1983 07 13
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
~ JULY 13, 1983
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
Commissioners Present
Chairman Conrad
Jim Thompson
Susan Albee
Bill Ryan
Howard Noziska
Commissioners Absent
Tom Merz and Mike Thompson.
Conditional Use Permit Request for the Adaptive Reuse of
Minnetonka West Junior High School, Public Hearing
Public Present
Jim Jones
Rich Nocoli
Mr. & Mrs. Ray Brenden
Curtis Ostrum
Kathy Ostrum
Representing the School District
2280 Melody Hill
6730 Galpin Blvd.
6480 Murray Hill Road
6480 Murray Hill Road
e
waibel explained that all of the uses proposed by the school
district were all non-retail type uses and are consistent with
the uses allowed in Section 7.04, subsection ll(a} of the zoning
Ordinance 47. He stated that any other potential uses for the
building are to be reviewed by the Community Development Director
for verification of consisting with the same requirements. He
stated that the parking spaces presently available appear to be
adequate for the uses proposed and that the signage is accep-
table.
Chairman Conrad explained that the City Council on Monday evening
did approve a zoning ordinance amendment which setforth guideli-
nes for the adaptive reuse of public or private school buildings
for private business purposes.
Kathy Ostrum: She explained that their property adjoins the
schoolon the east. Recently they had gotten approval for a
development of their property to put in six single family homes.
She stated that she had a question as to what is going to be put
into that school and staff had requested from them a 10 foot
walking path to the school for the students in the development
plan. She stated that if the building was no longer going to be
a school, she had a hard time seeing why they had to deed over
that 10 foot easement. She stated that she had no problem with
the building being used in these other ways because it is vacant
now.
e
e
Plannning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
Page 2
Jim Jones: He stated that they did not know the future and the
Board elected to rent the building instead of selling it. They
wanted to keep the option open in case they need to reopen the
school in the future.
Kurtis Ostrum: He stated that when they bought the property
Joyce Jackson said they allowed a pedestrian gate in that fence
because people were using that part. But he said that there was
nothing written and it could be vacated at anytime, that is when
they bought the property. Otherwise the condition of the develop-
ment, they (staff) did require that we put the pedestrian path
in there.
Kathy Ostrum: She wondered why this could not work in reverse,
if staff asked us to put it in with the option that it be sold it
could be vacated, should it become a school we would deed over
the 10 foot walkway.
Scott Martin: He suggested to keep the publics' options open and
if the building was ever disposed of for non-school purposes that
would be a good reason to vacate that pedestrian walkway.
-
Bill Ryan: He asked Mr. Ostrum what the status of that development
plan agreement was.
Kurtis Ostrum: He stated that they were working with Bill Monk
the City Engineer and he thought it would be submitted to the
City Council at their next meeting.
Chairman Conrad: He asked staff if it could be worded into the
development agreement.
Scott Martin: He stated that the City could not put into the
contract that they wanted to maintain an easement until such
time that building is sold. He explained that a vacation under
State Law has to go through a public hearing process.
Rich Nocoli: He wanted to know what 'conditional' meant in
conditional use permit and if the permit had a certain time limit.
Bob Waibel: He stated that it was a permit granted by the City
setting forth guidelines and conditions under which the operation
is to be conducted. He also added that if any use is found in
violation of that permit or those conditions, then the City has
the right to take action to remedy the problem and also there is
no time limit for the permit.
e
Rich Nocoli: He wondered if the outside of building would have
storage or any alterations.
Bob Waibel: He stated that there is to be no open storage.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
Page 3
-
Rich Nocoli: He felt that this would be great to reopen the
school for the kids to use the swimming pool and let people in
the community use it.
Harvey Parker: He wanted to know if the businesses would have
insurance, that the building be left in the same condition as
when they moved in, so that it is not costing the public any more
taxes than if it was left empty.
Jim Jones: He stated that they had an attorney design a lease to
protect them against that kind of problem and the whole rationale
of the idea of renting is to reduce the cost.
Jim Thompson moved, seconded by Albee to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Noziska, that the Planning
Commission recommend the City Council approve the conditional use
permit for the adaptive reuse of Minnetonka West Jr. High School
as proposed in Planning Case 83-3 Conditional Use Permit subject
to the requirements of Section 7.04, subsection 11 of Zoning
Ordinance 47.
Proposed Ordinance Amending the City's Zoning Ordinance and
Repealing Ordinances 45 and 64.
