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PRC 2006 09 26 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 26, 2006 Chairman Stolar called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Glenn Stolar, Jack Spizale, Jeff Daniel, Anne Murphy, Steve Scharfenberg, and Tom Kelly MEMBERS ABSENT: Paula Atkins STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; Susan Bill, Senior Center Coordinator; Nate Rosa, Recreation Supervisor; Tom Knowles, Recreation Center Manager; and Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Spizale moved, Murphy seconded to approve the agenda, amended by Chairman Stolar who asked to discuss the joint City Council and Park and Recreation Commission meeting, provide a update from the City th Council meeting he attended on September 25 and to allow Susan Bill to provide the Senior Center update at the beginning of the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. SENIOR CENTER REPORT. Bill: I apologize for…but I do appreciate it. Well good evening and thank you. I just want to report, as always the activities and programs over the past 3 months at the senior center have been great. The highlight of the past 3 months was our second annual tea luncheon where we had 65 women with a fashion show, and the unique thing about this that I wanted to highlight it was I partnered with C & J Coffee folks and Maggie Moo's and Inside Out so they sponsored, they paid for the entertainment. But then I also got the…and they brought some gifts and did door prizes and so it was really, really a nice situation where it gave them more exposure and I'm always looking to promote businesses so that was a really, really well attended event and everyone had a great time. Also I'm all about community and partnership. Lakewinds Foods, I've had them give a presentation on a few occasions and in August we went over and had a store tour. And I'm working with them, I noticed that they offered a number of programs in Minnetonka where they teach classes, and so I'm trying to get some of their instructors maybe to do a few classes here at the senior center on health foods and some of the things they're trying to promote. Our day trips this summer have been wonderful. We offer one day trip per month and every one of them was full…and it's kind of hard because we struggle, we did a Centennial Showboat trip and the cost was $63.00. We were really worried and all our day trips we partner with Chaska. We…coach bus with 37 passengers and we really try to be sensitive to the cost so we try to offer some, ones more reasonable and then some at a little higher expense. And the Showboat at $63.00, we had a waiting list of 22 people. Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 So you just never know so, but the programs have been going wonderful. Wood carving group, they still continue to carve. Now they're up to carving 2 days a week. They're coming on Friday mornings. Over the summer it was really nice to see a number of the wood carvers brought grandchildren or some neighbor. Young boys in and they were teaching carving, kind of more on an informal basis so at least we can think every now and then we'll do like an intergenerational wood carving day. I do get requests from schools to bring groups in to watch and observe wood carving. We've done that on a few occasions but it's not a real conducive room to do that but when the opportunity presents itself, Chan Elementary has come over, so a couple times a year we do have groups that come in for that. Defensive Driving classes continue to be wonderful. We offer twelve 4 hour classes per year. Six 8 hour classes per year and then 4 hour refresher classes usually have 20 to 25 people, and they're traditionally…because they're younger for 55. But traditionally people who don't see all the number of our other programs but it's always an opportunity for me to introduce the programs and a variety of activities. And what the underlying consent is, when they walk away, they can't believe what a beautiful space we have and what a great location so I think that's a compliment to this city for providing us such a nice environment. And lastly we are working with the Friends of the Library for the Barkas Parade. They invited us to have a bake sale and we do make greeting cards and gift bags so we sold our greeting cards and gift bags as well as participated in the Barkas Parade, and we will now also do the library, the…end of thth October. The October 27 and 28, and do our greeting cards and gift bags. So it's a nice way to partner with them and we've been really appreciative to have us be visible. That's… Stolar: Any questions? Spizale: Yeah, one question. What's the beginning age for seniors? Bill: 55. Spizale: 55. And the oldest senior there is? Bill: 92. Spizale: Okay. So they can start at 55? Bill: You can start. Not a lot of people… I asked, looking to start a new program in 2007 through Augsburg College and I went to an organization in town and asked for some money to help sponsor the program to offset the cost and the woman, the president of this organization asked me that same question and I said well, 55 because we use the AARP guidelines, and she said oh, I'm 54. I classify myself in that category. But that's the whole point is to offer, what I'm trying to do is offer a more of the variety of programming to engage some things that would be more attractive to younger, older adults. Not just the bingo and cards so. Stolar: Great. Other questions. Alright, thank you Susan. 2 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Bill: I appreciate it. Stolar: Okay, back to the regular agenda. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Murphy moved, Daniel seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated August 22, 2006 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. 2006 LAKE ANN CONCESSION/BOAT RENTAL EVALUATION. Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Stolar and good evening Park and Rec Commission. Let me go through the 2006 Lake Ann Park concession and boat rental operation for the summer. We were very fortunate to have a nice, warm season again. Started off with a great Memorial weekend. Our number one Memorial weekend as far as sales ever. We really, really started off really with a jump start and tailed off at the end as we normally do in August. Had a good kind of tail end of June. First part of July. Mid July was good. We didn't have a whole lot of rain days, which was helpful. We did replace one of the aging paddle boats this year with a brand new 4 person, 4 by 4 paddle boat cycle so that was really popular. We have 2 of those bigger ones now and the rest of Aqua cycles. We have it in 2007, in the budget again for another 4 by 4 to get rid of the last remaining paddle boat from the original purchase in 1992 or 3 with that so. Knock on wood, we've had pretty good luck this year with having all the paddle boats in operation at one time without bent rudders and broken pedals and that sort of things we have in the past so, thanks again to Dale and his crew for keeping those up and going. So we've tried a few different things this year with different ice cream flavors, which were popular. We still kind of held on to our old staples with the meal deals. Those are popular with people getting hot dogs, chips and soda for a reasonable price for that. We tried something different this year as far as having the hours of operation stay open an hour later during the season. Longer than they had in the past. That was okay in July but really in August it really kind of tail off and we were paying staff there and kind of once we started, they kind of had to keep that way to the end but we did monitor that throughout the course of the season so that's certainly something that we want to look at for next year and probably not do that in August at minimum. But we, we're always looking for ways to kind of streamline the operation. Simplify, you know kind of keep it little quick point sale. Get things that people like down there. Hot dogs are very, very popular down there. We couldn't keep up. The Miracles for Mitch Triathlon we were going gang busters on hot dogs so, those are always very popular. And we always keep an eye on, you know if we need new equipment, life jackets, that sort of thing. We did get brand new counter tops there the tail end of the summer. They were in pretty tough shape with the counter tops. The condition that they were in, so we did find some money in the 3 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 budget to purchase that, and…for next year with that. Replaced a metal door down there. The bathrooms down there. That was rusted out and in pretty tough shape so we did that, so we're kind of trying to make some small improvements each year if we can. And improve that down there so, had a great staff again down there. We added a staff member this year. We've always got 3, or 3 for quite a while and we added a fourth person to help out with some at weekend time and some other, we've had some other workers down there that have had some different jobs and that sort of thing so we covered all the hours down there. Had a good rotation of kids. Everybody was post high school and college aged kids. Senior and college aged kids so it looks like they're willing to come back again next year so that's great for me, so we don't have to re-train everybody again so that really was a nice summer. Didn't have any problems with any staff this year. They really worked well. Got along great together. Really worked hard together so it was a good summer. Stolar: Okay. Are there any questions or did you want to go through the? Ruegemer: I don't think I need to go through everything but just for the commission's reference, we did include the '05 and '06 totals in all categories from rentals