Loading...
PRC 2006 07 25 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JULY 25, 2006 Acting Chair Scharfenberg called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jack Spizale, Jeff Daniel, Anne Murphy and Steve Scharfenberg MEMBERS ABSENT: Tom Kelly, Glenn Stolar and Paula Atkins STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent APPROVAL OF AGENDA:Murphy moved, Spizale seconded to approve the agenda amended to include discussion on bike trail markings under commission member presentations. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Scharfenberg: Any public announcements? Hoffman: Well, we have a variety of them. Coming up on the calendar is, what’s the next event? Miracles. Ruegemer: We’ve got concert series Thursday night. Our last one. There’s a Big Bend in the River is the band. 17 piece band. They’ll be playing Thursday night right up here. Scharfenberg: What time? Ruegemer: 7:00. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: Then August, what’s the date for Miracles? th Ruegemer: 18. th Hoffman: 18. Miracles for Mitch. It’s actually up to 1,000 participants in the event and th Huffman Race is September 9. Plan ahead for those events and talk to your neighbors. Scharfenberg: Do you need any help from the commission members on the Huffman Run? Ruegemer: We sure will. You bet. I’ll be in touch with you guys. Hoffman: Sign up in August. Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Daniel: What’s that date again? th Ruegemer: September 9. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Murphy moved, Daniel seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated June 27, 2006 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. DISCUSS POTENTIAL PARTNERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES WITH INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT 112 AS THEY SEEK TO BUILD A NEW HIGH SCHOOL IN CHANHASSEN. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Scharfenberg, members of the commission. To your last meeting I th believe it was, June 27 the commission made a recommendation to the city, that the City Council initiate a joint effort concerning a baseball stadium within the community. That recommendation has been forwarded from my office to City Manager Todd Gerhardt on June th 30, and at the time you talked about that that evening, and as you recall that conversation was initiated by the gentleman that came in I believe at your May meeting to talk about the future of baseball and the possibilities in Chanhassen. The commission also said well, let’s talk about what other possible joint facilities could we participate in with School District 112 as they come to town to ask the voters to build a new high school. They will be presenting that referendum on th the general election this November 7. They’ll build a high school on a 90 acre site situated off of Lyman Boulevard in southern Chanhassen. You have a map located there. I have seen a very preliminary site plan and it did include on that property a football stadium and a baseball stadium as the two most visible external or outside athletic venues. They also had tennis courts, which they need for their tennis program, and then a track, which would be incorporated in their football stadium, and then just some ancillary fields after that to allow for practice. So now a huge property at 90 acres. It has some bluff and some unusable property, and then you plop a very large school in the center of it and that’s what they have mapped. At least in a schematic design. That’s in no way to say that those things will be built there. Just gives you an idea of the possibilities for that particular piece of property. In general, to kind of shape the conversation, the Park and Recreation staff had a, had hoped that with this new school coming to town that there would be a potential to add to our, add to our ability to host athletic events in the community. From what we see today, this new school, if built in town, will actually do the opposite. They will not be able to build sufficient facilities on that site to accommodate all the activities that would come along with a high school, and so they would be out seeking space or playing time at Lake Ann, Bandimere, Lake Susan to accommodate a high school being in this town. Now the City would probably certainly want to attempt to accommodate that so they’re going to be you know Chanhassen children attending that school. Participating in those programs, but it’s actually going to do the opposite of what we had hoped for. It’s not going to be a, it’s not going to go in the positive column. It’s going to actually I think put additional pressure, if it’s built, on our existing facilities. And so you know this is the time again to look for additional opportunities within the community. Do we have to go out and partner with the district and push some additional space in town? They also don’t have an ice arena incorporated 2 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 as a part of this program, and in talking about that, if you’re going to have your own football team and your own baseball team, you’re going to have your own hockey teams and where are those teams going to go and participate so, there is much work to be done and I think a lot of it’s going to have to happen in the next 30 to 60 days prior to the referendum, and there’s also, if this thing passes, there’s going to be a good deal of work after that point. When you open the school in fall of 2009, if it passes, you’d better be ready not only for the academic needs of those children but the sporting and athletic events as well so. That’s the general message that I have for the commission. It’s really one of your responsibilities to advise your City Council on what you see as far as the necessary improvements in the community, if any, if this high school is built in the community so anxious to hear from you folks and upon receiving a recommendation, if you have one to the commission, or for the council, staff will forward that to them. Scharfenberg: Let’s open it up for discussion. Anne, want to go ahead first? Murphy: Well what I heard a lot of discussion from my neighbors was on the community pool and wanting to have a swim club. Competitive club swimming in Chanhassen because we don’t currently have that. They have to go to Chaska or Minnetonka, so a lot of people have their kids in, and Eden Prairie. So a lot of people don’t have their kids in Chanhassen swim club because there isn’t one. So they wanted to see that and then the article came out in the paper that it wasn’t being built in the high school so people had a lot of concerns and questions about why it wasn’t being built at the high school, and I really didn’t quite know all the background on that so I didn’t really know how to answer that question. But that’s what I heard the most about and people wanted of course a football stadium. Then I had a couple people bring up parking. If there’s going to be enough parking for students, because I guess at Chaska High right now a lot of the students can’t park, or there’s only so many spots given so there’s a lot of students that can’t park that have cars. Hoffman: They park at Target. Murphy: Yeah, and walk so. That’s what I heard. Daniel: Yeah, and actually the same thing at Minnetonka. They’re parked all the way down to 101 on the side. It’s amazing. They walk for blocks just to get there. Hoffman: And you referenced the article about the pool, and I’m not sure if they answered all the reasons why but from what I understand the pool is going to be proposed for construction at th the 9 grade center, along with additional gym space and at least from what the article said, is it’s they considered it, the school district, a neutral site in the fact that it wouldn’t be at the high school in Chaska. It wouldn’t be at the high school in Chan built, and so it would be at that location and both varsity teams would then utilize that space. In addition they had it programmed in their overall program for that site, so they have the space there to accommodate it. So that was their reason. Murphy: So both high schools are using that for their competitive high school teams. The odds of a club swim getting a lot of time in the fall and winter. 