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PRC 1987 07 14 PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING ~ JLY 14, 1987 Chairman Lynch called the meeting to order. MEMBERS PRESENT: Larry Schroers, Jim Mady, Mike Lynch, Curt Robinson and Sue Boyt MEMBERS ABSENT: Ed Hasek and Carol Watson STAFF PRESENT: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robinson moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meetings dated June 16, 1987 and June 30, 1987. All voted in favor and motion carried. Robinson: Can I just make a comment on the Minutes? There is a heck of a lot there, and we talked about this before, that seems like a horrendous expense to have these typed. Lynch: However the Council wants it. Robinson: I know you said that but I think you should go back to them and ".... . sk them ag a in. Sietsema: The Council really feels it's important that they hear your comments so they know where you're coming from when they're looking at a subdivision and they want to know what the Park and Rec Commission said about that. They want to know, hear the logic of how you got to that decision. Hear what the conversation was instead of my paraphrasing it or my rev i e w 0 f w hat you sa i d be c a use I c hop 0 uta lot a nd I don't get everybody's viewpoint and they want to hear how this group arrived at the decision and recommendation that they make. They are aware that it is anywhere between $150.00 to $200.00 to have the Minutes typed. Lynch: Are they all supposedly reading these things from cover to cover? Sietsema: I don't know if they all do cover to cover but they do on the items especially that accompany site plan reviews and that kind of thing and I'm assuming that they read the rest because they want to know what's going on here. You're right, it's pretty long and a lot of times we say a lot of them same stuff just to get our point across but that's the way they want it. In fact, the recommendation was made that we hire extra people so we could get them more timely. Sue Boyt: Is that going to happen? Sietsema: Don's been on vacation all week so we haven't discussed that. ~ )binson: Okay, I didn't realize that. Then I thought, I picked up Clark Horn's path before and see him all the time, we think we get a big packet, Ji Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 2 ,...., I mean that sucker's that big and some of it is books like this. Sue Boyt: I know Bill just takes the whole weekend from Friday night, all day Saturday, all day Sunday. Robinson: To do a good job I think that's what they have to do. Sue Boyt: And I think most of them do that. After talking to Bill, he wants everything in here to see how we reach a decision. Sietsema: And they're doing the same thing for the Planning Commission too. They really feel that that's important since they're the ones that have to make the ultimate decisions. SITE PLAN REVIEW: WEST VILLAGE HEIGHTS. Sietsema: I did not have a big map to show you but basically this is right at the corner of West 78th Street and Powers Blvd. and when West 78th Street is improved it's going to curve around so this will end up being on the south side of West 78th Street instead of on the north side. The actual property that this is, is right now in reality on the north side but eventually it will be on the south side because they want to move that ;ntersection as far away from TH 5 as possible so that's what they're doing. ~is is not a park deficient area. We've got City Center Park real close. _tis a General Business and high density area all the way around that area. The Comprehensive Trail Plan that we put together identifies a need for trails along West 78th and Powers Blvd.. The West 78th Street improvement includes that trail so we don't need to take additional easements along West 78th because that will be included and along Powers Blvd. we want to make sure that we do get that. In Saddlebrook the addition that's to the north of this whole block, this whole block of area, they have worked with the County and they are going to let them bench in a trail along Powers Blvd. to the north so we want that to occur along here as well. Mady: On the east side? Sietsema: Right, that's correct. So eventually we will have a trail benched in off-street along Powers Blvd. when the rest of this gets in so it will start from West 78th all the way up past Saddlebrook to where Chaparral begins and then we'll have to deal with getting that completed through in that section as well. My recommendation stands that we accept park dedication fees in lieu of park land and to request the construction of a trail along Powers Blvd. and that in lieu of trail dedication fees. Now on the commercial/industrial trail fee is one-third of the park dedication. Equal to the amount of one-third of the park dedication fees and for commercial/industrial park dedication fee is $1,035.00 per acre. This development is 3.18 acres so that's about $1,000.00, over $1,000.00 worth of trail that they would normally have to pay so we will give them credit for ~lat if they build that trail in there. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 3 ~oyt: Would it make the J or just go to the street? ...." Mady: The city is going to vacate West 78th Street? Sietsema: There will still be a street, like a frontage road or something in there as I understand it but the actual street will move up to the north. So it will go along the West 78th Street so what we'll be asking for is right in here. Right around the curve too. Mady: Is the City planning or the County planning on putting signal lights on that corner at some point in time do you know? Sietsema: that. I really don't know that. I don't even know if Planning knows Mady: Our trail out from Lake Ann comes straight out from where West 78th presently goes and we're talking about putting the trail along the curve of West 78th Street or continue it straight on the old existing road. Sietsema: That's a good question. Mady: If there's going to be signal lights up at the new intersection, it would make sense to have that be the