CC Minutes 3-20-06
City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
taxed for fire fighters, it's a good opportunity that we can get some additional manpower just by
calling mutual aid, so we sent out thank you letters to those departments thanking them for the
mutual aid. We will be working with the Lions Club for our annual pancake breakfast and we
should be advertising that date when we get a concrete date on it. That's another opportunity for
us to meet with the city and stuff and people out there on a better time, much like our open house
so we enjoy that. I'd also like to publicly recognize Dale Gregory from our fire department, and
I know there was some information in the council packet there and I'd also like to thank the City
Manager for a letter recognizing Dale. Dale's made it a milestone. He's been on our department
for 35 years now. He hasn't told us he's retiring yet so we don't know how long it's going to
continue but Dale's one of our department members there, battalion chief and he does get up for
all the middle of the night calls and has for 35 years and so, being the department's less than 40
years old, it's sure neat to have somebody around that long and we will be giving him a plaque at
our annual banquet but I did want to recognize him publicly for that.
Todd Gerhardt: You're going to give one to Roseanne too, right?
Chief Gregg Geske: Right. Personally we don't recognize that as part of our banquet, though
we do recognize the spouse... Another thing I'd like to bring up, we've become more involved
in our juvenile fire center's program, which is a program that's put on here at Carver County and
Chaska has hosted it and we're starting to get more involved and we're rewriting it and any time
there is a juvenile in the city that is found to have a fire setting problem through the court system,
we have to provide a night for them basically to go through and kind of show them what's
involved and the bad things on the fire and such and become more involved in that so. That's it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any questions for the Chief? No? Very good. Thank you. Appreciate
your servIce.
HALLA GREENS. (AKA CHANHASSEN SHORT COURSE). LOCATED ON THE
SOUTHEAST CORNER OF GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD AND PIONEER TRAIL.
APPLICANT JOHN KOSMAS: REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN AMENDMENT AND
VARIANCES FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A GOLF COURSE.
Public Present:
Name
Address
David & Sharon Gatto
Dave Wondra
Judy & Dave Walstad
Don & Sandy Halla
Jeffrey S.
Tom Gertz
9631 Foxford Road
9590 Foxford Road
10071 Great Plains Boulevard
6601 Mohawk Trail, Edina
9900 Deerbrook Dri ve
10001 Great Plains Boulevard
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor. At our last meeting, one week ago tonight we went through
the conditional use. As you recall this application was given a conditional use. The applicant,
Mr. Halla wanted to expand the conditional use. The question that came up was, minimum,
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
maximum sort of issues so the council gave, based on public input, direction for the staff to work
with Mr. Halla to resolve some of those issues. In the cover letter to you was a summary based
on the minutes of the staff report with the direction that you wanted us to work with, and Mr.
Halla has agreed to those conditions, and what I'd like to do is just go through those summary.
...first regarding the club house, and it's change in configuration with the original conditional, 40
by 60 to 40 by 66. We're comfortable with that, the staff is. Outdoor seating area, again that's a
little bit larger. 10 by 60. Square footage wise pretty similar. It was 13.4 by 40. Again that
would be the veranda on either side. The maintenance building was one of the big issues.
