1988 11 02
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CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 2, 1988
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ladd Conrad, Steve Emmings, Annette Ellson, David Heala
and Brian Batzli
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tim Erhart and Jim Wildermuth
STAFF PRESENT: Larry Brown, Asst. City Engineer and Fred Hoisington,
Planning Consultant
SUBDIVISION OF 22.8 ACRES INTO 2 LOTS OF 1.9 AND 20.9 ACRES ON PROPERTY
ZONED RR, RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND LOCATED ON CHES MAR DRIVE APPROXIMATELY 1
MILE NORTH OF HWY. 5, GINER GROSS, CHES MAR FARM REALTY.
This item was tabled per the applicant's request.
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A CLASS A AND CLASS B
WETLAND INTO STORMWATER RETENTION BASINS LOCATED AT OUTLOT A AND LOT 1,
BLOCK 1, CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK 3RD ADDITION, JUST NORTH OF LAKE
SUSAN AND WEST OF HIGHWAY 101, PROPERTY ZONED lOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK,
ROSEMOUNT, INC..
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Larry Brown presented the staff report.
Conrad: Just a quick question Larry. The road between the two is not an
alternative, is that right for whatever the option is that City
Council...?
Brown: That's correct. That road will not be going in.
Conrad: Where's it going?
Brown: That roadway is part of Market Blvd.. You and see, it's not real
clear here but we will be proposing an entrance down at this point here.
Part of this crosses over into the Ward property and we consented to
obtaining easements through the Ward property as part of the Lake Drive
feasibility study for probably this access.
Conrad: This item is a public hearing so we'll open it up for public
comments. If there's a representative from Rosemount who would like to
make a comment.
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Bob Worthington: I'll introduce our case on the application that's before
you. I'm Bob Worthington with Opus Corporation. We are going to be the
developer contractor for the Rosemount project which is going to be
considered. The site plan item is last on your agenda, really the
operation for that is somewhat out of context if you don't take it within
the area of concern, the entire site plan. In terms of the alteration
permit, that was filed in conjunction with a site plan and plat
-' -- -<-- ---,. -- -~~ ~
-,----
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 2
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application for the property on which the Rosemount development is being
proposed. The Wetland Alteration was and should be considered in the
context not only of preservation of wetlands but also in terms of the
overall drainage, overland drainage program that we are proposing for the
site. We have two wetlands that are being shown on the plan. One is a
large wetland that the City identified as a Type A wetland. The smaller
one is a Type B wetland. We have gone through several analysis, both
field as well as in house on both of the wetlands to determine how they
could be used to assist in handling discharge in the form of stormwater
from the proposed Rosemount facility. The original proposal was to use
both wetlands to receive discharge from the parking lot area as well as
from the building itself for the Rosemount facility and then to transfer
the water that would be impounded within those wetlands into storm sewer
which would be located beneath the newly extended Lake Drive East as shown
on that plan over to an area to be designated by the City which would be
controlled by the City and which would be used for further impoundment of
water before it would be discharged into Lake Susan. That as a matter of
fact is how we described originally the proposal in our EAW which is
pending comment and final approval and the Declaration of Negative Impact
by the City. After analysis it was determined that a larger wetland was
very valuable. It had some characteristics to it that even though it was
going to somewhat be altered by an extension of Lake Drive East, would
warrant it's preservation. After consultation with the staff and the Fish
and Wildlife folks, it was determined that that wetland should be
preserved. A conduit or a pipe between the smaller wetland and the larger
wetland was the only water runoff discharge that would be allowed between
the storm water runoff as it left the site and was collected in the
smaller wetland then ultimately transferred to the stormwater piping
system that would be in Lake Drive East over again to the settlement area
which would be controlled by the City near Lake Susan Park and then
ultimately to Lake Susan itself. So the only alteration that we're
looking for this evening is to alter the smaller wetland. It would
receive most of the discharge from the proposed facility and in most
normal circumstances would not have any need to have water which would
overflow out of it into the larger wetland except in those times when you
have the 100 year flood, then you would receive some back up into the
larger wetland. The storm system that is being designed and being looked
at right now for the feasibility report for the City anticipates sizing
which would allow for all of the water that would be discharged into the
smaller pond until it overflowed into the storm water system over into the
ponding area which is yet to be designated by the City and I think that
was a stipulation as contained in the site plan review which would be
considered next. Then ultimately into Lake Susan so the Alteration Permit
that we're asking for is basically for the smaller wetland area only.
There is a larger wetland would remain pretty much intact with the
exception of having a small portion of it having to be restructured
through the extension of the Lake Drive East Boulevard or Road which is
the one that's to be constructed as a part of Rosemount so all of that
comlicated language I guess to kind of give some justification and some
background in terms of why we're looking for an alteration permit for that
wetland.
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Conrad: Have you read the staff report?
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 3
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Bob worthington: I've read the staff report. I have no objections to the
stipulations contained within that report and will work with staff to
resolve those...
Conrad: Okay, thanks Bob. It's a public hearing and we will open it up
for any other public comments.
Emmings moved, Batzli seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Headla: On the Class A wetland. On the very southeast side you have that
pipe carrying water from the road down to the Class A wetland. Is that
normal practice to try to get that rapid runoff? I thought we tried to
impede the runoff.
Brown: Sometimes the roof runoff, due to the contaminants, leaves what
not that blow around, the best place for them is to be directed straight
into the wetland where the nutrients can be stripped in that wetland and
go through that filtering process. Not very often do we have these
wetlands immediately adjacent to the site where it can do that. ....go to
water methods such as trying to disperse the runoff into a sheet flow
until such time as it reaches a body of water such as a wetland or a lake.
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Headla: I guess I'm so used to a sheet flow and I'm so anti-dyke and that
sort of thing, that creates a more rapid flow, I just have a hard time
understanding that concept.
Brown: It's not very often that we have a wetlands immediately adjacent
to the site where we can take advantage of this.
Headla: So you think the leaves and everything will just go through that
culvert and be dumped right in there right away? That's taking it off the
parking lot? Okay.
Fred Hoisington: Let me just respond to that a little bit. One of the
reasons we wanted that particular flow to drain into the wetland is we do
need, at first we were concerned about getting enough water into the
wetlands to maintain it's level. We felt the roof drainage was the way
that could be accomplished. One of the things that we talked about is, in
the interest of trying to strip whatever there is floating in that
material here, the water that goes to the wetland, is there are ways you
can do that with a manhole and so forth before it gets to the wetland to
collect whatever it is in that flow. That probably would be a good idea
in this case but we do need to put some water in that wetland just to make
sure that it...and we felt the roof drains was the way to do that.
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Headla: In really wet years, would it tend to be quite detrimental then?
In years like this, yes, it seems to fit real well but like just a few
years ago when we had a lot more moisture coming down. If the pond is
full, it's going to be damaging to have a lot more water dump in there
right away?
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 4
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Fred Hoisington: No. As a matter of fact, right now that entire site or
a good share of that site is draining to that wetland. What we're going
to do is be cutting that off because we're going to divert all of the
water, almost all of the water in the parking lot and so forth into this
wetland instead. What that's going to do is overflow into the storm sewer
first and as this storm sewer, a 100 year frequency storm gets too full,
what it will do is it will back some additional water into this wetland
but it will only be a temporary thing. Just kind of a holding pattern and
then it will be eliminated and continue off into the storm sewer. The
question is, if before all of this was draining into it, now how do we
keep the level up? It will dry up is what it will do over time so we need
water to support it and we decided that instead of taking it off the
parking lots into here, that we would take it off the roof directly in the
wetland instead. So it's a small amount of water.
Headla: Okay, I didn't understand that concept. That gets back to pages
3 and 4. I was trying to understand what assumptions do you make for that
type of drainage to go that way but okay. I like that. On recommendation
number 3, no more than 50% of the land around a Class B wetland shall be
sod or seeded. Is that pretty standard to go 50% on that? I guess I'm
uncomfortable because I don't know.
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Fred Hoisington: I'm not sure if that comes, apparently it does come from
the Fish and Wildlife Service in that case. One of the things we were
concerned about that it not all be finished, polished, fertilized area.
Something was pushing against that. I don't know where that 50% comes
from. I think it's something you used before. Does that ring a bell?
Headla: I feel uncomfortable. To me I think that's high. I'm certainly
not an expert on it and just shooting from the hip I question it but
that's all I can do. Should I stop there or can I go onto...
Conrad: Not to the site plan. Let's just stay on this.
Headla: Okay.
I like what I see here.
Batzli: I was curious, how far apart are the Class A and the Class B
wetlands right now? Approximately.
Brown: Approximately 75 feet. We have 100 foot bid back there.
Batzli: 100 foot? I was just curious because you're going to require
some grading of the Class B wetlands and you're going to keep a 75 foot
stripe all the way around the Class A wetlands, how are you going to
accomplish both those tasks? Are you going to be able to?
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Bob Worthington: Remember, this again, we're considering out of context.
This should be considered as a part of the site plan but this road which
is shown on the site plan which is no longer going to be there. So you'll
be eliminating those things that you did have then in these two wetlands
...this is going to be altered.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 5
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Batzli: Right but they're only 100 feet apart. You're going to have to
walk a pretty fine line staying just 25 feet from the edge of the Class B
wetlands without altering within 75 feet of the Class A wetlands, correct?
Bob worthington: That's correct.
Batzli: What are you going to do, stake that off?
Brown: One of the initial stages of construction will be to establish the
boundaries of construction limits.
Batzli: I guess I'd like to see, and this isn't really wetlands, this is
site plan more but kind of do what we've been trying to do in the past.
Kind of snow fencing or staking off some of the areas that we're trying to
preserve around the existing stand of trees and the wetlands and things.
My only other question, I think it's a fairly good plan here. I was just
curious in the 5th, we have the impacts needs to be identified and
appropriate measures taken. Who's going to do that? Is that something
that the applicant is going to provide?
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Hoisington: There are a number of things Brian. Both of us are going to
provide things that there. The City is currently doing a feasibility
study on Lake Drive East and the new TH 101 so there are a whole lot of
drainage questions that can't really be answered right now because of
that. The applicant however will have to tell us what the volumes and so
forth are going to be that will corne into that wetland from drainage so
yes, they will be providing some. The City will have to provide some as
well. It's kind of a melting of that information as we continue down the
road.
Batzli: What do you think might be appropriate measures taken to satisfy
anticipated pollution and/or nutrient loading impacts?
