PC Minutes 6-20-06
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 20, 2006
Chairman McDonald called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mark Undestad, Kurt Papke, Jerry McDonald, Debbie Larson, Kevin
Dillon and Dan Keefe
MEMBERS ABSENT: Deborah Zorn
STAFF PRESENT: Bob Generous, Senior Planner; Josh Metzer, Planner I; Alyson Fauske,
Assistant City Engineer; and Don Asleson, Natural Resources Technician
PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS:
Jerry & Janet Paulsen
Craig Steesz
7305 Laredo Drive
South Lake Drive East
PUBLIC HEARING:
LAKESIDE: REQUEST FOR A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT ON 26.34 ACRES
REZONING THE PROPERTY FROM R12. HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL (PUD-R) WITH VARIANCES:
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR 29 BUILDING LOTS. TWO OUTLOTS AND RIGHT-OF-
WAY FOR PUB LID STREETS: SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 234 UNIT
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. INCLUDING TWO. THREE. FOUR AND
CONDOMINIUM UNIT BUILDINGS. AND A COMMUNITY BUILDING: AND A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT WITH
VARIANCES. SIENNA CORPORATION. PLANNING CASE 06-26.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Thomas 1. Bastasz
John Ringstrom
Bruce Carlson
Scott Frederiksen
Stephanie & Thomas Drees
Ken Ross
Timothy Bohlman
Rodney Walker
Travis Beck
John Harriss
T odd Anderson
Steven Mangold
179 Lakeview Road E.
126 Lakeview Road E.
8988 English Turn
18626 Bearpath Trail
14727 Boulder Point Road
8976 English Turn, Eden Prairie
Ron Clark Construction
18992 Bearpath Trail
3702 22nd Avenue So, Minneapolis
250 3rd Avenue, Suite 130, Minneapolis
16338 County Road 30, Maple Grove
4852 Woodhurst Lane, Minnetonka
Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
John Vogelbacher
Paul Cherne
John Bushey
Steven Schwieter
Rick & Linda Denman
Laura Cooper
Joan Ludwig
David Florenzano
4940 Viking Drive #608, Edina
201 85th Avenue NW, Coon Rapids
9000 Riley Lake Road, Eden Prairie
10072 Gristmill, Eden Prairie
6656 Pointe Lake Lucy
9015 Lake Riley Boulevard
9005 Lake Riley Boulevard
9470 Lakeland Terrace
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
McDonald: Any questions for staff? Kurt, want to start?
Papke: Yeah, I'll start. I've got a couple of them here. Page 3 of staff report, background item
(t). Planning Commission has not ruled pro or con as to number 11 on the applicant, yadda
yadda yadda. I didn't quite get it. What?
Generous: As part of their previous conditional use permits, they are non-conforming use
permits. The question was the number of boats that could be moored at the site. It had been
pointed out as part of the historical, they had 15 boats, which is beyond what our ordinance was
and so they sort ofleft that open as part of the granting of the conditional use permit back in '93.
Papke: Okay, so this is back to a.
Generous: '93 approval. Which is going away with the new conditional use permit.
Papke: Okay. That was kind of confusing. Page 4 under intent. Is this within the Bluff Creek
Overlay District? I know Lake Riley, Riley Creek goes just.
Generous: No, it's not within Bluff Creek.
Papke: That was a little, so.
Generous: It should have been stopped after clustering of development.
Papke: Okay, so strike the Bluff Creek Overlay District?
Generous: Yeah.
Papke: Page 6. The hard surface coverage. I understand that we're exceeding the 50% site
coverage for individual lots. I'm just a little concerned here on this. Normally, quite often as we
all well know when we have variances come in for hard surface coverage, the first thing the
applicant asks is well can't I average this out over all the lots in my neighborhood, okay. And
we always say no. Okay?
Generous: Unless you do a planned development.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: Unless you do a planned unit development. So that's.
Generous: That's the distinction.
Papke: That's the rationale here. Because it's a PUD, we can average everything together?
Generous: Right, and the idea behind PUD' s is also you might just have the lots around the unit
and have more common open space.
Papke: Okay. Okay. Page 12. The developer must provide ingress/egress to the North Bay
residents for the duration of the utility extension within Lake Riley East. Can you color this in a
little bit? How bad? How long a time is this going to be? I'm just concerned with the hardship
for the residents there.
Generous: And I'll request that Alyson.
Fauske: Commissioner Papke, staff just looked at the location of the sanitary sewer and
watermain tap connections and we just wanted to point out that they would just have to provide
access to the neighborhoods since they only have one current access Lyman Boulevard. We
don't anticipate that it will be a long duration. We anticipate half a day to a day at each location.
Papke: Okay. So quite brief then. That sounds pretty good. Okay. Next one here. Question on
page 30 of the staff report. Condition 55. The trail connection at the northeast corner of the site
connecting the lakeside area to the future Highway 212 trail and underpass as depicted in the
applicant's plan is completed. Can you explain that? Is this?
Generous: This is one that Mr. Hoffman put in there. I believe it's that this connection be
provided as part of this development because this trail will eventually connect to the underpass
for 212/312. And so we're building this one and we want to make sure they get that one also.
Papke: So what do we mean by "is completed"? Is the developer funding this or building it?
Generous: Yes, the developer has to construct it.
Papke: Okay. Okay, I got it. It was just the language was a little unclear what we were really
installing. Okay. Page 4 of the findings of facts. Having to do with the potential exclusion of
93 units from the, this is one of the variances we're asking for here. A hardship for the
developments, and this would exclude neighborhood residents from enjoyment of common
facilities. I certainly concur with that. Could you explain how that turns into a hardship?
Generous: Well as a part of, you're creating, segregating basically a neighborhood by saying
anyone outside of this 1,000 feet is, can't enjoy the amenities that they're paying for as a part of
this association. Again we were looking at, had they changed this design and put all the
condominium buildings on the south end of the project, we wouldn't have an issue with this.
Over 80% of the units.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: I don't disagree with the value and the conclusion. I'm just struggling with this being,
you know because we're sticklers about this sometimes, as you well know, because we have
three other variances on the agenda tonight. All of which are going to claim hardship issues, and
I just want to make sure we're clear on this so.
Generous: It's yes. It's how do you make this development work without allowing the entire
association to participate in the association amenities.
Papke: Okay. So it's more of an issue of fairness?
Generous: Equity, yes.
Papke: Okay. And I think that's all I have.
McDonald: Debbie.
Larson: The only one I've got is regarding, page 15 of the staff report. Talking about the tree
requirements. Are we being, it'd be the proposed for the east property line. Are we not doing
anything there because of the trees that are already currently there?
Generous: No. Partially this analysis was superceded after Jill finished her report and left and
then the applicant re-submitted a landscape plan which is the one that you're looking at, and it
does have trees on that east property line. But we are going to require that they meet at least
those, what's required on this. We'll do the review to make sure what they proposed.
Larson: So there's something that I don't have that is.
Generous: Well you have the plan but Jill didn't have the same.
Larson: Oh, it's not on the report, but it's on the plans?
Generous: Yes.
Larson: Okay. Never mind. Alright, that's all I have. Thank you.
McDonald: Kevin.
Dillon: You're asking for a 48 for a building height rather than a 35 foot height. That's a pretty
significant difference. Are there any things that's going to do to ruin the view or it would cause
any other distractions or anything like that in that area?
Generous: All the view would be within this development because to the east is the Bearpath
golf course and to the west you have North Bay which is actually down from this site. So you're
not changing that. It's just yes, it is. They're going up. The trade off is they could get the same
number of units by adding another bigger building on that and we thought that it would be better
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
to vary upwards in this instance for those 3 buildings rather than oh 3 or 4. Or 4 or 5 shorter
buildings.
Dillon: And it's noted that the current uses that are there are going to get demolished, and
maybe it's not the concern of this commission but what's going to happen to the residents that
will be displaced and you know is there enough lead time for them to find...
Generous: I'll have the applicant address that one because we did discuss that with him so they
can tell you what they're doing.
Dillon: That's my questions.
McDonald: Okay. Mark?
Undestad: Just one. On the beachlot. What size, I mean how do you determine how big the
beach can be?
Generous: Those are based on DNR standards.
Papke: I think brief discussions with Lori, the applicant will have to get a permit from the DNR
for the beachlot, and that will be worked out with the DNR.
Keefe: Going back to hardships and variances. Just some understanding of what the hardship is
on each one of these variances. I think you talked a little bit about the 48 foot one, but on the
east side, it's a reasonable use question or hardship?
Generous: Partially, is it reasonable to require this 50 foot setback? Ifby changing it you can
reduce the concrete. More open space within the development and do other design issues within
the project. And then also, usually when we have a planned development, it's next to some other
use that's right there. Well in this case we don't have that.
Keefe: Right. Yeah, I mean I'm not, I just want to know what the hardship is. I don't
necessarily disagree with granting the variance in this case but I'm just curious what the hardship
might be. And then the 1,000 foot standard, do you know why that was, why it's 1,000 feet?
Generous: I'm not sure on that one, no.
Keefe: Okay. So, and the reason why we grant this is so that all residents would have the ability
to use the beachlot, is that really, my hardship would be a use for all residents of this
community?
Generous: My assumption was that they were concerned when developing the ordinance that
you know as a neighborhood might develop and then one next to it and they want to join the
association to get the access to the lake and so they wanted to try to limit that.
Keefe: Okay. Alright.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: Mr. Chair?
McDonald: Yes.
Papke: Just because the meeting here we had some material given to us with some concern
expressed by the North Bay homeowners, with drainage into their retention pond. Could staff
explain the drainage patterns here and what water is going where from where?
Fauske: As you can see here is Lyman Boulevard. Here is Lake Riley Drive. The existing
neighborhood right here. I'm hoping people, unfortunately the colors don't show up very well
on this but I tried to, what I did was color in essentially the area that would be draining to this
pond here, which is the pond of concern. This area all through here would drain through storm
pipes and outlet into this pond. This pond here was designed to accommodate runoff from this
site. We had our engineering consultant, one of our consulting firms verify that the existing pipe
and the existing pond here can accommodate the runoff from that site. Currently the entire site
drains to this pond. There's a small depression area through here with a pipe that shows it
outletting to this wetland. And then the remainder of the site through here goes to this pond right
here.
Papke: And that's a new pond?
Fauske: Correct. A new pond for the development. And then part of the question, part of the
concern that Mr. Ringstrom had was regardinf ownership and how do we have a right to do that.
I pulled up, this is the plat from North Bay 2n Addition and I outlined here in green and then
highlighted that there is a drainage and utility easement over the pond area here. Again here's
Lyman Boulevard here. Here's Lake Riley Road or to the North Bay development through here.
So we do have a drainage and utility easement over that. The City is responsible for
maintenance through there. Through our campaign of, through the MPS, MPCA ruling where
we have to go in every, I think it says 10, every 5 years. Pardon me. Thank you. Every 5 years
the City has to go and check and see if the pond has sedimented in and we'll take out sediment in
the pond if it' s removal capacity has been compromised because of sediment deposition in there.
But it was designed to be a storm pond and the proposed runoff going to that pond meets the
design requirements.