.. . significant decrease so the original application was 30 by 60. Now we're down to 34 by 60,
and we do have a list of everything that's going in that building, that has been submitted, and
there's also drawings on the application if you have specific questions about it, otherwise I won't
go through all that, but that has been reduced to minimize that. Again there was never a ball
washing machine. That we did agree to, the 10 by, the 10 by 10. And that's over here. That's
the accessory building, and again there's a pop machine and a ball washing machine in that
building. The shelter building, that was the teaching building, that's further behind the club
house itself. Again that's a teaching facility. Kind of took a neutral position on that. We didn't
see that as a big issue. It's pretty far away from the residents. Lighting is still an issue. And that
I'll go through in just a minute. The temporary structure was originally none proposed. Again
because they want to get, be able to use it, that, while under construction, be able to, people to
use the facility. Get balls. Check in, that sort of thing, that they wanted the opportunity. We did
put specific conditions. I have modified those in front of you. The language on the cover memo
of your staff report is correct. It didn't get corrected in the conditions which is, would be
condition number 5 regarding that because what we redirected the staff to do, is to make sure that
that temporary building didn't become permanent so there's so much time specific to the
Certificate of Occupancy that temporary building would have to be removed. So that's reflected
in condition number 5. Then the building materials, originally was wood. I showed that last
time. The applicant wanted to do the metal. Now they've agreed to the vinyl siding, and again
that's this building which has been down sized. And then the house of operation, sunlight to
sunset, and there was some ambiguity on that, so we changed that, the condition on that reads
civil sunrise to nautical sunset. And I just wanted to add, there was a comment or question
regarding, someone asked me last time regarding nuisance ordinance so we wanted to refer to
that. In the nuisance ordinance regarding hourly restrictions, there is one that talks about lawn
mowing for domestic purposes but there are some exemptions and that's specifically for snow
removal or outdoor recreation, which is in staff's opinion, this is outdoor recreation so a lawn
mowing wouldn't be restricted to those times, which would be the civil sunrise and nautical
sunset, so just to be clear on that interpretation. Then I'll just take a minute, I think one of the
other issues was the lighting and Ijust wanted to go through that. I know it's a little bit hard to
see but the staff did meet with Sergeant Olson and Beth Hoiseth, the Crime Prevention Specialist
just to review kind of the safety issues. Again for clarification on number 9, we did clarify that
there will be soffit lighting on the building. Again because.. . safety issues was if this is the, can
you zoom in there a little bit Nann. There will be soffit lighting underneath this building, and to
be clear it was our intent that that lighting would be left on. It's just downcast. It's not that tall.
It shouldn't, there shouldn't be a lot of spill over lighting. Then we have both sides of the
building, and then there would also be some lighting that would stay on, on the back of the
maintenance building, which is over in this area over here.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Mayor Furlong: So just for clarification, what's the back of the maintenance area, to the south or
the north?
Kate Aanenson: I'm sorry, this would be facing Pioneer Trail.
Mayor Furlong: So you have soffit lights on the north and the south exposure.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: And underneath and just shining down, so they just light down.
Kate Aanenson: And there would also be some lighting here.
Mayor Furlong: On the west. On the maintenance.
Kate Aanenson: To the west.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Kate Aanenson: And then this side is, from this building line is about 380 feet to the property
line, and on the north side, from the side lot, it's a couple hundred feet. So in looking at the, for
someone coming in there early and late, for maybe somebody vacuuming, cleaning, setting up,
that would be longer hours. And then for protection again our interest is health, safety and there
would be an opportunity that they have safe access to the building. So those lights would stay all
the time. So the other issue that was lighting of the parking lot, and again this is, the property,
the lights stop at the parking lot. You've got another 100, this is about 15 feet wide. You've got
120 feet to the property line, but the lights go to zero at the edge of the property line, so what we
looked at is that we had the 3 lights in there, only one light would be left on at night and that
would provide some light. If you were to shut them off, or use the 4 foot. The 4 foot only gives
light right underneath and this whole back side of the parking 10L.you'd have no lighting in the
back part of the parking lot. And more than likely there'd be employees that probably would
park the furthest away so just discussing this again with the people that are more, know more
about this issue, that we were a little concerned about that. Just about the safety aspect. Could
you put more 4 foot lights? You can see there's a lot more lights with that, so that was just our
issue of concern. It can be lit with 4 foot. There'd be a lot more of them. Again the concern
was just, if people are there longer than after, whether it's workers or someone a half hour past, it
could be dark. So there's two ways to address it, whether it's the 4 foot or just hitting the one 15
foot one now which was our recommendation based on...
Mayor Furlong: So does staff have a recommendation regarding to lighting plans?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, it's in the staffreport and that was that the 15 foot, 3 of those, the 15 foot
light fixtures, excuse me, and then these 2. And then everything would be dark as you get to that
time except for the one... which would provide some brighter light.
