeing if that's realistic or if we want to think of using that to meet higher priority needs right now and that's the 'only thing I see on Lake Ann. Mady: In 1990 or 1991? Lash: Well it's in 1990 and obviously we're not doing it so do we want to roll it over to 1991? Mady: What I want to do is get your comments on each, what you want to do next year. Whether we did it last year or going to do it 5 years from now, what you individually want to see us do next year by park. Robinson: And we're only talking 1991? ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 39 ,.... Mady: Yeah. You can bring the monies in from, if it was an item from 2 years ago, and we didn't do it but you'd like to see it done in 1991, that's fine. I don't want to worry about it so much as looking at things that are budgeted in 5 year plan as much as what you want to do next year. Hoffman: That's what we're working on tonight. We're formulating the 1991 capital improvements. Mady: Wish list. This is a wish list tonight. Hoffman: And again, taking Jan's comments earlier. In the past we've come up with an exorbinate amount of...so as we go through these comments tonight, if everybody will keep that in mind. I'm sure your comments will vary accordingly. Lash: Okay. Am I supposed to go through the whole thing? Mady: Just do one park at a time. Lash: Okay. My highest priority for Lake Ann for next year would be the raft. Mady: Okay. Larry, have you got anything? "..... Schroers: My highest priority for 1991 on Lake Ann are all the things listed. The raft definitely. The concession improvements. That thing needs to be brought up to speed so it is on line and useable. The soccer lights. I'm not sure what exactly we had in mind for the handicapped picnic areas but if it would be convenient to work that in before 1992, I'd be interested in seeing that also. Mady: ...1991, we need to do the street curbing to designate our parking areas better. We've got people driving allover the place. Until we get the curbing in there, it's not going to rectify itself. The raft is a necessity. The concession improvements, yeah. We've got to get that done. It just has to get done. The soccer lights. They didn't get that soccer field properly graded I don't believe until late so the grass hasn't really done a whole lot yet so we're not going to have soccer ability this coming year probably unless we get one heck of a growing season early so I think soccer, the lights can wait until 1992. The handicap picnic areas. I don't even know what they are yet. I don't know what that is and why it's $15,000.00. If we're talking about putting in. Hoffman: We're looking at the development of trails from a parking area with handicap stalls to an accessible picnic area where the concrete pad and the appropriate type of picnic tables and then facilities next to that which can be used. Mady: Okay. Schroers: I didn't mean for the soccer lights to be in 1991. Mady: So I'm looking at, mine totals 40 grand is all I'm really looking ~ for in 1991. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 40 ,... Robinson: Is there any funds needed for the new ballfields out there? Hoffman: Yes there are for benches so we'll be looking at having those will cost a rough estimate, $1,500.00. Mady: Won't those be coming out of the referendum proceeds? Have those all been utilized? Hoffman: Not... Robinson: Then I think that should be on there and my only other one is the soccer lights in 1991. And mainly because I know we're short of soccer fields and in the fall it gets awful dark awful early. Hoffman: Other comments? Pemrick: I'd like to see the nature trail leave on. ,... Andrews: Just a general comment would be, I'd like to be for everything but I realize we're limited in the number of dollars to spend and I think what Todd, what you said is other than carry forwards from previous years, we're looking at about $150,000.00 budget or somewhere in that approximate range for 1991. I guess I'll speak more in general terms. I agree that the curbing is important. I think maintenance of the facilities we already have are reduction of maintenance cost for future costs are something we need to do because it reduces the strain on our future budgets. I don't think we have the money for 1991 to look at the lighting. I would agree that the trail. should be completed in 1991. Hoffman: Okay. Erhart: My top three priorities would be the nature trail, the concession improvements and the raft. Don't ask me to put them in order because I think all three of them are equally as important to Hoffman: Okay. Lake Susan Park? Lash: We don't have anything in the budget and I can't think of anything. Robinson: Isn't there a totlot out there? Mady: That's already built. The only thing we out there for next year is going to be the boat access which is already funded through LAWCON money. Lash: So you think that everything? Mady: How about the archery range? Schroers: You can forget about the archery range. I talked to several different archery organizations and they'd be more than happy to use the median on main street. Hoffman: The archery range is part of the project as well. I did receive ,...., a comment and just in sitting down with Dale and going through some of this. Again, it's initial phase of totlot and once the initial phase is Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 41 ~ there, you're always looking for more so the same thing at Lake Ann. I think the use we're going to get at Lake Susan is going to be exorbinant. The one structure which is there sits amongst a huge area so at some point in the future. Mady: We might be best to throw $10,000.00 at the wish list right now and then next month when we come back with the wish list and totals, then we cut then. That's usually how we work this thing. We throw a wish list which comes up to $400,000.00 and then we go down to reality. Andrews: I agree. With the boat access there's going to be a throng of people down there. Mady: Just the way it is right now, you can see it. It's fantastic today. You can't see it now because of the snow but Sunday it was beautiful so. -Hoffman: other than that, obviously we just went through a large sum of money in capital improvements so there doesn't have to be anything else that has to be included. That was the only topic that came to mind was the second phase of the totlot. ~ Mady: Meadow Green Park. The only thing I can remember on on that was the two, the new area come on line. I don't know of any requests for anything. There was a narrow strip of land we built on. We already put kind of a walkway inbetween so do we have any requests for anything in there. I don't know of any. Hoffman: Not any urgent requests, no. The thought was when the neighbors came in that eventually hooking the bituminous from that small segment down through the park and to the parking lot would be desireable just because a bituminous surface is a recreational surface in itself. It lends itself to more activity then trying to cross the grass. Other than that the skating rink goes in there. The totlot is there. The ballfields are there and being used. The basketball hoop is in. The tennis courts are in and being used. We purchased trees over the past few years. Lash: Would we be able to, I was at Meadow Green quite a bit this fall for soccer and