PRC 1990 12 11
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CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 11, 1990
Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Jim Mady, Wendy Pemrick, Jim Andrews, Dawne
Erhart
MEMBERS ABSENT: Larry Schroers and Curt Robinson
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator and Jerry
Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor
APPROVAL OF-MINUTES: Andrews moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes
of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated November 27, 1990
amended as follows: Jan" Lash made a correction on page 1, second sentence
of Mike Mason's comment changing the word "motions" to ~emotions" and Jim
Mady on page 44, changing the word "seeding" to "seating" in the last
paragraph. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATION:
Jay Johnson: Hi. I'm Jay Johnson. I'm the soccer coordinator for the
Athletic Association. Chanhassen Athletic Association. The Treasurer of
the Chan-Chaska Soccer Club and the Registrar of the Soccer Club and what
I've done is written a little letter here. I actually drafted it last July
and then rewrote it today. It's on our soccer field needs over the next 5
years I figure it would be a good time to tell you about them. Soccer's
really growing in this town. In the fall program we'r~ adding teams every
yea)". This time we had almost 200 kids in it this fall. The soccer club
which runs the summer soccer runs from April into August and sometimes in
September and October. We even have some teams playing this winter. That,
we added 2 more teams this last year. Basically what I want to do is real
quickly tell you that with the Lake Ann field coming on line this year,
that we're going to be in pretty good shape thru '92. Or '91, probably
'92. By '93 it's going to be real tough. A couple of the fields have to
be taken out of use. The field donated by Minnetonka School District had
some extreme problems to it. They're going to have to recrown it and
reseed it and the field provided by the Chaska School District has the same
problems plus it's too narrow. They're looking to rewidening it so we're
going to lose both of those fields for one summer sometime. Hopefully not
the same time. If we lose them both at the same time, then we're really
scrambling but we really do appreciate the fields that Chanhassen provides.
We'd like Chaska to provide one but they haven't yet, in the summer. This
last year Park and Rec guys did a fantastic job in keeping North Lotus Lake
field in good shape for us. That was the first year we've used it. Our
under 12 boys and girls used it. Then this fall they did an excellent job.
We had 5 fields for them to keep lined and they did an excellent job of
keeping those fields lined for us all fall. But basically when we get out
here on the third page there, start talking about future needs, I'm
expecting next year that we're going to add at least 2 if not 3 more teams
to our summer soccer leagues which then will start stressing our field
capacity if any fields are taken off for maintenance. And by 1995 I'm
predicting that we should have 8 to 9 fields for just the summer soccer
players to play on and one thing I've shown down there is 2 fields as1 to
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 2
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2 fields on the bottom is back-up fields. Most of the soccer clubs have
fields that they rest every year. The Wayzata has like 15 fields for their
soccer club. Two of them are not used in any given year and they are just
rested. Nobody's allowed to play on them. You're not allowed to play
baseball. You're not allowed to practice or anything on those fields and
they're taken. They're allowed to just grow. They're never marked and
this way they constantly replenish their fields instead of just beating on
them. So that's something we'd like to look for in the next 5 years is to
increase the number of fields. Bandimere Park is going to increase 2 full
sized fields but the design I was shown for Bandimere Park that was the
preferred design, I was told, eliminates our under 10 field so we would
gain 2 fields for the older kids but the younger kids would lose their
field. So we gain 2 and lose 1 and the 1 we'd be losing is the one that's
getting in more and more demand because I predict next year we're going to
add at least one more under 10 team taking it up to 3. We'll have an all
girls ~nder 10 team for the first time. This yeaT we had the first time
all girls under 12 so we're somewhat against what I was told was the chosen
design for Bandimere Park, if it ends up eliminating the under 10 field.
What we need is another under 10 field rather than eliminating one. So
basically I put it all here for your future consideration. Oh, the one
thing. The last paragraph. Last 2 I guess I should say is a soccer wall.