to expenditures. We're pretty even all the way down if that's consistent with our expenditures and revenues and staff wages, that sort of thing here too so, if you have any questions we can go through that. Spizale: I've got one question. Is there a reason you don't have kayaks to rent? Ruegemer: Yes and no. We've had some requests in the past for that and you know, my thought behind that was you know, if we get a kayak it'd have to really an open face one and not one that you have to really get in there. I think if you get the right one it would probably work with that. In looking at kind of the overall, we can rent, I mean it might be fun but it seems like I mean we get the rentals out of the paddle boats. To go that route it wouldn't be that expensive probably to purchase a kayak but it's kind of a specialized type of thing. Stolar: Other questions? No? I have a couple of quick clarifications. You did replace the counter top you said towards the end of the season? And then this other point about the cooler. Is that in the budget for '07? The new soda cooler. Ruegemer: Oh those are just, the soda coolers are just loaners from Coke so we had their division come out and take a look at those and you know throughout the course of the past couple years they've replaced compressors and lights and all this sorts of stuff so, those are loaners so…we had service out there a couple times during the summer and they obviously get it worked out so, so we didn't pay anything for those. Stolar: Okay. One other question. I think ice, is there a thought to maybe look at offering to sell ice there? For people who. Ruegemer: There really isn't a water source. 4 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: No, the bagged ice like you know. Ruegemer: Oh, bagged ice? Stolar: Yeah. Ruegemer: I don't know that we have the capacity, freezer capacity to house that. Hoffman: But if you put one. We'd just have to contract one. Stolar: You consign them basically. You have the company come out there and they would own it and we'd just get a fraction of the cost. I think that's how some of the gas stations do it so they just do it on consignment. Ruegemer: I guess I haven't looked into that. I can. Stolar: Because when I was out there, we rented the shelter, my company did and people were, oh where's the ice? Well it'd be something to think about, but it was very, the staff comment I think is very important because when we have my company out there, the staff was awesome. They're fantastic. We did the boat rentals and they were really helpful and really nice so my compliments to them. Tom? Kelly: No, nothing. Stolar: Steve? Thanks. Hoffman: We cut our loses in half. Stolar: Always something to shoot for. Hoffman: We'll be in the black. Stolar: People have a good time when they're out there so that's worth it, right? Hoffman: That's right. It's a great service. Stolar: Alright, old business. RECOMMENDATION CONCERNING FIVE YEAR PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CIP. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Stolar and good evening commission members. This is a continuation of a conversation we started last meeting, and just want to provide a brief overview of park, actually what it's called is the park and trail acquisition and development capital improvement program (CIP) on an annual basis. And so we have an 5 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 annual CIP and then we have a 5 year CIP. The funding source for all of our capital improvements, or primarily all of them. There are a few that are funded out of the general fund budget, is park dedication fees. These fees are collected at the time of development within our community for both residential, commercial and industrial. The 2005 MUSA area has brought on line a good many units, housing units in our community and has generated a good amount of cash into this fund in the past 18 months or so. There's been a switch in how we collect these dollars. If you want to call it the olden days, in the olden days we collected it all at the time of building permit, so the developer didn't pay anything. When a person brought their building permit in, if that was an individual or a company, we assigned a dollar amount there and then we collected it at the time of the building permit and then it was allocated and put in an appropriate fund. And then the commission had a conversation with the council. They say you know that really doesn't give us any money up front to do park development. You know we've got this land. We just acquired from this neighborhood. There's not very many houses being built. We want to go out there and build a park so we can provide this neighborhood with a park. We don't have any cash in the fund. So the developer's really lobbied against charging anything at the time of plat because they wanted to push these costs on down the line, so the recommendation was to collect a one-third at the time of platting, and then two-thirds at the time of building permit. Well this became an accounting and bookkeeping challenge over the years as fees would increase and then you would have to go back and take a look at who was paying what, when. And so for the past half a dozen years or so, we simply went to the fact that these are all paid at the time of plat so when all of these developments down in the 2005 MUSA came in and said we're going to build 455 units, we said 455 units times the park dedication fee and we assign that fee at the time of plat and then they pay it. So that's a much more efficient way of collecting these fees. It puts a good amount of money into the bank, but then you also have to allocate that over a period of time to accomplish the improvements that are going to be completed in that area. So the fund is doing well. It's up over $2 million. I think you all received the email that I sent out and we have a variety of improvements that are coming on line that we'll have to allocate those dollars for. So we're attempting to budget those on an annual basis and what we've, working towards is the completion of a variety, primarily trail projects, and I'll go over them on the map. Over the next 5 years. And these are all incorporated into the development contracts with these individual property developers. When they come into the city, you work up a development contract with then. It says developer you shall do this. You shall complete streets. Public improvements. And then it also says the City, you shall you know do this. And on our side we are making a commitment to these applicants that we will complete, or we will pay for these trail improvements that are going in as a part of their developments, and so we have some costs that we have booked or incurred into the future that we have to budget and allocate for. And that is changing the way our 5 year CIP looks. There have been some things that have been on there that have been pushed out or bumped off to make way for these new developments. In addition I'm recommending that we keep at least a million dollars unencumbered, not allocated, in our fund for opportunities that come on down the line. There's always going to be something in this time of rapid development that comes up and presents itself to the city. The commission may want to make a recommendation to act on it to the council. The council may have an opportunity that they want to talk to the 6 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 park commission about and if there's no cash in the bank, you're not going to be in a position to take advantage of that. That may be land acquisition. It might be a partnership. It might be a grant. Matching grant. We're not done with under passes and over passes yet I don't think in this community. We have some future responsibility I think to tie Bandimere up with Fox Woods that hasn't been planned yet. Going underneath or over Highway 101. When that, that's the 2010 MUSA so when we get down there, if you start to envision well how is this neighborhood going to come together, and there is no plan to date for getting under or over 101, but it should happen at that location so there's some things that are coming down the line. Even sooner than that is the Highway 41 underpass. That is budgeted at 115 but we may have, find ourselves in a position where we'll have to you know foot additional part of that cost if it happens so, there's some things that we want to save some money for. Let me go through the chart with you. Flip through the spread sheet. 2007 through 2011. There have been some additions in 2007, primarily the top one. $151,000 for land acquisition and that is coming out of a, it's kind of a late in the game type of negotiation with, sorry. These 5 lots in the Preserve, which is being the Degler, Gayle and Lois Degler farm being developed at this location by Rottlund. These lots were taken out. We said we don't like how those lots work. They're not connected to the rest of the housing development. They're our entry to a planned future industrial area, or industrial/commercial type park. And we have other ideas for that property and among them are stormwater ponds for when Audubon Road is improved. The stormwater coming down off Audubon needs to be ponded. We also have a significant public resource that we built here. It's a bridge over the top of the creek, and that bridge is going to take some pretty significant touch down points and take off points. We're not quite sure how the alignment's going to be situated, so we have a trail head opportunity to bring people into a trail head type of a farming area because we think this resource, with a trail heading south and heading north is an area that the people would drive to. Get out of their vehicles and then take an experience on the trails. So ponding, trail head and just the fact that those houses don't fit very well in there. And this open space, this little open space, approximately 3 acres, 3 1/2 acres, provides a view shed. In the Highway 5 corridor during that whole study it was very important that view shed be maintained so people as you're driving through the community, they can see down these natural corridors. It enhances the value of those corridors and these houses would block that. By taking those out you allow that view up and down this corridor and it really invites you into that area to come back in this area too. With houses there, you can't see into it. So $151,000 is our share, again kind of a…acquisition, negotiation. The developer didn't want to do it. We negotiated, allowed some of those lots. When I say we, that's the planning staff, council, administration to allow some of those lots to go back onto here and, in this area. Increase the density and then there'll be a payment from sewer and water utilities for the bonding and then the park dedication fund for the parkland. Stolar: So how much is the total area? Hoffman: About 3 1/2 acres. Something like that. Stolar: And of that we think we'll just have the trailhead basically. 