Papke: Is there any overflow from the new pond to the pond in North Bay? Is there a cascading
affect in here in essence?
Fauske: Yes. The outlet to, going back to, and unfortunately you can't see it very well on this
drawing but this pond does outlet over to the west. But again it meets the rate and quantity
control set forth by this pond design.
Papke: So it sounds like we've got all the quantity issues. It seemed like from the resident's
letter and pictures that there was concern over quality as well. Phosphorous loading and so on.
Perhaps when the developer gets up they can comment on plans for fertilizer and things of that
nature to make sure that we address the quality issues.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Fauske: Certainly, and also inherent in the design requirements for a pond, there is that, what we
call a dead pool storage requirement, which is basically the volume of the pond below the outlet
and that volume is determined based on settling velocities of sediments that come through the
pond. So there's a water quantity, pardon me. A water quality component inherent in the design
of a pond.
McDonald: I have a question for you concerning the pond. What's the purpose of the pond?
Fauske: This pond is a storm water treatment pond.
McDonald: And then where does it drain off to whenever it reaches capacity?
Fauske: It outlets at this location and then this location to a pond, a wetland complex that's up
here and a wetland mitigation area that's down here.
McDonald: So it doesn't drain into Lake Riley or anything such as that?
Fauske: No.
Generous: Not directly.
Fauske: Not directly.
McDonald: Not directly, okay. Anyone else have any follow along questions? Okay. Then
with that, if the applicant could come forward and address the commission.
John Vogelbacher: Good evening. My name is John Vogelbacher. I'm with Sienna
Corporation. I've got some illustrated books that I'd like to pass out to the Planning
Commission, and this is just a little bit more detailed in regards to the project and building
products that are proposed for the development. And I've got some other additional copies if
anyone in the audience would like to see these. I'll set some of these around. Do we have
enough for everyone that would like one? Well appreciate the opportunity to present the
Lakeside development to the Planning Commission and we have, of course we've been to the
Planning Commission in a workshop and reviewed a lot of the design parameters of what we
have put into the project. It's evolved based on staff comments and also evolved architecturally.
We feel we've got a real good plan and something that I think that will be a real fine addition to
the housing opportunities within Chanhassen. And maybe before we get into actually the book
here, if we could address possibly some of the questions that you had since they're fresh in your
mind. We could do those. I guess first of all would be the Lakeview Apartment residents that
are currently residing on the property. Sienna does not own the property. We'll be closing on the
property next Wednesday. The leases that are currently in the complex, there's 170 units in the
apartment complex right now. There's approximately about 100 of those occupied. The leases
provide for a 60 day notice both from the landlord and from the tenant. We realize that
relocation for some of the tenants is going to be difficult so we've put together through the
Carver County HRA a program which we can assist them. Sunday, July 2nd we'll have a
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neighborhood meeting on that site for all the residents which would be to deliver a set of options
for them that the HRA is going to be providing for us so we've worked with Julie and Mary over
at the Carver County HRA office to put together a package to you know, identify particular
locations that they might be able to find. In addition to doing that, we've got a couple translators
that will help for those that may have difficulty in terms of, at the language barrier. What we'll
be doing for them, which will be the assistance to help them relocate is we have a truck
dedicated to help them move. We also would provide the deposit back to them immediately
upon their vacation of the rental space, and we also have a program where, though there is a 60
day notice, we've allowed them to vacate their space as soon as they wanted to. In addition to
that, if they vacated the 60 day time period, for every day that they would vacate prior to that
we'd give them $20.00, so generally if a tenant had a place to go. Wanted to relocate on July 1st
or June 30th, they would receive about $1,200 from us in cash, plus their deposit and I think
that's, along with transportation if they need it, and enlist the help of the HRA, we think for a lot
of those tenants that are there, that will provide a great deal of assistance and try to get them
relocated so. We realize that there'll be some tenants that will need a little more tender loving
care and we're certainly not going to put a family out on the street. We would not do that so
that's our program through the HRA to help to assist existing tenants on the property. I think
some of the other questions we had, the ponding issue, and Paul Cherne is here who's our civil
engineer and I'm not an engineer but I did want to maybe clarify a little bit of the capacity that's
in that pond. There's about 4 feet of bounce in that pond, so the outlet pipe or the pipe that takes
it back into the North Bay project, there's actually 4 feet of holding capacity in that pond from
it's normal water elevation and it's high water elevation so there's quite a bit of time period from
which water that would... In addition to that component which currently isn't in place, and the
water that does leave this site goes into that pond untreated, we would be treating it but in
addition to that, what we would be doing is using that pond as a reservoir for that overall
irrigation system for the whole project, and then there'll be a recharge well for the pond. So if
certainly during time periods of July and August where it gets very warm and you do have more
of an opportunity for algae growth within a pond, that's the worst time and so at that time period
there's usually not a lot of rain so at that time period we're recharging on a daily basis with
ground water which will again provide for a much greater degree of clarity in that water. So I
know that's an issue and a lot of it is unknown based on not knowing what's going to happen.
But I think really this particular project will actually support a great deal of degree of more water
quality as that water's leaving the site. Paul, did you have anything else to add in regards to the
ponding?
Paul Cherne: Yeah, I think that's kind of. . . unless they've got a real specific question.
John Vogelbacher: Some of the other items that were discussed was the distance from the
recreational beachlot, and Bob correct me if I' m wrong but the ordinance provides that 80% of
the occupants that are going to be using the beachlot live within 1,000 feet of the lot itself. And I
know when we did, when we were here at the workshop meeting I know that the calculations in
the staff report, I mean I guess my calculations, I'll have to check my math. Maybe I did it
wrong or something but as I look at that and looked at the distance of 1,000 feet and then took
80% of that and then took the additional amount of residents that would be outside of that
distance to come up with 100%, what happens to us is that Building C. If! can turn. How do we
turn this map up? Oh thank you... Building C I believe, and I wish I would have brought that
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
with me but what happened to us is that just part of Building C would be qualified to use the
recreational beachlot. And it just seemed, and I guess if you look at the hardship, in terms of
administering the project, what we would have would be some sort of a portion of that building
that would qualify to use the beachlot. The other portion of the building could not. And we
believe that we have a contiguous site and the site is well laid out. We have a professional
property manager to manage the facility which is a dramatic difference than what's currently
occurring on the property. Real high quality amenities and a security system on the lake. You
know we certainly understand the reasoning behind the ordinance but I guess the hardship would
be how did you administer that when you have a portion of the building on I guess what we
would have as maybe the first flood would maybe use the beachlot and the other two or three
floors would not. And we think it just provides a very difficult administration. And there is
some inequities relative to you know a person living on this property and certainly being part of
the whole association, yet not being able to enjoy the whole benefits of what's provided for the
far, far majority of the rest of the residents of the project. I'd like to just talk a little bit about the
building height issue and again there was a question about the hardship and I, John Harriss who
is the architect for the condominium buildings, he'll be pulling together, providing a lot more
information in regards to the detailing and the design of the buildings, but it's probably not
expressed so well in the staff report but Building A is a 3 story building. Building B is a
modified 4 story building, which steps from the east to the west. And then Building C, we really
haven't gone through a whole design parameter on Building C yet, but I guess what the concept
was in Building A and we talked about this and that is, the roof on that building which is an
attractive feature, also increases the height of the building, but it is a 3 story building. And could
have done a flat roof. It would have dropped the height considerably. One of the objectives
though was to make it have a more residential feel. As you look at all the properties that are on
the other side of the fairway, or the other properties that are on the west side of the property line,
the townhomes, they all have a pitched roof and so that was really more of the thinking there was
to make that building have more of a residential feel to it. And certainly the height can be
reduced if you went with a flat roof, but we just didn't feel that architecturally that would be the
best look. I think what I'd like to do is just kind of continue through the book and maybe I've
missed a couple items that were discussed but I hope I took well enough notes if there's any
other particular comments that the Planning Commission had relative to the staff report I'd be
glad to answer those but maybe I could just run through our book here and kind of describe the
project a little bit better in terms of what we're proposing to the city. I think Bob had mentioned
the development of the beaches on the property and that would actually be a permit that we
would get from the Department of Natural Resources. Certainly that would be regulated by
them. The actual beachlot is part of the city ordinances and relative to the amount of lineal feet
of shoreline we have which is about 1,100 and we've got about 57,000 square feet of surface
area, which would qualify for the recreational beachlot. Actually for two of them, and so what
we'd like to do is propose for two 50 foot beaches on that property. They're separated quite a
bit. Almost probably about 800 to 900 feet apart, and I'm not so sure that that's a variance or
such. I mean we do qualify for two beachlots which would allow you to have a beach on each
lot. We're combining the docks of the two beachlots into one, which is provided for in the
ordinance, and that's just to consolidate and to provide one source of management for the boats
on the recreational beachlot.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: Question on the beachlot, both for staff and the developer. One of the applications
we've seen a lot of in the past couple years is the request by a homeowners associations or
homeowner for an additional dock. Okay, one of their neighbors has a dock or they have an
existing dock on a community lot and they want to add another dock. Now in this particular case
you're giving up what is currently a dock. What, how final is this? My concern is obvious. I
don't want to have you guys come back 5 years from now and say you know we really want that
dock back in there again. We've got a bunch of residents that really want to dock their boats that
way. How final is the legality of this? I know it's a very general question, but you see where
I'm going.
Generous: Well whatever you approve is what they get now. They can always come back.
However they're not giving up the mooring spaces from their extra dock. They're just
consolidating into one dock.
Papke: Structure but we're giving up a launch, yes? For boats.
Generous: Well they're removing a launch that is non-conforming. We don't permit that at any
new ones. There is one on the east side of the lake for getting boats in but right now they can
actually physically use that site to put, launch boats and we're eliminating that.
Papke: And what would prevent one of the homeowners from backing their boat into the beach
and launching it? Is there?
John Vogelbacher: Well we have a fence.
Papke: You have a fence? There's no.
John Vogelbacher: Which there is no fence now. I think there's a...
Papke: ... so you couldn't back a boat trailer in there?
John Vogelbacher: Right. No, and they'd drive over a bunch of gardens and stuff. I'm not
saying that someone couldn't do that but it would certainly be anyone that we would allow to do
it, that's for sure.
Papke: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that this is, this doesn't come back to haunt us 5 years
from now.
John Vogelbacher: No, and I think the plan that we have meets all the guidelines of the
ordinance in terms I think we're just consolidating the docks so we have one, which I think in
terms of meeting those requirements, we certainly do that.
McDonald: I asked you a question concerning the docks. One of the things that's come up
about these community docks is overnight docking of boats. Is that going to be allowed here or
is this strictly going to be a daytime usage, first come first served?
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
John Vogelbacher: Well what we have will be probably at a minimum 3 association owned
boats. There would not be any privately owned boats in the docks. So they would only be
owned by the association. The docks would be owned by the association and managed by the
homeowners association. We're allowed up to 6. I don't really know if that's exactly how many
we'll have. I don't think that will be the case. Part of that is you know you have association fees
and somebody's got to pay for 6 boats and so it'd be somewhere between there. Probably a
minimum of3 and it could not be any more than 6.