Hoisington: I'm not too concerned about the effects that we're likely to
have on a Class B wetland. I think we conceded, at least I have conceded
that that is going to be altered and it's going to carry the first flush
of water from this site for a long period of time. What's going to
happen, Bob explained this but it's kind of, the water in the small
wetland...Class B in the pipe and a portion of the required storage on
site will actually be born by the City in it's downstream pond. When it
does that, they are going to help pay for a certain portion of that
improvement because they're shifting their load off site. So most of that
additional nutrient load is going to go directly into, the first wetland
into the storm sewer into the City's pond where it will be stripped. It
will then trickle in a fashion down to Lake Susan through a rather long
drainage ditch. The one that already exists there. We think that will be
adequately taken care of. One of the things we've been talking about for
a long time with respect to the silt and so forth, is to have a catch
basin in advance of the wetland itself to catch the silt, the sands and
those kinds of things. It will have to be cleaned out periodically but it
does do the job extremely well.
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 6
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Batzli: What about the run off from the roof? What kind of roof is it
going to be? Is it going to be an asphalt type roof? Is that the type
of impact you're going to look at from the runoff from the roof?
Bob Worthington: That would be better I guess to be answered as part of
the site plan but John McKenzie... John McKenzie is the project manager
for the building.
John McKenzie: The final selection of a roof system hasn't been
determined but it would either be a built up asphalt and gravel roof or a
ballasted single ply membrane. So in any event, we would make certain in
working with the staff that water that drains from that roof through the
interior roof drain system through the storm sewer to the wetland is
consistent with what we're looking at. I don't think we have to
anticipate any particular problem because of the Rosemount operation that
would be different than any other roof drainage. We'll just continue to
work with the staff to see that those issues are resolved.
Batzli: Okay. I didn't have any more questions.
ElIson: I had some of the same ones that Bob just answered that Brian
had. It seems to me that if they can satisfy staff with most of these
types of things that are still open, then I'll be perfectly happy.
~ Emmings: Everything looks fine to me too. A lot of this stuff is pretty
technical and I don't appreciate it but the one thing that looked to me to
be kind of an inherent contradiction and maybe it's not is one of the 6
conditions of the Fish and Wildlife Service is that, for the Class B
wetland you're supposed to have an uneven rolling bottom on this Class B
wetland after it's altered. One of the purposes is to provide forging
areas for wildlife feeding in shallow water. In the EAW it says that
they're going to be excavating 6 to 8 feet, making it 6 to 8 feet deeper.
Those 2 things don't seem compatible with one another to me. I don't
know, am I missing something?
Brown: I think what happens is we have to again, take the conditions from
two different bodies and combine them. Provide an area where it's
sufficient for wildlife to come in and habitat. However, I think the EAW
is basically getting at trying to get that stormwater retention volume
that's necessary.
Emmings: It seems to me we're making a pond here, not a wetland and I
don't think we ought to have this condition on here from the Fish and
Wildlife Service. It seems to me that's inappropriate for what they're
trying to do with that pond which I think is a right thing to do but I
don't want to put a condition on here that they can't possibly meet. I
don't know what we can do about it.
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Hoisington: Steve, I agree. When I first looked down through this list,
I found two that I had questions marks. It appears, also (b). (b) and
(c). There is a possibility I suppose in some slopes but this is a fairly
small wetland. It's designed, built to do what it's going to do here.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 7
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Emmings: But these conditions are for when you're trying to keep it as a
wetland, not when you're making a pond out of it. I guess I don't know
why we should impose the Fish and Wildlife Service requirements on that
wetland, or what's going to be a pond. Maybe we should take them all off.
I don't know if any of them are appropriate.
Conrad:
I don't know either.
Hoisington: Maybe what you can do is suggest that we strive as best we
can to obtain these. I think we're going to have a real problem with (b)
and ( c) .
Emmings: Since we're not trying to preserve it's character as a Class B
wetland but we're actually converting it into a pond, I guess my
inclination would be just to take out number 4. The more I think about it
the less appropriate it seems. That's my only comment.
Bob Worthington: To reconcile with...there's no question that we're
creating the capacity for the storm water runoff that is needed...doesn't
make sense. Maybe it's at the edges you create... It's only a thought.
You will find some wildlife that will go to the edge and look for food and
go through some growth in terms of aquatic vegetation that will come up at
the edges. Maybe that's what the Fish and wildlife people are looking
for. Creating at least some medium there where the deer come down and
want to drink...they can do that.
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Emmings: I think too, these 6 conditions they put on, every time we alter
a wetland, they put these same 6 down. These weren't designed with this
in mind at all. They're just standard conditions. Maybe what we could do
to keep it in is say, just add in there before, say the alteration of the
Class B wetland, to the extent possible shall conform to the six
conditions. Then maybe we've made it meaningless but at least...
Headla: I think you've made it meaningless already. You say in areas of
shallow water. That's self limiting right there. It doesn't apply to
anything before you do have shallow water. That's at the end of (c).
Encourage growth of emergent vegetation in areas of shallow water. So you
don't care about what's going on. I like this because when I look at Near
Mountain, the pools of water they've got are very sterile. It's like a
swimming pool. Wham, you've got water and then you've got ground. You
don't have any shoreline at all. Ducks and geese can land there but
that's about it. I think you need some type of shoreline.
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Conrad: Normally when we had a previous consultant that worked for the
DNR, Dr. Rockwell would always give us input. As you know our ordinance
says zero degregation. Usually what we get back from out experts was
talking a little bit about that. In our kit tonight, I don't have a clue
what Mr. Burke is talking about. Normally they fill out our forms and
talk to us in our language. What I've got here isn't really anything that
I feel comfortable with. He's just really doing a different routine than
what we're used to. I've always trusted those people because they knew
our ordinance. I've always gone along with them. When they said it's not
a good wetland, a non-functioning wetland, we've applied that reasoning to
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 8
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allowing it to be altered. I'm real comfortable with that. In this
case, I don't know what they're saying. They didn't say. We've done a
real good job in the past of listening to them, using them as experts but
just letting them apply their guidance to it and when they said it's not a
functioning wetland and I think we've typically allowed that it be
utilized for drainage and we're not going to protect something that's not
that valuable. In this particular case, I still don't know if there was a
value to it and we've applied that to those reasonings or that rationale
to every other wetland that we've looked at until this one. Another
point, on his comments, and I'm just not able to send comments back to the
proposal or to the alteration. Version 1 versus version 2. On his second
page he made some comments, storm water storage, I would recommend the use
of concrete cisterns...to aid in reducing insoluble pollutants. Has any
of that been incorporated into what, are any of those comments bound into
the proposal or did we just say that's not important?
Hoisington: I don't see them in there Ladd.
of the most important things he says.
I think that is probably one
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Conrad: Yes, and nobody's responded to me on it. I haven't got the staff
report telling me that we don't think that's important or we do. I have a
problem with these two. Not that I'm against the dredging and making of
the pond. It seems reasonable. I just don't have any good input where
staff has spent the time to dissect what some consultant is telling me
that I can't understand so I can't vote on this. Somebody could make a
motion and take it through provided staff provides more input by the time
it gets to City Council.
Emmings: I didn't read that that closely. It says too, no more than a
third of the existing wetland should be excavated it says for aquatic
enhancement purposes.
Conrad: I just don't know.
Emmings: Yes, you're right.
Conrad: I don't know what he's talking about.
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Hoisington: We're really talking about a body of recommendations in the
staff report for our plans that you've seen before. Apparently that's
been generally applied to wetland alterations in the past. My
understanding and I was not present at the walk through the wetlands but
after Jo Ann came back from that walk, the impression I had was that the
big wetland ought to be preserved and the small wetland could be
sacrificed because it's a meadow wetland. There's nothing there. When I
read this, I see some inconsistencies in what he apparently told her and
what this says. I don't understand...either. I think the important
things that both of you have raised are to what degree will the...
pollution of the parking lots, off of the roof, silt sands and those kinds
of things before they enter the wetland. I think that's an important
consideration that we still have to work out as a process and we will work
those out with Opus and Rosemount. They are minor things but they are
important things in this case. The incongruity with respect to the degree
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 9
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of excavation, I can't explain. I don't know how to explain that to you.
Emmings: Your point on, for example the concrete cisterns may be included
where it says they still have to assess the wetland impacts.
Conrad: Yes, it could be.
Emmings: Due to roof drainage. Actually, that will come from the parking
lot.
Brown: I think the point here is, and you can certainly open it for
discussion but the point here is that the flow to the wetland needs to be
regulated and Jo Ann talks in her report about how it can be 2 feet down
one day and 3 feet up the next day. I think that's what he's trying to
get at here with this system because he wants a constant release rate into
those storm water retention ponds such that the wetland is not affected
daily.
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Conrad: That's one side of it Larry, yes. In all past wetland alteration
permits, Jo Ann and Dr. Rockwell or whoever's representing the DNR, tell
us that they've reviewed the site. That they find that the wetland to be
good, bad, indifferent, not needed or in great condition and useful.
We've listened to that. If they say it's not a very valuable wetland,
we're allowing that construction to take place and we don't apply the
standards. I don't have that in my hands. I don't have somebody telling
me that which is inconsistent with what we've done with everybody else and
that makes me uncomfortable. I've got two problems. One, Jo Ann is not
here, obviously, and she knows. She's the one that could solve our
problem. Two, I'm not getting the same information, the same type of
input that we typically get from those consulting people out there and I
can't interpret. I'm not smart enough to understand what he's saying and
why we didn't incorporate some of those things or if we did so I can't
make a recommendation.
Emmings: I'll take a swing at a motion.
Conrad: Why don't you talk to me about, what you're thinking of.
Emmings: I guess my notion is this. What I'm thinking is, that I would
propose to make a motion, I'm going to change the language in 4 just a
little bit in that I would make a motion to approve this with directions
to staff to take your comments into account and to square what appeared to
be conflicts in the Fish and Wildlife Service report with the staff's
recommendation and explain that to the City Council when it's presented
there.
Conrad: I'm comfortable with that.
Ellson: Let's hear it.
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Emmings:
You just heard it.
Batzli: We didn't hear your change to the language.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 10
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Conrad: I was wondering where he was going overall. Whether we want and
this is sort of discussing what kind of motion we want to make here.
Emmings: This is a pre-motion.
Conrad: It's a question of whether want it coming back here so we can
look at it or if we want it to proceed and make sure that staff does a
good job of analyzing it but send it along to City Council with additional
input.
