CC Minutes 1-8-07
City Council Meeting - January 8, 2007
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Peterson: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Getting better.
Roger Knutson: I have nothing left to say though.
Councilman Litsey: I hope to be there some day.
Mayor Furlong: The motion has been made. Is there a second?
Councilman Litsey: I'll make a second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Does everybody
understand the motion? Adopting items 3(a) and 3(b) with the changes and adoption of the
findings of fact.
Resolution #2007-05: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the
City Council approves the land use amendment from Public/Semi-Public to commercial for
Outlot B and the easterly 66 feet of Lot 1, Block 1, Old Village Hall subject to Metropolitan
Council review, and approves the rezoning from Office and Institutional District, 01, to
Central Business District, CBD, for Outlot B and the easterly 66 feet of Lot 1, Block 1, Old
Village Hall and adopt the findings of fact as presented. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to O.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council approve
the attached lease agreement with Distinctive Ventures LLC for the Old Village Hall
property subject to the inclusion of a security deposit of one month's rent in the lease. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to O.
AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE. CHAPTERS 1.7.13.18.19 & 20 AS A RESULT
OF THE ADOPTION OF THE SECOND GENERATRION SURFACE WATER
MANAGEMENT PLAN.
Lori Haak: Good evening Mayor Furlong and council members. Over the past 2 years the City
ofChanhassen has been working to update it's 1994 Surface Water Management Plan. The
second generation plan was adopted, was recommended for approval by the Planning
Commission on August 15,2006 and was adopted by the City Council on August 28,2006. The
Surface Water Management Plan as revised recommends a number of changes to the standards
that are currently employed by the City and the areas of erosion and sediment control, storm
water management and wetland protection. The recommended revisions to the city code will
really help staff to implement the plan and achieve the goals that are set forth in that plan. The
Planning Commission held a public hearing on December 5, 2006 to review the code revisions
and ordinances and to receive public comment. The minutes of that public hearing are included
in item l(a) of your packet. No one was present to make comments during that public hearing.
12
City Council Meeting - January 8, 2007
At the meeting the Planning Commission voted 7-0 to recommend adoption of the ordinances
adopting, or I'm sorry, amending Chapters 1, 7, 13, 18, 19 and 20 in the city code. Since the
Planning Commission meeting two major issues have been, I'll say sticking points and brought
up into question. Discussions with staff. Those two issues are the definition of impervious
surface as proposed, as well as wetland classifications for the buffers and setbacks. In the
interest of time I'd like to focus on those two items. I can certainly provide council with a
summary of the other changes if you'd like but I'd like to focus...
Mayor Furlong: Please do.
Lori Haak: Okay. I'm trying to present, it's a lot of information and trying to get it in a way that
makes sense. Logical so if! lose you at any point... This first table I handed out to the council
ahead of the council meeting and it's basically aligns the existing wetland classification system.
Currently there are three classes of wetlands under the system. Those are pristine, natural and
agricultural/urban, and those each have different setback and buffer requirements. There is a
fourth classification of water body but it really only applies to non-wetland systems so I left it off
of this chart. The predominant number of wetlands within the city, 69% are currently
agricultural/urban wetlands. They are required to have a 16.5 foot buffer or basically an area of
vegetation that stands between the wetland and the upland area. A lawn or a parking lot or
whatever, that would provide some water quality and habitat benefit for that wetland. In addition
there's a 40 foot required setback from these wetlands. Under the proposed classifications
system there are four different classifications, including preserve, manage 1, manage 2, manage
3. And this classifications, I'm sorry. I need to back up just a little bit. The first classification
system was developed actually by the city's consultants in conjunction with it's 1994 Surface
Water Management Plan, so now the state reviewed, pure reviewed classification method. It was
something that we developed because we were on kind of the cutting edge of wetland
classification at that time. Since then the State of Minnesota and several other states have
developed classification systems and that's what these classifications are based on. It's a suite of
about 100 or 150 clusters per wetland that the trained representatives, ... consultants go out and
answer those questions for wetlands, so this is a much more defensible way to classify those
wetlands. But as you can see a majority of the wetlands in Chanhassen fall into the manage 2
category. That's just over half of 55%. The buffer that is currently being recommended by staff
is 25 feet, and keeping all of the setbacks the same. That's 40 feet for the manage 1, 2 and 3 and
50 for those high quality preserve wetlands. Now, in comparing the highest quality wetland