McDonald: Okay, because on the drawing you show slips for 6 boats.
John Vogelbacher: Right, and we're certainly willing to provide, in our developer's agreement
exactly that situation where they're not slips that you sell, rent. Whatever they are. They're
solely just for this project, right.
McDonald: Okay.
John Vogelbacher: So the site amenities which we talked a little bit about, which is I guess in
terms of subdivision development this is quite comprehensive in terms of the amount of
landscaping and features that are built into this project, and of course the first one would be
along the lake there and the park area that is designed to work as probably about 4 to 5 shade
gardens. Gazebo. Some paving there. Some hardscape paving to come from the street down to
the dock area. And generally the development that is east of, there's a flat area and that's where
you see the garden area and the gazebo that's in the very west side of that property. There really
is very little, if any development and the staff report indicates some concern about the trail
construction from the, let's say the active area where the docks are through the park area which
would be back towards the east. And what we propose to do in there is as minimal as we
possibly can, which would be this trail might be as little as 2 feet of width in some areas,
depending upon what the site gives us. Not intended to be a 4 foot or 5 foot or 6 foot trail, nor
any paving or bituminous. It would probably be more liken to a hiking trail then a trail that you
might see like in a park area. And because it is very rugged through there. The topography is
very steep. Very heavily wooded and we'd like to just basically keep it that way and that's kind
of part of the experience that we're trying to create here is really more of a hike through the
woods there than more of a parkland trail that you would find certainly through the rest of our
project. As we go across the street, and again we would have a fence, an ornamental fence that
would control access into the park area on the lake. As you go across the street on Lyman, we
have a community building which is approximately 5,000 square feet and that's kind of a party
or gathering area for the whole project. In the lower level of that building is a fitness area with
restrooms and also some other additional storage areas, so that's a very good looking building.
There's an elevation of that. That would be used by everyone that's actually in the community.
The other major feature that's in the project is the waterfall at the center of the project, which is
more of a center park that is to be used by all the residents. There's a trail that runs along a
stream bed that cuts through the center of the project. There's about 14 foot waterfall that starts
at the far north end, and then that drops to kind of more of a flatter area and the pictures that you
see there would be very representative of what that trail or what that stream and waterfall would
look like. Both pictures are actually from Windsong. That's a golf course project over on the
west side of town. The contractor that built that stream would be the same one. That's Ravine
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Construction that would be building this stream. So, and they also built that big stream complex
over at Troy Byrne which is another golf course in Wisconsin, and they're both very, very well
done and the method that they use to do that is kind of, they use a slurry or kind of a concrete
mix that sits in the bottom of the creekbed so you avoid erosion and things that you might
typically find in a stream bed. So very good construction techniques and very good looking and
that's really part of the central part of our project is to create some gathering points and areas that
would be used by the residents of the project. The only other, the other nice monument plan for
the corner and that's a waterfall feature and that's on that northeast corner of our private drive
coming off of Lyman Boulevard. I didn't mention the decorative street lights but that picture is
actually from Maple Grove and we've used those lights in other projects. It's a real nice looking
ornamental light. It has a fluted base and nice ornamental logo area at the top of that fixture and
it really lets very little glare, so it's a nice light in terms of the subdivision. Good looking and
lights the streets up but yet reduces the glare considerably. So those are our street lights that are
operated and paid for and maintained by the association. The next page is our trail and sidewalk
system. There's 3 different components to that. One of the public trails that we would be
constructing, and the other trails are the private trails and there's very little bit in terms of size.
Again we talked about glare on the park. That's more of a hiking trail. That trail that runs along
the streambed would probably be about a 4 to 5 foot gravel trail. The other sidewalks, pretty
much incorporate access throughout the whole project, and then we have the public trail that runs
down the west side, or excuse me the east side of the site. That's actually in Eden Prairie.
Papke: Question on that before you move on. Could you give us a picture overall, if you will, of
the different types of surfaces you're using on the development. You mentioned that one of the
trails is going to be gravel. I assume crushed limestone or something like that. Are there any use
of pavers, textured concrete? Is this all blacktop? Is there, you know can you give me an idea of
surface materials?
John V ogelbacher: For the trails?
Papke: Trail and streets. Are there any intersections where you incorporate use of pavers or,
you know I'm just trying to get an idea of the texture of the surfaces.
John Vogelbacher: I think generally the streets would all be bituminous, but certainly at the
main entrance we'll have probably somewhere between 50 to 60 feet of a paving treatment.
Whether it's pavers or stamped bituminous and colored. Or concrete. We're not quite sure yet.
But at the entrance there would be certainly a feature in the paving there. We don't have any
other plans for the sidewalks to be anything other than just typical. . .
Keefe: Is it going to be a gated entrance?
John Vogelbacher: Ah no. No. So that pretty much summarizes the overall development. I
would, if we could I'd like to maybe just talk a little bit about the Eden Prairie trail. You may
recall when we came to the workshop previously, the trail that we had proposed and the trail
that's actually commented to in the staff report was located on the west side of the property.
And that would have certainly have been our preference. That's why we put it on the plan. The
trail that we see here is part of the required trail construction that is done in conjunction with
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Bearpath. Sienna was the developer of Bear path and the partners of Sienna are the owners and
operators of Bear path Golf and Country Club. We would have proposed to do something
different. The City of Eden Prairie said you're going to put that trail right there. The reason why
we never built previous to this particular application or why it hasn't been built was because it
would have gone nowhere and the City of Eden Prairie said well that doesn't make a lot of sense
to have a trail that runs up to oh you know, 2,000 feet north of Lyman Boulevard and stops. And
so now with the highway coming through and the Eden Prairie trail connection that will be
farther to the east, that will take you up on the north side of the highway, the timing is right now
to put the trail in. We would again would have proposed to put it on the other side of the site but
this is what Eden Prairie wanted and it works. I mean it does work and so that's part of our plan
here is to construct it. We do have some other trails that connect to that which gives some good
connectivity, you know pedestrian wise for both our residents, and for the residents within that
immediate area.
Papke: A related question. At the workshop one of the things that was still undecided was
beachlot access. Underpass. At grade crossing. Where have you settled on that? What's the
design of the crossing?
John V ogelbacher: Well right now what we show is a crossing just at the corner there of East
Riley Lake, or Lake Riley Road East and Lyman Boulevard. If you can see here. It's just an on
grade crossing. We did look at that. It's, it was just so difficult to do. The grades there to try
and get down below that street. There's also a watermain that runs up Lyman Boulevard. It was,
I mean I think it would have been good but just sight wise it was extremely difficult to do that
and we actually think this is a good alternative. We had suggested to the city staff that we'd like
to see a stop sign at that corner for safety purposes, and I think that's really more their call. If
they feel like they'd like to have that, and I'm not sure what their criteria is but we think that
makes some sense at that particular intersection, and again the crossing there, we'd like to see
some sort of marcation, whether it's in stamping, coloring. Some sort of a crosswalk
demarcation, but again we'd be certainly happy to pay for that and again it's really more of the
city staff and their engineering and street maintenance department as to what they would like to
do there. But we think it merits some additional work and what the staff would recommend,
we're not really quite sure yet.
Papke: A related question, and maybe the city staff. What, I know there's obviously some
rolling hills in the area. Are there any issues with sight lines as you come over the crest of the
hill there just to the east of the development? Are we going to have plenty of time to see people
crossing there and stop or any issues or concerns there?
Fauske: No. When we looked at this, actually at the access facing more of that proposed
entrance onto Lyman Boulevard, we were taking into account the topography of the area. In
order to maximize the spacing between the two access points, you're looking at a significant
grade, basically where Building A is and so we just knew that wasn't a viable option and the
necessity to get two access points so you know we can look at, we can look at where the spacing
is as far as safety concerns but really it's pushed as far east as possible.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: Alright. Right now the trail on Lyman ends just east of the development here or, yeah.
Just west of the development. Just west. Now I noticed the trail now goes on the north side of
Lyman and extends at least to the Eden Prairie borders. Do we know is Eden Prairie going to
extend this all the way to Riley Park? If so, I mean that's, this is one of my running routes so
I'm near and dear to my own heart so. It's personal, yeah. So there's going to be a fair amount
of, well if that trail does extend all the way into Eden Prairie, getting back to your issue of maybe
putting a stop sign here. This could be higher traffic? Are we looking at that or is this
something for Todd?
Generous: Well I know Todd had them switch it over because Eden Prairie told them the trail
would be on the north side. As to the stop sign.
Fauske: Are you looking to stop traffic on Lyman?
Papke: I don't know. I just, you know it sounds like we're not going to have the below grade
crossing now. That's off the table, which is fine. I don't have an issue with that. But if we do
indeed, if Eden Prairie extends the trail here all the way to Lake Riley Park, where currently the
trail ends right when it hits Lyman Boulevard right now, so you have about maybe a half mile or
so here where if you're walking or running or bicycling, you're on a fairly unimproved road.
But so if that trail does go through, one would expect that there would be a fair amount of traffic
through here so.
John Vogelbacher: Well I can tell you that trail will be built this year. That trail that connects
Chanhassen to Eden Prairie on Riley Lake Road because that trail we build.
Papke: Okay.
John V ogelbacher: So and again it was a situation where that was part of our developer's
agreement was to build these two trails, the one to the north and then the one east and west, and
we just never did it because we had always thought that they were going to improve that road
and turn it into an urban street section which has never happened and so now with all the
connecting trails showing up, it's time to put that in so.
Papke: Right. So I guess I'd just ask city staff before this goes to the City Council, that we have
some plan for what we're going to do there, if it's not a stop sign. That's fine as long as we have
you know, we know what we're going to do.
Keefe: Maybe you were going to get to it but let me ask a question about parking. Can you
speak to parking? Is it 2 parking spaces per unit in the condos or is it I? Below grade.
John Vogelbacher: All of the condominium spaces, each one would have 2 spots below grade.
Keefe: Okay. Underground. And then it looks like you've grouped some parking spaces on the
streets here.
John Vogelbacher: Yeah.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Keefe: Is that intended for guest parking or is that kind of what your thought is there?
John Vogelbacher: All the parking throughout the project can be used by any resident, whether
they are in one building or another. So those are all guest parking, right. That would be located
or kind of spread out across the project. I'd like to kind of continue on I guess if we could. Get
to just the product types and we have 3 particular builders here this evening and I'd like to have
them just express certainly in a summary what their product type is. The next sheet in our book
here kind of puts it in summary in terms of the different types of units and some price points.
Target price points. Also the total number of units. Right now we have 233, which is part of the
staff report, and that consists of 3 different number of units into 3 different condominium
buildings. I'd like to maybe have Steve Schwieter come up and describe his units. Steve, he's
got an appointment he has to go to so Steve can describe the W ooddale units and Steve has been
a builder over in Bearpath for years and certainly has been a very good one. We're sure pleased
to have him in our project.
Steve Schwieter: Good evening. I am Steve from Wooddale Builders. Like John had
mentioned, we've been around a long time. I started the business in '74 and we started building
townhomes around town as well as upper bracket single family for, well since then but we
started building townhomes on the north side probably since 1984. We've done quite a few units
throughout all of Eden Prairie. We have not done any project yet in Chanhassen but we look
forward to this development. It entices us from the standpoint of all the amenities that they're
putting in. Chairlift systems and things. The lake amenities. It is not a new product design for
us. I mean it's a one level type product, walkout. Master bedroom first floor. First floor office.