crossing. If we can get it to the trai on the west side of CR 17. ietsema: Right, and bring that trail further up. I know with what they're"""" doing along that, I've asked Gary if we can put a change order in so they can improve that trail to 8 feet wide and possibly I can ask them to also include it up to where that intersection would be. Mady: That would make the most sense. Sietsema: I think they're starting to finish up so I need to get on that right away. Mady: That would make the most sense to have the trail end up where the road is going to actually end up being. Sietsema: The motion could read just like my recommendation if that's what... Mady: Lori, do you need a motion directing you to put a change order through? Sietsema: You could revise your motion to include that. Mady moved, Boyt seconded that the Park and Rec~eation Commission recommend accepting park dedication fees in lieu of parkland and to request the construction of a trail along Powers Blvd. in lieu of trail dedication fees. 1\lso, to instruct Staff to submit a change order to widened the trail from ake Ann to 8 feet and that it end up at the new intersection of the realigned West 78th Street. All voted in favor and motion carried. ...." Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 4 ".... PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR TENNIS COURTS AT NORTH LOTUS LAKE AND MEADOW -- GREEN PARK. Sietsema: There are some excerpts from that that are included in here and also Larry Brown, the new assistant City Engineer had made some comments. Bob do you kind of what to go over things. This is Bob Sellers, he's with VanDoren, Hazard, Stallings and he prepared the report. I didn't include costs and that kind of thing. Can you go over that too? Bob Sellers: The Meadow Green Park and we did a site evaluation out there and determined that the only location that the tennis can fit is where it is without making some major modifications. Tennis courts need to be sited north and south. It doesn't show on our site plan, that topo with the rest of the parking lot and it would be inside of the perimeter of the ballfield. There is very little grading involved. We would have to move the basketball. Schroers: It's going right in where the basketball court is? Bob Sellers: That's correct, yes. Schroers: That's by the first ballfield. There's actually two ballfields. ~ob Sellers: I've got a topo from out there and I don't know if you can, :art a worksheet. This is the existing parking lot. It's gravel. The oackstop and benches are here and this is approximately the ballfield area and it would actually overlap in the outfield area but the tennis court is 108 by 120 and the 120 would go this way. So that 120 would be just off the edge of the ballfield with a 10 foot chainlinked fence there. Sietsema: Is there anyway that we could move the parking configuration over like that so we could move it in here without taking out the basketball or anything else because this is only 3 years old. This neighborhood did put in $500.00 worth to put that in so I don't think they're going to... Schroers: And there are people shooting baskets. Sietsema: I think we would be short sighted to only put one tennis court though. Bob Sellers: We did check with the cost of replacing the basketball court or replacing'parking. I would think that they would be pretty close to a trade-off. Lynch: The parking is just gravel. Bob Sellers: It's probably 8 inches, it's our normal crushed aggregate. Sietsema: So you think to move the parking over here is as expensive as ~~placing the basketball court? Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 5 """'" Bob Sellers: Yes I do. Sietsema: What would your recommendation, I've been talking with Mark about that, to have them as a part of this project, move that to places elsewhere. Would we do that as a second bid option? Bob Sellers: We could certainly add that as an alternate. Schroers: You can't run the tennis court up this way behind the ballfield? Bob Sellers: No, this has drainage through here. Sietsema: Plus, we've got the totlot here. Mady: To me it would make the most sense just to move the basketball court over in here because when they're putting pavement in for the tennis court... Schroers: We don't have anything on this side over here? Sietsema: This is a parking lot here. Schroers: It seems like, I've played ball down there and it seemed like the ~ouses are back a ways so possibly we have a little space. Sietsema: Moving basketball here, do you think that would have any impact on this field? ...." Bob Sellers: I don't know. That's relatively small. Sietsema: Do you think we should ask the Chaparral people to corne in and ask them what they would like? If they want the tennis courts? Boyt: I don't think, when we talked to them before there were two women here and they told us they represented the neighborhood but I wasn't sure that they did. Sietsema: If we sent a letter out to the neighborhood I think we would get a little better indication. Mady: Since we already have the basketball court, I hate to take it away from them especially they put some of the money into it. Sietsema: Yes, I would say not put the tennis courts in there and leave it as it is or also we'll have to replace the basketball court somewhere. Schroers: Where is the recommendation corning from for the tennis courts? Sietsema: It was in the initial plan for this park. We didn't have a drawn ? plan. This is the best thing we've ever seen but when they acquired this park, that was always talked about so it was included in the capital """"'" Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 6 ,.... improvement program for 1987 to put that in. It is in the budget to put that this year but I don't know that we want to do away with another facility to put it in. The residents specifically came in and asked for a basketball court and I haven't heard that much talk about a tennis court. Boyt: Up at Starring Lake Park we have two tennis courts and then in the middle between them they have a basketball court. Sietsema: Is there room for