3 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: Would not be good. Murphy: Would not be good. Daniel: Yeah and Chanhassen does have one pool. Just serviced by Minnetonka so. Scharfenberg: Jeff, what do you have? Daniel: The one comment I had, talking to a few people out are, out in the public is, and this is going to sound weird, but with discussion related to the town ball, town ball stadium I should say in support of athletic from cooperation with the school district and supporting as initial discussion came up for town ball and that’s kind of where I’m heading to. Really related to concessions believe it or not and alcohol sold on the concessions because as you know you cannot sell alcohol on school premises. So not that that was a major issue, but it was one, a concern by actually 3 or 4 people I talked to. I mean as far as well are they going to be, it’s going to be like Chaska. They kept on comparing it to Chaska. One person referenced it to Jordan and how Jordan does their’s as well. I mean they’re all off site and I don’t know if there’s any consideration if there’s interest in the district to kind of have something set up similar to how Chaska’s doing their’s with the athletic field. From a high school standpoint. I mean if Chanhassen has a, or if and when we get to the point of having a high school in our city, then having a baseball stadium on campus in support again, and if we’re looking at a town ball team, there might be some loss of additional revenues if they, or at least an opportunity in the sale of beer basically. So that was, like I said, the irony out of everything. It pretty much, the people I talked to were pretty excited about the idea. Not only the high school but also the idea of town ball coming back in Chanhassen, and legion ball as well. Scharfenberg: Jack. Spizale: So Todd as I understand it, the reason that there wouldn’t be some of those things is because of shortage of land or the type of land? As far as doing a stadium at the high school. It’d be hard to do? Hoffman: They could do it, and they had a stadium both for baseball and football in their initial schematic. The baseball field was shorter than a town ball field, and you also, as Commissioner Daniel’s pointed out, you could not have concessions with alcoholic beverages, which in a town team level doesn’t make a lot of sense. So if you want to pursue a baseball stadium that can accommodate all those uses, like Shakopee, Jordan, Chaska, you would want to look to an off site location and then utilize that space that would have been taken up for the baseball stadium for something else at the high school site. But currently they have one on their plan, but it’s 350 and it would be for high school ball. The town teams probably could not be accommodated there. Spizale: Okay. That’s all I have. Scharfenberg: Okay. Well the thing that I talked with some people about, the one thing that came up was the hockey rink and doing some sort of hockey facility. I also had a conversation 4 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 with former Park Commissioner Rod Franks about you know kind of where the school board was on some of this stuff or just talking about some of those issues and just, he had indicated with respect to the pool is that, as Todd had indicated, that they have the space at Pioneer Ridge to build that. He also said that he didn’t think that there would be, that they would talk about another pool if the cost, he said the cost of the pool alone is $8 million dollars so, that there probably wouldn’t be looking at partnering with somebody to build potentially another pool. And you know I was thinking about what the, and then talking to Rod too about the hockey situation, he said that if you did that, they would be looking at potentially two sheets of ice. One for a practice sheet. The other one for a playing sheet, but you’d use both but they would be looking potentially at two sheets, and he had mentioned the possibility of approaching the City of Victoria about building another sheet. They have one, but then they would have two. The only other thing I thought about in terms of what we have in terms of land space was, with the two outdoor rinks that we have out at Bluff Creek, that that space you know would be some potential to do something with that and partnering with the district with some of that space maybe. Otherwise my thought is, I think they’ve got to have, they’ve got to have sufficient practice facilities. It’d be nice to have a bigger ballfield or have a ballfield to accommodate. I just don’t know if they’re going to be able to, that they would be, the City, or the school district be willing to partner on doing something like that off site. I don’t know. Other than that, that was about it. I know there’s been other talk about at previous meetings, putting up some sort of a dome or some sort of thing similar to what I think they have at Eden Prairie and I don’t know if there’s any thought about that or doing something like that with them. Hoffman: Yeah, I don’t know either but it would make sense at their football stadium would be a good way to go there. Also they’re talking artificial turf on these fields, so you can play on them just about non-stop and then if you put a dome or a bubble over that, a field house over that football stadium, then you can play both summer and winter. Would come down obviously for the summer and fall season and then go back up, but I’m not sure if that’s in the program. And then again, if the community wants to get involved in that, people have to step up and say, we’d want to consider that as a part of the program. Scharfenberg: The one thing that Rod Franks had mentioned too is that the school district has a very good bond rating and that they have the ability to borrow money at a very low rate, and potentially partner up with either the City or other youth organizations to help pay back that money if they’re going to go into something together. I think he cited an example of where they had built something and somebody was paying back the school district in terms of building stuff like that, so I think there’s interest there on their part to do something more and I would certainly encourage our council to explore all possibilities with the school district to partner as much as we can. Todd, do we need to kind of make some recommendations then to council as to what we want. Do we want to prioritize some things or? Hoffman: You can either prioritize or just make a motion and then similar to the last statement you made so. You can give them specifics or you can give them generalities or you don’t have to, you know just depending on what the four of you feel is best. As far as a motion to the st council, we’re coming up on August 1. Obviously they’re going to formulate this referendum in probably the next 30 to 60 days and then it’s going to go on the ballot so. It’s