Councilman Peterson: The rest of them on Option 2.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Kate Aanenson: Excuse me, that would be these.
Councilman Peterson: So you're talking five 15 footers and the rest of them 4 footers.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Councilman Peterson: And then on this other one, really the only light you're getting with a 4
foot is right at that spot. It's not getting you any residual light to look at the photometries, so it
provides lighting right at that spot but it's really not serving the purpose of providing that
security portion of it, and that was our concern so you'd have to add quite a few more lights.
Councilman Peterson: Kate, if this was a residential neighborhood, what's our standard for street
lighting now if it was residential across the street?
Kate Aanenson: They'd be taller and they'd be every, at least every 300 feet. And then if they
were like, that would be on the street side. If this was a church, which would be permitted in this
district, we would certainly have something taller too.
Councilman Peterson: Is our standard now 25 or whatever it is? I have no idea.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Do we have 25 in our neighborhoods?
Kate Aanenson: The corten steeL..
Mayor Furlong: The four sided ones. Are those?
Kate Aanenson: The street lights?
Mayor Furlong: How tall are the street lights? You know the four sided light. Basically those
shine out. These are shining down, but those shine out. How tall are they?
Todd Gerhardt: I'd say 15 feet.
Mayor Furlong: 15 probably?
Kate Aanenson: 20, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, okay.
Kate Aanenson: And those are typical. I just wanted to point out for you, whatever your
recommendation is, just some of the concerns that we wanted to share with you that we do have
some dark areas and we just, for people that have cars parked there and have to go to a dark car.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, anything else?
Kate Aanenson: So with that I did give you revised conditions. We are recommending approval
with the conditional use and the site plan as modified and then the findings of fact are also in the
staff report.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the sheet that we have here, just for clarification, is that different
than what was in the electronic packet?
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: And which was it, 5?
Kate Aanenson: I believe page 4 and page 5 and then there's conditions of approval.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Okay. The only difference here on page 4 was condition 5?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. And then also on the site plan, we're.. . number 9. We just wanted to
clarify.
Mayor Furlong: I see the 100 square feet.
Kate Aanenson: Well that's the soffit lighting on number 9 on the conditional use.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: Just for clarity. Just so everybody understands...
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Any questions for staff at this time? No? Okay. Is
the applicant here? Anything that you'd like to share at this time?
Erik Olson: Good evening Mayor, council members.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Erik Olson: My name is Erik Olson. I reside at 9505 Delphinium Lane in Chaska. Sorry, in
Chanhassen and also the manager of Halla Greens and I just wanted to basically come up here
and thank city staff and the council in particular too just to let us have another week to kind of
try to come up with some solutions to some of the problems that we've had. We worked really
hard to come up with something that you know I think everybody, you know is it ideal for us,
everything that we wanted? No. But I think we've made some good compromises on both sides
and I'd just like to say one thing about the parking lot lights. As I mentioned at the last council
meeting, in talking with the neighbors, you know we would prefer not to put in parking lot lights,
just to make the neighborhood happy, but I do realize there are a lot of safety issues involved in
that so, whatever the council decides on that issue, we'll be glad to do. Just wanted to say thanks
so if there's any questions, I'll try to answer them.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for Mr. Olson? No? Very good, thank you for your efforts this
last week. I don't know if there are members of the public. We took public comment last time.
I don't, I mean at most maybe 5 minutes if there's some comments that need to be made. Really
just focusing on any changes that took place between the meetings, so at this time I invite
anybody. And that'd be 5 minutes in aggregate, not 20 people for 5 minutes each if we can. So
good evening.
Dave Gatto: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council. Dave Gatto. I reside at 9631 Foxford Road
here in Chanhassen. I'm representing 37 people that live just north of the golf course. We met
with the Halla people and had, we're proud to say that I guess now we're here to speak on the
project in a positive manner about the golf course. We agree with, and so really the only thing
that we're at issue with now with the city, like Mr. Olson just said was that we agree with Halla
in that we don't want any parking lot lights. Halla and I talked for a while, actually Mr. Olson
and I talked for a while and talked about some indirect landscape highlights and those kinds of
things which I'm sure these folks can do very well since they own a nursery and they own a lot
of nice plantings. We're in favor of those kinds of lights. We're not in favor of any home spot
lights. We feel like the city was in error when they awarded the first conditional use permit.
