CC Minutes 1-22-07
City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Mayor Furlong: Trying to catch up to the rest of the council here. Made and seconded. Any
discussion?
Resolution #2007-08: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded
that the City Council order the 2007 Rehabilitation Project 07-02 and authorize the
preparation of plans and specifications. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
ST
THE ARBORS, LOTS 1 AND 2, BLOCK 1, ZIMMERMAN FARM 1 ADDITION (7537
AND 7570 DOGWOOD ROAD); APPLICANT CARLSON CUSTOM HOMES, INC.;
PLANNING CASE 07-01: REQUEST FOR REZONING FROM RR, RURAL
RESIDENTIAL TO RSF, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL; COMPREHENSIVE
LAND USE MAP AMENDMENT FROM RESIDENTIAL LARGE LOT TO
RESIDENTIAL LOW DENSITY; SUBDIVISION OF 20 ACRES INTO 22 LOTS AND 3
OUTLOTS.
Public Present:
Name Address
th
Donald Peterson 15725 15 Place No., Plymouth
Bruce Carlson 1440 Bavarian Shores Drive, Chaska
Deanna Brandt 7570 Dogwood Road, Excelsior
Marjorie Getsch 7530 Dogwood Road, Excelsior
John & Adella Getsch 7500 Dogwood Road, Excelsior
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor. As you indicated, the applicant Carlson Custom Homes and
Peter and Dee Brandt are requesting three actions tonight. One is for a land use amendment.
The other is a rezoning and the third action is a subdivision. This subject site is located, access
via…41, off of Dogwood. There are two existing homes on the site. The current zoning on the
property is… So this would be the Westwood Church…I'm not showing you 41 so the
continuation of the road would just…and then the Dogwood Road access. Also wanted to tie
that…comprehensive plan. This property is guided, part of it is guided for low density and part
of it is guided for large lot. In the staff report, the section that deals with the land use
amendment, which is on page 4. In 2000 the staff updated the comprehensive plan…zoning
ordinance is required. In this circumstance, because there was no utilities to the subject site, the
Planning Commission felt at that time not to proceed with that… As also noted in the, back on
the project, that in order for this project to go through there needs to be a sewer and water up
there to Dogwood Road which is being pursued with the engineering project, so this project…it
will not be final platted unless the sewer and water project for Dogwood Road is approved. So
the two are tied together. With that, when that comes back…there is a road easement on the
northern portion of the plat. When that comes back for final plat, a vacation of the road…
Having said that I want to spend a few minutes going through the…and talk about what
happened at the Planning Commission. …staff report itself, the number of lots, it's 20 acres and
22 lots and 3 outlots. The site itself, as I indicated is bordered by the Arboretum on the south.
There is a substantial…on the site. The existing home. The Brandt home and this existing
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
home. Those were going to stay. Currently access to the property would come off the temporary
cul-de-sac on the Westwood Church property. They did that road as public street and the
intention for that was to provide access to the back of this property at this time. We're also
requesting with this plat utility and drainage easements…provide access, some time in the future
a minimum utility easement to the Crimson Bay Road. That is not being done at this time but in
the future we see that as an opportunity to provide utilities to that area. There's 3 wetlands on the
site, all shown in pink, and then the lakeshore lots, and there are setbacks as required by
ordinance… When this plat was first reviewed at the Planning Commission, some of the lots
regarding the setbacks from the wetlands…making those work better because they'll have
driveways coming around to the rear side, working with the grade of the site so the lot,
subdivision itself is in compliance with… Again the street cross section, which that will be a part
of the discussion later, meets the city's current standards. So then I'd like to go back and talk a
little bit about what happened at the Planning Commission. This item was tabled at the Planning
nd
Commission for a couple different reasons. The first one on January 2, the Arboretum had
some concerns regarding visibility and access to their property. Currently there's an electric
fence that's offset. As noted in the staff report it's 15 to 22 feet off the property. The Arboretum
was concerned about access to the property and for security and the electric fence itself. So with
that we have requested, if you can zoom in on this. We went to the web site of a fixed knot
fence, so that's what you're looking at here. This is a 6 inch grid. The concern that the Planning
Commission had, as well as the staff and the developer was actually the size and height of the
fence. The fence being 8 feet high. The city's ordinance only allows 6 1/2 foot. Obviously
some of the amenities on this lot would be adjacent to the Arboretum itself. If you look at the lot
layout of Lot C, so not all of these lots abut the Arboretum property…so those are the only two
lots that have direct access, and because electrical fence is offset, the Planning Commission and
staff as well as the developer agreed to mark that, that there is an electric fence. Private
property. And also part of the testimony that the folks on Crimson Bay…similar circumstance
with the electric fence along their property line, which also abuts the Arboretum, which would be
typical… That would be this property. Crimson Bay Road, which also abuts the Arboretum…
that they haven't had a problem with that, and that also…. Certainly we want these people to be
respectful of the Arboretum property but we haven't had a nuisance fence issues or spraying
issues…Arboretum as far as that facility. Again as stated in the staff report and then also noted
by the city attorney that agricultural operations are exempt from the nuisance ordinance so
anybody buying there… Then the other issue was the storm water pond itself. The storm water
itself was oversized, that's in this area here to accommodate additional runoff. That was a
ndth
concern. We believe that has been addressed. So after the tabling on January 2…the 16 and
the commission again did recommend approval with the modified conditions in the staff report.
