PRC 1987 09 22
CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
~ SEPTEMBER 22, 1987
Vice Chairman Mady called the meeting to order.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Mady, Larry Schroers, Sue Boyt, Ed Hasek and
Carol Watson
"..
.;--.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Lynch and Curt Robinson
STAFF PRESENT: Lori Sietsema, Park and Rec Coordinator and Todd Hoffman,
Park and Rec Assistant
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Page 33 from the September 8, 1987 Park and
Recreation-tommission Minutes were missing from the packet.
Therefore, the Commission decided to wait until they see Page 33 to
approve the Minutes.
REVIEW FINAL DRAFT OF THE RECREATION SECTION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE
-- --
PLAN.
Mark Koegler: You recall last time we said we'd come back with just
the beginning run through of the balance of the recreation plan
update. Just a couple comments on the format of this, since it's been
a while since you've seen it. The way it was presented to you and the
way the entire Comprehensive Plan Update is being done, specifically
that it's going to be put on the Ci ty's word processors so we're going
through and just doing scratch changes and substitutes and eventually
it will all be packaged into one nice, neat little entity. There's a
lot of material that you've received. The amount of change to it in
some cases is fairly significant. In some cases it's minor and others
there's none at all. The volume of it though, as you recognize, is
fairly significant and as a result of that, my expectations aren't for
you to give unanimous approval or modified approval or anything to us
this evening. I don't think that's fair. We will give you a little
bit of time to review that so certainly we will be glad to come back
next meeting or the next two meetings or whatever it takes to go
through this and continue to work with it. I almost think rather than
going through item by item, it may be more beneficial if we just
opened it up to comments or questions or things you have. I guess I
particularly would like again, input from the Commission on the
recommendation aspects as per the specific park sites. If there is
anything you saw in there that you thought should be changed or added
to, those kind of things I think are very important because that quite
honestly is probably one of the sections of the recreation chapter
that will be used the most. They'll use that in discussion with
Council at budget time and there will be segment for the capital
improvement programming. The trail plan is essentially as you've seen
it before. There are some updates that still need to be done to that.
They are fairly minor in scope but need to be done between now and the
next time we meet. I should indicate that last night, I think you're
probably aware the City Council had a general discussion session. One
,...
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 2
of the items on the agenda was the trail plan. It consisted really
of me just giving them a brief overview and then a series of questions
that the council members posed. I don't think there were anything in
terms of new ideas or thoughts or concepts were brought up that hadn't
been discussed before this body before and the general consensus was
that there is now, or about to be, a proposed revised meeting date for
the joint meeting between the Park Commission and Council, and at that
time we will go through the entire trail plan in detail for the
Council's benefit primarily and obviously it's kind of a refresher for
the Commission. So with that as background, we can handle this
however you like but I would suggest maybe if you just want to focus
on comments or questions that you have as you were going through
particularly paying attention to, as I mentioned the parks and what
kind of recommendations you would make and then also, if there is
anything in here that you think is either not heavy enough, if you
will or anything that we missed. Any general thoughts or planning
thoughts that you had which should be incorporated, if you could bring
those to our attention, we'll certainly work with that and bring it
back to you next time. So with that, I'll be quiet and listen.
Jim Mady: I'll start. One thing I saw in the trail plan on TR-5. It
talked about Western Hills Pond and it stated maybe a woodchip trail.
I see the rollers in there and the asphalt lane, whatever they call
,... that machine, sitting there. I'm sure that's going to be done within
the next week. That might as well be put in as bituminous now.
Mark Koegler: I should also add that there are a number of those kind
of items. There are some errors in here. I know park names and
things that Lori and have talked about and we're going to sit down and
go through this and pick up all those kinds of things but that's
valid. If there are things like that that are just on the horizon
that are going to be done, let's get those reflected in the copy at
this time.
Lori Sietsema: Did you mean all the way around the pond or just to
the top of the steps?
Jim Mady: Just to the top. The other trail isn't.
Sue Boyt: Had we dec ided on what type of tra i 1 to pu t around the
pond?
Jim Mady: No, it's going to be a natural trail.
Lori Sietsema: It hasn't been decided though.