Kitchen. Dining room. Great room and a four season porch. We've done this style of unit
before. We've changed the styling of the exterior to more of a cottage type look. It's a new look
in today's request for styling. We do have both daylight units and walkouts. The daylights
would be, back up to the water feature there, and we're planning on, we typically do, we're still
working on the outside features regarding, I think we're looking at 3 different colors but we're
trying to put, we are doing stone on the fronts. Quite a bit of stone and we're looking at doing a
different type of stone on each building to give it some flare and probably 3 different colors.
They're also using a, some of the new materials that are out today. Maintenance free type
products but it isn't the old vinyl type lap siding. It's all shaker town look. Cedar looking
textured. Board and batten type look and with a lot of the request today for this styling of unit.
People are looking for maintenance free, so that's a huge scenario. We are building a, not a, well
similar product up on the Eden Prairie river bluff right now where we are using like a shaker
town style unit and we're well received back there. Other than that I guess I'm open for
questions, if anybody has any.
Papke: Ijust had one question on your preliminary landscape plan, and maybe I'll nitpick here
but your current landscaping plans show identical plantings on the north and the south side of the
buildings whereas most of the other plans do not. They more take into account sunny side, shady
side so just, do you tweak these as you get closer to the end to just see you know, you'd think
you'd want to put the hostas on the north side and the, you know the other stuff on the south side.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Steve Schwieter: Quite honestly we haven't spent a lot of time on that, but I'm pretty demanding
when it comes to landscaping and things so that will be upgraded.
McDonald: Any other questions? Thank you very much.
Steve Schwieter: Thank you.
John Vogelbacher: So the next product I'd like to have us go over in summary is the Charles
Cudd townhomes. Rick Denman is here to give you a little overview and answer your questions
in regards to those units. Those are on the east and central portion of the project.
Rick Denman: Thank you. My name is Rick Denman. I'm with the Charles Cudd Company.
Our company's been around for about 35 years. We primarily target the luxury home buyer. A
few months ago the Sienna Group and John gave us a call and told us that this neighborhood was
becoming a possibility or dream of what they wanted to do and I often wondered what would
happen. I drove by that piece a number of times and I thought you know it's just a primo piece
of property. It's got Lake Riley on one side. Bearpath on the other side and it obviously needs
to be rejuvenated in some way and brought to a higher value. Very few people are going to be
able to do as good a job as Sienna has really done with this layout and this format so we're very
grateful to be part of it. We've really taken the extra step from a design standpoint. On the plat
the only correction is we actually made the buildings a little bit wider and we went to all duplex
units rather than there were a couple of triples that show at the end there. Three unit buildings.
We went to all two unit buildings on there and we did that primarily because the location we're
in I guess is probably one of the prime locations on the site, and I think when you're talking
about the positioning of the condominium buildings, our units are one level pretty much walkout
units so we have the master bedrooms on the main floor and we're really targeting the empty
nester buyer here. Luxury home empty nester buyer. We have 12 foot plate lines on the inside.
These are definitely very exciting units. Very exciting floorplans. We're building a very similar
unit over off of 394 and County Road 73, in an area called Bassett Creek Crossing, which is
under construction right now. We've had a lot of success with people walking through those so.
Our exteriors will be shake and stone. We've got copper gutters. Wood stained garage doors.
It's four sided architecture. We spent a lot of time on the front, the sides and the back to make
sure that from all different viewpoints and view corridors that these are exceptional and you
know we're very excited about being a part of the neighborhood so, do you have any questions?
I'd be happy to answer them for you.
McDonald: No? Thank you very much.
Rick Denman: Thank you.
John Vogelbacher: Thank you Rick. And last but not least, the condominiums. Steve Mangold
is here. He's one of the partners in Lakeside Condominiums, LLC and John Harriss, and another
member from his office, Travis who've done a lot of, building a lot of individuals have worked
on these plans but I think John would like to, he's got a rather comprehensive overview and
additional information on the condominiums.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
John Harriss: Thank you John. I'm John Harriss with Harriss Architects and I'd like to just
discuss briefly some of the features of the condominiums. We did talk about them quite
extensively at the workshop. I wanted to start out chatting a little bit about why we designed
these condominiums the way we did. Obviously the views from the site and spectacular and that
was the prime motivator for the way we designed these buildings. Starting with Building A, and
we will have a better name for that building someday soon. Right now we're calling it Building
A. It sits up on the most prominent part of the site. Highest part of the site, with the most
commanding views. These units are intended to be true luxury condominium units. Are really
targeting it to be the finest condominium units in the suburbs. Anywhere in Minneapolis-St.
Paul area. The V shape of the building really comes from wanting to take advantage of the
views and to make sure that every unit in the building has a great view. We had previously
designed it as more of a rectangular building, but that was leaving some of the units kind of
looking out onto this area, and not really taking advantage of the views of the lake and the golf
course. So what we've come up with is a design that's actually a single loaded corridor, which is
much different than most condominiums out there. We have a corridor on one side, on the
outside where the parking lot is. We have multiple entrances into that corridor so people don't
feel like they're coming into a central lobby and then having to go 150 feet to a corridor. We're
really trying to make this more like a home so we have actually, we'll have 2 to 3 elevators in the
building that will go down to the underground parking. The units are ranging from 1,850 square
feet to upwards of2,500 square feet. Just under 3,000. Some of the units are intended on the top
floor to be multi level units, but most of them are single level units. Will probably be 2
bedrooms with a den. 2 1Iz bath would probably be a standard layout. All the units have
extensive decks and outdoor spaces and very large windows. We'll get to the elevations after I
chat about the design of Building B a little bit. Building B is also in that kind of crescent shaped.
Does a couple different things. It sort of embraces the view of the lake with the pond in the
foreground, and also acts as a turn to this long green space. And actually at this point one can
walk through a two story lobby and connect up with the ponds so there really is a sense of a
connection throughout the whole site, and that was really important to us. Not to make the
building seem like it was a block to the site but really more of a filter and a way to respond to the
different features of the site. This building would be a little bit more traditional. It'll be a double
loaded corridor. The units ranging in size from 1,600 to 1,800 square feet. The intention is that
the price point of these units would be lower. Not significantly lower but lower than Building A.
So we do provide a mix of units on the site. One of the things that we wanted to do with this
building to respect the neighborhood to the west, was to step it down. And you can see, it's a flat
roof building. We've stepped it down in a couple different terraces. These are green terraces.
The top one being a community terrace. Green terrace and the lower one being assigned to the
units on the end. So at this point we get down to a two story building. I felt that that was the
most appropriate thing to do for this neighborhood. And we have provided in a drawing some
site sections to show the planting details and the scale related to the street. You guys can jump in
anytime you want with questions.
Papke: Is Building B the only one that has the rooftop gardens?a
John Harriss: Yes.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Papke: Okay. Is there a reason why you did not incorporate it into the other ones or you did put
it in this one was makes this one stand out as the only one that has that feature?
John Harriss: Well Building A is a pitched roof so that makes that difficult. But the rest of
Building B we didn't bring in any access up to the roof because if we do that we're going to have
to bring the stair towers up. We're going to have to bring the elevator up which is essentially
going to make it a 5 story building. Even though we'd love to have a beautiful roof terrace up
there, we felt we were pushing the envelope a little bit too much so we decided not to do that.
Can you get a little bit, if you want to zoom in on this or not at all but. It was our intention of the
design, this is Building A. This being the Bearpath, the elevation facing Bearpath. This being
the elevation facing Lake Riley. The intention was to provide a highly articulated elevation and
a skin of the building that was comprised of enduring natural interiors. 80% of the building is
stone and brick. Two different colors of brick. The primary color being kind of a dark reddish,
wood formed, kind of an old English style brick. That really is sort of the style genesis of this is
sort of the English manor homes. We have some coined features and some cast on features.
We've had stone base that is highly articulated. Very large decks. Very large windows.
Papke: Question for you. The chimneys are quite prominent in the design here. Are these all
functional chimneys or are they there for decoration?
John Harriss: It's a combo. We'll probably be running some.. .up there but their primarily
decorative.
Papke: Okay. All gas fireplaces in the units? No wood burning?
John Harriss: Correct. So those can be side walled vented if we wanted them to but we don't
really feel those are very attractive so. So you know our intention in terms of the scale of this,
we do recognize the fact that we're facing other residences across the fairway at Bearpath and
even though it's a very large building, we still attempted to create, break down scales of the
building that would be similar in scale to the buildings across in Bearpath. If you look at a
module where my hands are pointing here, a module here. Now as we march down they're
articulated enough to really break down the scale. So that was our intention there. You can see
we've also created some units that depict maybe some loft units within the roof line on some of
the corner units as well. Lake Riley elevation really more the same thing. We're really trying to
repeat some of the same elements and create some more detail. A building this size, it's really
hard to show the level of detail that we're really intending but you know in terms of brick
bonding and some of the details that we're going to have, it's going to be very highly detailed
building. Very well crafted. The construction is going to be you know, if you can make a sound
proof condominium building, this will be it and so we're really striving to do those kind of
things. Building B takes some of those same elements and some of the same concepts but it's a
flat roof building out of respect for the scale and out of respect for the idea of stepping the
building down as well. These two gables being a little bit different in recalling some of the
features on Building A. These are really kind of intended as a matched set, using some of the
same materials and some of the same elements. This kind of portal here is the entrance from the
north, coming down that long green space, so it really emphasizes the point of entry there in that
two story space. That people can pass through from one end of the development to the other.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
We have a number of different trellis and sun control features. We recognize the fact that this
building faces due south, and so we're using the trellises as decorative features so we hope that
they'll be vines growing up all these buildings and really making it seem as part of the landscape
and kind of give it some of that old kind of English manor type feel.
Keefe: Are you going to have fireplaces in this one as well or, with flues and venting?
John Harriss: Yes.
Keefe: What sort of screening, is screening required do you think for this? I mean does
Building A look down on it?
John Harriss: Well there will be a parapet wall and there's really not going to be, there will be
some mechanical equipment up on the roof but they'll be limited to the air conditioner
condensers.
Keefe: And so you're thinking if you parapet that would screen them?
John Harriss: Yes.
Keefe: Is there any elevation or I mean is there anything from A that can kind of. . .
John Harriss: Yeah, the next group of graphics I have are from a vignette, some perspective
drawings. Can I move this out of the way a little bit? I'm not disrupting wires or anything?
Generous: No.
John Harriss: I don't know if we can zoom in, if you want to zoom in on this a little bit here.