going to happen fast. 5 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Daniel: If you don’t mind if I can add one more thing too Todd with regards and going back to the stadium as well. Or at least the baseball portion of it. If you take a look at the surrounding high schools that Chanhassen will be in essence competing with, or potentially competing with. Minnetonka’s got a brand new $3 1.2 million dollar stadium that’s absolutely beautiful. Field turf year round and, well basically. Football. Converted football fields for the fall, which actually is a nice benefit for having those types of, that type of field service. You know they can quickly change it out. The fences are moved or actually removed. But that as far as I know, actually I think Eden Prairie as well are the only two local ones that are on campus. Everything else is pretty much, Shakopee as you mentioned, Chaska, you know playing, Chaska plays in one of the best ball parks in the State, and they have that leverage of course the ballpark’s almost 100 years old. But still, if there is an opportunity either at the school district or off site in looking at existing facilities that Chanhassen has, that’s one thing you should probably take into consideration and my recommendation at least with regards to that portion of it, if they do, is at least give a good serious consideration to an off site first. Taking a look at. Then second would be on campus. Any type of partnership. I think part of it has to do with again with limitations and the expansion of town ball, if that’s the direction the community or people do want to see us go into. I really don’t want to see where it’s at Victoria, where it’s very low turnout’s. Right in the heart of the city and they don’t get a whole lot of attention. I think part of it has to do with the facilities. Hoffman: Yeah, much of it does. Daniel: Yeah. I mean it’s just, actually probably a good, almost all of it does. It’s actually a really nice ballpark but it’s not. Hoffman: A stadium. Daniel: It’s not a stadium, exactly. So if you can do it, do it right then. Scharfenberg: Does anybody want to propose a motion? Murphy: I just have one more question. Scharfenberg: Okay. Murphy: Is that a done deal then that they’re going to do the pool at Pioneer Ridge? Hoffman: As far as I know. Murphy: There’s no discussion of doing it at the high, or building it at the high school? Hoffman: There was discussion but as far as I know their consensus is that they’re going to th propose to build it at the 9 grade center. Murphy: That was the district’s decision? 6 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: Yes. Murphy: I’m just confused how they’re going to share, how both high schools are going to share a pool. Practice time and metes because they’ll have metes at the same time, I would think. Hoffman: Maybe they haven’t thought of that. You hope they have. Murphy: You kind of hope they have. Or else maybe one school will wind up kind of taking it over. Scharfenberg: Yeah, maybe they’ll only one swim team combined. Murphy: I mean Chaska does have a pool. Scharfenberg: I don’t know if they’ll have separate swim teams too. Maybe they’ll just, depending on what they have for turnout, you know. Hoffman: They could combine it. Scharfenberg: They would just have a combined program maybe initially, I don’t know. Murphy: There’s pretty good turnout for that. Scharfenberg: I don’t know. Murphy: I mean people get cut so I mean. Hoffman: Good question…and ask your school board Anne. Murphy: Yeah. Hoffman: Check out their meeting. Scharfenberg: So does anybody want to put anything, put forth a motion for staff? Daniel: I really don’t have anything. Scharfenberg: Jack. Spizale: Not exactly to put it to a motion. Daniel: I don’t know if there’s anything concrete right now. Hoffman: Something similar to what you stated earlier. 7 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Scharfenberg: I was going to say, something that we encourage staff to recommend to the council discussions with district 112 and partnering with them in any and all possibilities, including hockey rink, baseball stadium. Anything else that we want to talk about? Daniel: Pool? Murphy: I’m the pool. Well I’d just like to see Chan, I don’t know how to word that. …Chanhassen team will get used to a pool and it won’t just, they won’t just be added onto the Chaska team. Spizale: It’s like making a wish list. Murphy: And will there be any community use of that pool? I don’t know. Scharfenberg: There isn’t too much now I don’t think. Hoffman: Some. Scharfenberg: They have some open swim but. I’m assuming they’re going to keep the pool at the other middle school too, right? That will stay. Hoffman: Not a competition pool. Probably a practice or pool. Scharfenberg: Right, for class. Daniel: Well why don’t we go with that wish list then. Scharfenberg: Okay. Do you want me to go ahead Todd, somebody go ahead and make a motion? Okay. Daniel: I guess a motion to, motion for the staff to continue discussions with District 112 on use or further investigation of joint partnership with regards to recreational facilities of ballpark, hockey arena, and further discussions on pool. Scharfenberg: All in favor. Hoffman: Is there a second? Murphy: Oh, second. Scharfenberg: Moved by Commissioner Daniels, seconded by Commissioner Murphy. Daniel moved, Murphy seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission direct staff to continue discussions with School District 112 on further investigation regarding possible partnership for a ballpark, hockey arena, and pool. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. 8 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 2007 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Hoffman: Back to another wish list. This one is a little bit more concrete. On an annual basis the commission is asked to review your upcoming year’s CIP. In this case it’s the park and trail acquisition and development CIP, or capital improvement program. We have a 5 year CIP. We’ll be looking a little bit more in detail in years 2, 3, 4 and 5 later on this winter, but for next year I want to review with the commission what is currently slated, and that’s listed in the first column. A total of $405,000. Includes items starting at the top. The most expensive is the Arboretum Business Park, Lot 12 trail. A long title. Basically if it’s, it’s the last segment of the trail that is behind the Holiday Inn Express. The Holiday Inn Express is a mile, almost a square mile of park open space. It has a trail system that is broken into four quadrants. The southeast, the northeast, and then the Holiday Inn Express piece would be the northwest. The southwest quadrant is left to be built. It will start down near, what goes through there? Coulter Boulevard. Right at the intersection of Coulter, and then it will travel through the back of that Lot 12. Cross a little creek way. Through the oak woods and connect up to the neighborhood, which is right there off of Galpin. And so it’s the last segment. We have a development contract with the developer of that area that when that lot is platted, or a building permit is taken out for that lot, then the development contract kicks in. They have to build that trail as a part of their improvements for that property, and then we have to pay them back. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen. It’s just a pending sale. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen next year so we’re recommending you take that out for next year. It includes $114,000 for a Highway 101 north trail connection. That’s to finish the Highway 101 north trail from Pleasant View to Minnetonka. There’s a piece that’s left off. And then also from Pleasant View down to a trail that starts on Pleasant View. Just kind of, a couple of blocks down from 101. Daniel: What is that, I’m sorry to interrupt you Todd. Where is that from Pleasant View north, does it wrap around? Hoffman: No. It will connect up right to the trail that is there now. Just at the curve. Daniel: Right where the curve is? Hoffman: Yep. Daniel: And that goes Vinehill? The one that connects to Vinehill? Hoffman: Yep. One goes Vinehill and the other keeps on following Minnetonka. Daniel: Is that already existing in place? Hoffman: Already existing. The curb cuts are there. We just have to go up to the curb cut and we’re done. Daniel: Okay. 9 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: There’s three Phase II playgrounds. These playgrounds are probably oh 7 or 8 years old now. Roundhouse Park, Sugarbush Park and Power Hill Park. Where you have a container large enough, or two containers to accommodate both a 5 through 12 and then a 2 through 5 age group. These are the 2 through 5 or the smaller kids. And so $30,000 for each of those. Picnic tables and benches, we have an annual contribution. Trees we have an annual contribution. Just give you an idea. This is called Fund 410. Revenue generated, approximately $600,000 per year over the last 5 years. It’s my recommendation you prepare a CIP for each of the next 5 years in the range of $400,000 to $600,000. With that in mind I’m recommending some modifications to next year’s CIP. First is removal of that 190, as we discussed. And then add the following 4 items. Our picnic pavilions are not sufficient to accommodate our current demand so we have more demand that we can accommodate and there’s plans for a Lake Ann Park, what is called the Parkview picnic shelter. This would be similar, but not exactly like our existing shelters. This is more of a slab on grade with a shelter up above. So more of a traditional type of a shelter. There’s a location right up at the top of Parkview in Lake Ann Park. There’s water there already. That has been up there for about 10 years so you’ve got direct access to water to the location. And you begin to allow the accommodation of a lot more activity in that park. You have a beautiful park which you’ve invested, the community’s invested a great deal of money in, but shelters really kind of make parks come alive with activity where you can have a focal point. People can get out of the hot sun. Underneath the shelter and they can have family reunions, weddings, graduation parties, those type of things. And take any questions once we’re done talking about it. Once I’m done with my presentation. Power Hill Park trail. This is moving ahead from 2008. If you’ve been out in that area at all, there’s a great deal of construction going on, and we want to finish up trails from the top of Power Hill all the way down the hill and then north through that neighborhood park to connect up to Mallory Court, Bluebill, and then up to the new development, so this will take what is currently a turf trail or a grass alignment. Put it into asphalt and so all those neighbors can start to travel back and forth in their park for both walking loops in the morning or evening. Getting to the playground. Getting to the sliding hill. And it’s $75,000 for that. Tennis court repair. We have needed repairs on I believe it’s the, we’re doing about 4 this year and 4 next year. So we’ve put $45,000 in for that. Same thing, we get calls from people that ask us why do we have these tennis courts out there if they’re not in decent condition to play? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, so we want to make sure that they’re in reasonable condition. Then a new initiative, the Minnetonka Middle School West is looking to build, they have 2 courts there now. They’re looking to build 6 more for a total of 8. They had a, I think it was 104 or 107 ninth grade girls try out for tennis and they have 2 courts. And so there’s a group of parents in the Minnetonka district… The budget is very large and we’re asking, we’re recommending, staff is recommending that the commission recommend to City Council make a contribution in good faith for that effort in the amount of $30,000 to assist with that tennis court project. The community does use all of our school parks. They’re in our park service areas. When we’re out planning parks in the area of Middle School West, we say oh, development B over here, we’re not going to give you a park because you have direct access to a school site where you go and play tennis and have access to ballfields and those type of things so, it stands to reason that we should contribute to those facilities from time to time. So if you add those in to the remaining mix, you have a total of $460,000 with the other items that we talked about earlier and I’ll answer any questions that the commission has and then ask that you 10 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 make a recommendation, either based on this list or any modifications to the City Council as a part of the budget process for the next year. Scharfenberg: Why don’t we do, we’ll do commissioners then we’ll ask Todd to comment. Jack, go ahead. Spizale: Everything looks pretty much in line here. I can really see the process of not doing the Arboretum Business Park. Tennis seems to be getting another, there seems to be a lot more people playing tennis. I can see the point of doing the tennis court. Looks good so far to me. Scharfenberg: Okay. Jeff. Daniel: The Parkview, is that as you’re heading north when you get in? Just before those parking lots that are stripe free, I take a sharp right. Is that that hill up there? Hoffman: Up on top of the hill. Daniel: Are the two volleyball courts still there? Hoffman: Yep. Daniel: Okay, so it’s on top of all the… Hoffman: Single volleyball court. Daniel: Or single, yeah. So right on top of the hill up there? Perfect. Okay. That’s about all, I was trying to mentally figure out where that was. That’s all. Scharfenberg: Anne. Murphy: For this tennis contribution for Middle School West, is that, what percentage of that is of the total cost? Hoffman: Less than 10. Murphy: Oh. I don’t see anything else. Scharfenberg: Then are those courts then maintained by the Minnetonka School districts? Hoffman: School district. Scharfenberg: Pat, would you like to address the commission? Pat Niles. Pat Niles: Hi, my name is Pat Niles. I’ve been here several times in the past. It wasn’t my intent necessarily to speak tonight but since the pavilion at Lake Ann was brought up, it’s the Little League’s intent to enter into a partnership with the surrounding community to possibly 11 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 include the facilities at Lake Ann Park and add a concession stand. The City and the Park and Rec Commission were generous enough to put up $60,000 for ballfield improvements for this year. It’s our hope to also enter into a three way partnership with the City as well to add that concession stand and if there’s any way to work into the plans, the addition of the pavilion, the picnic pavilion and the concession stand and work that all into one. I think that we would be interested in being involved in helping fund that. So that we can see, include concessions as some of you may or may not know, we hosted the first ever softball state tournament this last weekend and would like to increase that participation over the years. In addition