Emmings: My notion is that they are all technical issues and they can
explain those technical issues to me all night long and I'm probably going
to, I don't know.
Headla: I think you brought up the one good point about, I can imagine
particularly in the springtime when all the grease and oil coming off the
parking lot is going into this pond, if there shouldn't be something else
in there.
C~nrad: I don't understand. Remember what we've got going on at TH 7 and
TH 41 and we've got skimmers over there for a little parking lot. There
we've got skimmer. Here we've got 1,000 cars, or whatever, and we don't
have, I don't know what we have.
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Headla: However, on the other hand, the village allowed themselves to put
inferior quality of water right through that immediate area so how can we
justify being hardnosed on this?
Conrad:
I don't think we're being any harder nosed.
Headla: I'd like to see 5 include some type of direction to staff to take
a look at the pollution coming off, possible pollution coming off the
parking lot. If it's appropriate action, they know more about it than we
do but at least highlight our concern.
Batzli: I thought that was already included from the current language.
Do you want to beef it up?
Headla:
roof.
I didn't see anything about parking lots. They talked about the
Conrad: Are you comfortable letting it fly out of here?
Batzli: Yes, I already thought with clause 5 in there, that there was
going to be a lot of technical issues determined downstream, if you will,
from this meeting. I assumed that they're going to look at the impacts
and the pollution and whatever and they're going to make appropriate
decisions and put in the appropriate devices for it. I kind of assumed
that already.
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Conrad: Normally we see that stuff.
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November 2, 1988 - Page 11
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Batzli: I know. That's I guess why I asked the question about 5. What
are you thinking of putting in.
Conrad: The only control you have is allowing it to proceed. You don't
have control of anything as letting it get out of your...
Emmings: In 5 maybe we can just, after roof drain you can just add,
parking lots.
Conrad: But the other issue is, there's a road going right next to this
wetland.
Emmings: You mean Lake Drive East?
Conrad: No. Market Blvd., right?
Emmings: That's on both sides. One of each side.
Conrad: So the City's going to take care of this wetland if Rosemount
doesn't but I haven't heard anything about that. This baby's gone for all
practical purposes but I guess from a consistency standpoint, I'd like to
hear and see the same stuff as we review this. Especially on a big
project like this. Steve, do you want to make a motion?
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Emmings: I do. I want to move that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Wetland Alteration Permit #88-15 with the following conditions
and they'll be the conditions set forth in the staff report with the
following alterations. I'd alter 4 so that after the word conform, the
introductory sentence to 4 would read, the alteration of the Class B
wetland shall conform to the extent possible consistent with it's use as a
pond with the 6 conditions of the Fish and Wildlife Service as follows.
Number 5, I would add parking lots right after where it says roof drainage
so it would say, wetland impacts due to roof drainage, parking lots,
and/or backup from the storm water retention pond. Then I'd also, not as
a condition but instruct staff to be sure to be prepared to explain to the
City Council what appeared to be specific suggestions set forth in the
Burke report from Fish and Wildlife Service with the recommendations
they've made so that we know all those things have been considered.
Conrad: Is there a second?
Batzli: Second.
Emmings moved, Batzli seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Wetland Alteration Permit #88-15 with the following
conditions:
1.
Submittal of a revised plan and calculations which verify the
preservation of the Class A wetland and shows the extent of alteration
to the Class B wetland.
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 12
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2. A 75 foot strip around the Class A wetland shall be preserved in its
natural state.
3. No more than 50% of the land around the Class B wetland shall be sod
or seeded. The remaining 50% shall remain in its natural state.
4. The alteration of the Class B wetland shall conform to the extent
possible consistent with it's use as a pond with the six conditions of
the Fish and Wildlife Service as follows:
a. The basin will have free form (no even-sided) shape to increase
shoreline length and provide isolated areas for feeding and
resting birds.
b. The basin will have shallow enbankments with slopes of 10:1 to
20:1 for at least 30% of the shoreline to encourage growth of
emergent vegetation as refuge and food for wildlife.
c. The basin will have uneven, rolling bottom contour for variable
water depth to (a) provide foraging areas for species of wildlife
feeding in shallow water (0.5 - 3.0 feet) and (b) encourage growth
of emergent vegetation in areas of shallow water and thereby
increase interspersion of open water with emergent vegetation.
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d. The basin will have a layer of topsoil (muck from an existing
wetland being filled) on bottom of basin to provide a suitable
substrate for aquatic vegetation.
e. The basin will have water level control (culverts, riser pipe,
etc.) to minimize disturbance of wildlife using the wetland.
f. The basin will have fringe of shrubs on upland surrounding the
basin to minimize disturbances of wildlife using the wetland.
5. The wetland impacts due to roof drainage, parking lots and/or backup
from the storm water retention pond need to be identified and
appropriate measures taken to satisfy any anticipated pollution and/or
nutrient loading impacts.
6. Meet any and all conditions of the site plan Approval #88-12.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Conrad: Larry, as a footnote. We have to have the right input on the
right forms from the advisory bodies. We have to have that. If we don't
get it, staff has got to interpret it for us. We also want staff to tell
us how the impact relates to our wetland ordinance. That has to be in the
kit. I know Jo Ann, you're not doing this and I know Jo Ann has got other
things happening but I want Don to know that and Jo Ann should hear that.
Rosemount shouldn't have to go through this. This should have been
debated before it got here and resolved.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 13
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SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 330,000 SQUARE FOOT OFFICE, WAREHOUSE AND
MANUFACTURING FACILITY LOCATED AT OUTLOT A AND LOT 1, BLOCK 1, CHANHASSEN
LAKES BUSINESS PARK 3RD ADDITION, JUST NORTH OF LAKE SUSAN AND WEST OF
HIGHWAY 101, PROPERTY ZONED lOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK, ROSEMOUNT, INC.
Larry Brown presented the staff report.
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Fred Hoisington: A couple of comments with regard to the site plan. This
whole process has been kind of an evolutionary one. One that most all of
you know since it's been here before for the platting and so forth, has
been one that because of the timing, the rapid pace that this thing is
moving on, and it was really one of the conditions under which the City
was selected. That we could get in the ground in November, construction
could start this year. It's necessitated that we kind of bring it to a
stage, resolve our problems and then take it to the next stage, resolve
our problems. We know you don't like to see so many conditions on a site
plan as this one has. We fully understand that. The most difficult part
of this whole thing has been the drainage. We think we've got all of the
things that you're talking about just about worked out. By the time it
gets to Council, they will be worked out. One piece of information that
still is not available that we know you like to look at, are architectural
drawings or image of the building and so forth. What Rosemount and Opus
people are willing to do is to come back to you on the 16th or whatever
would be convenient and kind of go over that aspect of the building with
you. They had hoped they would have those drawings here tonight but
because of the very difficult schedule and the need to select a certain
appropriate building...and so forth, we're not able to bring that to you
tonight. What they kind of want to do is they want to run through
everything that they have committed to. Again, you'll have to trust a
little on the staff in that these conditions will in fact be fulfilled.
I'm satisfied they will. I'm real pleased with where we are right now. I
didn't think we could ever be this far along this soon in the process but
we are and I'm amazed at the progress that Opus has been able to make with
that charge. So with that, what I think what we'd like to do is have them
make a presentation. Give you a good feel for what it is that's being
proposed from their drawings and so forth. I'd like to introduce again,
Bob Worthington who will give our presentation.
Bob Worthington: Fred has stated a precondition of, I guess of our
presentation which we hope that you will take into consideration as we
evolve and weave our tale through the site plan this evening for
Rosemount. We are very pleased to be able to be standing before you a
month and a half I guess since we initiated the process with the City with
what we consider to be the completed site plan with a couple of minor
modifications. Hopefully within the next week or two, we will complete an
architectural statement for the building which as Fred has stated, we'll
be very happy to bring back to you to show you what the final...is going
to look like once it's been committed to by the client. Before I
introduce John Miller who is the chief architect with Opus Corporation
responsible for the evolution of the site plan as well as the
architectural drawings which you won't review until later on. I would
like to go back a moment because, when I was before you on the plat, we
kind of gave you the plain vanilla envelope version of what Rosemount was
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 14
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all about. Why they wanted to be here and what they really intended to do
with the building once it's completed. Of course, I couldn't do as good a
job as the person who would be with us and shortly could do, from
Rosemount who has kind of lived with this dream, seen it evolve and now is
finishing up the final touches of it before we go into a construction
mode. I think that the story that he has to tell in terms of why they
have chosen Chanhassen, what they intend to be doing in this building,
needs to be told before we launch into very pragmatic and to the point
discussion of the site plan so without, if you can bear with me for a
moment, I'd like to introduce Jeff Schmidt with Rosemount Corporation who
will tell you a good story.
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Jeff Schmidt: Good evening. My name is Jeff Schmidt. I'm vice President
of Company Services for Rosemount and I, in that capacity am responsible
for the facilities for our organization in the Twin Cities area and
national and internationally. Rosemount is a 32 year old company that was
founded in Minnesota. In Rosemount, Minnesota. We've grown in Minnesota.
A majority, as a matter of fact, all our growth has been in Minnesota. We
have acquired other companies through our parent...and our own
acquisitions but our growth has been in the State. We currently have five
facilities, five major facilities in the Twin Cities area. We are
headquartered in Eden Prairie. About 8 months ago we started an extensive
search which included other states, as a matter of fact, and also some off
shore type locations, as where we should do and build our world class
manufacturing facility to build our pressure transmitters which is the
precision instrumentation that's talked about. This is a pressure
transmitter. It's something essentially this size. It is the major
product, the largest product line within the Rosemount family. This
project is by far the biggest thing that we've ever undertaken from a size
standpoint and relative to an impact that it will have on our operation.
We did this site search. Was probably, when we got it narrowed down to
the State and decided in the Twin City area, there were about 50 sites.
It got down to a comparison between Chaska and Chanhassen. We know both
communities because we are close in Eden Prairie. We felt that the
Chanhassen site was the site that would best fit the kind of operation
that we want to have. I don't know if any of you have ever seen our
facilities but we are very sensitive to the aesthetics and to the green.
We have parks in our Eden prairie facility. We have softball fields. We
have amenities for our employees. We are very concerned about those kinds
of things. We're concerned about vegetation and many of the conditions
that go along with the site plan that we talk about tonight. We fully
intend to try to meet all of those in response to the City's concerns and
to make it an area that we think is going to be good for our employees.