That kind of gives you a pretty good overall picture. This is if you were a bird flying over Lake
Riley. Looking down. So don't have anything from the view of the windows on the third floor,
let's say this unit looking down. So this view really makes it seem like the rooftop's obviously
are a lot more prominent but I think it does give you a sense of kind of how it fits into the
landscape and the contours and the elevation shown on this drawing are taken directly from the
grading plan, as are all the trees shown are directly from the landscape plan. So this is not a
fantasy drawing. This is pretty accurate. There's also some vignettes. This is pretty much
coming in the main entrance here and we don't show the waterfall feature because it is a little
challenging graphically to put that together. But that's kind of the view you get when you're
kind of coming into the complex. This shot here is the interior courtyard, and we are, the
question was asked earlier about paving. We're planning on doing extensive stamped concrete
and things on there. We have a water feature in the center of our parking island there. So it's
really intended to be a very sense of luxury coming into this building. And then we can just see
this elevation is the building facing Bearpath. And then I'll end with this. These are kind of the
same thing, some vignettes and some perspectives. Maybe we could zoom in on this, get this
over here a little bit. This would be looking from the southwest. You can see these are the
terraces that we discussed. This being, belonging to this unit. This is being the common terrace.
These will be green roofs essentially with planted modules capable of actually growing trees.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
Small trees and bushes there so we're really trying to soften that edge the best we can. You see
the pond with the drainage around and Building A in the background. Looking to the east with
Lake Riley over here. This is a shot that's looking sort of northwest. The entrance, the parking
entrance to Building B. Here's a close up the terraces. Some of the articulation that you find in
the facades. And then we have Lake Riley as well showing the pond in the foreground and the
building. So with that I guess I'll close and answer any questions that you might have.
McDonald: Questions for Mr. Harriss? Thank you.
John Harriss: Thank you.
John Vogelbacher: Well I believe that concludes our presentation. I'm sure there'll be other
conversation items or questions that you might have. We appreciate the opportunity to present
the project to you. We're very pleased and excited about being part of the community and are
anxious to get started.
McDonald: I do have one question for you and I'm sorry I didn't ask you as the condo builder.
What about Condo C? What kind of concepts do you have for that at this point?
John Harriss: I think if we were to try, if! was going to say it would probably be most like
Building B. That's you know, I think that those units will probably be a little bit smaller.
Probably, and Steve correct me if I'm wrong but probably ranging from 1,200 to maybe 1,500 to
1,600 square feet. That's our thought now but we're kind of waiting to see how the community
develops and what the most appropriate unit sizes would be for that building. But it will match
the rest of the architecture. We'll use the same materials and the same overall concept.
McDonald: Okay, thank you. Anything else that you want to address? Do any of the
commissioners have any questions before he sits down? Okay. Well at this point we will open it
up for our public meeting and I would invite anyone to come up that wants to make comments or
ask questions, to step up to the podium. State your name and address and then address the
commissioners. Sir, you're first.
John Ringstrom: Commissioners, I'm John Ringstrom at 126 Lakeview and I want to say that
I'm really very excited about this project because it's in my front yard and I think it's going to be
a beautiful project. I do have one concern and that is regarding the storm drainage, and I think
you alluded to it a little bit before and the, let's see. If! get rid of these. What I have here is just
a little drawing of the area and this is the city built pond that is entirely surrounded by the North
Bay community. And I've been learning a whole lot about regional ponds and duck weed and
algae and everything else since this came up but one of the things that happened is, I was
surprised to learn that all the water from the Sienna property is going to drain into the North Bay
pond but after the very nice presentation they gave, then to tell us that part of it' s going to come
into the Lakeview pond untreated. When all they have to do is add another 200 feet of pipe to
get it to that side, down into their pond and treated first was a big surprise to me. And my
concern is that the North Bay pond not become deteriorated. Ijust want to show you, I had a
number of questions just regarding legality issues here and I think that maybe the city can
respond to me on those. You've addressed some of them already and just in a little later respond
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
to those. If you look at the North Bay pond, you can see it's a nice clear pond. You see
reflections of trees and everything else and I am concerned that it's going to deteriorate if it' s
designed to the conditions that meet MPCA and everything else because this is another pond that
is in the area and it's designed to all the same conditions that would be the end result maybe in
the North Bay pond. And I guess I have a concern that our pond not end up looking like that
one. To that end, my real concern is how do we assure that that doesn't happen. How do we
assure that we keep the North Bay pond in really good shape. I think there are two things that
could be done. Number one would be to re-route this untreated waste into the Sienna pond
before it comes to the North Bay pond. And the other thing is, I thought okay I don't know
what's going to happen to the pond. This seems like to be like green magic but I did talk to a
number of the different associations where I walked around and talked to other associations,
what they've done when they've had problems with ponds and things like that and to get rid of
algae a common thing is to like put in a fountain aerator or something like that. That may not be
necessary in the North Bay pond. We don't know but I thought well okay, what if it does
happen. Then how do we address that issue? So I tried to put down at least a little bit of what it
might cost to install. Today, in fact this has happened today. I did have a fellow from Fountain
Air out and I got a little further education. But it looks like from what we talked about, it would
probably cost about $18,000 to put an aerator into the North Bay pond and it would probably
cost in the range of $2,000 a year in operating costs for electrical and in and out and that kind of
thing. And I guess I just want to address those issues before we get so far back and then if I,
before the North Bay, before North Bay residents have a pond issue. I'd like to address it up
front. And that's all. Again I want the Sienna development to be successful and I'm really
excited about it.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come up and make comment?
Ken Ross: My name is Ken Ross. My family and I live on English Turn which is the street that,
on the other side of the golf course from where the development is planned. I'd like to obj ect to
three aspects of the development. The first is the 48 foot height variance of the buildings.
Second is the 30 foot setback and the third is the plan to clear cut all of the trees along the entire
golf course, and I'll address those in order. First of all is the 48 foot height. We heard earlier on
the presentation that the 48 foot building would be at the highest point and the most prominent
point in the development. I think putting a 48 foot building in that area would really not be
appropriate. When I purchased my house, which now looks on trees, it was done with the
understanding that there would not be buildings at that height on the other side. And now the
plan is in place to do that. Secondly, in terms of where the buildings are situated. There are
things on the other side, if not just the golf course. There are buildings that look, you know that
overlook, including my own house, and I again did not expect buildings to be built so close to the
property line when I purchased the house. I feel that both of these things will have a significant
detriment to the property value of my home by putting this building in overlooking an extremely
large and very tall building on a very high point of that property. And lastly as far as the trees
go. The plan which really wasn't discussed here tonight, is to remove all of the trees along the
entire golf course. Now I believe there is an ordinance that requires X number of trees to be left.
The way that's being address is all the trees are being left on the other side of! guess it's Lyman
over there, along the lake. All of the trees that currently border Bearpath are being removed. It's
being done of course so the golf course views are provided but I just think that isn't really in the
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spirit of an ordinance that says you can't essentially clear cut trees in an entire area. That other
side there really isn't even part of a development that's on the other side of the street. It's not
adjacent to any other property, and if you look at what the percentage would be, essentially with
the exception of a small number of trees on the very corner, virtually every tree in that
development is being removed in that area, and I really think that's something that this councilor
this commission ought to consider when you look at the plan. So basically again you know, I'd
like to object to the two variances for the 48 foot and the 30 foot. 48 foot height. 30 foot setback
on the east side. And also ask you to consider the plan for total removal of all the trees on the
east side of the property, which is what it is currently proposed. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come up and address the commission?
Tom Bastasz: Good evening. My name is Tom Bastasz. I'm a resident of North Bay at 179
North Lakeview. Lakeview East I should say and I currently serve as President of North Bay
Homeowners Association. I will say that in general I think the 76 individual homeowners at
North Bay, a majority of them are certainly in favor of this Sienna plan. We think it's a fine plan
and we look forward to hopefully your commission's approval of it. We do have a concern, as
expressed by Mr. Ringstrom two speakers ago. If you look at the Sienna plan, you'll see that
some of the storm water is treated by their pond before it flows into the North Bay pond. But
you'll also see that some of the storm water is not treated in their pond and flows directly into the
North Bay pond. We're concerned about that. And we're concerned about that because if you
consider when the original plat was probably the original engineering was devised, what's there
now is a parking lot, the apartments and the parking lot and most of the 26 acres is natural
ground, and the water will run into natural ground shall we say naturally. But now that that 26
acres could be redeveloped, it will all be, other than the buildings, it will be lawns and it will be
areas that require storm water drainage. So we would request, and we know that Sienna is
planning to build a fine development and they're planning to be very good neighbors, but we
would request that they please consider all of their storm water would be routed to their pond
before going into the North Bay pond. And I'd add one other thing why we're concerned about
that. If you look on page 4 of the very lovely brochure that Lakeside passed out tonight, in the
aerial photo you will see the two ponds, the North Bay pond existing. It looks pristine. And
you'll see the pond beyond North Bay which is all green. We at North Bay would like to prevent
that and that's why we make this request to the commission and Sienna. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come up?
John Bushey: Hello, I'm John Bushey at 9000 Riley Lake Road in Eden Prairie. I'm the
property owner to the east of the proposed development but to the south of Riley Lake Road.
Our property is a remnant of an old church camp and they're kind of in that woodsy area. Can
we take a look at this here? In this area it's all woods. Natural. Pretty much the way it was
when it, since it's been a church camp and there's a proposal to put a second beach and a trail
along this shoreline to a small beach and a trailhead right there and I'd like to explain that the
property that we have is pretty much isolated and inaccessible and almost invisible from the road
during the summer, and from our house, and we have some buildings. Some remnants of the old
church camp that were there that will be kind of inviting to kind of an attractive place if people
are allowed easy access. We maintained the buildings. Kept them painted and roofed, but we've
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purposely kept our property very rugged and inaccessible and uninviting. Well, the addition of
that trail along the shoreline has the potential of inviting people down there, and that's fine. I'd
like to request that if that beach is allowed, or if the trail is allowed into this corner here, that
some natural plantings, maybe native shrubbery or something like that, relatively densely placed
around there kind of contain the access to that area to prevent access to our buildings and
property there. And without putting up fences or anything like that. It's just really pretty nice
the way it is and I can understand why they want access there. Regarding the trail along the lake,
I appreciate that Sienna's interested in having a very narrow trail there. It's pretty steep bank
that they'll be going, traversing along and to put a narrow trail, that's the only way to do it
without having a major engineering exercise so I hope that they can maintain that. If the trail is
allowed, that it be kept at relatively narrow and not a big cut and fill operation with retaining
walls so if that could be considered, those points be considered, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you. Yes sir.
Tom Drees: My name's Tom Drees. I live at 14727 Boulder Point Road in Eden Prairie and
currently in the process of building on Bearpath Trail. I wanted to go or expound upon a couple
things that Mr. Ross said about the trees and some of the other things that have gone on with
Sienna down at Bearpath. As you all know Sienna was the builder of Bear path. They marketed
the Bearpath lots. They own the golf course. There's 8 houses which you can see, where's the
picture here? These houses all along this road right here. A number of people I've talked to, it
was marketed the same way by Sienna reps that there's a 40 foot corridor on the other side of
this fence that is being saved for a trail, and that these trees can never be disrupted. Now while
this drawing shows there's hardly any trees there. I don't know if they erased them or what but
we did get a little better picture in case you haven't seen it of what the trees actually look like.
So this is where we're talking about the Building A, 48 foot high complex in their development.
They're going to clear cut this right here is the fence, so it looks like a hedge. It is a fence.
