1984 12 12
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PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 12, 1984
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:33 p.m.
Members Present
Jim Thompson, Tom Merz, Susan Albee, Ladd Conrad, Bill Ryan,
Howard Noziska and Mike Thompson.
Members Absent
None
Staff Present
Barbara Dacy, City Planner, Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner and
Vicki Churchill, Secretary.
Public Hearing: Subdivision Request #84-25 for a Metes and
Bounds subdivision of a 5 acre tract into two parcels on property
zoned R-la, Agricultural Residence, and located at 9201 Great
Plains Blvd., Kevin and Valette Finger, applicant.
Public Present
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Kevin & Valette Finger
Al Klingelhutz
Marge Bush
Todd Alcott
Karen Davis
Ronald Payne
6231 wentworth, Richfield, MN
8601 Great Plains Blvd.
Rt. 5, Box 72, New Prague, MN
1161 Bluff Creek Drive
7602 Kiowa Ave.
7612 Kiowa Ave.
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Dacy explained that the applicant is proposing to subdivide a
4.996 acre parcel into two parcels totaling 2.498 acres. She
stated that the proposed subdivision requires 5 variances; a lot
area, a lot width, lot depth, side yard setback, and a variance
to the individual sewage treatment system ordinance. She stated
that the site is located out of the Urban Service Area; however,
one could not say that water and sewer service would never be
available to this property and that the property would never be
resubdivided. She explained that the intent of the ordinance
requirements in the rural areas are to provide for the possible
resudivision of property and to provide for the possible
installation of sewer and water facilities. She stated that the
lot area variance does not pose any problems because of the small
difference of area, however the remaining variances are to the
standards that have been set to regulate development in the rural
areas and that staff is concerned that a precedent may be set by
allowing several variances to standards of rural residential sub-
division. She also added that the City Engineer has raised con-
cern regarding the necessity for fill and grading before
installation of a sewage treatment system and as stated earlier
that a variance to Ordinance lOA is necessary.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 2
Kevin Finger stated that he and his parents have been looking in
the Chanhassen/Eden prairie area for 2! years for a site to build
a house for his parents, who are from out of state wishing to
move here, and a house for himself. He stated that Paul Waldron,
the Soil Inspector, stated that this situation where fill is
added is best because then one knows how much dirt there is for
the system. He stated that they have no plans of ever resub-
dividing. . .
B. Ryan moved, seconded by M. Thompson to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
J. Thompson stated that he has concerns with the septic system.
Merz asked if fill would be over the whole building area.
Dacy stated that just over the building pad and septic system
ar ea .
Albee felt that they should not alter the ordinances and that
there are other areas in Chanhassen where the soil is adequate
for septic systems.
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Ryan felt that there were too many variances to recommend for
approval.
M. Thompson asked how important the lot width variance is.
Dacy stated that this is to allow for future resubdivision of
property when water and sewer service becomes available.
M. Thompsqn asked if there would be any other way this could be
subdivided to lessen the variances.
Dacy stated that if the parcel was divided in the other direc-
tion, it would create a landlocked parcel. She added that the
applicant could apply for a variance to allow two residential
dwellings on one parcel, however, additional soil percolation
tests would be required for a different house/septic location.
Noziska moved, seconded by M. Thompson to table this item until a
revised plan and more soil tests could be made available. J.
Thompson, Merz, Conrad, Noziska and M. Thompson voted in favor.
Albee and Ryan opposed. Motion carried.