something like that in here? Bob Sellers: It's 1613 feet. Here's the layout and the fence is within 15 feet of the parking lot. Two car widths and it's not too far over there. Mady: I don't think you want to push it any further to the property line because you've got housing right there. Sietsema: Again, we don't know what reactions these people are going to have having this placed right next door to them either. It isn't something that we'll put lights on or anything. Mady: But as that parcel gets more and more use, a lot of development is going on. ~hroers: Are we proposing to put two courts in or one? ::;ietsema: Two. Schroers: What if we just put one instead of two? Sietsema: I discussed that with Mark and he agreed that that would be pretty short sighted on our part to only put one in there. Boyt: Right now the courts in town I think are getting pretty full use. Sietsema: I've been getting a lot of calls on lights that keep getting broken. When they don't work we hear about it. Do we want to put this back on the neighborhood and find out what they want? Robinson: I think you should pass it by them. Sietsema: You would like to hear their comments before you make a decision? Lynch: Yes. Robinson: Or we could even come up with something and then say this is what we're proposing, what do you think about it? Lynch: I do think that we should note that we all, if we have to replace the basketball court, that they won't lose it. ~. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - page 7 ...." Sietsema: Could you go over cost on that one for me Bob? Like I said, I didn't include that in my memo. Bob Sellers: Meadow Green, we have an estimate of about $23,000.00 on that. Robinson: And what does that include? Bob Sellers: It includes site grading, moving 2 or 3 trees, paving, the color coat. Sietsema: Are those trees pretty small so they could be moved? Bob Sellers: Yes. Robinson: Does it include moving the parking lot or moving the basketball? Bob Sellers: It does not include that. Sietsema: What would you give as a ballpark figure for replacing that? Bob Sellers: I was just working on that here. Sietsema: Because I think we did that in-house. I don't think that was ~ontracted out. The basketball court. We had budgeted $20,000.00 as ulling a number out of the sky. -' Lynch: We've used $10,000.00 for courts for years. Sietsema: So I was amazed that it came in that close. Boyt: That sounds like a real good deal to me. $23,000.00 for two tennis courts. Bob Sellers: Right around $2,500.00 I think. Sietsema: Okay, so the cost of the tennis courts as you've proposed there is $23,000.00 and as a rough gesstimate to replace the existing basketball as it is would be about $2,500.00. Bob Sellers: I can take a look at comparing that with moving the parking lot or doing something else with the parking lot. Sietsema: Would you like to direct Bob to go back and give us a recommendation on whether to move the parking or move the basketball and at the same time I can put this back on the next agenda and send out a letter to the Chaparral people and let them know what we're doing so you make a final decision based on those things. Robinson: Would we consider doing that this year even though we have the unds appropriated for this year? can """",. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 8 "...." Sietsema: How fast could we get bids out? Bob Sellers: It takes two weeks to advertise and about two weeks after that to work through all the contracts. 5 to 6 weeks from the time that you advertise before you can start construction. Construction on this would take a month. Sietsema: So do you think that it's realistic to think that we could get that done before November 15th or whatever the deadline is? Bob Sellers: I wouldn't see a problem with that. Sietsema: If for some reason we wouldn't be able to do that, those funds can be rolled over into next year and we can do it next year. Schroers: Then in your letter to the residents, are you going to ask them for any kind of response or is it just notification of our intent? Sietsema: I think I'll do a notification that there is consideration of two tennis courts going in and include a plan with it going over the basketball and if they have any comments or whatever, they are welcomed to attend the meeting and voice their concerns or opinions. Because if they don't care, we don't necessarily need to hear from them then. I would need a motion to ;..ha t effect. nobinson moved, Schroers seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission table the tennis court plans and specifications for Meadow Green Park until the next meeting and during that time VanDoren, Hazard and Stallings will come back with a recommendation on how to position the parking lot, basketball court and Staff will notify the Chaparral homeowners of the Commission's intent. All voted in favor of tabling the item and motion carried. TENNIS COURT PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR NORTH LOTUS LAKE. Bob Sellers: This kind of goes along with the update. Lynch: We were over there tonight Bob. Bob Sellers: Construction has started. There has been some problem with the contract documents so temporarily... Lynch: We're aware of that. Bob Sellers: Yes, he's about half done so as soon as that grading is done, that could be done. The cost on that one was $20,000.00. There's not as much site work involved. ,..-...ietsema: Does tha t wor k i nc 1 ude the par king area too or any 0 f tha t road : is all that going to be done with that street? Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 9 ...." Bob Sellers: No, that goes with the subdivision. Sietsema: So the subdivision has to pay for that parking area too? Bob Sellers: Yes, that's my understanding. Lynch: Now, who's putting in the ballfield at North Lotus Lake? Is that city crew or is that part of the contract? Sietsema: Yes, the city will be installing that. Doing all the finishing work. Bob Sellers: The contract for that includes just the grading and placing top soil back on. Lynch: The parking area, not the tennis court site but just the... Bob Sellers: That will just be graded. There will be nothing done to this. Sietsema: The City will finish that one too and put gravel in so it will look like the one at Meadow Green. Our park maintenance crew did the ballfields at Meadow Green Park as well so they do a pretty good job. ~ynch: They did the original Lake Ann way back when. Sietsema: The original grading you mean? ......" Lynch: The original field out there. Sietsema: I think this one is pretty straight forward and my recommendation would be to recommend... a better deal if we have them do both sites. Lynch: Wait until we look at the other one and approve them both together in a package? Sietsema: You could approve this and I will still hold it before it goes to City Council. Boyt: I have a question about the chainlinked fence, what's the height of that? Bob Sellers: 19 feet. Boyt: Is there any wind screen on it? Bob Sellers: No. Sietsema: We would have to budget for that in the next year. ....." Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 10 ",....... Mady moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to approve the North Lotus Lake tennis court plans and specifications as shown and hold letting the bids to be done at the same time as the Meadow Green Park tennis courts if those are approved. All voted in favor and motion carried. UPDATE: NORTH LOTUS LAKE PARK DEVELOPMENT. Lynch: We've pretty much gone through North Lotus Lake so there isn't anything else remaining there. UPDATE: 4TH OF JULY CELEBRATION. Sietsema: I don't really have a whole lot more to add. There were a few other expenses besides what was in here and that was mainly advertising. I had a couple ads, an ad go out in the Sailor and... Lynch: Do you think there were any of the activities that were losers this year? Anything you wouldn't want to do again next year? Low interest or difficult to manage? Sietsema: No, I think we would do more for the canoe because I think that ~an be a really nice program. It is kind of a hassle if you have to bring our own canoe. I think we would have gotten a lot more interest if we had canoes provided out there but I think if we do a little more promotion on that one and get the neighborhoods against each other and that kind of thing. Get some neighborhood rivalry going we could probably get more interest in a lot of these things. In fact, I would like to add a few things. All of the things that went this year went great and I would do them again next year. Lynch: Anything that went better than expected? Sietsema: The fishing contest was better than I had expected because first year things have a tendency not to do that great. The family games went great. I had 100 people up there and last year I think I had 15. It's the day too, it seems like the day of the week it really depends on how many people there are. I had a ton of people up there the first year when it was on a Wednesday too so I don't know. I think the 2 day celebration kind of helped because I think that kind of had people stay in town for the event because there was more things offered to them all weekend long but it was really fun. The innertube races were a blast. They were really fun. We had fun putting them on because the people got so crazy. We had these inner tubes that are about this big and these little kids could hardly reach the water and then their parents try to jump on them and try to be fast and just go head over heels in the water so we had a lot of fun with it. The prizes that were donated were really great. One little girl went home with a little tric and her mom came the next day, whe said I couldn't get her off ~a t th i ng to go to bed she was so happy tha t she won th i s tr i c. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 11 ....", Schroers: It sounds like you had enough cooperation from volunteers and staff, you had plenty of help. Sietsema: Yes I did. Todd and his wife came out and helped and she's a park and recreation major too and they did a great job together. They're really good with people and my sister was out there helping with the family games too and between the four of us, it wasn't any problem. Todd pretty much ran the fishing contest and got that going and he had gotten the bait shop to donate all the bait and everything for that. Kids were catching fish like crazy. Robinson: I think you get a lot of mileage out your, and thank you for your nice little thank you note. I really think that's a good idea. I really do. I volunteer at church a lot and you don't hear anything and pretty soon it's just taken for granted. I didn't expect it but you also sent one when my wife helped at Easter and she really appreciated it. Sietsema: I think it's only fair. You people are putting out your volunteer time on a holiday when you could be doing other stuff and I sure apprciate it. Robinson: I take it as part of being on the Park and Rec Commission but I really think you get a lot of mileage of that. ietsema: That's good because we send out to all the people that donated too and made contributions and in fact, in some years, like for the big ....", contributors, people who contribute towards the fireworks, we send them a t-shirt too. We ran out of them this year so we didn't get to. Robinson: And hand written, I think that's a good idea. Sietsema: They don't always get hand written but good, I'm glad to hear that. Next year I think we have already talked about a couple other things. Doing our bike outing and doing a little more promotion on that. There were I think he said 6 families that came to check that out and as our trail system develops too I think that will be a nice deal. It was kind of tough this year with the trail being torn up between downtown and Lake Ann but there was still some interest in that. Next year I think we'll have the two day event again. It will be on Saturday and Sunday next year. I think the people do kind of stay in town for it. People are trying not to drive as much on the holidays and that kind of thing and if they have something to stay in town for. Robinson: The 4th