Mark Koegler: So the bituminous will go from the stairway area right
now back to Laredo. Will there be any parking provided?
,..... Jim Mady: Not until next year. On the back of Page R-48 it says Meadow
Green Park and in the middle of the paragraph it says, at the present
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 3
time tennis courts will be constructed in the park so this is a final
plan.. .
-'
Jim Mady: On the back of page R-48. On R-59 talking about Meadow
Green Park, the number 2 talks about the parking area. It's a general
discussion, for the Commission at least, this year they would like to
open that parking area up. Then there would be, with the recommendation.
I didn't want to put in number 2. Parking area should not be opened.
That doesn't reflect my view.
Sue Boyt: We're still waiting from input from the Sheriff.
Mark Koegler: That was a kind of interesting turn of events. This was
the text from the 1989 plan. It kind of went full circle and back to
that. Do you want to soften that language? How do you want to approach
that?
Jim Mady: It's my personal feeling that that parking area is going to be
updated, upgraded so it's going to be a confined area to allow for 4 or 5
cars at the most. It will probably be paved with a series of bollards
put in so it's going to be, not to allow people to get their 4 wheel
drives into the lake and that type of thing. Allor for 3 or 4 cars in
there.
....,.,
Carol Wa tson: If we stayed with one way or the other, it would be
erroneous 9 months from now. We don't know how it's going.
Sue Boyt: Should we just take out number 2?
Mark Koegler: You can certainly change this at any point in the future.
You can add.
Carol Watson: Update it or something.
Mark Koeg 1 er: There are two ways we can approach it. We could remove it
or I could create some language that's ambigious in there that along the
lines of, if it becomes appropriate, put parking in.
Jim Mady: I'd like to see that.
Mark Koegler: The value of having some reference in there to any
improvement you think is a possibility is that we use this documentation
in support of the LAWCON, LCMR grants. That's not to say you're going to
go for one in Greenwood Shores but if you're going for one somewhere
else, it's nice to be able to pull the plan out and say, look here,
number 3 is exactly the project we're going after. So if there's doubt
and it's appropriate, put it in.
......",
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 4
,.....
Jim Mady: On R-Sl, number 6 and 7 were taken out and the one talking
about fishing docks, I'm not sure what the dock looks like that's down
there. I know I've seen a couple of the other ones in the City. What's
the one at Lake Ann Park fishing dock along the trail, is that a regular
boarded dock with sides?
Lori Sietsema: It doesn't have sides.
Todd Hoffman: It's an aluminum plank dock rolled out.
Jim Mady: I don't consider those fishing docks. They're not a
fishing dock. The one I know that's at Lotus Lake Boat Access,
I'm concerned all that dock is good for is pulling a boat out.
doesn't provide a kid with a safe place to fish. I'd like the
here better with similar to those of the cities lakes. That's
in mind for fishing docks.
safe
as far as
It
wording in
what I had
Sue Boyt: with rails.
Jim Mady: We don't need a dock there with a boat landing and tying boats
up.
Carol Watson: But our definition of fishing docks has always just been a
.,..... regular dock structure right?
Lori Sietsema: Yes, I know that you were interested in having railings
on the dock that was at South Lotus Lake but we didn't have money in the
budget for it. It was $1,000.00 more almost for that addition so we got
the dock out there and we can add money for adding those railings.
Jim Mady: I'd like to see us put railings on.
Mark Koegler: Would you like to leave that one in?
Jim Mady: I'd like to leave that in there.
Larry Schroers: Are you talking about docks like they have in the
Minneapolis lakes?
Jim Mady: Fishing pier.
Larry Schroers: Yes, we have a fishing pier like that at Hyland Park and
it's a real nice unit but it's also a pretty costly thing. It's really
large and you need to install that on a float basis to allow for the
raising and lowering of the lake and so you can get it in and out so it's
not damaged by ice when the ice breaks up. It's kind of a fairly large
project putting the dock in and out.
,.....
Jim Mady: I think it's something we need to get some thought to more
just to make it a better situation. Providing fishing docks for the kids
for all members of the City is important because we have some nice lakes.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 5
......,
Carol Watson: Maybe we could redefine a fishing dock. The definitions
end up being terribly important. How you define the structure.