The building will have 700 people initially. It will be our largest
single facility in the Twin Cities area. We're excited about Chanhassen
and we think we're good community citizens. We have in other facilities
and I think in talking to those governments or if you're talking to
people, they would say we are. We're excited about showing you at least
our plans that we have so far today and we were hoping that we would have
the rest of them today but by next week we would have more details on some
of the elevations and the details of what the building would look like.
I'd like to introduce John Miller to present...
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November 2, 1988 - Page 15
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Emmings: Can I just ask you real briefly. The product that you make in
this plant, what is it and what does it do?c
Jeff Schmidt: It's a pressure transmitter used in the process control
industry and that would be an oil refinery or a pulp and paper mill. It's
a transmitter that has a sensor which essentially is in the pipe or in the
process. Instrumentation that measures the pressure. It takes that
pressure through an analog measurement and converts it to electronic
signal which is then used to go back to a computer which would help
control that process for that factory. So it's taking an analog
measurement and converting it to an electronic measurement.
Conrad: I've got a question. Briefly, when you compared Chaska to
Chanhassen for the site, what were the pros there and the pros here and
the cons in both?
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Jeff Schmidt: I think one of the things that Fred mentioned, and it's
difficult to make that determination here because you don't know. We
haven't had an operation in Chanhassen or Chaska. You have to look at the
people you're working with and you have to look at, get a feel for what
would go faster. That was an issue. I think probably the biggest thing
was the fact that we thought that the site was a beautiful site. We
thought it would be a good place for employees to work and we thought
Chanhassen would be a good place for them to work. It was a little closer
to our current operation. We did find in doing a study, when we looked
around and started evaluating sites, that 25% of the employees that we
currently have on the product line that we are going to move here, which
by the way we're moving 3 or 4 different facilities in Eden prairie and
that's one of the reasons why we're under such a tight time schedule to
get this done is we want to get those consolidated for efficiency reasons.
25% of the people in those operations live to the south or to the west, to
the south and west of our current facility so we're drawing from a large
population out here already. We felt that was good for those people and
we didn't want to go out, we'd like to get a little closer for those
people that are on the other side. I think it was the site basically that
sold it for us and the feeling that the City could allow us to go along as
fast as we have. And as Mr. Hoisington mentioned, I'm even more amazed at
where we're at today in the process. It was our plan several months ago
that we wanted to break ground on a site in November. There were a number
of delays, several of which were imposed by ourselves and by our parent
company but nonetheless we've got to a point where we might not meet that
exactly. We would hope to be very close.
Headla: I'm having a hard time with the area you're building and the
number of employees. It seems to be off by maybe 50%. To say world class
manufacturing, are you trying to operate a black factory?
Jeff Schmidt: A black factory in that it's secret?
e Headla: You turn off the lights.
It's mostly automated.
Jeff Schmidt: No, that is not the case. World Class is a term that we
didn't coin ourselves but it's one we're using to describe it. Basically
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 16
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what we want world class to be is we want this facility to produce the
kind of quality products that can be competitive in today's market and
that means some things. We're looking at different approaches like Just
in Time engineering, Tehoochi methods for measurement and cell
manufacturing. We're going to have 700 people there initially. This
facility, we're hoping based on our projections, will give us growth space
for the next at least 3 to 4, 5 years. And there will be more people
going in there... We are not a very automated operation.
Headla: This is just the...700?
Jeff Schmidt: This is essentially the people that we have on line right
now in different operations around Eden prairie and the Twin Cities and
those that we feel we're going to have to hire over the next 12 months
while we're constructing this building.
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John Miller: It's a real pleasure to be here in front of you and it's a
real pleasure to the be the designer for this facility for Rosemount. At
Opus we're totally convinced that they really want to make it a quality
project out of this. It's very aesthetically pleasing. It's going to
project a strong image for them and that as a designer makes me feel good
about it. I always like to work with that situation. I think we've been
through the site plan in several ways already. I'd like to maybe focus on
the building itself and what the concept of the building design is all
about. We worked extensively with Rosemount up to this point finding out
how their operation wants to work. What type of functional requirements
there are and I think we're getting a real strong handle on that.
Basically the concept we have is that they need a large, very flexible,
high base face that can function as manufacturing and also has office
space integral with that manufacturing space. As their product
development proceeds and evolves, the actual organization of these areas
within this big, high base face would be altered. Would be very flexible.
In other words, office space could move around the various parts of this
large high base space. What we're talking about basically looking at this
plan here is the high base space which is 720 feet long, this dimension,
by 400 feet wide. We're talking there about 18 feet of clear building
height to the bottom of the joist and that's the area where we would have
the flexible type of arrangement between the manufacturing and the office
space. Now that might scare you thinking of a 700 foot plus dimension for
the building. Initially I was scared. I get over that easily. What we
are going to augment that basic building block is providing around the
perimeter for additional functions that are of a fixed nature. In other
words, functions that will not be subject to the kind of change that we
see happening within the large building block. Those would be things such
as mechanical rooms, major central utility areas where services for the
building would be generated and dispersed throughout the building. There
are what we call personnel service areas which are conference rooms,
toilet rooms, break areas, some of these fixed type things with things
such as plumbing where they don't want to be moveable. Those are located
in various locations around the basic building block. We have a major
cafeteria on the south side of the major block which is almost 20,000
square feet. This is something that you would not perceive having to be
moved at any point in time. Those types of things are lower ceiling
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Planning Commission Meeting
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heights and lower roof height types of building modules that will be
placed around this larger box to break up the impact of the long walls
that would be on the basic building block. We have, as Jeff eluded to,
proceeded beyond this point as far as the elevation development has gone.
We're really excited about some of the things that are coming out of this
and I honestly think you'll be amazed at what the product we come in with
will actually be, the manufacturing facility that you think it might be so
I'm looking forward to when we can bring in more detail on that. I'll
just briefly describe a little bit some of the locational requirements for
some of these building blocks. The biggest one is the cafeteria area on
the south that we located there so it can take advantage of some of the
views to the Lake Susan. We've got it nestled in some major oak trees
there right along the crest of that hill. This is going to be a real nice
amenity space for the people working in the building so I think that has
worked out very well. We've got several of the break areas that are also
in that south face of the building that we take advantage of those to use
as a green space. The building as it functions, we have two basic product
lines that are on each half of the building and along this north face of
the building you'll see a large, one of these large areas that is, there's
a central utility area in the center of that. To the side of that area
are two loading dock areas which provide service to the two halves of the
production area. We are providing across from those berming as necessary
to screen those docks so they would not be a negative impact on a site.
Now along with having two production areas on both ends of the building,
obviously we have people working in both of those areas so we provided
parking on the east side of the building and on the west side of the
building with two major entries from each end of the building. Visitors
coming to the building would primarily come in the east side of the
building off of the Market Blvd. access into a turn around into the east
entry of the building. That's where the visitors would encounter the
building. Other than that, until we can come in with more information as
to the facade and the exterior treatment of the building, I'm here to
answer any questions you might have regarding site plan and building
concept.
Headla: What's your rationale for the 18 foot height?
John Miller: We had the parameters we were given is that they want 11
feet of clear height for installing the work stations as are required as
well as for movement of materials through the plant so there would be no
encroachment on that limit for height. Then above that we've got 7 feet
that we are allowing for all horizontal runs of utilities, of lights, of
whatever technical types of support equipment is necessary to get the work
stations and the assembly stations to function. So that's where our
ceiling height evolved.
Conrad: You're not breaking the parking lot up much. Any reason for
that? You've broken it up in two basically, east and west but we have 500
cars on each side but it looks like it's just mass parking.
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John Miller: One of the things we run up against in Minnesota is in
almost all of our projects we'd like to put more plantings in the parking
areas. However, the snow removal gets to be a major factor and the more
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 18
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islands we have, the more of a hinderance that is to getting the snow off
in a big hurry and being able to pile it somewhere up in the perimeter.
So we provided some green areas between the parking lot and particularly
along side major entry roads and this kind of thing but more for
maintenance reasons we try to minimize that. When the climate changes,
we'll probably...
Conrad: It's a lot of cars for one spot.
John Miller: It is a lot of cars. I don't think it's extraordinary
though considering what has been done.
ElIson: What are the hours of operation? This is a factory so does it
start by 7:30 in the morning or?
Jeff Schmidt: We utilize flexible hours and that means that employees
have to work from 9:00 a.m. in the day shift but they can come in as early
as 6:30. There could be instances where people would come on an overtime
basis and come in possibly at 5:30 but general the population would be
coming in between 6:30 and 8:00 is the normal starting time. Eight hours
then. We do run a second shift 4 days a week, Monday through Thursday.
That would go until approximately 2:00 in the morning. It's a 4 day, 10
hour a day shift. So there would be 5 working days...working days on day
shift and 4 on night.
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Batzli: The dotted line at the far end of the building there, what is
that for?
John Miller: There will most likely be future building development on the
site. However, that is really quite undefined at this point and just due
to the nature of the product development and not being able to define how
much square footage need there would be in the future, we really haven't
tried to get into that in too much detail. This is perhaps the most
likely scenario however. Where you would just extend the 400 foot wide
building by going out to the west of the building. Again, emphasizing the
need to keep the product flow and the organization within the block as
simple and as flexible as possible.
Batzli: I guess the comment was made that they hope that this is going to
provide enough space for the next 3 or 4 years so perhaps that expansion
isn't too far down the road.
Jeff Schmidt: That would be wonderful if that was the case.
Conrad: Any other questions of John while he's standing or should we just
let him sit down for a few seconds? We'll probably have some questions
for you.
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Bob Worthington: We've reviewed the staff report and understand all of
the stipulations that have been listed and have no objections to any of
them. One thing that happens when you're evolving plans as quickly as we
have with this product for this project, there's a lot of discovery that
takes place all of a sudden. One day something unknown becomes known and
Planning Commission Meeting
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you've got to make sure that... One of the things that the EAW speaks to
is the question about archeological artifacts in the site. There is a
requirement that you have to indicate in the EAW that there are no
significant artifacts in terms of archeological and historic significance
that are on the site and are going to be disturbed or destroyed by
development. We called the Historical Society and...by Rosemount to take
development, asked them if they through their mapping or through their...
artifacts in this area could identify any on this site. The Historical
Society, after taking a day to look it over came back and said we had
inclusive information. That's probably one of the worse things that you
want to hear if you're in a fast track and you want to move very quickly
on the site. You'd like them to come back and say no, ...there may be
some concerns that any developer would have as they're going into... In
order to come up with conclusive information we commissioned a
consultant...who was highly recommended by the Historical Soceity to go
out and do a site analysis. Come back with a report which we then could
definitively come to a conclusion relative to the significance of
artifacts out on the site. She just concluded in her study a week ago
with a preliminary draft. The good news is that there are no significant
artifacts left on the site... She did several digs and she found some
artifacts but because of the fact that this site has been farmed for a
long period of time, most of those artifacts have been destroyed and she
expected... However, she did discover two sites that had promise. These
sites and I will pass this report around to you. We didn't prepare an
overhead. You can see the two stars that are right within the setback
area for the building for the area that the building is going to be set
back from the lake.