Basically this is a great big wall that the kids can go up and kick the
ball against and do, oh there's a lot of different drills and practices you
can do against a soccer wall without having a whole field. I think it'd be
great to have one of those probably at Bandimere Park if that turns out to
I be the place where most the soccer fields are. If you want to see one,
they have one up at Eden Prairie High School along TH 4 where their soccer
fields are there. So that's something that we'd like to see happen in the
next few years is get a soccer wall that they can practice hitting and
whatever off of. That thing actually can also function as an outdoor, one
wall racquetball. A lot of the parts of the country they have that where
you just put one racquetball wall up and play racquetball outdoors. You
put asphalt on one side for the racquetballers and grass on the other side
for the soccer players. It can function both ways.
Mady: How much room do you need on the open side of it Jay? The shooting
side.
Jay Johnson: How far back?
Mady: Yeah.
Jay Johnson: Oh geez. We're not trying, what it's used for, yeah 30 feet.
20 feet. It's not used for trying to hit a target from 80 yards away or
anything. It's used more to just practice your form of kicking without
having to chase the ball again or to hit the ball against the wall and have
it as your partner. Pepper drills where the wall's your partner. You kick
it and then you have to control it and kick it again. So it's a lot of
close things. I've never seen anybody more than 20 foot away probably.
",......
Mady: One of the thoughts I had on this is, up here at City Center Park
we're constantly fighting the battle with the wind screens trying to keep
those on the court. On the north side of that court we have about 100 feet
before we get to the property line that's not used. It's just open space.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 3
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It's never utilized outside of Mike Leymeyer uses it for his secret soccer
drills he tells us.
Jay Johnson: Yeah. We've used it for soccer practice in the fall league.
Sent the team over there.
Mady: You already have, the posts are already in place with the posts for
the screen. I would think staff would be able to come up with something
that could effectively make it a rigid wall and allow you both.
Jay Johnson: Yeah. Well the prevailing winds in this
are to the north and to the northwest and to the west.
anything out of the south and east to worry about. So
those two sides, that'd be a decent spot also.
part of the country
Do you rarely get
if you can cover
Mady: It's an idea anyway. It's a thought.
Jay Johnson: Anyway, thanks a lot. I have to get to Edina.
Lash: Could I ask you a question first?
Jay Johnson: Sure.
Lash: When you're talking about, and this would probably apply to other
youth activities as well and Todd could maybe address this after, but when
you're talking about projected figures of players, what do you think the
,..... percentage of kids that go to Chan Elementary, that's basically the
major'ity of the kids who sign up for the sports activities isn't it?
Jay Johnson: In the fall. For fall soccer.
Lash: Or for T-ball, rag ball. Most of them, ther~ are a few from St.
Hubert's but most of them go to school here right?
Jay Johnson: I would say 90% are from Chan Elementary in the CAA because
I'm the Treasurer of that organization so I see all the checks. We have
quite a few from St. Hubert's would be second and then we pick up Mound's
and Excelsior's. Woe offer a few things that other towns don't so we get a
lot of people coming in for our programs from out of town. We start soccer
earlier. Basketball earlier. A lot of sports we start earlier so we get
their kids.
Lash: Well in the next year with the new school in Jonathan is going to be
opening and I'm working on the task force for the boundaries for that and
the projections of how they want to split up the enrollment. They want to
try and do that based on future growth patterns and there's lots of
different criteria but one of the things that I'd like to keep in mind or
get figures on actually for some of the things are the number of kids who
live say in Brandondale, Victoria, some of those areas that presently come
to Chanhassen but next year will be going to. the new school in Jonathan.
, Then will they still be interested in being in the Chan activities or maybe
will they be starting their own or will they want to be with Chaska?
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Jay Johnson: Historically Chaska runs all the sports programs down there.
They don't have a group like the Chan Athletic Association. We have a lot
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 3
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It's never. utilized outside of Mike Leymeyer uses it for his secret soccer
drills he tells us.
Jay Johnson: Yeah. We've used it for soccer practice in the fall league.
Sent the team over there.
Mady: You already have, the posts are already in place with the posts for
the screen. I would think staff would be able to come up with something
that could effectively make it a rigid wall and allow you both.
Jay Johnson: Yeah. Well the prevailing winds in this
are to the north and to the northwest and to the west.
anything out of the south and east to worry about. So
those two sides, that'd be a decent spot also.
part of the country
Do you rarely get
if you can cover
Mady:
It's an idea anyway. It's a thought.
Jay Johnson: Anyway, thanks a lot. I have to get to Edina.