Jim Mady: On page R-52, number 12, at the end of that paragraph it talks
about a new storage facility at Lake Ann Park and the City has recently
taken action to remove the existing barn and to supply such a facility.
That needs to be. R-53, which is Chanhassen Pond, number 3 says to
provide adequate housing, roosting areas and food for a variety of
species of wildlife. We've discussed that several times in the last
couple of meetings and we would prefer it to remain as a natural area and
not provide housing or food for wildlife that's going to attract more and
possibly cause problems that we don't really need.
Larry Schroers: We wouldn't do anything to attract a larger population.
Carol Watson: But we wouldn't do anything to distract them either?
Larry Schroers: No.
Sue Boyt: We're taking care of number 7 too.
Jim Mady: On R-62, talking about Zone 4, Lori at the last Council
meeting that approved a number of developments. Is Curry Hills, is that
Centex Homes?
Lori Sietsema: Centex and Curry Farms is the same.
.....",
Jim Mady: Okay, that was approved. I think it could be added in...under
the park area. There are a couple others for improvement too.
Mark Koegler: I could include that one if you like.
Jim Mady: I'd like to see that since it's, I'm not sure exactly what
approval Don might need to check that but there's some type of approval
from the Council. I saw it in the paper today.
Lori Sietsema: Yes, it was given final plat approval.
Mark Koegler: That question you had reviewed at one time and it shows,
at least conceptual facilities. Ball diamond and parking up above, if I
remember, does that have this group's blessing as far as facilities go?
Jim Mady: No, when we looked at it I didn't like the location of a
couple of things but if I remember right he had a ballfield, a tennis
court, basketball court and totlot and parking area up above.
Mark Koegler: The only reason I ask is because we would reference that
if those were the facilities.
Jim Mady: That's what they showed on the plot.
.....",
,....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 6
Mark Koegler: Does that park have a name?
Lori Sietsema: Not officially. It's been so long
new land that we haven't really named the park yet.
just recently approved. Do you want to name it now?
probably just refer to it as Curry Farm park until we
name.
since we've acquired
Being that it was
I think we'll
change it to some
Carol Watson: Do the developers sometimes name them or do we name them?
Lori Sietsema: We usually name them. They usually get the name of
whatever the development is.
Jim Mady: Lake Susan Park was changed from Chan Lakes Park and City
Center Park used to be City Hall Park.
Lori Sietsema: Western Hills Park is now Chan Pond Park.
Jim Mady: That's all I had. We can start with Larry and go around for
comments.
JIll""
Larry Schroers: I just had a couple of general things. Referring back
to what you said in your first comment about the woodchip. I would just
like to address woodchip trails in general. It's been our experience
that woodchip trails are a high maintenance, very higb maintenance type
of trail surface. Also, they are not conducive to handicaps and we've
found that wherever we can, we've been eliminating the use of woodchips
because it's just too costly and too inaccessible for handicap people and
elderly people. Anyone that has difficulty walking finds that they have
a hard time on woodchips so if we could stay away from that as much as we
can, I think that would be a good idea.
Mark Koegler: What are you doing as an alternative? Are you using
compacted rock?
Larry Schroers: Either bituminous or lime rock. We have the lime rock
handicap trail at Carver Park that seems to be working out pretty well.
Ed Hasek: Is 1 i me rock, more or less suscept i ble to washout than
woodchip?
Larry Schroers: It's less susceptible than woodchip. Woodchips are made
of wood and they float. They wash out very easily. A better alternative
would be just to seed the area and have natural turf. In the long run
it's easier to take care of and less expensive. You just run a lawn
mower over it and you don't have to haul in truckloads of woodchips every
few years to freshen up the old chips so in an area where you were going
to have a nature trail or a hiking trail or a multi-purpose trail that
would be for horseback riding and possibly cross country skiing, actually
just turf because that's what we've corne up with so far.
JIll""
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 7
....."
Lori Sietsema: Did you have any other changes or anything?