7 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Hoffman: Trailhead and then the, yes, the trailhead and the touch down points and there'll be a pond there. There may be space for something in the future. Playground. Stolar: It's open space. Hoffman: The neighborhood might start to adopt it a little bit you know…neighbors might ask for something in the future but it was a good acquisition. Daniel: In new developments like that Todd, are there going to be any type of signage as far as a map key or anything of that nature? Hoffman: For the trails? Daniel: Yeah. Especially with a trail head point where there might be a sign pointing out, here's where you are. Here's the map of the city. Not necessarily, or maybe within that section. Hoffman: We may at the trail head, especially if the round about's out there…might be something to look into. My fear when we start talking about trail signage is we have 54 miles of trails. Using simple math, if you start to do any kind of a comprehensive trail signage package you're going to be, 54 miles probably, you know probably 20 signs a mile, or something like that so it comes into a thousand signage in a hurry…and where do you go from there. But in this kind of area, trail heads, you could have some sort of a kiosk. Daniel: Yeah. Nothing that would you know, as far as signage along the trails themselves, but act like a kiosk where you can, especially at the trail points. I know we have them designated already throughout the city but, at least that way they can kind of get a reference point where they can have, what's… Hoffman: Other questions about 2007 before I move on? You have athletic field lighting at 150. Lake Ann Park shelter, 95. Power Hill Park trail, 75. That's being graded in right now. Tennis court repair to finish off the remaining tennis courts that were not touched this year. The Minnetonka Middle School tennis project. That's a contribution on about a quarter million dollar project that a parents group is trying to get going. Both in Middle School West and Middle School East. And then picnic tables and benches… Stolar: The other thing, I know it's not 2007 but the athletic field lighting. We have this split into two areas so part of this process that you've listed here is to push the rest out to pass these years? Hoffman: Correct. Stolar: Okay. 8 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Hoffman: Because you don't…but they may come back but primarily that's because of all those things that are coming on along and athletic field lighting, as anybody knows, it can happen anytime. Nice to get it done but there's some of these things that are in demand as they come along. Anything else in 2007? Stolar: Just another quick question. Picnic tables, benches and annual tree contribution. That's remained the same for how long? Hoffman: Well we upped it. Stolar: About 3 years ago? Hoffman: Yeah. We upped it a little bit and it's, some years we don't spend it. We do inventory and some years we do more tree planting… Stolar: Okay. Hoffman: Okay. Moving into 2008. The top one, $150,000. That's Pioneer Pass Park, and that's just acquisition. It's just over 4 acres. About 4 3/4 acres there at that location. Commissioners recall, you looked at acquiring a larger parcel of land in the Preserve. That did not work out…at Pioneer Pass. The applicant, D.R. Horton walked away from that project. Did not follow through with their purchase agreement with Sever Peterson and his partner on the property. An LLC, Limited Liability Corporation made up of 4 local builders picked it up and they did pay less per acre. I think the original purchase price was about $235,000 per acre and they ended up paying around $182,000 per acre for that land. This acquisition is just being finalized. They're closing Thursday. Our part of this will be 3.97 acres in dedication. And then .93 acres in acquisition, so we will pay the .93 times the 182. So it comes out to be about $169,000 for that just under an acre. The price of acquiring parks has gone up. Spizale: So why do we get the acreage so much cheaper than the going rate? Hoffman: We're not. We're paying the going rate. The first 3 1/2 or 3 and 3/4 acres was acquired in lieu of taking park fees. Spizale: Oh, okay. Hoffman: So what they have to pay in park fees on all these lots, we took the property and that's based off the formula in the memo… Spizale: Okay. Hoffman: So that will very effectively serve the south side of the MUSA area. The north side will obviously have access to it but it will be a little bit farther… Stolar: The green areas on there, those are the bluff. 9 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Hoffman: Bluff Creek Preserve and park areas that will be preserved. And these are being, where the trail flows through so that's, go give you a sense of the kind of experience you're going to have down in there. We'll take a tour if we can before the end of the year. These public roads are being built and it gives you a real sense of what it looks like or what it's going to end up looking like. So the $150,000 is not for acquisition. It's for the development of the property. Highway 101 north trail connection, $114,000. And that's to connect up the trail from Pleasant View right here down to the existing trail and then north to Minnetonka and Eden Prairie. So that's this section of trail that that's referencing. And then the lakeside trail is a section of trail, the 60,000 that's being built down off of Lake Riley in front of the new development. So they're going to have to continue this section of trail into Eden Prairie that's on Lyman Boulevard as a part of our comprehensive trail plan. They build it. They put it in as a part of the public improvements. We pay them back for that section of trail. And that finishes out in 2008. Stolar: So the purchase price for the Pioneer Pass Park, where's that on here because you said the 150's for development. Hoffman: Oh, then I misspoke, excuse me. 150's for acquisition. Stolar: Okay. So when do we want to plan for the development of that? Hoffman: Probably in, well if you think about the build out of that area will start in 2008. Houses probably be in there 2009, so as we continue modifying this, we're going to want to look to do something there. They're going to grade it. Build the parking lot and so we'll have a clean site, ready to go. Seeded with a parking lot. Stolar: So somewhere in 2009 probably. Hoffman: Playground. Stolar: Okay. Hoffman: Any questions in 2008? Okay, 2009. This is where we start to get larger because the projects are more involved. The Preserve trail and bridge is the bridge that I talked about earlier. At that location and then the trail is the trail that follows the creek way and comes up to the road and then goes under the…and their property actually goes down to this location. So that section of trail's being built in the second phase of the Preserve. They're starting the first phase here. Second phase will come in the middle. And the third phase will be at the top, so they're starting down here. They've got 2 model homes going. Second phase and then third phase. They'll build this trail in the second phase and when they're done and we've approved the project and taken a look at the bids, then we'll go ahead and pay them back for the prices that we've approved. And the bridge, the big part of that cost is obviously the trail as well. $175,000 is the Liberty at Creekside trail and that just continues and takes the trail from where it stops at the 10 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 property line, and then picks it up and takes it down through the bridge at Highway 212… Currently we don't have this last section. It may be built as a part of a road project that comes in, but it's currently not platted so it's the last piece to take it up to Pioneer Trail. So two projects in 2009. And again, these move around. They fluctuate. You know they're big projects. Might not happen in 2009. They might be out to 2010. Just so the captions there can be moved from one year to the next. Kelly: How many miles is that from bridge to. Hoffman: To here? Kelly: Yeah. Hoffman: I don't know the exact mileage. I'm going to guess probably about a mile and a half. Kelly: Wow. Okay. Stolar: If they're going to do, I have a feeling they can't keep the trees around there kind of like what Minnetonka has in their development. I don't know if you heard that. Hoffman: Oh…the trail and cut the trees down. Stolar: Well no, they actually were supposed to, the whole thing was agreed to that they can develop as long as they keep the trees. First thing they did was took down all the trees. Hoffman: It's a problem. Stolar: Yeah. Daniel: Glen Lake wasn't it? Stolar: Glen Lake, yeah. The Glen Lake development. And you know Minnetonka recognized that the biggest issue was they actually didn't have any inspectors brought in to work with the developer, and so it was a mistake and the developer admitted it but it's too late. Hoffman: Too late now. Renegotiate that… Any questions on these two trail sections? And again, the developers are Rottlund and then Town & Country down here. Again in the past we've done this a variety of ways. We would go ahead and collect their money and then build the trails with our contractor, but that really gets to be a touchy situation when they have a big contract going and we have a big contract going and who's first and who's getting in who's way, and so we've incorporated into the development, when they're doing road, they're asphalt, their dirt contractor is on us to do this so they're calling…and it just works a whole lot better. 