Lash: Could I ask you a question first?
Jay Johnson: Sure.
,....
Lash: When you're talking about, and this would probably apply to other
youth activities as well and Todd could maybe address this after, but when
you're talking about projected figures of players, what do you think the
percentage of kids that go to Chan Elementary, that's basically the
majority of the kids who sign up for the sports activities isn't it?
Jay Johnson: In the fall. For fall soccer.
Lash: Or for team ball, rag ball. Most of them, there are a few from St.
Hubert's but most of them go to school here right?
Jay Johnson: I would say 90% are from Chan Elementary in the CAA because
I'm the Treasurer of that organization so I see all the checks. We have
quite a few from St. Hubert's would be second and then we pick up Mound's
and Excelsior's. We offer a few things that other towns don't so we get a
lot of people coming in for our programs from out of town. We start soccer
earlier. Basketball earlier. A lot of sports we start earlier so we get
thei r kids.
Lash: Well in the next year with the new school in Jonathan is going to be
opening and I'm working on the task force for the boundaries for that and
the projections of how they want to split up the enrollment. They want to
try and do that based on future growth patterns and there's lots of
different criteria but one of the things that I'd like to keep in mind or
get figures on actually for some of the things are the number of kids who
live say in Grandale, Victoria, some of those areas that presently come to
Chanhassen but next year will be going to the new school in Jonathan. Then
\ will they still be interested in being in the Chan activities or maybe will
they be starting their own or will they want to be with Chaska?
"....,
Jay Johnson: Historically Chaska runs all the sports programs down there.
They don't have a group like the Chan Athletic Association. We have a lot
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 4
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of people from Chaska who come up here to play with us because they prefer
our sports.
Lash: But we may end up with a little bit of a grace period.
Jay Johnson: Oh, Victoria. A lot of people. Talk with our registrations
and she can pullout by zip code the people and so that will give us
Victoria, Chan, Excelsior and Chaska's zip code.
Lash: That may just give us a little bit of cushion.
Hoffman: Do you have any idea how far east that's going to come?
Lash: The boundary?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Jay Johnson: Will Victoria start going down there?
Lash: Victoria will probably be. We've only had one meeting and there's
going to be a public forum next Tuesday so.
Jay Johnson: Of course, will they have any facilities, atheltica
facilities the first couple years?
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Lash: At the school site itself I really don't know but what I'm thinking
more is that people tend to have their kids sign up and play with other
kids that they go to school with and I don't know where those kids are
going to go. If they're going to choose to continue to come to Chan or
would it probably be close. to go to Chaska if Chaska has the facilities?
I don't know.
Hoffman: The percentage,as we spoke earlier, the bulk is still going to
be here for us. Right now a variety of the Victo.ia and the families o~t
in that area...to Chaska. They come into our programs and some of them
even go to Waconia.
Andrews: I want to make a comment too about the talk of the United League
which I'm active in, there's an overflow from that league coming into the
north part of Chanhassen because the Tonka fields are just totally
overwhelmed with soccer programs.
Jay Johnson: We share fields with Tonka United.
Andrews: I know you did. I talked to you about it. We did share fields
but there's a real shortage of larger full sized fields for the Tonka
league too so you're going to get pressure from that side too.
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Jay Johnson: Oh yeah. Tonka United wants us off of the third field up
there to the Intermediate School so they can have it. In fact I've come in
and kicked their teams off of our fields. It's the worse field. It's
being beaten up and what's happening is Tonka United Soccer Club is doing
their practices on our fields and leaving their's alone so that their's
grows a little bit at times. Not all of them are always doing this. but I
caught them a couple times last year and showed them the piece of paper
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 5
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saYlng we had exclusive use. But the soccer club is both Chanhassen and
Chaska so the new grade school makes no difference at all because we have
kids from allover the place actually playing. Eden Prairie and whatever
but we would still service that school. Hopefully they will be as nice to
us as ChanElementary is. The Chaska Schools we can't get our information
out as easy to the kids but Chan Elementary's real good .about getting.
Hopefully the new school will be better than Chaska. Right now Chaska's
not real hot on soccer. Their Park and Rec Director's not a soccer. He
believes soccer is a fall sport and we believe it's a summer sport and that
in the fall you have your recreational, non-serious soccer. Anyway,
thanks.
HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE PLAYGROUND. CITY CENTER PARK. APPROVAL OF BIDS FOR
PHASE I.
Hoffman: Item number 2, the initial portion of the report just showed you
what was distributed to the various bidders. The three companies which we
contacted to bid on the equipment itself. The equipment and material and
then the two companies which were contacted concerning the purchase of
buckshot or the gravel surfacing material. What I've left with you tonight
is the cover letter explaining the bid process or the quote process and the
copies of the separate quotes that you received. As you noticed, W.M.
Mueller and Sons was the only gravel company that was interested in
bidding. The price of $4.25 per ton. In talking with Dale Gregory and
what we've purchased it for in the past, it's very favorable. We also
contacted Mapco Sand and Gravel out of Shakopee and they chose not to bid.
~ The equipment per the specifications, Earl F. Anderson and Associations was
the only company that chose to bid the entire package. Value Recreation
initially turned in a bid which appeared complete but then upon
investigation and a couple of phone calls, he began to back down on certain
items expressing that these would not be exactly what's in the
specification but we would gerrymander or rig something up. Hacksaw some
things up and weld some things on and make these things work. I explained
to them that we did not want any modifications of that type and we were
looking exactly for what was specified in the specifications. He withdrew
the exerglide swing and backhoe digger ride and then upon further
investigation, he had misquoted the timber border, the 320 lineal feet. He
estimated that at 160 feet of 6 x 6 and 160 feet of 4 x 6 when it said
total 320 feet of total timber border and the finish size of 6 x 10. So he
misquoted that so he just elected to drop out of the bidding and the quote
process. Flanagan Sales Inc., as you can see, turned in a partial bid so
typically you really want to look for the complete package. The company
that can provide the entire equipment which you're looking for and it is my
recommendation that we accept the quote from Earl F. Anderson Inc. in the
amount of $6,095.00 for the equipment and materials and that we accept the
bid from W.M. Mueller and Sons in the amount of $4.25 per ton per the
provisions of the modified buckshot.
Mady: So moved.
Andrews: Second.
Mady: Any further discussion?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 6
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Mady moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend to accept the quote from Earl F. Anderson Inc. in the amount of
$6,095.00 per the equipment and materials specifications and to accept the
bid from W.M. Mueller and Sons in the amount of $4.25 per ton per the
provisions of the modified buckshot. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
APPROVAL OF 1991 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGET.
Hoffman: As you can see by the summaries, I believe Jim if I've followed
you correctly, we asked for last time. That should tell you what has been
going on in the past year and what is coming up in the following year prior
to going through some of the specifics. If we could just take a look at
the summary. Our fund balance forward is fairly healthy at the current
time. Somewhere over $600,000.00. The 1990 Capital Improvement projects
which will be established, we have our general development fund but then we
established separate funds for each project in order to keep the accounting
system verifiable and accurate. Lake Ann expansion, the last $20,000.00
will be put in there to pay for the final completion work which has been
carried out in Lake Ann Park this past summer. The Lake Susan Park
expansion, the $120,000.00 which was our portion of the matching grant has
been transferred into a fund and is paying for expenses which are being
incurred up there with the development at Lake Susan Park. Herman Field
Park access road and initial development, we elected to establish that at
$50,000.00. The initial donation some 8-10 years ago was the $30,000.00.