Larry Schroers: Not really changes. I just had some thoughts. New
things that we're going to put into our parks, just for an example we've
talked about an archery range at the last meeting. Something like that
if we put that in a park such as Lake Ann or one of the major city parks
rather than a neighborhood park, we would tend to increase seasonal
ticket sales and even daily parking fees so we may want to make that a
consideration. Do we intend to put gate houses or have fees at any of
the other parks such as Lake Susan?
Lori Sietsema: I have no intention of bringing it up unless you want me
to. I would just as soon, my personal feeling is that I think the parks
should be free so I wouldn't recommend it.
Larry Schroers: So at any point in time that you can see down the road,
you're going to just have Lake Ann be the only park that there is a
charge for?
Lori Sietsema: Unless we can do away with that.
Ed Hasek: Has the Commission ever looked at that?
Lori Sietsema: We address the fees every year.
Jim Mady: We take in maybe $5,000.00 a year so it's not a major item i~
the budget.
Lori Sietsema: It generates about $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 and every
yea~ this Commission addresses whether they should raise the fees or not
and usually the Commission recommends that they be raised.
Larry Schroers: I guess I'm not opposed to the fees but keeping them at
a real moderate level or where they're at right now, I wouldn't have a
problem with that but increasing them I think would be a problem. I
guess my personal feeling is, I don't think there's a harm in charging a
fee for a large park such as Lake Ann and if Lake Susan would turn into
that sort of thing I wouldn't be opposed to charging a fee for using a
facility of that nature but if minor budgeting is a problem, that's just
one way of helping out. Maybe it's only $10,000.00 or $15,000.00 a year
but that $10,000.00 or $15,000.00 could pay for one more vehicle to help
maintain the areas.
Lori Sietsema: I understand the whole basis behind it. I guess I'm more
opposed to having a high fee than anything because it seemed to me when I
first came here it was $4.00 a day and I thought that was excessive.
Larry Schroers: Did you have to add tax too? Did you add the tax to the
fee or did you just absorb it?
'""""
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 8
""""
Lori Sietsema: I think we just absorbed it this year so far but I don't
know what we'll do next year.
Larry Schroers: Anyway, that's really all I had. I didn't have anything
else.
Carol Watson: I just had the stuff that you already mentioned. I wasn't
sure that that definition was accurate. It's accurate right now but if
we run into a problem we can change it. The other thing is, Mark
somewhere along the line can we get a list of definitions of the various
definitions that are involved in the park section or would you have to
pull those out of the definitions? That would be a real pain wouldn't
it?
Mark Koegler: You've brought up a new wrinkle because Comp Plans don't
normally have definition sections like Zoning Ordinances do. What do you
want to define?
Carol Watson: Just the various things. When we talk about fishing dock,
what do you mean? You're right, they don't. Where then are the
definitions that we use? What a fishing dock is and what constitutes a
natural parkland area and all these kind of things. All the various
terms we use. Where are the definitions?
,....
Mark Koegler: They never are. It's a matter of interpretation by this
group and passing that on to the Council. The only reason it can't be
done is just unorthadox to define in the context of the Comp Plan what a
fishing dock is. It might be more beneficial with this group,
independent of this, adopt a policy that with the parks we have now and
with the types of facilities, this is what I mean and this is what we're
going to provide to the public. A fishing dock means a dock with
appropriate code type side rails and so forth.
Carol Watson: That's what came to mind for me. What exactly do we mean?
When we say that, what are we actually providing and what can the
expectations be?
Mark Koegler: Most Commissions when faced with similar things like that,
don't like to define too many things because you can get yourself caught.
Right now you have fishing docks.
Carol Watson: Right, now we can do anything because we can change the
definition depending on...
Mark Koegler: So it can be a double edged sword but normally it's just
thorugh common usage that the definitions of those kind of things
develop.
Jim Mady: Lori, was there anything?
,....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 9
--'
Lori Sietsema: Just on the Lake Ann section, you took out the deal on
the shelter. I know that we have the shelter up by the ballfields but we
continue to apply for...
Mark Koegler: That's what I call the Ashworth Memorial Building. Don
conceived that LAWCON grant application what 4 years ago or so.