They told the residents and the rest of the city that they'd have safety lights and those lights
would be on the buildings. It seems as though they provided for that tonight. Talking about
soffit lights and keeping them on all night, so thank you very much for your time.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anybody else who would like to provide any comment?
Tom Gertz: Mayor, council persons. My name is Tom Gertz. I reside at 10001 Great Plains
Boulevard, directly across from Halla Nursery. Adjacent to the golf course on the southern side.
This is my third appearance on this issue. I'll be brief. Most of the issues from the origin of this
plan til now have been mitigated. I'm comfortable with most of them. The one issue that I still
have some concern over is the change in extended hours of operation. My dwelling is 100 feet
or less directly across from the golf course. If I can maybe get a definition of the change in
hours and what that actually means in sunrise and sunset and when mowers will be allowed to
operate and heavy machinery. That would help some. And my concern is, it really just comes
down to quality of life issue. If I had my windows open in the summer and I'm sleeping and if
mowers are going at, before sunrise, how does that not impact me. I had mentioned the original
ordinance for noise conditions and one for to help avoid those kind of nuisance conditions and if
this is an extremely early operation allowed to go on, I don't know how you get around that.
And there's other homes that are close too so. I have talked with Erik about it and I don't know
if he could come up with a plan at this point but that's a consideration. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Ms. Aanenson, real quick on the staff's recommendation now for
hours of operation.
Kate Aanenson: Our recommendation is to follow the city code, which for nuisance the
extension would be outdoor recreational uses, so that's, there is no limitation on that.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Mayor Furlong: So the limitation will only, for a typical citizen is 7:00 to 9:00 but that would
not apply here because of the use of the property, which is.
Kate Aanenson: It's not a domestic use and it would be a recreational type use.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So then lawn mowing and such would be available during the hours of
operation?
Kate Aanenson: More than likely I would assume, and you can ask the applicant that there be
light so you could see, which is probably similar to.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. The current recommendation is a half hour basically before
sunrise and a half hour after sunset.
Councilman Peterson: I think it was sunrise, at sunrise and then a half hour after sunset.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So therefore you could mow that half hour if you wanted.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: After sunset.
Kate Aanenson: Or before, correct.
Mayor Furlong: We need some clarification.
Kate Aanenson: Right, if you look at the conditions for the hours, it says sunrise. We did pull
out.. . obviously you'd have the longest days so if you were to look at sunrise in the summer, it be
as early as 5:30 in the morning.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I would like to ask the applicant what their plans are.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Olson.
Erik Olson: Your questions about what time we'd be starting mowing in the morning? It's
going to vary every morning and you know as Tom mentioned earlier, we have talked it over and
basically if it ever does become a problem, my number's the first number that he's going to be
calling and then Tom, myself and our superintendent will basically sit down and try to work
something out where it doesn't become a quality of life issue for him. But typically to answer
the question about starting in the morning, as soon as we can see, when the sun comes up, we'll
be out there mowing the greens. Greens probably take about 5 minutes to mow, and that's really
the only thing that's mowed every single day. Greens and tee boxes.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Now is there a pattern that you can take where you hit the non-
residential areas?
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
Erik Olson: Yeah, we've started basically start on the first hole, because you want to get out in
front of the golfers themselves so you go 1,2,3, and just follow it in line. Tom's house is over
on number 6. Number 6 green, so if we're mowing at 6:00, you know you figure maybe we'd be
over there around 6:30.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And for how long? You said like 5 minutes?
Erik Olson: 5 minutes and then we're off to the next hole. And I mean it's not a, it's actually
quieter than a residential lawn mower.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So as long as he does have your number so if it's at 5:00 in the
morning, you'll be getting a call.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Peterson: Because we know they all have our numbers.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, anybody else? Sir.