to having baseball tournaments and so we feel that concessions are a necessary part of that experience. Thank you. Scharfenberg: Okay, thank you. And I know Todd, I think there has been discussions in the past about adding to that with bathroom facilities and everything, is that right? Hoffman: Correct. Scharfenberg: Yeah. Hoffman: And basically dismantling what you have there. Building around it. We have a myriad of electronics or electrical components that are mounted inside of that building for our timings. Timers for our lights and then just outside of the building you have electrical sub- stations or boxes for our lights and, you’ll be adding, we’ll only be adding to that in the future when we add additional fields. So you would keep the same internal structure. Build around it. We have sewer down at the pavilion at the lake, so you can run a sewer line down to that lift station. Extend a grinder pump that sends the waste water to Greenwood Shores Park to a lift station again. We also have water which runs directly underneath that location. So you have water and sewer available for modern toilets at that facility. But when you start talking that kind of construction, we’re into the $200,000 range minimal, depending on if you want to do it all at one shot or do it in phases, so the building that’s there is certainly not all to everybody. It was purchased by the American Legion probably back in ’87 or ’88. Something like that. Installed maybe in 1990. It actually just laid up there on the ground for a couple of years because the Legion didn’t have the manpower to get the thing installed so the City eventually installed it. It was back during the time when Lake Ann was only 3 fields I think even at that point. 1, 2 and 3. So there’s always been discussion about having a much nicer building at that location. It’s just a matter of priorities and when is the timing correct. Scharfenberg: What year in the CIP right now do we have for the additional lights? Is that 2008? Hoffman: 2008, $300,000 for 4 fields at Lake Ann. Or just 4 fields in general. Scharfenberg: And I’m assuming that they’re going to be doing the, that adding the lighting you’re going to have to be doing updating you know with electrical and stuff like that, and maybe that’s the time to do some of that is in 2008, if you’re going to do something with that facility would do a phase at that time or something at that time would seem to make sense. 12 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: There is, just so the commission is aware, there’s nothing that’s currently in the 5 year CIP for any type of improvement to that building. That’s not to say it hasn’t been discussed. The larger items coming up in future years are just that. Lighting in 2008. Makes up the primary, largest component. 2009 there’s a hockey boards and lights at Roundhouse Park for $105,000. And then a Roundhouse Park tennis courts for $100,000. And in 2010 there’s $275,000, and this is probably somewhere where you can start to think that, there’s always been a City Center Park shelter warming house for a number of $275,000 in the CIP, but the future of this property continues to grow more and more uncertain and as we continue on in our projection of a community, the need for additional parking on this site continues to grow and will that hockey rink on the grass and will that hockey rink inside the boards always be there? I can’t say. Give you a guarantee that it will be. And so why would you put a $275,000 building out there to accommodate that if those facilities are going to be in question. Are ballfields 1 through 6 at Lake Ann going to be there? I can safely say that I think they’re going to be there and so it would be a safe investment to potentially move that money away from building at this location into a building out at Lake Ann and start to program that into your future CIP. And that is just a mix, and we’ll talk about that. You have to hit a mix. Any CIP, you want to try to, if you put everything in one item and you’re going to have a single CIP where you’re going to do one project. Do you save $400,000 or $450,000 for Lake Ann Park, you’d better be able to withstand the discussion in the community that you’re not doing anything else in any other park in the community so you need to be prepared for that type of investment, and if we schedule it right, you can probably accomplish that. But if that’s a goal of the commission, and we can evaluate the CIP as we move forward and make some recommendations. There’s also future buildings at Bandimere that are in the, and future lights at Bandimere that are in the program. There’s a picnic shelter near the playground and then a ballfield building inbetween the 3 baseball fields, at 1, 2 and 3. So plenty of things on the master plans that are not identified in the CIP. Again that’s our job to bring forward the priorities. Something that a budget should always say, is a budget should be your priority. It should represent where are your priorities are in the community because you’re investing limited resources that will not always be there in this community and you want to make sure you get the first things done first, and let the ones that aren’t going to meet the test of time go to the wayside and that’s just how the commission should be thinking about these improvements as you move forward. Scharfenberg: Todd, at what meeting will we talk about the CIP and the next 5 years? Is that usually September or October or? Hoffman: Yeah, we could talk about it in August even. And that would give you time to report back to the council before they take up this year. Scharfenberg: So yeah, why don’t we do that. Alright, any other questions for Todd on the CIP? Hoffman: If you want to just continue this conversation then? Scharfenberg: Let’s do that. Let’s table it until August but I think what staff has come up with, I think we’re all agreeable from what we’ve heard tonight that the proposals that staff is making would be appropriate for changing. 13 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: Motion to table? Scharfenberg: Motion to table. Daniel: Second. Scharfenberg moved, Daniel seconded to table discussion on the 2007 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development Capital Improvement Program (CIP). All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2006 FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION. th Ruegemer: Just kind of going through, to just kind of give a preview. The 4 of July was again one of our, it keeps growing and growing and growing. We collected our thoughts and our breath here finally and kind of looked at the whole event as a whole. We’re going through budget and that right now. Planning for next year...whether it’s portable restrooms or food vendors or bigger tents, table, chairs, that whole thing. We’re growing from a one horse town into a city here, and that’s been fun to watch as well so, a lot of positive comments in regards to the nights that we did up here. The street dance, kids games and… Also from the parade. A lot of the comments about that I received, if any of you attended that. The parade was absolutely packed all the way around the route. It takes a lot of hard work from staff, the Rotary, community volunteers to make this event successful so. Hoffman: Also a few critiques on the parade… Ruegemer: So the Rotary’s just going to have a conversation and sit with the Chamber for the business fair. They certainly want to expand…so that is really growing in size and they’re talking about expanding their tent again next year. We’re looking at getting 80 foot wide tents next year. We had 60 wide this year. In fact how many years increasing in size so… It’s a pretty significant number so, we’re just kind of working through all that right now, as well as working on layouts again for next year, and that’s the sort of things we do so. I think Nate was surprised about all the different components of the event and you can see by the evaluation, there was a lot of thought put into each component on the celebration. Certainly we’re going to be working on improving, not only capacity but our service…customers. Also looking at adding new things. Whether that be a mini carnival of some sort or what, but really going to work on that even earlier this year after conversations about the parade and the Rotary and those types of things to improve the event for next year so. CBO seems to be really enjoyed. I think the community enjoys CBO being here so, it’s been a fun partnership with them. And just some suggestions for 2007. There’s a breakdown…just kind of a breakdown of the event. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Spizale: I thought it went… Scharfenberg:: I thought it went pretty well. 14 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Daniel: It was busy. A lot busier than t-shirts. Scharfenberg: Actually t-shirts picked up though towards the end of the night. I think there a lot of people… Daniel: I had a lot of positive comments on the design of the t-shirt. They really liked the type of design. My only recommendation, I think Paula and I shared this, is that next year they go with the toddler size t-shirts as well. Hoffman: More sizes. Daniel: Especially smaller, junior. Like the 4-T’s or the 2-T’s, whatever it may be. I think a lot of, probably every third or fourth asked if we had something beyond just a youth large, and that was, I think that really… Spizale: I’ve got one thought. You know it always seems like we get a lot of questions we can’t answer. I don’t know if you get a lot of people come up, where’s the first aid station? Where’s this? Where’s this? Where’s that. Maybe as you enter this area, there needs to be some kind of information booth or some type of things where people can get pamphlets or someone can ask questions because I don’t know if you guys, there’s always someone coming up and you know where’s this? Where’s, you know… Murphy: A lot of questions on where to buy tickets. Where to buy ride tickets. Spizale: Some we can answer. Some we can’t. Maybe something as you come in, a person greeting them. Handing out things. Asking questions. Somebody you could call for first aid. Just a thought. I’ve noticed that the last couple years. Hoffman: We may just be able to make it an additional component of your operation with some additional people there, or some additional information added training before we get into the event. I really like our park commissioner Spizale…really working it. Spizale: Well yeah, that might be a good idea. So maybe it could say information on it. Hoffman: Absolutely. Information. First aid. Lost and found. We could make it all of those things. Have the appropriate people there. As the event gets bigger, more and more stuff takes place. Lost kids. Lost and found. I can’t remember, I can’t recall how many eye glasses we found after this thing. Murphy: Well that could go hand in hand with the announcements during the band, because the band had some pretty long breaks in there. If we’re going to do announcements then. You could announce where lost and found or first aid are. Spizale: That’s a good idea. 15 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Scharfenberg: Overall thought I think staff needs to be commended for the job that they did. It was wonderful. Kids fishing contest. All of that stuff was very well attended and I know my kids had a wonderful time. Hoffman: Great. Daniel: A very good job. Hoffman: It’s going to get bigger… If you were around last year, last year was a dramatic jump from the year before and this year was again. Not just a little jump. It was fairly dramatic. A thousand. We got good compliments from our public safety officials. Well behaved crowd. If you were there, at the end it cleared out very rapidly. No issues with the downtown. We did not receive any complaints from our business community at the conclusion of the event so those are all good signs. Spizale: Todd, is there any problem with parking at this point yet? Hoffman: Well obviously parking is festival style parking. They keep going back, back in the neighborhood, but…this time again, no parking complaints from either of the neighborhoods or the business community this year. Daniel: I think the only complaint was the fact that Chanhassen Elementary had 50 million tons of rock sitting there in their parking lot. So the 12 or 15 cars got lucky enough to park tight in there made it. Hoffman: That took out 60 stalls. That was the rock for the city street…project. Sealcoating. Daniel: And also the other comment, which I’ve noticed much, a great improvement is the amount of tables that were available. I remember 3 or 4 years ago you had your food on the table outside of the tent were along the fence line, and that was it. Now you have a ton of tables inbetween, plus when the business expo ended, all those tables were freed up. It was just a great job. Nobody had any problems. None of us had any problem trying to find a spot to sit down. Hoffman: What’d we have, 30 this year. Ruegemer: Actually I had 50 addition than last year. We increased seating capacity by 300 plus. Then we’re going to do that again, probably 400 plus so 700 plus in the last 2 years. Yeah, we’re looking at all those components and we’re going from about 25 probably to 40 restrooms next year for the parade and up here. So it just increases capacity and the overall experience. We don’t want people a half hour in the bathroom line and that sort of thing too so. Daniel: We had several neighbors in our neighborhood went for the first time and really had a great time. They were impressed and I guess now educated on just how good of a time it is so. It’s our probably one year community get together. 16 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: The band. They really connect with that crowd and they claim it’s their favorite event of the year, and they’ve got a pretty big schedule. They see a lot of the country. Murphy: I like the parking map too for the fireworks. We get a lot of people wandering into our yard. For the fireworks. They claim they don’t, they think they can sit up on our hill. Hoffman: Oh yeah. Oh I imagine. Murphy: It’s like oh, who are you? So the whole neighborhood complains about that. We get a lot of strangers in our neighborhood. Hoffman: They park in the road and then they want to walk up and sit on top of the berm. Murphy: Yep. Hoffman: Well the parking map unfortunately won’t take care of that. Murphy: It won’t help that. Hoffman: No. You’ll have your berm people. FALL SOFTBALL LEAGUE REPORT. th Ruegemer: Fall softball league is starting up again the week of August 15. We’re just finishing up summer. Well we’ll still be going a little bit with summer when the fall starts here so, information is out on the streets right now. Thursday is just about full. Thursday night and Tuesday. We also have teams signed up for that and I think…schedule of Wednesday night year too…demand for that so. Double headers again this year. 55 minute time limit and 3-2 count that kind of speeds up the game a little bit too and people enjoy the double header with that. Just about at capacity on Thursday