We looked to developing that road and trying to get some initial
development. That $30,000.00 would possibly get us the road in there but
after that it's not going to get us any farther. In light of the
conversations which we've had with the residents, their consistently saying
that if that $30,000.00 would have been collecting interest all this time,
it would be even somewhat higher than $50,000.00 so we feel the $50,000.00
is a fair figure to establish in that fund for this first year for initial
development in 1991. Pheasant Hills parkland, that is the land acquisition
amount so that totals your figure there. Revenue over expenditures for
1990 was $176,000.00 which we've collected over expenditures and then the
general development reserve which was established a few years back is
always $100,000.00. That pushes forward our $430,000.00 plus our
$100,000.00 into the fund balance forward proposed for 1991 of
$530,000.00. Then what is laid out in that proposal is basically what is
included in the detailed packet. Proposed 1991 capital improvement
projects would be to continue the research and finally the construction of
the Lake Ann Park community shelter at $110,000.00. . Anticipated 1991
revenue is $228,000.00 and then the capital improvement program,
subtracting that $175,000.00 which we proposed for the capital improvement
program in 1990. Consulting fees. Administrative fees is one of the hits
that our budget is taking in the balancing of the general budget for the
city. What this says is that my time is 20% or approximately there of my
time is put into park acquisition and development and thus that amount of
my salary should come out of the park development fund. It's been
\ initiated in all the departments and you'll see that expense in all their
budgets as well. Establishing the general development reserve. Revenue
reserve in the land west of Lake Minnewashta which was in the previous
reserve puts us to a 19~1 capital total resources over expenditures of
$248,000.00 so if we keep our reserves and then we would transfer forward
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 7
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basically $450,000.00 in 1992 in our general fund. So again our general
fund, park development fund remains to be very viable and in good
condition. We want that to continue because we are looking to quite a bit
of park development in future years and we can't spend it all in one year.
We need to bank some of that so as building permits begin to dry out, that
we can finish up and clean up where we're at in our goals for park
development in the city so you want to keep that bank account.
Andrews: Last time we met, what were the revenues that came in 1990?
Hoffman: Revenues established in 1990. Expenditures are $176,000.00. We
expended approximately $50,000.00 in 1990 so we were vpwards of $230,000.00
in revenue.
Andrews: Okay, didn't we project or talk about a drop due to slow down in
permits of 30% or so? Wasn't that a number that we?
Hoffman: Then coming up.
Andrews: Projected '91 based on current pace of development over the last
3 to 6 months.
Hoffman: Basically there will be some sort of drop. What is shown in
1991, revenues $228,000.00. That's the Cit~ Manager's estimate along with
consultation with the building department.
~ Andrews: And it anticipates that drop already then?
Hoffman: Correct.
Mady: You'll find Don Ashworth will be more conservative than almost
anybody else in town when it comes to forecasting revenues for the coming
year.
Hoffman: Other questions either on the overviews, the proposals or I hope
you all had a chance. We won't go through the detailed budget again
tonight. In the report on the front page it does show what was deleted
from what we initially talked about and those items are deletions which are
somewhat painful although they are some of the best that I found throughout
the specific budget. I did try to spread things around in our park
development and purchase of equipment, that type of thing so we can
basically keep some minimal improvements going in all our city parks so the
residents do see some activity taking place there. We also have some
larger projects which we'll be undertaking and we get underway with the
Lake Ann community building sometime with finishing up design work and that
type of thing. That would be a large project which would continue in 1991.
Mady: Todd I have one question.
left $3,000.00 in there for that.
that will take care of it?
On the Pond park erosion control? You
Does the engineering department feel
,....
.
Hoffman: In consultation with Dave Hempel, I've talked to them and he did
have a chance to go out on the site and he feels that that's something
which our public works can carryon their own and thus the $3,000.00 is
."...,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 8
still a good figure to keep in there. We are safe dropping that down a few
thousand dollars.
Mady: Okay, that was the only one. Although I don't like see a number of
this stuff not being done, erosion control, it's just something we need to
fix. Make sure that gets done. Any other comments?
Andrews: I have one. Somehow the cut on the North Lotus Lake Park got
around in our neighborhood relatively quickly. The request that was made
was not so much for the tot lot type of equipment that's been proposed or
talked about but just for the general swing. You know chains and a seat to
swing on. Do you have any idea what sort of costs that kind of equipment
we'd be looking at?
Hoffman: A double, two swings?
Andrews: Yeah.
Hoffman: $800.00.
Mady: I remember the $1,000.00. The...1 had from about 2 years ago was
$800.00. It's probably around $1,000.00 now.
Andrews: What do you think?
Mady: I'm sure there's room to squeeze it in someplace.
Andrews: Squeeze it someplace, okay. Now 1 can go back to my neighborhood
and look them in the eye.
Lash: These things that you deleted Todd, did you then bump them over into
the 1992 plus column?
Hoffman: Figures?
Lash: Yeah. Or what did you do?
Hoffman: Basically if you take a look, let's just take Lake Ann for
example. Street curbing does not show up in 1992+ so those things will be
added in there so at least we don't forget about them.