Dave Walstad: Thank you. My name's Dave Walstad. I'm at 10071 Great Plains Boulevard.
Just south of the golf course and I have two questions. Two real quick questions. First of all I'm
unclear about the lighting plans that were brought up. There were two options. The second one
shows 15 foot lights. Okay. I guess my questions are, with the lights down by the driving range,
I'm not exactly sure if we're talking 15 foot lights in the parking lot and then this plan too
involves also putting 15 foot lights in the back side. So we're talking about combining these
two together? Okay. Okay, thank you. Except, I'm sorry.
Kate Aanenson: Except the parking lot.
Councilman Peterson: Four foot lights everywhere but the 5 in the parking lot.
Dave Walstad: Thank you. And the second part was just maybe if you all can just clarify. The
sunrisesunset.com which was the web site mentioned. I did actually go on there today and I did
print off timeframes and the longest time would be June of course. June sunrise for a majority of
the month is between 5:25 a.m. to 5:30 a.m. and sunset is around, a little after 9:00. So again
that was one of the questions I had emailed the Mayor. Thank you for responding to me on that.
Was asking about whether or not they'd be mowing at that early, and yes I appreciate them
working with us and I know Erik had called me and I hadn't had the opportunity to call him
back, but I do appreciate the contact there. And I guess what I'm hearing then is that, since they
don't have a noise ordinance regarding this, that you have to get a complaint issue handled at that
time.
Kate Aanenson: Well if it's permitted, it's more, I want to be clear on this. It's more a good
neighbor sort of thing because the conditional use, there's only certain things that we can
regulate. And unless they in good faith say they want to do that, the ordinance does allow them
under a recreational again use to mow anytime they want. That's, we're asking them to say, can
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
you be a good neighbor and be respectful of. What they said is, what I heard them say is, that's
the first thing they want to do is try to help them out. Nobody wants... but I want to be clear that
that's what the ordinance, what they could do. It's not a conditional use issue. It's a question of
a variance that we put on to restrict it. That's kind of, I guess how we kind of got to this. The
first applicant was under the conditional use, but underneath the status, if we go back to that
minimum and maximum, that first applicant went to the minimum. The next one went to the
maximum. Uses change and get added on all the time and as long as you're exceeding the
maximum, they can do that. Now in good faith to work with the neighbors to try to go back to
the original condition for the size and.. .I'm just trying to make this clear that so we're now
getting calls, that what the expectation is and that's why we're asking the applicant so everybody
has a clear expectation of how it's going to operate. So what I heard them say is that they're
going to try to minimize that conflict of the noise, but you're right. In the summer it's early.
That month of June it's going to be before, so I would hope that they would take that into
consideration and be a good neighbor so they're not getting all those calls from the neighbors. If
I wasn't clear, I don't know what I could do.
Todd Gerhardt: Just to add on to what Kate is saying, We surveyed some of our other
operations, driving ranges and it's sunrise to sunset is how they operate, and you know if they're
going to compete against those people, they have to be on equal playing ground. For us to say
you can't operate from 7:00 to 9:00, that doesn't put them on an equal playing ground so, that's
how come staff recommended the sunrise to half hour after sunset.
Kate Aanenson: And Ijust want to be clear, so if you call me and say they're violating
something, unless I couldn't cite them on anything. That's what we rely on...to say are they
violating an ordinance because if that's what the ordinance says...