Every tree you see from here to here is going to be clear cut. Some of them have 3 foot bases.
Some have 6 foot bases. They're going to be clear cut, which gives the golf course views that
they're trying to sell. The project is a nice project. The variances and the clear cutting are the
issue. Sienna sold the properties on the other side to Bearpath, or to people who live in Bearpath
and now they're turning around and breaking the sales pitch that those trees are going to be
disrupted to provide golf course views on the other side to make money for themselves again. So
I guess the question is, how do you know exactly what they're going to do because they've kind
of turned the tables on all the people that live on that side in Bearpath by disrupting the views.
You go from a nature view with big mature trees, and here's another picture. The only area, you
go from the edge of this picture right here all the way to the back of the green. That entire tree
canopy is gone. Done. And what they're doing, the other part of the sales pitch was, there's a 40
foot corridor that couldn't be touched and a 50 foot variance so in a worst case scenario you're
looking about 90 feet at a two story building. Now you're looking at a top of a hill with all the
trees clear cut. For what purpose? They said that they want to go up three stories because they
have this green space they want to preserve. Otherwise it'd only be two stories. We want to put
more units. Well if you look at this proposal, I can't see any green space on there that they're
talking about. Where is the green space that they were going to add those extra units? So I
guess what we're requesting, what I'm requesting of this committee is while the project overall is
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fine. That Building A is a big issue for the people that live on the other side and were given a
promise by Sienna years ago when they built the Bearpath project. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you.
Scott Frederiksen: Hello. My name is Scott Frederiksen. I also live on Bearpath Trail. I work
as a career for a large commercial real estate company in the Twin Cities called Welsh
Company and our business is standing up here on a regular basis and appealing to planning
commissions and trying to get variances. What we're repeatedly told when we come up here
and apply for a variance is that you have to meet one of two conditions. Either there has to be a
public benefit to granting that variance, or there has to be a hardship, and clearly there isn't
either of those things here tonight. The only thing that you're doing by increasing the height
variance is allowing them to get more units on the site. The only thing you're allowing them to
do by increasing, or decreasing the setback is cram the building closer to the golf course to make
it more marketable and raise their sale proceeds so other than increasing the bottom line profit to
Sienna, there's no basis for granting either of these variances and I'd have a hard time telling
you, you know you could support that so. And just expounding on what Tom said, even a week
and a half ago they were telling us those trees would stay so this, we had to find out about this
from the Chanhassen paper so it was kind of a disappointing way to hear about what's going on
in your back yard from your developer.
McDonald: Thank you. Anyone else?
Bruce Carlson: Hi, I'm Bruce Carlson. I've lived on English Turn. The same street as the other
individuals here. I'd like to echo their comments and also add that the comments were made
relative to the variance for the setback that there's nothing on the other side. The fact that
there's a public trail to be built there is something that's significant from a standpoint of what are
the normal setbacks for a public trail? I'm sure public trails are being put in at various places.
There are setback requirements to those, and that should be honored as well. The trees,
especially given the maturity of them and the nature of them, the idea that they'll be clear cut is
pretty reprehensible and irresponsible as far as I'm concerned. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come forward?
Anne Florenzano: Hi. My name is Anne Florenzano and I'm your neighbor across Lake Riley
in Eden Prairie, 9470 Lakeland Terrace and I just want to add my objection also to the 48 foot
variance because looking across the lake, on one of the pages, you do have a view. Let's see if!
can find it. I don't know if you can zoom in on the photos... That photo right there is the view
from across the lake and for many, many of your neighbors who live on Lake Riley, both on the
Eden Prairie side and the Chanhassen side, and...I think there would be a huge difference
between a two story building and what you're proposing with a variance a three story building
and how that's going to affect what it looks like from the lake. And people come to the lake to
enjoy that. Now once again I have not a problem with a lot of the architectural details and some
of the planned amenities, but the variance in height is a concern. Thank you.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come forward?
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Joan Ludwig: Hi. I'm Joan Ludwig and I live at 9005 Lake Riley Boulevard. It's the first house
at the corner of Lyman and Lake Riley, and I have to say that a three story building would be
right out my view as well so I echo what's been said about this variance for a very tall building.
I'm also very concerned about the trees because even though I was never promised the trees,
they certainly are attractive in the neighborhood. Thank you.
McDonald: Does anyone else wish to come forward?
Janet Paulsen: My name is Janet Paulsen and I live at 7305 Laredo Drive. I would just like to
address the variances because this is. . . to increase the profit and it's self created. . . report on page
5 it's supposed to supply a variance. . . for all people of all income levels. Now on page 17 of the
report it says the intent of the project is for luxurious housing units at the upper end of housing
prices. So they're missing the... individual taste and expectations as stated on page 19 and we
think it's not meeting the requirements of the comprehensive plan. . . all income levels. Also the
setbacks should have to be maintained...It should maintain all the setbacks required. Another
question is also, if the OHW now. . . because it's pretty hard to measure how those gazebo's and
so forth will fit on the property if the OHW is higher so I would just like to confirm that. Thank
you.
McDonald: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to come up and make comment? Okay, seeing
no one else get up, I'll close the public meeting and I'll bring it back before the council for
comments. Dan, we'll start with you.
Keefe: Well overall I think it's actually one of the finer developments which has come before us
in terms of how well thought out it is in terms of the quality or the architecture. In terms of the
really the quality of the whole, and the architectural detailing on the buildings and the
condominium units. The amenity levels. The landscaping that you brought in. The creek
running down the middle. Really it's just high quality and first class. I commend you for
bringing that in. However I too am troubled by the height. Particularly the height variance. I
think in regards to the variance on the beachlot, I can buy into the notion of hardship related to
having everybody in the development have access to the beach, so I think I'm alright with that
but I'm troubled by the height variance and I'm not seeing really the hardship related to that
variance. So that's my thought on that.
McDonald: Okay. Mark.
Undestad: I'm kind of with Dan on this too but again the height issues on there. That seems to
kind of come into play all around Building A on there. We're not really privy to what's been
said between the developers and homeowners as far as which trees stay and which trees go. I
know when we create a planned unit development, that gives the developer the opportunities to
do a few more opportunities to rearrange. I mean eliminate some more trees or cluster some
homes and create more green space on there, and that's what they've elected to do is create the
new beauty out there. It sounds like the ponding issues and some of the other issues we've had
in here have been resolved and talked about, but I think it still kind of comes back as one that on
the height of Building A. That's going to be kind of sitting up over the whole world over there
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so, but I think overall I think the design is excellent and the overall project, I like it. We just
need to look at that height on Building A out there.
McDonald: Thanks Mark. Kevin.
Dillon: Yeah. A couple things. The question I had about programs for the people that are being
dislocated, they seem to do a pretty good job with a pretty comprehensive plan of addressing that
so I'm pleased with that. In terms of the beach, making sure that all the residents can have
access, even though they're slightly outside the agreed...I think that makes, that's common sense
and I think that I would be fine with that. The other thing that kind of brought up is you know I
don't know about hydraulics and hydronomy about the runoff and all that but it would seem to
me that, I can see where the people that have an issue with that, having their pond being exposed
to water from the other development, if there'd be a way to kind of address that, I think that that
would be prudent.
Larson: Well everybody's kind of covered most of the things that I had. I guess one of the
issues that I had from the beginning was the trees also. Other than that, maybe I'd like to
understand you know what's going to be going up in place. I know they will be younger trees
but like Mark said, you know because they're buying the property and because it's a PUD, they
do have that right to readjust and rearrange things. I think it is an excellent plan. I'm certainly
pretty much in favor of everything. The 48 foot height doesn't bother me because it's a nice
building. It's not ugly. If it was a big, old ugly building I would have a huge problem with it but
it's a beautiful building and I think from the standpoint of aesthetics, okay so they're adding
more units in it to help cover the cost I suppose, or should I say maybe more profit but I think it
will really be an asset as far as putting in something of the stature in Chanhassen so I'm leaning
towards pretty much approving it all.
McDonald: Thank you. Kurt.
Papke: This development brings up some interesting issues here. Ifwe look at what we're
trying to do, the whole idea, as Bob pointed out at the beginning of this application this evening,
is you know reading from the verbiage here is to relax most normal zoning district standards in
order to permit density clustering, and so improve the quality. I think one of the things we've
been struggling with here tonight is all these variances. You know other than the beachlot issue
with the 1,000 foot distance, I think we'd all be hard pressed to say oh, there's a hardship here.
Okay. I don't think hardship is really the issue. I think more the issue is the quality issue and I
think that's what we're really getting to, and if we look at how this is guided for zoning. This is
guided for 8 to 16 units per acre, and this development is coming in at 8.9 which is at the low
end. I mean that's a good thing so we're at the low end of it and, but we're achieving that by
going higher, okay and we're minimizing the runoff. And getting back to the water quality
issues, which we're all conscience of and striving for, I think that's a good thing. Ifwe made the
buildings lower, we're going to have a bigger footprint. We're going to have more hard surface
coverage. We're going to have more runoff and more runoff issues, so I think at the end of the
day that's a good thing. But I'm struggling with you, it was very interesting to hear the public
commentary. Kind of my take away on all this is, we're going to get a more, little bit more green
space within the development. Lower density and so the residents of Chanhassen benefit, but
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there's some existing residents of Eden Prairie who lose some views. Chanhassen benefits.
Eden Prairie loses a little bit in this deal. So interesting dilemma here. What's the right thing for
everyone involved? If you look at the golf course, I drive down Pioneer two times every day.
Right past the golf course and you see a solid wall of townhomes on, facing north from Pioneer
Trail. And I appreciate the fact that some people are going to lose some views, but that's kind of
what the views are in a lot of the areas, and unfortunately every time we go into one of these
developments, we chop down some trees and we put some more trees up to compensate for them.
That's kind of how it works so. It's an interesting dilemmas here with, I believe the fact that this
is really good for Chanhassen. It's a phenomenal development for Chanhassen but there's some
folks in Eden Prairie that kind of lose some stuff as a result of it so, that's rather unfortunate.
McDonald: Thank you. I guess the only comments I have is, a lot of people have said things
about profit. That we're doing things for profit. Profit isn't bad. That's what makes developers
come in and develop property. I understand the dilemma that the people over in Eden Prairie are
having. However I would say that Sienna you know should probably do something about that.
If those promises were made, that's something you should address. I'm not sure why all the
trees need to come down myself. I would think some of that being left behind might even be a
good sales pitch for a person. I understand you're looking for golf course views and that's a
decision you're going to have to make but just be aware you'll have to live with it. The beach
front lots, I'm okay with treating this as a PUD because again at that point we get something.