Lori Sietsema: Yes, we've applied for it at least four times. It
continues to rank just one or two below funding so we keep applying for
it but it's a community type shelter building that would have boat rental
down by the lake more and I'd like to see that remain in the Comp Plan.
Mark Koegler: I made a note on item 6 to write that back into it.
Lori Sietsema: Another thing that I had come up with this on R-24 it
talks about although the street and it's right-of-way are a form of
public open space, I was wondering if the wordage in there reflects the
Commission's dedication to off-street trails. They don't want to share
the road surface that's used for cars with pedestrian or bicycle or
recreation uses and I was just wondering if you wanted to make sure that
that is reflected throughout here. That your commitment to off street
trails is a priority.
Carol Watson: On the trail section that is directed...
Mark Koegler: Yes, I think some modification of this needs to be made.~
Lori Sietsema: The other ones were real piddely ones as far as acreage
and that kind of thing that you and I can go over.
Ed Hasek: I'd like to see this, even though we're not going to be
passing on this tonight but I've always thought for me, when I'm
reviewing something of this size I need to digest it and it takes 2 or 3
times through just to pick out little things and consistency.
Lori Sietsema: I would like to remind you that the first part of this
was in your last packet so if you've thrown away your last packet, you
probably don't have the first portion. What I was getting at is if
you've thrown it away, just let me know and I'll get you the first half
if you want to review that again.
Mark Koeg ler: The last i tern I'd 1 i ke to cover for just a moment, I want
to make sure I have your direction clear regarding the trail plan. You
recall a couple months ago we talked about phasing and budget and came
back and talked to you about two different levels of potential phase 1
trails. One was about 1.3 million and the other was about a million,
plus or minus. Those resulted in potential referendums of $899,000.00 to
$900,000.00 versus $500,000.00 to $600,000.00. The consensus of this
group that I got out of that meeting was let's go for the maximum and if
the Council determines that to be not reasonable then you have a fall
back position. Is that correct?
--'
,.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 10
Jim Mady: Yes, exactly.
Mark Koegler: I just picked up from the Council last night that there's
going to be a lot of sensitivity to cost in everything that's coming up.
Not just the trails so I just wanted to make sure that that was the
direction so that can be relayed onto the Council.
Jim Mady: One of the things I plan on bringing up later in the meeting
is the community center task force and where we're heading at the moment.
We appear to be heading, the Commission's viewpoint on community center
versus trail referendum because we're obviously going to have a limited
amount of dollars to spend.
Mark Koegler: I would just ask that between now and next time that you
continue to read through this a second or third time and note comments
and we'll discuss that as well as the trail.
UPDATE ON ITEMS OF INTEREST TO THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION.
Lori Sietsema: Number 3 is simply just for your information type memo.
We did award the bids to Plehal. The low bid was $43,765.00 which was
within $50.00 of Mark's estimate so that was very nice. The next closest
was at least $10,000.00 or $15,000.00 more than this bid and he came in
that morning and looked at the plans and specs right when they came in.
,....
Jim Mady: will they be able to get that in this year?
Lori Sietsema: Yes. I just wanted to mention too, I know that there was
some concern as to whether they knew what they were doing or not. If
they had done tennis courts before because they can be, I guess tennis
courts can be kind of tricky. Plehal did Flagship's tennis courts.
They've done a number of them for Eden Prairie. I believe they've done
some in Minnetonka. Tennis West is the company that actually does the
construction I believe, or is a part of them and that's all they do is
tennis courts so I'm pretty confident that they'll do a good job for us.
Carol Watson: They're local and very accessible if we don't like what
happens.
,...
Lori Sietsema: The next item was the special meeting date. We had
originally set the date for September 29th. City Council members were
not all able to make that meeting and asked that we switch it to
Wednesday, October 7th and I need to know if everybody here can make
that. In addition to this, I was wondering, something I was just going
to add onto this I guess because it's come up since I wrote this memo.