Dave Walstad: Appreciate everybody's time here. I know this has been before the council
several times. Planning Commission has been very helpful working with the neighbors and just
glad to see that everyone here is again concerned about the neighborhood, which is what we
wanted in the first place so, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you everybody for your comments. I appreciate
that. Any follow up questions at this point for maybe either some of the council members
discussion but any follow up questions for staff or for the applicant? No? Why don't we open it
up for council discussion then at this point. Thoughts. Comments on what we saw last week
versus this week or.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well okay I'll jump in. Obviously it's a vast improvement from
what we saw last week. I think Mr. Halla and company did a good job of making concessions
and working with the neighbors and the city in trying to make this originally what it was
supposed to be, and so that was my most important, or my priority was to make sure that what
came before the Planning Commission and City Council 2 years ago, 3 years ago was the same
thing that we were looking at today, and I think it's pretty close to what it is, so I'm satisfied
with what's happened and I think it will be a good asset to your neighborhood once it gets start
working. The shelter building, that to me I guess is one of those things I guess I have to have an
opinion about it but Ijust don't think it's going to impact necessarily the community or the
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
neighborhood and that's what I'm most concerned about is making sure that the golf course is a
good neighbor and the neighbors are good neighbors for the golf course, and so the shelter
building isn't going to really change anyone's life so, I'm willing to concede to keep it or not to
keep it. Ijust don't think it's a big deal. Lighting, I want to keep that to safety. You know we
have to take care of the people that are working there, and that are using the golf course but I
also realize that you have to be once again courteous to the people that were there first, and so I
am all for anything that is going to give the neighborhood the least impact.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Peterson, thoughts.
Councilman Peterson: Mr. Mayor, I too, I think the shelter building is fine. I think it's a
reasonable request and certainly isn't onerous. I think if you can make the environment better
out there and safer, let's certainly do that. All the other things that staff is recommending, I
certainly agree with. The lighting I guess is the only one that's probably up for further
consideration. I think that my perspective on that is, I do think we need some increased lighting
in the parking lot. If you look at the 15 foot lighting that we have out in different areas of the
city, as everybody's leaving look up in City Center Park. There's 15 foot lights there that are
essentially down lighting that doesn't wash anything but a greater area than a 4 footer. I don't
find those onerous and certainly you can't see them for outside of a few feet away from them, so
if we did 5 of those, it seems like a reasonable request that staff is making. I would support that.
Again in the effort of maintaining safety and reasonableness. I mean we also have to, we light
parking lots and that's what we do as a city for all the right reasons and this certainly shouldn't
be one we shouldn't light, and I think this lighting is better than building lighting that would
have been spot lights shining down. It would have been certainly more than ambient soffit
lighting if we went with the original proposal, so I think that's important to note. So I think the
combination of the five 15 footers and multiple 4 footers, landscaping I think will meet the city's
needs and I think meet the neighbors needs once they see what a 15 foot down lighting, which is
not a globe lighting. It's a down lighting wash that just washes a bigger area, so I think that I'm
confident that the neighbors will be amenable to that once they see it. So to that end I would
support staff's position of Option 2. I think that addresses all of the issues Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. My thoughts are similar. What a difference a week makes
and I commend the applicant and the neighbors for getting together and working together and for
staff, for their efforts here these last few days. I think what has transpired here is, last week we
were talking about trying as a council to come up with is it reasonable or not what was being
requested. I think there was some hesitancy on some of the items but I clearly believe that with
the changes that are being presented in the staff report here this evening, with the size of the
buildings and their intended use, I think it clearly in my mind meets the level of reasonableness
in terms of use for a golf course. Golf course is a permitted in this zoning, just as there are some
other uses and the property owner has a right within the zoning laws to operate and so I think
there is some flexibility, or we've seen it this week and I commend everybody for being a part of
that. The specifics on the shelter building, it was listed as optional and as such. I'm fine with
that as well. I think Councilman Peterson and Councilwoman Tjomhom agreed. That was never
a big issue. I thin it was just part of everything else that was causing a problem so with what's
being proposed here this evening with regard to the maintenance and the ball washing building
and the club house, I'm comfortable allowing them to go forward with what they proposed on
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
the shelter building and into the location they proposed it down along the driving range. The
lights are probably the last option here. One of the options I should say. I think they're, I would
concur with Councilman Peterson. I think the Option 2, which includes the five 15 foot down lit,
or shielded lights provide some balance in terms of safety and security on the property while
minimizing the effect on the neighboring properties. If this was a residential development that
was going in here, we wouldn't even be talking about street lights. They'd be there. They'd go
in and those would be, from a design of a street light, well very similar to what exists right now
at Pioneer Trail and Foxford Road. There are 2 street lights right there that shine out, and there's
a pretty good glow right there and along Foxford there are periodically spread out street lights.