We give up something. I think we're gaining a lot. I've seen, you know we're doing a lot of
these developments a little bit to the south of here. They're a little bit higher density and not
nearly as nice. I understand this is all upper bracket. The vast majority of us will never live
there but there are people, you can talk about diversity. I think that we would like to have people
that are well off within the city of Chanhassen. So I do not look at this as missing our
comprehensive plan. I think Commissioner Papke called it out just right. This is not a high
packed development. It meets the requirements and meets it on the low end. This is going to be
a real gem of a community. The water quality. That's something I think the city's got to look at
and address, and you're doing that already. Before, you already got the surface water
management plan. We've already been through it on the, I think the lake just to the, Lake Ann as
a matter of fact. Or Susan. I always get the two mixed up but the city is going around on a lake
and pond basis and we're evaluating all this and that's part of what we're trying to do is to
maintain the water quality so I think a lot of those concerns will be addressed. So I don't see a
lot of problems there. The 48 foot height variance. Again, because of the PUD and because of
what we're getting, I think it's a good compromise to the developer. Yes, I don't see the big
hardships either. You're absolutely right, but that's what a PUD allows you to do. We got
something in return. We're willing to give something up. I think the 48 foot variance is a good
trade off. And I think overall, except for the problem I believe that Sienna may have with some
of their former customers, it looks like an excellent development and I'm sure you'll do right by
everybody. So with that.
Papke: One more comment Mr. Chair? As I sat on the Surface Water Management Task Force
this winter, one of the things I got hammered into my brain by our illustrious surface water
management person is that water quality and you know eliminating duck weed on our water
retention ponds is not a goal of our surface water management plan. They are there to treat
surface water. To protect Lake Riley, Lake Ann, Riley, and Lake Ann, Lake Susan, and all the
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things that we're really trying to protect. I think it would be great is Sienna puts in an aerator to
pretty up the existing retention pond. I think they do that out of the goodness of their hearts and
for aesthetics because obviously they're going to have units that are going to have views of that
pond, great. Okay, but from the perspective of our goal with managing the surface water in
Chanhassen, that's not one of our objectives so anyway, just.
McDonald: Well, thank you for clarify that. With that I'm willing to accept.
John Vogelbacher: Mr. Chairman, may I say something?
McDonald: Sure. Step right up.
John Vogelbacher: I certainly appreciate the comments and concerns of the Bearpath residents
because we certainly have a very vested interest with them. We're also the golf course owners.
Developed that property and I certainly have taken your comments to heart. I can assure you that
myself, or anyone at Sienna would not have made those promises and I don't know what anyone
else said but I'll certainly look into that. There isn't any requirement or anything else that would
have ever been written relative to the issue of the trees or what would have happened in
Chanhassen or such. I'm not aware of that but I certainly will look into that. We have other
people that do other companies that are affiliated that do sales for the project and I'll certainly
look into that. I promised before I'll do that. Relative to some of the other comments, on the
storm sewer issue, just after evaluating and talking to our civil engineer, I certainly think we can
make the additional storm pipe connections so that all the surface runoff from the project goes
into our treatment pond first before it leaves the site. We'll have to add a decent amount of
storm pipe but we certainly feel that that's appropriate and we can do it. And I think that might
not solve the problem totally but I think relative to that one comment, I think we can certainly do
that. As it relates to the tree loss, there's some other issues and some people.. .just aren't aware
of that you could maybe zoom in if you could please on the aerial photograph. Get even closer if
you could. Is that? There's not a clear cutting process going on here. Certainly the amount of
trees that are in Chanhassen, those are being removed and there's a couple reasons for that. One,
the location of the buildings that we have on the property are in the proximity of the golf course
to see it. When we start building there, there's, you can't have a tree there. The value of this
property and the hardship of what we're doing here is very obvious. It's obvious to us. This is a
very expensive piece of property that the existing apartment complex. There's probably almost
close to a million dollars in demolition to take that out of there and the point being is that to do
this project and to do it this quality, you know we need the height of those buildings to produce
the revenue that substantiates the development. As you all know when you get up on the top
floor of a building, that's the most premium unit that you have, and so the reason why our
builders are interested in constructing those buildings is because of that premium, and without
that I'm very afraid we don't have a project so relative to the height hardship, I can express to
you in a financial sense that it is a hardship and without it, I don't know if we have a project. I
know I don't have a contract with my builder. I guess that would be a call for him to make.
Because we made representations on what we feel is appropriate and we're asking the Planning
Commission to provide that opportunity to us. But the tree clearing is, if you look at the trees
that are on the golf course, there are no trees on the golf course that are being removed. None.
So the illustration of the gentleman looking at the horizon there, that's not accurate. There's
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numerous trees, if you look at the aerial, I don't know how many are up and down the golf
course on that berm that drives up to the west of the golf course. Right here. Well... if I count,
maybe about 50. . .
Resident: That's an overhead view. This is the actual view. Right at the fence line is.
McDonald: Okay, if! could. Well I would prefer is that, at this point we haven't really gotten
into any of these issues that we're saying anything about the trees. We have made our
comments. We have said we recognize the economic value of this. I think at this point there is
no objection coming from the commission about the height. If there are issues concerning the
trees and those things, I would prefer that you all deal with it as private parties because some of
this is in the city of Eden Prairie. Some of it is in the city of Chanhassen. How it is dealt with,
because you're the owner of both properties, I think that is something you've got to deal with.
We are not attempting to deal with that tonight. What is before us is the PUD, and that is what
we're going to vote on. And we're not voting on trees. Which ones come up or which ones
come down because that is part of the plan. So anything that gets beyond this I think is getting
out of the scope of what is before this commission and I would prefer that those be private
conversations, which is where they belong at this point. So I appreciate you making comments
but at this point I will close the public meeting again and we need to come back up here and I'm
looking for some recommendations.
Papke: Mr. Chairman, do you want one motion or four?
McDonald: Why don't we just do all four. We'll vote on them.
Papke: Mr. Chair, I make a motion that the Chanhassen Planning Commission approves
rezoning of the property located within the Lakeside development from High Density Residential
District, R-12 to PUD, incorporating the development design standards contained within the staff
report with a variance for the eastern perimeter setback, subject to the final plat and approval for
the Lakeside development. I also make a motion that we recommend approval of the preliminary
plat for Lakeside, plans prepared by Pioneer Engineering, dated May 19, 2006, subject to
conditions 1 through 55. I further make a motion that we approve Site Plan for 233 housing
units and a community building with a pool, plans prepared by Pioneer Engineering dated May
19,2006, revised June 7,2006 with a variance for building height for the condominium units,
subject to conditions 1 through 16. And finally, I make a motion that we approve conditional use
permit for a recreational beachlot, with a variance from the requirement that 80 percent of the
units within 1,000 feet of the recreational beachlot, plans prepared by Pioneer Engineering, dated
May 19, 2006, revised June 7,2006, subject to conditions 1 through 9 as stated in the staff
report.
McDonald: Thank you. Do I have a second?
Larson: Second.
Papke moved, Larson seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
the Rezoning of the property located within the Lakeside development, from High Density
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Residential District (R12) to Planned Unit Development - Residential (PUD-R) incorporating
the development design standards contained within this staff report, with a Variance for the
eastern perimeter setback, subject to the final plat approval for the Lakeside development.
All voted in favor except Commissioner Keefe who opposed and the motion carried with a
vote of 5 to 1.
Papke moved, Larson seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
the Preliminary Plat for Lakeside, plans prepared by Pioneer Engineering, dated May 19,
2006 ,subject to the following conditions:
1. The developer must submit a list of proposed street name( s) and an addressing plan to
Chanhassen Building Official and Chanhassen Fire Marshal for review and approval prior to
final plat of the property.
2. Each lot must be provided with separate sewer and water services.
3. Additional fire hydrants will be required. Please contact the Chanhassen Fire Marshal for
exact location of additional hydrants and any to be relocated.
4. A minimum buffer of 16.5 to 20 feet shall be preserved around the perimeter of the wetland.
All structures (including parking lots) shall maintain a 40-foot setback from the wetland
buffer. All trails and retaining walls shall be modified to remain outside the wetland buffer.
The plans shall be revised to reflect the required wetland buffer and wetland buffer setback.
Wetland buffer areas shall be preserved, surveyed and staked in accordance with the City's
wetland ordinance. The applicant shall install wetland buffer edge signs before construction
begins and shall pay the City $20 per sign.
5. The plans shall be revised to depict the OHW of Lake Riley, which is 865.3. All structures
shall be located a minimum of75 feet from the OHW. The proposed fire pit shall be located
a minimum of75 feet from the OHW and shall be buffered from the lake by vegetation. No
grading or intensive clearing of vegetation shall occur within the shore impact zone (all areas
within 37.5 feet of the OHW).
6. A conditional use permit (CUP) shall be obtained from the City prior to the operation of a
recreational beach lot.
7. All existing amenities and/or structures (including any docks, existing beach that is not
proposed to remain and the boat launch) on Outlot B, North Bay shall be removed. A boat
launch is not permitted.
8. The location of the building on Lot 1, Block 1 shall be adjusted to respect all drainage and
utility easements.
9. The applicant shall supply details about the water feature between the rear yards of the units
in Block 3, specifically the source for the water in the water feature. As an alternative to the
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
current proposal, the applicant should consider revising the plans to utilize storm water as an
amenity as part of a rain garden system in this area.
10. The applicant shall provide additional information detailing the proposed emergency
overflow (EOF) route from Pond 1 to Lake Riley.
11. The grading and landscaping proposed around Pond 1 shall be revised to provide a flat, open
area so maintenance equipment can access the flared end sections from Lake Riley Road East
without damaging the retaining wall or the landscaping and without being below the NWL of
the pond.
12. All storm water infrastructure, including catch basins, storm sewer pipes, manholes, flared-
end sections, outlet structures, ponds and swales, shall be owned, operated and maintained by
the developer and, eventually, the homeowners association. Prior to final plat recording, the
developer shall enter into an agreement with the City that outlines the parameters of
operation, inspection and maintenance of the storm water infrastructure. This agreement
shall be transferred to the homeowners association prior to the developer relinquishing
responsibility for the development.
13. The SWPPP shall be provided to the City for review by the Carver Soil and Water
Conservation District.
14. The plans shall be revised to show that erosion control blanket will be installed over all areas
with 3: 1 slopes or steeper.
15. A stable emergency overflow (EOF) for the pond shall be provided. The EOF could consist
of rip rap and geotextile fabric or a turf re-enforcement mat (a permanent erosion control
blanket). A typical detail shall be included in the plan.
16. Energy dissipation shall be provided for all inlets and outlets within 24 hours of installation
17. Wimco-type or other comparable inlet controls shall be used and installed within 24 hours of
installation of the inlets. Perimeter controls and inlet protection shall be in place and
maintained as needed until 70% of the vegetation is established.
18. Typical building lot controls shall be shown on the plan in a typical detail. These controls
shall include perimeter controls (silt fence), rock driveways, street sweeping, inlet control
and temporary mulch after final grade and prior to issuing the Certificate of Occupancy
(CO).
19. The proposed storm water pond shall be used as a temporary sediment basin during mass
grading. The pond shall be excavated prior to disturbing up-gradient areas. Plans shall show
how the temporary basin will be constructed and how water will be diverted to the temporary
basin. Berms and/or ditches may be needed to divert water to the pond, and temporary pond
outlets are needed. The outlet could be a temporary perforated standpipe and rock cone. The
plans shall be revised to include a detail for the temporary pond outlet.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
20. The proposed silt fence along Wetland Basin B shall be Type 2 silt fence, as specified in
Chanhassen Standard Detail Plate 5300. Type 1 silt fence may be used for the remainder of
the site. The grading plan shall be revised to show the proposed silt fence following the
grading limits for the site and shall be located outside of the required 16.5-foot wetland
buffer. Silt fence shall be placed at the proposed high water level elevation of the proposed
storm water pond.