So again…subdivision regulation requirements, attached conditions and they start on page 13.
There's 3 motions. Again one for the land use amendment, one for the rezoning and the other
one would be the third motion would be to address the subdivision regulations. So with that I'd
be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff.
Councilman Peterson: Kate, the only thing that I had that was confusing to me was, there was
some discussion that the Arboretum wanted the developer to replace the fence. Why are we
taking out, why is the fence being taken out in the first place?
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Kate Aanenson: Well, it's 15, as stated in the staff report and you can see in the site plan itself,
it's 15 to 22 feet. Typically we don't have people go onto other people's property. I'm not sure
how that would work. Again for aesthetics we felt that going that 3 foot fence along here…they
could get around it. We'd have to fence more of that.
Councilman Peterson: Okay, so we're not saying replace the, they're saying add another fence?
Not replace the existing electric fence?
Kate Aanenson: Oh I think that was their original intent. To replace, and then probably would
take down the electrical fence…attractive nuisance that that may be. So I think the goal was to
post it private property, because you have enough buffer there, the 15-20 feet and the buyer will
be apprised of that. And again the testimony with Crimson Bay…
Mayor Furlong: I guess just to clarify that if I could. That was a request from the Arboretum,
but the Planning Commission and the staff, this report with the conditions do not require the
developer to put, to do anything with regard to a fence on that property.
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: It is only to put up the signs and notification.
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other questions? Councilman Peterson, anything else at this time?
Councilwoman Tjornhom, questions? Questions?
Councilman Litsey: Just so I'm clear on this fence issue. Once the fence is put in place, is the
electric fence coming down?
Kate Aanenson: No, we're not recommending the additional fence so the electric fence would
stay in place, as it is currently on Crimson Bay Road. The goal is to post it private property and
electrical fence and that would be it.
Councilman Litsey: Are there any alternatives to the electric fence that would be viable?
Kate Aanenson: Well that was, the electrical fence, as stated by the Arboretum was to manage
the deer and that sort of thing because they have experimental things on their property.
Councilman Litsey: Right.
Kate Aanenson: So this was an alternative that was recommended by the DNR, was to use that
type of fence. Again for aesthetic reasons, we don't allow that fence, and they felt that would
be… Would some of those property owners put their own wooden fences up? That may happen
but that's on an individual case by case basis, depending on what they do with their property and
it depends on… Again I think the best testimony is from Crimson Bay…
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Councilman Litsey: They're okay with it.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Councilman Litsey: Yeah. Okay, thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? Ms. Aanenson, a couple. On the, you said that this
project's tied to or contingent upon the street projects for Dogwood. Help me, I couldn't see that.
Is that one of the conditions? I saw it referenced in the findings of fact, but is it specific? Are
any of these specific conditions on that? Or do we just need to do that because I think.
Kate Aanenson: I believe that's…
Councilman Peterson: If you look at page 298, it says no development shall occur on either 5
acre lots until the completion of the feasibility study and plans for the road are determined.
Mayor Furlong: Is that in the staff report or the conditions of the motion?
Councilman Peterson: Staff report. It's not in the.
Kate Aanenson: …and what we're doing tonight is preliminary plat which is…for one year. It
would not come to final plat…
Roger Knutson: If that's a condition, it should be listed as a condition, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then the other question I had with regard to, if we could put up the
map of the site plan. You mentioned extending Dogwood to the, that line to the south. You
mentioned utility easement. Is that also a right-of-way easement that will not be extended at this
time?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so there is a right-of-way and utility easement, both.
Kate Aanenson: ...on the plat.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Yeah, that right there. Just look at where I'm pointing on my screen.
Yep, that's a perfect picture. That section below the elbow. Right where your hand is.
Kate Aanenson: Right through there, correct.
Mayor Furlong: Yep. So preserving right-of-way as well as utility easements through that
section.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct, and it will not be done at this time. That's a future decision.
We're showing how the Brandt property on this portion could be subdivided in the future. It'd
have to come back through the subdivision…
Mayor Furlong: So those 3, on Lot 3, are those part of this preliminary plat?
Kate Aanenson: All this is owned by the Brandt's, so they're showing how this can be
subdivided, which was our request. One of the concerns that we had.
Mayor Furlong: But at this time it's not subdivided?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, because I see the 1, 2, 3 there on Block 3. So is it just Blocks 1 and 2
that are being subdivided at this time?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. And that will show up on the final plat. The preliminary plat
has…when it comes back for final plat. Again he needs to show that Crimson Bay, Crimson Bay
had septic to it and also has a substandard access onto Highway 5, so what we want to do as
planners, as city engineers, our goal is to provide alternatives some time down the road for
additional access to the property. It may be a right-in/right-out only but. Then I also wanted to
mention too that when…land use amendment, while we're changing this lot, these lots, to be
consistent. The rest of Dogwood, it will come back when that project is ordered to make that
also consistent to be low density because right now it's still in large lot. So the only thing that
would still be large lot is going to be the Crimson Bay area. So that's…some of the folks on the
Dogwood Circle, both sewer and water is available and they subdivide, so we changed that to be
consistent too. When that project's ordered, there'll be future access.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions at this time? If not there was a request
for some public comments. At this time I will open up the podium and invite interested parties
to come up and make some public comment. There was a public hearing at the planning
commission I know but certainly please come forward and. If you can start by stating your name
and address for the record.