The City is going to cosponsor an event with community education, the
Chamber of Commerce called Community Connections. We felt there's a lot
of new people in the communi ty. A lot of people that have been in the
,:,ommunity for quite a while and they haven't a clue what is available to
chem. Where to find out about things as far as programming services
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 11
....",.
available from everything from the Chamber to County Health Services to
Park and Rec to Community Ed to Fire Department to Women of Today to
League of Women voters, Jaycees, Rotary, all kinds of services that are
available to citizens, the residents of Chanhassen. What we've decided
to do is have one night be like an open house night. Ask all of these
people to come in and set up a booth type thing. Have some major
presentations by the City, by the Chamber, by Community Ed to tell them
when their publications are coming out. Where to look for information.
Do people know that the South Shore weekly is the City's official paper?
When to pay close attention to the South Shore Weekly because we have
more news in it at some times of the year than others. The Chamber is
going to be promoting that they have the Chamber Post. That anybody can
put information in there. It's free. To get information in there unless
it's an advertisement and that's mailed to every home and that's a good
source of information. Also, it's going to be a deal where new people
can meet other new people and get to know people within the community.
We're hoping that a number of people will come and it will be a useful
tool for residents. It's going to be held on October 13th at Chanhassen
Elementary Library. That happens to be the date of our next Park and
Recreation Commission meeting and I'm wondering if we could all go to
that. Tell people about the Park and Recreation Department and what the
Park and Rec Commission does instead of having our regular meeting.
Sue Boyt: I think that sounds like a good idea. I have a suggestion for
this community connections. Maybe it's already in the plans but to hav
a local group of children who have a dance class at St. Hubert's, have -'
them come and perform and that will bring all of their families in or
have the soccer team come in and perform or karate class, whatever you
can get.
Carol Watson: Are we going to have kind of a booth that shows the city
parks and what's available?
Lori Sietsema: That's what I would like to see us do. I was hoping that
CAA would have a booth up there and try and promote some new members,
board members and that kind of thing. So if it's agreeable, I need a
motion to that effect that we have our regular meeting in that fashion
rather than the formal meeting.
Watson moved, Hasek seconded to hold the Park and Recreation Commission
meeting on October 13, 1987 at the Community Connection function rather
than meeting at City Hall. All voted in favor and motion carried.
Jim Mady: Do you anticipate that any other business will need to be
transacted?
Lori Sietsema: I know that the Herman Field access feasibility study
will be on and I know we'll be talking about the Comp Plan but both of
those thing s are not big rush items so we can put them on the last agenda
of the month. So we will be meeting on October 7th, 13th and then the
last week in October but this 13th won't be a formal meeting. -'
,.....
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 12
Carol Watson: And we'll have like a booth covering what our plans are?
Lori sietsema: Exactly and I may be calling some of you to maybe set up
a booth or come up with some ideas as to how we can make it look
attractive or whatever. Todd will be working on that too.
Ed Hasek: Do you have a slide projecter, city owned slide projecter?
Lori Sietsema: Yes.
Sue Boyt: That's something we often do is a little slide show.
Lori Sietsema: We have the kind that has the little picture too.
Carol Watson: Since the largest item people wanted was passive, just
open park space, should we get some pictures of the big oak grove above
Lake Ann Park?
Lori Sietsema: The next item I have on here is the Halloween Party. The
Halloween Party is going to be held on a Saturday this year, October
31st. The event will begin at 5:00. There are going to be a few changes
to the party. We're going to have Domino's Pizza instead of McDonalds
because it's free and we'll have a different entertainment besides
,..... cartoons. I think we're going to try and get a magic show or clowns or
something. I'm not real sure. What I need are bodies there to help man
the event. Running games, answering doors for the trick or treat doors
and handing out candies, group leaders, you name it. I'd like to get a
commitment from all of you tonight. What I really have to stress is, I
don't want you to tell me you are and then not show up because tha t means
I've got a door with your candy and nobody there to hand out the candy
and that's a real problem for me. Or I've got a game all set up and I've
got groups that are going to be playing this game and nobody to run the
game. I can't run the party that way. It's vi tal that you're there if
you tell me you're going to be there. If you're not going to be there,
fine. I can plan around it but I really need people and I really need
you to commit yourself if you're going to do it.
Jim Mady: I'll be there.
Sue Boyt: I'll be there in costume.
Lori Sietsema: Yes, it is in costume too.