11 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: This is, I mean this is to me very exciting to have this. When this all gets down, I mean that will be a great opening, ribbon cutting type thing. Hoffman: The bevo structure right here is in place. The wing walls are being built and that's what, when we get a chance to go out and visit, we'll take a look at. The whole Bluff Creek trail is nice and attractive but this section is by far the nicest. In 2010 again putting some dollars out there for Rice Marsh Lake trail. $350,000 and that actually might be a little short by the time we get done with doing some hard costs. This is the trail that goes around the south side of Rice Marsh. Currently it stops just right down in this development… The last piece to be built was that connection piece with a bridge. And then we have to take it to the back of these lots, which have been platted since the 60's but there's an easement there, and then continue it on into Eden Prairie. And then the underpass, that's the second that's going to be built. The underpass is just in Eden Prairie right at that location to get you under Highway 212. And then Eden Prairie will turn it back the other way and meet up. When that's done you'll have a continuous loop around Rice Marsh Lake and by that time there'll be a continuous loop around Lake Susan and through the neighborhood at this location. Back along the road. And then obviously we're planning on one around Lake Ann at some point in the future. And then halfway around Lucy. So we're starting to get that city of lakes type of feel with these trails going around the lake. Scharfenberg: Todd when will, now they're going to build an underpass at 101. When will that be built? Hoffman: It's being built as a part of the, what they call the Gap project. There's the 101 Gap project and that will probably be built in the next construction season. So that's right at the… Daniel: Follow along the creek that connects Susan and Rice Marsh? Hoffman: It's going to be upstream of the creek. Excuse me, north of the creek. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: Angle there looking underpass. That's going in, it's a great project. The Gap project. When they realized that 212 was going to go in, you had this little 101 windy road between 212 and Highway 5 and downtown Chanhassen. There's some local people that worked very hard to make that happen so it was, and of course we thought it would be…people benefit, the trail users… The other one is the Highway 41 trail underpass grant match at $125,000. That underpass would be located on Highway 41. Next to the new Highover. There's an outlot right here. There'll be an underpass. It includes a trail from the middle school down to the Longacres development. So you have the trail on the east side of Highway 41. The underpass and then the trail from the underpass down to the beach as a part of that. I think it was a million one grant application. That was last year's funding cycle with the county being the primary agent on the grant application. 12 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 The City Council signed on with a letter of support and I think it was, from what I understand, two places out of the money for the application so we need to wait for next funding cycle thinking the county will reapply. Amend the application to try to make it… In talking with folks out in the Highover area, they're very anxious to see that go through. There were some promises made, or from the developers that this is eminent. It was but the City didn't make those promises so but…but they're still anxious to see that go through. Questions on those two projects? This plan will not be without pain. These residents have been waiting out here for some 40 years without a trail in their back yard. They have very large lots but there is, both the sewer interceptor back there and on top of that sewer interceptor is the trail easement and so I give credit to somebody in the 1960's at the city for taking an easement and understanding the future of that alignment, but these people aren't going to, some of them may not be very willing to accept the fact that this trail is coming their way. 2011 includes $190,000 project down at the Arboretum Business Park. That's right near Lifetime Fitness and the expanding business park. Lot 12 is this lot right here. One of the last remaining lots. This is called the Chanhassen Nature Preserve and it has a mile of trails planned around it. Three-quarters of it is done. This section of trail is all in place and the piece we're missing is that last quarter. And again this is a development contract based. Development contract for this lot states that when that lot is sold and developed, the person who builds on that lot needs to build this last section of trail and make that connection. They build it, then we come in and make the payment back of $190,000 and you'll have a mile of continuous trail loop around a 100 acre nature preserve in the western part of the city. Fairly impressive project from start to finish. Been some tough sections of trail. The last one along the Holiday Inn Express was not an easy section of trail to build. $30,000 three times for the Phase II playgrounds which originally were down around 2007 but again the commission…lights and so we have $90,000 for those and that brings that total up to 291. Average I think is still $400,000. The total for those 5 years $2,305,000. Things that got bumped out include some improvements out at Roundhouse Park. Ice rink. Hockey boards. Tennis courts out at Roundhouse. Some of those types of improvements. Stolar: Is there City Center? Hoffman: City Center I guess… And between now and then, I guarantee you there will be things that as certain neighborhoods start to fall in love with in their neighborhoods and they will be in to talk to you about what's going on with your park dedication fund. You're doing a lot of trails in southern Chanhassen when you haven't been doing a lot of park development. The 1996 referendum did remodel quite a few parks and then last year's playground project remodeled quite a few parks, but that's how you keep your residents happy. I mean their neighborhood parks, in all our surveys time after time says that's their primary focal point for their park use. They might be at the Lake Ann for some sporting events but on a week in and week out basis, they get to their neighborhood park in some shape, fashion or form so you can't ignore those… Glad to any questions after discussion from the commission. Stolar: Questions? 13 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Daniel: I think it looks fantastic. Stolar: This was a great presentation Todd. Thank you. It really helped. Seeing none, there's no action item on this. Hoffman: Need a recommendation for council. Stolar: Oh we do? For this approach? Hoffman: Yep. Stolar: Oh. Excuse me, I didn't see that. Alright, do I have a motion to approve the updated 5 year CIP plan as presented. Daniel: Motion to approve updated CIP plan. Scharfenberg: Second. Stolar: Moved and seconded. Any discussion? Daniel moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend approval of the Park and Trail Capital Improvement plan for the years 2007 through 2011 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. RECOMMENDATION CONCERNING 2006-2007 ICE SKATING RINK LOCATIONS. Ruegemer: Thanks again. The November winds are approaching here. We look to change seasons here. Topic of ice rinks, outdoor rinks has been widely discussed the past couple years at length at the commission level. We gathered citizen input last year from a neighborhood parks. Through the installation of the new playgrounds we heard from a lot of people. Regenerated interest in having an outdoor rink at certain locations in the city. Those areas we had discussed and supported doing 3 test rinks at Chan Hills, Rice Marsh Lake Park and Pheasant Hills. Part of that recommendation and approval last year, staff did develop an attendance sheet that the commission did volunteer for and go out on a number of different days, nights and weekends to collect the data and participation numbers. That is also attached with the report and I think we found out that even with some warmer weather and also some, and when the rinks were operational, that we did not get a lot of use on those 3 test rinks. Park maintenance staff has spent a lot of time maintaining the rinks on a daily basis. It's really staff's belief that with the lack of use on those test rinks that we move a different direction and eliminate those rinks for this upcoming season. It is staff's recommendation that the Park and Rec Commission recommend to the City Council to approve the following ice rink locations for 2006-07. That includes the Chanhassen Recreation Center, City Center Park, North Lotus Lake Park and Roundhouse Park, and those four locations are where we have warming houses. 