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Albee and Ryan felt that there were too many variances, that the
ordinances should not be altered and that the site was inadequate
for a septic system.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
Page 3
Public Hearing: zoning Ordinance Amendment Request #84-6 to
allow Bed and Breakfast Inns as permitted uses in the R-la,
Agricultural Residence District, Marjorie Bush, applicant
Public Present
Marge Bush
Todd Alcott
Karen Davis
Ronald payne
Al Klingelhutz
Rt. 5, Box 72, New Prague, MN
1161 Bluff Creek Drive
7602 Kiowa Ave.
7612 Kiowa Ave.
8601 Great Plains Blvd.
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Olsen explained that the applicant is proposing a Bed and
Breakfast establishment in a home located at 1161 Bluff Creek
Drive. She stated that this type of use is not provided for in
the ordinance. She stated that the property is surrounded by
agricultural uses and no other single family residences are
nearby. She added that the property has been inspected by the
State Fire Marshal, the Chanhassen Public Safety Director and
Building Inspector and it was found that it met Fire and Uniform
Building Code requirements with a need for only a few minor
adjustments. She stated that upon researching regulations
throughout the united States, the most common requirements were:
1. Three (3) to five (5) rental rooms allowed within the bed and
breakfast establishments.
2. Two (2) persons per rental room.
3. The bed and breakfast must be owner occupied.
4. Two (2) offstreet parking space plus one (1) additional space per
room to be rented.
5. Meals shall be served only to residents and overnight guests.
6. The bed and breakfast must be within the principle structure.
7. There shall be no more than one (1) employee.
8. All building and fire code requirements for the level of occupancy
shall be met.
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She sta~ed that because of the size of lots and distance between
residences in the R-la District, staff believes the establishment
of a Bed and Breakfast Inn in this district would have no adverse
impact on the surrounding properties because it will be limited
to 5 rooms or less. She noted that the use is such that it is
merely a location for overnight lodging and comparable to a
single family residence and should be allowed as a permitted use
in the R-la districts. She stated that these establishments may
also occur in the R-l districts and might have a greater impact
on surrounding properties and staff recommends bed and breakfast
establishments be allowed as conditional uses in the R-l
districts so each case can be considered separately.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 4
Marjorie Bush stated that she felt staff has done a very thorough
job of researching bed and breakfast inns and just wanted to add
that this is a very special home in Chanhassen. She wants to
keep historical part of intact and wanted to assure the Commission
that this is not an extreme commer,cial venture and that she would
show consideration to neighbors.
Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
M. Thompson asked why we were looking at amending the ordinance.
Dacy stated that this type of an establishment it is not a per-
mitted or a conditional use in any district. She stated that the
applicant's request to locate one at 1161 Bluff Creek Drive
triggered the amendment request.
M. Thompson wondered if there has been enough thought put into
amending the ordinance to allow for this type of use possibly in
other zoning districts.
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Dacy stated that staff did not consider the commercial districts
because Bed and Breakfasts are usually associated with residen-
tial areas. She stated that staff will investigate the applica-
bility of the use in other districts.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Merz to recommend approval of
zoning Ordinance Amendment #84-6 to amend the zoning Ordinance as
follows:
1. Section 6.02, Permitted Uses in the R-la District, should be
amended to read:
4. Bed and Breakfast Establishments subject to the following
conditions:
1. The structure meets all Uniform Building and Fire Code
requirements.
2. The structure meets all requirements of the Minnesota
Department of Health.
3. Two (2) offstreet parking spaces plus one (1) additional
space per rental room must be provided.
4. One non-illuminated sign may be erected on the property,
not to exceed six (6) square feet in size.
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5. There shall be no more than one employee in addition to
the residents."
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Planning commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 5
2. Section 7.04, Conditional Uses, in the R-l Districts should be
amended to read:
13. Bed and Breakfast Establishments"
3. Section 4.02, Definitions, should be amended to read:
"An owner occupied principle dwelling in which five (5) or less
rooms are rented on a nightly basis for a period of less than
seven (7) days. Meals mayor may not be provided to residents and
overnight guests."
J. Thompson, Merz, Conrad, Ryan and Noziska voted in favor.
Albee and M. Thompson opposed. Motion carried.
M. Thompson and Albee felt that there were other zones and rami-
fications that have not yet been considered. The changing of the
ordinance is much broader than just the residential districts.
Public Hearing: Zoning Ordinance Amendment Request #84-7 to allow
commercial nurseries as conditional uses in the R-la,
Agricultural Residence District, Mark VanHoff, applicant
Public Present
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Mark vanHoff
applicant
Dacy stated that the applicant is requesting a zoning ordinance
amendment to include commercial nurseries in the R-la district.