Ernrnings: They're on the slope?
Bob Worthington: They're on the slope right next to the lake indicating
that they have some potential artifacts. They are going to be in an area
which will not be disturbed by the development. As a matter of fact, they
are going to be in an area which the City has identified as a public area
in which the City would like to put a trailway system along the lake
within and there is something that now the City will have to, when it
designs it's trailway will have to keep in mind if and when that trailway
is ever implemented. So the good news is that we are not disturbing any
artifacts of significance on the site. Those two sites that have promise
are going to be within the wooded preserve area of the site which will not
be disturbed by the Rosemount development which makes everybody happy.
Emmings: What did she find? You said she found something...
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Bob Worthington: Well, she went down and I'm not an archeologists but she
found some artifacts in the form of pottery. Apparently the original
settlers of this area, the Indians and their ancestors used lakes and
waterways to put their camps on. They also, as you know, used in this
area, quite a few of them for burial grounds. These weren't burial
grounds but it looks like the two sites which she identified as Opus 1 and
2, maybe it should have been Rosemount 1 and 2 but she identified them as
Opus 1 and 2, she found some artifacts which would have indicated that
that at some time in the past could have been used as a campsite by the
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tribes which were in this area. Temporarily set up shop there as they
were foraging and hunting. She indicates that it will take further
digging to determine what kind of relationship those artifacts have to
what actually happened there. But the good news is, it's not going to be
disturbed and it will be left preserved forever as far as Rosemount is
concerned and as far as the City's interest in it. So I thought I would
bring that little fact to you and there will be other things that we will
be discovering. We're just receiving all of our comments back now from
the EAW. Some of the assumptions that we've made that we're going to be
receiving comments back on. Of course we talk a lot about the overland
drainage issue which we haven't received all the comments back on but all
those things will have to come back and have to respond to. As a matter
of fact, we have a meeting set up for some time this week with the people
from the Metropolitan Council who want to make sure that what we're doing
in terms of phospherous discharge and handling of phospherous is going to
be adequate. For those of you who don't know, we were able to get Barr
Engineering to join our team as our consultant in the area of this
phospherous issue. As you know, they are the consultants to the Purgatory
Riley Creek Watershed District. They went to the board and asked if they
felt there was going to be a conflict of interest should they come on our
side and do this special research and analysis for us and the board
manager said that he didn't think there would be so they have come on and
done a very special technical report which I think is included with the
EAW that has been circulated and out for comment. They will be
accompanying us over at the Metropolitan Council on this issue and we
think with the caliber of consultants that we've hired on that issue plus
what we're done with our expertise in-house to properly mitigate the
impacts that normally would occur should we not handle the water runoff
issue properly. They will be able to take care of any concerns that the
Metropolitan Council may have on that issue. So everything is evolving as
Fred stated. Everything kind of is bubbling here and there but it has
a...to come together and we apologize but because of the fast track nature
of the project and because of the way your meetings are scheduled versus
how we're moving in terms of the development of plans. We can't bring
everything together in one fell swoop for you but we're willing, as a
matter of fact we've invited ourselves back perhaps at your next meeting
to kind of show you the finished product in terms of architectural
drawings and by that time we should pretty well know any and all comments
that have been received back from others so that you can feel comfortable
with the fact that we have done everything we can to be as responsible as
we can as the developer is saying in bringing a world class facility to
the City of Chanhassen. So I just wanted to bring that one point up. We
have no objections to the stipulations within the staff report. We have a
cast of thousands as you might expect. I apologize for not introducing
everybody. Mike Pescally who is sitting next to Jeff is with Rosemount.
Jack is in the back is also with Rosemount and then the rest of the folks
are with the Opus group. You've already met John. Christine Peterson who
is sitting next to John was the one person responsible for all the real
estate development aspects of the project. This is John McKenzie, Vice
President for Opus is the chief honcho as we call him in house in charge
of the project. He's the one who makes sure everything gets done right
and on time. Dave Vangasser is also working with John and what will
happen is, as most of you know...what we call a beauty contest where all
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the presentations are done and all the fanfare is over, then it will be
Dave's responsibility to make sure that everything gets done right. So
Dave will be the person who will be handed the baton once we're done with
the approvals here at the City and move forward with the project. So that
basically I guess is all I have to say this evening. I appreciate your
tolerance and your time...it's an interesting one. One that hopefully is
going to be a very important chapter for not only Opus and Rosemount but
also for the City of Chanhassen. We'd be happy to answer any questions.
Emmings: There are a world record number of conditions on this but given
the way the process is going, I think that's probably a necessity. It's
also nice I think of Rosemount to say they're excited about coming here
and I'm sure they realize that the City's very excited about having you
come. I think that has to be said. This is a wonderful thing for us to
have here. The only thing I've got is more a matter of curiosity than
anything else. Was it Detroit Deisel?
Conrad: Yes.
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Emmings: And I wasn't here for that one but I got the history of it when
we did the Sunnybrook proposal and both of those created quite a lot of
comment from the folks who lived around the lake with concerns such as
lighting and noise and generation of a major manufacturing facility. All
kinds of concerns of the neighborhood. Also brought the neighboring
property here to just about every meeting and there were quite a number of
them, of meetings and we haven't seen those folks at all and I just don't
know why.
Bob Worthington:
Is that the Wards?
Emmings: The Wards were here and I think their primary concern at that
time was the road and I guess, there are things being done with the road
here but it's basically the same plan as for Sunnybrook I guess so maybe
the Wards aren't concerned for that reason but we haven't seen the
neighbors at all.
Fred Hoisington: We have been working with the Wards very closely in
order to get something done with them so I think they're quite satisfied
Steve with what's happening here. Now the neighbors, if you didn't know
they had a neighborhood meeting but not very many people came... They
were all noticed.
Conrad: You mean all lakeshore owners were notified?
Fred Hoisington: Right.
Emmings: Maybe they're just worn out from the other two. I don't know.
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Bob Worthington: Can I just comment on that because that was one of the
first orders of business was to meet with the neighborhood and tell them
of our plans. Even though only 3 showed up, 2 of them were the more
important neighborhood organizations within that area. One...she
represented a number of neighbors and she was going to take back the story
Planning Commission Meeting
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and if they didn't like it they would be here tonight. We were truly
expecting that... By and large they were excited about our plans, if you
can believe that, and felt that it was a good use of property as long as
we handled all the issues that you just identified. The noise and the
fumes and lighting. We indicated into our site plan that we were going to
do that and told by staff things that they want to control are the things
that they are going to require us to control...
Emmings: I'm glad to hear that they've been included and that they've
been given notice and apparently they're satisfied. I don't really have
any other comments.
Conrad: Because they have been so vocal. Site plan review Larry is not a
public hearing, is that right?
Brown: That's correct. However, the plats were public hearings.
Conrad: Should have been.
Bob worthington: We did have a schedule that we did make for the
neighborhood...
e
Conrad: I'm really concerned with what the City is doing. We announce
the public hearings. We inform the people when there's something that's
impacting them. It's really not you. They have been so vocal in the
past, I don't think they're going to find anything bad here but not
involving them and I'm hearing you say you're involving them but I'm kind
of concerned a little bit because they're not here. The last time Detroit
Deisel was here, the last time that a resort complex was here, we had this
place full. The concern, there were different uses at that time. Maybe
they're not concerned anymore that this use is affecting them. They are
very concerned with lighting and you do have a parking lot there that's
rather close that basically glare should be a problem and I'm not totally
comfortable that we can solve that but typically they do show up for those
things. I'm kind of surprised.
Emmings: Are you talking about second shift activity?
Conrad: Yes, we're talking about night time activities and noise. When
you're on a lake, you're bouncing sound off that water and it's a concern.
I'm kind of surprised they're not here. They wouldn't be here tonight if
they weren't conerned...but it's not a public hearing.
e
ElIson: I really like it. I agree with John in that it's nice to work
with somebody who wants to do everything right. We find people coming in
wanting to change everything because of...or what have you. I really
enjoy seeing a plan like this. I think it looks gorgeous. That cafeteria
in the woods and everything like that, I think it's a great way to use
this site. I think the biggest concern I have is about the traffic. I
think all these people are probably going to be turning left to get into
here and that's 700 people to 900 people to whatever, when everybody else
is going into the city and we know how congested TH 5 is going into the
city. I don't know. We've got a left hand turn thing from MnDot outside
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 23
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of the SuperAmerica just for a neighborhood and I wondered what we're
going to do. Just to have that backed up all on TH 5. I don't know, I
can see that as being a problem around 8:00 or 7:30 or something in the
morning with everybody trying to take a left hand turn and there's nothing
stopping the people from going into the city and nothing allowing those
people to go around them or something. I'd like to see something like
that.
Brown: ...that's something that will be addressed probably with the Lake
Drive East feasibility. We have to go through, I anticipate a traffic
generation study. They will be accessing obviously Lake Drive connects up
with the County Road. It's a common requirement of the County that if
they exceed x number of cars...to allow a continuous flow of the traffic
around the left hand turn movement.
e
Hoisington: As part of this whole TH 101 process, we had some additional
study done by Benshoof and Associates who did the broadened study area
study. Ladd you may remember, we did a number of different alternatives.
At that point we had several different scenarios where we looked at TH 101
and what we were trying to do is evaluate traffic impacts for each one.
Rosemount was plugged into that traffic analysis. Everything was updated.
All the language was updated. What we concluded from that, or what
Benshoof concluded was that each of the three major intersections would
operate during the peak hour at level of service D. Very acceptable level
of service. Now when we had TH 101 on the present TH 101, Great Plains
Blvd., it was a level of service C at Market, E at Great Plains and D at
the Dakota. But when we moved TH 101 over to Market, we ended up with D,
D, D and it's going to work extremely well. We're not saying that you
won't have an occasional problem but nonetheless, all the traffic analysis
indicates a real good situation.
ElIson: At least they've looked at it.