would it be possible to get more bleachers for down at the other end? They're only at the one end right? Or even more benches. Anything. Hoffman: Benches are an item. Tables, benches and grills are an item in which we're in need of for a number of parks so additional picnic tables or benches and again looking at each year we're going to have for a while with the development of fields... Mady: Just buy a bunch of them. Lash: Is that something we're thinking of sticking in our budget somewhere? ,...... Mady: what we've done in the past is Lori would talk to Dale and say okay, how many do we need or how many do we have to replace and we got 3 more parks coming on line which need 3 apie6e. That's 9. Okay, we need 15 new tables next year at a cost of and that's how we came up with a number for the budget for tables and benches and I anticipate we'll do something like Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 42 ,... that this year. Instead of doing those by park, we just kind of say we need $20,000.00 worth of tables, benches and grills and we just kind of lob them together. Lash: Okay, then can we put bike racks in there too? project and Wendy brought it up tonight and mentioned think it seems ridiculous that we don't have at least You're trying to encourage people to ride their bikes bike and no place, you don't have anyplace to put it. That's always my pet having that. I just one at every park. and you park your Chain it to a tree. Hoffman: Bike racks, they've always received mixed emotions. Whether they're used or not used. The two that have been put out here have either been vandalised. Schroers: I did an independent study on used or not is directly proportionate to at the present time. If he's in a hurry The bike goes on the rack and he's gone. him, put your bike in the rack. Then go that and whether the bike rack is the state of mind that a kid has to get to the playground, boom. If his mother's there along with to the playground. ,.... Hoffman: As far as bike racks and bleachers, we should probably take a look as we go through these parks and designating a particular park for a bike rack or additional set of bleachers. Currently Meadow Green is probably, along with City Center Park probably one of the healthiest as it deals with the bleachers. There are other parks that currently don't have them that the CAA is using during the summer as well. Schroers: There's one more thing that Meadow Green Park needs and it's not a capital improvement budget item but it's a maintenance item. As much as those fields are getting used, I would like to see them dragged. The infields dragged on a more regular basis. Starting early in the season. Hoffman: Currently they're dragged probably about every other day or less. Only Lake Ann are dragged daily. Other than that they're dragged on a rotating basis. Mady: Ok~y. North Lotus Park. Andrews: I'm the local advocate for that one. We talked ~bout ivy wind breaks there. Or putting some type of vine up. The other thing would be, I coach soccer on that field there. The field is still a little weak. I don't know if we need to either over seed it or restrict access maybe early in the spring to get it a chance to fill in the rest of the way. We had a good rain all summer then September/October we really didn't get any moisture at all and that field did get beat up fairly bad so I don't know if we need to put any money in for that or if that's something that's part of routine maintenance so it can be handled that way. Hoffman: Overseeding? We would need to drop in a couple thousand dollars for that. .,..., Andrews: I wouldn't say it's serious. It might be something that just with proper moisture and just leave it alone for a month it would be enough but then maybe it's something where somebody has to look at it with a little more knowledge then I have and decide if it really needs it or not. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 43 ,... There are some thing spots there. Lash: How about the totlot stuff Jim? Is that something? Andrews: That's tough. I think the kids are the best ones to answer that. The neighborhood is growing up fast. It's not quite the bunny hedge that some of the brand new neighborhoods are. I guess I'd have to get a better idea as to what kind of playground equipment a Phase 2 is. If it addresses the 8 to 12 year old group, yeah. I think we could use it. If it's the 2 to 5 year old group, we're missing the opportunity right now. That's not to say there won't be that age group around but I don't know. Lash: What's it for now? Is it for little kids now? Andrews: Mostly the little kids are up there, yeah. It's a great park. I mean the park gets a lot of use. Parents go up there a lot of night with the kids and kind of meet up there like, the socialization part of it is a function of the park. It does do that. Schroers: What kind of dollars are we going to need to plant that screening? Andrews: Plant the screening? I"'" Hoffman: I was just thinking in my mind here on who to call to get a better estimate than I can come up with. Andrews: If you gave the neighborhood association the permission. Hoffman: coniferous talking 50 $800.00 in Depending on if we do two sides and if we do an outside tree and then an inside vine type of thing, we're probably units at $10.00-$15.00. Something of that nature so $700.00- shrubbery and plant material. $1,000.00. Mady: You have to throw a minimum of $1,000.00 in there and if you don't do it this year, you've just lost one more year. I mean it's going to take 10 years before it's right anyway so you might as well do it as soon as possible. Andrews: But a vine takes a long time before it's thick enough to do any good. Mady: Conifers, Todd's talking a vine. That's 10 years too so anything we do now isn't going to help for a couple years but it's going to help ultimately and it's a permanent solution. Hoffman: It's a good investment. Lash: How long have those people over there been promised this phase 2 of their tot lot and they've been getting put off and put off. Mady: Well it's only been in existence since 1988. r- Andrews: There's been no broken promises actually on this one so everybody's known what the schedule is and I haven't had any particular c:G.&"A!!'P ??t?