Larry Schroers: I'm going to have a problem with that. Don't count on
me for that. I'm traditionally out of town that weekend.
Lori Sietsema: If for any reason you are in town, that week it gets
cancel~ed or something and you want to do it, just let me know at the
last mlnute because I can always use last minute bodies but I just won't
count on you then.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 13
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Carol Watson: Can I do it the same way? I don't think we're going up
north but I can't be absolutely sure that we wouldn't. I don't really
think so.
Lori Sietsema: with that I'd take any commissioner presentations.
Jim Mady: Did we need to talk at all about the special meeting? Do you
want to go over anything on that?
Lori Sietsema:
agenda in mind.
It's pretty much the same as I said last time with that
I don't really know anymore than I did before.
Ed Hasek: Is that just going to be held in discussion format?
Lori Sietsema: No, we'll pull these two tables together and pull chairs
around them.
Jim Mady: There was one thing I wanted to bring up. The Community
Center Task Force is meeting Thursday night this week and I'm not sure
exactly what we'll be discussing but I wanted to get each individual's
park commissioners thoughts on a community center versus, the way I look
at it, from what I heard earlier tonight in the discussion, I'm going at
we have a set amount of money there. It's not going to be a whole lot
and if we want to put a million dollars toward a trail plan, if say the
amount the City has for a bond issue is only 3 million dollars and the
Ci ty has some updated, they need to do some expand ing. I'm not sure if""'"
it's the Fire station or something of that nature. I think we need to
prioritize what the Commissioners feel is important to themselves. Where
they think we should be spending the money. Maybe it's not necessarily a
community center. I've got some thoughts of my own but I want to hear
what everybody else has because I think my position on the Task Force
really should be to represent this body more than just myself.
Larry Schroers: I guess my feeling on that would be if we had to go one
way or the other, it would seem more log ical to me to go wi th the trail
plan because that would better interact with the construction and the
development of the new park and the developments that are going on within
the city. If I had to pick one over the other, I would go with the trail
plan first and possibly look at the recreation center at some point in
time down the road. I think the trail plan may serve a broader portion
of the community. I think that maybe recreation center would just serve
more of a special interest type of thing.
Carol Watson: I have been around here long enough now to have made that
decision long time ago. We need a community center. We need it for
several reasons. For one thing it would be a nice facility for us to
have but it's also a draw to our downtown area. Putting the sewer in the
street is not going to make a downtown and I think that if we have a
reason for people to come to town and they come in here and there are
facilities, things they can do and then they'll begin to use the ~djacepJ
fac i 1 i ties. I think one is going to feed on the other. The tral1 ......,.,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 14
system will come. I really believe it will come but I think taking the
city's interest as a whole, a community center would contribute to the
downtown. To our ever someday having one as something that's really
viable where we don't have to go around looking for people to come,
they're coming to us.
Ed Hasek: I think the survey that we took of the community should state
what our position is because that's why we did it and that seems to
indicate to me that the city is vastly interested in the trail system.
That's really all I have to say about it.
Sue Boyt: That's where I'm coming from too. I think the survey is what
we need to start from and that indicates trails are our top priority for
Chanhassen community.
Jim Mady:
viewpoint.
viewpoint.
Good. That's kind of all I really wanted was just everybody's
I don't think I should go in there and just use my own
That's not necessarily why I'm there.
Larry Schroers: Well you've heard ours, now let's hear yours.
Jim Mady: In the beginning I was really very, very strong for a
community center. Right now, when I see the limited budget we've got to
go with and seeing the plans that Kodet has come up with, to put a
halfway decent community center is going to cost 4 to 6 million dollars
so I'm concerned about if we only 2 million dollars to spend towards the
thing, I'm not sure it's going to be the type of unit that we .need to do
the things it needs to do. I'm concerned about that so I'm not sure if
this is the year to do it. I think if we do it, we've got to do it
right. You can't just put a quansant hut and expect people to flock to
it because that's not going to happen so I'm kind of concerned in that
respect. When I'm talking to people I've talked to in the community, by
far, 99% of the time, if I even ask the question about parks, it's well
why don't we have our trails in yet or when is our trail going to come in
or where are we going to put trails. The questions are always trail
oriented and I guess that's where I'm leaning right at the moment.
That's why I wanted to get some more information. I think there are
things I've heard through the rumor mill about possibly going with having
a pr i va tely funded commun i ty center where the city just pays a fee to use
it. Things of that nature instead of us putting up the capital up front
to build one, it would be a private source fund. There are other ways of
doing it I think and I'm not so sure what types of facilities we would
put in. There are strong pushes for an indoor hockey facility. Possibly
two indoor hockey facilities. I'm concerned about that because the
reason they're using is all this ice time they're being able to rent out
with the present indoor facility we've got. Eden prairie is pushing to
get another ice arena in. Minnetonka is just opening one this year.
Those are both areas tha t are us i ng the presen t fac i 1 i ty we have here so
we're going to drop those so if we build a big free standing unit, I'm
concerned that the things would sit open a lot more than we can afford to
nave it sit open. It's not going to get the use. I'm concerned. Is
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 15
there any other commissioner have anything else they want to discuss?
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Ed Hasek: I had one I just hit by accident coming in here tonight.. I
noticed that the trail adjacent to the paved surface is in along Lake
Lucy Road now. I've riden that 3 or 4 times and the first time I noticed
that they had some areas painted with a diamond and labeled as trails.
No parking, whatever. However, it's not consistent down the whole thing.
That's a real nice feature. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
If it's going to be used, it should be more consistent. I don't know how
often that should be. If it should be the other side of each
intersection or a minimum of every 300 feet or something like that.
Jim Mady: It would be nice every 100 yards.
Ed Hasek: There should be some criteria set up so at least the people
who are putting it in know what they've got to do and it would be
consistent. It's not even marked coming off of Powers Blvd. here. It's
not marked on either side but then you get down about 3/4 of a mile or so
and all of a sudden it's marked regularly and then it disappears again
so...
Lori Sietsema: I think what might have happened and I'm not sure but
they were just finishing up that project and painting when the big storm
hit and they may not have gotten back to finish. I will drive it
tomorrow and ask Dale to take a look at it so that is done consistently
and done nicely. ~'
Larry Schroers: We did bring that up earlier at one of our other
meetings. That signage and painting should go in at the same time.
Carol Watson: So people know what it's intended for and what it's not.
Larry Schroers: And where the accesses are and where they're not. Then
they get used to following a route rather than cutting through someone's
private property.
Ed Hasek: Are the people that do that the same people who paint
crosswalks and things then too?
Lori Sietsema: The City crew? Yes. I don't know who did the Lake Lucy,
what's out there. I don't know if that was the contracter who did that.
I really can't tell you but I know that, I'm pretty sure that our city
crews could get out there and finish it if that's what needs to be done.
Jim Mady: One other comment I was going to make in mind with the
community center with the funding. I've been putting it together in my
mind some of the things we've discussed. Things we need to do maybe in
the next year or two and I'm seeing trying to prioritize some major
projects. Phase 1 of the trail to me is very important. I also see
getting Lake Ann graded which is $300,000.00 as being very, very
important. I see us getting 15 acres in the southern part of the City '~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
September 22, 1987 - Page 16
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very important. That might cost a few thousand dollars and I see us
getting 5 to 7 acres of land out on the west side of Minnewashta around
Lake St. Joe as being important. possibly important enough that we do it
now before developers start developing when we can get the land now for
$5,000.00 to $7,000.00 per acre instead of waiting until a development
comes in and say oh gee, we want to get that land now we're paying
$15,000.00 an acre to get it. I've gone through in my mind, I come up
with 2 million dollars worth of things I'd like to see us do in the next
two years that are to me very important and I plan on discussing it with
the City Council at our Council meeting. I think each park commissioner
should prioritize in their own mind things that they think are necessary
to the community so those can be hashed out with the Council and we kind
of get some consensus hopefully.
Lori Sietsema: I know that the Lake Ann project was another one of those
things that they were talking about giving people a choice along with the
community center, the trails. putting in the three new fields and the
soccer field.
Hasek moved, Watson seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:40 p.m..
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Submitted by Lori Sietsema
Park and Rec Coordinator
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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