She stated that the ordinance now provides for greenhouses as an
accessory use to a private residential use and prohibits such a
use as a principal use of land. She also noted that there was no
provision for a wholesale or retail nursery where goods are sold
on the premiese and retail traffic is generated. She stated that
because of these provisions Halla Nursery and the Holasek
greenhouse are considered non-conforming uses. She stated that
commercial nursery activities may include growing ranges,
greenhouses, a sales building and accessory buildings. She
stated that by allowing commercial nurseries as conditional uses
this would require site plan review with a public hearing process
which would give the City the opportunity to impose appropriate
conditions on the site plan.
Mark VanHoff stated that this is a cash crop meaning it would
take less equipment to maintain it and that it would be less of
an eye sore in that it there would be no manure or fertilizers.
He stated that it takes from 4 to 5 years to harvest it. He also
stated that he was not going to retail, it would be a growing
nursery, and shipped out and sold when the crop was mature.
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Noziska moved, seconded by Albee to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 6
Ryan asked what type of equipment would be used in this type of
operation.
Jim Wilson, a partner of Mark VanHoff, stated that he felt it was
very unusual that they have to go through this process. He
stated that instead of growing corn, beans or hay they would be
growing trees. He stated that basically the equipment used would
be tractors, cultivator, a mower, a tree spade, and a couple of
pick-up trucks.
Ryan asked if the trees would be sold in place.
Jim Wilson stated that they will harvest the trees themselves.
Ryan asked what the difference is between this operation and
Natural Green.
Dacy stated that Natural Green is a landscaping contractor's yard
activity and they have a settlement agreement to continue until a
certain date in time. She stated that landscaping contractor's
yards are now allowed as conditional uses under the definition of
a contractor's yard that was recently passed.
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Conrad stated that the way the recommendation reads, commercial
nurseries and greenhouses, they could carryon sales activities.
Dacy stated yes retail and or wholesale activity.
Conrad asked why should we allow that.
Dacy stated that, as the applicant pointed out, it is an agri-
cultural activity and you are more or less just selling the
crops.
Mark VanHoff stated that we are not like the Natural Green opera-
tion. He stated that there would be no retailing at all. They
want a sales building just to have some place for their customers
to conduct business.
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Dacy stated that as it exists now, there is no provision in the
ordinance to allow for commercial nursery and greenhouses. She
stated that this can occur in the R-la area and it can be com-
patible to adjacent uses and by amending the ordinance it would
eliminate the non-conforming status for Halla Nursery and Holasek
operation. She added that then the applicant would have to sub-
mit a specific site plan, showing grading, location of buildings
and where he is going to keep the nursery stock, driveways, and
access.
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Planning commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 7
The Commissioners felt that they want it stated in the amendment
that they did not want to allow future applicants to carryon an
operation that would allow them to put up a retail sales outlet
which would require large parking lots.
Ryan asked if this ordinance amendment qualifies Halla Nursery and
Holasek for a conditional use permit.
Dacy stated that the same approach that that was used for
contractor's yards could be used in this cases. She also stated
that a definition for commercial nurseries and greenhouses could
be devised so that retail activity is clearly related to the
selling of the product on site.
Albee moved, seconded by Conrad to recommend approval of zoning
Ordinance Amendment #84-7 to amend Section 6.04 of the zoning
Ordinance, conditional uses in the R-la District, as follows:
14. Wholesale commercial nurseries.
J. Thompson, Merz, Albee, Conrad and Noziska voted in favor.
Ryan and M. Thompson opposed. Motion carried.
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Ryan stated that the amendment brings in the category of commer-
cial into a residential agricultural district. He stated that we
can't control the size or traffic from it. He stated that there
there are places where these operations are allowed and they
should not be allowed in that zone.
M. Thompson felt that we are going to establish conditional uses
then we should set up some guidelines so that the city staff
can determine what criteria would be acceptable.