~ Public Present
Mr. & Mrs. Merrill R. Steller
Mr. & Mrs. Ray Brenden
Al Klingelhutz
Maynard C. Happe
1931 Crestview Drive
6730 Galpin Blvd.
8601 Great Plains Blvd.
495 Lakota Lane
Scott Martin explained that the proposed ordinance will have the
effect of permitting the subdivision and development of land in
unsewered areas for single family residences on 5 acre lots. He
stated that all applicable requirements of both the zoning and
Subdivision Ordinances will be applied to unsewered area develop-
ments, just as such requirements are presently applied to develop-
ments served by public sewer and water.
Most of the public present stated that they wanted to know the
reasoning of 5 acres instead of 21 acre lots.
Scott Martin explained that the City Council reviewed this debate
and felt that a larger sized lot would be more flexible to mini-
mize the density of the septic systems. The City Council did not
want high density because of the soil content, which is mostly
clay and could easily cause septic failures. Also that the lots
would be easier to subdivide for future development than 21
acres because you have to consider streets, slopes, soil, maybe
~ wetlands that would be in an area, it would be less complicating.
Chairman Conrad stated that sometime that area will be developed
and that there will be significant cost if you get into smaller
lots.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
e P~e4
Maynard Happe stated that near where he lives on Lakota Lane,
there are 9 houses and only 1 home is on 4 acres the rest have 2t
or less and that there has been no problems with the sewer and
water system. He also stated that what if someone bought a 5
acre lot and put their house right in the middle of the lot, then
how are you going to subdivide it equal.
Al Klingelhutz wanted to know if there was any stipulation as far
as where the house should sit on the property.
Martin stated that there was not, but added that someone could
not just carve out a chunk in the middle of the property, because
there has to be an access onto an existing roadway.
S. Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Howard Noziska felt that this proposal was a resonable solution
to the problem. He wanted to know if Metro Council's minimum lot
size was 5.
e
Scott Martin stated that Metro Council requires a minimum lot
size of 10 acres. Our Comprehensive plan was adopted with 5
acres.
B. Ryan moved, seconded by S. Albee, that the Planning Commission
recommend the City Council approve the proposed ordinance
amending the City's Zoning Ordinance and repealing Ordinances 45
and 64 as proposed in Planning Case #58 Zoning Ordinance
Amendment.
Public Waters Classification of the Shoreland Management
Ordinance
Public Present
Harvey Parker
Susan Conrad
Georgette Sosin
Henry Sosin
Bob Dols
7480 Chanhassen Road
6625 Horseshoe Curve
7400 Chanhassen Road
7400 Chanhassen Road
7407 Frontier Trail
Waibel explained that the Environmental Protection Committee
reviewed the Shoreland Management Classification of public waters
within Chanhassen. In this review of the lakes within the City
it was found that all of the lakes were well within the criteria
for their classification with the exception of Lotus Lake. There
were five points that describe the findings on Lotus Lake.
e
1, The development density of Lotus Lake is extremely close to
the guideline maximum of 25 established for recreational
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
Page 5
development waters. When this figure is taken into account
with the configuration of the lake, being elongated and
narrow and having a relatively shallow average depth, it
accentuates the conditions that this particular body of water
is probably more susceptible to problems associated with
higer development densities and use pressures.
2. The crowding potential was well within the range established
for recreational development category.
3. The records indicates that Lotus Lake has not experienced
winter kill making it equally eligible for recreational
development classification.
4. The lake having a depth greater than 15 feet makes it equally
conforming to both the recreational and general development
categories, but the fact that 63% of Lotus Lake has a depth
of less than 15 feet and an average 11.5 feet, it implies a
more restrictive classification as suggested in the classifi-
cation criteria.
e
5. Lotus Lake is characterized as having wooded upland loams and
clay loams with significant areas having slopes exceeding
18%. These characteristics make it equally compatable to the
criteria for both recreational and general development shore-
land classification.
Waibel added that this proposal would effect existing lots of
record only with regard to the increase in the ordinary high
watermark setback from 50 to 75 feet. A general overview of the
development patterns on Lotus Lake reveal that this will not
cause any great increase in the number of substandard setbacks.
The change in the lot area requirements from 15,000 to 20,000
square feet for lots abutting Lotus Lake is only applicable to
properties proposed to be subdivided after reclassification.
The public present basically agreed that the criteria fit Lotus
Lake and that they had no problems with the reclassification of
it to recreational development waters.
Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
B. Ryan felt that the large property owners on Lotus Lake should
be individually notified when it goes to the City Council.
e
Albee moved, seconded by J. Thompson that the Planning Commission
recommend the City Council approve the reclassification of Lotus
Lake from General Development Waters to Recreational Development
Waters as proposed in Planning Case 001 Natural Resources and
-
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
Page 6
that staff inform the owners of large holdings on Lotus Lake
of the next City Council review.