there's a fairly significant increase of those wetlands which would have the highest level of
protection. 1 % here to 8% proposed. Just wanted to give the council an idea of where those
wetlands are located, and the colors are difficult to pick up. In the first classification system the
Assumption Creek Seminary Fen wetland complex down in the southern part ofChanhassen,
which is basically divided by 212 and bordered on the north side roughly by the Hennepin Light
Rail Trail Corridor was the only preserve, or pristine wetland. Now to that number has been
added a number of lake shore type wetlands or shoreland wetlands so there's several around Lake
Minnewashta. Several around Lotus Lake, and those are the additions to that highest and best
wetland classification. So just by way of an additional example. This is how staff reviews the
setbacks with regard to proposed houses and structures. The area I'm shading in here currently is
the primary structure with an attached deck, and under current ordinance and proposed ordinance
those structures would be required to be out, at least 40 feet from the edge of the wetland buffer,
13
City Council Meeting - January 8, 2007
and for a manage 3 wetland, that buffer would be 20 feet in width. So you're net setback from
the wetland would be 60 feet. I should also note at this time that this would only apply to lots
newly created after this ordinance is codified. It would not be retroactive to existing homes.
Those would be allowed to maintain the setbacks that were approved with those subdivisions.
To give the council an idea of where that fits with respect to other communities, we've got 13
communities here. I've listed the setback that's required. The low end of the buffer requirement.
The high end of the buffer requirements, and then the total distance from the edge of the wetland
to structure. The most common value for setback is actually O. I was surprised to see that
because we found that setback actually does provide a function in providing people with useable
area outside of that buffer zone, and the setback does provide some limited water quality benefits
as well, which is shy staff is recommending we remain with our current 40 foot setback. The
most common width for the low end of the buffer is 20 with most communities implementing
that, and the high end, the most common value is 50 feet. And the range goes from 50 to 100.
So I think we're close in there. So the setback undoubtedly is higher than any of the other
communities but that's how Chanhassen has been implementing for a number of years and I
believe that it provides the residents with a good useable space in their rear yard... With that I'd
also like to discuss a little bit about the proposed impervious surface definition. We did receive a
comment letter from Matt Goldstein with Lenard Corporation and he did raise this issue to the
staffs attention. I've spoken with Mr. Goldstein on previous occasions regarding the impervious
surface definition and whether or not that could be modified to include some additional
technologies that are now available, including pervious asphalt. Pervious pavers. Pervious paver
blocks, and those sorts of technologies. And we discussed this among city staff and really there
are a large number of unknowns with those technologies. The installation can vary widely from
one firm to another and the efficiency in all those surfaces as actually pervious surfaces can vary
based on installation and the actual technology that's proposed, so that's why the impervious
surface definition is currently in place right now. It's something that has been implemented by
staff in that manner in the past, and that's why that is proposed as it was written in the second
plan.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I'm sorry Lori, the problem Lori with installation. . . ?
Lori Haak: Yes. It's installation. It is, I think that goes with that.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sorry.
Lori Haak: Oh, also the other one is the replacement of those surfaces with other surfaces. For
example if I owned a property in Chanhassen and put in a pervious paver system and then
decided, sold my house and the next owner decided they wanted to replace that with a driveway.
They would not be required to obtain a permit for that, and that put them over that 25%
impervious surface limit, so that's, there's really no check and no control there so that's why that
is an issue. And then again association of some sort of credit. Giving them merit quantities or
something like that is difficult and we didn't find any examples of communities that have been
successful in that so we might, it might just be that we're a little before time. Certainly staff will
continue to look for that because it is something that comes up on a regular basis, but at this time
we just can't think of a good way to do it. So with that staff recommends that the City Council
adopt the following motions that are stated in your staff report. The first would be adopting the
14
City Council Meeting - January 8, 2007
ordinance amending those chapters, and the second would be approving the summary ordinances
for Chapters 1, 18, 19 and 20, and I will advise the council that that does require a 4/5 vote. And
at this time I'd be happy to address any questions you may have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Questions for staff. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: One question. Can you tell me what the problem with installation was
specifically that you were referring to?
