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PRC 1990 12 11 I""" .1""" ",..... - CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 11, 1990 Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Jim Mady, Wendy Pemrick, Jim Andrews, Dawne Erhart MEMBERS ABSENT: Larry Schroers and Curt Robinson STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor APPROVAL OF-MINUTES: Andrews moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated November 27, 1990 amended as follows: Jan" Lash made a correction on page 1, second sentence of Mike Mason's comment changing the word "motions" to ~emotions" and Jim Mady on page 44, changing the word "seeding" to "seating" in the last paragraph. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATION: Jay Johnson: Hi. I'm Jay Johnson. I'm the soccer coordinator for the Athletic Association. Chanhassen Athletic Association. The Treasurer of the Chan-Chaska Soccer Club and the Registrar of the Soccer Club and what I've done is written a little letter here. I actually drafted it last July and then rewrote it today. It's on our soccer field needs over the next 5 years I figure it would be a good time to tell you about them. Soccer's really growing in this town. In the fall program we'r~ adding teams every yea)". This time we had almost 200 kids in it this fall. The soccer club which runs the summer soccer runs from April into August and sometimes in September and October. We even have some teams playing this winter. That, we added 2 more teams this last year. Basically what I want to do is real quickly tell you that with the Lake Ann field coming on line this year, that we're going to be in pretty good shape thru '92. Or '91, probably '92. By '93 it's going to be real tough. A couple of the fields have to be taken out of use. The field donated by Minnetonka School District had some extreme problems to it. They're going to have to recrown it and reseed it and the field provided by the Chaska School District has the same problems plus it's too narrow. They're looking to rewidening it so we're going to lose both of those fields for one summer sometime. Hopefully not the same time. If we lose them both at the same time, then we're really scrambling but we really do appreciate the fields that Chanhassen provides. We'd like Chaska to provide one but they haven't yet, in the summer. This last year Park and Rec guys did a fantastic job in keeping North Lotus Lake field in good shape for us. That was the first year we've used it. Our under 12 boys and girls used it. Then this fall they did an excellent job. We had 5 fields for them to keep lined and they did an excellent job of keeping those fields lined for us all fall. But basically when we get out here on the third page there, start talking about future needs, I'm expecting next year that we're going to add at least 2 if not 3 more teams to our summer soccer leagues which then will start stressing our field capacity if any fields are taken off for maintenance. And by 1995 I'm predicting that we should have 8 to 9 fields for just the summer soccer players to play on and one thing I've shown down there is 2 fields as1 to Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 2 JII'" ,..., 2 fields on the bottom is back-up fields. Most of the soccer clubs have fields that they rest every year. The Wayzata has like 15 fields for their soccer club. Two of them are not used in any given year and they are just rested. Nobody's allowed to play on them. You're not allowed to play baseball. You're not allowed to practice or anything on those fields and they're taken. They're allowed to just grow. They're never marked and this way they constantly replenish their fields instead of just beating on them. So that's something we'd like to look for in the next 5 years is to increase the number of fields. Bandimere Park is going to increase 2 full sized fields but the design I was shown for Bandimere Park that was the preferred design, I was told, eliminates our under 10 field so we would gain 2 fields for the older kids but the younger kids would lose their field. So we gain 2 and lose 1 and the 1 we'd be losing is the one that's getting in more and more demand because I predict next year we're going to add at least one more under 10 team taking it up to 3. We'll have an all girls ~nder 10 team for the first time. This yeaT we had the first time all girls under 12 so we're somewhat against what I was told was the chosen design for Bandimere Park, if it ends up eliminating the under 10 field. What we need is another under 10 field rather than eliminating one. So basically I put it all here for your future consideration. Oh, the one thing. The last paragraph. Last 2 I guess I should say is a soccer wall. Basically this is a great big wall that the kids can go up and kick the ball against and do, oh there's a lot of different drills and practices you can do against a soccer wall without having a whole field. I think it'd be great to have one of those probably at Bandimere Park if that turns out to I be the place where most the soccer fields are. If you want to see one, they have one up at Eden Prairie High School along TH 