Why are they there? They're there for safety and security and that's what staff is recommending
here and I think the type of lighting here is actually going to be less intrusive, to Councilman
Peterson's point. If these were 25 foot standards, that would be different. I think that would be
much more noticeable than the 15, and so I am comfortable. I think the second option with the
five 15 and then everything else 4 feet provides a good balance to try to provide for safety and
security of the property while minimizing the impact of the neighbors. With regard to hours of
operations, I think there, that was raised and something that we've been discussing. Because this
is a permitted use in the zoning area, a golf course, they need to cut the grass. That's just
something that you do at a golf course. That's part of the normal necessary factor of running the
golf course. I think what we talked about last week, when I think normal use in terms of the
golfer on a golf course, starting out a half hour before sunrise is not an unreasonable time. You
can see. I think Councilman Peterson spoke about the, it's a half hour before, half hour after is a
useable term. It's used during hunting regulations in our state. It's used for piloting aircraft. I
think here the difference is, it's not an issue of the golfers being able to see. It's an issue of the
noise that's emanating from the course, and that's where I would be a proponent of following
staff's recommendation to start hours of operation at sunrise. If the, I think how are we defining
it here? I think it's the civic, not nautical sunrise but actual sunrise itself, and allowing then the
operations to continue the half hour after civic or to nautical sunset. I think that's a fair
compromise, recognizing that during June, and the longest days, people are going to be out there
and they're going to be operations earlier in the day than they will be in the fall but I think that's
the nature of a golf course. And with the few nice months that we have, people like to get out
and golf and there will be people that are out there early golfing. Getting in 9 holes before they
go to work, and that's part of recreation opportunities that an operation like this will present as
well so, while I understand there may be some inconvenience, I think by not starting as early as
other courses do, we can try to minimize that and will still provide in a reasonable expectation
for the property owner and move forward, so I'm comfortable with staff's recommendations
throughout. It sounds like my fellow council members here this evening are as well, and I think
for reasons previously stated with regard to lighting, we've made some good progress there but
staying with the Option 2 which includes at least five of the 15 foot standards with the, with one
of them remaining lit in the central parking lot for safety and security, I think that's a very, very
good compromise. So that's what I would support this evening. Any other thoughts or
comments on this? Is there a motion then?
Councilman Peterson: Mr. Mayor I'd move that the City Council approve the conditional use
permit with conditions 9 through 12. In addition the Site Plan review, conditions 1 through 11
with the findings of facts as attached to the staff report. One question Kate. Do we need to put
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
in there about the shelter anywhere or not? I can't, is that something that we should put in as an
addition?
Kate Aanenson: It's on the site plan... As shown on, your condition adopting the site plan.
Councilman Peterson: Okay, that's fine. Motion stands.
Mayor Furlong: Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjomhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Question on the motion then. Kate, with regard to the
issue of the lighting, since there were two options in the staff report. How does the motion just
made, does that provide for what staff's recommendation was in terms of the second option on
the lighting schematic?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think you should quantify the second...ofthe five driving and parking
lot lighting. The five 15 feet.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, because the conditional use permit number 9 here speaks to height of
light pole may not exceed 15.
Kate Aanenson: So that would be the five specific. Two in the driving, 3 in the lot.
Mayor Furlong: Can we somehow tie it back to staff's report under.
Kate Aanenson: Because you also want to clarify that they all be off, except for the one in the
middle.
Mayor Furlong: Which would be the second so, incorporating staff's recommendation for the
second option? Is that acceptable Councilman Peterson?