Lash: I notice in Lotus Lake it wasn't so I just wanted to make sure it's
not forgotten just because it's deleted.
Mady: One thing you might keep in mind with that street curbing. Instead
of just putting curb in, which is going to require some other things, you
might want to consider doing something like bollards like Eden Prairie's
done with their big parks.
Hoffman: Bollards or else you can bring in just the pull up curb stops.
-\
Mady: Even that's even cheaper but just if you want to do something that
doesn't require a lot of digging. With bollards you just dig a hole and
drop them in so there's a number of things that can be done just to keep
the cars off the grass. A motion to approve to push forward to the Council.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 9
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Lash: Okay, you said you didn't want to go through this page by page. You
wanted to do it at a later date?
Mady: We've already done it last week.
Lash: Okay.
Hoffman: I went through and amended everything which we talked about,
which we added. We weren't as far off this year as we have been in the
past years so the total amount which I came up with with all the ideas of
the commission is $211,000.00. We had to reduce that by 36 to get to the
targeted figure of $175,000.00 which we thought was a safe figure to go
ahead and expend in 1991. So those deletions seemed to be the natural
ones.
Andrews: I need to ask a couple questions just to make sure I understand
this, being this is my first time through this. On the first page,
illustrated the 1990 status, it shows total resources over expenditures of
$430,000.00.at the bottom of the page. On the back page, the projected
1991 total resources over expenditures is $248,000.00. I mean that's a
substantial decline. Does that represent an erosion of our position or
simply that we've allocated dollars to projects that have a long term
status?
Mady: We've got 3 projects in there in reserve that total $310,000.00.
,.... Hoffman: If you take a look at the bottom, the $248,000.00 and then
$100,000.00 was just bumped up into land just west of Lake Minnewashta and
that can very well, you know that's part of our total resources because
we'll save it until something happens there where we're looking to land.
The general development fund, although that's included in the following
page so that doesn't reflect it correctly. The other big project then
would be the $110,000.00 project which would be a capital transfer out of
the dedication.
Andrews: Okay. Those are both long term projects we had intended to do
anyway so we're just really labeling the money instead of just calling it
an open reserve at the bottom.
Hoffman: So what our, if we went ahead and did not cut into our general
development revenue fund balance forward and then we...1992 would be
proposed at approximately $450,000.00.
Andrews: Okay.
Lash: Okay and then you were planning on coming UP with a system that
would show which items actually did?
Hoffman: Yes. Which items did actually occur so we'll go through this.
When we make this up again we'll cut out probably 1988 and possibly even
1989 and show 1990 and 1991, 1992, 1993 and then we'll update the whole
list so we can be more accurate in showing what has been completed.
"".....
Lash: What if there are things on there in 1988 and 1989 that were never
completed? There isn't any?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 10
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Mady: Bring them forward.
Hoffman: We can talk about that sometime in the future at a 5 year capital
improvement program budget discussion and at that time we can review this.
Clean it up a little bit. See if we want to push those forward or if it
was something that was talked about and decided it's not going to go.
Lash: I just don't want anything to just disappear just because we're
going to wipe out 1988 and 1989. Just because it got put on the back
burner for 2 or 3 years doesn't mean it should be forgotten.
Andrews: Last question. Do we get like a mid-ye?r update on revenues?
Hoffman: You certainly can. Finalized copies will go to the Council for
approval and that may occur on the 18th although the meeting that evening
is tied up with interviews so then it ~ould fali.. .
Mady: You might find Todd that one of the reasons was you didn't have to
drop this so much from prior years is earlier years we were only able to
spend usually $50,000.00 to $80,000.00 and we'd always come up with
$250,000.00 of things we'd want to buy so it was easier this year when you
can spend $175,000.00. Not so much to cut. Motion to approve.
Lash: So moved.
Andrews: Second.
,-.
Lash moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend to approve the 1991 Capital Improvement Budget as presented by
staff. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
ADMINISTRATIVE AND COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS:
Mady: Any Administration items?