Conrad: They have. Brian.
Batzli: I appreciated the artifacts findings. I propose that we have an
artifacts overlay for the city to go along with all of our other overlays.
The first thing I guess I wanted to ask about was the chemicals. I think
you have a chemicals room here and in your environmental statement you
talk about you're going to be discharging suspended irons into municipal
sanitary sewer system. Is that the normal state of affairs for lead
suspension in water?
e
Jeff Schmidt: Yes. Our current operation we are not a heavy chemical
user. We do have a small plating and cleaning lab that we have in our
operation. During that you take some parts in to clean and then you dip
them in these things. Sometimes there will be some small places of
suspended metals in those rinses that we have. Those are monitored
through the Metropolitan Waste Commission. We do tests every few months
on those things...putting them through the sanitary sewer system. ...but
it's a very small quantity. We do have some degreasing solvents and
things like that that we use in our operation that we dispose of
through...approved hazardous waste or those kind of agencies that deal
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 24
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with that kind of an operation. We take off the site...for disposal.
Batzli: So you're basically covered pretty tightly by the Federal
Regulations? All the safety data sheets and all that other stuff.
Jeff Schmidt: Exactly.
Batzli: Is the storage room, are you talking large volume storage or do
you have the stuff taken out fairly often?
Jeff Schmidt: We're only allowed, I believe it's to keep things 30 days
maximum in storage. The quantities are very small.
Batzli: How small is small? This is a big factory.
Jeff Schmidt: I guess I don't remember all those numbers. Maybe 2
barrels of a certain chemical. Maybe of the degreasing solvent or
something like that. We do have a list of that and...could certainly make
available.
e
Batzli: I didn't have an idea of what kind of chemicals really you were
talking about there. The other thing, I guess I did want to talk about
the fact that obviously the landscaping plan is going to be redone. I'm
curious if there is going to be shielding from the parking lot, between
the parking lot and the lake. I know that you're talking about an
acceptable one will be provided but I don't know, what are the
requirements for screening from between a lake or something and a parking
lot? Is there any requirements?
Hoisington: Really Brian, the primary landscaping isn't between the lake
and the building. It's from the parking lot and it's for the loading
areas behind. Those are the areas that Jo Ann has concerns about. The
whole slope coming up from the lake is wooded now so the few trees that
are shown, I'm not sure if they're on this site plan but they're on this
one, ...more meadow trees. Not for the purpose of screening. The trees
are already there.
Batzli: Yes. If this is the one you've got up there, they're not between
the lake and the parking lot. They're between the building and the park
and the lake so the question is, if the neighbors have a concern and if
you'd rather look at trees than a parking lot when you're on the lake, is
that something that's going to be provided for in the corrected
landscaping plan or no or can't you even see the parking lot from the
lake?
Hoisington: For the most part, the trees that are there will screen the
parking lot.
e
Emmings: How high is the site above the level of the lake?
Batzli: Is it 50 feet above the lake there?
Hoisington: To the floorline, it's about 35 feet.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 25
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Batzli: But then you're elevating the lights even higher up.
Emmings: But the lights themselves should be shielded but of course
you've got the glow.
Batzli: Are shielded lights planned on being used?
Bob Worthington: ...by the same token, we need the security for employees
that are going to be using the facility. That would require some
lighting...
Batzli: As it's currently drawn, is the parking lot 75 feet away from the
finished edge of the retention pond? That doesn't need to be amended at
this point does it?
Bob worthington: It's about 100 feet. The original concept plan showed
it closer. We've revised the...
Batzli: I guess my comment about either staking off or fencing off around
the Class A wetland and around the trees that you're trying to keep so the
bulldozers don't run rampant through this stuff applies to this as well.
The one thing that I really I guess had my big question, actually maybe
two, condition 11 here. What is this in there for? That's basically
saying that everything that we've got right now doesn't mean anything?
e
Brown: No, I think the intent there is, there is obviously some open
doors which exist right now regarding the feasibility study of Lake Drive
East. In Gary Warren's memo he states that there is more that need to be
worked out. Admittedly it's kind of blanket statement to try to cover
these open doors...for the feasibility study to be completed.
Batzli: I guess I see that and rather than have to go through the staff
report and find all the conditions in sufficient detail necessary for
reviewing approval, I assumed that's what the other conditions were trying
to do. Are you saying that there are some conditions that are in the
report that aren't addressed currently in the conditions that are in front
of us?
Brown: I think there are options out there such as, one of them being the
entrance on the easterly property boundary needs to be worked out in
conjunction with the feasibility report. In turn, we need to work out the
technical details of the storm water retention.
Batzli: But aren't those two already conditions? The storm water
retention is condition 19 again isn't it?
Brown: Yes.
e
Batzli: So the entrance to the east isn't a condition right now?
I thought that was already. That's option B entry road, that one?
Condition I?
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 26
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Hoisington: Brian, I think all they're saying with that number 11 is the
things that she is pointing to in these conditions need to show up on the
plan somewhere. That there should be a revised plan submitted as soon as
all that detail is defined.
Batzli: I guess do we not typically also tie this back into the, and
maybe it's already been done and I missed it, don't we normally this back
into the wetlands? Don't we just kind of automatically put them back and
forth on each other as one of the conditions of the wetland? Is that in
here? I guess I'd like to see that. Although some of the conditions are
in here already and I'm not sure if all of them are or not. It seems that
at least 3 of them were I think. My only other question is, the applicant
is responsible for reimbursing the City for utilizing it's ponding
facilities. What are you envisioning?
Hoisington: What we're envisioning there is that a portion of the on site
ponding requirement will be met with city ponding to the extent that,
there's a cost associated with that. They'll pay their fair share of the
cost.
Batzli: How are you going to measure that?
e
Hoisington: That's part of the feasibility study that's being done right
now. What they will determine is exactly...deficient and therefore
calculate the costs associated with it to satisfy that need. The
consultants are figuring that out now.
Batzli: Do you mean yearly?
the cost associated?
Monthly? One time up front? What would be
Brown: At this point, as I've discussed it with Gary Warren, I talked a
little bit briefly before the meeting with Rosemount and Opus staff is
that there's obviously costs. The incremental costs in enlarging our
proposed storm water retention pond to accomodate the needs of the
Rosemount site. We can calculate that additional storage that's required
and in turn the additional cost required to get that storage. As Fred
pointed out, they would be required up front to pay that incremental cost.
Batzli: One time? I don't want to make it sound like I'm not welcoming
Rosemount with open arms. This is a world record for conditions I think.
The one other thing I had which is perhaps minor but, is the trail
dedication, whatever, is that normally done at the preliminary platting
process or is that done now or did we see that then or where?
Conrad: Usually it's done now.
Batzli: That's not on here is it? Are you aware of the Park and Rec
Commission's, what they're doing with the trails on this matter? Can you
inform us?
e
Bob Worthington: There was an area down near the bottom of that plat that
was reserved for trails.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 27
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Batzli:
Is that normally one of the conditions?
Conrad: Normally it is. Usually we have a Park and Rec recommendation
that tells us what they're, because it affects the whole site in 'terms of
any easements or whatever. I don't see that.
Emmings: I don't know. My recollection is that when we looked at the
same site for Sunnybrook, the only place that there's a trail that affects
this site is right along the lake itself right?
Conrad: I don't recall it being a trail there.
Emmings: Oh, I thought there was. Or an easement at least.
Conrad:
It seems like there should be.
Hoisington: There is an easement along the lakeshore.
Emmings: That exists.
Hoisington: That exists. There is sewer in that already and it's a
fairly wide easement. I've heard it mentioned as a trailway also. Is
there more that needs to be added to that Ladd?
e Conrad: Usually we have a recommendation from the Park and Rec as to what
they're looking for in terms of additional improvements or park dedication
or whatever.
Bob Worthington: If I could make just one comment. The Park and
Recreation Commission did review, you might recall, stipulated two
conditions to satisfy the park dedication fund for the site. The first
was that the project dedicate 2 acres of land to the Lake Susan Park which
would be... They also required somewhere in the neighborhood of
$32,000.00 to be dedicated to the City in cash to satisfy the balance of
the park dedication requirement... We feel that with those conditions, we
are satisfying park dedication funds. There is an area reserved there
for trails...
Headla: Interesting on the
that's native to that area.
that's the City's problem. I
don't understand why we can't
I think we ought to do that.
landscape we don't put one tree back in there
I think that's really a problem. I think
think we should...give them a choice and I
put trees back in there that are native.
Conrad:
I thought that was a standard these days.
e
Headla: Juniper, green spruce, basswood are native to that particular
place. I'd like to see a lot of deciduous trees, something like the maple
tree. That's going to become a pinecone if we keep going but I really
would like to see trees more native to that area. That's a beautiful
area. Why can't we put trees like that in there? I would like to see
more trees, what I'm really thinking of is, now I'm going on the other
side but I'd like to see like highbush cranberry around the parking lot so
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 28
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as the cars come in. Take around Christmas time. You get a lot of
traffic and the people out on the lake and on the other side see all that
traffic. If you just had like highbush cranberry that are going to block
all the flashing of the car lights, the reflections won't go out on the
lake. I think that could help the whole area aesthetically quite a bit
and I don't think it's a whole lot of cost. Larry, for my own information
and I think this is the first time I've said this. I think I kind of
understand that type of operation that they want to put in there and
they're going to be, I think the inside of that building is going to be
very dynamic. It's going to keep growing. The lines are going to change.
They are going to be changing offices. When they start rerouting power
and there's going to be some plumbing and stuff, do they get building
permits to do all theirs or are they free to do anything they please to do
or how is that worked out?
Brown: If there are any major modifications to the building, they are
required to submit any new modifications to the building structurally,
they are required to get a building permit. As far as electrical power, I
guess it comes down to a public safety and enforcement issue. If they do
any rerouting of electricity then it should be inspected by a licensed
electrical inspector.
e
Headla: Should they
trying to do is make
into a box later on.
answers.
or do they have a master electrician do it? What I'm
sure we've got some common thoughts on it and not get
That's why I'm asking questions. I don't have the
Jeff Schmidt: One of the things, you asked the question before about the
18 foot high. One of the things we want to have in that 7 feet between
the roof and where the operations are is because of the flexibility that
we needed, you're exactly right. There is going to be changing and moving
around. We anticipate putting in a utility grid system which will allow
us to run, when we construct the building grids throughout the building so
that when we do things, we can move them effectively by just unplugging
them from here and moving them over there. We hope to, that's exactly the
thing we hope to eliminate is the major modification as we feel we can't
go into the cost or from a time standpoint to effectively do the things we
have to do.