Councilman Peterson: So noted, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: And Councilwoman Tjomhom, you're comfortable with that as well? Just so
we're clear on what's there. Thank you. Any other questions or discussion? Points of
clarification? If not we'll proceed with the vote.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
approve an amendment to Conditional Use Permit #2003-4 CUP, Planning Case 05-39 for
the construction of a golf course with a club house as shown in plans dated Received
January 6, 2006, with the following amendment to condition #9 of the existing conditional
use permit and adding conditions 10, 11 and 12:
9. No exterior lighting shall be permitted with the exception of safety lights which includes
parking lot lights, soffit lights and drive aisle lights, incorporating the second option
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
lighting plan as shown in the staff report. The height of the light pole may not exceed 15
feet. All light fixtures must meet ordinance requirements. All lights with the exception
of the light located in the center island of the parking lot and the club house soffit lights,
shall be shut off one hour after sunset.
10. The applicantlowner/lessee shall apply pesticides only when needed. Use products that
are most effective, target specific, and present the least hazards to people, wildlife, and
the environment.
11. A retail pro shop is permitted within the clubhouse. Retail operations shall not occupy
more than 20% of one floor. Retail sales are limited to food, beverages, and golf-related
items.
12. Hours of maintenance operation shall be limited to Civil Sunrise to Nautical Sunset."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 3 to O.
"Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
approve an amendment to Site Plan Review 2003-7 SPR - Planning Case 05-39, for the
construction of a Club House, a Maintenance Building, a golf ball washing building and a
lean-to for a golf course as shown in plans dated received January 6, 2006, with the following
added conditions:
1. Applicant shall increase landscape plantings to meet minimum requirements for parking lot
trees. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the City and approved by staff prior to
issuance of a building permit.
2. Applicant shall fully screen parking lots from adjacent roadways through the use of berming
or increased landscaping.
3. The applicant must submit detailed architectural plans for the maintenance building, golf ball
washing building, and lean-to that meet the design ordinance requirement.
4. Comply with all conditions of the MnDOT review letter dated November 23,2005.
5. The temporary 120 square-foot octagon building may remain on the site for a time period not
to exceed six month after City Council approval and must be removed within two weeks after
a Certificate of Occupancy has been issued. The building shall be located in the parking lot.
6. The applicant is responsible for obtaining and complying with MnDOT and Carver County
permits and approval on any grading that takes place along the north and west side of the
property.
7. All disturbed areas are required to be restored with seed and mulch within two weeks of
grading completion.
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City Council Meeting - March 20, 2006
8. All plans must be signed by a professional civil engineer registered in the State of Minnesota.
9. The golf ball washing and golf ball dispensing building shall not exceed 100 square feet in
area.
10. The maintenance building may not be used for "Halla Nursery" related items nor exceed
2,040 square feet in area. The outdoor storage area shall be fully screened by a board on
board wooden fence. The height of the fence shall not exceed 6Y2 feet.
11. The trash enclosure located west of the maintenance building shall be constructed of
materials similar to the club house building."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 3 to O.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. Appreciate all your efforts and thoughts and input.
Thank you.
COUNCIL PRESENT A TIONS: None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: Well I've got a couple here. Councilmember Craig Peterson this past week was
appointed to the Transportation Advisory Board. That is a transportation board that serves Met
Council and awards grants to transit and MnDot and other government agencies for roads,
bridges and a variety of transportation needs. So he should be congratulated on being on that
board.
Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Congratulations.
Councilman Peterson: My ascension to power.
Todd Gerhardt: I already hit him up earlier tonight on the 41 pedestrian underpass, which was an
application last year so, hope he doesn't forget about us here. And his works have already been
felt over there. Southwest Metro Transit was awarded a $5.5 million grant this past week also by
the Transportation Advisory Board for a multi level parking ramp that will be located somewhere
behind the Chanhassen Dinner Theater and serve as our downtown parking ramp for commuters
to various locations. Probably most of them downtown Minneapolis. And again that was with
Southwest Metro Transit, so pretty excited about that and future activities that might occur in
that area when you put an asset like that in that location, that definitely is a draw for both retail
and other type uses so, that's going to help as we work on redeveloping the back side of the
Dinner Theater. Len Simich and Craig and I think Commissioner Workman played a vital role
in helping us to get funded for that parking ramp so our thanks go out to everybody. Other than
that, that's all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
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