1983 07 27
PLANNING COMMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 27, 1983
e
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:34 p.m.
Members Present
Jim Thompson, Tom Merz, Ladd Conrad and Bill Ryan. Mike Thompson
arrived later.
Members Absent
Susan Albee and Howard Noziska.
Public Present
Michael Wegler
Chuck Koerner
Randy Schlueter
M. J. Dewitty
David Nelson
Lulu E. Sampson
Charles Hebert
Robert Amick
Rosean Amick
6630 Mohawk Drive
621 Broken Arrow Drive
580 Fox Hill Drive
761 ponderosa
5800 Quail Ave. N.
6940 Lotus Trail
4620 Linwood Circle, Deephaven
581 Fox Hill Drive
581 Fox Hill Drive
e
Replat Request, Lots 3213 - 3218 and Lots 3224 - 3228, Carver
Beach, Lulu Sampson, Public Hearing.
Waibel stated that the applicant is proposing to subdivide the
property into two single family residential parcels. The
westerly proposed parcel is to consist of Lots 3213 - 3217 and
the westerly ten feet of 3218 and is to contain approximately
11,000 square feet. The easterly proposed parcel, upon which the
existing residence is located, is to consist of Lots 3224 - 3228
and the easterly ten feet of Lot 3218 and is to contain approxi-
mately 10,000 square feet.
Waibel explained that in 1979 the City granted approval of a
variance to the owner of Lots 3211 and 3212 directly west of the
property in a proposal for an addition onto the existing resi-
dence. When asked if additional adjoining land was available for
purchase to enlarge his existing holdings, the applicant stated
that the Sampsons were unwilling to sell. As a part of the
approval, the City Council added a stipulation that the Sampson
property would not be eligible for a lot split for the creation
of an additional building site.
e
waibel also added that although the above stipulation on the
Sampson property was made based upon a verbal statement of the
property owner to the west, the applicant, like any other pro-
perty owner, does have the right to petition the City for a
variance. Although the Carver Beach plan encourages the develop-
ment of properties in Carver Beach in increments approaching the
R-l District Lot Area Standards, it also recognizes that the
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
page 2
e
variance process will need to be heavily relied upon in order to
review individual proposals on their own merits or short comings
in order that new development may be able to occur in a manner
that would respond to and offset the planning problems caused by
existing development patterns in Carver Beach.
Waibel explained that a variance by definition is a modification
or variation to applicable ordinance provisions as applied to a
specific piece of property where strict enforcement would cause
undue hardship. Since variances are of a judgemental nature con-
cerning the interpretation of the intent of the ordinance, the
decisions of the Planning Crnnmission and City Council are based
upon the background presented by staff, applicant, and the
general public attending the public hearing without specific
staff recommendations.
Waibel summarized that staff finds that, although approval would
set forth the possibility that the property to the west would
never be enlarged beyond its existing 4,000 square feet, approval
of the request at hand could be granted for reasons that it is a
reasonable solution to the limited alternatives for use of the
subject property, that the property has good site development
qualities, and that approval would not alter the essential
character of the locality.
e
Randy Schlueter: I have two lots directly west of the lots in
question and my proposal is, I have stated this to Lulu Sampson,
to buy half of the land which would make my lot 100 x 100 and
her lot would be 150 x 100 which would seem to be conforming to
the ordinance standards and that's what I am proposing now. I
was denied it five years ago as you know by your records and I'm
giving it another shot. What I am proposing is that I go from
4,000 sq. ft. lot to a 10,000 (100 x 100) lot and eventually buy
some land that's less than me to get me up to code or to conform
with the area. Also, to put a house there now, she would pro-
bably lose 5 beautiful oak trees and it (a house) would not
really add to the Carver Beach area at all. I built the house in
lieu of acquiring the land eventually and I am putting in a for-
mal protest to this.
Chairman Conrad: You own the property west?
Randy Schlueter: Right.
Chairman Conrad: What is on that property right now?
Randy Schlueter: A nice house.
~ Chairman Conrad: You would like to purchase additional property?
Randy Schlueter: Correct.
-
e
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 3
Chairman Conrad: You want to purchase the property to bring your
property up to code?
Randy Schlueter: Yes.
Michael Wegler: I live on Mohawk Drive it's the north end of
Carver Beach. I built a home on Fox Hill, my father-in-law
and I built together. I was told that we had to have 15,000
square feet to build a new residence according to the way the
codes are now, and if you put in another house between Randy's
and Lulu Sampson's you are really going to pack them in, we are
going to have a high density housing in Carver Beach and I think
it's going to bring property values down in this area. I have
eight lots, my father-in-law and I, on top of Fox Hill and if
this is the case then there should be no question in my mind that
I shouldn't be able to divide my eight lots into five and put a
house in between 600 Fox Hill and Randy's. If we start doing
this, what's to stop ever body from saying 'why can't we have five
lots'. Chanhassen ordinance says that you have to have 15,000
square feet and it's going to be very cluttered. I can picture a
house in there and you would have to have an awful small one to
make it look right and I can see the problems.