Lori Haak: Sure. We haven't had a large number of those installed but compaction under those
surfaces and getting the correct soil mixtures. It's the same problem that we had, that other
communities experienced with things like rain gardens. Just getting those soils too compacted so
it's actually as an impervious surface underneath.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions?
Councilman Peterson: Mr. Mayor I've got a lot of questions. More philosophical and more
specific. That may not be appropriate for tonight. My thought is I'd like to potentially table it
and bring it back to a work session to have some dialogue between all of us and staff. At least
my humble perspective.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other thoughts, comments or questions.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think this is a big step in selecting because if people need more time
to kind of jump into it and feel comfortable with what's being said and... feel comfortable also
tabling it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So bring it to a work session and get some questions back to staff and
get some questions answered. Okay. Alright, any other thoughts or discussions? I mean I'm
comfortable with that. We're making a lot of changes and they're important changes to consider.
It's the extension of our storm water management plan but at the same time there are effects and
taking a little bit of time to make sure we walk, that we understand it. There's no question that
what staff is proposing, that there's any questions of the quality of work that staff is doing but I
want to make sure that we understand it as well, so I'd certainly be open to that. What I would
like to do, if we can, is have the discussion as quickly as possible while it's fresh in our minds. I
don't know if there's time at next, Mr. Gerhardt maybe you and I can look at the schedule for
work session items. See if we can get it back as quickly as possible while it's fresh, and then
move forward since we do want to move forward with our storm water management plan.
Councilman Peterson: Motion to table.
Mayor Furlong: Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
15
City Council Meeting - January 8, 2007
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
table action on the amendments to city code Chapters 1, 7, 13, 18, 19 and 20 as a result of
the adoption of the Second Generation Surface Water Management Plan. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to O.
Mayor Furlong: Good, thank you. We'll get that back as soon as we can. That completes our
items of new business.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
Councilman Peterson: Mr. Mayor, a couple things. With regard to two of my ancillary
meetings, Southwest Metro is in the middle of kind of the beginning of discussions with TAB,
Transportation Advisory Board, which I'm also a member of, talking about transit moving
outside of the transit taxing district which Chanhassen, Chaska and Eden Prairie are a part of and
that will be discussed over the next month and that really means that we're going to figure out
how to, try to figure out how to address potentially bringing in Carver, Victoria, and potentially
Waconia into our service. And then similar counties and similar jurisdictions of ourselves are
addressing that issue as the demand for transit expands so that will be something I'll be updating
you on over the next 30 to 60 days so, and I think everybody else is aware of where we're at with
the 101 site with Southwest Metro and where we're at with the Dinner Theater site too, so there's
a lot going on right now with that, you know and I'll do my best to update you as the need arises.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other council presentations or comments?
Councilman Litsey: I just wanted to thank again, there's a letter of mine in the packet about the
orientation session for new council members and it was really well done. I want to thank City
Manager Todd Gerhardt and staff for putting that together and it was very informative and I hope
that we continue to do that in the future. I think that was the first time that had been done in that
manner anyway and I found extremely helpful as a new council member, so thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Good, thank you. Had an opportunity, received a phone call a couple days
before Christmas from Senator Norm Coleman's office to host a breakfast here in Chanhassen for
him and some of my peers from around the area and it was a quick turn around. They suggested
January 3 from 8:00 to 9:00. I asked what the flexibility was. They said none and we made it
work so. Wanted to thank Todd and Laurie too for working with us, but on that Wednesday
morning, January 3rd we met over at Millie's Deli for breakfast and coffee with the Senator.
Talked about some local and national and international issues. We had about, a number of
mayors from Carver and Hennepin County joined us as well so. Last year Senator Coleman
visited each of the 87 counties in the state of Minnesota and his goal is to do the same thing this
year and he wanted to start out in Chanhassen and in Carver County so that was an honor for us
to do that and enjoyed the breakfast.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
16