is on a Monday next year? Sietsema: Sunday. Robinson: It's leap year. ietsema: Oh, it is on Monday. Then we'll probably do it on Sunday and Monday. We'll have a three day event. ....", Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 12 .,..., Boyt: I have a comment about the band. I enjoyed it but when I was there the adults weren't dancing so we might look at more adult oriented. Sietsema: Actually, the adults won't dance during the daylight hours but when the fireworks are done, the adults were out there and they were having a blast and that band was so great because they did the hokey-pokey and they did stuff that was, because all that was out there would have been kids anyway. I can't believe that there are very many adults that are going to get out there and dance in the sunshine. It just doesn't happen no matter what your band is. That's me feeling anyway. And for him to have 50 little kids up there, on the table, 2 inches from the stage and then he gets out there in the middle of the crowd and they just crowded around him, he got going on the hokey pokey and kids just flocked out of the woodwork. I swear they squeezed through the fence because they all got up there and they were all doing the hokey pokey. . for a family group, I thought they were a real good band. Schroers: I thought the band did a good job too but they were about octaves louder than they needed to be. They were really loud. Sietsema: That's because we told them to blast because we wanted everybody in town to hear that the dance was going. Next year we'll tone it down. ~obinson: I take it you think it worked better not to charge admission? Sietsema: Yes. I 1 i ke to have th i ngs free whenever we can and it was no problem to budget for it so I think the whole, we had budgeted for the band and we had budgeted for the fireworks and after all the donations and we took in the receipts at Lake Ann and put that towards the 4th of July, I think we down about $600.00. That's nothing for all that we did. Lynch: It's one of the few things we can do all year to build a sense of community here and our community is kind of fractured anyway. If it cost us $2,000.00 or $3,000.00 even it would be well worth it. Boyt: It's the only community activity the whole year. Sietsema: Well, the Easter Egg Hunt and the Halloween Party. Lynch: You're looking for something for all classes and size and ages. Sietsema: I thought we really achieved that. Lynch: I had a lot of positive comments on the free food. Sietsema: hot dogs. Don wants to do that again next year. Maybe not 3,000 of them. He wants to budget for the ~ynch: Oddly enough, the weathiest guys that I saw there were the most .mpressed about getting a free hot dog. I kept saying you can have all you Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 13 want and they would say, certainly I'll have another one. ..."", Robinson: Did you have a lot left over? Sietsema: We had about 1,500 left over. The food shelf got them. Schroers: The 2 day event lent itself particular well to the softball tournament too. A 2 day softball tournament is really much better. Otherwise, if you lose and get in the losers bracket and then to go out after that and you end up playing so many games in one day you're about delirious by the time you're finished. We start delirious and try to work it off but this year... Sietsema: Maybe next year having it on the two weekend days we'll get more teams too but because it was on a Fr iday, I th ink there were a few people who had to work still on Friday and I think that kind of hurt us. We only had 9 teams this year and I think we filled out with 12 last year. I know we did the year before when it's just a one day but then there are so many games that you have to play. We could have had 16 teams with a 2 day tournament very easily. Then we thought about having three brackets instead but it got too late to keep it going. Schroers: The comments that I heard from most of the players were that they were highly in favor of having two days. _.I.etsema: Even when it's on in the middle of the week we could start it the -' night before. Except then it would be league night probably and we couldn't do that but we could think of something. UPDATE: SOUTH LOTUS LAKE BOAT ACCESS. Sietsema: Basically that came back because there were some questions from you on that one. Where it is as far as completion. As I understand it, we need to put the wear course on and we need to do some final landscaping around the turn around area. The trail has to be put in along the side of the road too. Bob Sellers:The trails go in and there is some replacement. Trees have to be replaced and we're aSking that it be reseeded. Sietsema: Do you have any idea when all that stuff will be done? Bob Sellers:I keep calling the contractor. I talked to him yesterday and told him that the trail would go with the wear course and we want that done next week. He's dragging his feet on it. Lynch: There's those two center islands down below, which is a drainway which needs to be sodded, the other one needs to be seeded and then there's seeded side. Dale and I went down there this morning to look at it and --' Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 14 ~ ~nere was never any black dirt put in there at all. That's all yellow clay and rock. Bob Se11ers:There was black dirt. What we had on-site is what was spread out. Lynch: Well, they spread it too thin and she washed off. Bob Se11ers:We seeded late in the fall and we had no snow cover on it. Sietsema: It probably blew off. Bob Se11ers:They discavated real well. I will give them credit for that but the winter was just not a good winter for seeding. The year before we seeded Lake Ann later than that and that took real well. Lynch: With snow on it. Sietsema: So will they reseed that then? ,/..,- "'I Lynch: The furthest down of the two islands which is to be a drainage island does need to be filled in some more and recontoured because there is a large puddle in that that's below the level of the outlet tiles but that's supposed to be sodded. ~b Se11ers:I don't think we'll sod it now because any areas, if we could ~t it graded so it won't pond water, then it could be sodded. We did some changes on the plans and specs. All the sodding down below was added because that was originally intended to be seeded but, as you're aware, we had so much erosion problems that we chose to sod that down below which was a good deci sion. Lynch: I would think that that would more than surface. Bob Se11ers:The city has been doing work in the lift station in there. Lynch: They put a new ramp in there. That upper island is deficient in soil too. That should be built up a little bit. It's a little low. I don't know whether they scraped it out of there. Bob Se11ers:I don't know where they got that because as they built up the access for the lift station, they brought that dirt in from somewhere. Robinson: There are a number of dead trees up by the parking lot. The contractor will replace those? Bob Se11ers:That's true. He can do that. Robinson: It looks like they just didn't water them. ~hroers: It's probably cheaper to put new trees in than it is to have meone go out and water them. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 15 Sietsema: If it would have rained it probably would have been alright. -' Lynch: A few additional notes, Dale and I went down there this morning to look to see what we're going to do with that spur of property we have that goes west into the woods and decided ultimately not to do anything with it because Herb's got, his home is going up there and for the first time you can see how close that little plateau is. If you stand right at that boat landing and face up the hill to the right of the picnic tables and there's a little steep hill than there's a plateau. We thought at one time that would make a nice little activities area but it's about 20 feet from somebody's back door. We also found another interesting thing I mentioned to Lori to look into it, there's a trail service right now, heavy duty service it looks like that runs from the boat landing all the way up to I think it's Frontier Trail. It comes all the way down there. It hits a private lake lot that's not large enough to built on. It's owned by three families according to Dale, his best memory. One of the people live up on the hill over it. There's a road that goes up and hits Frontier then, a private road with a steel gate there. There's a large city drainway that runs right down next to that road so I'm going to look at (a) see if we have enough access on that drainway to get down to where the trail is. (b) I'll canvas the people that are living on this trail to see if they would be interested in having a trail there. One of the neighbors in the middle of the trail has gone so far as to have woodchips hauled in and woodchipped the trail. There has ~een obvious recent and older chainsaw work along the trail where people .eep it open. There were two folks today that were over there that parked their car up on top by the boat landing, walked down below, walked down the ~ trail and waded out into the lake. Two women in their 40's in their bathing suits and set about catching crappies. I know it's all private property but they seemed to know right where they were going so they've gone in there before. There's some activity level in there. But it looked like a neat trail if we could hook up the Western Hills area with the boat landing and people wouldn't have to go all the way around. The bulk of the people who live in Herb's new development would have a way to get across without going downtown. If they wanted to go across to school. Boyt: In talking to some of the neighbors, I think there are about 17 families that own that beachlot or used to and I don't know if it still is. That would be a big problem with beer parties down there. Lynch: If we have enough access on that drainway'that goes down there, we really won't have to get on that property or use their road. Robinson: That drainway, that's right next to my house and it comes up and it's private proprty all around to the end of it. Lynch: Where it hits the street? Robinson: Yes. The way it comes up to the top. It comes up on 77th Street or just a little ways off of 77th street so I don't know. ~ynch: It didn't look like it hit the street right next to the gate. ~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 16 ""'" Robinson: Maybe it does over there on Frontier Trail. Maybe it does. big ravine that goes all the way down, maybe it would be Frontier Trail would be the next one over. I agree, it's nicer than heck down there. kids on our block use that trail. The that The Lynch: The folks that have the gate in, blocked the pedestrian entryway there so they have this big steel gate and this huge big post that sits on it and then this tree and it's what, 2 feet away from this tree and there's this heavy duty trail right through there. They just didn't want any vehicles down in there I assume. It will take me 20 minutes to see who owns the property and a couple hours to call and if we get one real bad call it's a forget it deal but I thought if I tried the private landowners first, if that goes then approach Herb and see what he says. Mady: I've got a couple of questions Lori. Has anybody talked to the Legion about the Lake Ann shelter? Every time I go out there it just bothers me to see all the stuff sitting there and nothing's being used and it's the middle of July. Sietsema: They were go i ng to go out there and do it and Tom had a crew together, a bunch of volunteer, they all had the date set and Tom when in for a gallbladder operation. I saw in and out so he's out and about but I haven't talked to him since then. I've talked to another guy up at the ~egion, evidentally there's been some miscommunication and some bad feelings nd feuds going on back and forth with Tom and the rest of the group up chere and they are just getting to the point where they just want to have it hired done and add it to the bill. I told them I was to the point that if I hadn't heard anything that was going to be done by the 15th, I was going to