Headla: To me, when you decided to put in a line or change a cell, that's
what you're got to do and you're not going to screw around and wait 3
months to go through it. So do we have some common thoughts or should we
develop any common guidelines so they know what's expected and you know
what they're doing and there isn't a conflict or is that established
already?
e
Brown: The guidelines and restrictions have been established through the
State Codes. I'm not real positive that it's the City's jurisdiction to
enforce that. We may get involved from a public safety standpoint but
it's all handled under, well a lot of it's handled under UBC. In that
instance the City wouldn't come involved but a lot of it just boils down
to their liability versus insurance versus something...
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 29
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Headla: So what you're saying is there really is no good mutual
understanding?
Brown: Not from a City's enforcement policy, no.
Headla: I'm not thinking so much of an enforcement itself. It's just a
good understanding of what the City can expect. I think I see rules
broken quite frequently but the company still have to get the job done and
they don't deliberately go out and abuse it but they've got to get the job
done. We've got to give them a certain amount of flexibility.
Brown: Again, we would expect them to meet all the code requirements of
the UBC and I'm sure a facility of that magnitude would be inspected
by OSHA. That's about it. There's a clear understanding of that aspect.
Headla: So you have a master electrician who understands what's required
and they can go ahead and reroute? It shouldn't be a problem?
Brown:
I certainly hope so yes.
Headla: As long as
building, okay. On
to be constructed.
going to construct
they don't really disrupte the structure of the
item 15, the watermain extension should be considered
I don't know what should be considered means. Are we
it or aren't we?
e
Brown: One of the key things that Gary was trying to get at, he was just
essentially trying to insure that Rosemount is obviously going to be
taking out a large volume of water and it's suggested here, it's not a
requirement. I believe the way he stated it, he wants it considered
putting in an additional service out here just so they have another
source. Obviously if they're going to be dependent upon that water
source, it's obviously a good idea to have more than one source. Where
you get into a little bit of the vagueness, this kind of leads into
another point. This watermain will be constructed as part of the new
Market Blvd. and that's why he's saying once the watermain exists they
should consider putting on some additional storage.
Headla: All we're saying is we recommend they look at making double
source in their water supply?
e
Brown: That's correct. That leaves the City with another problem
which I know the Rosemount staff was very interested in. Condition 13
states that the first 500 feet of sanitary sewer which parallels the
easterly property line on the site will need to be constructed by
Rosemount. I think that's misstated in the condition. It should
continue to read, if the sanitary sewer line is not completed by the Lake
Drive project versus the need that Rosemount needs that. In other words,
we're saying that the City is proposing once again along with this
watermain to construct the sanitary sewer line that runs down this
portion. Now Rosemount is very interested in using this, it's called...
right now. If we don't get to it first, then obviously Rosemount is going
to be interested in constructing that line before we get there just based
on their need and date of occupancy. Now when Gary wrote the report he
~
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 30
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was under the understanding that Rosemount was going to need that sanitary
sewer line by April 15th. Rosemount has clarified their position stating
that they will not be looking to put that sanitary sewer line in until
sometime in December of 1989 so with that in mind we're very optimistic
that we would be at that point but if we haven't got that portion
constructed due to delays or whatever, it would be Rosemount's
responsibility.
Headla: So if we stumble around and screw off then we get the bonus
because they have to put it in?
Brown: They would put it in. However, it would be either reimbursed or
credited.
Headla: Okay. They would get credit if they had to put it in?
Brown: That's correct.
Headla: Item
it went right
cooling water
cooling water
discharge is.
16. I don't understand cooling water discharge. I thought
through the other stuff. There wasn't going to be any
discharge. That scares me. As soon as we open the door on
discharge, or at least what my concept of cooling water
What did they really mean by that?
e Brown: This was one that I had a question mark by. They are going to be
recycling some of the water and I know a classic example is Instant Webb
where, because they recycle water they got the credit for that and we need
some way of verifying that. The amount of water that they are recycling
versus the amount of water that they take and Gary's point was that we
needed some way to verify the credit that they receive for recycling that
water.
Headla: Don't we have a restriction on, just by using the heat out of the
water and pouring it down the drain? That's the concept that I'm
concerned about.
Brown: As was mentioned before, all the discharge from the facility are
monitored by the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission and they have to
get a special permit for that.
Headla: We're not talking the same thing. Bob, I think one of you
understand what I'm talking about. Do you have a comment?
Jeff Schmidt: What we do in Eden prairie right now for instance is we do
take some cooling water and we do put it into the storm sewer and we do
get credits on our sanitary sewer charge for that and we meter that
useage. It is not our plan at this particular site to put that water, we
plan an internal use for recycling our water in this particular project.
e
Hoisington: All it appears that she's asking for in this case Dave is
some documentation that they're doing that so they get the proper credits
for whatever...
Planning Commission Meeting
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Headla: That's what they're really asking for is the documentation...
Hoisington: When this first started we were talking about pumping it in
the sanitary and storm sewer. What we concluded was that that didn't make
any sense. In the long haul they should keep it and reuse it.
Headla: Fine. Okay, 17 I had the same thing as Brian. It's just going
to be a one time charge right? Okay. That's all I have.
e
Conrad: A couple thoughts. Larry, I want you to make sure that you
verify that lakeshore owners were notified and report to the City Council
that they were or were not. In terms of screening on the lake, in terms
of building elevation. with the trees that are left standing on the hill,
does that screen the building from the residents on the other side? Any
answers? The residents have always been terribly concerned about that and
I am too. It's a big building and I want to break it up visually. I'm
also concerned about screening of the parking lot on the lake too. We
don't have standards but in this case I think we have to take a look at
how we're going to screen the parking lot. When somebody tells me that a
berm is going to take care of it, that's fine. A berm can do it, a hedge,
but we're got a big parking lot over there and we have to have the
appropriate screening from the lake. Larry I want to find somebody in the
planning staff who may still be working for the City that can report to
the City Council what the impact of that parking lot is in terms of how
massive the impervious surface is and whether we have broken it up
effectively through the use of green islands. I understand what our
friends from Opus are saying about snow plowing and I don't want to
inhibit that. On the other hand, this is the biggest parking lot in the
city and we've always been, the planning staff has always been concerned
about breaking up. We're breaking up little lots with 12 cars in it.
Here we have 500 cars on one side and maybe it's okay. Nobody's talked to
me about it.
Hoisington: I'm not sure it is and I don't think Jo Ann is saying it's
okay. What she's saying is there still needs to be some work done.
Conrad: And that brings up my next point. There's so much work that
needs to be done, it's a question. This is fast track stuff folks but I
don't know if you know what you're going to be approving if this goes out
of here because it's all referring to something else or something in the
future. There are some things that I think we've seen that make sense but
I don't want to send the City Council the message that we've reviewed
everything because we really haven't reviewed much of what this plan is
about. We haven't found many problems with it but we haven't looked at it
or we haven't had a lot of staff input because we're on this so called
fast track. I haven't seen the Park and Rec report which we typically do.
Therefore, I personally feel comfortable forwarding it on but I personally
am not going to make a recommendation on it because I don't know what I'm
making a recommendation on other than let's move this on.
e
Headla: Let me comment on that. First of all, I think I comprehend the
size of this parking lot of the building because based on the soil
engineer's report, the parking lot I'm not really concerned. It's
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 32
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identical to the one that I'm used to in the city. I feel comfortable
with this whole thing and the reason I feel comfortable and budgets are
working and I go by feel. I think there's a good flavor. I think the
City's trying to help and I think they are dealing in good faith with us
and when you can work it mutually, I think it's an experiment but when we
can work it mutually and keep it going as fast as it can, it's money in
their pocket. It's to their advantage to... I think we can keep friendly
with this. ...then you've got to take a look at it but for right now I
have a comfortable feeling on this.
Conrad: I have no doubt. I think it's a good project and when you work
with quality people and quality projects they typically go on pretty well.
I think I like Bob working with the folks in the neighborhood because it
works far more effectively on your level than it does once it gets into
the City's hands so I like what I'm hearing Dave. I'm just not
comfortable sending the signal to City Council saying hey, this is all
perfect. I want them to review this critically as if we typically do.
When we say we like it, we are saying we have critically gone through
every point and the City Council should feel pretty comfortable. Whether
they do or not is a debate but when we say from a planning standpoint we
like everything about this plan, I can't send that message. I want them
to be as critical as I normally would be at their level.
e
Headla:
We could send them that message though.
Conrad: I'm just opening up that point.
Emmings: Annette and I were kind of talking about the same thing. This
project is so different in scope than what we usually deal with, it's
almost a different kind. When you think about how we look at the mini-
golf or the driving range down here, we were much fussier about that than
we are about this enormous facility. We went into that in a lot greater
detail and that's ridiculous but I think you almost have to treat this
differently. I think you do have to go with kind of a feeling, an overall
feeling of whether or not you think you like the, you almost treat it more
conceptually than in detail and you almost have to trust the staff on one
this big when we're trying to move it through the way we're moving it
through. That they are going to work out the technical details. I'm
willing to do that on this one but I kind of...what I hear from Ladd and I
think maybe it's worth considering doing is just saying we're comfortable
with this thing conceptually. You guys with the staff, take our comments
into consideration and we're generally for it conceptually but we're not
going to tell you that we think that these are the set conditions that
ought to be applied to this.
Headla: I don't think we should manage to that detail. Let staff.
Conrad: But staff hasn't done it yet.
e Emmings: Normally we do do that.
Conrad: Yes, normally we do manage to what staff tells us. When they
review it, we review what they've done. Right now they haven't done it.
Planning Commission Meeting
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Emmings: But this one is a little overwhelming in that regard and I don't
want to hang it up here. The choice seems to me is to table it until
there is a firm concrete plan. I don't want to do that. I don't want to
hang them up here. I'd rather let the City Council do that work on this
one.
Conrad: Absolutely.
Headla: One question I did have. Is there any type of fire fighting
equipment needed for this building... Just wait, next year the capital
improvement fund.
Conrad:
Is there a motion?