Subdivision Request for the Northwest Quarter of Section 10,
Charles and Irene Song, Public Hearing
Public Present
Charles and Irene Song
Mr. & Mrs. Merrill R. Steller
6736 Washington Street, Fridley
1931 Crestview Drive
Waibel explained that the applicant is requesting to subdivide a
10 acre parcel from the approximate 110 acre parent parcel on
which they have a contract for deed. The applicant has indicated
that it is their intention to purchase the entire 110 acre parcel
on contract for deed, however, mortgage companies require that
they have unencumbered fee ownership on the land upon which the
house is to be built. As such, the applicant is requesting to
subdivide the 10 acre building site since it is an amount of
acreage for which they can afford to obtain unencumbered fee
ownership.
e
Chairman Conrad asked Mr. & Mrs. Song if they had any problems
with the conditions that are stated in staff's recommendation.
Mr. & Mrs. Song said they did not.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Albee to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
J. Thompson moved, seconded by Albee that the Planning Commission
recommend the City Council approve the subdivision as requested
in Planning Case 83-5 Subdivision and as depicted on the Site
plan marked Official Copy dated received May 20, 1983 Chanhassen
Community Development Department with the following conditions:
1. That the applicant receive an access permit from Carver
County Public Works Department for access as proposed.
2. That the applicant deliver to the City, Certificates of
Survey with legal descriptions for the resulting two lots
prior to the filing of the conveyance.
3. That a certification from the City be filed with the con-
veyance indicating that the balance of the property is not
eligible for any residential, commercial, or industrial
building permits until such time as the ordinances governing
the unsewered areas of the City are amended changing the
building permit eligibility of the property.
-
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
Page 7
e
Conditional Use Permit Request for an Addition to Holy Cross
Lutheran Church, Outlot A, Pleasant Acres 1st Addition, Public
Hearing.
Public Present
Reynold Roberts (Project Architect)
4941 France Ave. S.
Waibel presented the staff report on this item noting that staff
recommends approval as requested with the condition that concrete
curb be installed around the perimeters of the proposed hard sur-
face parking and manuevering areas and that the plan receive a
land alteration permit from Minnehaha Creek Watershed District.
B. Ryan felt that under the proposed zoning ordinance revision,
the property could be zoned as an Urban Residential District and
thus such facilities as day care could be incorporated into the
church activities making it a greater sewage generator. As such,
he felt that the church should be required to hook-up to City
sewer and water service at this time unless the City Engineer can
present valid reasons as to why hook-up should not be required.
e
S. Albee concurred with Ryan's statements for sewer and also felt
we may not have another opportunity to require hook-up.
H. Noziska moved, seconded by J. Thompson to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
B. Ryan moved, seconded by S. Albee, that the Planning Commission
recommends that the City Council approve the conditional use per-
mit for the addition and parking area improvements for Holy Cross
Lutheran Church as proposed in Planning Case 83-4 Conditional Use
Permit as depicted on the plans submitted by Roberts Architects
dated received Chanhassen Community Development Department June
22, 1983 with the condition that the perimeter of all parking and
manuevering areas be lined with concrete curb and that the propo-
sal receives a land alteration permit from the Minnehaha Creek
Watershed District. Also that the City Engineer provide the
City Council at their time of review of this case, a full expla-
nation as to the need for the church to hook-up to City sewer and
water service.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Subdivision Request for a portion of Lots 19 and 20, Murray Hill
Addition, Richard C. Stout, Public Hearing.
e
Waibel presented the staff report and recommended approval as
proposed.
S. Albee moved, seconded J. Thompson to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 13, 1983
~ Page 8
J. Thompson moved, seconded by B. Ryan, that the Planning
Commission recommends that the City Council approve the proposed
replat of portions of Lots 19 and 20, Murray Hill as depicted on
the Preliminary Plat for Murray Hill 2nd Addition dated received
June 22, 1983 Chanhassen Community Development Department.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Approval of Minutes
Noziska moved, seconded by Albee to amend the June 22, 1983
minutes on page 4, paragraph 1 to read as follows:
Chairman Conrad: They, like we do, have a Comprehensive Plan
that just got approved in the last year, and it's a multi faceted
plan. We have to make decisions based upon the their plan.
You're telling me that somebody on the Planning Commission said
that's not the way it's going, however, that is not reflected in
the official and adopted plan.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Open Discussion
e
The Committee discussed the remainder of the work program of the
Envionmental Protection Committee and agreed that a meeting
should be held with Court MacFarlane, Ladd Conrad and the Mayor as
well as staff as to how the balance of the work program of the
Environmental Protection Committee is to be carried out. Members
also felt that this meeting could also be used to communicate
their progress on the overall revisions of the subdivsion zoning
ordinance.
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
e