PUD Sketch plan Review #84-2: Planned unit Development request
to subdivide a 12 acre parcel into four lots on property zoned
R-la, Agricultural Residence, and located on the Ches Mar Farm
property west of and adjacent to Hwy. 41 just north of Camp
Tanadoona, David C. Bell Investment Company, applicant.
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Olsen explained that the applicant is submitting for informal
review a 'proposed four lot planned residential development on 12
acres now zoned R-la. She stated that the existing structures
and density will remain the same and no additional development
will occur. She stated that the two family and multiple
dwellings were in existence before the adoption of the Zoning
Ordinance thus making them non-confomring uses. She added that
the applicant states that these are now rental properties and
wants them under individual ownership for better maintenance in
the future. She stated that the Herman house will be moved onto
the property where a duplex has been removed. She added that the
each proposed lot will be serviced by its own septic sytem and
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
P ag e 8
private well. She stated that the City Engineer suggests Outlot
A, which contains the private driveway, be enlarged to a 50 foot
width along Lot 2 and a 40 foot width along Lot 1 to allow for
public utility installation and roadway dedication if municipal
services become available.
Albee stated that she does not want to set precedent of allowing
development in R-la areas under 2! acres. She felt these tracts
are a poor way to encourage development in Chanhassen.
Dacy stated that Mr. Kirt wanted to eliminate the non-conforming
status of the buildings so that individual lots can be sqld. She
stated that the buildings were built several years before the
enactment of the zoning ordinance and the P-l district would allow
these uses to become conforming. She stated that under indivi-
dualized ownership, the buildings will be maintained better. No
future development is planned.
Ryan stated that this is not a PUD. He stated that the City
should be receiving something in return for allowing a PUD.
The Commissioners felt that as long as the applicant was not pre-
sent to answer questions, they should table the item.
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J. Thompson moved, seconded by
the applicant can be present.
Noziska, and M. Thompson voted
carried.
Noziska, to table the item until
J. Thompson, Merz, Conrad, Ryan,
in favor. Albee opposed. Motion
Albee stated that this is not the best use of the site and does
not want to set precedent in the R-la area.
Site plan Review #84-5: Construction of a 15,158 sq. ft.
office/warehouse complex to be known as park Court Plaza on
property zoned p-4, Planned Industrial Development District and
located on Lot 3, Block 2, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park, Roman
Roos, applicant.
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Olsen explained that the applicant is requesting site plan appro-
val for a 15,158 sq. ft. office/warehouse building. She stated
that a similar plan proposed by the applicant at this location
was approved by the City Council on August 8, 1983. She stated
that the proposed site plan meets the standards for the p-4
district subject to various conditions. She stated that, as in
other developments, concrete curbing is required in all areas
except where future expansion is anticipated. She also stated
that the applicant must submit plans showing the location and
detail of signage, lighting location, style and mounting, loca-
tion, access and screening of trash enclosures will also have to
be submitted for staff review prior to the issuance of a building
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 12, 1984
page 9
permit. She added that the City Engineer determined that some
detention of site runoff will be required prior to discharge into
Riley Creek and recommends regrading of the open area to the
south of the proposed building to develop a drainage basin.
The applicant was present and agreed with all of staff
recommendations.
Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson to approve Site Plan Review
#84-5 for the construction of a 15,158 sq. ft. warehouse/office
building subject to the following conditions:
1. The applicant must submit detail of proposed lighting features,
signage, and trash enclosures.
2. That the northeastern perimeter of the property be landscaped with
fast growing evergreens interspersed with similar species used on
the east side of the property.
3. That all permanent parking areas be lined with concrete curbing.
4. That the applicant must meet City and Riley Purgatory Creek
Watershed District requirements.
5. That the existing conifers to the north of the proposed building
must be preserved.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Approval of Minutes
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Albee to approve the November 28,
1984 minutes as written. J. Thompson, Albee, Conrad and M.
Thompson voted in favor. Merz, Ryan and Noziska abstained.
Motion carried.