write them a letter and say either do it and get it done by this date or I'll have it done and add it to your bill because we've got a bill schedule out there for them and it's supposed to start as soon as they're done so we have it set up for payment on June 1st so they're behind two payments already because it isn't done. Robinson: Let's just pick a date and do that like, what's reasonable. Mady: August 1. Let's give them two weeks to decide something and do it. Sietsema: I had talked to Gary Warren, the Engineer and got his approval to use Mike Wegler and Jerry Schlenk one morning to get the floor poured and get those beams up and from. then on out, like Mike said, the boy scouts can come in and finish it after that. After that heavy duty stuff is done but we can't do anything until that's done. I don't know if it's something we could do in-house but I'm at this point where I can't deal with it anymore. I get asked this four times a week. What's the status on this Legion shelter? Mady: Why don't we direct you to give them an ultimatim through August 1 and just go with it from there. ,..... Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 17 ::sietsema: I will get in touch with Tom and the Legion again this week and get a move on it. I'll give you a status report on it on the July 28th meeting as well. But getting back to South Lotus before we continue so we can wrap that up, we can expect that most of that work will be done before the end of July? ....", Bob Sellers:Yes. Sietsema: Okay because I need to have those bills all submitted so I can close out that LAWCON project. LAWCON is calling me and saying let's get this over with or you're going to have to amend your project for a later date and I don't want to do that because they look at those kinds of things. Getting your projects done on time when they consider future projects and since we had four of them on the South Lotus Lake boat access, I don't want to push this one if we don't have to. Mady: The Legion's Little League ballpark...we don't have any control over that? Sietsema: All we do is mow it. That's all we have to do with it. I don't schedule it. They allow CAA, Babe Ruth to play on it but they do the scheduling and they're supposed to be responsible for all the upkeep so they're going to improve the dugouts and redo the infield and smooth out the outfield or whatever. They were going to have a few workdays and have some 'ople who were going to go out there and do that. ...., Mady: Another thing, I was wondering if anyone has tried to invite the City Council back in to talk to us to discuss where they are wanting us to start sighting parkland down in the undeveloped areas and I think we should get together and just go over everything. Sietsema: I did talk to Mark about that and Bill Boyt had called me and told me that that was something the Council was looking for and that should be something that should go into the Comprehensive Plan and we're still updating that. We got sidetracked, not sidetracked but a big portion of that was including that trail plan and so Mark will be coming in on the 28th and we will be talking about finishing up the items on the trail plan and what we have left to do with the updating process. In that process we will want to identify so I asked him to look at that and come up with some recommendations or how we should approach that because at this point it's hard to just look at a map and say I want a park right there and right there without knowing where the development is going to be but I understand that they want to know ahead of time so when a developer comes in you can show him, look at here we said 5 years ago that we wanted that park so fork it over. Mady: I was thinking it might be helpful for all concerned, especially since we have a number of new Park and Rec Commissioners that have never met with the Council, just to meet the Council and get the Council's view on --~at they expect of us because we report directly to them. We don't .cessarily have to put things to the City Council so the City Council ..."" Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 18 ,..., approves it. That's not what I think we're here for but we should at least have their thoughts if we're heading in the right direction. Sietsema: Before I would set up a meeting like that I would want to have something, a hard agenda so we're not just coming in to chat. I would need to have some concrete things that we wanted to discuss. That's fine, we can do that. Mady: I think it would be helpful for the new members. Sietsema: First of all I would need a motion from the whole commission here that they want to requets a joint meeting with the City Council and then within that motion set up the things that you would want on the agenda. Mady: I'll talk to you. Boyt: I think it might also work out to invite members of the City Council to our meetings. Mady: I was thinking of just meeting with us informally. Sietsema: If the Council meets all in one group it has to be advertised or something about them meeting. I don't know the details. "-"ady: The last one I had was on the Council meeting schedule where we're supposed to be attending council meetings, I know the last meeting the Commissioner that was there didn't stick throughout the meeting and the park issues came up late in the meeting so they didn't have Minutes and they didn't have a Park commissioner there to know what we were thinking and to me, I think it's important if you're going to be there that you should stick it through. Sietsema: Who was at the last meeting? Mady: Carol. Sietsema: Were you there too? Mady: No. Sietsema: What were the items? Mady: I don't know specifically. Boyt: One of them was the 399 acre development. Mady: I was at the one where they talked about West Lake Susan Hills. I'm not sure what came up at the last meeting. There were a couple of smaller subdivisions. "" ietsema: Peaceful Hills. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 19 --' Robinson: Do we have a schedule of commissioners to attend? Sietsema: No, I was going to talk about that next~ We didn't set up a scheudle last time. I was just going to see who wanted to do it next. I'll make a note with Karen to make sure you get an agenda, a packet of information so you can follow what they're doing. *A tape break occured in the meeting at this point. Mady: ... I mentioned to them that it would be really nice if he would provide a couple of picture to you and have those put into both the South Shore Sailor, the Carver County Herald, the Chan Post, showing what an Eagle Scout was doing in the community and what's being done with the trails in the community. Showing the people there's someplace down here where they can go that's really neat. It's got a good view and that it exists. Lynch: Just a general piece of information, every Eagle project, the booklet that goes into International Boy Scouts of America has to have extensive pictures in it so anytime there's an Eagle project going on, there's going to be 50 or 60 pictures taken of various stages. Boyt: I just met a new reporter for the Herald and he wants some Chan stories. Sietsema: The Herald has a new editor. It's LaVonne Berrick who was doing ~ our city news letter and everything that went into the South Shore Weekly so I think we can count on getting a lot better news coverage in the Herald from here on out. Boyt: I'll give them a call and give them Jeremy's name and they can come take pictures. Sietsema: I will give LaVonne a call to and let her know that that might be something that she would want to cover and also Mike Krause with the South Shore Weekly. Lynch: We did get a hot call from a scout in Chaska, one of the Chaska troops that wanted to do a project. He heard via the grapevine that troop projects were available and he didn't have one. Robinson: A quick question, parking at Lake Ann. How tough are we on parking on the grass? Is that really a no no? It was a year or two ago. I see they're doing it. sietsema: I told them at the softball tournament at the 4th of July, I went up there and told the softball players that if they're parked on the grass or where they shouldn't be they better move their car because they would be ticketing that day. I got a lot of grumbles but Frank was supposed to be. s long as there is parking available somewhere in that park they should not oe parked on the grass and there is plenty of parking in that second lot in~ Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 20 ",.... from the road. They just think if there isn't enough parking on those two lots that are right between 2 and 3 that they should be able to park on the grass and I don't think that's right. I can make a note to the public . safety that they should be tougher on that because I think we did want to crack down. Schroers: What grass are you talking about? Are you talking about up that little gravel road towards where the storage building is there? Back toward the tennis court? Sietsema: No, like sometimes they park right in the entrance off on the side of the road of either one of those parking lots or they're parking along the side of the road. Along the side of the tarred road, the entrance road. Mady: I always figured it was acceptable to park out by the storage building. Sietsema: It is but they don't need to park on the grass there either. There's parking up on top of that hill but they don't necessarily need to be right inbetween the two sheds up there. There is parking up there all on the gravel. You don't necessarily need to be parking on grass there either. ~obinson: I see there's a sign that says overflow parking and I thought it . as permissible then to park up there on the grass. Schroers: I think everyone is under that impression because they just pull right in on the grass. Mady: I think it's just automatically, when you get the late game there, there's no way, you're not going to find a spot. Robinson: I think way up on the hill. Sietsema: You drive into Lake Ann and there's the two parking lots on either side of the road and if you go in further, there's usually plenty of parking in that lot there. Mady: In the summer on the hot days it's usually full. It has been full. Schroers: It's been full twice this year because I drive in and make the whole circle and I've had to go back to the overflow because it's been filled but then in a matter of 20 minutes or so, when your game starts and the other game is over, some people are going to leave immediately after the game so then it looks like there is parking available but actually when you drove in there really wasn't. Sietsema: It's hard to ticket for that very reason. It's full at 6:30 and it isn't at 7:30. ,..... .obinson: I don't know how tough we want to be. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 14, 1987 - Page 21 Lynch: I always felt to let that place was parking deficient and when those-' new fields go in and that other road goes in, I want some heavy duty parking over there. Not these little 20 car lots. Schroers: I think if we're experiencing damage to the grass and creating a safety hazard that we should be taking stronger measures but if we're really not doing any harm. It seems like things have been running pretty smoothly. Mady: We should safety problem. in. Maybe there start ticketing. try ticketing in the driveway areas though. That is a I know it gets to a point where you can hardly get a car needs to be a sign. We need to instruct first before we Sietsema: They can write warnings for a while. Mady: Maybe that would be the idea. write warnings for the rest of the year and then next year start after a couple weeks. Warn the rest of the year and the first couple weeks of next year and then from that point do the access area. That would give everybody the opportunity to warn them. Sietsema: What they'll want to do is warn at the beginning of the season and ticket at the end of the season every year probably. Fine, I can talk to Jim about that. oyt moved, Mady seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and motion carr ied. ...."", Submitted by Lori Sietsema Park and Rec Coordinator Prepared by Nann Opheim ..."",