4 where their soccer fields are there. So that's something that we'd like to see happen in the next few years is get a soccer wall that they can practice hitting and whatever off of. That thing actually can also function as an outdoor, one wall racquetball. A lot of the parts of the country they have that where you just put one racquetball wall up and play racquetball outdoors. You put asphalt on one side for the racquetballers and grass on the other side for the soccer players. It can function both ways. Mady: How much room do you need on the open side of it Jay? The shooting side. Jay Johnson: How far back? Mady: Yeah. Jay Johnson: Oh geez. We're not trying, what it's used for, yeah 30 feet. 20 feet. It's not used for trying to hit a target from 80 yards away or anything. It's used more to just practice your form of kicking without having to chase the ball again or to hit the ball against the wall and have it as your partner. Pepper drills where the wall's your partner. You kick it and then you have to control it and kick it again. So it's a lot of close things. I've never seen anybody more than 20 foot away probably. ",...... Mady: One of the thoughts I had on this is, up here at City Center Park we're constantly fighting the battle with the wind screens trying to keep those on the court. On the north side of that court we have about 100 feet before we get to the property line that's not used. It's just open space. Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 3 Ct/,<?'".e4"C T/t'/P'5 ;/I'" , It's never utilized outside of Mike Leymeyer uses it for his secret soccer drills he tells us. Jay Johnson: Yeah. We've used it for soccer practice in the fall league. Sent the team over there. Mady: You already have, the posts are already in place with the posts for the screen. I would think staff would be able to come up with something that could effectively make it a rigid wall and allow you both. Jay Johnson: Yeah. Well the prevailing winds in this are to the north and to the northwest and to the west. anything out of the south and east to worry about. So those two sides, that'd be a decent spot also. part of the country Do you rarely get if you can cover Mady: It's an idea anyway. It's a thought. Jay Johnson: Anyway, thanks a lot. I have to get to Edina. Lash: Could I ask you a question first? Jay Johnson: Sure. Lash: When you're talking about, and this would probably apply to other youth activities as well and Todd could maybe address this after, but when you're talking about projected figures of players, what do you think the ,..... percentage of kids that go to Chan Elementary, that's basically the major'ity of the kids who sign up for the sports activities isn't it? Jay Johnson: In the fall. For fall soccer. Lash: Or for T-ball, rag ball. Most of them, ther~ are a few from St. Hubert's but most of them go to school here right? Jay Johnson: I would say 90% are from Chan Elementary in the CAA because I'm the Treasurer of that organization so I see all the checks. We have quite a few from St. Hubert's would be second and then we pick up Mound's and Excelsior's. Woe offer a few things that other towns don't so we get a lot of people coming in for our programs from out of town. We start soccer earlier. Basketball earlier. A lot of sports we start earlier so we get their kids. Lash: Well in the next year with the new school in Jonathan is going to be opening and I'm working on the task force for the boundaries for that and the projections of how they want to split up the enrollment. They want to try and do that based on future growth patterns and there's lots of different criteria but one of the things that I'd like to keep in mind or get figures on actually for some of the things are the number of kids who live say in Brandondale, Victoria, some of those areas that presently come to Chanhassen but next year will be going to. the new school in Jonathan. , Then will they still be interested in being in the Chan activities or maybe will they be starting their own or will they want to be with Chaska? '"" Jay Johnson: Historically Chaska runs all the sports programs down there. They don't have a group like the Chan Athletic Association. We have a lot Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 3 ,. "...., It's never. utilized outside of Mike Leymeyer uses it for his secret soccer drills he tells us. Jay Johnson: Yeah. We've used it for soccer practice in the fall league. Sent the team over there. Mady: You already have, the posts are already in place with the posts for the screen. I would think staff would be able to come up with something that could effectively make it a rigid wall and allow you both. Jay Johnson: Yeah. Well the prevailing winds in this are to the north and to the northwest and to the west. anything out of the south and east to worry about. So those two sides, that'd be a decent spot also. part of the country Do you rarely get if you can cover Mady: It's an idea anyway. It's a thought. Jay Johnson: Anyway, thanks a lot. I have to get to Edina. Lash: Could I ask you a question first? Jay Johnson: Sure. ,.... Lash: When you're talking about, and this would probably