/T Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 44 ,.... screaming or hollering to get it done. I mean I hate to say that maybe we could get away with one more year there if we needed to but I think we could. Mady: Well at this point in time there's no reason to put it off. That decision can be made next month. Lash: So we'd want to keep that in. Mady: I think it's important to keep it in. South Lotus Lake. Until the road gets set, we really can't do a whole lot. Are we going to be able to put an ice skating rink up there? Flood it? Robinson: You can put a totlot up there I think can't you? Hoffman: Totlot could go in there. Lash: Should we just move that $10,000.00 over to 1991 then? Robinson: I'd like to see that come in with that. Andrews: That's a carry forward then on that totlot? Mady: $10,000.00 there. Robinson: And the tennis courts will probably go in over by the well ""'" house. Hoffman: To update on the skating rink. The drainfield for the wellhouse goes right underneath where we would be putting that and then that would force the frost down into the drainfield and when the city pump overflows, it's a normal occurrence. It's just...pump system works water...and it goes out onto the drain tube so it's a natural occurrence. Robinson: So in other words, Craig is never going to have that skating rink there. Hoffman: It can't go in that location. If a ballfield was developed over by the parking lot of the boat access, you know we could use it just like we do out here. Putting a ballfield in the summer. Overseeding it with annual seed and putting a ice hockey or open skating rink there instead of the other location. Mady: Larry said he'd tell Craig. Lash: Just to back up a second. What you said about bleachers. Are there bleachers at Lake Susan? Hoffman: Bleachers are not a budgeted item at Lake Susan, no. ,Lash: Is that something that we would want to put in? "..." Mady: Well there is, it's not much but it was graded slightly so there is some area to sit. Similar to Lake Ann but not to that degree so there is some natural seating area which is, when we do a park, that was probably Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 44 ,-.... screaming or hollering to get it done. I mean I hate to say that maybe we could get away with one more year there if we needed to but I think we could. Mady: Well at this point in time there's no reason to put it off. That decision can be made next month. Lash: So we'd want to keep that in. Mady: I think it's important to keep it in. South Lotus Lake. Until the road gets set, we really can't do a whole lot. Are we going to be able to put an ice skating rink up there? Flood it? Robinson: You can put a totlot up there I think can't you? Hoffman: Totlot could go in there. Lash: Should we just move that $10,000.00 over to 1991 then? Robinson: I'd like to see that come in with that. Andrews: That's a carry forward then on that totlot? Mady: $10,000.00 there. Robinson: And the tennis courts will probably go in over by the well ,-... house. Hoffman: To update on the skating rink. The drainfield for the wellhouse goes right underneath where we would be putting that and then that would force the frost down into the drainfield and when the city pump overflows, it's a normal occurrence. It's just...pump system works water...and it goes out onto the drain tube so it's a natural occurrence. Robinson: So in other words, Craig is never going to have that skating rink there. Hoffman: It can't go in that location. If a ballfield was developed over by the parking lot of the boat access, you know we could use it just like we do out here. Putting a ballfield in the summer. Overseeding it with annual seed and putting a ice hockey or open skating rink there instead of the other location. Mady: Larry said he'd tell Craig. Lash: Just to back up a second. What you said about bleachers. Are there bleachers at Lake Susan? Hoffman: Bleachers are not a budgeted item at Lake Susan, no. Lash: Is that something that we would want to put in? ,..... Mady: Well there is, it's not much but it was graded slightly so there is some area to sit. Similar to Lake Ann but not to that degree so there is some natural seeding area which is, when we do a park, that was probably Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 45 i"'" the smartest thing we did at Lake Ann. We should always try to do that as much as possible. To use earth as seating as much as possible. It's cheap. Hoffman: Anything else on South Lotus? Mady: Not that I'm aware of. Andrews: Just to refresh my memory. At Lake Ann the warning tracks did go in didn't they? That we talked about? Mady: Not at Lake Ann. Andrews: Lake Susan. Hoffman: Lake Ann and Lake Susan, Dale will be putting them in on the new fields in the spring. Andrews: We don't need to budget that in here or do we? Hoffman: Budgeted amount for ag lime which will go in there is. Mady: I don't know where we stand now with the referendum proceeds on Lake Ann but I know initially we were under budget at Lake Ann so I hope we sti 11 are. ~ Hoffman: We can take a look at that and if we need to budget for the, either all 6 fields or the 3 fields on the older portion, we'll go ahead and do that. Mady: It'd be great if we could. Greenwood Shores? Nothing's showing up. Jan, anything there? Lash: I haven't heard anything. Mady: Okay. I don't know if anybody's heard anything or not. Carver Beach playground which is the park up on top of Carver Beach neighborhood. Not down by the lake. Andrews: What happened to the canoe racks? Did that ever happen? Mady: That's down by the lake. Andrews: Okay. Did that actually happen? Mady: Yes. Lash: What have we got? $3,000.00 for landscaping right? Mady: Landscaping. There was some additional trees, conifers if I'm not mistaken. Hoffman: Along where you were talking in the play area along the border. ,...., Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 46 "..... Mady: Over by the homes. The screen. There are some pretty nice ones over there but it may that some of them just need to be moved but we should leave at least $3,000.00 in. Hoffman: Again, this is another park where we're taking another look but we still have some outdated play equipment. The slide for one. Some of the other play equipment. Any time we go in and touch some play equipment, even though it's outdated, they want something back. But it really is our responsibility to we know it doesn't meet current safety standards to remove that. Mady: Well we do have a new structure there and we did pull the teeter totter out of there. I think that all that's left is really is the slide. Hoffman: The slide. Mady: And the slide isn't as bad as some things are. Hoffman: I think it's about the highest one left that doesn't have enclosed steps and those types of things. So we'll have to take a look at it. I believe that is an Earl F. Anderson piece. It's modular. It can be added onto so if we could do either $4,000.00 or $5,000.00 or a $6,000.00 project in there when we pullout the remaining old equipment and bring it up to date. It's a smaller item than $10,000.00 or $12,000.00 or $14,000.00. ,..... Mady: Why don't we throw $5,000.00 added for updating and then if we don't have the money, we don't do it but at least we can start planning on it. Schroers: Is there an acceptable single rim basketball hoop for outdoor play areas? You know we have the double rim hoops in the parks.. Is there not a single hoop that will stand up to. Hoffman: Abuse? I don't believe so. A recreation standard for our basketball court, you're just talking the double welded? Schroers: Yeah. Hoffman: And your question is strictly money oriented or the cost? Schroers: No. My question is, that they are just very unforgiving. If you...they spit it right back out at you. I don't like them. I like the single rims. Mady: time. Larry's been making money playing horse and now he's having a tough As you get older you need help. Carver Beach linear park. Andrews: Can I ask a question? What's the seating? Mady: That was built in benches and the landscaping on the edge as it terraces down if I'm not mistaken. Hoffman: It may have been a picnic table down in that area. Benches, that ~ type of thing. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 47 ,.... Lash: Is this like where the trail is where you walk from one end to the other? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Larry, you had mentioned something about having little cut out area along it. Schroers: Just an observation area. Lash: Yeah, with some benches where people could sit. Is that what it was? Schroers: I believe you're correct. Hoffman: Along the wooded trail there. Just clearing out some areas and dropping in a permanent bench. Lash: So are you thinking of just rolling over that? Mady: We might as well carryover everything in there then to 1991. Hoffman: Okay. .,-.. Mady: I have Chan Pond Park. I haven't walked it in 6 months. I walked it early in the year. The approaches to the new bridge weren't right but I think they've been graded since then. We do need to do something with that drainage area but that's just a problem on .the south side near the wooded area and we should probably budget that $3,000.00 there. Lash: Do you think that's enough Todd? Hoffman: It may come in somewhat higher if we have the availability to plop in $5,000.00 and then we do a cost estimate study. This winter get out there and take a look and take some addition. If we wanted to do it correctly, it will take some addition of fill material. Whether it be large rock and then covering that up over with black dirt and then a fiber barrier which is protected...so depending on if it is a contracted job out. If we have the ability to do it in house will enter into that as well. So as we get into that process, if we only have the availability of $3,000.00 and we have to do it in house, we can probably pull it off. Just stick the $5,000.00 in there and we can contract. Mady: The problem is, the important time to getting it done is going to be early in the year and the maintenance staff, one. They're very busy with a lot of things and two, has not hired their summer help yet so they're always short staff in the spring just trying to take care of the huge holes in the road that are always going to be there because we have this great clay in this part of the state. I think we would be best off to budget it outside the city and if it can be done in-house, that's wonderful. But it needs to be addressed early on. Hoffman: It is a isolated area. It's not easy access. It's not a simple ~. solution but if you walk that park and the park itself is a natural area. It's being heavily used now. It's very unsightly and it's not right. It's Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 48 ~ a city park shouldn't have an area like this within it so it should be corrected. Schroers: Is there a way to differentiate whether or not these projects like the wood duck stand for 1989 have been done or not? Hoffman: Sure, we can show that. Schroers: Because we're looking at budget items here and we have a number plugged in for them and for like the 1989 and 1990, we don't really have a way of knowing which ones are done. Hoffman: Yeah. We can either highlight them or underline them or something of that nature. ~ Mady: Put an asterick right after them signifying they've been done. I know the off street parking wasn't accomplished. Hoffman: Astericks are used for some other things throughout the budget. Mady: Well some kind of. Hoffman: We'll come up with something for that. Mady: Rice Marsh Lake. ~ Lash: In 1990 we actually did spend $1,000.00 right? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: Wasn't Rice Marsh the one that had the really poor playground equipment there? Mady: Yeah, we replaced it. Lash: We should probably add that $1,000.00 in there. That that was done. Hoffman: In 1990. Lash: Are there any bleachers over there? Hoffman: No. Lash: Because there's lots of games going on over there. Hoffman: City activities going on there as well. And again, just activity within that park, pulling up that old equipment and grading up that new area for the basketball court generated a lot of interest. I received some calls. We wanted a tennis court here for 8 years. What's it going to take? A petition and Jerry and I went down there and measured it and met with this person and first off a tennis court would be 2 feet from the back of the players bench and just about into the slew and just would not fit and the cost is $17,000.00 for a single court, etc., etc.. But then there ~ also was a call from another individual that would like to see additional playground equipment put back in there so it's always that additional Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 49 ,..., playground equipment is the reoccurring request. Lash: You put some new stuff in right? You put some of the new modular stuff in? Just took out the old things? Hoffman: The new modular piece was put in there prior to. Mady: Two years ago. Hoffman: Anything else in 1991? Lash: Bleachers? Mady: Bandimere Heights which is the little park. Pemrick: I commented on that earlier about maybe upgrading the tot lot equipment for a little older age group. There again for children. Some are in high school now but. And as far as, I don't know how feasible this is but while we're on the subject of tennis courts. There's been a lot of discussion on the street on how nice it would be to use that area for a tennis court. Now I know we've got two tennis courts allotted in the big game plan and I think we just want to make sure we keep those in there for sure and if not, consider that area for use. Hoffman: As a tennis court? ~ Pemrick: Yeah. Hoffman: That one's included in the main park are certainly a component which is desireable for like the southern portion. The closest one to there now is the new one at Lake Susan Park. Lash: I just want to protect that concept. But is there an interest in basketball or the volleyball that's on here for 1992? Pemrick: I haven't heard it directly so I don't know. Basketball, there are a lot of backboards in the driveways and what not. Robinson: And you've got the big park going in right next to it there. Mady: It's going to be hard to justify major expenditures in this small park when the big one's going to be put on line in 5 years. Pemrick: Right. Lash: It's also something that's easily moved. Mady: The trouble with that stuff, once it's in boy, when you start to move it, it doesn't. Andrews: Not only does it cost money but it costs a lot of labor. Mady: And it wrecks parts of it. It's never quite right after that. ,.... Lash: But 5 years is a long time. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 50 ,... pemrick: I think if I was going to change anything I would delete the basketball and push on that sand volleyball. That's more of an overall family neighborhood type activity. Lash: Could we move that up to 1991 then? Mady: I don't see a reason to. Erhart: I don't think there's room because they're using it, you know for all those soccer games and I have a feeling right now... Lash: So really we wouldn't be putting anything in there. Erhart: I think they want their soccer more. Schroers: I think there's an option there. I don't think you have to build a sand volleyball court. I think you could just put up a volleyball court and then if it's designated area for volleyball, put in a couple of posts and during soccer season pull the posts out. Andrews: Bleachers would also be a desireable feature there. Hoffman: Okay. Mady: Bluff Creek. ~ Robinson: Like Larry said, we should probably put a location fee in here. Mady: We'll hire Lewis and Clark. Hoffman: Strangely enough along those same lines, on the city base map, the engineering department has been updating that and the park is not designated on there. Taking a look at Bluff Creek Park, we had a person come in who owns some land on the south side, trying to sell it and wanted to know if we were interested in buying it for an addition to Bluff Creek Park. That's another story but just looking at how they had it configured on the map was wrong so now when we update it for 1990, we've got to go back and get the configuration right on the map. Lash: So who knows really? Mady: I think we have to hire Lewis and Clark. Lash: Oh, you do know? Hoffman: Where it is? Lash: Yes. Hoffman: Yes. Schroers: The exact parameters though? ~ Hoffman: It would be tough to locate the exact parameters unless you took a surveyer out there. I know the bottom of the gully. And I know a land Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 51 ",... owner who wants to sell us his land. He's the last lot just before you cross underneath the bridge on the right hand side there and that would provide access through to TH 101 because we don't have it. Mady: Trouble is that's a tough road. Right there, that's an impossible road to make access off of. Schroers: That is the party access for the kids though right there. It's nearly an access. Hoffman: But then you have the railroad tracks as well. Anything we want to take a look at in 19911 Mady: No. Not unless you can find Lewis and Clark and hire them. Minnewashta Heights Park. I guess, I remember a couple years ago when we thought about putting in a warming shelter in there and... (There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.) Schroers: The kids in that neighborhood are now ready, most of them are too old for totlots. Hoffman: The one that is there is probably being used. We've haven't had an outcry for additional equipment. ,.... Schroers: As far as I know, we've never had anyone from Minnewashta Heights come in and request anything. Mady: Not in the last few years. When Ed was here we were talking about that and Nann lives right there and she said well geez, you know we've only got maybe 4 kids that maybe skate at thing twice a year so the utilization's not high so maybe a warming house wasn't necessary. At that time we were talking about the bus shelter concept. Schroers: I think what we need to do is go out to Minnewashta Heights Park and take a look at it and see what we think we can do with it to make it a nice addition for the neighborhood. Lash: Maybe it'd be nice to canvas some of the people who live out there. Find out what they have. What there are for kids. ,The age ranges and if there are any things that they've been dreaming of. Mady: Just caution you since budgets are tight anyway. Lash: But people appreciate that you know. If somebody out of the blue just comes and says you know, we're kind of looking at this area rather than all of a sudden just plop down some new totlot equipment that nobody's going to use and then they're going to think we're crazy. Schroers: You bet. That makes a lot of sense. Hoffman: Okay. Herman Park. ~ Mady: Herman Field. Well we've got that $35,000.00 and it probably will be utilized this year or in 1991,. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 52 ,..... Lash: So we're going to get going on that in the spring right? Hoffman: The next item is an update on that. Mady: So there's $35,000.00 there and hope that's going to do something for next year. City Center Park. I'd like to see us throw everything we've got in 1990 over to 1991. We've been waiting for 3 years to do it. We might as well do it. Erhart: I would agree with that. Lash: I would agree with that too. Hoffman: We'll take a look at this. I'll get some figures on it. We're probably going to have to make a decision between, those are the only two hockey rinks we have in town. They've been there for a number of years. As far as the standard goes in hockey rinks, especially since they're the only two in town, they don't measure up to anything in any surrounding community. But then again we have the tennis courts which we've hounded on and hounded on for the past number of years to do something over there as well. So we're going to be in a difficult position to pick and choose between. You can't just go halfway on a project, on a hockey rink or halway on a tennis court. ~ Mady: That's why it's important to get that master plan redone. I mean let's look at the whole space like it was a bare piece of land. What makes the most sense to utilize the land and then do a project as we can. Each year do a new project. Hoffman: It's not realistic to say we're going to have those both done next year but you're correct. Getting the master plan done. Lash: But would it make sense for us to maybe try to stick a little more money in there so if we needed to do the tennis courts and the hockey rink, we could do both? Mady: A little bit more money, you're talking $40,000.00 for the tennis court and the hockey rinks are going to be $20,000.00 probably. Lash: Well what's park reconfiguration? What's that $25,000.00 for? Hoffman: That involves grading. Mady: Just putting the fields in. Hoffman: Relocation and those types of things and again we're going to have to investigate a cooperative venture on the tennis courts with the school district to see what kind of funding they would be willing to do. Mady: Before we can do anything, we know we've been talking about this totlot equipment for 3 years now. Talking about redoing the park. That's got to get done. The warming house is being addressed right now. I think those are the only things we can seriously anticipate at this time. Chan ~. Hills Park. Those people were in here. They got $10,000.00. They did get the general development done there did they not? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 53 ,..... Hoffman: The park looked very nice. The grading is nicely done. The grass is growing. The trail connection is in there. Two access points. Sand volleyball court is in. This site is graded for the eventual construction of a tennis court and the totlot is in place. Lash: For the $30,000.00 we had down for 1992 and over, what? Mady: The tennis courts. Schroers: Is it possible to move some of these up to 1991? Mady: It's going to be real tough. Hoffman: We're way over the mark already. Mady: You can put them down there and we'll cross them out next time. Lash: I think last year we sort of looked at the ones who got this year are going to get skipped next year. Mady: We try to alternate. Hoffman: We haven't gotten to some of the biggies yet. Mady: Curry Farms. ,;/"""" Hoffman: '91, that's $10,000.00 in there. That would include such things as continuation of development of the playfield, backstop, bases...park trail. We have a master plan. Just continuing the development of that. Lash: Is there more playground equipment included in that? Hoffman: I don't believe so. Mady: It's going to be tough. That development has spent all the money' already and we can throw the 10 in but right now we're stealing it from somebody else again. Lash: That's one I'd like to see up if we could just a little bit... Mady: They could put some money in towards it if they wanted to. That's what we did at Meadow Green Park. Got the neighborhood to. Lash: But they already got the developer to do it. Mady: Yeah, they got the developer to do it but if the actual neighborhood did it, like Meadow Green Park with fund raisers. Hoffman: To help you visualize the next ones, we have a map so you can see where these are. Outlot G is the park that is right in this area. The northern most piece which is in the most populated area right now. It would be the far. ~ Mady: The western side of CR 17. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 54 ,.. Hoffman: Yeah. Lake Susan Hills West. The west side of CR 17, on the north side of the development. It would be the park which has the highest priority for development. It's Mr. Koubsky's neighborhood. Schroers: Is it surrounded by a neighborhood? Hoffman: Yes. It is surrounded by houses currently. Robinson: And there's nothing there? Hoffman: '91 has $10,000.00 for totlot. $10,000.00 for general development. Mady: Put it there. Both. Robinson: Yeah. Mady: When all the sidewalks are in, those people can get someplace, they'll have someplace to go. Hoffman: Outlot H is on the other side of CR 17 along Powers Blvd., or CR 17. Right down in here. Just the one cul-de-sac. Mady: That's that little dinky spot. ,.. Hoffman: Yes. The one cul-de-sac touches it right now. '91 has $10,000.00 for a totlot in there. It's not as developed and then as well; there will be trail connection there to Lake Susan Park which is just a stone's throwaway. Lake Susan Park would be in their service area. Andrews: How many houses are there now approximately? Hoffman: Well on the north side you would look at estimated lots of 45 lots in that area but there will be a lot more development to the south of that area. Lash: Lots there but how many houses there? Mady: Right now there's not many at all. Hoffman: 25-30. Mady: But the ones that are there are right next to Lake Susan. Schroers: Would it be logical to push that up to '92? Mady: I think so. Hoffman: It would be. Andrews: Let's cut that out. Hoffman: Okay. F has got some dollars in there as well. F is the one ~ located within the 4th Addition. We took a look at it. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 55 ,..... Mady: The biggest one. Hoffman: Yeah, it's the biggest active. It's the piece that's split kind of in two pieces by the narrow connection. Mady: The one on the bottom. Hoffman: Brian Olson was in and we took a look at it 4 months ago. Something of that. They reconfigured the land. We're looking at totlot, ballfields, sliding hill, that type of thing. Building permits are just coming in for the 4th Addition. They have completed some of the general grading in there and then we'll need to follow through in the spring to see that they do grade that park to an acceptable level for the potential facilities which we're having in there. Andrews: That's currently totally undeveloped or totally unbuilt at this point though? Hoffman: Correct. Mady: I'd move it. Robinson: Yep. Andrews: I think we ought to move that forward too a year. ",..... Mady: We need a master park plan maybe. I mean those I'd like to see done as soon as possible but any development, that way we're not waiting in April to do that and instead we've got, we can order the equipment in April so maybe leave the $1,500.00 there for the. Andrews: I agree. Pemrick: Is that an administration? Mady: past. No, we try to fund those through the development. Or have in the That's paying Van Doren, Haza....d and Stallings to come up with plans. Hoffman: The only other outlot in that area is the Outlot A, the natural area and we'll be taking a look at that in the future just to come up with a trail system which will link Chanhassen Hills up to Lake Susan Hills. Lake Susan Park. Currently there is a park that's under agricultural til and nobody addressed it so we need to take a look at that. Mady: Outlot G, that's the portion that.'s golog to be near the high density apartments once they're built? Hoffman: Outlot H. High density is going to be close to. Schroers: The north side. That was the first one. Hoffman: G was the first one. ~ Mady: Yeah. That's the one that's going to be near, because H is that little one across on the east side of CR 17 isn't it? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 56 "... Hoffman: And that's where the high density is going to be. Mady: Oh, they moved the high density? I thought it was going to be up over on the west side near Park Drive or whatever. Hoffman: Outlot G is surrounded by single .family houses. On the south side and on the north side it's. Mady: On the north side up by Park, isn't it Park Drive? Or Lake Drive. Hoffman: property. Yeah, Lake Drive East. Industrial. That would be the potential Redmond Mady: Okay, that's H? Hoffman: G. H would be this small park which would be here. Mady: I just want to make sure. Lash: Have them named these strees now so we can go back and try to think...? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Maybe we could do that sometime pretty soon too. ,... Hoffman: That'd be a good idea. We have a few parks to name again. Lash: Well, you know last time it was hard and we thought we'd wait until they had the names of the streets and maybe that would give us some inspiration. He says they have them now. Hoffman: Most of them. Okay, moving on. Bandimere? Robinson: We need a park master plan don't we? Mady: Mark worked on a lot of that. Lash: Is that even a realistic number? That just does not sound like very much money. Hoffman: $10,000.00 for rough grading? Lash: Yeah. Schroers: I think we're past that... Erhart: Especially the terrain is so rough. Hoffman: Maybe that's a rough figure, not rough grading. Mady: I think realistically there's no reason to put any money in this thing at this time because the $300,000.00 will not happen. That's not ~ funded right now. That's going to be a referendum item. There's no way it's going to come out of general. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 57 ,.... Erhart: We could do the rough grading and then we'd be stuck there. Mady: You can't do rough grading until you've got the money to do the rest of it. Erhart: That's what I mean. It'd just be a waste. Hoffman: The plans we had were preliminary plans. They're not a specific master plan but they're certainly useable for discussion as it continues on in the future. Lash: Let's scratch this $10,000.00. Mady: Until you come up with that you're...the City to go to referendum to get that kind of money, there's no sense in even coming up with a final plan because. Robinson: next year. Maybe we should get this on the agenda to talk about it early If we've got a plan. Andrews: I think the climate for a referendum is not going to be very favorable for the next 18 months, 24 months. Robinson: No, but we might as well start planning. Mady: You have to create the crisis environment. I talked to the ",..... individual who ran the school board referendums the last couple times and I asked him, I said, how in the world do you guys get these things to pass? And then I realized some of the comments we've been making in the past is, the schools always wait until they had their backs against the walls and couldn't do anything else and then they passed it. That's how they do things on the school. Whereas we've been more proactive saying we're going to need this next year. Let's get the money now so we can do it and then it never wins. So you can't wait until your back's against the wall. You have no choices in the matter and then you get it passed. Erhart: Well I think too Jim, if it had been a better time financially for some people, I think people would have been more apt to vote on things but I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs. Mady: Well I have a hard time with that in this city. The average income in this city is pretty high. There's just a very negative tax climate right now and until that changes. Erhart: oh yeah, that doesn't help either. Hoffman: And again, looking at a youth park, eventually the growth that we're seeing in the city and the number of activities. We're going to have our own Little League soon. We're going to have a lot more youth sports arenas. Eventually they're going to start knocking on our door for it anyway. Lash: People have to feel the pain first before they're going to be ",..... willing to open their wallets. I don't think they felt that yet. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 58 ,....., Robinson: Did that give you enough? Lash: How about this general acquisition? Hoffman: Do you have Pheasant Hills? A rough draft? Mady: Yeah, there's a rough draft of Pheasant Hills. Hoffman: Tree farm? Mady: The tree farm, we need to fund the tree farm. That's got to be an ongoing thing. We don't have anything. Erhart: I agree. Lash: But we skipped the general acquisition. Do we want to, did we use up, back to page 22, did we use all of that for Pheasant Hills? Mady: Yes. Lash: So we have basically nothing left there? Hoffman: Nothing left there. .,.... Lash: And that's something that we want to start accuring again for out west by Minnewashta don't we? It came in awfully handy having that chunk of money. Andrews: Well Lundgren Brothers came in here and they made it sound like give them time and they'll come through but. Mady: I've heard that one before. Andrews: They have tended to do pretty large projects. Mady: Yeah. The developers always tell you what you want to hear. Lash: Maybe what we can do is leave open. Look at the numbers you come back with for us and then all the extra we have we can put in. Mady: The numbers coming back, we simply need to have, look at current fund balances. What the reserves need to be and what the estimates for budgets for income for the next year is and then we can set it. We just set how much we can spend. How much we have to add to rev and then we just knock that one off. That's how we do it. Lash: But it would be nice to try and start this fund back up again. Mady: It'd be great, yeah. Lash: If we could. Hoffman: Alright, anything else in general acquisition? """ Mady: I don't know of any. Pheasant Hills parkland. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 59 I"" Andrews: Now that we've got the land, what do we do with it? Mady: Well they know they're not going to get anything put right on it. I think it'd be nice to come up with a master park plan and in 1992 maybe be able to do something. That's $1,500.00 for that. Hoffman: Placing that $1,500.00 might be a $2,000.00 figure. Mady: Let's throw $2,000.00 at it then. You know, $500.00 isn't going to break this budget. Hoffman: Anything else? Pheasant Hills. We've gone through the land purchase. They're going to be involved this winter in public meetings, public discussion on what they'd like to see there as part of the master plan process and so they're going to get involved in it and they're obviously going to be hundry for some source of development. It's a lot of site preparation. Tree removal. Dirt work. That type of thing so obviously we're looking for some fairly major expenditures in 1992. Lash: But realistically for next year the plan would be all we'd probably really be able to get done anyway even if we had the money. .,.... Hoffman: Potentially we could do some tree removal and initial site grading if we got the plan completed in the spring. Again, this is one if we look to, as we've done at North Lotus, as we've done at Chanhassen Hills, we did a master plan and then a site grading plan done by consulting firms and then go ahead and have the public works do the site work. They rent a D-9 Cat and go in there and then get that done so potentially that could be done in 1991. Mady: The only other thing is the benches and tables and grills. Then the last thing that's not on here is trails. We're bringing in $40,000.00 in next year, it's just not on any of these plans and that needs to be addressed. But I don't have any specifics on it. I'm just throwing it out. So you'll come back next week, in about 3 weeks with okay, here you guys. Here~s your wish list. We need the wish list. We need to know what the fund balance is to date. We need to know what the encumbrances are. Reserves. However you want to call them. What those are. What the necessary funds are to leave in it and what we anticipate bringing in. Then we can decide how much money we can throw at tge wall. Hoffman: I'll bring those figures forward to you and then right there it will spell out what we think we have available. With that $150,000.00 we're somewhat close...stage and we can take a look at jumping into those fund reserves and maybe knocking off $200,000.00 next year. Mady: I'd also like to see us also leave about $5,000.00 available for Eagle Scout projects because we never know what those are going to be before they come in and when a kid comes in here with a project, he doesn't have the ability to wait 3 years. 2 years or even 1 year. That needs to get done right away so. ~ Hoffman: Thank you very much for all your input. We'll quickly continue on so we can get out of here this evening. Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 60 ,.... UPDATE. HERMAN FIELD PARK ACCESS. Hoffman: Item number 8, Herman Field. An update on this item. As noted. we're working with this vacation request which has been just kind of laying around between the residents and the city staff. They came back in. Pushed again for a vacation of portions of the road which, the roadways which are up there including Forest Avenue and Oriole Lane. Eventually through all that discussion what came about was that Oriole Lane should not be vacated. We should maintain that so we can run a trail easement down into that northeast corner of Herman Field Park. However, we were able to 'strike a deal up with the Schiferli's to gain a 40 foot roadway easement for access to Herman Field Park in exchange for vacating Forest Avenue which the Park Commission has no use for it nor did the city for utility purposes or anything of that nature at this time so that was the situation. The deal we struck up with them and approved at the City Council and then currently our planning department is working with an outside firm in getting the documents, those easements documented and go from there with the construction of an access road and development of Herman Field Park. Lash: So that would be a driving access by the Schiferli and the pedestrian one is the one off of Oriole Lane? Itjoffman: Yes. Lash: I get confused on that one all the time. ,..... PROGRAM EVALUATIONS. Mady: Why don't we move on to Program Evaluations. Does anybody have, just because of the time, I don't know if we need Jerry to go through a whole lot on this. Ruegemer: Did everybody review it? Are there any questions regarding either evaluation? Pemrick: I had a question on the Rockin' and Rolling. What's the age group? What's the age level for that? Ruegemer: That was 4, 5 and 6. Pemrick: That sounds like a nifty program. Ruegemer: We're looking for additional, older aged kids. Andrews: How many sessions was that? Ruegemer: It was 4 Saturdays. Andrews: For $5.00? Ruegemer: Yes. ,..... Andrews: Can we afford to do it that cheap? Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 61 ,.... Ruegemer: There wasn't really that much of a cost involved other than just mainly an hourly wage for that instruction. The equipment we've got from the school. The mats and beams. Erhart: How many kids in this...? Ruegemer: We had 13 for this one. That's a little bit high... Andrews: I was reading over the softball critiques and there were lots of comments made with sort of that were questions like in we have a problem, we've got to look into. I'm assume those are things that will be coming back in the spring or closer to the season about specific recommendations. A lot of comments made about eligibility I know. Mady: I didn't see anything new in the comments. Lash: Splitting the division? I mean are you considering these things that are. Mady: There are two teams that are going to be asked to be split out and that's about it. I just asked Larry, which team are you guys going to play in. Division are you guys going to play in. Lash: No, but are you thinking about that? ,.... Ruegemer: Not necessarily for the Over 35 but for other divisions. Lash: Splitting it? The Over 35 is the one that needs to be split. Mady: Actually I don't think it's a player that anybody gets overly too excited about. There's a few teams that get excited. Lash: which team are you on? Mady: One of the... Lash: I know. I know people who get excited about it and they definitely want to see it split. Mady: The trouble is though, who makes the determination. The teams that lose all the time would like to split. Lash: Well look at the standards. Robinson: This is a good evaluation again I think Jerry and we should take it to heart and try to correct some of the inefficiencies. Ruegemer: You know too, with the industrial, there seems to be a lot of in~ormation in the industrial versus the other leagues that's just kind of a basic overall. The same questions came up throughout all the leagues. The industrial's just the one that I went in depth in so keep that in mind. Other leagues are also important. ~ Hoffman: This will be a standard. An evaluation will be standard for all programs which we run. It's a good feedback measure. We're providing a Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 62 ."" , service. We should know how we're doing in that service and if any changes or corrections should be made. ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION. Mady: In the Administrative Section, I've got a question on the ordinance that was adopted dealing with malt liquor. I read through it one time and got confused and then dropped and I thought staff would really help me through it right now. What are we doing with malt liquor in the parks, or liquor in the parks? Hoffman: Did you notice that there was a duplication of pages in there? The gambling part? Mady: Yeah, I got lost. "" Hoffman: This is a memo about the clarification was supposed to be that second gambling one. Basically, the signs at Lake Ann Park which said only 3.2 beer is allowed within city parks. Our city ordinance said malt liquor was allowed in city parks. Malt liquor includes all beer beverages, 3.2 or strong beer. So the deputies were on occasion ticketing people for drinking strong beer in the park. One person took that to task and his attorney checked out our city ordinance and said your city ordinance says malt liquor. That's any beer. The sign at Lake Ann says 3.2. You know you've got a problem here which you need to clarify so as part of the clarification, the sign is pulled. Our city ordinance still remains that you can consume malt liquor which includes all beer. Mady: Malt liquor only can be consumed at any park and that's all? Hoffman: Correct. Mady: The wine coolers and all that garbage is out? And anything in glass bottles is out. Hoffman: Correct. Mady: Good. Now I'm not concerned. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS: Mady: I had one thing in Commission presentations real quick. With the losing of the referendum on the community center, the need for a recreation programs in this city hasn't ceased. I know one member of the Senior Citizen's Commission who's going to be pushing the Council for a senior center real hard. This is the body that's going to have to deal with these needs for recreation needs. They're there guys. Spend some time and go out and see what happens with the basketball program in town and you'll see what I've been talking about for 3 years. It's ungodly up there and like maybe we just haven't shown people the horrendous impact but right now. Robinson: What's that? What are you referring to? What about the basketball program? ,.... Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 27, 1990 - Page 63 JIIIIII'" Mady: We don't have gym space in town. You're basically throwing 100 kids in that gym trying to teach them how to play basketball at night all at once and it's not working. Lash: In response to that, there is something I wanted to bring up too. I guess I would like to hope in the future if the issue of a community center arises again, that this body be involved in it from the beginning because I think we had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Mady: Jan, I'll take you to task on that. Every meeting was well documented as to when they were. If you wanted to be there, you should have been there. Lash: No, but I think this is the Park and Recreation Commission and that would be a recreational facility and I think we were just totally skipped somehow in the process. Not that there's a problem with having a task force but I think the task force then should come to this commission. We represent the citizens and then we make recommendations to the City Council. Mady: No, the Council developed it. Lash: I'm saying next time I would like to see this body be involved. That's all I'm saying. ~ Mady: I must have brought it up at every other meeting trying to tell people what was going on and because it was at the end of the meeting. Lash: Yeah, but you were in a unique situation. You were the Chairman of both bodies you know and so it was just, you were well informed and we heard what was passed on from you. That doesn't mean we were involved or that our input was considered at all. I think as appointed commission members for recreational programs, we should be involved in it. Mady: You've got to be active. You've got to do it. No one here ever raised the, even asked us to ,do anything. I volunteered for it 3 1/2 years ago and put a ton of work into that thing. Maybe it's real personal with me but I haven't seen one iota of thanks out of this city yet. Out of a ton of hours and that's all I say. Robinson moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 10=50 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim '"