1984 11 14
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PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 14, 1984
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
Members Present
Jim Thompson, Tom Merz, Susan Albee, Ladd Conrad, Bill Ryan,
Howard Noziska and Mike Thompson.
Members Absent
None
Staff Present
Barbara Dacy, City planner, Bill Monk, City Engineer and JoAnn
Olsen, Asst. City Planner.
Public Hearing: Piper Ridge Subdivision, Randy Herman,
Applicant, Wetland Alteration Permit Request, Subdivision Request
#84-8 Preliminary Plat Approval and Rezoning Request #84-5
Rezoning Property from R-la, Agricultural Residence to R-l,
Single Family Residence
Public Present
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Howard and Ruth Schmidt
Ralph and Kay Hegman
Randy Herman
Tom Fisher
Richard Rumple
T.L. Cook
Pete Throdahl
Tom Erdmann
2810 Sandpiper Trail
6361 Minnewashta Woods Drive
6035 Cathcart Drive
6349 Minnewashta Woods Drive
5217 Phelps, Mound
6351 Minnewashta Woods Drive
6345 Minnewashta Woods Drive
2750 Sandpiper Trail
Dacy explained that during the negotiations of the Herman Field
donation in 1978, an easement agreement was negotiated to provide
access to the 7 acre parcel that was retained by the Herman's for
eventual building sites. She stated that the 1990 Land Use Plan
incorrectly identified the 7 acre tract as parks/Open Space and
excluded it from the Urban Service Area. She stated that the
site can be serviced by municipal water and sewer service and the
proposed land use, zoning and development density is compatible
in scale, density and character with the adjacent properties.
She stated that the subdivision design meets the lot area and lot
width requirements of the Shoreland Management Regulations and the
City Subdivision Ordinance. She stated that the alteration of
the wetland will not adversely affect the ecology and hydrology
of the wetland based on the proposed drainage plan which allows
for the restoration of the wetland vegetation and adequately
accommodating stormwater runoff.
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Monk stated that the alteration of a wetland is generally a dif-
ficult proposal and in this case is only economically feasible
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 2
due to the shallow depth of the existing peat area within the
wetland. He stated that this shallow depth will allow for the
lowering of the wetlands using a grading operation where the peat
is removed for excavation of the clay and then replaced in the
newly formed basin. He stated that the existing drainage pat-
terns throughout the neighborhood will be maintained, including
the runoff from the subdivision and existing homes and streets.
He stated that this runoff is directed initially to the rede-
signed wetland area and then outlets through a double pipe weir
structure to the large wetland along the southern border of the
property.
Jim Parker: I am with Advanced Surveying. I prepared the plan.
I would like to say that we tried to site homes on the property
and yet be sensitive to the topography and the vegetation that is
there trying to minimize the amount of grading and fit the land
the best we could. I think that what we have is something that
will turn out to be a good looking subdivision in terms of not
skimming the property and grades that match the existing ground.
If there are any specific questions about the drainage or other
aspects, I would be happy to answer them.
Tom Erdmann: I live approximately across the street from the
subdivision. I really am concerned about the drainage. I would
like to know what plans they have. I would like to know how and
where you are, where the water comes from that drains across that
land down to Minnnewashta. There is alot of water that goes
through there at various times of the year.
(Note: The following discussion of this case included reference
to a display of the plat which highlighted the wetland area.)
Jim Parker: Essentially the plan is this and no matter if the
pipe that comes in there drains or trickles. It is a 24 inch
pipe and therefore the amount of water that it can bring into the
area is limited by the fact that the 24 inch pipe can carry just
so much water. We have a 24 inch pipe going out of the area.
That pipe dumps out here across the low area and there is not
alot of depth to any water that stands there.
Tom Erdman: Are you talking about the concrete spillway that
runs down Sandpiper Trail.
Jim Parker: Exactly. What ever water comes there now runs
through that area and then down into the marsh. That is still
what is going to do except that we provided some storage area so
that during a bad storm, there will be less water after the pro-
ject is developed going down into the marsh.
Tom Erdman: Where are you thinking the water is coming from?
Can you explain that?
Jim Parker: There is a certain area that is a tributary to this.
What I am saying is that it is going to keep doing what it is
doing except that we are providing some storage area and the
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 3
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storage area was calculated so that any increased runoff from
building houses, streets, etc. will take place here. Any
increased runoff as a result of development is going to be stored
during a hundred year storm, the worst storm that is likely to
come along. Right after the project is developed, less water
will run down to the marsh during that storm than it would now.
No matter what runs down there now, less is going to run down
after the project is complete because storage has been provided.
Ralph Hegman: Does that mean then, when you rework that marsh,
what does that mean entirely? Are you going to destroy the marsh
that is there?
Jim Parker: You would have to do that to enlarge it.
Ralph Hegman: The idea is, the existing marsh will not be there,
in other words, it will just be like a little lake. There won't
be any cattails as there are now.
Jim Parker: The plan is to provide
tom level of the marsh so that over
drain just like it does now. There
in the marsh except like it is now.
We are lowering it.
a low level pipe at the bot-
a period of time it will
won't be any standing water
We are not proposing a pond.
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Ralph Hegman: In other words the road is going to go right over
that marsh.
Jim Parker: That's right.
Ralph Hegmen: Well I think that's wrong.
Mrs. Fisher: We are the last house that the subdivision will
come to behind us. Everything behind us is high and if it is not
done right it is going wash along the woods down into my family
room and through my large door. I do not have a back yard, it
goes straight up. (Mrs. Fisher showed Mr. Parker the location of
her house in relation to the plat. Mr. Parker advised here that
the drainage from the plat will not affect her property.)
Pete Throdahl: The average size of the lots is 21,000 feet, what
is the range of the lots?
Jim Parker: They range from 15,000 to 27,000.
Pete Throdahl: What do you anticipate selling the lots for?
Randy Herman: We haven't put a set price on at this time.
Anywhere from $25,000 on up.
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Pete Throdahl: Are you going to be building in there or are
other people?
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 4
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Randy Herman: We will be doing some building. Some of the
building will be done by the people who choose to have their own
builder.
Pete Throdahl: What price range of house do you anticipate in
being in there?
Randy Herman: Again, there is no set range but would estimate
between $125,000 on up. I think there is potential on some of
the southern lots for somebody to justify a house that my sell
for mid $200,000.
Pete Throdahl: Are you proposing any minimum square footage in
terms of the house?
Randy Herman: We have a fairly diverse set of lots. We've got
some as you come into the entrance just to the west that are
going to be on the. minimum size, 15,000 square feet. We've got
some on the southern side that are going to be very good size
with an exposure of Lake Minnewashta. There is a pretty big
range in there for sizes of homes, values of homes, a great
degree that ought to be up to the person who wants to buy the lot
what they want to put in.
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Jim Parker: Alot of times the price of a lot is going to dictate
to an extent what range a home is going to be built.
Pete Throdahl: I would like to see some minimum square footage
for the house so we do get the type of house that is going to add
to the property.
Randy Herman: There is contemplation, although we haven't come
up with a set set of covenants and restrictions at this time
because we are still somewhat on square one. From a marketing
standpoint, we don't want junk built on some lots.
Pete Throdahl: In terms of a project like this, is it a planned
development?
Dacy: This is not a PUD, it's only twelve lots. The City's
ordinance requiring a planned Unit Development is 24 lots.
Noziska moved, seconded by Ryan to close the public hearing. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Merz: Presently we have a ground water table one foot below the
surface. The existing elevation is 954 and you're going to make
the bottom of that pond 948. If the water table is that high you
will never have any absorption. The absorption of that existing
pond is the only way you will get rid of the water. The pond
will act as nothing but storage so when you say you are adding
capacity, in essence, your're not adding capacity. Any water
that comes into this site will have to go out the storm sewer
and what we will have there is a pond forever.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 5
Jim Parker: There is an outlet pipe at the bottom at 948 which
will be draining at the pond at all times. So it will remain
dry. The only time the pond will have water in it is when there
is such a hard rainfall that there is only so much the capacity
of that 12 inch pipe can carry water. When it does, the water
will rise in the pond. That would only be during a really heavy
storm. If the 12 inch pipe can not handle it, the 24 inch pipe
is mounted right above the 12 inch pipe and will begin to handle
the runoff. That pipe is sized big enough to handle anything
that is coming through the 24 inch pipe plus anything running off
the project.
Merz: In essence we have eliminated the wetland effect. There
is no storage, anything that comes in goes into the pond and will
go through the pipes.
Jim Parker: Anything that runs in a really bad storm right now,
runs right over that area. The only reason any water stands
there is because there are bumps and so on, so you get a little
bit of standing water in there. But there is very little
storage.
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Merz: All the cattails act as filteration and we have eliminated
that.
Jim Parker: They will continue to act in the same way because
the bottom will be covered with cattails and it will be dry all
the time except during a heavy rain.
Merz: All of the water that presently comes in is going to come
through that street and drain into this pond and immediately in
the catch basin. In essence, there is no filteration system as
we had before.
Jim Parker: There will be the same filteration as there was
before. The bottom of the thing won't be completely flat it will
be like it is now. The only thing that has changed is that in
the event of a real gully washer of a rain the water will not be
able to run right through the area like it is now but rather will
be restricted to a 12 inch pipe until it gets to a certain height
and then it will start flowing through the 24 inch pipe.
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Merz: That can't be. You can't take half the capacity of the
pond and say that you are doing the same thing. You are con-
centrating all this water in 1/3 of the area but you are having
no filtration as opposed to what these cattails are presently
doing. How can you take this type of a room and concentrate
that down into a . . . what do we have is a 30, 40 or 50 foot wide
catch basin and say we are doing the same thing if we are talking
about filteration and soils as opposed to the swamp.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 6
Monk: There are really three existing drainage portions of the
project that we were concerned about. One we have got an
overflow and a pond to the north that flows in the northwest
corner of the property. Another is the existing flow that occurs
from homes up in this area. Naturally it flows down to a low
point in Sandpiper and now flows down to this wetland. The
third is the existing drainage comes off the site and comes down
into this area. What you have here is a wetland that ponds, it
ponds anywhere from 1 and 2 feet at most before it overflows and
it is very difficult to get a line on exactly what its elevation
is and there are some broken tile that don't seem to be func-
tioning very well anymore. What is being proposed at this point,
is to basically, and these terms are correct to obliterate
this portion of the wetlands, not shown in orange, and actually
construct a road. What is proposed in this area is to, and this
has been done a number of times before in other cities and once
in Chanhassen Business Park, basically this area would be
skimmed. What you have got right here, right now, is a perched
water table one foot below the surface. Basically it is perched
in there and you can tell because this elevation is so much
lower. You take this area surrounded by orange, you strip that
down and take the top 2 to 3 feet, which the soil borings say is
the peat. You take that off and basically take out the clay
layer. When you take out that clay layer you put back in the
peat. within, it can take anywhere from 12 to 15 months, you
will get growth very similar to what is in there now. We are
talking about a very special process. Once that is done and the
pipes are put in, what we will be doing is lowering that perched
water table. The water table will be drained down in this area.
The new water table will be down at about 948 level. What you
will have in place of this big wetlands will be the smaller
deeper wetlands that will function as basically 1) wetlands and
2) a holding basin. What is proposed and this gets into some
detail that we usually don't get into in a preliminary plat is a
12 inch pipe on the bottom and a 24 inch stacked on top. The 12
inch is to basically take the flow from the adjacent residential
areas and allow it to flow through, and the 24 inch pipe is to
make sure that this big pipe as it comes through can be handled
and go out. What we will end up doing in here, I am sure before
it is done, is constructing a weir structure, some type of a box
with an outlet structure, at the wetland outlet, to allow some type
of buildup and allow some sedimentation to occur. Again what you
are doing is offsetting area for volume and in the end you are
reducing the nutrient stripping capacity of this area, but you
are increasing the volume and still getting some of that sedimen-
tation and nutrient stripping before it actually goes out. This
entails some major revisions to the existing system.
Merz: Could you get that sedimentation settling without the
vegetation, you won't have vegetation in the holding pond.
Unless you lower the water table and it is clay all the way down.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 7
Monk: Basically that is what we will be doing by putting the 12
inch pipe down at that lower level, basically you will be taking
that perched water table out of there, you will actually be
reducing the ground water elevation in that particular area down
to about 948.
Merz: So everything will drain through with no sedimentation.
Monk: That is why you want to make sure that it comes back up in
this wetlands and that's why you put the weir structure in here
so the water is forced to build up before it will spill out.
After the water builds up it will deposit the sediment in there
and then spill out over the top of that weir and that's why you
would not allow just open pipe because then the water is just
going right through. That is just a little more detail on the
design of this. There are further final design that would need
to be done with the City and the Watershed District, but that is
the concept.
Merz: Do you feel the sedimentation you get in that pond without
the vegetation is equal to what you are getting now? That is
what you are saying.
Monk: Our design is that there would be vegetation very much
similar to what is there now and basically recreating what is
there now at a lower elevation. There would be, I believe, as
much sedimentation with this proposal but perhaps there would be
a reduction nutrient stripping.
Ryan: Have you evaluated the nutrient stripping capacity of that
wetland now in terms of what will happen when you fill it?
Monk: I tried to do some calculations. The wetlands is supposed
to be designed to hold a 6 inch rain, 24 hour event and what it
comes down to is you really can't return that in the existing
wetlands because it is so open it doesn't have anything to get
calculated as far as holding capacity. The only conclusion you
can come down to is that the nutrient stripping will be reduced
because the area is reduced. Whether there would be a 50% reduc-
tion in that function is hard to say and I don't know any way to
calculate it given the existing layout of that wetland.
Ryan: You know what the ordinance says. Will you make a state-
ment that reduction in nutrient stripping is not detrimental to
wildlife?
Monk: I guess what I am saying is that I believe that in everyway
possible the proposal before the Planning Commission at this
point meets the ordinance requirements. I cannot say that it
will not have some impact on the downstream because there is no
question that the nutrient stripping would in deed be reduced
some but sedimentation would be at least the same if not
increased.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 8
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Ryan: I think the point comes down to nutrient stripping,
perhaps in many of our wetlands in Chanhassen have far more
nutrient stripping capabilities then are called on to do and we
can reduce the size without effecting the actual stripping capa-
bility. But that is a conclusion that has to be made.
Monk: It does flow into another wetlands area which in itself
does have nutrient stripping capacities and to try and come to
grips with how much of a reduction would be allowed in this one
without being detrimental to the lower one is a question that I
can not give you a calculation.
Albee: The road going over that area how is that designed so
that doesn't create a weak area in a pocket of the wetland.
Monk: We don't usually require soil borings as a requirement
but in this case we did. We got two soil borings along the
roadbed that showed again that the peat area two to three feet in
depth and showed that there was a clay area underneath so basi-
cally you would have to take out that peat area and get down to
the clay, stablize the area. Had the peat area come back at
something like ten feet deep, we would be much more concerned
that we would not be able to stablize it without major measures
and thats what does make this particular layout economically
feasible.
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J. Thompson: How deep is the clay area?
when you remove the clay and get down to
wherever that is, and you could actually
get more percolation through the. . .
Is it possible that
the regular soil,
get more stripping or
Monk: I think in Chanhassen it is highly unlikely that we will
see that everywhere. We can't seem to get away from that. I
don't think that in this area with this type of a perched water
situation that you are going to get a tremendous amount of down-
ward movement of the water and that the best thing you could hope
for in this situation is to get sedimentation and nutrient
stripping as the water moves across. Some downward motion will
occur, it always does, but we are not counting on a tremendous
amount. Soil borings have been taken down 20 feet to see whether
they ever get through the clay, but I don't think they will.
J. Thompson: If the clay is to thick would it be possible to put
some type of trench drain in there.
Monk: The problem is that the clay goes out in all directions
and we may be able to take it down somewhere its got to start to
get out towards the lake the way its going to gravitate. Again I
think above ground is . . .
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J. Thompson: I'm not saying eliminate it.
Monk: It is something to look at but I think it is highly
unlikely.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 9
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Merz: The borings indicate that there is 12 feet of dirt.
M. Thompson: Is there any way this could be designed differently
that it would make more sense to resolve some of the problems.
Monk: The only modification that jumps out at you will be the
moving of the north/south section of the roadway to the west and
eliminating Lot 12.
Conrad: We could move it one way and the developer loses alot.
The question is if the developer can prove the water quality with
that ponding as an improvement to the situation.
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Monk: Having looked at that possibility, there is no question
that the existing wetlands would still need to be modified. The
existing wetlands as it stands right now is too close to the
street elevation to give any type of storage capacity that is
necessary for the flow that come through that area. So whether
it is redesigned or not the wetlands would have to be modified, would
have to be deepened. The same type of concept would have to be
arrived at and basically you would be looking at leaving the
wetlands perhaps closer to its existing size and you have got to
come to grips with whether that trade off or the lot trade off
what's reasonable as far as development goes. Sure it is easy to
say that leaving the wetland as big as possible is most benefi-
cial. Again, is it most reasonable. It is an option. The
wetland at 954 would not suffice. You would still have to take
the wetland down to 950 to get it to work and your still talking
about a major modification. The pond as it is proposed right now
will be storage capacity.
M. Thompson: If they eliminated Lot 12, would they be somewhat
the same size. Has the developer considered that?
Randy Herman: Is that true though, I'm not sure but if we moved
the road over we are still talking about 33 to 35% reduction in
that wetland.
Jim Parker: We might be talking about 15% difference.
M. Thomspon: You mean we don't pick up that much by Lot l2?
Merz: Could Lot 12 in essence become that other stripping area
you were talking about?
Jim Parker: Well it is a hill right now.
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Monk: This is the first subdivision, I believe that has involved
the Wetlands Ordinance since we have approved it. Most of the
other instances, it has been quite easy to protect a wetland,
like Fox Hollow, because it was a Class A wetland with other
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 10
ponding available. This particular case we have run into a free
standing Class B wetland. We are stretching the ordinance by
saying that this Class B should be used for storm ponding but in
this particular case alot of the other property is in slope and
does not lend itself in any way, shape or form to any other type
of layout. We are should look at this in terms of trying to
achieve certain things as far as keeping some sediments of the
wetland that has some stripping capacity but yet has some storage
capacity. Again it being a Class B it, in this case, a free
standing wetland, it has a more difficult design and almost has
to be used to allow any type of reasonable use on the property.
M. Thompson: How big is the wetland area?
Monk: The wetland area as I have calculated it is about 1/3 of
an acre.
Albee moved, seconded by Ryan to approve the proposal. J.
Thompson, Albee, Ryan, Noziska and M. Thompson voted in favor.
Merz and Conrad opposed. The motion carried.
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Merz stated that he is opposed to this because it would be
reducing the wetland by 50%. He felt that a precedent is being
set because this is the first case requiring a wetland altera-
tion permit.
Conrad agreed with Merz and also felt that the intent of the
ordinance was to prevent zero degradation of the wetland and felt
that the road should be moved.
Public Hearing: preliminary Plat Approval of Maple Ridge
subdivision #84-6 Subdivision located at 7251 Minnewashta
parkway, Duane Barth, applicant.
Public Present
Ann Osborne
James Borchard
3815 Red Cedar Point
5580 Co. Rd. 19, Excelsior
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Dacy explained that the applicant is requesting preliminary plat
approval for a 13 lot single family residential subdivision.
She stated that the proposed lot sizes meet the lot area and lot
width requirements of the Shoreland Management Regulations. She
stated that the average lot size is 17,405 square feet and the
proposed density is 2.5 units per acre which is consistent with
the development density recommended in the Comprehensive Plan.
She stated that Outlots A and B along the northern boundary of
the plat will be conveyed to the property owners to the north in
an attempt to to rectify legal description inconsistencies. She
stated that the applicant has indicated a "walk easement" which
matches the location of the drainage and utility easement along
the southern boundary of the plat. She stated that it is
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 11
~ intended as a private walkway for the sole use of the Homeowners
Association and she added that the developer should be aware that
a private walkway cannot be shown on the final plat and must be
described in a separate document, according to state law. She
stated that the City Engineer determined that the proposed
street, utility and drainage design was acceptable but has recom-
mended some minor adjustments in the utility and drainage plan.
She also stated that the applicant is proposing an identification
sign to be located in the center of the proposed and that the
ordinance requires the sign not to exceed 24 square feet in area.
Ann Osborne questioned if there would be a common beachlot and if
not now, in the future?
Dacy stated that no beachlots are being proposed in the subject
plat, but the property owners have a right to propose one in the
future through a conditional use permit process.
Ann Osborne also stated that her present water pressure was low
and wondered if the new subdivision would make the situation
worse.
Monk stated that an extension of the proposed watermain will be
required to loop into the existing main near Mrs. Osborne's resi-
dence. He stated that this would help increase the pressure and
4It that it is the most that can be done.
Jim Bochard stated that he thought the lots were very small for
the area and is afraid that if building setback variances are
approved, the lots will get even smaller.
Dacy replied that the smallest lot is 15,125 square feet and the
largest lot is 26,000 square feet. She stated that the lot areas
meet the ordinance requirements and adequate building areas
exist.
Noziska moved, seconded by Ryan to close the public hearing. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, to recommend approval of
Maple Ridge Subdivision #84-6 with the following conditions:
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1. The subdivision identification sign must not exceed 24 square
feet in area.
2. The proposed watermain to be located in the proposed street
must be extended between Lots 5 and 6 to loop the system with
the existing line in the northeast corner of Lot 6.
3. The ponds in Lots 11 and 12 must be consolidated and the sani-
tary lateral located between Lots 11 and 12 be moved between
Lots 10 and 11.
4. A ditch must be constructed over all storm pipes.
5. Permit approvals from the Watershed District and other affected
agencies must be obtained.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 12
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Public Hearing: Conditional Use Permit Request #84-19 for
Contractor's Yard Activities on Property Zoned R-la, Agricultural
Residence District and located at 4141 Kings Road, Carlson
Excavating, Applicant
Public Present
Mr. Carlson
David Trumble
Doris Brickley
4141 Kings Road
4151 Kings Road
4380 Parklawn, Minneapolis
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Dacy explained that the applicant is applying for conditional use
permit approval for the continuation of contractor's yard activi-
ties on the premises. She stated that the applicant has 5
vehicles, retains one employee, and the hours of operation are
8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. but may vary. She stated that the appli-
cant does not have adequate existing structures on site to house
the vehicles. She recommended the applicant construct an
accessory building or confine one area of the site as an outdoor
storage area and provide substantial screening on all sides of
the storage area. She recommended a completion date of september
1, 1985. She stated that this would reduce the visual impact of
the contractor's yard on the neighborhood. She stated that the
yard is littered with piles of debris, old machinery, unlicensed
vehicles and other waste material which detracts from the
appearance of the property. She stated that the applicant should
remove all waste materials by June 1, 1985.
Carlson stated that when he first requested to build an accessory
building, he was denied by the City Council and now staff is
requesting him to build. He stated that it would be too costly
to build today and years ago he could have afforded it. He also
mentioned that it is hard to keep the contractor's yard clean but
felt he could do a better job and would start doing so. He also
asked if everyone had to go through this process.
Dacy stated that everyone has to apply for a conditional use per-
mit for a contractor's yard and that several operations have been
contacted. She also stated that the applicant had two options,
either build a building or screen one area of the yard.
Robert Wilson questioned if this conditional use permit would be
reviewed annually or if it would be granted and never checked on.
Dacy stated that the applicant must meet the conditions of the
permit, and in this case, the recommended deadlines.
Carlson asked about what would happen if he did not meet the
deadline.
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Dacy replied that the City can issue citations and begin court
action to force compliance.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 13
Carlson asked if there is a limited number of vehicles he is
allowed to have.
Dacy stated that if there is significant intensification, it will
prompt another review and he would have to apply for another con-
ditional use permit.
Doris Bickley stated that Carlson could not build a big enough
building to screen or cover all of his vehicles. She stated that
the dirt road was very dusty with vehicles going up and down it
and said that this yard was an eye sore and something should be
done about it.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Albee to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Albee stated that the visual impact of this property was horren-
dous and stated that asking the applicant to remove the debris
and vehicles by June 1, 1985 was very generous.
Merz asked if there would be a way to store the vehicles farther
behind the property line rather than having them right out in
front.
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Carlson stated that the property in back slopes and is to steep
to do that. He stated that there are ten vehicles on his prop-
erty and if he built a building the majority of vehicles could be
stored in it, however he stated that he was denied the request to
build such a building several years ago.
Conrad stated that he preferred the applicant to construct a
building rather than just screening because it could take years
before screening would cover the sight of the vehicles.
Dacy stated that a combination of fencing and plantings could be
accomplished.
Noziska asked Mr. Carlson if he could meet the September deadline
of cleaning the debris.
Carlson stated that he could. He asked if he wanted to construct
a building would the Council permit him to do so.
Dacy stated that constructing a building is being recommended.
Conrad stated that he would like staff and Mr. Carlson to work
together on this. He would like to see a solution that would be
good for Mr. Carlson, staff and the neighborhood.
e
Noziska moved, seconded by J. Thompson to table this request
until more definitive information can be received. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 14
Public Hearing: Conditional Use Permit Request #84-17 To Allow
Contractor's Yard Activities on property Zoned R-la, Agricultural
Residence District and located at 710 and 720 West 96th street,
Ronald Landin, applicant.
Public Present
Ronald Landin
720 West 96th street
Dacy explained that the applicant is applying for conditional use
permit approval for the continuation of contractor's yard activi-
ties. She stated that the operation consists of six vehicles and
two cement mixers and that no activity is conductedon the premi-
ses. She stated that four of the vehicles and the cement mixers
were stored outside and that they are fairly well screened from
the north. However, she recommended that the applicant either
store the vehicles inside the accessory buildings or fence the
outside storage area in a manner that would screen vehicles from
adjacent properties. She stated that the contractor's yard does
not appear to have an adverse impact on surrounding properties
and that traffic generated from the site is limited to one
vehicle per day driven by Mr. Landin. She added that the appli-
cant also submitted a list of the surrounding property owners who
have no objections to his continuing his business "providing that
the current operating conditions remain the same". She also
noted that a variance was granted for a pole barn at 710 W. 96th
street and a condition was placed on the variance prohibiting the
use of the pole barn for storage of equipment used in the
contractor's yard activities. She stated that the intent of the
condition was that the Board did not want to grant approval for a
pole barn for contractor's yard activities until the request had
been formally considered by the Planning Commission and City
Council.
Landin stated that he would like to store all of his equipment in
the pole barn.
Noziska moved, seconded by Albee to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Albee moved, seconded by Ryan to recommend approval of
Conditional Use Permit Request #84-17 for Contractor's Yard
Activities at 710 and 720 West 96th street with the following
conditions:
1. Expansion of the existing operation beyond what has been
represented in this application must be approved by a con-
ditional use permit.
2. All vehicles must be stored within a building or the outdoor
vehicle storage area must be screened on all sides with ade-
quate fencing at least six feet in height.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
page 15
J. Thompson, Merz, Albee, Conrad, Ryan and Noziska voted in
favor. M. Thompson opposed. Motion carried.
M. Thompson stated that he felt the ordinance does not provide
any criteria in which to make the decision. Because it is non-
specific he is not in a position to establish criteria in which
to render a decision on the conditional use.
Public Hearing: Conditional Use Permit #84-18 to Allow
Contractor's Yard Activity on property Zoned R-la, Agricultural
Residence District located at 1180 pioneer Trail, Buck's
Excavating, applicant.
Public Present
Buck and Diane Buech
1180 pioneer Trail
Dacy explained that the applicant is applying for conditional use
permit approval for the continuation of contractor's yard activi-
ties. She stated that the applicant's operation consists of
eight vehicles and that no business is conducted on the premises.
She stated that the applicant has installed six ten foot tall
evergreens along the front property line adjacent to pioneer
Trail and intends to complete the screening of the entire street
frontage in the near future. She stated that there are no other
employees retained by the applicant and the intensity of the yard
does not appear to be having an adverse impact on adjacent prop-
erties as it is bounded on two sides by the golf course and is
several hundred feet from existing single family residences. She
also noted that the applicant intends to build onto the existing
storage building on the west side of the site and with the other
building on the east, just in front of the applicant's house, all
of the vehicles could be stored inside at all times.
Noziska moved, seconded by Ryan to close the public hearing. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson, to recommend approval of
Conditional Use Permit #84-18 for Contractor's Yard Activities at
1180 pioneer Trail subject to the following conditions:
1. Expansion of the existing operation beyond what has been
represented in this application must be approved by a con-
ditional use permit.
2. All equipment must be stored within a building or the outside
vehicle storage area must be screened on all sides with ade-
quate fencing of at least six feet in height.
J. Thompson, Merz, Albee, Conrad, Ryan and Noziska voted in
favor. M. Thompson opposed. Motion carried.
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Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 1984
Page 16
M. Thompson stated that he felt that ordinance does not provide
any criteria on which to make a decision. Because it is non-
specific, he is not in a position to render a decision on the
conditional use.
Approval of Minutes
Albee moved, seconded by
1984 minutes as written.
and M. Thompson voted in
carried.
J. Thompson to approval the October 24,
J. Thompson, Merz, Albee, Conrad, Ryan
favor. Noziska abstained. Motion
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.