Randy Schlueter: I would like to put this into perspective
financially. Financially for Mrs. Sampson it's applicable to
reduce the size of the lot that her house is on to 150 x 100 foot
lot and also sell the adjacent lot with approximately 100 x 100
foot lot for strictly financial reasons. Again, I would like to
state my case that it would be better to have her house on alSO
x 100 foot lot which would leave 60 feet leftover and would make
my lot 100 x 100 square foot lot. I made an offer that was very
close to half of the asking price that she is asking for the lot
and haven't heard back. Maybe I could question her realtor right
now what is holding up that consideration. Apparently they can't
sell her house with it being 150 x 100 foot lot.
Chairman Conrad: I think we will keep your negotiations out of
our variance request. I think we understand that you have a pro-
posal to her and that is good for us to know.
Michael Wegler: Just a question, I didn't realize that the
replat request is going through right now and you are dividing
down below standards on both lots.
Chairman Conrad: That is what is being requested and our decision
would be that we would have to grant a variance and we would have
to feel based on some of the things that staff has given us, that
we can grant a variance based on undue hardship or something like
that and that is what would be persuasive in granting a variance.
Bob Waibel: As I noted before the Carver Beach Plan recognizes
that the variance process would have to be relied on heavily to
sort out some of the individual development problems within the
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 4
e
areas of Carver Beach. I did give the Planning Commission in
the report a list of seven statements of findings that they
should be evaluating when going through this review. Carver
Beach is a unique development area and alot of problems built in.
with proper consideration of each of these points perhaps the
best resolution for everybody can be worked out.
David Nelson: I'm Dave Nelson (representing Mrs. Sampson).
Chairman Conrad: O.k. Dave, I guess there is a couple of
questions that we may have and if you can help us. Do you know
the reason why the property was not sold five years ago? Do you
know any of the history?
David Nelson: I'm not sure why they never sold except that they
didn't want to sell it I suppose. It's just plain and simple I
guess. Right now the house has been sold contingent on this
split being okayed.
e
Michael Wegler: The houses there on Fox Hill Drive on the north
side, the way they are situated now right now is all pretty basi-
cally equal. If you do put another one (house) in between
Randy's and Mrs. Sampson's, it isn't going to conform with the
properties around because it going to interfere because of pri-
vacy and if that is the case I do have a sewer and water stub on
the top of Fox Hill. I look at the plat and it's platted for
four lots there and I could almost divide mine down and sneak
another house in there.
Chairman Conrad: We in most cases try to reflect what the com-
munity wants, what the neighborhood wants. It's really a role
that we feel very strongly. We are holding a public hearing and
it is our role to take the public input and mash it with any kind
of ordinances that we see. I think most of us up here are very
sensitive to a neighborhood and how they want to grow. If that
neighborhood wants to grow in 5,000 square foot parcels, we would
be sensitive to hearing that. If the neighborhood wants to grow
with 15,000 or 20,000, again we would try to reflect that in any
of our zoning ordinances and comprehensive plan which we are
reviewing right now. We have a consultant with us and are going
through all the neighborhoods in Chanhassen and saying "How
should they be zoned?", "What lot size should they be?". We are
at the current time taking a look at Carver Beach and I think
your input tonight is interesting for us because we don't know
really what is appropriate there. Alot of the buildings had been
completed before our ordinances were really 'in tune' and we try
to match individual rights of development with the neighborhood
and their particular rights.
e
Rosean Amick: I live across the street from Mrs. Sampson's pro-
perty. I don't know if you have a diagram of where the house is
e
e
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 5
situated on the lot. She's on the corner lot and has got quite a
steep hill which puts the house quite a bit to the west side of
the proposed lot. So therefore, if you did squeeze a house in
there, it would really looked squeezed.
Michael Wegler: When I put the house on the top of Fox Hill I
went an applied for a building permit and got it. They said that
we had to have 16,000 square feet or 15,000 and I said fine
because we have 16,000. They said o.k. well how about getting a
variance and Mr. Snead to the west. I wanted to get two more
lots and do the same thing that's in the process here. He (Mr.
Snead) said well we really don't want to see this happen out
here, we want to keep the lots in size of 15,000 square feet. It
would have been to my advantage to do that because there two
sewer and water stubs there, but I left it that way because we
don't need higher density there.