Deanna Brandt: My name is Deanna Brandt. I'm a co-applicant of the subdivision, along with
my husband Peter and Carlson Custom. Good evening Mr. Mayor and city council members and
city staff. I've been a Dogwood Road resident for over 15 years, owning the property for 18
years. My husband's in Switzerland. He would be talking right now. We've got, can you zoom
into this part here? Okay. This entire piece that you're seeing on your entire map that I gave to
each of you shows the, exactly the same thing that Kate had shown you. The orange road, the
orange solid line shows you the proposed 31 foot wide road that will be an extension of West
th
78 Street, and the dotted orange line, running across here, shows the continuation of the
proposed 31 foot wide road. And as Paul explained it to me, this is the city standard for new
subdivisions. It's, this is the way it is. I understand that. The green area down below is part of
the properties that are not part of, there's land and homes there that are not part of the new
subdivision. The blue line is what we are, we on Dogwood Road would like to see continued as
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
a 24 foot wide road that the Planning Commission, or I mean excuse me, the planners and
engineers have already got Dogwood Road as a 24 foot wide road but all of a sudden when it hits
that magic point right there, because that, because of this land being in the new proposed
subdivision, all of a sudden it goes 31 foot wide. It just balloons up. For the reason that because
half of this, or you know on one side of it is new subdivision and that's following the rules. Well
the other half of it in the green is not new subdivision, so we're trying to maintain, those of us
that live on Dogwood Road, our goal is to maintain the Dogwood Road experience if you will.
It's horrendously skinny in some places and, but we've always been able to pass each other. It's a
pretty long dead end road. We've made due. Ambulances have come up. Fire trucks have come
up. Everybody's come up, and we are widening it to the 24 foot wide road. So now 24 foot wide
is good enough for the rest of Dogwood Road and it's a perfectly functional 24 foot wide that's
already accepted. Why can't the other approximate 550 feet of orange dashed line continue to be
the 24 foot wide road? And then it can change once it takes that sharp perpendicular 90 degree
th
turn into West 78 Street. What we're trying to do is preserve as much as we can. The loads of
mature trees that we have in there, it's just what we're trying to preserve. And for the record,
working with Paul and Alyson and Bob has been phenomenal. Our Dogwood Road family, and
you can call us that because we pretty much are all here. We show up to these things big time.
We are all very appreciative of the work that they have done. It's been nothing short of
exemplary. Really. So whether this goes through or not, we're still happy campers.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Mr. Oehme, comments. Thoughts.
Paul Oehme: Sure…what our standards are. They're typically larger lot developments, larger
homes, larger lots. Typically bigger vehicles pass through. These neighborhoods are owned…
We've had comments that 31 foot wide roads aren't wide enough for some neighborhoods now
but this is our standard that we've adopted. That the council has, can make to change that to
something narrower but under this type of development it's our recommendation to stick with the
31 foot wide road. If granted, we are narrowing the road down on the Dogwood side under the
06-06 project. That's due to the right-of-way constraints that we have out there. But in…with
other street reconstruction projects that we've… In new developments we try to stay to the 31
foot wide road.
Kate Aanenson: I was just going to add to that.
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Kate Aanenson: As Mrs. Brandt…this project's been on and off, on and off so I think we've all
kind of gotten to know the…but I just want to make sure, if you look, the current road right-of-
way, it's a temporary cul-de-sac. And the road is actually moving so with this project we're
trying to work with Westwood. Maybe moving it. We've had numerous meetings trying to find
the right right-of-way but certainly the road width and how it moves affects people's ability to
get, not only preserve trees but additional…public property. But just to be clear again, this is the
31 foot here, and…as it goes past this plat, then it would actually tie back in with the old
Dogwood…
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Councilman Peterson: So on that map Kate, walk me through this. You said 31 but where does
the 24 start and end?
Kate Aanenson: Right at this plat, because you're stretching.
Mayor Furlong: 24 goes north, right?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. So they stretch it from…where the city engineer's trying to retrofit.
Bring utilities down to the existing right-of-way and preserving some of those trees.
Paul Oehme: It wouldn't be an abrupt change. It'd be a 15 to 1 taper so the…30 feet tapering
down to a narrower section.
th
Councilman Peterson: So it starts, when you do 78 it's 31. And that's Dogwood there, right?
Your bend at Dogwood.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. New Dogwood.
Councilman Peterson: The new Dogwood, so it tapers down to 24 there.
Kate Aanenson: Right at the end of that…
Mayor Furlong: One of the questions you said is when you utility services are provided along
Dogwood. There's an opportunity for additional subdivision of the existing properties. How
many homes are currently along the lakeshore there and what's the potential for additional?
Paul Oehme: I believe there's an additional 2 properties along Dogwood that can potentially be
subdivided.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Plus these 3 that we're seeing here?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: Some time in the future, correct.
Mayor Furlong: So, okay. Additional lots. Alright.
John Getsch: Can I make a comment?
Mayor Furlong: Please.
John Getsch: My name is John Getsch and I have property that is, it actually goes right down
here. If you take off this corner, go right towards the lake. One of my concerns with the road
th
narrowing down there is people will come around the corner here on 78, come around here
thinking that this is you know a full width street. Come down that stretch will narrow down
gets…and say okay we need to turn around. Set back in driveways and then turn around and
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
head back up. And the idea was to try and keep this consistent along here with, because this is
all trees coming along narrow, and it would keep that all the way to here and here would be
where it would widen out and with the grading and stuff that's going on here, this is one of the
trees that are going to be gone. So when this area, and part of what the property owners did here.