Headla: Let's talk a little bit about it. I like the concept and I'm
thinking about next year already but talking about a motion a little bit
first. I think that helps us maybe get out a little bit better motion
although we've got a pro over at the end who can usually word it quite
thoroughly. How do you people feel about ...maybe from the actual
standards that the City set for trying to get more of the native
vegetation of trees and shrubs on sites like this? Do you think we should
try to fool around with that at all?
e Conrad: I think that's a suggestion at this point in time that we can
make. We don't have a standard so if Rosemount wants to put in certain
select trees and vegetation, they can do that but that's something they
negotiate with the City. I think you can make it as a recommendation that
they strongly consider some native vegetation but what I suggest to you
and you've mentioned this many times and we don't have any planning staff
to implement anything right now but I sure hope that we could get some
standards put in there in terms of how we want new developers to put in
the vegetation that we're requiring. The landscaping plan should have
some direction at least, some guidelines out there.
Headla: There's got to be guidelines.
Conrad: Yes, there's got to be guidelines and it shouldn't be a surprise
and staff should have talked to the developer before they get here about
that and it's not us saying we want 2 more maple trees. It's staff saying
these are our standards and we'd kind of like you to do this type of
greenery or deciduous trees. They should be working with the developer.
Typically they'll do it but we don't have those standards right now and
we're not going to until we get planning staff.
Headla: Let me make a motion then that we recommend approval of #88-15
with the 25 conditions listed by the staff and item 13, Larry you had some
wording there. You felt it should be a little bit different.
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Brown: If anyone has any way of shortening it up, I'll certainly be open
for suggestions.
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 34
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Batzli: How about if we add at the end after the word Rosemount, in the
event that the same has not been constructed by the City when required by
the applicant?
Headla: So moved.
ElIson: He thought of the Wetland Alteration Permit one.
Emmings: Just that they comply with all the conditions of the Wetland
Alteration Permit.
Headla: Yes, you provided that in. I think we ought to tie that in.
We're talking item 26. Then 27, I'd like to see something worded that the
staff work with Rosemount on seeing if we can develop more native
vegetation, trees and shrubs on this site. I think we covered all the
other ones didn't we? I think that's it.
Batzli: I'd like to propose a number 28. Something to do with the Park
and Rec Committee recommendation.
ElIson: Some sort of compliance with whatever they're recommending?
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Batzli: Yes, well I'd like to know what it is. I hate to impose
something that they're going to dedicate half the site to a park or
something but at least somehow or another that it gets in here.
Headla: It complies with the Park and Rec recommendations?
Emmings: I think it's already been taken care of but you could I suppose
you could just say comply with all the Park and Rec recommendations, if
any.
Batzli: I'd buy that. The applicant shall comply with Park and
Recreation recommendations, if any. Just take the words out of your
mouth.
Conrad: Do you want to include that in your motion Dave?
Headla: Yes.
Batzli: Did you want to include something about screening the parking
lot?
Conrad: We could. We should. If you don't, I will.
Batzli: Somewhere in here there was a clause already that revised plans
shall be submitted. I know that one of them, here we go, clause 6. Shall
provide an amended landscaping plan which meets the requirements of
Article xxv. I guess I'd like to insert another sentence in condition 6
that says, the applicant will work with city staff to provide appropriate
screening for the parking areas from the lake and surrounding homes.
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Conrad:
Is that acceptable?
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1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 35
Headla: Yes.
Headla moved, ElIson seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of site Plan Review #88-15 as shown on the site plan stamped
"Received October 14, 1988" and subject to the following conditions:
Option B entry road shall be used rather than the Option A entry road.
The location of trash receptacles shall be provided on an amended site
plan and they shall be totally screened.
The parking lot shall maintain a 75 foot setback from the finished
edge of the Class B wetland.
The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Fire Inspector as
stated in his memo dated October 17, 1988.
The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Building Department as
stated in his memo dated September 26, 1988.
The applicant shall provide an amended landscaping plan which meets
the requirements of the Article xxv. The applicant will work with
city staff to provide appropriate screening for the parking areas from
the lake and surrounding homes.
7. The applicant shall preserve a 75 foot setback around the Class A
wetland.
8. The applicant shall preserve at least 50% of the land around the Class
B wetland in its natural state.
9. The applicant shall provide a tree removal plan designating the type,
size and number of any trees being removed which have a 4 inch caliper
or more at 4 feet.
10. The applicant shall provide additional screening north of the proposed
dock areas.
11. Revised plans shall be submitted for approval addressing the
conditions contained in the staff reports and including sufficient
detail necessary for review and approval. An erosion control plan
shall be included in the submittals as well.
12. Site grading along the Lake Drive and Market Boulevard roadways shall
be adjusted to coincide with finished roadway contours.
13.
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The first 500 feet of sanitary sewer which parallels the easterly
property line on the site will need to be constructed by Rosemount in
the event that the same has not been constructed by the City when
required by the applicant. A 35 foot easement shall be dedicated
along the entire length of the proposed sanitary sewer stretch when
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 36
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its alignment has been established by the feasibility study.
14. A 35 foot utility easement shall also be dedicated along the westerly
lot line of the site along the alignment of the sanitary sewer as
established by the feasibility study.
15. A watermain extension should be considered to be constructed along the
alignment of the southeast sanitary sewer service connection to
provide further redundancy to the Rosemount site with an ultimate
hookup to the city's watermain on future Market Boulevard.
16. The internal piping scheme for the building should address the need
for documentation of recycled or cooling water discharge in order that
proper sanitary sewer credits can be identified if appropriate.
17. The applicant shall be responsible for reimbursing the City for
utilizing its ponding facilities to accommodate any storm water, less
than the 100 year predevelopment runoff rate, which is not being
accommodated on site.
18. The on site ponding and storm drainage scheme needs to be coordinated
with the feasibility study alignment of the Lake Drive storm sewer
system.
e 19. The wetland impacts due to roof drainage and/or backup from the storm
water retention pond need to be identified and appropriate measures
taken to satisfy any anticipated pollutant and/or nutrient loading
impacts.
20. The alignment and right-of-way dedicated for Lake Drive shall be
sufficient enough to accommodate a 35 mile per hour design speed
unless otherwise approved by the City Engineer.
21. A 36 foot entry drive shall be used for any roads which will
experience truck traffic on a regular basis. As a minimum, the main
access (central) roadway should be 36 foot.
22. A typical section for the roadways shall be suplied for approval by
the City Engineer and concrete curb and gutter shall be provided
through the site including parking lot areas.
23. The Option A entry road located between the wetland and detention pond
shall be omitted and the Option B entry connection shall be located to
directly oppose the future planned connection of Lake Drive East from
the Ward property at Market Boulevard, to be established in the Lake
Drive feasibility study.
24. The plans should address the proper movement of pedestrian traffic
around the exterior of the building and on the site.
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25.
The applicant will need to enter into a development contract with the
City to guarantee the proper execution of the final approved plans and
specifications for the site and provide the City with an appropriate
Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 37
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financial security.
26. Comply with all conditions of the Wetland Alteration Permit.
27. Staff work with Rosemount to try to develop more native vegetation,
trees and shrubs on this site.
28. Comply with all Park and Recreation recommendations, if any.
All voted in favor except Emmings and Conrad who opposed and the motion
carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
Conrad: And Steve your reason?
Emmings: I'm against approving it for the reasons we discussed before. I
favor the plan. I don't think we've gone into the conditions in enough
depth or enough specificity to approve this and have the City Council
think that we have looked at it to what the necessary specificity. I am
in favor of the plan conceptually. I'm comfortable with it and I think it
should be dealt with by the City Council once the technical aspects are
worked out between Rosemount and City Staff.
_ Conrad: That's exactly my position. I agree in concept but don't have
enough information to agree as we typically do in terms of making this
recommendation. So conceptually I am in favor of what we saw tonight but
definitely want the City Council to review it critically as if they were
the planning commission when it got to their level. The other comments at
that point in time, the Park and Rec report should be there. Just
reinforcing what the motion said but I'n interested in a staff report.
I'm concerned with the parking lot and the massiveness. I'm concerned
with the fact whether the lakeshore owners were notified for the public
hearing and I'm concerned that screening of the building and the parking
lot be reviewed by staff. I think those additional concerns of mine
should certainly be met by the time this gets to City Council.
Headla: I was going to try to get in something after that covering just
such stuff.
Conrad: You voted for.
Headla: I still think it's good but I was going to...that and then saying
in postscript attached with the recommendation to the Council essentially
saying the same thing. We're working this on the run, floating target.
Everything isn't absolute.
Conrad: It will all come out in the Minutes. They understand.
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Bob Worthing: First of all thank you for allowing us to move ahead. We
understand your concerns. We think they're legitimate. The conflict that
we think we can resolve all of the 28-30 issues that have come up in the
timeframe that we've given to the plan...under construction for this
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 2, 1988 - Page 38
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facility. The only thing we'd like to request is perhaps the stipulations
that have been stated, I would ask the staff to have those available to us
as quickly as possible if this plan is to evolve. We go to the City
Council meeting on the 14th. There's a lot of things that you have
conerns about... So to a certain extent I thank you for the trust...
Emmings: Even our negative vote was a one of trust.
Conrad: I really do want to make sure that you're covering these issues
with your neighbors because I don't want any surprises with that group
because they will put a wrench in if we don't talk to them. It's so much
easier when we do it on your terms. If you've done that and we sent out
our public hearing notices, than we've done our job for the neighborhood
to get their input in the development of this land. The comments that you
heard from me were directly related to what I heard them. The last time
projects carne through on this land, we had elevations prepared so we knew
exactly how high the trees were. Where they were. How much higher the
building projected above the trees. They were extremely concerned so if
they're not concerned anymore, I think that's terrific. I just am kind of
skeptical that they're not concerned. I don't know what changed their
minds so continue working with them and that will resolve a lot of
problems downstream.
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Hoisington: Ladd, just a comment. I just hope and request that the
Minutes of this meeting indicate that there is a unanimous support in
concept for the Rosemount proposal. I don't want to confuse the Council
on this.
Conrad: I think Steve worded his comments clearly. I couldn't word mine
any more clearly Fred. All we're doing is passing this along to City
Council. They can review it. What I didn't want to indicate is that we
reviewed it in the detail that we normally review it in. We didn't and
that carne across 10 times in what we said. It's sort of a disclaimer on
our part. We just don't want to deceive them by saying that we've
reviewed everything because it's not here. I think our comments reflect
that and our comments reflect that this looks like a good proposal. We
like it.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Batzli moved, Ellson seconded to approve the Minutes
of the Planning Commission meeting dated October 19, 1988 as presented.
All voted in favor except Headla who abstained and the motion carried.
Headla moved, Emmings seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m..
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Submitted by Jo Ann Olsen
Asst. City planner
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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