Hoffman: Presentations? Other than the Breakfast with Santa flyer. It
was well over double last year's number. The breakfast was put on by a
cooperative effort between the Rotary, the Firemen, the Commerce and our
department served 605 people on Sunday morning. Last year we served 275 so
a big improvement. And as well the Christmas tree lighting was well
attended. Well over 100 people were down there. We had Santa Claus
handing out candy canes, hot cider, cookies. The Mayor hit the switch and
we sang, 50 carolers from the High School came up and sang some Christmas
carols so I think that's a tradition which you'll see grow in the future.
And as part of that, at some point we should have some discussion in the
Park Plaza tower. The clock tower plaza which is the square of land there
right behind the clock tower next to the Medical Arts building will be
developed somewhat like a city center park or.
Mady: A mini park?
,..,
Hoffman: A mini park. A decorative area. Something like the Town Square
in Chaska. It's somewhat smaller but the commission would like to have
some input on that. There's some design work going on right now and since
the tree lighting ceremony is now kind of established in that area, they're
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 11
"'"
going to redesign it again so they can plop in a big blue spruce evergreen
tree so this can continue.
Mady: A real one? I was wondering when I saw them drop it in here about 2
weeks ago. I was wondering why they didn't just dig the whole tree and put
it down?
Hoffman: That one?
Mady: Yeah. That one from Halla's unless the tree's.
Hoffman: This tree was too large to transplant and as well it's from the
Abby Bongard property which is just across from TH5 from McDonald's where
that house and land was purchased for the development of TH 101 so it will
be leveled anyway.
Mady: I was just wondering, you could have taken Halla Nursery's big scoop
and they've got the world's largest tree scoop and maybe save it.
Hoffman: Too big to move.
Mady: Aw shucks.
I would like to see a real growing tree.
Andrews: Two comments. This one is a little belated but the Park and Rec
pamphlet that did come out I thought was really good. I thought the colors
were really effective. The second thing I wanted to get clarified is when
~ is our next meeting? Is it the second Tuesday or the fourth Tuesday?
Hoffman: Fourth Tuesday. Fourth Tuesday of January.
Mady: I had two things. One I had a phone call probably 3-4 weeks ago now
from Eric Rivkin at work and he had a question on the CompPlan. I talked
to Todd about it and apparently Eric decided not come forward with it or
anything but he found an inconsistency in the Comp Plan and I told him I'd
mention it here although I don't foresee anything being done about it.
Eric was reading through the Comp Plan and he saw that in our Comp Plan one
of the statements goes something to the effect that one of the goals or
missions of the Park Commission is to make sure that all the parks are open
to all individuals in the whole city of Chanhassen. He was questioning
Greenwood Shores Park, no parking available. I told Eric that it was a
politically charged it~m and I wasn't going to push it. If he wanted to do
something about it, he should come forward or contact the Council but I
thought it was a dead issue and had been for a couple years. The last
thing I had was on Minnewashta Parkway's trail. We didn't budget anything
in o~r Capital Improvem~nt Pro~ram for trails. Minnewashta Parkway's trail
been talked about for 2 years. I think it's irresponsible for us to not
budget something for that. I kno~ those people are going to be in here.
If we expect them to pay for it out of their assessments for the roadway
improvements, they're going to be very unhappy because we've really done
nothing for them forever. It's a little thing but I think there's maybe
$40,000.00 available toward it. I know with some of the State funding that
they're getting, it might be enough to cover it, or at least. it will put a
big dent in it so I think that needs to get done.
~
Park and RecCommission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 12
",...
Hoffman: After our initial discussions on that item, I put some thought
into that and as noted in 1990, we did expend $13,000.00 in trail
construction and what that included was basically engineering fees and
construction costs for the extension of the trail coming down to the TH 5
co~struction so this dollar amount was actually upfront payment for that
and now as TH 5 comes along, a trail will be included with that. It's hard
to anticipate what type of engineering or consulting charges we're going to
get hit ~1th on Minnewashta Parkway project and at this point it's hard to
forecast what portion, if it's going to be a large portion or small portion
which we would have to look to paying for the actual construction of that
trail. We have the $100,000.00 fund reserved. So what I noted under trail
construction for proposed 1991 is just fund reserve so if that comes in, we
can haggle over the dollar amount between the engineering department and
between the grant programs going on to pay for that road and assessments,
those types of things. And hopefully we can get by with minimal cost out
of our trail construction, park dedication fees and take the rest out ~f
our reserve. At that time we'd come to the Commission and discuss all
those items and obviously look for your approval...