apply to other youth activities as well and Todd could maybe address this after, but when you're talking about projected figures of players, what do you think the percentage of kids that go to Chan Elementary, that's basically the majority of the kids who sign up for the sports activities isn't it? Jay Johnson: In the fall. For fall soccer. Lash: Or for team ball, rag ball. Most of them, there are a few from St. Hubert's but most of them go to school here right? Jay Johnson: I would say 90% are from Chan Elementary in the CAA because I'm the Treasurer of that organization so I see all the checks. We have quite a few from St. Hubert's would be second and then we pick up Mound's and Excelsior's. We offer a few things that other towns don't so we get a lot of people coming in for our programs from out of town. We start soccer earlier. Basketball earlier. A lot of sports we start earlier so we get thei r kids. Lash: Well in the next year with the new school in Jonathan is going to be opening and I'm working on the task force for the boundaries for that and the projections of how they want to split up the enrollment. They want to try and do that based on future growth patterns and there's lots of different criteria but one of the things that I'd like to keep in mind or get figures on actually for some of the things are the number of kids who live say in Grandale, Victoria, some of those areas that presently come to Chanhassen but next year will be going to the new school in Jonathan. Then \ will they still be interested in being in the Chan activities or maybe will they be starting their own or will they want to be with Chaska? "...., Jay Johnson: Historically Chaska runs all the sports programs down there. They don't have a group like the Chan Athletic Association. We have a lot Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 4 ,..., of people from Chaska who come up here to play with us because they prefer our sports. Lash: But we may end up with a little bit of a grace period. Jay Johnson: Oh, Victoria. A lot of people. Talk with our registrations and she can pullout by zip code the people and so that will give us Victoria, Chan, Excelsior and Chaska's zip code. Lash: That may just give us a little bit of cushion. Hoffman: Do you have any idea how far east that's going to come? Lash: The boundary? Hoffman: Yeah. Jay Johnson: Will Victoria start going down there? Lash: Victoria will probably be. We've only had one meeting and there's going to be a public forum next Tuesday so. Jay Johnson: Of course, will they have any facilities, atheltica facilities the first couple years? ,... Lash: At the school site itself I really don't know but what I'm thinking more is that people tend to have their kids sign up and play with other kids that they go to school with and I don't know where those kids are going to go. If they're going to choose to continue to come to Chan or would it probably be close. to go to Chaska if Chaska has the facilities? I don't know. Hoffman: The percentage,as we spoke earlier, the bulk is still going to be here for us. Right now a variety of the Victo.ia and the families o~t in that area...to Chaska. They come into our programs and some of them even go to Waconia. Andrews: I want to make a comment too about the talk of the United League which I'm active in, there's an overflow from that league coming into the north part of Chanhassen because the Tonka fields are just totally overwhelmed with soccer programs. Jay Johnson: We share fields with Tonka United. Andrews: I know you did. I talked to you about it. We did share fields but there's a real shortage of larger full sized fields for the Tonka league too so you're going to get pressure from that side too. .1"" Jay Johnson: Oh yeah. Tonka United wants us off of the third field up there to the Intermediate School so they can have it. In fact I've come in and kicked their teams off of our fields. It's the worse field. It's being beaten up and what's happening is Tonka United Soccer Club is doing their practices on our fields and leaving their's alone so that their's grows a little bit at times. Not all of them are always doing this. but I caught them a couple times last year and showed them the piece of paper Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 5 ",...., saYlng we had exclusive use. But the soccer club is both Chanhassen and Chaska so the new grade school makes no difference at all because we have kids from allover the place actually playing. Eden Prairie and whatever but we would still service that school. Hopefully they will be as nice to us as ChanElementary is. The Chaska Schools we can't get our information out as easy to the kids but Chan Elementary's real good .about getting. Hopefully the new school will be better than Chaska. Right now Chaska's not real hot on soccer. Their Park and Rec Director's not a soccer. He believes soccer is a fall sport and we believe it's a summer sport and that in the fall you have your recreational, non-serious soccer. Anyway, thanks. HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE PLAYGROUND. CITY CENTER PARK. APPROVAL OF BIDS FOR PHASE I. Hoffman: Item number 