Carlson…are trying to preserve trees by using the existing…power line route. And trying to
keep it narrow with the trees in there so you have that kind of almost a north woods feeling going
through there. And that's my comment on that we'd like to try and save that. Kept this narrow
as, makes sense and consistent with the rest of Dogwood Road. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other public comment? Thank you for coming up sir. Yes.
Donald Peterson: Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council. My name is Donald Peterson
and I'm here representing Carlson Custom Homes as a project manager. I'll be the manager of
the project and we do not have any issues, but we agree with the recommendations of the staff
and the Planning Commission on all the items that have been discussed so far. We, there are a
couple issues that I'd like to just make you aware of. One of the things is that the
recommendation is that the plat be approved subject to the City Council authorizing the
Dogwood improvement project. We are in total understanding of that. If Dogwood doesn't get
done, and you don't order that project, then we don't have a plat. We've been working with the
staff for just a little over a year now and Bruce has owned that property, Bruce Carlson has
owned that property for almost 8 years. He's tried a couple of times to subdivide. That didn't go
ahead because we didn't have an agreement on Dogwood Road. Now it looks like we've got a
proposal that's going to meet the neighbors needs and meets our needs. Our assessment on this
project is going to be very, very large and we did for that reason reduce the lots, 2 lots from 24
lots to 22 because we wanted, we have to have something that's the best that we can produce.
And so we have reduced our lots down to 22. And these will be you know expensive homes, but
the project is really nice. Those lots are about as nice as we can do. I would ask you then that
you consider moving the plat on. We have to do quite a few things for the final plat. One of
these of course would be having an agreement on Dogwood Road, but we have reviewed staff's
recommendations on it. We have no problems with it. We also do not have a problem if the
owners on Dogwood want to have a 24 foot road all the way from the curve, all the way down.
We can live with that too. The planning staff and the engineering department wants to see this as
31 because it's in a new plat portion, we don't have a problem with that. Either way that you
decide to go on that, we just ask that we, that the plat be considered on the plat and not on the
width of the roadway. We will have to have an agreement on that roadway width before you
approve the final plat in any means. There's one other item that I'd like to point out. This may
be more appropriately addressed at final plat time but I wanted to make you aware of something
that we would request that you consider. Carlson Custom Homes owns a home that's located
right on Lot 4 here. They've owned that for about 8 years and there have been a couple of
proposed for large lot subdivision and now we've come up with this proposal. That existing
house has an existing well and it has an existing septic system which is, it's a mound system
that's located on a portion of Lot 3. Our assessment and city charges on this project are going to
be well over a million dollars and the city staff recommends that we pay those assessments up
front, while the others are paid on a I think a 6 or 8 year payment plan. We ask your
consideration that we be allowed to as soon as the final plat is approved, put this house on the
market in order to generate some cash to pay all these fees, and if you, we would propose that we
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
would do that by putting a temporary easement on Lot 3. This would probably be done at final
plat time so that this home could use the existing septic system until the time that the sewer is
done and we can hook up to the sewer line. If you wanted to place a restriction on the sale of Lot
3 until that was all done, that would be acceptable with us, but we are requesting that when you
get to final plat time that you would consider allowing us to utilize the existing operating septic
system until such time that the city sewer is in and we can hook up to it. We would be happy to
escrow money for the assessments and for the hookup that would be required so that you would
be assured that that would be done. But that would allow us to generate a sizeable amount of
cash to be able to plow into this project to pay all of these fees. I think that's probably, should be
considered at the final plat time but I wanted to make you aware of our request on that. And I'd
be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Peterson? No? Okay, thank you.
Yes. Mrs. Brandt.
Deanna Brandt: Mrs. Brandt again. One last thing I wanted to say in regards to that 24 foot
wide Dogwood Road continuation. There is a signed petition, and I think Alyson's got it in her
folder by every resident on Dogwood Road stating that that's what we want.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Okay. Any other comments from the public? Okay, thank
you everyone. I'll bring it back to council for any additional questions of staff. Yes.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: The 24 foot road, it's probably in my packet and I haven't read it but
did the fire marshal, chief, did they have any comments or an opinion regarding the road size?
Paul Oehme: Yes. I did talk to our Fire Marshal and the 24 foot wide is the narrowest that he'd
recommend, but we've got to understand too, that's the paved surface. There is a shoulder
associated with the…road section there and the proposed current use they have a 12 foot wide
ditch. That ditch section along that roadway so you know narrowing the roadway down to 24
versus a 31, even under this scenario, I was looking at the grades, in terms of tree preservation, I
don't think, in my estimation there's going to be any significant trees that will be salvaged if you
narrow the roadway just based upon the size…this road out there so, that's just a consideration.
Councilman Peterson: Because of the ditch?
Paul Oehme: Because well, because of the ditch and because of just the grades to build a newer
section of Dogwood Road.
Mayor Furlong: So are we looking at curb and gutter along the entire length of Dogwood Road
there?
Paul Oehme: That's another thing too is you know, we are, that is one of the options that we
would be bringing before council at a later date when we have the council consider that
feasibility study. One of the options is to include that curb and gutter. Now if you go with curb
and gutter, that does push the road out to 26 foot wide from face to face, the curb, so but we do
narrow the ditch section, where there's no ditch section…
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Mayor Furlong: So some tree preservation perhaps. It depends on where it is.
Paul Oehme: It depends on where it is and you are cutting into the hill so there are some, there
will be some trees that will be taken down there.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Litsey: So with the widening of the road, it's really taking up shoulder space more or
less, is that what you're saying? That's there now.
Paul Oehme: Right. It's just for grade purposes to build a road to it's current… There is going
to be some grading work out there. There will be some trees, not in the roadway, that will have
to be taken down because of the grades.
Councilman Litsey: And when it narrows and goes north, are there future plans at this point for
that?
Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilman Litsey: How much traffic are we looking at in the future perhaps?
Paul Oehme: Well when the staff took a look at this, this development, we're anticipating
actually less traffic going down Dogwood north of here than there is right now because you've
got an improved section of road here. It's going to be much quicker to get out on a 31 foot wide
road than neck down and…so in terms of traffic you know, it'd probably be less.
Councilman Litsey: I guess I'd be interested in hearing comments from residents about what was
just said in terms of it would have minimal impact on the trees.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah I mean I think, well I was just going to say, there seems to be some
options that have still not been decided with regard to the Dogwood project itself. So maybe the
thing to do is let's, you know we hear this, we're doing preliminary at this point so.
Kate Aanenson: Correct…asking for a variance and I think that's what the developer wants too.
Putting together…so I don't know if you want to give a range on street width. Minimum…
Mayor Furlong: Well I guess, okay.
Roger Knutson: They're asking, if it's below 31 feet they're requesting a variance. Unlike a
zoning variance, it doesn't have to go anywhere but to you for a subdivision variance. What I
was, is there any way you could postpone, puts the developer maybe at a little disadvantage but
postpone the decision on the road width until you have additional information based on the
improvement project?
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Mayor Furlong: That's what I'm hearing probably makes the most sense because as part of that
project there'll also be additional opportunities for the residents to get involved. I mean I'm not,
by asking you to look at it, I don't know that we're necessarily authorizing it. But at the same
time I mean I'm open to other ideas but it seems to me we don't have enough to decide one way
or the other and yet I don't think holding up the entire project based upon the request of the
neighbors is fair to the developer. But we've got you know, the Dogwood project itself is
something that, this can't go forward without the Dogwood project so I think let's find some
answers on the Dogwood project and that may lead us to a direction here.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members, I think we have this on as a work session. The
Dogwood Road project in our first meeting in February and then I don't know where we are on
plans and specs or authorization to do plans and specs and assessment hearing.
Paul Oehme: We're still negotiating some right-of-way issues with some of the…
Mayor Furlong: Okay. I guess my question then for Mr. Knutson would be, if we, if it requires
a variance to narrow the width from 31, can we approve the plan tonight without a variance and
still make that variance at the time of the final plat?
Roger Knutson: Mayor yes, but maybe you just want to note as a condition that the width of,
however you describe this segment. Dogwood north or.
Aanenson: Yeah, the Dogwood segment.
Roger Knutson: The Dogwood segment is reserved to be decided based upon additional
information. Something along those lines so you just, in your approval note that that decision is
yet to be made.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Yeah, let's move to other comments or questions on the rest of
the development. Or on this issue, if somebody wants to make a comment there. Councilwoman
Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I just have one other question. So tonight I've really not heard of any
disadvantages, other than the fact that it doesn't fall within the 31 feet and also the fact that
potentially the fire truck may have some challenges getting down that road, although it doesn't
sound like he's very, he's real concerned about it. Are there any other disadvantages to having it
24 feet versus 31?
Paul Oehme: Well there's no parking that would be allowed in a 24 foot wide road. And 24 foot
wide roads, especially if we're going to have curb and gutter in the paved section, on a new road,
two larger vehicles passing by each other is, it's narrow. It's not.
Councilman Peterson: It's scary.
Mayor Furlong: It's really narrow.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Kate Aanenson: And those lots do have access via Dogwood.
Mayor Furlong: Some of the lots on this development.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Would have, would be on the Dogwood, or at least on this section of Dogwood.
As the existing homes on the west side. Other questions or comments on the development in it's
entirety? Councilwoman Tjornhom, thoughts.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think the Planning Commission kind of sifted through all those big
clumps of clutter that we don't have to do tonight as regards to the electric fence. I don't think
I've ever dealt with anything like that where there is an electric fence bordering someone's back
yard and how do you handle that? You know I still am a little leery about that but I guess I've
got to just have faith that a sign is going to make everyone happy for the next 100 years. When
it's sold and re-sold but the Arboretum is a great asset to our community and I think that you
know, it's a win-win for everybody.
Donald Peterson: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes. Mr. Peterson.
Donald Peterson: If I could clarify something regarding that fence. The Planning Commission
recommended that we make a disclosure to any buyer that would come in. We will have a
mandatory owners association because we have 3 outlots that we have to maintain, etc so we will
have an owners association. Now we have agreed that we will make a full disclosure that there
is an electric fence beyond their property line. We will also allow our residents, if they choose,
to fence their back yard. They can do that so we will have a disclosure in all our advertising
material. We'll have a disclosure in our homeowners documents that states there is, the present
operation is an apple orchard. That they do use insecticides and…signs down there and
according to the Planning Commission recommendations stating the electric fence be on so
people will be well aware of what's there. If they choose to fence in their back yard, we will
provide ornamental recommendations so that we get a nice looking fence. And we have no right
or obligation we feel to build a fence or to object to a fence on their property. If the Arboretum
chooses to build a fence, there's nothing we can do about it. We're happy with what we've got,
but if they choose to build a fence, that's their right. According to city recommendations so if
that point clarifies.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No…can live in harmony. Especially those people who have the
deer in their back yard that want to get over. I think it's going to be a great development. I think
it's a good asset to our community. It's a long time coming. I think there's been a lot of long
meetings and a lot of long nights with the whole thing and I feel bad about the road. It doesn't
sound like there's a lot of hope for saving trees and I've been down that road. It's beautiful and
you kind of feel like you are going up to your cabin, even though you're not, so I wish you the
best of luck with the trees but other than that, I don't think I have any other comments.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments.
Councilman Litsey: Just echo the same thing. It looks like a good project overall. I don't know
all the history behind it because I'm new to the council but it looks like you've come up with a
real good project and I do have a comfort level now with those items that have to be disclosed so
I'm glad those were put in there so, if we can deal with the road issue, and I'll make a point of
looking at it. I guess I'm comfortable with moving forward with the development proposed but
separating out the road issue.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other thoughts.
Councilman Peterson: You know I've sat through most of those meetings in different versions of
this and I'm proud to say I like this one the best. I think this has got the highest probability of
success obviously so, you know with regard to the road, I think a lot of where I would come
from in the road is what are the probabilities of the north really being redeveloped and kind of
redone also? I mean I don't like the idea of going from 31 to 24 with no aspect of 24, whatever
we get higher, you know then I think it’s a waste. But so that's where I think staff, I'd like to
hear what the probability of that, if it's still 24, going to a more safer road. You don't want to
drive on a 24 foot road with a car coming.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Or a garbage truck.
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, you wouldn't. You couldn't then, but so other than that I think it's a
great project and let's move ahead.
Mayor Furlong: Okay thank you. I think no reason to take a lot of time. It's a good project.
There's been a lot of thought put into it and I know that there's been a lot of work, and especially
cooperation with the developer and with residents along Dogwood and I thank everybody for all
their time and effort. And I think ultimately this is going to be a good project and I think that the
city project of upgrading Dogwood Road is going to be an asset, not only for the public but for
the residents along the road and I'm very pleased that we're moving forward with that. There's
been as much cooperation as there is so, I think this is, I think we should move forward. If there
are other comments, be happy to take them. Otherwise I think the motion begins on page 13 of
the staff report. 307 on the PDF and the only two things that I heard, and maybe there was a
third, is that we should make all 3 motions, or my recommendation would be all 3 motions
would be contingent upon the what? Authorization or.
Kate Aanenson: …staff report.
Mayor Furlong: Is it in the report or in the conditions?
Kate Aanenson: In the conditions of approval. It's under…and the reason why you didn't see it.
Councilman Peterson: 06-06.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Kate Aanenson: It's 6(g). Preliminary plat approval contingent upon. It should be final plat
shall be contingent upon approval of the construction project 06-06, which is the sewer and water
project.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so just the preliminary plat? None of the.
Kate Aanenson: The final plat…so (g) says final plat is contingent upon.
Mayor Furlong: (g) should be final, and it's only with regard to that motion that it's required?
Kate Aanenson: For the subdivision.
Mayor Furlong: For the subdivision.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: The rezoning are fine?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Don't need to be contingent upon that?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Well we wouldn't go forward with the rezoning until…
Roger Knutson: That's already spelled out. The zoning is tabled until the plat comes back.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: And then just.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so we're good on that. And the other one is just to add a condition.
Kate Aanenson: Reserving Dogwood right-of-way.
Mayor Furlong: The final with the Dogwood will be determined at the final plat?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: And which condition do you want that to be Kate?
Kate Aanenson: If you want to make it number 10.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. With that is there a motion?
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, what he said.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
Mayor Furlong: Probably not good enough for Mr. Knutson over there. Yeah what he said if
we attach the findings of fact, right? Then it's okay?
Roger Knutson: Now you stole my thunder.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, alright. We've got motions A, B and C in the staff report. (g), item
what is it? 6(g) has been amended to say final plat versus preliminary. Strike the word.
Condition number 10. The final width of Dogwood Road will be determined at final plat, is that
sufficient? Can somebody say so moved?
Councilman Peterson: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Second. Any questions on the motion? We'll deal with all 3 motions in a single
motion without objection. Seeing that, any discussion?
Resolution #2007-09: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that
the City Council approve Comprehensive Land Use Map Amendment from Residential-
Large Lot to Residential-Low Density for Lots 1 through 3, Block 3 of the preliminary plat
of The Arbors contingent upon Metropolitan Council review. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City Council approve
the Rezoning from RR, Rural Residential to RSF, Single Family Residential for the land
within the plat of The Arbors subject to final plat approval for The Arbors. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City Council approve
the preliminary plat for the Arbors creating , plans
22 lots, 3 outlots and public right-of-way
prepared by Otto Associates, dated October 31, 2006, subject to the following conditions:
1.The house designs, locations and driveway configurations for Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, must be
revised to maintain the required wetland setback.
2.Full park fees in lieu of parkland dedication and/or trail construction shall be collected as a
condition of approval for The Arbors. The park fees shall be collected in full at the rate in force
upon final plat submission and approval.
3.Fire Marshal’s Conditions:
a.A 10-foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e., street lamps, trees,
shrubs, bushes, Xcel Energy, Qwest, cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to
Chanhassen City Ordinance #9-1.
b.Fire apparatus access roads and water supply for fire protection is required to be installed.
Such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to and during the time of
construction except when approved alternate methods of protection are provided.
c.Temporary street signs shall be installed at street intersections once construction of the
new roadway allows passage of vehicles. Pursuant to 2002 Minnesota Fire Code Section
501.4.
d.Fire apparatus access roads shall be designed and maintained to support the imposed load
of fire apparatus and shall be serviced so as to provide all-weather driving capabilities.
Pursuant to Minnesota State Fire Code Section 503.2.3.
e.Submit proposed cul-de-sac name to Chanhassen Building Official and Chanhassen Fire
Marshal for review and approval.
f.No burning permits shall be issued for trees to be removed. Trees and shrubs must either
be removed from site or chipped.
4.Building Official Conditions:
a.A final grading plan and soils report must be submitted to the Inspections Division before
building permits will be issued.
b.Demolition permits must be obtained prior to demolishing any structures on the site.
c.Existing wells and on-site sewage treatment systems on the site must be abandoned in
accordance with State Law and City Code.
d.The developer must submit a list of proposed street names for review and approval prior
to final plat of the property.
e.Retaining walls more than four feet high must be designed by a professional engineer and
a building permit must be obtained prior to construction.
f.Separate sewer and water services must be provided each lot.
5.City Forester’s Conditions:
a.Tree preservation fence shall be installed at the edge of the grading limits prior to any
construction. Fencing shall be in place and maintained until all construction is
completed.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
b.Any trees removed in excess of proposed tree preservation plans, dated 10/31/06, will be
replaced at a ratio of 2:1 diameter inches.
c.A minimum of two trees shall be planted on each lot.
d.Tree conservation easements on Lots 5, 8, and 9, Block 1 shall be enlarged beyond what
is shown on plans dated 10/31/06.
e.Tree conservation easements shall be located on Lots 1-3, 5, 8-9, Block 1.
f.The applicant shall replace Colorado spruce shown on landscape plan with concolor fir or
Norway spruce.
6.City Engineer’s Conditions:
a.In order to meet the 10% maximum allowable driveway grade on Lots 1 through 3, Block
1, the builder may have to put steps in the garage to accommodate the grade change.
b.The dead pool volume of the pond needs to be increased by 360 cubic feet to meet the
MPCA Phase II requirements.
c.The proposed 1036 foot contour on Lots 12 and 14, Block 1 must be shifted so that the
backyard grade is minimum 2%.
d.The proposed major contours must be a different line weight or type.
e.Based on the grading plan, the home on Lot 5, Block 1 will be a walkout, not a full
basement.
f.The top and bottom of wall elevations of the wall must be shown on the grading plan.
g.Final plat approval shall be contingent upon the approval and construction of Project 06-
06.
h.Watermain must be minimum 18 inches above or below the sanitary sewer.
i.Access for Lots 2 and 3, Block 3 will be addressed and constructed when those lots are
final platted.
j.An encroachment agreement is required for the gravel drive and turnaround within the
th
Dogwood Road right of way south of West 78 Street.
7.Water Resources Coordinator’s Conditions:
a.The applicant shall classify Wetland 2 using the results from the Minnesota Routine
Assessment Method for Evaluating Wetland Functions (MnRAM Version 3.0). An
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
electronic version of the completed MnRAM evaluation shall be submitted to and
approved by the city to establish the classification of Wetland 2 so the appropriate
wetland buffer and setback requirements can be determined.
b.A wetland buffer 50 in width and a 50 foot setback from the wetland buffer must be
maintained around Wetland 1. Wetland buffer areas shall be preserved, surveyed and
staked in accordance with the City’s wetland ordinance. The applicant must install
wetland buffer edge signs, under the direction of City staff, before construction begins
and must pay the City $20 per sign. Wetland buffer and setback requirements for
Wetland 2 are contingent upon review and approval of the MnRAM for that wetland.
c.The proposed driveways and structures on Lots 1 and 2, Block 1 appear to be within the
wetland setback for Wetland 2. The applicant shall submit house plans that will meet the
required setbacks on Lots 1 and 2, Block 1.
d.The proposed conservation easement shall be revised to envelop Wetland 2 and the
required wetland buffer.
e.A NPDES Phase II Construction Site Storm Water Permit will be required from the
Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (MPCA) for this site. A Storm Water Pollution
Prevention Plan (SWPPP) will be required in conjunction with this application. The
SWPPP shall be provided to the City so it can be reviewed by the Carver Soil and Water
Conservation District prior to the preconstruction meeting for the project.
f.The proposed storm water pond shall be constructed prior to disturbing upgradient areas
and used as a temporary sediment basin during mass grading. Diversion berms/ditches
may be needed to divert water to the pond and a temporary pond outlet shall be provided.
The outlet could be a temporary perforated standpipe and rock cone. The plans shall be
revised to include a detail for the temporary pond outlet.
g.It shall be noted on the SWPPP that all areas that will not be permanently stabilized
within the timeframe required by the NPDES permit shall be temporary mulched and
seeded. A note shall be included in the dewatering section of the SWPPP that states: “If
construction of the proposed temporary/permanent sediment pond is not completed prior
to dewatering, the City’s on-site construction observer must approve proposed
dewatering methods prior to beginning dewatering.”
h.The plans shall be revised to incorporate Chanhassen’s standard details for erosion and
sediment control, including 5302A and 5302D. Proposed erosion and sediment controls
for individual lots shall include perimeter controls (silt fence), rock driveways, street
sweeping, inlet control and temporary mulch after final grade and prior to issuing the
Certificate of Occupancy.
i.The applicant shall provide erosion and sediment control along the south and east
property lines to prevent discharge of sediment onto adjacent properties.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
j.All silt fence that is not laid parallel to the contours shall have J Hooks installed every 50
-75 feet. This shall be noted on the plans and discussed at the preconstruction meeting.
k.Energy dissipation shall be provided at the inlet to the proposed pond and at the end of
the discharge pipe that outlets to the wetland within 24 hours of pipe installation. The
discharge location for the outlet of the proposed pond shall be evaluated to ensure that
the proposed discharge will not cause erosion issues. Reinforced erosion control matting
may be required.
l.A stable emergency overflow (EOF) for the stormwater pond shall be provided. The
EOF could consist of riprap and geotextile fabric or a turf reinforcement mat (a
permanent erosion control blanket). A typical detail shall be included in the plan. The
overland route from the EOF to Lake Minnewashta shall be shown on the plans and shall
be encumbered by a drainage and utility easement.
m.Erosion control blanket shall be installed on all slopes greater than or equal to 3:1. All
exposed soil areas shall have temporary erosion protection or permanent cover year
round, according to the following table of slopes and time frames:
Type of Slope Time (Maximum time an area can
Steeper than 3:1 7 days remain open when the area
10:1 to 3:1 14 days is not actively being worked.)
Flatter than 10:1 21 days
n.These areas include constructed storm water management pond side slopes, and any
exposed soil areas with a positive slope to a storm water conveyance system, such as a
curb and gutter system, storm sewer inlet, temporary or permanent drainage ditch or
other natural or man made systems that discharge to a surface water.
o.Inlet protection may be needed prior to installation of the castings for the curbside catch
basins. In that case, all storm sewer inlets shall be protected by at least fabric draped
over the manhole with a steel plate holding the fabric in place.
p.The plans shall be revised to show a rock construction entrance (minimum 75 feet in
length) wherever construction traffic will access the site. The rock construction entrance
shall be constructed in accordance with Chanhassen’s Standard Detail 5301. Street
cleaning of soil tracked onto public streets shall include daily street scraping and street
sweeping as needed.
q.At this time, the estimated total SWMP fee, due payable to the City at the time of final
plat recording, is $74,570.50.
r.The applicant shall apply for and obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies
(e.g., Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
(for dewatering)) and comply with their conditions of approval.
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City Council Meeting - January 22, 2007
8. The developer shall provide in both their sales material and within the association covenants
full disclosure about the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum location, use of electric fence,
research operations, and agricultural operations including the spraying of trees.
9. The developer shall install signage on Lots 4 and 5, Block 2, and Outlots B and C warning of
the electrical fence on the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum property.”
10. The Dogwood Road roadway width shall be determined with the Final Plat.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
FOX HILL, 6570 CHANHASSEN ROAD, APPLICANT, 10 SPRING HOMES, INC.:
REQUEST FOR SUBDIVISION OF PROPERTY INTO THREE (3) SINGLE FAMILY
LOTS WITH VARIANCES.
Public Present:
Name Address
Sheryl Deppa 4920 Sparrow Road, Minnetonka
Charles R. & Mary Klingelhutz 6570 Chanhassen Road
nd
Scott Rosenlund 622 West 82 Street, Chaska
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the council. This is a little less complex
subdivision in the fact that it's 3 lots, although there's two actions required. One is a variance for
a private street…and the subdivision itself. The subject site is located on 101, just south of Fox
Hollow Drive. The council recently approved a subdivision…6 lots so this is, there's an existing
home on the property right now. The same applicant is doing both projects. And just again to
pass onto you the zoning in the area. The surrounding property actually is a PUD. The most
recent Fox Den was given an RSF which does traditional single family lots so, as did this subject
site. I just want to point that out because some of these lots actually behind are actually a little
bit smaller in the PUD… Again, all of this area is guided low density, which all of the lots
considered to meet the standard. So with the existing home on the site the applicant has to
demonstrate that through the current ordinances you could get 3 lots, so this subdivision meets
city ordinances with a public street. Fox Court. In reviewing this the staff felt that an increased,
by putting a public street to handle those 3 lots, it increased the hard surface coverage and there
were significantly more trees loss and because the cul-de-sac, such a short cul-de-sac would not
provide access to…there might be a more efficient way to serve…this home currently has it's
driveway on 101…again not the best layout. So in working with the applicant, we did want to
make desired from the staff perspective, alternative… The one issue that was addressed at the
Planning Commission and the staff also addressed is…that large lot, basically an acre and a half.
As pointed out in the staff report, if you take some of the hard surface, that area that's common,
so the area that's common, driveway starts here. Again providing a back up here. The Planning
Commission challenged staff if this is the best way to subdivide…private street, and what we've
learned with a private street, it provides enough width and enough back up area so you're not
backing into someone's private driveway so this is the common portion of the driveway… That's
34