Mady: Okay. I know I'll be asked about that a number of times between now
and softball season from at least one individual who lives out there and
who's been very active in it so I wanted to make sure the Commission was
aware of it.
"....
Hoffman: If you want to be more aggressive and show that as a general
reserve, you'd like to handle it that way, you can certainly do that.
$50,000.00 trail reserve or construction reserve. It's hard to pinpoint
since it's not as easy as we have a piece of land or we have a park or a
piece of land and what are we going to do with it. These trail issues just
kind of pop up as things develop and that type of thing so we can't
pinpoint what we're going to be spending on trail development in future
years but we can always rely on our reserve as long as it's somewhat
substantial. Plus we're not taking a look at and what we need to take a
look at, those dollars which are generated by the trail development fees
should stay in our park dedication and trail budget for trail development.
That's why we spent a small portion of what we...
Lash: As long as you brought up the Comp Plan, I guess I don't recall that
we ever got a finalized copy of that. Is it something that we're waiting
on Council approval and then we'll get a copy?
Hoffman: I'm not sure what stage it's at but we're still waiting on it.
Staff has not received a final version back and I know you inquired last
meeting. I'll talk with Paul Krauss and then get back to you on that prior
to the next meeting. Couple other things is some situation out at the
pheasant Hills property. If you all remember Carl Carrico and his
involvement out there. We're not sure at what point, if he owned the land
when he was authorizing this work but there's some soil testing and
surveying work and that type of thing that he had done out there and now
those people are coming back to the City saying we understand you own this
land now and we're looking for payment.
Mady: Tell them to find Carl over in Edina.
,....
..
Park and Rec commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 13
,...,
Hoffman: We certainly are doing that and if Mr. Carrico was authorizing
work when he did not even own the land, which he led us to believe for a
long while prior to the disclosure of all the going ons with that piece of
property, then they have no recourse against us because they did work
authorized by a person who did not even own the land. The City Manager did
have thoughts of paying off that account so we could close that account and
clean that one out but now we don't want to do that because we don't want
to payoff Mr. Huffnagle and then have somebody coming back in looking for
that money so as of now we'll just hold off and.. .and just wait until these
things kind of filter out. One other thing, as long as Jim brought up the
brochure. We are looking to a change. It's generated by the City. It's
going to be a positive change in our brochure in that we're getting more
requests to include information from engineering, from planning for
recycling and for the library. For the things that are going on in public
works. That type of thing but it's still called a recreation brochure so
we will be looking to a city newsletter format as an insert or a three fold
insert. Something of that nature will be the park and ,ecreation items
inside of that city newsletter so sometime in the early spring you'll see
the first edition of that. We think it's a good service to the citizens as
a whole. The Park and Rec does offer a service and it's a very visible
service but as does every other department. Public Safety, public works,
engineering so it's good to let the residents know what is going on.
Erhart:
That's a good idea.
Lash: Oh, and I did notice the week of Christmas vacation that you have an
,..., activity,planned for the kids who are out of school and I like that and I'd
like to see further work done on that. I have some sign-ups for that
already. But anyway, if you're interested, 1 mean I'm sure you can get
from the school the calendar. There's a day coming up in January they're
off and February there's a whole week.
Mady: Anything further?
Andrews: One more thing. Last meeting we had talked about the questions
of the legality of how funds are collected from projects and how they could
be allocated to projects at other sites. I don't know if we ever decided
we were going to look into that or not.
Hoffman: What I did is talk with the City Manager and I addressed what we
had spoken about and it was his opinion as well that as long as we're
sincere in our effort to meet all the needs of all the neighborhoods and
the residents, there's no reason for anybody to get so upset and angry and
up in arms that they're going to start a lawsuit against the City that we
are not trying to meet the park and recreational needs and open space needs
so it's really not a concern.
Andrews: It's business as usual?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Lash: I appreciate the fact that you follow up on these things. I just
wanted to tell you that.
"""
Mady: Anything else?
,...,
r-
r-
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
December 11, 1990 - Page 14
Andrews moved, Lash seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjo~rned at 8=15 p.m..
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Coordinator
Prepared by Nann Opheim