Jim Thompson moved, seconded by Tom Merz to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Chairman Conrad: I am still searching for the hardships. Bob
can you give us the reasons for allowing the variance or that
would justify granting the variance.
Bob Waibel: That property that's being proposed to be split
right now would be eligible for a building permit without the
variance, if it was under separate ownership at the time when the
zoning ordinance was adopted. Chances are it would have been as
a 10,000 square foot vacant parcel, assessed as a buildable lot.
You would have had no choice but to grant the building permit or
remove the assessment. It's really quite cumbersome, the way
that the Carver Beach area assessment policy is written, the way
the Carver Beach Plan is written, the way variances are treated
in Carver Beach. There is no other way but to do it on a case by
case basis.
Chairman Conrad: This particular parcel has been assessed one
unit, right?
Bob Waibel: Yes because it was a parcel with an existing home on
it and it was under the same ownership.
Bill Ryan: What you're saying is Mrs. Sampson has been paying
only one assessment on the property.
Bob Waibel: To my knowledge it was assessed one unit according
to the Carver Beach criteria.
Bill Ryan: Why is this coming back to us if the City Council in
1977 said we couldn't do this?
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 6
e
Bob Waibel: One thing, they are telling the Sampsons is that
they can't do anything with their property, they have to either
keep it or sell it to Mr. Schlueter, they cannot develop that at
all. However, one council cannot not bind over a future council
and they have the right as an owner to apply and ask for this
consideration by the Planning Commission.
Chairman Conrad: It was a verbal, your words in the report say
'verbal' discussions.
Bob Waibel: That's the way the record indicates.
Jim Thompson: Bob, what is the lot size directly west of this
property?
Bob Waibel: Mr. Schlueter's property is 4,000 square feet.
e
Jim Thompson: Is there a house on it?
Bob Waibel: There was an existing home on that property, I don't
know when it was initially built. It was a year round dwelling
when they put the sewer and water in and then it was assessed a
full unit because it was an existing residence even though it was
on 4,000 square feet. It would not have been assessed if there
was not an existing residence because it was not 10,000 square
feet of vacant land.
Tom Merz: To me there is no improvement to any of the other
properties. We are talking about, instead of one parcel that's
not conforming, we would have three. Well I guess that's not
true because the 4,000 foot parcel will exist. You talk about
variances from 15,000 all the way down to 10,000 and it just
seems so drastic that its detrimental to the adjoinging proper-
ties there.
Jim Thompson: I don't think the City Council should have said
three years ago that they couldn't split the lot. I'd like to
see continuity in the whole area as much as possible.
Bill Ryan: On the whole issue of variances, I prefer to work on
the basis of granting variances to allow people to do things that
had become consistent with the neighborhood. Not variances by
exception, this is when that provides an exception to the zoning
rather than compliant to it. I find it difficult to go along
with this.
e
Chairman Conrad: I fail to see the reason based on why we would
grant a variance. I have yet to see a rationale for granting it.
Carver Beach is a very different place and I understand why the
variance process is being used, but taking a look at the options
and the rationale for granting the variance, I feel that there is
not a just reason presented to me yet. The applicant could still
-
e
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 7
do so, provide us with more information, but at this point in
time I don't feel that I have any reason to grant that variance
when we have a chance to keep this 'sub-community'. At least the
neighborhood is telling me that they want it a particular way and
this is not in concert with that particular way. I think what
staff has done is they took a bigger picture of the Carver Beach
area and told us that this might be more of a conforming use. To
me I'm still looking at the particular neighborhood and have a
problem granting this request at this time.
Bill Ryan moved, seconded by Jim Thompson to recommend to the
City Council that they deny this request as proposed in Planning
Case 83-8 Subdivision. B. Ryan, J. Thompson, T. Merz and L.
Conrad voted in favor, M. Thompson abstained. Motion carried.
Site Plan Review, Dunn/Roos Office Warehouse Building, Lots 3, 4
and 5, Block 2, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park.
Public Present
Ed Dunn
Roman Roos
4940 viking Drive, Minneapolis 55435
10341 Heidi Lane, Chaska
Waibel stated that the request is for Site Plan approval of a
three phase office/warehouse complex on Lot 2, Block 2,
Chanhassen Lakes Business Park First Addition and Lot 1, Block 1,
Chanhassen Lakes Business Park Second Addition. The first phase
is to consist of building, parking and landscaping improvements
for proposed buildings A and B as well as overall site grading.
The second phase is to consist of building C and parking improve-
ments and the third phase is to consist of buildings D and E and
parking improvements. If the plan is approved as proposed, the
future phases would be subject only to building plan check for
building permit issuance and eventual vacation of the property
line between the lots upon which the project is located.
waibel stated that this project has a unique variation for
P-Districts within the City by breaking the monotony of one
structure per lot by proposing a modular layout of buildings of
like type construction.