21. Street gutters and catch basins are considered "surface waters" and shall be protected from
exposed soils with a positive slope within 200 linear feet. Following installation of curb and
gutter, silt fence shall be installed curbside along all positive slopes to the street with exposed
soils.
22. Plans shall be revised to show erosion and sediment control measures for the road ditch along
Lyman Boulevard. All perimeter controls shall be inspected by the city and the SWCD prior
to grading.
23. Details for concrete washout areas where drivers will wash out their trucks and how the
water will be treated should be developed and included in the SWPPP.
24. Street cleaning of soil tracked onto public streets shall include daily street scraping and street
sweeping as needed.
25. At this time, the estimated total SWMP fee, due payable to the City at the time of final plat
recording, is $195,293.
26. The owner/operator of the proposed development shall apply for and obtain permits from the
appropriate regulatory agencies (e.g., Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District,
Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (NPDES Phase II Construction Site Permit), Minnesota
Department of Natural Resources (for dewatering), Minnesota Department of Transportation,
Minnesota Department of Health) and comply with their conditions of approval.
27. Tree protection fencing shall be installed prior to construction around all areas designated for
preservation and/or at the edge of proposed grading limits.
28. A walk-through inspection of the silt/tree preservation fence shall be required prior to
construction.
29. No burning permits shall be issued for tree removal. All trees removed on site shall be
chipped and used on site or hauled off.
30. The applicant shall increase landscape plantings along the east property line to minimum
bufferyard requirements.
31. No trees shall be removed behind the northwestern corner of the silt fence as shown on
grading plans dated 05/19/06.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
32. A total of 139 trees shall be planted in the development as required for canopy coverage.
33. All existing buildings, driveways and accessory structures must be removed before grading
commences.
34. The lowest floor elevation of 106 Lakeview Road East must be field verified.
35. The high water level of the proposed pond must be minimum three feet lower than the lowest
floor elevation of the adjacent homes along Lakeview Road East.
36. The high water level of the wetland must be determined.
37. The proposed grading in the northwest corner near the wetland needs to be adjusted so that
the first floor elevation of the homes within Lot 13, Block 2 are at least one foot above the
emergency overflow elevation of the wetland.
38. Pavement grades at the following locations must be adjusted so that the grade does not
exceed 7%: West of Building A, and the northern street extending from the Lakeview Road
East intersection.
39. Private driveway grades shall not exceed 10%.
40. Ground (i.e. non-paved) surface grades shall not be less than 2%.
41. Emergency overflow locations and elevations must be shown on the plan.
42. High point elevations between the catch basins must be shown along the east side of Block 2.
43. Each lot must be provided with separate sewer and water services.
44. An easement is required from the appropriate property owner for any off-site grading.
45. If importing or exporting material for development of the site is necessary, the applicant will
be required to supply the City with detailed haul routes.
46. Building permits are required for all retaining walls four feet tall or higher and must be
designed by a Structural Engineer registered in the State of Minnesota.
47. All sanitary sewer, watermain and storm sewer within this site shall be privately owned and
maintained.
48. The watermain extension from Lyman Boulevard must be wet-tapped and must be done
under traffic.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
49. The developer must provide ingress/egress to the North Bay residents for the duration of the
utility extension within Lake Riley Road East.
50. Each new lot is subject to the sanitary sewer and water hookup charges. The 2006 trunk
hookup charge is $1,575 for sanitary sewer and $4,078 for watermain. Sanitary sewer and
watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the parcel at the time of building
permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the number of SAC units assigned by the
Met Council and are due at the time of building permit issuance.
51. The 15-foot wide sanitary sewer easement on the northwest side of the property must be
vacated.
52. The proposed pool house must not lie within the drainage and utility easement.
53. The payment of full park dedication fees at the rate in force upon final plat approval in lieu of
parkland dedication.
54. The applicant shall provide all design, engineering, construction and testing services required
of the "Lyman Boulevard Trail." All construction documents shall be delivered to the Park
and Recreation Director and City Engineer for approval prior to the initiation of each phase
of construction. The trail shall be 10 feet in width, surfaced with bituminous material, and
constructed to meet all city specifications. The applicant shall be reimbursed for the actual
cost of construction materials for the Lyman Boulevard Trail. This reimbursement payment
shall be made upon completion and acceptance of the trail and receipt of an invoice
documenting the actual costs for the construction materials utilized in its construction.
55. The trail connection at the northeast corner of the site connecting the Lakeside area to the future
Highway 212 trail and underpass, as depicted in the applicant's plans, is completed."
All voted in favor except Commissioner Keefe who opposed and the motion carried with a
vote of 5 to 1.
Papke moved, Larson seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
Site Plan for 233 housing units and a community building with pool, plans prepared by
Pioneer Engineering, dated May 19,2006, revised June 7, 2006, with a Variance for building
height for the condominium units, subject to the following conditions:
1. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the necessary
security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping.
2. The pool, including the pool deck, shall be relocated outside the 50-foot setback from Lyman
Boulevard.
3. Accessibility must be provided to all portions of the development and a percentage of the
units may also be required to be accessible or adaptable in accordance with Minnesota State
Building Code Chapter 1341. Further information is needed to determine these requirements.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
4. Buildings over 8500 square feet of floor area are required to be protected with an automatic
sprinkler system. For the purposes of this requirement property lines do not constitute
separate buildings and the areas of basements and garages are included in the floor area
threshold.
5. The buildings will be required to be designed by an architect and engineer as determined by
the Building Official.
6. Demolition permits must be obtained before demolishing any structures on the site.
Application for such permits must include hazardous substances investigative and proposed
mitigation reports.
7. A final grading plan and soils report must be submitted to the Inspections Division before
permits can be issued.
8. Walls and projections within three feet of property lines are required to be of one-hour fire-
resistive construction.
9. Retaining walls over four feet high require a permit and must be designed by a professional
engmeer.
10. A 10-foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e., street lamps, trees,
shrubs, bushes, Xce1 Energy, Qwest, cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure that
fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to
Chanhassen City Ordinance #9-1.
11. Yellow curbing and "No Parking Fire Lane" signs will be required. Contact Chanhassen Fire
Marshal for exact location of yellow curbing and locations of signs to be installed.
12. Fire apparatus access roads and water supply for fire protection is required to be installed.
Such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to and during the time of
construction except when approved alternate methods of protection are provided.
13. Temporary street signs shall be installed at street intersections once construction of the new
roadway allows passage of vehicles. Pursuant to 2002 Minnesota Fire code Section 501.4.
14. Fire apparatus access roads shall be designed and maintained to support the imposed load of
fire apparatus and shall be serviced so as to provide all-weather driving capabilities.
Pursuant to Minnesota State Fire Code Section 503.2.3.
15. No burning permits shall be issued for trees to be removed. Trees and shrubs must either be
removed from site or chipped.
16. Approved fire apparatus access roads (driveways) shall be provided for every facility,
building or portion of a building hereafter constructed or moved into or within the
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
jurisdiction. The fire apparatus access roads shall comply with requirements of Section 503
and shall extend to within 150 feet of all portions of the facility or any portion of the exterior
wall of the first story of the building as measured by an approved route around the exterior of
the building or facility. Exceptions: Fire Marshal is authorized to increase the dimension
of 150 feet where the building is equipped throughout with an approved automatic
sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, 903.3.1.2 or 903.3.1.3. Pursuant to
Section 503.1.1 2000 Minnesota Fire Code."
All voted in favor except Commissioner Keefe who opposed and the motion carried with a
vote of 5 to 1.
Papke moved, Larson seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
Conditional Use Permit for a recreational beach lot with a Variance from the requirement
that 80 percent of the units within 1,000 feet of the recreational beach lot, plans prepared by
Pioneer Engineering, dated May 19,2006, revised June 7, 2006, subject to the following
conditions:
1. A conditional use permit (CUP) shall be obtained from the City prior to the operation of a
recreational beach lot.
2. The plans shall be revised to depict the OHW of Lake Riley, which is 865.3. All structures
shall be located a minimum of75 feet from the OHW. The proposed fire pit shall be located
a minimum of75 feet from the OHW and shall be buffered from the lake by vegetation. No
grading or intensive clearing of vegetation shall occur within the shore impact zone (all areas
within 37.5 feet of the OHW).
3. The area of Outlot B shall be recalculated to include only the area within the outlot above the
OHW. The amount of shoreline for Outlot B shall be calculated along the OHW. The
number of docks and slips permitted by the conditional use permit for the beach lot shall not
exceed the number of docks and slips allowable by City Code for the actual beach lot area
and frontage.
4. All existing amenities and/or structures (including any docks, existing beach that is not
proposed to remain and the boat launch) on Outlot B, North Bay shall be removed. A boat
launch is not permitted.
5. The applicant shall work with staff on the design of and materials for proposed path from
Lyman Boulevard to the dock to minimize the impacts of runoff from the path to the
shoreline and Lake Riley.
6. The proposed walking path along the shoreline shall be made of a pervious surface such as
mulch, crushed rock or turf grass and shall not be located below the OHW. Special attention
shall be paid to ensure that the path materials are not prone to erosion. The plans shall be
revised to show the woodland gardens above the OHW of Lake Riley.
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Planning Commission Meeting - June 20, 2006
7. An individual permit shall be obtained from the DNR for any beach sand applications that do
not meet the DNR standards for sand blanket applications without an individual permit.
8. One beach area shall be permitted to minimize impacts to the lake and to adjacent residents.
9. The applicant shall work with staff on the placement of the beach lot infrastructure to
preserve as many of the existing trees in that area as possible. A survey of the area with the
tree locations will be required and used to facilitate tree preservation. The applicant shall
also work with staff on the location of the woodland path and woodland gardens along the
path. "
All voted in favor except Commissioner Keefe who opposed and the motion carried with a
vote of 5 to 1.
Papke: Dan, you want to clarify?
Keefe: Yeah, my issue's with the height variance on number C.
McDonald: The building?
Keefe: Letter C.
McDonald: Oh, okay. Did you take note of that Bob? Okay, thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ABRA AUTO BODY & GLASS: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
FOR AN AUTOMOBILE BODY REPAIR SHOP AND SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR 14.430
SQUARE FOOT EXPANSION TO A 4.074 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING ON 1.89 ACRES
LOCATED AT 60 LAKE DRIVE EAST. PROPERTY ZONED HIGHWAY BUSINESS
DISTRICT. APPLICANT ABRA AUTO BODY. PLANNING CASE 06-24.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Henry Cornelius
Maleah Alosta
Carol Kahnke
6322 Timber Trail, Minneapolis, 55439
Alliant Engineering, 233 Park Ave, Mpls
154 Choctaw Circle
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
McDonald: Dan? Mark? Kevin?
Dillon: How many outside parking spots for like cars that are like waiting to get repaired? How
many, or how many on the spot, typically how many cars are there now and then how will that
increase?
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