nights and we’ll get those schedules out about the first week in August, depending on when the teams get their checks and rosters and stuff in so. But it’s going good. Teams really like the relaxed atmosphere and playing down at Lake Ann. We’ll go 6 weeks and end up probably the third week in September, without rain out’s… We generally schedule, we’ll have football going on at the same time for the Chaska Area Football Association will be using Lake Ann fields on Mondays and probably on Saturdays for sure. They’ll be running lights as well during those times and they’ll schedule some games probably after we get down with softball the first part of October. Scharfenberg: Alright. CARVER BEACH PARK NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Scharfenberg, members of the commission. Wanted to bring you up to date on some neighborhood interaction that both Chair Stolar and I had with the neighborhood. And actually the City Council, over the past couple of months. This spring I was walking down at Carver Beach Park and we had extra boulevard trees from our boulevard tree 17 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 planting program that Jill Sinclair manages, and we’re very fortunate to be the benefactor of those leftover trees, if she has them, we go ahead and identify park locations where they can be accommodated. There was an open area on Lotus Trail and I thought now this is a good location that could accommodate a couple of trees, so we identified 3 on the main park, and there’s a picture in there, and then 2 down the road. We happened to stumble into one of the neighbors and at the time he didn’t seem too opposed to it. It was Mr. Gunderson right across from this location, and he voiced no opposition at that time. But later on he came to the council meeting, at a June council meeting. Brought quite a few of his neighbors in and made a fairly long visitor presentation about their disapproval of this plan to plant these trees. Council directed staff to go meet with them. I asked Chairman Stolar to come out as well. There was unanimous agreement among the neighbors that they didn’t want to see the trees planted for a variety of reasons, but mainly that the parkway is fully forested up and down it’s entire length, which is very long, except for this one location, and it’s not just in their view, it’s not just the neighbors that live directly across from this opening that benefit, but the people that walk in this area. They get to stop and look out at the lake. People also drive and stuff and look out at the lake. And the fact that it’s always been that way, they didn’t see it want to be changed and so we concurred. That was our thought process going into the meeting is that it, if they had a neighborhood consensus, we weren’t going to attempt to change that opinion. More importantly what this interaction allowed is some good discussion. This is a neighborhood that at times feels put out. It’s an older neighborhood and they think they’re not getting the same attention as some of the newer neighborhoods in town and so, they truly appreciated the opportunity to talk with us for a couple of hours. We have the job list there that has been identified. I think it’s a good opportunity for the City and the commission to connect with the neighborhood and once they, we accomplish these things and they see that there’s been some follow through by staff and the city, and the commission, that they’ll be pleased and feel generally that the process worked on their behalf. So we will be taking these projects into our work plan. We also have the opportunity to bring in an Eagle Scout to complete a wood chipping project for the trail in that location. And again, since this was a fairly well discussed issue at the council level, I wanted to bring it to your attention so you knew what was going on as well. You familiar with that area? Daniel: Absolutely. My only concern with woodchips is, a good portion of that stuff will be washed right out. That’s the only issue. I mean if it’s really nice, I mean obviously on rainy days you’re going to let it dry, which usually takes a while because it’s really shaded, but it truly is, if you haven’t had a chance to walk that area, it’s one of the most beautiful parts of Chanhassen. Absolutely. And just for that one quarter mile walk, or whatever it may be. Hoffman: I’ll have the Eagle Scout work on that. They may rock some of the areas where the ravines go across because you’re right, you’re going to get a lot of washing. An Eagle Scout a number of years ago did, it was probably 20 years ago the last time they wood chipped it so obviously that’s all gone but the neighborhood appreciated it. They liked it. Keeps the mud down a little bit. Scharfenberg: Any other discussion? 18 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. Spizale: Yeah, just that this year I’m doing more biking than I ever have because of our trails and I’ve been using the new map that was put out, which is great, but I know they’re still working on their…but there are very few if any markers for the trail. Sometimes I kind of think as a person that doesn’t know the trail, so I kind of followed my wife and she had just a really hard time finding where they came into different neighborhoods and stuff, and it got me to think about it a little bit. If I’m having some problems, I’m sure that a lot of the new people that are getting into our trails are also having problems, especially if you don’t have a map. What is the process of marking these trails? I know you’re kind of waiting a little bit for them to be completed but can we be putting up a couple, some type of markers to facilitate the start? Where are we at? Hoffman: It’s interesting that you bring it up. Where we’re at is, today I’m not convinced that it’s a program we should be getting into, and primarily it’s because of the expense of the signage package that would be required and the time that it would take to maintain that. In any program you initiate, you want to make sure, and that’s not to say it shouldn’t be done Jack. Is that you need to weigh the benefits against what you’re going to get involved in because we have a limited budget. We have a limited amount of people. So let’s say we have 40-50 miles of trail that you’re going to mark, and Minnetonka does this so it’s not like it’s not being done. Minnetonka says this is a priority. We want to mark. They have stop. Yield. Turn. Curve. You know location. The whole ball of wax. And they’re typically just the smaller, it’s like taking street signs. Miniaturizing them and then starting to put them out on your trail system. So should, can we investigate that? Sure. We can investigate that for the commission if you feel that’s something you want to take a look at. Can we start at a minimal, you can start at a minimum level. You know can you take it to you know the nth degree. Yeah, I think you can. You know there’s all sorts of different signs. Once we start, people are going to say well you didn’t mark that. You didn’t mark this. You didn’t mark this, so you’d have to come up with a general consensus, and then signs, if you know anybody in public works, signs are a nightmare. I mean I don’t care, street signs are absolutely necessary…go out there and get them maintained and so I want to make sure the community is fully behind that type of program before I would start to advocate for it and push it forward. To date I’ve been probably the main person who said that’s something we’re not going to look at because once we get into it, it’s just going to be a downward slide and we’re going to invest a lot of money and time. But do I hear, I hear from people you know fairly often actually, or from time to time when they say hey, I couldn’t find my way. That’s one reason we published the map, but then we had on there, not all, some people have a more difficult time trying to follow the natural progression of the trails than others, so it would be helpful I think. Spizale: At the very minimum, at least maybe a marker maybe where the trail starts. You know it’s, I noticed in some of these neighborhoods it starts in the neighborhood. If you didn’t know where one block off of Galpin there, or if you didn’t know it was back in that neighborhood, you wouldn’t be able to find it without a map. Hoffman: Well, that’s neighborhood knowledge. 19 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Spizale: Right, right. Right, and like I said, I just kind of look at it from a new person kind of driving through it and it really is a little bit confusing. Do we need a trail head of some sort? Maybe just very simple signage. Hoffman: It’s not the only thing we’ve looked at signage. We have, often times people come from out of town to find a park for a ball game and there’s no, some communities, so let’s take a cross street. Let’s say Kerber and Nez Perce and let’s put a sign there. It will be a brown sign. It will say Carver Beach Park with an arrow pointed towards the park, and we have not gone to that level as of yet either so, another saying a community lasts forever. There’s always time to do these good projects. It’s just when is the right time to go ahead and do them so. It’s something that I can certainly spend some time investigating. Talk to some of my colleagues. See who’s done it. Who’s not. It would actually make a good program session for one of our fall conferences to talk about signage on trail systems because in the metropolitan area, there’s trail systems are getting very elaborate and some people are doing signage and others are not. It’d be interesting to talk about that and see the experiences that each one of those communities think. Other thoughts on that? Murphy: Does Minnetonka mark all their trails? Hoffman: Yes. They have a trail coordinator who’s in charge of that whole position. So their trail coordinator would be like a park director. So we would have a park director and a trail coordinator. Trail coordinator manages the park trails and the signage. Daniel: …doggy bag signs and all those little fun things. Hoffman: In fact we’ve stayed away from the doggy bags as well. Scharfenberg: It might be a good idea Todd to ultimately think about if they’re going to do something like that, would be to prioritize maybe what trails we want, would we for example once Bluff Creek, once that whole Bluff Creek trail gets completed, I would think that that would be one of our main trails. Along with whatever ones, and then put in some trail heads or something kind of identifying distances and. Hoffman: It also has a destination. People might want to be going somewhere and they have to take an off shoot, and if you put a sign there. Spizale: It’s just from doing…all different types of, you know some people are joggers. Some people are walking their dogs. Some people are, a lot of people are biking. Something they could, we’ve done such a great job of building these trails and everybody uses them so much, and a lot of people are still discovered the trails. I’m amazed at how many of my neighbors that know some of the spots that I’ve been and so, I think it’s something to give some thought to. You know, expose it to people so they know where it’s at. Hoffman: It is fun to see the people out on the trails. I mean I turned onto Lake Lucy Road one day I thought what is going on? A circus. I mean there was 20 people with different, you know 20 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 all different modes right there on that off street trail and I just imaged how happy these people were that have that off street trail now finally. Daniel: You have no idea. I live right off of Lake Lucy and that, I was just going to make a comment on that. There isn’t a moment, and that’s from the time I go to bed to the time, from the time I get up to the time I go to bed that somebody is not, there’s several people are always on Lake Lucy. I just couldn’t imagine, based on the fact that, I mean it has helped that…the cars have slowed down, and the amount of activity that’s on that trail. So I think it was a wonderful investment. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Scharfenberg: Looks like on the, at least the memo on skate park that the attendants is working out. That’s kind of working out well. Ruegemer: Yeah. Yeah, we have Matt Juelich from Chanhassen down by Stone Creek, and it was really kind of, that was his first experience…Chanhassen skate park and he’s got a little interest…and doing a good job out there… Scharfenberg: How have things been at the park? Have they been pretty good this summer? Ruegemer: In my opinion I think they have…but I haven’t really heard of any problems that have been…Garbage seems to be kind of keeping in check…and there does not seem to be a lot of garbage right around. There certainly is some but not like it has been in the past so...educating people. There certainly is always the fringe…but you’re not going to cure everything over night so…it’s nice to have some kind of concrete numbers as well to kind of see who’s using the skate park. We’re certainly looking forward to 2007… Daniel: Have you had any feedback from parents? Ruegemer: I think parents like it. There seems to be younger kids kind of coming back… It’s a position in progress and we’re certainly trying to accommodate the people but certainly just inform people. Here’s the rules. Here’s what…so it’s really a community you know position out there. We’re really trying to get people out there and really give the skate park a positive light again so. Hoffman: Saw the Villager article? Daniel: Yep. Hoffman: That was in there. On the back page. Three questions so that gives you a profile on the position that he has. Scharfenberg: Any other questions relative to the administrative packet? 21 Park and Rec Commission – July 25, 2006 Hoffman: It’s fun to read the reservation memos and the one, you’ll note that somebody did review the, reserve the hillside picnic area and they didn’t think there was enough there for the money so a shelter would help. Scharfenberg: One thing before we end. Is there a rule or are there rules at Lake Ann for smoking at the beach? Hoffman: I don’t believe so. Ruegemer: I don’t think there is. Scharfenberg: Okay. Ruegemer: There was discussions about that. Back a couple years ago I suppose. Hoffman: And depending on the lifeguards, some may shoo them out of the sand area. But there is no, we’ll check the ordinance for you. There might be something on sand areas. Scharfenberg: I just looked at Sunday with some signage down there and I didn’t see anything that said anything about smoking. Hoffman: It might be in our ordinance. The whole smoking issue is handled a variety of ways across the state and park and rec areas. Some are completely banned. Some are modified banned. Chanhassen’s fairly open and we’ve addressed that at the council I believe once. A couple of times now over the past 10 years and there hasn’t been any consensus that we should be heading that direction. But we’ll check for you. I just can’t recall the specifics. Scharfenberg: Okay. Motion to adjourn? Murphy moved, Spizale seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 22