14 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 That would make most sense. Where we have attendants and that sort of thing, that we focus our energies and, at those locations. So it's also staff recommendation to eliminate 3 test rinks from last year's schedule. Stolar: Any questions? Murphy: I'm trying to remember the neighborhood that came to talk to us. Wasn't that Chanhassen Hills? Stolar: Rice Marsh was one of the more prevalent neighborhoods. Hoffman: And I think Chan Hills was too. Stolar: Chan Hills was here too, yeah. Murphy: Okay. And they just didn't wind up having the use on our testing. Okay. Hoffman: Chan Hills had a couple of days that noted heavy use on our maintenance thrd schedule. January 10 and January 23. Stolar: And if you do look at the numbers they had in total 37 people in our counting that we did too. So out of the 3, that one probably had more heavy use. It also had the lights I believe. Ruegemer: One light. Stolar: One light. Jeff, any questions? Daniel: No. Stolar: Jack? Scharfenberg: I'm just anticipating that next winter when this doesn't happen that they're going to be back again you know asking for it and so, you know I understand the reasons behind it. Why not to do it. We've got 4 facilities already within the city that provide skating facilities. You know it'd be nice to have it in your back yard and at least the Chanhassen Hills one demonstrated heavy use. You know if we were going to do anything, I'd say keep that one but I don't know if that makes any sense just to keep one park, so. I don't know what everybody else thinks. Stolar: Tom? Kelly: I'm really happy that we did the test. I'll probably be getting, the times where it was randomly selected, I just don't think the numbers pan out to keep any of them open. I think for Chanhassen Hills it was 37 but 14 of that came on one day. I swear there was 14 people there but as someone pointed out, it could have been a birthday party. Yeah, so 15 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 I'm in favor of staff's recommendation, even though we'll probably get neighbors coming in. At least we have some evidence that we can confidently say yes, we tried this out and we just don't think it, the numbers panned out. I felt we gave it a fair shake. Hoffman: This is not the first time this has happened either. We've done this before. Taken it away. Brought it back. Taken away. Brought it back. Scharfenberg: Well yeah at some point I would like to see, given the development in what's going to happen in the southern half of Chanhassen, that we're going to have to do something as a commission and we should do something in terms of a rink, a skating facility or rinks in that southern part of the city, especially when the 2010 extends even further. We're going to have to put something you know right now between Lyman and Pioneer Trail potentially in a park, Bandimere or something where we have a central park location but I would think that we would want to put something in that particular, in southern Chanhassen for those people that are going to be living down there because the next closest facility will be Bluff Creek, and that will be, I mean that's still kind of a haul. So I think we have to really take that into consideration in the next 3 to 4 years. Even 2 to 3 years that we should do something as a commission to develop a plan for that area. Put that to staff to come up with some sort of recommendation to come back to us with you know where would be the best location and what do we do? Stolar: Todd, if you could take a moment and just go to the board here because I think, we've talked about this before and I agree with you Steve that there's, yep. As the growth goes south we're going to have to figure out one of these parks that goes along. We might have to look at them more broad base approach to having a skating rink there. You know boards and things like that. If you flipped up that map and did the other. So, as we look at. Hoffman: We have Bluff Creek. Stolar: Yeah, so Bluff Creek's there and Chan Hills is? Hoffman: Chan Hills is here. Stolar: Right. And Bandimere? Hoffman: Bandimere's here. So you have rinks here and at City Center. North Lotus and Roundhouse. That's the geographical spread. Stolar: Bandimere we have, we've talked about boards and things right, along time so that's one of the things we need to look at. And even though we just approved the CIP, I think at some point we're going to have to consider bringing that back involved there. Is there something to do at Bandimere to put a more structured skating rink because then that does hit some of the southern part but then we've got to go even further south as we go along. But Chan Hills itself doesn't, so right now Bandimere and Chan Hills, neither one of those would have it so again going in the south. 16 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Hoffman: Bandimere would be the best opportunity I think. It would take a community type park setting and I don't see another major community type park setting between the 2005 or 10 MUSA area. Bandimere, you would have to go through some remodeling. There are, there's a location for a future building next to the playground area, but you would have to start to identify where you're going to put these hockey rinks or skating facilities. Are you going to take out a soccer field? Are you going to take out a ballfield? Are you going to take off parking? Kelly: It's not possible to put boards on soccer field 1? Hoffman: It would be. You're going to diminish the level of the field. You're going to kill the grass each season. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunities. You can put temporary boards up, not a problem and we could look at doing in the parking lot so there's some opportunities there. Stolar: Is there anything to do this year to start a rink there, or is it too late in the game? Even just an open rink. Scharfenberg: We could flood the softball fields. One of the softball fields, or ballfields if you wanted to do, like they do at Bluff Creek. You could do that potentially but there's no shelter there. You'd have to get a movable, portable shelter. Put something out there. Hoffman: You can certainly talk about it. The densities I don't think, the neighborhood densities don't increase any over Chanhassen Hills for example. Chanhassen Hills, you have a pretty compact neighborhood with many people within walking distance and you have a light on the facility so if you can't generate sufficient use at Chan Hills, I don't see a reason that you would be able to at Bandimere if it's just a sheet of ice on a ballfield. Now if it's a place where you drive to and you have hockey lights and those type of things, and a warming house, then that's a different story because Bandimere is more of a driving type of facility. There's a neighborhood there but they're a little bit more dispersed. Neighborhood to the north has a longer walking distance. Stolar: And I don't know, Tom and I were talking about this beforehand. To me the idea of having a rink present in the southern part is kind of important. Hoffman: Been talked about for many years. Stolar: And the question being, if we did just Chanhassen Hills for that particular reason. Has a light. It's some representation in the southern part would be, you can drive to go to it for open skating. I know it didn't pan out to be successful, but it kind of gets to the, let's say Phase I of a concept that we're going to have a more permanent rink presence in the southern part over time than I think, I don't know if that's just, you can tell me the cost of 1 versus 3 is not that big of a difference. Or if it is, just one-third of the 3 and I would be in favor of doing Chanhassen Hills also only, for those two reasons. It has a light, which could increase it's usage. And it's at least something in the southern part. 17 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Hoffman: Yep, if the commission wants to do Chan Hills. Murphy: Instead of Roundhouse, is that what you're saying? Stolar: No, no, no. I'm saying, in fact the only reason I mention Bandimere is it's kind of taking out this neighborhood park concept. We'll note that some of them are exceptions but the idea of being, it's more of a community park type rink because it already has the infrastructure and eventually to move to, that representation to move to a more permanent one as we fund it in the future. Murphy: So add a fifth rink here at Chan Hills, is that? Stolar: Yeah. Hoffman: Or keep it this year, not. The only park we did receive antidotal evidence to the positive was Chan Hills. We received some antidotal evidence on the others that said there was nobody using that, but we did receive some testimony from residents. People that live in the area. You know we saw people there. Stolar: So I mean to me, if it's more of a idea that we're going to start keeping a rink in the southern part. Daniel: But what do you recommend Todd for a park size for even just an open skating? As far as amount of land or whatever it may be. Hoffman: Oh, you can fit it in just about anywhere. We used to have one in Minnewashta Heights. It's 5 residential lots is the size of the park and we had an open skate area there. A couple acres is all you need. Carver Beach used to have one. Little Carver Beach. Stolar: So any thoughts? Kelly: How about costs though? I mean is it, is maintaining one rink one-third of the cost to maintain 3 rinks or not? Hoffman: It's hard to estimate but we have the staff available. What we want to make is a prudent decision on the use of your resources because if they're flooding these 3 rinks they're not doing other things that could be of more