2, the initial portion of the report just showed you what was distributed to the various bidders. The three companies which we contacted to bid on the equipment itself. The equipment and material and then the two companies which were contacted concerning the purchase of buckshot or the gravel surfacing material. What I've left with you tonight is the cover letter explaining the bid process or the quote process and the copies of the separate quotes that you received. As you noticed, W.M. Mueller and Sons was the only gravel company that was interested in bidding. The price of $4.25 per ton. In talking with Dale Gregory and what we've purchased it for in the past, it's very favorable. We also contacted Mapco Sand and Gravel out of Shakopee and they chose not to bid. ~ The equipment per the specifications, Earl F. Anderson and Associations was the only company that chose to bid the entire package. Value Recreation initially turned in a bid which appeared complete but then upon investigation and a couple of phone calls, he began to back down on certain items expressing that these would not be exactly what's in the specification but we would gerrymander or rig something up. Hacksaw some things up and weld some things on and make these things work. I explained to them that we did not want any modifications of that type and we were looking exactly for what was specified in the specifications. He withdrew the exerglide swing and backhoe digger ride and then upon further investigation, he had misquoted the timber border, the 320 lineal feet. He estimated that at 160 feet of 6 x 6 and 160 feet of 4 x 6 when it said total 320 feet of total timber border and the finish size of 6 x 10. So he misquoted that so he just elected to drop out of the bidding and the quote process. Flanagan Sales Inc., as you can see, turned in a partial bid so typically you really want to look for the complete package. The company that can provide the entire equipment which you're looking for and it is my recommendation that we accept the quote from Earl F. Anderson Inc. in the amount of $6,095.00 for the equipment and materials and that we accept the bid from W.M. Mueller and Sons in the amount of $4.25 per ton per the provisions of the modified buckshot. Mady: So moved. Andrews: Second. Mady: Any further discussion? "'" ifI"'" ifI"'" ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 6 " Mady moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to accept the quote from Earl F. Anderson Inc. in the amount of $6,095.00 per the equipment and materials specifications and to accept the bid from W.M. Mueller and Sons in the amount of $4.25 per ton per the provisions of the modified buckshot. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. APPROVAL OF 1991 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT BUDGET. Hoffman: As you can see by the summaries, I believe Jim if I've followed you correctly, we asked for last time. That should tell you what has been going on in the past year and what is coming up in the following year prior to going through some of the specifics. If we could just take a look at the summary. Our fund balance forward is fairly healthy at the current time. Somewhere over $600,000.00. The 1990 Capital Improvement projects which will be established, we have our general development fund but then we established separate funds for each project in order to keep the accounting system verifiable and accurate. Lake Ann expansion, the last $20,000.00 will be put in there to pay for the final completion work which has been carried out in Lake Ann Park this past summer. The Lake Susan Park expansion, the $120,000.00 which was our portion of the matching grant has been transferred into a fund and is paying for expenses which are being incurred up there with the development at Lake Susan Park. Herman Field Park access road and initial development, we elected to establish that at $50,000.00. The initial donation some 8-10 years ago was the $30,000.00. We looked to developing that road and trying to get some initial development. That $30,000.00 would possibly get us the road in there but after that it's not going to get us any farther. In light of the conversations which we've had with the residents, their consistently saying that if that $30,000.00 would have been collecting interest all this time, it would be even somewhat higher than $50,000.00 so we feel the $50,000.00 is a fair figure to establish in that fund for this first year for initial development in 1991. Pheasant Hills parkland, that is the land acquisition amount so that totals your figure there. Revenue over expenditures for 1990 was $176,000.00 which we've collected over expenditures and then the general development reserve which was established a few years back is always $100,000.00. That pushes forward our $430,000.00 plus our $100,000.00 into the fund balance forward proposed for 1991 of $530,000.00. Then what is laid out in that proposal is basically what is included in the detailed packet. Proposed 1991 capital improvement projects would be to continue the research and finally the construction of the Lake Ann Park community shelter at $110,000.00. . Anticipated 1991 revenue is $228,000.00 and then the capital improvement program, subtracting that $175,000.00 which we proposed for the capital improvement program in 1990. Consulting fees. Administrative fees is one of the hits that our budget is taking in the balancing of the general budget for the city. What this says is that my time is 20% or approximately there of my time is put into park acquisition and development and thus that amount of my salary should come out of the park development fund. It's been \ initiated in all the departments and you'll see that expense in all their budgets as well. Establishing the general development reserve. Revenue reserve in the land west of Lake Minnewashta which was in the previous reserve puts us to a 19~1 capital total resources over expenditures of $248,000.00 so if we keep our reserves and then we would transfer forward Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 7 ,...... basically $450,000.00 in 1992 in our general fund. So again our general fund, park development fund remains to be very viable and in good condition. We want that to continue because we are looking to quite a bit of park development in future years and we can't spend it all in one year. We need to bank some of that so as building permits begin to dry out, that we can finish up and clean up where we're at in our goals for park development in the city so you want to keep that bank account. Andrews: Last time we met, what were the revenues that came in 1990? Hoffman: Revenues established in 1990. Expenditures are $176,000.00. We expended approximately $50,000.00 in 1990 so we were vpwards of $230,000.00 in revenue. Andrews: Okay, didn't we project or talk about a drop due to slow down in permits of 30% or so? Wasn't that a number that we? Hoffman: Then coming up. Andrews: Projected '91 based on current pace of development over the last 3 to 6 months. Hoffman: Basically there will be some sort of drop. What is shown in 1991, revenues $228,000.00. That's the Cit~ Manager's estimate along with consultation with the building department. ~ Andrews: And it anticipates that drop already then? Hoffman: Correct. Mady: You'll find Don Ashworth will be more conservative than almost anybody else in town when it comes to forecasting revenues for the coming year. Hoffman: Other questions either on the overviews, the proposals or I hope you all had a chance. We won't go through the detailed budget again tonight. In the report on the front page it does show what was deleted from what we initially talked about and those items are deletions which are somewhat painful although they are some of the best that I found throughout the specific budget. I did try to spread things around in our park development and purchase of equipment, that type of thing so we can basically keep some minimal improvements going in all our city parks so the residents do see some activity taking place there. We also have some larger projects which we'll be undertaking and we get underway with the Lake Ann community building sometime with finishing up design work and that type of thing. That would be a large project which would continue in 1991. Mady: Todd I have one question. left $3,000.00 in there for that. that will take care of it? On the Pond park erosion control? You Does the engineering department feel ,.... . Hoffman: In consultation with Dave Hempel, I've talked to them and he did have a chance to go out on the site and he feels that that's something which our public works can carryon their own and thus the $3,000.00 is ."..., ill"""'- r- Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 8 still a good figure to keep in there. We are safe dropping that down a few thousand dollars. Mady: Okay, that was the only one. Although I don't like see a number of this stuff not being done, erosion control, it's just something we need to fix. Make sure that gets done. Any other comments? Andrews: I have one. Somehow the cut on the North Lotus Lake Park got around in our neighborhood relatively quickly. The request that was made was not so much for the tot lot type of equipment that's been proposed or talked about but just for the general swing. You know chains and a seat to swing on. Do you have any idea what sort of costs that kind of equipment we'd be looking at? Hoffman: A double, two swings? Andrews: Yeah. Hoffman: $800.00. Mady: I remember the $1,000.00. The...1 had from about 2 years ago was $800.00. It's probably around $1,000.00 now. Andrews: What do you think? Mady: I'm sure there's room to squeeze it in someplace. Andrews: Squeeze it someplace, okay. Now 1 can go back to my neighborhood and look them in the eye. Lash: These things that you deleted Todd, did you then bump them over into the 1992 plus column? Hoffman: Figures? Lash: Yeah. Or what did you do? Hoffman: Basically if you take a look, let's just take Lake Ann for example. Street curbing does not show up in 1992+ so those things will be added in there so at least we don't forget about them. Lash: I notice in Lotus Lake it wasn't so I just wanted to make sure it's not forgotten just because it's deleted. Mady: One thing you might keep in mind with that street curbing. Instead of just putting curb in, which is going to require some other things, you might want to consider doing something like bollards like Eden Prairie's done with their big parks. Hoffman: Bollards or else you can bring in just the pull up curb stops. -\ Mady: Even that's even cheaper but just if you want to do something that doesn't require a lot of digging. With bollards you just dig a hole and drop them in so there's a number of things that can be done just to keep the cars off the grass. A motion to approve to push forward to the Council. Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 9 ,.... Lash: Okay, you said you didn't want to go through this page by page. You wanted to do it at a later date? Mady: We've already done it last week. Lash: Okay. Hoffman: I went through and amended everything which we talked about, which we added. We weren't as far off this year as we have been in the past years so the total amount which I came up with with all the ideas of the commission is $211,000.00. We had to reduce that by 36 to get to the targeted figure of $175,000.00 which we thought was a safe figure to go ahead and expend in 1991. So those deletions seemed to be the natural ones. Andrews: I need to ask a couple questions just to make sure I understand this, being this is my first time through this. On the first page, illustrated the 1990 status, it shows total resources over expenditures of $430,000.00.at the bottom of the page. On the back page, the projected 1991 total resources over expenditures is $248,000.00. I mean that's a substantial decline. Does that represent an erosion of our position or simply that we've allocated dollars to projects that have a long term status? Mady: We've got 3 projects in there in reserve that total $310,000.00. ,.... Hoffman: If you take a look at the bottom, the $248,000.00 and then $100,000.00 was just bumped up into land just west of Lake Minnewashta and that can very well, you know that's part of our total resources because we'll save it until something happens there where we're looking to land. The general development fund, although that's included in the following page so that doesn't reflect it correctly. The other big project then would be the $110,000.00 project which would be a capital transfer out of the dedication. Andrews: Okay. Those are both long term projects we had intended to do anyway so we're just really labeling the money instead of just calling it an open reserve at the bottom. Hoffman: So what our, if we went ahead and did not cut into our general development revenue fund balance forward and then we...1992 would be proposed at approximately $450,000.00. Andrews: Okay. Lash: Okay and then you were planning on coming UP with a system that would show which items actually did? Hoffman: Yes. Which items did actually occur so we'll go through this. When we make this up again we'll cut out probably 1988 and possibly even 1989 and show 1990 and 1991, 1992, 1993 and then we'll update the whole list so we can be more accurate in showing what has been completed. ""..... Lash: What if there are things on there in 1988 and 1989 that were never completed? There isn't any? Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 10 .,...., Mady: Bring them forward. Hoffman: We can talk about that sometime in the future at a 5 year capital improvement program budget discussion and at that time we can review this. Clean it up a little bit. See if we want to push those forward or if it was something that was talked about and decided it's not going to go. Lash: I just don't want anything to just disappear just because we're going to wipe out 1988 and 1989. Just because it got put on the back burner for 2 or 3 years doesn't mean it should be forgotten. Andrews: Last question. Do we get like a mid-ye?r update on revenues? Hoffman: You certainly can. Finalized copies will go to the Council for approval and that may occur on the 18th although the meeting that evening is tied up with interviews so then it ~ould fali.. . Mady: You might find Todd that one of the reasons was you didn't have to drop this so much from prior years is earlier years we were only able to spend usually $50,000.00 to $80,000.00 and we'd always come up with $250,000.00 of things we'd want to buy so it was easier this year when you can spend $175,000.00. Not so much to cut. Motion to approve. Lash: So moved. Andrews: Second. ,-. Lash moved, Andrews seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the 1991 Capital Improvement Budget as presented by staff. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ADMINISTRATIVE AND COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS: Mady: Any Administration items? Hoffman: Presentations? Other than the Breakfast with Santa flyer. It was well over double last year's number. The breakfast was put on by a cooperative effort between the Rotary, the Firemen, the Commerce and our department served 605 people on Sunday morning. Last year we served 275 so a big improvement. And as well the Christmas tree lighting was well attended. Well over 100 people were down there. We had Santa Claus handing out candy canes, hot cider, cookies. The Mayor hit the switch and we sang, 50 carolers from the High School came up and sang some Christmas carols so I think that's a tradition which you'll see grow in the future. And as part of that, at some point we should have some discussion in the Park Plaza tower. The clock tower plaza which is the square of land there right behind the clock tower next to the Medical Arts building will be developed somewhat like a city center park or. Mady: A mini park? ,.., Hoffman: A mini park. A decorative area. Something like the Town Square in Chaska. It's somewhat smaller but the commission would like to have some input on that. There's some design work going on right now and since the tree lighting ceremony is now kind of established in that area, they're Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 11 "'" going to redesign it again so they can plop in a big blue spruce evergreen tree so this can continue. Mady: A real one? I was wondering when I saw them drop it in here about 2 weeks ago. I was wondering why they didn't just dig the whole tree and put it down? Hoffman: That one? Mady: Yeah. That one from Halla's unless the tree's. Hoffman: This tree was too large to transplant and as well it's from the Abby Bongard property which is just across from TH5 from McDonald's where that house and land was purchased for the development of TH 101 so it will be leveled anyway. Mady: I was just wondering, you could have taken Halla Nursery's big scoop and they've got the world's largest tree scoop and maybe save it. Hoffman: Too big to move. Mady: Aw shucks. I would like to see a real growing tree. Andrews: Two comments. This one is a little belated but the Park and Rec pamphlet that did come out I thought was really good. I thought the colors were really effective. The second thing I wanted to get clarified is when ~ is our next meeting? Is it the second Tuesday or the fourth Tuesday? Hoffman: Fourth Tuesday. Fourth Tuesday of January. Mady: I had two things. One I had a phone call probably 3-4 weeks ago now from Eric Rivkin at work and he had a question on the CompPlan. I talked to Todd about it and apparently Eric decided not come forward with it or anything but he found an inconsistency in the Comp Plan and I told him I'd mention it here although I don't foresee anything being done about it. Eric was reading through the Comp Plan and he saw that in our Comp Plan one of the statements goes something to the effect that one of the goals or missions of the Park Commission is to make sure that all the parks are open to all individuals in the whole city of Chanhassen. He was questioning Greenwood Shores Park, no parking available. I told Eric that it was a politically charged it~m and I wasn't going to push it. If he wanted to do something about it, he should come forward or contact the Council but I thought it was a dead issue and had been for a couple years. The last thing I had was on Minnewashta Parkway's trail. We didn't budget anything in o~r Capital Improvem~nt Pro~ram for trails. Minnewashta Parkway's trail been talked about for 2 years. I think it's irresponsible for us to not budget something for that. I kno~ those people are going to be in here. If we expect them to pay for it out of their assessments for the roadway improvements, they're going to be very unhappy because we've really done nothing for them forever. It's a little thing but I think there's maybe $40,000.00 available toward it. I know with some of the State funding that they're getting, it might be enough to cover it, or at least. it will put a big dent in it so I think that needs to get done. ~ Park and RecCommission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 12 ",... Hoffman: After our initial discussions on that item, I put some thought into that and as noted in 1990, we did expend $13,000.00 in trail construction and what that included was basically engineering fees and construction costs for the extension of the trail coming down to the TH 5 co~struction so this dollar amount was actually upfront payment for that and now as TH 5 comes along, a trail will be included with that. It's hard to anticipate what type of engineering or consulting charges we're going to get hit ~1th on Minnewashta Parkway project and at this point it's hard to forecast what portion, if it's going to be a large portion or small portion which we would have to look to paying for the actual construction of that trail. We have the $100,000.00 fund reserved. So what I noted under trail construction for proposed 1991 is just fund reserve so if that comes in, we can haggle over the dollar amount between the engineering department and between the grant programs going on to pay for that road and assessments, those types of things. And hopefully we can get by with minimal cost out of our trail construction, park dedication fees and take the rest out ~f our reserve. At that time we'd come to the Commission and discuss all those items and obviously look for your approval... Mady: Okay. I know I'll be asked about that a number of times between now and softball season from at least one individual who lives out there and