Waibel stated that the applicant has been advised that with the
plans proposed by vacating the lot line, it may be quite dif-
ficult in the future to sell the buildings and land in increments
due to building, parking and access layout. He added that pro-
vided the lot line dividing the project area is ultimately
vacated, the plan meets all of the standards for setbacks and
impervious surface area ratios with the exception of the north
side of the proposed parking area for buildings D and E which is
approximately 15 feet from the property line abutting Highway 5.
Although there would be no direct access allowed from the site to
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 8
e
Highway 5, this area is technically a front yard for which a
standard 25 feet has been used for parking setbacks. He stated
that taking into account the classification of this area as a
front yard without direct access, this ten foot differential can
be offset by planting of dense perennial landscaping at the time
this phase is developed.
Waibel also stated that portions of the access and parking areas
are located over a City watermain and in the past the City has
approved construction provided an indemnity agreement was given
to the City holding them harmless for costs associated in
restoration within the easement should repairs be necessary.
The Commissioners were curious about the signage.
The applicant stated that they could have only one sign per
building.
Some of the Commissioners were concerned that according to the
site plan with the elevation it shows, if you were to drive along
Highway 5, you would be looking at a loading dock.
e
Mr. Roos explained that each project is just a suggested project.
The two buildings to the north have not been sold as of this
time. The final design, if there is in deed a loading dock, the
building will be subject at that point for staff review.
Waibel also added that he did mention in the report the con-
ditions of approval of the loading dock facilities for future
phasing be designed to zoning ordinance standards.
Mr. Roos also added that they are trying to market their project
for the small business man that would like to have partial office
space and partial warehouse space. He felt that the individual
type buildings would be one way to get companies into Chanhassen
and also give the 9wner of the building a tax benefit.
Jim Thompson moved, seconded by Tom Merz, to recommend that the
City Council approve the site plan for the Twin pine project as
depicted on the plan entitled "Twin pine Development #1" prepared
by Thorsen and Thorshov Associates Inc. marked Official Copy and
filed in 83-1 Site plan Review with the following conditions:
1. That the replat of Lots 2, 3 and 4, Block 2, Chanhassen Lakes
Business Park 1st Addition be filed prior to the issuance of
a building permit for buildings A and B and that the vacation
of the lot line dividing Lots 2 and 3 of Block 2, Chanhassen
Lakes Business Park 1st Addition be filed prior to the
issuance of building permits for buildings C, D or E.
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 9
e
2. That the applicant deliver to the City an indemnity agreement
holding the City harmless for restoration costs in case utility
repairs are necessary to the watermain located on Lot 2, Block
2, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park 1st Addition.
3. That loading dock facilities for future phases be designed to
Zoning Ordinance standards.
4. That dense perennial landscaping materials be planted between
the northerly parking area and Highway 5 right-of-way at the
time said parking area is to be developed.
5. That all parking areas and access drives be line with
concrete curb.
6. That the parking be limited only to the areas so designated
on the plans submitted.
7. That the applicant receive grading, drainage and erosion
control plan approvals from the City Engineer and Riley
Purgatory Creek Watershed District.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
~ Proposed Zoning Ordinance Amendment Regulating Private Swimming
Pools.
Scott Martin summarized that the Chanhassen Public Safety
Committee recommended that the City adopt regulations providing
for the fencing of private swimming pools to prevent children
from gaining uncontrolled access to such pools. He also stated
that the Committee felt that there should be certain location
requirements established for private pools. They felt that
swimming pools should not be located in the front or side yards,
and no closer than 10 feet from any property line; provided that
pump and filter installations shall not be located closer than
twenty feet from any property line. Also the pool should not be
located within ten feet of any overhead or underground utility
line or crossed overhead by any electrical line.
Martin stated that the existing ordinance language refers to
multiple family districts which leaves a big loop hole for pri-
vate pools in single family districts. They are becoming a big
concern for safety issues. He also noted that in the recommen-
dation the owners of existing pools shall have 180 days from the
effective date of this ordinance to comply with the fencing pro-
visions.
e
Mike Thompson moved, seconded by Jim Thompson to table the item
to get more public input and that letters be mailed out to the
homeowners associations informing them of the issue.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
e
e
e
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 1983
Page 10
Approval of Minutes
Jim Thompson moved, seconded by Bill Ryan to approve the minutes
of July 13, 1983 as written. Jim Thompson, Bill Ryan and Ladd
Conrad voted in favor, Tom Merz and Mike Thompson abstained.
Motion carried.
Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance Worksession
Zack Johnson was present to go over the revisions with the
Commissioners.
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.