use. If you want to keep the Chanhassen Hills rink going, yeah you're probably, you free up two-thirds of your time and they can be doing other things that are more useful for the community. Stolar: But too it is a proportional savings. It's not like the idea of adding any neighborhood rinks automatically takes 50% of the time we would have spent anyway. Hoffman: No. It's simply, it's… 18 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: Alright. Why don't we, we have a recommendation in front of us. Do I have a motion to approve and then if we want to amend it we can. Any motion to approve staff recommendation? Murphy: Motion to approve staff recommendation on ice skating rinks. Stolar: Moved by Commissioner Murphy. Do I hear a second? Daniel: Second. Stolar: Seconded Commissioner Daniel. And then I guess I'll leave it in, Steve you were the one who initially brought it up. Do you want to propose an amendment? Scharfenberg: I would propose the amendment to include Chanhassen Hills as a rink for 2006-2007 ice skating season. Stolar: Okay. Anne, do you accept the proposed amendment? Do you want to talk about it? Murphy: Well the monitor it for 2006 and 7 and see how it does? Is that what you're saying? Scharfenberg: I don't think we even need to monitor it. I think we just put it there. Then we can ask, if we want, I mean we can… Hoffman: Yeah, we'll maintain our monitoring. Murphy: Oh okay. Stolar: Right, the monitoring goes on no matter what. Murphy: Oh, I'm sorry. Hoffman: Just by our truck drivers. Scharfenberg: And Tom and I will drive by a few evenings…check it out. Murphy: Yep, accept. Stolar: Jeff? Daniel: Accept. 19 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: Alright, Shall we vote on this then? It's been amended to include Chanhassen Hills as an additional skating rink, and I'm going to refrain from using the word neighborhood park skating rink. This is an additional skating rink location. Murphy moved, Daniel seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council to approve the following ice skating rink locations for the 2006/07 season: Chanhassen Rec Center-Warming House North Lotus Park-Warming House 1 - Family Rink 1 - Family Rink 1 - Family Rink 1 - Hockey Rink 1 - Hockey Rink City Center Park - Warming House Roundhouse Park-Warming House 1 - Family Rink 1 - Family Rink 1 - Hockey Rink Chanhassen Hills Park 1 - Family Rink All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Stolar: Thank you Jerry. Ruegemer: No problem. Thank you. Stolar: And Dale, thank you and your team for maintaining those rinks this past year. Appreciate it. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2006 DAVE HUFFMAN 5K RACE. th Ruegemer: The seventh annual Dave Huffman race was held Saturday the 9. Another great event again. I think had it not been for the kind of start of rain that morning, we probably would have had some more but we had just about 300 on the nose with that so. Had a lot of good comments about that. I think many people enjoyed the course. Get people through town quick. ...safe. Had somebody from Colorado this year said it was, came up afterwards, said it's probably one of the most organized events that she's been at so that makes us feel good. We do a lot of planning ahead of time, not only as a committee but with our street superintendent Mike Wegler, Ross Gullickson of Carver County to really kind of go through that and make sure that it is a safe course. That we're anticipating traffic patterns and possible areas and thanks to Dale. Dale's crew again, they always do a great job on preparing for the event. They always make us look good too so we appreciate that. So we did have that again going through Frontier Trail was really nice. We haven't had any neighborhood opposition with that. We notified people 20 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 that the runners are going to be coming through their areas. We had closed down the roads in those neighborhood areas. That really makes it nice for people to kind of cheer on people as they go by. The kids race again, we did move that start time up to 9:45 this year versus about 10:15-10:20 last year in the hopes of kind of getting through that event, and then also getting people on their way getting through the awards ceremony and kind of continue on through the day so I think that worked out nicely with that change. Had roughly 75 which was down about 25 to 30 kids from last year so, but the kids still had a good time. We didn't really have any problems with any type of traffic infiltrating the race course area and that sort of thing so overall it went very good. Many positive comments. I think people liked the yellow shirts this year which was a change so, always look ahead to add additional sponsors. To kind of buy down their expenses so to speak and we increased our donation to the scholarship, student scholarship fund with the Chamber from $500 to $1,000 this year so they were extremely happy about that this year. And also made contributions then to the Arboretum and the Chanhassen Boy Scout Troop 330 so great events. Just attached is the race results. Kind of overall by age category in and out so the race results from… Stolar: Great, any questions? Alright. 2006 HALLOWEEN PARTY PREVIEW. Rosa: Thank you Chair Stolar, commissioners. It's actually the 2006 Halloween Party, so sorry for the typo on there. Most of the stuff will be present from last year with a couple changes. We have secured different entertainment this year. Also a magician, like last year but we're going with somebody else. Just to keep costs down and everything, and be a part of that low cost program to our residents is why we're keeping it th down there. But this will be Saturday, October 28 from 5:30 to 7:30 at the Chan Rec Center. Again we'll have hay rides out there. We'll have the scary and friendly areas, depending on what areas the child likes to go to. We'll also have entertainment, refreshments and games. Dale's staff is going to be helping with getting the games together for that so I appreciate him for that. And then at this time I'd also like to, we do thth have a meeting before the actual 28 date, on the 24 but to give you guys a little more time to think about it, I'd like to request some volunteers. Here's a nice sheet for that. I can send. Stolar: He told me he'll dress up as a cow this year. Spizale: I don't think the costumer fits me. I want the Sylvester the Cat that you had. Stolar: Oh, that was hot though. It was hot. Rosa: The flyers have been made and will be distributed next week for the actual schools. The individual flyers such as this, and I gave you each a copy too in case you want to…your children, nephews. So we did send out a copy of that in the earlier, it went out last week to the elementaries inside of our big packet that goes out. Includes all of our fall programs so we're hitting them up twice trying to see, didn't take up any more 21 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 room on that so we threw it in there so we always do this extra one too just to give the individual sign up sheet for that so we're hoping that it will draw numbers to that. Hope to bring numbers back up to where they were a couple years ago. This is the second year that we are charging a fee for the program so slowly trying to get people to come back into it. It's a $4.00 minimal fee. They get tons of candy. They get entertainment for that. They get their picture taken. We're going to set up a couple different scenarios for that this year, and then they also get the hayrides so it's well worth the cost of the program. That is all that I have. Stolar: Great. Any questions for Nate? Murphy: They don't have to pre-register though, right? You can show up. Rosa: They don't have to pre-register. You can do it that day. We just set it up to make it look like we have you pre-register. It makes it easier on everybody so that we don't have this huge line at the door, because we do, as you see, end up with 500-600 people there so it can be some kind of a congestion but yes, we do have on that volunteer sheet one of them is the registration table. Stolar: Great. Thank you very much. RECREATION CENTER REPORT. Knowles: Thank you Commissioners. Stolar: How you doing Tom? Knowles: Well I'm doing fine, thank you. Basically my message this month is that it's good to be back in business after our annual 2 1/2 week closure for floor resurfacing and extensive cleaning. The building looks nice. Almost new again so it looks very nice out there. We've got our staff pretty much put back together again and we're up and running. We've been back in business for 3 weeks now and like I say, it's just good to be back in business. Our fall programs are well underway. The two largest programs are preschool sports which is soccer this fall and our dance program showing good numbers again this year. About roughly 200 in the dance program and about 180 or so in the soccer program. This past week, Friday we had our Barnyard Boogie. We had about 206 participants in that and to speak to the issue of pre-registrations. We did the same sort of thing there. We took pre-registrations and also walk-in's. We had 70 walk-in's roughly that night and it can get to be a problem so we certainly try to encourage as many pre- registrations as we can. But the Barnyard Boogie went off without a hitch. It went very well. I thought very clearly the people that came had $4.00 worth of entertainment that night so we were very glad so. In the building itself, we've already hosted the primary elections two weeks ago. Getting geared up to host the general election in November. We anticipate a large crowd that night so beware I suppose if you want to come work out. You're going to have to compete with a lot of people walking in and out of the building. We've sent out letters this fall for the youth association directors. We offer gymnasium 22 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 time to the various athletic associations for their groups to use it for practice and game times. The responses are still coming back in but we try to give at least 10 to 12 hours every week to the various youth groups free of charge for their use in the gym. Finally I guess my note is we got our basketball league up and running last night. 6 teams in our fall league this year which is fairly typical for fall. We usually have a bigger bubble in the winter time but the 6 teams last night went off without a hitch so we're very happy to see them back so. Like I say, good to be back and in business again. Stolar: Great. Welcome back. Knowles: Thank you. Stolar: Any questions for Tom? Okay, thank you very much Tom. PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT. Gregory: Well I think you can all agree with me in that once again summer's come and gone a little bit too fast. For all the projects we had this summer and that. We've been really busy and that. Again with summer going the way it is and that, although our park staff is gone, other than 4 people, or 4 main lawn mowing people that are seniors are still with us helping us out. Other than that it leaves our staff doing a lot of the day to day basis of taking care of some of the ballfields yet and soccer fields and that type of thing. We're striping and maintaining 20 soccer fields this fall and 2 football fields. Working with Jerry and that, we were lucky in that to take out 2 soccer fields down at Bandimere. 2 and 3 to reseed and give them a rest this fall which really helped and we also took out North Lotus Lake Park so that's going to help those fields a lot. Then along with that, some of the things we've been working on and that, we did get the new trail through Lake Ann before the Miracles for Mitch and that so it was used for that. Going along with that, we had to tear out some of our irrigation where the trail went and everything so the guys have re-installed the irrigation and we've got the bigger area sodded and some of the smaller areas, we've got it seeded so it's looking pretty nice out there. Again that trail adds a lot to that park I think. A few of the things that we're working on this year, and I want to give you just a quick little update here and that on what we've kind of done in the last 3 months here and that is, we've resurfaced several of our tennis courts at Lake Susan, South Lotus Lake and Meadow Green. The double courts have been resurfaced and refurbished. Also the basketball court at Lake Susan was the same this year. We're also working on Lake Susan expansion on the parking lot, and where we're at with that one right now and that is we've already moved the volleyball court and the parking lot has been laid out and graded and today the guys were out there. We're putting in the electrical wiring and everything else. Moved the light poles for the parking lot. And we were scheduled for the curbing to go in the end of this week, the beginning of next week. We talked with them today. They are a little bit behind because of the rain and everything we've had here lately and that so it might be, we might be a few days late on our curbing schedule and that so but they are scheduled to come in as soon as they're, we can get ready for them and that so. And then pretty much it's blacktopping and we've already contracted that out with Plehal so as soon as we're ready, they'll be in to blacktop 23 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 it and we're basically doubling the size of that parking lot down there then. And from there, Jim will just move in. We want to try to get the trails and that stuff finished around that park. We haven't got the sodding or anything done around the little playground and we really haven't had that opened very long because of all the equipment and everything that's down there. We're keeping that closed for right now. But our plans are to move right into that laying out the trails and that and trying to get that black topped too yet this year. The Curry Farms trail down there, where we're at with that is we've got our part of it all done. We built up the trail. Took out the sharp corner at the bottom. Took out some trees and everything there and that. We've got our part of it built up and ready to go. That contract is also out with Plehal. They're going to come in and put in the new trail going up the hill. Overlay the rest of it going out into the Teton area, and then also they're going to be grubbing out trees and stuff and that and taking a section of trail that will go into Knob Hill. And that's really what's held us up on that. We had our part of it done for quite a while and getting the permission and everything else to go in and go into the Knob Hill area and that is what really held things up and that. I did talk to the contractor late this afternoon and they are supposed to be in Knob Hill either, they were supposed to be there today or else tomorrow. They're going to be in there to start taking the trees and that down so, that one is starting to move ahead too. Playgrounds, where we're at on that. All of our playgrounds have been refurbished and worked on. We've got the blacktop done on all of them but 2 of them, and all the sodding is done so basically the only 2 that are left yet is the Curry Farms and the Lake Susan. Other than that the rest of them are all completed with blacktop up to the playgrounds and everything is completely sodded. Lake Ann road, that's moving along. They've ground up all the blacktop up there and that and re-laid that. The curbing is in. They've also taken out for the additional parking that will be up on top of the hill by the ballfields by the play structure and that. They're getting that laid out, and was out there today and they've actually got that, the new intersection is going to be put out there. They've got that laid out and they've got that dug in and it's looking pretty good up there with that. So they're moving along pretty good on that one too. Bluff Creek hockey rinks. Worked on those. We did some work on the boards. Got everything ready there. We're also working with Plehal Blacktopping got the contract. They've ground those down and they're all, I was out there today. They're all level, packed and they raised the drains so right now it's, as soon as they can get their crew in here, they're ready to be blacktopped and it will be new for this year too, the blacktopping. Stolar: And we had all that buckling and all that from the years past. That should not be a problem then. Gregory: Right. A lot of that came from the paint and the problems we had with the paint. I don't think Todd's going to paint them. Hoffman: You're right. Gregory: So really and that, we shouldn't have any problem. All that was ground up. It was all re-used. Everything so we've got more base on what the base that they did have out there. And we did have a little problem in the number 1 hockey rink in the northwest 24 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 corner. We've got a little water problem there. I had my guys go in there. We did extra tiling and everything there, which we hope will take care of some of that problem and hopefully take care of some of the problem with pushing of the poles and everything. Like I say, that one is moving along and that so we should hopefully have that done here before too long. And the only other one I've got left is we are still working on the basketball court down at Bandimere Heights. That little park. We've got to haul the rock out of there and get, I mean the pea rock out of there and that and then get the base put in there. And we've already got prices from Plehal for that too so, we've got, once we get things kind of laid out and they get in here and that, Plehal's got a lot of blacktopping to do and that so it should move along pretty good once they get in here and that. Hopefully this will all be done this year yet. That's all I've got. That's where our summer's been. Stolar: Thank you. Lot of good work. Questions for Dale. Spizale: No questions but would it be easier to have these reports at the beginning of the meeting so they wouldn't have to sit through the whole meeting? I mean they can if they want but it will be easier to maybe do it at another part instead of the very end. Hoffman: Any of the comments I've received from staff is actually enjoyed. Part of the reason they come, some come 4 times a year. Some come twice. Is to experience a meeting as well so they enjoy being here and listening to the commission. Spizale: That just occurred to me as I was sitting here. Stolar: Well thank you for your patience in sitting here. Knowles: But I agree with Todd's comments. It's good to be here just to observe, at least periodically how these meetings function. It's a valuable experience so I certainly enjoy coming and watching you 4 times a year. I think it's a good use of my time. Stolar: Okay, thanks. Spizale: I didn't know we were that popular. Maybe more staff… Hoffman: We're out of park staff. The planners aren't going to show up. Daniel: Dale, what's the seeding on Curry Farms? On the field. Gregory: The seeding? Daniel: Yeah. Gregory: As soon as we get the trail blacktopped, it's going to get leveled off and that, it will get a dormant seeding this fall. And then we're going to get sod down around the play, all along the play structure and trail and that going in. And it's like I say, as soon as we can get the blacktopper out of there, we'll go in and get it, to get the sod in and we'll 25 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 have the seed in dormant. We'll be waiting, that'll probably be going in more into October when we know it won't grow. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: The hold up was the easement acquisition on the trail connection at the top or we would have been done and out. Stolar: Anything else? Scharfenberg: So at Bluff Creek on the hockey rinks, they ground down the whole rinks, both rinks and then they're going to resurface the whole thing? Gregory: Correct. Scharfenberg: Okay. Gregory: Yeah, it's not an overlay or anything. It's completely ground up. We did that basically because trying to overlay that with so many cracks and everything, if your blacktop, if you leave any of that, you're going to get cracks again in the same places. So the only way was really to grind it all up. Re-pack it. Re-start all over with it. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: Bare asphalt holds the ice a lot better. It's hard to imagine that simply because of little cracks and grooves in plain asphalt grab onto that ice and seal it. It can't move but whereas the paint, all bets were off. And then the paint also had some sort of effect holding the moisture and causing the failure of the asphalt, the premature failure of the asphalt. And so we were the envy of many communities when we first built these rinks but that was a real short honeymoon because 4 or 5 years later people were saying oh, we don't want to do that. At least Chanhassen tried it. California or Florida, yes. Not Minnesota. Stolar: Thank you Dale. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT: 2006 PARK AND TRAIL CIP. Hoffman: Thank you Chair Stolar, members of the commission. It's one of our responsibilities, I just feel an obligation to report back to the commission on our progress from 2006. I won't go through all the specific items. If individual commissioners have questions on any of them, I'll be happy to answer your questions. Stolar: Any questions? Okay, seeing none. We'll move on. The only thing I wanted to th add under reports was the joint commission City Council meeting from September 18. And then the City Council meeting from last night. I was not at the joint meeting. Steve, you sent me an email on that but you want to just say a couple words on it? 26 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Scharfenberg: Some of the things, I know not every, Jack you weren't there were you? Some of the things that we discussed with, talking points that we had were just the park dedication fees and the council indicated that they were, you know recognized that we're on the higher end of that and we look at fees every year, every January and whether or not they would increase or not and that's something they will take up in January but I didn't necessarily get the impression that they were going to be increasing those fees. We talked about opportunities with District 112. Trying to do anything we can with those in terms of ballfields and increasing ballfield size. We updated that, that we were going to be lighting some of the fields and that was going to help with capacity. And they indicated again that there's interest within the community of building a pool, if at all possible within Chanhassen and that several commissioners expressed interest with respect to town baseball and if at all possible trying to do something with that, so those were basically the talking points that we discussed. Stolar: Okay. Any other comments? The one thing related to the, apologize again for not being able to attend the meeting. With regards to the park dedication fees and I think we had talked about there were several different aspects of it but one of it was land acquisition so I just, and I know Todd you included in the correspondence package, I think it's in here, some of the information that Plymouth was going to. Hoffman: Referendum. Stolar: Referendum. And I guess I would just like to have, after this referendum's done, so maybe our November meeting, maybe just kind of an informational discussion on that. It seems to me when we start talking, I think we're okay based on what you presented through the 2005 MUSA but as you start getting to 2010, we're probably not going to be fine. So just something to think about. We'll see how that goes because if Eden Prairie, they had two starts on it. One didn't go so well and the second one did when they talked about specifically land acquisition for specific purposes. Hoffman: And regarding fees, we are starting to see a push back on land prices. We believe at least for the short term they have peaked and they have actually come down, primarily due because of the economy. So the 2005 MUSA saw a rapid build up of land prices topping out at about $235,000 per acre and then the one we talked about tonight at $182, and so there has been some push back on those prices. Whereas our park dedication fees are based off of land values of approximately $100,000 or $120,000 an acre and so when you're out paying 186 or 182 and you're only collecting 120, but there's also a limit on how high we can go. I believe last year we were the highest in the state in park dedication fees. So you have to allow some other folks to lead once in a while because if you get too far out in the lead, someone's going to find your name and put you on a list and the developers are going to team up and come to Chanhassen City Hall and say that we are out of line. Stolar: So that's where you know some of the things that we'll have to think about in the future may include some other approaches to land acquisition. The City Council 27 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 meeting, there's just one thing I wanted to, one key point to bring up is that there was an Eagle Scout project going to be going on at, by Carver Beach and it's going to be putting mulch down along the trail between the north and south beach areas. And doing some th erosion protection and it's scheduled for November 4. Saturday. He will be looking for volunteers so maybe at our October meeting we'll bring it up again but if you can write that down as a possible date to help out and that's a Saturday. It sounded like a good project. Todd and I had gone there in August? Hoffman: July maybe. Stolar: July? Hoffman: Yep. Stolar: Can't remember when it was. In July. Talked to the residents. Walked the trail and it's actually a very nice trail. You just walk along the lake there and I'm sure in the fall it would be beautiful. Right now probably starting to turn color. I think putting that mulch in will make it a nice trail for the neighborhood. Daniel: Have they done it before Todd? Hoffman: They did. Do you remember that? Daniel: I do. Hoffman: Many years ago. Daniel: I was trying to remember if was virtually nothing. Hoffman: Nothing left but that was 15 to 18 years ago. Daniel: Okay. Stolar: Then we'll do something trying to help keep it from flowing right down… Hoffman: Yeah. As planned this is going to be a much more significant installation of wood chips than the first time around. Stolar: And I can't remember, I don't think there was anything else that was of major importance. Oh, the LRT route. They didn't discuss it. They didn't pull it but there was, and we didn't get anything on that in our packets here today right in the correspondence section. Hoffman: Yeah, apologize for that. I'll include it next time around. It was a time line crunch from Three Rivers on the resolution so I'll include it in your next packet. 28 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: Basically, historically we've allowed snowmobiling and asked for an exemption to allow snowmobiling along the trail there and I think it was last year you had told us that this may be the last year because of the development going on and all the activity and that Todd was right. It is the last year so instead we asked for a 10 year? Hoffman: 5 year. Stolar: 5 year usage for cross country skiing, walking, all non-motorized activities all on the trail during the winter. And that passed on the agenda. Or consent agenda. Hoffman: It's the south LRT. Three Rivers Park District, unless you apply for a permit for a specific use will sign the trail, this trail closed in your city by order of your City Council. One way of getting people to act on these permit applications because that's not a very popular sign. Stolar: So, and they'll accept our 5 year usage there so we don't have to revisit it? Hoffman: We hope so. They have started to accept multi year agreements. Kelly: Will it be plowed or no? Hoffman: No. Kelly: So the plowing still ends pretty much at Pioneer? Hoffman: At Eden Prairie. Scharfenberg: Do they groom it? Hoffman: They won't groom it. We won't groom it. It'll just be left as a walking or snowshoeing. Whatever the conditions. If it melts… It's a fairly isolated section of trail. I'm just hesitant to put the dollars of plowing it into a resource that probably won't see the payback on the usage down in that area. It's fairly isolated and so you're not going to see a tremendous amount of increased use for your investment and gas and time. Stolar: I'm sure we might hear from the Snowmobile Association because this is the first, how many years has it been allowed? Hoffman: Yeah, through all, since the 60's. Well since the tracks went off in that section but snowmobiling has been allowed in this city since the 60's. On the trail plan there is no trail, no snowmobile trail plan and so any, if you see a snowmobile out cruising around the city, that's a rogue snowmobiler. There's no place to go. Kelly: Can you really stop the snowmobilers because that's now plowed… Hoffman: Sure they will, yeah. You'll see a few on there. 29 Park and Rec Commission - September 26, 2006 Stolar: Any other items? Questions about the correspondence section? No? Seeing none, do we have a motion to adjourn? Scharfenberg moved, Murphy seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 30