who's been very active in it so I wanted to make sure the Commission was aware of it. ".... Hoffman: If you want to be more aggressive and show that as a general reserve, you'd like to handle it that way, you can certainly do that. $50,000.00 trail reserve or construction reserve. It's hard to pinpoint since it's not as easy as we have a piece of land or we have a park or a piece of land and what are we going to do with it. These trail issues just kind of pop up as things develop and that type of thing so we can't pinpoint what we're going to be spending on trail development in future years but we can always rely on our reserve as long as it's somewhat substantial. Plus we're not taking a look at and what we need to take a look at, those dollars which are generated by the trail development fees should stay in our park dedication and trail budget for trail development. That's why we spent a small portion of what we... Lash: As long as you brought up the Comp Plan, I guess I don't recall that we ever got a finalized copy of that. Is it something that we're waiting on Council approval and then we'll get a copy? Hoffman: I'm not sure what stage it's at but we're still waiting on it. Staff has not received a final version back and I know you inquired last meeting. I'll talk with Paul Krauss and then get back to you on that prior to the next meeting. Couple other things is some situation out at the pheasant Hills property. If you all remember Carl Carrico and his involvement out there. We're not sure at what point, if he owned the land when he was authorizing this work but there's some soil testing and surveying work and that type of thing that he had done out there and now those people are coming back to the City saying we understand you own this land now and we're looking for payment. Mady: Tell them to find Carl over in Edina. ,.... .. Park and Rec commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 13 ,..., Hoffman: We certainly are doing that and if Mr. Carrico was authorizing work when he did not even own the land, which he led us to believe for a long while prior to the disclosure of all the going ons with that piece of property, then they have no recourse against us because they did work authorized by a person who did not even own the land. The City Manager did have thoughts of paying off that account so we could close that account and clean that one out but now we don't want to do that because we don't want to payoff Mr. Huffnagle and then have somebody coming back in looking for that money so as of now we'll just hold off and.. .and just wait until these things kind of filter out. One other thing, as long as Jim brought up the brochure. We are looking to a change. It's generated by the City. It's going to be a positive change in our brochure in that we're getting more requests to include information from engineering, from planning for recycling and for the library. For the things that are going on in public works. That type of thing but it's still called a recreation brochure so we will be looking to a city newsletter format as an insert or a three fold insert. Something of that nature will be the park and ,ecreation items inside of that city newsletter so sometime in the early spring you'll see the first edition of that. We think it's a good service to the citizens as a whole. The Park and Rec does offer a service and it's a very visible service but as does every other department. Public Safety, public works, engineering so it's good to let the residents know what is going on. Erhart: That's a good idea. Lash: Oh, and I did notice the week of Christmas vacation that you have an ,..., activity,planned for the kids who are out of school and I like that and I'd like to see further work done on that. I have some sign-ups for that already. But anyway, if you're interested, 1 mean I'm sure you can get from the school the calendar. There's a day coming up in January they're off and February there's a whole week. Mady: Anything further? Andrews: One more thing. Last meeting we had talked about the questions of the legality of how funds are collected from projects and how they could be allocated to projects at other sites. I don't know if we ever decided we were going to look into that or not. Hoffman: What I did is talk with the City Manager and I addressed what we had spoken about and it was his opinion as well that as long as we're sincere in our effort to meet all the needs of all the neighborhoods and the residents, there's no reason for anybody to get so upset and angry and up in arms that they're going to start a lawsuit against the City that we are not trying to meet the park and recreational needs and open space needs so it's really not a concern. Andrews: It's business as usual? Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: I appreciate the fact that you follow up on these things. I just wanted to tell you that. """ Mady: Anything else? ,..., r- r- Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 11, 1990 - Page 14 Andrews moved, Lash seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjo~rned at 8=15 p.m.. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim